From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 14 10:14:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D9BE16A4CE for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8880E43D31 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:14:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hBEIDdCD026317; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:13:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031212151310.GA81432@apotheosis.org.za> References: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> <20031212151310.GA81432@apotheosis.org.za> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:12:00 +0100 To: Matthew West From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:14:02 -0000 At 5:13 PM +0200 2003/12/12, Matthew West wrote: > If you're going to be using a system like the Soekris boards and your > project requires a media that you can do a lot of writes too, I would > recommend something like IBM's Microdrives. This defeats the whole purpose of using CF cards -- the fact that the device has no "unreliable" rotating media. If you put IBM/Fujitsu MicroDrives in there, you might as well put a real hard drive in a real computer, since that will likely have a longer lifespan than a tiny fragile little CFII MicroDrive. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 16 21:45:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E2E16A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250FD43D53 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:45:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com) Received: from vwinxp.sneakemail.com ([68.155.243.226]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.netESMTP <20031217054537.TMKO23303.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@vwinxp.sneakemail.com> for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:45:37 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com@mail.threespace.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:45:56 -0500 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 05:45:39 -0000 I have a few e-mail addresses that I'm no longer using which receive nothing but spam. I was thinking that maybe I could forward them to someone that might use it to improve their spam filters or report back to ISPs. Does anybody know of anyone that might appreciate having my UCE routed off to them? Have any suggestions for other good uses for this spam? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 16 22:41:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFDD16A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:41:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from graf.pompo.net (graf.pompo.net [81.56.186.139]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2EE943D53 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:41:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: by graf.pompo.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6A357752D; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:39:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:39:19 +0100 From: Thierry Thomas To: FreeBSD Chat Message-ID: <20031217063919.GA61694@graf.pompo.net> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Chat References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> X-Face: (hRbQnK~Pt7$ct`!fupO(`y_WL4^-Iwn4@ly-.,[4xC4xc; y=\ipKMNm<1J>lv@PP~7Z<.t KjAnXLs: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE i386 Organization: Kabbale Eros X-PGP: 0xC71405A2 Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 06:41:24 -0000 Le Mer 17 déc 03 à 6:45:56 +0100, Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> écrivait : > Does anybody know of anyone that might appreciate having my UCE routed off > to them? Have any suggestions for other good uses for this spam? Check & . Regards, -- Th. Thomas. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 17 00:14:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6F116A4CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:14:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.69.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBC643D4F for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:14:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) hBH8DfTA004954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:13:50 GMT (envelope-from matthew@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: (from matthew@localhost)id hBH8DfX8004945 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:13:41 GMT (envelope-from matthew) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:13:09 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman To: FreeBSD Chat Message-ID: <20031217081309.GA4785@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> <20031217063919.GA61694@graf.pompo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cWoXeonUoKmBZSoM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031217063919.GA61694@graf.pompo.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.60 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:14:11 -0000 --cWoXeonUoKmBZSoM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 07:39:19AM +0100, Thierry Thomas wrote: > Le Mer 17 d=E9c 03 =E0 6:45:56 +0100, Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.= com> > =E9crivait=A0: > > Does anybody know of anyone that might appreciate having my UCE routed = off=20 > > to them? Have any suggestions for other good uses for this spam? >=20 > Check & > . See also: http://razor.sourceforge.net/ Pipe the spam email into razor-report(1), and it will contribute to their distributed spam database. This will then be used by SpamAssassin and other spam filters to help identify incoming spams on other systems. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK --cWoXeonUoKmBZSoM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/4BAVdtESqEQa7a0RAl8CAKCW2sJFU55Bo1XuP355pSPLlua1jQCff8UV rS6QkAkqGDvH+SqBFFXFZ+0= =mRr6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cWoXeonUoKmBZSoM-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 17 01:37:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58BC316A4CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:37:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80D543D5A for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:37:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin@caomhin.demon.co.uk) Received: from caomhin.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.186]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AWY7v-000KxK-0X; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:37:56 +0000 Message-ID: <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:37:27 +0000 To: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> From: Kevin Golding References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:37:58 -0000 In article <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com>, Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> writes >I have a few e-mail addresses that I'm no longer using which receive >nothing but spam. I was thinking that maybe I could forward them to >someone that might use it to improve their spam filters or report back to ISPs. > >Does anybody know of anyone that might appreciate having my UCE routed off >to them? Have any suggestions for other good uses for this spam? will both report the spam and use it for building blacklists etc. if you forward it to them. Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 17 01:58:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98FE016A4CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:58:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0136043D53 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:58:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hBH9wKC9072642; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:58:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:57:46 +0100 To: Kevin Golding From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:58:41 -0000 At 9:37 AM +0000 2003/12/17, Kevin Golding wrote: > will both report the spam and use it for > building blacklists etc. if you forward it to them. SpamCop has a history of frequently mis-interpreting spam submissions/complaints as being actual spam itself, with the person complaining winding up being considered a spammer, and getting their own IP address, domain name, e-mail address, etc... added to various blacklists automatically and without redress. I would advise anyone considering this path to seriously think about this before they take such a risk. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 17 07:39:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5743516A4CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0EAE43D54 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:38:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 602675309; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:38:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id DEA0C5308; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:38:41 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 7365B33C95; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:38:41 +0100 (CET) To: Kevin Golding References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:38:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> (Kevin Golding's message of "Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:37:27 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.60 cc: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:39:01 -0000 Kevin Golding writes: > will both report the spam and use it for > building blacklists etc. if you forward it to them. Nice. Have you every tried forwarding some of their own spam to them? How did they react? DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 17 08:07:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F7B16A4CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta5.adelphia.net (mta5.adelphia.net [68.168.78.187]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A033F43D2D for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:07:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031217155551.CTTX16367.