From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 01:56:56 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2D5106566C for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:56:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gedankezauberer@comcast.net) Received: from QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339728FC1D for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:56:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from OMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.43]) by QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GRrL1d0040vp7WLA2RwwL6; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:56:56 +0000 Received: from debianbox.local ([76.112.93.25]) by OMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GRwv1d0030Yq9Sc8RRww5D; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:56:56 +0000 From: Allen To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:53:34 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200912122053.35126.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:56:56 -0000 On Saturday 12 December 2009 02:57:27 pm Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > Most people who helped invent Unix / Linux / BSD / TCP/IP, smoked > > something. Berkeley is only known for two products ;) > > Having been born in San Francisco and growing up in Berkeley I must agree. Thanks :) It's not like there is something wrong with it. Bitching about drugs on the internet is like emailing hate group crap; Every email eventually hits a sendmail server, which was written by a gay man, and the Internet was written by guys who do things they don't agree with. I can't think of even one hacker who doesn't do something. Doesn't matter if it's pot or Caffeine, they're all drugs. -- http://www.myspace.com/farmacyofhorror Digital Horror Punk - Music I make! All done with LMMS All done with Linux and FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 05:43:03 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D57E1065676 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 05:43:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from poseidon.ceid.upatras.gr (poseidon.ceid.upatras.gr [150.140.141.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356B28FC08 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 05:43:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.ceid.upatras.gr (unknown [10.1.0.143]) by poseidon.ceid.upatras.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD50BEB4735; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:11:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (europa.ceid.upatras.gr [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ceid.upatras.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5DB45336; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:11:29 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ceid.upatras.gr Received: from mail.ceid.upatras.gr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (europa.ceid.upatras.gr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z7nVOBPe3R05; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:11:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from kobe.laptop (ppp-94-64-203-39.home.otenet.gr [94.64.203.39]) by mail.ceid.upatras.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4375E452FB; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:11:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBD5BSdq042882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:11:28 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id nBD5BRCV042879; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:11:27 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Allen References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:11:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> (Allen's message of "Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:34:56 -0500") Message-ID: <87zl5n5ugx.fsf@kobe.laptop> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.90 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-chat Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 05:43:03 -0000 On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:34:56 -0500, Allen wrote: > Most people who helped invent Unix / Linux / BSD / TCP/IP, smoked > something. Berkeley is only known for two products ;) Only one of which has really come out of Berkeley. Guesses at which one of the two it was are still a cause of lots of fun at BSD conferences. Preferably over a table with a variety of beverages. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 11:49:24 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D6F106566C for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:49:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB2D8FC13 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:49:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E5B6D41B; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:49:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 944BF844E9; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:49:22 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:49:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> (Aryeh M. Friedman's message of "Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:42:55 -0500") Message-ID: <864onvksal.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:49:24 -0000 "Aryeh M. Friedman" writes: > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The fall of the Soviet Union proves you wrong. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 11:51:35 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4933106566C for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:51:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866EB8FC0A for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:51:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so508603qwb.7 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:51:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zATanl4uVLiBn3T4Rq9Ihq+Jz1E5BUmeIZ8feBMp4V8=; b=XVNFquX189Lb3LUElg0tSRGr82jM3KwYa/4yj/owcMhXet2cn1d1vMt3kHVHWvh/wY Emjuay9VfQiqilQP8gMbs+LGsAOntG/TYGtjg14Gf9E44B3Sp7ZacOwsMP4eepTDwBtz NumF9/+ZYFsrP3OeeURtv1bxMzfWCft47tYbE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=c2xXCQiaO5eiQ1ZO3ZYfvISRbsanyc+ycCH0TU7nOJq3/KvJ2+T+aStrplCXc96WzI LtlfmnJfanNNUC4Lt3V4LCm+fLLflDeDCjVepFt2D/xsOcDvGk2KoDVu6GX88ZQzsdj0 CB2ZrlCBe5Z14LB7N7Jd0Fkv2nFfEo/2zpF8Q= Received: by 10.224.95.222 with SMTP id e30mr2157527qan.223.1260705094621; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:51:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from aryeh-desktop.istudentunion.com (ool-44c0cd7a.dyn.optonline.net [68.192.205.122]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 21sm3215217qyk.12.2009.12.13.03.51.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:51:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B24D544.7050100@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:51:32 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20091103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?RGFnLUVybGluZyBTbcO4cmdyYXY=?= References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <864onvksal.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: <864onvksal.fsf@ds4.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:51:35 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > "Aryeh M. Friedman" writes: > >> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. >> > > The fall of the Soviet Union proves you wrong. > That it does ;-) > DES > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 14:46:00 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD49A1065672 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:46:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk) Received: from relay.ptn-ipout01.plus.net (relay.ptn-ipout01.plus.net [212.159.7.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675AF8FC12 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:46:00 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAKOGJEtUXeby/2dsb2JhbADRSYQrBA Received: from relay01.plus.net ([84.93.230.242]) by relay.ptn-ipout01.plus.net with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2009 14:16:55 +0000 Received: from [81.174.213.199] (helo=81-174-213-199.pth-as6.dial.plus.net) by relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1NJpFm-0003rQ-Or for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:16:55 +0000 From: Frank Mitchell To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:16:56 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200912131416.56501.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> X-Plusnet-Relay: fc8c3208cd079250c3ee7bc456e725bb Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:46:00 -0000 I don't use Windows, but that's because I find Unix so much more interesting. I concluded long ago that people who moan about Microsoft are in fact Secret Windows Users. Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 20:40:14 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CAA8106566B for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:40:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.157]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3C88FC0C for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:40:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 19so1038490fgg.13 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:40:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=cMeo6G0Mb4M3bEW1XmXfQq+gxlpc4b0FifBh3C7dhM8=; b=kJ0JBZsGtwAFAM/uqqjoqunG+Gwf9akoVTwo+f/c+orV6koUQgizcCCvqU+fRc7V3k yfj8cvkTUypyPwBOpJcgWq2DKbK/StLP62tKes61GQylFMzqhhaBrXRvmoWab+hvwaZW bJmiVRGjlKKuitYr+qISHb8TIPCEDZp/EhNzk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=n/BhdJPMONeuX/VCHmpkFX6Tcbjm9kMliGNGk8x4suehMtZGy3g7bq0FjXa59/N+Ba twAadeX3quO3+Ihb7cx/pBhtqDoOFp30ire9oqbnCe4+2KSIvrziU6gVwgdHYt4Q/P0h Gd5pc1gAlejeb1oGdb1C1j3BCd8WzpVLUrvas= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.184.5 with SMTP id l5mr1537973mup.34.1260736812986; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:40:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200912131416.56501.