From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 31 06:58:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20BD16A4CE for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 06:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clueful.shagged.org (clueful.shagged.org [212.13.201.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA9443D58 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 06:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@clueful.shagged.org) Received: from chris by clueful.shagged.org with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BUnIj-000Fqi-NW for freebsd-threads@freebsd.org; Mon, 31 May 2004 14:58:05 +0100 Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:58:05 +0100 From: Chris Elsworth To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040531135805.GA60731@shagged.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: Chris Elsworth X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: chris@clueful.shagged.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Something we overlooked with MySQL and FreeBSD vs Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 13:58:07 -0000 Sorry to drag this up again :) I would check myself, but I don't have access to a HT enabled machine with FreeBSD on it anymore to check the now-default setting of this sysctl. The last entry in UPDATING records that machdep.hlt_logical_cpus is 1, stopping user processes from using the logical CPUs. Is this still the case? I never knew about that to tweak it. I know, I should have read UPDATING. If that is still 1 as default, that might explain my 50% performance loss on FreeBSD. -- Chris From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 31 08:35:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4AF16A4CE for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 08:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2F743D2D for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 08:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i4VFZc6k012125; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Chris Elsworth In-Reply-To: <20040531135805.GA60731@shagged.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Something we overlooked with MySQL and FreeBSD vs Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 15:35:40 -0000 On Mon, 31 May 2004, Chris Elsworth wrote: > Sorry to drag this up again :) > > I would check myself, but I don't have access to a HT enabled machine > with FreeBSD on it anymore to check the now-default setting of this > sysctl. The last entry in UPDATING records that > machdep.hlt_logical_cpus is 1, stopping user processes from using the > logical CPUs. > > Is this still the case? I never knew about that to tweak it. I know, I > should have read UPDATING. > > If that is still 1 as default, that might explain my 50% performance > loss on FreeBSD. I don't either, but FreeBSD's performance on HT machines is not very good yet. I seem to recall some earlier reports of disabling HT and getting better performance. I think the kernel scheduler isn't yet tuned to handle HT well. -- DE From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 31 11:02:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5E316A4CE for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFEF43D2F for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:02:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) i4VI1pTr022787 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i4VI1o6o022782 for freebsd-threads@freebsd.org; Mon, 31 May 2004 11:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200405311801.i4VI1o6o022782@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.org Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:02:22 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/06/13] kern/19247 threads uthread_sigaction.c does not do anything s [2004/03/15] kern/64313 threads FreeBSD (OpenBSD) pthread implicit set/un o [2004/04/22] threads/65883threads libkse's sigwait does not work after fork 3 problems total. Serious problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/07/18] kern/20016 threads pthreads: Cannot set scheduling timer/Can o [2000/08/26] misc/20861 threads libc_r does not honor socket timeouts o [2001/01/19] bin/24472 threads libc_r does not honor SO_SNDTIMEO/SO_RCVT o [2001/01/25] bin/24632 threads libc_r delicate deviation from libc in ha o [2001/01/25] misc/24641 threads pthread_rwlock_rdlock can deadlock o [2001/11/26] bin/32295 threads pthread dont dequeue signals o [2002/02/01] i386/34536 threads accept() blocks other threads o [2002/05/25] kern/38549 threads the procces compiled whith pthread stoppe o [2002/06/27] bin/39922 threads [PATCH?] Threaded applications executed w o [2002/08/04] misc/41331 threads Pthread library open sets O_NONBLOCK flag o [2003/03/02] bin/48856 threads Setting SIGCHLD to SIG_IGN still leaves z o [2003/03/10] bin/49087 threads Signals lost in programs linked with libc a [2003/04/08] bin/50733 threads buildworld won't build, because of linkin o [2003/05/07] bin/51949 threads thread in accept cannot be cancelled 14 problems total. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/05/25] misc/18824 threads gethostbyname is not thread safe o [2000/10/21] misc/22190 threads A threaded read(2) from a socketpair(2) f o [2001/09/09] bin/30464 threads pthread mutex attributes -- pshared o [2002/05/02] bin/37676 threads libc_r: msgsnd(), msgrcv(), pread(), pwri s [2002/07/16] misc/40671 threads pthread_cancel doesn't remove thread from 5 problems total. From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 31 13:19:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA52816A4CE for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5A143D48 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:19:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom.hurst@clara.net) Received: from voi.aagh.net ([81.104.55.176]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040531201858.WOMQ5696.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@voi.aagh.net> for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 21:18:58 +0100 Received: from freaky by voi.aagh.net with local (Exim 4.34; FreeBSD) id 1BUtF5-0009ch-K7 for freebsd-threads@freebsd.org; Mon, 31 May 2004 21:18:43 +0100 Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 21:18:43 +0100 From: Thomas Hurst To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040531201843.GA36770@voi.aagh.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org References: <20040531135805.GA60731@shagged.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040531135805.GA60731@shagged.org> Organization: Not much. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: Thomas Hurst Subject: Re: Something we overlooked with MySQL and FreeBSD vs Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:19:58 -0000 * Chris Elsworth (chris@shagged.org) wrote: > I would check myself, but I don't have access to a HT enabled machine > with FreeBSD on it anymore [SNIP] That most users complaining of poor MySQL performance don't have HTT enabled CPU's would seem to suggest this isn't the issue, although I don't doubt FreeBSD HTT support is somewhat suboptimal at this point. I suspect MySQL's issues are more a factor of kernel locks than threading, tbh. Time to catch up on freebsd-smp :) -- Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst - freaky@aagh.net - http://www.aagh.net/ From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 4 05:09:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC5F16A4CE for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 05:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rms04.rommon.net (rms04.rommon.net [212.54.2.