From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 14 20:33:52 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FB91065739 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:33:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk) Received: from relay.pcl-ipout01.plus.net (relay.pcl-ipout01.plus.net [212.159.7.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04A48FC1B for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:33:51 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEABHtd0vUnw4T/2dsb2JhbACbHXS7IoRbBA Received: from pih-relay06.plus.net ([212.159.14.19]) by relay.pcl-ipout01.plus.net with ESMTP; 14 Feb 2010 20:33:49 +0000 Received: from [81.174.214.116] (helo=81-174-214-116.pth-as7.dial.plus.net) by pih-relay06.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1NglA4-0005zu-TD; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:33:49 +0000 From: Frank Mitchell To: staffslug@staffslug.org.uk, sc@mailman.lug.org.uk, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:32:55 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201002142032.55807.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Plusnet-Relay: 016e30f8570d1fe31b03b7b5e0455785 Cc: Subject: ISO Image dd To DVD+RW X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:33:52 -0000 Hi: Latest issue of Linux Format Mag gives you a DVD ISO Image for FreeBSD v8.0, which I happen to be interested in. I was also looking for an interesting use for my DVD+RW disks. I read somewhere you could "dd" straight from an ISO Image file to DVD+RW, though I couldn't remember where. Previously I thought you could put an Ext2 Filesystem on DVD+RW, which turned out to be wrong. It worked the first time I tried, but not the second. But this experiment with "dd" worked, though I'm still unsure about how to use some of the options properly. Basically (under Linux) I put: dd if=FreeBSD-8.iso of=/dev/sr1 ibs=512 obs=32768 conv=sync And my DVD+RW wrote okay, showing: 3986344+0 Records In 62286+1 Records Out Note that DVDs use 2048-byte Sectors like CDs, but they're handled in Error-Correcting Super-Blocks of 16. DVD+RW can write individual Sectors, but only by updating the entire Super-Block. My first attempt tried writing with a BlockSize of 2048, whereupon Drive /dev/sr1 sat there winding the disk back and forth, presumably writing every Super-Block 16 times over. With a total BlockSize of 32768 things went alot more smoothly. The 62286+1 Records Out are Super-Blocks with an extra one partially written. The original 3986344 Records were 512-byte Disk Blocks, which make a whole number of 2048-byte DVD Sectors, but not Super-Blocks. Then I wrote it back to a file so I could check the result using diff: dd if=/dev/sr1 of=CHECK.ISO bs=2048 count=996586 conv=notrunc Here it's okay to read the DVD as 2048-byte Sectors, because they're individually addressable. You need the count to stop the entire DVD getting imaged, all 4.7 GB, which happened the first time I tried. And of course it's the count of 2048-byte Sectors, which is 3986344/4. CHECK.ISO was identical to the original Iso Image, and I was able to use the DVD+RW to install FreeBSD v8.0. Which left me with the same Xorg Configuration problems as FreeBSD v7.2, but that's another story... Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 15 10:55:50 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206971065670 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:55:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963518FC0C for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:55:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1FAtWmi072145; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:55:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o1FAtVwA072144; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:55:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:55:31 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <201002151055.o1FAtVwA072144@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk, staffslug@staffslug.org.uk, sc@mailman.lug.org.uk In-Reply-To: <201002142032.55807.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:55:47 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: ISO Image dd To DVD+RW X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk, staffslug@staffslug.org.uk, sc@mailman.lug.org.uk List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:55:50 -0000 Frank Mitchell <> wrote: > Latest issue of Linux Format Mag gives you a DVD ISO Image for FreeBSD v8.0, > which I happen to be interested in. I was also looking for an interesting use > for my DVD+RW disks. I read somewhere you could "dd" straight from an ISO > Image file to DVD+RW, though I couldn't remember where. Don't know about Linux, but on FreeBSD you can use the growisofs tool from the "dvd+rw" tools collection (ports/sysutils/dvd+rw-tools). The syntax is simple: growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/cd0=dvdimage.iso (/dev/cd0 is my dvd drive.) I think you can also use the burncd tool that is part of FreeBSD's base system, but I haven't tried to do that. growisofs works perfectly fine for me (it also handles double-layer media (8.5 GB) correctly, BTW). You cannot use dd for that purpose because dd doesn't have special knowledge about the recording process, e.g. it doesn't know how to determine the laser power, it doesn't know how to enable burn-proof, it doesn't know how to fixate a CD or DVD, i.e. the session won't be closed properly, and so on. That's why a special-purpose tool is better suited to handle recording of CD and DVD media. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "The last good thing written in C was Franz Schubert's Symphony number 9." -- Erwin Dieterich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 16 18:47:38 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05CA106568B for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:47:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk) Received: from relay.pcl-ipout02.plus.net (relay.pcl-ipout02.plus.net [212.159.7.100]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FCBB8FC0C for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:47:38 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAHR3ekvUnw4T/2dsb2JhbACbGXS9fYRbBA Received: from pih-relay06.plus.net ([212.159.14.19]) by relay.pcl-ipout02.plus.net with ESMTP; 16 Feb 2010 18:47:36 +0000 Received: from [81.174.210.103] (helo=81-174-210-103.pth-as3.dial.plus.net) by pih-relay06.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1NhSSN-0004JX-Qk; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:47:36 +0000 From: Frank Mitchell To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, staffslug@staffslug.org.uk, sc@mailman.lug.org.uk Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:48:15 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <201002151055.o1FAtVwA072144@lurza.secnetix.de> In-Reply-To: <201002151055.o1FAtVwA072144@lurza.secnetix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201002161848.16073.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> X-Plusnet-Relay: aff0c1bee14ec0256ca87a9803b288d5 Cc: Subject: Re: [SC.LUG] ISO Image dd To DVD+RW X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:47:38 -0000 Hmm: I reckon you need to use Formatted Media, which DVD+RW must be. It's Random= ly=20 Addressable, so you don't need to Close Session like on a Read-Only Disk.=20 Buffer Underruns are supposed to be irrelevant using DVD+. And the Drive=20 itself can calibrate the Optical Power from the Disk itself. I know I read= =20 about this somewhere, and the article in question was saying you could=20 archive tar files this way. Anybody got any further info? On Monday 15 February 2010 10:55:31 Oliver Fromme wrote: > Frank Mitchell <> wrote: > > Latest issue of Linux Format Mag gives you a DVD ISO Image for FreeBSD= =20 v8.0,=20 > > which I happen to be interested in. I was also looking for an interest= ing=20 use=20 > > for my DVD+RW disks. I read somewhere you could "dd" straight from an = ISO=20 > > Image file to DVD+RW, though I couldn't remember where. >=20 > Don't know about Linux, but on FreeBSD you can use the growisofs tool > from the "dvd+rw" tools collection (ports/sysutils/dvd+rw-tools). > The syntax is simple: growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/cd0=3Ddvdimage.iso > (/dev/cd0 is my dvd drive.) I think you can also use the burncd > tool that is part of FreeBSD's base system, but I haven't tried to > do that. growisofs works perfectly fine for me (it also handles > double-layer media (8.5 GB) correctly, BTW). >=20 > You cannot use dd for that purpose because dd doesn't have special > knowledge about the recording process, e.g. it doesn't know how to > determine the laser power, it doesn't know how to enable burn-proof, > it doesn't know how to fixate a CD or DVD, i.e. the session won't > be closed properly, and so on. That's why a special-purpose tool > is better suited to handle recording of CD and DVD media. >=20 > Best regards > Oliver >=20 > --=20 > Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. > Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch=E4ftsfuehrun= g: > secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M=FC= n- > chen, HRB 125758, Gesch=E4ftsf=FChrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Geb= hart >=20 > FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd >=20 > "The last good thing written in C was > Franz Schubert's Symphony number 9." > -- Erwin Dieterich >=20 > _______________________________________________ > SC mailing list > SC@mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/sc >=20 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 17 13:04:18 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7567106566C for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:04:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6218FC0C for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:04:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1HD41g9097348; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:04:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o1HD40vO097347; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:04:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:04:00 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <201002171304.o1HD40vO097347@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <201002161848.16073.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:04:16 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: [SC.LUG] ISO Image dd To DVD+RW X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:04:18 -0000 Frank Mitchell wrote: > I reckon you need to use Formatted Media, which DVD+RW must be. I don't think you need to format it if you're just going to write an ISO image to it. (Personally I avoid DVD+/-RW, so I can't tell for sure, but I guess it shouldn't be much different from CD-RW as far as writing an ISO image goes.) Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "File names are infinite in length, where infinity is set to 255 characters." -- Peter Collinson, "The Unix File System" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 10:06:35 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47788106566C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from corky1951@comcast.net) Received: from qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.228]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A8E8FC13 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.27]) by qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id jMzd1d0030b6N64AFN6bz5; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:35 +0000 Received: from comcast.net ([98.203.142.76]) by omta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id jN6Z1d0021f6R9u8PN6aDD; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:35 +0000 Received: by comcast.net (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:06:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:06:32 -0800 From: Charlie Kester To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mutt 1.5.20 X-Composer: VIM 7.2 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Subject: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:35 -0000 http://linuxbsdos.com/2010/02/18/pc-bsds-graphical-firewall-manager/ "PC-BSD is ... the only BSD-based distribution that=E2=80=99s in a position= to compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..." From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 10:16:14 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E9081065672 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f219.google.com (mail-fx0-f219.google.com [209.85.220.219]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6CF78FC0A for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm19 with SMTP id 19so1278235fxm.3 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:16:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=RGyn0MKBKrMLNJpuMchtlH0fGDCOFSdpzIoygzVpSYg=; b=cLepq4GqM0cpSci1VmUe4V8rUn1JDa5D/AvXmrAVcK2MpHL53S4sGAsyfzg1aqoMIb 9NhpIZ/An6UIRoDii08EOydQG8MrDFnnTAwv5O3In9TnLtKsJ9za/9CjSr1IMV6vriJk mjLxJdGJNB1bJTdBZsaQQDtwcgvgn0oQwx7vs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=OR/j8SVBAxs5aednHF+94QlszQ54xr24EAbFPLRfA06GT87hMItFP+6NTIG+e51VWm Zc4LvbxwyTpgkGvIgHIqqbbx4y3KPlW2TgHYHSpYtWP7CG5X2AA7ORYOM04uwhmfOycw j6JrG7NnqCkvbgqYxwltqjwyq/FCFXa+92h2M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.16.83 with SMTP id n19mr1990955bka.96.1266488172307; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:16:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:12 +0000 Message-ID: From: Jayton Garnett To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:14 -0000 That's a fair enough comment really. To the average PC user, yes it is going to be the only one to compete with Ubuntu - unsuccessfully. To the higher life forms - e.g. uber g33ks like us, no. Although when I tried it out, I did quite enjoy the experience of PCBSD. The keywords there is 'desktop distributions'. FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, and requires prior knowledge of what and where things are to get FreeBSD into a workable desktop environment, whereas PCBSD is more plug'n play and dare I say it 'just works'. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 10:20:29 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F6A1065672 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:20:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from poseidon.ceid.upatras.gr (poseidon.ceid.upatras.gr [150.140.141.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EFEC8FC19 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.ceid.upatras.gr (unknown [10.1.0.143]) by poseidon.ceid.upatras.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ABE9EB48D6 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (europa.ceid.upatras.gr [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ceid.upatras.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9EA3160C7D for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:26 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ceid.upatras.gr Received: from mail.ceid.upatras.gr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (europa.ceid.upatras.gr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nZ40QYvKRxZ1 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from kobe.laptop (ppp-94-64-221-118.home.otenet.gr [94.64.221.118]) by mail.ceid.upatras.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2BFE160C76 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o1IAKP5s004019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:26 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id o1IAKPHl004016; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:25 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) From: Giorgos Keramidas To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> (Charlie Kester's message of "Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:06:32 -0800") Message-ID: <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:20:29 -0000 On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:06:32 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote: > http://linuxbsdos.com/2010/02/18/pc-bsds-graphical-firewall-manager/ > > "PC-BSD is ... the only BSD-based distribution that's in a position to > compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..." > > This is a pretty realistic way to put it, IMO. Note that, to PC-BSD's credit, it is compares with the *best* Linux distributions. That's a nice way of saying how cool PC-BSD is :-) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 11:05:53 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 171A31065692 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:05:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (gate6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E108FC15 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:05:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o1IB5k4m025817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:05:47 GMT (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Message-ID: <4B7D1F0A.6010804@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:05:46 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman Organization: Infracaninophile User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> In-Reply-To: <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_ALL, SPF_FAIL autolearn=no version=3.3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.0 (2010-01-18) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:05:53 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 18/02/2010 10:20, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:06:32 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote: >> http://linuxbsdos.com/2010/02/18/pc-bsds-graphical-firewall-manager/ >> >> "PC-BSD is ... the only BSD-based distribution that's in a position to >> compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..." >> >> > > This is a pretty realistic way to put it, IMO. Note that, to PC-BSD's > credit, it is compares with the *best* Linux distributions. That's a > nice way of saying how cool PC-BSD is :-) Interesting though that the feature he chooses to highlight is the PF configuration applet. Sure PF knocks the socks off ipchains and the other packet filters available under Linux, but judging by what he shows, the configuration applet simplifies things so much it doesn't really expose any of the bits that make PF special. That applet could generate configs for just about any packet filter in existence with no change to the user interface. Saying "there's this really great firewall on PC-BSD, but the configuration app doesn't let you use it very well" doesn't really strike me as a positive statement about PC-BSD. Perhaps there's an "I know what I'm doing" button somewhere yet to be mentioned which enables managing more complicated stuff? Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkt9HwoACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxwYQCfd4ga2Zp8d9UNVUG9vfmMBMOx FfcAn1hjwtCVfFZgl4A+LWSdmje2rnlj =f3pv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 12:56:27 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C999106566B for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:56:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd32@freeode.co.uk) Received: from mail22.extendcp.co.uk (mail22.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.40.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FC68FC13 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:56:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [78.33.177.2] (helo=asus) by mail22.extendcp.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.70) id 1Ni5vd-0004HM-EH for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:56:25 +0000 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:56:25 +0000 From: John Murphy To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20100218125625.29910535@asus> In-Reply-To: References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.2 (GTK+ 2.18.3; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:56:27 -0000 On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:12 +0000, Jayton Garnett wrote: > FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ... What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now? -- John. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 13:13:09 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910611065672 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:13:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F078FC0C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:13:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vampire.homelinux.org (dslb-088-064-188-084.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.64.188.84]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MIjAi-1NftGe0OuO-002RrX; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:13:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 38052 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2010 13:13:07 -0000 Received: from f8x64.laiers.local (192.168.4.188) by laiers.local with SMTP; 18 Feb 2010 13:13:07 -0000 From: Max Laier Organization: FreeBSD To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:13:06 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.12.4 (FreeBSD/8.0-RELEASE-p2; KDE/4.3.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> In-Reply-To: <20100218125625.29910535@asus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201002181413.06982.max@love2party.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1872kHmyCJXi8XbL5BCMi5+TGkO2bYND4KVS0T 9aiqlKd4F3OJ5A9Ko1vf7LPMPAvY722xzGWwHc4afOMmseOIeg aQx1fLgQAEGBxnQAoARrA== Cc: John Murphy Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:13:09 -0000 On Thursday 18 February 2010 13:56:25 John Murphy wrote: > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:12 +0000, Jayton Garnett wrote: > > FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ... > > What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now? The BSD-Distro to play with midi is called OS X ;) Cheers, Max From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 14:49:11 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 132CF1065672 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:49:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd32@freeode.co.uk) Received: from mail22.extendcp.co.uk (mail22.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.40.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9908FC21 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:49:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [78.33.177.2] (helo=asus) by mail22.extendcp.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.70) id 1Ni7gj-0003G1-Ir for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:49:09 +0000 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:49:09 +0000 From: John Murphy To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20100218144909.4ff43b4a@asus> In-Reply-To: <201002181413.06982.max@love2party.net> References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> <201002181413.06982.max@love2party.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.2 (GTK+ 2.18.3; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:49:11 -0000 On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:13:06 +0100, Max Laier wrote: > On Thursday 18 February 2010 13:56:25 John Murphy wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:12 +0000, Jayton Garnett wrote: > > > FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ... > > > > What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now? > > The BSD-Distro to play with midi is called OS X ;) > > Cheers, > Max "Those who would give up freedom for midi deserve neither freedom or midi." :) -- John. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 16:04:05 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BDFA106568F for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:04:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shurd@sasktel.net) Received: from gluon.sasknet.sk.ca (gluon.