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> <200912131416.56501.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:40:12 +0000 Message-ID: From: Jayton Garnett To: Frank Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:40:14 -0000 I used to be naive too, thinking Unix was better in all respects. Then got a job working in a predominately Windows environment, and most of the problems I encounter are third party software issues - hardly the fault of Microsoft eh? Yes Unix is far more interesting as you can start with a CLI and build on that to make what you want, however that is also it's downfall. The average PC user just about knows how to turn it on, write a document, browse the web and print. Explaining to a computer user non-technical how/why/when to install software using the ports and make or even pkg_add -r and for them to grasp this concept is where Windows (OS/X also) is by far the 'better' OS for these people, which is more than 90% of the population. Cheers, Jay ;) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 20:44:41 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFBE1065692 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:44:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu (iron1.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5598FC17 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:44:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApsEAKPgJEuC1B9B/2dsb2JhbACECr57ggsBCQWDeohIgkiBEVIEhBOBUIRl Received: from edg01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.65]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2009 12:44:40 -0800 Received: from EHB01.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.83) by EDG01.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:44:40 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:44:40 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2009121312443836-334 ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:44:38 -0800 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:44:38 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <864onvksal.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <864onvksal.fsf@ds4.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 12/13/2009 12:44:38, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 12/13/2009 12:44:39, Serialize complete at 12/13/2009 12:44:39 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-559023410-1804928587-1260737078=:6609" Cc: "Aryeh M. Friedman" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:44:41 -0000 ---559023410-1804928587-1260737078=:6609 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > "Aryeh M. Friedman" writes: >> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. > > The fall of the Soviet Union proves you wrong. Yay! Somebody start a *nix store and sell puters WITHOUT Uncle Bill! > > DES > --=20 > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* ---559023410-1804928587-1260737078=:6609-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 20:57:10 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F6F106568D for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:57:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu (iron1.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F1558FC12 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:57:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEACbkJEuC1B9B/2dsb2JhbADFBQEJBYN+iEiCSIFjBIQTgVCEZQ Received: from edg01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.65]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2009 12:57:09 -0800 Received: from EHB01.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.83) by EDG01.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:57:09 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:57:09 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2009121312570743-335 ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:57:07 -0800 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:57:07 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Jayton Garnett In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> <200912131416.56501.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 12/13/2009 12:57:07, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 12/13/2009 12:57:08, Serialize complete at 12/13/2009 12:57:08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Frank Mitchell Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:57:10 -0000 On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Jayton Garnett wrote: > I used to be naive too, thinking Unix was better in all respects. Then got a > job working in a predominately Windows environment, and most of the > problems I encounter are third party software issues - hardly the fault of > Microsoft eh? Yes Unix is far more interesting as you can start with a CLI > and build on that to make what you want, however that is also it's downfall. > The average PC user just about knows how to turn it on, write a document, > browse the web and print. > > Explaining to a computer user non-technical how/why/when to install software > using the ports and make or even pkg_add -r and for them to grasp this > concept is where Windows (OS/X also) is by far the 'better' OS for these > people, which is more than 90% of the population. > THAT's no way to sell computers! Come on man, how's that *Nix Store going to survive with a sale line like that??? > Cheers, > Jay ;) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 22:43:18 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6301065696 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:43:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f228.google.com (mail-fx0-f228.google.com [209.85.220.228]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10CB8FC13 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:43:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm28 with SMTP id 28so890485fxm.13 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:43:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=xjWuTR1B94HfT1lgxtPM2AMB/hPp9OLyJ7zKEVu6kdA=; b=eA4m1LpB4duRMXhZ4kinUti2RA15+88SvxAraNUlPJWEzRDRlSjNBiyJv+MIODrFC0 UbFZChgpYhZZzlQlqh+P2JkGBUdTAs5AcTYq6s7TOPQs36wrH0lzFqe74rbITL9hR92p ERV7p4AkAl8DAavv2hD61t2qo0dy1cy2cs14E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=JtBDNhn8jEL+ZR3NsfWbiDMYP5/svfi2K0HkoKOBdwtzuIaUkV8dJ2TqGWXVX0la0x maSIN4KBWKzVhP+64JmOwtaYkRLBTFI8B5NfZwk6nHI8jHQhy/bEHANjRE6eJGpjio62 V8zw+0wtUFoR5fqIdsc0dEtVRAx2/RWgC8SoQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.86.18 with SMTP id o18mr1544664mul.70.1260744196518; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:43:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> <200912131416.56501.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:43:16 +0000 Message-ID: From: Jayton Garnett To: KAYVEN RIESE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Frank Mitchell Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:43:18 -0000 > > >> THAT's no way to sell computers! Come on man, how's that *Nix Store going > to survive with a sale line like that??? > Fortunately I'm no salesman so I need not worry about that, I leave that to my boss :p I can't even *sell* FreeBSD to my wife as our main OS, let alone strangers :( Cheers, Jay From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 23:40:37 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE33E10656C4 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:40:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron3.sfsu.edu (iron3.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.128]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C2F8FC08 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:40:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAPMIJUuC1B9B/2dsb2JhbADGOgEJBYN0iEiCSIFjBIFigjGGNQ Received: from edg01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.65]) by iron3.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2009 15:40:37 -0800 Received: from EHB01.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.83) by EDG01.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:40:36 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:40:36 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2009121315403490-340 ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:40:34 -0800 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:40:34 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Jayton Garnett In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> <200912131416.56501.