From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 3 11:36:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2329E37B401 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from slackwit.com (static37.dsl.compuage.net [63.151.205.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB4343E75 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:36:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@slackwit.com) Received: by slackwit.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9FF8318CB2; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:36:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:36:11 -0500 From: Kelly Hendrix To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021103193611.GA9088@www.slackwit.com> Reply-To: Kelly Hendrix References: <20021103024322.GA6304@www.slackwit.com> <00ba01c282fe$4614fd80$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00ba01c282fe$4614fd80$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23.1i X-Freebsd-Version: FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Being a male over the age of 13 with a pulse, of course I understand the connotation of "Jugs" as a name. Interesting but pointless side note: During WWII, the P-47 Thunderbolt, a fighter plane with an air cooled engine, was known as "The Jug". British pilot and support personnel thought the name was short for "Juggernaut" since it was a very robust and lethal aircraft. In reality, it was called "The Jug" because of the way the body of the airplane looked when it came off the assembly line and was stacked on its nose waiting for the next step in the manufacturing process, which of course, was like a milk jug. So, if you will, "The Jug" :) On Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 12:00:11AM -0600, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly Hendrix" > To: "Julian Elischer" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 8:43 PM > Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? > > > > I'm thinking "Jugs", short for juggernaut of course. > > > > Kelly > > > > Hmmmmm.... rhymes with bedbugs, bugs, chugs, > debugs, drugs, dugs, earplugs, firebugs, fireplugs, > hugs, humbugs, lugs, mugs, plugs, pugs, rugs, > shrugs, slugs, thugs, tugs, unplugs..... > > In my mind that's 13 potential negative associations, > 2 potential positive associations, and 3 or more > 'questionable' associations, not to mention, the > average Joe-on-the-street, in the USA, at least, > will not have "juggernaut" as the first possible > association for "Jugs". > > I think I'd reconsider that one .... :-) > > Kevin Kinsey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 3 12: 5:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9FC37B401 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11CF43E6E for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:05:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.226.82] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id A0FA559006A; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 14:03:06 -0600 Message-ID: <000b01c28373$e70298e0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: Cc: "Kelly Hendrix" References: <20021103024322.GA6304@www.slackwit.com> <00ba01c282fe$4614fd80$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <20021103193611.GA9088@www.slackwit.com> Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:02:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Kelly... Since this is on -chat, I hope you understand that my post regarding 'jugs' was a joke, meant to be humorous, and not a flame or rant that should be taken personally. I'm taking yours the same way, of course. On the subject of the P-47, the thing was quite a "Jug", with enough firepower to do lots of damage, and enough reinforcement in the fuselage that it was harder than most to destroy. With that in mind, maybe it would be suitable to compare it to FBSD. And, while we're on that subject, maybe we should merge this we another thread and change the 'daemon' logo to that of a WWII fighter plane ;-) Loving FBSD whatever it's called or depicted as, Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hendrix" To: Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:36 PM Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? > Being a male over the age of 13 with a pulse, of course I understand the > connotation of "Jugs" as a name. Interesting but pointless side note: > During WWII, the P-47 Thunderbolt, a fighter plane with an air cooled > engine, was known as "The Jug". British pilot and support personnel > thought the name was short for "Juggernaut" since it was a very robust > and lethal aircraft. In reality, it was called "The Jug" because of the > way the body of the airplane looked when it came off the assembly line > and was stacked on its nose waiting for the next step in the > manufacturing process, which of course, was like a milk jug. So, if you > will, "The Jug" :) > > On Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 12:00:11AM -0600, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kelly Hendrix" > > To: "Julian Elischer" > > Cc: > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 8:43 PM > > Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? > > > > > > > I'm thinking "Jugs", short for juggernaut of course. > > > > > > Kelly > > > > > > > Hmmmmm.... rhymes with bedbugs, bugs, chugs, > > debugs, drugs, dugs, earplugs, firebugs, fireplugs, > > hugs, humbugs, lugs, mugs, plugs, pugs, rugs, > > shrugs, slugs, thugs, tugs, unplugs..... > > > > In my mind that's 13 potential negative associations, > > 2 potential positive associations, and 3 or more > > 'questionable' associations, not to mention, the > > average Joe-on-the-street, in the USA, at least, > > will not have "juggernaut" as the first possible > > association for "Jugs". > > > > I think I'd reconsider that one .... :-) > > > > Kevin Kinsey > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 3 12:36: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A55B37B401 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DA5743E8A for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:36:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.226.82] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id A843644006A; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 14:34:11 -0600 Message-ID: <001f01c28378$3b29e230$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: Subject: Fw: -current marcketting name? Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:33:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oops ...s/we/with ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: Cc: "Kelly Hendrix" Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:02 PM Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? > Hi, Kelly... > > Since this is on -chat, I hope you understand that > my post regarding 'jugs' was a joke, meant to be > humorous, and not a flame or rant that should be > taken personally. I'm taking yours the same way, > of course. > > On the subject of the P-47, the thing was quite > a "Jug", with enough firepower to do lots of > damage, and enough reinforcement in the fuselage > that it was harder than most to destroy. With that > in mind, maybe it would be suitable to compare it > to FBSD. > > And, while we're on that subject, maybe we should > merge this we another thread and change the 'daemon' > logo to that of a WWII fighter plane ;-) > > Loving FBSD whatever it's called or depicted as, > > Kevin Kinsey > DaleCo, S.P. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly Hendrix" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:36 PM > Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? > > > > Being a male over the age of 13 with a pulse, of course I > understand the > > connotation of "Jugs" as a name. Interesting but pointless side > note: > > During WWII, the P-47 Thunderbolt, a fighter plane with an air > cooled > > engine, was known as "The Jug". British pilot and support > personnel > > thought the name was short for "Juggernaut" since it was a very > robust > > and lethal aircraft. In reality, it was called "The Jug" because > of the > > way the body of the airplane looked when it came off the assembly > line > > and was stacked on its nose waiting for the next step in the > > manufacturing process, which of course, was like a milk jug. So, > if you > > will, "The Jug" :) > > > > On Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 12:00:11AM -0600, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, > S.P. wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kelly Hendrix" > > > To: "Julian Elischer" > > > Cc: > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 8:43 PM > > > Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? > > > > > > > > > > I'm thinking "Jugs", short for juggernaut of course. > > > > > > > > Kelly > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmm.... rhymes with bedbugs, bugs, chugs, > > > debugs, drugs, dugs, earplugs, firebugs, fireplugs, > > > hugs, humbugs, lugs, mugs, plugs, pugs, rugs, > > > shrugs, slugs, thugs, tugs, unplugs..... > > > > > > In my mind that's 13 potential negative associations, > > > 2 potential positive associations, and 3 or more > > > 'questionable' associations, not to mention, the > > > average Joe-on-the-street, in the USA, at least, > > > will not have "juggernaut" as the first possible > > > association for "Jugs". > > > > > > I think I'd reconsider that one .... :-) > > > > > > Kevin Kinsey > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 3 14:16: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291F837B64F for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail13.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.213]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185CB43E6E for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:16:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 10616 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 22:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail13.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 3 Nov 2002 22:16:10 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (laptop.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.4]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3MFsn5042476; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:15:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:15:55 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Julian Elischer Subject: RE: -current marcketting name? Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 01-Nov-2002 Julian Elischer wrote: > > SO ok, we need a good marketting name for 5.0.. > > Off the top of my head FreeBSD 5.0 "banana" :-) > slug, monkey, heffalump, peach, blender... :-) > > blackjack (It's a gamble) > tahoe, reno amd vegas are gone, but "silver city" is up for grabs :-) > > > p.s. while the names suggested are humourous I am very serious about > needing some name upon which we can hang some hoopla. > > Jaguar.. uh rats... > wolfpack, scout, vanguard.. > I dunno.. 5.0-XP (apologies to peter@) -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 3 16:58:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03D637B401 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:58:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu (adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu [129.105.198.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D6343E42 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:58:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jason@adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu) Received: from adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA42DLNe059953 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:13:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jason@adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu) Received: from localhost (jason@localhost) by adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id gA42DKfK059950 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:13:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:13:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Jason D. Jenkins" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? In-Reply-To: <000b01c28373$e70298e0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> Message-ID: <20021103200443.A59939-100000@adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 5.0 - Ninja ninjas are tight=> http://www.realultimatepower.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 3 17:56: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A014437B401 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:56:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from firehouse.net (dsl-64-130-18-61.telocity.com [64.130.18.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 469A743E7B for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:55:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alan-sender-ea7fb4@clegg.com) Received: (qmail 79191 invoked by uid 85); 4 Nov 2002 01:55:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:55:48 -0500 To: "Jason D. Jenkins" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021104015548.GA78562@shazam.wetworks.org> References: <000b01c28373$e70298e0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <20021103200443.A59939-100000@adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021103200443.A59939-100000@adv2.kellogg.northwestern.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i From: "Alan B. Clegg" X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.52 (Python 2.2 on FreeBSD/i386) X-TMDA-Fingerprint: bItFTx0q4eRx6x8hBBz2sImyHDE X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unless the network is lying to me again, Jason D. Jenkins said:=20 > 5.0 - Ninja >=20 > ninjas are tight=3D> http://www.realultimatepower.net/ And you have Ninja Burgers: =09 http://www.ninjaburger.com You WILL experience the Ninja Burger difference! AlanC --=20 | Alan Clegg | Networks | Security | UNIX | 802.11 |=20 "you just have to be smarter than what you're working on." - Scott Lauren --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9xdOkyJP8xSfQVdsRAlNZAKDDhT40fCeUWUFanACIbXHai6ivVgCZAZRr uwth/qkPkxc12RtzoSskxRk= =0wy7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 3 19:43: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD39F37B401 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA57E43E3B for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:43:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from gray.sea.gr (patr530-b138.otenet.gr [212.205.244.146]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA43gu5p012627; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:42:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from gray.sea.gr (gray [127.0.0.1]) by gray.sea.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA43hHSP005596; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:43:19 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by gray.sea.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA43h1mb005590; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:43:01 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:42:59 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Weston M. Price" , "Kenneth P. Stox" , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: -current marketing name? Message-ID: <20021104034257.GB5444@gray.sea.gr> References: <20021102041745.GE4853@gray.sea.gr> <1036214450.719.23925.camel@stox.sa.enteract.com> <200211021018.23266.wmprice@direcway.com> <3DC444D6.4E144B4@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DC444D6.4E144B4@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-11-02 13:34, Terry Lambert wrote: > "Weston M. Price" wrote: > > > > What about Prometheus? > > "Can we have your liver, then?" Hehehe. Combined with the fact that a search in groups.google.com for "group:*.freebsd.* author:hercules" finds no matches that's even funnier :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 0:28:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944D237B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:28:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ene.asda.gr (ene.asda.gr [193.92.118.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A98B43E3B; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:28:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lefty@ene.asda.gr) Received: from ene.asda.gr (lefty.ene.asda.gr [193.92.118.162]) (authenticated bits=0) by ene.asda.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA48RrIS004198; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:27:59 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lefty@ene.asda.gr) Message-ID: <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:28:31 +0200 From: Lefteris Tsintjelis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Everlund Cc: JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Grow ups or not and as ridiculous as it may sound and probably is, these are both good points and they both could have effect on FreeBSD's popularity, the satan looking symbol and the hostility towards Berkeley. As for the symbol, well, I would expect it to look something more world wide acceptable, neutral, and cute, like Penguin is and not as a "demon". We all know the difference between "daemons" and "demons", however, there are plenty of people that don't and as far as popularity goes compared to Linux, well, popular doesn't necessarily mean a "kitchen sink" linux OS, IF HANDLED RIGHT of course, and I am sure that there isn't anyone here that wouldn't like FreeBSD being popular. After all, I think it deserves a lot more than Linux does and the way these third party linux companies such as RedHat and SuSE are handling it. I am moving this to -chat. It doesn't belong here. Regards, Lefteris Paul Everlund wrote: > > JT32255@aol.com wrote: > > The traditional devil horns derive from goats, which if you have ever been > > around goats, seen how they can climb, eat all vegetation in sight, climb > > trees, get on roofs, etc., how kids gambol, is understandable. But it > > alienates so many. But as it alienates so many Christians, Jews and Muslims > > as a little Satan symbol, really limits the widespread use, public and tax > > paid support and availability of BSD. A better symbol might be the statue of > > liberty, or the creator of the first Library, Aristotle. The Penguin symbol > > is LINUX' best advantage over BSD, not to mention all the public hostility > > towards Berkley. > > Please read http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html. > > And if the little cute daemon alienates Christians, Jews, Muslims or > anyone else, my personal opinion is that they should grow up. > > Take care and I whish you a nice day! > > Best regards, > Paul > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 1:12:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BE537B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 01:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (node-c-07d1.a2000.nl [62.194.7.209]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0327A43E77 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 01:12:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johnaske@mail.com) From: " Mr. John Aske" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:12:44 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: I need your urgent response/call please? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20021104091224.0327A43E77@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org NOTE: PLEASE DIRECT ALL RESPONSE TO EMAIL ACCOUNT CONTAINED IN THIS LETTER FOR CONFIDENTIAL PURPOSE. FROM: Mr. John Aske TEL: +31-627-431-470 E-MAIL: johnaske@spinfinder.com Attention Please, BUSINESS PARTNERSHIP SOLICITED May I take the privilege to introduce myself? My name is John Aske, the farm supervisor and personal assistant to Mr. David Stevens, a very popular and rich farmer from Macheke, Zimbabwe. My master was murdered in cold blood in my presence on 15 of April 2001, due to the land dispute and political situation in my country, as a result of my master's financial support for the MDC (Movement for Democratic Change), the main opposition party to President Mugabe's party, Zimbabwe African National Union Patriotic Front (ZANU-PF). For more information on my master's murder, you may check the Amnesty International Country Report on Zimbabwe for the year 2001. When the pressure on white farmers started in Zimbabwe due to the support given to the war veterans by President Mugabe to invade farms and force out white farmers. My master foresaw the danger ahead, he then closed his major bank accounts, and together, we went to Johannesburg, South Africa to deposit the sum of $15.5 million (Fifteen million, five hundred thousand US dollars), with a discrete Security/Courier Company for safety transportation and safe keeping in Europe. This money was deposited in a box on my name, as my master was being secretive with his name, as the South African government of Thambo Mbeki is in support of President Mugabe's actions. He was also a divorcee and has no family. The box is labelled as activate. He has used this Company in the past to move money for the purchase of tractors and farm equipment from Europe. Now I am currently in the Netherlands where I am seeking political asylum. I am anxiously and humbly seeking for your genuine assistance in helping me to secure and invest this funds/consignment. To show my preparedness and appreciation to conduct this business with you, I shall give you 25% of the total money, 5% for miscellaneous expense and 70% for me. If you have knowledge of farming business in your country, or other areas of possible business investment that I may be interested in, please inform me, so that some of my share of the money can be invested. While, you have also10% on any profit realizable in the process of investment of this fund in your country. Details of how I intend to secure/carry out this project will be related/discussed as soon as I get a response of your willingness and interest. I sincerely will appreciate your urgent acknowledgment as soon as possible by contacting me on my Telephone number: +31-627-431-470 or E-mail address. Yours truly, Mr. John Aske NOTE: YOUR PHONE NUMBER AND FAX NUMBER ARE VERY IMPORTANT, AS BUSINESS OF THIS MAGNITUDE AND NATURE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DONE VIA E-MAIL. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 2:44:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 178B037B404; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:44:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:44:22 -0800 From: Juli Mallett To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: Paul Everlund , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr>; from lefty@ene.asda.gr on Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 10:28:31AM +0200 Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-Alternate-Addresses: , , , , X-Towel: Yes X-LiveJournal: flata, jmallett X-Negacore: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * De: Lefteris Tsintjelis [ Data: 2002-11-04 ] [ Subjecte: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? ] > Grow ups or not and as ridiculous as it may sound and probably is, > these are both good points and they both could have effect on FreeBSD's > popularity, the satan looking symbol and the hostility towards Berkeley. The fact that we have a number of *very* devoutly religious developers who come from religions where there is a figure similar to that which people seem to be alluding to, at least in translated written descriptions and artistic renderings which may or may not have been based on said descriptions, should be a good point, unless someone can believe that said people are actually in service of the devil... If I'm in service of el diablo, I wish someone would tell me... I expect better opportunities for sinning and whatnot! All joking aside, goats are cute, beastie is cute, and I've known a lot of people who went to Berkeley who are, to say the least, cute. It's beyond ridiculous, it's pretentious nonsense! People need to realise that "satan" hasn't shown himself to the world at large even in anecdotal accounts for quite a while, unless you count political commercials... And neither has "god" - you'd think that one way or the other we'd have one of them telling us a thing or two in moderately modern times about, at the least, what the "devil" actually looks like. Frankly, I find it more plausible that you're all manifestations of (my) deranged imagination, than that "the devil" looks even remotely like Beastie. uNF uNF Beastie's cute. Grow up. Images are an illusion, in the written word doubly so. Isn't deciding it'd be fun to read -chat now and then in and of itself fun? Humbug I say. -- Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org http://people.FreeBSD.org/~jmallett/ | Support my FreeBSD hacking! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 5:51:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2D237B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:51:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B0043E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:51:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA4DpUs13350; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:51:30 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gA4DpUc08974; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:51:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA4DpNx08967; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:51:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DC67B54.4040709@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:51:16 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon Cc: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "FreeBSD as a Desktop" heh, heh.... References: <20021101165242.B46031-100000@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Dillon wrote: > The newest NVidia cards work fine with FreeBSD's XFree86 port. I > created a patchset for XFree86 that added support for the newest cards > to the nv driver which was added to the XFree86 port on August 5. > You have to either build XFree86 from the ports, or use > FreeBSD.org-built binaries made after that date. The > XFree86.org-built binaries will not have any improvements incorporated > in them after the day that particular version of XFree86 was released. I'm running 4.7-RELEASE, shouldn't that be new enough? Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 5:52:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35BD637B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:52:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-21.mail.nl.demon.net (post-21.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5099843E4A for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:52:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cls@raggedclown.net) Received: from [212.238.197.102] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post-21.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 188heR-0002vS-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:52:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 128ACE89D for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:52:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from willow.raggedclown.net (willow.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.10]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 95249B94E for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:52:13 +0100 (CET) Received: by willow.