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:55:51 -0500 Message-ID: <3FE07C86.2080504@potentialtech.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:55:50 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:07:42 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Kevin Golding writes: > >> will both report the spam and use it for >>building blacklists etc. if you forward it to them. > > Nice. Have you every tried forwarding some of their own spam to them? > How did they react? Huh? Do you have an example spam from spamcop? I'd like to see it. I get hundreds of spam each day, and have never seen one originating from spamcop. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 17 13:09:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1683C16A4CE; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A42743D2D; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:09:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (orb_rules@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBHLBIMx085970; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:11:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: (from stijn@localhost) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hBHLBIQF085969; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:11:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stijn) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:11:18 +0100 From: Stijn Hoop To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" Message-ID: <20031217211118.GB84538@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <200312171912.hBHJCPZk087088@repoman.freebsd.org> <20031217202305.GA84538@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <20031217204655.GB31706@madman.celabo.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031217204655.GB31706@madman.celabo.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! cc: Joe Marcus Clarke cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/net/gaim Makefile distinfo pkg-plist X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:09:38 -0000 --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 02:46:55PM -0600, Jacques A. Vidrine wrote: > On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 09:23:05PM +0100, Stijn Hoop wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 11:12:25AM -0800, Joe Marcus Clarke wrote: > > > marcus 2003/12/17 11:12:25 PST > > >=20 > > > FreeBSD ports repository > > >=20 > > > Modified files: > > > net/gaim Makefile distinfo pkg-plist=20 > > > Log: > > > Remove the OpenSSL plug-in. The gaim authors do not feel OpenSSL is > > > a system library, and thus not part of the GPL exemption. > >=20 > > That's weird on a system where OpenSSL is part of the base distribution= ... > > (well crypto but it is indeed on the OS CD's and installed by default on > > all types of installations). > >=20 > > I would hope that the OpenSSL authors would give explicit permission to > > use the library in GPL products, but I'm guessing that would be too much > > to hope for... >=20 > [Disclaimer: I love gaim.] >=20 > The OpenSSL authors have. Well basically they say "if you add this exception to your GPL license everything is fine". What I'd like to see is for them to remove the advertising clause, or else issue a statement to the effect of "if you use the GNU GPL v2 or later, the advertising clause is removed", because of... > It is the *Gaim* authors who have > apparently gone looney. They insist that it is a GPL violation to > link Gaim with OpenSSL, since OpenSSL has an advertising clause and is > thus incompatible with the GPL. They do have some kind of a point -- it is incompatible on systems where OpenSSL is not part of the base system (afaik Solaris and others). And beca= use of that, like you, I see a continuing trend towards... > Of course, this benefits no one, except maybe the GNU TLS authors. > (The thread I saw had a subtext of ``The goal here is to replace > OpenSSL with GNU TLS.'' Or maybe I read in too much.) Well I "see" the same happening with other projects. Which is a real shame because OpenSSL is really the only choice for *BSD (because of licensing reasons) and it would mean another diversion between Linux and BSD. That's = why I feel that the first option above would be better. Considering the history= of this debate, I'm highly doubtful that something like that would happen though... Sorry that I had to pick this commit to chime in on, in hindsight it's not really this that I wanted to comment on... Moving to -chat... --Stijn --=20 The right half of the brain controls the left half of the body. This means that only left handed people are in their right mind. --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/4MZ2Y3r/tLQmfWcRAue6AKCrhQNgnE08X7fupdTYsM+tQAO7ZwCfd0rB bRrEOULjPZGVvqU7FVxzbCA= =wfJq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 17 15:12:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7190516A4CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD3543D1D for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:12:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9CE4D66C4F; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:12:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:12:44 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav Message-ID: <20031217231244.GA41765@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:12:46 -0000 --tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:38:41PM +0100, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Kevin Golding writes: > > will both report the spam and use it for > > building blacklists etc. if you forward it to them. >=20 > Nice. Have you every tried forwarding some of their own spam to them? > How did they react? spamcop has a FAQ about spam that allegedly originates from their servers. As usual, it's forged headers. OTOH, I stopped using spamcop a while ago because of the shady business deals the owner made (and never adequately justified) with cyveillance.com, a known net abuser and all-round suspicious company. I'm just not thrilled to have all my reported emails forwarded on to a dodgy company that uses them to conduct "market research" and sells unspecified derived information to customers. Kris --tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/4OLsWry0BWjoQKURAodKAJ4tVKih07IvSJITr6THXvxnA1NiZQCfawZU faP8tY0w/dnH8SJ6ZWXVqzE= =9OhD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 17 23:19:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7334A16A4CE for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3FB43D1F for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:19:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 2C4BE5309; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:19:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 005AF5308; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:18:55 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id D856633C95; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:18:55 +0100 (CET) To: Kris Kennaway References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> <20031217231244.GA41765@xor.obsecurity.org> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:18:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20031217231244.GA41765@xor.obsecurity.org> (Kris Kennaway's message of "Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:12:44 -0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.60 cc: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:19:15 -0000 Kris Kennaway writes: > On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:38:41PM +0100, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > > Nice. Have you every tried forwarding some of their own spam to them? > > How did they react? > spamcop has a FAQ about spam that allegedly originates from their > servers. As usual, it's forged headers. Are the popup ads forged as well? Fortunately my browser blocks popup ads, so I haven't seen any in a while. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 18 01:29:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D19816A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 01:29:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from blarf.homeip.net (adsl-209-204-188-56.sonic.net [209.204.188.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E8743D4B for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 01:29:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listmail@blarf.homeip.net) Received: by blarf.