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 12/13/2009 15:40:34, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 12/13/2009 15:40:35, Serialize complete at 12/13/2009 15:40:35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Frank Mitchell Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:40:37 -0000 On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Jayton Garnett wrote: >>> THAT's no way to sell computers! Come on man, how's that *Nix Store going >> to survive with a sale line like that??? >> > > Fortunately I'm no salesman so I need not worry about that, I leave that to > my boss :p > > I can't even *sell* FreeBSD to my wife as our main OS, let alone strangers > :( > Like chess.. it's a bit of a fringe market.. but I got this guy, I try to call him my buddy, but he has Asperger's Syndrome so he gets hung up on stuff. He keeps saying "You're not a UNIX guy." That's what you might call a self-fulfilling prophecy, if it weren't for the fact that I learned the vi editor in 1985, never had much hardware over the years. Crashed class at Berzerkeley in molecular biology (MCB--the hardcores not IB).. got a MS, they keep wanting me to do this stuff.. they tell me I'm good with command lines, but I have only been trying to build systems for a couple of years now. I have never touched c# did a foray because I thought "Windows Programming" sounded intriguing.. at this point.. mind you I have no clue about holy wars, well.. I guess I can be RTFM deficient.. so I dropped out of my PhD (that was how I got the MS).. but anyway.. they made me retake data structures in c++ so I did and I did MFC that was fun.. did other things.. I am building a hate for java.. I met this Asperger guy.. and gradually I am trying to "descend" (is that REALLY the right word??? I know it's called "low level," but.. come on.. is this really hell? it is if you believe it!!) into the kernel today I am trying to figure out how to get atomic_dec_and_test working.. I just scored with gcc -lrt -o calc_pi calc_pi.c calc_pi.c: In function 'main': calc_pi.c:21: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ ^C calc_pi calc_pi.c kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ ./calc_pi second resolution: 1260745242nanosecond resolution: 954428309kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ gcc -lrt -o calc_pi calc_pi.c (never mind forgotten '\n's) but I'm sorry you guys. I thought I had an inkling what "hacker" meant but instead of bearing with me.. well.. whatever.. d00d.. I made a proclamation "PC-BSD is dead to me" http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/bsdend/index.vhtml black screen man! wtf?? oh mwwaan!!! now I dun blowed up mah ubuntu: http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/ubuntu_fix/index.vhtml but gentoo gives me purdy flowers: http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/gentoo/index.vhtml tst bin etc lib nexbak sbin tmp vmlinuz.old boot home lost+found opt selinux usr cdrom initrd.img media proc srv var dev initrd.img.old mnt root sys vmlinuz kayve-gentoo ~ # ls /mnt/tst/home kayve scott kayve-gentoo ~ # umount /mnt/tst kayve-gentoo ~ # mount /dev/sdb2 /mnt/tst mount: you must specify the filesystem type kayve-gentoo ~ # mount /dev/sdb5 /mnt/tst /dev/sdb5 looks like swapspace - not mounted mount: you must specify the filesystem type kayve-gentoo ~ # swapon /dev/sdb5 kayve-gentoo ~ # ls /dev/sdb* /dev/sdb /dev/sdb1 /dev/sdb2 /dev/sdb5 kayve-gentoo ~ # mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/ubuntu kayve-gentoo ~ # pwd /root kayve-gentoo ~ # cd emerges kayve-gentoo emerges # ls aisleriot_makesplat.log ntfs3g_makesplat.log astrolog_makesplat.log ntfs_makesplat.log dataplot_makesplat.log oo-ximian_makesplat.log depclean_makesplat.log ooffice-bin-appen_makesplat.log eclipse2_makesplat.log ooffice-bin_makesplat.log eclipse_makesplat.log ooffice2_makesplat.log epix_makesplat.log ooffice_makesplat.log extrema_makesplat.log pgplot_makesplat.log fuse_failed.log plplot_makesplat.log fuse_makesplat.log python_makesplat.log gempak_makesplat.log pyxplot_makesplat.log gftp_makesplat.log qtiplot_makesplat.log ggames_makesplat.log quickplot_makesplat.log gnupg_makesplat.log scidavis_makesplat.log gnuplot_makesplat.log scipy_makesplat.log grace_makesplat.log telnet_makesplat.log graphviz_makesplat.log texlive_makesplat.log labplot_makesplat.log update_revdep.log latex_makesplat.log veusz_makesplat.log loqui_makesplat.log xchat_makesplat.log matplotlib_makesplat.log xd3d_makesplat.log ntfs2_makesplat.log xgraph_makesplat.log kayve-gentoo emerges # tail xgraph_makesplat.log * GNU info directory index is up-to-date. * IMPORTANT: 14 config files in '/etc' need updating. * See the CONFIGURATION FILES section of the emerge * man page to learn how to update config files. kayve-gentoo emerges # exit exit Script done on Wed Dec 9 23:28:20 2009 kayve-gentoo emerges # I is a bad toad. BUT AN EPIC TROLL!!! YAAAY! > Cheers, > Jay > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 23:42:10 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3D11065672 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:42:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu (iron1.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354F08FC1F for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:42:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEANIKJUuC1B9B/2dsb2JhbACkKKIRAQkFg3OISIJIgWMEhBOGNQ Received: from edg01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.65]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2009 15:42:09 -0800 Received: from EHB01.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.83) by EDG01.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:42:09 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:42:09 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2009121315420816-341 ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:42:08 -0800 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:42:07 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Jayton Garnett In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> <200912131416.56501.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 12/13/2009 15:42:08, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 12/13/2009 15:42:08, Serialize complete at 12/13/2009 15:42:08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Frank Mitchell Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:42:10 -0000 On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Jayton Garnett wrote: >> >> >>> THAT's no way to sell computers! Come on man, how's that *Nix Store going >> to survive with a sale line like that??? >> > > Fortunately I'm no salesman so I need not worry about that, I leave that to > my boss :p > > I can't even *sell* FreeBSD to my wife as our main OS, let alone strangers > :( oh jee.. ja gots ta be a member http://main.uschess.org/forums/viewtopic.php&f=24&t=12067 HEARTS BEAT STRONG IN THE FRINGE MARKET! > > Cheers, > Jay > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 13 23:56:39 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999161065670 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:56:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu (iron1.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CAD18FC08 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:56:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AskFAFgOJUuC1B9B/2dsb2JhbACQPgGLUKopAQkFg3KISIJIgWMEgWKCMYY1 Received: from edg01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.65]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2009 15:56:39 -0800 Received: from EHB01.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.83) by EDG01.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:56:38 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:56:38 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2009121315563752-342 ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:56:37 -0800 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:56:37 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 12/13/2009 15:56:37, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 12/13/2009 15:56:38, Serialize complete at 12/13/2009 15:56:38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Subject: HEADS UP! PIP PIP Y'ALL X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:56:39 -0000 Self fulfilling prophecy! That's no way to keep the chins up, mah good man!!!!! kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ man gcc kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ gcc --version gcc (Gentoo 4.3.4 p1.0, pie-10.1.5) 4.3.4 Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 14 06:34:21 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6EC1065676 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:34:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0753B8FC0C for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 30660 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2009 06:07:39 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 14 Dec 2009 06:07:39 -0000 Message-ID: <4B25D646.50200@telenix.org> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:08:06 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jayton Garnett References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> <200912131416.56501.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Frank Mitchell Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:34:21 -0000 Jayton Garnett wrote: > I used to be naive too, thinking Unix was better in all respects. Then got a > job working in a predominately Windows environment, and most of the > problems I encounter are third party software issues - hardly the fault of > Microsoft eh? Yes Unix is far more interesting as you can start with a CLI > and build on that to make what you want, however that is also it's downfall. > The average PC user just about knows how to turn it on, write a document, > browse the web and print. Well, I'm not up on the latest versions of Windows, because I also am a unix-only person. I HAVE made money on Windows software development, because the money was laying there in front of me, but I have no Windows at home. You have made a comment about the 3rd party software being to blame, and while I usually won't contribute to an anti-MS discussion (too easy a target), I will do that here. A major reason that 3rd party software on Windows has a reputation of causing crashes is not because the software is bad, it's because the design of the OS behind it both leaves huge holes for problems, AND hides most of the problems. An instance of poor OS design is the fact that access to the disk is very difficult to do in Unix (you need root permissions to get around using the provided filesystem drivers). MS for years (I am not sure any more, but I knmow for years) has allowed programs, including hordes of cheap shareware items, to write directly tot he disk, which provides landmines on that disk for other programs to step on. A second point is, in Unix, something like a write to memory outside your