From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 02:15:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8648543DFAA for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 02:15:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Received: from havoc.proulx.com (havoc.proulx.com [96.88.95.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJhQM2Kfvz4QvC for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 02:15:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1AE497 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 20:15:31 -0600 (MDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proulx.com; s=dkim2048; t=1603592131; bh=surh8rqmoJbfRbDVDVCF7DWO7smQqVTVzniPZoEbcEw=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=ZFIusiIZ392Q7YHyR7ggLN5w/YUWXGbF8VGRgRnguzRJIonx8uOCykRz23IVq8vzz YHn6ev6CtvnUE6qv20DAHhr00Grmy1c23JI4aFsnj5Hq2iEoOkOreWn19XJ7xS+Kmf u61mqMBv11B7ZnSGVHeSJe1mhUhNfEgBkGuYCeM08BQ5loYr4fNgLkadrH/tiX1qo1 WWFJ48jCBCKXcFQBjOCDVntETnegddAMJYd606enxQvI6z4/859cF7jyA4G+U2fb43 2Ir3ijOS9bZstJtIpGPSeRnL/AD1mQF90wDYl3TCn4n6N+xCof1SFWFfFywZ6j3Dqs EcvTmQU4ZSalw== Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA9F21156 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 20:15:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 61C942DC9D; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 20:15:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 20:15:31 -0600 From: Bob Proulx To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are "who parameters"? (man 8 renice) Message-ID: <20201024195657878687952@bob.proulx.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CJhQM2Kfvz4QvC X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=proulx.com header.s=dkim2048 header.b=ZFIusiIZ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=proulx.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@proulx.com designates 96.88.95.61 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bob@proulx.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.74 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.034]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[proulx.com:s=dkim2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.982]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[proulx.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[proulx.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.73)[-0.727]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:96.64.0.0/11, country:US]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 02:15:40 -0000 Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wrote: > Can manual pages be more arcane and esoteric than this? Yes. But they don't know how! :-) However the wording on that man page days *way* back many, many years. It's very old. It appears to have arrived sometime between 2.9 BSD and 2.10 BSD sometime in the mid 1980's. Compare this 2.9.1 BSD man page: https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=renice&manpath=2.9.1+BSD With this 2.10 BSD man page: https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=renice&manpath=2.10+BSD > % man 8 renice > > https://man.bsd.lv/FreeBSD-12.0/renice The synopsys line is always useful. renice priority [[-p] pid ...] [[-g] pgrp ...] [[-u] user ...] renice -n increment [[-p] pid ...] [[-g] pgrp ...] [[-u] user ...] > "The following who parameters are interpreted as ..." > > "-g > Force who parameters to be interpreted as process group ID's." > > "-u > Force the who parameters to be interpreted as user names or user ID's" And then there is an example. Change the priority of process ID's 987 and 32, and all processes owned by users daemon and root. renice +1 987 -u daemon root -p 32 > "who" is underlined. Is it an acronym? I've seen this mentioned only in this > man page on FreeBSD and NetBSD. I think the original intention one was always affecting *other* processes. Some other target. But back then one had a deeply emotional bond with processes before renicing them. First there was coffee and then later maybe dinner. Processes were humanized. They were not an "it" but a "who". And so the document is asking "who" is getting reniced? Who being what process. But here it is who is being reniced. And that is why it was worded that way. > The OpenBSD manual page seems to to be saner: > https://man.bsd.lv/renice For the most part newer manuals mostly do rewrite that considerably and now refer to those as process identifiers. Bob From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 05:50:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA543443A41 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 05:50:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJnBZ2ylVz4btR for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 05:50:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJnBN25WvzDsbP for ; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 22:50:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603605036; bh=H7X1pnokIjDKsTMUCw/Qpbtkj0Usd6kckq3Ox62XKO8=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=I2d3AXNcRh9neJOdJ91bHtzzASIqJvr7J8ry55lG6M2bahEeo6sU5qgzPuH9sFrjM MiFi3VIKdMCXZUnA1epNSIG2ed/7Xmk7+eTjhPMsTsHEpbqAg5iY4f+JPsyxN5xcht gCsg2MBz55zYgDKosmCFYz285ongRovuUeKzXZz4= X-Riseup-User-ID: 2697FEDB1F7D13BBE299476876B1D3AC1B1FE2D51CD19B2DFF0A81D7343BC716 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CJnBM5gNXzJqmm for ; Sat, 24 Oct 2020 22:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CJnBZ2ylVz4btR X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=I2d3AXNc; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.35 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.72)[-0.718]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.06)[-1.056]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.974]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 05:50:47 -0000 On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 11:10:10 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >bot swap drive bay On another mailing list a woman does use a selection switch thingy. I don't remember what it is called. The drives are on-board, but only a selected drive is connected and turned on. A hot swap drive bay inherits the risk of a damage by static electricity when changing drives. I also want to add for consideration, if reboots between operating systems are often wanted and HDDs are used, it's way better when all drives, even the unused drives are spinning all the time. Parking and releasing heads very often, does shorten the life span the most. If sharing data between operating systems is wanted, it requires organizational measures. Sometimes it's maybe wasting resources to use a separated drive. Btw. I once used GRUB (legacy or 2, I don't remember) to multi-boot between FreeBSD, Windows (98 and/or XP, I don't remember) and several Linux installs, on a BIOS machine (definitively no EFI secure whatsoever thingy). FreeBSD and Windows via chain loading. I never experienced an issue. Installing the operating systems was easy, too. Nowadays I'm using syslinux to boot between several Linux installs, FreeBSD is on an USB stick and apart from this I'm using iPads and Windows XP, 7 and 10 are running on a VirtualBox Linux host, which is a super advantage, if restoring a broken Windows is required ot to share data. In my experiences there never was an issue that one install messed up the other install or at least the boot loader. The real issue (when using different operating systems on one machine, as I've done in the past or the way I'm doing it at the moment, by using an USB stick and tablets) is, sharing data between operating systems. An example I'm experiencing at the moment. To share data between Linux and iPadOS I could use (ex)fat or hfs+. When storing the Linux data on (ex)fat partitions, permissions get lost, so (ex)fat is no option at all. Actually I'm using hfs+, so Linux can store permissions, but after the drive was used by iPadOS, under Linux I need to run fsck.hfsplus to gain write access, even if fsck.hfsplus just mentions, that everything is ok (and journaling is disabled), it seemingly repairs something without mentioning it. Without running fsck.hfsplus file system access is read only or results in an input/outout error. The new drive seems not to be broken. Maybe something is fishy with my USB 3 ports, OTOH I rarely experience USB issues, so I guess even the input/output errors are related to a file system inconsistency and not to a hardware related issue. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 08:45:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35CF4447B07 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 08:45:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane-mx.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.io (static.214.254.202.116.clients.your-server.de [116.202.254.214]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJs4T4VYBz3WJj for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 08:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane-mx.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kWbZq-000AGF-KT for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 09:40:34 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Ottavio Caruso Subject: Re: What are "who parameters"? (man 8 renice) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 08:40:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20201024195657878687952@bob.proulx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.1 In-Reply-To: <20201024195657878687952@bob.proulx.com> Content-Language: en-GB X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CJs4T4VYBz3WJj X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [8.04 / 15.00]; FORGED_MUA_THUNDERBIRD_MSGID_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.15)[-0.152]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[static.214.254.202.116.clients.your-server.de]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.18)[-0.185]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.38)[0.375]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; DMARC_POLICY_REJECT(2.00)[yahoo.com : SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM,reject]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,freebsd-questions@m.gmane-mx.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:116.202.0.0/16, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,freebsd-questions@m.gmane-mx.org]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 08:45:46 -0000 On 25/10/2020 02:15, Bob Proulx wrote: > For the most part newer manuals mostly do rewrite that considerably > and now refer to those as process identifiers. NetBSD renice(8) man page has been reworked recently: https://man.netbsd.org/renice.8 http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/usr.bin/renice/renice.8?rev=1.16&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&only_with_tag=MAIN -- Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 10:06:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190E1449862 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 10:06:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@jschneider.net) Received: from slave.jschneider.net (slave.jschneider.net [46.235.226.89]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJtsz2LV6z3ZSM for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 10:06:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@jschneider.net) X-Disposition: Mostly harlmess; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 10:06:33 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Jon Schneider Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: PHP-FPM processes hang in UFS-state Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 10:06:29 +0000 Message-Id: <650EF24A-7444-41BA-AAF1-EC9930F25710@jschneider.net> References: <675E2CFF-C45D-48C2-8E55-4E9876D5098A@cretaforce.gr> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <675E2CFF-C45D-48C2-8E55-4E9876D5098A@cretaforce.gr> To: Christos Chatzaras X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18A8395) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CJtsz2LV6z3ZSM X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@jschneider.net designates 46.235.226.89 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@jschneider.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.18 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.035]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:46.235.226.89]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[jschneider.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.975]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.37)[-0.366]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:44684, ipnet:46.235.224.0/21, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 10:06:48 -0000 I think this might be a job for DTrace which I don=E2=80=99t know enough to e= xactly what to do but you probably want to trace use of all those functions y= ou see in your traces and everything in UFS. Hint: do not send DTrace outpu= t to something on UFS ! You might also want to create a smaller test case to induce the problem qui= ckly. Be interesting to hear what you discover. Jon > On 24 Oct 2020, at 13:28, Christos Chatzaras wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThis issue happened in 3 different servers the last months. >=20 > Some PHP-FPM processes hang in UFS-state. >=20 > The websites that cause the hang are all Prestashop and it's related to th= eir var/cache files (I believe it happens when they clear the cache and the f= iles are regenerated). >=20 >=20 > This is a php-fpm process that hang: >=20 > procstat -kk 73548 >=20 > PID TID COMM TDNAME KSTACK > 73548 100630 php-fpm - mi_switch+0xe2 sleepq= _wait+0x2c sleeplk+0x185 lockmgr_xlock_hard+0x1f5 __lockmgr_args+0x2bf ffs_l= ock+0xa5 VOP_LOCK1_APV+0x7c _vn_lock+0x44 vget+0x4a vfs_hash_get+0xb0 ffs_vg= etf+0x3f softdep_sync_buf+0xbee ffs_syncvnode+0x26f ffs_truncate+0x71b ufs_d= irenter+0x5f8 ufs_makeinode+0x5fb ufs_create+0x34 VOP_CREATE_APV+0x76=20 >=20 >=20 > procstat -kk -a : >=20 > https://www.coderz.gr/ufs/procstat.txt >=20 >=20 > mount | grep home : >=20 > https://www.coderz.gr/ufs/mount.txt >=20 >=20 > dumpfs /dev/mirror/gm0p7 : >=20 > https://www.coderz.gr/ufs/dumpfs.txt >=20 >=20 > I have to force reboot the server as /home is not possible to clean unmoun= t. Then I run fsck which fixes some issues because of the unclean reboot. Th= en I run fsck again that shows no errors. Then I mount /home and first renam= e the cache folders and finally delete var/cache and allow it to regenerate p= restashop files. But the same issue happens again after few days. >=20 >=20 > Any idea how to troubleshoot it? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" >=20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 11:11:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D123D44B1E8 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:11:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@jschneider.net) Received: from slave.jschneider.net (slave.jschneider.net [46.235.226.89]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJwJL0wNGz3f3G for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:11:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@jschneider.net) X-Disposition: Mostly harlmess; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:11:10 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Jon Schneider Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: PHP-FPM processes hang in UFS-state Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:11:07 +0000 Message-Id: References: <675E2CFF-C45D-48C2-8E55-4E9876D5098A@cretaforce.gr> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <675E2CFF-C45D-48C2-8E55-4E9876D5098A@cretaforce.gr> To: Christos Chatzaras X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18A8395) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CJwJL0wNGz3f3G X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@jschneider.net designates 46.235.226.89 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@jschneider.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.034]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:46.235.226.89]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[jschneider.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.976]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.918]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:44684, ipnet:46.235.224.0/21, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:11:14 -0000 As well as debugging for production you could acknowledge UFS may have a pro= blem and user another filesystem. For example ZFS or as it=E2=80=99s a cache a (swap-backed) tmpfs. Jon From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 11:51:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2926444C35F for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:51:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJxBT6l3lz3yMD for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:51:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1603626672; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=xJfFX1OT4D81lwwl4tvHwTpvmCE=; b=QvjM8bBIWqBWthl7TtmQhVuUvQUaXxHCtspFQIUXIg4iEfYCSYtxk4qh4HX1bocX 9IWwycz8u1KRF7s2XHOS+HE8gysyXZ29tLnp6tNkT/FDf/4B4JWpIZt5aKyBtE1a 9msQhcUVOs/nRS565bqXArdIuHPfIy27NtodBqeR9vfu7wKmGAMdik3bFGgkygYo OahhJJw8irtDmKdkKh6CwUlwVKkJBkrXLUjcgaZau8OA9Fz6Y58x8V7l6opNi4+2 Kx5FMBDv14Gdle0c2fPX/eioJYHeVoZ8qDdIDSDLIi91H+pBcT3qE53Iwf/A+GB1 UdhtFrsc0MQ1vrJaotnUTA==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=OswxNB3t c=1 sm=1 tr=0 cx=a_idp_x a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=afefHYAZSVUA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=bBqXziUQAAAA:8 a=VNNRqciB3OqmmPm4EMcA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=BjKv_IHbNJvPKzgot4uq:22 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:10108] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 68/3A-38180-0B6659F5; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 07:51:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 07:51:12 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? In-Reply-To: <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 27.1 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CJxBT6l3lz3yMD X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=QvjM8bBI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.95 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.967]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com:dkim]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[69.168.97.78:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.82)[-0.820]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.06)[-1.060]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; INTRODUCTION(2.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[69.168.97.78:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:51:15 -0000 Ralf Mardorf writes: Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >bot swap drive bay > > A hot swap drive bay inherits the risk of a damage by static > electricity when changing drives. 1) A quality product should minimize that risk. 2) I have been using an external hot swap drive as backup for over a decade. _Never_ had problems I could reasonably attribute to static discharge. Respectfully, Robert Huff -- Hello ... my name is Coronavirus. You are not wearing a mask? Prepare to die! From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 12:54:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED93044E54E for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 12:54:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJyc16Y4yz41yB for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 12:54:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from capuchin.riseup.net (capuchin-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJybs5g82zFdwM for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 05:54:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603630489; bh=dTbDxwHAr+NO3XUUmwhIEExQy/b7ReIOS+66Jj1+c4I=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Yg0JUDgNJWbW4wzQX45ot5DMCjtm86YmMMHyNMWF929xaiGQJ05Vpd3SwDoDqANMJ r44qE5jlB3H8OmAtx+ek8S1Zx4BohlDpjOBkNhsE0yHLR6zsBjf6JJD8Aol3G9lENO ZpSQAKkuGngCiXsRux7Z2EC1VBPzpppoyUYrP+uE= X-Riseup-User-ID: D44F1722B28B12DF8DAC021AC3C13E6CDA38D299647AFD7A22BD3040D9C74916 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by capuchin.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CJybs0yBQz8tmj for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 05:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:54:37 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CJyc16Y4yz41yB X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=Yg0JUDgN; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.07 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.45)[-0.452]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.052]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.970]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 12:54:59 -0000 On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 07:51:12 -0400, Robert Huff wrote: >Ralf Mardorf writes: > >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >> >bot swap drive bay >> >> A hot swap drive bay inherits the risk of a damage by static >> electricity when changing drives. > > 1) A quality product should minimize that risk. This is less related to the used hot swap drive bay or disk, it's depends more on the clothes or flooring. IMO we shouldn't wear an antistatic wrist strap, unless the used gear is connected by galvanic isolation. I don't have my computer gear connected by isolating transformers and I don't trust fault current circuit breakers, so IMO wearing an antistatic wrist strap is not without a risk, let alone that it is annoying to put on an antistatic wrist strap, just to replace a disk. > 2) I have been using an external hot swap drive as backup for >over a decade. _Never_ had problems I could reasonably attribute >to static discharge. Actually static discharge never caused an issue for me, without ever wearing an antistatic wrist strap and apart from this I always had good luck with very good operating fault current circuit breakers. Nevertheless, you never know. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 12:55:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4538944E242; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 12:55:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (net-2-44-121-52.cust.vodafonedsl.it [2.44.121.52]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CJyc51VQFz425n; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 12:55:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 09PCso5q076774 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:54:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu Subject: Re: pkg upgrade and dependency From: Andrea Venturoli To: Mike Clarke , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, pkg@FreeBSD.org References: <1607868.MsCH1bHPGx@curlew> <512fee04-8da3-6070-a7b0-1fa584fd9f9b@netfence.it> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:54:50 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <512fee04-8da3-6070-a7b0-1fa584fd9f9b@netfence.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CJyc51VQFz425n X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=netfence.it; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ml@netfence.it designates 2.44.121.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ml@netfence.it X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.04 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:2.44.121.52]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.969]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.22)[-0.218]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[netfence.it,none]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.050]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30722, ipnet:2.44.0.0/16, country:IT]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions,pkg] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 12:55:02 -0000 On 10/23/20 11:28 AM, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > On 10/23/20 10:19 AM, Mike Clarke wrote: > >> It will only upgrade those dependencies for which there's a more >> recent version. > > Well, that should be obvious. > > However that seems to be a required condition, not a sufficient condition. > > There must be some sort of additional checks, as some dependencies which > were upgradable were left untouched. My situation is quite complex (with more than 500 ports installed, pendind perl version change, etc...), but here's a minimal example: > # pkg version |grep lynis > lynis-3.0.0 = > # pkg version | grep lsof > lsof-4.93.2_11,8 < > # pkg info -d lynis > lynis-3.0.0: > lsof-4.93.2_11,8 > # pkg info -r lsof > lsof-4.93.2_11,8: > lynis-3.0.0 > # pkg upgrade lynis > Updating custom repository catalogue... > custom repository is up to date. > All repositories are up to date. > Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) > Your packages are up to date. For the curious: > # pkg -d -d upgrade lynis > DBG(1)[32115]> pkg initialized > Updating custom repository catalogue... > DBG(1)[32115]> PkgRepo: verifying update for custom > DBG(1)[32115]> Pkgrepo, begin update of '/var/db/pkg/repo-custom.sqlite' > DBG(1)[32115]> Request to fetch https://poudriere.netfence.it:19996/121amd64-default/meta.conf > DBG(1)[32115]> opening libfetch fetcher > DBG(1)[32115]> Fetch > libfetch: connecting > DBG(1)[32115]> Fetch: fetching from: https://poudriere.netfence.it/121amd64-default/meta.conf with opts "i" > DBG(1)[32115]> Request to fetch https://poudriere.netfence.it:19996/121amd64-default/meta.txz > DBG(1)[32115]> opening libfetch fetcher > DBG(1)[32115]> Fetch > libfetch: connecting > DBG(1)[32115]> Fetch: fetching from: https://poudriere.netfence.it/121amd64-default/meta.txz with opts "i" > DBG(1)[32115]> Request to fetch https://poudriere.netfence.it:19996/121amd64-default/packagesite.txz > DBG(1)[32115]> opening libfetch fetcher > DBG(1)[32115]> Fetch > libfetch: connecting > DBG(1)[32115]> Fetch: fetching from: https://poudriere.netfence.it/121amd64-default/packagesite.txz with opts "i" > custom repository is up to date. > All repositories are up to date. > DBG(1)[32115]> want to get an advisory lock on a database > DBG(2)[32115]> Pkg> adding options: DOCS = on > DBG(2)[32115]> Pkg> adding options: DOCS = on > DBG(2)[32115]> Pkg> adding options: DOCS = on > DBG(2)[32115]> Pkg> adding options: DOCS = on > DBG(2)[32115]> universe: add new local pkg: pkg, (pkg-1.15.10:2$2$bttb1fthuk9dbc51q8ik4bb5a4fniq9wz8pznz1cch71npsohuoe4swtiygrsqhnom6hft3qjik5k3g1y67tezidzmbcbm7b4iu4axb) > DBG(2)[32115]> Pkg> adding options: DOCS = on > DBG(2)[32115]> Pkg> adding options: DOCS = on > DBG(2)[32115]> Pkg> adding options: DOCS = on > DBG(2)[32115]> universe: add new local pkg: lynis, (lynis-3.0.0:2$2$9oja9fuao15bdd161479ng1k6z8b7i69iffiicoqxdxg9tre1885jq1ouzmm9b4wik4wnx998646hbuspgo6btrdaucbnpt36oih6iy) > DBG(2)[32115]> cannot find variable dependency lsof > DBG(2)[32115]> cannot find any suitable dependency for lynis > DBG(1)[32115]> problem has no requests > DBG(2)[32115]> decided local pkg-2$2$bttb1fthuk9dbc51q8ik4bb5a4fniq9wz8pznz1cch71npsohuoe4swtiygrsqhnom6hft3qjik5k3g1y67tezidzmbcbm7b4iu4axb to install > DBG(2)[32115]> decided local lynis-2$2$9oja9fuao15bdd161479ng1k6z8b7i69iffiicoqxdxg9tre1885jq1ouzmm9b4wik4wnx998646hbuspgo6btrdaucbnpt36oih6iy to install > DBG(2)[32115]> solver: ignoring package pkg(2$2$bttb1fthuk9dbc51q8ik4bb5a4fniq9wz8pznz1cch71npsohuoe4swtiygrsqhnom6hft3qjik5k3g1y67tezidzmbcbm7b4iu4axb) as its state has not been changed > DBG(2)[32115]> solver: ignoring package lynis(2$2$9oja9fuao15bdd161479ng1k6z8b7i69iffiicoqxdxg9tre1885jq1ouzmm9b4wik4wnx998646hbuspgo6btrdaucbnpt36oih6iy) as its state has not been changed > Checking integrity...DBG(1)[32115]> check integrity for 0 items added > done (0 conflicting) > Your packages are up to date. > DBG(1)[32115]> release an advisory lock on a database Notice: > DBG(2)[32115]> cannot find variable dependency lsof > DBG(2)[32115]> cannot find any suitable dependency for lynis ??? What does this mean? Why does it happen? bye & Thanks av. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 15:33:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C0A54516F6 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:33:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CK26x0zsBz4Cdk for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:33:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.38.125]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MDygG-1keRnS12sG-009xvY; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 16:33:22 +0100 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:33:21 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-Id: <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ef0JAqt7xgdzvfkIqUXyZAU/1UI1O8Iz/uomYpjss+2UVP8alqd lm+APfplPxEsVSE2DU2uYZYeUiehN+5yXk4RsekPfFcXsgboXyT1ZheicfjLGrmsXVcmRtJ K4QuCS0NDgb2+eVqA5FBg7xuhc2cHZ0PwbDpyvV/dRTdEfVzq0B8HYOSQ4FEfNJWoVJuMn1 OrWr5hcjXK1+C6cI9di7A== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:lhQ9Ikr1Gv0=:HZ4DVbph+cf/PpXgSZaD3i ayWHIXxJn2k3Hd5h8xSb/EpM95wBLQ7FBMV7VTovEyHafEcRdBsjNP3IP7NBEq6LGgJl+WXto 6luM0F/HR510eaP0rZjB0I44+E6VdV1tBj8FmJOmNdALntj0vGI/fkh14jNQbMkwhYxoPrpq5 Y5IqlGBBzSvtDFDvgL3uUXYn2Oquedq/wY0dP2Chn2gebE4h4JO+z9iRDHeS0XRBfgSsJ+y+E dck2/RpzCAlbwZ6ZL0xyQdBgj/O2OsPv5/sZGV37e9H3XipEXOiAhz64d6CiqsGzy+gAhzOSa 0QJl1mThnGDbkz/POn67pQDpUilWM+/3Yv5tM/7CjePlBZ4FGiKq6Z1vTpcnOelkvIv64c3oV jYKyP6/64+GC6dtYnCp9Fa5Iu84clG/KsbJaJn1Dh6EHCNDRyDSoEHoyDpGYt X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CK26x0zsBz4Cdk X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.133) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.37 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.12.38.125:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.74)[-0.735]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.16)[0.157]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.55)[0.553]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.133:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.133:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:33:30 -0000 On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I also want to add for consideration, if reboots between operating > systems are often wanted and HDDs are used, it's way better when all > drives, even the unused drives are spinning all the time. Parking and > releasing heads very often, does shorten the life span the most. I don't know if this is still true, but in ye olden times, there was a distinction between "home PC disks" and "server disks", where each class preferred a certain way of use to achieve maximum lifetime: +--------------+----------------+--------------+ | home PC disk | likes | dislikes | +--------------+----------------+--------------+ | server disk | dislikes | likes | +--------------+----------------+--------------+ | being switched | running | | on and off | all the time | +----------------+--------------+ Probably modern disks tend to be more like server disks, even when being sold for and used in home PCs... :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 18:40:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4EEE455A48 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:40:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "www.holgerdanske.com", Issuer "www.holgerdanske.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CK6G86vWCz4PB5 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:40:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 (99-100-19-101.