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.20.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12B08FC0C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:04:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (gluon [127.0.0.1]) by gluon.sasknet.sk.ca (8.14.3/8.14.3) with SMTP id o1IFrGqD024648 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:53:34 -0600 Received: from bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (bgmpOMR1.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.72.22]) by gluon.sasknet.sk.ca with ESMTP id m17nuc8c9-1 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:53:33 -0600 Received: from ace.hurd.local (outgoing.bbsdev.net [76.202.204.46]) by bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (SaskTel eMessaging Service) with ESMTPA id <0KY100BC5O58LY10@bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:53:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:53:31 -0800 From: Stephen Hurd In-reply-to: <20100218125625.29910535@asus> To: John Murphy Message-id: <4B7D627B.1070800@sasktel.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20091205 SeaMonkey/1.1.18 Mnenhy/0.7.6.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=1.12.8161:2.4.5, 1.2.40, 4.0.166 definitions=2010-02-18_10:2010-02-06, 2010-02-18, 2010-02-18 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=5.0.0-0908210000 definitions=main-1002180108 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:04:05 -0000 John Murphy wrote: > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:12 +0000, Jayton Garnett wrote: > > >> FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ... >> > > What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now? > You mean driving MIDI hardware or the ability to play MIDI files? I've never used any of my MIDI hardware, and I use timidity for playing MIDI format. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 16:10:17 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002EF106568D for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:10:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shurd@sasktel.net) Received: from proton.sasknet.sk.ca (proton.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.20.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56A68FC20 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:10:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (proton [127.0.0.1]) by proton.sasknet.sk.ca (8.14.3/8.14.3) with SMTP id o1IFrHZh014579 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:56:59 -0600 Received: from bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (bgmpOMR1.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.72.22]) by proton.sasknet.sk.ca with ESMTP id m17srv224-1 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:56:59 -0600 Received: from ace.hurd.local (outgoing.bbsdev.net [76.202.204.46]) by bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (SaskTel eMessaging Service) with ESMTPA id <0KY100BF6OAXLY10@bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:56:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:56:57 -0800 From: Stephen Hurd In-reply-to: <4B7D1F0A.6010804@infracaninophile.co.uk> To: Matthew Seaman Message-id: <4B7D6349.603@sasktel.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> <4B7D1F0A.6010804@infracaninophile.co.uk> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20091205 SeaMonkey/1.1.18 Mnenhy/0.7.6.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=1.12.8161:2.4.5, 1.2.40, 4.0.166 definitions=2010-02-18_10:2010-02-06, 2010-02-18, 2010-02-18 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=5.0.0-0908210000 definitions=main-1002180108 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:10:17 -0000 Matthew Seaman wrote: > Saying "there's this really great firewall on PC-BSD, but the > configuration app doesn't let you use it very well" doesn't really > strike me as a positive statement about PC-BSD. Perhaps there's an "I > know what I'm doing" button somewhere yet to be mentioned which enables > managing more complicated stuff? > That's actually a very good comparison to the best Linux distros... the only tricks that PC-BSD missed are moving the configuration files into some unfindable place and re-generating them from a different file that the GUI generates in yet a a third place on every boot. Once the ability to tweak it if you know what you want and how to use the software is removed and then it will be the equal of the best of Linux distros. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 16:50:47 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E743106568D for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:50:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000F78FC13 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:50:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o1IGoi07092466; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:50:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id x9RJXnhHWDa6; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:50:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (ezekiel.daleco.biz [66.76.92.18]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1IGn6lu092397; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:49:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <4B7D6F82.4070402@daleco.biz> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:49:06 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090929) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Hurd References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> <4B7D1F0A.6010804@infracaninophile.co.uk> <4B7D6349.603@sasktel.net> In-Reply-To: <4B7D6349.603@sasktel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:50:47 -0000 Stephen Hurd wrote: > Matthew Seaman wrote: >> Saying "there's this really great firewall on PC-BSD, but the >> configuration app doesn't let you use it very well" doesn't really >> strike me as a positive statement about PC-BSD. Perhaps there's an "I >> know what I'm doing" button somewhere yet to be mentioned which enables >> managing more complicated stuff? >> > > That's actually a very good comparison to the best Linux distros... the > only tricks that PC-BSD missed are moving the configuration files into > some unfindable place and re-generating them from a different file that > the GUI generates in yet a a third place on every boot. Once the > ability to tweak it if you know what you want and how to use the > software is removed and then it will be the equal of the best of Linux > distros. [Root@Tux][/proc]$man ls no manual entry for 'ls' So, no "man" pages?? What brave soul will fight the demasculinization of Beastie??! KDK From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 17:04:03 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CEF1065672 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:04:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37FE98FC13 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:04:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463E71FFC22; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:04:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 22F5584530; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:04:02 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Stephen Hurd References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> <4B7D627B.1070800@sasktel.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:04:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4B7D627B.1070800@sasktel.net> (Stephen Hurd's message of "Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:53:31 -0800") Message-ID: <86ljeqfpbx.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: John Murphy , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:04:03 -0000 Stephen Hurd writes: > John Murphy writes: > > Jayton Garnett writes: > > > FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ... > > What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now? > You mean driving MIDI hardware or the ability to play MIDI files? The former. It's ancient FreeBSD history: our current audio framework did not initially support MIDI, while the one it replaced did. There was much bad blood at the time between supporters of the old framework (people who used MIDI) and supporters of the new framework (everybody else). DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 18:00:52 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A151065672 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:00:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f216.google.com (mail-bw0-f216.google.com [209.85.218.216]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B9D8FC08 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz8 with SMTP id 8so405379bwz.3 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:00:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=EbzRCHAol3dTWqJ3Mmp5qM59rAHBfNJpmBOI4vOoRSc=; b=tEyWvA7tggvcHnvP+wQq6y2meC44IZgQH22vvmjVaNQwbctdYoViDN003pHp+/FWbA VTWFoB7uLKaTxdT0tqGB2E+BWQZQ+EawFbvIMPFLAnh10xuIwRkU0XyCK/OR++ZzdH3E 8B+mslUccdAW+hb50i/lg9IUkosDOmh71cR6s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Wc/7Tezwnp52OguMLN2Pvt8CB1LYQd8DUXIuymhzoTnPX+Z2z4feQe3EeDjd0QHsq3 PM41D5UitoEVMOoyIh1VzeiF7pl7mJaoUxDnY59OQNpP32ZGtDr6EijghdvvjofDWz2h 0Zc3Q1Fdvo68kyXcRFZeE0FvDK6iSII0ULzO0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.77 with SMTP id s13mr6126174bkd.42.1266516049857; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:00:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <86ljeqfpbx.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> <4B7D627B.1070800@sasktel.net> <86ljeqfpbx.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:00:47 +0000 Message-ID: From: Jayton Garnett To: FreeBSD Chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:00:52 -0000 Why would I be bothered about MIDI? I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround Sound. 5.1 surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it? Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will be streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is. How will your MIDI cope then? mv /dev/midi* /dev/null ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 18:25:01 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCD01065676 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:25:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B55F8FC0C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:25:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from anne-o1dpaayth1.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04818; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:24:55 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201002181824.LAA04818@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:24:44 -0700 To: Charlie Kester , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:25:01 -0000 At 03:06 AM 2/18/2010, Charlie Kester wrote: >http://linuxbsdos.com/2010/02/18/pc-bsds-graphical-firewall-manager/ > >"PC-BSD is ... the only BSD-based distribution that’s in a position to >compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..." Wish it were fully BSD-based! Alas, it uses a GPLed GUI. (Yes, I know that this doesn't matter to everyone, but it matters a lot to me personally. I want to be able to hack on the code without lending support to the political agenda that accompanies the GPL; I also do not want to open myself to appropriation of my work due to having inspected GPLed code. No flame wars, please.) In any event, if I were to run a FreeBSD-based desktop system (as opposed to servers and appliances, which is what I do with FreeBSD), I'd want the GUI to be BSD-licensed or Apache-licensed. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 18:37:49 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612861065694 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:37:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@rgbaz.eu) Received: from jasper.secsrv.net (jasper.secsrv.net [66.98.138.