From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Feb 24 04:44:06 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703AE1511981 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 04:44:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B63A859A1 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 04:44:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 5B071151197F; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 04:44:05 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 460F5151197E; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 04:44:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from mail01.asahi-net.or.jp (mail01.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.55.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1CCD859A0; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 04:44:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from rv515.advok.com (pool-72-76-119-135.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [72.76.119.135]) (Authenticated sender: NR2Y-OOT) by mail01.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6AC8E10AB3A; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 13:43:59 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 23:43:51 -0500 From: Yoshihiro Ota To: Greg V Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-Id: <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> References: <20190223003126.4aec5a01b77ec9bf9ea0992a@j.email.ne.jp> <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i386-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B1CCD859A0 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.85 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.85)[-0.854,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 04:44:06 -0000 On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 15:55:57 +0300 Greg V wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 8:31 AM, Yoshihiro Ota > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > How does this impact VMWare users? > > I couldn't find much of documents. > > > > I run few FreeBSD versions on MacBook VMWare. > > > > Do we have a different driver for VMWare or go by MacBook's? > > > > I looked at dmesg of another laptop and that reports "Radeon". > > However, I don't find any "drm" in FreeBSD VMWare dmesg at all. > > I'm not sure which driver FreeBSD has been picking up. > > Hi, looks like you have not been using *any* GPU driver at all, just a > basic framebuffer (efifb or vga) and software rendering. > > Only the new drm-kmod includes vmwgfx, which should bring you GPU > support :) https://twitter.com/johalun/status/1056549585106227201 > I also got some private emails, too. Thanks for info. I gave up VMWare for this one and tried on 3 physical machines. All 3 machines I tried this time worked okay with ports drivers. I also found that running kldstat was the easiest way to find which of driver to use instead of dmesg. Hiro From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Feb 24 17:24:29 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872011504969 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:24:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B856575826 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:24:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 76DB71504967; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:24:28 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546741504965 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:24:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCA3475825 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:24:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id d2so7959873qti.11 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 09:24:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wxSrLLp3VpjfGIpB9XIaQCtjTeebiHyK1C5/GY+QWuQ=; b=kxGoMalICiRkFoRME1004Y5bB9t7AoX1fWExTv9eriv2VKjL4PExv4p/+0eH42Pvio CsyQCek4CclUo2xeZwkMJrmDH7Gg4qoLqN3xlvOQ2Rv83+Vgjna82PR3FD4uJvkCmlzy uaYuvbzBnWHLFUa0JbUye01qRxZo0tej4IjnaXs9m4gtCy0qdhYBib8sXiklCb48B2Es SIX8ut/4uqMyrZWGd15CQoRVVQ6VnTnqu5CUE2bOdiC7pnJS9d7KxZ6ovzvNAo0V4Aby A9EpABHAuXLJQkKfM0NJ4XqaAdwBGRDWVFYiJIoGriLyZnrpZPnByZ8ptzcKcgipeKI2 H04A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wxSrLLp3VpjfGIpB9XIaQCtjTeebiHyK1C5/GY+QWuQ=; b=L9J14KcicBpvlNt7IKFCOx32ZyGHJnJq/GX/HjMSoGrXnaN0f/ANGcUrgMAIMMzrZw 0LtWGIjlNf38zYglhzHUI7zBXE8T9aRQwrBrCl3KBoifj/SVU/+Z3bU0YQVY6zBEDRru wm/fPihul5yEQR/54NYVyL8uelufhBagffVjv1Pp0SHLM4gbkuvATQy77+vTh4Nw4y+u qTRLI+8P6SOaGqYMghyQwQzsyWa8Wko/U7Y2OPmwaC/1DpJiAam6n5K/aNlGP3/7qEWa qlsDU6GbiaZ30KV4WDmC4rGnDOhEXJQtAeFOLZSosXTF08pOM9bkg0w1iNjnmiBRM6+I 8wpg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuarjRg8JuBTlyyfqfg4pBQw5zgxVkH1Q3w58ADNSZkBu7x6CjuT cw4RpxOUrlE71qWA42NIe8PtlkHSicCBQoL8nV11YHnJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbxNtto0v/15PNK+HlmPQfe4YXxR6hZzoV13s/RskYTcSlEwuKIynjI2FDeBqcx4j2LDPGIh1Rpcq4QwAPLqt8= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9ba7:: with SMTP id o39mr5196231qve.153.1551029067273; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 09:24:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190223003126.4aec5a01b77ec9bf9ea0992a@j.email.ne.jp> <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 10:24:15 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: Yoshihiro Ota Cc: greg@unrelenting.technology, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CCA3475825 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.96 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.958,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:24:29 -0000 On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 3:31 AM Yoshihiro Ota wrote: > On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 15:55:57 +0300 > Greg V wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 8:31 AM, Yoshihiro Ota > > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > How does this impact VMWare users? > > > I couldn't find much of documents. > > > > > > I run few FreeBSD versions on MacBook VMWare. > > > > > > Do we have a different driver for VMWare or go by MacBook's? > > > > > > I looked at dmesg of another laptop and that reports "Radeon". > > > However, I don't find any "drm" in FreeBSD VMWare dmesg at all. > > > I'm not sure which driver FreeBSD has been picking up. > > > > Hi, looks like you have not been using *any* GPU driver at all, just a > > basic framebuffer (efifb or vga) and software rendering. > > > > Only the new drm-kmod includes vmwgfx, which should bring you GPU > > support :) https://twitter.com/johalun/status/1056549585106227201 > > > > I also got some private emails, too. > Thanks for info. > > I gave up VMWare for this one and tried on 3 physical machines. > All 3 machines I tried this time worked okay with ports drivers. > Thank you for your testing Hirosan. I also found that running kldstat was the easiest way to find which of > driver to use instead of dmesg. > Is this a suggestion for changing the drm-kmod package output? Or just a helpful hint for others? Tanks again. Warner Hiro > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-x11@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-x11-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 05:42:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B231519D29 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:42:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E55477B8F for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:42:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id E1BF31519D19; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:42:47 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF5571519D18; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:42:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from mail03.asahi-net.or.jp (mail03.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.55.15]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 842D977B79; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:42:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from rv515.advok.com (pool-72-76-119-135.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [72.76.119.135]) (Authenticated sender: NR2Y-OOT) by mail03.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 183B330305; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:42:31 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 00:42:20 -0500 From: Yoshihiro Ota To: Warner Losh Cc: ota@j.email.ne.jp, greg@unrelenting.technology, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-Id: <20190228004220.fb3ed982fa8a34252ec19bb5@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20190223003126.4aec5a01b77ec9bf9ea0992a@j.email.ne.jp> <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i386-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 842D977B79 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ota@j.email.ne.jp designates 202.224.55.15 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ota@j.email.ne.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.39 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.89)[-0.886,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:202.224.55.0/24]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[email.ne.jp]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.977,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.30)[0.303,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[sbmx.asahi-net.or.jp]; IP_SCORE(-0.02)[country: JP(-0.08)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[15.55.224.202.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4685, ipnet:202.224.32.0/19, country:JP]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[135.119.76.72.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:42:48 -0000 On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 10:24:15 -0700 Warner Losh wrote: > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 3:31 AM Yoshihiro Ota wrote: > > I also found that running kldstat was the easiest way to find which of > > driver to use instead of dmesg. > > > > Is this a suggestion for changing the drm-kmod package output? Or just a > helpful hint for others? > > Tanks again. > > Warner This is a helpful hint for others and a suggestion to update documents. I had read https://www.freebsd.org/releases/12.0R/relnotes.html#hardware-graphics and https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics before I started. I had 4 old laptops and 1 vmawre and I didn't remember which machine uses which CPU :) If the doc can mention to check kldstat output and go to corresponding section, that will make steps easier. I converted to the port based driver for 4 psychical machines and 1 vmware machine (although vmware do not use neither of driver.) All of them run 12.0-RELEASE. All of them start X and work fine. I will likely get to 13-CURRENT a lot later as I ran 13-CURRENT without X and in vmware most of times. Hiro From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 19:11:40 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A471513DCD; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:11:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C185582ADD; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:11:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id zR5bgDsGCqO6dzR5dgdOC5; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 12:11:31 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=B/XHL9lM c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=CFTnQlWoA9kA:10 a=7Qk2ozbKAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=icmbgQcpaS0HF2OAkFAA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=u1iU4zoZatoA:10 a=jj-u_ENxJDUA:10 a=1lyxoWkJIXJV6VJUPhuM:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from [IPv6:2605:8d80:402:e6fa:7662:4608:c1c9:df9c] (unknown [72.143.238.20]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B15D24DB; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:11:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 10:49:51 -0800 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <20190228004220.fb3ed982fa8a34252ec19bb5@j.email.ne.jp> References: <20190223003126.4aec5a01b77ec9bf9ea0992a@j.email.ne.jp> <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> <20190228004220.fb3ed982fa8a34252ec19bb5@j.