From owner-cvs-games Sun Sep 24 00:39:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA09366 for cvs-games-outgoing; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 00:39:42 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA09334 ; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 00:39:15 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA07902; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 09:38:32 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA07883; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 09:38:28 +0200 Message-Id: <199509240738.JAA07883@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: peter@jhome.dialix.com (Peter Wemm), mark@grondar.za, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 09:38:28 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-cvs-games@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This has blown up out of proportion. I am not trying to get rid of games. I was wondering why there were X programs in our non-X distribution, and there was a suggestion that those two ONLY should go to ports. M > > > > On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Mark Murray wrote: > > > > * > Modified: games/x11/xneko xneko.c > > > > > > > > * Just out of interest: What are X programs doing in the FreeBSD distr ibutio > > > n? > > > > * should they not be in ports? > > > > > > > > Apparently (according to the cvs logs), they came with the 4.4-Lite > > > > tape. But I agree with you, it doesn't make much sense to have these > > > > in the main source tree when we don't have X in there! ;) > > > > > > > > And if you just want a cute demo...well, xneko maybe, but xroach is > > > > nothing short of "disgusting". :< > > > > > > I _love_ xroach! I have got some very satisfying (female) screams from > > > running it! :-> :-> :-> > > > > Likewise.. IMHO, *all* of the games should go to "ports". :-) > > And that is YO, CSRG saw it fit to put the games in BSD, this issue > seems to come up about 4 months after new folks come on board. The games > have been part of BSD for a very long time. Removing them moves the > base away from what people expect when you say BSD derived. > > > > I propose to move them to ports. > > > > > > Seconded. > > I am opposed to removing any functionality provided in BSD 4.4 Lite or Lite > 2. > > > The only problem is that there's no real mechanism for actually providing > > a complete "kit", including packaging, source and the works. The only > > way we can make a port out of it, is to make a tar.gz of the source as it > > currently stands and then put it on freefall's ftp area. > > If you don't like the games there has already been complete mechanisms > put in place so you don't have to have them. src tree builds without > them, you can install the binary releases without them. Leave it alone > please. > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-cvs-games Sun Sep 24 01:52:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA12459 for cvs-games-outgoing; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 01:52:28 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12344 ; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 01:47:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA00212; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 01:43:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:43:39 PDT." <199509231143.EAA03444@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 01:43:38 -0700 Message-ID: <210.811932218@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I suggest this line of action: make a $CVSROOT/mastersite for stuff for which we are the MASTERSITE, (sup, and various other bits), have makefiles do a "tar czf" to generate the masterfile to put on the FTP site. make ports of the games/x11 stuff remove games/x11 from src I don't think we should remove games entirely, I still play mille every now and then when I wait for a compile or a meeting. Poul-Henning > * > Modified: games/x11/xneko xneko.c > > * Just out of interest: What are X programs doing in the FreeBSD distributio n? > * should they not be in ports? > > Apparently (according to the cvs logs), they came with the 4.4-Lite > tape. But I agree with you, it doesn't make much sense to have these > in the main source tree when we don't have X in there! ;) > > And if you just want a cute demo...well, xneko maybe, but xroach is > nothing short of "disgusting". :< > > I propose to move them to ports. > > Satoshi -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. It will be some time yet before progress goes to far... (Poul Henningsen) From owner-cvs-games Sun Sep 24 14:05:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA14082 for cvs-games-outgoing; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:05:58 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14061 ; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:05:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA02000; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:03:37 -0700 To: Mark Murray cc: Satoshi Asami , CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:54:43 +0200." <199509230954.LAA20269@grumble.grondar.za> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:03:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1998.811976616@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > asami 95/09/23 02:44:14 > > > > Modified: games/x11/xneko xneko.c > > Log: > > Prototype atof() so that the -speed option works. Closes bin/733. > > > > Submitted by: candy@fct.kgc.co.jp (Toshihiro Kanda) > > Just out of interest: What are X programs doing in the FreeBSD distribution? > should they not be in ports? Repeat after me (with glassy-eyed expression): "If it came on the 4.4 tape, It must be good." That must be it, because if any of *us* had added it you can be sure we'd have been shot at dawn! :-) Seriously, I don't think those programs should stay. I even remember defending them once on the grounds that they made nice, benign examples for X (or some such