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 54623242F2; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 01:29:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 01:29:11 -0800 From: Alex Zepeda To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031218092911.GB22547@blarf.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: zipzippy@sonic.net Subject: Memory advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:29:14 -0000 (I'm not subscribed to the list, so if any responses could be CC'd directly to me, that'd be great). I've got two machines that I'd like to add more RAM to. The first is an Apple Beige G3 (266mhz Rev 1 minitower), the second is a PC with a SuperMicro P6DGE board (with a single P2-450 in the second CPU slot). The PC had an old Micron branded PC100 DIMM (128MB) and the Mac came with a Hyundai branded 32MB DIMM (presumably 66MHZ), but I had switched them out so that the Mac had more RAM since it runs all of my server stuff (if only I could ditch NetBSD.. alas no old world support for FreeBSD)... and FreeBSD on the desktop works pretty well with 32mb RAM :)) I bought some cheapie PC133 RAM (Buffalo Tech) which would not work at all in the PC, and it was such a poor fit I didn't even bother trying it in the Mac. Next I bought some more PC133 RAM from Crucial. Same deal, with the PC133 sticks installed the PC will not boot (the BIOS diagnostic stuff hangs at 'Checking NVRAM'). So I stuck it in the Mac... and the Mac only sees 64MB per DIMM. So... Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might actually work in on the SuperMicro board? Any ideas on what to look for in a fully Mac compatible DIMM? So far no response from Micron/Crucial. :( - alex From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 18 06:18:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5560816A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp2.knology.net (smtp3.knology.net [24.214.63.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 00DBB43D2D for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:18:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@HiWAAY.net) Received: (qmail 6858 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2003 14:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.68?) (24.214.34.52) by smtp3.knology.net with SMTP; 18 Dec 2003 14:18:35 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <20031218092911.GB22547@blarf.homeip.net> References: <20031218092911.GB22547@blarf.homeip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0F14E838-3165-11D8-A397-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Kelly Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:18:32 -0600 To: Alex Zepeda , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Subject: Re: Memory advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:18:39 -0000 On Dec 18, 2003, at 3:29 AM, Alex Zepeda wrote: > Any ideas on what to look for in a fully Mac compatible DIMM? When you order from Crucial, order from the Macintosh section. Or order from a Macintosh vendor such as http://www.macsales.com/ Also for a long time PC133 was backwards compatible with PC100 but then something changed and not all PC133 worked in PC100 systems. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net ======================================================================== Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 18 06:19:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F2C16A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:19:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5CE43D2D for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:19:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CFCE866BAA; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:19:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:19:31 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav Message-ID: <20031218141931.GB48442@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031217004209.01961a88@mail.threespace.com> <9udL4GCXPC4$EwBY@caomhin.demon.co.uk> <20031217231244.GA41765@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: FreeBSD Chat cc: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Good uses for spam X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:19:35 -0000 --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 08:18:55AM +0100, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Kris Kennaway writes: > > On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:38:41PM +0100, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > > > Nice. Have you every tried forwarding some of their own spam to them? > > > How did they react? > > spamcop has a FAQ about spam that allegedly originates from their > > servers. As usual, it's forged headers. >=20 > Are the popup ads forged as well? Fortunately my browser blocks popup > ads, so I haven't seen any in a while. I presume that's another slightly obnoxious attempt to pay the bills. Kris --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/4bdzWry0BWjoQKURAkcjAJ41AyVF/6TXIngSvXWXJtQ/N1mBvwCfdDFA wiEwizCLCwYDGzSu4B9FjlI= =hy72 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 18 07:46:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA0016A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bellevue.com (mail.bellevue.com [66.37.227.41]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D882D43D1D for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:46:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nwreplies@bellevue.com) Received: from Spooler by mail.bellevue.com (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO006A54; 18 Dec 03 09:47:37 -0600 Received: from spooler by mail.bellevue.com (Mercury/32 v3.32); 18 Dec 03 09:47:21 -0600 Received: from wps03 (66.37.227.241) by mail.bellevue.com (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MG006A4D; 18 Dec 03 09:47:12 -0600 From: To: Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:45:27 -0600 Message-ID: <00f901c3c57d$f572ef40$6500000a@bellevuedata.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000 Thread-Index: AcPFffVy6TV6kpacQWO/LAOZqhXcmQ== Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Network World E-Mail Confirmation 12/18/2003 9:45:27 AM X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:46:03 -0000 Thank you Scott Short for choosing Network World's e-mail=0A= newsletters. You have just hand-picked the most concise,=0A= accurate and timely technology email alerts in the industry.=0A= =0A= You are currently subscribed to: =0A= =0A= LAN News Alert=0A= =0A= Storage News Alert=0A= =0A= Network/Systems Management News Alert=0A= =0A= The Edge News Alert=0A= =0A= Microsoft News Alert=0A= =0A= Cisco News Alert=0A= =0A= Trade Show News Alert=0A= =0A= Financial News Alert=0A= =0A= Standards and Regulations News Alert=0A= =0A= Security News Alert=0A= =0A= IBM News Alert=0A= =0A= Sun News Alert=0A= =0A= NetFlash=0A= =0A= This Week on NW Fusion=0A= =0A= Product Reviews=0A= =0A= Technology Update=0A= =0A= Voices of Networking=0A= =0A= Gibbs & Bradner=0A= =0A= Ask the Experts=0A= =0A= DEMOletter=0A= =0A= Linux=0A= =0A= Messaging=0A= =0A= Novell NetWare Tips=0A= =0A= Identity Management=0A= =0A= Windows Networking Tips=0A= =0A= High-Speed LANs=0A= =0A= Wireless Computing Devices=0A= =0A= Wireless in the Enterprise=0A= =0A= Storage in the Enterprise=0A= =0A= Servers=0A= =0A= Security=0A= =0A= Virus and Bug Patch Alert=0A= =0A= Network Systems Management=0A= =0A= Web Applications=0A= =0A= Web Business=0A= =0A= ISP News Report=0A= =0A= Network Optimization=0A= =0A= Wide Area Networking=0A= =0A= VPNs=0A= =0A= Outsourcing=0A= =0A= Convergence=0A= =0A= Optical Networking=0A= =0A= View from the Edge=0A= =0A= Technology Executive=0A= =0A= VORTEX Digest=0A= =0A= SOHO Life=0A= =0A= IT Education and Training=0A= =0A= Product Central=0A= =0A= Whitepapers Download=0A= =0A= Telework Beat=0A= =0A= Small Business Technology=0A= =0A= IT Leadership=0A= =0A= Data Center News Alert=0A= =0A= Data Center Newsletter=0A= =0A= =0A= SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES=0A= If you have received this e-mail in error or you have not signed up for=0A= this newsletter, please e-mail Network World customer service at:=0A= mailto:nwreplies@bellevue.com=0A= =0A= If you would like to sign-up for additional FREE e-mail =0A= newsletters from Network World, indicate your e-mail preferences or = change your e-mail address, please visit: = http://www.nwwsubscribe.com/Default.aspx=0A= =0A= ------------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= =0A= DID YOU KNOW?=0A= =0A= FREE E-MAIL NEWSLETTERS=0A= =0A= Network World offers over 40 technology specific e-mail newsletters and = news alerts.=0A= =0A= Each newsletter combines exceptional editorial content with a superior = collection of links to resources across the web. 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Visit http://www.nwfusion.com/events/techtour.html for = more information.=0A= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 18 07:46:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516A916A4CF for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bellevue.com (mail.bellevue.com [66.37.227.41]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16EA43D39 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:46:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nwreplies@bellevue.com) Received: from Spooler by mail.bellevue.com (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO006A89; 18 Dec 03 09:48:15 -0600 Received: from spooler by mail.bellevue.com (Mercury/32 v3.32); 18 Dec 03 09:48:01 -0600 Received: from wps03 (66.37.227.241) by mail.bellevue.com (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MG006A7E; 18 Dec 03 09:47:51 -0600 From: To: Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:46:06 -0600 Message-ID: <00fa01c3c57e$0c8d64d0$6500000a@bellevuedata.