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Yoshihiro Ota , Warner Losh CC: ota@j.email.ne.jp, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , greg@unrelenting.technology From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: <603D07F7-CA80-40C6-8D55-3DC6EABE667E@cschubert.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfClRpaGopwgi+fn8zj2EIa5DT3lhLXUg/bKr4sM/s6OOiRYoCr/NLxqozr/ZxO1ads7ssQ5irkD4t/4P1U9eBDtjUZqswYNc0Z0lLrIr2FMz/NyySFAE Y+89XlUpCd3irMhb4sz7pMFX4P91ovafx7Adw3mAfKL219Hf+OrYzRii7IfdtRKnbd3gdTltR9B06zU6rdeecXJIao5cTolydvxKp0JFWxGpZJBnFGKyGSym 3+KOdB08elHrZXmGwVH7kDQXFmISamqaGyKS3g+Qk8A+zXP+iSlC0UntFv7itD5SCE4d/bXEtkSC2J730HTjGY/qipLSZP+Sw4LFV8CMQRg= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C185582ADD X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:11:40 -0000 On February 27, 2019 9:42:20 PM PST, Yoshihiro Ota wrote: >On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 10:24:15 -0700 >Warner Losh wrote: > >> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 3:31 AM Yoshihiro Ota >wrote: >>=20 >> I also found that running kldstat was the easiest way to find which >of >> > driver to use instead of dmesg=2E >> > >>=20 >> Is this a suggestion for changing the drm-kmod package output? Or >just a >> helpful hint for others? >>=20 >> Tanks again=2E >>=20 >> Warner > >This is a helpful hint for others and a suggestion to update documents=2E > >I had read >https://www=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/releases/12=2E0R/relnotes=2Ehtml#hardware-gra= phics >and https://wiki=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/Graphics before I started=2E I had 4 ol= d >laptops and 1 vmawre and I didn't remember which machine uses which CPU >:) >If the doc can mention to check kldstat output and go to corresponding >section, that will make steps easier=2E > >I converted to the port based driver for 4 psychical machines and 1 >vmware machine (although vmware do not use neither of driver=2E) All of >them run 12=2E0-RELEASE=2E All of them start X and work fine=2E I will >likely get to 13-CURRENT a lot later as I ran 13-CURRENT without X and >in vmware most of times=2E > > > >Hiro >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-arch@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg" The ports work as advertised=2E IMO graphics/drm-legacy should be depreci= ated sooner than later=2E I would expect the graphics team could better spe= nd their time and energy on drm-current, which btw works perfectly on my ol= d laptop converted to i386 testbed, than maintaining old bitrot=2E When can= we expect drm-legacy to finally be removed from ports? --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 19:15:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84A4915140BA for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:15:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01D682F2F for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:15:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 90F4215140B9; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:15:14 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5399715140B7 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:15:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D37CE82F2E for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:15:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1SJFBHb018350 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1SJFBtO018349; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:15:11 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Cy Schubert Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Yoshihiro Ota , Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , greg@unrelenting.technology Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-ID: <20190228191511.GA18089@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190223003126.4aec5a01b77ec9bf9ea0992a@j.email.ne.jp> <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> <20190228004220.fb3ed982fa8a34252ec19bb5@j.email.ne.jp> <603D07F7-CA80-40C6-8D55-3DC6EABE667E@cschubert.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <603D07F7-CA80-40C6-8D55-3DC6EABE667E@cschubert.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D37CE82F2E X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:15:15 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 10:49:51AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > On February 27, 2019 9:42:20 PM PST, Yoshihiro Ota wrote: > >On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 10:24:15 -0700 > >Warner Losh wrote: > > > >> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 3:31 AM Yoshihiro Ota > >wrote: > >> > >> I also found that running kldstat was the easiest way to find which > >of > >> > driver to use instead of dmesg. > >> > > >> > >> Is this a suggestion for changing the drm-kmod package output? Or > >just a > >> helpful hint for others? > >> > >> Tanks again. > >> > >> Warner > > > >This is a helpful hint for others and a suggestion to update documents. > > > >I had read > >https://www.freebsd.org/releases/12.0R/relnotes.html#hardware-graphics > >and https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics before I started. I had 4 old > >laptops and 1 vmawre and I didn't remember which machine uses which CPU > >:) > >If the doc can mention to check kldstat output and go to corresponding > >section, that will make steps easier. > > > >I converted to the port based driver for 4 psychical machines and 1 > >vmware machine (although vmware do not use neither of driver.) All of > >them run 12.0-RELEASE. All of them start X and work fine. I will > >likely get to 13-CURRENT a lot later as I ran 13-CURRENT without X and > >in vmware most of times. > > > > > The ports work as advertised. IMO graphics/drm-legacy should be > depreciated sooner than later. I would expect the graphics team > could better spend their time and energy on drm-current, which > btw works perfectly on my old laptop converted to i386 testbed, > than maintaining old bitrot. When can we expect drm-legacy to > finally be removed from ports? > drm-legacy-kmd has already been *depreciated*? Perhaps, you meant deprecated. :) Hopefully, never. drm-current-kmod locks up my laptop. drm-legacy-kmod works. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 19:23:19 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B495A1514F7A; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:23:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06CCC83C78; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:23:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id zRH1gE2t0qO6dzRH3gdR9B; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 12:23:17 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=B/XHL9lM c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=CFTnQlWoA9kA:10 a=7Qk2ozbKAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=uXA9H-vN0aDjisqzskgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=u1iU4zoZatoA:10 a=jj-u_ENxJDUA:10 a=1lyxoWkJIXJV6VJUPhuM:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from [IPv6:2605:8d80:402:e6fa:7662:4608:c1c9:df9c] (unknown [72.143.238.20]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80B8D257C; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:23:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:22:52 -0800 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <20190228191511.GA18089@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20190223003126.4aec5a01b77ec9bf9ea0992a@j.email.ne.jp> <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> <20190228004220.fb3ed982fa8a34252ec19bb5@j.email.ne.jp> <603D07F7-CA80-40C6-8D55-3DC6EABE667E@cschubert.com> <20190228191511.GA18089@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Steve Kargl CC: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Yoshihiro Ota , Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , greg@unrelenting.technology From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfKG3cUcTiuwH129teguqq2mGtwekWNdNb9HXnfWCkjGV838mXxFDpFor7b9Gb/FPfzTVKor8EaZYHstnU+wr58py+tD2vrQYGXIRnXdmfoenHCvccR7M erUaKDDiUcIiKVQlDCICtmGv3qdCcovcmciHdixw7ZHAtTQSn9M6GsBkKlUtmlz1XB/axzgfLvHtYT5Eh0JOh5XOi1xiaNjNrzN1T/IMpANczRoiv4TxERLF NQ6rso8RLQaQ9peqB+UMI4weLIqaH7TlpdcHQ66nSA3m3P+XltpvZc1y5XyYQNfi+vq6n4Bw++e/JZ5bwKCq6F37P6xwwc4O9p2IuEYabRf2R0TWp8fwv/2m kiQQnEhaq7RzCqkzSyHE+iAhOtOI76lNHj/hnhlRiN4/WBBKILQ= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 06CCC83C78 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:23:20 -0000 On February 28, 2019 11:15:11 AM PST, Steve Kargl wrote: >On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 10:49:51AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: >> On February 27, 2019 9:42:20 PM PST, Yoshihiro Ota > wrote: >> >On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 10:24:15 -0700 >> >Warner Losh wrote: >> > >> >> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 3:31 AM Yoshihiro Ota >> >wrote: >> >>=20 >> >> I also found that running kldstat was the easiest way to find >which >> >of >> >> > driver to use instead of dmesg=2E >> >> > >> >>=20 >> >> Is this a suggestion for changing the drm-kmod package output? Or >> >just a >> >> helpful hint for others? >> >>=20 >> >> Tanks again=2E >> >>=20 >> >> Warner >> > >> >This is a helpful hint for others and a suggestion to update >documents=2E >> > >> >I had read >> >>https://www=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/releases/12=2E0R/relnotes=2Ehtml#hardware-gr= aphics >> >and https://wiki=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/Graphics before I started=2E I had 4= old >> >laptops and 1 vmawre and I didn't remember which machine uses which >CPU >> >:) >> >If the doc can mention to check kldstat output and go to >corresponding >> >section, that will make steps easier=2E >> > >> >I converted to the port based driver for 4 psychical machines and 1 >> >vmware machine (although vmware do not use neither of driver=2E) All >of >> >them run 12=2E0-RELEASE=2E All of them start X and work fine=2E I wi= ll >> >likely get to 13-CURRENT a lot later as I ran 13-CURRENT without X >and >> >in vmware most of times=2E >> > >> > >> The ports work as advertised=2E IMO graphics/drm-legacy should be >> depreciated sooner than later=2E I would expect the graphics team >> could better spend their time and energy on drm-current, which >> btw works perfectly on my old laptop converted to i386 testbed, >> than maintaining old bitrot=2E