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1138FC1C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:37:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [82.161.18.200] (helo=[10.0.1.2]) by jasper.secsrv.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiBFt-0000H6-13 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:37:41 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: FBSD UG In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:37:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> <4B7D627B.1070800@sasktel.net> <86ljeqfpbx.fsf@ds4.des.no> To: FreeBSD Chat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - jasper.secsrv.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - rgbaz.eu X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Midi (was: LinuxBSDos.com article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:37:49 -0000 On 18 feb 2010, at 19:00, Jayton Garnett wrote: > Why would I be bothered about MIDI? > I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround Sound. 5.1 > surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it? > > Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will be > streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is. > How will your MIDI cope then? midi has nothing to do with audio. it's a protocol to automate keys and sliders, send tempo, velocity, etc etc on synthesizers, filters or even light equipment. it's still a big part in audiostudios. Arno From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 18:38:48 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFBD11065698 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e.0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.67.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913618FC32 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:38:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.0x20.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 2C2493A650; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:38:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:38:47 +0100 From: Lars Engels To: Brett Glass Message-ID: <20100218183847.GK27126@e.0x20.net> References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <201002181824.LAA04818@lariat.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pYU1PAVEPli1Yt9/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201002181824.LAA04818@lariat.net> X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.2 X-Operation-System: FreeBSD 5.5-RELEASE-p19 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: Charlie Kester , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:38:48 -0000 --pYU1PAVEPli1Yt9/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:24:44AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 03:06 AM 2/18/2010, Charlie Kester wrote: >=20 > >http://linuxbsdos.com/2010/02/18/pc-bsds-graphical-firewall-manager/ > > > >"PC-BSD is ... the only BSD-based distribution that=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=99s i= n a position to > >compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..." >=20 > Wish it were fully BSD-based! Alas, it uses a GPLed GUI. (Yes, I=20 > know that this doesn't matter to everyone, but it matters a lot to=20 > me personally. I want to be able to hack on the code without=20 > lending support to the political agenda that accompanies the GPL; I=20 > also do not want to open myself to appropriation of my work due to=20 > having inspected GPLed code. No flame wars, please.) >=20 > In any event, if I were to run a FreeBSD-based desktop system (as=20 > opposed to servers and appliances, which is what I do with=20 > FreeBSD), I'd want the GUI to be BSD-licensed or Apache-licensed. Fluxbox is also in PCBSD's base system. It is released under a BSD license. --pYU1PAVEPli1Yt9/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkt9iTYACgkQKc512sD3afiaKgCfTZS9gqH3qZu1k7uQ9JzJZJK6 vhQAoJvLQP9BLVsd0o7lkUH7qOgXIveF =BKot -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pYU1PAVEPli1Yt9/-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 19:22:21 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A6D1065695 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:22:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hurds@sasktel.net) Received: from electron.sasknet.sk.ca (electron.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.20.179]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D3278FC16 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:22:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (electron [127.0.0.1]) by electron.sasknet.sk.ca (8.14.3/8.14.3) with SMTP id o1IJ8FX8001626 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:12:07 -0600 Received: from bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (bgmpOMR1.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.72.22]) by electron.sasknet.sk.ca with ESMTP id m1bd3g6cd-1 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:12:06 -0600 Received: from sasktel.net ([192.168.234.97]) by bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (SaskTel eMessaging Service) with ESMTP id <0KY100HT3XC6K080@bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:12:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.234.25] (Forwarded-For: [216.31.211.11]) by cgmail1.sasknet.sk.ca (mshttpd); Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:12:06 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:12:06 -0800 From: Stephen Hurd To: Jayton Garnett Message-id: <610feea916977.4b7d2086@sasktel.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.1 HotFix 0.20 (built Feb 27 2006) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=1.12.8161:2.4.5, 1.2.40, 4.0.166 definitions=2010-02-18_14:2010-02-06, 2010-02-18, 2010-02-18 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=5.0.0-0908210000 definitions=main-1002180145 Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:22:21 -0000 That's like saying "Why bother with TCP/IP when I have PCIe?" MIDI is a protocol and the support that's (apparently) missing is the ability to speak this protocol to devices which use it (such as drum sets) over a port which exists soley to transmit this protocol (the MIDI/Game port on your sound card). Turning a MIDI track into audio is a separate issue... if I happened to own a selection of drum machines and synthesizers and instead of being able to use them, I suddnely must use software synthesis output via the sound card, this would be a massive step down in quality regardless of it being 5.1 surround at 96MHz. The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to not support firewire... dropping support for an interface/protocol which a small set of people in a specific group use but laregly doesn't impart the average user. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jayton Garnett Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:00 am Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article > Why would I be bothered about MIDI? > I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround > Sound. 5.1 > surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it? > > Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content > will be > streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is. > How will your MIDI cope then? > > > mv /dev/midi* /dev/null ;-) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 19:22:54 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C061065679 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:22:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58C78FC14 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:22:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o1IJMq11097078; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:22:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Y+4ntwwGsuOO; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:22:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (ezekiel.daleco.biz [66.76.92.18]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1IJMj0G097074; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:22:46 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <4B7D9385.3040003@daleco.biz> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:22:45 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090929) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FBSD UG References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> <4B7D627B.1070800@sasktel.net> <86ljeqfpbx.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: jayton.garnett@gmail.com, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Midi X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:22:54 -0000 FBSD UG wrote: > On 18 feb 2010, at 19:00, Jayton Garnett wrote: > >> Why would I be bothered about MIDI? >> I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround Sound. 5.1 >> surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it? >> >> Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will be >> streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is. >> How will your MIDI cope then? > > midi has nothing to do with audio. > it's a protocol to automate keys and sliders, send tempo, > velocity, etc etc on synthesizers, filters or even light equipment. > > it's still a big part in audiostudios. > > Arno X-actly. When 5.1 Surround evolves into a protocol that will run my synths (any of which are worth more than any computer I have that runs FBSD ... ok, they *cost* more anyways), lemme know. Kevin Kinsey From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 19:24:10 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E14C106568F for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:24:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd32@freeode.co.uk) Received: from mail22.extendcp.co.uk (mail22.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.40.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7EC18FC16 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:24:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [78.33.177.2] (helo=asus) by mail22.extendcp.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.70) id 1NiByq-0002AF-56 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:24:08 +0000 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:24:08 +0000 From: John Murphy To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20100218192408.1ef036c7@asus> In-Reply-To: References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> <4B7D627B.1070800@sasktel.net> <86ljeqfpbx.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.2 (GTK+ 2.18.3; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Midi (was: LinuxBSDos.com article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:24:10 -0000 On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:37:36 +0100, FBSD UG wrote: > On 18 feb 2010, at 19:00, Jayton Garnett wrote: > > > Why would I be bothered about MIDI? > > I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround Sound. 5.1 > > surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it? > > > > Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will be > > streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is. > > How will your MIDI cope then? > > midi has nothing to do with audio. > it's a protocol to automate keys and sliders, send tempo, > velocity, etc etc on synthesizers, filters or even light equipment. > > it's still a big part in audiostudios. > > Arno Thanks Arno. And supported in FreeBSD since about '96 as far as I can tell. Shows how far behind the (freebsd) times I am. Nothing in the multi-media section of the handbook though and only a very old version of Rosegarden for instance. Better stick with Linux I guess... -- John. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 19:27:45 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DD4106566C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:27:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA43D8FC0C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:27:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C831FFC22; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:27:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 783D0844EE; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:27:44 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Stephen Hurd References: <610feea916977.4b7d2086@sasktel.