From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun May 12 01:49:50 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E10F1588536 for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 01:49:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35524833F0; Sun, 12 May 2019 01:49:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.0.5] (unknown [181.52.72.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: pfg) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BE8A4B9CD; Sun, 12 May 2019 01:49:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: Windows support for linux sounds like it would open the door to FreeBSD To: Alan Somers Cc: FreeBSD Hackers References: From: Pedro Giffuni Organization: FreeBSD Message-ID: <3a3dc8cd-7160-0368-2a8a-3170a2171764@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 20:49:46 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 35524833F0 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.96 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.995,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:2610:1c1:1::/48, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 01:49:50 -0000 On 09/05/2019 21:07, Alan Somers wrote: > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:12 PM Pedro Giffuni wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> Just a though here ... Microsoft seems to be abandoning the linuxulator >> approach for their "WSL" support on Windows 10 in favor of a more >> hypervisor-like support: >> >> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/announcing-wsl-2/ >> >> If I read this correctly, it may be possible for us to run a FreeBSD >> kernel, perhaps it would be comparable as porting FreeBSD to yet another >> hypervisor. Just speculation since no code has been released yet, but >> surely something to keep an eye on. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Pedro. > Interesting. It sounds like the Linux VM will have direct access to > the host file system. Perhaps using something like 9P ? Yes, exactly 9P ! This has been confirmed now by Microsoft (courtesy of Phoronix): https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=WSL2-Build-Conf-Video Cheers, Pedro. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 13 06:40:04 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849B115AD57B for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 06:40:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de) Received: from dedi548.your-server.de (dedi548.your-server.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d0a:2645::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3DD76B2A3 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 06:40:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de) Received: from [88.198.220.132] (helo=sslproxy03.your-server.de) by dedi548.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1hQ4cr-00079M-5U for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:39:53 +0200 Received: from [82.100.198.138] (helo=mail.embedded-brains.de) by sslproxy03.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hQ4cq-0007vR-TG for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:39:52 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost.localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C58F2A165B for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:40:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.embedded-brains.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.eb.localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id S72q9-5NX-pM for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:40:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C67292A165C for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:40:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.eb.localhost Received: from mail.embedded-brains.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.eb.localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id vA8WEI7bgz77 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:40:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from linux-diu0.suse (unknown [192.168.96.161]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55B92A165B for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:40:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Sebastian Huber To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [PATCH] ifconfig: Avoid superfluous write to const string Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 08:39:51 +0200 Message-Id: <20190513063951.6521-1-sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.16.4 X-Authenticated-Sender: smtp-embedded@poldinet.de X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.100.3/25447/Sun May 12 09:56:54 2019) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D3DD76B2A3 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2a01:4f8:d0a:2645::2 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de) smtp.mailfrom=sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.embeddedbrains.de,mx.netmuc.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.86)[-0.863,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.76)[ipnet: 2a01:4f8::/29(-2.05), asn: 24940(-1.74), country: DE(-0.01)]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[embedded-brains.de]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 06:40:04 -0000 --- sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c | 6 ++---- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) diff --git a/sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c b/sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c index 3d44a4c0b99..279a31773f4 100644 --- a/sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c +++ b/sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c @@ -141,20 +141,18 @@ in_getaddr(const char *s, int which) sin->sin_family = AF_INET; if (which == ADDR) { - char *p = NULL; + const char *p = strrchr(s, '/'); - if((p = strrchr(s, '/')) != NULL) { + if (p != NULL) { const char *errstr; /* address is `name/masklen' */ int masklen; struct sockaddr_in *min = sintab[MASK]; - *p = '\0'; if (!isdigit(*(p + 1))) errstr = "invalid"; else masklen = (int)strtonum(p + 1, 0, 32, &errstr); if (errstr != NULL) { - *p = '/'; errx(1, "%s: bad value (width %s)", s, errstr); } min->sin_family = AF_INET; -- 2.16.4 From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 13 06:45:20 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F040E15AD878 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 06:45:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de) Received: from dedi548.your-server.de (dedi548.your-server.de [85.10.215.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BB2E6B7C8 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 06:45:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de) Received: from [88.198.220.132] (helo=sslproxy03.your-server.de) by dedi548.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1hQ4i3-0007H7-84 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:45:15 +0200 Received: from [82.100.198.138] (helo=mail.embedded-brains.de) by sslproxy03.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hQ4i3-00086i-0I for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:45:15 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost.localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FB112A165C for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:45:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.embedded-brains.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.eb.localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 92lX4j57adAv for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:45:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5192A165B for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:45:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.eb.localhost Received: from mail.embedded-brains.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.eb.localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id JyVDMiIG4tdp for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:45:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from huber-nb-linux.suse (unknown [192.168.96.161]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C886C2A167E for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:45:44 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [PATCH] ifconfig: Avoid superfluous write to const string From: Sebastian Huber To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20190513063951.6521-1-sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 08:45:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190513063951.6521-1-sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Authenticated-Sender: smtp-embedded@poldinet.de X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.100.3/25447/Sun May 12 09:56:54 2019) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8BB2E6B7C8 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de designates 85.10.215.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.04 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:85.10.215.148]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx.embeddedbrains.de]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.39)[-0.386,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[embedded-brains.de]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[148.215.10.85.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.35)[asn: 24940(-1.74), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:85.10.192.0/18, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 06:45:20 -0000 Sorry, this patch is wrong. The *p =3D '\0' assignment is necessary so=20 that later calls to inet_aton(), gethostbyname() and getnetbyname() work. On 13/05/2019 08:39, Sebastian Huber wrote: > --- > sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c | 6 ++---- > 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) > > diff --git a/sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c b/sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c > index 3d44a4c0b99..279a31773f4 100644 > --- a/sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c > +++ b/sbin/ifconfig/af_inet.c > @@ -141,20 +141,18 @@ in_getaddr(const char *s, int which) > sin->sin_family =3D AF_INET; > =20 > if (which =3D=3D ADDR) { > - char *p =3D NULL; > + const char *p =3D strrchr(s, '/'); > =20 > - if((p =3D strrchr(s, '/')) !=3D NULL) { > + if (p !=3D NULL) { > const char *errstr; > /* address is `name/masklen' */ > int masklen; > struct sockaddr_in *min =3D sintab[MASK]; > - *p =3D '\0'; > if (!isdigit(*(p + 1))) > errstr =3D "invalid"; > else > masklen =3D (int)strtonum(p + 1, 0, 32, &errstr); > if (errstr !=3D NULL) { > - *p =3D '/'; > errx(1, "%s: bad value (width %s)", s, errstr); > } > min->sin_family =3D AF_INET; --=20 Sebastian Huber, embedded brains GmbH Address : Dornierstr. 4, D-82178 Puchheim, Germany Phone : +49 89 189 47 41-16 Fax : +49 89 189 47 41-09 E-Mail : sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de PGP : Public key available on request. Diese Nachricht ist keine gesch=C3=A4ftliche Mitteilung im Sinne des EHUG= . From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 08:31:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187C315AF9A9 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 08:31:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vtr.rulingia.com (vtr.rulingia.com [IPv6:2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vtr.rulingia.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19818819AC for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 08:31:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (ppp59-167-167-3.static.internode.on.net [59.167.167.3]) by vtr.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x4F8VWIM092108 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 18:31:38 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x4F8VQ5U044642 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 18:31:27 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x4F8VQ30044641 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 15 May 2019 18:31:26 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 18:31:26 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD Security Advisory FreeBSD-SA-19:07.mds Message-ID: <20190515083126.GC65203@server.rulingia.com> References: <20190515000302.44CBB1AB79@freefall.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190515000302.44CBB1AB79@freefall.freebsd.org> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 08:31:44 -0000 --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-May-15 00:03:02 +0000, FreeBSD Security Advisories wrote: >Systems with users or processors in different trust domains should disable >Hyper-Threading by setting the machdep.hyperthreading_allowed tunable to 0: > ># echo 'machdep.hyperthreading_allowed=3D0 >> /boot/loader.conf' ># shutdown For maximum security, "shutdown -P now" would be better than a bare "shutdo= wn". I suspect "shutdown -r now" was intended here. --=20 Peter Jeremy --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE7rKYbDBnHnTmXCJ+FqWXoOSiCzQFAlzbzl5fFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEVF QjI5ODZDMzA2NzFFNzRFNjVDMjI3RTE2QTU5N0EwRTRBMjBCMzQACgkQFqWXoOSi CzTcew/+M33D3nsKVYFTgGwKWN84i0SL4ASHg60tDDZa6O5ZIlI++iaFBJ7Q/4X6 b4i6Kj1FrU5ANJbHo95AP2lz9srMPgCixTFt0m67bwAxlhBBcKG1sUNWIuZT3d9C SwwXzq2O7GREuKWa2se/Wylrt4lKOrJMYaABO0PY5SqD3OyWzATfYOm867W0GQlv nNlauUneoLoRUeeu03hTBeSsvA3u/BVSMk/CY+l8EPAl0g8WTNaxE2jyuZWecv75 ERAk5RlYzyunYN22ycWDKsrm/aFXG0eNiu0S8Wgt/MBulLYW3TrhbrQZk7FHrAE5 TTm/Uc4tBgQIWA0e8C4rLc0zXo2OZ6iGJrwxWhirjsxkZ1FXZLRVnOQcvLGtUdrI Tatziu+Bnt4MNCRoAVnxMWx8+/08seaWPT4E1zAavnCDH69pfSzN+WQ/jMytWDoH aJ6y+FMOym+378FelQMDBQLb4KMh5DvBlPNYGGFzeiBSktTvdME2VlAo7X0gmxoT cbH1XotCUmNQkhVH1ir/187ztLVH8qm3LRUri/uuqIvlmr+Oxtkml8Lz8KsZ+Sc6 mZvs3GhwTE9A2Qa+uidN+Rh+XObvSsmlcS8rUGwPKtRIH5pWm3K+qFwW6M8T9NvQ RMl3OlWu8Rmj/8ea1MYMhigyXncY99Wm5kWxsQdnICIF2OIhrOM= =9SsJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 14:25:52 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298221592B6F for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:25:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7AC8D335 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:25:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 604501592B6A; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:25:51 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA7B1592B69; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:25:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "slim.berklix.org", Issuer "slim.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3C708D32C; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:25:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p2E52CF95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.82.207.149]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x4FEPaEB019318 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 May 2019 16:25:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id x4FEPZX2071746; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:25:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x4FEPNqk065975; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:25:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> To: core@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com/jhs http://stolenvotes.uk User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://www.berklix.eu/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.eu/~jhs/ Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 16:25:23 +0200 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: F3C708D32C X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.08 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.88)[0.884,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[berklix.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.38)[0.375,0]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(0.17)[ip: (0.62), ipnet: 94.185.88.0/22(0.31), asn: 33824(-0.08), country: DE(-0.01)]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[slim.berklix.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.76)[0.759,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[68.90.185.94.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.207.82.46.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:33824, ipnet:94.185.88.0/22, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 14:25:52 -0000 Hi core@, cc hackers@ & stable@ PR headline : "FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins." https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/date.html Volunteers who contribute actual fixes are very much appreciated; But those styled as 'management' who delay announcements to batch floods damage us. As they've previously refused to stop, it's time to sack them. Just send each announcement out when ready, no delays to batch them. No sys admins can deal with 8 in 3 mins: Especially on multiple systems & releases. Recipients start mitigating, then more flood in, & need review which are most urgent to interrupt to; While also avoiding sudden upgrades to many servers & releases, to minimise disturbing server users, bosses & customers. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers died. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 14:32:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 054CF159336E for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:32:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37BC18DBE7 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:32:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id ECF281593369; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:32:46 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5AC1593368; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:32:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f54.google.com (mail-lf1-f54.google.com [209.85.167.54]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5543D8DBDE; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:32:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f54.google.com with SMTP id y10so9570lfl.3; Wed, 15 May 2019 07:32:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=q2skSffZtfo+RM9AdGna71az9dWIc1aqxTmw/BajE94=; b=g8GcZJNujHfwabbOY5aj5b9G1PC6fByBvmQdc6n5l5ZRUz4ftperKkNeE/C5sdNHib AywNENHKuE5p2bsffqW/MAgPW1QQSpXl7KcbP4xJix6O7zfaIZwOXpM5GBHoz7T+sSz3 4ZIN1rmRiml4B46sIJfRLl9HDJCyIPG5px+nRMJaTEKypeAOvF71xRICQSIoWlJmXqgQ 2cVM+K7EGOvQU/p8MIWmSPVdM3DUaCGOvtWJfES5SaQzvcMICWe0xn6QloQl9q9q4+zS JRP65NBL7FnpdVpnisbRV1or55o9uNmxXNWt7SncifAQDtqSYhDCxR+JTzKrJsqqH3I7 Rm1g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVSof8wOGgT2KKjYA+pr3n8th76/jfl0pQVJU4/CKCEGtlZknzr 1Kw1gk1vnRUJ2QVz6w/EsoWypiMorqWgwe7jEMFUqpQN X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzFs9TjC4aLSUKPq6L4seAhBhlqimhnIycqOcE9ojTDQzhPWdKQitz4pj3D51bdhITX+dWhuRd7BBpeJRXAAwE= X-Received: by 2002:a19:5015:: with SMTP id e21mr21251288lfb.62.1557930758725; Wed, 15 May 2019 07:32:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Alan Somers Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 08:32:26 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: FreeBSD Core Team , FreeBSD Stable ML , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5543D8DBDE X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.95 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.947,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 14:32:48 -0000 On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:26 AM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > Hi core@, > cc hackers@ & stable@ > > PR headline : "FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins." > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/date.html > > Volunteers who contribute actual fixes are very much appreciated; > But those styled as 'management' who delay announcements to batch floods > damage us. As they've previously refused to stop, it's time to sack them. > > Just send each announcement out when ready, no delays to batch them. > No sys admins can deal with 8 in 3 mins: > Especially on multiple systems & releases. Recipients start > mitigating, then more flood in, & need review which are > most urgent to interrupt to; While also avoiding sudden upgrades > to many servers & releases, to minimise disturbing server users, > bosses & customers. > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers died. I disagree, Julian. I think SAs are easier to deal with when they're batched. True, I can't fix the first one in less than 3 minutes. But then I probably wouldn't even notice it that fast. Batching them all together means fewer updates and reboots. -Alan From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 15:44:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212281595F8B for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9342590E1F for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 4EC2F1595F89; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:47 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E9F1595F88; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "slim.berklix.org", Issuer "slim.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25E0190E19; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p2E52CF95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.82.207.149]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x4FFie6a019980 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 May 2019 17:44:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id x4FFidIQ072255; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:44:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x4FFiR0G067138; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:44:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Alan Somers Cc: FreeBSD Core Team , FreeBSD Stable ML , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com/jhs http://stolenvotes.uk User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Wed, 15 May 2019 08:32:26 -0600." Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 17:44:27 +0200 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 25E0190E19 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.99 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.77)[0.773,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[berklix.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.40)[0.401,0]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(0.16)[ip: (0.58), ipnet: 94.185.88.0/22(0.29), asn: 33824(-0.07), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: slim.berklix.