When can we expect drm-legacy to >> finally be removed from ports? >>=20 > >drm-legacy-kmd has already been *depreciated*? > >Perhaps, you meant deprecated=2E :) > >Hopefully, never=2E drm-current-kmod locks up my laptop=2E >drm-legacy-kmod works=2E Yes=2E drm-legacy-kmod should be removed from ports sooner than later=2E d= rm-current-kind works perfectly on older gear like my 13 year old Pentium-M= , which was repurposed as an i386 test platform years ago=2E The reason to remove old software from base is evident=2E The same reason = holds for ports as well=2E The ports team are also a limited resource=2E=20 --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 19:49:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF031515E65 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:49:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED4C684ED3 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:49:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1SJnTY0018864 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:49:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1SJnTed018863; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:49:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:49:29 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Cy Schubert Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Yoshihiro Ota , Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , greg@unrelenting.technology Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-ID: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190223003126.4aec5a01b77ec9bf9ea0992a@j.email.ne.jp> <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> <20190228004220.fb3ed982fa8a34252ec19bb5@j.email.ne.jp> <603D07F7-CA80-40C6-8D55-3DC6EABE667E@cschubert.com> <20190228191511.GA18089@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: ED4C684ED3 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.979,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:49:34 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:22:52AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > On February 28, 2019 11:15:11 AM PST, Steve Kargl wrote: > >On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 10:49:51AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > >> > > >> The ports work as advertised. IMO graphics/drm-legacy should be > >> depreciated sooner than later. I would expect the graphics team > >> could better spend their time and energy on drm-current, which > >> btw works perfectly on my old laptop converted to i386 testbed, > >> than maintaining old bitrot. When can we expect drm-legacy to > >> finally be removed from ports? > >> > > > >drm-legacy-kmd has already been *depreciated*? > > > >Perhaps, you meant deprecated. :) > > > >Hopefully, never. drm-current-kmod locks up my laptop. > >drm-legacy-kmod works. > > Yes. drm-legacy-kmod should be removed from ports sooner > than later. drm-current-kind works perfectly on older gear > like my 13 year old Pentium-M, which was repurposed as an > i386 test platform years ago. Great drm-current-kmod works for you. drm-current-kmod DOES NOT work on my i386 laptop. > The reason to remove old software from base is evident. > The same reason holds for ports as well. The ports team > are also a limited resource. The drm-legacy-kmod port works. It would never have been broken (and it would be unneeded) if the *working* drm2 code in base were never disconnected from the build. The drm-legacy-kmod port would not have been broken for a month if an exp-run were done when modifications to pmap.h had been done. I get it. drm-current-kmod works for you, so lets penalize everyone else by removing working code. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 20:35:02 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079C515175FE; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 20:35:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D5D586923; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 20:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id zSOKgXbQTi4qjzSOMg8GmM; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:34:57 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TYToSiYh c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=CFTnQlWoA9kA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=IpB_pjYC65KwPTBGrs8A:9 a=t3e6miYuDBuM2gKe:21 a=vVLwsHjPMEEFTtiU:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AACE2743; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 12:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x1SKYXa8006340; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 12:34:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x1SKYWMi006337; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 12:34:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu cc: Cy Schubert , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Yoshihiro Ota , Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , greg@unrelenting.technology Subject: Re: DRM removal soon In-Reply-To: Message from Steve Kargl of "Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:49:29 -0800." <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 12:34:32 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfLCFu32iyAQ+JWCiKzEYOrKCCwpM5UcYK90VuIdTV6OzOY/ilWD4+Pa2md5fYvkpFP2TPEVF1bVSSJmwhoJYeXIFzMdgSngMiE4hJvSSFf7YciMTfqTo lMUU9P1nihzYxNlV/Y/wGA9ghdHNY8JWWX5DAkwv7iOxLoCMlyKRHo0iadJz0oj+IdHS97q35mDqMpOj2i5DOesYTRTuOXpsH8ZteS1m/cEChLgf7nRY3rxg um/EQHoQCCYBZ7oLDYBFSXypAut8/aaeS0kLtutFoCwKTWC9rj2ErGcg2qRkt6yJwM+q1V8TbwEWGlA1l3n77qCkVOzMs0250ubTBrfI59hTkRlGdzZGGq24 mno9p4CXfSu6oWic7lilSd6qjWWZbMhnwaIQocUfJrRuncgr6vw= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8D5D586923 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.71 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.958,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[137.136.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.04)[ip: (-5.34), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.68), asn: 6327(-2.10), country: CA(-0.09)]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 20:35:02 -0000 In message <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, Steve Kargl w rites: > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:22:52AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > > On February 28, 2019 11:15:11 AM PST, Steve Kargl gton.edu> wrote: > > >On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 10:49:51AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > > >> > > > >> The ports work as advertised. IMO graphics/drm-legacy should be > > >> depreciated sooner than later. I would expect the graphics team > > >> could better spend their time and energy on drm-current, which > > >> btw works perfectly on my old laptop converted to i386 testbed, > > >> than maintaining old bitrot. When can we expect drm-legacy to > > >> finally be removed from ports? > > >> > > > > > >drm-legacy-kmd has already been *depreciated*? > > > > > >Perhaps, you meant deprecated. :) > > > > > >Hopefully, never. drm-current-kmod locks up my laptop. > > >drm-legacy-kmod works. > > > > Yes. drm-legacy-kmod should be removed from ports sooner > > than later. drm-current-kind works perfectly on older gear > > like my 13 year old Pentium-M, which was repurposed as an > > i386 test platform years ago. > > Great drm-current-kmod works for you. > drm-current-kmod DOES NOT work on my i386 laptop. Hmmm. I could never get drm-legacy-kmod to work properly on my old Pentium-M laptop resorting to VESA. When I upgraded my main laptop (which also has an i386 partition and two amd64 partitions) to drm-current-kmod, rsyncing the i386 /usr/local, it worked with a minor tweak to xorg.conf. Using drm-legacy-kmod on the old machine would initially freeze the display, ultimately freezing the whole machine. No such issues with drm-current-kmod. > > > The reason to remove old software from base is evident. > > The same reason holds for ports as well. The ports team > > are also a limited resource. > > The drm-legacy-kmod port works. It would never have been > broken (and it would be unneeded) if the *working* drm2 code > in base were never disconnected from the build. The > drm-legacy-kmod port would not have been broken for a month > if an exp-run were done when modifications to pmap.h had > been done. The issue is developer time. > > I get it. drm-current-kmod works for you, so lets penalize > everyone else by removing working code. The graphics team supports four DRM ports. When FreeBSD-13 will be released that will become five. This is unsustainable. Additionally i386 and for that matter all 32-platform support has become an afterthought. More often than not it is 32-bit that breaks. This is especially true when what one expects to be a simple one line commit that works on amd64 totally hoses i386. drm-legacy-kmod was broken on i386 for a while for this very reason. The amount of time I've personally spent dealing with my own i386 breakage and worse, my pointing out i386 and legacy issues, time could have been better spent on productive work rather than maintaining software for an ever declining share of the platform pie. Where do we want to spend our meager resources? That goes not only for src but ports too. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 21:06:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8270C1518989 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:06:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2B88821E for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:06:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 99F951518985; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:06:38 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7754E1518984 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:06:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13E908821C for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:06:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1SL6a0P031328 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1SL6ZVe031327; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:06:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:06:35 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Cy Schubert Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Yoshihiro Ota , Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , greg@unrelenting.technology Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-ID: <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 13E908821C X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:06:39 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 12:34:32PM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, Steve > Kargl w > rites: > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:22:52AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > On February 28, 2019 11:15:11 AM PST, Steve Kargl > gton.edu> wrote: > > > >On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 10:49:51AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> The ports work as advertised. IMO graphics/drm-legacy should be > > > >> depreciated sooner than later. I would expect the graphics team > > > >> could better spend their time and energy on drm-current, which > > > >> btw works perfectly on my old laptop converted to i386 testbed, > > > >> than maintaining old bitrot. When can we expect drm-legacy to > > > >> finally be