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net [99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:TLSv1.3:Kx=any:Au=any:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:39:49 -0700 Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> From: David Christensen Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:39:48 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CK6G86vWCz4PB5 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com has no SPF policy when checking 184.105.128.27) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.46)[0.456]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.73)[0.729]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.60)[0.598]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[holgerdanske.com]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:184.104.0.0/15, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:40:01 -0000 On 2020-10-25 05:54, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 07:51:12 -0400, Robert Huff wrote: >> Ralf Mardorf writes: >> >> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> >>> >bot swap drive bay >>> >>> A hot swap drive bay inherits the risk of a damage by static >>> electricity when changing drives. Computer disk drives, solid-state drives, flash drives, etc., are all ESD sensitive. ESD precautions should be taken whenever they are handled, regardless of mounting. >> 1) A quality product should minimize that risk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility > This is less related to the used hot swap drive bay or disk, it's > depends more on the clothes or flooring. +1 Also shoes, seat cushions, work surfaces, other equipment, other workers, etc.. > IMO we shouldn't wear > an antistatic wrist strap, unless the used gear is connected by galvanic > isolation. Please explain how galvanic isolation relates to electrostatic discharge mitigation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antistatic_device#Antistatic_wrist_strap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation > I don't have my computer gear connected by isolating > transformers Please provide a URL for an isolating transformer that can mitigate electrostatic discharge, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer > and I don't trust fault current circuit breakers, I agree that circuit breakers, ground-fault circuit interrupters, and arc-fault circuit interrupters will not mitigate electrostatic discharge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_breaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter Do you have some other kind of circuit breaker in mind? > so IMO > wearing an antistatic wrist strap is not without a risk, Please explain the risk(s) associate with antistatic wrist straps. David From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 19:47:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4E7456EED for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 19:47:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c5000500c195.57cc7f0146846d38d71ea64aa1aec767@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CK7mD68Gpz4RvW for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 19:47:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c5000500c195.57cc7f0146846d38d71ea64aa1aec767@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1603655256; x=1606247256; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=2MpxqReD6DIBIop4NYZNSzhv7DC+AV8f+zlNA85kJLg=; b=D6XTIlerkoPo+KnxYVj/vhCjgo3FlE+e9xg/LkfrLzEHC8DhTggN/12vNwZGtfyZFn79GsJ1cJbfp+aYgPiYtDYxm5XPXqRrrQawkWGve1i7hl23gRhYs8KKuFzyyJJhZoLydnlOJj2n8UNyEnJykM+FS7UCnqk1uiCzjUvBJ+8= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjNTAwMDUwMGMxOTUuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.3]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:47:29 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:46:55 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kWlzI-000JLq-Jj for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 19:47:32 +0000 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 19:47:32 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-Id: <20201025194732.89b4baab79673a434df7cdcb@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CK7mD68Gpz4RvW X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=D6XTIler; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c5000500c195.57cc7f0146846d38d71ea64aa1aec767@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c5000500c195.57cc7f0146846d38d71ea64aa1aec767@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.99 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.984]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.969]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.341]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c5000500c195.57cc7f0146846d38d71ea64aa1aec767@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c5000500c195.57cc7f0146846d38d71ea64aa1aec767@email-od.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 19:47:42 -0000 On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > A hot swap drive bay inherits the risk of a damage by static > electricity when changing drives. Pretty minimal risk IME - by the time you've opened the bay and pulled out the old drive you've discharged to ground (it's pretty much impossible not to touch grounded metal doing this) and as long as the replacement drive is to hand nothing is going to charge you up again. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 21:52:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2656459AFB for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:52:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKBXS63Tsz4Zdm for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:52:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKBXH0tcdzDqyn for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 14:52:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603662751; bh=xM4/TtAt1Fo4V2qOIkOaQDUS3FeD/pC2ItUlwEJaE80=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=rrBOvZqFpnkuYHlQgqCuAZOO5JXp34HwdpjQM+CAdj5CaGaGjRn8BR329tBBQNhoE oEGtikLhoASXRfrYHCaFJyHqENiUZS+cPgUzahUZM517JoRCmkiSQYOzu2WujRZOdx HmLiapprpgGd0SY/OCmVdWre22ZOrVCZj1rN6PJ8= X-Riseup-User-ID: 057B5CC2272098C002DFFD1FAA0736B584D4DD4B537214751BB69D9447245754 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CKBXG3MthzJqr6 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 14:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:52:15 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKBXS63Tsz4Zdm X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=rrBOvZqF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.47 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.902]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.968]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:52:41 -0000 On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:39:48 -0700, David Christensen wrote: >On 2020-10-25 05:54, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >Please explain how galvanic isolation relates to electrostatic >discharge mitigation. That's a misunderstanding. >Please explain the risk(s) associate with antistatic wrist straps. IMO it's a risk for a human being to wear an antistatic wrist strap, when getting in touch with gear that is connected to the mains. IMO if the gear isn't directly connected to the mains, because an isolating transformer grants galvanic isolation, an antistatic wrist strap isn't a risk for a human being. An antistatic wrist strap protects the gear against static charge, but might be risky for a human regarding potential equalization, assuming something should be fishy, such as a hot metal case. Once the human touches the hot metal case a fault current breaker should detect that something is missing, but galvanic isolation is way more secure than a breaker that probably is missing that something is missing. Actually the fault current breaker should already do it's job, when the metal case is hot, already before a human does touch it. If it doesn't, then touching the metal case might be dangerous with or without wearing an antistatic wrist strap. However, galvanic isolation is absolutely safe, unless getting in contact with both conductors, which is impossible in our scenario and even very unlikely when repairing gear. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 22:05:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CEFB459ED1 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:05:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKBqN3Xnqz4bCy for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:05:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKBpm4yWCzFfdw for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:05:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603663530; bh=tUU0b5p3zw4PORmNUW63rFGdTUSNCw6AHUTfoQJsd/c=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Q3xEX8LdL47fIaJTjrUT6Z12Yj7fgNpRAzSlf2uNQXqC6SaY5AtY4DcPmRYBlKRPp X/5tBNQu+takjv6WTX0QdPWqCfE+DBOYxwAyHZwFCOfJ9oNAFFM6l1QYlw7OoqErKj M1+Azs6KmRoJpm8Sqm4SwnYIY7Z3WGk+95IQiYJc= X-Riseup-User-ID: 6F979272CDFFF490AB09941F1FE21F7279DA502E407B20A458915E992018FD7E Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CKBpm07XvzJrBB for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:04:52 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? 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Good point. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 22:32:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C0045A7E4 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:32:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKCPy0X8Hz4chG for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:32:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from capuchin.riseup.net (capuchin-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKCPn58njzFfp1 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:31:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603665117; bh=hyutfoPeqvhQeIVuDYtv8YqKziYGoZF2sDGQAolwf6E=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=fRM3rjM+91jZC24e4KAs/znfvLoQRZv6i7T8rDrJLyWzj01Ult5QmdXAHB89yYmvB g5Nf6hHux5G/sWzLaTBtEtAEOEheqHxtxaYoSclMvzEH1/NGUMk+LzB65pYsO9nGLW IjOLePt1P1DxWp2kWG6OJ4izhbX9SnXh0TYfN0Q8= X-Riseup-User-ID: 15AA19B1CDF9DF679822FBA769DE6BE64AA150E486801D19E68F8E697BF96334 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by capuchin.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CKCPn02xwz8tlQ for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:31:45 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201025233145.03ae39b2@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKCPy0X8Hz4chG X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=fRM3rjM+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.69 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.12)[-1.122]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.971]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.991]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:32:06 -0000 PS: Electric guitars tend to have grounded strings, to make the guitarist's body a shield. This grounding might be provided by a guitar amp connected to different mains, than a mixing console's grounded metal case is connected to. It shouldn't matter, but it not that seldom does matter and I'm assuming that amp, cables, guitar and mixing console aren't broken. Somehow it seems to happen, that ground not that seldom is fishy. This is one of the reasons that makes me overcritical. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Oct 25 22:34:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B87E45AACB for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:34:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKCSS4XQZz4cr2 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:34:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from capuchin.riseup.net (capuchin-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKCSR2pP8zFfdw for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:34:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603665255; bh=7bfoSjlJBYl6QUlN87tyOb3WCwjh9M472nTkCnqy+2c=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=TwduvS46qYqydSPsbDa7+ThzyUkSzkzJqdYf0U5nqQYJvk6kxBK2buqYW7hQcPYSF kqAQ6rtgso3rXRPzRttqXfjOmOfCswlHdfyVUkBXOSXDBSVJtE+YYc6o+UueNvhLzG YqQ4DKHY9AuN3k951p6brnR2iUyjBv46dKIFeV5c= X-Riseup-User-ID: D4938CC9BF6CEBAFF002FB0B710DC53C6F43CAF1906979609916AC1B9FC14619 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by capuchin.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CKCSQ4y8cz8vR2 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 15:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:34:03 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201025233403.353a3361@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20201025233145.03ae39b2@archlinux> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> <20201025233145.03ae39b2@archlinux> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKCSS4XQZz4cr2 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=TwduvS46; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.69 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.12)[-1.123]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.971]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.991]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:34:17 -0000 On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:31:45 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >PS: > >Electric guitars tend to have grounded strings, to make the guitarist's >body a shield. This grounding might be provided by a guitar amp >connected to different mains, than a mixing console's grounded metal >case is connected to. It shouldn't matter, but it not that seldom does >matter and I'm assuming that amp, cables, guitar and mixing console >aren't broken. Somehow it seems to happen, that ground not that seldom >is fishy. This is one of the reasons that makes me overcritical. Oops, I forgot to mention it could matter, if the guitarist does touch the strings and the mixer at the same time. Why? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 00:14:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D8645C4C1 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:14:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Received: from havoc.proulx.com (havoc.proulx.com [96.88.95.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKFgq6mzmz4hjH for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:14:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86303A5 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:14:12 -0600 (MDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proulx.com; s=dkim2048; t=1603671252; bh=i7RgjXUHDFpKT7sHDxvuEbcwFP7OTb//1WAEn/zOwpI=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=dtc1xvGKsuvB2MXcywP/qmKwF4VZwiCSykLqwWHYakUn5P2Jj9BwKoP/uXaWblVlj bWW8t6ND6F3G5sI9Z2Z1f44qJDZp09csisnYY25AZcl5IA/piH5vH8zRIMSJ+GiwhC bQFVqJIm3qunNb3VWzkoFTWNDgDqWXZCPlMRCpv6oyA7XWsgihZ0klRW9aV2IF0QY6 UsG+WkF9GQN/69ergYKc6A0GL3uRNXvCffpRbOl2f9of6o+fIIWUu9rpEHIhJPrxZ/ fNEg6s6w9PUjdlkXMXiR0uIPqhTGN3EjlWcyYhzYiXGgZITpppeVjN58mZKO9dIyZe ttaTh2AGr0TlQ== Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1CFD21144 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 618CA2DC9D; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:14:12 -0600 From: Bob Proulx To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201025180627278760588@bob.proulx.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKFgq6mzmz4hjH X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=proulx.com header.s=dkim2048 header.b=dtc1xvGK; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=proulx.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@proulx.com designates 96.88.95.61 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bob@proulx.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.45 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[proulx.com:s=dkim2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.988]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[proulx.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[proulx.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.47)[-0.471]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:96.64.0.0/11, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:14:17 -0000 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >Please explain the risk(s) associate with antistatic wrist straps. > > IMO it's a risk for a human being to wear an antistatic wrist strap, > when getting in touch with gear that is connected to the mains. ESD wrist straps have a resistor in series to prevent exactly this problem from occurring. It's on the order of a 1 M ohm value. This protects the wearer in the event they touch live AC mains. (Meanwhile... I always preferred the heel straps myself.) Bob From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 01:51:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF4045E448 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:51:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [IPv6:2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "www.holgerdanske.com", Issuer "www.holgerdanske.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKHrT3vPgz4p70 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:51:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 (99-100-19-101.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net [99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:TLSv1.3:Kx=any:Au=any:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:51:45 -0700 Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> From: David Christensen Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:51:45 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKHrT3vPgz4p70 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com has no SPF policy when checking 2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.67 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.73)[0.728]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.44)[0.437]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.60)[0.603]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[holgerdanske.com]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:51:54 -0000 On 2020-10-25 14:52, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:39:48 -0700, David Christensen wrote: >> On 2020-10-25 05:54, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> Please explain how galvanic isolation relates to electrostatic >> discharge mitigation. > > That's a misunderstanding. > >> Please explain the risk(s) associate with antistatic wrist straps. > > IMO it's a risk for a human being to wear an antistatic wrist strap, > when getting in touch with gear that is connected to the mains. > > IMO if the gear isn't directly connected to the mains, because an > isolating transformer grants galvanic isolation, an antistatic wrist > strap isn't a risk for a human being. > > An antistatic wrist strap protects the gear against static charge, but > might be risky for a human regarding potential equalization, assuming > something should be fishy, such as a hot metal case. Once the human > touches the hot metal case a fault current breaker should detect that > something is missing, but galvanic isolation is way more secure than a > breaker that probably is missing that something is missing. > > Actually the fault current breaker should already do it's job, when the > metal case is hot, already before a human does touch it. If it doesn't, > then touching the metal case might be dangerous with or without > wearing an antistatic wrist strap. > > However, galvanic isolation is absolutely safe, unless getting in > contact with both conductors, which is impossible in our scenario and > even very unlikely when repairing gear. I disagree with several of your points. But, as the subject involves risk and liability, I advise any readers of this thread to hire qualified professionals if they need help with their electrical systems. David From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 01:57:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC30D45E830 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:57:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CKHyN4TlZz4pXp for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:57:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 99D8C45E906; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:57:00 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999F245E82F for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:57:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from smtp7.server.rpi.edu (smtp7.server.rpi.edu [128.113.1.207]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "canit.localdomain", Issuer "canit.localdomain" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKHyM55Ssz4pVm for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:56:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from mail-auth1.server.rpi.edu (mail-auth1.server.rpi.edu [128.113.1.231]) by smtp7.server.rpi.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id 09Q1up4w087616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:56:51 -0400 Received: from mail-auth1.server.rpi.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail-auth1.server.rpi.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19BF5804D; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:56:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.113.125.57] (calyx-57.net.rpi.edu [128.113.125.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: drosih) by mail-auth1.server.rpi.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 653B15804B; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:56:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Garance A Drosehn" To: "Robert Huff" Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sh scripting question Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:56:06 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.2r5673) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <24456.60388.135834.43951@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <24456.60388.135834.43951@jerusalem.litteratus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: outgoing, @@RPTN) X-Spam-Score: 0.00 () [Hold at 10.10] HTML_MESSAGE:0.001 X-CanIt-Incident-Id: 083IpUPUX X-CanIt-Geo: ip=128.113.125.57; country=US; region=New York; city=Troy; latitude=42.7273; longitude=-73.6696; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.7273,-73.6696&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: outgoing X-Canit-Stats-ID: Bayes signature not available X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.113.1.207 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKHyM55Ssz4pVm X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rpi.edu; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of drosih@rpi.edu designates 128.113.1.207 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=drosih@rpi.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.53 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:128.113.1.200/29]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.003]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.73)[-0.733]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rpi.edu,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:91, ipnet:128.113.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[questions] Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:57:00 -0000 On 15 Oct 2020, at 20:40, Robert Huff wrote: > I have a file ("files.list") with a list of filenames, similar to > > /path A/path B/FreeBSD is great.txt > > (note the embedded spaces) > If I use > > for FILE in `cat files.list` > > FILE will be set to "/path". > How do I get it to read the entire string? You will (perhaps) be surprised at how much you can get done with a simple bourne or bash shell script, if you have something which can look at your code and give helpful hints. One way to get those hints would be to use 'shellcheck'. There is a port for shellcheck, and you can also try it out at https://www.shellcheck.net without needing to install anything on your own machines. Take the code you wrote, paste it into the shellcheck window, and it'll find whatever risky things are in that code. And it will suggest alternatives. You can also put comments in your code which will tell shellcheck "Yes, I really did mean to do this risky thing, so do not warn me about it". I think it's very useful. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = drosih@rpi.edu Lead Developer @rpi and gad@FreeBSD.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 04:12:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BC04392DC for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 04:12:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CKLy81BlRz4vPB for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 04:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.231] (unknown [172.58.86.157]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AA3314E63D; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:02:46 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? From: Valeri Galtsev In-Reply-To: <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:02:45 -0500 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <79CA7927-080F-4596-96CB-CEFB2322F062@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> To: Ralf Mardorf X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKLy81BlRz4vPB X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.47 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[172.58.86.157:received]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.93)[-0.926]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[172.58.86.157:received]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.50)[-0.504]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.70)[-0.697]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 04:12:01 -0000 > On Oct 25, 2020, at 4:52 PM, Ralf Mardorf = wrote: >=20 > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:39:48 -0700, David Christensen wrote: >> On 2020-10-25 05:54, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> Please explain how galvanic isolation relates to electrostatic >> discharge mitigation. >=20 > That's a misunderstanding. >=20 >> Please explain the risk(s) associate with antistatic wrist straps. >=20 > IMO it's a risk for a human being to wear an antistatic wrist strap, > when getting in touch with gear that is connected to the mains. >=20 > IMO if the gear isn't directly connected to the mains, because an > isolating transformer grants galvanic isolation, an antistatic wrist > strap isn't a risk for a human being. >=20 Well, anti-static strap is used when one is working on fully = disconnected from power equipment on the bench which is metal or = slightly conducting mat which is connected to the =E2=80=9Cground=E2=80=9D= which is specially arranged thing I will not go into discussion about. = In this setup there is no danger to person using this strap. Several = people disregard using strap, and single conducting mat. However, they = have set of habits (often from their ham times - radio amateur that is). = These habits will be: putting static sensitive boards on anti-static = bags, and touching bag before picking up the board, then touching metal = chassis before installing board=E2=80=A6 works the same way as strap. > An antistatic wrist strap protects the gear against static charge, but > might be risky for a human regarding potential equalization, assuming > something should be fishy, such as a hot metal case. Once the human > touches the hot metal case a fault current breaker should detect that > something is missing, but galvanic isolation is way more secure than a > breaker that probably is missing that something is missing. >=20 If anything is plugged to AC, there always is stray capacitance, and = through that capacitance the voltage of hot lead can be on some pieces = inside device. Of course, stray capacitance is small, acts as big value = resistor, however =E2=80=9Cdischarging=E2=80=9D even that small resistor = through some high impedance pin of (static sensitive) board can be fatal = for some IC (integrated circuit) on the board. Can be safe but not = always is for a human accidentally touching that spot. Incidentally, I = did myself several times stupid thing: touched 220V (AC) hot lead and = got shock. Neither led to gross consequences, but it could=E2=80=A6 I = was very young then. So, we do our best to work inside equipment when it is fully = disconnected from AC. Pull out all AC cords! > Actually the fault current breaker should already do it's job, when = the > metal case is hot, already before a human does touch it. If it = doesn't, > then touching the metal case might be dangerous with or without > wearing an antistatic wrist strap. >=20 > However, galvanic isolation is absolutely safe, unless getting in > contact with both conductors, which is impossible in our scenario and > even very unlikely when repairing gear.=20 Hm, if galvanic you mean DC isolation (i.e. AC transformer), then I = disagree. In case of AC stray capacitance (which always exists) conducts = some of AC line voltage to "DC isolated" part of equipment. Only optical = isolation is full isolation, but we didn=E2=80=99t learn yet how to = transfer sufficient power using purely optical connection. In general, = DC isolation, like transformer, is safe, but transformer has stray = capacitance, and what usually saves the day that low voltage part kind = of shunts what comes through stray capacitance by not to small = resistance. There may be less usual situation when highly isolated from = everything piece of equipment has big capacitive coupling to = =E2=80=9Cground=E2=80=9D which can be charged gradually through small = stray capacitance of transformer (rectifier of one sort or another will = be in play, call it =E2=80=9Cstray rectifier"). Even though it falls = under what you call =E2=80=9Cgalvanic isolation=E2=80=9D, it represents = big danger for a human, as big capacitor can sustain significant current = for long enough time to do harm to living being. My apologies, if I misunderstood you. Valeri > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 04:20:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25866439365 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 04:20:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CKM7N40hLz4vpT for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 04:20:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.231] (unknown [172.58.86.157]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D33E04E63D; Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:19:59 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? From: Valeri Galtsev In-Reply-To: <20201025194732.89b4baab79673a434df7cdcb@sohara.org> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:19:58 -0500 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025194732.89b4baab79673a434df7cdcb@sohara.org> To: Steve O'Hara-Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKM7N40hLz4vpT X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.47 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[172.58.86.157:received]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.92)[-0.925]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,meta]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[172.58.86.157:received]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.51)[-0.513]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.70)[-0.697]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 04:20:01 -0000 > On Oct 25, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Steve O'Hara-Smith = wrote: >=20 > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100 > Ralf Mardorf wrote: >=20 >> A hot swap drive bay inherits the risk of a damage by static >> electricity when changing drives. >=20 > Pretty minimal risk IME - by the time you've opened the bay and > pulled out the old drive you've discharged to ground (it's pretty much > impossible not to touch grounded metal doing this) and as long as the > replacement drive is to hand nothing is going to charge you up again. >=20 Interestingly, some hard drives develop rather hight static voltages = between drive case and electronics. In general, spinning drive is akin = Van der Graaf Generator. I remember some young company that surfaced on = =E2=80=9Cconsumer grade=E2=80=9D RAID field (OK, I=E2=80=99ll name them: = raid.com) was making plastic drive enclosures, so drive case was fully = isolated from everything. Every so often such Van der Graaf Generator = was developing on the drive case voltage large enough for breakdown of = air gap between case and electronics, drive electronics was getting = surge, and drive, though not killed, was kicked out of array. I shared = office with sysadmin who had RAID box with that trouble, and when = company finally made metal strips connecting drive case to chassis = case, I learned what kind of trouble my office mate had and physics = behind that was clear from the solution. Valeri > --=20 > Steve O'Hara-Smith > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 07:20:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54E843CA3C for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:20:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKR7p6q9Jz3ZYv for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:20:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKR7V0fKdzFmdl for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:20:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603696828; bh=DqWaLXzMSWwrS57EU2Ua7GXdmKvSQ44u/lxuKI6J+/Q=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=SMm+eC9TQpIjGt55PkbulUamS0udv5p3uB9OO+PZEhYKzpw002IzVJ6ykb6oPCCCA y730OnW5BGBId42LD/T2yihF5O8o9u/DwxMz98DbGRztFxhsI4OMNBdBl7weZUzEA3 HRaj1reccPAu6Wj0/BjRrrbJTYKZRu6PYUUkVhx4= X-Riseup-User-ID: F505C744182FA15B2218ACAB4D19F785267433CF563D5C3E654BF94D71A8243B Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CKR7T4hlTzJrKM for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:20:15 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201026082015.24287140@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <79CA7927-080F-4596-96CB-CEFB2322F062@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> <79CA7927-080F-4596-96CB-CEFB2322F062@kicp.uchicago.