From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 00:33:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA23332 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:33:38 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA23325 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:33:36 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA16460; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:40:32 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:40:32 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199507230740.AAA16460@lightlink.satcom.net> To: terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Cc: gurney_j@efn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems to me that FreeBSD needs a sysconfig program to generate the /etc/sysconfig file. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 00:40:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA23581 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:40:33 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA23572 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:40:30 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA16481; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:47:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:47:30 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199507230747.AAA16481@lightlink.satcom.net> To: gurney_j@efn.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > pcnfsd may be started by inetd but I had troubles in that my program > couldn't find it... so I added pcnfsd to run all the time and it works > nicely now... I experienced the same problem. My FreeBSD 2.0 couldn't start pcnfsd by inetd. Anybody know why? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 00:47:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA24083 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:47:01 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA24076 for hackers; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:47:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:47:00 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199507230747.AAA24076@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The /etc/sysconfig file should be machine genereated instead of on the install media as a part of the install set. That way the machine generation can take an existing /etc/sysconfig into account. All this and more is already solved in Windows NT. Why reinvent the motor? (I would say wheel, but the design is more involved than that.) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 01:44:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA25452 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:44:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA25446 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:44:26 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25387; Sun, 23 Jul 95 02:36:50 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507230836.AA25387@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 2:36:50 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka" at Jul 23, 95 10:39:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I don't think I quite understand why the previous behaviour was a > >problem in the first place -- perhas the original poster could explain > >the rationale for his changes a bit better? > > > The problem: initial port speed 9600, getty speed 38400 f.e., > port opened on carrier at 9600, modem detects it and set > connection to 9600 too, _then_ getty change port speed to 38400 > confusing modem completely. > > I understand that problem solves by locking port on 38400 > initially, but it isn't nice solution, getty must able > to open port at correct speed setted in its flags. I guess I still don't understand how the modem magically detects the port speed when the port sets the baud before it says anything (like "login: "). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 01:57:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA25879 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:57:27 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA25868 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:57:26 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507230857.BAA25868@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: Please try this new malloc(3) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1058.806461269@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 22, 95 06:01:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 557 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Have you tried linking this into libc? That should give it quite a > work-out since most of our binaries are dynamically linked.. I'm > about to try it myself. > No, I have only tried it in cc,cc1,cpp,ld,as,make because I cannot afford to hose the only machine{I have too much.. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 02:14:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA26496 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 02:14:40 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA26490 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 02:14:37 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA27644; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:01:42 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507230931.TAA27644@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net (Imperial Irrigation District) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:01:42 +0930 (CST) Cc: gurney_j@efn.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507230747.AAA16481@lightlink.satcom.net> from "Imperial Irrigation District" at Jul 23, 95 00:47:30 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 932 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Imperial Irrigation District stands accused of saying: > > > pcnfsd may be started by inetd but I had troubles in that my program > > couldn't find it... so I added pcnfsd to run all the time and it works > > nicely now... > > I experienced the same problem. My FreeBSD 2.0 couldn't start pcnfsd by inetd. > Anybody know why? Hmm, just a thought : did you remove the '#' from the beginning of the line? It's commented out by default. (You _did_ remember to install the pcnfsd package, did you not? It's not installed as part of the base system.) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 02:15:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA26554 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 02:15:05 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA26544 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 02:15:04 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507230915.CAA26544@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: Please try this new malloc(3) To: phk@freefall.cdrom.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 02:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507222206.PAA06101@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jul 22, 95 03:06:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 770 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Let me just clarify a couple of points about this: 1. I didn't expect it to plug into libc as it stands (and jordan has proved this) already. Add it to the individual programs LDADD like this LDADD += /where/you/put/it/malloc.o 2. you get a warning about an inline, don't worry it's not important. 3. The thing I'm interested in at this time is performance, if it doesn't perform I will nnot bother further, if it does, I will try to resolve the libc problems, including the sbrk/brk issue. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 05:35:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA00337 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 05:35:15 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA00323 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 05:35:12 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA01076 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:34:37 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Imperial Irrigation District cc: gurney_j@efn.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:47:30 PDT." <199507230747.AAA16481@lightlink.satcom.net> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:34:36 +0100 Message-ID: <1074.806502876@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199507230747.AAA16481@lightlink.satcom.net>, Imperial Irrigation Di strict writes: >I experienced the same problem. My FreeBSD 2.0 couldn't start pcnfsd by inetd. >Anybody know why? When I started running FreeBSD 2.0, I installed pcnfsd in inetd without troubles... Admitedly my machine always has been and always will be a rather mutant combination of some up-to-date bits and some 2.0-R bits, but there you go :-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 05:44:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA00839 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 05:44:08 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA00833 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 05:44:07 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA08435; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 05:43:35 -0700 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA06704; Sun, 23 Jul 95 08:43:55 EDT Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 08:43:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: missing xdr routines ?? In-Reply-To: <29898.806438293@time.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I may have just opened a real can of worms in my ignorance. The reason I was trying out XDR is that I will soon have a need to exchange float and double data between FreeBSD, Solaris, VMS, AIX, and SGI. The code in src/lib/libc/xdr/xdr_float.c seems to use this approach (when IEEEFP is defined); treating float as two longs. The first test will be between FBSD and the Sun system I am hooked to. I have no experience in VMS, AIX, or SGI. Isn't XDR a Sun protocol that wasn't picked up in the standards battles of the past few years. Or is it one that is generally accepted? Is there an RFC that covers this? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'm using this code I got from pvm2.4.1: > > > > int > > xdr_float(xdrp, fp) > > XDR *xdrp; > > float *fp; > > { > > return xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)fp); > > } > > > > int > > xdr_double(xdrp, dp) > > XDR *xdrp; > > double *dp; > > { > > return xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)dp + 1) > > && xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)dp); > > } > > So what's the concensus, folks? Should we add these? Were they > omitted for a reason? If not, I'll add them in the next 24 hours. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 06:09:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA01674 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 06:09:32 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA01668 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 06:09:30 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id PAA11073 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:09:28 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id PAA27887 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:09:27 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507231309.PAA27887@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: MX records and sendmail To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:09:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507230214.UAA00615@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jul 22, 95 08:14:46 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 778 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Okay, so this should work then. > machineA.domain.net preference = 5, mail exchanger = machineA.domain.net > machineA.domain.net preference = 10, mail exchanger = machineB.domain.net Yes. > Do I need to do anything special to the sendmail.cf on machine B for it to accept > email for machine A, or is the MX record enough? The MX is enough. > Will machine-B attempt to send out the queued email at the -q## > intervals, or is MX queued email handled differently? When it is queued, it will processed every -q## interval as any other mail. Inet providers put them in separate queues in order to avoid une- cessary processing. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 06:10:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA01728 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 06:10:29 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA01722 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 06:10:26 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id PAA11078 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:10:24 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id PAA27909 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:10:23 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507231310.PAA27909@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Poul's new malloc To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:10:22 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <277.806467407@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 22, 95 07:43:27 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 422 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Just to save any of you the trouble - this malloc is NOT plug > compatible with the BSD malloc. If you attempt to replace it you'll > have segfaults galore - I just tried it.. :-) Maybe the addresses returned are not page aligned ? The dlmalloc seems to have the same problem... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 07:38:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA03527 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 07:38:42 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA03521 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 07:38:39 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA21863; Sun, 23 Jul 95 08:38:15 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA05216; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 08:41:51 -0600 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 08:41:51 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9507231441.AA05216@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Toren on Sun, 23 Jul 1995 08:43:54 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: missing xdr routines ?? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Richard" == Richard Toren writes: Richard> I have no experience in VMS, AIX, or SGI. Isn't XDR a Sun Richard> protocol that wasn't picked up in the standards battles Richard> of the past few years. I'm pretty sure it was picked up; NFS is generally available on many UNIX systems; NFS requires RPC; and RPC requires XDR. Richard> Is there an RFC that covers this? See RFC1790 and RFC1014. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA Unix for brains: Wow - you can think of lots of things all at once until your brain runs out of sockets. You can only talk though with people who have brains made by the same vendor. Unfortunately you also never make any sense and have to read manuals to learn how to think. Predominantly a random thinker. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 09:02:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA05304 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:02:52 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA05295 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:02:50 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507231602.JAA05295@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: Poul's new malloc To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507231310.PAA27909@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Jul 23, 95 03:10:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 654 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Just to save any of you the trouble - this malloc is NOT plug > > compatible with the BSD malloc. If you attempt to replace it you'll > > have segfaults galore - I just tried it.. :-) > > Maybe the addresses returned are not page aligned ? The dlmalloc seems to have > the same problem... They are aligned, the entire thing is much more page-oriented than the mallocs I've seen. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 09:09:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA05637 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:09:47 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA05629 for freebsd-hackers; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:09:44 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199507231609.JAA05629@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: SNMP with Perl5 To: freebsd-hackers Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:09:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 680 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, If any of the other FreeBSD Hackers has Perl5 with dynamic loading (Thanks to Ollivier we are supported in Perl5.001m native) I've gotten a Perl5 loadable SNMP module to work. It is a pain and I'm not a good enough makefile person to set one up, but I can upload the compleate directory with my directions somewhere. Gary P.S. I'm not making alot sense right now, but you should get the point. -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 09:18:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA05863 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:18:55 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA05857 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:18:54 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA04048; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:17:10 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:17:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199507231617.MAA04048@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I'd be willing to put a few hundred bucks a year (say, $500) into a support >> contract if it got me what I considered reasonable turn-around times. > >I had about $600 in mind, but we won't quibble about the $100.. :-) > >And now the next (and obvious) question - what would you consider to >be a reasonable turn-around time? :) > Depends on what kind of support. If you're trying to appeal to the general public then the answer is different than for developers. For $600., I'd want to get someone who is likely to know the answer on the phone immediately, if its just a question. Bug fixes are more complicated because they can have varying levels of difficulty. Many times, you have to fix the bug yourself because it only exists in your machine with your MB and your cards. You can't expect a support team to have every machine config available...they may not be able to duplicate the problem if they try. But what I do need to know, immediately, is if other people have had the same problem and if there is a fix.....because I don't want to waste time fixing something thats already been fixed. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 09:41:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA06344 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:41:37 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA06328 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:41:30 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA17954; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:41:15 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:41:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507231641.CAA17954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, nc@ai.net Subject: Re: Problem w/ serial ports going busy. Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I have several cuaa ports set up to handle dial ins. At odd times the >ports will just go busy [i.e. Kermit says, "Sorry, can't open connection: >/dev/cuaa1: Device Busy"] This error occurs in the following cases: 1) /dev/cuaa1 is already open and is in exclusive mode. 2) /dev/ttyd1 is already open. 3) /dev/ttyd1 was opened (in nonblocking mode) while it was and still is being opened (in blocking mode), and your version of FreeBSD has broken `last close' handling in vfs (all versions except 1.1.5+patches are broken here). Case 3) is quite common. It happens whenever there is a getty sleeping in open for /dev/ttyd1 and you do `stty -f /dev/ttyd1'. Vfs counts opens before they succeed. Thus the open count is 1 when getty goes to sleep. After stty opens the device, the device is active and the open count is 2. After stty closes the device, the open count is 1 and the device is still active because vfs only informs device drivers about last closes (open count == 0). >Nothing is running except getty on those ports [and when I kill getty the >device doesn't get freed] and the modems are configured perfectly. This fails to fix case 3) because: a) the driver doesn't clear the busy flag. It has no way of knowing that the nonblocking open isn't still active. b) the device isn't open so exit() doesn't close it. The device close function never gets called. Case 2) can be hard to fix because close() can hang waiting to flush output. >Any ideas [even dirty ways] of forcing the ports un-busy? I really hate >having to reboot the machine to get things working. Run a program that holds /dev/ttyd1 open and kill getty while the port is open. Any terminal program that doesn't wait for carrier should do. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 09:47:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA06573 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:47:10 -0700 Received: from w8hd2.w8hd.org (w8hd2.w8hd.org [198.252.159.25]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA06561 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 09:47:03 -0700 Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.11]) by w8hd2.w8hd.org (8.6.12/w8hd2) with SMTP id MAA01743 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:46:56 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:46:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: voice comms on freebsd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Since I've been 'off the list' for a couple of weeks now, what is the current state of things wrt ports of duplex voice comms for GUS hardware? regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 10:33:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA07902 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:33:23 -0700 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA07894 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:33:19 -0700 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.140) with smtp id ; Sun, 23 Jul 95 19:33 MEST Received: by sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA08274; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:33:12 +0200 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9507231733.AA08274@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: man-pages ... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:33:11 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 833 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hello i think we need some manpages for: * matherr(3) - can somebody who knows how this function works write a page for it (or maybe adapt a sun page) * all the kernel modules in /lkm - i've started by writing a skeleton for ibcs2 and send it to sos to complete it - can you please write one for "your" modules ? t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 10:41:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA08245 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:41:45 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA08235 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:41:37 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA18866; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:38:28 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:38:28 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507231738.DAA18866@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> The problem: initial port speed 9600, getty speed 38400 f.e., >> port opened on carrier at 9600, modem detects it and set >> connection to 9600 too, _then_ getty change port speed to 38400 >> confusing modem completely. >> >> I understand that problem solves by locking port on 38400 >> initially, but it isn't nice solution, getty must able >> to open port at correct speed setted in its flags. There's nothing really wrong with setting the initial speed to 38400 (except 38400 is too slow - why not 115200? :-). Use `stty 115200 I guess I still don't understand how the modem magically detects >the port speed when the port sets the baud before it says anything >(like "login: "). Perhaps getty sometimes writes something before setting the speed. It does quite a let between the open and setting the speed. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 11:27:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA08831 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:27:26 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA08825 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:27:23 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA20269 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:25:24 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 23 Jul 95 22:25:23 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA00128; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:23:56 +0400 To: Terry Lambert Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <9507230836.AA25387@cs.weber.edu> In-Reply-To: <9507230836.AA25387@cs.weber.edu>; from Terry Lambert at Sun, 23 Jul 95 2:36:50 MDT Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:23:56 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1364 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <9507230836.AA25387@cs.weber.edu> Terry Lambert writes: >> >I don't think I quite understand why the previous behaviour was a >> >problem in the first place -- perhas the original poster could explain >> >the rationale for his changes a bit better? >> >> >> The problem: initial port speed 9600, getty speed 38400 f.e., >> port opened on carrier at 9600, modem detects it and set >> connection to 9600 too, _then_ getty change port speed to 38400 >> confusing modem completely. >> >> I understand that problem solves by locking port on 38400 >> initially, but it isn't nice solution, getty must able >> to open port at correct speed setted in its flags. >I guess I still don't understand how the modem magically detects >the port speed when the port sets the baud before it says anything >(like "login: "). I don't know details, but modem is able to determine local interface speed, maybe during initial connect handshake. If modem stays in automatic connect rate selection, it never connects on speed which is greater its local serial interface speed. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 11:46:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA09040 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:46:30 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA09034 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:46:28 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA16639; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:45:56 -0700 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA06980; Sun, 23 Jul 95 14:46:15 EDT Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:46:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: xdr getpos() compile failure Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I added the two functions that treat the float as a long. This worked between FreeBSD and SunOS 4.1.4. (no surprise). Then I tried the: s = xdr_getpos( &xdrs ); function, which failed to compile. The first time was under CC, then under cc. Both times the error was too many args to function. In the xdr.h is a 'getpos' macro that expands to a function call within the XDR structure. u_int (*x_getpostn)();/* returns bytes off from beginning */ Unfortunately, the function definition is defined to take no parameters! This is probably a left over K&R definition. Trying to downshift to K&R, I tried the -traditional switch, but that caused other errors. My solution is to modify /usr/include/rpt/xdr.h. But that only lasts until I install 2.0.5 . Maybe fixed in 2.1? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 12:01:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA09621 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:01:01 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA09615 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:00:57 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA24568 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:57:56 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 23 Jul 95 22:57:56 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA00249; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:55:16 +0400 To: Bruce Evans , terry@cs.weber.edu Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <199507231738.DAA18866@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: <199507231738.DAA18866@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans at Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:38:28 +1000 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:55:16 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 60 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2489 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199507231738.DAA18866@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: >>> The problem: initial port speed 9600, getty speed 38400 f.e., >>> port opened on carrier at 9600, modem detects it and set >>> connection to 9600 too, _then_ getty change port speed to 38400 >>> confusing modem completely. >>> >>> I understand that problem solves by locking port on 38400 >>> initially, but it isn't nice solution, getty must able >>> to open port at correct speed setted in its flags. >There's nothing really wrong with setting the initial speed to 38400 >(except 38400 is too slow - why not 115200? :-). Use >`stty 115200 >I guess I still don't understand how the modem magically detects >>the port speed when the port sets the baud before it says anything >>(like "login: "). >Perhaps getty sometimes writes something before setting the speed. >It does quite a let between the open and setting the speed. I think that getty don't play role here. Most modern modems are able to sense local interface speed somehow, maybe initial connect handshake involved or other tricks, I don't know exactly. I plan to rewrite getty to open device as non-blocked first, set up all termios flags (not speed only can play role on intelligent multipord card), then open device in blocked mode (wait for carrier). But in one moment I realize that while getty waits for carrier, some other dialout application can become active and leave serial speed into unpredictable state. This fact means two things: 1) getty can't work right without setting of initial device, it is mandatory. So getty must open _initial_ device first (for serial lines only, for other lines normal device here), and setup all termios flags on it, then open normal device in blocking mode. 2) We additionly need to restore initial serial settings in sio.c in comhardclose(), i.e. call comparam(com->it_{in,out}) there. I plan to commit proposed changes in near future, if we agree. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 12:25:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA10172 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:25:51 -0700 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA10166 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:25:46 -0700 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA29561 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:23:45 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 23 Jul 95 22:23:45 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA00461; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 23:23:13 +0400 To: Bruce Evans , terry@cs.weber.edu Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <199507231738.DAA18866@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: ; from =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= "aka Andrey A. C." at Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:55:16 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 23:23:12 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 690 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka Andrey A. C. writes: >2) We additionly need to restore >initial serial settings in sio.c in comhardclose(), i.e. call >comparam(com->it_{in,out}) there. Oops, I mean comparam(com->it_in) there, of course. Only callin initial state need to be restored for right initial serial interface speed. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 12:42:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA10717 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:42:24 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA10709 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:42:16 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA20837; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 05:38:50 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 05:38:50 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507231938.FAA20837@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: man-pages ... Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >i think we need some manpages for: >* matherr(3) - can somebody who knows how this function works write a page for >it (or maybe adapt a sun page) I'm surprised to see that we have it. It is currently broken (not even reachable). It allows you to replace the default error handling for the standard math functions by your own error handling. Unfortunately the default error handling forgets the correct (IEEE) return value and there is no reasonable way to recover. Forgetting the return value also breaks normal (IEEEish) error handling, e.g., acos(2.0) is 0 instead of NaN. The default error handling is actually unreachable because lib/msun is compiled with the wrong CFLAGS (should be CFLAGS += -D_POSIX_MODE). Math functions normally never return an error because in FreeBSD math errors normally generate a fatal SIGFPE. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 12:46:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA10913 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:46:50 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA10907 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:46:38 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA20893; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 05:42:40 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 05:42:40 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507231942.FAA20893@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, rpt@miles.sso.loral.com Subject: Re: xdr getpos() compile failure Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >My solution is to modify /usr/include/rpt/xdr.h. But that only lasts >until I install 2.0.5 . Maybe fixed in 2.1? Already fixed in 2.2 (for i386's). Just enable the support already in /usr/src/lib/libc/xdr. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 12:53:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA11167 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:53:38 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11161 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:53:18 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HT826PB3PC004MD9@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 21:07:17 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id VAA02036; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 21:18:25 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 21:18:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Christoph Kukulies Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: from "Kim Culhan" at Jul 23, 95 12:46:56 pm To: kimc@w8hd.org (Kim Culhan) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199507231918.VAA02036@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-type: text Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-length: 6439 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Since I've been 'off the list' for a couple of weeks now, what is the current > state of things wrt ports of duplex voice comms for GUS hardware? vat works with a special sound.v30.x and vmix.0.2 But vat does not work with the 'official' -current. I appended a recipe I picked up from Amancio's multimedia list a while ago. > > regards > kim > > -- > kimc@w8hd.org > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 |From multimedia-owner@rah.star-gate.com Thu Jun 29 22:50:43 1995 |Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA11565 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 1995 22:50:39 +0200 |Received: (from root@localhost) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00979 for multimedia-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:35:58 -0700 |Received: from plains.nodak.edu (plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA00974 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:35:54 -0700 |Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id PAA16991; Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:35:25 -0500 |Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:35:25 -0500 |From: Mark Tinguely |Message-Id: <199506292035.PAA16991@plains.nodak.edu> |To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, multimedia@star-gate.com |Subject: Re: VAT on GUS (long) |Content-Length: 4595 |Sender: owner-multimedia@star-gate.com |Precedence: bulk |Status: OR | |> Does anyone have a general set of instructions for setting up a GUS to work w/ |> VAT? I've tried a variety of things, so far with no luck. If someone who has |> done it successfully would post a quick list I'd be eternally greatful. | |since I got so much help, let me help you. | |1) get the files sound.v30.2.tar.gz and vmix.0.2.tar.gz from | ftp://ftp.cs.uwm.edu/pub/FreeBSD |2) untar the sound.v30.tar.gz into /sys/i386/isa/sound |3) run the shell file /sys/i386/isa/sound/freebsd/makedev.sh |4) remove the "sound" entries in /sys/i386/conf/files.i386 and add the | contents of /sys/i386/isa/sound/freebsd/files.i386.add |5) configure your kernel to for a GUS by adding the line: | device gus0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 11 drq 1 flags 3 vector gusintr | (the flag 3 is important) |6) vmix requires System V shared memory so also add to the configuration file: | options SYSVSHM |7) make install your kernel |8) unbundle the vmix.0.2.tar.gz |9) make and install tk and tcl (if not already done) |10) make vmix |11) copy the README in the vmix sources to ~/.vmix.tcl and edit to | reflect a GUS card | *** start .vmix.tcl *** |# |# from Jim's .vmix.tcl file |# |# For vmix version 0.2 |option add Vmix.recordDev "/dev/dsp1" |option add Vmix.playDev "/dev/dsp" |option add Vmix.recordRate 8122 | *** end .vmix.tcl *** |12) add ~/.sd.rtcp | *** start .sd.tcl *** |# $Header: sd_start.tcl,v 1.4 93/03/24 20:27:43 van Exp $ (LBL) |# |# NOTE: This file is provided for reference purposes. The code |# shown here is compiled into sd. DON'T use this as your |# sd startup file (~/.sd.tcl). |# |# tcl 'hooks' invoked when sd takes some action on a session. |# |# sd will invoke: |# start_session when the user asks to 'open' (start) a session |# create_session just after the user creates a new session |# heard_session when announcement for a session is first heard |# delete_session when the user or a timeout deletes a session |# |# When any of the above are invoked, the global array sd_sess |# contains all the information about the session to be started: |# sd_sess(name) |# sd_sess(description) |# sd_sess(address) |# sd_sess(ttl) |# sd_sess(creator) |# sd_sess(creator_id) |# sd_sess(source_id) |# sd_sess(arrival_time) |# sd_sess(start_time) |# sd_sess(end_time) |# sd_sess(attributes) (list of session attributes) |# sd_sess(media) (list of media names) |# |# For each media name there is an array containing the information |# about that media: |# sd_$media(port) |# sd_$media(conf_id) |# sd_$media(attributes) (list of media attributes) |# |# Media and session attributes are strings of the form "name" or |# "name:value". |# |# Some global state information is available in array sd_priv: |# sd_priv(audio) (= 0 if audio disabled with -a) |# sd_priv(video) (= 0 if video disabled with -v) |# sd_priv(whiteboard) (= 0 if wb disabled with -w) | |proc start_session {} { | global sd_sess sd_priv | | # invoke the appropriate start proc for each of the media | # if such a proc exists and that media is enabled. | foreach m $sd_sess(media) { | if { [llength [info proc start_$m]] && $sd_priv($m) } { | start_$m | } | } |} | |proc start_audio {} { | global sd_sess sd_audio | set audiofmt "" | set packetfmt "-n" | foreach a $sd_audio(attributes) { | case $a { | fmt:* { set audiofmt [string range $a 4 end] } | vt { set packetfmt "-v" } | } | } | set confaddr [format "%s/%s/%s/%s/%s" $sd_sess(address) \ | $sd_audio(port) $sd_audio(conf_id) $audiofmt $sd_sess(ttl)] | | global vat | exec $vat -U /tmp/vatsock -C $sd_sess(name) $packetfmt $confaddr & |} | |proc start_video {} { | global sd_sess sd_video | set videofmt "nv" | foreach a $sd_video(attributes) { | case $a { | fmt:* { set videofmt [string range $a 4 end] } | } | } | case $videofmt { | nv { | global nv | exec $nv -ttl $sd_sess(ttl) $sd_sess(address) \ | $sd_video(port) & | } | ivs { | global ivs | exec $ivs -a -r -T $sd_sess(ttl) \ | -I $sd_sess(address) & | } | } |} | |proc start_whiteboard {} { | global sd_sess sd_whiteboard wb | exec $wb -C $sd_sess(name) -t $sd_sess(ttl) $sd_sess(address)/$sd_whiteboard(port) |# exec $wb -t $sd_sess(ttl) -p $sd_whiteboard(port) \ |# $sd_sess(address) & |} | |proc create_session {} { |} | |proc heard_session {} { |} | |proc delete_session {} { |} | |# set up media option menus for new session window. | |set sd_menu(audio) "fmt: pcm idvi gsm lpc4\nvt" |set sd_menu(video) "fmt: nv ivs" | |# set up the command names | |set vat vat |set nv nv |set ivs ivs |set wb wb | *** end .sd.tcl *** |13) run vmix |14) enable the Record and Play buttons |15) run sd/vat normally | From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 13:19:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA11684 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:19:22 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA11676 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:19:09 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA11921; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:18:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199507232018.NAA11921@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:46:56 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:18:49 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Kim Culhan said: > > Since I've been 'off the list' for a couple of weeks now, what is the curren t > state of things wrt ports of duplex voice comms for GUS hardware? > Howdy, I am developing "bat", freeBsd Audio Tool. Is going to function a lot like vat. So far, I have silence detection from the nevot distribution, gsm encoding, and raw audio, point to point comm, and ip multicast support. bat does not do any volume or mic selection thats done with vmix however unlike the current vat / vmix interface bat talks straight to the sound driver. Over a short period it will evolve into a net asnwering machine with sound slots or mailboxes, speed dial, ability to record or play back a sound stream in a session, bracketed sound streams to allow comm between distant sites. I will probably make an alpha release to the multimedia group in about a day or so . I just have to add a graphical interface to some of the options that I implemented -- gsm data compression selection or raw audio, silenced detection selection, etc... A high-pitch shriek to the group :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 13:35:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA12215 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:35:13 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA12203 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:35:06 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA21623; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 06:28:08 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 06:28:08 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507232028.GAA21623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>There's nothing really wrong with setting the initial speed to 38400 >>(except 38400 is too slow - why not 115200? :-). Use >>`stty 115200 Bruce, as I already says, I understand it, moreover, all ports >works in that way on my site, but I was thinking that getty must be able >to work right _without_ locked/initial devices settings too (see below). It's not nice to have to specify the speed in more than one place, but I regard that as a bug in getty or gettytab. getty thinks it owns the line, but it doesn't if the dialout devices are used. gettytab is unsuitable for general use. The database for the initial settings is best maintained by the driver. We already have good access methods, e.g., `stty -g' :-). >>>I guess I still don't understand how the modem magically detects >>>the port speed when the port sets the baud before it says anything >>>(like "login: "). >>Perhaps getty sometimes writes something before setting the speed. >>It does quite a let between the open and setting the speed. >I think that getty don't play role here. Most modern modems are >able to sense local interface speed somehow, maybe initial >connect handshake involved or other tricks, I don't know >exactly. It can't possibly depend on anything except signals on its RX line, and getty is in complete control of those (unless there are bugs). I'm assuming an external modem. For an internal modem emulating a 16x50, the current 16x50 setting should apply. >1) getty can't work right without setting >of initial device, it is mandatory. >So getty must open _initial_ device first (for serial lines only, >for other lines normal device here), >and setup all termios flags on it, then open normal >device in blocking mode. I don't like this. getty would also have to open the _lock_ device to remove any locks (or perhaps to skip clobbering the initial state if it is locked). The initial and lock devices are supposed to be unknown to ordinary applications so that bugs in the applications can be worked around and so that the applications don't become more unportable. >2) We additionly need to restore >initial serial settings in sio.c in comhardclose(), i.e. call >comparam(com->it_{in,out}) there. >I plan to commit proposed changes in near future, if we agree. I hope this is not necessary. Wait until I have committed lots of other tty changes anyway. There are 5 currently h/w tty drivers and at least 3 more are scheduled, and only 2 of them even support initial state devices :-(. The others normally inherit the speed from the previous open, so it is more likely to be correct if only getty uses the line, but certain to be incorrect (9600) for the first open and easier to mess up if callout devices are supported. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 14:22:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA13725 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:22:00 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA13717 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:21:55 -0700 Received: from Jupiter.mcs.net (Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.89]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18447; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:21:53 -0500 Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA15548; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:21:23 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507232121.QAA15548@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? To: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:21:23 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507231617.MAA04048@mail.htp.com> from "dennis" at Jul 23, 95 12:17:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1589 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >> I'd be willing to put a few hundred bucks a year (say, $500) into a support > >> contract if it got me what I considered reasonable turn-around times. > > > >I had about $600 in mind, but we won't quibble about the $100.. :-) > > > >And now the next (and obvious) question - what would you consider to > >be a reasonable turn-around time? :) > > > Depends on what kind of support. If you're trying to appeal to the general > public then the answer is different than for developers. For $600., I'd want > to get someone who is likely to know the answer on the phone immediately, if > its just a question. Bug fixes are more complicated because they can have > varying levels of difficulty. Many times, you have to fix the bug yourself > because it only exists in your machine with your MB and your cards. You > can't expect a support team to have every machine config available...they > may not be able to duplicate the problem if they try. But what I do need to > know, immediately, is if other people have had the same problem and if there > is a fix.....because I don't want to waste time fixing something thats > already been fixed. > > db I think that's a reasonable way to look at it, yes. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 14:25:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA14006 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:25:36 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA13996 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:25:30 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA00585 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:21:33 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 24 Jul 95 01:21:32 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA01229; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:20:00 +0400 To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <199507232028.GAA21623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: <199507232028.GAA21623@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans at Mon, 24 Jul 1995 06:28:08 +1000 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:20:00 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 60 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2774 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199507232028.GAA21623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: >It's not nice to have to specify the speed in more than one place, but >I regard that as a bug in getty or gettytab. getty thinks it owns the >line, but it doesn't if the dialout devices are used. gettytab is >unsuitable for general use. The database for the initial settings is >best maintained by the driver. We already have good access methods, >e.g., `stty -g' :-). >I don't like this. getty would also have to open the _lock_ device >to remove any locks (or perhaps to skip clobbering the initial state >if it is locked). The initial and lock devices are supposed to be >unknown to ordinary applications so that bugs in the applications >can be worked around and so that the applications don't become more >unportable. I agree with it too, it is just different strategy. My proposal #1 from previous message replaces with following one: 1) Initial devices should be documented in getty/gettytab manpages as mandatory to obtain working serial getty. (I can't do it by myself due to my english). My proposal #2 from previous message _still_active_: >>2) We additionly need to restore >>initial serial settings in sio.c in comhardclose(), i.e. call >>comparam(com->it_in) there. >>I think that getty don't play role here. Most modern modems are >>able to sense local interface speed somehow, maybe initial >>connect handshake involved or other tricks, I don't know >>exactly. >It can't possibly depend on anything except signals on its RX line, and >getty is in complete control of those (unless there are bugs). I'm >assuming an external modem. For an internal modem emulating a 16x50, >the current 16x50 setting should apply. I mean external modem too. So only initial connect handshake left for speed determination (getty not control it at all :-) >I hope this is not necessary. Wait until I have committed lots of other >tty changes anyway. There are 5 currently h/w tty drivers and at least >3 more are scheduled, and only 2 of them even support initial state >devices :-(. The others normally inherit the speed from the previous >open, so it is more likely to be correct if only getty uses the line, >but certain to be incorrect (9600) for the first open and easier to mess >up if callout devices are supported. Right now I not plan to make any tty or getty changes, just one neccessary change in comhardclose(): add comparam(com->it_in) there, do you agree with that? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 14:42:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA14426 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:42:46 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA14419 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:42:41 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA02296 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:37:58 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 24 Jul 95 01:37:57 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA01314; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:37:43 +0400 To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <199507232028.GAA21623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: <199507232028.GAA21623@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans at Mon, 24 Jul 1995 06:28:08 +1000 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:37:42 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1272 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199507232028.GAA21623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: >It can't possibly depend on anything except signals on its RX line, and >getty is in complete control of those (unless there are bugs). I'm >assuming an external modem. For an internal modem emulating a 16x50, >the current 16x50 setting should apply. Ok, I finaly understand what you say now :-) So, described situation is possible, only when some dialout application previously send chars at different speed and modem remember last speed. So, my comhardclose() fix with comparam(com->it_in) isn't enough, because driver need to send AAAT\r command to modem after it additionly :-( Getty becomes too modem specific after it. It need to send AAAT\r initially too to bring modem to current getty speed first time :-( So, any dialout program which change serial speed becomes getty-killer. We need to document locked devices to getty/gettytab manpage too as mandatory to not allow speed changes. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 15:03:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA15272 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:03:11 -0700 Received: from w8hd2.w8hd.org (w8hd2.w8hd.org [198.252.159.25]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA15265 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:03:04 -0700 Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.11]) by w8hd2.w8hd.org (8.6.12/w8hd2) with SMTP id SAA02071 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:02:48 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:02:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-Reply-To: <199507232018.NAA11921@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thats great Amancio! kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 15:21:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA15754 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:21:19 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA15741 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:21:11 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55347>; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:19:35 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA07497; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:42:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199507221342.PAA07497@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Bryan O'Sullivan" cc: tony@thing.sunquest.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 02:37:47 +0200." <9507220037.AA19299@plokta.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:42:49 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ref. > Cygnus is different in one moderately important regard: they have the > GPL to wave at people who don't want the work Cygnus does on software > like gdb distributed to the world. I suggest you reread the GPL, I recall no mandate to force publish work. Maybe we need a new list to handle all the periodic legal/moral/copyright/commercial-ethics/bs threads that we all (self included) seem to respond to when not busy, but that swamp us other times. Think how nice it would be to be able to echo "unsubscribe philosopy `echo $EMAIL`" | mail majordomo@freebsd.org when we're too busy for all that stuff :-) Julian S jhs@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 15:21:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA15805 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:21:58 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA15796 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:21:54 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA23750; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:18:28 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:18:28 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507232218.IAA23750@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Ok, I finaly understand what you say now :-) >So, described situation is possible, only when some dialout application >previously send chars at different speed and modem remember >last speed. So, my comhardclose() fix with comparam(com->it_in) >isn't enough, because driver need to send AAAT\r command to modem >after it additionly :-( It might be enough to send a single character while carrier is down The modem has to determine the speed before it can read an `A' :-). Are your extra A's to help it do this?. What determines the speed after the following sequence: 1) turn on modem 2) open port (don't write) 3) wait for carrier 4) write to port ? The Linux driver has (had?) some optional support to help getty handle this. After the last close of cuaa, sleeping opens of ttyd return EAGAIN. This gives getty a chance to send the AT command. >Getty becomes too modem specific after it. Yes :-(. >So, any dialout program which change serial speed becomes >getty-killer. We need to document locked devices to getty/gettytab >manpage too as mandatory to not allow speed changes. The modem is supposed to reset itself when DTR is dropped. We don't document this but it should be the hardware default. It also helps for the modem to be locked at the same speed as getty will use, or at least default to that speed after it resets. If the modem can't do this then the dialout user had better leave it in a good state. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 15:22:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA15866 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:22:44 -0700 Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA15860 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:22:42 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id ac18754; 23 Jul 95 23:22 +0100 Received: from wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa06553; 23 Jul 95 23:22 +0100 Received: from watrem.zipmail.co.uk by wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk id aa14016; 23 Jul 95 23:22 BST Received: by watrem.zipmail.co.uk with Microsoft Mail id <01BA5953.2849E900@watrem.zipmail.co.uk>; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 23:22:19 +-100 Message-ID: <01BA5953.2849E900@watrem.zipmail.co.uk> From: Wayne Taylor To: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Multi serial port drivers Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:39:30 +-100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Can you tell me what multi serial port drivers are currently being worked on. I would like to get a 16 port card connected to my FBSD system and would be willing to be a beta tester. Thanks Wayne Taylor From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 15:33:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA16318 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:33:33 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA16312 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:33:30 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55304>; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:33:08 +0200 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA15930 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:33:05 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:33:05 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199507232233.AAA15930@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: No manual entry for sysinstall Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk May I suggest someone (jkh or another release engineer ?) create a short file that will satisfy the command `man sysinstall` ? Probably just a simple reference to where the real install doc files are would be a great advance on "No manual entry for sysinstall" Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 16:20:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA18884 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:20:33 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA18875 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:20:32 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03337; Sun, 23 Jul 95 17:13:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507232313.AA03337@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 17:12:59 MDT Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199507231738.DAA18866@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 24, 95 03:38:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I guess I still don't understand how the modem magically detects > >the port speed when the port sets the baud before it says anything > >(like "login: "). > > Perhaps getty sometimes writes something before setting the speed. > It does quite a let between the open and setting the speed. If it does, then it's broken. And that's what should be fixed. >From a cusory scan of the code, I'd say it's not broken. Maybe his modem is sending crap before raising DCD, and it's getting echoed before a read is issued by getty? This would be a driver bug. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 16:24:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA19012 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:24:00 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA19006 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:23:58 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03393; Sun, 23 Jul 95 17:16:33 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507232316.AA03393@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 17:16:32 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka" at Jul 23, 95 10:23:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I guess I still don't understand how the modem magically detects > >the port speed when the port sets the baud before it says anything > >(like "login: "). > > I don't know details, but modem is able to determine local > interface speed, maybe during initial connect handshake. > If modem stays in automatic connect rate selection, it never > connects on speed which is greater its local serial interface speed. Well, know the details before changing the code. 8-). The only *possible* way this cruft would be necessary is if the modem keeps DCD asserted, ignores DTR, or there is a driver error. Or the modem implements the RS232 external clock signal... and you can fix that by not passing the signal on the cable. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 16:24:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA19042 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:24:10 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA19036 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:24:09 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA06632; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:18:51 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:18:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199507232318.TAA06632@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Heikki Suonsivu From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu writes...... > helping to create a competitor. As a commercial vendor its the only way to > do things. > >Cyclades does quite well with their serial boards, and they have all >information and drivers wide open. To my knowledge there are other wendors >offering products based on the same chip cyclades uses. > >When I was selecting the hardware to go in our terminal servers, I didn't >check out the ads. I only checked out the source code to see if it was >available and running. > >Of course, I'm not saying that you should change your policy, just that you >might be making a mistake. But probably you can do quite well without my >money, anyway :-) First of all you're only talking about a board driver, not a protocol suite. There's nothing proprietary about board drivers, and generally anyone with the right information can write one. There's only a handful of frame relay implementations in the world (even less good ones), and it takes very expensive, experienced people with expensive equipment to write them. For a company to spend time and money on the development process, and then hand over the resulting technology to our competitors (who can then port the product without the same costs) is not feasable. We also charge more for our products because of our technological advantage.....if others have the same technology then we have to lower our prices to compete with our own technology. We've considered releasing source to our board drivers (without X.25, FR, or Sync PPP) and selling a bare board with no software support. We just can't believe that any serious business is going to use public domain software over a tested, supported commercial product to save a couple hundred dollars. When you're paying a couple hundred bucks a month for a line you don't want to take a chance. dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 16:33:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA19301 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:33:56 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA19295 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:33:54 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03440; Sun, 23 Jul 95 17:24:45 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507232324.AA03440@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 17:24:44 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka" at Jul 23, 95 10:55:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think that getty don't play role here. Most modern modems are > able to sense local interface speed somehow, maybe initial > connect handshake involved or other tricks, I don't know > exactly. This is critically bogus unless you cn back this up with documentation on external clock signal support. The modem must interact with the computer to sense the port speed. Period. If getty is spitting crap out before setting the port speed, then that is a getty problem, and should be fixed. But anything else (with the possible exception of waiting on RI instead of DCD and timing out on a baud rate non-read) *will* break bidirectional use of the port *and*should*not*be*allowed*. > I plan to rewrite getty to open device > as non-blocked first, set up all termios flags (not speed only > can play role on intelligent multipord card), then open > device in blocked mode (wait for carrier). But in one moment > I realize that while getty waits for carrier, some other > dialout application can become active and leave serial speed > into unpredictable state. It's also broken because the wait for DCD on the blocking open is only in effect when the open count is 0. After one open as a non-blocking open, the reference count is one, and subsequent opens are not *supposed* to block. So what you want to do *will not work* anyway. You need to find out why the modem believes the port is being locked to 9600, why the modem can't be locked to a higher rate anyway instead of doing the "auto-sense" BS, how the "auto-sense" you postulate could possibly be happeneing (if you're right), and whether the getty incorrectly spits crap at the port before setting the baud, and whether the port incorrectly fails to discard input prior to DCD coming high. > I plan to commit proposed changes in near future, if we agree. PLEASE think this through in terms of the finite state automatons for the modem, getty, and the serial driver. You are engaged in protocol modifications! Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 16:41:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA19501 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:41:16 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA19494 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:41:15 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03511; Sun, 23 Jul 95 17:33:48 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507232333.AA03511@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 17:33:47 MDT Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199507232028.GAA21623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 24, 95 06:28:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It's not nice to have to specify the speed in more than one place, but > I regard that as a bug in getty or gettytab. getty thinks it owns the > line, but it doesn't if the dialout devices are used. gettytab is > unsuitable for general use. The database for the initial settings is > best maintained by the driver. We already have good access methods, > e.g., `stty -g' :-). The port state information for incoming and outgoing communications on a given port should be maintained *seperately* for the tty devices accessing the port. Then this wouldn't be a problem. The only thing the drivers should have in common is interfaces to the interlock protocol to prevent simultaneous use. One of the requirements of port allocation within the context of the locking forotocol for bidirectional use is the instantiation of the tty setting for the port obtaining open access oto the physical hardware. The same thing goes for a "transparent printer" driver, if one were to be created. > >I think that getty don't play role here. Most modern modems are > >able to sense local interface speed somehow, maybe initial > >connect handshake involved or other tricks, I don't know > >exactly. > > It can't possibly depend on anything except signals on its RX line, and > getty is in complete control of those (unless there are bugs). I'm > assuming an external modem. For an internal modem emulating a 16x50, > the current 16x50 setting should apply. I agree 100% here. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 16:53:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA19736 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:53:19 -0700 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA19729 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:53:14 -0700 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA14805 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:45:39 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 24 Jul 95 02:45:39 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id DAA01871; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:41:49 +0400 To: bde@zeta.org.AU, terry@cs.weber.edu Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <199507232218.IAA23750@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: <199507232218.IAA23750@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans at Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:18:28 +1000 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:41:49 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2121 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199507232218.IAA23750@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: >>Ok, I finaly understand what you say now :-) >>So, described situation is possible, only when some dialout application >>previously send chars at different speed and modem remember >>last speed. So, my comhardclose() fix with comparam(com->it_in) >>isn't enough, because driver need to send AAAT\r command to modem >>after it additionly :-( >It might be enough to send a single character while carrier is down >The modem has to determine the speed before it can read an `A' :-). >Are your extra A's to help it do this?. Some modem can determine before, some not. Some modem determine speed only when AT-command issued, not for any char. Just experimenting with Microcom: 3 A always enough to determine changed speed (A appearse), 2 A is enough in 90% cases, >What determines the speed >after the following sequence: > 1) turn on modem > 2) open port (don't write) > 3) wait for carrier > 4) write to port ? It depends on what modem does on power on, if it does ATZ it will be ATZ-configured speed, or last speed in other case. >The Linux driver has (had?) some optional support to help getty handle >this. After the last close of cuaa, sleeping opens of ttyd return >EAGAIN. This gives getty a chance to send the AT command. Does EAGAIN allowed on open by POSIX? >>So, any dialout program which change serial speed becomes >>getty-killer. We need to document locked devices to getty/gettytab >>manpage too as mandatory to not allow speed changes. >The modem is supposed to reset itself when DTR is dropped. We >don't document this but it should be the hardware default. It It isn't default modem setting in 100% modems which I see. We should document it somewhere among with disabling CONNECT string in answering mode. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 17:07:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA20489 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:07:38 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA20483 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:07:32 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA26520; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:59:35 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:59:35 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507232359.JAA26520@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Maybe his modem is sending crap before raising DCD, and it's getting >echoed before a read is issued by getty? This would be a driver >bug. The driver is careful not to enable ECHO by default (it mostly ignores the stupid defaults in . getty could cause the problem by setting ECHO before setting the speed. I don't think it does, although it takes 2 ioctls to set things. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 17:24:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA20899 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:24:14 -0700 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA20858 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:24:01 -0700 Received: from localhost.cs.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.1.123]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA08913; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:14:39 +0200 Received: (from w@localhost) by localhost (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA00643; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:14:40 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:14:40 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199507230914.LAA00643@localhost> To: "Julian Stacey " Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), aturetta@stylo.italia.com (Angelo Turetta), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199507142015.WAA13566@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <199507141111.NAA04791@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199507142015.WAA13566@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Replyt-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Julian Stacey writes: > > > whatis `ls -1 /usr/share/man/man1/??.1* | sed -e 's/.*[/]//' -e 's/\.1.*//'` > It's a syntax err ! > sed: 1: "s/.*[/]//": RE error: brackets ([ ]) not balanced > > didnt work in bash csh sh tcsh, or a file invocation for me, > not that it matters ;-) > Julian S 4.4BSD sed is broken. You must quote '/'in brackets, eg. sed -e 's/.*[\/]//' Better solution: $ grep '^..(1)' /usr/share/man/whatis Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 17:25:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA20969 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:25:08 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA20963 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:25:07 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA01193; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:29:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:29:23 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199507240029.RAA01193@lightlink.satcom.net> To: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Cc: gurney_j@efn.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Yes, I did install the pcnfsd package. Yes, I also remove the '#' from the beginning of the line. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 17:33:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA21182 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:33:16 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21175 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:33:03 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA27013; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:23:39 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:23:39 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507240023.KAA27013@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >It's also broken because the wait for DCD on the blocking open is >only in effect when the open count is 0. After one open as a >non-blocking open, the reference count is one, and subsequent opens >are not *supposed* to block. I disagree. POSIX requires it to block. Not blocking would cause stupid behaviour such as `stty -f /dev/ttyd0' unblocking any getty sleeping in open for /dev/ttyd0. Once the open has completed it is hard to recover. 1.1.5 fiddles with the open count to make blocking work. There can be any number of processes sleeping in open() and any number of processes with it open (having opened it in nonblocking mode). 2.x doesn't fiddle with the open count yet, so blocking doesn't work right if there is one or more nonblocking opens such as the `stty -f' mentioned above. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 17:37:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA21351 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:37:02 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21345 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 17:36:57 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA27257; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:33:11 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:33:11 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507240033.KAA27257@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> It's not nice to have to specify the speed in more than one place, but >> I regard that as a bug in getty or gettytab. getty thinks it owns the >> ... >The port state information for incoming and outgoing communications >on a given port should be maintained *seperately* for the tty devices >accessing the port. Then this wouldn't be a problem. It is maintained separately. Read the man page. We're talking about the problem that changes to the defaults for initial state can be specified in either /etc/rc.serial or in /etc/gettytab, and it must be specified in /etc/gettytab because getty doesn't trust the defaults and it may want to autobaud, and setting it in /etc/rc.serial might fix the original problem. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 18:00:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA21803 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:00:44 -0700 Received: from hk.super.net (hk.super.net [202.14.67.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA21797 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:00:41 -0700 Received: from is1.hk.super.net by hk.super.net with SMTP id AA19596 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:00:35 +0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:00:34 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Hackers Subject: accounting Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I seem to remember that accounting is broken in 2.0.5R. Is anyone working on that? I might try and fix it if no one is working on it. I now have BSDI to compare the results with. jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 18:01:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA21852 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:01:52 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA21846 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:01:50 -0700 Received: from nike (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA02199; Sun, 23 Jul 95 18:01:37 PDT Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@nike To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-Reply-To: <199507220759.AAA14896@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > does that mean that I should tell you guys about my addion of the xfs, > > xdm, pcnfsd, and bootp stuff to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig? I added them in > > the tradion of the other options... > > Yes please, context or uni diffs are nice :-). could someone send me a copy of /etc/rc from 2.0.5-RELEASE? I didn't make a backup copy... and I don't have 2.0.5-RELEASE on my system any more (I have the -SNAP)... would the rc from the snap do? > bootp does need to go in, so that looks like the only real one > you have for me :-). And it is one I some how still have missing from > my current work :-( ok... I have moved xfs, xdm, and pcnfsd to rc.local.. and it fixed my problem with having to run ldconfig in /etc/rc to get the libaries loaded for xfs and xdm... also... I would be willing to modify the /etc/rc script to allow a variable call external (or something like that) that would list the programs that you have added (to replace local).. and then have two variables program and program_path... and as long as ${program_path}program existed and ${program} != NO, it would run the program with the variables defines in program... sound good? John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 18:39:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA22855 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:39:42 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA22849 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:39:40 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA17277; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:39:36 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507240139.SAA17277@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: gurney_j@efn.org (John-Mark Gurney) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Jul 23, 95 06:10:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1920 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > does that mean that I should tell you guys about my addion of the xfs, > > > xdm, pcnfsd, and bootp stuff to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig? I added them in > > > the tradion of the other options... > > > > Yes please, context or uni diffs are nice :-). > > could someone send me a copy of /etc/rc from 2.0.5-RELEASE? I didn't > make a backup copy... and I don't have 2.0.5-RELEASE on my system any > more (I have the -SNAP)... would the rc from the snap do? You should probably do a diff relative to -current, that is an easy file to get via ftp, and an easy file for me to work from with your changes. > > bootp does need to go in, so that looks like the only real one > > you have for me :-). And it is one I some how still have missing from > > my current work :-( > > ok... I have moved xfs, xdm, and pcnfsd to rc.local.. and it fixed my > problem with having to run ldconfig in /etc/rc to get the libaries loaded > for xfs and xdm... :-) > also... I would be willing to modify the /etc/rc script to allow a > variable call external (or something like that) that would list the > programs that you have added (to replace local).. and then have two > variables program and program_path... and as long as > ${program_path}program existed and ${program} != NO, it would run the > program with the variables defines in program... sound good? I am not quite sure what you are getting at here, perhaps a sample chunk of code would show me just what you mean. Some how I get the feeling it is over kill, but perhaps not. > John-Mark > > gurney_j@efn.org > Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Humm.. where are you located? I am in Gresham, Oregon, just outside of Portland. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 18:43:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA23076 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:43:43 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA23070 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:43:35 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA29063; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:39:30 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:39:30 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507240139.LAA29063@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, w@cs.tu-berlin.de Subject: Re: your mail Cc: aturetta@stylo.italia.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >4.4BSD sed is broken. You must quote '/'in brackets, >eg. sed -e 's/.*[\/]//' Is this portable? I thought that '\' isn't special in brackets. It isn't needed even to quote ']' - you can put the ']' first so that it isn't interpreted as the end of the brackets: echo ']' | sed 's/[]]/:-(/' Quoting of ']' doesn't work: echo '\]' | sed 's/[\]]/:-(/ # range is '\', last ']' is literal Ranges (with a '-') ending with a ']' don't seem to be possible. This braindamage seems to be inherited from the original ed. Quotes work if and only if they are necessary, except for bugs when it wasn't obvious when they are necessary :-). This philosophy seems to be implemented in FreeBSD sed: echo '\;' | sed 's/[\;]/:-(/g' # quote in brackets not nec., so literal echo '\/' | sed 's/[\/]/:-(/g' # bug: quote not nec., but not literal Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 19:04:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA24158 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:04:00 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24152 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:03:54 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14117 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:03:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199507240203.TAA14117@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: is gnu's autoconfigure broken in -current? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:03:49 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I tried to port a few programs which use gnu's configure script and they no longer work. For instance, tk3.6: {hasty} ./configure euid is: 1000 egid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 ruid is: 1000 rgid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 euid is: 1000 egid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 ruid is: 1000 rgid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 euid is: 1000 egid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 ruid is: 1000 rgid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 euid is: 1000 egid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 ruid is: 1000 rgid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 euid is: 1000 egid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 ruid is: 1000 rgid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 euid is: 1000 egid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 ruid is: 1000 rgid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 euid is: 1000 egid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 ruid is: 1000 rgid is: 1000 5 0 1000 1000 configure: Can not find sources in `.' or `..'. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 19:05:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA24277 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:05:26 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24263 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:05:20 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA19670 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:04:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA12564; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:06:01 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507240206.IAA12564@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: lint To: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Graichen) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:06:01 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507211342.AA06068@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de> from "Thomas Graichen" at Jul 21, 95 03:42:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 279 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > how about including the lint(1) from NetBSD into FreeBSD too (... would avoid > the "is there a lint for FreeBSD" questions) - t IMHO it will be great! Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 19:28:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA24855 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:28:04 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA24849 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:28:01 -0700 Received: from nike (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA06733; Sun, 23 Jul 95 19:27:46 PDT Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:36:17 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@nike To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-Reply-To: <199507240139.SAA17277@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Jul 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > > does that mean that I should tell you guys about my addion of the xfs, > > > > xdm, pcnfsd, and bootp stuff to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig? I added them in > > > > the tradion of the other options... > > > > > > Yes please, context or uni diffs are nice :-). > > > > could someone send me a copy of /etc/rc from 2.0.5-RELEASE? I didn't > > make a backup copy... and I don't have 2.0.5-RELEASE on my system any > > more (I have the -SNAP)... would the rc from the snap do? > > You should probably do a diff relative to -current, that is an easy > file to get via ftp, and an easy file for me to work from with your > changes. ok... here comes the patch for /etc/rc: *** rc.old Sun Jul 23 19:11:45 1995 --- rc Sun Jul 23 19:18:08 1995 *************** *** 228,233 **** --- 228,237 ---- (sleep 20; /usr/sbin/kadmind -n >/dev/null 2>&1 &) & fi + if [ "X${bootpd}" != X"NO" ]; then + echo -n ' bootpd'; /usr/libexec/bootpd ${bootpd} + fi + echo -n ' inetd'; inetd echo '.' and now the patch for /etc/sysconfig (if needed): *** sysconfig.old Sun Jul 23 19:21:16 1995 --- sysconfig Sun Jul 23 19:21:19 1995 *************** *** 143,148 **** --- 143,152 ---- # For most hosts, flags should be "-b /etc/namedb/named.boot" namedflags="NO" + # Set to appropriate flags for bootpd, if you wish to run it, + # Typical flags might be "/etc/bootptab" + bootpdflags="NO" + # Set to YES if you want to run the X-10 power controller daemon xtend=NO > > > bootp does need to go in, so that looks like the only real one > > > you have for me :-). And it is one I some how still have missing from > > > my current work :-( > > > > ok... I have moved xfs, xdm, and pcnfsd to rc.local.. and it fixed my > > problem with having to run ldconfig in /etc/rc to get the libaries loaded > > for xfs and xdm... > > :-) > > > also... I would be willing to modify the /etc/rc script to allow a > > variable call external (or something like that) that would list the > > programs that you have added (to replace local).. and then have two > > variables program and program_path... and as long as > > ${program_path}program existed and ${program} != NO, it would run the > > program with the variables defines in program... sound good? > > I am not quite sure what you are getting at here, perhaps a sample chunk > of code would show me just what you mean. Some how I get the feeling > it is over kill, but perhaps not. well... I think that this explication would be easier... basicly how the routes are handled... but for the daemons loaded in rc.local (yours you configure)... > > > John-Mark > > > > gurney_j@efn.org > > Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) > > Humm.. where are you located? I am in Gresham, Oregon, just outside of > Portland. down in Eugene... you guys are luck in that you will be able to keep the 503 area code... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 19:30:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA24979 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:30:35 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24973 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:30:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA12784; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:31:31 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507240231.IAA12784@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:31:30 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka" at Jul 23, 95 10:39:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 766 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The problem: initial port speed 9600, getty speed 38400 f.e., > port opened on carrier at 9600, modem detects it and set > connection to 9600 too, _then_ getty change port speed to 38400 > confusing modem completely. > > I understand that problem solves by locking port on 38400 > initially, but it isn't nice solution, getty must able > to open port at correct speed setted in its flags. Cua* is assumed to be used for all outgouing calls, tty* is assumed to be used for all incoming calls and these devices are interlocking. So IMHO it solves the problem you pointed to in the easiest way. Or may be I didn't understand the problem ? Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 19:39:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA25308 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:39:58 -0700 Received: from victor.innovus.com (victor.innovus.com [192.75.186.54]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA25300 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:39:54 -0700 Received: (from martin@localhost) by victor.innovus.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA17452; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:54:10 -0400 From: Martin Renters Message-Id: <199507240254.WAA17452@victor.innovus.com> Subject: Re: Multi serial port drivers To: wayne@zipmail.co.uk (Wayne Taylor) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <01BA5953.2849E900@watrem.zipmail.co.uk> from "Wayne Taylor" at Jul 23, 95 10:39:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 334 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi > > Can you tell me what multi serial port drivers are currently being worked on. > I would like to get a 16 port card connected to my FBSD system and would > be willing to be a beta tester. I've got an ARNET SmartPort Plus 24 that I've writing a driver for in my spare time. I don't know when it will be done though. Martin From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 19:46:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA25566 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:46:06 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA25560 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 19:45:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA13044; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:47:23 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507240247.IAA13044@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Multi serial port drivers To: wayne@zipmail.co.uk (Wayne Taylor) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:47:22 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <01BA5953.2849E900@watrem.zipmail.co.uk> from "Wayne Taylor" at Jul 23, 95 10:39:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 567 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Can you tell me what multi serial port drivers are currently being worked on. I would like to get a 16 port card connected to my FBSD system and would be willing to be a beta tester. There is an alpha version of the Digiboard driver. It's known to work mostly OK for PC/Xi series and possibly PC/Xe series. The support for PC/Xe with small memory window is under debugging now. It is at: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/incoming/digi-a.tgz Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 20:06:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA26295 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 20:06:28 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA26289 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 20:06:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA13278; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:01:51 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507240301.JAA13278@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:01:50 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <9507232324.AA03440@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 23, 95 05:24:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1629 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I think that getty don't play role here. Most modern modems are > > able to sense local interface speed somehow, maybe initial > > connect handshake involved or other tricks, I don't know > > exactly. > > This is critically bogus unless you cn back this up with documentation > on external clock signal support. > > The modem must interact with the computer to sense the port speed. ^^^^^^^^ And do this in _command_ mode. > Period. > > If getty is spitting crap out before setting the port speed, then that > is a getty problem, and should be fixed. With getty modem _never_ enters the command mode. IMO the sequence of cations for getty is: 1. Initial state: DTR is off, modem ignores everything 2. Getty opens the port (more accurately, it calls open() and sleeps until DCD is detected), DTR rises, modem starts to wait for the incoming calls. Modem should be set up to reset to non-volatile memory settings at DTR off-to-on transition. These settings have to include echo off, no reports on carrier detect and fixed DCE-to-DTE rate. 3. Modem gets carrier, DCD rises, modem enters the data mode, getty finishes its open() call and begins to work. I see absolutely no place in this sequence where modem should get any command. The only problam may be if getty opens the port with ONDELAY and then puts some text into it before setting the speed. If so, IMHO it's a wrong behavior that should be fixed. If not, everything should go fine without any changes. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 22:52:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA02580 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:52:50 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA02571 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:52:46 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA04646 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:25:07 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA00544; 23 Jul 95 14:43:24 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA00535 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:43:23 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:43:23 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507231943.OAA00535@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make weirdness References: <199507131123.EAA05266@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199507131123.EAA05266@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>, Satoshi Asami wrote: > * ....and overlooked that it was not quite correct shell syntax (do should not > * be followed by a semicolon). I wonder why the old make let it pass though. >So, why didn't the old sh complain? Of course I dunno. The old sh didn't complain because an empty statement is a perfectly valid statement. I did some checking: it looks like complaining about this syntax is a System-V-ism. IMHO ignoring empty statements is the right thing to do, from a language perspective. 1.1.5.1: $ ; ; ; ; ; $ BSDI: $ ; ; ; ; ; $ 2.0.5 (freefall): $ ; ; ; ; ; Syntax error: ";" unexpected OSF/1 (Digital UNIX): $ ; ; ; ; ; $ SunOS 4.1.3: $ ; ; ; ; ; syntax error: `newline or ;' unexpected Solaris: $ ; ; ; ; ; syntax error: `newline or ;' unexpected SVR3: $ ; ; ; ; ; syntax error: `newline or ;' unexpected SVR4: # ; ; ; ; ; syntax error: `newline or ;' unexpected From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 23 23:58:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA06202 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 23:58:19 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA06195 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 23:58:16 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA07169 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:59:01 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199507240659.CAA07169@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Next snap immenent? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:59:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 373 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Jordan, any plans on releasing a snap anytime soon? From what I can tell from watching bugs/commit there has been a lot of significant patches applied to the kernel that I would love to test/beat on w/ the filesystem and vm system. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 00:02:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA06511 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:02:01 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA06486 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:01:25 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA05582; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:57:15 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:57:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507240657.QAA05582@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@bonkers.taronga.com Subject: Re: make weirdness Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>So, why didn't the old sh complain? Of course I dunno. >The old sh didn't complain because an empty statement is a perfectly valid >statement. I did some checking: it looks like complaining about this syntax >is a System-V-ism. IMHO ignoring empty statements is the right thing to do, >from a language perspective. It seems to be required by POSIX. Bash complains. >1.1.5.1: >$ ; ; ; ; ; >$ >BSDI: >$ ; ; ; ; ; >$ >2.0.5 (freefall): >$ ; ; ; ; ; >Syntax error: ";" unexpected pre-2.0 through pre-2.2 (here) $ ; ; ; ; ; $ :-) I use this change which was one of Jim Wilson's fixes for 1.1.5. I wanted it mainly for the TEOF handling. --- *** parser.c~ Wed May 31 14:54:04 1995 --- parser.c Wed May 31 14:54:17 1995 *************** *** 443,447 **** --- 443,450 ---- break; /* Handle an empty command like other simple commands. */ + case TSEMI: case TNL: + /* Handle EOF like other simple commands, too. */ + case TEOF: case TWORD: tokpushback++; --- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 00:58:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA09581 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:58:00 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA09575 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:57:57 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA20449; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:57:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:57:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199507240757.AAA20449@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507210223.TAA10403@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Rod, it doesn't seem like we are going to reach any sort of agreement, but here it goes another one.... * If you think /usr/src/Makefile is complicated, go read release/Makefile * for some enjoyment... The release tree is not for general consumption. ;) * Or how about this for a comparitive, the length of bsd.port.mk is * almost as long as the sum of all the other .mk files combined :-) I know, and believe me, I'm going to clean this thing up. It's long because there is lots of code duplication, because I didn't know how to use macros. :p * Yes, it did, here is some of the rcs log that effected the change: Thanks. Is there somewhere I can check the old commit logs? * No, that is not ``an argument for the sake of an argument''. It is * a statement of reality. Your point that it is in /usr/share means that * the ports mechanism has contaiminted a standard part of the system, * only makeing the case stronger that the ideal can not be achived. But that doesn't mean we should try to keep them separated as much as possible. * Because ``make world'' is shorter, and the actual sequence of events * will be slightly different for you 2 sets of commands. If you really * want to know, go dig it out of the mail archive. Ports is a subsidiary Where can I find the old mail archives? * > Well, the stuff about the obj links and stuff are useless. We don't * > have them in the ports tree (and I don't think we ever had). * * Then again, this is ports changing without propery keeping src in sync * with the changes in the paradigm. This only proves my point, nobody in the ports group didn't even think about /usr/src/Makefile (I didn't even know ports is mentioned here!) when this change occurred. I'm just trying to keep the inter-depencies of the two trees to a minimum. * Because this point was argued 2 years ago, and you seem to be the * only one mounting a case to change it (and I the only one in it's * defense because I was there when it was done and know it took a lot * of convincing to get it added, but it was a _group_ decission to * do it.) Your just too late!!! Well, we got replies from two others, Jordan's "I prefer it nuked" and Julian's "nuke it if you want". And we can still delete it with a group decision. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 01:22:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA10783 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:22:54 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA10776 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:22:51 -0700 Received: from nike (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA28190; Mon, 24 Jul 95 01:22:44 PDT Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:31:21 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@nike To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: addition to ftp site Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering if there is a index.html page in the works for /pub/FreeBSD? I am wondering because I was browsing a Babylon-5 archive and they had a spiffy index.html that told about the directories and what not... it was able to explain a little about the files and put it into paragraph form which is what most people are used to... is wasn't anything fancy... no in-line images or anything... if there isn't I wouldn't mind wipping something up... the only problem is that I really don't have a good Inet connection (slirp over 14.4k modem) and really couldn't keep up with changes in /pub/FreeBSD... but if I wrote the bases... maybe someone can modify it as new stuff appear and old stuff disappear... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 02:13:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA12370 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:13:05 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA12361 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:13:01 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA18082; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:11:40 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507240911.CAA18082@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507240757.AAA20449@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jul 24, 95 00:57:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3983 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Rod, it doesn't seem like we are going to reach any sort of agreement, > but here it goes another one.... Go nuke it, but you have to respond to any site that complains about lost functionality if there was some one using it. I don't really care about the lines, I just know it took 2 weeks to convince me to add them, so I am not so happy to see this suddenly reversed with out as much convincing. Maybe I should have been more stuborn about adding them in the first place :-). > * If you think /usr/src/Makefile is complicated, go read release/Makefile > * for some enjoyment... > > The release tree is not for general consumption. ;) /usr/src is for general consumption, everything, including src/release. You might not be interested in it, but others are. > * Or how about this for a comparitive, the length of bsd.port.mk is > * almost as long as the sum of all the other .mk files combined :-) > > I know, and believe me, I'm going to clean this thing up. It's long > because there is lots of code duplication, because I didn't know how > to use macros. :p :-). I suggest you read the pmake tutorial in the 4.4BSD man set, also as /usr/share/doc/psd/12.make/* on your FreeBSD 2.x system. It doesn't cover .mk files per se, but it does cover a lot of ground. > * Yes, it did, here is some of the rcs log that effected the change: > > Thanks. Is there somewhere I can check the old commit logs? You need a 1.x cvs tree, we can't have a 1.x cvs tree on Freefall legally, and I am not suppose to have one here myself :-(. > * No, that is not ``an argument for the sake of an argument''. It is > * a statement of reality. Your point that it is in /usr/share means that > * the ports mechanism has contaiminted a standard part of the system, > * only makeing the case stronger that the ideal can not be achived. > > But that doesn't mean we should try to keep them separated as much as > possible. That may not mean it, but I am pretty sure the standing idea here is that ports should not contaminate /usr/src with port specific changes. > * Because ``make world'' is shorter, and the actual sequence of events > * will be slightly different for you 2 sets of commands. If you really > * want to know, go dig it out of the mail archive. Ports is a subsidiary > > Where can I find the old mail archives? /home/mail/archive on freefall. > * > Well, the stuff about the obj links and stuff are useless. We don't > * > have them in the ports tree (and I don't think we ever had). > * > * Then again, this is ports changing without propery keeping src in sync > * with the changes in the paradigm. > > This only proves my point, nobody in the ports group didn't even think > about /usr/src/Makefile (I didn't even know ports is mentioned here!) > when this change occurred. :-(. > I'm just trying to keep the inter-depencies of the two trees to a > minimum. > > * Because this point was argued 2 years ago, and you seem to be the > * only one mounting a case to change it (and I the only one in it's > * defense because I was there when it was done and know it took a lot > * of convincing to get it added, but it was a _group_ decission to > * do it.) Your just too late!!! > > Well, we got replies from two others, Jordan's "I prefer it nuked" and > Julian's "nuke it if you want". And we can still delete it with a > group decision. Julians reply was before I patched it, which was before I remeber the idea was that it would be a symlink to the location of ports. If Julian and Jordan say nuke it still, then go nuke it, but like I said in the opening. Any site complaining about lost functionality lands right in your lap. There are tons of things in unix that could be done with a few commands strung togeather, but are not. (nm -n => nm | sort), etc, etc. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 03:12:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA14010 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:12:51 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA14003 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:12:49 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA29019; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:12:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:12:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199507241012.DAA29019@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507240911.CAA18082@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * Maybe I should have been more stuborn about adding them in the * first place :-). I wish you were. :) * :-). I suggest you read the pmake tutorial in the 4.4BSD man set, * also as /usr/share/doc/psd/12.make/* on your FreeBSD 2.x system. * It doesn't cover .mk files per se, but it does cover a lot of * ground. Thanks. Well, I managed to "merge" all the skeleton targets into one, the result is now sitting on thud and will go out to the "ports" list for testing shortly. This change reduced 100 lines from bsd.port.mk. (Yeah I know, not much but it's a start. ;) * You need a 1.x cvs tree, we can't have a 1.x cvs tree on Freefall legally, * and I am not suppose to have one here myself :-(. Oh, is that so? I thought the agreement was to stop distributing the source, I didn't know that it included just having them.... * > But that doesn't mean we should try to keep them separated as much as * > possible. * * That may not mean it, but I am pretty sure the standing idea here is * that ports should not contaminate /usr/src with port specific changes. Ayyyyy sorry, I meant to type "that does't mean we shouldn't try". We are in agreement here. ;) ^^^^^^^^^ * > Where can I find the old mail archives? * * /home/mail/archive on freefall. I already looked there, they don't have mails older than a few months. That's why I asked for "old" mail archives. :) * Julians reply was before I patched it, which was before I remeber the * idea was that it would be a symlink to the location of ports. If * Julian and Jordan say nuke it still, then go nuke it, but like I said * in the opening. Any site complaining about lost functionality lands * right in your lap. Ok, well I'll wait a few more days to give people to voice their opinions before nuking it. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 03:23:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA14336 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:23:32 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA14320 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:23:19 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA26212; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:23:07 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA18789 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:40:16 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA04053 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:12:46 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507240612.IAA04053@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: your mail To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:12:45 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199507240139.LAA29063@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 24, 95 11:39:30 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1675 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > > >4.4BSD sed is broken. You must quote '/'in brackets, > >eg. sed -e 's/.*[\/]//' ...which would have been equivalent to sed -e 's/.*\///' Anyway, FreeBSD 1.1.5.1's sed has been broken for this and didn't recognize the escaped second slash. I'm not sure if 4.4BSD's sed is *broken*. I've studied Posix 1003.2 up and down, and it has been not clear if the regexp delimiters should have higher or lower precedence than brackets. I think the behaviour of this sed is strange, but not violating Posix (unlike the Net-2 sed, escaping the regexp delimiter is required to work). > Is this portable? I thought that '\' isn't special in brackets. It isn't > needed even to quote ']' - you can put the ']' first so that it isn't > interpreted as the end of the brackets: I'm not sure. I've replaced the Internet Info CD in my drive with the newly-arrived 2.0.5 `live filesystem' as a replacement for my missing /usr/src yesterday, so i cannot look into 1003.2 right now. I think backslashes are special, and you're supposed to escape at least backslashes themselves. I think this one should also apply for [] groups, explaining the need for backslashes under some circumstances: 2. The escape sequence \n matches a newline character embedded in the pattern space. You can't, however, use a literal newline character in an address or in the substitute command. You are right, ranges including a `]' are impossible, as well as ranges including a hyphen. See re_format(7). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 03:32:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA14626 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:32:04 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA14618 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:32:03 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507241032.DAA14618@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: new malloc.c please test To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:32:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 18823 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK, here is the next version of my "new" malloc.c This one is running in my libc right now, and giving no problems so far. Please give it a whirl: cp malloc.c /usr/src/lib/libc/stdlib cd /usr/src/lib/libc make all install In particular I am very interested in data regarding performance, time and resource wise compared to the regular malloc in libc, -lgnumalloc and so on. If some of you could roll it into a Xserver I would be very interested in the results, and likewise what impact it has on "make world" kind of things. If you compile with -DSANITY it will core-dump the program if it detects bad pointers or metadata. If you have time, you can try to fiddle with the "NFP" definition, and see what it buys you. Please email all results to me. Poul-Henning /* /* * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * "THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 42): * wrote this file. As long as you retain this notice you * can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some day, and you think * this stuff is worth it, you can buy me a beer in return. Poul-Henning Kamp * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * * $Id$ * */ #if defined(__i386__) && defined(__FreeBSD__) # warning FreeBSD i386 constants hardcoded. /* If these weren't defined here, they would be calculated on the fly */ # define malloc_pagesize 4096U # define malloc_pageshift 12U # define malloc_minsize 16U /* Keep this many empty pages around before returning pages to the kernel */ # define NFP 10 /* Save a sbrk(0) call every now and then */ #define curbrk _curbrk extern char * _curbrk asm ("curbrk"); #endif /* __i386__ && __FreeBSD__ */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #ifdef MAIN # define SANITY # define DEBUG #endif /* MAIN */ /* * This structure describes a page's worth of chunks. */ struct pginfo { struct pginfo *next; /* next on the free list */ void *page; /* Pointer to the page */ u_short size; /* size of this page's chunks */ u_short shift; /* How far to shift for this size chunks */ u_short free; /* How many free chunks */ u_short total; /* How many chunk */ u_long bits[1]; /* Which chunks are free */ }; /* * How many bits per u_long in the bitmap. * Change only if not 8 bits/byte */ #define MALLOC_BITS (8*sizeof(u_long)) /* * Magic values to put in the page_directory */ #define MALLOC_NOT_MINE ((struct pginfo*) 0) #define MALLOC_FREE ((struct pginfo*) 1) #define MALLOC_FIRST ((struct pginfo*) 2) #define MALLOC_FOLLOW ((struct pginfo*) 3) #define MALLOC_MAGIC ((struct pginfo*) 4) /* * The i386 architecture has some very convenient instructions. * We might as well use them. */ #ifdef __i386__ # warning i386 inline assembly used. #define ffs _ffs static __inline int _ffs(unsigned input) { int result; asm("bsfl %1,%0" : "=r" (result) : "r" (input)); return result+1; } #define fls _fls static __inline int _fls(unsigned input) { int result; asm("bsrl %1,%0" : "=r" (result) : "r" (input)); return result+1; } #define set_bit _set_bit static __inline void _set_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { asm("btsl %0,(%1)" : : "r" (bit & (MALLOC_BITS-1)), "r" (pi->bits+(bit/MALLOC_BITS))); } #define clr_bit _clr_bit static __inline void _clr_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { asm("btcl %0,(%1)" : : "r" (bit & (MALLOC_BITS-1)), "r" (pi->bits+(bit/MALLOC_BITS))); } #endif __i386__ /* * Set to one when malloc_init has been called */ static unsigned initialized; /* * The size of a page. * Must be a integral multiplum of the granularity of mmap(2). * Your toes will curl if it isn't a power of two */ #define malloc_pagemask ((malloc_pagesize)-1) /* * The size of the largest chunk. * Half a page. */ #define malloc_maxsize ((malloc_pagesize)>>1) /* * malloc_pagesize == 1 << malloc_pageshift */ #ifndef malloc_pageshift static unsigned malloc_pageshift; #endif /* malloc_pageshift */ /* * The smallest allocation we bother about. * Must be power of two */ #ifndef malloc_minsize static unsigned malloc_minsize; #endif /* malloc_minsize */ /* * The largest chunk we care about. * Must be smaller than pagesize * Must be power of two */ #ifndef malloc_maxsize static unsigned malloc_maxsize; #endif /* malloc_maxsize */ /* * The offset from pagenumber to index into the page directory */ static u_long malloc_origo; /* * The last index in the page directory we care about */ static u_long last_index; /* * Pointer to page directory. * Allocated "as if with" malloc */ static struct pginfo **page_dir; /* * How many slots in the page directory */ static unsigned malloc_ninfo; /* * A small cache of pages so we don't call mmap/munmap too much */ #ifdef NFP static void *freepage[NFP]; #endif /* NFP */ static set_pgdir(void *, struct pginfo *); /* * Write something to stderr without all the luggage of stdio */ static void wrterror(char *p) { char *q = "malloc(): "; write(2,q,strlen(q)); write(2,p,strlen(p)); abort(); } #ifdef DEBUG void malloc_dump(FILE *fd) { struct pginfo **pd; int i,j; pd = page_dir; /* find last touched page */ for(i=malloc_ninfo-1;i>=0;i--) if (pd[i]) break; /* print out all the pages */ for(j=0;j<=i;j++) { fprintf(fd,"%08lx %5d ",(j+malloc_origo) << malloc_pageshift,j); if (pd[j] == MALLOC_NOT_MINE) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_NOT_MINE;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d not mine\n", j); } else if (pd[j] == MALLOC_FREE) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_FREE;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d free\n", j); } else if (pd[j] == MALLOC_FIRST) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_FOLLOW;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d in use\n", j); } else if (pd[j] < MALLOC_MAGIC) { fprintf(fd,"(%d)\n", j); } else { fprintf(fd,"%p %d x %d @ %p\n", pd[j],pd[j]->free, pd[j]->size, pd[j]->page); } } /* print out various info */ fprintf(fd,"Minsize\t%d\n",malloc_minsize); fprintf(fd,"Maxsize\t%d\n",malloc_maxsize); fprintf(fd,"Pagesize\t%d\n",malloc_pagesize); fprintf(fd,"Pageshift\t%d\n",malloc_pageshift); fprintf(fd,"FirstPage\t%ld\n",malloc_origo); fprintf(fd,"LastPage\t%ld %lx\n",last_index,last_index << malloc_pageshift); fprintf(fd,"Break\t%ld\n",(u_long)sbrk(0) >> malloc_pageshift); } #endif /* DEBUG */ #ifndef curbrk #define curbrk sbrk(0); #endif /* * Allocate a number of pages from the OS */ static caddr_t map_pages(void *where, int pages) { caddr_t result; if (!where) { result = curbrk + malloc_pagemask - 1; result = (caddr_t) ((u_long)result & ~malloc_pagemask); if (!brk(result + (pages << malloc_pageshift))) { last_index = ((u_long)result >> malloc_pageshift) - malloc_origo; return result; } } else { result = mmap(where, pages << malloc_pageshift, PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE | PROT_EXEC, MAP_ANON, -1, 0); if (result != (caddr_t) -1) return result; } return 0; } /* * Return pages to the OS if we can */ static void unmap_pages(caddr_t ptr, int pages) { if (munmap(ptr, pages << malloc_pageshift)) wrterror("botch: munmap failed. (wild pointer ?)\n"); } /* * Set a bit in the bitmap */ #ifndef set_bit static __inline void set_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] |= 1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS); } #endif /* set_bit */ /* * Clear a bit in the bitmap */ #ifndef clr_bit static __inline void clr_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] &= ~(1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS)); } #endif /* clr_bit */ #ifdef SANITY #ifndef tst_bit /* * Test a bit in the bitmap */ static __inline int tst_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { return pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] & (1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS)); } #endif /* tst_bit */ #endif /* SANITY */ /* * Find last bit */ #ifndef fls static __inline int fls(int size) { int i = 1; while (size >>= 1) i++; return i; } #endif /* fls */ /* * Extend page directory */ static int extend_page_directory(u_long index) { struct pginfo **new,**old; int i; /* Make it this many pages */ i = index * sizeof *page_dir; i /= malloc_pagesize; i += 2; /* Get new pages, if you used this much mem you don't care :-) */ new = (struct pginfo**) map_pages(0,i); if (!new) return 0; /* Copy the old stuff */ memset(new, 0, i * malloc_pagesize); memcpy(new, page_dir, malloc_ninfo * sizeof *page_dir); /* register the new size */ malloc_ninfo = i * malloc_pagesize / sizeof *page_dir; /* swap the pointers */ old = page_dir; page_dir = new; /* Mark the pages */ set_pgdir(new,MALLOC_FIRST); while (--i) { new += malloc_pagesize; set_pgdir(new,MALLOC_FOLLOW); } /* Now free the old stuff */ free(old); return 1; } /* * Set entry in page directory. * Extend page directory if need be. */ static int set_pgdir(void *ptr, struct pginfo *info) { u_long index = ((u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift) - malloc_origo; if (index >= malloc_ninfo && !extend_page_directory(index)) return 0; page_dir[index] = info; return 1; } /* * Initialize the world */ static void malloc_init () { int i; #ifndef malloc_pagesize /* determine our pagesize */ malloc_pagesize = getpagesize(); #endif /* malloc_pagesize */ #ifndef malloc_pageshift /* determine how much we shift by to get there */ for (i = malloc_pagesize; i > 1; i >>= 1) malloc_pageshift++; #endif /* malloc_pageshift */ #ifndef malloc_minsize /* * find the smallest size allocation we will bother about. * this is determined as the smallest allocation that can hold * it's own pginfo; */ i = 2; for(;;) { int j; /* Figure out the size of the bits */ j = malloc_pagesize/i; j /= 8; if (j < sizeof(u_long)) j = sizeof (u_long); if (sizeof(struct pginfo) + j - sizeof (u_long) <= i) break; i += i; } malloc_minsize = i; #endif /* malloc_minsize */ /* Allocate one page for the page directory */ page_dir = (struct pginfo **) map_pages(0,1); if (!page_dir) wrterror("fatal: my first mmap failed. (check limits ?)\n"); /* * We need a maximum of malloc_pageshift buckets, steal these from the * front of the page_directory; */ malloc_origo = (u_long) page_dir >> malloc_pageshift; malloc_origo -= malloc_pageshift; /* Clear it */ memset(page_dir,0,malloc_pagesize); /* Find out how much it tells us */ malloc_ninfo = malloc_pagesize / sizeof *page_dir; /* Plug the page directory into itself */ i = set_pgdir(page_dir,MALLOC_FIRST); if (!i) wrterror("fatal: couldn't set myself in the page directory\n"); /* Been here, done that */ initialized++; } /* * Allocate a number of complete pages */ void * malloc_pages(size_t size) { void *p,*q; int i; struct pginfo **pi,**pe; /* How many pages ? */ size += (malloc_pagesize-1); size >>= malloc_pageshift; /* Look for free pages before asking for more */ pi = page_dir + malloc_pageshift; pe = page_dir + last_index; p = 0; if (size == 1) { #ifdef NFP for(i=0;i> bits)+MALLOC_BITS-1) / MALLOC_BITS); if ((1<<(bits-1)) <= l) { bp = (struct pginfo *)pp; l += (1<>= bits; } else { bp = (struct pginfo *)malloc(l); l = 0; } if (!bp) return 0; i = set_pgdir(pp,bp); if (!i) return 0; bp->size = (1<shift = bits; bp->total = bp->free = malloc_pagesize >> bits; bp->next = 0; bp->page = pp; /* We can safely assume that there is nobody in this chain */ page_dir[bits] = bp; /* set all valid bits in the bits */ k = bp->total; i = 0; for(;k-i >= MALLOC_BITS; i += MALLOC_BITS) bp->bits[i / MALLOC_BITS] = ~0; for(; i < k; i++) set_bit(bp,i); /* We may have used the first ones already */ for(i=0;ifree--; bp->total--; } return 1; } /* * Allocate a fragment */ static void * malloc_bytes(size_t size) { int j; /* Find the right bucket */ if (size < malloc_minsize) size = malloc_minsize; j = fls((size)-1); while(1) { struct pginfo *bp; bp = page_dir[j]; if (bp) { register int k; register u_long *lp = bp->bits; for (; !*lp; lp++) ; k = ffs(*lp) - 1; *lp ^= 1<free--; if (!bp->free) { page_dir[j] = bp->next; bp->next = 0; } k += (lp-bp->bits)*MALLOC_BITS; return bp->page + (k << bp->shift); } if (!malloc_make_chunks(j)) return 0; } } void * malloc(size_t size) { if (!initialized) malloc_init(); if (size <= malloc_maxsize) return malloc_bytes(size); return malloc_pages(size); } void * realloc(void *ptr, size_t size) { void *p; u_long osize; struct pginfo **mp; if (!initialized) malloc_init(); if (ptr && !size) { free(ptr); return 0; } if (!ptr) return malloc(size); mp = &page_dir[((u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift) - malloc_origo]; if (*mp == MALLOC_FIRST) { osize = malloc_pagesize; while (mp[1] == MALLOC_FOLLOW) { osize += malloc_pagesize; mp++; } } else { osize = (*mp)->size; } p = malloc(size); if (p) { if (osize < size) memcpy(p,ptr,osize); else memcpy(p,ptr,size); free(ptr); } return p; } static __inline void free_pages(void *ptr,u_long page, int index, struct pginfo *info) { int i; #ifdef SANITY if (info == MALLOC_FREE) wrterror("sanity: freeing free page.\n"); if (info != MALLOC_FIRST) wrterror("sanity: freeing wrong page.\n"); if ((u_long)ptr & malloc_pagemask) wrterror("sanity: freeing messed up page pointer.\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ /* Count how many pages it is */ for (i = 1; page_dir[index+i] == MALLOC_FOLLOW; i++) ; #ifdef NFP for(j=0;jsize - 1)) wrterror("sanity: freeing messed up chunk pointer\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ i = ((u_long)ptr & malloc_pagemask) >> info->shift; #ifdef SANITY if (tst_bit(info,i)) wrterror("sanity: freeing free chunk.\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ set_bit(info,i); info->free++; mp = page_dir + info->shift; if (info->free == 1) { /* Link in front of chain */ info->next = *mp; *mp = info; return; } if (info->free != info->total) return; /* * This keeps at least one index-page around for each size. * The benefit is decent considering the overhead (7 pages) */ if (!info->next && (page_dir[info->shift] == info)) return; while (*mp != info) mp = &((*mp)->next); *mp = info->next; set_pgdir(info->page,MALLOC_FIRST); if((void*)info->page == (void*)info) { free(info->page); } else { free(info->page); free(info); } } void free(void *ptr) { u_long page; struct pginfo *info; int index; if (!initialized) malloc_init(); page = (u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift; index = page - malloc_origo; info = page_dir[index]; if (info < MALLOC_MAGIC) return free_pages(ptr,page,index,info); return free_bytes(ptr,page,index,info); } #ifdef MAIN /* TEST STUFF */ #define NBUCKETS 2000 #define NOPS 500000 void *foo[NBUCKETS]; int main() { int i,j,k; void *bar; setbuf(stdout,0); setbuf(stderr,0); bar = malloc(1); malloc_dump(stderr); free(bar); malloc_dump(stderr); for (i = 0 ; i < NOPS ; i++) { j = rand() % NBUCKETS; if (foo[j]) { free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } else { k = rand() % malloc_maxsize; foo[j] = malloc(k); if (!foo[j]) printf("%6d M [%4d] %8p %d\n",i,j,foo[j],k); } } for (j = 0 ; j < NBUCKETS ; j++) { if (foo[j]) { free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } } malloc_dump(stderr); for (i = 0 ; i < NOPS ; i++) { j = rand() % NBUCKETS; if (foo[j]) { free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } else { k = rand() % malloc_maxsize; foo[j] = malloc(k); if (!foo[j]) printf("%6d M [%4d] %8p %d\n",i,j,foo[j],k); } } for (j = 0 ; j < NBUCKETS ; j++) { if (foo[j]) { free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } } malloc_dump(stderr); return 0; } #endif /* MAIN */ -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 03:36:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA14822 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:36:40 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA14811 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:36:39 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507241036.DAA14811@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: new malloc.c please test To: phk@freefall.cdrom.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507241032.DAA14618@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jul 24, 95 03:32:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 18070 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I hate it when this happens, Here is the right file: /* * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * "THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 42): * wrote this file. As long as you retain this notice you * can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some day, and you think * this stuff is worth it, you can buy me a beer in return. Poul-Henning Kamp * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * * $Id$ * */ #if defined(__i386__) && defined(__FreeBSD__) # warning FreeBSD i386 constants hardcoded. /* If these weren't defined here, they would be calculated on the fly */ # define malloc_pagesize 4096U # define malloc_pageshift 12U # define malloc_minsize 16U /* Keep this many empty pages around before returning pages to the kernel */ # define NFP 10 /* Save a sbrk(0) call every now and then */ #define curbrk _curbrk extern char * _curbrk asm ("curbrk"); #endif /* __i386__ && __FreeBSD__ */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #ifdef MAIN # define SANITY # define DEBUG #endif /* MAIN */ /* * This structure describes a page's worth of chunks. */ struct pginfo { struct pginfo *next; /* next on the free list */ void *page; /* Pointer to the page */ u_short size; /* size of this page's chunks */ u_short shift; /* How far to shift for this size chunks */ u_short free; /* How many free chunks */ u_short total; /* How many chunk */ u_long bits[1]; /* Which chunks are free */ }; /* * How many bits per u_long in the bitmap. * Change only if not 8 bits/byte */ #define MALLOC_BITS (8*sizeof(u_long)) /* * Magic values to put in the page_directory */ #define MALLOC_NOT_MINE ((struct pginfo*) 0) #define MALLOC_FREE ((struct pginfo*) 1) #define MALLOC_FIRST ((struct pginfo*) 2) #define MALLOC_FOLLOW ((struct pginfo*) 3) #define MALLOC_MAGIC ((struct pginfo*) 4) /* * The i386 architecture has some very convenient instructions. * We might as well use them. */ #ifdef __i386__ # warning i386 inline assembly used. #define ffs _ffs static __inline int _ffs(unsigned input) { int result; asm("bsfl %1,%0" : "=r" (result) : "r" (input)); return result+1; } #define fls _fls static __inline int _fls(unsigned input) { int result; asm("bsrl %1,%0" : "=r" (result) : "r" (input)); return result+1; } #define set_bit _set_bit static __inline void _set_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { asm("btsl %0,(%1)" : : "r" (bit & (MALLOC_BITS-1)), "r" (pi->bits+(bit/MALLOC_BITS))); } #define clr_bit _clr_bit static __inline void _clr_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { asm("btcl %0,(%1)" : : "r" (bit & (MALLOC_BITS-1)), "r" (pi->bits+(bit/MALLOC_BITS))); } #endif __i386__ /* * Set to one when malloc_init has been called */ static unsigned initialized; /* * The size of a page. * Must be a integral multiplum of the granularity of mmap(2). * Your toes will curl if it isn't a power of two */ #define malloc_pagemask ((malloc_pagesize)-1) /* * The size of the largest chunk. * Half a page. */ #define malloc_maxsize ((malloc_pagesize)>>1) /* * malloc_pagesize == 1 << malloc_pageshift */ #ifndef malloc_pageshift static unsigned malloc_pageshift; #endif /* malloc_pageshift */ /* * The smallest allocation we bother about. * Must be power of two */ #ifndef malloc_minsize static unsigned malloc_minsize; #endif /* malloc_minsize */ /* * The largest chunk we care about. * Must be smaller than pagesize * Must be power of two */ #ifndef malloc_maxsize static unsigned malloc_maxsize; #endif /* malloc_maxsize */ /* * The offset from pagenumber to index into the page directory */ static u_long malloc_origo; /* * The last index in the page directory we care about */ static u_long last_index; /* * Pointer to page directory. * Allocated "as if with" malloc */ static struct pginfo **page_dir; /* * How many slots in the page directory */ static unsigned malloc_ninfo; /* * A small cache of pages so we don't call mmap/munmap too much */ #ifdef NFP static void *freepage[NFP]; #endif /* NFP */ static set_pgdir(void *, struct pginfo *); /* * Write something to stderr without all the luggage of stdio */ static void wrterror(char *p) { char *q = "malloc(): "; write(2,q,strlen(q)); write(2,p,strlen(p)); abort(); } #ifdef DEBUG void malloc_dump(FILE *fd) { struct pginfo **pd; int i,j; pd = page_dir; /* find last touched page */ for(i=malloc_ninfo-1;i>=0;i--) if (pd[i]) break; /* print out all the pages */ for(j=0;j<=i;j++) { fprintf(fd,"%08lx %5d ",(j+malloc_origo) << malloc_pageshift,j); if (pd[j] == MALLOC_NOT_MINE) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_NOT_MINE;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d not mine\n", j); } else if (pd[j] == MALLOC_FREE) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_FREE;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d free\n", j); } else if (pd[j] == MALLOC_FIRST) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_FOLLOW;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d in use\n", j); } else if (pd[j] < MALLOC_MAGIC) { fprintf(fd,"(%d)\n", j); } else { fprintf(fd,"%p %d x %d @ %p\n", pd[j],pd[j]->free, pd[j]->size, pd[j]->page); } } /* print out various info */ fprintf(fd,"Minsize\t%d\n",malloc_minsize); fprintf(fd,"Maxsize\t%d\n",malloc_maxsize); fprintf(fd,"Pagesize\t%d\n",malloc_pagesize); fprintf(fd,"Pageshift\t%d\n",malloc_pageshift); fprintf(fd,"FirstPage\t%ld\n",malloc_origo); fprintf(fd,"LastPage\t%ld %lx\n",last_index,last_index << malloc_pageshift); fprintf(fd,"Break\t%ld\n",(u_long)sbrk(0) >> malloc_pageshift); } #endif /* DEBUG */ #ifndef curbrk #define curbrk sbrk(0); #endif /* * Allocate a number of pages from the OS */ static caddr_t map_pages(void *where, int pages) { caddr_t result; if (!where) { result = curbrk + malloc_pagemask - 1; result = (caddr_t) ((u_long)result & ~malloc_pagemask); if (!brk(result + (pages << malloc_pageshift))) { last_index = ((u_long)result >> malloc_pageshift) - malloc_origo; return result; } } else { result = mmap(where, pages << malloc_pageshift, PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE | PROT_EXEC, MAP_ANON, -1, 0); if (result != (caddr_t) -1) return result; } return 0; } /* * Return pages to the OS if we can */ static void unmap_pages(caddr_t ptr, int pages) { if (munmap(ptr, pages << malloc_pageshift)) wrterror("botch: munmap failed. (wild pointer ?)\n"); } /* * Set a bit in the bitmap */ #ifndef set_bit static __inline void set_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] |= 1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS); } #endif /* set_bit */ /* * Clear a bit in the bitmap */ #ifndef clr_bit static __inline void clr_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] &= ~(1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS)); } #endif /* clr_bit */ #ifdef SANITY #ifndef tst_bit /* * Test a bit in the bitmap */ static __inline int tst_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { return pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] & (1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS)); } #endif /* tst_bit */ #endif /* SANITY */ /* * Find last bit */ #ifndef fls static __inline int fls(int size) { int i = 1; while (size >>= 1) i++; return i; } #endif /* fls */ /* * Extend page directory */ static int extend_page_directory(u_long index) { struct pginfo **new,**old; int i; /* Make it this many pages */ i = index * sizeof *page_dir; i /= malloc_pagesize; i += 2; /* Get new pages, if you used this much mem you don't care :-) */ new = (struct pginfo**) map_pages(0,i); if (!new) return 0; /* Copy the old stuff */ memset(new, 0, i * malloc_pagesize); memcpy(new, page_dir, malloc_ninfo * sizeof *page_dir); /* register the new size */ malloc_ninfo = i * malloc_pagesize / sizeof *page_dir; /* swap the pointers */ old = page_dir; page_dir = new; /* Mark the pages */ set_pgdir(new,MALLOC_FIRST); while (--i) { new += malloc_pagesize; set_pgdir(new,MALLOC_FOLLOW); } /* Now free the old stuff */ free(old); return 1; } /* * Set entry in page directory. * Extend page directory if need be. */ static int set_pgdir(void *ptr, struct pginfo *info) { u_long index = ((u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift) - malloc_origo; if (index >= malloc_ninfo && !extend_page_directory(index)) return 0; page_dir[index] = info; return 1; } /* * Initialize the world */ static void malloc_init () { int i; #ifndef malloc_pagesize /* determine our pagesize */ malloc_pagesize = getpagesize(); #endif /* malloc_pagesize */ #ifndef malloc_pageshift /* determine how much we shift by to get there */ for (i = malloc_pagesize; i > 1; i >>= 1) malloc_pageshift++; #endif /* malloc_pageshift */ #ifndef malloc_minsize /* * find the smallest size allocation we will bother about. * this is determined as the smallest allocation that can hold * it's own pginfo; */ i = 2; for(;;) { int j; /* Figure out the size of the bits */ j = malloc_pagesize/i; j /= 8; if (j < sizeof(u_long)) j = sizeof (u_long); if (sizeof(struct pginfo) + j - sizeof (u_long) <= i) break; i += i; } malloc_minsize = i; #endif /* malloc_minsize */ /* Allocate one page for the page directory */ page_dir = (struct pginfo **) map_pages(0,1); if (!page_dir) wrterror("fatal: my first mmap failed. (check limits ?)\n"); /* * We need a maximum of malloc_pageshift buckets, steal these from the * front of the page_directory; */ malloc_origo = (u_long) page_dir >> malloc_pageshift; malloc_origo -= malloc_pageshift; /* Clear it */ memset(page_dir,0,malloc_pagesize); /* Find out how much it tells us */ malloc_ninfo = malloc_pagesize / sizeof *page_dir; /* Plug the page directory into itself */ i = set_pgdir(page_dir,MALLOC_FIRST); if (!i) wrterror("fatal: couldn't set myself in the page directory\n"); /* Been here, done that */ initialized++; } /* * Allocate a number of complete pages */ void * malloc_pages(size_t size) { void *p,*q; int i; struct pginfo **pi,**pe; /* How many pages ? */ size += (malloc_pagesize-1); size >>= malloc_pageshift; /* Look for free pages before asking for more */ pi = page_dir + malloc_pageshift; pe = page_dir + last_index; p = 0; if (size == 1) { #ifdef NFP for(i=0;i> bits)+MALLOC_BITS-1) / MALLOC_BITS); if ((1<<(bits-1)) <= l) { bp = (struct pginfo *)pp; l += (1<>= bits; } else { bp = (struct pginfo *)malloc(l); l = 0; } if (!bp) return 0; i = set_pgdir(pp,bp); if (!i) return 0; bp->size = (1<shift = bits; bp->total = bp->free = malloc_pagesize >> bits; bp->next = 0; bp->page = pp; /* We can safely assume that there is nobody in this chain */ page_dir[bits] = bp; /* set all valid bits in the bits */ k = bp->total; i = 0; for(;k-i >= MALLOC_BITS; i += MALLOC_BITS) bp->bits[i / MALLOC_BITS] = ~0; for(; i < k; i++) set_bit(bp,i); /* We may have used the first ones already */ for(i=0;ifree--; bp->total--; } return 1; } /* * Allocate a fragment */ static void * malloc_bytes(size_t size) { int j; /* Find the right bucket */ if (size < malloc_minsize) size = malloc_minsize; j = fls((size)-1); while(1) { struct pginfo *bp; bp = page_dir[j]; if (bp) { register int k; register u_long *lp = bp->bits; for (; !*lp; lp++) ; k = ffs(*lp) - 1; *lp ^= 1<free--; if (!bp->free) { page_dir[j] = bp->next; bp->next = 0; } k += (lp-bp->bits)*MALLOC_BITS; return bp->page + (k << bp->shift); } if (!malloc_make_chunks(j)) return 0; } } void * malloc(size_t size) { if (!initialized) malloc_init(); if (size <= malloc_maxsize) return malloc_bytes(size); return malloc_pages(size); } void * realloc(void *ptr, size_t size) { void *p; u_long osize; struct pginfo **mp; if (!initialized) malloc_init(); if (ptr && !size) { free(ptr); return 0; } if (!ptr) return malloc(size); mp = &page_dir[((u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift) - malloc_origo]; if (*mp == MALLOC_FIRST) { osize = malloc_pagesize; while (mp[1] == MALLOC_FOLLOW) { osize += malloc_pagesize; mp++; } } else { osize = (*mp)->size; } p = malloc(size); if (p) { if (osize < size) memcpy(p,ptr,osize); else memcpy(p,ptr,size); free(ptr); } return p; } static __inline void free_pages(void *ptr,u_long page, int index, struct pginfo *info) { int i; #ifdef SANITY if (info == MALLOC_FREE) wrterror("sanity: freeing free page.\n"); if (info != MALLOC_FIRST) wrterror("sanity: freeing wrong page.\n"); if ((u_long)ptr & malloc_pagemask) wrterror("sanity: freeing messed up page pointer.\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ /* Count how many pages it is */ for (i = 1; page_dir[index+i] == MALLOC_FOLLOW; i++) ; #ifdef NFP { int j; for(j=0;jsize - 1)) wrterror("sanity: freeing messed up chunk pointer\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ i = ((u_long)ptr & malloc_pagemask) >> info->shift; #ifdef SANITY if (tst_bit(info,i)) wrterror("sanity: freeing free chunk.\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ set_bit(info,i); info->free++; mp = page_dir + info->shift; if (info->free == 1) { /* Link in front of chain */ info->next = *mp; *mp = info; return; } if (info->free != info->total) return; /* * This keeps at least one index-page around for each size. * The benefit is decent considering the overhead (7 pages) */ if (!info->next && (page_dir[info->shift] == info)) return; while (*mp != info) mp = &((*mp)->next); *mp = info->next; set_pgdir(info->page,MALLOC_FIRST); if((void*)info->page == (void*)info) { free(info->page); } else { free(info->page); free(info); } } void free(void *ptr) { u_long page; struct pginfo *info; int index; if (!initialized) malloc_init(); page = (u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift; index = page - malloc_origo; info = page_dir[index]; if (info < MALLOC_MAGIC) return free_pages(ptr,page,index,info); return free_bytes(ptr,page,index,info); } #ifdef MAIN /* TEST STUFF */ #define NBUCKETS 2000 #define NOPS 500000 void *foo[NBUCKETS]; int main() { int i,j,k; void *bar; setbuf(stdout,0); setbuf(stderr,0); bar = malloc(1); malloc_dump(stderr); free(bar); malloc_dump(stderr); for (i = 0 ; i < NOPS ; i++) { j = rand() % NBUCKETS; if (foo[j]) { free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } else { k = rand() % malloc_maxsize; foo[j] = malloc(k); if (!foo[j]) printf("%6d M [%4d] %8p %d\n",i,j,foo[j],k); } } for (j = 0 ; j < NBUCKETS ; j++) { if (foo[j]) { free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } } malloc_dump(stderr); for (i = 0 ; i < NOPS ; i++) { j = rand() % NBUCKETS; if (foo[j]) { free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } else { k = rand() % malloc_maxsize; foo[j] = malloc(k); if (!foo[j]) printf("%6d M [%4d] %8p %d\n",i,j,foo[j],k); } } for (j = 0 ; j < NBUCKETS ; j++) { if (foo[j]) { free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } } malloc_dump(stderr); return 0; } #endif /* MAIN */ -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 03:48:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA15139 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:48:38 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA15132 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:48:35 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA16144; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:48:32 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:48:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199507241048.DAA16144@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: phk@freefall.cdrom.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507241032.DAA14618@freefall.cdrom.com> (message from Poul-Henning Kamp on Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:32:03 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: new malloc.c please test From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * Please give it a whirl: * cp malloc.c /usr/src/lib/libc/stdlib * cd /usr/src/lib/libc * make all install Well, I needed to add a declaration of "j" in free_pages() to compile. (I did it outside the src tree, but I don't think that will make any difference.) I'll link it to the X server and tell you how it goes. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 03:49:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA15202 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:49:30 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA15191 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:49:29 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507241049.DAA15191@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: new malloc.c please test To: phk@freefall.cdrom.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507241032.DAA14618@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jul 24, 95 03:32:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 553 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > OK, here is the next version of my "new" malloc.c This one is running > in my libc right now, and giving no problems so far. Yet another detail: FreeBSD tolerates NULL as argument to free(), my code didn't. Please add if (!ptr) return; In the top of the free() procedure. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 04:02:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA15686 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:02:17 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA15679 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:02:13 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA20705; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:02:10 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:02:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199507241102.EAA20705@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: phk@freefall.cdrom.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507241032.DAA14618@freefall.cdrom.com> (message from Poul-Henning Kamp on Mon, 24 Jul 1995 03:32:03 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: new malloc.c please test From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I got this message when linking it statically with oneko: === ld: /usr/local/lib/libphkmalloc.a(phkmalloc.o): RRS text relocation at 0x3350 for "curbrk" === Do I have to worry about it? Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 04:10:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA15963 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:10:16 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA15954 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:10:13 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507241110.EAA15954@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: new malloc.c please test To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507241102.EAA20705@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jul 24, 95 04:02:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 554 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I got this message when linking it statically with oneko: > > === > ld: /usr/local/lib/libphkmalloc.a(phkmalloc.o): RRS text relocation at > 0x3350 for "curbrk" > === > > Do I have to worry about it? You can remove the definition of "curbrk" at line circa 40 and it will go away. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 04:32:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA16584 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:32:05 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16578 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:32:02 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA00865; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:31:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:31:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199507241131.EAA00865@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: phk@freefall.cdrom.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507241110.EAA15954@freefall.cdrom.com> (message from Poul-Henning Kamp on Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:10:12 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: new malloc.c please test From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * You can remove the definition of "curbrk" at line circa 40 and it will * go away. Well, I put /* */ around the line: #define curbrk _curbrk and I got seg fault from oneko (previously happily running with your malloc). This is what gdb had to say: (gdb) bt #0 0x3505 in set_pgdir () #1 0x538 in ?? () #2 0x35e4 in malloc_init () #3 0x3985 in malloc () #4 0x80f584f in end () #5 0x8039391 in end () #6 0x1cd0 in InitScreen () #7 0x3260 in main () The XF86_S3 server also seg faulted. Without commenting out that line, I could run oneko successfully and XF86_S3 without seg faulting. Although all the X server did was to give me a blank screen, and I had to Ctrl-Alt-Del out of it. :< Did I do something wrong? This is the small Makefile I used to create the library (I'm not ready to stick it into libc, I have only one machine and can't afford to lose it): ======= all: libphkmalloc.a libphkmalloc.a: phkmalloc.o rm -f $@ ${AR} cq $@ $> install: all cp libphkmalloc.a /usr/local/lib ======= And I replaced "-lgnumalloc" in FreeBSD.cf with "-L/usr/local/bin -lphkmalloc" before going to /usr/X11R6/lib/Server and doing "mkmf; make". Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 04:47:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA16985 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:47:27 -0700 Received: from dns.netvision.net.il (dns.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16979 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:47:22 -0700 Received: from gena@NetVision.net.il (gena@burka.NetVision.net.il [194.90.6.15]) by dns.netvision.net.il (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA11397; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:48:04 +0300 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:48:04 +0300 In-Reply-To: <199507241032.DAA14618@freefall.cdrom.com> Reply-To: gena@NetVision.net.il Message-ID: X-Face: #v>4HN>#D_"[olq9y`HqTYkLVB89Xy|3')Vs9v58JQ*u-xEJVKY`xa.}E?z0RkLI/P&;BJmi0#u=W0).-Y'J4(dw{"54NhSG|YYZG@[)(`e! >jN#L!~qI5fE-JHS+< Organization: NetVision Ltd. X-Mailer: XFMail 0.2-Beta on FreeBSD From: Gennady Sorokopud To: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: RE: new malloc.c please test Cc: Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I just tried it and after installing new libc my system started to misbehave. Many programs (like vi) complained about memory allocation and my Xserver just crashed. I'm running -current (supped yesterday) and i compiled malloc exactly like you said. ( i defined j in free_pages and also i got 2 warnings during compilation: FreeBSD i386 constants hardcoded. i386 inline assembly used. but i guess it's ok) In message <199507241032.DAA14618@freefall.cdrom.com> Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >OK, here is the next version of my "new" malloc.c This one is running >in my libc right now, and giving no problems so far. > >Please give it a whirl: > cp malloc.c /usr/src/lib/libc/stdlib > cd /usr/src/lib/libc > make all install > >In particular I am very interested in data regarding performance, time and >resource wise compared to the regular malloc in libc, -lgnumalloc and so >on. If some of you could roll it into a Xserver I would be very interested >in the results, and likewise what impact it has on "make world" kind of >things. > >If you compile with -DSANITY it will core-dump the program if it detects >bad pointers or metadata. > >If you have time, you can try to fiddle with the "NFP" definition, and >see what it buys you. > >Please email all results to me. > >Poul-Henning > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 04:49:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA17058 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:49:37 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA17049 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:49:36 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507241149.EAA17049@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: new malloc.c please test To: gena@NetVision.net.il Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Gennady Sorokopud" at Jul 24, 95 02:48:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 572 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I just tried it and after installing new libc my system started to > misbehave. Many programs (like vi) complained about memory allocation > and my Xserver just crashed. Yeah, I'm starting to see some of these too. I guess further testing isn't needed right now... :-/ Thanks for the help so far... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 04:56:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA17291 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:56:56 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA17285 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:56:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA01426; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:56:02 -0700 To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Next snap immenent? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:59:01 EDT." <199507240659.CAA07169@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:56:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1424.806586961@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Soon. Still a few loose ends to take care of. Jordan > Hi Jordan, any plans on releasing a snap anytime soon? From what I can tell > from watching bugs/commit there has been a lot of significant patches applied > to the kernel that I would love to test/beat on w/ the filesystem and vm > system. > > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu > > http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 05:15:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA17682 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 05:15:10 -0700 Received: from crox.net.kiae.su (crox.net.kiae.su [144.206.130.72]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA17663 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 05:14:54 -0700 Received: by crox.net.kiae.su id QAA02818; (8.6.9/vak/1.8a) Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:08:27 +0400 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 16:08:27 +0400 To: paul@netcraft.co.uk Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: References: <199507211106.MAA02126@server.netcraft.co.uk> From: vak@cronyx.ru Subject: Re: [patch] if_lnc.c: support for PCI Lance Ethernet adapters added X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Some notes: > > 1. The Am79C970 chip has the same manufacturer id as the Am79C965 one. > > Probing for it was wrong in the original driver. > > Yeah, the AMD docs are wrong and if you contact AMD they'll even tell > what the id should be and it's still wrong :-) > > Every PCI chip I've seen uses the PCnet-32 ID as you've fuond out. I got it from the AMD Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 Family 1994 World Network Data Book/Handbook. According to specs, both 79c965 and 79c970 have the same values in CSR88-CSR89 registers: struct csr88 { unsigned logic_1 : 1; /* always 1 */ unsigned manufacturer_id : 11; /* 001h for AMD */ unsigned part_number : 16; /* 2430h for PCnet-32 and PCnet-PCI */ unsigned version : 4; /* silicon-revision dependent */ }; struct csr89 { unsigned part_number_hi : 12; /* 243h for PCnet-32 and PCnet-PCI */ unsigned version : 4; /* silicon-revision dependent */ unsigned reserved : 16; /* undefined */ }; Note than csr89.part_number_hi is always = csr88.part_number >> 4. > > 2. Loss of carrier message could happen too often on overloaded networks, > > it surely does not worth printing. > > If you're getting these errors then something is wrong. I'm not planning I agree that something is wrong, but it happens on every transmitted packet here in KIAE... > on removing that error message. The only error on lnc that possibly > needs thinking about is the heartbeat error since some cards don't > do the heartbeat test and you end up with a stream of such errors. I am now working on the FreeBSD-based router project, and PCnet-PCI will be the Ethernet-part of the hardware solution. And it would be not very great if the router would print a lot of diagnostic messages, even in the case of hardware errors. There is another thing in driver which probably should be fixed: if the ethernet cable is not attached, then the driver gets transmit timeouts and resets the adapter every 10 seconds. Better solution would be to detect the situation and print something like ``no cable attached''. I will work on it later. > > + switch (sc->nic.mem_mode) { > > + case DMA_FIXED: printf (", static DMA buffer mode"); break; > > + case DMA_MBUF: printf (", chained DMA buffers mode"); break; > > + case SHMEM: printf (", shared memory mode"); break; > > + } > > You've misunderstood this slightly, the DMA_FIXED version uses pre-allocated No, I understand it well, precisely :-) I consider the driver during attach() should print the full information about the hardware it detected and about all the modes it will use for that hardware. I added these printfs when tried to trace some errors in the driver, and found that dmesg gives not enough information. Probably, the phrases would be better, but it should print something here. :-) > > +/* > > + * PCI bus probe and attach routines for LANCE Ethernet controllers, > > + * by Serge V.Vakulenko, vak@cronyx.ru > > + */ > > I'll file this away and look at it all for 2.2. The pci code shouldn't OK > really go into the isa file. The bus specific probe code needs to be split > out and put in the proper place but this wouldn't be the only driver to > break the rules so.... Initially I tried to make it so. But the pci_attach needed an access to lnc_attach which is hidden, and I decided to put it into the main file. It seems that the pci level needs some redesign... Regards, Serge --- Serge Vakulenko Cronyx Ltd., Moscow Unix consulting and custom programming phone: +7 (095) 939-23-23 FreeBSD support fax: +7 (095) 939-03-00 Relcom network development From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 07:26:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA20521 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 07:26:52 -0700 Received: from daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Daisy.ee.und.ac.za [146.230.192.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA20506 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 07:26:37 -0700 Received: from marge.mikom.csir.co.za by daisy.ee.und.ac.za with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #31) id m0saOSL-0007V4C; Mon, 24 Jul 95 16:26 GMT+0200 Received: by marge.mikom.csir.co.za (/\==/\ Smail3.1.22.1 #22.20) id ; Mon, 24 Jul 95 16:27 SAT Message-Id: From: pallenby@marge.mikom.csir.co.za (Paul Allenby) Subject: snmp available for FreeBSD To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 16:27:46 SAT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Bertus Pretorius recently mentioned, CMU's SNMP code has been modified to run on FreeBSD 2.0.5. The version supports only SNMPv1 PDU's. The code still needs some work to clean it up, but due to several requests, it is being made available now as is. The code is available via anonymous ftp from skeleton.mikom.csir.co.za, file pub/FreeBSD.tools/snmp.tgz. Please send any suggestions/comments to pallenby@mikom.csir.co.za. I will be supporting it in the future. Paul ******************************************************************************** P.D.Allenby Mikomtek, CSIR, RSA. e-mail: pallenby@mikom.csir.co.za voice : (012)8414085 ******************************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 08:19:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA22852 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:19:46 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22846 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:19:43 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA18512; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:19:34 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507241519.IAA18512@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507241012.DAA29019@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jul 24, 95 03:12:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2662 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > * Maybe I should have been more stuborn about adding them in the > * first place :-). > > I wish you were. :) > > * :-). I suggest you read the pmake tutorial in the 4.4BSD man set, > * also as /usr/share/doc/psd/12.make/* on your FreeBSD 2.x system. > * It doesn't cover .mk files per se, but it does cover a lot of > * ground. > > Thanks. Well, I managed to "merge" all the skeleton targets into one, > the result is now sitting on thud and will go out to the "ports" list > for testing shortly. This change reduced 100 lines from bsd.port.mk. > (Yeah I know, not much but it's a start. ;) 100 lines is 100 lines!! Thats almost 9% by my count! > * You need a 1.x cvs tree, we can't have a 1.x cvs tree on Freefall legally, > * and I am not suppose to have one here myself :-(. > > Oh, is that so? I thought the agreement was to stop distributing the > source, I didn't know that it included just having them.... First parties to the agreement agreed to ``Stop all use of'' Net/2 derived code. Reading it is a ``use''. This does not effect 2nd parties like you, but since freefall does sit on WC property it is probably best that the bits are not on there any longer. > * > But that doesn't mean we should try to keep them separated as much as > * > possible. > * > * That may not mean it, but I am pretty sure the standing idea here is > * that ports should not contaminate /usr/src with port specific changes. > > Ayyyyy sorry, I meant to type "that does't mean we shouldn't try". We > are in agreement here. ;) ^^^^^^^^^ :-) Mean what you say, argghhh.. I mean, say what you mean :-):-) > * > Where can I find the old mail archives? > * > * /home/mail/archive on freefall. > > I already looked there, they don't have mails older than a few months. > That's why I asked for "old" mail archives. :) Did you look at the list.`date`.gz files?? I see dates on the compressed versions going back into 1994 for the commit logs, but your right, the hackers list only goes back 1 archive. Did someone trash the mail??? > * Julians reply was before I patched it, which was before I remeber the > * idea was that it would be a symlink to the location of ports. If > * Julian and Jordan say nuke it still, then go nuke it, but like I said > * in the opening. Any site complaining about lost functionality lands > * right in your lap. > > Ok, well I'll wait a few more days to give people to voice their > opinions before nuking it. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 08:29:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA23349 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:29:19 -0700 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA23340 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:29:18 -0700 Received: from uucp4.UU.NET by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyzub12754; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:29:09 -0400 Received: from sawmill.UUCP by uucp4.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:29:14 -0400 Received: by sawmill.uucp (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.8) id ; Mon, 24 Jul 95 10:28 EST Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 10:28 EST From: sawmill!rjk@uunet.uu.net (Richard Kuhns) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: "Everything" install from the 2.0.5 CD Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've just finished installing on a machine without any kind of network access, and I'd like to mention 2 problems. I chose the `Everything' installation option. When I try to make a new kernel, most of the include files can't be found. Apparently fixed by adding `-I /usr/include', but is that how I should do it? I'm actually assuming that a symbolic link is missing; if so, can anyone tell me where it should go? Second: when I tried to set the timezone, the time/date it asked me to approve was nowhere close to correct. I tried several times; finally, I approved a date in the year 2002, figuring that I could dig thru and adjust it manually. It turned out that I didn't need to -- everything was fine. Should this message have gone to the bugs list? I can't use send-pr (yet), since the machine I'm installing on couldn't actually send it anywhere, and I'm assuming that the bugs list is processed automatically. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 09:00:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA24612 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:00:52 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA24606 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:00:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA03246; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:02:33 -0400 From: jfieber@grendel.csc.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199507241602.MAA03246@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507241519.IAA18512@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jul 24, 95 08:19:34 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 824 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > I already looked there, they don't have mails older than a few months. > > That's why I asked for "old" mail archives. :) > > Did you look at the list.`date`.gz files?? I see dates on the compressed > versions going back into 1994 for the commit logs, but your right, the > hackers list only goes back 1 archive. Did someone trash the mail??? I believe that a lot was lost some time ago in the auto-mounting incident on freefall. However, for the www interface to them (http://www.freebsd.org/How/mail-archive.html) I had (and still have) a duplicate copy tucked away elsewhere which was spared. It goes back to May 1994. You can either use the www interface or go directly to /usr/local/www/database/text. -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ========== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 09:10:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA24991 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:10:05 -0700 Received: from quadrophenia.ucdavis.edu (quadrophenia.ucdavis.edu [128.120.226.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA24984 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:10:04 -0700 Received: (from ccjason@localhost) by quadrophenia.ucdavis.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA29176 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:10:06 -0700 From: Jason Gabler Message-Id: <199507241610.JAA29176@quadrophenia.ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: your mail To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:10:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <21337.806374338@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 21, 95 05:52:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1325 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks, I was wondering if you have heard of the lack of [fcg]cvt and [fcg]convert in FreeBSD libraries and include files? I have found these functions on SunOS, Solaris, and HP-UX. I figured since they are on SunOS (and I believ they are POSIX) they would be in FreeBSD. I have searched the libraries, the include files, tons of brains of friends and other FreeBSD users to find these functions or their equivalents. Could you perhaps point me in the right direction or let me know if they or some equivlanets simply dont exist? Oh, and if me getting an answer to this question requires me to be on this list, please add me, thanx. -- Vale, jason .,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., ` Jason Gabler jygabler@ucdavis.edu ` ' campus office: 916-752-9215 home office: 415-752-1969 ' '----------------------------------------------------------------------` ` Schizophrenic? I'm bleeding Quadrophenic ' '----------------------------------------------------------------------` ' Distributed Computing Analysis & Support, Information Technology, UCD' ` Kerberos/Security X Windows Support DCN Sys Admin ` `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 09:15:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA25366 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:15:29 -0700 Received: from emory.mathcs.emory.edu (emory.mathcs.emory.edu [128.140.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA25357 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:15:27 -0700 Received: by emory.mathcs.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_mathcs.4.0.15) via UUCP id AA02092 ; Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:15:26 -0400 Received: (from jan@localhost) by bagend.atl.ga.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03646; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:59:52 -0400 From: Jan Isley Message-Id: <199507241559.LAA03646@bagend.atl.ga.us> Subject: Re: "Everything" install from the 2.0.5 CD To: sawmill!rjk@uunet.uu.net (Richard Kuhns) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Kuhns" at Jul 24, 95 10:28:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1428 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Richard Kuhns wrote: > I chose the `Everything' installation option. When I try to make a new > kernel, most of the include files can't be found. Apparently fixed by > adding `-I /usr/include', but is that how I should do it? I'm actually > assuming that a symbolic link is missing; if so, can anyone tell me where > it should go? Something broke. I have done dozens and dozens of installs and I never saw this. > Second: when I tried to set the timezone, the time/date it asked me to > approve was nowhere close to correct. I tried several times; finally, I > approved a date in the year 2002, figuring that I could dig thru and adjust > it manually. It turned out that I didn't need to -- everything was fine. If your CMOS clock is set for local time and you choose that option when setting the timezone, when it asks you "is this time correct" it shows you universal time... not local time. If you answer "yes" when you reboot the time will be "correct". > Should this message have gone to the bugs list? I can't use send-pr (yet), > since the machine I'm installing on couldn't actually send it anywhere, and > I'm assuming that the bugs list is processed automatically. This is a "questions" question, I think. -- Jan Isley If you couldn't find any weirdness, maybe we'll just have to make some! FreeBSD(2.0.5)vergnugen -- Hobbes -- Hobbes From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 09:52:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA26900 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:52:46 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA26894 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:52:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA01310 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:51:27 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Satoshi Asami , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:19:34 PDT." <199507241519.IAA18512@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:51:27 +0100 Message-ID: <1308.806604687@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199507241519.IAA18512@gndrsh.aac.dev.com>, "Rodney W. Grimes" write s: >Did you look at the list.`date`.gz files?? I see dates on the compressed >versions going back into 1994 for the commit logs, but your right, the >hackers list only goes back 1 archive. Did someone trash the mail??? Err - remember that slight accident Jordan had with AMD and freefall's disks...? It cleaned out most of the non-commit archives, although why the commit archives remained is a mystery to me... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 09:57:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA27099 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:57:16 -0700 Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.191.196.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA27093 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:57:11 -0700 Received: by misery.sdf.com id <1101>; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:55:00 +0100 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:54:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Richard Kuhns cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Everything" install from the 2.0.5 CD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Jul 1995, Richard Kuhns wrote: > I chose the `Everything' installation option. When I try to make a new > kernel, most of the include files can't be found. Apparently fixed by > adding `-I /usr/include', but is that how I should do it? I'm actually > assuming that a symbolic link is missing; if so, can anyone tell me where > it should go? What does your kernel config file look like? In what directory are you running make? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 10:04:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA27420 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:04:02 -0700 Received: from FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at (gopher.fim.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.100.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA27393 ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:03:50 -0700 Received: by FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA24558; Mon, 24 Jul 95 19:09:50 +0200 Received: from scotty (scotty [192.168.1.1]) by uhura (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA00151; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:21:30 +0200 Received: (from cg@localhost) by scotty (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA00172; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:22:48 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:22:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: "DI. Christian Gusenbauer" Reply-To: cg@fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at To: FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: panic: vm_page_free with -current Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! A kernel built today panics while booting the machine. I get the following messages: ncr0 targ 1?: ERROR (81:40) (8-28-0) (8/13) @(1008:0). reg: da 10 c0 13 47 8 1 1f 1 8 81 28 80 0 8 0 ncr0: restart (fatal error). sd0 (ncr0:1:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 ff) @f0670200 sd0 (ncr0:1:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 ff) @f0670a00 vm_page_free: offset(0), bmapped(1), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0) panic vm_page_free: freeing busy page I don't know if the panic is triggerd by the ncr fault or vice versa. The only thing I really know is, that my last kernel (7-15-95) works fine :-) Any clues? Christian. -- Christian Gusenbauer "The best way you can accelerate windows, cg@fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at is through one." - Ivan Wheelwright From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 10:19:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA28122 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:19:09 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28116 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:19:02 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA25914; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 03:14:55 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 03:14:55 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507241714.DAA25914@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>The Linux driver has (had?) some optional support to help getty handle >>this. After the last close of cuaa, sleeping opens of ttyd return >>EAGAIN. This gives getty a chance to send the AT command. >Does EAGAIN allowed on open by POSIX? No. "... opening a terminal device file with the O_NONBLOCK flag clear shall cause the process to block until the terminal device is ready and available. The CLOCAL flag can also affect open()." [Opening terminal device files with O_NONBLOCK set is supposed to always work if the file permissions allow it. We probably break this by returning EBUSY for some exclusive access and bidirectional cases.] Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 10:24:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA28568 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:24:50 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28559 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:24:47 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA19272; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:24:17 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507241724.KAA19272@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1308.806604687@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Jul 24, 95 05:51:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 826 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <199507241519.IAA18512@gndrsh.aac.dev.com>, "Rodney W. Grimes" write > s: > >Did you look at the list.`date`.gz files?? I see dates on the compressed > >versions going back into 1994 for the commit logs, but your right, the > >hackers list only goes back 1 archive. Did someone trash the mail??? > > Err - remember that slight accident Jordan had with AMD and freefall's > disks...? It cleaned out most of the non-commit archives, although why > the commit archives remained is a mystery to me... I thought someone restored all the mail from a mirror site??? Also we are winging along without backups now for almost 60 days... this is not good :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 11:00:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA00802 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:00:31 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00795 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:00:29 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA23226 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:55:51 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HT9DSY6REO004QRS@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:51:22 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id UAA04246 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:03:33 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:03:33 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: panic after fdformat/disklabel To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Message-id: <199507241803.UAA04246@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just tried the following fdformat /dev/rfd0a disklabel -w -r fd0d floppy3 (was not sure if the syntax was correct) *poof* Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x20f0162 fault code = supervisor read, page not present ip = 0x8:0xf0191234 --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 11:11:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA01447 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:11:53 -0700 Received: from Relay1.Austria.EU.net (relay1.Austria.EU.net [192.92.138.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA01439 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:11:50 -0700 From: Marino.Ladavac@aut.alcatel.at Received: from aut.alcatel.at (dnisun.aut.alcatel.at) by Relay1.Austria.EU.net with SMTP id AA28967 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:07:34 +0200 Received: from atuhc16 by aut.alcatel.at (4.1/SMI-4.1/AAA-1.29/main) id AA11112; Mon, 24 Jul 95 20:04:59 +0200 Message-Id: <9507241804.AA11112@atuhc16.aut.alcatel.at> Received: by atuhc16 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01249; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:07:19 +0200 Subject: Re: LInux sendmsg - DCE RPC To: mtp@zso.dec.com Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 20:07:18 METDST Cc: ladavac%atuhc16@dnisun.aut.alcatel.at, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: Marino.Ladavac@aut.alcatel.at Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <3umpb8$2v7@usenet.pa.dec.com> you wrote: Our port of DCE RPC to Linux requires sendmsg() and recvmsg() -- Services that send and receive messages from sockets using a "struct msghdr" data structure. 1) Are these services supported on a version of Linux later that 1.2.8? If not, do such plans exist? 2) If not, can these services be built on top of send() and recv()? Regards, /mtp Frankly, I can not answer the question 1. As far as question 2 is concerned, to the best of my knowledge no, in the case that some special features of sendmsg are needed: namely, sending and receiving access rights (i.e. file descriptors.) AFAIK, Linux did not support sendto/recvfrom either, but that info is very old. If DCE needs passing access tokens (using msg_accrights or similar field in struct msghdr,) I do not know if the needed functionality is at all provided by Linux. On a tangent, I am very interested in your port, especially the source availability. The reason for this is two-fold: - I am presently working on a sizable project employing DCE-RPC technology, and would like to be able to have a private test bed at home; - related to the test bed, I run a FreeBSD installation at home and would be very much interested in a port--as a matter of fact, would be willing to help porting it myself. Incidentally, the release 2.0.5 of FreeBSD seems to support all of recv/ recvfrom/recvmsg and their send counterparts (this is according to the manpages alone, since I did not use them myself.) With respect, Marino Ladavac (ladavac@aut.alcatel.at) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBMBPhHUDsDQ12Y7VRAQGoTwQArChgqOZTIfQr3meKtkZr7uh1AddWu60W Ws0GS4Ake5njBAS6fSnEaLxICqUIrbPRQDOpo/sFxQBxf32tyUXs3fxX6N/Fh2CO KUba8ihxf2Fs7dvhCt2Eb+7jZ5DTftLRh1jDNkZmDl8islVrBtHVsENXDgwHYmR9 wGw6eLv28d0= =Vhhr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 11:23:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA02441 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:23:34 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA02433 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:23:31 -0700 Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA00731; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:19:03 -0700 From: "Steven G. Kargl" Message-Id: <199507241819.LAA00731@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: your mail To: ccjason@quadrophenia.ucdavis.edu (Jason Gabler) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507241610.JAA29176@quadrophenia.ucdavis.edu> from "Jason Gabler" at Jul 24, 95 09:10:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 964 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk According to Jason Gabler: > > > I was wondering if you have heard of the lack of > [fcg]cvt and [fcg]convert in FreeBSD libraries and include files? > I have found these functions on SunOS, Solaris, and HP-UX. I figured > since they are on SunOS (and I believ they are POSIX) they would > be in FreeBSD. I have searched the libraries, the include files, tons > of brains of friends and other FreeBSD users to find these functions > or their equivalents. > Could you perhaps point me in the right direction or let me > know if they or some equivlanets simply dont exist? > > Oh, and if me getting an answer to this question requires me to be > on this list, please add me, thanx. > These functions are not part of ANSI C (See Portability and the C Language by R. Jaeschke). I don't know their status with respect to POSIX, I doubt they're required by POSIX. Sprintf(), which is part of ANSI C and FreeBSD, provides the functionality of [fcg]cvt. sgk From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 11:25:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA02674 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:25:23 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA02658 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:25:19 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA07558; Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:16:44 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507241816.AA07558@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:16:43 MDT Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199507240023.KAA27013@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 24, 95 10:23:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >It's also broken because the wait for DCD on the blocking open is > >only in effect when the open count is 0. After one open as a > >non-blocking open, the reference count is one, and subsequent opens > >are not *supposed* to block. > > I disagree. POSIX requires it to block. Not blocking would cause > stupid behaviour such as `stty -f /dev/ttyd0' unblocking any getty > sleeping in open for /dev/ttyd0. Once the open has completed it is > hard to recover. No, it wouldn't do this. That's because the open in process is already past the flag check and is sleeping on the address tickled by the driver's DCD off-to-on processing. > 1.1.5 fiddles with the open count to make blocking work. There > can be any number of processes sleeping in open() and any number > of processes with it open (having opened it in nonblocking mode). This i the wrong thing to do. Probably it was done because the calling unit and non-calling unit devices were not being treated as logically seperate entities for that code. > 2.x doesn't fiddle with the open count yet, so blocking doesn't > work right if there is one or more nonblocking opens such as the > `stty -f' mentioned above. That's *gotta* be the wrong way to fix it. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 11:29:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA03065 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:29:00 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA03058 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:28:58 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA07597; Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:21:20 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507241821.AA07597@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:21:19 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199507232359.JAA26520@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 24, 95 09:59:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Maybe his modem is sending crap before raising DCD, and it's getting > >echoed before a read is issued by getty? This would be a driver > >bug. > > The driver is careful not to enable ECHO by default (it mostly ignores > the stupid defaults in . getty could cause the > problem by setting ECHO before setting the speed. I don't think it > does, although it takes 2 ioctls to set things. I was thinking in terms of FIFO queue depth, with characters in the FIFO but the FIFO not yet to the trigger level. Perhaps the FIFO should not be enabled when DTR is not present? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 11:32:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA03300 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:32:04 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03287 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:31:50 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HT9F8JP9A8004QOH@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:32:11 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id UAA04407 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:44:16 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:44:16 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: I hosed my system with a -current kernel To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Message-id: <199507241844.UAA04407@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Now blues cannot reboot anymore. I was experimenting why fdformat and subsequent disklabel of fd0d was causing panics. BTW, a newfs with subsequent floppy operations was causing the kernel panic, too. Now I cannot boot wd0a any longer. It says / not properly dismounted and before going to multiuser/before root is mounted the kernel panics. I tried some other kernels I had standing around in / to no avail. Now, how can I create a fixit floppy or a bootable floppy environment to do a fsck /dev/rwd0a from and some other sanity checkings? Please, it's urgent, blues is exporting some filesystems to my ftp mirror and I have to get up this machine asap. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 11:32:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA03321 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:32:08 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03294 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:32:03 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA27601; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:27:00 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:27:00 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507241827.EAA27601@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ccjason@quadrophenia.ucdavis.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I was wondering if you have heard of the lack of >[fcg]cvt and [fcg]convert in FreeBSD libraries and include files? >I have found these functions on SunOS, Solaris, and HP-UX. I figured I think [efg]cvt() are implementation details in some old versions of printf. sprintf() in %[efg] format is almost equivalent. I don't know what ccvt is. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 11:34:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA03943 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:34:40 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA03920 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:34:37 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA07622; Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:27:09 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507241827.AA07622@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:27:09 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199507240033.KAA27257@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 24, 95 10:33:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> It's not nice to have to specify the speed in more than one place, but > >> I regard that as a bug in getty or gettytab. getty thinks it owns the > >> ... > > >The port state information for incoming and outgoing communications > >on a given port should be maintained *seperately* for the tty devices > >accessing the port. Then this wouldn't be a problem. > > It is maintained separately. Read the man page. We're talking about > the problem that changes to the defaults for initial state can be > specified in either /etc/rc.serial or in /etc/gettytab, and it must be > specified in /etc/gettytab because getty doesn't trust the defaults and > it may want to autobaud, and setting it in /etc/rc.serial might fix the > original problem. This is really my whole problem with rc.serial, which could probably be argued for on the basis of CTS/RTS flow control, and maybe nothing else. It should be irrelevant what the new port speed is if the modem can't detect it. The current discussion is predicated on the modem being somehow able to detect it. The default baud being 9600 is not the problem. The modem being able to "magically" detect the baud which the port is set to *is* the problem. The only way to solve this thing is to find where the error is in the driver or in the getty or in the modem cable or in the modem settings and correct it. That way the modem can no longer detect the speed and the problem is eliminated. Doing the bogus getty changes is not the soloution. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 12:07:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA05671 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:07:24 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA05665 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:07:21 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA28245; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:04:34 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:04:34 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507241904.FAA28245@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >It's also broken because the wait for DCD on the blocking open is >> >only in effect when the open count is 0. After one open as a >> >non-blocking open, the reference count is one, and subsequent opens >> >are not *supposed* to block. >> >> I disagree. POSIX requires it to block. Not blocking would cause >> stupid behaviour such as `stty -f /dev/ttyd0' unblocking any getty >> sleeping in open for /dev/ttyd0. Once the open has completed it is >> hard to recover. >No, it wouldn't do this. >That's because the open in process is already past the flag check >and is sleeping on the address tickled by the driver's DCD off-to-on >processing. New blocking opens have to sleep on that address too. I thought you meant to wake everything up. Why do the wrong thing for new opens but not for old opens? It causes more obscure states that depend on ancient history. The same sleep address is used for DCD transitions and all input events in 2.x. Processes sleeping on it get woken up unnecessarily and have to go back to sleep if DCD and CLOCAL are still clear. >> 1.1.5 fiddles with the open count to make blocking work. There >> can be any number of processes sleeping in open() and any number >> of processes with it open (having opened it in nonblocking mode). >This i the wrong thing to do. Probably it was done because the >calling unit and non-calling unit devices were not being treated >as logically seperate entities for that code. I did it in vfs because it can't be done in the driver. The calling and non-calling unit were and remain as logically separate as possible. They have to block each other. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 12:14:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA05897 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:14:31 -0700 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA05887 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:14:22 -0700 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA29280 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:06:48 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 24 Jul 95 22:06:48 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA00448; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:02:08 +0400 To: bde@ZETA.ORG.AU, terry@cs.weber.edu Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <199507241714.DAA25914@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: <199507241714.DAA25914@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans at Tue, 25 Jul 1995 03:14:55 +1000 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:02:08 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 23 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1102 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199507241714.DAA25914@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: >>>The Linux driver has (had?) some optional support to help getty handle >>>this. After the last close of cuaa, sleeping opens of ttyd return >>>EAGAIN. This gives getty a chance to send the AT command. >>Does EAGAIN allowed on open by POSIX? >No. "... opening a terminal device file with the O_NONBLOCK flag clear >shall cause the process to block until the terminal device is ready and >available. The CLOCAL flag can also affect open()." [Opening terminal >device files with O_NONBLOCK set is supposed to always work if the file >permissions allow it. We probably break this by returning EBUSY for >some exclusive access and bidirectional cases.] Maybe we should allow open and return EBUSY on ioctls or writes? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 12:15:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA05958 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:15:00 -0700 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA05947 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:14:50 -0700 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA29278 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:06:48 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 24 Jul 95 22:06:48 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA00439; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:59:40 +0400 To: Bruce Evans , Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <9507241827.AA07622@cs.weber.edu> In-Reply-To: <9507241827.AA07622@cs.weber.edu>; from Terry Lambert at Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:27:09 MDT Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:59:40 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1847 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <9507241827.AA07622@cs.weber.edu> Terry Lambert writes: >This is really my whole problem with rc.serial, which could probably >be argued for on the basis of CTS/RTS flow control, and maybe nothing >else. >It should be irrelevant what the new port speed is if the modem can't >detect it. >The current discussion is predicated on the modem being somehow able to >detect it. >The default baud being 9600 is not the problem. The modem being able >to "magically" detect the baud which the port is set to *is* the problem. >The only way to solve this thing is to find where the error is in the >driver or in the getty or in the modem cable or in the modem settings >and correct it. Terry, you seems to miss a bit of discussion: situation is pretty clear: modem inherits speed of previous access, if it isn't configured to reset by DTR drop. It means that any dialout application which change speed becomes getty-killer. There is no error in the driver or in getty. Solution for it already exists: 1) Configure modem to gettytab speed and issue AT&W. 2) Configure modem to do ATZ on DTR drop. If we allow modem to not do ATZ on DTR drop, more complex things will be involved in driver and getty, namely: 1) Driver must issue "AT" command at first open to give modem chance to sense speed. 