crap) but why I might have done so I now have no idea. It must have been the 3 cappuccinos. Jordan From owner-cvs-games Sun Sep 24 14:08:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA14189 for cvs-games-outgoing; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:08:05 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14183 ; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:07:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA02025; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:07:25 -0700 To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:43:39 PDT." <199509231143.EAA03444@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:07:25 -0700 Message-ID: <2022.811976845@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > And if you just want a cute demo...well, xneko maybe, but xroach is > nothing short of "disgusting". :< HEY, xroach RULES, D00D!! ;-) Jordan P.S. No, really! It still remains my favorite x client application of all time. Say nice things about xroach! :) From owner-cvs-games Sun Sep 24 14:10:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA14352 for cvs-games-outgoing; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:10:29 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14323 ; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:10:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA02042; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:09:18 -0700 To: Peter Wemm cc: Mark Murray , Satoshi Asami , CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 Sep 1995 20:09:41 +0800." Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:09:18 -0700 Message-ID: <2040.811976958@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-cvs-games@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > IMHO, packaging it up into "LOCAL_PORTS" on freefall is pretty gross. On > the other hand, it'd be a shame to bloat the size of the ports collection. I think this is the least gross solution. Still gross, yes, but we're talking about picking the least of multiple evils. Jordan From owner-cvs-games Sun Sep 24 14:16:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA14703 for cvs-games-outgoing; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:16:12 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14668 ; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:15:50 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08579; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 23:15:24 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA01509; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 23:15:23 +0200 Message-Id: <199509242115.XAA01509@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Peter Wemm , Mark Murray , Satoshi Asami , CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 23:15:22 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-cvs-games@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > IMHO, packaging it up into "LOCAL_PORTS" on freefall is pretty gross. On > > the other hand, it'd be a shame to bloat the size of the ports collection. > > I think this is the least gross solution. Still gross, yes, but we're > talking about picking the least of multiple evils. Is there no bsd-4.4 master site anywhere that could be used as a 'reference' source? M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-cvs-games Tue Sep 26 01:30:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA25227 for cvs-games-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:30:57 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA25218 ; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:30:48 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA29115; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:30:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:30:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199509260830.BAA29115@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: mark@grondar.za CC: CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199509231153.NAA11693@grumble.grondar.za> (message from Mark Murray on Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:53:29 +0200) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * > And if you just want a cute demo...well, xneko maybe, but xroach is * > nothing short of "disgusting". :< * * I _love_ xroach! I have got some very satisfying (female) screams from * running it! :-> :-> :-> Ok ok I apologize, I wasn't thinking when I typed the above. My apologies to Mark, Jordan and the lovely cockroaches. ;) Satoshi P.S. To the 'roaches: just stay out of my room, ok? From owner-cvs-games Tue Sep 26 01:38:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA25628 for cvs-games-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:38:53 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA25609 ; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:38:43 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA02078; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:38:06 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:38:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199509260838.BAA02078@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: mark@grondar.za CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, peter@jhome.dialix.com, mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199509242115.XAA01509@grumble.grondar.za> (message from Mark Murray on Sun, 24 Sep 1995 23:15:22 +0200) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-cvs-games@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * Is there no bsd-4.4 master site anywhere that could be used as a 'reference' * source? Good line of thinking, we should probably look at this more if we ever decide to move all the games out of our main source tree. (Although I doubt we will agree to do this....) But for xneko and xroach, we don't even have to look that far, as these are programs posted to the source newsgroups some time ago. There are plenty of places that still carry the real "originals", so finding a