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKR7p6q9Jz3ZYv X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=SMm+eC9T; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.27 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.70)[-0.699]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.975]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.992]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:20:40 -0000 On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:02:45 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote: >> On Oct 25, 2020, at 4:52 PM, Ralf Mardorf >> wrote: >> However, galvanic isolation is absolutely safe, unless getting in >> contact with both conductors, which is impossible in our scenario and >> even very unlikely when repairing gear. =20 > >Hm, if galvanic you mean DC isolation (i.e. AC transformer), then I >disagree. In case of AC stray capacitance (which always exists) >conducts some of AC line voltage to "DC isolated" part of equipment. >Only optical isolation is full isolation, but we didn=E2=80=99t learn yet = how >to transfer sufficient power using purely optical connection. In >general, DC isolation, like transformer, is safe, but transformer has >stray capacitance, and what usually saves the day that low voltage >part kind of shunts what comes through stray capacitance by not to >small resistance. There may be less usual situation when highly >isolated from everything piece of equipment has big capacitive >coupling to =E2=80=9Cground=E2=80=9D which can be charged gradually throug= h small >stray capacitance of transformer (rectifier of one sort or another >will be in play, call it =E2=80=9Cstray rectifier"). Even though it falls >under what you call =E2=80=9Cgalvanic isolation=E2=80=9D, it represents bi= g danger for >a human, as big capacitor can sustain significant current for long >enough time to do harm to living being. > >My apologies, if I misunderstood you. > 230 V L=C2=B0----------------=C2=B0 <- Don't get in touch with this conduc= tor. 50 Hz N=C2=B0----------------=C2=B0 <- Touching this conductor is ok. 230 V L=C2=B0-----+ || +-----=C2=B0 <- You can touch this conductor ...=20 50 Hz | || | | || | N=C2=B0-----+ || +-----=C2=B0 <- ... as well as this conductor, just= don't touch both at the same time. In Germany the isolation transformer usually is an adjustable transformer, so it's possible to troubleshoot and repair 230 V as well as 120 V gear. Troubleshooting disconnected gear is hard to do ;). Indeed, I've forgotten that some circuits contain big capacitors, so discharging using a resistor is usually done (and sometimes even the screwdriver is used, not recommended ;). CRTs and other special gear are something else, far away from a scenario of a hot computer metal case. On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:34:36 -0400, Kevin P. Neal wrote: >I've seen that happen. Guitar players hate it when they walk up to a >mic, start singing, their lip touches the mic and ZAP! They really >hate that. It looks weird, too. Ever seen a guitar player react like >he's been punched in the face right as he starts to sing? I have. On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:14:12 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote: >Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >Please explain the risk(s) associate with antistatic wrist straps. =20 >>=20 >> IMO it's a risk for a human being to wear an antistatic wrist strap, >> when getting in touch with gear that is connected to the mains. =20 > >ESD wrist straps have a resistor in series to prevent exactly this >problem from occurring. It's on the order of a 1 M ohm value. This >protects the wearer in the event they touch live AC mains. >(Meanwhile... I always preferred the heel straps myself.) I wouldn't bet on an Alibaba anti-static wrist strap and even not on branded products, as long as expensive smartphones authorized for the European market, equipped with original batteries catch fire when charging. Audio gear sometimes provides a ground lift switch, then ground isn't directly connected, but still connected by a capacitor (and sometimes it's completely cut off, not recommended ;). Good old MIDI is/was isolated by working opto-couplers. Nowadays USB MIDI seemingly isn't isolated anymore and for classic MIDI sometimes there's not enough power to power the opt-couplers or the signal suffers from bad edge steepness. However, as a musician and audio engineer I don't trust grounding. Without doubts grounding is perfect in professional video and audio studios and probably in a server farm, too. Anywhere else in the real world grounding often is fishy. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 07:30:55 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AED43D019 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKRMg2rzBz3b5k for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from capuchin.riseup.net (capuchin-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKRMY65fKzFgMR for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:30:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603697449; bh=h52h1LfrlsNg5Hqxv3iM5TRPuU2ow0MKuB/Zh+OgGIA=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=gBSCMMMSRXAhDuC6A8p4HItmu3u8EjuK/RatpUCB16G4YxdFaLfzoEJL6hwR4XGqT B1fBIZDQN1BMD6sNArn8XqqhBrJIg2Koj7kQ6nQTObsprhKeR/AOXD3S/sFWExsGZ2 ECQm+DpZrWtW0ImYHkJVLMT2uqF+20Nz6+e6XqeE= X-Riseup-User-ID: B47636ADCB7D293661A871677B11ECCD91204CB23453A8BECCE9B08FB4AF0EB2 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by capuchin.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CKRMY1J9Jz8t23 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:30:44 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201026083044.395e77e2@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20201026082015.24287140@archlinux> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <24469.26288.47199.882303@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20201025135437.35b592a5@archlinux> <20201025225215.65cfca64@archlinux> <79CA7927-080F-4596-96CB-CEFB2322F062@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20201026082015.24287140@archlinux> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKRMg2rzBz3b5k X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=gBSCMMMS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.27 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.710]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.971]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.991]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:30:56 -0000 On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:20:15 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >Indeed, I've forgotten that some circuits contain big capacitors, so >discharging using a resistor is usually done (and sometimes even the >screwdriver is used, not recommended ;). Oops, I contradict myself. If the gear is powered, we better don't try to discharge a capacitor :D. If the gear isn't powered, we don't need galvanic isolation by a transformer. So I'm mistaken, galvanic isolation is not perfectly safe. But it's still better to isolate. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 15:30:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F570447C4C for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:30:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKf0q37W4z4Msd for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:30:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id g12so13094181wrp.10 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mBaBB6BE0g+6mehVLicOszrbaRWE0Gl4IKA3wXCw6Wk=; b=OsBKw2ceX4FzPuLSMLrdQLXkBiDJMI+YPH0dpBwDJjxS9P88AvZUSCarYqax0IW6Kl TtGpQXQFCdUapkc7G7uMuqCgREKOGmXJVSoFW5265vKGihvLK2auGuzdLEaztqREdB72 jlHhCyjz3awxnk6M69eU8qkEfvAqdCJSj9az3YNllrqsqXWpi4P1uSosqlnDd0gcEUmV j399nlll4Gl854MYLYcbVF5m8thEhPNVIEeFQAYCNrcmf8kbLg7WWaC6FDrlk4QY6YyY pWEDcJEW7qL5CjtysiKG+gDQXnow8kRWZz4zj3gz26HEPzjkLKrBSKJukPeIOm1Gym3O oEHg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530MH5zDg4k5e3Cxgi99ySVdemFTvMQedCA9yxpl+ITV1GUJ4jNX sEWaWqNOFTga3aqjjeqyjeMzqW9qw5cwmA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxSU0uASmy5NTZRA7O33wOZSRRO6z5IpKr1ykmJMPE3P7hO6b49NlgBmQFxZnZJufdppBei8w== X-Received: by 2002:adf:94e3:: with SMTP id 90mr17181292wrr.380.1603726217635; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([2.121.231.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 26sm8494522wmk.42.2020.10.26.08.30.15 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:30:12 +0000 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKf0q37W4z4Msd X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.03 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[2.121.231.131:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.977]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.95)[0.947]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::42a:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:30:20 -0000 On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:33:21 +0100 Polytropon wrote: > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > I also want to add for consideration, if reboots between operating > > systems are often wanted and HDDs are used, it's way better when all > > drives, even the unused drives are spinning all the time. Parking > > and releasing heads very often, does shorten the life span the > > most. I think this is mostly a myth. Manufactures specify a figure for this of, IIRC, around 150k cycles. Drives that are switched-off a few time a day never reach anything like that. A few year ago Western Digital made some green drives, with extremely aggressive power saving, that parked within seconds. With some usage patters these could fail in months. I think it was around this time that people started talking about heads as if they were like sledge hammers. > I don't know if this is still true, but in ye olden times, > there was a distinction between "home PC disks" and "server > disks"... > > dislikes ... running all the time And they aren't designed to take the same levels of reads and writes. > Probably modern disks tend to be more like server disks, > even when being sold for and used in home PCs... :-) These days home drives at 2TB or bigger are usually shingled - often without any mention, even on the data sheets. Typically there's a more expensive version aimed for use in RAID that isn't shingled. Another difference is that home drives try very much harder to recover data, whereas a drive intended for RAID is programmed to fail quickly and leave it to the redundancy. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 16:19:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD60448CE2 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:19:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CKg503J0lz4Qlr for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:19:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 621EB4E66A for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 11:18:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <306cdb65-18e1-8639-e137-387abe27f4c5@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 11:18:59 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKg503J0lz4Qlr X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.24 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.70)[-0.699]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.13)[0.126]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.77)[-0.771]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:19:01 -0000 On 10/26/20 10:30 AM, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:33:21 +0100 > Polytropon wrote: > >> On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> I also want to add for consideration, if reboots between operating >>> systems are often wanted and HDDs are used, it's way better when all >>> drives, even the unused drives are spinning all the time. Parking >>> and releasing heads very often, does shorten the life span the >>> most. > > I think this is mostly a myth. > > Manufactures specify a figure for this of, IIRC, around 150k cycles. > Drives that are switched-off a few time a day never reach anything like > that. > > A few year ago Western Digital made some green drives, with extremely > aggressive power saving, that parked within seconds. With some usage > patters these could fail in months. I think it was around this time > that people started talking about heads as if they were like sledge > hammers. > Hm, not sledge hammers, but still. Heads are relatively massive attachment GLUED to the end of head arm. The last is spring loaded to be returned to "parking" track, and when the drive is powered off, current in DC magnet that moves arm to necessary track goes to 0, arm is released, and moved by spring to track0 till arm bangs against arm stopper. That mechanical thing is the reason for the finite number of power off's of the drive (which even is in the drive specs). I have seen drives that "lost their heads": the heads were no more secured to the arm and freely flying inside drive enclosure. > >> I don't know if this is still true, but in ye olden times, >> there was a distinction between "home PC disks" and "server >> disks"... >> >> dislikes ... running all the time > [spinning] Hard drive being the most failure prone part of the computer, I am always was picky about what drive I have in _my_ machine. Only the best ("enterprise" level) drives, and only from best manufacturers, and the most reliable of their lines. This (price difference, not much of battery saving, etc.) pays off by reliability. > And they aren't designed to take the same levels of reads and writes. > This actually is not true, as far as I understand. Magnetic medium with solid carrier of magnetic layer (which hard drives are) has no physical mechanism that restricts the number of re-magnetizations of magnetic layer. This is different from tape and floppy drives. The last have two mechanisms of medium deterioration: flexing medium, finite life of "flexible glue" carrying magnetic layer particles, and mechanical wear as to the contrary to hard drives tape and floppy heads are in (abrasive) direct mechanical contact with magnetic surface (and are not protected from external dust). Hard drive heads are "flying" above the surface, never (ideally) touching it. > >> Probably modern disks tend to be more like server disks, >> even when being sold for and used in home PCs... :-) > > > These days home drives at 2TB or bigger are usually shingled - often > without any mention, even on the data sheets. Typically there's a more > expensive version aimed for use in RAID that isn't shingled. > > Another difference is that home drives try very much harder to recover > data, whereas a drive intended for RAID is programmed to fail quickly > and leave it to the redundancy. > I never heard of that, would you mind to elaborate on that. My knowledge (based on really old design of drive firmware) is: when checksum of read block doesn't match, drive re-reads block multiple times, and attempts to superimpose read results till the check sum matches or max number of attempts (really large number) is reached. At this point the drive sends out block read result (or read failure), and if the number of attempts is larger than small threshold number (really few, like 3 or 5), then it declares block a bad block, writes block content (the same as was sent as block read result) onto bad block reallocation area on drive platters, and adds block number (address) to bad block reallocation table. What I described is what I remember from drive firmware way back, over 20 years ago. If dealing with bad blocks changed fundamentally, I'd like to hear what it is now, or some pointer for reading would be great. One thing that is not relevant to bad blocks did change since then: if back then it was digital signal that was coming from drive head, these days it is rather weird looking analog signal (which is basically compared to digital signal passed through low pass filter, and if they coincide, then that digital signal resembles digital signal the drive holds, and is the read result). Apart from that (digital encoded for drive signal fouled by lower frequency analog equipment writing it to platters and mostly by then reading it from them), the rest of drive firmware has not much reason to change (yes, I know, there exist "green drives", I just dismiss that "green" part[y] ;-) as I stay away from them). Valeri > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 16:51:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7557F4494C9 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:51:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKgpR4MvNz4T1d for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:51:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKgpF6RQSzFdsk for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:51:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603731077; bh=WF7JssNru5iF0Vd0kjFsIaQWvzxN/XZYgMGzM+hZEj8=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=JQ29iGQj4cA3XUx6NIcEqsA3G3IVv9O/hrnbNaTV+dX9AmfouOJhpP31Y7KdIeOzK uTIObttATNOaDXlGW+djnBuGYy8zbKUChzsRWD0KAHIn8wwI5jiS5vCjeHwbfFV3ZV 7lcWLAqrdPBmENXYFBRJxsrtyQrd+giX/Px8ovpQ= X-Riseup-User-ID: FB0D7B4B6B24FB3823FEBBA57E6294FF2468E9C77959D0E76854BB914B26EFF1 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CKgpF29vZzJn9Q for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:51:04 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKgpR4MvNz4T1d X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=JQ29iGQj; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.89 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.82)[-0.819]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.977]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:51:28 -0000 On Mon, 2020-10-26 at 15:30 +0000, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:33:21 +0100 > Polytropon wrote: > > > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > I also want to add for consideration, if reboots between operating > > > systems are often wanted and HDDs are used, it's way better when all > > > drives, even the unused drives are spinning all the time. Parking > > > and releasing heads very often, does shorten the life span the > > > most. > > I think this is mostly a myth. In my experiences it isn't a myth. The intern HDDs of my PCs did last for around 2 years, when turning the computer off and on several times a day and they did last for around 7 years, if the machine runs more or less 24/7. > A few year ago Western Digital made some green drives, with extremely > aggressive power saving, that parked within seconds. With some usage > patters these could fail in months. I think it was around this time > that people started talking about heads as if they were like sledge > hammers. This is not true. I'm the owner of such an external green WD drive. It does park the heads and if people aren't careful right after parking something like gvfs or smartd etc. does wake up the drive immediately, for absolutely no reasons. There probably were a few drives where this happened every few seconds, but more common is, that it happens after around 30 minutes, which already is way to often. If you remove gvfs, don't enable smartd etc. those green drives get very old. Mine already is very old and still alive. It should be years older than this dummy package, I build in 2013 to fulfill idiotic hard dependencies against gvfs. [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Qi gvfs Name : gvfs Version : 2013.08.18-1 Description : Dummy package Architecture : any URL : None Licenses : None Groups : None Provides : gvfs Depends On : None Optional Deps : None Required By : caja libgnome nautilus nemo Optional For : evince ffmpegthumbnailer inkscape thunar Conflicts With : dummy Replaces : None Installed Size : 4.00 KiB Packager : Unknown Packager Build Date : Sun 18 Aug 2013 18:06:40 CEST Install Date : Fri 06 Sep 2013 12:34:40 CEST Install Reason : Explicitly installed Install Script : No Validated By : None These days home drives at 2TB or bigger are usually shingled - often without any mention, even on the data sheets. All inexpensive TiB drives are SMR drives. There's no data sheet needed. If the drive is inexpensive, then it must be a SMR drive. Btw. I'm using a lot of external, inexpensive "Toshiba P300 - Desktop" drives. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 17:02:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1464B4498EE for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:02:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKh2n2Vcpz4Tgh for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:02:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKh2g4tCJzFtCt for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 10:02:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603731723; bh=7qr3JKUbLx9fgKtU5CgVGciRTV0PLBQyn6JfuZyeVKA=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=lyCyeqO40OVEnpG9ZOf24D2VCTlNXUMGU/VfRiFjXPkc9A/FcdNE2lTw2lIUvZ8+y XbmiubqguldjetH1hlSyLJWs/yOVrGS8FFwCgFHs3ZlvoYCBir62g9f9KqnEqoDmj5 pSdBv1lbEGYG2mXREulLPKTmm5jknAIn886a2WTc= X-Riseup-User-ID: 5D879EB9A867557CEB3BEDC2E3553600D77C0C80BFC0E54F4E1980CDDBE38AD2 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CKh2g0DcJzJnTD for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 18:01:55 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201026180155.48690495@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKh2n2Vcpz4Tgh X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=lyCyeqO4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.07 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.51)[-0.510]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.967]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.991]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:02:10 -0000 On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:51:04 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >In my experiences it isn't a myth. The intern HDDs of my PCs did last >for around 2 years, when turning the computer off and on several times >a day and they did last for around 7 years, if the machine runs more or >less 24/7. Btw. almost all of the times drives of both kind of usage failed with a click, click noise, because they were unable to release the heads. A "slap" usually released the heads a few times, so it was possible to copy data, that wasn't already backuped. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 20:45:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C476D44E706 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:45:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x442.google.com (mail-wr1-x442.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::442]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKn0W0LMzz3ThZ for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:45:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x442.google.com with SMTP id j7so14306023wrt.9 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:45:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nmDU1GgXeBepBEG209BRKSTKtXZYy8vS4r5uG+unlbI=; b=B94MzzRnwW+ju2wkZmkdd8y7reuxoFvywgN9A4h9XXyn+NdZartV7uXtR6xeXmL2xl +SyGedMBMcyNdvJxENHXvUqVDciPFHDrcc6rvgJ7ady95p+GM2i+U2BFiMwfOXWW15rp l5+XoNUjIvHJ7CZthdaxCcOrPBcmNk4yhJlICkdlXqf5UPlZHG0izUJFDoJZ4LXIdQ0i YbR6OaMuzspX7MG/GMOAaqE51d+PjIlM0szh2QHK1Lv5kGeJ9lt6RWEuAC3GvLIcG6eN YDRcRgazhrP7DIUvaoxPh+key1f091ix8LAflvu4U020jx9FeKMqMSDO3i8xSv0uV+yk jGpA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5332wEpCDIRhA3llIZ8RSwUbFMTl0lUnWQ0BvnqbEIeOddmoFdy6 +DbHldmEjt9k+9oC40XFPGVQ49gVtlplXA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwISISyqkGjmnDdaBjeZVOFFmDhyhKG6QEfyBGFXO7B0x5CPwmLrkVmuu7uyVizH/8yzgCXzw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f286:: with SMTP id k6mr12732911wro.34.1603745128964; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([2.121.231.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o5sm22951926wrw.76.2020.10.26.13.45.27 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:45:24 +0000 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201026204524.7959ae0b@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKn0W0LMzz3ThZ X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.44 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[2.121.231.131:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.978]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.995]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.54)[0.536]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::442:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:45:31 -0000 On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:51:04 +0100 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Mon, 2020-10-26 at 15:30 +0000, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: > > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:33:21 +0100 > > Polytropon wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > I also want to add for consideration, if reboots between > > > > operating systems are often wanted and HDDs are used, it's way > > > > better when all drives, even the unused drives are spinning all > > > > the time. Parking and releasing heads very often, does shorten > > > > the life span the most. > > > > I think this is mostly a myth. > > In my experiences it isn't a myth. Note that I was talking specifically about head parking rather then power cycling in general. Your anecdote is about power cycling, not specifically parking. > The intern HDDs of my PCs did last > for around 2 years, when turning the computer off and on several > times a day and they did last for around 7 years, if the machine runs > more or less 24/7. I have contrary anecdotes that I wont bore you with. > > A few year ago Western Digital made some green drives, with > > extremely aggressive power saving, that parked within seconds. With > > some usage patters these could fail in months. I think it was > > around this time that people started talking about heads as if they > > were like sledge hammers. > > This is not true. And yet you go on to say that it probably is. > ... There probably were a few drives where this happened every few > seconds, Obviously those where it did happen are what I'm talking about. The drives were only available for a short period, WD changed the defaults back when they started to fail. My recollection is that this notion that parking is hugely violent and wearing started to spread around that time. Some of the explanations about why parking is so bad are absurd. I've even heard it said that the whole thing is left to a spring. My understanding is that parking is always controlled and performed under power, with the spindle motor being used as a generator if necessary. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 21:25:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157A444EFB9 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:25:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CKntH2H75z3WTd for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:25:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A9AC24E65F for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:25:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> <20201026204524.7959ae0b@gumby.homeunix.com> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <7256578c-3ad2-2a21-f904-474a5ba7d6a6@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:25:10 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201026204524.7959ae0b@gumby.homeunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKntH2H75z3WTd X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.65 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.70)[-0.700]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.77)[-0.772]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.27)[-0.274]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:25:12 -0000 On 10/26/20 3:45 PM, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:51:04 +0100 > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> On Mon, 2020-10-26 at 15:30 +0000, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: >>> On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:33:21 +0100 >>> Polytropon wrote: >>> >>>> On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>>> I also want to add for consideration, if reboots between >>>>> operating systems are often wanted and HDDs are used, it's way >>>>> better when all drives, even the unused drives are spinning all >>>>> the time. Parking and releasing heads very often, does shorten >>>>> the life span the most. >>> >>> I think this is mostly a myth. >> >> In my experiences it isn't a myth. > > Note that I was talking specifically about head parking rather then > power cycling in general. Your anecdote is about power cycling, not > specifically parking. > Is parking heads not just powering off magnet that positions heads on data tracks? My guess is it is, id so, then it has physical mechanism to make life finite (I've seen drives that "lost their heads" after too many bags of spring loaded against arm stopper). Constantly spinning drives wears bearings, but bearings are designed to last decade if not longer. I have drives that spin for at leas a decade and a half almost constantly (with occasional reboots). Worst case scenario is poorly balanced platter assembly drive whose axes is horizontal. Then bearing wear becomes not uniform, but elliptical (gravity adds asymmetry), and at some point of bearing wear platter may start vibrate, and that cases fast failure. But these are speculative reasons based on "mock physics" ;-) Valeri > >> The intern HDDs of my PCs did last >> for around 2 years, when turning the computer off and on several >> times a day and they did last for around 7 years, if the machine runs >> more or less 24/7. > > I have contrary anecdotes that I wont bore you with. > >>> A few year ago Western Digital made some green drives, with >>> extremely aggressive power saving, that parked within seconds. With >>> some usage patters these could fail in months. I think it was >>> around this time that people started talking about heads as if they >>> were like sledge hammers. >> >> This is not true. > > And yet you go on to say that it probably is. > >> ... There probably were a few drives where this happened every few >> seconds, > > Obviously those where it did happen are what I'm talking about. The > drives were only available for a short period, WD changed the defaults > back when they started to fail. My recollection is that this > notion that parking is hugely violent and wearing started to spread > around that time. > > Some of the explanations about why parking is so bad are absurd. I've > even heard it said that the whole thing is left to a spring. > > My understanding is that parking is always controlled and performed > under power, with the spindle motor being used as a generator if > necessary. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 23:08:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFC745122C for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:08:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKr9l38Y2z3ccV for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:08:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id w1so797287wrm.4 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:08:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3GC7EQ51y7G/PU7zl7y/QpINTAxlDuKnkEW3GaZmDak=; b=FIpEGPaxm1S92aMrkVziY/UEngWbkIrjfAq84HmcJhhafUKS2MPay8FSq3lq1t/J6P Evc36HyC5o8iLM4oBnn/gGn34gIjvQUskDXIZeAHFiMRCqFlxyjgo8OB2EQMlX95go7u 0YR6U197ok/CJl9XZIk0cRHwkBkyEUA5TeSu62TdPmrHRw5utPtFbAI4jWZYf44/NTZS UOoVThaW3CqoRk7RvoMlWf3D+QgpRtRhYUZzQHt/G314JW70soEfVoZ9AAh+IXOvKm6a INhJIoYd6O36GFZMF1r9r6I8OtZR2l+Oep3j0hEoRi0ME5iQm8GNOUwoScn6m4/3huW5 qTkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5326I7qZwen202Ek4hAPwxNH3NHV2+AuT+95awtfkquo4rPpChhk GeP+VPSsgMZ07PvDdrrLTBFARpS2e5YNCA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwew8y8C9Laz5HCCpiuwdsjP/Rn7h02UPPHKqiPaMuey3P1JQypVcTI+6fuDPeijbqEQ2o96A== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1151:: with SMTP id d17mr21555606wrx.363.1603753720816; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([2.121.231.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u15sm25104612wrm.77.2020.10.26.16.08.39 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:08:36 +0000 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201026230836.5cd9e0dc@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20201026180155.48690495@archlinux> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> <20201026180155.48690495@archlinux> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKr9l38Y2z3ccV X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.63 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.66)[-0.660]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[2.121.231.131:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.977]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::42a:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:08:44 -0000 On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 18:01:55 +0100 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:51:04 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >In my experiences it isn't a myth. The intern HDDs of my PCs did last > >for around 2 years, when turning the computer off and on several > >times a day and they did last for around 7 years, if the machine > >runs more or less 24/7. > > Btw. almost all of the times drives of both kind of usage failed with > a click, click noise, because they were unable to release the heads. If the head was stuck then why did it click? Clicking suggests the head moved. My guess is that it attempted something 3 times and parked after each failure. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 23:14:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA22451BC3 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:14:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com (mail-wr1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKrJN6nPkz3dFn for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:14:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id n6so14862969wrm.13 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:14:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RKGraJoLWB3NhX4fv3CuY9KcuWtoKS2PL5bxDGtfgOc=; b=lgprnZ0PyPU09iQFja1gtxUqe3p064oORG1JOWmm0u101Wa3smIu6ZjCGSFiFby4vP ptEAOgreeTWMBEm2TuODdI4p4J7Oljy7lkTjjRy1IOB2lG7prhtZ74OY4hy9W/dnV8Fh oCXEt7GqFJHUZXQO4s5jqtWa9UfjIJdFysFPT8A+fN6qWEbxEowaDZq3JgdcANvgXeuV +0LVHT9GabF0JKpP3t1DdsH+6JCm4buv8F465iHuXCufm0ZNuTf6afGTw+3+cWn8c2hx 97JbkLYI9lnSncvu1lgrLVjj3HsWkfMw/i9dPbvLP0LdhAyP66p+CfZ1cfvVain52M// FMqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530DSzs4xA+47fExhzwZrLmTW1e87WNPhWGzO6MIZMXtfKFOxNvB xWb/m7ebn3YQ4XLEqxkGn58T6tP5zDSQww== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzkZ4Ioj6JCihlnxtAFNGkrjzevzzFu82NvA8zZiaWTgNmxxIHYThy8FuvkgeAn6RMe78S7Rg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:a455:: with SMTP id e21mr22116113wra.158.1603754066282; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([2.121.231.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x22sm25926475wmj.25.2020.10.26.16.14.24 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:14:22 +0000 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201026231422.1b03652d@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <7256578c-3ad2-2a21-f904-474a5ba7d6a6@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> <20201026204524.7959ae0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <7256578c-3ad2-2a21-f904-474a5ba7d6a6@kicp.uchicago.edu> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKrJN6nPkz3dFn X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.31 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.341]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[2.121.231.131:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.977]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::429:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:14:29 -0000 On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:25:10 -0500 Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > Note that I was talking specifically about head parking rather then > > power cycling in general. Your anecdote is about power cycling, not > > specifically parking. > > > > Is parking heads not just powering off magnet that positions heads on > data tracks? On shutdown hard drives turn their spindle motor into a generator to power the parking. Parking is clearly not passive. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 06:13:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C845243EB6A for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:13:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CL1bJ53Zhz4Mnr for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:13:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CL1b64D6NzFf49 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:12:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603779170; bh=F7jIobhUcVmSGjF01Rb6CBOtB43o92vZSKGcHJICb0w=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Yzj6xzydi+5Wg8mNVCHm6Dsb7HifE7qcva+ffqENzyIdgA7BJt/Xdv4THOwxpcNmZ Mqc8Nqq33TsZ7bEFy/MmT/tbi7sMUMO87dQbrLkrWP1Be4l98v/TK7aMPyQIhUxyUg klorS2NGjKFN7UfRh+YpdC8hCE67Q3Aka+3zAn64= X-Riseup-User-ID: 74C77C2D43504B61AE973ABE4C3E1ABF0A43AB71E2BCF15A5AC13BC16F883DED Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CL1b60zkHzJqlj for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:12:30 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201027071230.0c60b09b@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20201026230836.5cd9e0dc@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> <20201026180155.48690495@archlinux> <20201026230836.5cd9e0dc@gumby.homeunix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CL1bJ53Zhz4Mnr X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=Yzj6xzyd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.48 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.923]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.966]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.993]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:13:01 -0000 On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:08:36 +0000, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: >On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 18:01:55 +0100 >Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:51:04 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >In my experiences it isn't a myth. The intern HDDs of my PCs did >> >last for around 2 years, when turning the computer off and on >> >several times a day and they did last for around 7 years, if the >> >machine runs more or less 24/7. >> >> Btw. almost all of the times drives of both kind of usage failed with >> a click, click noise, because they were unable to release the heads. >> > >If the head was stuck then why did it click? Clicking suggests the >head moved. > >My guess is that it attempted something 3 times and parked after each >failure. It's most likely the most occurring breakage of desktop PC hard disk drives, not just something I accidentally experienced. It's not literally a click, click noise, it's an endless click, click, click ... click noise. If you slap the drive, the heads often are release (this is not just my guess, but it's a guess), but this works just a few times and even after the heads are released (or whatever else) the drive not necessarily works without issues and likely just for a few minutes. This article mentions that the click noise is the most common signal of a breakage: https://drivesaversdatarecovery.com/blog/what-causes-hard-drive-clicking/ Ok, if this article should be correct, the issue aren't heads that can't be released, but "over time, the actuator arm can become worn out and begin to malfunction, resulting in a hard drive clicking sound". The article mentions "Physical damage This is probably the most obvious cause of hard drive damage, so it deserves to be mentioned. Hard drive clicking can start after the drive has been dropped, moistened, exposed to fire, subjected to high magnetic fields and more." Unlikely many desktop PCs suffer from "been dropped, moistened, exposed to fire, subjected to high magnetic fields". The highest physical impact to arms and heads IMO is parking. Be that as it may. Back to the original topic. Let's assume that neither parking heads is an issue, nor static electricity. When using a hot swap drive bay instead of a boot loader, to multi-boot between several operating systems, the chances are good, that soon or later a HDD will be dropped. For a home used desktop PC backups and archiving data done by a hot swap drive bay and/or drives in external enclosures makes sense. OTOH IMO it's not a good approach to multi-boot. To avoid physical risks it's way better to use internal drives, let alone that it's way more comfortable. If multi-boot means that the OP just wants to test a few operating systems or seldom wants to use different operating systems, than a hot swap drive bay and/or drives in external enclosures and/or even USB sticks, SD cards etc. make sense. "Really" often used operating systems are better a part of desktop PC and aren't treat by a games console cartridge approach. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 06:29:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F8843F566 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:29:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c50005351111.685a60f2f1bb6d4f67447aa530408826@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CL1yX1C4vz4NGh for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:29:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c50005351111.685a60f2f1bb6d4f67447aa530408826@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1603780175; x=1606372175; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=iJdCuHDGTTSnsf/6aQWW6s71AbLKdV3TmzTa4Gs/oBo=; b=AXQKAC3V8cQwTk/HhhSEUI7Kh/p6fwHwDLnz1cHkzE0xKhyT8v3lSDMXjOkU75/Vp468RJpNleIFn/5WAO8aul6zSp46PqbDmTE3MmO9WdEHh5ZDsQOxqQO2DnxoLN2umYGGub6UPUeEVryHXZj6Jux5jQWmbtCUxVlxiBFt8cQ= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjNTAwMDUzNTExMTEuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.1]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:29:31 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:28:00 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kXIUA-0000BD-FF for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:29:34 +0000 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:29:34 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-Id: <20201027062934.d0bd53b0192c33a18491b636@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20201027071230.0c60b09b@archlinux> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> <20201026180155.48690495@archlinux> <20201026230836.5cd9e0dc@gumby.homeunix.com> <20201027071230.0c60b09b@archlinux> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CL1yX1C4vz4NGh X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=AXQKAC3V; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c50005351111.685a60f2f1bb6d4f67447aa530408826@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c50005351111.685a60f2f1bb6d4f67447aa530408826@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.96 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.984]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.962]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.31)[-0.314]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c50005351111.685a60f2f1bb6d4f67447aa530408826@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c50005351111.685a60f2f1bb6d4f67447aa530408826@email-od.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:29:41 -0000 On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:12:30 +0100 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > If multi-boot means that the OP just wants to test a few operating > systems or seldom wants to use different operating systems, than a hot > swap drive bay and/or drives in external enclosures and/or even USB > sticks, SD cards etc. make sense. "Really" often used operating systems > are better a part of desktop PC and aren't treat by a games console > cartridge approach. If the OS is really often used then it would probably make more sense, and be far more convenient, to have it available in a VM than to multi-boot. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 07:03:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6752440366 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:03:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CL2jZ6QP5z4QB5 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:03:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CL2jT4X37zFpCV for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 00:03:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603782205; bh=rO7KbQjfM7BEBTtKYcsrpMYs3DfLtNpv0LtpVDB0q5s=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=d9ihoT2e0actdUoxpqEYTlT88kcFNTQgTmS3TXDNQR7gJaqeX5hchhBIdHP0y/2Bv GNneZHcwLltlEHVz4lwNGPzB3GsIlBSVmpSCCDLLRa2Amh9Q/xLLOnSJkvk/eWCzJp 35hppG665Dlp2wtIrmfLatIL3KKkzLZxucIgFIMY= X-Riseup-User-ID: D4A9DDAE802BCB9DC8BE334D98BF7A844629415EFBA91AEAC33319E377F7F1B4 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CL2jS6fZ0zJnc4 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 00:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 08:03:05 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201027080305.4853e10d@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20201027062934.d0bd53b0192c33a18491b636@sohara.org> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> <20201026180155.48690495@archlinux> <20201026230836.5cd9e0dc@gumby.homeunix.com> <20201027071230.0c60b09b@archlinux> <20201027062934.d0bd53b0192c33a18491b636@sohara.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CL2jZ6QP5z4QB5 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=d9ihoT2e; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.46 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.897]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.967]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.992]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:03:31 -0000 On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:29:34 +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >If the OS is really often used then it would probably make more >sense, and be far more convenient, to have it available in a VM than to >multi-boot. If possible, yes! Proprietary drivers and other issues could be show stoppers. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 07:13:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE09440D38 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:13:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mail.foucry.net (mail.foucry.net [IPv6:2a01:4f9:4a:1fd8::17]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CL2wg70bGz4Qp3 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:13:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mail.foucry.net (unknown [192.168.12.17]) by mail.foucry.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 064CA31FC3 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:12:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at foucry.net Received: from mail.foucry.net ([192.168.12.17]) by mail.foucry.net (mail.foucry.net [192.168.12.17]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OuAe5zAEvWrN for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:12:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.foucry.net (Postfix, from userid 58) id B3AF931FA1; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:12:44 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=foucry.net; s=dkim; t=1603782764; bh=vDi+oh0At29fF5rgJcClCz0nkwpCvRV6M/saUCRYMNY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=qfMkkrF5yQ+68Ek6RTuptMBTUW5HXPrAvyHkn4GfHanH7LXqonybNhiwSEcRYtqgZ s+WVCdwG5YsuDc6FMrZK6lreue12pQO27UJ5XdYLWBPPh5Lx3mWZd6N8IfsiY8BY4G wpT/gKik8nJG+fbnFtxcrIMGf9+lBSbRYm2Zz68c= Received: from mithril.localdomain (82-65-174-130.subs.proxad.net [82.65.174.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.foucry.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2DA8531F99; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:12:42 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=foucry.net; s=dkim; t=1603782762; bh=vDi+oh0At29fF5rgJcClCz0nkwpCvRV6M/saUCRYMNY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=oiD1SExrecq7mh7WE5/IU4ZYpGz9yIwSmruSY8e/qt9QkW7OiBeY+JepBUMGnR7D2 OXcE53BE9I8o1NB2KXC1arEdZwAX8xtK9VAe3TUIwc7S3gAs9y8oQYJ7UYmFpXXypX gJnzUw/9VlAJec+Jg98KwMp1vyyr6Ku337gLjRMg= Received: from mithril (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mithril.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5069819C05; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 08:12:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 08:12:41 +0100 From: Jacques Foucry To: RW Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? [a little bit off topic] Message-ID: <20201027071241.GB84789@mithril> Mail-Followup-To: RW , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> <20201026204524.7959ae0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <7256578c-3ad2-2a21-f904-474a5ba7d6a6@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20201026231422.1b03652d@gumby.homeunix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20201026231422.1b03652d@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CL2wg70bGz4Qp3 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=foucry.net header.s=dkim header.b=qfMkkrF5; dkim=pass header.d=foucry.net header.s=dkim header.b=oiD1SExr; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=foucry.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jacques@foucry.net designates 2a01:4f9:4a:1fd8::17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jacques@foucry.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.49 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[foucry.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[foucry.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.970]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[googlemail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[82.65.174.130:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.011]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[foucry.net:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.004]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:13:09 -0000 Le lundi 26 oct. 2020 à 23:14:22 (+0000), RW via freebsd-questions à écrit: > On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 16:25:10 -0500 > Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > > > > Note that I was talking specifically about head parking rather then > > > power cycling in general. Your anecdote is about power cycling, not > > > specifically parking. > > > > > > > Is parking heads not just powering off magnet that positions heads on > > data tracks? > > On shutdown hard drives turn their spindle motor into a generator to > power the parking. Parking is clearly not passive. Whaou… I know parking is not automatic, but when I learned computing we had to use the command `park` to really park the HDD head and we eared a very spacial sound telling the head have be really parked, before turning off the computer (Micral 80/22 G, around 1984) Thanks for the come back in old days… :-) -- Jacques Foucry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 13:45:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B3544E68F for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:45:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) Received: from srv.fastssdserver.com (srv.fastssdserver.com [162.223.31.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLCcr08Lmz4rc2 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:44:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=beepc.ch; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BH3ci9bHValn3Ha6Mn/t1swHfl3j7qzYtrD1y48EdMU=; b=bsbjPwp2gDtlkdlWzTqbQWeUpI VSxOjJ4ZptIBibfmsUbP+4IC9EIfd2hLL1PVIruLpvmnctee8wr2LDTKYoBgWYOfgsWVNnuSNhSeJ no+zNLZvDYrShw/wyAUsSMF+ASK7NxqUHmbW2rEUKxc0tR/7wvuZ0EszNfV2xD/8/0j3waUI2mnwN 2rAPmnMBtAtRbJj36mZlcp8UtwaqJAtjt5t10K2hb/f3IT6HiwX5s2QBbPHOR0VOq6RdsVnIU1iM9 G2MUnY/ovVcJhJEzFGYQO67J2cSBDj7UbhN0XwKYDS+1hS0tdOFgSI1Og7aYbdpq1pzgM50q4H+wE UoNwdRgw==; Received: from 37.245.43.185.wifx.net ([185.43.245.37]:45230 helo=[192.168.1.242]) by srv.fastssdserver.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kXPHQ-005JKx-A1; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 18:44:52 +0500 Subject: Re: move zfs geli encrypt mirror to unencrypted To: Steve O'Hara-Smith , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <66e2f2da-af22-766a-cc7a-78c29735e39f@beepc.ch> <20200916153611.abaaa06edad1738c9c4c381e@sohara.org> From: xpetrl Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:44:50 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200916153611.abaaa06edad1738c9c4c381e@sohara.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - srv.fastssdserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - beepc.ch X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: srv.fastssdserver.com: authenticated_id: xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Authenticated-Sender: srv.fastssdserver.com: xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLCcr08Lmz4rc2 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=beepc.ch header.s=default header.b=bsbjPwp2; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of xpetrl@beepc.ch designates 162.223.31.2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.67 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[beepc.ch:s=default]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[beepc.ch]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.993]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[beepc.ch:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.17)[-0.173]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:46261, ipnet:162.223.28.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:45:01 -0000 > xpetrl wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> We have a server with 4 disks, 2 zpool are zfs mirror: >> >> - base system unencrypted, partitions (da*p2) >> - data storage, geli encrypted, partitions (da*p4) >> >> We now want to "move" the data storage (encrypt) to unencrypted partition. > > Do you still want the encrypted partitions ? If not the simplest > thing to do would be to detach the encrypted devices (daNp4.eli) one at a > time and attach the unencrypted device (daNp4) in its place, wait for the > resilver and repeat for the other devices in the zvol. > Detached one drive daNp4.eli, then I didn't found how to attach daNp4: zpool attach encrypt 3680521480316264201 /dev/da3p4 cannot attach /dev/da3p4 to 3680521480316264201: no such pool or dataset I could just attach (again) daNp4.eli: zpool attach encrypt 3680521480316264201 /dev/da3p4.eli Do I miss a step? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 14:02:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A8044EE81 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:02:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c500054089a8.6d963fcc01837eee9894c506204d22f6@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLD1T1sF5z4sML for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:02:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c500054089a8.6d963fcc01837eee9894c506204d22f6@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1603807368; x=1606399368; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=F4ryZbcJwV1V0deDX7Dfml8U5FezQnRNKhyeXptCltU=; b=gDZtvRxcLPoKpXfM/lZmodTi5D/Ly5be2oBaH9+7o8tFs2Nv/M0BFeIDAf7KVAOLKgT8Deh9VjsLuNwU5ebc94ujhvQWOuMcJZtKvVoXD+TNdDPob99721I2f0ZhhCO0bbjDq7S0L8sWKlcyc9YWKKlLZQVvmgwFZLHlR0yGODM= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjNTAwMDU0MDg5YTguZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.1]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:02:43 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:01:11 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kXPYj-000C7W-7D; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:02:45 +0000 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:02:44 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: xpetrl Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: move zfs geli encrypt mirror to unencrypted Message-Id: <20201027140244.e16da5e379dc4001c5810c51@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <66e2f2da-af22-766a-cc7a-78c29735e39f@beepc.ch> <20200916153611.abaaa06edad1738c9c4c381e@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLD1T1sF5z4sML X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=gDZtvRxc; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c500054089a8.6d963fcc01837eee9894c506204d22f6@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c500054089a8.6d963fcc01837eee9894c506204d22f6@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.49 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.020]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.77)[-0.772]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c500054089a8.6d963fcc01837eee9894c506204d22f6@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c500054089a8.6d963fcc01837eee9894c506204d22f6@email-od.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:02:54 -0000 On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:44:50 +0100 xpetrl wrote: > > xpetrl wrote: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> We have a server with 4 disks, 2 zpool are zfs mirror: > >> > >> - base system unencrypted, partitions (da*p2) > >> - data storage, geli encrypted, partitions (da*p4) > >> > >> We now want to "move" the data storage (encrypt) to unencrypted > >> partition. > > > > Do you still want the encrypted partitions ? If not the simplest > > thing to do would be to detach the encrypted devices (daNp4.eli) one at > > a time and attach the unencrypted device (daNp4) in its place, wait for > > the resilver and repeat for the other devices in the zvol. > > > > Detached one drive daNp4.eli, then I didn't found how to attach daNp4: > > zpool attach encrypt 3680521480316264201 /dev/da3p4 I presume encrypt is the pool name, but what is 3680521480316264201 ? If you post the output of zpool status I'll be able to work out the right command line to use. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 14:07:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD5844F102 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:07:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) Received: from srv.fastssdserver.com (srv.fastssdserver.com [162.223.31.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLD7K4hFNz4slc for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:07:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=beepc.ch; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=rYPpAu2AW2J1lmanY+DSwL5utMx84UgSmIJCtw7UR4Q=; b=pKPVMt/6BvSG/caMr7bymf34I2 GljaIEHWD087BkMxHGw4bKVMt7jN84ncDzLPnQg92EETBeDF/vem2Ee1n+ikU6RnX4kKrWRpXqRqF pd3mBayDSpskeIqWA9bGodakQw+6smSApkFNO+AZoSbw/jx9HEnTxw+L8rhXnJS8hHk+TRTp8ufSq F7B19S0riuPuWnd6KmhxeJvqydJXcyaGAKz8FrpPn1Qse+OcgN7x/TuVagSyeSsfdUW4E77GeHGbu UVK/kLoCF8wazGI0zanMbtsFv6otwn1POtsadCCnEV13RM0WxHf5GZewdJH3vmwuOAfDAYFVPng+f mjTOHTKg==; Received: from [185.43.245.37] (port=45694 helo=[192.168.1.242]) by srv.fastssdserver.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kXPdk-005N5m-E2; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:07:56 +0500 Subject: Re: move zfs geli encrypt mirror to unencrypted To: Steve O'Hara-Smith Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <66e2f2da-af22-766a-cc7a-78c29735e39f@beepc.ch> <20200916153611.abaaa06edad1738c9c4c381e@sohara.org> <20201027140244.e16da5e379dc4001c5810c51@sohara.org> From: xpetrl Message-ID: <318d505d-695c-6889-5498-fcf64fc058f0@beepc.ch> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:07:54 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201027140244.e16da5e379dc4001c5810c51@sohara.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - srv.fastssdserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - beepc.ch X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: srv.fastssdserver.com: authenticated_id: xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Authenticated-Sender: srv.fastssdserver.com: xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLD7K4hFNz4slc X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=beepc.ch header.s=default header.b=pKPVMt/6; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of xpetrl@beepc.ch designates 162.223.31.2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.67 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[beepc.ch:s=default]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:c]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[beepc.ch]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.993]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[beepc.ch:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.18)[-0.177]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:46261, ipnet:162.223.28.