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.77)[0.772,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[68.90.185.94.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:33824, ipnet:94.185.88.0/22, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.207.82.46.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:48 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: Alan Somers > Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 08:32:26 -0600 Alan Somers wrote: > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:26 AM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > Hi core@, > > cc hackers@ & stable@ > > > > PR headline : "FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins." > > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/date.html > > > > Volunteers who contribute actual fixes are very much appreciated; > > But those styled as 'management' who delay announcements to batch floods > > damage us. As they've previously refused to stop, it's time to sack them. > > > > Just send each announcement out when ready, no delays to batch them. > > No sys admins can deal with 8 in 3 mins: > > Especially on multiple systems & releases. Recipients start > > mitigating, then more flood in, & need review which are > > most urgent to interrupt to; While also avoiding sudden upgrades > > to many servers & releases, to minimise disturbing server users, > > bosses & customers. > > > > Cheers, > > Julian > > -- > > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent > > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. > > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers died. > > I disagree, Julian. I think SAs are easier to deal with when they're > batched. True, I can't fix the first one in less than 3 minutes. But > then I probably wouldn't even notice it that fast. Batching them all > together means fewer updates and reboots. Batching also means some of these vulnerabilities could have been fixed earlier & less of a surge of demand on recipient admins time. An admin can find time to ameliorate 1 bug, not 8 suddenly together. Avoidance is called planning ahead. Giving warning of a workload. Like an admin plans ahead & announces an outage schedule for planned upgrade. Suddenly dumping 8 on admins causes overload on admin manpower. 8 reason for users to approach admin in parallel & say "FreeBSD seems riddled, how long will all the sudden unplanned outages take ? Should we just dump it ?" Dont want negative PR & lack of management. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers died. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 16:13:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C829315979B6 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:13:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from will@firepipe.net) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487DD93A27 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:13:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from will@firepipe.net) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 0975815979B4; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:13:08 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1A015979B2 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:13:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from will@firepipe.net) Received: from mail-qk1-x72a.google.com (mail-qk1-x72a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CA5893A21 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:13:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from will@firepipe.net) Received: by mail-qk1-x72a.google.com with SMTP id a132so289647qkb.13 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 09:13:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=firepipe-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rMEa1zDdJyvwxY45LX6vdxIxMYPAnK8e3fBGKBYQ7lA=; b=kfX9q7RS6r42HasJ3JnTH8BHAG8LRelN/bC9pYaTexA9pzXZH9UrLDCKnH0HEYU3Ng 1GYiAEnHbN48f9WEveXQSLH9/miu84wU4syzBJ3a9GExwxwyqYlI9lGATCLB+1UjI0YZ 7pX8yCu2hL6+iuQHHF/GzQ8yMCH+BTPw37X2PXBqNNrzDbv/OGC1A12Xm18pd820GUgY BeWCmzTP+s2X8eWEEU5ePJf7i+kv+4uEHioIyEKjMQItzSlaq9EXxUVcKzkmNiFQoOZg GwOAHXLHI7A2gCD1vEHclTkyMkp0nNmLMUzPTo644jaPsamgQUTEDdrdEKWOUdR1BxpH I00Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rMEa1zDdJyvwxY45LX6vdxIxMYPAnK8e3fBGKBYQ7lA=; b=O/1+yXMxDl9Z9/jWmxpSpdvSEjby8enTu85rrDOyncAocnobY2DrgWXqQElitwa7iR pAdMp7pOuRSdTMlnQq18w+VHOTkp7Wv5x8WiR1FMt5d8hmgVmqaDwEF651L1ujBI0aK5 QRqSFf7IhKsk31U6o8qF5oV3UgzsbJPHcDjCt8Y7K5hIVGZNDuZ2KBjUYSfrrNYLEirh 8BuVP4NmulaA7fiakdDDG8G1AaBwsIhlXBEaLs/O1cE89WT16W5zrhMCuEJVN2yH7Bpu e7e6l28Vq6dHBAwSzyXyqt8um90MdMEwyV0NQORWxQbNj+AdVz4qIjJRaD3OeZgIMurj wmOw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWYxWAdzoHaB9XqIC0CIduzGNfEV4WhxNrE6FFYK4zgBw6XZztc 0IFA/k25svgYCisJU3OgeX93ujjCp8yajyszDEKRYg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwdxqUIiSAqcuRit/VCgPOwOA/GG8gc9kygbXJ8MZO5W9L+EPMOLMi1D6vJu7Wd5Xhy7HWKc1ucNBnbv4zaf2A= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9103:: with SMTP id t3mr35068514qkd.78.1557936786926; Wed, 15 May 2019 09:13:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Will Andrews Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 11:12:55 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Stable ML , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Core Team X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7CA5893A21 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.973,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 16:13:09 -0000 On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:45 AM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Batching also means some of these vulnerabilities could have been > fixed earlier & less of a surge of demand on recipient admins time. > > An admin can find time to ameliorate 1 bug, not 8 suddenly together. > Avoidance is called planning ahead. Giving warning of a workload. > Like an admin plans ahead & announces an outage schedule for planned > upgrade. > > Suddenly dumping 8 on admins causes overload on admin manpower. > 8 reason for users to approach admin in parallel & say > "FreeBSD seems riddled, how long will all the sudden unplanned > outages take ? Should we just dump it ?" > Dont want negative PR & lack of management. > What admins prefer 8 downtime events instead of 1? --Will. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 17:15:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA001599D56 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:15:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2AB962D5 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:15:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 0C8041599D54; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:15:44 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDCA81599D52; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:15:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "slim.berklix.org", Issuer "slim.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78AA8962D2; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:15:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p2E52CF95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.82.207.149]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x4FHFY5i020724 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 May 2019 19:15:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id x4FHFXlO072830; Wed, 15 May 2019 19:15:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x4FHF4eC068579; Wed, 15 May 2019 19:15:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Matt Garber cc: Will Andrews , FreeBSD Stable ML , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Core Team , Alan Somers Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com/jhs http://stolenvotes.uk User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Wed, 15 May 2019 12:16:37 -0400." <6CE35CEB-C2AB-47B1-AA86-BC9C91B2B8A6@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 19:15:04 +0200 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 78AA8962D2 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.93 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: slim.berklix.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:33824, ipnet:94.185.88.0/22, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.207.82.46.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.88)[0.883,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[berklix.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.37)[0.365,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.65)[0.647,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[68.90.185.94.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.15)[ip: (0.54), ipnet: 94.185.88.0/22(0.27), asn: 33824(-0.07), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 17:15:45 -0000 Thanks Will, You make some good points, but all depend on variant circustances. I prefer to be informed ASAP, to make my own decisons with max info ASAP, Not delayed. I want freebsd.org to Not Delay fix announcements into batches. If other admins want to delay being told told to do upgrades until there's lots more to consider & upgrade, they can dummy the delay their receive end, just filtering announcements into their own special box they read once per period. As soon as exploits are in the wild, some will exploit, not announcing until binary updates are ready gives black hats more time. > Whatever other negative things you can say about them, I don't hear enterprise admins begging that Microsoft/Oracle/whoever would dribble out patches one at a time each week instead of combining them like they do; it seems like it works just fine for everyone else. MS make lots of money from the addicted cluless, despite MS loosers frequently complain eg that PCs are locked up again in mid auto update & owner can't shut down to catch a plane or train. MS servers I avoid like the plague. PS Here seems (*) an example of something in text config didnt even need to wait for src/ let alone bin. * Not sure, I'll try it later, got to dash off line. https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/001878.html ] IV. Workaround ] Use 'restrict noquery' in the ntpd configuration to limit addresses that ] can send mode 6 queries. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers died. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 18:19:23 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C6D159BE9C for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 18:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB4E6A3B8 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 18:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id CE4A7159BE9B; Wed, 15 May 2019 18:19:22 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF2C159BE99; Wed, 15 May 2019 18:19:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: from aurora.gregv.net (aurora.gregv.net [IPv6:2607:5600:bd::1:1000]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E336A3B4; Wed, 15 May 2019 18:19:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: by aurora.gregv.