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:27:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <610feea916977.4b7d2086@sasktel.net> (Stephen Hurd's message of "Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:12:06 -0800") Message-ID: <86pr429wen.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Jayton Garnett , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:27:46 -0000 Stephen Hurd writes: > The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to not > support firewire... Like Apple just did? :P DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 20:04:51 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5DD01065694 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:04:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hurds@sasktel.net) Received: from neutron.sasknet.sk.ca (neutron.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.20.180]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 756578FC13 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:04:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (neutron [127.0.0.1]) by neutron.sasknet.sk.ca (8.14.3/8.14.3) with SMTP id o1IK3Fom024538 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:04:50 -0600 Received: from bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (bgmpOMR1.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.72.22]) by neutron.sasknet.sk.ca with ESMTP id m1btws79h-1 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:04:50 -0600 Received: from sasktel.net ([192.168.234.97]) by bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (SaskTel eMessaging Service) with ESMTP id <0KY100H3HZS2K3C0@bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:04:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.234.25] (Forwarded-For: [216.31.211.11]) by cgmail1.sasknet.sk.ca (mshttpd); Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:04:50 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:04:50 -0800 From: Stephen Hurd To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-id: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.1 HotFix 0.20 (built Feb 27 2006) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=1.12.8161:2.4.5, 1.2.40, 4.0.166 definitions=2010-02-18_14:2010-02-06, 2010-02-18, 2010-02-18 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=5.0.0-0908210000 definitions=main-1002180154 Cc: Jayton Garnett , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:04:51 -0000 Oh=3F Firewire can=27t be used with new versions of OS/X=3F I thought = they simply wern=27t integrating it in their systems but that it could b= e added=2E ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav =3Cdes=40des=2Eno=3E Date=3A Thursday=2C February 18=2C 2010 11=3A27 am Subject=3A Re=3A LinuxBSDos=2Ecom article =3E Stephen Hurd =3Churds=40sasktel=2Enet=3E writes=3A =3E =3E The decision to not support it would be (was=3F) like deciding t= o not =3E =3E support firewire=2E=2E=2E =3E = =3E Like Apple just did=3F =3AP =3E = =3E DES =3E -- = =3E Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des=40des=2Eno =3E From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 18 23:04:28 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F13F710656C5 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:04:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron3-mailrl.sfsu.edu (iron3-mailrl.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08ED8FC1E for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:04:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAFNQfUuC1B9b/2dsb2JhbACbCHSxQAEJBYRIiFWCZIIDBIMVgR+BWYUU Received: from edg04.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.91]) by iron3.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2010 15:04:28 -0800 Received: from EHB04.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.28) by edg04.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.91) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.0.682.1; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:04:28 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.0.682.1; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:04:27 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2010021815042675-108 ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:04:26 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:04:26 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Jayton Garnett In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 02/18/2010 15:04:26, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 02/18/2010 15:04:27, Serialize complete at 02/18/2010 15:04:27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:04:29 -0000 On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, Jayton Garnett wrote: > That's a fair enough comment really. > To the average PC user, yes it is going to be the only one to compete with > Ubuntu - unsuccessfully. > > To the higher life forms - e.g. uber g33ks like us, no. Although when I > tried it out, I did quite enjoy the experience of PCBSD. > > The keywords there is 'desktop distributions'. > FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, and requires prior knowledge > of what and where things are to get FreeBSD into a workable desktop > environment, whereas PCBSD is more plug'n play and dare I say it 'just > works'. http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/pcbsd/p5060081.vhtml http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/pcbsd/p5060083.vhtml http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/bsdend/P5170124.vhtml http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/pcbsd/p506005801.vhtml http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/pcbsd/p506005901.vhtml > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 01:39:55 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B89106566C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:39:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from corky1951@comcast.net) Received: from qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC5E8FC15 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:39:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id jSWK1d00B0lTkoCAEdfwph; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:39:56 +0000 Received: from comcast.net ([98.203.142.76]) by omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id jdfu1d00L1f6R9u8QdfuAU; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:39:56 +0000 Received: by comcast.net (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:39:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:39:52 -0800 From: Charlie Kester To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20100219013952.GB60258@comcast.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> X-Mailer: Mutt 1.5.20 X-Composer: VIM 7.2 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:39:55 -0000 On Thu 18 Feb 2010 at 02:20:25 PST Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:06:32 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote: >> http://linuxbsdos.com/2010/02/18/pc-bsds-graphical-firewall-manager/ >> >> "PC-BSD is ... the only BSD-based distribution that's in a position to >> compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..." >> >> > >This is a pretty realistic way to put it, IMO. Note that, to PC-BSD's >credit, it is compares with the *best* Linux distributions. That's a >nice way of saying how cool PC-BSD is :-) Not taking anything away from PC-BSD, but the way the article put it, it sounded like a slam on FreeBSD (and OpenBSD and NetBSD too). From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 02:07:26 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F74C106568B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:07:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f204.google.com (mail-yw0-f204.google.com [209.85.211.204]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4B88FC14 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:07:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywh42 with SMTP id 42so1612212ywh.7 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:07:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mE9uSppIJaNYTr3pTe3/p/T0pg+FnjqH6ja2GPihDWo=; b=Sj+J0RZtFASrZdFYBN4XrUCChV363n5gUaMZb7FBw6sqFd9b8/flAb8IugbTbQRdMc YyvqaAsLvGdMnTGoSPsSgCNtmn2kMzDNhkE4eUaIsXbFTFs6yLnrMjsR2wJbfnuKYBJ1 RBkhObNabbMkJ6JQx5Td8aVTzMzevOaD7CCpo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Zl/BawxdtCEsVzASfVjNWUdHBbXu16svQM7GeVySlDultNbNzbpsIaS3fU9oFiK9hy K7ULPvEag+Jc87GbSsqlcVTPSnS0tPzzSjNw4gNgRVxvvkaTqvteKGxLujUxB7f4+vE6 J8+K9Q0N52HQ5HLYoEIW+NBNPfwq21jbPotSw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.48.18 with SMTP id v18mr674894ybv.103.1266543880659; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:44:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100219013952.GB60258@comcast.net> References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> <20100219013952.GB60258@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:44:40 -0800 Message-ID: <57d710001002181744td04d3b7m4d50fece3cb29bc0@mail.gmail.com> From: pete wright To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:07:26 -0000 On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Charlie Kester wro= te: > On Thu 18 Feb 2010 at 02:20:25 PST Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >> >> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:06:32 -0800, Charlie Kester >> wrote: >>> >>> http://linuxbsdos.com/2010/02/18/pc-bsds-graphical-firewall-manager/ >>> >>> "PC-BSD is ... the only BSD-based distribution that's in a position to >>> compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..." >>> >>> >> >> This is a pretty realistic way to put it, IMO. =A0Note that, to PC-BSD's >> credit, it is compares with the *best* Linux distributions. =A0That's a >> nice way of saying how cool PC-BSD is :-) > > Not taking anything away from PC-BSD, but the way the article put it, it > sounded like a slam on FreeBSD (and OpenBSD and NetBSD too). > hrm I took that as an indication of the good foundation that FreeBSD has laid for pc-bsd. The only thing that irked me was that they used the phrase "BSD-base distribution". *BSD is an OS, not a kernel with a bunch of stuff bolted on to it - heh. -pete --=20 pete wright www.nycbug.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 02:31:18 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1179F106566C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:31:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1-mailrl.sfsu.edu (iron1-mailrl.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E552C8FC0A for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:31:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEACyHfUuC1B9b/2dsb2JhbACbCHSyYQEJBYQ0iFWCZIIDBIMVgR+BWYUU Received: from edg04.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.91]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2010 18:31:17 -0800 Received: from EHB03.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) by edg04.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.91) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.0.682.1; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:31:16 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.0.682.1; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:31:16 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2010021818311567-110 ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:31:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:31:15 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: John Murphy In-Reply-To: <20100218125625.29910535@asus> Message-ID: References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 02/18/2010 18:31:15, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 02/18/2010 18:31:16, Serialize complete at 02/18/2010 18:31:16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:31:18 -0000 On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, John Murphy wrote: > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:12 +0000, Jayton Garnett wrote: > >> FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ... > > What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now? So it is no longer a What-ever-you-want-except-flash distro? > > -- > John. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 02:33:49 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0100106566B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1-mailrl.sfsu.edu (iron1-mailrl.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD20A8FC17 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:33:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEACyHfUuC1B9b/2dsb2JhbACbCHSyYQEJBYQ0iFWCZIIDBIMVgR+BWYUU Received: from edg04.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.91]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2010 18:33:49 -0800 Received: from EHB03.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) by edg04.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.91) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.0.682.1; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:33:48 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.0.682.1; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:33:48 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2010021818334680-111 ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:33:46 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:33:46 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Kevin Kinsey In-Reply-To: <4B7D6F82.4070402@daleco.biz> Message-ID: References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop> <4B7D1F0A.6010804@infracaninophile.co.uk> <4B7D6349.603@sasktel.net> <4B7D6F82.4070402@daleco.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 02/18/2010 18:33:46, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 02/18/2010 18:33:48, Serialize complete at 02/18/2010 18:33:49, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 02/18/2010 18:33:49 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Stephen Hurd Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:33:49 -0000 On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, Kevin Kinsey wrote: > Stephen Hurd wrote: >> Matthew Seaman wrote: >>> Saying "there's this really great firewall on PC-BSD, but the >>> configuration app doesn't let you use it very well" doesn't really >>> strike me as a positive statement about PC-BSD. Perhaps there's an "I >>> know what I'm doing" button somewhere yet to be mentioned which enables >>> managing more complicated stuff? >>> >> >> That's actually a very good comparison to the best Linux distros... the >> only tricks that PC-BSD missed are moving the configuration files into some >> unfindable place and re-generating them from a different file that the GUI >> generates in yet a a third place on every boot. Once the ability to tweak >> it if you know what you want and how to use the software is removed and >> then it will be the equal of the best of Linux distros. > > [Root@Tux][/proc]$man ls > no manual entry for 'ls' > > So, no "man" pages?? What brave soul will fight the demasculinization > of Beastie??! > > KDK > Yay! chat! _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 02:36:27 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82841065676 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:36:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron3-mailrl.sfsu.edu (iron3-mailrl.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58398FC17 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:36:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAIuBfUuC1B9b/2dsb2JhbACbCHSyYAEJBYQ2iFWCZIIDBIMVgR+BWYUU Received: from edg04.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.91]) by iron3.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2010 18:36:27 -0800 Received: from EHB03.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) by edg04.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.91) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.0.682.1; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:36:27 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.0.682.1; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:36:26 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2010021818362539-112 ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:36:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:36:24 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Jayton Garnett In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <20100218125625.29910535@asus> <4B7D627B.1070800@sasktel.net> <86ljeqfpbx.fsf@ds4.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 02/18/2010 18:36:25, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 02/18/2010 18:36:27, Serialize complete at 02/18/2010 18:36:27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:36:27 -0000 On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, Jayton Garnett wrote: > Why would I be bothered about MIDI? > I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround Sound. 5.1 > surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it? > > Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will be > streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is. > How will your MIDI cope then? > > > mv /dev/midi* /dev/null ;-) Ummm.. is it because they actually _create_ music by playing an instrument?? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 09:20:29 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8120F106566B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:20:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E038FC18 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1J9KBoB004275; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:20:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o1J9KBXJ004274; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:20:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:20:11 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <201002190920.o1J9KBXJ004274@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:20:27 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:20:29 -0000 Jayton Garnett wrote: > Why would I be bothered about MIDI? You wouldn't because you're obviously not a musician. > I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround Sound. 5.1 > surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it? What does that have to do with MIDI? I've got a MIDI keyboard that can be connected to a PC. It can be used with almost every OS on the planet, from ancient MS-DOS to Windows 7, of course OS X and Linux, NetBSD and OpenBSD, and even less common systems like OS/2, BeOS and its successor Haiku-OS. They all support MIDI interfaces out of the box. But -- FreeBSD does not. It's the only OS I cannot use my keyboard with. This is frustrating and annoying. > Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will be > streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is. > How will your MIDI cope then? > > mv /dev/midi* /dev/null ;-) Sounds like you don't know what MIDI really is, and how important it still is for musicians. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things." -- Doug Gwyn From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 09:30:45 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A1C106568F for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:30:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C52F8FC18 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:30:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E0D1FFC4D; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:30:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 114B1844CC; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:30:44 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Stephen Hurd References: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:30:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net> (Stephen Hurd's message of "Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:04:50 -0800") Message-ID: <86ocjlzi64.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Jayton Garnett , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:30:45 -0000 Stephen Hurd writes: > "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" writes: > > Stephen Hurd writes: > > > The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to > > > not support firewire... > > Like Apple just did? :P > Oh? Firewire can't be used with new versions of OS/X? Sure it can, but newer MacBooks don't have Firewire ports. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 09:38:09 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 493B81065670 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (gate6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8AF8FC16 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o1J9c26V095590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:02 GMT (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Message-ID: <4B7E5BFA.6020505@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:02 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman Organization: Infracaninophile User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?RGFnLUVybGluZyBTbcO4cmdyYXY=?= References: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net> <86ocjlzi64.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86ocjlzi64.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_ALL, SPF_FAIL autolearn=no version=3.3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.0 (2010-01-18) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Stephen Hurd , Jayton Garnett , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:09 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 19/02/2010 09:30, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Stephen Hurd writes: >> "Dag-Erling Smørgrav" writes: >>> Stephen Hurd writes: >>>> The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to >>>> not support firewire... >>> Like Apple just did? :P >> Oh? Firewire can't be used with new versions of OS/X? > > Sure it can, but newer MacBooks don't have Firewire ports. Huh? seedling:~:% ifconfig fw0 fw0: flags=8863 mtu 4078 lladdr d4:9a:20:ff:fe:d7:47:44 media: autoselect status: inactive supported media: autoselect MacBookPro, less than a month old... Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkt+W/oACgkQ8Mjk52CukIw05wCfc2t2/ikpshtZwQSwf2/PBVQD KAAAnjnUacTKUqaxL0QI/HiGbCLPLQ17 =0aYT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 09:38:20 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BA4F106568B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CAE8FC0A for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1J9c1Nk004909; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:38:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o1J9c1OE004908; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:38:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:38:01 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <201002190938.o1J9c1OE004908@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, kayve@sfsu.edu, John Murphy In-Reply-To: X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:38:18 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, kayve@sfsu.edu, John Murphy List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:20 -0000 KAYVEN RIESE wrote: > John Murphy wrote: > > Jayton Garnett wrote: > > > > > FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ... > > > > What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now? > > So it is no longer a What-ever-you-want-except-flash distro? Well, yes. Flash works fine. I'm using the flashplugin with linux-opera on 8-stable. (It's important to have the latest versions of all the software involved, and don't forget to mount linprocfs and the other prerequisites. There are instructions in the FreeBSD handbook.) Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "I invented Ctrl-Alt-Delete, but Bill Gates made it famous." -- David Bradley, original IBM PC design team From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 09:40:58 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13148106566C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:40:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f216.google.com (mail-bw0-f216.google.com [209.85.218.216]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984338FC08 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:40:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz8 with SMTP id 8so1096117bwz.3 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:40:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=XQyS9Zg+1eS+kbfW/8Bn7dcxmlq+ZBv3p19QyHaHu8I=; b=QtC+5iNbznxz9l64+AB/Z14h8SX076B1vg36fxwfHYEBPLV+Ih1PbA3OzvmwaWunh0 KiOAc8UhN0NF8iNCYcc8XnljWyF7vWH8LLxx+lDq1GK80baIklJl2C0xxY++gxzTHUw0 tgzqYZXnsiJCvX+2f1jMfJIRQCy8+LExEU59g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Z2LhnYSfwuOSbhch7ckU0/v6Sk3aozNtjSz23DemJF7zrbJbMP6S4EpU8nPj4oz7IT 9FFAx0ceeQiwS4IcN0FxzWS4YUR03Pmb8dAIUxqTm5AwLLd7k17ngqlb2tIf8J/onM5f P/+oBRBbPZSSQ3PKcyvU4om9TwpvEsbdHTkmA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.77 with SMTP id s13mr6763775bkd.42.1266572456496; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:40:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201002190920.o1J9KBXJ004274@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <201002190920.o1J9KBXJ004274@lurza.secnetix.de> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:40:55 +0000 Message-ID: From: Jayton Garnett To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:40:58 -0000 Well it was a tongue in cheek reply, relax people. Sheesh. *rolls eyes* If it caused you that much offence, I apologise. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 09:43:00 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C5A1065692 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:43:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (unsane-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f08:110::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410068FC1D for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:43:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vhoffman.lon.namesco.net (187.70-246-213.ippool.namesco.net [213.246.70.187]) (authenticated bits=0) by unsane.co.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1J9gvmB042335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:42:58 GMT (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <4B7E5D21.8070308@unsane.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:42:57 +0000 From: Vincent Hoffman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net> <86ocjlzi64.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B7E5BFA.6020505@infracaninophile.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4B7E5BFA.6020505@infracaninophile.co.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:43:00 -0000 On 19/02/2010 09:38, Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 19/02/2010 09:30, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > > Stephen Hurd writes: > >> "Dag-Erling Smørgrav" writes: > >>> Stephen Hurd writes: > >>>> The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to > >>>> not support firewire... > >>> Like Apple just did? :P > >> Oh? Firewire can't be used with new versions of OS/X? > > > Sure it can, but newer MacBooks don't have Firewire ports. > > Huh? > > seedling:~:% ifconfig fw0 > fw0: flags=8863 mtu 4078 > lladdr d4:9a:20:ff:fe:d7:47:44 > media: autoselect status: inactive > supported media: autoselect > > MacBookPro, less than a month old... > I believe they only dropped it on the macbooks (not the pro.) There was the usual hoo-ha back in 2008 http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9117339/Apple_users_rage_over_missing_FireWire http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/jobs-sort-of-speaks-out-on-macbook-dropping-firewire-20081017/ Vince > Cheers, > > Matthew > _______________________________________________ freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 10:47:48 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09AC41065670 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:47:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA7F8FC08 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:47:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7A41FFC4D; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:47:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 96B47844C2; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:47:46 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Matthew Seaman References: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net> <86ocjlzi64.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B7E5BFA.6020505@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:47:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4B7E5BFA.6020505@infracaninophile.co.uk> (Matthew Seaman's message of "Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:38:02 +0000") Message-ID: <86bpflzelp.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Stephen Hurd , Jayton Garnett , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:47:48 -0000 Matthew Seaman writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: > > Stephen Hurd writes: > > > Oh? Firewire can't be used with new versions of OS/X? > > Sure it can, but newer MacBooks don't have Firewire ports. > Huh? > > seedling:~:% ifconfig fw0 > fw0: flags=3D8863 mtu 4078 > lladdr d4:9a:20:ff:fe:d7:47:44 > media: autoselect status: inactive > supported media: autoselect > > MacBookPro, less than a month old... http://www.techspot.com/news/32102-Apple-drops-FireWire-on-some-MacBooks-in= cites-outrage.html (note: MacBook !=3D MacBookPro) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 15:11:04 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A4B106566C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:11:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s26.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s26.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.190.164]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 905ED8FC13 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W30 ([65.54.190.189]) by bay0-omc3-s26.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:11:01 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [67.204.27.21] From: Rick N To: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:11:01 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <20100218100632.GA60258@comcast.net> <87zl36etg6.fsf@kobe.laptop>, <4B7D1F0A.6010804@infracaninophile.co.uk>, <4B7D6349.603@sasktel.net> <4B7D6F82.4070402@daleco.biz>, MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2010 15:11:01.0948 (UTC) FILETIME=[BFBB17C0:01CAB175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: RE: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:11:04 -0000 =20 > Date: Thu=2C 18 Feb 2010 18:33:46 -0800 > From: kayve@sfsu.edu > To: kdk@daleco.biz > CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org=3B shurd@sasktel.net > Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article >=20 >=20 > On Thu=2C 18 Feb 2010=2C Kevin Kinsey wrote: > > Stephen Hurd wrote: > >> Matthew Seaman wrote: >=20 > >>> Saying "there's this really great firewall on PC-BSD=2C but the > >>> configuration app doesn't let you use it very well" doesn't really > >>> strike me as a positive statement about PC-BSD. Perhaps there's an "I > >>> know what I'm doing" button somewhere yet to be mentioned which enabl= es > >>> managing more complicated stuff? > >>>=20 > >>=20 > >> That's actually a very good comparison to the best Linux distros... th= e=20 > >> only tricks that PC-BSD missed are moving the configuration files into= some=20 > >> unfindable place and re-generating them from a different file that the= GUI=20 > >> generates in yet a a third place on every boot. Once the ability to tw= eak=20 > >> it if you know what you want and how to use the software is removed an= d=20 > >> then it will be the equal of the best of Linux distros. > > > > [Root@Tux][/proc]$man ls > > no manual entry for 'ls' ... --------------------------------- Yup=2C ("..... the configuration files into some=20 > >> unfindable place and re-generating them from a different file that the= GUI=20 > >> generates in yet a a third place on every boot.....") =20 I found that a bit tedious too=2C "locate" became the most used command wi= th every linux distro switch ? :) =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 15:42:20 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFFDA106566B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:42:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s22.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s22.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.190.160]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB17F8FC08 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:42:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W38 ([65.54.190.189]) by bay0-omc3-s22.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:42:20 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [67.204.27.21] From: Rick N To: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:42:20 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <201002190920.o1J9KBXJ004274@lurza.secnetix.de> References: , <201002190920.o1J9KBXJ004274@lurza.secnetix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2010 15:42:20.0587 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F7CA7B0:01CAB17A] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: RE: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:42:21 -0000 I'm picking up the M-Audio Audiophile 192=2C mostly becuase this sound car= d does work well with FreeBSD/OSS drivers=2C from what I've read. ? But mmm=2C unfortunately I didn't even know/remeber that FreeBSD has no mi= di at all ? It certainly won't prevent me from using *BSD anyways. Hopefully=2C midi may ba added in the future. =20 ahh well :( =20 =20 > Date: Fri=2C 19 Feb 2010 10:20:11 +0100 > From: olli@lurza.secnetix.de > To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > CC:=20 > Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article >=20 > Jayton Garnett wrote: > > Why would I be bothered about MIDI? >=20 > You wouldn't because you're obviously not a musician. >=20 > > I've got an on-board sound card that has=2C get this=2C 5.1 Surround So= und. 5.1 > > surround sound=2C can you ruddy well believe it? >=20 > What does that have to do with MIDI? >=20 > I've got a MIDI keyboard that can be connected to a PC. > It can be used with almost every OS on the planet=2C from > ancient MS-DOS to Windows 7=2C of course OS X and Linux=2C > NetBSD and OpenBSD=2C and even less common systems like > OS/2=2C BeOS and its successor Haiku-OS. They all support > MIDI interfaces out of the box. >=20 > But -- FreeBSD does not. It's the only OS I cannot use > my keyboard with. This is frustrating and annoying. >=20 > > Come on=2C it's 2010=2C not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will= be > > streamed online within the next 5=2C a lot of it already is. > > How will your MIDI cope then? > >=20 > > mv /dev/midi* /dev/null =3B-) >=20 > Sounds like you don't know what MIDI really is=2C and how > important it still is for musicians. >=20 > Best regards > Oliver >=20 > --=20 > Oliver Fromme=2C secnetix GmbH & Co. KG=2C Marktplatz 29=2C 85567 Grafing= b. M. > Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen=2C HRA 74606=2C Gesch=E4ftsfueh= rung: > secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH=2C Handelsregister: Registergericht M= =FCn- > chen=2C HRB 125758=2C Gesch=E4ftsf=FChrer: Maik Bachmann=2C Olaf Erb=2C R= alf Gebhart >=20 > FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen=2C -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bs= d >=20 > "UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things=2C > because that would also stop you from doing clever things." > -- Doug Gwyn > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" =20 _________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 17:27:21 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF4A106566B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:27:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from mx02.dls.net (mx02.dls.net [216.145.245.198]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 496CB8FC0C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:27:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [216.145.235.179] (helo=emailrob.com) by mx02.dls.