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF1B43D54 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 05:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Received: from he.iki.fi (h86.vuokselantie10.fi [193.64.42.134]) by rms04.rommon.net (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i54C9j3v085650 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 15:09:48 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Message-ID: <40C06689.1030407@he.iki.fi> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:09:45 +0300 From: Petri Helenius User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: profiled kse app X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:09:51 -0000 Is there a specific reason why -pg compiler / linker option would be incompatible with libkse on 5.2.1? I´ve an application which runs fine without profiling but when profiling is activated, it gets signal 11 in a few seconds after start. Pete From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 4 18:48:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369BE16A4CE; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D2243D46; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:48:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68600FD1D6; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18960-01; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 994C3FD1D5; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:47:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org, freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086400049.19812.4.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:47:29 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com Subject: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 01:48:05 -0000 I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and everything else are just fine now. I'm wondering now if I can build db41 with the pthread library again. It shouldn't really be built with pthread as a dependency anyway, but it causes crashes in bash on amd64 with nss_ldap. I believe all the amd64 crashes to be related to signal handling. If there are any tests or additional things I can do to assist in fixing this please let me know. Sean From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 4 21:06:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE78716A4CE; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 21:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D65643D48; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 21:06:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i5546CtD016405; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 00:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 00:06:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086400049.19812.4.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 04:06:34 -0000 On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > everything else are just fine now. How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled in by libraries still linked to it. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 4 21:21:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA73E16A4CE; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 21:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF2343D55; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 21:21:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D584FD03A; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 21:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00677-03; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 21:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC3BFD031; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 21:20:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Daniel Eischen In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086409253.1525.11.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 21:20:53 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 04:21:38 -0000 On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 21:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > > everything else are just fine now. > > How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf > to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled > in by libraries still linked to it. This is a completely rebuilt machine from a working i386 install that has tracked -current forever. There is absolutely nothing that is compiled and pointing to libc_r. I use to have libmap.conf point as follows: libpthread.so libpthread.so libpthread.so.1 libpthread.so.1 With this, gnome-terminal will crash constantly. I normally have 2 windows with 4 tabs each running. It crashes when I log in and they crash at odd times when I try to start a new one from either nautilus menu or panel button. With libmap.conf set to libpthread.so.1 libc_r.so.5 gnome-terminal works as it is suppose to. No crashes at all. Firefox is the only thing I have trouble with now - it crashes when I type in a character to the google search text widget. This was the behavior with kse before, so it is probably not thread related. libpthread is broken somewhere on amd64. Or it is possible that kse is uncovering an issue with something else. I frankly do not trust libreadline. It doesn't seem to work well with pthreads. I noticed several warnings when doing a buildworld in readline. But the bottom line is that gnome is practically unusable with all the crashes when using kse and appears quite stable with libc_r. This is with a system built entirely from -current as of today (Friday June 4). Updated ports as well. Cheers, Sean From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 07:23:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D2916A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 07:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22CF443D3F; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 07:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55EMwtD015302; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:22:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086409253.1525.11.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:23:12 -0000 On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 21:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > > > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > > > everything else are just fine now. > > > > How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf > > to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled > > in by libraries still linked to it. > > This is a completely rebuilt machine from a working i386 install that > has tracked -current forever. There is absolutely nothing that is > compiled and pointing to libc_r. Sorry, unless you have tried using libmap to map libc_r to libpthread, I don't trust that. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 08:13:46 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0AD16A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au (smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au [210.50.30.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6296943D45; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 08:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@robbins.dropbear.id.au) Received: from robbins.dropbear.id.au (210.50.112.80) by smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au (7.0.024) id 40B7A0DA0023E7C1; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 01:13:36 +1000 Received: by robbins.dropbear.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 18A3241D0; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 01:15:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 01:15:00 +1000 From: Tim Robbins To: Daniel Eischen Message-ID: <20040605151500.GA29569@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> References: <1086409253.1525.11.