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4625D61F92; Wed, 15 May 2019 14:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 14:19:15 -0400 From: Greg Veldman To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Matt Garber , Will Andrews , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Core Team , FreeBSD Stable ML , Alan Somers Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. Message-ID: <20190515181915.GD42338@aurora.gregv.net> References: <6CE35CEB-C2AB-47B1-AA86-BC9C91B2B8A6@gmail.com> <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 60E336A3B4 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.989,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 18:19:23 -0000 On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 07:15:04PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > You make some good points, but all depend on variant circustances. I think there's validity to both points of view, and as you say I think a lot of it depends on circumstance. For example on my personal systems, where I can patch/update/change/whatever on a whim, I agree I'd rather know sooner. But I also do this professionally, and at work it's much more difficult to get a maintenance window. In that setting, where you can't patch and reboot a box every day, batching makes sense. It allows several defects to be fixed at once and actually reduces the time you're sitting with publically known issues on your running systems, waiting for RFC approval. That said, there are perhaps some things that can be done to make the process more predictable, which I'd submit for consideration to the various groups on this thread. First, perhaps there could be some advance notice when a large batch of fixes like this is about to drop. Nothing that gives details, but just something to allow enterprise admins to plan ahead and possibly be ready when the details are released. By way of example, I'm thinking of how the Samba project handled a security release which also dropped this week. [1][2] Second, to ensure things are being fixed in a reasonable manner and not waiting excessively long for a batch to queue up, perhaps secteam@ could share vulnerability timing metrics in (for example) quarterly reports, to include such things as time from initial report to released fix, time under embargo, etc. Again, doesn't have to be bug-specific, but an average would be useful. That would set the stage for a meaningful debate based on actual data, instead of just personal preferences. [1] https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba-announce/2019/000477.html [2] https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba-announce/2019/000478.html -- Greg Veldman freebsd@gregv.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 17:53:02 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFDA159ABDF for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:53:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gordon@tetlows.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093B497827 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:53:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gordon@tetlows.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id BB5F5159ABDE; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:53:01 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97939159ABDC for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:53:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gordon@tetlows.org) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34A9C97821 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:53:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gordon@tetlows.org) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id k24so687358qtq.7 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 10:53:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tetlows.org; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=wB5skITX1hOvjOrnZPFRjv7iNmLLHeJ0DX0MqCw8S+o=; b=glevW5dJjPFk5VrYQxJM2iPgiLjjz2nLONRkGLIn1uLNd03gscqbJQCTOT7Ca80gzk MRMhLZfRi8v9wQKbvfhUbi+/8wDJpzlLv1RXmn/nZMrZirv7OsW3k8C5R/nGKcpwIvtV h0ykMdFH3icBAtE9T9/ToNChPzTmW3KP1HRdQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=wB5skITX1hOvjOrnZPFRjv7iNmLLHeJ0DX0MqCw8S+o=; b=dmXfUojMhN2ELujD0iVggwoDplipS6xNOphvTBspl63V3xPVE4pcRmldr13jkstBI9 pu7Yk4VY0DAX4wNhSzIpsOupaecsXRiyGFftA2ITIAtk903OflxAkDHqXo6gTfZhSyND E/CWl17bovrRmQkR3hETxR/YvT8bDC35BnQmEZYTFw3eupbuPoPqT8C1O19dbC6j9qoN ozoVPm/+JGHirMqb0JILg3eUpOD01FIqkNvAlKcOn2EvS1d7dymLVIXNte+Niipcu1As gylZwv0sK+QzBouubNdeV3iVoNgxQudumu33ebdd1CcnH22wwF5tTFiDenuzdGghgNYm 3RQg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUpaurBm8lA4KG2OuHamOw80b6lQhZsFww8EQPzHp/KlgVGHaTg yWUCTsgcY4tAGEi3XFM/Jn98g27bSDZJCGoVcA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyZ37psuRRjWllIjP9thMKolx2echVUr5TLJC9DR4dT13bp7NQAeOY2oYbtnozs97TE//ysdA== X-Received: by 2002:aed:30cf:: with SMTP id 73mr22188770qtf.356.1557942780649; Wed, 15 May 2019 10:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmail.com ([2607:fc50:0:7900:0:dead:beef:cafe]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u5sm1591297qtj.95.2019.05.15.10.52.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 May 2019 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 10:52:57 -0700 From: Gordon Tetlow To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Matt Garber , Will Andrews , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Core Team , FreeBSD Stable ML , Alan Somers Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. Message-ID: <20190515175257.GC33157@gmail.com> References: <6CE35CEB-C2AB-47B1-AA86-BC9C91B2B8A6@gmail.com> <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 34A9C97821 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.989,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 15 May 2019 18:43:43 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 17:53:03 -0000 Hi. Your friendly neighborhood Security Officer here. I published the 5 advisories and 3 errata yesterday. On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 07:15:04PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Thanks Will, > You make some good points, but all depend on variant circustances. > > I prefer to be informed ASAP, to make my own decisons with max info ASAP, > Not delayed. I want freebsd.org to Not Delay fix announcements into batches. All but one of the fixes was already in the STABLE branches. So if you wanted to track something that would get things as immediate as possible, I would recommend looking at the STABLE branches, you just won't get freebsd-update bits there. Just to put a line in the sand here, I will always be batching advisories when it works in my judgement. Granted, this batch was larger than I wanted it to be; I ran out of time over the past couple of months to get everything together (real life and all getting in the way). There are two reasons I will batch: 1. Our users and the industry have a preference for batched updates. 2. There is a large upfront cost for getting the freebsd-update bits built. Meaning the time to do 1 advisory vs the time to do 8 makes it worthwhile to batch. No offense, but I value my time. I only have so much to devote to FreeBSD. > As soon as exploits are in the wild, some will exploit, > not announcing until binary updates are ready gives black hats more time. Welcome to the push/pull of dealing with security. It is a risk based decision, but I have the unenviable position of trying to make the best risk based decision for the entire community. By definition, not everyone will be happy with the decision. > PS Here seems (*) an example of something in text config didnt even > need to wait for src/ let alone bin. * Not sure, I'll try it later, > got to dash off line. > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/001878.html > ] IV. Workaround > ] Use 'restrict noquery' in the ntpd configuration to limit addresses that > ] can send mode 6 queries. I would note this is already the default config. Best regards, Gordon From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 23:45:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2F2B15A597E for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72E57672E for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 9792815A5979; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7382915A5978 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD2CC76728 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id d8so1119373lfb.8 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:45:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=multiplay-co-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WoYWoujmJ9Eb0/yRXHQhV1vbONqyQ2OQiKw/cYojH74=; b=DbfnqZAjF4HUI0XReIT1/HUBvNOYspmcYRn2FX0Zab7pUEyipPGdNQlqwAkB3njMHW aI1ztla8GIOY70WjjSj8rcltshttgM8h85nBwANqUgr1t6A+FtF55TqXWY36Nm3ujZbr L7JHXx8DDKk/JLSBeKH0CJmu+otzFBtBPPtrHMrsVQgNVcASttVLSjUIGFQFWjtWN8JN lr4WinGRuPhUQ8BDMOLTcA5LofW0qHQav+1p/SbYjO6oanmQIRXf42pMpHl7rk8FN96G 95iaS9Niks2xzwNO64ZRAlodJvKkiFBgsj6Agn0vPgEMBUsU3DlPMr6a0uku2huJnyl+ W9PA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WoYWoujmJ9Eb0/yRXHQhV1vbONqyQ2OQiKw/cYojH74=; b=Jj4Oo1chxET8oEJ5UVVlXX05J95Q64GaQAkXEpfWxrz+qZGRks2L9hnYf1+0h1NNBS YQU7DXhf7ODczi9O1d3kjZsXkKui/ZGN/L5zSSs7zCQPvYV7YA5dUkVYTqMPbJvjCpvV Fru04lp91N1eelsMgVk6KnjREThX5OyPlyuMxcYOIdRlQfuJTl4SUI8fSEdNGmErf6Qb uCMw4L2d0YfQAz5mLl2xmyX0Y0INPcjQIDVzwV/FqLkhMXZM6TRu5BIg+aGoRdoh4Dyg i4ck2rh6AHss7y0EOOkOQ5/t6pFtVrxJVGrBTtZCTOVEGsn4d4M5o22jXT4Gdfb3QrCE Kx1A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUClEz//hrX+ObomtfS2PuQp1NvLg4OI9Ev+DLPbH9p4fe8R+zf Cl5O4B8IgH9QUJzeBOeBCMVrAxIm6MhgYLIBigOajA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy/1qqvY8SjK/EMA6HnhqYT/DifwKK4HcD2LbmC0SzbXyVaVy18p/7WHYD8irokCNbfEGQ2BmDA3JUqS3wNIi0= X-Received: by 2002:a19:29c4:: with SMTP id p187mr21870236lfp.69.1557963941705; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:45:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Steven Hartland Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 00:45:29 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Core Team , FreeBSD Stable ML , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CD2CC76728 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.95 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.947,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:46 -0000 Is disagree, having them hatched causes us less work not more, as others have said one update not many, which result in one outage of systems that need patching not many. Regards Steve On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 16:48, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi, Reference: > > From: Alan Somers > > Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 08:32:26 -0600 > > Alan Somers wrote: > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:26 AM Julian H. Stacey > wrote: > > > > > > Hi core@, > > > cc hackers@ & stable@ > > > > > > PR headline : "FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins." > > > > > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/date.html > > > > > > Volunteers who contribute actual fixes are very much appreciated; > > > But those styled as 'management' who delay announcements to batch > floods > > > damage us. As they've previously refused to stop, it's time to sack > them. > > > > > > Just send each announcement out when ready, no delays to batch them. > > > No sys admins can deal with 8 in 3 mins: > > > Especially on multiple systems & releases. Recipients start > > > mitigating, then more flood in, & need review which are > > > most urgent to interrupt to; While also avoiding sudden upgrades > > > to many servers & releases, to minimise disturbing server users, > > > bosses & customers. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Julian > > > -- > > > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich > Aachen Kent > > > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in > EU. > > > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers > died. > > > > I disagree, Julian. I think SAs are easier to deal with when they're > > batched. True, I can't fix the first one in less than 3 minutes. But > > then I probably wouldn't even notice it that fast. Batching them all > > together means fewer updates and reboots. > > Batching also means some of these vulnerabilities could have been > fixed earlier & less of a surge of demand on recipient admins time. > > An admin can find time to ameliorate 1 bug, not 8 suddenly together. > Avoidance is called planning ahead. Giving warning of a workload. > Like an admin plans ahead & announces an outage schedule for planned > upgrade. > > Suddenly dumping 8 on admins causes overload on admin manpower. > 8 reason for users to approach admin in parallel & say > "FreeBSD seems riddled, how long will all the sudden unplanned > outages take ? Should we just dump it ?" > Dont want negative PR & lack of management. > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen > Kent > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers > died. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 00:30:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0CA15A733B for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 00:30:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0498480039 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 00:30:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id B754215A7339; Thu, 16 May 2019 00:30:33 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A57D215A7338; Thu, 16 May 2019 00:30:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from echo.brtsvcs.net (echo.brtsvcs.net [IPv6:2607:f740:c::4ae]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4839780036; Thu, 16 May 2019 00:30:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (chombo [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:ae1f:6bff:fe6b:9e1c]) by echo.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9639E38D09; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:5c80:9656:5574:b3a3] (unknown [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:5c80:9656:5574:b3a3]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CBEB02830; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: "Julian H. Stacey" , core@freebsd.org Cc: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org References: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Mel Pilgrim Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 17:30:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4839780036 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.989,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 16 May 2019 01:49:59 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 00:30:34 -0000 On 2019-05-15 7:25, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi core@, > cc hackers@ & stable@ > > PR headline : "FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins." > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/date.html > > Volunteers who contribute actual fixes are very much appreciated; > But those styled as 'management' who delay announcements to batch floods > damage us. As they've previously refused to stop, it's time to sack them. > > Just send each announcement out when ready, no delays to batch them. > No sys admins can deal with 8 in 3 mins: > Especially on multiple systems & releases. Recipients start > mitigating, then more flood in, & need review which are > most urgent to interrupt to; While also avoiding sudden upgrades > to many servers & releases, to minimise disturbing server users, > bosses & customers. Admins attentive to security issues will already be tracking CVEs for the software they use and mitigating or solving the vulnerability by all means available. By batching updates, FreeBSD is making administrative decisions for other people's systems. Some folks don't need to worry about scheduling downtime and will benefit from faster update availability. Folks who need to worry about scheduling downtime are already going to batch updates and should be allowed to make those decisions for themselves. Batched SAs help in neither case. Example: the ntpd CVE is more than two months old, and was rapidly fixed in ports. I was able to switch my systems to the ports ntpd during a scheduled downtime window in March instead of doing it this weekend. So not only did I benefit from the faster update availability, I was able to make my own decision about my own systems and significantly reduce my exposure. Don't be Microsoft. Don't sit on security updates. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 02:22:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E79C15A98E7 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:22:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDFC083DD1 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:22:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 8DDA615A98E5; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:22:56 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B35115A98E4; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:22:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x835.google.com (mail-qt1-x835.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::835]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0AB783DCF; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:22:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x835.google.com with SMTP id a17so2196227qth.3; Wed, 15 May 2019 19:22:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wBDoL9ETXLKGVdtsjswvUuCbh10DtPWEAWpeD+ykn3I=; b=j8G2OS84+odKhL6VrGkeQUo2HXia/Y2eEb/Kt8Uo4G/bBpBg/MpT0Kv4W8ejBE1h70 9Yo3+A3sqocioAka9Z0mma2CzV3sJ3vybcT7dzYnXMmAGbmdWQHhq8D4FeTm/Z9OVBoU n68FPU+UW/L3UQV/4vDuYj+Ba46IL+aqnl9qVsDKfzHKwgq5vlGz/tNUv7bZlODKF5dV WSlY2gbppHvEzIxwYAEh9maNyJMC87FMdWOO08xtxYPRj2ME7vxPiD8+p6vNLY7zo04W 47K0LtP4Z2TSTxtmR47C3FygLsL+e4tCJTpFP4DjvNdwHUF2QjNRG9blT7CJLRsmPVQz ZrNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wBDoL9ETXLKGVdtsjswvUuCbh10DtPWEAWpeD+ykn3I=; b=bNGBlynm0Zw524oFKyyXLLzdcFUjWDrHc2uvkCmH4dwEYeyvHlxRqJAI1waYoUsSJU EaMUgAWYuqoSsxDXeNBxxQH9TBRsN6X5VnbeRm2zgoap3Tydgn/XZKfqIc9cTMLcXXPH v3azEthTXGfTlUl1wxlYzaLFf8OGsKwRAwNahESWDExZgjdwUURZJ0cCX8GcKykeSVN5 ItpoXSoJngEUsX16iwCmg0ZDwg6p9ZJbe9KwyUXwViOQuCRG4hN5aHTDYJfQElhTB4RT UxXNu4+V0ydqOTeu6UMtJtwUwfc9WVcplEdY7OY3WMukehysz7M4RCmtNc8QgnFv5L0b zn3w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWLcwdQuMg2dA4svpwZf/RaNKDLrmNQN+rZzKNvJ/P2GWVqtC2a GUz4VsyrPFjH9Whh09FxqHi9i564QfV3BG52Sd0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxAvCqMMQ2XkzNyP8qBDy18kd7PRu2keHlBRMFh+FqTQXAN5zMKhIE4ZxbxSKX0YnBOV/5YqIhZ6doaOx8waAg= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:d941:: with SMTP id t1mr36664074qvj.204.1557973375152; Wed, 15 May 2019 19:22:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: From: Bill Sorenson Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 21:22:45 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: Mel Pilgrim Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , core@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: F0AB783DCF X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.96 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.965,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 02:22:57 -0000 > Admins attentive to security issues will already be tracking CVEs for > the software they use and mitigating or solving the vulnerability by all > means available. > > By batching updates, FreeBSD is making administrative decisions for > other people's systems. Some folks don't need to worry about scheduling > downtime and will benefit from faster update availability. Folks who > need to worry about scheduling downtime are already going to batch > updates and should be allowed to make those decisions for themselves. > Batched SAs help in neither case. > > Example: the ntpd CVE is more than two months old, and was rapidly fixed > in ports. I was able to switch my systems to the ports ntpd during a > scheduled downtime window in March instead of doing it this weekend. So > not only did I benefit from the faster update availability, I was able > to make my own decision about my own systems and significantly reduce my > exposure. > > Don't be Microsoft. Don't sit on security updates. I'm inclined to agree with this sentiment. I can sort of understand holding a SA for a week while waiting for another SA's embargo to end but beyond that I think the patches for Security Advisories should be made available as soon as practical. SysAdmins need to be smart enough to plan updating strategies, whether they can get away with patching quarterly, monthly, weekly, immediately, etc. It depends on the systems and the circumstances. I appreciate the SO's work, but in my opinion if a patch to a CVE makes it to STABLE it should be in the patch branch within a week or so unless issues are discovered (and depending on the severity of the issue maybe it should be pushed anyway with caveats.) FreeBSD already makes a distinction between SAs and Errata unlike some other projects, I think that should factor into how they are delivered. Security Advisories should be made available quickly regardless of whether they are known the be exploited in the wild or we might as well just go the Linux route and call everything a 'bug fix' and not bother categorizing things at all. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 03:15:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEBAA15AAC7E for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:15:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B11C85F4C for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:15:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 25A9815AAC68; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:15:20 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02BC415AAC66; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:15:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x742.google.com (mail-qk1-x742.