From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 04:29:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA7337B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 04:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.huji.ac.il (cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B73D43F3F for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 04:29:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alsbergt@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from lurch.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.139] ident=exim) by cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 19RVhI-000DZA-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:29:20 +0300 Received: from alsbergt by lurch.cs.huji.ac.il with local (Exim 4.12) id 19RVhI-000AM2-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:29:20 +0300 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:29:20 +0300 From: Tom Alsberg To: FreeBSD Hackers List Message-ID: <20030615112920.GA39687@cs.huji.ac.il> Mail-Followup-To: Tom Alsberg , FreeBSD Hackers List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Face: "5"j@Y1Peoz1; ftTv>\|['ox-csmV+:_RDNdi/2lSe2x?0:HVAeVW~ajwQ7RfDlcb^18eJ; t,O,s5-aNdU/DJ2E8h1s,..4}N9$27u`pWmH|; s!zlqqVwr9R^_ji=1\3}Z6gQBYyQ]{gd5-V8s^fYf{$V2*_&S>eA|SH@Y\hOVUjd[5eah{EO@gCr.ydSpJHJIU[QsH~bC?$C@O:SzF=CaUxp80-iknM(]q(W List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:29:24 -0000 Hi there. I recently stumbled upon a crash in the union filesystem. It seems that when trying to stat "/." where file is a regular (non-directory) file in a union mounted filesystem, the system will panic. I first noticed this as an effect of zsh (Z shell)'s tab completion, which after I checked, tries to lstat "/." if there are no other completions and the file exists, to see if it is a directory with other files in it which it should try to complete (I do not know why they chose to do it this way). It seems like a bug in the union filesystem to me. I can reproduce it on both 4.8-STABLE and 5.1-CURRENT. Simplest way I reproduce it: # Create two directories somewhere: cd /var/tmp mkdir foo mkdir bar # union-mount one on top of the other: mount -t union bar foo # enter the mounted directory, create a regular file there, and read # /.: cd foo touch meow cat meow/. Everywhere I checked, there is a panic at that point: panic: union_lookup returning . (0xc8d83edc) not same as startdir (0xc8cb2e00) Relevant part of a backtrace (with gdb -k on saved core files of a 4.8-CURRENT kernel compiled with debugging): #0 dumpsys () at /r+d/4.8/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:487 #1 0xc022b067 in boot (howto=256) at /r+d/4.8/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:316 #2 0xc022b4a5 in panic ( fmt=0xc0420e80 "union_lookup returning . (%p) not same as startdir (%p)") at /r+d/4.8/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:595 #3 0xc02674b8 in union_lookup (ap=0xc8d83d70) at /r+d/4.8/src/sys/miscfs/union/union_vnops.c:615 #4 0xc02577fd in lookup (ndp=0xc8d83ec8) at vnode_if.h:52 #5 0xc02572f8 in namei (ndp=0xc8d83ec8) at /r+d/4.8/src/sys/kern/vfs_lookup.c:153 #6 0xc025fd43 in vn_open (ndp=0xc8d83ec8, fmode=1, cmode=0) at /r+d/4.8/src/sys/kern/vfs_vnops.c:138 #7 0xc025be78 in open (p=0xc8d74ac0, uap=0xc8d83f80) at /r+d/4.8/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:1029 #8 0xc03c5a45 in syscall2 (frame={tf_fs = 47, tf_es = 47, tf_ds = 47, tf_edi = 134564005, tf_esi = -1077939303, tf_ebp = -1077939744, tf_isp = -925351980, tf_ebx = -1077939304, tf_edx = 134578912, tf_ecx = 1, tf_eax = 5, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134531788, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 663, tf_esp = -1077939788, tf_ss = 47}) at /r+d/4.8/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c:1175 #9 0xc03b5995 in Xint0x80_syscall () I looked a bit at the code of the union filesystem, and the best I know until now is that it is because of union_allocvp putting NULL in (*ap->a_vpp) in (src/sys/miscfs/union/union_vnops.c, union_lookup(...), about line 543): error = union_allocvp(ap->a_vpp, dvp->v_mount, dvp, upperdvp, cnp, uppervp, lowervp, 1); which later triggers (src/sys/miscfs/union/union_vnops.c, union_lookup(...), about line 573): #ifdef DIAGNOSTIC if (cnp->cn_namelen == 1 && cnp->cn_nameptr[0] == '.' && *ap->a_vpp != dvp) { panic("union_lookup returning . (%p) not same as startdir (%p)", ap->a_vpp, dvp); } #endif But I'm not sure what exactly is wrong in or before union_allocvp, and right now I don't yet understand what's exactly going on in the code there (I'm not exactly sure what the DIAGNOSTIC marked code is doing there - what is it for, and why is this specific case special?, but I see union_lookup would just fail (and not panic) without it, so that's perhaps a workaround)... Can someone with more experience/understanding of the union filesystem take a look at this? Thanks, -- Tom -- Tom Alsberg - hacker (being the best description fitting this space) Web page: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~alsbergt/ DISCLAIMER: The above message does not even necessarily represent what my fingers have typed on the keyboard, save anything further. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 07:23:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9020737B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp (nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp [61.202.250.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A8D43F85 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nork@FreeBSD.org) Received: from nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp (nadesico.ninth-nine.com [192.168.36.3]) by nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp (8.12.9/8.12.9/NinthNine) with SMTP id h5FENf1I056184; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:23:41 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from nork@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:23:41 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200306151423.h5FENf1I056184@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> From: Norikatsu Shigemura To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20030615001154.GA1373@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <200306142005.h5EK5s1I017984@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> <20030615001154.GA1373@rot13.obsecurity.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] CPUTYPE reflects to FFLAGS in bsd.cpu.mk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:23:43 -0000 On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:11:55 -0700 Kris Kennaway wrote: > > .if !defined(NO_CPU_CFLAGS) > > CFLAGS += ${_CPUCFLAGS} > > +FFLAGS += ${_CPUCFLAGS} > > .endif > The better place to do this would be in sys.mk. See how CXXFLAGS is handled there. Humm.. Like following diff? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Index: bsd.cpu.mk =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/share/mk/bsd.cpu.mk,v retrieving revision 1.28 diff -u -r1.28 bsd.cpu.mk --- bsd.cpu.mk 22 May 2003 16:56:46 -0000 1.28 +++ bsd.cpu.mk 15 Jun 2003 14:20:03 -0000 @@ -142,9 +142,3 @@ .if ${MACHINE_ARCH} == "alpha" _CPUCFLAGS += -mieee .endif - -# NB: COPTFLAGS is handled in /usr/src/sys/conf/Makefile. - -.if !defined(NO_CPU_CFLAGS) -CFLAGS += ${_CPUCFLAGS} -.endif Index: sys.mk =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/share/mk/sys.mk,v retrieving revision 1.67 diff -u -r1.67 sys.mk --- sys.mk 1 Jun 2003 22:13:45 -0000 1.67 +++ sys.mk 15 Jun 2003 14:21:37 -0000 @@ -40,6 +40,9 @@ CC ?= cc .endif CFLAGS ?= -O -pipe +.if !defined(NO_CPU_CFLAGS) +CFLAGS += ${_CPUCFLAGS} +.endif CXX ?= c++ CXXFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS:C/-std=[a-z:0-9]+//} @@ -64,6 +67,9 @@ .else FC ?= f77 FFLAGS ?= -O +.endif +.if !defined(NO_CPU_FFLAGS) +FFLAGS += ${_CPUCFLAGS} .endif EFLAGS ?= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 08:51:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EB637B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (ip114.bella-vista.sfo.interquest.net [66.199.86.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BA143F93 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:51:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FFp0q7001489; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5FFow3Z001488; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:50:58 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Tom Alsberg , FreeBSD Hackers List Message-ID: <20030615155058.GA1405@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: Tom Alsberg , FreeBSD Hackers List References: <20030615112920.GA39687@cs.huji.ac.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030615112920.GA39687@cs.huji.ac.il> Subject: Re: (bug?) panic in union filesystem - file/. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:51:31 -0000 On Sun, Jun 15, 2003, Tom Alsberg wrote: > I recently stumbled upon a crash in the union filesystem. It seems > that when trying to stat "/." where file is a regular > (non-directory) file in a union mounted filesystem, the system will > panic. > > I first noticed this as an effect of zsh (Z shell)'s tab completion, > which after I checked, tries to lstat "/." if there are no other > completions and the file exists, to see if it is a directory with > other files in it which it should try to complete (I do not know why > they chose to do it this way). > > It seems like a bug in the union filesystem to me. I can reproduce it > on both 4.8-STABLE and 5.1-CURRENT. This problem is on my TODO list, but it may take me a while before I have a chance to look at it. It would help me to keep track of it if you could file what you just said (verbatim, even) as a followup to kern/53004, though. Thanks for investigating the issue! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 08:55:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A293537B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mundomateo.com (24-56-193-117.mdmmi.voyager.net [24.56.193.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E398143FBF for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:55:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matthew@mundomateo.com) Received: from mundomateo.com (localhost.mundomateo.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mundomateo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 50CEF5CB7 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 10.0.81.10 (SquirrelMail authenticated user matthew) by www.mundomateo.com with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:55:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew Hagerty" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 RC2a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Subject: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: matthew@mundomateo.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:55:33 -0000 Greetings, I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. kqueue and kevent are going to do it for me on *BSD, but I'm also trying to support *cough* linux and other UN*X types OSes. >From what I can find on google, the linux community seems very opposed to kqueue and has not yet implemented it (they say: blah blah blah, aio_*, blah blah balh.) What alternatives do I have with OSes that don't support kqueue? I'd really hate to poll with stat(), but do I have any other choices? Thanks, Matthew From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 09:59:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8662C37B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C170E43F93 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:59:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5FGveYA099163; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:57:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h5FGvewG099160; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:57:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:57:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Matthew Hagerty In-Reply-To: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:59:20 -0000 On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another > process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. kqueue and kevent are going to > do it for me on *BSD, but I'm also trying to support *cough* linux and > other UN*X types OSes. > > >From what I can find on google, the linux community seems very opposed > to kqueue and has not yet implemented it (they say: blah blah blah, > aio_*, blah blah balh.) What alternatives do I have with OSes that > don't support kqueue? I'd really hate to poll with stat(), but do I > have any other choices? I was recently told about a library named libevent from Niels Provos, which abstracts a variety of underlying event mechanisms behind a common API. You can learn a bit more about it here: http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/ It doesn't appear to support /dev/poll yet, but the web page suggests such support is planned. If it's not already a port, we should create one. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 10:26:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4867C37B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.161.78.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F86C43F93 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:26:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oremanj@adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) Received: (qmail 5009 invoked by uid 1001); 15 Jun 2003 17:29:02 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:29:02 -0700 From: Joshua Oreman To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030615172902.GB4882@webserver.get-linux.org> References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:26:42 -0000 On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another > process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. kqueue and kevent are going to > do it for me on *BSD, but I'm also trying to support *cough* linux and > other UN*X types OSes. > > >From what I can find on google, the linux community seems very opposed > to kqueue and has not yet implemented it (they say: blah blah blah, > aio_*, blah blah balh.) What alternatives do I have with OSes that > don't support kqueue? I'd really hate to poll with stat(), but do I > have any other choices? I would say, use select(2). Is there a reason this wouldn't work? -- Josh From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 11:01:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AACE37B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccimhc02.asp.att.net (sccimhc02.asp.att.net [63.240.76.164]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C37743FA3 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:01:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from math.missouri.edu (12-216-242-20.client.mchsi.com[12.216.242.20]) by sccimhc02.asp.att.net (sccimhc02) with SMTP id <20030615180031im20081sfbe>; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:00:31 +0000 Message-ID: <3EECB43F.8010609@math.missouri.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:00:31 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030611 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> <20030615172902.GB4882@webserver.get-linux.org> In-Reply-To: <20030615172902.GB4882@webserver.get-linux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:01:07 -0000 Joshua Oreman wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > >>I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another >>process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. kqueue and kevent are going to >>do it for me on *BSD, but I'm also trying to support *cough* linux and >>other UN*X types OSes. >> >>>From what I can find on google, the linux community seems very opposed >>to kqueue and has not yet implemented it (they say: blah blah blah, >>aio_*, blah blah balh.) What alternatives do I have with OSes that >>don't support kqueue? I'd really hate to poll with stat(), but do I >>have any other choices? > > > I would say, use select(2). > Is there a reason this wouldn't work? > > -- Josh Either select(2) or poll(2) should work. -- Stephen Montgomery-Smith stephen@math.missouri.edu http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 12:10:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3DF37B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hysteria.spc.org (hysteria.spc.org [195.206.69.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D49943F85 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:10:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bms@hysteria.spc.org) Received: (qmail 30852 invoked by uid 5013); 15 Jun 2003 19:09:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:09:23 +0100 From: Bruce M Simpson To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030615190923.GJ23471@spc.org> Mail-Followup-To: Bruce M Simpson , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Test post (please ignore) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:10:48 -0000 Testing posts to lists hosted on hub to ensure my colo's reverse DNS delegation is working correctly. Please ignore. If it works, I'll probably be much more talkative on here than I have been for the past 9 months or something ridiculous. BMS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 15:46:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB82937B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.139]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 496BD43F75 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:46:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfl9h.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.213.49] helo=mindspring.com) by puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19RgGB-0007BS-00; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:46:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3EECF6E3.4BC96474@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:44:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: matthew@mundomateo.com References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4dcbb7d3923853de9ce4ac3ecec3c6eb2a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:46:09 -0000 Matthew Hagerty wrote: > I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another > process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. kqueue and kevent are going to do > it for me on *BSD, but I'm also trying to support *cough* linux and other > UN*X types OSes. > > >From what I can find on google, the linux community seems very opposed to > kqueue and has not yet implemented it (they say: blah blah blah, aio_*, > blah blah balh.) What alternatives do I have with OSes that don't support > kqueue? I'd really hate to poll with stat(), but do I have any other > choices? The Linux community doesn't like level triggered instead of edge triggered. Basically, the KNOTE macro need another parameter, which can be used as a rendesvous between a kevent and user space. It has the advantage of not limiting the PID's to 16 bits, as well. I posted patches for this about 6 months ago. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 17:05:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A5537B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B9743FB1 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:05:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dds76@earthlink.net) Received: from user-38qqpva.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.173.103.234] helo=derekb4o1lme03) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19RhUr-00017X-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:05:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c3339a$f4ab8f10$ea67add1@derekb4o1lme03> From: "Derek Santamassino" To: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:05:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:05:20 -0000 dds76@earthlink.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 17:12:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306FB37B40C for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F6C43F93 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:12:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dds76@earthlink.net) Received: from user-38qqpva.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.173.103.234] helo=derekb4o1lme03) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19RhcF-0002Rx-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:12:56 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c3339c$05a41520$ea67add1@derekb4o1lme03> From: "Derek Santamassino" To: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:12:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:12:57 -0000 Hi, I need some help with FreeBSD 4.8 Release. I installed FreeBSD. It = does not recognize my hardware. After the installation it goes right to = command prompt instead of going to desktop. My hardware needs to be = configured. Can someone help me configure my hardware? I have compaq = MV540 color monitor. PCTEL Platinum V. 90 modem. Cirrus logic PCI video = card. Intel(r) Integrated Audio. PS/s wheel mouse. That is a list of = most of my hardware. Please e-mail me back as soon as you get this e-mail at = dds76@earthlink.net. I'm a total beginner with any Unix or Linux base = systems. Thank You. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 17:30:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8F637B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genua.rfc-networks.ie (genua.rfc-networks.ie [62.77.182.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182A243F75 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:30:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie) Received: from tear.domain (unknown [10.0.1.254]) by genua.rfc-networks.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3148548AD for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:29:57 +0100 (IST) Received: by tear.domain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EC10121150; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:29:57 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:29:57 +0000 From: Philip Reynolds To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030616002957.GB26156@rfc-networks.ie> References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE X-URL: http://www.rfc-networks.ie Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:30:01 -0000 Robert Watson 30 lines of wisdom included: > I was recently told about a library named libevent from Niels Provos, > which abstracts a variety of underlying event mechanisms behind a common > API. You can learn a bit more about it here: > > http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/ Yes, it's recently been stuck into NetBSD. http://tardis.redbrick.dcu.ie/1301/groups.google.com Phil. -- Philip Reynolds | RFC Networks Ltd. philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie | +353 (0)1 8832063 http://people.rfc-networks.ie/~phil | www.rfc-networks.ie From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 17:43:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3683737B401; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-169-104-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.169.104.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813B043F85; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D6666B9B; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2876BAE9; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:43:50 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Norikatsu Shigemura Message-ID: <20030616004350.GA34076@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <200306142005.h5EK5s1I017984@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> <20030615001154.GA1373@rot13.obsecurity.org> <200306151423.h5FENf1I056184@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306151423.h5FENf1I056184@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] CPUTYPE reflects to FFLAGS in bsd.cpu.mk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:43:51 -0000 --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 11:23:41PM +0900, Norikatsu Shigemura wrote: > Humm.. Like following diff? Not really what I had in mind. > CXXFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS:C/-std=[a-z:0-9]+//} FFLAGS should be set similar to this. Kris --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+7RLFWry0BWjoQKURAuEOAJ9BFY9734uqGPKzAn+LBLepPEoPlgCggYxs YYuzhbaw2rGUR5faz3PAvD4= =EyiN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 18:37:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDBF37B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.161.78.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CBEE43FAF for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oremanj@adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) Received: (qmail 8223 invoked by uid 1001); 16 Jun 2003 01:39:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:39:22 -0700 From: Joshua Oreman To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030616013922.GE7994@webserver.get-linux.org> References: <000801c3339c$05a41520$ea67add1@derekb4o1lme03> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000801c3339c$05a41520$ea67add1@derekb4o1lme03> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: your mail X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:37:03 -0000 On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 08:12:47PM -0400 or thereabouts, Derek Santamassino seemed to write: > Hi, I need some help with FreeBSD 4.8 Release. I installed > FreeBSD. It does not recognize my hardware. After the installation > it goes right to command prompt instead of going to desktop. My > hardware needs to be configured. Can someone help me configure my > hardware? I have compaq MV540 color monitor. PCTEL Platinum V. 90 > modem. Cirrus logic PCI video card. Intel(r) Integrated Audio. PS/s > wheel mouse. That is a list of most of my hardware. > > Please e-mail me back as soon as you get this e-mail at > dds76@earthlink.net. I'm a total beginner with any Unix or Linux > base systems. Thank You. [This is a general question - moved to -questions mailing list] -- Josh > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To > unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 18:50:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4D737B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mundomateo.com (24-56-193-117.mdmmi.voyager.net [24.56.193.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F277B43F3F for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:50:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matthew@mundomateo.com) Received: from mundomateo.com (localhost.mundomateo.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mundomateo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FB4F5CCB for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 10.0.81.10 (SquirrelMail authenticated user matthew) by www.mundomateo.com with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1183.10.0.81.10.1055728224.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> In-Reply-To: <3EECB43F.8010609@math.missouri.edu> References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com><20030615172902.GB4882 @webserver.get-linux.org> <3EECB43F.8010609@math.missouri.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:50:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew Hagerty" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 RC2a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: matthew@mundomateo.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:50:26 -0000 > Joshua Oreman wrote: >> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Matthew Hagerty wrote: >> >>>I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another >>>process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. kqueue and kevent are going to >>>do it for me on *BSD, but I'm also trying to support *cough* linux and >>>other UN*X types OSes. >>> >>>>From what I can find on google, the linux community seems very opposed >>>to kqueue and has not yet implemented it (they say: blah blah blah, >>>aio_*, blah blah balh.) What alternatives do I have with OSes that >>>don't support kqueue? I'd really hate to poll with stat(), but do I >>>have any other choices? >> >> >> I would say, use select(2). >> Is there a reason this wouldn't work? >> >> -- Josh > > > Either select(2) or poll(2) should work. > > > > -- > Stephen Montgomery-Smith > stephen@math.missouri.edu > http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen > Last time I did a test, it seemed that I could not read to the end of a file that another process was writing to, without calling stat() to get the real size? So, I open the file for reading, and read/process the data until EOF, at which point I... ? call select()? What should I be watching for if another process is doing the writing? Will my select() return if I'm watching for a ready to read condition while another process is writing? While writing this response I'm thinking of a function I didn't know about that I saw in forward.c (part of the tail command's code), clearerr(). If I hit EOF, and another process writes to the file, will calling clearerr() on my file pointer allow me to continue reading the new data that was just written by the other process? Am I making sense? Thanks for the insight! Matthew From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 20:14:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0B737B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.161.78.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 644D543F3F for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oremanj@adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) Received: (qmail 9048 invoked by uid 1001); 16 Jun 2003 03:16:35 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:16:35 -0700 From: Joshua Oreman To: Matthew Hagerty Message-ID: <20030616031635.GA8974@webserver.get-linux.org> References: <3EECB43F.8010609@math.missouri.edu> <1183.10.0.81.10.1055728224.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1183.10.0.81.10.1055728224.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:14:16 -0000 On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 09:50:24PM -0400 or thereabouts, Matthew Hagerty seemed to write: > > Joshua Oreman wrote: > >> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > >> > >>>I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another > >>>process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. kqueue and kevent are going to > >>>do it for me on *BSD, but I'm also trying to support *cough* linux and > >>>other UN*X types OSes. > >>> > >>>>From what I can find on google, the linux community seems very opposed > >>>to kqueue and has not yet implemented it (they say: blah blah blah, > >>>aio_*, blah blah balh.) What alternatives do I have with OSes that > >>>don't support kqueue? I'd really hate to poll with stat(), but do I > >>>have any other choices? > >> > >> > >> I would say, use select(2). > >> Is there a reason this wouldn't work? > >> > >> -- Josh > > > > > > Either select(2) or poll(2) should work. > > > > > > > > -- > > Stephen Montgomery-Smith > > stephen@math.missouri.edu > > http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen > > > > Last time I did a test, it seemed that I could not read to the end of a > file that another process was writing to, without calling stat() to get > the real size? > > So, I open the file for reading, and read/process the data until EOF, at > which point I... ? call select()? What should I be watching for if > another process is doing the writing? Will my select() return if I'm > watching for a ready to read condition while another process is writing? > > While writing this response I'm thinking of a function I didn't know about > that I saw in forward.c (part of the tail command's code), clearerr(). If > I hit EOF, and another process writes to the file, will calling clearerr() > on my file pointer allow me to continue reading the new data that was just > written by the other process? Am I making sense? Are you using (FILE *) file pointers or (int) file descriptors? I recommend you use file pointers for this program; easier line input. However, select() needs a file descriptor, which you can obtain with fileno(my_file_pointer). Here's some pseudocode (assuming you want to print the data): FILE *file; char buffer[101]; fd_set readfds; file = fopen ("/path/to/my/file"); while (fgets (buffer, 100, file)) fputs (buffer, stdout); clearerr (file); FD_ZERO (&readfds); FD_SET (fileno (file), &readfds); while (1) { select (fileno (file), &readfds, (fd_set *)0, (fd_set *)0, (struct timeval *)0); while (fgets (buffer, 100, file)) fputs (buffer, stdout); clearerr (file); } Note: it's not tested, it is very realistic pseudocode but it is pseudocode after all :-) -- Josh > > Thanks for the insight! > > Matthew > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 20:50:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2204537B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (revolt.poohsticks.org [63.227.60.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613E543FBF for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:50:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revolt.poohsticks.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h5G3oLJ86735; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:50:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Message-Id: <200306160350.h5G3oLJ86735@revolt.poohsticks.org> To: Joshua Oreman In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:29:02 PDT." <20030615172902.GB4882@webserver.get-linux.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <86732.1055735421.1@revolt.poohsticks.org> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:50:21 -0600 From: Drew Eckhardt cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:50:55 -0000 In message <20030615172902.GB4882@webserver.get-linux.org>, oremanj@www.get-lin ux.org writes: >I would say, use select(2). >Is there a reason this wouldn't work? fd_set size... -- Home Page For those who do, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 21:23:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7C937B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from claygirl.org (ip68-101-207-85.sd.sd.cox.net [68.101.207.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D3143FD7 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yussef@claygirl.org) Received: from marathon.claygirl.org ([192.168.1.2]) by claygirl.org with smtp (Exim 4.14) id 19RlXf-0003oK-0l for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:24:27 -0700 From: yussef To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:24:27 -0700 Subject: weird sound problem requires odd config tweak X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 04:23:04 -0000 Im running 4.8 on my Laptop, with the following sound hardware: # dmesg |grep pcm pcm0: port 0x3400-0x34ff mem 0x24003000-0x24003fff irq 5 at device 1.4 on pci0 pcm0: I have 'device pcm' compiled into the kernel and thats all ive done to enable sound. The first time i went to play an mp3 [with xmms] it started playing fine...for the first 11 seconds. Then it just stopped. For a while i was not able to get sound working, for more than 11 seconds. And after it plays that initial 11 seconds, i cannot get it to play at all again, but if i were to reboot, it would again play for 11 seconds, only on the first try. [initially it always seemed to play for exactly 11 seconds. this doesnt seem to be the case anymore, but it does generally seem to be the most predictable value, and it never has played over the 11 seconds]. Eventually i did figure out some ways to get audio playing. Ive narrowed it down to a relatively quick and simple few steps to get audio working quite reliably. Worth noting is that video [such as playing a dvd of a vid from my hard drive] seemed to suffer from this same issue. But when i configure the audio to work, the video then also plays fine. the steps i take to get audio working are as follow: 1)start xmms [in theory this could probably be another audio app, but ive stuck with using xmms in this process] 2)play an audio file until it stop [<=11 seconds] 3)once the audio has stopped close xmms [click on 'x' to close] i close xmms directly. ive found that stopping it first can either yield this prodecure useless and/or force xmms to freeze, requiring a killall xmms to get rid of the process. 4)now i set a couple sysctl's: #hw.snd.maxautovchans=4 hw.snd.maxautovchans: 0 -> 4 #hw.snd.pcm0.vchans=4 hw.snd.pcm0.vchans: 1 -> 4 ive also used 5 for the above values, and it seems to work equally well. so i assume the actual value isnt overly important. 5) fire up xmms. it will complain about audio device not being available. going into xmms options and changing the sound device to a new vchan will fix this. and now xmms will play fine[as well as other a/v apps]. a few other things to note: # fstat |grep dsp luser xmms 386 11 / 1591 crw-rw-rw- dsp0.3 w luser xmms 370 11 / 1590 crw-rw-rw- dsp0.2 w it appears that sound requires a zombie process to be running otherwise it will not work. I tried different steps than the above mentioned ones, such as setting the sysctl values at bootup, but if that zombie process doesnt exist it doesnt seem to work. an alternative to the zombie process is this: i can open up xmms and play a song. when it stops playing just keep xmms open. then run mplayer and play a video, and it will play fine. however, xmms will not be able to play anything. [i can also reverse this procedure, and use mplayer to get xmms to play]. sound works fine under windows 2000 and linux. I am not sending this email so much because i want a solution, because the solution i stated above works well enough. But it seems like an odd problem, and beyond my level of knowledge to properly debug and attempt to fix. If this problem is already a known issue, i apologize, and please just point me in the right direction. Otherwise im more than willing to do whatever i can to help debug this problem, if it peaks anyones interest, or they have an idea of whats causing the problem. thank you for your time yussef From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 15 22:19:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D526D37B401 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BFF043FBD for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:19:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38ldt8g.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.245.16] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19RmOY-0005Lc-00; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:19:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3EED523B.B2543FF8@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:14:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Eckhardt References: <200306160350.h5G3oLJ86735@revolt.poohsticks.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4d91bd8025986c39d5902f2a4462f617d3ca473d225a0f487350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Joshua Oreman Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:19:20 -0000 Drew Eckhardt wrote: > In message <20030615172902.GB4882@webserver.get-linux.org>, oremanj@www.get-lin > ux.org writes: > >I would say, use select(2). > >Is there a reason this wouldn't work? > > fd_set size... That's inaccurate. In FreeBSD, select lists are permitted to be arbitrarily large. See the select code itself for details. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 02:39:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDFC37B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133AB43FBD for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:39:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5G9dYDo046875; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:09:34 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:09:33 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (*) CARRIAGE_RETURNS,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:39:39 -0000 I have 4.8 vintage PC with an Epox 8K9A9I motherboard (http://www.epox.com/html/motherboard.asp?product=EP-8K9AI&lang=1) which has an onboard vr(4) interface. I find that if the interface auto negotiates, it picks 100Mbit/FDX which matches the switch, but transfers are very bursty. If I force half duplex 100 or 10 mbit it works as I would expect (unbursty..). 10mbit/FDX is bursty as well. The switch is an Alloy NS-16J (http://www.alloy.com.au/products/ns16J.htm), and it works fine with other ethernet cards (Alloy 1430TX - http://www.alloy.com.au/products/Alloy1430.htm, and an Intel Etherexpress 10/100 in my laptop, plus various 10mbit PCMCIA cards) if_vr.c is at version 1.26.2.13 which I believe is quite recent, and most of the changes in -current after the MFC are not duplex related (from what I could see) Does anyone have any patches, or ideas/suggestions? Thanks. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 03:16:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63D137B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-relay1.barrysworld.com (ns1.barrysworld.com [213.221.172.238]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D334043F75 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:16:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from killing@barrysworld.com) Received: from [213.221.181.50] (helo=barrysworld.com) by smtp-relay1.barrysworld.com with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Rr2Q-0007Px-00; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:16:34 +0100 Received: from vader [212.135.219.179] by barrysworld.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9C6B6BF011C; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:19:50 +0100 Message-ID: <011201c333f0$5b96c140$b3db87d4@vader> From: "Steven Hartland" To: "Daniel O'Connor" , References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:16:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Steven Hartland List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:16:37 -0000 Have you tried hardcoding both the card and the switch that sometimes helps. Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 03:44:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0544C37B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk (chiark.greenend.org.uk [193.201.200.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7242A43FB1 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:44:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fanf@chiark.greenend.org.uk) Received: by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with local id 19RrTD-0006yV-00; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:44:15 +0100 To: oremanj@www.get-linux.org From: Tony Finch In-Reply-To: <20030615172902.GB4882@webserver.get-linux.org> References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Message-Id: Sender: Tony Finch Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:44:15 +0100 cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:44:18 -0000 Joshua Oreman wrote: >On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Matthew Hagerty wrote: >> >> I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another >> process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. > >I would say, use select(2). >Is there a reason this wouldn't work? Select doesn't work with files. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch http://dotat.at/ ST DAVIDS HEAD TO COLWYN BAY, INCLUDING ST GEORGES CHANNEL: VARIABLE 2 OR 3 BECOMING MAINLY SOUTHWEST TO WEST 2 OR 3, LOCALLY 3 OR 4. FAIR WITH ISOLATED SHOWERS AND SOME COASTAL MIST PATCHES. GOOD LOCALLY MODERATE OR POOR. SLIGHT. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 04:35:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D80737B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 04:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9850543F85 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 04:35:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfi6a.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.200.202] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19RsGW-00020F-00; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 04:35:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3EEDA76C.43795D89@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 04:18:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Finch References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4c54ec960071150b12c3c5d8ffae0139b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: oremanj@www.get-linux.org Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:35:23 -0000 Tony Finch wrote: > Joshua Oreman wrote: > >On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > >> > >> I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another > >> process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. > > > >I would say, use select(2). > >Is there a reason this wouldn't work? > > Select doesn't work with files. The current "tail -f" uses kqueue. The prior "tail -f" used to open the file, and fstat() it in a 1 second sleep() loop, looking for the file to get larger. So your "alternative to kqueue" is to sleep loop and fstat. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 06:18:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA77637B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp0.adl1.internode.on.net (smtp0.adl1.internode.on.net [203.16.214.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A69343F85 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:18:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from midget.dons.net.au (ppp137-120.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net [150.101.137.120])h5GDIZCT068894; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:48:40 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost.dons.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GDIB2n014628; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:48:14 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: "Steven Hartland" , Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:48:11 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <011201c333f0$5b96c140$b3db87d4@vader> In-Reply-To: <011201c333f0$5b96c140$b3db87d4@vader> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306162248.12012.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 () IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.26 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:18:57 -0000 On Monday 16 June 2003 19:46, Steven Hartland wrote: > Have you tried hardcoding both the card and the switch that sometimes > helps. I can't change the switch, it is relatively stupid. Also, I'd rather not have to do that - I can just put a Alloy 1430TX card in and know it's going to work :) I am more wondering if this is a known problem with the chipset, or the driver. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 08:10:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 491AF37B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.pair.com (relay.pair.com [209.68.1.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6DA0543FBF for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:10:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 30568 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 15:10:56 -0000 Received: from niwun.pair.com (HELO localhost) (209.68.2.70) by relay.pair.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 15:10:56 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 209.68.2.70 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:10:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Daniel O'Connor In-Reply-To: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> Message-ID: <20030616100658.X906@odysseus.silby.com> References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:10:58 -0000 On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > I have 4.8 vintage PC with an Epox 8K9A9I motherboard > (http://www.epox.com/html/motherboard.asp?product=EP-8K9AI&lang=1) which has > an onboard vr(4) interface. > > I find that if the interface auto negotiates, it picks 100Mbit/FDX which > matches the switch, but transfers are very bursty. If I force half duplex 100 > or 10 mbit it works as I would expect (unbursty..). 10mbit/FDX is bursty as > well. > > Does anyone have any patches, or ideas/suggestions? > > Thanks. > > -- > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer Well, there have been a few reports of similar problems. However, back when those reports came in, there were a bunch of other problems with our if_vr driver, so everyone gave up and switched network cards before we could get to the duplex autoneg problem. :) If possible, I'd like you to try some other brands of 100/FDX hubs and see if autonegotiation works properly; this would help tell us if the problem is general, or specific to that card. Also, can you post the dmesg output relating to your card? I'm curious which PHY device you have. Mike "Silby" Silbersack From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 10:08:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41AF337B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.161.78.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C02D43FCB for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oremanj@adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) Received: (qmail 57271 invoked by uid 1001); 16 Jun 2003 17:11:10 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:11:10 -0700 From: Joshua Oreman To: Tony Finch Message-ID: <20030616171110.GC56734@webserver.get-linux.org> References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:08:49 -0000 On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 11:44:15AM +0100 or thereabouts, Tony Finch seemed to write: > Joshua Oreman wrote: > >On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > >> > >> I'm writing a little application that needs to watch a file that another > >> process is writing to, think 'tail -F'. > > > >I would say, use select(2). > >Is there a reason this wouldn't work? > > Select doesn't work with files. Really? `man 2 select' says nothing about that. It just talks about 'file descriptors'. Now if it said 'socket descriptors' or 'non-file file descriptors' I would understand, but I don't think that that statement is implied by the man page. Is there something I'm missing? -- Josh > > Tony. > -- > f.a.n.finch http://dotat.at/ > ST DAVIDS HEAD TO COLWYN BAY, INCLUDING ST GEORGES CHANNEL: VARIABLE 2 OR 3 > BECOMING MAINLY SOUTHWEST TO WEST 2 OR 3, LOCALLY 3 OR 4. FAIR WITH ISOLATED > SHOWERS AND SOME COASTAL MIST PATCHES. GOOD LOCALLY MODERATE OR POOR. SLIGHT. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 10:26:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CC737B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice02.Princeton.EDU [128.112.130.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A5243F3F for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yruan@cs.princeton.edu) Received: from smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.148]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GHQAar009712 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.princeton.edu (targe.CS.Princeton.EDU [128.112.139.194]) (authenticated bits=0)h5GHQ9NX006882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EEDFC43.BD80B098@cs.princeton.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:20:03 -0400 From: Yaoping Ruan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Kernel Support for System Call Performance Monitoring X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:26:13 -0000 We have been working on improving Web server performance on FreeBSD, and think you may be interested in the results and techniques we used. Specifically, we focus on the SpecWeb99 benchmark and the Flash Web Server, and have roughly quadrupled its performance. We did this by adding support for a very low-cost kernel performance monitoring system, which allowed us to find and fix a number of bad interactions between the server and the OS. We additionally augmented one of the system calls, sendfile, to be more useful for this kind of server. We think that our observations may be useful for other servers, and may present opportunities for performance improvement in FreeBSD. A paper describing our system can be found at http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~yruan/DeBox and we can provide the patches we made if anyone's interested. We welcome any comments and feedback that you have. Sincerely - Yaoping yruan@cs.princeton.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 11:15:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C34D37B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.web.de (smtp03.web.de [217.72.192.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A4A43F93 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:15:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nakal@web.de) Received: from [217.81.252.114] (helo=pD951FC72.dip.t-dialin.net) by smtp.web.de with esmtp (WEB.DE 4.98 #232) id 19RyVX-0005FO-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:15:08 +0200 From: Nakal To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:15:06 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> Sender: nakal@web.de Subject: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:15:10 -0000 Hi, recently, I found vidcontrol and played a bit with it. I have been looking for documents about how to output pixels (graphics) on the terminal. I could not find any. Before I give up, I want to ask here, if it is possible to do that. What I want to do is to port my applications from Linux-framebuffer to FreeBSD, but I am also thinking about making a graphical installer for FreeBSD (eye-candy is always nice to attract new users). Thanks, Martin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 11:17:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4A037B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccimhc02.asp.att.net (sccimhc02.asp.att.net [63.240.76.164]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9389743FA3 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:17:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from math.missouri.edu (12-216-242-20.client.mchsi.com[12.216.242.20]) by sccimhc02.asp.att.net (sccimhc02) with SMTP id <20030616181715im2001qfgie>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:17:16 +0000 Message-ID: <3EEE09AB.2030609@math.missouri.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:17:15 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030611 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> <20030616171110.GC56734@webserver.get-linux.org> In-Reply-To: <20030616171110.GC56734@webserver.get-linux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:17:17 -0000 >>Select doesn't work with files. > > > Really? `man 2 select' says nothing about that. It just talks about > 'file descriptors'. Now if it said 'socket descriptors' or 'non-file > file descriptors' I would understand, but I don't think that that statement > is implied by the man page. Is there something I'm missing? > Well I did a little experimentation. It looks like this. select will say that a file is ready for reading if read(2) will not block. However, if you get to an end of file, then read does not block, rather it returns 0 to indicate end of file. Thus select will not block and will say that this file is ready for reading. In essence, calling select will always say that a file is ready for reading, and calling select serves no purpose. Well I definitely learned something. -- Stephen Montgomery-Smith stephen@math.missouri.edu http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 11:42:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34AB337B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.goamerica.net (ny-mx-01.goamerica.net [208.200.67.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EDE343FAF for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eaja@erols.com) Received: from localhost (165.sub-166-141-30.myvzw.com [166.141.30.165]) by smtp.goamerica.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h5GIflNf028291 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:39:36 -0400 From: Eric Jacobs To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030616143936.71007de2.eaja@erols.com> In-Reply-To: <20030616171110.GC56734@webserver.get-linux.org> References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> <20030616171110.GC56734@webserver.get-linux.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:42:10 -0000 On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:11:10 -0700 Joshua Oreman wrote: > On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 11:44:15AM +0100 or thereabouts, Tony Finch seemed to write: > > > > Select doesn't work with files. > > Really? `man 2 select' says nothing about that. It just talks about > 'file descriptors'. Now if it said 'socket descriptors' or 'non-file > file descriptors' I would understand, but I don't think that that statement > is implied by the man page. Is there something I'm missing? A file descriptor that references an ordinary vnode (file or directory) will always be "ready for I/O", because unlike a socket or pipe, it never needs to block in order to tell you if it's at EOF. So, while it works, and is logical, it isn't terribly useful. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 12:01:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B845537B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cyberonic.com (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B0243FAF for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:01:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (node-40244c0a.sfo.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.76.10]) by mail.cyberonic.com (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h5GJQaMo018713; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:26:37 -0400 Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.12.9/8.11.6) id h5GJ1Y3a011550; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:01:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:01:34 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Nakal Message-ID: <20030616190134.GO73854@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Nakal , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:01:03 -0000 Nakal wrote this message on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 20:15 +0200: > recently, I found vidcontrol and played a bit with it. I have been > looking for documents about how to output pixels (graphics) on the > terminal. I could not find any. Before I give up, I want to ask here, > if it is possible to do that. What I want to do is to port my > applications from Linux-framebuffer to FreeBSD, but I am also thinking > about making a graphical installer for FreeBSD (eye-candy is always > nice to attract new users). svgalib in ports works quite well for this. It even gives you a nice linear fb on some vga cards. There used to be an ioctl that would let you switch banks on the VGA card, but I can't seem to find it right now. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 12:13:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C2437B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.goamerica.net (ny-mx-01.goamerica.net [208.200.67.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8711143FA3 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eaja@erols.com) Received: from localhost (165.sub-166-141-30.myvzw.com [166.141.30.165]) by smtp.goamerica.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h5GJCXNf011582 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:10:24 -0400 From: Eric Jacobs To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> In-Reply-To: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:13:14 -0000 On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:15:06 +0200 Nakal wrote: > Hi, > > recently, I found vidcontrol and played a bit with it. I have been > looking for documents about how to output pixels (graphics) on the > terminal. See /usr/share/examples/libvgl > I could not find any. Before I give up, I want to ask here, > if it is possible to do that. What I want to do is to port my > applications from Linux-framebuffer to FreeBSD, but I am also thinking > about making a graphical installer for FreeBSD (eye-candy is always > nice to attract new users). I've been thinking about that too. The big question I have is whether it's a good idea to use a toolkit with a more restrictive license (GPL, LGPL, MPL), which would make it a lot easier, or come up with something that could be licensed under the BSD license. I know that FreeBSD has used the GPL'd libdialog in sysinstall for quite some time without problems, but maybe it is time to start thinking about something that is free in the BSD license sense. I don't think the advantage of a GUI-based installer would be "eye-candy". libdialog looks fine IMO. It would be to increase the ease of use, allow more flexibility in installations, and add more troubleshooting/diagnostic options (disabling/enabling/loading device drivers, etc.) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 12:18:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D2037B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B60B43F75 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (bicknell@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJIqaT052875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5GJIq3b052874 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:18:52 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> Organization: United Federation of Planets X-PGP-Key: http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:18:54 -0000 --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message written on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 03:10:24PM -0400, Eric Jacobs = wrote: > I don't think the advantage of a GUI-based installer would be > "eye-candy". libdialog looks fine IMO. It would be to increase the > ease of use, allow more flexibility in installations, and add more > troubleshooting/diagnostic options (disabling/enabling/loading > device drivers, etc.) Some of this could be done in the current installer, if there wasn't an effort to make it still fit on a floppy. Mind you, I'd like to see the floppy based install stick around for a while, but I think FreeBSD needs to embrace the CD reality. A problem, as I see it, is that the only bootable ISO is the full FreeBSD CD. For someone who wants to do a minimal net-install on a CD only computer that's too much. What I think needs to be done is the current installer enhanced (a few more tools for the emergency holographic shell, more help, etc), and produced in ISO form, eg a 3 to maybe 10 meg ISO image you could burn on CD and use like a floppy is used today. This frees up the size restrictions on the installer, and lets people without a floppy install easily, all without making anyone download a 600M file to do so. --=20 Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+7hgcNh6mMG5yMTYRAiHCAJ9vR0EM8ex6/YJSvm3SejlEClupUgCffmHY rZrqNa/9q3/2n2pvgQlUnpA= =F3QF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 12:44:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F38437B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5704243FA3 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:44:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (bicknell@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GJhxaT053786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5GJhxbH053785 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:43:59 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030616194359.GA53587@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: United Federation of Planets X-PGP-Key: http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Subject: Re: floppy.. Was: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:44:01 -0000 --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message written on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 12:37:08PM -0700, Julian Elisc= her wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Leo Bicknell wrote: > > Some of this could be done in the current installer, if there wasn't > > an effort to make it still fit on a floppy. Mind you, I'd like to see > > the floppy based install stick around for a while, but I think FreeBSD > > needs to embrace the CD reality. >=20 > We have over a thousand machines in teh field with no CD but they do > have floppies.. > we use the floppy when we upgrade.. It's still are requirement as far as > I'm concerened :-) Oh, absolutely, which is why I said it needs to stick around for a while. All I'm saying is it's clear a fancier installer needs more space than a floppy can provide, and since PC standards are going to a floppy-less PC it seems like making a bootable CD image is the way of the future. I don't think anyone argues that, my only suggestion is FreeBSD get there sooner rather than later, and do that by making a "minimal" install CD, rather than the complete CD's available today. Perhaps this can be done with a new GUI based installer as well, letting the new "CD-install" run in parallel with the "floppy install" for the 2-4 major versions necessary for it to be fully baked. Another idea is to make a floppy just smart enough to load the installer over the network, since PC's generally have more memory these days... --=20 Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+7h3/Nh6mMG5yMTYRAq78AJ9Y7BgRSiwhe5MbdWMv3XaD9qu/3QCfetRD nVWoWrhaIKwLi6v8KC/LOdc= =rcQ+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 12:46:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4668637B404 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from regina.plastikos.com (216-107-106-250.wan.networktel.net [216.107.106.250]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F13743FBD for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-33-235-56.jan.bellsouth.net [67.33.235.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by regina.plastikos.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333A66EECD for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 3D68C20F2F; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:46:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:46:25 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030616194625.GA1845@over-yonder.net> References: <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030616194359.GA53587@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030616194359.GA53587@ussenterprise.ufp.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD Subject: Re: floppy.. Was: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:46:32 -0000 On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 03:43:59PM -0400 I heard the voice of Leo Bicknell, and lo! it spake thus: > > Another idea is to make a floppy just smart enough to load the installer > over the network, since PC's generally have more memory these days... Many Linux dists seem to do something like this nowadays. Then you also only need enough drivers for the NIC; not even the floppy/CD, since you read that through the BIOS up until you've downloaded the installer and modules. It's got its downsides, to be sure, but it also has some positives. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 13:06:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC2A37B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arthur.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCFCE43FA3 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon@arthur.nitro.dk) Received: by arthur.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 54CCF10BF8B; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:06:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:06:18 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030616200616.GE400@nitro.dk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="o0ZfoUVt4BxPQnbU" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:06:21 -0000 --o0ZfoUVt4BxPQnbU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003.06.16 15:18:52 -0400, Leo Bicknell wrote: > In a message written on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 03:10:24PM -0400, Eric Jacob= s wrote: > > I don't think the advantage of a GUI-based installer would be > > "eye-candy". libdialog looks fine IMO. It would be to increase the > > ease of use, allow more flexibility in installations, and add more > > troubleshooting/diagnostic options (disabling/enabling/loading > > device drivers, etc.) >=20 > Some of this could be done in the current installer, if there wasn't > an effort to make it still fit on a floppy. Mind you, I'd like to see > the floppy based install stick around for a while, but I think FreeBSD > needs to embrace the CD reality. >=20 > A problem, as I see it, is that the only bootable ISO is the full > FreeBSD CD. For someone who wants to do a minimal net-install on > a CD only computer that's too much. What I think needs to be done > is the current installer enhanced (a few more tools for the emergency > holographic shell, more help, etc), and produced in ISO form, eg a > 3 to maybe 10 meg ISO image you could burn on CD and use like a > floppy is used today. This is why there are mini CD's. E.g. :=20 -rw-rw-r-- 1 1005 1005 237M 5 Jun 18:49 5.1-RELEASE-i386-miniinst.= iso Of course it's not just the installer but also enough to install the base system. If you want only the install it should be very easy to make your own ISO with only floppies/boot.flp (2.8MB) which would then contain only the installer... I'm not really sure how many drivers boot.flp contains though. --=20 Simon L. Nielsen --o0ZfoUVt4BxPQnbU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+7iM48kocFXgPTRwRAhi2AJ9HwRbI/1q88DTddczsbjNAPCBKaQCfeeZm z0cy3NhjF9wlqZGxqeB3gEI= =SrZF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --o0ZfoUVt4BxPQnbU-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 13:34:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F20837B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.web.de (smtp01.web.de [217.72.192.180]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B319143FA3 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:34:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nakal@web.de) Received: from [217.81.252.114] (helo=pD951FC72.dip.t-dialin.net) by smtp.web.de with esmtp (WEB.DE 4.98 #218) id 19S0gT-0006q4-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:34:33 +0200 From: Nakal To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:34:31 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> In-Reply-To: <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306162234.31795.nakal@web.de> Sender: nakal@web.de Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:34:36 -0000 On Monday 16 June 2003 21:10, Eric Jacobs wrote: > See /usr/share/examples/libvgl Yupp. That looks good. Thank you! > I've been thinking about that too. The big question I have is whether > it's a good idea to use a toolkit with a more restrictive license > (GPL, LGPL, MPL), which would make it a lot easier, or come up with > something that could be licensed under the BSD license. I know that > FreeBSD has used the GPL'd libdialog in sysinstall for quite some > time without problems, but maybe it is time to start thinking about > something that is free in the BSD license sense. I will make some experiments with libvgl first (e.g. porting my project, as I said before). I will make sure that I release my stuff (if I ever find time to make something) under the BSD-license. I like to "re-invent the wheel", sorry... :) That's why, _IF_ I write something, I want to make a new toolkit. I need to collect some ideas about the installer first. I have already started to plan something with XML-oriented forms, so developers don't need to mess with binaries to create configurations (I will take a look at Xerces C++, because it's under the Apache Software License which is also free enough). An XML-type configuration should be also fine to create paper documentations from the XML-code directly (optimally a few stylesheets should be enough). One further positive aspect of XML is that it can be validated and is strict enough to force the developer to do "the right thing". In fact, I have begun to make experiments in Java (also with XML; the resulting forms are in HTML) to write a configuration utility for all kinds of applications (including the FreeBSD kernel), but I don't think it is a good solution for FreeBSD. > I don't think the advantage of a GUI-based installer would be > "eye-candy". libdialog looks fine IMO. It would be to increase the > ease of use, allow more flexibility in installations, and add more > troubleshooting/diagnostic options (disabling/enabling/loading > device drivers, etc.) Yes, of course. Martin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 13:38:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 871C537B401; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:38:06 -0500 From: Juli Mallett To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Message-ID: <20030616153806.A42660@FreeBSD.org> References: <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030616194359.GA53587@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030616194625.GA1845@over-yonder.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20030616194625.GA1845@over-yonder.net>; from fullermd@over-yonder.net on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 02:46:25PM -0500 X-Title: Code Maven X-Towel: Yes X-Negacore: Yes X-Authentication-Warning: localhost: juli pwned teh intarweb cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: floppy.. Was: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:38:06 -0000 * "Matthew D. Fuller" [ Date: 2003-06-16 ] [ w.r.t. Re: floppy.. Was: Drawing graphics on terminal ] > On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 03:43:59PM -0400 I heard the voice of > Leo Bicknell, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > Another idea is to make a floppy just smart enough to load the installer > > over the network, since PC's generally have more memory these days... > > Many Linux dists seem to do something like this nowadays. Then you also > only need enough drivers for the NIC; not even the floppy/CD, since you > read that through the BIOS up until you've downloaded the installer and > modules. It's got its downsides, to be sure, but it also has some > positives. Not to turn this into too much of a bikeshed, but here's an idea I jotted down a while ago: %%% There has been a lot of talk about deprecation of floppies in upcoming releases, and I've been thinking a lot about whether or not we need to do this, and I've been thinking especially about when it makes sense to have the installer at all, and have come up with three cases, and how a floppy would fit in to them. This is intended to help come up with ways of having single-purpose floppies that are easier to keep small enough to fit on, well, floppies. 1) Network install. The floppy could include only network (and requisite) drivers, such that mass storage drivers could be pulled over the net at an early stage in the install. Ideally we would work from the information we gather about driverless devices to figure out what drivers may be appropriate, but letting the user select would be a must, as would possibly trying everything, with a suitable warning that drivers may be quite large. 2) CD-ROM install. The CD-ROM should be used for booting, or a floppy similar to that in case 3. should be used. 3) Install from other physical medium. No network drivers. Just storage (and requisite) driers of every common colour at the very least. Driver floppies could be available for the more bloated. No reason a user cannot run sysinstall after the system is installed to set up the network parameters they want, if they don't need them for the bootstrap install. This should probably not have netinet, etc., either. The idea is that people using floppies should be using them to get what they need up and running to install the base system, and that real configuration of all available hardware should be done once the kernel they will be running said configuration on is there. %%% I think I may have come up with some edge cases since then that I never wrote down, but I doubt they mattered much. Thanx, juli. -- juli mallett. email: jmallett@freebsd.org; efnet: juli; From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 13:46:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C276037B401; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (217-ip-163.nccn.net [209.79.217.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E56943F85; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GKkhM7049823; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:46:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200306162046.h5GKkhM7049823@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: jmallett@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20030616153806.A42660@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: fullermd@over-yonder.net Subject: Re: floppy.. Was: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:46:55 -0000 On 16 Jun, Juli Mallett wrote: > Not to turn this into too much of a bikeshed, but here's an idea I > jotted down a while ago: > > %%% > There has been a lot of talk about deprecation of floppies in upcoming > releases, and I've been thinking a lot about whether or not we need to > do this, and I've been thinking especially about when it makes sense > to have the installer at all, and have come up with three cases, and > how a floppy would fit in to them. This is intended to help come up > with ways of having single-purpose floppies that are easier to keep > small enough to fit on, well, floppies. I've thought for a long time that this is the best way to go. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 14:01:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CCB937B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice01.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D252043FA3 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:01:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yruan@cs.princeton.edu) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5GL1hqE023127; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.princeton.edu (targe.CS.Princeton.EDU [128.112.139.194]) (authenticated bits=0)h5GL1g0k010883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EEE2EC7.E7E34C9D@cs.princeton.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:55:35 -0400 From: Yaoping Ruan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ykk@rootdown.net References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Support for System Call Performance Monitoring X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:01:45 -0000 Hi, Thanks for your interests. Just clarify that it is not a patch to boost kernel performance, but for the performance debugging tool we built, DeBox. We should be able to release the patch in a few days. ykk@rootdown.net wrote: > I'd be very interested in a copy of the patches, I have several webservers > myself that I'm looking to improve the performance on. > > Thanks. Best - Yaoping From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 14:25:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF2437B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.goamerica.net (ny-mx-01.goamerica.net [208.200.67.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD9743FAF for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:25:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eaja@erols.com) Received: from localhost (165.sub-166-141-30.myvzw.com [166.141.30.165]) by smtp.goamerica.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h5GLPANf009365 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:23:54 -0400 From: Eric Jacobs To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030616172354.4850c3b2.eaja@erols.com> In-Reply-To: <20030616153806.A42660@FreeBSD.org> References: <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030616194359.GA53587@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030616194625.GA1845@over-yonder.net> <20030616153806.A42660@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: floppy.. Was: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:25:33 -0000 On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:38:06 -0500 Juli Mallett wrote: > 1) Network install. > The floppy could include only network (and requisite) drivers, > such that mass storage drivers could be pulled over the net at > an early stage in the install. Ideally we would work from the > information we gather about driverless devices to figure out > what drivers may be appropriate, but letting the user select > would be a must, as would possibly trying everything, with a > suitable warning that drivers may be quite large. > > 2) CD-ROM install. > The CD-ROM should be used for booting, or a floppy similar to > that in case 3. should be used. > > 3) Install from other physical medium. > No network drivers. Just storage (and requisite) driers of > every common colour at the very least. Driver floppies could > be available for the more bloated. No reason a user cannot run > sysinstall after the system is installed to set up the network > parameters they want, if they don't need them for the bootstrap > install. This should probably not have netinet, etc., I like these ideas. The one other thing I could imagine being useful would be a consoleless install via Ethernet. That could be managed though by having the network KLD's on the CD-ROM, since there wouldn't be a shortage of space. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 16:15:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16D937B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.attbi.com (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6235143F3F for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:15:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([12.233.125.100]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2003061619371001400ad9jfe>; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:37:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA20847; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:37:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Leo Bicknell In-Reply-To: <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: floppy.. Was: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:15:06 -0000 On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Leo Bicknell wrote: > > Some of this could be done in the current installer, if there wasn't > an effort to make it still fit on a floppy. Mind you, I'd like to see > the floppy based install stick around for a while, but I think FreeBSD > needs to embrace the CD reality. We have over a thousand machines in teh field with no CD but they do have floppies.. we use the floppy when we upgrade.. It's still are requirement as far as I'm concerened :-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 16:45:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED22237B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD8B43F75 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:45:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from ms-1 (ms-dienst.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.132]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGL00MIPLZELT@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:45:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by ms-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:45:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (postfix@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) h5GNjDNY004579; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:45:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33C82C; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:45:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 558D94738; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:45:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:45:11 +0200 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> To: Eric Jacobs Message-id: <20030616234510.GC3623@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=eRtJSFbw+EEWtPj3; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Nakal Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:45:40 -0000 --eRtJSFbw+EEWtPj3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 03:10:24PM -0400, Eric Jacobs wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:15:06 +0200 > Nakal wrote: >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > recently, I found vidcontrol and played a bit with it. I have been=20 > > looking for documents about how to output pixels (graphics) on the=20 > > terminal. >=20 > See /usr/share/examples/libvgl >=20 > > I could not find any. Before I give up, I want to ask here,=20 > > if it is possible to do that. What I want to do is to port my=20 > > applications from Linux-framebuffer to FreeBSD, but I am also thinking= =20 > > about making a graphical installer for FreeBSD (eye-candy is always=20 > > nice to attract new users). >=20 > I've been thinking about that too. The big question I have is whether > it's a good idea to use a toolkit with a more restrictive license > (GPL, LGPL, MPL), which would make it a lot easier, or come up with > something that could be licensed under the BSD license. I know that > FreeBSD has used the GPL'd libdialog in sysinstall for quite some > time without problems, but maybe it is time to start thinking about > something that is free in the BSD license sense. >=20 Well, the important thing is, that you have a core lib that provides all the functionality of the installer. A thing which linux in 2.5.x has already done and the libh project for FreeBSD aimed for. If you have a BSD licenced core-lib, the interface is fairly easy and can be easily replaced. So IMHO, the actual toolkit is not that important. > I don't think the advantage of a GUI-based installer would be > "eye-candy". libdialog looks fine IMO. It would be to increase the > ease of use, allow more flexibility in installations, and add more > troubleshooting/diagnostic options (disabling/enabling/loading > device drivers, etc.) The problem is not libdialog, but that sysinstall is not easy to enhance. It was never meant to stick around for such a long time :-) - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --eRtJSFbw+EEWtPj3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+7laGbHYXjKDtmC0RAqQDAKDywZzE74+YNi6OMpOABYDfePW/GACdF5lc pfTeAXNNtgsxKJy+/6Lwvbw= =5jJl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --eRtJSFbw+EEWtPj3-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 16:53:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1165537B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law11-f104.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.104]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A19043FDD for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from int0x80@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:53:50 -0700 Received: from 66.130.55.182 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:53:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.130.55.182] X-Originating-Email: [int0x80@hotmail.com] From: "Raunchy McSmutbag" To: nakal@web.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:53:50 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2003 23:53:50.0392 (UTC) FILETIME=[88D9CB80:01C33462] Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:53:51 -0000 if you wanna try something nice mmap() /dev/mem and write to VGA memory =D >From: Nakal >To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >Subject: Drawing graphics on terminal >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:15:06 +0200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mx2.freebsd.org ([216.136.204.119]) by >mc2-f25.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Mon, 16 >Jun 2003 11:15:44 -0700 >Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18])by >mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPid A79EA569CB; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 >11:15:19 -0700 (PDT)(envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) >Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])by hub.freebsd.org >(Postfix) with ESMTPid 8D01537B404; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:15:19 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])by >hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C34D37B401for >;Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:15:10 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from smtp.web.de (smtp03.web.de [217.72.192.158])by >mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A4A43F93for >;Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:15:09 -0700 >(PDT) (envelope-from nakal@web.de) >Received: from [217.81.252.114] (helo=pD951FC72.dip.t-dialin.net)by >smtp.web.de with esmtp (WEB.DE 4.98 #232)id 19RyVX-0005FO-00for >freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:15:08 +0200 >X-Message-Info: UZmYcfFpTCewzfqvyl1d15R59mlxBfYY >Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 >Message-Id: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> >X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to >FreeBSD >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >Errors-To: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >Return-Path: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2003 18:15:44.0856 (UTC) >FILETIME=[4DBAA580:01C33433] > > >Hi, > >recently, I found vidcontrol and played a bit with it. I have been >looking for documents about how to output pixels (graphics) on the >terminal. I could not find any. Before I give up, I want to ask here, >if it is possible to do that. What I want to do is to port my >applications from Linux-framebuffer to FreeBSD, but I am also thinking >about making a graphical installer for FreeBSD (eye-candy is always >nice to attract new users). > >Thanks, >Martin > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 17:22:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E1137B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from angelica.unixdaemons.com (angelica.unixdaemons.com [209.148.64.135]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0DBE43F85 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@technokratis.com) Received: from angelica.unixdaemons.com (bmilekic@localhost.unixdaemons.com [127.0.0.1])h5H0Mh8N016069; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bmilekic@localhost) by angelica.unixdaemons.com (8.12.9/8.12.1/Submit) id h5H0MhED016068; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:22:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@technokratis.com) X-Authentication-Warning: angelica.unixdaemons.com: bmilekic set sender to bmilekic@technokratis.com using -f Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:22:43 -0400 From: Bosko Milekic To: Yaoping Ruan Message-ID: <20030617002243.GA10983@technokratis.com> References: <3EEDFC43.BD80B098@cs.princeton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EEDFC43.BD80B098@cs.princeton.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Support for System Call Performance Monitoring X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:22:49 -0000 On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 01:20:03PM -0400, Yaoping Ruan wrote: > We have been working on improving Web server performance on > FreeBSD, and think you may be interested in the results and > techniques we used. Specifically, we focus on the SpecWeb99 > benchmark and the Flash Web Server, and have roughly quadrupled > its performance. We did this by adding support for a very > low-cost kernel performance monitoring system, which allowed > us to find and fix a number of bad interactions between the > server and the OS. We additionally augmented one of the system > calls, sendfile, to be more useful for this kind of server. > We think that our observations may be useful for other servers, > and may present opportunities for performance improvement in > FreeBSD. > > A paper describing our system can be found at > http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~yruan/DeBox and we can provide the > patches we made if anyone's interested. We welcome any comments > and feedback that you have. First off, thank you for choosing FreeBSD for your research. The more effort is put into doing this sort of research, the better it is for both the academic community and the industry. I've read your paper and have a few brief notes: - On DeBox implementation. I understand that the DeBox implementation is primarily a tool used for tracking down potential application bottlenecks and so the relative importance of the crudeness of the implementation is not so high. However, I'm looking at this from the perspective of introducing DeBox as a permanent option in FreeBSD, and two immediate problems are: 1) User-visible DeBoxInfo structure has the magic number "5" PerSleepInfo structs and the magic number "200" CallTrace structs. It seems that it would be somewhat less crude to turn the struct arrays in DeBoxInfo into pointers in which case you have several options. You could provide a library to link applications compiled for DeBox use with that would take care of allocating the space in which to store maxSleeps and maxTrace-worth of memory and hooking the data into resultBuf or providing the addresses as separate arguments to the DeBoxControl() system call. For what concerns the kernel, you could take a similar approach and dynamically pre-allocate the PerSleepInfo and CallTrace structures, based on the requirements given by the DeBoxControl system call. 2) The problem of modifying entry-exit paths in function calls. Admittedly, this is hard, but crudely modifying a select number of functions to Do The Right Thing for what concerns call tracing is hard to justify from a general perspective. I don't mean to spread FUD here; the change you made is totally OK from a measurement perspective and serves great for the paper, it's just tougher to integrate this stuff into the mainline code. - On the Case Study. I was most interested in the sendfile modifications you talk about and would be interested in seeing patches. I know that some of the modifications you mention have already been done in 5.x; Notably, if you have not already, you'll want to glance at: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/kern/uipc_syscalls.c? \ rev=1.144&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup (regarding your mapping caching in sf_bufs) and this [gigantic] thread: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=12432+15802+ \ /usr/local/www/db/text/2003/freebsd-arch/20030601.freebsd-arch (subject: sendfile(2) SF_NOPUSH flag proposal on freebsd-arch@, at least). You may want to contact Igor Sysoev or other concerned parties in that thread to show them that you actually have performance results resulting from such a change. Finally, I'd like to sort of make a longshot proposal; more of a "if you have the time" follow-up to your work that someone could be able to perform, and that would certainly be interesting to see: how all this works out when forward-ported to FreeBSD 5.x. > Sincerely > > - Yaoping > yruan@cs.princeton.edu Regards, -- Bosko Milekic * bmilekic@technokratis.com * bmilekic@FreeBSD.org TECHNOkRATIS Consulting Services * http://www.technokratis.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 18:08:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C27337B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B6543FBD for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:08:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5H18ODo060578; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:38:25 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Mike Silbersack Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:38:23 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <20030616100658.X906@odysseus.silby.com> In-Reply-To: <20030616100658.X906@odysseus.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306171038.23826.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:08:33 -0000 On Tuesday 17 June 2003 00:40, Mike Silbersack wrote: > Well, there have been a few reports of similar problems. However, back > when those reports came in, there were a bunch of other problems with our > if_vr driver, so everyone gave up and switched network cards before we > could get to the duplex autoneg problem. :) Hehe :) > If possible, I'd like you to try some other brands of 100/FDX hubs and see > if autonegotiation works properly; this would help tell us if the problem > is general, or specific to that card. I don't have any other brands of 100/FDX switches :( I will try and dig one up, but I think the best I can do is a different generation switch from the same manufacturer. > Also, can you post the dmesg output relating to your card? I'm curious > which PHY device you have. Duh, knew I forgot something.. vr0: port 0xe800-0xe8ff mem 0xdd006000-0xdd0060ff irq 11 at device 18.0 on pci0 vr0: Ethernet address: 00:04:61:49:23:7c miibus1: on vr0 ukphy0: on miibus1 ukphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto vr0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 203.31.81.48 netmask 0xffffffc0 broadcast 203.31.81.63 ether 00:04:61:49:23:7c media: Ethernet 100baseTX status: active -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 18:27:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9AE937B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cage.simianscience.com (cage.simianscience.com [64.7.134.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6D643FB1 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:27:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from house.sentex.net (fcage [192.168.0.2]) by cage.simianscience.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5H1QvlD013438 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:26:58 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030616210725.082e5240@192.168.0.12> X-Sender: mdtancsa@192.168.0.12 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:25:01 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: amavis-20020220 Subject: updating a routing table entry X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:27:03 -0000 I am trying to work around a problem, where a routing daemon (zebra) installs a subnet, that I then want to convert over to a connected route off an interface via ifconfig e.g. on vlan2 I want to add an interface on the subnet 12.0.0.112/28. Before the ifconfig I see # route get 12.0.0.112/28 route to: 12.0.0.112 destination: 12.0.0.112 mask: 255.255.255.240 gateway: 192.168.1.1 interface: vlan1 flags: recvpipe sendpipe ssthresh rtt,msec rttvar hopcount mtu expire 0 0 0 0 0 0 1500 0 In the case of the 12.0.0.112/28 network I guess i need to get the kernel and zebra to know that its not flags: but flags: and via vlan2 Short of killing the routing daemon, doing the ifconfig, is there another way to do this ? What about some ifconfig hackery ? Is this not where it dies ? if (newaddr && (setaddr || setmask)) { strncpy(afp->af_addreq, name, sizeof ifr.ifr_name); if (ioctl(s, afp->af_aifaddr, afp->af_addreq) < 0) Perror("ioctl (SIOCAIFADDR)"); } What if I added a check for a flag/param (e.g. -force) if (newaddr && (setaddr || setmask) && !FORCE ) { strncpy(afp->af_addreq, name, sizeof ifr.ifr_name); if (ioctl(s, afp->af_aifaddr, afp->af_addreq) < 0) Perror("ioctl (SIOCAIFADDR)"); } Is there a better way to do it ? ---Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Sentex Communications, mike@sentex.net Providing Internet since 1994 www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada www.sentex.net/mike From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 22:12:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE87237B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.139]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EA343F3F for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2injaq3.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.171.67] helo=mindspring.com) by puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19S8lN-0000pD-00; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:12:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3EEEA2E2.6E4A2409@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:10:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joshua Oreman References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> <20030616171110.GC56734@webserver.get-linux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4c58d8e6e73f7d48b9004c2415d6bc12a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: Tony Finch cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:12:26 -0000 Joshua Oreman wrote: > > >I would say, use select(2). > > >Is there a reason this wouldn't work? > > > > Select doesn't work with files. > > Really? `man 2 select' says nothing about that. It just talks about > 'file descriptors'. Now if it said 'socket descriptors' or 'non-file > file descriptors' I would understand, but I don't think that that statement > is implied by the man page. Is there something I'm missing? Select blocks on readfds if a read from the file would block; that is never the case with a file: you will either get data, or you will get an EOF. Select blocks on writefds if a write to the file would block; that is never the case with a file: you will either successfully write, or you will get an error, e.g. as a result of exceeding quota, etc.. Therefore a select for reads or writes on a disk file should always return true. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 23:11:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6826937B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.omnis.com (smtp.omnis.com [216.239.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8DC343F93 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.homeunix.net (66-91-236-204.san.rr.com [66.91.236.204]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571A85B6CB; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:11:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr To: Eric Jacobs , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:11:01 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <1079.10.0.81.10.1055692530.squirrel@www.mundomateo.com> <20030616171110.GC56734@webserver.get-linux.org> <20030616143936.71007de2.eaja@erols.com> In-Reply-To: <20030616143936.71007de2.eaja@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306162311.01163.wes@softweyr.com> Subject: Re: kqueue alternative? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:11:04 -0000 On Monday 16 June 2003 11:39 am, Eric Jacobs wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:11:10 -0700 > > Joshua Oreman wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 11:44:15AM +0100 or thereabouts, Tony Finch seemed to write: > > > Select doesn't work with files. > > > > Really? `man 2 select' says nothing about that. It just talks about > > 'file descriptors'. Now if it said 'socket descriptors' or 'non-file > > file descriptors' I would understand, but I don't think that that > > statement is implied by the man page. Is there something I'm missing? > > A file descriptor that references an ordinary vnode (file or directory) > will always be "ready for I/O", because unlike a socket or pipe, it > never needs to block in order to tell you if it's at EOF. > > So, while it works, and is logical, it isn't terribly useful. It's useful from the standpoint that the same select code that works with a device or socket handle, both of which can block, will work with a file handle that can't block or a pipe handle that can block. Looked at in this light, it would be really stupid if select didn't behave as it does when fed a file handle. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 16 23:14:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D76337B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.pair.com (relay.pair.com [209.68.1.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CA6D43F93 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:14:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 6290 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 06:14:45 -0000 Received: from niwun.pair.com (HELO localhost) (209.68.2.70) by relay.pair.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 06:14:45 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 209.68.2.70 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:13:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Daniel O'Connor In-Reply-To: <200306171038.23826.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> Message-ID: <20030617011055.O8740@odysseus.silby.com> References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <200306171038.23826.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:14:48 -0000 On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > If possible, I'd like you to try some other brands of 100/FDX hubs and see > > if autonegotiation works properly; this would help tell us if the problem > > is general, or specific to that card. > > I don't have any other brands of 100/FDX switches :( > I will try and dig one up, but I think the best I can do is a different > generation switch from the same manufacturer. Well, then we're somewhat stuck. Couldn't you sneak in a little 5 port hub from home and splice it into the network? :) > ukphy0: on miibus1 > ukphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto Nothing out of the ordinary there, but perhaps we're messing up by _not_ recognizing a specific PHY and doing something special. Hmmmm... I have an idea, but since forced duplex works for you, I'm not inclined to spend time on it now. Mike "Silby" Silbersack From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 00:59:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D31C37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1921743F93 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:59:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5H7xKDo068110; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:29:22 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Mike Silbersack Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:29:20 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <200306171038.23826.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <20030617011055.O8740@odysseus.silby.com> In-Reply-To: <20030617011055.O8740@odysseus.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306171729.20775.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -1.2 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:59:31 -0000 On Tuesday 17 June 2003 15:43, Mike Silbersack wrote: > > I don't have any other brands of 100/FDX switches :( > > I will try and dig one up, but I think the best I can do is a different > > generation switch from the same manufacturer. > > Well, then we're somewhat stuck. > > Couldn't you sneak in a little 5 port hub from home and splice it into the > network? :) I have a little 8 port switch at home, but it's made by Alloy :) I will ask my geeky friends, I'm sure they have a wide selection :) > > ukphy0: on miibus1 > > ukphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto > > Nothing out of the ordinary there, but perhaps we're messing up by _not_ > recognizing a specific PHY and doing something special. Hmmmm... > > I have an idea, but since forced duplex works for you, I'm not inclined to > spend time on it now. OK, I will get back to you with the results with a different switch in a few days... -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 04:52:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436E737B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F1AD43F75 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:52:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tracking@freebsd.mheller.org) Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19SF0O-00031v-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:52:04 +0200 Received: from [217.227.128.85] (helo=freebsd.mheller.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19SF0N-0000S6-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:52:04 +0200 Message-ID: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:52:04 +0200 From: Martin Heller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de-DE; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: de-de, de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:08 -0000 Hi, I've got some questions relating to the settlement Agreement as Chris Sontag/SCO raised some FUD. Here's the excerpt relating to BSD from the interview: ... But what about BSD?" I asked. Sontag responded that there "could be issues with the [BSD] settlement agreement," adding that Berkeley may not have lived up to all of its commitments under the settlement. "So you want royalties from FreeBSD as well?" I asked. Sontag responded that "there may or may not be issues. We believe that UNIX System V provided the basic building blocks for all subsequent computer operating systems, and that they all tend to be derived from UNIX System V (and therefore are claimed as SCO's intellectual property)." ... Will the FreeBSD project issue an offical statement relating to these allegations? What will happen to FreeBSD if SCO aims at the BSD projects. Could SCO revoke the Settlement Agreement and pursue a court ruling? Yours, M. Heller From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 05:08:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB2B37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD01F43FE5 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:08:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5HC8gkA067677; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:08:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> To: tracking@freebsd.mheller.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:08:47 -0000 In message: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> Martin Heller writes: : Will the FreeBSD project issue an offical statement relating to these : allegations? : What will happen to FreeBSD if SCO aims at the BSD projects. Could SCO : revoke the Settlement Agreement and pursue a court ruling? This is not an official statement from the project. There is not now, nor has there *EVER* been *ANY* System V code in BSD. *EVER*. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. The IP connected with the BSD suit of the early 1990s derived from pre System V and System III versions of Unix. In fact, Version 7 unix has more Berkeley copyrights in it than AT&T copyright notices. The settlement terms specifically state that SCO cannot sue anybody who makes a release based on 4.4-LITE. The settlement agreement is BINDING on both parties. SCO cannot revoke it, and will have a hell of a legal fight if they try. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 05:14:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB2437B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mooseriver.com (adsl-68-73-114-183.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net [68.73.114.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D49AC43FB1 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: by mooseriver.com (Postfix, from userid 200) id 36F5017F; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:14:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:14:24 -0500 From: Josef Grosch To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:14:27 -0000 On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 06:08:06AM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> > Martin Heller writes: > : Will the FreeBSD project issue an offical statement relating to these > : allegations? > : What will happen to FreeBSD if SCO aims at the BSD projects. Could SCO > : revoke the Settlement Agreement and pursue a court ruling? > > This is not an official statement from the project. > > There is not now, nor has there *EVER* been *ANY* System V code in > BSD. *EVER*. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. The IP connected with the BSD > suit of the early 1990s derived from pre System V and System III > versions of Unix. In fact, Version 7 unix has more Berkeley > copyrights in it than AT&T copyright notices. > > The settlement terms specifically state that SCO cannot sue anybody > who makes a release based on 4.4-LITE. The settlement agreement is > BINDING on both parties. SCO cannot revoke it, and will have a hell > of a legal fight if they try. > > Warner Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 05:18:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3B737B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F9E43F3F for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:18:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5HCIDkA067764; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:18:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20030617.061737.118627702.imp@bsdimp.com> To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:18:18 -0000 In message: <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> Josef Grosch writes: : Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? I don't think the actual text of the agreement was ever made public. Here's one of the many press releases that a google search turned up: http://www.daemon.org/bsd-releases/misc/USL-lawsuit Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 08:47:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CBA737B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgr1.xmission.com (mgr1.xmission.com [198.60.22.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E3243F75 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@eyesbeyond.com) Received: from mail by mgr1.xmission.com with spam-scanned (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19SIg1-0000dF-01 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:47:21 -0600 Received: from [207.135.128.145] (helo=misty.eyesbeyond.com) by mgr1.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19SIfz-0000cH-01; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:47:16 -0600 Received: from misty.eyesbeyond.com (localhost.eyesbeyond.com [127.0.0.1]) by misty.eyesbeyond.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HFrKBM086949; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:53:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glewis@eyesbeyond.com) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by misty.eyesbeyond.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5HFrHrO086948; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:53:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: misty.eyesbeyond.com: glewis set sender to glewis@eyesbeyond.com using -f Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:53:17 -0600 From: Greg Lewis To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030617155317.GA86754@misty.eyesbeyond.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-8.4 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_10,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF,USER_AGENT_MUTT,X_AUTH_WARNING autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: Munehiro Matsuda Subject: Broken in 5.1R and -current X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:47:23 -0000 --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi all, While moving from its own internal endian defines to using the JDK 1.3.1 code has become broken on both 5.1R and -current. The problem is that C++ code that includes (whether wrapped in extern "C" { } or not) fails during compilation with errors such as: In file included from ../../../src/share/native/sun/awt/font/FontWrapper.cpp:21: /usr/include/sys/endian.h: In function `uint16_t be16dec(const void*)': /usr/include/sys/endian.h:97: invalid conversion from `const void*' to `const unsigned char*' /usr/include/sys/endian.h: In function `uint32_t be32dec(const void*)': /usr/include/sys/endian.h:105: invalid conversion from `const void*' to `const unsigned char*' /usr/include/sys/endian.h: In function `uint64_t be64dec(const void*)': /usr/include/sys/endian.h:113: invalid conversion from `const void*' to `const unsigned char*' [...] gmake[3]: *** [../../../build/bsd-i386/tmp/sun/sun.awt.font/fontmanager/obj/FontWrapper.o] Error 1 The developer who noticed this problem (Munehiro Matsuda - cc'ed) submitted the attached patch which simply casts the function arguments to the appropriate type. Can someone please commit this, approve me to commit it (my commit bit is docs and ports :) or suggest an alternative? Thanks. A bump of __FreeBSD_version would be great too, since then we could detect this and work around it, however I'm not sure this meets the criteria for such a bump. -- Greg Lewis Email : glewis@eyesbeyond.com Eyes Beyond Web : http://www.eyesbeyond.com Information Technology FreeBSD : glewis@FreeBSD.org --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="patch-sys-endian.h" --- src/sys/sys/endian.h.ctm Fri Apr 4 00:48:59 2003 +++ src/sys/sys/endian.h Sun Jun 15 02:20:24 2003 @@ -94,7 +94,7 @@ static __inline uint16_t be16dec(const void *pp) { - unsigned char const *p = pp; + unsigned char const *p = (unsigned char const *)pp; return ((p[0] << 8) | p[1]); } @@ -102,7 +102,7 @@ static __inline uint32_t be32dec(const void *pp) { - unsigned char const *p = pp; + unsigned char const *p = (unsigned char const *)pp; return ((p[0] << 24) | (p[1] << 16) | (p[2] << 8) | p[3]); } @@ -110,7 +110,7 @@ static __inline uint64_t be64dec(const void *pp) { - unsigned char const *p = pp; + unsigned char const *p = (unsigned char const *)pp; return (((uint64_t)be32dec(p) << 32) | be32dec(p + 4)); } @@ -118,7 +118,7 @@ static __inline uint16_t le16dec(const void *pp) { - unsigned char const *p = pp; + unsigned char const *p = (unsigned char const *)pp; return ((p[1] << 8) | p[0]); } @@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ static __inline uint32_t le32dec(const void *pp) { - unsigned char const *p = pp; + unsigned char const *p = (unsigned char const *)pp; return ((p[3] << 24) | (p[2] << 16) | (p[1] << 8) | p[0]); } @@ -134,7 +134,7 @@ static __inline uint64_t le64dec(const void *pp) { - unsigned char const *p = pp; + unsigned char const *p = (unsigned char const *)pp; return (((uint64_t)le32dec(p + 4) << 32) | le32dec(p)); } @@ -142,7 +142,7 @@ static __inline void be16enc(void *pp, uint16_t u) { - unsigned char *p = pp; + unsigned char *p = (unsigned char *)pp; p[0] = (u >> 8) & 0xff; p[1] = u & 0xff; @@ -151,7 +151,7 @@ static __inline void be32enc(void *pp, uint32_t u) { - unsigned char *p = pp; + unsigned char *p = (unsigned char *)pp; p[0] = (u >> 24) & 0xff; p[1] = (u >> 16) & 0xff; @@ -162,7 +162,7 @@ static __inline void be64enc(void *pp, uint64_t u) { - unsigned char *p = pp; + unsigned char *p = (unsigned char *)pp; be32enc(p, u >> 32); be32enc(p + 4, u & 0xffffffff); @@ -171,7 +171,7 @@ static __inline void le16enc(void *pp, uint16_t u) { - unsigned char *p = pp; + unsigned char *p = (unsigned char *)pp; p[0] = u & 0xff; p[1] = (u >> 8) & 0xff; @@ -180,7 +180,7 @@ static __inline void le32enc(void *pp, uint32_t u) { - unsigned char *p = pp; + unsigned char *p = (unsigned char *)pp; p[0] = u & 0xff; p[1] = (u >> 8) & 0xff; @@ -191,7 +191,7 @@ static __inline void le64enc(void *pp, uint64_t u) { - unsigned char *p = pp; + unsigned char *p = (unsigned char *)pp; le32enc(p, u & 0xffffffff); le32enc(p + 4, u >> 32); --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 09:29:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CB3637B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp (nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp [61.202.250.