From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 26 07:54:50 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA33016A421 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:54:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@boosten.org) Received: from smtpq2.groni1.gr.home.nl (smtpq2.groni1.gr.home.nl [213.51.130.201]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D89213C45B for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:54:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@boosten.org) Received: from [213.51.130.188] (port=45287 helo=smtp3.groni1.gr.home.nl) by smtpq2.groni1.gr.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1IPCc1-0007mT-Uk; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:32:45 +0200 Received: from cp268254-a.landg1.lb.home.nl ([213.51.103.48]:5038 helo=ra.egypt.nl) by smtp3.groni1.gr.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1IPCbz-0004xf-6O; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:32:43 +0200 Received: from ra.egypt.nl (localhost.egypt.nl [127.0.0.1]) by ra.egypt.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95914398B6; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:32:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: by ra.egypt.nl (Postfix, from userid 501) id 58C9F398AB; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:32:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on ra.egypt.nl X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (xp.egypt.nl [192.168.13.35]) by ra.egypt.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C0CA39885; Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:32:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46D12C9E.7040203@boosten.org> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:32:46 +0200 From: Peter Boosten User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: martins@paris.ensmp.fr References: <46D01641.6000809@ensmp.fr> In-Reply-To: <46D01641.6000809@ensmp.fr> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 OpenPGP: url=http://www.boosten.org/content/view/49/47/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000768-3, 08/25/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-AtHome-MailScanner-Information: Please contact support@home.nl for more information X-AtHome-MailScanner: Found to be clean Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrading from FreeBSD 5.3 to 6.2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:54:50 -0000 Jose-Marcio Martins da Cruz wrote: > > Ralph, > > I found Ralph Engelschall scripts to upgrade FreeBSD systems. > > http://people.freebsd.org/~rse/upgrade/freebsd-upgrade-5x-6x.txt > > But there's a line saying : > > **** > The following is a step-by-step procedure for upgrading a server from > FreeBSD 5.[45]-STABLE to a FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE. > **** > > Probably this line tell me that I can't use it to upgrade from 5.3 to > 6.2. If I'm write, what can I do and how to modify it to upgrade a 5.3 > box ? Any other suggestion ??? The only thing I did was adding the following line to /etc/make.conf: COMPAT5x= yes Worked like charm for 3 different machines. Peter -- http://www.boosten.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 27 13:54:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0849C16A417 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:54:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from speedfactory.net (mail6.speedfactory.net [66.23.216.219]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7D7B13C467 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:54:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (unverified [66.23.211.162]) by speedfactory.net (SurgeMail 3.8k2) with ESMTP id 205598024-1834499 for multiple; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:54:37 -0400 Received: from zion.baldwin.cx (zion.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7RDsH9Q027472; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:54:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:55:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <7ed534d5904b6579416f3c1be82c2792@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7ed534d5904b6579416f3c1be82c2792@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200708270855.48720.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.1]); Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:54:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.3/4075/Mon Aug 27 08:49:55 2007 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Joshua Isom Subject: Re: Debugging problems on amd64-current X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:54:26 -0000 On Friday 24 August 2007 03:13:08 am Joshua Isom wrote: > As some may remember, about a month ago I asked a question about my dvd > drive, apparently an sata atapi drive. Updating to a 7.0-current/amd64 > kernel did allow it to be recognized and I've been able to use it. But > recently I'd been noticing a kernel crash I could create. My computer > is headless so I didn't get any dump(savecore saved nothing). If I > used gdb and stepped after a segfault, it'd crash the system. Pressing > the power button did nothing, and pressing and holding it was required > to get it to do something. Although I knew there was a problem, I > figured I'd update my world to match my kernel(a few apps didn't work > with the mismatch but those I needed did). It went smoothly, until I > tried running gdb. Have you tried breaking into the kernel debugger? It sounds like you've hit a deadlock of some sort. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 27 14:06:02 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A1D16A46E; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:06:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 5-stars@ukr.net) Received: from kitty.ukr.net (kitty.ukr.net [212.42.65.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81B1F13C522; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:05:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 5-stars@ukr.net) Received: from mail by kitty.ukr.net with local ID 1IPfE4-000KdW-Kg ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:05:56 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_----------=_1188223556792401" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:05:56 UT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Nemesis stars" <5-stars@ukr.net> X-Life: is great, enjoy it! X-Mailer: freemail.ukr.net mPOP 3.4.1 X-Originating-Ip: [82.193.110.16] X-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; U; ru) Opera 9.01 Message-Id: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:08:52 +0000 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: ( =?windows-1251?b?zeXyIPLl7Ps=?= ) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:06:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_----------=_1188223556792401 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi. I was install FreBSD Next I download Windowds driver: ar5513.sys net5513.cat net5513.inf Next I make it # ndisegn ar5513.sys net5513.inf net5513.cat in result - I have that : ar5513.sys.ko net5513.cat.ko Then I make kernel with: options NDISAPI device ndis device wlan These files I copy in /boot/kernel/ And edit /boot/loader.conf ar5513_sys_load="YES" net5513_cat_load="YES" Then reboot ;-) BUT!!! if I do: ifconfig ndis0 ssid Wi-Fi.5-stars channel 11 media DS/11Mbps mediaopt hostap up stationname "Wi-Fi.5-stars" I have: NDIS0: setting BSSID failed: 45 ifconfig: SIOCS80211: Invalid argument I ask in support. They said what NDIS coudn't changed SSID because NDIS not support the Wirless-Card. --_----------=_1188223556792401 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="ENG.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment SGkuIA0KDQogSSB3YXMgaW5zdGFsbCBGcmVCU0QNCg0KDQpOZXh0IEkgZG93bmxvYWQgV2luZG93 ZHMgZHJpdmVyOg0KDQphcjU1MTMuc3lzIA0KbmV0NTUxMy5jYXQgDQpuZXQ1NTEzLmluZiANCg0K DQoNCk5leHQgSSBtYWtlIGl0DQogDQojIG5kaXNlZ24gYXI1NTEzLnN5cyBuZXQ1NTEzLmluZiBu ZXQ1NTEzLmNhdCANCg0KDQppbiByZXN1bHQgLSBJIGhhdmUgdGhhdCA6DQoNCmFyNTUxMy5zeXMu a28gDQpuZXQ1NTEzLmNhdC5rbyANCg0KDQpUaGVuIEkgbWFrZSBrZXJuZWwgd2l0aDoNCiANCm9w dGlvbnMgTkRJU0FQSSANCmRldmljZSBuZGlzIA0KZGV2aWNlIHdsYW4gDQoNClRoZXNlIGZpbGVz IEkgY29weSBpbiAvYm9vdC9rZXJuZWwvIA0KDQoNCkFuZCBlZGl0IC9ib290L2xvYWRlci5jb25m IA0KYXI1NTEzX3N5c19sb2FkPSJZRVMiIA0KbmV0NTUxM19jYXRfbG9hZD0iWUVTIiANCg0KVGhl biByZWJvb3QgOy0pIA0KDQoNCkJVVCEhISANCg0KaWYgSSBkbzoNCg0KaWZjb25maWcgbmRpczAg c3NpZCBXaS1GaS41LXN0YXJzIGNoYW5uZWwgMTEgbWVkaWEgRFMvMTFNYnBzIG1lZGlhb3B0IGhv c3RhcCB1cCBzdGF0aW9ubmFtZSAiV2ktRmkuNS1zdGFycyIgDQoNCkkgaGF2ZToNCiANCk5ESVMw OiBzZXR0aW5nIEJTU0lEIGZhaWxlZDogNDUgDQppZmNvbmZpZzogU0lPQ1M4MDIxMTogSW52YWxp ZCBhcmd1bWVudCANCg0KDQpJIGFzayBpbiBzdXBwb3J0LiBUaGV5IHNhaWQgd2hhdCBORElTIGNv dWRuJ3QgY2hhbmdlZCBTU0lEIGJlY2F1c2UgTkRJUyBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydCB0aGUgV2lybGVzcy1D YXJkLg== --_----------=_1188223556792401 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="RUS.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment x+Tw4PHy4vPp8uUuLi4g7/Du5OXr++Lg/iDt6OblIO/l8OX36PHr5e3z/iDu7+Xw4Pbo/iDiIOjy 7uPlIO746OHq4C4uLiDi5fH8IMjt5fIg7+Xw5eru7+DrLi4uIOIg97jsIO/w7uHr5ezgPyANCg0K DQrS4OouLi4g7eD37bjsIO/u7+7w/+Tq8y4uLi4gDQrR8u7o8iD36PHy4P8g1PD+9eAgDQrB5fC4 7CDq4Pfg5ewg4ujt5O7i++kg5PDg6eLl8CDu8iDx/uTgIA0KxODr/PjlIPDg8e/g6u7i++Lg5ewg 7+7r8/fg5ewg8uDq6OUg9ODp6/sgDQoNCmFyNTUxMy5zeXMgDQpuZXQ1NTEzLmNhdCANCm5ldDU1 MTMuaW5mIA0KDQrE4Ov8+OUg7/Du4+7t/+jsIOj1IPfl8OXnIG5kaXNnZW4gDQojIG5kaXNlZ24g YXI1NTEzLnN5cyBuZXQ1NTEzLmluZiBuZXQ1NTEzLmNhdCANCg0K4iDw5efz6/zy4PLlIO/u6/P3 4OXsIOTi4CDs7uTz6/8gLuruIA0KYXI1NTEzLnN5cy5rbyANCm5ldDU1MTMuY2F0LmtvIA0KDQri IP3y7iDi8OXs/yDq7uzv6Ovo7CD/5PDuIPEg8uDq6OzoIO/g8ODs5fLw4OzoIA0Kb3B0aW9ucyBO RElTQVBJIA0KZGV2aWNlIG5kaXMgDQpkZXZpY2Ugd2xhbiANCg0K7+7x6+Ug6u7v6PDz5ewg5OLg IOzu5PPr/yDiIO/g7+rzIC9ib290L2tlcm5lbC8gDQroIOIgL2Jvb3QvbG9hZGVyLmNvbmYg7+j4 6OwgDQphcjU1MTNfc3lzX2xvYWQ9IllFUyIgDQpuZXQ1NTEzX2NhdF9sb2FkPSJZRVMiIA0KDQri 8bguLi4g8OXh8/IgDQoNCv3y7iAi8fLg7eTg8PLt++kiIOzl8u7kIO/u5Orr/vfl7ej/Li4uIA0K DQry7uPk4CDx7/Dg+Oji4OXy8f8uLi4gDQrq4Oru4+4g1dMqIOru4+TgIO3g8fLw4Oji4OX4/CDt 7uLu5SDv7uvz9+Xt7e7lIPPx8vDu6fHy4u4gbmRpczAgDQpxdW90ZTogDQoNCg0KaWZjb25maWcg bmRpczAgc3NpZCBXaS1GaS41LXN0YXJzIGNoYW5uZWwgMTEgbWVkaWEgRFMvMTFNYnBzIG1lZGlh b3B0IGhvc3RhcCB1cCBzdGF0aW9ubmFtZSAiV2ktRmkuNS1zdGFycyIgDQoNCg0Kwvvh6OLg5fIg 8uDq8/4g9fDl7fwgDQpORElTMDogc2V0dGluZyBCU1NJRCBmYWlsZWQ6IDQ1IA0KaWZjb25maWc6 IFNJT0NTODAyMTE6IEludmFsaWQgYXJndW1lbnQgDQoNCg0Kwu7v8O7xLi4uIOzu5iD/IPe48u4g 7eUg5O7v7vLq6/736Os/IOjr6CD3uPLuIO3l7eDx8vDu6Os/IA0KDQoNCtHv8OD46OLg6yDiIPHz 7+7w8uUuIM7t6CDx7u7h+ejr6CD38u4gzcTI0SDt5SDv7uTl8Obo4uDl8iDx5fLl4vP18y4uLg0K DQrXuCDk5evg8vw/IA== --_----------=_1188223556792401-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 27 17:18:38 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C107516A417; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:18:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 5-stars@ukr.net) Received: from ffe1.ukr.net (ffe1.ukr.net [195.214.192.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EF113C428; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:18:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 5-stars@ukr.net) Received: from mail by ffe1.ukr.net with local ID 1IPiER-000Mg7-B9 ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:18:31 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_----------=_1188235111871541" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:18:31 UT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Nemesis stars" <5-stars@ukr.net> X-Life: is great, enjoy it! X-Mailer: freemail.ukr.net mPOP 3.4.1 X-Originating-Ip: [82.193.110.16] X-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; U; ru) Opera 9.01 Message-Id: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:26:48 +0000 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD + D-Link DWL-G520M X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:18:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_----------=_1188235111871541 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi. I was install FreBSD Next I download Windowds driver: ar5513.sys net5513.cat net5513.inf Next I make it # ndisegn ar5513.sys net5513.inf net5513.cat in result - I have that : ar5513.sys.ko net5513.cat.ko Then I make kernel with: options NDISAPI device ndis device wlan These files I copy in /boot/kernel/ And edit /boot/loader.conf ar5513_sys_load="YES" net5513_cat_load="YES" Then reboot ;-) BUT!!! if I do: ifconfig ndis0 ssid Wi-Fi.5-stars channel 11 media DS/11Mbps mediaopt hostap up stationname "Wi-Fi.5-stars" I have: NDIS0: setting BSSID failed: 45 ifconfig: SIOCS80211: Invalid argument I ask in support. They said what NDIS coudn't changed SSID because NDIS not support the Wirless-Card. --_----------=_1188235111871541 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="ENG.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment SGkuIA0KDQogSSB3YXMgaW5zdGFsbCBGcmVCU0QNCg0KDQpOZXh0IEkgZG93bmxvYWQgV2luZG93 ZHMgZHJpdmVyOg0KDQphcjU1MTMuc3lzIA0KbmV0NTUxMy5jYXQgDQpuZXQ1NTEzLmluZiANCg0K DQoNCk5leHQgSSBtYWtlIGl0DQogDQojIG5kaXNlZ24gYXI1NTEzLnN5cyBuZXQ1NTEzLmluZiBu ZXQ1NTEzLmNhdCANCg0KDQppbiByZXN1bHQgLSBJIGhhdmUgdGhhdCA6DQoNCmFyNTUxMy5zeXMu a28gDQpuZXQ1NTEzLmNhdC5rbyANCg0KDQpUaGVuIEkgbWFrZSBrZXJuZWwgd2l0aDoNCiANCm9w dGlvbnMgTkRJU0FQSSANCmRldmljZSBuZGlzIA0KZGV2aWNlIHdsYW4gDQoNClRoZXNlIGZpbGVz IEkgY29weSBpbiAvYm9vdC9rZXJuZWwvIA0KDQoNCkFuZCBlZGl0IC9ib290L2xvYWRlci5jb25m IA0KYXI1NTEzX3N5c19sb2FkPSJZRVMiIA0KbmV0NTUxM19jYXRfbG9hZD0iWUVTIiANCg0KVGhl biByZWJvb3QgOy0pIA0KDQoNCkJVVCEhISANCg0KaWYgSSBkbzoNCg0KaWZjb25maWcgbmRpczAg c3NpZCBXaS1GaS41LXN0YXJzIGNoYW5uZWwgMTEgbWVkaWEgRFMvMTFNYnBzIG1lZGlhb3B0IGhv c3RhcCB1cCBzdGF0aW9ubmFtZSAiV2ktRmkuNS1zdGFycyIgDQoNCkkgaGF2ZToNCiANCk5ESVMw OiBzZXR0aW5nIEJTU0lEIGZhaWxlZDogNDUgDQppZmNvbmZpZzogU0lPQ1M4MDIxMTogSW52YWxp ZCBhcmd1bWVudCANCg0KDQpJIGFzayBpbiBzdXBwb3J0LiBUaGV5IHNhaWQgd2hhdCBORElTIGNv dWRuJ3QgY2hhbmdlZCBTU0lEIGJlY2F1c2UgTkRJUyBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydCB0aGUgV2lybGVzcy1D YXJkLg== --_----------=_1188235111871541 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="RUS.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment x+Tw4PHy4vPp8uUuLi4g7/Du5OXr++Lg/iDt6OblIO/l8OX36PHr5e3z/iDu7+Xw4Pbo/iDiIOjy 7uPlIO746OHq4C4uLiDi5fH8IMjt5fIg7+Xw5eru7+DrLi4uIOIg97jsIO/w7uHr5ezgPyANCg0K DQrS4OouLi4g7eD37bjsIO/u7+7w/+Tq8y4uLi4gDQrR8u7o8iD36PHy4P8g1PD+9eAgDQrB5fC4 7CDq4Pfg5ewg4ujt5O7i++kg5PDg6eLl8CDu8iDx/uTgIA0KxODr/PjlIPDg8e/g6u7i++Lg5ewg 7+7r8/fg5ewg8uDq6OUg9ODp6/sgDQoNCmFyNTUxMy5zeXMgDQpuZXQ1NTEzLmNhdCANCm5ldDU1 MTMuaW5mIA0KDQrE4Ov8+OUg7/Du4+7t/+jsIOj1IPfl8OXnIG5kaXNnZW4gDQojIG5kaXNlZ24g YXI1NTEzLnN5cyBuZXQ1NTEzLmluZiBuZXQ1NTEzLmNhdCANCg0K4iDw5efz6/zy4PLlIO/u6/P3 4OXsIOTi4CDs7uTz6/8gLuruIA0KYXI1NTEzLnN5cy5rbyANCm5ldDU1MTMuY2F0LmtvIA0KDQri IP3y7iDi8OXs/yDq7uzv6Ovo7CD/5PDuIPEg8uDq6OzoIO/g8ODs5fLw4OzoIA0Kb3B0aW9ucyBO RElTQVBJIA0KZGV2aWNlIG5kaXMgDQpkZXZpY2Ugd2xhbiANCg0K7+7x6+Ug6u7v6PDz5ewg5OLg IOzu5PPr/yDiIO/g7+rzIC9ib290L2tlcm5lbC8gDQroIOIgL2Jvb3QvbG9hZGVyLmNvbmYg7+j4 6OwgDQphcjU1MTNfc3lzX2xvYWQ9IllFUyIgDQpuZXQ1NTEzX2NhdF9sb2FkPSJZRVMiIA0KDQri 8bguLi4g8OXh8/IgDQoNCv3y7iAi8fLg7eTg8PLt++kiIOzl8u7kIO/u5Orr/vfl7ej/Li4uIA0K DQry7uPk4CDx7/Dg+Oji4OXy8f8uLi4gDQrq4Oru4+4g1dMqIOru4+TgIO3g8fLw4Oji4OX4/CDt 7uLu5SDv7uvz9+Xt7e7lIPPx8vDu6fHy4u4gbmRpczAgDQpxdW90ZTogDQoNCg0KaWZjb25maWcg bmRpczAgc3NpZCBXaS1GaS41LXN0YXJzIGNoYW5uZWwgMTEgbWVkaWEgRFMvMTFNYnBzIG1lZGlh b3B0IGhvc3RhcCB1cCBzdGF0aW9ubmFtZSAiV2ktRmkuNS1zdGFycyIgDQoNCg0Kwvvh6OLg5fIg 8uDq8/4g9fDl7fwgDQpORElTMDogc2V0dGluZyBCU1NJRCBmYWlsZWQ6IDQ1IA0KaWZjb25maWc6 IFNJT0NTODAyMTE6IEludmFsaWQgYXJndW1lbnQgDQoNCg0Kwu7v8O7xLi4uIOzu5iD/IPe48u4g 7eUg5O7v7vLq6/736Os/IOjr6CD3uPLuIO3l7eDx8vDu6Os/IA0KDQoNCtHv8OD46OLg6yDiIPHz 7+7w8uUuIM7t6CDx7u7h+ejr6CD38u4gzcTI0SDt5SDv7uTl8Obo4uDl8iDx5fLl4vP18y4uLg0K DQrXuCDk5evg8vw/IA== --_----------=_1188235111871541-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 27 19:22:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7866C16A418 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:22:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from tinker.exit.com (tinker.exit.com [206.223.0.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F9513C442 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:22:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from jill.exit.com (jill.exit.com [206.223.0.4]) by tinker.exit.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7RIiYBu066358 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from jill.exit.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jill.exit.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7RIiYXA004549 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: (from frank@localhost) by jill.exit.com (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l7RIiYns004548 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) X-Authentication-Warning: jill.exit.com: frank set sender to frank@exit.com using -f From: Frank Mayhar To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Exit Consulting Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:44:33 -0700 Message-Id: <1188240273.84988.13.camel@jill.exit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.1/4076/Mon Aug 27 07:15:54 2007 on tinker.exit.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: Getrusage(2) weirdness. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: frank@exit.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:22:12 -0000 I recently had occasion to need the ru_maxrss field returned from getrusage(2) in Linux 2.6, which as it happens was not implemented. So I implemented it. In the process I wrote a test program to validate my implementation. I also tried running the test under various other operating systems, including FreeBSD 6-stable. Most systems don't implement the field (including Solaris and MacOSX), FreeBSD is one of the few that does. Only, it does so weirdly. You can find the test program at http://www.exit.com/Archives/Linux/getrusage-test.c The output should be pretty self-explanatory. If you run it under FreeBSD 6.2 (at least), you will find that it give inconsistent results. Something like the following: jill ~>./getrusage-test before 0 after: 0 1: rusage_self: FAIL flag 6 granddad 0, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 2372 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: PASS flag 3 dad 0, kid1 2372, kid2 2372, kid3 2372 kid4 2372 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: FAIL flag 3 dad 0, kid1 2372, kid2 2372, kid3 2372 kid4 2372 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS jill ~>./getrusage-test before 0 after: 968 1: rusage_self: FAIL flag 6 granddad 968, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 0 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: FAIL flag 3 dad 968, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 3572 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: PASS flag 3 dad 1820, kid1 3572, kid2 3572, kid3 3572 kid4 3572 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS jill ~>./getrusage-test before 0 after: 0 1: rusage_self: FAIL flag 6 granddad 0, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 2336 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: PASS flag 3 dad 1760, kid1 2336, kid2 2336, kid3 2336 kid4 2336 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: FAIL flag 3 dad 1760, kid1 2336, kid2 2336, kid3 2336 kid4 2336 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS jill ~>./getrusage-test before 0 after: 1144 1: rusage_self: PASS flag 6 granddad 1144, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 0 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: FAIL flag 3 dad 1144, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: FAIL flag 3 dad 1144, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS jill ~>./getrusage-test before 0 after: 0 1: rusage_self: FAIL flag 6 granddad 0, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 1936 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: PASS flag 3 dad 1760, kid1 1936, kid2 1936, kid3 1936 kid4 1936 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: FAIL flag 3 dad 1760, kid1 1936, kid2 1936, kid3 1936 kid4 1936 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS jill ~>./getrusage-test before 0 after: 0 1: rusage_self: FAIL flag 6 granddad 0, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 0 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: FAIL flag 3 dad 0, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 3052 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: PASS flag 3 dad 0, kid1 3052, kid2 3052, kid3 3052 kid4 3052 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS jill ~>./getrusage-test before 0 after: 0 1: rusage_self: FAIL flag 6 granddad 0, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 0 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: FAIL flag 3 dad 0, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 3208 