From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Jul 24 13:55:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F8BAA328 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B8C68650D for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 4A6DDAA326; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:42 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49672AA324 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE80A864F0 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (v-critter.freebsd.dk [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47F3F1AF112 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x6ODtbxq014084 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:38 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x6ODtb8h014083; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:37 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: time to finally adopt IPv6 ? From: Poul-Henning Kamp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <14081.1563976537.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:37 +0000 Message-ID: <14082.1563976537@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: EE80A864F0 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of phk@critter.freebsd.dk designates 130.225.244.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=phk@critter.freebsd.dk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.43 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.47)[-0.474,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[arch@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.68)[-0.676,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.53)[0.532,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: phk.freebsd.dk]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.dk]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; IP_SCORE(0.06)[ip: (0.10), ipnet: 130.225.0.0/16(0.05), asn: 1835(0.14), country: EU(-0.00)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:55:42 -0000 We have ping(8), and ping6(8), we need to tell route(8) if we want -4 or -6 and so on and so forth. We dont need to rehash why IPv6 is treated as a stepchild, and even less if it is anybodys fault, at this point it is an artifact of history and just that. But isnt it about time we start in earnest to integrate things from a command line point of view? Even if for source code hygiene points if it amounts to no more than ping(8) re-execing ping6(8) when given an IPv6 argument ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Jul 24 16:41:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5960B1A7E for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:41:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EB58DB8F for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:41:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id A3776B1A7D; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:41:08 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33AFB1A7C for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:41:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from mx1.sbone.de (mx1.sbone.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:13b:39f::9f:25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mx1.sbone.de", Issuer "SBone.DE" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B01C8DB8E for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:41:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from mail.sbone.de (mail.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:587]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F3218D4A4E7; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:41:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from content-filter.sbone.de (content-filter.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:2742]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 973C7E7086A; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:15:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sbone.de Received: from mail.sbone.de ([IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:587]) by content-filter.sbone.de (content-filter.sbone.de [fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:2742]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DXgGQtm_BiYG; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:15:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.2.110] (unknown [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31:2ef0:eeff:fe03:ee34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 797BBE70848; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:15:56 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: time to finally adopt IPv6 ? Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:15:55 +0000 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0BETAr6137) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <14082.1563976537@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <14082.1563976537@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A3EB58DB8F X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:41:08 -0000 On 24 Jul 2019, at 13:55, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > We have ping(8), and ping6(8), we need to tell route(8) if we want -4 > or -6 > and so on and so forth. > > We dont need to rehash why IPv6 is treated as a stepchild, and even > less if it is anybodys fault, at this point it is an artifact of > history and just that. > > But isnt it about time we start in earnest to integrate things from > a command line point of view? > > Even if for source code hygiene points if it amounts to no more > than ping(8) re-execing ping6(8) when given an IPv6 argument ? What is ping(8)? I don’t have it. There is a GSoC project I think going on to do the ping thing though I cannot remember seeing emails about it; my take on this remains: please don’t try to mangle ping6 into ping; the arguments are too convoluted. We lost that almost 20 years ago. netstat, sockstat, route, nc, telnet, .., or even ifconfig could be more clever, indeed. Make IPv6 the default for commands (we have sysctls which could even tell you if the users wants 4 or 6 as default). Rip IPv4 out slowly and let it die is what I am working on … slowly … I think if we want to do the “inet”/“inet6” “-4”/“-6” “foo”/“foo6” cleanup, doing the inventory of all of them first and then have a common plan to straighten them all out would be good (keeping in mind that for a lot of people IPv4 will go away during the next decade). /bz From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Jul 26 15:49:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446A2A3BA3 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:49:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52E96F076 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:49:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D2995A3BA2; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:49:14 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12DBA3BA1 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:49:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 676856F069 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:49:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.27] ([194.32.164.27]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id x6QFeH1W036799; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 16:40:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: time to finally adopt IPv6 ? From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: <14082.1563976537@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 16:40:15 +0100 Cc: arch@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <46C889C8-5C85-4F59-BFE0-6F9B37E69D4B@gid.co.uk> References: <14082.1563976537@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Poul-Henning Kamp X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D52E96F076 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rb@gid.co.uk does not designate 2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rb@gid.co.uk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.68 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(0.00)[-all]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; MX_INVALID(0.50)[cached]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FORWARDED(0.00)[arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.972,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gid.co.uk]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; SPF_FAIL_FORWARDING(0.00)[]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_FORWARDING(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.80)[-0.803,0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.79)[-0.791,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.12)[ip: (0.92), ipnet: 2610:1c1:1::/48(-3.66), asn: 11403(-2.78), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:2610:1c1:1::/48, country:US]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS(0.00)[arch@freebsd.org ..,freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:49:15 -0000 Hi, > On 24 Jul 2019, at 14:55, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > We have ping(8), and ping6(8), we need to tell route(8) if we want -4 or -6 > and so on and so forth. > > We dont need to rehash why IPv6 is treated as a stepchild, and even > less if it is anybodys fault, at this point it is an artifact of > history and just that. > > But isnt it about time we start in earnest to integrate things from > a command line point of view? +1 > Even if for source code hygiene points if it amounts to no more > than ping(8) re-execing ping6(8) when given an IPv6 argument ? > > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk