From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 00:40:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE4816A4D0 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:40:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C0AA343D46 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:40:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Emanuel.Strobl@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 30593 invoked by uid 65534); 19 Sep 2004 00:40:43 -0000 Received: from flb.schmalzbauer.de (EHLO cale.flintsbach.schmalzbauer.de) (62.245.232.135) by mail.gmx.net (mp007) with SMTP; 19 Sep 2004 02:40:43 +0200 X-Authenticated: #301138 From: Emanuel Strobl To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:40:36 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> In-Reply-To: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> X-OS: FreeBSD X-Birthday: 10/06/72 X-Address: Munich, 80686 X-Tel: +49 89 18947781 X-CelPhone: +49 173 9967781 X-Country: Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200409190240.41508.Emanuel.Strobl@gmx.net> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: timh@tjhawkins.com Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:40:45 -0000 Am Sonntag, 19. September 2004 01:08 schrieb timh@tjhawkins.com: > 2 Major Issues: > > - FreeBSD has a processor affinity design issue > > - The core kernel issues with FreeBSD is the horrible threading > support.There is so much crap in FreeBSD kernel. The multithreading issue > in freebsd has been delayed for nearly 6 years. They have just made work > arounds, not fixing the actual problem. It seems that the only real BSD > that has made big progress on the core issues is DragonflyBSD. > > It appears that FreeBSD have a clear Multi-threading lock-in issue that > needs to be fixed. Not work arounds. According to many freebsd developers > nobody simply wants to fix this, is it true that the current smp work are > just 'work-arounds' not real fixing? > > The only thing holding FreeBSD back is the Multithreading issue. > > Please clarify this. Why should one answer to this email? Use what ever you think qualifies your needs! > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 01:09:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B3316A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:09:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net (invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.254]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B318D43D45; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:09:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from steveb99@earthlink.net) Received: from w072.z064003114.lax-ca.dsl.cnc.net ([64.3.114.72] helo=venice) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C8qCW-0007zu-7D; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:09:12 -0700 From: "steveb99" To: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:09:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <200409190240.41508.Emanuel.Strobl@gmx.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcSd4W57wNcqTUxxQO6+ayVJMWaJXgAAif2A X-ELNK-Trace: 61319303532569511aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7947053bb0cf5c1ac745376250e3be494d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 64.3.114.72 Message-Id: <20040919010912.B318D43D45@mx1.FreeBSD.org> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: timh@tjhawkins.com Subject: RE: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:09:13 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of > Emanuel Strobl > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:41 PM > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; freebsd-smp@freebsd.org; > timh@tjhawkins.com > Subject: Re: Please explain. > > Am Sonntag, 19. September 2004 01:08 schrieb timh@tjhawkins.com: > > 2 Major Issues: > > Why should one answer to this email? Use what ever you think > qualifies your needs! > Just a troll, look at all the cross-posting. Steve Barnette From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 02:14:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EEB316A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:14:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9E2F43D2D; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:14:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-83-77.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.83.77] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C8qIt-0005N6-LH; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:15:47 -0500 Message-ID: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: , , Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:14:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:14:54 -0000 Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell you or proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy if you did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I have only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT the way to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. **Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many high-scale developers. Thank you ----- Original Message ----- From: "steveb99" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:09 PM Subject: RE: Please explain. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of > > Emanuel Strobl > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:41 PM > > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; freebsd-smp@freebsd.org; > > timh@tjhawkins.com > > Subject: Re: Please explain. > > > > Am Sonntag, 19. September 2004 01:08 schrieb timh@tjhawkins.com: > > > 2 Major Issues: > > > > Why should one answer to this email? Use what ever you think > > qualifies your needs! > > > > Just a troll, look at all the cross-posting. > > Steve Barnette > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 02:22:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 482D916A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:22:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts10.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F206543D31; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:22:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dashevil@sympatico.ca) Received: from [192.168.2.32] ([67.68.38.73]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net ESMTP <20040919022233.TAPJ29920.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@[192.168.2.32]>; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:22:33 -0400 From: Chris Laverdure To: timh@tjhawkins.com In-Reply-To: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:22:34 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:22:35 -0000 On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 02:14, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell you or > proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy if you > did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I have > only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. > > I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT the way > to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. > > **Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many high-scale > developers. > > Thank you 1) The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. 2) Calling a troll on being a troll is mature. 3) If you believe it to be true, then don't use FreeBSD. Nobody is tying your hands here. You believe DragonFlyBSD to be superior? Then use it. Maybe I just don't see the big deal here, but the developers owe you nothing. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 02:30:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB6FC16A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:30:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B03E43D49; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:30:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-83-77.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.83.77] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C8qY8-0006dN-40; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:31:32 -0500 Message-ID: <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: "Chris Laverdure" References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:30:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:30:38 -0000 Your taking it the wrong way, I was simply asking a question to the developers to confirm this. I have standardized on FreeBSD. I apologized if I made it seem like I was trolling, not my intention. If a business were to standardize on FreeBSD, they would love to know if the multithreading issues would be fixed completely correctly not just 'work-arounds'. sorry and thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laverdure" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:22 PM Subject: Re: Please explain. > On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 02:14, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell you or > > proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy if you > > did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I have > > only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. > > > > I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT the way > > to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. > > > > **Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many high-scale > > developers. > > > > Thank you > > 1) The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. > > 2) Calling a troll on being a troll is mature. > > 3) If you believe it to be true, then don't use FreeBSD. Nobody is tying > your hands here. You believe DragonFlyBSD to be superior? Then use it. > > Maybe I just don't see the big deal here, but the developers owe you > nothing. > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 03:36:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C83016A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 03:36:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from whitehall.lin-tech.net (whitehall.lin-tech.net [66.118.35.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D54943D41 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 03:36:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bob@buckhorn.net) Received: from [209.169.67.4] (lfkn-adsl-209-169-67-4.txucom.net [209.169.67.4]) by whitehall.lin-tech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBAA7FDB9; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:36:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <414CFE86.9050406@buckhorn.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:35:34 -0500 From: Bob Martin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8a3) Gecko/20040918 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: timh@tjhawkins.com References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil> <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> In-Reply-To: <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd and fprot cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 03:36:11 -0000 In that case, you should 1) Only post to one list at a time. FreeBSD lists rarely overlap. 2) Make sure the question is germain to the list. Advocacy is not the right list. Bob Martin timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > Your taking it the wrong way, I was simply asking a question to the > developers to confirm this. > > I have standardized on FreeBSD. > > I apologized if I made it seem like I was trolling, not my intention. > > If a business were to standardize on FreeBSD, they would love to know if the > multithreading issues would be fixed completely correctly not just > 'work-arounds'. > > > sorry and thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Laverdure" > To: > Cc: ; ; > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:22 PM > Subject: Re: Please explain. > > > >>On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 02:14, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: >> >>>Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell you or >>>proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy if > > you > >>>did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I have >>>only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. >>> >>>I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT the > > way > >>>to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. >>> >>>**Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many high-scale >>>developers. >>> >>>Thank you >> >>1) The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. >> >>2) Calling a troll on being a troll is mature. >> >>3) If you believe it to be true, then don't use FreeBSD. Nobody is tying >>your hands here. You believe DragonFlyBSD to be superior? Then use it. >> >>Maybe I just don't see the big deal here, but the developers owe you >>nothing. >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 07:33:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D756C16A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:33:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9427E43D2D; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:33:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from elischer.org (adsl-68-120-130-250.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [68.120.130.250])i8J7XqqM029572; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 03:33:53 -0400 Message-ID: <414D365E.2030200@elischer.org> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:33:50 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: timh@tjhawkins.com References: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> In-Reply-To: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: smp@freebsd.org cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:33:54 -0000 timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > 2 Major Issues: > > - FreeBSD has a processor affinity design issue thanks for the non combatative and diplomatically styled message? > > - The core kernel issues with FreeBSD is the horrible threading > support.There is so much crap in FreeBSD kernel. The multithreading issue in > freebsd has been delayed for nearly 6 years. They have just made work > arounds, not fixing the actual problem. It seems that the only real BSD that > has made big progress on the core issues is DragonflyBSD. Dragonfly BSD is a branch of freeBSD that we are all watching with great interest. The advantage that is available there is the decision to go back to teh drawing board and start from scratch, thereby breaking a lot, in the hope of being able to fix it again when teh parts afe all completed. It is a very interesting experiment and as such, FreeBSD developers in general are watching with interest. > > It appears that FreeBSD have a clear Multi-threading lock-in issue that > needs to be fixed. Not work arounds. According to many freebsd developers > nobody simply wants to fix this, is it true that the current smp work are > just 'work-arounds' not real fixing? Well if you could explain yourself in English I'd have more of a chance of answering your questions. The big challenge with FreeBSD and MP is that we have to get from a "here" (where there was no MP at all) the a "there" (where there is), while having every step of the way between being a runnable stable (within reason) system. This greatly limits how things are done. The current SMP work is not just "workarounds" but rather steps needed to get from A to B. Sometimes you can't see what the final picture is by looking at an intermediate step in isolation. > > The only thing holding FreeBSD back is the Multithreading issue. I wish you would explain this statement. It could be interpretted in so many ways that it really is almost meaningless. (Some of the interpretatiosn however are not..) > > Please clarify this. Sure.. how about you clarify your question first however. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-smp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-smp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-smp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 09:10:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A921616A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:10:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtps-out1.xs4all.nl (smtps-out1.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FF043D31; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:10:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mhellwig@xs4all.nl) Received: from [10.0.0.173] (xinagnet.xs4all.nl [80.126.243.229]) (authenticated bits=0)i8J9AFTJ000530; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:10:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <414D4CEC.1050400@xs4all.nl> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:10:04 +0200 From: "Martin P. Hellwig" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; DragonFly i386; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040918 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: timh@tjhawkins.com References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil> <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> In-Reply-To: <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:10:18 -0000 timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: >Your taking it the wrong way, I was simply asking a question to the >developers to confirm this. > >I have standardized on FreeBSD. > >I apologized if I made it seem like I was trolling, not my intention. > >If a business were to standardize on FreeBSD, they would love to know if the >multithreading issues would be fixed completely correctly not just >'work-arounds'. > > Well, fair enough but it still comes down to if you have a other OS which does what you need than use that OS. But perhaps you require the BSD license for you biz? Actually I'm not very knowledged (far from) about design and multithread issues however from what I read is that mulitple CPU's is a real pain and the one who managed it the best is SUN (only read that - not sure about it), but there working 10 years on this issues and get paid for it. So what can you filter out of this? If you need your idea of multithreading, then let it develop and give it to the BSD community, otherwise use/buy an other OS. That multithreading issue is indeed a touchy point because it is so open for other interpretation, which one group sees a fine solution is for the other a low-profile dirty hack. Some hang more over to a clean design and other like designs but prefer something working. DragonFly has indeed taken a different approach about solving this issue, however which OS will provide the best solution will be proven over time. So IMHO your original question is not trolling but you simply ask it a couple of years to early :-) -- mph From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 10:13:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47DD016A4D0 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:13:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from santiago.pacific.net.sg (santiago.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.135]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EDDB743D4C for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:13:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 18505 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2004 10:13:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maxwell6.pacific.net.sg) (203.120.90.212) by santiago with SMTP; 19 Sep 2004 10:13:02 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.107] ([210.24.202.141]) by maxwell6.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP <20040919101301.SEYL17051.maxwell6.pacific.net.sg@[192.168.0.107]>; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:13:01 +0800 Message-ID: <414D5BA6.5080906@pacific.net.sg> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:12:54 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Martin P. Hellwig" References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil> <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <414D4CEC.1050400@xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <414D4CEC.1050400@xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:13:05 -0000 Hi, Martin P. Hellwig wrote: > timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > > Well, fair enough but it still comes down to if you have a other OS > which does what you need than use that OS. SMP support is only one thing to consider. > But perhaps you require the BSD license for you biz? > Actually I'm not very knowledged (far from) about design and multithread > issues however from what I read is that mulitple CPU's is a real pain > and the one who managed it the best is SUN (only read that - not sure > about it), but there working 10 years on this issues and get paid for The main difference is that they live from selling the hardware. If their operating system would not support their very own hardware up to the extent, their sales would drop. Sun's support for multiple CPUs includes also things which are not even supported by standard x86 hardware. Try to exchange a CPU while your PC based machine is running. Erich From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 02:34:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B19D516A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:34:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6911243D45; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:34:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) id i8J2YWJE028156; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:34:32 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:34:32 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: timh@tjhawkins.com Message-ID: <20040919023432.GA7981@dan.emsphone.com> References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil> <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> X-OS: FreeBSD 5.3-BETA4 X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:59:50 +0000 cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 02:34:35 -0000 In the last episode (Sep 18), timh@tjhawkins.com said: > Your taking it the wrong way, I was simply asking a question to the > developers to confirm this. > > I have standardized on FreeBSD. > > I apologized if I made it seem like I was trolling, not my intention. > > If a business were to standardize on FreeBSD, they would love to know if the > multithreading issues would be fixed completely correctly not just > 'work-arounds'. So far you have only mentioned the word "issues". Do you have a particular one in mind? Maybe your questions would be better answered on the freebsd-threads list. Make sure you include your OS version, threads library you are using, the application you are using, and your specific problem. CC: redirected appropriately. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 13:07:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7FA16A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:07:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from internet.potentialtech.com (h-66-167-251-6.phlapafg.covad.net [66.167.251.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F1D43D2D; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:07:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from working.potentialtech.com (pa-plum-cmts1e-68-68-113-64.pittpa.adelphia.net [68.68.113.64]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by internet.potentialtech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8D169A87; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:07:42 -0400 From: Bill Moran To: Message-Id: <20040919090742.5ad5e124.wmoran@potentialtech.com> In-Reply-To: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Organization: Potential Technologies X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.12 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: TROLLING!! (Re: Please explain.) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:07:45 -0000 Look. It's simple. Don't come on to a FreeBSD mailing list calling FreeBSD names, and then get upset when people call you a Troll. If you don't like how FreeBSD works or how it's being developed, use something else, or help the developers improve it. Otherwise, get the hell off this mailing list. Go to slashdot or something. wrote: > Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell you or > proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy if you > did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I have > only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. > > I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT the way > to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. > > **Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many high-scale > developers. > > Thank you > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steveb99" > To: > Cc: ; ; > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:09 PM > Subject: RE: Please explain. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of > > > Emanuel Strobl > > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:41 PM > > > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; freebsd-smp@freebsd.org; > > > timh@tjhawkins.com > > > Subject: Re: Please explain. > > > > > > Am Sonntag, 19. September 2004 01:08 schrieb timh@tjhawkins.com: > > > > 2 Major Issues: > > > > > > Why should one answer to this email? Use what ever you think > > > qualifies your needs! > > > > > > > Just a troll, look at all the cross-posting. > > > > Steve Barnette > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 13:13:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F2816A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:13:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from server1.ultratrends.com (server1.ultratrends.com [205.206.59.239]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A985843D41; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:13:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trodat@ultratrends.com) Received: from server1.ultratrends.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i8JCDrnH005889; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 06:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from trodat@ultratrends.com) Received: from localhost (trodat@localhost)i8JCDr1B005886; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 06:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from trodat@ultratrends.com) X-Authentication-Warning: server1.ultratrends.com: trodat owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 06:13:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Technical Director To: timh@tjhawkins.com In-Reply-To: <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Message-ID: <20040919055918.A5844@server1.ultratrends.com> References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:13:55 -0000 Err, maybe you should use ... HawkinsOS??? T.J.HAWKINS Secure, Stable, Supported Operating System... I really enjoyed that. Maybe this inquiry is to get the developers to work out HawkinsOS, whatever version of FreeBSD you sed'd s/FreeBSD/HawkinsOS/g, problems with multi-threading? My troll addition. PS Your site says you are a Programmer, providing proof of concepts for what you are discussing shouldn't be to hard. *** On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > Your taking it the wrong way, I was simply asking a question to the > developers to confirm this. > > I have standardized on FreeBSD. > > I apologized if I made it seem like I was trolling, not my intention. > > If a business were to standardize on FreeBSD, they would love to know if the > multithreading issues would be fixed completely correctly not just > 'work-arounds'. > > > sorry and thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Laverdure" > To: > Cc: ; ; > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:22 PM > Subject: Re: Please explain. > > > > On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 02:14, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > > Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell you or > > > proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy if > you > > > did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I have > > > only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. > > > > > > I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT the > way > > > to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. > > > > > > **Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many high-scale > > > developers. > > > > > > Thank you > > > > 1) The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. > > > > 2) Calling a troll on being a troll is mature. > > > > 3) If you believe it to be true, then don't use FreeBSD. Nobody is tying > > your hands here. You believe DragonFlyBSD to be superior? Then use it. > > > > Maybe I just don't see the big deal here, but the developers owe you > > nothing. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 14:57:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A0916A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:57:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF1D43D3F; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:57:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from dwp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974BF36D0; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:57:41 +0200 (MEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id CBFA1B85E; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:57:00 +0200 (CEST) To: References: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:57:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> (timh@tjhawkins.com's message of "Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:08:40 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:57:02 -0000 writes: > It appears that FreeBSD have a clear Multi-threading lock-in issue > that needs to be fixed. Not work arounds. According to many freebsd > developers nobody simply wants to fix this, is it true that the > current smp work are just 'work-arounds' not real fixing? Did David Rhodus put you up to this? You should just tell him to do his own dirty work. BTW, the FreeBSD Foundation (http://www.freebsd-foundation.org/) is an independent legal entity which supports, but is not identical with, the FreeBSD Project (http://www.freebsd.org/). Furthermore, be advised that significant portions of FreeBSD were released under licenses that include terms like those reproduced below, and that your web site, http://www.hawkinsos.com/, is in breach of those terms. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgements: * This product includes software developed by Jason R. Thorpe * for And Communications, http://www.and.com/ .\" 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software .\" must display the following acknowledgement: .\" This product includes software developed by Winning Strategies, In= c. # 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software # must display the following acknowledgement: # This product includes software developed by the NetBSD # Foundation, Inc. and its contributors. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * "This product includes cryptographic software written by * Eric Young (eay@cryptsoft.com)" DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 15:15:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37CF516A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:15:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mindfields.energyhq.es.eu.org (73.Red-213-97-200.pooles.rima-tde.net [213.97.200.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8328743D1D; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:14:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from flynn@energyhq.es.eu.org) Received: from scienide (scienide.energyhq.es.eu.org [192.168.100.1]) by mindfields.energyhq.es.eu.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E62735821; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:14:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:14:22 +0200 From: Miguel Mendez To: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Message-Id: <20040919171422.155a98c3.flynn@energyhq.es.eu.org> In-Reply-To: References: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.12-gtk2-20040622 (GTK+ 2.4.9; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="Signature=_Sun__19_Sep_2004_17_14_22_+0200_dodLY9A0D50DifA=" cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org cc: timh@tjhawkins.com Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:15:08 -0000 --Signature=_Sun__19_Sep_2004_17_14_22_+0200_dodLY9A0D50DifA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:57:00 +0200 des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) wrote: Hi, > writes: > > It appears that FreeBSD have a clear Multi-threading lock-in issue > > that needs to be fixed. Not work arounds. According to many freebsd > > developers nobody simply wants to fix this, is it true that the > > current smp work are just 'work-arounds' not real fixing? >=20 > Did David Rhodus put you up to this? You should just tell him to do > his own dirty work. Why don't you and Bosko leave the DragonFlyBSD people alone? I don't get it. Are you jealous of their work or what? You're not helping inter-camp relations if you pick on them every time you have an opportunity. I'm sure David would post anything he wants to without resorting to silly games. Cheers, --=20 Miguel Mendez http://www.energyhq.es.eu.org PGP Key: 0xDC8514F1 Note: All HTML and non-english mail goes to /dev/null --Signature=_Sun__19_Sep_2004_17_14_22_+0200_dodLY9A0D50DifA= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBTaJRnLctrNyFFPERAgUDAJ9o4JmXjrj8Uw345a5RmFwlYGqcHwCfT2pH /gIsQ8ZKcmHwHY3gkFFyBgo= =GVB3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Sun__19_Sep_2004_17_14_22_+0200_dodLY9A0D50DifA=-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 15:30:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883EF16A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:30:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95DA43D1F; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:30:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (64-144-75-99.client.dsl.net [64.144.75.99]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JFT4ex008677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:29:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:29:39 -0400 From: Tom Rhodes To: Miguel Mendez Message-Id: <20040919112939.66713788@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20040919171422.155a98c3.flynn@energyhq.es.eu.org> References: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <20040919171422.155a98c3.flynn@energyhq.es.eu.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.12 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org cc: timh@tjhawkins.com cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:30:06 -0000 On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:14:22 +0200 Miguel Mendez wrote: > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:57:00 +0200 > des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > > writes: > > > It appears that FreeBSD have a clear Multi-threading lock-in issue > > > that needs to be fixed. Not work arounds. According to many freebsd > > > developers nobody simply wants to fix this, is it true that the > > > current smp work are just 'work-arounds' not real fixing? > >=20 > > Did David Rhodus put you up to this? You should just tell him to do > > his own dirty work. >=20 > Why don't you and Bosko leave the DragonFlyBSD people alone? I don't get > it. Are you jealous of their work or what? You're not helping > inter-camp relations if you pick on them every time you have an > opportunity. Oh back off; you obviously have only a small part of the story. >=20 > I'm sure David would post anything he wants to without resorting to > silly games. You're correct; he would just slander throughout forums such as /. and the like; that is sooo much better then coming here. Yet, it does keep our lists a little cleaner. --=20 Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 15:52:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5ED16A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:52:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from post-23.mail.nl.demon.net (post-23.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F6843D2D; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:52:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from gibsonnet.demon.nl ([82.161.57.57]:14633 helo=[192.168.1.19]) by post-23.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C93ze-000DBF-RX; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:52:50 +0000 Message-ID: <414DAB53.4010902@sitetronics.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:52:51 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <20040919171422.155a98c3.flynn@energyhq.es.eu.org> <20040919112939.66713788@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20040919112939.66713788@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org cc: Miguel Mendez cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org cc: timh@tjhawkins.com Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:52:52 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:14:22 +0200 > Miguel Mendez wrote: > > >>On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:57:00 +0200 >>des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) wrote: >> >>Hi, >> >> >>> writes: >>> >>>>It appears that FreeBSD have a clear Multi-threading lock-in issue >>>>that needs to be fixed. Not work arounds. According to many freebsd >>>>developers nobody simply wants to fix this, is it true that the >>>>current smp work are just 'work-arounds' not real fixing? >>> >>>Did David Rhodus put you up to this? You should just tell him to do >>>his own dirty work. >> >>Why don't you and Bosko leave the DragonFlyBSD people alone? I don't get >>it. Are you jealous of their work or what? You're not helping >>inter-camp relations if you pick on them every time you have an >>opportunity. > > > Oh back off; you obviously have only a small part of the story. Or perhaps he notices that DES pulled an attack out of thin air, which was unprovoked. The best offense, in this case, is to STFU about your personal feelings about the works of another project. Nobody's getting very far making these attacks. >>I'm sure David would post anything he wants to without resorting to >>silly games. > > > You're correct; he would just slander throughout forums such > as /. and the like; that is sooo much better then coming here. > > Yet, it does keep our lists a little cleaner. > Funny, this entire thread only seems to be polluting the lists. How about you (yes, all you who shout ``don't feed the trolls'') actually _stop_ feeding them for once (or give the guy a reasonable answer; his question was horribly misinformed, but you would have shut him up sooner with facts, rather than attacks), stop making baseless claims, stop attacking other camps, stop attacking each other. I'm sure I'm going to get a bunch of cruft for this. But seriously, quit acking like a bunch of damned 5 year old girls, pulling each other's hair and grow the hell up! --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 17:09:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92AA216A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:09:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F41C43D45; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:09:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-83-77.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.83.77] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C94GO-0007Ui-1L; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:10:08 -0500 Message-ID: <014101c49e6b$61dbcaa0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: "Robert Watson" References: Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:09:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:09:14 -0000 Mr. Watson, you have addressed my questions greatly and I do agree that it will take years to successfully tackle the issue but when FreeBSD has had less funding than Linux it's obvious that it's developers have made huge progress and that I'm proud of. Your response was alot better than yelling the word troll or other things. FreeBSD is aware of the issues apparently and is working. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Watson" To: Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Please explain. > > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > > 2 Major Issues: > > > > - FreeBSD has a processor affinity design issue > > Odd statement, but I'm not sure what it means. FreeBSD uses an SMP model > similar to that used by Sun, SGI, and other operating system and hardware > vendors who are clearly aware of affinity concerns, and who have operating > systems that scale pretty amazingly on SMP and non-SMP multi-processor > systems. > > > - The core kernel issues with FreeBSD is the horrible threading > > support.There is so much crap in FreeBSD kernel. The multithreading > > issue in freebsd has been delayed for nearly 6 years. They have just > > made work arounds, not fixing the actual problem. It seems that the only > > real BSD that has made big progress on the core issues is DragonflyBSD. > > This is also an odd statement. FreeBSD is following a well-understood and > widely implemented model for SMP scalability, although somewhat refined as > a result of starting on it after the R&D curve that Sun, IBM, SGI, HP, > etc, got to pay for. However, any major software project of this sort > takes years to complete -- Linux is only just getting to reasonable SMP > scalability after a good 6+ years of investment by some pretty major > players. Doesn't help that Linus turns down patches from SGI that help a > lot though :-). > > BTW, I've spent a lot of time looking at the DragonFly approach, and I met > with Matt for quite a while at USENIX to talk to him about the approach. I > have a number of concerns about it -- I think the premise is very > interesting, but that the results aren't yet there to prove the model. In > particular, there's a huge volume of code in their system that has not > been addressed, and a lot of complexity that will need to be handled > before the SMP primitives they're using have proven that they offer the > desired performance advantage. We have the opportunity of using a hybrid > model, and have been exploring some of the ideas present in DFBSD (and, > one should point out, many other SMP systems). > > A lot of other systems have opted to use elements similar to those > primitives, but in a much more limited way due