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: Sean McNeil cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:13:46 -0000 On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 10:22:58AM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 21:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > > > > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > > > > everything else are just fine now. > > > > > > How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf > > > to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled > > > in by libraries still linked to it. > > > > This is a completely rebuilt machine from a working i386 install that > > has tracked -current forever. There is absolutely nothing that is > > compiled and pointing to libc_r. > > Sorry, unless you have tried using libmap to map libc_r to > libpthread, I don't trust that. I can corroborate what Sean is saying. There is definitely something wrong with KSE on amd64 (I haven't tried it on i386.) I've been chasing it down, on-and-off, for about a month, but have come up with nothing so far. gnome-terminal and xmms are two examples of applications that have gone from unusable to usable after changing from libpthread to libc_r. Mozilla may also be affected, but I'm less sure of that. The applications in question just mysteriously vanish, sometimes with signal 10 or 11, sometimes with no signal in the kernel log at all. Tim From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:02:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A1616A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2B143D3F; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E256FD1D8; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06005-02; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75BF6FD1D7; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:02:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Daniel Eischen In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086451339.6274.18.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:02:20 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:02:22 -0000 On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 07:22, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 21:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > > > > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > > > > everything else are just fine now. > > > > > > How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf > > > to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled > > > in by libraries still linked to it. > > > > This is a completely rebuilt machine from a working i386 install that > > has tracked -current forever. There is absolutely nothing that is > > compiled and pointing to libc_r. > > Sorry, unless you have tried using libmap to map libc_r to > libpthread, I don't trust that. I would have to say that is extremely myopic of you. Regardless of whether you trust me or not, it doesn't change what I have reported. kse is broken in some respect on amd64. For my own assurances, I have done the following: find / -name "*.so*" -exec ldd {} \; |& grep libc_r result was /usr/lib/libc_r.so.5: /usr/lib/libc_r.so: ldd: /usr/src/lib/compat/compat22/libc_r.so.3.0.bz2.uu: not a dynamic executableldd: /usr/src/lib/compat/compat3x.i386/libc_r.so.3.gz.uu: not a dynamic executable ldd: /usr/src/lib/compat/compat3x.i386/libc_r.so.4.gz.uu: not a dynamic executable ldd: /usr/src/lib/compat/compat4x.alpha/libc_r.so.4.bz2.uu: not a dynamic executable ldd: /usr/src/lib/compat/compat4x.i386/libc_r.so.4.bz2.uu: not a dynamic executable /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64/usr/lib/libc_r.so.5: /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64/usr/lib/libc_r.so: /usr/obj/usr/src/lib/libc_r/libc_r.so: /usr/obj/usr/src/lib/libc_r/libc_r.so.5: So as I stated earlier, there is absolutely nothing on my system that is compiled and pointing to libc_r. It is my opinion that it is always better to give a person the benefit of doubt regarding a claim. What I am looking for here is something constructive in a way of suggesting things I can do to assist in tracking down the problems I have seen. Can anyone give me ideas? I'm sort of stuck with this because 1) gdb doesn't work with attaching to a process that uses kse. This makes gnome's crash dialog and reporting mechanism non-functional. 2) I've tried --disable-crash-dialog when executing an application but that doesn't seem to have an effect. The crash dialog keeps getting in my way. I need some way to get these applications to dump core so I can take a look at a backtrace. Any help in accomplishing that would be highly appreciated. Hopefully it will help in resolving the issues with kse on amd64 as well. Cheers, Sean From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:06:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5796216A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1306443D1F; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:06:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55G61tD009958; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:06:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Tim Robbins In-Reply-To: <20040605151500.GA29569@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Sean McNeil cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:06:03 -0000 On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Tim Robbins wrote: > On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 10:22:58AM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 21:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > > > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > > > > > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > > > > > everything else are just fine now. > > > > > > > > How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf > > > > to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled > > > > in by libraries still linked to it. > > > > > > This is a completely rebuilt machine from a working i386 install that > > > has tracked -current forever. There is absolutely nothing that is > > > compiled and pointing to libc_r. > > > > Sorry, unless you have tried using libmap to map libc_r to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > libpthread, I don't trust that. ^^^^^^^^^^ ??? This is the first thing that I would ask anyone to try, and it's very simple to do. Noone (or do we now spell it as 'no_one' ;-)) has said, "yes, I've done that and it doesn't help". > I can corroborate what Sean is saying. There is definitely something wrong > with KSE on amd64 (I haven't tried it on i386.) I've been chasing it down, > on-and-off, for about a month, but have come up with nothing so far. > gnome-terminal and xmms are two examples of applications that have gone > from unusable to usable after changing from libpthread to libc_r. Mozilla > may also be affected, but I'm less sure of that. The applications in > question just mysteriously vanish, sometimes with signal 10 or 11, sometimes > with no signal in the kernel log at all. Is it something recent that broke? Last I knew, libpthread was working on amd64 with mozilla & kde. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:13:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90AB16A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BDB43D1F; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:13:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55GD2tD011712; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:13:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086451339.6274.18.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:13:19 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 07:22, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 21:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > > > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > > > > > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > > > > > everything else are just fine now. > > > > > > > > How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf > > > > to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled > > > > in by libraries still linked to it. > > > > > > This is a completely rebuilt machine from a working i386 install that > > > has tracked -current forever. There is absolutely nothing that is > > > compiled and pointing to libc_r. > > > > Sorry, unless you have tried using libmap to map libc_r to > > libpthread, I don't trust that. > > I would have to say that is extremely myopic of you. Regardless of > whether you trust me or not, it doesn't change what I have reported. > kse is broken in some respect on amd64. What I ask is very reasonable. You've already used libmap.conf to map libpthread.