From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 00:09:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAAC014B4146; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:09:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74F5E7473C; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:09:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id nY0JgfKSvMRX3nY0KgKSlg; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:08:53 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TL87tGta c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=ymjG5ZiqAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=AepeMRH6YHPCBhw5NfYA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=UJ0tAi3fqDAA:10 a=9NY4Jsdw3mG8vwb630s1:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A2AC866; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:09:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0R08ohh078601; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:08:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x0R08oGN078598; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:08:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201901270008.x0R08oGN078598@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: "Simon J. Gerraty" cc: Cy Schubert , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base In-Reply-To: Message from "Simon J. Gerraty" of "Sat, 26 Jan 2019 15:30:35 -0800." <79948.1548545435@kaos.jnpr.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:08:50 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfE+XH9PNVU+YqNZs3xxvHzeZZRFixPxTW97FcnzNXiSQmwbbaQlISPljyJ0JiUuGDSWV9Iyrekvx5j7isE5pvZ9bqK+kd01VPSIW2KdoU76StMRZ3c/9 df/JMQArOlB68EEZ377ZtwbM2QEdNpnya+ij3d+HEQZFTPBAOvC3WETiw8mJa5KELk2uqC+J8zLwg/fF9IKt/y+nZX/IlG2yfzC8+8abqdVf45KWcpTtItjz ilsCJ9ErTcv0LNywfPwNJllf1+7DAczWA5H29psMi10= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 74F5E7473C X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.55 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.87)[ip: (-4.98), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.42), asn: 6327(-1.87), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.966,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[12.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:09:03 -0000 In message <79948.1548545435@kaos.jnpr.net>, "Simon J. Gerraty" writes: > Cy Schubert wrote: > > Why not ksh93 instead? It is the original and authoritative Korn > > shell. EPL i > > Sure but my experience was (back in maybe 2000 or there abouts) it was lame > compared to pdksh ;-) emacs mode as crude, no interactive history > search. It was closed source then. AT&T and Sun had no interest in spending salaried time on a shell but times have now changed and ksh is open source. Check out the ksh93-devel port. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 00:19:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F2014B453D; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:19:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ED7174BBD; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:19:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x0R0JpAe096104; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:19:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x0R0JpF4096103; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:19:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201901270019.x0R0JpF4096103@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base In-Reply-To: <32153.1548546852@kaos.jnpr.net> To: "Simon J. Gerraty" Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:19:51 -0800 (PST) CC: Cy Schubert , arch@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5ED7174BBD X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.969,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:19:56 -0000 > Cy Schubert wrote: > > Interactively ksh93's command completion listing looks unconventional > > but it functions the same. > > > > However programmatically it's the standard. Large commercial vendors, > > like Oracle, still require ksh for its array handling among other > > things. > > pdksh (hence I assume mksh) has had array support for ages. > The only thing I ever found it useful for was cd history, > and I actually have an implementation of that for sh that does not need > arrays. > > > It has that advantage. For embedded this is an advantage. However if > > embedded is using ksh as a scripting language mksh and pdksh aren't > > As noted earlier I've used [pd]ksh as shell for 30 years. > I do *not* write ksh scripts (except for .kshrc etc ;-) > > The beauty of ksh as interactive shell is it's (mostly) compatability > with /bin/sh - which scripts should be written in. > > Now on some systems (HPUX springs to mind ;-) /bin/sh is so bad that > one has to use ksh to run scripts - but they are still sh scripts. Doesnt pdksh have a "sh" compatible mode iirc when you invoke it via a path of sh it behaves as a traditional bourne shell, also if IIRC Openbsd is doing just that, /bin/sh -> /bin/pdksh (hard link) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 00:44:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352AE14B5225; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:44:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2753B75A8B; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:44:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id nYYsgfamzMRX3nYYugKY7C; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:44:36 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TL87tGta c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=ymjG5ZiqAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=qSb1u5CYajfrWvpzu8sA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=UJ0tAi3fqDAA:10 a=9NY4Jsdw3mG8vwb630s1:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D8BF9A0; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0R0iYbd083453; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x0R0iXvj083450; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201901270044.x0R0iXvj083450@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: "Simon J. Gerraty" cc: Cy Schubert , Baptiste Daroussin , arch@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base In-Reply-To: Message from "Simon J. Gerraty" of "Sat, 26 Jan 2019 15:54:12 -0800." <32153.1548546852@kaos.jnpr.