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::742]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77D3E85F44; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:15:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x742.google.com with SMTP id a132so1338154qkb.13; Wed, 15 May 2019 20:15:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Kk6MKPCZhUgEySkC0hBC92tUyiSFb4lVIMPOQTE2WVE=; b=cQ2lPOX2Mfmel71b8bROf5Y41qQx9y9uSkHXW9Qc4WfYbfTmuzJOM1DwGwULOZt2wZ iE+iyUJUgBbUW1OORsQjojO/u01vpuUFIOLuB0Bp4/qEgKkFo2id22hETN/3QSVSDHmb Dm1eEO1ieEzOAy25PGVKqN8lXJafHvsp/jFw5hzjgIL01CvHT2szqR8LCZP6gNfI9lIB sIMibq97t/Rk/GPoiPUTHWGkhoCJ01hA3vSskTvHUKQvNHwMRg08UUvTkXvATY1QqyHG UAkhl4jsF5yRjkHWdwy3FVUC887NMI+LMFqyKQEHlviBXkWPBLC+4EcwEZ8/kS/GPVMM +u4g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Kk6MKPCZhUgEySkC0hBC92tUyiSFb4lVIMPOQTE2WVE=; b=A5gDJIcc1wrSHc89ho96RN4Z0XmzR0Gsbnwx/TKRwV6n8X68SYz1ooVwNgF+k4S99e HlVNEesxjI6kBNBH/F1tkoozJD0wf8b5PUnWRitWBKM1NyzGWwUsm2uePFnW693xpN8I O4ZNuV/dg6On0CCdRrpQV0VxK5HnVmR18EvxguPzpQNtax2TZBda2Q0bcF3Tvov87g3y C+Ge+DMMd1GMcVh801eRcXVp1yzMztkImYgqxkTTQvKN3fB1HXBUbKMGsWl1ayCRYIeU Twj39DIbpKifSEUK3QxZkIsuGYwd56z00m8oRhlIpmPDL234Xp48MCMImStouFsrQyuY mQsg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUrcnsm7KTrkxVEhqm5cwjb5C/Sefvbs+BPds+zgJjW7HbO5Z+H +XVxS+/SeqdnDecXGZ+beFgtK0ZS4jGjo459r4tBlNx6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzVbKH8WeDVT0UVaxRkVNgrqVeHW5pB/M3urrxRF9TEJVl2u7TikfH3I5/xR7T6B09intWCeGA6yNykXx9bRLQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:b4c6:: with SMTP id d189mr36546789qkf.173.1557976518928; Wed, 15 May 2019 20:15:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: From: Bill Sorenson Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 22:15:08 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: Matt Garber Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , Mel Pilgrim , core@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 77D3E85F44 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.969,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:15:21 -0000 > I=E2=80=99m not sure what you meant about Linux distros not categorizing = fixes, though =E2=80=94 with some notable exceptions, most of the big ones = certainly tag security fixes >separately, which is what allows `unattended-= upgrades` on Debian/Ubuntu based systems (and `yum-cron` on RHEL) to work s= o nicely automatically as scheduled on > *only* security errata, while leav= ing all other types of updates alone for admin intervention. My comment about Linux was not in regards to any particular distro, they al= l have interesting policies of varying effectiveness when it comes to release engineering, but specifically about the Linux kernel team (Torvalds Et al,) which last I checked had a policy of specifically not handling security iss= ues any different from any generic bug. Distros may do their own kernel release engineering and handling that themselves which is fine. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 02:53:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC26D15AA30F for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:52:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4616784F2D for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:52:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 0981715AA30C; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:52:59 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97E115AA30B; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:52:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82c.google.com (mail-qt1-x82c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BB5E84F23; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:52:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82c.google.com with SMTP id d13so2234490qth.5; Wed, 15 May 2019 19:52:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=O1k/hdGvverXmfo/LcfqRE2On8EaDRUEEDoqpA+503c=; b=fBbWbUs3or66X3yu9LW0m0KF6xYQzXMrm9GkRW/YX3vrEl8sPnKPzmNbon8n1OqxwV GycF5ZJjNg7MEZD4IUfF2H6g069oRxCDRaE/+14xu/5XDe5+6YSVxSCQv3OvTBBp33Qh KtvuIh/ovS2OgqnFdqBQQsHjyXCQKd14gtM+ebg6L+EBqbDWQjAMKmr6Tw0EuYCrQ5D9 BdQKGqd7f/t5pDCwFg8f11+wf1mdhyiOvBain8VmG81cTKsJAwtNvPhC9E4MfeaJxjid hZUCk84V6cvNnueyjt7q5tZNefI+047Ui4u2IO+GsJUx5Yt2wOPiEBhzd6uSHGpGDzI5 IdKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=O1k/hdGvverXmfo/LcfqRE2On8EaDRUEEDoqpA+503c=; b=tolmfI5afI+l6cppzI9ADeJF4LqFiCzMzhY3PupCgqJuPdUyD2+3XrxGpFcXV0M6cI 0MGML96/rnERn87keqH+pfImWNi90hm2NNZN/CTmpZNXfvEK85zTiJcqIbcMg3lZH0jd uhrYeCXeBM/ZC/eh+Z41t5g8gSvvrIabAqV3yFPViFdqPXE4HPCBzbj9Aoo//89OlFkm eNq9hXPl7QBFq1sOTdce7Abj7P8KJjGjPa+fW00Ox7pCZ+MVv0TDSWlf2DrwuKHtuny4 ZUpIUMfFx1k6+srWkFp02x5D6mrWfwOVaey2qKze7VpGzhfHumSexDhNDSsfvXUjLXGR igeA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXJWcRxVCpUGD7MCMscpxMKUp0764D5d8XgnKmuhDuzF4EPumOX 90N5nj1VWsibUQEvhmswUsB6keLW9sI/GJfGWn8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxhD43BDwic9gN2kZgMcZb0UWbONCUDXyeCfe7vK27wkuCW6hKV9GXtJ07CeUKvPtHR0keuC25Rw26TVkYiDI8= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9350:: with SMTP id e16mr35026920qve.119.1557975178032; Wed, 15 May 2019 19:52:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: From: Matt Garber Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 22:52:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: Bill Sorenson Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , Mel Pilgrim , core@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7BB5E84F23 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.96 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.965,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:18:45 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 02:53:00 -0000 On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:28 PM Bill Sorenson wrote: > > Admins attentive to security issues will already be tracking CVEs for > > the software they use and mitigating or solving the vulnerability by al= l > > means available. > > > > By batching updates, FreeBSD is making administrative decisions for > > other people's systems. Some folks don't need to worry about schedulin= g > > downtime and will benefit from faster update availability. Folks who > > need to worry about scheduling downtime are already going to batch > > updates and should be allowed to make those decisions for themselves. > > Batched SAs help in neither case. > > > > Example: the ntpd CVE is more than two months old, and was rapidly fixe= d > > in ports. I was able to switch my systems to the ports ntpd during a > > scheduled downtime window in March instead of doing it this weekend. S= o > > not only did I benefit from the faster update availability, I was able > > to make my own decision about my own systems and significantly reduce m= y > > exposure. > > > > Don't be Microsoft. Don't sit on security updates. > > I'm inclined to agree with this sentiment. I can sort of understand > holding a SA > for a week while waiting for another SA's embargo to end but beyond that = I > think > the patches for Security Advisories should be made available as soon as > practical. SysAdmins need to be smart enough to plan updating strategies, > whether they can get away with patching quarterly, monthly, weekly, > immediately, > etc. It depends on the systems and the circumstances. I appreciate the SO= 's > work, but in my opinion if a patch to a CVE makes it to STABLE it should > be in > the patch branch within a week or so unless issues are discovered (and > depending > on the severity of the issue maybe it should be pushed anyway with > caveats.) > > FreeBSD already makes a distinction between SAs and Errata unlike some > other > projects, I think that should factor into how they are delivered. > Security Advisories should be made available quickly regardless of whethe= r > they > are known the be exploited in the wild or we might as well just go the > Linux > route and call everything a 'bug fix' and not bother categorizing things > at all. I=E2=80=99m certainly not advocating holding on to SAs for an extended peri= od of time, either: if something like the ntpd fix takes a long time to roll out on a consistent basis, maybe that=E2=80=99s rationale for the separate disc= ussion of further shrinking the base system (?), since what=E2=80=99s =E2=80=98bes= t=E2=80=99 for the majority of users in that scenario is probably getting that patched via packages/ports in days, not weeks (or months). However, I otherwise don=E2=80=99t find anything objectionable to releasing= several ENs or SAs at once, assuming they were close in time anyway. E.g., I think it=E2=80=99s perfectly sane to publish 4-5 advisories/notices at once on a = Thursday rather than one on Monday, one on Tuesday, two on Wednesday, etc., especially since we don=E2=80=99t yet have pkg base, and it fits the model = of RELEASE-pX to RELEASE-pY bundling those up. I=E2=80=99m not sure what you meant about Linux distros not categorizing fi= xes, though =E2=80=94 with some notable exceptions, most of the big ones certain= ly tag security fixes separately, which is what allows `unattended-upgrades` on Debian/Ubuntu based systems (and `yum-cron` on RHEL) to work so nicely automatically as scheduled on *only* security errata, while leaving all other types of updates alone for admin intervention. =E2=80=94 Matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 08:24:33 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD26158877C for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:24:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from mailhost.netlabit.sk (mailhost.netlabit.sk [84.245.65.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F1A88F215 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:24:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from zeta.dino.sk (fw3.dino.sk [84.245.95.254]) (AUTH: LOGIN milan) by mailhost.netlabit.sk with ESMTPA; Thu, 16 May 2019 10:19:21 +0200 id 00F40588.5CDD1D09.00016A39 Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 10:19:21 +0200 From: Milan Obuch To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any WAFER-BT users? Message-ID: <20190516101921.7bfa267e@zeta.dino.sk> In-Reply-To: <20190507095210.66681691@zeta.dino.sk> References: <20190409103256.5d095bb5@zeta.dino.sk> <20190415143849.0f09eb91@zeta.dino.sk> <20190415210235.75bc4165@zeta.dino.sk> <20190416092724.242e93d3@zeta.dino.sk> <20190507095210.66681691@zeta.dino.sk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i386-portbld-freebsd11.2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2F1A88F215 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-hackers@dino.sk designates 84.245.65.72 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-hackers@dino.sk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.92 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dino.sk]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.dino.sk]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.76)[-0.759,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[72.65.245.84.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.85)[ip: (-6.24), ipnet: 84.245.64.0/18(-3.12), asn: 16160(0.02), country: SK(0.08)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16160, ipnet:84.245.64.0/18, country:SK]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 08:24:33 -0000 On Tue, 7 May 2019 09:52:10 +0200 Milan Obuch wrote: > On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:27:24 +0200 > Milan Obuch wrote: > [ snip ] > > So after some time and testing I'm back here. > > I have freshly built r347177 and no change, i. e. loader works with > USB keyboard and VGA, after starting kernel output switches to serial > port, giving just > > VT: init without driver. > > However, adding > > kern.vty=sc > > into /boot/loader.conf changes things and video console works again. > So I think probably problem is in vt_vga module not recognising > CPU/VGA in > > CPU: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N2807 @ 1.58GHz (1583.38-MHz 686-class > CPU) > > (I think it is integrated here), even if it is probed later (dmesg > shows > > vgapci0: port 0xe080-0xe087 mem > 0xd0000000-0xd03fffff,0xc0000000-0xcfffffff irq 16 at device 2.0 on > pci0 vgapci0: Boot video device > > and this assignment is seen in pciconf output too, so device is > somehow detected). > I found another way to enable VGA - adding line hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 into /boot/loader.conf made kernel to use VGA and keyboard as console with vt. It works with installation media as well, i. e. GENERIC kernel. I am not yet able to use VGA with X with FullHD resolution. I can use X with vesa video only, which makes maximum resolution 1024x768. Just to share my finding... Milan From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 08:43:37 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513D5158A3F9 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:43:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [176.58.89.