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000 Thread-Index: AcPFfgyNpu8khyGiQWyE6NQrNKu+5w== Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Network World E-Mail Confirmation 12/18/2003 9:46:06 AM X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:46:46 -0000 Thank you Scott Short for choosing Network World's e-mail=0A= newsletters. 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Visit http://www.nwfusion.com/events/techtour.html for = more information.=0A= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 18 12:08:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CAD16A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from blarf.homeip.net (adsl-209-204-188-56.sonic.net [209.204.188.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A36C43D5D for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:08:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@blarf.homeip.net) Received: by blarf.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 2000) id 51BFB244C8; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:08:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:07:31 -0800 From: Alex Zepeda To: David Kelly , mfreebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031218200731.GA4660@blarf.homeip.net> References: <20031218092911.GB22547@blarf.homeip.net> <0F14E838-3165-11D8-A397-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0F14E838-3165-11D8-A397-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: zipzippy@sonic.net Resent-From: Alex Zepeda Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:08:51 -0800 Resent-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Resent-Message-Id: <20031218200851.51BFB244C8@blarf.homeip.net> Subject: Re: Memory advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:08:53 -0000 On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 08:18:32AM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > When you order from Crucial, order from the Macintosh section. Or order > from a Macintosh vendor such as http://www.macsales.com/ I was trying to avoid this merely because of the price (+$10/stick). A quick glance at the specs showed that they listed the same chip densities for the PC100 and 'Mac approved 66mhz' 128MB sticks. I'm not too eager to experiment if I'm going to have to pay for return shipping. > Also for a long time PC133 was backwards compatible with PC100 but then > something changed and not all PC133 worked in PC100 systems. But.. why would it function in a 66mhz system if it were having timing issues? Aside from only seeing half of the capacity, it's rock solid in the Mac (as much as running an old NetBSD-current can be considered rock solid). - alex From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 19 11:04:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CD016A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from icem3.worldatamail.com (icem3.worldatamail.com [63.77.84.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2810F43D53 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:04:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from feedback@worldata-mail.com) Received: from 192.168.0.46 (unverified [192.168.0.21]) by icem3.worldatamail.com for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:03:53 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:03:53 -0500 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Entrepreneur.com To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Thank you for opting-in X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:04:17 -0000 Thank you for opting-in to receive the free E_Business, Franchise_Zone, Growing_A_Business, Sales_and_Marketing, Soyentrepreneur, Starting_A_Business newsletter published by Entrepreneur.com. Our monthly e-mail newsletter (which you should receive shortly) keeps you informed with timely business information every entrepreneur should know. We'll also tell you what's new on entrepreneur.com and let you know about special discounts and services from our partners. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Due to the increasing problem of unsolicited e-mail, please make sure you can receive your Entrepreneur.com newsletter. If you are a Yahoo!, AOL, Hotmail, or Earthlink subscriber, please add the e-mail address: feedback@worldata-mail.com to your address book. If you access the Internet through another provider, please ask your ISP to have our e-mail address, feedback@wordata-mail, added to their safelist. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- We look forward to serving your needs over the coming months! Entrepreneur.com Special Offers Free Franchise Consultation Find a franchise that's right for you. 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Good Luck, Rieva Lesonsky SVP/Editorial Director Entrepreneur.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 19 11:19:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1CE16A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:19:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1831B43D53 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:19:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (rocky [192.168.0.2]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBJJIMCU071329 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:18:34 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3FE34F3F.1050908@401.cx> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:19:27 +0100 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thank you for opting-in X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:19:17 -0000 I do not intend to feed any kind of troll here, but does anyone know why people keep signing up chat@ (and other lists) to different mailinglists? This has puzzled me for a while, and I cant really find any logical reason for it. I guess it might be an attempt to annoy people, but since signing up for the mailinglist probably is just as much or even more work then unsubscribing from it, there must be another reason. Does anyone care to explain the logic behind this behaviour? -- R Entrepreneur.com wrote: > Thank you for opting-in to receive the free E_Business, > Franchise_Zone, Growing_A_Business, Sales_and_Marketing, > Soyentrepreneur, Starting_A_Business newsletter published by > Entrepreneur.com. > > Our monthly e-mail newsletter (which you should receive shortly) > keeps you informed with timely business information every > entrepreneur should know. We'll also tell you what's new on > entrepreneur.com and let you know about special discounts and > services from our partners. > *snipped a lot of bullshit* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 19 11:23:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC1116A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C823D43D53 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:23:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031219192350.KZWG12043.mta10.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:23:50 -0500 Message-ID: <3FE35045.3020201@potentialtech.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:23:49 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg References: <3FE34F3F.1050908@401.cx> In-Reply-To: <3FE34F3F.1050908@401.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thank you for opting-in X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:23:54 -0000 Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > I do not intend to feed any kind of troll here, but does anyone know why > people keep signing up chat@ (and other lists) to different mailinglists? > This has puzzled me for a while, and I cant really find any logical > reason for it. I guess it might be an attempt to annoy people, but since > signing up for the mailinglist probably is just as much or even more > work then unsubscribing from it, there must be another reason. No, you've pretty much got it. It's some antisocial jerk with nothing better to do, trying to make other people as miserable as he is ... not realizing that he's only making himself more miserable in the process. I don't know what the official policy is, but if this happened to a mailing list that I maintained, I would require that the sites that are attempting to subscribe provide the IP addy of the person putting the request in, and file criminal charges for harassment. But that's just me. > Does anyone care to explain the logic behind this behaviour? I don't think logic comes into play here. This seems to happen every few months. I guess with millions of people online, we're bound to encounter a few who are pretty strange. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 19 12:50:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68E9316A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from heceta.db.net (heceta.db.net [66.11.169.