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: PASS flag 3 dad 0, kid1 3208, kid2 3208, kid3 3208 kid4 3208 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS jill ~>./getrusage-test before 492 after: 492 1: rusage_self: FAIL flag 6 granddad 492, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 0 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: FAIL flag 3 dad 492, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: FAIL flag 3 dad 492, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS jill ~>./getrusage-test before 444 after: 444 1: rusage_self: FAIL flag 6 granddad 444, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 kid5 0 sz 1365 2: rusage_grandchildren: FAIL flag 3 dad 444, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 sz 2048 3: rusage_children: FAIL flag 3 dad 444, kid1 0, kid2 0, kid3 0 kid4 0 sz 4096 4: rusage_ignorechildren: PASS -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar* From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 28 16:53:46 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7823016A524; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:53:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4803413C45E; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:53:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DA646B38; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:53:45 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: sam In-Reply-To: <46CBE096.90805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070828175313.B90180@fledge.watson.org> References: <46C55191.2050205@gmail.com> <20070821145603.L50579@fledge.watson.org> <46CAF217.7040204@gmail.com> <20070821151108.Y53914@fledge.watson.org> <46CAF4E9.2030700@gmail.com> <20070821152327.R53914@fledge.watson.org> <46CBE096.90805@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, trustedbsd-audit@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-audit@freebsd.org Subject: Re: praudit parse with gnu grep X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:53:46 -0000 On Wed, 22 Aug 2007, sam wrote: >> Index: praudit.c >> =================================================================== >> RCS file: /data/fbsd-cvs/ncvs/src/contrib/openbsm/bin/praudit/praudit.c,v >> retrieving revision 1.1.1.3 >> diff -u -r1.1.1.3 praudit.c >> --- praudit.c 16 Apr 2007 15:36:57 -0000 1.1.1.3 >> +++ praudit.c 21 Aug 2007 14:26:43 -0000 >> @@ -107,6 +107,7 @@ >> free(buf); >> if (oneline) >> printf("\n"); >> + fflush(stdout); >> } >> return (0); >> } > > my big thanks this patch is working Vladimir, I've merged this change into OpenBSM, and it will appear in the next release. Thanks, Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 28 21:27:09 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08B8D16A420 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tgrenier@juniper.net) Received: from smtpb.juniper.net (smtpb.juniper.net [207.17.137.119]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E5F13C46C for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:27:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tgrenier@juniper.net) Received: from unknown (HELO proton.jnpr.net) ([10.10.2.37]) by smtpb.juniper.net with ESMTP; 28 Aug 2007 13:58:26 -0700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:58:17 -0400 Message-ID: <9BD5D7887235424FA97DFC223CAE3C280A631DD1@proton.jnpr.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: is there any up to date info on how to write simple drivers for the FBSD 6.1 kernel ? Thread-Index: AcfptiieegU4N2lqQCuOYwTLKyUfaA== From: "Thierry Grenier" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: is there any up to date info on how to write simple drivers for the FBSD 6.1 kernel ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:27:09 -0000 Thanks, Thierry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 28 21:51:55 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A53DE16A417 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:51:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.179]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139BB13C45E for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:51:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from dslb-088-066-017-000.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.66.17.0] (helo=amd64.laiers.local) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwh2-1IQ8mJ1Ftv-0000oZ; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:39:15 +0200 From: Max Laier Organization: FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:39:02 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <9BD5D7887235424FA97DFC223CAE3C280A631DD1@proton.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <9BD5D7887235424FA97DFC223CAE3C280A631DD1@proton.jnpr.net> X-Face: ,,8R(x[kmU]tKN@>gtH1yQE4aslGdu+2]; R]*pL,U>^H?)gW@49@wdJ`H<=?utf-8?q?=25=7D*=5FBD=0A=09U=5For=3D=5CmOZf764=26nYj=3DJYbR1PW0ud?=>|!~,,CPC.1-D$FG@0h3#'5"k{V]a~.<=?utf-8?q?mZ=7D44=23Se=7Em=0A=09Fe=7E=5C=5DX5B=5D=5Fxj?=(ykz9QKMw_l0C2AQ]}Ym8)fU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1402598.RKlbIe2d7J"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200708282339.14392.max@love2party.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+d66iiNGc74YbDR6Yhin8BHGI5kRucZbGQUZu Jwkew9uqql0SATEhnItzHg4CpQukPlgbAk3DaMdqpGDpi1q7Bw ExUJ/pXW6m+Cs7kUcpoyW+Qy26Xnh51ARnYvJFyuw4= Cc: Thierry Grenier Subject: Re: is there any up to date info on how to write simple drivers for the FBSD 6.1 kernel ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:51:55 -0000 --nextPart1402598.RKlbIe2d7J Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I suggest looking at John-Mark Gurney's 2006 BSDCan presentation: http://www.bsdcan.org/2006/papers/freebsd.device.driver.slides.pdf http://www.bsdcan.org/2006/papers/freebsd.driver.pdf =2D-=20 /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News --nextPart1402598.RKlbIe2d7J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBG1JYCXyyEoT62BG0RAvzoAJwIvTjUmENqx8Wry+7RIfawgPUFlwCfaMHy V7ysctD5UC6TdY/taU2AfQE= =gZT2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1402598.RKlbIe2d7J-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 29 05:11:04 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 083E116A41B for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:11:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from samflanker@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCD913C45A for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:11:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from samflanker@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so63222nfb for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:10:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Spc6hoRjyRsj58GRc+g1bIQAcZnHs39EmKJdMP26xzN3YGkYzUxQh3bAkz+zlFSP8TlkGQsY1+KBHdvuPHex5RqoOQYht8cSB2n3yD+kEnJBPnAIT4p/21RRJCBDj4UzWRm1oqkk2H1HOU9pNV0x6x9sCYwCgZ2sdQ2pXUpHz8A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=QaXSwXo9XOOFilE6u3/A68JR2SSHX+92i90cdorwEFDVHKx0DO/yAGk+3mEKb68Hrc4z2+tHvO1Ylr69uKLdGpTtbxSmHXm3YJ3tD8vdMQRexj+R3e2+JaEB+jYMmD50+v5aJtDmoknStA4sgAv9FWq3GxJVRd/u8Ar5ixf8fOU= Received: by 10.78.123.5 with SMTP id v5mr87074huc.1188364255179; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.185? ( [213.152.137.35]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 32sm5329712hui.2007.08.28.22.10.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46D4FFC4.40101@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:10:28 +0400 From: sam User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <46C55191.2050205@gmail.com> <20070821145603.L50579@fledge.watson.org> <46CAF217.7040204@gmail.com> <20070821151108.Y53914@fledge.watson.org> <46CAF4E9.2030700@gmail.com> <20070821152327.R53914@fledge.watson.org> <46CBE096.90805@gmail.com> <20070828175313.B90180@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20070828175313.B90180@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, trustedbsd-audit@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-audit@freebsd.org Subject: Re: praudit parse with gnu grep X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:11:04 -0000 >>> RCS file: >>> /data/fbsd-cvs/ncvs/src/contrib/openbsm/bin/praudit/praudit.c,v >>> retrieving revision 1.1.1.3 >>> diff -u -r1.1.1.3 praudit.c >>> --- praudit.c 16 Apr 2007 15:36:57 -0000 1.1.1.3 >>> +++ praudit.c 21 Aug 2007 14:26:43 -0000 >>> @@ -107,6 +107,7 @@ >>> free(buf); >>> if (oneline) >>> printf("\n"); >>> + fflush(stdout); >>> } >>> return (0); >>> } >> >> my big thanks this patch is working > > Vladimir, > > I've merged this change into OpenBSM, and it will appear in the next > release. > > Thanks, > > Robert N M Watson > Computer Laboratory > University of Cambridge > Hello please add switcher comand_args parameter for enable/disable pipe-buffer /Vladimir Ermakov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 29 06:43:45 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 175E616A418 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:43:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulius.stakauskas@agservice.lt) Received: from pop.topocentras.lt (mail.topocentras.lt [213.197.158.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58DB113C457 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:43:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulius.stakauskas@agservice.lt) Received: (qmail 15467 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2007 09:14:57 +0300 Received: by simscan 1.3.1 ppid: 15460, pid: 15464, t: 0.0643s scanners:none Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.77?) (213.197.158.226) by mail.topocentras.lt with SMTP; 29 Aug 2007 09:14:57 +0300 Message-ID: <46D50F54.8020102@agservice.lt> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:16:52 +0300 From: Paulius Stakauskas User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (X11/20070723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: HP ProLiant DL385 G2 Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:43:45 -0000 Hi, I'm running FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE on this server. # dmesg|grep ciss ciss0: port 0x4000-0x40ff mem 0xfde00000-0xfdefffff,0xfddf0000-0xfddf0fff irq 18 at device 0.0 on pci6 ciss0: [GIANT-LOCKED] da0 at ciss0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da1 at ciss0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 # camcontrol devlist -v scbus0 on ciss0 bus 0: at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 (pass0,da0) at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 (pass1,da1) scbus1 on ciss0 bus 32: scbus-1 on xpt0 bus 0: < > at scbus-1 target -1 lun -1 (xpt0) For first everything seems to be fine, but when I mount da1 and try to copy for example /usr to it, the process takes about 1 hour to copy ~8GB. That's really slow. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 29 06:54:01 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B8116A504 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:54:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from samflanker@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C1213C459 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:54:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from samflanker@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so76134nfb for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:53:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jeQATcPtg0koYJELnuhAiTb+jmDY3DS90JPn9S4eOsadxULdI6qd1G5MAxi6fuYENuAo7geoOwOrXrABMLqKpCg+uxGJAVP26iDOzAN9ngeWpDlx/LkP8CtwOwx+lhTfa8q2jTKbsFhdLu3i9uZolCKoP9OX6u2W7HE5odkwAmE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=leJNhxXxG07J9tYg2Oa9KSKP12Dua5FL/5jF1SVQ91dy2/dNif1AlTpi/+tuupR34c6ViWLXY34rYldukaUBI0aM45mjrA/BwB4vUIwoc/ZIWS2uJp0kJD6PNpRR77asLzbh1qPOtq/CQqFuoYnEn8/8jZMz4wDoLq4y1YdGpWo= Received: by 10.78.129.16 with SMTP id b16mr128575hud.1188370439123; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.185? ( [213.152.137.35]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm5435650hud.2007.08.28.23.53.57 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46D517FE.8050806@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:53:50 +0400 From: sam User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <46C55191.2050205@gmail.com> <20070821145603.L50579@fledge.watson.org> <46CAF217.7040204@gmail.com> <20070821151108.Y53914@fledge.watson.org> <46CAF4E9.2030700@gmail.com> <20070821152327.R53914@fledge.watson.org> <46CBE096.90805@gmail.com> <20070828175313.B90180@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20070828175313.B90180@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: NetXMS witing to commit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:54:01 -0000 Hi, all. please appreciate my first port *NetXMS* http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/114495 *NetXMS* is new and rapidly developing monitoring system, released under GPL2 license. It can be used for monitoring entire IT infrastructure, starting with SNMP-capable hardware (like switches and routers) and ending with applications on your servers. *NetXMS* is an extremely reliable and powerful monitoring system, enabling you to improve your network availability and service levels. /Ermakov Vladimir From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 29 18:37:39 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC7716A421 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:37:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CE313C494 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:37:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IQSPx-0003Io-7K for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:37:29 +0200 Received: from host71-40-static.74-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([81.74.40.71]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:37:29 +0200 Received: from lapo by host71-40-static.74-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:37:29 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Lapo Luchini Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:37:10 +0200 Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <4232198F.5030705@kfu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host71-40-static.74-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.2; en-US; rv:1.8.0.13) Gecko/20070809 Thunderbird/1.5.0.13 Mnenhy/0.7.4.0 In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 OpenPGP: id=C8F252FB; url=http://www.lapo.it/pgpkey.txt Sender: news Subject: Re: 6to4, stf and shoebox NAT routers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:37:39 -0000 Hajimu UMEMOTO wrote: > lapo> Does you patch address incoming packets too? > > Yes, it should address incoming packets. > [...] > How do you configure your stf interface? You need to assign a 6to4 > address which is derived from the IPv4 global address assigned to the > NAT box. > And you need to set net.link.stf.no_addr4check to 1. > Is it okay? I had prepared a beautiful and very long explanation of the test I did. But just a few seconds before hitting the "send" button I decided to cross-check the "sysctl net.inet6.ip6" on the two boxes and have noticed I have ipfw active in the natted one.... Sometimes, when doing "strange" things such as patching the kernel and using tunneled IPv6 behind a NAT... one can easily forget to check more MUNDANE & EASY reasons for things, such as tcpdump shows the incoming packet BEFORE ipfw happily THROWS THEM AWAY for long-forgotten rules that someday I did myself write and didn't include protocol 41. Lesson taken. Oh well, at least the problem is solved, and I'm back and running on the IPv6 ;-) I hope your patch is accepted upstream, because in these times of IPv4 scarcity NAT-ted boxes will be more and more common and unfortunately not every NAT knows about IPv6, and even if it does, like mine do, it may only support normal tunnels and not 6to4 configuration, and even a NAT-ted FreeBSD box can come to the rescue ;-) Lapo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 06:41:45 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5034A16A420 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:41:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xistence@0x58.com) Received: from mailexchange.osnn.net (1e.66.5646.static.theplanet.com [70.86.102.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2663713C458 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:41:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xistence@0x58.com) Received: (qmail 4353 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2007 06:10:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.10.10.252?) (xistence@0x58.com@68.228.228.224) by mailexchange.osnn.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2007 06:10:59 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--306117045; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Message-Id: <5BCF0049-E9F7-4A28-98FC-39D75AC56044@0x58.com> From: Bert JW Regeer Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:14:40 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD + D-Link DWL-G520M X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:41:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1--306117045 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Nemesis stars wrote: > Hi. > > I was install FreBSD > > > Next I download Windowds driver: > > ar5513.sys > net5513.cat > net5513.inf > > > > Next I make it > > # ndisegn ar5513.sys net5513.inf net5513.cat > > > in result - I have that : > > ar5513.sys.ko > net5513.cat.ko > > > Then I make kernel with: > > options NDISAPI > device ndis > device wlan > > These files I copy in /boot/kernel/ > > > And edit /boot/loader.conf > ar5513_sys_load="YES" > net5513_cat_load="YES" > > Then reboot ;-) > > > BUT!!! > > if I do: > > ifconfig ndis0 ssid Wi-Fi.5-stars channel 11 media DS/11Mbps > mediaopt hostap up stationname "Wi-Fi.5-stars" > > I have: > > NDIS0: setting BSSID failed: 45 > ifconfig: SIOCS80211: Invalid argument > > > I ask in support. They said what NDIS coudn't changed SSID because > NDIS not support the Wirless-Card. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" According to this thread: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd- hardware/2007-May/004426.html Sam was working on the chipset that is in that card. Contact him and see if he can help you out getting it working natively. I don't believe you can set up hostap's with NDIS wrapper. Bert JW Regeer --Apple-Mail-1--306117045-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 12:00:55 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B3F16A420 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:00:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dn77881188@googlemail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16A913C459 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:00:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dn77881188@googlemail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l8so357809nzf for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 05:00:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=LfIszzQIDiKOUiDvA7VXyKPo6Put45QBgglxpM+yoOiksm4CQIANxaNHbwqkWCjjmlQBaBx8nTpS/RF77ZqyixR+CqbacQlXiqYGFg6QabdBu/mI2esOvmgiQxjO3fBA97Lq01gqxHhdLoSU1vV4zvBAB1pkguaEg6uZdC78Yjo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=WXeJTagGAA5/0Oe+Bbg9BN6K2YylOpwhtrdLgzFoUAJdS7o5ztZdLFIcUxkk6wYqsX8lyA6LD5j7YJ37tTtVp9sJZAwWDIuZSuhDt56jNcGd41wUZ2UsYbqw0blCyL6cJGgKUpkzmLom6OlcD3+vjS0OfxTJ50AvRoaa3235zwk= Received: by 10.114.103.1 with SMTP id a1mr5685wac.1188473017594; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.159.11 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:23:37 +0100 From: "djembe nazar" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:00:55 -0000 I am trying to work out a way to do the following for a "FreeBSD teaching environment": The intention is to have two terminals, one above the other. The bottom terminal shows one's own commands and output like an ordinary xterm whilst the top terminal shows the commands and output of a peer (such as an instructor). The pupil is not allowed to enter commands into the instructor's terminal, it simply shows what the instructor typed and the resulting output of the commands. The same is true of the reverse. The overall concept is to allow an instructor to tutor a pupil over an appropriate medium such as instant messaging whilst allowing the pupil to learn by example with a very hands-on approach. In the case of a standard 1-to-1 teaching environment, the instructor would see his/her own terminal on the bottom and the terminal of the pupil on the top. The pupil would see the reverse (instructor's terminal above, his/her own terminal below). pupil sees: instructor sees: +-----------------+ +-----------------+ | INSTRUCTOR TERM | | PUPIL TERM | +-----------------+ +-----------------+ | PUPIL TERM | | INSTRUCTOR TERM | +-----------------+ +-----------------+ I do not understand how to achieve this. Is this even possible given standard unix security with regards to hijacking the tty devices of other users on the system? -- D.N From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 12:13:08 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E6D16A417 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:13:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dn77881188@googlemail.com) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC69C13C48D for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:13:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dn77881188@googlemail.