From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 23 17:30:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A5716A4DF for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E6F43D53 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:30:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.208.251]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650FE291B32 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:30:35 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.208.251]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05611-01 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:30:36 -0300 (ADT) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (blk-224-179-167.eastlink.ca [24.224.179.167]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61507291B2E for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:30:34 -0300 (ADT) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1027) id 903C15CDCF; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:30:35 -0300 (ADT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F74933DF1 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:30:35 -0300 (ADT) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:30:35 -0300 (ADT) From: User Freebsd To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060723142832.H1799@ganymede.hub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:30:44 -0000 On various lists, there is talk about how to we make hardware vendors sit up and take more notice of us ... alot of the negative responses seem to be 'we are too small of a group', but, of course, nobody out there can really give any even *reasonable* numbers of desktops and servers deployed with FreeBSD ... What I'd love to see is a *project initiated* (or FreeBSD Foundation) FreeBSD reporting mechanism similar to: http://www.mreriksson.net/uptimes/myuptimes Something just for FreeBSD users (well, all *BSD users should be invited, as I'd hope stuff like drivers are at least *semi* cross-shareable) ... uptime not being the really big thing here, but stuff like version of FreeBSD being run, country being run in, maybe have it parse dmesg on startup and report devices in use, etc ... Come up with reports like # of hosts using fxp vs em devices, etc ... although it may be a bit more difficult, I don't know, but report on specific hardware being used ... Statistics that either Core, or the FreeBSD Foundation, can use to show vendors they are talking to about what is currently in use ... but also to show developers themselves what device drivers are actually in use, that sort of thing ... Nothing that I'd think would be 'sensitive information', but information that would be useful from either a marketing, or support, point of view ... And market / promote it ... Basically, unless I'm mistaken, right now we have *nothing* to base numbers on, except maybe the netcraft report(s)? ... but, that only includes hosts running web servers ... how many are running firewalls? desktops? mail servers? etc ... We need to show vendors we aren't some "hobbiest group", and towards that end, producing some sort of up to date #s would really help, I would think ... show them we are a market worth looking at ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 23 20:29:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E2D16A4DE for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:29:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from thin.berklix.org (thin.berklix.org [194.246.123.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4737743D45 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:29:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A53A1.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.83.161]) (authenticated bits=128) by thin.berklix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k6NKTSlp031958; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:29:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from fire.jhs.private (fire.jhs.private [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k6NKTQOD005123; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:29:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from fire.jhs.private (localhost.jhs.private [127.0.0.1]) by fire.jhs.private (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k6NKTQ4T025366; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:29:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200607232029.k6NKTQ4T025366@fire.jhs.private> To: User Freebsd In-Reply-To: Message from User Freebsd of "Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:30:35 -0300." <20060723142832.H1799@ganymede.hub.org> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:29:26 +0200 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:29:33 -0000 > Something just for FreeBSD users (well, all *BSD users should be invited, Why not co-operate with Linux guys on this ? there's Free Net Open Dragon, & there' a load of Linuxes too, & a lot of the admin & design would be the same to collect stats regardless, .. & a lot of the hard admin tool design issues, like how to decide & allow when to autopsy transaction logs, & delete semi obvious / suspect troll submissions, & update old entries, & change server & home host numbers & functions etc, & issue people passwords so they can change themselves. If much is done by a human it's thankless, & person would get bored, better use a robot (mail or web or both), & then a lot of the design would be common regardless if *BSD, *Linux, *Mach *Minix or whatever had a few special questions only applicaple to that OS. Results could be paralled mailed to multiple servers if we don't trust `the other OS camp(s), but i'd trust eg Debian site or any BSD site to host it, (I have 3 servers to host it on berklix.org, & I'm sure 100's of other's d volunteer to host it too). I sure wouldnt want to spend time writing it though. How about palming it off on some Summer Of Code hacker next Northern hemisphere summer? It's also possibly something non mainline computer people might do for us ! Ethnologist/ social research students with some programming skills, whatever they call themselves: Pperiodically I see references to Geek numbers, free software users & what they're up to, seem to recall something in Washinton Post a while back, though dont normally read that. Those people would be OS neutral too, 'long as they're not Redmond based/ users/subsidised. -- Julian Stacey. Consultant Unix Net & Sys. Eng., Munich. http://berklix.com Mail in Ascii, HTML=spam. Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 00:36:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A238216A4DA for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:36:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288F243D46 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:36:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.208.251]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2EE291B2B; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:36:41 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.208.251]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 49403-03; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:36:45 -0300 (ADT) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (blk-224-179-167.eastlink.ca [24.224.179.167]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AAF291988; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:36:40 -0300 (ADT) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1027) id AE6D349D09; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:36:45 -0300 (ADT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB3A47B47; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:36:45 -0300 (ADT) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:36:45 -0300 (ADT) From: User Freebsd To: "Julian H. Stacey" In-Reply-To: <200607232029.k6NKTQ4T025366@fire.jhs.private> Message-ID: <20060723210819.T17979@ganymede.hub.org> References: <200607232029.k6NKTQ4T025366@fire.jhs.private> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:36:47 -0000 IMHO, it *has* to be an officially recognized project, not something someone just throws together and hopes ppl will register ... it should be something that ppl are encouraged to become members of, since our goal is to show vendors that we *are* a force ... but, it *should* be semi-anonymous, since the last thing we want is vendors to use it as a troll-list for their sales men ... As for Linux ... they already have their backing ... the fact that the 'Tier 1' guys like IBM openly support them on their hardware gives the other vendors a reason to want/need to 'jump on the bandwagon' ... The thing is, right now, what do any of the Advocacy group have to work with when Advocating? Who *big* recognizes FreeBSD as a viable operating system, at least openly? ICP Vortex did until FreeBSD 5.x, but they have nothing for 6 or 7 ... Adaptec, IBM, HP, etc ... none of them really *see* FreeBSD ... HP apparently has a test drive available for FreeBSD, but its not considered on of their 'supported platforms' (although the Proliant DL360 G4ps that I recently picked up are a dream with 6-STABLE) ... The thing with this idea is that if we could get *every* FreeBSD based system out there registered/talking to it ... how many would we have? Are we *really* a bunch of hobbiests working out of our garages, or ... ? Also, what hardware are we using? What drivers are the more popular? This is all information that we should be able to parse easily from dmesg and upload ... Hell, how many ppl are still running 3.x or 4.x systems, vs the newer stuff? Its easy to 'discontinue support for' an older release, but if ppl aren't moving up to the newer stuff, and the #s are showing that to be the case, why, and how do you encourage them to move up? I'm not saying it will be an easy/small project ... nor do I think its for one person ... but I do think that it *has* to be an officially recognized extension of the project, and for the project ... On Sun, 23 Jul 2006, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> Something just for FreeBSD users (well, all *BSD users should be invited, > > Why not co-operate with Linux guys on this ? there's Free Net Open > Dragon, & there' a load of Linuxes too, & a lot of the admin & > design would be the same to collect stats regardless, .. & a lot > of the hard admin tool design issues, like how to decide & allow > when to autopsy transaction logs, & delete semi obvious / suspect > troll submissions, & update old entries, & change server & home > host numbers & functions etc, & issue people passwords so they can > change themselves. > > If much is done by a human it's thankless, & person would get bored, > better use a robot (mail or web or both), & then a lot of the design > would be common regardless if *BSD, *Linux, *Mach *Minix or whatever > had a few special questions only applicaple to that OS. > > Results could be paralled mailed to multiple servers if we don't > trust `the other OS camp(s), but i'd trust eg Debian site or any BSD > site to host it, (I have 3 servers to host it on berklix.org, > & I'm sure 100's of other's d volunteer to host it too). I sure > wouldnt want to spend time writing it though. How about palming > it off on some Summer Of Code hacker next Northern hemisphere summer? > > It's also possibly something non mainline computer people might do > for us ! Ethnologist/ social research students with some programming > skills, whatever they call themselves: Pperiodically I see references > to Geek numbers, free software users & what they're up to, seem to > recall something in Washinton Post a while back, though dont normally > read that. Those people would be OS neutral too, 'long as they're > not Redmond based/ users/subsidised. > > -- > Julian Stacey. Consultant Unix Net & Sys. Eng., Munich. http://berklix.com > Mail in Ascii, HTML=spam. Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 01:20:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E514716A4DA; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:20:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from m21.unixathome.org (m21.unixathome.org [205.150.199.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B43C43D46; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:20:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [205.150.199.217]) by m21.