removed from ports? > > > >> > > > > > > > >drm-legacy-kmd has already been *depreciated*? > > > > > > > >Perhaps, you meant deprecated. :) > > > > > > > >Hopefully, never. drm-current-kmod locks up my laptop. > > > >drm-legacy-kmod works. > > > > > > Yes. drm-legacy-kmod should be removed from ports sooner > > > than later. drm-current-kind works perfectly on older gear > > > like my 13 year old Pentium-M, which was repurposed as an > > > i386 test platform years ago. > > > > Great drm-current-kmod works for you. > > drm-current-kmod DOES NOT work on my i386 laptop. > > Hmmm. I could never get drm-legacy-kmod to work properly on my old > Pentium-M laptop resorting to VESA. When I upgraded my main laptop > (which also has an i386 partition and two amd64 partitions) to > drm-current-kmod, rsyncing the i386 /usr/local, it worked with a minor > tweak to xorg.conf. > > Using drm-legacy-kmod on the old machine would initially freeze the > display, ultimately freezing the whole machine. No such issues with > drm-current-kmod. > Seems our experiences are exact opposites. :( I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford new hardware every 2 or 3 years. > > > The reason to remove old software from base is evident. > > > The same reason holds for ports as well. The ports team > > > are also a limited resource. > > > > The drm-legacy-kmod port works. It would never have been > > broken (and it would be unneeded) if the *working* drm2 code > > in base were never disconnected from the build. The > > drm-legacy-kmod port would not have been broken for a month > > if an exp-run were done when modifications to pmap.h had > > been done. > > The issue is developer time. > Yes, I know all to well. I started working on libm some 15 to 20 years ago because I need(ed) long double version of the Bessel function routines. Still, haven't found the time to write those functions. > > > > I get it. drm-current-kmod works for you, so lets penalize > > everyone else by removing working code. > > The graphics team supports four DRM ports. When FreeBSD-13 will be > released that will become five. This is unsustainable. Additionally > i386 and for that matter all 32-platform support has become an > afterthought. More often than not it is 32-bit that breaks. This is > especially true when what one expects to be a simple one line commit > that works on amd64 totally hoses i386. drm-legacy-kmod was broken on > i386 for a while for this very reason. I haven't looked at what the drm-fbsd11.2-kmod or 12.0 mean. I assume that these are the ports for 11-stable and 12-stable, and I assume that these work on those specific stable branches. If that is the case, then there is no support needed by graphics teams unless a src committer merges somethings from -current that breaks stability. If the MFC is a security fix, then the graphics teams may need to asked about helping troubleshoot the 11.2 and 12.0 kmods; otherwise, then MFC should not happen if it breaks stability. Or, perhaps, I have a s different definition of 'stable. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 21:54:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6115151AE49; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:54:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dbkirk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com (mail-wr1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 503A28B704; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:54:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dbkirk@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id d17so23623671wre.10; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:54:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KcX2dMBldm/lp9XaLJ9LuVZrKmoQYJTwxHhoma6ttkE=; b=BdxtMTbcs9tJuXf9ai162KfiOuuO/mz2eVz8CRcR4Eb4TPx9V2XzmuLDih+8OXVcib gFMYL53hcj9KYI/HRRFfVXxDllv70wgl1X8Rwh1dUnkwPFURiYBW7F/YxSuMdmblvwEM fhaqAhbaRX1kd2vGAXUc4r5OoCWprPcHVq9M5iqCrslHyL9Ji4+t+/+/0oiLiuJ+DXca RcDcp8yn8VpTk4JpmFFnflAsv021NP7WyGvS/bj57uUPek8Sv65DVP6UYWo70YJmNFGR stI/W8G1rP6BWUJ+TJ68wkgjWhXDZ8ZvtzCJ0LMPJf5G/CmEHcAA4GSOD1fqGWTQFkwi vuxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KcX2dMBldm/lp9XaLJ9LuVZrKmoQYJTwxHhoma6ttkE=; b=OFxM/zuyqJnZAm3FXEGe+B4ADrhr04UBSCXHVSjxcFY77DuGf6BeS43P6wI8ZiVJQf poBD8EMk0z6P0fWmPek+3tUScPHujppOP1ntvBrxobECXFv2jxNqJXlPIjv4Kj94WLnF HuNO+dRMO61onvRa57SjzzufvCBQ3KSEQhWGPYaTWzyx7X3oVGV33BZarAcJLq+08xjk 8pdQ4nz8iO7C8USQ1P4Z4L7ILrkitvWKERNQXik9b6D70bPPkoZiKbdwx6vi3ejcwBjL Oaz59Z9xqG0K4raN6C/nea0I48F7p/FdId+MBScII1N0SAGMcrUvLPGoUsWz+NNnDQ6G bU7A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWKPCnmbYs2FRRrG3RxVW6h6EKQSHphXqhZFpU/ROjYThuAaSEh 3L/IVaIW5QYnBOL19Eo0pfJSOKjq6EJFJ/g4IJCBoA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyZq0sYE7S/iepX2mCOzORhrSs7ulB0VZwTURGmMyvicWgsfBzPXLXkRVXkFbJmbbKES59PECxrjvA5x89eIYA= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:694d:: with SMTP id r13mr1047108wrw.38.1551390845808; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:54:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Doug Kirk Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 15:53:53 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 503A28B704 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.96 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.957,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:54:08 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 3:07 PM Steve Kargl < sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > Seems our experiences are exact opposites. :( > > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford > new hardware every 2 or 3 years. > > Hmm, because amd64 has only been available for the last 2 or 3 years? It was added to FreeBSD as experimental in 5.1-RELEASE (June 2003) and standard in 5.2-RELEASE (January 2004). Jeff Atwood commented on desktop adoption of x86-64 in 2007 here: https://blog.codinghorror.com/is-it-time-for-64-bit-on-the-desktop/ , and it even mentions that graphics cards don't like 32-bit limits. If you bought an x86-32 system within the last 2-3 years, why is that anybody else's fault that your graphics-based computer was obsolete when you bought it? Please stop whining on the mailing list, you're just adding noise by setting up straw-man arguments. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 21:54:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44BD151AEC4; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:54:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61E858B781; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:54:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from John-Baldwins-MacBook-Pro-3.local (ralph.baldwin.cx [66.234.199.215]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E6011363C; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:54:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Cy Schubert Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , Yoshihiro Ota , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, greg@unrelenting.technology References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: John Baldwin Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jhb@FreeBSD.org; keydata= mQGiBETQ+XcRBADMFybiq69u+fJRy/0wzqTNS8jFfWaBTs5/OfcV7wWezVmf9sgwn8TW0Dk0 c9MBl0pz+H01dA2ZSGZ5fXlmFIsee1WEzqeJzpiwd/pejPgSzXB9ijbLHZ2/E0jhGBcVy5Yo /Tw5+U/+laeYKu2xb0XPvM0zMNls1ah5OnP9a6Ql6wCgupaoMySb7DXm2LHD1Z9jTsHcAQMD /1jzh2BoHriy/Q2s4KzzjVp/mQO5DSm2z14BvbQRcXU48oAosHA1u3Wrov6LfPY+0U1tG47X 1BGfnQH+rNAaH0livoSBQ0IPI/8WfIW7ub4qV6HYwWKVqkDkqwcpmGNDbz3gfaDht6nsie5Z pcuCcul4M9CW7Md6zzyvktjnbz61BADGDCopfZC4of0Z3Ka0u8Wik6UJOuqShBt1WcFS8ya1 oB4rc4tXfSHyMF63aPUBMxHR5DXeH+EO2edoSwViDMqWk1jTnYza51rbGY+pebLQOVOxAY7k do5Ordl3wklBPMVEPWoZ61SdbcjhHVwaC5zfiskcxj5wwXd2E9qYlBqRg7QeSm9obiBCYWxk d2luIDxqaGJARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+iGAEExECACAFAkTQ+awCGwMGCwkIBwMCBBUCCAMEFgID AQIeAQIXgAAKCRBy3lIGd+N/BI6RAJ9S97fvbME+3hxzE3JUyUZ6vTewDACdE1stFuSfqMvM jomvZdYxIYyTUpC5Ag0ERND5ghAIAPwsO0B7BL+bz8sLlLoQktGxXwXQfS5cInvL17Dsgnr3 1AKa94j9EnXQyPEj7u0d+LmEe6CGEGDh1OcGFTMVrof2ZzkSy4+FkZwMKJpTiqeaShMh+Goj XlwIMDxyADYvBIg3eN5YdFKaPQpfgSqhT+7El7w+wSZZD8pPQuLAnie5iz9C8iKy4/cMSOrH YUK/tO+Nhw8Jjlw94Ik0T80iEhI2t+XBVjwdfjbq3HrJ0ehqdBwukyeJRYKmbn298KOFQVHO EVbHA4rF/37jzaMadK43FgJ0SAhPPF5l4l89z5oPu0b/+5e2inA3b8J3iGZxywjM+Csq1tqz hltEc7Q+E08AAwUIAL+15XH8bPbjNJdVyg2CMl10JNW2wWg2Q6qdljeaRqeR6zFus7EZTwtX sNzs5bP8y51PSUDJbeiy2RNCNKWFMndM22TZnk3GNG45nQd4OwYK0RZVrikalmJY5Q6m7Z16 4yrZgIXFdKj2t8F+x613/SJW1lIr9/bDp4U9tw0V1g3l2dFtD3p3ZrQ3hpoDtoK70ioIAjjH aIXIAcm3FGZFXy503DOA0KaTWwvOVdYCFLm3zWuSOmrX/GsEc7ovasOWwjPn878qVjbUKWwx Q4QkF4OhUV9zPtf9tDSAZ3x7QSwoKbCoRCZ/xbyTUPyQ1VvNy/mYrBcYlzHodsaqUDjHuW+I SQQYEQIACQUCRND5ggIbDAAKCRBy3lIGd+N/BCO8AJ9j1dWVQWxw/YdTbEyrRKOY8YZNwwCf afMAg8QvmOWnHx3wl8WslCaXaE8= Message-ID: <4f374050-6ae2-1d39-f148-a4e588838f8d@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:54:39 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 61E858B781 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.974,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:54:58 -0000 On 2/28/19 1:06 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford > new hardware every 2 or 3 years. This is a bit of an exaggeration. I just replaced my previous laptop (Thinkpad x220 from 2011 that I bought used in probably 2013 or so) with a Lenovo X1 from this year (which requires drm-kmod-current). That's a span of 5 years. Note that the in-tree drm2 drivers won't work on laptops made since around 2015 or so. > I haven't looked at what the drm-fbsd11.2-kmod or 12.0 mean. I assume > that these are the ports for 11-stable and 12-stable, and I assume > that these work on those specific stable branches. If that is the > case, then there is no support needed by graphics teams unless a > src committer merges somethings from -current that breaks stability. > If the MFC is a security fix, then the graphics teams may need to > asked about helping troubleshoot the 11.2 and 12.0 kmods; otherwise, > then MFC should not happen if it breaks stability. Or, perhaps, > I have a s different definition of 'stable. I think one of the issues that isn't clear is that there are other ports involved than just the drm-kmod ports. The various x11 driver ports (xf86-video-*) use the DRM APIs. Newer versions of those packages only work with newer versions of DRM, and newer versions of other things like KDE depend on newer versions of X libraries, etc. It actually ends up being a far larger ball of mud at the bottom of the hill than just the drm-kmod ports in terms of the dependencies affected by keeping older versions of DRM around. In your case, I am hopeful that using an amd64 kernel with an i386 chroot is going to give you an overall better experience by giving you more stable kernel support as well as the ability to test libm for both i386 and amd64 on the same machine. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 22:16:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C887151BD1A for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:16:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chmeeedalf@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DB18C80A for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chmeeedalf@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id AFD56151BD15; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:16:58 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B065151BD12; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chmeeedalf@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ADA88C806; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chmeeedalf@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id e186so18031763ioa.0; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:16:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qMwTbwWBdshWjzxXelIHmE/LgWx0izT8ssctmBscs9o=; b=bXi8WVTHz8BggT9l1hwsN5++HTnopsmha04UDU0nkihzZ5oRvpSn69mHDTC0HvaE9g leMPoC+GuIl8KJ7xmLXAk+5jNOnwlWhfd/3ItLOyyQYwyDfTonRWoOGqMkcGhR81v8jd lLiF6Q8iOTvPyXaTqPXQWaHWDh7P8tzv/9bIr1lfk83oyvyLT9bwceD8B0NdWTo/bFea UmkIp1f2zBR3nqfCQcwJDUIw5nHnh5RvTAtoPJ8CpbWvLuVcDS4SDbmJtSyRKEVA//2N IThlFsSxZAv3GW3VHStAaztJ8GSCmGMisaS1/1K47lxMpNEwfn2/JYsZxeTpAs4S4Oon r9fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qMwTbwWBdshWjzxXelIHmE/LgWx0izT8ssctmBscs9o=; b=GUuMlZ8cnmS1X6Dn13eRL/UUam0n3YRQk0mjSl0bfboO4x4cFl9X+5TykK3YRP+WxX xZvH8eOklCV+bta9R+cWrdRy4z74HXCd8iQLB3vlXyAfXrGslUX3NVOT7bq3L1vgQDvJ 8G4lDn3wl6MsFiXQQHR+l+fyIkpHIlP7lZmEbqpPBDymKFQF1M32DBirT+K5CPOYXzIk EQSHd3KTOoB8XKGsMDSUM87XMRYKpFTcy9TqGu1IeBs0/K/WZObRK5A8v9slYee24RK/ 8qY5eqaSy+ZrzOYCkYJYcPs9yhu2uuQ5556fLqXerKIoy9+YG0tobozvQ4DM5obbLBrD 9e2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUev3l/spuz7ANLTX9LRuqNexsXXGQ6SwQXzk/zKDcitpnPDQ0t D055nZ5U7tnngk48JcMHlN0FH+5p7Ps= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw8InZRuwJzZf9lsv6B298rxIkE20/gUFnKRyGMzrV7uwru7ypwbucjhTB6JC35DDx2qRnlpw== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b5c7:: with SMTP id e190mr1027963iof.26.1551392216673; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from titan.knownspace (173-25-245-129.client.mchsi.com. [173.25.245.129]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 203sm3475601itv.6.2019.02.28.14.16.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:16:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:15:24 -0600 From: Justin Hibbits To: John Baldwin Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Cy Schubert , Yoshihiro Ota , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , greg@unrelenting.technology Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-ID: <20190228161524.1449770b@titan.knownspace> In-Reply-To: <4f374050-6ae2-1d39-f148-a4e588838f8d@FreeBSD.org> References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <4f374050-6ae2-1d39-f148-a4e588838f8d@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; powerpc64-portbld-freebsd13.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1ADA88C806 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.983,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:16:59 -0000 On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:54:39 -0800 John Baldwin wrote: > On 2/28/19 1:06 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: > > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford > > new hardware every 2 or 3 years. > > This is a bit of an exaggeration. I just replaced my previous > laptop (Thinkpad x220 from 2011 that I bought used in probably > 2013 or so) with a Lenovo X1 from this year (which requires > drm-kmod-current). That's a span of 5 years. Note that > the in-tree drm2 drivers won't work on laptops made since > around 2015 or so. > > > I haven't looked at what the drm-fbsd11.2-kmod or 12.0 mean. I > > assume that these are the ports for 11-stable and 12-stable, and I > > assume that these work on those specific stable branches. If that > > is the case, then there is no support needed by graphics teams > > unless a src committer merges somethings from -current that breaks > > stability. If the MFC is a security fix, then the graphics teams > > may need to asked about helping troubleshoot the 11.2 and 12.0 > > kmods; otherwise, then MFC should not happen if it breaks > > stability. Or, perhaps, I have a s different definition of > > 'stable. > > I think one of the issues that isn't clear is that there are other > ports involved than just the drm-kmod ports. The various x11 driver > ports (xf86-video-*) use the DRM APIs. Newer versions of those > packages only work with newer versions of DRM, and newer versions of > other things like KDE depend on newer versions of X libraries, etc. > It actually ends up being a far larger ball of mud at the bottom of > the hill than just the drm-kmod ports in terms of the dependencies > affected by keeping older versions of DRM around. > > In your case, I am hopeful that using an amd64 kernel with an i386 > chroot is going to give you an overall better experience by giving > you more stable kernel support as well as the ability to test libm > for both i386 and amd64 on the same machine. > (Picking the latest message in the thread to respond to, nothing more): I would like to point out that for the time being drm-legacy-kmod and the associated xf86-video-ati-legacy driver, is required for graphics on some powerpc systems (notably, my AmigaOne X5000). Matt Macy did some work to get drm-current-kmod working on the POWER9, but since his changes touch many parts of the kernel, not just powerpc-specific sections, it needs a pretty good review. This will be needed for anything to work correctly on the POWER9 TALOS systems. I don't recall if his work is only in his POWER9BSD repository or if he's submitted any reviews on phabricator for it yet. If not, I will do so when I'm able to test on my own hardware. tl;dr: More than i386 is impacted by drm-legacy-kmod, and I'm sure everybody wants to get off the legacy kmod to ease the load on the graphics team, but it will take work by the interested parties to make this happen. - Justin From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Feb 28 23:07:06 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8B65151D986; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:07:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04A4A8EE99; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:07:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1SN71IF059186 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Feb 2019 15:07:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1SN71hA059185; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 15:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 15:07:01 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Doug Kirk Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-ID: <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 04A4A8EE99 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.29 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.10)[-0.100,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.13)[-0.128,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.78)[0.784,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.05)[ip: (0.10), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.16), asn: 73(0.06), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:07:06 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 03:53:53PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote: > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 3:07 PM Steve Kargl < > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > Seems our experiences are exact opposites. :( > > > > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford > > new hardware every 2 or 3 years. > > > > > Hmm, because amd64 has only been available for the last 2 or 3 years? It > was added to FreeBSD as experimental in 5.1-RELEASE (June 2003) and > standard in 5.2-RELEASE (January 2004). I have a amd64 system with CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4018.33-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin="AuthenticAMD" Id=0x600f20 Family=0x15 Model=0x2 Stepping=0 Guess what? Yep, it uses drm-legacy-kmod because the radeon video card (drmn0: ) I have is sort of not supported by drm-current-kmod. When I tried to use drm-current-kmod, I watched /var/log/message fill up with some error message about waiting for a mfence memory barrier. I was advised by the graphics team to use drm-legacy-kmod. Sure, I can just run out an buy a shiny new video card, which will be obsolescence in a few years and fall off the support video list. At which point, I can rinse and repeat. > Jeff Atwood commented on desktop adoption of x86-64 in 2007 here: > https://blog.codinghorror.com/is-it-time-for-64-bit-on-the-desktop/ , and > it even mentions that graphics cards don't like 32-bit limits. > > If you bought an x86-32 system within the last 2-3 years, why is that > anybody else's fault that your graphics-based computer was obsolete when > you bought it? You have completely missed the point. I didn't buy the laptop in the last 2 or 3 years. It is several years old. The system was working just fine until the PAE vs non-PAE merge was committed (which surprise effects i386 systems). It is the system on which I work out the bits for libm, where the i387 FPU is set such that long double only has 53-bits of precision. Yep, I know, no one uses i386-class systems for numerical work. Given the condition of libm and the crickets on freebsd-numerics@, it seems very few people do any numerical research with freebsd. > Please stop whining on the mailing list, you're just adding noise by > setting up straw-man arguments. I suppose pointing out that "the emperor has no clothes" can be considered whining. When I commit a patch to the gcc tree, if it affects others, I work to fix the problem. I don't shoot the messenger. At one point in time, FreeBSD developers cared about the quality of their work. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 00:35:29 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463FE151FC6B; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:35:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dbkirk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35F666A8C3; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:35:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dbkirk@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id i12so24041308wrw.0; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:35:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gRPIWARLHEkpSTWZUHwEK43Sh+uc9iqWgmO+pEAcyFA=; b=GdP4VMfCYoKAMROaslaueXywPAgG6U7VnX8jMzSJX1SegJ0eiuIrsBPH7PcW7zWJkh 3EbqZ7RgtPLGF4m2rFHHWKHKsUq9G+qnAc76vVu13+Xxw1NMxOYBTUJc/PTI7RQEZjxs kuSIe+KhodHqAKUo2gDZeYgz8ynFdUPGE5fEOdVE3zDNjdfzCMujMg8nizjQEFTOu7xr L1/blR8w/Zn78lLLRNIk5bu5huu8TuRfLqGDp6V/SGt/H8eTd1HpqKq11UheX6s7vIJW KW+mJzG2RKiooQIZzvxiNt39WErsEti8Bokv20PW94Wh9Akd/h9fXwS8MUToQ9jls1FN pOUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gRPIWARLHEkpSTWZUHwEK43Sh+uc9iqWgmO+pEAcyFA=; b=JmnIxJz7lS1YxhjhABh72us8hPRizMOEl7y0FiRwRi1pQGJQ0hzSRJEZ7FmqUE7lqZ hMoIpza39PkJ5vuNb0zsmhf+NRnHnPmoZ6xuzr/3UGNEarFydRCXfnm+7cimd6h5NLXF qJM4ShaYQ0esR/CU03pPYDQJOalr3j6tD6k0cw36XxKbEVkCXMuWIIjQ6XvPR/RrQ0pj HKKwI7fzJKcGneahw9yrQdbaDGj+Uz/6mPwGtQMpLQX+yOQmvCg6ca+z51K1Q0YqoXUk kD+WGRL/DHBoCPGH8mgoxE6KeELgEheGGVl458L7+et9yaTv0gan/CNioHQf9EQPG7T6 vv+w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXj0BNy3HTuDPQ7WfIWFPtRI8uHXzfdGOgODuCT6zowNPMS6ri4 k4xI/PekaO7fOaSvPOcy8ZYRU4OL9QrR/GN2+a0LmQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxm+UpCYKAkeMXY8a/IwYSVi0eWs5jsESgqm8oPUWUoBxGOS5OaqTDgU8l7dUngFiJFR3s+baWzm1abjPqgJJQ= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6252:: with SMTP id