* to libc_r. Is it that hard for you to edit the file and try it the other way around? If you want help, you should be willing to answer very simple questions such as that. Is this Gnome-specific? Has anyone been using KDE successfully? -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:16:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F43716A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1F5443D31; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55GGbtD012797; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:16:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:16:39 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > I would have to say that is extremely myopic of you. Regardless of > > whether you trust me or not, it doesn't change what I have reported. > > kse is broken in some respect on amd64. > > What I ask is very reasonable. You've already used libmap.conf > to map libpthread.* to libc_r. Is it that hard for you to edit > the file and try it the other way around? If you want help, you > should be willing to answer very simple questions such as that. I would also make sure that libkse isn't being used (either remove it from your system or use libmap.conf). I would think that trying to use libc_r and libkse together would present the same sort of problem as using libpthread and libkse together, but just to be sure... -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:17:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14EFE16A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E857743D31; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2388FD1D8; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06005-04; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA45CFD1D7; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:16:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Daniel Eischen In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086452218.6274.28.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:16:58 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: Tim Robbins cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:17:02 -0000 On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Tim Robbins wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 10:22:58AM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 21:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > > > > > > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > > > > > > everything else are just fine now. > > > > > > > > > > How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf > > > > > to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled > > > > > in by libraries still linked to it. > > > > > > > > This is a completely rebuilt machine from a working i386 install that > > > > has tracked -current forever. There is absolutely nothing that is > > > > compiled and pointing to libc_r. > > > > > > Sorry, unless you have tried using libmap to map libc_r to > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > libpthread, I don't trust that. > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > ??? > > This is the first thing that I would ask anyone to try, and it's > very simple to do. Noone (or do we now spell it as 'no_one' ;-)) > has said, "yes, I've done that and it doesn't help". I am 100% certain that I can. I must be no_one :) See my other email. I'm positive that since not a single shared object is using libc_r nor any application - I actually ran the find on all files after the email instead of just "*.so*" - adding a map of libc_r to libthread.so.1 would be a noop for me. > > I can corroborate what Sean is saying. There is definitely something wrong > > with KSE on amd64 (I haven't tried it on i386.) I've been chasing it down, > > on-and-off, for about a month, but have come up with nothing so far. > > gnome-terminal and xmms are two examples of applications that have gone > > from unusable to usable after changing from libpthread to libc_r. Mozilla > > may also be affected, but I'm less sure of that. The applications in > > question just mysteriously vanish, sometimes with signal 10 or 11, sometimes > > with no signal in the kernel log at all. > > Is it something recent that broke? Last I knew, libpthread was working > on amd64 with mozilla & kde. That I cannot tell you. I bought my amd64 about a week ago and it hasn't worked with kse. I've only managed to get everything converted about 3 days ago, so I don't have much history. I would prefer not reverting to a release to test, but that is an option if no other means of tracking down the problem presents itself. Sean From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:30:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B31916A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au (smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au [210.50.30.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C1243D2F; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@robbins.dropbear.id.au) Received: from robbins.dropbear.id.au (210.50.112.80) by smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au (7.0.024) id 40B7A0DA0024323F; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 02:29:57 +1000 Received: by robbins.dropbear.id.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1A09241D0; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 02:31:23 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 02:31:23 +1000 From: Tim Robbins To: Daniel Eischen Message-ID: <20040605163123.GA29935@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> References: <20040605151500.GA29569@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: Sean McNeil cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:30:16 -0000 On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 12:06:01PM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Tim Robbins wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 10:22:58AM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 21:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I just switched over to libc_r via. libmap.conf and I no longer get any > > > > > > mysterious crashes of applications in gnome. My gnome-terminals and > > > > > > everything else are just fine now. > > > > > > > > > > How were you using libpthread? It's best to use libmap.conf > > > > > to map everything to libpthread so that libc_r isn't pulled > > > > > in by libraries still linked to it. > > > > > > > > This is a completely rebuilt machine from a working i386 install that > > > > has tracked -current forever. There is absolutely nothing that is > > > > compiled and pointing to libc_r. > > > > > > Sorry, unless you have tried using libmap to map libc_r to > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > libpthread, I don't trust that. > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > ??? > > This is the first thing that I would ask anyone to try, and it's > very simple to do. Noone (or do we now spell it as 'no_one' ;-)) > has said, "yes, I've done that and it doesn't help". > > > I can corroborate what Sean is saying. There is definitely something wrong > > with KSE on amd64 (I haven't tried it on i386.) I've been chasing it down, > > on-and-off, for about a month, but have come up with nothing so far. > > gnome-terminal and xmms are two examples of applications that have gone > > from unusable to usable after changing from libpthread to libc_r. Mozilla > > may also be affected, but I'm less sure of that. The applications in > > question just mysteriously vanish, sometimes with signal 10 or 11, sometimes > > with no signal in the kernel log at all. > > Is it something recent that broke? Last I knew, libpthread was working > on amd64 with mozilla & kde. KDE works flawlessly. Mozilla