to the performance costs. > For example, locking services into particular CPUs prevents the scheduler > from balancing load between the CPUs in an service-transparent way. In > the DFBSD model, load balancing must be implemented separately for each > service, requiring extensive modifications to the services. I.e., the > model may indeed offer benefits, but the cost of doing the work will be > high, and the time to complete it long. We'll adopt elements of the > design as they prove to make sense, as we do with all other open source > operating systems (and they do with us!). > > > It appears that FreeBSD have a clear Multi-threading lock-in issue that > > needs to be fixed. Not work arounds. According to many freebsd > > developers nobody simply wants to fix this, is it true that the current > > smp work are just 'work-arounds' not real fixing? > > > > The only thing holding FreeBSD back is the Multithreading issue. > > I think this is a pretty odd claim -- FreeBSD 5.x scales much better than > 4.x on multiple processors, allowing large parts of the kernel to run in > parallel on different CPUs. The performance results are there, showing > 1.4x - 1.6x speedup in SMP tasks with MySQL. > > I saw elsewhere in the thread that someone suggested Darwin doesn't have > SMP problems to address. Darwin is actually in an almost identical > position to us, having basic VM, kernel memory allocation, and scheduling > outside the Giant lock. They took the route of breaking the BSD parts of > their kernel into two "funnels", the network funnel, and "the rest". Our > 5.3 release will actually be much better off than Darwin on SMP by > allowing many threads of the network stack to run on different CPUs, more > support for preemption and low-latency operation. I've talked with Apple > pretty extensively about their SMP work, and met with their kernel team to > discuss their work. > > Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects > robert@fledge.watson.org Principal Research Scientist, McAfee Research > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 17:56:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D0416A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:56:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC98A43D41; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:56:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-83-77.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.83.77] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C950O-0004XG-HH; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:57:43 -0500 Message-ID: <014d01c49e72$05fcf220$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: "Technical Director" References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil> <010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <20040919055918.A5844@server1.ultratrends.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:56:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:56:49 -0000 Ok, I just wanted an answer and I already got a *few* good answers and I DONT WANT A WAR. Yes, HawkinsOS is FreeBSD 5.x based and the goal is to donate back to the community, but this is irrelevant! The questions were not even over HawkinsOS. Let's all refrain from starting a huge arguement I have already received my answers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Director" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:13 AM Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > > Err, maybe you should use ... HawkinsOS??? > > T.J.HAWKINS Secure, Stable, Supported Operating System... > > I really enjoyed that. > > Maybe this inquiry is to get the developers to work out HawkinsOS, > whatever version of FreeBSD you sed'd s/FreeBSD/HawkinsOS/g, problems > with multi-threading? > > My troll addition. > > PS > > Your site says you are a Programmer, providing proof of concepts for what > you are discussing shouldn't be to hard. > > *** > > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > > Your taking it the wrong way, I was simply asking a question to the > > developers to confirm this. > > > > I have standardized on FreeBSD. > > > > I apologized if I made it seem like I was trolling, not my intention. > > > > If a business were to standardize on FreeBSD, they would love to know if the > > multithreading issues would be fixed completely correctly not just > > 'work-arounds'. > > > > > > sorry and thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Laverdure" > > To: > > Cc: ; ; > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:22 PM > > Subject: Re: Please explain. > > > > > > > On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 02:14, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > > > Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell you or > > > > proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy if > > you > > > > did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I have > > > > only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. > > > > > > > > I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT the > > way > > > > to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. > > > > > > > > **Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many high-scale > > > > developers. > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > 1) The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. > > > > > > 2) Calling a troll on being a troll is mature. > > > > > > 3) If you believe it to be true, then don't use FreeBSD. Nobody is tying > > > your hands here. You believe DragonFlyBSD to be superior? Then use it. > > > > > > Maybe I just don't see the big deal here, but the developers owe you > > > nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 18:13:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF65216A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:13:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E4343D55 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:13:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from hartkiem2nnl7x ([206.116.24.146]) by priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.netSMTP <20040919181349.RDGK7430.priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net@hartkiem2nnl7x>; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:13:49 -0600 Message-ID: <003f01c49e74$6b444e10$bb01a8c0@hartkiem2nnl7x> From: "Peter Kieser" To: References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg><1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil><010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg><20040919055918.A5844@server1.ultratrends.com> <014d01c49e72$05fcf220$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:13:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:13:50 -0000 You are breaking licensing terms with "your" HawkinsOS. I'd probably like to point out the fact that this is more then starting a "war" with the FreeBSD developers, but going much farther then that. Be advised that significant portions of FreeBSD were released under licenses that include terms other then the BSD License, and that you must follow if you want to advertise your OS. -- Peter Kieser Home: 604.338.9294 / Email: pfak@telus.net // "Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow." // ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Technical Director" Cc: ; ; Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > Ok, I just wanted an answer and I already got a *few* good answers and I > DONT WANT A WAR. > > Yes, HawkinsOS is FreeBSD 5.x based and the goal is to donate back to the > community, but this is irrelevant! The questions were not even over > HawkinsOS. > > Let's all refrain from starting a huge arguement I have already received > my > answers. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Technical Director" > To: > Cc: ; ; > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:13 AM > Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > > >> >> Err, maybe you should use ... HawkinsOS??? >> >> T.J.HAWKINS Secure, Stable, Supported Operating System... >> >> I really enjoyed that. >> >> Maybe this inquiry is to get the developers to work out HawkinsOS, >> whatever version of FreeBSD you sed'd s/FreeBSD/HawkinsOS/g, problems >> with multi-threading? >> >> My troll addition. >> >> PS >> >> Your site says you are a Programmer, providing proof of concepts for what >> you are discussing shouldn't be to hard. >> >> *** >> >> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: >> >> > Your taking it the wrong way, I was simply asking a question to the >> > developers to confirm this. >> > >> > I have standardized on FreeBSD. >> > >> > I apologized if I made it seem like I was trolling, not my intention. >> > >> > If a business were to standardize on FreeBSD, they would love to know >> > if > the >> > multithreading issues would be fixed completely correctly not just >> > 'work-arounds'. >> > >> > >> > sorry and thanks >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Chris Laverdure" >> > To: >> > Cc: ; ; >> > >> > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:22 PM >> > Subject: Re: Please explain. >> > >> > >> > > On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 02:14, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: >> > > > Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell >> > > > you > or >> > > > proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy > if >> > you >> > > > did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I > have >> > > > only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. >> > > > >> > > > I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT > the >> > way >> > > > to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. >> > > > >> > > > **Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many >> > > > high-scale >> > > > developers. >> > > > >> > > > Thank you >> > > >> > > 1) The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. >> > > >> > > 2) Calling a troll on being a troll is mature. >> > > >> > > 3) If you believe it to be true, then don't use FreeBSD. Nobody is > tying >> > > your hands here. You believe DragonFlyBSD to be superior? Then use >> > > it. >> > > >> > > Maybe I just don't see the big deal here, but the developers owe you >> > > nothing. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 20:11:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59CD16A4CF for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:11:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2AD43D2F for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:11:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-83-77.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.83.77] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C976d-0000i7-75; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:12:16 -0500 Message-ID: <015c01c49e84$d2a273b0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: "Peter Kieser" References: <010801c49dee$72cc5eb0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg><1095546154.671.6.camel@elemental.DashEvil><010e01c49df0$a5b79400$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg><20040919055918.A5844@server1.ultratrends.com> <014d01c49e72$05fcf220$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <003f01c49e74$6b444e10$bb01a8c0@hartkiem2nnl7x> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:11:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:11:23 -0000 KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS OS IS NOT RELEASED YET AND IT OBEYS THE LICENSE COMPLETELY. STOP MAKING FALSE CLAIMS AGAINST ME. TO MAKE CLAIMS LIKE THIS AGAINST ME IS COMPLETELY FOOLISH. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Kieser" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > You are breaking licensing terms with "your" HawkinsOS. > > I'd probably like to point out the fact that this is more then starting a > "war" with the FreeBSD developers, but going much farther then that. > > Be advised that significant portions of FreeBSD were released under licenses > that include terms other then the BSD License, and that you must follow if > you want to advertise your OS. > > -- > Peter Kieser > Home: 604.338.9294 / Email: pfak@telus.net > // "Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow." // > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Technical Director" > Cc: ; ; > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > > > > Ok, I just wanted an answer and I already got a *few* good answers and I > > DONT WANT A WAR. > > > > Yes, HawkinsOS is FreeBSD 5.x based and the goal is to donate back to the > > community, but this is irrelevant! The questions were not even over > > HawkinsOS. > > > > Let's all refrain from starting a huge arguement I have already received > > my > > answers. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Technical Director" > > To: > > Cc: ; ; > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:13 AM > > Subject: Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > > > > > >> > >> Err, maybe you should use ... HawkinsOS??? > >> > >> T.J.HAWKINS Secure, Stable, Supported Operating System... > >> > >> I really enjoyed that. > >> > >> Maybe this inquiry is to get the developers to work out HawkinsOS, > >> whatever version of FreeBSD you sed'd s/FreeBSD/HawkinsOS/g, problems > >> with multi-threading? > >> > >> My troll addition. > >> > >> PS > >> > >> Your site says you are a Programmer, providing proof of concepts for what > >> you are discussing shouldn't be to hard. > >> > >> *** > >> > >> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > >> > >> > Your taking it the wrong way, I was simply asking a question to the > >> > developers to confirm this. > >> > > >> > I have standardized on FreeBSD. > >> > > >> > I apologized if I made it seem like I was trolling, not my intention. > >> > > >> > If a business were to standardize on FreeBSD, they would love to know > >> > if > > the > >> > multithreading issues would be fixed completely correctly not just > >> > 'work-arounds'. > >> > > >> > > >> > sorry and thanks > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Chris Laverdure" > >> > To: > >> > Cc: ; ; > >> > > >> > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:22 PM > >> > Subject: Re: Please explain. > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 02:14, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > >> > > > Ask the FreeBSD developers, any of them with honesty should tell > >> > > > you > > or > >> > > > proof me false. I dare you to proof this false, I would be so happy > > if > >> > you > >> > > > did. Just because I'm using MS Mailer does not reflect whom I am. I > > have > >> > > > only 1 MS workstation with 9 others unix. > >> > > > > >> > > > I expected a mature response from most of you, calling names is NOT > > the > >> > way > >> > > > to resolve problems. I just want an answer to see if this is true. > >> > > > > >> > > > **Is it true**? This is what I've noticed myself and many > >> > > > high-scale > >> > > > developers. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thank you > >> > > > >> > > 1) The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. > >> > > > >> > > 2) Calling a troll on being a troll is mature. > >> > > > >> > > 3) If you believe it to be true, then don't use FreeBSD. Nobody is > > tying > >> > > your hands here. You believe DragonFlyBSD to be superior? Then use > >> > > it. > >> > > > >> > > Maybe I just don't see the big deal here, but the developers owe you > >> > > nothing. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > >> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > >> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >> > > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 20:20:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1700B16A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:20:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from redqueen.elvandar.org (cust.94.120.adsl.cistron.nl [195.64.94.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5697C43D58 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:20:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@elvandar.org) Received: from [10.0.2.122] (nimrod.elvandar.intranet [10.0.2.122]) by redqueen.elvandar.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A9710685E; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:20:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <414DE9F2.5060502@elvandar.org> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:20:02 +0200 From: Remko Lodder X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: timh@tjhawkins.com References: <015c01c49e84$d2a273b0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> In-Reply-To: <015c01c49e84$d2a273b0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at elvandar.org cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:20:07 -0000 timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS OS IS NOT RELEASED YET AND IT OBEYS THE LICENSE > COMPLETELY. > > STOP MAKING FALSE CLAIMS AGAINST ME. TO MAKE CLAIMS LIKE THIS AGAINST ME IS > COMPLETELY FOOLISH. > > > It's a good thing to start considering that at this moment then. Also i would prefer it if you don't shout to us. You already are biatching against us (FreeBSD people) and if you start shouting as well it will only make it worse. Please check your licenses and update them accordingly to reflect the actual licenses so that you don't break anything and don't get any problems. (No i am not harassing you, just giving you a tip that is worth following in your OS and on your site). -- Kind regards, Remko Lodder |remko@elvandar.org Reporter DSINet |remko@dsinet.org Projectleader Mostly-Harmless |remko@mostly-harmless.nl From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 20:42:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A544516A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:42:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4863643D54 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:42:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-83-77.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.83.77] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C97aT-0003nX-T1; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:43:06 -0500 Message-ID: <017e01c49e89$21d06470$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: "Remko Lodder" References: <015c01c49e84$d2a273b0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <414DE9F2.5060502@elvandar.org> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:41:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:42:11 -0000 lol. This OS carries the BSD license if you didn't know that. People are just trying to start stuff. I do apologize for shouting, I've been getting alot of hatred messages personally.. which is distrubing me.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Remko Lodder" To: Cc: "Peter Kieser" ; Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS OS IS NOT RELEASED YET AND IT OBEYS THE LICENSE > > COMPLETELY. > > > > STOP MAKING FALSE CLAIMS AGAINST ME. TO MAKE CLAIMS LIKE THIS AGAINST ME IS > > COMPLETELY FOOLISH. > > > > > > > > It's a good thing to start considering that at this moment then. > Also i would prefer it if you don't shout to us. You already > are biatching against us (FreeBSD people) and if you start shouting > as well it will only make it worse. > > Please check your licenses and update them accordingly to reflect > the actual licenses so that you don't break anything and don't get > any problems. (No i am not harassing you, just giving you a tip that > is worth following in your OS and on your site). > > > -- > Kind regards, > > Remko Lodder |remko@elvandar.org > Reporter DSINet |remko@dsinet.org > Projectleader Mostly-Harmless |remko@mostly-harmless.nl > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 20:45:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB11716A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:45:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts20.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E85343D55 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:45:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dashevil@sympatico.ca) Received: from [192.168.2.32] ([67.68.38.73]) by tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net ESMTP <20040919204518.JWEP19123.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@[192.168.2.32]>; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:45:18 -0400 From: Chris Laverdure To: timh@tjhawkins.com In-Reply-To: <017e01c49e89$21d06470$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> References: <015c01c49e84$d2a273b0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <414DE9F2.5060502@elvandar.org> <017e01c49e89$21d06470$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095612318.673.1.camel@elemental.DashEvil> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:45:18 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:45:20 -0000 On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 20:41, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > lol. This OS carries the BSD license if you didn't know that. People are > just trying to start stuff. --INCASE YOU MISSED IT: Peter Kieser gave the following tip -- Be advised that significant portions of FreeBSD were released under licenses that include terms other then the BSD License, and that you must follow if you want to advertise your OS. ----------------------- > > I do apologize for shouting, I've been getting alot of hatred messages > personally.. which is distrubing me.. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Remko Lodder" > To: > Cc: "Peter Kieser" ; > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > > > > timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > > KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS OS IS NOT RELEASED YET AND IT OBEYS THE LICENSE > > > COMPLETELY. > > > > > > STOP MAKING FALSE CLAIMS AGAINST ME. TO MAKE CLAIMS LIKE THIS AGAINST ME > IS > > > COMPLETELY FOOLISH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a good thing to start considering that at this moment then. > > Also i would prefer it if you don't shout to us. You already > > are biatching against us (FreeBSD people) and if you start shouting > > as well it will only make it worse. > > > > Please check your licenses and update them accordingly to reflect > > the actual licenses so that you don't break anything and don't get > > any problems. (No i am not harassing you, just giving you a tip that > > is worth following in your OS and on your site). > > > > > > -- > > Kind regards, > > > > Remko Lodder |remko@elvandar.org > > Reporter DSINet |remko@dsinet.org > > Projectleader Mostly-Harmless |remko@mostly-harmless.nl > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 20:48:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A1516A4CE; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:48:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859C943D46; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:48:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-83-77.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.83.77] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C97gd-0004Sc-1k; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:49:27 -0500 Message-ID: <018b01c49e8a$04fb73c0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: "Julian Elischer" References: <00d001c49dd4$7382dc40$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <414D365E.2030200@elischer.org> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:48:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: cc: smp@freebsd.org cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please explain. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:48:35 -0000 My question regarding the 2 extremely major flaws in FreeBSD are being addressed as I have learned from mature FreeBSD developers, due to my question. Therefore many linux-fanatics who are focussed on an only-linux world will no longer be able to use this issue. These two stop-gap items will be at the forefront of the work for the next year, along with a major move to start removing the BGL (Big Giant Lock, also known as the MP lock) from code inherited from 4.x ...that is the one mentioned on dragonfly page too Regarding the people who e-mailed me regarding mySQL on FreeBSD just Google it: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=performance+freebsd+mysql ..as you can see there are issues but they are being solved. Furthermore... This age actually tells me that my assertions are true regarding freeBSD's problems: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/5-roadmap/article.html This page also explains to me that these problems will be completely fixed and that once FreeBSD 5.x is completely finished and stable that It will be the best choice in operating systems. I knew I wasn't trolling, but too many people sent me horrible hatred messages. Furthermore: HawkinsOS is a modified FreeBSD 5.x that retains the BSD license and continues to give credit to the FreeBSD group, as well as once this project is started will donate to the organization... So why would so many people from so many lists say I'm doing illegal licesing things, etc.? It also retains complete compatibilty to FreeBSD, which I've made sure to help the FreeBSD project, as this is one issue where linux has been successful. I'm a FreeBSD fan and I always will be and I'm glade this issues are being taken care of and I understand the money wasn't there like it was for Linux. Please do not get the idea that I was trying to harass and troll. I'm certainly glade we got that all taken care of. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Elischer" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 2:33 AM Subject: Re: Please explain. > timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > 2 Major Issues: > > > > - FreeBSD has a processor affinity design issue > > > thanks for the non combatative and diplomatically styled message? > > > > > - The core kernel issues with FreeBSD is the horrible threading > > support.There is so much crap in FreeBSD kernel. The multithreading issue in > > freebsd has been delayed for nearly 6 years. They have just made work > > arounds, not fixing the actual problem. It seems that the only real BSD that > > has made big progress on the core issues is DragonflyBSD. > > Dragonfly BSD is a branch of freeBSD that we are all watching with great > interest. The advantage that is available there is the decision to go back > to teh drawing board and start from scratch, thereby breaking a lot, in the > hope of being able to fix it again when teh parts afe all completed. It > is a very interesting experiment and as such, FreeBSD developers in general > are watching with interest. > > > > > It appears that FreeBSD have a clear Multi-threading lock-in issue that > > needs to be fixed. Not work arounds. According to many freebsd developers > > nobody simply wants to fix this, is it true that the current smp work are > > just 'work-arounds' not real fixing? > > Well if you could explain yourself in English I'd have more of a chance > of answering your questions. The big challenge with FreeBSD and MP is that > we have to get from a "here" (where there was no MP at all) the a "there" > (where there is), while having every step of the way between being a runnable > stable (within reason) system. This greatly limits how things are done. > The current SMP work is not just "workarounds" but rather steps needed > to get from A to B. Sometimes you can't see what the final picture is > by looking at an intermediate step in isolation. > > > > > The only thing holding FreeBSD back is the Multithreading issue. > > I wish you would explain this statement. It could be interpretted in so > many ways that it really is almost meaningless. (Some of the interpretatiosn > however are not..) > > > > > Please clarify this. > > Sure.. how about you clarify your question first however. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-smp@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-smp > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-smp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 19 21:01:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910C616A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:01:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D679D43D39 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:01:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-83-77.