program's allotment gets you an error and, likely, a core dump. This is immediate and huge incentive for software vendors to find and fix their fatal errors. In Windows, having those fatal errors show themselves has always been advertised as a weakness! So, lots of programs break the OS environment, but the error often won't show in that prog, it shows an hour later when simething else hits a tripwire. So, in Unix, making the errors obvious forces folks who write software to fix the majority of problems. In Windows, you get a very uncertain environment where errors aren't fixed, but remain around and about, waiting to hit some other prog. Isn't it lovely how marketing can portray that as a 'good thing'? Having less opportunity for errors, and having an environment where many errors make themselves immediately (and loudly) known, has always been a lot higher on the Unix list of priorities than Windows. Does anyone who programs currently in Windows (Windows7?) know if they've fixed the FS access, or added stuff like all of our fatal errors (see man 2 intro)? > > Explaining to a computer user non-technical how/why/when to install software > using the ports and make or even pkg_add -r and for them to grasp this > concept is where Windows (OS/X also) is by far the 'better' OS for these > people, which is more than 90% of the population. > > Cheers, > Jay ;) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 14 09:30:06 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940D5106566B for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:30:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from nomoremozzie.com (nomoremozzie.com [67.212.226.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3778FC19 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:30:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sip0006d7447043 (bb121-7-31-249.singnet.com.sg [121.7.31.249]) (authenticated bits=0) by nomoremozzie.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id nBE9GwP4024354; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:17:00 -0700 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:16:53 +0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200912141716.55670.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: "Aryeh M. Friedman" Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:30:06 -0000 Hi, On 12 December 2009 pm 19:42:55 Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The no, it is what happens to all large organisations. The basic idea - at least for NT - was not this bad. Guys who worked on RSX or VMS cannot be that bad. But then they started to put things in because some people started asking for it. Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 14 15:38:46 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DC71065694 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:38:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc4-s4.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc4-s4.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.190.206]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1138FC12 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:38:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W22 ([65.54.190.199]) by bay0-omc4-s4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:38:46 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [69.172.104.30] From: Rick N To: , Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:38:45 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2009 15:38:46.0448 (UTC) FILETIME=[862C6300:01CA7CD3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: RE: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:38:46 -0000 Its not any more of a conspiracy than the "car" industry. Nuthin' really new here :) They're are many parallels with both now today=2C and not just because of t= he digital computer revolution.... =20 I started in the automotive industry many moons ago=2C and since the early= 90's I've watched Microsoft copy their "planned obsolecence" ideals=2C ver= y similarly to the auto-industry=2C (specifically manufacturing). In the old car days its used to be "...yup=2C they sure don't make them li= ke they used to....". You know that's true=2C 'cause to buy a "new" car=2C = up until lately somewhat=2C you needed a small mortgage and you'll be throw= ing that car away in 5 years anyway just like a "Bic" butane lighter. =20 I agree=2C but if Microsoft made it a priority to built hardware/software = to work really well and last longer than my coffee=2C then they wouldn't ev= en be 1/1=2C000th as rich as they are today. =20 The new cars/PC's are both pure "junk" in less than 5 years. =20 =20 > Date: Sat=2C 12 Dec 2009 06:42:55 -0500 > From: aryeh.friedman@gmail.com > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all thes= e years >=20 > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually=20 > know how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only=20 > the first on is a new observation likely): >=20 > * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program=20 > was counterfeit > * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often > * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save=20 > documents > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" =20 _________________________________________________________________ Eligible CDN College & University students can upgrade to Windows 7 before = Jan 3 for only $39.99. Upgrade now! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691819= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 14 15:47:12 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC181065694 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:47:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc4-s7.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc4-s7.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.190.209]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D49548FC23 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:47:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W3 ([65.54.190.199]) by bay0-omc4-s7.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:47:11 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [69.172.104.30] From: Rick N To: , Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:47:11 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2009 15:47:11.0283 (UTC) FILETIME=[B3141830:01CA7CD4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: RE: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:47:12 -0000 Bill Gates=2C and General Motors: =20 For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the way comp= uters have enhanced our lives=2C read on. At a recent computer expo (COMDEX)=2C Bill Gates reportedly "compared" the = computer industry with the auto industry and stated=2C 'If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has=2C we wou= ld all be driving $25 cars that got 1=2C000 miles to the gallon.' In response to Bill ' s comments=2C General Motors issued a press release s= tating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft=2C we would all be driving c= ars with the following characteristics (and I just love this part): 1. For no reason whatsoever=2C your car would crash.........Twice a day. 2.. Every time they repainted the lines in the road=2C you would have to bu= y a new car. 3... Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You woul= d have to pull to the side of the road=2C close all of the windows=2C shut = off the car=2C restart it=2C and reopen the windows before you could contin= ue. For some reason you would simply accept this. 4. Occasionally=2C executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause you= r car to shut down and refuse to restart=2C in which case you would have to= reinstall the engine. 5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun=2C was reliable= =2C five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only f= ive percent of the roads. 6. The oil=2C water temperature=2C and alternator warning lights would all = be replaced by a single 'This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation' warni= ng light. I love the next one!!! 7. The airbag system would ask 'Are you sure?' before deploying. 8. Occasionally=2C for no reason whatsoever=2C your car would lock you out = and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle=2C= turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna. 9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how t= o drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the sa= me manner as the old car. 10. You'd have to press the 'Start' button to turn the engine off. PS - I'd like to add that when all else fails=2C you could call 'customer s= ervice' in some foreign country and be instructed in some foreign language = how to fix your car yourself!!!! Please share this with your friends who love - but sometimes hate - their W= indows computer! =20 cheers=2C :) ----------------------------------------------------- =20 > Date: Sat=2C 12 Dec 2009 06:42:55 -0500 > From: aryeh.friedman@gmail.com > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all thes= e years >=20 > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually=20 > know how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only=20 > the first on is a new observation likely): >=20 > * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program=20 > was counterfeit > * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often > * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save=20 > documents > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" =20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691815= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 14 17:16:03 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD81106566C for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:16:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413468FC08 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:16:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 16so39839fgg.13 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:16:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Zg1+jlPfdkDoKpafxMfTej25TjoI6gzDl3gOyZ6Le20=; b=ke0zjDtf7R3Xkv6Hos3rQfD0IxtGJ0w/snwAdjpi5xnuUCdi2HKrJVSgQ6F0cxZNAb nn55x/5JmkLYToMdq0bxWEkC1PeNaD4ujDorDWngPF08GUpgi9WHlchclgq44ynKOJSz zFUIPSRLK9QnXpMZ8SZoOr68jzH6O9pKbOSv4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=wdR1DEB8h6CnRjvR3pPo/yC7SxARY2sdPKEQpdsLG0FzUWkYsSZ25h8v7OAEFZQNYO UZvnYRy9xr+wJG3vMEpk3vtv90Ws1R1Pj63JnD/xbyzMpGxqCb19Hhj8Nq+4uMKG70pE WEnlJ7+1J41gepO65H9oaMDSB4P0+pyyAZWY8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.88.71 with SMTP id z49mr2137655wee.90.1260810961933; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:16:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:16:01 -0500 Message-ID: From: Aryeh Friedman To: Rick N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:16:03 -0000 > 6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be > replaced by a single 'This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation' warning > light. In case you haven't looked recently they have been repladed by the "check engine" light. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 14 17:22:45 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA58F106566C for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s27.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s27.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.190.165]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39018FC18 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:22:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W22 ([65.54.190.189]) by bay0-omc3-s27.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:22:45 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [69.172.104.30] From: Rick N To: Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:22:45 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com>, , MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2009 17:22:45.0076 (UTC) FILETIME=[0CAF7940:01CA7CE2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: RE: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:22:46 -0000 oh yes I have=2C the ones that "burn out" after a couple years=2C and the= n you're not told if somethin' is wrong? -resulting in more money spent for= repairs. I've seen it happen on about 10% of the cars/trucks.... Thats why they still call them an "idiot light" =20 Rick. =20 > Date: Mon=2C 14 Dec 2009 12:16:01 -0500 > From: aryeh.friedman@gmail.com > To: solarux@hotmail.com > CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all = these years >=20 > > 6. The oil=2C water temperature=2C and alternator warning lights would = all be > > replaced by a single 'This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation' warn= ing > > light. >=20 > In case you haven't looked recently they have been repladed by the > "check engine" light. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" =20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on= Facebook. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691816= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 15 00:23:27 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B5E106568B for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:23:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from nyi.unixathome.org (nyi.unixathome.org [64.147.113.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D117E8FC20 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:23:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D25508A5 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:23:26 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unixathome.org Received: from nyi.unixathome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nyi.unixathome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yZw8wos4env9 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:23:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-auth.unixathome.org (smtp-auth.unixathome.org [10.4.7.7]) (Authenticated sender: hidden) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AB483508A4 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:23:23 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <4B26D6FB.10402@langille.org> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:23:23 -0500 From: Dan Langille User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fbsd_chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: help with gem X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:23:27 -0000 If anyone can help with gem errors, such as those found here, please contact me via IRC: dvl on FreeNode, OFTC, EFNET, or Undernet. Thanks http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.network.conferencing.pentabarf.user/283 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 15 20:47:48 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93767106568B for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:47:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A6F28FC19 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:47:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 6338 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2009 20:47:47 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 15 Dec 2009 20:47:47 -0000 Message-ID: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:48:22 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:47:48 -0000 I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a suggestion for what ports selection might be best. So far, everything I've tried has either been so extremely full of jargon that one can't use it without a semester course in it (or 6 months rereading the UML spec). The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I could use it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid of 5x5 printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it. So, what might be both simpler, and have easier exporting? Thanks From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 15 21:17:28 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A79A106568B for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:17:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (gate6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17AD78FC35 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:17:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBFLHLRf079899; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:17:22 GMT (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk nBFLHLRf079899 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=200708; t=1260911842; bh=TfBwY4ybOEVjywjeEI7NuADd8bVXnmCjVYgY2VwtHek=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References: In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Cc:Content-Type:Date:From:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:Mime-Version:References:To; z=Message-ID:=20<4B27FCDB.6080407@infracaninophile.co.uk>|Date:=20T ue,=2015=20Dec=202009=2021:17:15=20+0000|From:=20Matthew=20Seaman= 20|Organization:=20Infracaninophi le|User-Agent:=20Thunderbird=202.0.0.23=20(X11/20091129)|MIME-Vers ion:=201.0|To:=20Chuck=20Robey=20|CC:=20freebs d-chat@freebsd.org|Subject:=20Re:=20which=20port=20for=20this=20jo b?|References:=20<4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org>|In-Reply-To:=20<4B 27F616.3090009@telenix.org>|X-Enigmail-Version:=200.95.6|Content-T ype:=20multipart/signed=3B=20micalg=3Dpgp-sha256=3B=0D=0A=20protoc ol=3D"application/pgp-signature"=3B=0D=0A=20boundary=3D"---------- --enig0A4D26D427AD2FCCB75076D7"; b=bGCBFwZRjZN4R8BZV0Gp8wXrB6ED8jq+gw+9aLvM2rxxZKrti3x5Tfn9QEonX61Z2 YDLqhiylEtfGJYJ7bxfnYbbmrjrUYJWggvIHlovjRViU6rUzM6VyNwWmsoqmpYkLk5 sV7ZV18xwXPDm1+3PxrWWiU+bhNQlFcuS+T6POqI= X-Authentication-Warning: happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk: Host localhost [IPv6:::1] claimed to be happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Message-ID: <4B27FCDB.6080407@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:17:15 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman Organization: Infracaninophile User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20091129) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey References: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> In-Reply-To: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig0A4D26D427AD2FCCB75076D7" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VERIFIED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:17:28 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig0A4D26D427AD2FCCB75076D7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chuck Robey wrote: > I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a > suggestion for what ports selection might be best. inkscape if you want something point'n'click to draw with. graphviz if you hate the idea of point'n'click. Cheers Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW --------------enig0A4D26D427AD2FCCB75076D7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREIAAYFAksn/OEACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxR0ACeIULb4vX9vKislASgKtf2oYhV EkwAn1CT0cfHnuCb7brxL9p93a6V0Yec =ztlp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig0A4D26D427AD2FCCB75076D7-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 10:44:41 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01930106566B for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:44:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f227.google.com (mail-fx0-f227.google.com [209.85.220.