almost works, but suffers from the "mysterious vanishing" I mentioned. If you want to reproduce the problems, either: (a) Fire up gnome-terminal, open a few new tabs, close them again, repeat until it crashes. It often takes only 2-3 invocations of "Open Tab" to make it happen. (b) Load a handful of MP3 files into XMMS, click the next/previous track buttons once every few seconds until it crashes. Everything seems to work fine if I build libpthread with SYSTEM_SCOPE_ONLY (at least it hasn't crashed so far.) My current guess is that there's a bug in context manipulation or signals. I initially thought we weren't saving enough FPU context in _amd64_save_context, but adding an fxsave in there didn't help. Tim From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:33:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F317016A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCE143D49; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:33:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18D5FFD1D6; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06189-05; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97352FD1D5; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Daniel Eischen In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086453212.96822.10.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:33:32 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:33:38 -0000 On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:16, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > > > > I would have to say that is extremely myopic of you. Regardless of > > > whether you trust me or not, it doesn't change what I have reported. > > > kse is broken in some respect on amd64. > > > > What I ask is very reasonable. You've already used libmap.conf > > to map libpthread.* to libc_r. Is it that hard for you to edit > > the file and try it the other way around? If you want help, you > > should be willing to answer very simple questions such as that. > > I would also make sure that libkse isn't being used (either > remove it from your system or use libmap.conf). I would think > that trying to use libc_r and libkse together would present > the same sort of problem as using libpthread and libkse > together, but just to be sure... There hasn't been a libkse on my system in a very long time. Just to make sure, I have searched the whole computer and it was not found. Also, I have done the libmap.conf of libc_r: libc_r.so.5 libpthread.so.1 libc_r.so libpthread.so.1 I can now claim that I am no_one without a doubt. I got the same failures as before. With regards to gnome-specific or if KDE has the same issue, I cannot answer. I do not use KDE. It would appear to be gnome-specific (gtk-specific?). Emacs has never given me any problems, but neither has nautilus, the panel, or a number of other gnome applications. For the moment, I highly suspect this is a pthread/readline interaction causing the crashes. Please let me know what I can do to help here. Sean From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:34:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD81F16A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DECE43D2D; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:34:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55GY4tD017771; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:34:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086452218.6274.28.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Tim Robbins cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:34:09 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:06, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > Is it something recent that broke? Last I knew, libpthread was working > > on amd64 with mozilla & kde. > > That I cannot tell you. I bought my amd64 about a week ago and it > hasn't worked with kse. I've only managed to get everything converted > about 3 days ago, so I don't have much history. I would prefer not > reverting to a release to test, but that is an option if no other means > of tracking down the problem presents itself. You don't need to revert to a release, just install KDE and see if you have similar problems. I thought that peter was running KDE and mozilla without any problems like this. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:40:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C226916A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB63643D41; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:40:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744C3FD1D6; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06005-07; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F301DFD084; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:40:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Tim Robbins In-Reply-To: <20040605163123.GA29935@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> References: <20040605151500.GA29569@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> <20040605163123.GA29935@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086453600.96822.16.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:40:00 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:40:03 -0000 On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:31, Tim Robbins wrote: > Everything seems to work fine if I build libpthread with SYSTEM_SCOPE_ONLY > (at least it hasn't crashed so far.) My current guess is that there's a > bug in context manipulation or signals. I initially thought we weren't > saving enough FPU context in _amd64_save_context, but adding an fxsave > in there didn't help. I see a problem with bash and signals too when libpthread is involved. It would core dump when I resize a window. I use nss_ldap and it was pulling in pthread through db41. I solved my issue by rebuilding db41 to eliminate pthread from the libdb41.so.1. Perhaps tracing this down would be useful? Sean From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:46:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B9516A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F4143D5C; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:46:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77034FD1D6; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06189-07; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B41FD020; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:46:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Tim Robbins In-Reply-To: <1086453600.96822.16.camel@server.mcneil.com> References: <20040605151500.GA29569@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> <20040605163123.GA29935@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> <1086453600.96822.16.camel@server.mcneil.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086453979.18813.0.