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:07:58 -0000 On 10/27/20 3:02 PM, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:44:50 +0100 > xpetrl wrote: > >>> xpetrl wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> We have a server with 4 disks, 2 zpool are zfs mirror: >>>> >>>> - base system unencrypted, partitions (da*p2) >>>> - data storage, geli encrypted, partitions (da*p4) >>>> >>>> We now want to "move" the data storage (encrypt) to unencrypted >>>> partition. >>> >>> Do you still want the encrypted partitions ? If not the simplest >>> thing to do would be to detach the encrypted devices (daNp4.eli) one at >>> a time and attach the unencrypted device (daNp4) in its place, wait for >>> the resilver and repeat for the other devices in the zvol. >>> >> >> Detached one drive daNp4.eli, then I didn't found how to attach daNp4: >> >> zpool attach encrypt 3680521480316264201 /dev/da3p4 > > I presume encrypt is the pool name, but what is > 3680521480316264201 ? guid Yes, encrypt is the pool name. # zdb -l /dev/da0p4.eli [...] children[2]: type: 'disk' id: 2 guid: 3680521480316264201 path: '/dev/da2p4.eli' whole_disk: 1 DTL: 350 create_txg: 4 > > If you post the output of zpool status I'll be able to work out the > right command line to use. > # gpart show => 40 23437770672 da0 GPT (11T) 40 2008 - free - (1.0M) 2048 1024 1 freebsd-boot (512K) 3072 1024 - free - (512K) 4096 352321536 2 freebsd-zfs (168G) 352325632 4194304 3 freebsd-swap (2.0G) 356519936 23068672000 4 freebsd-zfs (11T) 23425191936 12578776 - free - (6.0G) => 40 23437770672 da1 GPT (11T) 40 2008 - free - (1.0M) 2048 1024 1 freebsd-boot (512K) 3072 1024 - free - (512K) 4096 352321536 2 freebsd-zfs (168G) 352325632 4194304 3 freebsd-swap (2.0G) 356519936 23068672000 4 freebsd-zfs (11T) 23425191936 12578776 - free - (6.0G) (the same output is for the next 2 disks, da2 and da3) # zpool status pool: encrypt state: ONLINE scan: scrub repaired 0 in 0 days 04:02:26 with 0 errors on Fri Sep 4 18:08:21 2020 config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM encrypt ONLINE 0 0 0 mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 da0p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 da1p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 da2p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 da3p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors pool: zroot state: ONLINE scan: scrub repaired 0 in 0 days 00:06:21 with 0 errors on Fri Sep 4 14:12:09 2020 config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM zroot ONLINE 0 0 0 mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 da0p2 ONLINE 0 0 0 da1p2 ONLINE 0 0 0 da2p2 ONLINE 0 0 0 da3p2 ONLINE 0 0 0 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 14:18:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4559644F352 for ; 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Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:18:37 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:17:06 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kXPo8-000Cie-Om; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:18:40 +0000 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:18:40 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: xpetrl Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: move zfs geli encrypt mirror to unencrypted Message-Id: <20201027141840.2203f582cbad56e896accf00@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <318d505d-695c-6889-5498-fcf64fc058f0@beepc.ch> References: <66e2f2da-af22-766a-cc7a-78c29735e39f@beepc.ch> <20200916153611.abaaa06edad1738c9c4c381e@sohara.org> <20201027140244.e16da5e379dc4001c5810c51@sohara.org> <318d505d-695c-6889-5498-fcf64fc058f0@beepc.ch> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLDN04HNQz4t6l X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=iiHhl3Q/; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c500054100d5.22b9d9fd0b5b3668c2b621ed0cf50df7@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c500054100d5.22b9d9fd0b5b3668c2b621ed0cf50df7@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.49 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.020]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.77)[-0.772]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c500054100d5.22b9d9fd0b5b3668c2b621ed0cf50df7@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c500054100d5.22b9d9fd0b5b3668c2b621ed0cf50df7@email-od.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:18:57 -0000 On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:07:54 +0100 xpetrl wrote: > NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM > encrypt ONLINE 0 0 0 > mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da0p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 > da1p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 > da2p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 > da3p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 Great and you have detached da3p4.eli so you want to run zpool attach encrypt da0p4.eli da3p4 You can use any device in the mirror as the first argument. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 14:38:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9731244FF8B for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:38:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) Received: from srv.fastssdserver.com (srv.fastssdserver.com [162.223.31.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLDpc62Knz4vZq for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:38:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=beepc.ch; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KMkquzwX/DfP1QcwlNyD4Fs1rP3/7shKPSbk2CK6msI=; b=uNIwessdT7rYE66tM3YQ+Lgxlq jFyXVbfwW6Lu3Ezm6Y2CMoqUbEw6OhP8tVBMOG4oEsbM0icc7fqmFz1mPpVEVmObTS/BB3GmF3OcN oR1gzZLdhnAmfPtU2BSlHksWShKSIIDJyewBKEEwGD6sXzf3fri6hNh3PZN9+xTBrhdd73jMLjBkF m2S9Q+x9oYQya3lxTpVnoARmCAv8LJP/b3qTvr2SPvPv4KtECURfIliIlhbQO2ni0zHQx62y7sFq1 7w0o7jrtw1IFXibZoesuNMUsSoUBCO4W3hcoZVS9n/cPZ3lfZv/9cW2fkiCBLhWH+aD1xC3ImVlr9 rq/mASNQ==; 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dkim=pass header.d=beepc.ch header.s=default header.b=uNIwessd; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of xpetrl@beepc.ch designates 162.223.31.2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.45 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[beepc.ch:s=default]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:c]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[beepc.ch]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[beepc.ch:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.959]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:46261, ipnet:162.223.28.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:38:33 -0000 On 10/27/20 3:18 PM, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:07:54 +0100 > xpetrl wrote: > >> NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM >> encrypt ONLINE 0 0 0 >> mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 >> da0p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 >> da1p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 >> da2p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 >> da3p4.eli ONLINE 0 0 0 > > Great and you have detached da3p4.eli so you want to run > > zpool attach encrypt da0p4.eli da3p4 > > You can use any device in the mirror as the first argument. > I've a resilver in progress, because I attached (again) the da3p4.eli, I've to wait a couple of hours. Thanks anyways, I'll try that command. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 15:01:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0296A450F23 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:01:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c5000541b4c6.c000bbc1dbfe77c6d683e309dd535c77@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLFJz0kq9z3T1j for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:01:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c5000541b4c6.c000bbc1dbfe77c6d683e309dd535c77@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1603810878; x=1606402878; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=6iAqlnoH2oJOBMehJTyenf/DndXDEKOsaure1S0kyQk=; b=cCY7bH3Aejhoc09aq6MrOMTmdsvsHGYV8TgMfHOZuAuvENxY9VwpjlwoINTtHaBtEFgzZtKl/BeVp3nEZ2oo0J6yDixc726dOkN7yPMO5XMR6ZnIkRSvflN+kRjmH7jrMsahdTehrgQZiNkcuV2Y/0SdoEZj240A9PlXMLBEtwc= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjNTAwMDU0MWI0YzYuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.3]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 11:01:11 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 11:00:35 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kXQTJ-000DiN-H0; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:01:13 +0000 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:01:13 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: xpetrl Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: move zfs geli encrypt mirror to unencrypted Message-Id: <20201027150113.02bb5038af557d7dbe2833d4@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <66e2f2da-af22-766a-cc7a-78c29735e39f@beepc.ch> <20200916153611.abaaa06edad1738c9c4c381e@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLFJz0kq9z3T1j X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=cCY7bH3A; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c5000541b4c6.c000bbc1dbfe77c6d683e309dd535c77@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c5000541b4c6.c000bbc1dbfe77c6d683e309dd535c77@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.02 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.020]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.30)[-1.301]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c5000541b4c6.c000bbc1dbfe77c6d683e309dd535c77@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c5000541b4c6.c000bbc1dbfe77c6d683e309dd535c77@email-od.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:01:24 -0000 On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:44:50 +0100 xpetrl wrote: > Do I miss a step? It just hit me that geli may be blocking access to the raw device, you probably need to geli detach it before you can use it. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 23:36:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE5A45DA23 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:36:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) Received: from srv.fastssdserver.com (srv.fastssdserver.com [162.223.31.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLSkq56n4z4MTw for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:36:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=beepc.ch; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=+mb1aXQYyWq5i9dIAyCk0jpp7R7CoofwYsL4saRDyI4=; b=il3elt4pbrv6U/yahxnt75MeWA MVlFSy5lF2YnDr6tCWMenISt/INVY4yQCEeRqO1utOwIr7m7LOHm5B2dyNV3x7NnphPpLPvebiNBT c0Q2byU/zoBFAlHJAekpnZyMDbLUTE6hY9gIVXL1n/NB3k5PmSNRBxb0g8aWNFZjPEuUKwTQfTmOw Rlt0n/GnS0Bz6J2SlO90+4qtFtS/gL98JW4cT93ftVgpYoVqnz9VIF9bM7OaqguXAAkQfJRsIFoGT vY3Ptvq5EnCM82+60K6GzxEhqJvRbaxrtO2ZYBH92CfqPADVPfN3Wuwyfq4+ECaz2gxz2szZEnxYC 1tDqoe0A==; Received: from [185.20.202.205] (port=40382 helo=[192.168.100.242]) by srv.fastssdserver.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kXYVV-0072TI-TE; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 04:36:02 +0500 Subject: Re: move zfs geli encrypt mirror to unencrypted To: Steve O'Hara-Smith Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <66e2f2da-af22-766a-cc7a-78c29735e39f@beepc.ch> <20200916153611.abaaa06edad1738c9c4c381e@sohara.org> <20201027150113.02bb5038af557d7dbe2833d4@sohara.org> From: xpetrl Message-ID: <0e84c674-386d-bc75-e591-aae32b49284e@beepc.ch> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 00:35:59 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201027150113.02bb5038af557d7dbe2833d4@sohara.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - srv.fastssdserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - beepc.ch X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: srv.fastssdserver.com: authenticated_id: xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Authenticated-Sender: srv.fastssdserver.com: xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLSkq56n4z4MTw X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=beepc.ch header.s=default header.b=il3elt4p; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of xpetrl@beepc.ch designates 162.223.31.2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[beepc.ch:s=default]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[beepc.ch]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.010]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[beepc.ch:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.49)[-0.485]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:46261, ipnet:162.223.28.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:36:04 -0000 On 10/27/20 4:01 PM, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:44:50 +0100 > xpetrl wrote: > >> Do I miss a step? > > It just hit me that geli may be blocking access to the raw device, > you probably need to geli detach it before you can use it. > Bingo! I was missing geli detach. Thank you very much From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 00:05:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C07145E5B7 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 00:05:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.107.128.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLTNZ22KKz4P7l for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 00:05:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8709C8E178 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:57:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (doug@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 09RNv5F9043777 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:57:05 GMT (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 09RNv5ta043774 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:57:05 GMT (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: doug owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:57:05 +0000 (UTC) From: doug@safeport.com X-X-Sender: doug@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: doug@fledge.watson.org To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? In-Reply-To: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLTNZ22KKz4P7l X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of doug@safeport.com does not designate 204.107.128.30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=doug@safeport.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.64 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[doug@fledge.watson.org]; REPLYTO_DN_EQ_FROM_DN(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11288, ipnet:204.107.128.0/24, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(1.00)[-all:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.38)[0.375]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[safeport.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.86)[0.861]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; VIOLATED_DIRECT_SPF(3.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.90)[0.901]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 00:05:19 -0000 On Sat, 24 Oct 2020, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 02:51:25 -0700, TheBigBlue Guard wrote: >> Yes ...everyone...What is the "better /best and least expensive " method(s) >> to mult-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT virtual boxes like VirtualPC >> or DOSBox etc. I was seriously thinking about mult-booting 5-6 different >> operating systems including freeBSD..... > > Depends. On sooo many things... ;-) > > Is your computer using BIOS or UEFI? Do you have MBR or GPT > partitions in place? Shall the different systems be aware of > each other? Is it intended for them to share resources? > > If you can answer with "yes", "yes", and "let's see", the > following article is probably quite helpful for you: > > https://github.com/bourne-again/TripleBoot-UEFI > > For this to be valid, I simply assume that you have a sufficiently > recent PC that no longer uses a BIOS, and you will prepare your > disks using GPT. Those are a lot of assumtions, though. And as I > said initially, there is no definite answer, because the question > contains too many variables. Does not compute. :-) > Great link - thank you. I am generally only interested in dual booting a new laptop. I suppose booting from a usb might be feasible but I have enough trouble making sure I have the charging stuff, a network extender, and ethernet cables without adding to that. For me, if I hit any issue with a desktop its bye-bye winders assuming I thought about keep it. I would be interested in opinions on the best hard disks. I agree here you get what you pay for. I have two NAS appliances with Western Digital. On the older one two disks have gone bad in what seems to me not that long. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 06:37:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A42443DE53 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:37:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLf4l1xmbz3SZJ for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:37:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLf4X5rsbzFtNG for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:37:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603867020; bh=0Yu3dMu12YRR4SziubPk5UGMN+1onx9EGV/9e2OGyl4=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=N4WY4sLphCFbvbx2mweo9WTbCl1iLUjmYpkmvnlStOYY8EC6GnR+qDSMn24ZQtdAu u1YD4i4u3pqYPgNf3+Vd7tIPDQ/SNTOnF5NwWAHnIr88yZM/i3X2rOSj1+q7ABNqzX 461wOp8Ud6Ptblqk+MvUHemAyVu9m8VurbUk6JoE= X-Riseup-User-ID: 215C38E5643303C16501FF56C6C1EBF11AA704041BFBC1A8C0BAD2CFC152881C Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CLf4X1BwczJmgH for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 07:36:44 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLf4l1xmbz3SZJ X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=N4WY4sLp; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.35)[-0.351]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.978]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.05)[-1.046]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:37:12 -0000 On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:57:05 +0000 (UTC), doug@safeport.com wrote: >I would be interested in opinions on the best hard disks. ^^^^^^^^ a good chosen word, since not many undisputed facts do exist In my experiences a batch of series x of vendor y could be very good or bad and for the next batch it could be vice versa or a good series is discontinued. Interesting are statistics from Google. I don't have a link at hand, but I remember that they successfully used consumer instead of enterprise disks and IIRC what Google experienced with countless disks, was similar to my experiences with just a few disks. I read an article years ago. IOW related to the lifespan it seems to be a lotto draw. Related to performance simple technical facts and clear measurements do exist. It was already hinted by this thread. Shingled magnetic recording makes drives inexpensive, because it does increase storage capacity. Due to the procedure it is required to rewrite tracks, which results in performance lags. Different SMR drives suffer from different performance lags. However, more expensive drives, not using SMR technology tend to be faster when writing data. In the end you need to read a lot of papers and decide on your own what is "the best" for you or in your opinion. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 08:11:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E24743EF78 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:11:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from mailout.qeng-ho.org (mailout.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.244]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLh9M2X5Xz3X0k for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:11:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (unknown [IPv6:2a02:8010:64c9:1::2]) by mailout.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91CA02E08A; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:11:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? To: Ralf Mardorf , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:11:10 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLh9M2X5Xz3X0k X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.244 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.37 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.995]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.04)[-1.044]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.026]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:11:20 -0000 On 28/10/2020 06:36, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:57:05 +0000 (UTC), doug@safeport.com wrote: >> I would be interested in opinions on the best hard disks. > ^^^^^^^^ > a good chosen word, since not many > undisputed facts do exist > > In my experiences a batch of series x of vendor y could be very good or > bad and for the next batch it could be vice versa or a good series is > discontinued. Interesting are statistics from Google. I don't have a > link at hand, but I remember that they successfully used consumer > instead of enterprise disks and IIRC what Google experienced with > countless disks, was similar to my experiences with just a few disks. I > read an article years ago. I suspect you mean Backblaze rather than Google. Here's a link to their page on hard drives https://www.backblaze.com/b2/hard-drive-test-data.html You can get to the quarterly stats and useful hints from there. > IOW related to the lifespan it seems to be a lotto draw. > > Related to performance simple technical facts and clear measurements > do exist. It was already hinted by this thread. > > Shingled magnetic recording makes drives inexpensive, because it does > increase storage capacity. Due to the procedure it is required to > rewrite tracks, which results in performance lags. Different SMR drives > suffer from different performance lags. However, more expensive drives, > not using SMR technology tend to be faster when writing data. > > In the end you need to read a lot of papers and decide on your own what > is "the best" for you or in your opinion. And know that will change a few months later anyway. :-) -- The number of people predicting the demise of Moore's Law doubles every 18 months. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 13:01:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55304446655 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 13:01:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLpcH2SNZz458B for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 13:01:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.38.125]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N4vFE-1kQ6542PdU-010vV9; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:01:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:01:25 +0100 From: Polytropon To: doug@fledge.watson.org Cc: doug@safeport.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-Id: <20201028140125.2e85379f.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:pw2h0p85uWajR0mnbgWbF2oMajUpMVDp6eHdM+elvnCsqtzH1TK DTtLSUOLqMS509mlLegVsKyP/io4QtPYnnjFEBHML+UzjV6VYbUhCnpJJ1DHuj+kLNtkok7 f9Qb+KfGLTd2nhsSOQsV2vLX1doBSOEnWaUWUmJdlKdbwGHkte+nEZG72QumOgfXkcVcssg lsn+pF34xMHfTPM2N6q8w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:GiQstCGij1A=:yYEH7fk9Zhi3PQxJn5pbDP RWy/+Fjhq+yi4lHS3lXP9A9etDynRlLctdqwQjUXqOOnJLJ1iv3LkzvFVsytiE1m46s6n4EIg XkXUsG0oO9BmtWPqo5JokFf+LZ6BEF9hrwJVn1BffpUw4OKANumE1m3Zmi2A0IOrF/R9DN2nH NxxOzncvxIJwxp2BpTlF6FwjWWnaPbwqqzL4urE/t4fkeTi+OwxRFTKY3zIcj6wSElrBKJfB0 pk07b6vmKr1JRSoI2LMMg/thGJNhaqYdQxxlxx3AuTmedcOY3hXiZbhrIm9KDL6IqhLMgheg7 oRZ1ylf0gv7JkEX/v5sqTW4gQKVqV/WgN32oZB4jWl6NtYH+lXCNyklL8EacLiEKaq9tXETVF 4CXl6F0mCskjdpPzvRbR/ypV/vRh845GELQgop8x2dW1oxLGXSn0WCATJgeJh X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLpcH2SNZz458B X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.187) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.06 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.13)[-0.131]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.12.38.125:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.36)[-0.362]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.16)[0.156]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 13:01:36 -0000 On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 23:57:05 +0000 (UTC), doug@safeport.com wrote: > I would be interested in opinions on the best hard disks. I agree here you > get what you pay for. I have two NAS appliances with Western Digital. On > the older one two disks have gone bad in what seems to me not that long. Again, depends. :-) As the hard disk manufacturers meanwhile have bought each other, there is little actual choice, despite many different brand names. With WD, I've always had great results (live long, work good). In the past, I also used Seagate and Toshiba. The last one, who bought Hitachi, who bought IBM, was the one with the less impressive results, especially for 2.5" laptop disks. Of course, this is not a problem anymore, as I prefer to use SSDs there. Hard disks still have their place in _mass_ storage systems. Probably WD and Seagate are good to use. Maybe the following statistics are interesting to you: https://www.backblaze.com/b2/hard-drive-test-data.html https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-hard-drive-stats-q3-2020/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/category/cloud-storage/hard-drive-stats/ BackBlaze offers a lot of such data. Always see this in relation to your own workload and use cases. You can also see the statistics archives in order to see how things might have changed for particular brands. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 13:17:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B62AA44686F for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 13:17:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLpz34X4Bz461Q for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 13:17:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.38.125]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MLRDv-1kpZ2917bv-00IVtg; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:17:46 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:17:45 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Arthur Chance Cc: Ralf Mardorf , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-Id: <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:7kkH2VJwBv0QK8IkkMPhNWg+CI5mjmhsWFedqMIEdkSA6aB1vtt I9zs0nA10hsymm8ZHPfBhf+migv01D4X4I7ivosFSGDkBkAHngR6L9cctZ/ZTLE7T798kHx eXN33eUuVukJun4NAfudKbb1LWZAtNLSEW7hkiUYD1XrKmkWZiDoxo1NyE8UWt5amYSUO9X pC0a/ZY0wdleAvLnUUN2w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:M1nDs1stzoU=:xHi0fLWTjemDxWGZNWMhMx Ds5hB2q0+BQFLgjnffHEvBHz1y0p0UsD22/wEaHFMEhyg4khaAo2NZpTiQmSnbojVXttt3xL+ EY5U3wvKjD8J34DpZax7wbMoG3b8iF5Pl2ppgPfwss8zcRUMai9UCzaw3fAG3qiYlMz88OnVp LnB7wci2NtcPMlLx+qjI7+2bRUFaftmzIegbb3eMwvTAd+cvBZqzRLGS6hbTNOMf81q68uh2N o75iE9UB7td7kl4Ju+25b5jaOem0XqGGP8QX0vhczwyEdPM/LkpKaY+0aHeMw4oIOYdqFw01r 8EJRfOqzm/VLOgaLOXXnzhTg7vRT7xVIP/Em1FcZaYs0NvVtURceytloR//zI25mc1G9LQodm I2STPwdTEYze8AVnAeDEInA6PXc2oswxXNkxPwTV/NrfI4mLq8ZRACEGIhllf X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLpz34X4Bz461Q X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.130) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.47 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.21)[-0.213]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.12.38.125:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.19)[-0.190]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.53)[-0.530]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.130:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.130:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 13:17:52 -0000 On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:11:10 +0000, Arthur Chance wrote: > On 28/10/2020 06:36, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > [...] > > In the end you need to read a lot of papers and decide on your own what > > is "the best" for you or in your opinion. > > And know that will change a few months later anyway. :-) If you are lucky (and do your homework!), you should be able to settle for hardware that will work good for a long time, rather than buying something for $$$$$ that is "the best" for two weeks, then discovered as having faulty firmware, and break & brick entirely after 6 months... ;-) Personally, I prefer "good for a long time" over "best for a short time", but for whatever you decide, the moment you make the choice, there will be new options for (probably) better choices, and if it's just "the same for less money". So in the end, you'll have something that works, but be angry because you could have had something better for less money. Researching and buying hardware is no fun anymore. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 14:22:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1CEB447FFA for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:22:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from mailout.qeng-ho.org (mailout.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.244]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLrPZ0gqfz4Bs0 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:22:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (unknown [IPv6:2a02:8010:64c9:1::2]) by mailout.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0B12E092; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:22:23 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? To: Polytropon Cc: Ralf Mardorf , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <98d2bb99-f2d0-004c-b342-05fbd891e9e0@qeng-ho.org> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:22:21 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLrPZ0gqfz4Bs0 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.244 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.81 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.983]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.46)[-0.460]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.07)[-1.068]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:22:27 -0000 On 28/10/2020 13:17, Polytropon wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:11:10 +0000, Arthur Chance wrote: >> On 28/10/2020 06:36, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> [...] >>> In the end you need to read a lot of papers and decide on your own what >>> is "the best" for you or in your opinion. >> >> And know that will change a few months later anyway. :-) > > If you are lucky (and do your homework!), you should be able to > settle for hardware that will work good for a long time, rather > than buying something for $$$$$ that is "the best" for two weeks, > then discovered as having faulty firmware, and break & brick > entirely after 6 months... ;-) > > Personally, I prefer "good for a long time" over "best for a > short time", but for whatever you decide, the moment you make > the choice, there will be new options for (probably) better > choices, and if it's just "the same for less money". So in the > end, you'll have something that works, but be angry because you > could have had something better for less money. As an old friend of mine remarked (~25 years ago!), if you believe in waiting a few months to buy a new computer because a better one is due soon, you'll never buy a computer because there's always a better one due soon. > Researching and buying hardware is no fun anymore. -- The number of people predicting the demise of Moore's Law doubles every 18 months. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 14:32:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895594487C3 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:32:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLrdH3v6Wz4CrV for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:32:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.231] (unknown [172.58.140.206]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D2CCD4E69A; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:26:34 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? From: Valeri Galtsev In-Reply-To: <98d2bb99-f2d0-004c-b342-05fbd891e9e0@qeng-ho.org> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:26:33 -0500 Cc: Polytropon , Ralf Mardorf , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <40F0146B-191B-4AA8-8CE2-13D7DEC0F1FD@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> <98d2bb99-f2d0-004c-b342-05fbd891e9e0@qeng-ho.org> To: Arthur Chance X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLrdH3v6Wz4CrV X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [10.76 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.01)[-0.013]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[172.58.140.206:received]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[172.58.140.206:received]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_CSS(4.00)[172.58.140.206:received]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.10)[0.099]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.08)[0.077]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:32:36 -0000 > On Oct 28, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Arthur Chance = wrote: >=20 > On 28/10/2020 13:17, Polytropon wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 08:11:10 +0000, Arthur Chance wrote: >>> On 28/10/2020 06:36, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>> [...] >>>> In the end you need to read a lot of papers and decide on your own = what >>>> is "the best" for you or in your opinion. >>>=20 >>> And know that will change a few months later anyway. :-) >>=20 >> If you are lucky (and do your homework!), you should be able to >> settle for hardware that will work good for a long time, rather >> than buying something for $$$$$ that is "the best" for two weeks, >> then discovered as having faulty firmware, and break & brick >> entirely after 6 months... ;-) >>=20 >> Personally, I prefer "good for a long time" over "best for a >> short time", but for whatever you decide, the moment you make >> the choice, there will be new options for (probably) better >> choices, and if it's just "the same for less money". So in the >> end, you'll have something that works, but be angry because you >> could have had something better for less money. >=20 > As an old friend of mine remarked (~25 years ago!), if you believe in > waiting a few months to buy a new computer because a better one is due > soon, you'll never buy a computer because there's always a better one > due soon. >=20 My boss almost 2 decades ago said: you buy new computer, but the moment = you unpack it it is already obsolete. >> Researching and buying hardware is no fun anymore. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > The number of people predicting the demise of Moore's Law doubles > every 18 months. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 14:56:55 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD5F448863 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:56:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c500056903c5.542ec550fcac412a49443f037d2519bf@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLs9L6Hjrz4FHb for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:56:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c500056903c5.542ec550fcac412a49443f037d2519bf@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1603897009; x=1606489009; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=fff4GfdmaxKq32jx1xYHT4qyfBXkWwkMD5Nn34els0c=; b=dE3ahrRlc21Ew8uTRoGukE5QkTjbZOOZdfCs6M7mQ75dJN2XSYUAZPqVYqaE14m64faW8PY3AcwQqvkfVYamZbeZs9jSdS/5Gcjizl+G4RkUYfkYnZxweY8U589GUs0FtcTKrcnUufw4gRz+fUEsYm/8Zs8hxUpx8pCeYoSBwmA= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjNTAwMDU2OTAzYzUuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.189.1]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Wed, 28 Oct 2020 10:56:43 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Wed, 28 Oct 2020 10:57:20 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kXmsY-00023T-Bj for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:56:46 +0000 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:56:46 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-Id: <20201028145646.640903ef7b37875a2b0b7347@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <40F0146B-191B-4AA8-8CE2-13D7DEC0F1FD@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> <98d2bb99-f2d0-004c-b342-05fbd891e9e0@qeng-ho.org> <40F0146B-191B-4AA8-8CE2-13D7DEC0F1FD@kicp.uchicago.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLs9L6Hjrz4FHb X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=dE3ahrRl; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c500056903c5.542ec550fcac412a49443f037d2519bf@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c500056903c5.542ec550fcac412a49443f037d2519bf@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.19 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.020]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.028]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.45)[-0.446]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c500056903c5.542ec550fcac412a49443f037d2519bf@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c500056903c5.542ec550fcac412a49443f037d2519bf@email-od.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:56:55 -0000 On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:26:33 -0500 Valeri Galtsev wrote: > My boss almost 2 decades ago said: you buy new computer, but the moment > you unpack it it is already obsolete. There are great bargains to be had among the cast-offs of those who must have the newest. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 17:09:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94EA44B7E6 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:09:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLw6n4B7yz4MfB for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:09:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.38.125]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MaHOX-1kugri1EPt-00WFQR; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 18:09:51 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 18:09:50 +0100 From: Polytropon To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-Id: <20201028180950.c6e6aff9.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20201028145646.640903ef7b37875a2b0b7347@sohara.org> References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> <98d2bb99-f2d0-004c-b342-05fbd891e9e0@qeng-ho.org> <40F0146B-191B-4AA8-8CE2-13D7DEC0F1FD@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20201028145646.640903ef7b37875a2b0b7347@sohara.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:JmgG7zOwPCr8hXxo8N241FJ7YtsU4FA3qpaAZAB3VZXi9E8hT8A pnYk5Iojpv/sM48SoApJXtT8vWY3LC17S0CPOcFLvqiF+rw0E4blfNUdenGY7qN1SCseFq2 IyZiH+P73SNpKUIgLrf9JeQ8qnwKSkoPVg2r3Oc14LMAbHUFUjG/kvWtOTKM+W8qgbCYInT ZxFq+ojBJUut7ob0BVV7Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:hi3/LGzAd1U=:Al/0JiVyvYY3tylDzgeq7Q QtUFG5KaIggkRfSgaC4C0/DXTHxkPwkPoG2BQXh2SHSgpI3v3eElGldBW4byjVUDK0Jp5OAwB JYEWsPkx/yd66CHujTaEqSGr0hf7yH9UbEh8sY3u4FKfIZx+1t9GQHd28PHXGn2dlrLSZ3lNZ YD+of/ic/+UDFGXbqnIrqZ/LSw9MHaJE1w5JlaAYrwWtdvrVyeMH/N7kjktSyrvREth96Xy/z mBV+88sAI/natiFB5PsVdDkvypAEnKRNgbth30xv5w2AD2dtzuRn5MCj+5dQPFRJ1G/1TwLr/ mTwUaxqGwisdH77YIsvLjq400p8d50CwH9JND9nheehct5xXmykTGiu6Sr0k8DFaqCUsJFgTI FT5ClJMkxOdO7VON2hbOnXqfGSbGVfXbs/d3KOAEK5V3QqJyl3r1v+cTWcVTV X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLw6n4B7yz4MfB X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.187) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.06 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.231]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.12.38.125:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.38)[-0.377]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.73)[-0.728]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:09:55 -0000 On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:56:46 +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:26:33 -0500 > Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > > My boss almost 2 decades ago said: you buy new computer, but the moment > > you unpack it it is already obsolete. You don't even have to unpack it. Just carry the box out of the store. As soon as you did that, you won't be able to sell it for the price you just bought it. :-) On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:56:46 +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > There are great bargains to be had among the cast-offs of those who > must have the newest. Damn! You discovered my secret! ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 28 17:42:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC14544C83B for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:42:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane-mx.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.io (static.214.254.202.116.clients.your-server.de [116.202.254.214]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLwr126sPz4P27 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:42:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane-mx.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kXpNa-0004Y7-7X for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 18:36:58 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Ottavio Caruso Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:36:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> <98d2bb99-f2d0-004c-b342-05fbd891e9e0@qeng-ho.org> <40F0146B-191B-4AA8-8CE2-13D7DEC0F1FD@kicp.uchicago.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.1 In-Reply-To: <40F0146B-191B-4AA8-8CE2-13D7DEC0F1FD@kicp.uchicago.edu> Content-Language: en-GB X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLwr126sPz4P27 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [8.93 / 15.00]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[static.214.254.202.116.clients.your-server.de]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.11)[0.111]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.21)[-0.209]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.03)[0.029]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; DMARC_POLICY_REJECT(2.00)[yahoo.com : SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM,reject]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,freebsd-questions@m.gmane-mx.org]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:116.202.0.0/16, country:DE]; FORGED_MUA_THUNDERBIRD_MSGID_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,freebsd-questions@m.gmane-mx.org]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:42:10 -0000 On 28/10/2020 14:26, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > My boss almost 2 decades ago said: you buy new computer, but the moment you unpack it it is already obsolete. Ludicrous as it sounds, it doesn't change the fact that it's true. -- Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 02:05:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32179457FC3 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 02:05:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [IPv6:2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "www.holgerdanske.com", Issuer "www.holgerdanske.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CM81K1DQhz3ftC for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 02:05:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 (99-100-19-101.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net [99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:TLSv1.3:Kx=any:Au=any:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 19:05:43 -0700 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: David Christensen Subject: vf1 kernel pid 609 (ntpd), jid 0, uid 0, was killed; out of swap space Message-ID: <73c9f204-8ef5-0171-bb3b-c3c34e165740@holgerdanske.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 19:05:42 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CM81K1DQhz3ftC X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com has no SPF policy when checking 2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.74 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.12)[0.120]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.52)[0.521]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.20)[0.202]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[holgerdanske.com]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 02:05:58 -0000 freebsd-questions: I have a laptop with Debian and VirtualBox: 2020-10-28 18:16:58 dpchrist@tinkywinky ~ $ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a ; VirtualBoxVM -? | head -n 1 9.13 Linux tinkywinky 4.9.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.228-1 (2020-07-05) x86_64 GNU/Linux Oracle VM VirtualBox VM Runner v6.1.16 I have created a FreeBSD virtual machine 'vf1': 2020-10-28 18:14:27 toor@vf1 ~ # freebsd-version ; uname -a 12.1-RELEASE-p10 FreeBSD vf1.tracy.holgerdanske.com 12.1-RELEASE-p10 FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p10 GENERIC amd64 I wrote a Perl library (distribution) that includes functions for invoking zfs(8) via sh(1) and ssh(1) (e.g. Perl 'system'). I am currently stress testing the library by running the test suite one hundred times in four terminals concurrently: 2020-10-28 17:36:43 toor@vf1 ~/src/perl/Dpchrist-Perl-b0_01068002 # time for i in $( seq 1 100 ) ; do make test ; done After ~40 minutes, I see the following on the virtual machine console: Oct 28 15:15:43 vf1 kernel pid 609 (ntpd), jid 0, uid 0, was killed; out of swap space Oct 28 15:15:56 vf1 kernel pid 763 (bash), jid 0, uid 0, was killed; out of swap space Oct 28 15:16:28 vf1 kernel pid 1727 (bash), jid 0, uid 0, was killed; out of swap space All four tests are still running. I see no new console messages after ~90 minutes. I am trying to figure out the console warnings: 2020-10-28 18:49:27 toor@vf1 ~ # top -w -d 1 | head -n 20 last pid: 56207; load averages: 3.80, 3.96, 3.94 up 0+04:22:00 18:49:31 51 processes: 2 running, 49 sleeping CPU: 19.7% user, 0.0% nice, 22.6% system, 1.9% interrupt, 55.8% idle Mem: 47M Active, 5084K Inact, 5200K Laundry, 876M Wired, 21M Free ARC: 765M Total, 164M MFU, 578M MRU, 374K Anon, 3092K Header, 21M Other 38M Compressed, 706M Uncompressed, 18.73:1 Ratio Swap: 1024M Total, 128M Used, 896M Free, 12% Inuse PID USERNAME THR PRI NICE SIZE RES SWAP STATE C TIME WCPU COMMAND 56196 root 1 45 0 34M 21M 0 swread 0 0:00 5.96% perl 56174 root 1 52 0 43M 18M 0 RUN 1 0:01 3.96% perl 56139 root 1 48 0 34M 7296K 0 swread 0 0:01 1.95% perl 56172 root 1 48 0 28M 3872K 0 wait 1 0:00 1.95% perl 54980 root 1 43 0 25M 5512K 0 swread 0 0:04 0.98% perl 56159 root 1 26 0 24M 3192K 0 select 0 0:00 0.98% perl 1730 root 1 20 0 20M 872K 0 select 0 0:08 0.00% sshd 651 root 1 20 0 17M 776K 0 select 0 0:06 0.00% sendmail 54786 root 1 26 0 25M 3472K 0 select 0 0:04 0.00% perl 54841 root 1 28 0 25M 3256K 0 select 0 0:04 0.00% perl 4834 root 1 20 0 20M 1060K 0 select 0 0:04 0.00% sshd 2020-10-28 18:51:23 toor@vf1 ~ # top -m io -w -d 1 | head -n 20 last pid: 56836; load averages: 2.82, 3.51, 3.75 up 0+04:24:54 18:52:25 52 processes: 6 running, 46 sleeping CPU: 19.6% user, 0.0% nice, 22.9% system, 1.9% interrupt, 55.5% idle Mem: 35M Active, 260K Inact, 12M Laundry, 888M Wired, 20M Free ARC: 785M Total, 163M MFU, 598M MRU, 153K Anon, 3166K Header, 21M Other 38M Compressed, 724M Uncompressed, 18.90:1 Ratio Swap: 1024M Total, 169M Used, 855M Free, 16% Inuse PID USERNAME VCSW IVCSW READ WRITE FAULT TOTAL PERCENT COMMAND 56830 root 4701 3573 327 1 4491 4819 0.82% perl 56821 root 12346 6721 343 1 11970 12314 2.10% perl 56828 root 5604 5668 355 1 5256 5612 0.96% perl 1730 root 171818 11251 31 0 158749 158780 27.04% sshd 651 root 86749 2265 297 1 108232 108530 18.48% sendmail 54786 root 62254 11017 288 0 38110 38398 6.54% perl 54841 root 60848 12039 121 0 37260 37381 6.37% perl 54980 root 58770 10243 212 0 35617 35829 6.10% perl 4834 root 40981 2325 115 0 4454 4569 0.78% sshd 4838 root 41210 2389 30 0 5984 6014 1.02% sshd 4748 root 40306 2325 108 0 5319 5427 0.92% sshd 2020-10-28 18:57:52 toor@vf1 ~ # swapctl -l Device: 1024-blocks Used: /dev/mirror/swap 1048572 136220 The pool 'vf1zpool1' is the target of the zfs(8) commands: 2020-10-28 18:57:58 toor@vf1 ~ # zpool list vf1zpool1 NAME SIZE ALLOC FREE CKPOINT EXPANDSZ FRAG CAP DEDUP HEALTH ALTROOT vf1zpool1 960M 99.1M 861M - - 46% 10% 1.00x ONLINE - 2020-10-28 19:00:33 toor@vf1 ~ # zpool iostat -v vf1zpool1 capacity operations bandwidth pool alloc free read write read write --------------- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- vf1zpool1 99.1M 861M 2 44 21.1K 518K gpt/vf1zpool1 99.1M 861M 2 44 21.1K 518K --------------- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- Comments or suggestions? David From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 02:15:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C36439D55 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 02:15:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Received: from mail.monochrome.org (static-71-163-255-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.163.255.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail", Issuer "mail" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CM8Dn1KL4z3yK9 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 02:15:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Received: from tripel.monochrome.org (tripel.monochrome.org [192.168.1.11]) by mail.monochrome.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 09T2FjnK069025; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 22:15:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 22:15:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Hill To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? In-Reply-To: <20201028145646.640903ef7b37875a2b0b7347@sohara.org> Message-ID: References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> <98d2bb99-f2d0-004c-b342-05fbd891e9e0@qeng-ho.org> <40F0146B-191B-4AA8-8CE2-13D7DEC0F1FD@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20201028145646.640903ef7b37875a2b0b7347@sohara.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CM8Dn1KL4z3yK9 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@monochrome.org has no SPF policy when checking 71.163.255.121) smtp.mailfrom=chris@monochrome.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.06 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[chris]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.10)[-0.103]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.93)[-0.930]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[monochrome.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.20)[0.196]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:701, ipnet:71.163.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 02:15:54 -0000 On Wed, 28 Oct 2020, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:26:33 -0500 > Valeri Galtsev wrote: > >> My boss almost 2 decades ago said: you buy new computer, but the >> moment you unpack it it is already obsolete. I'd even modify that statement to "the moment it's available for sale, it is already obsolete." > There are great bargains to be had among the cast-offs of those > who must have the newest. True fact. I've had excellent luck buying refurbished computers that are just off of a corporate lease, so about 3 years old. -- Chris Hill chris@monochrome.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 03:07:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60EA43D9B0 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 03:07:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "www.holgerdanske.com", Issuer "www.holgerdanske.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CM9NK6WBvz43QG for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 03:07:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 (99-100-19-101.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net [99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:TLSv1.3:Kx=any:Au=any:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 20:07:21 -0700 Subject: Re: vf1 kernel pid 609 (ntpd), jid 0, uid 0, was killed; out of swap space To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <73c9f204-8ef5-0171-bb3b-c3c34e165740@holgerdanske.com> From: David Christensen Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 20:07:20 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <73c9f204-8ef5-0171-bb3b-c3c34e165740@holgerdanske.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CM9NK6WBvz43QG X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com has no SPF policy when checking 184.105.128.27) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.73 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.52)[0.520]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.07)[0.066]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.24)[0.240]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[holgerdanske.com]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:184.104.0.0/15, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 03:07:31 -0000 On 2020-10-28 19:05, David Christensen wrote: > 2020-10-28 17:36:43 toor@vf1 ~/src/perl/Dpchrist-Perl-b0_01068002 > # time for i in $( seq 1 100 ) ; do make test ; done After ~140 minutes, the tests are still running, but visibly slower. Logging in via SSH is sluggish. There no new console error messages. Status is as follows: 2020-10-28 19:55:13 toor@vf1 ~ # swapctl -l Device: 1024-blocks Used: /dev/mirror/swap 1048572 139504 2020-10-28 19:55:58 toor@vf1 ~ # top -w -d 1 | head -n 20 last pid: 60001; load averages: 1.10, 1.10, 1.32 up 0+05:28:53 19:56:24 48 processes: 2 running, 46 sleeping CPU: 17.3% user, 0.0% nice, 24.7% system, 2.7% interrupt, 55.4% idle Mem: 22M Active, 1360K Inact, 1136K Laundry, 926M Wired, 4788K Free ARC: 823M Total, 163M MFU, 634M MRU, 153K Anon, 3289K Header, 22M Other 40M Compressed, 760M Uncompressed, 18.97:1 Ratio Swap: 1024M Total, 168M Used, 856M Free, 16% Inuse PID USERNAME THR PRI NICE SIZE RES SWAP STATE C TIME WCPU COMMAND 59998 root 1 22 0 32M 6568K 0 swread 1 0:01 2.98% perl 59999 root 1 25 0 33M 9600K 0 CPU1 1 0:01 2.98% perl 59995 root 1 20 0 42M 6776K 0 swread 1 0:01 0.98% perl 58505 root 1 20 0 25M 1492K 0 select 1 0:11 0.00% perl 1730 root 1 20 0 20M 260K 0 select 1 0:09 0.00% sshd 651 root 1 20 0 17M 276K 0 select 0 0:08 0.00% sendmail 59152 root 1 20 0 25M 1360K 0 select 0 0:07 0.00% perl 4838 root 1 20 0 20M 204K 0 select 0 0:05 0.00% sshd 4834 root 1 20 0 20M 172K 0 select 0 0:05 0.00% sshd 4748 root 1 20 0 20M 148K 0 select 1 0:04 0.00% sshd 5213 root 1 20 0 13M 312K 0 select 0 0:04 0.00% top 2020-10-28 19:56:24 toor@vf1 ~ # top -m io -w -d 1 | head -n 20 last pid: 60004; load averages: 0.93, 1.06, 1.30 up 0+05:28:59 19:56:30 48 processes: 3 running, 45 sleeping CPU: 17.3% user, 0.0% nice, 24.7% system, 2.7% interrupt, 55.4% idle Mem: 19M Active, 1572K Inact, 1692K Laundry, 926M Wired, 6920K Free ARC: 823M Total, 163M MFU, 634M MRU, 128K Anon, 3288K Header, 22M Other 40M Compressed, 760M Uncompressed, 18.97:1 Ratio Swap: 1024M Total, 151M Used, 873M Free, 14% Inuse PID USERNAME VCSW IVCSW READ WRITE FAULT TOTAL PERCENT COMMAND 59999 root 3162 1053 395 2 2952 3349 0.26% perl 59995 root 9057 1779 401 1 8750 9152 0.70% perl 59964 root 9645 1742 375 3 9341 9719 0.75% perl 60002 root 152 245 134 0 158 292 0.02% perl 58505 root 218567 26744 281 0 202628 202909 15.57% perl 1730 root 192785 13715 38 0 178942 178980 13.74% sshd 651 root 124736 6183 1050 1 153814 154865 11.89% sendmail 59152 root 143127 18210 253 0 132596 132849 10.20% perl 4838 root 68504 5564 39 0 32530 32569 2.50% sshd 4834 root 66724 5295 126 0 29236 29362 2.25% sshd 4748 root 60897 4640 113 0 25122 25235 1.94% sshd 2020-10-28 19:56:30 toor@vf1 ~ # zpool list vf1zpool1 NAME SIZE ALLOC FREE CKPOINT EXPANDSZ FRAG CAP DEDUP HEALTH ALTROOT vf1zpool1 960M 103M 857M - - 47% 10% 1.00x ONLINE - 2020-10-28 19:56:52 toor@vf1 ~ # zpool iostat -v vf1zpool1 capacity operations bandwidth pool alloc free read write read write --------------- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- vf1zpool1 103M 857M 2 37 17.4K 430K gpt/vf1zpool1 103M 857M 2 37 17.4K 430K --------------- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- sendmail(8) seems to be using more I/O than everything else. How do I determine what I/O sendmail(8) is doing, and why? The top(1) load averages are now much lower (1.10 vs. 3.80). How do I determine why? David From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 04:57:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC3B43FFE3 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 04:57:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "www.holgerdanske.com", Issuer "www.holgerdanske.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMCqD3Nw5z48Jw for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 04:57:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 (99-100-19-101.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net [99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:TLSv1.3:Kx=any:Au=any:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:57:25 -0700 Subject: Re: vf1 kernel pid 609 (ntpd), jid 0, uid 0, was killed; out of swap space To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <73c9f204-8ef5-0171-bb3b-c3c34e165740@holgerdanske.com> From: David Christensen Message-ID: <07d8b9ef-c88f-0371-c298-cf7d4984306c@holgerdanske.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:57:24 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMCqD3Nw5z48Jw X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com has no SPF policy when checking 184.105.128.27) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.72 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.48)[0.481]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.08)[0.080]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.26)[0.263]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[holgerdanske.com]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:184.104.0.0/15, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 04:57:29 -0000 On 2020-10-28 20:07, David Christensen wrote: > After ~140 minutes, the tests are still running, but visibly slower. Because ZFS filesystems and snapshots were accumulating -- by the thousands (!). I have reworked my test scripts to clean up after themselves, by destroying the test filesystems and snapshots, and have re-started the stress tests. I will post if there are remaining problems. David From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 07:40:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B18E44415F for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:40:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c50005801db2.5f5eaad786fa8a17515670f622ea6d2c@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMHQq00fPz4JZc for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:40:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c50005801db2.5f5eaad786fa8a17515670f622ea6d2c@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1603957197; x=1606549197; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=rMLVdMJqdekyFSlziPmpTGAy8lDNJvpG1fkY9c/2tqI=; b=dqrTJw1gRUL8SUwgVdfQoxS8g/JP6OR3wBsAvrXBXlLYfX+HKoRbDAG6P7urshwPRXhKnSKnP/lfiXGpAmyH+9ZwlJNtBbXWbW0OPxJIDRyfShlvFhneJp6sRPsGAnZIHj5wP8akqkO122terQ6NcSWJalWcVDZ+/bKFR0uSF8o= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjNTAwMDU4MDFkYjIuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.189.1]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 03:39:53 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 03:40:30 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kY2XL-0004Cd-U8; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:39:55 +0000 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:39:55 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Chris Hill Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-Id: <20201029073955.86d584402f135606a018826b@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20201024123148.4929fb9e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201028073644.52fed6c6@archlinux> <20201028141745.0ad98a8d.freebsd@edvax.de> <98d2bb99-f2d0-004c-b342-05fbd891e9e0@qeng-ho.org> <40F0146B-191B-4AA8-8CE2-13D7DEC0F1FD@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20201028145646.640903ef7b37875a2b0b7347@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMHQq00fPz4JZc X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=dqrTJw1g; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c50005801db2.5f5eaad786fa8a17515670f622ea6d2c@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c50005801db2.5f5eaad786fa8a17515670f622ea6d2c@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.69 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.016]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.966]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.011]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c50005801db2.5f5eaad786fa8a17515670f622ea6d2c@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c50005801db2.5f5eaad786fa8a17515670f622ea6d2c@email-od.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:40:04 -0000 On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 22:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Chris Hill wrote: > True fact. I've had excellent luck buying refurbished computers that are > just off of a corporate lease, so about 3 years old. That's where most of mine come from, also the SAS drives in my NAS. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 15:18:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8772C454B1B for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:18:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from one.dhzm.nl (one.dhzm.nl [161.97.88.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "dhzm.nl", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMTbC5d2jz3dS8 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:17:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from [10.10.10.25] (epsilon.welberg24.nl [185.238.129.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by one.dhzm.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A38F7DEE for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:17:51 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:17:49 +0100 Subject: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE From: Jack Raats To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE Mime-version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMTbC5d2jz3dS8 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mlist@nlned.nl designates 161.97.88.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mlist@nlned.nl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.03 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.94)[-0.944]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.13)[0.133]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nlned.nl]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.918]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:51167, ipnet:161.97.88.0/23, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:18:00 -0000 Hi, =20 I=E2=80=99ve the following problem after updating to FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE. =20 Old situation: FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p10 Postfix, dovecot, opendkim, opendmarc, clamav-milter and clamd. Mail was perfectly working =20 New situation: FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops working so postfix stops= working (even dovecot) Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily runs. =20 Can anyone give me a clue what to change or where to look for to solve this= mystery. =20 Thanks Jack Raats =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 15:37:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D124A455737 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:37:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xtouqh@icloud.com) Received: from mr85p00im-zteg06021501.me.com (mr85p00im-zteg06021501.me.com [17.58.23.