m18mr1279814wrv.199.1551400526612; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:35:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Doug Kirk Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:35:14 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 35F666A8C3 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=GdP4VMfC; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dbkirk@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::436 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dbkirk@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.79 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.80)[ip: (-9.62), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.28), asn: 15169(-2.03), country: US(-0.07)]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.980,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:35:29 -0000 I'm not FreeBSD developer, I don't want you thinking I am and blame them. But you've beat this horse dead already. No reason to rehash it again. I also value a high S/N ratio, as otherwise it's just wasting my time. On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 5:07 PM Steve Kargl wrote: > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 03:53:53PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 3:07 PM Steve Kargl < > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > Seems our experiences are exact opposites. :( > > > > > > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford > > > new hardware every 2 or 3 years. > > > > > > > > Hmm, because amd64 has only been available for the last 2 or 3 years? It > > was added to FreeBSD as experimental in 5.1-RELEASE (June 2003) and > > standard in 5.2-RELEASE (January 2004). > > I have a amd64 system with > > CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4018.33-MHz K8-class CPU) > Origin="AuthenticAMD" Id=0x600f20 Family=0x15 Model=0x2 Stepping=0 > > Guess what? Yep, it uses drm-legacy-kmod because the radeon video > card (drmn0: ) I have is sort of not supported > by drm-current-kmod. When I tried to use drm-current-kmod, I watched > /var/log/message fill up with some error message about waiting for a > mfence memory barrier. I was advised by the graphics team to use > drm-legacy-kmod. > > Sure, I can just run out an buy a shiny new video card, which will > be obsolescence in a few years and fall off the support video list. > At which point, I can rinse and repeat. > > > Jeff Atwood commented on desktop adoption of x86-64 in 2007 here: > > https://blog.codinghorror.com/is-it-time-for-64-bit-on-the-desktop/ , > and > > it even mentions that graphics cards don't like 32-bit limits. > > > > If you bought an x86-32 system within the last 2-3 years, why is that > > anybody else's fault that your graphics-based computer was obsolete when > > you bought it? > > You have completely missed the point. I didn't buy the laptop > in the last 2 or 3 years. It is several years old. The system > was working just fine until the PAE vs non-PAE merge was committed > (which surprise effects i386 systems). > > It is the system on which I work out the bits for libm, where the i387 > FPU is set such that long double only has 53-bits of precision. Yep, > I know, no one uses i386-class systems for numerical work. Given the > condition of libm and the crickets on freebsd-numerics@, it seems very > few people do any numerical research with freebsd. > > > Please stop whining on the mailing list, you're just adding noise by > > setting up straw-man arguments. > > I suppose pointing out that "the emperor has no clothes" can > be considered whining. When I commit a patch to the gcc tree, > if it affects others, I work to fix the problem. I don't shoot > the messenger. At one point in time, FreeBSD developers cared > about the quality of their work. > > -- > Steve > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 01:03:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 361621520AAF; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 01:03:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9EB96B80B; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 01:03:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x21133hx060083 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x21133GE060082; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:03:03 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Doug Kirk Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-ID: <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C9EB96B80B X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.44)[-0.438,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.83)[0.835,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.06)[0.060,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.05)[ip: (0.10), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.16), asn: 73(0.06), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 01:03:07 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 06:35:14PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote: > (top posting fixed). > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 5:07 PM Steve Kargl > wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 03:53:53PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 3:07 PM Steve Kargl < > > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Seems our experiences are exact opposites. :( > > > > > > > > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford > > > > new hardware every 2 or 3 years. > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, because amd64 has only been available for the last 2 or 3 years? It > > > was added to FreeBSD as experimental in 5.1-RELEASE (June 2003) and > > > standard in 5.2-RELEASE (January 2004). > > > > I have a amd64 system with > > > > CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4018.33-MHz K8-class CPU) > > Origin="AuthenticAMD" Id=0x600f20 Family=0x15 Model=0x2 Stepping=0 > > > > Guess what? Yep, it uses drm-legacy-kmod because the radeon video > > card (drmn0: ) I have is sort of not supported > > by drm-current-kmod. When I tried to use drm-current-kmod, I watched > > /var/log/message fill up with some error message about waiting for a > > mfence memory barrier. I was advised by the graphics team to use > > drm-legacy-kmod. > > > > Sure, I can just run out an buy a shiny new video card, which will > > be obsolescence in a few years and fall off the support video list. > > At which point, I can rinse and repeat. > > > > > Jeff Atwood commented on desktop adoption of x86-64 in 2007 here: > > > https://blog.codinghorror.com/is-it-time-for-64-bit-on-the-desktop/ , > > and > > > it even mentions that graphics cards don't like 32-bit limits. > > > > > > If you bought an x86-32 system within the last 2-3 years, why is that > > > anybody else's fault that your graphics-based computer was obsolete when > > > you bought it? > > > > You have completely missed the point. I didn't buy the laptop > > in the last 2 or 3 years. It is several years old. The system > > was working just fine until the PAE vs non-PAE merge was committed > > (which surprise effects i386 systems). > > > > It is the system on which I work out the bits for libm, where the i387 > > FPU is set such that long double only has 53-bits of precision. Yep, > > I know, no one uses i386-class systems for numerical work. Given the > > condition of libm and the crickets on freebsd-numerics@, it seems very > > few people do any numerical research with freebsd. > > > > > Please stop whining on the mailing list, you're just adding noise by > > > setting up straw-man arguments. > > > > I suppose pointing out that "the emperor has no clothes" can > > be considered whining. When I commit a patch to the gcc tree, > > if it affects others, I work to fix the problem. I don't shoot > > the messenger. At one point in time, FreeBSD developers cared > > about the quality of their work. > > > > I'm not FreeBSD developer, I don't want you thinking I am and blame them. > > But you've beat this horse dead already. No reason to rehash it again. > > I also value a high S/N ratio, as otherwise it's just wasting my time. > drm2 was removed from the base in the last few days. Cy Shubert has already started the conversation of now dropping drm-legacy-kmod. The FreeBSD project wants to move to pkg-base. Hopefully, drm2/drm-legacy is not the shape of things to come. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 01:26:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1566F1521A94 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 01:26:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: from mail.wilcox-tech.com (mail.wilcox-tech.com [45.32.83.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.wilcox-tech.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 367F06C85F for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 01:26:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: (qmail 3347 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2019 01:26:04 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?IPv6:2600:1702:2a80:1b90::25?) (awilcox@wilcox-tech.com@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTPA; 1 Mar 2019 01:26:04 -0000 Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Doug Kirk Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: "A. Wilcox" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:26:27 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux ppc64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="B7cpfjq6Sa5ulunYLRRxsI8VsiH49c3Rt" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 367F06C85F X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=Wilcox-Tech.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com designates 45.32.83.9 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; IP_SCORE(-1.90)[ip: (-6.73), ipnet: 45.32.64.0/19(-3.36), asn: 20473(0.66), country: US(-0.07)]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/mixed,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.Wilcox-Tech.com,tarbaby.junkemailfilter.com,mail.Wilcox-Tech.com,tarbaby.junkemailfilter.com,mail.Wilcox-Tech.com,tarbaby.junkemailfilter.com,mail.Wilcox-Tech.com,tarbaby.junkemailfilter.com,mail.Wilcox-Tech.com,tarbaby.junkemailfilter.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[Wilcox-Tech.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.967,0]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:45.32.64.