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF4143F3F for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nork@FreeBSD.org) Received: from nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp (nadesico.ninth-nine.com [192.168.36.3]) by nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp (8.12.9/8.12.9/NinthNine) with SMTP id h5HGTK1I036487; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:29:22 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from nork@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:29:20 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200306171629.h5HGTK1I036487@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> From: Norikatsu Shigemura To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20030616004350.GA34076@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <200306142005.h5EK5s1I017984@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> <20030615001154.GA1373@rot13.obsecurity.org> <200306151423.h5FENf1I056184@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> <20030616004350.GA34076@rot13.obsecurity.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] CPUTYPE reflects to FFLAGS in bsd.cpu.mk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:29:24 -0000 On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:43:50 -0700 Kris Kennaway wrote: > > Humm.. Like following diff? > Not really what I had in mind. > > CXXFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS:C/-std=[a-z:0-9]+//} > FFLAGS should be set similar to this. Ah. OK. Like this? Index: sys.mk =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/share/mk/sys.mk,v retrieving revision 1.67 diff -u -r1.67 sys.mk --- sys.mk 1 Jun 2003 22:13:45 -0000 1.67 +++ sys.mk 17 Jun 2003 16:27:28 -0000 @@ -63,7 +63,7 @@ FFLAGS ?= -O 1 .else FC ?= f77 -FFLAGS ?= -O +FFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS} .endif EFLAGS ?= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 10:01:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844BF37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cfcl.com (cpe-24-221-172-174.ca.sprintbbd.net [24.221.172.174]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E954043F85 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rdm@cfcl.com) Received: from [192.168.254.205] ([192.168.254.205]) by cfcl.com (8.12.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h5HH1Gj4065290 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rdm@cfcl.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Eudora for Macintosh! Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:01:31 -0700 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Rich Morin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: prospects for DMA support for SiS962(L) Southbridge? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:01:36 -0000 I recently upgraded my motherboard and CPU, as: 478 pin Celeron; 2.1 GHz 512 MB DDR DIMM (2 ea.) SiS962(L) Southbridge I then found that I couldn't boot the (FreeBSD 4.7) system, getting: ad0: READ command timeout tag=0 serv=0 resetting ata0: resetting devices After a bunch of Googling and some discussions on freebsd-questions, I decided to change line 90 of /usr/src/sys/dev/ataata-disk.c to: static int ata_dma = 0; This works, but I suspect that it is slowing down my disk I/O quite a bit. So, I would like to know the prospects for this controller being supported in FreeBSD any time soon. -r P.S. I have been told that I should be able to boot from a PCI-based EIDE card, but I am not familiar with the (AMI)BIOS. If you can supply me with specific instructions, I would be MOST grateful. -- email: rdm@cfcl.com; phone: +1 650-873-7841 http://www.cfcl.com/rdm - my home page, resume, etc. http://www.cfcl.com/Meta - The FreeBSD Browser, Meta Project, etc. http://www.ptf.com/dossier - Prime Time Freeware's DOSSIER series http://www.ptf.com/tdc - Prime Time Freeware's Darwin Collection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 10:04:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F3D37B407 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spider.deepcore.dk (cpe.atm2-0-56339.0x50c6aa0a.abnxx2.customer.tele.dk [80.198.170.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0A043F75 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@spider.deepcore.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by spider.deepcore.dk (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) id h5HH3U2l012237; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:03:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soeren Schmidt Message-Id: <200306171703.h5HH3U2l012237@spider.deepcore.dk> In-Reply-To: To: Rich Morin Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:03:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL98b (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: prospects for DMA support for SiS962(L) Southbridge? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:04:03 -0000 It seems Rich Morin wrote: > I recently upgraded my motherboard and CPU, as: > > 478 pin Celeron; 2.1 GHz > 512 MB DDR DIMM (2 ea.) > SiS962(L) Southbridge > > I then found that I couldn't boot the (FreeBSD 4.7) system, getting: > > ad0: READ command timeout tag=0 serv=0 resetting > ata0: resetting devices > > After a bunch of Googling and some discussions on freebsd-questions, > I decided to change line 90 of /usr/src/sys/dev/ataata-disk.c to: > > static int ata_dma = 0; > > This works, but I suspect that it is slowing down my disk I/O quite a > bit. So, I would like to know the prospects for this controller being > supported in FreeBSD any time soon. It is supported in 5.1. -Søren From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 10:04:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F365537B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from transport.cksoft.de (transport.cksoft.de [62.111.66.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C26043FBD for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@zabbadoz.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by transport.cksoft.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741381FFFB9; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:04:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: by transport.cksoft.de (Postfix, from userid 66) id 4C3E71FFFB8; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:04:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix, from userid 1060) id CB9701558F; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:04:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15FD153DB; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:04:35 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:04:35 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-X-Sender: bz@e0-0.zab2.int.zabbadoz.net To: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20030617.061737.118627702.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030617.061737.118627702.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020300 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:04:51 -0000 On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> > Josef Grosch writes: > : Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? > > I don't think the actual text of the agreement was ever made public. > Here's one of the many press releases that a google search turned up: > > http://www.daemon.org/bsd-releases/misc/USL-lawsuit and here is the other: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bsdi/bsdisuit.htm -- Greetings Bjoern A. Zeeb bzeeb at Zabbadoz dot NeT 56 69 73 69 74 http://www.zabbadoz.net/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 11:11:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3908F37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC6E43FA3 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from queasyweasel.com (jkh@narcissus.queasyweasel.com [64.173.15.99])h5HI9p2J031199; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:11:49 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com From: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> Message-Id: <2A010EC5-A0EF-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:11:55 -0000 You can't. A provision of the settlement agreement was that none of the signatories could publish the settlement agreement. If I remember correctly, Chris Demetriou was the signatory for NetBSD, Rob Kolstad was the signatory for BSD/OS and I was the signatory for FreeBSD. The agreement was pretty clear on the fact that by signing the agreement and putting the mutual lawsuits behind us, Novell agreed that anyone based on 4.4Lite2 going forward would be free and clear. - Jordan On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 05:14 AM, Josef Grosch wrote: > Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? > -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 11:40:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67FCC37B408 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63D943F3F for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5HIeBVI059542; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h5HIeB99059541; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200306171840.h5HIeB99059541@apollo.backplane.com> To: Jordan K Hubbard References: <2A010EC5-A0EF-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:40:12 -0000 :You can't. A provision of the settlement agreement was that none of :the signatories could publish the settlement agreement. If I remember :correctly, Chris Demetriou was the signatory for NetBSD, Rob Kolstad :was the signatory for BSD/OS and I was the signatory for FreeBSD. The :agreement was pretty clear on the fact that by signing the agreement :and putting the mutual lawsuits behind us, Novell agreed that anyone :based on 4.4Lite2 going forward would be free and clear. : :- Jordan : :On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 05:14 AM, Josef Grosch wrote: : :> Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? :> :-- :Jordan K. Hubbard :Engineering Manager, BSD technology group :Apple Computer You know, this latest SCO shenanigan has really got me angry. Angry enough to take action... so I went ahead and shorted some of their stock. Now I feel much better! When they loose in the end (1-2 year time frame) and their stock goes poof I'll treat the Bay Area BSD crowd to a big dinner with the proceeds :-) -Matt Matthew Dillon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 11:52:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD6237B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.attbi.com (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D2043FA3 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@acm.org) Received: from bmah.dyndns.org ([12.240.204.110]) by attbi.com (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20030617185207016001ldp9e>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:52:07 +0000 Received: from intruder.bmah.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bmah.dyndns.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5HIq6Nm042196; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.bmah.org) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by intruder.bmah.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5HIq5Rt042195; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:05 -0700 From: "Bruce A. Mah" To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20030617185205.GA42050@intruder.bmah.org> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:52:09 -0000 --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline [If, ${DIETY} forbid, there are any follow-ups to this message, they belong on chat@] If memory serves me right, M. Warner Losh wrote: > There is not now, nor has there *EVER* been *ANY* System V code in > BSD. *EVER*. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. There are no SysV infidels in FreeBSD. Never! :-) Bruce. --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+72NV2MoxcVugUsMRAoIPAJ4zPcITp9gotUCVUPzLFc3mwP0rawCfShbo hNkxJrH8RK9Tcz3QusU224Y= =R1hM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 12:07:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CCD737B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.x123.info (165.Red-80-37-224.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.37.224.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A4B443FAF for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:07:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from esn@x123.info) Received: (qmail 77397 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2003 19:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wire.x123.info) (esn@192.168.1.2) by 0 with SMTP; 17 Jun 2003 19:06:58 -0000 From: "Sebastian Yepes [ESN]" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:07:31 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306172107.31158.esn@x123.info> Subject: Re: BCM4401 ethernet driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:07:18 -0000 Lost of ppl are waiting for this driver to be ported -- /* FingerPrint: 5BF1 58B1 DE75 CBE3 6044 7098 1246 1EF6 9E78 041C @@@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@@ @@! @@@ !@@ @@! @@@ @!@!@!@ !@@!! @!@ !@! !!: !!! !:! !!: !!! :: : :: ::.: : :: : : The Power To Kill LinuX */ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 13:39:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6630337B404 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1960D43F3F for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5HKdlVI060100; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:39:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h5HKdkII060099; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:39:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200306172039.h5HKdkII060099@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:39:50 -0000 :> Here's one of the many press releases that a google search turned up: :> :> http://www.daemon.org/bsd-releases/misc/USL-lawsuit : :and here is the other: : :http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bsdi/bsdisuit.htm : :-- :Greetings : :Bjoern A. Zeeb bzeeb at Zabbadoz dot NeT The best statement that I've read so far vis-a-vie the SCO litigation is the OSI group's position paper on the matter. It doesn't focus on the USL lawsuit but it gives a really good overview of the whole situation, and it brings up the fact that AT&T was caught red-handed taking code from BSD, removing the copyrights, and putting their own on, which severely taints the efficacy of any IP claims made based on the SysV code. SCO is basically trying to inflate its own importance and the importance of its SysV copyrights and the contributions SysV made to the history of unix, and all public statements SCO makes are done with that in mind. It's unfortunate that the press feels (generally, not BYTE specifically) that it must turn the whole thing into high entertainment. http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html -Matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 15:21:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F187037B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320AF43F85 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:21:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5HMLekA072234; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:21:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20030617.162109.26276195.imp@bsdimp.com> To: glewis@misty.eyesbeyond.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20030617155317.GA86754@misty.eyesbeyond.com> References: <20030617155317.GA86754@misty.eyesbeyond.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: haro@h4.dion.ne.jp Subject: Re: Broken in 5.1R and -current X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:21:49 -0000 These patches look good to me. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 15:23:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB7A37B401; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E97D743F3F; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:23:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5HMNAkA072245; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:23:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20030617.162248.133289574.imp@bsdimp.com> To: nork@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <200306171629.h5HGTK1I036487@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> References: <200306151423.h5FENf1I056184@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> <20030616004350.GA34076@rot13.obsecurity.org> <200306171629.h5HGTK1I036487@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: kris@obsecurity.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] CPUTYPE reflects to FFLAGS in bsd.cpu.mk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:23:13 -0000 In message: <200306171629.h5HGTK1I036487@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> Norikatsu Shigemura writes: : On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:43:50 -0700 : Kris Kennaway wrote: : > > Humm.. Like following diff? : > Not really what I had in mind. : > > CXXFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS:C/-std=[a-z:0-9]+//} : > FFLAGS should be set similar to this. : : Ah. OK. Like this? : : Index: sys.mk : =================================================================== : RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/share/mk/sys.mk,v : retrieving revision 1.67 : diff -u -r1.67 sys.mk : --- sys.mk 1 Jun 2003 22:13:45 -0000 1.67 : +++ sys.mk 17 Jun 2003 16:27:28 -0000 : @@ -63,7 +63,7 @@ : FFLAGS ?= -O 1 : .else : FC ?= f77 : -FFLAGS ?= -O : +FFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS} +FFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS:C/-std=[a-z:0-9]+//}} : .endif : EFLAGS ?= might be better. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 15:26:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A679337B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.attbi.com (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F45B43F93 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:26:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([12.233.125.100]) by attbi.com (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003061722264401100808bpe>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:26:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA31447; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200306172226.PAA31447@InterJet.elischer.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:26:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Matthew Dillon cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:26:47 -0000 BSDsettlement agreement In-Reply-To: <200306172039.h5HKdkII060099@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII also note that this is actually "caldera" and not the SCO of Xenix fame. On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :> Here's one of the many press releases that a google search turned up: > :> > :> http://www.daemon.org/bsd-releases/misc/USL-lawsuit > : > :and here is the other: > : > :http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bsdi/bsdisuit.htm > : > :-- > :Greetings > : > :Bjoern A. Zeeb bzeeb at Zabbadoz dot NeT > > The best statement that I've read so far vis-a-vie the SCO litigation is > the OSI group's position paper on the matter. It doesn't focus on the > USL lawsuit but it gives a really good overview of the whole situation, > and it brings up the fact that AT&T was caught red-handed taking code > from BSD, removing the copyrights, and putting their own on, which > severely taints the efficacy of any IP claims made based on the SysV > code. > > SCO is basically trying to inflate its own importance and the importance > of its SysV copyrights and the contributions SysV made to the history > of unix, and all public statements SCO makes are done with that in mind. > It's unfortunate that the press feels (generally, not BYTE specifically) > that it must turn the whole thing into high entertainment. > > http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html > > -Matt > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 17:03:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F67737B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mooseriver.com (adsl-68-73-114-183.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net [68.73.114.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC41043FBD for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: by mooseriver.com (Postfix, from userid 200) id 0DF14191; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:03:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:03:49 -0500 From: Josef Grosch To: Jordan K Hubbard Message-ID: <20030618000349.GA74731@mooseriver.com> References: <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> <2A010EC5-A0EF-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2A010EC5-A0EF-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:03:51 -0000 On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 11:11:49AM -0700, Jordan K Hubbard wrote: > You can't. A provision of the settlement agreement was that none of > the signatories could publish the settlement agreement. If I remember > correctly, Chris Demetriou was the signatory for NetBSD, Rob Kolstad > was the signatory for BSD/OS and I was the signatory for FreeBSD. The > agreement was pretty clear on the fact that by signing the agreement > and putting the mutual lawsuits behind us, Novell agreed that anyone > based on 4.4Lite2 going forward would be free and clear. > > - Jordan > > On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 05:14 AM, Josef Grosch wrote: > > >Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? > > > -- > Jordan K. Hubbard > Engineering Manager, BSD technology group > Apple Computer > > Thank you Jordan. That is what I remembered. I was also under the impression that because we started over again with 4.4Lite2 after the settlement that we could not be sued again. We have also had a CVS system in place since the before the settlement and what we did get from IBM via Whistle was developed by Whistle for IBM and given to us. Basically when SCO says there "may be a problem with FreeBSD" they are just blowing smoke. Right. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 18:01:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FECD37B404 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-relay2.barrysworld.com (smtp-relay2.barrysworld.com [213.221.172.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C38443FAF for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:01:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from killing@barrysworld.com) Received: from [213.221.181.50] (helo=barrysworld.com) by smtp-relay2.barrysworld.com with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19SRK3-000100-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:01:11 +0100 Received: from vader [212.135.219.179] by barrysworld.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA9D228401AC; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:04:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c33535$1b3283a0$b3db87d4@vader> From: "Steven Hartland" To: References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org><20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <200306172039.h5HKdkII060099@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:01:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Teamspeak server under FreeBSD 5.1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Steven Hartland List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:01:24 -0000 Just upgraded one of our machines to 5.1-RELEASE from 5.0-RELEASE and now the teamspeak server fails to run. There was something similar under 4.7-RELEASE but at least I don't even get anything in the log :( It leaves some process hanging which are bound to port 8767 where as when run under 5.0 it binds to 8767, 14534 and 51234. Anyone got any ideas. Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 19:31:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F9237B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7079E43F3F for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:31:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 4E0DD51A9D; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:01:38 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:01:38 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WK3l2KTTmXPVedZ6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:31:59 -0000 --WK3l2KTTmXPVedZ6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday, 17 June 2003 at 6:08:06 -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> > Martin Heller writes: >> Will the FreeBSD project issue an offical statement relating to these >> allegations? >> What will happen to FreeBSD if SCO aims at the BSD projects. Could SCO >> revoke the Settlement Agreement and pursue a court ruling? > > This is not an official statement from the project. > > There is not now, nor has there *EVER* been *ANY* System V code in > BSD. *EVER*. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. Agreed. The fact that Sontag even mentions this detracts further from an already very stupid interview. I've put an analysis at http://wwww.lemis.com/grog/sco-sontag-16jun2003.html. > The IP connected with the BSD suit of the early 1990s derived from > pre System V and System III versions of Unix. In fact, Version 7 > unix has more Berkeley copyrights in it than AT&T copyright notices. The Seventh Edition? Nope, as far as I can tell there's no BSD code there. In /usr/src: $ find .|xargs grep -i "bell telephone"|wc -l 27 $ find .|xargs grep -i berkeley Binary file ./cmd/learn/lib/C.a matches ./cmd/refer/test:new providence murray hill berkeley heights $ find .|xargs grep -i california|wc -l 0 Most of the "Bell Telephone" lines were indeed copyrights. Or did you mean something else? > The settlement terms specifically state that SCO cannot sue anybody > who makes a release based on 4.4-LITE. The settlement agreement is > BINDING on both parties. SCO cannot revoke it, and will have a hell > of a legal fight if they try. That depends on how much money we can put into the legal fight. But they don't need to do that: they can simply make the same claim that they did about Linux, that somebody has since imported UNIX code into the tree. The settlement has nothing to do with that. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --WK3l2KTTmXPVedZ6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+788KIubykFB6QiMRAuZPAJ4no3YpOCPPnA9MeNtPlIkHpjNQ2QCcDaNV LVbZL2OMMf3jdY8m9mVbKyA= =s6m0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WK3l2KTTmXPVedZ6-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 19:38:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9075C37B404 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabre.velocet.net (sabre.velocet.net [216.138.209.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B337C43FBD for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dgilbert@velocet.ca) Received: from trooper.velocet.ca (trooper.velocet.net [216.138.242.2]) by sabre.velocet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8401385F8; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by trooper.velocet.ca (Postfix, from userid 66) id 0596E74C27; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by canoe.velocet.net (Postfix, from userid 101) id A2F4A4675; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:37:59 -0400 (EDT) From: David Gilbert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16111.53383.625867.542328@canoe.velocet.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:37:59 -0400 To: "Duncan Barclay" In-Reply-To: <003301c33101$48c3ddb0$a7ac77c1@DJK1Comp> References: <003301c33101$48c3ddb0$a7ac77c1@DJK1Comp> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.4 (patch 12) "Portable Code" XEmacs Lucid cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: quel Subject: [hackers] Re: BCM4401 ethernet driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:38:16 -0000 >>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Barclay writes: Duncan> I am in the process of rewriting this driver for FreeBSD. It Duncan> can transmit, but RX is not yet going properly. As this is Duncan> evening work, it's likely to take at elast another week. >> This is the onboard ethernet on my dell inspiron 8500 laptop and I I'm pretty sure this is the chipset on my Dell D800 laptop. I would be interested in testing the drivers, too. I'm running 5.1-RELEASE. Dave. -- ============================================================================ |David Gilbert, Velocet Communications. | Two things can only be | |Mail: dgilbert@velocet.net | equal if and only if they | |http://daveg.ca | are precisely opposite. | =========================================================GLO================ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 19:41:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8F837B401; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786DC43F75; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:41:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5I2fRkA073595; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:41:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> To: grog@FreeBSD.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:41:31 -0000 In message: <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" writes: : Most of the "Bell Telephone" lines were indeed copyrights. Or did you : mean something else? I was confused. I was recalling a thread on TUHS about Unix 32V, which I confused with 7th Edition (which I mistakenly called version 7). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 19:53:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E53237B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-26.ig.com.br (smtp-26.ig.com.br [200.226.132.160]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BE09143FBD for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:53:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from none@superig.com.br) Received: (qmail 20266 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:53:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO superig.com.br) (200.179.208.42) by smtp-26.ig.com.br with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:53:16 -0000 Message-ID: <3EEFD3E6.3090702@superig.com.br> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:52:22 -0300 From: Tony Meman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <003301c33101$48c3ddb0$a7ac77c1@DJK1Comp> <16111.53383.625867.542328@canoe.velocet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [hackers] Re: BCM4401 ethernet driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:53:05 -0000 David Gilbert wrote: > Duncan> I am in the process of rewriting this driver for FreeBSD. It > Duncan> can transmit, but RX is not yet going properly. As this is > Duncan> evening work, it's likely to take at elast another week. > > >>>This is the onboard ethernet on my dell inspiron 8500 laptop and I > > I'm pretty sure this is the chipset on my Dell D800 laptop. I would > be interested in testing the drivers, too. I'm running 5.1-RELEASE. > > Dave. This ethernet is onboard on some Asus A7V8X mother boards (VIA KT400 chipset). I'm running the linux/windows drivers from Broadcom site without problems. If you need more ppl testing the driver I'd be glad to help. I'm running 4.8-STABLE but could upgrade to 5.1-RELEASE if required. Regards, -- Tony Meman From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 20:08:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC8C37B401; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mooseriver.com (adsl-68-73-114-183.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net [68.73.114.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4F243FAF; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: by mooseriver.com (Postfix, from userid 200) id 98423103; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:08:52 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:08:52 -0500 From: Josef Grosch To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Message-ID: <20030618030852.GC9857@mooseriver.com> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:08:54 -0000 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:01:38PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 17 June 2003 at 6:08:06 -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > > In message: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> > > Martin Heller writes: > >> Will the FreeBSD project issue an offical statement relating to these > >> allegations? > >> What will happen to FreeBSD if SCO aims at the BSD projects. Could SCO > >> revoke the Settlement Agreement and pursue a court ruling? > > > > This is not an official statement from the project. > > > > There is not now, nor has there *EVER* been *ANY* System V code in > > BSD. *EVER*. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. > > Agreed. The fact that Sontag even mentions this detracts further from > an already very stupid interview. I've put an analysis at > http://wwww.lemis.com/grog/sco-sontag-16jun2003.html. Your site seems not to be responding. Do you need a mirror? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 20:24:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF2037B401; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.ambrisko.com (adsl-64-174-51-42.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.174.51.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9620E43FA3; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@www.ambrisko.com) Received: from www.ambrisko.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.ambrisko.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5I3OTO7079623; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@www.ambrisko.com) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by www.ambrisko.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h5I3OTeq079622; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <200306180324.h5I3OTeq079622@www.ambrisko.com> In-Reply-To: <20030618030852.GC9857@mooseriver.com> To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94b (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:24:30 -0000 Josef Grosch writes: | On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:01:38PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: | > On Tuesday, 17 June 2003 at 6:08:06 -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: | > > In message: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> | > > Martin Heller writes: | > >> Will the FreeBSD project issue an offical statement relating to these | > >> allegations? | > >> What will happen to FreeBSD if SCO aims at the BSD projects. Could SCO | > >> revoke the Settlement Agreement and pursue a court ruling? | > > | > > This is not an official statement from the project. | > > | > > There is not now, nor has there *EVER* been *ANY* System V code in | > > BSD. *EVER*. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. | > | > Agreed. The fact that Sontag even mentions this detracts further from | > an already very stupid interview. I've put an analysis at | > http://wwww.lemis.com/grog/sco-sontag-16jun2003.html. | | Your site seems not to be responding. Do you need a mirror? Nope he needs one less "w" as in: http://www.lemis.com/grog/sco-sontag-16jun2003.html Doug eh? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 20:29:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438CC37B401; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11ED43F75; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@gsicomp.on.ca) Received: from gabby.gsicomp.on.ca ([65.95.177.176]) by tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.netESMTP <20030618032950.QMNW29308.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@gabby.gsicomp.on.ca>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:29:50 -0400 Received: from hermes (hermes.gsicomp.on.ca [192.168.0.18]) by gabby.gsicomp.on.ca (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h5I3OvmK011480; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:24:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from matt@gsicomp.on.ca) Message-ID: <001101c33549$c8bdea00$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> From: "Matthew Emmerton" To: , "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org><20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com><20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030618030852.GC9857@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:29:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:29:53 -0000 > On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:01:38PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > On Tuesday, 17 June 2003 at 6:08:06 -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > > > In message: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> > > > Martin Heller writes: > > >> Will the FreeBSD project issue an offical statement relating to these > > >> allegations? > > >> What will happen to FreeBSD if SCO aims at the BSD projects. Could SCO > > >> revoke the Settlement Agreement and pursue a court ruling? > > > > > > This is not an official statement from the project. > > > > > > There is not now, nor has there *EVER* been *ANY* System V code in > > > BSD. *EVER*. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. > > > > Agreed. The fact that Sontag even mentions this detracts further from > > an already very stupid interview. I've put an analysis at > > http://wwww.lemis.com/grog/sco-sontag-16jun2003.html. > > Your site seems not to be responding. Do you need a mirror? s/wwww/www/g and you should be able to access the site. -- Matt Emmerton From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 20:48:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBECF37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562DF43FB1 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 13E6951A9D; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:18:38 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:18:38 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="g3RkK9jYN81zD2N+" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:48:16 -0000 --g3RkK9jYN81zD2N+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday, 17 June 2003 at 20:41:00 -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> > "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" writes: >> Most of the "Bell Telephone" lines were indeed copyrights. Or did you >> mean something else? > > I was confused. I was recalling a thread on TUHS about Unix 32V, > which I confused with 7th Edition (which I mistakenly called version > 7). Yes, it reminded me of that thread, but wkt was actually referring to System III, not 32V. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --g3RkK9jYN81zD2N+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+7+EWIubykFB6QiMRAjPeAKCWAabpPFmWukh/BzggQ6uUZOVxQwCgsebc IXD05fbjDfrNeUsbrcunwLE= =ASR8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --g3RkK9jYN81zD2N+-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 20:51:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EF037B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69BB543F85 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 1B53951A9E; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:21:35 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:21:35 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Doug Ambrisko Message-ID: <20030618035135.GK93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20030618030852.GC9857@mooseriver.com> <200306180324.h5I3OTeq079622@www.ambrisko.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QxIEt88oQPsT6QmF" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306180324.h5I3OTeq079622@www.ambrisko.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Unreachable web site (was: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating to BSDsettlement agreement) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:51:13 -0000 --QxIEt88oQPsT6QmF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday, 17 June 2003 at 20:24:29 -0700, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > Josef Grosch writes: >> On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:01:38PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >>> On Tuesday, 17 June 2003 at 6:08:06 -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: >>>> In message: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> >>>> Martin Heller writes: >>>>> Will the FreeBSD project issue an offical statement relating to these >>>>> allegations? >>>>> What will happen to FreeBSD if SCO aims at the BSD projects. Could SCO >>>>> revoke the Settlement Agreement and pursue a court ruling? >>>> >>>> This is not an official statement from the project. >>>> >>>> There is not now, nor has there *EVER* been *ANY* System V code in >>>> BSD. *EVER*. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. >>> >>> Agreed. The fact that Sontag even mentions this detracts further from >>> an already very stupid interview. I've put an analysis at >>> http://wwww.lemis.com/grog/sco-sontag-16jun2003.html. >> >> Your site seems not to be responding. Do you need a mirror? > > Nope he needs one less "w" as in: > http://www.lemis.com/grog/sco-sontag-16jun2003.html Yup. wwww does exist, however. It's really a CNAME for echunga.lemis.com, my local web server. It's firewalled off, since I'm on a dialup line. I introduced the CNAME for exactly that reason: if I cut and paste a local URL and forget to change it, people will assume it's a typo and DTRT. If I had more DNS foo I'd be able to assign different addresses to different interfaces, I suppose. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --QxIEt88oQPsT6QmF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+7+HHIubykFB6QiMRAnvjAJ968hQcHX0vhHGINW7GEWSVjqEiIQCfU4x2 I3ZeWX478RUoTx4kGivONQc= =tUus -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QxIEt88oQPsT6QmF-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 21:40:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DBD137B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 211EA43F93 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:40:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5I4eWDo090629; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:10:33 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: "Sebastian Yepes [ESN]" , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:10:31 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200306172107.31158.esn@x123.info> In-Reply-To: <200306172107.31158.esn@x123.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306181410.31638.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: Re: BCM4401 ethernet driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:40:38 -0000 On Wednesday 18 June 2003 04:37, Sebastian Yepes [ESN] wrote: > Lost of ppl are waiting for this driver to be ported Your patches went missing.. maybe your mailer ate them. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 22:11:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 046C637B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp (nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp [61.202.250.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078CF43FA3 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nork@FreeBSD.org) Received: from nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp ([IPv6:2002:d312:f91e::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp (8.12.9/8.12.9/NinthNine) with ESMTP id h5I5Ai1J055092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:10:48 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from nork@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:10:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200306180510.h5I5Ai1J055092@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> From: Norikatsu Shigemura To: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20030617.162248.133289574.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <200306151423.h5FENf1I056184@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> <20030616004350.GA34076@rot13.obsecurity.org> <200306171629.h5HGTK1I036487@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> <20030617.162248.133289574.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: kris@obsecurity.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] CPUTYPE reflects to FFLAGS in bsd.cpu.mk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:11:10 -0000 On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:22:48 -0600 (MDT) "M. Warner Losh" wrote: > : -FFLAGS ?= -O > : +FFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS} > +FFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS:C/-std=[a-z:0-9]+//}} > : .endif > : EFLAGS ?= > might be better. Aha! -std=c99 (etc..) is only C feature. I see. I'll send-pr this fix. (or anyone, commit this!) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 17 22:21:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD96537B401; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D1A943FAF; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:21:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5I5LkkA074414; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:21:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20030617.232122.14843602.imp@bsdimp.com> To: nork@FreeBSD.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <200306180510.h5I5Ai1J055092@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> References: <200306171629.h5HGTK1I036487@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> <20030617.162248.133289574.imp@bsdimp.com> <200306180510.h5I5Ai1J055092@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: kris@obsecurity.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] CPUTYPE reflects to FFLAGS in bsd.cpu.mk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:21:49 -0000 In message: <200306180510.h5I5Ai1J055092@nd250009.gab.xdsl.ne.jp> Norikatsu Shigemura writes: : On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:22:48 -0600 (MDT) : "M. Warner Losh" wrote: : > : -FFLAGS ?= -O : > : +FFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS} : > +FFLAGS ?= ${CFLAGS:C/-std=[a-z:0-9]+//}} : > : .endif : > : EFLAGS ?= : > might be better. : : Aha! -std=c99 (etc..) is only C feature. Yes. That's right. -std= might be used for other languages, but its meaning would be totally different for each of them. : I see. I'll send-pr this fix. (or anyone, commit this!) I'll add it to my tree, and hopefully commit it soon. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 00:39:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B1637B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmlb.org (pc2-cmbg4-6-cust36.cmbg.cable.ntl.com [81.96.76.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C91043FAF for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@dmlb.org) Received: from slave.my.domain ([192.168.200.39]) by dmlb.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19SXXn-0004RF-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:39:47 +0100 Received: from dmlb by slave.my.domain with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19SXXn-000CJ3-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:39:47 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <16111.53383.625867.542328@canoe.velocet.net> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:39:47 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: David Gilbert Sender: Duncan Barclay cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: [hackers] Re: BCM4401 ethernet driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:39:50 -0000 On 18-Jun-2003 David Gilbert wrote: >>>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Barclay writes: > > Duncan> I am in the process of rewriting this driver for FreeBSD. It > Duncan> can transmit, but RX is not yet going properly. As this is > Duncan> evening work, it's likely to take at elast another week. > >>> This is the onboard ethernet on my dell inspiron 8500 laptop and I > > I'm pretty sure this is the chipset on my Dell D800 laptop. I would > be interested in testing the drivers, too. I'm running 5.1-RELEASE. > > Dave. cool - are you a bit of hacker? If so, you should be able to cope with the request below, and the explaination. If not, or you don't understand the stuff below, then maybe the driver is not yet ready for you (no offence intended). The driver is not very ready (as I have some problems interrupt problems), but can transmit. Receive is not working - well not even written. If you can build http://people.freebsd.org/~dmlb/bcm.tar.gz as a module, kldload it and then ifconfig bcm0 192.168.0.1 ping -c 1 192.168.0.0 and send me the copious dmesg output I would be very grateful. The mahcine I am developing on has a problem with interrupts. There is a problem with RX DMA descriptors that I haven't figured out. Sebastian sent me a log this morning and he has the same interrupt problem as I do. Thanks Duncan -- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | dmlb@dmlb.org | dmlb@freebsd.org| From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 00:45:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C6437B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FBDD43F3F for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc0jj.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.2.115] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19SXd0-000528-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:45:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF01817.3186204C@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:43:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a447be1e48b8a434d395b35295341a89412601a10902912494350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:45:19 -0000 Josef Grosch wrote: > > The settlement terms specifically state that SCO cannot sue anybody > > who makes a release based on 4.4-LITE. The settlement agreement is > > BINDING on both parties. SCO cannot revoke it, and will have a hell > > of a legal fight if they try. > > Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? Since it's part of a sealed court record, with non-disclosure agreements required of both parties as the only publically acknowledged part of the agreement, you would have to file a Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request to view the settlement. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 01:45:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF8A37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF1E43FDD for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:45:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5I8jBb0067523; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:45:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5I8jAAm067522; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:45:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:45:10 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20030618084510.GB67404@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> <3EF01817.3186204C@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF01817.3186204C@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:45:15 -0000 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:43:19AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Josef Grosch wrote: > > > The settlement terms specifically state that SCO cannot sue anybody > > > who makes a release based on 4.4-LITE. The settlement agreement is > > > BINDING on both parties. SCO cannot revoke it, and will have a hell > > > of a legal fight if they try. > > > > Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? > > Since it's part of a sealed court record, with non-disclosure > agreements required of both parties as the only publically > acknowledged part of the agreement, you would have to file a > Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request to view the settlement. Pfff.. sealed court record. Something you expect of a child abuse court case, not for a argument about bloody source code. Wilko -- | / o / /_ _ wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 02:41:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C9D037B401; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2E043F85; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:41:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfl1t.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.61] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19SZRj-00035V-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:41:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:38:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a481ce3f1802cab5bdb3bff33d1fd468da666fa475841a1c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:41:41 -0000 Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > Yes, it reminded me of that thread, but wkt was actually referring to > System III, not 32V. I am also pretty certain that it was widely stated at the time that the UCB's license was the older Western Electric license, which is the same license which allowed Lyon's to publish his commentary, legally, including the kernel source code. While the university, proper, did obtain a more modern license, that license could not be retroactive to change the terms of the original license. The original licenses were very lenient in their terms, since, at the time, the 1956 consent decreee prohibited them from making money from software sales, as part of their being a regulated monopoly at the time. It was only later, after the breakup, that they were permitted to profit from sales of their software. And that's when license fees went up. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 02:53:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D27B37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949DF43FB1 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfl1t.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.212.61] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19SZdM-0004Pf-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:53:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF035C8.FF957A9B@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:50:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wilko Bulte References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> <3EF01817.3186204C@mindspring.com> <20030618084510.GB67404@freebie.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a411d6ea2d4bcbec207a54aaf80edc41fea8438e0f32a48e08350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:53:45 -0000 Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? > > > > Since it's part of a sealed court record, with non-disclosure > > agreements required of both parties as the only publically > > acknowledged part of the agreement, you would have to file a > > Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request to view the settlement. > > Pfff.. sealed court record. Something you expect of a child abuse > court case, not for a argument about bloody source code. Most settled cases result in a sealed record. It's one of the main incentives to settle: so that the publicity doesn't damage your business, in case you act like an idiot. 