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:33 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJVV9Vt6BYjNSksnQjOXgB9SL7Z5yy6D2+WU5JlONKkEBT+KPmwCeq+wyoYbOHRRd6N3hHAcDgSRVDfyFa9A0XNvgSf8aHiNQkKxcbp1jGkh6O+lRMPX X3VhX1iDDFKNmUyYebfH25cp2IgiLJ/Xf04mIRvvqNLr/wxiD1vPSHTeBu+dSt4ApLgB6di+4Q7nqNxvNqrVP1nymB8g1gqSFp0z95YIJZQfzfJ5vKCWH5Xg bPl0pSgigTVIsHIxjtJFPEEsKrT6ODAgcs8FtWiIn7A= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2753B75A8B X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.46 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.977,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.78)[ip: (-4.52), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.41), asn: 6327(-1.86), country: CA(-0.09)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[9.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:44:44 -0000 In message <32153.1548546852@kaos.jnpr.net>, "Simon J. Gerraty" writes: > Cy Schubert wrote: > > Interactively ksh93's command completion listing looks unconventional > > but it functions the same. > > > > However programmatically it's the standard. Large commercial vendors, > > like Oracle, still require ksh for its array handling among other > > things. > > pdksh (hence I assume mksh) has had array support for ages. > The only thing I ever found it useful for was cd history, > and I actually have an implementation of that for sh that does not need > arrays. IIRC it's not compatible. > > > It has that advantage. For embedded this is an advantage. However if > > embedded is using ksh as a scripting language mksh and pdksh aren't > > As noted earlier I've used [pd]ksh as shell for 30 years. > I do *not* write ksh scripts (except for .kshrc etc ;-) > > The beauty of ksh as interactive shell is it's (mostly) compatability > with /bin/sh - which scripts should be written in. Looking at ksh93-devel sources there is a SHOPT_BASH option, which emulates a Bash shell. The emulation is not complete though. 14-06-02 +When compiled with the SHOPT_BASH and run with the name bash, the shell now uses dynamic scoping for name() and function name. In addition the builtins declare and local are supported. The SHOPT_BASH option is on by default in the Makefile. More work remains with the bash compatibility option. > > Now on some systems (HPUX springs to mind ;-) /bin/sh is so bad that > one has to use ksh to run scripts - but they are still sh scripts. IMO HP/UX is as good as dead. I've never had anything good to say about HP/UX. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 00:44:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EBE814B5240; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:44:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sjg@juniper.net) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.pphosted.com", Issuer "Thawte RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CDA875AA2; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sjg@juniper.net) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108163.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x0R0iq7E023723; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:52 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=to : cc : subject : in-reply-to : references : from : mime-version : content-type : content-id : date : message-id; s=PPS1017; bh=UNT1wrximaT9Ge5JgtNzUbd9KwmOofQ3qmoUdNm4mw8=; b=WXdFkg0e0A81RbUJUASssYc/l+UkTnSkMamtIZc0B5l9HQ2neAlWftUDheKY2e1qfHBH Q7Uj7OX71jTeehU/T5cHG1vkP884qtPsVO1P8xqVXIgUkuhCBgWFs8P/0UoY2hVAr3NX cHJEmW7mumrLDvJtnyF38TPI09pyGEZnoOLYsqN5u9/1KePNlkGoIMqJHKtUW7XbZoSb I8ywnvBdYtvof0mcVbNcINKxVXs1l4BAg9sGBjAV9d+WK+GBYUaCjD8rn5EplcNBNgLB 0sffLqsyM1Px7q7bYCsPljjOFak7uPg1GG3PS+Kk6VlrOVqZu8o8eayorLZLNISKzGnP 5A== Received: from nam01-sn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam01lp2053.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.32.53]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2q8knugt8a-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:52 -0800 Received: from CO2PR05CA0006.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:102:2::16) by BLUPR05MB482.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:877::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.1580.12; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:44:48 +0000 Received: from DM3NAM05FT023.eop-nam05.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:f400:7e51::201) by CO2PR05CA0006.outlook.office365.com (2603:10b6:102:2::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1558.9 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:44:48 +0000 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.13 as permitted sender) Received: from P-EXFEND-EQX-02.jnpr.net (66.129.239.13) by DM3NAM05FT023.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.98.133) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA) id 15.20.1580.2 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:44:47 +0000 Received: from P-EXBEND-EQX-01.jnpr.net (10.104.8.52) by P-EXFEND-EQX-02.jnpr.net (10.104.8.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.847.32; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:46 -0800 Received: from p-mailhub01.juniper.net (10.104.20.6) by P-EXBEND-EQX-01.jnpr.net (10.104.8.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1367.3 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:46 -0800 Received: from kaos.jnpr.net (kaos.jnpr.net [172.23.50.162]) by p-mailhub01.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id x0R0ik7J025204; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:46 -0800 (envelope-from sjg@juniper.net) Received: by kaos.jnpr.net (Postfix, from userid 1377) id 293486B4AB; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from kaos.jnpr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kaos.jnpr.