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NiWdK-0002DR-4k; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:27:19 -0600 Message-ID: <4B7ECA05.8070502@emailrob.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:27:33 +0000 From: spellberg_robert User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fbsd_chat References: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net> <86ocjlzi64.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B7E5BFA.6020505@infracaninophile.co.uk> <86bpflzelp.fsf@ds4.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:27:21 -0000 i completely sympathize with all of those who mourn the loss of a favored, albeit esoteric, thingy. it is particularly sad when that thingy was wildly popular, back in the before_time. while not directly related to freebsd, at --this-- time, i observe that the, formerly universal, rs_232 serial_port is no_longer always included on motherboards. i am fond of the 908_series of embedded_controllers from freescale [ nee motorola ]. to program the flash_rom, i could spend several_hundred dollars on a dedicated appliance, which may_or_may_not program all of the devices which interest me. it may not support future devices; if it breaks, i can't fix it. on the other_hand, i can roll_my_own. this costs a_few_tens of dollars, applies to any device using this interface and i can fix it [ it should be noted that the things that i build tend to not_break, because i am the repair_man ]. the simplest approach requires an easily_programmed computer with a rs_232 port. the interface is a single pin. the pin used varies from part to part, which is why the appliance may not support all devices. i need half_duplex, 9600 bps, 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop_bit. converting half_duplex to full_duplex is easy. i need complementary 12_ to 15_volt supplies, which are downright cheap. this is child's_play. [ for those who find an 8_bit cpu to be interesting, a web_site page with a link to a pdf [ 2.6 mb ] of the data_sheet for a representative and particularly_popular member of the series, the 908qy4, may be found here: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=HC08Q&tab=Documentation_Tab&pspll=1&nodeId=01624684497663&SelectedAsset=Documentation&ProdMetaId=PID/DC/HC08Q&fromPSP=true&assetLockedForNavigation=true&componentId=2&leftNavCode=1&pageSize=25&Documentation=Documentation/00610Ksd1nd%60%60Data%20Sheets ] on the freebsd side, i need to dissect the man_pages so that i can control the 16550. the authors of these pages, while well_meaning, considered rs_232 as a means of talking to a modem [ a full_featured appliance ] or talking to a terminal [ also, a full_featured appliance ]. i found myself reading between the lines, frequently. rs_232 works very well for short messages, over short distances, in environments of up_to_moderate noise, using inexpensive components. for these reasons, it --will-- be made illegal; de_facto, if not de_jure. it may be several years [ ten ? ], but, sooner_or_later, freebsd will drop support for and/or remove the capability of implementing, what are coming to be called, the "legacy" serial and parallel ports, because the general_public will not be using them. i will mourn this, but, i will understand, because freebsd_people are, statistically, software_people, not hardware_people. i will find a work_around, either by implementing the new interface or by converting between new and old. as long as i have six addressable bits whose level i can flip individually [ 3 out and 3 in ], i can rig a full_duplex link that runs as fast as the slower end_point hardware. apparently [ from what i read ], statistically, freebsd_people are not musicians, either. neither am i; although i --did-- take violin lessons as a youngster. so, make mine bob wills or jascha heifetx, please. rob From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 19:23:52 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06141106568D for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:23:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.190.29]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26C28FC08 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:23:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W45 ([65.54.190.61]) by bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:23:51 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [67.204.27.21] From: Rick N To: , Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:23:51 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4B7ECA05.8070502@emailrob.com> References: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net>,<86ocjlzi64.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B7E5BFA.6020505@infracaninophile.co.uk>, <86bpflzelp.fsf@ds4.des.no>, <4B7ECA05.8070502@emailrob.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2010 19:23:51.0930 (UTC) FILETIME=[11BEA5A0:01CAB199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: RE: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:23:52 -0000 > Date: Fri=2C 19 Feb 2010 17:27:33 +0000 > From: emailrob@emailrob.com > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article >=20 > i completely sympathize with all of those who mourn the loss of a favored= =2C albeit esoteric=2C thingy. > it is particularly sad when that thingy was wildly popular=2C back in the= before_time. >=20 > while not directly related to freebsd=2C at --this-- time=2C > i observe that the=2C formerly universal=2C rs_232 serial_port is no_l= onger always included on motherboards. >=20 > i am fond of the 908_series of embedded_controllers from freescale [ nee = motorola ]. > to program the flash_rom=2C > i could spend several_hundred dollars on a dedicated appliance=2C > which may_or_may_not program all of the devices which interest me. > it may not support future devices=3B if it breaks=2C i can't fix it. >=20 > on the other_hand=2C i can roll_my_own. > this costs a_few_tens of dollars=2C applies to any device using this inte= rface and i can fix it > [ it should be noted that the things that i build tend to not_break=2C= because i am the repair_man ]. > the simplest approach requires an easily_programmed computer with a rs_23= 2 port. >=20 > the interface is a single pin. > the pin used varies from part to part=2C which is why the appliance may n= ot support all devices. > i need half_duplex=2C 9600 bps=2C 8 bits=2C no parity=2C 1 stop_bit. > converting half_duplex to full_duplex is easy. > i need complementary 12_ to 15_volt supplies=2C which are downright cheap= . > this is child's_play. >=20 > [ for those who find an 8_bit cpu to be interesting=2C > a web_site page with a link to a pdf [ 2.6 mb ] of the data_sheet fo= r > a representative and particularly_popular member of the series=2C th= e 908qy4=2C > may be found here: >=20 > http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code= =3DHC08Q&tab=3DDocumentation_Tab&pspll=3D1&nodeId=3D01624684497663&Selected= Asset=3DDocumentation&ProdMetaId=3DPID/DC/HC08Q&fromPSP=3Dtrue&assetLockedF= orNavigation=3Dtrue&componentId=3D2&leftNavCode=3D1&pageSize=3D25&Documenta= tion=3DDocumentation/00610Ksd1nd%60%60Data%20Sheets >=20 > ] >=20 > on the freebsd side=2C i need to dissect the man_pages so that i can cont= rol the 16550. > the authors of these pages=2C while well_meaning=2C considered rs_232 as = a means of > talking to a modem [ a full_featured appliance ] or > talking to a terminal [ also=2C a full_featured appliance ]. > i found myself reading between the lines=2C frequently. >=20 > rs_232 works very well > for short messages=2C > over short distances=2C > in environments of up_to_moderate noise=2C > using inexpensive components. > for these reasons=2C it --will-- be made illegal=3B de_facto=2C if not de= _jure. >=20 > it may be several years [ ten ? ]=2C but=2C sooner_or_later=2C > freebsd will drop support for and/or remove the capability of implemen= ting=2C > what are coming to be called=2C the "legacy" serial and parallel ports= =2C > because the general_public will not be using them. > i will mourn this=2C but=2C i will understand=2C because > freebsd_people are=2C statistically=2C software_people=2C not hardware= _people. > i will find a work_around=2C > either by implementing the new interface or by converting between new = and old. > as long as i have six addressable bits whose level i can flip individuall= y [ 3 out and 3 in ]=2C > i can rig a full_duplex link that runs as fast as the slower end_point= hardware. >=20 > apparently [ from what i read ]=2C statistically=2C freebsd_people are no= t musicians=2C either. > neither am i=3B although i --did-- take violin lessons as a youngster. > so=2C make mine bob wills or jascha heifetx=2C please. >=20 > rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ya=2C I agree=2C FreeBSD has always been heavy in Software Development. ma= ny teeth have been sharpened with it for the best products=2C aka the new A= pple's. Its too bad 'cause obviously=2C hardware development in tandem with FreeBS= D would...oops=2C well=2C... its commercially already here=2C in some deriv= ative=2C called MacOS "X" (both HW and SW)-and that in itself is a testamen= t to the power of BSD (and irs Licensing scheme) as well?=20 No market=2C then not much investment money from the rest of the hardware = industry=2C unfortunatley. an that is too bad. so Kudos to the folks at PC-BSD for keeping FreeBSD alive 'n well for all = the NOT so "uber-G33ks" =3B) =20 _________________________________________________________________ Check your Hotmail from your phone. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9708121= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 19 20:02:59 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6EF91065676 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:02:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from corky1951@comcast.net) Received: from qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847D88FC08 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:02:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.19]) by qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id joYq1d0010QuhwU53w2CLv; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:02:12 +0000 Received: from comcast.net ([98.203.142.76]) by omta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id jw2w1d00E1f6R9u3Nw2xvk; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:02:58 +0000 Received: by comcast.net (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:02:54 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:02:54 -0800 From: Charlie Kester To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20100219200254.GC60258@comcast.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <41051be3118c6.4b7d2ce2@sasktel.net> <86ocjlzi64.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B7E5BFA.6020505@infracaninophile.co.uk> <86bpflzelp.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B7ECA05.8070502@emailrob.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B7ECA05.8070502@emailrob.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 1.5.20 X-Composer: VIM 7.2 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:02:59 -0000 On Fri 19 Feb 2010 at 09:27:33 PST spellberg_robert wrote: >apparently [ from what i read ], statistically, freebsd_people are not >musicians, either. neither am i; although i --did-- take violin >lessons as a youngster. so, make mine bob wills or jascha heifetx, >please. Heh, Bob Wills is still the king. Aaaah-ha!