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856308FC1B for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:44:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm27 with SMTP id 27so762543fxm.3 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:44:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:subject:mime-version :content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=78TvBiGzcqMer7hAkWEEQo+9hCEUX9heNiCnu5bn3DI=; b=LjpTlDLKFK0cCaC8XcwSjI6wI5W20WtM0W6FqS+Hd+UJPNAs8BlWK173pdXNWt2yjR NeQIzipgoNo6tM8n9Wal2JmAslSFzbaav9m9rgTk+37x39RiACK0MO+kkmpi5jmEq4PV PoF2iTVThtI3eywUmVxhVA9TxjbWVWc9u84OY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=Tatm59zu3EPoTA/TN1zhY918kfOE8lltsrXTBJdtP6Wmg1tHwXcGYPpp57Ew1Hx4Ax jMsXFhCvk8R0LiYccsQx3GmKIowfTXJ1ujUq8D39OLjxDiuHKUxo2X5+EDjB+UcpmmyI BJmWlC/fDA2vHuLuLlc0k8unzMMTMXMkVBsS0= Received: by 10.223.98.19 with SMTP id o19mr942428fan.82.1260960279259; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.20.3? (131.147.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt [77.54.147.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 16sm266337fxm.0.2009.12.16.02.44.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:44:38 -0800 (PST) Sender: Rui Paulo Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Rui Paulo In-Reply-To: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:44:42 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <24BE9F83-E13F-4F80-B90E-4D2F762701F6@freebsd.org> References: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> To: Chuck Robey X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:44:41 -0000 On 15 Dec 2009, at 20:48, Chuck Robey wrote: > I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a > suggestion for what ports selection might be best. >=20 > So far, everything I've tried has either been so extremely full of = jargon that > one can't use it without a semester course in it (or 6 months = rereading the UML > spec). The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I = could use > it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid = of 5x5 > printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it. Use dia, export to png and resize the diagram with gimp or something = similar. -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 15:54:51 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B9E106566B for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:54:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36AE38FC08 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:54:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBGFsXS5082023; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:54:49 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id nBGFsXBr082022; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:54:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:54:33 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200912161554.nBGFsXBr082022@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, chuckr@telenix.org In-Reply-To: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:54:49 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, chuckr@telenix.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:54:51 -0000 Chuck Robey wrote: > The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I could use > it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid > of 5x5 printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it. Shrinking PDF files can be done with these commands: $ pdf2ps huge.pdf huge.ps $ psresize -W... -H... -w... -h... huge.ps sane.ps $ ps2pdf sane.ps sane.pdf psresize is part of the "psutils" port, and pdf2ps and ps2pdf come from ghostscript. Please see the psresize(1) manual page for details about the options. Of course, all text is shrunk along with the document, so it might become too small (i.e. unreadable). Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "That's what I love about GUIs: They make simple tasks easier, and complex tasks impossible." -- John William Chambless From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 16:00:39 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF571065670 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:00:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539158FC0A for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:00:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2F56D41B; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:00:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1738B8452D; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:00:38 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Chuck Robey References: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:00:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> (Chuck Robey's message of "Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:48:22 -0500") Message-ID: <86d42ekixl.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:00:39 -0000 Chuck Robey writes: > The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I could use > it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid > of 5x5 printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it. AFAIK, dia prints just what you tell it to. The default settings even show page limits on the canvas. Just zoom in before you start drawing, and stay within the dark blue lines. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 16:06:02 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF266106568D for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:06:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840F58FC21 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id nBGFskeR089413 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:55:01 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id ZN4LQX4ylT5f for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:54:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (ezekiel.daleco.biz [66.76.92.18]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBGFs9nF089396 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:54:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:54:09 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090929) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:06:03 -0000 Hello, For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or recommendations? I appreciate your sharing of knowledge. Kevin Kinsey From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 16:24:29 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC52910656A6 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:24:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Received: from ostracod.unsane.co.uk (unsane-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f08:110::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF2A8FC08 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:24:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vhoffman.lon.namesco.net (150.117-84-212.staticip.namesco.net [212.84.117.150]) (authenticated bits=0) by ostracod.unsane.co.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBGGORYd057131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:24:27 GMT (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <4B290992.2090306@unsane.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:23:46 +0000 From: Vincent Hoffman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Kinsey References: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:24:30 -0000 Kevin Kinsey wrote: > Hello, > > For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name > server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was > wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or > recommendations? > Its based on recommendations from others rather than personal experience but have a look at. https://puck.nether.net/dns/login other such as everydns.net twisted4life.com afraid.org I know nothing about. Vince > I appreciate your sharing of knowledge. > > Kevin Kinsey > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 16:30:17 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390A81065676 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@stringsutils.com) Received: from zoraida.natserv.net (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1DC8FC08 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:30:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zoraida.natserv.net (zoraida.natserv.net [66.114.65.147]) by zoraida.natserv.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6957C1704E; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:12:15 -0500 (EST) References: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> Message-ID: X-Mailer: http://www.courier-mta.org/cone/ From: Francisco Reyes To: Kevin Kinsey Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:12:15 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:30:17 -0000 Kevin Kinsey writes: > For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name > server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was Zoneedit.com I think you can get the first 5 domains for free. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 16:40:07 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0506B106566B for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:40:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (adsl-63-193-123-122.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.123.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8448FC16 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:40:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id nBGGOlkF078351; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:24:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from david@bunrab.