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [willow], from userid 1009) id 1E42F22596; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:52:14 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:52:14 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104135214.GA2501@raggedclown.net> References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Guardian Angels, Daemon is not a terrifying devil figure. The perversion of it into "demon" and what that implies was made in the New Testament and in the Talmud. As far as I can gather Moslims are ambivalent about them, since they are regarded as both good and bad. However that is not the same as "daemon", which also has come to be a technical word in the Unix world as well. I think anyone whose religious beliefs get in the way of rationality, and who seriously believes it gives FreeBSD a bad image has a far greater problem to deal with than Signal 11's. Seeing the Daemon logo is hardly likely to turn anyone into a Devil Worshipper is it ? There are some images that would genuinely offend all rational people, a Swastika for example would not get a lot of votes -- but that is part of recent times. (For your interest the Swatika is actually a reversed version of a several thousand year old Tibetan Buddhist image, that has little to do with Nazism ! That is an example of how an image/icon becomes perverted) I get really tired of people who think the world has to always fit in with their beliefs. History, including very recent history, shows where that can lead to. FreeBSD is an O/S, not a nuclear warhead. Getting rid of those is where these people should be spending their energy, not on a harmless image. As a matter of fact the original writer's suggestion that the Statue of Liberty be a suitable image would offend me ! America is not the only place FreeBSD has a presence. It would not stop me using the O/S however. I might write to -chat pointing out the attempts at the restrictions on "liberty" in the IT world that some Americans would like to see and the fact it has a facility to monitor everyone's email. Now that *is* offensive. Maybe FreeBSD, as well as supporting multi-lingualism should support alternative beliefs .. you know a home page for Christians, Druids, etc... where will it end ? I respect people's beliefs, I even have a few of them myself. There are doubtless many devout people who are users of FreeBSD, and while they may find Beastie distasteful they just ignore it. Anyway the only Demons I have ever seen are on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, although admittedly some politicians are in the running....and then there was that bully at my school, and the man who owns the corner shop, and those heavy-metal German rock bands....zzzzzzzzzzzz. -- Regards Cliff [ This email has been checked as virus-free. It may still be full of nonsense however. ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 6:10: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402C637B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:10:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-21.mail.nl.demon.net (post-21.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871FC43E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:10:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cls@raggedclown.net) Received: from [212.238.197.102] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post-21.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 188hvW-0004CI-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:10:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id D2CAAE89D for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:10:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from willow.raggedclown.net (willow.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.10]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id CAC71B94E for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:09:51 +0100 (CET) Received: by willow.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [willow], from userid 1009) id 7EFE122596; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:09:52 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:09:52 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? [A P.S.] Message-ID: <20021104140952.GA2795@raggedclown.net> References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <20021104135214.GA2501@raggedclown.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021104135214.GA2501@raggedclown.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh, btw, if you care to check the full headers on my email messages you may see the name of my ISP. They are voted Number 1 ISP in Holland, year after year .. and also have a powerful presence in the UK. Am I doomed ? -- Regards Cliff Sarginson The Netherlands [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 6:31:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACDA37B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:31:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ene.asda.gr (ene.asda.gr [193.92.118.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E8943E9C; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:31:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lefty@ene.asda.gr) Received: from ene.asda.gr (lefty.ene.asda.gr [193.92.118.162]) (authenticated bits=0) by ene.asda.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4EUTIS040378; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:30:44 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lefty@ene.asda.gr) Message-ID: <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:31:10 +0200 From: Lefteris Tsintjelis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juli Mallett Cc: Paul Everlund , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this question? Regards, Lefteris Juli Mallett wrote: > > * De: Lefteris Tsintjelis [ Data: 2002-11-04 ] > [ Subjecte: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? ] > > Grow ups or not and as ridiculous as it may sound and probably is, > > these are both good points and they both could have effect on FreeBSD's > > popularity, the satan looking symbol and the hostility towards Berkeley. > > As for the symbol, well, I would expect it to look something more world > > wide acceptable, neutral, and cute, like Penguin is and not as a > > "demon". We all know the difference between "daemons" and "demons", > > however, there are plenty of people that don't and as far as popularity > > goes compared to Linux, well, popular doesn't necessarily mean a > > "kitchen sink" linux OS, IF HANDLED RIGHT of course, and I am sure that > > there isn't anyone here that wouldn't like FreeBSD being popular. After > > all, I think it deserves a lot more than Linux does and the way these > > third party linux companies such as RedHat and SuSE are handling it. > > The fact that we have a number of *very* devoutly religious developers > who come from religions where there is a figure similar to that which > people seem to be alluding to, at least in translated written descriptions > and artistic renderings which may or may not have been based on said > descriptions, should be a good point, unless someone can believe that > said people are actually in service of the devil... > > If I'm in service of el diablo, I wish someone would tell me... I expect > better opportunities for sinning and whatnot! > > All joking aside, goats are cute, beastie is cute, and I've known a lot > of people who went to Berkeley who are, to say the least, cute. > > It's beyond ridiculous, it's pretentious nonsense! People need to realise > that "satan" hasn't shown himself to the world at large even in anecdotal > accounts for quite a while, unless you count political commercials... And > neither has "god" - you'd think that one way or the other we'd have one of > them telling us a thing or two in moderately modern times about, at the least, > what the "devil" actually looks like. > > Frankly, I find it more plausible that you're all manifestations of (my) > deranged imagination, than that "the devil" looks even remotely like Beastie. > > uNF uNF Beastie's cute. Grow up. Images are an illusion, in the written > word doubly so. > > Isn't deciding it'd be fun to read -chat now and then in and of itself fun? > > Humbug I say. > -- > Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve > Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org > http://people.FreeBSD.org/~jmallett/ | Support my FreeBSD hacking! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 6:41:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBA637B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98AB243E42; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:41:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA4Ec4s14481; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:38:04 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gA4Ec4D11351; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:38:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA4Ec1x11344; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:38:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DC68642.2040903@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:37:54 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: Juli Mallett , Paul Everlund , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The people who know what Beastie is, already don't care. The people who care aboud using FreeBSD, are most likely not going to think "devil". The people who barely know how to use windows, and don't know what FreeBSD or linux are, will not be a problem. They aren't likely to go to the local computer store and look for a new OS for their puter. The point is null. Besides, who cares if someone is offended? Can we please not change everything in our lives so that some single person in the world won't be offended? Here's what I say: It's a fucking mascot. Get over it. If you don't like it, don't look at it. If it's the only thing you have to complain about in life, then you're doing pretty good.. Eric ps. - that's all "for argument's sake" - don't hang me over it. Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little > more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types > of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you > of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that > know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the > wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use > Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this > question? > > Regards, > Lefteris > > Juli Mallett wrote: > >>* De: Lefteris Tsintjelis [ Data: 2002-11-04 ] >> [ Subjecte: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? ] >> >>> Grow ups or not and as ridiculous as it may sound and probably is, >>>these are both good points and they both could have effect on FreeBSD's >>>popularity, the satan looking symbol and the hostility towards Berkeley. >>>As for the symbol, well, I would expect it to look something more world >>>wide acceptable, neutral, and cute, like Penguin is and not as a >>>"demon". We all know the difference between "daemons" and "demons", >>>however, there are plenty of people that don't and as far as popularity >>>goes compared to Linux, well, popular doesn't necessarily mean a >>>"kitchen sink" linux OS, IF HANDLED RIGHT of course, and I am sure that >>>there isn't anyone here that wouldn't like FreeBSD being popular. After >>>all, I think it deserves a lot more than Linux does and the way these >>>third party linux companies such as RedHat and SuSE are handling it. >> >>The fact that we have a number of *very* devoutly religious developers >>who come from religions where there is a figure similar to that which >>people seem to be alluding to, at least in translated written descriptions >>and artistic renderings which may or may not have been based on said >>descriptions, should be a good point, unless someone can believe that >>said people are actually in service of the devil... >> >>If I'm in service of el diablo, I wish someone would tell me... I expect >>better opportunities for sinning and whatnot! >> >>All joking aside, goats are cute, beastie is cute, and I've known a lot >>of people who went to Berkeley who are, to say the least, cute. >> >>It's beyond ridiculous, it's pretentious nonsense! People need to realise >>that "satan" hasn't shown himself to the world at large even in anecdotal >>accounts for quite a while, unless you count political commercials... And >>neither has "god" - you'd think that one way or the other we'd have one of >>them telling us a thing or two in moderately modern times about, at the least, >>what the "devil" actually looks like. >> >>Frankly, I find it more plausible that you're all manifestations of (my) >>deranged imagination, than that "the devil" looks even remotely like Beastie. >> >>uNF uNF Beastie's cute. Grow up. Images are an illusion, in the written >>word doubly so. >> >>Isn't deciding it'd be fun to read -chat now and then in and of itself fun? >> >>Humbug I say. >>-- >>Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve >>Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org >>http://people.FreeBSD.org/~jmallett/ | Support my FreeBSD hacking! > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 6:44:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0144B37B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:44:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from grillolja.cs.umu.se (grillolja.cs.umu.se [130.239.40.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FFE43E4A; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:44:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tdv94ped@cs.umu.se) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0B29FDF; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:44:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from kvist.cs.umu.se (kvist.cs.umu.se [130.239.40.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by grillolja.cs.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C18B9FE5; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:44:10 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:44:09 +0100 (MET) From: Paul Everlund To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: Juli Mallett , , Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-Reply-To: <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new amavisd-new-20020630 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little > more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types > of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you > of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that > know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the > wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use > Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this > question? > > Regards, > Lefteris People who are sane wouldn't react or respond at all. People who on the other hand says it's the devil, bla, bla, and that's an evil thing, bla, bla, and that the OS is evil too, they should probably be going to some kind of therapist. :-) Windows really is evil, but not in a religious way. It's evil because it crashes. Maybe it would be more appropriate if they instead used that little nice guy "The Daemon"? :-) Have a nice day! Best regards, Paul > Juli Mallett wrote: > > > > * De: Lefteris Tsintjelis [ Data: 2002-11-04 ] > > [ Subjecte: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? ] > > > Grow ups or not and as ridiculous as it may sound and probably is, > > > these are both good points and they both could have effect on FreeBSD's > > > popularity, the satan looking symbol and the hostility towards Berkeley. > > > As for the symbol, well, I would expect it to look something more world > > > wide acceptable, neutral, and cute, like Penguin is and not as a > > > "demon". We all know the difference between "daemons" and "demons", > > > however, there are plenty of people that don't and as far as popularity > > > goes compared to Linux, well, popular doesn't necessarily mean a > > > "kitchen sink" linux OS, IF HANDLED RIGHT of course, and I am sure that > > > there isn't anyone here that wouldn't like FreeBSD being popular. After > > > all, I think it deserves a lot more than Linux does and the way these > > > third party linux companies such as RedHat and SuSE are handling it. > > > > The fact that we have a number of *very* devoutly religious developers > > who come from religions where there is a figure similar to that which > > people seem to be alluding to, at least in translated written descriptions > > and artistic renderings which may or may not have been based on said > > descriptions, should be a good point, unless someone can believe that > > said people are actually in service of the devil... > > > > If I'm in service of el diablo, I wish someone would tell me... I expect > > better opportunities for sinning and whatnot! > > > > All joking aside, goats are cute, beastie is cute, and I've known a lot > > of people who went to Berkeley who are, to say the least, cute. > > > > It's beyond ridiculous, it's pretentious nonsense! People need to realise > > that "satan" hasn't shown himself to the world at large even in anecdotal > > accounts for quite a while, unless you count political commercials... And > > neither has "god" - you'd think that one way or the other we'd have one of > > them telling us a thing or two in moderately modern times about, at the least, > > what the "devil" actually looks like. > > > > Frankly, I find it more plausible that you're all manifestations of (my) > > deranged imagination, than that "the devil" looks even remotely like Beastie. > > > > uNF uNF Beastie's cute. Grow up. Images are an illusion, in the written > > word doubly so. > > > > Isn't deciding it'd be fun to read -chat now and then in and of itself fun? > > > > Humbug I say. > > -- > > Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve > > Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org > > http://people.FreeBSD.org/~jmallett/ | Support my FreeBSD hacking! > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 6:53:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94C037B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-send.myrealbox.com (smtp-send.myrealbox.com [192.108.102.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 648FB43E6E for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:53:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mimerki@myrealbox.com) Received: from Rozinante mimerki@smtp-send.myrealbox.com [24.161.7.174] by smtp-send.myrealbox.com with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 3.14 $ on Novell NetWare; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:53:35 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" From: Marcia Barrett Nice To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:53:27 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] Cc: Lefteris Tsintjelis References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> In-Reply-To: <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02110409532703.00413@Rozinante> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday 04 November 2002 09:31 am, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many?: | I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little | more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types | of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you | of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that | know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the | wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use | Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this | question? | Well, everyone I've met who doesn't recognize the Beastie as a BSD symbol seems to assume it's a sports mascot. Similarly, random people don't seem to assume that my computer voodoo doll is indicative of my casting evil curses on their computers and I've been asked on ocassion if I'm a big Pittsburgh (Penguins) fan. Marci -- Oh thou of noble birth meditate upon thy own tutelary deity." -The Tibetan Book of the Dead To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 7:16:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E98637B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ene.asda.gr (ene.asda.gr [193.92.118.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F43B43E4A; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:16:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lefty@ene.asda.gr) Received: from ene.asda.gr (lefty.ene.asda.gr [193.92.118.162]) (authenticated bits=0) by ene.asda.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4FFuIS040545; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:15:58 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lefty@ene.asda.gr) Message-ID: <3DC68F57.97E736EF@ene.asda.gr> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:16:39 +0200 From: Lefteris Tsintjelis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Everlund Cc: Juli Mallett , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Maybe they should, maybe they should not use some therapist. The point is that this is the majority of them and yes maybe Windblows is the real evil thing, still, the fact _IS_ that it is used to more than 90% of the PCs worldwide. FreeBSD, or even the most other well known OS, linux, _ARE NOT_. According to you and me they may need therapy, BUT that is the majority of them and according to them we maybe the ones that we could use some therapy. We are the minority afterall so I guess we should consult some therapist, right? Do you see the point I am trying to make here? People believe and use different things. After all its a free world and they are in title to do so. The problem here is that most of their responses to the previous question, since they never even heard of Unix or alike systems, will be that "this OS since it has a sign that looks like the devil and therefor is evil", and I think that this should be taken into very serious consideration if FreeBSD would like to increase its popularity even more, I am sure Lixux has. Paul Everlund wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > > > I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little > > more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types > > of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you > > of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that > > know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the > > wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use > > Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this > > question? > > > > Regards, > > Lefteris > > People who are sane wouldn't react or respond at all. People who > on the other hand says it's the devil, bla, bla, and that's an evil > thing, bla, bla, and that the OS is evil too, they should probably be > going to some kind of therapist. :-) > > Windows really is evil, but not in a religious way. It's evil because > it crashes. Maybe it would be more appropriate if they instead used > that little nice guy "The Daemon"? :-) > > Have a nice day! > > Best regards, > Paul > > > Juli Mallett wrote: > > > > > > * De: Lefteris Tsintjelis [ Data: 2002-11-04 ] > > > [ Subjecte: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? ] > > > > Grow ups or not and as ridiculous as it may sound and probably is, > > > > these are both good points and they both could have effect on FreeBSD's > > > > popularity, the satan looking symbol and the hostility towards Berkeley. > > > > As for the symbol, well, I would expect it to look something more world > > > > wide acceptable, neutral, and cute, like Penguin is and not as a > > > > "demon". We all know the difference between "daemons" and "demons", > > > > however, there are plenty of people that don't and as far as popularity > > > > goes compared to Linux, well, popular doesn't necessarily mean a > > > > "kitchen sink" linux OS, IF HANDLED RIGHT of course, and I am sure that > > > > there isn't anyone here that wouldn't like FreeBSD being popular. After > > > > all, I think it deserves a lot more than Linux does and the way these > > > > third party linux companies such as RedHat and SuSE are handling it. > > > > > > The fact that we have a number of *very* devoutly religious developers > > > who come from religions where there is a figure similar to that which > > > people seem to be alluding to, at least in translated written descriptions > > > and artistic renderings which may or may not have been based on said > > > descriptions, should be a good point, unless someone can believe that > > > said people are actually in service of the devil... > > > > > > If I'm in service of el diablo, I wish someone would tell me... I expect > > > better opportunities for sinning and whatnot! > > > > > > All joking aside, goats are cute, beastie is cute, and I've known a lot > > > of people who went to Berkeley who are, to say the least, cute. > > > > > > It's beyond ridiculous, it's pretentious nonsense! People need to realise > > > that "satan" hasn't shown himself to the world at large even in anecdotal > > > accounts for quite a while, unless you count political commercials... And > > > neither has "god" - you'd think that one way or the other we'd have one of > > > them telling us a thing or two in moderately modern times about, at the least, > > > what the "devil" actually looks like. > > > > > > Frankly, I find it more plausible that you're all manifestations of (my) > > > deranged imagination, than that "the devil" looks even remotely like Beastie. > > > > > > uNF uNF Beastie's cute. Grow up. Images are an illusion, in the written > > > word doubly so. > > > > > > Isn't deciding it'd be fun to read -chat now and then in and of itself fun? > > > > > > Humbug I say. > > > -- > > > Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve > > > Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org > > > http://people.FreeBSD.org/~jmallett/ | Support my FreeBSD hacking! > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 7:17:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9517737B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:17:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-21.mail.nl.demon.net (post-21.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64A243E75 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:17:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cls@raggedclown.net) Received: from [212.238.197.102] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post-21.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 188iz0-000AQc-00 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:17:43 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 8631AE8A3 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:17:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from willow.raggedclown.net (willow.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.10]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id B999DE899 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:17:31 +0100 (CET) Received: by willow.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [willow], from userid 1009) id 7F30122596; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:17:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:17:32 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104151732.GA469@raggedclown.net> References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 04:31:10PM +0200, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little > more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types > of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you > of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that > know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the > wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use > Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this > question? > Why not try a poll. And so what if people say "it's a devil/demon" ? You make the assumption they have to be exorcised immediately. People who use expressions such as "wide majority of people" usually say it in the expectation that everyone agress with them, without any single shred of evidence for such a statement. I will shut up now, I have obviously been possessed and should know better than to pursue this singularly ridiculous line that approximately 2 people on this list think the daemon offends people. Murder, rape, war, erosion of civil liberties, terror -- all these are indulged in by people of most religions and of none. Personally I would be more terrified the day someone points an AK47 at my head.. which is happening to people as we speak, by people who may well pray to their God on a regular basis. That is "offensive". Not some cartoon character daemon. -- Regards Cliff Sarginson The Netherlands [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 7:37: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F12937B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pogo.caustic.org (caustic.org [64.163.147.