8-). -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 03:01:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA90137B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B3B43F93 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19SZkr-000Pwe-6F for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:01:25 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:01:25 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Sender: Paul Robinson Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:01:15 -0000 You've got me going. You've just touched on my favourite subject. Apologies= =20 for those of you who prefer short e-mails. On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 03:18:52PM -0400, Leo Bicknell wrote: > Some of this could be done in the current installer, if there wasn't > an effort to make it still fit on a floppy. Mind you, I'd like to see > the floppy based install stick around for a while, but I think FreeBSD > needs to embrace the CD reality. Actually the current effort is useless without at least two floppies. but I= =20 get your point. The installer is something that has been bugging me for a= =20 long, long, long time now. I hate sysinstall. I had some spare time and was= =20 going to start on something when Jordan piped up with libh. I'm not sure if= =20 libh was the right way to go anyway - it just prettied up sysinstall and=20 made it more confusing to a novice user. The issue however has continued=20 clawing at the back of my head. =20 For me at least, the issue has raised lots of other important issues: - The project will never agree what is required of the installer, as=20 everybody has their own agenda. Some see FBSD as a server OS that could do= =20 desktop, others want to push it forward as generic "one-fits-all" OS that's= =20 as good at desktop work as it is at server work. The installer needs to be= =20 able to mirror the user's wishes there and then. - Saying "CDs are the way of the future and we must embrace" is not only short-sighted on the long-term game plan, but negates the alternatives - for example, would it not be relatively easy to produce a single floppy boot disk that grabs the installer off the network? Off an FTP site? On the mirror? With the network config in a file that could be edited on the disk= =20 in notepad or vi? Why not? Why not *try* and make it work? - We need to abstract the package management and /usr/ports more for the=20 average user. You mother would not be able to able to build a secure web=20 server on FBSD without a great deal of hand holding. Until she is, the=20 project should realise that we're not in any way proponents of a "user=20 friendly" OS. It's a sysadmin-friendly OS. Sysadmins would like user=20 friendlieness just like everybody else, they just don't want the ability to= =20 stop things happening they don't want. Aim for making a system that would= =20 make a great sysadmin out of our mother, and the sysadmins will be=20 considered gods. They will thank you, and repay you in patches, beer and=20 possibly their own employer's sponsorship and employment. - Whether the installer is graphical or not is not the issue. Grey boxes on a blue background with yellow, red and black text is just plain ugly to a society that understands art and interior design. I know you're limited on pallet due to the restrictions of the console, but you can make sysinstall nicer just by changing the colour scheme. You can make it a hell of a lot= =20 nicer by making it consistent and functionally useful. - A graphic installer would be nice though, because novice users need a bit= =20 of cuddling in those first few scary hours when new to the OS. We should no= t=20 be scared of cuddling out users. For FBSD to attract money and R&D, we=20 should not pretend that this is a members-only boys club and if you don't= =20 know what a disk sector is you're obviously too stupid to get any benefit= =20 out of running a Unix-like operating system. - The KDE and Gnome stuff going on around FBSD, in my opinion, needs a=20 helping hand or three so that when somebody installs KDE on FBSD, there is= =20 FBSD related stuff in the menus, FBSD themes, the whole lot, a la Redhat,= =20 Mandrake, and so on. This is not dumbing down. This is helping people who= =20 want to run a fancy window manager get the most out of their system. It=20 helps advocacy. And besides, those guys could do with the help anyway, it's= =20 a lonely thankless job, and yet it has one of the biggest potential impacts= =20 on manager and/or investor perception. Anyway, there's loads more I could go on with, but you get the idea. The installer is the least visible piece of software in the whole project in general day-to-day use - which is worrying, because everybody would agree that title should really be going to send-pr and no other - but it's also the one that carries the greatest benefit to ports, pkg management, general user experience, and so on, just by sitting down and thinking about it collectively. My vote is we should be looking to mirror the Solaris installer - when you're installing single machines you can do other things in the background, and when you're installing a machine room full of kit, JumpStart helps out.= =20 And yes, I am starting to work on this. It's not going to get even near=20 Alpha before the year end though because I'm busy, but if somebody wants to= =20 grab the design out of my hands, drop me a line. If you really want to get into this, this weekend in Cardiff the UK-users are meeting up for a few drinks to celebrate the 10th anniversary of FreeBSD (which I believe is tomorrow, the 19th). I'm sure more discussion will be on-going there. Or at least, I know me and Paul Richards will be pontificating. :-) =20 > This frees up the size restrictions on the installer, and lets people > without a floppy install easily, all without making anyone download > a 600M file to do so. The issue is, one file for anything is wrong. I *should* be able to write the various packages (base, src, ports, manpages, etc.) as seperate files to a CD in way I see fit and still get an installer onto a floppy that auto-magically does the whole thing. Think outside of the box. ISO images are *not* the way to go for install=20 distributions on the long-term. Drag-and-drop however could produce a user= =20 ISO that would be useful for a certain class of user. --=20 Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 03:06:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131D937B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49DF43F3F for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IA6Db0068024; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:06:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5IA6Dlh068023; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:06:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:06:13 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20030618100613.GA67909@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> <3EF01817.3186204C@mindspring.com> <20030618084510.GB67404@freebie.xs4all.nl> <3EF035C8.FF957A9B@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF035C8.FF957A9B@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:06:17 -0000 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 02:50:00AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? > > > > > > Since it's part of a sealed court record, with non-disclosure > > > agreements required of both parties as the only publically > > > acknowledged part of the agreement, you would have to file a > > > Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request to view the settlement. > > > > Pfff.. sealed court record. Something you expect of a child abuse > > court case, not for a argument about bloody source code. > > Most settled cases result in a sealed record. It's one of > the main incentives to settle: so that the publicity doesn't > damage your business, in case you act like an idiot. 8-). ^ ^ exactly my point ;) -- | / o / /_ _ wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 03:14:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F8337B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (atlas.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.194.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C33343F93 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:14:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stolz@i2.informatik.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from menelaos.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (menelaos.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.194.73]) 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id h5IAEJK28380 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:14:19 +0200 Received: (from stolz@localhost)h5IAEJgv049537 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:14:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stolz) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:14:19 +0200 From: Volker Stolz To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030618101419.GE1133@i2.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-PGP-Key: finger vs@foldr.org X-PGP-Id: 0x3FD1B6B5 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: ITIMER_VIRTUAL running in child after fork()? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:14:22 -0000 The man page for fork() says: "· All interval timers are cleared; see setitimer(2)." So clearly ITIMER_VIRTUAL should be cleared as well, but a quick test showed that a fork()ed child still has the VIRTUAL (& PROF) timer running. Is this right? -- http://www-i2.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/stolz/ *** PGP *** S/MIME rage against the finite state machine From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 03:24:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D73837B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.x123.info (165.Red-80-37-224.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.37.224.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D34343FA3 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:24:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from esn@x123.info) Received: (qmail 88598 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 10:23:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wire.x123.info) (esn@192.168.1.2) by 0 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 10:23:57 -0000 From: "Sebastian Yepes [ESN]" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:24:36 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <200306172121.20684.esn@x123.info> <001a01c33519$72924930$4bc8a8c0@orac> In-Reply-To: <001a01c33519$72924930$4bc8a8c0@orac> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-UID: 220 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="Boundary-00=_k3D8+k1SFjNvPMj" Message-Id: <200306181224.36092.esn@x123.info> X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Re: BCM4401 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:24:06 -0000 --Boundary-00=_k3D8+k1SFjNvPMj Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ThanX for the replay.. Ok i am running 5-Current on a Dell inspiron 8500 I don't have much time right now for testing so i am just sending you the logs, after this week end i well be totally free for fully testing.. If you need other HW for testing i can set you up with a shell on the Notebook and live it on Internet.. well keep talking... By the way your driver du's not like my X.. if i kldload it when i have X running it kills the system.. well this is not a problem for now ; ) And don't weary i was not ofended... xDD On Tuesday 17 June 2003 21:43, you wrote: > From: "Sebastian Yepes [ESN]" > > > I ahve seend that you are porting the > > linux(http://www.broadcom.com/docs/driver-download.html) bcm4401 driver > > to freebsd.. > > > > i well like to help on testing.. > > cool - are you a bit of hacker? If so, you should be able to cope with the > request below, and the explaination. If not, or you don't understand the > stuff below, then maybe the driver is not yet ready > for you (no offence intended). > > The driver is not very ready (as I have some problems interrupt problems), > but can transmit. Receive is a not working. If you can build the > > http://people.freebsd.org/~dmlb/bcm.tar.gz > > as a module, kldload it and then > ifconfig bcm0 192.168.0.1 > ping -c 1 192.168.0.0 > and send me the copious dmesg output I would be very grateful. > > The mahcine I am developing on has a problem with interrupts. There is a > problem with RX DMA descriptors that I haven't figured out. > > > how is the progress going > > Duncan > > dmlb@dmlb.org > dmlb@freebsd.org -- /* FingerPrint: 5BF1 58B1 DE75 CBE3 6044 7098 1246 1EF6 9E78 041C @@@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@@ @@! @@@ !@@ @@! @@@ @!@!@!@ !@@!! @!@ !@! !!: !!! !:! !!: !!! :: : :: ::.: : :: : : The Power To Kill LinuX */ --Boundary-00=_k3D8+k1SFjNvPMj-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 03:44:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9D237B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5309743F85 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:44:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IAinb0068162; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:44:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5IAimSf068161; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:44:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:44:48 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20030618104448.GA68146@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617121424.GA11867@mooseriver.com> <3EF01817.3186204C@mindspring.com> <20030618084510.GB67404@freebie.xs4all.nl> <3EF035C8.FF957A9B@mindspring.com> <20030618100613.GA67909@freebie.xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030618100613.GA67909@freebie.xs4all.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:44:51 -0000 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:06:13PM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 02:50:00AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > > Where can one find a copy of the settlement agreement? > > > > > > > > Since it's part of a sealed court record, with non-disclosure > > > > agreements required of both parties as the only publically > > > > acknowledged part of the agreement, you would have to file a > > > > Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request to view the settlement. > > > > > > Pfff.. sealed court record. Something you expect of a child abuse > > > court case, not for a argument about bloody source code. > > > > Most settled cases result in a sealed record. It's one of > > the main incentives to settle: so that the publicity doesn't > > damage your business, in case you act like an idiot. 8-). > ^ > ^ exactly my point ;) Or: in the case of child abuse: "to protect the innocent" in the case of the source code: "to protect the idiots" 8-)) -- | / o / /_ _ wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 08:23:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D3D37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.dedicatedsrvr.net (host.dedicatedsrvr.net [66.96.230.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89DC43FCB for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Received: from dial37-1.sbm.net.sa ([212.46.37.1] helo=[10.0.0.1]) by host.dedicatedsrvr.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Semo-0005KF-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:23:47 -0700 From: Samy Al Bahra To: Paul Robinson In-Reply-To: <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 Date: 18 Jun 2003 18:23:42 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.dedicatedsrvr.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - kerneled.com cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:23:54 -0000 If we adopt a dl-based framework for the installer, we can shrink it down pretty much to whatever size we want (and memory usage can be less. YaST, one of the most feature-packed installers out there (SuSE) takes up less RAM than sysinstall!). This also gives us the ability to have plugins across various floppies. > - The project will never agree what is required of the installer, as > everybody has their own agenda. Some see FBSD as a server OS that could do > desktop, others want to push it forward as generic "one-fits-all" OS that's > as good at desktop work as it is at server work. The installer needs to be > able to mirror the user's wishes there and then. A plugin-based architecture will allow us to choose between various UIs (ncurses, QT, etc...). > - Whether the installer is graphical or not is not the issue. Grey boxes on > a blue background with yellow, red and black text is just plain ugly to a > society that understands art and interior design. I know you're limited on > pallet due to the restrictions of the console, but you can make sysinstall > nicer just by changing the colour scheme. You can make it a hell of a lot > nicer by making it consistent and functionally useful. Just as YaST, a libsysinstall can be provided to provide a standard UI API for applications to use + various UI plugins (ncurses, QT, GTK, Xaw, you name it) and configuration modules (users, network, ports, etc...). Though, before we all get excited about the possibilities of such an installer, what's happening with libh? Isn't it supposed to deal with all of sysintall's short-comings? All I see now is a lot of talk and no code, maybe such discussion should go to libh's mailing list (where we can talk design there)? > - The KDE and Gnome stuff going on around FBSD, in my opinion, needs a > helping hand or three so that when somebody installs KDE on FBSD, there is > FBSD related stuff in the menus, FBSD themes, the whole lot, a la Redhat, > Mandrake, and so on. This is not dumbing down. This is helping people who > want to run a fancy window manager get the most out of their system. It > helps advocacy. And besides, those guys could do with the help anyway, it's > a lonely thankless job, and yet it has one of the biggest potential impacts > on manager and/or investor perception. marcus@ is working on this for GNOME's case ATL. A new splash screen for GNOME2 will be there soon (bunch of backgrounds hopefully soon). I really do believe all interested artists should come and work together to finish off a whole FreeBSD art pack (for use by KDE and GNOME2). We should look around for them, maybe create a mailing list of some sort for them and get them to work together. -- +-----------------------------------+ | Samy Al Bahra | samy@kerneled.com | +-----------------------------------+ Arabeyes.org Kerneled.com FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 08:40:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356BA37B418; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.qc.uunet.ca (mail2.qc.uunet.ca [198.168.54.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCC243FAF; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarcat@espresso-com.com) Received: from xtanbul.studio.espresso-com.com ([216.94.147.57]) by mail2.qc.uunet.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5IFeCVT029536; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:40:12 -0400 Received: from anarcat by xtanbul.studio.espresso-com.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19Sf2j-0000EF-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:40:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:40:13 -0400 From: The Anarcat To: Samy Al Bahra Message-ID: <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> Mail-Followup-To: The Anarcat , Samy Al Bahra , Paul Robinson , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-libh@freebsd.org References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: The Anarcat cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:40:23 -0000 (or Yet Another Package Installer Bikeshed) [libh CC'd, for the archives] On mer jun 18, 2003 at 06:23:42 +0300, Samy Al Bahra wrote: > > - Whether the installer is graphical or not is not the issue. Grey boxes on > > a blue background with yellow, red and black text is just plain ugly to a > > society that understands art and interior design. I know you're limited on > > pallet due to the restrictions of the console, but you can make sysinstall > > nicer just by changing the colour scheme. You can make it a hell of a lot > > nicer by making it consistent and functionally useful. Who cares really... Are you going to code it? Are you going to rewrite sysinstall and provide support or are you going to rewrite dialog? I'm getting *really* tired of random people popping up on mailing lists and saying what should and shouldn't be done and complaining about how sysinstall sucks. Yes it sucks! So what? What are you going to do about it? > Just as YaST, a libsysinstall can be provided to provide a standard UI > API for applications to use + various UI plugins (ncurses, QT, GTK, Xaw, > you name it) and configuration modules (users, network, ports, etc...). > Though, before we all get excited about the possibilities of such an > installer, what's happening with libh? Isn't it supposed to deal with > all of sysintall's short-comings? All I see now is a lot of talk and no > code, maybe such discussion should go to libh's mailing list (where we > can talk design there)? Nothing's happening with libh. I suggest you folks to stop talking and start designing. If someone can come with a clean design of a new package manager/installer, then *maybe* something could come out of it, but in all the time I've been interested in package management in BSD, all the talk I've seen has been moot (e.g. I want a GTK installer! I want a pkgAPI!), without any actual code or design. Just talk impeding progress. The only real improvement I'm aware of is portupgrade, which is doing an extraordinaire job considering the architechture, and just popped up without prior useless, endless, close-minded discussions. Let us not forget Colin's binary upgrade software which looks increasingly interesting. libh's dead, folks. It's been dead for a good while now. I was just kicking it to make it look like we could tear something out of this monster. Now back to your scheduled bikeshed. A. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 08:50:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C02637B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.su (mx.demos.su [194.87.0.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C550743F85 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:50:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mitya@fling-wing.demos.su) Received: from [194.87.5.69] (HELO fling-wing.demos.su) by demos.su (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1b7/D) with ESMTP-TLS id 76371435 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:50:18 +0400 Received: from fling-wing.demos.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fling-wing.demos.su (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5IFoH5R089171 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:50:17 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from mitya@fling-wing.demos.su) Received: (from mitya@localhost) by fling-wing.demos.su (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h5IFoGvI089170 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:50:16 +0400 (MSD) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:50:16 +0400 From: Dmitry Sivachenko To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030618155016.GA88834@fling-wing.demos.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline WWW-Home-Page: http://mitya.pp.ru/ X-PGP-Key: http://mitya.pp.ru/mitya.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: struct ipc_perm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:50:23 -0000 Hello! Is there any reason why struct ipc_perm is not protected by #ifdef _KERNEL in ipc.h? Is it supposed to be used from userland? Thanks! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 09:08:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F168B37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peedub.jennejohn.org (p213.54.231.109.tisdip.tiscali.de [213.54.231.109]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602F343FA3 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garyj@jennejohn.org) Received: from peedub.jennejohn.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.jennejohn.org (8.12.9/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5IG8bvI011153; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:08:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.jennejohn.org) Message-Id: <200306181608.h5IG8bvI011153@peedub.jennejohn.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Dmitry Sivachenko In-Reply-To: Message from Dmitry Sivachenko <20030618155016.GA88834@fling-wing.demos.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:08:37 +0200 From: Gary Jennejohn cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: struct ipc_perm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:08:49 -0000 Dmitry Sivachenko writes: > Hello! > > Is there any reason why struct ipc_perm is not protected by #ifdef _KERNEL > in ipc.h? Is it supposed to be used from userland? > It's needed by ipcs. --- Gary Jennejohn / garyj[at]jennejohn.org gj[at]freebsd.org gj[at]denx.de From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 09:14:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F105A37B405 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.dedicatedsrvr.net (host.dedicatedsrvr.net [66.96.230.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B575043FBF for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Received: from dial36-69.sbm.net.sa ([212.46.36.69] helo=[10.0.0.1]) by host.dedicatedsrvr.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19SfZm-0008Io-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:14:23 -0700 From: Samy Al Bahra To: Paul Robinson In-Reply-To: <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1055952858.92188.17.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 Date: 18 Jun 2003 19:14:18 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.dedicatedsrvr.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - kerneled.com cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:14:28 -0000 and amen to anarcat's words :) -- +-----------------------------------+ | Samy Al Bahra | samy@kerneled.com | +-----------------------------------+ Arabeyes.org Kerneled.com FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 09:25:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2D237B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.su (mx.demos.su [194.87.0.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7898643FA3 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mitya@fling-wing.demos.su) Received: from [194.87.5.69] (HELO fling-wing.demos.su) by demos.su (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1b7/D) with ESMTP-TLS id 76381200; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:25:53 +0400 Received: from fling-wing.demos.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fling-wing.demos.su (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5IGPr5R092558; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:25:53 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from mitya@fling-wing.demos.su) Received: (from mitya@localhost) by fling-wing.demos.su (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h5IGPlnQ092549; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:25:47 +0400 (MSD) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:25:47 +0400 From: Dmitry Sivachenko To: Gary Jennejohn Message-ID: <20030618162547.GA91861@fling-wing.demos.su> References: <20030618155016.GA88834@fling-wing.demos.su> <200306181608.h5IG8bvI011153@peedub.jennejohn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306181608.h5IG8bvI011153@peedub.jennejohn.org> WWW-Home-Page: http://mitya.pp.ru/ X-PGP-Key: http://mitya.pp.ru/mitya.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: struct ipc_perm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:25:56 -0000 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 06:08:37PM +0200, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > Dmitry Sivachenko writes: > > Hello! > > > > Is there any reason why struct ipc_perm is not protected by #ifdef _KERNEL > > in ipc.h? Is it supposed to be used from userland? > > > > It's needed by ipcs. > Ah, I see. It is visible via struct msqid_ds. I developed a patch which requires addition of custom field to ipc_perm. I am trying to imagine which problems can it cause to userland programs. Any ideas? Thanks! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 12:12:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A53B637B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B9B43F3F for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:12:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from queasyweasel.com (jkh@narcissus.queasyweasel.com [64.173.15.99])h5IJAF2J033498; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:10:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:12:15 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: Paul Robinson From: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:12:18 -0000 On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 03:01 AM, Paul Robinson wrote: > I hate sysinstall. I had some spare time and was > going to start on something when Jordan piped up with libh. I'm not > sure if > libh was the right way to go anyway - it just prettied up sysinstall > and > made it more confusing to a novice user. Hmmm. That is an interesting statement given that libh has not made any attempt so far to "pretty up sysinstall" or has really provided anything in the way of an installer so far. The first and foremost goal of libh was to provide a set of "base primitives" which would deal with various architectural issues common to any installer effort, issues such as: 1. Providing a user interface abstraction layer so the same installer (whatever it ended up looking like) could end up running on X displays or serial consoles. 2. Providing reversible upgrades and a central software registration database so that the artificial distinction between things added via ports and things added via "the base install" could finally be removed. 3. Adding the notion of flexible security policies so that the administrator could choose how and where various packages were installed on the system, prohibiting "rogue packages" from splatting themselves just anywhere. These are just three of the challenges libh has taken on and by no means an exhaustive list. Nowhere, however, is any intention of "making sysinstall more pretty" or even following in sysinstall's footsteps in any way. If you've seen any UI's for libh to date, they've been essentially mock-ups who's sole purpose was to demonstrate the various capabilities of the UI abstraction layer. Most discussions around the various approaches to actual system installation have focused on how NOT to present UI to the user and to streamline the process for users who just don't care about the details and want to answer, at most, a question or two up-front about whether or not the installer should take over all disk space on the system or just the unpartitioned space and what sort of role the system is expected to play (desktop, server, etc). After that, the installer is expected to simply DTRT. If people want to discuss installation from the perspective of 'mechanism', I think they'd do better to focus on just how to break it into two parts: The installation bootstrap, which would be designed to be very small and largely do little more than find some larger media somewhere (CD, network, ...) establish where the system's boot partition is going to be and copy the 2nd stage install into it. Then you can reboot off the hard drive and get much fancier with a VGA16 X server or ncurses based installer which uses as much of the UI capabilities as are available depending on what the person doing the install is sitting in front of. -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 12:18:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE4337B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00AC943FB1 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:18:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from queasyweasel.com (jkh@narcissus.queasyweasel.com [64.173.15.99])h5IJG62J033511; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:18:06 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: Samy Al Bahra From: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> Message-Id: <96EF329E-A1C1-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:18:09 -0000 The principal problem with libh is too many chiefs and not enough indians. Poor Alex and Max have done a HUGE amount of work on the system but it's large enough in scope that 2 people cannot hope to do it all by themselves, particularly when there's no relief shift to take things over when they get tired occasionally. From an architectural perspective, there's nothing which would stop libh from fulfilling all the dreams I've seen laid out here (and a number people haven't even mentioned yet, like scriptable installs or alternate look-and-feels). The principle thing standing in the way of this and every other "let's get rid of sysinstall" effort, for that matter, is a lack of engineers. This one's a bit like government. Everyone has an opinion about how it should work or what it could be doing better, but very few people want to actually get involved in changing it. :-) On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 08:23 AM, Samy Al Bahra wrote: > Though, before we all get excited about the possibilities of such an > installer, what's happening with libh? Isn't it supposed to deal with > all of sysintall's short-comings? All I see now is a lot of talk and no > code, maybe such discussion should go to libh's mailing list (where we > can talk design there)? > -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 12:20:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C25337B401; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D8E43FA3; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:20:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from queasyweasel.com (jkh@narcissus.queasyweasel.com [64.173.15.99])h5IJID2J033518; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:18:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:20:14 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: The Anarcat From: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:20:22 -0000 Sorry to hear you say that. It was probably the only effort (which attempted to solve the larger set of issues and not simply peck away at the problem piecemeal) to ever have any code associated with it. On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 08:40 AM, The Anarcat wrote: > libh's dead, folks. It's been dead for a good while now. I was just > kicking it to make it look like we could tear something out of this > monster. > -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 12:22:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E66437B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.yumyumyum.org (dsl092-171-091.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.171.91]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433C943FA3 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:22:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from culverk@yumyumyum.org) Received: by mailhub.yumyumyum.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3621D2A0; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.yumyumyum.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270C427A; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:22:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Culver To: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: <96EF329E-A1C1-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> Message-ID: <20030618151939.U80347@alpha.yumyumyum.org> References: <96EF329E-A1C1-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:22:45 -0000 > The principal problem with libh is too many chiefs and not enough > indians. Poor Alex and Max have done a HUGE amount of work on the > system but it's large enough in scope that 2 people cannot hope to do it > all by themselves, particularly when there's no relief shift to take > things over when they get tired occasionally. From an architectural > perspective, there's nothing which would stop libh from fulfilling all > the dreams I've seen laid out here (and a number people haven't even > mentioned yet, like scriptable installs or alternate look-and-feels). > The principle thing standing in the way of this and every other "let's > get rid of sysinstall" effort, for that matter, is a lack of engineers. > > This one's a bit like government. Everyone has an opinion about how it > should work or what it could be doing better, but very few people want > to actually get involved in changing it. :-) > What needs done right now? I havn't seen much on libh recently... where is the source at? How can I get a look at it, and a list of what needs done so I can help. Just today at work, a friend of mine asked me how to install FreeBSD. He had tried it and had no luck whatsoever, so I had to walk him through it step-by-step. This would go a long way towards making an install process that could, for example, give the user the option of a "newbie install" which would be all graphical and pretty with X and what-not, and a "experienced install" which would bascially be the same installer we have now, only written on top of libh. Anyway, I'm interested in helping, I have 2 or 3 nights a week where I could write some code after work. Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 12:26:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A480B37B407 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.yumyumyum.org (dsl092-171-091.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.171.91]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C14143F93 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from culverk@yumyumyum.org) Received: by mailhub.yumyumyum.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8459130D; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.yumyumyum.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 802192A0; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:26:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Culver To: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: <20030618151939.U80347@alpha.yumyumyum.org> Message-ID: <20030618152637.B80347@alpha.yumyumyum.org> References: <96EF329E-A1C1-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> <20030618151939.U80347@alpha.yumyumyum.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:26:48 -0000 Nevermind, I found it: http://rtp1.slowblink.com/~libh/ Thanks. Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 12:28:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF17F37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311A043F93 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:28:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from queasyweasel.com (jkh@narcissus.queasyweasel.com [64.173.15.99])h5IJQq2J033550; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:28:53 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: Kenneth Culver From: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: <20030618151939.U80347@alpha.yumyumyum.org> Message-Id: <185DF8D6-A1C3-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:28:55 -0000 Have a look at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/libh.html On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Kenneth Culver wrote: >> The principal problem with libh is too many chiefs and not enough >> indians. Poor Alex and Max have done a HUGE amount of work on the >> system but it's large enough in scope that 2 people cannot hope to do >> it >> all by themselves, particularly when there's no relief shift to take >> things over when they get tired occasionally. From an architectural >> perspective, there's nothing which would stop libh from fulfilling all >> the dreams I've seen laid out here (and a number people haven't even >> mentioned yet, like scriptable installs or alternate look-and-feels). >> The principle thing standing in the way of this and every other "let's >> get rid of sysinstall" effort, for that matter, is a lack of >> engineers. >> >> This one's a bit like government. Everyone has an opinion about how >> it >> should work or what it could be doing better, but very few people want >> to actually get involved in changing it. :-) >> > What needs done right now? I havn't seen much on libh recently... > where is > the source at? How can I get a look at it, and a list of what needs > done > so I can help. Just today at work, a friend of mine asked me how to > install FreeBSD. He had tried it and had no luck whatsoever, so I had > to > walk him through it step-by-step. This would go a long way towards > making > an install process that could, for example, give the user the option > of a > "newbie install" which would be all graphical and pretty with X and > what-not, and a "experienced install" which would bascially be the same > installer we have now, only written on top of libh. Anyway, I'm > interested > in helping, I have 2 or 3 nights a week where I could write some code > after work. > > Ken > -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 13:04:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB54037B401; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postal.sdsc.edu (postal.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E383A43F75; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:04:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from okumoto@ucsd.edu) Received: from multivac.sdsc.edu (IDENT:EJ/U3xYBkL8+qAjEhbeIhAq/f2Ree+kV@multivac.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.57]) h5IK4l109812; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from okumoto@localhost) by multivac.sdsc.edu (8.12.5+Sun/8.12.2/submit/3) id h5IK4kxX013079; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:04:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: multivac.sdsc.edu: okumoto set sender to okumoto@ucsd.edu using -f Sender: okumoto@multivac.sdsc.edu To: Jordan K Hubbard References: From: Max Okumoto Date: 18 Jun 2003 13:04:46 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 27 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:04:53 -0000 I am still doing work on it... but my normal job has been getting in the way for a while. Max Jordan K Hubbard writes: > Sorry to hear you say that. It was probably the only effort (which > attempted to solve the larger set of issues and not simply peck away > at the problem piecemeal) to ever have any code associated with it. > > On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 08:40 AM, The Anarcat wrote: > > > libh's dead, folks. It's been dead for a good while now. I was just > > kicking it to make it look like we could tear something out of this > > monster. > > > -- > Jordan K. Hubbard > Engineering Manager, BSD technology group > Apple Computer > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-libh@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-libh > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-libh-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 13:38:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E12D37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatorzone.com (gatormail.gatorzone.com [216.53.131.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85BF543FB1 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:38:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cd_freebsd@gatorzone.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:43:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200306181643.AA112656480@gatorzone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "cd_freebsd" To: X-Mailer: Subject: Performing Ioctls to Devices in Kernel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: cd_freebsd@gatorzone.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:38:35 -0000 I want to be able to send IOCTL commands to standard devices (fdd,cdrom,kbd) from my kernel driver. Whereas I can do reads and writes using the vn_rdwr commands, how do I do IOCTLS? VOP_IOCTL keeps giving me EINVAL when I try to send the DIOCGDINFO IOCTL. My code is basically NDINIT(&_VdFloppyND, LOOKUP, FOLLOW, UIO_SYSSPACE, "/dev/fd0", p); vn_open(&_VdFloppyND, FREAD, 0); osError = VOP_IOCTL(_VdFloppyND.ni_vp, DIOCGDINFO, (caddr_t)&dl, 0, // fflags ??? p->p_ucred, p); Questions: 1) Is there something I am doing wrong? 2) Should I use something else other than vn_open/vn_rdwr/VOP_*? The error occurs regardless whether the floppy is mounted or not. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 15:25:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E92837B401; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aeimail.aei.ca (aeimail.aei.ca [206.123.6.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED40243FDD; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:25:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx) Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (esriha8ohmkvvdic@dsl-133-253.aei.ca [66.36.133.253]) by aeimail.aei.ca (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id h5IMPFB15052; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anarcat.ath.cx (lenny.anarcat.ath.cx [192.168.0.4]) by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C9B9414; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EF0E6DD.8070804@anarcat.ath.cx> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:25:33 -0400 From: The Anarcat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030611 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jordan K Hubbard References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:25:24 -0000 Well, yes.. I'm sorry too. But I feel that libh's pseudo-existence is more a nuisance right now. The architecture of libh is a bit too big and has this exact problem of putting its hands in too many pieces (as some people have pointed out before). It's really hard to "get into" libh, even for people that actually worked with it before. So libh is always brought back as that "effort in progress" precluding other efforts to build up, the way I see it. So I'm thereby stopping the discourse of saying "libh development is slow". It's stopped. I'd like to see libh's concept recuperated in a fresh implementation instead of the current one, especially since we now have SWIG and don't need to implement our own TCL magic! :) If I ever work again on libh, it'll be a rewrite. That should prove interesting. ;) A. Jordan K Hubbard wrote: >Sorry to hear you say that. It was probably the only effort (which >attempted to solve the larger set of issues and not simply peck away at >the problem piecemeal) to ever have any code associated with it. > >On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 08:40 AM, The Anarcat wrote: > > > >>libh's dead, folks. It's been dead for a good while now. I was just >>kicking it to make it look like we could tear something out of this >>monster. >> >> From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 15:27:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E0837B401; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aeimail.aei.ca (aeimail.aei.ca [206.123.6.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FDD43F75; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:27:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx) Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (w1cfoyjlaeuipbsp@dsl-133-253.aei.ca [66.36.133.253]) by aeimail.aei.ca (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id h5IMRUB17042; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:27:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anarcat.ath.cx (lenny.anarcat.ath.cx [192.168.0.4]) by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CA9414; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3EF0E766.3020801@anarcat.ath.cx> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:27:50 -0400 From: The Anarcat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030611 Thunderbird/0.1a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max Okumoto References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Jordan K Hubbard Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:27:33 -0000 Max Okumoto wrote: >I am still doing work on it... but my normal job has been >getting in the way for a while. > > Max > > I'm sorry Max. I guess I should have used a bit more diplomacy. But the way I see it, libh was dead even before you got in, the same way it was almost dead before I got in. You've done an awesome job considering the circumstances, but I'm out, for now. ;) No use pretending otherwise. Cheers, A. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 17:30:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E5737B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9910D43FAF for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:30:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 8C2FE5269E; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:00:54 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:00:54 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20030619003054.GC93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="eZmbrWU10I35niuH" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:30:28 -0000 --eZmbrWU10I35niuH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday, 18 June 2003 at 2:38:34 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> Yes, it reminded me of that thread, but wkt was actually referring to >> System III, not 32V. > > I am also pretty certain that it was widely stated at the time > that the UCB's license was the older Western Electric license, > which is the same license which allowed Lyon's to publish his > commentary, legally, including the kernel source code. I suppose you mean John Lions. He got into a lot of trouble for that, and I doubt he would have got away with it in the USA. > While the university, proper, did obtain a more modern license, that > license could not be retroactive to change the terms of the original > license. Which university are you talking about? UCB or UNSW? > The original licenses were very lenient in their terms, since, at > the time, the 1956 consent decreee prohibited them from making money > from software sales, as part of their being a regulated monopoly at > the time. It was only later, after the breakup, that they were > permitted to profit from sales of their software. And that's when > license fees went up. There's a difference between fees and conditions. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --eZmbrWU10I35niuH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+8QQ+IubykFB6QiMRAlMnAJ9e+ntHUdaDU8tPH6IuO2KfziujaQCeKv71 L4ehVNcCjWD19K1fkI/Lv74= =xRcm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --eZmbrWU10I35niuH-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 21:29:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7ADE37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.goamerica.net (ny-mx-02.goamerica.net [208.200.67.109]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB94943FBF for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eaja@erols.com) Received: from localhost (165.sub-166-141-30.myvzw.com [166.141.30.165]) by smtp.goamerica.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h5J4TQ9I009235 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:28:27 -0400 From: Eric Jacobs To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030619002827.561faeda.eaja@erols.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: timeout(9), mutexes, and races X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:29:45 -0000 The other day, I had a panic with my 5.1-RELEASE kernel when I removed my Cardbus NIC (3Com 3c575B Fast Etherlink XL, using the xl driver.) The traceback indicated a pretty uninteresting race between a timeout routine (xl_stats_update) and the card being detached. xl_stats_update was being called after the device's softc had been freed. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, but the following caught my eye in kern_timeout.c: mtx_unlock_spin(&callout_lock); if (!(c_flags & CALLOUT_MPSAFE)) mtx_lock(&Giant); The timeout(9) callouts never have the CALLOUT_MPSAFE flag set, so we always try to acquire Giant here. But there's an gap where we can be preempted (mtx_lock is specifically documented that it can do this), and so the cardbus interrupt could be serviced at this time, removing the callout entry but still calling it here when Giant is finally acquired. Would the solution be to try to detect this condition (callout removed in an intervening thread) somehow? In the new callout interface, clients are responsible for allocating the callout struct, so it may not even exist by the time we get to check it. The situation seems to be even worse for CALLOUT_MPSAFE entries, because it wouldn't help to check it before the mutex has been locked, but if it's not Giant, we have no way of knowing what mutex it would be... Or is there another way to solve this somehow? Or am I completely missing this and seeing the wrong problem? :) Any ideas would be appreciated. Eric From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 18 23:59:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E29E637B401 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CEC443F93 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:59:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfk2f.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.208.79] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19StO8-0006Zh-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:59:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF15EE7.A414AD5A@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:57:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jordan K Hubbard References: <96EF329E-A1C1-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a47554bd7cb27fbab1f4d8b9d802b27f85a7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:59:53 -0000 Jordan K Hubbard wrote: > This one's a bit like government. Everyone has an opinion about how it > should work or what it could be doing better, but very few people want > to actually get involved in changing it. :-) It's not so much that, as that there are so many politicians waiting in the wings to tack pork and unfunded mandates onto the bill before they're willing to let it onto the floor ("Oh! The devfs must support persistence before we let it in, even though almost no one relies on that feature being there!", etc.). It would be nicer if there could just be a land grant to one or two people over that area, and whatever they said goes, if you are inside those borders ("Bob and Tom own the installer; you want to work on it, talk to one of them; you don't like a change that's happened, talk to them; if they're unresponsive, be prepared to have to find 66% of people to agree with you, because we're going to cut them a lot of slack, once they own the area"). Changing a single city ordinance is really impossible, if the county, state, federal government, the UN, Green Peace, and Amnesty International all insist that they have to approve the ordinance before you're allowed to put it into effect. 8-(. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 00:57:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E15637B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F3C43FBF for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:57:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from queasyweasel.com (jkh@narcissus.queasyweasel.com [64.173.15.99])h5J7sv2J034627; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:56:58 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: Terry Lambert From: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: <3EF15EE7.A414AD5A@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <9A1542C4-A22B-11D7-AE42-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:57:01 -0000 I did try to get core to bless the libh effort and, in so doing, get more people to jump in and help Alex and Max, but it seems this particular bill's more like health care - nobody wants to touch it or sponsor it through the senate lest their names be linked with any failure. :-) - Jordan On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:57 PM, Terry Lambert wrote: > It would be nicer if there could just be a land grant to one > or two people over that area, and whatever they said goes, if > you are inside those borders ("Bob and Tom own the installer; > you want to work on it, talk to one of them; you don't like a > change that's happened, talk to them; if they're unresponsive, > be prepared to have to find 66% of people to agree with you, > because we're going to cut them a lot of slack, once they own > the area"). > -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 01:30:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB6B37B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AEC443F3F; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:30:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfk2f.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.208.79] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Suoh-00000d-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:30:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF17471.36CC59B9@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:29:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> <20030619003054.GC93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4480afc112eafc8661779e9973cb0b5f1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:30:52 -0000 Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 18 June 2003 at 2:38:34 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > >> Yes, it reminded me of that thread, but wkt was actually referring to > >> System III, not 32V. > > > > I am also pretty certain that it was widely stated at the time > > that the UCB's license was the older Western Electric license, > > which is the same license which allowed Lyon's to publish his > > commentary, legally, including the kernel source code. > > I suppose you mean John Lions. Yes. I always spell his name wrong. > He got into a lot of trouble for that, > and I doubt he would have got away with it in the USA. Really? Can you point to the signed non-disclosure agreement that he violated in order to publish his commentary? The U.S. was not nearly as anal about this stuff until the 1980's. > > While the university, proper, did obtain a more modern license, that > > license could not be retroactive to change the terms of the original > > license. > > Which university are you talking about? UCB or UNSW? UCB. > > The original licenses were very lenient in their terms, since, at > > the time, the 1956 consent decreee prohibited them from making money > > from software sales, as part of their being a regulated monopoly at > > the time. It was only later, after the breakup, that they were > > permitted to profit from sales of their software. And that's when > > license fees went up. > > There's a difference between fees and conditions. Sure; conditions are things you get your lawyers to write up, if it ever becomes possible to recover their fees. 8-). Until the Bill Gates diatribe about people trading software being stealing, no one considered software as real property: it was always the stuff that comes for free in order to get you to buy the computer from the vendor. You're in the area, aren't you? Why don't you ask to see the original license agreement that Lions was under at the time of his commentary's publication. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 01:57:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61BC637B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peedub.jennejohn.org (p213.54.218.196.tisdip.tiscali.de [213.54.218.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24B7343FAF for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:57:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garyj@jennejohn.org) Received: from peedub.jennejohn.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.jennejohn.org (8.12.9/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5J8ufPJ002065; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:56:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.jennejohn.org) Message-Id: <200306190856.h5J8ufPJ002065@peedub.jennejohn.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Dmitry Sivachenko In-Reply-To: Message from Dmitry Sivachenko <20030618162547.GA91861@fling-wing.demos.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:56:41 +0200 From: Gary Jennejohn cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: struct ipc_perm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:57:11 -0000 Dmitry Sivachenko writes: > On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 06:08:37PM +0200, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > > Dmitry Sivachenko writes: > > > Hello! > > > > > > Is there any reason why struct ipc_perm is not protected by #ifdef _KERNE > L > > > in ipc.h? Is it supposed to be used from userland? > > > > > > > It's needed by ipcs. > > > > Ah, I see. It is visible via struct msqid_ds. > > I developed a patch which requires addition of custom field to ipc_perm. > I am trying to imagine which problems can it cause to userland programs. > > Any ideas? > The usual way to handle this sort of change is to put any new structure elements at the end so that existing applications don't get confused. They simply aren't aware the new elements were added. Of course, this can cause problems when the kernel does a copyout() using the new size but the application passed a pointer to storage which can only hold the old, smaller structure. --- Gary Jennejohn / garyj[at]jennejohn.org gj[at]freebsd.org gj[at]denx.de From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 02:02:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD7A37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.su (mx.demos.su [194.87.0.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6697043FAF for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mitya@fling-wing.demos.su) Received: from [194.87.5.69] (HELO fling-wing.demos.su) by demos.su (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1b7/D) with ESMTP-TLS id 76547816; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:02:07 +0400 Received: from fling-wing.demos.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fling-wing.demos.su (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5J9275R098907; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:02:07 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from mitya@fling-wing.demos.su) Received: (from mitya@localhost) by fling-wing.demos.su (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h5J926YO098906; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:02:06 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:02:06 +0400 From: Dmitry Sivachenko To: Gary Jennejohn Message-ID: <20030619090206.GC94651@fling-wing.demos.su> References: <20030618162547.GA91861@fling-wing.demos.su> <200306190856.h5J8ufPJ002065@peedub.jennejohn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306190856.h5J8ufPJ002065@peedub.jennejohn.org> WWW-Home-Page: http://mitya.pp.ru/ X-PGP-Key: http://mitya.pp.ru/mitya.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: struct ipc_perm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:02:10 -0000 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 10:56:41AM +0200, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > Dmitry Sivachenko writes: > > On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 06:08:37PM +0200, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > > > > Dmitry Sivachenko writes: > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > Is there any reason why struct ipc_perm is not protected by #ifdef _KERNE > > L > > > > in ipc.h? Is it supposed to be used from userland? > > > > > > > > > > It's needed by ipcs. > > > > > > > Ah, I see. It is visible via struct msqid_ds. > > > > I developed a patch which requires addition of custom field to ipc_perm. > > I am trying to imagine which problems can it cause to userland programs. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > The usual way to handle this sort of change is to put any new structure > elements at the end so that existing applications don't get confused. > They simply aren't aware the new elements were added. Yes, that is exactly how I did it. > > Of course, this can cause problems when the kernel does a copyout() > using the new size but the application passed a pointer to > storage which can only hold the old, smaller structure. I didn't guess that. Probably this is why X-server crashed on my machine after that change. Recompilation fixed the problem. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 02:03:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86F737B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA57443F75 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id D48C251A9E; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:33:32 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:33:32 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20030619090332.GO93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> <20030619003054.GC93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF17471.36CC59B9@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wYx7iHgGHd1LEkZJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF17471.36CC59B9@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:03:05 -0000 --wYx7iHgGHd1LEkZJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday, 19 June 2003 at 1:29:37 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> On Wednesday, 18 June 2003 at 2:38:34 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >>>> Yes, it reminded me of that thread, but wkt was actually referring to >>>> System III, not 32V. >>> >>> I am also pretty certain that it was widely stated at the time >>> that the UCB's license was the older Western Electric license, >>> which is the same license which allowed Lyon's to publish his >>> commentary, legally, including the kernel source code. >> >> I suppose you mean John Lions. > > Yes. I always spell his name wrong. > >> He got into a lot of trouble for that, and I doubt he would have >> got away with it in the USA. > > Really? Can you point to the signed non-disclosure agreement > that he violated in order to publish his commentary? The U.S. > was not nearly as anal about this stuff until the 1980's. Things have got worse, yes. But certainly there was enough trouble in the 70s. >>> While the university, proper, did obtain a more modern license, that >>> license could not be retroactive to change the terms of the original >>> license. >> >> Which university are you talking about? UCB or UNSW? > > UCB. But John was at UNSW. > You're in the area, aren't you? =20 For some definition of area. UNSW is about 1400 km away. But I'll be in the area in about 6 weeks time. > Why don't you ask to see the original license agreement that Lions > was under at the time of his commentary's publication. I think I'll ask Greg Rose. He might have some interesting insights. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --wYx7iHgGHd1LEkZJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+8XxkIubykFB6QiMRAo5LAKCBYtcKiAUQcZ4X5cB45Ee06RneNgCfQixV ZuigxfbKgW1mOv1TYPqqJNk= =RJoU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wYx7iHgGHd1LEkZJ-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 02:55:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1956C37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend3.aha.ru (elk.zenon.net [213.189.198.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FCD943F3F for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:55:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend3.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 7721958 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:55:38 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00538 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:55:53 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306190955.NAA00538@slt.oz> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:54:31 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:55:43 -0000 Hello, I've been trying lately to develop a solution for the problem with open() that manifests itself in ESTALE error in the following situation: 1. NFS server: echo "1111" > file01 2. NFS client: cat file01 3. NFS server: echo "2222" > file02 && mv file02 file01 4. NFS client: cat file01 (either old file01 contents or ESTALE) My study shows that actually the problem appears to be in VOP_ACCESS() which is called from vn_open(). If nfs_access() decides to "go to the wire" in #4, it then uses a cached file handle which is indeed stale. Thus, open() eventually fails with ESTALE too (ESTALE comes from underlying nfs_request()). I understand all the fundamental NFS-related integrity problems, but not this one :) That is, I see no reason for open() to fail to open a file for reading or writing if the system knows the problem is it's own. Why not just do another lookup and try obtain a valid file handle? I was playing with different parts of the kernel while "fixing" this for myself. However, I believe, the simpliest patch would be for vfs_syscalls.c:open() (I've also made a working patch against vn_open(), though). Could anyone please be so kind to comment this issue? TIA --- kern/vfs_syscalls.c.orig Thu Jun 19 13:22:50 2003 +++ kern/vfs_syscalls.c Thu Jun 19 13:29:11 2003 @@ -1008,6 +1008,7 @@ int type, indx, error; struct flock lf; struct nameidata nd; + int stale = 0; oflags = SCARG(uap, flags); if ((oflags & O_ACCMODE) == O_ACCMODE) @@ -1025,8 +1026,15 @@ * the descriptor while we are blocked in vn_open() */ fhold(fp); +again: error = vn_open(&nd, flags, cmode); if (error) { + /* + * if the underlying filesystem returns ESTALE + * we must have used a cached file handle. + */ + if (error == ESTALE && stale++ == 0) + goto again; /* * release our own reference */ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 02:57:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9792337B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCED43F85; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:57:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19SwAl-0001sM-UW; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:57:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:57:39 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: The Anarcat , Samy Al Bahra , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> Sender: Paul Robinson Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:57:34 -0000 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 11:40:13AM -0400, The Anarcat wrote: > > > - Whether the installer is graphical or not is not the issue. Grey boxes on > > > a blue background with yellow, red and black text is just plain ugly to a > > > society that understands art and interior design. I know you're limited on > > > pallet due to the restrictions of the console, but you can make sysinstall > > > nicer just by changing the colour scheme. You can make it a hell of a lot > > > nicer by making it consistent and functionally useful. > > Who cares really... Are you going to code it? Are you going to rewrite > sysinstall and provide support or are you going to rewrite dialog? You're quoting me there. The answer to your question "Are you going to code it?" is "Yes". "Are you going to reqrite sysinstall and provide support or are you going to rewrite dialog?" - neither. I'm fed up of it sitting there too. I'm sick and tired of the discussions. So, after I've moved house this month, got my new machine sorted, and then I'll be sitting down to work on it. I'll do it my way, make it a port, and if others like it, I'll make it easy for them to use in building their own ISOs. I do not see a problem with this. As to what I'm writing, well, I'm going to do the design in about four weeks time, and anybody who is interested can take a look. An announcement will probably go up on -hackers and -libh... > I'm getting *really* tired of random people popping up on mailing > lists and saying what should and shouldn't be done and complaining > about how sysinstall sucks. Yes it sucks! So what? What are you going > to do about it? See above. > I suggest you folks to stop talking and start designing. If someone > can come with a clean design of a new package manager/installer, then > *maybe* something could come out of it, but in all the time I've been > interested in package management in BSD, all the talk I've seen has > been moot (e.g. I want a GTK installer! I want a pkgAPI!), without any > actual code or design. Just talk impeding progress. I want something that works. To be honest, just something that abstracts /usr/ports and makes use of the pkg-descr files would be more useful than the current blank void navigated with cd and more... > The only real improvement I'm aware of is portupgrade, which is doing > an extraordinaire job considering the architechture, and just popped > up without prior useless, endless, close-minded discussions. Let us > not forget Colin's binary upgrade software which looks increasingly > interesting. Yeah, noted. Good stuff. I'm just looking at putting a "friedndly" abstraction over that. > libh's dead, folks. It's been dead for a good while now. I was just > kicking it to make it look like we could tear something out of this > monster. It's not *that* bad is it? :-) -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 05:40:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B6737B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 05:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.aaanet.ru (smtp.aaanet.ru [80.80.111.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF11C43FDF for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 05:40:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bushman@rsu.ru) Received: from [80.80.96.15] (helo=p75) by smtp.aaanet.ru with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19Syhp-000JOO-W0 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:39:59 +0400 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:39:13 +0400 From: Michael Bushkov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62i) Organization: RSU X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michael Bushkov List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:40:02 -0000 Good day! Can anyone tell me if there is an implementation of nscd for FreeBSD? If there is no, who's currently working on it? Michael A. Bushkov Computer Center of Rostov State University mailto:bushman@rsu.ru From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 06:04:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D2537B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genua.rfc-networks.ie (genua.rfc-networks.ie [62.77.182.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DF143F85 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:04:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie) Received: from tear.domain (unknown [10.0.1.254]) by genua.rfc-networks.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5203548AD for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:04:26 +0100 (IST) Received: by tear.domain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B19BF21150; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:04:26 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:04:26 +0000 From: Philip Reynolds To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030619130426.GB69532@rfc-networks.ie> References: <20030618162547.GA91861@fling-wing.demos.su> <200306190856.h5J8ufPJ002065@peedub.jennejohn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306190856.h5J8ufPJ002065@peedub.jennejohn.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE X-URL: http://www.rfc-networks.ie Subject: Re: struct ipc_perm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:04:29 -0000 Gary Jennejohn 38 lines of wisdom included: > > Dmitry Sivachenko writes: > > Any ideas? > > > > The usual way to handle this sort of change is to put any new structure > elements at the end so that existing applications don't get confused. > They simply aren't aware the new elements were added. > > Of course, this can cause problems when the kernel does a copyout() > using the new size but the application passed a pointer to > storage which can only hold the old, smaller structure. Yeh, recompiling any applications using it, should work. They'll pick up the sizeof() the modified struct. -- Philip Reynolds | RFC Networks Ltd. philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie | +353 (0)1 8832063 http://people.rfc-networks.ie/~phil | www.rfc-networks.ie From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 06:23:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC8837B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (imap.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 09AC243F75 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:23:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mdcki@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 10146 invoked by uid 65534); 19 Jun 2003 13:23:33 -0000 Received: from pD9E2DC58.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO gmx.net) (217.226.220.88) by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 15:23:33 +0200 Message-ID: <3EF1B993.3050502@gmx.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:24:35 +0200 From: Marcin Dalecki User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030517 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, pl, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Bushkov References: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> In-Reply-To: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:23:36 -0000 Michael Bushkov wrote: > Good day! > Can anyone tell me if there is an implementation of nscd for FreeBSD? > If there is no, who's currently working on it? You can use bind in caching only mode. A far suprerior solution to the problem at hand. So there is no need for "takoje malenkoje gawno" as nscd is under Linux. > Michael A. Bushkov > Computer Center of Rostov State University > > mailto:bushman@rsu.ru > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 06:33:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B7037B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9801D43FCB for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19SzYE-0002BM-H6; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:34:06 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:34:06 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Samy Al Bahra Message-ID: <20030619133406.GI20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:33:55 -0000 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 06:23:42PM +0300, Samy Al Bahra wrote: > A plugin-based architecture will allow us to choose between various UIs > (ncurses, QT, etc...). Yup. Trick is to make the plugins as user-definable as possible. The trick here (and i've said this elsewhere, probably uk-users) is that an OEM should find it easier to ship customer FreeBSD boxes than Linux or Windows. That way, you get more users. More users, more visibility. More visibility, more sponsorship for employing people full-time on FBSD. More people, more code. More code, better OS. Better OS, more users. Hey, isn't this where we came in? I'm just confused people are so hostile towards this... fair enough, it's time to stop talking and start coding, but even so... Anyway, I'm rambling, but yes, highly modular, highly flexible, very lightweight in it's core but extendable. It's the way to go. > Just as YaST, a libsysinstall can be provided to provide a standard UI > API for applications to use + various UI plugins (ncurses, QT, GTK, Xaw, > you name it) and configuration modules (users, network, ports, etc...). > Though, before we all get excited about the possibilities of such an > installer, what's happening with libh? Isn't it supposed to deal with > all of sysintall's short-comings? All I see now is a lot of talk and no > code, maybe such discussion should go to libh's mailing list (where we > can talk design there)? Dead, dead, dead, dead, dead. This installer is dead. It is not pineing for the fd0s. :-) YaST might be your route, it's not mine. It's cool, but I'm going to work on something.. different. I'll give a heads up on it if you want to see when the design is done, but I can't see live code coming out as production ready until sometime around August 2004, with rough betas heading out of my machine sometime around May 2004 - there's a lot of other stuff that needs to be done before then.... Designs will be done probably before September this year, depending on what happens this weekend in Cardiff at the uk-users 10th birthday bash. > marcus@ is working on this for GNOME's case ATL. A new splash screen for > GNOME2 will be there soon (bunch of backgrounds hopefully soon). I > really do believe all interested artists should come and work together > to finish off a whole FreeBSD art pack (for use by KDE and GNOME2). We > should look around for them, maybe create a mailing list of some sort > for them and get them to work together. I think getting a focused group together who want to get FBSD onto the desktop would be a good idea. At the moment, there is lots of talk about installers, package management, etc. including this thread, clogging up either -hackers or -chat. It's time to move off. I propose somebody, somewhere, sets up freebsd-user-friendly@freebsd.org where the more UI centric and "working towards user friendliness" discussions can occur. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 07:13:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C26A37B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (esplanaden.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE3E43FDD; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:13:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JEDSjR003951; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:13:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:33:32 +0930." <20030619090332.GO93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:13:28 +0200 Message-ID: <3950.1056032008@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:13:37 -0000 In message <20030619090332.GO93137@wantadilla.lemis.com>, "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" writes: >>> I suppose you mean John Lions. >> >> Yes. I always spell his name wrong. >> >>> He got into a lot of trouble for that, and I doubt he would have >>> got away with it in the USA. >> >> Really? Can you point to the signed non-disclosure agreement >> that he violated in order to publish his commentary? The U.S. >> was not nearly as anal about this stuff until the 1980's. > >Things have got worse, yes. But certainly there was enough trouble in >the 70s. Peter Salus book "A Quarter Century of UNIX" mentioned that he got in trouble and that AT&T stopped the distribution (to the extent that they could). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 07:15:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E0D237B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD2E43F3F for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:15:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19T0C0-0002HR-P0; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:15:12 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:15:12 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Jordan K Hubbard Message-ID: <20030619141512.GJ20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: Paul Robinson cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:15:02 -0000 On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:12:15PM -0700, Jordan K Hubbard wrote: I was wondering when Jordan was going to come and beat me up... :-) > Hmmm. That is an interesting statement given that libh has not made > any attempt so far to "pretty up sysinstall" or has really provided > anything in the way of an installer so far. The first and foremost > goal of libh was to provide a set of "base primitives" which would deal > with various architectural issues common to any installer effort, > issues such as: OK, I remember seeing you announce libh. I'm not going to go back through the archives, but it was around the same time you made a posting saying you were really getting into package management. At the time three things were going on in my life: 1. I wanted to work on the installer and help get rid of sysinstall 2. I needed to find a job It took me 12 months to get #2 out of the way. In the mean time, I kept a distant eye on libh, but didn't get involved because I didn't have anywhere near enough time to give you code, or even come up with good arguments as to what I thought were valid points. As a result, my view of libh was limited, but looked at first (especially from the brief notes and screen shots I saw) as not a great deal more than replicating sysintstall with another interface. I stand corrected. Sorry to cause offence. > 1. Providing a user interface abstraction layer so the same installer > (whatever it ended up looking like) could end up running on X displays > or serial consoles. This, I remember, was a big part of libh. In my opinion things need to go further that that though. It's not just whether it's on a serial console or in pretty graphical SVGA mode, or in X, there's a big issue here about abstracting the process to the user's view of the world. libh was never going to get that going early on... > 2. Providing reversible upgrades and a central software registration > database so that the artificial distinction between things added via > ports and things added via "the base install" could finally be removed. That's package management. In fact, it's SCM, policy control and package management. It's one of the few areas MS does actually handle relatively well (compared to *nix), but I think whacking it into an installer is the wrong place. I know what you're saying though. > 3. Adding the notion of flexible security policies so that the > administrator could choose how and where various packages were > installed on the system, prohibiting "rogue packages" from splatting > themselves just anywhere. That's a huge issue. In fact, that's bigger than I really like to think about. Especially if you want users to be able to handle /usr/ports as well as pkg_add... > These are just three of the challenges libh has taken on and by no > means an exhaustive list. Nowhere, however, is any intention of > "making sysinstall more pretty" or even following in sysinstall's > footsteps in any way. I should repharse my statement too "functionally equivalent in the advanced user context view", but that sounds like shit. So I'll just say sorry for the confusion - I didn't mean "just prettying up sysinstall" as an insult to the work you and others have put in. > If you've seen any UI's for libh to date, they've been essentially > mock-ups who's sole purpose was to demonstrate the various capabilities > of the UI abstraction layer. Yeah, the screen shots do look like a drop-in replacement for sysinstall with knobs on. It take a little digging to find out more... > Most discussions around the various > approaches to actual system installation have focused on how NOT to > present UI to the user and to streamline the process for users who just > don't care about the details and want to answer, at most, a question or > two up-front about whether or not the installer should take over all > disk space on the system or just the unpartitioned space and what sort > of role the system is expected to play (desktop, server, etc). After > that, the installer is expected to simply DTRT. And that work will almost certainly get stolen wholesale and moved into the next installer project. :-) > If people want to discuss installation from the perspective of > 'mechanism', I think they'd do better to focus on just how to break it > into two parts: The installation bootstrap, which would be designed to > be very small and largely do little more than find some larger media > somewhere (CD, network, ...) establish where the system's boot > partition is going to be and copy the 2nd stage install into it. Then > you can reboot off the hard drive and get much fancier with a VGA16 X > server or ncurses based installer which uses as much of the UI > capabilities as are available depending on what the person doing the > install is sitting in front of. Hmmmm. See what you're saying. It would be easier, but ultimately, it's not a huge issue to give a comfortable UI in the space of a floppy. Perhaps I'm going mad, but last time I looked at this, it didn't seem to be a problem. Anyway, I vote for now that this correspondance is closed. if somebody sets up another mailing list for the purposes of making FreeBSD a friendly, cuddly, desktop wonder-land, maybe discussions there can go on, but until some code appears, let's shut the hell up. :-) -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 07:23:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A8137B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dire.bris.ac.uk (dire.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.60]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6935343F85 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:23:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jan.Grant@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk by dire.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:23:37 +0100 Received: from cmjg (helo=localhost) by mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 19T0FO-0005jC-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:18:42 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:18:42 +0100 (BST) From: Jan Grant X-X-Sender: cmjg@mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk To: Marcin Dalecki In-Reply-To: <3EF1B993.3050502@gmx.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Jan Grant cc: hackers cc: Michael Bushkov Subject: Re: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:23:52 -0000 On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Marcin Dalecki wrote: > Michael Bushkov wrote: > > Good day! > > Can anyone tell me if there is an implementation of nscd for FreeBSD? > > If there is no, who's currently working on it? > > You can use bind in caching only mode. A far suprerior solution > to the problem at hand. So there is no need for "takoje malenkoje gawno" as > nscd is under Linux. Recent discussions on -arch surprisingly managed to avoid the knee-jerk reactions due to other nscd _implementations_ while discussing the need to make /bin dynamically loaded to support NSS &co. The alternative (lookupd) approach was raised and seemed to find favour, but I don't know if that tactic has been adopted. FWIW I think it makes a lot of sense. -- jan grant, ILRT, University of Bristol. http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/ Tel +44(0)117 9287088 Fax +44 (0)117 9287112 http://ioctl.org/jan/ NB: with "Fundamental Human Rights" come "Fundamental Human Responsibilities". From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 07:27:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BB737B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend1.aha.ru (fish.zenon.net [213.189.198.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD70D43FD7 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:27:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend1.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 193157669 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:27:03 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00437 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:28:47 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306191428.SAA00437@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: <200306190955.NAA00538@slt.oz> from Andrey Alekseyev at "Jun 19, 3 01:54:31 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:28:45 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:27:08 -0000 Corrections: - the patch is against STABLE - I know the second lookup will fail if the *current* directory itself is stale :) > Could anyone please be so kind to comment this issue? In particular, I'd like to know if I need NDINIT before entering vn_open() again, as there are several comments throughout the code about "struct nd" not being safe after namei() and lookup(). However, the patch seems to work well without NDINIT. Another thing that interests me, is if any vnode leakage is possible with re-entering vn_open() for the second time. It seems to me that not (as the nd.ni_vp is vput()'d inside vn_open() in case of any error after a successful lookup with namei()). > --- kern/vfs_syscalls.c.orig Thu Jun 19 13:22:50 2003 > +++ kern/vfs_syscalls.c Thu Jun 19 13:29:11 2003 > @@ -1008,6 +1008,7 @@ > int type, indx, error; > struct flock lf; > struct nameidata nd; > + int stale = 0; > > oflags = SCARG(uap, flags); > if ((oflags & O_ACCMODE) == O_ACCMODE) > @@ -1025,8 +1026,15 @@ > * the descriptor while we are blocked in vn_open() > */ > fhold(fp); > +again: > error = vn_open(&nd, flags, cmode); > if (error) { > + /* > + * if the underlying filesystem returns ESTALE > + * we must have used a cached file handle. > + */ > + if (error == ESTALE && stale++ == 0) > + goto again; > /* > * release our own reference > */ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 07:44:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FD237B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Shenton.org (23.ebbed1.client.atlantech.net [209.190.235.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 659CA43F93 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:44:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@Shenton.Org) Received: (qmail 98673 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Jun 2003 14:44:05 -0000 To: Michael Bushkov References: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> From: Chris Shenton Date: 19 Jun 2003 10:44:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> Message-ID: <87k7bi86ve.fsf@PECTOPAH.shenton.org> Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:44:08 -0000 Michael Bushkov writes: > Can anyone tell me if there is an implementation of nscd for FreeBSD? For DNS information, have a look at "dnscache" from the djbdns suite. Small, secure, fast. http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html http://www.lifewithdjbdns.org/ If you're trying to cache other data, sorry to bother you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 07:51:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD0E37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.packet.org.uk (public2-with1-3-cust50.bagu.broadband.ntl.com [80.5.52.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7081343F75 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd-x@packet.org.uk) Received: from xaphod by mailgate.packet.org.uk with local (Exim 4.20) id 19T0jn-0009eA-Qh; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:50:07 +0000 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:50:07 +0100 From: Peter McGarvey To: Paul Robinson Message-ID: <20030619145007.GA36722@packet.org.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030619133406.GI20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030619133406.GI20204@iconoplex.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:51:36 -0000 * Paul Robinson [2003-06-19 14:34:36 BST]: > I think getting a focused group together who want to get FBSD onto the > desktop would be a good idea. At the moment, there is lots of talk about > installers, package management, etc. including this thread, clogging up > either -hackers or -chat. It's time to move off. I propose somebody, > somewhere, sets up freebsd-user-friendly@freebsd.org where the more UI > centric and "working towards user friendliness" discussions can occur. I'm with you on this. Although "freebsd-user-friendly@freebsd.org" implies FreeBSD is currently unfriendly, which IMHO is decidedly not the case. So as we're talking about making it easier to run FreeBSD on the desktop, I think "freebsd-desktop@freebsd.org" would be a better idea. -- TTFN, FNORD Peter McGarvey Freelance FreeBSD Hacker (will work for bandwidth) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 08:01:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C15237B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A80543FBD for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:01:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19T0tI-0002OL-BU; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:59:56 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:59:56 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Peter McGarvey Message-ID: <20030619145956.GL20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030619133406.GI20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030619145007.GA36722@packet.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030619145007.GA36722@packet.org.uk> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:01:09 -0000 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 03:50:07PM +0100, Peter McGarvey wrote: > I'm with you on this. You'll regret it... :-) > Although "freebsd-user-friendly@freebsd.org" implies FreeBSD is > currently unfriendly, which IMHO is decidedly not the case. So as we're > talking about making it easier to run FreeBSD on the desktop, I think > "freebsd-desktop@freebsd.org" would be a better idea. OK, that seems fine. The issue is as to whether this effort will produce anything with so much "we don't want to take the desktop market" sentiment around, in which case it might be time to consider... dare I say it... a code fork.... Let's see how -desktop works out. :-) -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 09:00:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE0D37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend2.aha.ru (bird.zenon.net [213.189.198.215]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A4143F3F for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:00:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend2.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 192742256 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:59:58 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00769 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:01:50 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306191601.UAA00769@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: <200306190955.NAA00538@slt.oz> from Andrey Alekseyev at "Jun 19, 3 01:54:31 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:01:49 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:00:02 -0000 Another correction: - statement below is valid for a configuration where nfsaccess_cache_timeout is generally less than acmin, otherwise chances are the failure will be VOP_OPEN while requesting new attributes by a call to VOP_GETATTR > which is called from vn_open(). If nfs_access() decides to "go to the wire" > in #4, it then uses a cached file handle which is indeed stale. Thus, > open() eventually fails with ESTALE too (ESTALE comes from underlying > nfs_request()). From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 09:03:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4AE037B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 94FC543F85 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:03:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mdcki@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 23912 invoked by uid 65534); 19 Jun 2003 16:03:35 -0000 Received: from pD9E2DC58.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO gmx.net) (217.226.220.88) by mail.gmx.net (mp007) with SMTP; 19 Jun 2003 18:03:35 +0200 Message-ID: <3EF1DF15.50209@gmx.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:04:37 +0200 From: Marcin Dalecki User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030517 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, pl, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Grant References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers cc: Michael Bushkov Subject: Re: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:03:38 -0000 Jan Grant wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Marcin Dalecki wrote: > > >>Michael Bushkov wrote: >> >>>Good day! >>>Can anyone tell me if there is an implementation of nscd for FreeBSD? >>>If there is no, who's currently working on it? >> >>You can use bind in caching only mode. A far suprerior solution >>to the problem at hand. So there is no need for "takoje malenkoje gawno" as >>nscd is under Linux. > > > Recent discussions on -arch surprisingly managed to avoid the knee-jerk > reactions due to other nscd _implementations_ while discussing the > need to make /bin dynamically loaded to support NSS &co. The alternative > (lookupd) approach was raised and seemed to find favour, but I don't > know if that tactic has been adopted. FWIW I think it makes a lot of > sense. Never mind I was just still under the "impression" of the nscd from the glibc package. It's making for example mozilla mourn for ages when you misstype an URL... Even for the common case of APACHE log analysis it's unusable, becouse quite commonly it will just overload the system bejoind hope... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 09:30:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5A737B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.packet.org.uk (public2-with1-3-cust50.bagu.broadband.ntl.com [80.5.52.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C689E43F85 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:30:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd-x@packet.org.uk) Received: from xaphod by mailgate.packet.org.uk with local (Exim 4.20) id 19T2Hg-000ARY-I4; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:29:12 +0000 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:29:12 +0100 From: Peter McGarvey To: Paul Robinson Message-ID: <20030619162912.GA39352@packet.org.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030619133406.GI20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030619145007.GA36722@packet.org.uk> <20030619145956.GL20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030619145956.GL20204@iconoplex.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drawing graphics on terminal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:30:38 -0000 * Paul Robinson [2003-06-19 16:01:12 BST]: > On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 03:50:07PM +0100, Peter McGarvey wrote: > > > I'm with you on this. > > You'll regret it... :-) > I'd likely regret not jumping on board more ;-) > > Although "freebsd-user-friendly@freebsd.org" implies FreeBSD is > > currently unfriendly, which IMHO is decidedly not the case. So as we're > > talking about making it easier to run FreeBSD on the desktop, I think > > "freebsd-desktop@freebsd.org" would be a better idea. > > OK, that seems fine. The issue is as to whether this effort will produce > anything with so much "we don't want to take the desktop market" sentiment > around, in which case it might be time to consider... dare I say it... a > code fork.... Oh dear, a fork would be a v. bad thing. So perhaps any Desktop FreeBSD projects should work from the perspective that a fork is, without exception, not an option. > > Let's see how -desktop works out. :-) > > -- > Paul Robinson -- TTFN, FNORD Peter McGarvey Freelance FreeBSD Hacker (will work for bandwidth) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 09:41:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72FDD37B404; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 505F143FDD; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Received: from acm.org (big.x.kientzle.com [66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JGdttJ062085; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Message-ID: <3EF1E7EC.3040908@acm.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:42:20 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: kientzle@acm.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:41:16 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > As to what I'm writing, well, I'm going to do the design in about four weeks > time, and anybody who is interested can take a look. An announcement will > probably go up on -hackers and -libh... > .... > I want something that works. To be honest, just something that abstracts > /usr/ports and makes use of the pkg-descr files would be more useful than > the current blank void navigated with cd and more... Paul, When you get ready to do some work, let me know. I've been rewriting the guts of pkg_add for the last month or two. I'm pretty pleased with the results so far, but there's still a lot of code to write. So far: * libtarfile works. This is a library that provides simple iteration over tarfiles. It handles format detection (e.g., both old/Posix/GNU formats and gzip/bzip2/etc compression), can 'extract' entries to disk or to an in-memory buffer, etc. The read support is pretty solid; the write support is just a sketch. * Direct package extraction works. I can open a package file from stdin, disk, ftp, etc, and just install it without having to create a temp directory or any of that nonsense. The idea: extract the packing list into memory, parse it, use it to direct the extraction of the rest of the package. This is _MUCH_ faster than the older pkg_add code. * I've also completely overhauled the packing-list parsing code and a lot of the other basic operations. Next steps: * Requirements handling: I have some recursive requirements handling, but I'm not entirely happy with it. I'm exploring other approaches. * Locating packages. This will probably involve building a DB file in /var/db/pkg to record information about what packages are available from which ftp sites, etc. * Handling conflicts gracefully. This may well involve building a DB file that maps filenames->package names so that an attempt to overwrite a file can be immediately tracked back to the conflicting package. * Building a useful library. I'm being careful to keep code as generic as possible, so it should be pretty simple to put a lot of the useful pieces (packing-list management, locating packages, etc) into a library. Like I said, let me know when you're ready to work on this. My stuff is still pretty rough in some spots, but a lot of it should prove useful to anyone working on install issues. Tim Kientzle From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 10:07:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D88AD37B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0532543F75; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:07:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19T2sw-0002aD-U4; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:07:42 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:07:42 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Tim Kientzle Message-ID: <20030619170742.GO20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EF1E7EC.3040908@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF1E7EC.3040908@acm.org> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:07:33 -0000 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:42:20AM -0700, Tim Kientzle wrote: > When you get ready to do some work, let me know. I've Will do. Just need to move, get DSL installed, and clear down some work and I'm looking at a year of clear weekends and evenings. And this is biting me up inside now... :-) > * libtarfile works. This is a library that provides > simple iteration over tarfiles. It handles format > detection (e.g., both old/Posix/GNU formats and > gzip/bzip2/etc compression), can 'extract' entries > to disk or to an in-memory buffer, etc. The read support > is pretty solid; the write support is just a sketch. v. cool. The other night when I was sitting in the pub sketching on beer mats and cigarette packets to work out what needed doing, one of the first things that sprung to mind was the ability to look inside, if not packages, at least tar files in memory just to get the juicy info out to present the user with choices as to whether that pkg is something they really want, and if so, not have to play around in /tmp or wherever... > * Direct package extraction works. I can open a package > file from stdin, disk, ftp, etc, and just install it > without having to create a temp directory or any of > that nonsense. The idea: extract the packing list > into memory, parse it, use it to direct the extraction > of the rest of the package. This is _MUCH_ faster > than the older pkg_add code. Hah. OK, item number two on the list is struck off. Cool. Looks like I'll be writing a GUI then? :-) > * Requirements handling: I have some recursive requirements > handling, but I'm not entirely happy with it. I'm exploring > other approaches. I'd be interested to know why you're not happy with it - is it the concept of recursiveness over a set of requirements in general you think is flawed, or is it your implementation which is niggling you? Requirements and dependancy tracking/handling are big issues. I've resorted to reading papers on how people have approached it in the past and have some vague ideas, and recursiveness has problems. Recursiveness is always problematic though, no matter what domain you take it too - branching is where I was thinking. > * Locating packages. This will probably involve building > a DB file in /var/db/pkg to record information about > what packages are available from which ftp sites, etc. Instead of retrieving the binary when you do a pkg_add -r perhaps you could end up grabbing a file that described where it could *really* be found (thereby alleviating mirrors from carrying GBs of packages, just the descriptions of where they are), including possible locations on disk, and ultimately, ports ... nothing stopping you shipping this db as part of the base install, or like ports is now, but then we get to crux: Shouldn't pkg_add be an abstraction of ports, with the advantage of grabbing a pre-built binary if it's available, with a command line switch to force a traditional cd /usr/ports/category/package; make install clean ??? At the moment we have ports, and we have packages. Maybe it's time to merge to the benefit of both? > Like I said, let me know when you're ready to work on this. > My stuff is still pretty rough in some spots, but a lot of > it should prove useful to anyone working on install issues. Yeah, certainly, thanks for the heads up. I'm sure I would have been hassling you in a fortnight anyway. :-) -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 11:24:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47DCB37B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.qc.uunet.ca (mail1.qc.uunet.ca [198.168.54.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3102443FBF; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarcat@espresso-com.com) Received: from xtanbul.studio.espresso-com.com ([216.94.147.57]) by mail1.qc.uunet.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JILqsB006773; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:21:52 -0400 Received: from anarcat by xtanbul.studio.espresso-com.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19T42i-0000HT-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:21:52 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:21:52 -0400 From: The Anarcat To: Tim Kientzle Message-ID: <20030619182151.GA1074@xtanbul> Mail-Followup-To: The Anarcat , Tim Kientzle , Paul Robinson , Samy Al Bahra , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-libh@freebsd.org References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EF1E7EC.3040908@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF1E7EC.3040908@acm.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: The Anarcat cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:24:40 -0000 Bravo! Now this is the talk I like to hear. :) Sorry to have been so negative in my last emails, I see there is good work going on. I have forgotten about you efforts, Tim. Don't give up! A. On jeu jun 19, 2003 at 09:42:20 -0700, Tim Kientzle wrote: > Paul Robinson wrote: > > As to what I'm writing, well, I'm going to do the design in about four weeks > > time, and anybody who is interested can take a look. An announcement will > > probably go up on -hackers and -libh... > > .... > > I want something that works. To be honest, just something that abstracts > > /usr/ports and makes use of the pkg-descr files would be more useful than > > the current blank void navigated with cd and more... > > > Paul, > > When you get ready to do some work, let me know. I've > been rewriting the guts of pkg_add for the last month > or two. I'm pretty pleased with the results so far, > but there's still a lot of code to write. > > So far: > * libtarfile works. This is a library that provides > simple iteration over tarfiles. It handles format > detection (e.g., both old/Posix/GNU formats and > gzip/bzip2/etc compression), can 'extract' entries > to disk or to an in-memory buffer, etc. The read support > is pretty solid; the write support is just a sketch. > * Direct package extraction works. I can open a package > file from stdin, disk, ftp, etc, and just install it > without having to create a temp directory or any of > that nonsense. The idea: extract the packing list > into memory, parse it, use it to direct the extraction > of the rest of the package. This is _MUCH_ faster > than the older pkg_add code. > * I've also completely overhauled the packing-list > parsing code and a lot of the other basic operations. > > Next steps: > * Requirements handling: I have some recursive requirements > handling, but I'm not entirely happy with it. I'm exploring > other approaches. > * Locating packages. This will probably involve building > a DB file in /var/db/pkg to record information about > what packages are available from which ftp sites, etc. > * Handling conflicts gracefully. This may well involve > building a DB file that maps filenames->package names > so that an attempt to overwrite a file can be immediately > tracked back to the conflicting package. > * Building a useful library. I'm being careful to keep code > as generic as possible, so it should be pretty simple > to put a lot of the useful pieces (packing-list management, > locating packages, etc) into a library. > > Like I said, let me know when you're ready to work on this. > My stuff is still pretty rough in some spots, but a lot of > it should prove useful to anyone working on install issues. > > Tim Kientzle > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 11:28:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AFC37B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.qc.uunet.ca (mail1.qc.uunet.ca [198.168.54.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4728943FDF; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:28:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarcat@espresso-com.com) Received: from xtanbul.studio.espresso-com.com ([216.94.147.57]) by mail1.qc.uunet.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JIQDsB007012; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:26:13 -0400 Received: from anarcat by xtanbul.studio.espresso-com.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19T46v-0000IJ-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:26:13 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:26:13 -0400 From: The Anarcat To: Paul Robinson Message-ID: <20030619182612.GB1074@xtanbul> Mail-Followup-To: The Anarcat , Paul Robinson , Samy Al Bahra , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-libh@freebsd.org References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: The Anarcat cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:28:56 -0000 On jeu jun 19, 2003 at 10:57:39 +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: > > libh's dead, folks. It's been dead for a good while now. I was just > > kicking it to make it look like we could tear something out of this > > monster. > > It's not *that* bad is it? :-) It's right now to the point I wouldn't consider writing more code for libh, but I'd reuse the ideas in a smaller, plugin-based, swig-foobar rewrite. So yes, libh is kinda bad, for me at least. And it involves a lot of C++ magic I don't really like. But, as always, if someone feels like picking the horse (wether it's alive or dead I'm never too sure), feel free! The code is there for anyone who dares to look. I've also put up a doxygen framework and there's a bit of design doc, so no, libh's still no so bad since so much people put so much time in it during its long existence. I apologize again for being so brutal to this project which had so high hopes and also to all the people who worked on it. Cheers, A. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 11:31:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773BD37B40B for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend2.aha.ru (bird.zenon.net [213.189.198.215]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441EC43FB1 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend2.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 192762888 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:31:08 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01235 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:32:59 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306191832.WAA01235@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: <200306190955.NAA00538@slt.oz> from Andrey Alekseyev at "Jun 19, 3 01:54:31 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:32:51 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:31:12 -0000 In case anyone interested I wrote a "paper" for my own reference on the FreeBSD NFS open() and attribute cache behavior. It can be found here: http://www.blackflag.ru/patches/nfs_attr.txt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 12:09:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E7F37B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C2D43FA3; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Received: from acm.org (big.x.kientzle.com [66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5JJ92tJ062645; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Message-ID: <3EF20ADE.9000904@acm.