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:46:19 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:46:21 -0000 On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:40, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:31, Tim Robbins wrote: > > > Everything seems to work fine if I build libpthread with SYSTEM_SCOPE_ONLY > > (at least it hasn't crashed so far.) My current guess is that there's a > > bug in context manipulation or signals. I initially thought we weren't > > saving enough FPU context in _amd64_save_context, but adding an fxsave > > in there didn't help. > > I see a problem with bash and signals too when libpthread is involved. > It would core dump when I resize a window. I use nss_ldap and it was > pulling in pthread through db41. I solved my issue by rebuilding db41 > to eliminate pthread from the libdb41.so.1. Perhaps tracing this down > would be useful? resize of bash causes error like this: #0 _thr_sig_handler (sig=28, info=0x100, ucp=0x201701904) at /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_sig.c:373 #1 0x00000002006ae9b0 in _rl_savestring () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 #2 #3 0x0000000200a822ec in read () from /lib/libc.so.5 #4 0x00000002006ab113 in rl_getc () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 #5 0x00000002006ab0c9 in rl_read_key () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 #6 0x00000002006bdeb7 in readline_internal_char () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 #7 0x00000002006be045 in readline_internal_char () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 #8 0x00000002006be060 in readline_internal_char () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 #9 0x00000002006bdc1e in readline () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 #10 0x0000000000415072 in yy_readline_get () at /usr/homes/chet/src/bash/src/parse.y:1108 #11 0x0000000000414fde in yy_getc () at /usr/homes/chet/src/bash/src/parse.y:1042 #12 0x0000000000415885 in shell_getc (remove_quoted_newline=1) at /usr/homes/chet/src/bash/src/parse.y:1803 #13 0x000000000041633e in read_token (command=0) at /usr/homes/chet/src/bash/src/parse.y:2414 #14 0x0000000000415e22 in yylex () at /usr/homes/chet/src/bash/src/parse.y:2084 #15 0x0000000000413b1a in yyparse () at /usr/local/share/bison/bison.simple:573 #16 0x00000000004138ab in parse_command () at eval.c:217 #17 0x000000000041395b in read_command () at eval.c:261 From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:51:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B196716A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7025043D5D; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55GpMtD022725; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:51:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Tim Robbins In-Reply-To: <20040605163123.GA29935@cat.robbins.dropbear.id.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Sean McNeil cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:51:33 -0000 On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Tim Robbins wrote: > On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 12:06:01PM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > Is it something recent that broke? Last I knew, libpthread was working > > on amd64 with mozilla & kde. > > KDE works flawlessly. Mozilla almost works, but suffers from the "mysterious > vanishing" I mentioned. > > If you want to reproduce the problems, either: > (a) Fire up gnome-terminal, open a few new tabs, close them again, repeat > until it crashes. It often takes only 2-3 invocations of "Open Tab" > to make it happen. > (b) Load a handful of MP3 files into XMMS, click the next/previous > track buttons once every few seconds until it crashes. > > Everything seems to work fine if I build libpthread with SYSTEM_SCOPE_ONLY > (at least it hasn't crashed so far.) My current guess is that there's a > bug in context manipulation or signals. I initially thought we weren't > saving enough FPU context in _amd64_save_context, but adding an fxsave > in there didn't help. If KDE & mozilla work, then context switching would work (unless they are specifically creating system-scope threads, but I don't think that is the case). I just ran a simple test case on sledge that created a few cpu bound threads doing FPU operations and it didn't crash. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 09:57:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110D316A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FCD43D41; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:57:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55GvetD024322; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:57:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086453212.96822.10.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:57:58 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:16, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > I would also make sure that libkse isn't being used (either > > remove it from your system or use libmap.conf). I would think > > that trying to use libc_r and libkse together would present > > the same sort of problem as using libpthread and libkse > > together, but just to be sure... > > There hasn't been a libkse on my system in a very long time. Just to > make sure, I have searched the whole computer and it was not found. > Also, I have done the libmap.conf of libc_r: > > libc_r.so.5 libpthread.so.1 > libc_r.so libpthread.so.1 > > I can now claim that I am no_one without a doubt. I got the same > failures as before. > > With regards to gnome-specific or if KDE has the same issue, I cannot > answer. I do not use KDE. It would appear to be gnome-specific > (gtk-specific?). Emacs has never given me any problems, but neither has That includes glib also, right? > nautilus, the panel, or a number of other gnome applications. > > For the moment, I highly suspect this is a pthread/readline interaction > causing the crashes. Why do you suspect that? -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 10:04:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3890B16A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD4B43D3F; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55H4btD026427; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 13:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 13:04:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086453600.96822.16.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Tim Robbins cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:04:39 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:31, Tim Robbins wrote: > > > Everything seems to work fine if I build libpthread with SYSTEM_SCOPE_ONLY > > (at least it hasn't crashed so far.) My current guess is that there's a > > bug in context manipulation or signals. I initially thought we weren't > > saving enough FPU context in _amd64_save_context, but adding an fxsave > > in there didn't help. > > I see a problem with bash and signals too when libpthread is involved. > It would core dump when I resize a window. I use nss_ldap and it was > pulling in pthread through db41. I solved my issue by rebuilding db41 > to eliminate pthread from the libdb41.so.1. Perhaps tracing this down > would be useful? Isn't that a known problem? You can't dynamically load libpthread then unload it, which is what nss_ldap was doing. I thought that was fixed so that libpthread wasn't pulled in. It could be possible that something is trying to dlopen() a library that requires libpthread, and libpthread is loaded then unloaded. You can't do that because it'll screw up libc. One way around it is to build all your shared libraries with -pthread which will avoid linking to libpthread (-pthread is a noop when building shared libraries). You should be able to safely set PTHREAD_LIBS to -pthread instead of -lpthread, just keep an eye out for anything that manually brings in -lpthread. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 10:11:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4459E16A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02AC943D48; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55HButD028509; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 13:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 13:11:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086453979.18813.0.