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD18043E75 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:37:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Received: from localhost (jan@localhost) by pogo.caustic.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA4FawO13647; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:36:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:36:58 -0800 (PST) From: "f.johan.beisser" To: Cliff Sarginson Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? [A P.S.] In-Reply-To: <20021104140952.GA2795@raggedclown.net> Message-ID: <20021104073638.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > Am I doomed ? naturally you are. straight to hell, sir. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan@caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 7:48:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1734037B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from grillolja.cs.umu.se (grillolja.cs.umu.se [130.239.40.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2130343E4A; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:48:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tdv94ped@cs.umu.se) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amavisd-new (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1499FDF; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:48:22 +0100 (MET) Received: from kvist.cs.umu.se (kvist.cs.umu.se [130.239.40.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by grillolja.cs.umu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id F242B9FDC; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:48:15 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:48:15 +0100 (MET) From: Paul Everlund To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: Juli Mallett , , Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-Reply-To: <3DC68F57.97E736EF@ene.asda.gr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new amavisd-new-20020630 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > Maybe they should, maybe they should not use some therapist. The point > is that this is the majority of them and yes maybe Windblows is the real > evil thing, still, the fact _IS_ that it is used to more than 90% of the > PCs worldwide. FreeBSD, or even the most other well known OS, linux, > _ARE NOT_. According to you and me they may need therapy, BUT that is > the majority of them and according to them we maybe the ones that we > could use some therapy. We are the minority afterall so I guess we > should consult some therapist, right? Do you see the point I am trying > to make here? People believe and use different things. After all its a > free world and they are in title to do so. The problem here is that most > of their responses to the previous question, since they never even heard > of Unix or alike systems, will be that "this OS since it has a sign that > looks like the devil and therefor is evil", and I think that this should > be taken into very serious consideration if FreeBSD would like to > increase its popularity even more, I am sure Lixux has. My point was not that Windows users should go to a therapist (but you may have a point), but those who don't use anything that is good because of a logo. I think the logo is appropriate as it's a "damn" good OS, and it's a "hell" of a lot better than Windows. :-) Windows is used by the masses because good very promotion, various marketing tricks that have turned out very well, and it's easy to use for the average computer user. Also, bear in mind, that almost all computers that are sold carries Windows as a pre-installed OS. How can in not be big and used by everyone? How about a cow for a logo, as animals seems to be ok, referring to Linux penguin? Oh! That would upset the people in India. I guess no person in India have bought a computer from Gateway. How about a rabbit? No can do! We all know what their favourite interest are, which is a "sin" for human beings not married. The rabbit logo for the OS could by those be interpreted as the OS for sexmaniacs. :-) As you can see I'm not taking this very serious and I think that the logo is perfectly ok. Take care! Best regards, Paul > Paul Everlund wrote: > > > > On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > > > > > I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little > > > more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types > > > of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you > > > of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that > > > know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the > > > wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use > > > Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this > > > question? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lefteris > > > > People who are sane wouldn't react or respond at all. People who > > on the other hand says it's the devil, bla, bla, and that's an evil > > thing, bla, bla, and that the OS is evil too, they should probably be > > going to some kind of therapist. :-) > > > > Windows really is evil, but not in a religious way. It's evil because > > it crashes. Maybe it would be more appropriate if they instead used > > that little nice guy "The Daemon"? :-) > > > > Have a nice day! > > > > Best regards, > > Paul > > > > > Juli Mallett wrote: > > > > > > > > * De: Lefteris Tsintjelis [ Data: 2002-11-04 ] > > > > [ Subjecte: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? ] > > > > > Grow ups or not and as ridiculous as it may sound and probably is, > > > > > these are both good points and they both could have effect on FreeBSD's > > > > > popularity, the satan looking symbol and the hostility towards Berkeley. > > > > > As for the symbol, well, I would expect it to look something more world > > > > > wide acceptable, neutral, and cute, like Penguin is and not as a > > > > > "demon". We all know the difference between "daemons" and "demons", > > > > > however, there are plenty of people that don't and as far as popularity > > > > > goes compared to Linux, well, popular doesn't necessarily mean a > > > > > "kitchen sink" linux OS, IF HANDLED RIGHT of course, and I am sure that > > > > > there isn't anyone here that wouldn't like FreeBSD being popular. After > > > > > all, I think it deserves a lot more than Linux does and the way these > > > > > third party linux companies such as RedHat and SuSE are handling it. > > > > > > > > The fact that we have a number of *very* devoutly religious developers > > > > who come from religions where there is a figure similar to that which > > > > people seem to be alluding to, at least in translated written descriptions > > > > and artistic renderings which may or may not have been based on said > > > > descriptions, should be a good point, unless someone can believe that > > > > said people are actually in service of the devil... > > > > > > > > If I'm in service of el diablo, I wish someone would tell me... I expect > > > > better opportunities for sinning and whatnot! > > > > > > > > All joking aside, goats are cute, beastie is cute, and I've known a lot > > > > of people who went to Berkeley who are, to say the least, cute. > > > > > > > > It's beyond ridiculous, it's pretentious nonsense! People need to realise > > > > that "satan" hasn't shown himself to the world at large even in anecdotal > > > > accounts for quite a while, unless you count political commercials... And > > > > neither has "god" - you'd think that one way or the other we'd have one of > > > > them telling us a thing or two in moderately modern times about, at the least, > > > > what the "devil" actually looks like. > > > > > > > > Frankly, I find it more plausible that you're all manifestations of (my) > > > > deranged imagination, than that "the devil" looks even remotely like Beastie. > > > > > > > > uNF uNF Beastie's cute. Grow up. Images are an illusion, in the written > > > > word doubly so. > > > > > > > > Isn't deciding it'd be fun to read -chat now and then in and of itself fun? > > > > > > > > Humbug I say. > > > > -- > > > > Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve > > > > Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org > > > > http://people.FreeBSD.org/~jmallett/ | Support my FreeBSD hacking! > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 7:49:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3278E37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from pogo.caustic.org (caustic.org [64.163.147.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1C9843E4A for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Received: from localhost (jan@localhost) by pogo.caustic.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA4FnRR13722; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:49:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:49:27 -0800 (PST) From: "f.johan.beisser" To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-Reply-To: <3DC68F57.97E736EF@ene.asda.gr> Message-ID: <20021104073910.P30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > Maybe they should, maybe they should not use some therapist. The > point is that this is the majority of them and yes maybe Windblows is > the real evil thing, still, the fact _IS_ that it is used to more than > 90% of the PCs worldwide. FreeBSD, or even the most other well known OS, > linux, _ARE NOT_. According to you and me they may need therapy, BUT > that is the majority of them and according to them we maybe the ones > that we could use some therapy. i don't think most computer using christians will be offended by the BSD mascot. if they are, i'm sure they'd have problems with computers anyway. > We are the minority afterall so I guess we should consult some > therapist, right? Do you see the point I am trying to make here? i'm not sure what point you're trying to make, other than the same one a few others have made: Beastie offends people, so change it. you're not the first to say this, you won't be the last. and, guess what? we still have our Beastie as a mascot. > People believe and use different things. After all its a free world and > they are in title to do so. The problem here is that most of their > responses to the previous question, since they never even heard of Unix > or alike systems, will be that "this OS since it has a sign that looks > like the devil and therefor is evil", and I think that this should be > taken into very serious consideration if FreeBSD would like to increase > its popularity even more, I am sure Lixux has. i think you confuse the mascot for the functionality. if someone chooses linux, they've chosen either because of hearing about it, having a friend tell them about it, or because someone suggested installing it. mascots are just that, mascots. chill out, have a beer. the easily offended should stop being reactionary, and relax a little. there are worse things out there than beastie. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan@caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 7:54:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E27437B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CCCF43E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:54:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.236.115] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id A7D1436F025E; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:52:49 -0600 Message-ID: <006001c2841a$0edcc240$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "f.johan.beisser" , "Cliff Sarginson" Cc: References: <20021104073638.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? [A P.S.] Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:51:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: "f.johan.beisser" To: "Cliff Sarginson" Cc: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? [A P.S.] > On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > > > Am I doomed ? > > naturally you are. > > straight to hell, sir. But not a> as a result of his ISP, not b> as a result of his use/love for FBSD.... and neither am I for those reasons.... Kevin Kinsey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 7:55:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3CF37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailf.telia.com (mailf.telia.com [194.22.194.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8652043E6E for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:55:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (malin.twenty4help.se [195.67.108.195]) by mailf.telia.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA4Fthdl016576; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:55:43 +0100 (CET) X-Original-Recipient: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <3DC69821.8010909@401.cx> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:54:09 +0100 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little > more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types > of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you > of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that > know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the > wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use > Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this > question? > > Regards, > Lefteris > *snip* I just tested this on a very small (3 people) group that has no idea what FreeBSD is, and hardly knows how to operate any kind of computer other then to check their hotmail account. 2 of them were girls, and both found the daemon cute. One of them guessed it was the mascot for a sportsteam of some kind and the other was pretty sure she had seen that mascot on TV, in some kind of japanese cartoon. The third, a guy, guessed it was from a Counter Strike or Quake clan or similar, but was in no way offended by it. When I revealed what it actually was, one of the girls asked why a computer OS used a demon as a logo. I explained that it was not a demon but a daemon, but she didnt really seem to care. To her, it was a demon, and if a OS wanted to have a demon as mascot it was not her problem. None of them seemed offended or scared by the fact that FreeBSD uses a daemon. -- R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8: 2:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63A837B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8251B43E3B; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomifeh@earthlink.net) Received: from earthlink.net (bgp586692bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.202.147]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H52003W47767Q@mtaout06.icomcast.net>; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:01:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:02:01 -0500 From: Larry Sica Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-reply-to: <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: Paul Everlund , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, November 4, 2002, at 03:28 AM, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > Grow ups or not and as ridiculous as it may sound and probably is, > these are both good points and they both could have effect on FreeBSD's > popularity, the satan looking symbol and the hostility towards > Berkeley. > As for the symbol, well, I would expect it to look something more world > wide acceptable, neutral, and cute, like Penguin is and not as a > "demon". We all know the difference between "daemons" and "demons", > however, there are plenty of people that don't and as far as popularity > goes compared to Linux, well, popular doesn't necessarily mean a > "kitchen sink" linux OS, IF HANDLED RIGHT of course, and I am sure that > there isn't anyone here that wouldn't like FreeBSD being popular. After > all, I think it deserves a lot more than Linux does and the way these > third party linux companies such as RedHat and SuSE are handling it. > I'd love to know who exactly it alienates besides some hicks that wouldn't use it anyway? > I am moving this to -chat. It doesn't belong here. > > Regards, > Lefteris > > Paul Everlund wrote: >> >> JT32255@aol.com wrote: >>> The traditional devil horns derive from goats, which if you have >>> ever been >>> around goats, seen how they can climb, eat all vegetation in sight, >>> climb >>> trees, get on roofs, etc., how kids gambol, is understandable. But >>> it >>> alienates so many. Heh the imagery is far older than that, goes back to mesopotamia, there was a night demon that many think the modern imagery for the devil descended from. Also it wasnt just the goat, but couldbe any animal, often a goat, or a bull, or a dog or some other animal. >>> But as it alienates so many Christians, Jews and Muslims >>> as a little Satan symbol, really limits the widespread use, public >>> and tax >>> paid support and availability of BSD. A better symbol might be the >>> statue of >>> liberty, or the creator of the first Library, Aristotle. The >>> Penguin symbol >>> is LINUX' best advantage over BSD, not to mention all the public >>> hostility >>> towards Berkley. >> All the public hostility towards Berkley? Where exactly? And imho the linux is annoying but it never stopped me from trying Linux. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8: 9:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E0337B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085C543E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:09:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from gray.sea.gr (patr530-b204.otenet.gr [212.205.244.212]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4G9ocd023697; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:09:51 +0200 (EET) Received: from gray.sea.gr (gray [127.0.0.1]) by gray.sea.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4GAG9n023277; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:10:17 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by gray.sea.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA4GAEOJ023103; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:10:14 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:10:13 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104161012.GG908@gray.sea.gr> References: <3DC68F57.97E736EF@ene.asda.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DC68F57.97E736EF@ene.asda.gr> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-11-04 17:16, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > Maybe they should, maybe they should not use some therapist. The > point is that this is the majority of them and yes maybe Windblows > is the real evil thing, still, the fact _IS_ that it is used to more > than 90% of the PCs worldwide. I hope you do realise that the vast majority of them humans doesn't even know how to use a computer and a large percentage of them are also ignorant of what one of them, "puter things", is. The majority argument is flawed, because that would mean we have to install Windows on their computers, right? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:14:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E2337B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:14:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-20.mail.nl.demon.net (post-20.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03AE943E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:14:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cls@raggedclown.net) Received: from [212.238.197.102] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post-20.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 188jrz-0005ma-00 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:14:31 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 38100E8A7 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:14:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from willow.raggedclown.net (willow.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.10]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 3A588E88F for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:14:20 +0100 (CET) Received: by willow.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [willow], from userid 1009) id 731D922596; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:14:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:14:21 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104161421.GB730@raggedclown.net> References: <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 11:02:01AM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > > On Monday, November 4, 2002, at 03:28 AM, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > > >>> But as it alienates so many Christians, Jews and Muslims > >>>as a little Satan symbol, really limits the widespread use, public > >>>and tax > >>>paid support and availability of BSD. A better symbol might be the > >>>statue of > >>>liberty, or the creator of the first Library, Aristotle. The > >>>Penguin symbol > >>>is LINUX' best advantage over BSD, not to mention all the public > >>>hostility > >>>towards Berkley. > >> > > All the public hostility towards Berkley? Where exactly? And imho the > linux is annoying but it never stopped me from trying Linux. > Mmm..I was wonderfing the same thing. I have never been there, but I am sure if I say the word "Berkley" people don't shriek in horror and stick wooden stakes through my heart. In fact I would be surprised if (as I live in Europe) they knew it is just some place in California ... and they would just produce a wealth of Californian jokes :) "How many Californians does it take to screw in a lightbulb ?" Answer: "Five. One to screw in the lightbulb, and 4 more to share the experience". Hee hee. -- Regards Cliff Sarginson The Netherlands [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:16:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8537A37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10FF543E75 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomifeh@earthlink.net) Received: from earthlink.net (bgp586692bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.202.147]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5200JPR7VYJG@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:16:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:16:39 -0500 From: Larry Sica Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-reply-to: <20021104151732.GA469@raggedclown.net> To: Cliff Sarginson Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, November 4, 2002, at 10:17 AM, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 04:31:10PM +0200, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: >> I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little >> more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types >> of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind >> you >> of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that >> know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the >> the >> wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even >> use >> Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this >> question? >> > Why not try a poll. And so what if people say "it's a devil/demon" ? > You make the assumption they have to be exorcised immediately. > People who use expressions such as "wide majority of people" usually > say it in the expectation that everyone agress with them, without any > single shred of evidence for such a statement. > > I will shut up now, I have obviously been possessed and should know > better than to pursue this singularly ridiculous line that > approximately > 2 people on this list think the daemon offends people. > > Murder, rape, war, erosion of civil liberties, terror -- all these are > indulged in by people of most religions and of none. Personally I would > be more terrified the day someone points an AK47 at my head.. which is > happening to people as we speak, by people who may well pray to their > God > on a regular basis. That is "offensive". Not some cartoon character > daemon. > Personally, I find it more offensive when someone tries to dictate what I should find offensive(I am not referring to anyone on this list btw). There is nothing sinister about that though. I am left-handed too, there is an interesting origin to the word sinister. If someone has the time to be so offended by Beastie, well it's a lot like those who go out everyday to protest this or that. They need a job ;) --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:18:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F9337B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074C143E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:18:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: by testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 84FB01AAE9; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:18:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A13B1A947; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:18:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:18:15 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Eric Anderson Cc: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , Subject: Re: "FreeBSD as a Desktop" heh, heh.... In-Reply-To: <3DC67B54.4040709@centtech.com> Message-ID: <20021104101519.I57495-100000@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Eric Anderson wrote: > Chris Dillon wrote: > > The newest NVidia cards work fine with FreeBSD's XFree86 port. I > > created a patchset for XFree86 that added support for the newest cards > > to the nv driver which was added to the XFree86 port on August 5. > > You have to either build XFree86 from the ports, or use > > FreeBSD.org-built binaries made after that date. The > > XFree86.org-built binaries will not have any improvements incorporated > > in them after the day that particular version of XFree86 was released. > > I'm running 4.7-RELEASE, shouldn't that be new enough? I would think so. I see the patches in the port, I hope they actually get put into the binary packages. Do you have a particular card that isn't working? If so, paste the relevant portion of pciconf -l -v output. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon(at)wolves.k12.mo.us FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32 (Intel x86) and Alpha architectures - IA64, PowerPC, UltraSPARC, ARM, and S/390 under development - http://www.freebsd.org No trees were harmed in the composition of this message, although some electrons were mildly inconvenienced. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:18:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C769637B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B3443E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:18:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomifeh@earthlink.net) Received: from earthlink.net (bgp586692bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.202.147]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H520058F7YX5L@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:18:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:18:41 -0500 From: Larry Sica Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-reply-to: <3DC69821.8010909@401.cx> To: Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg Cc: Lefteris Tsintjelis , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <15657FF0-F011-11D6-947F-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, November 4, 2002, at 10:54 AM, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: >> I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little >> more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types >> of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind >> you >> of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that >> know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the >> the >> wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even >> use >> Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this >> question? >> Regards, >> Lefteris > > *snip* > > I just tested this on a very small (3 people) group that has no idea > what FreeBSD is, and hardly knows how to operate any kind of computer > other then to check their hotmail account. > 2 of them were girls, and both found the daemon cute. One of them > guessed it was the mascot for a sportsteam of some kind and the other > was pretty sure she had seen that mascot on TV, in some kind of > japanese cartoon. The third, a guy, guessed it was from a Counter > Strike or Quake clan or similar, but was in no way offended by it. > When I revealed what it actually was, one of the girls asked why a > computer OS used a demon as a logo. I explained that it was not a > demon but a daemon, but she didnt really seem to care. To her, it was > a demon, and if a OS wanted to have a demon as mascot it was not her > problem. None of them seemed offended or scared by the fact that > FreeBSD uses a daemon. > As an aside, i worked for a "Christian" company at one point and we used FreeBSD. No one there was offended by Beastie. It never even came up. --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:21: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC1A37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C6743E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:21:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 311542A93; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:20:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:20:54 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021104162054.GA38286@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <77068.1036224664@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <77068.1036224664@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Poul-Henning Kamp: > 5.0-OVERDUE Already taken by 3.0 :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:26:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D1837B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:26:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B97C43E6E for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:26:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 3A8532AA6; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:26:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:26:17 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021104162617.GB38286@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <20021102095754.GA19456@marvin.bsdng.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021102095754.GA19456@marvin.bsdng.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Kyle Martin: > 5.Doh! with a new beastie mascot pic found at: If you want a mascot, take this then: (drawing made for BSDCon Europe although that one is wearing even less) (B. Bellamy is a well known french comic artist, drawing his models in several magazines -- including Linux ones) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:26:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C538537B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:26:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-21.mail.nl.demon.net (post-21.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F8843E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:26:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cls@raggedclown.net) Received: from [212.238.197.102] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post-21.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 188k3Y-000J5f-00 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:26:29 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 69AE6E8A7 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:26:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from willow.raggedclown.net (willow.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.10]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 7CC75E88F for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:26:17 +0100 (CET) Received: by willow.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [willow], from userid 1009) id CC1C922596; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:26:18 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:26:18 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104162618.GA1056@raggedclown.net> References: <20021104151732.GA469@raggedclown.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 11:16:39AM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > > Personally, I find it more offensive when someone tries to dictate what > I should find offensive(I am not referring to anyone on this list btw). > There is nothing sinister about that though. I am left-handed too, > there is an interesting origin to the word sinister. > Mmmm..I had a scholarly education, I shall alias you as Mr Sinistra .. :) > > --Larry -- Regards Cliff Sarginson The Netherlands [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:40:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4F337B408 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:40:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail14.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1680043E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:40:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 23600 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 16:40:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail14.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 4 Nov 2002 16:40:37 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4GeWn5045142; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:40:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <15657FF0-F011-11D6-947F-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:40:33 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Larry Sica Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Lefteris Tsintjelis , "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 04-Nov-2002 Larry Sica wrote: > > On Monday, November 4, 2002, at 10:54 AM, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg > wrote: > >> Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: >>> I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little >>> more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types >>> of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind >>> you >>> of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that >>> know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the >>> the >>> wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even >>> use >>> Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this >>> question? >>> Regards, >>> Lefteris >> >> *snip* >> >> I just tested this on a very small (3 people) group that has no idea >> what FreeBSD is, and hardly knows how to operate any kind of computer >> other then to check their hotmail account. >> 2 of them were girls, and both found the daemon cute. One of them >> guessed it was the mascot for a sportsteam of some kind and the other >> was pretty sure she had seen that mascot on TV, in some kind of >> japanese cartoon. The third, a guy, guessed it was from a Counter >> Strike or Quake clan or similar, but was in no way offended by it. >> When I revealed what it actually was, one of the girls asked why a >> computer OS used a demon as a logo. I explained that it was not a >> demon but a daemon, but she didnt really seem to care. To her, it was >> a demon, and if a OS wanted to have a demon as mascot it was not her >> problem. None of them seemed offended or scared by the fact that >> FreeBSD uses a daemon. >> > > As an aside, i worked for a "Christian" company at one point and we > used FreeBSD. No one there was offended by Beastie. It never even > came up. As another aside I'm a devout Christian and a core team member who grew up in a real "hick" place in southwest Virginia in the U.S. Do the math. :) Granted, I don't really go out of my way to wear my FreeBSD T-shirt's on Wednesday nights, but I don't completely not go out of my way either. I do get a few jokes about it sometimes, but people base their perceptions on me about what they know of my character, not the mascot of the OS I work on. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:45:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820FC37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [66.111.41.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D70843E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:45:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 2B9D6706; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A82E369; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:45:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:45:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-Reply-To: <3DC68F57.97E736EF@ene.asda.gr> Message-ID: <20021104084352.X2225-100000@moo.sysabend.org> Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > Maybe they should, maybe they should not use some therapist. The point > is that this is the majority of them and yes maybe Windblows is the real > evil thing, still, the fact _IS_ that it is used to more than 90% of the > PCs worldwide. FreeBSD, or even the most other well known OS, linux, > _ARE NOT_. According to you and me they may need therapy, BUT that is You're missing the basic point that no one here cares what the unwashed masses think of the BSD daemon. Fuck' 'em if they find it offensive. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 8:53:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E8F37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-21.mail.nl.demon.net (post-21.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CBD143E75 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:53:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cls@raggedclown.net) Received: from [212.238.197.102] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post-21.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 188kTr-000N15-00 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:53:39 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 0F67AE8A7 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:53:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from willow.raggedclown.net (willow.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.10]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 3AEDFE88F for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:53:28 +0100 (CET) Received: by willow.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [willow], from userid 1009) id EB2A9225A5; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:53:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:53:29 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104165329.GA1469@raggedclown.net> References: <15657FF0-F011-11D6-947F-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 11:40:33AM -0500, John Baldwin wrote: > > > As another aside I'm a devout Christian and a core team member who > grew up in a real "hick" place in southwest Virginia in the U.S. > Do the math. :) Granted, I don't really go out of my way to wear > my FreeBSD T-shirt's on Wednesday nights, but I don't completely not > go out of my way either. I do get a few jokes about it sometimes, > but people base their perceptions on me about what they know of my > character, not the mascot of the OS I work on. > So not only are you a Christian, not only do you not mind the mascot, but you actually work at the heart of the team that perpetuates this "offense". Watch out .. we know where you live :) -- Regards Cliff Sarginson The Netherlands [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 9: 0:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D502B37B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ene.asda.gr (ene.asda.gr [193.92.118.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C9843E75; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:00:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lefty@ene.asda.gr) Received: from ene.asda.gr (lefty.ene.asda.gr [193.92.118.162]) (authenticated bits=0) by ene.asda.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4H0HIS040933; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:00:19 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lefty@ene.asda.gr) Message-ID: <3DC6A7CC.B5E1D695@ene.asda.gr> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 19:01:00 +0200 From: Lefteris Tsintjelis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Everlund Cc: Juli Mallett , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > which is a "sin" for human beings not married. The rabbit logo > for the OS could by those be interpreted as the OS for sexmaniacs. :-) Hell, that sounds like an excellent idea to me!!! I would definitely go for it! :-) Probably FreeBSD will get sued by Playboy but what the heck. As you see I am not taking this very seriously either. I didn't start the subject and let me make something clear to some other posting I 've seen about this subject, I sure don't believe any of this myself but still........... all I am saying is that things such as that _SHOULD_ be taken into consideration, for example an alternate logo would be nice something that doesn't deal with cows or demons or things such as that and ALL kind of people would like. Now, that would be a smart thing to do. I have seen this subject brought up a few times and probably will be again. > Windows is used by the masses because good very promotion, various > marketing tricks that have turned out very well, and it's easy to use > for the average computer user. Also, bear in mind, that almost all > computers that are sold carries Windows as a pre-installed OS. How can > in not be big and used by everyone? Exactly, because "its so damn easy to use for the average user"! That is the popularity behind Windblows. Now give the people an alternate solution as easy and as compatible to their work as Windblows and as good and stable as FreeBSD claims to be, that is free, and Windblows is gone by the wind! I am sure that would replace Windblows as a pre-installed OS or at least will give you an alternative choice with a pre-installed FreeBSD. Wouldn't that be nice? Anyway, I think I have had enough of this subject. I saw a few other postings on this subject, and someone said something about a beer so I thing I am gonna take his advise and go grab a few wearing muh bunny T-shirt with Beastie in the back!!! lol Cheers... Regards, Lefteris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 9: 6:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40B3837B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA3D43E7B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:06:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.236.115] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id A8AD6AD80254; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:04:45 -0600 Message-ID: <01f801c28424$06be5060$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: Subject: Re: Why use a daemon as a symbol since it alienates many.... Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:01:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org f. johan beisser prophesied: >>On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: >> Maybe they should, maybe they should not use some therapist. The >> point is that this is the majority of them and yes maybe Windblows is >> the real evil thing, still, the fact _IS_ that it is used to more than >> 90% of the PCs worldwide. FreeBSD, or even the most other well known OS, >> linux, _ARE NOT_. According to you and me they may need therapy, BUT >> that is the majority of them and according to them we maybe the ones >> that we could use some therapy. >i don't think most computer using christians will be offended by the BSD >mascot. if they are, i'm sure they'd have problems with computers anyway. While Johan's entire statement here isn't entirely worthy of trust, he 's right in that a Christian shouldn't necessarily be offended by the mascot. This brings up a most interesting point, and one that has certainly been demonstrated amply in this thread, to wit: Most 'orthodox' Christians (in the US, at least) don't use the 'computer' God gave them very well --- the lack of thinking before speaking and forming opinion/convictions has been instrumental in leading us toward the sorry status of Christendom now apparent in the world. When I first considered using FreeBSD, I had momentary misgivings about the mascot. I am not only a committed Christian, but I had been in church since the Sunday after I was born, and though ($AttendChurch!=$BeingAChristian) there are a few strongly held 'cultural' associations that tended to raise my blood pressure, or the hackles on my neck (whatever those are) just a bit. I searched for, and fairly quickly found an explanation, as well as a compu-historical reference for the term 'daemon,' and I found humor in the obvious pun, which is one of the best reasons for the mascot's existence. (I wonder if the OP has raised this issue with Net- or Open- hmmmm). A little thought and a tad of reading went a long way in allaying any doubt about something so trivial as a cartoon 'beastie.' I would suggest that the very real being referred to by the koine Greek New Testament as "apollyon" (among many other terms) bears little visual resemblance (or much other resemblance) to the FreeBSD mascot, and it would actually be better for Christians if we realized that. It seems likely that growth in FreeBSD comes from people who are searching for the features and characteristics that make it a great OS, and not on the basis of marketing. Until some big corporation decides that FBSD is it's ticket to the Big Time(tm) the marketing power of the 'mascot' and the term 'daemon' will have little effect on its popularity. I doubt that I see the 'beastie' more than once/twice a month, and then only when I load up the main page at freebsd.org...... Now, as for practicality. I run websites for two very 'conservative' churches on FBSD. I see no need for them to have decals on their boxen, nor .gifs on their home page. They do, however, greatly appreciate the fact that when something goes wrong, it's _not_ the server, and that I save them money by not paying Micro$oft for IIS and Exchange licenses..... Excellence in rational thought and radical devotion to Christ is far preferable to 'beastie bashing', and as for me, that's where my efforts will be laid...... Respectfully, Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. Minister of Music & Worship Cornerstone Baptist Church To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 9:20:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C05037B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from pogo.caustic.org (caustic.org [64.163.147.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABBEF43E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:20:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Received: from localhost (jan@localhost) by pogo.caustic.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA4HKOx14326; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:20:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:20:23 -0800 (PST) From: "f.johan.beisser" To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why use a daemon as a symbol since it alienates many.... In-Reply-To: <01f801c28424$06be5060$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> Message-ID: <20021104091009.H30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > f. johan beisser prophesied: > > While Johan's entire statement here isn't entirely worthy of trust, > he 's right in that a Christian shouldn't necessarily be offended by > the mascot. i admit to my minor bias against most "christians," and a bad habit of stereotyping. it doesn't prevent me from respecting those who have faith, trust, and religion though. we can, if you want, talk about this off list. i'm sure it would just start a flamewar; a useless, and pointless one at that. > This brings up a most interesting point, and one that has certainly been > demonstrated amply in this thread, to wit: Most 'orthodox' Christians > (in the US, at least) don't use the 'computer' God gave them very well > --- the lack of thinking before speaking and forming opinion/convictions > has been instrumental in leading us toward the sorry status of > Christendom now apparent in the world. in my experience, these are people who'd be fanatics no matter what religion they are. to wit, faith is not the same as religion. you can have faith, without being orthodox nor strict about following your religion. this is an aside, though. > When I first considered using FreeBSD, I had momentary misgivings about > the mascot. I am not only a committed Christian, but I had been in > church since the Sunday after I was born, and though wow. i first attended a service in a mosque in turkey. it wasn't, as you can assume, as a christian. nor as a muslim. > ($AttendChurch!=$BeingAChristian) > there are a few > strongly held 'cultural' associations that tended to raise my blood > pressure, or the hackles on my neck (whatever those are) just a bit. I > searched for, and fairly quickly found an explanation, as well as a > compu-historical reference for the term 'daemon,' and I found humor in > the obvious pun, which is one of the best reasons for the mascot's > existence. (I wonder if the OP has raised this issue with Net- or Open- > hmmmm). A little thought and a tad of reading went a long way in > allaying any doubt about something so trivial as a cartoon 'beastie.' "hackles on the neck" is a dog reference. when they're aggressive/aroused the fur on the back of the neck raises. the hackles. > Excellence in rational thought and radical devotion to Christ is far > preferable to 'beastie bashing', and as for me, that's where my > efforts will be laid...... that, i think, is something i can agree with. i wish more religious people would follow your lead. no matter what their religion. well, "excellence in rational thought and radical devotion" aspect. that rational thought is important. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan@caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 10:37:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFEBE37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from vectors.cx (manifold.vectors.cx [64.163.147.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E61543E4A for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from monkey@vectors.cx) Received: from vectors.cx (fe50c1a372aabf9882acf005c5bf3ccc@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vectors.cx (8.12.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id gA4IdJit039480; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from monkey@vectors.cx) Received: (from monkey@localhost) by vectors.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA4IdIjT039479; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:39:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from monkey) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:39:18 -0800 From: Adam Weinberger To: Larry Sica Cc: Lefteris Tsintjelis , Paul Everlund , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104183918.GQ197@vectors.cx> References: <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-action=pgp-signed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Editor: Vim 6.1 http://www.vim.org X-Mailer: Mutt 1.5 http://www.mutt.org X-PGP-Key: http://www.vectors.cx/pgp.key.txt X-URL: http://www.vectors.cx http://www.crackula.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 OK. First of all, I'm removing freebsd-questions from the cc: list. Freebsd-chat was added to the cc: list to MOVE it to -chat, not to encourage cross-posting ::) >> (11.04.2002 @ 0802 PST): Larry Sica said, in 2.3K: << > I'd love to know who exactly it alienates besides some hicks that > wouldn't use it anyway? Heh. Amusing as that concept is, at least acknowledge that the mascot does in fact piss off people who find the devil offensive. I shudder every time I read a Family Circus strip with a very religious, angelic theme, but that doesn't make me anything except opinionated. > >>>liberty, or the creator of the first Library, Aristotle. The > >>>Penguin symbol > >>>is LINUX' best advantage over BSD Hehe, this is one of the best statements I've read in quite a long time. > >>>not to mention all the public > >>>hostility > >>>towards Berkley. > > All the public hostility towards Berkley? Where exactly? I live in Berkeley, and I can tell you that there is in fact hostility towards the school, but I haven't met a single person yet, online or offline, who says, "Grr, Berkeley, devil horns, mascot, arrr." There's great hostility towards the school from anybody who tried to register for classes there or get a refund. I don't go to the school, and I hear much of these complaints. And then there's the rest of us who live in Berkeley and have been screwed by the City making sweeping laws affecting all citizens to keep the students at bay (like all businesses, including gas stations and 7-11's, have to close early... around midnight. And the 7-11 has a sign in the window that says "Only 1 student allowed in the store at a time," which they enforce randomly against anybody in their 20's). > And imho the > linux is annoying but it never stopped me from trying Linux. I can't say that I understand that statemente. - -Adam, had sworn not to participate in this thread - -- Adam Weinberger adam@vectors.cx adamw@FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9xr7Wo8KM2ULHQ/0RAoFHAKDWeAV8eZIdOaKNtdxMCQQPn//VIgCfSMAP BLsTEmTUKWL7C2uzJrqoOWA= =SKpQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 11:11:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84CB737B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:11:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 203D143E42; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:11:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomifeh@earthlink.net) Received: from earthlink.net (bgp586692bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.202.147]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H52001ILFZ1F2@mtaout02.icomcast.net>; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:11:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:11:39 -0500 From: Larry Sica Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-reply-to: <20021104183918.GQ197@vectors.cx> To: Adam Weinberger Cc: Lefteris Tsintjelis , Paul Everlund , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <3ED52DFF-F029-11D6-947F-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, November 4, 2002, at 01:39 PM, Adam Weinberger wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > OK. First of all, I'm removing freebsd-questions from the cc: list. > Freebsd-chat was added to the cc: list to MOVE it to -chat, not to > encourage cross-posting ::) > >>> (11.04.2002 @ 0802 PST): Larry Sica said, in 2.3K: << >> I'd love to know who exactly it alienates besides some hicks that >> wouldn't use it anyway? > > Heh. Amusing as that concept is, at least acknowledge that the mascot > does in fact piss off people who find the devil offensive. I shudder > every time I read a Family Circus strip with a very religious, angelic > theme, but that doesn't make me anything except opinionated. > Well my point was those who might be pissed off by it wouldn't be using FreeBSD anyway, and hell in the USA someone is always offended by something. It's the American Way ;). >>>>> hostility >>>>> towards Berkley. >> >> All the public hostility towards Berkley? Where exactly? > > I live in Berkeley, and I can tell you that there is in fact hostility > towards the school, but I haven't met a single person yet, online or > offline, who says, "Grr, Berkeley, devil horns, mascot, arrr." There's > great hostility towards the school from anybody who tried to register > for classes there or get a refund. I don't go to the school, and I hear > much of these complaints. And then there's the rest of us who live in > Berkeley and have been screwed by the City making sweeping laws > affecting all citizens to keep the students at bay (like all > businesses, > including gas stations and 7-11's, have to close early... around > midnight. And the 7-11 has a sign in the window that says "Only 1 > student allowed in the store at a time," which they enforce randomly > against anybody in their 20's). > I mean people all over the world hating berkeley, sounds like normal local gripes mostly there. I have never been to the school but the name doesn't bring instant hate heh. I didn't know their bueracracy was so..well annoying heh. >> And imho the >> linux is annoying but it never stopped me from trying Linux. > > I can't say that I understand that statemente. > forgot to add the word penguin..sorry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 11:40:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0CD37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (12-232-206-8.client.attbi.com [12.232.206.