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F5DC43D2D for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:50:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from db@heceta.db.net) Received: from db by heceta.db.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.8) id 1AXRZs-000Hx0-OF; Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:50:28 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:50:28 -0500 From: Diane Bruce To: Bill Moran Message-ID: <20031219205028.GA68966@heceta.db.net> References: <3FE34F3F.1050908@401.cx> <3FE35045.3020201@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FE35045.3020201@potentialtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thank you for opting-in X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:50:46 -0000 On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 02:23:49PM -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > >I do not intend to feed any kind of troll here, but does anyone know why ... > I don't know what the official policy is, but if this happened to > a mailing list that I maintained, I would require that the sites > that are attempting to subscribe provide the IP addy of the person > putting the request in, and file criminal charges for harassment. It still amazes me that there are still sites around that opt in without email confirmation from the "victim." If it were up to me, I'd also complain loudly to the site about having a backwards setup email scheme. - Diane From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 13:29:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77E916A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF9D443D5D for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:29:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D331066C4F; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:55:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:55:08 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Diane Bruce Message-ID: <20031220155508.GA75442@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <3FE34F3F.1050908@401.cx> <3FE35045.3020201@potentialtech.com> <20031219205028.GA68966@heceta.db.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yrj/dFKFPuw6o+aM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031219205028.GA68966@heceta.db.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Bill Moran Subject: Re: Thank you for opting-in X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:29:16 -0000 --yrj/dFKFPuw6o+aM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 03:50:28PM -0500, Diane Bruce wrote: > On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 02:23:49PM -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > > Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > > >I do not intend to feed any kind of troll here, but does anyone know w= hy > ... > > I don't know what the official policy is, but if this happened to > > a mailing list that I maintained, I would require that the sites > > that are attempting to subscribe provide the IP addy of the person > > putting the request in, and file criminal charges for harassment. >=20 > It still amazes me that there are still sites around that opt in=20 > without email confirmation from the "victim." If it were up to me, > I'd also complain loudly to the site about having a backwards setup=20 > email scheme. It is up to you, though, so please go ahead. Kris --yrj/dFKFPuw6o+aM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/5HDcWry0BWjoQKURAr0BAKD0ljIoiOyG20M/ygvfaDNlG7ehqgCcDFE8 jaKYQdfK58tahLO29YRpRCg= =fDMh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yrj/dFKFPuw6o+aM-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 14:16:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B62F916A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from blarf.homeip.net (adsl-209-204-188-56.sonic.net [209.204.188.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B00F43D62 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:16:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@blarf.homeip.net) Received: by blarf.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 2000) id 92959253C2; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:15:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:15:58 -0800 From: Alex Zepeda To: David Kelly , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031220221558.GB9851@blarf.homeip.net> References: <20031218092911.GB22547@blarf.homeip.net> <0F14E838-3165-11D8-A397-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0F14E838-3165-11D8-A397-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: zipzippy@sonic.net Subject: Re: Memory advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:16:39 -0000 On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 08:18:32AM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > When you order from Crucial, order from the Macintosh section. Or order > from a Macintosh vendor such as http://www.macsales.com/ Actually, Crucial's web site is just inaccurate. Their Mac section only lists 66mhz SDRAM as being compatible (at least WRT timing) with the Beige G3 (which is incorrect as I've proven by running these sticks at half capacity). > Also for a long time PC133 was backwards compatible with PC100 but then > something changed and not all PC133 worked in PC100 systems. The P6DGE does indeed support a 133mhz FSB. According to Crucial all PC133 ram will work at 100mhz. As it turns out, my suspicions were probably correct. It was a chip density issue. Their e-mail support claimed the latest BIOS update would allow the high density chips to work with the P6DGE (not true), and their phone support said that the high density sticks I had ordered were not compatible with the P6DGE at all and I should have ordered the memory through their memory selector. Unfortunately for them I did order through their selector, and their selector did not list any low density sticks. Their web site offers no way to determine which are which. Last time I order from them I suppose. - alex From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 14:28:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3EB16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D5F043D45 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:28:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from runaround.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17078; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:27:35 -0700 (MST) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006075024.04ec1ea0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: Diane Bruce , Bill Moran From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <20031219205028.GA68966@heceta.db.net> References: <3FE34F3F.1050908@401.cx> <3FE35045.3020201@potentialtech.com> <20031219205028.GA68966@heceta.db.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thank you for opting-in X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:28:22 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 07:53:48 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:28:22 -0000 At 02:50 PM 12/19/2003, Diane Bruce wrote: >It still amazes me that there are still sites around that opt in >without email confirmation from the "victim." Thousands. Paul Vixie's MAPS has a whole DNS blacklist devoted to them. They call them "NMLs" -- nonconforming (or, as some people expand the acronym, nonconfirming) mailing lists. I used to write for a magazine which had online newsletters and refused to do confirmation. Their marketroids had decreed that this not be done because "it might reduce the number of subscribers." Their advertising rates went by the number of subscribers, so they refused to consider the notion that an unwilling subscriber was worse than one less. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 14:30:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA2E16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:30:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897E343D5C for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031220222958.GCKA1240.mta11.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:29:58 -0500 Message-ID: <3FE4CD66.3040603@potentialtech.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:29:58 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:30:00 -0000 Hey, I had a friend tell me once that usr wasn't short for "user" as I've long thought, but was actually an abbreviation for something more interesting (and technical). For some reason, I've been thinking about this today. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, what usr actually stands for? -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 14:43:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B0916A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DF343D3F for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:43:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan2.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.162] helo=localhost) by tx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AXpoa-0000PI-KN for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:43:16 +0000 Received: from rx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.161]) by localhost (scan2.