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so139584rvb for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 05:12:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=LfIszzQIDiKOUiDvA7VXyKPo6Put45QBgglxpM+yoOiksm4CQIANxaNHbwqkWCjjmlQBaBx8nTpS/RF77ZqyixR+CqbacQlXiqYGFg6QabdBu/mI2esOvmgiQxjO3fBA97Lq01gqxHhdLoSU1vV4zvBAB1pkguaEg6uZdC78Yjo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=WXeJTagGAA5/0Oe+Bbg9BN6K2YylOpwhtrdLgzFoUAJdS7o5ztZdLFIcUxkk6wYqsX8lyA6LD5j7YJ37tTtVp9sJZAwWDIuZSuhDt56jNcGd41wUZ2UsYbqw0blCyL6cJGgKUpkzmLom6OlcD3+vjS0OfxTJ50AvRoaa3235zwk= Received: by 10.114.103.1 with SMTP id a1mr5685wac.1188473017594; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.159.11 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:23:37 +0100 From: "djembe nazar" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:13:08 -0000 I am trying to work out a way to do the following for a "FreeBSD teaching environment": The intention is to have two terminals, one above the other. The bottom terminal shows one's own commands and output like an ordinary xterm whilst the top terminal shows the commands and output of a peer (such as an instructor). The pupil is not allowed to enter commands into the instructor's terminal, it simply shows what the instructor typed and the resulting output of the commands. The same is true of the reverse. The overall concept is to allow an instructor to tutor a pupil over an appropriate medium such as instant messaging whilst allowing the pupil to learn by example with a very hands-on approach. In the case of a standard 1-to-1 teaching environment, the instructor would see his/her own terminal on the bottom and the terminal of the pupil on the top. The pupil would see the reverse (instructor's terminal above, his/her own terminal below). pupil sees: instructor sees: +-----------------+ +-----------------+ | INSTRUCTOR TERM | | PUPIL TERM | +-----------------+ +-----------------+ | PUPIL TERM | | INSTRUCTOR TERM | +-----------------+ +-----------------+ I do not understand how to achieve this. Is this even possible given standard unix security with regards to hijacking the tty devices of other users on the system? -- D.N From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 12:51:09 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7AE716A417 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:51:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) Received: from simias.hd.free.fr (vit94-5-82-243-51-8.fbx.proxad.net [82.243.51.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D16613C45B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:51:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) Received: from simias.hd.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by simias.hd.free.fr (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7UCN1kX013076; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:23:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) Received: (from simias@localhost) by simias.hd.free.fr (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l7UCMjr5013075; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:22:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: simias.hd.free.fr: simias set sender to simias.n@gmail.com using -f From: Simias To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:22:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: (djembe nazar's message of "Thu\, 30 Aug 2007 12\:23\:37 +0100") Message-ID: <86d4x52ovt.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: djembe nazar Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:51:10 -0000 "djembe nazar" writes: > I am trying to work out a way to do the following for a > "FreeBSD teaching environment": > > The intention is to have two terminals, one above the other. > The bottom terminal shows one's own commands and output like > an ordinary xterm whilst the top terminal shows the commands > and output of a peer (such as an instructor). > > The pupil is not allowed to enter commands into the > instructor's terminal, it simply shows what the instructor > typed and the resulting output of the commands. The same > is true of the reverse. The overall concept is to allow an > instructor to tutor a pupil over an appropriate medium such > as instant messaging whilst allowing the pupil to learn by > example with a very hands-on approach. > > In the case of a standard 1-to-1 teaching environment, the > instructor would see his/her own terminal on the bottom and > the terminal of the pupil on the top. The pupil would see the > reverse (instructor's terminal above, his/her own terminal > below). > > pupil sees: instructor sees: > +-----------------+ +-----------------+ > | INSTRUCTOR TERM | | PUPIL TERM | > +-----------------+ +-----------------+ > | PUPIL TERM | | INSTRUCTOR TERM | > +-----------------+ +-----------------+ > > I do not understand how to achieve this. Is this even possible > given standard unix security with regards to hijacking the > tty devices of other users on the system? > I think you may achieve this with GNU Screen, since it supports multi users sessions (look for addacl and aclchg in the screen(1) man page). If you want to do that by yourself, I'd use a client/server architecture, the instructor would start a program like script(1), but instead of writing to a file, it'd write to a socket, and the pupil would start a client version that will just read the socket and output what it receives. Note that it probably won't work very well if the two terminals have different size and/or different Termcaps (especially with curses apps like vi or emacs). It's quite trivial to implement, but maybe it won't meet your requirements. -- Simias From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 13:04:48 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D0C16A419 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:04:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tom@tomjudge.com) Received: from s200aog12.obsmtp.com (s200aog12.obsmtp.com [207.126.144.126]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C141313C428 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:04:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tom@tomjudge.com) Received: from source ([217.206.187.80]) by eu1sys200aob012.postini.com ([207.126.147.11]) with SMTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:04:19 UTC Received: from [10.0.0.89] (bill.mintel.co.uk [10.0.0.89]) by rodney.mintel.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7E018142E; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:04:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46D6C051.5090101@tomjudge.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:04:17 +0100 From: Tom Judge User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Simias References: <86d4x52ovt.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> In-Reply-To: <86d4x52ovt.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, djembe nazar Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:04:48 -0000 Simias wrote: > "djembe nazar" writes: > >> I am trying to work out a way to do the following for a >> "FreeBSD teaching environment": >> >> The intention is to have two terminals, one above the other. >> The bottom terminal shows one's own commands and output like >> an ordinary xterm whilst the top terminal shows the commands >> and output of a peer (such as an instructor). >> >> The pupil is not allowed to enter commands into the >> instructor's terminal, it simply shows what the instructor >> typed and the resulting output of the commands. The same >> is true of the reverse. The overall concept is to allow an >> instructor to tutor a pupil over an appropriate medium such >> as instant messaging whilst allowing the pupil to learn by >> example with a very hands-on approach. >> >> In the case of a standard 1-to-1 teaching environment, the >> instructor would see his/her own terminal on the bottom and >> the terminal of the pupil on the top. The pupil would see the >> reverse (instructor's terminal above, his/her own terminal >> below). >> >> pupil sees: instructor sees: >> +-----------------+ +-----------------+ >> | INSTRUCTOR TERM | | PUPIL TERM | >> +-----------------+ +-----------------+ >> | PUPIL TERM | | INSTRUCTOR TERM | >> +-----------------+ +-----------------+ >> >> I do not understand how to achieve this. Is this even possible >> given standard unix security with regards to hijacking the >> tty devices of other users on the system? >> > > I think you may achieve this with GNU Screen, since it supports multi > users sessions (look for addacl and aclchg in the screen(1) man page). > > If you want to do that by yourself, I'd use a client/server > architecture, the instructor would start a program like script(1), but > instead of writing to a file, it'd write to a socket, and the pupil > would start a client version that will just read the socket and output > what it receives. Note that it probably won't work very well if the two > terminals have different size and/or different Termcaps (especially with > curses apps like vi or emacs). > > It's quite trivial to implement, but maybe it won't meet your requirements. > The other option might be to use the terminal snooping option in the kernel. I have never used it but it sounds like what you may want. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 13:30:55 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4757516A419 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from thin.berklix.org (thin.berklix.org [194.246.123.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7DC413C46C for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A7356.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.115.86]) (authenticated bits=128) by thin.berklix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l7UCrW93032873; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:53:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l7UCrPBt058193; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:53:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost.js.berklix.net [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7UCrPM8006804; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:53:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200708301253.l7UCrPM8006804@fire.js.berklix.net> To: "djembe nazar" From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen. User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://berklix.com/~jhs/cv/ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:53:25 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:30:55 -0000 "djembe nazar" wrote: > I am trying to work out a way to do the following for a > "FreeBSD teaching environment": Hi, I only quicklu skimmed your post, dont have time for optimal answer, but be aware of these commands/ tools: script tail -f typescript xauth xhost There's probaly also other tools you could plunder for ideas/ code in eg /usr/src/usr.bin/talk /usr/ports/irc/irc/ etc. - -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch=mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 13:41:52 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD9616A418 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:41:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F4813C480 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:41:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from deconet115-230.bfh.ch ([147.87.115.230] helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQkGg-00082h-1E; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:41:06 +0200 Message-ID: <46D6C8EA.7000809@gahr.ch> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:40:58 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: djembe nazar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://www.gahr.ch/pgp Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig4FE0FA4EEF7A483B8C6A1CE6" X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gahr.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:41:52 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig4FE0FA4EEF7A483B8C6A1CE6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable djembe nazar wrote: > I am trying to work out a way to do the following for a > "FreeBSD teaching environment": >=20 > The intention is to have two terminals, one above the other. > The bottom terminal shows one's own commands and output like > an ordinary xterm whilst the top terminal shows the commands > and output of a peer (such as an instructor). >=20 > The pupil is not allowed to enter commands into the > instructor's terminal, it simply shows what the instructor > typed and the resulting output of the commands. The same > is true of the reverse. The overall concept is to allow an > instructor to tutor a pupil over an appropriate medium such > as instant messaging whilst allowing the pupil to learn by > example with a very hands-on approach. >=20 > In the case of a standard 1-to-1 teaching environment, the > instructor would see his/her own terminal on the bottom and > the terminal of the pupil on the top. The pupil would see the > reverse (instructor's terminal above, his/her own terminal > below). >=20 > pupil sees: instructor sees: > +-----------------+ +-----------------+ > | INSTRUCTOR TERM | | PUPIL TERM | > +-----------------+ +-----------------+ > | PUPIL TERM | | INSTRUCTOR TERM | > +-----------------+ +-----------------+ >=20 > I do not understand how to achieve this. Is this even possible > given standard unix security with regards to hijacking the > tty devices of other users on the system? A solution would be to use a combination of GNU screen(1) [sysutils/screen] and watch(8) [in the base system]. Screen would be used to multiplex a terminal in two upper and lower regions, with watch would be used to see the output of another terminal. I never used it on remote terminals, but you could solve the problem by letting both the teacher and the pupil connect to a common remote machine, say lecture-machine. Once connected (via SSH), both would use screen(1) to create two pseudo multiplexed terminals, e.g.: piter p3 :0:S.0 3:38PM - /bin/tcsh piter p4 :0:S.1 3:38PM - /bin/tcsh It would then suffice for both to open watch(8) and watch on one of each other's screen pseudo terminals. (not tested)... Hope this helps, >=20 > -- > D.N > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" --=20 Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp --------------enig4FE0FA4EEF7A483B8C6A1CE6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG1sjuwMJqmJVx944RCsENAJ43umK3sl+Tx8TM396ZCypL++6u6gCgjvt9 HTtYQHWgzwY1hFidesrf0+s= =znLu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig4FE0FA4EEF7A483B8C6A1CE6-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 14:08:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841F816A420 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:08:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) Received: from simias.hd.free.fr (vit94-5-82-243-51-8.fbx.proxad.net [82.243.51.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B4913C45E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:08:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) Received: from simias.hd.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by simias.hd.free.fr (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7UE8Ppb013539; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:08:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) Received: (from simias@localhost) by simias.hd.free.fr (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l7UE88vY013538; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:08:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: simias.hd.free.fr: simias set sender to simias.n@gmail.com using -f From: Simias To: Tom Judge References: <86d4x52ovt.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> <46D6C051.5090101@tomjudge.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:07:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: <46D6C051.5090101@tomjudge.com> (Tom Judge's message of "Thu\, 30 Aug 2007 14\:04\:17 +0100") Message-ID: <86tzqhxghy.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, djembe nazar Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:08:43 -0000 Tom Judge writes: > Simias wrote: >> "djembe nazar" writes: >> >>> I am trying to work out a way to do the following for a >>> "FreeBSD teaching environment": >>> >>> The intention is to have two terminals, one above the other. >>> The bottom terminal shows one's own commands and output like >>> an ordinary xterm whilst the top terminal shows the commands >>> and output of a peer (such as an instructor). >>> >>> The pupil is not allowed to enter commands into the >>> instructor's terminal, it simply shows what the instructor >>> typed and the resulting output of the commands. The same >>> is true of the reverse. The overall concept is to allow an >>> instructor to tutor a pupil over an appropriate medium such >>> as instant messaging whilst allowing the pupil to learn by >>> example with a very hands-on approach. >>> >>> In the case of a standard 1-to-1 teaching environment, the >>> instructor would see his/her own terminal on the bottom and >>> the terminal of the pupil on the top. The pupil would see the >>> reverse (instructor's terminal above, his/her own terminal >>> below). >>> >>> pupil sees: instructor sees: >>> +-----------------+ +-----------------+ >>> | INSTRUCTOR TERM | | PUPIL TERM | >>> +-----------------+ +-----------------+ >>> | PUPIL TERM | | INSTRUCTOR TERM | >>> +-----------------+ +-----------------+ >>> >>> I do not understand how to achieve this. Is this even possible >>> given standard unix security with regards to hijacking the >>> tty devices of other users on the system? >>> >> >> I think you may achieve this with GNU Screen, since it supports multi >> users sessions (look for addacl and aclchg in the screen(1) man page). >> >> If you want to do that by yourself, I'd use a client/server >> architecture, the instructor would start a program like script(1), but >> instead of writing to a file, it'd write to a socket, and the pupil >> would start a client version that will just read the socket and output >> what it receives. Note that it probably won't work very well if the two >> terminals have different size and/or different Termcaps (especially with >> curses apps like vi or emacs). >> >> It's quite trivial to implement, but maybe it won't meet your requirements. >> > > The other option might be to use the terminal snooping option in the > kernel. I have never used it but it sounds like what you may want. > > Tom > Oh and I just thought about this quick solution: $ mkfifo foo $ script -f foo This will create a fifo called "foo" in the current directory and put the output of script(1) in it. Then on an other terminal you can $ cat foo To see what's happening in the first terminal. However, you'll probably still have strange results if both terminals are not identical. -- Simias From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 14:18:28 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0BE16A417 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:18:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dn77881188@googlemail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFB313C458 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:18:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dn77881188@googlemail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so612579waf for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:18:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=a9uL5lUdpWH08O+ek9IDG1OIs872WRuom5BExlRSZnHZhIQ1lhl6KAItWnJPgk7hW7QgVrbiUG5e4Y/tHpS7ucN22gLVTyASrzGxmTpNnTjxnxAB8VEpUBFCu08nw6//GZXtJLKL4UfSMfmJoD9drv61Ee7FcXW1GKZAfuLx8T8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=n0G5T5w15huQh0bGFOWqTS4sHIzag60jxHmqg/JyqcmfSEwzsnzgF76T/0+i6Ccgn0r5svs5+IFF3mPJoelqfK3n70HmmhHrN4o7RCO8lkxPGYDYR2cup1S31BT0J4d7Z4h4m5l0kyRig87onyB0npCvXpYvVLu0hPpud+jLsCc= Received: by 10.115.74.1 with SMTP id b1mr486561wal.1188483490795; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.159.11 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:18:10 +0100 From: "djembe nazar" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <86tzqhxghy.