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Tim Robbins cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:11:57 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:40, Sean McNeil wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:31, Tim Robbins wrote: > > > > > Everything seems to work fine if I build libpthread with SYSTEM_SCOPE_ONLY > > > (at least it hasn't crashed so far.) My current guess is that there's a > > > bug in context manipulation or signals. I initially thought we weren't > > > saving enough FPU context in _amd64_save_context, but adding an fxsave > > > in there didn't help. > > > > I see a problem with bash and signals too when libpthread is involved. > > It would core dump when I resize a window. I use nss_ldap and it was > > pulling in pthread through db41. I solved my issue by rebuilding db41 > > to eliminate pthread from the libdb41.so.1. Perhaps tracing this down > > would be useful? > > resize of bash causes error like this: > > #0 _thr_sig_handler (sig=28, info=0x100, ucp=0x201701904) > at /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_sig.c:373 > #1 0x00000002006ae9b0 in _rl_savestring () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > #2 > #3 0x0000000200a822ec in read () from /lib/libc.so.5 > #4 0x00000002006ab113 in rl_getc () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > #5 0x00000002006ab0c9 in rl_read_key () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > #6 0x00000002006bdeb7 in readline_internal_char () from > /lib/libreadline.so.4 That all looks fine, but bash isn't threaded is it? -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 10:16:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64F4916A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C00743D3F; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A50FFD1D5; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06005-10; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E23BFD084; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:16:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Daniel Eischen In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086455768.18813.12.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:16:08 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: Tim Robbins cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:16:14 -0000 On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 10:04, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:31, Tim Robbins wrote: > > > > > Everything seems to work fine if I build libpthread with SYSTEM_SCOPE_ONLY > > > (at least it hasn't crashed so far.) My current guess is that there's a > > > bug in context manipulation or signals. I initially thought we weren't > > > saving enough FPU context in _amd64_save_context, but adding an fxsave > > > in there didn't help. > > > > I see a problem with bash and signals too when libpthread is involved. > > It would core dump when I resize a window. I use nss_ldap and it was > > pulling in pthread through db41. I solved my issue by rebuilding db41 > > to eliminate pthread from the libdb41.so.1. Perhaps tracing this down > > would be useful? > > Isn't that a known problem? You can't dynamically load libpthread > then unload it, which is what nss_ldap was doing. I thought that > was fixed so that libpthread wasn't pulled in. > > It could be possible that something is trying to dlopen() a library > that requires libpthread, and libpthread is loaded then unloaded. > You can't do that because it'll screw up libc. > > One way around it is to build all your shared libraries with -pthread > which will avoid linking to libpthread (-pthread is a noop when building > shared libraries). You should be able to safely set PTHREAD_LIBS to > -pthread instead of -lpthread, just keep an eye out for anything that > manually brings in -lpthread. Yes, this is a known problem. I worked on fixing at least one of the issues with that. The end result is that there is no easy way do handle these cases. That is why I ended up removing pthread from db41. It isn't correct. I felt, though, that the issues with gnome may be related to the bash one as this exact same setup works with i386 and doesn't with amd64. Looking at libreadline now I see there is an error: (gdb) bt #0 _thr_sig_handler (sig=28, info=0x100, ucp=0x201701904) at /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_sig.c:373 #1 0x00000002006aea90 in rl_sigwinch_handler (sig=28) at /usr/src/contrib/libreadline/signals.c:202 #2 You will see that libreadline invokes the handler as: 202 (*oh) (sig); From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 10:18:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A882E16A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 911E943D41; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D738FD1D5; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06189-10; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58EFFD084; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:18:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Daniel Eischen In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086455922.18813.15.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:18:42 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: Tim Robbins cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:18:43 -0000 On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 10:11, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:40, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:31, Tim Robbins wrote: > > > > > > > Everything seems to work fine if I build libpthread with SYSTEM_SCOPE_ONLY > > > > (at least it hasn't crashed so far.) My current guess is that there's a > > > > bug in context manipulation or signals. I initially thought we weren't > > > > saving enough FPU context in _amd64_save_context, but adding an fxsave > > > > in there didn't help. > > > > > > I see a problem with bash and signals too when libpthread is involved. > > > It would core dump when I resize a window. I use nss_ldap and it was > > > pulling in pthread through db41. I solved my issue by rebuilding db41 > > > to eliminate pthread from the libdb41.so.1. Perhaps tracing this down > > > would be useful? > > > > resize of bash causes error like this: > > > > #0 _thr_sig_handler (sig=28, info=0x100, ucp=0x201701904) > > at /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_sig.c:373 > > #1 0x00000002006ae9b0 in _rl_savestring () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > > #2 > > #3 0x0000000200a822ec in read () from /lib/libc.so.5 > > #4 0x00000002006ab113 in rl_getc () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > > #5 0x00000002006ab0c9 in rl_read_key () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > > #6 0x00000002006bdeb7 in readline_internal_char () from > > /lib/libreadline.so.4 > > That all looks fine, but bash isn't threaded is it? bash isn't naturally threaded. I rebuilt db41 to its default of linking with pthread. This caused threading to be pulled in. Look again, info and ucp are garbage. It core dumps when it tries to dereference info. From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 11:03:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1034B16A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com (rrcs-west-24-199-45-54.biz.rr.com [24.199.45.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE0443D31; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@mcneil.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0A4FD1D6; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcneil.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.mcneil.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19651-01; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.199.45.54] (mcneil.com [24.199.45.54]) by mail.mcneil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC21CFD084; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:03:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean McNeil To: Daniel Eischen In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086458607.18813.37.