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:11:26 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EF1E7EC.3040908@acm.org> <20030619170742.GO20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: kientzle@acm.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:09:04 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:42:20AM -0700, Tim Kientzle wrote: >> * libtarfile works. ... > ... the ability to look inside, if not packages, > at least tar files in memory ... >> * Direct package extraction works. ... In particular, I think that the work I'm doing now should end the discussion about a "better" package format. In short, tar works quite well, thank you very much. Past performance issues were implementation problems, not format problems. > Hah. OK, item number two on the list is struck off. Cool. Looks like I'll be > writing a GUI then? :-) That would seem to be the hard part. I presume you've looked at SUSE's YAST, Debian's APT, and other such tools? >> * Requirements handling: I have some recursive requirements >> handling, but I'm not entirely happy with it. ... > > I'd be interested to know why ... What I have now works as follows: * Start reading the package, extract the packing list, parse it. * Identify any requirements, recursively install those. * Continue reading/installing this package. This has a big problem with network installs. In particular, the download gets stalled while the requirements are added. Over a slow connection, this could leave you with a stalled TCP connection for hours. Not good. One way to address this would be to separate "install-time" requirements from "run-time" requirements. The ports framework already has some concept of this (separates "build-time" from "run-time"), but it doesn't seem quite sufficient. I'm also looking at the 'INDEX' files that the package/ports folks have long been maintaining. By using that, I should be able to generate a full requirements tree up front, then install all of the necessary pieces in order without stalling. Recursive handling will still be needed for installing package files from disk, of course. >> * Locating packages. This will probably involve building >> a DB file in /var/db/pkg to record information about >> what packages are available from which ftp sites, etc. > > Instead of retrieving the binary when you do a pkg_add -r perhaps you could > end up grabbing a file that described where it could *really* be found I'm looking at a couple of approaches. One is to eliminate -r and instead have a simple list of package sources that get inspected. Debian's package management does something similar to this. For example, you might have an /etc/pkg.conf that specifies the following sources: . /usr/packages/distfiles /nfs-server/packages/distfiles ftp://ftp3.freebsd.org/some/path/packages-5.8-release/ ftp://ftp.joesfreebsdsite.org/some/path/packages-5.8-release/ cdrom:"FreeBSD 5.8 CDROM #2":/cdrom/packages By pulling the INDEX data into a DB file, you should be able to look up package locations very quickly indeed. Since the INDEX data includes requirements, you should be able to use this database to expand any package request into a complete list of packages to be installed. In particular, note that this should allow us to support the CD-ROMs more efficiently, by locating packages on particular CD-ROMs and then prompting the user to insert the correct CD. Note that this is simpler than having some form of "master redirect" file, since each repository only needs to track what it provides, not what other repositories might offer. Users can mix and match repositories as needed. > (thereby alleviating mirrors from carrying GBs of packages, just the > descriptions of where they are), including possible locations on disk, and > ultimately, ports ... nothing stopping you shipping this db as part of the > base install, Just having the list of sources is enough. From that, it's easy to pull the INDEX files and generate the full DB. The package tools need to be able to update the DB periodically in any case. > Shouldn't pkg_add be an abstraction of ports, with the advantage of grabbing > a pre-built binary if it's available, with a command line switch to force a > traditional cd /usr/ports/category/package; make install clean ??? No opinion on this one. Perhaps you could formulate a couple of scenarios in which it would be beneficial to be able to mix and match these two? Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 14:57:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F23637B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2a.lmco.com (mailgw2a.lmco.com [192.91.147.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A25A43FCB for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:57:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from koroush.saraf@lmco.com) Received: from emss01g01.ems.lmco.com ([129.197.181.54]) by mailgw2a.lmco.com (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5JLvKv27894 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.lmco.com by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #40643) id <0HGQ00O01Z8W8K@lmco.com> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BSDWIN2KKOROUSH ([129.197.244.4]) by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #40643) with SMTP id <0HGQ004VVZDIM0@lmco.com> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:22:05 -0700 From: Koroush Saraf To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <010301c336a8$d50f4820$04f4c581@BSDWIN2KKOROUSH> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Fw: MTU Path Discovery Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:57:22 -0000 PMTUD Black Hole ProblemPlease take a look at this possible code Problem? If not, please read the message below to find out the original problem! Is this a code problem in ip_input.c, This code is from FreeBSD 4.8 that I just installed on my computers. ip_forward ? It looks to me like case EMSGSIZE can never be reached. Is this breaking mtu path discovery responses ? ip_forward(struct mbuf *m, int srcrt, struct sockaddr_in *next_hop) switch (error) { case 0: /* forwarded, but need redirect */ /* type, code set above */ break; case ENETUNREACH: /* shouldn't happen, checked above */ case EHOSTUNREACH: case ENETDOWN: case EHOSTDOWN: default: type = ICMP_UNREACH; code = ICMP_UNREACH_HOST; break; case EMSGSIZE: type = ICMP_UNREACH; code = ICMP_UNREACH_NEEDFRAG; ----- Original Message ----- From: Saraf, Koroush (N-Norman SubSystems) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:32 AM Subject: PMTUD Black Hole Problem Hi All, I have the following network in the lab WINXP <---mtu1500--->FREEBSD4.4<---mtu1280(gif tunnel)--->FREEBSD4.4<---mtu1500--->WINXP The BSD computers are setup as gateway routers. As you might see from diagram above, the MTU of the link between the two BSD computers is 1280Bytes because of a tunnel. When I try to transfer a file between the XP endpoints, the PMTUD goes off by sending a 1514B packet to the other end with the Don't fragment bit set. However this packet never generates the ICMP unreachable message back to the XP box during Path MTU discovery. So that's why I have concluded that the BSD router is the black hole. Now I would like to know how to make my BSD router to participate in the MTU discovery. Changing the MTU of the windows computers is not an option for me. Also please note that the BSD computers only have one NIC interface, and the network is logically sperate but physically all connected to a switch, so playing with the MTU of the interface connecting the BSD computers is not an option either. I hope that this is a known problem and easy to fix and thanks for taking the time to respond. ~koroush _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 15:16:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7E037B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lily.ezo.net (nsc.ezo.net [68.23.200.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A031443F93 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from www.ezo.net (peony.ezo.net [68.23.200.11]) by lily.ezo.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5JMGCBj028225; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:16:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) From: "Jim Flowers" To: Koroush Saraf , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:16:38 -0500 Message-Id: <20030619220219.M48558@ezo.net> In-Reply-To: <010301c336a8$d50f4820$04f4c581@BSDWIN2KKOROUSH> References: <010301c336a8$d50f4820$04f4c581@BSDWIN2KKOROUSH> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 1.90 20030310 X-OriginatingIP: 24.93.231.122 (jflowers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Fw: MTU Path Discovery Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:16:10 -0000 I ran into something like this back in the days of SKIP VPNs and fbsd 3.5 to 4.5 and although I am not currently doing that, I can remember a couple of the issues. One was that I was also using natd via ipfw bypassing the tunnel and natd would copy the MTU (1500) before SKIP reduced it to 1346 for encapsulation and refused to listen to messages generated by ifconfig when changing the mtu (not in the code). Then when the response to mtu discovery probing began, the reduction was from 1500 instead of 1346 and the Windows NT machine just kept sending too-large packets with the DF flag set and the interface rejected them. The solution was to delay startup of natd until after the SKIP reduction completed. The second issue had to do with the response from Windows NTs which was not quite right and which I can't quite remember. This was at the time of NT4.0 with SP6 or so and there was a knowledge-base article on turning blackhole discovery off in certain instances to accomodate it. Hope that's some help. Good luck. -- Jim Flowers ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Koroush Saraf To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sent: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:22:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: MTU Path Discovery Problem > PMTUD Black Hole ProblemPlease take a look at this possible code > Problem? If not, please read the message below to find out the > original problem! > > Is this a code problem in ip_input.c, This code is from FreeBSD 4.8 > that I just installed on my computers. ip_forward ? It looks to me > like case EMSGSIZE can never be reached. Is this breaking mtu path > discovery responses ? > > ip_forward(struct mbuf *m, int srcrt, struct sockaddr_in *next_hop) > switch (error) { > > case 0: /* forwarded, but need > redirect */ /* type, code set above */ > break; > > case ENETUNREACH: /* shouldn't happen, checked > above */ case EHOSTUNREACH: case ENETDOWN: case > EHOSTDOWN: default: type = ICMP_UNREACH; > code = ICMP_UNREACH_HOST; break; > > case EMSGSIZE: > type = ICMP_UNREACH; > code = ICMP_UNREACH_NEEDFRAG; > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Saraf, Koroush (N-Norman SubSystems) > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:32 AM > Subject: PMTUD Black Hole Problem > > Hi All, > > I have the following network in the lab > > WINXP <---mtu1500--->FREEBSD4.4<---mtu1280(gif tunnel)--- > >FREEBSD4.4<---mtu1500--->WINXP > > The BSD computers are setup as gateway routers. As you might see > from diagram above, the MTU of the link between the two BSD > computers is 1280Bytes because of a tunnel. When I try to transfer > a file between the XP endpoints, the PMTUD goes off by sending a > 1514B packet to the other end with the Don't fragment bit set. > However this packet never generates the ICMP unreachable message > back to the XP box during Path MTU discovery. So that's why I have > concluded that the BSD router is the black hole. > > Now I would like to know how to make my BSD router to participate > in the MTU discovery. Changing the MTU of the windows computers is > not an option for me. Also please note that the BSD computers only > have one NIC interface, and the network is logically sperate but > physically all connected to a switch, so playing with the MTU of the > interface connecting the BSD computers is not an option either. > > I hope that this is a known problem and easy to fix and thanks for > taking the time to respond. ~koroush > _______________________________________________ freebsd- > questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To > unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ------- End of Original Message ------- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 15:46:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7593F37B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D925043FA3; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from edhall@screech.weirdnoise.com) Received: from screech.weirdnoise.com ([64.170.120.246]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HGR009KZ38PZT@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net>; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from screech.weirdnoise.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5JMiIDw050273; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:44:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:44:18 -0700 From: Ed Hall In-reply-to: Message from Greg 'groggy' Lehey "of Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:33:32 +0930." <20030619090332.GO93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Message-id: <200306192244.h5JMiIDw050273@screech.weirdnoise.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:46:04 -0000 "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" wrote: > On Thursday, 19 June 2003 at 1:29:37 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > >> On Wednesday, 18 June 2003 at 2:38:34 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > >>> Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > >>>> Yes, it reminded me of that thread, but wkt was actually referring to > >>>> System III, not 32V. > >>> > >>> I am also pretty certain that it was widely stated at the time > >>> that the UCB's license was the older Western Electric license, > >>> which is the same license which allowed Lyon's to publish his > >>> commentary, legally, including the kernel source code. > >> > >> I suppose you mean John Lions. > > > > Yes. I always spell his name wrong. > > > >> He got into a lot of trouble for that, and I doubt he would have > >> got away with it in the USA. > > > > Really? Can you point to the signed non-disclosure agreement > > that he violated in order to publish his commentary? The U.S. > > was not nearly as anal about this stuff until the 1980's. > > Things have got worse, yes. But certainly there was enough trouble in > the 70s. > > >>> While the university, proper, did obtain a more modern license, that > >>> license could not be retroactive to change the terms of the original > >>> license. > >> > >> Which university are you talking about? UCB or UNSW? > > > > UCB. > > But John was at UNSW. > > > You're in the area, aren't you? > > For some definition of area. UNSW is about 1400 km away. But I'll be > in the area in about 6 weeks time. > > > Why don't you ask to see the original license agreement that Lions > > was under at the time of his commentary's publication. > > I think I'll ask Greg Rose. He might have some interesting insights. > > Greg See: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/licenses.html for some links to a license from that era and some commentary on the Lions case by Dennis Ritchie. I think it clears up a few things... -Ed From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 15:46:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD3A37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2a.lmco.com (mailgw2a.lmco.com [192.91.147.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BD743FCB for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from artem.n.tkachenko@lmco.com) Received: from emss01g01.ems.lmco.com ([129.197.181.54]) by mailgw2a.lmco.com (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5JMkqv12326 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.lmco.com by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #40643) id <0HGQ00001Z94XE@lmco.com> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EMSS01I00.us.lmco.com ([129.197.181.70]) by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #40643) freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by EMSS01I00.us.lmco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:19 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:46:10 -0700 From: "Tkachenko, Artem N" To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Message-id: <573562C6FDA9564A8EEE66D899BC190B02935D92@EMSS01M10.us.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Networking problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:46:54 -0000 Hi, I posted similar question some time ago but I guess I misstated the problem. I will be more careful this time. Here is my situation: Node A <-----> LAN1 <-----> Node B <-----> LAN2 <-----> Node C Node A: OS: Win2K IP Address (to LAN1): 129.197.23.232 Node B: OS: FreeBSD 4.6 IP address (to LAN1): 129.197.244.10 IP address (to LAN2): 10.77.1.1 Node C: OS: FreeBSD 4.6 IP address (to LAN2) 10.77.2.1 What I am trying to accomplish is to set up Node A and Node B (and not Node C) to have Node A think that it is directly connected to LAN2 with an IP Address 10.77.1.2 So if Node A needs to send a packet to Node C, some program on Node A will encapsulate the packed and send it to Node B. Some other program on Node B will get the encapsulated packet, recognize that it came from Node A and that it needs to go somewhere else on LAN2, open the capsule and forward the original packet to the appropriate destination. And if Node C needs to send a packet to 10.77.1.2, the router on LAN2 will force it to send the packet to Node B. The Node B should then forward the packet to Node A. I tried to accomplish this in many ways but was not able to get exactly what I was looking for. I would highly appreciate if someone could tell me which program I need to use. ANY help if highly appreciated. I am really stuck... Thank you in advance. Sincerely Artem From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 16:22:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C3637B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786FD43FBF for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:22:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from quiz@rogers.com) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030619232155.TQUQ12647.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:21:55 -0400 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.10 (webedge20-101-191-20030113) From: Quiz To: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:21:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [127.0.0.1] using ID at Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:21:55 -0400 Message-Id: <20030619232155.TQUQ12647.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> Subject: X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:22:04 -0000 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 19:08:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0D337B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pgh.nepinc.com (pgh.nepinc.com [66.207.129.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8213443F75 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from durham@jcdurham.com) Received: from jimslaptop.home.jcdurham.com (18.gibs5.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.184.19]) by pgh.nepinc.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h5K28bW49750 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:08:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from durham@jcdurham.com) From: Jim Durham Organization: JC Durham Consulting To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:08:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306192208.34035.durham@jcdurham.com> Subject: Opensource.org gone? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: durham@jcdurham.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:08:35 -0000 After reading that really great article last night on opensource.org about the SCO thing , I tried to bring it up tonight and it looks like both their nameservers are down. nslookup returns unknow host/domain. Makes you wonder.... -- -Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 19:19:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8812E37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mooseriver.com (adsl-68-73-90-209.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net [68.73.90.209]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A6043F85 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:19:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: by mooseriver.com (Postfix, from userid 200) id 22F0FC9; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:19:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:19:46 -0500 From: Josef Grosch To: Jim Durham Message-ID: <20030620021946.GA10140@mooseriver.com> References: <200306192208.34035.durham@jcdurham.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306192208.34035.durham@jcdurham.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Opensource.org gone? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:19:49 -0000 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 10:08:34PM -0400, Jim Durham wrote: > After reading that really great article last night on opensource.org > about the SCO thing , I tried to bring it up tonight and it looks > like both their nameservers are down. > > nslookup returns unknow host/domain. > > Makes you wonder.... Strange both of the name servers for opensource.org can't resolve the domain. WTF? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 20:22:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A31537B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E6D643F75 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:22:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5K3MZDo038668; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:52:36 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Mike Silbersack Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:52:34 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <20030617011055.O8740@odysseus.silby.com> <200306171729.20775.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> In-Reply-To: <200306171729.20775.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306201252.34849.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -1.2 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:22:45 -0000 On Tuesday 17 June 2003 17:29, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > > ukphy0: on miibus1 > > > ukphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto > > > > Nothing out of the ordinary there, but perhaps we're messing up by _not_ > > recognizing a specific PHY and doing something special. Hmmmm... > > > > I have an idea, but since forced duplex works for you, I'm not inclined > > to spend time on it now. > > OK, I will get back to you with the results with a different switch in a > few days... Hmm, well all I could manage was a 5 port micro switch. It is made by Alloy but can autodetect crossover (MDX?). It works fine with the vr port doing autodetect, so I guess it's an interaction with the older switch. No idea how ammenable to software fixing that would be though :( -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 21:13:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D0237B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.pair.com (relay.pair.com [209.68.1.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8940A43F75 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:13:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 62842 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2003 04:13:35 -0000 Received: from niwun.pair.com (HELO localhost) (209.68.2.70) by relay.pair.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2003 04:13:35 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 209.68.2.70 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:13:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Daniel O'Connor In-Reply-To: <200306201252.34849.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> Message-ID: <20030620010232.T3614@odysseus.silby.com> References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <200306171729.20775.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <200306201252.34849.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:13:37 -0000 On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > Hmm, well all I could manage was a 5 port micro switch. It is made by Alloy > but can autodetect crossover (MDX?). It works fine with the vr port doing > autodetect, so I guess it's an interaction with the older switch. > > No idea how ammenable to software fixing that would be though :( > > -- > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer Actually, it may be possible to fix through software. The fact that your card is using "ukphy" means that we're using the generic PHY support, which may be doing something slightly wrong for whatever PHY is actually present on your NIC. If you look through the various *_phy drivers, you'll see that some have tiny little variations necessary for proper operation... However, since we've established that vr autodetects fine on some hubs, and that you can force the duplex and have it work ok, I don't think it's worth the time to track down the problem. (After all, it may not be solvable through software.) However, if you have an interest in learning about the internal workings of PHYs, I'll be glad to commit patches for you. :) Mike "Silby" Silbersack From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 21:38:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714DE37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C4BE43FAF for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:38:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5K4coDo040166; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:08:52 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Mike Silbersack Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:08:50 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200306161909.33474.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <200306201252.34849.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <20030620010232.T3614@odysseus.silby.com> In-Reply-To: <20030620010232.T3614@odysseus.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306201408.50186.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vr(4) duplex problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:38:59 -0000 On Friday 20 June 2003 15:43, Mike Silbersack wrote: > However, if you have an interest in learning about the internal workings > of PHYs, I'll be glad to commit patches for you. :) Hehe, fair enough! For the record -> vr0: port 0xe800-0xe8ff mem 0xdd006000-0xdd0060ff irq 11 at device 18.0 on pci0 using shared irq11. vr0: Ethernet address: 00:04:61:49:23:7c miibus1: on vr0 ukphy0: on miibus1 ukphy0: OUI 0x004063, model 0x0032, rev. 5 ukphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto I couldn't see anything resembling a PHY on the motherboard which is a bit annoying. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 21:51:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A685C37B401; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6BE43F3F; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:51:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-uinj93o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.164.120] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19TDru-0003Bi-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:51:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF29286.99CF131D@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:50:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> <20030619003054.GC93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF17471.36CC59B9@mindspring.com> <20030619090332.GO93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a488c700a1a31e57b4a5de1e3ec9343130548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:51:24 -0000 Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > Really? Can you point to the signed non-disclosure agreement > > that he violated in order to publish his commentary? The U.S. > > was not nearly as anal about this stuff until the 1980's. > > Things have got worse, yes. But certainly there was enough trouble in > the 70s. Not in the W.E. UNIX licenses, for the first few years. That was my point. Like the English policeman, they were alarmed when they thought about it, but about all they could contractually do was say "Stop! Or we'll ask you to 'Stop!' again!". > >>> While the university, proper, did obtain a more modern license, that > >>> license could not be retroactive to change the terms of the original > >>> license. > >> > >> Which university are you talking about? UCB or UNSW? > > > > UCB. > > But John was at UNSW. Not my fault that part was quoted out of context. 8-). This thread is about why ? = (*USLp) has no claim on the UCB code. > > You're in the area, aren't you? > > For some definition of area. UNSW is about 1400 km away. But I'll be > in the area in about 6 weeks time. > > > Why don't you ask to see the original license agreement that Lions > > was under at the time of his commentary's publication. > > I think I'll ask Greg Rose. He might have some interesting insights. That would most likely be interesting, too. 8-). -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 22:24:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10FF437B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CECA43FD7 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:24:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-uinj93o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.164.120] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19TEOK-0000p1-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:24:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF29A62.5E91D714@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:23:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrey Alekseyev References: <200306190955.NAA00538@slt.oz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4dc282962027a7df9edfc09282b7781e7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:24:58 -0000 Andrey Alekseyev wrote: > I've been trying lately to develop a solution for the problem with > open() that manifests itself in ESTALE error in the following situation: > > 1. NFS server: echo "1111" > file01 > 2. NFS client: cat file01 > 3. NFS server: echo "2222" > file02 && mv file02 file01 > 4. NFS client: cat file01 (either old file01 contents or ESTALE) > > My study shows that actually the problem appears to be in VOP_ACCESS() > which is called from vn_open(). If nfs_access() decides to "go to the wire" > in #4, it then uses a cached file handle which is indeed stale. Thus, > open() eventually fails with ESTALE too (ESTALE comes from underlying > nfs_request()). The real problem here is that you know you did an operation on the file which would break the name/nfsnode relationship, but did not flush the cached name and nfsnode data. A more correct solution would resync the nfsnode. The main problem with your solution is that it doesn't work in the case that you don't know the name of the remote file (in which case, all you really have is a stale file handle, with no way to unstale it). I think this is a corner case that's probably not really very interesting to solve. Now if you remembered the rename, and applied your knowledge of the rename semantics to the problem, you could replace the handle in the local nfsnode for the file. This would not be as expensive as traversing all of the nfsnodes, since you could use the same hash that's used to translate a fh to a vp to get the vp. This would fix a lot more cases than the single failure you are fixing. In general, though, you can't fix *any* of the cases without introducing a vnode alias for an nfsnode that may have a local alias already: there's no way to handle the hash collision in that case, nor would you want to, since there's no way to deal with the different vnodes that point to the different nfsnodes, and have their own vmobject_t's: no matter how you look at it, you can replace the vnode address in the open file(s) that point to it, so you have to ESTALE. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 22:29:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB68C37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D98C43F85 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:29:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-uinj93o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.164.120] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19TESp-0001Ry-00; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:29:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF29B78.11DF3FA4@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:28:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Shenton References: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> <87k7bi86ve.fsf@PECTOPAH.shenton.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4dc282962027a7df9fe81aedaeb138aa0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Michael Bushkov Subject: Re: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:29:49 -0000 Chris Shenton wrote: > Michael Bushkov writes: > > Can anyone tell me if there is an implementation of nscd for FreeBSD? > > For DNS information, have a look at "dnscache" from the djbdns suite. > Small, secure, fast. > > http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html > http://www.lifewithdjbdns.org/ > > If you're trying to cache other data, sorry to bother you. We are not trying to cache; if any caching happens, it'll be a side benefit. What we are trying to do is come up with a model that: 1) Moves the dynamically loaded NSS modules out of the program address space, and onto the other end of a communications channel, so that statically linked programs can benefit from NSS modules that are not statically compiled into them. 2) Allow multiple outstanding simultaneous requests on the communications channel from a given program, so as to provide a cheap and easy way to implement the support for the gethostaddr_r() and similar functions, which cannot otherwise be easily made thread safe, without consuming a socker per thread calling them. If this yields caching as well, that's just gravy, not the goal. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 22:58:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172F237B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.aaanet.ru (smtp.aaanet.ru [80.80.111.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8B343F75 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:58:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bushman@rsu.ru) Received: from [80.80.119.234] (helo=p75) by smtp.aaanet.ru with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19TEub-0006BB-Rs; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:58:16 +0400 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:58:11 +0400 From: Michael Bushkov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62i) Organization: RSU X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <165845726.20030620095811@rsu.ru> To: Terry Lambert In-Reply-To: <3EF29B78.11DF3FA4@mindspring.com> References: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> <87k7bi86ve.fsf@PECTOPAH.shenton.org> <3EF29B78.11DF3FA4@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michael Bushkov List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:58:24 -0000 Hello Terry, Friday, June 20, 2003, 9:28:24 AM, you wrote: TL> Chris Shenton wrote: >> Michael Bushkov writes: >> > Can anyone tell me if there is an implementation of nscd for FreeBSD? >> >> For DNS information, have a look at "dnscache" from the djbdns suite. >> Small, secure, fast. >> >> http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html >> http://www.lifewithdjbdns.org/ >> >> If you're trying to cache other data, sorry to bother you. TL> We are not trying to cache; if any caching happens, it'll be TL> a side benefit. What we are trying to do is come up with a TL> model that: TL> 1) Moves the dynamically loaded NSS modules out of the TL> program address space, and onto the other end of a TL> communications channel, so that statically linked TL> programs can benefit from NSS modules that are not TL> statically compiled into them. TL> 2) Allow multiple outstanding simultaneous requests on TL> the communications channel from a given program, so TL> as to provide a cheap and easy way to implement the TL> support for the gethostaddr_r() and similar functions, TL> which cannot otherwise be easily made thread safe, TL> without consuming a socker per thread calling them. TL> If this yields caching as well, that's just gravy, not the goal. TL> -- Terry Ok, so if we do a daemon and call all nss_functions from it - will it help? We'll solve all the problems with statically/dinmically linked programs and we'll be able to make some caching, by the way. We've done such work. As a start, we have implemented nss_files module, which worked wit a special NSSD daemon. Libc communicated with them using sockets. That decision worked quite fast and was very stable. If we port nss_ldap (by PADL.com) and add some caching procedures, we'll have almost a lookupd analog. Michael A. Bushkov Computer Center of Rostov State University mailto:bushman@rsu.ru From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 23:18:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F5E37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (217-ip-163.nccn.net [209.79.217.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C8843F93 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K6HaM7058935; Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:17:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200306200617.h5K6HaM7058935@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:17:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: uitm@blackflag.ru In-Reply-To: <200306190955.NAA00538@slt.oz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:18:01 -0000 On 19 Jun, Andrey Alekseyev wrote: > Hello, > > I've been trying lately to develop a solution for the problem with > open() that manifests itself in ESTALE error in the following situation: > > 1. NFS server: echo "1111" > file01 > 2. NFS client: cat file01 > 3. NFS server: echo "2222" > file02 && mv file02 file01 > 4. NFS client: cat file01 (either old file01 contents or ESTALE) > > My study shows that actually the problem appears to be in VOP_ACCESS() > which is called from vn_open(). If nfs_access() decides to "go to the wire" > in #4, it then uses a cached file handle which is indeed stale. Thus, > open() eventually fails with ESTALE too (ESTALE comes from underlying > nfs_request()). > > I understand all the fundamental NFS-related integrity problems, but not > this one :) That is, I see no reason for open() to fail to open a file for > reading or writing if the system knows the problem is it's own. Why not > just do another lookup and try obtain a valid file handle? > > I was playing with different parts of the kernel while "fixing" this for > myself. However, I believe, the simpliest patch would be for > vfs_syscalls.c:open() (I've also made a working patch against vn_open(), > though). > > Could anyone please be so kind to comment this issue? > > TIA > > --- kern/vfs_syscalls.c.orig Thu Jun 19 13:22:50 2003 > +++ kern/vfs_syscalls.c Thu Jun 19 13:29:11 2003 > @@ -1008,6 +1008,7 @@ > int type, indx, error; > struct flock lf; > struct nameidata nd; > + int stale = 0; > > oflags = SCARG(uap, flags); > if ((oflags & O_ACCMODE) == O_ACCMODE) > @@ -1025,8 +1026,15 @@ > * the descriptor while we are blocked in vn_open() > */ > fhold(fp); > +again: > error = vn_open(&nd, flags, cmode); > if (error) { > + /* > + * if the underlying filesystem returns ESTALE > + * we must have used a cached file handle. > + */ > + if (error == ESTALE && stale++ == 0) > + goto again; > /* > * release our own reference > */ I can't get very enthusiastic about changing the file system independent code to fix a deficiency in the NFS implementation. If the name of the file are you attempting to open is relative to your current working directory, and your current working directory is nuked on the server, vn_open will return ESTALE, and your patch above will loop forever. NFS really doesn't work very well if modifications are make by both a client and the server, or by multiple clients. Solaris attempts to compensate with a mount option: noac Suppress data and attribute caching. The data caching that is suppressed is the write-behind. The local page cache is still maintained, but data copied into it is immediately written to the server. If the rename on the server was done within the attribute validity time on the client, vn_open() will succeed even without your patch, but you may encounter the ESTALE error when you actually try to read or write the file. Unless you have some sort of locking protocol or other way of synchronizing this sequence of operations on the client and server, the server could do the rename while the client has the file open, after which some I/O operation on the client will encounter ESTALE. If the problem is that open() is failing a long time after the server did the rename, then the best solution may be for the client to time out file handles more aggressively. If the vnode on the client is closed, the file handle could be timed out after acregmin/acregmax or acdirmin/acdirmax, or a new handle timeout parameter. This may decrease performance, but nothing is free ... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 00:03:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D91137B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend3.aha.ru (elk.zenon.net [213.189.198.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6129843F93 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend3.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 7959220; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:03:48 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00432; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:05:29 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306200705.LAA00432@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: <3EF29A62.5E91D714@mindspring.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jun 19, 3 10:23:46 pm" To: tlambert2@mindspring.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:05:28 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:03:52 -0000 Terry, Thanks much for you comments, but see below. > The real problem here is that you know you did an operation > on the file which would break the name/nfsnode relationship, > but did not flush the cached name and nfsnode data. nfs_request() actually calls cache_purge() on ESTALE, and vn_open() frees vnode with vput() if a lookup was successful but there were an error from the underlying filesystem (like ESTALE resulting from nfs_request() which is eventually called from VOP_ACCESS or VOP_OPEN). > A more correct solution would resync the nfsnode. I think this is exactly what happens :) Actually, I believe, I'm just getting another namecache entry with another vnode/nfsnode/file handle. > The main problem with your solution is that it doesn't work > in the case that you don't know the name of the remote file > (in which case, all you really have is a stale file handle, > with no way to unstale it). I think, in this case (if the file was rm'd on the server), I'll just get ENOENT from the second vn_open() attempt, which would be more than appropriate. A real drawback is that for a stale "current" directory it'll take another lookup to detect "true" ESTALE. > This would fix a lot more cases than the single failure you > are fixing. Actually, as I said, I played with different parts of the code to solve this (including, nfs_open(), nfs_access(), nfs_lookup() and vn_open()) only to find the previously mentioned solution to be the simpliest and most suitable for all situations (for me!) :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 00:16:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1CB37B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend3.aha.ru (elk.zenon.net [213.189.198.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC3243F75; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:16:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend3.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 7962419; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:16:33 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00471; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:18:26 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306200718.LAA00471@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: <200306200617.h5K6HaM7058935@gw.catspoiler.org> from Don Lewis at "Jun 19, 3 11:17:36 pm" To: truckman@FreeBSD.org (Don Lewis) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:18:24 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:16:36 -0000 Don, > I can't get very enthusiastic about changing the file system independent > code to fix a deficiency in the NFS implementation. You're right. But it appears to be hard and inefficient to fix NFS for this (I tried, though). It will certainly require to pass names below VFS. On the other hand, there are NFS-related functions in the VFS already. See vfs_syscalls.c:getfh(), fhopen() and similar functions. There are things related to NFS server in the UFS/FFS code too. So, I finally decided that my "fix" doesn't do much harm to the above mentioned concept :) > current working directory, and your current working directory is nuked > on the server, vn_open will return ESTALE, and your patch above will > loop forever. It won't loop forever :) The "stale" integer is in there exactly for that purpose :) In case of a stale current directory, open() will still return ESTALE. In case of a file that was rm'd from the server, I believe it'll return something different. > If the rename on the server was done within the attribute validity time > on the client, vn_open() will succeed even without your patch, but you > may encounter the ESTALE error when you actually try to read or write > the file. Sure! But open() will succeed and probably you'll even be lucky to get file contents from the cache. But that's another story, related to attributes tuning (I have another patch for that:) However, even with the existing FreeBSD NFS attribute cache behaviour, it's ok for me. > server could do the rename while the client has the file open, after > which some I/O operation on the client will encounter ESTALE. Sure. That's perfectly understood. I'm not trying to solve all the NFS inefficiencies related to heavily shared files. > acdirmin/acdirmax, or a new handle timeout parameter. This may decrease > performance, but nothing is free ... In the normal situation, namecache entry+vnode+nfsnode+file handle may stay cached for a really long time (until re-used? deleted or renamed on the *client*). Expiring file handles (a new mechanism?) means much the same to me as simply obtaining a new name cache entry+other data on ESTALE :) I may be wrong, though. Anyway, thanks for the comments. See also: http://www.blackflag.ru/patches/nfs_attr.txt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 01:03:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70DB37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B3043FA3 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:03:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-uinj93o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.164.120] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19TGrb-0002dg-00; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:03:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF2BF54.9CA3604B@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:01:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Bushkov References: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> <3EF29B78.11DF3FA4@mindspring.com> <165845726.20030620095811@rsu.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a46ebfc45fae49656008db07585284f7ce3ca473d225a0f487350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:03:25 -0000 Michael Bushkov wrote: > Hello Terry, Hello back, [ ... ] > Ok, so if we do a daemon and call all nss_functions from it - will it > help? We'll solve all the problems with statically/dinmically linked > programs and we'll be able to make some caching, by > the way. > > We've done such work. As a start, we have implemented nss_files module, which > worked wit a special NSSD daemon. Libc communicated with them using > sockets. That decision worked quite fast and was very stable. If we > port nss_ldap (by PADL.com) and add some caching procedures, we'll > have almost a lookupd analog. Quite cool! NB: If you are strict NSS, you might be able to use the nss_ldap from FreeBSD without modification. I think this is ideal, so long as you can have multiple concurrent requests (e.g. there is at least a 64bit tag that gets given with the request and returned with the response, which can be a thread ID or other opaque data) on the same connection. This would permit the creation of *_r functions for libc with a fixed overhead which does not increase per thread per request. I think you would need to have someone work on the actual libc code to go with the daemon, as a proof of implementation, but I think it's probably exactly what the doctor ordered! I love that people do real research on things like this! 8-). Is your code under a particular license, and are there some proof of concept *_r routines, or do you need some volunteers to help you work on anything? What would help you move forward on this? Regards, -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 01:07:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 068C337B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (217-ip-163.nccn.net [209.79.217.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7606F43FA3 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:07:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5K870M7059110; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:07:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200306200807.h5K870M7059110@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:07:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: uitm@blackflag.ru In-Reply-To: <200306200718.LAA00471@slt.oz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:07:13 -0000 On 20 Jun, Andrey Alekseyev wrote: > In the normal situation, namecache entry+vnode+nfsnode+file handle may > stay cached for a really long time (until re-used? deleted or renamed > on the *client*). Expiring file handles (a new mechanism?) means much the > same to me as simply obtaining a new name cache entry+other data > on ESTALE :) I may be wrong, though. One case where there is a difference between timing out old file handles and just invalidating them on ESTALE: client% cmd1 > file1; cmd2 > file2 server% mv file1 tmpfile; mv file2 file1; mv tmpfile file1 wait an hour client% cat /dev/null > file1 If file handles are cached indefinitely, and the client didn't recycle the vnode for file1, which file on the server got truncated? Since neither file was deleted on the server, you can't rely on ESTALE to detect this situation. Question: does the timeout of the directory attributes cause open() do do an NFS lookup on the file, or does open() just find the vnode in the cache and use its cached handle? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 02:07:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B595437B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FCF343F3F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:07:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-uinj93o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.164.120] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19THrk-0001Fg-00; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:07:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF2CDF0.6014ACB6@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:03:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrey Alekseyev References: <200306200705.LAA00432@slt.oz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a44034bf79371c0c1e247944e9f4ddb226350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:07:33 -0000 Andrey Alekseyev wrote: > Terry, > > Thanks much for you comments, but see below. > > > The real problem here is that you know you did an operation > > on the file which would break the name/nfsnode relationship, > > but did not flush the cached name and nfsnode data. > > nfs_request() actually calls cache_purge() on ESTALE, and vn_open() > frees vnode with vput() if a lookup was successful but there were > an error from the underlying filesystem (like ESTALE resulting from > nfs_request() which is eventually called from VOP_ACCESS or VOP_OPEN). The place to correct this is probably the underlying FS. I'd argue that getting ESTALE is a poke with a sharp stick that makes this more likely to happen. ;^). > > A more correct solution would resync the nfsnode. > > I think this is exactly what happens :) Actually, I believe, I'm just > getting another namecache entry with another vnode/nfsnode/file handle. You can't have this for other reasons; specifically, if you have the file open at th time of the rename, and it becomes a ".#nfs..." file (or whatever) on the server. > > The main problem with your solution is that it doesn't work > > in the case that you don't know the name of the remote file > > (in which case, all you really have is a stale file handle, > > with no way to unstale it). > > I think, in this case (if the file was rm'd on the server), I'll just > get ENOENT from the second vn_open() attempt, which would be more > than appropriate. A real drawback is that for a stale "current" > directory it'll take another lookup to detect "true" ESTALE. This is more a problem is the ESTALE handling. In the case where you are doing a lookup, and get an ESTALE, it's probably correct to translateit based on the semantics you are expecting in the upper layer. The problem here is that a given VOP can be called from multiple system call implementations, and a given system call implementation can call multiple VOPs to implement its functionality. This means that you'd have to model the system call later state machine within the filesystem itselt in order to return the "expected" error for every possible case. This isn't a reasonable thing to expect. > > This would fix a lot more cases than the single failure you > > are fixing. > > Actually, as I said, I played with different parts of the code to solve > this (including, nfs_open(), nfs_access(), nfs_lookup() and vn_open()) > only to find the previously mentioned solution to be the simpliest and > most suitable for all situations (for me!) :) Don Lewis has a good posting in response to you; you will likely have read it before you read this response, so fee free to not respond directly to this point. Don points out that Solaris tries to fix this via the "noac" mount option for client NFS. What his quote: noac Suppress data and attribute caching. The data caching that is suppressed is the write-behind. The local page cache is still maintained, but data copied into it is immediately written to the server. hints at, but doesn't come right out and say, is that the cache is flushed on write operations ("the data caching that is suppressed is write-behind"). What this means practically, in terms of the implementation of the NFS client code, is that everywhere there is a client triggered change of state for metadata in the server that could result in an ESTALE, the client cached information is flushed out and has to be reacquired. If this were happening in the NFS client today, then your rename would not end up giving you an ESTALE, because the stale data would have been discarded. I'd also like to point out the following case: { A, B } fd1 open on B rename B -> C rename A -> B In this case, the FH in question would still work for B. What would happen if it were: { A, B, C } fd1 open on B fd2 open on C rename B -> C rename A -> B ? With your patch, I think we would potentially convert fd2 to point to B whien it really *should* be "ESTALE", which is wrong (think in terms of 2 or more clients doing the operations). -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 02:14:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C649837B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5D243FA3; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:14:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-uinj93o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.164.120] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19THyf-0001sm-00; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:14:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF2CF89.3E5542F5@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:10:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Don Lewis References: <200306200617.h5K6HaM7058935@gw.catspoiler.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a44034bf79371c0c1e01d27dd4261b1767350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: uitm@blackflag.ru Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:14:40 -0000 Don Lewis wrote: > > +again: > > error = vn_open(&nd, flags, cmode); > > if (error) { > > + /* > > + * if the underlying filesystem returns ESTALE > > + * we must have used a cached file handle. > > + */ > > + if (error == ESTALE && stale++ == 0) > > + goto again; > > /* > > * release our own reference > > */ [ ... ] > If the name of the file are you attempting to open is relative to your > current working directory, and your current working directory is nuked > on the server, vn_open will return ESTALE, and your patch above will > loop forever. No, actually he thought of that (I read the code this way the first time too, but was lucky enough to read it through a couple of times while looking at the NFS sources in another window, so I caught myself before sending anything). Specifically, see the underline part of: > > + if (error == ESTALE && stale++ == 0) --------------- ...he exits it after retrying it fails, and falls into the standard ESTALE return case. If this gets committed (which I think it shouldn't because I can see a genuinely bad handle getting converted to a good one in a couple of cases), that line should probably be rewritten to be more obvious (e.g. move the "stale++" before the "if" statment and adjust the compare to compensate for the difference so no one else reads it the way we did). Your other comments are good, though (see other post). -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 02:47:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C5437B411; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A963C43F75; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19TIUU-0003bl-G9; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:47:30 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:47:30 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Tim Kientzle Message-ID: <20030620094730.