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <86d4x52ovt.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> <46D6C051.5090101@tomjudge.com> <86tzqhxghy.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:18:29 -0000 Thanks for all suggestions. GNU screen appears to be the most straightforward option as it handles the complexity of non-identical terminals. -- D.N From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 14:29:27 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D652116A417 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:29:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lordbyte@esperanza.rebooten.de) Received: from esperanza.rebooten.de (esperanza.rebooten.de [83.136.81.141]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775FE13C45A for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:29:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lordbyte@esperanza.rebooten.de) Received: from esperanza.rebooten.de (esperanza.rebooten.de [83.136.81.141]) by esperanza.rebooten.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l7UDndXC085858; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:49:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lordbyte@esperanza.rebooten.de) Received: (from lordbyte@localhost) by esperanza.rebooten.de (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l7UDndlM085857; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:49:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lordbyte) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:49:39 +0200 From: Markus Boelter To: Pietro Cerutti Message-ID: <20070830134936.GA84612@rebooten.de> References: <46D6C8EA.7000809@gahr.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46D6C8EA.7000809@gahr.ch> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, djembe nazar Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:29:27 -0000 Hi! > > The intention is to have two terminals, one above the other. > > The bottom terminal shows one's own commands and output like > > an ordinary xterm whilst the top terminal shows the commands > > and output of a peer (such as an instructor). You can also have a look at the "script" utility, maybe it's possible to make a "script" on the teacher machine, and a tail -f on the scriptfile on each pupil machine. (not testet) Cheers! Markus -- Markus Boelter From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 14:41:23 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7F7016A418 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:41:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D919F13C45E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:41:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CBD681CC02D; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:23:27 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: djembe nazar Message-ID: <20070830142327.GA47336@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <86d4x52ovt.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> <46D6C051.5090101@tomjudge.com> <86tzqhxghy.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:41:24 -0000 On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:18:10PM +0100, djembe nazar wrote: > Thanks for all suggestions. > > GNU screen appears to be the most straightforward > option as it handles the complexity of non-identical > terminals. And does it very badly, I might add. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 15:13:42 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7FF16A41B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:13:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from loukamenov@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D5E13C4B4 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:13:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from loukamenov@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k4so433630nfd for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:13:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nTDx6wmsF4/8OmLuRTiaHmgIsW2arpJQ1yc5TyCSTlzEe0Un4ooGUrQ//1PMO5jTkdTX199B0ESMX8EGLiy4Dg4lh24SBizpmUp2khNlbp1es+IvmjKFLrVTc4eTDUIt7KtHEJyUmLYOjyqTsg2zdw4nQJcLIkABqtCuCY5KNho= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=lh7Ox/IAPv6uKnOUmDWFBVsvjWiVdvWKvE5VVT1sWHa58m1r09Er8B98y80h7C+46EERA9Svx8jImVdtaSyNM0INtyy6CZQ9jMNm/efoYnGo4Azju9QvO9Icb1x96fEfZ0rlpxT+l644aJ3S8W1NeUkjeJm/qdW1SxYlEWtUCcc= Received: by 10.78.159.7 with SMTP id h7mr388750hue.1188485367268; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.21.4 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <76f962c60708300749hfa2ee44wa5ad5636b3a9d515@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:49:27 -0400 From: "Lou Kamenov" To: "Jeremy Chadwick" In-Reply-To: <20070830142327.GA47336@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <86d4x52ovt.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> <46D6C051.5090101@tomjudge.com> <86tzqhxghy.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> <20070830142327.GA47336@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, djembe nazar Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:13:42 -0000 On 8/30/07, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:18:10PM +0100, djembe nazar wrote: > > Thanks for all suggestions. > > > > GNU screen appears to be the most straightforward > > option as it handles the complexity of non-identical > > terminals. > > And does it very badly, I might add. watch + ssh and some scripting should be sufficient to do this. l From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 18:37:15 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A16A16A417 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:37:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from victorloureirolima@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.237]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E664413C49D for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:37:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from victorloureirolima@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l8so436656nzf for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:36:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=N3Ja9SE3MWMdT42udg2vDZ244j3xOgxKbhyTwwPhOKv67jdLnOOtnoW++igTUPoUbRDg1kUtyaa3GOIVp9oRkHh9CUygroCUr0+o2VOoLLnrND7sKyWHqPbM8TsYhNvfIp2uwFoC7cRiSmKKxdUdyCmpexH6wqTh8gE24xod56Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=DmNfcObNgsw9qYOmzViWvqz72JnAaPNcLxRJ4IoY8/gasziYkZ5bfyJycQ/8FAVlHjZq5IskxNkNLTevAEVdF0qmhzOUy7OwoBIWW8a6ATcEx7d//1JJK1HbIJPlcR8klU/1KCoyL61dx/l+RfdhnUbXtix0MMns54Lz05PQP8U= Received: by 10.114.176.1 with SMTP id y1mr61386wae.1188499016800; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.177.7 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:36:56 -0300 From: "Victor Loureiro Lima" To: "Lou Kamenov" In-Reply-To: <76f962c60708300749hfa2ee44wa5ad5636b3a9d515@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <86d4x52ovt.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> <46D6C051.5090101@tomjudge.com> <86tzqhxghy.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> <20070830142327.GA47336@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <76f962c60708300749hfa2ee44wa5ad5636b3a9d515@mail.gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick , djembe nazar Subject: Re: two-way terminal multiplexing X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:37:15 -0000 I would go for watch(8), I used it today, pretty straight forward... victor From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 19:20:27 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C51016A421 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:20:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1AE13C458 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:20:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from 80-218-180-150.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.218.180.150] helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQpYz-0001xw-5p for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:20:21 +0200 Message-ID: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:20:13 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://www.gahr.ch/pgp Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigA8CD44A5715AD0507819176D" X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gahr.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:20:27 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigA8CD44A5715AD0507819176D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable # make world WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD installation without also building and installing a new kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications before doing this. Bailing out now... *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with - root access - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" needs this sort of things? I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on the list.. have I missed something? --=20 Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp --------------enigA8CD44A5715AD0507819176D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG1xhxwMJqmJVx944RCpXvAKDOPpTfg0MD3Kaa3odKZ5b0Via1hACfRYM/ Y4nc+ahCADH2llMLJNQ2ji4= =klRD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigA8CD44A5715AD0507819176D-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 19:25:28 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18EF416A41B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:25:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5D213C45B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:25:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from dslb-088-066-029-033.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.66.29.33] (helo=amd64.laiers.local) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu5) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML25U-1IQpdO0OzZ-00084R; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:24:54 +0200 From: Max Laier Organization: FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:24:42 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> In-Reply-To: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> X-Face: ,,8R(x[kmU]tKN@>gtH1yQE4aslGdu+2]; R]*pL,U>^H?)gW@49@wdJ`H<=?utf-8?q?=25=7D*=5FBD=0A=09U=5For=3D=5CmOZf764=26nYj=3DJYbR1PW0ud?=>|!~,,CPC.1-D$FG@0h3#'5"k{V]a~.<=?utf-8?q?mZ=7D44=23Se=7Em=0A=09Fe=7E=5C=5DX5B=5D=5Fxj?=(ykz9QKMw_l0C2AQ]}Ym8)fU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1842125.i5dvl0MuKA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18Eapw2EyRFDmNLw/QNUyVLKVUFVSQB8Gt/zoL H6DXU95gjvmzNq/xPjs/j29/Vgzsrp7vYNzhX0qO+dx/LhGcdw 8nEpqANR2H4UzEvhhqmMyiIqFfNrY3MxhXo8fUFKx0= Cc: Pietro Cerutti Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:25:28 -0000 --nextPart1842125.i5dvl0MuKA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? > > I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on > the list.. have I missed something? And your complaint would be ... what exactly? =2D-=20 /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News --nextPart1842125.i5dvl0MuKA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBG1xmAXyyEoT62BG0RAlzlAJ9GwhBFsWzu7Clas2fPP+hLCGmDGwCdHwQw Os89Quv/ucnQFES0dxqEC7s= =mPz1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1842125.i5dvl0MuKA-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 19:28:10 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B833616A418 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:28:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45BA113C46B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:28:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from 80-218-180-150.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.218.180.150] helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQpfs-0003b7-Aj; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:28 +0200 Message-ID: <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max Laier References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> In-Reply-To: <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://www.gahr.ch/pgp Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig47133A9F5EA1E883C175647B" X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gahr.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:28:10 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig47133A9F5EA1E883C175647B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Max Laier wrote: > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >> # make world >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD >> installation without also building and installing a new >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications >> before doing this. >> >> Bailing out now... >> *** Error code 1 >> >> Stop in /usr/src. >> >> >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with >> - root access >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" >> needs this sort of things? >> >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going o= n >> the list.. have I missed something? >=20 > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? >=20 I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. --=20 Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp --------------enig47133A9F5EA1E883C175647B Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG1xocwMJqmJVx944RCqteAKCtU/2wL0WGxCbyFhmpZHPqr6ARSgCgyuNa WVB/R1Sb5TBdHOjFqnFMxX4= =MI9S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig47133A9F5EA1E883C175647B-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 19:35:21 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92A616A41A for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:35:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Jose-Marcio.Martins@ensmp.fr) Received: from cascavel.ensmp.fr (cascavel.ensmp.fr [194.214.158.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 743BA13C465 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:35:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Jose-Marcio.Martins@ensmp.fr) Received: from [192.168.12.3] (mar92-6-82-226-38-60.fbx.proxad.net [82.226.38.60]) (authenticated bits=0) by cascavel.ensmp.fr (8.14.0/8.14.0/JMMC-23/Mar/2006) with ESMTP id l7UJYP5B004392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:34:25 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <46D71BC1.4010508@ensmp.fr> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:34:25 +0200 From: Jose-Marcio Martins da Cruz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.12) Gecko/20070719 Fedora/1.0.9-2.fc6 pango-text SeaMonkey/1.0.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pietro Cerutti References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> In-Reply-To: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Miltered: at cascavel with ID 46D71BC1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail . ensmp . fr)! X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 46D71BC1.000 on cascavel : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: HAM Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Jose-Marcio.Martins@ensmp.fr List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:35:21 -0000 Pietro Cerutti wrote: > # make world > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? > > I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on > the list.. have I missed something? Take a look in the first, say, 20 lines of /usr/src/Makefile or read /usr/src/UPDATING From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 19:41:49 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1D116A41A for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:41:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A86513C46C for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:41:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from 80-218-180-150.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.218.180.150] helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQptV-0006aJ-SJ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:41:33 +0200 Message-ID: <46D71D65.3050901@gahr.ch> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:41:25 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jose-Marcio.Martins@ensmp.fr References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <46D71BC1.4010508@ensmp.fr> In-Reply-To: <46D71BC1.4010508@ensmp.fr> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://www.gahr.ch/pgp Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig3A99A552AF651AF093BBF4A4" X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gahr.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:41:50 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig3A99A552AF651AF093BBF4A4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jose-Marcio Martins da Cruz wrote: > Pietro Cerutti wrote: >> # make world >=20 >> >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with >> - root access >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" >> needs this sort of things? >> >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going o= n >> the list.. have I missed something? >=20 > Take a look in the first, say, 20 lines of /usr/src/Makefile or read > /usr/src/UPDATING # # $FreeBSD: src/Makefile,v 1.319.2.6 2007/03/28 08:46:02 ru Exp $ # # The user-driven targets are: # # universe - *Really* build *everything* (buildworld and # all kernels on all architectures). # buildworld - Rebuild *everything*, including glue to help do # upgrades. # installworld - Install everything built by "buildworld". # world - buildworld + installworld. # buildkernel - Rebuild the kernel and the kernel-modules. # installkernel - Install the kernel and the kernel-modules. # installkernel.debug # reinstallkernel - Reinstall the kernel and the kernel-modules. # reinstallkernel.debug # kernel - buildkernel + installkernel. # update - Convenient way to update your source tree (cvs). # check-old - Print a list of old files/directories in the syst= em. # delete-old - Delete obsolete files and directories interactive= ly. =2E.. so what? Can't find any info about this in /usr/src/UPDATING. Can you? I'm not saying that I can't figure out how to make world again. I just don't agree with the decision to put that stupid message in Makefile. I suppose that a person typing make world as root already knows what she's going to do. --=20 Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp --------------enig3A99A552AF651AF093BBF4A4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG1x1pwMJqmJVx944RCuLcAJ9SVNkE/sQBf4C0KfjvGaMKuIw8HQCdEbVI 3gyNvfripy5drYj2fcoMYYg= =Nn87 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig3A99A552AF651AF093BBF4A4-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 19:42:57 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E993A16A419 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (vpn.mired.org [66.92.153.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D70813C48E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: (qmail 82614 invoked by uid 1001); 30 Aug 2007 19:41:30 -0000 Received: from bhuda.mired.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bhuda.mired.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:41:29 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:41:29 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.9.1 (GTK+ 2.10.12; amd64-portbld-freebsd6.