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMV1L0wQZz3g7K for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:37:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xtouqh@icloud.com) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [91.240.124.157]) by mr85p00im-zteg06021501.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4044F38040E for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:37:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: From: xtouqh@icloud.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:36:59 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-29_08:2020-10-29, 2020-10-29 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=583 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2006250000 definitions=main-2010290111 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMV1L0wQZz3g7K X-Spamd-Bar: ------- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.56 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[icloud.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:17.58.0.0/16]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[icloud.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[icloud.com,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.55)[-0.549]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[icloud.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:714, ipnet:17.58.16.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[icloud.com:s=1a1hai]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.011]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[icloud.com:dkim]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[17.58.23.183:from]; WHITELIST_SPF_DKIM(-3.00)[icloud.com:d:+,icloud.com:s:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:37:10 -0000 Jack Raats wrote: > Hi, > > > > I’ve the following problem after updating to FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE. > > > > Old situation: > > FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p10 > > Postfix, dovecot, opendkim, opendmarc, clamav-milter and clamd. > > Mail was perfectly working > > > > New situation: > > FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. > > Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops working so postfix stops working (even dovecot) Define "stops working", does it crash, exit, or simply stop responding? Anything in system or clamav logs? > Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily runs. > > > > Can anyone give me a clue what to change or where to look for to solve this mystery. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 15:46:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7BE6455BE5 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:46:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from relay4.cretaforce.gr (relay4.cretaforce.gr [195.201.253.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMVDb4fp8z3gwx for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:46:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from server1.cretaforce.gr (server1.cretaforce.gr [138.201.248.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by smtp2.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02D3B2020A for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:46:53 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cretaforce.gr; s=cretaforce; t=1603986413; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=tiSYgn/w+JyvWfpelGJx1D3QSSyfg8zOMKFHTIAIRvs=; b=g5C4bBRBXYhQerw155/NmLtV9Rc9xaYn/4QNUj/O9Dh7N88dbtEwzTWmHNOv7l45nXyjFa s/b4OfBMfAQVG6JwMjXV2qTqtfTkvno6ej+werWdDiIhezKEfKhf4IHwfJjC956cs07a/u STL5uW4TmRD47onJfhfaiYJpp6Y7Rko= Received: from macbook-air.fritz.box (athedsl-127334.home.otenet.gr [85.75.73.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: chris@cretaforce.gr) by server1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B1FB42730B; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:46:52 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE From: Christos Chatzaras In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:46:51 +0200 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <01FBBA31-17DC-49FD-8C0C-8DBF594339E9@cretaforce.gr> References: To: Jack Raats X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMVDb4fp8z3gwx X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cretaforce.gr header.s=cretaforce header.b=g5C4bBRB; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@cretaforce.gr designates 195.201.253.147 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=chris@cretaforce.gr X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.01 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:195.201.253.147]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cretaforce.gr:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.932]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:195.201.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[195.201.253.147:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.982]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cretaforce.gr:s=cretaforce]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[chris]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cretaforce.gr]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[cretaforce.gr:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:46:56 -0000 > On 29 Oct 2020, at 17:17, Jack Raats wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 >=20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve the following problem after updating to FreeBSD = 12.2-RELEASE. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Old situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p10 >=20 > Postfix, dovecot, opendkim, opendmarc, clamav-milter and clamd. >=20 > Mail was perfectly working >=20 >=20 >=20 > New situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. >=20 > Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops working so postfix = stops working (even dovecot) >=20 > Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily runs. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Can anyone give me a clue what to change or where to look for to solve = this mystery. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Jack Raats >=20 Did you check clamav logs? Maybe it hangs during virus signature update?= From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 16:07:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53470456568 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:07:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from one.dhzm.nl (one.dhzm.nl [161.97.88.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client CN "dhzm.nl", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMVhM4MQGz3yvD for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:07:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from [10.10.10.25] (epsilon.welberg24.nl [185.238.129.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by one.dhzm.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B1BF2F29; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:07:29 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:07:28 +0100 Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE From: Jack Raats To: , Message-ID: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> Thread-Topic: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE References: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMVhM4MQGz3yvD X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mlist@nlned.nl designates 161.97.88.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mlist@nlned.nl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.75 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.96)[-0.955]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nlned.nl]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.50)[-0.501]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[icloud.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:51167, ipnet:161.97.88.0/23, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:07:32 -0000 I first started periodic daily Then I started top to see what happened Lsof took a lot of memory after which it crashed and clamd stopped working. /var/log/messages contained a lot of messages Oct 29 17:03:08 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:08 one syslogd: last message repeated 2 times Oct 29 17:03:08 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(27): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one syslogd: last message repeated 5 times Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(13): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:13 one syslogd: last message repeated 5 times Oct 29 17:03:13 one kernel: pid 59260 (lsof), jid 0, uid 0, was killed: out= of swap space Oct 29 17:03:13 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:15 one kernel: pid 15412 (clamd), jid 0, uid 106, was killed: = out of swap space I hope this can help. Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 16:36 heeft xtouqh--- via freebsd-questions geschreven: Jack Raats wrote: > Hi, >=20 > =20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve the following problem after updating to FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Old situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p10 >=20 > Postfix, dovecot, opendkim, opendmarc, clamav-milter and clamd. >=20 > Mail was perfectly working >=20 > =20 >=20 > New situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. >=20 > Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops working so postfix= stops working (even dovecot) Define "stops working", does it crash, exit, or simply stop responding?= =20 Anything in system or clamav logs? > Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily runs. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Can anyone give me a clue what to change or where to look for to solv= e this mystery. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd= .org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 16:14:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00462456E98 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:14:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from one.dhzm.nl (one.dhzm.nl [IPv6:2a02:c207:2042:131::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "dhzm.nl", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMVr13xWgz40fb for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:14:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from [10.10.10.25] (epsilon.welberg24.nl [185.238.129.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by one.dhzm.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C6FD8E2C; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:14:00 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:13:59 +0100 Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE From: Jack Raats To: , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE References: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> In-Reply-To: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMVr13xWgz40fb X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mlist@nlned.nl designates 2a02:c207:2042:131::1 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mlist@nlned.nl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.75 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.952]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nlned.nl]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.50)[-0.505]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[icloud.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:51167, ipnet:2a02:c207::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:14:11 -0000 Starting lsof gives the following error root@one:/var/log # lsof lsof: WARNING: compiled for FreeBSD release 12.1-RELEASE-p10; this is 12.2-= RELEASE. COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/= OFF NODE NAME Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 17:07 heeft Jack Raats geschreven: I first started periodic daily Then I started top to see what happened Lsof took a lot of memory after which it crashed and clamd stopped work= ing. /var/log/messages contained a lot of messages Oct 29 17:03:08 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:08 one syslogd: last message repeated 2 times Oct 29 17:03:08 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(27): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one syslogd: last message repeated 5 times Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(13): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:13 one syslogd: last message repeated 5 times Oct 29 17:03:13 one kernel: pid 59260 (lsof), jid 0, uid 0, was killed:= out of swap space Oct 29 17:03:13 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:15 one kernel: pid 15412 (clamd), jid 0, uid 106, was kill= ed: out of swap space I hope this can help. Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 16:36 heeft xtouqh--- via freebsd-questions geschreven: Jack Raats wrote: > Hi, >=20 > =20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve the following problem after updating to FreeBSD 12.2-RELEA= SE. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Old situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p10 >=20 > Postfix, dovecot, opendkim, opendmarc, clamav-milter and clamd. >=20 > Mail was perfectly working >=20 > =20 >=20 > New situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. >=20 > Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops working so pos= tfix stops working (even dovecot) Define "stops working", does it crash, exit, or simply stop respond= ing?=20 Anything in system or clamav logs? > Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily runs. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Can anyone give me a clue what to change or where to look for to = solve this mystery. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@fre= ebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 16:17:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B95456FEB for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:17:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from one.dhzm.nl (one.dhzm.nl [161.97.88.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "dhzm.nl", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMVvs5cZ5z40mF for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:17:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from [10.10.10.25] (epsilon.welberg24.nl [185.238.129.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by one.dhzm.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0DDECE2F; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:17:27 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:17:26 +0100 Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE From: Jack Raats To: , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE References: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMVvs5cZ5z40mF X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mlist@nlned.nl designates 161.97.88.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mlist@nlned.nl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nlned.nl]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.951]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.51)[-0.509]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.994]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[icloud.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:51167, ipnet:161.97.88.0/23, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:17:30 -0000 Starting lsof without parameters is EATING memory until it has no swap page= and crashes =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 17:13 heeft Jack Raats geschreven: Starting lsof gives the following error root@one:/var/log # lsof lsof: WARNING: compiled for FreeBSD release 12.1-RELEASE-p10; this is 1= 2.2-RELEASE. COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE S= IZE/OFF NODE NAME Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 17:07 heeft Jack Raats geschreven: I first started periodic daily Then I started top to see what happened Lsof took a lot of memory after which it crashed and clamd stopped = working. /var/log/messages contained a lot of messages Oct 29 17:03:08 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:08 one syslogd: last message repeated 2 times Oct 29 17:03:08 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(27): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one syslogd: last message repeated 5 times Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(13): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:13 one syslogd: last message repeated 5 times Oct 29 17:03:13 one kernel: pid 59260 (lsof), jid 0, uid 0, was kil= led: out of swap space Oct 29 17:03:13 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:15 one kernel: pid 15412 (clamd), jid 0, uid 106, was = killed: out of swap space I hope this can help. Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 16:36 heeft xtouqh--- via freebsd-questions geschre= ven: Jack Raats wrote: > Hi, >=20 > =20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve the following problem after updating to FreeBSD 12.2-R= ELEASE. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Old situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p10 >=20 > Postfix, dovecot, opendkim, opendmarc, clamav-milter and clam= d. >=20 > Mail was perfectly working >=20 > =20 >=20 > New situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. >=20 > Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops working so= postfix stops working (even dovecot) Define "stops working", does it crash, exit, or simply stop res= ponding?=20 Anything in system or clamav logs? > Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily runs. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Can anyone give me a clue what to change or where to look for= to solve this mystery. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe= @freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 16:18:55 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60398456CF6 for ; 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bh=YLz1/usxJ4SvzT90HtgDvdpP8cdLeWQ3OEj4wE39++s=; b=GIPMtcGs3fL6CjcrECTHrE9+5cxl1wrATlzppmEF7MOYslQu+KVyteD4wdYDxnIhikToYA x7QYclkkzlpNFnrYVmhJ6LcQZ/Huj5L+b0lPkBVYBRWA74jGDNdIymFqQHg8dCm0t+kQtf nYt21wK8tIL9ShNLmHWmi0x6Y7zJSgA= Received: from macbook-air.fritz.box (athedsl-127334.home.otenet.gr [85.75.73.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: chris@cretaforce.gr) by server1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CAE927335 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:18:52 +0200 (EET) From: Christos Chatzaras Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:18:51 +0200 References: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <196852CA-B9AF-468C-9A49-6E44BE967639@cretaforce.gr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMVxV2YBMz4166 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[cretaforce.gr:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:18:55 -0000 > On 29 Oct 2020, at 18:13, Jack Raats wrote: >=20 > Starting lsof gives the following error >=20 > root@one:/var/log # lsof > lsof: WARNING: compiled for FreeBSD release 12.1-RELEASE-p10; this is = 12.2-RELEASE. > COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE = SIZE/OFF NODE NAME >=20 Rebuild the lsof port.= From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 16:19:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7464572C9 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:19:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from one.dhzm.nl (one.dhzm.nl [IPv6:2a02:c207:2042:131::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client CN "dhzm.nl", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMVyd1Nlpz4154 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:19:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from [10.10.10.25] (epsilon.welberg24.nl [185.238.129.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by one.dhzm.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D596ED1; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:19:51 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:19:51 +0100 Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE From: Jack Raats To: , Message-ID: <94E92A53-CDFF-44F4-8A37-A75EDA00731F@nlned.nl> Thread-Topic: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE References: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMVyd1Nlpz4154 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mlist@nlned.nl designates 2a02:c207:2042:131::1 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mlist@nlned.nl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.58 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.951]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nlned.nl]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.335]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.994]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[icloud.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:51167, ipnet:2a02:c207::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:19:53 -0000 Question remains: Why does this occur in FreeBSD 12.2 and not in the 12.1 release? Gr., Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 17:17 heeft Jack Raats geschreven: Starting lsof without parameters is EATING memory until it has no swap = page and crashes =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 17:13 heeft Jack Raats geschreven: Starting lsof gives the following error root@one:/var/log # lsof lsof: WARNING: compiled for FreeBSD release 12.1-RELEASE-p10; this = is 12.2-RELEASE. COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE = SIZE/OFF NODE NAME Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 17:07 heeft Jack Raats geschreven= : I first started periodic daily Then I started top to see what happened Lsof took a lot of memory after which it crashed and clamd stop= ped working. /var/log/messages contained a lot of messages Oct 29 17:03:08 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:08 one syslogd: last message repeated 2 times Oct 29 17:03:08 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(27): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one syslogd: last message repeated 5 times Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(13): failed Oct 29 17:03:09 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:13 one syslogd: last message repeated 5 times Oct 29 17:03:13 one kernel: pid 59260 (lsof), jid 0, uid 0, was= killed: out of swap space Oct 29 17:03:13 one kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed Oct 29 17:03:15 one kernel: pid 15412 (clamd), jid 0, uid 106, = was killed: out of swap space I hope this can help. Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 16:36 heeft xtouqh--- via freebsd-questions ges= chreven: Jack Raats wrote: > Hi, >=20 > =20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve the following problem after updating to FreeBSD 12= .2-RELEASE. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Old situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p10 >=20 > Postfix, dovecot, opendkim, opendmarc, clamav-milter and = clamd. >=20 > Mail was perfectly working >=20 > =20 >=20 > New situation: >=20 > FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. >=20 > Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops workin= g so postfix stops working (even dovecot) Define "stops working", does it crash, exit, or simply stop= responding?=20 Anything in system or clamav logs? > Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily ru= ns. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Can anyone give me a clue what to change or where to look= for to solve this mystery. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-question= s To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubsc= ribe@freebsd.org" _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd= .org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 16:23:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033FE45778E for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:23:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from one.dhzm.nl (one.dhzm.nl [161.97.88.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client CN "dhzm.nl", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMW2L0t9gz41FB for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:23:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist@nlned.nl) Received: from [10.10.10.25] (epsilon.welberg24.nl [185.238.129.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by one.dhzm.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 569D3F32; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:23:04 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.42.20101102 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:23:02 +0100 Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE From: Jack Raats To: Christos Chatzaras , Message-ID: <35C9D608-8C4C-4488-96CE-7D8B3EB08618@nlned.nl> Thread-Topic: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE References: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> <196852CA-B9AF-468C-9A49-6E44BE967639@cretaforce.gr> In-Reply-To: <196852CA-B9AF-468C-9A49-6E44BE967639@cretaforce.gr> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMW2L0t9gz41FB X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mlist@nlned.nl designates 161.97.88.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mlist@nlned.nl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.74 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nlned.nl]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.991]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.44)[-0.440]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.010]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:51167, ipnet:161.97.88.0/23, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:23:07 -0000 I know but this machine uses packages.... I'm going to compile lsof on my home server to see what happens Thanks!!! Jack =EF=BB=BFOp 29-10-2020 17:18 heeft Christos Chatzaras geschreven: > On 29 Oct 2020, at 18:13, Jack Raats wrote: >=20 > Starting lsof gives the following error >=20 > root@one:/var/log # lsof > lsof: WARNING: compiled for FreeBSD release 12.1-RELEASE-p10; this is= 12.2-RELEASE. > COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE = SIZE/OFF NODE NAME >=20 Rebuild the lsof port. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd= .org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 17:09:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817D3458618 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:09:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from relay3.cretaforce.gr (relay3.cretaforce.gr [195.201.253.216]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMX3S2X0vz43rp for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:09:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from server1.cretaforce.gr (server1.cretaforce.gr [138.201.248.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by smtp1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23DF02028A for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 19:09:06 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cretaforce.gr; s=cretaforce; t=1603991346; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=m/qdZqMTT+o2CLwcjLxyC7v4pPZjNWkVHs3fPBROvmQ=; b=QNNveSar8e7WfHtpN0QxEZXnj7fWjfgdhi5QTQto1kawwobeO4L27jqpoC9UQ+XPDKWigo j//x395f8SIRviodmk/+wGsQ3Ar3A4xAbsNbzUoOFHnCd7XRT76PIPfuGcsTny6z9JWBUs uMZLojN9gMqY1J7NMfCTUGXVXKSzX3o= Received: from macbook-air.fritz.box (athedsl-127334.home.otenet.gr [85.75.73.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: chris@cretaforce.gr) by server1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC0662730B for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 19:09:05 +0200 (EET) From: Christos Chatzaras Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 19:09:04 +0200 References: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> <196852CA-B9AF-468C-9A49-6E44BE967639@cretaforce.gr> <35C9D608-8C4C-4488-96CE-7D8B3EB08618@nlned.nl> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <35C9D608-8C4C-4488-96CE-7D8B3EB08618@nlned.nl> Message-Id: <2005C73D-4600-4749-A5BE-4E2DFFCD6F9C@cretaforce.gr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMX3S2X0vz43rp X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cretaforce.gr header.s=cretaforce header.b=QNNveSar; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@cretaforce.gr designates 195.201.253.216 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=chris@cretaforce.gr X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.89 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:195.201.253.216]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cretaforce.gr:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.78)[-0.779]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:195.201.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[195.201.253.216:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.007]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cretaforce.gr:s=cretaforce]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[chris]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.004]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cretaforce.gr]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[cretaforce.gr:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:09:09 -0000 > On 29 Oct 2020, at 18:23, Jack Raats wrote: >=20 > I know but this machine uses packages.... > I'm going to compile lsof on my home server to see what happens > Thanks!!! >=20 > Jack >=20 I don't use packages but I read at the freebsd forum that until 12.1 is = EOL the packages are build for 12.1. 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[65.25.51.0]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 61sm1482152qta.19.2020.10.29.10.59.03 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 10:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5F9B02E6.1010708@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:59:02 -0400 From: Ernie Luzar User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jack Raats CC: Christos Chatzaras , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE References: <482BCE79-F10C-4D82-9213-283B0111EC71@nlned.nl> <196852CA-B9AF-468C-9A49-6E44BE967639@cretaforce.gr> <35C9D608-8C4C-4488-96CE-7D8B3EB08618@nlned.nl> In-Reply-To: <35C9D608-8C4C-4488-96CE-7D8B3EB08618@nlned.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMY962scmz45vq X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=hjo8uhyS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of luzar722@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::732 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=luzar722@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.53 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.52)[-0.520]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[65.25.51.0:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.020]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::732:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:59:07 -0000 Jack Raats wrote: > I know but this machine uses packages.... > I'm going to compile lsof on my home server to see what happens > Thanks!!! > > Jack > > Op 29-10-2020 17:18 heeft Christos Chatzaras geschreven: > > > > > On 29 Oct 2020, at 18:13, Jack Raats wrote: > > > > Starting lsof gives the following error > > > > root@one:/var/log # lsof > > lsof: WARNING: compiled for FreeBSD release 12.1-RELEASE-p10; this is 12.2-RELEASE. > > COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME > > > > Rebuild the lsof port. I installed 12.2 from scratch using the .img file. I then install everything I use as packages. Everything is working just file. Something is wrong in your upgrade method. Recheck or reinstall. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 18:28:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5377C45A1DD for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:28:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idefix@fechner.net) Received: from anny.lostinspace.de (anny.lostinspace.de [195.30.95.33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMYpT3GxLz47BZ for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:28:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idefix@fechner.net) Received: from server.idefix.lan (150-136-067-156.ip-addr.inexio.net [156.67.136.150]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: idefix@fechner.net) by anny.lostinspace.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 19D9920493; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 19:27:39 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fechner.net; s=default; t=1603996059; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=57KDcjUCTA64FuJHgAQivW3fwN4JjbgY3BlRbu1jI+w=; b=iAQR00R2pgq5FW84V4E6rsF3isQw5YZADG9Q4Xbs9h/PyWmYITRRM0YaKJgIrUN6B0JLvi hH3gbSuhKie90C98UFLFXhVnw7C8eFq3+vg8VjyGDMq/Na2Jxxg4Yyj12dEQCicUcoYGvW VEvhEPG+iPEuaEYzzAG3p0QZeKw9mic= Received: from [192.168.0.151] (150-136-067-156.ip-addr.inexio.net [156.67.136.150]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by server.idefix.lan (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 70181A6112; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 19:10:55 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE To: Jack Raats , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: From: Matthias Fechner Message-ID: <5dc46e8f-d4d6-f53a-5ae4-0cdc3243dbfc@fechner.net> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 19:10:54 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Server: anny.lostinspace.de X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMYpT3GxLz47BZ X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fechner.net header.s=default header.b=iAQR00R2; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fechner.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of idefix@fechner.net designates 195.30.95.33 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=idefix@fechner.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.33 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[fechner.net:s=default]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.026]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[fechner.net:dkim]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[195.30.95.33:from]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fechner.net,none]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fechner.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.015]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.587]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5539, ipnet:195.30.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[156.67.136.150:received] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 18:28:02 -0000 Am 29.10.2020 um 16:17 schrieb Jack Raats: > New situation: > > FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. > > Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops working so postfix stops working (even dovecot) > > Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily runs. I had to reinstall all packages: pkg upgrade -f -y Gruß Matthias -- "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning." -- Rich Cook From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 23:15:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B232440E86 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 23:15:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x334.google.com (mail-ot1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMhB33FlMz4T6c for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 23:15:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x334.google.com with SMTP id b2so3945421ots.5 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:15:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mUGepQt3qxx3ICjlwFFH1ERZWfobXDvzT754IHTUueM=; b=XyGCO5xmXHZWv+EcSg/PSlVlXy2SIU1Ap2t7D69VUUm22OCBAgkAUHk230TKmANJCQ sI3s0mr8tgO4txqlOgQbGu+ngvFNw3HzGbnzLqh9YlVjH3S7QWSwwknHy56DYIhel3t8 6mkvqW6WAsDbEFVojnh712reMcaHpwc+pHb1z5HD/ifasRsZKUKdNUXm71JwsZCT2keu vWm8bITxlPo1uNPrHTvFGPS4jnpDr8XdYQIJadh/Tv5Ebp7FJ+l0Nr6I0gb3hmlrGrJA h8MxFbj/ULplcafvBjDlceaKKvnA2lf70INak0MITgeA9EOI84v9vioQhyja3azLb5X+ yN/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mUGepQt3qxx3ICjlwFFH1ERZWfobXDvzT754IHTUueM=; b=WUkUoR3+gzI7Z7P7Kryu8zZ/RWRGNcWJenpdqIshgQ7EtGMiZ13ZrETKyU0DxBg8N2 mBbYha0BZaSY+GgS8OBKE2xzpKZVtNkXgQdsdK5AiU7wraJ2KYDS01yg/XPSmDeSp8PK dVlUulvifl5nKhsGkL1jMJiQI5bS3l56FEqu398g8HhMqVgNFxzCVAJomDfjPUlRdzo4 D9Poc8PvTrgwCjYAD4O2rJc25v49EEUAei2bLUS8/ta3MLKs6o6xnvED01pPFN1VKPou Wt23Lj3MAeUosh7qYLuyhVvp8aPIy4IzzbHxW6otXtUl5tYXonyxakNWY6ajb77V4v8b MsVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533eQ9cwnC9tPzpPniSvGRiuhYElQG3eGSMGEd/s2XqKxvmOqO3u q3BymobAwq6u54yQ8LZWwZiFled0c/QsX1QwaFu6epBFhVtdGQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJytYM2bynf8cHDS80qJAvkpOLVYjbo2zZbC07vMZLT0FIkxbybJdEL4XNstq2bFktc303TRv+bXq5GVOxtCdP4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:158f:: with SMTP id i15mr5028699otr.93.1604013321367; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:15:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5dc46e8f-d4d6-f53a-5ae4-0cdc3243dbfc@fechner.net> In-Reply-To: <5dc46e8f-d4d6-f53a-5ae4-0cdc3243dbfc@fechner.net> From: Kevin Oberman Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 16:15:04 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE To: Matthias Fechner Cc: Jack Raats , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMhB33FlMz4T6c X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=XyGCO5xm; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kob6558@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::334 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kob6558@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.57 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.85)[-0.850]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.026]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::334:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 23:15:24 -0000 Should be no reason to install MOST ports on a minor upgrade like 12.1 to 12.2. I certainly have not found any need. For major version upgrades, it is recommended that all ports be reinstalled though only a minority actually need it. It's just hard to be sure which ones. The big exception is ports that provide kernel modules. Most of these will work after a minor upgrade, but a few are rather touchy. The most touchy, in my experience, are the drm-kmod ports and, a bit less so, virtualbox-ose-kmod. I keep full sources on my systems, so I just add them to PORTS_MODULES in /etc/src.conf so that they are built with my kernel. PORTS_MODULES=3D emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod PORTS_MODULES+=3D sysutils/lsof PORTS_MODULES+=3D graphics/drm-fbsd12.0-kmod I realize that this can be a problem for some, but one system of a given architecture can build a package that can be added to all others. A special case is lsof. lsof actually looks through certain kernel sources to build some things and it is important that you either have a package built against the sources for the current kernel or that you build the port against the correct contents of /usr/src/sys/. You don't need full sources... just the kernel. I don't believe that any other port has such a requirement except kernel modules. -- Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683 On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 11:28 AM Matthias Fechner wrote: > Am 29.10.2020 um 16:17 schrieb Jack Raats: > > New situation: > > > > FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE, the rest was the same. > > > > Every night after 03:00 am the clamav daemon stops working so postfix > stops working (even dovecot) > > > > Strange, but I know that after 03:00 am periodic daily runs. > > I had to reinstall all packages: > pkg upgrade -f -y > > Gru=C3=9F > Matthias > > -- > > "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to > build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to > produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning." -- > Rich Cook > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Oct 30 09:47:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C287344D5AE for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 09:47:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idefix@fechner.net) Received: from anny.lostinspace.de (anny.lostinspace.de [IPv6:2001:608:a02::33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMyCV32nTz3Vgb for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 09:47:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idefix@fechner.net) Received: from server.idefix.lan (253-129-067-156.ip-addr.inexio.net [156.67.129.253]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: idefix@fechner.net) by anny.lostinspace.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1206F64F05; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:47:31 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fechner.net; s=default; t=1604051251; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=05dRCIlK1UeRTX0452ipKZaTu7mZ8UmHs1iMuThGZxs=; b=cRV1B5jpTgtYeLNbewGBShebZAIVjqXuhr97xz1+NZ4y5tB0w06c0ZnpzKga6XptL2224S z94VmqpZHcNAO+qOxxBh8oW7tG+YykCRPC+qTsNQiSf+tF+HMYyPq7aXVN5Xep6Xt75din udK4rU7gff5VsthdgKc8y9yKUYuQofU= Received: from [192.168.0.151] (253-129-067-156.ip-addr.inexio.net [156.67.129.253]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by server.idefix.lan (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B83631D4EC; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:47:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE To: Kevin Oberman Cc: Jack Raats , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" References: <5dc46e8f-d4d6-f53a-5ae4-0cdc3243dbfc@fechner.net> From: Matthias Fechner Message-ID: <8732ada3-264c-4c55-8cba-2d5a697bf226@fechner.net> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:47:29 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Server: anny.lostinspace.de X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMyCV32nTz3Vgb X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fechner.net header.s=default header.b=cRV1B5jp; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fechner.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of idefix@fechner.net designates 2001:608:a02::33 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=idefix@fechner.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.89 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fechner.net:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[2001:608:a02::33:from]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fechner.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.14)[-0.139]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5539, ipnet:2001:608::/32, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[156.67.129.253:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.031]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[fechner.net:s=default]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[fechner.net:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.016]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 09:47:35 -0000 Hi Kevi, Am 30.10.2020 um 00:15 schrieb Kevin Oberman: > Should be no reason to install MOST ports on a minor upgrade like 12.1 > to 12.2. I certainly have not found any need. For major version > upgrades, it is recommended that all ports be reinstalled though only > a minority actually need it. It's just hard to be sure which ones. > > The big exception is ports that provide kernel modules. Most of these > will work after a minor upgrade, but a few are rather touchy. The most > touchy, in my experience, are the drm-kmod ports and, a bit less so, > virtualbox-ose-kmod. I keep full sources on my systems, so I just add > them to PORTS_MODULES in /etc/src.conf so that they are built with my > kernel. > PORTS_MODULES= emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod > PORTS_MODULES+= sysutils/lsof > PORTS_MODULES+= graphics/drm-fbsd12.0-kmod > I realize that this can be a problem for some, but one system of a > given architecture can build a package that can be added to all others. > > A special case is lsof. lsof actually looks through certain kernel > sources to build some things and it is important that you either have > a package built against the sources for the current kernel or that you > build the port against the correct contents of /usr/src/sys/. You > don't need full sources... just the kernel. I don't believe that any > other port has such a requirement except kernel modules. you are fully right and this should be the case. But for me it was not. TLS connection were not working (postfix, dovecot), rspamd crashed (refused to start with bus error). After reinstalling all packages all problems were fixed. Maybe this is related to the fact that the compiler was replaced and the 12.1 binaries do not really work together with the new 12.2 environment. Gruß Matthias -- "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning." -- Rich Cook From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Oct 30 16:58:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4D1456775 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 16:58:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emorrasg@yahoo.es) Received: from sonic307-54.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic307-54.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CN7mR5V5rz4F6L for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 16:58:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emorrasg@yahoo.es) X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1604077092; bh=b+enmBEAkobz1ulM+zGrtEwqMVioIMqrAWEFbLHd0di=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=Z77rkQCPV5uQeKCuBdq6SshjciRlRdyNm5Z2/Yaj4pSOn/73eTqmY0RXd/0fOlzJxnW4Mmuk7eNKivamkmF9FJTGS3/6cxiTwP3Bl+9hE2ivh3meLVchgYjg0SqkgTBiDpPvBsT+/ACU7vdO9kJ1Hhh6HuXn2KzN72fqwDSG2Z2c9r+nuzd/QuKueKubxd5vH1kjs6vuKKJ7m1b9Jb5bMqFKTgnaQ4BtuwZJj64VOVC2oq8I184QhK140UK5hRBMbs3VvsmjEyxRxpzl8f9v1gL7RF3f1Q3XcCRM9xXuMy8yVkDn/RVbNNybjLs6jG3NcnoBUgY4hCUbTmS2zdtXXw== X-YMail-OSG: ZGOMLMIVM1mcyqMbeQiWbU3hEMr04jYskk8ihaDHrf5XEPZ0PgM5PTkvTtSI5IA Vf1fuf.hcPToXjq5D27UP_egbyoDf4vtdeNc29ONV66euOAEkU5VFdAS09D.PJj53YnB8daRMf47 Kdp9xTTfZMk6GTOX5RCKIJa0aGVMps8kMsYYvMDkge1DEzllBhiQysDpe2CnPK4FMZyQjvkl9hM7 Q4UOnbkkTcBfvOqBB0I1viGue_bFApRBxJZPV7ZyOvYFxXBwPU7uz85gVBTJhBycvPChSToF5kuP XsubXXXw1q7FaZgNIQ9aYJN9s06Pten2zDTsDkp7ol_iepLXtC4sY_LLK4YXGT8AJy_UOeZgTs4H fnLCYlnrEp5Fe1Gtp.l58nAjUbR.8QYlKubpZK1vEE4oQOPlvqX087wdSpd8.1f2icuVU5LILg8M 3TlNDEIz3uGt5tpIAUlbeJbmv9sVgWu_vZCa7sNFjak_PW_zwvIALZGiT_ZrC725TKlB4lDdDjiu 1nbXCm7ARkujw24WQAjo6nOjMWSGt2PGJS.BytN7oErcjDNIZ0GyENcR7H2yXskOfXonqKcdg3A6 6WlLsQe534T8usbsiUllDsQqhrGQV9uHxdOpjSogq_ltbOOG27VQmqfVI9C5QrUwKbhUCQSc0w6S DbtTCCjVfIsDZrBFn6a9X0Ulj_Od3dtcaXM2Umh6wjPRdjAXyk1WUSyJSvaCPTAJUS2TQxSxHK9g f2PrqexIK7HVFYdkMGdwP0Eu.aO3hv1KDQo4ntez9oE2NOfjmCL1F9nBlnDcJJF_Ys5uFqvV3Nih _yGmSUO5HFOYyWxoWm05rZuwNp1WBoV51QrcvQMmtP2sRbRicuMQZDG5SFpD8x3PtCL3tcL75Rji 0GxDJSdRBYx0_.BxvIBaSC447XRuMYP1vuzRwHIasGTzNk59_J2_NOXQLJHkx_2ojMchFbt4GoDm H4hect8KXI8RTL17z0UaGhNVWwLw2AQYf_3Ws3kXd.XYiL6YjlhrkJy10fhI2y.JYRW93IGQp.m8 FGpA8ZcaUYee1tuyU7TL9_DCQkLjsYQFBX.3vVHzqMUFBk6D60ihNnZXfFU1HcnfT7.Zn_QxalU2 PIKl7rQKr0JVNPwI00UrcO9x4e59VRIuqydt9qbA93DMg.kdCCYyzlm4LIyOenlwfYO0y.vsO5mn Xtk_hQyxkISlw3jOZMsi971c5iNd2nKKI0h2sXWRML6vOi87j9RWbd0r2OL.yceInSlV7OdSWIkC 0vZY4I09GQjbI3RfXlrbTLJaXJmLWjxKdm7KcMn13N1yqXocoUwSdCPP6BgFqr97GIYXm.9_LIcF mY99gjMXd4DqyagNuO5fI5__WbC51g981uw9gK.w16d26X_1lpsg0i0NPEmGDKIGw6X6V.ioGHnI _Ur57WZCuOPs1sb6oKNYBOndGz2JupYn2pG5_1ELA92rFalkXcsrfGUt_zM9uBmUb5HAn12fOrJ6 8Bu1uDdTppBELHQrRmrzSbVHljVIMqQUEglEZtHUyMXHtfWSUvfKiV29oMCCi9YoB4A3EDO22we. Y_K1lrimLPOM4wqulRqC99DDWSpMWKomBvUrZ.UgyCUyr20ko33_UAdZsb5hJzz5Abs80_51mO3Y u3dtQnbvRbY4SgEaKszJR5_zxlUPJ2zXnibEkoKs.JFp69VhbcVgoDoYy4v.Hs1rgcsjQWR0eWRK lnG9ZABGhr22B6T2yvLLpyrjV8oSFlFsvdX89fDls4A7DGxhO6_feo.I8xGOttf9sPSNUM74VEY2 2jZXosqVDFBJc60d2kLGxnG9rrsT95E2hT7V8AlhT__MWPIUi.JYtFnrenqzZ3C3Q41hXhQpGB07 uTW4WYc8TQHPQOQCMQQI0vA5o4YsNcTLVlJrQbustL9NPRvPahfhMpPwaRNEXrUkc2h_Em7lmXT7 NtxYV8QWFvmCMRFgz8KFkXch_f25seVyJTtNTwFIVO_SyJ8WwjumbHr.K_HcIl2J5aUadKWsl4pC FRg.1XmLc9ZfQnAk3pAiJxt6q5nlUTYPMJuKNXTE9enWqKCsALmvnxP4UEF7Q_6zuaY_tp8REvF4 QS1RVEeEZ8i5YCyh.rqFBxekmMxKXlChwFRbV1dfyWfd9hBTApTVQqQZ8W9GufnI9VspGTbtPMBC qWKl6XRtlFV2Q0aM1HhdYVFlxyjdgFrul1cq3Uzc07U.riYok7Z6zuQzKSthGa8UvcOGEVqGQul4 WMwRuLfo.4moGq7gn9Xq1nRJQ08MN7KIqo4BuVLiuZXu0iEn.MoLe1GLpUIB0l50_ZSvPHXBhL.R uD_9uoxVqpUf0rXYE4aQNJk6w Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 16:58:12 +0000 Received: by smtp402.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 4ac505924b6d5a12c445640f7fd1b44b; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 16:58:10 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 17:58:08 +0100 From: Eduardo Morras To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: p11-kit trust no writable location error Message-Id: <20201030175808.487d8baf79f9b0f6ffdb6753@yahoo.es> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20201030175808.487d8baf79f9b0f6ffdb6753.ref@yahoo.es> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CN7mR5V5rz4F6L X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.32 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.es:s=s2048]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.es]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.986]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.es:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.es,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[87.248.110.31:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.84)[-0.841]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.es]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:87.248.110.0/24, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[87.248.110.31:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 16:58:18 -0000 Hi, I'm reinstalling prosody/jitsi in a FreeBSD12.1 fresh install. At the trust certificate step, I execute and get; #trust -v anchor /var/db/prosody/server.crt p11-kit: no configured writable location to store anchors The -v shows no debug info. Man trust and p11-kit says nothing about how to set the location nor internet. Any clue? Thanks --- --- Eduardo Morras From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Oct 31 03:09:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C6A2466754 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 03:09:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x22a.google.com (mail-oi1-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CNPLC0dSWz3dQq for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 03:09:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 9so8710520oir.5 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:09:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CNXEIAKuua9plfYhv76hDQ4vgtnVFr0irkITY1OMfEc=; b=aIglavTlatommZ5a2HER9EaRwTnqhukqPD8H2JHQCpI0HRzlPn21IlUikA5DAWdBED 5N1SdoI7ejcdyLCBzY6bDgt8Dei7MJ4FMrXu+mLKFReGZl+aJqga1IfcvNh7+cbv6JT8 Lwd2+8KzWkxGpMX7b5v20siCAWCnhfJZa8m9x4B33FqrUnE8ptdRelnk544ZV2pKOkrr kBFxEkr4zsqXnVnfoz/ymoYszK1zG1fmk+K94be6j1haNcof+nmixdxfhcHo4LaPy3ji ZJpp1iEe+ojqh/IlVSnrWvaFxIioWwR2H/+ib13Q8sYm70ZkVf9fCbICCvIv/GmuTTw0 02ow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CNXEIAKuua9plfYhv76hDQ4vgtnVFr0irkITY1OMfEc=; b=f+pQpTGaxqND0ibrWj52VfY7zCKaQPSc4UavncyIEveSWN1PJrvwqg2JOHfX6acpqe t1EZKdhWX9dN52d4PUxk2eYM+EV2oBA6PZ7CkMFbWMqAkKUMCHMjRmc2nVK0ODajtrzR M91z+XvfCY6GiejcFLbQp1Ld/DnQbdZ3PuFFSzMZuRekKwFaqlPKY2CahwPzxT9bJ/zp 3edFCYoUht88FdDTNVG2OpsTmP7tW1Nm9CAb5veZI1kjlj9YL2Wfm/2s1kPFyXwOiTdb RSjbYoUqY2aH7v4OJtqP8uGtPhVDv/MjQoweJM01hZGPvUoxYs1ALtx2VEjHpWMIcaFp qn4A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5306EK39BbcYTeUT1WtOaeCED39IYfquPR3roXW+NY899GBoyY6Z MuLExFv/rD4YVkvwZKPT402Lm/Fijxq+5+6cnrlyFOySgcKIiw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJznwiw7lLw5HRfyFPr0zcPcngrpRocnNrQl4a0uYqkod4ygN+V6ASMPjBwUuSt4l3qpHHs/sak9zR/cfz4sPXs= X-Received: by 2002:aca:db05:: with SMTP id s5mr3645901oig.133.1604113793318; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:09:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5dc46e8f-d4d6-f53a-5ae4-0cdc3243dbfc@fechner.net> <8732ada3-264c-4c55-8cba-2d5a697bf226@fechner.net> In-Reply-To: <8732ada3-264c-4c55-8cba-2d5a697bf226@fechner.net> From: Kevin Oberman Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:09:37 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Problems with FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE To: Matthias Fechner Cc: Jack Raats , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CNPLC0dSWz3dQq X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=aIglavTl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kob6558@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kob6558@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.49 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.80)[-0.804]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.003]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.986]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::22a:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 03:09:56 -0000 On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 2:47 AM Matthias Fechner wrote= : > Hi Kevi, > > Am 30.10.2020 um 00:15 schrieb Kevin Oberman: > > Should be no reason to install MOST ports on a minor upgrade like 12.1 to > 12.2. I certainly have not found any need. For major version upgrades, it > is recommended that all ports be reinstalled though only a minority > actually need it. It's just hard to be sure which ones. > > The big exception is ports that provide kernel modules. Most of these wil= l > work after a minor upgrade, but a few are rather touchy. The most touchy, > in my experience, are the drm-kmod ports and, a bit less so, > virtualbox-ose-kmod. I keep full sources on my systems, so I just add the= m > to PORTS_MODULES in /etc/src.conf so that they are built with my kernel. > PORTS_MODULES=3D emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod > PORTS_MODULES+=3D sysutils/lsof > PORTS_MODULES+=3D graphics/drm-fbsd12.0-kmod > I realize that this can be a problem for some, but one system of a given > architecture can build a package that can be added to all others. > > A special case is lsof. lsof actually looks through certain kernel source= s > to build some things and it is important that you either have a package > built against the sources for the current kernel or that you build the po= rt > against the correct contents of /usr/src/sys/. You don't need full > sources... just the kernel. I don't believe that any other port has such = a > requirement except kernel modules. > > > you are fully right and this should be the case. > But for me it was not. TLS connection were not working (postfix, dovecot)= , > rspamd crashed (refused to start with bus error). > > After reinstalling all packages all problems were fixed. > > Maybe this is related to the fact that the compiler was replaced and the > 12.1 binaries do not really work together with the new 12.2 environment. > > Gru=C3=9F > Matthias > > I don't use rspamd, but I do use postfix with dovecot, and it works fine for me. Just "freebsd-update upgrade -r 12.2-RELEASE", "freebsd-update install", reboot, and "freebsd-update install" again. That was all it took and postfix/dovecot are working just fine. I was upgrading from 12.1-RELEASE to and no issues with any ports. (I had no X or any kmod ports on this server.) -- Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Oct 31 13:21:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE41D44BEF9 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 13:21:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rob@belics.com) Received: from belics.com (www.belics.com [107.161.21.234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "belics.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CNfw86G6Tz4SVY for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 13:21:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rob@belics.com) Received: from belics.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by belics.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 09VDLXKo008369 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 08:21:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rob@belics.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=belics.com; s=default; t=1604150498; bh=f9GEo5vB7nHpSPA3dchyUt/hv7GOrBGL4wtMdwXneu8=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=F6WmKAvlLMWN5rEEf6Wv19h8O1mO8m9rNUW8KEcUpV17t4MB7E6W1Ds1QE4+S9Efm NtciucCs9walFqQ14YV5XEGfJNqrRdOJ7ApjyYwJSy0IBhSOMOvo9FTiORX8G+V4IA TGTMD89gPbyZ7QZ2Jd3HZSlW6qLpml3DHK3haDtI= Received: (from rob@localhost) by belics.com (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 09VDLS9u007248 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 08:21:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rob) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 08:21:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Belics Message-Id: <202010311321.09VDLS9u007248@belics.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Interpret /var/spool/mqueue entries X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (belics.com [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 31 Oct 2020 08:21:38 -0500 (CDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CNfw86G6Tz4SVY X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=belics.com header.s=default header.b=F6WmKAvl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=belics.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rob@belics.com designates 107.161.21.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rob@belics.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.96 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[belics.com:s=default]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.026]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.05)[-1.045]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[belics.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[belics.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.893]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3842, ipnet:107.161.20.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 13:21:46 -0000 I thought this was a solved problem in my sendmail configuration but, over the last few days, I've gotten some entries and I've forgotten how to interpret them. To me, it appears that the first two entries show that I'm relaying some mail and it was refused by the receiver. But I'm wondering if someone is impersonating my email address and that is why I'm getting a bounce back. Is that right? What should I check in sendmail configuration? Note that I changed my email in the examples below to me@example.com Mail in local queue: /var/spool/mqueue (4 requests) -----Q-ID----- --Size-- -----Q-Time----- ------------Sender/Recipient----------- 09V3c6st046407 5478 Fri Oct 30 22:38 MAILER-DAEMON (Deferred: Connection refused by mail.distinctionspots.com.) 09UMHcc1059037 5901 Fri Oct 30 17:17 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Oct 31 20:01:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82593454CAF for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:01:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CNqmr2wwPz3ctK for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:01:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.117.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 24E0A1C34F for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:01:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from PD0786.local (130.31-255-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk [62.255.31.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 531311CAC0 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:00:58 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=FreeBSD.org Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/531311CAC0; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral From: Matthew Seaman Subject: Re: Interpret /var/spool/mqueue entries To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <202010311321.09VDLS9u007248@belics.com> Message-ID: <203e817c-4c14-42aa-d7fe-36ac0cf5460e@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:00:57 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202010311321.09VDLS9u007248@belics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:01:00 -0000 On 31/10/2020 13:21, Rob Belics wrote: > I thought this was a solved problem in my sendmail configuration but, over the last few days, I've gotten some entries and I've forgotten how to interpret them. To me, it appears that the first two entries show that I'm relaying some mail and it was refused by the receiver. But I'm wondering if someone is impersonating my email address and that is why I'm getting a bounce back. > > Is that right? What should I check in sendmail configuration? Note that I changed my email in the examples below to me@example.com > > Mail in local queue: > /var/spool/mqueue (4 requests) > -----Q-ID----- --Size-- -----Q-Time----- ------------Sender/Recipient----------- > 09V3c6st046407 5478 Fri Oct 30 22:38 MAILER-DAEMON > (Deferred: Connection refused by mail.distinctionspots.com.) > 09V2c6st082929 9067 Fri Oct 30 21:38 MAILER-DAEMON > (Deferred: Connection refused by mail.enlighteneduponhearing.) > 09UNHHsv062419 2449 Fri Oct 30 18:17 7BIT (Deferred: 421-4.7.0 [107.161.21.234 15] Our system has ) > > 09UMHcc1059037 5901 Fri Oct 30 17:17 7BIT (Deferred) > This looks to me to be spam e-mail that your mail filters have rejected, resulting in your mail system trying to bounce the message back to the sender. However, it seems that the sender isn't accepting any bounce messages, probably because the headers in the original spam were forged. Note that bouncing a spam message like this can be a bad thing: some spammers deliberately send messages that will be bounced, but they put the _real_ targetted victim address into the Sender headers, so their spam message gets reflected from some innocent, but real, mail system thus avoiding various blacklists or reputation scoring tests. It's called "backscatter" spam. The way to avoid this is to configure your mail system and spam filters so that either: * Spam messages are rejected in the middle of the SMTP dialogue, before receipt has been acknowledged. Since receipt has not been acknowledged, the message is still technically the responsibility of the sending system, which should ultimately result in the admins of that system getting bounce-o-grammes and (just possibly) getting clued into the fact that their system is being used to pump out spam and hence fix it.[*] * After receipt, any message determined to be spam is either deleted or quarantined but _not_ bounced back to the sender Cheers, Matthew [*] Actually, spam mail injection frequently comes from compromised desktop systems running some malware without a fully capable SMTP server being involved, in which case, they usually work by replaying a pre-recorded SMTP dialogue and simply can't cope with getting a rejection.[**] [**] Another neat trick here is to add a small delay before your server emits its initial greeting message. Real SMTP servers will wait until you have emitted your greeting. Spam bots frequently will not, and if anything has the temerity to speak out of turn, you can just bounce the message straight away. It's a very cheap but pretty effective filtering mechanism.