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EF1E7EC.3040908@acm.org> <20030619170742.GO20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EF20ADE.9000904@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF20ADE.9000904@acm.org> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:47:21 -0000 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 12:11:26PM -0700, Tim Kientzle wrote: > That would seem to be the hard part. I presume you've > looked at SUSE's YAST, Debian's APT, and other such tools? *nods* - nice basis, but not... well... you know. > What I have now works as follows: > * Start reading the package, extract the packing list, parse it. > * Identify any requirements, recursively install those. > * Continue reading/installing this package. To clarfiy your meaning of recursiveness in this context (I can think of another way of doing it "recursively" and I don't have time to peek at code right now), if I want to install package A which requires B and C, B requires D and E, and D requires F, your installer would go Start A -> I need B -> Start B -> I need D -> Start D -> I need F -> Install F -> Install D -> I need E -> Install E -> Install B -> Install C > This has a big problem with network installs. In particular, > the download gets stalled while the requirements are added. > Over a slow connection, this could leave you with a stalled > TCP connection for hours. Not good. In the chain above, if F isn't available for some reason, you have A, B and D all half installed on your machine waiting for a 32Kb library on an un-mirrored FTP server in bulgaria... hmmm... > One way to address this would be to separate "install-time" > requirements from "run-time" requirements. The ports framework > already has some concept of this (separates "build-time" from > "run-time"), but it doesn't seem quite sufficient. If you need it at run time, surely it make sense to grab it at build time? I'm not sure I can see the benefit of seperating it out - you're just going to create a sense of not knowing whether your application is ready to go or not because it's "installed" but doesn't have the kit it needs around it to make it actually *work*.... hmmmm... > I'm looking at a couple of approaches. One is to eliminate -r and instead > have a simple list of package sources that get inspected. Debian's package > management does something similar to this. For example, you might have > an /etc/pkg.conf that specifies the following sources: > . > /usr/packages/distfiles > /nfs-server/packages/distfiles > ftp://ftp3.freebsd.org/some/path/packages-5.8-release/ > ftp://ftp.joesfreebsdsite.org/some/path/packages-5.8-release/ > cdrom:"FreeBSD 5.8 CDROM #2":/cdrom/packages Yup, that's what I was thinking, but you would have such a file for each package, thereby meaning packages can live all over the place. In addition, you wouldn't need that file on the local machine, and for backward compatability, the -r switch grabs a file with that info off of the mirrors, the same way the actual packages are now. It means that in 3-4 years when people are no longer trying to do package management with the current stuff, the mirrors *could* reclaim some disk space. This is likely to be an issue if we want to try and get as much stuff out there as possible run up as pkg's. > installed. In particular, note that this should allow us to support > the CD-ROMs more efficiently, by locating packages on particular CD-ROMs > and then prompting the user to insert the correct CD. There is a minor issue here, around the way I'm planning on helping out the OEM/release engineering stuff as part of the installer effort, in that the package might not be on "FreeBSD 5.8 CDROM #2" but rather on "Dell OEM FreeBSD 6.2 Disk 1", but that's my problem. The more I think about it, the less of an issue it becomes, as I've just written some code in my head around building the release disks that sorts some of this out, but it's an extra req. > Note that this is simpler than having some form of "master redirect" > file, since each repository only needs to track what it provides, > not what other repositories might offer. Users can mix and match > repositories as needed. I'm thinking about backward compatability on the command line for -r that grabs the "master re-direct" file in the format above.. > No opinion on this one. Perhaps you could formulate a couple of > scenarios in which it would be beneficial to be able to mix and > match these two? Where the port exists, but a pre-built binary isn't available, or where somebody wants easy install with his own configure options. So, in your file above, but where you're explicitly discussing a specific package rather than packages in general, you could have a line, for example: ports:/usr/ports/misc/screen:--prefix=/usr/local with command line switches to force the ports option, pass extra args to configure, etc. This means as and administrator you have one 'place' to look after third-party code, you get the advantage of being able to wrap ports into the /var/db/pkg DB, and if the binaries don't exist you can go back to building from scratch. In fact, with a bit more work, you could write a switch to make a package that can then go onto a mirror with nothing more than a command-line switch, based on the port. It also means that if somebody wants to port their application to FreeBSD and distribute a pre-built binary rather than distribute source, they can locally follow the porter's handbook, build their own port, turn it into a package, and then go out and sell it in stores - i.e. it encourages commercial involvement in FreeBSD which is no bad thing. You also suddenly make pkg_add able to handle not only pre-built binaries but grabs all the effort of the ports guys as well. Anyway, I think we're both talking about the same thing here, except you're thinking of a main pkg.conf file, whereas I'm thinking of a DB on disk, or retrieved over the network for EACH PACKAGE, with the benefit of bringing ports in under the package management tree as a fall-back if the binary isn't there, and as an excellent way of helping commercial entities start selling apps for FreeBSD. Just some ideas... -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 02:50:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4963337B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A1743FCB; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:50:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19TIXj-0003cF-6c; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:50:51 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:50:51 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: The Anarcat , Samy Al Bahra , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030620095051.GQ20204@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030619182612.GB1074@xtanbul> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030619182612.GB1074@xtanbul> Sender: Paul Robinson Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:50:42 -0000 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 02:26:13PM -0400, The Anarcat wrote: > It's right now to the point I wouldn't consider writing more code for > libh, but I'd reuse the ideas in a smaller, plugin-based, swig-foobar > rewrite. I went back and re-read the notes on the website about libh's design yesterday, first time in a while. It has some good ideas. Definitely lots to pick up on. > So yes, libh is kinda bad, for me at least. And it involves a lot of > C++ magic I don't really like. *shudders*. I was sorting out my flat last night getting ready to move, and I found my old undergrad copy of the second edition K&R book. I hugged it. C++ is for girls. :-) > But, as always, if someone feels like picking the horse (wether it's > alive or dead I'm never too sure), feel free! The code is there for > anyone who dares to look. I've also put up a doxygen framework and > there's a bit of design doc, so no, libh's still no so bad since so > much people put so much time in it during its long existence. Cool. > I apologize again for being so brutal to this project which had so > high hopes and also to all the people who worked on it. It's understandable. Think of it this way - at least the next-gen installer is now likely to get a better name, whoever it is that writes it. :-) -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 03:11:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E21837B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5308E43F85; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:11:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19TIsC-0003fh-Uc; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:12:00 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:12:00 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20030620101200.GA14047@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <3EEF00E4.9000908@freebsd.mheller.org> <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> <20030619003054.GC93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF17471.36CC59B9@mindspring.com> <20030619090332.GO93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF29286.99CF131D@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF29286.99CF131D@mindspring.com> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: English Police Officers (was Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:11:51 -0000 On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:50:14PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Like the English policeman, they were alarmed > when they thought about it, but about all they could contractually > do was say "Stop! Or we'll ask you to 'Stop!' again!". Sorry to go off on a tangent (follow-up set to -chat), but as somebody known to be English, I have to defend (if that's the right word) the nastiness of my local law enfocement officers. Although they mostly don't carry guns, they do carry big sticks, pepper spray and handcuffs and there are riot police on every division quite happy to give you a damned good thrashing. In fact the main problem we have is that they seem to like going around killing people, including one guy who they shot because he had a chair leg in a bag which they had been "reliably informed" was a shotgun, and it would seem they don't care much about finding the killers of anybody shot whose skin colour is not... shall we say.. "pale"? Oh, and in Manchester, some specially trained police have been walking around with MP5 machine guns, on and off, for at least the last 10 years that I remember. Something to do with a couple of Irish lads who keep on trying to kill loads of civilians in offices and shopping malls. But let's not get into that (5,000 dead so far), the point is, they have the same guns the British Army carry. And they're scary. So, although I'd love English life to go back to the village bobby on his bicycle chasing after a villain in a black and white stripy shirt and a bag over his shoulder with "SWAG" written on it, the policeman shouting "stop you rotter! stop or I'll get jolly angry!", I'm afraid those days are gone. In Manchester at least, if you're a naughty boy and you get caught, it's 16/1 you're going to spend time in hospital straight away, and about 5/1 you won't make it out of prison without having a go at killing yourself. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 04:38:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439AE37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genua.rfc-networks.ie (genua.rfc-networks.ie [62.77.182.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A6243FBF for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:38:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie) Received: from tear.domain (unknown [10.0.1.254]) by genua.rfc-networks.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5447454897 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:38:08 +0100 (IST) Received: by tear.domain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CCE9221150; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:38:07 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:38:07 +0000 From: Philip Reynolds To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030620113807.GA78646@rfc-networks.ie> References: <573562C6FDA9564A8EEE66D899BC190B02935D92@EMSS01M10.us.lmco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <573562C6FDA9564A8EEE66D899BC190B02935D92@EMSS01M10.us.lmco.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE X-URL: http://www.rfc-networks.ie Subject: Re: Networking problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:38:11 -0000 "Tkachenko, Artem N" 44 lines of wisdom includ= ed: > What I am trying to accomplish is to set up Node A and Node B (and not No= de > C) to have Node A think that it is directly connected to LAN2 with an IP > Address 10.77.1.2 >=20 > So if Node A needs to send a packet to Node C, some program on Node A will > encapsulate the packed and send it to Node B. Some other program on Node B > will get the encapsulated packet, recognize that it came from Node A and > that it needs to go somewhere else on LAN2, open the capsule and forward = the > original packet to the appropriate destination. >=20 > And if Node C needs to send a packet to 10.77.1.2, the router on LAN2 will > force it to send the packet to Node B. The Node B should then forward the > packet to Node A. I think you're looking for NAT, which will translate the appropiate addresses. Have a google for some information. Ref: natd(8), ipfw(8) --=20 Philip Reynolds | RFC Networks Ltd. philip.reynolds@rfc-networks.ie | +353 (0)1 8832063 http://people.rfc-networks.ie/~phil | www.rfc-networks.ie From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 05:18:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF38E37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9AA943F85 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:18:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:18:21 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: Josef Grosch Message-ID: <20030620121821.GD86611@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <200306192208.34035.durham@jcdurham.com> <20030620021946.GA10140@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="2JFBq9zoW8cOFH7v" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030620021946.GA10140@mooseriver.com> X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Jim Durham Subject: Re: Opensource.org gone? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:18:25 -0000 --2JFBq9zoW8cOFH7v Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Josef Grosch wrote on Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:19:46PM -0500: > On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 10:08:34PM -0400, Jim Durham wrote: > > After reading that really great article last night on opensource.org=20 > > about the SCO thing , I tried to bring it up tonight and it looks=20 > > like both their nameservers are down. [..] > Strange both of the name servers for opensource.org can't resolve the > domain. WTF?=20 I've set up a mirror of that page on http://www.leo.org/misc/sco-vs-ibm.html feel free to distribute that link. However, if the original site is online again, I will shut it down. Best regards, Daniel --=20 IRCnet: Mr-Spock - Der Zweite Platz ist Dreck - Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ --2JFBq9zoW8cOFH7v Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIXgAYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIXcTCCF20CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC FUAwggbMMIIFtKADAgECAgIVezANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAP BgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVu Y2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJH LUJlbnV0emVyLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDMwNTIwMTIz MTQyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBqzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVu MSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZ RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEUMBIGA1UEAxMLRGFuaWVsIExhbmcxJDAiBgkq hkiG9w0BCQEWFWRhbmllbC5sYW5nQGluLnR1bS5kZTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAw 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mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4191737B404 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de [193.174.154.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A6643FB1 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brandt@fokus.fraunhofer.de) Received: from beagle (beagle [193.175.132.100])h5KCOHQ22896 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:24:17 +0200 (MEST) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:24:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Harti Brandt To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030620142320.I10356@beagle.fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: cvsup.freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:24:20 -0000 What happend to this host? I cannot ping it more than 10 hours. harti -- harti brandt, http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private brandt@fokus.fraunhofer.de, harti@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 06:21:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01EBB37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amun.isnic.is (amun.isnic.is [193.4.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B7643FA3 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:21:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: from amun.isnic.is (oli@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/isnic) with ESMTP id h5KDLAiu083669; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:21:10 GMT (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: (from oli@localhost) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5KDLApJ083668; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:21:10 GMT (envelope-from oli) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:21:09 +0000 From: Olafur Osvaldsson To: Harti Brandt Message-ID: <20030620132109.GH66199@isnic.is> References: <20030620142320.I10356@beagle.fokus.fraunhofer.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030620142320.I10356@beagle.fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=6.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55-isnic X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55-isnic (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvsup.freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:21:19 -0000 Harti, Just try one of the other mirrors. cvsup[1-7]?.de.freebsd.org cvsup[1-9]?.freebsd.org /Oli On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Harti Brandt wrote: > > What happend to this host? I cannot ping it more than 10 hours. > > harti > -- > harti brandt, > http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private > brandt@fokus.fraunhofer.de, harti@freebsd.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Olafur Osvaldsson Systems Administrator Internet a Islandi hf. Tel: +354 525-5291 Email: oli@isnic.is From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 06:34:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA4037B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB3843F93 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:34:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 77A992ED435; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:34:40 -0700 From: Bill Fumerola To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030620133440.GA56404@elvis.mu.org> References: <20030620142320.I10356@beagle.fokus.fraunhofer.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030620142320.I10356@beagle.fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-MUORG-20030411 i386 Subject: Re: cvsup.freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bill Fumerola List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:34:41 -0000 [ this is really not hackers@ material ] On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 02:24:17PM +0200, Harti Brandt wrote: > > What happend to this host? I cannot ping it more than 10 hours. although verio is advertising 198.104.0.0/16, they are blackholing it. 7 xe-0-2-0.r20.snjsca04.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.2.72) 2.173 ms 4.281 ms 2.317 ms 8 * * * 6 verio-level3-oc12.Chicago1.Level3.net (209.0.227.66) 6.628 ms 7.754 ms 6.935 ms 7 * * 6 ge-6-1-0.r06.plalca01.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.3.53) 15.934 ms 17.592 ms 16.74 ms 7 * * that being said: ns0 06:13:48 /etc/namedb/primary $ grep -c '^cvsup[0-9]' freebsd.org 18 try a mirror. try a local .de mirror. there is nothing 'special' about cvsup.freebsd.org relative to the other public cvsup servers. -- - bill fumerola / fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org / billf@mu.org ps. before anyone starts the quarterly "round robin dns" thread, please read the extensive archives on the topic. thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 06:43:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D17037B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.aaanet.ru (smtp.aaanet.ru [80.80.111.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C0A843F3F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:43:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bushman@rsu.ru) Received: from [80.80.109.87] (helo=p75) by smtp.aaanet.ru with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19TMAX-000K0K-TT; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:43:12 +0400 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:43:06 +0400 From: Michael Bushkov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62i) Organization: RSU X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <31880874.20030620174306@rsu.ru> To: Terry Lambert In-Reply-To: <3EF2BF54.9CA3604B@mindspring.com> References: <8713472442.20030619163913@rsu.ru> <87k7bi86ve.fsf@PECTOPAH.shenton.org> <3EF29B78.11DF3FA4@mindspring.com> <165845726.20030620095811@rsu.ru> <3EF2BF54.9CA3604B@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: nscd for freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michael Bushkov List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:43:19 -0000 TL> Quite cool! TL> NB: If you are strict NSS, you might be able to use the TL> nss_ldap from FreeBSD without modification. TL> I think this is ideal, so long as you can have multiple TL> concurrent requests (e.g. there is at least a 64bit tag that TL> gets given with the request and returned with the response, TL> which can be a thread ID or other opaque data) on the same TL> connection. This would permit the creation of *_r functions TL> for libc with a fixed overhead which does not increase per TL> thread per request. TL> I think you would need to have someone work on the actual libc TL> code to go with the daemon, as a proof of implementation, but I TL> think it's probably exactly what the doctor ordered! TL> I love that people do real research on things like this! 8-). TL> Is your code under a particular license, and are there some TL> proof of concept *_r routines, or do you need some volunteers TL> to help you work on anything? What would help you move forward TL> on this? TL> Regards, TL> -- Terry Hello again! Thanks for your letter. I'll tell you more details about our nsswitch implementation. We reimplemented nsdispatch function: int nsdispatch(const char *database, const char *method, const void *arg, size_t asize, void **res, size_t *rsize, int *errp) This function connects to our daemon, it bypasses special headers and all function parameters, packed as a single memory segment to it. Daemon calls needed library (as it is said in nsswitch.conf). And library functions must unpack the data, do all the work and return result to daemon, which sends it back to the libc. So daemon doesnt't know anything about parameters - he has them as a single segment. And we call nsdispatch function to retreive data in every libc procedure, that requires Name Service Switch. Our daemon code is quite ready - it doesnt't do any caching, but it's not a problem, i think. And, as i said before, we have a nss_files module - almost ready. Of course, it's a simplest of nss_modules but it is very good for developing and testing. Helping us with this project will be really great! May be will be able to finish it quite soon. We would also be pleased to hear all the ideas and thoughts. We may restucture it if needed. I can send you the sources, if you're interested. They are not under any licenses at the moment. I think, the main task that we currently have is to adapt nss_ldap module for our project (as you see, it's not strict nss). Michael A. Bushkov Computer Center of Rostov State University mailto:bushman@rsu.ru From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 10:25:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442B837B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-169-104-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.169.104.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B83943F3F; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:25:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE2466E40; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 31301796; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:25:40 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030620172540.GA54062@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> <20030619003054.GC93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF17471.36CC59B9@mindspring.com> <20030619090332.GO93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF29286.99CF131D@mindspring.com> <20030620101200.GA14047@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="17pEHd4RhPHOinZp" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030620101200.GA14047@iconoplex.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: English Police Officers (was Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:25:42 -0000 --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 11:12:00AM +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: > On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:50:14PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >=20 > > Like the English policeman, they were alarmed > > when they thought about it, but about all they could contractually > > do was say "Stop! Or we'll ask you to 'Stop!' again!". >=20 > Sorry to go off on a tangent (follow-up set to -chat), but as somebody kn= own > to be English, I have to defend (if that's the right word) the nastiness = of > my local law enfocement officers. I wouldn't worry too much about it, the above is just one of Terry's catchphrases. Kris --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+80OTWry0BWjoQKURAomdAKD5zuvHsK1RDe7bsfsDOI5Tt3VGrACfeHVc SlSvNnbFP2kg3zvQI+5mx/Q= =51W0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 10:35:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D11CC37B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B1843F75; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Received: from acm.org (big.x.kientzle.com [66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KHZWtJ065513; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Message-ID: <3EF34676.9060708@acm.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:37:58 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson References: <200306162015.06836.nakal@web.de> <20030616151024.0616e1e4.eaja@erols.com> <20030616191852.GA52694@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20030618100125.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <1055948691.92188.10.camel@beastie.freebsd.local> <20030618154012.GE533@xtanbul> <20030619095739.GC20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EF1E7EC.3040908@acm.org> <20030619170742.GO20204@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EF20ADE.9000904@acm.org> <20030620094730.GP20204@iconoplex.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: YAPIB (was: Drawing graphics on terminal) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: kientzle@acm.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:35:42 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > ... if I want to install package A which requires B and C, B > requires D and E, and D requires F, your installer would go Start A -> I > need B -> Start B -> I need D -> Start D -> I need F -> Install F -> Install > D -> I need E -> Install E -> Install B -> Install C > .... > In the chain above, if F isn't available for some reason, you have A, B and > D all half installed on your machine waiting for a 32Kb library on an > un-mirrored FTP server in bulgaria... hmmm... Yes, meanwhile, the server providing B times out your connection, the whole install gets rolled back, and you have to start again from scratch. Not pretty. >>One way to address this would be to separate "install-time" >>requirements from "run-time" requirements. > > If you need it at run time, surely it make sense to grab it at build time? > I'm not sure I can see the benefit of seperating it out The benefit being that only "install time" requirements actually need to be installed recursively. Run-time requirements can be queued up and installed afterwards. This reduces the likelihood that network installs will get stalled for long periods of time. Of course, this doesn't really solve the underlying problem. As I said, if you can get requirements information from somewhere else (the INDEX files available on CDs and FTP sites), then you can build a full, properly sorted list of packages and install them in order without any stalls. That's the approach I'm planning to pursue next. > I'm thinking about backward compatability on the command line for -r that > grabs the "master re-direct" file in the format above.. Hmmm.. There are two problems here: The first is maintenance. Suppose a couple of friends of mine set up a site with packages that they're building. I want to be able to add their site to my personal list of package sources without having to go bug the "Official FreeBSD FTP Package Uber-Person" to get their packages added to the master file. This means that my pkg_add needs to be able to search multiple sites no matter what. Don't rely on a single definitive source of package information. Having some sort of redirect support in the INDEX file is fine and easy to add, but you still need the client to be able to search multiple sources. This is one thing the Debian folks got right. The other problem is that the current -r is fundamentally limited (to a single network source) and draws a rather pointless distinction (you get to search either disk sources with PKG_PATH _OR_ you get to search a network source, but not both). I'd like to erase that distinction so that pkg_add just searches all available sources. I can see where a flag to inhibit network downloads might be useful. (I'm sitting on an airplane with my laptop and I _think_ I downloaded everything I needed before I left the office.) However, flags like -r that select individual sources just strike me as rather pointless. >>Perhaps you could formulate a couple of scenarios in which it would >>be beneficial to be able to mix and match these two? > > Where the port exists, but a pre-built binary isn't available, Okay, I can see some merit in having pkg_add mine the ports system as a source of packages. Basically, if the ports version is the newest, provide the user an option of installing from there. Easy to do, but I'd be cautious with this. Building OpenOffice or KDE from ports is an adventure that most people would rather skip, and pkg_add shouldn't be automatically starting a port compile just because it notices that there's a 1.0.3 port and a 1.0.2 package. Of course, there's also some merit to working on this issue from the other side. In many cases, port requirements could easily be satisfied from packages. (How many people really need to compile the JPEG library?) > ... or where somebody wants easy install with his own configure options. If people really want their own config options, then they should work with the port directly. There's no feasible way to wrap every possible port option into a single tool. The whole point of the ports framework is the extreme flexibility it provides. > ... you get the advantage of being able to wrap ports > into the /var/db/pkg DB ... you could write a > switch to make a package ... based on the port. All of this already exists. Ports already register with the /var/db/pkg DB and the ports framework already has make targets to build packages from any port. > ... whereas I'm thinking of a DB on disk, or > retrieved over the network for EACH PACKAGE, ... This already exists; it's called /usr/ports. See the pkg-* files, the Makefile, etc. Those already exist, and can be mined by other tools. (Look at crunchgen for some tips on how to effectively mine data from conforming Makefiles.) Tim Kientzle From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 10:44:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD57E37B419 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatorzone.com (gatormail.gatorzone.com [216.53.131.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE5E43F3F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:44:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cd_freebsd@gatorzone.com) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:50:00 -0400 Message-Id: <200306201350.AA132710518@gatorzone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "cd_freebsd" To: X-Mailer: Subject: Removable Media in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: cd_freebsd@gatorzone.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:44:45 -0000 In linux, there are two functions specifically for removable media drivers (like floppy & cdrom), namely, check_media_change and revalidate. Is there a corresponding set of functions in FreeBSD? How do you tell if a diskette has changed? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 11:33:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E9637B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend3.aha.ru (elk.zenon.net [213.189.198.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 335B243FAF; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend3.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 8357924; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:33:16 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00763; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:35:10 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306201835.WAA00763@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: <200306200807.h5K870M7059110@gw.catspoiler.org> from Don Lewis at "Jun 20, 3 01:07:00 am" To: truckman@FreeBSD.org (Don Lewis) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:35:08 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:33:31 -0000 Don, > One case where there is a difference between timing out old file handles > and just invalidating them on ESTALE: Frankly, I just didn't find any mechanism in the STABLE kernel that does "timing out" for file handles. Do you mean, it would be nice to have it or are you trying to point it out to me? ;-P > client% cmd1 > file1; cmd2 > file2 > server% mv file1 tmpfile; mv file2 file1; mv tmpfile file1 > > wait an hour > > client% cat /dev/null > file1 > > If file handles are cached indefinitely, and the client didn't recycle > the vnode for file1, which file on the server got truncated? Since > neither file was deleted on the server, you can't rely on ESTALE to > detect this situation. Eh, but the generation number for file1 should have been changed! This will result in a definite ESTALE error for file1 from the server. That is, I believe that if you attempt to open("file1", O_CREAT) after an hour, you'll get ESTALE from the server (on which nfs_request() will invalidate "file1" namecache entry and vnode+nfsnode+old-file-handle) and the second vn_open() will re-lookup file1 and get a valid new file handle. Actually, this is what indeed happens if the second open() comes from the userland application :) I'm just trying to eliminate the need of modifying a generic application. For my example with moves, the next "cat" will always(!) succeed. > Question: does the timeout of the directory attributes cause open() do > do an NFS lookup on the file, or does open() just find the vnode in the > cache and use its cached handle? Well, for open() without O_CREAT the sequence is this: open() -> vn_open() -> namei() -> lookup() -> VOP_LOOKUP() -> nfs_lookup() | VOP_ACCESS() -> nfs_access() [ -> nfs3_access_otw() ] | VOP_OPEN() -> nfs_open() Lookup is always done first (obviously). It may return cached name which contains a pointer to a cached vnode/nfsnode. Cached vnode/nfsnode is used further in VOP_ACCESS() and VOP_OPEN(). Either function may or may not update file attributes cached inside nfsnode. Neither VOP_ACCESS() or VOP_OPEN() ever updates the *file handle*. File handle comes from VOP_LOOKUP(). And VOP_LOOKUP() only places it there if vnode/nfsnode isn't cached. Which I believe happens only if there is no cached filename in the namecache. I really tried to do my best to describe everything in: http://www.blackflag.ru/patches/nfs_attr.txt Please take a look. Whether ESTALE came from VOP_ACCESS() or VOP_OPEN() depends on several factors. Namely, the value of nfsaccess_cache_timeout sysctl, acmin/acmax and the age of the file in question. Generally speaking, if nfsaccess_cache_timeout is less than acmin, VOP_ACCESS() that comes right before VOP_OPEN() in vn_open() will try to do an "access" RPC request and it'll fail if the file handle is stale. If nfsaccess_cache_timeout is greater than acmin, than it's possible that VOP_ACCESS() will answer "yes" basing on the cached attributes, but VOP_GETATTR(), which is called from nfs_open() (which is VOP_OPEN() for NFS) will in turn "go to the wire" and still nfs_request() will fail with ESTALE. Hope, I'm making it clear :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 11:55:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FE637B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend3.aha.ru (elk.zenon.net [213.189.198.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53DBB43F75; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:55:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend3.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 8359727; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:55:28 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00837; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:57:09 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306201857.WAA00837@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: From uitm at "Jun 20, 3 10:35:08 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:57:07 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: truckman@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:55:32 -0000 > Eh, but the generation number for file1 should have been changed! This will I'm sorry, the generation number is not changed in your scenario. Thus, I believe if the sequence of actions on the server is mv file1 tmpfile mv file2 file1 mv tmpfile file1 like you described, it's safe to continue to use a cached file handle for file1 on the server since it still references the original file. And file2 just disappears from the server. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 12:20:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29DA37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend3.aha.ru (elk.zenon.net [213.189.198.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0646643F75 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend3.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 8362161; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:20:12 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00938; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:22:05 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306201922.XAA00938@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: <3EF2CDF0.6014ACB6@mindspring.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jun 20, 3 02:03:44 am" To: tlambert2@mindspring.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:22:04 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:20:17 -0000 Terry, > The place to correct this is probably the underlying FS. I'd > argue that getting ESTALE is a poke with a sharp stick that > makes this more likely to happen. ;^). Initially I was going to "fix" the underlying FS (that is, the NFS code). But it's extremely hard to do "nice", because I need to re-lookup the name(!) which is not referenced (easily? at all?) below VFS. > > I think this is exactly what happens :) Actually, I believe, I'm just > > getting another namecache entry with another vnode/nfsnode/file handle. > > You can't have this for other reasons; specifically, if you have > the file open at th time of the rename, and it becomes a ".#nfs..." > file (or whatever) on the server. I didn't trace "sillyrename" scenario much. But I believe, nfs_sillyrename() keeps it tight. At least, it uses nfs_lookitup() which may actually *update* the file handle. And it plays with the name cache purging as well. So I don't consider it as a real problem. However, for open for reading/writing the scenario looks quite clear for me. As I said in my previous message to Don, I'm just trying to eliminate the need to modify otherwise generic application to cope with the necessity of doing immediate open() if the first open failed with ESTALE. For a certain more or less common situation :) And I know, the second open from the userland application always works for the case I've described. > Don points out that Solaris tries to fix this via the "noac" mount > option for client NFS. It does bad things to performance, though :) I'm not trying to uncache everything. It's safe for me to use file pagecache if open() succeeds. I'm not trying to reach an absolute shared file integrity with NFS, believe me :) > { A, B, C } > fd1 open on B > fd2 open on C > rename B -> C > rename A -> B > > ? With your patch, I think we would potentially convert fd2 to point > to B whien it really *should* be "ESTALE", which is wrong (think in > terms of 2 or more clients doing the operations). You didn't specify client or server side, though. The result heavily depends on the exact scenario. With a single client, a new open() for "C" will result in fd2 if the original "C" is still opened (because of sillyrename?). Without fd2, any new open() for "C" will get a valid file handle for what originally was "B". And that's a correct behaviour. If the renames were on the server, then fd1 will be valid until the last client's close. However, any reference to the original "C" will fail. Re-opening "C" should result in a new file handle for what originally was "B". Am I wrong? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 12:58:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA60837B405 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beck.quonix.net (beck.quonix.net [64.239.136.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD4443F93 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:58:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from essenz@essenz.com) Received: from beck.quonix.net (localhost.quonix.net [127.0.0.1]) by beck.quonix.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KJwTE7048188 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from essenz@essenz.com) Received: from localhost (essenz@localhost) by beck.quonix.net (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h5KJwTLd048185 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from essenz@essenz.com) X-Authentication-Warning: beck.quonix.net: essenz owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:58:29 -0700 (PDT) From: John Von Essen X-X-Sender: To: Message-ID: <20030620123418.L47984-100000@beck.quonix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: question about rc.sendmail implementation... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:58:36 -0000 I am unclear why rc.sendmail works the way it works. For instance, in my rc.conf I have the following: sendmail_enable="YES" sendmail_flags="-L sm-mta -bd -q30m" sendmail_outbound_enable="YES" sendmail_outbound_flags="-L sm-queue -q30m" Note: I am not running the localhost submission agent and its related clientmqueue cleaner. (Dont ask... I have my reasons for not running msp) Now, if I do NOT use "/etc/mail/Makefile" to start the above config and instead just ran the above commands and flags manually, I would have the following two processes running on my system: root 41975 ... 0:00.01 sendmail: accepting connections (sendmail) root 41978 ... 0:00.01 sendmail: Queue runner@00:30:00 for /var/spool/mqueue Now, if use mail/Makefile with "make start" and I have the above config in rc.conf then I only see one process running: root 41975 ... 0:00.01 sendmail: accepting connections (sendmail) It is pretty obvious why this occurs, rc.sendmail has no routine for handling the sendmail_outbound_enable="YES" entry from rc.conf. What I dont understand is, why is this so? Why would it exist in rc.conf if nothing in rc.sendmail handles it? In my case, I simply modified mail/Makefile and rc.sendmail and added a start-mqueue/start_mqueue (and a stop-mqueue/stop_mqueue) routine that would parse the outbound entry from rc.conf. Just curious as to why this is not the default? -John From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 13:39:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9757837B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (217-ip-163.nccn.net [209.79.217.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DCD543F93 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KKd5M7060679; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200306202039.h5KKd5M7060679@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:39:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: uitm@blackflag.ru In-Reply-To: <200306201835.WAA00763@slt.oz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:39:19 -0000 On 20 Jun, Andrey Alekseyev wrote: > Don, > >> One case where there is a difference between timing out old file handles >> and just invalidating them on ESTALE: > > Frankly, I just didn't find any mechanism in the STABLE kernel that > does "timing out" for file handles. Do you mean, it would be nice to have > it or are you trying to point it out to me? ;-P If there isn't such a mechanism, there should be. >> client% cmd1 > file1; cmd2 > file2 >> server% mv file1 tmpfile; mv file2 file1; mv tmpfile file1 >> >> wait an hour >> >> client% cat /dev/null > file1 >> >> If file handles are cached indefinitely, and the client didn't recycle >> the vnode for file1, which file on the server got truncated? Since >> neither file was deleted on the server, you can't rely on ESTALE to >> detect this situation. > > Eh, but the generation number for file1 should have been changed! This will > result in a definite ESTALE error for file1 from the server. That is, I > believe that if you attempt to open("file1", O_CREAT) after an hour, you'll > get ESTALE from the server (on which nfs_request() will invalidate "file1" > namecache entry and vnode+nfsnode+old-file-handle) and the second vn_open() > will re-lookup file1 and get a valid new file handle. If the client still has a cached copy of the file handle for file1, won't it just use that and truncate file2 on the server? The handle never doesn't stale because the file was never deleted on the server. > Actually, this is what indeed happens if the second open() comes from the > userland application :) I'm just trying to eliminate the need of modifying > a generic application. > > For my example with moves, the next "cat" will always(!) succeed. > >> Question: does the timeout of the directory attributes cause open() do >> do an NFS lookup on the file, or does open() just find the vnode in the >> cache and use its cached handle? > > Well, for open() without O_CREAT the sequence is this: > open() -> vn_open() -> namei() -> lookup() -> VOP_LOOKUP() -> nfs_lookup() > | > VOP_ACCESS() -> nfs_access() [ -> nfs3_access_otw() ] > | > VOP_OPEN() -> nfs_open() > > Lookup is always done first (obviously). It may return cached name which > contains a pointer to a cached vnode/nfsnode. Cached vnode/nfsnode is used > further in VOP_ACCESS() and VOP_OPEN(). Either function may or may not > update file attributes cached inside nfsnode. Neither VOP_ACCESS() or > VOP_OPEN() ever updates the *file handle*. File handle comes from > VOP_LOOKUP(). And VOP_LOOKUP() only places it there if vnode/nfsnode isn't > cached. Which I believe happens only if there is no cached filename in > the namecache. I really tried to do my best to describe everything in: > http://www.blackflag.ru/patches/nfs_attr.txt > Please take a look. If the client is mostly idle, then the cached filename is unlikely to be flushed, so even after a long period of time, namei() will return the old vnode and its associated file handle. If the file on the server was renamed and not deleted, the server won't return ESTALE for the handle and open() will return a descriptor for the original file on the server that has since been renamed, not for the new file on the server that lives at the path name passed to open() on the client. Another example: client% cmd1 > file1 client% cmd2 > file2 client% more file1 ^Z suspended server% mv file1 tmpfile; mv file2 file1; mv tmpfile file2 wait 24 hours client% cat /dev/null > file1 client% fg The last cat comand should truncate file1 on the server, which is the output of cmd2. When the more command resumes, it should still be able to able to see the output of cmd1. The old file1 vnode and file handle should remain valid, but the lookup to open file1 for the last cat command needs to know that the cache entry has timed out and that the handle associated with the cached vnode for file1 hasn't been validated in a while. Lookup() needs to bypass the cache in the case and pass the lookup request to the server. If the file handle returned is the same as before, the cache entry should be freshened, if the file handle is different then a new vnode needs to be allocated and associated with the name cache entry and the new handle. The old vnode and its handle need to be retained until either an rpc using this handle returns ESTALE, or the the file is closed and the vnode is recycled. > Whether ESTALE came from VOP_ACCESS() or VOP_OPEN() depends on several > factors. Namely, the value of nfsaccess_cache_timeout sysctl, acmin/acmax > and the age of the file in question. > > Generally speaking, if nfsaccess_cache_timeout is less than acmin, > VOP_ACCESS() that comes right before VOP_OPEN() in vn_open() will try to do > an "access" RPC request and it'll fail if the file handle is stale. If > nfsaccess_cache_timeout is greater than acmin, than it's possible that > VOP_ACCESS() will answer "yes" basing on the cached attributes, but > VOP_GETATTR(), which is called from nfs_open() (which is VOP_OPEN() for > NFS) will in turn "go to the wire" and still nfs_request() will fail with > ESTALE. > > Hope, I'm making it clear :) Yeah, but the solution that you propose doesn't fix the case where ESTALE is not returned but namei() returns a cached vnode associated with a file on the server that doesn't exist at the specified path name. Also, fixing open() doesn't fix similar problems that can occur with other syscalls that take path names, such as stat() and readlink(). If the lookup code is changed so that it more frequently revalidates the name->vnode->handle entries, then the window where open() can fail due to ESTALE would be greatly reduced. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 13:40:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E715137B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (217-ip-163.nccn.net [209.79.217.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AEB43F85 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:40:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KKeSM7060691; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200306202040.h5KKeSM7060691@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:40:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: uitm@blackflag.ru In-Reply-To: <200306201857.WAA00837@slt.oz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:40:42 -0000 On 20 Jun, Andrey Alekseyev wrote: >> Eh, but the generation number for file1 should have been changed! This will > > I'm sorry, the generation number is not changed in your scenario. Thus, > I believe if the sequence of actions on the server is > > mv file1 tmpfile > mv file2 file1 > mv tmpfile file1 > > like you described, it's safe to continue to use a cached file handle > for file1 on the server since it still references the original file. > And file2 just disappears from the server. Well just its contents ... but this still violates POLA. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 14:50:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F86337B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E86E43FBD for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KLoTKJ025493; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:50:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h5KLo8Xl025490; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:50:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:50:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Dmitry Sivachenko In-Reply-To: <20030618162547.GA91861@fling-wing.demos.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Gary Jennejohn Subject: Re: struct ipc_perm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:50:57 -0000 On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Dmitry Sivachenko wrote: > > > Is there any reason why struct ipc_perm is not protected by #ifdef _KERNEL > > > in ipc.h? Is it supposed to be used from userland? > > > > It's needed by ipcs. > > Ah, I see. It is visible via struct msqid_ds. > > I developed a patch which requires addition of custom field to ipc_perm. > I am trying to imagine which problems can it cause to userland programs. We have local changes in the TrustedBSD development trees to extend all the structures in the kernel without modifying the ABI. We needed this to put labels in the various System V IPC object structures. We're not ready to merge them yet, but it will probably happen in the next month or so. If you'd like early access to the patch, we can drop you a copy. We'll merge it into the MAC tree in about a week. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 15:15:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4913B37B404; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend2.aha.ru (bird.zenon.net [213.189.198.215]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B5243FF3; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend2.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 193251877; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:14:34 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01809; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:16:22 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200306202216.CAA01809@slt.oz> In-Reply-To: <200306202039.h5KKd5M7060679@gw.catspoiler.org> from Don Lewis at "Jun 20, 3 01:39:05 pm" To: truckman@FreeBSD.org (Don Lewis) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:16:21 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:15:27 -0000 Don, > old vnode and its associated file handle. If the file on the server was > renamed and not deleted, the server won't return ESTALE for the handle I'm all confused and messed up :) Actually, a rename on the server is not the same as sillyrename on the client. If you rename a file on the server for which there is a cached file handle on the client, next time the client will use its cached file handle, it'll get ESTALE from the server. I don't know how this happens, though. Until I dig more around all the rename paraphernalia, I won't know. If someone can clear this out, please do. It'll be much appreciated. At this time I can't link this with the inode generation number changes (as there is no new inode allocated when the file is renamed). I'm not strong in rename and sillyrename alchemy, just can deduce something from the code, though not much. However, I've just tested my patch with the rename-to-other-name-on-the-server scenario, and it seems to return ENOENT to the application after the local file pagecache is invalidated and the client tries to actually read the file from server using old name and old file handle. > Also, fixing open() doesn't fix similar problems that can occur with > other syscalls that take path names, such as stat() and readlink(). That's a good point. However, if the patch for open() succeeds it can be further extended to other syscalls as well. > If the lookup code is changed so that it more frequently revalidates the > name->vnode->handle entries, then the window where open() can fail due > to ESTALE would be greatly reduced. Sorry, I've got no time for that :) I'm generally not in this area of activities. At least for the next few years I'm an extremely busy man :) Again, thanks a lot for your comments. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 15:58:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75DBE37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6B943FA3 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vahe@khachikyan.de) Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19TUpV-0002qC-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:58:01 +0200 Received: from [217.235.139.200] (helo=workstation) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19TUpU-0003Cc-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:58:01 +0200 Message-ID: <005201c3377f$65f4c460$0700010a@workstation> From: "Vahe Khachikyan" To: "FreeBSD Hackers" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:57:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: BUG in collate routines?! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:58:02 -0000 Hi , I was making a new locale for Armenian and it seams that found a bug in substitute routines. The problem is, that the colldef with substitution seams to have a buggy behaviour. When a locale has a LC_COLLATE defined with a substitution like German 'ß' which is substituted with 'ss', then a strcoll of strings 'sr' and 'ß' returns the same value like strcoll of 'st' and 'ß'. The colldef file for de_DE.ISO8859-1 says that the german ligature 'ß' should be substituded with 'ss'. I hope that I understood the meaning of substitude in colldef correctly, at least on Linux it works as awaited. Should we make a patch for libc or is this a correct behaviour? -- Vahe Khachikyan --- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 16:02:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904B337B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsdone.bsdwins.com (www.bsdwins.com [192.58.184.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A99443F85; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:02:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwd@bsdwins.com) Received: from bsdone.bsdwins.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bsdone.bsdwins.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5KMugsH029758; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:56:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jwd@www.bsdwins.com) Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bsdone.bsdwins.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5KMuW9L029748; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:56:32 -0400 From: John To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20030620225632.GA29485@BSDWins.Com> References: <200306200617.h5K6HaM7058935@gw.catspoiler.org> <3EF2CF89.3E5542F5@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF2CF89.3E5542F5@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Don Lewis cc: uitm@blackflag.ru Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:02:54 -0000 ----- Terry Lambert's Original Message ----- > Specifically, see the underline part of: > > > > + if (error == ESTALE && stale++ == 0) > --------------- > > ...he exits it after retrying it fails, and falls into the > standard ESTALE return case. > > If this gets committed (which I think it shouldn't because I > can see a genuinely bad handle getting converted to a good one > in a couple of cases), that line should probably be rewritten > to be more obvious (e.g. move the "stale++" before the "if" > statement and adjust the compare to compensate for the difference > so no one else reads it the way we did). hi folks, After looking at his original patch, I suggested modifying it for clarity to be of the form: error = vn_open(&nd, flags, cmode); if (error == ESTALE) error = vn_open(&nd, flags, cmode); /* single retry */ While I understand a number of you have reservations against this change, I think it worth serious consideration. Unless someone is willing to go into each of the individual fs layers and deal with ESTALE, this appears to be a relatively straight forward and easy to understand approach. Most of the main applications I run on clusters have all had their open routines recoded similar to the following (this from ftpd): int try = 0; while ((fin = fopen(name,"r")) == NULL && errno == ESTALE && try < 3 ) { if (logging > 1) syslog(LOG_INFO,"fopen(\"%s\"): %m: attempting retry",name); } if (fin == NULL && logging > 1) syslog(LOG_INFO,"get fopen(\"%s\"): %m",name); This is a real problem when using fbsd in high load / high throughput situations where highly sequenced operations are performed on a common set of data files from multiple machines. An example of this environment can be seen here: http://www.freebsd.org/~jwd/images/cluster.jpg If no one has any patches which can provide a better solution for handling ESTALE I would like to see Andreys' patch given a chance. Of course, if we don't want to do this, then I think it is high time we documented that open(2) can return ESTALE and provide a library routine that wraps open() with a retry :-) -John From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 17:37:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61EC737B401 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr (hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr [192.33.156.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134B543F3F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:37:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mh@ai.univ-paris8.fr) Received: from otake.ai.univ-paris8.fr (otake.ai.univ-paris8.fr [192.33.156.30]) by hon.ai.univ-paris8.fr (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5L0YpLr029779 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:34:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mh@localhost)h5L1YKH266545 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:34:20 +0200 (WETDST) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:34:20 +0200 From: Marc Hufschmitt To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: networked block device X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:37:36 -0000 I'm writing a remote block device on FreeBSD 4.6.2 As far as the network part is rather difficult, I don't want to include it in the kernel module. So I started coding my module with this overall structure in mind : - a program reads the block device. - the module receives read and write uio requests - no physio() nor strategy() for now - and send them to a local daemon. - the local daemon send the requests to remote daemons and data/status are send back. 1. Am I wrong in the way to do it? 2. What is the clean way to pass the requests between module and local client(s)? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 17:49:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC2337B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2a.lmco.com (mailgw2a.lmco.com [192.91.147.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D43943F3F; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from artem.n.tkachenko@lmco.com) Received: from emss01g01.ems.lmco.com ([129.197.181.54]) by mailgw2a.lmco.com (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5L0nqv23069; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.lmco.com by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #40643) id <0HGT00P013N467@lmco.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EMSS01I00.us.lmco.com ([129.197.181.70]) by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #40643) with ESMTP id <0HGT005Z83N3CO@lmco.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by EMSS01I00.us.lmco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:51 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:45 -0700 From: "Tkachenko, Artem N" To: "Freebsd-Config (E-mail)" , "Freebsd-Hackers (E-mail)" , "Freebsd-Questions (E-mail)" Message-id: <573562C6FDA9564A8EEE66D899BC190B02935D93@EMSS01M10.us.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: VPN remote access server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:49:55 -0000 Hi, I am trying to set up a remote access server. I have the fallowing picture: Node1 ----------Internet----------Node2-----------LAN using IP Node1: Win2K VPN connection using PPTP IP (public) = 129.197.23.232 Node2: FreeBSD Remote access server (need to set up) IP (public) = 129.197.244.6 IP (privet) = 10.0.77.1 Node1 is already set up. Now I need to set up Node2. I have no idea how to do it. What programs do I use? How do I set them up? Where can I find some help on it? Please help. Thank you very much. Artem Tkachenko artem.n.tkachenko@lmco.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 17:56:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB3B37B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.attbi.com (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FCB43F93; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:56:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([12.233.125.100]) by attbi.com (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20030621005613016009rsl8e>; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:56:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA60570; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:56:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "Tkachenko, Artem N" In-Reply-To: <573562C6FDA9564A8EEE66D899BC190B02935D93@EMSS01M10.us.lmco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: "Freebsd-Hackers \(E-mail\)" cc: "Freebsd-Questions \(E-mail\)" cc: "Freebsd-Config \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: VPN remote access server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:56:16 -0000 use mpd (in ports/net) On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Tkachenko, Artem N wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to set up a remote access server. I have the fallowing picture: > > Node1 ----------Internet----------Node2-----------LAN using IP > > Node1: > Win2K > VPN connection using PPTP > IP (public) = 129.197.23.232 > > Node2: > FreeBSD > Remote access server (need to set up) > IP (public) = 129.197.244.6 > IP (privet) = 10.0.77.1 > > Node1 is already set up. Now I need to set up Node2. I have no idea how to > do it. What programs do I use? How do I set them up? Where can I find some > help on it? Please help. Thank you very much. > > Artem Tkachenko > artem.n.tkachenko@lmco.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 22:36:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA20137B401; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D184C43FBD; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38ldsqe.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.243.78] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Tb2l-0002PT-00; Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:36:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF3EE81.F0FBA805@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:34:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway References: <20030617.060806.42773474.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618023138.GE93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030617.204100.122615446.imp@bsdimp.com> <20030618034838.GJ93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF0331A.2F2CF1DB@mindspring.com> <20030619003054.GC93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF17471.36CC59B9@mindspring.com> <20030619090332.GO93137@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3EF29286.99CF131D@mindspring.com> <20030620101200.GA14047@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030620172540.GA54062@rot13.obsecurity.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4e0c9e5c319f82be7568955907e12d641350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: English Police Officers (was Re: Interview in Byte with Chris Sontag/SCO and FUD relating toBSDsettlement agreement) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:36:11 -0000 Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 11:12:00AM +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:50:14PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > Like the English policeman, they were alarmed > > > when they thought about it, but about all they could contractually > > > do was say "Stop! Or we'll ask you to 'Stop!' again!". > > > > Sorry to go off on a tangent (follow-up set to -chat), but as somebody known > > to be English, I have to defend (if that's the right word) the nastiness of > > my local law enfocement officers. > > I wouldn't worry too much about it, the above is just one of Terry's > catchphrases. "Stop, or I shall yell stop! again" Is actually a "cachphrase" of mine. I attribute it to Bruce Miller, and am willing to accept corrections. In reference to the Lions-UNSW/Western Electric situation, it refers to someone impotent to stop some action demanding that it be stopped. That they are impotent to enforce this request is evidenced by their only recourse being to ask the same thing again, while expecting different results. A scientific perspective would be that you get the results of an experiment, and, because you ask them politely, the laws of God and the universe bend to your will, merely because you are polite about asking them. Western Electric asked Lions to stop distributing, through the college bookstore, his commentary on the UNIX source code, despite the fact that the license that UNSW was granted permitted him such ditribution. The important point here is that the UNSW did not require students to sign a non-disclosure agreement, and therefore any trade secrets, if they existed, were disclosed in the process of publication. This is true because keeping a trade secret requires that disclosure be only to a "select group". The term "select group" has a specific legal meaning, and the failure of W.E. to require this in their license, floowed by the subsequent disclosure, means that any trade secrets were in fact lost: it doesn't matter how a trade secret escapes custody, the mere fact that it has done so renders it no longer a trade secret. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 02:35:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D663A37B404 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:35:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from little-jim.newcastle.edu.au (little-jim.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.24.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFBD43FA3 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from samuel.lawrance@studentmail.newcastle.edu.au) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.mx.newcastle.edu.au by mx.newcastle.edu.au (PMDF V6.2 #30731) id <0HGT00101RYZM7@mx.newcastle.edu.au> for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:35:23 +1000 (EST) Received: from banerjee ([134.148.4.49]) by mx.newcastle.edu.au (PMDF V6.2 #30731) with ESMTP id <0HGT0012QRYZAG@mx.newcastle.edu.au> for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:35:23 +1000 (EST) Received: from studentmail.newcastle.edu.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by banerjee.newcastle.edu.au (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.10 (built Jan 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HGT00HQMRYRB0@banerjee.newcastle.edu.au> for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:35:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from [203.12.144.232] by banerjee.newcastle.edu.au (mshttpd); Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:35:15 +1000 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:35:15 +1000 From: SAMUEL ISAAC LAWRANCE To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <7969777b1e.77b1e79697@studentmail.newcastle.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.10 (built Jan 23 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Subject: ucom driver, device/tty problems for new driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:35:27 -0000 Hi, I'm a kernel-internals newbie in the middle of creating a serial over usb driver to connect Pocket PCs to FreeBSD. Presently the driver works, although I'm trying to figure out some behaviour regarding the ucom tty device that I don't understand. The driver is ucom-based. All it does is fire of a couple of 'magic' requests to the Pocket PC to kick off serial mode. After that everything coming in and going out of the pipes is all data, so ucom is able to handle the rest. I've done enough debugging to know that the ucom driver is handing off incoming data to its tty correctly. The problem: The first thing that should come out of ucom0 when it is opened is the string 'CLIENT'. This happens correctly when I open the device with userlevel ppp. In fact once user ppp opens the device it does everything I want it to. It fails however if I do a 'cat /dev/ucom0' or 'cu -l /dev/ucom0'. Using either of these commands, I can see the ucom driver giving the data to the tty; but nothing shows up at the user end. I'm wondering whether I should be setting some sort of state on the ucom tty to 'make it go'. PPP must do something to it, but I just can't figure out what. Any help appreciated. Cheers, Sam Lawrance. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 02:53:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D741637B401; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from foem.leiden.webweaving.org (fia224-72.dsl.hccnet.nl [62.251.72.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7EB43F93; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:53:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Received: from foem (foem [10.11.0.2])h5L9rITr067018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:53:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:53:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik X-X-Sender: dirkx@foem To: "Tkachenko, Artem N" In-Reply-To: <573562C6FDA9564A8EEE66D899BC190B02935D93@EMSS01M10.us.lmco.com> Message-ID: <20030621115257.W47519-100000@foem> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: "Freebsd-Hackers \(E-mail\)" cc: "Freebsd-Questions \(E-mail\)" cc: "Freebsd-Config \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: VPN remote access server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:53:25 -0000 > Node1 is already set up. Now I need to set up Node2. I have no idea how to > do it. What programs do I use? How do I set them up? Where can I find some > help on it? Please help. Thank you very much. mpd Use pkg_add -r mpd or cd /usr/ports/net/mpd make all install Dw From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 04:58:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C7537B404 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.gmx.net (mx0.gmx.net [213.165.64.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9477743F93 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:58:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd_deamon@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 9081 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jun 2003 11:58:12 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:58:12 +0200 (MEST) From: freebsd_deamon@gmx.net To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="========GMXBoundary272721056196692" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Authenticated-Sender: #0018491972@gmx.net X-Authenticated-IP: [141.20.121.49] Message-ID: <27272.1056196692@www62.gmx.net> X-Mailer: WWW-Mail 1.6 (Global Message Exchange) X-Flags: 0001 Subject: reboot loop; udbp-driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:58:15 -0000 This is a MIME encapsulated multipart message - please use a MIME-compliant e-mail program to open it. Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format - bitte verwenden Sie zum Lesen ein MIME-konformes Mailprogramm. --========GMXBoundary272721056196692 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit dear list! yesterday i recompiled the kernel of two of my machines running 5.1R with options NETGRAPH device udbp in order to try netgraph with a Prolific PL2301 (inspired by the thread on hackers a while ago). one of machines (m/b: ASUS P2L97-S, more specific to hardware please cf qilin) since goes into a reboot loop right after [...] ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 uhci0: port 0xd400-0xd41f irq 9 at device 4.2 on pci0 usb0: on uhci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered if i boot it with the usb host-to-host adapter pluged in (if i plug it in after the machine booted up there are no problems) the other (m/d: PC-Chip M571, more specific to hardware please cf zhuangzi) does boot without any problems with the adapter plugged in the only difference between the machines with regard to adaptor is that the P2L97-S has a "Intel 82371AB/EB (PIIX4) USB controller" (UHCI) and the M571 a "SiS 5571 USB controller" (OHCI) any suggestions to how to solve the problem? thanks in advance Zheyu dmesg and kernel configs of both machines attached -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ Bitte lächeln! 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IFVTQiBldGhlcm5ldAojZGV2aWNlCQljdWUJCSMgQ0FUQyBVU0IgZXRoZXJuZXQKI2RldmljZQkJ a3VlCQkjIEthd2FzYWtpIExTSSBVU0IgZXRoZXJuZXQKCiMgRmlyZVdpcmUgc3VwcG9ydAojZGV2 aWNlCQlmaXJld2lyZQkjIEZpcmVXaXJlIGJ1cyBjb2RlCiNkZXZpY2UJCXNicAkJIyBTQ1NJIG92 ZXIgRmlyZVdpcmUgKFJlcXVpcmVzIHNjYnVzIGFuZCBkYSkKI2RldmljZQkJZndlCQkjIEV0aGVy bmV0IG92ZXIgRmlyZVdpcmUgKG5vbi1zdGFuZGFyZCEpCgoKCm9wdGlvbnMJCU5FVEdSQVBICmRl dmljZQkJdWRicAo= --========GMXBoundary272721056196692-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 07:12:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860F937B404 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x12.dk (xforce.dk [80.164.11.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119AA43F75 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from xride@x12.dk) Received: from x12.dk (xride@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x12.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LECLci032238 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:12:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from xride@x12.dk) Received: from localhost (xride@localhost) by x12.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id h5LECKUb032235 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:12:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:12:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Soeren Straarup To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030621160720.V311-100000@x12.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: LinkSys WPC54G PCCARD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:12:09 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi I just wonder if there is some way to get it to work. I have contacted LinkSys and they say that they might make a Linux driver some day, and that they will not release information for others to create a driver for this wireless nic. Their reason is security. So in my last try to get it to work i'm writting here.. Other wice I have to find someone that uses Windows. Best regards S=F8ren. *----------------------------------------------------------------* | Soeren Straarup Mobile: +45 20 27 62 44 | | FreeBSD wannabe since 2.2.6-R http://xforce.dk | | Also running OpenBSD and NetBSD aka OZ2DAK aka Xride | *----------------------------------------------------------------* -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+9GfEXTGeGCdlN14RAvhOAJ9fm+Ay160QFim6oGEQgFCvR9LFCwCgs19h xhiAEOmINvZrtMhw52FCN08=3D =3DSwV6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 08:12:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6141537B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x12.dk (xforce.dk [80.164.11.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BAE43F85 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from xride@x12.dk) Received: from x12.dk (xride@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x12.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LFCMci032411 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:12:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from xride@x12.dk) Received: from localhost (xride@localhost) by x12.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id h5LFCM2L032408 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:12:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:12:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Soeren Straarup To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030621171120.G311-100000@x12.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: LinkSys WPC54G PCCARD (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:12:10 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi how is it normal to treat auto email replies like this one? Best regards S=F8ren *----------------------------------------------------------------* | Soeren Straarup Mobile: +45 20 27 62 44 | | FreeBSD wannabe since 2.2.6-R http://xforce.dk | | Also running OpenBSD and NetBSD aka OZ2DAK aka Xride | *----------------------------------------------------------------* - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:14:37 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: Soeren Straarup Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: LinkSys WPC54G PCCARD I will be out of the office until July 7, 2003. I will respond to your email when I get back. David Dolson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+9HXVXTGeGCdlN14RApFHAKDLDOLTpMVuqT/Wdc6YxYlVeMlMBQCfSUaY UwYyu8iG+QVpfj3jbpAHJPs=3D =3DlumV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 08:56:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A0E37B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.farley.org (adsl-67-64-95-201.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [67.64.95.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5C943FBD for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:56:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean-freebsd@farley.org) Received: from thor.farley.org (zwfmj09ejpepx3kl@thor.farley.org [IPv6:2002:4340:5fc9::5]) by mail.farley.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LFtxMp000503; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:55:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sean-freebsd@farley.org) Received: from thor.farley.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thor.farley.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LFtxPC018954; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:55:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sean-freebsd@farley.org) Received: from localhost (sean@localhost)h5LFtxTk018951; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:55:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sean-freebsd@farley.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thor.farley.org: sean owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:55:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Sean Farley X-X-Sender: sean@thor.farley.org To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030621103502.K18572@thor.farley.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE cc: Sean Farley Subject: Replacing GNU grep revisited X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:56:02 -0000 In January, Pedro Giffuni started a thread about replacing GNU's grep in the system. Interestingly, I did not know about the grep thread on hackers until later. James Howard had interjected in February with mention that he had gotten patches to speed up freegrep. I had sent him those patches in late January, but I have not heard from him since. Hopefully, he is OK and just busy. I have placed the patches up on Geocities=B9 for others to try out. They get freegrep fairly close to the performance of GNU's grep. Also included is a small patch to regex to squeak a bit more performance out of it, but I am not certain if it actually helps or not. BTW, Postgres is using a newer version of the regex library--swiped from TCL--that FreeBSD uses. It supports multibyte characters. Is it time for an update? =B9 http://www.geocities.com/sean_farley/ Sean P.S. Please Cc me as I am not on the list. ----------------------- sean-freebsd@farley.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 11:40:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBBC37B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cicero2.cybercity.dk (cicero2.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C1C43F3F for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from db@traceroute.dk) Received: from user2.cybercity.dk (fxp0.user2.ip.cybercity.dk [212.242.41.35]) by cicero2.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60EC6C3C73 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:20:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from main (port132.ds1-arsy.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.239.73]) by user2.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A622B18668 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:20:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:27:39 +0200 From: Socketd To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030621202739.35446e75.db@traceroute.dk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Ftpd (option -h not working) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:40:04 -0000 Hi all When FreeBSD 4.8 was released I reported this bug, but now in 5.1 releaed it is still there. Since http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html is "down" I'll try reporting the bug here (again). When using ftpd, you have the -h option to prevent the server from giving any info about itself. This works fino regarding the greeting message and when typing "stat", but with "syst" is still gives info to the user. Will someone please forward this message to the maintainer of ftpd (can't find any mail is the source files)? br socketd From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 11:57:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78F937B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.macomnet.ru (relay.macomnet.ru [195.128.64.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B82A43FB1 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maxim@macomnet.ru) Received: from news1.macomnet.ru (news1.macomnet.ru [195.128.64.14]) by relay.macomnet.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5LIvDU7871299; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:57:13 +0400 (MSD) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:57:13 +0400 (MSD) From: Maxim Konovalov To: Socketd In-Reply-To: <20030621202739.35446e75.db@traceroute.dk> Message-ID: <20030621225623.Y72897@news1.macomnet.ru> References: <20030621202739.35446e75.db@traceroute.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ftpd (option -h not working) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:57:18 -0000 On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, 20:27+0200, Socketd wrote: > Hi all > > When FreeBSD 4.8 was released I reported this bug, but now in 5.1 > releaed it is still there. Since http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html is > "down" I'll try reporting the bug here (again). > > When using ftpd, you have the -h option to prevent the server from > giving any info about itself. This works fino regarding the greeting > message and when typing "stat", but with "syst" is still gives info to > the user. > > Will someone please forward this message to the maintainer of ftpd > (can't find any mail is the source files)? http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/50690 -- Maxim Konovalov, maxim@macomnet.ru, maxim@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 12:21:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFFA137B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cicero2.cybercity.dk (cicero2.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7B043F85 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:21:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from db@traceroute.dk) Received: from user1.cybercity.dk (fxp0.user1.ip.cybercity.dk [212.242.41.34]) by cicero2.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB2DC464C; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:18:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from main (port132.ds1-arsy.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.239.73]) by user1.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E4EE468AD1; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:18:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:25:59 +0200 From: Socketd To: Maxim Konovalov , hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030621212559.5b7a22e0.db@traceroute.dk> In-Reply-To: <20030621225623.Y72897@news1.macomnet.ru> References: <20030621202739.35446e75.db@traceroute.dk> <20030621225623.Y72897@news1.macomnet.ru> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Ftpd (option -h not working) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:21:51 -0000 On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:57:13 +0400 (MSD) Maxim Konovalov wrote: > > Will someone please forward this message to the maintainer of ftpd > > (can't find any mail is the source files)? > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/50690 Ah ok, strange it haven't been fixed jet then, but my bad for reporting it without checking first :-) br socketd From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 14:23:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A50037B401; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F11A43F75; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@sunbay.com) Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (ru@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5LLMXVd042977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:22:38 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru@sunbay.com) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h5LLMXUB042972; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:22:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:22:33 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Josef Karthauser , Peter Wemm Message-ID: <20030621212233.GA38671@sunbay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cmJC7u66zC7hs+87" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD CVSROOT scripts and spaces in directory and file names X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:23:00 -0000 --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD" Content-Disposition: inline --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there! Our local CVSROOT scripts are based on a 1997 year version of FreeBSD CVSROOT scripts, slightly modified to fit local needs, and we recently noticed a problem with not getting email notifications if the affected repository path has spaces in its name. I have verified that the modern CVSROOT scripts (which I am planning to migrate to soon) are subject to this problem as well. There is a couple of problems actually. The first problem turns out to be a known limitation in cvs(1), in a way how it constructs the argument to the log_accum.pl script (using the %s in CVSROOT/loginfo). With %s, both repository path and the list of files (added, removed, or changed) in that directory are passed as a single argument to the log_accum.pl script, separated by a single whitespace character, which obviously creates a problem for a parser in log_accum.pl that does a simple split(). The solution that works here and was inspired by reading the following comment in src/contrib/cvs/src/logmsg.c, describing the % format specifiers, /* All other characters, we insert an empty field (but we do put in the comma separating it from other fields). This way if future CVS versions add formatting characters, one can write a loginfo file which at least won't blow up on an old CVS. */ /* Note that people who have to deal with spaces in file and directory names are using space to get a known delimiter for the directory name, so it's probably not a good idea to ever define that as a formatting character. */ was to use %{ s} to get a known " ," delimiter. (Chances still are that the file/directory name will contain the " ," sequence, but this is less likely.) With this fix, no emails were lost anymore, but the contents were still damaged. If a directory name had a space in its name, the log_accum.pl::get_revision_number() that does a simple split() when parsing the "Repository revision" string from "cvs -Qn status", hits the whitespace problem. That was easy to fix, by limiting splitting to four elements only. Then I hit a real PROBLEM. The log_accum.pl script parses the standard log message generated by logmsg.c, to build three lists of added, removed, and modified files, each hashed by the "tag" (yes, it's possible to commit to different branches in one commit, and even to commit to a single file twice in a single commit). I first thought that I could just take the list of files from the argument to the script (generated by %{ s}), but there is no indication of "added/removed/changed", and, more importantly, there is no "tag" information. And the problem with building these lists by parsing the log message is that the lists of added, removed, and modified files are formatted by logmsg.c as separated by a single whitespace character (and to make it fit the 70-column width), which creates the same problem if a file has a space in a name. My first hack was to patch logmsg.c to have it list files one per line, so, for example, instead of Modified files: a b c=20 I have now been getting Modified files: a=20 b=20 c=20 This worked well, but I wanted a real SOLUTION. The solution I have found is to implement the %T modifier for "loginfo" scripts, which prints the tag (or HEAD for trunk). Combined with the %V and %v modifiers which print "NONE" for added and removed files, respectively, I have been able to fix the log_accum.pl's logic to not depend on the contents of the log message to build lists of added, removed, and modified files. Attached in this email are: - a patch for src/contrib/cvs that implements the %T (tag) modifier for CVSROOT/loginfo scripts, - a patch for log_accum.pl and loginfo that uses %T to deal with whitespaces in directory and file names. I'd like some input here before I submit this patch to CVS developers. P.S. The patch also removes two /usr/local/bin/awake uses =66rom log_accum.pl, as these made it unuseable for third party application. Josef, Peter suggested me to ask you to please address this particular problem with "awake", and to make this script useful for third-parties again. Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software Ltd, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=patch-contrib_cvs Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Index: doc/cvs.texinfo =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/contrib/cvs/doc/cvs.texinfo,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.13 diff -u -p -r1.1.1.13 cvs.texinfo --- doc/cvs.texinfo 2 Dec 2002 03:13:37 -0000 1.1.1.13 +++ doc/cvs.texinfo 21 Jun 2003 20:21:34 -0000 @@ -12888,6 +12888,8 @@ separators. The format characters are: @table @t @item s file name +@item T +tag @item V old version number (pre-checkin) @item v Index: src/logmsg.c =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/contrib/cvs/src/logmsg.c,v retrieving revision 1.11 diff -u -p -r1.11 logmsg.c --- src/logmsg.c 2 Dec 2002 03:17:48 -0000 1.11 +++ src/logmsg.c 21 Jun 2003 20:24:12 -0000 @@ -683,6 +683,15 @@ title_proc (p, closure) strlen (str_list) + strlen (p->key) + 5); (void) strcat (str_list, p->key); break; + case 'T': + str_list =3D + xrealloc (str_list, + (strlen (str_list) + + (li->tag ? strlen (li->tag) : 0) + + 10) + ); + (void) strcat (str_list, (li->tag ? li->tag : "HEAD")); + break; case 'V': str_list =3D xrealloc (str_list, @@ -767,6 +776,7 @@ logfile_write (repository, filter, messa `}' as separators. The format characters are: =20 s =3D file name + T =3D tag V =3D old version number (pre-checkin) v =3D new version number (post-checkin) =20 Index: src/mkmodules.c =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/contrib/cvs/src/mkmodules.c,v retrieving revision 1.12 diff -u -p -r1.12 mkmodules.c --- src/mkmodules.c 2 Sep 2002 05:57:13 -0000 1.12 +++ src/mkmodules.c 21 Jun 2003 20:16:33 -0000 @@ -69,6 +69,7 @@ static const char *const loginfo_content "# characters are:\n", "#\n", "# s =3D file name\n", + "# T =3D tag\n", "# V =3D old version number (pre-checkin)\n", "# v =3D new version number (post-checkin)\n", "#\n", --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=patch-CVSROOT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable diff --exclude=3DCVS -ru CVSROOT-freebsd/loginfo CVSROOT/loginfo --- CVSROOT-freebsd/loginfo Fri Feb 28 05:35:48 2003 +++ CVSROOT/loginfo Sat Jun 21 22:55:15 2003 @@ -27,4 +27,4 @@ #DEFAULT (echo ""; id; echo %s; date; cat) >> $CVSROOT/CVSROOT/commitlog # or #DEFAULT (echo ""; id; echo %{sVv}; date; cat) >> $CVSROOT/CVSROOT/commitl= og -DEFAULT $CVSROOT/CVSROOT/log_accum.pl %s +DEFAULT $CVSROOT/CVSROOT/log_accum.pl %{ TVvs} diff --exclude=3DCVS -ru CVSROOT-freebsd/log_accum.pl CVSROOT/log_accum.pl --- CVSROOT-freebsd/log_accum.pl Fri Feb 28 20:28:11 2003 +++ CVSROOT/log_accum.pl Sat Jun 21 23:00:25 2003 @@ -34,10 +34,7 @@ # ############################################################ my $STATE_NONE =3D 0; -my $STATE_CHANGED =3D 1; -my $STATE_ADDED =3D 2; -my $STATE_REMOVED =3D 3; -my $STATE_LOG =3D 4; +my $STATE_LOG =3D 1; =20 my $BASE_FN =3D "$cfg::TMPDIR/$cfg::FILE_PREFIX"; my $LAST_FILE =3D $cfg::LAST_FILE; @@ -233,7 +230,7 @@ while () { if (/^[ \t]*Repository revision/) { chomp; - my @revline =3D split; + my @revline =3D split(" ", $_, 4); $revision =3D $revline[2]; $revline[3] =3D~ m|^$CVSROOT/+(.*),v$|; $rcsfile =3D $1; @@ -635,8 +632,7 @@ # Initialize basic variables # my $input_params =3D $ARGV[0]; -my ($directory, @filenames) =3D split " ", $input_params; -#@files =3D split(' ', $input_params); +my ($directory, @fileinfo) =3D split " ,", $input_params; =20 my @path =3D split('/', $directory); my $dir; @@ -647,6 +643,23 @@ } $dir =3D $dir . "/"; =20 +my @filenames; +my %added_files; # Hashes containing lists of files +my %changed_files; # that have been changed, keyed +my %removed_files; # by branch tag. +foreach (@fileinfo) { + my ($tag, $oldrev, $newrev, $filename) =3D split(/,/, $_, 4); + push @filenames, $filename; + if ($oldrev eq "NONE") { + push @{ $added_files{$tag} }, $filename; + } elsif ($newrev eq "NONE") { + push @{ $removed_files{$tag} }, $filename; + } else { + push @{ $changed_files{$tag} }, $filename; + } + &append_line($TAGS_FILE, $tag); +} + # # Throw some values at the developer if in debug mode # @@ -697,7 +710,6 @@ =20 &do_changes_file(@text); &mail_notification(@text); - system("/usr/local/bin/awake", $directory); &cleanup_tmpfiles(); exit 0; } @@ -705,49 +717,26 @@ # # Iterate over the body of the message collecting information. # -my %added_files; # Hashes containing lists of files -my %changed_files; # that have been changed, keyed -my %removed_files; # by branch tag. - my @log_lines; # The lines of the log message. =20 -my $tag =3D "HEAD"; # Default branch is HEAD. my $state =3D $STATE_NONE; # Initially in no state. =20 while () { s/[ \t\n]+$//; # delete trailing space =20 - # parse the revision tag if it exists. - if (/^Revision\/Branch:(.*)/) { $tag =3D $1; next; } - if (/^[ \t]+Tag: (.*)/) { $tag =3D $1; next; } - if (/^[ \t]+No tag$/) { $tag =3D "HEAD"; next; } - - # check for a state change, guarding against similar markers - # in the log message itself. - unless ($state =3D=3D $STATE_LOG) { - if (/^Modified Files/) { $state =3D $STATE_CHANGED; next; } - if (/^Added Files/) { $state =3D $STATE_ADDED; next; } - if (/^Removed Files/) { $state =3D $STATE_REMOVED; next; } - if (/^Log Message/) { $state =3D $STATE_LOG; next; } + # don't do anything if we're not in a state. + if ($state =3D=3D $STATE_NONE) { + $state =3D $STATE_LOG if /^Log Message/; + next; } =20 - # don't so anything if we're not in a state. - next if $state =3D=3D $STATE_NONE; - # collect the log line (ignoring empty template entries)? if ($state =3D=3D $STATE_LOG) { next if /^(.*):$/ and $cfg::TEMPLATE_HEADERS{$1}; =20 push @log_lines, $_; } - - # otherwise collect information about which files changed. - my @files =3D split; - push @{ $changed_files{$tag} }, @files if $state =3D=3D $STATE_CHANGED; - push @{ $added_files{$tag} }, @files if $state =3D=3D $STATE_ADDED; - push @{ $removed_files{$tag} }, @files if $state =3D=3D $STATE_REMOVED; } -&append_line($TAGS_FILE, $tag); =20 # # Strip leading and trailing blank lines from the log message. @@ -896,7 +885,6 @@ &mail_notification(@log_msg); } =20 -system("/usr/local/bin/awake", $directory); &cleanup_tmpfiles(); exit 0; # EOF --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+9MyZUkv4P6juNwoRAuFvAJ98QkhXeZowaxTbeliBLeO6GWPOZwCfRp+i wNXvokOpK7S4WhLd0dg9W4U= =T8Al -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 14:35:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CFB37B401; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beck.quonix.net (beck.quonix.net [64.239.136.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA31543F3F; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) Received: from essenz.com (pcp04098733pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net [68.80.102.17]) by beck.quonix.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5LLZZE7060974; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:35:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:33:49 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: John Von Essen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <0BCBDE1C-A430-11D7-AA6D-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: rc.sendmail X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:35:42 -0000 Could someone please explain rc.sendmail to me? I am unclear why it does what it does. I currently have everything enabled in rc.conf: mta_start_script="/etc/rc.sendmail" sendmail_enable="YES" (1) sendmail_flags="-L sm-mta -bd -q30m" sendmail_submit_enable="YES" (2) sendmail_submit_flags="-L sm-mta -bd -q30m -ODaemonPortOptions=Addr=localhost" sendmail_outbound_enable="YES" (3) sendmail_outbound_flags="-L sm-queue -q30m" sendmail_msp_queue_enable="YES" (4) sendmail_msp_queue_flags="-L sm-msp-queue -Ac -q30m" With the above settings, when I do a 'make start', only (1) and (4) get started. If I set sendmail_enable="NO", then only (2) and (4) start. If I set sendmail_enable="NO" and sendmail_submit="NO", then only (3) and (4). This doesn't make any sense to me. For starters, why would I ever want just (3) and (4) running? Furthermore, I can't seem to get (1), (3), and (4) to all start together. I imagine people would want those three since you need your main sendmail running, and you could have a need for an "always-on" queue runner for mqueue and clientmqueue. Thanks. John From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 14:36:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA8A37B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geekpunk.net (adsl-154-185-208.bna.bellsouth.net [68.154.185.208]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2EC43FAF for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bandix@geekpunk.net) Received: from localhost.my.domain (taran [127.0.0.1]) by geekpunk.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5LLb0tP055853; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:37:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bandix@geekpunk.net) Received: (from bandix@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h5LLavHV055852; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:36:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bandix) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:36:57 -0500 From: "Brandon D. Valentine" To: Socketd Message-ID: <20030621213657.GW44742@geekpunk.net> References: <20030621202739.35446e75.db@traceroute.dk> <20030621225623.Y72897@news1.macomnet.ru> <20030621212559.5b7a22e0.db@traceroute.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030621212559.5b7a22e0.db@traceroute.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ftpd (option -h not working) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:36:31 -0000 On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 09:25:59PM +0200, Socketd wrote: > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:57:13 +0400 (MSD) > Maxim Konovalov wrote: > > > > Will someone please forward this message to the maintainer of ftpd > > > (can't find any mail is the source files)? > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/50690 > > Ah ok, strange it haven't been fixed jet then, but my bad for reporting > it without checking first :-) It has been fixed. Please read the entire audit trail of the PR. =) On 16 Jun 2003 it was committed to -CURRENT, which was after the date of 5.1-RELEASE. The audit trail indicates that yar plans to MFC this at some point RSN. I would doubt that this will make it into the RELENG_5_1 branch unless you can convince the Security Officer team that this is a serious problem for users of 5.1. Brandon D. Valentine -- brandon@dvalentine.com http://www.geekpunk.net Pseudo-Random Googlism: brandon is a tax attorney From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 17:59:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E2C37B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (ip114.bella-vista.sfo.interquest.net [66.199.86.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DE8A43F75 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:59:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5M0wsJa059837; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:58:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5M0wrMT059836; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:58:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:58:53 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Sean Farley Message-ID: <20030622005852.GB59673@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: Sean Farley , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20030621103502.K18572@thor.farley.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii:iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20030621103502.K18572@thor.farley.org> cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Replacing GNU grep revisited X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:59:07 -0000 On Sat, Jun 21, 2003, Sean Farley wrote: > In January, Pedro Giffuni started a thread about replacing GNU's grep in > the system. Interestingly, I did not know about the grep thread on > hackers until later. James Howard had interjected in February with > mention that he had gotten patches to speed up freegrep. I had sent him > those patches in late January, but I have not heard from him since. > Hopefully, he is OK and just busy. > > I have placed the patches up on Geocities¹ for others to try out. They > get freegrep fairly close to the performance of GNU's grep. Also > included is a small patch to regex to squeak a bit more performance out > of it, but I am not certain if it actually helps or not. > > BTW, Postgres is using a newer version of the regex library--swiped from > TCL--that FreeBSD uses. It supports multibyte characters. Is it time > for an update? dds@ has expressed some interest in compiling the FSMs for regexps into native code, which would make it blazingly fast. See cvs-all@. As a practical matter, there are only a couple of zealots who care what kind of license grep is under, so replacing GNU grep with something that's ``almost as good as GNU grep'' is a regression IMO. If we were talking about a kernel module or library, of course, that would be a different matter. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 19:53:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2CD237B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from castle.jp.FreeBSD.org (castle.jp.FreeBSD.org [210.226.20.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C161343FBD for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [::1])h5M2rXY90069; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:53:33 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org) In-Reply-To: <0BCBDE1C-A430-11D7-AA6D-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> References: <0BCBDE1C-A430-11D7-AA6D-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> X-User-Agent: Mew/1.94.2 Emacs/21.3 X-FaceAnim: (-O_O-)(O_O- )(_O- )(O- )(- -)( -O)( -O_)( -O_O)(-O_O-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Dispatcher: imput version 20030322(IM144) Lines: 7 From: Makoto Matsushita To: john@essenz.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:53:31 +0900 Message-Id: <20030622115331F.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc.sendmail X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:53:53 -0000 john> Could someone please explain rc.sendmail to me? Is rc.sendmail(8) not enough for you? -- - Makoto `MAR' Matsushita From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 21 23:35:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C171737B401 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (217-ip-163.nccn.net [209.79.217.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BEB43F3F for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:35:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5M6ZXM7066060; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:35:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200306220635.h5M6ZXM7066060@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:35:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: uitm@blackflag.ru In-Reply-To: <200306202216.CAA01809@slt.oz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: open() and ESTALE error X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 06:35:57 -0000 On 21 Jun, Andrey Alekseyev wrote: > Don, > >> old vnode and its associated file handle. If the file on the server was >> renamed and not deleted, the server won't return ESTALE for the handle > > I'm all confused and messed up :) Actually, a rename on the server is not > the same as sillyrename on the client. If you rename a file on the > server for which there is a cached file handle on the client, next time > the client will use its cached file handle, it'll get ESTALE from the server. > I don't know how this happens, though. Until I dig more around all the > rename paraphernalia, I won't know. If someone can clear this out, please > do. It'll be much appreciated. At this time I can't link this with the > inode generation number changes (as there is no new inode allocated when > the file is renamed). When a file is renamed on the server, its file handle remains valid. I had some time to write some scripts to exercise this stuff and discovered some interesting things. The NFS server is a 4.8-stable box named mousie, and the NFS client is running 5.1-current. The tests were run in my NFS-mounted home directory. Here's the first script: #!/bin/sh -v rm -f file1 file2 ssh -n mousie rm -f file1 file2 echo foo > file1 echo bar > file2 ssh -n mousie cat file1 ssh -n mousie cat file2 tail -f file1 & sleep 1 cat file1 cat file2 ssh -n mousie 'mv file1 tmpfile; mv file2 file1; mv tmpfile file2' cat file1 cat file2 echo baz >> file2 sleep 1 kill $! ssh -n mousie cat file1 ssh -n mousie cat file2 Here's the output of the script: #!/bin/sh -v rm -f file1 file2 ssh -n mousie rm -f file1 file2 echo foo > file1 echo bar > file2 ssh -n mousie cat file1 foo ssh -n mousie cat file2 bar tail -f file1 & sleep 1 foo cat file1 foo cat file2 bar ssh -n mousie 'mv file1 tmpfile; mv file2 file1; mv tmpfile file2' cat file1 bar cat file2 foo echo baz >> file2 sleep 1 baz kill $! Terminated ssh -n mousie cat file1 bar ssh -n mousie cat file2 foo baz Notice that immediately after the files are swapped on the server, the cat commands on the client are able to immediately detect that the files have been interchanged and they open the correct files. The tail command shows that the original handle for file1 remains valid after the rename operations and when more data is written to file2 after the interchange, the data is appended to the file that was formerly file1. My second script is an attempt to reproduce the open() -> ESTALE error. #!/bin/sh -v rm -f file1 file2 ssh -n mousie rm -f file1 file2 echo foo > file1 echo bar > file2 ssh -n mousie cat file1 ssh -n mousie cat file2 sleep 1 cat file1 cat file2 ssh -n mousie 'mv file1 file2' cat file2 cat file1 And its output: #!/bin/sh -v rm -f file1 file2 ssh -n mousie rm -f file1 file2 echo foo > file1 echo bar > file2 ssh -n mousie cat file1 foo ssh -n mousie cat file2 bar sleep 1 cat file1 foo cat file2 bar ssh -n mousie 'mv file1 file2' cat file2 foo cat file1 cat: file1: No such file or directory Even though file2 was unlinked and replaced by file1 on the server, the client immediately notices the change and is able to open the proper file. Since my scripts weren't provoking the reported problem, I wondered if this was a 4.x vs. 5.x problem, or if the problem didn't occur in the current working directory, or if the problem only occurred if a directory was specified in the file path. I modified my scripts to work with a subdirectory and got rather different results: #!/bin/sh -v rm -f dir/file1 dir/file2 ssh -n mousie rm -f dir/file1 dir/file2 echo foo > dir/file1 echo bar > dir/file2 ssh -n mousie cat dir/file1 foo ssh -n mousie cat dir/file2 bar tail -f dir/file1 & sleep 1 foo cat dir/file1 foo cat dir/file2 bar ssh -n mousie 'mv dir/file1 dir/tmpfile; mv dir/file2 dir/file1; mv dir/tmpfile dir/file2' sleep 120 cat dir/file1 bar cat dir/file2 bar echo baz >> dir/file2 sleep 1 kill $! Terminated ssh -n mousie cat dir/file1 bar baz ssh -n mousie cat dir/file2 foo Even after waiting long enough for the cached attributes to time out, the one of cat commands on the client opened the incorrect file and when the shell executed the echo command to append to one of the files, the wrong file was opened and appended to. Conclusion, the client is confused and retrying open() on an ESTALE error is insufficient to fix the problem. By specifying a directory in the path, I'm was also able to reproduce the ESTALE error one time, but now I always get: #!/bin/sh -v rm -f dir/file1 dir/file2 ssh -n mousie rm -f dir/file1 dir/file2 echo foo > dir/file1 echo bar > dir/file2 ssh -n mousie cat dir/file1 foo ssh -n mousie cat dir/file2 bar sleep 1 cat dir/file1 foo cat dir/file2 bar ssh -n mousie 'mv dir/file1 dir/file2' sleep 120 cat dir/file2 foo cat dir/file1 foo unless I decrease the sleep time: #!/bin/sh -v rm -f dir/file1 dir/file2 ssh -n mousie rm -f dir/file1 dir/file2 echo foo > dir/file1 echo bar > dir/file2 ssh -n mousie cat dir/file1 foo ssh -n mousie cat dir/file2 bar sleep 1 cat dir/file1 foo cat dir/file2 bar ssh -n mousie 'mv dir/file1 dir/file2' # sleep 120 sleep 1 cat dir/file2 cat: dir/file2: Stale NFS file handle cat dir/file1 foo In one of my tests, I got an xauth warning from ssh, which made me think that maybe the manipulation of my .Xauthority file might affect the results. When I reran the original tests without X11 forwarding, I got results similar to those that I got when I specified a directory in the path: #!/bin/sh -v rm -f file1 file2 ssh -x -n mousie rm -f file1 file2 echo foo > file1 echo bar > file2 ssh -x -n mousie cat file1 foo ssh -x -n mousie cat file2 bar sleep 1 cat file1 foo cat file2 bar ssh -x -n mousie 'mv file1 file2' cat file2 cat: file2: Stale NFS file handle cat file1 foo Conclusion: relying on seeing an ESTALE error to retry is insufficient. Depending on how files are manipulated, open() may successfully return a descriptor for the wrong file and even enable the contents of that file to be overwritten. The namei()/lookup() code is broken and that's what needs to be fixed.