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.162]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 01389-03 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:43:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AXpoa-0000PF-6z for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:43:16 +0000 Received: (qmail 2519 invoked by uid 0); 20 Dec 2003 22:43:16 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 1.293298 secs); 20 Dec 2003 22:43:16 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 1.293298 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 20 Dec 2003 22:43:14 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:43:09 +0000 To: Bill Moran , chat@freebsd.org From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <3FE4CD66.3040603@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:43:30 -0000 At 17:29 20/12/2003 -0500, Bill Moran wrote: >I had a friend tell me once that usr wasn't short for "user" as I've long >thought, but was actually an abbreviation for something more interesting >(and technical). There's an urban myth floating around that it meant Unix System Resource. According to denizens of afc, this is likely a backronym, since the first use of /usr/ was to store user's files. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 15:08:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D1716A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD19343D39 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:08:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan2.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.162] helo=localhost) by tx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AXqCe-0007x9-MY for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:08:09 +0000 Received: from rx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.161]) by localhost (scan2.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.162]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 30117-10 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:08:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx2.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AXqCe-0007x3-99 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:08:08 +0000 Received: (qmail 8248 invoked by uid 0); 20 Dec 2003 23:08:08 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 3.175374 secs); 20 Dec 2003 23:08:08 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 3.175374 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 20 Dec 2003 23:08:05 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220230641.02d15ec0@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:08:02 +0000 To: Bill Moran , Colin Percival From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <3FE4D580.6050001@potentialtech.com> References: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:08:11 -0000 At 18:04 20/12/2003 -0500, Bill Moran wrote: >Colin Percival wrote: > > There's an urban myth floating around that it meant Unix System Resource. >>According to denizens of afc, this is likely a backronym, since the first >>use of /usr/ was to store user's files. > >The urban myth is believeable, though, since it seems silly to abbreviate >"user" with "usr" ... I mean, you're only saving 1 letter. The same could be said about /tmp. I suspect it has less to do with abbreviation, and more to do with someone having a broken "e" key on their keyboard. ;) Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 15:33:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C37C16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta5.adelphia.net (mta5.adelphia.net [68.168.78.187]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7904643D45 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:33:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031220230433.WKFX2393.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:04:33 -0500 Message-ID: <3FE4D580.6050001@potentialtech.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:04:32 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Colin Percival References: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:33:23 -0000 Colin Percival wrote: > At 17:29 20/12/2003 -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > >> I had a friend tell me once that usr wasn't short for "user" as I've long >> thought, but was actually an abbreviation for something more interesting >> (and technical). > > There's an urban myth floating around that it meant Unix System Resource. > According to denizens of afc, this is likely a backronym, since the first > use of /usr/ was to store user's files. The urban myth is believeable, though, since it seems silly to abbreviate "user" with "usr" ... I mean, you're only saving 1 letter. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 15:57:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161B816A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C321F43D4C for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:57:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:00:08 -0600 Message-ID: <3FE4E1A4.1080302@daleco.biz> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:56:20 -0600 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031124 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Colin Percival References: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> <5.0.2.1.1.20031220230641.02d15ec0@popserver.sfu.ca> In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220230641.02d15ec0@popserver.sfu.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Dec 2003 00:00:09.0234 (UTC) FILETIME=[65E7BF20:01C3C755] cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Bill Moran Subject: Re: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:57:03 -0000 Colin Percival wrote: > At 18:04 20/12/2003 -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > >> Colin Percival wrote: >> > There's an urban myth floating around that it meant Unix System >> Resource. >> >>> According to denizens of afc, this is likely a backronym, since the >>> first >>> use of /usr/ was to store user's files. >> >> >> The urban myth is believeable, though, since it seems silly to >> abbreviate >> "user" with "usr" ... I mean, you're only saving 1 letter. > > > The same could be said about /tmp. I suspect it has less to do with > abbreviation, and more to do with someone having a broken "e" key on > their > keyboard. ;) > > Colin Percival > UNIX is a tad famous for "lazy typists"; Ritchie has been quoted (I think) as saying Thompson had a grand penchant for brevity or sparseness. Could it be related to storage issues? Three chars and a slash isn't a biggie anymore, but back then, ?? Somebody smarter than me might know.... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 16:26:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F41F16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:26:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ozlabs.org (ozlabs.org [203.10.76.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7403643D39 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:26:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from blackwater.lemis.com (blackwater.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645562BD0F for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:26:46 +1100 (EST) Received: by blackwater.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 8480E5120B; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:57:11 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:57:11 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Message-ID: <20031221002711.GA4438@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> <5.0.2.1.1.20031220230641.02d15ec0@popserver.sfu.ca> <3FE4E1A4.1080302@daleco.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FE4E1A4.1080302@daleco.biz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Bill Moran Subject: Re: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:26:50 -0000 --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday, 20 December 2003 at 17:56:20 -0600, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > Colin Percival wrote: >> At 18:04 20/12/2003 -0500, Bill Moran wrote: >>> Colin Percival wrote: >>>> There's an urban myth floating around that it meant Unix System >>> Resource. >>> >>>> According to denizens of afc, this is likely a backronym, since the >>>> first >>>> use of /usr/ was to store user's files. >>> >>> The urban myth is believeable, though, since it seems silly to >>> abbreviate "user" with "usr" ... I mean, you're only saving 1 >>> letter. >> >> The same could be said about /tmp. I suspect it has less to do >> with abbreviation, and more to do with someone having a broken "e" >> key on their keyboard. ;) > > UNIX is a tad famous for "lazy typists"; Ritchie has been quoted (I > think) as saying Thompson had a grand penchant for brevity or > sparseness. > > Could it be related to storage issues? Three chars and a slash > isn't a biggie anymore, but back then, ?? Somebody smarter than me > might know.... I suspect you've never used a teletype. It's a pain to use, slow and clunky. Each keystroke is a separate effort. Under those circumstances, saving on input is an advantage. File names were 14 characters long, pretty much from the beginning, so I don't think it has anything to do with that. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers. --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/5OjfIubykFB6QiMRAq/IAJ9DZIq7KD5IwUjfyyDI1JwPttkC/gCgoKjj B+nPvaMG8Zd6ZE4g9biCLfU= =kHoc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 16:32:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DEC616A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:32:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A18A43D48 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:32:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBL2UxKV000241 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:30:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hBL2Uxri000240 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:30:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:30:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200312210230.hBL2Uxri000240@mail.cruzio.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:32:34 -0000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 16:33:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D215F16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:33:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F72043D55 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:33:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBL2VvKV000246 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:31:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hBL2Vv6d000245 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:31:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:31:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200312210231.hBL2Vv6d000245@mail.cruzio.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:33:33 -0000 I don't know anything about the derivation of the name "usr", but it is of mild interest that one reason 3-letter filename suffixes are so common (.exe, .jpg, .com, .txt, etc..) is that many old DEC machines (including the PDP-11) used a character set called "rad 50" (or RADIX-50, Radix 50, etc..). Rad 50 had 40 characters (50 in octal), and could store 3 characters in 16 bits. A number of filesystems used a single 16-bit word for the filename suffix in dir structures and such, and thus the 3 char maximum on suffix lengths. If you ever had to work with rad-50 at low-level, you are liable to remember it, because characters were not aligned on bit boundaries but had to be inserted and extracted using a process similar to that used for converting between base 10 numbers in ASCII text and binary numbers. DRI used 3-letter suffixes for CP/M, likely because the RT-11 system at the NPS that seems to have strongly flavored CP/M used RAD-50. MS DOS, of course, inherited the convention from CP/M. None of this still has anything to do with Unix's "usr", but 3 letter name limitations were common at one time. RSX-11, another PDP-11 OS, had a one word rad-50 3 character maximum on command names; this (or other similar systems) may have influenced the use of common 3-character names such as "ddb"... or maybe not. There were a lot of similar character sets - Univac Fielddata, CDC Display Code.... These were all different of course. Dealing with char conversion in mainframe days was a mess. Of course, today these days 3 char suffixes (.htm) are probably just common because the statistics work out nice. - bruce From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 17:03:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE3516A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEE443D3F for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:03:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003122101035001100ilnnse>; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 01:03:50 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) hBL13VgS006090 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:03:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hBL13QII006089; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:03:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: chat@freebsd.org References: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> <3FE4D580.6050001@potentialtech.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:03:25 -0800 In-Reply-To: <3FE4D580.6050001@potentialtech.com> (Bill Moran's message of "Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:04:32 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 01:03:52 -0000 Bill Moran writes: > The urban myth is believeable, though, since it seems silly to abbreviate > "user" with "usr" ... I mean, you're only saving 1 letter. Most programmers back then didn't think it was at all silly. In addition to the already-mentioned teletype, some of us had to program on punch cards (eg, my college) and via 110 baud terminals (eg, my first job). Not only typing was slow; correcting typing errors with the primative "line editors" was even slower, and the less you had to type, the fewer errors you had to correct. Abbreviations were rampant, with "unnecessary" syllables and vowels being dropped whenever feasible. That "usr" might have been a victim of habit, or, more likely, the high frequency of typing it was considered. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 18:02:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B78416A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0772143D48 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:02:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031221020218.LSFL5224.mta9.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:02:18 -0500 Message-ID: <3FE4FF2A.4050902@potentialtech.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:02:18 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gary W. Swearingen" References: <5.0.2.1.1.20031220224013.02cf25c0@popserver.sfu.ca> <3FE4D580.6050001@potentialtech.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A bit of trivia: what does usr stand for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:02:20 -0000 Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Bill Moran writes: > > >>The urban myth is believeable, though, since it seems silly to abbreviate >>"user" with "usr" ... I mean, you're only saving 1 letter. > > Most programmers back then didn't think it was at all silly. In > addition to the already-mentioned teletype, some of us had to program > on punch cards (eg, my college) and via 110 baud terminals (eg, my > first job). Not only typing was slow; correcting typing errors with > the primative "line editors" was even slower, and the less you had to > type, the fewer errors you had to correct. Abbreviations were > rampant, with "unnecessary" syllables and vowels being dropped > whenever feasible. That "usr" might have been a victim of habit, or, > more likely, the high frequency of typing it was considered. It's easy to forget where much of this comes from. Teletypes were before my time, but I do remember edlin ... and I assume that's the class of editor you're talking about. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 18:03:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF03916A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:03:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2629343D45 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:03:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (dsl-082-082-077-134.arcor-ip.net [82.82.77.134]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A97785362DD for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:03:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBL23I5Y082098 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:03:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hBL23IDI082097 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:03:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:03:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Spam educates X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:03:22 -0000 It's amazing, but if you get enough spam you can actually learn things from it. I didn't realize that in Italian "piacere" is conjugated with "essere", until I saw it in a spam subject. (I don't really know Italian and approach it from French.) One spam finally spelled out what that mysterious term "MILF" means, although it turns out to be rather crude. Lately, I've realized that "Paris Hilton" apparently is a person and not a hotel, which makes some of those spam subjects much more sensible. Maybe I should arrange for the proper display of Asian scripts? A fountain of knowledge awaits! -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 18:09:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB1D16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:09:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A9343D58 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:09:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031221020957.JPZQ12043.mta10.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:09:57 -0500 Message-ID: <3FE500F4.3060108@potentialtech.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:09:56 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: More trivia: origin of the wheel group X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:09:58 -0000 Since the last questin seemed to spark so much interest and conversation, I figured I'd try again ... Does anyone know why the wheel group is called "wheel"? I mean, why not "admins" or something like that. "wheel" certainly is a cryptic name for the administrators group. Anyone have any idea why it's called "wheel"? -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 18:26:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F2D16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte215.