From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 00:55:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA21976 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 00:55:41 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA21970 ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 00:55:39 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA13758; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 03:48:36 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 03:48:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: terryl@CS.Stanford.EDU, jkh@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: installing a new snap In-Reply-To: <199504160617.XAA24031@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 15 Apr 1995, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > I tried basically the same thing, running extract.sh off of the release > > off of NFS, especially the source directory because I am having a strange > > problem when I try to compile the kernel (it says it doesn't understand > > the %CLEAN directive in the generic makefile [which hasn't changed] and > > This I can explain :-) > > You need to get the source for and compile the "config" program. I don't know why, but that worked like a charm, first time! Thanks, -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 01:58:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA23305 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 01:58:31 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA23291 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 01:58:24 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA26987; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:58:17 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA11157; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:58:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA15934; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 09:57:22 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504160757.JAA15934@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: installing a new snap To: terryl@CS.Stanford.EDU (Terry Lee) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 09:57:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Terry Lee" at Apr 15, 95 04:32:42 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 417 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lee wrote: > > I'm worried that if there are any changes in the standard /etc, I won't > be getting them. After the install: mv /etc /etc.bak tar -xvf /dev/rfd0 /* re-install old /etc */ diff -r /etc /etc.bak Look if you're missing something important. :-/ -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 01:58:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA23326 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 01:58:46 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA23307 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 01:58:35 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27010; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:58:22 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA11169 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:58:19 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA16160 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:43:29 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504160843.KAA16160@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Memory usage (Was Re: Memory init pattern) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:43:29 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Apr 15, 95 07:48:00 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2266 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Audience extended to -hackers, since it's a general topic.] As Frank Durda IV wrote: > > By the way, I have seen no description of how FreeBSD uses PC memory, ie > what 0-640K gets used for, does the kernel load there or higher, > is the kernel relocated, etc. Is there a paper on this? Since i've just digged through the boot code, i can tell you what's going there. :) [Someone going to collect this sort of messages and making a kernel hackers manual?] The boot sector will be loaded at 0:0x7c00, and relocates itself immediately to 0x7c0:0. (This is nothing magic, just an adjustment for the %cs selector, done by an ljmp.) It then loads the first 15 sectors at 0x10000 (segment BOOTSEG in the biosboot Makefile), and sets up the stack to work below 0x1fff0. After this, it jumps to the entry of boot2 within that code. I.e., it jumps over itself and the (dummy) partition table, and it's going to adjust the %cs selector -- we are still in 16-bit mode there. boot2 asks for the boot file, and examines the a.out header. It masks the file entry point (usually 0xf0100000) by 0x00ffffff, and loads the file there. Hence the usual load point is 1 MB (0x00100000). During load, the boot code toggles back and forth between real and protected mode, to use the BIOS in real mode. The boot code itself uses segment selectors 0x18 and 0x20 for %cs and %ds/%es in protected mode, and 0x28 to jump back into real mode. The kernel is finally started with %cs 0x08 and %ds/%es/%ss 0x10, which refer to dummy descriptors covering the whole address space. The kernel will be started at its load point. Since it's been linked for another (high) address, it will have to execute PIC until the page table and page directory stuff is setup properly, at which point paging will be enabled and the kernel finally runs at the address where it has been linked to. The kernel still skips over the first 0x500 bytes of code, in the assumption this were valuable BIOS data space (back from old days where it has been loaded low). The later memory usage (once paging is enabled) could better be explained by the VM folks. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 01:59:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA23337 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 01:59:01 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA23331 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 01:58:56 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27002; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:58:20 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA11163; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:58:17 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA16072; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:12:27 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504160812.KAA16072@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: WinNT vs. FreeBSD To: ianw@ee.su.oz.au (Ian Wynne) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:12:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Ian Wynne" at Apr 16, 95 12:54:42 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 685 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ian Wynne wrote: > > I haven't posted this to any of the news groups because I thought it would > only serve as flame bait. I don't think you'd have been flamed for *this* kind of mail, at least not when posted to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc. :-) Thank'ya for the flowers. ;-) > When Windows NT 3.5 is powering up it says it's build number 807, so there > have bee 806 previous attempts and it's still unstable. Hmm, if we'd all leave our kernel build numbers in the release, i guess the number would have four digits (or five?). :-] -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 02:55:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA25394 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 02:55:56 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA25386 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 02:55:53 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id CAA21339 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 02:55:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA00143 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 02:55:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199504160955.CAA00143@corbin.Root.COM> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: Memory usage (Was Re: Memory init pattern) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Apr 95 10:43:29 +0200." <199504160843.KAA16160@uriah.heep.sax.de> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 02:55:50 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As Frank Durda IV wrote: >> >> By the way, I have seen no description of how FreeBSD uses PC memory, ie >> what 0-640K gets used for, does the kernel load there or higher, >> is the kernel relocated, etc. Is there a paper on this? ... >The later memory usage (once paging is enabled) could better be >explained by the VM folks. The physical pages immediately following the kernel BSS contain proc0's page directory, page tables, and upages. Some time later when the VM system is initialized, the physical memory between 0x1000-0x9ffff and the physical memory after the kernel (text+data+bss+proc0 stuff+other misc) is made available in the form of general VM pages and added to the global free page list. Does this answer the question? -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 05:01:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA28226 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 05:01:37 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA28213 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 05:00:59 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 15:58 GMT+0400 From: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: 950412 hanging X-Mailer: GNOS 2.3.3d Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmm, the problem persists: the system hangs on the 'sd0(aha0:0:0): Direct-Access 525MB (1075649 512 byte sectors)' message... (It's quantum 540S 241E LIGHTNING and it's the only SCSI device in the system). Is it feasible to compile 950322 kernel with 950412 SNAP utilities? AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 05:41:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA28870 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 05:41:59 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA28864 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 05:41:51 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA03449; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:41:13 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id OAA13519 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:41:12 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA17930 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:37:18 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504161237.OAA17930@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Memory usage (Was Re: Memory init pattern) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:37:17 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504160955.CAA00143@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 16, 95 02:55:50 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 390 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > > >The later memory usage (once paging is enabled) could better be > >explained by the VM folks. ... > Does this answer the question? Thanks, David. I'm going to assemble the pieces, and put it into the FAQ area. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 09:37:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA06207 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 09:37:23 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA06201 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 09:37:21 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (4.1/WDL-4.2) id AA25270; Sun, 16 Apr 95 09:36:48 PDT Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA11044; Sun, 16 Apr 95 12:37:46 EDT Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:37:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: aspfilter & stdin Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gentlemen, For the last three days I have been trying to make 'apsfilter' work on my 2.0R system. I have learned a lot, but have hit a final sticking point. 'apsfilter' is started by the lpd. It tries to determine the type of file that is being printed. Unfortunately, it uses `file -` to determine the type of file. A companion program is supplied called 'rewindstdin'. main() { return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; } This program is supposed to allow the reading of stdin a second time by 'a2ps' after the parameters and filters have been determined. This program does not work in FreeBSD as designed. I then thought to read the spooled datafile in place of the stdin to determine file type. Unfortunatly the apsfilter runs as daemon.wheel, which does not have the correct permissions to read the spooled data. I then made apsflter 02755 owned by root.daemon. Unfortunately it still ran as daemon.wheel. Is my final option to cat stdin off to another temp file, work with it there, and pass that as the file to a2ps to print. With a 10MB Postscript file, that would mean three copies (orig. , spool, temp). Is there any way to make rewindstdin function? Or at least provide the equivelant functionality? There were other problems I have had with this package that I will comment on later if I ever get it running. ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 09:55:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA06348 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 09:55:25 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA06342 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 09:55:23 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA23337; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:57:48 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504161657.MAA23337@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: ianw@ee.su.oz.au (Ian Wynne) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Ian Wynne" at Apr 16, 95 12:54:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3260 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HI there ppl, > > Hello Everyone: > > I haven't posted this to any of the news groups because I thought it would > only serve as flame bait. > > In my day job I'm a network administrator for a small network using > a Windos NT server. When the server is heavely loaded, it crashes. Sometimes >after it's crashed one of the user permissions has been corrupted ( and perhaps > > When Windows NT 3.5 is powering up it says it's build number 807, so there > have bee 806 previous attempts and it's still unstable. > > I use FreeBSD at home and I haven't been able to make it crash by loading it up.I can untar something from tape, gunzip something and compile something else > all the same time, it slows but doesn't stop. > > I've found FreeBSD to be very stable. Well , I have FreeBSD 2.1Dev. installed on P5/90-128Mb RAM/1+4Gb HDD/ SCSI/PCI with 30-35 users working in the same time , elm'ing,pine'ing,tin'ing,gzipping/gunzipping/(un)tarring, running Bots ( alas ) and doing god_only_knows_what_else, while happy author runs the X11 - some 2 Emacs'es + gdb , gnuchess under xboard , plus 4-6 xterm sessions on the local net - and it works incredibly fast and pretty stable ( hopefully I've fixed the problem with X server ( S3) freezing the sytem sporadically, due to the help of folx here // they helped me to solve the problem - not to freeze the system // ). The load average is somewhere between 0.2 - 1.5%. To be short - the guys from FreeBSD team've made a GREAT job. Personnaly I've found this mailing lists as well as usenet groups dedicated to the FreeBSD the best tech. support I've seen :) _All questions I asked here were answered the same day . The BSD community grows day by day. I do not see any alternative to the FreeBSD conserning user servers for Internet providers. Providing one has a pretty good brand of PC - he/she can build a very stable and fast server ... The same time capricious nature of PC's architecture provides bottomless supply of problems for OS developers - incl. Windows/OS-2/Unices. Other problem FreeBSD users face with is lack of the commercial apps they used to have on Windos/DOS ... It's quite obvious that Microsoft - the main ... well , reseller/manufacter of the SW for the PC's is _not interested in porting the apps to Unix platforms . The only app I'm aware of is MS Word. A huge amount of time was spent porting FoxPro to Unix. Other SW manufacters are much more democratic ... at least considering _commercial flavors of Unix. Anyone , who works with Unix/X11 long enough understands that properly written app. can be ported to _any graphical environment pretty fast - incl. Windows/X11/MacOS I think we all here will have no problemo paying for the commercial product for the FreeBSD. Equal amount of money to that we pay for say , Windows version. As sysadmin I'm pretty satisfied with free products I have on my system , but users as always want all apps they used to have on Windows to work on the Unix. They don't want to know the difference between different OS'es I hope that some sunny day they will start porting apps to Unix/X11 , incl.FreeBSD , and from that day on will use much more #ifdef's in their new products ;) Rashid. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 09:57:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA06360 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 09:57:38 -0700 Received: from GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.91]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA06354 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 09:57:37 -0700 Received: from localhost by GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa06571; 16 Apr 95 12:57 EDT From: moto@CS.cmu.edu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: AHC2940 + Micropolis/Seagate w/wo tagged queueing Reply-To: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:56:53 -0400 Message-ID: <6567.798051413@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have two types of drive (Micropolis 4221 and Seagate Barracuda I (ST11950N)) and an AHA-2490. I did some experiments with these drives enabling/disabling the tagged queueing option on 940412-SNAP. Here is the result: Machine: GATEWAY2000 P5-100 Controller: AHA-2940 Case 1) Kernel: 950412-SNAP stock Drive: Seagate Barracuda I Result: perfectly working (even with 10MB/s xfer rate). Case 2) Kernel: 950412-SNAP recompiled with AHC_TAGENABLE Drive: Seagate Barracuda I Result: panics and reboots right after the drive is probed no matter how fast the xfer rate is. Case 3) Kernel: 950412-SNAP stock Drive: Micropolis 4221 Result: working but up to 8MB/s. When 10MB/s is selected, timeout occurs. Case 4) Kernel: 950412-SNAP recompiled with AHC_TAGENABLE Drive: Micropolis 4221 Result: timeout occurs even with 5MB/s xfer rate as before (In either cases, only one SCSI drive is attached. No other SCSI devices is present.) I think that 950412 kernel is almost rock solid w.r.t. aha2940 driver, but looks like it still has a subtle timing problem. Not to mention, there is a possibility that this is just caused by a drive's firmware problem, though. I'd like to hear an experience from other people who are using aha2940. Thanks! ============================================================================== Motonori Shindou Carnegie Mellon University SCS Graduate Student e-mail: moto@cs.cmu.edu, NiftyServe: GEG04056 WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001:/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/moto/WWW/moto-home.html TEL: 412-362-9636 FAX: 412-362-9634 ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 11:43:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA08840 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 11:43:04 -0700 Received: from blackadder2.cis.mcmaster.ca (blackadder2.CIS.McMaster.CA [130.113.128.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA08593 ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 11:41:22 -0700 Received: from water.Eng.McMaster.CA by blackadder2.cis.mcmaster.ca with SMTP id AA06173 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:45:18 -0400 Received: by water.eng.mcmaster.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04932; Sun, 16 Apr 95 14:37:51 EDT Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:37:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Todd Pfaff To: questions@FreeBSD.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? Would it be compatible with any of the supported PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? If anyone is working on support for it, I'm willing to test. Alternatively, I could work on this project if I had the proper technical documentation. Please reply directly since I'm not currently subscribed to the lists. -- Todd Pfaff \ Internet: todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca Dept. of Mechanical Engineering \ Voice: (905) 525-9140 x27351 McMaster University \ FAX: (905) 572-7944 Hamilton, Ontario, CANADA L8S 4L7 \ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 12:33:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA12060 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:33:14 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA12052 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:33:10 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA07697; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:30:24 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504161930.MAA07697@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Apr 16, 95 12:37:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 979 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Gentlemen, > For the last three days I have been trying to make 'apsfilter' work > on my 2.0R system. I have learned a lot, but have hit a final sticking > point. > > 'apsfilter' is started by the lpd. It tries to determine the type of > file that is being printed. Unfortunately, it uses `file -` to determine > the type of file. A companion program is supplied called 'rewindstdin'. > > main() > { > return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; > } Is that the sole content of the file? No #includes?? If so try this program: #include int main() { return (lseek(0,0L,0) < 0); } The problem could be that without including unistd.h the arg types to the lseek call are wrong (FreeBSD uses a 64Bit offset). Thus the third argument to lseek was trash, and that is the whence argument :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 12:54:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA12424 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:54:46 -0700 Received: from remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.82.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA12374 ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 12:52:28 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb/3.3Wb) id EAA11376; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 04:52:03 +0900 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 04:52:03 +0900 Message-Id: <199504161952.EAA11376@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:37:50 -0400 (EDT). From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca writes: >> Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS >> in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? Would it be >> compatible with any of the supported PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? If anyone >> is working on support for it, I'm willing to test. Alternatively, I could >> work on this project if I had the proper technical documentation. I heard Xircom hates free software, and I've not heard that their policy had changed. So you won't read any technical documentation as long as you want to use it for free software. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 13:14:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA12984 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 13:14:27 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA12976 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 13:14:19 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13228; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:13:50 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA16240; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:13:42 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA00686; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:11:41 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504162011.WAA00686@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:11:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Apr 16, 95 12:37:44 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 748 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Richard Toren wrote: > > Gentlemen, :) [trying to get apsfilter to work on FreeBSD] > ... A companion program is supplied called 'rewindstdin'. > > main() > { > return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; > } I've already wondered how this should work on a pipe after Andreas described it to me on the phone. I'd suggest you to contact Andreas Klemm for this, he knows best what he's done. (I'm Cc'ing him for this, but his mail relay doesn't seem to be reliable all the time.) Andreas does also know about the ~/.apsfilterrc vulnerability, and i think he's working on some fix for this. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 14:01:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA14329 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:01:41 -0700 Received: from wn1.sci.kun.nl (wn1.sci.kun.nl [131.174.8.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14320 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:01:38 -0700 Received: from studs.sci.kun.nl by wn1.sci.kun.nl via studs.sci.kun.nl [131.174.124.5] with ESMTP id XAA24090 (8.6.10/2.9); Sun, 16 Apr 1995 23:01:35 +0200 From: William Wanders Received: by studs.sci.kun.nl id XAA15103 (8.6.10/2.1); Sun, 16 Apr 1995 23:01:34 +0200 Message-Id: <199504162101.XAA15103@studs.sci.kun.nl> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 23:01:33 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Apr 16, 95 12:37:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2017 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello Richard, > > Gentlemen, > For the last three days I have been trying to make 'apsfilter' work > on my 2.0R system. I have learned a lot, but have hit a final sticking > point. > > 'apsfilter' is started by the lpd. It tries to determine the type of > file that is being printed. Unfortunately, it uses `file -` to determine > the type of file. A companion program is supplied called 'rewindstdin'. > > main() > { > return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; > } Try : #include main() { rewind(stdin); return(0); } > > This program is supposed to allow the reading of stdin a second time > by 'a2ps' after the parameters and filters have been determined. > This program does not work in FreeBSD as designed. > > I then thought to read the spooled datafile in place of the stdin to > determine file type. Unfortunatly the apsfilter runs as daemon.wheel, > which does not have the correct permissions to read the spooled data. > I then made apsflter 02755 owned by root.daemon. Unfortunately it still > ran as daemon.wheel. > > Is my final option to cat stdin off to another temp file, work with it > there, and pass that as the file to a2ps to print. With a 10MB > Postscript file, that would mean three copies (orig. , spool, temp). > > Is there any way to make rewindstdin function? Or at least provide > the equivelant functionality? > > There were other problems I have had with this package that I will comment > on later if I ever get it running. > I've got apsfilter up and running for several months now. Since version 2.x or something. Every release had the same problem with rewindstdin.c. Although i informed the author he didn't incorporate any of my changes. Eg. have the standard accounting scheme running with apsfilter 4.8 and it seems quite stable. That is if you think 3000 correctly counted pages are enough proof. If you are interrested i can supply my modified filter with accounting :) William Wanders (wwanders@sci.kun.nl) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 14:35:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15218 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:35:18 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA15212 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:35:07 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA17611; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 07:31:03 +1000 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 07:31:03 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504162131.HAA17611@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de, rpt@miles.sso.loral.com Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >[trying to get apsfilter to work on FreeBSD] >> ... A companion program is supplied called 'rewindstdin'. >> >> main() >> { >> return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; >> } >I've already wondered how this should work on a pipe after Andreas >described it to me on the phone. I'd suggest you to contact Andreas It must fail on pipes and set errno to ESPIPE. I'm currently looking at a bug involving lseek() not failing on named pipes. Ordinary pipes are handled correctly in vfs_syscalls.c:lseek() because fp->f_type is DTYPE_SOCKET for them. For named pipes, fp->f_type is DTYPE_VNODE (this seems appropriate because there really is a vnode) so lseek() does the wrong thing. There are probably other places where named pipes should be handled like ordinary pipes (mostly in kern_descrip.c). File timestamps are broken for both ordinary pipes and named pipes. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 14:54:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15566 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:54:06 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA15560 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 14:54:05 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (4.1/WDL-4.2) id AA04349; Sun, 16 Apr 95 14:53:32 PDT Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA11377; Sun, 16 Apr 95 17:54:30 EDT Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:54:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: aspfilter & stdin Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have modified the 'rewindstdin.c' as: #include #include main() { return lseek(0,0L,SEEK_SET) < 0; } Giving the following results: # make cc -s -O -o rewindstdin rewindstdin.c # cat rewindstdin.c | (file -; ./rewindstdin ;file -) standard input: c program text standard input: empty I thought about the possibility that the stdin redirection would be a pipe, and tried with a small file (<512 bytes) with the same results. ?? why the '< 0' of the return code?? Stuck.... ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 15:04:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA15801 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 15:04:04 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA15755 ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 15:02:19 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA15029; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:56:12 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:56:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: HOSOKAWA Tatsumi cc: todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? In-Reply-To: <199504161952.EAA11376@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 1995, HOSOKAWA Tatsumi wrote: > >> Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS > >> in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? Would it be > >> compatible with any of the supported PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? If anyone > >> is working on support for it, I'm willing to test. Alternatively, I could > >> work on this project if I had the proper technical documentation. > > I heard Xircom hates free software, and I've not heard that their > policy had changed. So you won't read any technical documentation as > long as you want to use it for free software. > Doesn't Linux have a driver supporting some Xircom hardware? I could have sworn I have seen those running around. Moreover, I still haven't figured out why companies that make *hardware* hate free software? Its not like making free software will reduce the purchases or profit margins of their hardware, in fact, it will probably increase them. [software doesn't make much sense without hardware]. --How could we run FreeBSD without several megabytes of RAM? Texas Instruments and/or Micron aren't going to say their chips aren't designed to be used with free software. Ah well... -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 15:33:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA16674 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 15:33:59 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA16666 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 15:33:56 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA15834 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 17 Apr 1995 02:29:51 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 17 Apr 95 02:29:50 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id CAA02375; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 02:30:11 +0400 To: Richard Toren , William Wanders Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <199504162101.XAA15103@studs.sci.kun.nl> In-Reply-To: <199504162101.XAA15103@studs.sci.kun.nl>; from William Wanders at Sun, 16 Apr 1995 23:01:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 02:30:10 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin Lines: 23 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 519 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504162101.XAA15103@studs.sci.kun.nl> William Wanders writes: >Try : >#include >main() >{ > rewind(stdin); > return(0); >} Yet one: fpurge(stdin); Maybe it isn't ANSI, but works better. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 15:38:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA16935 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 15:38:44 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA16908 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 15:38:38 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA16327; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:38:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA16781; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:38:33 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA00821; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:16:13 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504162016.WAA00821@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca (Todd Pfaff) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:16:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Todd Pfaff" at Apr 16, 95 02:37:50 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 428 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Todd Pfaff wrote: > > Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS > in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? I've read somewhere that Xircom has a very restrictive copyright policy. You'll perhaps be outta luck getting documentation. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 17:10:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA02197 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:10:53 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA02191 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:10:50 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA18745 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 16 Apr 1995 19:00:43 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA02558; 16 Apr 95 18:59:54 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA02555; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 18:59:53 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504162359.SAA02555@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 18:59:52 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Apr 16, 95 05:54:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 992 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have modified the 'rewindstdin.c' as: > #include > #include > main() > { > return lseek(0,0L,SEEK_SET) < 0; > } > Giving the following results: > # make > cc -s -O -o rewindstdin rewindstdin.c > # cat rewindstdin.c | (file -; ./rewindstdin ;file -) > standard input: c program text > standard input: empty You can't rewind a pipe. Period. Try "(file - ; ./rewindstdin ; file -) < rewindstdin.c". > ?? why the '< 0' of the return code?? RETURN VALUES Upon successful completion, lseek() returns the resulting offset location as measured in bytes from the beginning of the file. Otherwise, a value of -1 is returned and errno is set to indicate the error. It should be "return lseek(0,0L,SEEK_SET) == -1;" I don't believe that any other nonzero result is possible in this case, but it's always better to check for the documented return value. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 21:22:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA01776 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 21:22:01 -0700 Received: from FirePower.COM (firepower.firepower.com [198.4.104.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA01770 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 21:21:59 -0700 Received: from tuskppp by FirePower.COM (NX5.67d/NX4.0Mhb.0b) id AA29151; Sun, 16 Apr 95 21:21:55 -0700 Received: from rhiannon by tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us (NX5.67e/NX3.0M.dsms.0.3) id AA20952; Sun, 16 Apr 95 21:21:19 -0700 Message-Id: <9504170421.AA20952@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us> Received: by rhiannon.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA02375; Sun, 16 Apr 95 21:21:19 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: harold barker Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 21:21:17 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: 3c589 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone have the 3c589 working with 0412-SNAP? If so i could use some help. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 22:09:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02616 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:09:03 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA02610 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:09:01 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06646; Sun, 16 Apr 95 23:02:08 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504170502.AA06646@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 23:02:08 MDT Cc: todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504162016.WAA00821@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 16, 95 10:16:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS > > in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? > > I've read somewhere that Xircom has a very restrictive copyright > policy. You'll perhaps be outta luck getting documentation. If someone is interested in disassembling Xircom's code and documenting their registers and proper programming procative from the code, then posting that information, this would allow someone else to write a driver without problems. On the other hand, I have suggested many times that the loadable kernel modules should have their loader code in the kernel, and this is one example why: to enable demand loading in a general case seperate from consideration of the symbol tables to enable the loading od Novell ODI drivers for servers. These are protected mode driver that exist for nearly all ethernet and many token ring and other odd cards. That UnixWare does it proves it is possible. Kurt Mahon has hinted that he might be able to get some of his code for this released. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 22:19:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02706 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:19:06 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA02700 ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:19:05 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06686; Sun, 16 Apr 95 23:12:14 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504170512.AA06686@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: nc@ain.charm.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 23:12:13 MDT Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Apr 16, 95 05:56:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS > > >> in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? Would it be > > >> compatible with any of the supported PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? If anyone > > >> is working on support for it, I'm willing to test. Alternatively, I could > > >> work on this project if I had the proper technical documentation. > > > > I heard Xircom hates free software, and I've not heard that their > > policy had changed. So you won't read any technical documentation as > > long as you want to use it for free software. > > > > Doesn't Linux have a driver supporting some Xircom hardware? I could have > sworn I have seen those running around. Moreover, I still haven't figured > out why companies that make *hardware* hate free software? Its not like > making free software will reduce the purchases or profit margins of their > hardware, in fact, it will probably increase them. [software doesn't make > much sense without hardware]. --How could we run FreeBSD without several > megabytes of RAM? Texas Instruments and/or Micron aren't going to say > their chips aren't designed to be used with free software. Xircom has figured out a rather fast way to talk to ethernets using parallel ports to do the job. The are noticibly unanxious to document this mechanism so that it can be programmed to by their competitors (both allowing the competitor to leverage Xircom marketing efforts by using their drivers ["The card's just like Xircom, only cheaper because we're not amortizing our software costs across an increased hardware cost"] and allowing the competitors access to the interface technology itself by telling them how to do half the work instead of providing undocumented binary code. If the competitor disassembled the code and derived the interface that way, then they would have to amortize the costs of doing so across the cost of *their* equipment, giving them less incentive to do so. So basically it's an anticompetitive practice that happens to not be illegal under either Sherman (Anti Trust) or Rico (Anti Racketeering). There are some absurd technical reasons for doing this for some hardware, but most other hardware falls into the same category. As I suggested in the previous posting, get someone to disassemble and document the interface without you seeing the code, then you write the driver. This is called clean-rooming. Or leverage an existing driver by allowing it to run in your kernel environment. I've suggested a kernel environment emulation for SCO, Novell, and NT drivers (all protected mode, most that come on disks with the hardware that requires them). I believe there is a packet driver for which source is not available. I do not believe there is a Linux driver. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 22:24:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02835 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:24:36 -0700 Received: from remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.82.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA02764 ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:22:40 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb/3.3Wb) id OAA13653; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:22:19 +0900 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:22:19 +0900 Message-Id: <199504170522.OAA13653@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: nc@ain.charm.net Cc: todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:56:11 -0400 (EDT). From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article nc@ain.charm.net writes: >> Doesn't Linux have a driver supporting some Xircom hardware? I could have No. There are no Xircom cards in the supported list of Linux PCMCIA driver (2.4.5). >> sworn I have seen those running around. Moreover, I still haven't figured >> out why companies that make *hardware* hate free software? Its not like I heard that the president of Xircom hates free software by philosophycal reasons. They protect device driver from reverse-engineering by encrypting the drivers, and I heard that they won't give us any hardware information without exclusive contracts. If I am wrong, please someone correct it. >> making free software will reduce the purchases or profit margins of their >> hardware, in fact, it will probably increase them. [software doesn't make >> much sense without hardware]. --How could we run FreeBSD without several >> megabytes of RAM? Texas Instruments and/or Micron aren't going to say >> their chips aren't designed to be used with free software. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 22:24:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02849 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:24:58 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA02841 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:24:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01752; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:17:21 GMT Message-Id: <199504162217.WAA01752@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Apr 1995 23:02:08 MDT." <9504170502.AA06646@cs.weber.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:17:18 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > > > Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS > > > in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? > > > > I've read somewhere that Xircom has a very restrictive copyright > > policy. You'll perhaps be outta luck getting documentation. > > If someone is interested in disassembling Xircom's code and documenting > their registers and proper programming procative from the code, then > posting that information, this would allow someone else to write a > driver without problems. > > On the other hand, I have suggested many times that the loadable > kernel modules should have their loader code in the kernel, and > this is one example why: to enable demand loading in a general > case seperate from consideration of the symbol tables to enable > the loading od Novell ODI drivers for servers. These are protected > mode driver that exist for nearly all ethernet and many token ring > and other odd cards. > > That UnixWare does it proves it is possible. Kurt Mahon has hinted > that he might be able to get some of his code for this released. > Do you mean that we can get hold of ODI drivers (binaries) and used them under FreeBSD? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 22:55:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA05103 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:55:19 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA05096 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:55:18 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id WAA21123 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:52:38 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id BAA01687; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 01:53:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 01:53:50 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504170553.BAA01687@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: kern/347: ft0 not detected at boot Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'll try to make this less restrictive, so this flag will no longer be > needed for the ``more common'' tape drives. (It is needed for things > like an Insight tape that require the motor lines to be enabled, and > hence clash with connected diskette drives even during a false probe.) That's fine to force a probe for them. What I'd like to find out from an Insight owner is what unit numbers can be selected on their tape drives (jumpers??). The logic I submitted a while back was to not probe an Insight if there is known to be a real floppy drive using that unit number. If Insight owners can set their unit number to something like 2 (or 1 if they have only one disk) then it won't interfere with disks. Also, any idea how to set a 2Mb/s transfer rate on some of the newer fdc's? (I was told such a chip exists but who knows. :-)) I've added support for 1Mb/s transfers and fifo's when using tape on my system but I'd like to be able to test for 2 as well. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 22:59:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA05537 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:59:34 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA05529 ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:59:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lee cc: jkh@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: installing a new snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Apr 95 16:32:42 PDT." Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:59:32 -0700 Message-ID: <5528.798098372@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What's the best way to install a new snap over and old snap? There is no good way.. :-( You're generally expected to install each snapshot completely from scratch. That is how we do them here.. Running snapshots is not generally recommended for those who have only one machine.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 16 23:40:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA08816 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 23:40:07 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA08810 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 23:40:03 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id CAA02176; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 02:39:59 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 02:39:59 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504170639.CAA02176@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: restoring whole system from tape Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The problem is that neither tar(1) nor dump(8) report these errors, so if one > is merely reading a log collected from stdout(), or watching the screen, one > sees nothing but a flawless archival. The problem is that it is impossible for floppy tape drives to detect soft media errors (CRC errors) while writing. That's why the ecc is so involved and built into the standards. With the ecc you get up to three sectors with CRC errors or 1 CRC failure (a trashed sector that made it by CRC checks) on a tape segment. Any more than that and a segment is destroyed. This is one of the dangers or compressing an entire backup such as 'tar cvzf - / | ft "save me"'. If there is a failed tape segment decompression will fail and the rest of the backup is lost. If the files were compressed individually before being tarred it's possible to continue the restore at the next file. > However, the same test I've used in other Unix environments to verify media > afterwards works great with FreeBSD and ft(1), too. > > # ft | dd of=/dev/null If I have a backup that I positively absolutely cannot have fail (such as nuking my filesystem before upgrading), I use the compare option of tar instead of dd. > If there is interest I can post a very simple script I've written that uses > the archival method of your choice ( tar(1) or dump(8) ), creates a log of the > entire process to disk ( for time-motion-throughput analyses ), and, best of > all, does a dd(1) of the tape afterwards to verify the image. This is what I do as well. An example of doing this would be great. > For what it's worth, I'm not clear on whether such tapes are useless, or > only need to be reformatted. I purchased them preformatted, so they > should have worked. Don't count on it. :-( The "new" DC2120 tapes I've purchased often have lots of defects. That's not a problem so long as the detects on the tape match what is on the tape's bad sector map. If a tape has been preformatted and the bad map recorded and it picks up new errors while sitting on the shelf, the tape needs to be reformatted. The ecc code relies upon having an accurate bad sector map. > I'll post as I learn more on this topic - I would assume that there > are quite a few people whom have chosen the midrange archival solution of a > floppy controller tape drive, rather than a high-end SCSI tape drive. My advice to people is to save your pennies and avoid floppy tape drives if possible. While I think they do get the job done for a small personal system, if you can afford a better solution, floppy tape drives are not worth the lost time and aggravation. (If I could convince my wife that fast and convenient backups are worth the extra $$ I would have a SCSI tape too. :-)) > Pointers to more detailed reference materials with respect to QIC-80 tapes and > their low-level formatting mechanism(s) would be useful. Once I have read them > perhaps I can translate the technojargon into some fairly straightforward > behavioral descriptions. Any information you can dig up on tape formatting would be wonderful! For me this really the biggest grey area with these drives. When I last checked the QIC standards themselves made very little mention of formatting. There are lots of areas that the standards overlook, but this is the biggest. If you're looking for a simple project to start with, it should be fairly straightforward to write a "ftverify" command. The program would basically just read all segments on the tape and then update the badmap in the header segment. It's not formatting, but at least you can make sure your badmap is up to date. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 00:08:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09094 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:08:16 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09088 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:08:06 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA26647; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:07:30 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA19012; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:07:29 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA04159; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 08:20:34 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504170620.IAA04159@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 08:20:33 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Apr 16, 95 05:54:29 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1305 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Richard Toren wrote: > > Giving the following results: > # make > cc -s -O -o rewindstdin rewindstdin.c > # cat rewindstdin.c | (file -; ./rewindstdin ;file -) > standard input: c program text > standard input: empty ... > > ?? why the '< 0' of the return code?? Since you cannot rewind a pipe. Period. That's why i wrote ``i dunno how it could have ever worked for Andreas.'' LSEEK(2) UNIX Programmer's Manual LSEEK(2) NAME lseek - reposition read/write file offset ... Lseek() will fail and the file pointer will remain unchanged if: ... [ESPIPE] Fildes is associated with a pipe, socket, or FIFO. Btw., the usage of for the rewindstdin program is even more bogus. does buffering of its own, which is not sharable across processes. (The current position of an object descriptor however *is* sharable across multiple processes, provided they've got identical copies of the descriptors, by dup(2).) The bad news is that it's almost certain that apsfilter will have to be modified to cope with this. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 00:11:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09158 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:11:56 -0700 Received: from gw.home.vix.com (gw.home.vix.com [192.5.5.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA09152 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:11:53 -0700 Received: by gw.home.vix.com id AA05143; Mon, 17 Apr 95 00:11:36 -0700 Message-Id: <9504170711.AA05143@gw.home.vix.com> X-Btw: vix.com is also gw.home.vix.com and vixie.sf.ca.us To: Edward Wang Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DEC screend in core FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 15 Apr 1995 17:35:14 PDT." <199504160035.RAA14144@edcom.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:11:36 -0700 From: Paul A Vixie Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The patches that need to be applied to ip_input.c are license-free. The new files (ip_screen.*, gw_screen.*, screend/*) are all restricted by a DEC license such that no third party redistribution is permitted. (This is an improvement over the previous license, let me assure you -- and it's also the best I was able to get.) I advise FreeBSD to do as BSD/OS does -- put the patches in, control them with "#ifdef GWSCREEN" and "options GWSCREEN", and include in your release notes something about , which is the public screend's official home. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 00:11:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09164 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:11:58 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09145 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:11:44 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA26743; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:10:41 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA19037; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:10:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA04291; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:03:52 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504170703.JAA04291@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: rewindstdin To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers), andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:03:52 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1570 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think the following should demonstrate a possible trick. It's something like a ``limited tee'', in that it reads a first buffer that is supposed to be sufficient for file(1) (yes, it's heuristic, you never know how many bytes file(1) will need :), forks a subprocess just feeding those bytes to file(1) (with its FD 1 dup'ed to FD 2, so the message will be distinguishable from regular data on FD 1), and continues to act like cat(1) in the parent process. j@uriah 153% cat mbox.j | ./foo | dd of=/dev/null standard input: mail text 358+1 records in 358+1 records out 183770 bytes transferred in 1 secs (183770 bytes/sec) j@uriah 154% cat /kernel | ./foo | dd of=/dev/null standard input: demand paged executable 1750+1 records in 1750+1 records out 896446 bytes transferred in 1 secs (896446 bytes/sec) I wrote it in Perl since this was easier for experimenting, but i think the idea is clear enough and as easy to implement in C, too. #!/usr/bin/perl read(STDIN, $buf, 4096) || die "Can't even read a single byte from stdin\n"; if(fork) { # XXX should handle -1 as "cannot fork" $SIG{'PIPE'} = 'exit'; # exit cleanly if file(1) closes the pipe open(STDOUT, ">&STDERR"); # a dup(2) looks a bit strange in perl, eh' :) open(FILE, "|file -"); print(FILE $buf); exit(0); } else { do { print $buf; } while(read(STDIN, $buf, 4096)); } exit(0); sub exit {exit(0);} -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 00:56:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10348 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:56:02 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA10332 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:55:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA02614; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:41:49 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504171841.NAA02614@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:41:48 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504170522.OAA13653@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> from "HOSOKAWA Tatsumi" at Apr 17, 95 02:22:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 762 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I heard that the president of Xircom hates free software by > philosophycal reasons. They protect device driver from > reverse-engineering by encrypting the drivers, and I heard that they ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ But how ? IMO the Unix driver is an object file that can't be encrypted itself and probably can't contain the encrypted part decryptable by xxinit(). > won't give us any hardware information without exclusive contracts. Do they have a driver for SCO ? Decompiling of SCO drivers isn't very difficult because SCO's optimizer is bad (and often isn't used at all) and disassembler is included in the Development System. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 00:56:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10365 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:56:19 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA10352 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:56:10 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id CAA02183; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 02:53:09 -0400 From: "House of Debuggin'" Message-Id: <199504170653.CAA02183@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 02:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504170502.AA06646@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 16, 95 11:02:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 5281 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk They say this Terry Lambert person was kidding when he wrote: > > > Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS > > > in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? > > > > I've read somewhere that Xircom has a very restrictive copyright > > policy. You'll perhaps be outta luck getting documentation. > > If someone is interested in disassembling Xircom's code and documenting > their registers and proper programming procative from the code, then > posting that information, this would allow someone else to write a > driver without problems. Somehow this reminds me of an old Steve Martin routine. ("Yes, if you follow these two simple little steps, you can have a million dollars and *never* pay taxes. First, get a million dollars. Second...") > On the other hand, I have suggested many times that the loadable > kernel modules should have their loader code in the kernel, and > this is one example why: to enable demand loading in a general > case seperate from consideration of the symbol tables to enable > the loading od Novell ODI drivers for servers. These are protected > mode driver that exist for nearly all ethernet and many token ring > and other odd cards. Ah, now you've done it! Novell ODI drivers be damned: you've brought up the subject of loadable kernel modules right when I'm in the middle of hacking on kern_lkm.c! :) I've noticed that there are now loadable modules for PPP, SLIP and the tunnel driver. I've further noticed that none of these drivers play by the rules: to use them, you modload them with an entry point of pppattach (or slattach, or tunattach), which can cause major havoc since pppattach() has no LKM-specific modifications in it at all. This is to say that no 'private' section is created when the module is loaded. This leads to a panic the moment someone runs modstat and the kernel tries to look for private.lkm_any->lkm_name, which doesn't exist. The major problem I'm having is that I can't find a way to detect such bastardized modules prior to actually calling their entry points. Basically, I've figured out that if private.lkm_any == NULL after the entry call has happened, the module is screwey, and special steps must be taken (I create a dummy lkm_any structure to pacify modstat and mark the module type as LM_UNKNOWN (I check for LM_UNKNOWN later if modunload is called and refuse to unload the module becasuse doing so without crashing the system is next to impossible)). The trouble is that I need to prevent the user from loading the same rogue module twice (with if_ppp_mod.o, loading twice yields two ppp0's and two ppp1's, which is just too damn strange). But by the time I know that I have a bad module, it's too late to do anything about it. To wit: - user loads a module (modload -e pppattach if_ppp_mod.o) - LKM_READY comes up, and we go to call the entry function - call to entry returns with private.lkm_any == NULL -- module is bogus! - fix up the lkm_any structure to avoid modstat/modunload panic - see if we already have a module loaded with the same name - no duplicates: we can continue - user is a twit; loads module again - LKM_READY comes up, go call entry again - private.lkm_any == NULL again -- another bogus module! - fix up the lkm_any structure to avoid modstat/modunload panic - see if we already have a module loaded with the same name - it's a duplicate! we have to unload it! - [Here is where we are hosed: assuming this is the PPP module, calling the entry point of the module has already caused pppattach() to wire in a second set of PPP devices. Now that this has happened, there's no way to cleanly un-wire them again because the PPP module has no unload() function.] - attempt to remove the module: lkmunreserve() its pages - at some point, the kernel goes looking for the now-defunct duplicate PPP module and whammo! we're toast. It's sort of a 'chicken and the egg' problem: I have to detect the bad module and discard it before I call its entry point, but I have to call its entry point before I can detect and discard it. Now, I know what you're probably going to say: fix the stupid modules so they can properly un-install themselves. True, that would fix these particular modules, but it won't squash the bugs in the kernel's LKM code that lead to the panic. So, o master of loadable modules: is there a way I can spot these buggers before digging myself into a hole, or am I SOL? > That UnixWare does it proves it is possible. Kurt Mahon has hinted > that he might be able to get some of his code for this released. *sigh* > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Tue Mar 14 11:11:25 EST 1995 ~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 00:57:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10391 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:57:50 -0700 Received: from remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.82.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA10385 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:57:46 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb/3.3Wb) id QAA14598; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:55:42 +0900 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:55:42 +0900 Message-Id: <199504170755.QAA14598@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:41:48 -0500 (GMT-0500). <199504171841.NAA02614@hq.icb.chel.su> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199504171841.NAA02614@hq.icb.chel.su> babkin@hq.icb.chel.su writes: >> But how ? IMO the Unix driver is an object file that can't be encrypted >> itself and probably can't contain the encrypted part decryptable >> by xxinit(). Of course, it's DOS driver. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 00:57:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10400 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:57:53 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA10384 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:57:45 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27862; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:56:16 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA19142; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:56:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA04550; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:14:40 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504170714.JAA04550@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: ache@astral.msk.su (Andrey A. Chernov Black Mage) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:14:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com, wwanders@sci.kun.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" at Apr 17, 95 02:30:10 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 434 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage wrote: > >#include > > >main() > >{ > > rewind(stdin); > > return(0); > >} > > Yet one: > fpurge(stdin); Won't help. You didn't notice the ``main()'' above? Boy, he tries to rewind a pipe from a separate _process_! This is impossible. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 01:45:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA12104 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 01:45:51 -0700 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12097 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 01:45:48 -0700 Received: from orion ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00457 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 10:32:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199504161732.KAA00457@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA038433385; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 13:29:45 -0400 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: 950412 snap install failure To: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 13:29:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 937 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Results of 950412 snap look like the 0322 here. After a full reformat of the disk drive I once got the 0322 to boot with some old 1.x disklabel on the drives... (before reformat) (HP 308 mb on adaptec 1542 on Micronics Baby Gemini 486dx motherboard... 8mb of memory with or without any cache. Fatal trap 12: Page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x716 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8: 0xf01c361f code segment= base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume iopl=0 current process = 0() interrupt mask= net tty bio panic: page fault ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2369 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 01:57:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA12456 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 01:57:41 -0700 Received: from remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.82.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12450 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 01:57:31 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb/3.3Wb) id RAA15294; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:57:28 +0900 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:57:28 +0900 Message-Id: <199504170857.RAA15294@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FDDI driver for FreeBSD From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I remember that there is a DEC PCI-FDDI interface driver on FreeBSD, but I can't find it in SNAP-950322 source tree. Does anyone tell me the status of this driver? Thanks. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 03:56:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA20306 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 03:56:16 -0700 Received: from vax.cs.pitt.edu (vax.cs.pitt.edu [136.142.79.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA20298 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 03:56:13 -0700 From: durham@w2xo.pgh.pa.us Received: by vax.cs.pitt.edu (8.6.10/1.14) for hackers@freebsd.org; id GAA27545; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 06:36:18 -0400 Received: by w2xo.pgh.pa.us (8.6.8/1.34) id WAA22660; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:26:47 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:26:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199504170226.WAA22660@w2xo.pgh.pa.us> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: include files in 0322-SNAP Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just started reading this group, so forgive me if this has been explained ad infinitum... but... What's with the include files in 0322-SNAP? The set with the source tree is mostly correct, but missing the "static" keyword in ttydefaults.c for ttydefchars, which causes a compile problem. Is the idea just to copy (with this exception) all of /usr/src/sys/include and include/sys to usr include? Or what is the correct thing to do? I also am having the problem with loadable kernel modules. The kernel that came with the binary distribution works OK with lkm stuff, but the new kernel does not. The original was 2.0, the newly compiled is 2.1, I noticed. There is also something about matcd. It causes the 2.0 kernel to have problems at boot time, and you *can't* disable it with -c. The disable command fails on matcd. I notice that matcd doesn't exist in the 2.1 sources. Is this coming back? I have one of the "Reveal" CD-ROMS from Egghead , which should be similar, and I'd like to see if I can munge a driver to talk to it... I'd also like to work on a driver for ham radio packet radio stuff, but I'm not sure whether the 0322-SNAP is a good version to use as a starting point. It appears that 0412-SNAP is *not* where to start..? Hope all this hasn't been covered before.. Thanks, Jim Durham From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 07:05:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA29525 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 07:05:12 -0700 Received: from outer.ceh.servtech.com (marcus@outer.ceh.servtech.com [204.181.5.20]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29505 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 07:05:00 -0700 Received: (from marcus@localhost) by outer.ceh.servtech.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA18457 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:10:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:10:21 -0400 From: Marcus Schwartz Message-Id: <199504171410.KAA18457@outer.ceh.servtech.com> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: 3c589 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone have the 3c589 working with 0412-SNAP? If so i could use some help. > same here. I have been lowered to using some freeware NFS and X software under *gulp* DOS. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 07:26:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA00596 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 07:26:22 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA00578 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 07:26:06 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA13078; Mon, 17 Apr 95 07:23:19 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA03715; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:22:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA27787; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:25:14 GMT Message-Id: <199504171025.KAA27787@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FDDI driver for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:57:28 +0900." <199504170857.RAA15294@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:25:09 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi! > > I remember that there is a DEC PCI-FDDI interface driver on FreeBSD, > but I can't find it in SNAP-950322 source tree. Does anyone tell me > the status of this driver? There is a man page for the device (man fpa or man fea). It's in sys/pci (if_pdq.c and pdq.c). You need to pick up if_pdq.c and pdq.c from -current since I have since made a few important bug fixes. The driver is fully functional (in fact I switched my FreeBSD system over to the building FDDI so that I don't even use Ethernet anymore). I was doing some testing last Friday between a DECpc XL 590 and an AlphaStation 400 4/233. Using ttcp I could get over 10MB/s transmit throughput over TCP and 12.3MB/s over UDP. Cheers, Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com U*X Networking WWW URL: http://ftp.dec.com/%7Ethomas/ Digital Equipment Corporation Disclaimer: This message reflects my Littleton, MA own warped views, etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 09:28:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA06687 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:28:08 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA06676 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:28:06 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08143; Mon, 17 Apr 95 10:21:06 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504171621.AA08143@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 95 10:21:05 MDT Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504162217.WAA01752@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Apr 16, 95 10:17:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On the other hand, I have suggested many times that the loadable > > kernel modules should have their loader code in the kernel, and > > this is one example why: to enable demand loading in a general > > case seperate from consideration of the symbol tables to enable > > the loading od Novell ODI drivers for servers. These are protected > > mode driver that exist for nearly all ethernet and many token ring > > and other odd cards. > > > > That UnixWare does it proves it is possible. Kurt Mahon has hinted > > that he might be able to get some of his code for this released. > > Do you mean that we can get hold of ODI drivers (binaries) and used them > under FreeBSD? Yes, if: 1) They could be loaded into kernel memory. 2) Their external symbols are appropriately resolved. Both of these require knowledge of the binary file format. Kurt Mahon is the engineer who wrote the code for UnixWare. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 09:53:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA07693 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:53:14 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA07687 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:53:11 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08223; Mon, 17 Apr 95 10:46:34 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504171646.AA08223@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (House of Debuggin) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 95 10:46:34 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504170653.CAA02183@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "House of Debuggin" at Apr 17, 95 02:53:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS > > > > in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? > > > > > > I've read somewhere that Xircom has a very restrictive copyright > > > policy. You'll perhaps be outta luck getting documentation. > > > > If someone is interested in disassembling Xircom's code and documenting > > their registers and proper programming procative from the code, then > > posting that information, this would allow someone else to write a > > driver without problems. > > Somehow this reminds me of an old Steve Martin routine. ("Yes, if you > follow these two simple little steps, you can have a million dollars > and *never* pay taxes. First, get a million dollars. Second...") No, it's more like "clean room coding is possible, but free software projects typically do not engage in the practice because it requires two or more people to work together on something". 8-). One could make the same argument about WINE engineering clean-rooming code out of Windows itself instead of coming up with half soloutions. The ability to clean room is relative to the energy one is willing to expend. With people like Xircom, Adaptec, Diamond, and multiport board vendors hiding their interfaces this way, it's clear that the only thing this really does is create an artificial barrier to entry for someone who wants to duplicate the hardware, and that barrier is only as high as the willingness to expend the effort to openly reverse engineer their code without the vendors cooperation. Simple problem, obvious soloution. [ ... on to loadable modules ... ] > I've noticed that there are now loadable modules for PPP, SLIP and > the tunnel driver. I've further noticed that none of these drivers > play by the rules: to use them, you modload them with an entry point > of pppattach (or slattach, or tunattach), which can cause major > havoc since pppattach() has no LKM-specific modifications in it > at all. This is to say that no 'private' section is created when > the module is loaded. This leads to a panic the moment someone > runs modstat and the kernel tries to look for private.lkm_any->lkm_name, > which doesn't exist. > > The major problem I'm having is that I can't find a way to detect such > bastardized modules prior to actually calling their entry points. > Basically, I've figured out that if private.lkm_any == NULL after > the entry call has happened, the module is screwey, and special steps > must be taken (I create a dummy lkm_any structure to pacify modstat > and mark the module type as LM_UNKNOWN (I check for LM_UNKNOWN later if > modunload is called and refuse to unload the module becasuse doing > so without crashing the system is next to impossible)). This is one of the reasons I keep suggesting that the symbol resoloution ought to be done in the kernel instead of outside it in the ld program. > The trouble is that I need to prevent the user from loading the same > rogue module twice (with if_ppp_mod.o, loading twice yields two ppp0's > and two ppp1's, which is just too damn strange). But by the time > I know that I have a bad module, it's too late to do anything about it. This is not the problem. The problem is not preventing a module that does not register itself from being loaded twice. The problem is that you are not immediately unloading that module with loud complaints about it having not registered itself. > - user loads a module (modload -e pppattach if_ppp_mod.o) > - LKM_READY comes up, and we go to call the entry function > - call to entry returns with private.lkm_any == NULL -- module is bogus! FORCE UNLOAD OF MODULE WITH ERROR MESSAGE "module has no identification". > - fix up the lkm_any structure to avoid modstat/modunload panic > - see if we already have a module loaded with the same name > - no duplicates: we can continue > - user is a twit; loads module again FORCE UNLOAD OF MODULE WITH ERROR MESSAGE "module has no identification". > - LKM_READY comes up, go call entry again > - private.lkm_any == NULL again -- another bogus module! > - fix up the lkm_any structure to avoid modstat/modunload panic > - see if we already have a module loaded with the same name > - it's a duplicate! we have to unload it! > - [Here is where we are hosed: assuming this is the PPP module, calling > the entry point of the module has already caused pppattach() to wire > in a second set of PPP devices. Now that this has happened, there's > no way to cleanly un-wire them again because the PPP module has no > unload() function.] > - attempt to remove the module: lkmunreserve() its pages NO SUCH MODULE (it wasn't permitted to load). > - at some point, the kernel goes looking for the now-defunct duplicate > PPP module and whammo! we're toast. > > It's sort of a 'chicken and the egg' problem: I have to detect the bad > module and discard it before I call its entry point, but I have to > call its entry point before I can detect and discard it. Assuming relocation in the kernel, there are two options. The first is to allow multiple symbols in the module to be imported by the kernel. The current limitation on this is on the basis of the a.out format that the module is stored in allowing only a single symbol to be resolved. The second approach would be to ammend the routines available to the module from the single multiplexed entry point to include a seperate registration entry point from the "attach" entry point so you can insert a validation step into the load/register-init, changing it into load/register/validate/init. > Now, I know what you're probably going to say: fix the stupid modules > so they can properly un-install themselves. True, that would fix these > particular modules, but it won't squash the bugs in the kernel's LKM code > that lead to the panic. No; this is not a soloution, simply because it is possible to have modules that you can never unload. Consider a console driver or a disk controller driver that replaces a more primitive version (a fallback version) of the code that was only sufficient to get the machine to the point it could boot. For instance, a SCSI driver that gets loaded to replace a VM86() BIOS call based driver. It is likely that the new driver would establish state in common with the controller card from which the priginal state is impossible to recover. Consider the microcode download to Adaptec SCSI controllers. > So, o master of loadable modules: is there a way I can spot these > buggers before digging myself into a hole, or am I SOL? Changing the load mechanism itsel is the only way -- I think Garrett (who has hacked on that code more recently than me, I assure you) would agree, although I don't know if he still disagrees with the idea of putting the loader in the kernel itself or not. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 10:03:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA08117 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:03:04 -0700 Received: from nanbu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (nanbu-fddi.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.82.19]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA08111 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:03:02 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by nanbu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id CAA20652; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:02:42 +0900 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:02:42 +0900 Message-Id: <199504171702.CAA20652@nanbu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: marcus@outer.ceh.servtech.com Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: 3c589 In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:10:21 -0400. <199504171410.KAA18457@outer.ceh.servtech.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk <199504171410.KAA18457@outer.ceh.servtech.com>$B$N5-;v$K$*$$$F(B marcus@outer.ceh.servtech.com$B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?!#(B >> > >> > Anyone have the 3c589 working with 0412-SNAP? If so i could use some help. >> > >> >> >> same here. I have been lowered to using some freeware NFS and X software >> under *gulp* DOS. Hmm? What's the problem with you? I'm using 3c589 with 0322-SNAP and -current if_zp.c. I also wrote a quick-hack patch for dummy-probe and delayed-attach on if_ze and if_zp yesterday. You don't have to insert these cards on bootstrap. You can attach them later. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 10:25:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA09037 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:25:46 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA09023 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:25:37 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA25456 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:29:43 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:29:43 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504171729.LAA25456@trout.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: PLEASE HELP THIS GUY Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: helena.MT.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!johnh From: johnh@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (John Heidemann) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: PS/2 mouse support under 950412-SNAP ... how? Date: 15 Apr 1995 01:23:47 GMT Organization: University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3mn773$i0f@saba.info.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: nottingham.cs.ucla.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0.b3.0 #11 (NOV) How do you add PS/2 mouse support to FreeBSD-950412-SNAP? - The web page has an entry, but it's blank. - The FAQ says look at /sys/doc/options.doc, but there is no such document included as part of 950412-SNAP. - There is an options.doc in ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/docs, but it doesn't say anything about the psm device. Any suggestions? -John Heidemann UCLA Ficus Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 10:43:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA10058 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:43:58 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10050 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:43:54 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA04134; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:43:09 +0800 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:43:09 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Ian Wynne cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 16 Apr 1995, Ian Wynne wrote: > > I haven't posted this to any of the news groups because I thought it would > only serve as flame bait. Why, were you thinking of posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy? ;-) Go ahead and post about your experiences in a *BSD or FreeBSD group, just as a FYI. > I use FreeBSD at home and I haven't been able to make it crash by > loading it up.I can untar something from tape, gunzip something and > compile something else all the same time, it slows but doesn't stop. The highest load I've placed on my FreeBSD box is a "make -j 6" of the Angband sources (6 concurrent gcc's), six Quicktimes of "Star Trek: Voyager" episode previews playing at once, two FTP's of the complete FreeBSD sources as one giant tarball to another FreeBSD machine on the local net (one getting, one putting). I ran an iozone just to make sure the disk was really busy, and finally xlocked my screen with a 1000-body "swarm" animation. Then I went for dinner. :) Two hours later, Angband was still compiling and nothing had fallen over. Rest assured your FreeBSD box can take a really heavy beating and continue along without tripping over its shoelaces (where's that new daemon picture?) :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 10:44:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA10089 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:44:25 -0700 Received: from math.berkeley.edu (math.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.183.94]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10083 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:44:24 -0700 Received: from genera.HIP.Berkeley.EDU by math.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33(math)Ow.1) id KAA22464; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:44:18 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:44:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199504171744.KAA22464@math.berkeley.edu> X-Sender: ketchers@math.berkeley.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: ketchers@math.berkeley.edu (Richard Ketchersid) Subject: geometry problem Cc: ketchers@math.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to install FreeBSD-2.0 on an IBM Aptiva. This machine has the following geometry cyl:524 hd:32 sec:63, but the controller reports (1048,16,63). When I use the boot disk somewhere in the middle of its screen I see: wd0:can't handel 32 heads from partition table(controller value 16 restored) By the way the controller is `eide'?--Now ignoring this I proceed. I set up partitions using fdisk when I try to `write' I get wd0:can't handel 32 heads from partition table(controller value 16 restored) writelable:MSP with no BSD part O.K.-Well I'll just change the geometry using (G)eometry-seems to work. Now I write with no problem. In fact I make it through the label screen and proceed without problem.-Time to reboot. First I reboot to DOS and use pfdisk to see what I've done. It shows that my new section has "#...phys=(1048,15,63) should be phys=(524,31,63)" This doesn't seem good. But I reboot anyway. It again seems to work. Then at the end of the boot we have: ?:can't find init panic:no init Then it reboots my computer in 15 seconds.-I'm at a loss. I think all these problems are do to the confusion about the number of heads. I have no idea how to get the setup to make wd0 handle 32 heads-it seems like the BIOS should overrule the controller.(I did contact IBM and they said that this conflict between controller and BIOS is common-I believe the guy he was really into Linux and wanted to try out FreeBSD too. He suggested that I wipe my hard drive and make sure that BSD is the first patition?) I only have 524M so it seems that the boot area should be falling in the correct place-I thought I would try to get some advice from tou before wiping my hard drive again-it is a pain. ---My question ends here below is just one last probably irrelevant detail--- If I don't change my geometry as I mentioned above and proceed I get the following message which repeats and can only be stopped by turning off the power: wd0f:wdstart:timeout waiting to give command writing fsbn 64 of 64-79 (wd0 bn 382240;cn 189 tn 19 sn 19)wd0:statud 0 error 1 Sorry for the length, but thanks for the help! Richard Ketchersid ketchers@math.berkeley.edu 3211 Brunell Oakland CA 94602 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 10:48:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA10272 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:48:15 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10257 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:48:09 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA04147; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:48:21 +0800 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:48:21 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FDDI driver for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199504171025.KAA27787@whydos.lkg.dec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 1995, Matt Thomas wrote: > > I was doing some testing last Friday between a DECpc XL 590 and an > AlphaStation 400 4/233. Using ttcp I could get over 10MB/s transmit > throughput over TCP and 12.3MB/s over UDP. One word: *WOW* :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 11:01:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA11214 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:01:53 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA11200 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:01:43 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA05361; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:01:47 +0800 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:01:45 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: installing a new snap In-Reply-To: <5528.798098372@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 16 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > There is no good way.. :-( You're generally expected to install each > snapshot completely from scratch. That is how we do them here.. Hrmmm... this is how I've been doing it for the past three snapshots. 1. Bring the machine down into single user 2. Make a backup of /etc. 3. Mount the local mirror or FTP the bin.* files to /tmp. 4. chflag /kernel and appropriate files in /usr/lib. 5. cat /tmp/bin.* | tar -zxvvp --unlink -f - 6. Compile and install a new kernel 7. Check out /etc, merge old /etc. 8. Reboot. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 11:04:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA11355 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:04:08 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA11347 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:04:06 -0700 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id OAA00508 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 14:17:31 -0700 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA25321; Tue, 11 Apr 95 23:17:20 +0100 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 95 23:17:20 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9504112217.AA25321@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: (jmb@kryten.atinc.com) Subject: Re: [Q] read decvmsbackup format X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan M Bresler writes: > off topic for the list, but > does anyone have a FreeBSD tool or pointer to code to read dec vms backup > format 9 track tapes? here is an example of the header on the tape > (retrieved with dd) There is program called 'vmsbackup' which can read vms backup tapes. Ask archie for a site. I have not tried it on FreeBSD though. Jean-Marc. ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Observatoire de Besancon | F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 11:08:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA11690 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:08:39 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA11677 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:08:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00741; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:00:14 GMT Message-Id: <199504171100.LAA00741@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: Matt Thomas cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FDDI driver for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:25:09 GMT." <199504171025.KAA27787@whydos.lkg.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:00:12 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I was doing some testing last Friday between a DECpc XL 590 and an > AlphaStation 400 4/233. Using ttcp I could get over 10MB/s transmit > throughput over TCP and 12.3MB/s over UDP. > Fantastic!! Curious, do you have a P90 and what are the ttcp numbers for two AlphaStation 400 4/233 ? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 12:52:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA18278 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 12:52:45 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18267 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 12:52:40 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA02953; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:49:45 -0400 From: "House of Debuggin'" Message-Id: <199504171849.OAA02953@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504171646.AA08223@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 17, 95 10:46:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4344 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk They say this Terry Lambert person was kidding when he wrote: > > Somehow this reminds me of an old Steve Martin routine. ("Yes, if you > > follow these two simple little steps, you can have a million dollars > > and *never* pay taxes. First, get a million dollars. Second...") > > No, it's more like "clean room coding is possible, but free software > projects typically do not engage in the practice because it requires > two or more people to work together on something". 8-). Yeah, well... It's not like I wouldn't mind working together with someone, but there don't seem to be that many FreeBSD fans here at Columbia. (There are several Linux fans though, and I take more than my fair share of abuse from them.) > > [ ... on to loadable modules ... ] > > > - user loads a module (modload -e pppattach if_ppp_mod.o) > > - LKM_READY comes up, and we go to call the entry function > > - call to entry returns with private.lkm_any == NULL -- module is bogus! > > FORCE UNLOAD OF MODULE WITH ERROR MESSAGE "module has no identification". Well, no, see, that's just it: by the time I get to this point (entry has been called) I *can't* force an unload of the module without panicking the system. The module has already wired itself in: from here on, I'm dead meat. > > > > It's sort of a 'chicken and the egg' problem: I have to detect the bad > > module and discard it before I call its entry point, but I have to > > call its entry point before I can detect and discard it. > > Assuming relocation in the kernel, there are two options. The first > is to allow multiple symbols in the module to be imported by the kernel. > The current limitation on this is on the basis of the a.out format that > the module is stored in allowing only a single symbol to be resolved. Uh, yeah... right. > The second approach would be to ammend the routines available to the > module from the single multiplexed entry point to include a seperate > registration entry point from the "attach" entry point so you can > insert a validation step into the load/register-init, changing it into > load/register/validate/init. This sounds like something I could pull off. It occurs to me that it might be possible to perform validation in the LKM_RESERVE stage, but I need to come up with a proper validation method. One of the things that gets passed to the kernel in the reserv structure is the name of the linked module (modout -- the name of the module without the .o extension). Right now, the kernel does nothing with this name. What I want to do is use it as an identifier and check that a module with the same name doesn't already exist before passing control to the entry point. Unfortunately this won't offer any protection if the user renames the module. A checksum would work much better, but I haven't figured out a way to compute the checksum yet. I think this would be a good idea in general: the lkmexists() function checks for pre-existing modules simply by comparing names, and as such it can easily be fooled: I could make a duplicate of an existing module and load it using a different name and lkmexists() would never know the difference. Even though you and I both know better than to attempt something like this, the kernel has to be smart enough to protect itself from such abuse. > Changing the load mechanism itsel is the only way -- I think Garrett (who > has hacked on that code more recently than me, I assure you) would agree, > although I don't know if he still disagrees with the idea of putting the > loader in the kernel itself or not. 8-). I think it should also be smart enough to protect itself from this kind of abuse too. :) > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1: "We'll kick your operating system's ass!" ~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 13:12:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA19273 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:12:03 -0700 Received: from cs.pdx.edu (root@cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.183]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19263 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:11:59 -0700 Received: from sirius.cs.pdx.edu (root@sirius.cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.199]) by cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-12/23/94-P) with ESMTP id NAA09925; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:11:46 -0700 for Received: from localhost (jrb@localhost.cs.pdx.edu [127.0.0.1]) by sirius.cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-9/18/94-C) with ESMTP id NAA14591; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:10:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199504172010.NAA14591@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:21:05 MDT." <9504171621.AA08143@cs.weber.edu> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:10:29 -0700 From: James Binkley Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is extremely important if possible. E.g., a lot of current radio lan hardware is only going to have the following driver-types... .odi-client .odi-server .ndis .pkt if you are lucky .maybe unixware .just maybe sco A few years ago I did some work for Intel vis-a-vis NCR wavelan. In general they weren't about to release their src or do anything other than ODI, etc. Pretty typical for esoteric lan cards in the pc market. regards, Jim Binkley jrb@cs.pdx.edu Your message <9504171621.AA08143@cs.weber.edu>: >> > On the other hand, I have suggested many times that the loadable >> > kernel modules should have their loader code in the kernel, and >> > this is one example why: to enable demand loading in a general >> > case seperate from consideration of the symbol tables to enable >> > the loading od Novell ODI drivers for servers. These are protected >> > mode driver that exist for nearly all ethernet and many token ring >> > and other odd cards. >> > >> > That UnixWare does it proves it is possible. Kurt Mahon has hinted >> > that he might be able to get some of his code for this released. >> >> Do you mean that we can get hold of ODI drivers (binaries) and used them >> under FreeBSD? > >Yes, if: > >1) They could be loaded into kernel memory. > >2) Their external symbols are appropriately resolved. > >Both of these require knowledge of the binary file format. > >Kurt Mahon is the engineer who wrote the code for UnixWare. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 13:21:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA19778 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:21:05 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19770 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:21:03 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA29437; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:21:00 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504172021.NAA29437@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: PS/2 mouse support under 950412-SNAP ... how? To: johnh@FICUS.CS.UCLA.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504172009.AA25873@nottingham.cs.ucla.edu> from "John Heidemann" at Apr 17, 95 01:09:21 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 685 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:58:05 PDT, Julian Elischer wrote: > >[Here's how to get a psm device configured in a FreeBSD kernel.] > > Thanks for your help. > I successfully reconfigured my kernel with PS/2 mouse support. > > -John now of course the big question WE all want to know, (having seen that you have at least one FreeBSD machine there) is will there be any flow-over from ficus work into FreeBSD... (i.e. will we be able to get fixes for freeBSD from the ficus project when ficus changes or finds bugs? :) (we actually discussed this at the last FreeBSD core team get-together last week) excuse my ignorance but is Jan-Simon Pendry part of your group? julian > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 13:24:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA19950 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:24:35 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19939 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:24:27 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA09962; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:21:32 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504172021.NAA09962@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: jrb@cs.pdx.edu (James Binkley) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504172010.NAA14591@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> from "James Binkley" at Apr 17, 95 01:10:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2021 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Him Jim! > This is extremely important if possible. E.g., a lot of current > radio lan hardware is only going to have the following driver-types... > .odi-client > .odi-server > .ndis > .pkt if you are lucky > .maybe unixware > .just maybe sco > A few years ago I did some work for Intel vis-a-vis NCR wavelan. > In general they weren't about to release their src or do anything > other than ODI, etc. Pretty typical for esoteric lan cards in > the pc market. There is source code for the NCR wavelan card in Mach. Though most vendors do what you state, your sited example was a bad one :-(. > regards, > Jim Binkley > jrb@cs.pdx.edu > Your message <9504171621.AA08143@cs.weber.edu>: > >> > On the other hand, I have suggested many times that the loadable > >> > kernel modules should have their loader code in the kernel, and > >> > this is one example why: to enable demand loading in a general > >> > case seperate from consideration of the symbol tables to enable > >> > the loading od Novell ODI drivers for servers. These are protected > >> > mode driver that exist for nearly all ethernet and many token ring > >> > and other odd cards. > >> > > >> > That UnixWare does it proves it is possible. Kurt Mahon has hinted > >> > that he might be able to get some of his code for this released. > >> > >> Do you mean that we can get hold of ODI drivers (binaries) and used them > >> under FreeBSD? > > > >Yes, if: > > > >1) They could be loaded into kernel memory. > > > >2) Their external symbols are appropriately resolved. > > > >Both of these require knowledge of the binary file format. > > > >Kurt Mahon is the engineer who wrote the code for UnixWare. > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@cs.weber.edu > >--- > >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > >or previous employers. > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 13:58:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA22312 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:58:19 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA22304 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:58:16 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA29524 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:58:16 -0700 Received: from nottingham.cs.ucla.edu (Nottingham.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.192.69]) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA29513 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:54:28 -0700 Received: from LocalHost.cs.ucla.edu by nottingham.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 4.1/3.19ficus2) id AA27052; Mon, 17 Apr 95 13:54:26 PDT Message-Id: <9504172054.AA27052@nottingham.cs.ucla.edu> X-Url: To: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: PS/2 mouse support under 950412-SNAP ... how? In-Reply-To: <199504172021.NAA29437@ref.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:54:24 -0700 From: John Heidemann Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:21:00 PDT, Julian Elischer wrote: >now of course the big question WE all want to know, >(having seen that you have at least one FreeBSD machine there) >is will there be any flow-over from ficus work into FreeBSD... >(i.e. will we be able to get fixes for freeBSD from the ficus project >when ficus changes or finds bugs? :) > >(we actually discussed this at the last FreeBSD core team get-together >last week) First, I can't speak for the Ficus project as a whole. That said, we've currently bought 15 x86 portables to do distributed computing research. We're looking at OSes to run on them, and we're considering Solaris/x86, BSD/OS, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and Linux (in no particular order). There are a *lot* of trade-offs among all of these OSes, so it's not at all clear which one we'll end up with. Several people are already running Linux and Solaris/x86. Whatever operating system we go with, if we find and fix bugs, and we can reach the maintainers, we'll be happy to do so. Our primary goal is to have something stable to do our research, though, since our funding agent probably won't be happy if we spend our time fixing OS bugs rather than doing research. Finally, I'm trying hard to graduate this summer, so I won't be able to do a lot of hacking personally any time soon. What I really want right now is something that runs TeX and idraw so I can finish writing my dissertation. >excuse my ignorance but is Jan-Simon Pendry part of your group? Jan-Simon Pendry has never been part of the Ficus project. The 4.4BSD work he was directly with Kirk. Besides, he's over in England hacking somewhere while we're all here in sunny southern California. -John From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 14:01:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA22503 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:01:39 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA22350 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:59:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA06177; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:52:00 +0200 Message-Id: <199504171352.PAA06177@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kirk McKusick E-mail address In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Apr 1995 15:09:49 +0200." <199504141309.PAA22597@blaise.ibp.fr> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:51:59 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've posted something about the article in the french news hierarchy. > I'll probably write 'em a letter. Maybe if you copy that letter to a couple of competitor magazines, they'll make a small feature about what a bunch of jerks the first magazine is :-) Nothing like a bit of peer pressure :-) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 14:06:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA22767 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:06:14 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA22661 ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:03:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA06080; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:24:14 +0200 Message-Id: <199504171324.PAA06080@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Critically short of space on wcarchive! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Apr 1995 01:13:17 +0200." <199504122313.QAA21883@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:24:12 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > incoming needs a serious spring-cleaning. As I recall we have some kind of `you cant ls the dir, but you can fetch the files' mechanism, (I can't look now, I'm off line, + my access to freefall goes through about 15 nodes, & is s_l_o_w) As most folk can't check what's there, it's not suprising it fills up, getting rid of old versions could be a pain to depositors, as it requires they keep note of exact names of old stuff they put up. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 14:07:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA22794 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:07:11 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA22731 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:05:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA06105; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:32:34 +0200 Message-Id: <199504171332.PAA06105@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: pvinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: is LINT going to change much before 2.1? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Apr 1995 05:41:14 +0200." <199504130341.UAA23891@ix3.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:32:33 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ref. --- I'm writing the doc on configuring and rebuilding the kernel and am wondering how much is LINT going to change before 2.1? I just wanted to know how much is it expected to change? ---- I have placed patches on freefall:~jhs/FIXES.tgz (or something like) so that one can do cd /usr/src/sys ; make or cd /usr/src/sys ; make CONFIG=MY_PREFERENCE & it will config & make a kernel (by default for `hostname` as preference) I have not commited any component of it yet ('cos I'm nervous of CVS & want to reread the cvs docs first) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 15:52:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA28879 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:52:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA28749 ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:50:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: nc@ain.charm.net, todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Apr 95 14:22:19 +0900." <199504170522.OAA13653@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 15:50:38 -0700 Message-ID: <28748.798159038@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No. There are no Xircom cards in the supported list of Linux PCMCIA > driver (2.4.5). Ok, here's my understanding of it: The Xircom cards require a download before they'll function, and this download code is available if you sign an NDA and jump through several other hoops. BSDI has done this, and BSD/OS does support the Xircom though I have also been informed that: 1. The driver was a royal pain-in-the-butt to write. 2. We free software folks REALLY don't even want to see the document that Xircom makes you sign to get ahold of the downloadable code. It's pretty scary. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 16:06:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA29872 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:06:53 -0700 Received: from edcom.com (edcom.com [140.174.173.185]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29866 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:06:51 -0700 Received: (from edward@localhost) by edcom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA20836; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:06:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:06:33 -0700 From: Edward Wang Message-Id: <199504172306.QAA20836@edcom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@trout.sri.MT.net Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP THIS GUY Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I already did, and he has it working now. / From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Mon Apr 17 13:28:22 1995 / Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:29:43 -0600 / From: Nate Williams / To: hackers@FreeBSD.org / Subject: PLEASE HELP THIS GUY / Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org / Precedence: bulk / / Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc / Subject: PS/2 mouse support under 950412-SNAP ... how? / / How do you add PS/2 mouse support to FreeBSD-950412-SNAP? / ... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 16:23:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA01045 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:23:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA01038 ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:23:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: durham@w2xo.pgh.pa.us cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: include files in 0322-SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Apr 95 22:26:47 EDT." <199504170226.WAA22660@w2xo.pgh.pa.us> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:23:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1036.798161035@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is the idea just to copy (with this exception) all of /usr/src/sys/include > and include/sys to usr include? Or what is the correct thing to do? It was somewhat buggered in this snapshot. You can do a `make includes' from /usr/src to fix things up. > There is also something about matcd. It causes the 2.0 kernel to > have problems at boot time, and you *can't* disable it with -c. The > disable command fails on matcd. I notice that matcd doesn't exist in > the 2.1 sources. Is this coming back? I have one of the "Reveal" CD-ROMS > from Egghead , which should be similar, and I'd like to see if I can munge > a driver to talk to it... This was broken but now fixed. As for the sources, they're still there in post-2.0 but moved: /sys/i386/isa/matcd/ > I'd also like to work on a driver for ham radio packet radio stuff, but > I'm not sure whether the 0322-SNAP is a good version to use as a starting > point. It appears that 0412-SNAP is *not* where to start..? I would say either would be an acceptable place to start - we're not changing much that would affect such work.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 17:31:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA05795 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:31:03 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA05783 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:31:00 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <200>; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:41:52 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:40:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Buslogic? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can someone give me a e-mail/httpd/etc for Buslogic? I want to order a Buslogic 946 and I can't find a supplier. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 17:51:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA07354 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:51:31 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA07344 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:51:28 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA10602; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:48:23 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504180048.RAA10602@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 17:48:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 17, 95 05:40:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 634 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Can someone give me a e-mail/httpd/etc for Buslogic? I want to order a > Buslogic 946 and I can't find a supplier. I don't have an email address, but there number is (408) 492-9090. I also carry the Buslogic line of products, including the 946C. I can't get a current price until the morning. Is there some reason you want the 946C over an NCR 810 based controller? Also be ware that there have been compatibility problems with the 946C and some motherboards. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 18:28:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA08415 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 18:28:43 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08409 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 18:28:41 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA00237; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 21:29:44 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 21:29:44 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504180129.VAA00237@goof.com> To: Bill Fenner Cc: Amancio Hasty , faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sound stuff again (GUS MAX) In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, April 15, 1995 13:20:59 PDT References: <199504151629.MAA26383@goof.com> <95Apr15.132102pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, April 15, 1995 at 13:20:59 (PDT), Bill Fenner wrote: > A GUS. > snd4 at 0x220 irq 11 drq 5 on isa > snd4: What kernel are you running? Is it an older one? > I went through and tried to find snd-util and didn't find it right away, but I > did find a program called "setmixer", which seems to act mostly the same as > the "mixer" program that I remember: > fenestro: {204} ./setmixer -V > vol - 90,90 > synth - 90,90 > line - 90,90 > mic - 0,0 > cd - 50,50 > fenestro: {205} ./setmixer cd 20 > I also found "xmix v2.1", which also has a "CD" slider. Built right out of the > box (after changing "linux/soundcard.h" to "machine/soundcard.h"). > These are both from sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/apps/sound/mixers. Where'd you find these utils? I'd like to try them out on my machine... -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 19:20:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA10251 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:20:24 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA10239 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:20:15 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14463(5)>; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:19:34 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:19:29 -0700 To: "matthew c. mead" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sound stuff again (GUS MAX) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Apr 95 18:29:44 PDT." <199504180129.VAA00237@goof.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:19:23 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr17.191929pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504180129.VAA00237@goof.com> you write: >On Sat, April 15, 1995 at 13:20:59 (PDT), Bill Fenner wrote: > > snd4 at 0x220 irq 11 drq 5 on isa > > snd4: > > What kernel are you running? Is it an older one? I am running SNAP-950322. > > These are both from sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/apps/sound/mixers. > > Where'd you find these utils? I'd like to try them out on my >machine... Uh, I found them on sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/apps/sound/mixers. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 19:22:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA10351 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:22:13 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA10344 ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:21:59 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA26508; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:24:40 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504180224.WAA26508@haven.ios.com> Subject: Huuuge discrepancy between "last" and "who" To: questions@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1207 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, I run a server ( P90/PCI/etc ) under binaries from SNAP 0210 and almost -current kernel . I posted a Q here , conserning very high amount of telnetds running in the system ( out of pty's finally ) few days ago and now I have other interesting problem : if I run "last" - I c some 50-54 users being logged in, while "who" reports only 25-30 of them ... Is this normal ( I doubt it :) ? It was intersting , since system showed load average at 3-5% with reportedly only 30 online users , so finally after running "ps -axj" I was able to find a LOT of processes belonging to users , which were not logged in , accordingly to "who". Since the processes had rather decent run time , obviously there were not frozen or zombie or whatever. And "last" output shows that thir owners were actually logged in .... =-=-=-= Extra Q ( 2 for the price of 1 ) : sometimes when I start "finger [user]" , the system spends some 40-60 secs till I get the result. And I can see _huuge HDD load on the system. Sometimes it works out in few seconds . The wtmp file size is about 1Mb ( will rotate it ). The passwd file has about 1800 entries. Rashid. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 19:30:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA10636 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:30:32 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA10629 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:30:23 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01819; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:31:31 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:31:31 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504180231.WAA01819@goof.com> To: Bill Fenner Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sound stuff again (GUS MAX) In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, April 17, 1995 19:19:23 PDT References: <199504180129.VAA00237@goof.com> <95Apr17.191929pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, April 17, 1995 at 19:19:23 (PDT), Bill Fenner wrote: > > > snd4 at 0x220 irq 11 drq 5 on isa > > > snd4: > > What kernel are you running? Is it an older one? > I am running SNAP-950322. Hmm. That outta be fairly close to -current... > > > These are both from sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/apps/sound/mixers. > > Where'd you find these utils? I'd like to try them out on my > >machine... > Uh, I found them on sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/apps/sound/mixers. Hmm... check this out: mmead@goof % ./setmixer -V synth - 60 pcm - 80 line - 100 mic - 0 I really don't get it. *sigh* -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 19:35:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA10834 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:35:27 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA10811 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:34:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA00285; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:32:49 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504181332.IAA00285@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:32:49 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504171621.AA08143@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 17, 95 10:21:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 796 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Do you mean that we can get hold of ODI drivers (binaries) and used them > > under FreeBSD? > > Yes, if: > > 1) They could be loaded into kernel memory. > > 2) Their external symbols are appropriately resolved. > > Both of these require knowledge of the binary file format. Server ODI (really NLM) drivers are known to be able to use polling. At least I saw one card developed in the State Technical University of Chelyabinsk that required very heavy polling (often with masked interrupts), but they wrote an NLM for it. Probably most cards have more normal NLMs but a polling-based ones are possible too and loading of such ones into kernel may be dangerous. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 19:35:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA10862 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:35:54 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA10851 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:35:49 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA02005; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:36:56 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:36:56 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504180236.WAA02005@goof.com> To: Bill Fenner Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sound stuff again (GUS MAX) In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, April 17, 1995 19:19:23 PDT References: <199504180129.VAA00237@goof.com> <95Apr17.191929pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, April 17, 1995 at 19:19:23 (PDT), Bill Fenner wrote: > > Where'd you find these utils? I'd like to try them out on my > >machine... > > Uh, I found them on sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/apps/sound/mixers. Also - the xmix shows the CD slider as ghosted... I really don't get this! :-/ -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 21:03:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13174 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 21:03:35 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA13168 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 21:03:34 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id LAA04611 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:56:36 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Routing nightmares. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504140914.LAA17784@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 14, 95 11:14:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 984 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Joe Greco wrote: > > > > daneel# ifconfig ed0 > > ed0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 > > inet 151.186.28.254 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 151.186.28.255 > > daneel# ifconfig ed1 > > ed1: flags=8863 mtu 1500 > > inet 151.186.20.196 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 151.186.255.255 > > I'm not an INET expert, but ``common wisdom'' says you will have to > use the same subnet mask throughout the whole net. > This is definitly the experience I have had...... it is UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY BROKEN!!!!! it may be that some of the NEWER revisions of the routing control protocols may fix this (MAYBE).. but I wouldn't count on it.. anyway teh problem is outside your little enclave and in the wider world.. (bad news I'm afraid.... (though you could see if you can broadcast proxy-arp messages for all your internal nodes and 'attract' all packets for them to your gateway :) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 21:08:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13321 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 21:08:21 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA13301 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 21:08:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA00485 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:02:18 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504181402.JAA00485@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Why a.out and .o are different ? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:02:18 -0500 (GMT-0500) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 241 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Why a.out and .o files have different formats ? IMO the universal format will be more convenient. Or it will not ? Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 21:35:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13799 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 21:35:25 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA13789 ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 21:35:23 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id LAA04398; Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:39:15 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id MAA29401; Fri, 14 Apr 1995 12:40:20 -0600 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 12:40:20 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504141840.MAA29401@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Peter Dufault "Re: SCSI target" (Apr 14, 2:09pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Peter Dufault , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Subject: Re: SCSI target Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > However, the only host adapter that supports this is the Adaptec > > > 1542B. The 1542C will hang the bus big time if you put it into > > > target mode, so I've locked it out. > > > > Great! But one of my 1542B's bit the dust about a month ago so now > > I only have one of them :-( :-(. > > I only have one also. > > (...) > > If you loose that card and still need one to work with I can arrange > > to put an NCR 53C810 controller in your house on a permanent loan > > basis. > > I'm not planning on adding the support to the firmware - initially, > I could probably use the 1542B more than the 810 for test. If anyone > has a 1542B sitting in a closet (as I did until recently) feel free to > send it. If anyone has a controller which is better than a 1542B for a straight ISA box (No VLB frills), I'd be willing to trade it for my 1542B. I'm not real pleased with the performance out of the one I have, and would certainly be willing to trade up to get better disk performance. (I'm getting about 60% of what I could with my PD2100S) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 22:10:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA14583 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:10:42 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA14577 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:10:41 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11878; Mon, 17 Apr 95 23:03:38 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504180503.AA11878@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 95 23:03:37 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181332.IAA00285@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 18, 95 08:32:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Server ODI (really NLM) drivers are known to be able to use polling. At > least I saw one card developed in the State Technical University of > Chelyabinsk that required very heavy polling (often with masked > interrupts), but they wrote an NLM for it. Most of the ones I know about are interrupt driven. > Probably most cards have more normal NLMs but a polling-based > ones are possible too and loading of such ones into kernel may be > dangerous. But more desirable than not supporting the card at all... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 22:41:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA15359 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:41:17 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA15350 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:41:16 -0700 Received: from dorsai.dorsai.org (amanda.dorsai.org [198.3.127.1]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id TAA19728 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 19:06:37 -0700 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 20:57:43 -0500 From: Toussaint Received: by dorsai.dorsai.org (5.67b/29Dec93-Dorsai Embassy) id AA23809; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 20:57:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199504170157.AA23809@dorsai.dorsai.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: need site listing of FREE BSD.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk can you send over or jot down some sites who has FreeBSD.. thanks.. ehenry@dorsai.org ., From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 22:55:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA15787 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:55:17 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA15781 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:55:16 -0700 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id TAA19878 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 19:26:22 -0700 Received: from sbtzi-cker.csdept (sbtzi-cker.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.65]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA22003 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:27:42 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:27:42 -0400 From: Chitra Venkatramani Message-Id: <199504170227.WAA22003@cs.sunysb.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: help with timeouts Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I am developing a token bus protocol in the FreeBSD network interrupt handler. For the token recovery algorithm that I have, I need to set microsecond timeouts (they could be off by upto 500 u_sec and still serve my purpose). As things are now, I can only set timeouts in multiples of 10 millisec. Can you please tell me how I can implement u_sec timeouts ? Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks -Chitra Venkatramani (chitra@cs.sunysb.edu) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 22:58:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA15961 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:58:48 -0700 Received: from cybernetics.net (jeffh@server0.cybernetics.net [198.80.48.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA15955 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:58:47 -0700 Received: by cybernetics.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10315; Tue, 18 Apr 95 01:58:43 EDT Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 01:58:43 EDT From: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff Hoffman) Message-Id: <9504180558.AA10315@cybernetics.net> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: 950412-SNAP installation... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to install 950412-SNAP. I have gotten beyond the point of labeling and formatting the drives, the cpio floppy, etc. Once it reboots from the harddrive, it says that it's time to continue the installation. I hit enter for Yes, and it says pid 10: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 or something like that. I can hit Yes or No continuously and it just does this over and over. Any ideas? Jeff From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 23:01:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA16027 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:01:13 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA16021 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:01:12 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.6.8]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id TAA20003 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 19:53:06 -0700 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id VAA03122; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 21:50:41 -0500 Received: from concorde.neosoft.com(198.65.161.214) by uuneo.neosoft.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003117; Sun Apr 16 21:50:35 1995 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 21:50:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Daniel Baker X-Sender: dbaker@concorde.neosoft.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: smace@neosoft.com Subject: Colorado 250 Jumbo Tape Drive Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Subject: Colorado 250 Jumbo Tape Drive Newsgroups: hackers@freebsd.org X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] [ Article crossposted from comp.os.386bsd.questions,comp.os.386.bsd ] [ Author was Daniel Baker ] [ Posted on 16 Apr 1995 00:21:43 GMT ] I am running FreeBSD 2.0-950322SNAP and I have a Colorado 250 Jumbo tape drive, which I can't get the kernel to probe it. I have it connected to my a:\ drive which is fdc0 in my kernel. If anyone can help me with some kernel configuration options, or something I can do to get it work, I'll appreciate it. Thanks! Daniel Baker Daniel Baker -- NeoSoft Student Assistant (UseNet, FTP & FreeNet Admin.) DBaker@NeoSoft.COM DBaker@Concorde-Mail.NeoSoft.COM ** http://www.neosoft.com/neosoft/staff/dbaker/default.html ** From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 23:29:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA16764 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:29:35 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA16757 ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:29:32 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id SAA19576; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 18:48:58 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id VAA17970; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 21:45:53 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 21:45:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Does someone know ? To: Joerg Wunsch cc: Dima Ruban , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504150600.IAA01637@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk just got you mail from saturday, i have been out of touch for a two days. i will add him back as soon as i can get onto freefall. right now connections are timing out adn failing, both from my home box 2.0R and from work ;(( i can traceroute and ping freefall, but telnet, ftp and rlogin die. just got into thud. here's the ruptime: % ruptime freefall down 1:13 povray up 6+15:28, 0 users, load 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 thud up 15:55, 4 users, load 1.76, 0.87, 0.66 On Sat, 15 Apr 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > As Dima Ruban wrote: > > > > I suggesting to include eric@dream.demos.su instead. At least you can mail > > him on this address. > > So ok, two pointers to this address now. Jonathan, can you put him > back on the lists? > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 23:31:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA16792 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:31:13 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA16731 ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:29:07 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id RAA19329; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:42:52 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA26257; Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:40:16 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504170040.RAA26257@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca (Todd Pfaff) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Todd Pfaff" at Apr 16, 95 02:37:50 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 632 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there support for the PCMCIA Xircom Creditcard Ethernet Adapter IIPS > in FreeBSD-2.0, or is anyone working on implementing it? Would it be > compatible with any of the supported PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? If anyone > is working on support for it, I'm willing to test. Alternatively, I could > work on this project if I had the proper technical documentation. Subscribe to hardware@freebsd.org for PCMCIA. You offer will is most welcome :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 17 23:39:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA17088 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:39:04 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA17081 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:39:03 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA02115; Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:39:00 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504180639.XAA02115@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: help with timeouts To: chitra@CS.SunySB.EDU (Chitra Venkatramani) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 23:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504170227.WAA22003@cs.sunysb.edu> from "Chitra Venkatramani" at Apr 16, 95 10:27:42 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Hi! > I am developing a token bus protocol in the FreeBSD network > interrupt handler. For the > token recovery algorithm that I have, I need to set microsecond > timeouts (they could be off by upto 500 u_sec and still serve my purpose). > As things are now, I can only set timeouts in multiples of 10 millisec. > Can you please tell me how I can implement u_sec timeouts ? > Any help will be much appreciated. There is already code that 'turns up' the system clock frequency (I believe the pc-audio code to be exact) to (I think) 10KHz so you could do similar and get 100uSec time, but the question is: do you want to be doing other things while waiting for this timeout, or just spinning awaiting it's completion? julian > > Thanks > -Chitra Venkatramani > (chitra@cs.sunysb.edu) > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 01:09:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA21923 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:09:51 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA21903 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:09:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA13088; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:57:02 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504180757.JAA13088@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: help with timeouts To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:57:01 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: chitra@CS.SunySB.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504180639.XAA02115@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 17, 95 11:38:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1245 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi! > > I am developing a token bus protocol in the FreeBSD network > > interrupt handler. For the > > token recovery algorithm that I have, I need to set microsecond > > timeouts (they could be off by upto 500 u_sec and still serve my purpose). > > As things are now, I can only set timeouts in multiples of 10 millisec. > > Can you please tell me how I can implement u_sec timeouts ? > > Any help will be much appreciated. > > There is already code that 'turns up' the system clock frequency > (I believe the pc-audio code to be exact) to (I think) 10KHz > so you could do similar and get 100uSec time, pcaudio runs at 16 KHz, I think. This means one interrupt every 62.5 uS; this is *not* something you want to run continuously on your system: the overhead is high, some interrupts are missed, even on my 486/66, and you see you clock slowing down (due to the missed interrupts). Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 01:29:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA24080 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:29:27 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA24038 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:29:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:27:06 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: Peter Dufault cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The problem is that 950412 hangs on every odd reboot somewhere In-Reply-To: <199504141317.JAA05037@hda.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Apr 1995, Peter Dufault wrote: > Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 09:17:39 -0400 (EDT) > From: Peter Dufault > To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > Cc: agl@redline.ru, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: The problem is that 950412 hangs on every odd reboot somewhere > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > > during checking for devices on the SCSI chain (I have Quantum 540S > > > attached to Aha1542) 950322 worked fine. > > > > That's.. Very bad to hear! Julian? Peter? :-) > > Is that the only thing on the device? Can you boot the old kernel and > verify that it is a kernel difference? > I've recomiled customized 041295 from the source and the problem gone somehow. The system works, albeit I have a couple of problems with AST clone card. AGL > Did I miss a more detailed bug report that I didn't save? > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation > HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 > dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 01:45:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA24945 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:45:15 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA24925 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:44:58 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA13096; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:40:44 +1000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:40:44 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504180840.SAA13096@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: chitra@CS.SunySB.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: help with timeouts Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I am developing a token bus protocol in the FreeBSD network >interrupt handler. For the >token recovery algorithm that I have, I need to set microsecond >timeouts (they could be off by upto 500 u_sec and still serve my purpose). >As things are now, I can only set timeouts in multiples of 10 millisec. >Can you please tell me how I can implement u_sec timeouts ? acquire_timer0(your_interrupt_rate, your_interrupt_handler) is suitable for high frequency periodic timeouts (preferably a multiple of 100 Hz), but only works if another driver hasn't already `acquired' the timer. acquire_timer0() was nontrivial to implement (see clkintr() in clock.c) and a general aperiodic timer would be harder. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 01:55:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA25196 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:55:09 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA25179 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 01:54:52 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA14349; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:51:13 +1000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:51:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504180851.SAA14349@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: help with timeouts Cc: chitra@CS.SunySB.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> There is already code that 'turns up' the system clock frequency >> (I believe the pc-audio code to be exact) to (I think) 10KHz >> so you could do similar and get 100uSec time, >pcaudio runs at 16 KHz, I think. This means one interrupt every >62.5 uS; this is *not* something you want to run continuously on >your system: the overhead is high, some interrupts are missed, >even on my 486/66, and you see you clock slowing down (due to the >missed interrupts). A 486/66 shouldn't miss clock interrupts at 16 KHz unless it is handicapped by a bus-hogging (broken) busmastering controller or multiple high speed FIFOed serial lines (about 3 lines with 16550's at 115200 bps). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 02:31:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA27588 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:31:52 -0700 Received: from silver.sms.fi (silver.sms.fi [193.64.137.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA27580 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:31:48 -0700 Received: (from pete@localhost) by silver.sms.fi (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA15114; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:31:43 +0300 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:31:43 +0300 Message-Id: <199504180931.MAA15114@silver.sms.fi> From: Petri Helenius To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: vat audio (again ;) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I'm running 950322 SNAP and have been unable to get vat (the multicast application) audio to work. It seems that it's receiving correctly and other multicast applications work fine but nothing comes out of vat. Anybody can help me to resolve this ? Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 02:34:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA27730 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:34:13 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA27723 for hackers; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:34:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:34:12 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504180934.CAA27723@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: devfs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk for those of you who have been asking.. devfs struggled to life this evening, after a rather drastic re-write and internal reorganisation.. it crashed soon after, but the sample below came from it.. jules # mount_devfs devfs /mnt jules # cd /mnt jules # ls disks/ jules # ls -l total 0 dr-xr-xr-x 4 root wheel 29 Dec 31 1969 disks/ jules # ls -l disks total 0 dr-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 16 Dec 31 1969 floppy/ dr-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 16 Dec 31 1969 rfloppy/ jules # cd disks jules # cd floppy jules # ls -l total 0 brw-r--r-- 2 root wheel 2, 0 Dec 31 1969 fd0.1440 it crashed on 'pwd' (I guess I have a problem with '..' somewhere (probably devfs_root) I still have some cleaning up to do, and then I'm going to hack the slice code (hi bruce) to create devfs entries for slices as they are 'found' It's still a mess, but it's a SHRINKING mess.. :) btw, looks like the DATE is not set when the fd is probed :) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 02:36:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA27931 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:36:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA27921 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:36:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Petri Helenius cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vat audio (again ;) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Apr 95 12:31:43 +0300." <199504180931.MAA15114@silver.sms.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:36:51 -0700 Message-ID: <27920.798197811@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504180931.MAA15114@silver.sms.fi>, Petri Helenius writes: > I'm running 950322 SNAP and have been unable to get vat (the multicast >application) audio to work. It seems that it's receiving correctly and >other multicast applications work fine but nothing comes out of vat. What sound card are you using? The VAT driver only works (alledgedly) with some of the cards... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 03:31:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA29348 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 03:31:05 -0700 Received: from silver.sms.fi (silver.sms.fi [193.64.137.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA29339 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 03:31:00 -0700 Received: (from pete@localhost) by silver.sms.fi (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA15230; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:28:41 +0300 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:28:41 +0300 Message-Id: <199504181028.NAA15230@silver.sms.fi> From: Petri Helenius To: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Routing nightmares. In-Reply-To: References: <199504140914.LAA17784@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > > > I'm not an INET expert, but ``common wisdom'' says you will have to > > use the same subnet mask throughout the whole net. > > Incorrect nowadays. You should but you don't have to. > This is definitly the experience I have had...... > it is UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY BROKEN!!!!! > it may be that some of the NEWER revisions of the routing control protocols > may fix this (MAYBE).. but I wouldn't count on it. They do fix. A host should send a packet out the interface it has most spesific route for. In this case, the one with mask 255.255.255.0 if the packet is for that subnetwork, otherwise on 255.255.0.0 masked interface. VLSM's are implemented in all major router equipment NOW. And have been for a while. > anyway teh problem is outside your little enclave and > in the wider world.. > > (bad news I'm afraid.... > (though you could see if you can broadcast proxy-arp > messages for all your internal nodes and 'attract' > all packets for them to your gateway :) Proxy arp is a bad idea for most cases. Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 03:48:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA29788 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 03:48:18 -0700 Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA29782 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 03:48:16 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb/3.3Wb) id TAA18269; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:48:09 +0900 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:48:09 +0900 Message-Id: <199504181048.TAA18269@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hasty@star-gate.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: Installing Lites 1.1 In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 09 Apr 1995 15:54:49 +0000. <199504091554.PAA11594@star-gate.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199504091554.PAA11594@star-gate.com> hasty@star-gate.com writes: >> I think that ld.so will not work with lites unless someone has fixed >> ld.so recently... Now I successed the installation of Lites 1.1 on Mach4 and FreeBSD 0322SNAP. Thank you!! BTW, I'm very happy if there are working ld.so on lites because I installed Lites on my laptop. Is there working ld.so on lites? -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 03:57:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA29940 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 03:57:56 -0700 Received: from silver.sms.fi (silver.sms.fi [193.64.137.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA29925 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 03:57:06 -0700 Received: (from pete@localhost) by silver.sms.fi (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA15255; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:54:11 +0300 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:54:11 +0300 Message-Id: <199504181054.NAA15255@silver.sms.fi> From: Petri Helenius To: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vat audio (again ;) In-Reply-To: <27920.798197811@freefall.cdrom.com> References: <199504180931.MAA15114@silver.sms.fi> <27920.798197811@freefall.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer writes: > In message <199504180931.MAA15114@silver.sms.fi>, Petri Helenius writes: > > I'm running 950322 SNAP and have been unable to get vat (the multicast > >application) audio to work. It seems that it's receiving correctly and > >other multicast applications work fine but nothing comes out of vat. > > What sound card are you using? The VAT driver only works (alledgedly) > with some of the cards... > PAS-16 in it's native mode. Would it help if I would also install a driver for it's sb-emulation mode? I also had to change a function definition from static to public in order to make the kernel link. If you want to try this out the easiest way is to fire up VAT and press the "Keep Audio" button and then get to the "Menu" and press 0 dBm tone button. You should hear (if it works) an 1 kHz tone coming out of your speaker(s). (even if you do not have any multicast capability in your network). You might have to specify an unicast address to get vat up if you don't have multicast built into your kernel. Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 05:50:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA02592 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 05:50:14 -0700 Received: from physics.su.oz.au (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA02579 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 05:49:59 -0700 Received: by physics.su.oz.au id AA14098 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:49:54 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199504181249.AA14098@physics.su.oz.au> Subject: mount_mfs error messages lost To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:49:53 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 339 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was trying to figure out why mount_mfs was exiting silently and not mounting anything (SNAP-950412), and I noticed that stderr gets closed in mkfs(), so the error message that would get printed when the mount() fails never gets seen. (Of course my problem was that I didn't have MFS in my kernel -- it works fine now that I do.) David From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 06:10:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA03181 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 06:10:46 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA03173 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 06:10:27 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 17:07 GMT+0400 From: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode X-Mailer: GNOS 2.3.3d Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk fault virt address =0xc fault code = supervisor read,page not present inst.ptr=0x8:0xf01aa001 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff type 0x1b DPL =0, pres=1, def32 1, gran 1 proc eflags c interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL=0 curr process = 5(init) int mask=0 panic: page fault That's with 950412 after compiling in AST4 support The problem appears on _every_ bootup. THanx AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 06:11:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA03198 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 06:11:15 -0700 Received: from kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk (kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.28.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA03189 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 06:11:05 -0700 Received: (from md@localhost) by kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA00784; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:11:01 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:11:01 +0100 From: Mark Dawson Message-Id: <199504181311.OAA00784@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk> To: terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? Cc: dwj@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Do you mean that we can get hold of ODI drivers (binaries) and > used them under FreeBSD? Yes, if: 1) They could be loaded into kernel memory. 2) Their external symbols are appropriately resolved. Both of these require knowledge of the binary file format. Kurt Mahon is the engineer who wrote the code for UnixWare. Reading the binary file format of a server ODI file shouldn't be a problem, as the libbfd shipped with Gnu binutils-2.5.2 can handle it. Configure with --enable-targets=all. Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 06:37:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA04127 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 06:37:00 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA04121 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 06:36:57 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id JAA03444; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:35:08 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504181335.JAA03444@hda.com> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, nc@ain.charm.net, todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <28748.798159038@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 17, 95 03:50:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 617 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > 2. We free software folks REALLY don't even want to see the document that > Xircom makes you sign to get ahold of the downloadable code. It's > pretty scary. Are we "free software people"? I'm an "unrestricted software person". Personally, I'm not out to change the world and other than the drawback of having only one group for support I see no reason why we shouldn't behave the same way as BSDI. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 07:19:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08132 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:19:22 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA08126 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:19:14 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA26465; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:19:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA00165; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:19:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199504181419.HAA00165@corbin.Root.COM> To: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Apr 95 17:07:00 +0400." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:19:03 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >fault virt address =0xc >fault code = supervisor read,page not present >inst.ptr=0x8:0xf01aa001 >code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff type 0x1b >DPL =0, pres=1, def32 1, gran 1 >proc eflags c >interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL=0 >curr process = 5(init) >int mask=0 >panic: page fault > >That's with 950412 after compiling in AST4 support >The problem appears on _every_ bootup. I need the output of nm /kernel | sort (actually, whatever the kernel is called); preferably just the routines around 0xf01aa001. I'd also like a copy of your kernel config file. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 07:26:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08464 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:26:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA08328 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:24:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter Dufault cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, nc@ain.charm.net, todd@water.eng.mcmaster.ca, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Apr 95 09:35:07 EDT." <199504181335.JAA03444@hda.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:24:01 -0700 Message-ID: <8327.798215041@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Free software people don't just have "change the world" issues to deal with. There are other hazards to signing an NDA. Jordan > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > 2. We free software folks REALLY don't even want to see the document that > > Xircom makes you sign to get ahold of the downloadable code. It's > > pretty scary. > > Are we "free software people"? I'm an "unrestricted software > person". > > Personally, I'm not out to change the world and other than the > drawback of having only one group for support I see no reason why > we shouldn't behave the same way as BSDI. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation > HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 > dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 07:31:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08534 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:31:24 -0700 Received: from cybernetics.net (jeffh@server0.cybernetics.net [198.80.48.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA08528 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:31:21 -0700 Received: by cybernetics.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07105; Tue, 18 Apr 95 10:31:19 EDT Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 10:31:19 EDT From: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff Hoffman) Message-Id: <9504181431.AA07105@cybernetics.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: update on 950412-SNAP... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I also noticed this time that, behind the first dialog that pops up (the one that says it is now time to install from HD, CD, etc), it has a message about fsck failing on signal 11, too, I believe. I can't read all of it, so I am guessing, but there is an error there. Then I choose Yes to continue and get pid 10: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 pid 11: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 etc I have no clue what's going wrong or how to fix it. Any ideas? Jeff From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 08:19:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09529 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:19:37 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA09522 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:19:35 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06609; Tue, 18 Apr 95 10:18:11 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504181518.AA06609@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 10:18:10 -0500 (CDT) Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504180048.RAA10602@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 17, 95 05:48:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1176 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Can someone give me a e-mail/httpd/etc for Buslogic? I want to order a > > Buslogic 946 and I can't find a supplier. > > I don't have an email address, but there number is (408) 492-9090. I > also carry the Buslogic line of products, including the 946C. I can't > get a current price until the morning. > > Is there some reason you want the 946C over an NCR 810 based controller? > > Also be ware that there have been compatibility problems with the 946C and > some motherboards. I am considering purchasing a high end 486 in the near future (486DX2/80?) for use as a new news server. Having heard so many good things about PCI, the NCR 810, etc., and not knowing anything at all about PCI, I was wondering: Is there a good 486 PCI motherboard available? What chipset should I be looking for? Can I jam multiple NCR 810's on the thing and expect it to work? (say, for example, 3 or 4 of them). Any suggestions/advice appreciated. :-) Thanks, ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 08:24:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09643 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:24:57 -0700 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09630 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:24:54 -0700 Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (8.6.11/8.6.10/MOT-3.6) with ESMTP id KAA26259; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 10:24:21 -0500 Received: from po_box.cig.mot.com (po_box.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.5]) by pobox.mot.com (8.6.11/8.6.10/MOT-3.6) with ESMTP id KAA28890; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 10:24:20 -0500 Received: from eland.cig.mot.com (eland.cig.mot.com [136.182.4.142]) by po_box.cig.mot.com (8.6.11/SCERG-RELAY-1.11) with ESMTP id LAA05197; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:27:55 -0400 Received: (grosch@localhost) by eland.cig.mot.com (8.6.11/SCERG-1.12C) id KAA24127; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 10:24:19 -0500 From: "Joseph C. Grosch" Message-Id: <9504181024.ZM24125@eland> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 10:24:18 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: ehenry@dorsai.org Subject: FreeBSD mirror sites Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Enclosed is the current list of mirror sites. This list is also kept at my web page, which is ; http://www.interaccess.com/users/joeg/ported.html Josef -------Cut Here-------------Cut Here--------------Cut Here-------------- IV. Mirror sites for FreeBSD A quick note about these sites; Please use the mirror site nearest you. Don't go to the Mother Site (FreeBSD.org or CDROM.com) These poor machines are getting the hell beat out of them. aIf you are outside of the United States, Please, Please, Please, do not download secure (DES) or eBones (Kerberos) from any site within the United States. Doing so could get that site into serious trouble with America's export laws. The latest versions of FreeBSD (2.0 or later) is being mirrored at the following locations: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Australia - The University of Sydney ftp.physics.usyd.edu.au/FreeBSD Finland - Finnish University and Research Network, Espoo nic.funet.fi/pub/unix/FreeBSD France - Institut Blaise Pascal, Paris ftp.ibp.fr/pub/FreeBSD Germany - University of Duisburg, NRW, Dept. of Electrical Engineering ftp.fb9dv.uni-duisburg.de/pub/unix/FreeBSD Hong Kong - Hong Kong Supernet ftp.hk.super.net/pub/FreeBSD Korea - ftp.cau.ac.kr/pub/FreeBSD Netherlands - Stichting NL.net, Amsterdam ftp.nl.net/pub/os/FreeBSD Russia - RELCOM Joint Stock Company, Moscow ftp.kiae.su/FreeBSD Sweden - University of Lule ftp.luth.se/pub/FreeBSD Taiwan - Nation Chiao Tung University, Hsinchu netbsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw/pub/FreeBSD Thailand - The National Electronics and Computer Technology Center, Bangkok ftp.nectec.or.th/pub/mirrors/FreeBSD USA - Digital Equipment Corporation, Palo Alto, CA. gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/BSD/FreeBSD USA - Cybernetx, Inc., Charlotte, NC. ftp.cybernetics.net/pub/FreeBSD USA - NeoSoft, Houston, TX. ftp.neosoft.com/systems/FreeBSD USA - Analysis and Technology, Inc., Crystal City, VA. kryten.atinc.com/pub/FreeBSD USA - The Digital Dataplex, Austin, TX. ftp.dataplex.net/pub/FreeBSD Japan - Toyohashi University of Technology, Aich Prefectural ftp.tut.ac.jp/FreeBSD Japan - Software Research Associcates, Inc. Tokyo ftp.sra.co.jp/pub/os/FreeBSD Japan - University of Electra-Communications, Tokyo ftp.ee.uec.ac.jp/pub/os/FreeBSD.other Japan - Waseda University, Tokyo ftp.waseda.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD Japan - Toyama Prefectural University, Toyama Prefectural, Hokuriku ftp.pu-toyama.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD Japan - The University of Aizu, Aizu-Wakamatsu, Fukushima ftp.u-aizu.ac.jp/pub/os/FreeBSD Japan - ftp.mei.co.jp/free/PC-UNIX/FreeBSD UK - src.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/unix/FreeBSD UK - Hensa Unix, The University of Kent at Canterbury, England unix.hensa.ac.uk/mirrors/walnut.creek/FreeBSD UK - Demon Internet Ltd., Finchley, England ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/BSD/FreeBSD The latest versions of export-restricted code for FreeBSD (2.0C or later) (eBones and secure) are being made available at the following locations. If you are outside the U.S. or Canada, please get secure (DES) and eBones (Kerberos) from one of the following foreign distribution sites: Brazil - ftp.iqm.unicamp.br/pub/FreeBSD South Africa - Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, Pretoria skeleton.mikom.csir.co.za/pub/FreeBSD South Africa - University of Cape Town, Rondebosch, Cape Town storm.sea.uct.ac.za/pub/FreeBSD $Id: bsd_pt5.txt,v 1.3 1995/04/14 17:33:49 grosch Exp $ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Josef C. Grosch | "Laugh while you can, monkey boy." grosch@cig.mot.com | John Warfin of Yoyodyne Systems, Inc. 708.632.2494 | - Buckaroo Banzai - From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 08:40:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09940 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:40:48 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA09933 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:40:46 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06725; Tue, 18 Apr 95 10:39:37 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504181539.AA06725@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Routing nightmares. To: pete@silver.sms.fi (Petri Helenius) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 10:39:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: julian@tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181028.NAA15230@silver.sms.fi> from "Petri Helenius" at Apr 18, 95 01:28:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2202 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Julian Elischer writes: > > > > > > I'm not an INET expert, but ``common wisdom'' says you will have to > > > use the same subnet mask throughout the whole net. > > > > Incorrect nowadays. You should but you don't have to. > > > This is definitly the experience I have had...... > > it is UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY BROKEN!!!!! > > it may be that some of the NEWER revisions of the routing control protocols > > may fix this (MAYBE).. but I wouldn't count on it. > > They do fix. A host should send a packet out the interface it has most > spesific route for. In this case, the one with mask 255.255.255.0 if the > packet is for that subnetwork, otherwise on 255.255.0.0 masked interface. > VLSM's are implemented in all major router equipment NOW. And have been > for a while. And FreeBSD (seems to) implement this correctly, at least as far as packet routing goes. Except that most workstations (in particular I am thinking of Suns) won't really work in this scenario, if they're located on the 255.255.0.0 interface (or at least won't be able to talk to the router-separated subnet), for the reasons we've been discussing. Unless.... > > anyway teh problem is outside your little enclave and > > in the wider world.. > > > > (bad news I'm afraid.... > > (though you could see if you can broadcast proxy-arp > > messages for all your internal nodes and 'attract' > > all packets for them to your gateway :) > > Proxy arp is a bad idea for most cases. Actually, this was the "solution". Getting the FreeBSD box to proxy ARP with two interfaces was a nightmarish mess and I sorta had it working, but it would eventually overwrite the information I was asking it to publish. It simply wasn't designed on a per-interface basis. Until it suddenly occurred to me to have some OTHER arbitrary workstation on the 255.255.0.0 network proxy arp for all the nodes on the 255.255.255.0 network... and all is very, very happy now. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 09:35:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA11162 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:35:33 -0700 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA11154 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:35:30 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA26239; Tue, 18 Apr 95 18:35:09 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id SAA01532 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:45:55 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:45:55 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199504181645.SAA01532@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: LOCALE stuff Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wanted to give the LOCALE stuff a try and was surprised that ls -l does not care about any LANG setting (I see that ctime/strftime have day/month names hardwired). Does anyone have a striking example showing that LANG=de_DE.ISO8859-1 does have any effect? I would expect that ls -l shows me country specific month/weekday names (like it does on a RS6000 AIX 3.2 in my office). Not, that I'm a great fan of the latter. # Uncomment next line if you want to setup your 8-bit locale at program ^^^^^^^ Shouldn't this be 'system startup' ? # startup automatically ENABLE_STARTUP_LOCALE=; export ENABLE_STARTUP_LOCALE # Uncomment next line to activate russian locale # LANG=ru_SU.KOI8-R; export LANG # Uncomment next line to activate italian locale # LANG=it_IT.ISO8859-1; export LANG LANG=de_DE.ISO8859-1; export LANG # For full list of locales, check /usr/share/locale/* --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #2: Tue Apr 11 20:03:36 MET DST 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 11:41:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14435 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:41:02 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14429 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:40:57 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA13296; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:36:44 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504181836.LAA13296@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504181518.AA06609@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 18, 95 10:18:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2767 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Can someone give me a e-mail/httpd/etc for Buslogic? I want to order a > > > Buslogic 946 and I can't find a supplier. > > > > I don't have an email address, but there number is (408) 492-9090. I > > also carry the Buslogic line of products, including the 946C. I can't > > get a current price until the morning. > > > > Is there some reason you want the 946C over an NCR 810 based controller? > > > > Also be ware that there have been compatibility problems with the 946C and > > some motherboards. > > I am considering purchasing a high end 486 in the near future (486DX2/80?) > for use as a new news server. Having heard so many good things about PCI, > the NCR 810, etc., and not knowing anything at all about PCI, I was > wondering: > > Is there a good 486 PCI motherboard available? What chipset should I be > looking for? Can I jam multiple NCR 810's on the thing and expect it to > work? (say, for example, 3 or 4 of them). A ``good'' 486 PCI motherboard is the ASUS PCI/I-486SP3G, it has a built in NCR810 controller. Uses bank interleaved memory (you must install 72 pin simms in pairs just like a Pentium :-)) to get decent memory speeds. And in general it just works. It has 1 annoying bug that has been found, and that is you must run the external cache in write through mode. I have not run the multi master PCI test on this board, so it may infact have problems with more than 2 SCSI controllers (this is a known problem with the Neptune chip set, but this board uses the Saturn II chip set). You only have 3 PCI slots on this board, so you could have a total of 4 NCR810's including the on board one. If your serious about this (and it looks as if you are) get back to me in private email, I'll be glad to bring another one in and load it with 3 NCR810 cards and hang disks on it and see if it lives. The other choices on boards here is the PCI/I-486AP4, I have seen reports of people using it but have no first hand experience with it :-(. It does not have the NCR built in, or the ATIO, but it does have built in PCI IDE, and 4 PCI slots. This board with a NCR810 would run about the same price as the PCI/I/-486SP3G. Note that some of the ASUS boards do not support the AMD DX2/80 chip (ie, they only have 25Mhz and 33Mhz clocks, you can run the chip, but at 66Mhz :-(). > Any suggestions/advice appreciated. :-) > > Thanks, > > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 11:44:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14474 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:44:35 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA14467 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:44:33 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14330; Tue, 18 Apr 95 12:34:42 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504181834.AA14330@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: md@doc.ic.ac.uk (Mark Dawson) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 12:34:41 MDT Cc: dwj@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181311.OAA00784@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk> from "Mark Dawson" at Apr 18, 95 02:11:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Reading the binary file format of a server ODI file shouldn't be a problem, > as the libbfd shipped with Gnu binutils-2.5.2 can handle it. Configure with > --enable-targets=all. Thank you! This is just the information I needed to go back to puttering! (I needed a legally clean source for object file format information). Has anyone considered that an environment that allows loading of ODI drivers is the first step towards an environment that can run the NetWare server NLM's in their entirety? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:02:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA14808 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:02:22 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA14795 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:02:18 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA13456; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:56:01 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504181856.LAA13456@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: md@doc.ic.ac.uk, dwj@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504181834.AA14330@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 18, 95 12:34:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 920 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Reading the binary file format of a server ODI file shouldn't be a problem, > > as the libbfd shipped with Gnu binutils-2.5.2 can handle it. Configure with > > --enable-targets=all. > > Thank you! This is just the information I needed to go back to > puttering! (I needed a legally clean source for object file format > information). :-), I didn't know you played golf :-) :-) > > Has anyone considered that an environment that allows loading of ODI > drivers is the first step towards an environment that can run the > NetWare server NLM's in their entirety? > > 8-). Yes, I had seriously though of that fact. You ever try to get sourcer to grock server.exe :-) :-) :-) It's not a pretty picture!!! I need better reverse engineering tools :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:16:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15089 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:16:11 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA15083 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:16:10 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA04280; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:13:02 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504181913.MAA04280@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, md@doc.ic.ac.uk, dwj@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181856.LAA13456@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 18, 95 11:56:01 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 629 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone considered that an environment that allows loading of ODI > > drivers is the first step towards an environment that can run the > > NetWare server NLM's in their entirety? > > > > 8-). > > Yes, I had seriously though of that fact. You ever try to get sourcer > to grock server.exe :-) :-) :-) It's not a pretty picture!!! I need > better reverse engineering tools :-(. I'm working on a programmable disassembler (TclDisass :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:19:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15162 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:19:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA15155 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:19:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff Hoffman) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: update on 950412-SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Apr 95 10:31:19 EDT." <9504181431.AA07105@cybernetics.net> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:19:21 -0700 Message-ID: <15154.798232761@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Have you tried turning off your external (and, if that doesn't work, the internal also) cache? Your problem is weird and not one I've seen myself in 950412, but it's renimiscent of some cache problems I've seen. Jordan > I also noticed this time that, behind the first dialog that pops up (the > one that says it is now time to install from HD, CD, etc), it has a message > about fsck failing on signal 11, too, I believe. I can't read all of it, > so I am guessing, but there is an error there. > > Then I choose Yes to continue and get > pid 10: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 > pid 11: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 > > etc > > I have no clue what's going wrong or how to fix it. Any ideas? > > Jeff From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:31:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15396 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:31:30 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA15390 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:31:25 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA13570; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:25:48 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504181925.MAA13570@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, md@doc.ic.ac.uk, dwj@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181913.MAA04280@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 18, 95 12:13:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1097 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Has anyone considered that an environment that allows loading of ODI > > > drivers is the first step towards an environment that can run the > > > NetWare server NLM's in their entirety? > > > > > > 8-). > > > > Yes, I had seriously though of that fact. You ever try to get sourcer > > to grock server.exe :-) :-) :-) It's not a pretty picture!!! I need > > better reverse engineering tools :-(. > > I'm working on a programmable disassembler (TclDisass :-) Well I have a really good test case for you then!!! For those who don't know, server.exe is the guts of a Novell file server. It is close to what a kernel is to Unix. The problem is with a program this size you need something higher level than assembler output, and the disassmebler must understand some of the more complex things that can be done (static jump tables are easy to handle, but dynamic ones confuse the h*ll out of every one I have ever tried :-(). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:31:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15412 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:31:53 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA15374 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:31:07 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA25362; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:29:49 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA02048; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:29:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA05125; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:15:58 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504181915.VAA05125@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Colorado 250 Jumbo Tape Drive To: dbaker@concorde-mail.neosoft.com (Daniel Baker) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:15:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, smace@neosoft.com In-Reply-To: from "Daniel Baker" at Apr 16, 95 09:50:33 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 566 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Daniel Baker wrote: > > I am running FreeBSD 2.0-950322SNAP and I have a Colorado 250 Jumbo tape > drive, which I can't get the kernel to probe it. This happens to be the FAQ of the week. :) Try booting with `-c' (from the Boot: prompt), and set flags fdc0 1 If this works for you, then you could reconfigure and rebuild a new kernel (see the FAQ for how to do this), with the ``flags 1'' added to the fdc0 line. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:37:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15505 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:37:55 -0700 Received: from silver.sms.fi (silver.sms.fi [193.64.137.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA15499 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:37:51 -0700 Received: (from pete@localhost) by silver.sms.fi (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA00615; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:35:52 +0300 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:35:52 +0300 Message-Id: <199504181935.WAA00615@silver.sms.fi> From: Petri Helenius To: Joe Greco Cc: julian@tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Routing nightmares. In-Reply-To: <9504181539.AA06725@brasil.moneng.mei.com> References: <199504181028.NAA15230@silver.sms.fi> <9504181539.AA06725@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco writes: > Except that most workstations (in particular I am thinking of Suns) won't > really work in this scenario, if they're located on the 255.255.0.0 > interface (or at least won't be able to talk to the router-separated > subnet), for the reasons we've been discussing. Unless.... > This can be solved installing a subnetwork-route pointing to the freebsd-box's interface. This is the correct way to do this. Whether your version of the OS supports the route correctly (if there was a freebsd it would) is an issue you should resolve with your OS supplier. > Actually, this was the "solution". Proxy-arp should be still consireded as an interim-time solution, you wouldn't want to get your arp-table too huge. > > Getting the FreeBSD box to proxy ARP with two interfaces was a nightmarish > mess and I sorta had it working, but it would eventually overwrite the > information I was asking it to publish. It simply wasn't designed on a > per-interface basis. IMO, unix is not an router and real routers don't run unix... Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:49:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15753 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:49:25 -0700 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA15747 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:49:21 -0700 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA02727 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:45:15 +0400 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 18 Apr 95 23:45:11 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA01595; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:02:47 +0400 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, "Christoph P. Kukulies" References: <199504181645.SAA01532@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> In-Reply-To: <199504181645.SAA01532@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>; from "Christoph P. K." at Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:45:55 +0200 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:02:47 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff Lines: 27 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1105 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504181645.SAA01532@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Christoph P. K. writes: >I wanted to give the LOCALE stuff a try and was surprised that ls -l >does not care about any LANG setting (I see that ctime/strftime have >day/month names hardwired). Time locale yet not implemented. >Does anyone have a striking example showing that >LANG=de_DE.ISO8859-1 does have any effect? I would expect that ls -l >shows me country specific month/weekday names (like it does on a RS6000 It has effect for ctype and collate now. Feel free to implement time stuff. ># Uncomment next line if you want to setup your 8-bit locale at program > ^^^^^^^ >Shouldn't this be 'system startup' ? System startup have another variables set in sysconfig. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:53:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15872 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:53:52 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA15860 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:53:44 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA25850; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:53:29 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA02380; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:53:28 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA05568; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:50:09 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504181950.VAA05568@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: mount_mfs error messages lost To: dawes@physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:50:09 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181249.AA14098@physics.su.oz.au> from "David Dawes" at Apr 18, 95 10:49:53 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 416 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Dawes wrote: > > I was trying to figure out why mount_mfs was exiting silently and not > mounting anything (SNAP-950412), and I noticed that stderr gets closed > in mkfs(),... I remember that this once came up in FreeBSD 1. I guess it had been solved there... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:55:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15906 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:55:07 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA15857 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:53:36 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA25841; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:53:22 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA02371; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:53:22 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA05535; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:48:19 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504181948.VAA05535@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: update on 950412-SNAP... To: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff Hoffman) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:48:19 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504181431.AA07105@cybernetics.net> from "Jeff Hoffman" at Apr 18, 95 10:31:19 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 631 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jeff Hoffman wrote: > > I also noticed this time that, behind the first dialog that pops up (the > one that says it is now time to install from HD, CD, etc), it has a message > about fsck failing on signal 11, too, I believe. I can't read all of it, > so I am guessing, but there is an error there. > > Then I choose Yes to continue and get > pid 10: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 > pid 11: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 Bad cache, or cache inconsistencies? Where are our experts? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:56:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15942 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:56:03 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA15887 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:54:31 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA25837; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:53:21 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA02368 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:53:21 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA05525 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:47:48 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504181947.VAA05525@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:47:48 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504181645.SAA01532@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Apr 18, 95 06:45:55 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1836 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > ... I would expect that ls -l > shows me country specific month/weekday names Umm, no, only LC_CTYPES and LC_COLLATE are supported by now. > (like it does on a RS6000 > AIX 3.2 in my office). Not, that I'm a great fan of the latter. > You mean something like this? Trying 141.56.20.5... Connected to iaix5.informatik.htw-dresden.de. Escape character is '^]'. 220 iaix5.informatik.htw-dresden.de Sendmail AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03 ready at Thu, 9 Mar 1995 00:01:22 +0100 helo uriah.heep.sax.de 250 iaix5.informatik.htw-dresden.de Hello uriah.heep.sax.de expn 250 bye 500 Unbekannter Befehl. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ quit 221 iaix5.informatik.htw-dresden.de: Die Verbindung wird beendet. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Connection closed by foreign host. uriah # finger hjn@aix3.informatik.htw-dresden.de [iaix3.informatik.htw-dresden.de] Anmeldename: hjn TatsDchlicher Name: H.-J. Neumann Ortsinfo: Z140/T.3575 Verzeichnis: /user01/fi/hjn Shell: /usr/bin/ksh Am System seit MDr 06 08:55:45 am pts/0 von iaix32 2 Tage 15 Stunden Leerlaufzeit Kein Plan. DO WE REALLY WANT THIS? :-) [Btw., watch for the totally garbled umlauts.] (I've wondered what would happen if i connect to the SMTP port of an AIX site in Japan. :-) :) > # Uncomment next line to activate italian locale > # LANG=it_IT.ISO8859-1; export LANG > LANG=de_DE.ISO8859-1; export LANG By now, there are only three locales in /usr/share/locale: ja_JP.EUC lt_LN.ISO8859-1 ru_SU.KOI8-R You'll have to set it to ``lt_LN.ISO8859-1'' for germany. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 12:59:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA16201 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:59:50 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA16194 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:59:49 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA04476; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:56:38 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504181956.MAA04476@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, md@doc.ic.ac.uk, dwj@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181925.MAA13570@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 18, 95 12:25:48 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 843 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm working on a programmable disassembler (TclDisass :-) > > Well I have a really good test case for you then!!! For those who > don't know, server.exe is the guts of a Novell file server. It is > close to what a kernel is to Unix. > > The problem is with a program this size you need something higher > level than assembler output, and the disassmebler must understand > some of the more complex things that can be done (static jump tables are > easy to handle, but dynamic ones confuse the h*ll out of every one > I have ever tried :-(). Which is why it is programmable. That way you can tell it about all the weird high-level data-structures... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 13:09:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA16524 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:09:08 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA16504 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:08:55 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14758; Tue, 18 Apr 95 14:00:49 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504182000.AA14758@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: support for Xircom PCMCIA Ethernet adapters? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 14:00:48 MDT Cc: md@doc.ic.ac.uk, dwj@kenyan.doc.ic.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181856.LAA13456@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 18, 95 11:56:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, I had seriously though of that fact. You ever try to get sourcer > to grock server.exe :-) :-) :-) It's not a pretty picture!!! I need > better reverse engineering tools :-(. If you are buying the tools, you might want to consider Watcom. It's their compiler that builds server.exe in the first place. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 13:09:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA16569 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:09:43 -0700 Received: from slip-542.netaxs.com (root@slip-542.netaxs.com [198.69.188.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA16523 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:09:06 -0700 Received: (from rcummins@localhost) by slip-542.netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA04950; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:06:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:06:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Ray Cummins To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Installing VoxWare sound drivers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There's something I've been banging my head against for a few days now - I was wondering if someone could help me with this: My ultimate goal is to get my SoundBlaster 16 to work with vat. (I'm running FreeBSD 2.0.) So far, the SoundBlaster 16 works with rplayd and rplay, and vat (v3.4) runs but doesn't make any sound - the name of the remote site blinks in vat, and pulling up statistics on that site shows that packets are coming in. By the way, am I supposed to get VU meters in vat? I don't. The README file that came with vat 3.4 says: "The i386 binary has been reported to run under NetBSD (using a modified version of the LBL sound driver) and FreeBSD (using the Linux sound driver with additional support for /dev/audio)." ...so I retrieved VoxWare v3.0-proto-950402 from sunsite.unc.edu. IT says: >NOTE! This driver should be located in the directory /sys/i386/isa/sound. > Okay. >1) cd /sys/i386/isa/sound;make well, I did: cd /sys/i386/isa/sound; mv makefile makefile.bak; mv makefile.freebsd Makefile; make This seemed to work okay. > >2) Insert files conf.c.add and conf.c.add to your > /sys/i386/i386/conf.c. Actually, there's a conf.c.add and a conf.c.add2. It's not really clear to me where in /sys/i386/i386/conf.c I'm supposed to insert these files, and I suspect this is (one of) my problem(s). Here's conf.c.add: #include "snd.h" /* Sound Blaster */ #if NSND > 0 int sndopen(), sndclose(), sndioctl(), sndread(), sndwrite(); int sndselect(); #else #define sndopen enxio #define sndclose enxio #define sndioctl enxio #define sndread enxio #define sndwrite enxio #define sndselect seltrue #endif But then there's already this in conf.c: #include "snd.h" /* General Sound Driver */ #if NSND > 0 d_open_t sndopen; d_close_t sndclose; d_ioctl_t sndioctl; d_rdwr_t sndread, sndwrite; d_select_t sndselect; #else #define sndopen (d_open_t *)enxio #define sndclose (d_close_t *)enxio #define sndioctl (d_ioctl_t *)enxio #define sndread (d_rdwr_t *)enxio #define sndwrite (d_rdwr_t *)enxio #define sndselect seltrue #endif So do I delete the original and insert the new? Or leave the original? Help? There's a similar problem with conf.c.add2: { sndopen, sndclose, sndread, sndwrite, /*E*/ sndioctl, enodev, enodev, NULL, sndselect, enodev, NULL }, but again in conf.c there's already: { sndopen, sndclose, sndread, sndwrite, /*30*/ sndioctl, nostop, nullreset, NULL, /* sound */ sndselect, nommap, NULL }, again, delete the redundant or keep it? > >3) Append file config.add to your config file. Don't forget to > check the address settings. Here's the gist of config.add: # If you have ProAudioSpectrum, uncomment units 3, 2 and 1 # If you have SoundBlaster 1.0 to 2.0 or SB Pro, uncomment 2 and 1. # If you have SoundBlaster 16, uncomment 2, 1, 6 and 7. # (use the same IRQ for the cards 2, 6 and 7. The DMA of the # card 2 is the 8 bit one and the DMA of the card 6 is the 16 bit one. # the port address of the card 7 is the Midi I/O address of the SB16. # If you have GravisUltrasound, uncomment 4 # If you have MPU-401, uncomment 5 #device snd5 at isa? port 0x330 irq 6 drq 0 vector mpuintr #device snd4 at isa? port 0x220 irq 15 drq 6 vector gusintr #device snd3 at isa? port 0x388 irq 10 drq 6 vector pasintr #device snd2 at isa? port 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 vector sbintr #device snd6 at isa? drq 5 #device snd7 at isa? port 0x300 #device snd1 at isa? port 0x388 I already have a kernel with these devices: device snd2 at isa? port 0x220 irq 10 drq 1 vector sbintr device snd6 at isa? port 0x220 irq 10 drq 7 vector sbintr device snd1 at isa? port 0x388 device snd7 at isa? port 0x300 and these devices are probed successfully, and as I said, rplayd and rplay work, so I left these entries alone. > >4) Append files.i386.add to the /sys/i386/conf/files.i386 > It says append, so I did: cat files.i386.add >>/sys/i386/conf/files.i386 I noticed after this step that some of the lines in files.i386 are duplicated, but removing the redundant lines doesn't affect the outcome of step 6, below. Also, there's a line in the original that says i386/isa/sound/vat_audio.c optional vat_audio but the mentioned file doesn't exist. Does this matter? >5) Create the device files using makedev.sh > This seemed to work okay. >6) Run the configuration program and make the kernel. > I did: cd /sys/i386/conf; config BCL; cd ../../compile/BCL; make depend then doing a make gets to the very end, very encouraging, but spits out this: loading kernel conf.o: Undefined symbol `_sndopen' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_sndclose' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_sndread' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_sndwrite' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_sndioctl' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_sndselect' referenced from data segment ioconf.o: Undefined symbol `_snddriver' referenced from data segment ioconf.o: Undefined symbol `_sbintr' referenced from data segment ioconf.o: Undefined symbol `_snddriver' referenced from data segment ioconf.o: Undefined symbol `_sbintr' referenced from data segment ioconf.o: Undefined symbol `_snddriver' referenced from data segment ioconf.o: Undefined symbol `_snddriver' referenced from data segment *** Error code 1 Stop. Anyone out there have any suggestions? Is v3.0-proto-950402 really what I need? Is there a better solution? Sorry that this is not as coherent as it should be. Thanks in advance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Ray Cummins, Computer Operator | Tel: (609) 267-9660 x3032 | |Burlington County Library | Fax: (609) 267-4091 | |5 Pioneer Blvd. | | |Mt. Holly, NJ 08060 | rcummins@netaxs.com | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 13:22:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17028 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:22:23 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA17022 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:22:18 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Routing nightmares. To: pete@silver.sms.fi (Petri Helenius) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, julian@TFS.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181935.WAA00615@silver.sms.fi> from "Petri Helenius" at Apr 18, 95 10:35:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1496 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Joe Greco writes: > > Except that most workstations (in particular I am thinking of Suns) won't > > really work in this scenario, if they're located on the 255.255.0.0 > > interface (or at least won't be able to talk to the router-separated > > subnet), for the reasons we've been discussing. Unless.... > > > This can be solved installing a subnetwork-route pointing to the freebsd-box's > interface. This is the correct way to do this. Whether your version of the > OS supports the route correctly (if there was a freebsd it would) is an issue > you should resolve with your OS supplier. The SUN man pages and other docs, used to (I haven't checked recently) be very specific about only having one netmask for all nodes on the same 'allocated' (e.g. class b or c) net. I remember, because it totally stuffed up a particular network layout I was designing, and cost me mucho time and (the company's) money. > > > Actually, this was the "solution". I'm glad it worked :) > > Proxy-arp should be still consireded as an interim-time solution, you wouldn't > want to get your arp-table too huge. > > > > Getting the FreeBSD box to proxy ARP with two interfaces was a nightmarish > > mess and I sorta had it working, but it would eventually overwrite the > > information I was asking it to publish. It simply wasn't designed on a > > per-interface basis. > > IMO, unix is not an router and real routers don't run unix... true, but it can do for some apps. > > Pete > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 13:47:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17973 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:47:57 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17960 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:47:53 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA04963; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:47:50 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:47:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199504182047.NAA04963@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Our research group (NOW, short for Network of Workstations, doing research on a parallel computing environment to replace MPPs) are now discussing for a possible extension of horizon to PCs. Of course, I think this is a good chance to have them realize that they can get "commercial-grade" (no flames please, note the quotes) BSD operating systems on fast, inexpensive computers. The next group meeting is on Thursday, so I need to make some quick preperation. I'm the only FreeBSD proponent in the group, there are several Linux users, and the rest are "workstation > PC" people. So, if you have any documentation or list of caveats and emptors (pardon my Latin), I'd like to hear from you. Anything will be fine, of course I won't merely reuse them, I just need examples and list of things to consider. Also, if people are aware of high-end network components supported by FreeBSD, it will be great. I've found something about the DEC 21140 based chip in the mail archive, is the driver fully functional now? How much does it cost? (Those kinds of questions.) Same goes to the FDDI driver. Note that this will be a HUGE project, which might go up to the order of thousands. The main discussion topic is like "hundreds of workstations or thousands of PCs?". Thanks! Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 13:49:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA18071 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:49:49 -0700 Received: from cybernetics.net (jeffh@server0.cybernetics.net [198.80.48.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA18060 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:49:47 -0700 Received: by cybernetics.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10871; Tue, 18 Apr 95 16:49:09 EDT Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:48:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Hoffman To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: update on 950412-SNAP... In-Reply-To: <199504181948.VAA05535@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > Then I choose Yes to continue and get > > pid 10: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 > > pid 11: sh: uid 0: exit on signal 11 > > Bad cache, or cache inconsistencies? Where are our experts? I ran 950210-SNAP fine on this same machine. Were there changes made that would affect this? > cheers, J"org Jeff -- Jeff Hoffman -- jeffh@cybernetics.net ------------------------------------- "A man facing the light looks not into sorrow, but to to the future...always." WWW: http://www.cybernetics.net/users/jeffh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PGP Public Key available on request. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 13:54:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA18219 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:54:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA18206 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:54:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Ray Cummins cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Installing VoxWare sound drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Apr 95 16:06:30 EDT." Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:54:07 -0700 Message-ID: <18205.798238447@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 1. Run 2.0-950322-SNAP or later (-current is good! :-). The sound drivers have changed significantly and you're beating your head needlessly against the old code. 2. Ignore all those installation instructions - sound is already integrated into FreeBSD and you don't need to diddle conf.c or anything else in /sys other than your kernel configuration file. 3. Once you're running -current or a recent snap, the sound entries in your kernel config file should look like this: controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 vector sbintr device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 4. Once you're running the new kernel, go to /dev and do a `./MAKEDEV snd0' 5. You should now have a reasonable though non-vat capable /dev/audio. This is the place to start.. :-) 6. Talk to Amancio Hasty . 7. Good luck! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 14:16:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19063 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:16:54 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19057 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:16:52 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA04916; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:16:49 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504182116.OAA04916@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504182047.NAA04963@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=" at Apr 18, 95 01:47:50 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2213 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk don't forget to mention booting off the network, and the 'over-the-net' install that means you will only need a floppy (or less) to install a machine.. (or as we have done here...) boot off the net, install onto hard-drive.. > > Our research group (NOW, short for Network of Workstations, doing > research on a parallel computing environment to replace MPPs) are now > discussing for a possible extension of horizon to PCs. Of course, I > think this is a good chance to have them realize that they can get > "commercial-grade" (no flames please, note the quotes) BSD operating > systems on fast, inexpensive computers. (also ask if SCSI communication between machines for large data migrations might be of interest..) get a pentium/90 system and the 100MB enet, with 32MB ram and on-board NCR scsi, and IDE, and you could SCSI-cluster 8 machines (16 for wide) and connect the clusters with 100MB enet ! > > The next group meeting is on Thursday, so I need to make some quick > preperation. I'm the only FreeBSD proponent in the group, there are > several Linux users, and the rest are "workstation > PC" people. > work on the price of the WS vs the Price of a good PC and point out you can get free CDs (: > So, if you have any documentation or list of caveats and emptors > (pardon my Latin), I'd like to hear from you. Anything will be fine, > of course I won't merely reuse them, I just need examples and list of > things to consider. > > Also, if people are aware of high-end network components supported by > FreeBSD, it will be great. I've found something about the DEC 21140 > based chip in the mail archive, is the driver fully functional now? > How much does it cost? (Those kinds of questions.) Same goes to the > FDDI driver. > > Note that this will be a HUGE project, which might go up to the order > of thousands. The main discussion topic is like "hundreds of > workstations or thousands of PCs?". better modelling of large clusters with more but cheaper machines :) talk to Rod about the absolute cheapest pentium/486DX4 based systems.. I assume they will be 'rack mounted?' sounds like fun.. where are you doing this? (got room for outsiders? :) > > Thanks! > > Satoshi > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 14:24:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19326 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:24:19 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA19320 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:24:15 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA28875; Tue, 18 Apr 95 21:23:44 GMT Received: from junco.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA021800191; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:23:11 GMT Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:23:11 GMT From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <199504182123.AA021800191@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA003410232; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:23:52 -0600 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181836.LAA13296@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Buslogic? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Rodney" == Rodney W Grimes writes: Rodney> A ``good'' 486 PCI motherboard is the ASUS PCI/I-486SP3G, Rodney> it has a built in NCR810 controller. Does anyone know why Paul Vixie (you listening, Paul?) can't recommend the NCR-based SCSI controller? Better questions: what are the disadvantages of the NCR810? -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In FORTRAN: You shoot yourself in each toe, iteratively, until you run out of toes, then you read in the next foot and repeat. If you run out of bullets, you continue with the attempts to shoot yourself anyways because you have no exception-handling capability. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 14:31:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19521 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:31:41 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19513 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:31:33 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14107; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:28:44 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504182128.OAA14107@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504182047.NAA04963@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=" at Apr 18, 95 01:47:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2279 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Our research group (NOW, short for Network of Workstations, doing > research on a parallel computing environment to replace MPPs) are now > discussing for a possible extension of horizon to PCs. Of course, I > think this is a good chance to have them realize that they can get > "commercial-grade" (no flames please, note the quotes) BSD operating > systems on fast, inexpensive computers. > > The next group meeting is on Thursday, so I need to make some quick > preparation. I'm the only FreeBSD proponent in the group, there are > several Linux users, and the rest are "workstation > PC" people. > > So, if you have any documentation or list of caveats and emptors > (pardon my Latin), I'd like to hear from you. Anything will be fine, > of course I won't merely reuse them, I just need examples and list of > things to consider. > > Also, if people are aware of high-end network components supported by > FreeBSD, it will be great. I've found something about the DEC 21140 > based chip in the mail archive, is the driver fully functional now? > How much does it cost? (Those kinds of questions.) Same goes to the > FDDI driver. The SMC 9332 cards are now shipping, my distributor has them in stock, my selling price is $221.00 shipped to any US address via UPS ground. I am still waiting on the SMC 9332EVAL kits to find out if I can resell them or not. I talked to SMC on this and they did not even know themselves if they had marked the product ``not for resell''. They did state the main purpose of the eval kits was for VAR's and OEM's to be able to test the product for compatibility and that it was not really meant to be an end user product. As far as I know they are working (I am currently waiting on 4 of them, and a 100MB/sec hub to arrive so I can do the testing). I will post test results once the hardware is here and up and running. > Note that this will be a HUGE project, which might go up to the order > of thousands. The main discussion topic is like "hundreds of > workstations or thousands of PCs?". The line between a workstation and a PC is becoming very grey these days. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 14:32:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19534 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:32:18 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19525 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:32:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:32:16 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199504182132.OAA19525@freefall.cdrom.com> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oh for heaven's sake. Just invoke NIH and wish Linux away. You are at an academic institution after all. Seriously, just stress how good the BSD source base is over some home-grown Minix kernel and non-BSD TCP/IP. Making a case for BSD should not be hard, especially since many of these professors, scratch that, all of them, the old ones at least, all used to run BSD on their VAXes and SunOS on their suns. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 14:44:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19978 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:44:23 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19972 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:44:20 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id OAA10181 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:41:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA00917; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:06:16 +0200 Message-Id: <199504182106.XAA00917@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: 90's compilers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Apr 1995 19:05:19 +0200." <16934.797965519@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:06:16 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You (not YOU, Joerg, the generic "you" :) `One' ;-) Julian S. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 14:51:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20167 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:51:39 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA20161 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:51:37 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07415; Tue, 18 Apr 95 16:50:29 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504182150.AA07415@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Routing nightmares. To: pete@silver.sms.fi (Petri Helenius) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:50:28 -0500 (CDT) Cc: julian@tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181935.WAA00615@silver.sms.fi> from "Petri Helenius" at Apr 18, 95 10:35:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2090 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This can be solved installing a subnetwork-route pointing to the freebsd-box's > interface. This is the correct way to do this. Whether your version of the > OS supports the route correctly (if there was a freebsd it would) is an issue > you should resolve with your OS supplier. This is the "correct" way to do it, agreed, but it is not supported by ANYBODY that I've seen - including FreeBSD - so it is also a useless way to do it. > > Actually, this was the "solution". > > Proxy-arp should be still consireded as an interim-time solution, you wouldn't > want to get your arp-table too huge. The way our Corporate guys move, I don't necessarily consider it interim. The arp table has another 255 entries in it. It's a SPARCstation 2. It can just have to deal with it. :-) > > Getting the FreeBSD box to proxy ARP with two interfaces was a nightmarish > > mess and I sorta had it working, but it would eventually overwrite the > > information I was asking it to publish. It simply wasn't designed on a > > per-interface basis. > > IMO, unix is not an router and real routers don't run unix... Give me a real router for $200 and I'll happily install it here. :-) In the meantime, I am fortunate that I happen to have a sophisticated OS that implements TCP/IP so well. I can take hardware that is laying around and build a router, without paying Cisco several thousand more dollars (we already have Cisco routers, the Corporate guys are sitting on them, I got pissed after several months of no-progress, and I implemented something *today* that should have been done a year ago, and won't be done for several more months). UNIX is more of a router than a router is. I've never seen a router that can talk SMTP before. And I like to be able to log in and poke at things, something you can't do with cheap routers. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 14:52:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20188 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:52:31 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20180 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:52:26 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14198; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:48:12 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504182148.OAA14198@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504182123.AA021800191@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Apr 18, 95 09:23:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1188 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >>>>> "Rodney" == Rodney W Grimes writes: > > Rodney> A ``good'' 486 PCI motherboard is the ASUS PCI/I-486SP3G, > Rodney> it has a built in NCR810 controller. > > Does anyone know why Paul Vixie (you listening, Paul?) can't recommend > the NCR-based SCSI controller? Becase he is selling to the BSD/OS user, and BSD/OS does not have support for the card. > > Better questions: what are the disadvantages of the NCR810? So far I have seen some compatibility problems between the sequencer code that we use in FreeBSD and some DAT and CDROM drives. Other than that problem it is the main controller I sell in my systems. I have CDROM drives and DAT drives that work just fine with it. I run Quantum/Micropolis and DEC disk drives with it and have had no problems in that area. I have yet to see a motherboard compatibility problem with it like I see with the BT946's. The performance seems as good as any other PCI SCSI controller with respect to both system loading and bandwidth. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 15:11:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20682 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:11:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA20674 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:11:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Apr 95 21:23:11 GMT." <199504182123.AA021800191@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:11:17 -0700 Message-ID: <20673.798243077@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone know why Paul Vixie (you listening, Paul?) can't recommend > the NCR-based SCSI controller? 1. I doubt that Paul V. is listening - he doesn't read -hackers (and no wonder, with his workload). 2. The reason Paul doesn't recommend NCR based controllers is based around the simple fact that BSD/OS doesn't support them! :-) I'm told that support for it and the AHA2{7,8,9}4x is also forthcoming in a future release of BSDI. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 15:15:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20835 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:15:23 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA20827 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:15:17 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <161>; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:27:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:26:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Sean Kelly cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <199504182123.AA021800191@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, Sean Kelly wrote: > Does anyone know why Paul Vixie (you listening, Paul?) can't recommend > the NCR-based SCSI controller? > > Better questions: what are the disadvantages of the NCR810? The reason is that BSDI did not support NCR SCSI controllers until recently. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 15:15:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20842 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:15:25 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA20836 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:15:23 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id PAA10636 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:11:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA19753; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:41:46 +0200 Message-Id: <199504180041.CAA19753@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: uh@grep.cs.fsu.edu (Gang-Ryung Uh), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HP Laserjet 2p In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:12:34 +0200." <199504110712.JAA03497@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 02:41:43 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > AFAIK, Laserjets don't like Un*x files which used to have only a > single \n as their line terminators. I've heard that there might be a > hardware switch to change this behaviour. ESC & k 2 G with no spaces between, & ESC as the real escape ascii char will also work. I think working through the LCD menu on my HP3P for instance may also do it. > Sorry, there's still no ``printer guru'' available. I know quite a bit of HP PCL 5 (I did a freelance project targetting it :-) so am happy to answer some PCL 5 questions from time to time; however I'm not the right person to ask about printcap filters, Tex, apsfilter etc. To learn about the HP2 & 3 series, & PCL5. I reccomend "HP PCL 5 Printer Language Technical Reference Manual" It cost me 45 Deutsche Mark in Sept '91. It has no ISBN, publisher is HP. I ordered it at the shop that sold me the laser printer. --- Julian Stacey Tel. +49 89 268616. Fax Modem: 2608126 Vector Systems Ltd: an Internet, Unix & C systems consultancy. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 15:21:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21030 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:21:12 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21021 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:21:07 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA10878; Tue, 18 Apr 95 15:19:09 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA11425; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:19:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02020; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:20:20 GMT Message-Id: <199504181820.SAA02020@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:47:50 MST." <199504182047.NAA04963@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:20:19 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Also, if people are aware of high-end network components supported by > FreeBSD, it will be great. I've found something about the DEC 21140 > based chip in the mail archive, is the driver fully functional now? > How much does it cost? (Those kinds of questions.) Same goes to the > FDDI driver. Mr. High Speed Networking here. :-) The DC21140 (Fast Ethernet; 100baseT) seems to be fairly stable. Adapters will run from about $200 to $250. However, Fast Ethernet isn't as well established as FDDI which means that choices for switches and hubs are limited. I've also found that Fast Ethernet is an improvement over normal 10Mb/s Ethernet, it still isn't as fast or robust as FDDI. The DEC FDDI adapters have 1MB of buffering on them whereas the DC21140 has around 4KB. Therefore the FDDI adapters are really good at absorbing bursts of traffic while the Fast Ethernet may not be. Long 10Mb/s Ethernet packets take about 1.2ms to transmit and 70us is about the minimum between small back-to-back packets. For Fast Ethernet, that drops to 120us and 7us respectively and when coupled with a smaller MTU (1500 < 4500) gives a considerably higher interrupt load. If you want rock-solid high speed networking right now, go with FDDI. Otherwise, wait out the Fast Ethernet teething problems and go with that. One thing to be noted as well, Fast Ethernet is "easier" to push data than FDDI since with FDDI you need to get the large window scale option to come into play to get optimum performance (a socket buffer size of 240KB is real nice). Fast Ethernet can use the standard socket buffer size. Does that help? Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com U*X Networking WWW URL: http://ftp.dec.com/%7Ethomas/ Digital Equipment Corporation Disclaimer: This message reflects my Littleton, MA own warped views, etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 15:25:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21142 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:25:20 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA21136 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:25:16 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id PAA10793 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:21:38 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28378; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:22:11 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA03518 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:22:10 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA06370 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:21:27 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504182221.AAA06370@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: HP Laserjet 2p To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:21:26 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504180041.CAA19753@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 18, 95 02:41:43 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 517 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Howard Stacey wrote: > > Sorry, there's still no ``printer guru'' available. > > I know quite a bit of HP PCL 5 (I did a freelance project targetting it :-) ... The question was rather: we're still in need for someone who's able & ready & willing to support the whole printer drama for FreeBSD. Jordan can tell you more about what that person should do... :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 15:30:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21313 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:30:36 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21303 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:30:31 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA15359 (5.65.kiae-2 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:15:57 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 19 Apr 95 02:15:56 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id CAA02874 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:12:36 +0400 To: FreeBSD hackers References: <199504181947.VAA05525@uriah.heep.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <199504181947.VAA05525@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch at Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:47:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:12:36 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff Lines: 23 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 838 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504181947.VAA05525@uriah.heep.sax.de> J Wunsch writes: >500 Unbekannter Befehl. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >quit >221 iaix5.informatik.htw-dresden.de: Die Verbindung wird beendet. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is is error to set locale environment for ftpd. >By now, there are only three locales in /usr/share/locale: >ja_JP.EUC lt_LN.ISO8859-1 ru_SU.KOI8-R >You'll have to set it to ``lt_LN.ISO8859-1'' for germany. No. Do 'make hierarchy' at top level and you got needed symlinks. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 15:53:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA26493 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:53:48 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA26486 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:53:38 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28786; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:53:00 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA03910; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:53:00 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA06611; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:35:23 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504182235.AAA06611@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: update on 950412-SNAP... To: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff Hoffman) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:35:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hoffman" at Apr 18, 95 04:48:58 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 412 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jeff Hoffman wrote: > > > Bad cache, or cache inconsistencies? Where are our experts? > > I ran 950210-SNAP fine on this same machine. Were there changes made > that would affect this? Ooooh, in that case: other people should answer this. I'm at a loss then. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 16:00:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26704 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:00:03 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA26688 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:00:00 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA15689; Tue, 18 Apr 95 16:53:23 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504182253.AA15689@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 16:53:22 MDT Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504182128.OAA14107@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 18, 95 02:28:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The line between a workstation and a PC is becoming very grey these > days. A workstation is any graphics capable machine not running an Intel processer. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 16:00:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26739 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:00:54 -0700 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA26726 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:00:49 -0700 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA15602; Wed, 19 Apr 95 01:00:14 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 01:00:14 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9504190000.AA15602@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: proposed change to ld.so X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Current ld.so can't load a shared library that depends on other shared libraries (cascades). The patch below, which is taken from NetBSD-current (and due to matthew green ) solve this problem. I tested it and it seems to work correctly. What about adopting this change? Jean-Marc. Index: rtld.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/rtld.c,v retrieving revision 1.22 diff -c -r1.22 rtld.c *** 1.22 1995/03/04 17:46:24 --- rtld.c 1995/04/18 22:35:20 *************** *** 186,191 **** --- 186,193 ---- static void maphints __P((void)); static void unmaphints __P((void)); + static int dl_cascade __P((struct so_map *)); + static inline int strcmp (register const char *s1, register const char *s2) { *************** *** 1291,1296 **** --- 1293,1302 ---- #endif return NULL; } + + if (dl_cascade(smp) == 0) + return NULL; + if (LM_PRIVATE(smp)->spd_refcount++ == 0) { LM_PRIVATE(smp)->spd_flags |= RTLD_DL; if (reloc_map(smp) < 0) *************** *** 1406,1409 **** --- 1412,1458 ---- vsprintf(buf, fmt, ap); (void)write(1, buf, strlen(buf)); va_end(ap); + } + + static int + dl_cascade(smp) + struct so_map *smp; + { + struct sod *sodp; + struct so_map *smp2; + long next; + + next = LD_NEED(smp->som_dynamic); + + while (next) { + sodp = (struct sod *)(LM_LDBASE(smp) + next); + if ((smp2 = map_object(sodp, smp)) == NULL) { + #ifdef DEBUG + xprintf("ld.so: map_object failed on cascaded %s %s (%d.%d): %s\n", + smp->sod_library ? "library" : "file", smp->sod_name, + smp->sod_major, smp->sod_minor, strerror(errno)); + #endif + /* XXX call generror here? */ + return 0; + } + #if 0 + /* + * XXX - this doesn't work for some reason. not + * at all sure why. -mrg + */ + if (dl_cascade(smp2) == 0) + return 0; + #endif + + if (LM_PRIVATE(smp2)->spd_refcount++ == 0) { + LM_PRIVATE(smp2)->spd_flags |= RTLD_DL; + reloc_map(smp2); + reloc_copy(smp2); + init_map(smp2, ".init"); + init_map(smp2, "_init"); + } + + next = sodp->sod_next; + } + return 1; } ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Observatoire de Besancon | F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 16:21:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA27175 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:21:46 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA27167 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:21:42 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id RAA01140; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:25:29 -0600 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:25:29 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504182325.RAA01140@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) "proposed change to ld.so" (Apr 19, 1:00am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Current ld.so can't load a shared library that depends on other shared > libraries (cascades). The patch below, which is taken from > NetBSD-curren..... I've got this patch (or something very similar) in my development sources at home. However, there are much bigger problems with the ld code that I didn't want to make any additions to the code which might make the solution to the problems more complicated. Thanks! Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 16:41:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA27570 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:41:51 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA27561 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:41:40 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15523 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:35:09 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA26949; 18 Apr 95 17:57:21 CDT (Tue) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA26946; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:57:20 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504182257.RAA26946@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:57:20 -0500 (CDT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504182116.OAA04916@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 02:16:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 106 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > talk to Rod about the absolute cheapest > pentium/486DX4 based systems.. I hear Intel is sampling P6. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 17:12:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA28222 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:12:14 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA28202 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:12:06 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15779 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:02:47 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA28546; 18 Apr 95 18:44:42 CDT (Tue) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA28543; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:44:41 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504182344.SAA28543@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: HP Laserjet 2p To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:44:41 -0500 (CDT) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, uh@grep.cs.fsu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504180041.CAA19753@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 18, 95 02:41:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 314 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > AFAIK, Laserjets don't like Un*x files which used to have only a > > single \n as their line terminators. I've heard that there might be a > > hardware switch to change this behaviour. > ESC & k 2 G Or if you're using a networked printer, connect to "rp=text" instead of "rp=raw" and it'll do it magically. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 17:20:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA28407 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:20:56 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA28401 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:20:55 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA04161; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:07:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:07:45 -0400 Message-Id: <199504190007.UAA04161@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? Cc: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Something that might help in your case against LINUX...... We have recently announced a full suite of serial support for FreeBSD. Our high performance serial controllers run up to T1 speeds (V.35, RS-449) and we support Cisco Serial Protocol, PPP, X.25 and Frame Relay. There is no comparable product for LINUX (the Linux people have been swamping us with requests, but we wanted to use FreeBSD internally because we think it is a much better product). WAN networking is VERY important these days. Dennis Emerging Technologies, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 17:54:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA28876 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:54:07 -0700 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA28869 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:54:02 -0700 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id JAA16494; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:53:54 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id JAA27985; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:53:22 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA21430; Wed, 19 Apr 95 09:53:22 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0s1O8e-000DDnC; Wed, 19 Apr 95 10:01 JST Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 09:48:58 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9504190048.AA17012@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff References: <199504181645.SAA01532@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <199504181947.VAA05525@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >500 Unbekannter Befehl. >221 iaix5.informatik.htw-dresden.de: Die Verbindung wird beendet. >DO WE REALLY WANT THIS? No. (At least, I don't.) SMTP conversation is primarily intended to be program-program communication. There are less requirements to translate them into foreign languages. Even if we try it, the language used must be selected by territory of the *client*, not by that of the SMTP server. On the other hand, there are many users want to see messages from commands or utilities as well as applications in their native languages. Many commercial un*xes provide the mechanism today. I know there is another group of people who want to keep un*x messages in English... I don't want to discuss "which is better?" issue here. I just want to point out there are two different opinions. ... And, the locale mechanism is user configurable. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 18:18:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA29324 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:18:24 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA29318 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:18:23 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (4.1/WDL-4.2) id AA25095; Tue, 18 Apr 95 18:17:47 PDT Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA14644; Tue, 18 Apr 95 21:18:44 EDT Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:18:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: pthreads build problem Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Putting aside the rewindstdin problem, I jumped right into another. Trying to build pthreads-1_60_beta2.tar on my 2.0R system gave me an assembler error on the very first file. I did : >#.configure >#make {delete shell for loop] open as: /usr/tmp/cc006726.s:227: invalid character '_' in opcode *** Error code 1 Has anyone built this package successfuly?? If so how? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 18:54:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA00477 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:54:31 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA00471 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:54:31 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA06088; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:54:16 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504190154.SAA06088@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504190000.AA15602@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> from "Jean-Marc Zucconi" at Apr 19, 95 01:00:14 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2768 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk SOMEONE TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS? > > Current ld.so can't load a shared library that depends on other shared > libraries (cascades). The patch below, which is taken from > NetBSD-current (and due to matthew green ) solve > this problem. I tested it and it seems to work correctly. > What about adopting this change? > > Jean-Marc. > > Index: rtld.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/rtld.c,v > retrieving revision 1.22 > diff -c -r1.22 rtld.c > *** 1.22 1995/03/04 17:46:24 > --- rtld.c 1995/04/18 22:35:20 > *************** > *** 186,191 **** > --- 186,193 ---- > static void maphints __P((void)); > static void unmaphints __P((void)); > > + static int dl_cascade __P((struct so_map *)); > + > static inline int > strcmp (register const char *s1, register const char *s2) > { > *************** > *** 1291,1296 **** > --- 1293,1302 ---- > #endif > return NULL; > } > + > + if (dl_cascade(smp) == 0) > + return NULL; > + > if (LM_PRIVATE(smp)->spd_refcount++ == 0) { > LM_PRIVATE(smp)->spd_flags |= RTLD_DL; > if (reloc_map(smp) < 0) > *************** > *** 1406,1409 **** > --- 1412,1458 ---- > vsprintf(buf, fmt, ap); > (void)write(1, buf, strlen(buf)); > va_end(ap); > + } > + > + static int > + dl_cascade(smp) > + struct so_map *smp; > + { > + struct sod *sodp; > + struct so_map *smp2; > + long next; > + > + next = LD_NEED(smp->som_dynamic); > + > + while (next) { > + sodp = (struct sod *)(LM_LDBASE(smp) + next); > + if ((smp2 = map_object(sodp, smp)) == NULL) { > + #ifdef DEBUG > + xprintf("ld.so: map_object failed on cascaded %s %s (%d.%d): %s\n", > + smp->sod_library ? "library" : "file", smp->sod_name, > + smp->sod_major, smp->sod_minor, strerror(errno)); > + #endif > + /* XXX call generror here? */ > + return 0; > + } > + #if 0 > + /* > + * XXX - this doesn't work for some reason. not > + * at all sure why. -mrg > + */ > + if (dl_cascade(smp2) == 0) > + return 0; > + #endif > + > + if (LM_PRIVATE(smp2)->spd_refcount++ == 0) { > + LM_PRIVATE(smp2)->spd_flags |= RTLD_DL; > + reloc_map(smp2); > + reloc_copy(smp2); > + init_map(smp2, ".init"); > + init_map(smp2, "_init"); > + } > + > + next = sodp->sod_next; > + } > + return 1; > } > > ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ > Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr > Observatoire de Besancon | > F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr > ========================================================================= > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 19:02:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA00731 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:02:37 -0700 Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA00722 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:02:30 -0700 Received: from crl6.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA16886 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:01:55 -0700 Received: by crl6.crl.com id AA25542 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:00:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:00:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Hofmann To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Installation of FreeBSD 2.0 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am currently in the process of trying to install FreeBSD 2.0 on one of my computers. The problem is that it insists that I have some sort of checksum error. How can I identify the corrupt bindist file? From what I've seen of FreeBSD so far, in that little shell, it looks great, and I'd like to fully install it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 19:12:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA01142 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:12:43 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA01136 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:12:32 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id UAA01520; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:16:27 -0600 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:16:27 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504190216.UAA01520@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Julian Elischer Cc: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so In-Reply-To: <199504190154.SAA06088@ref.tfs.com> References: <9504190000.AA15602@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> <199504190154.SAA06088@ref.tfs.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > SOMEONE TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS? Yes, see my follow up article. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 19:44:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA02391 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:44:56 -0700 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA02375 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 19:44:52 -0700 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA17006; Wed, 19 Apr 95 04:44:37 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 04:44:37 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9504190344.AA17006@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: nate@trout.sri.mt.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504182325.RAA01140@trout.sri.MT.net> (message from Nate Williams on Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:25:29 -0600) Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Nate" == Nate Williams writes: >> Current ld.so can't load a shared library that depends on other shared >> libraries (cascades). The patch below, which is taken from >> NetBSD-curren..... > I've got this patch (or something very similar) in my development > sources at home. However, there are much bigger problems with the ld > code that I didn't want to make any additions to the code which might > make the solution to the problems more complicated. > Thanks! Hmmm, do you plan to make your changes *soon*? I really need this, and after all it is only a one line change in rtld.c (if (dl_cascade(smp) == 0) return NULL;) > Nate Jean-Marc ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Observatoire de Besancon | F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 20:10:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA03196 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:10:00 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA03168 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:09:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA11742; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:07:47 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504191407.JAA11742@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:07:46 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504181947.VAA05525@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 18, 95 09:47:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 429 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > By now, there are only three locales in /usr/share/locale: > > ja_JP.EUC lt_LN.ISO8859-1 ru_SU.KOI8-R > Do you know where are their sources ? Or a decompiler ? Say me please if yes, I want to write one for russian Alternate (CP866) table (and/or possibly SysV locale -> BSD locale convertor). Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 20:25:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA03788 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:25:15 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA03782 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:25:10 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id VAA01681; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:29:06 -0600 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:29:06 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504190329.VAA01681@trout.sri.MT.net> To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so In-Reply-To: <9504190344.AA17006@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> References: <199504182325.RAA01140@trout.sri.MT.net> <9504190344.AA17006@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jean-Marc Zucconi writes: > >>>>> "Nate" == Nate Williams writes: > >> Current ld.so can't load a shared library that depends on other shared > >> libraries (cascades). The patch below, which is taken from > >> NetBSD-curren..... > > > I've got this patch (or something very similar) in my development > > sources at home. However, there are much bigger problems with the ld > > code that I didn't want to make any additions to the code which might > > make the solution to the problems more complicated. > > Hmmm, do you plan to make your changes *soon*? I really need this, and > after all it is only a one line change in rtld.c (if (dl_cascade(smp) > == 0) return NULL;) To be honest, I have no idea how long this will take. I've been spending my time trying to understand the code and have spent little time with coding. I doubt anything will happen in the next week or so. What is causing the critical need for this? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 20:26:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA03824 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:26:50 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA03818 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:26:47 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA25869; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:26:27 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA01659; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:25:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:25:55 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504190325.UAA01659@geli.clusternet> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? Cc: rcarter@geli.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In addition to the other observations: 1. Linux has dreadful nfs performance. I can supply ample details. But maybe you should ask the Linux folks. There doesn't appear to be hope anytime soon, either. 2. Linux ncr scsi (up until a month or so ago, maybe still) is broken. It is a sad thing to watch the ncr list. And what about performance 8-0. 3. I am running a 4 cpu cluster with scalapack and FreeBSD-somewhat-current. Just starting to benchmark it. BLACS, PB-BLAS, LAPACK all build and test fine. 4. My company just bid for a project that uses Intel Paragons up till now, but price/performance with FreeBSD and the ASUS TP4-PB is 8x better (for the same performance). 5. I have pvm3, mpich, and nxlib up and running real problems. 6. And hot off the presses: dgemm runs 14-23 MFlops/sec with gcc-i2.6.3. 7. You can get > 5MB/s from commodity disks. (Maybe that weird non-local memory caching idea is not so important ;-) 8. Matt's comments on 100BaseT vs. FDDI performance are true, but the price is not similar. But the upshot is there are at least 2 10MB/s technologies supported. (Thanks to Matt). Succintly, I can build scalable 2k Flops/sec/$ systems using FreeBSD. Not even the most recent J-90 comes close. Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 20:31:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA03979 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:31:08 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA03973 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:31:05 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA26590; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:30:46 -0701 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA01668; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:29:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:29:55 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504190329.UAA01668@geli.clusternet> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, rcarter@geli.com Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I forgot to add, (most important!) Thanks to the FreeBSD team! Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 20:42:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA04175 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:42:07 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA04169 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:42:06 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA06958; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:42:02 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504190342.UAA06958@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: rcarter@geli.com (Russell L. Carter) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, rcarter@geli.com In-Reply-To: <199504190325.UAA01659@geli.clusternet> from "Russell L. Carter" at Apr 18, 95 08:25:55 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1471 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk could you let us know what some of these items are? dgemm (data general emmulator?) BLACS? BLAS? LAPACK? pvm3? mpich? nxlib? julian > > In addition to the other observations: > > 1. Linux has dreadful nfs performance. I can supply ample details. > But maybe you should ask the Linux folks. There doesn't appear to > be hope anytime soon, either. > 2. Linux ncr scsi (up until a month or so ago, maybe still) is broken. > It is a sad thing to watch the ncr list. And what about performance 8-0. > 3. I am running a 4 cpu cluster with scalapack and FreeBSD-somewhat-current. > Just starting to benchmark it. BLACS, PB-BLAS, LAPACK all build and test > fine. > 4. My company just bid for a project that uses Intel Paragons up till now, > but price/performance with FreeBSD and the ASUS TP4-PB is 8x better (for > the same performance). > 5. I have pvm3, mpich, and nxlib up and running real problems. > 6. And hot off the presses: dgemm runs 14-23 MFlops/sec with gcc-i2.6.3. > 7. You can get > 5MB/s from commodity disks. (Maybe that weird non-local > memory caching idea is not so important ;-) > 8. Matt's comments on 100BaseT vs. FDDI performance are true, but the > price is not similar. But the upshot is there are at least 2 10MB/s > technologies supported. (Thanks to Matt). > > Succintly, I can build scalable 2k Flops/sec/$ systems using FreeBSD. Not even > the most recent J-90 comes close. > > Cheers, > Russell > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 20:45:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA04292 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:45:25 -0700 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA04284 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:45:21 -0700 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA17309; Wed, 19 Apr 95 05:45:05 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 05:45:05 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9504190445.AA17309@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: nate@trout.sri.mt.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190329.VAA01681@trout.sri.MT.net> (message from Nate Williams on Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:29:06 -0600) Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Nate" == Nate Williams writes: > Jean-Marc Zucconi writes: >> >>>>> "Nate" == Nate Williams writes: >> >> Current ld.so can't load a shared library that depends on other shared >> >> libraries (cascades). The patch below, which is taken from >> >> NetBSD-curren..... >> >> > I've got this patch (or something very similar) in my development >> > sources at home. However, there are much bigger problems with the ld >> > code that I didn't want to make any additions to the code which might >> > make the solution to the problems more complicated. >> >> Hmmm, do you plan to make your changes *soon*? I really need this, and >> after all it is only a one line change in rtld.c (if (dl_cascade(smp) >> == 0) return NULL;) > To be honest, I have no idea how long this will take. I've been > spending my time trying to understand the code and have spent little > time with coding. I doubt anything will happen in the next week or so. > What is causing the critical need for this? "critical" may be exagerated, but this is the only way to get nTk working. (nTk is a perl interface to Tk 4.0) > Nate Jean-Marc ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Observatoire de Besancon | F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 20:58:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA04573 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:58:34 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA04565 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:58:31 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id WAA01767; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:02:28 -0600 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:02:28 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504190402.WAA01767@trout.sri.MT.net> To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so In-Reply-To: <9504190445.AA17309@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> References: <199504190329.VAA01681@trout.sri.MT.net> <9504190445.AA17309@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Cascade changes to ld.so ] > "critical" may be exagerated, but this is the only way to get nTk > working. (nTk is a perl interface to Tk 4.0) Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't it be better to use TkPerl with Perl 5.0, since that appears to be used and supported? Then again, it may suffer the same symptoms. (I ask because I'm interested in building GUI Perl apps, and Perl5 w/TkPerl seems to offer the best merge of new technology with a supported product. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 21:37:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA05353 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:37:03 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA05347 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:37:02 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA05763; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:36:41 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA01801; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:36:08 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:36:08 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504190436.VAA01801@geli.clusternet> To: julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |dgemm (data general emmulator?) General Matrix Multiply. The foundation for modern numerical algorithms (1990+). There are several thousand pages of mathematical literature on the subject, but the source code lives at http://netlib2.cs.utk.edu/liblist.html Check out the blas section. |BLACS? BLAS? LAPACK? Basic Linear Algebra Communication Subroutines Basic Linear Algebra Subroutines Linear Algebra PACK (this is the place to find the state-of-the-art) All available from netlib. These are blocked routines that just love to be matched up with caches and vector registers. |pvm3? mpich? nxlib? PVM3== parallel virtural machine, available at netlib MPICH== Message Passing Interface standard (CHameleon) available from ftp://info.mcs.anl.gov/pub/mpi NXLib is a neat library that emulates Intel Paragon NX message passing library calls. It's available from ftpbode.informatik.tu-muenchen.de | |julian Regards, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 22:19:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA06364 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:19:33 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA06359 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:19:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:19:33 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> To: fs, hackers, hardware Subject: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. but one thing I'm not sure about: what is a good way for the devfs to appear? I personally favour something hierachical, such as: /devices/disks/sd0/all /devices/disks/sd0/FAT/all /* I suppose it could be called C: */ /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/all /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/a /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/b /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/c /devices/disks/sd0/99/all /* MACH but not recognised */ /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/all /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/A /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/B /devices/disks/sd1/all /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/all /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/b /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/c /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/d /devices/disks/wd0/all /devices/disks/wd0/BSD/all /devices/disks/wd0/BSD/a but maybe the following might be as good: (same disk) (P=PARTITION, S=SLICE) /devices/sd0 /devices/sd0P0 /devices/sd0P1 /devices/sd0P1Sa /devices/sd0P1Sb /devices/sd0P1Sc /devices/sd0P2 /devices/sd0P3 /devices/sd0P3Sa /devices/sd0P3Sb /devices/sd1 /devices/sd1P0 /devices/sd1 /devices/sd1Sa /* no MBR? */ /devices/sd1Sb /devices/sd1Sc /devices/wd0 /devices/wd0P0Sa Whichever scheme is chosen, I expect a link (or symlink) from /devices/scsi/bus0/targ0/lun0/all->/devices/disks/sd0/all or something similar e.g. /devices/scsi/b0t0l0 -> ../../disks/sd0 (?) or /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_all hardlink to /devices/sd0 (?) /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P0 hardlink to /devices/sd0P0 (?) /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P1Sa hardlink to /devices/sd0P1Sa (?) remember: you can only hardlink devices not directories you can symlink anything but it takes a longer lookup sequence. (also symlinks are not supported yet) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 23:03:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA07066 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:03:36 -0700 Received: from griffin.itc.gu.edu.au (griffin.itc.gu.edu.au [132.234.1.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA07060 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:03:34 -0700 Received: from pegasus.itc.gu.edu.au by griffin.itc.gu.edu.au with SMTP id AA17622 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 19 Apr 95 16:03:18 +1000 Received: (from greg@localhost) by pegasus.itc.gu.edu.au (8.6.10/8.6.10) id QAA13328 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:03:17 +1000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:03:17 +1000 From: Greg Watson Message-Id: <199504190603.QAA13328@pegasus.itc.gu.edu.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Russell, > In addition to the other observations: > ... > > Succintly, I can build scalable 2k Flops/sec/$ systems using FreeBSD. Not even > the most recent J-90 comes close. > Sounds like you've ported almost all of our IBM SP2 environment to FreeBSD. Just need to get LoadLeveler up and running and we can chuck out AIX! Whoopee! (I wonder how much of the 5Gflops we'd really get....) I'm sure our parallel BLAS users would be most happy too... Cheers, Greg _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Greg Watson, Manager _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Queensland Parallel Supercomputing Facility _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ Griffith University, Nathan, Qld 4111, Aus. _/_/_/ _/ / _/ Phone: +61-7-875-5543 Fax: +61-7-875-6650 _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ EMail: G.Watson@gu.edu.au From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 23:32:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA08126 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:32:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA08111 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:31:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Apr 95 21:29:06 MDT." <199504190329.VAA01681@trout.sri.MT.net> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:31:56 -0700 Message-ID: <8105.798273116@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > To be honest, I have no idea how long this will take. I've been > spending my time trying to understand the code and have spent little > time with coding. I doubt anything will happen in the next week or so. > What is causing the critical need for this? Certain impending release plans. I would be happy if you could just commit it and proceed with your own work in parallel. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 23:44:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA08628 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:44:33 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA08608 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:44:00 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA01137; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:41:25 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504190641.XAA01137@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2395 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Should this really be on 3 lists??? ] > > I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. > but one thing I'm not sure about: > > what is a good way for the devfs to appear? > > I personally favour something hierachical, > such as: I think you are confused about a few things, or at least from looking at this it leaves me confused:-(. > > /devices/disks/sd0/all Okay, that is the entire disk. > /devices/disks/sd0/FAT/all /* I suppose it could be called C: */ Ah, is that the FAT in slice 0 (DOS would call it partition 0, and it would *probably* be the C: drive). Or is this something else? You do realize there can be more than 1 primary FAT partition per volume, though DOS won't grok more than 1 primary active at a time. > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/all == BSD/c??? And what happens when I have more than 1 BSD slice on a disk (this is one of the reasons for the slice code after all). > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/a > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/b > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/c > /devices/disks/sd0/99/all /* MACH but not recognised */ > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/all > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/A > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/B Is this an extended partition? If so, extended partitions are not DOS specific. > > but maybe the following might be as good: (same disk) > (P=PARTITION, S=SLICE) I think you have transposed our definitions. A ``Slice'' is either one of the 4 primary MBR entries, or 1 of the 26 (is that the right number Bruce?) logical volumes in an extended MBR entry. > > /devices/sd0 > /devices/sd0P0 ... > /devices/wd0P0Sa > > > Whichever scheme is chosen, I expect a link (or symlink) from > /devices/scsi/bus0/targ0/lun0/all->/devices/disks/sd0/all > or something similar > e.g. > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0 -> ../../disks/sd0 (?) > or > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_all hardlink to /devices/sd0 (?) > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P0 hardlink to /devices/sd0P0 (?) > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P1Sa hardlink to /devices/sd0P1Sa (?) And who creates these symlinks/hardlinks? And why do we need them? How much memory does all this devfs data structure take up? > remember: > you can only hardlink devices not directories > you can symlink anything but it takes a longer lookup sequence. > (also symlinks are not supported yet) :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 18 23:59:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA08836 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:59:49 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA08830 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:59:48 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA07465; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:59:03 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504190659.XAA07465@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: G.Watson@gu.edu.au (Greg Watson) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190603.QAA13328@pegasus.itc.gu.edu.au> from "Greg Watson" at Apr 19, 95 04:03:17 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 616 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Sounds like you've ported almost all of our IBM SP2 environment to FreeBSD. > Just need to get LoadLeveler up and running and we can chuck out AIX! Whoopee! > (I wonder how much of the 5Gflops we'd really get....) I'm sure our parallel > BLAS users would be most happy too... Jordan, wouldn't you say this shoud be noted and broadcast around a bit? maybe these guys can tell us some newsgroups that we should 'announce' it's availability on..... I'd love to see FreeBSD becoming a standard OS for universities to do this sort of thing on...... :) > > _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ EMail: G.Watson@gu.edu.au From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 00:22:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09205 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:22:28 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09182 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:22:15 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07024; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:22:06 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA05717 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:22:04 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA07820 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:59:45 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504190659.IAA07820@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:59:45 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504191407.JAA11742@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 19, 95 09:07:46 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 387 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > Do you know where are their sources ? Or a decompiler ? Say me please > if yes, I want to write one for russian Alternate (CP866) table (and/or possibly > SysV locale -> BSD locale convertor). Andrew or Garrett? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 00:22:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09264 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:22:52 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09181 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:22:15 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07021; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:22:05 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA05714; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:22:03 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA07791; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:57:57 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504190657.IAA07791@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff To: ache@astral.msk.su (Andrey A. Chernov Black Mage) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:57:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" at Apr 19, 95 02:12:36 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1169 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage wrote: > > In message <199504181947.VAA05525@uriah.heep.sax.de> J Wunsch writes: > > >500 Unbekannter Befehl. > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >quit > >221 iaix5.informatik.htw-dresden.de: Die Verbindung wird beendet. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Is is error to set locale environment for ftpd. It's been smtp, btw. Doesn't matter, it's just AIX... :) (The fingerd responding in [bad] german is in the same boat, and i guess there will be way more gotchas of this sort in it.) > >By now, there are only three locales in /usr/share/locale: > > >ja_JP.EUC lt_LN.ISO8859-1 ru_SU.KOI8-R > > >You'll have to set it to ``lt_LN.ISO8859-1'' for germany. > > No. Do 'make hierarchy' at top level and you got needed symlinks. Hmm, so it's strange why they are not here. I've once started with the feb95 snap, and have done several make install's since then. Either it has been gratuitously removed at some time, or it's not properly reinstalled. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 00:22:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09271 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:22:53 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09235 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:22:41 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07005; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:22:02 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA05708 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:22:02 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA07748 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:50:43 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504190650.IAA07748@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:50:43 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504182116.OAA04916@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 02:16:49 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 830 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > > work on the price of the WS vs the Price of a good PC > and point out you can get free CDs (: ... and good support. :) Since you're now even a core-team member (Satoshi), i guess if you're yelling HEEEELP! here since there's something totally hosed, you'll get the definite answer to your problem normally in less than 12 hours. And this is done without the commercially-usual first attempt to deny that there might be a problem. :-/ (``How do you turn off the machine each evening?'' ``Are you sure your network connector has been plugged in when you've got the timeouts?'' ``Please, go and reinstall the software and see if the problem persists!'') -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 00:30:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09661 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:30:53 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09652 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:30:28 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA10843 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:20:24 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:20:23 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA00572; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:10:42 +0400 To: "Serge A. Babkin" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <199504191407.JAA11742@hq.icb.chel.su> In-Reply-To: <199504191407.JAA11742@hq.icb.chel.su>; from "Serge A. Babkin" at Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:07:46 -0500 (GMT-0500) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:10:42 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff Lines: 27 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1087 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504191407.JAA11742@hq.icb.chel.su> Serge A. Babkin writes: >> By now, there are only three locales in /usr/share/locale: >> >> ja_JP.EUC lt_LN.ISO8859-1 ru_SU.KOI8-R >> >Do you know where are their sources ? Or a decompiler ? Say me please >if yes, I want to write one for russian Alternate (CP866) table (and/or possibly >SysV locale -> BSD locale convertor). You can look in mklocale/data and colldef/data. I doubt, that converter will be easy to implement, we have different scheme. If you'll write CP866 locale, please send me for review. CP866 keyboard already exists. BTW, I think CP866 is somewhat useless because RELCOM Internet uses koi8, so you need in/out decoders for mail messages in this case. But because CP866 is live standard, it is acceptable. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 00:32:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09769 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:32:43 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA09756 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:32:38 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA00763 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:25:35 GMT Message-Id: <199504190025.AAA00763@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Installing VoxWare sound drivers Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:25:33 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Ray Cummins said: > There's something I've been banging my head against for a few days > now - I was wondering if someone could help me with this: > > My ultimate goal is to get my SoundBlaster 16 to work with vat. (I' m > running FreeBSD 2.0.) So far, the SoundBlaster 16 works with rplayd and > rplay, and vat (v3.4) runs but doesn't make any sound - the name of the Well, I have the latest sound driver (V30) up and running over here with my GUS . We don't support vat with the SB & SB16 cards mostly due to : (1) Not having sources for vat (2) The VoxWare driver is or was ill designed to support switching back and for plackback and recording. The GUS and the PAS16 support dual DMA channels so this is not a problem for we treat the the GUS as being two separate devices when the card is operated in dual dma mode. The same applies for the PAS16. In the future, there will be an application written by Jim Lowe which will interface between vat and the driver which will allow people to use vat. vat has an i/o socket interface so that other applications can receive or send voice data. Of course, when the sources for vat get release all this driver and application glue will be unecessary. When will the sources for vat will be released ? Beats me , it has been over two years in the coming : If things go well over this week Jim Lowe and I will release the new sound driver sometime this weekend. Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 00:33:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09845 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:33:20 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA09835 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:33:18 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA07567; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:33:09 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504190733.AAA07567@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190641.XAA01137@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 18, 95 11:41:25 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4841 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [Should this really be on 3 lists??? ] well I wante dthe widest group :^| > > > > I think you are confused about a few things, or at least from looking > at this it leaves me confused:-(. I basically want to know how people think devices (e.g. disks) should be represented.... how would YOU do it if you had the ideal oportunity.. I may not be able to do everything people want but I'd like to KNOW what they think would be best.. A real-life example is: 4031783168 0 dr-xr-xr-x 4 root wheel 13 Dec 31 1969 /devfs/ 4031595520 0 drwx---rwx 4 root staff 29 Dec 31 1969 /devfs//disks 4031796480 0 dr-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 16 Dec 31 1969 /devfs//disks/rfloppy 4030327040 0 crw-r--r-- 2 root wheel 9, 0 Dec 31 1969 /devfs//disks/rfloppy/fd0.1440 4031798400 0 dr-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 16 Dec 31 1969 /devfs//disks/floppy 4030326528 0 brw-r--r-- 2 root wheel 2, 0 Dec 31 1969 /devfs//disks/floppy/fd0.1440 note that if the disks had been 1.2MB, the names would have said so.. > > > > > /devices/disks/sd0/all > Okay, that is the entire disk. yes > > > /devices/disks/sd0/FAT/all /* I suppose it could be called C: */ > Ah, is that the FAT in slice 0 (DOS would call it partition 0, and it > would *probably* be the C: drive). Or is this something else? You > do realize there can be more than 1 primary FAT partition per volume, > though DOS won't grok more than 1 primary active at a time. ok, ok, that's quibling.. what I want to know is what you think about the general scheme.. we can tweek it if needed.. > > > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/all > == BSD/c??? > And what happens when I have more than 1 BSD slice on a disk (this is > one of the reasons for the slice code after all). ok, ok, BSD0, BSD1, etc > > > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/a > > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/b > > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/c > > /devices/disks/sd0/99/all /* MACH but not recognised */ > > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/all > > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/A > > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/B > > Is this an extended partition? If so, extended partitions are not DOS > specific. I don't really care.. it could read: /devices/disks/sd0/EXT1/BSD2/all /devices/disks/sd0/EXT1/BSD2/a /devices/disks/sd0/EXT1/BSD2/b /devices/disks/sd0/EXT1/FAT2/A what I want is people's ideas on WHAT shouldbe there.. The naming is not implimented yet because it would be the responsibility of the SLICE code to do the naming.. the DEVFS doesn't care.. it just shows what it's told to show by the device driver (or the slice code in this case). > > I think you have transposed our definitions. A ``Slice'' is either one of > the 4 primary MBR entries, or 1 of the 26 (is that the right number Bruce?) > logical volumes in an extended MBR entry. could be.. I'm not fussed by it.. I want Ideas.. > > > > > /devices/sd0 > > /devices/sd0P0 > ... > > /devices/wd0P0Sa > > > > > > Whichever scheme is chosen, I expect a link (or symlink) from > > /devices/scsi/bus0/targ0/lun0/all->/devices/disks/sd0/all > > or something similar > > e.g. > > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0 -> ../../disks/sd0 (?) > > or > > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_all hardlink to /devices/sd0 (?) > > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P0 hardlink to /devices/sd0P0 (?) > > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P1Sa hardlink to /devices/sd0P1Sa (?) > > And who creates these symlinks/hardlinks? And why do we need them? because some people want a constant way of addressing scsi1,target2,lun0, partition b, that won't go away or change if some OTHER device fails to probe.. a device can easily have two names, one of which is invariant.... > How much memory does all this devfs data structure take up? basically, in this version, each node takes.. the size of the name in ascii.. + 36 bytes + 80 bytes + N x 32 bytes where N is nearly always 1 let's say 160 bytes that seems a lot, but consider.. The next version will allow a more compact representation, so that some devices (e.g. pty[0-N] will be 'algorythmically' stored.. i.e. storage will exist as long as there is a vnode associated with it, (it's open). If you open 2, only 3 will be displayed.. (there will always be one more than are in use, so that there is one to open..) remember there are only nodes for devices and slices that ACTUALLY EXIST. /dev/today contains ALL POSSIBLE devices.. i.e. many more.. for my laptop.. there would be: the equivalent of wd0a wd0b wd0c wd0d wd0e wd0f rwd0a rwd0b rwd0c rwd0d rwd0e rwd0f pty0 (if you have none open) tty00 tty01 speaker lpr fd0 rfd0 vty{0,1,2,3} mem, kmem drum? (does it exist any more?) I'm running out here... (maybe I missed some..) plus a couple of directories let's say it was 6k of data.... I think that's being very realistic > > > (also symlinks are not supported yet) > > :-(. I said YET :) > Rod julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 00:55:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10479 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:55:43 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA10473 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:55:40 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA01451; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:52:59 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504190752.AAA01451@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190733.AAA07567@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 00:33:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2467 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > [Should this really be on 3 lists??? ] > well I wante dthe widest group :^| Okay, but one of them bounced :-( > > I think you are confused about a few things, or at least from looking > > at this it leaves me confused:-(. > > I basically want to know how people think devices (e.g. disks) > should be represented.... > how would YOU do it if you had the ideal oportunity.. > I may not be able to do everything people want but I'd like to KNOW > what they think would be best.. I take it that you mean flat vs hierarchial. How about both :-) :: mount -t devfs -o flat /dev mount -t devfs -o hier /dev I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev (with possible exceptions for /dev/fd/*). This is a religious issue, I have spoken my religion. > > what I want is people's ideas on WHAT shouldbe there.. > The naming is not implimented yet because it would be the > responsibility of the SLICE code to do the naming.. the DEVFS doesn't care.. > it just shows what it's told to show by the device driver (or the slice > code in this case). Oh, in that case my -o flat/hier would intrude all over the place, oh well, guess that is out :-(. > > > > And who creates these symlinks/hardlinks? And why do we need them? > because some people want a constant way of > addressing scsi1,target2,lun0, partition b, that won't go away > or change if some OTHER device fails to probe.. This won't work if you use bus0, bus1, what happens if I pull the controller for bus 0 out of the machine. I think this is best left to the kernel config process. Even replacing bus0 with say ahc0 might not work if I had both ahc0 and ahc1 and pulled out ahc0 :-(. > a device can easily have two names, one of which is invariant.... They are always variant via config, though it is now possible at least to nail them down if you are carefull. > > How much memory does all this devfs data structure take up? > > basically, in this version, each node takes.. > > the size of the name in ascii.. > + 36 bytes > + 80 bytes > + N x 32 bytes where N is nearly always 1 > let's say 160 bytes > that seems a lot, but consider.. Sounds good, even worst caseing it find /dev | wc yields 512 devices, so that is only 81K bytes, I can easily live with that, and since this is way way overkill we are safe. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 01:04:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA10737 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:04:36 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA10685 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:03:12 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA22093 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:53:03 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:53:02 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA00752; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:51:51 +0400 To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <199504190657.IAA07791@uriah.heep.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <199504190657.IAA07791@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch at Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:57:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:51:50 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff Lines: 22 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 882 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504190657.IAA07791@uriah.heep.sax.de> J Wunsch writes: >> >By now, there are only three locales in /usr/share/locale: >> >> >ja_JP.EUC lt_LN.ISO8859-1 ru_SU.KOI8-R >> >> >You'll have to set it to ``lt_LN.ISO8859-1'' for germany. >> >> No. Do 'make hierarchy' at top level and you got needed symlinks. >Hmm, so it's strange why they are not here. I've once started with >the feb95 snap, and have done several make install's since then. >Either it has been gratuitously removed at some time, or it's not >properly reinstalled. Make install don't make hierarchy. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 01:33:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA11414 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:33:50 -0700 Received: from edcom.com (edcom.com [140.174.173.185]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA11408 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:33:47 -0700 Received: (from edward@localhost) by edcom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA28655; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:33:37 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:33:37 -0700 From: Edward Wang Message-Id: <199504190833.BAA28655@edcom.com> To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: Buslogic? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk NCR810: It's a particularly good controller for FreeBSD and NetBSD, because of the great driver by Stefan Esser and Wolf Stanglmeier. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 01:37:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA12221 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:37:32 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12213 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:37:23 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA28041; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:30:55 +1000 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:30:55 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504190830.SAA28041@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I take it that you mean flat vs hierarchial. How about both :-) :: >mount -t devfs -o flat /dev >mount -t devfs -o hier /dev Programs should use canonical names so the user can't decide everything here. >I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev (with possible >exceptions for /dev/fd/*). This is a religious issue, I have spoken my >religion. I like it fairly flat. There certainly shouldn't be subdirectories for pieces of one device. >> The naming is not implimented yet because it would be the >> responsibility of the SLICE code to do the naming.. the DEVFS doesn't care.. >> it just shows what it's told to show by the device driver (or the slice >> code in this case). /dev/driver_name/all_devices_handled_by_this_drive_in_one_directory is easiest for drivers, but not quite what is wanted by programs. How should ps find and name tty devices? There aren't enough letters for a 2 letter namespace. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 01:43:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA12314 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:43:17 -0700 Received: from mpp.com (dialup-1-12.gw.umn.edu [134.84.101.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12307 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:43:11 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA04273; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:42:28 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199504190842.DAA04273@mpp.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:42:28 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190641.XAA01137@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 18, 95 11:41:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 644 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. > > but one thing I'm not sure about: > > > > what is a good way for the devfs to appear? > > > > I personally favour something hierachical, > > such as: > > And who creates these symlinks/hardlinks? And why do we need them? > How much memory does all this devfs data structure take up? I have a question: what does the devfs file system get me, and why would I ever want to use it? From what I've seen so far, it just looks like a complicated way to access my /dev/* files. -- Mike Pritchard pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 02:03:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA13108 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:03:47 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA12963 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:01:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA12839; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:58:22 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504190958.OAA12839@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:58:21 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1524 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. > but one thing I'm not sure about: > > what is a good way for the devfs to appear? > > I personally favour something hierachical, > such as: > > /devices/disks/sd0/all ^^^^^^^^ Isn't it too long ? One of things I like in Unix is that the often used commands and directories have short 2- or 3-letter name. It's only my IMHO so you obviously may ignore it. > /devices/disks/sd0/FAT/all /* I suppose it could be called C: */ > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/all ^^^ What if we have 2 BSD parititons? I'm able to point at least one reason for doing that. It's convenient if I have the system on the 1st partition and archieves, extended utilities and other thigs like these on the 2nd partition. Really I have DOS on the same drive and sometimes I need to have a lot of DOS space or to install temporary some other operating system. In such case I merely backup my 2nd BSD partiton, remove it, intstall what-is-needed, use it, remove what-is-not-needed-more and restore my 2nd partition. I don't have to reinstall the whole system, I just need to add a filesystem. Really I used this strategy with SCO and I have installed FreeBSD for the first time in a "temporary space" of such kind. So probably it will be better to have additional level of directories /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/1/all or names like /devices/disks/sd0/BSD-1/all Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 02:38:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA13685 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:38:22 -0700 Received: from relay.philips.nl (relay.philips.nl [130.144.65.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA13679 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:38:17 -0700 Received: from muxgw1.ms.philips.nl ([130.144.90.6]) by relay.philips.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9-950414) with SMTP id LAA00260 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:37:34 +0200 Received: by muxgw1.ms.philips.nl (5.57/Ultrix2.4-C) id AA26361; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:21:43 +0300 Received: by mmra1.ms.philips.nl (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28837; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:35:45 +0200 From: gvrooij@mmra1.ms.philips.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <9504190935.AA28837@mmra1.ms.philips.nl> Subject: gated question To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:35:44 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1252 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We also mailed this question to the gated list, mut perhaps here are also ppl that have an answer. We have a freebsd based router. because of the environment we are forced to only use rip. For simplicity, assume we have 2 interfaces, say ed0 and ed1. On ed0 we want the network x.y.z.0 to be always announced with metric 2. On the ed1 side (connected to the x.y.a.0 network), we've got a bunch of terminal servers all announcing hosts in the x.y.z.0 net on a per host basis. So x.y.z.2 sometimes show up being announced from x.y.a.10, and sometimes on x.y.a.11. So gated needs to listed to incoming rip packets from one of the terminal servers on the ed1 side, but should *always* announce the complete network on th ed0 side (even when there are no x.y.z.0 hosts announced at all on the ed1 side). We've tried a number of things, but in vain. The only way the x.y.z.0 route is announced is when it is added in a static { } table. But then gated refuses to look at rip packets on the ed1 side (whether or not the static entry is having a noinstall option or not). So probably it all boils down to the question how to have gated always announce a particular route without having it declared in a static {} list. Hope you can help me! -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 02:51:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA14089 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:51:25 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA14078 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:51:14 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA04916; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:15:14 +0800 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:15:13 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <9504182253.AA15689@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > A workstation is any graphics capable machine not running an Intel > processer. 8-). *whew*, good to hear that. I've been pushing Am486-based FreeBSD "workstations" around here. :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 02:55:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA14222 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:55:00 -0700 Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA14212 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 02:54:45 -0700 Received: from utis156.cs.utwente.nl by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (5.0/csrelayMX-SVR4_1.0/RB) id AA00536; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:54:42 --100 Received: by utis156.cs.utwente.nl (4.1/RBCS-1.0.1) id AA02455; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:54:30 +0200 To: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:51:50 +0400 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:54:29 +0200 Message-Id: <2454.798285269@utis156.cs.utwente.nl> From: Andras Olah content-length: 408 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:51:50 +0400, "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" wrote: > >> >You'll have to set it to ``lt_LN.ISO8859-1'' for germany. > >> > >> No. Do 'make hierarchy' at top level and you got needed symlinks. Just a little comment: my make world died at making the hierarchy target. The make distrib-dirs in etc which creates the locale symlinks failed because the symlinks existed already. Andras From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 03:17:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA14686 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:17:12 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA14679 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:17:10 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA28714; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:17:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA00268; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199504191017.DAA00268@corbin.Root.COM> To: Bruce Evans cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 18:30:55 +1000." <199504190830.SAA28041@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:17:04 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev (with possible >>exceptions for /dev/fd/*). This is a religious issue, I have spoken my >>religion. > >I like it fairly flat. There certainly shouldn't be subdirectories for >pieces of one device. I agree with Bruce. I would have agreed with Rod, but the simple fact is that our /dev directory is getting very large and bloated, and this will only get worse. Perhaps /dev/disks/* and /dev/ttys/*, etc, might be a way to organize things (in other words, by device class). I prefer to not minimize the number of levels as much as possible, while still providing some organization. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 03:19:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA14729 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:19:35 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA14718 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:18:52 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA04972; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:56:20 +0800 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:56:16 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <199504190325.UAA01659@geli.clusternet> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, Russell L. Carter wrote: > > 1. Linux has dreadful nfs performance. I can supply ample details. > But maybe you should ask the Linux folks. There doesn't appear to > be hope anytime soon, either. Still?!? Geez, I was "reassured" by several Linuxers that the network code has been "vastly improved" for the 1.2.x kernel. I was getting a whopping 19K/sec on NFS writes with the 1.1.80 kernel, and that's when I switched camps. :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 03:23:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA14944 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:23:48 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA14937 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:23:44 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA28734; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:23:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA00333; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:23:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199504191023.DAA00333@corbin.Root.COM> To: Bruce Evans cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 03:17:04 PDT." <199504191017.DAA00268@corbin.Root.COM> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:23:41 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev (with possible >>>exceptions for /dev/fd/*). This is a religious issue, I have spoken my >>>religion. >> >>I like it fairly flat. There certainly shouldn't be subdirectories for >>pieces of one device. > > I agree with Bruce. I would have agreed with Rod, but the simple fact is >that our /dev directory is getting very large and bloated, and this will only >get worse. Perhaps /dev/disks/* and /dev/ttys/*, etc, might be a way to >organize things (in other words, by device class). I prefer to not minimize ^^^^^^ Yikes! ...I edited this message in too much of a hurry! ...I meant "prefer to minimize". >the number of levels as much as possible, while still providing some >organization. > >-DG -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 03:54:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA15884 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:54:19 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA15878 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:54:18 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id DAA08184; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:54:11 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504191054.DAA08184@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Mike Pritchard) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190842.DAA04273@mpp.com> from "Mike Pritchard" at Apr 19, 95 03:42:28 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 715 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have a question: what does the devfs file system get me, and > why would I ever want to use it? From what I've seen so far, it just > looks like a complicated way to access my /dev/* files. > You might want to use it if it always had the right major and minor numbers for devices that were dynamically added in.. one time it might be major 35 and the next time you boot, it could be major 37 because you loaded the new WIZBANG driver as well. it also means that disk slices can be shown only when they actually exist on the disk.. /dev is never wrong..because each entry is set up by the very driver that runs it.. (plus lots of other reasons to do with 'upcoming' stuff.) think 'dynamic' julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 04:00:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA15952 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 04:00:05 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA15933 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:59:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:47:56 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, rcarter@geli.com Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <199504190325.UAA01659@geli.clusternet> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, Russell L. Carter wrote: > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:25:55 -0700 > From: Russell L. Carter > To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org > Cc: rcarter@geli.com > Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? > > In addition to the other observations: > > 1. Linux has dreadful nfs performance. I can supply ample details. > But maybe you should ask the Linux folks. There doesn't appear to > be hope anytime soon, either. Do you mean client or the server side? > 2. Linux ncr scsi (up until a month or so ago, maybe still) is broken. > It is a sad thing to watch the ncr list. And what about performance 8-0. I'm running Linux on Intel SP3G (Saturn 4 chipset) machine with no problems. Performance is noticeably much higher than on the Adaptec 1542C. I'm running 1.2.5 It such only in the scheduler and serial IMHO Somebody could explain to me how to make cursor to appear at the _lower_ end of the char. position in the FreeBSD? (sc0) How to switch between consoles in vt0? AGL > 3. I am running a 4 cpu cluster with scalapack and FreeBSD-somewhat-current. > Just starting to benchmark it. BLACS, PB-BLAS, LAPACK all build and test > fine. > 4. My company just bid for a project that uses Intel Paragons up till now, > but price/performance with FreeBSD and the ASUS TP4-PB is 8x better (for > the same performance). > 5. I have pvm3, mpich, and nxlib up and running real problems. > 6. And hot off the presses: dgemm runs 14-23 MFlops/sec with gcc-i2.6.3. > 7. You can get > 5MB/s from commodity disks. (Maybe that weird non-local > memory caching idea is not so important ;-) > 8. Matt's comments on 100BaseT vs. FDDI performance are true, but the > price is not similar. But the upshot is there are at least 2 10MB/s > technologies supported. (Thanks to Matt). > > Succintly, I can build scalable 2k Flops/sec/$ systems using FreeBSD. Not even > the most recent J-90 comes close. > > Cheers, > Russell > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 04:43:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA17001 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 04:43:58 -0700 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA16992 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 04:43:36 -0700 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA19713; Wed, 19 Apr 95 13:42:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 13:42:26 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9504191242.AA19713@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: nate@trout.sri.mt.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190402.WAA01767@trout.sri.MT.net> (message from Nate Williams on Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:02:28 -0600) Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Nate" == Nate Williams writes: > [ Cascade changes to ld.so ] >> "critical" may be exagerated, but this is the only way to get nTk >> working. (nTk is a perl interface to Tk 4.0) > Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't it be better to use TkPerl with Perl > 5.0, since that appears to be used and supported? Then again, it may > suffer the same symptoms. (I ask because I'm interested in building GUI > Perl apps, and Perl5 w/TkPerl seems to offer the best merge of new > technology with a supported product. TkPerl is no more supported. The author has no time to work on it. People are now switching to nTk. Seems to be the new way to go. In addition, all I got with TkPerl is core dumps :-( > Nate Jean-Marc. ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Observatoire de Besancon | F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 04:55:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA17183 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 04:55:02 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA17172 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 04:54:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:52:39 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <199504182132.OAA19525@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, Jeffrey Hsu wrote: > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:32:16 -0700 > From: Jeffrey Hsu > To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? > > Oh for heaven's sake. Just invoke NIH and wish Linux away. You are at > an academic institution after all. Seriously, just stress how good > the BSD source base is over some home-grown Minix kernel and non-BSD > TCP/IP. Making a case for BSD should not be hard, especially since I see no great things in BSD TCP/IP. It's nice to have _non BSD_ inplementation, because otherwise you can easily get trapped in some bug you can't fix just humble opinion of the mere user. AGL > many of these professors, scratch that, all of them, the old ones at > least, all used to run BSD on their VAXes and SunOS on their suns. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 05:38:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA18046 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 05:38:23 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA18040 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 05:38:22 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08407; Wed, 19 Apr 95 07:36:37 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504191236.AA08407@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:36:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190007.UAA04161@mail.htp.com> from "dennis" at Apr 18, 95 08:07:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 941 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Something that might help in your case against LINUX...... > > We have recently announced a full suite of serial support for FreeBSD. Our > high performance serial controllers run up to T1 speeds (V.35, RS-449) and > we support > Cisco Serial Protocol, PPP, X.25 and Frame Relay. There is no comparable > product for LINUX (the Linux people have been swamping us with requests, but > we wanted to use FreeBSD internally because we think it is a much better > product). WAN networking is VERY important these days. Hi Dennis, Damn it, some of us could *use* this sort of information, if only we knew about it!!!!!! :-) !!! Can information on your products be included with FreeBSD, or at least a pointer to your products? ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 05:44:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA18156 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 05:44:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA18150 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 05:43:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: core@freefall.cdrom.com cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 05:43:58 -0700 Message-ID: <18149.798295438@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On last Thursday, the 13th of April, we happened to have enough core team members together (7) in one place to warrant a meeting. The meeting was somewhat hastily convened, and some of the members who were forced to miss it due to insufficient warning have since expressed concern that future meetings not be held in such an ad-hoc fashion. This wish is understandable and will be respected, so any future core team meetings of a quasi-official nature will be planned at least 3 months in advance, to be held in whichever country is most convenient at the time (core members will still be expected to get themselves there by whatever means they are capable of arranging for themselves, at least until we establish a travel budget). Such complaints about the lack of proper procedure aside, a number of items of importance were discussed and decided, and though these minutes have been somewhat delayed in getting out (for which I take full responsibility), and this has in turn raised some ire in core, I certainly hope we can put all of that behind us now and simply focus on the issues raised herein. Since much of the criticism I've received over the last few days has centered on "closed door decision making" and the generally unpleasant image of a small "star chamber" of core members making all the important decisions, I'm also widening the distribution of this from "core" to "core and hackers" - all parties are thus free to comment. NOTE: Julian was the "scribe" for this meeting and had only a small notepad. His notes were thus, of necessity, somewhat condensed. Since some of those notes didn't make much sense out of the context of having actually been there, I went to additional lengths to provide more background information from my own memories of the meeting. Any errors in content so introduced are mine alone. - Jordan Here we go.. ---------------------------------------------------------- Title: Minutes from the FreeBSD core team meeting of April 13th, 1995. Attendees: David Greenman Gary Palmer Jordan K. Hubbard Julian Elischer[*] Justin Gibbs Poul-Henning Kamp Satoshi Asami Soren Schmidt [*] Julian's sort of quasi-core, and would be a full member if only we could manage to twist his arm far enough in that direction. :) Agenda: 1. Core team structure for releases and general "peacetime" operation. 2. 2.1 Objectives 3. 2.0.5? 4. 2.1 Release date AGENDA: 1. Core team structure ------------------------------- Jordan opens with comments to the effect that we're still running around without clear zones of responsibility in certain critical areas and thus a number of releases (e.g. *all* of them so far) have gone out with portions half-baked and/or generally broken. He calls for the appointment of "managers" to break ties in situations where the individual engineers cannot reach consensus, or are about to let something vital drop on the floor. Justin follows-up to this with comments to the effect that this is what has happened with his proposed /sys/dev changes - he needs to move his AIC code from the gnu directory into the main tree now due to copyright changes but has no idea of where it should go or who to ask for some sort of "final decision." Scattered group discussion on what sorts of roles there are to be played in the construction of a truly *good* release, and which individuals might be entrusted with final decision-making capabilities in those areas. The following provisional "appointments" are made: System Architect[1]: David Standards Guard[2]: vacant (terry?) Resource Mgr[3]: Jordan + ? Release Mgr[4]: Poul Release Engineeer[5]: long-term vacant, Jordan for 2.1R Test Mgr[6]: Julian Test Engineer[7]: Rod Public Relations & Marketing[8]: Jordan Ports Mgr[9]: Satoshi Support Mgr[10]: vacant (possibly PAY someone) Doc Mgr[11]: John Fieber + ? NetBSD Liason/Industrial Spy[12]: vacant Linux Liason/Industrial Spy[13]: vacant Source code tree god[14]: Rod? Detail for above: [1]. Has overall control of the technical side of things. Final arbiter of what goes in the tree in times of dispute. [2]. Needs to track standards like POSIX and XPG, doing the work and reporting back to the other "managers" when something in their area of responsibility is not in compliance with a well-defined standard. [3]. Keeps "filofax" of important FreeBSD contacts and testers with different configurations, collects commercial contacts, manages the "FreeBSD document library" and is generally a resource for all other managers. The advantage of having this centralized in someone is that they also become an "index" for such information. [4]. Makes sure that each release "checks off" against an array of acceptance tests that he's also responsible for collecting and/or preparing in association with the testing manager. Ensures that the release framework is of sufficient quality and produces additional software (or "commissions" such work) as necessary to improve the general installation and system administration framework. [5]. Does the actual work of putting each release together for handing off to the test manager. [6]. Assembles a battery of tests for constantly exercising FreeBSD in interesting ways. Works closely with #7 to ensure that each and every supported bit of hardware has its driver tested under actual installation and "typical use" conditions. [7]. Collects oddball hardware of every description and runs tests for #6. [8]. Does the obvious - tries to "sell" this whole thing to new users, cultivates corporate contacts and puts together an increasingly more substantial FreeBSD "organization" to support the general advancement of FreeBSD as a UNIX-workalike product. A SPEC 1170 cert so that we can stop calling it a `UNIX-workalike' also wouldn't be a bad project for this man! :) [9]. Manages the ports and packages collection. [10]. Handles technical support questions over the phone and in email. Makes sure that customer complaints are dealt with in a timely fashion. Since this is a horrible job, we probably should pay someone to do it as soon as that's possible. [11]. Preparation of documentation and on-line help. [12]. Keep track of what's going on in the Linux camp, actively working _with_ Linux developers to mutual benefit whenever possible (code sharing) and simply "borrowing" liberally from what's freely available when it's not. [13]. Same, but for the NetBSD code base. We were just joking when we called them "spies", honest! :-) [14]. Makes sure that the "life and history" of the source tree itself is properly preserved and that people do not commit gross acts of CVS destruction on it through ignorance or stupidity. Also manage on-going efforts to improve the ability for outside people to make contributions and stay sync'd with FreeBSD-current, if they so desire it. All of these positions were provisional appointments and, as many here can see, are in many instances not even properly filled. This also represents an "ideal" list of positions, and as it's highly unlikely that we'll be able to fill all of them effectively for some time yet, you'll see "doubling up" of certain positions by a single person. This simply represents the structure we at the meeting thought it'd be someday nice to see. There was then some discussion on how to file 'changes' and 'fixes' back to the system from a remote user, and a discussion was had about some sort of database with a Mail front-end for queries and submissions (e.g. something along the lines of cvs commits and updates by mail - DavidG has too little connectivity to use interactive stuff sometimes and it's an impediment to getting work done). The status of this topic is open and is pending someone coming forward and actually helping to do the work of setting up such a system. See core for details if you're truly interested - it's a challenging problem! 1.15. A decision was reached that README files in the kernel tree will be encouraged. 1.16. Persuant to "chief architect" powers, it was felt that it we should try to agree that "What the Architect says in a dispute is final.." David is not generally a guy to throw is weight around, and we're getting involved in simply too many disputes where the principles are unable to agree and waste a lot of everyone's time in plowing through endless debate. We need a tie-breaker. AGENDA: 2. Objectives of 2.1 categorised by importance/status: -------------------------------------------------------------- Needed: Slices bad144 sysinstall (new) with slice/bad144 support lynx for help ATAPI support (IDE CDROM) /etc revamp needs finishing. sysconfig & MIB integration - should be able to set variables from -c. SCSI-magtape fixes All-singing 'unreadable' PS2 Mouse improvement Nice-to-have: Better buggy hardware detection boot from and on CD boot from and on DOS SCSI-TCP Firewall completion.. (look at DEC stuff too) Experimental: devfs rfork kzip pthreads Linux emulation SCO emulation cyclades serial driver In but known-to-be-broken (and documented as such!): LFS UNIONFS NULLFS VN (may work now) AGENDA: 3. 2.0.5?? -------------------- Jordan notes that Walnut Creek CDROM is somewhat alarmed at the new release date for 2.1R and would really much rather ship something in the interim that's a little more up-to-date than 2.0 if it's going to take that long (a July 1st net release means a mid-July CD, at best). The assembled core team members concur that still shipping 2.0R all the way up through mid-summer is a pretty horrible thought since numerous bugs with 2.0R are known to exist, many of which have been fixed in -current. Counterbalancing this concern is the worry that an interim release will take too much critical time away from 2.1R, which is the true and proper priority. After some discussion, a compromise is decided. An interim snapshot, "2.0.5", will be quickly prepared if it's at all possible to produce something significantly better than 2.0R (which is not that hard) with very little impact on 2.1R's schedule. It is furthermore decided to do this quickly if at all, since drawing it out will only narrow its window of usefulness and negatively impact 2.1R. The following provisional schedule for 2.0.5 (now perhaps 2.0.6 due to the fact that the pcvt people jumped too quickly on the last cancelled 2.0.5 release :-( ) is proposed: April 17th: Begin CODE 'FREEZE' on NEW features on a branch copy of 2.0-950412-SNAP. April 21: SNAPSHOT for testing. April 24th: 2.0.5 CDROM mastered. Group discussion ensues on whether it was better to have regular imperfect releases or irregular 'perfect' releases.. The following interesting facts are debated: 4.1. Linux releases are almost always imperfect, yet they seem to have no shortage of willing victims. Proponents all claim rapid release schedule as major feature of Linux, where we typical see it as a bug. 4.2. We haven't managed anything close to a perfect release yet, despite our additional "fussiness", and it's wondered whether or not we simply use high standards as an excuse to procrastinate, only to generally panic at the last minute and shove out an inferior product anyway. 4.3. As things move forward, it's hard to support old code. Fresher releases do free us from much of that burden among the new-user population. 4.4. Our "upgrade" policy is a complete mess and needs a serious visit [action: Jordan is working on organizing this with some other folks] 4.5 WC desire something a little more up-to-date to sell (hey they supply the machines and Jordan). Decisions: X.Y is a 'perfect' (or as close as we can) release with a full alpha/beta/release cycle.. X.Y.Z is an imperfect 'SNAPSHOT release' with a '5 day' branch/freeze/check cycle.. We should put out SOMETHING more often than we are: So we will release 2.0.5.. (on CDROM & NET) It doesn't matter if therelease itself is not perfect.. it should state CLEARLY on the package that it is an upgrade for 2.0 but not a 'perfect' release. We should look at X.Y.Z releases every N months (3?) (2.5?) AGENDA: 4. 2.1 schedule ----------------------- ALPHA: May 31, 1995 [30 full days of testing] Release: July 1, 1995 This is a somewhat more advanced schedule that previously thought, but no one can argue with Jordan's revised estimates to core (original email available on request) it seems, so we have to accept that it's simply going to be this late. [ END OF MINUTES - THIS FILE HAS NOT BEEN TRUNCATED ] ==================================== That pretty much sums up the meeting. We broke it up around midnight and didn't even get any ice cream afterwards. Gary felt especially cheated by this! :-) I'm sorry that these minutes took so long to get out, but I'm swamped as usual. On the bright side, it looks like my house was finally purchased today, and so fairly soon I'll finally have a place to live after 8 months of sleeping in a corner of the floor! Hurrah! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 06:06:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA18651 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:06:35 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA18627 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:04:59 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id JAA04622; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:04:06 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504191304.JAA04622@hda.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2244 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. > but one thing I'm not sure about: > > what is a good way for the devfs to appear? > > I personally favour something hierachical, > such as: I'd like to see an exact match of what we have now, a typical BSD view with a different prefix: > /devfs/rsd0a meaning if you really wanted to you can mount devfs on dev and continue on with no other changes. If you want a second funky hierarchy you could create it as a subdirectory such as: > /devfs/devs/rdisk/pa though I personally would be perfectly happy with the first, and if I were making up the rules I'd say a requirement is that devfs create something that looks just like what we have now. I don't like the idea of doing links to implement this; I think devfs should implement the device file system policy so that it is uniform. BTW: I hate mixed case but maybe others don't. (...) > e.g. > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0 -> ../../disks/sd0 (?) > or > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_all hardlink to /devices/sd0 (?) > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P0 hardlink to /devices/sd0P0 (?) > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P1Sa hardlink to /devices/sd0P1Sa (?) I find this sort of odd. I'm not sure you ever care about partition 0 on the disk at B0T0L0, though you may want to access the device at B0T0L0 for general utilities. That is, I see a need for: > /devfs/rsd0a possibly AKA > /devfs/devs/rdisk/pa and for SCSI "device visiting" utilities (SCSICONF.EXE) possibly: > /dev/devs/scsi/b0/t0/l0 because then you can write the utility using opendir ... etc, but no really good reason for naming a partition of a disk accessed via the SCSI nexus. Aside: At the moment only the SCSI Target device needs the encoded SCSI nexus. And it does need it, there is no good work around. The support for all devices is still in there but conflicts with the slice code. I haven't decided if the support should be simply removed in the general case as something that we just don't need or kept in and made consistent with the slice code. I lean toward removing it. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 06:51:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA19558 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:51:23 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA19550 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:51:20 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA22292 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:19:53 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA14992; 19 Apr 95 07:48:26 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA14989; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:48:25 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504191248.HAA14989@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:48:24 -0500 (CDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190830.SAA28041@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 19, 95 06:30:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 346 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > /dev/driver_name/all_devices_handled_by_this_drive_in_one_directory is > easiest for drivers, but not quite what is wanted by programs. Why not? > How > should ps find and name tty devices? There aren't enough letters for a > 2 letter namespace. Two solutions.... Give up the 2 letter namespace? Symlink /dev/ttyxx to /devices/whatever? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 06:52:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA19590 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:52:40 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA19584 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:52:36 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA22283 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:19:15 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA14832; 19 Apr 95 07:40:07 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA14829; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:40:07 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504191240.HAA14829@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:40:06 -0500 (CDT) Cc: fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2396 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I personally favour something hierachical, > such as: > /devices/disks/sd0/all > /devices/disks/sd0/FAT/all /* I suppose it could be called C: */ > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/all > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/a > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/b > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/c > /devices/disks/sd0/99/all /* MACH but not recognised */ > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/all > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/A > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/B > /devices/disks/sd1/all > /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/all > /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/b > /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/c > /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/d > /devices/disks/wd0/all > /devices/disks/wd0/BSD/all > /devices/disks/wd0/BSD/a First of all... you need two views of the same devices: sd0 is the first scsi disk c0t0l0 is the disk at scsi bus 0 target 0 lun 0 I don't see any reason in devfs to make these symlinks, since it's all virtual anyway... just have them both have the same major/minor. Secondly, is there a technical reason for separating wdn from sdn in the disk-only view? Finally, since you only show things that actually exist, there's not much point to a deep hierarchy. Sun's devfs uses a hierarchy and it's a pain... A little hierarchy to avoid /dev chaos with everything in one place, yes, but how about just two levels? (warning, this gets pretty blue sky towards the end...) Cooked: /devices/disk/d0 # whole first disk /devices/disk/d0s0 # first slice (dos, no parts) /devices/disk/d0s1 # second slice /devices/disk/d0s1p0 # second slice first partition /devices/disk/d0s1p1 # second slice second partition Raw: /devices/rdisk/d0 # whole first disk /devices/rdisk/d0s0 # first slice (dos, no parts) /devices/rdisk/d0s1 # second slice /devices/rdisk/d0s1p0 # second slice first partition /devices/rdisk/d0s1p1 # second slice second partition Tapes: /devices/tape/t0 # first tape /devices/ntape/t0 # first tape, no rewind Serial: /devices/tty/0 /devices/tty/1 /devices/tty/2 /devices/tty/3 /devices/tty/4 /devices/cua/0 # non-modem-control of course Pty: /devices/pty/0 .. nnnn # created as needed? Explicit: /devices/wd/c0d0 # first disk on first wd /devices/wd/c0d0s0 # ... /devices/scsi/c0t0l0 # first device on first SCSI... Now we get a bit fuzzy... what's the logical naming? /devices/sio/t3p0 # single port IRQ 3 /devices/sio/c3p0 # single port IRQ 3 non modem control /devices/sio/i10p0 # multiport card IRQ 10 ... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 07:30:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA20558 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:30:20 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA20550 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:30:16 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id IAA03957; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:34:12 -0600 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:34:12 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504191434.IAA03957@trout.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nate Williams , jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: proposed change to ld.so In-Reply-To: <8105.798273116@freefall.cdrom.com> References: <199504190329.VAA01681@trout.sri.MT.net> <8105.798273116@freefall.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > To be honest, I have no idea how long this will take. I've been > > spending my time trying to understand the code and have spent little > > time with coding. I doubt anything will happen in the next week or so. > > What is causing the critical need for this? > > Certain impending release plans. I would be happy if you could just > commit it and proceed with your own work in parallel. Can do, but I'm not sure if the new code will affect the system in unforseen ways. I haven't tested the cascade code at all, and as we've all seen, even minor changes can cause major headaches. With the impending release, I felt it would be foolish to introduce something new into this critical part of the system. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 07:42:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA20775 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:42:59 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA20767 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:42:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:41:11 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: Guido van Rooij cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: gated question In-Reply-To: <9504190935.AA28837@mmra1.ms.philips.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, Guido van Rooij wrote: > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:35:44 +0200 (MET DST) > From: Guido van Rooij > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: gated question > > We also mailed this question to the gated list, mut perhaps here are > also ppl that have an answer. > > We have a freebsd based router. because of the environment we are forced > to only use rip. > > For simplicity, assume we have 2 interfaces, say ed0 and ed1. > > On ed0 we want the network x.y.z.0 to be always announced with metric 2. > On the ed1 side (connected to the x.y.a.0 network), we've got a bunch of > terminal servers all announcing hosts in the x.y.z.0 net on a per host > basis. So x.y.z.2 sometimes show up being announced from x.y.a.10, and > sometimes on x.y.a.11. > > So gated needs to listed to incoming rip packets from one of the > terminal servers on the ed1 side, but should *always* announce the complete > network on th ed0 side (even when there are no x.y.z.0 hosts announced at > all on the ed1 side). > > We've tried a number of things, but in vain. The only way the x.y.z.0 > route is announced is when it is added in a static { } table. But then gated > refuses to look at rip packets on the ed1 side (whether or not the static > entry is having a noinstall option or not). > > So probably it all boils down to the question how to have gated always > announce a particular route without having it declared in a static {} > list. > > Hope you can help me! > > -Guido > If you'd get any responces please Cc: me: I can't announce a whole C class net when the router of this net connects with ppp/slip: can't even with a static {} section. Similar problem :-( AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 07:58:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21347 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:58:44 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21340 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:58:42 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA02926; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:58:23 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA02568; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:57:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:57:46 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504191457.HAA02568@geli.clusternet> To: G.Watson@gu.edu.au Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I bought a 192 wide node SP-2 for NAS last year, and supervised the benchmarking. After which I quit to do more interesting things. The 590 boards are very fine, and the switch and message passing architecture is very good, but the disks are about 2x slower than what you can run on pcs, and from what I understand it is hard to deal with large amounts of IO. Which is not a lot different from a cluster. You don't have all wide nodes, right? And about the load-leveler: I'm a beta site for the Portable Batch System being developed at NASA. The schedule for supporting parallel jobs on workstation clusters (including FreeBSD pc clusters) is mid-summer, so that is the last mandatory piece of the puzzle, I think. (Some would say they can't live without a Fortran source debugger, sissies I say ;-) Things are very exciting in the world of computing these days. Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 08:27:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA22057 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:27:31 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA22050 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:27:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:25:00 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: dennis cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <199504190007.UAA04161@mail.htp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, dennis wrote: > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:07:45 -0400 > From: dennis > To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu > Cc: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? > > > Something that might help in your case against LINUX...... > > We have recently announced a full suite of serial support for FreeBSD. Our > high performance serial controllers run up to T1 speeds (V.35, RS-449) and > we support > Cisco Serial Protocol, PPP, X.25 and Frame Relay. There is no comparable ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > product for LINUX (the Linux people have been swamping us with requests, but ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > we wanted to use FreeBSD internally because we think it is a much better > product). WAN networking is VERY important these days. > What good in the absence of the Linux support? The scope of the usage would be lower, what's so nice about it? AGL > > Dennis > Emerging Technologies, Inc. > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 08:28:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA22086 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:28:02 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22079 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:27:59 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA05972 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:27:38 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA02642 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:27:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:27:02 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504191527.IAA02642@geli.clusternet> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |As Julian Elischer wrote: |> |> work on the price of the WS vs the Price of a good PC |> and point out you can get free CDs (: | |... and good support. :) | This is absolutely true. I've never seen such quick support for an OS. Linux is good, too. I've had to deal with SGI SUN IBM CRI TMC Intel and got mostly whining and "RSN" for my trouble (and expense). But, it is a hard thing to try and convince nonbelievers, so I usually don't try. But if I were a research project ;-), access to source code and kernel hackers without trauma might be a real powerful win. Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 08:28:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA22102 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:28:14 -0700 Received: from vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk (vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk [130.209.240.50]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22087 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:28:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199504191528.IAA22087@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: from savage-gw.dcs.gla.ac.uk by vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk with LOCAL SMTP (PP); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:28:14 +0100 To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 1995 03:54:11 PDT." <199504191054.DAA08184@ref.tfs.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:28:00 +0100 From: Dougal Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You know, I thought the major advantage of having a /dev directory is that the kernel doesn't have to know the names of all the various devices, because this mapping is specified by the filesystem. The devfs is about to hardwire all this stuff in, at the expense of some kernel bloat. The dubious advantages of devfs: [ Julian Elischer ] > You might want to use it if it always had the right major and minor numbers > for devices that were dynamically added in.. > one time it might be major 35 and the next time you boot, it could > be major 37 because you loaded the new WIZBANG driver as well. The device entry can be created by an auxilliary program at module load time, and deleted afterwards. Does FreeBSD have support for this? I can't remember offhand. > it also means that disk slices can be shown only when they > actually exist on the disk.. Well, it's perfectly feasible (and adds less kernel bloat) to query the kernel at boot time for attached devices and build up the /dev directory based on the information. This IMHO is a better solution than the devfs. > (plus lots of other reasons to do with 'upcoming' stuff.) I hope this doesn't mean that some future things will actually *require* the devfs, please keep it optional. Just my 2p, Simon From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 09:10:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA22956 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:10:32 -0700 Received: from edcom.com (edcom.com [140.174.173.185]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA22949 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:10:29 -0700 Received: (from edward@localhost) by edcom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA00737; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:10:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:10:17 -0700 From: Edward Wang Message-Id: <199504191610.JAA00737@edcom.com> To: paul@vix.com Subject: Re: DEC screend in core FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk / The patches that need to be applied to ip_input.c are license-free. They (the few lines there are) are substantially rewritten for FreeBSD in any case. (Rather, I didn't have much luck getting it to work as is. Things may have changed.) / The new files (ip_screen.*, gw_screen.*, screend/*) are all restricted / by a DEC license such that no third party redistribution is permitted. / (This is an improvement over the previous license, let me assure you -- / and it's also the best I was able to get.) Sounds like time to reimplement it. I've seen the code though, so I'm not sure I qualify. The kernel hooks are tiny, but screend itself is bigger. Also, maybe the time is better spent improving ipfirewall. Is anyone actively working on that? Another thing: why can't the bpf stuff be used as the basis for a fire wall? It already has a filter compiler in tcpdump, no? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 09:47:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA23471 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:47:09 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (root@uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.6.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA23464 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:47:06 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id LAA29472 for freebsd.org!hackers; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:37:39 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA10431; 19 Apr 95 10:40:24 CDT (Wed) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA28891; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:57:31 -0500 Message-Id: <9504191557.AA28891@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Face: &di>sR4}x'60h?^NtxHJ9^Vt&Z:IZXs1o; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:50:47 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA09052; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:49:24 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504191649.JAA09052@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504191017.DAA00268@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 19, 95 03:17:04 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 878 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev (with possible > >>exceptions for /dev/fd/*). This is a religious issue, I have spoken my > >>religion. > > > >I like it fairly flat. There certainly shouldn't be subdirectories for > >pieces of one device. > > I agree with Bruce. I would have agreed with Rod, but the simple fact is > that our /dev directory is getting very large and bloated, and this will only > get worse. Perhaps /dev/disks/* and /dev/ttys/*, etc, might be a way to > organize things (in other words, by device class). I prefer to not minimize > the number of levels as much as possible, while still providing some > organization. I vote for this one too. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 10:00:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA23786 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:00:08 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23779 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:00:04 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA02795; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:57:13 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504191657.JAA02795@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! To: peter@nmti.com Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504191557.AA28891@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> from "peter@nmti.com" at Apr 19, 95 10:57:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1152 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > AIEEEEEEEEEE! > > Our hardware guy just dropped this off on me, along with the comment "I guess > we should have asked you before buying this". > > No kidding. It looks irretreivably DOS/Windows-ish. > > Any way to use FreeBSD or something similar to hook this up to a real O/S, > or will we have to add this to the growing collection of dedicated Windows > boxes collecting like DDT high in the corporate food chain? The code is green yet, but we do now have /sys/scsi/worm.c: /* * worm: Write Once device driver * * Copyright (C) 1995, HD Associates, Inc. * PO Box 276 * Pepperell, MA 01463 * 508 433 5266 * dufault@hda.com * * This code is contributed to the University of California at Berkeley: ... /* XXX This is PRELIMINARY. * ... It was specifically added for Jordan, but since it is so hard for him to pull one of the Production CDR drives away I doubt it has had much test time on it. The person to talk to about the code is Peter Default, email address is above. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 10:23:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24320 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:23:47 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24280 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:22:50 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA18992; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:16:27 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191716.AA18992@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:16:27 MDT Cc: fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. > but one thing I'm not sure about: > > what is a good way for the devfs to appear? /dev/dsk/... block disk /dev/rdsk/... raw disk /dev/tty/... tty device /dev/ttym/... modem control tty device /dev/ptm/... master pty /dev/pts/... slave pty /dev/con/... console (keyboard, mouse, display, sound) /dev/mem /dev/kmem /dev/null /dev/zero /dev/tty I'd suggest that there needs to be heirarchy at least to this point. Then there are compatability issues: /dev/icmp /dev/tcp /dev/udp /dev/spx /dev/ip /dev/ipx /dev/socksys /dev/fd096ds15 etc. These probably ought to be installed when the support modules for them are installed (either statically or dynmaically). For instance, the majority of the items in the immediately previous list are for IBCS2 support. The compatability devices that duplicate functionality (like /dev/fd096ds15) should be symbolic links to the "real" device. The ... entries should be handled on a case by case basis. Note that the heircy itself implies an additional selection mechanism that would have normally be handled by major # + minor # bits. The use of symbolic rather than hard links preserves this. Unless we want to change the lookup mechanism to include flags that can be modified by previous path component lookup mechanisms when it goes iterative, this limits the available heirarchy depth to 1 directory deep. As an aside, I *would* like to add the lookup recursion flags at some point to allow easy support of multiple name spaces for a single file (ie: DOS, MAC, OS/2, and UNIX names for each file) using the POSIX "//" escape mechanism, which can only be effective on subcomponents as a file system selector currently, and should be usable as a flag). I would suggest a secondary heirarchy on the disks of DOS partition; this should be an optional layer for non-DOS-aware platforms; this perhaps implies a seperate set of nodes for the floppy device, since on DOS boxes, the floppy does not have DOS partition tables. The console device as a seperate heirarchy is a nice abstraction. This is because it allows you to change directory ownership overall on login and the permissions on devices associated with the console "just change". It is likely that we will want symlinks from the /dev/tty directory into the console directory to unify the console/non-console name space. At this point, the two letter reporting limit is now a problem. It is likely that we will want a symlink for any device that does cannonical processing using the termios code into the tty directory. I suggest the following for a start: new old ----------------- ----------------- /dev/tty/00 /dev/tty00 /dev/tty/c0 /dev/cons0 etc. That's my first take on it anyway... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 10:36:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24496 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:36:03 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24486 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:36:01 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19041; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:28:17 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191728.AA19041@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:28:16 MDT Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504190830.SAA28041@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 19, 95 06:30:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... mount time reconfig of devs ... ] > Programs should use canonical names so the user can't decide everything > here. Agree. Reconfig is bad. Think of /etc/fstab. > >I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev (with possible > >exceptions for /dev/fd/*). This is a religious issue, I have spoken my > >religion. > > I like it fairly flat. There certainly shouldn't be subdirectories for > pieces of one device. I agree; there *should* be a depth to get more information about the device (built into the name selector); it shouldn't be too deep. The problem with depth is resoloution of the devices. Any depth over 1 requires either a flag recursion on lookup (vn_lookup is basically a loop-unrolled recursive descent), OR an exceedingly complex reverse mapping system based on the inode number (and we are back to name space pollution by minor number). I think there is an argument to be made for a depth of 2 for drivers that have a distinction between "controller" and "device attached to controller". This is the multiport serial board and the disk controller issue. It is also (potentially) the sound board issue, if a sound board is considered a controller with devices attached. I think there is potential argument to be made for another heirarchy depth to represent partitions/extended partitions in the case of DOS awar systems. The partitioning code is a logically seperate entity from the slice code, and it should be removable. > >> The naming is not implimented yet because it would be the > >> responsibility of the SLICE code to do the naming.. the DEVFS > >> doesn't care.. > >> it just shows what it's told to show by the device driver (or the slice > >> code in this case). > > /dev/driver_name/all_devices_handled_by_this_drive_in_one_directory is > easiest for drivers, but not quite what is wanted by programs. How > should ps find and name tty devices? There aren't enough letters for a > 2 letter namespace. 3 is 1000 using digits only, or 36^3 for digits + lower case letters. 2 is 26^2 for digits + lower case letters. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 10:36:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24498 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:36:03 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24485 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:36:00 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id NAA05522; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:35:13 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504191735.NAA05522@hda.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191304.JAA04622@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 19, 95 09:04:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 210 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk BTW: How the heck do permissions work? -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 10:48:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24711 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:48:05 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24705 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:48:03 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19086; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:41:29 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191741.AA19086@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Mike Pritchard) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:41:28 MDT Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190842.DAA04273@mpp.com> from "Mike Pritchard" at Apr 19, 95 03:42:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a question: what does the devfs file system get me, and > why would I ever want to use it? From what I've seen so far, it just > looks like a complicated way to access my /dev/* files. 1) Automatic generation and removal of nodes for dynamically loadable and unloadable devices. 2) Automatic generation/removal of devices on bus reset. For instance, attach a device to the SCSI device chain, or power on a tape on the chain that was not powered on at boot time, and it can be made available. The existance of a device file is no longer an ambiguous marker. 3) Automatic generation/removal of devices as PCMCIA cards are inserted or extracted. You can't have a /dev/tty/02 unless you plug in your PCMCIA modem card, for instance, and you want that to go away and be replaced by /dev/ed/00 when you yank it out and stick in your pcmcia network card. Or /dev/dsk/??? and /dev/rdsk/??? when you yank that out and replace it with an Adaptec PCMCIA SCSI controller, or a type II or type III disk drive card. 4) Remote boot from non-BSD systems. One of the main problems in making a diskless system boot BSD right now is the inability of the specfs on the host system to represent BSD file system device adequately. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE IPORTANCE OF THIS ITEM! 5) OpenNet style device export ove the net. This will work with a devfs because the device will still be a remote reference instead of a local reference in the local specfs. You want to access a remote modem? Open it. 6) Protection against trojan-related attacks made by previous cracking that changed device permissions. Permission changes are no longer persistant over reboot (if you want to open up a hole, you will have to explicitly do it in your /etc/rc). 7) Protection against some types of mistakes. I have more than once created a file in my /dev directory instead of writing a device simply because I made a typo. Such file creates are no longer permissable. 8) The "specfs" (an obscene hack in anyones book) can go away. This also frees up a file type field for inodes for reuse. And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:02:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA24996 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:02:47 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA24978 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:02:37 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19153; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:54:59 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191754.AA19153@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:54:59 MDT Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191240.HAA14829@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 19, 95 07:40:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't see any reason in devfs to make these symlinks, since it's all > virtual anyway... just have them both have the same major/minor. The reason for symlinks is to cannonize the access to the devices by heirarchy. This means that the same heirarchy is used for each access. The point in doing this is to embed some of the device information in the heirarchy itself. Typically, this would be what was formerly called the minor device number. > Secondly, is there a technical reason for separating wdn from sdn in the > disk-only view? I see a reason for seperation by controller instance, but not by controller type. The main issue in controller type is instance order to the BIOS to determine which disk we are booting from when we are booting from 0x83. I think this is totally irrelevant to the discussion of device creation. On the other hand, one could certainly desire to have direct access to the SCSI bus on a per target basis... although perhaps the same is true of EIDE. > Finally, since you only show things that actually exist, there's not much > point to a deep hierarchy. Sun's devfs uses a hierarchy and it's a pain... Again, it's useful to unclutter the top level directory AND to add a major number while still getting rid of specfs entirely. > A little hierarchy to avoid /dev chaos with everything in one place, yes, > but how about just two levels? I agree. You *can't* exceed two levels within the representational geometry anyway, since the only thing you are passed to resolve a path component is the directory vnode pointer of the previous path component and the path component to resolve. You can assume you are on /dev easily enough, which gives you a single selector. The only way around this would be adding an argument to the lookup that was a pointer to a long that could be modified by the called FS to generate context for looking up subsequent path components. Direct use of the context as a synthetic inode value (you could not use it for a vnode, since by then that vnode has been unlocked) yields only a single additional lookup depth. Anything beyond that would require that the long be used as a pointer to a file system specific context record. As I said in a previous post, I have every intention os using this mechanism some day anyway. [ ... blue sky ... ] I agree with most of this, but would suggest two digit naming to ensure place holders and to simplify the per device name generation. This admittedly results in a loss of 10 potential devices, but I think a distinction between a '07' and a '7' device would be confusing in and of itself anyway. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:06:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25086 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:06:52 -0700 Received: from mpp.com (dialup-1-61.gw.umn.edu [134.84.101.61]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25076 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:06:48 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05091; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:02:54 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199504191802.NAA05091@mpp.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:02:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504191017.DAA00268@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 19, 95 03:17:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1588 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev (with possible > >>exceptions for /dev/fd/*). This is a religious issue, I have spoken my > >>religion. > > > >I like it fairly flat. There certainly shouldn't be subdirectories for > >pieces of one device. > > I agree with Bruce. I would have agreed with Rod, but the simple fact is > that our /dev directory is getting very large and bloated, and this will only > get worse. Perhaps /dev/disks/* and /dev/ttys/*, etc, might be a way to > organize things (in other words, by device class). I prefer to not minimize > the number of levels as much as possible, while still providing some > organization. > > -DG I've used systems in the past that were setup like: /dev/rdsk/*, /dev/dsk/*, /dev/tty/*, /dev/pty/*, etc... Only a handfull of oddball devices were left in /dev. E.g /dev/null, console, mem, kmem, etc... My only problem with it was if I forgot which type of machine I was on and was looking for a /dev/xxx file instead of a /dev/rdsk/xxx file. >> it also means that disk slices can be shown only when they >> actually exist on the disk.. > > Well, it's perfectly feasible (and adds less kernel bloat) to query > the kernel at boot time for attached devices and build up the /dev > directory based on the information. This IMHO is a better solution > than the devfs. > > Simon I've also seen some system that was able to generate /dev by reading information out of the kernel at run time. -- Mike Pritchard pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:07:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25105 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:07:36 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25099 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:07:35 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19187; Wed, 19 Apr 95 12:00:42 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191800.AA19187@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: simonm@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Dougal) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 12:00:41 MDT Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191528.IAA22087@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Dougal" at Apr 19, 95 03:28:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You know, I thought the major advantage of having a /dev directory is > that the kernel doesn't have to know the names of all the various > devices, because this mapping is specified by the filesystem. The > devfs is about to hardwire all this stuff in, at the expense of some > kernel bloat. Not true. It is a device-install-time wiring that occurs; the only think that will be wired is the relationship between node names and actual devices. This is erroneously missing from the /dev implementation. Please see my previous post on the merits of a devfs. I list at least 8 salient points in favor. > Well, it's perfectly feasible (and adds less kernel bloat) to query > the kernel at boot time for attached devices and build up the /dev > directory based on the information. This IMHO is a better solution > than the devfs. Trade the kernel bloat of devfs for the bloat removal of killing specfs. > I hope this doesn't mean that some future things will actually > *require* the devfs, please keep it optional. I think remote boot and expanding minor numbers used as bit selectors *require* a devfs to support remote boot from older (ie: Sun) machines. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:15:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25181 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:15:56 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25175 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:15:54 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19232; Wed, 19 Apr 95 12:09:28 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191809.AA19232@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 12:09:27 MDT Cc: dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191735.NAA05522@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 19, 95 01:35:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BTW: How the heck do permissions work? Ownership and permissions should be specified by the device itself as part of the registration information. Since the device must be there for the device nodes to be valid and present, and since the devfs is updated by the kernel and can be tied to kernel events (like load/unload), there is actully no good reason that this information should be copied to be stored seperately... the only valid argument is templating of device permissions -- and it is not very supportable to argue that templating is a better soloution that simply unloading and reloading the devices (how frequently do you forsee resetting device permissions?). Permissions changed ater that (or ownership changes) can occur in the device itself. One issue here is in multiple targets for a single driver; the fact is that for each instance, there must be a name record generated anyway which will result in a device selector on lookup; the ownership can be stored as part of that record. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:16:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25191 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:16:18 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25184 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:16:07 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA07304 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:01:07 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 19 Apr 95 22:01:07 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA00695; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:33:30 +0400 To: Andras Olah Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <2454.798285269@utis156.cs.utwente.nl> In-Reply-To: <2454.798285269@utis156.cs.utwente.nl>; from Andras Olah at Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:54:29 +0200 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:33:29 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff Lines: 18 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 803 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <2454.798285269@utis156.cs.utwente.nl> Andras Olah writes: >On Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:51:50 +0400, "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" wrote: >> >> >You'll have to set it to ``lt_LN.ISO8859-1'' for germany. >> >> >> >> No. Do 'make hierarchy' at top level and you got needed symlinks. >Just a little comment: my make world died at making the hierarchy >target. The make distrib-dirs in etc which creates the locale >symlinks failed because the symlinks existed already. It can't fail, there is ln -f -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:19:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25275 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:19:51 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25258 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:19:46 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA09420; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:19:33 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504191819.LAA09420@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, julian@freefall.cdrom.com, fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504191754.AA19153@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 19, 95 11:54:59 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 824 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't see any reason in devfs to make these symlinks, since it's all > > virtual anyway... just have them both have the same major/minor. Part of the devfs conspiracys agenda is to abolish major/minors. They are a nuisance, a kludge, when you think about it. I expect (but this is not final) that a dev_t will become a pointer to a struct. Then the device-driver gets two fields to play with, to take the job of major/minors: struct devfs_entry { void * private_p; u_long private_l; ... }; typedef struct devfs_entry *dev_t; This means that we can get rid of the "struct foobar[NFOOBAR];" constructs in all the drivers... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:30:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25542 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:30:36 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25536 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:30:32 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03018; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:27:07 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504191827.LAA03018@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff To: ache@astral.msk.su (Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Cc: olah@cs.utwente.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" at Apr 19, 95 09:33:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1395 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <2454.798285269@utis156.cs.utwente.nl> Andras Olah writes: > > >On Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:51:50 +0400, "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" wrote: > >> >> >You'll have to set it to ``lt_LN.ISO8859-1'' for germany. > >> >> > >> >> No. Do 'make hierarchy' at top level and you got needed symlinks. > > >Just a little comment: my make world died at making the hierarchy > >target. The make distrib-dirs in etc which creates the locale > >symlinks failed because the symlinks existed already. > > It can't fail, there is ln -f It can fail if he is running a version of ln.c prior to: ---------------------------- revision 1.5 date: 1994/12/06 18:50:44; author: bde; state: Exp; lines: +3 -3 Use lstat() instead of stat() for checking if the final source file exists, so that `ln -fs' works when the source is a symlink pointing to a non- existent file. ---------------------------- or ---------------------------- revision 1.3 date: 1994/09/20 07:24:51; author: phk; state: Exp; lines: +1 -1 fix ln to accept -f again. Thanks Bruce. Seems that Joe Grosch isn't quite as safe as I thought. I will have to look much closer on his patches. Damn. ---------------------------- 2.0R ln is broken with respect to ln -sf :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:31:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25572 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:31:19 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25549 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:30:57 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA29535; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:30:36 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA09411 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:30:35 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA09033 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:25:55 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504191625.SAA09033@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:25:55 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Apr 19, 95 05:56:16 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 593 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Tao wrote: > > > 1. Linux has dreadful nfs performance. ... > > Still?!? Geez, I was "reassured" by several Linuxers that the > network code has been "vastly improved" for the 1.2.x kernel. I think their problem is not only the network code, but also the NFS implementation. This topic did already cause extended hmmm...discus- sions :) in Usenet. The term of the ``NIH syndrome'' (not invented here) has been brought up there... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:31:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25565 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:31:14 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25550 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:30:58 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA29527; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:30:34 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA09405 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:30:33 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA08973 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:18:05 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504191618.SAA08973@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:18:05 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504190733.AAA07567@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 00:33:08 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 440 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > [Should this really be on 3 lists??? ] > well I wante dthe widest group :^| Posting to more lists does not necessarily widen the audience. The other lists usually have a subset of -hackers listening, so posting something to hackers is likely to reach all. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:31:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25596 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:31:42 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25579 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:31:27 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA29531; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:30:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA09408 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:30:33 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA09011 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:23:19 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504191623.SAA09011@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:23:18 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504190842.DAA04273@mpp.com> from "Mike Pritchard" at Apr 19, 95 03:42:28 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 864 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mike Pritchard wrote: > > I have a question: what does the devfs file system get me, and > why would I ever want to use it? From what I've seen so far, it just > looks like a complicated way to access my /dev/* files. I'm also wondering. I've always thought of devfs as a replacement for the current strategy of allocating static entries under /dev (with the inherent problem that the currently configured drivers disagree with the /dev entries, in both ways [driver configured, but no /dev entry -> driver not accessible; /dev entry, but driver not configured -> ENXIO]). This way, each driver would be responsible to claim its /dev entries after it succesfully configured the device. Seen this way on DG/UX. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:33:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25630 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:33:00 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25616 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:32:36 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA29511; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:30:30 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA09396 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:30:29 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA08821 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:54:40 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504191554.RAA08821@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:54:39 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" at Apr 19, 95 11:51:50 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 279 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage wrote: > > Make install don't make hierarchy. So the links should better be done at `make install'? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:34:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25657 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:34:00 -0700 Received: from netcom19.netcom.com (bakul@netcom19.netcom.com [192.100.81.132]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25651 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:33:59 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom19.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id LAA26076; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:33:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199504191833.LAA26076@netcom19.netcom.com> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:33:42 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I like the scheme but I have a few questions: What does a /dev/disk/ relate to for removable media? The drive or disk? If I have two ZIP drives (which have removable disks) and swap the disks will I end up writing to the wrong disk? What happens if a non-removable disk appears at a different SCSI address? What would one configure the kernel? Swap on /dev/sd0b or swap on /dev/? The former refers to a specific disk partition on a drive attached to a specific scsi address, the latter says I don't care where that disk is but if you find it, use it for swapping. Similar question for disk mirroring in software. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:38:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25790 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:38:34 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25776 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:38:28 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA05851; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:37:38 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504191837.OAA05851@hda.com> Subject: DEVFS ownership and permissions To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504191809.AA19232@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 19, 95 12:09:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1602 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > BTW: How the heck do permissions work? > > Ownership and permissions should be specified by the device itself as > part of the registration information. Bill has a raw disk partition he collects his image data on. It is owned by bill and read write by Bill. It is /dev/rsd1e. Where is the persistence of the ownership and the permissions of this raw device which is owned by a regular user? Is it stored on disk someplace and gets established as the system comes up? > Since the device must be there for the device nodes to be valid and > present, and since the devfs is updated by the kernel and can be tied to > kernel events (like load/unload), there is actully no good reason that > this information should be copied to be stored seperately... the only > valid argument is templating of device permissions -- and it is not > very supportable to argue that templating is a better soloution that > simply unloading and reloading the devices (how frequently do you > forsee resetting device permissions?). > > Permissions changed ater that (or ownership changes) can occur in the > device itself. One issue here is in multiple targets for a single > driver; the fact is that for each instance, there must be a name record > generated anyway which will result in a device selector on lookup; the > ownership can be stored as part of that record. I don't understand what you are saying. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:46:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25941 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:46:21 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25935 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:46:18 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA09577; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:46:09 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504191846.LAA09577@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS ownership and permissions To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191837.OAA05851@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 19, 95 02:37:38 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 940 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > > BTW: How the heck do permissions work? > > > > Ownership and permissions should be specified by the device itself as > > part of the registration information. > > Bill has a raw disk partition he collects his image data on. It is > owned by bill and read write by Bill. It is /dev/rsd1e. Where is > the persistence of the ownership and the permissions of this raw device > which is owned by a regular user? Is it stored on disk someplace and > gets established as the system comes up? Contrary to to Terry, I have talked with Julian about his ideas :-) I belive we will make it part of the boot procedure to have a shell script set the permissions. Permissions are policy, and policy does not belong in the kernel. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 11:47:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25962 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:47:19 -0700 Received: from cybernetics.net (jeffh@server0.cybernetics.net [198.80.48.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25956 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:47:17 -0700 Received: by cybernetics.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23657; Wed, 19 Apr 95 14:47:12 EDT Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 14:47:12 EDT From: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff Hoffman) Message-Id: <9504191847.AA23657@cybernetics.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: 950412-SNAP still not working... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, I turned off all caching in my CMOS and then re-booted, and both fsck and sh still exit on signal 11 once it begins the installation phase. I really want to get this up and running so that I check play with libforms and start getting the hang of it, so if ANY of you have any ideas _please_ get back to me. I have tried everything I know, and nothing works. It all exits on signal 11. The last snap that I ran on this computer was 950210, and it ran fine. Jeff From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 12:00:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26270 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:00:39 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26260 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:00:36 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA05945; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:59:42 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504191859.OAA05945@hda.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS ownership and permissions To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191846.LAA09577@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 19, 95 11:46:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 856 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > I believe we will make it part of the boot procedure to have a shell > script set the permissions. That is kind of klunky. How about a utility that snapshots the permissions and reestablishes them at boot up? You could try to run it at a clean shutdown if we ever get beyond a "10 seconds before you're dead" shutdown. > > Permissions are policy, and policy does not belong in the kernel. Site policy doesn't belong in the kernel. Other policy does, which is why I think I prefer a devfs versus a symlink approach of establishing aliases for the "shallow" (/dev/*) device names. I'm being wimpy because I haven't thought about this much yet. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 12:03:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26320 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:03:25 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26314 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:03:24 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA09677; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:03:12 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504191903.MAA09677@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS ownership and permissions To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191859.OAA05945@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 19, 95 02:59:42 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1061 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I believe we will make it part of the boot procedure to have a shell > > script set the permissions. > > That is kind of klunky. How about a utility that snapshots the > permissions and reestablishes them at boot up? You could try to run it > at a clean shutdown if we ever get beyond a "10 seconds before you're dead" > shutdown. So that any holes made by users will persist over boot-up ? Hmm, seems like an unusual request to me :-) > > Permissions are policy, and policy does not belong in the kernel. > > Site policy doesn't belong in the kernel. Other policy does, which > is why I think I prefer a devfs versus a symlink approach of establishing > aliases for the "shallow" (/dev/*) device names. I'm being wimpy > because I haven't thought about this much yet. Well, devfs will be hashed out in several rounds, so don't worry you will have plenty of time... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 12:11:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26456 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:11:43 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26450 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:11:39 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id PAA05995; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:10:18 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504191910.PAA05995@hda.com> Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Cc: peter@nmti.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504191657.JAA02795@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 19, 95 09:57:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1490 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > The code is green yet, but we do now have /sys/scsi/worm.c: > > /* > * worm: Write Once device driver > * > * Copyright (C) 1995, HD Associates, Inc. > * PO Box 276 > * Pepperell, MA 01463 > * 508 433 5266 > * dufault@hda.com > * > * This code is contributed to the University of California at Berkeley: > ... > /* XXX This is PRELIMINARY. > * > ... > > It was specifically added for Jordan, but since it is so hard for him > to pull one of the Production CDR drives away I doubt it has had much > test time on it. > > The person to talk to about the code is Peter Dufault, email address > is above. Hook it up, boot -current with "device worm0 at scbus?" (you need the scbus for config to figure out it is a SCSI device) and see if it comes on line during boot up and if you can write to the thing. Then start filing bug reports: it is completely untested. Justin and I kicked around some ideas about having SCSI I/O priority queues deriving their priority from the fixed priority scheduler that should let you possibly even run the worm during normal operation. It is primarily for tagged queueing support but has a side effect of giving you good I/O response for time critical I/O. I plan on working on that eventually but have a few things to clear up first. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 12:12:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26469 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:12:32 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA26463 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:12:27 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19651; Wed, 19 Apr 95 13:06:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191906.AA19651@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DEVFS ownership and permissions To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 13:06:00 MDT Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191837.OAA05851@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 19, 95 02:37:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > BTW: How the heck do permissions work? > > > > Ownership and permissions should be specified by the device itself as > > part of the registration information. > > Bill has a raw disk partition he collects his image data on. It is > owned by bill and read write by Bill. It is /dev/rsd1e. Where is > the persistence of the ownership and the permissions of this raw device > which is owned by a regular user? Is it stored on disk someplace and > gets established as the system comes up? Bill is not root. Bill is not allowed to mount thinks, because we are root, and we do not trust weasels named "Bill". 8-). That out of the way, it's in inode 2 for the device, which is the inode that covers the mount point. Just like the current scheme. If Bill gets to access the raw partition, then in the /etc/rc file we give ownership to Bill, because he's not a weasel in this case, he's a "power user". 8-). [ ... consequences of device templating ... ] > I don't understand what you are saying. For multiple targets for a driver, you still don't have to have gobs of memory lying around seperate from the driver itself to store device names and permissions. You can still do everything you need to do through the top end of the driver interface instead. So arguments that you have to have fake directories and crap are without merit. There is no need to duplicate the data if it's going to be reset each time you reboot or each time you unload and then load a loadable driver. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 12:17:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26575 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:17:27 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA26569 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:17:26 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19689; Wed, 19 Apr 95 13:10:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191910.AA19689@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DEVFS ownership and permissions To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 13:10:57 MDT Cc: dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191846.LAA09577@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 19, 95 11:46:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Contrary to to Terry, I have talked with Julian about his ideas :-) > > I belive we will make it part of the boot procedure to have a shell > script set the permissions. > > Permissions are policy, and policy does not belong in the kernel. Without rserving part of the name space for uid/gid or permissions, you can't have a non-initialized default state for these values. I've already noted that an rc style mechanism would be necessary for permissions not equal to the default. A devfs is not magic; Julian, me, and god knows who else have discussed the idea to death at 3 or 4 seperate occasions in the past. It's not likely that we would have different opinions in anything but implementation details this late in the game, especially since it's a given that Julian has already implemented the thing -- several times -- I have an older copy on hand, actually. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 12:36:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26807 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:36:07 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26801 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:36:00 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA01078 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:36:50 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504191936.UAA01078@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: PCMCIA and FreeBSD (fwd) To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers mailing list) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:36:50 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1635 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Do we support the following laptops? Any advice. In reply to Tim Rylance who said > From tkr@puffball.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 19 15:22:43 1995 > From: Tim Rylance > Message-Id: <199504191421.PAA01068@puffball.demon.co.uk> > Subject: Re: PCMCIA and FreeBSD > To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:21:07 +0100 (BST) > In-Reply-To: <199504131930.UAA13767@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 13, 95 08:30:11 pm > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 1261 > > : Ok, if you want to run FreeBSD let me know and I'll find out if what exactly > : we support laptop-wise. > > Well Solaris costs a fortune in memory, runs like a dog, isn't UNIX, doesn't > have source (I'm running it on my sparc); I'm mildly prejudiced against > Linux (it's a lot more like UNIX than Solaris is, though); BSD/OS is > possible but relatively expensive; FreeBSD looks the best bet. Alternatively, > I have a copy of Windoze 95 :-). > > I'm considering the Dell Latitude XP, the Digital Hi-Note Ultra, and the > Toshiba T2150 at the moment. Mike forwarded a message (from freebsd-hardware?) > saying the Dell+3c589 doesn't work because Dell use a PCMCIA chipset that > FreeBSD doesn't support. I think I'll get Linux-on-4CDs-for-$25 just to > see what's going on (Linux is rumoured to have "proper" PCMCIA support). -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 13:15:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA27729 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:15:32 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA27723 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:15:25 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA04495 (5.65.kiae-2 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:59:24 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 19 Apr 95 23:59:23 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA01695 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:56:33 +0400 To: FreeBSD hackers References: <199504191554.RAA08821@uriah.heep.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <199504191554.RAA08821@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch at Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:54:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:56:33 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff Lines: 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 613 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504191554.RAA08821@uriah.heep.sax.de> J Wunsch writes: >As Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage wrote: >> >> Make install don't make hierarchy. >So the links should better be done at `make install'? I don't have opinion on this subject. Per existent tradition we don't check/make directory tree on install. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 14:06:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA29131 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:06:11 -0700 Received: from singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.204.56]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA29121 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:06:09 -0700 Received: (from cstruble@localhost) by singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA21281; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:07:35 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:07:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Craig Struble Reply-To: cstruble@vt.edu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: A running pthreads? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I keep reading about getting pthreads running under 2.x. I have built a 1.60b2 version and managed to get it working. I'm reluctant to put it out for random consumption because the installation is less than palatable. If people desire, I can put a hacked copy of it up on some server, with the understanding that it's definitely not up to being FreeBSD port quality, ie. you can't simply type make and have it do the right things. And right now, I just don't have the time to work on it to put it in that state. If someone is willing to take it to the next level, that's fine with me. Let me know what you want me to do. See ya later, Craig -- Craig Struble, Grad Student |_ Virginia Tech, cstruble@vt.edu |_ What is this? http://acm.vt.edu/~cstruble/ |_ /\*([^\*]|\*+[^\*/])*\*+/ Ask for PGP Public Key | From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 14:09:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA29230 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:09:50 -0700 Received: from singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.204.56]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA29224 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:09:48 -0700 Received: (from cstruble@localhost) by singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA21328; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:11:14 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:11:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Craig Struble Reply-To: cstruble@vt.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Install Wish Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="RAA21209.798325268/singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us" Content-ID: Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --RAA21209.798325268/singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --RAA21209.798325268/singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 14:10:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA29291 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:10:46 -0700 Received: from singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.204.56]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA29285 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:10:43 -0700 Received: (from cstruble@localhost) by singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA21358; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:12:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:12:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Craig Struble Reply-To: cstruble@vt.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Install Wish Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oh great installation gods, I wish that I might have a "Retry" option during FTP installation, so that if the server is busy and fails to allow me to FTP the base distribution during install, I can try, try again. It really is quite annoying and frightening that the installation will let me install a whole bunch of stuff without getting the base distribution first. Thanks for a great system. See ya later, Craig -- Craig Struble, Grad Student |_ Virginia Tech, cstruble@vt.edu |_ What is this? http://acm.vt.edu/~cstruble/ |_ /\*([^\*]|\*+[^\*/])*\*+/ Ask for PGP Public Key | From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 14:39:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA00314 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:39:16 -0700 Received: from unlisys.unlisys.NET (unlisys.unlisys.net [194.64.15.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA00308 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:39:12 -0700 Received: by unlisys.unlisys.NET from deadline.snafu.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 [@@]) id m0s1hSb-0000I8C; Wed, 19 Apr 95 23:38 MET DST Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0s1hSW-000IybC; Wed, 19 Apr 95 23:38 MET DST (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:38:51 +0200 (MET DST) Organization: -D-E-A-D-L-I-N-E- Public access UN*X system - 13347 Berlin. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 535 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- Does anyone out there know something about LAT support? Is there already support planned for things like that? Anyone else working on something like this ?! Please let me know ... Mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 14:41:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA00349 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:41:08 -0700 Received: from gw.home.vix.com (gw.home.vix.com [192.5.5.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00343 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:41:07 -0700 Received: by gw.home.vix.com id AA05604; Wed, 19 Apr 95 14:40:55 -0700 Message-Id: <9504192140.AA05604@gw.home.vix.com> X-Btw: vix.com is also gw.home.vix.com and vixie.sf.ca.us To: Edward Wang Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DEC screend in core FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:10:17 PDT." <199504191610.JAA00737@edcom.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:40:55 -0700 From: Paul A Vixie Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've thought of reimplementing it but it's a lot of work and it would be hard to do it better (or as well, speaking as the one who did some of the work on the current screend). My current plan is to reimplement the kernel portion in a way that even DEC wants to use it, and hope that DEC will give me redistribution rights to the daemon out of guilt :-). BPF doesn't control forwarding. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 14:49:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA00559 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:49:10 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00553 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:49:09 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA10444; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:49:07 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504192149.OAA10444@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: A running pthreads? To: cstruble@vt.edu Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Craig Struble" at Apr 19, 95 05:07:32 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 892 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk have you talked to CAP? (the guy who seems to be in charge of it)? he said he was working on a FreeBSD port. If he and you can agree about joining forces so that we get a single version that is the same as his latest 'global' version then it'll go straight into the tree, no questions asked.. let us know if you can't contact him.... and we'll take your stuff anyhow as an interim solution till it's all pretty :) julian (p.s. if you DO find him, we probably want a FreeBSD person to work with him to make sure it stays up-to-date under FreeBSD.. whould you like the job? jordan, do you have up-to-date info on the pthreads maintainer? julian > > I keep reading about getting pthreads running under 2.x. I have built a > 1.60b2 version and managed to get it working. I'm reluctant to put it out > for random consumption because the installation is less than palatable. > > julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 15:04:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA00879 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:04:58 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA00873 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:04:55 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id QAA05571; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:08:47 -0600 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:08:47 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504192208.QAA05571@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) "Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support?" (Apr 19, 11:38pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone out there know something about LAT support? Yes. > Is there already support planned for things like that? None that I'm aware of. > Anyone else working on something like this ?! Doubtful, since LAT is a DEC proprietary protocol and they will not release programming information on it w/out a LOT of money and a signed NDA. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 15:23:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA01295 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:23:42 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA01252 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:21:22 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA05063; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:20:37 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA11397 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:20:37 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA10846 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:57:17 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504192157.XAA10846@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:57:17 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <18149.798295438@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 19, 95 05:43:58 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 629 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > SCSI-magtape fixes Can someone elaborate more on this? ... > We should look at X.Y.Z releases every N months (3?) (2.5?) I think, 3 months have been the initial intent of WC for regular releases... > ... On the bright side, it looks like my house was finally > purchased today, and so fairly soon I'll finally have a place to live > after 8 months of sleeping in a corner of the floor! Hurrah! :-) Congrat's! When do you give your party? :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 16:27:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA02593 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:27:29 -0700 Received: from eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (eldorado.net-tel.co.uk [193.122.171.253]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA02584 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:27:20 -0700 From: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Received: (from root@localhost) by eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (8.6.10/8.6.10) id AAA29818 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:26:45 +0100 X400-Received: by mta "eldorado" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Thu, 20 Apr 95 0:25:45 +0100 X400-Received: by mta "net-tel cambridge" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Wed, 19 Apr 95 23:25:42 +0000 X400-Received: by "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"; Relayed; Wed, 19 Apr 95 23:25:42 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: ["/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/";hst:10262-950419232542-6FCD] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Originator: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Recipients: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 23:25:42 +0000 Content-Identifier: IP problem with Message-Id: <"MAC-950420002635-558D*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-Tel Computer Systems Ltd/PRMD=Net-Tel/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have been suffering from a networking-related problem that causes my machines to spontaneously reboot. I had previously assumed that this was down to the new VM/buffer stuff, but since 950412 is supposed to be much more stable, yet I have exactly the same problem, maybe my problem is somthing different.... The problem is hard to get a handle on, since you can do various tests on one day and think you are getting a nice reproducible pattern, yet on another day it can be different. The best common factor I can find is situations where packets would probably be discarded due to congestion at an internal interface - the following are typical failure cases: a) Use tcpdump injudiciously on a busy network - dumping with some filter that keeps the level of traffic down to what the terminal can keep up with, but a 'dump everything' runs for a while and then reboots the machine when traffic on the network hots up. b) Start the IIJ PPP in on-demand mode. Ping some external host and it dials up as required. You can now ping away as much as you like and it doesn't break. However, if you do ANYTHING involving TCP packets, the machine reboots. c) Build a kernel with IPFIREWALL, then give a silly ipfw command that blocks all packets on all interfaces. The machine reboots after a few seconds (and can be kicked over faster by pinging localhost for example). I am generally running a kernel that is essentially generic with the devices that I don't use deleted; obviously for tests a) and c) I also have "pseudo-device bpfilter 4", and for test c) "options IPFIREWALL". Since the latest snap has tun0 in the generic kernel, I have also tried test c) having booted from kernel.GENERIC out of the bindist - but in all cases the behaviour seems exactly the same whichever brew of kernel I try. When I say 'the machine reboots' I mean just that - no kernel panic message, just a freeze for a second or so then the BIOS memory count starts. This makes it rather hard to guess what is going on... I am not really inclined to blame the hardware, since I have two machines that are COMPLETELY different in hardware configuration yet behave the same way, and both will stay up for days on end if I avoid doing any of the things I know will kill it. For reference, the two machines are: a) 486/66, 16MB, Adaptec VLB SCSI with disc, tape and CD attached, WD Paradise VLB video, SMC ISA ethernet card (16 bit). IDE disc fitted but not in use (DOS on it). b) 386SX/20, 10Mb, IDE disk, cheapo unaccellerated VGA card, SMC ISA ethernet card (8 bit). Since I seem to be able to kill myself so easily, I'm surprised noone else ahs run into this one. Any ideas? Andrew. andrew.gordon@net-tel.co.uk From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 16:41:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA02851 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:41:15 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA02845 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:41:14 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA10883 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:41:14 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504192341.QAA10883@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:41:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199504192157.XAA10846@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 19, 95 11:57:17 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 582 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > SCSI-magtape fixes they are in already.. happenned the next day.. short reads from variable blocksize devices were broken.. e.g. dd if=/dev/rst0 bs=10k of=/tmp/xx when you had an 80 byte record at the beginning of the tape (standard IBM label) would give an error instead of returning the 80 byte record.... > > Can someone elaborate more on this? > > ... > > We should look at X.Y.Z releases every N months (3?) (2.5?) > > I think, 3 months have been the initial intent of WC for regular > releases... yes I remmeber that too. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 16:44:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA02918 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:44:36 -0700 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA02912 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:44:34 -0700 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id QAA24810; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:44:21 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199504192344.QAA24810@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:44:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199504192157.XAA10846@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 19, 95 11:57:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 329 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > ... On the bright side, it looks like my house was finally > > purchased today, and so fairly soon I'll finally have a place to live > > after 8 months of sleeping in a corner of the floor! Hurrah! :-) > > Congrat's! When do you give your party? :-) Hmmm... if you'll bring the beer, joerg, I'll be *sure* to come! :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 16:58:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA03048 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:58:42 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA03041 for hackers; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:58:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:58:41 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504192358.QAA03041@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: [DEVFS] thanks for the thoughts Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk terry was correct in most of his comments though as usual there was the obligatory 20% that I couldn't make heads nor tails of.. It looks as though the majority feeling is: /devs/disks/sd0 /devs/disks/rsd0 .... using bruce's naming scheme /devs/tapes/rst0 /devs/tapes/nrst0 /devs/ttys/00 /devs/ptys/00 /devs/misc/mem /devs/misc/mem /dev/null ->/devs/null etc. As poul said.. There is a hidden agenda to do away with major/minor numbers all together, but that will be a long way down the track and the present system keeps them. The present /dev entries won't be going away quite yet.... As he also said.. this is extremely experimental, and so everyone will have the oportunity to comment on the 'look and feel' of it. and anyone who feels like coding up a routine to impliment their own favourite way is welcome to do so.. :) On the question of assigning non-standard ownerships.. I envision a small program that the administrator runs, to register the ownership or permission change of a device, and the same program when run in the rc scripts, automatically adjusting the ownerships of any such devices found. Maybe this might be an addition to chmod/chown/chgrp? (of course that doesn't count for devices that are added after boot, but maybe the utilities that load teh devices and start them up can call the utility as well.) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 17:12:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA03346 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:12:58 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03339 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:12:54 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id UAA07776; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:12:06 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504200012.UAA07776@hda.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:12:06 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199504192157.XAA10846@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 19, 95 11:57:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1403 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > SCSI-magtape fixes > > Can someone elaborate more on this? > > ... > > We should look at X.Y.Z releases every N months (3?) (2.5?) > > I think, 3 months have been the initial intent of WC for regular > releases... I think 6 month releases with 3 month bug fix releases (4 releases per year) would be great and almost impossible to actually do, and would be a good target. Also, in Jordan's e-mail there was something that implied perhaps FreeBSD should consider reducing its standards, since all we do is think about releasing quality stuff until it reaches a fever point where we push out the garbage (yes, I'm paraphrasing a little), "after all, look at Linux". I say: NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO. Two things really distinguish us from Linux in my eyes: BSD copyright and quality releases. I've told many people that FreeBSD intends to be a commercial quality OS with better than commercial quality support PLUS the majority of the source. I've said that the 2.0 release was an aberration brought on by the USL settlement and the need to get something out there once 1.1.5 could no longer be distributed. I hope that I haven't been wrong on those points. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 17:22:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA03472 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:22:15 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03466 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:22:11 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id SAA06020; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:26:03 -0600 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:26:03 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504200026.SAA06020@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Peter Dufault "Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley." (Apr 19, 8:12pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Peter Dufault , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think 6 month releases with 3 month bug fix releases (4 releases > per year) would be great and almost impossible to actually do, and > would be a good target. I'd like to throw my support for this as well. I'd like to see 'major' releases every 6 months with the next release being a bug-fix only release. However, I don't think it'll happen simply because most folks aren't willing to wait 3 months after a major release to introduce new functionality, and the only other solution is to have 2 active branches of the tree which CVS doesn't do well. In spite of the technical shortcomings, I think this is something worth investigating, as it would allow one person to be the release engineer for *one* release which would be the initial release, and then followup bug-fix release. Someone else could be the next release engineer. Unfortunately, I think the administration nightmare of two different groups working in parallel would only hinder progress. Geeze, I sound like someone with multiple personalities, don't I? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 17:22:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA03487 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:22:55 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03481 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:22:52 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA00643; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:22:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA02211; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:22:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199504200022.RAA02211@corbin.Root.COM> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: wcarchive down From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:22:49 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wcarchive ate it's system disk after an attempt to add 3 new drives was made. I'm flying down to the Bay area tonight to help fix it, but this will likely require a re-install (and as such, will mean upgrading to -current - a scarey thought). While in the Bay area, I'll likely not be able to read email, so when messages to me go unanswered, this is the reason. I expect wcarchive to be down at least a couple of days, and may not be back up until early next week. Another announcement will be made at that time. Thanks for your patience. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 18:14:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA07360 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:14:35 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA07348 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:14:31 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA00501 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:53:26 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA03385; 19 Apr 95 19:52:42 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA03382; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:52:41 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504200052.TAA03382@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:52:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504191809.AA19232@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 19, 95 12:09:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 253 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ownership and permissions should be specified by the device itself as > part of the registration information. Not always practical. For example: chgroup system /dev/tty* /dev/cua) chown dialer /dev/cua03 chgrp backups /dev/rsd* chmod g+r /dev/rsd* From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 18:42:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA08103 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:42:32 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08092 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:42:26 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA00872 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:33:54 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA03885; 19 Apr 95 20:07:15 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA03882; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:07:15 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504200107.UAA03882@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] thanks for the thoughts To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:07:13 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504192358.QAA03041@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 04:58:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 592 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It looks as though the majority feeling is: > > /devs/disks/sd0 > /devs/disks/rsd0 > .... using bruce's naming scheme Sounds good, though I'd like to have a visible /devs/something/c0t0d0s0p0 interface as well. Having both views available is a good thing. (I like the System V /dev/rdsk vs /dev/dsk business rather than putting it down a level. That's a minor point, though... it's probably best to just go whichever way is easier to implement) > /devs/tapes/rst0 > /devs/tapes/nrst0 > /devs/ttys/00 /dev/ttys/tt00 /dev/ttys/cu00 You need nodes for both sides of the sio thing. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 18:43:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA08139 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:43:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08133 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:43:26 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21792; Wed, 19 Apr 95 19:36:52 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504200136.AA21792@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 19:36:51 MDT Cc: dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504200052.TAA03382@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 19, 95 07:52:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Ownership and permissions should be specified by the device itself as > > part of the registration information. > > Not always practical. For example: > > chgroup system /dev/tty* /dev/cua) > chown dialer /dev/cua03 > > chgrp backups /dev/rsd* > chmod g+r /dev/rsd* Looks good. Put it /etc/rc.dev. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 18:47:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA08235 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:47:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08229 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:47:24 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21804; Wed, 19 Apr 95 19:41:02 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504200141.AA21804@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] thanks for the thoughts To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 19:41:02 MDT Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504192358.QAA03041@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 04:58:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > terry was correct in most of his comments though as usual there was the > obligatory 20% that I couldn't make heads nor tails of.. I'd be happy to elaborate on anything in private or public, whatever. > On the question of assigning non-standard ownerships.. > I envision a small program that the administrator runs, > to register the ownership or permission change of a device, > and the same program when run in the rc scripts, automatically > adjusting the ownerships of any such devices found. > Maybe this might be an addition to chmod/chown/chgrp? May I suggest that you'll want seperate programs for the ownership and permission modifications. I'd like to propose two new commands: chown chmod These have the advantage of being known to work in rc scripts. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 18:50:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA08342 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:50:27 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08335 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 18:50:26 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21826; Wed, 19 Apr 95 19:43:55 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504200143.AA21826@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Install Wish To: cstruble@vt.edu Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 19:43:55 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Craig Struble" at Apr 19, 95 05:12:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh great installation gods, I wish that I might have a "Retry" option > during FTP installation, so that if the server is busy and fails to allow > me to FTP the base distribution during install, I can try, try again. Redirecting the ncftp input from /dev/null to cause it to exit on failure fixes this. Looping can be provided with a shell "while". Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 19:02:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA08707 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:02:04 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA08701 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:02:00 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21901; Wed, 19 Apr 95 19:52:45 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504200152.AA21901@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 19:52:45 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Apr 19, 95 11:38:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone out there know something about LAT support? > Is there already support planned for things like that? > Anyone else working on something like this ?! I implemented LAT once. The only public documentation I know about is pre 5.x microfiche VMS sources. Everything else is pretty much restricted by license, and DEC closed down the fiche documentation as well when it figured it out. I assume you have a DecServer you want to use as a terminal server. 8-). You will need a VAX to download the code to it as well, or you will need to implement MOP and MOP-MOM to boot it. It is almost worthwhile rewriting the download code (the thing is a 68k box, and you can cross-compile the code under BSD using GCC). Typically, LAT is considered DEC proprietary and is unavailable without a license. I believe the DECServers, if downloaded by a VAX, will also support non-LAT CTERM protocol connections -- CTERM is much easier to implement, and you can buy the documentation for it and the underlying protocols for about $180.00 for all the books you would need. I don't think anyone is planning on reverse engineering LAT and then releasing it publically any time soon; DECNet would be a nice thing for BSD to have, though... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 19:12:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA08959 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:12:59 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA08948 for hackers; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:12:55 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:12:55 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504200212.TAA08948@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: [DEVFS] how to check in changes..... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk as we are going into 2.0.5 (6?) have we frozen for new features? or has a branch been made? how do I get my 3 small innocuous patches into the kernel and how do I add my 5 new files? i.e. at this time can I just check into a normal CVS tree? or is there something special I need to do? julian p.s. last I checked CVS wasn't letting me do anything.. (can someone go over how I make a CVS tree of current with me?) (just the kernel for now) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 19:13:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA08994 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:13:52 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA08988 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:13:48 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA11387; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:13:48 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504200213.TAA11387@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Testers needed, OnTrack disk Mgr handling To: phk@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 441 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you have a machine (with or without freebsd on it) which has the OnTrack disk-manager installed, I need you to boot a special floppy and tell me if it finds all the slices. There is no danger to the harddisk doing this. email phk@freebsd.org to sign up. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 19:20:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA09217 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:20:14 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA09211 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:20:08 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id WAA17794; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:20:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:20:04 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504200220.WAA17794@genesis.tiac.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > April 17th: Begin CODE 'FREEZE' on NEW features on a branch copy > of 2.0-950412-SNAP. > > April 21: SNAPSHOT for testing. > > April 24th: 2.0.5 CDROM mastered. Ugh! This sounds awefully familar. I'm not a core member, but how about this as a thought: If you must stick to a strict timetable, why not start automatically imposing a feature freeze 3 weeks before the close of each quarter. At least if it was regularly scheduled we could all see it coming. Circle the burn date in red on your calendar. :-) Only generate *one* SNAP release mid way through the quarter. At least this would reduce the number of moving targets. I'm not trying to be critical, but I really like FreeBSD. I think it'd do nothing but hurt FreeBSD's reputation if the trend of surprise releases continues. Right now there are so many different releases floating around it's getting very difficult to support. (Older snaps are gone but people sure are still using them.) - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 19:21:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA09233 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:21:11 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA09226 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:21:05 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA11430; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:21:04 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504200221.TAA11430@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] how to check in changes..... To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504200212.TAA08948@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 07:12:55 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 817 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > as we are going into 2.0.5 (6?) > have we frozen for new features? no, not as long as DEVFS is firmly #ifdef'ed. > or has a branch been made? no. and will not. > how do I get my 3 small innocuous patches into the kernel > and how do I add my 5 new files? commit them :-) > i.e. at this time can I just check into a normal CVS tree? > or is there something special I need to do? no. > julian > p.s. last I checked CVS wasn't letting me do anything.. > (can someone go over how I make a CVS tree of current with me?) > (just the kernel for now) send me email telling me what you want to do, and I'll send you the commands to use. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 19:37:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA10829 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:37:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA10822 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:37:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: peter@nmti.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 10:57:30 CDT." <9504191557.AA28891@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:37:05 -0700 Message-ID: <10821.798345425@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > AIEEEEEEEEEE! > > Our hardware guy just dropped this off on me, along with the comment "I guess > we should have asked you before buying this". > > No kidding. It looks irretreivably DOS/Windows-ish. Looks like Peter Dufault is your only man! :-) > Any way to use FreeBSD or something similar to hook this up to a real O/S, > or will we have to add this to the growing collection of dedicated Windows > boxes collecting like DDT high in the corporate food chain? Have you tried scsi(1) for whacking commands at it? I assume it documents some of them in the tech specs? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 19:45:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA11092 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:45:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA11085 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:45:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer), fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:16:27 MDT." <9504191716.AA18992@cs.weber.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:45:10 -0700 Message-ID: <11084.798345910@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > /dev/dsk/... block disk > /dev/rdsk/... raw disk > /dev/tty/... tty device > /dev/ttym/... modem control tty device I like these.. > /dev/ptm/... master pty > /dev/pts/... slave pty I think these could be better named. /dev/pty/{m,s}/? > /dev/con/... console (keyboard, mouse, display, sound) I think the keyboard and display, maybe, but the mouse and sound? Hmmmm! I'd much prefer keeping /dev/audio and /dev/mouse "flat" since /dev/con is *not* the first location that would intuitively spring to mind if I were looking for them! At the very least, I'd expect /dev/sound/{midi,speaker,...} and /dev/mouse/{bus,serial,...} > /dev/mem > /dev/kmem > /dev/null > /dev/zero > /dev/tty All good. > Then there are compatability issues: > > /dev/icmp > /dev/tcp > /dev/udp > /dev/spx > /dev/ip > /dev/ipx > /dev/socksys > /dev/fd096ds15 > etc. /dev/net/ might also not be a bad hierarchy - there are enough of these that they probably need to be tucked down a level. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 20:04:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA11729 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:04:42 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA11704 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:04:30 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA31880; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:02:14 +1000 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:02:14 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504200302.NAA31880@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@bonkers.taronga.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> /dev/driver_name/all_devices_handled_by_this_drive_in_one_directory is >> easiest for drivers, but not quite what is wanted by programs. >Why not? To handle /dev/sio/*, /dev/cx/*, /dev/ity/* and /dev/cy/*, ps would have to know that the set of tty drivers is precisely { sio, cx, ity, cy }. >> How >> should ps find and name tty devices? There aren't enough letters for a >> 2 letter namespace. >Two solutions.... >Give up the 2 letter namespace? Yes, someday. >Symlink /dev/ttyxx to /devices/whatever? No. Then whatever does the symlinks would have to know which tty drivers are configured, and /dev would end up twice as messy as now. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 20:27:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA12531 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:27:56 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA12522 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:27:43 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <208>; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:39:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:37:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Peter Dufault cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in , Berkeley. In-Reply-To: <199504200012.UAA07776@hda.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, Peter Dufault wrote: > majority of the source. I've said that the 2.0 release was an > aberration brought on by the USL settlement and the need to get > something out there once 1.1.5 could no longer be distributed. As 1.1.5.1 is still available via FTP, I don't that is entirely true. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 20:58:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA13628 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:58:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA13621 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:58:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: davidg@Root.COM cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: wcarchive down In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 17:22:49 PDT." <199504200022.RAA02211@corbin.Root.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:58:51 -0700 Message-ID: <13620.798350331@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504200022.RAA02211@corbin.Root.COM>, David Greenman writes: > I expect wcarchive to be down at least a couple of days, and may not be >back up until early next week. Another announcement will be made at that time. FYI wcarchive is Walnut Creek CDROM's ``ftp'' server (aka ftp.cdrom.com). Also, it'll be down for at least 24-48 hours, and then come back up in a limited fashion across our T1 for testing, and them early next week moved back to the end of the T3 at the Barrnet PoP in Stanford. How stable it'll be remains to be seen :-( Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 21:10:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA14223 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:10:37 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA14215 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:10:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA01574 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:08:56 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504200508.KAA01574@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Digiboard driver ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:08:56 +0500 (GMT+0500) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 174 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a DigiBoard driver for FreeBSD ? Thanks. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 21:14:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA14338 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:14:28 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA14332 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:14:26 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id AAA02990 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:14:15 -0400 Received: (from gene@localhost) by starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA05141; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:13:20 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:13:20 -0400 From: Gene Stark Message-Id: <199504200413.AAA05141@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I can understand the pressures from WC to get a decent update of their product, but so far the releases have all followed the pattern of a flurry of stuff going into the system, followed by a an extremely foreshortened test phase (hardly enough time for most of us to even do a build world), followed by production of a CD-ROM. I would really hate to see this pattern produce another CD-ROM similar to the 2.0 version. Perhaps this idea is a bit radical, but I think it would be beneficial to separate the technical development goals of FreeBSD from the pressures to get a CD to market. A method I have been applying to get decent snapshots to use is to build the world regularly, observing the general stability of the system and reading the mailing lists to assess the frequency of changes to key portions of the system. When the frequency of key source changes appears to have reached a local minimum and the number of serious instability reports seems small, I try to roll a snapshot. Perhaps the right thing to do would be to set an approximate target date, then charge the release engineer with the task of monitoring the source changes as I described above. When a decent snapshot is obtained near the target date, it can then be subjected to beta testing for two or three weeks to fix the most serious bugs, after which a CD can be mastered. Other than the fact that the approximate target date is known in advance, the release engineer need not inform anyone before the snapshot is rolled. Indeed, this would likely promote last minute bugs. The release engineer would then have to be careful to accept only solid bug fixes during the beta phase. The above strategy would hopefully keep WC supplied with a decent product, without adversely impacting the desire for new features to be included in the system. - Gene Stark From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 21:14:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA14348 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:14:34 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA14341 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:14:31 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA12347 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:14:30 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504200414.VAA12347@ref.tfs.com> Subject: mount_devfs To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 316 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you wish to try the devfs.. you will need mount_devfs.... I've lost (misplaced?) the source, but it was a simple hack.. and I'll replace it .. meanwhile the binary can be found in ~julian on freefall julian (I think I left it in Australia somewhere... maybe bruce could look under a few rocks there for me? :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 21:16:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA14392 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:16:57 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA14386 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:16:56 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA12376; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:16:14 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504200416.VAA12376@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Digiboard driver ? To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504200508.KAA01574@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 20, 95 10:08:56 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 364 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No, Not yet.. I don't know if anyone is working on it, but digiboard only just recently changed their policy enough to allow one to be written.. wanna job? :) julian > > Is there a DigiBoard driver for FreeBSD ? Thanks. > > Serge Babkin > > ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) > ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" > ! Chelyabinsk, Russia > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 21:53:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA17608 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:53:22 -0700 Received: from mg1.cdsnet.net (osyjm@mg1.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA17602 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:53:21 -0700 Received: (from osyjm@localhost) by mg1.cdsnet.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) id WAA02386; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:40:47 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:40:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Terry Lambert cc: "Andreas S. Wetzel" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? In-Reply-To: <9504200152.AA21901@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > I believe the DECServers, if downloaded by a VAX, will also support > non-LAT CTERM protocol connections -- CTERM is much easier to implement, > and you can buy the documentation for it and the underlying protocols > for about $180.00 for all the books you would need. This is incorrect. If you have a DEC server 200, you are stuck with LAT only. If you have 700's, or 900TM's, you can get LAT, SLIp, PPP, and a couple others, but no DECnet. > I don't think anyone is planning on reverse engineering LAT and then > releasing it publically any time soon; DECNet would be a nice thing > for BSD to have, though... I think Matt Thomas one time rambled about maybe doing this. I have no idea how complex it would be. Implementing, and actually having to use NCP gives me the cold sweats From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 22:15:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA18246 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:15:43 -0700 Received: from zaphod (zaphod.ttu.ee [193.40.254.227]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA18238 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:15:40 -0700 Received: from juku.li.ttu.ee by zaphod (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02378; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:15:41 +0300 Received: by juku.li.ttu.ee (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA19017; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:13:57 +0300 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:13:57 +0300 From: tanel@juku.li.ttu.ee (Tanel Kuusk) Message-Id: <9504200513.AA19017@juku.li.ttu.ee> To: terry@cs.weber.edu, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > /dev/tty/... tty device > > /dev/ttym/... modem control tty device What about /dev/term/... and /dev/cua/... ? > > /dev/ptm/... master pty > > /dev/pts/... slave pty > > I think these could be better named. /dev/pty/{m,s}/? Well, /dev/pts/... is more like SVR4 does. BTW, are we talking about normal /dev here or something like Sun's /devices? Tanel From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 22:42:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA18812 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:42:00 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA18805 for hackers; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:41:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:41:59 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504200541.WAA18805@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ok, got your attention.. there is the source to the LINUX digiboard driver in ~julian on freefall. it can be gotten from ftp.digibd.com along with some (not many) docs someone just told me they were working on a digiboard driver bit didn't know about the linux driver.. (one of our russian friends.. (was it andrew?) anyhow, hopefully the linux driver helps.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 23:18:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA19687 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:18:31 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA19681 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:18:28 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA12205; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:18:26 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:18:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199504200618.XAA12205@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com CC: core@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <18149.798295438@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Great minutes, Jordan! Just one thing for me, who was mostly just sitting there wide-eyed and in awe of the discussion by the FreeBSD gods, to add.... * AGENDA: 2. Objectives of 2.1 categorised by importance/status: * -------------------------------------------------------------- * * Needed: * All-singing 'unreadable' PS2 Mouse improvement This "unreadable" part should be "ports & packages management". The PS/2 mouse driver is a separate issue, of course. Satoshi (see, I wasn't asleep :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 23:50:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA20374 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:50:40 -0700 Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA20368 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:50:38 -0700 Received: from utis156.cs.utwente.nl by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (5.0/csrelayMX-SVR4_1.0/RB) id AA00617; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:50:35 --100 Received: by utis156.cs.utwente.nl (4.1/RBCS-1.0.1) id AA10742; Thu, 20 Apr 95 08:50:27 +0200 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LOCALE stuff In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:27:07 PDT Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:50:26 +0200 Message-Id: <10741.798360626@utis156.cs.utwente.nl> From: Andras Olah content-length: 235 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:27:07 PDT, "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > It can't fail, there is ln -f > > It can fail if he is running a version of ln.c prior to: Thank you Rod, that's the right answer. I still had my ln from 2.0R. Andras From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 23:54:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA20473 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:54:02 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA20446 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:53:44 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13641; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:08 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA14427 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:06 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA02111 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:49:46 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504200649.IAA02111@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:49:46 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504200012.UAA07776@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 19, 95 08:12:06 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1096 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Peter Dufault wrote: > > > > We should look at X.Y.Z releases every N months (3?) (2.5?) > > > > I think, 3 months have been the initial intent of WC for regular > > releases... > > I think 6 month releases with 3 month bug fix releases (4 releases > per year) would be great and almost impossible to actually do, and > would be a good target. Hmm, it's perhaps a question of naming. I think the Berkeley tradition was to have even-numbered releases with lots of new stuff and odd-numbered releases which have been mainly bugfix releases. (I dunno if this has been intention or not.) However, _every_ release should be of some basic quality that's better than say the average ***x release quality. We all know about 2.0, but it should remain an exception. Yeah, what makes our job for 2.1 so hard is the fact that 1.1.5.1 was of such a quality that it beats many commercial systems -- and we want to have 2.1 at least as stable as 1.1.5.1. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 23:54:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA20482 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:54:10 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA20463 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:53:56 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13622; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:03 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA14412; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:02 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA02015; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:37:54 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504200637.IAA02015@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) To: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:37:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <"MAC-950420002635-558D*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-Tel Computer from "Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk" at Apr 19, 95 11:25:42 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1147 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk wrote: > > I have been suffering from a networking-related problem that causes my > machines to spontaneously reboot. I had previously assumed that this was > down to the new VM/buffer stuff, but since 950412 is supposed to be much more > stable, yet I have exactly the same problem, maybe my problem is somthing > different.... I'm also experiencing this sometimes. I think it has been mostly caused for me in moments where heavy UUCP-over-TCP traffic went over my external slip link, and i've tried to do something else in the same second across the link (ping someone outside, rlogin to freefall etc.). The bad effect for me was that this will also predictably cause me mail loss (the UUCP jobs did already complete, but their data files on the disk are either missing [not yet backed] or totally garbled [vm or file system consistency problem]). As for you, i cannot reproduce the behaviour, but have seen it at least three times with totally different kernels. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 23:54:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA20488 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:54:15 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA20462 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:53:56 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13637; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:07 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA14424 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:06 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA02094 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:45:05 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504200645.IAA02094@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] thanks for the thoughts To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:45:04 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504192358.QAA03041@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 04:58:41 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 400 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > > > terry was correct in most of his comments though as usual there was the > obligatory 20% that I couldn't make heads nor tails of.. Ay, and i've always thought that's due to my miserable understanding of english, eh! :--) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 23:54:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA20495 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:54:35 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA20475 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:54:05 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13628; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:05 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA14418 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:04 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA02061 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:42:07 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504200642.IAA02061@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:42:06 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504192341.QAA10883@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 04:41:14 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 417 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > SCSI-magtape fixes > > they are in already.. happenned the next day.. > > short reads from variable blocksize devices were broken.. A-ha, that's been the matter. I remember you once seeking for alpha testers. Ok, i can still do it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 19 23:55:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA20506 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:55:06 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA20467 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:54:00 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13633; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:06 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA14421 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:53:05 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA02075 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:43:50 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504200643.IAA02075@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:43:49 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504192344.QAA24810@seagull.rtd.com> from "Don Yuniskis" at Apr 19, 95 04:44:21 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 712 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Don Yuniskis wrote: > > > > ... On the bright side, it looks like my house was finally > > > purchased today, and so fairly soon I'll finally have a place to live > > > after 8 months of sleeping in a corner of the floor! Hurrah! :-) > > > > Congrat's! When do you give your party? :-) > > Hmmm... if you'll bring the beer, joerg, I'll be *sure* to come! :-) If someone pays me the flight, i don't have a problem to take a rack (? - ,,Kasten'') of beer with me. :) I can even get two, one with dark beer, and one with light beer. (No, not with `lite'. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 00:41:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA21206 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:41:07 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA21200 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 00:40:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:50:50 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <199504191527.IAA02642@geli.clusternet> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, Russell L. Carter wrote: > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:27:02 -0700 > From: Russell L. Carter > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? > > |As Julian Elischer wrote: > |> > |> work on the price of the WS vs the Price of a good PC ^^ AXP PCI 33 board costs approx 1100 USD with 166 mhz Alpha in the States I guess: no much difference from PC taking in account the cost of the really good peripherials you need to run UN*X + XFree. $700 P9000 card with 4 megs of VRAM, ~$1150 for the 32 MEGS in the 72pin SIMMs that qualify (say DEEEEEC ;-), SCSI devices, etc Can you really say 100 Mhz 486 matches the performance? ;-) AGL > |> and point out you can get free CDs (: > | > |... and good support. :) > | > > This is absolutely true. I've never seen such quick > support for an OS. Linux is good, too. I've had to deal with > SGI SUN IBM CRI TMC Intel and got mostly whining and "RSN" for > my trouble (and expense). But, it is a hard thing to try and > convince nonbelievers, so I usually don't try. But if I were > a research project ;-), access to source code and kernel hackers > without trauma might be a real powerful win. > > Cheers, > Russell > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 01:29:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA22271 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 01:29:53 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA22262 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 01:29:50 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id KAA10827 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:29:47 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id KAA02707 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:29:46 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504200829.KAA02707@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Install Wish To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:29:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: cstruble@vt.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504200143.AA21826@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 19, 95 07:43:55 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 384 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Redirecting the ncftp input from /dev/null to cause it to exit on > failure fixes this. Looping can be provided with a shell "while". > Ncftp has a "-r" switch to re-"dial" and a "-d number" to specify the delay between attemps. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 02:34:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA23979 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 02:34:23 -0700 Received: from mauser.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (mauser.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA23973 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 02:34:20 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by mauser.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id SAA17638; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:32:50 +0900 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:32:50 +0900 Message-Id: <199504200932.SAA17638@mauser.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: matt@lkg.dec.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: FDDI driver for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:25:09 +0000. <199504171025.KAA27787@whydos.lkg.dec.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199504171025.KAA27787@whydos.lkg.dec.com> matt@lkg.dec.com writes: >> There is a man page for the device (man fpa or man fea). Thank you. >> It's in sys/pci (if_pdq.c and pdq.c). You need to pick up if_pdq.c and >> pdq.c from -current since I have since made a few important bug fixes. >> >> The driver is fully functional (in fact I switched my FreeBSD system >> over to the building FDDI so that I don't even use Ethernet anymore). I only asked DEC Japan about the availability of this board in Japan, but they rent this board to us for test and evaluation under FreeBSD (Very nice company! Thanks!). The board they rent to us has FDDI DAS ports. I tested it with your driver on two Pentium/90 PCI machines. One is Gateway 2000 P5-90 and the other is shop-brand machine with Neptune Chipset. It works fine on formar machine, but it did not work on latter machine. It receives packets about only once per about 30 seconds. I think it receives bulk packets when the RIP packet arrives. I think the error on management or transmission of tokens causes this problem on this environment. >> I was doing some testing last Friday between a DECpc XL 590 and an >> AlphaStation 400 4/233. Using ttcp I could get over 10MB/s transmit >> throughput over TCP and 12.3MB/s over UDP. We couldn't test it on local FDDI network because of the lack of appropriate cables (This board requires SC cable, but we have no SC-MIC cables). So, we tested this board on following environment. Gateway 2000 ------ Cisco 4500 ------ SparcStation20 P5-90 ------ FDDI Router ------ Cisco FDDI board DEC FDDI board The result of ttcp via TCP is about 40Mbps. The ftp throughput (between buffer cache and /dev/null) is about 30-35Mbps. Please note that the Cisco 4500 would be the bottleneck of this benchmark test. We'll test this board on a local FDDI network in a few days. BTW, does your driver works on DEC PCI CDDI/TP boards? If it works, we'll buy some boards because we have many empty CDDI concentrator jacks. Thanks. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 03:26:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA25134 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:26:30 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA25128 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:26:28 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA18080; Thu, 20 Apr 95 03:24:30 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s1tMY-0005PIC; Thu, 20 Apr 95 12:21 MSZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: CDROM stuff Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 10:21:29 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some time ago there was discussion about xcdplayer and its bad habit of nattering at you when you change a CD, vis: >> I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been >>trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I was >>wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and >>all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out >> >>open : Device not configured >> >>until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there's >>one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! >> > >This is a genereral problem with xcdplayer. Go make a patch for it and >I'd be happy to commit it to the tree. :) > >> >> >> >>-matt >> >>-- >>Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - >> -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration >>Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other >>---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- > >-- >Justin T. Gibbs OK Justin, here's a patch which at least partially relieves the problem :) *** internals.c Tue Dec 29 11:56:08 1992 --- internals.c.fix Thu Apr 20 12:12:24 1995 *************** *** 605,611 **** } /* Reset timer */ ! stativid = XtAppAddTimeOut(appc, 1000, update_status, NULL); } /* --- 605,615 ---- } /* Reset timer */ ! /* give the user time to change the CD if one was ejected (60 sec.) */ ! if (cdi.state & CDROM_STATE_EJECTED) { ! stativid = XtAppAddTimeOut(appc, 60000, update_status, NULL); ! else ! stativid = XtAppAddTimeOut(appc, 1000, update_status, NULL); } /* Seems to me that 60 seconds should be long enough (works for me). One problem with this patch is that xcdplayer doesn't notice that there's a new CD in the drive until the timeout happens. But this is easy to get around, just click on the play button. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 03:48:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA25417 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:48:54 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA25411 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:48:51 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id GAA09638; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:48:03 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504201048.GAA09638@hda.com> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504200541.WAA18805@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 10:41:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1062 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > > ok, got your attention.. > there is the source to the LINUX digiboard driver in ~julian on freefall. > it can be gotten from ftp.digibd.com > along with some (not many) docs > > someone just told me they were working on a digiboard driver > bit didn't know about the linux driver.. > (one of our russian friends.. (was it andrew?) > anyhow, > hopefully the linux driver helps.. > The Linux driver is copyleft and (allegedly) doesn't exploit all of the features. I'm real hesitant about looking at the Linux driver until we're sure that no one is going to sign an NDA with Digi and write a complete object-only driver. In spite of the availability of a Linux driver Digi requires signing an NDA to get access to the documentation for the intelligent boards. Is anyone interested in a shareware object only driver? Andrew was working on a Riscom driver. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 03:51:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA25451 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:51:18 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA25445 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:51:16 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id GAA09617; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:45:05 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504201045.GAA09617@hda.com> Subject: Re: Digiboard driver ? To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Cc: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504200416.VAA12376@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 19, 95 09:16:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 529 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > No, Not yet.. I don't know if anyone is working on it, but digiboard > only just recently changed their policy enough to allow one to be > written.. > > wanna job? > This would have to be REAL RECENTLY, like within the last two weeks. Are you sure about this, Julian? This makes 7 requests for Digi support in about 6 weeks. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 03:52:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA25471 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:52:12 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA25465 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:52:10 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id GAA09661; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:51:19 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504201051.GAA09661@hda.com> Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Cc: peter@nmti.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <10821.798345425@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 19, 95 07:37:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 675 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > Any way to use FreeBSD or something similar to hook this up to a real O/S, > > or will we have to add this to the growing collection of dedicated Windows > > boxes collecting like DDT high in the corporate food chain? > > Have you tried scsi(1) for whacking commands at it? I assume it > documents some of them in the tech specs? scsi(8) is what he would use for whacking commands. First he should try config'ing the worm driver and see if it comes on line. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 03:59:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA25554 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:59:25 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA25548 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 03:59:23 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id GAA09689; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:58:24 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504201058.GAA09689@hda.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504200220.WAA17794@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Apr 19, 95 10:20:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1628 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steve Gerakines writes: > > > April 17th: Begin CODE 'FREEZE' on NEW features on a branch copy > > of 2.0-950412-SNAP. > > > > April 21: SNAPSHOT for testing. > > > > April 24th: 2.0.5 CDROM mastered. > > Ugh! This sounds awefully familar. I'm not a core member, but how about > this as a thought: > > If you must stick to a strict timetable, why not start automatically > imposing a feature freeze 3 weeks before the close of each quarter. At > least if it was regularly scheduled we could all see it coming. Circle > the burn date in red on your calendar. :-) Only generate *one* SNAP > release mid way through the quarter. At least this would reduce the > number of moving targets. Absolutely, positively, no releases on a quarter boundary. Please. Both work and major holidays (end of June and end of December) cause big crunches and too many FreeBSD contributers have "day jobs". FreeBSD "quarters" should be shifted one way or another by a month. > > I'm not trying to be critical, but I really like FreeBSD. I think it'd > do nothing but hurt FreeBSD's reputation if the trend of surprise > releases continues. Right now there are so many different releases > floating around it's getting very difficult to support. (Older snaps > are gone but people sure are still using them.) Snaps aren't releases and won't go away. The NEED to use snaps is at least part due to 2.0 problems that a bug fix release would take care of. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 04:05:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA25941 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:05:55 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA25935 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:05:52 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id HAA09709; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:05:04 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504201105.HAA09709@hda.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:05:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199504200649.IAA02111@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 20, 95 08:49:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1922 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > As Peter Dufault wrote: > > > > > > We should look at X.Y.Z releases every N months (3?) (2.5?) > > > > > > I think, 3 months have been the initial intent of WC for regular > > > releases... > > > > I think 6 month releases with 3 month bug fix releases (4 releases > > per year) would be great and almost impossible to actually do, and > > would be a good target. > > Hmm, it's perhaps a question of naming. I think the Berkeley > tradition was to have even-numbered releases with lots of new stuff > and odd-numbered releases which have been mainly bugfix releases. > (I dunno if this has been intention or not.) > > However, _every_ release should be of some basic quality that's better > than say the average ***x release quality. We all know about 2.0, but > it should remain an exception. Yeah, what makes our job for 2.1 so > hard is the fact that 1.1.5.1 was of such a quality that it beats many > commercial systems -- and we want to have 2.1 at least as stable as > 1.1.5.1. No, it wasn't a question of naming. I don't believe we could actually produce 4 releases a year that are worth producing. I propose what Nate thought I proposed: two real releases per year, with branches off the release where critical bug fixes were put, and if there were enough critical bug fixes a bug fix release as in 2.0.5. When there are no bugs and not enough value added new non-kernel stuff, then skip the bug fix release. 2.0 : Release 2.0.? : Bug fix release 2.1 : Release 2.1.? : Bug fixes. Yes, it is more of a headache but are there that many critical bug fixes (outside of for 2.0) that we are applying that many fixes to the branch? If there are then the releases are being pushed out without adequate test. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 04:31:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA26193 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:31:00 -0700 Received: from edcom.com (edcom.com [140.174.173.185]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA26187 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:30:58 -0700 Received: (from edward@localhost) by edcom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA00500; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:30:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:30:52 -0700 From: Edward Wang Message-Id: <199504201130.EAA00500@edcom.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk / Hmm, it's perhaps a question of naming. I think the Berkeley / tradition was to have even-numbered releases with lots of new stuff / and odd-numbered releases which have been mainly bugfix releases. / (I dunno if this has been intention or not.) Nah. 4.1c, for example, was the first with most of the goodies. Unless you don't count the lettered releases. My impression was that funding and personpower (I'm from Berkeley after all) pretty much dictated what happened after 4.1c. Mind you, I wasn't in the thick of things, I just hung out there. / However, _every_ release should be of some basic quality that's better / than say the average ***x release quality. We all know about 2.0, but / it should remain an exception. Yeah, what makes our job for 2.1 so / hard is the fact that 1.1.5.1 was of such a quality that it beats many / commercial systems -- and we want to have 2.1 at least as stable as / 1.1.5.1. 1.1.5.1 was a fantastically stable release. Maybe the thing is to have a feature freeze (if there isn't already such a thing), say at the April SNAP level, and concentrate on pounding on the thing. This complicates the management of the source tree though. So maybe the thing to do is to have a clear demarcation of what's experimental and what's solidly tested and supported. Users can be warned off the experimental bits if they prefer stability over feature. The man pages already try to do this, but the boundary should be clearer. Mainly, we don't want to imitate the Linux I-wrote-this-and-now- you-try-it-out style. I'm not on the core team, so I should shut up now. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 04:41:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA26291 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:41:34 -0700 Received: from shiva.Berlin.PTB.DE (shiva.Berlin.PTB.DE [193.174.226.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA26285 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:41:22 -0700 Received: by shiva.Berlin.PTB.DE (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA01364; Thu, 20 Apr 95 13:42:04 +0200 Received: by hamilton.lab1033.berlin.ptb.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07174; Thu, 20 Apr 95 13:36:29 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 13:36:29 +0200 From: mul@lab1033.berlin.ptb.de (m_ulbrich) Message-Id: <9504201136.AA07174@hamilton.lab1033.berlin.ptb.de> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: ISDN support? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there! I'm currently thinking about upgrading my analog phone line at home to ISDN :-) - especially because the german TELECOM makes finally offers which are worth to take into consideration (IMHO). A major point to be checked before proceeding any further is: Does FreeBSD in its current state support any ISDN Interface cards? If not, are there activities in this direction and who is involved in them (maybe, I can offer help)? Cheers, Michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 04:44:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA26317 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:44:19 -0700 Received: from singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.204.56]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA26311 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 04:44:17 -0700 Received: (from cstruble@localhost) by singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA23648; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:44:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:44:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Craig Struble Reply-To: cstruble@vt.edu To: Ollivier Robert cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Install Wish In-Reply-To: <199504200829.KAA02707@blaise.ibp.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Redirecting the ncftp input from /dev/null to cause it to exit on > > failure fixes this. Looping can be provided with a shell "while". > > > > Ncftp has a "-r" switch to re-"dial" and a "-d number" to specify the > delay between attemps. I think I was misunderstood. I meant in the install utility for 2.x. When an FTP fails, a nice bright dialog box saying "ftp to ... failed" and my only option is to hit the "Ok" button, when I'm frantically saying "No, no, no, give me another chance!!!!". I know I can use the ncftp -r option once I have things installed or if I shell out during the installation process, but I really would like to keep it smooth and simple; it's been one of the nicest things about installing the 2.x releases. See ya later, Craig -- Craig Struble, Grad Student |_ Virginia Tech, cstruble@vt.edu |_ What is this? http://acm.vt.edu/~cstruble/ |_ /\*([^\*]|\*+[^\*/])*\*+/ Ask for PGP Public Key | From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 05:12:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA26830 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:12:54 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA26824 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:12:47 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA05815 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:45:54 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA17965; 20 Apr 95 06:35:27 CDT (Thu) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA17962; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:35:26 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504201135.GAA17962@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in , Berkeley. To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:35:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 19, 95 08:37:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 342 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > majority of the source. I've said that the 2.0 release was an > > aberration brought on by the USL settlement and the need to get > > something out there once 1.1.5 could no longer be distributed. > As 1.1.5.1 is still available via FTP, I don't that is entirely true. Again, I beg of you, is PORTS-1.1.5.1 still available anywhere? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 05:13:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA26846 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:13:23 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA26838 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:13:17 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA05845 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:48:30 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA18144; 20 Apr 95 06:47:47 CDT (Thu) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA18141; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:47:47 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504201147.GAA18141@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: agl@mac.glas.apc.org (Anthony Graphics) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:47:46 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 20, 95 10:50:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 428 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > |> work on the price of the WS vs the Price of a good PC > ^^ > AXP PCI 33 board costs approx 1100 USD with 166 mhz Alpha in the States And OSF/1 costs over $1500 (or rather, the price difference for OSF/1 is over $1500). Since you're pretty much stuck with NT for your AXP PCI 33 if you want to benefit from the price, I class it as a PC rather than a WS. Hopefully NetBSD will change that. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 05:14:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA26875 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:14:40 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA26859 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:14:26 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA05820 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:46:02 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA17995; 20 Apr 95 06:44:18 CDT (Thu) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA17992; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:44:18 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504201144.GAA17992@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:44:17 -0500 (CDT) Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504200741.RAA06984@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 20, 95 05:41:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 657 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > sd0 is the first scsi disk > > c0t0l0 is the disk at scsi bus 0 target 0 lun 0 > This would defeat one advantage of devfs - reduction of clutter in /dev. Why? Only the one you're using would be symlinked into dev. If you're running an unattended machine you don't want disks drifting to new locations when one goes down. > Why decides how h/w/ devices are mapped to ttys? So if your COM2 board goes out you don't find your unattended SLIP connection trying to talk to your Postscript laser printer and you've got a non-callbacked getty suddenly talking to your V.34 modem. In an unattended machine the BSD "device drift" problem is a real concern. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 05:16:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA26919 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:16:09 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA26910 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:16:04 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA05809 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:45:31 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA17790; 20 Apr 95 06:30:16 CDT (Thu) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA17787; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:30:15 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504201130.GAA17787@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:30:15 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199504200302.NAA31880@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 20, 95 01:02:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 659 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> /dev/driver_name/all_devices_handled_by_this_drive_in_one_directory is > >> easiest for drivers, but not quite what is wanted by programs. > >Why not? > To handle /dev/sio/*, /dev/cx/*, /dev/ity/* and /dev/cy/*, ps would have > to know that the set of tty drivers is precisely { sio, cx, ity, cy }. Ah, that's the two-views thing again. *Some* programs (PS, DF) need to know what all the devices of a given type are. Other times you want to know what all the devices of a given driver are, or you want something more specific like having /dev/uha/c0t1l0n because /dev/tape/0n might be your QIC if you didn't have the external DAT powered up at boot. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 05:27:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA27045 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:27:48 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA27039 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 05:27:45 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA22787; Thu, 20 Apr 95 05:24:03 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s1vE9-0005PIC; Thu, 20 Apr 95 14:20 MSZ Message-Id: To: mul%lab1033.berlin.ptb.de@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (m_ulbrich) Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from mul@lab1033.berlin.ptb.de (m_ulbrich) of Thu, 20 Apr 95 13:36:29 O. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN support? Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 12:20:57 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does FreeBSD in its current state support any ISDN Interface cards? in /sys/gnu/isdn there's support for some Dr. Neuhaus card, I don't know off-hand exactly which one it is. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 06:08:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA27668 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:08:24 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA27660 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:08:23 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA24592; Thu, 20 Apr 95 06:00:33 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s1vnY-0005PIC; Thu, 20 Apr 95 14:57 MSZ Message-Id: Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 14:57 MSZ From: garyj@rks32.pcs.dec.com (Gary Jennejohn) To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In-reply-to: Message from J Wunsch of Thu, 20 Apr 95 08:43:49 O. Reply-to: gj@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. >> Hmmm... if you'll bring the beer, joerg, I'll be *sure* to come! :-) > > If someone pays me the flight, i don't have a problem to take a rack > (? - ,,Kasten'') of beer with me. :) > that's a case of beer. > I can even get two, one with dark beer, and one with light beer. (No, > not with `lite'. :) Weissbier, Weissbier ! (better known as Weizen in the North of Germany, those Nordlichter just don't have a clue :) Otherwise, I won't come. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 07:32:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA28975 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:32:39 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA28969 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:32:35 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA26266; Thu, 20 Apr 95 07:26:40 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA19731; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:26:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA10181; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:28:21 GMT Message-Id: <199504201028.KAA10181@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: Terry Lambert , "Andreas S. Wetzel" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:40:40 MST." X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:28:21 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I believe the DECServers, if downloaded by a VAX, will also support > > non-LAT CTERM protocol connections -- CTERM is much easier to implement, > > and you can buy the documentation for it and the underlying protocols > > for about $180.00 for all the books you would need. Jaye is correct. No DECserver ever supported CTERM. The DECSA (aka PLUTO which was a PDP-11/24) was initially supposed to run CTERM but performance was so bad that LAT was substituted. Note that all the non-proprietary Phase IV specs are at ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/DECnet/PhaseIV/ No need to speed any money whatsoever. > > I don't think anyone is planning on reverse engineering LAT and then > > releasing it publically any time soon; DECNet would be a nice thing > > for BSD to have, though... > > I think Matt Thomas one time rambled about maybe doing this. I have > no idea how complex it would be. Implementing, and actually having > to use NCP gives me the cold sweats I have about half a DECnet kernel written (source compatible with DECnet-ULTRIX at the socket and library level). One of the problems is that none of the LAN drivers support multiple physical addresses. Nor is there is a way to enable a different physical address. An interesting question is whether ncp/nml should be implemented or should a more "BSDish" utility be invented (ifconfig for decnet?). An advantage of ncp/nml is that is doesn't require changes to the host operating system. But ncp/nml might be daunting to new a user, but would a new inteface be any less daunting? The minimally useful applications that need to be present are cterm ("set host" / dlogin), dap (nft/dcp/copy), and mail-11 (the utek mail-11 software can be used). Maybe once my work of drivers tapers off I can get back to DECnet... Too little time, too much to do, [And speaking of LAT, as proof of concept I wrote a user-mode LAT daemon. It's implemented around select and non-blocking I/O (conceptually it could be considered to be AST based since all the main loop does is select and then dispatches for various fd). The network I/O is done using the Berkeley Packet Filter and the tty stuff is done through ptys. Unlike most network virtual terminal daemons, the LAT daemon controls multiple ptys.] Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com U*X Networking WWW URL: http://ftp.dec.com/%7Ethomas/ Digital Equipment Corporation Disclaimer: This message reflects my Littleton, MA own warped views, etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 07:37:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA29097 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:37:32 -0700 Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29090 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:37:27 -0700 Received: from [192.245.33.12] by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.8/1.0A) id CAA24971; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 02:58:00 -0400 X-Sender: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 02:26:55 -0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, peter@nmti.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> AIEEEEEEEEEE! >> >> Our hardware guy just dropped this off on me, along with the comment "I guess >> we should have asked you before buying this". >> >> No kidding. It looks irretreivably DOS/Windows-ish. > >Looks like Peter Dufault is your only man! :-) > >> Any way to use FreeBSD or something similar to hook this up to a real O/S, >> or will we have to add this to the growing collection of dedicated Windows >> boxes collecting like DDT high in the corporate food chain? > >Have you tried scsi(1) for whacking commands at it? I assume it >documents some of them in the tech specs? > > Jordan Actually, I have one as well (the Pinnacle Micro RCD-1000). You can get Windows or Macintosh s/w to write to it. I've never hooked the thing up to a FreeBSD box before. I've got about 10 blanks laying here, but at $15 per blank I'm afraid of wasting $150 to find out that I used the wrong 'disklabel' option, or the wrong 'newfs' parameter. I would be very willing to test out the worm code if someone is in for a small amount of hand holding. :) -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 07:49:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA29409 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:49:02 -0700 Received: from netserv1.free.net (netserv1.free.net [193.124.3.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29400 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:48:54 -0700 Received: from itp.ac.ru by netserv1.free.net (8.6.9/5) with ESMTP id SAA26310; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:48:36 +0400 Received: from localhost (sakr@localhost) by itp.ac.ru (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA24102; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:47:03 +0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:47:03 +0400 From: "Serge A. Krashakov" Posted-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:47:03 +0400 Message-Id: <199504201447.SAA24102@itp.ac.ru> To: questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: 2.0-950412-SNAP on 386DX Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Today I tried to reinstall FreeBSD-2.0-950412-SNAP on 386SX, previously running FreeBSD-1.0.2. Basic installation proceeded O'k, but when I recompiled kernel for it, I have got: loading kernel kern_sysctl.o: Undefined symbol `_hw_float' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 I examined file kern_sysctl.c and it really have this unreferenced symbol. Could somebody tell me what I shall do. My computer: 386DX40 without coprocessor, 170Mb IDE disk CP170A, 8Mb RAM, SVGA, 3 Ethernet controllers, and 4 I/O ports. Config file: # # ICPH -- ICPH machine # # $Id: ICPH(KS),v 1.01 1994/01/31 01:28:07 rgrimes Exp $ # machine "i386" cpu "I386_CPU" ident ICP maxusers 10 options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast File System #options NFS #Network File System #options MSDOSFS #MSDOS File System options PROCFS #Process Filesystem #options "COMPAT_42" options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 #options "TCP_COMPAT_42" #TCP/IP compatible with 4.2 #options XSERVER #Xserver #options UCONSOLE #X Console support #options BOUNCE_BUFFERS options GATEWAY #Host is a Gateway (forwards packets) #options MROUTING #options IPFIREWALL #options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #options IPACCT config kernel root on wd0 swap on wd0 controller isa0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 vector mcdintr #device pc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr #device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr #For high speed serial lines. device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM3" tty irq 11 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM4" tty irq 10 vector siointr device sio2 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio3 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr #device lpt0 at isa? port "IO_LPT1" tty irq 7 vector lptintr #device lpa0 at isa? port "IO_LPT1" tty #device lpa1 at isa? port "IO_LPT2" tty device ed0 at isa? port 0x340 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 12 iomem 0xd0000 vector edintr device ed2 at isa? port 0x320 net irq 7 iomem 0xcc000 vector edintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 2 pseudo-device pty 16 #pseudo-device bpfilter 4 pseudo-device speaker pseudo-device swappager pseudo-device vnodepager pseudo-device devpager #pseudo-device gzip # pseudo-device snp 3 ---------------------------- I tried various configuration but all of them failed when compiling with the same error. Serge Krashakov From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 07:57:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA29590 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:57:50 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29584 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:57:35 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA19553; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:52:45 +1000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:52:45 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504201452.AAA19553@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@bonkers.taronga.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > sd0 is the first scsi disk >> > c0t0l0 is the disk at scsi bus 0 target 0 lun 0 >> This would defeat one advantage of devfs - reduction of clutter in /dev. >Why? Only the one you're using would be symlinked into dev. If you're running >an unattended machine you don't want disks drifting to new locations when one >goes down. Always reference c0t0l0 to avoid drift. >> Why decides how h/w/ devices are mapped to ttys? ^^^oops, I meant `Who' >So if your COM2 board goes out you don't find your unattended SLIP connection >trying to talk to your Postscript laser printer and you've got a non-callbacked >getty suddenly talking to your V.34 modem. In an unattended machine the BSD >"device drift" problem is a real concern. Again, always reference an unambiguous device-specific name. I think it would be easier to teach ps (etc.) to handle such names than to map everything to tty* since the mapping would have to be site-specific. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 08:12:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA29933 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:12:37 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA29927 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:12:36 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10561; Thu, 20 Apr 95 10:11:37 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504201511.AA10561@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: ISDN support? To: mul@lab1033.berlin.ptb.de (m_ulbrich) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:11:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504201136.AA07174@hamilton.lab1033.berlin.ptb.de> from "m_ulbrich" at Apr 20, 95 01:36:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 976 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi there! > > I'm currently thinking about upgrading my analog phone line at > home to ISDN :-) - especially because the german TELECOM makes > finally offers which are worth to take into consideration (IMHO). > > A major point to be checked before proceeding any further is: > > Does FreeBSD in its current state support any ISDN Interface cards? > If not, are there activities in this direction and who is involved > in them (maybe, I can offer help)? Hello Michael, My own experience is with external ISDN terminal adaptors - connect one to a serial port and it looks somewhat like a modem. Works great, maybe not what you're looking for, but it's at least a solution if you don't find any ISDN cards (the selection isn't great from what I understand). ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 08:15:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA29992 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:15:33 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA29972 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:15:12 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA20082; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:10:22 +1000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:10:22 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504201510.BAA20082@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: questions@FreeBSD.org, sakr@itp.ac.ru Subject: Re: 2.0-950412-SNAP on 386DX Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Today I tried to reinstall FreeBSD-2.0-950412-SNAP on 386SX, >previously running FreeBSD-1.0.2. >Basic installation proceeded O'k, but when I recompiled kernel for it, >I have got: >loading kernel >kern_sysctl.o: Undefined symbol `_hw_float' referenced from text segment >*** Error code 1 >I examined file kern_sysctl.c and it really have this unreferenced symbol. > >#device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr ^Uncomment this Device npx0 is mandatory because it is the only place where hw_float is defined. This is a bug. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 08:18:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA00149 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:18:39 -0700 Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA00143 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:18:36 -0700 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA11847; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:10:11 +0200 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199504201510.RAA11847@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in , Berkeley. To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:10:10 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201135.GAA17962@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 20, 95 06:35:26 am Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 234 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter da Silva wrote: > > > As 1.1.5.1 is still available via FTP, I don't that is entirely true. > > Again, I beg of you, is PORTS-1.1.5.1 still available anywhere? gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/FreeBSD/ports/ports-1.1.5.1 tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 08:27:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA00392 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:27:53 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA00386 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:27:52 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10609; Thu, 20 Apr 95 10:23:52 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504201523.AA10609@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Digiboard driver ? To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:23:52 -0500 (CDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201045.GAA09617@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 20, 95 06:45:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 924 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This would have to be REAL RECENTLY, like within the last two weeks. > Are you sure about this, Julian? > > This makes 7 requests for Digi support in about 6 weeks. Make that 8. In particular, if I can offload some of the interrupt loads that I typically deal with onto smart cards, I could stop burning horsepower on trivial applications (386DX/40's as PPP routers, bah!) Not that I *really* mind, but it seems to me like 16[45]50 serial ports are in the same class of peripheral as IDE: undesirable. :-) If somebody can write a driver that actually exploits the abilities of the Digi intelligent hardware to offload some of the interrupts and processing onto the controller, they have _my_ vote! ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 08:44:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA00704 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:44:23 -0700 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA00698 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:44:22 -0700 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id IAA29447; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:43:05 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199504201543.IAA29447@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: garyj@rks32.pcs.dec.com (Gary Jennejohn) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:43:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Gary Jennejohn" at Apr 20, 95 02:57:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 546 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Hmmm... if you'll bring the beer, joerg, I'll be *sure* to come! :-) > > > > If someone pays me the flight, i don't have a problem to take a rack > > (? - ,,Kasten'') of beer with me. :) > > that's a case of beer. > > > I can even get two, one with dark beer, and one with light beer. (No, > > not with `lite'. :) > > Weissbier, Weissbier ! (better known as Weizen in the North of Germany, > those Nordlichter just don't have a clue :) Otherwise, I won't come. Actually, the reference was intended to Augustiner Brau, right joerg? :> From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 09:47:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA02152 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 09:47:59 -0700 Received: from singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.204.56]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA02140 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 09:47:55 -0700 Received: (from cstruble@localhost) by singularity.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA24976; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:49:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:49:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Craig Struble Reply-To: cstruble@vt.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: pthreads Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have put my working version of pthreads up on freefall.cdrom.com in the /incoming directory. The file is named 'pthreads-1_60_beta2_FreeBSD.tar.gz'. There is also a README file called 'pthreads-1_60b2.README'. Basically it just says here it is and here's where it's configured to install. I recommend against reconfiguring the installation unless you are proficient at editing makefiles and such. It really is a mess, and people on the pthreads mailing list have had the same problems I ran into. Hopefully it'll be cleaned up in the future. Can someone move the file to a reasonable location and announce that it's been moved? You can report problems to the author. I didn't make any source changes to get things working, only configuration changes. Enjoy! See ya later, Craig -- Craig Struble, Grad Student |_ Virginia Tech, cstruble@vt.edu |_ What is this? http://acm.vt.edu/~cstruble/ |_ /\*([^\*]|\*+[^\*/])*\*+/ Ask for PGP Public Key | From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 09:51:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA02204 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 09:51:13 -0700 Received: from nomad.osmre.gov (nomad.osmre.gov [192.243.129.244]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA02198 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 09:51:09 -0700 Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by nomad.osmre.gov (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA18678; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:47:13 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:47:13 -0400 From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199504201647.MAA18678@nomad.osmre.gov> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Release stability Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Features are nice to have but the measure of any operating system is how dependable it is. In my book features account for about 20% and dependability (in which I include both predictability and stability) about 80% of the "quality" of a release. Please, please, please do not compromise the quality of 2.1. If I remember correctly, the CSRG releases were "odd number == features added, even number == stable versions of the odd number" (actually, maybe it was the other way around :-). This scheme had a lot going for it from the consumer's POV. I suspect it also moderated the expectations of the developers, at least during the bug-fix release cycle. Has (re-)adopting this philosophy been considered by the core group? Glen Foster From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:29:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02871 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:29:18 -0700 Received: from nosferatu.cas.usf.edu (nosferatu.cas.usf.edu [131.247.31.155]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA02865 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:29:16 -0700 Received: (mephisto@localhost) by nosferatu.cas.usf.edu (8.6.8/8.3) id NAA20988; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:31:20 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:31:20 -0500 (EST) From: NatureBoy To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: TIA running on 3/22 snap Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a note to say that a coworker of mine bought TIA for BSDI and slapped it on his 3/22 snapshot machine and put it through it's paces as a slip server. His report is that it works great slipping in from home with his laptop running running windoz. No info as to FreeBSD's ability to use it as a slip server. The only problem (sorta) he found with it is that all icmp packets and some udp packets fail. Joseph Orthoefer From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:34:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02976 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:34:03 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02970 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:34:01 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25462; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:27:26 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504201727.AA25462@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: gene@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (Gene Stark) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:27:26 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504200413.AAA05141@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> from "Gene Stark" at Apr 20, 95 00:13:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, this is serious stuff which I think bears on basic philosophy (actually a hell of a lot more basic than the NetBSD vs. FreeBSD crap). Because of this, I'm going to use words that mean exactly what I want to say, so I appologize in advance to the non-native English speakers that I'm probably going to be sending scrambling to their dictionaries. > I can understand the pressures from WC to get a decent update of their > product, but so far the releases have all followed the pattern of > a flurry of stuff going into the system, followed by a an extremely > foreshortened test phase (hardly enough time for most of us to even > do a build world), followed by production of a CD-ROM. I would really > hate to see this pattern produce another CD-ROM similar to the 2.0 version. This is indeed an issue. One of overzealous engineers. > Perhaps this idea is a bit radical, but I think it would be beneficial > to separate the technical development goals of FreeBSD from the pressures > to get a CD to market. A method I have been applying to get decent > snapshots to use is to build the world regularly, observing the general > stability of the system and reading the mailing lists to assess the > frequency of changes to key portions of the system. When the frequency > of key source changes appears to have reached a local minimum and the > number of serious instability reports seems small, I try to roll a > snapshot. > > Perhaps the right thing to do would be to set an approximate target date, > then charge the release engineer with the task of monitoring the source > changes as I described above. When a decent snapshot is obtained near > the target date, it can then be subjected to beta testing for two or three > weeks to fix the most serious bugs, after which a CD can be mastered. > Other than the fact that the approximate target date is known in advance, > the release engineer need not inform anyone before the snapshot is rolled. > Indeed, this would likely promote last minute bugs. The release engineer > would then have to be careful to accept only solid bug fixes during > the beta phase. This is surely not the way to resolve the issue. Having been a commercial release engineer (in growing a company from 2 employees to 24 employees, one wears *many* hats), I can say that there *must* be a coupling between release engineering and feature engineering. The above plan would, I think, result in many more "fixed in current" or "just download current" responses to problems: this is precisely the problem with the 2.0 release. Let it be forever noted that 2.0 was an exception. It was a rush job that was done to appease legal requirements and to keep the FreeBSD efforts afloat at the same time avoiding legal action by USL. It had the nice side effect of resolving the legal issues for Walnut Creek at the same time, which can only be a good thing, given the backing they have provided. It was not the result of problems endemic to a release process. The main issue that has been a problem with the release process for me in the past has been the desire of engineers see their babies go out to a grateful public as quickly as possible. In this, it is the release engineers job to dictate a feature freeze at some point prior to the actual "ship date" (I will explain quoting this in a minute) such that an adequate beta cycle and critical bug fixing can take place. In other words, it is the release engineers job to stand in the way of feature creep too close to a release date. I think the thing that is so often misunderstood is that it is not absolutely necessary to jam all the latest developing technologies that you have into a product. You *can* and *should* save those that are immature for later releases. The date push out that has occurred so far on 2.1 that has made the consideration of 2.0.5 even conscionable at all is probably to be blamed on the addition of the slice code (among other things), which is a significant enough change that it requires a longer beta cycle. More simply, it's probably bad that it was included because it was not ready to include by the time a feature freeze should have occurred. Please do not confuse this; the fact is that I think the code is *critical* to the future of FreeBSD. It was just not ready to be included. Let's resolve to consider the releases as something *desirable to the FreeBSD group as a whole*. I think that people are forgetting this; not to pick on anyone in particular (sorry, but you brought it up so I will use you as an example), but the message above is an indication that some people are on the verge of forgetting this. FreeBSD is released *for* FreeBSD, and regular intervals for the releases are a Good Thing(tm). The regular releases are *NOT* the result of pressure by Walnut Creek to bend some more desirable release schedule to their will. (Here's the explanation of "ship date") That Walnut Creek CDROM has a ship date for their product, and that this happens to be related to a release engineering cycle being completed on a CDROM means that it is loosely coupled to FreeBSD's "ship date" (since the packaging into an installable format must occur after the code is ready to be installed). So what is being confused here is the fact that with or without Walnut Creek CDROM involved, FreeBSD should be making and *keeping* a regular release schedule (whether this is offset from purely yearly quarters to avoid vacations, etc. is another matter, and one that *does* bear discussion). I think that Walnut Creek, of course, "gets first dibs" on making the resulting code into a CDROM and selling it commercially because their people are involved in the project, and their equipment is under the project. Note that there is no formal arrangement, and this is an issue of timing; it happens that Walut Creek is a project "insider", and so has an advantage over those who are not. BUT THE IDEA THAT THEY ARE ADVERSELY INFLUINCING FREEBSD BY IMPOSING A SCHEDULE THAT WOULD NOT OTHERWISE BE IMPOSED ANYWAY IS WRONG. So lets return to the internal feature freeze dates, and the internal release engineering that is associated with them, and leave Walnut Creek out it as a topic of the discussion. There have to be regular releases. This is one of the benefits of FreeBSD. This means that there will have to be freeze dates to allow for an adequate beta cycle, and it also means that there will (inevitably) be rushes to "get code in under the wire". And that's just the way it is. Far from retarding the developement process, I think the rush of extra effort around freeze dates does not represent the normal level of developement effort taking place -- it represents a higher level of effort, as people strain to get their babies in under the wire. It is a Good Thing(tm). Yes, this results in "premature babies"... that's what the beta cycle is there for. It is a safety net, and the release engineer is the guy who mans the net. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:39:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03121 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:39:32 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA03072 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:38:46 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25502; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:31:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504201731.AA25502@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: tanel@juku.li.ttu.ee (Tanel Kuusk) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:31:57 MDT Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, julian@freefall.cdrom.com, fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504200513.AA19017@juku.li.ttu.ee> from "Tanel Kuusk" at Apr 20, 95 08:13:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > /dev/ptm/... master pty > > > /dev/pts/... slave pty > > > > I think these could be better named. /dev/pty/{m,s}/? > > Well, /dev/pts/... is more like SVR4 does. BTW, are we talking about normal > /dev here or something like Sun's /devices? Yes, it's more like SVR4. It's also more like AIX. The point in doing that is to allow dynamic cloning of the devices so that you eliminate the pty name change and size limit crap that has persisted on most systems and leads to ever more complex code in xterm and telnet and other places as machine get big enough to handle more than 16 PTY's, then more than 32, then.... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:41:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03224 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:41:12 -0700 Received: from cs.pdx.edu (root@cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.183]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03218 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:41:11 -0700 Received: from sirius.cs.pdx.edu (root@sirius.cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.199]) by cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-12/23/94-P) with ESMTP id KAA19318; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:40:59 -0700 for Received: from localhost (jrb@localhost.cs.pdx.edu [127.0.0.1]) by sirius.cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-9/18/94-C) with ESMTP id KAA18858; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:39:42 -0700 for Message-Id: <199504201739.KAA18858@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: note on gus/microphone Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:39:39 -0700 From: James Binkley Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a gus card (3.7) and have been recently wondering why the microphone did nothing; e.g., % cat < /dev/audio > out got 0... bytes. Actually, that still doesn't work, but I learned one small painful fact that someone else might find useful. This is the case of the *wrong* mic and the *right* mic. The wrong mic was naturally the 1st one I grabbed. Came with a sound blaster that my wife had at home in her pc. Doesn't work with the gus card. The proof was it didn't work with that nasty old windows "sound recorder" "accessory". The right mike came from radio shack. It works with sound recorder and although I haven't had much time to test it with vat yet, it may work there too. I still don't know the actual hw difference between the two. Maybe pre-amp in one versus none in the other? This suggests that buying a mic at a computer store that is SB compatible if you have a gus may not be the right thing to do. goto radio_shack; regards, Jim Binkley jrb@cs.pdx.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:42:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03259 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:42:32 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA03253 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:42:30 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25542; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:36:08 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504201736.AA25542@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] thanks for the thoughts To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:36:08 MDT In-Reply-To: <199504200645.IAA02094@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 20, 95 08:45:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > terry was correct in most of his comments though as usual there was the > > obligatory 20% that I couldn't make heads nor tails of.. > > Ay, and i've always thought that's due to my miserable understanding > of english, eh! :--) It's not "obligatory", it's a *bonus*. Too bad you didn't act quicly enough to get the free Ginsu knives... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:50:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03468 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:50:57 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA03462 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:50:55 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25597; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:44:22 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504201744.AA25597@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? To: osyjm@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:44:21 MDT Cc: root@deadline.snafu.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Apr 19, 95 10:40:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I believe the DECServers, if downloaded by a VAX, will also support > > non-LAT CTERM protocol connections -- CTERM is much easier to implement, > > and you can buy the documentation for it and the underlying protocols > > for about $180.00 for all the books you would need. > > This is incorrect. If you have a DEC server 200, you are stuck with LAT > only. If you have 700's, or 900TM's, you can get LAT, SLIp, PPP, and > a couple others, but no DECnet. Oh, bletch, you're right; this was the modem server that I worked on that did that. Sorryy. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:56:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03631 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:56:23 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA03624 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:56:21 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25642; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:49:56 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504201749.AA25642@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:49:55 MDT Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504201048.GAA09638@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 20, 95 06:48:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The Linux driver is copyleft and (allegedly) doesn't exploit all > of the features. I'm real hesitant about looking at the Linux > driver until we're sure that no one is going to sign an NDA with > Digi and write a complete object-only driver. > > In spite of the availability of a Linux driver Digi requires signing an > NDA to get access to the documentation for the intelligent boards. > > Is anyone interested in a shareware object only driver? This would only work if the driver was a loadable module AND the driver was undel LGPL instead of GPL so that loading as a kernel module satisfies the relinking requirements of LGPL. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:57:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03673 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:57:14 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA03659 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:56:54 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04209; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:53:31 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA17872 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:53:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA03268 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:59:53 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504201659.SAA03268@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Jordan's house party :) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:59:53 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Gary Jennejohn" at Apr 20, 95 02:57:00 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 598 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > If someone pays me the flight, i don't have a problem to take a rack > > (? - ,,Kasten'') of beer with me. :) > > > that's a case of beer. Yup, i remember that i've heard this before. tnx. > > I can even get two, one with dark beer, and one with light beer. (No, > > not with `lite'. :) > > Weissbier, Weissbier ! Ok, one case of Weißbier and one of ordinary black beer. And a huge amount of coffee for Jordan. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 10:59:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03804 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:59:07 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA03797 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:59:06 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14618(6)>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:58:14 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:58:07 -0700 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/19/95 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Install Wish In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 18:43:55 PDT." <9504200143.AA21826@cs.weber.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:57:52 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr20.105807pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <9504200143.AA21826@cs.weber.edu> you write: >Redirecting the ncftp input from /dev/null to cause it to exit on >failure fixes this. Looping can be provided with a shell "while". ncftp does exit on failure (or, at least, when I was installing SNAP-950322 at IETF it did), and the install script doesn't notice the failure and goes on. I spent lots of hours trying to figure out how to recover from having installed everything *but* the bindist. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 11:10:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04240 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:10:02 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04228 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:10:00 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25719; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:58:21 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504201758.AA25719@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:58:21 MDT Cc: agl@mac.glas.apc.org, rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201147.GAA18141@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 20, 95 06:47:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > |> work on the price of the WS vs the Price of a good PC > > ^^ > > AXP PCI 33 board costs approx 1100 USD with 166 mhz Alpha in the States > > And OSF/1 costs over $1500 (or rather, the price difference for OSF/1 is > over $1500). > > Since you're pretty much stuck with NT for your AXP PCI 33 if you want to > benefit from the price, I class it as a PC rather than a WS. Hopefully > NetBSD will change that. My neighbor (well, 5 minutes, anyway) is doing the Linux port to that box. You are not limited to NT. Neither FreeBSD nor NetBSD is poised to port easily, even though NetBSD has an Alpha port, since neither system has dealt with the issue of a generic bus attach mechanism. There was some argument recently, actually that this type of thing should be avoided -- I think this is probably a bad idea. I was recently involved in some NetBSD discussions with, among others, Charles. As usual, I wanted a more radical change than people were willing to buy off on initially. 8-). NetBSD will be moving in the right direction, anyway. I think all it would take is one architecture port to force the issue for FreeBSD. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 11:10:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04250 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:10:12 -0700 Received: from unlisys.unlisys.NET (unlisys.unlisys.net [194.64.15.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04244 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:10:08 -0700 Received: by unlisys.unlisys.NET from deadline.snafu.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 [@@]) id m0s20f1-0000HvC; Thu, 20 Apr 95 20:09 MET DST Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0s20ew-000IzNC; Thu, 20 Apr 95 20:08 MET DST (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? To: matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:08:58 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: osyjm@cdsnet.net, terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201028.KAA10181@whydos.lkg.dec.com> from "Matt Thomas" at Apr 20, 95 10:28:21 am Organization: -D-E-A-D-L-I-N-E- Public access UN*X system - 13347 Berlin. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 945 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- Matt Thomas writes: ] I have about half a DECnet kernel written (source compatible with ] DECnet-ULTRIX at the socket and library level). One of the problems ] is that none of the LAN drivers support multiple physical addresses. ] Nor is there is a way to enable a different physical address. For what are multiple physical addresses needed when using LAT? Am I doing right when thinking of ethernet-address when reading the words 'physical address' ? The reason why I was asking for LAT support is that I have some DECserver 200/MC which I supposedly wanted to get work with FreeBSD. Mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 11:14:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04376 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:14:04 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04368 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:14:02 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25620; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:47:29 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504201747.AA25620@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? To: matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:47:29 MDT Cc: osyjm@cdsnet.net, root@deadline.snafu.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201028.KAA10181@whydos.lkg.dec.com> from "Matt Thomas" at Apr 20, 95 10:28:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have about half a DECnet kernel written (source compatible with > DECnet-ULTRIX at the socket and library level). One of the problems > is that none of the LAN drivers support multiple physical addresses. > Nor is there is a way to enable a different physical address. Tell me this can be distributed as free software... Do you really require multiple physical addresses, or just need to reprogram the one physical address to match the DECNet address? I thought multiple addresses were only necessary to put up cluster specific addresses. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 11:38:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA05501 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:38:21 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA05490 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:38:19 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA21641; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:30:56 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA20826; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:30:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA11104; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:32:53 GMT Message-Id: <199504201432.OAA11104@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Cc: osyjm@cdsnet.net, root@deadline.snafu.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:47:29 MDT." <9504201747.AA25620@cs.weber.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:32:52 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have about half a DECnet kernel written (source compatible with > > DECnet-ULTRIX at the socket and library level). One of the problems > > is that none of the LAN drivers support multiple physical addresses. > > Nor is there is a way to enable a different physical address. > > Tell me this can be distributed as free software... That's my goal. But it's take me awhile to write it all. > Do you really require multiple physical addresses, or just need to > reprogram the one physical address to match the DECNet address? Since FDDI allows multiple physical addresses (as does the DEC PCI Ethernet chips), it would be nice to simply add another physical address. > I thought multiple addresses were only necessary to put up cluster > specific addresses. Not even required for that, but if DECnet doesn't have to change the physical address used by IP and other protocols, so much the better. I'm think I'm going to use the ifalias support and extend it to AF_LINK sockaddrs. So if SIOCAIFADDR fails, then I'll fall back to SIOCIFADDR. The worst thing is that this means all the drivers will have to change to support DECnet. I'll be sure to make my drivers support DECnet but I'll leave the other drivers to others. My goal is to minimize the changes required to the system to support DECnet. Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com U*X Networking WWW URL: http://ftp.dec.com/%7Ethomas/ Digital Equipment Corporation Disclaimer: This message reflects my Littleton, MA own warped views, etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 11:42:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA05751 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:42:39 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA05745 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:42:38 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA15087; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:41:08 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504201841.LAA15087@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? To: matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, osyjm@cdsnet.net, root@deadline.snafu.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201432.OAA11104@whydos.lkg.dec.com> from "Matt Thomas" at Apr 20, 95 02:32:52 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 665 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm think I'm going to use the ifalias support and extend it to AF_LINK > sockaddrs. So if SIOCAIFADDR fails, then I'll fall back to SIOCIFADDR. > > The worst thing is that this means all the drivers will have to change > to support DECnet. I'll be sure to make my drivers support DECnet > but I'll leave the other drivers to others. > > My goal is to minimize the changes required to the system to support DECnet. You should be able to add it to the generic ethernet code... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 12:14:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA06768 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:14:49 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA06761 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:14:47 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <354>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:26:55 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:26:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: NatureBoy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: TIA running on 3/22 snap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, NatureBoy wrote: > Just a note to say that a coworker of mine bought TIA for BSDI and > slapped it on his 3/22 snapshot machine and put it through it's paces as > a slip server. His report is that it works great slipping in from home > with his laptop running running windoz. No info as to FreeBSD's > ability to use it as a slip server. The only problem (sorta) he found > with it is that all icmp packets and some udp packets fail. TIA just doesn't support ICMP. This is a design issue. The FreeBSD sliplogin actually works well. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 12:19:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA06873 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:19:39 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA06865 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:19:37 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA15191; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:19:25 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504201919.MAA15191@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! To: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: from "Mark J. Taylor" at Apr 20, 95 02:26:55 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1234 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk yes, but is it SCSI? > > >> AIEEEEEEEEEE! > >> > >> Our hardware guy just dropped this off on me, along with the comment "I guess > >> we should have asked you before buying this". > >> > >> No kidding. It looks irretreivably DOS/Windows-ish. > > > >Looks like Peter Dufault is your only man! :-) > > > >> Any way to use FreeBSD or something similar to hook this up to a real O/S, > >> or will we have to add this to the growing collection of dedicated Windows > >> boxes collecting like DDT high in the corporate food chain? > > > >Have you tried scsi(1) for whacking commands at it? I assume it > >documents some of them in the tech specs? > > > > Jordan > > Actually, I have one as well (the Pinnacle Micro RCD-1000). You can get > Windows or Macintosh s/w to write to it. > > I've never hooked the thing up to a FreeBSD box before. I've got about 10 > blanks laying here, but at $15 per blank I'm afraid of wasting $150 to find > out that I used the wrong 'disklabel' option, or the wrong 'newfs' > parameter. I would be very willing to test out the worm code if someone is > in for a small amount of hand holding. :) > > > > -Mark Taylor > mtaylor@cybernet.com > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 12:30:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA07078 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:30:04 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA07072 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:30:03 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04694 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:32:02 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199504201932.PAA04694@ns1.win.net> Subject: Release stability (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:32:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1289 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Glen Foster > > If I remember correctly, the CSRG releases were "odd number == > features added, even number == stable versions of the odd number" > (actually, maybe it was the other way around :-). In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. The focus was shifted during each release to concentrate on the primary goal of that release. Customers knew what to expect in general terms. We seem to be trying to do all three simultaneously and I don't think its really possible to do. You need a release just to purely fix bugs without having to deal with new features. You also need a release where you go back and look at those inefficient new features that were put in. Ok you have them working robustly now, but can they be tuned up? Continued thanks to the FreeBSD team for a fine piece of work. I am having lots of fun with it. If it is unstable I have the source, I have copies of the snaps, its my problem. This is *different* from the commercial OS where I don't have the source and it is still my problem :-). Been there - done that. Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 12:34:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA07185 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:34:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA07176 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:34:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 08:49:46 +0200." <199504200649.IAA02111@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:34:44 -0700 Message-ID: <7175.798406484@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > However, _every_ release should be of some basic quality that's better > than say the average ***x release quality. We all know about 2.0, but > it should remain an exception. Yeah, what makes our job for 2.1 so > hard is the fact that 1.1.5.1 was of such a quality that it beats many > commercial systems -- and we want to have 2.1 at least as stable as > 1.1.5.1. And therein, as they say in American (and England), lies the rub. We are on the hook to make 2.1 everything 1.1.5.1 is and now it looks like we'll be doing that all the way up through June. This is only right and proper since that's genuinely how long it's going to take to do a 1.1.5.1 equivalent, but this still leaves things like the upcoming 2.0.6 unaccounted for. How do we deal with this in the future so that it's not such a mess? We have an imperative to release often, lest we fall into the same trap that the other *BSDs have (losing users after going underground for 6 months or more) and we have an imperative to release quality releases that distinguish us from some of Linux's worst attributes. I'm open to suggestions! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 12:44:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA07406 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:44:48 -0700 Received: from hermes.cybernetics.net (hermes.cybernetics.net [198.80.51.103]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA07398 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:44:43 -0700 Received: (from james@localhost) by hermes.cybernetics.net (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA00810; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:07:39 -0400 From: James Robinson Message-Id: <199504201907.PAA00810@hermes.cybernetics.net> Subject: Re: TIA running on 3/22 snap To: mephisto@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu (NatureBoy) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "NatureBoy" at Apr 20, 95 01:31:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 846 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [...] > ability to use it as a slip server. The only problem (sorta) he found > with it is that all icmp packets and some udp packets fail. > > Joseph Orthoefer > TIA doesn't do ICMP packets (there's only so much that can be done without kernel support :-) -- this is documented. A friend of mine is a TIA client using FBSD 2.0. His biggest complaint is that it is difficult for him to be a server for things like talk, mail, etc., since he's not really on the internet. But, client oriented activities are cool. Glad to hear that it works straight out of the box! James Robinson wholly endorses: FreeBSD | Zappa | Tull | Albermarle Ale | XFree86 | Seagull acoustic guitars | Quotes du Jour: "Little man, I give the watch to you." | "Hail Ants" From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 12:53:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA07596 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:53:31 -0700 Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA07590 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:53:28 -0700 Received: from [192.245.33.12] by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.8/1.0A) id QAA02475; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:22:03 -0400 X-Sender: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:53:26 -0400 To: Julian Elischer From: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, peter@nmti.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer asks: >yes, but is it SCSI? Mine is (the Pinnacle Micro RCD-1000). SCSI-2 I think. -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 13:22:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA08209 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:22:25 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA08200 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:22:21 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA15480; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:22:19 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504202022.NAA15480@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de In-Reply-To: <7175.798406484@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 20, 95 12:34:44 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 442 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > often, lest we fall into the same trap that the other *BSDs have > (losing users after going underground for 6 months or more) and we > have an imperative to release quality releases that distinguish us > from some of Linux's worst attributes. we need to put that 2.0.6 CD out ASAP! it's a definite improvement on 2.0 and can be marked as a 2.0 upgrade.... but it's gotta go out NOW > > I'm open to suggestions! :-) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 13:51:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA09297 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:51:39 -0700 Received: from linus.demon.co.uk (linus.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.220]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA09283 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:51:28 -0700 Received: (from mark@localhost) by linus.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA04046; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:27:37 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:27:37 +0100 From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <199504202027.VAA04046@linus.demon.co.uk> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/TODO-2.1 core Newsgroups: linus.freebsd.cvs In-Reply-To: Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article you write: >phk 95/04/20 01:19:49 > > Added: TODO-2.1 core > Log: > I have added this file for the entire core-team, so we don't loose issues > on the floor. Hmm, how many dumb cleanup scripts on non-FreeBSD mirrors are going to lose *that* file!? (And even "portable" scripts on FreeBSD machines...) Suggestion: mv core core-team. Mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 13:51:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA09312 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:51:58 -0700 Received: from linus.demon.co.uk (linus.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.220]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA09299 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:51:43 -0700 Received: (from mark@localhost) by linus.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA04025; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:24:27 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:24:27 +0100 From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <199504202024.VAA04025@linus.demon.co.uk> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Newsgroups: linus.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Dufault writes: > I propose what >Nate thought I proposed: two real releases per year, with branches off >the release where critical bug fixes were put, and if there were enough >critical bug fixes a bug fix release as in 2.0.5. When there are no bugs >and not enough value added new non-kernel stuff, then skip the bug fix release. > >2.0 : Release >2.0.? : Bug fix release >2.1 : Release >2.1.? : Bug fixes. I think that this, in combination with Gene's suggestion of creating a release from a branch off a "stable" snapshot, would be a real winner for people wanting to use FreeBSD in earnest. The snapshots and sup/ctm already make life wonderful for those of us who can cope with life on the bleeding edge, but truly stable releases are what enable us to recommend FreeBSD as a solution in production environments. Mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 14:11:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA10151 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:11:21 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10145 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:11:15 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id RAA04454; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:10:56 -0400 Received: (from gene@localhost) by starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA08175; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:10:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:10:31 -0400 From: Gene Stark Message-Id: <199504202110.RAA08175@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> To: cs.weber.edu!terry@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu CC: FreeBSD.org!hackers@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu In-reply-to: Terry Lambert's message of Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:27:26 MDT <9504201727.AA25462@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Let it be forever noted that 2.0 was an exception. It was a rush job >that was done to appease legal requirements and to keep the FreeBSD >efforts afloat at the same time avoiding legal action by USL. It >had the nice side effect of resolving the legal issues for Walnut Creek >at the same time, which can only be a good thing, given the backing >they have provided. > >It was not the result of problems endemic to a release process. I disagree with this, as the prior release that was burned into CD-ROM (1.1) IMHO was also an inferior release due to a rushed testing phase. Release 1.1.5.1, which is the best release to date, was essentially the result of testing and bug fixes applied to 1.1. Every time the beta phase of a release has been shrunk to zero, I have complained. I usually see everyone say "I'll *never* allow this to happen again," but by the time the of the next release, the same thing has happened again. It is my impression that the same thing is happening right now with 2.0.5. I gave out nearly all the 100 FreeBSD 1.1 CD-ROMs that Jordan kindly sent, however, as I did it I had to tell people, "If you get interested in this, you probably want to get the 1.1.5.1 version, because otherwise you will find yourself screwing around with trying to get your printer and serial ports to work, and this stuff has been fixed in 1.1.5.1." Recently, I have been telling people who have asked me about FreeBSD, "wait and get the 2.1 CD-ROM, it should be out shortly, and it looks to be pretty good." This was based on what I saw in the mailing lists, which about a month ago said "we forsee no other major functionality changes in 2.1 other than the disk slice code". But now 2.1 is going to have devfs and a bunch of other stuff that darn well looks to me like "major functionality changes." I will be sort of embarrassed if everyone I told to get the next WC CD-ROM goes and gets one that is put together in a rush job, and they all then come and ask me the equivalent of the "PPP makes my system crash" question for 2.0. My feeling is that a system version from approximately April 7 would be a good one to use as a base for 2.0.5. Check out that release, put it out for beta test, integrate bug fixes only, and burn it into the CD-ROM. - Gene Stark From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 14:20:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA10395 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:20:51 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10389 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:20:48 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id RAA04465; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:20:34 -0400 Received: (from gene@localhost) by starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA08208; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:17:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:17:46 -0400 From: Gene Stark Message-Id: <199504202117.RAA08208@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> To: cs.weber.edu!terry@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu CC: FreeBSD.org!hackers@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu In-reply-to: Terry Lambert's message of Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:27:26 MDT <9504201727.AA25462@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In this, it is the release engineers job to dictate a feature freeze > at some point prior to the actual "ship date" (I will explain quoting > this in a minute) such that an adequate beta cycle and critical bug > fixing can take place. In other words, it is the release engineers > job to stand in the way of feature creep too close to a release date. This seems logical to me. > I think the thing that is so often misunderstood is that it is not > absolutely necessary to jam all the latest developing technologies > that you have into a product. You *can* and *should* save those that > are immature for later releases. Agreed. > The date push out that has occurred so far on 2.1 that has made the > consideration of 2.0.5 even conscionable at all is probably to be > blamed on the addition of the slice code (among other things), which > is a significant enough change that it requires a longer beta cycle. > More simply, it's probably bad that it was included because it was > not ready to include by the time a feature freeze should have occurred. > > Please do not confuse this; the fact is that I think the code is > *critical* to the future of FreeBSD. It was just not ready to be > included. OK. > Let's resolve to consider the releases as something *desirable to > the FreeBSD group as a whole*. I think that people are forgetting > this; not to pick on anyone in particular (sorry, but you brought > it up so I will use you as an example), but the message above is > an indication that some people are on the verge of forgetting this. > > FreeBSD is released *for* FreeBSD, and regular intervals for the > releases are a Good Thing(tm). The regular releases are *NOT* the > result of pressure by Walnut Creek to bend some more desirable > release schedule to their will. Hmm. I don't have access to the communications between the core group, but it seemed pretty clear to me that the accelerated release of 2.0 was due to "Holy shit! Jordan's leaving for Europe and WC *really needs* to be able to process all it's backorders by Xmas. Let's skip the beta phase and get something out yesterday. I don't think the result was particularly beneficial to FreeBSD's image as a stable system, and I personally have trouble recommending that somebody buy that particular CD-ROM. > So what is being confused here is the fact that with or without > Walnut Creek CDROM involved, FreeBSD should be making and *keeping* > a regular release schedule (whether this is offset from purely > yearly quarters to avoid vacations, etc. is another matter, and > one that *does* bear discussion). I don't have a problem with this. > I think that Walnut Creek, of course, "gets first dibs" on making > the resulting code into a CDROM and selling it commercially because > their people are involved in the project, and their equipment is > under the project. Note that there is no formal arrangement, and > this is an issue of timing; it happens that Walut Creek is a project > "insider", and so has an advantage over those who are not. BUT THE > IDEA THAT THEY ARE ADVERSELY INFLUINCING FREEBSD BY IMPOSING A > SCHEDULE THAT WOULD NOT OTHERWISE BE IMPOSED ANYWAY IS WRONG. As I have said, this is not how it appears to me. I don't think anybody is doing this on purpose, but I think that is what is happening. So lets return to the internal feature freeze dates, and the internal release engineering that is associated with them, and leave Walnut Creek out it as a topic of the discussion. > Yes, this results in "premature babies"... that's what the beta > cycle is there for. It is a safety net, and the release engineer > is the guy who mans the net. This is fine, let's not succumb to whatever pressures have been making it otherwise in the past. - Gene From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 14:28:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA10587 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:28:11 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10581 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:28:10 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id OAA27034 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:24:53 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA08559; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:26:01 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA19037 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:26:01 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA03709 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:24:20 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504201924.VAA03709@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: german beer... To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:24:20 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504201543.IAA29447@seagull.rtd.com> from "Don Yuniskis" at Apr 20, 95 08:43:04 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 655 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Don Yuniskis wrote: > > > Weissbier, Weissbier ! (better known as Weizen in the North of Germany, > > those Nordlichter just don't have a clue :) Otherwise, I won't come. > > Actually, the reference was intended to Augustiner Brau, right joerg? :> Don, there's so many good beer here in germany, that the brand doesn't matter too much. Since i don't live in Bayern, i don't prefer Augustiner Bräu that much - but who cares? For you americans, i guess almost every german beer might be a good beer. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 14:32:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA10737 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:32:52 -0700 Received: from grep.cs.fsu.edu (grep.cs.fsu.edu [128.186.121.152]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10731 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:32:50 -0700 Received: by grep.cs.fsu.edu (8.6.9/56) id RAA20131; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:32:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199504202132.RAA20131@grep.cs.fsu.edu> Subject: Booting from second hard drive (SCSI) problems (Again!!) To: freebsd.hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:28:19 -0400 (EDT) From: bynum@NU.cs.fsu.edu (Mark J. Bynum) Reply-to: bynum@NU.cs.fsu.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1541 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have gone through the following steps to boot from my second drive (the first an IDE, the second a SCSI which is my FreeBSD drive): 1. I put an entry in my disktab file for the SCSI drive: qm540s|Quantum Lightning 540S:\ :dt=SCSI:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#64:ns#2048:nc#525: \ :pa#40960:oa#0:ta=4.2BSD:ba#8192:fa#1024: \ :pb#81920:ob#40960:tb=swap: \ :pc#1075649:oc#0: \ :pd#1075649:od#0: \ :pe#952320:oe#122880:te=4.2BSD:be#8192:fe#1024: 2. I changed /usr/src/sys/i386/biosboot/boot.c in the following place: from: loadstart: /***************************************************************\ * As a default set it to the first partition of the first * * floppy or hard drive * \***************************************************************/ part = unit = 0; to: loadstart: part = 0; unit = 1; 3. Did a make, and make install in that directory. 4. Lastly, I labeled the disk using the following command: disklabel -w -B -b /usr/mdec/sdboot -s /usr/mdec/bootsd sd0 qm540s After rebooting, the system would just go into an eternal reboot cycle. What I could do is at the boot prompt type "hd(1,a)/kernel" and it would boot up correctly. Seeing that after doing a make install, only sdboot and bootsd where copied into /usr/mdec I tried changing the code in boot.c back to "part=unit=0" but it did not work either. It said this time that it could not find the root filesystem sd1. That is correct in that there is no sd1, just sd0. Anybody, have a clue as to what I may be doing wrong? Thanks, Mark Bynum From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 14:42:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA11040 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:42:09 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA11034 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:42:07 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA04493; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:41:49 -0400 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA15746; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:41:56 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504202141.OAA15746@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: gene@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (Gene Stark) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Cc: cs.weber.edu!terry@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu, FreeBSD.org!hackers@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu In-Reply-To: <199504202110.RAA08175@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> from "Gene Stark" at Apr 20, 95 05:10:31 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 590 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > other than the disk slice code". But now 2.1 is going to have devfs and > a bunch of other stuff that darn well looks to me like "major functionality > changes." just a point to note.. devfs is an optional module that is non intrusive and by default is config'd OUT.. it's only there so we can experiment with the idea.. > My feeling is that a system version from approximately April 7 would be > a good one to use as a base for 2.0.5. Check out that release, put it > out for beta test, integrate bug fixes only, and burn it into the CD-ROM. I agree. > > - Gene Stark > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 14:52:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA11314 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:52:18 -0700 Received: from forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.33.75]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA11305 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:52:16 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA25663; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:52:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:52:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199504202152.OAA25663@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: matt@lkg.dec.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199504181820.SAA02020@whydos.lkg.dec.com> (message from Matt Thomas on Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:20:19 +0000) Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. Thanks for your info. I'll write a longer reply later, but I have a question now. How much does the DEC FDDI adapter cost? Thanks Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:09:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11931 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:09:40 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA11922 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:09:05 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA28852; Thu, 20 Apr 95 16:02:30 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504202202.AA28852@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: gene@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (Gene Stark) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 16:02:29 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504202110.RAA08175@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> from "Gene Stark" at Apr 20, 95 05:10:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >It was not the result of problems endemic to a release process. > > I disagree with this, as the prior release that was burned into CD-ROM > (1.1) IMHO was also an inferior release due to a rushed testing phase. > Release 1.1.5.1, which is the best release to date, was essentially the > result of testing and bug fixes applied to 1.1. Let me clarify the term "endemic". I do not believe that it is an inevitable outcome of the release process as it is defined. In other words, it is a result of failure of process rather than the process itself. It's not a question of procedure, it's a question of failure to follow procedure. > Every time the beta phase of a release has been shrunk to zero, I have > complained. I usually see everyone say "I'll *never* allow this to happen > again," but by the time the of the next release, the same thing has > happened again. It is my impression that the same thing is happening > right now with 2.0.5. A shrinking beta phase is a violation of the release protocol as it has been agreed to. The unpleasent part of release engineering is in being the source tree hall monitor -- enforcing protocol. > My feeling is that a system version from approximately April 7 would be > a good one to use as a base for 2.0.5. Check out that release, put it > out for beta test, integrate bug fixes only, and burn it into the CD-ROM. This is a good rollback date (at least as good as any other) to pick as the code freeze date after which new features will not be introduced to the release branch. I'm sure, though, that Paul (or whoever has replaced him as release engineer) has already branched the code at what looked like a logical breakpoint. As long as a branching has taken place, it's really not kosher to second guess him unless we are willing to walk a mile in his shoes. I would like to see release packaging polished to the point that a beta release can be rolled from a full install machine by typing "make release" somewhere so that we can get an immediate feel for beta (or so that those of us with extra machines can incrementally test and source tree that fully builds). This is an unreasonable requirement to have at this time without the support already in place, but it is certainly a topic that should be taken up in the near future. Unfortunately, a lot of what takes place in an install is still hand massaged, which means that there is a terrific investment in the people doing the work instead of in tools to do the work automatically -- this leaves the process particularly susceptable to disruption by distraction of the people or the people being hit by a bus, or snipers from The Forces of DOS taking them out. I think that many of the complaints that you have are valid relative to 2.0, but that they are indicative of failure to follow procedure more than anything else. Hopefully, they will be proven invalid for the next and subsequent releases, which are not under the shadow of exceptional circumstances (USL, etc) that 2.0 labored under. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:10:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11952 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:10:38 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11932 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:09:50 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id SAA12905; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:07:50 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504202207.SAA12905@hda.com> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:07:50 -0400 (EDT) Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504201749.AA25642@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 20, 95 11:49:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1122 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > The Linux driver is copyleft and (allegedly) doesn't exploit all > > of the features. I'm real hesitant about looking at the Linux > > driver until we're sure that no one is going to sign an NDA with > > Digi and write a complete object-only driver. > > > > In spite of the availability of a Linux driver Digi requires signing an > > NDA to get access to the documentation for the intelligent boards. > > > > Is anyone interested in a shareware object only driver? > > This would only work if the driver was a loadable module AND the > driver was undel LGPL instead of GPL so that loading as a kernel > module satisfies the relinking requirements of LGPL. No, I meant an organization would sign the NDA, pay Digiboard the $200.00 for the documentation, and produce a shareware object only driver. The Linux driver ALLEGEDLY is incomplete in its support. Note that Digi felt enough pressure to permit a Linux driver. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:23:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA12121 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:23:17 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA12109 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:22:39 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA09877; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:22:06 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA19304 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:22:05 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA05449 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:11:40 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504202211.AAA05449@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Release stability (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:11:40 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504201932.PAA04694@ns1.win.net> from "Mark Hittinger" at Apr 20, 95 03:32:02 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 925 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Hittinger wrote: > > In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed > many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There > was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. I don't think we'll have the (personal) resources for this. It would require to work on two (or more) tagged trees simultaneously. The main development needs to continue in order to get new features in, since they require testing by more than only a couple of `inventors'. This is contradictionary (sp?) to the `bug fix only' issue, so the bug fixes will have to be done in a branch tree. That's the usual way during the alpha/beta phase of a release, but it requires way more efforts to get the bugfixes back into the regular tree. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:27:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA12211 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:27:00 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA12204 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:26:58 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA23611; Thu, 20 Apr 95 15:22:43 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA21982; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:22:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA12336; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:24:44 GMT Message-Id: <199504201824.SAA12336@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:52:12 MST." <199504202152.OAA25663@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:24:44 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi. Thanks for your info. > > I'll write a longer reply later, but I have a question now. How much > does the DEC FDDI adapter cost? DEC FDDI PCI DEFPA-UA $695 (US) DEC FDDI EISA DEFEA-UA $895 (US) DEC Fast Ether DE500-XA $249 (US) All the above are twisted pair adapters. Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com U*X Networking WWW URL: http://ftp.dec.com/%7Ethomas/ Digital Equipment Corporation Disclaimer: This message reflects my Littleton, MA own warped views, etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:30:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA12282 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:30:53 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA12276 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:30:52 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14529(5)>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:27:34 PDT Received: by crevenia.parc.xerox.com id <49864>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:27:30 -0700 From: Bill Fenner To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: How do I set a kernel variable? Message-Id: <95Apr20.152730pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:27:19 PDT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Under Sunos, I do adb -w -k /vmunix /dev/mem mrtdebug/W1 Under FreeBSD, I do gdb -k /kernel /dev/mem kgdb> set mrtdebug = 1 kvm_write:write failed kgdb> p mrtdebug $1 = 0 Do I have to set up a sysctl interface for my debugging flags?... Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:36:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA12379 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:36:11 -0700 Received: from inetgwy.asctmd.com (inetgwy.asctmd.com [198.59.170.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA12357 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:33:42 -0700 From: SUPERVISOR@alb.asctmd.com Received: from alb.asctmd.com (alb.asctmd.com [198.59.170.34]) by inetgwy.asctmd.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA15300 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:41:48 -0600 Received: from ALBUQUERQUE-Message_Server by alb.asctmd.com with WordPerfect_Office; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:36:13 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: WordPerfect Office 4.0 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:33:31 -0700 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Q: Does anyone know about implementing LAT support? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I'm think I'm going to use the ifalias support and extend it to AF_LINK > sockaddrs. So if SIOCAIFADDR fails, then I'll fall back to SIOCIFADDR. > > The worst thing is that this means all the drivers will have to change > to support DECnet. I'll be sure to make my drivers support DECnet > but I'll leave the other drivers to others. > > My goal is to minimize the changes required to the system to support DECnet. You should be able to add it to the generic ethernet code... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Grab a copy of netipx.tar from the archive site (my XNS/IPX hacks to the kernel) and you can take a look at the *.diffs necessary to add another protocol family to the kernel. This might be a good starting point... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:51:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA12809 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:51:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA12802 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:51:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter Dufault cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 20:12:06 EDT." <199504200012.UAA07776@hda.com> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:51:57 -0700 Message-ID: <12800.798418317@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Also, in Jordan's e-mail there was something that implied perhaps > FreeBSD should consider reducing its standards, since all we do is > think about releasing quality stuff until it reaches a fever point > where we push out the garbage (yes, I'm paraphrasing a little), > "after all, look at Linux". > > I say: NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO. I meant no such implication. I simply stated that our current "high standards" are essentially MEANINGLESS because we always abandon the high ground at the last minute with a panic release. Clearly, releases must happen often. Also clearly, we must have high standards. Our current model isn't working. I doubt that the "Linux model" would work for us either, I simply pointed to it to illustrate another point, which was that the measure of *success* is in picking a model that's successful and sticking with it. Linux has picked a model that's successful for them, and they're sticking with it. We've picked a model that doesn't work (be really fussy then panic) and we're struggling to make the best of it. This sucks. WE NEED TO DO THIS DIFFERENTLY, AND WHAT I NEED ARE MORE WELL-THOUGHT-OUT SUGGESTIONS AND ACTUAL MENTAL ACTIVITY ON THE PART OF THOSE INVOLVED RATHER THAN SIMPLE, EASY-TO-CAST CRITICISMS! Excuse my caps, but I'm getting kinda sick of this. Everybody wants to criticise our driving but nobody wants to take a turn at the wheel or start offering genuinely helpful and constructive directions on where to steer. I don't mean to overtly criticise Peter himself too much here, he's just one example of the syndrome I'm talking about here. Everyone is readily willing to join in bandying phrases like "commercial quality" and "well supported" about, but very few are willing to genuinely sit down for an hour or two and REALLY THINK about what that means! What's involved in constructing a project who's real goal is that level of quality with an almost entirely volunteer workforce? What happens when it's not _everybody's_ goal? How do you reconcile the differences in methodologies between the joy-riding hackers and the staid "just make it work right" old farts from commercial backgrounds? Both have valuable contributions to make, so you can't just try and force everyone into one camp or the other. The suggestions I've generally gotten so far have either been too simplistic or unaware of the larger issues (e.g. "just do xxx and all your problems will be solved") to use. I'm still waiting for someone who'll really put in the time with me to step forward and help put a more genuine organization together. Our situation right now is typical of most "startups" in that we have many more indians than chiefs. It's getting kinda lonely up here! I'd sure appreciate it if somebody who was actually REALLY GOOD at management would come forward and take my place so that I could get back to the business of hacking on this stuff and stop having to answer emails on issues like this! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:53:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA12863 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:53:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA12856 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:53:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 22:20:04 EDT." <199504200220.WAA17794@genesis.tiac.net> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:53:21 -0700 Message-ID: <12855.798418401@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you must stick to a strict timetable, why not start automatically > imposing a feature freeze 3 weeks before the close of each quarter. At > least if it was regularly scheduled we could all see it coming. Circle > the burn date in red on your calendar. :-) Only generate *one* SNAP > release mid way through the quarter. At least this would reduce the > number of moving targets. 2.0.5 is another a one-off effort. If the 2.2 cycle doesn't go along a more predictable and reasonable timeline, I'm resigning from anything having to do with release engineering anyway. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 15:56:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA12960 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:56:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA12953 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:56:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gene Stark cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 00:13:20 EDT." <199504200413.AAA05141@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <12952.798418578@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps this idea is a bit radical, but I think it would be beneficial > to separate the technical development goals of FreeBSD from the pressures > to get a CD to market. A method I have been applying to get decent > snapshots to use is to build the world regularly, observing the general > stability of the system and reading the mailing lists to assess the > frequency of changes to key portions of the system. When the frequency > of key source changes appears to have reached a local minimum and the > number of serious instability reports seems small, I try to roll a > snapshot. It's a perfectly reasonable idea, but it involves a fair bit of discipline on the part of the release engineer, and up to now the release-rolling process has been arcane enough that not many (including us) could even figure it out well enough to generate a release. Perhaps, as rolling releases becomes easier and easier for the lay-person to do, we'll have broader interest in this by people who's SOLE interest is release engineering? It's never been mine, but it seems like folks like Poul and I have been getting stuck with it. I'd like this to change. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 16:13:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13393 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:13:45 -0700 Received: from mg1.cdsnet.net (osyjm@mg1.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13385 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:13:37 -0700 Received: (from osyjm@localhost) by mg1.cdsnet.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) id RAA08617; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:01:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:01:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: NatureBoy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: TIA running on 3/22 snap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk TIA only does IP. ICMP will fail. This basically affects ping, and one or two other.s From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 16:16:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13513 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:16:58 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13507 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:16:56 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA16132 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:16:56 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504202316.QAA16132@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Returned mail: Re: Booting from second hard drive (SCSI) problems (Again!!) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1124 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This has come up enough for me to change the bootblocks a bit.. here is the change I suggest: > from: > > loadstart: > /***************************************************************\ > * As a default set it to the first partition of the first * > * floppy or hard drive * > \***************************************************************/ > part = unit = 0; > > to: loadstart: /***************************************************************\ * As a default set it to the first partition of the boot * * floppy or hard drive * \***************************************************************/ part = 0; unit = drive & 0x7f; #ifdef BOOT_HD maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 1); /* a good first bet */ #else maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* a good first bet */ #endif I'm checking in this change now..... define BOOT_HD to make it default to hd(1,a)/kernel If that fails in the older boot code: replace part = unit = 0; with part = 0; unit = 1; maj = 1; > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 16:27:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13671 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:27:17 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13653 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:26:55 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA09083; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:37:35 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA04244 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:26:56 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA10331 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:47:50 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA01354; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:27:20 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504201827.UAA01354@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:27:20 +1596657 (MET DST) Cc: pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504191741.AA19086@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 19, 95 11:41:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 912 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 2) Automatic generation/removal of devices on bus reset. For > instance, attach a device to the SCSI device chain, or > power on a tape on the chain that was not powered on at > boot time, and it can be made available. The existance > of a device file is no longer an ambiguous marker. Yuck! Powering up/down for SCSI devices on the fly is generally a sure way to hang the buses, screw the disks etc. It *should* work, but my experience shows that it has something like a 20% chance to bomb. The above remark does not mean your point about devfs is invalid, I'm just not thrilled by the example ;-) Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 16:28:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13722 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:28:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA13715 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:28:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: cstruble@vt.edu cc: Ollivier Robert , Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Install Wish In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 07:44:33 EDT." Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:28:44 -0700 Message-ID: <13714.798420524@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think I was misunderstood. I meant in the install utility for 2.x. When > an FTP fails, a nice bright dialog box saying "ftp to ... failed" and my > only option is to hit the "Ok" button, when I'm frantically saying "No, > no, no, give me another chance!!!!". Let me see what I can do.. :-) The planned 2.1 install won't even use ncftp - it'll use libftp and manage the connections direction. A LOT easier to handle timeouts and such that way! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 16:29:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13732 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:29:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA13725 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:29:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: mul@lab1033.berlin.ptb.de (m_ulbrich) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkr@saarlink.de Subject: Re: ISDN support? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 13:36:29 +0200." <9504201136.AA07174@hamilton.lab1033.berlin.ptb.de> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:27:43 -0700 Message-ID: <13685.798420463@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm currently thinking about upgrading my analog phone line at > home to ISDN :-) - especially because the german TELECOM makes > finally offers which are worth to take into consideration (IMHO). Not a bad idea - do you know which cards are most popular in Germany? I know that you can't just buy any card - it has to have a Postzulassung or something! > Does FreeBSD in its current state support any ISDN Interface cards? > If not, are there activities in this direction and who is involved > in them (maybe, I can offer help)? According to the current code in /sys/gnu/isdn and /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/isdn, there is support for a couple of strange and unknown ISDN cards though it's mostly a "framework" for real support later. The authors are countrymen of yours, though one apparently lives on an Island somewhere off the coast of Spain, and is therefore somewhat hard to get ahold of! :-) jkr@saarlink.de and jkrause@guug.de are the addresses I see in the code - I believe they're the same person with two different email addresses. I really don't know what the status is as the original authors seem to have all but disappeared! Juergen? Dietmar? Seid Ihr beide noch lebendig? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 16:31:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13778 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:31:33 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA13771 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:31:19 -0700 Received: from warrane.connect.com.au by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA26636; Thu, 20 Apr 95 16:27:56 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by warrane.connect.com.au with UUCP id JAA29184 (8.6.11/IDA-1.6); Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:27:42 +1000 Received: from testing.jhbs.com.au (testing.jhbs.com.au [128.102.0.2]) by ubik.jhbs.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA14429; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:46:38 +1000 Received: (from bens@localhost) by testing.jhbs.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA40821; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:46:37 +1000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:46:37 +1000 (EET) From: Ben Seaman MIS To: gj@FreeBSD.org Cc: m_ulbrich , hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: ISDN support? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't have the directory sys/gnu/isdn in my 2.0 source tree? Is this a later release? regards, Ben ************************************************************************* * Ben Seaman bens@jhbs.com.au * * AIX/Network Systems Specialist * * Nettrack Pty Ltd * * * * 61-2-8588527 (work) James Hardie Building Services * * 61-2-4384385 (office) * ************************************************************************* On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com wrote: > > Does FreeBSD in its current state support any ISDN Interface cards? > > in /sys/gnu/isdn there's support for some Dr. Neuhaus card, I don't know > off-hand exactly which one it is. > > Gary J. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 17:14:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA14886 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:14:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA14878 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:14:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, peter@nmti.com Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 02:26:55 EDT." Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:14:28 -0700 Message-ID: <14877.798423268@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've never hooked the thing up to a FreeBSD box before. I've got about 10 > blanks laying here, but at $15 per blank I'm afraid of wasting $150 to find > out that I used the wrong 'disklabel' option, or the wrong 'newfs' > parameter. I would be very willing to test out the worm code if someone is > in for a small amount of hand holding. :) If you get the hardware end working, I can personally attest to the fact that the mkisofs command in FreeBSD is very finicky about the options it accepts, but once you hit on the right ones it does work and will produce an image that, once burned onto a CD, does the right thing. I may make some changes so that the "asserts" turn into warnings about which non-optional flag you forgot to specify.. :-) The mkisofs stuff was written by Yggdrasil, and very poor quality code it is indeed! It definitely has the hallmarks of something that was written by somebody who had little love for the task and just wanted it to work and work quickly. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 17:32:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA16905 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:32:59 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA16899 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:32:57 -0700 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA07361 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:31:13 -0700 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199504210031.RAA07361@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: german beer... To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:31:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199504201924.VAA03709@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 20, 95 09:24:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 951 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to J Wunsch: > > As Don Yuniskis wrote: > > > > > Weissbier, Weissbier ! (better known as Weizen in the North of Germany, > > > those Nordlichter just don't have a clue :) Otherwise, I won't come. > > > > Actually, the reference was intended to Augustiner Brau, right joerg? :> > > Don, there's so many good beer here in germany, that the brand doesn't > matter too much. Since i don't live in Bayern, i don't prefer > Augustiner Bräu that much - but who cares? For you americans, i guess > almost every german beer might be a good beer. :-) > You need to visit the Pacific Northwest, if you want truly great American beer. So many to choose from, so little time to sample. (No Rainer lite doen't count!) -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 17:41:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA17163 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:41:38 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA17151 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:41:27 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id UAA01973; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:41:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:41:21 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504210041.UAA01973@genesis.tiac.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > If you must stick to a strict timetable, why not start automatically > > imposing a feature freeze 3 weeks before the close of each quarter. At > > least if it was regularly scheduled we could all see it coming. Circle > > the burn date in red on your calendar. :-) Only generate *one* SNAP > > release mid way through the quarter. At least this would reduce the > > number of moving targets. > Absolutely, positively, no releases on a quarter boundary. Please. > > Both work and major holidays (end of June and end of December) cause > big crunches and too many FreeBSD contributers have "day jobs". > FreeBSD "quarters" should be shifted one way or another by a month. Of course. When I say quarters I'm talking about three month intervals, not necessarily calendar quarters. It wouldn't make much sense to release a product *after* christmas. :-) > > I'm not trying to be critical, but I really like FreeBSD. I think it'd > > do nothing but hurt FreeBSD's reputation if the trend of surprise > > releases continues. Right now there are so many different releases > > floating around it's getting very difficult to support. (Older snaps > > are gone but people sure are still using them.) > Snaps aren't releases and won't go away. The NEED to use snaps is at > least part due to 2.0 problems that a bug fix release would take care > of. I think interim releases are fine so long as they are regularly timed. I just believe if particular dates are pre-determined for releases or interim releases it makes life easier to work toward a stability goal. Granted not all goals can be met by fixed dates but at least the playing field is defined. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 17:59:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA17709 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:59:44 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA17702 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:59:41 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00919; Thu, 20 Apr 95 18:53:11 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504210053.AA00919@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 18:53:11 MDT Cc: gene@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <12952.798418578@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 20, 95 03:56:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... seperate technical considerations from release considerations ... ] > It's a perfectly reasonable idea, but it involves a fair bit of > discipline on the part of the release engineer, and up to now the > release-rolling process has been arcane enough that not many > (including us) could even figure it out well enough to generate a > release. Such a seperation has the inherent problem that there is never a culmination of efforts; engineering types are free to commit at any time, and a release is only a snapshot. Give two or more major systems being worked on simultaneously, and the result is a snapshot that never works. The release engineer can, with a large amount of effort, then track the developement effort to pound this into something that can boot and install, etc. I would say that this is an unacceptable expectation for a volunteer effort, unless the release engineer is a paid employee so that there is a reason that they would put up with this crap. The other model where this would work is the 800 pound gorilla model wher the release engineer can dictate schedules. Not only is this an intuitively (for me anyway) flawed model for a developement effort, we have the shining example of 386BSD 0.2 to prove that it's not a viable model. It's a reasonable idea, but it lacks someone willing and able to "bell the cat". I'll agree that the arcane process has to go... making a release has got to be largely automatic to free up the release engineer's time to pursue bugfix inetgration, etc. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 18:07:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA17886 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:07:31 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA17880 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:07:28 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00941; Thu, 20 Apr 95 18:59:41 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504210059.AA00941@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 18:59:40 MDT Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504202207.SAA12905@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 20, 95 06:07:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No, I meant an organization would sign the NDA, pay Digiboard > the $200.00 for the documentation, and produce a shareware object only > driver. The Linux driver ALLEGEDLY is incomplete in its support. Oh. This is a *definite* goal in my mind -- the ability to use binary drivers means the ability to ship those drivers on hardware vendor's disks. I don't think it's too far off when a CDROM will be cheaper media than several floppies (after mastering and duplication costs) and I fully expect hardware to come with a CDROM. And there's a lot of room on a CDROM. Enough room for lotsa drivers for your hardware, even if you didn't write them. My point about LGPL is how do you leverage GPL drivers in a non-GPL kernel while keeping the distribution and code release restrictions and not restricting the kernel they go into. I've thought more than a little bit on the topic, and am close to being willing to distribute LGPL drivers for various things that aren't critical to system boot to the point that they can be installed. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 18:19:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA18272 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:19:09 -0700 Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA18263 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:19:07 -0700 Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R2.01/dg-rtp-v02) id AA27188; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:18:22 -0400 Received: from lakes (lakes [192.96.3.39]) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA16295; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:00:24 -0400 Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA08951; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:14:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:14:11 -0400 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199504210114.VAA08951@lakes> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kaleb@x.org Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Contrib on ftp.x.org. Or try NCD (Network Computing Devices). The LBX > > > (Low Bandwidth X) was developed by Mike(?) @ NCD and given to the X > > > people for inclusion. They wanted to modify it somewhat before the > > > released it. I believe the NCD code is out there under the name XRemote. > > > > Uh, no. I know about LBX and it's not what I'm looking for. I'm > > looking for something that SPOOFS as a server and does very simplistic > > yet effective compression schemes on the datastream. It's much easier > > to use across different server and client environments (neither server > > nor client need ever know) and it's a lot less reading than the LBX > > documentation! :-) > > > > > > You're probably thinking of SXPC, look at > > ftp://ftp.x.org/R5contrib/sxpc-1.4.shar.Z > > -- > > Kaleb > I know this is probably ancient news by now; but I'd like to add that I've been in contact with the author of sxpc since some earlier versions. He's made the changes I suggested, and I have been very happy with it's performance on my FreeBSD 2.0 systems for some time. Version 1.4 has all the changes I sent him. There is one problem; sxpc tries to bind to a file in /tmp which usually isn't there - so you get a little perror() message.. It's completely safe to ignore the message... - Dave R. - From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 18:37:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA19021 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:37:54 -0700 Received: from cyclops.home.com (xtwa3.ess.harris.com [130.41.26.162]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA19005 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:37:38 -0700 Received: (from jleppek@localhost) by cyclops.home.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA00570; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:41:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:41:23 -0400 From: User Jleppek Message-Id: <199504210141.VAA00570@cyclops.home.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <199504202027.VAA04046@linus.demon.co.uk> (message from Mark Valentine on Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:27:37 +0100) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/TODO-2.1 core Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ha, I almost did this myself before I got suspicious and took a look :-) (Hmmm, does that mean I could be replaced with a dumb cleanup script...) Jim Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:27:37 +0100 From: Mark Valentine Newsgroups: linus.freebsd.cvs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article you write: >phk 95/04/20 01:19:49 > > Added: TODO-2.1 core > Log: > I have added this file for the entire core-team, so we don't loose issues > on the floor. Hmm, how many dumb cleanup scripts on non-FreeBSD mirrors are going to lose *that* file!? (And even "portable" scripts on FreeBSD machines...) Suggestion: mv core core-team. Mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 18:42:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA19284 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:42:58 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA19226 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:41:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA08433; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:58:30 +0200 Message-Id: <199504210058.CAA08433@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Subject: Beer In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:43:49 +0200." <199504200643.IAA02075@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:58:30 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If someone pays me the flight, i don't have a problem to take a rack > (? - ,,Kasten'') of beer with me. :) I'd bring a crate of "Koenig Ludwig Muenchner Dunkles', but Jordan doesn't like it, (which is perhaps why this Englishman is still here enjoying the Bavarian beergardens, whereas that Californian departed to the land of Guinness & Kilkenny, then left _even_ there, & moved back to a place called America, where suprisingly they seem to feel need to label beer: ~"The Surgeon General warns excess consumption may intoxicate~" ! (English language labelling roughly as seen a year ago in the Munich office of the European Patent Office Canteen/Bar, on Mexican product imported via the US). I guess Jordan abandoned great beer in favour of cheap ISDN & hardware :-) PS Congrats on being liberated from the floor Jordan, take some time out for a House Warmimg party ! Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 18:43:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA19292 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:43:07 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA19091 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:39:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA08465; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 03:06:40 +0200 Message-Id: <199504210106.DAA08465@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: mul@lab1033.berlin.ptb.de (m_ulbrich) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN support? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:36:29 +0200." <9504201136.AA07174@hamilton.lab1033.berlin.ptb.de> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 03:06:39 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a LION Datapump plugged into a spare FreeBSD box here, it responds to Hayes commands, but I have no line to test it, or time, All the docs are in freefall.cdrom.com:~jhs/isdn (or ISDN or some such) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 18:54:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA19572 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:54:23 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA19558 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:54:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA10345; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:50:54 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504210250.HAA10345@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:50:54 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201048.GAA09638@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 20, 95 06:48:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 749 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > someone just told me they were working on a digiboard driver > > bit didn't know about the linux driver.. > > (one of our russian friends.. (was it andrew?) > > anyhow, > > hopefully the linux driver helps.. > > > > The Linux driver is copyleft and (allegedly) doesn't exploit all > of the features. I'm real hesitant about looking at the Linux > driver until we're sure that no one is going to sign an NDA with > Digi and write a complete object-only driver. How about decompiling the SCO driver ? Russian copyright law explicitly allows decompiling of software for studying the interface of hardware or software. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 19:11:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA19907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:11:55 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA19899 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:11:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199504210211.TAA19899@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA14954; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:11:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:11:47 -0400 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you get the hardware end working, I can personally attest to the fact that the mkisofs command in FreeBSD is very finicky about the options it accepts, but once you hit on the right ones it does work and will produce an image that, once burned onto a CD, does the right thing. I may make some changes so that the "asserts" turn into warnings about which non-optional flag you forgot to specify.. :-) The mkisofs stuff was written by Yggdrasil, and very poor quality code it is indeed! It definitely has the hallmarks of something that was written by somebody who had little love for the task and just wanted it to work and work quickly. Jordon, I've used mkisofs and im curious how it the FreeBSD driver works, how would you go through the steps of taking a UFS tree and generating an ISO disc off a writer attached to the box? -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 19:16:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA20056 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:16:17 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA20043 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:16:08 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA14153 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:53:17 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA03659; 20 Apr 95 19:21:46 CDT (Thu) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA03656; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:21:46 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504210021.TAA03656@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:21:45 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de In-Reply-To: <7175.798406484@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 20, 95 12:34:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1203 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was involved peripherally in the 4.1x BSD releases, mainly because they had all these silly little scripts they needed written and us undergrads were easy prey. > We are on the hook to make 2.1 everything 1.1.5.1 is and now it looks > like we'll be doing that all the way up through June. This is only > right and proper since that's genuinely how long it's going to take to > do a 1.1.5.1 equivalent, Bravo! I salute you! > but this still leaves things like the > upcoming 2.0.6 unaccounted for. How do we deal with this in the > future so that it's not such a mess? (1) 2.0 was released too early. A lot of the changes subsequent to 2.0 should have been in 2.0. We know why 2.0 was released when it was. That's not a problem. (2) There should have been a 2.0.1 release prior to the inclusion of the slice code. (3) There should be interim releases prior to the addition of *any* major functionality. That includes devfs. (4) The snaps should be kept up, to keep interest up. FreeBSD looks to me very much like 4BSD was between 4.1 and 4.2. A lot of *new* stuff is going in, and it's hurting stability. A series of interim releases when new stuff begins to gel are needed. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 19:22:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA20211 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:22:10 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA20205 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:22:02 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <743>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:34:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:33:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: TIA running on 3/22 snap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > TIA only does IP. ICMP will fail. This basically affects ping, and one > or two other.s ICMP packets are transported in IP packets. More correctly, TIA will only handle TCP traffic. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 19:32:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA20636 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:32:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA20628 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:32:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Glen Foster cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Release stability In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 12:47:13 EDT." <199504201647.MAA18678@nomad.osmre.gov> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 19:32:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20626.798431530@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Features are nice to have but the measure of any operating system is > how dependable it is. In my book features account for about 20% and > dependability (in which I include both predictability and stability) > about 80% of the "quality" of a release. Please, please, please do > not compromise the quality of 2.1. Just to set that particular record straight, no one here has even mentioned compromising the quality of 2.1. In fact, it's that very unwillingness to compromise its quality that has led us to push its release date out into July. We're now talking about an interim release to take some of the heat off! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 20:41:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA23332 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:41:46 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA23326 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:41:44 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA10654 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:43:18 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199504210343.XAA10654@ns1.win.net> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:43:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 500 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) > > How about decompiling the SCO driver ? Russian copyright law explicitly > allows decompiling of software for studying the interface of > hardware or software. > In addition I have a driver for Interactive Unix 3.2 (4.0) for the digiboards (object). We were using them quit heavily until I switched most of the stuff over to annex-3/freebsd. A stack of digiboards sit on my desk looking at me: "use me - use me". Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 21:03:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA24489 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:03:09 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA24481 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:03:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA01507; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:02:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199504210402.WAA01507@rover.village.org> To: Tom Samplonius Subject: Re: TIA running on 3/22 snap Cc: NatureBoy , hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:26:18 PDT Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:02:06 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : TIA just doesn't support ICMP. This is a design issue. The FreeBSD : sliplogin actually works well. I have a 1.1.5.1 "slipserver" that runs one outbound and two inbound SLIP connections all the time. We've been up for about 6-9 months now w/o any huge hassles. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 22:23:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA26977 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:23:16 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA26969 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:23:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA00490 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:16:07 GMT Message-Id: <199504202216.WAA00490@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Sound to the Max :) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:16:05 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I just got an Ultrasound Max and I am making a sweep of sound apps with the sound driver v30. If you have a popular that you like for me to test it please let me know. Currently, I am having problems with xcdplayer and my Toshiba CD-ROM XM-3401TA The kernel is about a week I supped the system and did a make world. Here is what is happening: bg/midi/Songs > xcdplayer ioctl(cdromreadtochdr): : Input/output error open: : Device not configured ^CApr 20 22:10:21 star-gate /kernel: aha0:host_stat14 Apr 20 22:10:21 star-gate /kernel: aha0:host_stat14 /bg/midi/Songs > Apr 20 22:10:23 star-gate /kernel: sd0(aha0:0:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0sd0(aha0:0:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred Apr 20 22:10:23 star-gate /kernel: sd0(aha0:0:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0sd0(aha0:0:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred Apr 20 22:10:23 star-gate /kernel: , retries:4 Apr 20 22:10:23 star-gate /kernel: , retries:4 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is used to work about a month ago... Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 22:36:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA27455 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:36:29 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA27447 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:36:28 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA23900; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:35:36 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01724; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:35:05 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:35:05 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504210535.WAA01724@geli.clusternet> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Beer Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Really, wouldn't it be nice to have a FreeBSD party? (Well this is the nineties--a FreeBSD sociallizing occasion--) Since Jordan has a lot of fires to tend to, I volunteer my house, which is in Santa Clara, heart of cheap equipment and very little soul. (But we do try :-) It's not Europe, but it is California! Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 23:10:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA29148 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:10:28 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA29116 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:10:11 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA10914; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:59:59 +1000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:59:59 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504210559.PAA10914@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Returned mail: Re: Booting from second hard drive (SCSI) problems (Again!!) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >This has come up enough for me to change the bootblocks a bit.. >here is the change I suggest: >> from: >> >> loadstart: >> /***************************************************************\ >> * As a default set it to the first partition of the first * >> * floppy or hard drive * >> \***************************************************************/ >> part = unit = 0; >> >> to: >loadstart: > /***************************************************************\ > * As a default set it to the first partition of the boot * > * floppy or hard drive * > \***************************************************************/ > part = 0; > unit = drive & 0x7f; Erm, this change has been in the tree since revision 1.30 in January. >#ifdef BOOT_HD > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 1); /* a good first bet */ >#else > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* a good first bet */ >#endif Shouldn't this be >#ifdef BOOT_HD > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 1 : 2); /* a bad first bet */ >#else > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* another bad first bet */ >#endif ? >define BOOT_HD to make it default to hd(1,a)/kernel I think the original version defaults to hd(something,a) for booting from floppies and wd(something, a) for booting from hard disks. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 20 23:40:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA00578 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:40:28 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA00569 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:40:13 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA11488; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:30:56 +1000 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:30:56 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504210630.QAA11488@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: fenner@parc.xerox.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: How do I set a kernel variable? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Under Sunos, I do >adb -w -k /vmunix /dev/mem >mrtdebug/W1 >Under FreeBSD, I do >gdb -k /kernel /dev/mem >kgdb> set mrtdebug = 1 >kvm_write:write failed >kgdb> p mrtdebug >$1 = 0 I normally use ddb. gdb just seems to be braindamaged and buggy here. Braindamaged: it has its own kvm_write() which is quite different from the library kvm_write(), and the error message doesn't give the errno. (The errno is actually EBADF, which is surprising considering that an lseek on the bad fd has just succeeded.) Broken: the fd used is for /dev/kmem. kvm_read() is quite differently, and reads from the correct fd (the core_kd arg), and seems to work. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 00:05:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA01703 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:05:17 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA01687 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:05:00 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id AAA01622 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:02:12 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0s2Cj3-000HyrC; Fri, 21 Apr 95 09:02 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.0 #15) id m0s2Cbc-0002OfC; Fri, 21 Apr 95 08:54 WET DST Message-Id: From: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: ISDN support? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:54:20 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <13685.798420463@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 20, 95 04:27:43 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1224 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Jordan K. Hubbard: > Not a bad idea - do you know which cards are most popular in Germany? The most popular ones are the "Teles" cards manufactured by a company called Teles in Berlin. There is now a second source "Creatix" which makes clones of this cards. Very simple boards, street price ~250,-DM. There exist 2 drivers for Linux for this board but as of my knowledge none for *BSD. > According to the current code in /sys/gnu/isdn and /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/isdn, > there is support for a couple of strange and unknown ISDN cards though it's They are not that strange, they are Dr. Neuhaus Niccy 3008 and 3009 and an ISDN-to-SCSI adaptor called Niccy 5000. Currently one can see ads for the 3009 in every german computer magazine. They are (expensive IMO) active ISDN cards with (optional) modem and fax support in hardware (DSP) on the board, the 3009 costs about 1500,-DM. > addresses. I really don't know what the status is as the original > authors seem to have all but disappeared! Yes, this is disappointing ... hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 00:07:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA01810 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:07:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA01800 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:07:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: gene@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (Gene Stark), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:27:26 MDT." <9504201727.AA25462@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:07:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1799.798448037@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Let it be forever noted that 2.0 was an exception. It was a rush job > that was done to appease legal requirements and to keep the FreeBSD > efforts afloat at the same time avoiding legal action by USL. It > had the nice side effect of resolving the legal issues for Walnut Creek > at the same time, which can only be a good thing, given the backing > they have provided. May I take this moment to make a further point? 2.1 is also an exception. 2.1 is a software project in the full throes of Second System Syndrome, and thus can't really be considered a "normal" release either. Everyone, myself included, wants 2.1 to be "radically better." They want all the features that were glaringly missing in 2.0. They want to "do it right this time". If you've been a developer all those years and for all those companies as you say, then you KNOW exactly what's going on with the core team right now and you also know that you're about as able to stop it as you are able to stop the earth from rotating. S^3 is a phase that all developers go through with their pet projects (the ones that live past the first release, anyway) and all the manager usually manages to do is hang on and sort of steer, dashing in from time to time to make wholly unreasonable demands regarding ship dates. "He Doesn't Understand", say the developers. "It Must Be Better This Time." I'm not ashamed to admit it. We're doing all the classic things. FreeBSD 2.2 will be a more sober release, a "we're not going to do another 2.1 style one, that took too long!" sort of release. 2.3 will be a "Hey, we're sort of starting to get the hang of this!" sort of release. In other words (and I'm saying this to everyone, not just Terry): Just relax and enjoy the ride. We're going pretty well, all things considered, and there are certain hoops we're just going to insist on jumping through, no matter how much we may know about them in advance! I've been watching this from the beginning, and I've seen many a good suggestion (a few excellent ones, in fact) go by without even a comment. Groups like this seem to have high intrinsic latency periods, and no matter how much you may force feed them with ideas or other input, they adopt them at their own pace and in their own time. There will be some frustration with our methods. There will be many people who think we're complete idiots for not doing it Their Way. Still other people will grow very attached to certain ways we do things only to be vastly dismayed when we change them. I'm not saying what sorts of things will happen and when, just that this is an evolving process which we are, to some extent, making up as we go along! Have a little patience with us, and (again to everyone and not just Terry) maybe try to send us a little less email so that we have time to actually work on this stuff! :-) [Seriously speaking, my email input load has become a crisis - I can't go on this way!! :-( ] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 00:22:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02192 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:22:38 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA02180 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:22:26 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19165; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:22:03 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA22231; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:22:01 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA07728; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:02:13 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504210702.JAA07728@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: ISDN support? To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:02:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mul@lab1033.berlin.ptb.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504210106.DAA08465@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 21, 95 03:06:39 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 363 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Howard Stacey wrote: > > > I have a LION Datapump plugged into a spare FreeBSD box here, > it responds to Hayes commands, but I have no line to test it, or time, Does it allow for full 64 KB/s per channel? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 00:23:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02203 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:23:07 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA02170 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:22:08 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19157; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:21:53 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA22225 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:21:52 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA07682 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:58:44 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504210658.IAA07682@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:58:44 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504210250.HAA10345@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 21, 95 07:50:54 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 633 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > How about decompiling the SCO driver ? Russian copyright law explicitly > allows decompiling of software for studying the interface of > hardware or software. Huuh! Use this right as long as you can. :-) Remember Terry's note about `cleanrooming'. *You*'re the guys who could provide people outside with the cleanroomed interface descriptions. I'm sure, Russia will get enough pressure from the western countries to adopt to the western copyright laws. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 00:23:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02209 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:23:17 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA02172 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:22:15 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19161; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:22:00 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA22228; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:21:55 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA07705; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:00:45 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504210700.JAA07705@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: How do I set a kernel variable? To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:00:44 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <95Apr20.152730pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at Apr 20, 95 03:27:19 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 331 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bill Fenner wrote: > > Under FreeBSD, I do > > gdb -k /kernel /dev/mem > kgdb> set mrtdebug = 1 > kvm_write:write failed I've also wondered. Gary? What will always work: DDB. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 00:34:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02457 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:34:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA02449 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:34:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Release stability (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 15:32:02 EDT." <199504201932.PAA04694@ns1.win.net> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:34:55 -0700 Message-ID: <2448.798449695@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed > many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There > was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. > > The focus was shifted during each release to concentrate on the > primary goal of that release. Customers knew what to expect in > general terms. > > We seem to be trying to do all three simultaneously and I don't think > its really possible to do. This is about the best general summary of the situation I've seen yet. Yes, I think that a new/stable/fast cycle of 3 has a lot to be said for it. What would people say to us going to the following numbering scheme in support of this? .<0,1,2[,3..]>[.] Where a bump in would signal a fairly major paradigm shift of some sort, the 0 release for which would be the "features" release. It wouldn't be guaranteed not to eat you and your entire family for breakfast, it would be for the rocket jockeys who enjoy riding out on the bleeding edge. The .1 release would be the fixed version of the .0 and for the more staid sorts. The .2 release would be the final stage of evolution with things sped up and generally made to work "optimally", for whatever the value of optimum might be. If we needed snapshots, those would trail between in the "100's place" with things like 2.0.1 or 2.1.2 being valid and reasonable snapshot names (the 1st post-2.0 snapshot and 2nd post-2.1 snapshots, respectively). This would also remove Garrett's objection to date-based snapshot names. I could be more than happy with a release numbering scheme (and underlying philosophy) like this. What say the rest of you? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 00:44:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02593 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:44:26 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02587 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:44:25 -0700 Received: from freefall.cdrom.com (freefall.cdrom.com [192.216.222.4]) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05196; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 03:44:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA02582 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:44:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gene Stark cc: cs.weber.edu!terry@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu, FreeBSD.org!hackers@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 17:10:31 EDT." <199504202110.RAA08175@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:44:16 -0700 Message-ID: <2581.798450256@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > pretty good." This was based on what I saw in the mailing lists, which about > a month ago said "we forsee no other major functionality changes in 2.1 > other than the disk slice code". But now 2.1 is going to have devfs and > a bunch of other stuff that darn well looks to me like "major functionality > changes." I will be sort of embarrassed if everyone I told to get the next Where did you get THAT idea? The devfs stuff is down as "in the experimental directory for 2.1" "We forsee no other major functionality changes in 2.1 other than the disk slice code." Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 00:57:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02806 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:57:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA02799 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:57:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Steven G Kargl cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: german beer... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 17:31:12 PDT." <199504210031.RAA07361@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:57:41 -0700 Message-ID: <2798.798451061@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You need to visit the Pacific Northwest, if you want truly great American > beer. So many to choose from, so little time to sample. (No Rainer lite > doen't count!) Oh yeah, what about Olympia Gold? I hear that stuff's banned as dangerous medical waste in 27 countries! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 01:16:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA03039 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:16:38 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA03033 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:16:35 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA18442; Fri, 21 Apr 95 01:13:02 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s2Dmq-0005PJC; Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:10 MSZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of Thu, 20 Apr 95 16:27:43 MST. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN support? Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 08:10:00 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk jkh writes: > According to the current code in /sys/gnu/isdn and /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/isdn, > there is support for a couple of strange and unknown ISDN cards though it's > mostly a "framework" for real support later. >From /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/isdn/docs/README: Low level Drivers for Dr. Neuhaus NICCY 3008, 3009 and 5000 Cards. These are actually rather well known ISDN cards here in Germany. You're being very American here, Jordan :) And after living so long here Germany, too. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 01:25:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA03235 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:25:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA03228 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:25:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Help! Pinnacle Micro Recordable CD! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 22:11:47 EDT." <199504210211.TAA19899@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:25:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3227.798452712@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordon, I've used mkisofs and im curious how it the FreeBSD driver works, how > would you go through the steps of taking a UFS tree and generating an ISO dis c > off a writer attached to the box? cd /your/tree mkisofs -i -T -r -p -z -q -m -w -l -Z -o dd if= of=/dev/ Assuming, of course, that FreeBSD supports talking to your_burner at a constant minimum data rate (the hard part, and something Peter Dufault has been working on). Myself, I take the image that mkisofs spits out and simply ftp it to the burner machine, which runs DOS and a TCP/IP stack. Jordan P.S. All the mkisofs options except -o are bogus - I'm just making fun of its strange and arcane *required* optional arguments! :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 01:43:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA03629 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:43:20 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA03623 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:43:18 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA18126; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:42:57 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504210842.BAA18126@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Returned mail: Re: Booting from second hard drive (SCSI) problems (Again!!) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504210559.PAA10914@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 21, 95 03:59:59 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1055 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >This has come up enough for me to change the bootblocks a bit.. > > > unit = drive & 0x7f; > > Erm, this change has been in the tree since revision 1.30 in January. yes, I know THIS bit has, but the NEXT bit is the change > > >#ifdef BOOT_HD > > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 1); /* a good first bet */ > >#else > > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* a good first bet */ > >#endif > > Shouldn't this be > > >#ifdef BOOT_HD > > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 1 : 2); /* a bad first bet */ > >#else > > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* another bad first bet */ > >#endif > > ? NO, I had it correct.. major 0 if off a floppy and major 1 if not.. major 1 is a 'pseudo' mojor which is later changed to 2 or 4 depending on whether it's scsi > > >define BOOT_HD to make it default to hd(1,a)/kernel > > I think the original version defaults to hd(something,a) for booting from > floppies and wd(something, a) for booting from hard disks. no it does what I wanted.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 01:56:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA03950 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:56:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA03941 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:56:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Beer In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 22:35:05 PDT." <199504210535.WAA01724@geli.clusternet> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:56:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3940.798454595@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is an interesting idea. Anyone else in the Bay Area want to work on scheduling this? If we do it in the next week, David Greenman will also be able to come since he flew down here last night to work on wcarchive. Gary, Poul-Henning, Justin, Satoshi and Jack are already here.. That's at least 6 core members in the bay area and an unknown number of long-time -hackers alumnus.. Jordan > Really, wouldn't it be nice to have a FreeBSD party? (Well this is > the nineties--a FreeBSD sociallizing occasion--) > > Since Jordan has a lot of fires to tend to, I volunteer my house, which is > in Santa Clara, heart of cheap equipment and very little soul. (But we > do try :-) > > It's not Europe, but it is California! > > Cheers, > Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 02:17:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA04509 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:17:17 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA04503 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:17:14 -0700 Received: from freefall.cdrom.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA20970; Fri, 21 Apr 95 02:10:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA04393 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:10:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: gj@FreeBSD.org Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: ISDN support? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 08:10:00 GMT." Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:10:50 -0700 Message-Id: <4392.798455450@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > jkh writes: > > According to the current code in /sys/gnu/isdn and /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/is dn, > > there is support for a couple of strange and unknown ISDN cards though it's > > mostly a "framework" for real support later. > > >From /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/isdn/docs/README: > Low level Drivers for Dr. Neuhaus NICCY 3008, 3009 and 5000 Cards. > > These are actually rather well known ISDN cards here in Germany. You're > being very American here, Jordan :) And after living so long here Germany, to o. > > Gary J. :-) And here's me thinking that "Dr. Neuhaus" was their project director or something! I thought that these were custom boards developed for an in-house project! [embarassed grin]. I'm quite happy to hear otherwise, even though some other German folks following-up tell me that the Dr. Neuhaus ones are the most expensive ones, too! :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 02:58:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA05044 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:58:45 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA05038 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:58:44 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA22671; Fri, 21 Apr 95 02:50:53 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s2FJX-0005PJC; Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:47 MSZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from J Wunsch of Fri, 21 Apr 95 09:00:44 O. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: How do I set a kernel variable? Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 09:47:51 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As J"org Wunsch wrote: > As Bill Fenner wrote: >> >> Under FreeBSD, I do >> >> gdb -k /kernel /dev/mem >> kgdb> set mrtdebug = 1 >> kvm_write:write failed > > I've also wondered. Gary? > > What will always work: DDB. :-) and as Bruce Evans wrote: > I normally use ddb. > > gdb just seems to be braindamaged and buggy here. Braindamaged: it has > its own kvm_write() which is quite different from the library kvm_write(), > and the error message doesn't give the errno. (The errno is actually > EBADF, which is surprising considering that an lseek on the bad fd has > just succeeded.) Broken: the fd used is for /dev/kmem. kvm_read() is > quite differently, and reads from the correct fd (the core_kd arg), > and seems to work. I was sort of forced to write (or should I say, steal from the old kgdb) my own kvm_write because the kvm_write in libkvm doesn't handle "dead" kernels, i.e. it doesn't work with crash dumps :( In fact, NONE of the stuff in libkvm works with "dead" kernels ! At least, it didn't at the time I added the kernel debugging stuff to gdb-4.13. What I *really* should do is determine whether a "live" kernel is being debugged and use the libkvm stuff in that case. It doesn't make much sense to try changing a crash dump, after all, so it doesn't matter whether kvm_write works for that case. I kept the names of the routines in libkvm intentionally, in the hope that at some later point we'd only need to throw away the routines in gdb and automatically use those in libkvm. But the routines in gdb can be re-named to avoid name-space pollution. Guess I need to revamp this stuff, eh ? I'll look into it. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 03:49:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA05706 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 03:49:36 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA05700 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 03:49:36 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id DAA08127; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 03:49:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 03:49:35 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199504211049.DAA08127@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: crypt folks? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!rsanders From: rsanders@interbev.mindspring.com (Robert Sanders) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Secure (encrypted) telnet Date: 20 Apr 1995 13:36:41 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3n5o19$h32@nntp4.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: interbev.mindspring.com We're about to install a FreeBSD machine for network monitoring, so keep in mind that although I am not yet a FreeBSD user, it's only a matter of days. I've been trying to get FreeBSD's telnet (telnet, libtelnet, telnetd) to compile with encryption and authentication enabled. I'd like to avoid Kerberos if possible, so I enabled RSA and DES with the appropriate defines. The trouble is that, when compiling libtelnet, the rsaencpwd.c file used an include file that wasn't included in the source (cdc.h). After disabling RSA encryption, libtelnet could compile but linking telnet resulted in these errors: enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_new_random_key referenced from text segment enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_ecb_encrypt referenced from text segment enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_set_random_generator_seed referenced from text segment enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_key_sched referenced from text segment Can anyone tell me whether FreeBSD's telnet works in encrypted mode, and what pieces I have to grap for other operating systems if I wish to use it? Obviously usr.bin/telnet, lib/libtelnet, and libexec/telnetd. Where can I find the missing pieces for the RSA and DES components? I'm compiling this for Linux, AIX, BSDI, and (soon) FreeBSD. Many thanks, -- Robert From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 04:25:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA06116 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 04:25:06 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA06103 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 04:24:39 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id NAA26168 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:24:14 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id NAA10598 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:24:14 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504211124.NAA10598@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: crypt folks? To: rsanders@interbev.mindspring.com (Robert Sanders) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:24:13 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD), jkh@FreeBSD.org (Jordan Hubbard) In-Reply-To: <199504211049.DAA08127@violet.berkeley.edu> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 03:49:35 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 798 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can anyone tell me whether FreeBSD's telnet works in encrypted mode, > and what pieces I have to grap for other operating systems if I wish > to use it? Obviously usr.bin/telnet, lib/libtelnet, and libexec/telnetd. > Where can I find the missing pieces for the RSA and DES components? You'll need libdes from Eric Young. It was posted in altr.sources a good while ago. It is available on several .au site and probably ftp.funet.fi, and so on. You can get the securedist distribution for FreeBSD, I think the functions you need are in there. I cannot check the US version of course. I've not tried the non-US stuff available in South Africa yet. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 05:52:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA07035 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 05:52:18 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA07028 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 05:52:15 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id WAA14986; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:04:38 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504210204.WAA14986@hda.com> Subject: Re: german beer... To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:04:33 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199504201924.VAA03709@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 20, 95 09:24:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1188 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > As Don Yuniskis wrote: > > > > > Weissbier, Weissbier ! (better known as Weizen in the North of Germany, > > > those Nordlichter just don't have a clue :) Otherwise, I won't come. > > > > Actually, the reference was intended to Augustiner Brau, right joerg? :> > > Don, there's so many good beer here in germany, that the brand doesn't > matter too much. Since i don't live in Bayern, i don't prefer > Augustiner Bräu that much - but who cares? For you americans, i guess > almost every german beer might be a good beer. :-) Joerg, where have you been? My wife went to school with someone in Colorado who has made his living full time since 1977 advising American microbreweries on their brewing. I suspect he is more successful than I am. There are three brew pubs within .5 hour of Pepperell, and Pepperell is about as big as it sounds it is. This may not be Germany, but the US is no longer a brewing wasteland either. (And I have got to bottle that lager brewing in the basement) -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 05:52:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA07025 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 05:52:12 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA07018 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 05:52:08 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id WAA15141; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:24:07 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504210224.WAA15141@hda.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:24:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <12800.798418317@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 20, 95 03:51:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2456 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > Also, in Jordan's e-mail there was something that implied perhaps > > FreeBSD should consider reducing its standards, since all we do is > > think about releasing quality stuff until it reaches a fever point > > where we push out the garbage (yes, I'm paraphrasing a little), > > "after all, look at Linux". > > > > I say: NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO. > > I meant no such implication. I simply stated that our current "high > standards" are essentially MEANINGLESS because we always abandon the > high ground at the last minute with a panic release. Clearly, > releases must happen often. Also clearly, we must have high > standards. Our current model isn't working. I doubt that the "Linux > model" would work for us either, I simply pointed to it to illustrate > another point, which was that the measure of *success* is in picking a > model that's successful and sticking with it. Linux has picked a > model that's successful for them, and they're sticking with it. We've > picked a model that doesn't work (be really fussy then panic) and > we're struggling to make the best of it. This sucks. WE NEED TO DO > THIS DIFFERENTLY, AND WHAT I NEED ARE MORE WELL-THOUGHT-OUT > SUGGESTIONS AND ACTUAL MENTAL ACTIVITY ON THE PART OF THOSE INVOLVED > RATHER THAN SIMPLE, EASY-TO-CAST CRITICISMS! > > Excuse my caps, but I'm getting kinda sick of this. Everybody wants > to criticise our driving but nobody wants to take a turn at the wheel > or start offering genuinely helpful and constructive directions on > where to steer. I don't mean to overtly criticise Peter himself too > much here, he's just one example of the syndrome I'm talking about > here. I don't understand what you're sick of, or what syndrome I'm a bad example of. As far as I knew, 2.1 was imminent. I produced the code I thought I could contribute for 2.1 (in spite of a heavy schedule) in plenty of time for testing for the previously announced 2.1 release (the fixes to the SCSI configuration), and only now do I learn that 2.1 isn't planned until June. I gave you my model: Two releases per year, possibly two bug fix releases per year, a plea not to push stuff out in a panic, and a new request which is to keep the volunteers appraised of what is going on. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 06:06:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA07184 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 06:06:24 -0700 Received: from irbs.com (irbs.com [199.182.75.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA07177 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 06:06:21 -0700 Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA03004 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:06:17 -0400 From: John Capo Message-Id: <199504211306.JAA03004@irbs.com> Subject: Re: ISDN support? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (freebsd-hackers) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:06:16 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <4392.798455450@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 02:10:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 168 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk An ISDN terminal adapter attached to a serial port is painless. Look at http://alumni.caltech.edu/~dank/isdn for all you ever wanted to know about ISDN. -- John Capo From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 06:59:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA07729 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 06:59:26 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA07723 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 06:59:23 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id JAA16639; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:56:52 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504211356.JAA16639@hda.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504201827.UAA01354@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Apr 20, 95 08:27:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1403 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte writes: > > > 2) Automatic generation/removal of devices on bus reset. For > > instance, attach a device to the SCSI device chain, or > > power on a tape on the chain that was not powered on at > > boot time, and it can be made available. The existance > > of a device file is no longer an ambiguous marker. > > Yuck! Powering up/down for SCSI devices on the fly is generally a > sure way to hang the buses, screw the disks etc. It *should* work, > but my experience shows that it has something like a 20% chance to > bomb. > This is true, though with practice you only have to restore your disks once a year. We still have a nasty bug someplace that results in unending disk timeouts and eventual system death. Usually, though our disk drivers will redo a transfer that was in progress when a device powered up on the bus, assuming the disk drive properly detects the power up. A utility that suspends all activity on the SCSI bus will make powering up a device safe, though, and I've been thinking of doing it (suspend activity, beep when all activity is suspended, delay for 10 seconds, and permit activity to resume). To be honest I power things up on the bus all the time. I also do backups at night. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 07:01:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA07783 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:01:03 -0700 Received: from mail.tamu.edu (MAIL.TAMU.EDU [128.194.103.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA07777 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:00:59 -0700 Received: from vcsun2.tamu.edu (vcsun2.tamu.edu [128.194.169.97]) by mail.tamu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA16871 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:02:04 -0500 Received: from vcsun1.tamu.edu by vcsun2.tamu.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA11986; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:59:55 -0500 Received: by vcsun1.tamu.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA07098; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:59:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:59:54 -0500 From: tbrown@vcsun2.tamu.edu (Tom Brown) Message-Id: <9504211359.AA07098@vcsun1.tamu.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: mbone tunnel Cc: tbrown@vcsun2.tamu.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk has anyone successfully built an mbone tunnel using a 2.0SNAP? what was it tunneled to? just curious before i tried it myself. thanks, tom -- Tom Brown loc: Wiesenbaker 232-E Graduate Research Assistant email: tbrown@vcsun1.tamu.edu Dept. of Electrical Engineering www: http://tam2000.tamu.edu/~tbb6141 Texas A&M University phone: (409)-845-5774 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 07:20:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08099 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:20:11 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA08093 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:20:07 -0700 Received: (from imp@localhost) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA13050 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:19:33 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:19:33 -0600 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: <199504211419.IAA13050@rover.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Upgrade paths Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In the past there has been a definite lack of an upgrade path for FreeBSD (you have basically had to reinstall). Will there be time for sufficent upgrade tools to be written before the deadline? Warner P.S. If this has already been beat to death, please let me know. My disk overflowed and some mail was lost. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 07:30:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08330 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:30:30 -0700 Received: from sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (eastham.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu [146.245.1.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA08324 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:30:27 -0700 Received: from robeson.brooklyn.cuny.edu (robeson.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu) by sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1a) id AA19221; Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:30:29 EDT Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:30:29 EDT From: dayton@sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (Dayton Clark) Message-Id: <9504211430.AA19221@sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu> Received: by robeson.brooklyn.cuny.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05409; Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:30:19 EDT To: cstruble@vt.edu Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: (message from Craig Struble on Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:07:32 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: A running pthreads? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk <.> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 17:07:32 -0400 (EDT) <.> From: Craig Struble <.> Reply-To: cstruble@vt.edu <.> Mime-Version: 1.0 <.> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII <.> Precedence: bulk <.> <.> I keep reading about getting pthreads running under 2.x. I have built a <.> 1.60b2 version and managed to get it working. I'm reluctant to put it out <.> for random consumption because the installation is less than palatable. <.> <.> If people desire, I can put a hacked copy of it up on some server, with <.> the understanding that it's definitely not up to being FreeBSD port <.> quality, ie. you can't simply type make and have it do the right things. <.> And right now, I just don't have the time to work on it to put it in that <.> state. If someone is willing to take it to the next level, that's fine <.> with me. I've been working on 1.60b2 under 2.0. I've had to put it aside for a bit but I'd like to see what you've done. Please make it available somewhere. dayton _________ _____/ D \_____________ | | | Dayton Clark | | CIS Department | | Brooklyn College/CUNY | | Brooklyn, New York 11210 | | | | 718/951-4811 | | dayton@brooklyn.cuny.edu | |___________________________| From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 07:31:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08346 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:31:11 -0700 Received: from anvil.appsmiths.com (anvil.appsmiths.com [198.65.131.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA08340 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:31:06 -0700 Received: (from hoppy@localhost) by anvil.appsmiths.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA29787 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:30:43 -0500 From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Message-Id: <199504211430.JAA29787@anvil.appsmiths.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:30:42 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199504202110.RAA08175@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> from "Gene Stark" at Apr 20, 95 05:10:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2558 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk :: :: >Let it be forever noted that 2.0 was an exception. [...] :: :: I disagree with this, as the prior release that was burned into CD-ROM :: (1.1) IMHO was also an inferior release due to a rushed testing phase. :: Release 1.1.5.1, which is the best release to date, was essentially the :: result of testing and bug fixes applied to 1.1. [...] Hmm... familiar territory. I have the 1.0 CD for my 1.1.5.1 system, and the 2.0 for my 2.x-development -- neither of which match anything I'm running. More importantly, If somebody rang me up this morning and said "Okay Hoppy, I like this FreeBSD idea you were telling me about. Let's put it on our 200 in-house PC's, when can you start", I would be in a pinch. The excellent comments on how to achive stable releases notwithstanding, the immutability of the CD-ROM once burned (at WC's expense) is at least one aspect of the problem. I suspect that WC would not be pleased to hear about how the "2.0 CDs they spent good money on are no good". If I remember the DEC days right, I used to get a big tape with VMS on it, and then 1-n patch tapes that I had to feed in right behind it if I wanted to get to whatever point release (there were always patches). In fact, the version from the fat 9-track always warned you that you had not applied your patches. (They assumed from the git-go that the big release would never run in that form). Discounting the source-level consumers (who are going to get the current source under their own power anyway), I wonder if it would improve matters if WC could ship a "patch floppy"(s) along with their current "burned" CD version of FreeBSD. Right now, WC could be shipping the 2.0 CD with sufficient patches to turn it into a much-more-stable mid-march version, rather than waiting for D-day to burn another batch. Everyone seems to be unable (for their own good reasons) to get a good release to the field -- even though better snaps exist. The mechanism should be automagic for the binary installation. It should also know how to upgrade an older system in place. To me these are the essance of how prospective users can use FreeBSD without having to be or pay an expert. -- =============================================================================== Clay D. Hopperdietzel hoppy@appsmiths.com AppSmiths, Inc. Voice (713) 578-0154 Fax (713) 578-6182 15915 Katy Fwy, Suite 470 Where do *I* Want to Go Today? Houston, Texas 77094 FreeBSD! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 07:52:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08934 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:52:41 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA08926 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:52:27 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA23965; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:48:35 +1000 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:48:35 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504211448.AAA23965@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Returned mail: Re: Booting from second hard drive (SCSI) problems (Again!!) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >#ifdef BOOT_HD >> > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 1); /* a good first bet */ >> >#else >> > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* a good first bet */ >> >#endif >> >> Shouldn't this be >> >> >#ifdef BOOT_HD >> > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 1 : 2); /* a bad first bet */ >> >#else >> > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* another bad first bet */ >> >#endif >> >> ? >NO, I had it correct.. >major 0 if off a floppy and major 1 if not.. The above gives major 0 if off a hard disk and major 1 if off a floppy (the 0x80 bit is for hard disks). >major 1 is a 'pseudo' mojor which is later changed to 2 or 4 >depending on whether it's scsi Actually, major 1 is later changed to 0 or 4 (2 is the floppy major). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 07:55:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA09018 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:55:40 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA08987 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:54:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA21595 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:45:35 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504211445.QAA21595@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: wchar_t definition... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:45:34 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1297 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This was on snap950322 with XFree86-3.1. While compiling the stock xdvi (xdvk-1.18f) I got the following errors: In file included from xdvi.h:22, from config.h:43, from xdvi.c:86: /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h:74: conflicting types for `wchar_t' /usr/include/stdlib.h:50: previous declaration of `wchar_t' In file included from xdvi.h:24, from config.h:43, from xdvi.c:86: /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xos.h:107: conflicting types for `sys_errlist' /usr/include/stdio.h:244: previous declaration of `sys_errlist' *** Error code 1 In file included from sfinternal.h:34, from sfDraw.c:33: /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xos.h:107: conflicting types for `sys_errlist' /usr/include/stdio.h:244: previous declaration of `sys_errlist' and so on. Apart the obvious thing (fix the application), should we fix the (XFree) header files so that they are consistent with ours ? Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 07:59:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA09077 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:59:30 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09071 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:59:26 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA02677; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:01:20 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504211501.LAA02677@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: Beer To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de In-Reply-To: <3940.798454595@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 01:56:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 782 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there , > > This is an interesting idea. Anyone else in the Bay Area want to work > on scheduling this? If we do it in the next week, David Greenman will > also be able to come since he flew down here last night to work on > wcarchive. Gary, Poul-Henning, Justin, Satoshi and Jack are already > here.. That's at least 6 core members in the bay area and an unknown > number of long-time -hackers alumnus.. > > Jordan > > > Really, wouldn't it be nice to have a FreeBSD party? (Well this is > > the nineties--a FreeBSD sociallizing occasion--) Well, if there will be any - don't forget to bring Polaroid. The picture of core team gathered together around fire place would be great addition to www.freebsd.org :) I'm pretty damn serious here ;) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 08:01:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09114 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:01:24 -0700 Received: from sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (eastham.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu [146.245.1.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA09103 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:01:21 -0700 Received: from robeson.brooklyn.cuny.edu (robeson.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu) by sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1a) id AA19253; Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:01:11 EDT Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:01:11 EDT From: dayton@sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (Dayton Clark) Message-Id: <9504211501.AA19253@sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu> Received: by robeson.brooklyn.cuny.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05417; Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:01:00 EDT To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Toren on Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:18:43 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: pthreads build problem Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk <.> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 21:18:43 -0400 (EDT) <.> From: Richard Toren <.> X-Sender: rpt@miles <.> Mime-Version: 1.0 <.> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII <.> Precedence: bulk <.> <.> Putting aside the rewindstdin problem, I jumped right into another. <.> <.> Trying to build pthreads-1_60_beta2.tar on my 2.0R system gave me <.> an assembler error on the very first file. I did : <.> >#.configure <.> >#make <.> {delete shell for loop] <.> open <.> as: /usr/tmp/cc006726.s:227: invalid character '_' in opcode <.> *** Error code 1 <.> I overcame this problem by putting -traditional on gcc when producing the assembly code. The problem has to do with catenation macros. dayton _________ _____/ D \_____________ | | | Dayton Clark | | CIS Department | | Brooklyn College/CUNY | | Brooklyn, New York 11210 | | | | 718/951-4811 | | dayton@brooklyn.cuny.edu | |___________________________| From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 08:01:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09111 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:01:24 -0700 Received: from tonic.gmd.de (tonic.gmd.de [192.76.247.81]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09098 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:01:19 -0700 Received: (from dws@localhost) by tonic.gmd.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA15147; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:00:44 +0200 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:00:44 +0200 From: Dirk Steinberg Message-Id: <9504211500.ZM15146@tonic.gmd.de> Reply-To: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, After some deadly failures I succeeded in compiling and running FreeBSD-950417 with maximum gcc optimization: "-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer". As for the gcc flags, this is easily accomplished by editing /etc/make.conf for the user-level code. For the kernel itself the appropriate line in the Makefile containing the "COPTFLAGS" definition needs to be adapted. Needless to say, for both the kernel and the user-land, this didn't work at first: /usr/libexec/ld.so fails horribly when compiled with "-fomit-frame-pointer". I learned the hard way :-( (after compiling /bin and /sbin dynamically...). For the kernel compile, the functions dummyinit() in in kern/init_main.c and dummy_cleanup() in kern/kern_xxx.c get optimized away by gcc when compiling with an optimization setting higher than "-O2", e.g. "-O3". The following patch fixes these problems. Apart from these, the machine now runs happily with an uptime of 3 days... - Dirk PS: If I could only get a new sup from freefall... It replies to ping, but the supfilesrv seems to have died. diff -ur 950417/lib/csu/i386/Makefile ./lib/csu/i386/Makefile --- 950417/lib/csu/i386/Makefile Thu Mar 30 11:09:46 1995 +++ ./lib/csu/i386/Makefile Sun Apr 23 23:36:35 1995 @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ # from: @(#)Makefile 5.6 (Berkeley) 5/22/91 # $Id: Makefile,v 1.15 1995/03/30 06:40:31 phk Exp $ -CFLAGS+= -DLIBC_SCCS -DDYNAMIC +CFLAGS+= -DLIBC_SCCS -DDYNAMIC -fno-omit-frame-pointer OBJS= crt0.o gcrt0.o c++rt0.o CLEANFILES+= a.out MAN3+= dlopen.3 diff -ur 950417/sys/kern/init_main.c ./sys/kern/init_main.c --- 950417/sys/kern/init_main.c Mon Apr 10 22:20:26 1995 +++ ./sys/kern/init_main.c Mon Apr 17 19:54:21 1995 @@ -110,7 +110,7 @@ * called to initialize various pseudo-devices and whatnot. */ -static void dummyinit() {} +void dummyinit() {} TEXT_SET(pseudo_set, dummyinit); typedef void (*pseudo_func_t)(void); diff -ur 950417/sys/kern/kern_xxx.c ./sys/kern/kern_xxx.c --- 950417/sys/kern/kern_xxx.c Sun Dec 4 20:58:43 1994 +++ ./sys/kern/kern_xxx.c Mon Apr 17 19:53:16 1995 @@ -46,7 +46,7 @@ /* This implements a "TEXT_SET" for cleanup functions */ -static void +void dummy_cleanup() {} TEXT_SET(cleanup_set, dummy_cleanup); ------------ snip, snip ----------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dirk W. Steinberg - German National Research Center for Computer Science (GMD) Institute for Application-Oriented Software- and Systems Technology (ISA-NW) Network Engineering Department - Rathausallee 10 - D-53754 Sankt Augustin Phone: +49 2241 14-3182 - Fax: +49 2241 14-3038 - Email: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 08:06:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09260 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:06:28 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA09253 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:06:26 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12439; Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:03:53 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504211503.AA12439@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:03:51 -0500 (CDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504201827.UAA01354@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Apr 20, 95 08:27:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 752 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [...] > Yuck! Powering up/down for SCSI devices on the fly is generally a > sure way to hang the buses, screw the disks etc. It *should* work, > but my experience shows that it has something like a 20% chance to > bomb. My fav Sun trick: "L1-A, (putz with scsi bus), go" My not-so-fav BSD trick: "halt, (putz with scsi bus), hit space to reboot" Oh, how I wish for some way to just "pause" the OS sometimes. :-) It's sooooo handy and convenient to just add a tape drive by just plugging it in. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 08:08:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09286 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:08:03 -0700 Received: from tonic.gmd.de (tonic.gmd.de [192.76.247.81]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09278 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:07:58 -0700 Received: (from dws@localhost) by tonic.gmd.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA15154; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:02:48 +0200 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:02:48 +0200 From: Dirk Steinberg Message-Id: <9504211502.ZM15153@tonic.gmd.de> Reply-To: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: sup of CVS tree Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am just wondering if it is possible to sup the CVS tree instead of the checked-out source tree. Or is there any other way to get hold of it? FTP, diffs, what-not? Dirk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dirk W. Steinberg - German National Research Center for Computer Science (GMD) Institute for Application-Oriented Software- and Systems Technology (ISA-NW) Network Engineering Department - Rathausallee 10 - D-53754 Sankt Augustin Phone: +49 2241 14-3182 - Fax: +49 2241 14-3038 - Email: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 08:20:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09470 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:20:51 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09464 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:20:49 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id KAA10523 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:20:35 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:20:35 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504211520.KAA10523@plains.nodak.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. Content-Length: 486 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As J Wunsch wrote: > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > ... On the bright side, it looks like my house was finally > > purchased today, and so fairly soon I'll finally have a place to live > > after 8 months of sleeping in a corner of the floor! Hurrah! :-) > > Congrat's! When do you give your party? :-) then can Jordan draw a list of suitable house warming gifts (such as big screen HDTV sets, computer compatiable video, sound equipment, STNG commerative dishes, etc)? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 08:43:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09771 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:43:37 -0700 Received: from redbird.cc.purdue.edu (redbird.cc.purdue.edu [128.210.7.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09765 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:43:34 -0700 Received: from localhost by redbird.cc.purdue.edu (8.6.10/Purdue_CC) id KAA25380; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:43:25 -0500 Message-Id: <199504211543.KAA25380@redbird.cc.purdue.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6gamma 3/31/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Release stability (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 1995 00:34:55 MST." <2448.798449695@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:43:24 -0500 From: Bill Bormann Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed > > many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There > > was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. > > > > The focus was shifted during each release to concentrate on the > > primary goal of that release. Customers knew what to expect in > > general terms. > > > > We seem to be trying to do all three simultaneously and I don't think > > its really possible to do. > > This is about the best general summary of the situation I've seen yet. > > Yes, I think that a new/stable/fast cycle of 3 has a lot to be said > for it. What would people say to us going to the following numbering > scheme in support of this? > > .<0,1,2[,3..]>[.] > > Where a bump in would signal a fairly major paradigm shift of > some sort, the 0 release for which would be the "features" release. > It wouldn't be guaranteed not to eat you and your entire family for > breakfast, it would be for the rocket jockeys who enjoy riding out on > the bleeding edge. The .1 release would be the fixed version of the > .0 and for the more staid sorts. The .2 release would be the final > stage of evolution with things sped up and generally made to work > "optimally", for whatever the value of optimum might be. > > If we needed snapshots, those would trail between in the "100's place" > with things like 2.0.1 or 2.1.2 being valid and reasonable snapshot > names (the 1st post-2.0 snapshot and 2nd post-2.1 snapshots, > respectively). > > This would also remove Garrett's objection to date-based snapshot > names. I could be more than happy with a release numbering scheme > (and underlying philosophy) like this. What say the rest of you? > > Jordan I like this idea. I am still running 1.1.5.1, having deliberately skipped the 2.0 release because I was not convinced 2.0 would be as stable as the its predecessor. Maybe the easiest way to answer these questions is to think about who is running FreeBSD and then tailor your releases for that audience. I think the program Jordon proposes would certainly meet my needs. I will explain why. I write client server applications and do routine system maintenance on a variety of operating systems. During my career I've worked on (probably) a dozen different operating systems (MVS, RSTS/E, VM, Unix, MS-DOS, Windows, etc.), so I've seen just about everything out there. I tend to look at any OS from a detached, dispassionate frame of mind. My priorities are reliability, comfort ("ease of use"), and performance. I tried doing my job running Windows 3.1. Windows was too unstable and too inefficient; a crash every two or three days may be ok for Microsoft, but I found it too annoying. FreeBSD (with XFree) provides the best work environment I have ever experienced. Even though I am no Unix guru, FreeBSD was easy to install, easy to configure, and easy to upgrade. It has been a simple matter to add packages as I needed them. But, I have to be careful. Management here, like management everywhere, is suspicious of anything free, because they believe that free software indirectly sucks dollars out of their pocket by diverting intellectual resources into bug fix and support for the free package. I don't dare upgrade without monitoring the hackers and questions list for FreeBSD, because I have to be very well informed about what you are doing and what problems I should expect before I walk the upgrade plank. There are probably a few people who run FreeBSD in the same situation. For me to know the x.1 and x.2 versions have certain target standards adds that important "warm fuzzy feeling" and simplifies my decision process about upgrading my system. Bill Bormann ad2@cc.purdue.edu (Internet) | Purdue University Computing Center | 1408 Mathematical Sciences Building | West Lafayette, IN 47907-1408 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 08:46:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09838 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:46:20 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA09831 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:46:18 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12538; Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:45:43 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504211545.AA12538@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: crypt folks? To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:45:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, rsanders@interbev.mindspring.com In-Reply-To: <199504211049.DAA08127@violet.berkeley.edu> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 03:49:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2088 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Path: agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!rsanders > From: rsanders@interbev.mindspring.com (Robert Sanders) > Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc > Subject: Secure (encrypted) telnet > Date: 20 Apr 1995 13:36:41 GMT > Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. > Lines: 26 > Message-ID: <3n5o19$h32@nntp4.mindspring.com> > NNTP-Posting-Host: interbev.mindspring.com > > We're about to install a FreeBSD machine for network monitoring, so keep > in mind that although I am not yet a FreeBSD user, it's only a matter of > days. > > I've been trying to get FreeBSD's telnet (telnet, libtelnet, telnetd) to > compile with encryption and authentication enabled. I'd like to avoid > Kerberos if possible, so I enabled RSA and DES with the appropriate > defines. The trouble is that, when compiling libtelnet, the rsaencpwd.c > file used an include file that wasn't included in the source (cdc.h). > After disabling RSA encryption, libtelnet could compile but linking > telnet resulted in these errors: > > enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_new_random_key referenced from text segment > enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_ecb_encrypt referenced from text segment > enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_set_random_generator_seed referenced from text segment > enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_key_sched referenced from text segment > > Can anyone tell me whether FreeBSD's telnet works in encrypted mode, > and what pieces I have to grap for other operating systems if I wish > to use it? Obviously usr.bin/telnet, lib/libtelnet, and libexec/telnetd. > Where can I find the missing pieces for the RSA and DES components? > > I'm compiling this for Linux, AIX, BSDI, and (soon) FreeBSD. You need the DES functions from Kerberos. The ones supplied with eBones are insufficient. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 08:51:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09982 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:51:57 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09976 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 08:51:54 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id LAA17006; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:51:01 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504211551.LAA17006@hda.com> Subject: keep hacker mail hacker related To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504210204.WAA14986@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 20, 95 10:04:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 404 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry, -hackers, I didn't mean to send that beer mail to -hackers. I meant to send it to Joerg only. Aside from occasional lapses, I'll try to keep -hacker mail hacker related. For social chat we can create chat@freebsd.org. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 09:01:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10099 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:01:13 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10092 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:01:01 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA25506; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 01:57:34 +1000 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 01:57:34 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504211557.BAA25506@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >My fav Sun trick: "L1-A, (putz with scsi bus), go" >My not-so-fav BSD trick: "halt, (putz with scsi bus), hit space to reboot" >Oh, how I wish for some way to just "pause" the OS sometimes. :-) It's >sooooo handy and convenient to just add a tape drive by just plugging it in. What's wrong with Ctrl-SysRq to enter ddb? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 09:02:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10131 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:02:42 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10125 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:02:38 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id LAA18134; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:02:28 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:02:28 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504211602.LAA18134@plains.nodak.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, tbrown@vcsun2.tamu.edu Subject: Re: mbone tunnel Content-Length: 34 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk it works in 950322-SNAP. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 09:03:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10146 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:03:33 -0700 Received: from obiwan.pmr.com (obiwan.pmr.com [199.98.84.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA10137 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:03:31 -0700 Received: by obiwan.pmr.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0s2L9l-000300C; Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:02 CDT Message-Id: From: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: ISDN support? To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:02:09 -0500 (CDT) Cc: mul@lab1033.berlin.ptb.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504201511.AA10561@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 20, 95 10:11:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1013 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco wrote: > > My own experience is with external ISDN terminal adaptors - connect one to a > serial port and it looks somewhat like a modem. Works great, maybe not what > you're looking for, but it's at least a solution if you don't find any ISDN > cards (the selection isn't great from what I understand). A relatively expensive approach (what I am using here at home :-) is the Ascend Pipeline 50. It simply attaches to the ISDN line on one side (I have the one with the builtin NT1) and my ethernet LAN on the other. I have it running in a dedicated two channel connection (total of 128kb) to my ISP. The thing I like about it most is that all I had to do is plug it in, configure it (about like configuring a complex modem, I guess), and from that point on it just worked...happily takes care of itself. I don't know whether these things are available outside of the US, but I would guess that something similar is... -- Bob Willcox bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 09:14:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10361 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:14:31 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA10355 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:14:29 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12681; Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:12:13 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504211612.AA12681@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:12:12 -0500 (CDT) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu In-Reply-To: <199504211557.BAA25506@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 22, 95 01:57:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1006 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >My fav Sun trick: "L1-A, (putz with scsi bus), go" > > >My not-so-fav BSD trick: "halt, (putz with scsi bus), hit space to reboot" > > >Oh, how I wish for some way to just "pause" the OS sometimes. :-) It's > >sooooo handy and convenient to just add a tape drive by just plugging it in. > > What's wrong with Ctrl-SysRq to enter ddb? "ddb: No debugger in kernel" Those of us running unattended production systems cannot afford to have a machine crash into ddb, and not reboot. Otherwise, I'd agree... but right now, I have to drive a half hour to go reboot systems that lock. (by the way, this is one of the things that I hope serial consoles will buy for me, but haven't gotten around to checking on it. Is there any Ctrl-SysRq equivalent available on a serial console? BREAK?) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 09:17:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10403 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:17:12 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA10397 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:17:09 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12714; Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:14:41 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504211614.AA12714@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: ISDN support? To: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:14:41 -0500 (CDT) Cc: mul@lab1033.berlin.ptb.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Bob Willcox" at Apr 21, 95 11:02:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1499 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Joe Greco wrote: > > > > My own experience is with external ISDN terminal adaptors - connect one to a > > serial port and it looks somewhat like a modem. Works great, maybe not what > > you're looking for, but it's at least a solution if you don't find any ISDN > > cards (the selection isn't great from what I understand). > > A relatively expensive approach (what I am using here at home :-) > is the Ascend Pipeline 50. It simply attaches to the ISDN line on > one side (I have the one with the builtin NT1) and my ethernet LAN > on the other. I have it running in a dedicated two channel connection > (total of 128kb) to my ISP. The thing I like about it most is that > all I had to do is plug it in, configure it (about like configuring > a complex modem, I guess), and from that point on it just > worked...happily takes care of itself. > > I don't know whether these things are available outside of the US, > but I would guess that something similar is... We do that out at work - nice transparent solution. We use Combinet. We have a PRI on this end and a concentrator. We install BRI's and add an Ethernet card to an employee's home machine. You'd never know you weren't directly on our hell-net (the broadcasts go thru too). ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 09:30:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10627 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:30:58 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10617 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:30:43 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA26034; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:27:48 +1000 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:27:48 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504211627.CAA26034@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >Oh, how I wish for some way to just "pause" the OS sometimes. :-) It's >> >sooooo handy and convenient to just add a tape drive by just plugging it in. >> >> What's wrong with Ctrl-SysRq to enter ddb? >"ddb: No debugger in kernel" >Those of us running unattended production systems cannot afford to have a >machine crash into ddb, and not reboot. Otherwise, I'd agree... but right >now, I have to drive a half hour to go reboot systems that lock. This is easy to fix. E.g., replace Debugger() by a dummy version and put the old version in the keyboard driver alone, and maybe disable breakpoint and trace traps unless the debugger has been reached via the keyboard trap. >(by the way, this is one of the things that I hope serial consoles will buy >for me, but haven't gotten around to checking on it. Is there any >Ctrl-SysRq equivalent available on a serial console? BREAK?) BREAK, if it is enabled by a million ifdefs. Serial consoles have the same problem with automatic reboots. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 09:34:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10728 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:34:43 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10722 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:34:36 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA08622; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:31:44 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504211631.JAA08622@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Beer To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de In-Reply-To: <3940.798454595@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 01:56:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1067 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is an interesting idea. Anyone else in the Bay Area want to work > on scheduling this? If we do it in the next week, David Greenman will > also be able to come since he flew down here last night to work on > wcarchive. Gary, Poul-Henning, Justin, Satoshi and Jack are already > here.. That's at least 6 core members in the bay area and an unknown > number of long-time -hackers alumnus.. Give me 3 days notice and I can make it down pretty easy if someone is willing to swing by OAK or SFO. > Jordan > > > Really, wouldn't it be nice to have a FreeBSD party? (Well this is > > the nineties--a FreeBSD sociallizing occasion--) > > > > Since Jordan has a lot of fires to tend to, I volunteer my house, which is > > in Santa Clara, heart of cheap equipment and very little soul. (But we > > do try :-) > > > > It's not Europe, but it is California! > > > > Cheers, > > Russell > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 09:46:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10937 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:46:15 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA10931 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:46:14 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03566; Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:39:51 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504211639.AA03566@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:39:50 MDT In-Reply-To: <1799.798448037@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 00:07:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'll keep this brief, in respect of the request for reduced mail load. [ ... BSD in throes of second system syndrome (S^3)... ] With respect, S^3 is something that students fall prey to. You might argue that companies do so as well; I susbmit that these are not successful companies. > If you've been a developer all those years and for all those > companies as you say, then you KNOW exactly what's going on with > the core team right now and you also know that you're about as > able to stop it as you are able to stop the earth from rotating. [ ... inevitability od S^3 ... ] I disagree. This is true of companies of 5 or less people -- ie: companies without a release engineer. Since it is the release engineer's option to take any snapshot of a source tree and turn it into a release, unless the RE him/herself falls prey to S^3, you don't have a problem. Any you hire RE's based on this job being their third or later system. [ ... involved in the classic errors ... ] This misses my original point, which is these errors are violations of the release protocol. It is still not a flawed protocol that puts people in a bad position, it's flawed enforcement of a good protocol. Models based on flawed protocol don't last long enough for S^3 to set in. > We're going pretty well, all things considered, and there are > certain hoops we're just going to insist on jumping through, no > matter how much we may know about them in advance! The release engineer's job is to take before and after pictures and use only the before pictures if it's a flaming hoop and he's not really sure that the jumpers clothes aren't on fire yet. I seriously suggest "The Mythical Man Month" and Guy Kawasaki's "The Macintosh Way" (which has the full business plan in it). I suspect most of us are old and crusty enough that we've read these once or twice already. [ ... good suggestions going by without comment ... ] Typically, these are common-sense statements, and there's no need to comment. All of us Monday morning quarterbacks 8^) manage by exception, which is to say we try for course corrections only if we see something wrong, and you don't stir otherwise. This is a practice that results in occasional criticism but little praise (and Jordan himself does this occasionally 8-)). Anyway, recognition of problems is the most important step to take in solving them. Good job, guys! Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 10:13:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11542 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:13:39 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11533 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:13:33 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12863; Fri, 21 Apr 95 12:12:38 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504211712.AA12863@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:12:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl In-Reply-To: <199504211627.CAA26034@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 22, 95 02:27:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2057 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >"ddb: No debugger in kernel" > > >Those of us running unattended production systems cannot afford to have a > >machine crash into ddb, and not reboot. Otherwise, I'd agree... but right > >now, I have to drive a half hour to go reboot systems that lock. > > This is easy to fix. E.g., replace Debugger() by a dummy version and put > the old version in the keyboard driver alone, and maybe disable breakpoint > and trace traps unless the debugger has been reached via the keyboard trap. ...which I wouldn't bother with because my systems will begin running kbdless in the near future (i.e. 2.1R). :-) > >(by the way, this is one of the things that I hope serial consoles will buy > >for me, but haven't gotten around to checking on it. Is there any > >Ctrl-SysRq equivalent available on a serial console? BREAK?) > > BREAK, if it is enabled by a million ifdefs. Serial consoles have the > same problem with automatic reboots. Yes, but then when my pager/etc go off to warn me that a system is down, all I need to do is to telnet/dial in to the box that is holding the other end of the serial console, resume a "screen" session, and switch to the appropriate kermit session. :-) Driving 20 minutes at 3A.M. is enough of a pain in the a** that I can trivially justify the small sum of money it costs me to do something like this. Spending 5 minutes to dial in is better than the 45 minutes currently required for several of the systems. And a single serial card is invariably cheaper than the combination of a keyboard and VGA card, even if it's one of the $32 16550 cards I'm so fond of... I'm not sure just how well this works into the original topic of SCSI-temporary-halts. If Mr. Dufalt(? I think) can come up with a utility to provide similar functionality, that seems like an easier (and maybe more correct?) solution. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 10:15:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11596 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:15:16 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11589 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:15:07 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03664; Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:08:43 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504211708.AA03664@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:08:42 MDT In-Reply-To: <199504210658.IAA07682@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 21, 95 08:58:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > How about decompiling the SCO driver ? Russian copyright law explicitly > > allows decompiling of software for studying the interface of > > hardware or software. > > Huuh! Use this right as long as you can. :-) > > Remember Terry's note about `cleanrooming'. *You*'re the guys who > could provide people outside with the cleanroomed interface > descriptions. > > I'm sure, Russia will get enough pressure from the western countries > to adopt to the western copyright laws. Just so people don't think they can't do this in the US, don't be fooled: this is perfectly legal in the US aw well, and is how Phoenix wrote their BIOS. There was a recent court case where Microsoft won against Stacker on the basis of drawing a distinction between "Reverse Engineering", which is perfectly legal ain the US, and "Deep Reverse Engineering", a term best spoken into a coffee can to get those Darth Vader-like echoes. In the US, civil cases are decided on the basis of "preponderance of evidence", while criminal cases are on the basis of "beyond a resonable doubt". All Microsoft had to do is make their pile of legal briefs and amicus curie ("friend of the court") briefs weigh more than Stacker's. What stacker did is use the same engineers to disaddemble Microsoft's DOS and Windows AND to write the code (hence the "Deep" and hence their legal loss). I really urge that people look into cleanrooming before assuming that the only place it can be done is a non-Berne signatory or non-Gatt signatory country. This is a totally different matter from the obscure crypto laws we have, which are mostly enforcible only through local laws of similar scope in other countries, or direct alliance with the US (NATO, etc.), and for which there are already well known workarounds (the Brasil and South African repositories being examples). I wouldn't have replied, but the message to which I'm responding implies a limitation to where you are allowed to cleanroom which simply does not exist. If people took this to heart, it would artificially restrict the pool of talent that can be used for cleanroom coding -- and that would be a bad thing. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 10:17:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11657 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:17:42 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11651 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:17:41 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA19514; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:17:35 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504211717.KAA19514@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer' To: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504211500.ZM15146@tonic.gmd.de> from "Dirk Steinberg" at Apr 21, 95 05:00:44 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 289 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > containing the "COPTFLAGS" definition needs to be adapted. You can set that in /etc/make.conf as well... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 10:52:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA12099 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:52:26 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA12093 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:52:22 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA04076; Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:44:18 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504211744.AA04076@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:44:18 MDT Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504211503.AA12439@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 21, 95 10:03:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh, how I wish for some way to just "pause" the OS sometimes. :-) It's > sooooo handy and convenient to just add a tape drive by just plugging it in. Run INN (just joking, just joking...) Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 10:51:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA12088 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:51:31 -0700 Received: from netcom7.netcom.com (bakul@netcom7.netcom.com [192.100.81.115]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA12082 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:51:27 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id KAA11862; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:42:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199504211742.KAA11862@netcom7.netcom.com> To: Joe Greco cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 11:12:12 CDT." <9504211612.AA12681@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:42:23 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Those of us running unattended production systems cannot afford to have a > machine crash into ddb, and not reboot. Otherwise, I'd agree... but right > now, I have to drive a half hour to go reboot systems that lock. Aren't there gizmos that hookup to the reset button on one side and have an RS232 connection on the other side? You have to type some magic sequence to make them do the reset. You hook up the serial connection to another machine that you can access over the net (with appropriate security measures). I have used this with SGI systems but don't know if this was a custom built device or not. Sorry, I don't have any ready references to give you but this'd be a piece of cake with a miniboard (a really nifty 6811 based controller that is very popular with the robotics crowd). Another possibility is to use a BSD X-10 CP290, which sends X-10 commands over power lines to a module that will turn on / off anything connected to it. You probably don't want to power cycle your computer so you'd have to hookup a 110V relay to the reset button. --bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 11:25:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA16131 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:25:25 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16125 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:25:22 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id LAA05949 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:22:38 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id UAA24418; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:21:57 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA01523 Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:17:03 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504211817.UAA01523@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:17:01 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504191017.DAA00268@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 19, 95 03:17:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1678 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev (with possible > >>exceptions for /dev/fd/*). This is a religious issue, I have spoken my > >>religion. > > > >I like it fairly flat. There certainly shouldn't be subdirectories for > >pieces of one device. > > I agree with Bruce. I would have agreed with Rod, but the simple fact is > that our /dev directory is getting very large and bloated, and this will only > get worse. Perhaps /dev/disks/* and /dev/ttys/*, etc, might be a way to > organize things (in other words, by device class). I prefer to not minimize > the number of levels as much as possible, while still providing some > organization. If you want to group the devices, so that a listing of /dev doesn't get too long, why not taking Sun's / SVR4's naming scheme ? It's something like a standard in the Unix market. 6 /dev/sad 34 /dev/dsk 0 /dev/fd 98 /dev/pts 34 /dev/rdsk 50 /dev/rmt 2 /dev/swap 6 /dev/term 4 /dev/fbs 2 /dev/printers 260 /dev/md/dsk 260 /dev/md/rdsk 524 /dev/md 6 /dev/cua 2 /dev/isdn 6 /dev/sound 1526 /dev block devices = dsk, raw devices = rdsk /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0 /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s1 /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s2 /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s3 /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s4 /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s5 /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s6 /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s7 /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s0 /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s1 /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s2 /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s3 /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s4 /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s5 /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s6 /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s7 -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 11:36:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA16240 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:36:01 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA16234 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:35:58 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12999; Fri, 21 Apr 95 13:28:26 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504211828.AA12999@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:28:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu In-Reply-To: <199504211742.KAA11862@netcom7.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Apr 21, 95 10:42:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4107 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > Aren't there gizmos that hookup to the reset button on one > side and have an RS232 connection on the other side? You > have to type some magic sequence to make them do the reset. > You hook up the serial connection to another machine that > you can access over the net (with appropriate security > measures). Yes. This, by the way, is a trivialization of another hack I currently have underway. I come from a land where I was used to 120-day uptimes and a small set (2, 3) of machines to maintain. A crash or lock was very unusual. A lock was almost unheard of, in fact. With the advent of 2.0R, and my transition of a few key production systems (news server, primarily) to 2.0R, locks became a more-than-weekly occurence. In addition, the legacy Suns are showing signs of age and are themselves beginning to lock (hard) at strange intervals. So, I evaluated my needs, and am currently working on the solution. Needs: 1) To be able to access the console of various machines, either locally or remotely. Currently there are 6 machines to worry about. More soon. 2) To be able to knock reset on arbitrary boxes. 3) To be able to power up/down arbitrary pieces of equipment - some because they lack accessible reset lines (Suns), some because I want them to go down quick and not drain the UPS's during power failures, to allow key systems to live longer.. I decided that I could do 1) easily enough with a FreeBSD box ("gaia.sol.net" - an absolutely perfect name :-) ), by putting a multiport serial card in. I was fortunate enough not to limit myself to 8 ports - I bought a BocaBoard 2016 from a friend. The hard part is the resets. It is a strict design requirement that power cycles of gaia (etc) would not affect systems that gaia in turn controlled. This means that I am not able to use a PC parallel port, for example. While I come from a hardware hack background, it's no longer an area I am really active. I am working with a local hardware hack to build me a little "black box" microcontroller. It will have a serial port on it, and talk to one of the BB2016 ports. It in turn will have the ability to drive an arbitrarily high number of output ports (latches), which will control either power or reset lines. It will have minimal intelligence (an AT-command-set type thing to toggle bits, etc) and will generally just act as an output interface for the FreeBSD box. I can beef up the power supply and audit the code such that very-near-100% reliability and uptime can be possible. Now, if I build a few more neurons of intelligence into it: a) it needs to verify that gaia is still functional. It can do this by continuing to chat with gaia over the serial line at intervals. If gaia fails, reset gaia (plus other "backoff" checks). b) in power failure recovery situations, perhaps run some special code to bring up gaia first, and then allow gaia to orchestrate a network restart. c) code all sorts of watchdog stuff into gaia such that gaia can watch the other machines, and reset them via this controller. A cool solution for somebody who does not have ready access to equipment. > I have used this with SGI systems but don't know if this was > a custom built device or not. It's _easy_ to do with a cheap UART and a little logic. As outlined, it's not much more difficult (hardware-wise) to generalize it out a little more. > Sorry, I don't have any ready references to give you but > this'd be a piece of cake with a miniboard (a really nifty > 6811 based controller that is very popular with the robotics > crowd). Another possibility is to use a BSD X-10 CP290, > which sends X-10 commands over power lines to a module that > will turn on / off anything connected to it. You probably > don't want to power cycle your computer so you'd have to > hookup a 110V relay to the reset button. That works, too. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 11:36:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA16253 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:36:55 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA16247 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:36:52 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13025; Fri, 21 Apr 95 13:32:57 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504211832.AA13025@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:32:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504211744.AA04076@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 21, 95 11:44:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1077 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Oh, how I wish for some way to just "pause" the OS sometimes. :-) It's > > sooooo handy and convenient to just add a tape drive by just plugging it in. > > Run INN (just joking, just joking...) # ctlfreebsd pause now ??? :-) Actually, the chief thing I need this for is so that I can connect a tape unit to the far end of my newsfeed. I've got a FreeBSD box under my desk here at MEI that has a serial link to our news server "news.moneng.mei.com", with a 28.8K modem to sol.net. It just sits here and runs uucico all day, taking the compressed packets from news, gzip'ping them, and sending them to news.sol.net. A 28.8K modem link isn't enough these days, even with gzip'ped traffic. I fall about a day behind over the period of a week, and toss about 300MB of news onto tape and hand carry it to news.sol.net. I *gotta* arrange for ISDN... :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 11:55:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA16463 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:55:41 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16442 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:54:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA13550; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:52:21 +0200 Message-Id: <199504211852.UAA13550@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: rsanders@interbev.mindspring.com (Robert Sanders), hackers@FreeBSD.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD), jkh@FreeBSD.org (Jordan Hubbard) Subject: Re: crypt folks? Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:52:21 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Can anyone tell me whether FreeBSD's telnet works in encrypted mode, > > and what pieces I have to grap for other operating systems if I wish > > to use it? Obviously usr.bin/telnet, lib/libtelnet, and libexec/telnetd. > > Where can I find the missing pieces for the RSA and DES components? > > You'll need libdes from Eric Young. It was posted in altr.sources a > good while ago. It is available on several .au site and probably > ftp.funet.fi, and so on. > > You can get the securedist distribution for FreeBSD, I think the > functions you need are in there. I cannot check the US version > of course. The exportable functions are missing the same routines. The only library that will help (I am told) is an authentic Kerberos distribution, and as as far as I am aware, such a thing is not available out of USA/Canada. If anyone knows any different, please let me know. > I've not tried the non-US stuff available in South Africa yet. Don't bother, it does not do it. If anyone in the free world ;-) has done this, please let me know. I am looking after the South African site, and in between a _hectic_ work schedule, I try to collect bits of LEGAL crypt code. (LEGAL = "won't get some poor Yank in the shit") ;-) :-) :-) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 12:03:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA16585 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:03:56 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA16576 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:03:50 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0s2Nxp-000HzcC; Fri, 21 Apr 95 21:02 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.0 #15) id m0s2NVW-0002OfC; Fri, 21 Apr 95 20:32 WET DST Message-Id: From: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Beer To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:32:46 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504210535.WAA01724@geli.clusternet> from "Russell L. Carter" at Apr 20, 95 10:35:05 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 489 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Russell L. Carter: > > Really, wouldn't it be nice to have a FreeBSD party? Yes, definitely ! Give us some time so we can participate, i'd like to help Joerg to carry the beer, and perhaps Bruce, Andrew and all the others from all over the world also want to fly around with some sixpacks! hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 12:04:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA16594 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:04:01 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA16579 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:03:51 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA11946; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:03:13 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504211903.UAA11946@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Release stability (fwd) To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:03:13 +0100 (BST) Cc: bugs@ns1.win.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2448.798449695@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 00:34:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1631 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > > > In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed > > many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There > > was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. > > > > The focus was shifted during each release to concentrate on the > > primary goal of that release. Customers knew what to expect in > > general terms. > > > > We seem to be trying to do all three simultaneously and I don't think > > its really possible to do. > > This is about the best general summary of the situation I've seen yet. > > Yes, I think that a new/stable/fast cycle of 3 has a lot to be said > for it. What would people say to us going to the following numbering > scheme in support of this? > > .<0,1,2[,3..]>[.] This is a very nice idea but it's going to take a lot of organisation on our part. First, development would cease for a large part of the year unless the tree is branched and new code went in on the future .0 tree. Second, who's going to continue doing the bug fix and later performance development. We don't currently have people interested in doing that sort of thing, everyone wants to play with the new toys. Hmmm, the idea would be right if we had a commercial setup but we don't, still need more thought to get this right. The numbering scheme's OK though :-) -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 12:09:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA16724 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:09:54 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA16717 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:09:49 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA11985 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:10:47 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504211910.UAA11985@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers mailing list) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:10:46 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 702 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was just wondering, what do people think about gating hackers mail into the newsgroups. Hackers is a fairly open forum anyway and the new newsgroups are actually pretty good technically so it would boost our presence if we got more traffic going through it. Note, I'm only talking about hackers and I'm only talking about hackers mail going to the newsgroup and not the other way around, we don't want all those Linux flames coming onto the mailing list. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 12:25:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA16860 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:25:17 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA16854 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:25:12 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id NAA13261; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:28:31 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:28:31 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504211928.NAA13261@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Paul Richards "Re: Release stability (fwd)" (Apr 21, 8:03pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Paul Richards , jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Subject: Re: Release stability (fwd) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed > > > many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There > > > was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. > > Yes, I think that a new/stable/fast cycle of 3 has a lot to be said > > for it. What would people say to us going to the following numbering > > scheme in support of this? > > > > .<0,1,2[,3..]>[.] > > This is a very nice idea but it's going to take a lot of organisation on > our part.... > We don't currently have people interested in > doing that sort of thing, everyone wants to play with the new toys. Actually, I'd be interested in doing such a thing except that I wouldn't have the time to do it right. I think you could find some folks who'd be willing to put the time in, but the problem is more of a technical problem. The people who are qualified to accept/reject kernel patches don't have the time to check the patches out. This was obvious in the 1.X -> 2.X phase when folks posted patches. David didn't have the time to back-port patches he had made to the new code which existed in the previous code. I'm afraid this would be the same problem we're facing now. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 12:45:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17081 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:45:30 -0700 Received: from netcom7.netcom.com (bakul@netcom7.netcom.com [192.100.81.115]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17075 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:45:29 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id MAA24392; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:44:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199504211944.MAA24392@netcom7.netcom.com> To: Paul Richards cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers mailing list) Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 20:10:46 BST." <199504211910.UAA11985@isl.cf.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 12:44:13 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't much like the idea because a mailing list - is more informal and yet people are more careful in how they interact with others. - has a high S/N ratio - has much shorter propogation time. - is more of a peer group I also don't like the idea of one-way connections. It comes off as rather elitist and people who read newsgroups only, don't have an equal opportunity to respond. If they also subscribe to the mailing list, they have to wade through the same messages twice. Makes more sense to me if some of the high profile prolific proselytizers participate even more in the newgroups (and point people to the mailing lists as appropriate). My 2 cents. --bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 12:45:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17089 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:45:46 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA17083 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:45:38 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA24392 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:35:21 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA25740; 21 Apr 95 13:41:50 CDT (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA25737; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:41:50 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504211841.NAA25737@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: HP Laserjet 2p To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:41:49 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, uh@grep.cs.fsu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504202053.WAA08058@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 20, 95 10:53:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 395 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > ESC & k 2 G > > Or if you're using a networked printer, connect to "rp=text" instead of > > "rp=raw" and it'll do it magically. > Huh ? what command or config file does this "rp=text" syntax plug into ? /etc/printcap. The HP networked lasers these days support BSD print services and can just be added to /etc/printcap without worrying about whether it's a printer or a complete system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 13:08:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17422 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:08:06 -0700 Received: from pluto.ops.NeoSoft.com (root@pluto.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17415 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:08:00 -0700 Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@glenn-slip52.nmt.edu [129.138.5.152]) by pluto.ops.NeoSoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA16624; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:07:18 -0500 Received: (from smace@localhost) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) id OAA02872; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:07:09 -0600 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199504212007.OAA02872@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: Re: crypt folks? To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504211049.DAA08127@violet.berkeley.edu> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 03:49:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2004 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm not really sure how effective a encrypted telnet would be without kerberos... The key to the encrpytion would have to be passed in plaintext which kinda defeats the purpose... > Path: agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!rsanders > From: rsanders@interbev.mindspring.com (Robert Sanders) > Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc > Subject: Secure (encrypted) telnet > Date: 20 Apr 1995 13:36:41 GMT > Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. > Lines: 26 > Message-ID: <3n5o19$h32@nntp4.mindspring.com> > NNTP-Posting-Host: interbev.mindspring.com > > We're about to install a FreeBSD machine for network monitoring, so keep > in mind that although I am not yet a FreeBSD user, it's only a matter of > days. > > I've been trying to get FreeBSD's telnet (telnet, libtelnet, telnetd) to > compile with encryption and authentication enabled. I'd like to avoid > Kerberos if possible, so I enabled RSA and DES with the appropriate > defines. The trouble is that, when compiling libtelnet, the rsaencpwd.c > file used an include file that wasn't included in the source (cdc.h). > After disabling RSA encryption, libtelnet could compile but linking > telnet resulted in these errors: > > enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_new_random_key referenced from text segment > enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_ecb_encrypt referenced from text segment > enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_set_random_generator_seed referenced from text segment > enc_des.o: Undefined symbol _des_key_sched referenced from text segment > > Can anyone tell me whether FreeBSD's telnet works in encrypted mode, > and what pieces I have to grap for other operating systems if I wish > to use it? Obviously usr.bin/telnet, lib/libtelnet, and libexec/telnetd. > Where can I find the missing pieces for the RSA and DES components? > > I'm compiling this for Linux, AIX, BSDI, and (soon) FreeBSD. > > Many thanks, > -- Robert > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 13:13:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17526 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:13:43 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17516 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:13:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:13:40 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199504212013.NAA17516@freefall.cdrom.com> To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, paul@isl.cf.ac.uk Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Great idea. We definitely need a stronger usenet presence. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 13:15:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17640 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:15:49 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA17634 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:15:46 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA04669; Fri, 21 Apr 95 13:27:40 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504211927.AA04669@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 13:27:39 MDT Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504211832.AA13025@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 21, 95 01:32:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > # ctlfreebsd pause now > > ??? :-) Hope you don't expect a prompt back that would allow you to type # ctlfreebsd unpause now 8-) 8-) 8-). (I know, I know, it would beep, pause for a set time, then unpause). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 13:23:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17900 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:23:43 -0700 Received: from netcom7.netcom.com (bakul@netcom7.netcom.com [192.100.81.115]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17889 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:23:39 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id NAA28357; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:22:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199504212022.NAA28357@netcom7.netcom.com> To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 13:28:26 CDT." <9504211828.AA12999@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 13:22:00 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk First a correction: > > crowd). Another possibility is to use a BSD X-10 CP290, Darn fingers type BSD too damn easily! I meant BSR X-10 CP290 controller. > Needs: > 1) To be able to access the console of various machines, either locally or > remotely. Currently there are 6 machines to worry about. More soon. > 2) To be able to knock reset on arbitrary boxes. > 3) To be able to power up/down arbitrary pieces of equipment - some because > they lack accessible reset lines (Suns), some because I want them to go > down quick and not drain the UPS's during power failures, to allow key > systems to live longer.. ... > Now, if I build a few more neurons of intelligence into it: > a) it needs to verify that gaia is still functional. It can do this > by continuing to chat with gaia over the serial line at intervals. > If gaia fails, reset gaia (plus other "backoff" checks). > b) in power failure recovery situations, perhaps run some special > code to bring up gaia first, and then allow gaia to orchestrate > a network restart. > c) code all sorts of watchdog stuff into gaia such that gaia can > watch the other machines, and reset them via this controller. Sounds like a miniboard will do the job for you. Or any one of commercial 6811 based boards. The reason I suggest miniboard is because its design is free and as someone else has already done the hard part, you can focus on the fun part and get it done faster. [And if you are into LEGO you can build some neat intelligent mobile toys:-)] A miniboard is a 3.3"x1.86" size board, designed by Fred Martin of MIT Media Labs. It has 8 analog inputs, 8 digital inputs or outputs, several timer/counters, all broken out to convenience berg headers. It can drive up to 4 motors handling <= 600 mA & <= 36 volts. It has a RS232 port + can speak Motorala's SPI protocol (if you want to hook up a bunch of them together). Typically it has a 2K EEPROM + 256 bytes of RAM. It runs off a 6 to 36 Volt power supply. You can download new code to it via the serial line. For writing the program you can use a free gcc port (but requires some configuring) or one of two very nice but inexpensive C compilers. 2Kbytes is *plenty* of space for this sort of thing. If I were doing this, I'd electrically isolate the MB -- probably use relays for reseting and power cycling. Analog inputs can be used, e.g., to check if the machines are overheating (due to a faulty fan). They may even be usable for monitoring the power line and splicing in your 12VDC to 110VAC converter on the fly in case of a failure but that is probably a nontrivial design [though very tempting to try....] By using some decoding you can control many more than 8 outputs. Miniboard kits are around $50, if you can become part of a group buy. --bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 13:26:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17986 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:26:02 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17978 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:25:59 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA20011; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:19:44 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504212019.NAA20011@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Returned mail: Re: Booting from second hard drive (SCSI) problems (Again!!) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504211448.AAA23965@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 22, 95 00:48:35 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 903 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk you are right I appologise and will fix the code.. julian > > >> >#ifdef BOOT_HD > >> > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 1); /* a good first bet */ > >> >#else > >> > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* a good first bet */ > >> >#endif > >> > >> Shouldn't this be > >> > >> >#ifdef BOOT_HD > >> > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 1 : 2); /* a bad first bet */ > >> >#else > >> > maj = (drive&0x80 ? 0 : 2); /* another bad first bet */ > >> >#endif > >> > >> ? > >NO, I had it correct.. > >major 0 if off a floppy and major 1 if not.. > > The above gives major 0 if off a hard disk and major 1 if off a floppy > (the 0x80 bit is for hard disks). > > >major 1 is a 'pseudo' mojor which is later changed to 2 or 4 > >depending on whether it's scsi > > Actually, major 1 is later changed to 0 or 4 (2 is the floppy major). > > Bruce > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 13:41:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA18738 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:41:57 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA18730 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:41:48 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA09380; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:38:54 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504212038.NAA09380@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, paul@isl.cf.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <199504212013.NAA17516@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 21, 95 01:13:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 438 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Great idea. We definitely need a stronger usenet presence. One way gating is a bad idea, people would follow up to some posting from the mailling list and it would never get to the original poster. This causes disjoint conversations that can confuse a situation very badly! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 13:54:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA19412 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:54:55 -0700 Received: from bridge2.NSD.3Com.COM (bridge2.NSD.3Com.COM [129.213.128.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA19404 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:54:47 -0700 Received: from orodruin.NSD.3Com.COM by bridge2.NSD.3Com.COM with SMTP id AA21370 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4nsd for ); Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:54:34 -0700 Received: by orodruin.NSD.3Com.COM id AA10671 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4-910730); Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:55:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:55:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199504212055.AA10671@orodruin.NSD.3Com.COM> From: Scott Johnson To: Tom Gray - DCA Cc: didier@aida.remcomp.fr (Didier Derny), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: uucp / serial port / modem problem References: <199503230607.WAA11246@coyote.rain.org> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tom Gray writes: didier> I recently replaced my old sportster 14400 by a brand didier> new sportser 28800. Every thing worked fine with my didier> old modem but with the new modem I'n not able to didier> transfer more than 400kb before the connection hangs. dcasba> You should check the supervisor revision date of your dcasba> sportster and possibly apply with U.S. Robotics for an dcasba> upgrade. You can get the supervisor ROM revision date dcasba> by issuing ATI7 to the modem. There is a revision date dcasba> of august of last year that you should be wary of. If dcasba> memory, serves an up-to-date ROM will reveal a date dcasba> from Oct. of last year. I think it's December now, and it still doesn't fix all the bugs. I returned mine, and will stick with 14.4 for another year or so, so they can whack out the last bugs. I'm not willing to pay USR more money to fix their bugs. (I was told the upgrade was $35, is this true?) --srj What is a "free" gift ? Aren't all gifts free? o_O --unknown =( ) = ----------------------------------------------------------- U Ack! Scott Johnson 3Com Corporation srj@3com.com 408-764-6248 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 14:45:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA21446 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:45:25 -0700 Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA21437 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:45:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199504212145.OAA21437@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: german beer... To: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu (Steven G Kargl) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504210031.RAA07361@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> from "Steven G Kargl" at Apr 20, 95 05:31:12 pm From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1210 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steven G Kargl writes: > > According to J Wunsch: > > > > As Don Yuniskis wrote: > > > > > > > Weissbier, Weissbier ! (better known as Weizen in the North of Germany, > > > > those Nordlichter just don't have a clue :) Otherwise, I won't come. > > > > > > Actually, the reference was intended to Augustiner Brau, right joerg? :> > > > > Don, there's so many good beer here in germany, that the brand doesn't > > matter too much. Since i don't live in Bayern, i don't prefer > > Augustiner Bräu that much - but who cares? For you americans, i guess > > almost every german beer might be a good beer. :-) > > > > You need to visit the Pacific Northwest, if you want truly great American > beer. So many to choose from, so little time to sample. (No Rainer lite > doen't count!) I _never_ seen _good_ American beer. One thing I know for sure - if something has label "light" - it's not for drinking or smoking :-) > -- > Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | > Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | > Univ. of Washington |---------------------| > 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | > Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| > -- dima P.S. As for me, I prefere Guinness. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 15:09:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22066 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:09:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22059 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:09:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter Dufault cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 22:24:06 EDT." <199504210224.WAA15141@hda.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:09:13 -0700 Message-ID: <22058.798502153@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I gave you my model: Two releases per year, possibly two bug fix > releases per year, a plea not to push stuff out in a panic, and a new > request which is to keep the volunteers appraised of what is going on. No disrespect intended, but such a model I could have gotten by looking at the first two pages of a DEC internal project memo. These are are good general points, granted, but they don't quite provide the level of detail I'm looking for. People genuinely interested in helping me to hash out the kind of operations document I have in mind, contact me via private email. I'll send you some of my preliminary notes. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 15:12:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22170 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:12:45 -0700 Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22160 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:12:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199504212212.PAA22160@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: Beer To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de In-Reply-To: <3940.798454595@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 01:56:35 am From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 526 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > This is an interesting idea. Anyone else in the Bay Area want to work > on scheduling this? If we do it in the next week, David Greenman will > also be able to come since he flew down here last night to work on > wcarchive. Gary, Poul-Henning, Justin, Satoshi and Jack are already > here.. That's at least 6 core members in the bay area and an unknown > number of long-time -hackers alumnus.. Good idea. I'm in Mtn. View, so it's not so far from other folks. > > Jordan > -- dima From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 15:17:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22402 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:17:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22393 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:17:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Upgrade paths In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 08:19:33 MDT." <199504211419.IAA13050@rover.village.org> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:17:38 -0700 Message-ID: <22392.798502658@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In the past there has been a definite lack of an upgrade path for > FreeBSD (you have basically had to reinstall). Will there be time for > sufficent upgrade tools to be written before the deadline? I don't know. This all depends on the 3-4 people who stepped forward and promised to be working on various solutions to the upgrade problem in time for 2.1. :-( For 2.0.5, my general plan was (if no one else stepped forward with something better) to simply document the steps to follow _very carefully_, culling details out of the 20 or so email messages I've received from people detailing their own upgrade procedures. Not the best, but a heck of a lot better than nothing! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 15:22:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22651 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:22:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22644 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:22:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 09:30:42 CDT." <199504211430.JAA29787@anvil.appsmiths.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:22:04 -0700 Message-ID: <22643.798502924@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a strange suggestion. How about a bake-off? The next release of FreeBSD gets done in parallel by multiple teams. Whomever has the best release at the end, as judged by an impartial panel of BETA testers, gets to be the "official" one. I'm not actually joking. If 2-3 teams stepped forward, I'd more than happily fire the starting gun! God only knows, our own release strategy has certainly sucked. Not tremendously surprising when you stop to consider that FreeBSD has always had all the people who TRULY HATE doing releases doing the releases! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 15:44:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA23346 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:44:38 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA23338 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:44:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:39:50 MDT." <9504211639.AA03566@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:44:36 -0700 Message-ID: <23337.798504276@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > With respect, S^3 is something that students fall prey to. You > might argue that companies do so as well; I susbmit that these > are not successful companies. Just to note for the record: I've seen S^3 in both old and new companies, good ones and bad ones, domestic and foreign ones. I've seen it happen with young engineering pups fresh out of college and I've seen it happen with old and hairy development groups who really should have known better. You're discounting the second-order effects that set in when even the most seasoned and successful group is doing a project it _really feels strongly about_. Some groups successfully combat the suction and go on, and some fall willing prey to it. It all depends on the strength of the attraction and how many truly uninteresting projects preceeded it. It's definitely overly simplistic to say that it's something only students suffer from! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 15:46:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA23402 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:46:10 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA23396 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:46:07 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA03631 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:45:28 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id AAA13823 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:45:28 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504212245.AAA13823@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: german beer... To: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:45:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504212145.OAA21437@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Dima Ruban" at Apr 21, 95 02:45:24 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 238 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > P.S. As for me, I prefere Guinness. I'm with you on this one, it is my favorite beer... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 15:52:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA23546 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:52:14 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA23537 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:51:57 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id QAA13808; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:55:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:55:45 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504212255.QAA13808@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley." (Apr 21, 3:22pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Interim 2.0.X release ( was Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley.) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The next release of FreeBSD gets done in parallel by multiple teams. > Whomever has the best release at the end, as judged by an impartial > panel of BETA testers, gets to be the "official" one. > > I'm not actually joking. If 2-3 teams stepped forward, I'd more than > happily fire the starting gun! *laugh* Jordan's been trying to get other folks to step up to the plate and fixup the entire release mechanism, so he's trying all sorts of ways to get folks to help. If the direct approach doesn't work, let's try the indirect approach and make it a challenge. :-) I hope we find some victims^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hvolunteers to do it though.... Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 16:00:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23736 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:00:04 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA23699 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:59:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA08058; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:53:40 +0200 Message-Id: <199504202053.WAA08058@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter da Silva cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, uh@grep.cs.fsu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HP Laserjet 2p In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 1995 01:44:41 +0200." <199504182344.SAA28543@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:53:40 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > ESC & k 2 G > Or if you're using a networked printer, connect to "rp=text" instead of > "rp=raw" and it'll do it magically. Huh ? what command or config file does this "rp=text" syntax plug into ? ESC & k 2 G (with no spaces) will work with CPM or SCO (even ;-) , just so long as there's an HP PCL 5 device the other end (such as an HP 2 or 3 [optional P] laser. Julian S. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 16:06:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23957 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:06:09 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA23705 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:59:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08120; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:24:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199504202124.XAA08120@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:30:55 +0200." <199504190830.SAA28041@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 23:24:18 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I personally have always prefered the flat scheme of /dev > I like it fairly flat. Suggestion: While deciding, assume sometime later you'll come across a half dead singler user system, with no mouse, & no X-11, & you'll be poking about in /dev, perhaps over a telnet, or a 24x80 old glass tty (or a pc running dos-kermit etc) ..... consider how much info you'll be able to see in a worst case 24x80 window .... & just to complete the Armageddon scenario ... assume /usr/bin/more is unmounted (eg corrupt /usr fs), & assume Control-S flow control is broken somewhere. When up multiuser, with /usr/bin/make & /usr/bin/gcc & /usr/bin/gdb & /usr/bin/vi & /usr/X11R6/bin/X & all the other `luxury' tools from /usr, `flat' or `deep' are both usable, but directories with _lots_ of stuff in can be a pain for 24x80 screens. Not that I'm any fan of deep nested dev dirs, just that I Know I'll be back in /dev sometime on a well broken box, in 24x80 mode. Julian S. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 16:25:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA24747 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:25:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA24741 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:25:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:25:28 -0700 Message-ID: <24740.798506728@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The subject says it all.. I've long been bothered by bmake's inability to programmatically unset a variable. Assuming that nobody feels it to be too evil a hack to live, are there any objections to using the keyword `.undef'? Yes, it will make us non-standard, but we're essentially ALREADY non-standard due to having a build system from hell that nobody else is going to adopt without taking our make, too. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 16:42:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA24940 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:42:01 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA24933 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:41:57 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA04006 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 01:41:47 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id BAA14446 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 01:41:46 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504212341.BAA14446@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: crypt folks? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 01:41:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: rsanders@interbev.mindspring.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504211852.UAA13550@grunt.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Apr 21, 95 08:52:21 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 561 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If anyone in the free world ;-) has done this, please let me know. I am > looking after the South African site, and in between a _hectic_ work > schedule, I try to collect bits of LEGAL crypt code. > > (LEGAL = "won't get some poor Yank in the shit") ;-) :-) :-) There is an encrypting telnet on ftp.funet.fi which use Secure RPC auth. to avoid Kerberos' requirement. /pub/security/telnet if I remember well. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 16:45:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25032 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:45:42 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25026 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:45:37 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id RAA14054; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:49:40 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:49:40 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504212349.RAA14054@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make?" (Apr 21, 4:25pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've long been bothered by bmake's inability to programmatically unset > a variable. Assuming that nobody feels it to be too evil a hack to > live, are there any objections to using the keyword `.undef'? I'm kind of partial to '.undefine' myself, but I think the functionality is a good addition to the utility. Too bad we couldn't find a way similar to how something is defined to undefine it. FOO= 1 FOO= undefined Hmm, that might work, but would make 'undefined' a reserved word which is IMHO a bad thing. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 16:57:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25235 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:57:32 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25228 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:57:29 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (4.1/WDL-4.2) id AA16657; Fri, 21 Apr 95 16:56:55 PDT Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA19477; Fri, 21 Apr 95 19:57:52 EDT Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:57:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: _ANSI_SOURCE... who defines this puppy Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to get pthreads to build on 2.0R. I have had a number of problems, but this last one led me down a rat hole that seems to go beyond pthreads. In one source file was : #if !defined(_ANSI_SOURCE) #define CLK_TCK 100 #endif /* not ANSI */ This resulted in redefinition of the value in . So I started to try to hunt down who defines _ANSI_SOURCE. I found it referenced numerous times in places in the standard includes. But I can't find anywhere that it is defined. The best gcc does is: <~/code>> cc -E -dM -ansi foo.c #define __STRICT_ANSI__ 1 #define __FreeBSD__ 2 #define __i386__ 1 #define __i386 1 #define __GNUC_MINOR__ 6 #define __unix 1 #define __unix__ 1 #define __GNUC__ 2 So is this the programmers responsibility to define? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 16:57:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25255 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:57:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25248 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:57:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 17:49:40 MDT." <199504212349.RAA14054@trout.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:57:52 -0700 Message-ID: <25246.798508672@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FOO= 1 > > FOO= undefined > > Hmm, that might work, but would make 'undefined' a reserved word which is IMH O > a bad thing. Yes.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 17:20:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26024 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:20:27 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA26018 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:20:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199504220020.RAA26018@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA11701; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:20:21 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Subject: Compaq Prolinea? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:20:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 235 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone out there in netland have any experience with the Compaq Prolinea series for FreeBSD? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 17:33:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26446 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:33:34 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26440 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:33:33 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id RAA02816; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:33:32 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:33:32 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199504220033.RAA02816@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: yeah, what is the deal with this? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sojourn.com!menzo!lloth From: lloth@menzo.sojourn.com (Kris Kortright) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Dynamic IP addressing in SLIP Date: 20 Apr 1995 19:25:25 GMT Organization: Sojourn Systems Ltd. Lansing,MI (USA) Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3n6cf5$q51@cthia.sojourn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: menzo.sojourn.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Can Free BSD do dynamic IP addressing? I have a customer that needs to be able to handle dynamic IP addressing in order to get on-line. Is this possible? Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kristopher Scott Kortright * President, Sojourn Systems Ltd. Co-Owner of Sojourn DikuMud as Lloth (Forger) - sojourn.com 9999 Email Address: lloth@sojourn.com, root@sojourn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "That which does not kill us, makes us stronger..." Friedrich Nietzsche From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 17:43:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26576 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:43:03 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA26569 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:43:01 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06063; Fri, 21 Apr 95 18:36:37 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504220036.AA06063@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 18:36:36 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <23337.798504276@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 03:44:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > With respect, S^3 is something that students fall prey to. You > > might argue that companies do so as well; I susbmit that these > > are not successful companies. [ ... I've seen S^3 at it's evil worst ... ] I cheated. By definition, a company that has fallen victim to S^3 will not be successful. If it is, then it hasn't been a victim. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 17:46:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26644 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:46:50 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA26637 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:46:45 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06037; Fri, 21 Apr 95 18:32:34 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504220032.AA06037@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 18:32:33 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504202124.XAA08120@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 20, 95 11:24:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ] Suggestion: While deciding, assume sometime later you'll come across a half ] dead singler user system, with no mouse, & no X-11, & you'll be poking about ] in /dev, perhaps over a telnet, or a 24x80 old glass tty (or a pc running ] dos-kermit etc) ..... consider how much info you'll be able to see in a ] worst case 24x80 window .... & just to complete the Armageddon scenario ] ... assume /usr/bin/more is unmounted (eg corrupt /usr fs), ] & assume Control-S flow control is broken somewhere. # mor() { > while true > do > for i in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 > do > if read x > then > echo $x > else > exit 0 > fi > done > echo "--MORE--" > read x < /dev/tty > done >} # els() { > for i in * > do > echo $i > done >} # els | mor Using /proc (which, like /dev, should be a mandatorily mounted non-optional file system), you can even write 'ps'. Old long hair story: I once installed an Ultrix box with nothing but a shell and dd to rewrite the install script to get myself a non-supported disk type in /etc/disktab. By default, Ultrix will only install to a small set of DEC supported drives. I saved my changes between boots by writing them to the raw disk and splitting them back apart with dd on each reboot until the install worked. Where there is a will, there is a way. 8-). ] Not that I'm any fan of deep nested dev dirs, just that I Know I'll be back ] in /dev sometime on a well broken box, in 24x80 mode. I hope you'll think of "mor" and remember me fondly. 8^). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 17:59:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27009 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:59:10 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27003 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:59:09 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA20908; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:59:05 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504220059.RAA20908@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <23337.798504276@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 03:44:36 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 640 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > With respect, S^3 is something that students fall prey to. You > > might argue that companies do so as well; I susbmit that these > > are not successful companies. > > Just to note for the record: I've seen S^3 in both old and new > companies, good ones and bad ones, domestic and foreign ones. I've I agree, based on the above statement we can conclude that Terry must be from a different planet. Think about, OS/2 MCA AS/400 Win/NT Win/95 -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 18:07:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27250 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:07:03 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27241 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:07:02 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA20941; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:06:59 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504220106.SAA20941@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504220036.AA06063@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 21, 95 06:36:36 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 659 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > With respect, S^3 is something that students fall prey to. You > > > might argue that companies do so as well; I susbmit that these > > > are not successful companies. > > [ ... I've seen S^3 at it's evil worst ... ] > > I cheated. By definition, a company that has fallen victim to S^3 > will not be successful. If it is, then it hasn't been a victim. We're clearly inside the 20% zone where Terry is completely and utterly off the mark. IBM "not successful" ???? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 18:34:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27909 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:34:17 -0700 Received: from nm0039.nmso.nm.blm.gov (nm0024.nmso.nm.blm.gov [158.68.160.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA27903 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:34:11 -0700 Received: by nm0039.nmso.nm.blm.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA19389; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:34:42 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:34:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Olsen Reply-To: colsen@pdsinc.com To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Compaq Prolinea? In-Reply-To: <199504220020.RAA26018@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Charles Henrich wrote: > Does anyone out there in netland have any experience with the Compaq Prolinea > series for FreeBSD? > > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu > > http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ > I have been running 2.1-current on a prolinea MT 4/66. It runs pretty well. We just added 16meg of memory to bring th total to 32meg. DOS finds the memory fine but FreeBSD only finds 16Meg. But other than that everything else runs find. ------------------------------ | Christopher Bryan Olsen | | Productive Data Systems | | colsen@pdsinc.com | | (505) 438-7812 | ------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 18:34:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27924 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:34:36 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27917 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:34:33 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id VAA02449; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:31:50 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504220131.VAA02449@hda.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504211927.AA04669@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 21, 95 01:27:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 532 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > # ctlfreebsd pause now > > > > ??? :-) > > Hope you don't expect a prompt back that would allow you to type > > # ctlfreebsd unpause now > > 8-) 8-) 8-). > > (I know, I know, it would beep, pause for a set time, then unpause). I've had it running here all night. That is exactly what it does, but it beeps when it unpauses. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 19:17:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA28972 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:17:13 -0700 Received: from pluto.ops.NeoSoft.com (root@pluto.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA28964 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:17:06 -0700 Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@glenn-slip54.nmt.edu [129.138.5.154]) by pluto.ops.NeoSoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id VAA18171 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:17:03 -0500 Received: (from smace@localhost) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) id UAA04161 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:16:53 -0600 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199504220216.UAA04161@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: 2.x and large memory configs To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:16:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 113 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone used FreeBSD 2 (or the snaps) with large mem configs like around 128megs? (EISA or PCI bus). Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 19:17:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA28989 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:17:57 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA28976 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:17:47 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA00576; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:15:12 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504220215.TAA00576@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <24740.798506728@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 04:25:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 818 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The subject says it all.. > > I've long been bothered by bmake's inability to programmatically unset > a variable. Assuming that nobody feels it to be too evil a hack to > live, are there any objections to using the keyword `.undef'? > > Yes, it will make us non-standard, but we're essentially ALREADY > non-standard due to having a build system from hell that nobody else > is going to adopt without taking our make, too. It sure would help if you read psd:12 from your 4.4 manual set if your going to do much more with Make. On page 12-7 you will see #undef variable described. Note that our make uses .undef, and I have tested it, and it works. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 19:24:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29073 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:24:40 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA29066 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:24:34 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14535(5)>; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:23:57 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:23:46 -0700 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/19/95 To: Paul Richards cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers mailing list) Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 12:10:46 PDT." <199504211910.UAA11985@isl.cf.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:23:45 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr21.192346pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504211910.UAA11985@isl.cf.ac.uk> you write: >I'm only talking about hackers mail going to the newsgroup and > not the other way around Then I vote nay. One-way newsgroup gateways are counterintuitive -- if you see an article in netnews, and you reply to it, you expect that the person who wrote the original is going to see your response. I suspect that all that you will accomplish would be pissing off the people who keep posting questions to netnews but everyone ignores them... Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 19:49:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29906 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:49:09 -0700 Received: from physics.su.oz.au (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA29900 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:49:00 -0700 Received: by physics.su.oz.au id AA17193 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@FreeBSD.org); Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:48:43 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199504220248.AA17193@physics.su.oz.au> Subject: Re: wchar_t definition... To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:48:42 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504211445.QAA21595@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Apr 21, 95 04:45:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1268 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >This was on snap950322 with XFree86-3.1. > >While compiling the stock xdvi (xdvk-1.18f) I got the following errors: > >In file included from xdvi.h:22, > from config.h:43, > from xdvi.c:86: >/usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h:74: conflicting types for `wchar_t' >/usr/include/stdlib.h:50: previous declaration of `wchar_t' Thas issue has come up before. As I said then, wchar_t is only defined in Xlib.h when X_WCHAR is defined (when X_WCHAR isn't defined, is included to get the wchar_t definition), and that will only get defined if X_NOT_STDC_ENV is defined. This is not defined by default for FreeBSD, so find out where it is getting defined and fix that. >In file included from xdvi.h:24, > from config.h:43, > from xdvi.c:86: >/usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xos.h:107: conflicting types for `sys_errlist' >/usr/include/stdio.h:244: previous declaration of `sys_errlist' >*** Error code 1 This is also because X_NOT_STDC_ENV is somehow incorrectly being defined. >and so on. Apart the obvious thing (fix the application), should we fix >the (XFree) header files so that they are consistent with ours ? I don't believe that there is anything to fix in this respect in the X11R6 headers. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 20:13:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA00809 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:13:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA00796 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:13:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: lloth@menzo.sojourn.com Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 17:33:32 PDT." <199504220033.RAA02816@violet.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:13:14 -0700 Message-ID: <795.798520394@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504220033.RAA02816@violet.berkeley.edu>, Jordan K. Hubbard write s: > Can Free BSD do dynamic IP addressing? I have a customer that needs to be >able to handle dynamic IP addressing in order to get on-line. Is this possible >? Using PPP it is relatively easy if you use ijppp (see `man ppp'). Normal PPP could also do it probably. It's nearly impossible with slip as there is no negotiation between the two computers with SLIP. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 20:19:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01105 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:19:23 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA01090 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:19:21 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06440; Fri, 21 Apr 95 21:12:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504220312.AA06440@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 21:12:56 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504220106.SAA20941@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 21, 95 06:06:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I cheated. By definition, a company that has fallen victim to S^3 > > will not be successful. If it is, then it hasn't been a victim. > > We're clearly inside the 20% zone where Terry is completely and utterly > off the mark. > > IBM "not successful" ???? Are you claiming that they would have been equally or less successful for having recognized and elimited S^3 by using competent release engineering practices? Or are you claiming "any profitability over 0%" as "successful enough"? Companies that _allow_ themselves to fall victim to S^3 are "*lucky* if they survive", not "*successful* if they survive". The difference (in software) between not being hit by S^3 and being clobbered over the head by it is the difference between committed, competent release engineering that has been empowered to do their jobs vs. a failure in commitment, competence, or empowerment that should have been there but wasn't. Products that fall victim to S^3 deserve to die. IBM (or any company) surviving an S^3 crisis is either over-capitolized (and therefore not hitting their full profit potential) or otherwise independent of the failing product for their income (survival). Man, I feel like the only person outside of Japan who has read Demming. 8^). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 20:29:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01233 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:29:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA01226 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:29:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 19:15:11 PDT." <199504220215.TAA00576@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:29:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1225.798521355@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It sure would help if you read psd:12 from your 4.4 manual set if > your going to do much more with Make. On page 12-7 you will see > #undef variable described. > > Note that our make uses .undef, and I have tested it, and it works. Aiee! So much for making totally redundant proposals! :-( Thanks, I'll check it out. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 20:30:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01277 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:30:01 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01263 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:29:52 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA06522; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:27:45 +1000 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:27:45 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504220327.NAA06522@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, rpt@miles.sso.loral.com Subject: Re: _ANSI_SOURCE... who defines this puppy Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I am trying to get pthreads to build on 2.0R. I have had a number of >problems, but this last one led me down a rat hole that seems to go >beyond pthreads. In one source file was : > #if !defined(_ANSI_SOURCE) > #define CLK_TCK 100 > #endif /* not ANSI */ This is bogus. CLK_TCK is an (obsolescent) POSIX feature. It has nothing to do with ANSI C, and of course applications and libraries shouldn't declare it directly, because it may be (and is in FreeBSD) different from what the application might expect. >This resulted in redefinition of the value in . >So I started to try to hunt down who defines _ANSI_SOURCE. I found it >referenced numerous times in places in the standard includes. But I >can't find anywhere that it is defined. The best gcc does is: ><~/code>> cc -E -dM -ansi foo.c >#define __STRICT_ANSI__ 1 >... >So is this the programmers responsibility to define? Yes. You normally wouldn't want to define it. In FreeBSD, it is supposed to restrict what the ANSI headers declare to only those things that are specified in the standard. Very few things can be compiled using only features that are specified in the standard! __STRICT_ANSI__ is what gcc declares to indicate that the compiler is enforcing strict ANSI C syntax. It is not related to restricting or extending the declarations in the headers. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 20:30:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01357 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:30:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA01349 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:30:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Scott Mace cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 2.x and large memory configs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 20:16:53 MDT." <199504220216.UAA04161@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:30:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1348.798521454@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone used FreeBSD 2 (or the snaps) with large mem configs like > around 128megs? (EISA or PCI bus). > > Scott Ask this question again in about 2-3 days.. ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 20:32:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01402 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:32:48 -0700 Received: from psycfrnd.interaccess.com (psycfrnd.interaccess.com [198.80.0.26]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01395 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:32:46 -0700 Received: (joeg@localhost) by psycfrnd.interaccess.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id WAA10435; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:30:13 -0500 From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199504220330.WAA10435@psycfrnd.interaccess.com> Subject: Re: Release stability (fwd) To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:30:13 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joeg@truenorth.org In-Reply-To: <199504211928.NAA13261@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 21, 95 01:28:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1927 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> > > In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed >> > > many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There >> > > was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. > >> > Yes, I think that a new/stable/fast cycle of 3 has a lot to be said >> > for it. What would people say to us going to the following numbering >> > scheme in support of this? >> > >> > .<0,1,2[,3..]>[.] >> >> This is a very nice idea but it's going to take a lot of organisation on >> our part.... >> We don't currently have people interested in >> doing that sort of thing, everyone wants to play with the new toys. > >Actually, I'd be interested in doing such a thing except that I wouldn't >have the time to do it right. I think you could find some folks who'd >be willing to put the time in, but the problem is more of a technical >problem. > >The people who are qualified to accept/reject kernel patches don't have >the time to check the patches out. This was obvious in the 1.X -> 2.X >phase when folks posted patches. David didn't have the time to >back-port patches he had made to the new code which existed in the >previous code. > >I'm afraid this would be the same problem we're facing now. > I agree that the new/stable/fast method has a lot to offer. But there are a number of implicit assumptions in this method. a) that there are a good number of people working on this and b) that these people are divided up into groups, each working on a "phase". I don't think we have the man power to do this right particulary if we are doing each phase in less than 6 months. I suspect that the reason CSRG went with and stuck with the even/odd method is limited resources. My $0.02. Do with this as you wish. Josef -- Josef Grosch | joeg@truenorth.org | "Laugh while you can, monkey boy." finger for my | - Buckaroo Banzai - public PGP key | From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 20:39:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01596 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:39:48 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01590 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:39:47 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA21879; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:39:45 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504220339.UAA21879@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504220312.AA06440@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 21, 95 09:12:56 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 760 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I cheated. By definition, a company that has fallen victim to S^3 > > > will not be successful. If it is, then it hasn't been a victim. > > > > We're clearly inside the 20% zone where Terry is completely and utterly > > off the mark. > > > > IBM "not successful" ???? > > Companies that _allow_ themselves to fall victim to S^3 are "*lucky* if > they survive", not "*successful* if they survive". > > Products that fall victim to S^3 deserve to die. > > Man, I feel like the only person outside of Japan who has read Demming. > Terry IS from another planet ! :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 20:56:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA02190 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:56:42 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA02180 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:56:41 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:56:41 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199504220356.UAA02180@freefall.cdrom.com> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It sure would help if you read psd:12 from your 4.4 manual set if your going to do much more with Make. On page 12-7 you will see #undef variable described. Note that our make uses .undef, and I have tested it, and it works. Why do we use . instead of #? I've installed pmake on my system, but it's not a straight drop-in replacement for make due to this and other differences. Jeffrey From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 21:09:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA05439 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:09:35 -0700 Received: from relay1.UU.NET (relay1.UU.NET [192.48.96.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA05433 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:09:32 -0700 Received: from ast.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQymmy04696; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:09:28 -0400 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA21113 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for uunet!FreeBSD.org!hackers); Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:13:41 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Fri, 21 Apr 95 23:05 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0s2V65-0004vtC; Fri, 21 Apr 95 21:39 CDT Message-Id: Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 21:39 CDT To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Fri Apr 21 1995, 21:39:00 CDT Subject: Release stability and timing Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [0]I don't know who said this but it doesn't matter: (just a lead-in) [0] [0]In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed [0]many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There [0]was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. They also used Major number, Minor Letter, and Edit numbers for everything, including major release titles. So you had stuff like Release 3(1234) (nearest translation 03.00.1234) which was the major release 3. Then shortly would come Release 3A(1345) (nearest translation 03.01.1345), which was supposed to be a collection of minor fixes but no major structural changes. I have always felt that Major release numbers for an operating system should be incremented if: 1. Sysadmins have to reformat or build new filesystems to use it. This should be because of a significant improvement in architecture, not because someone didn't want to keep existing formats in place or some other unnecessary enhancement, such as longer volume ID strings. If you changed the format of tar, cpio or other backup media, that would get you a Major release rating. OR 2. Sysadmins have to recompile or relink existing software to get it to work with major system functions (such as password database, libc, time management, etc). Having to recompile the fortune or hunt program doesn't count as a critical function. OR 3. Some vast collection of new hardware is supported. Supporting last years tape drive in a brighter orange cabinet doesn't count. Adding support for Firewire peripherals or nine varieties of ISDN and DSU interfaces from six vendors might be good enough for a major release if there were a lot of people who had them or would instantly buy them. Common sense check: how many benefit vs the pain and expense of the upgrade? OR 4. Some major processing facility or facilities is added to the system (in the operating system or provided applications/utilities) that someone would be willing to upgrade for. (Stability is assumed and should not be listed as an significant excuse for any major release.) In our case, say the ability to execute SCO binaries, Windows binaries or Linux binaries would certainly qualify. Rewriting CRON to have a graphical interface (as an example) would not count as a reason for a major release. OR 5. You have several minor releases out since the last major release and it is becoming a hassle for everyone to manage layering stuff. This rule actually ensures that if the product is alive and evolving, you will get major releases from time to time even as the system matures and major changes hopefully decline. Of these five items, the #3 and #4 are weaker and by themselves really shouldn't qualify a major revision number. #3 and #4 together or either #3 or #4 with one of the other conditions is good enough for a major release. Minor revision numbers are used to distribute collections of fixes, small enhancements, forgotten man pages and utilities, performance improvements, added support for the one or two peripherals (not a full subsystem like SCSI), etc. These are turned out at either regular intervals, or in response to some threshold. This threshold can be: the customer support pain threshold (such as the the "we can get all these people off our backs with this" release), or the visibility/competitive threshold (the "why are we letting this neat stuff just sit when people could be using it and annoying the competition" reason). The second threshold is constantly encouraged by the marketing side of things so always set that threshold higher than the prior to avoid feeble releases that make it look like interest in your product is declining. By using letters for the minor field, they purposely limited themselves on how far they could go without a major relase, but I only know of one major product (from DEC) that went to "E" before they did a major release. Effectively that would be six minor releases between major releases, which in the DEC install scheme they provided fifteen years ago was a pretty big pain. (Using letters also helped cut down on confusion caused by version ID dyslexia.) Finally, Edit increments (in DEC/ANSIese the number in the parens, in the Microsoft/Letni world the nn.nn.XX part of the version number), is used to indicate this is newer than the last version and something is different. That's all. Our nearest equivalent would be somewhere between -current and SNAPs, probably closer to SNAPs in structuring. Released as regularly as practical, and usually only of interest to those people with a specific issue. The vendor may not even offer the complete OS at a given edit level, just certain chunks of the system. So in our scheme, maybe the ports tree would have more edits than the sys tree, etc. These things probably would be available only via online rather than on stamped media. Also, the edit numbers never went back to zero; they just keep climbing, making some types of source control easier. DEC used Octal for edit numbers, but ANSI doesn't require that. I'd like to see FreeBSD try to move in the direction of setting better goals for the next major (and less major) releases, regardless of whether we use Microsoft or ANSI version stamps. (I think Microsoft has won the version stamp format war.) I think this type of release goal outline would take some of the pressure off and eliminate throwing every inanimate object in sight into the major releases at the last minute. By agreeing early (like shortly after the last major release) as to what the major components of a major release are going to be and holding the line to that set of major changes, it really helps hold the line on delivery scheduled. It may even allow key people to double-up on certain large projects, rather than each try to push his pet project thru in parallel. To a lessor extent you do the same thing with smaller pieces of the system (auxillary apps, new drivers, improvements, major corrections, etc), possibly having three or four milestones between releases for submission of those items. If something misses two milestones between major releases, you relax and say that item isn't going to be part of the next major release unless there is tons of agreement to do otherwise. On the other hand, something major that didn't make the goal list for the next major release but gets finished early and proves itself in minor releases may gain a seat in the next release if there is agreement. There is no need to treat this as a Yes-No situation. Now if you had asked me two weeks ago (early to mid April), I would say that anything that wasn't in the SNAPs on that day that is going to require the user to make new filesystems, cause any existing compiled binaries to not work, or require lots of modules to be reworked (even slightly) should be held off for the next major or minor relase, say 2.1.>0 or even 2.2.0. But since then it was decided to cut a minor release first so that we could continue to stuff big items into 2.1, and delay 2.1 until late summer. I dunno, I think bugs aside the SNAPs have enough big features to be popular as they stand now. It would be better to put any other big stuff on hold and focus on bug fixes. Some serious consideration should really be placed on whether to put 2.1 off so long for the sake of a few big and possibly risky items. Geez, the Linux camp will release two discs in that amount of time, not including the variants: Linux-on-a-stick, Linux-in-a-bag, etc. It seems that we may be beyond Creeping Elegance and be up near Lunging Elegance. Hey, I love having tons of features and a feature bullet list that wraps all the way around the box, but if all the features have got bugs and the delivery schedule starts looking like one from Microsoft, was the time spent well and will they wait? On another subject, and not being in California may have something to do with this, I always felt blind regarding the SNAP schedules. Unlike every other software project I was ever involved with, I have never known when the door is going to close on submissions so that a SNAP can emerge later. If even a tentative date for the next snap was announced several days in advance and roughly when the snap AFTER the next one might occur, it would help avoid the rush we see now. You could even close the door at the announced time for small and minor submissions and hold off building the SNAP if some major fix or other important piece was to arrive shortly. For example, I happened to see a reply to someone else that SNAP-0412 was appearing at any minute. It was posted on 0413. Despite this, I rushed to try to get some stuff in for that SNAP, not knowing if it was the one that would become 2.1. Turns out it didn't, but that information just isn't making it out and it really should. Since then I have discovered I can tell when a SNAP is in the making by just looking the volume of the cvs mail for a given day. Its sorta like the Washington press watching the pizza places around the White House to discover when something is going on. :-) I would also suggest that SNAPs never be closer together than ten to 14 days. It's all just a thought from someone who has managed a few UNIX releases. (No, don't ask.) :-( Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Fastest Route)| demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"A what?" ...decvax!fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 21:12:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA05485 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:12:31 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA05475 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:12:25 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA28997 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:47:33 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA06364; 21 Apr 95 22:39:21 CDT (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA06361; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:39:20 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504220339.WAA06361@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:39:20 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504212349.RAA14054@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 21, 95 05:49:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 182 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FOO= 1 > FOO= undefined How about just: FOO= make an empty definition undefined. Undefineds are treated as empty in make anyway. It would also match the way .SUFFIXES: works. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 22:21:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08689 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:21:54 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08683 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:21:50 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA00942; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:19:15 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504220519.WAA00942@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? To: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504220356.UAA02180@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 21, 95 08:56:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 680 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It sure would help if you read psd:12 from your 4.4 manual set if > your going to do much more with Make. On page 12-7 you will see > #undef variable described. > > Note that our make uses .undef, and I have tested it, and it works. > > Why do we use . instead of #? I've installed pmake on my system, > but it's not a straight drop-in replacement for make due to this and > other differences. > I do not have an answer for this, it was something done at CSRG. It would be a major rework to change it though! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 22:29:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08828 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:29:55 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08822 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:29:52 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA00958; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:26:46 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504220526.WAA00958@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504220339.WAA06361@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 21, 95 10:39:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 640 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > FOO= 1 > > > FOO= undefined > > How about just: > > FOO= > > make an empty definition undefined. Undefineds are treated as empty in make > anyway. It would also match the way .SUFFIXES: works. That is in ``make'', read the psd:12 manual for the difference between undefined and variables that are empty, it is different in pmake. I have not verified that our make truely follows the pmake manual in this regard, but I do seem to recall having some trouble in this area. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 22:38:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08957 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:38:16 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08951 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:38:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA19658; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:37:36 -0600 Message-Id: <199504220537.XAA19658@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Upgrade paths Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:17:38 PDT Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:37:36 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : I don't know. This all depends on the 3-4 people who stepped forward : and promised to be working on various solutions to the upgrade problem : in time for 2.1. :-( Hmmm, maybe it is time for a list. I'd like to know who the other 2-3 people were :-). : For 2.0.5, my general plan was (if no one else stepped forward with : something better) to simply document the steps to follow _very : carefully_, culling details out of the 20 or so email messages I've : received from people detailing their own upgrade procedures. : Not the best, but a heck of a lot better than nothing! I think I may be able to act as a guinea pig for this. Wanna bounce me a copy? Better yet, it might be a good idea to bounce one to the list to have them (or current) sanity check to make sure you don't leave anything important out :-). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 22:40:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA09011 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:40:15 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08993 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:40:03 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <151>; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:52:10 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:51:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Gary Palmer cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-Reply-To: <795.798520394@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > Using PPP it is relatively easy if you use ijppp (see `man ppp'). Normal > PPP could also do it probably. It's nearly impossible with slip as there > is no negotiation between the two computers with SLIP. Dynamic addressing is very possible with SLIP and freebsd. Something like this: 1. Dial and login with cu 2. Take note of IP adress that you are given 3. Suspend cu 4. Execute: slattach ... 5 Execute: ifconfig sl0 6 Execute: route add default -interface I realize that that you'd normally ifconfig a SLIP address with both the local and remote addresses, but this doesn't seem to serve any purpose, and some servers don't tell you their address. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 22:55:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA09577 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:55:32 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09569 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:55:30 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA17668; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 01:51:36 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 01:51:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Gary Palmer cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-Reply-To: <795.798520394@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > > Using PPP it is relatively easy if you use ijppp (see `man ppp'). Normal > PPP could also do it probably. It's nearly impossible with slip as there > is no negotiation between the two computers with SLIP. > Whatever script is being used to negotiate the SLIP login can be used to parse the SLIP IP address. However I have seen BSD's slattach "figure out" the IP address without even being told. I don't know whether it was magic, or a feature, but its elegant and comforting. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 23:12:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA10769 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:12:42 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10763 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:12:39 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA03811; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:12:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:12:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199504220612.XAA03811@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com CC: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <199504220519.WAA00942@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: #if instead of .if From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * I do not have an answer for this, it was something done at CSRG. It would * be a major rework to change it though! # is already used for comments. If you don't want to get into trouble with things like #if you don't think this is confusing, you are not thinking :p you can't use #. See how much trouble the X/imake folks go through (use XCOMM in their Imakefile, which are replaced with # for Makefile, ugh) to avoid this problem. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 23:48:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11375 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:48:48 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11362 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:48:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA05895; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:46:53 +0200 Message-Id: <199504220646.IAA05895@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: rsanders@interbev.mindspring.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: crypt folks? Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:46:49 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is an encrypting telnet on ftp.funet.fi which use Secure RPC auth. to > avoid Kerberos' requirement. /pub/security/telnet if I remember well. Great! I'll take a look... Thanks. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 21 23:56:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11616 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:56:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11599 ; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:56:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Tom Samplonius cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 95 22:51:21 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:56:49 -0700 Message-ID: <11598.798533809@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message , Tom Sa mplonius writes: > Dynamic addressing is very possible with SLIP and freebsd. Something >like this: I should have said ``automated dynamic addressing''. I certainly would not like to go through that procedure every time I wanted to read e-mail! Long live automated PPP scripts! Gary ( :-) ) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 00:17:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA12093 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:17:30 -0700 Received: from mpp.com (dialup-5-137.gw.umn.edu [128.101.96.137]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA12081 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:17:14 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA01395 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:16:33 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199504220716.CAA01395@mpp.com> Subject: More devfs stuff To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:16:33 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 634 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Before I forget, it seems like people are leaning towards the /dev/xxx/zzz style for the DEVFS project. I've seen quite a few examples that list /dev/pty/00 as the format they want (for example). Please, lets save us a lot of trouble down the road and make it /dev/pty/000. I've been through one conversion that went from a 64 to a 256+ limit in this area, and I would not like to do it again. Heck, even /dev/pty/0000 isn't even really out of line these days. Repeat after me: future expansion, future expansion... -- Mike Pritchard pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 00:36:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA12260 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:36:41 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA12252 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:36:36 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA01174; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:33:56 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504220733.AAA01174@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: More devfs stuff To: pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Mike Pritchard) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504220716.CAA01395@mpp.com> from "Mike Pritchard" at Apr 22, 95 02:16:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 914 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Before I forget, it seems like people are leaning towards the > /dev/xxx/zzz style for the DEVFS project. I've seen quite a few > examples that list /dev/pty/00 as the format they want (for example). > Please, lets save us a lot of trouble down the road and make > it /dev/pty/000. I've been through one conversion that went from > a 64 to a 256+ limit in this area, and I would not like > to do it again. Heck, even /dev/pty/0000 isn't even really > out of line these days. > > Repeat after me: future expansion, future expansion... Then do it really right, and don't use leading zero's to imply an upper limit. Look at the current /dev/fd, it works just fine and has no upper bounds (well, okay the minor is still a limit at what, 24 bits??). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 02:49:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA15732 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:49:15 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA15726 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:49:14 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id CAA22695 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:49:14 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504220949.CAA22695@ref.tfs.com> Subject: do you have probelms with your laptops disk ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 507 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you have a laptop and FreeBSD freaks out if your disk spins down to save power, please send me email, I have a fix I need people to test. If you see the "wdc0: extra interrupt" message when the disk spins down, I would like to hear about it too. send email to phk@freebsd.org, >>> Don't use "group reply" to the list <<< -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 03:34:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA16600 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 03:34:07 -0700 Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA16594 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 03:34:00 -0700 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id MAA18810; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:32:20 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199504221032.MAA18810@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:32:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201824.SAA12336@whydos.lkg.dec.com> from "Matt Thomas" at Apr 20, 95 06:24:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 332 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Matt Thomas wrote: > > > Hi. Thanks for your info. > > > > I'll write a longer reply later, but I have a question now. How much > > does the DEC FDDI adapter cost? > > DEC FDDI PCI DEFPA-UA $695 (US) > DEC FDDI EISA DEFEA-UA $895 (US) > DEC Fast Ether DE500-XA $249 (US) > What drivers are needed for these adapters? -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 03:39:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA16762 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 03:39:46 -0700 Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA16756 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 03:39:41 -0700 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id MAA18831; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:39:37 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199504221039.MAA18831@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: ipfw code To: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:39:36 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 143 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone seen/heart form Ugen lately? I am trying to send him some email about a rewrite of ipfw I want to do. But I cant reach him. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 03:56:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA16939 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 03:56:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA16928 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 03:56:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Subject: Re: ipfw code In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 95 12:39:36 +0200." <199504221039.MAA18831@gvr.win.tue.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 03:56:39 -0700 Message-ID: <16925.798548199@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504221039.MAA18831@gvr.win.tue.nl>, Guido van Rooij writes: >Has anyone seen/heart form Ugen lately? I am trying to send him >some email about a rewrite of ipfw I want to do. But I cant reach >him. I had e-mail from him ~2-3 weeks ago saying he was still snowed under at work, but I haven't sent mail since, so I dunno if he's still there. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 04:05:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA17388 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 04:05:27 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA17382 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 04:05:25 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA04771; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 04:04:27 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 04:04:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199504221104.EAA04771@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com CC: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de In-reply-to: <199504211631.JAA08622@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Beer From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * > wcarchive. Gary, Poul-Henning, Justin, Satoshi and Jack are already * Give me 3 days notice and I can make it down pretty easy if someone * is willing to swing by OAK or SFO. Well, I can certainly drop by OAK or SFO on my way down to Santa Clara, but you probably don't want to ride on the back of my bike with all your laptops.... :p Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 04:24:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA20193 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 04:24:53 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA20119 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 04:24:49 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA10321; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:37:20 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA19024 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:25:18 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07043 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:46:14 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA01248; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:33:31 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504211633.SAA01248@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:33:30 +1596657 (MET DST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504211356.JAA16639@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 21, 95 09:56:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1745 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Yuck! Powering up/down for SCSI devices on the fly is generally a > > sure way to hang the buses, screw the disks etc. It *should* work, > > but my experience shows that it has something like a 20% chance to > > bomb. > > This is true, though with practice you only have to restore your > disks once a year. We still have a nasty bug someplace that results in > unending disk timeouts and eventual system death. Usually, though > our disk drivers I've also seen 'adapter frozen' or something similar on AH154x cards. Is this what you mean? > will redo a transfer that was in progress when a device powered up on > the bus, assuming the disk drive properly detects the power up. That's the way it should work yes. Don't count on all hostadapters to keep their act together though ;-) > A utility that suspends all activity on the SCSI bus will make powering > up a device safe, though, and I've been thinking of doing it (suspend > activity, beep when all activity is suspended, delay for 10 seconds, and > permit activity to resume). Should work fine. The raidsystems I use at work (==DEC) use a similar approach to 'hotswap' drives. While we are at it: the 'scsi' tool reputedly should allow a re-probe of all devices. What is the exact syntax for this? The man page is less than obvious to me (this is _still_ 1.1.5, I need stability more than features (...)) > Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 04:46:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA20895 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 04:46:18 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA20885 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 04:46:11 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id HAA03810; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:45:05 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504221145.HAA03810@hda.com> Subject: Reprobing scsi and bringing devices on line To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504211633.SAA01248@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Apr 21, 95 06:33:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1848 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte writes: > > > I've also seen 'adapter frozen' or something similar on AH154x cards. > Is this what you mean? I'm not sure, since what I usually see are lots of "sd?: timeout" messages followed by a hang since I'm running X. > > > will redo a transfer that was in progress when a device powered up on > > the bus, assuming the disk drive properly detects the power up. > > That's the way it should work yes. Don't count on all hostadapters > to keep their act together though ;-) It could be the host adapter getting screwed up, you're right. > > > A utility that suspends all activity on the SCSI bus will make powering > > up a device safe, though, and I've been thinking of doing it (suspend > > activity, beep when all activity is suspended, delay for 10 seconds, and > > permit activity to resume). > > Should work fine. The raidsystems I use at work (==DEC) use a similar > approach to 'hotswap' drives. This is working OK. I've had it running all night suspending I/O to the scsi bus for 20 seconds and then permitting it to run for 20 seconds while to loops of "cp -r /etc /usr/foo; rm -rf /usr/foo" are running > > While we are at it: the 'scsi' tool reputedly should allow a re-probe > of all devices. What is the exact syntax for this? The man page > is less than obvious to me (this is _still_ 1.1.5, I need stability > more than features (...)) There is no reprobe of all devices in 1.1.5. In -current there is. A reprobe of 1 device in 1.1.5 is effected by: scsi -f device -r [-b bus] [-t targ] [-l lun] # To reprobe a device where I think -f can be any of the "control" devices such as (for 1.1.5) /dev/rsd?d or /dev/st0ctl.0. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 06:02:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA22354 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 06:02:47 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA22348 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 06:02:45 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:02:40 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07913; Sat, 22 Apr 95 23:02:30 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504221302.AA07913@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: To anyone who lives in Houston TX. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:02:30 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 972 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Firstly, apologies for my misuse of this mailing list but I'm desperate. If you live in Houston, (preferably somewhere not too distant from 15810 Park Ten Place, Houston TX 77084) and have access to a postscript printer and are feeling in a `good samaritan' mood, please drop me some e-mail. It's a long (and tragic) story but I urgently need to get a 1 page graphical document in pristine condition (which is why I can't fax it) to someone who needs it by am Monday 24 and will pick it up from you. All you need to do is receive the postscript file by e-mail and print it. If you can help, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. (BTW, there is a FreeBSD connection. The postscript file was created with the aid of a machine running FreeBSD. Pathetically weak excuse, I know, but I really am desperate). Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 06:07:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA22456 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 06:07:03 -0700 Received: from dns.netvision.net.il (root@dns.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA22449 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 06:07:00 -0700 Received: from Burka.NetVision.net.il (root@Burka.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.15]) by dns.netvision.net.il (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00455; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:06:14 +0300 Received: (from gena@localhost) by Burka.NetVision.net.il (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA24469; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:14:26 +0300 From: Gennady Sorokopud Message-Id: <199504221314.QAA24469@Burka.NetVision.net.il> Subject: Re: ipfw code To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:14:26 +0300 (IDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504221039.MAA18831@gvr.win.tue.nl> from "Guido van Rooij" at Apr 22, 95 12:39:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 542 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ugen is on his way to US ( he's got a job in Washington ) Right now he's in Moscow i guess. He promised that he'll back to bussines in 2-3 weeks and will answer all the ipfw related questions. I hope he'll get back real fast because besides ipfw he's working with me on some mail project :-) ( If you want to take a look go to: ftp://Burka.NetVision.net.il/pub/xfmail ) > > Has anyone seen/heart form Ugen lately? I am trying to send him > some email about a rewrite of ipfw I want to do. But I cant reach > him. > > -Guido > Regards From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 07:05:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA23300 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:05:42 -0700 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA23294 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:05:26 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA20462; Sat, 22 Apr 95 16:04:25 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id QAA13521 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:15:01 +0200 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:15:01 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199504221415.QAA13521@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: laserwriter (SUN vs. FreeBSD) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm about to loose an important X.25 access to a SUN running Sunlink/X.25 only because the guys running that machine need the second serial port for another laser printer. I have two alternatives: Either persuade them to use a FreeBSD box and connect their laserwriter there or find a X.25 solution for my FreeBSD box (Anyone knowing a company offering such a solution for FreeBSD? I remember some company having announced something like that during the last week stressing that they chose FreeBSD for its superior networking - but I lost that mail). So the questions are: o Can a FreeBSD box substitute laserprinting a la Sun3 (OS 4.1.1) (with all these filters and printer download stuff) (I believe their's is a Apple Type LW) ? o Can a FreeBSD box turned into a X.25/X.29 box with affordable costs? Last resort would be top abandon X.25 at all. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.0.950418-SNAP FreeBSD 2.0.950418-SNAP #0: Sat Apr 22 04:33:25 MET DST 1995 root@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de:/usr/src/sys /compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 07:31:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA23798 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:31:48 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA23789 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:31:45 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id QAA07155 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:31:43 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id QAA18340 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:31:42 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504221431.QAA18340@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: yeah, what is the deal with this? To: lloth@menzo.sojourn.com Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:31:42 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 430 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can Free BSD do dynamic IP addressing? I have a customer that needs to be > able to handle dynamic IP addressing in order to get on-line. Is this possible? Both PPP shipped in FreeBSD do of course support dynamic address assignment. It is in the PPP standard. I use it myself. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 07:49:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA24293 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:49:56 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA24287 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:49:53 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id QAA07241 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:49:50 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id QAA18389 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:49:49 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504221449.QAA18389@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? To: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:49:49 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504220356.UAA02180@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 21, 95 08:56:41 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 346 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Why do we use . instead of #? I've installed pmake on my system, > but it's not a straight drop-in replacement for make due to this and > other differences. It is a compile-time option in pmake. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 07:57:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA24532 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:57:46 -0700 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA24525 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:57:44 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by mail1.digital.com; (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA13647; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:54:24 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA29989; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:51:54 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA24221; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:54:37 GMT Message-Id: <199504221054.KAA24221@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:32:20 +0200." <199504221032.MAA18810@gvr.win.tue.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:54:37 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Matt Thomas wrote: > > > DEC FDDI PCI DEFPA-UA $695 (US) > > DEC FDDI EISA DEFEA-UA $895 (US) > > DEC Fast Ether DE500-XA $249 (US) > > > What drivers are needed for these adapters? All the drivers have been submitted to FreeBSD (infact the 950412 SNAP should contain relatively recent copies of drivers). If you are interested in knowing which files are for each drivers, then: FDDI (PCI or EISA): /sys/pci/*pdq* Fast Ether: /sys/pci/{if_de.c,dc21040.h} I do have updates to the drivers which I will be submitting in a few days. (mostly minor fixes). Cheers, Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com U*X Networking WWW URL: http://ftp.dec.com/%7Ethomas/ Digital Equipment Corporation Disclaimer: This message reflects my Littleton, MA own warped views, etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 08:50:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA25657 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:50:37 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (mailman@uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.6.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA25651 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:50:36 -0700 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA19701 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:50:35 -0500 Received: from concorde.neosoft.com(198.65.161.214) by uuneo.neosoft.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019690; Sat Apr 22 10:50:29 1995 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:50:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Daniel Baker X-Sender: dbaker@concorde.neosoft.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Colorado Tape Drive (floppy tape) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I still can't get my floppy tape to work.. I tried the -c option with flags fdc0 1x0 flags fdc0 0x1 flags fdc0 1 (All at differnt times, not in one boot...) I also did the same thing by adding them to my kernel and re-compiling, it gives me a screen full of errors whenver it tries to probe my tape drive. Same error over and over again. It says something like reading writing error or something. Sorry if this isn't specific enough... Daniel Baker -- NeoSoft Student Assistant (UseNet, FTP & FreeNet Admin.) DBaker@NeoSoft.COM DBaker@Concorde-Mail.NeoSoft.COM ** http://www.neosoft.com/neosoft/staff/dbaker/default.html ** From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 08:50:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA25664 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:50:53 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA25658 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:50:52 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14262; Sat, 22 Apr 95 10:49:43 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504221549.AA14262@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:49:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504062222.PAA05304@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 6, 95 03:22:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 934 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Any one want to buy my Quantum Empire 2100 for $800, it's less than 120 days > old, as I am now going to sell it off and go buy 4 very fast 500MB > drive and make a stripe driver out of this code :-). > > [....] > > I have read the code in stripe.tar, it should be a day or twos work > to get it up and running under FreeBSD. Hi Rod, Did you ever make any progress on this? If not, I will (try to) look at it, but I'd prefer that somebody that knows what the heck they're doing down within the device driver code putz with it.. :-) Having recently seen Solaris' Online: DiskSuite, which suffers from fairly significant performance degradations, I'm curious to see what a real operating system can do. ;-) Thanks, ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 09:05:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA25908 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 09:05:46 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA25893 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 09:05:32 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <178>; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 09:17:26 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 09:15:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Gary Palmer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-Reply-To: <11598.798533809@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > In message , Tom Sa > mplonius writes: > > Dynamic addressing is very possible with SLIP and freebsd. Something > >like this: > > I should have said ``automated dynamic addressing''. I certainly would not > like to go through that procedure every time I wanted to read e-mail! > Long live automated PPP scripts! You could write a script for SLIP too. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 10:13:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA27009 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:13:08 -0700 Received: from outer.org (marcus@outer.ceh.servtech.com [204.181.5.20]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27003 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:13:05 -0700 Received: (from marcus@localhost) by outer.org (8.6.11/8.6.11) id NAA00427; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:18:24 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:18:24 -0400 From: Marcus Schwartz Message-Id: <199504221718.NAA00427@outer.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: laserwriter (SUN vs. FreeBSD) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm about to loose an important X.25 access to a SUN running Sunlink/X.25 > only because the guys running that machine need the second serial port for > another laser printer. I have two alternatives: Either persuade them > to use a FreeBSD box and connect their laserwriter there or find a > X.25 solution for my FreeBSD box (Anyone knowing a company offering > such a solution for FreeBSD? I remember some company having announced > something like that during the last week stressing that they chose > FreeBSD for its superior networking - but I lost that mail). how about just buying a mux card for the sun? I can get a 3 serial + 1 parallel sbus card for $300 or so. marcus From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 10:15:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA27199 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:15:54 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA27184 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:15:29 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA10581 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:06:22 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 22 Apr 95 21:06:21 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA06207; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:55:37 +0400 To: FreeBSD-hackers , Guido van Rooij References: <199504221039.MAA18831@gvr.win.tue.nl> In-Reply-To: <199504221039.MAA18831@gvr.win.tue.nl>; from Guido van Rooij at Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:39:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:55:37 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: ipfw code Lines: 15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 583 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504221039.MAA18831@gvr.win.tue.nl> Guido van Rooij writes: >Has anyone seen/heart form Ugen lately? I am trying to send him >some email about a rewrite of ipfw I want to do. But I cant reach >him. AFAIK Ugen arrive to Moscow several days ago and then travel to Kazan. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 11:02:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA28059 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:02:18 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA28047 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:02:15 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA02014; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:58:17 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504221758.KAA02014@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504221549.AA14262@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 22, 95 10:49:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2385 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Any one want to buy my Quantum Empire 2100 for $800, it's less than 120 days > > old, as I am now going to sell it off and go buy 4 very fast 500MB > > drive and make a stripe driver out of this code :-). > > > > [....] > > > > I have read the code in stripe.tar, it should be a day or twos work > > to get it up and running under FreeBSD. > > Hi Rod, > > Did you ever make any progress on this? If not, I will (try to) look at > it, but I'd prefer that somebody that knows what the heck they're doing down > within the device driver code putz with it.. :-) Yes, I played with that code (infact I have a kernel with /dev/ilv in it). I never made it work completly. Then I remeber the sys/dev/cd.c driver that came with 4.4 Lite and went and looked at it. I also have that working (renamed to concat.c to elimanate the conflict) partially, enough to say that I took 2 4MB/sec drives and interleaved them and got a 5.2MB/sec transfer rate for reads (I can't write due to bugs) *with out* spindle sync. I have done a bunch of aggregate bandwidth testing now using from 1 to 4 NCR810 SCSI controllers on a P54C-90 and found I can actually hit 12-14MB/sec using 4MB/sec drives. We seem to have a bottleneck in the ncr.c driver when trying to run multiple drives on one controller. I have run single drives on that controler at 6.6MB/sec, but two 4MB drives only get 5.3MB/sec. My first pass through concat.c was a ``mechanical conversion, just make the bloody thing compile and do *something*''. I am now onto the task of actually going through it and cleaning it up to work correctly. I have also been working with Peter Default on some scsi(8) commands to try and get my DEC 3053L drives to go into spindle sync mode. They are all wired up for it, but you have to set one drive to be the sync master via a mode select ioctl and we are having troubles getting this to work :-(. > Having recently seen Solaris' Online: DiskSuite, which suffers from fairly > significant performance degradations, I'm curious to see what a real > operating system can do. ;-) It will be at least another week, but you'll now I have made serious progress when you see a cvs commit message for the import of sys/dev/concat. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 11:37:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA29417 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:37:02 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA29411 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:36:59 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id OAA01099; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:36:56 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:36:56 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504221836.OAA01099@genesis.tiac.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Colorado Tape Drive (floppy tape) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I still can't get my floppy tape to work.. > > I tried the -c option with > flags fdc0 1x0 > flags fdc0 0x1 > flags fdc0 1 > > (All at differnt times, not in one boot...) What version of FreeBSD? > I also did the same thing by adding them to my kernel and re-compiling, > it gives me a screen full of errors whenver it tries to probe my tape > drive. Same error over and over again. It says something like reading > writing error or something. Please send a copy of a few of the messages along. Also, if you're running an older version of FreeBSD grab ft.c out of FreeBSD-current and try using that. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 11:41:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA29487 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:41:01 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA29480 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:40:58 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02160; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:38:12 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504221838.LAA02160@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Colorado Tape Drive (floppy tape) To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504221836.OAA01099@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Apr 22, 95 02:36:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 915 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I still can't get my floppy tape to work.. > > > > I tried the -c option with > > flags fdc0 1x0 > > flags fdc0 0x1 > > flags fdc0 1 > > > > (All at differnt times, not in one boot...) > > What version of FreeBSD? > > > I also did the same thing by adding them to my kernel and re-compiling, > > it gives me a screen full of errors whenver it tries to probe my tape > > drive. Same error over and over again. It says something like reading > > writing error or something. > > Please send a copy of a few of the messages along. Also, if you're > running an older version of FreeBSD grab ft.c out of FreeBSD-current > and try using that. > Grab *both* ft.c and fdc.c, they are interdependent with the last set of paches effecting both files!! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 12:06:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA29831 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:06:50 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA29814 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:06:44 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA28460; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:07:26 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504221907.UAA28460@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:07:25 +0100 (BST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504212349.RAA14054@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 21, 95 05:49:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 821 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Nate Williams who said > > > I've long been bothered by bmake's inability to programmatically unset > > a variable. Assuming that nobody feels it to be too evil a hack to > > live, are there any objections to using the keyword `.undef'? > > I'm kind of partial to '.undefine' myself, but I think the functionality > is a good addition to the utility. Too bad we couldn't find a way > similar to how something is defined to undefine it. > > FOO= 1 > > FOO= undefined Anyone see a problem with FOO= Seems to make sense to me. How many things would that break? -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 12:14:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA29905 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:14:47 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA29898 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:14:44 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA02245; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:11:44 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504221911.MAA02245@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504221907.UAA28460@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 22, 95 08:07:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1119 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply to Nate Williams who said > > > > > I've long been bothered by bmake's inability to programmatically unset > > > a variable. Assuming that nobody feels it to be too evil a hack to > > > live, are there any objections to using the keyword `.undef'? > > > > I'm kind of partial to '.undefine' myself, but I think the functionality > > is a good addition to the utility. Too bad we couldn't find a way > > similar to how something is defined to undefine it. > > > > FOO= 1 > > > > FOO= undefined > > Anyone see a problem with FOO= > Seems to make sense to me. How many things would that break? Anything that tried to do a: FOO= .if defined(FOO) BAR=${FOO} .else BAR=/usr/lib .endif would probably break. This behaves much differently than: .undef FOO .if defined(FOO) BAR=${FOO} .else BAR=/usr/lib .endif Note this whole question become a non issue when I pointed out the fact that our make alread has .undef implemented and tested to work. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 12:29:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA00190 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:29:48 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00184 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:29:47 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA28513; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:30:29 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504221930.UAA28513@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:30:29 +0100 (BST) Cc: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504212038.NAA09380@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 21, 95 01:38:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 676 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Rodney W. Grimes who said > > > > > Great idea. We definitely need a stronger usenet presence. > > One way gating is a bad idea, people would follow up to some posting > from the mailling list and it would never get to the original poster. > > This causes disjoint conversations that can confuse a situation very > badly! Yeah, right. Ok. What do people think about a full hackers<->comp.os.freebsd gateway then? -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 12:35:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA00263 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:35:15 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00257 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:35:12 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id NAA02298; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:38:47 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:38:47 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504221938.NAA02298@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Paul Richards Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-Reply-To: <199504221930.UAA28513@isl.cf.ac.uk> References: <199504212038.NAA09380@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> <199504221930.UAA28513@isl.cf.ac.uk> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What do people think about a full hackers<->comp.os.freebsd gateway then? I'm against it for the reasons already given, which mostly include the signal/noise ratio. Even the Linux developers have given up on the newsgroups and do most of the work in mailing lists. I *rarely* see any postings from Linus, and there are only 2-3 developers who answer questions anymore. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 12:39:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA00380 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:39:46 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00370 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:39:34 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA28580; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:40:09 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504221940.UAA28580@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:40:09 +0100 (BST) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504221938.NAA02298@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 22, 95 01:38:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1205 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Nate Williams who said > > > What do people think about a full hackers<->comp.os.freebsd gateway then? > > I'm against it for the reasons already given, which mostly include the > signal/noise ratio. > > Even the Linux developers have given up on the newsgroups and do most of > the work in mailing lists. I *rarely* see any postings from Linus, and > there are only 2-3 developers who answer questions anymore. I'm not going to push strongly for this but I'll make one last point. I'm only talking about hackers, which is not a development list and isn't even that technical, it more of a general discussion list and really plays the role that the newsgroup should. If we did set up a gateway then I guess the role will evolve and if it does get noisy people will drop from it and use -current instead. I don't see this being such a bad thing really and it would show the wider newsgroup audience that we're actually a pretty active project. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 12:55:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA00657 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:55:22 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00651 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:55:21 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA24000 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:55:20 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504221955.MAA24000@ref.tfs.com> Subject: wd0, an enlightning tale... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2284 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a story from which wisdom may be gained. I have a Gateway-2000 Handbook 486. I have had it for a year actually, and no problems. All the power-save/resume features worked like a charm. I got these "extra interrupt" messages when the disk went to sleep, but I could live with those, after all, it worked. But the 130Mb disk was a bit confined for my taste, so I finally bought a 720Mb disk for it. Now, I knew from other users of this machine, and from my own BIOS disassembly that it didn't like big disks, but I figured "Hey, FreeBSD can cope with a stupid bios" and went ahead. The drive says 1400/16/63, but the bios says 1023/15/63, but I don't care, because FreeBSD listens to the drive... Well there's this snag: When the BIOS puts the disk to sleep I get the "extra interrupt", fine, but when I try to access the disk next time, the BIOS intercepts the outb(), starts the disk and initializes the geometry before my outb() goes ahead. That means that the first read after the disk comes alive is botched, because it is being read with a different geometry. Can you spell "panic" ? Now, time for the ATA-spec. Hmmm, sleep mode... ah! here: "For devices that implement the Power Management features, the contents of the Status register and all other Command Block registers are not valid while a device is in the Sleep mode." So how can you tell if a disk is sleeping ? Answer: You can't ! So presently I have a couple of hacks working: "If the disk is busy when entering "wdcommand" then reinitialize it, because it is probably comming out of sleep mode with the wrong geometry." and "If we get an extra interrupt and the status reg is 0x7f, the disk probably was put to sleep behind our back" Now, if you enable other modes on your drive you need something similar, because the drive is likely to loose those settings (caches, multi-block &c &c) when it is sleeping, and we have presently no reliable way to tell that the drive has slept :-( foo... Anybody else seen problems like this ? I'll probably make a gross #ifdef'ed hack later today... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 13:15:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA01000 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:15:16 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (mailman@uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.6.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00994 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:15:12 -0700 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id PAA16490 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 15:15:10 -0500 Received: from concorde.neosoft.com(198.65.161.214) by uuneo.neosoft.com via smap (V1.3) id sma016434; Sat Apr 22 15:15:02 1995 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:25:32 -0500 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: freebsd.com: host not found) Message-Id: <199504221925.OAA11441@uuneo.neosoft.com> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OAA11441.798578732/uuneo.neosoft.com" ReSent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 15:14:54 -0500 (CDT) ReSent-From: Daniel Baker ReSent-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a MIME-encapsulated message --OAA11441.798578732/uuneo.neosoft.com The original message was received at Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:25:26 -0500 from mailman@localhost ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 ... Host unknown (Name server: freebsd.com: host not found) ----- Original message follows ----- --OAA11441.798578732/uuneo.neosoft.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: dbaker@Concorde-Mail.NeoSoft.COM Received: (from mailman@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id OAA11439; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:25:26 -0500 Received: from concorde.neosoft.com(198.65.161.214) by uuneo.neosoft.com via smap (V1.3) id sma011391; Sat Apr 22 14:25:00 1995 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:24:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Daniel Baker X-Sender: dbaker@concorde.neosoft.com To: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.com Subject: Re: Colorado Tape Drive (floppy tape) In-Reply-To: <199504221720.MAA14445@anvil.appsmiths.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Clay D. Hopperdietzel wrote: > :: > :: I still can't get my floppy tape to work.. > :: > :: I tried the -c option with > :: flags fdc0 1x0 > :: flags fdc0 0x1 > :: flags fdc0 1 > :: > :: (All at differnt times, not in one boot...) > :: > :: I also did the same thing by adding them to my kernel and re-compiling, > :: it gives me a screen full of errors whenver it tries to probe my tape > :: drive. Same error over and over again. It says something like reading > :: writing error or something. Okay, here are my errors: r output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in inp ut: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for outp ut in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fd c0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for o utput in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: re ady for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready fo r output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: ready for output in input: fdc0: too many errors, not logging any more fd0: Operation timeout fd0c: hard error reading fsbn 0 (No status) > > The errors are "normal", and would indicate that you successfully > set the flags. (mode 2 and 3 should have worked, 1 is nonsense). Maybe those aren't the errors you are talking about.. > > When you get the errors, try using the tape and see if it works now. > Remember to use 'ft' to do I/O to it: > > tar cvf - f1 f2 ... | ft concorde % tar cvf - f1 / /usr | ft tar: can't add file f1 : No such file or directory tar: Removing leading / from absolute path names in the archive. usr/ usr/tmp/ usr/tmp/src/ usr/tmp/src/cksums usr/tmp/src/srcsys.au /dev/rft0: Device not configured concorde % /dev/ft0: Device not configured tar: can't add file f1 : No such file or directory tar: Removing leading / from absolute path names in the archive. usr/ usr/tmp/ usr/tmp/src/ usr/tmp/src/cksums usr/tmp/src/srcsys.au concorde % concorde % tar cvf - f1 / /usr | ft -f /dev/ft1 tar: can't add file f1 : No such file or directory tar: Removing leading / from absolute path names in the archive. usr/ usr/tmp/ usr/tmp/src/ usr/tmp/src/cksums usr/tmp/src/srcsys.au /dev/ft1: Device not configured concorde % I tried all the devices that my tape drive should be on.. > > I also recall from my previous dealings with you that you only had a single > floppy and one tape connected to the controller. Is that still the > case? Yes.. Actually, my tape drive dosen't go directly to the controller, it shares the jumper with the a:\ or /dev/fd0. So, in MS-Dos, when I backup my hard drive, it won't let me use the a:\.. > =============================================================================== > Clay D. Hopperdietzel hoppy@appsmiths.com > AppSmiths, Inc. Voice (713) 578-0154 Fax (713) 578-6182 > 15915 Katy Fwy, Suite 470 Where do *I* Want to Go Today? > Houston, Texas 77094 FreeBSD! ..Daniel Daniel Baker -- NeoSoft Student Assistant (UseNet, FTP & FreeNet Admin.) DBaker@NeoSoft.COM DBaker@Concorde-Mail.NeoSoft.COM ** http://www.neosoft.com/neosoft/staff/dbaker/default.html ** --OAA11441.798578732/uuneo.neosoft.com-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 13:47:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA01971 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:47:16 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01964 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:47:13 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA19969; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:42:22 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:42:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Joe Greco cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] In-Reply-To: <9504221549.AA14262@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > Any one want to buy my Quantum Empire 2100 for $800, it's less than 120 days > > old, as I am now going to sell it off and go buy 4 very fast 500MB > > drive and make a stripe driver out of this code :-). > > > > [....] > > > > I have read the code in stripe.tar, it should be a day or twos work > > to get it up and running under FreeBSD. > > Hi Rod, > > Did you ever make any progress on this? If not, I will (try to) look at > it, but I'd prefer that somebody that knows what the heck they're doing down > within the device driver code putz with it.. :-) > > Having recently seen Solaris' Online: DiskSuite, which suffers from fairly > significant performance degradations, I'm curious to see what a real > operating system can do. ;-) > If there is any progress on this, I'd like to know. In fact I might be interested in testing for anyone. I have 4 speedy 4 gig drives that would just love to run striped. Thanks, -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 14:47:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA04063 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:47:44 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA04057 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:47:43 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA03303; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:46:31 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504222146.RAA03303@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: 2.x and large memory configs To: smace@metal-mail.neosoft.com (Scott Mace) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504220216.UAA04161@metal.ops.neosoft.com> from "Scott Mace" at Apr 21, 95 08:16:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1292 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, > > Has anyone used FreeBSD 2 (or the snaps) with large mem configs like > around 128megs? (EISA or PCI bus). As far as I know only SNAPs older than 0210 will work with big amount of RAM I personally have PC with 128Mb RAM under 2.1Development (aka SNAPs). If you'll be able to fix source code in sys/src/sys/i386/i386/machdep.c near the lines saying : /* Use BIOS values stored in RTC CMOS RAM, since probing * breaks certain 386 AT relics. */ to fake stuff like : biosextmem = 129024; /* only the line wich deals with biosextmem */ /* should be changed */ instead of using the BIOS call to define amount of RAM installed , and #define LARGEMEM thru the option in config file for new kernel, you'll be set. The problem is that some PC brands report wrong amount of memory ( I have some 4 names in my collection of brain-dead brands , including well respected Gateway-2000, DELL , Micron ). > > Scott > If you plan to add extra RAM in the future ( and do have free SIMM slots :) - setup the amount to some really fantastic value ( 129024*2 will be nice ) - so the kernel will determine the amount of RAM kinda automatically. It scans the RAM till first invalid/nonexistent page and won't use the RAM addrs above that value. Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 14:48:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA04088 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:48:36 -0700 Received: from POSC.org (posc.org [192.246.215.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA04082 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:48:34 -0700 Received: from posc.posc.org (posc.posc.org [192.246.215.30]) by POSC.org (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01633; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:48:28 -0500 Received: from sys14.posc.org (sys14.posc.org [192.246.215.69]) by posc.posc.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA09639; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:48:26 -0500 Received: by sys14.posc.org (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02374; Sat, 22 Apr 95 16:48:36 CDT Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:48:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Waddell X-Sender: waddell@sys14 To: Gary Roberts Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: To anyone who lives in Houston TX. In-Reply-To: <9504221302.AA07913@wcs.uq.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am at 10777 Westheimer Rd., Suite 275 and I can help. You can page me on (713) 707-6157 or my home phone is (713) 493-2698. On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Gary Roberts wrote: > Firstly, apologies for my misuse of this mailing list but I'm desperate. > > If you live in Houston, (preferably somewhere not too distant from 15810 > Park Ten Place, Houston TX 77084) and have access to a postscript printer > and are feeling in a `good samaritan' mood, please drop me some e-mail. > > It's a long (and tragic) story but I urgently need to get a 1 page > graphical document in pristine condition (which is why I can't fax it) > to someone who needs it by am Monday 24 and will pick it up from you. > All you need to do is receive the postscript file by e-mail and print it. > > If you can help, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. > (BTW, there is a FreeBSD connection. The postscript file was created with > the aid of a machine running FreeBSD. Pathetically weak excuse, I know, > but I really am desperate). > > Cheers, > -- > Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) > 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. > ========================================================================== | Dave Waddell | Disclaimer - I don't even speak for myself | | waddell@posc.org | | | kb5wxe@kb5wxe.ampr.org | + 1 713 267 5103 | ========================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 14:49:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA04108 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:49:18 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA04102 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:49:17 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA03901; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:51:47 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504222151.RAA03901@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504220033.RAA02816@violet.berkeley.edu> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 05:33:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 606 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ppl, > > Organization: Sojourn Systems Ltd. Lansing,MI (USA) > > Can Free BSD do dynamic IP addressing? I have a customer that needs to be > able to handle dynamic IP addressing in order to get on-line. Is this possible? > There are 2 ways to do dynamic IP addressing considering PPP : BOOTP , which basically has nothing to do with PPP itself , and NCP - network control proto, which is actually a part of PPP. As far I as know , the PPP in FreeBSD is all-relevant-RFCs compliant, therefore there shouldn't be any restrictions on dynamic IP addrs negotiating :) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 14:56:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA04425 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:56:51 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA04419 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:56:48 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id RAA05328; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:55:18 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504222155.RAA05328@hda.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504221940.UAA28580@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 22, 95 08:40:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1793 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards writes: > > In reply to Nate Williams who said > > > > > What do people think about a full hackers<->comp.os.freebsd gateway then? > > > > I'm against it for the reasons already given, which mostly include the > > signal/noise ratio. > > > > Even the Linux developers have given up on the newsgroups and do most of > > the work in mailing lists. I *rarely* see any postings from Linus, and > > there are only 2-3 developers who answer questions anymore. > > I'm not going to push strongly for this but I'll make one last point. I'm > only talking about hackers, which is not a development list and isn't > even that technical, it more of a general discussion list and really > plays the role that the newsgroup should. > > If we did set up a gateway then I guess the role will evolve and if it > does get noisy people will drop from it and use -current instead. I > don't see this being such a bad thing really and it would show the > wider newsgroup audience that we're actually a pretty active project. > Our mailing list definition: > freebsd-hackers Technical discussions and suggestions ... > freebsd-current Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current I don't mind having "questions" gated to the newsgroup. I don't want to see hackers gated. IMHO, -current isn't for technical talk, it is for "BE SURE YOU RECOMPILE CONFIG" and other notes specifically pertaining to running -current. If -hackers isn't technical which lists are? Also, which are the development lists? Am I missing out on a whole bunch of good technical discussion about FreeBSD? Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 16:36:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA06978 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:36:12 -0700 Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA06967 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:36:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199504222336.QAA06967@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: ipfw code To: gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com (Gary Palmer) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <16925.798548199@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Gary Palmer" at Apr 22, 95 03:56:39 am From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 503 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer writes: > > In message <199504221039.MAA18831@gvr.win.tue.nl>, Guido van Rooij writes: > >Has anyone seen/heart form Ugen lately? I am trying to send him > >some email about a rewrite of ipfw I want to do. But I cant reach > >him. > > I had e-mail from him ~2-3 weeks ago saying he was still snowed under > at work, but I haven't sent mail since, so I dunno if he's still > there. As I know, now he's in Russia now. Probably his email is ugen@deep-thought.demos.su > > Gary > -- dima From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 17:04:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA07445 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:04:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA07439 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:04:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: What's going on with 2.0.5. Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:04:46 -0700 Message-ID: <7438.798595486@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just thought I owed everyone a status report, so here it is.. I'll try to be brief, thus conserving both your time and my own! Wcarchive died on the operating table when we attempted to add 3 drives to it. We didn't attempt to do anything especially creative, we simply optioned and plugged 3 more drives into our expansion rack. Of course, this is a PC we're talking about here, the notorious Chihuahua of the hardware world, so no one was particularly surprised by these antics. We pushed too hard and it fell over! Happens all the time! Since then, wcarchive has been hauled back up to Concord and gone into major overhaul mode. Its motherboard, always been somewhat flakey and weird with the 192MB of memory (this very early ASUS we're talking here), has been replaced. The aging 1742 in it that had also finally decided that its natural lifespan had been exceeded has been replaced, though we're making another field trip out today to hopefully settle the overall controller situation since the Bt747c is now unhappy with its life! Things are not happy in wcarchive's case. This came at a bad time for all concerned, naturally, given the degree of overlap in our amount of concern for wcarchive (our most visible baby on the Internet) and our release schedule for 2.0.5. Also not comforting have been some of the problems encountered in trying to get wcarchive to run 2.0-current (we *really* need 4GB partitions on that machine!) with the 2742 controllers. Justin has discovered some interesting things about the later revisions of these controllers, and I think that I can easily forsee some patches coming out of that in the next few days. Since the AHC support is a pretty vital component of 2.0.5 (a lot of people are using these things!), I would also say it'd be worth holding the release an extra day or two for that alone. Suffice it to say that 2.0.5 is going to slip ANYWAY. We want a chance to test wcarchive under more serious load, find and fix the things that cause it to fall over and then take that final "it's not running too bad, boss!" collection of bits and call it 2.0.5. Those working on wcarchive will be also be somewhat distracted away from 2.0.5, as you'd expect, and I have no immedate estimate as to the amount of slippage that will result. I can at least say with some authority that 2.0.5 will NOT be going out this weekend! :-( Thanks. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 19:00:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA09889 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:00:16 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA09881 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:00:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199504230200.TAA09881@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA16162; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:00:11 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Subject: Best SCSI Controller To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:00:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 377 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey Guys, whats the best SCSI (best meaning most reliable first, then fastest) controller for FreeBSD? It seems BusLogic support has been around a loong time, so Im lookint at the 946c as agood choice, comments? (What do you run Jordan?) -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 19:53:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA11331 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:53:06 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA11319 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:53:03 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10045; Sat, 22 Apr 95 20:46:11 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504230246.AA10045@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? To: gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com (Gary Palmer) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 20:46:10 MDT Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com In-Reply-To: <11598.798533809@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Gary Palmer" at Apr 21, 95 11:56:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Dynamic addressing is very possible with SLIP and freebsd. Something > >like this: > > I should have said ``automated dynamic addressing''. I certainly would not > like to go through that procedure every time I wanted to read e-mail! > Long live automated PPP scripts! What standard mechanism is the remote end using to report the address you should use? 8-) 8-) 8-). Too bad you can't bring up ICMP before IP on SLIP. Otherwise you'd use DHCP in bootp to do it. Not that anyone has real DHCP support. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 19:57:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA11731 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:57:54 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA11724 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:57:52 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10096; Sat, 22 Apr 95 20:51:21 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504230251.AA10096@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: More devfs stuff To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 20:51:21 MDT Cc: pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504220733.AAA01174@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 22, 95 00:33:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > examples that list /dev/pty/00 as the format they want (for example). [ ... ] > > Repeat after me: future expansion, future expansion... > > Then do it really right, and don't use leading zero's to imply an > upper limit. Look at the current /dev/fd, it works just fine and > has no upper bounds (well, okay the minor is still a limit at what, > 24 bits??). The minor number is irrelevent. A properly articulated devfs will result in the death of specfs. On the other hand, there are many reporting tools (ps, etc.) that have a limit on the number of tty type devices based on a interface identifier character and one or two instance identifiers (for ps this is one). A leading 0 simplifies some aspects of reporting and autogeneration while only eating 10 (0-9 + 00-09 vs. 00-09) devices (a max of 10% per increment, assuming you didn't find a distinction between 0 and 00 a bit too confusing anyway). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 20:00:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA11809 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:00:03 -0700 Received: from cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu (root@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu [128.173.43.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA11797 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:00:01 -0700 Received: (kmitch@localhost) by cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu (8.6.11/8.6.5) id WAA03403; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:59:38 -0400 From: Keith Mitchell Message-Id: <199504230259.WAA03403@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu> Subject: Problems with current (IDE/pdksh port) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:59:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1277 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I recently upgraded to the 04/12 snapshot and to the current for the kernel. I am having several problems. The first prblem involves my IDE harddrive/controller. After the controller is probed (right before it actuall prints that it probes the device, the hard drive light comes on and it will not go off. This happens with the stock GENERIC kernel as well as my customizewd kernel. The drive appears to work normally however. Another problem I am havin is when trying to compile the pdksh port. It gets as far as the configure script, and when it gets to the part when it scans for a "working mmap" it locks up the system so tight I have to press the little button on the front of the case. I have also shutdown the system a couple of times and the system freezes while it appears to be syncing the disks. I don't know if this is related to anything or not, but just about every other time I reboot and start xdm, xconsole reports that it could not open /dev/console. -- Keith Mitchell | The real danger is not that computers will Chesapeake/Blacksburg VA | begin to think like men, but that men will kmitch@infi.net | begin to think like computers. kmitch@csugrad.cs.vt.edu | -- Sydney J. Harris From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 20:13:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA12110 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:13:44 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA12104 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:13:41 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10158; Sat, 22 Apr 95 21:06:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504230306.AA10158@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: laserwriter (SUN vs. FreeBSD) To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 21:06:56 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504221415.QAA13521@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Apr 22, 95 04:15:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > o Can a FreeBSD box turned into a X.25/X.29 box with affordable costs? Two known ways: ] From: hill@fluky.mitre.org (William H. Hill) ] Message-Id: <9504141813.AA06179@fluky.mitre.org> ] Subject: Porting Device Driver ] To: questions@FreeBSD.org ] Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 14:13:02 -0400 (EDT) ] Cc: hill@fluky.mitre.org (William H. Hill) ] X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] ] Content-Type: text ] Content-Length: 576 ] Sender: questions-owner@FreeBSD.org ] Precedence: bulk ] Status: OR ] ] ] Where can I find information regarding writing device drivers ] for FreeBSD? ] ] I have a driver written (for BSDI) for Adax boards which we use ] for X.25, and I'd like to converto to FreeBSD. ] ] Aside from the obvious differences in arguments passed to driver functions, ] which I'm trying to sort out, I'm wondering what else I might run in to. ] This is my first venture into device drivers, and I'm told it's fraught ] with peril. Any help would be appreciated! ] ] Bill Hill The MITRE Corporation ] whill@mitre.org McLean, Va. And ] From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) ] Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? ] Cc: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org ] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org ] Precedence: bulk ] Status: OR ] ] ] Something that might help in your case against LINUX...... ] ] We have recently announced a full suite of serial support for FreeBSD. Our ] high performance serial controllers run up to T1 speeds (V.35, RS-449) and ] we support ] Cisco Serial Protocol, PPP, X.25 and Frame Relay. There is no comparable ] product for LINUX (the Linux people have been swamping us with requests, but ] we wanted to use FreeBSD internally because we think it is a much better ] product). WAN networking is VERY important these days. ] ] ] Dennis ] Emerging Technologies, Inc. I have personal experience with X.25 boards with X.29 pads built into them, but I can't remember the !@#!$! board names. One's French, and the other's Canadian (the Canadian company used to advertise in UNIX Review, their name starts with 'A'). They both look like FIFO'ed serial boards and driver writing is fairly simply (this is pretty darn high speed serial, though). They (used to anyway) release programming info without non-disclosure. Sorry, I don't have more information, but the last time I placed with this was on the DDN (Defense Data Network) and in connection to a contract with the French Ministry of Defense (and their big upside down U shaped building, which was almost all X.25). This was way back in 89/90. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 20:16:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA12227 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:16:30 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA12221 ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:16:29 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA25429; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:16:29 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504230316.UAA25429@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <24740.798506728@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 21, 95 04:25:28 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 487 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk submit it back to 'CSRG' (?!) > > The subject says it all.. > > I've long been bothered by bmake's inability to programmatically unset > a variable. Assuming that nobody feels it to be too evil a hack to > live, are there any objections to using the keyword `.undef'? > > Yes, it will make us non-standard, but we're essentially ALREADY > non-standard due to having a build system from hell that nobody else > is going to adopt without taking our make, too. > > Jordan > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 20:34:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA12428 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:34:39 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA12422 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:34:38 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10212; Sat, 22 Apr 95 21:28:09 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504230328.AA10212@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: 2.x and large memory configs To: rashid@haven.ios.com (Rashid Karimov.) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 21:28:09 MDT Cc: smace@metal-mail.neosoft.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504222146.RAA03303@haven.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov." at Apr 22, 95 05:46:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone used FreeBSD 2 (or the snaps) with large mem configs like > > around 128megs? (EISA or PCI bus). > > As far as I know only SNAPs older than 0210 will work > with big amount of RAM > I personally have PC with 128Mb RAM under 2.1Development > (aka SNAPs). [ ... ] > The problem is that some PC brands report wrong > amount of memory ( I have some 4 names in my > collection of brain-dead brands , including > well respected Gateway-2000, DELL , Micron ). Actually, it would be nifty if someone were to add a sysctl command that would allow you to bump up the memory via a command in the RC file. I don't know what additional changes would be necessary for this to have the same impact as if the memory had always been there. This issue is likely to surface again if FreeBSD decides to support PCMCIA memory cards being ejected. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 20:42:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA12504 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:42:29 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA12498 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:42:28 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA25503; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:42:15 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504230342.UAA25503@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: To anyone who lives in Houston TX. To: waddell@POSC.org (Dave Waddell) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Cc: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Dave Waddell" at Apr 22, 95 04:48:35 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1844 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While we're about it Are the there any single women here, within driving distance of SF? :) :) As Gary said below.. > > Pathetically weak excuse, I know, > > but I really am desperate). :) :) :) julian > > I am at 10777 Westheimer Rd., Suite 275 and I can help. You can page me > on (713) 707-6157 or my home phone is (713) 493-2698. > > On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Gary Roberts wrote: > > > Firstly, apologies for my misuse of this mailing list but I'm desperate. > > > > If you live in Houston, (preferably somewhere not too distant from 15810 > > Park Ten Place, Houston TX 77084) and have access to a postscript printer > > and are feeling in a `good samaritan' mood, please drop me some e-mail. > > > > It's a long (and tragic) story but I urgently need to get a 1 page > > graphical document in pristine condition (which is why I can't fax it) > > to someone who needs it by am Monday 24 and will pick it up from you. > > All you need to do is receive the postscript file by e-mail and print it. > > > > If you can help, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. > > (BTW, there is a FreeBSD connection. The postscript file was created with > > the aid of a machine running FreeBSD. Pathetically weak excuse, I know, > > but I really am desperate). > > > > Cheers, > > -- > > Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) > > 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. > > > > ========================================================================== > | Dave Waddell | Disclaimer - I don't even speak for myself | > | waddell@posc.org | | > | kb5wxe@kb5wxe.ampr.org | + 1 713 267 5103 | > ========================================================================== > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 20:43:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA12522 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:43:09 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA12516 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:43:09 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA25498; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:42:08 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504230342.UAA25498@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: 2.x and large memory configs To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 20:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, smace@metal-mail.neosoft.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504230328.AA10212@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 22, 95 09:28:09 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 634 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This issue is likely to surface again if FreeBSD decides to support > PCMCIA memory cards being ejected. 8-). I doubt we would even think about that. Considering that you get no warning before it's ejected, and that they oftern suffer a big accesstime penalty, it is not a good idea to use PCMCIA for main-memory. We could add it as a "vm-cache", for inactive pages or something, that way nothing would turn purple because those pages vanished... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 21:05:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA12779 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:05:06 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA12769 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:05:05 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10300; Sat, 22 Apr 95 21:55:59 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504230355.AA10300@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 21:55:59 MDT Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504221758.KAA02014@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 22, 95 10:58:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... striping code ... ] > > Did you ever make any progress on this? If not, I will (try to) look at > > it, but I'd prefer that somebody that knows what the heck they're doing down > > within the device driver code putz with it.. :-) > > Yes, I played with that code (infact I have a kernel with /dev/ilv in > it). I never made it work completly. Then I remeber the sys/dev/cd.c > driver that came with 4.4 Lite and went and looked at it. I also have > that working (renamed to concat.c to elimanate the conflict) partially, > enough to say that I took 2 4MB/sec drives and interleaved them and > got a 5.2MB/sec transfer rate for reads (I can't write due to bugs) > *with out* spindle sync. This is nearly spot-on the theoretical performance of 5.3333 for two devices replacing a single device with a 100% random distribution of stripes between the media (assuming the 4MB/S number and 5.2MB/S number are correct). Congradulations! For anyone that's interested, the expected speed up is +33% for two units with N (N>=two) outstanding operations or 79% for three units with N (N>=three) outstanding operations. > I have done a bunch of aggregate bandwidth testing now using from 1 to > 4 NCR810 SCSI controllers on a P54C-90 and found I can actually hit > 12-14MB/sec using 4MB/sec drives. We seem to have a bottleneck in > the ncr.c driver when trying to run multiple drives on one controller. > I have run single drives on that controler at 6.6MB/sec, but two 4MB > drives only get 5.3MB/sec. This would be indicative of command queuing not working quite as expected, or a maximum of two outstanding requests simultaneously (5.3 is the maximum, which you'd expect if you didn't have drive interleave latency to consider. > My first pass through concat.c was a ``mechanical conversion, just make > the bloody thing compile and do *something*''. I am now onto the task > of actually going through it and cleaning it up to work correctly. I don't think you will get better than your first shot for random I/O. Unfortunately, I have an algorithm for calculating expected performance using equivalent drive/interface combinations, but it only works for the number of requests to satisfy being less than or equal to the number of disks. > > Having recently seen Solaris' Online: DiskSuite, which suffers from fairly > > significant performance degradations, I'm curious to see what a real > > operating system can do. ;-) > > It will be at least another week, but you'll now I have made serious > progress when you see a cvs commit message for the import of > sys/dev/concat. For truly random strip placement, there will be a potential for performance degradation based on the file system mechanism used to address the blocks themselves, and whether it is a high percentage of the overhead on the attempted I/O. The other consideration is that you are not typically going to see the performance increase unless you either split the drives between SCSI controllers or actually get command queueing working. Typically, I would expect that spindle sync would do nothing for you unless your stripe lengths are on the order of single cluster size and you divide the actual rotational latency of the drive by the number of synced spindles before using it, and then scale it by the relative sync notification time added to the rotational period. Adjusting all this for possible ZBR variations in the effective rotational period based on distance from the spindle. Then use round-robin allocation of sequential blocks from disk to disk to ensure linear ordering of the distribution. Or, you could get complicated. 8^). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 21:14:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13002 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:14:59 -0700 Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA12996 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:14:57 -0700 Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R2.01/dg-rtp-v02) id AA19492; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:13:52 -0400 Received: from lakes (lakes [192.96.3.39]) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA29410 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:13:15 -0400 Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA28254 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:28:14 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:28:14 -0400 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199504230228.WAA28254@lakes> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Interesting SCSI cdrom problem.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a NEC 3xP - which is/was their "personal" SCSI CD-ROM. It's nice enough and seems fast... However, I notice that when the disk spins down; from lack of an access in a few minutes; there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to spin it up again, except to umount the drive and re-mount it. Or - it's possible that the scenario is that if I mount the drive, then open the door (which you have to do so see if the drive is spinning) then re-close the door - that resets the drive, but isn't reflected in the "mount". What usually happens is that future accesses to the files (unless they were cached) causes I/O errors. (Well - I think I've empirically determined it's situation #2 - if you leave the CD in the drive, and wait - the drive does spin down. As long as you don't open the drive door, everything is fine. If you open, then close, the drive door - the mount is still present, and you get I/O errors.) - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 21:15:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13023 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:15:48 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA13017 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:15:47 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10351; Sat, 22 Apr 95 22:09:14 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504230409.AA10351@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: 2.x and large memory configs To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 22:09:13 MDT Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, smace@metal-mail.neosoft.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504230342.UAA25498@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 22, 95 08:42:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This issue is likely to surface again if FreeBSD decides to support > > PCMCIA memory cards being ejected. 8-). > > I doubt we would even think about that. Considering that you get no warning > before it's ejected, and that they oftern suffer a big accesstime penalty, > it is not a good idea to use PCMCIA for main-memory. > > We could add it as a "vm-cache", for inactive pages or something, that way > nothing would turn purple because those pages vanished... I was thinking of RAM disk myself, and sysctl'ing it back down before you eject it manually. Kinda brings up the problem of page classification for inactive vs. active and where RAM disks fit. This is on the order of "do I need bounce buffers" and "Is this a loadable driver that's going to stay around or not do I can avoid fragging memory". An intersting problem in what might be termed "page migration". Of course with migration, you'd migrate the user's pages in their buffers down instead of bouncing them. An interesting idea to consider, anyway. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 21:19:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13091 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:19:42 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA13085 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:19:41 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA25646; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:18:42 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504230418.VAA25646@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: 2.x and large memory configs To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, smace@metal-mail.neosoft.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504230409.AA10351@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 22, 95 10:09:13 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 943 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > This issue is likely to surface again if FreeBSD decides to support > > > PCMCIA memory cards being ejected. 8-). > > > > I doubt we would even think about that. Considering that you get no warning > > before it's ejected, and that they oftern suffer a big accesstime penalty, > > it is not a good idea to use PCMCIA for main-memory. > > > > We could add it as a "vm-cache", for inactive pages or something, that way > > nothing would turn purple because those pages vanished... > > I was thinking of RAM disk myself, and sysctl'ing it back down before > you eject it manually. How about, hmm, say "umount /my/ramdisk" ? :-) > An interesting idea to consider, anyway. Much more interesting: 80MB flash card and "execute in place" of binaries... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 21:41:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13334 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:41:40 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA13328 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:41:37 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA03062; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:38:54 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504230438.VAA03062@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Best SCSI Controller To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504230200.TAA09881@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Charles Henrich" at Apr 22, 95 10:00:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1127 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hey Guys, whats the best SCSI (best meaning most reliable first, then fastest) > controller for FreeBSD? It seems BusLogic support has been around a long > time, so I'm looking at the 946c as a good choice, comments? (What do you run > Jordan?) Right now I would say it is a toss up between the bt946C and the NCR 53C810 based controller. The BT946C has some motherboard compatibility problems that I have seen and heard of, and the NCR 53C810 has some device compatibility problems caused by the ncr.c sequencer code. Personally I have converted everything here to the NCR card, and keep at BT946C around for testing purposes only. Make sure your motherboard has the NCR SCSI BIOS in it, or get the NCR card with the BIOS on it if not. I have 3 PROM sets for the BT946 and a forth set on the way, I can now make the board work with all but one of my motherboards by changing the PROM, not a pretty thing for the end user, but a workable solution for me :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 21:44:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13373 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:44:24 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA13367 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:44:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199504230444.VAA13367@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA16493; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:44:21 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:44:21 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Apparently-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From henrich Sun Apr 23 00:43:53 1995 remote from crh Subject: Re: Best SCSI Controller To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:43:53 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199504230438.VAA03062@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 22, 95 09:38:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 541 Sender: henrich > Personally I have converted everything here to the NCR card, and keep > at BT946C around for testing purposes only. Make sure your motherboard > has the NCR SCSI BIOS in it, or get the NCR card with the BIOS on it > if not. What card is the NCR card? I always here references to the NCR chips, but I've never ever been able to come up with even one manufacturer who produceses an NCR based card... -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 22:01:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA13474 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:01:26 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA13468 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:01:25 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA25757; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:01:21 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504230501.WAA25757@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Interesting SCSI cdrom problem.. To: ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504230228.WAA28254@lakes> from "Thomas David Rivers" at Apr 22, 95 10:28:14 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1929 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is a 'feature' of the driver once the door has been openned, the drive reports to the driver, that there has been user intervention of some kind.. specifically a 'Unit attention' erro is reported to the driver.. this tells the driver that the cdrom MAY HAVE BEEN CHANGED!. The driver therefore aborts ALL operations until ALL USERS have closed the device. (including the 'mount' 'user' ). When the last user has closed the device, operations on the cdrom are re-enabled.. I'm glad to see you are getting this as it proves that the code in question is working, and it is vitally important to devices with read-write removable media that it does.... consider.. async write to drive... {change media} sync (OUCH!) the same problem exists for cdoms but it doesn't corrupt the media, just totally screws the internal cached copy of the filesystem nodes (i.e if it assumed that the same cdrom was in but wasn't.....) > > I have a NEC 3xP - which is/was their "personal" SCSI CD-ROM. > > It's nice enough and seems fast... > > However, I notice that when the disk spins down; from lack of an > access in a few minutes; there doesn't seem to be anything I can > do to spin it up again, except to umount the drive and re-mount it. > > Or - it's possible that the scenario is that if I mount the drive, > then open the door (which you have to do so see if the drive is spinning) > then re-close the door - that resets the drive, but isn't reflected > in the "mount". > > What usually happens is that future accesses to the files (unless > they were cached) causes I/O errors. > > > (Well - I think I've empirically determined it's situation #2 - if you > leave the CD in the drive, and wait - the drive does spin down. As long > as you don't open the drive door, everything is fine. If you open, > then close, the drive door - the mount is still present, and you get I/O > errors.) > > - Dave Rivers - > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 22:02:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA13491 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:02:08 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA13485 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:02:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA00566 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:04:55 GMT Message-Id: <199504221304.NAA00566@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Sound driver V30 available Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:04:54 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -------- The new sound driver and vmix is available at : ftp.shell.best.com:/pub/hasty/sndv3.x.tar.gz ftp.shell.best.com:/pub/hasty/vmix.tar.gz If you do decide to try the new sound driver, then make sure that : (a) you copy /sys/i386/isa/sound{ultrasound.h soundcard.h} to /usr/include/machine (b) recompile your sound apps If you have a plain old GUS after recompiling the apps everything should work for you . I recompiled all the sound apps available in FreeBSD-current and tested them with my GUS. The available sound driver is configured for my GUS MAX. The GUS MAX support needs a bit more work;however, the driver as it is configured it works with maplay, gmod , playmidi, adagio's mp, and nas. With my P66 I was able to play a 44.1k stereo sample mpeg file. There is a bug in the MAX's /dev/audio code or the (CS4321) code which makes playback to /dev/audio stop however mod players and midi players are still able to work. Last but not least I just got a GUS MAX so hopefully I should be able to beef up the MAX support. If others are interested in tinkering with the driver, Jim included in the driver Gravi's documentations for their sound kit -- ultrawrd.ps. There is no vat driver available with this release. The plan is to use Jim's vmix tool which interfaces to vat via a socket interface. This should in theory work with all supported sound cards. vmix is a pre-alpha release and I hope that by making the sources available others will be able to contribute and make it a robust tool. vmix is also a mix a tcl/tk interface to the mixers so you can control mic, line, pcm, synth devices... Just build it and play with it. Many thanks to Hannu Savolainen for making V30 available and to Jim Lowe for all his cools hacks :) I have to go now Bettina is pacing up and down ready to tear my head off... Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 22:10:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA13573 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:10:02 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA13560 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:09:58 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA03102; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:04:43 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504230504.WAA03102@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504230355.AA10300@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 22, 95 09:55:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3133 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Good feedback indicating my numbers are telling me what I was pretty sure there where telling me deleted] > > > Having recently seen Solaris' Online: DiskSuite, which suffers from fairly > > > significant performance degradations, I'm curious to see what a real > > > operating system can do. ;-) > > > > It will be at least another week, but you'll now I have made serious > > progress when you see a cvs commit message for the import of > > sys/dev/concat. > > For truly random strip placement, there will be a potential for > performance degradation based on the file system mechanism used to > address the blocks themselves, and whether it is a high percentage > of the overhead on the attempted I/O. Yes, and since I am working with the raw device and dd here my initial ``will it work'' kind of testing does not take any of this into consideration :-(. > The other consideration is that you are not typically going to see > the performance increase unless you either split the drives between > SCSI controllers or actually get command queueing working. Agreed, and since controllers are cheap for me, I'll create an a hardware queue by going to one drive per controller for now, then go hammer on the SCSI drivers when I need more :-) :-) We do have folks woring on tagged queueing out to the drives (aic7xxx) that will be help, but I have not had realible enough file systems when using this controller yet to convert my stripe developement machine to it, and they are high $$$$ items :-( > Typically, I would expect that spindle sync would do nothing for > you unless your stripe lengths are on the order of single cluster > size and you divide the actual rotational latency of the drive by > the number of synced spindles before using it, and then scale it > by the relative sync notification time added to the rotational > period. Adjusting all this for possible ZBR variations in the > effective rotational period based on distance from the spindle. > Then use round-robin allocation of sequential blocks from disk > to disk to ensure linear ordering of the distribution. The interleave modulus is tuneable (right now it is a crock compiled into ioconf.c, in ilv.c you can set it with an ioctl at LV creation time). If you keep this modulus to be smaller than the size of a cylinder for the smallest ZBR cyclinder you should not see the above problems. Also remember, I always use drives that have write behind caches in them so as long as I can deliver data to the drive at or near drive data rate this issue also dies. With sync'ed spindles I suspect that setting the interleave modulus to be DEV_BSIZE will end up optimal so that even file system frags have a chance of hitting 2 drives, and an 8K block has a chance to hit 16 :-) Though the overhead of splitting the IO and taking all those interrupts may nullify any advantage :-(. > Or, you could get complicated. 8^). Nope, don't want to do that, I'll use complicated hardware instead :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 22:36:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA13870 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:36:40 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA13864 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:36:38 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA26275; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:36:30 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:36:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199504230536.WAA26275@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: kmitch@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199504230259.WAA03403@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu> (message from Keith Mitchell on Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:59:38 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Problems with current (IDE/pdksh port) From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Another problem I am havin is when trying to compile the pdksh port. It * gets as far as the configure script, and when it gets to the part when it * scans for a "working mmap" it locks up the system so tight I have to * press the little button on the front of the case. Just wanted to tell you that the exact same thing happened to me when I was compiling pdksh on thud, running a fairly recent -current. When it got to the "checking for working mmap", it just hang. No answers to ping or anything. I don't know what the status it is now, nobody at WC seems to have the time to take a look at thud.... Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 22:45:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA13985 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:45:02 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA13972 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:44:57 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA19152; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:42:18 +0800 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:42:17 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Greg Watson cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <199504190603.QAA13328@pegasus.itc.gu.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, Greg Watson wrote: > > Sounds like you've ported almost all of our IBM SP2 environment to > FreeBSD. Just need to get LoadLeveler up and running and we can > chuck out AIX! Whoopee! Oh *nice*... we have an 18-node SP-1 system which are due for a $20 million upgrade this year (sit down, folks, that's New Taiwan $, less than a million US$). Just for fun, we worked out that the same amount of money would buy almost 300 100-MHz Pentium number crunchers (no graphics, no disk, FDDI, 16 megs). All running FreeBSD of course. ;-) Too bad the department didn't go for it. ;-( -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 23:06:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA14139 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:06:55 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA14130 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:06:44 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA19180; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:07:09 +0800 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:07:09 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: DHCP on FreeBSD (was Re: yeah, what is the deal with this?) In-Reply-To: <9504230246.AA10045@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Too bad you can't bring up ICMP before IP on SLIP. Otherwise you'd > use DHCP in bootp to do it. Not that anyone has real DHCP support. I vaguely remember someone sending from a .jp address reporting a go-ahead on DHCP for FreeBSD a month ago (or longer). Any updates on this project? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 22 23:40:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA14507 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:40:40 -0700 Received: from dns.netvision.net.il (root@dns.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA14501 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:40:37 -0700 Received: from Burka.NetVision.net.il (root@Burka.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.15]) by dns.netvision.net.il (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA12754 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 09:39:53 +0300 Received: (from gena@localhost) by Burka.NetVision.net.il (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA29346 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 09:48:06 +0300 From: Gennady Sorokopud Message-Id: <199504230648.JAA29346@Burka.NetVision.net.il> Subject: library conversion To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 09:48:06 +0300 (IDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 235 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! Is there any way to convert static library to shared? I succeded once with: ar x libxxx.o ld *.o -Bshareable -o libxxx.so.1.0 But now when i try to run a program linked with such library i get : ld.so failed :-( Any ideas?