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62971682C1 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:43:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from cid.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454Q1f1ZW0zDk4n; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:43:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=daemonic.se; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-language:content-type :content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date:date :message-id:from:from:references:subject:subject:received :received; s=20151023; t=1557996213; bh=Iynfz5fUxo3RYuvTXm+aLTW+ UfCck3OH11LqhpFe1ro=; b=VivK0GdahOcNkND9I+57y/J/zXCVOQefnUcigz0M j/1ihlC2vW8tX82xEZYF0LnIH5wyLDfKQHHNLITiKHt3SB/eCxpda8brDfJqPfj3 8ODVSMqcqC90tx+8+uu+8koRJpCOga7kjKcstlMBEsDJe/Y0TRytg8fTbiUYp1HP q4c= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mail.daemonic.se ([IPv6:::1]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256) by cid.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10587) with ESMTPS id cwr2Xv7F5weQ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:43:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from garnet.daemonic.se (host-90-236-183-53.mobileonline.telia.com [90.236.183.53]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 454Q1d38GCzDjp8; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:43:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Any WAFER-BT users? To: Milan Obuch , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20190409103256.5d095bb5@zeta.dino.sk> <20190415143849.0f09eb91@zeta.dino.sk> <20190415210235.75bc4165@zeta.dino.sk> <20190416092724.242e93d3@zeta.dino.sk> <20190507095210.66681691@zeta.dino.sk> <20190516101921.7bfa267e@zeta.dino.sk> From: Niclas Zeising Message-ID: <3ee95478-aa31-450e-efdd-daa500de6032@daemonic.se> Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 10:43:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190516101921.7bfa267e@zeta.dino.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 62971682C1 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=daemonic.se header.s=20151023 header.b=VivK0Gda; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=daemonic.se; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of zeising@daemonic.se designates 176.58.89.161 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zeising@daemonic.se X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.74 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[daemonic.se:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.daemonic.se]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[daemonic.se,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[53.183.236.90.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:176.58.89.0/24, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[daemonic.se:s=20151023]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[daemonic.se.multi.uribl.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-3.73)[ip: (-9.81), ipnet: 176.58.89.0/24(-4.90), asn: 36236(-3.89), country: US(-0.06)]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 08:43:37 -0000 On 2019-05-16 10:19, Milan Obuch wrote: > On Tue, 7 May 2019 09:52:10 +0200 > Milan Obuch wrote: > >> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:27:24 +0200 >> Milan Obuch wrote: >> > > [ snip ] > >> >> So after some time and testing I'm back here. >> >> I have freshly built r347177 and no change, i. e. loader works with >> USB keyboard and VGA, after starting kernel output switches to serial >> port, giving just >> >> VT: init without driver. >> >> However, adding >> >> kern.vty=sc >> >> into /boot/loader.conf changes things and video console works again. >> So I think probably problem is in vt_vga module not recognising >> CPU/VGA in >> >> CPU: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N2807 @ 1.58GHz (1583.38-MHz 686-class >> CPU) >> >> (I think it is integrated here), even if it is probed later (dmesg >> shows >> >> vgapci0: port 0xe080-0xe087 mem >> 0xd0000000-0xd03fffff,0xc0000000-0xcfffffff irq 16 at device 2.0 on >> pci0 vgapci0: Boot video device >> >> and this assignment is seen in pciconf output too, so device is >> somehow detected). >> > > I found another way to enable VGA - adding line > > hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 > > into /boot/loader.conf made kernel to use VGA and keyboard as console > with vt. It works with installation media as well, i. e. GENERIC kernel. > I am not yet able to use VGA with X with FullHD resolution. I can use X > with vesa video only, which makes maximum resolution 1024x768. > > Just to share my finding... > Hi! Just a wild guess here, perhaps something isn't setting up the framebuffer used for UEFI correctly? With regards to X, try installing drm-kmod and follow the instructions, that should give you accelerated video (granted that it's a build in intel graphics card, and that it's supported). Regards -- Niclas From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 08:47:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53A10158A750 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:47:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) Received: from mailomat.net (mailomat.net [81.20.89.254]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "f-1.mailomat.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C256469B37 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:47:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) X-Mailomat-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Mailomat-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=D8IFEbZj c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=HFNmqc2D4Ajk0Xq8MP/kQw==:117 a=HFNmqc2D4Ajk0Xq8MP/kQw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=E5NmQfObTbMA:10 a=DR232A0G1di_tYqemIIA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=-oqPN8YnlSdngR8uVaoA:9 a=OC-UA60Um_eDYHvy:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 X-Mailomat-SpamCatcher-Score: 13 [X] (100%) BODY: contains custom phrases Received: from [194.39.192.116] (account bnc-mail@mailrelay.mailomat.net HELO bnc.net) by mailomat.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.12) with ESMTPSA id 99492289 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:47:47 +0000 X-Junk-Score: 13 [X] X-SpamCatcher-Score: 13 [X] X-BNC-Spam-Marker: [[X]] Received: from [192.168.200.171] (account ap@bnc.net HELO work) by bnc.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.4) with ESMTPSA id 8358708 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 10:47:47 +0200 Message-ID: <77e2f17fe5c1acf5a64cdebf0f28eb10d2802a5b.camel@bnc.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. From: Achim Patzner To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 10:47:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.2 (3.32.2-1.fc30) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C256469B37 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.990,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 08:47:53 -0000 On 20190515 at 19:15 +0200 Julian H. Stacey wrote: > I prefer to be informed ASAP, to make my own decisons with max info ASAP, You might want to learn to speak for yourself instead of making general assumtions on how the rest of the world has to work. > MS make lots of money from the addicted cluless, despite MS loosers You might wipe the foam from your mouth and stop giving FreeBSD users a bad name by behaving like a dumb zealot. This is kindergarten level of uncalled-for behaviour. Achim Patzner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 09:12:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F79158BD57 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 09:12:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from mailhost.netlabit.sk (mailhost.netlabit.sk [84.245.65.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED3666B743 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 09:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from zeta.dino.sk (fw3.dino.sk [84.245.95.254]) (AUTH: LOGIN milan) by mailhost.netlabit.sk with ESMTPA; Thu, 16 May 2019 11:12:41 +0200 id 00F405E2.5CDD2989.00017173 Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 11:12:41 +0200 From: Milan Obuch To: Niclas Zeising Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any WAFER-BT users? Message-ID: <20190516111206.477ff9c9@zeta.dino.sk> In-Reply-To: <3ee95478-aa31-450e-efdd-daa500de6032@daemonic.se> References: <20190409103256.5d095bb5@zeta.dino.sk> <20190415143849.0f09eb91@zeta.dino.sk> <20190415210235.75bc4165@zeta.dino.sk> <20190416092724.242e93d3@zeta.dino.sk> <20190507095210.66681691@zeta.dino.sk> <20190516101921.7bfa267e@zeta.dino.sk> <3ee95478-aa31-450e-efdd-daa500de6032@daemonic.se> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i386-portbld-freebsd11.2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: ED3666B743 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-hackers@dino.sk designates 84.245.65.72 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-hackers@dino.sk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.02 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dino.sk]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.dino.sk]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[72.65.245.84.