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.83.77] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C97sw-0005Yh-AP; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:02:11 -0500 Message-ID: <019e01c49e8b$cbea28e0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: "Chris Laverdure" References: <015c01c49e84$d2a273b0$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <414DE9F2.5060502@elvandar.org> <017e01c49e89$21d06470$6401a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <1095612318.673.1.camel@elemental.DashEvil> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:01:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:01:16 -0000 I understand this completely... I've known this for a long time now, sorry if my messages seemed misleading. Thanks for the tips. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laverdure" To: Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 20:41, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > lol. This OS carries the BSD license if you didn't know that. People are > > just trying to start stuff. > > --INCASE YOU MISSED IT: Peter Kieser gave the following tip -- > Be advised that significant portions of FreeBSD were released under > licenses > that include terms other then the BSD License, and that you must follow > if > you want to advertise your OS. > ----------------------- > > > > I do apologize for shouting, I've been getting alot of hatred messages > > personally.. which is distrubing me.. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Remko Lodder" > > To: > > Cc: "Peter Kieser" ; > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:20 PM > > Subject: Re: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) > > > > > > > timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > > > > KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS OS IS NOT RELEASED YET AND IT OBEYS THE LICENSE > > > > COMPLETELY. > > > > > > > > STOP MAKING FALSE CLAIMS AGAINST ME. TO MAKE CLAIMS LIKE THIS AGAINST ME > > IS > > > > COMPLETELY FOOLISH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a good thing to start considering that at this moment then. > > > Also i would prefer it if you don't shout to us. You already > > > are biatching against us (FreeBSD people) and if you start shouting > > > as well it will only make it worse. > > > > > > Please check your licenses and update them accordingly to reflect > > > the actual licenses so that you don't break anything and don't get > > > any problems. (No i am not harassing you, just giving you a tip that > > > is worth following in your OS and on your site). > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > Remko Lodder |remko@elvandar.org > > > Reporter DSINet |remko@dsinet.org > > > Projectleader Mostly-Harmless |remko@mostly-harmless.nl > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 20 01:47:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25E716A4CF for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:47:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744D943D48 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:47:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cpressey@catseye.mine.nu) Received: from catseye.biscuit.boo ([154.20.76.195]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.netSMTP <20040920014728.SMIC4829.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@catseye.biscuit.boo> for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:47:28 -0600 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:48:25 -0700 From: Chris Pressey To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040919184825.34bbf159.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> Organization: Cat's Eye Technologies X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.12 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Since the question has come up... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:47:30 -0000 What *is* the definition of "advertising" as intended by the "no-advertising" clause? According to dictionary.reference.com, an advertisement is: "2. A notice, such as a poster or a paid announcement in the print, broadcast, or electronic media, designed to attract public attention or patronage." Not to troll, of course, but it seems very arguable that the front page of www.freebsd.org falls under this definition. It also unquestionably *reads* like an advertisment, touting reasons to use it and so forth. I looked under the 'legal' link but only the FreeBSD, BSD, and GNU public licenses are given. Even disregarding the "no-advertising clause", and going solely on clause #2, I was sort of expecting to find a list of all "reproductions of the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer", so to speak, on the 'legal' page. Have all these copyright notices been lumped together into "Copyright 1994-2004 The FreeBSD Project"? Is there legal grounds for this? Did the individual copyright holders consent to having their names removed? What about where the disclaimers and lists of conditions differ (even slightly - for example is there any MIT-licensed code in the tree?) Lacking a comprehensive summary of all licenses, it might be a good idea to have a link on the 'legal' page pointing to the CVSWeb interface, saying that the license specifics for each specific component of the system are buried in there somewhere. In other words, a release CD image might be a "binary distribution", but CVSWeb is a "material provided with the distribution", or something along those lines, which seems like better legal ground to me (disclaimer: IANAL) Again, I'm really really not trying to troll here, and if it comes off that way, I apologize. I genuinely am interested to know what the answers to these questions are, because I think this is potentially an important issue for advocacy purposes (since most posters, brochures, pamphlets etc, could easily be considered advertising.) -Chris From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 20 02:46:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50C1A16A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:46:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vsmtp1.tin.it (vsmtp1.tin.it [212.216.176.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEF8343D1D for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:46:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (82.48.221.150) by vsmtp1.tin.it (7.0.027) id 414B11F2000C58FE; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 04:46:12 +0200 Message-ID: <004901c49ebc$03f22e60$80dffea9@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:46:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: timh@tjhawkins.com cc: gnustep-dev@gnu.org Subject: SUPERstep - please evaluate HawkinsOS as a potential standard base, useful for developing the GNUstep standard API for multi purposes, extremely flexible machines X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:46:13 -0000 Salve. GNUstep is going on, towards a highly standardized framework, useful to developing or porting existing C - C** - ObjectiveC applications on a FreeBSD base, which is actually the most stable and orthodox unix ever. Moreover, the project of aiming to evaluate portings and paid projects, could make HawkingOS a point of reference for technicians looking fot fast new development on WORKSTATION or SERVER products. The flexibility would be total, permitting a visual configuration of both SERVER functions and WORKSTATION ones. I have designed in my mind a sort of roadmap. I insist on GNUstep, because it is independent from unnecessary desktop environmentes or complicate widget libraries, even if actual desktop environments are still much more rich of precompiled stuff. In fact, they urpgrade and modify too much, causing the lack of a standard environment dedicated to serious development of professional apps. The base of GNUstep is much more logical, if dedicated to FreeBSD instead to the infinite Linux variants, therefore the work could be managed in a FreeBSD-like hierarchical way. The important results may be seen relatively fast, when on Linux they could instead fall into a labyrinth of endless modifications. This could be a serious base to grow up step-by-step the ne new unix-step-system, interesting startpoint for new users of any kind. As for myself, I would gladly send contributions to the GNUstep community, in order to request development for porting or designing specific apps I need. As example, I'll need drivers with GUI for AARDWARK's insulated audio high-end boards, Aark24 and DirectPro24/96. It is absurd such engineered boards run only on Windoze-trash. There are also high-end video adapters for advanced CAD, waiting for their drivers and GUI frontends. What's better than offering a speed-standard-GUI, GNUstep-based for them? Customizazion of GNUstep look should be grow up only when a strong base will be already distributable. I'm looking for enthusiasts and perfectionists of any skill, in order to design the base project for a FreeBSD-based 'SUPERstep' packed systems, working out-of -the-box. The starting point will be based on volounteers, with the addition of a service for customers interested in a specific custom subproject, which should require a billing service. The licenses' management would require an expert dedicated to it. PLEASE, do not start an endless discussions. I'm only looking for people interested in technology, architecture, development, commerce, advertising. 'Advocacy' is an important circle for discussions about strategic projects. With my best regards VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 20 18:01:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F080E16A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:01:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9291643D53 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:01:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch01.acuson.com ([157.226.230.208]:2378) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1C9STq-0007Wa-3m; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:01:38 -0700 Received: by mvaexch01.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:58:29 -0700 Message-ID: From: Johnson David To: "'timh@tjhawkins.com'" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:58:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: [Freebsd-advocacy] Re: Please explain. (What is HawkinsOS?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:01:40 -0000 It's been almost a day since this thread fizzled out, but I think there is an important lesson in it. Therefore I'm making this reply. timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > ... > I do apologize for shouting, I've been getting alot of hatred messages > personally.. which is distrubing me.. You are getting a lot of personal negative responses because you trolled these lists. It is obvious you do not consider yourself a troll. But even though you did not intend to troll, you did anyway. Please take ten long slow breaths and then reread your original post from an objective viewpoint. You make several unsubstantiated assertions in a confrontational style, and your only actual question was itself merely a restatement of a previous unsubstantiated assertion. Then you cross posted it to three lists, one of which (this one) was so clearly off topic that all doubts of trolling were dispelled. In case you still can't see it, here are selected phrases from your original post: "horrible", "so much crap", "work-arounds". Your other replies included additional loaded phrasing. You even called into question the honesty of your responders! It is no surprise to anyone but you that people are taking this personally. I would suggest the next time you ask a question, to phrase it in a polite and non-confrontational manner. Do not cross-post it. Do not respond to replies with "I dare you to proof this false". Do not take it personally when people disagree with your core assumptions. There will be some people who will not forget your attacks here. YBut you still have a chance to redeem your reputation to others. But it will take time and it will require an extra degree of civility. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 20 21:39:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2326716A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:39:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [168.103.84.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B94F43D39 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:39:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by harmony.village.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KLcAMg067375 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:38:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20040920.153910.27149419.imp@bsdimp.com> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <200409201323.15634.jhb@FreeBSD.org> References: <200409201323.15634.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Since the question has come up... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:39:21 -0000 : What *is* the definition of "advertising" as intended by the : "no-advertising" clause? There's a legal definition of advertising, which is likely the one that should be gone with. It is somewhat vague, and you'll likely get a lot of feedback on this. I'm not qualified to render a legal opinion. : Have all these copyright notices been lumped together into "Copyright : 1994-2004 The FreeBSD Project"? Is there legal grounds for this? Did : the individual copyright holders consent to having their names removed? : What about where the disclaimers and lists of conditions differ (even : slightly - for example is there any MIT-licensed code in the tree?) Short answer: No. N/A. N/A. N/A Long answer: I'm not a lawyer, and the below should be reguarded as a layman's explaination only. The anthology copyright, found in /usr/src/COPYRIGHT, that the FreeBSD project publishes its collective work under is perfectly legal, and does not supercede anybody's rights. The FreeBSD project is saying, that as far as it is concerned, you can distribute the project's releases under very liberal terms. This does not obviate one from complying with all of the other licenses in the tree. It merely grants permission to use the agregation that the project does as an agregation. There's a concent in copyright law for an anthology copyright. If you go to a bookstore, at least in the US, and buy a book of short stories, you'll find that the whole book is copyrighted by So and So Publishing. This copyright covers the collection as a whole, as well as certain, protectable elements of how the collection is orgianized, how it is presented, etc. You'll also find that each and every short story in that book will likely have an additional copyright notice telling you the copyright for that story is owned by its author, or by some company. The indvidual stories still belong to its "author." The individual authors have allowed their work to be included in the larger anthology by granting permission to So and So Publishing to print their work (likely in return for some form of compensation). It is no different for FreeBSD. The Anthology Copyright that the project has is for the entire collection is similar to So and So Publishing's copyright above. The individual licenses that are in the tree are the permission from the copyright holders, similar to how each author in the above example gave permission to So and So Publishing to print their story in the book. The difference between the above example and FreeBSD is that the works contained in the "FreeBSD anthology" pass through permission to copy freely (for different definitions of free, depending on the software) to the end user. The FreeBSD anthology copyright is the permission that the project needs to grant its users to copy the anthology that is FreeBSD. However, they are not relieved from also following the licenses of the constituent parts. : Lacking a comprehensive summary of all licenses, it might be a good idea : to have a link on the 'legal' page pointing to the CVSWeb interface, : saying that the license specifics for each specific component of the : system are buried in there somewhere. In other words, a release CD : image might be a "binary distribution", but CVSWeb is a "material : provided with the distribution", or something along those lines, which : seems like better legal ground to me (disclaimer: IANAL) I think this is an excellent idea. In fact, I've been moving towards having this available. However, I've had trouble finding people to help me with the grunt work of putting this together. Volunteers are most welcome. Warner [ speaking at just Warner Losh, not in any official capacity ] From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 22 20:05:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9405416A4CF for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:05:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl (zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl [150.254.89.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C0443D31 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:05:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from r@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl) Received: from zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MK9Y6a054678 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:09:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from r@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl) Received: (from r@localhost) by zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i8MK9Ygu054677 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:09:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from r) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:09:34 +0200 From: =?utf-8?Q?Bart=C5=82omiej?= Rutkowski To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040922200934.GA54662@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:05:52 -0000 Hi, I am strongly interested in submitting some freebsd-themed wallpapers, but also i want to know if there is any chance for them to became 'official' in some way (included in incoming freebsd distro or something) by freebsd dev team, but I dont know any person which is responsible for such things in fbsd dev team to ask about it - amybe somebody here knows, and may help me? Here`s sample of my work dedicated to freebsd 5.3, hopy you like it (of course this can look much better, if only I will sure, that is is worth my work): http://zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl/~r/freebsd53.png Best regards, r. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 22 20:30:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA03B16A4D2 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:30:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts10.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F364A43D48 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:30:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dashevil@sympatico.ca) Received: from [192.168.2.32] ([67.68.38.73]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net ESMTP <20040922203036.JGQE29920.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@[192.168.2.32]>; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:30:36 -0400 From: Chris Laverdure To: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Bart=B3omiej?= Rutkowski In-Reply-To: <20040922200934.GA54662@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl> References: <20040922200934.GA54662@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Message-Id: <1095870631.659.5.camel@elemental.DashEvil> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:30:32 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:30:37 -0000 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 20:09, Bart³omiej Rutkowski wrote: > Hi, > > I am strongly interested in submitting some freebsd-themed wallpapers, > but also i want to know if there is any chance for them to became 'official' > in some way (included in incoming freebsd distro or something) by freebsd dev team, > but I dont know any person which is responsible for such things in fbsd dev team to ask > about it - amybe somebody here knows, and may help me? > > Here`s sample of my work dedicated to freebsd 5.3, hopy you like it (of course this can look > much better, if only I will sure, that is is worth my work): > http://zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl/~r/freebsd53.png > > Best regards, r. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Very nice wallpaper, but may I make one suggestion? Omit the minor version number. Your wallpaper will expire in usefulness after ~6 months and if the FreeBSD team does make it official, I doubt you'd want to place the stress on them to make a new image redundantly every 6 months. That is, of course, unless you think something new and creative like what OpenBSD does would be doable. Regardless, it is extremely nice and is placed in high consideration for being my wallpaper for a nice half a year. :) From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 22 20:31:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2906716A4CE for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:31:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEAED43D2D for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:31:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8MKFgnQ014932; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i8MKFgjA014931; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matto) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:15:42 -0700 From: Matt Olander To: Bartlomiej Rutkowski Message-ID: <20040922131542.A13657@knight.ixsystems.net> References: <20040922200934.GA54662@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040922200934.GA54662@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl>; from r@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl on Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:09:34PM +0200 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:31:55 -0000 On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:09:34PM +0200, Bartlomiej Rutkowski wrote: > I am strongly interested in submitting some freebsd-themed wallpapers, > but also i want to know if there is any chance for them to became 'official' > in some way (included in incoming freebsd distro or something) by freebsd dev team, > but I dont know any person which is responsible for such things in fbsd dev team to ask > about it - amybe somebody here knows, and may help me? > > Here`s sample of my work dedicated to freebsd 5.3, hopy you like it (of course this can look > much better, if only I will sure, that is is worth my work): > http://zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl/~r/freebsd53.png hi Bartlomiej, wow, that looks really nice. I've set it as my wallpaper on fluxbox and it looks very good ;) do you have any more? as for inclusion, you might want to submit it to the kde-freebsd or gnome-freebsd teams. cheers, -matt -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 22 21:23:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9E016A4CE for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:23:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hal.9trackmind.com (hal.ringranger.com [205.150.75.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A7B43D2F for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:23:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mit@mitayai.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7C3C4DF; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hal.9trackmind.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hal.9trackmind.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 84364-03; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 7A9BD4D7; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.10.13] (CPE0050ba2aad99-CM000a739a2424.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.195.74.9]) by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB1E4FF; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4151ED36.9070009@mitayai.org> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:23:02 -0400 From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: iamkmaniam@verizon.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at 9trackmind.com cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8365 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: mitayai@ca.freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:23:00 -0000 I would like to call your attention to an inaccuracy in your news article, where you state: You have an array of Linux flavors to choose from. Redhat, SUSE, Mandrake, Debian, FreeBSD and about 100 plus others to pick from" FreeBSD is not a Linux distribution, and is derived from a rewrite of the 4.4BSD code, not the made-from-scratch Linux. What you may be confusing is UNIX vs Linux. Linux is a type of UNIX, as are the many kinds of BSD. If you have any questions about this, i'd be happy to help clarify. Regards, Mit From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 22 21:29:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B42B16A4CE for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:29:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hal.9trackmind.com (hal.ringranger.com [205.150.75.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AC943D45 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:29:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mit@mitayai.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20560467 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:30:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hal.9trackmind.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hal.9trackmind.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 84391-03 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 594B8461; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.10.13] (CPE0050ba2aad99-CM000a739a2424.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.195.74.9]) by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B60C35E for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4151EEB0.1070306@mitayai.org> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:29:20 -0400 From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at 9trackmind.com Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Re: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8365" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8365" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: [Fwd: Re: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8365] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:29:17 -0000 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mit@mitayai.org Delivered-To: mit@mitayai.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4515E4C9 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:28:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hal.9trackmind.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hal.9trackmind.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 84364-04 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id EF22D461; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D4B35E for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([141.158.236.207]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040922212715.XCOL24490.out014.verizon.net@[192.168.1.100]> for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:27:15 -0500 Subject: Re: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8365 From: Kevin Russo To: mitayai@ca.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4151ED36.9070009@mitayai.org> References: <4151ED36.9070009@mitayai.org> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095888429.8187.3.camel@Russo1> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:27:09 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [141.158.236.207] at Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:27:15 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at 9trackmind.com Yes you are correct it was an oversight on my part. I apologize On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 17:23, Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe wrote: > I would like to call your attention to an inaccuracy in your news article, > > where you state: > > You have an array of Linux flavors to choose from. Redhat, SUSE, > Mandrake, Debian, FreeBSD and about 100 plus others to pick from" > > FreeBSD is not a Linux distribution, and is derived from a rewrite of > the 4.4BSD code, not the made-from-scratch Linux. > > What you may be confusing is UNIX vs Linux. Linux is a type of UNIX, as > are the many kinds of BSD. > > If you have any questions about this, i'd be happy to help clarify. > > Regards, > Mit -- The knowing of why is not equal to the sum of the experience. Powered by the penguin. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 22 21:50:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA4916A503 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:50:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0297F43D49 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:50:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists@markemmanuel.org) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (adsl-68-72-101-215.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net [68.72.101.215])i8MLoTJx038226; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:50:32 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <20040922200934.GA54662@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl> References: <20040922200934.GA54662@zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Message-Id: <6AFD8308-0CE1-11D9-ADEF-003065B71C66@markemmanuel.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: markemmanuel Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:50:28 -0500 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Bart=C5=82omiej_Rutkowski?= , Freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Subject: Re: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:50:33 -0000 I love the wallpaper! If it weren't for the version number it'd be my=20 wallpaper on my other box. Heck, this can be turned into a shirt I'd=20 wear. :) --mark-- On Sep 22, 2004, at 3:09 PM, Bart=C5=82omiej Rutkowski wrote: > Hi, > > I am strongly interested in submitting some freebsd-themed wallpapers, > but also i want to know if there is any chance for them to became=20 > 'official' > in some way (included in incoming freebsd distro or something) by=20 > freebsd dev team, > but I dont know any person which is responsible for such things in=20 > fbsd dev team to ask > about it - amybe somebody here knows, and may help me? > > Here`s sample of my work dedicated to freebsd 5.3, hopy you like it=20 > (of course this can look > much better, if only I will sure, that is is worth my work): > http://zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl/~r/freebsd53.png > > Best regards, r. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to=20 > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > --markemmanuel ___________________t_h_e_w_o_l_f_p_u_p_._c_o_m_. Markemmanuel F. Rodriguez http://www.thewolfpup.com/ ________________________________________________________. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 23 04:43:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A41C16A4CE for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:43:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web53207.mail.yahoo.com (web53207.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C164A43D31 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:43:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jasonosgerby@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040923040622.64952.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.29.69.29] by web53207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:06:22 PDT Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:06:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Osgerby To: Freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <6AFD8308-0CE1-11D9-ADEF-003065B71C66@markemmanuel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Re: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:43:28 -0000 Agreed, this an excellent wallpaper - kudos! Can't we get an area on the main FreeBSD website for user created official FreeBSD wallpapers? It makes for great free advertising, after all. Jason. markemmanuel wrote: I love the wallpaper! If it weren't for the version number it'd be my wallpaper on my other box. Heck, this can be turned into a shirt I'd wear. :) --mark-- On Sep 22, 2004, at 3:09 PM, BartÅ‚omiej Rutkowski wrote: > Hi, > > I am strongly interested in submitting some freebsd-themed wallpapers, > but also i want to know if there is any chance for them to became > 'official' > in some way (included in incoming freebsd distro or something) by > freebsd dev team, > but I dont know any person which is responsible for such things in > fbsd dev team to ask > about it - amybe somebody here knows, and may help me? > > Here`s sample of my work dedicated to freebsd 5.3, hopy you like it > (of course this can look > much better, if only I will sure, that is is worth my work): > http://zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl/~r/freebsd53.png > > Best regards, r. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > --markemmanuel ___________________t_h_e_w_o_l_f_p_u_p_._c_o_m_. Markemmanuel F. Rodriguez http://www.thewolfpup.com/ ________________________________________________________. _______________________________________________ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 23 08:27:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26CA16A4CE for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:27:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hal.9trackmind.com (hal.ringranger.com [205.150.75.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5DD43D49 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:27:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mit@mitayai.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D8159B for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hal.9trackmind.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hal.9trackmind.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01564-07 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 497484FD; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.10.13] (CPE0050ba2aad99-CM000a739a2424.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.195.74.9]) by hal.9trackmind.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47DC3F5 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4152890B.9000801@mitayai.org> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:27:55 -0400 From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org References: <20040923040622.64952.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040923040622.64952.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at 9trackmind.com Subject: Re: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:27:52 -0000 Just don't forget that when using the daemon to give Marshall credit somehow... http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/mainpage/copyright.html Cheers, Mit Jason Osgerby wrote: > Agreed, this an excellent wallpaper - kudos! Can't we get an area on the main FreeBSD website for user created official FreeBSD wallpapers? It makes for great free advertising, after all. > > Jason. > > markemmanuel wrote: > I love the wallpaper! If it weren't for the version number it'd be my > wallpaper on my other box. Heck, this can be turned into a shirt I'd > wear. :) > > --mark-- > > > On Sep 22, 2004, at 3:09 PM, BartÅ‚omiej Rutkowski wrote: > > >>Hi, >> >>I am strongly interested in submitting some freebsd-themed wallpapers, >>but also i want to know if there is any chance for them to became >>'official' >>in some way (included in incoming freebsd distro or something) by >>freebsd dev team, >>but I dont know any person which is responsible for such things in >>fbsd dev team to ask >>about it - amybe somebody here knows, and may help me? >> >>Here`s sample of my work dedicated to freebsd 5.3, hopy you like it >>(of course this can look >>much better, if only I will sure, that is is worth my work): >>http://zeik.wns.amu.edu.pl/~r/freebsd53.png >> >>Best regards, r. >>_______________________________________________ >>freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >>http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >>To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>"freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> > > --markemmanuel > ___________________t_h_e_w_o_l_f_p_u_p_._c_o_m_. > Markemmanuel F. Rodriguez > http://www.thewolfpup.com/ > ________________________________________________________. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 14:24:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB37616A4CE for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:24:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38ED243D49 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:24:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-170.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.170]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OEOKex046948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:24:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:24:59 -0400 From: Tom Rhodes To: Jason Osgerby Message-Id: <20040924102459.2116f970@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20040923040622.64952.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6AFD8308-0CE1-11D9-ADEF-003065B71C66@markemmanuel.org> <20040923040622.64952.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.12 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:24:23 -0000 On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Jason Osgerby wrote: > Agreed, this an excellent wallpaper - kudos! Can't we get an area on the main FreeBSD website for user created official FreeBSD wallpapers? It makes for great free advertising, after all. Make a public request on -doc or -www and get other doc committers involved. I like the idea of having a 'FreeBSD Wallpapers' section. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 14:32:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 532B316A4E8; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:32:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from daemon.li (daemon.li [213.203.244.86]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05A743D45; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:32:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1000) by daemon.li with local; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:32:37 +0000 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:32:37 +0000 From: Josef El-Rayes To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20040924143237.GA1027@daemon.li> References: <6AFD8308-0CE1-11D9-ADEF-003065B71C66@markemmanuel.org> <20040923040622.64952.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com> <20040924102459.2116f970@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=_daemon.li-2925-1096036357-0001-2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040924102459.2116f970@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i cc: Freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:32:40 -0000 This is a MIME-formatted message. If you see this text it means that your E-mail software does not support MIME-formatted messages. --=_daemon.li-2925-1096036357-0001-2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom Rhodes : > Make a public request on -doc or -www and get other doc committers > involved. I like the idea of having a 'FreeBSD Wallpapers' section. i like this idea - i remember simon creating a subpage on freebsd.org for freebsd related artwork[1]. Wallpapers would perfectly fit there. greets, josef [1] http://www.freebsd.org/art/ --=20 Josef El-Rayes (__) Email: josef@daemon.li \\\'',)=20 Web: http://daemon.li/ \/ \ ^ FreeBSD: josef@FreeBSD.org .\._/_) --=_daemon.li-2925-1096036357-0001-2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBQVQwBFnFItmnnbU8AQItYwgAsVlawcIQHdWvBah49gLiBHs1hKlTg1qN R6DIKrAMULqv4YxG3icvrKnAW35Rt4wvz3kasxvNRXkUvErk4JqFb9eeKtTMduP5 yfp2tVh1QgZ5ZpdfmOwu4XTI0I+wLFJV7w4W1H7bpqJojqzPBn9oBZYRIfvNvCU4 TQjLuvBkSQkyYV6NO8J1mBAUoLGzqKQQ1/FN5r2lMAeire1SrE57f4LvldxujYFG Lr52ttVCgkDYTV2pcLA3yq4m/vu4DTpAm5H9TOkOMORthNK9iWIhMlYZlVaOFZjk ywiHrAzJ1Z6taIbNqzySMp8oOWTrkx7pe/9zT2gmsr2HnLBDZ7i/uQ== =P7vT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_daemon.li-2925-1096036357-0001-2-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 15:20:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7761116A4CE for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:20:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2C143D39 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:20:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-advocacy@m.gmane.org) Received: from root by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArsG-0006dl-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:20:40 +0200 Received: from 79.62-97-240.bkkb.no ([62.97.240.79]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:20:40 +0200 Received: from jakob by 79.62-97-240.bkkb.no with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:20:40 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: Jakob Breivik Grimstveit Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:01:33 +0200 Organization: BitWise Computing Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <6AFD8308-0CE1-11D9-ADEF-003065B71C66@markemmanuel.org> <20040923040622.64952.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com> <20040924102459.2116f970@localhost> <20040924143237.GA1027@daemon.li> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 79.62-97-240.bkkb.no User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2.91 (As She Crawled Across the Table) X-Face: .4qx3fwC]Zs6i@H)n4+U7@:QPR,\(Q'z[`J-C"'v:; *cy8[}d]:x,*Z6I?e8m%a~O?f1',N \1g'^='~; B3WO"RqF(tt]5<1)z%.%hqWnyM|NG}|e[zDmf=j(F*p|Tq^C#{<_FvV|P/tB4aG81S )#iIlo]%Gm<)uLyN Subject: Re: Official wallpapers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jakob@grimstveit.no List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:20:42 -0000 Josef El-Rayes wrote: > [1] http://www.freebsd.org/art/ More like -- Jakob Breivik Grimstveit, http://www.grimstveit.no/jakob, +47 48298152 Bruk newsergalleriet: http://www.grimstveit.no/newsergalleriet Treng du noko på CD?: http://www.grimstveit.no/jakob/burncd_no