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FE96B4AA; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:44:46 -0800 (PST) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" CC: Cy Schubert , , "Baptiste Daroussin" , , Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base In-Reply-To: <201901270019.x0R0JpF4096103@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> References: <201901270019.x0R0JpF4096103@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Comments: In-reply-to: "Rodney W. Grimes" message dated "Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:19:51 -0800." From: "Simon J. 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Grimes wrote: > > Now on some systems (HPUX springs to mind ;-) /bin/sh is so bad that > > one has to use ksh to run scripts - but they are still sh scripts. > > Doesnt pdksh have a "sh" compatible mode iirc when you > invoke it via a path of sh it behaves as a traditional > bourne shell, also if IIRC Openbsd is doing just that, > /bin/sh -> /bin/pdksh (hard link) It may - I've never tried. I use ksh as an interactive shell, pdksh if no native ksh. I use sh for scripts and back when I was exposed to customers using HP-UX and the like, they (for good reason) didn't want anyone tampering with /bin/sh --sjg From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 00:51:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D6814B5574 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:51:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A9B75FBD for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:51:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D96DD14B5572; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:51:02 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D7F14B5571; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:51:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5A7175FB8; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:51:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id nYf4gfdjcMRX3nYf6gKZ0U; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:51:00 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TL87tGta c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=iKhvJSA4AAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=2xZF7mUm-BpYC6RCPDYA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=UJ0tAi3fqDAA:10 a=odh9cflL3HIXMm4fY7Wr:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52E789E4; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0R0owfM087683; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:50:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x0R0owQx087680; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:50:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201901270050.x0R0owQx087680@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: "Simon J. Gerraty" , Cy Schubert , arch@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base In-Reply-To: Message from "Rodney W. Grimes" of "Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:19:51 -0800." <201901270019.x0R0JpF4096103@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:50:58 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJyLttC92cLkOIRxos7filqR7INJgM6r4tmISkHy33WYa+cUyRRdlNrhJNLGRlFL1TUr50K27pcQU31pVa5kFcdB7YALS3Kgn8T35kuK1DfhxAq/lA1z aCbaOsz/NPXshNWkpyhAQcxKJA6fQX5W6Socg51yUv9JWMaRqbFjijAykQFkbqfVOvPF5aRCoALh0iPzVEdLoM6kHEnCMgVByWvY62C6mA19wFjzU5IXPQkD PCxidu95LVLiRiBir8KfOdtYvtnUbyjCS2pBGMlxSUhgahXHqpdEBnjDVG4wtkq3F05Cbz10CWzWMDS3JuNPVQ== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E5A7175FB8 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[9.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.975,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.76)[ip: (-4.43), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.40), asn: 6327(-1.86), country: CA(-0.09)]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:51:03 -0000 In message <201901270019.x0R0JpF4096103@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>, "Rodney W. Gri mes" writes: > > Cy Schubert wrote: > > > Interactively ksh93's command completion listing looks unconventional > > > but it functions the same. > > > > > > However programmatically it's the standard. Large commercial vendors, > > > like Oracle, still require ksh for its array handling among other > > > things. > > > > pdksh (hence I assume mksh) has had array support for ages. > > The only thing I ever found it useful for was cd history, > > and I actually have an implementation of that for sh that does not need > > arrays. > > > > > It has that advantage. For embedded this is an advantage. However if > > > embedded is using ksh as a scripting language mksh and pdksh aren't > > > > As noted earlier I've used [pd]ksh as shell for 30 years. > > I do *not* write ksh scripts (except for .kshrc etc ;-) > > > > The beauty of ksh as interactive shell is it's (mostly) compatability > > with /bin/sh - which scripts should be written in. > > > > Now on some systems (HPUX springs to mind ;-) /bin/sh is so bad that > > one has to use ksh to run scripts - but they are still sh scripts. > > Doesnt pdksh have a "sh" compatible mode iirc when you > invoke it via a path of sh it behaves as a traditional > bourne shell, also if IIRC Openbsd is doing just that, > /bin/sh -> /bin/pdksh (hard link) IIRC ksh had an option that allowed it to be built as /bin/sh but I can't find the option any more. Maybe I was mistaken. The current ksh93 in ksh93-devel has bash support though. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 03:52:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B0914BD881 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 03:52:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: from hergotha.csail.mit.edu (tunnel82308-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:ccb::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AC9F851F4 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 03:52:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: from hergotha.csail.mit.