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.11 (Ladyburn) From: Mike Meyer Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:42:58 -0000 On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti wrote: > Max Laier wrote: > > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > >> # make world > >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > >> installation without also building and installing a new > >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > >> before doing this. > >> > >> Bailing out now... > >> *** Error code 1 > >> > >> Stop in /usr/src. > >> > >> > >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > >> - root access > >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > >> needs this sort of things? > >> > >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on > >> the list.. have I missed something? > > > > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > > > > I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to do.... http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 19:49:59 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD2316A41A for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:49:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@darklight.org.ru) Received: from darklight.org.ru (crsd-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:2d5::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5662913C457 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:49:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@darklight.org.ru) Received: from darklight.org.ru (yuri@darklight.org.ru [IPv6:::1]) by darklight.org.ru (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7UJnqfk069474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:49:52 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from yuri@darklight.org.ru) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=darklight.org.ru; s=darklight; t=1188503392; bh=/d15g0RgNKm5iIY+E3fFOl2h8YdizUi6Y/5lp 1Sp65Y=; h=Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To: User-Agent; b=cKw9S3kInqiqMPmJPJz3gyH113lK0SYc/nrahpM3me2+k6Uj2qV/ dzwO6u4/u1/I7MFIX8fgv6Ahhwu5i1gChoPDE2PEML4RYAGC/SP14PWbv2eNIdSNN91 MnSc3DkiMreJCuQuGseCsegOa7TvInbm5hzIBoGAoeD+dosoena8= Received: (from yuri@localhost) by darklight.org.ru (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l7UJnq7t069473 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:49:52 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from yuri@darklight.org.ru) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:49:52 +0400 From: Yuri Pankov To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20070830194952.GC46255@darklight.org.ru> References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Y7xTucakfITjPcLV" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:49:59 -0000 --Y7xTucakfITjPcLV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:41:29PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti wrote: >=20 > > Max Laier wrote: > > > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > > >> # make world > > >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > > >> installation without also building and installing a new > > >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > > >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > > >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > > >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > > >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > > >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > > >> before doing this. > > >> > > >> Bailing out now... > > >> *** Error code 1 > > >> > > >> Stop in /usr/src. > > >> > > >> > > >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > > >> - root access > > >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > > >> needs this sort of things? > > >> > > >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going= on > > >> the list.. have I missed something? > > >=20 > > > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > > >=20 > >=20 > > I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. >=20 > Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. >=20 > But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - > you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's > going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to > do.... >=20 > --=20 > Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/consulting.html > Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. Anyway, this change is 3 years old and you are complaining just now. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/Makefile.diff?r1=3Dtext&tr1=3D1.3= 00&r2=3Dtext&tr2=3D1.304 Yuri --Y7xTucakfITjPcLV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBG1x9gd59O7+JWaLoRAnE4AJ42pA7OsCtus7pkcm/9N2WXz5huvQCgus4I Cr4RkHmYJxk9OWsyJmwD48g= =kWNc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Y7xTucakfITjPcLV-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 19:50:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61BA116A418 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:50:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E727913C45B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:49:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from 80-218-180-150.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.218.180.150] helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQq1B-00084h-IB; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:49:29 +0200 Message-ID: <46D71F41.6010609@gahr.ch> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:49:21 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Meyer , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://www.gahr.ch/pgp Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig32ED7A218770EE81A7E586D9" X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gahr.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:50:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig32ED7A218770EE81A7E586D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike Meyer wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti wrote:= >=20 >> Max Laier wrote: >>> On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >>>> # make world >>>> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD >>>> installation without also building and installing a new >>>> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, >>>> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. >>>> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, >>>> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. >>>> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining >>>> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications >>>> before doing this. >>>> >>>> Bailing out now... >>>> *** Error code 1 >>>> >>>> Stop in /usr/src. >>>> >>>> >>>> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with >>>> - root access >>>> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" >>>> needs this sort of things? >>>> >>>> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going= on >>>> the list.. have I missed something? >>> And your complaint would be ... what exactly? >>> >> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. >=20 > Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. >=20 > But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - > you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's > going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to > do.... Even worse.. it doesn't tell you how to do what you tell him to do.. it doubts that maybe that's not what you really want to do! >=20 > Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9639D16A417 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:58:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C54013C474 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:58:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from 80-218-180-150.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.218.180.150] helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQq9A-0001S6-KK; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:57:44 +0200 Message-ID: <46D72130.6060309@gahr.ch> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:57:36 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://www.gahr.ch/pgp Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigEC1BF825EE2508CA874ADD91" X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gahr.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Max Laier , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:58:04 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigEC1BF825EE2508CA874ADD91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doug Barton wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >=20 >> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. >=20 > These changes were made because of the long history of user help > requests from people who aren't as smart as you who shot themselves in > the foot. If you don't need the protection, so much the better for you.= > We've given you the code, do what you will with it. I'm filling a bug report to add a similar "feature" to /bin/rm when called with the -f switch.... Just joking.. >=20 > Doug >=20 --=20 Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp --------------enigEC1BF825EE2508CA874ADD91 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG1yE0wMJqmJVx944RCmTDAJ415Kg4BHJVi6CiKv00WnBJPZdg8gCcCsuj RxGhRwYTw/QIqBWILCZpAC4= =Vgfe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigEC1BF825EE2508CA874ADD91-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 20:21:53 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0419916A420 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:21:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail2.fluidhosting.com (mx22.fluidhosting.com [204.14.89.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 968E713C45B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:21:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 16104 invoked by uid 399); 30 Aug 2007 19:53:50 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO slave.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2007 19:53:50 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:53:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Pietro Cerutti In-Reply-To: <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> Message-ID: References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 0xD5B2F0FB Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Cc: Max Laier , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:21:53 -0000 On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. These changes were made because of the long history of user help requests from people who aren't as smart as you who shot themselves in the foot. If you don't need the protection, so much the better for you. We've given you the code, do what you will with it. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 20:41:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 440D816A469 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:41:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash+freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1970113C46C for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:41:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash+freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5C41A000B0F for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:09:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at smtp.sd73.bc.ca Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id dRYHNvHbpFXy for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coal (s10.sbo [192.168.0.10]) by smtp.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453731A000B0D for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:09:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Freddie Cash Organization: School District 73 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:09:53 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> <46D71F41.6010609@gahr.ch> In-Reply-To: <46D71F41.6010609@gahr.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200708301309.53347.fjwcash+freebsd@gmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:41:05 -0000 On August 30, 2007 12:49 pm Pietro Cerutti wrote: > Mike Meyer wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti =20 wrote: > >> Max Laier wrote: > >>> On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > >>>> # make world > >>>> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > >>>> installation without also building and installing a new > >>>> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > >>>> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > >>>> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > >>>> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > >>>> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > >>>> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > >>>> before doing this. > >>>> > >>>> Bailing out now... > >>>> *** Error code 1 > >>>> > >>>> Stop in /usr/src. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > >>>> - root access > >>>> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > >>>> needs this sort of things? > >>>> > >>>> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd > >>>> going on the list.. have I missed something? > >>> > >>> And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > >> > >> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. > > > > Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. > > > > But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - > > you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's > > going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to > > do.... > > Even worse.. it doesn't tell you how to do what you tell him to do.. it > doubts that maybe that's not what you really want to do! =46rom the bit you quoted in your first post: =2D--------- Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. =C2=A0You should understand the implications before doing this. =2D--------- Tells you right there how to work around this warning. =2D-=20 =46reddie Cash, LPIC-2 CCNT CCLP Network Support Technician School District 73 (250) 377-HELP [377-4357] fjwcash+freebsd@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 20:41:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483DB16A46B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:41:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash+freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7BF13C48E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:41:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash+freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1593C1A000B11 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:09:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at smtp.sd73.bc.ca Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id uN3YMrIJU1w0 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coal (s10.sbo [192.168.0.10]) by smtp.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66FD11A000B0E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:09:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Freddie Cash Organization: School District 73 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:09:11 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200708301309.11353.fjwcash+freebsd@gmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:41:05 -0000 On August 30, 2007 12:41 pm Mike Meyer wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti wrote: > > Max Laier wrote: > > > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > > >> # make world > > >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > > >> installation without also building and installing a new > > >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > > >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > > >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > > >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > > >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > > >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > > >> before doing this. > > >> > > >> Bailing out now... > > >> *** Error code 1 > > >> > > >> Stop in /usr/src. > > >> > > >> > > >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > > >> - root access > > >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > > >> needs this sort of things? > > >> > > >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd > > >> going on the list.. have I missed something? > > > > > > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > > > > I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. > > Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. > > But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - > you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's > going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to > do.... =46rom the original post: =2D--------- Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. =A0You should understand the implications before doing this. =2D--------- What part in there doesn't make sense? :) It tells you right there "how=20 to do what we told it to do". Seems like a lot of whining over nothing. =2D-=20 =46reddie Cash, LPIC-2 CCNT CCLP Network Support Technician School District 73 (250) 377-HELP [377-4357] fjwcash+freebsd@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 20:47:46 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A294216A419 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:47:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29AAC13C48D for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:47:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from 80-218-180-150.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.218.180.150] helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQqvZ-00034E-53 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:47:45 +0200 Message-ID: <46D72CE8.8040008@gahr.ch> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:47:36 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://www.gahr.ch/pgp Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigC22BCF31D70C800B2EF3D123" X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gahr.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:47:46 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigC22BCF31D70C800B2EF3D123 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050504030305000502050006" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050504030305000502050006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matthieu Michaud wrote: >=20 > On Aug 30, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >=20 >> Doug Barton wrote: >>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >>> >>>> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. >>> >>> These changes were made because of the long history of user help >>> requests from people who aren't as smart as you who shot themselves i= n >>> the foot. If you don't need the protection, so much the better for yo= u. >>> We've given you the code, do what you will with it. >> >> I'm filling a bug report to add a similar "feature" to /bin/rm when >> called with the -f switch.... >> >> Just joking.. >=20 > mailing lists readers like I am aren't interested in your complaint > about feeling stupid. get rid of it with your psychatrist or by ignorin= g > warnings obvious to you. but, please, stop posting to inappropriate > lists or useless questions. (refering to you other recent post on > -questions) Mailing lists readers like me aren't interested in whatever you may think about me. Here we discuss FreeBSD, and I won't lower it down to a personal level with you. Period. Please elaborate this: "Refering to you other recent post on @question". >=20 > Matthieu --=20 Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp --------------050504030305000502050006 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuNC43IChG cmVlQlNEKQoKaUQ4REJRRkcxeXpKd01KcW1KVng5NDRSQ3E1NkFKNHcwSmtiTEJ5cWlWdFJO MExuRUcwb0NKMWF5d0NmU0p6Nwp1NDJ1NzM1b3ZoVmxpUThJZjdHdmlrST0KPUp0aHIKLS0t LS1FTkQgUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0tCgo= --------------050504030305000502050006-- --------------enigC22BCF31D70C800B2EF3D123 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG1yztwMJqmJVx944RChvTAJ9Fqi6nMTQV8MjCT/3lOmQy/eX+NwCggukB GLHt4bXirv4BBiE+7g30N3M= =Znjr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigC22BCF31D70C800B2EF3D123-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 22:32:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0604316A419 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:32:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erikt@midgard.homeip.net) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877B713C457 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:32:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erikt@midgard.homeip.net) Received: from c83-253-31-60.bredband.comhem.se ([83.253.31.60]:60687 helo=falcon.midgard.homeip.net) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1IQsK9-0006d0-3g for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:17:13 +0200 Received: (qmail 513 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2007 00:17:08 +0200 Received: from owl.midgard.homeip.net (10.1.5.7) by falcon.midgard.homeip.net with ESMTP; 31 Aug 2007 00:17:08 +0200 Received: (qmail 42969 invoked by uid 1001); 31 Aug 2007 00:17:08 +0200 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:17:08 +0200 From: Erik Trulsson To: Pietro Cerutti Message-ID: <20070830221708.GA42915@owl.midgard.homeip.net> Mail-Followup-To: Pietro Cerutti , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) X-Originating-IP: 83.253.31.60 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1IQsK9-0006d0-3g. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1IQsK9-0006d0-3g 8806d49e5dda545686b9b70e2de60927 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:32:43 -0000 On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 09:20:13PM +0200, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? Yes. Having root access does not imply any particular knowledge or experience. In older documentation (which might be used by the unwary) there are several references to 'make world'. This means that a person new to FreeBSD may well attempt to use 'make world' while (wrongly) believing it to be the correct thing to use and not being aware of the pitfalls with it. This is good to prevent. > > I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on > the list.. have I missed something? 