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id nBGGOlwA078350; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:24:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from david) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:24:47 -0800 From: David Wolfskill To: Kevin Kinsey Message-ID: <20091216162447.GB60443@bunrab.catwhisker.org> References: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YLwdFo+Xu6B7B0Yp" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:40:07 -0000 --YLwdFo+Xu6B7B0Yp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 09:54:09AM -0600, Kevin Kinsey wrote: > Hello, >=20 > For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name > server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was > wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or > recommendations? >=20 > I appreciate your sharing of knowledge. Dunno about the services, per se. But at home, I have a static /32, and I run my own name server (as well as MTA, Web server, ...). As long as it's not for malicious use, I offer to slave zones as well -- after setting up one slave, setting up another s pretty trivial, and the bandwidth hasn't been a significant issue. I prefer that requests for updates arrive via signed email. Some of the folks whose zones I slave also slave=A0mine, so that works out for everyone. (I currently have 3 slaves, which is adequate for me.) Peace, david (current hat: hostmaster@catwhisker.org) --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --YLwdFo+Xu6B7B0Yp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkspCc4ACgkQmprOCmdXAD29fACgh/6dFutyMaTwyyLQB59H4Jmx RXoAn3tf5ZHpMiZrzL02TodeLt+Sef9C =IKcb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YLwdFo+Xu6B7B0Yp-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 16:49:11 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DB31065672 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:49:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexsm@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588CB8FC16 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:49:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 19so449302fgg.13 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:49:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=NxLfhQ46jz+v0hzDoNu1hJHNdxcUbDcVVPFgVG4UeF8=; b=rCHC99tacBqGDOCBIBJ2tfbVdlHqUUn3DObfuD9Ysfn/b934OHFrfEyPzg+Vr+p9sX MJDjY8XW6hjOXqhNzbCtWA3/k14xbowBBPK30G+ZYURqZDPZlWdxRfN6XtkZ4qBklZv9 v05tnPQtGy/NMwOCcLUkMjVGYjJaUD7Nb5IPQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=hr7axAUMfCNsSbNoYeRU4rFmQmW/UWf+MFX6YeX/Stx086AALEiv+nfL6waoaUYEUg V4gyvjV436HOEPa6dM6yZNQ5xmBeM+VLLOeMlt6X9PHgjNRsKz4zzq5qoynzQy479U06 rXP9dOnQWZyb1Y+WA6uhN/qwXgLwcKDTzof/Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.193.68 with SMTP id h4mr132682hbi.161.1260980257188; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:17:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> References: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> From: Alex Moura Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:17:17 -0200 Message-ID: To: Kevin Kinsey X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:59:23 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:49:11 -0000 2009/12/16 Kevin Kinsey > Hello, > > For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name > server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was > wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or > recommendations? > > I appreciate your sharing of knowledge. OpenDNS (208.67.220.220 / 208.67.222.222) has been working fine for me. I don't like the redirection for unresolved names. On the sysadmin side, I like the web control panel to block or allow internal users (and children) access to IPs and/or names. Have not tried the Google DNS (8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4) yet. Best, Alex From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 18:00:44 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F501065676 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:00:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804AE8FC13 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:00:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 5668 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2009 18:00:43 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 16 Dec 2009 18:00:43 -0000 Message-ID: <4B292072.6040502@telenix.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:01:22 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Seaman References: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> <4B27FCDB.6080407@infracaninophile.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4B27FCDB.6080407@infracaninophile.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:00:44 -0000 Matthew Seaman wrote: > Chuck Robey wrote: >> I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a >> suggestion for what ports selection might be best. > > inkscape if you want something point'n'click to draw with. > > graphviz if you hate the idea of point'n'click. Well, actually, I'm after a UML designer, but it has some special needs for me: it has to understand python's arch (not just java, as most do). I've found a couple that go that far, but unbelieveably enough, they won't print... klassmodeler was a big disappointment like that. Dia actually printed it's output, but the authors were so proud of their ability to print huge mosaics made up of bunches of 8.5x11 sheets that they offer no options to get it all into one sheet, even when it s just not all that complicated. Gaphor llikes to coredump, and won't print at all. Argouml doesn't seem to know about python, and it's descendant, poseidon, forces you to buy the "professional" model to get python. Chris Floess suggested Violet or umbrello. umbrello needs kdesdk4, which seems to be in some kind of trouble (it's port is out of sync, version-wise, with other kde4 ports. I can't find tjhe Violet port yet, but I'm looking. If you have any other ideas (and NOT for simple graphics programs) then I'd really appreciate a hint. I wasted a huge amount of time getting my kde4 up to date, only to find that kdesdk4 (which has umbrello) wouldn't build. > > Cheers > > Matthew > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 18:41:37 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA9451065672 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:41:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from mail.bitblocks.com (mail.bitblocks.com [64.142.15.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D15878FC31 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:41:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bitblocks.com (localhost.bitblocks.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.bitblocks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2455B1E; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:24:56 -0800 (PST) To: Chuck Robey In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:01:22 EST." <4B292072.6040502@telenix.org> References: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> <4B27FCDB.6080407@infracaninophile.co.uk> <4B292072.6040502@telenix.org> Comments: In-reply-to Chuck Robey message dated "Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:01:22 -0500." Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:24:56 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Message-Id: <20091216182456.DF2455B1E@mail.bitblocks.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:41:38 -0000 On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:01:22 EST Chuck Robey wrote: > Matthew Seaman wrote: > > Chuck Robey wrote: > >> I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a > >> suggestion for what ports selection might be best. > > > > inkscape if you want something point'n'click to draw with. > > > > graphviz if you hate the idea of point'n'click. > > Well, actually, I'm after a UML designer, but it has some special needs for me: > it has to understand python's arch (not just java, as most do). I've found a > couple that go that far, but unbelieveably enough, they won't print... > klassmodeler was a big disappointment like that. Dia actually printed it's > output, but the authors were so proud of their ability to print huge mosaics > made up of bunches of 8.5x11 sheets that they offer no options to get it all > into one sheet, even when it s just not all that complicated. Googling about this problem reveals http://projects.gnome.org/dia/faq.html#FitToPage Did you try it? I have used tgif, xfig, inkscape, dia etc. in the past. Generally they can all be made to do what you want but you have to spend time learning the tool. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 20:31:42 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B87111065670 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:31:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from c-0500.emailmediator.com (c-0500.emailmediator.com [64.85.162.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96C748FC16 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:31:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pool-71-252-138-179.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.252.138.179] helo=reedmedia.net) by c-0500.emailmediator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NL0X7-0003ez-CT; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:31:41 -0500 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 13158-1260995502; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:31:43 -0600 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:31:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" X-X-Sender: reed@t1.m.reedmedia.net To: Kevin Kinsey In-Reply-To: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> Message-ID: References: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (NEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:31:42 -0000 https://www.isc.org/solutions/sns Free for some nonprofit or public benefit domains. I don't currently use SNS, but I do use its DLV and f.root-servers.net. I work for ISC, but not directly part of the infrastructure service. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 20:57:46 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FFD10656A4 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:57:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@nitro.dk) Received: from mx.nitro.dk (unknown [77.75.165.