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 11:03:27 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mcneil.com cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 18:03:41 -0000 On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:57, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:16, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > > > I would also make sure that libkse isn't being used (either > > > remove it from your system or use libmap.conf). I would think > > > that trying to use libc_r and libkse together would present > > > the same sort of problem as using libpthread and libkse > > > together, but just to be sure... > > > > There hasn't been a libkse on my system in a very long time. Just to > > make sure, I have searched the whole computer and it was not found. > > Also, I have done the libmap.conf of libc_r: > > > > libc_r.so.5 libpthread.so.1 > > libc_r.so libpthread.so.1 > > > > I can now claim that I am no_one without a doubt. I got the same > > failures as before. > > > > With regards to gnome-specific or if KDE has the same issue, I cannot > > answer. I do not use KDE. It would appear to be gnome-specific > > (gtk-specific?). Emacs has never given me any problems, but neither has > > That includes glib also, right? right. > > nautilus, the panel, or a number of other gnome applications. > > > > For the moment, I highly suspect this is a pthread/readline interaction > > causing the crashes. > > Why do you suspect that? I suspect libreadline because the only time I get a crash is when I type in a character to an application or when it is starting up (resize?). Sorry, it just occurred to me that this might be useful information. Looking at my bash problem, I can see there is an issue with any program that might get a signal and then want to call an older installed handler as sa_handler(sig) What happens is that sigaction is called and returns a context with the _thr_sig_handler function. So the new signal handler is called and then it in turn wants to call the old one. But the old handler isn't called as a sigaction. I suppose it is really libreadline at fault here and it should check SA_SIGINFO. Do you think there might be others that don't check either? Why doesn't this show an issue in i386? Is it just luck that info has been null and not caused a bad dereference? Sean From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 12:17:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783C316A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B4743D2D; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:17:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55JHQtD001743; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:17:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086455922.18813.15.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Tim Robbins cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:17:34 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 10:11, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > resize of bash causes error like this: > > > > > > #0 _thr_sig_handler (sig=28, info=0x100, ucp=0x201701904) > > > at /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_sig.c:373 > > > #1 0x00000002006ae9b0 in _rl_savestring () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > > > #2 > > > #3 0x0000000200a822ec in read () from /lib/libc.so.5 > > > #4 0x00000002006ab113 in rl_getc () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > > > #5 0x00000002006ab0c9 in rl_read_key () from /lib/libreadline.so.4 > > > #6 0x00000002006bdeb7 in readline_internal_char () from > > > /lib/libreadline.so.4 > > > > That all looks fine, but bash isn't threaded is it? > > bash isn't naturally threaded. I rebuilt db41 to its default of linking > with pthread. This caused threading to be pulled in. Look again, info > and ucp are garbage. It core dumps when it tries to dereference info. I can't tell whether info or ucp are garbage or not. If libpthread is being unloaded, then you would expect it not to work correctly. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 12:21:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E7216A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDD943D1D; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i55JLTtD002551; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:21:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Sean McNeil In-Reply-To: <1086458607.18813.37.camel@server.mcneil.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:21:49 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 09:57, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Sean McNeil wrote: > > > > > With regards to gnome-specific or if KDE has the same issue, I cannot > > > answer. I do not use KDE. It would appear to be gnome-specific > > > (gtk-specific?). Emacs has never given me any problems, but neither has > > > > That includes glib also, right? > > right. > > > > nautilus, the panel, or a number of other gnome applications. > > > > > > For the moment, I highly suspect this is a pthread/readline interaction > > > causing the crashes. > > > > Why do you suspect that? > > I suspect libreadline because the only time I get a crash is when I type > in a character to an application or when it is starting up (resize?). > Sorry, it just occurred to me that this might be useful information. > > Looking at my bash problem, I can see there is an issue with any program > that might get a signal and then want to call an older installed handler > as > > sa_handler(sig) > > What happens is that sigaction is called and returns a context with the > _thr_sig_handler function. So the new signal handler is called and then > it in turn wants to call the old one. But the old handler isn't called > as a sigaction. > > I suppose it is really libreadline at fault here and it should check > SA_SIGINFO. Do you think there might be others that don't check either? I don't know; perhaps. > Why doesn't this show an issue in i386? Is it just luck that info has > been null and not caused a bad dereference? When I write signal handlers, I usually check info and ucp to make sure they are not null before using them. Actually, I rarely use them anyways so it doesn't matter if they are null or not. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-threads@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 12:41:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7670216A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.BAYAREA.NET [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16EF943D31; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:41:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i55JfIpv001279; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:41:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i55JfEst026872; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i55JfDal026871; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 12:41:13 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Daniel Eischen Message-ID: <20040605194113.GA26707@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <1086458607.18813.37.camel@server.mcneil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: Sean McNeil cc: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All my amd64 problems appear to be KSE X-BeenThere: freebsd-threads@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Threading on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:41:18 -0000 On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 03:21:29PM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > I suppose it is really libreadline at fault here and it should check > > SA_SIGINFO. Do you think there might be others that don't check either? > > I don't know; perhaps. > > > Why doesn't this show an issue in i386? Is it just luck that info has > > been null and not caused a bad dereference? > > When I write signal handlers, I usually check info and ucp to > make sure they are not null before using them. Actually, I > rarely use them anyways so it doesn't matter if they are null > or not. Nevertheless, libpthread has a signal handler that takes 3 arguments and it apparently gets called from other signal handlers (chaining) that do not always pass along the full context; just the signal number in this case. Consequently, info and ucp can be garbage as is the case here. This is a general problem and potentionally causes failures on all platforms, not just amd64. I tend to give blame to libreadline here, but I don't have a clear or even complete picture of it all, so I might actually miss a vital precondition that's being violated and that would clear libreadline... -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net