'make world' has been deprecated and not-recommended for several years now. The correct sequence to upgrade is described in /usr/src/UPDATING and does not involve 'make world'. Personally I think the better solution would be to remove the 'world' target completely from the makefiles, but there is probably some good reason for why that has not been done. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 22:33:09 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840CC16A420 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:33:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1210D13C45D for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:33:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@gahr.ch) Received: from 80-218-180-150.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.218.180.150] helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IQsZX-00063j-JN; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:33:07 +0200 Message-ID: <46D74599.5020708@gahr.ch> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:32:57 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070808) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Trulsson , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <20070830221708.GA42915@owl.midgard.homeip.net> In-Reply-To: <20070830221708.GA42915@owl.midgard.homeip.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://www.gahr.ch/pgp Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig46629F755E76EEFA2C121DD2" X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gahr.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:33:09 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig46629F755E76EEFA2C121DD2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Erik Trulsson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 09:20:13PM +0200, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >> # make world >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD >> installation without also building and installing a new >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications >> before doing this. >> >> Bailing out now... >> *** Error code 1 >> >> Stop in /usr/src. >> >> >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with >> - root access >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" >> needs this sort of things? >=20 > Yes. Having root access does not imply any particular knowledge or > experience. =20 > In older documentation (which might be used by the unwary) there are > several references to 'make world'. >=20 > This means that a person new to FreeBSD may well attempt to use 'make w= orld' > while (wrongly) believing it to be the correct thing to use and not bei= ng > aware of the pitfalls with it. >=20 > This is good to prevent. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going o= n >> the list.. have I missed something? >=20 > 'make world' has been deprecated and not-recommended for several years = now. > The correct sequence to upgrade is described in /usr/src/UPDATING and d= oes > not involve 'make world'. That's why I noticed this warning only three years after its appearance..= =2E >=20 > Personally I think the better solution would be to remove the 'world' t= arget > completely from the makefiles, but there is probably some good reason f= or > why that has not been done. I quite agree with you --=20 Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp --------------enig46629F755E76EEFA2C121DD2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG10WfwMJqmJVx944RCm4lAKDLKeDM0qO0fH9W2C2NWTo1txqNcwCeNzdb YAzGDsxZ2n7H7ZzrXbHT/FU= =4oqY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig46629F755E76EEFA2C121DD2-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 23:41:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7674316A41A for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:41:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from ozlabs.org (ozlabs.org [203.10.76.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 383E913C442 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:41:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from dereel.lemis.com (ozlabs.org [203.10.76.45]) by ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E308DDD07; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:25:36 +1000 (EST) Received: by dereel.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 761C41A988D; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:25:59 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:25:59 +1000 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Pietro Cerutti Message-ID: <20070830232559.GG82744@dereel.lemis.com> References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="B8ONY/mu/bqBak9m" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5346-1370 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:41:26 -0000 --B8ONY/mu/bqBak9m Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, 30 August 2007 at 21:20:13 +0200, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation, kill your cat and burn your house down... > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? I'm sure they do, especially since things have changed. There are many good reasons for this change, but it saddens me. It used to be possible to run 'make world', and indeed we advertised how easy it was. But when problems crept in, instead of fixing them, we broke 'make world' up into small pieces. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers. --B8ONY/mu/bqBak9m Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG11IHIubykFB6QiMRAl/NAKCATxboT3/t+RgpbB4Hj1RbyTM4agCfTJYq aEcPzlqjuLkqPNKvScA0vkc= =iObo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --B8ONY/mu/bqBak9m-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 20:42:31 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD8C16A421 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:42:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthieu.michaud@epfl.ch) Received: from homer.epita.info (homer.epita.info [213.251.160.11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1B013C4CB for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:42:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthieu.michaud@epfl.ch) Received: from [172.16.31.10] (unknown [172.16.31.10]) by homer.epita.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A3B078C1F; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:25:22 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <46D72130.6060309@gahr.ch> References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> <46D72130.6060309@gahr.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Matthieu Michaud Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:26:00 +0200 To: Pietro Cerutti X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:15:43 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:42:31 -0000 On Aug 30, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > Doug Barton wrote: >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >> >>> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. >> >> These changes were made because of the long history of user help >> requests from people who aren't as smart as you who shot >> themselves in >> the foot. If you don't need the protection, so much the better for >> you. >> We've given you the code, do what you will with it. > > I'm filling a bug report to add a similar "feature" to /bin/rm when > called with the -f switch.... > > Just joking.. mailing lists readers like I am aren't interested in your complaint about feeling stupid. get rid of it with your psychatrist or by ignoring warnings obvious to you. but, please, stop posting to inappropriate lists or useless questions. (refering to you other recent post on -questions) Matthieu From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 30 21:47:18 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7062716A419 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:47:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: from smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4099D13C481 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:47:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (qmail 29050 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2007 21:20:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.238?) (jinmtb@sbcglobal.net@67.111.218.125 with plain) by smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2007 21:20:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: xyPvLToVM1lFDdgigf0Hrh3CJYzCs.AOLm3t9eDBNuy9Rm.IC5DNBndtpcfl0Ek7mbiUJDpwVg-- Message-ID: <46D734A1.2090700@george.lbl.gov> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:20:33 -0700 From: Jin Guojun User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20061027 X-Accept-Language: zh, zh-CN, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: threads@freebsd.org References: <46B245D5.1050606@george.lbl.gov> <20070803090530.GH2738@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> In-Reply-To: <20070803090530.GH2738@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:15:43 +0000 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How TLS is used in Kernel thread X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:47:18 -0000 By looking through _pthread_create() code and find it uses a magic cookie -- TLS -- created by rtld_allocate_tls(), and passed into kernel by sysarch() via _tcb_set() / _kcb_set(). The information seems to be set by rtld (ld-elf.so.1) in digest_phdr() under tag PT_TLS. But it is very magic for where the TLS object is created and how it is passed to digest_phdr(). The whole object passed into kernel (as sd.gsbase) looks like this: TCB: ______________________________ | TLS | TCB | |______________|_______________| Can someone give some basic exaplain on following questions? 1) What TLS stand for? 2) Where TLS object is created? (below is the tls assigned, but I couls not find where ph is from) case PT_TLS: obj->tlsindex = 1; obj->tlssize = ph->p_memsz; obj->tlsalign = ph->p_align; obj->tlsinitsize = ph->p_filesz; obj->tlsinit = (void*) ph->p_vaddr; 3) Where in kernel the TLS is used for thread operation? Thanks in advance, -Jin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 05:08:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC39216A418 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:08:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd4mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6853B13C457 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:08:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr6so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.21]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JNM005LAGSIZSE0@l-daemon> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml2so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.146]) by pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JNM00FHKGSJ3X00@pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JNM00AO6GSGI4T3@l-daemon> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:05:11 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <20070830220511.33954d21@soralx> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.10.0 (GTK+ 2.10.14; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> Cc: gahr@gahr.ch Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:08:13 -0000 > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? it says 2 very important things: -- `make world` will overwrite (keywords here) existing base system (very well known as the 'world') without you explicitly telling it to (i.e., no 'install' string visible anywhere in the command line, but that's actually what it does); -- kernel is outside the world (slightly counter-intuitive), and installing world before kernel _can_ be dangerous (anyone disagrees?). so yes, it is more user friendly but this change causes very little inconvenience, thus could be considered an improvement Enough said > I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going > on the list.. have I missed something? [SorAlx] ridin' VS1400 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 16:47:30 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F83716A419 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:47:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@miralink.com) Received: from plato.miralink.com (mail.miralink.com [70.103.185.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB6A13C47E for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:47:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@miralink.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plato.miralink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC2761A431 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plato.miralink.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (plato.miralink.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04687-05 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.40] (iago.office.miralink.com [10.0.0.40]) by plato.miralink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12701619CFB for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:47:05 -0700 From: Sean Bruno User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Fri Aug 31 09:47:06 2007 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.7877 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-DSPAM-Signature: 46d8460a11111542430122 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.499 tagged_above=-10 required=6.6 autolearn=ham tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.8, BAYES_00=-2.599, DSPAM_HAM=-0.1] X-Spam-Score: -4.499 X-Spam-Level: Subject: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:47:30 -0000 I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a couple of other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop routines if a utility is disabled, but apparently the check for enabled/disabled occurs much too early in the rc handling functions for the stop to fire off. I could investigate further, as I am sure that it's a fairly easy fix to allow the stop functions to be invoked regardless of the enable/disable state. Does it make sense to anyone else that the rc functions should be able to shutdown a process when it has been disabled in rc.conf? Sean From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 16:51:44 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5276116A41B for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:51:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@miralink.com) Received: from plato.miralink.com (mail.miralink.com [70.103.185.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA3B13C442 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:51:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@miralink.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plato.miralink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4EA61A431 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plato.miralink.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (plato.miralink.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01587-10 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.40] (iago.office.miralink.com [10.0.0.40]) by plato.miralink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4D15619CFB for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46D8470B.9030304@miralink.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:51:23 -0700 From: Sean Bruno User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> <46D84697.800@fsck.ch> In-Reply-To: <46D84697.800@fsck.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Fri Aug 31 09:51:24 2007 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9997 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-DSPAM-Signature: 46d8470c29031542430122 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.499 tagged_above=-10 required=6.6 autolearn=ham tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.8, BAYES_00=-2.599, DSPAM_HAM=-0.1] X-Spam-Score: -4.499 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:51:44 -0000 Tobias Roth wrote: > Sean Bruno wrote: > >> I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of >> /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a couple >> of other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. >> >> I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop routines >> if a utility is disabled, but apparently the check for enabled/disabled >> occurs much too early in the rc handling functions for the stop to fire >> off. >> I could investigate further, as I am sure that it's a fairly easy fix to >> allow the stop functions to be invoked regardless of the enable/disable >> state. >> Does it make sense to anyone else that the rc functions should be able >> to shutdown a process when it has been disabled in rc.conf? >> > > /etc/rc.d/ntpd forcestop > Indeed one could invoke that. My question is more about what 'stop' should or should not do. Specifically, should it 'stop' when a process has been disabled? Sean From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 17:10:17 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD61216A417 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:10:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail2.fluidhosting.com (mx22.fluidhosting.com [204.14.89.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7DA6C13C48A for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:10:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 24133 invoked by uid 399); 31 Aug 2007 17:09:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO slave.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTP; 31 Aug 2007 17:09:54 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Sean Bruno In-Reply-To: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> Message-ID: References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 0xD5B2F0FB Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:10:17 -0000 On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Sean Bruno wrote: > I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of > /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a couple of > other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. FYI, there is a list for discussing rc.d issues, freebsd-rc@. The current behavior is by design, and I don't think that changing it is a good idea this late in the game. Assuming that lack of an affirmative _enable variable is a constant, the only way that a service can be started is with either onestart or forcestart. The symmetry here would be to stop it the same way. > I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop routines if a > utility is disabled, It can invoke them, in the same way that the start routines can be invoked if a service is not enabled, by prepending one or force to stop. Looking at this from the other direction, what would be the benefit to having plain stop act in the absence of an _enable variable for that service? Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 17:38:01 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5482316A419 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:38:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.lists@fsck.ch) Received: from secure.socket.ch (secure.socket.ch [212.103.70.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04FFE13C4D5 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:38:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.lists@fsck.ch) Received: from 80-219-162-83.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.219.162.83] helo=factory.fsck.ch) by secure.socket.ch with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IR9gV-000Dxe-Og; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:49:29 +0200 Message-ID: <46D84697.800@fsck.ch> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:49:27 +0200 From: Tobias Roth User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070804) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Bruno References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> In-Reply-To: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "secure.socket.ch", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see The administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Sean Bruno wrote: > I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of > /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a couple > of other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. > > I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop routines > if a utility is disabled, but apparently the check for enabled/disabled > occurs much too early in the rc handling functions for the stop to fire > off. > I could investigate further, as I am sure that it's a fairly easy fix to > allow the stop functions to be invoked regardless of the enable/disable > state. > Does it make sense to anyone else that the rc functions should be able > to shutdown a process when it has been disabled in rc.conf? [...] Content analysis details: (0.