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4110143E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:40:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA63685; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Cliff Sarginson Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-Reply-To: <20021104161421.GB730@raggedclown.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Cliff Sarginson wrote: > On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 11:02:01AM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > > > > On Monday, November 4, 2002, at 03:28 AM, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > > > > >>> But as it alienates so many Christians, Jews and Muslims > > >>>as a little Satan symbol, really limits the widespread use, public > > >>>and tax > > >>>paid support and availability of BSD. A better symbol might be the > > >>>statue of > > >>>liberty, or the creator of the first Library, Aristotle. The > > >>>Penguin symbol > > >>>is LINUX' best advantage over BSD, not to mention all the public > > >>>hostility > > >>>towards Berkley. > > >> > > > > > All the public hostility towards Berkley? Where exactly? And imho the > > linux is annoying but it never stopped me from trying Linux. > > > Mmm..I was wonderfing the same thing. I have never been there, but I am > sure if I say the word "Berkley" people don't shriek in horror and stick > wooden stakes through my heart. In fact I would be surprised if (as I > live in Europe) they knew it is just some place in California ... and > they would just produce a wealth of Californian jokes :) > > "How many Californians does it take to screw in a lightbulb ?" > Answer: > "Five. One to screw in the lightbulb, and 4 more to share the > experience". None, Californians screw in Hottubs.. > > Hee hee. > > -- > Regards > Cliff Sarginson > The Netherlands > > [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 11:40:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB97F37B404; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (12-232-206-8.client.attbi.com [12.232.206.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D43043E75; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA63654; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:31:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:31:41 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: Paul Everlund , Juli Mallett , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-Reply-To: <3DC68F57.97E736EF@ene.asda.gr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: The whole reason that Linux has the pinguin is that they were jealous of the BSD daemon and decided that they needed to find their own mascot. I still hear comments however like "But the BSD daemon's way cooler" from Linux people. The BSD daemon has significant historical significance and the number of people who would find it a problem is so statically insignificant that it's not worth abandonning our herritage for them. It's 1/ cute 2/ MEMORABLE 3/ relevant (if you know the history) 4/ Unique Sound slike a winner to me.. Believe me, the daemon is not going away any time soon, so let's save bandwidth... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 12:30:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3950C37B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208DC43E3B; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.11.6/8.11.6) id gA4KUEP80180; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:30:14 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:30:14 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104203014.GB11426@shale.csir.co.za> Mail-Followup-To: Jeremy Lea , John Baldwin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <15657FF0-F011-11D6-947F-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 11:40:33AM -0500, John Baldwin wrote: > As another aside I'm a devout Christian and a core team member who > grew up in a real "hick" place in southwest Virginia in the U.S. > Do the math. :) Granted, I don't really go out of my way to wear > my FreeBSD T-shirt's on Wednesday nights, but I don't completely not > go out of my way either. I do get a few jokes about it sometimes, > but people base their perceptions on me about what they know of my > character, not the mascot of the OS I work on. Besides which, anyone claiming to be a Christian should know that there are few references to horns, a pitchfork and a pointed tail in the Bible... The beastie is about as pagan as Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny. -Jeremy... Who quit his job last Thursday to go to Bible college... -- FreeBSD - Because the best things in life are free... http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 12:32:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF4037B404 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:32:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110C543E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:32:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0242.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.242] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188ntj-00008j-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:32:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC6D916.EE5B85DC@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:31:18 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cliff Sarginson Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <20021104135214.GA2501@raggedclown.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Cliff Sarginson wrote: > Maybe FreeBSD, as well as supporting multi-lingualism should support > alternative beliefs .. you know a home page for Christians, Druids, > etc... where will it end ? I respect people's beliefs, I even have a few > of them myself. There are doubtless many devout people who are users of > FreeBSD, and while they may find Beastie distasteful they just ignore > it. Speaking of which, the fact that the daemon has 3 fingers instead of 4 is probably offensive to the Japanese market. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 12:34:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 696B237B401; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:34:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE90043E3B; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:34:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0242.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.242] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188nvS-0003BQ-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:34:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC6D981.F179C11D@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:33:05 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: Juli Mallett , Paul Everlund , JT32255@aol.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <3DC684AE.9B56BE4E@ene.asda.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > I think you are missing the whole point here. Let me make it a little > more clear to you. Suppose we ask this question to two different types > of people "Hey, what do you think about Beastie? What does it remind you > of?" and show them Beastie. First group is FreeBSD users or users that > know this litle cute, and as you claim "daemon", second group is the the > wide majority of people that know nothing about PCs and hardly even use > Windblows. I wonder what do u think each group will respond to this > question? Group 1: "OH! It's the BSD Daemon! How Cute!" Group 2: "Why is it wearing tennis shoes?" -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 12:42:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB3537B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B7D43E4A for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0242.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.242] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188o2v-0000Wd-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:42:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC6DB51.C0C18AEF@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:40:49 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? References: <20021102095754.GA19456@marvin.bsdng.org> <20021104162617.GB38286@tara.freenix.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Kyle Martin: > > 5.Doh! with a new beastie mascot pic found at: > > If you want a mascot, take this then: > > > > (drawing made for BSDCon Europe although that one is wearing even less) > > (B. Bellamy is a well known french comic artist, drawing his models in > several magazines -- including Linux ones) Looks like a World War II B-52 bomber logo. Probably offensive to Nazis... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 12:46: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D9937B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail12.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9316643E4A for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:46:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 9433 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 20:46:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail12.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 4 Nov 2002 20:46:11 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Kjun5045952; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:45:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3DC6DB51.C0C18AEF@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:45:58 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Cc: chat@freebsd.org, Ollivier Robert Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 04-Nov-2002 Terry Lambert wrote: > Ollivier Robert wrote: >> According to Kyle Martin: >> > 5.Doh! with a new beastie mascot pic found at: >> >> If you want a mascot, take this then: >> >> >> >> (drawing made for BSDCon Europe although that one is wearing even less) >> >> (B. Bellamy is a well known french comic artist, drawing his models in >> several magazines -- including Linux ones) > > Looks like a World War II B-52 bomber logo. Probably offensive > to Nazis... B-29 or some such maybe. The first B-52's were built in the 50's. AFAIK the US didn't have jet-powered bombers during WWII. I think the first jet-powered fighters were used in the Korean War to counter Mig's. (Putting on my history-channel watching hat.) -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 12:46:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C19D737B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F26E43E75 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:46:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0242.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.242] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188o6o-0007JZ-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:46:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC6DC42.A3AC60BF@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:44:50 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why use a daemon as a symbol since it alienates many.... References: <01f801c28424$06be5060$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We should switch to an alien as a logo. Then people could complain more: "Why use an alien as a symbol since it daemonates many?" -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:11:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F46F37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:11:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6541443E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:11:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 345662A96; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:11:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:11:15 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021104211115.GA40027@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <3DC6DB51.C0C18AEF@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to John Baldwin: > B-29 or some such maybe. The first B-52's were built in the 50's. > AFAIK the US didn't have jet-powered bombers during WWII. I think > the first jet-powered fighters were used in the Korean War to > counter Mig's. (Putting on my history-channel watching hat.) Even B-29 were not that much used during WWII, most of the big US bombers were B-17 (Flying Fortress). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:17:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F88437B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135C943E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0242.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.242] helo=mindspring.com) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188obU-0000fv-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:17:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC6E3A9.AC495ED1@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:16:25 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? References: <3DC6DB51.C0C18AEF@mindspring.com> <20021104211115.GA40027@tara.freenix.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to John Baldwin: > > B-29 or some such maybe. The first B-52's were built in the 50's. > > AFAIK the US didn't have jet-powered bombers during WWII. I think > > the first jet-powered fighters were used in the Korean War to > > counter Mig's. (Putting on my history-channel watching hat.) > > Even B-29 were not that much used during WWII, most of the big US bombers > were B-17 (Flying Fortress). The Enola Gay was a B-29. The original posting was a joke, anyway. Ugh. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:18:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3E537B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:18:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (gdead.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C815543E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:18:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: from mooseriver.com (h-66-166-146-73.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.146.73]) by gdead.mooseriver.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA4LIGTn039588; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:18:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA4LIACj099450; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:18:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:18:10 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Terry Lambert Cc: Cliff Sarginson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104211810.GA99075@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <20021104135214.GA2501@raggedclown.net> <3DC6D916.EE5B85DC@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DC6D916.EE5B85DC@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 12:31:18PM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > Cliff Sarginson wrote: > > Maybe FreeBSD, as well as supporting multi-lingualism should support > > alternative beliefs .. you know a home page for Christians, Druids, > > etc... where will it end ? I respect people's beliefs, I even have a few > > of them myself. There are doubtless many devout people who are users of > > FreeBSD, and while they may find Beastie distasteful they just ignore > > it. > > Speaking of which, the fact that the daemon has 3 fingers instead of > 4 is probably offensive to the Japanese market. 8-). Ummmm, Can you explain why ? Josef -- == Copyright(c) 2002 by Josef Grosch. All rights reserved. == == == Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.6.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:22:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A7B437B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF93F43E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:22:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 1B4B42A96; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:22:18 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:22:18 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021104212218.GA40144@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org References: <3DC6DB51.C0C18AEF@mindspring.com> <20021104211115.GA40027@tara.freenix.org> <3DC6E3A9.AC495ED1@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DC6E3A9.AC495ED1@mindspring.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Terry Lambert: > > Even B-29 were not that much used during WWII, most of the big US bombers > > were B-17 (Flying Fortress). > > The Enola Gay was a B-29. Yes. I didn't want to mention it in front of our japanese friends though. > The original posting was a joke, anyway. Ugh. I know :) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:24:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2481037B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:24:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpb.ha-net.ptd.net (smtpb.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E04343E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:24:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tms2@mail.ptd.net) Received: (qmail 11962 invoked by uid 50005); 4 Nov 2002 21:06:37 -0000 Received: from tms2@mail.ptd.net by smtpb.ha-net.ptd.net by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4231. spamassassin: 2.31. Clear:. Processed in 0.869298 secs); 04 Nov 2002 21:06:37 -0000 Received: from du211046.cli.ptd.net (HELO mail.ptd.net) ([204.186.211.46]) (envelope-sender ) by smtpb.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 Nov 2002 21:06:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3DC6E578.EE0B48D4@mail.ptd.net> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:24:08 -0500 From: "T.M. Sommers" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Baldwin wrote: > > On 04-Nov-2002 Terry Lambert wrote: > > Ollivier Robert wrote: > >> According to Kyle Martin: > >> > 5.Doh! with a new beastie mascot pic found at: > >> > >> If you want a mascot, take this then: > >> > >> > >> > >> (drawing made for BSDCon Europe although that one is wearing even less) > >> > >> (B. Bellamy is a well known french comic artist, drawing his models in > >> several magazines -- including Linux ones) > > > > Looks like a World War II B-52 bomber logo. Probably offensive > > to Nazis... > > B-29 or some such maybe. The first B-52's were built in the 50's. > AFAIK the US didn't have jet-powered bombers during WWII. I think > the first jet-powered fighters were used in the Korean War to > counter Mig's. (Putting on my history-channel watching hat.) The Germans had the Me-262 during the war, but fortunately misused it so that it didn't wipe the skies clear of Allied aircraft. The Americans and British had jets under development during the war, but they did not become operational until 1946 or thereabouts. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:24:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE52E37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:24:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rhadamanth.submonkey.net (pc1-cdif2-4-cust210.cdf.cable.ntl.com [80.4.10.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D69A43E4A for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:24:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by rhadamanth.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.10) id 188oi4-00022O-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:24:36 +0000 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:24:36 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Josef Grosch Cc: Terry Lambert , Cliff Sarginson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? Message-ID: <20021104212436.GA7737@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Josef Grosch , Terry Lambert , Cliff Sarginson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <20021104135214.GA2501@raggedclown.net> <3DC6D916.EE5B85DC@mindspring.com> <20021104211810.GA99075@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021104211810.GA99075@mooseriver.com> X-message-flag: All your linuxconf-configured redhat are belong to us. X-message-flag-attribution: suresh, sdm. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 01:18:10PM -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 12:31:18PM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Speaking of which, the fact that the daemon has 3 fingers instead of > > 4 is probably offensive to the Japanese market. 8-). > > Ummmm, Can you explain why ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/720419.stm Ceri -- The blood of my ancestors have come! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:36: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139AA37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B6B43E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:36:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0242.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.242] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188ot5-0003Sk-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:35:59 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC6E7E9.7820AA05@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:34:33 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Cc: Cliff Sarginson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <20021104135214.GA2501@raggedclown.net> <3DC6D916.EE5B85DC@mindspring.com> <20021104211810.GA99075@mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Josef Grosch wrote: > > Speaking of which, the fact that the daemon has 3 fingers instead of > > 4 is probably offensive to the Japanese market. 8-). > > Ummmm, Can you explain why ? 1) Cultural bias against physical deformity (see the movie "Rising Sun"). 2) Negative association with reputed Yakuza practice which involved the number of fingers one had before and after joining and/or failing a superior. When Whistle was first selling InterJets into Japan, and had entered into a partnership with NTT, NTT made Whistle change the appearance of the various agents for cultural reasons (the original agents had no facial features, and U.S. "cartoon hands", which are 3-fingers and a thumb). My personal preference would have been Anime-style images. It avoids the facial features problem by giving the images "Bubblegum Crisis" style masks. 8-). FWIW, there seems to be no problem with the BSD daemon, which in Japanese terms be, I think, considered an Oni (demon), from which there are not a lot of negative connotations, particularly after TAKAHSHI Rumiko's "Uresai Yatsura" series about the Oni (alien) "Lum", who was portrayed as an attractive young woman in love with a human young man named "Ataru Moroboshi" (a pun in Japanese, meaning "to be hit on the head by a falling star). She was the precursor to the Pokeman "Pika-chu" (IMO - ability to electically shock, etc.), which was a blatant rip-off. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:45:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F007D37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:45:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FBD143E6E for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:45:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0242.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.242] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188p2A-0002zX-00; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:45:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC6EA1B.7598D587@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:43:55 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ceri Davies Cc: Josef Grosch , Cliff Sarginson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? References: <11.162dca8.2af6b3fa@aol.com> <3DC55F74.4000403@cs.umu.se> <3DC62FAF.9053A5F8@ene.asda.gr> <20021104024422.A6945@FreeBSD.org> <20021104135214.GA2501@raggedclown.net> <3DC6D916.EE5B85DC@mindspring.com> <20021104211810.GA99075@mooseriver.com> <20021104212436.GA7737@submonkey.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ceri Davies wrote: > On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 01:18:10PM -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 12:31:18PM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Speaking of which, the fact that the daemon has 3 fingers instead of > > > 4 is probably offensive to the Japanese market. 8-). > > > > Ummmm, Can you explain why ? > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/720419.stm Despite the article's claim that it's the producers of the material being two sensitive, changing the image of the InterJet agents was actually a contract demand by NTT. So even though the article tries to paint the market as being more tolerant than it's being given credit for, the reality is that the market forced the change, at least for the InterJet. I would think that the "Bob The Builder" controversy could have been handled by filming a zero'th episode, in which he loses the fingers in a horrible shop accident, teaching the children the importance of safe behaviour around power tools, particularly joiners, but I'm guessing that that would be too scary, as well, even if it explained the lack... 8-) 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 13:57:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F8437B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail14.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0313243E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:57:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 28300 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 21:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail14.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 4 Nov 2002 21:57:29 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4LvJn5046188; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:57:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3DC6E578.EE0B48D4@mail.ptd.net> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:57:21 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: "T.M. Sommers" Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 04-Nov-2002 T.M. Sommers wrote: > John Baldwin wrote: >> >> On 04-Nov-2002 Terry Lambert wrote: >> > Ollivier Robert wrote: >> >> According to Kyle Martin: >> >> > 5.Doh! with a new beastie mascot pic found at: >> >> >> >> If you want a mascot, take this then: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> (drawing made for BSDCon Europe although that one is wearing even less) >> >> >> >> (B. Bellamy is a well known french comic artist, drawing his models in >> >> several magazines -- including Linux ones) >> > >> > Looks like a World War II B-52 bomber logo. Probably offensive >> > to Nazis... >> >> B-29 or some such maybe. The first B-52's were built in the 50's. >> AFAIK the US didn't have jet-powered bombers during WWII. I think >> the first jet-powered fighters were used in the Korean War to >> counter Mig's. (Putting on my history-channel watching hat.) > > The Germans had the Me-262 during the war, but fortunately misused it so > that it didn't wipe the skies clear of Allied aircraft. The Americans > and British had jets under development during the war, but they did not > become operational until 1946 or thereabouts. Yes, I should have clarified the last to say "..the first [US] jet-powered fighters were used [in action] in.." -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 14:18:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4E1537B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from pogo.caustic.org (caustic.org [64.163.147.