suitable master site not a problem should we choose to move them to ports. Satoshi From owner-cvs-games Tue Sep 26 01:50:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA26199 for cvs-games-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:50:46 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA26172 ; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:50:35 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA05448; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:49:13 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:49:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199509260849.BAA05448@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: peter@jhome.dialix.com CC: mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Peter Wemm on Sat, 23 Sep 1995 20:09:41 +0800 (WST)) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-cvs-games@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * It'd be really nice if there was an easy, sanctioned way of including an * entire (SMALL!!) source tree somehow with the port, perhaps under * files/source/*? We could do away with patches, as we could just cvs commit * directly into the source. There has been an attempt to make this possible, as can be seen in the comment about NO_EXTRACT in the /usr/ports/GUIDELINES file. (Yeah I know, we should get rid of that file.) Unfortunately, it doesn't work real well. But it's not difficult anyway, you can just put them under "files" and make a do-extract rule that's a bunch of cp's. Not the most efficient way but very easy. * IMHO, packaging it up into "LOCAL_PORTS" on freefall is pretty gross. On * the other hand, it'd be a shame to bloat the size of the ports collection. I agree on both, and if it's real small (say, less than 10KB or so), I don't see any problem just putting the source in there. I'll strongly oppose bringing in a complete source tree unless it's very small though. The beauty of the ports collection is that we can tell the user to go "get ports.tar.gz", without having them getting annoyed by the amount of disk space required. Granted the ports collection has grown a lot recently, but the diskspace/# of ports ratio has remained constant. :) Satoshi From owner-cvs-games Tue Sep 26 01:59:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA26617 for cvs-games-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:59:18 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA26607 ; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:59:10 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA12333; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:59:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:59:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199509260859.BAA12333@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: phk@critter.tfs.com CC: mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <210.811932218@critter.tfs.com> (message from Poul-Henning Kamp on Sun, 24 Sep 1995 01:43:38 -0700) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * make a $CVSROOT/mastersite for stuff for which we are the MASTERSITE, * (sup, and various other bits), have makefiles do a "tar czf" * to generate the masterfile to put on the FTP site. I'm not sure what this is going to buy us. How are we going to maintain the original bits that gets pulled into them? Another cvs tree? :) * I don't think we should remove games entirely, I still play mille every now * and then when I wait for a compile or a meeting. I think we can move them to ports, maybe make a new category for nostalgists called "bsd-games" or something so that you can pkg_add them easily. But then I hardly classify as a BSD historian, I only spend a few years playing "hangman" and "worm". :) Satoshi From owner-cvs-games Fri Sep 29 01:25:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA03261 for cvs-games-outgoing; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:25:02 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA03247 ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:24:45 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA00743; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:24:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:24:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199509290824.BAA00743@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: phk@critter.tfs.com CC: mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <272.812107080@critter.tfs.com> (message from Poul-Henning Kamp on Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:18:00 +0100) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * > I'm not sure what this is going to buy us. How are we going to * > maintain the original bits that gets pulled into them? Another cvs * > tree? :) * * I'ts going to buy us CVS control over the sources.. Ok, another question: then what will it gain us compared to it living in /usr/src? The main objective to move things out to ports is to "unbloat" the cvs tree, it seems to me that if we keep it under cvs control on another tree, it's just unbloating one tree and bloating another...(^_^;).... Satoshi From owner-cvs-games Fri Sep 29 01:43:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA03793 for cvs-games-outgoing; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:43:09 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA03766 ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:42:44 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA14637; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:41:17 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA19918; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:41:16 +0200 Message-Id: <199509290841.KAA19918@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:41:15 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * > I'm not sure what this is going to buy us. How are we going to > * > maintain the original bits that gets pulled into them? Another cvs > * > tree? :) > * > * I'ts going to buy us CVS control over the sources.. > > Ok, another question: then what will it gain us compared to it living > in /usr/src? The main objective to move things out to ports is to > "unbloat" the cvs tree, it seems to me that if we keep it under cvs > control on another tree, it's just unbloating one tree and bloating > another...