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 01:26:26 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --B7cpfjq6Sa5ulunYLRRxsI8VsiH49c3Rt Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="asg20Vsykpbq6P8bPqPcOuEctQFtk8OVR"; protected-headers="v1" From: "A. Wilcox" To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Doug Kirk Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: DRM removal soon References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> --asg20Vsykpbq6P8bPqPcOuEctQFtk8OVR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 02/28/19 19:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > drm2 was removed from the base in the last few days. >=20 > Cy Shubert has already started the conversation of now dropping > drm-legacy-kmod. >=20 > The FreeBSD project wants to move to pkg-base. Hopefully, drm2/drm-leg= acy > is not the shape of things to come. I'm sorry to be blunt, but after a month of this, can we all just admit that FreeBSD does not care about, nor support, arches other than amd64? Then all the fighting about this stuff can just be done, and people who care about things other than new shiny garbage can work on projects that agree with them. Best, --arw --=20 A. Wilcox (awilfox) Open-source programmer (C, C++, Python) https://code.foxkit.us/u/awilfox/ --asg20Vsykpbq6P8bPqPcOuEctQFtk8OVR-- --B7cpfjq6Sa5ulunYLRRxsI8VsiH49c3Rt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEjNyWOYPU1SaTSMHHyynLUZIrnRQFAlx4ikMACgkQyynLUZIr nRQW8w//ZnOmfqoVXqBi+mqZTDftXABKRhtW98S0dSewKjcDeh/nS7ExRaIncKUZ rvCgxUdA6yV76Ko2p2M7M+DObrliRFVAZgK58k/4OFLmEbhxzqcRCfpgjm9SLPVT AxDCvIQVkVq+zMiH6sPF/lAUJTVWzxuOvmg08dfqm6C2d70kFqbig3xzPXYJIBRs +xHbwldaxw199fQUIp5zOohMeBju0+Sg8gNHhh/Bf3zPG+/ujRV6Vm/ED+qrsxyr UCFP/lPHDWNOPtxX3qye2lgWmLm8gRMwGhc9+pOFdD1NPOy4Yb7LdE/JSkw+IHKd Qm1Ht0tD30IHHtrI+L7kjx9V3ZGTyEFA36iTEzvC4w6cXa9QG6jZ+RywYi/9mGpy 79mwOSID59T8URMA/j7DNxvM7wZtsgnQzvlUuvkhjCP4MYKWIE8Bzm1PDmkHIfqX n/kMZDKzd6nNucEvKNxOmMz5sKZzemGr/dINi+Q/882zGwDMJeuyxWM+yvZBQ/8T s+zOwZd4hqQJ1eHGEF7y94SDh+7tN1T9yxfZ5MQWVUzQcNeYfaRYgWK4/gfxqzyA 4JPZFHwxBGGskFCWZSetMEpeKsWmNrULiumS1FVhdx5OHJm8UMQDbmrqInrPiy18 GEPEZmaoINKZUw5W0OeqVNUY0NMGxzP9pO7gLgRBcbDqN2qDPP8= =q+jy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --B7cpfjq6Sa5ulunYLRRxsI8VsiH49c3Rt-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 02:45:37 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6153B15001ED for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:45:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x834.google.com (mail-qt1-x834.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::834]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A2626F84C for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:45:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x834.google.com with SMTP id d18so26095141qtg.12 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:45:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NS5725Rwz8HMRTittjMxTckP4/WymnyrgK2TKnYWi4k=; b=BCfomf3z9HPe3+uvWu1vKPZeSAYmHbStxa2KAOeBvBJt/2zPVgRaAjnHGXmVLJw7uD R3v/5DIrRePeeae741iDIXnKvEH5mTin30jF58Gk9FIrxwZfknIVic9GcC51OSJAWUiO 2VpTW0JlHoWff7ZLvExTy71iVXkquoDpAL2ZZdvziac9rYNuWKSvi+ezNnN13Et0E1jQ Klsu/K2B8LFHS+cJ2ky/xxRQWTHpSSHTwcV9VZ3Hmm92x59y1fdagOnXlLbzQpDSBtsY y8nm4VCkLO7yGj7OCnpeUXQiUVSnCFL5HmaypFf90Ic6qw4Nwe+ZZ+bJGsGOUOSzU35s wEpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NS5725Rwz8HMRTittjMxTckP4/WymnyrgK2TKnYWi4k=; b=K4ZHsD+tJQbP7/oSldxJdq0OUI45MGtZsb0R4tVD+P0H2eCjEQlAJ8kV/mhFRvNxZ4 QHHoaWkmFAe+FDYOyWXL/H2toLLcoQjoMame/UkpSJRmqPNG5fLABfusHJUBWpMoErFL 7rYzft4L/v3f86l+3Hn5vnuV4xMV2Kw0FoZ7oSgSEH9WoZf8BoDtOfkvWh2Yq20/Kx5a RA5RY3Dcdmsalzefpm2Zz9lSvsZ5sqRiyjtWfPR6EjAnfGu4VUwhqQuWWhWHYCvDdgsD pNBdDUzdaEE7Fr5VZX9uAdKQroBPewywrSpWu5lTD2WsfKGuD6QrBX1f6yz8bBHhhZ18 Q0Ag== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUMqUCDHhPttM5wwryD6s4szPw0XvbYLufG7+wliJAbSr6WnhtA PwhMYUDoSEZIUOPIR7eJXOWvpnISWbFg3cWDwu9TnQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyN4HSluJDuYQRW8kfNep9Y00r6FNeMaHQTpWa2ZhaVhPvv2M4vX+5p4EdlvKYaSR3CWoAakfDX7mn7Mls/LqM= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:987a:: with SMTP id e55mr2019002qvd.21.1551408335869; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:45:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:45:24 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: "A. Wilcox" Cc: Steve Kargl , Doug Kirk , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8A2626F84C X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=BCfomf3z X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.40 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.708,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.68)[ip: (-8.60), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.71), asn: 15169(-2.03), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 02:45:37 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 6:27 PM A. Wilcox wrote: > On 02/28/19 19:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > drm2 was removed from the base in the last few days. > > > > Cy Shubert has already started the conversation of now dropping > > drm-legacy-kmod. > > > > The FreeBSD project wants to move to pkg-base. Hopefully, > drm2/drm-legacy > > is not the shape of things to come. > It's certainly been a learning experience. > I'm sorry to be blunt, but after a month of this, can we all just admit > that FreeBSD does not care about, nor support, arches other than amd64? > I think this is a bit harsh. The project does care about other arch. We've put a crapton of a work into arm and arm64 for example. > Then all the fighting about this stuff can just be done, and people who > care about things other than new shiny garbage can work on projects that > agree with them. > The project has always had tension between the new and the old. Sometimes it has been beneficial, other times less so. The project needs to have the space to have these discussions, even if sometimes they go a bit far. In the end, a number of new things were learned about what was and wasn't working. We learned that drm2 never worked with PAE. We learned about -m32 to create 32-bit binaries, and that the FPU is programmed the same. We've learned the cost of keeping drm2 around is keeping obsolete xf86-ati-video drivers as well since the ABI of drm and xf86*video software has evolved beyond the level we had in drm2. So while this discussion has had some excesses, misinterpretations, grumpiness, hurt feelings, and frustration, it's also revealed many truths that weren't widely known before. We could do the former better, but the latter is undeniably a good thing. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 05:50:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909BA1503357; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 05:50:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from mail02.asahi-net.or.jp (mail02.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.55.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BCBA83CE1; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 05:50:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from rv515.advok.com (pool-72-76-119-135.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [72.76.119.135]) (Authenticated sender: NR2Y-OOT) by mail02.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3185F2B63A; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 14:50:19 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:50:09 -0500 From: Yoshihiro Ota To: Cy Schubert Cc: ota@j.email.ne.jp, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, FreeBSD X11 mailing list , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, greg@unrelenting.technology Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-Id: <20190301005009.4457f46f10c3a8229b5dd7fc@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20190223003126.4aec5a01b77ec9bf9ea0992a@j.email.ne.jp> <1550926557.1795.0@unrelenting.technology> <20190223234351.0addf9de71953eb31136322b@j.email.ne.jp> <20190228004220.fb3ed982fa8a34252ec19bb5@j.email.ne.jp> <603D07F7-CA80-40C6-8D55-3DC6EABE667E@cschubert.com> <20190228191511.GA18089@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i386-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0BCBA83CE1 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.84 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.84)[-0.841,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 05:50:34 -0000 Hi, all and Cy. I trimmed most of old posts. On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:22:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote: > > Yes. drm-legacy-kmod should be removed from ports sooner than later. drm-current-kind works > perfectly on older gear like my 13 year old Pentium-M, which was repurposed as an i386 test > platform years ago. Don't worry. You are still talking in the unit of years. I still occasionally use a laptop from the last century. :) Jokes aside, I have 2 questions. I have a 12.0-RELEASE base system and 12.0 pkg configuration. Looking back my operational log, pkg install was like this. # pkg install drm-kmod Updating FreeBSD repository catalogue... FreeBSD repository is up to date. All repositories are up to date. The following 3 package(s) will be affected (of 0 checked): New packages to be INSTALLED: drm-kmod: g20180930 drm-legacy-kmod: g20181031_1 gpu-firmware-kmod: g20180825 Question #1: drm-current-kmod was mentioned in your reply. Have I installed wrong kmod? I do not setup X to come up as a part of boot process. So, I login via console and may stay there or decide to startx depending on what I want to do. I can see the driver switching and my kld_list="/boot/modules/radeonkms.ko" loads these modules as expected. On the other hand, I still see the following in dmesg. drmn0: ======================================================= drmn0: This code is obsolete abandonware. Install the graphics/drm-legacy-kmod p kg drmn0: ======================================================= drmn0: Deprecated code (to be removed in FreeBSD 13): drm2 drivers drmn0: ======================================================= drmn0: This code is obsolete abandonware. Install the graphics/drm-legacy-kmod pkg drmn0: ======================================================= drmn0: Deprecated code (to be removed in FreeBSD 13): drm2 drivers drmn0: on vgapci0 info: [drm] RADEON_IS_PCIE info: [drm] initializing kernel modesetting (PALM 0x1002:0x9806 0x144D:0xC589). info: [drm] register mmio base: 0xFEB00000 info: [drm] register mmio size: 262144 info: [drm] radeon_atrm_get_bios: ===> Try ATRM... kldstat -v reports this: 5 1 0x1900d000 10c000 radeonkms.ko (/boot/modules/radeonkms.ko) Contains modules: Id Name 529 vgapci/radeonkms 534 drmn/radeon_atom_hw_i2c 531 radeon_iicbb/iicbb 533 radeon_hw_i2c/iicbus 530 drmn/radeon_iicbb 532 drm/radeon_hw_i2c 6 1 0x19119000 4e000 drm2.ko (/boot/kernel/drm2.ko) Contains modules: Id Name 525 drmn/drm_iic_dp_aux 526 drmn Question #2. Am I loading the right driver set? Regards, Hiro From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 06:45:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4119215074A8; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 06:45:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09BCB8B06D; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 06:45:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id zbvIgflSui4qjzbvJg9yww; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:45:35 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TYToSiYh c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=CFTnQlWoA9kA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=BMnPHU7xLVOoaHBHG-UA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FE863C7; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x216jUCw005467; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:45:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x216jT7Y005464; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:45:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201903010645.x216jT7Y005464@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Yoshihiro Ota cc: Cy Schubert , sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, FreeBSD X11 mailing list , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, greg@unrelenting.technology Subject: Re: DRM removal soon In-Reply-To: Message from Yoshihiro Ota of "Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:50:09 -0500." <20190301005009.4457f46f10c3a8229b5dd7fc@j.email.