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E09A43E42 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Received: from localhost (jan@localhost) by pogo.caustic.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA4MHQF17107; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:17:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:17:26 -0800 (PST) From: "f.johan.beisser" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Ceri Davies , Josef Grosch , Cliff Sarginson , Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-Reply-To: <3DC6EA1B.7598D587@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021104141309.J30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > I would think that the "Bob The Builder" controversy could > have been handled by filming a zero'th episode, in which he > loses the fingers in a horrible shop accident, teaching the > children the importance of safe behaviour around power tools, > particularly joiners, but I'm guessing that that would be too > scary, as well, even if it explained the lack... 8-) 8-). depends on the target market. some of the manga and "cartoons" i've seen are fairly graphic, and still oriented at "children" of a sort. i would be rather entertained by that episode. makes me think of emo philips in _UHF_. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan@caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 4 19: 5:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9742D37B401 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1nova.com (heorot.1nova.com [63.105.24.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D6AF43E3B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:05:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@heorot.1nova.com) Received: by 1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 71C8B18FA; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by 1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6906A18F8 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:09:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:09:33 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why Use a Daemon as a Symbol since it alienates many? In-Reply-To: <20021104084352.X2225-100000@moo.sysabend.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Maybe they should, maybe they should not use some therapist. The point > > is that this is the majority of them and yes maybe Windblows is the real > > evil thing, still, the fact _IS_ that it is used to more than 90% of the > > PCs worldwide. FreeBSD, or even the most other well known OS, linux, > > _ARE NOT_. According to you and me they may need therapy, BUT that is > > You're missing the basic point that no one here cares what the unwashed > masses think of the BSD daemon. I care!... Er... no I don't.... Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 4:29: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E887637B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 04:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from lmail.actcom.co.il (mail.actcom.co.il [192.114.47.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CFB43E6E for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 04:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from usey@actcom.co.il) Received: from usey.org (usey.org [192.117.97.45]) by lmail.actcom.co.il (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA5CSfb25465; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:28:43 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Ya'ad Golani" To: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:28:11 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200211051428.11650.usey@actcom.co.il> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, I have a question there.=20 are you a representative of the project in any way or manner? I mean, ar= e the=20 names some of us have just suggested will even be considered, and -- sinc= e=20 when does we use a marketing name anyway? think you owe us a lil'=20 background explanations regarding to this (sort of meaningful) event. :-) my creativity ain't at it's best today, but "Tight" sounds kinda' cool, o= r=20 ``Jerusalem'' if you can never have enough of politics. *Chuckles* =20 On Saturday 02 November 2002 00:02, Julian Elischer wrote: > SO ok, we need a good marketting name for 5.0.. > > Off the top of my head FreeBSD 5.0 "banana" :-) > slug, monkey, heffalump, peach, blender... :-) > > blackjack (It's a gamble) > tahoe, reno amd vegas are gone, but "silver city" is up for grabs :-) > > > p.s. while the names suggested are humourous I am very serious about > needing some name upon which we can hang some hoopla. > > Jaguar.. uh rats... > wolfpack, scout, vanguard.. > I dunno.. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message --=20 Best Regards,=20 Ya'ad Golani. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 5: 0: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A1837B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 04:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from iam.losingtime.net (12-232-220-15.client.attbi.com [12.232.220.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4684443E4A for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 04:59:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gm@iam.losingtime.net) Received: from kreutzer.dom (localhost.dom [127.0.0.1]) by iam.losingtime.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5D3A1a042471; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:03:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gm@kreutzer.dom) Received: (from gm@localhost) by kreutzer.dom (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA5D39mG042470; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:03:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:03:09 -0800 From: Geoff Morrison To: Julian Elischer Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021105130309.GA42413@kreutzer.dom> Mail-Followup-To: Julian Elischer , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 02:02:41PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > SO ok, we need a good marketting name for 5.0.. [snip] > tahoe, reno amd vegas are gone, but "silver city" is up for grabs :-) I'll hold out for FreeBSD 5.1 'Groom Lake', myself. -- Geoff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 10:47:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF79537B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4838143E3B for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([12.242.158.67]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021105184358.CSEO12815.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@localhost.localdomain> for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:43:58 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA5IieUY090347 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:44:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id gA54qHW7080112; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:52:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? References: <3DC6DB51.C0C18AEF@mindspring.com> <20021104211115.GA40027@tara.freenix.org> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 04 Nov 2002 20:52:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20021104211115.GA40027@tara.freenix.org> Message-ID: <88y988pqim.988@localhost.localdomain> Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ollivier Robert writes: > Even B-29 were not that much used during WWII, most of the big US bombers > were B-17 (Flying Fortress). The citizens of Tokyo who looked up to see more than 1000 B-29s over their city at once would probably think they WERE used "that" much. From Oct'44 onward, the horrors dropped on the cities of Japan by B-29s in the form of high explosives and incendiary bombs (eg, white phosphorus and Napalm) make some people consider the A-bombs humane by comparison. That part of history is too often hidden by the shadows of mushroom clouds. The B-29s were used over other Pacific islands too. Most of the big (AKA "heavy") bombers were B-24s (Liberators): B-17 12700 B-24 19200 B-29 4000 (some after WWII) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 11: 5:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C88FE37B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:05:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (gdead.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25CDB43E4A for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:05:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: from mooseriver.com (h-66-166-146-73.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.146.73]) by gdead.mooseriver.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA5J5MTn057163; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:05:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA5J5G58012803; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:05:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:05:16 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021105190516.GA12623@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <3DC6DB51.C0C18AEF@mindspring.com> <20021104211115.GA40027@tara.freenix.org> <88y988pqim.988@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <88y988pqim.988@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 08:52:17PM -0800, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Ollivier Robert writes: > > > Even B-29 were not that much used during WWII, most of the big US bombers > > were B-17 (Flying Fortress). > > The citizens of Tokyo who looked up to see more than 1000 B-29s over > their city at once would probably think they WERE used "that" much. > From Oct'44 onward, the horrors dropped on the cities of Japan by B-29s > in the form of high explosives and incendiary bombs (eg, white > phosphorus and Napalm) make some people consider the A-bombs humane by > comparison. That part of history is too often hidden by the shadows of > mushroom clouds. True. More people were killed in the fire bombing of Dresden (130,000) than in all the people who died Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. 66,000 and 39,000 respectively. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 12:31: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D17837B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9A843E42 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:30:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0104.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.104] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 189ALD-0001lI-00; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:30:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC82A17.506BDE2@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:29:11 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geoff Morrison Cc: Julian Elischer , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? References: <20021105130309.GA42413@kreutzer.dom> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Geoff Morrison wrote: > On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 02:02:41PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > SO ok, we need a good marketting name for 5.0.. > [snip] > > tahoe, reno amd vegas are gone, but "silver city" is up for grabs :-) > > I'll hold out for FreeBSD 5.1 'Groom Lake', myself. "Spruce Goose". -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 12:46:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB4337B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (gdead.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB0643E42 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:46:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: from mooseriver.com (h-66-166-146-73.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.146.73]) by gdead.mooseriver.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA5KkFTn058976; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:46:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA5Kk9B0013969; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:46:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:46:09 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Terry Lambert Cc: Geoff Morrison , Julian Elischer , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021105204609.GB13876@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <20021105130309.GA42413@kreutzer.dom> <3DC82A17.506BDE2@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DC82A17.506BDE2@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 12:29:11PM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > Geoff Morrison wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 02:02:41PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > SO ok, we need a good marketting name for 5.0.. > > [snip] > > > tahoe, reno amd vegas are gone, but "silver city" is up for grabs :-) > > > > I'll hold out for FreeBSD 5.1 'Groom Lake', myself. > > "Spruce Goose". I don't know, Terry. IIRC the Spruce Goose never flew. Is there a hidden message here? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 13:58: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5448237B404 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:58:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D36D43E4A for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:57:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([12.242.158.67]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021105215758.EOKL1928.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@localhost.localdomain>; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:57:58 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA5LwdUW093256; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:58:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id gA5LwSIU093251; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:58:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Cc: Terry Lambert , Geoff Morrison , Julian Elischer , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? References: <20021105130309.GA42413@kreutzer.dom> <3DC82A17.506BDE2@mindspring.com> <20021105204609.GB13876@mooseriver.com> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 05 Nov 2002 13:58:28 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20021105204609.GB13876@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: <47lm47ptkr.m47@localhost.localdomain> Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't know, Terry. IIRC the Spruce Goose never flew. From http://www.sprucegoose.org/spruceGoose.t?request=A%20Brief%20History On November 2, 1947, Howard Hughes and a small engineering crew fired up the R-4360s for taxi tests and thrilled thousands of on-lookers with an unannounced flight. With Howard Hughes at the controls, the Flying Boat lifted 70 feet off the water, and flew one mile in less than a minute at a top speed of 80 miles per hour before making a perfect landing. In 1992-3, it was barged up to it's current home at an Aero-museum about 35 miles SW of Portland, OR. See http://www.sprucegoose.org There's another, larger, Aero-museum an hour or so further west in Tillimook, OR, on the wonderful Oregon Coast. See http://www.nastillamook.org/index.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 14:34:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59AA537B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6854E43E42 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:34:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA5MYos07567; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:34:50 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gA5MYos27662; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:34:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by -i (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA5MYju27637; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:34:46 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DC84780.8060002@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:34:40 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "FreeBSD as a Desktop" heh, heh.... References: <20021104101519.I57495-100000@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Dillon wrote: > On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Eric Anderson wrote: > > >>Chris Dillon wrote: >> >>>The newest NVidia cards work fine with FreeBSD's XFree86 port. I >>>created a patchset for XFree86 that added support for the newest cards >>>to the nv driver which was added to the XFree86 port on August 5. >>>You have to either build XFree86 from the ports, or use >>>FreeBSD.org-built binaries made after that date. The >>>XFree86.org-built binaries will not have any improvements incorporated >>>in them after the day that particular version of XFree86 was released. >> >>I'm running 4.7-RELEASE, shouldn't that be new enough? > > > I would think so. I see the patches in the port, I hope they actually > get put into the binary packages. Do you have a particular card that > isn't working? If so, paste the relevant portion of pciconf -l -v > output. On my notebook: none1@pci1:0:0: class=0x030000 card=0x00e41028 chip=0x011210de rev=0xb2 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Nvidia Corporation' device = 'GeForce2 MX Ultra [NV11]' class = display subclass = VGA and on my desktop: none1@pci1:0:0: class=0x030000 card=0x87831462 chip=0x017210de rev=0xa3 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Nvidia Corporation' device = 'GeForce4 MX 420 [NV17.3]' class = display subclass = VGA Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 15:35:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8908D37B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0308243E3B for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:35:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: by testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9B25D1AAE9; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:35:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96ABC1A947; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:35:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:35:30 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "FreeBSD as a Desktop" heh, heh.... In-Reply-To: <3DC84780.8060002@centtech.com> Message-ID: <20021105172803.H5190-100000@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Eric Anderson wrote: > Chris Dillon wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Eric Anderson wrote: > > > > > >>Chris Dillon wrote: > >> > >>>The newest NVidia cards work fine with FreeBSD's XFree86 port. I > >>>created a patchset for XFree86 that added support for the newest cards > >>>to the nv driver which was added to the XFree86 port on August 5. > >>>You have to either build XFree86 from the ports, or use > >>>FreeBSD.org-built binaries made after that date. The > >>>XFree86.org-built binaries will not have any improvements incorporated > >>>in them after the day that particular version of XFree86 was released. > >> > >>I'm running 4.7-RELEASE, shouldn't that be new enough? > > > > > > I would think so. I see the patches in the port, I hope they actually > > get put into the binary packages. Do you have a particular card that > > isn't working? If so, paste the relevant portion of pciconf -l -v > > output. > > On my notebook: > none1@pci1:0:0: class=0x030000 card=0x00e41028 chip=0x011210de rev=0xb2 > hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'Nvidia Corporation' > device = 'GeForce2 MX Ultra [NV11]' > class = display > subclass = VGA I didn't add that PCI ID for some reason. I'm not sure what it would take to get that one to work but it might be just as easy as the rest. > and on my desktop: > none1@pci1:0:0: class=0x030000 card=0x87831462 chip=0x017210de rev=0xa3 > hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'Nvidia Corporation' > device = 'GeForce4 MX 420 [NV17.3]' > class = display > subclass = VGA This one is in there. If the card is not being detected at all and the nv driver isn't even trying to drive it, then the patch is not present for some reason. Try compiling XFree86-4 totally from a recent ports collection. If it IS being attached to the nv driver when you run XFree86 and it just doesn't work, then there is another problem. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon(at)wolves.k12.mo.us FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32 (Intel x86) and Alpha architectures - IA64, PowerPC, UltraSPARC, ARM, and S/390 under development - http://www.freebsd.org No trees were harmed in the composition of this message, although some electrons were mildly inconvenienced. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 16:31:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D5237B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:31:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-send.myrealbox.com (smtp-send.myrealbox.com [192.108.102.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD1B43E91 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:31:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nmace@myrealbox.com) Received: from 172.16.37.16 nmace@smtp-send.myrealbox.com [12.4.161.99] by smtp-send.myrealbox.com with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 3.14 $ on Novell NetWare; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:31:34 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:33:36 -0500 From: Nathan Mace X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60c) Personal Reply-To: Nathan Mace X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Does this exist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org first of all, I'm not sure this is the proper place to be asking this, however as far as i know this mailing list isn't restricted to a particular subject except FreeBSD in general. that said, my question is this: Are there any open source projects out there that are working on making a slim OS that will boot off of a CD, load itself into memory and run from completely within RAM, and never touch a hard drive.......now i know there are...there are several "live" Linux CD's which do this but let me finish my question.........are there any that can do this, and are aimed at firewall's? as cheap as RAM for PC's is now, why couldn't a company afford to buy say 512* megs of ram and have a firewall that runs totally in ram and boots from a CD-R? think about that for a second. if system got comprised, what could the "bad guy" do? he couldn't install anything that would last because as soon as the sys-admin discovered he was there, they could re-boot the machine, and since it boots off of a read-only "hard drive" you know that it hasn't been comprised, and the ram that it uses for a temporary hard drive would be instantly formatted. granted if someone got in once they can do it again as soon as the machine was up and running again......but how is that any different than a machine that runs off of a hard drive? you would still have to wait on an update or patch. and if you had this in a production environment you could have a dedicated machine running FreeBSD and when the patch came out you could install the patch to that box, and then burn a new image that was created from that OS and boom. your firewall is not upgraded i know that there are several Linux distro's that provide "live" cd's, but is there anything out there that provides the functionality I've described, be it FreeBSD or not? *NOTE: 512 megs was just an example. i have no idea how much ram would be needed. also, can you please CC any replies to me. I'm not a member of the mailing list -- Nathan mailto:nmace@myrealbox.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 16:40:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D2B37B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (12-232-206-8.client.attbi.com [12.232.206.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD2F43E3B for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:40:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA71412; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:37:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:37:19 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Nathan Mace Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Does this exist? In-Reply-To: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org yes.. check out tinyBSD.. cut-down FreeBSD... loads from a floppy into RAM ideal for routers, firewalls etc. On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Nathan Mace wrote: > first of all, I'm not sure this is the proper place to be asking this, > however as far as i know this mailing list isn't restricted to a > particular subject except FreeBSD in general. > > that said, my question is this: > > Are there any open source projects out there that are working on > making a slim OS that will boot off of a CD, load itself into memory > and run from completely within RAM, and never touch a hard > drive.......now i know there are...there are several "live" Linux CD's which > do this but let me finish my question.........are there any that can > do this, and are aimed at firewall's? > > as cheap as RAM for PC's is now, why couldn't a company afford to buy > say 512* megs of ram and have a firewall that runs totally in ram and > boots from a CD-R? think about that for a second. if system got > comprised, what could the "bad guy" do? he couldn't install anything that > would last because as soon as the sys-admin discovered he was there, > they could re-boot the machine, and since it boots off of a read-only > "hard drive" you know that it hasn't been comprised, and the ram that > it uses for a temporary hard drive would be instantly formatted. granted if > someone got in once they can do it again as soon as the machine was up > and running again......but how is that any different than a machine > that runs off of a hard drive? you would still have to wait on an > update or patch. and if you had this in a production environment you > could have a dedicated machine running FreeBSD and when the patch came > out you could install the patch to that box, and then burn a new image > that was created from that OS and boom. your firewall is not upgraded > > i know that there are several Linux distro's that provide "live" cd's, > but is there anything out there that provides the functionality I've > described, be it FreeBSD or not? > > *NOTE: 512 megs was just an example. i have no idea how much ram > would be needed. > > also, can you please CC any replies to me. I'm not a member of the > mailing list > > > -- > Nathan mailto:nmace@myrealbox.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 16:48:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7815837B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rhadamanth.submonkey.net (pc1-cdif2-4-cust210.cdf.cable.ntl.com [80.4.10.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB3D43E4A for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:48:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by rhadamanth.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.10) id 189ENA-00037S-00; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:48:44 +0000 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 00:48:44 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Nathan Mace Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Does this exist? Message-ID: <20021106004844.GA11961@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Nathan Mace , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> X-message-flag: All your linuxconf-configured redhat are belong to us. X-message-flag-attribution: suresh, sdm. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 07:33:36PM -0500, Nathan Mace wrote: > Are there any open source projects out there that are working on > making a slim OS that will boot off of a CD, load itself into memory > and run from completely within RAM, and never touch a hard > drive.......now i know there are...there are several "live" Linux CD's which > do this but let me finish my question.........are there any that can > do this, and are aimed at firewall's? http://www.netboz.net/ Ceri -- Face the vengeance of the Dwarf Father! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 19: 4:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A398037B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:04:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB88143E42 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:04:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.226.134] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id A6372DA90202; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:02:15 -0600 Message-ID: <001601c28540$f8ad8e00$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "Nathan Mace" , References: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> Subject: Re: Does this exist? Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:02:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wouldn't picobsd be appropriate? In the ports, built-in manpages and documentation, etc. Built to fit on a floppy, I think it would run on CD mounted r/o as well, wouldn't it? If you're already knowledgeable in FBSD, you'd only have to brush up on a little stuff to make it work, and if it's that small, you could run it on a 486 with 16MB EDO...... maybe..... Kevin Kinsey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Mace" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:33 PM Subject: Does this exist? > first of all, I'm not sure this is the proper place to be asking this, > however as far as i know this mailing list isn't restricted to a > particular subject except FreeBSD in general. > > that said, my question is this: > > Are there any open source projects out there that are working on > making a slim OS that will boot off of a CD, load itself into memory > and run from completely within RAM, and never touch a hard > drive.......now i know there are...there are several "live" Linux CD's which > do this but let me finish my question.........are there any that can > do this, and are aimed at firewall's? > > as cheap as RAM for PC's is now, why couldn't a company afford to buy > say 512* megs of ram and have a firewall that runs totally in ram and > boots from a CD-R? think about that for a second. if system got > comprised, what could the "bad guy" do? he couldn't install anything that > would last because as soon as the sys-admin discovered he was there, > they could re-boot the machine, and since it boots off of a read-only > "hard drive" you know that it hasn't been comprised, and the ram that > it uses for a temporary hard drive would be instantly formatted. granted if > someone got in once they can do it again as soon as the machine was up > and running again......but how is that any different than a machine > that runs off of a hard drive? you would still have to wait on an > update or patch. and if you had this in a production environment you > could have a dedicated machine running FreeBSD and when the patch came > out you could install the patch to that box, and then burn a new image > that was created from that OS and boom. your firewall is not upgraded > > i know that there are several Linux distro's that provide "live" cd's, > but is there anything out there that provides the functionality I've > described, be it FreeBSD or not? > > *NOTE: 512 megs was just an example. i have no idea how much ram > would be needed. > > also, can you please CC any replies to me. I'm not a member of the > mailing list > > > -- > Nathan mailto:nmace@myrealbox.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 5 23:23:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0F737B401 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pogo.caustic.org (caustic.org [64.163.147.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D7743E3B for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Received: from localhost (jan@localhost) by pogo.caustic.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA67NMv28323; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:23:21 -0800 (PST) From: "f.johan.beisser" To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: Nathan Mace , Subject: Re: Does this exist? In-Reply-To: <001601c28540$f8ad8e00$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> Message-ID: <20021105232141.H30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > Wouldn't picobsd be appropriate? In the ports, > built-in manpages and documentation, etc. > Built to fit on a floppy, I think it would run > on CD mounted r/o as well, wouldn't it? the last i'd looked at picobsd, it was broken. the last time i'd successfully built any of it was in FreeBSD 4.1. admittedly, i've not delt with it much since then. has it since been fixed? -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan@caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 6 0:50:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5284C37B401 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 00:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from crf-consulting.co.uk (pc-80-194-99-103-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [80.194.99.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5FA43E4A for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 00:50:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@crf-consulting.co.uk) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (clan.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.20]) by crf-consulting.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA68o2Tk049500; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:50:02 GMT (envelope-from nik@catkin) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clan.nothing-going-on.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA68o22x067460; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:50:02 GMT (envelope-from nik@clan.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by clan.nothing-going-on.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA68o1WX067459; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:50:01 GMT Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:50:01 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Nathan Mace Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Does this exist? Message-ID: <20021106085001.GD24888@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wTWi5aaYRw9ix9vO" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --wTWi5aaYRw9ix9vO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 07:33:36PM -0500, Nathan Mace wrote: > Are there any open source projects out there that are working on > making a slim OS that will boot off of a CD, load itself into memory > and run from completely within RAM, and never touch a hard > drive.......now i know there are...there are several "live" Linux CD's wh= ich > do this but let me finish my question.........are there any that can > do this, and are aimed at firewall's? http://www.closedbsd.org/ ClosedBSD is a firewall and network address translation utility which boots off of a single floppy disk or CDROM, and requires no hard drive. ClosedBSD is based off of the FreeBSD kernel, and uses ipfw as its native ruleset management system, and natd as it's network address translation utility. [...] N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) \/ \= ^ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/= _) --wTWi5aaYRw9ix9vO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9yNe4k6gHZCw343URAhmBAJ9lr+8zOrk345uJl4sxrdc9QhpdnACfXwbS I82BIabV9ji8bH7UCT7ZvJc= =D3ga -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wTWi5aaYRw9ix9vO-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 6 5:49:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C659137B401 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:49:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB3843E42 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA6DnBs27061; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:49:11 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gA6DnBU07981; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:49:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by -i (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA6Dn7u07974; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:49:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DC91DCB.80905@centtech.com> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:48:59 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "FreeBSD as a Desktop" heh, heh.... References: <20021105172803.H5190-100000@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Dillon wrote: [snip] >>On my notebook: >>none1@pci1:0:0: class=0x030000 card=0x00e41028 chip=0x011210de rev=0xb2 >>hdr=0x00 >> vendor = 'Nvidia Corporation' >> device = 'GeForce2 MX Ultra [NV11]' >> class = display >> subclass = VGA > > > I didn't add that PCI ID for some reason. I'm not sure what it would > take to get that one to work but it might be just as easy as the rest. Ok - it should work if the others work.. It would be awesome if it "just worked" like the rest of FreeBSD.. :) >>and on my desktop: >>none1@pci1:0:0: class=0x030000 card=0x87831462 chip=0x017210de rev=0xa3 >>hdr=0x00 >> vendor = 'Nvidia Corporation' >> device = 'GeForce4 MX 420 [NV17.3]' >> class = display >> subclass = VGA > > > This one is in there. If the card is not being detected at all and > the nv driver isn't even trying to drive it, then the patch is not > present for some reason. Try compiling XFree86-4 totally from a > recent ports collection. If it IS being attached to the nv driver > when you run XFree86 and it just doesn't work, then there is another > problem. It must be something else then, because XFree86 DID detect it and use the nv driver. It just never actually worked.. I did the standard --configure thing that has been working for me for other cards.. Any ideas? I'm sure I'm not the only one hitting this.. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 6 5:54:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF5C37B401 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from marvin.bsdng.org (24-159-234-52.jvl.wi.charter.com [24.159.234.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DCA543E8A for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:54:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkm@marvin.bsdng.org) Received: from marvin.bsdng.org (marvin [127.0.0.1]) by marvin.bsdng.org (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA6Ds3nn084694; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:54:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mkm@marvin.bsdng.org) Received: (from mkm@localhost) by marvin.bsdng.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA6Ds3xR084693; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:54:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:54:03 -0600 From: Kyle Martin To: Nathan Mace Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Does this exist? Message-ID: <20021106135403.GA82947@marvin.bsdng.org> References: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <119245048150.20021105193336@myrealbox.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 07:33:36PM -0500, Nathan Mace wrote: > Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:33:36 -0500 > From: Nathan Mace > To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Does this exist? > > first of all, I'm not sure this is the proper place to be asking this, > however as far as i know this mailing list isn't restricted to a > particular subject except FreeBSD in general. > > that said, my question is this: > > Are there any open source projects out there that are working on > making a slim OS that will boot off of a CD, load itself into memory > and run from completely within RAM, and never touch a hard > drive.......now i know there are...there are several "live" Linux CD's which > do this but let me finish my question.........are there any that can > do this, and are aimed at firewall's? > > as cheap as RAM for PC's is now, why couldn't a company afford to buy > say 512* megs of ram and have a firewall that runs totally in ram and > boots from a CD-R? think about that for a second. if system got > comprised, what could the "bad guy" do? he couldn't install anything that > would last because as soon as the sys-admin discovered he was there, > they could re-boot the machine, and since it boots off of a read-only > "hard drive" you know that it hasn't been comprised, and the ram that > it uses for a temporary hard drive would be instantly formatted. granted if > someone got in once they can do it again as soon as the machine was up > and running again......but how is that any different than a machine > that runs off of a hard drive? you would still have to wait on an > update or patch. and if you had this in a production environment you > could have a dedicated machine running FreeBSD and when the patch came > out you could install the patch to that box, and then burn a new image > that was created from that OS and boom. your firewall is not upgraded > picobsd(8) -- Kyle Martin mkm@ieee.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 6 6:16: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADC737B401 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 06:16:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0A0243E4A for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 06:16:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id D373C534E; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:15:59 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Cc: "Gary W. Swearingen" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? References: <3DC6DB51.C0C18AEF@mindspring.com> <20021104211115.GA40027@tara.freenix.org> <88y988pqim.988@localhost.localdomain> <20021105190516.GA12623@mooseriver.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:15:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20021105190516.GA12623@mooseriver.com> (Josef Grosch's message of "Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:05:16 -0800") Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Josef Grosch writes: > True. More people were killed in the fire bombing of Dresden (130,000) than > in all the people who died Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. 66,000 and > 39,000 respectively. Goes to show vitamins aren't necessarily good for you. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 6 8:35:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0656437B401 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta1-3.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-44.outblaze.com [205.158.62.44]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 14C9943E88 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:35:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johnphiri3@europe.com) Received: (qmail 891 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 15:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws1-10.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.111) by 205-158-62-44.outblaze.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 15:38:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 32103 invoked by uid 1001); 6 Nov 2002 15:38:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20021106153801.32102.qmail@mail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [213.39.30.10] by ws1-10.us4.outblaze.com with http for johnphiri3@europe.com; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:38:01 -0500 From: "john .p matongo" To: johnphiri3@europe.com Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:38:01 -0500 Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE. X-Originating-Ip: 213.39.30.10 X-Originating-Server: ws1-10.us4.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Sir\Madam. With warm heart I offer my friendship, and my greetings, and I hope this letter meets you in good time. It will be surprising to you to receive this proposal from me since you do not know me personally.However, I am sincerely seeking your confidence in this transaction, which I propose with my free mind and as a person of integrity. My name is John Ndlovu phiri, the son of Phiri Matongo, a farmer from Zimbabwe,murdered in the land dispute in my country. As led by my instict, I decided to contact you through email, after searching for contacts via the internet, as it is the only means I can contact any body since I am cutting off ties with Zimbabwe for security and safety reasons. However, I apologize if this is not acceptable to you. The purpose of this letter is to seek your most needed assistance in a business venture. Due to the the land and political problems in Zimbabwe, as a result of President Robert Mugabe's introduction of new Land Act Reform wholly affecting the rich white farmers and the few rich black farmers, and his desire to hold on to power for life, my father for saw the danger that came in Zimbabwe. Before he was murdered, he withdrew all of our business foreign accounts in dollars and sold up our shares in major companies. We then went to Johannesburg, South Africa to deposit the sum of US$10.5 million (Ten million, Five Hundred thousand US dollars), in a private security company. This money was deposited with this Private Security company for safety and security reasons, and was to be used for the purchase of land, new machines and chemicals,for establishment of new farms in Botswana. President Mugabe's support for the violent Zimbabwean war veterans and some lunatics in the society, led to the murder of my beloved father and other innocent lives. I was continually threatened to abandon my inheritance from my father after he was murdered. I resited for a while, but when the danger became unbearable, and I survived two murder attempts, I fled Zimbabwe. I am currently staying in the Netherlands where I am seeking political asylum.In fact my decision to come here to seek asylum, is because the security company from South Africa, has a branch here, and they have moved the deposit from their office in Johannesburg to here in Netherlands . I need to transfer this money to an account and invest part of the money. Since the law of Netherlands prohibits a refugee (asylum seeker) to open any bank account or to be involved in any financial transaction, this is why I am seeking a genuine and reliable partner, whose account this money can be transferred, hence this proposal to you. You have to understand that this decision taken by me entrusts my future and in your hands, as a result of the safe keeping of this money. If you accept to assist me, all I want you to do for me, is to assist with arrangements to claim the deposit from the security company from their office here in The Netherlands, as it has now been transfered from Johannesburg, South Africa to their branch here.The company will be legally informed of you representing me. For your assistance, I have two options for you.Firstly you can choose to have 10% of the money for your assistance, and helping me open an account for the money to be deposited here, or you can go into partnership with me for the proper profitable investment of the money in your country. Which ever the option you want, please to notify me in your reply. I have also set aside 1%($150,000) of this money for all kinds of expenses that come our way in the process of this transaction, and 4% ($600,000) for Charity donation. If you prefer to accept the 10% for assisting with opening an account, then 85% will be left in the account here for me. Please, I want you to maintain the absolute secrecy for the purpose of this transaction. I look forward to your reply and co-operation, and I thank you in advance as I anticipate your co-operation. Sincerely, John p. Matongo.Tel-0031-61-5287959. Or please you cn call me this number. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Single & ready to mingle? lavalife.com: Where singles click. Free to Search! http://www.lavalife.com/mailcom.epl?a=2116 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 6 10:18:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2739F37B401 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:18:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8506C43E3B for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:18:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([12.242.158.67]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021106181848.LWYB6092.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@localhost.localdomain>; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:18:48 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA6IJOUW008241; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:19:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id gA6IJJoj008238; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:19:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: "f.johan.beisser" Cc: Subject: Re: Does this exist? References: <20021105232141.H30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 06 Nov 2002 10:19:19 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20021105232141.H30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "f.johan.beisser" writes: > the last i'd looked at picobsd, it was broken. the last time i'd > successfully built any of it was in FreeBSD 4.1. admittedly, i've not delt > with it much since then. > > has it since been fixed? Yes. For the OP: PicoBSD works fine off a floppy (probably CD too) in 20 MB RAM (probably 16 too). Quite easy to learn (from its manpage) and configure as a bridging or routing firewall. Don't bother with the pre-configured versions as they seemed harder to learn about than picoBSD was to configure. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 6 21: 0:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E6637B401 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C5443E3B for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 189elt-000Ow1-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:00:01 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gA75009l013410 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:00:01 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA7500YH013409 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:00:00 GMT Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:00:00 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: GNUstep still moving forward? Message-ID: <20021107050000.GB13365@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, it's apparently been quite a while since GNUstep really changed, or at least if it has changed, most of the changes seem to have been on the Apple front. Is it worth investigating GNUstep on FreeBSD? It seems to me that it offers a lot, with 2 issues, one minor, one major. First, it still seems to have some menu glitches when displaying on FreeBSD. Second, it seems like the skill set is difficult to find. If it's a personal project that's fine, but if it becomes necessary to drop an ad in the paper for an Objective C programmer, I can imagine there would be slim pickings. NOTE: Please CC me, as I am not currently subscribed. Thanks. jm -- My other computer is your windows box. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 9:44: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6118637B401 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (external.osdn.org.ua [212.40.34.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0719943E75 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:43:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (never@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7HgdTP090517; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:42:40 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: (from never@localhost) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA7HgWWo090516; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:42:32 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:42:32 +0200 From: Alexandr Kovalenko To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , stephan mantler , Julian Elischer , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [-current] -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021107174232.GA89111@nevermind.kiev.ua> References: <3DC30F70.3070007@acm.org> <009701c28200$40d3d2f0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <3DC31FDC.E41AF02B@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DC31FDC.E41AF02B@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Terry Lambert! On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 04:44:12PM -0800, you wrote: > > DANTE!!! > > SISPHYUS! No, it is the name for ALT Linux "ports" system. Maybe 'Pentium'? :) (fifth release) -- NEVE-RIPE Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group http://uafug.org.ua/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 10:12:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB1137B401 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236D743E42 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([12.242.158.67]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021107181220.IGGN3205.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@localhost.localdomain>; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:12:20 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA7ICnUW027044; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id gA7IChbW027041; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: Jonathon McKitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNUstep still moving forward? References: <20021107050000.GB13365@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:12:43 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20021107050000.GB13365@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: <9xel9xnt9g.l9x@localhost.localdomain> Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathon McKitrick writes: > Is it worth investigating GNUstep on FreeBSD? It seems to me that it offers > a lot, with 2 issues, one minor, one major. First, it still seems to have Two more issues, one minor, one major: It has "GNU" in the name and a nasty license. Investigate /usr/ports/devel/amulet (but see PR 43401). http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/amulet/www/amulet-home.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 10:12:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D2B37B401 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from clmboh1-smtp5.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp5.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A3743E4A for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jarnold@knightridder.com) Received: from jimarnold.org (a11d015.neo.rr.com [204.210.211.15]) by clmboh1-smtp5.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA7IClO10395 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:12:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.4] (mac [192.168.0.4]) by jimarnold.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23242369D for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:12:49 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jim@192.168.0.2 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:12:10 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Jim Arnold Subject: Problems with questions mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I can't post to the freebsd-questions@freebsd.org list any longer. I posted a question yesterday and it did not appear. Last week I posted a question. When it did not appear I unsubscribed from the list and re-subscribed. It still would not post. I've sent two emails to postmaster@FreeBSD.ORG asking for help and they have not been answered. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 10:28:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAAE37B401 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:28:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D796043E75 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:28:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.226.136] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id A06F59960232; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:26:55 -0600 Message-ID: <01bb01c2868b$48ecf4a0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: , "Jim Arnold" References: Subject: Re: Problems with questions mailing list Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:27:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Arnold" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:12 PM Subject: Problems with questions mailing list > I can't post to the freebsd-questions@freebsd.org list any longer. I > posted a question yesterday and it did not appear. Last week I posted > a question. When it did not appear I unsubscribed from the list and > re-subscribed. It still would not post. I've sent two emails to > postmaster@FreeBSD.ORG asking for help and they have not been > answered. > > Anyone have any ideas? > > Thanks > It's possible that the issue is as follows: #host knightridder.com knightridder.com has address 209.97.57.55 knightridder.com mail is handled (pri=10) by mail.knight-ridder.com knightridder.com mail is handled (pri=5) by mail1.knight-ridder.com #host 209.97.57.55 55.57.97.209.IN-ADDR.ARPA domain name pointer vh80116.vh8.infi.net I imagine that somewhere it's failing with a failure to match the ptr record with the domain of the sender address...... My guess, HTH, Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 12: 5:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AABAB37B401 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7671143E8A for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:05:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (rocky [192.168.0.2]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA7K4PO4070108 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:04:26 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3DCAC7A2.7010409@401.cx> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:05:54 +0100 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: cdrom.com data transfer record Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi list Some time ago I read some kind of announcement or article about cdrom.com and their FTP archive that broke some kind of record in amount of data transferred from a single machine in 24 hours. It even had a link to the ISP that explained about their network and their part in helping cdrom.com break this record. I seem to recall that part of what made the FTP archive break this record was the fact that a new version of Red Hat and Slackware was released on the same day. IIRC it was Red Hat 6.2, so it was a while ago. Does anyone have a link or reference to the article Im talking about? www.cdrom.com just redirects me to simtel.net, and I find absolutely nothing of value there. TIA -- R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 12:12:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 238AF37B64D for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (gdead.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDA943E91 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: from mooseriver.com ([66.166.146.73]) by gdead.mooseriver.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA7KC4Tn099484; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:12:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA7KAd6v028368; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:10:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:10:39 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cdrom.com data transfer record Message-ID: <20021107201039.GA28325@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <3DCAC7A2.7010409@401.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DCAC7A2.7010409@401.cx> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 09:05:54PM +0100, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > Hi list > > Some time ago I read some kind of announcement or article about > cdrom.com and their FTP archive that broke some kind of record in > amount of data transferred from a single machine in 24 hours. It > even had a link to the ISP that explained about their network and > their part in helping cdrom.com break this record. > I seem to recall that part of what made the FTP archive break > this record was the fact that a new version of Red Hat and > Slackware was released on the same day. IIRC it was Red Hat 6.2, > so it was a while ago. > > Does anyone have a link or reference to the article Im talking > about? www.cdrom.com just redirects me to simtel.net, and I find > absolutely nothing of value there. Yes, that happened on 24 May 1999. You can find the announcement at http://bafug.org/news/NewRecord.html Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 12:16: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A354F37B425 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:15:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98A143E4A for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:15:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.236.164] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id A9631E7D003E; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:13:23 -0600 Message-ID: <028a01c2869a$112b9670$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" , References: <3DCAC7A2.7010409@401.cx> Subject: Re: cdrom.com data transfer record Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:12:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:05 PM Subject: cdrom.com data transfer record > Hi list > > Some time ago I read some kind of announcement or article about > cdrom.com and their FTP archive that broke some kind of record in > amount of data transferred from a single machine in 24 hours. It > even had a link to the ISP that explained about their network and > their part in helping cdrom.com break this record. > I seem to recall that part of what made the FTP archive break > this record was the fact that a new version of Red Hat and > Slackware was released on the same day. IIRC it was Red Hat 6.2, > so it was a while ago. > > Does anyone have a link or reference to the article Im talking > about? www.cdrom.com just redirects me to simtel.net, and I find > absolutely nothing of value there. > > TIA > > -- > R > An anecdote of this type appears in some of the 'historical' material from the earlier days of the FBSD project. Don't know that it's what your looking for, though...... The link is at http://www.freebsd.org/news/press.html in the July 1998 section, but the page it ref's seems to be gone/moved.... Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 12:22:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730DD37B401 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D3243E7B for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:22:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 189t9c-00010J-00; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:21:28 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:21:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cdrom.com data transfer record In-Reply-To: <3DCAC7A2.7010409@401.cx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > Does anyone have a link or reference to the article Im talking > about? www.cdrom.com just redirects me to simtel.net, and I find > absolutely nothing of value there. I recall writing and publishing an article about this. A few greps later ... /home/backups/bsdtoday/REALSITE/data/2000/October/News296.ema http://www.bsdtoday.com/2000/October/News296.html should be it. Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ ps. Note I don't write for them anymore. I now write for http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/ instead. If anyone has any BSD news to share or wants to submit articles related to BSD for BSD Newsletter.com, please let me know. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 15:22:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0714F37B401 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from hardtime.linuxman.net (hardtime.linuxman.net [66.147.26.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0442B43E4A for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hardtime.linuxman.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA81IXk02672; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:18:36 -0600 Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 94B861F28; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:22:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:22:21 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Alexandr Kovalenko Cc: Terry Lambert , "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , stephan mantler , Julian Elischer , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [-current] -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021107232221.GA62085@over-yonder.net> References: <3DC30F70.3070007@acm.org> <009701c28200$40d3d2f0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <3DC31FDC.E41AF02B@mindspring.com> <20021107174232.GA89111@nevermind.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021107174232.GA89111@nevermind.kiev.ua> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 07:42:32PM +0200 I heard the voice of Alexandr Kovalenko, and lo! it spake thus: > > Maybe 'Pentium'? :) (fifth release) So the next release after 5.0 would be 5.099999834? -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 7 15:47:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A43E37B401 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A99F43E4A for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:47:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 189wNL-0008WW-00; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:47:51 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gA7Nlp9l078358; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:47:51 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA7NlogE078357; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:47:50 GMT Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:47:50 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNUstep still moving forward? Message-ID: <20021107234749.GA78302@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20021107050000.GB13365@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <9xel9xnt9g.l9x@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9xel9xnt9g.l9x@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 10:12:43AM -0800, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: | Jonathon McKitrick writes: | | > Is it worth investigating GNUstep on FreeBSD? It seems to me that it offers | > a lot, with 2 issues, one minor, one major. First, it still seems to have | | Two more issues, one minor, one major: It has "GNU" in the name and a | nasty license. Investigate /usr/ports/devel/amulet (but see PR 43401). | http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/amulet/www/amulet-home.html But one of the reasons I am intrigued by GNUstep is because of Objective-C, not just the libraries. jm -- My other computer is your Windows box. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 0:45:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4061437B401 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:45:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from Surfa.SineWave.com (surfa.SineWave.com [192.171.80.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC7A43E42 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cassiel@dis.org) Received: from loki.dis.org (d-0057.SineWave.com [192.171.82.57]) by Surfa.SineWave.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28656 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:45:38 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108002004.01bd31c0@dis.org> X-Sender: cassiel@dis.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 00:21:28 -0800 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Cassiel Subject: Re: [-current] -current marcketting name? In-Reply-To: <20021107232221.GA62085@over-yonder.net> References: <20021107174232.GA89111@nevermind.kiev.ua> <3DC30F70.3070007@acm.org> <009701c28200$40d3d2f0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <3DC31FDC.E41AF02B@mindspring.com> <20021107174232.GA89111@nevermind.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 15:22 11/7/2002, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 07:42:32PM +0200 I heard the voice of >Alexandr Kovalenko, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > Maybe 'Pentium'? :) (fifth release) > >So the next release after 5.0 would be 5.099999834? How many Pentium engineers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Three: One to hold the ladder, and one to screw in the lightbulb. Cassiel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 8:43:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C99837B401 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:43:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F200143E4A for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:43:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: by testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 83E621A951; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:43:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by testmail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EE51A947; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:43:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:43:21 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "FreeBSD as a Desktop" heh, heh.... In-Reply-To: <3DC91DCB.80905@centtech.com> Message-ID: <20021108104216.P63322-100000@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Eric Anderson wrote: > It must be something else then, because XFree86 DID detect it and use > the nv driver. It just never actually worked.. I did the standard > --configure thing that has been working for me for other cards.. > > Any ideas? I'm sure I'm not the only one hitting this.. Here's one... use NVidia's new driver for FreeBSD! Woohoo! :-) http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp -- Chris Dillon - cdillon(at)wolves.k12.mo.us FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32 (Intel x86) and Alpha architectures - IA64, PowerPC, UltraSPARC, ARM, and S/390 under development - http://www.freebsd.org No trees were harmed in the composition of this message, although some electrons were mildly inconvenienced. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 9:11:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7586737B401 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:11:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail19a.dulles19-verio.com (mail19a.dulles19-verio.com [161.58.134.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A10F43E42 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:11:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rob@pythonemproject.com) Received: from www.pythonemproject.com (198.104.176.109) by mail19a.dulles19-verio.com (RS ver 1.0.63s) with SMTP id 074158 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:11:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DCBEF52.94924A94@pythonemproject.com> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:07:30 -0800 From: Rob X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: [-current] -current marcketting name?/ Pentium engineers References: <20021107174232.GA89111@nevermind.kiev.ua> <3DC30F70.3070007@acm.org> <009701c28200$40d3d2f0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <3DC31FDC.E41AF02B@mindspring.com> <20021107174232.GA89111@nevermind.kiev.ua> <5.1.0.14.0.20021108002004.01bd31c0@dis.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Cassiel wrote: > > At 15:22 11/7/2002, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > >On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 07:42:32PM +0200 I heard the voice of > >Alexandr Kovalenko, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > > > Maybe 'Pentium'? :) (fifth release) > > > >So the next release after 5.0 would be 5.099999834? > > How many Pentium engineers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? > > Three: One to hold the ladder, and one to screw in the lightbulb. > > Cassiel > No, no, no :) One to build the pipeline, and three to shoot someone through it to fix the bulb. -- ----------------------------- The Numeric Python EM Project www.pythonemproject.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 9:32:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0381037B401; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:32:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896AB43E6E; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 18ACzk-000Eq2-00; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:32:36 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gA8HWZ9l082508; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:32:35 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA8HWZ75082507; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:32:35 GMT Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:32:35 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? Message-ID: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I just compiled a 'hello world' in objective c on a box with gcc but no GNUstep. I'm using the compile command as I found it in the tutorial. Any idea what I did wrong? thanks, jonathon dogma:...files/programs/objc> gcc -lobjc main.m printer.m -o testme main.m: In function `main': main.m:4: warning: return type of `main' is not `int' /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o: In function `main': /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o(.text+0x28): undefined reference to `objc_get_class' /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o(.text+0x33): undefined reference to `objc_msg_lookup' /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o(.text+0x4b): undefined reference to `objc_msg_lookup' /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o(.text+0x74): undefined reference to `objc_msg_lookup' /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o(.text+0xa3): undefined reference to `objc_msg_lookup' /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o(.text+0xd0): undefined reference to `objc_msg_lookup' /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o: In function `global constructors keyed to main': /tmp/ccgeR5Vc.o(.text+0xff): undefined reference to `__objc_exec_class' /tmp/ccBL0eLu.o: In function `_i_Printer__init': /tmp/ccBL0eLu.o(.text+0x26): undefined reference to `objc_msg_lookup_super' /tmp/ccBL0eLu.o(.text+0x4d): undefined reference to `objc_msg_lookup' /tmp/ccBL0eLu.o: In function `_i_Printer__print': /tmp/ccBL0eLu.o(.text+0xc6): undefined reference to `objc_msg_lookup' /tmp/ccBL0eLu.o: In function `global constructors keyed to printer.m5B2iAd': /tmp/ccBL0eLu.o(.text+0x11f): undefined reference to `__objc_exec_class' /tmp/ccBL0eLu.o(.rodata+0x8): undefined reference to `__objc_class_name_Object' dogma: NOTE: Please CC me, as I am not currently subscribed. Thanks. jm -- My other computer is your windows box. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 11:28:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A714937B401; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (mail.acns.ab.ca [142.179.151.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D093F43E3B; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:28:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8JQ6FG070399; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA8JQ63o070398; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:26:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:26:06 -0700 From: Chad David To: Jonathon McKitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? Message-ID: <20021108192606.GA70330@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mail-Followup-To: Jonathon McKitrick , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 05:32:35PM +0000, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > > Hi all, > I just compiled a 'hello world' in objective c on a box with gcc but no > GNUstep. I'm using the compile command as I found it in the tutorial. > > Any idea what I did wrong? Try: gcc -o testme main.m printer.m -lobjc > > thanks, > jonathon > > > dogma:...files/programs/objc> gcc -lobjc main.m printer.m -o testme > main.m: In function `main': > main.m:4: warning: return type of `main' is not `int' -- Chad David davidc@issci.ca www.FreeBSD.org davidc@freebsd.org ISSci Inc. Calgary, Alberta Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 11:42:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7A7F37B401 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2819843E42 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:42:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomifeh@earthlink.net) Received: from earthlink.net (bgp586692bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.202.147]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.5 (built Sep 23 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H59008ZGW22BZ@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:42:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:42:19 -0500 From: Larry Sica Subject: Re: [-current] -current marcketting name?/ Pentium engineers In-reply-to: <3DCBEF52.94924A94@pythonemproject.com> To: Rob Cc: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Message-id: <31598E5E-F352-11D6-9812-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 12:07 PM, Rob wrote: > Cassiel wrote: >> >> At 15:22 11/7/2002, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >>> On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 07:42:32PM +0200 I heard the voice of >>> Alexandr Kovalenko, and lo! it spake thus: >>>> >>>> Maybe 'Pentium'? :) (fifth release) >>> >>> So the next release after 5.0 would be 5.099999834? >> >> How many Pentium engineers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? >> >> Three: One to hold the ladder, and one to screw in the lightbulb. >> >> Cassiel >> > > No, no, no :) One to build the pipeline, and three to shoot someone > through it to fix the bulb. > No, one of those has to dress up in a moonman suit and dance around for marreting purposes. > -- > ----------------------------- > The Numeric Python EM Project > > www.pythonemproject.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 12:21:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8042537B401; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC66843E42; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:21:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #7) id 18AFcw-000CXD-00; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:21:14 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gA8KLD9l083254; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:21:14 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA8KLDrC083253; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:21:13 GMT Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:21:12 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? Message-ID: <20021108202112.GA83241@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20021108192606.GA70330@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021108192606.GA70330@colnta.acns.ab.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Scanner: exiscan *18AFcw-000CXD-00*yFsCsJDw4HE* (Manchester Computing, University of Manchester) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 12:26:06PM -0700, Chad David wrote: | On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 05:32:35PM +0000, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: | > | > Hi all, | > I just compiled a 'hello world' in objective c on a box with gcc but no | > GNUstep. I'm using the compile command as I found it in the tutorial. | > | > Any idea what I did wrong? | | Try: gcc -o testme main.m printer.m -lobjc That did it! Thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 14:12:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D4337B401; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:12:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB9743E3B; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:12:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0224.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.224] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18AHMJ-00009y-00; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:12:12 -0800 Message-ID: <3DCC366D.546DD998@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:10:53 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathon McKitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? References: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > Hi all, > I just compiled a 'hello world' in objective c on a box with gcc but no > GNUstep. I'm using the compile command as I found it in the tutorial. > > Any idea what I did wrong? > dogma:...files/programs/objc> gcc -lobjc main.m printer.m -o testme You used the vanilla gcc compiler, instead of the Objective C compiler. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 15:28:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6437C37B401 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:28:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (hak.cnd.mcgill.ca [132.216.11.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA6243E4A for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:28:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mat@hak.cnd.mcgill.ca) Received: from hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (localhost.cnd.mcgill.ca [127.0.0.1]) by hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA8NSwQr027178; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:28:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mat@hak.cnd.mcgill.ca) Received: (from mat@localhost) by hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gA8NSwe7027177; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:28:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:28:58 -0500 From: Mathew Kanner To: Sam Pikesley Cc: Arjan van Leeuwen , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NVidia's FreeBSD drivers Message-ID: <20021108182858.K23042@cnd.mcgill.ca> References: <200211082314.47355.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <20021108231943.17528.qmail@web14913.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: Sam Pikesley's message [Re: NVidia's FreeBSD drivers] as of Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 11:19:43PM +0000 Organization: I speak for myself, operating in Montreal, CANADA Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Nov 08, Sam Pikesley wrote: > I spent much of this afternoon installing and > configuring these drivers. Be warned: they are VERY > beta... Installation was a breeze for me. make && make setup. The only problem I'm having is that VidModeExtension doesn't work %100 and crashes when I vidmode change while using GL. Considering this is dual-proc machine, I quite impressed, though I have yet to try tv-out. --Mat > > --- Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > nVidia released their closed-source, 3D accelerated > > FreeBSD drivers for all > > GeForce chips yesterday (see www.nvidia.com). Isn't > > there something we can do > > with this? Should I contact nVidia's PR department? > > > > Arjan > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of > > the message > > ===== > Every time I hear the words 'Public Private Partnership', my thoughts are inexorably drawn to Ladbroke Grove, Hatfield and Potters Bar... > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Brain: Are you pondering what I'm pondering? Pinky: I think so Brain, but the Rockettes, it's mostly girls, isn't it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 8 22:25:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 885) id 9208D37B401; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:25:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:25:46 -0800 From: Eric Melville To: Terry Lambert Cc: Jonathon McKitrick , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? Message-ID: <20021108222546.A47006@FreeBSD.org> References: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <3DCC366D.546DD998@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3DCC366D.546DD998@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 02:10:53PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You used the vanilla gcc compiler, instead of the Objective C > compiler. Actually, that is the right compiler. All that needs to be done is source files need the apropriate extension and the objc library must be linked in. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message