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD69C3B0; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m21.unixathome.org ([205.150.199.217]) by localhost (m21.unixathome.org [205.150.199.217]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03110-06; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [70.26.229.230]) by m21.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169E0BFB2; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.55.0.99] (wocker.unixathome.org [10.55.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42619B822; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:20:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:20:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <44C3E821.27184.51D99D2E@dan.langille.org> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.31) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at unixathome.org Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Donations sought for hardware purchase X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:20:39 -0000 Hi folks, I'm asking for donations to purchase SATA drives for a new server. Details at: http://www.freebsddiary.org/opteron-drives-fund-raising.php -- Dan Langille : Software Developer looking for work my resume: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 01:23:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECDB216A4DE for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:23:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from mail.twinthornes.com (mail.twinthornes.com [65.75.198.147]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F5B43D49 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:23:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from [10.242.169.24] (c-67-171-135-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net [67.171.135.169]) by mail.twinthornes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ADB154; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44C42100.5090201@bitfreak.org> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:23:12 -0700 From: Darren User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: User Freebsd References: <200607232029.k6NKTQ4T025366@fire.jhs.private> <20060723210819.T17979@ganymede.hub.org> In-Reply-To: <20060723210819.T17979@ganymede.hub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "Julian H. Stacey" Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:23:14 -0000 User Freebsd wrote: > Who *big* recognizes FreeBSD as a viable > operating system, at least openly? When PHK asked the FreeBSD community to donate USD16,500-33000 so he could spend 3-6 months working regular hours on FreeBSD, Pair Networks (pair.com) donated USD20,000. I don't know if that's "recognition as viable" or not, but businesses generally don't give $20k to anyone without a reasonable expectation of a solid return on investment. > Hell, how many ppl are still running 3.x or 4.x systems, vs the newer > stuff? I have a few systems running the "final" RELENG_4. These are only doing so because they're internal file or mail servers on older hardware. They're stable, problem free and have low exposure with no applicable security flaws. I can't justify depriving a business of critical IT services for the several hours it will take to do the rebuild. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 03:10:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D4616A4DE for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:10:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevlar_t_hodgepodge@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s6.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s6.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.142]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9947C43D46 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:10:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kevlar_t_hodgepodge@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.44]) by bay0-omc2-s6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:10:12 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:10:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:10:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [71.87.100.126] X-Originating-Email: [kevlar_t_hodgepodge@hotmail.com] X-Sender: kevlar_t_hodgepodge@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <44C42100.5090201@bitfreak.org> From: "kevlar Hodge-Podge" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:10:07 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2006 03:10:12.0011 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD44EFB0:01C6AECE] Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:10:13 -0000 I just want to see if I understand the issue correctly. >From what it sounds like there would need to both be a server for all the individual machines to connect to, and some sort of scripted client to capture info on the machine and send it to the server. When asking about older machines such as the RELENG_4 mail server mentioned, wouldn’t that person have to go back and in stall this software on the machine? Also if this project were to work, it would almost have to be placed as a high priority install, if not almost mandatory. When and how often would the client contact the server? Every reboot would seem like a good time, but possibly more often. Would it be possible to modify a very thin email client to work as the client, meaning the server would send an email, and when received it would prompt you “would you like to send uptime/user data now?” perhaps even being able to choose what types of data to send. I think the average person would be more likely to send more info if they knew exactly what was being sent. >From: Darren >Reply-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org >To: User Freebsd >CC: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "Julian H. Stacey" >Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? >Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:23:12 -0700 > >User Freebsd wrote: >>Who *big* recognizes FreeBSD as a viable operating system, at least >>openly? > >When PHK asked the FreeBSD community to donate USD16,500-33000 so he could >spend 3-6 months working regular hours on FreeBSD, Pair Networks (pair.com) >donated USD20,000. > >I don't know if that's "recognition as viable" or not, but businesses >generally don't give $20k to anyone without a reasonable expectation of a >solid return on investment. > >>Hell, how many ppl are still running 3.x or 4.x systems, vs the newer >>stuff? > >I have a few systems running the "final" RELENG_4. These are only doing so >because they're internal file or mail servers on older hardware. They're >stable, problem free and have low exposure with no applicable security >flaws. I can't justify depriving a business of critical IT services for >the several hours it will take to do the rebuild. >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 03:40:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FAD16A4DE for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:40:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C62643D45 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:40:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.208.251]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5C8291B2B; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:40:44 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.208.251]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 70925-05; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:40:44 -0300 (ADT) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (blk-224-179-167.eastlink.ca [24.224.179.167]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED1C291B08; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:40:43 -0300 (ADT) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1027) id E4DDF49D6B; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:40:42 -0300 (ADT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3DF449CC2; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:40:42 -0300 (ADT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:40:42 -0300 (ADT) From: User Freebsd To: kevlar Hodge-Podge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060724003805.B17979@ganymede.hub.org> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1293882854-1153712442=:17979" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:40:46 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1293882854-1153712442=:17979 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE 'k, there are at least two "clients" already in existence ... and, in=20 fact, the one that I posted the URL about even has Protocol information=20 included, so we *should* be able to avoid recreating the wheel here, only= =20 extend it ... I should *not* be a mandatory ... then we're as bad as other companies=20 that are into embedding 'spyware' ... it should be an opt-in sort of=20 thing, but something that is included as part of the OS, just like=20 ntpdate ... something a simple addition to /etc/rc.conf would enable,=20 *or*, even have it enabled by default, but easy to *disable* ... As for older releases, that would fall under a verison available in ports,= =20 that could be downloaded and run ... There has to be conscious involvement from the community as a whole in=20 this though ... On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, kevlar Hodge-Podge wrote: > I just want to see if I understand the issue correctly. > >> From what it sounds like there would need to both be a server for all th= e=20 > individual machines to connect to, and some sort of scripted client to=20 > capture info on the machine and send it to the server. When asking about= =20 > older machines such as the RELENG_4 mail server mentioned, wouldn=92t tha= t=20 > person have to go back and in stall this software on the machine? Also if= =20 > this project were to work, it would almost have to be placed as a high=20 > priority install, if not almost mandatory. When and how often would the= =20 > client contact the server? Every reboot would seem like a good time, but= =20 > possibly more often. Would it be possible to modify a very thin email cli= ent=20 > to work as the client, meaning the server would send an email, and when= =20 > received it would prompt you =93would you like to send uptime/user data n= ow?=94=20 > perhaps even being able to choose what types of data to send. I think the= =20 > average person would be more likely to send more info if they knew exactl= y=20 > what was being sent. > > > >> From: Darren >> Reply-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org >> To: User Freebsd >> CC: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "Julian H. Stacey" >> Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? >> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:23:12 -0700 >>=20 >> User Freebsd wrote: >>> Who *big* recognizes FreeBSD as a viable operating system, at least=20 >>> openly? >>=20 >> When PHK asked the FreeBSD community to donate USD16,500-33000 so he cou= ld=20 >> spend 3-6 months working regular hours on FreeBSD, Pair Networks (pair.c= om)=20 >> donated USD20,000. >>=20 >> I don't know if that's "recognition as viable" or not, but businesses=20 >> generally don't give $20k to anyone without a reasonable expectation of = a=20 >> solid return on investment. >>=20 >>> Hell, how many ppl are still running 3.x or 4.x systems, vs the newer= =20 >>> stuff? >>=20 >> I have a few systems running the "final" RELENG_4. These are only doing= so=20 >> because they're internal file or mail servers on older hardware. They're= =20 >> stable, problem free and have low exposure with no applicable security= =20 >> flaws. I can't justify depriving a business of critical IT services for= =20 >> the several hours it will take to do the rebuild. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 --0-1293882854-1153712442=:17979-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 05:26:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2C416A4DD for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:26:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from mail.twinthornes.com (mail.twinthornes.com [65.75.198.147]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A227A43D53 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:26:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from [10.242.169.24] (c-67-171-135-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net [67.171.135.169]) by mail.twinthornes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF5C1E2; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44C45A10.5080503@bitfreak.org> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:26:40 -0700 From: Darren User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kevlar Hodge-Podge References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:26:41 -0000 kevlar Hodge-Podge wrote: > I just want to see if I understand the issue correctly. > >> From what it sounds like there would need to both be a server for all the > individual machines to connect to, and some sort of scripted client to > capture info on the machine and send it to the server. When asking about > older machines such as the RELENG_4 mail server mentioned, wouldn’t that > person have to go back and in stall this software on the machine? Also > if this project were to work, it would almost have to be placed as a > high priority install, if not almost mandatory. When and how often would > the client contact the server? Every reboot would seem like a good time, > but possibly more often. Would it be possible to modify a very thin > email client to work as the client, meaning the server would send an > email, and when received it would prompt you “would you like to send > uptime/user data now?” perhaps even being able to choose what types of > data to send. I think the average person would be more likely to send > more info if they knew exactly what was being sent. The outrage over the behavior and potential of WGA is a pretty good meter of the general population's opinion of software "calling home." From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 12:00:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7D916A4DF for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:00:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from ns2.twenty4help.se (ns2.twenty4help.se [80.65.195.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A50A43D5A for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:00:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (132.dairy.twenty4help.se [80.65.195.132]) by ns2.twenty4help.se (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6OC0fSI028824; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:00:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <44C4B638.5090401@401.cx> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:59:52 +0200 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: User Freebsd References: <20060724003805.B17979@ganymede.hub.org> In-Reply-To: <20060724003805.B17979@ganymede.hub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:00:04 -0000 User Freebsd wrote: > > 'k, there are at least two "clients" already in existence ... and, in > fact, the one that I posted the URL about even has Protocol information > included, so we *should* be able to avoid recreating the wheel here, > only extend it ... > > I should *not* be a mandatory ... then we're as bad as other companies > that are into embedding 'spyware' ... it should be an opt-in sort of > thing, but something that is included as part of the OS, just like > ntpdate ... something a simple addition to /etc/rc.conf would enable, > *or*, even have it enabled by default, but easy to *disable* ... Why not make it part of the installer? Present a screen at the end of the installation that briefly explains the idea, and then let the user chose to view the information about to be sent, refuse to send it or simply accept to send it. This of course requires the machine to be connected during the install, which is not a problem during ftp-installs but might be a problem for users installing from cd. -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 18:59:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F3616A4DF for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:59:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from mail.twinthornes.com (mail.twinthornes.com [65.75.198.147]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458EB43D96 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:59:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from [10.242.169.24] (c-67-171-135-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net [67.171.135.169]) by mail.twinthornes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34EFD3A4; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44C51874.5090509@bitfreak.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:59:00 -0700 From: Darren User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg References: <20060724003805.B17979@ganymede.hub.org> <44C4B638.5090401@401.cx> In-Reply-To: <44C4B638.5090401@401.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:59:16 -0000 Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > Why not make it part of the installer? > Present a screen at the end of the installation that briefly > explains the idea, and then let the user chose to view the > information about to be sent, refuse to send it or simply accept to > send it. This of course requires the machine to be connected during > the install, which is not a problem during ftp-installs but might be > a problem for users installing from cd. Or, currently, any machine with a wireless NIC, since sysinstall does not handle ifconfig wireless settings well or wpa_supplicant settings at all. One of the most common family of cards, the Intel PROWireless series, requires a firmware blob that AFAIK can't be legally packaged with the CD. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 21:53:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B3116A4E0 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:53:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E75BD43D58 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:53:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (wm.hub.org [200.46.204.128]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152E4291B40; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:53:02 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.128]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 75554-03; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:53:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (blk-224-179-167.eastlink.ca [24.224.179.167]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F821291B1A; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:53:01 -0300 (ADT) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1027) id DFB714918F; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:53:07 -0300 (ADT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1893BC76; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:53:07 -0300 (ADT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:53:07 -0300 (ADT) From: User Freebsd To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <44C51874.5090509@bitfreak.org> Message-ID: <20060724185112.L17979@ganymede.hub.org> References: <20060724003805.B17979@ganymede.hub.org> <44C4B638.5090401@401.cx> <44C51874.5090509@bitfreak.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Subject: Re: What sort of market does FreeBSD provide ... ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:53:07 -0000 On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, Darren wrote: > Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: >> Why not make it part of the installer? >> Present a screen at the end of the installation that briefly >> explains the idea, and then let the user chose to view the >> information about to be sent, refuse to send it or simply accept to >> send it. This of course requires the machine to be connected during >> the install, which is not a problem during ftp-installs but might be >> a problem for users installing from cd. > > Or, currently, any machine with a wireless NIC, since sysinstall does not > handle ifconfig wireless settings well or wpa_supplicant settings at all. > One of the most common family of cards, the Intel PROWireless series, > requires a firmware blob that AFAIK can't be legally packaged with the CD. the other problem with this is that its a one time only thing ... it says "Joe User installed FreeBSD", it doesn't say "Joe User Installed FreeBSD, didn't like it so stop'd running it and switched to something else" ... The thing with the uptime projects is that they update the server periodically, to say "I'm still here, and I'm still running FreeBSD" ... we shouldn't be looking at "who *ran* FreeBSD", we should be looking at/for "who *is running* FreeBSD" ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 28 19:55:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF01216A4DF for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:55:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B580043D80 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:55:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.208.251]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA99290C6D for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:55:04 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.208.251]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80349-07 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:55:07 -0300 (ADT) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (blk-224-179-167.eastlink.ca [24.224.179.167]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C82C291B1D for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:54:34 -0300 (ADT) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1027) id 83FAB5D214; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:54:37 -0300 (ADT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832C55D1FF for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:54:37 -0300 (ADT) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:54:23 -0300 (ADT) From: User Freebsd To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060728164526.E27679@ganymede.hub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ReSent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:54:32 -0300 (ADT) ReSent-From: User Freebsd ReSent-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org ReSent-Subject: Gotta start somewhere ... how many of us are really out there? ReSent-Message-ID: <20060728165432.A27679@ganymede.hub.org> Cc: Subject: Gotta start somewhere ... how many of us are really out there? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:55:35 -0000 Okay, here is the challenge ... for vendors to 'take notice' of the fact that exist as a market, there really needs to be *some* numbers that ppl like -core, -advocacy and -marketing can use ... right now, there is nothing out there that can be considered either 'half the story', or just purely guess work ... This means that when someone here talks about "don't buy from company A because they don't support us", its kind of a meaningless boycott, since, as far as they are concerned, they aren't making any money off us, therefore, aren't losing any ... Although I'd eventually like to see something better that includes more information (ie. version of FreeBSD being run, AMD vs Intel, etc), even just getting #s on the size of the community that we are apart of would be good .... Also, for the data to *mean* anything, it has to be semi-realtime, in that it can't just be sent in once, but a ping has to be sent in periodically to show that that server *is*, in fact, actually still running FreeBSD ... Towards that end, as a starter, I would like to encourage everyone out there running 1 or more FreeBSD boxes to go to http://www.mreriksson.net/uptimes register all of your hosts, and install /usr/ports/sysutils/uptimec and get it running ... Right now, there are 249 FreeBSD hosts listed ... I can't believe that that is *all* of them out there ... We don't care about the uptime side of things ... all we care about is finding out how many FreeBSD hosts are actually being run ... how big are we as a market ... I'm currently trying to come up with something better, but, right now, that seems to be the best that is out there ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664