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:45:29 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfATedRC3IMOx2vuwT/f7cqXo8ShOXKj2QTJaqmcyuNfNS+xqpTtaKgpQQXWSwYBoppBYodM8y5ewIUfKi6n6caknvgwREPvZkKK9lxZOEvV+xgiprSDv uEZMzM7Sff5Kk/jJmmPvBuL4szM/nieKuj553/HFCZp2ai3boDUZDhHeYnWypZttLbyogAquJbfMQzAxLeMhk+fHjU2h8aSZDawg3+mB7cNVWiAq2WpS8Xg0 XVVEYjkmGpJwaZ2O432gPacKf50VevcHgDXrTC9VK7h7vDKFMI/FTyd2MsQ9SZBCTJsrrEXSnOBbNHMP4gzSaltspwkF1TmdmBCcxNRjX7i4ht3oU1WPQp65 4kQrNTIYSdTJA0kVQqE2jNX8530kRQ== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 09BCB8B06D X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.45 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.03)[ip: (-5.27), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.69), asn: 6327(-2.11), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.706,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[137.136.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 06:45:39 -0000 In message <20190301005009.4457f46f10c3a8229b5dd7fc@j.email.ne.jp>, Yoshihiro O ta writes: > Hi, all and Cy. > > I trimmed most of old posts. > > On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:22:52 -0800 > Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > Yes. drm-legacy-kmod should be removed from ports sooner than later. drm-cu > rrent-kind works > > perfectly on older gear like my 13 year old Pentium-M, which was repurposed > as an i386 test > > platform years ago. > > Don't worry. > You are still talking in the unit of years. > I still occasionally use a laptop from the last century. :) > Jokes aside, I have 2 questions. > > I have a 12.0-RELEASE base system and 12.0 pkg configuration. > Looking back my operational log, pkg install was like this. > > # pkg install drm-kmod > Updating FreeBSD repository catalogue... > FreeBSD repository is up to date. > All repositories are up to date. > The following 3 package(s) will be affected (of 0 checked): > > New packages to be INSTALLED: > drm-kmod: g20180930 > drm-legacy-kmod: g20181031_1 > gpu-firmware-kmod: g20180825 > > Question #1: > drm-current-kmod was mentioned in your reply. Have I installed wrong kmod? The drm-kmod meta-port installs the correct drm-*-kmod for you. It appears the package installed the legacy kmod. If you want to install drm-current-kmod or drm-fbsd12.0-kmod you'd need to specify either instead of drm-kmod. Does it work? If it works, stay with it. > > > I do not setup X to come up as a part of boot process. So, I login via conso > le and may stay there or decide to startx depending on what I want to do. I > can see the driver switching and my kld_list="/boot/modules/radeonkms.ko" loa > ds these modules as expected. X loads the correct kernel modules for you. I don't pre-load any drm modules. I let X handle everything for me. Yours does as well. It simply works. > > On the other hand, I still see the following in dmesg. > > drmn0: ======================================================= > drmn0: This code is obsolete abandonware. Install the graphics/drm-legacy-kmo > d p > kg > drmn0: ======================================================= > drmn0: Deprecated code (to be removed in FreeBSD 13): drm2 drivers > drmn0: ======================================================= > drmn0: This code is obsolete abandonware. Install the graphics/drm-legacy-kmo > d pkg > drmn0: ======================================================= > drmn0: Deprecated code (to be removed in FreeBSD 13): drm2 drivers > drmn0: on vgapci0 > info: [drm] RADEON_IS_PCIE > info: [drm] initializing kernel modesetting (PALM 0x1002:0x9806 0x144D:0xC589 > ). > info: [drm] register mmio base: 0xFEB00000 > info: [drm] register mmio size: 262144 > info: [drm] radeon_atrm_get_bios: ===> Try ATRM... The deprecated DRM2 was removed from current after 12 was branched. You could alter the module_path kenv environment variable to put /boot/modules before /boot/kernel, but frankly don't mess with it if it works. > > kldstat -v reports this: > > 5 1 0x1900d000 10c000 radeonkms.ko (/boot/modules/radeonkms.ko) > Contains modules: > Id Name > 529 vgapci/radeonkms > 534 drmn/radeon_atom_hw_i2c > 531 radeon_iicbb/iicbb > 533 radeon_hw_i2c/iicbus > 530 drmn/radeon_iicbb > 532 drm/radeon_hw_i2c > 6 1 0x19119000 4e000 drm2.ko (/boot/kernel/drm2.ko) > Contains modules: > Id Name > 525 drmn/drm_iic_dp_aux > 526 drmn > > Question #2. > Am I loading the right driver set? In your case installing the package is a NOP because the base drm is loaded because it's first in the kld search path. If X works, then don't worry about it. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 12:46:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD22151650C; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 12:46:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07AD876F14; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 12:46:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x21CkJA4061338; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 04:46:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x21CkJSb061337; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 04:46:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201903011246.x21CkJSb061337@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: DRM removal soon In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 04:46:19 -0800 (PST) CC: "A. Wilcox" , Doug Kirk , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , Steve Kargl , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 07AD876F14 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.54 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.74)[0.741,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.31)[0.312,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.59)[0.588,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.01)[ip: (0.06), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.03), asn: 13868(0.01), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 12:46:24 -0000 ( trimmed ) > > The project has always had tension between the new and the old. Sometimes > it has been beneficial, other times less so. The project needs to have the > space to have these discussions, even if sometimes they go a bit far. In > the end, a number of new things were learned about what was and wasn't > working. We learned that drm2 never worked with PAE. We learned about -m32 > to create 32-bit binaries, and that the FPU is programmed the same. We've > learned the cost of keeping drm2 around is keeping obsolete xf86-ati-video > drivers as well since the ABI of drm and xf86*video software has evolved > beyond the level we had in drm2. > > So while this discussion has had some excesses, misinterpretations, > grumpiness, hurt feelings, and frustration, it's also revealed many truths > that weren't widely known before. We could do the former better, but the > latter is undeniably a good thing. BRAVO! I know no one likes bikesheeds, but if we totally avoid them we also avoid communicating. I have repeatly heard from users, developers, and other project members that are up or down stream from FreeBSD that they simply "do not want to get involved as that would just be a bikeshead." I think this lack of engagement and willingness to listen, on all sides, has had a very negative effect on many things. It boils down to we are litterly choosing to not communicate, and by doing so we have also elected to allow others to make the decisions, which then later cause us or others unknown grief. Again, BRAVO Warner, well said! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Mar 2 06:30:30 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F641514EB0 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2019 06:30:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bounces+9749946-7b98-freebsd-arch=freebsd.org@sendgrid.net) Received: from o1678950229.outbound-mail.sendgrid.net (o1678950229.outbound-mail.sendgrid.net [167.89.50.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD2B080745 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2019 06:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bounces+9749946-7b98-freebsd-arch=freebsd.org@sendgrid.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sendgrid.me; h=from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; s=smtpapi; bh=6vG3ZWMFSUVNuWmcVm+v0qYOZa8=; b=vUmxyOPF8puUeQ4Xmc33+ALT+K9uc PGgRzrzeLdtmum/9ItSx/cZmI8LuZEGUQkAe+JW2vCRX/suNcfFQvORqBgcVUoTP TGenLWQ274LvJay/44yvdOigQ84fUnA5PpxE5KIKYYKA+K2X3+8ujbDz0LNyVUnB qIbbSb5g6jWhmk= Received: by filter0074p3iad2.sendgrid.net with SMTP id filter0074p3iad2-13276-5C7A2128-25 2019-03-02 06:22:32.696357305 +0000 UTC m=+110332.939785377 Received: from WINN3MREAI5AD8 (unknown [38.132.124.234]) by ismtpd0030p1iad2.sendgrid.net (SG) with ESMTP id udIbeB7BTDCuRa8cYfYdeA for ; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 06:22:32.657 +0000 (UTC) thread-index: AdTRSKEnmG6Ha8LCT3uEX1tmco5wEw== Thread-Topic: Update payment method now M7PA.87855-212673-8774-1477 From: "service@netflix.com" To: Subject: Update payment method now M7PA.87855-212673-8774-1477 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2019 06:23:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.1.7601.23651 X-SG-EID: t2fXfoZHCw6vGsGKHqKxJ1vvZFmqZoRBNxUXljRrVNaKYO2KHucJytyL0wnZxUDSkJ4JE/u9w6Kjn+ DNOtut4GesRe1x3ZoFgdfpOdgMUK0PPCZfCbXqiw/c++t15PSp7798Zta191O89QAiVByd8eoYgjgK m1KyMPHNzS4471+DMimYutdKAZnGU/qCVhle/yx/gUFRqHgbL2mIgK3iA6gio86uE3RJskua+Z5xWY E4SKFmyXgLZb+1/yvu7LwN X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AD2B080745 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=sendgrid.me header.s=smtpapi header.b=vUmxyOPF; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bounces@sendgrid.net designates 167.89.50.229 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bounces@sendgrid.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [9.43 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:167.89.0.0/17]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[sendgrid.me:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx.sendgrid.net]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[app126121478@xxxxx.com,bounces@sendgrid.net]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.21)[ip: (5.91), ipnet: 167.89.0.0/18(-1.03), asn: 11377(-3.75), country: US(-0.07)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11377, ipnet:167.89.0.0/18, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[9749946-7b98-freebsd-arch=freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[sendgrid.me:s=smtpapi]; FROM_NEQ_DISPLAY_NAME(4.00)[xxxxx.com,netflix.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[app126121478@xxxxx.com,bounces@sendgrid.net]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; URIBL_GREY(1.50)[sendgrid.net.multi.uribl.com,sendgrid.me.multi.uribl.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.996,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.93)[0.931,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[229.50.89.167.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body] X-Spam: Yes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2019 06:30:30 -0000 =20=09 Hi Dear Customer,=09 We weren't able to complete your last payment for your Netflix membership. 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