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.972,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16160, ipnet:84.245.64.0/18, country:SK]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-1.74)[ip: (-5.87), ipnet: 84.245.64.0/18(-2.93), asn: 16160(0.02), country: SK(0.08)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 09:12:45 -0000 On Thu, 16 May 2019 10:43:32 +0200 Niclas Zeising wrote: > On 2019-05-16 10:19, Milan Obuch wrote: [ snip ] > > I found another way to enable VGA - adding line > > > > hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 > > > > into /boot/loader.conf made kernel to use VGA and keyboard as > > console with vt. It works with installation media as well, i. e. > > GENERIC kernel. I am not yet able to use VGA with X with FullHD > > resolution. I can use X with vesa video only, which makes maximum > > resolution 1024x768. > > > > Just to share my finding... > > > > Hi! > Just a wild guess here, perhaps something isn't setting up the > framebuffer used for UEFI correctly? > Maybe, question is how can I know and how to fix the problem not yet known. I am backing up my work now and planning fresh install, just in case - I had originally disabled UEFI boot in BIOS, which could be the cause, and simply enabling it did not help. > With regards to X, try installing drm-kmod and follow the > instructions, that should give you accelerated video (granted that > it's a build in intel graphics card, and that it's supported). > Well, it looks like Bay Trail CPUs are not supported currently, at least according our wiki page. I am asking about this on freebsd-x11 mailing list just now, where this could be addressed better. Regards, Milan From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 03:23:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D51F15AB54E for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F5D868BA for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 642E815AB54C; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:55 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415B815AB54B; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D87C7868B8; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id o7so2302467qtp.4; Wed, 15 May 2019 20:23:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eosGjJKUvnWD7Y4dtTPgAVwkCwzhMAQ9n0cCm1YYzio=; b=FOKT7hVAYUBelQEYP2zQpREIpiHIoqj2INWhhiYxRSAPPLQ37X2BouMjx50mlAl1Po uEBaO6pgyJuvsCzOuuADp0nbQMAGH5veF/Ougc81mMMh36kiJcf48jnzk9s4coviZ5vM Ww8ZkyXT7tYNPp/1iYFijOeq+yjv7G6CaAUPxlQhH0P9Iiqey5Ct1Z8xXe0qA+dD5wLJ dXYCLcFmUPpx8BazK2CSxIf2rkRJmIes/HoxwnErPck6Kulw5TjKfQC6icNKp/mTbJdq kI6jXhOPzbgHPxMv2E9g2I3uYLK/k8qVslsLAv6JfK4grlxYSf3YFwjTjx9EHjetq9zr XpHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eosGjJKUvnWD7Y4dtTPgAVwkCwzhMAQ9n0cCm1YYzio=; b=Ew894k/t0nET1BRaoVVEWK/CR31dR+T2rZJak8nCCvpl/hzy0Q8DCjaFFjeS6m0866 g+y4MECZtA8NsnGZxlMJtNC4F48HPa/4dNtn2GDdBaXhml+t/elc1dp/B6vZpuhP+r+G +j0RhX1/Z+li5g90W088plMG4IDeStqp/qmtU+z+tqRuFfU7BERFRne0o0zAmtqagA3P tXf26NKYOb+4MajMxcsGd33xi+1lexRMVQMbN581+vfd+xFLWhV9CZHlLPqgPao/DzVV GrFNmfzzR4X5x+8quzzND3jhh+BVjCKRUnVbDQ/zGbTCjFHEiZj8no1O/DwG1nMRlrBb IyXw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXPukhvtXN1v4WyUF1eghdxlpEypVBswxOc8SnvIa77LPzEVt4p YymZRJT/0R+uPCahvP5P2tVVV/ACF1FCBhc1zG4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy4R2UuQaN+6HyLOvZGi2viBg/oQ2062FCIZpiDx0WAk96GobmB5OGkZFcJdBN0cwVxpN0VkLHLbdzXcnKx4jQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4a14:: with SMTP id x20mr39849953qtq.233.1557977034547; Wed, 15 May 2019 20:23:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: From: Matt Garber Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 23:23:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: Bill Sorenson Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , Mel Pilgrim , core@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D87C7868B8 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.971,0]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 16 May 2019 10:44:30 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:56 -0000 On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:15 PM Bill Sorenson wrote: > > I=E2=80=99m not sure what you meant about Linux distros not categorizin= g fixes, > though =E2=80=94 with some notable exceptions, most of the big ones certa= inly tag > security fixes >separately, which is what allows `unattended-upgrades` on > Debian/Ubuntu based systems (and `yum-cron` on RHEL) to work so nicely > automatically as scheduled on > *only* security errata, while leaving all > other types of updates alone for admin intervention. > > My comment about Linux was not in regards to any particular distro, they > all > have interesting policies of varying effectiveness when it comes to relea= se > engineering, but specifically about the Linux kernel team (Torvalds Et al= ,) > which last I checked had a policy of specifically not handling security > issues > any different from any generic bug. Distros may do their own kernel relea= se > engineering and handling that themselves which is fine. Understood, yep, that historical stance in the kernel itself has really sucked and does no one any favors with =E2=80=98everything is just a bug.= =E2=80=99 Thankfully the kernel self-protection project has made some significant strides in that area, even if the overall security attitude of maintainers has been slower to positive change than would be ideal. =E2=80=94 Matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 13:06:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5174D1595F61 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 13:06:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 467A97554F for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 13:06:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: by sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A5D6516054; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:06:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 15:06:03 +0200 From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Achim Patzner Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. Message-ID: <20190516130603.KFP-4%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: <77e2f17fe5c1acf5a64cdebf0f28eb10d2802a5b.camel@bnc.net> References: <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> <77e2f17fe5c1acf5a64cdebf0f28eb10d2802a5b.camel@bnc.net> Mail-Followup-To: Achim Patzner , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.13-dirty OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 467A97554F X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of steffen@sdaoden.eu designates 217.144.132.164 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=steffen@sdaoden.eu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.963,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.80)[-0.805,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sdaoden.eu]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.30)[0.299,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[sdaoden.eu]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.00)[country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15987, ipnet:217.144.128.0/20, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 13:06:13 -0000 Achim Patzner wrote in <77e2f17fe5c1acf5a64cdebf0f28eb10d2802a5b.camel@b\ nc.net>: |On 20190515 at 19:15 +0200 Julian H. Stacey wrote: |> I prefer to be informed ASAP, to make my own decisons with max info ASAP, | |You might want to learn to speak for yourself instead of making general |assumtions on how the rest of the world has to work. Has anyone on this thread ever mentioned the possibility of some short abstract be send first, as in "[notice][abstract][11.1] 8 updates to be expected", or something. To satisfy the (occasionally) nervous electric kind, female or not. Only to have mentioned something solutionific. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 13:34:30 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A85E1596E72 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 13:34:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: from aurora.gregv.net (aurora.gregv.net [192.111.144.138]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7C876BD1 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 13:34:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: by aurora.gregv.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A4BF461FAC; Thu, 16 May 2019 09:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 09:34:17 -0400 From: Greg Veldman To: Achim Patzner , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. Message-ID: <20190516133417.GH42338@aurora.gregv.net> References: <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> <77e2f17fe5c1acf5a64cdebf0f28eb10d2802a5b.camel@bnc.net> <20190516130603.KFP-4%steffen@sdaoden.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190516130603.KFP-4%steffen@sdaoden.eu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4C7C876BD1 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gregv.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.993,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.gregv.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.997,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:31863, ipnet:192.111.144.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.75)[ipnet: 192.111.144.0/20(1.36), asn: 31863(2.44), country: US(-0.06)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 13:34:30 -0000 On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 03:06:03PM +0200, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: > Has anyone on this thread ever mentioned the possibility of some > short abstract be send first, as in "[notice][abstract][11.1] > 8 updates to be expected", or something. Yes. I did, yesterday[1]. :-) [1] https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2019-May/054595.html -- Greg Veldman freebsd@gregv.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 15:03:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9721599455 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:03:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 151A48224A for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:03:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: by sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AD96D16054; Thu, 16 May 2019 17:03:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 17:03:51 +0200 From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Greg Veldman Cc: Achim Patzner , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. Message-ID: <20190516150351.qevpo%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: <20190516133417.GH42338@aurora.gregv.net> References: <201905151715.x4FHF4eC068579@fire.js.berklix.net> <77e2f17fe5c1acf5a64cdebf0f28eb10d2802a5b.camel@bnc.net> <20190516130603.KFP-4%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <20190516133417.GH42338@aurora.gregv.net> Mail-Followup-To: Greg Veldman , Achim Patzner , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.13-dirty OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 151A48224A X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of steffen@sdaoden.eu designates 217.144.132.164 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=steffen@sdaoden.eu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.48 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.877,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.969,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sdaoden.eu]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: sdaoden.eu]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.327,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.00)[country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15987, ipnet:217.144.128.0/20, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 15:03:56 -0000 Greg Veldman wrote in <20190516133417.GH42338@aurora.gregv.net>: |On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 03:06:03PM +0200, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: |> Has anyone on this thread ever mentioned the possibility of some |> short abstract be send first, as in "[notice][abstract][11.1] |> 8 updates to be expected", or something. | |Yes. I did, yesterday[1]. :-) | |[1] https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2019-May/054595.\ |html Indeed. Then i apologise. +.+ --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)