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BD58FC25 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:57:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from frankie.nitro.dk (unknown [192.168.3.39]) by mx.nitro.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045052D4880; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:55:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by frankie.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 2000) id 7CA72E04A2; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:57:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:57:45 +0100 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Message-ID: <20091216205744.GA1312@frankie.nitro.dk> References: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:57:46 -0000 On 2009.12.16 14:31:42 -0600, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > https://www.isc.org/solutions/sns > > Free for some nonprofit or public benefit domains. I don't currently use > SNS, but I do use its DLV and f.root-servers.net. FWIW: [simon@frankie:~] host -t ns freebsd.org freebsd.org name server ns2.isc-sns.com. freebsd.org name server ns3.isc-sns.info. freebsd.org name server ns1.isc-sns.net. FreeBSD.org has used SNS since May, and it has been running without issues (of course, one should expect ISC knows how to run DNS :-) ). -- Simon L. Nielsen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 16 21:15:25 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77EDE106566C for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:15:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F088FC16 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:15:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 4778 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2009 21:15:24 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 16 Dec 2009 21:15:24 -0000 Message-ID: <4B294E14.6010801@telenix.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:16:04 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bakul Shah References: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> <4B27FCDB.6080407@infracaninophile.co.uk> <4B292072.6040502@telenix.org> <20091216182456.DF2455B1E@mail.bitblocks.com> In-Reply-To: <20091216182456.DF2455B1E@mail.bitblocks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:15:25 -0000 Bakul Shah wrote: > On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:01:22 EST Chuck Robey wrote: >> Matthew Seaman wrote: >>> Chuck Robey wrote: >>>> I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a >>>> suggestion for what ports selection might be best. >>> inkscape if you want something point'n'click to draw with. >>> >>> graphviz if you hate the idea of point'n'click. >> Well, actually, I'm after a UML designer, but it has some special needs for me: >> it has to understand python's arch (not just java, as most do). I've found a >> couple that go that far, but unbelieveably enough, they won't print... >> klassmodeler was a big disappointment like that. Dia actually printed it's >> output, but the authors were so proud of their ability to print huge mosaics >> made up of bunches of 8.5x11 sheets that they offer no options to get it all >> into one sheet, even when it s just not all that complicated. > > Googling about this problem reveals > http://projects.gnome.org/dia/faq.html#FitToPage > Did you try it? > > I have used tgif, xfig, inkscape, dia etc. in the past. > Generally they can all be made to do what you want but you > have to spend time learning the tool. Well, yes, I went thru that page before sending the email to the ports list. Here, I was trying (if possible) to choose a port. Looks like a lot of the ports, besides having packages which do the exact same thing scattered over multiple directories, nearly everything I found had one or more problems with it. I haven't yet been able to test all the ones I put on my candidate list (several infrastructure software build faults) but of all I have found, it seems like the Java app "Violet" is the best for me. Ah, well, it's not perfect, but it works, it prints without coredumping, and delivers reasonable images. AND it doesn't force me to think Java when I'm designing a python app (that's highly confusing). From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 17 01:00:05 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E652106566B for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:00:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from djr@pdconsec.net) Received: from ipmail03.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail03.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.135]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25788FC08 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:00:04 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEABcOKUuWZcBC/2dsb2JhbADVLIIzgXgE Received: from goliath.pdconsec.net (HELO smtp.pdconsec.net) ([150.101.192.66]) by ipmail03.adl2.internode.on.net with SMTP; 17 Dec 2009 11:14:46 +1030 Received: from mail1.pdconsec.net ([192.168.1.41] helo=mail1.pdconsec.net) with IPv4:25 by smtp.pdconsec.net; 17 Dec 2009 11:46:13 +1100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:44:54 +1100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Free secondary DNS? Thread-Index: Acp+nyBiSnvVwD4aQ++/Dbp8xh7zwAACeGvp References: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> From: "David Rawling" To: "Kevin Kinsey" , "FreeBSD Chat" Cc: Subject: RE: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:00:05 -0000 Kevin Kinsey wrote: >For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name >server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was >wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or >recommendations? I did look into this a few months ago - and decided to set up my own = machine running WebMin and FreeBSD 8 on a customer site instead = (obviously with permission - it also provides them with extra services = for no charge to them). In my case I just couldn't find one that I was comfortable with - either = the offers were not clearly free, or they wouldn't permit me to run the = master, there were limitations on the number of zones and so on. The = arrangement also lets me run a secondary mail server with anti-spam = measures - minimal, but seems to be saving me upwards of 3GB/month on my = limited Australian internet connection :) Dave. -- David Rawling PD Consulting And Security Email: djr@pdconsec.net From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 17 03:30:22 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AFA9106568B for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:30:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C118FC12 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:30:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 12546 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2009 03:30:21 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 17 Dec 2009 03:30:21 -0000 Message-ID: <4B29A5F6.3080109@telenix.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:31:02 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rui Paulo References: <4B27F616.3090009@telenix.org> <24BE9F83-E13F-4F80-B90E-4D2F762701F6@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <24BE9F83-E13F-4F80-B90E-4D2F762701F6@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: which port for this job? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:30:22 -0000 Rui Paulo wrote: > On 15 Dec 2009, at 20:48, Chuck Robey wrote: > >> I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a >> suggestion for what ports selection might be best. >> >> So far, everything I've tried has either been so extremely full of jargon that >> one can't use it without a semester course in it (or 6 months rereading the UML >> spec). The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I could use >> it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid of 5x5 >> printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it. > > Use dia, export to png and resize the diagram with gimp or something similar. > I finally just figured out how to get dia to stop printing those huge mosaics, and since it has a pretty good balance between complexity/simplicity in the UI (most power without requiring me to keep the UML spec open on my knee) I think I might just back away from Violet and use Dia instead. Thanks > -- > Rui Paulo > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 18 11:31:40 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF74A106568F for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:31:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9188A8FC22 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:31:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9EC16D457; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:31:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9CD9284549; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:31:39 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Alex Moura References: <4B2902A1.1060402@daleco.biz> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:31:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Alex Moura's message of "Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:17:17 -0200") Message-ID: <864onocyck.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Free secondary DNS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:31:40 -0000 Alex Moura writes: > Kevin Kinsey writes: > > For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name > > server. [...] > OpenDNS (208.67.220.220 / 208.67.222.222) [...] is not what he asked for, and neither is > [...] Google DNS (8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4) [...] He asked for a secondary name server for his own domains. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no