(^_^;).... It will unbloat the cvs tree, the distributed binaries and the distributed sources. The binaries and sources will no longer have X code in them, the cvs src/ tree will no longer have X source in it, and the cvs ports area will only have port stubs. BTW - there are three X pieces that I am aware of now - xneko, xroach and gnu XChess. ((begin disclaimer)This is not a personal vendetta - I like the games - I just don't see why X stuff should be distributed with base FreeBSD (end disclaimer)) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-cvs-games Fri Sep 29 02:15:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA06249 for cvs-games-outgoing; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:15:26 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA06242 ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:15:10 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0sybX1-0003viC; Fri, 29 Sep 95 02:14 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02670; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:14:56 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:24:38 MST." <199509290824.BAA00743@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:14:56 +0100 Message-ID: <2668.812366096@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * > I'm not sure what this is going to buy us. How are we going to > * > maintain the original bits that gets pulled into them? Another cvs > * > tree? :) > * > * I'ts going to buy us CVS control over the sources.. > > Ok, another question: then what will it gain us compared to it living > in /usr/src? The main objective to move things out to ports is to > "unbloat" the cvs tree, it seems to me that if we keep it under cvs > control on another tree, it's just unbloating one tree and bloating > another...(^_^;).... It's all a question of modularization... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. It will be some time yet before progress goes to far... (Poul Henningsen) From owner-cvs-games Fri Sep 29 02:20:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA06455 for cvs-games-outgoing; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:20:40 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA06434 ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:20:17 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA01025; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:18:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:18:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199509290918.CAA01025@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: mark@grondar.za CC: phk@critter.tfs.com, mark@grondar.za, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199509290841.KAA19918@grumble.grondar.za> (message from Mark Murray on Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:41:15 +0200) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * It will unbloat the cvs tree, the distributed binaries and the distributed * sources. Well, the mail I was replying to said we keep it under control of cvs (but not in the main cvs tree nor ports tree...probably another subtree). * The binaries and sources will no longer have X code in them, the cvs src/ * tree will no longer have X source in it, and the cvs ports area will only * have port stubs. I don't see much difference since the binary distribution and source distribution are already broken up into small pieces. And we will still have to supply the source somehow, if we insist on keeping it under cvs control. (Agreed, the binary part will shrink, 'cause they will be in packages.) Well, for xneko/xroach (and gnuchess?), I think we can just forget about cvs, remove them from the main source tree and make them pure ports. They didn't originate in CSRG, and I don't think they have been modified much from the originals. For the other games, if people want to keep them under cvs control, I don't see much point in moving them out, as much as I love to see the main source tree shrink. Satoshi From owner-cvs-games Fri Sep 29 02:57:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-cvs-games Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA08414 for cvs-games-outgoing; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:57:23 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA08392 ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:57:01 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA16853; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:55:44 +1000 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:55:44 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509290955.TAA16853@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, mark@grondar.za Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/games/x11/xneko xneko.c Cc: CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-games@freefall.freebsd.org, phk@critter.tfs.com Sender: owner-cvs-games@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Well, for xneko/xroach (and gnuchess?), I think we can just forget >about cvs, remove them from the main source tree and make them pure >ports. They didn't originate in CSRG, and I don't think they have >been modified much from the originals. gnu/games/chess is so old that it doesn't even have a version number. It is dated April 1988. The current version is gnuchess-4.0.pl75 (July 1995). The only virtues of the 1988 version are that the 1995 version is 22 times as large (mainly for the opening book) and harder to defeat. If gnu/chess/Xchess is counted in the sizes, then the 1995 version is only 11 times as large, but the X part of gnuchess was long ago split into the xboard distribution and xboard is already in ports although the version there is already 3 patchlevels old. Bruce