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hergotha.csail.mit.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0R3q8g6058034; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:52:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by hergotha.csail.mit.edu (8.15.2/8.14.4/Submit) id x0R3q7r1058033; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:52:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:52:07 -0500 (EST) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <201901270352.x0R3q7r1058033@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> To: freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base References: <201901270019.x0R0JpF4096103@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <32153.1548546852@kaos.jnpr.net> Organization: none Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (hergotha.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:52:10 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=disabled version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hergotha.csail.mit.edu X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 03:52:13 -0000 In article <201901270019.x0R0JpF4096103@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> you write: >Doesnt pdksh have a "sh" compatible mode iirc when you >invoke it via a path of sh it behaves as a traditional >bourne shell, also if IIRC Openbsd is doing just that, >/bin/sh -> /bin/pdksh (hard link) POSIX specifies the shell to be ksh88 (with some modifications for locale support). ksh93 has some different behavior from ksh88, but most (not all) of the ways in which it differs are compatible extensions to the POSIX shell. (The reason it's still called ksh93 today has to do with internal corporate legal bureaucracy that made it easier to release "updates" than a new "version".) Both the Almquist shell (which is the ancestor of our /bin/sh) and bash were aligned with the POSIX specification as it evolved, and the current /bin/sh and bash maintainers continue to participate in the Austin Group process for shell standardization. (Robert Elz, who maintain's NetBSD's version of the Almquist shell, also participates, as do the author of mksh and the author of the portable shell scripting library modernish. David Korn used to participate but has not been heard from in several years.) -GAWollman From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 13:35:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 761EA14ABE8D for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:35:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e.0x20.net) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5902681B2 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:35:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e.0x20.net) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 9984514ABE86; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:35:31 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8838A14ABE85 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:35:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e.0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [46.251.251.56]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "0x20.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B7BE681AD; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:35:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e.0x20.net) Received: from e.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [46.251.251.56]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34516A57FC; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:34:04 +0100 (CET) Received: (from lars@localhost) by e.0x20.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x0RDY4wB088945; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:34:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from lars) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:34:04 +0100 From: Lars Engels To: "Simon J. Gerraty" Cc: Gleb Popov , arch@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base Message-ID: <20190127133403.GK1267@e.0x20.net> References: <20190125165751.kpcjjncmf7j7maxd@ivaldir.net> <96231.1548545194@kaos.jnpr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <96231.1548545194@kaos.jnpr.net> X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 8.0 User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.1 (2018-12-01) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4B7BE681AD X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.96 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.963,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:35:32 -0000 On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 03:26:34PM -0800, Simon J. Gerraty wrote: > Gleb Popov wrote: > > > Are there FreeBSD users that are used to bash? If not, this proposal looks > > ksh not bash. > > I use bash when forced to (due to lack of ksh) > I haven't used csh since '89 and I've been using BSD since '93 > > bapt sounds like mksh is derrived from pdksh, and looks well supported. mksh is a fork of OpenBSD's pdksh. It was forked when a former OpenBSD developer forked MirBSD from OpenBSD and is its standard shell. mksh is also the default shell on Android. 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TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; IP_SCORE(-1.01)[ipnet: 40.64.0.0/10(-2.67), asn: 8075(-2.28), country: US(-0.07)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 17:47:59 -0000 Hello, Hope you're having a great day! I just wanted to know if you're looking to acquire Cisco Users Contact List= for your marketing efforts? Information Field: Names, Title, Email, Phone, Company Name, Company URL, C= ompany physical address, SIC Code, Industry and Company Size (Revenue and E= mployee). Kindly review and let me know of your target interest so that I can get bac= k to you with the exact counts and sample file. Do let me know if you have any questions for me. Regards, Meghan Hudson Database Executive If you do not wish to receive these emails. Please respond Exit.