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A9743D49 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:26:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (s1.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.201])hBL2Q1x6007390; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:26:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-X-Sender: jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com To: Bill Moran In-Reply-To: <3FE500F4.3060108@potentialtech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More trivia: origin of the wheel group X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:26:07 -0000 On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Bill Moran wrote: > Does anyone know why the wheel group is called "wheel"? I mean, why not > "admins" or something like that. "wheel" certainly is a cryptic name for > the administrators group. Anyone have any idea why it's called "wheel"? The guy who wrote the group functionality was both a buddhist and a Journey fan. He was listening to "Wheel in the Sky" while trying to figure out a way to give more people administrative rights without giving too much access. In a fit of enlightment, he came up with a special group for administrators. Since they were the ones who kept things turning, it only seemed appropriate that "wheel" be immortalized in the /etc/group file. True story! Later, Jason C. Wells From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 19:16:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C49E16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucan.foad.org (ucan.foad.org [64.173.36.245]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B02743D45 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:16:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pde@ucan.foad.org) Received: from ucan.foad.org (pde@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by ucan.foad.org (8.12.10/HIGHWIRE2.0) with ESMTP id hBL3GSpS011017 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pde@localhost) by ucan.foad.org (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id hBL3GSB9010729 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:16:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:16:27 -0800 From: Pete Ehlke To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031221031627.GA21104@ehlke.net> References: <3FE500F4.3060108@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: More trivia: origin of the wheel group X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:16:31 -0000 On Sat, Dec 20, 2003 at 06:26:01PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > The guy who wrote the group functionality was both a buddhist and a > Journey fan. He was listening to "Wheel in the Sky" while trying to > figure out a way to give more people administrative rights without giving > too much access. In a fit of enlightment, he came up with a special group > for administrators. Since they were the ones who kept things turning, it > only seemed appropriate that "wheel" be immortalized in the /etc/group > file. > > True story! > Uh huh. The notion of 'wheel' existed well before Journey. It was certainly there in TOPS-20: WHEEL was the group that had full system priveleges. But it was a nice try :) -Pete From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 19:21:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E111416A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from be-well.no-ip.com (lowellg.ne.client2.attbi.com [66.30.200.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D3443D49 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:21:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-chat-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: by be-well.no-ip.com (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 8904860; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:21:05 -0500 (EST) Sender: lowell@be-well.ilk.org To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <3FE500F4.3060108@potentialtech.com> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 20 Dec 2003 22:21:05 -0500 In-Reply-To: <3FE500F4.3060108@potentialtech.com> Message-ID: <44ad5mdffi.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Lines: 1 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: More trivia: origin of the wheel group X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:21:07 -0000 http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/w/wheel.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 19:34:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D391B16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta2.adelphia.net (mta2.adelphia.net [68.168.78.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C746E43D49 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:34:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031221025746.YSTJ2393.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:57:46 -0500 Message-ID: <3FE50C2A.80009@potentialtech.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:57:46 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More trivia: origin of the wheel group X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 03:34:21 -0000 Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Bill Moran wrote: > >>Does anyone know why the wheel group is called "wheel"? I mean, why not >>"admins" or something like that. "wheel" certainly is a cryptic name for >>the administrators group. Anyone have any idea why it's called "wheel"? > > The guy who wrote the group functionality was both a buddhist and a > Journey fan. He was listening to "Wheel in the Sky" while trying to > figure out a way to give more people administrative rights without giving > too much access. In a fit of enlightment, he came up with a special group > for administrators. Since they were the ones who kept things turning, it > only seemed appropriate that "wheel" be immortalized in the /etc/group > file. > > True story! Go on ... pull the other one! -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 20:00:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD3016A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B5643D49 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:00:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (dsl-213-023-058-033.arcor-ip.net [213.23.58.33]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C93538B07 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:00:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBL40J5Y085039 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:00:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hBL40Jl3085038 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:00:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:00:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <3FE500F4.3060108@potentialtech.com> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More trivia: origin of the wheel group X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:00:23 -0000 Bill Moran wrote: > Does anyone know why the wheel group is called "wheel"? Have you considered looking this up in the Jargon File? ESR may be a Linux zealot, hold controversial political opinions, and look a bit like Quasimodo, but the Jargon File *is* a valuable resource for this sort of arcana. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 20 20:25:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84A316A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.pressenter.com (hermes.pressenter.com [69.58.128.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC4443D53 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:25:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nospam@hiltonbsd.com) Received: from [69.58.128.153] (helo=daggar.sbgnet.local) by hermes.pressenter.com with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AXv9v-0004Ue-00; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:25:40 -0600 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 22:25:38 -0600 From: Stephen Hilton To: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Message-Id: <20031220222538.59516acf.nospam@hiltonbsd.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.8a (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spam educates X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:25:43 -0000 On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:03:16 +0000 (UTC) naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) wrote: > It's amazing, but if you get enough spam you can actually learn > things from it. > > I didn't realize that in Italian "piacere" is conjugated with > "essere", until I saw it in a spam subject. (I don't really know > Italian and approach it from French.) > > One spam finally spelled out what that mysterious term "MILF" means, > although it turns out to be rather crude. > > Lately, I've realized that "Paris Hilton" apparently is a person > and not a hotel, which makes some of those spam subjects much more > sensible. > > Maybe I should arrange for the proper display of Asian scripts? A > fountain of knowledge awaits! /me is wondering how many of my future emails will be sent to the black hole ;-) Stephen Hilton nospam@hiltonbsd.com