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.4 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 1.6 TVD_RCVD_IP TVD_RCVD_IP X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 80.219.162.83 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: freebsd.lists@fsck.ch X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on secure.socket.ch); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:38:01 -0000 Sean Bruno wrote: > I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of > /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a couple > of other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. > > I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop routines > if a utility is disabled, but apparently the check for enabled/disabled > occurs much too early in the rc handling functions for the stop to fire > off. > I could investigate further, as I am sure that it's a fairly easy fix to > allow the stop functions to be invoked regardless of the enable/disable > state. > Does it make sense to anyone else that the rc functions should be able > to shutdown a process when it has been disabled in rc.conf? /etc/rc.d/ntpd forcestop From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 17:38:03 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B5F16A417 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:38:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.lists@fsck.ch) Received: from secure.socket.ch (secure.socket.ch [212.103.70.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D77E13C4DA for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:38:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.lists@fsck.ch) Received: from 80-219-162-83.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.219.162.83] helo=factory.fsck.ch) by secure.socket.ch with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IR9pn-000DyY-CP; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:59:05 +0200 Message-ID: <46D848D6.3030006@fsck.ch> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:59:02 +0200 From: Tobias Roth User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070804) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Bruno References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> <46D84697.800@fsck.ch> <46D8470B.9030304@miralink.com> In-Reply-To: <46D8470B.9030304@miralink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "secure.socket.ch", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see The administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Sean Bruno wrote: > Tobias Roth wrote: >> Sean Bruno wrote: >> >>> I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of >>> /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a couple >>> of other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. >>> >>> I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop routines >>> if a utility is disabled, but apparently the check for enabled/disabled >>> occurs much too early in the rc handling functions for the stop to fire >>> off. >>> I could investigate further, as I am sure that it's a fairly easy fix to >>> allow the stop functions to be invoked regardless of the enable/disable >>> state. Does it make sense to anyone else that the rc functions should >>> be able >>> to shutdown a process when it has been disabled in rc.conf? >>> >> >> /etc/rc.d/ntpd forcestop >> > Indeed one could invoke that. My question is more about what 'stop' > should or should not do. > > Specifically, should it 'stop' when a process has been disabled? [...] Content analysis details: (0.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.4 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 1.6 TVD_RCVD_IP TVD_RCVD_IP X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 80.219.162.83 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: freebsd.lists@fsck.ch X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on secure.socket.ch); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:38:03 -0000 Sean Bruno wrote: > Tobias Roth wrote: >> Sean Bruno wrote: >> >>> I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of >>> /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a couple >>> of other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. >>> >>> I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop routines >>> if a utility is disabled, but apparently the check for enabled/disabled >>> occurs much too early in the rc handling functions for the stop to fire >>> off. >>> I could investigate further, as I am sure that it's a fairly easy fix to >>> allow the stop functions to be invoked regardless of the enable/disable >>> state. Does it make sense to anyone else that the rc functions should >>> be able >>> to shutdown a process when it has been disabled in rc.conf? >>> >> >> /etc/rc.d/ntpd forcestop >> > Indeed one could invoke that. My question is more about what 'stop' > should or should not do. > > Specifically, should it 'stop' when a process has been disabled? If 'stop' is the inverse of 'start', then no, as 'start' doesn't start a service if it is disabled. I agree that the naming could be improved to make it clear that 'start' and 'stop' both do their thing in respect of the setting in rc.conf, but I don't have an idea about how exactly to name them. Furthermore, using 'force' to do something without consideration of any ill effects and overriding any configuration is widely accepted. Because of this and in order to respect POLA, I'd just leave everything as it is. Cheers, Tobias From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 17:39:27 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474E216A419 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@miralink.com) Received: from plato.miralink.com (mail.miralink.com [70.103.185.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D5313C478 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:39:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@miralink.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plato.miralink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F1D961A431 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plato.miralink.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (plato.miralink.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03290-07 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.40] (iago.office.miralink.com [10.0.0.40]) by plato.miralink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC26619CFB for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46D84D70.50406@miralink.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:18:40 -0700 From: Sean Bruno User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Fri Aug 31 10:18:41 2007 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9997 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-DSPAM-Signature: 46d84d71199141763113579 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.499 tagged_above=-10 required=6.6 autolearn=ham tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.8, BAYES_00=-2.599, DSPAM_HAM=-0.1] X-Spam-Score: -4.499 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:39:27 -0000 Doug Barton wrote: > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Sean Bruno wrote: > >> I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of >> /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a >> couple of other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. > > FYI, there is a list for discussing rc.d issues, freebsd-rc@. The > current behavior is by design, and I don't think that changing it is a > good idea this late in the game. > Ah, as usual, I picked the wrong list. I'll take design issues there. > Assuming that lack of an affirmative _enable variable is a constant, > the only way that a service can be started is with either onestart or > forcestart. The symmetry here would be to stop it the same way. > This may be symmetrical, but I question whether or not the 'correct' behavior is symmetrical. I don't see the benefit to the end user in this implementation, e.g. trying to disable a running service. If a new-ish admin edits the rc.conf prior to shutting down the service, there could be some consternation. However, my entire idea of how to shut down a process in FreeBSD may be flawed, and I may be the one who is in need of a 'design change'. :) Sean From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 19:15:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5CF16A418 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:15:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erikt@midgard.homeip.net) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7736513C4A6 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:15:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erikt@midgard.homeip.net) Received: from c83-253-31-60.bredband.comhem.se ([83.253.31.60]:59197 helo=falcon.midgard.homeip.net) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1IRBxG-0004qS-6u for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:14:54 +0200 Received: (qmail 7515 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2007 21:14:29 +0200 Received: from owl.midgard.homeip.net (10.1.5.7) by falcon.midgard.homeip.net with ESMTP; 31 Aug 2007 21:14:29 +0200 Received: (qmail 63900 invoked by uid 1001); 31 Aug 2007 21:14:29 +0200 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:14:29 +0200 From: Erik Trulsson To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20070831191429.GA63829@owl.midgard.homeip.net> Mail-Followup-To: Doug Barton , Sean Bruno , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) X-Originating-IP: 83.253.31.60 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1IRBxG-0004qS-6u. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1IRBxG-0004qS-6u 3d0bbc62b002115e08807f6586d23a70 Cc: Sean Bruno , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:15:13 -0000 On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 10:09:52AM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Sean Bruno wrote: > >> I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable="NO", an invocation of >> /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a couple of >> other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same behavior. > > FYI, there is a list for discussing rc.d issues, freebsd-rc@. The current > behavior is by design, and I don't think that changing it is a good idea > this late in the game. > > Assuming that lack of an affirmative _enable variable is a constant, the > only way that a service can be started is with either onestart or > forcestart. The symmetry here would be to stop it the same way. > >> I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop routines if >> a utility is disabled, > > It can invoke them, in the same way that the start routines can be invoked > if a service is not enabled, by prepending one or force to stop. > > Looking at this from the other direction, what would be the benefit to > having plain stop act in the absence of an _enable variable for that > service? The times I have noticed that stop does not work without an _enable variable has been when I wished to stop running some service. First I edited rc.conf to remove the _enable line (to make sure the service did not start the next time I restarted the computer) and then I tried to stop the service using the normal 'stop' invocation. This of course did not work which was very annoying. (The above is IMO the proper order to do this - if it worked.) There has been several times when I have been annoyed by the fact that stop needs the _enable variable to be set. There has never been any occasion when I have been happy about this fact. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 31 21:16:54 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8F216A418 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:16:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@maxlor.com) Received: from popeye1.ggamaur.net (popeye1.ggamaur.net [213.160.40.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DA913C46B for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:16:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@maxlor.com) Received: from maxlor.mine.nu (c-82-192-240-247.customer.ggaweb.ch [82.192.240.247]) by popeye1.ggamaur.net (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) with ESMTP id l7VKjiQv038434; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:45:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mail@maxlor.com) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by maxlor.mine.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200052E26F; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:45:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at atlantis.intranet Received: from maxlor.mine.nu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlantis.intranet [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AcDaMbjSrc56; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:45:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mini.intranet (mini.intranet [10.0.0.17]) by maxlor.mine.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DBB2E26E; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:45:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Benjamin Lutz To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:45:35 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> <46D84697.800@fsck.ch> <46D8470B.9030304@miralink.com> In-Reply-To: <46D8470B.9030304@miralink.com> X-Face: $Ov27?7*N,h60fIEfNJdb!m,@#4T/d; 1hw|W0zvsHM(a$Yn6BYQ0^SEEXvi8>D`|V*F"=?utf-8?q?=5F+=0A=09R2?=@Aq>+mNb4`,'[[%z9v0Fa~]AD1}xQO3|>b.z&}l#R-_(P`?@Mz"kS; XC>Eti,i3>%@=?utf-8?q?g=3F=0A=094f?=,\c7|Ghwb&ky$b2PJ^\0b83NkLsFKv|smL/cI4UD%Tu8alAD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1848841.mkgRyaegMq"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200708312245.38607.mail@maxlor.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.62 on 213.160.40.60 Cc: Sean Bruno Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:16:54 -0000 --nextPart1848841.mkgRyaegMq Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Friday 31 August 2007 18:51:23 Sean Bruno wrote: > Tobias Roth wrote: > > Sean Bruno wrote: > >> I noticed that if rc.conf has ntpd_enable=3D"NO", an invocation of > >> /etc/rc.d/ntpd stop won't actually shut down ntpd. I checked a > >> couple of other processes(like net-snmp) and noted the same > >> behavior. > >> > >> I would have expected that rc would be able to invoke the stop > >> routines if a utility is disabled, but apparently the check for > >> enabled/disabled occurs much too early in the rc handling > >> functions for the stop to fire off. > >> I could investigate further, as I am sure that it's a fairly easy > >> fix to allow the stop functions to be invoked regardless of the > >> enable/disable state. > >> Does it make sense to anyone else that the rc functions should be > >> able to shutdown a process when it has been disabled in rc.conf? > > > > /etc/rc.d/ntpd forcestop > > Indeed one could invoke that. My question is more about what 'stop' > should or should not do. > > Specifically, should it 'stop' when a process has been disabled? Consider this: all init scripts are called with stop on shutdown. If=20 stop always does something, then you'll have many init scripts trying=20 to stop processes that aren't actually running. While this shouldn't hurt the system too much, other than slightly=20 slowing down a shutdown, it doesn't feel like clean design to me. Nor=20 would adding an rc.d-internal-stop. forcestop is a good solution for this issue imo. Cheers Benjamin --nextPart1848841.mkgRyaegMq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBG2H3vzZEjpyKHuQwRAkxrAKCj+ioyyFR/7V4MIgAGBiEjv4VcDgCeL0zT wT2kraQdwID4jD76DXaWeHQ= =LAEx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1848841.mkgRyaegMq-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 05:44:17 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD2A616A421 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 05:44:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail2.fluidhosting.com (mx22.fluidhosting.com [204.14.89.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 340D113C480 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 05:44:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 10283 invoked by uid 399); 1 Sep 2007 05:43:59 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO slave.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTP; 1 Sep 2007 05:43:59 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:43:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Erik Trulsson In-Reply-To: <20070831191429.GA63829@owl.midgard.homeip.net> Message-ID: References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> <20070831191429.GA63829@owl.midgard.homeip.net> X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 0xD5B2F0FB Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Sean Bruno , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:44:17 -0000 On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Erik Trulsson wrote: > The times I have noticed that stop does not work without an _enable variable > has been when I wished to stop running some service. First I edited rc.conf > to remove the _enable line (to make sure the service did not start the next > time I restarted the computer) and then I tried to stop the service using > the normal 'stop' invocation. This of course did not work which was very > annoying. (The above is IMO the proper order to do this - if it worked.) With all due respect, I think that if you've done the same wrong thing the same wrong way multiple times, and haven't learned not to keep doing it wrong, changing the code to meet your expectations is the least of our worries. That said, you of course have the code to modify in any way you see fit. I do not believe however that what you're suggesting is in the interests of the majority of FreeBSD users. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 05:49:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB5816A418 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 05:49:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail2.fluidhosting.com (mx22.fluidhosting.com [204.14.89.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 80A7713C474 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 05:49:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 14248 invoked by uid 399); 1 Sep 2007 05:49:00 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO slave.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTP; 1 Sep 2007 05:49:00 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:48:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Sean Bruno In-Reply-To: <46D84D70.50406@miralink.com> Message-ID: References: <46D84609.3080409@miralink.com> <46D84D70.50406@miralink.com> X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 0xD5B2F0FB Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc functions don't allow processes to shutdown X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:49:00 -0000 On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Sean Bruno wrote: > Doug Barton wrote: >> Assuming that lack of an affirmative _enable variable is a constant, the >> only way that a service can be started is with either onestart or >> forcestart. The symmetry here would be to stop it the same way. >> > This may be symmetrical, but I question whether or not the 'correct' behavior > is symmetrical. > > I don't see the benefit to the end user in this implementation, e.g. trying > to disable a running service. If a new-ish admin edits the rc.conf prior to > shutting down the service, there could be some consternation. I would chalk this up to one of the many things that an inexperienced admin needs to learn about system administration. I am heavily in favor of reasonable changes to improve usability, however I think you're tilting at a windmill here. Here you have articulated one edge case where the "expected" behavior is something other than what happens now, but I completely fail to see how any benefit that might accrue from changing the code to "fix" this edge case overcomes the cost of the POLA violation we'd commit by changing the code at this late stage in the life of rc.d. > However, my entire idea of how to shut down a process in FreeBSD may be > flawed, and I may be the one who is in need of a 'design change'. :) I don't think it's flawed, but I think you're preoccupied with something that is not that big of a problem that already has a convenient solution. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 08:10:15 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44BC816A468 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:10:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.97]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616D413C458 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:10:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l817YfX2016206 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:34:41 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id l817Yfnx016201 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:34:41 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from yar) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:34:40 +0400 From: Yar Tikhiy To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20070901073440.GL85633@comp.chem.msu.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: Subject: Useful tools missing from /rescue X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:10:15 -0000 Hi all, I've had to use /rescue recently and felt lack of a few basic tools in it, namely pgrep(1), head(1), tail(1), tee(1), and a text filter, e.g., sed(1). Well, in fact most functionality of pgrep(1), head(1), tail(1), and even tee(1) can be emulated if one has sed(1), but the tools are so tiny and convenient that it's a pity not to have them all handy during hard times. In addition, there are chflags and chmod in /rescue, but there's no chown in it, so the toolset is a bit incomplete. Would anyone mind if I add those tools to /rescue? The size growth will be rather small: -r-xr-xr-x 121 root wheel 3715096 1 ΣΕΞ 10:22 /mnt2/rescue.old/rescue -r-xr-xr-x 129 root wheel 3761828 1 ΣΕΞ 11:22 /mnt2/rescue/rescue The patch is attached. Thanks! -- Yar --- //depot/vendor/freebsd/src/rescue/rescue/Makefile 2007/07/14 22:47:42 +++ //depot/user/yar/hack/rescue/rescue/Makefile 2007/09/01 07:28:25 @@ -85,6 +85,10 @@ CRUNCH_ALIAS_rm= unlink CRUNCH_ALIAS_ed= red +CRUNCH_PROGS_bin+= pkill +CRUNCH_SRCDIR_pkill= ${.CURDIR}/../../usr.bin/pkill +CRUNCH_ALIAS_pkill= pgrep + .if ${MK_RCMDS} != "no" CRUNCH_PROGS_bin+= rcp .endif @@ -190,6 +194,8 @@ # CRUNCH_SRCDIRS+= usr.bin +CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.bin= head sed tail tee + CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.bin+= gzip CRUNCH_ALIAS_gzip= gunzip gzcat zcat @@ -211,7 +217,10 @@ # CRUNCH_SRCDIRS+= usr.sbin -CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.sbin+= chroot +CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.sbin= chroot + +CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.sbin+= chown +CRUNCH_ALIAS_chown= chgrp ################################################################## # The following is pretty nearly a generic crunchgen-handling makefile From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 13:30:31 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0CB16A418 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:30:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from thin.berklix.org (thin.berklix.org [194.246.123.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6775913C457 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:30:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A6A1A.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.106.26]) (authenticated bits=128) by thin.berklix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l81Co1rb048796; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:50:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l81CeTRJ007779; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:44:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost.js.berklix.net [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l81CeTKd056036; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:40:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200709011240.l81CeTKd056036@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Yar Tikhiy From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen. User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:34:40 +0400." <20070901073440.GL85633@comp.chem.msu.su> Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:40:29 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Useful tools missing from /rescue X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:30:32 -0000 Reference: > From: Yar Tikhiy > Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:34:40 +0400 > Message-id: <20070901073440.GL85633@comp.chem.msu.su> Yar Tikhiy wrote: > Hi all, > > I've had to use /rescue recently and felt lack of a few basic tools > in it, namely pgrep(1), head(1), tail(1), tee(1), and a text filter, > e.g., sed(1). Well, in fact most functionality of pgrep(1), head(1), > tail(1), and even tee(1) can be emulated if one has sed(1), but the > tools are so tiny and convenient that it's a pity not to have them > all handy during hard times. > > In addition, there are chflags and chmod in /rescue, but there's > no chown in it, so the toolset is a bit incomplete. > > Would anyone mind if I add those tools to /rescue? The size growth > will be rather small: > > -r-xr-xr-x 121 root wheel 3715096 1 ΣΕΞ 10:22 /mnt2/rescue.old/rescue > -r-xr-xr-x 129 root wheel 3761828 1 ΣΕΞ 11:22 /mnt2/rescue/rescue Don't do it without approval of re@ (who might be too busy just now anyway) It might blow the limit on the tight packed rescue floppy. (& though desk workstations have CDs, lost of small boxes still just have floppies for rescue) Best try to build a rescue floppy yourself before adding bloat. BTW I've never used pgrep thus superfluous to rescue. Others also not really needed, merely nice. True rescue is just to fix FS at which point you can mount other FS or CDROM or NFS etc for more tools. Before anyone else might discuss which tools might be nice, I'd suggest build yourself a FIXIT floppy, & see what space is left, & what you'd have to chuck out to make space for what you want to add. > The patch is attached. > > Thanks! > > -- > Yar > > --- //depot/vendor/freebsd/src/rescue/rescue/Makefile 2007/07/14 22:47:42 > +++ //depot/user/yar/hack/rescue/rescue/Makefile 2007/09/01 07:28:25 > @@ -85,6 +85,10 @@ > CRUNCH_ALIAS_rm= unlink > CRUNCH_ALIAS_ed= red > > +CRUNCH_PROGS_bin+= pkill > +CRUNCH_SRCDIR_pkill= ${.CURDIR}/../../usr.bin/pkill > +CRUNCH_ALIAS_pkill= pgrep > + > .if ${MK_RCMDS} != "no" > CRUNCH_PROGS_bin+= rcp > .endif > @@ -190,6 +194,8 @@ > # > CRUNCH_SRCDIRS+= usr.bin > > +CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.bin= head sed tail tee > + > CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.bin+= gzip > CRUNCH_ALIAS_gzip= gunzip gzcat zcat > > @@ -211,7 +217,10 @@ > # > CRUNCH_SRCDIRS+= usr.sbin > > -CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.sbin+= chroot > +CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.sbin= chroot > + > +CRUNCH_PROGS_usr.sbin+= chown > +CRUNCH_ALIAS_chown= chgrp > > ################################################################## > # The following is pretty nearly a generic crunchgen-handling makefile > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch=mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 16:07:07 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C1B16A417 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:07:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from digital_sector@yahoo.com) Received: from web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.133]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B68513C442 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:07:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from digital_sector@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 11006 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2007 15:39:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=jN11Xx/Rb5oE5FH9t51CrZQ1/LjKdvNm1pUSM4ke/nWWBsyJYiP3oP5ZJ+7x/atkxvdraUDUWOe2fIIBlzwRsmJcwi/qbPbkDtsfipTZx8klUBC07HCL9Rcz42okN1CFvWCddJh8GZc4F3WvDD2nj1CpFnd1opnfX96W9z12EO8=; X-YMail-OSG: Htw0Gw8VM1mPA8oMr5roTOISAwPVhSkla1NPA1_qkm4URTUb22ERlsuLmgeoh3K7CNFABhG9rNjnHfb0S6x9A8EMpYbixE6CxrDD8X3fquaA2eLlBNHIGHp1e1VlVQ-- Received: from [83.229.101.68] by web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:39:58 PDT Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:39:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthrax De Oracle To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <997660.10890.qm@web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:26:12 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Verizon Wireless Card v620 (Novatel Wireless) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:07:07 -0000 ******************** Success ... on device from ugen1 to ucom0 ucom0: Novatel Wireless Inc. Novatel Wireless Merlin CDMA, rev 1.10/0.00, addr 2 ..I have successfully gotten my device to detect as ucom.. (ucom0: Novatel Wireless Inc. Novatel Wireless Merlin CDMA, rev 1.10/0.00, addr 2) and not ugen.. HOWEVER, my problem here is connecting... each time i type ppp ,... it says 'ucom0: ubsa_request STALLED. and the stalled messages keep coming.. when i type ping google.com to see if i'm online it shows me host look up failure, thus meaning im not connected. Please what can i do to solve this problem, it's eating me up.. i really need this.. I have even recompiled my kernel (from 6.2-RELEASE to 6.2-STABLE) ... and its still not working .. what can i do to solve this .. please help. --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 18:22:22 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6193416A41A for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:22:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Received: from ns1.jnielsen.net (ns1.jnielsen.net [69.55.238.237]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495AB13C469 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:22:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Received: from localhost (jn@ns1 [69.55.238.237]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.jnielsen.net (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l81Hq9jm089565; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:52:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) From: John Nielsen To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:52:00 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <997660.10890.qm@web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <997660.10890.qm@web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Face: #X5#Y*q>F:]zT!DegL3z5Xo'^MN[$8k\[4^3rN~wm=s=Uw(sW}R?3b^*f1Wu*.<=?utf-8?q?of=5F4NrS=0A=09P*M/9CpxDo!D6?=)IY1w<9B1jB; tBQf[RU-R<,I)e"$q7N7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200709011352.01340.lists@jnielsen.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on ns1.jnielsen.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Anthrax De Oracle Subject: Re: Verizon Wireless Card v620 (Novatel Wireless) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:22:22 -0000 On Saturday 01 September 2007, Anthrax De Oracle wrote: > ******************** > Success ... on device from ugen1 to ucom0 > ucom0: Novatel Wireless Inc. Novatel Wireless Merlin CDMA, rev > 1.10/0.00, addr 2 > > ..I have successfully gotten my device to detect as ucom.. (ucom0: > Novatel Wireless Inc. Novatel Wireless Merlin CDMA, rev 1.10/0.00, addr > 2) and not ugen.. HOWEVER, my problem here is connecting... each time i > type ppp ,... it says 'ucom0: ubsa_request STALLED. and the stalled > messages keep coming.. when i type ping google.com to see if i'm online > it shows me host look up failure, thus meaning im not connected. Please > what can i do to solve this problem, it's eating me up.. i really need > this.. I have even recompiled my kernel (from 6.2-RELEASE to 6.2-STABLE) > ... and its still not working .. what can i do to solve this .. please > help. See my thread about this from a few months ago on the freebsd-mobile mailing list. I saw strings of STALLED messages as well but it always worked fine for me. You might want to compare my patches to yours. JN From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 18:24:29 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5213C16A418 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:24:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from klausps@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B4113C442 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:24:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from klausps@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k4so881945nfd for ; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:24:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=Fn1RIxbU4tI6uSz2w+6v7xb9p6tqlmssUJJyL9J0nYUBGYwZrOVi5XOe2dyR55dv+bc42ga4629cCbhsY1iciK3LKAlIFNHGKgH6OeiJv0cuTwEnVZrWIUgY8tvEj9g9nOrwWam3qlleDOjTODcGCVy++TaAeZD1aQdLDeQgTlk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=qpdpJeoZLjNW5aAm86WAF24I7HuXVCQsvGnGjDXNZi+w/pc2BqANiD0fIxIdXmGnAfnbcXXKmwZcth/+yEGKP8tRTQlIj4y2RMv5wAmgSjmEw2ETYtEbXMW7+T6jQKEa3oG8ySZoT41VV25pMOVpt/loCikA2u9X8ZP5EdZXd00= Received: by 10.78.150.7 with SMTP id x7mr2254512hud.1188667662302; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.143.14 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 10:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <45910cf20709011027o546363e2h4f5646b15e0f84a2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:27:42 -0300 From: "Klaus Schneider" To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Exclusive binary files X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:24:29 -0000 Hi. Well, anybody know a way to make the FreeBSD run just binaries that I have compiled? For example: A hacker get a access to a shell into my server, and then it put a exploit code, but on the machine don't have a compiler, then he tries to put the compiled exploit... supose that I can't mount the users partition in "noexec" mode... Anybode knows a solution for these? -- /* * Klaus Schneider */ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 22:02:28 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD03B16A417 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 22:02:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41DFD13C4A6 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 22:02:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from kobe.laptop (dialup206.ach.sch.gr [81.186.70.206]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-8) with ESMTP id l81M207v020001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 2 Sep 2007 01:02:09 +0300 Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l81M1pDD006419; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 01:01:51 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l81M1kkW006418; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 01:01:46 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 01:01:46 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Pietro Cerutti Message-ID: <20070901220145.GA6265@kobe.laptop> References: <46D7186D.8030508@gahr.ch> <200708302124.48899.max@love2party.net> <46D71A16.6020005@gahr.ch> <20070830154129.46951d54@bhuda.mired.org> <46D71F41.6010609@gahr.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46D71F41.6010609@gahr.ch> X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-3.867, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.53, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr X-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: what happened to make world? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:02:28 -0000 On 2007-08-30 21:49, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > Even worse.. it doesn't tell you how to do what you tell him to > do.. it doubts that maybe that's not what you really want to do! Oh but it does. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications before doing this. So, if you know what you are doing and you really _want_ the old behavior, set HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD and off you go: # env HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD=yes \ make world It's not so hard or such a big PITA, right? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 22:26:15 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F8916A417 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 22:26:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-20-82.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.20.82]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3129613C45D for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 22:26:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l81M8qHZ022138; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 08:08:52 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l81M8pwb022137; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 08:08:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 08:08:51 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Klaus Schneider Message-ID: <20070901220851.GA1181@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <45910cf20709011027o546363e2h4f5646b15e0f84a2@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PuGuTyElPB9bOcsM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <45910cf20709011027o546363e2h4f5646b15e0f84a2@mail.gmail.com> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Exclusive binary files X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:26:15 -0000 --PuGuTyElPB9bOcsM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2007-Sep-01 14:27:42 -0300, Klaus Schneider wrote: >Well, anybody know a way to make the FreeBSD run just binaries that I have >compiled? The simplest way would be to change the ELF OSABI that the kernel loader recognises as FreeBSD (patch ELFOSABI_FREEBSD in sys/sys/elf_common.h and rebuild). You would need to use brandelf to patch executables built on other FreeBSD systems. There's a set of patches implementing mac_chkexec floating around see (eg) http://lists.virus.org/freebsd-security-0503/msg00042.html This might do what you want. --=20 Peter Jeremy --PuGuTyElPB9bOcsM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFG2eLz/opHv/APuIcRAjqhAJ9jzMHkmLQy806I107vYs8ynOaIpgCfb34O KZYr3proOT/ahea9hZK4JUc= =5VK/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PuGuTyElPB9bOcsM-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 22:58:14 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06EC16A421 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 22:58:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (vpn.mired.org [66.92.153.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D3DF13C47E for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 22:58:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: (qmail 2274 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Sep 2007 22:30:22 -0000 Received: from bhuda.mired.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bhuda.mired.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:30:21 -0400 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:30:20 -0400 To: "Klaus Schneider" Message-ID: <20070901183020.6a098955@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <45910cf20709011027o546363e2h4f5646b15e0f84a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <45910cf20709011027o546363e2h4f5646b15e0f84a2@mail.gmail.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.9.1 (GTK+ 2.10.12; amd64-portbld-freebsd6.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.11 (Ladyburn) From: Mike Meyer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Exclusive binary files X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:58:14 -0000 On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:27:42 -0300 "Klaus Schneider" wrote: > Well, anybody know a way to make the FreeBSD run just binaries that I have > compiled? In general, it's impossible. There's no way the system can know that you compiled a binary. There are a number of things you could do with a custom kernel and toolchain to indicate that you compiled the binary (like Peter's changing of ELF OSABI), but that's just security through obscurity. If someone figures out those changes and replicates them, you lose. The extreme version of this involves designing a new processor, getting a copy fabbed, porting FreeBSD to it, and then using that. Somewhat more practical are crypto technics, say having the kernel check that you've digitally signed the binaries. Those aren't unbreakable, just expensive to break. > For example: > A hacker get a access to a shell into my server, and then it put a exploit > code, but on the machine don't have a compiler, then he tries to put the > compiled exploit... supose that I can't mount the users partition > in "noexec" mode... > Anybode knows a solution for these? You haven't described why you can't make the users partition noexec (which is really strange since you don't want users to be able to install executables), so no, I can't provide a solution for that. There are lots of other possibilities that might turn up with a different phrasing of the problem. For instance, restricting the kernel to a fixed list of executables should be doable. But until you tell us what problem you're really trying to solve, there's no way to know which would be acceptable and which wouldn't. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.