2) driver must restore dialin speed in close and issue "AT" command to give modem chance to sense speed. 3) getty must setup initial device with gettytab speed for #1 & #2 will be successful. Doing "AT" commands in the driver not nice thing, of course. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 12:19:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA06254 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:19:45 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA06246 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:19:40 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA28508; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:15:35 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:15:35 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507241915.FAA28508@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I was thinking in terms of FIFO queue depth, with characters in the >FIFO but the FIFO not yet to the trigger level. >Perhaps the FIFO should not be enabled when DTR is not present? There could be 1 byte of junk even without a fifo. I don't think this is the problem. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 12:24:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA06443 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:24:33 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA06437 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:24:22 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA28570; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:20:49 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:20:49 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507241920.FAA28570@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> It is maintained separately. Read the man page. We're talking about >> the problem that changes to the defaults for initial state can be >> specified in either /etc/rc.serial or in /etc/gettytab, and it must be >> specified in /etc/gettytab because getty doesn't trust the defaults and >> it may want to autobaud, and setting it in /etc/rc.serial might fix the >> original problem. >This is really my whole problem with rc.serial, which could probably >be argued for on the basis of CTS/RTS flow control, and maybe nothing >else. In Linux it is used to initialize IRQs etc. for recalcitrant h/w :-). >The default baud being 9600 is not the problem. The modem being able >to "magically" detect the baud which the port is set to *is* the problem. >The only way to solve this thing is to find where the error is in the >driver or in the getty or in the modem cable or in the modem settings >and correct it. This is hard to do when the person who has the problem is not part of this discussion. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 12:37:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA07102 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:37:11 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA07090 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:37:06 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA28751; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:29:23 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:29:23 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507241929.FAA28751@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>No. "... opening a terminal device file with the O_NONBLOCK flag clear >>shall cause the process to block until the terminal device is ready and >>available. The CLOCAL flag can also affect open()." [Opening terminal >>device files with O_NONBLOCK set is supposed to always work if the file >>permissions allow it. We probably break this by returning EBUSY for >>some exclusive access and bidirectional cases.] >Maybe we should allow open and return EBUSY on ioctls or writes? No. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 13:19:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA09337 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 13:19:15 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA09329 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 13:19:04 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA21729 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:38:17 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA28883 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:18:40 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA03931 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:57:08 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA00201 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:44:49 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199507241744.TAA00201@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: status of Future Domain/ sea driver test To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:44:48 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3074 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, I did some testing on the new sea driver ($Id: seagate.c,v 1.9 1995/07/13 15:01:38 jkh Exp $) I used 205R from the CD and plugged in the new driver. On the FD cards I had a Micropolis 1375 140Mb HD, a Archive Viper 2150S and a DEC RRD40 cdrom drive. Machine is a 386/25, with 8 Mb, WD1007 and 330Mb ESDI Micropolis. I tried 2 different FD boards, a TMC841 (WITHOUT BIOS prom, I don't have one..) and a FD950 (both with and without BIOS prom). Results for the 950: the card is correctly probed, either with or without the BIOS installed. In my setup all devices on the SCSI bus were correctly recognised and worked fine. I stressed the whole shebang for a few hours: copying from ESDI -> SCSI disk, from SCSI disk -> SCSI tape (and the reverse), reading from CDROM. Of course these tests ran concurrently to see if that mattered. It didn't. So: for the 950 things look sunny, I didn't find any problems. 950 syslog entries: Jul 24 17:48:19 bell /kernel: sea1 at 0x0 irq 3 maddr 0xde000 msize 16384 on isa Jul 24 17:48:19 bell /kernel: Jul 24 17:48:19 bell /kernel: sea1: type Future Domain TMC-885/TMC-950 Jul 24 17:48:19 bell /kernel: sea1 waiting for scsi devices to settle Jul 24 17:48:20 bell /kernel: (sea1:0:0): "MICROP 1375 13V0" type 0 fixed SCSI 1 Jul 24 17:48:20 bell /kernel: sd0(sea1:0:0): Direct-Access 139MB (285040 512 byte sectors) Jul 24 17:48:20 bell /kernel: (sea1:2:0): "ARCHIVE VIPER 150 21247 -005" type 1 removable SCSI 1 Jul 24 17:48:20 bell /kernel: st0(sea1:2:0): Sequential-Access st0: Archive Viper 150 is a known rogue Jul 24 17:48:20 bell /kernel: density code 0x0, 512-byte blocks, write-enabled Jul 24 17:48:21 bell /kernel: (sea1:4:0): "DEC RRD40 TM DEC 280E" type 5 removable SCSI 1 Jul 24 17:48:21 bell /kernel: cd0(sea1:4:0): CD-ROM cd present.[1057708 x 512 byte records] Results for the 841: The card is seen by the probe and recognised as a Seagate ST01/02: bell /kernel: sea1: type Seagate ST01/ST02 bell /kernel: sea1 waiting for scsi devices to settle Looks promising. When no SCSI devices are connected or not switched on the kernel continues it's normal bootsequence. When SCSI devices are present the train derails during the SCSI device probe: bell /kernel: sea: unknown phase: 13 bell last message repeated 110 times After switching of the power of the 140Mb HD (target ID 0): bell /kernel: sea1/0/0 unexpected target disconnect bell /kernel: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff irq 13 on motherboard etc. etc. And the boot continues just fine. I also tried a boot without the disk at ID0 but had to repeat the power off trick for each of the scsi devices: bell /kernel: sea1/4/0 unexpected target disconnect bell /kernel: sea1/2/0 unexpected target disconnect Thats it for now. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 16:32:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA24275 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:32:59 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA24255 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:32:55 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA01116 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:21:16 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507242351.JAA01116@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Ultrastor unhappiness/crashing To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:21:15 +0930 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2870 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hiho peoples; this is a quick runpast for comments before spending gobs of time digging deeper. The relevant bits : Jul 25 00:23:58 borax /kernel: uha0: reading board settings, dma=5 int=11 id=7 Jul 25 00:23:58 borax /kernel: uha0 at 0x330-0x33f irq 11 drq 5 on isa Jul 25 00:23:58 borax /kernel: (uha0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST11200N 9300" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 Jul 25 00:23:58 borax /kernel: sd0(uha0:0:0): Direct-Access 1005MB (2059140 512 byte sectors) Jul 25 00:23:58 borax /kernel: (uha0:1:0): "MICROP 4110-09TBCU0322L HT01" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 Jul 25 00:23:58 borax /kernel: sd1(uha0:1:0): Direct-Access 1002MB (2053880 512 byte sectors) Jul 25 00:23:58 borax /kernel: (uha0:4:0): "TANDBERG TDC 3600 =08:" type 1 remo vable SCSI 2 Jul 25 00:23:58 borax /kernel: st0(uha0:4:0): Sequential-Access st0: Tandberg td c3600 is a known rogue Jul 25 00:23:59 borax /kernel: density code 0x0, drive empty Jul 25 00:23:59 borax /kernel: (uha0:6:0): "MATSHITA CD-ROM CR-503 1.0f" type 5 removable SCSI 2 Jul 25 00:23:59 borax /kernel: cd0(uha0:6:0): CD-ROM cd present.[1057708 x 512 b yte records] Jul 25 00:03:59 borax /kernel: sd0(uha0:0:0): host adapter code inconsistency Jul 25 00:03:59 borax /kernel: cd0(uha0:6:0): host adapter code inconsistency Jul 25 00:04:00 borax /kernel: cd0(uha0:6:0): host adapter code inconsistency Jul 25 00:23:54 borax /kernel: cd0(uha0:6:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 Jul 25 00:23:54 borax /kernel: cd0(uha0:6:0): Power on, reset, or bus device re set occurred Jul 25 00:23:54 borax /kernel: panic: free: multiple frees Jul 25 00:23:54 borax /kernel: Jul 25 00:23:54 borax /kernel: syncing disks... 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 giving up There are lots of the code inconsistency messages (maybe 20 or so, for both sd0 and cd0), and the system does the auto-reboot thing. The same hardware was running 2.0R without any problems. The message appears to be generated when the driver returns XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP /* driver failed to perform operation */ which is a bit ominous 8) Looking through isa/ultra14.c, there aren't a great number of these returns without additional printfs; I don't have GOTTABEJOKING defined, so its possible that uha_get_mscp() is failing. I'm late for work, so I can't chase this further just now, but anything that anyone has to contribute would be useful. This is the first time I've had this crash, although the inconsistency messages have been piling up ever since 2.0.5 (one of the last ALPHAS) was installed. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 18:08:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA29552 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:08:27 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA29532 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:08:22 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <01699-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:06:59 +1000 Received: from saturn.mincom.oz.au by minbne.mincom.oz.au with SMTP id AA27471 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:43:00 +1000 Received: by saturn.mincom.oz.au id AA23551 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:43:13 +1000 From: Ian Holland Message-Id: <199507242343.AA23551@saturn.mincom.oz.au> Subject: Who killed the cache? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:43:12 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: ianh@mincom.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1820 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I thought I'd relate an experience that I've just had that may help others, as well as illuminate the vagarities of the hardware that FreeBSD has to put up with. The system I refer to is on cheap (relatively) hardware running FreeBSD 1.1.5. A while ago, I asked the questions list for possible causes of stray interrupts (especially during gcc execution) and occasional system reboots (not panics). The concensus appeared to be bad cache chips, or even a poorly designed motherboard. So, being the optimistic type, I tried disabling the cache, and things appeared to work okay. After several months of procrastination, I decided that I'd replace the cache, but wanted to totally convince myself that it *was* the cache. So I disabled the cache and began to thrash the machine (by repeatedly recompiling a shallow source tree). After six recompilations, gcc fell over with an interrupt. This was a tad surprising, and I must admit, a bit disappointing. By this stage I was beginning to resign myself to parting with some "readies" for replacement components, when I remembered that the system appeared more stable during winter (that's now folks). So, off came the cover, out came the pedestal fan, and with a large box and a bit off counterbalancing, I had an external cooling system. Ran the tests again, and after 30 odd cycles, my confidence was growing. Out came xv and xboard, still with the compilations in the background. After 300+ recompilations I was feeling a bit cocky. The upshot being that I thrashed the machine like it ain't been thrashed before, and it just sailed on through with nary a wimper. Now, all I need to do is find a more permanent cooling system. -- Ian Holland DOS - a case study in Mincom Pty Ltd cerebral ischaemia. ianh@mincom.oz.au From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 19:26:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA01749 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:26:20 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA01739 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:26:15 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA20558; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:25:43 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507250225.TAA20558@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Who killed the cache? To: ianh@mincom.oz.au Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507242343.AA23551@saturn.mincom.oz.au> from "Ian Holland" at Jul 25, 95 09:43:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3049 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I thought I'd relate an experience that I've just had that may > help others, as well as illuminate the vagarities of the hardware > that FreeBSD has to put up with. The system I refer to is on > cheap (relatively) hardware running FreeBSD 1.1.5. > > A while ago, I asked the questions list for possible causes of > stray interrupts (especially during gcc execution) and occasional > system reboots (not panics). > > The concensus appeared to be bad cache chips, or even a poorly > designed motherboard. So, being the optimistic type, I tried > disabling the cache, and things appeared to work okay. > > After several months of procrastination, I decided that I'd replace > the cache, but wanted to totally convince myself that it *was* the > cache. So I disabled the cache and began to thrash the machine > (by repeatedly recompiling a shallow source tree). After six > recompilations, gcc fell over with an interrupt. This was a tad > surprising, and I must admit, a bit disappointing. > > By this stage I was beginning to resign myself to parting with > some "readies" for replacement components, when I remembered that > the system appeared more stable during winter (that's now folks). > So, off came the cover, out came the pedestal fan, and with a > large box and a bit off counterbalancing, I had an external cooling > system. > > Ran the tests again, and after 30 odd cycles, my confidence was growing. > Out came xv and xboard, still with the compilations in the background. > After 300+ recompilations I was feeling a bit cocky. The upshot being > that I thrashed the machine like it ain't been thrashed before, and it > just sailed on through with nary a wimper. > > Now, all I need to do is find a more permanent cooling system. If you have a good DMM check the output of your power supply, if it is not withing 4.875 to 5.125V on +5 and 11.5 to 12.5V on +12 replace it. Though the components are spec'ed +-5% VCC by the time you get power distributed accross the board it can be quite a ways from what you measure at the power connector. A power supply running at 5.25V causes excessive component heat, and with a marginal timing in the design can often cause really strange behavior. A power supply running at 4.75V pushes components towards there slow timing spec, and thus the operate better if the temp is kept down. So either a supply to high or to low can cause what appear to be temperature related problems. A high quality power supply will be within 4.95 to 5.05V and 11.9 to 12.1V, a good heavy 2oz copy power/ground plane pair in a MB will have less than 0.05V loss accross the whole board. One other really rare one I have seen (only at TRW where they have some rather large current drawing dual ethernet cards and they stack 4 of them in a box) is the power supply connector at the motherboard litterly burned due to current overload :-). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 19:59:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA03641 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:59:47 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA03635 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:59:41 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12919; Mon, 24 Jul 95 20:50:08 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507250250.AA12919@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 20:50:08 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka" at Jul 24, 95 10:59:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Terry, you seems to miss a bit of discussion: situation is > pretty clear: modem inherits speed of previous access, if > it isn't configured to reset by DTR drop. That's easy. The modem is bogus and is incorrectly configured to work around the bogosity. Sounds like an Avatek modem. Jumper it/configure it to reset as if powered off then on on an on-to-off DTR transition. Problem solved. If the modem can't be correctly configured, get a new modem, or build a curcuit that will actually power cycle the modem on DTR on-to-off transition (a relatively trivial circuit). If the modem can't be correctly configgured, I *STRONGLY* urge replacing the modem. A Tandy DT1200 modem won't pass ^N characters, and I would hardly suggest hacking all comm software to avoid ^N to make the bogus modem happy. > It means that any dialout application which change speed > becomes getty-killer. > There is no error in the driver or in getty. > Solution for it already exists: > 1) Configure modem to gettytab speed and issue AT&W. > 2) Configure modem to do ATZ on DTR drop. Yes yes yes. > If we allow modem to not do ATZ on DTR drop, more complex > things will be involved in driver and getty, namely: > 1) Driver must issue "AT" command at first open > to give modem chance to sense speed. No no no. The Modem is idiotically "sensing" the speed. This is the problem in the first place. The driver should not "set" the modem, especially when these commands aren't going to work on non-AT command set modems that are otherwise non-bogus. > 2) driver must restore dialin speed in close and issue "AT" > command to give modem chance to sense speed. No, the driver must drop the DTR and lett the modem set the speed based on the negotiation is arrives at with the remote modem. > 3) getty must setup initial device with gettytab speed > for #1 & #2 will be successful. Yes. After the open has completed, since we do not want an intervening bidirectional use of the modem by a program doing a callout (ie: uucp) to screw the getty settings. The calling out program will cause an on-to-off DTR transition on final close of the calling unit device. Then the device will time the period of DTR down to > 250ms (the RS323C standard maximum drop time before a DTR must be acted upon) and after the time period has elapsed, it will raise DTR because of the pending open on the non-calling unit device. > Doing "AT" commands in the driver not nice thing, of course. Nor is it an allowable modification to getty. What is the purpose of sending these cmmands to set the port speed for the modem prior to dialing (this is what a locked port baud rate setting on a modem is for, BTW)? Is it to avoid having to do one of: o Lock the port baud rate between the computer and the modem o Have the user use the break character to cause the getty to rotor through its baud rate list o Use an mgetty type program to interpret the baud string following the connect message the three standard ways of setting the getty/modem communications rate? If so... why? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 20:02:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA03844 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:02:46 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA03836 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:02:41 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12936; Mon, 24 Jul 95 20:55:15 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507250255.AA12936@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 20:55:15 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka" at Jul 24, 95 11:02:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>>The Linux driver has (had?) some optional support to help getty handle > >>>this. After the last close of cuaa, sleeping opens of ttyd return > >>>EAGAIN. This gives getty a chance to send the AT command. > > >>Does EAGAIN allowed on open by POSIX? > > >No. "... opening a terminal device file with the O_NONBLOCK flag clear > >shall cause the process to block until the terminal device is ready and > >available. The CLOCAL flag can also affect open()." [Opening terminal > >device files with O_NONBLOCK set is supposed to always work if the file > >permissions allow it. We probably break this by returning EBUSY for > >some exclusive access and bidirectional cases.] > > Maybe we should allow open and return EBUSY on ioctls or writes? A non-blocking open of the regular device when the calling unit device is in use is to return EWOULDBLOCK. A blocking open is to block until the calling unit is not busy and an off-to-on transition of DCD has occurred following the on-to-off--on of the DTR from the calling unit close to ensure that the DCD from the outgoing call is not misinterpreted by getty as an incoming call. The concept of "modem control" is seperate from the concept of calling unit. It seems the interpretation of POSIX above is being used incorrectly. The flag in question is on the tty struct, *not* on the open. The O_NONBLOCK flag on the open is in a different section of the standard. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 20:15:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA04489 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:15:36 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA04483 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:15:33 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12964; Mon, 24 Jul 95 21:08:01 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507250308.AA12964@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 21:08:01 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199507241904.FAA28245@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 25, 95 05:04:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> >It's also broken because the wait for DCD on the blocking open is > >> >only in effect when the open count is 0. After one open as a > >> >non-blocking open, the reference count is one, and subsequent opens > >> >are not *supposed* to block. > >> > >> I disagree. POSIX requires it to block. Not blocking would cause > >> stupid behaviour such as `stty -f /dev/ttyd0' unblocking any getty > >> sleeping in open for /dev/ttyd0. Once the open has completed it is > >> hard to recover. > > >No, it wouldn't do this. > > >That's because the open in process is already past the flag check > >and is sleeping on the address tickled by the driver's DCD off-to-on > >processing. > > New blocking opens have to sleep on that address too. I thought you > meant to wake everything up. Why do the wrong thing for new opens but > not for old opens? It causes more obscure states that depend on > ancient history. The same sleep address is used for DCD transitions > and all input events in 2.x. Processes sleeping on it get woken up > unnecessarily and have to go back to sleep if DCD and CLOCAL are > still clear. Once the non-blocking-open flag has been set on the tty, it is not reset until the final close. The flag for this is on the tty or the calling unit, not in the driver. Otherwise you'd have to dup massive amounts of code to support a new serial card into the card-specific driver. This would be bad. The sleep addresses must be different for the tty and the calling unit because of this. Since comms outgoing and getty incoming use the calling unit and the tty respectively, the sleeping open by the getty is not woken up by the DCD going high nor by a retrofitted signal as a result of the flag bit in the calling unit having been changed. > >> 1.1.5 fiddles with the open count to make blocking work. There > >> can be any number of processes sleeping in open() and any number > >> of processes with it open (having opened it in nonblocking mode). > > >This i the wrong thing to do. Probably it was done because the > >calling unit and non-calling unit devices were not being treated > >as logically seperate entities for that code. > > I did it in vfs because it can't be done in the driver. The calling > and non-calling unit were and remain as logically separate as possible. > They have to block each other. I agree that they have to block each other, but this is done seperately at the vfs level. The signals processing is at the bottom end of the VFS level, but it should still be at the VFS level. The VFS level needs to treat signal change notificcations from the serial driver as events, an the processing of those events will cause a wakeup to be sent, but the wakeup will be only to the one or the other of the calling unit or the tty. Otherwise, your getty open will complete on the tty when the DCD goes high on the outbound call. If you are using the blocking to arbitrate whether the signal is acted upon rather than whether the signal is sent, then the sleep addresses have been confused. In effect, state changes are in fact soft interrupts with two potential but only one active delivery vector. With this in mind, I think that modem control, if not arbitrated by a minor number bit, should also be in the /etc/rc.serial with the RTS/CTS controls. Can't kill that damn thing. 8-(. But at least we can relegate it to controlling things that on a Sun machine would require a kernel rebuild with a new flags variable. If you're in there, the RI signal would be a nice option for the open complete instead of the DCD so we can write our own mgetty and get it right (no lock file cruft for incoming connections, PERIOD). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 20:36:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA05335 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:36:09 -0700 Received: from mail1.is.net (mail1.is.net [198.69.24.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA05329 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:36:07 -0700 Received: from user1.is.net (user1 [198.69.24.10]) by mail1.is.net (8.6.11/8.6.11-1) with ESMTP id XAA15095 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:37:46 -0400 Received: by user1.is.net (8.6.11/SMI-SVR4) id XAA13041; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:37:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:37:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Wallace Subject: Install problems? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I got the 2.0.5-SNAP last night and installed on a 486-33 w/ 8MB ram on a 80MB hard disk with a 5MB dos par and a 20M /, 16M swap, and the rest for /usr. setup a password for root then rebooted and I get the Boot prompt and hit enter and it tries to boot wd0(1,a)/kernal but just sits there any help or where to look would be great thanks. Also my goal is to make this machine a router hooked to a Novell 3.12 network and do some WEB Server and Mail list things were should I look for information on these items? Wayne From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 20:57:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA06421 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:57:25 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA06410 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:57:10 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA10084; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:54:37 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:54:37 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507250354.NAA10084@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> New blocking opens have to sleep on that address too. I thought you >> meant to wake everything up. Why do the wrong thing for new opens but >> not for old opens? It causes more obscure states that depend on >> ancient history. The same sleep address is used for DCD transitions >> and all input events in 2.x. Processes sleeping on it get woken up >> unnecessarily and have to go back to sleep if DCD and CLOCAL are >> still clear. >Once the non-blocking-open flag has been set on the tty, it is not There is no non-blocking flag on the tty in BSD. The file flag O_NONBLOCK controls blocking. It may be different for different instances of open(). >reset until the final close. The flag for this is on the tty or The file flag may be reset and set many times before the final close. See fcntl(2). The flag is passed to drivers for each read(), write(), etc., so drivers see it as constant for each syscall. >The sleep addresses must be different for the tty and the calling >unit because of this. Since comms outgoing and getty incoming use They aren't. They soon will be. >> I did it in vfs because it can't be done in the driver. The calling >> and non-calling unit were and remain as logically separate as possible. >> They have to block each other. >I agree that they have to block each other, but this is done seperately >at the vfs level. The signals processing is at the bottom end of the VFS vfs counting works fine for separate devices. It fails for single devices when a process is sleeping in open. >If you're in there, the RI signal would be a nice option for the open >complete instead of the DCD so we can write our own mgetty and get it >right (no lock file cruft for incoming connections, PERIOD). It's on my list. select() on modem status change. Best used on control/ status devices that you can look at without affecting the standard devices. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 22:06:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA08968 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:06:45 -0700 Received: from ni.net (ni1.ni.net [192.215.247.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA08960 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:06:43 -0700 Received: from hgac.com (hgac.hgac.com) by ni.net (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA09566; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:06:33 -0700 Received: from [199.107.69.186] by hgac.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:06:15 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:06:16 -0700 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) From: harry@hgac.com (Harry Goldschmitt) Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka), jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, pas@tonesoft.com Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Terry, you seems to miss a bit of discussion: situation is >> pretty clear: modem inherits speed of previous access, if >> it isn't configured to reset by DTR drop. > >If the modem can't be correctly configured, get a new modem, or >build a curcuit that will actually power cycle the modem on DTR >on-to-off transition (a relatively trivial circuit). > I hate to butt in, most modern modems can be configured to a specific modem to modem connect speed (which we did), but I haven't seen one yet that can be configured for the modem to serial port speed! If you know of one, and can prove it works (not just theory), let me know. We tried three different modems, a 14.4 internal, a 28.8 internal and a 14.4 external, all from different companies. >If the modem can't be correctly configgured, I *STRONGLY* urge >replacing the modem. A Tandy DT1200 modem won't pass ^N characters, >and I would hardly suggest hacking all comm software to avoid ^N >to make the bogus modem happy. See above, and try it! >> It means that any dialout application which change speed >> becomes getty-killer. >> There is no error in the driver or in getty. >> Solution for it already exists: >> 1) Configure modem to gettytab speed and issue AT&W. >> 2) Configure modem to do ATZ on DTR drop. > >Yes yes yes. > No no no. That's not what's happening in our case. We boot up, use slattach at a speed of 38400, or whatever. It works at 38400. We kill slattach, configure etc/ttys so that the port is on, and do a kill -HUP 1. Guess what, dials to the port connect at 9600. Somewhere in the driver, characters like AT are being sent at 9600, which happens to be the ttydefaults.h setting. Not believing our eyes, we tried three different brands of modems, two internal and one external. Same symptoms. We then modified /etc/ttys back to turn the port off and kill init, yet again. We then restart slattach at 38400, everything is fine. We also tried the experiment with cu and tip. Every thing works but getty. Sounds to me like the getty-killer is getty! Does anyone have a 14.4 or 28.8 modem? Can you beg, borrow or steal one. If you don't think I'm telling the truth, try the above experiments! >> If we allow modem to not do ATZ on DTR drop, more complex >> things will be involved in driver and getty, namely: >> 1) Driver must issue "AT" command at first open >> to give modem chance to sense speed. > >No no no. The Modem is idiotically "sensing" the speed. This is >the problem in the first place. The driver should not "set" the >modem, especially when these commands aren't going to work on >non-AT command set modems that are otherwise non-bogus. > How about a Hayes compatible driver to set the modem. The modem can't possibly know the modem to serial port speed until it can autobaud via an AT command for Hayes. There is nothing in the RS-232 lines that can cause the modem to do much until some data is transmitted - Tx. I agree that the settings should be taken from the sio driver first, especiallly the lock device. But someone, somewhere will want to reset the speed for a particuar getty. On close, the port settings should probably be set back to the initial driver settings. Like I said, every application we tried worked properly, except getty. And it reset the port to ttydefaults. Harry Goldschmitt | harry@hgac.com 1226 Starlit Rd. | (714)494-6086 Laguna Beach, CA 92651-3035 | Fax:(714)494-3072 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 22:42:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA10429 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:42:52 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA10421 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:42:46 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA01884; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:28:44 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507250558.PAA01884@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: harry@hgac.com (Harry Goldschmitt) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:28:43 +0930 (CST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, ache@astral.msk.su, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, pas@tonesoft.com In-Reply-To: from "Harry Goldschmitt" at Jul 24, 95 10:06:16 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3050 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Harry Goldschmitt stands accused of saying: > I hate to butt in, most modern modems can be configured to a specific modem > to modem connect speed (which we did), but I haven't seen one yet that can > be configured for the modem to serial port speed! If you know of one, and > can prove it works (not just theory), let me know. We tried three different > modems, a 14.4 internal, a 28.8 internal and a 14.4 external, all from > different companies. There are plenty that can be locked to a fixed DTE speed; I name most Interlink modems, as well as many Dataplex models as just two examples. > No no no. That's not what's happening in our case. We boot up, use slattach > at a speed of 38400, or whatever. It works at 38400. We kill slattach, > configure etc/ttys so that the port is on, and do a kill -HUP 1. Guess > what, dials to the port connect at 9600. Somewhere in the driver, > characters like AT are being sent at 9600, which happens to be the > ttydefaults.h setting. Not believing our eyes, we tried three different Then your configuration is at fault. Getty should send _nothing_ until it sees DCD on the port. Try snooping the port with a terminal and see whether anything is getting dribbled. > Does anyone have a 14.4 or 28.8 modem? Can you beg, borrow or steal one. > If you don't think I'm telling the truth, try the above experiments! I and a number of local ISPs run 14K dialins supporting both user logins and SLIP without any such trouble. Are your /etc/ttys entries using getty.std or getty.38400? > How about a Hayes compatible driver to set the modem. The modem can't > possibly know the modem to serial port speed until it can autobaud via an > AT command for Hayes. There is nothing in the RS-232 lines that can cause > the modem to do much until some data is transmitted - Tx. I agree that the > settings should be taken from the sio driver first, especiallly the lock > device. But someone, somewhere will want to reset the speed for a > particuar getty. On close, the port settings should probably be set back > to the initial driver settings. Nonononono. This is braindeath. Any halfway worthwhile modem can be hardwired to a fixed DTE rate, or will remember the last DTE rate across a power-cycle. The modem should realistically assume that the DTE rate on the serial port is that to which is has been set, and any failure on the part of the serial port to maintain its end of this expectation can be considered to be broken. Having observed (and indeed depended upon) this expectation functioning countless times, I can happily say that it's a Good Thing. > Harry Goldschmitt | harry@hgac.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 24 23:43:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA12460 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:43:56 -0700 Received: from listserv.gmd.de (listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA12453 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:43:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199507250643.XAA12453@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: from listserv.gmd.de by listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v0.1a) with SMTP id 989B8E50 ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 8:32:09 +0200 Received: from VM.GMD.DE (MAILER) by DEARNAXP (MX V4.1 AXP) with BSMTP; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:32:08 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin MAILER@ESOC) by VM.GMD.DE (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 0474; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:31:07 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin VCAPUANO@ESOC) by VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1456; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:31:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 08:28:46 EST From: Vincenzo Capuano Organization: ESA - European Space Agency Subject: XFree86 and NumLock To: freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Sender: hackers-owner@FREEBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I see that to have menus working properly I have to turn off the Num Lock key. But, I would like to keep it ON. Are there any work-arounds to have num lock on and still can use the menus ? Thanks Vincenzo --- Vincenzo Capuano European Space Agency - European Space Operations Centre vcapuano@vmprofs.esoc.esa.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 01:01:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA15150 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 01:01:33 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA15143 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 01:01:27 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA20984; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:57:12 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507250757.AAA20984@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: harry@hgac.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, ache@astral.msk.su, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, pas@tonesoft.com In-Reply-To: <199507250558.PAA01884@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 25, 95 03:28:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1038 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Harry Goldschmitt stands accused of saying: > > I hate to butt in, most modern modems can be configured to a specific modem > > to modem connect speed (which we did), but I haven't seen one yet that can > > be configured for the modem to serial port speed! If you know of one, and > > can prove it works (not just theory), let me know. We tried three different > > modems, a 14.4 internal, a 28.8 internal and a 14.4 external, all from > > different companies. > > There are plenty that can be locked to a fixed DTE speed; I name most > Interlink modems, as well as many Dataplex models as just two examples. I'll add PPI to the list... infact any modem missing this features this late in the game is just not following the needs of it's customers. I suspect you are dealing with low cost modems for the PC that where really made to be originate modems more than anything. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 02:43:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA18529 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 02:43:41 -0700 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA18523 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 02:43:35 -0700 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.140) with smtp id ; Tue, 25 Jul 95 11:43 MEST Received: by sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA05708; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:42:59 +0200 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9507250942.AA05708@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: quotad To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:42:59 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1244 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk is anybody thinking a bout quotad for FreeBSD ? - here the OSF/1 man-page: rpc.rquotad(8) rpc.rquotad(8) NAME rpc.rquotad, rquotad - Remote quota server SYNOPSIS /usr/lib/nfs/rpc.rquotad DESCRIPTION The rquotad daemon is an RPC server that returns quotas for a user of a local file system which is mounted by a remote machine over the NFS. The results are used by the quota command to display user quotas for remote file systems. The rquotad daemon is normally invoked by the inetd daemon. FILES quotas The quota file at the file system root. RELATED INFORMATION Commands: quota(1), rpc(4), services(4) Daemons: inetd(8) thanks in advance - t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 04:05:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA21578 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:05:51 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA21548 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:05:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA27682 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:05:36 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507251105.RAA27682@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: DOOM for FreeBSD ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:05:36 +0600 (GMT+0600) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 322 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I got the QNX X Window CD-ROM for a while and found that there is the DOOM compiled for QNX! May be it's possible to ask ID Software about adding their DOOM to the 'commercial' section of FreeBSD ? Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 04:36:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA22509 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:36:40 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22503 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:36:38 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA02596; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:25:21 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507251155.VAA02596@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Ultrastor unhappiness/crashing To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:25:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507242351.JAA01116@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 25, 95 09:21:15 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2003 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith stands accused of saying: > Jul 25 00:03:59 borax /kernel: sd0(uha0:0:0): host adapter code inconsistency ... > This is the first time I've had this crash, although the inconsistency > messages have been piling up ever since 2.0.5 (one of the last ALPHAS) was > installed. Or perhaps more accurately since I've been tinkering with scsi(8). (I can't be sure of this, but I am reasonably; big fingers 8) So, a new variation on the question : what's wrong with this : scsi -f /dev/rsd0.ctl -c "0 0 0 0 0 0" It's a Test Unit Ready command; it neither sends nor returns data, so I'm not specifying any. Results vary depending on what I do before and after it. In what we can pretend is an 'idle' state, I get no output. If I run an Inquiry command (as per the scsi(8) manpage) after it : scsi -f /dev/rsd0.ctl -c "12 0 0 0 64 0" -i 64 "s8 z8 z16 z14" I get : SCIOCCOMMAND ioctl: Command accepted. return status 4 (Unknown return status)Command out (6 of 6): 12 00 00 00 64 00 Data in (0 of 64): No sense sent. SEAGATE ST11200N 9390000666316 and an inconsistency message from the kernel. I get the same result from the CDrom (Matsushita CR-503), but oddly _not_ from either the Micropolis 4110 or my TDC-3660. (Speaking of which, how do I take the SCSI-2 version of the '3600 off the rogue list?) I'm presuming 'difference of opinion' between the SCSI interface in the four devices, but obviously I'm doing something wrong myself. A study of scsi_base.c didn't reveal anything special about the way in which Test Unit Ready is handled, so I'm at a little of a loss at this point. Any suggestions? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 05:30:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA23450 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:30:15 -0700 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA23444 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:30:13 -0700 Received: from sbgrad9.csdept (sbgrad9.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.2.29]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA25489; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:27:04 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:27:04 -0400 From: Michael Vernick Message-Id: <199507251227.IAA25489@cs.sunysb.edu> Received: by sbgrad9.csdept (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07890; Tue, 25 Jul 95 08:26:34 EDT To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: "Christoph P. Kukulies"'s message of Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:44:16 +0200 <199507241844.UAA04407@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: I hosed my system with a -current kernel Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry that I'm not responding to your question, but did you get any answers? I've also seemed to have hosed my kernel and need a way to copy a kernel from floppy back to the hard disk so I can reboot. mv From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 05:46:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA23794 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:46:59 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA23787 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:46:55 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id OAA01012 ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:46:23 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id OAA08230 ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:46:22 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507251246.OAA08230@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: XFree86 and NumLock To: VCAPUANO@VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (Vincenzo Capuano) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:46:22 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199507250643.XAA12453@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Vincenzo Capuano" at Jul 25, 95 08:28:46 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 400 Sender: hackers-owner@FREEBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I see that to have menus working properly I have to turn off the Num > Lock key. But, I would like to keep it ON. Are there any work-arounds to > have num lock on and still can use the menus ? > Add ServerNumLock in the Keyboard section of your XF86config. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 05:48:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA23898 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:48:09 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA23892 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:48:07 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA12700; Tue, 25 Jul 95 06:48:06 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA01751; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 06:51:48 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 06:51:48 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9507251251.AA01751@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507251105.RAA27682@hq.icb.chel.su> (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Serge" == Serge A Babkin writes: Serge> I got the QNX X Window CD-ROM for a while and found that Serge> there is the DOOM compiled for QNX! May be it's possible to Serge> ask ID Software about adding their DOOM to the 'commercial' Serge> section of FreeBSD ? I believe the last time someone asked, the response from Id Software was ``NO, NEVER.'' In all-caps, even. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA The other day when I was walking through the woods, I saw a rabbit standing in front of a candle making shadows of people on a tree. -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 07:14:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA25548 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:14:06 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA25542 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:13:52 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA32521; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:06:04 +1000 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:06:04 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507251406.AAA32521@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >>Does EAGAIN allowed on open by POSIX? >> >> >No. "... opening a terminal device file with the O_NONBLOCK flag clear >> >shall cause the process to block until the terminal device is ready and >> >available. The CLOCAL flag can also affect open()." [Opening terminal >> >device files with O_NONBLOCK set is supposed to always work if the file >> >permissions allow it. We probably break this by returning EBUSY for >> >some exclusive access and bidirectional cases.] >A non-blocking open of the regular device when the calling unit >device is in use is to return EWOULDBLOCK. Not allowed by POSIX (apart from EWOULDBLOCK not existing in POSIX), but better than EBUSY. >A blocking open is to block until the calling unit is not busy Except blocking opens of the calling unit should block unit the non-calling unit is not busy. We currently return EBUSY. >It seems the interpretation of POSIX above is being used incorrectly. >The flag in question is on the tty struct, *not* on the open. The >O_NONBLOCK flag on the open is in a different section of the standard. No. No. Yesbut. :-) The flag is on the open and lives in the file struct, *not* in the tty struct. The 2 sections of the standard say much the same thing. The section on open() says that for cdevs that "support nonblocking opens": (1) O_NONBLOCK shall cause permissible opens to succeed immediately. (2) !O_NONBLOCK shall cause permissible opens to block. The section on opening "Terminal Devices Files" says (2). Apparently "Terminal Device Files" "support nonblocking opens" (although I don't know where if anywhere that is specified explicitly) so (1) should apply too. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 08:10:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA28484 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:10:50 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA28477 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:10:42 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA01601; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:00:02 +1000 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:00:02 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507251500.BAA01601@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: harry@hgac.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, pas@tonesoft.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I and a number of local ISPs run 14K dialins supporting both user logins >and SLIP without any such trouble. Are your /etc/ttys entries using >getty.std or getty.38400? Neither of these exists. There is nothing corresponding to getty.std unless you count the ancient auto-bauding entries. getty.38400 is spelled std.38400. The default (in /etc/ttys) is std.9600 for all lines. This should never be used for modern modems. It should be changed to avoid providing a bad example. Use std.115200 if possible, else std.57600 if possible, else std.38400... >> AT command for Hayes. There is nothing in the RS-232 lines that can cause >> the modem to do much until some data is transmitted - Tx. I agree that the >> settings should be taken from the sio driver first, especiallly the lock >> device. But someone, somewhere will want to reset the speed for a The lock device only contains flags. The default settings are strored in the INITIAL-STATE device. >> particuar getty. On close, the port settings should probably be set back >> to the initial driver settings. This is done when the port is opened. It doesn't matter what the settings are when the port isn't being used. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 08:11:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA28532 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:11:12 -0700 Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.191.196.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA28503 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:11:01 -0700 Received: by misery.sdf.com id <1083-2>; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:08:59 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:08:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Michael Vernick cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: I hosed my system with a -current kernel In-Reply-To: <199507251227.IAA25489@cs.sunysb.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Michael Vernick wrote: > Sorry that I'm not responding to your question, but did you get any > answers? I've also seemed to have hosed my kernel and need a way to > copy a kernel from floppy back to the hard disk so I can reboot. Is "kernel.GENERIC" hosed too? If not, just type its name at the boot prompt to boot it instead. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 08:30:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA29466 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:30:53 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA29460 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:30:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA01575 ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:19:54 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:24:17 PDT." <199507241724.KAA19272@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:19:53 +0100 Message-ID: <1573.806685593@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199507241724.KAA19272@gndrsh.aac.dev.com>, "Rodney W. Grimes" write s: >I thought someone restored all the mail from a mirror site??? Also we >are winging along without backups now for almost 60 days... this is >not good :-(. In what way? We still run backups to thud every night. Also, not everything was backuped to ref, especially to the list archives as they are so big... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 08:37:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA29683 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:37:02 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA29674 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:36:40 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HTAN2XMMB4004V3S@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:27:31 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id RAA06643; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:39:39 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:39:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: Christoph Kukulies Subject: Re: I hosed my system with a -current kernel In-reply-to: from "Tom Samplonius" at Jul 25, 95 08:08:39 am To: tom@misery.sdf.com (Tom Samplonius) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199507251539.RAA06643@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-type: text Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-length: 1323 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Michael Vernick wrote: > > > Sorry that I'm not responding to your question, but did you get any > > answers? I've also seemed to have hosed my kernel and need a way to > > copy a kernel from floppy back to the hard disk so I can reboot. > > Is "kernel.GENERIC" hosed too? If not, just type its name at the boot > prompt to boot it instead. I have a bunch of kernels in /. None of them works. It's a file system problem. I'm getting: WARNING: / was not properly dismounted panic: ffs_write() (some such) The panic happens with whatever kernel I choose. I'm trying to build a fixit.flp on another machine now for some hours to no avail. I copied the 2.0.5-RELEASE-CD src tree (from the live fs CD) to the disk and try to make RELEASEDIR=/usr/tmp CHROOTDIR=/home BUILDNAME=FIXIT fixit.flp (and some other targets which broke here and there). And it wiped out my /home dir :-( (grrrr) Now I'm trying to build world first and then make relase. Making release only resulted in crt0.o not being found at some early stage. > > Tom > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 09:14:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA01136 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:14:19 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01129 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:14:15 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA09812; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:03:02 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:03:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: I hosed my system with a -current kernel To: Christoph Kukulies cc: Tom Samplonius , user alias In-Reply-To: <199507251539.RAA06643@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > make RELEASEDIR=/usr/tmp CHROOTDIR=/home BUILDNAME=FIXIT fixit.flp > (and some other targets which broke here and there). > And it wiped out my /home dir :-( (grrrr) > > Now I'm trying to build world first and then make relase. > Making release only resulted in crt0.o not being found at some > early stage. make release will try to do a cvs co. without the cvs tree, this will fail. see /usr/src/release/Makefile:86,88 when i tried this jordan suggested replacing the cvs co with a cp for the needed parts of the source tree. then a new brush fire broke out and i went running. ;(( Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 10:10:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA02986 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:10:03 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA02980 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:10:01 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA03255; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:56:38 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507251726.CAA03255@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:56:38 +0930 (CST) Cc: harry@hgac.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, pas@tonesoft.com, terry@cs.weber.edu In-Reply-To: <199507251500.BAA01601@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 26, 95 01:00:02 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1264 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > > >I and a number of local ISPs run 14K dialins supporting both user logins > >and SLIP without any such trouble. Are your /etc/ttys entries using > >getty.std or getty.38400? > > Neither of these exists. There is nothing corresponding to getty.std > unless you count the ancient auto-bauding entries. getty.38400 is > spelled std.38400. The default (in /etc/ttys) is std.9600 for all MHA 8( I wasn't in a position to check, so I should have Kept My Big Mouth Shut 8) > lines. This should never be used for modern modems. It should be > changed to avoid providing a bad example. Use std.115200 if possible, > else std.57600 if possible, else std.38400... Hmm; with reference to Rod's comments on 'cheap dialout modems'; lots of low-end 14k units won't go above 38k4 DTE, so I'd suggest that that would be a safe default. > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 10:22:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA03645 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:22:35 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03639 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:22:33 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA03302 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:11:20 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507251741.DAA03302@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Plan9 - a salutory tale To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:11:19 +0930 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1191 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Given that participants (and lurkers) here are wont to tinker, this may save someone some grief... I thought I'd fiddle with Plan9 last night; the docco looked interesting, the 4-disk evaluation kit was easily had, and all in all it sounded like fun. (and aside from this, it was...) Woe betide me for not more closely interpreting the description of what it puts where on your disk 8) I thought I'd stick it into a spare partition slot made by throwing out a scratch partition. Nope. Plan9 uses its own partition table, and it starts from the end of the disk and works backwards. Effective, but brutal 8( Needless to say, fsck and the 2.0.5 CD came to the rescue, and amazingly my home directories (the last thing on the disk) survived apparently intact, but it's not a trick I'll be trying again... -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 11:03:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA04700 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:03:31 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04692 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:03:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA09402; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:01:31 -0700 To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:05:36 +0600." <199507251105.RAA27682@hq.icb.chel.su> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:01:30 -0700 Message-ID: <9397.806695290@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I got the QNX X Window CD-ROM for a while and found that there is > the DOOM compiled for QNX! May be it's possible to ask ID Software > about adding their DOOM to the 'commercial' section of FreeBSD ? No, they're no longer doing ports. It was a one-off thing. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 11:08:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA04903 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:08:31 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04897 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:08:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13183; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:06:43 -0700 To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jul 1995 06:51:48 MDT." <9507251251.AA01751@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:06:42 -0700 Message-ID: <13181.806695602@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I believe the last time someone asked, the response from Id Software > was ``NO, NEVER.'' In all-caps, even. I think they're rather sick of being asked.. :-) My own conversations with them have been rather more polite, but I do understand that the circumstances that led to other ports being done _at all_ were very unique ones and that they have no interest in doing any additional "non strategic" ports. Compared to their DOS/Jaguar/3DO base, FreeBSD and Linux put together don't even register as a blip. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 11:30:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA05730 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:30:56 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA05723 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:30:54 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA21406; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:28:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199507251828.LAA21406@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly), babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:06:42 PDT." <13181.806695602@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:28:26 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > I believe the last time someone asked, the response from Id Software > > was ``NO, NEVER.'' In all-caps, even. > > I think they're rather sick of being asked.. :-) > > My own conversations with them have been rather more polite, but I do > understand that the circumstances that led to other ports being done > _at all_ were very unique ones and that they have no interest in doing > any additional "non strategic" ports. Compared to their DOS/Jaguar/3DO > base, FreeBSD and Linux put together don't even register as a blip. > Also one of the ID developers tragically and I am most sorry to say this for he probably does not know any better fell into the trap of running linux. If I am not mistaken ID's ftp site is also running linux. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 11:46:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA06682 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:46:48 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06670 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:46:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA15217; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:48:31 -0400 From: jfieber@grendel.csc.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199507251848.OAA15217@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Re: addition to ftp site To: gurney_j@efn.org (John-Mark Gurney) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Jul 24, 95 01:31:21 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 648 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk John-Mark Gurney writes: > I was wondering if there is a index.html page in the works for > /pub/FreeBSD? I am wondering because I was browsing a Babylon-5 archive It certainly has been thought of. The other consideration is that most people who could make use of an html index (as opposed to plain text) are WWW enabled and they may as well be directed at http://www.freebsd.org/ (and the "Where" page in particular) where they can follow links to various point on the FTP server. That said, I do think an index.html page on the ftp site itself is worthwhile. -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ========== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 13:00:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA09722 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:00:03 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA09709 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:00:01 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA22273; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:59:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199507251959.MAA22273@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:02:47 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:59:49 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Feel free to try "bat" if you have a GUS, GUSMAX, or a PAS16. There is a README file included in the tar file so just look at it for info on how to run bat. Last but not least this an alpha release. rah.star-gate.com:/pub/bat.tar.gz Have fun, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 13:17:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA10543 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:17:39 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA10537 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:17:31 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA16947; Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:08:01 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507252008.AA16947@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: harry@hgac.com (Harry Goldschmitt) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:08:01 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, ache@astral.msk.su, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, pas@tonesoft.com In-Reply-To: from "Harry Goldschmitt" at Jul 24, 95 10:06:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I hate to butt in, most modern modems can be configured to a specific modem > to modem connect speed (which we did), but I haven't seen one yet that can > be configured for the modem to serial port speed! If you know of one, and > can prove it works (not just theory), let me know. We tried three different > modems, a 14.4 internal, a 28.8 internal and a 14.4 external, all from > different companies. Telebit Trailblazer Telebit NetBlazer Multitech Multimodem Microcomm US Robotics Sportster FaxModem (beware when talking to Rockwell chipsets!) > >If the modem can't be correctly configgured, I *STRONGLY* urge > >replacing the modem. A Tandy DT1200 modem won't pass ^N characters, > >and I would hardly suggest hacking all comm software to avoid ^N > >to make the bogus modem happy. > > See above, and try it! This was just a list of alternatives for port locking. Actually, port locking is a bogus thing to do. You get "peristalsis" from varying pool retention requirements. The cannonically correct thing to do would be to use a modem that set it's baud rate based on the RS232C external clock. Other than AT&T DataSets (modems which are generally low baud rate) and Racal-Vadic (which compromise between US and European carrier frequencies, resulting in mostly poor connections except with other Raval-Vadic modems), I really don't know of a modem which implements this according to the standard (well, I know one, but it's internal and it floats its DCD incorrectly instead of using a 150 Ohm pulldown). > >> Solution for it already exists: > >> 1) Configure modem to gettytab speed and issue AT&W. > >> 2) Configure modem to do ATZ on DTR drop. > > > >Yes yes yes. > > No no no. That's not what's happening in our case. We boot up, use slattach > at a speed of 38400, or whatever. It works at 38400. We kill slattach, Which causes DTR drop which a correctly configured modem will consider as a command to reset as if powered off then on. > configure etc/ttys so that the port is on, and do a kill -HUP 1. Which causes getty to attempt an open, wherein DTR is raised and the open blocks pending DCD going high (and the port sends *nothing* to the modem). > Guess what, dials to the port connect at 9600. Because either the default modem settings are wrong, the training order doesn't go the same direction on both modems, or the lin quality on the incoming connection is of lower quality, and that the highest rate that can be supported. Is this a long distance call? If it is, I recommned only AT&T or Telamerica, since the voice band compression and time division multiplexing that Sprint and MCI use are bad for digital bandwidth (they are using ATM backbones which implement "leaky bucket", so you can not get what you need -- a comitted rate. The only way to get a comitted rate is to go digital only. Even then, Sprint routes most if its traffic through the DC hub which has been flakey for two years now. > Somewhere in the driver, characters like AT are being sent at 9600, > which happens to be the ttydefaults.h setting. Wrong. Dead wrong. I have attached a serial line analyzer, and no such output is taking place from the getty or the standard serial driver. You are either running a non-standard serial driver, a non-standard getty, or both. Or the problem is not what you believe the problem to be (I think this last one is the correct one). > Not believing our eyes, we tried three different brands of modems, > two internal and one external. Same symptoms. We then modified > /etc/ttys back to turn the port off and kill init, yet again. We > then restart slattach at 38400, everything is fine. We also tried the > experiment with cu and tip. Every thing works but getty. Sounds to me like > the getty-killer is getty! No. In one case you are running an *outgoing* call, using your RBOC, LATA, whatever inter-LATA lines, and your LD carrier (if applicable). In the other case you are running a getty which implies an incoming connection. Using whatever alternate virtual circuit route is being taken by the caller. In one case, your modem is the passive party in the speed training; this is the case that works. In the other, your modem is the active party ; this is the case that fails, and probably has to do with train order on the callers modem -- the callers modem settings are the issue in this case. > Does anyone have a 14.4 or 28.8 modem? Can you beg, borrow or steal one. > If you don't think I'm telling the truth, try the above experiments! Two people in our office run 14.4 connections on a daily basis to get Internet connectivity -- without problems. > >> If we allow modem to not do ATZ on DTR drop, more complex > >> things will be involved in driver and getty, namely: > >> 1) Driver must issue "AT" command at first open > >> to give modem chance to sense speed. > > > >No no no. The Modem is idiotically "sensing" the speed. This is > >the problem in the first place. The driver should not "set" the > >modem, especially when these commands aren't going to work on > >non-AT command set modems that are otherwise non-bogus. > > > How about a Hayes compatible driver to set the modem. The modem can't > possibly know the modem to serial port speed until it can autobaud via an > AT command for Hayes. It is not *supposed* to "know the modem to serial port speed". It is supposed to be at a locked baud rate or it is supposed to *dictate* the speed by sending a connect message, either at a known or locked speed (subsequently resetting the port speed on the modem in the second case) OR it is supposed to send it at the speed it wants. Because the DCD isn't present, the port will ignore all input. The connect message is *suppoed* to be sent prior to the modem raising DCD. The *correct* "UNIX" way of baud rate training the port is to have a rotor list in the gettytab, and the caller is to send breaks (done in the "chat" script so the user doesn't have to deal with it) until they can recognize a "login:" prompt. The lazy way around having a "chat" script front end for you is to lock the modem-to-port baud rate (register S53 in Telebit modems, available in the command set otherwise on most other modern modems) and put one baud rate (the locked one) in the gettytab rotor list. > There is nothing in the RS-232 lines that can cause > the modem to do much until some data is transmitted - Tx. I agree that the > settings should be taken from the sio driver first, especiallly the lock > device. But someone, somewhere will want to reset the speed for a > particuar getty. On close, the port settings should probably be set back > to the initial driver settings. They are. This is called templating. This is the default rates Bruce has been on about (in /etc/rc.serial). > Like I said, every application we tried worked properly, except getty. And > it reset the port to ttydefaults. Yes it did. But there is no way in hell your modem could have possibly known about this unless it opened a race condition window by being incorrectly configured to ignore DTR, not have DCD follow remote carrier, the cable was wired to disable the correct operation of these signals, it's using the RS232C external clock signal, or you personally modified getty. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 13:41:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA11479 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:41:26 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA11471 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:41:21 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA16998; Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:33:07 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507252033.AA16998@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:33:06 MDT Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199507251406.AAA32521@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 26, 95 00:06:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> >No. "... opening a terminal device file with the O_NONBLOCK flag clear > >> >shall cause the process to block until the terminal device is ready and > >> >available. The CLOCAL flag can also affect open()." [Opening terminal > >> >device files with O_NONBLOCK set is supposed to always work if the file > >> >permissions allow it. We probably break this by returning EBUSY for > >> >some exclusive access and bidirectional cases.] > > >A non-blocking open of the regular device when the calling unit > >device is in use is to return EWOULDBLOCK. > > Not allowed by POSIX (apart from EWOULDBLOCK not existing in POSIX), but > better than EBUSY. Well, techincally, calling units are not allowed by POSIX. They want you to use the partial open hack. 8-). > >A blocking open is to block until the calling unit is not busy > > Except blocking opens of the calling unit should block unit the non-calling > unit is not busy. Yes, of course. Sorry, that was supposed to be implied in "interlock". It's an issue of how device multiplexing into a tty and a calling unit occur. But you knew that already. 8-). > We currently return EBUSY. Yah. This is broken. The correct mechanism is to alarm out of the open in the comms software if the outgoing call is supposed to be partially or fully interactive. This is actually a requirement for a source change to the comms software -- not something that should be entered into lightly. Or, better, to handle the EWOULDBLOCK after attempting a blocking open. This used to be necessary because the open used to be with O_NDELAY which caused the same effect as a vmin of 0 and a vtime of 0 on pre TERMIOS tty devices. Now that we have fcntl() to unset the "no delay" for reads, we're fine. The vmin/vtime method is the correct way to handle block protocols anyway. The one remaining issue is that the partial open unsetting of NDELAY needs to still work for device binary compatability for things like IBCS2. > >It seems the interpretation of POSIX above is being used incorrectly. > >The flag in question is on the tty struct, *not* on the open. The > >O_NONBLOCK flag on the open is in a different section of the standard. > > No. No. Yesbut. :-) The flag is on the open and lives in the file > struct, *not* in the tty struct. The 2 sections of the standard say > much the same thing. The section on open() says that for cdevs that > "support nonblocking opens": (1) O_NONBLOCK shall cause permissible > opens to succeed immediately. (2) !O_NONBLOCK shall cause permissible > opens to block. The section on opening "Terminal Devices Files" says > (2). Apparently "Terminal Device Files" "support nonblocking opens" > (although I don't know where if anywhere that is specified explicitly) > so (1) should apply too. Yeah, they didn't want to standardize anyone out of existing practice, especially the SVR4 geeks, so the made it rather ambiguous. It's possbile to be less ambiguous, but only by dictating implementation (something else they wanted to avoid). The "right thing" is to "make it work" and "don't break existing software as much as possible". Oh, and keep your head down, or you'll catch shrapnel. Maybe what we need to do is document existing practice and then document a specific implementation model. And then make anyone else who writes serial drivers stick to it. Lotta work, that. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 14:07:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAB12366 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:07:38 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA12353 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:07:33 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA09790; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:01:42 +1000 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:01:42 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507252101.HAA09790@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >The one remaining issue is that the partial open unsetting of NDELAY >needs to still work for device binary compatability for things like IBCS2. This should be handled in the ibcs2 emulator :-). I don't think the version that you want is implemented. If O_NONBLOCK is turned off, then I/O blocks if there is no carrier and no CLOCAL. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 14:28:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA13347 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:28:25 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA13341 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:28:22 -0700 Received: from nike.nike.efn.org (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA06700; Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:28:02 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:35:49 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@nike.nike.efn.org To: John Fieber Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: addition to ftp site In-Reply-To: <199507251848.OAA15217@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, John Fieber wrote: > John-Mark Gurney writes: > > I was wondering if there is a index.html page in the works for > > /pub/FreeBSD? I am wondering because I was browsing a Babylon-5 archive > > It certainly has been thought of. The other consideration is > that most people who could make use of an html index (as opposed > to plain text) are WWW enabled and they may as well be directed > at http://www.freebsd.org/ (and the "Where" page in particular) > where they can follow links to various point on the FTP server. > That said, I do think an index.html page on the ftp site itself > is worthwhile. ok... I guess if nobody objects, even though I am not very qualified I will start a basic index.html... also... I noticed that the CD doesn't have one either... I guess that will be included as I would make multiple index.html for the directories... also... one advantage to having a index.html in the FreeBSD directory would be to help reduce the strain on overseas links... though it may be a small one some people reading from mirrors might like the extra speed... TTYL... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 14:31:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA13582 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:31:18 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA13575 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:31:15 -0700 Received: from nike.nike.efn.org (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA06375; Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:23:08 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:30:55 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@nike.nike.efn.org To: Tom Samplonius Cc: Michael Vernick , kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: I hosed my system with a -current kernel In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Tom Samplonius wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Michael Vernick wrote: > > > Sorry that I'm not responding to your question, but did you get any > > answers? I've also seemed to have hosed my kernel and need a way to > > copy a kernel from floppy back to the hard disk so I can reboot. > > Is "kernel.GENERIC" hosed too? If not, just type its name at the boot > prompt to boot it instead. I had a problem with hosing my kernel.GENERIC because after the install of 2.0.5-R kernel and kernel.GENERIC were hard linked together... not relizing this... I had recompiled my kernel and did a cp kernel /kernel... and as you can imagine I lost kernel.GENERIC... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 14:36:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA13782 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:36:32 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA13776 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:36:29 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA17023; Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:36:07 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507252036.AA17023@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: XFree86 and NumLock To: VCAPUANO@VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (Vincenzo Capuano) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:36:06 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507250643.XAA12453@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Vincenzo Capuano" at Jul 25, 95 08:28:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I see that to have menus working properly I have to turn off the Num > Lock key. But, I would like to keep it ON. Are there any work-arounds to > have num lock on and still can use the menus ? Read the configuration file manual page. What you want to use is "ServerNumLock" in XF86Config (where it goes is left as an exercise for the reader). This should be the *default* setting. It should the the *default* setting. Someone add this to the *default* XF86Config, PLEASE! This question is getting *old*! A documentation fix is insufficient! Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 14:38:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA13860 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:38:20 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA13854 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:38:16 -0700 Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA02239; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:31:17 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199507252131.RAA02239@hda.com> Subject: Re: Ultrastor unhappiness/crashing To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507251155.VAA02596@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 25, 95 09:25:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2022 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > > Michael Smith stands accused of saying: > > Jul 25 00:03:59 borax /kernel: sd0(uha0:0:0): host adapter code inconsistency > ... > > This is the first time I've had this crash, although the inconsistency > > messages have been piling up ever since 2.0.5 (one of the last ALPHAS) was > > installed. > > Or perhaps more accurately since I've been tinkering with scsi(8). > (I can't be sure of this, but I am reasonably; big fingers 8) > > So, a new variation on the question : what's wrong with this : > > scsi -f /dev/rsd0.ctl -c "0 0 0 0 0 0" > > It's a Test Unit Ready command; it neither sends nor returns data, so > I'm not specifying any. Results vary depending on what I do before and > after it. > It works fine here on the Adaptec 1542. My guess is a UltraStor bug. Try compiling with the SCSI_DEBUG option and turning debugging on the driver. % beggar.hda.com# scsi -f /dev/rsd0.ctl -c "0 0 0 0 0 0" % beggar.hda.com# > In what we can pretend is an 'idle' state, I get no output. > If I run an Inquiry command (as per the scsi(8) manpage) after it : > scsi -f /dev/rsd0.ctl -c "12 0 0 0 64 0" -i 64 "s8 z8 z16 z14" > I get : > > SCIOCCOMMAND ioctl: Command accepted. > return status 4 (Unknown return status)Command out (6 of 6): > 12 00 00 00 64 00 > > Data in (0 of 64): > > No sense sent. > SEAGATE ST11200N 9390000666316 > > and an inconsistency message from the kernel. I get the same result > from the CDrom (Matsushita CR-503), but oddly _not_ from either the > Micropolis 4110 or my TDC-3660. For the Adaptec: % % beggar.hda.com# scsi -f /dev/rsd0.ctl -c "12 0 0 0 64 0" -i 64 "s8 z8 z16 z14" % CDC 94171-9 595000150550 I think the "code inconsistency" error is the XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP error; take a look at that. -- *** Net and mailer reconfig is going on @hda.com. Problems to hdslip@iii.net Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 15:02:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA14732 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:02:32 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA14726 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:02:29 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA11447 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:02:18 +0300 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id BAA09342; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:02:23 +0300 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:02:23 +0300 Message-Id: <199507252202.BAA09342@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Michael Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: Michael Smith's message of 25 Jul 1995 20:13:39 +0300 Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmm; with reference to Rod's comments on 'cheap dialout modems'; lots of low-end 14k units won't go above 38k4 DTE, so I'd suggest that that would be a safe default. Uh, I haven't seen a 38.4k limitation since V32 ages, and that is long since gone? All V32bis modems I have seen here have either 57.6k or 115.2k DTE speed. All V34 modems have 115.2k, and probably V34 is already more than half of the sales? -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 15:15:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA15180 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:15:36 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA15156 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:15:14 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55305>; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:14:12 +0200 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA16044 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:52:51 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:52:51 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199507252152.XAA16044@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: mailmerge functionality - suggestions welcome Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Hackers, Before I reinvent the wheel, I'd welcome suggestions ... What would be our best tools to achieve the following I want to send out a load of letters & faxes, & need a `mailmerge' type of functionality. What I have is something like this: }{ Acme Inc Mr Fred Customer Some street some place Tel 1234 Fax 5678 My supplier number 1234abcd \" Last contacted them 7/95, they only buy cheap, }{ Foo Bar & Associates Mrs Jane Dough Some Avenue Metropolis Tel 87643 Fax They have one but I dont know the number Email: broken@unknown.host.com 10 Long line of .......... chatty extra text/notes }{ I need tools to iterate through a (tidied up) version (& maybe even sort it), splitting each line in a set of transient seperate mini files: adr1 adr2 adr3 adr4 company fax name1 name2 reference and calling a ./doit shell, that will invoke my existing BSD makefiles, that in turn invokes nroff &/or make + sendfax, with stuff like .so var/name1 and FAX_TO_NAME ="`cat var/name1`" I could use an /etc/passwd `:' delimited type format, & parse it with awk, but that's too unwieldy to maintain with vi, as each of the blocks above would compact to a single long (too long) line. I'm quite happy to edit the input format, & write some C, but before I go reinventing the wheel .... Any suggestions of tools ? Thanks Julian S. jhs@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 15:16:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA15305 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:16:45 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA15295 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:16:37 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55317>; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:15:26 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA21220 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:51:04 +0200 Message-Id: <199507232251.AAA21220@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jul 1995 18:46:56 +0200." Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:51:02 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: Kim Culhan > Since I've been 'off the list' for a couple of weeks now, what is the current > state of things wrt ports of duplex voice comms for GUS hardware? Do many other readers of hackers apart from me also not have a sound card ? I get too much mail, & having an audio@freebsd.org list, would remove some traffic from hackers, & would save me mail load :-). Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 15:42:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA16061 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:42:59 -0700 Received: from tcsi.tcs.com (tcsi.tcs.com [137.134.41.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA16055 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:42:58 -0700 Received: from laguna.tcs.com (laguna-le0.tcs.com [137.134.101.17]) by tcsi.tcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA11143 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:42:27 -0700 Received: from cozumel.tcs.com (cozumel.tcs.com [137.134.104.12]) by laguna.tcs.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA02955 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:42:24 -0700 Received: by cozumel.tcs.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02416; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:41:22 -0700 From: ambrisko@tcs.com (Douglas Ambrisko) Message-Id: <9507252241.AA02416@cozumel.tcs.com> Subject: Shell commands for iij config scripts To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:41:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199507251230.FAA23459@freefall.cdrom.com> from "owner-hackers-digest@freefall.cdrom.com" at Jul 25, 95 05:30:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here is a couple of hacks I made to iij-ppp, I'd like these capabilities added. to main.c so that is would start ppp negotiation in auto mode. This is so it will work with slirp, it also still works with my straight ppp provider that isn't in my local call whereas my slirp connection is! *** main.c.orig Tue Jul 25 15:00:09 1995 --- main.c Tue Jul 25 15:00:44 1995 *************** *** 378,384 **** CcpInit(); LcpUp(); ! if (mode & (MODE_DIRECT|MODE_DEDICATED)) LcpOpen(OPEN_ACTIVE); else LcpOpen(VarOpenMode); --- 378,384 ---- CcpInit(); LcpUp(); ! if (mode & (MODE_DIRECT|MODE_DEDICATED|MODE_AUTO)) LcpOpen(OPEN_ACTIVE); else LcpOpen(VarOpenMode); to command.c so I can run a script from the config file when the link comes up (like dequeue any mail waiting on my system or at my providers site for me and update my named config file since slirp's DNS server keeps changing depending on the machine I get connected to) *** command.c.orig Tue Jul 25 14:55:00 1995 --- command.c Tue Jul 25 14:57:27 1995 *************** *** 168,173 **** --- 168,175 ---- "Save settings", StrNull}, { "set", "setup", SetCommand, LOCAL_AUTH, "Set parameters", "var value"}, + { "shell", NULL, ShellCommand, LOCAL_AUTH, + "Set parameters", "var value"}, { "show", NULL, ShowCommand, LOCAL_AUTH, "Show status and statictics", "var"}, { "term", NULL, TerminalCommand,LOCAL_AUTH, *************** *** 785,790 **** --- 787,812 ---- return(val); } + static int + ShellCommand(list, argc, argv) + struct cmdtab *list; + int argc; + char **argv; + { + int val = 1; + int count = 0; + char command[8192] /* this is bad */; + + if (argc > 0){ + for(command[0]=0;count''.\n"); + return(val); + } static int AddCommand(list, argc, argv) The reason why I did this, is that my phone bill was to expensive, my ppp connection was not in my local calling area and I had a shell account that was. So I run two iij-ppp auto sessions, a generic one that uses my shell account with slirp for general net surfing and the ppp-account to dequeue smtp mail waiting for my machine. Now I just have a ping in my crontab and that automatically dequeues my mail waiting for me once a day and my phone bill is a lot lower. Doug A. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 16:16:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA17579 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:16:55 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA17573 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:16:51 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA03815; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:05:47 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507252335.JAA03815@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:05:46 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507252202.BAA09342@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jul 26, 95 01:02:23 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1399 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu stands accused of saying: > > Hmm; with reference to Rod's comments on 'cheap dialout modems'; lots of > low-end 14k units won't go above 38k4 DTE, so I'd suggest that that would > be a safe default. > > Uh, I haven't seen a 38.4k limitation since V32 ages, and that is long > since gone? All V32bis modems I have seen here have either 57.6k or 115.2k > DTE speed. All V34 modems have 115.2k, and probably V34 is already more > than half of the sales? Australia; land of the Taiwanese castoff 8) (Although at least two of the modems I'm thinking of are local products). I wouldn't say that v34 would account for anything like 50% of the sales here; there's been very aggressive marketing of low-end modems into the SOHO (*puke*) market. Whilst I agree that faster is better, I think a default solution that's likely to work in the vast majority of cases is probably the 'safe' thing to do. (Not that it's up to me to decide 8) > Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 16:49:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA18518 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:49:50 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA18512 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:49:48 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA24073; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:49:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199507252349.QAA24073@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Julian Stacey " cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:51:02 +0200." <199507232251.AAA21220@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:49:31 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Julian Stacey " said: > > > From: Kim Culhan > > Since I've been 'off the list' for a couple of weeks now, what is the curr ent > > state of things wrt ports of duplex voice comms for GUS hardware? > > Do many other readers of hackers apart from me also not have a sound card ? I bet that you are a vi user :) > I get too much mail, & having an audio@freebsd.org list, would remove > some traffic from hackers, & would save me mail load :-). First off the multimedia related questions is not a big deal since not too many individuals post questions related to the multimedia stuff. My multimedia mailing list was setup specifically to handle this problem of posting to hackers and to focus the multimedia efforts. to subscribe to the multimedia mailing list: mail majordomo@rah.star-gate.com subscribe multimedia The multimedia mailing list is handle by majordomo .... Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 19:16:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA25536 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:16:05 -0700 Received: from physics.su.oz.au (physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA25503 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:15:46 -0700 Received: by physics.su.oz.au id AA20807 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:54:59 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199507260154.AA20807@physics.su.oz.au> Subject: Re: XFree86 and NumLock To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:54:57 +1000 (EST) Cc: VCAPUANO@VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9507252036.AA17023@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 25, 95 02:36:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 892 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I see that to have menus working properly I have to turn off the Num >> Lock key. But, I would like to keep it ON. Are there any work-arounds to >> have num lock on and still can use the menus ? > >Read the configuration file manual page. > >What you want to use is "ServerNumLock" in XF86Config (where it goes >is left as an exercise for the reader). > >This should be the *default* setting. > >It should the the *default* setting. > >Someone add this to the *default* XF86Config, PLEASE! Making it the default setting only masks the real problem. The real fix is in the clients/libs. For now though, if you want clients that don't ignore the NumLock modifier state to work while you have NumLock on, it is the only solution. At least in XFree86 3.1.2, the default NumLock state will be set to off when the Xserver starts so that not so many people will be caught out by this. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 19:16:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA25569 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:16:22 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA25563 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:16:21 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20607; Tue, 25 Jul 95 20:08:32 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507260208.AA20607@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 20:08:31 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199507252101.HAA09790@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 26, 95 07:01:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >The one remaining issue is that the partial open unsetting of NDELAY > >needs to still work for device binary compatability for things like IBCS2. > > This should be handled in the ibcs2 emulator :-). I don't think the > version that you want is implemented. If O_NONBLOCK is turned off, then > I/O blocks if there is no carrier and no CLOCAL. Devices are event sources and sinks. You have to generate the necessary events to support the BSD behaviour and the emulated behaviour. There are some things you just can't do otherwise. The event handling code that causes the device to behave as if it were coded one way or another, that's what goes into the emulation code. For instance, going back to open completing on RI instead of DCD: all it is is an event handler substitution. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 19:23:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA26282 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:23:12 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA26266 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:23:02 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA23257; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:20:38 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507260220.TAA23257@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1573.806685593@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Jul 25, 95 04:19:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 782 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <199507241724.KAA19272@gndrsh.aac.dev.com>, "Rodney W. Grimes" write > s: > >I thought someone restored all the mail from a mirror site??? Also we > >are winging along without backups now for almost 60 days... this is > >not good :-(. > > In what way? We still run backups to thud every night. Also, not > everything was backuped to ref, especially to the list archives as > they are so big... It's all become academic at this point, in one of my recent converstaions with Justin, freefall is now in the amanda backup sequence, and all disks are getting dumped every night. End of problems and worries :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 20:17:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA01044 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:30 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01037 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:28 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA04172; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:51:32 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507260321.MAA04172@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:51:31 +0930 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507251828.LAA21406@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jul 25, 95 11:28:26 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 807 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > Also one of the ID developers tragically and I am most sorry to say this > for he probably does not know any better fell into the trap of running > linux. If I am not mistaken ID's ftp site is also running linux. I think the quote was "coz Linux gives me a woody". Personally, I prefer Descent. If motion sickness is your thing, you might as well do it properly 8) > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 20:54:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA02158 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:54:26 -0700 Received: from gdwest.gd.com (gdwest.gd.com [134.120.3.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA02152 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:54:24 -0700 Received: by gdwest.gd.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11554; Tue, 25 Jul 95 20:55:29 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 20:55:29 PDT From: eyfarris@gdwest.gd.com (Eblan Y Farris) Message-Id: <9507260355.AA11554@gdwest.gd.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Plan9 - a salutory tale Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Mike Tell us more about Plan9. I have the same disks you have, but have not installed yet! Does it come with an Xwindow environment and WebBrowser, either it does or the CD version does? Tell us your thoughts - anything to learn from it? Eb-ANC From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 21:11:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA02494 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:11:11 -0700 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA02488 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:11:09 -0700 Received: from ast.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyzzs29532; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:09:44 -0400 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA27922 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:10:28 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Tue, 25 Jul 95 23:09 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0saxKg-0004vsC; Tue, 25 Jul 95 22:40 CDT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 22:40 CDT To: terry@cs.weber.edu, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, ache@astral.msk.su From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Tue Jul 25 1995, 22:40:30 CDT Subject: Re: Tandy DC-1200 modem (also DC-2212s) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [1]If the modem can't be correctly configgured, I *STRONGLY* urge [1]replacing the modem. A Tandy DT1200 modem won't pass ^N characters, [1]and I would hardly suggest hacking all comm software to avoid ^N [1]to make the bogus modem happy. I concur. The Radio Shack DC-1200 (1200 baud) also uses three CONTROL-Ds in a row to disconnect, with no time limit on spacing. I used to disconnect myself all the time when paging down in vi. As far as I know, CTRL-N wasn't an issue, but the modem is so ancient, and its handling of DTR and other signals is "non-traditional". There is nothing equivalent to AT&D2 or &D3 to reset things after a call. The 16/6000 XENIX had a special kernel dialer to handle this modem. The DC-1200 also has nothing equivalent to Hayes AT commands. That modem was actually made by another company and Radio Shack just sold them. You had to send them back with $300 to the original manufacturer to get them repaired. Throw all DC-1200 and DC-2212 modems away. They don't work with anything, not even with DOS applications. I left a DC-1200 in my Radio Shack office (on purpose) when our department moved since we didn't want it anymore. Tandy sold it as excess material at its outlet store. The modem went through an unknown number of hands over four years and eventually made it to the Dallas monthly Sidewalk sale, where a local UNIX admin saw my name on the back of the modem and bought it for $1 and gave it to me at the monthly area USENET admin lunch. Like a bad nickel, it came back. The next time I got rid of it, I removed my name first. Frank Durda IV |"Remember the Tandy 16/6000? or uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Fastest Route)| BugChk SckMud: Shut her down ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem | Scotty, she's sucking mud again!" ...decvax!fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem | Indicates a stack imbalance in the Z80 I/O drivers. Really! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 25 23:36:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA07749 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:36:32 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA07737 ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:36:27 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507260636.XAA07737@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd To: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Stacey) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507232251.AAA21220@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Stacey" at Jul 24, 95 00:51:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 741 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > From: Kim Culhan > > Since I've been 'off the list' for a couple of weeks now, what is the current > > state of things wrt ports of duplex voice comms for GUS hardware? > > Do many other readers of hackers apart from me also not have a sound card ? > > I get too much mail, & having an audio@freebsd.org list, would remove > some traffic from hackers, & would save me mail load :-). I guess "multimedia@freebsd.org" would be better, and YES PLEASE ! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 00:08:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA08868 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:08:01 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA08862 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:07:57 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HTBJWYDF6O004ROS@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:07:59 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id JAA01029 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:22:26 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:22:26 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: src tree of 2.0.5 CD broken? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Message-id: <199507260722.JAA01029@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I copied the whole src tree from the second 2.0.5 CD (live FS) to /usr/src yesterday evening and started make world. This morning I come into office and see that it failed during linking of /sbin/dump static. :-( main.o: Undefined symbol `_bread' referenced from text segment main.o: Undefined symbol `_mapfiles' referenced from text segment main.o: Undefined symbol `_mapdirs' referenced from text segment and so on.. I also copied (from the CD) /usr/lib/*.a to /usr/lib and tried again to no avail. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 00:42:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA09787 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:42:47 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA09770 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:41:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA06514; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:39:17 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507260739.NAA06514@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:39:17 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <13181.806695602@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 25, 95 11:06:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 909 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I believe the last time someone asked, the response from Id Software > > was ``NO, NEVER.'' In all-caps, even. > > I think they're rather sick of being asked.. :-) > > My own conversations with them have been rather more polite, but I do > understand that the circumstances that led to other ports being done > _at all_ were very unique ones and that they have no interest in doing > any additional "non strategic" ports. Compared to their DOS/Jaguar/3DO > base, FreeBSD and Linux put together don't even register as a blip. The README file from QNX says that this port was done by QNX using the sources they got from ID. They say that the port was done nearly in 1 day because it was written very portable. I think QNX has signed some NDA with ID about these sources :-( Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 02:14:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA12122 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:14:46 -0700 Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA12116 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:14:41 -0700 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA06082; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:12:01 +0100 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:11:58 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: <199507260739.NAA06514@hq.icb.chel.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > > > > I believe the last time someone asked, the response from Id Software > > > was ``NO, NEVER.'' In all-caps, even. > > > > I think they're rather sick of being asked.. :-) > > > > My own conversations with them have been rather more polite, but I do > > understand that the circumstances that led to other ports being done > > _at all_ were very unique ones and that they have no interest in doing > > any additional "non strategic" ports. Compared to their DOS/Jaguar/3DO > > base, FreeBSD and Linux put together don't even register as a blip. > > The README file from QNX says that this port was done by QNX using > the sources they got from ID. They say that the port was done nearly in > 1 day because it was written very portable. I think QNX has signed > some NDA with ID about these sources :-( So, Jordan, why don't you approach then in the guise of FreeBSD inc. and do whatever is nescessary (short of handing them money) and do the port. I am sure you can fit it into your schedule... -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 02:28:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA12630 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:28:52 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA12623 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:28:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA19115; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:24:18 -0700 To: Doug Rabson cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:11:58 BST." Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:24:17 -0700 Message-ID: <19112.806750657@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > So, Jordan, why don't you approach then in the guise of FreeBSD inc. and > do whatever is nescessary (short of handing them money) and do the port. > I am sure you can fit it into your schedule... Ha. Ha. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 02:34:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA12899 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:34:25 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA12892 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:34:23 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA02641; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:32:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199507260932.CAA02641@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Doug Rabson cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:11:58 BST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:32:42 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Doug Rabson said: > > So, Jordan, why don't you approach then in the guise of FreeBSD inc. and > do whatever is nescessary (short of handing them money) and do the port. > I am sure you can fit it into your schedule... > Perhaps someone should approach the makers of Descent and ask them for a FreeBSD port 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 03:50:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA14966 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:50:55 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA14960 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:50:52 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA03758 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:50:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199507261050.DAA03758@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:50:51 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Gee has anything changed lately. mwm no longer runs . ivs is getting a strange error. ivs used to run fine about a week ago or so . I have the sources for ivs so I can recompile the app however mwm is a different story. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 04:05:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA15482 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 04:05:17 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA15476 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 04:05:11 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sb4Dy-000I3iC; Wed, 26 Jul 95 13:02 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0sb431-00001JC; Wed, 26 Jul 95 12:50 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:50:43 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199507260636.XAA07737@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jul 25, 95 11:36:27 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 603 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Poul-Henning Kamp: > > Do many other readers of hackers apart from me also not have a sound card ? Yeees. > > I get too much mail, & having an audio@freebsd.org list, would remove > > some traffic from hackers, & would save me mail load :-). > > I guess "multimedia@freebsd.org" would be better, and YES PLEASE ! Seconded and seconded. I think the multimedia related traffic here justifies another ml. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 04:49:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA16602 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 04:49:29 -0700 Received: from fathergoose.net6c.io.org (fathergoose.net6c.io.org [204.92.6.86]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16594 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 04:49:26 -0700 Received: (from kwong@localhost) by fathergoose.net6c.io.org (8.6.11/8.6.10) id GAA00245; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 06:06:44 -0400 From: Ken Wong Message-Id: <199507261006.GAA00245@fathergoose.net6c.io.org> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 06:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507250250.AA12919@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 24, 95 08:50:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 394 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote : > > Is it to avoid having to do one of: > > o Lock the port baud rate between the computer and the modem > o Have the user use the break character to cause the getty > to rotor through its baud rate list > o Use an mgetty type program to interpret the baud string > following the connect message Do we have mgetty yet? if we do can you tell me where it is. Ken Wong From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 05:02:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA17349 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:02:42 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA17343 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:02:31 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55304>; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:01:33 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA04824; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:10:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199507261010.MAA04824@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: harry@hgac.com (Harry Goldschmitt) cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka), jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, pas@tonesoft.com Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:06:16 +0200." Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:10:57 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > but I haven't seen one yet that can > be configured for the modem to serial port speed! Datatronics Discovery 9632AM - the yellow knob on back does it ! Julian S jhs@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 05:05:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA17518 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:05:56 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA17478 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:05:33 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55368>; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:04:15 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA13081; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:38:43 +0200 Message-Id: <199507252338.BAA13081@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: John Beukema , Nate Williams , Karl Denninger , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jul 1995 06:26:51 +0200." <475.806473611@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:38:41 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk jkh wrote: > I'd welcome any comparative data those > of you out there might have as I've never personally purchased a UN*X > support contract. How much do the "big boys" charge for such things > and what level of service do they generally provide? Zilog in 1984 (through their 3 UK distribs) somewhere between 10% & 20% of purchase price for their Z8000 Unix 8 & 16 port boxes. I think in fact it was about 20% if hardware support included. Doesn't really help you much I know, but that's all i can recall. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 05:06:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA17537 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:06:04 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA17514 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:05:53 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55366>; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:05:18 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA14113; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:17:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199507260017.CAA14113@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:57:14 +0200." <199507240757.AAA20449@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:17:51 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Satoshi, > Well, we got replies from two others, Jordan's "I prefer it nuked" and > Julian's "nuke it if you want". And we can still delete it with a > group decision. I believe I wrote `need' rather than `want' ? ie if it was actively getting in your way, nuke it, subsequent to that I was pleased to read Rod had fixed the problem you originally raised. I have disabled my personal usage of cascade make of src & then ports lately, as the ports tree never compiles straight through - ever - (this is no personal accusation BTW, I know you work V. hard on ports, but it's a massive tree, & doesnt get the massed attention src does). Perhaps we should worry less about the style issues of src/Makefile, & more about getting a crontab driven twice (at least) per week make of ports, with an automatic tail -30 typescript | mail ports ? Julian S jhs@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 05:35:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA18189 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:35:52 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA18182 ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:35:48 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id IAA15606; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:24:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:24:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Julian Stacey , hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507260636.XAA07737@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > I get too much mail, & having an audio@freebsd.org list, would remove > > some traffic from hackers, & would save me mail load :-). > > I guess "multimedia@freebsd.org" would be better, and YES PLEASE ! > done. hey guys! there is a new mailing list. freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org (aka multimedia@freebsd.org) here is the info on the list. please send suggested info changes either to me or to multimedia@freebsd.org its majordomo. use the usual commands (subscribe, unsubscribe, info, who, etc...) jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 07:50:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA21886 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:50:11 -0700 Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.191.196.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21880 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:50:03 -0700 Received: by misery.sdf.com id <1085-2>; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:48:40 +0100 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Christoph Kukulies cc: user alias Subject: Re: I hosed my system with a -current kernel In-Reply-To: <199507251539.RAA06643@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Michael Vernick wrote: > > > > > Sorry that I'm not responding to your question, but did you get any > > > answers? I've also seemed to have hosed my kernel and need a way to > > > copy a kernel from floppy back to the hard disk so I can reboot. > > > > Is "kernel.GENERIC" hosed too? If not, just type its name at the boot > > prompt to boot it instead. > > I have a bunch of kernels in /. None of them works. It's a file system > problem. > I'm getting: > > WARNING: / was not properly dismounted > panic: ffs_write() (some such) > > The panic happens with whatever kernel I choose. > > > I'm trying to build a fixit.flp on another machine > now for some hours to no avail. I copied the 2.0.5-RELEASE-CD src > tree (from the live fs CD) to the disk and try to > > make RELEASEDIR=/usr/tmp CHROOTDIR=/home BUILDNAME=FIXIT fixit.flp > (and some other targets which broke here and there). > And it wiped out my /home dir :-( (grrrr) > > Now I'm trying to build world first and then make relase. > Making release only resulted in crt0.o not being found at some > early stage. > > > > > > Tom > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: > Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: > /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 07:57:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA22167 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:57:28 -0700 Received: from lupine.nsi.nasa.gov (lupine.nsi.nasa.gov [198.116.2.100]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA22161 ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:57:26 -0700 Received: (from mnewell@localhost) by lupine.nsi.nasa.gov (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA25854; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:55:09 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:55:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael C. Newell" To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Julian Stacey , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is the new replacing Amancio's? Will those of us who are on his list be auto-registered to the new one, or will the two lists mirror? I don't want two copies of each message, but this topic is important to my work so I don't want to miss anything either... :-) Thanks!! Mike On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:24:54 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jonathan M. Bresler > To: Poul-Henning Kamp > Cc: Julian Stacey , > hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd > > On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > I get too much mail, & having an audio@freebsd.org list, would remove > > > some traffic from hackers, & would save me mail load :-). > > > > I guess "multimedia@freebsd.org" would be better, and YES PLEASE ! > > > > done. > > hey guys! there is a new mailing list. > freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org (aka multimedia@freebsd.org) here is the > info on the list. please send suggested info changes either to me or to > multimedia@freebsd.org > > its majordomo. use the usual commands (subscribe, unsubscribe, > info, who, etc...) > > jmb > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. > FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy > play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 > ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 > > Thanks, Mike +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ |Mike Newell | The opinions expressed herein are | |NASA Science Internet Network Systems | my own, and do not necessarily | |Sterling Software, Inc. | reflect those of the NSI program, | |MNewell@nsipo.nasa.gov | Sterling Software, NASA, or anyone | |+1-202-434-8954 | else. | +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ | work: http://www.eco.nsi.nasa.gov/~mnewell | | home: http://www.newell.arlington.va.us | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 08:08:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA22780 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:08:37 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22770 ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:08:26 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id KAA19637; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:57:22 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:57:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd To: "Michael C. Newell" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Julian Stacey , hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Michael C. Newell wrote: > Is the new replacing Amancio's? Will those of us who are on his list be > auto-registered to the new one, or will the two lists mirror? I don't want > two copies of each message, but this topic is important to my work so I don't > want to miss anything either... :-) > > Thanks!! good question! i'll send mail to him and ask about how we will coordinate. thanks for the pointer to his list. i did not know about it. > > Mike > > On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:24:54 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Jonathan M. Bresler > > To: Poul-Henning Kamp > > Cc: Julian Stacey , > > hackers@FreeBSD.org > > Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd > > > > On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > > I get too much mail, & having an audio@freebsd.org list, would remove > > > > some traffic from hackers, & would save me mail load :-). > > > > > > I guess "multimedia@freebsd.org" would be better, and YES PLEASE ! > > > > > > > done. > > > > hey guys! there is a new mailing list. > > freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org (aka multimedia@freebsd.org) here is the > > info on the list. please send suggested info changes either to me or to > > multimedia@freebsd.org > > > > its majordomo. use the usual commands (subscribe, unsubscribe, > > info, who, etc...) > > > > jmb > > > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. > > FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy > > play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 > > ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 > > > > > > Thanks, > > Mike > > +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ > |Mike Newell | The opinions expressed herein are | > |NASA Science Internet Network Systems | my own, and do not necessarily | > |Sterling Software, Inc. | reflect those of the NSI program, | > |MNewell@nsipo.nasa.gov | Sterling Software, NASA, or anyone | > |+1-202-434-8954 | else. | > +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ > | work: http://www.eco.nsi.nasa.gov/~mnewell | > | home: http://www.newell.arlington.va.us | > +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 08:42:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA24662 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:42:01 -0700 Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA24655 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:41:57 -0700 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id LAA02179; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:41:51 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id LAA04841; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:41:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:41:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-Reply-To: <199507261050.DAA03758@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > Gee has anything changed lately. > > mwm no longer runs . > ivs is getting a strange error. ivs used to run fine about a week ago or so . > I have the sources for ivs so I can recompile the app however mwm is > a different story. > > Amancio > Every time I build an application that adds a shared lib, I get this. One reboot later it's gone. Haven't check on more than that yet. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0R) and n3lxx (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 2.0.5-snap) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 09:08:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA25746 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:08:10 -0700 Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA25734 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:08:06 -0700 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id MAA03042; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:08:00 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id MAA05478; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:07:57 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Doug Rabson cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thanks, about ld.so. I've been kinda busy lately with personal stuff, but you were, I remember, making some change in ld.so with respect to initializing c++ objects. Do you know if that change made it into the 950622 snap? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0R) and n3lxx (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 2.0.5-snap) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 09:32:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA26648 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:32:56 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA26639 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:32:52 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA21929; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:21:08 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:21:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 To: Chuck Robey cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Chuck Robey wrote: > > mwm no longer runs . > > ivs is getting a strange error. ivs used to run fine about a week ago or so . > > I have the sources for ivs so I can recompile the app however mwm is > > a different story. > > > > Amancio > > > > Every time I build an application that adds a shared lib, I get this. > One reboot later it's gone. Haven't check on more than that yet. after adding a shared lib you need to run ldconfig. as in: /sbin/ldconfig /usr/lib /usr/X11R6/lib /usr/local/lib you can check shared lib vs app requirements with ldd: Aspen: {3} ldd `which xterm` /usr/X11/bin/xterm: -lXaw.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXaw.so.6.0 (0x8039000) -lXmu.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6.0 (0x806f000) -lXt.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6.0 (0x807f000) -lX11.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6.0 (0x80c0000) -lSM.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6.0 (0x813b000) -lICE.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6.0 (0x8143000) -lXext.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6.0 (0x8155000) -ltermcap.2 => /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.0 (0x815d000) -lgcc.261 => /usr/lib/libgcc.so.261.0 (0x815f000) -lc.2 => /usr/lib/libc.so.2.1 (0x8163000) Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 09:33:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA26695 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:33:30 -0700 Received: from crash.ops.neosoft.com (crash.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.50]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA26688 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:33:29 -0700 Received: (from smace@localhost) by crash.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) id LAA00261; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:28:36 -0500 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199507261628.LAA00261@crash.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: Re: tclX To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:28:36 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Jul 26, 95 11:38:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 772 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I am going about getting my new environment compiled under 2.0.5, and I'm > to the tcl stuff. I need to get my favorite debugger working, which is > tgdb, and that needs a wish with a horde of extensions. I am working now > on tclX. I haven't yet got the cdrom, so I downloaded the ports, and > have been having trouble with the 'make test' under tclX. Make test > works under tcl, and a very slight glitch under tk. Under tclX, I get a > floating point exception. I don't know much about floating point, which > I rarely do (unless there's a gun at my head), so I am wondering if > anyone else has been able to get tclX to build, and run the 'make test' > successfully? > FP stuff still? hmm I thought that had been fixed a long time ago. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 10:42:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA00980 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:42:47 -0700 Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00970 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:42:45 -0700 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id NAA06027; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:42:10 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id NAA07845; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:41:44 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:41:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Scott Mace cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tclX In-Reply-To: <199507261628.LAA00261@crash.ops.neosoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Scott Mace wrote: > > > > I am going about getting my new environment compiled under 2.0.5, and I'm > > to the tcl stuff. I need to get my favorite debugger working, which is > > tgdb, and that needs a wish with a horde of extensions. I am working now > > on tclX. I haven't yet got the cdrom, so I downloaded the ports, and > > have been having trouble with the 'make test' under tclX. Make test > > works under tcl, and a very slight glitch under tk. Under tclX, I get a > > floating point exception. I don't know much about floating point, which > > I rarely do (unless there's a gun at my head), so I am wondering if > > anyone else has been able to get tclX to build, and run the 'make test' > > successfully? > > > > > FP stuff still? hmm I thought that had been fixed a long time ago. True, for tcl/tk, but this is tclX. Unless I missed something ... ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0R) and n3lxx (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 2.0.5-snap) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 10:48:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA01590 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:48:06 -0700 Received: from Relay1.Austria.EU.net (relay1.Austria.EU.net [192.92.138.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA01571 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:48:00 -0700 From: Marino.Ladavac@aut.alcatel.at Received: from aut.alcatel.at (dnisun.aut.alcatel.at) by Relay1.Austria.EU.net with SMTP id AA27950 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:47:45 +0200 Received: from atuhc16 by aut.alcatel.at (4.1/SMI-4.1/AAA-1.29/main) id AA02751; Wed, 26 Jul 95 19:47:54 +0200 Message-Id: <9507261747.AA02751@atuhc16.aut.alcatel.at> Received: by atuhc16 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA04554; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:47:50 +0200 Subject: Scheduling Algorithms (was: Re: panic in brelse() ... ) To: davidg@root.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 19:47:49 METDST Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507260850.BAA27035@corbin.Root.COM>; from "David Greenman" at Jul 26, 95 1:50 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ Mr. Matt Dillon explains his scheduling algorithm which he intends to test ] Matt, if I recollect correctly, you submitted this to the Linux camp, and I remember people using it. What were their comments? (please excuse me for being on first name basis :) [ Mr. David Greenman responds: ] > We've messed with the scheduling algorithm quite a bit since the original > one in 4.4BSD, and I think have made substantial improvements. Our main > concern was that compute-bound processes must execute in a lower priority queue > and there needs to be some form of backward inheritence of CPU consumption/ > priority. Without this, people doing compiles (or other compute-intensive > things) will quickly bring the system to it's knees. In the old model, CPU > priorities were evaluated once per second. This is fine for slow computers that > take a couple of minutes to compile your average C file, but on fast machines > that can do it in 1-2 seconds, we found that the compile job was always in the > foreground - making the system appear very sluggish to interactive users. I'd > like to here more about how your algorithm works in real-world situations and > especially how it functions across the spectrum of system loading. Maybe I shouldn't comment on this, as I am not familiar with the actual implementation, but Amiga had an interesting scheme of linearly increasing dispatch priorities, which were incremented by process priority. I.e., it took very few slices for a high priority process to be the one with the highest dispatch priority, but even the low priority processes did get executed. CPU consumption can be fed back with time slice consumption. Arithmetic can be replaced with run queue shifts. Sounds SysV-ish, eh? Was just a thought. Any obvious flaws there? /Alby. > -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 11:16:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA04222 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:16:25 -0700 Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04210 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:16:21 -0700 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id LAA09880; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:15:03 -0700 Received: from plokta.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-5.3) id AA28765; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:14:58 -0700 Received: by plokta.Eng.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA08617; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:14:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:14:41 -0700 Message-Id: <9507261814.AA08617@plokta.Eng.Sun.COM> From: "Bryan O'Sullivan" To: eyfarris@gdwest.gd.com (Eblan Y Farris) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Plan9 - a salutory tale In-Reply-To: <9507260355.AA11554@gdwest.gd.com> References: <9507260355.AA11554@gdwest.gd.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk e> Does it come with an Xwindow environment [...] The default Plan 9 windowing system, 8 1/2, is not in any way compatible with X. However, Plan 9 does offer the possibility of running X in an 8 1/2 window. e> [...] and WebBrowser [...] Not so far as I know. It does have TCP/IP networking, though, so you should be able to run Mosaic from another machine with the display set to your Plan 9 machine. It also has Unix emulation libraries, but it doesn't come with Motif libraries, so you won't be able to recompile Mosaic or Athena. Even getting something like Tk compiled would probably be a lot of pain and, well, that's not what Plan 9 was meant for, anyway. As to whether there is anything FreeBSD can learn from Plan 9, I don't think so. I think that the evolution of Unix away from a Version 7esque spartan set of functionality has been a Good Thing for people who want to get actual work done (as opposed to research), and Rob Pike's philosophy is firmly in the Version 7 mould -- not something to emulate, in other words. ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:27:42 -0700 Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA04252 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:27:09 -0700 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA08598; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:23:27 +0100 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:23:26 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Chuck Robey cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Chuck Robey wrote: > Thanks, about ld.so. I've been kinda busy lately with personal stuff, > but you were, I remember, making some change in ld.so with respect to > initializing c++ objects. Do you know if that change made it into the > 950622 snap? I remember that Jordan pulled it into the STABLE branch but I can't remember whether it was before or after the snap. Jordan? -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 11:39:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA08401 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:39:24 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA08388 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:39:21 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA22766; Wed, 26 Jul 95 12:30:59 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507261830.AA22766@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: kwong@fathergoose.net6c.io.org (Ken Wong) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 12:30:59 MDT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507261006.GAA00245@fathergoose.net6c.io.org> from "Ken Wong" at Jul 26, 95 06:06:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert wrote : > > > > Is it to avoid having to do one of: > > > > o Lock the port baud rate between the computer and the modem > > o Have the user use the break character to cause the getty > > to rotor through its baud rate list > > o Use an mgetty type program to interpret the baud string > > following the connect message > > Do we have mgetty yet? if we do can you tell me where it is. In the fax software in ports. It compiles on BSD pretty much without changes (just config issues). I can't help more than that, since I'm morally opposed to the way it is implemented in the first place. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 11:41:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA08683 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:41:10 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA08670 ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:41:08 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA05514; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:40:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199507261840.LAA05514@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Michael C. Newell" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Poul-Henning Kamp , Julian Stacey , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:55:08 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:40:43 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I am keeping my mailing list part of the reason is because I can control the noise level. Perhaps with tools such as "bat" others from different OSes will be interested in joining. Those who don't want to be part of it can simply send a message to : majordomo@star-gate.com unsubscribe multimedia If my subscription level gets too a low level then I will drop the mailing list. Regards, Amancio >>> "Michael C. Newell" said: > Is the new replacing Amancio's? Will those of us who are on his list be > auto-registered to the new one, or will the two lists mirror? I don't want > two copies of each message, but this topic is important to my work so I don' t > want to miss anything either... :-) > > Thanks!! > > Mike > > On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:24:54 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Jonathan M. Bresler > > To: Poul-Henning Kamp > > Cc: Julian Stacey , > > hackers@FreeBSD.org > > Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd > > > > On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > > I get too much mail, & having an audio@freebsd.org list, would remove > > > > some traffic from hackers, & would save me mail load :-). > > > > > > I guess "multimedia@freebsd.org" would be better, and YES PLEASE ! > > > > > > > done. > > > > hey guys! there is a new mailing list. > > freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org (aka multimedia@freebsd.org) here is the > > info on the list. please send suggested info changes either to me or to > > multimedia@freebsd.org > > > > its majordomo. use the usual commands (subscribe, unsubscribe, > > info, who, etc...) > > > > jmb > > > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, I nc. > > FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy > > play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 > > ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 > > > > > > Thanks, > > Mike > > +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------ + > |Mike Newell | The opinions expressed herein are | > |NASA Science Internet Network Systems | my own, and do not necessarily | > |Sterling Software, Inc. | reflect those of the NSI program, | > |MNewell@nsipo.nasa.gov | Sterling Software, NASA, or anyone | > |+1-202-434-8954 | else. | > +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------ + > | work: http://www.eco.nsi.nasa.gov/~mnewell | > | home: http://www.newell.arlington.va.us | > +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 11:46:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA09661 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:46:55 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA09651 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:46:53 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA05577; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:46:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199507261846.LAA05577@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Chuck Robey , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:21:03 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:46:14 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jonathan M. Bresler" said: > On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > mwm no longer runs . > > > ivs is getting a strange error. ivs used to run fine about a week ago or so . > > > I have the sources for ivs so I can recompile the app however mwm is > > > a different story. > > > > > > Amancio > > > > > > > Every time I build an application that adds a shared lib, I get this. > > One reboot later it's gone. Haven't check on more than that yet. > > after adding a shared lib you need to run ldconfig. as in: > > /sbin/ldconfig /usr/lib /usr/X11R6/lib /usr/local/lib > > > you can check shared lib vs app requirements with ldd: > > Aspen: {3} ldd `which xterm` > /usr/X11/bin/xterm: > -lXaw.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXaw.so.6.0 (0x8039000) > -lXmu.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6.0 (0x806f000) > -lXt.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6.0 (0x807f000) > -lX11.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6.0 (0x80c0000) > -lSM.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6.0 (0x813b000) > -lICE.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6.0 (0x8143000) > -lXext.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6.0 (0x8155000) > -ltermcap.2 => /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.0 (0x815d000) > -lgcc.261 => /usr/lib/libgcc.so.261.0 (0x815f000) > -lc.2 => /usr/lib/libc.so.2.1 (0x8163000) > > Tnks for the tip and the problem is that libcompat.a is not longer build as a shareable object and ivs was linked with the shared object libcompat. here is what ldd with mwm does: ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/mwm /usr/X11R6/bin/mwm: Here are the last few bits of ktrace on mwm: 5570 mwm RET mprotect 0 5570 mwm CALL mmap(0x8226000,0,0x7,0x1012,0xffffffff,0,0,0) 5570 mwm RET mmap 136470528/0x8226000 5570 mwm CALL close(0x5) 5570 mwm RET close 0 5570 mwm CALL open(0x80fdf11,0,0) 5570 mwm NAMI "/usr/lib/libg++.so.2.0" 5570 mwm RET open 5 5570 mwm CALL read(0x5,0xefbfd6c4,0x20) 5570 mwm GIO fd 5 read 32 bytes "\M-L\0\M^F\M-@\0\M-p\^E\0\0000\0\0\0\0\0\0@\M^C\0\0 \0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\ \0\0" 5570 mwm RET read 32/0x20 5570 mwm CALL mmap(0,0x62000,0x5,0x2,0x5,0,0,0) 5570 mwm RET mmap 136470528/0x8226000 5570 mwm CALL mprotect(0x8285000,0x3000,0x7) 5570 mwm RET mprotect 0 5570 mwm CALL mmap(0x8288000,0,0x7,0x1012,0xffffffff,0,0,0) 5570 mwm RET mmap 136871936/0x8288000 5570 mwm CALL close(0x5) 5570 mwm RET close 0 5570 mwm PSIG SIGBUS SIG_DFL 5570 mwm NAMI "mwm.core" Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 11:58:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA11705 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:58:55 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA11690 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:58:51 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA05671; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:56:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199507261856.LAA05671@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Doug Rabson cc: Chuck Robey , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:58:52 BST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:56:20 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Doug Rabson said: > On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > > > > > Gee has anything changed lately. > > > > > > mwm no longer runs . > > > ivs is getting a strange error. ivs used to run fine about a week ago or so . > > > I have the sources for ivs so I can recompile the app however mwm is > > > a different story. > > > > > > Amancio > > > > > > > Every time I build an application that adds a shared lib, I get this. > > One reboot later it's gone. Haven't check on more than that yet. > > You just need to run: > > ldconfig -m > > This searches the directory and adds any shared libs to > /var/run/ld.so.hints so that they can be found by the app. > Tnks! But I have rebooted several times --- I got to play Descent once in a while :) if I am not mistaken ldconfig gets run during the boot sequence. And I have done ldconfig several times. Something is wrong here and I suspect ld.so . Also, I have done several sups over the last week hoping to get all the commits and that I didn't a get a submit in the middle which will cause the behavior that I am experiencing. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 12:06:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA12767 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:06:03 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA12756 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:06:01 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA05797 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:05:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199507261905.MAA05797@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:55:47 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:05:58 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One of the reasons that I am deciding to keep my mailing list is because it was started quite a few From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 13:23:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20486 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:23:25 -0700 Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20477 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:23:13 -0700 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id QAA10626; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:17:05 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id QAA11561; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:17:17 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:17:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Doug Rabson , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-Reply-To: <20412.806785638@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > It was after. See the snap I'm about to release.. Uh oh, that's Not Good(tm). And there's no non-destructive method of upgrading from the 0622 snap, unless Jordan has been hiding something. Is there any other way to get those ld.so improvements? I'm going to need them. > > Jordan > > > On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > > Thanks, about ld.so. I've been kinda busy lately with personal stuff, > > > but you were, I remember, making some change in ld.so with respect to > > > initializing c++ objects. Do you know if that change made it into the > > > 950622 snap? > > > > I remember that Jordan pulled it into the STABLE branch but I can't > > remember whether it was before or after the snap. Jordan? > > > > -- > > Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com > > Phone: +44 171 251 4411 > > FAX: +44 171 251 0939 > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0R) and n3lxx (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 2.0.5-snap) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 13:43:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA21518 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:43:57 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21510 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:43:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20790; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:39:00 -0700 To: Chuck Robey cc: Doug Rabson , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:17:16 EDT." Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:38:59 -0700 Message-ID: <20788.806791139@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Uh oh, that's Not Good(tm). And there's no non-destructive method of > upgrading from the 0622 snap, unless Jordan has been hiding something. > Is there any other way to get those ld.so improvements? I'm going to > need them. Grab them out of -current. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 14:35:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA23625 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:35:26 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA23617 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:35:24 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA23296; Wed, 26 Jul 95 15:09:58 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507262109.AA23296@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Scheduling Algorithms (was: Re: panic in brelse() ... ) To: Marino.Ladavac@aut.alcatel.at Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 15:09:58 MDT Cc: davidg@root.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507261747.AA02751@atuhc16.aut.alcatel.at> from "Marino.Ladavac@aut.alcatel.at" at Jul 26, 95 07:47:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ ... a proposed linear reduction scheduling algorithm ... ] [ ... the BSD 4.4 algorithm ... ] [ ... the current FreeBSD modified BSD 4,.4 algorithm ... ] [ ... the Amiga time base promotion algorithm ... ] I think all of these algorithms miss the boat, if we are to be able to support RT scheduling and SMP scheduling. The main issue in both of these tasks that are on the table is a divorce of the ready-to-run state from the act of running the code. I think that this really implies seperate queues based on priority. It's necessary because multiple processes can be in the run state (for SMP, or even for kernel premption), and RT processes have to be able to be pigs as much as they want (if they are supported). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 15:51:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA26131 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:51:12 -0700 Received: from forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.33.75]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA26125 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:51:11 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02645; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:51:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:51:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199507262251.PAA02645@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu CC: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Chuck Robey on Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:41:45 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (Note, the original problem with libcompat shared library was a totally different issue, but since you brought this up anyway....) * Every time I build an application that adds a shared lib, I get this. * One reboot later it's gone. Haven't check on more than that yet. The ports and packages now use the new "-m" option to ldconfig to automatically add shared libraries to the cache when installed. You need to be running a fairly recent -current (the change went in on 6/24) or the next snap (not released yet) for this to work. If you are running these, have the latest ports stuff, and still see the ld.so undefined error message before reboot, please send mail to the ports list. This is one of the most annoying but un-frequently asked questions (probably because it goes away after reboot), and I'm intent to squashing every bit of it into a dense cube of collapsed atoms and throw it into Cygnus X-1. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 18:25:58 1995 Return-Path: jmb Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA00754 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:25:58 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:25:58 -0700 From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199507270125.SAA00754@freefall.cdrom.com> To: freebsd-hackers-outgoing Subject: ignore ignore ;(( have to test something From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 19:49:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA02924 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:49:31 -0700 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA02912 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:49:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199507270249.TAA02912@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA177183373; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:49:33 -0400 Subject: Thanks for 2.0.5 To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:49:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "William Pechter ILEX Systems" Reply-To: pechter@sesd.ilex.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0a5] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 903 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Folks -- thank you for your great work on 2.0.5. I've been working with a 386SX25 -- since my 486 was out for repair. I found the performance and stability as good as 1.1.5.1 already. The 486 returned after some chip and battery replacement surgery. I quickly booted 2.0.5 -- I forgot how good FreeBSD could be on a relatively quick machine. X and Netscape performed nicely. A powerhit cost me some files. (#$@#!@#^ New Jersey shore thunderstorms). I noticed there's no longer a lost+found directory created when newfs builds a file system -- is there a reason? (I'm going back to the 2.0.5 system to install news.) Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | N2RDI Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2369 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 22:14:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA06306 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:14:23 -0700 Received: from virgo.ai.net (virgo.ai.net [198.69.44.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA06300 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:14:20 -0700 Received: from aries.ai.net (aries.ai.net [198.69.44.1]) by virgo.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA13034 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 01:23:01 -0400 Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id BAA25741; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 01:12:52 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 01:12:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Sliplogin exit 256?! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have been having problem with random slip line failures. A line will be working just fine, and then for no reason, and without a single modification [or reboot] to any file, slip login will begin to fail for that user. Not all users mind you, just one or two here or there. The error it gives is exit 256, which as far as I can tell is undocumented. The only way I can get these to work again is by essentially moving the account name around in the slip.hosts file [not reconfiguring, just moving it from say line 3, to line 13, and then when it fails later, I move it to line 5, etc.] Any ideas or similar experiences? Thanks, -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 22:29:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA07363 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:29:12 -0700 Received: from tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com (tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA07357 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:29:11 -0700 From: mikebo@tellabs.com Received: from tellabk.tellabs.com by tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0sbLKJ-000jC5C; Thu, 27 Jul 95 00:17 CDT Received: by tellabk.tellabs.com (4.1/1.9) id AA15478; Thu, 27 Jul 95 00:17:42 CDT Message-Id: <9507270517.AA15478@tellabk.tellabs.com> Subject: FBSD v2.0.5: NFS to multi-homed servers broken To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:17:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: mikebo (Mike Borowiec) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1784 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Greetings - A fellow BSDer and myself are both seeing a problem with FreeBSD 2.0.5 clients that attempt to mount partitions from multi-homed servers... It looks like the culprit might be changes made to clnt_udp.c:clntudp_call to create UDP socket connections. It looks like this change was made to quickly figure out whether the other end was actually there without waiting for the timeout. This is different than the Sun method. Unfortunately, it also breaks in a spectacular way. On our boxes, mount_nfs can't talk to the portmapper to even figure out whether NFS is there. Due to the route table on the server, the portmapper reply may come back with a different source address than the destination address associated with the connection. In this case the kernel obligingly drops the packet and sends a port unreachable back to the server. Clearly, this is undesirable behaviour... we don't *know* which interface the reply might come from. Perhaps it would be better to accept the packet regardless of its source address, i.e. if the lookup fails in udp_input and inp_faddr is not INADDR_ANY, try the lookup again with INADDR_ANY, and it would probably work. Comments anyone...? - Mike PS> I appreciate the good intentions of those that wrote suggesting that I try the "noconn" option (aka. the "-c" flag to mount_nfs). Unfortunately, that's *not* the solution to this problem - no effect. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec Network Operations Tellabs Operations, Inc. mikebo@TELLABS.COM 1000 Remington Blvd. MS109 708-378-6007 FAX: 708-378-6714 Bolingbrook, IL, USA 60440 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 23:15:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA10105 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:15:03 -0700 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10099 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:15:02 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA01188 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:16:31 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA19229 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers); Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:50:49 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA22221; 26 Jul 95 22:06:17 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA22218 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.cdrom.com; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:06:16 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507270306.WAA22218@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: YOW sudden weirdness from my CD drive To: freebsd-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:06:15 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1646 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just fired up the old Toshiba XM3401 to read the FreeBSD 2.0.5 CDROM, and I'm getting errors! What does this mean? Jul 26 22:01:46 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea570 Jul 26 22:01:46 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af8924 Jul 26 22:01:46 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af899a Jul 26 22:01:47 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af8b06 Jul 26 22:01:47 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af8b7a Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea120 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea1a2 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea30c Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea470 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea4f2 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea5e8 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea660 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea6d8 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0aea754 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af882c Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af88a6 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af8a14 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af8a90 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af8bf2 Jul 26 22:01:54 bonkers /386bsd: isofs:RR[5] idflag=0xf0af8c6c I was getting these on a Linux CD, earlier, but I figured that just mean that those Linux folks had a weird CD. But this sucker looks like a straight Young Minds job. What's the buzz? (controller: Bustek 747, FreeBSD 1.1.5.1, with Terry Lambert's patch for Netscape) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 23:32:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA10904 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:32:06 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10898 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:32:05 -0700 Received: from winjef.somerset (slip153.hk.super.net [202.64.10.10]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id XAA27507 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:31:58 -0700 Received: (from john@localhost) by winjef.somerset (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01008; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:16:41 +0800 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:16:39 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Chuck Robey cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk see man ldconfig On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > > Gee has anything changed lately. > > > > mwm no longer runs . > > ivs is getting a strange error. ivs used to run fine about a week ago or so . > > I have the sources for ivs so I can recompile the app however mwm is > > a different story. > > > > Amancio > > > > Every time I build an application that adds a shared lib, I get this. > One reboot later it's gone. Haven't check on more than that yet. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0R) and n3lxx > (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 2.0.5-snap) and am I happy! > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 26 23:44:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA11153 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:44:26 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11147 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:44:23 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA00489 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:44:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199507270644.XAA00489@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:16:39 +0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:44:14 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So whats the story with libcompat? I tried to compile it as a shareable object: make building shared compat library (version 2.0) regex.so: Definition of symbol `_regerror' (multiply defined) regerror.so: Definition of symbol `_regerror' (multiply defined) *** Error code 1 Stop. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 00:21:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA11884 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:21:10 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA11871 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:21:08 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA28350; Thu, 27 Jul 95 01:14:05 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507270714.AA28350@cs.weber.edu> Subject: FS MOUNTROOT MODS ON FREEFALL To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 1:14:04 MDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The file ~terry/root_mods.tar on freefall.cdrom.com contains the initial file system modifications for the updated root mount code. The unmodified code has not been broken. This means that there's still a global function mountroot that is set in i386/i386/autoconf.c, and there is (in addition) a new global mountrootvfsops. This is basically grandfather support for the MSDOSFS root mount (which appears unusable), the CD9660 root mount (which appears to need flags instead of autodetecting the file system type like it should) and the NFS, which is just plain too bizarre for words. So nothing is broken by these patches, but the NFS, MSDOSFS, and CD9660FS changes will have to wait until later before autoconf can really be cleaned up. What is changed is that there is no longer an ffs_mountroot, an mfs_mountroot, or an lfs_mountroot; they've been rolled into the XXX_mount on a per fs type basis. There's a new routine in the vfs_conf.c file (seemed the most appropriate place; I didn't want to mix it in with the system calls) call vfs_mountroot that takes a vfsops vector as an argument. The vfs_unmountroot probably ought to be moved to the same file as vfs_mountroot, in any case. This makes root mount totally seperate from non-root mount, logically making the FS code more standalone and making the BSD code easier to hack on if you want to replace the whole VFS concept wholesale (for instance, you wanted to ROM BSD for a palm-top). The device definition really wants to move out of the file system specific code; for now I've left it in pending a cleanup of the NFS root mount. I expect there to be the concept of local (has a device node) media and non-local (network) media for a root device. The generalization of the root mount after the device move out of the per FS specific routines buys the ability to support multiple "root" devices in bsd, simultaneously. The intent with allowing (but not yet using) this is to allow for AFS style nomadic computing. Eventually, I'd like to see the mount of a file system and its attachment into a directory tree covering a vnode completely logically seperated. The goal is eventual support for nomadic computing and intermittant network connectivity coupled with local file replication with synchronization on reconnect. I've included the full text of the modified files, since I know that there has been some recent bug tracking in the v_data stuff in the ffs_vfsops in particular, and to preserve the $Id stuff for comparison purposes. Next stop will be either the mount system call and associated user space utilties, or the MSDOSFS. Is anyone working on code for the extended partition device level support? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 01:27:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA13050 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 01:27:30 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA13042 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 01:27:21 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55391>; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:26:15 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA08260; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:28:01 +0200 Message-Id: <199507261228.OAA08260@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:49:31 +0200." <199507252349.QAA24073@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:27:59 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I bet that you are a vi user :) Right. > First off the multimedia related questions is not a big deal since > not too many individuals post questions related to the multimedia stuff. Perspective ... when one doesnt have a sound card its all just noise ;-) > My multimedia mailing list was setup > mail majordomo@rah.star-gate.com Great, (except multimedia it isnt, that's just the salesman selling you a glossy name to hype the price for a sound card ! Or does your card do sound light smell vibration etc, like an over developed Sensuround cinema ;-) Could we please have a simple sound@freebsd.org or audio@freebsd.org where all these sound people could go discuss their interests :-) Then those of us who don't have/don't want sound, could simply ask sound/audio people to please echo `lists' | mail majordomo@freebsd.org & use the obvious list, Your multimedia@... is a nice idea, but I'll never remember the hostname, to be able to quote people, could we move it to freebsd.org please ? Julian S. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 02:04:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA14779 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:04:37 -0700 Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA14772 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:04:33 -0700 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA13226; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:05:12 +0100 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:05:10 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Chuck Robey , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-Reply-To: <199507261846.LAA05577@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > here is what ldd with mwm does: > ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/mwm > /usr/X11R6/bin/mwm: > > Here are the last few bits of ktrace on mwm: > > 5570 mwm RET mprotect 0 > 5570 mwm CALL mmap(0x8226000,0,0x7,0x1012,0xffffffff,0,0,0) > 5570 mwm RET mmap 136470528/0x8226000 > 5570 mwm CALL close(0x5) > 5570 mwm RET close 0 > 5570 mwm CALL open(0x80fdf11,0,0) > 5570 mwm NAMI "/usr/lib/libg++.so.2.0" > 5570 mwm RET open 5 > 5570 mwm CALL read(0x5,0xefbfd6c4,0x20) > 5570 mwm GIO fd 5 read 32 bytes > "\M-L\0\M^F\M-@\0\M-p\^E\0\0000\0\0\0\0\0\0@\M^C\0\0 \0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\ > \0\0" > 5570 mwm RET read 32/0x20 > 5570 mwm CALL mmap(0,0x62000,0x5,0x2,0x5,0,0,0) > 5570 mwm RET mmap 136470528/0x8226000 > 5570 mwm CALL mprotect(0x8285000,0x3000,0x7) > 5570 mwm RET mprotect 0 > 5570 mwm CALL mmap(0x8288000,0,0x7,0x1012,0xffffffff,0,0,0) > 5570 mwm RET mmap 136871936/0x8288000 > 5570 mwm CALL close(0x5) > 5570 mwm RET close 0 > 5570 mwm PSIG SIGBUS SIG_DFL > 5570 mwm NAMI "mwm.core" Is this the mwm from swim-2.0? I just ran it and it seems to work OK. If I remove libcompat.so.2.0 then it prints a helpful message telling me it is missing. Could you run it under gdb and get a backtrace? -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 02:19:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA15404 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:19:45 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA15398 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:19:42 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA03534 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:19:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199507270919.CAA03534@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Multimedia list : (was voice comms on freebsd ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:27:59 +0200." <199507261228.OAA08260@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:19:41 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, I am keeping my multimedia list it took some time to get it going since I have never created a mailing list and it was at least for me a bit of work. Definitly a process for creating a mailing list for FreeBSD ought to be in place. >"Julian Stacey " said: > > Great, (except multimedia it isnt, that's just the salesman selling you a > glossy name to hype the price for a sound card ! > Or does your card do sound light smell vibration etc, like an over developed > Sensuround cinema ;-) If you take out the smell bit out yes I do have an over developed Surround stereo system connected to my FreeBSD box; additionally, my FreeBSD can answer the phone for me so I may not be disturbed while I am watching a movie :) I am constantly kicking my self around for not getting my dirty hands on an infrared controller that my system desperatly needs. I hate to get up from my sofa just to pause a damn movie. Another way of looking at my mailing list is as a virtual group for purpose of multimedia related work. About the term multimedia: Sound Well, the GUS can put out dolby surround audio stream and if you have a surround stereo system you can lay back and enjoy the GUS like I have :) Granted the demo was on DOS however there is nothing stopping us from doing in it FreeBSD. Views & Sounds For starters , there is mpeg hardware support , H.261 for video conferencing, and video capture via an H.261 board or a more traditional video capture board support, X support for mpeg on the works so sound@freebsd.org will not cut it. Additionally, some of the projects will spill over into other OSes. A simple example "bat" my vat clone -- it has to interoperate with other RTPv2 tools and I received a few of requests already for rtp_testbed and bat from individuals not running FreeBSD. >Your multimedia@... is a nice idea, but I'll never remember the hostname, >to be able to quote people, could we move it to freebsd.org please ? As for you forgetting my host name is very easy look at any postings :) Now what we do need are *more* developers that fall into the Multimedia Arena! Cheers, Amancio P.S.: to subscribe to my multimedia list mail majordomo@star-gate.com subscribe multimedia From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 07:22:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA22724 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 07:22:49 -0700 Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA22678 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 07:22:34 -0700 Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (root@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id RAA11109 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:25:43 +0300 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA17453 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:41:59 +0300 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA03228 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:41:59 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199507271341.QAA03228@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Multimedia list -- it doesn't work! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:41:58 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1884 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Forwarded message: # From Mailer-Daemon@ig2.att.att.com Thu Jul 27 16:26:32 1995 # From: Mailer-Daemon@ig2.att.att.com # Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 07:35:43 EDT # Subject: Returned mail: User unknown # Message-Id: <9507271135.AB00831@ig2.att.att.com> # To: elvisti.kiev.ua!stesin@ig2.att.att.com # # ----- Transcript of session follows ----- # Connected to stargate.cb.att.com: # >>> RCPT To: # <<< 550 ... User unknown # 550 stargate.cb.att.com!majordomo... User unknown # # ----- Unsent message follows ----- # Return-Path: # Received: from att!elvisti.kiev.ua by ig2.att.att.com id AA00818; Thu, 27 Jul 95 07:35:43 EDT # Received: by gw2.att.com; Thu Jul 27 07:31:42 EST 1995 # Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (root@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) # with UUCP id OAA01999 for majordomo@stargate.com; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 14:33:35 +0300 # Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA11249 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:45:09 +0300 # Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA29226 for majordomo@stargate.com; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:45:08 +0300 # To: majordomo@stargate.com # Message-Id: # Organization: Electronni Visti NetNode # From: "Andrew V. Stesin" # Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:45:07 +0300 (EET DST) # X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.35 FreeBSD] # Lines: 7 # Mime-Version: 1.0 # Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii # Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # # # subscribe multimedia # end # -- # # With best wishes -- Andrew Stesin, Elvisti.Kiev.UA sysadmin. # -- With best wishes -- Andrew Stesin, Elvisti.Kiev.UA sysadmin. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 07:44:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA23391 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 07:44:36 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA23384 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 07:44:33 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA01203; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:46:32 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:46:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199507271446.IAA01203@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-Reply-To: <199507270644.XAA00489@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199507270644.XAA00489@rah.star-gate.com> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So whats the story with libcompat? It needs to be compiled static and not shared. :) > I tried to compile it as a shareable object: > make > building shared compat library (version 2.0) > regex.so: Definition of symbol `_regerror' (multiply defined) > regerror.so: Definition of symbol `_regerror' (multiply defined) > *** Error code 1 That is why it must be compiled shared. A *bug* in the loader prior to 2.0.5 allowed it to build shlibs with symbols that had multiple definitions. So, the symbol which was used depended on it's position in the build at creation time. In all honesty, this problem still exists with the static libraries as well, but since the loader isn't aware of multiply defined symbols because each .o file is unique it's not seen. The solution is to remove the dependency of libcompat in whatever program requires libcompat and send the changes back to the maintainer. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 08:39:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA26040 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:39:33 -0700 Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.191.196.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA26026 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:39:26 -0700 Received: by misery.sdf.com id <1131-1>; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:38:47 +0100 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:38:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Julian Stacey " cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-Reply-To: <199507261228.OAA08260@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Julian Stacey wrote: > Your multimedia@... is a nice idea, but I'll never remember the hostname, > to be able to quote people, could we move it to freebsd.org please ? No. The topic is not exclusively FreeBSD in nature. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 09:23:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA27315 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:23:40 -0700 Received: from modico.eleinf.uv.es (modico.eleinf.uv.es [147.156.7.158]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA27304 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:23:32 -0700 Received: (from rosich@localhost) by modico.eleinf.uv.es (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA01767 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:24:32 +0200 From: Paco Rosich Message-Id: <199507271624.SAA01767@modico.eleinf.uv.es> Subject: spanish keymap To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:24:30 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-Latin-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 7494 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I've seen that 2.0.5 still lacks a spanish syscons keymap so I'm including below the keymap I use in 1.1.5. May be you can use it for 2.1. regards, Paco. (ISO-8859-1 codes) # alt # scan cntrl alt alt cntrl lock # code base shift cntrl shift alt shift cntrl shift state # ------------------------------------------------------------------ 000 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 001 esc esc esc esc esc esc esc esc O 002 '1' '!' nop nop '|' '|' nop nop O 003 '2' '"' nul nul '@' '@' nul nul O 004 '3' 183 nop nop '#' '#' nop nop O 005 '4' '$' nop nop '4' '4' nop nop O 006 '5' '%' nop nop '5' '5' nop nop O 007 '6' '&' rs rs 172 172 rs rs O 008 '7' '/' esc esc '7' '7' esc esc O 009 '8' '(' nop nop '8' '8' nop nop O 010 '9' ')' gs gs '8' '8' gs gs O 011 '0' '=' nop nop '9' '9' nop nop O 012 ''' '?' nop nop ''' ''' nop nop O 013 161 191 nop nop ''' '`' nop nop O 014 bs bs del del bs bs del del O 015 ht btab nop nop ht btab nop nop O 016 'q' 'Q' dc1 dc1 'q' 'Q' dc1 dc1 C 017 'w' 'W' etb etb 'w' 'W' etb etb C 018 'e' 'E' enq enq 233 201 enq enq C 019 'r' 'R' dc2 dc2 'r' 'R' dc2 dc2 C 020 't' 'T' dc4 dc4 't' 'T' dc4 dc4 C 021 'y' 'Y' em em 'y' 'Y' sub sub C 022 'u' 'U' nak nak 250 218 nak nak C 023 'i' 'I' ht ht 237 205 ht ht C 024 'o' 'O' si si 243 211 si si C 025 'p' 'P' dle dle 'p' 'P' dle dle C 026 '`' '^' esc esc '[' '[' esc esc C 027 '+' '*' gs gs ']' '[' gs gs O 028 cr cr nl nl cr cr nl nl O 029 lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl O 030 'a' 'A' soh soh 225 193 soh soh C 031 's' 'S' dc3 dc3 's' 'S' dc3 dc3 C 032 'd' 'D' eot eot 'd' 'D' eot eot C 033 'f' 'F' ack ack 'f' 'F' ack ack C 034 'g' 'G' bel bel 'g' 'G' bel bel C 035 'h' 'H' bs bs 'h' 'H' bs bs C 036 'j' 'J' nl nl 'j' 'J' nl nl C 037 'k' 'K' vt vt 'k' 'K' vt vt C 038 'l' 'L' ff ff 'l' 'L' ff ff C 039 241 209 nop nop '~' nop nop nop C 040 252 220 nop nop '{' 220 nop nop C 041 186 170 fs fs '\' '\' fs fs O 042 lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift O 043 231 199 rs rs '}' '}' rs rs O 044 'z' 'Z' sub sub 'z' 'Z' em em C 045 'x' 'X' can can 'x' 'X' can can C 046 'c' 'C' etx etx 'c' 'C' etx etx C 047 'v' 'V' syn syn 'v' 'V' syn syn C 048 'b' 'B' stx stx 'b' 'B' stx stx C 049 'n' 'N' so so 'n' 'N' so so C 050 'm' 'M' cr cr 'm' 'M' cr cr C 051 ',' ';' nop nop ',' ';' nop nop O 052 '.' ':' nop nop '.' ':' nop nop O 053 '-' '_' ns ns '-' '_' ns ns O 054 rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift O 055 '*' '*' nscr nscr '*' '*' nscr nscr O 056 lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt O 057 ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' O 058 clock clock clock clock clock clock clock clock O 059 fkey01 fkey13 fkey25 fkey37 scr01 scr11 scr01 scr11 O 060 fkey02 fkey14 fkey26 fkey38 scr02 scr12 scr02 scr12 O 061 fkey03 fkey15 fkey27 fkey39 scr03 scr13 scr03 scr13 O 062 fkey04 fkey16 fkey28 fkey40 scr04 scr14 scr04 scr14 O 063 fkey05 fkey17 fkey29 fkey41 scr05 scr15 scr05 scr15 O 064 fkey06 fkey18 fkey30 fkey42 scr06 scr16 scr06 scr16 O 065 fkey07 fkey19 fkey31 fkey43 scr07 scr07 scr07 scr07 O 066 fkey08 fkey20 fkey32 fkey44 scr08 scr08 scr08 scr08 O 067 fkey09 fkey21 fkey33 fkey45 scr09 scr09 scr09 scr09 O 068 fkey10 fkey22 fkey34 fkey46 scr10 scr10 scr10 scr10 O 069 nlock nlock dc3 dc3 nlock nlock dc3 dc3 O 070 slock slock del del slock slock del del O 071 fkey49 '7' '7' '7' '7' '7' '7' '7' N 072 fkey50 '8' '8' '8' '8' '8' '8' '8' N 073 fkey51 '9' '9' '9' '9' '9' '9' '9' N 074 fkey52 '-' ns ns '-' '-' '-' '-' N 075 fkey53 '4' '4' '4' '4' '4' '4' '4' N 076 fkey54 '5' '5' '5' '5' '5' '5' '5' N 077 fkey55 '6' rs rs '6' '6' '6' '6' N 078 fkey56 '+' '+' '+' '+' '+' '+' '+' N 079 fkey57 '1' '1' '1' '1' '1' '1' '1' N 080 fkey58 '2' '2' '2' '2' '2' '2' '2' N 081 fkey59 '3' '3' '3' '3' '3' '3' '3' N 082 fkey60 '0' '0' '0' '0' '0' '0' '0' N 083 del '.' del del del del del del N 084 ns ns ns ns ns ns ns ns O 085 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 086 '<' '>' fs fs '\' '>' fs fs O 087 fkey11 fkey23 fkey35 fkey47 scr11 scr11 scr11 scr11 O 088 fkey12 fkey24 fkey36 fkey48 scr12 scr12 scr12 scr12 O 089 scr03 scr03 scr03 scr03 scr03 scr03 scr03 scr03 N 090 rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl O 091 '/' '/' '/' '/' '/' '/' '/' '/' N 092 '*' '*' '*' '*' '*' '*' '*' '*' N 093 ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt O 094 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 O 095 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 O 096 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 O 097 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 O 098 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 O 099 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 O 100 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 O 101 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 O 102 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 O 103 fkey54 fkey54 fkey54 fkey54 fkey54 fkey54 boot fkey54 O 104 slock slock slock slock slock slock slock slock O From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 09:23:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA27357 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:23:57 -0700 Received: from crash.ops.neosoft.com (crash.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.50]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA27351 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:23:54 -0700 Received: (from smace@localhost) by crash.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) id LAA05870 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:19:54 -0500 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199507271619.LAA05870@crash.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: BT946 4.25J firmware. anyone got it working? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:19:54 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 203 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just got a bt946 4.92e bios 4.25j firmware and was wondering if anyone had got it to work. I would much rather use the Adaptec pci model, but I can get this buslogic at a super good price... Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 10:12:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA29192 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:12:55 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29182 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:12:52 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA00638; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:13:16 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507271713.KAA00638@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: BT946 4.25J firmware. anyone got it working? To: smace@crash.ops.neosoft.com (Scott Mace) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507271619.LAA05870@crash.ops.neosoft.com> from "Scott Mace" at Jul 27, 95 11:19:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 789 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I just got a bt946 4.92e bios 4.25j firmware and was wondering if anyone had got it to > work. I would much rather use the Adaptec pci model, but I can get this buslogic at a > super good price... > If you get it to work, both me and BusLogic technical support would like to know exactly what motherboard you are using and other information about your configuration. I have yet to get the bt946E/4.92E/4.25J to work longer than 10 minutes in anything I have here. BusLogic suspects I have a bad card (it was brand new direct from them on the VAR program :-() so they are shipping me another which should be due in any day. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 10:33:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA29951 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:33:32 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29941 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:33:28 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA02892; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:34:01 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:34:01 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199507271734.NAA02892@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BT946 4.25J firmware. anyone got it working? Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <3v8hn9$1g85@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >If you get it to work, both me and BusLogic technical support would like >to know exactly what motherboard you are using and other information >about your configuration. >I have yet to get the bt946E/4.92E/4.25J to work longer than 10 minutes >in anything I have here. BusLogic suspects I have a bad card (it was >brand new direct from them on the VAR program :-() so they are shipping >me another which should be due in any day. Strange, it works just peachy in all of our Micron's, and Compaq's.. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 10:40:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA00349 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:40:27 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00342 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:40:25 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA00750; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:40:34 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507271740.KAA00750@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: BT946 4.25J firmware. anyone got it working? To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507271734.NAA02892@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Jul 27, 95 01:34:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1257 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: > > >If you get it to work, both me and BusLogic technical support would like > >to know exactly what motherboard you are using and other information > >about your configuration. > > >I have yet to get the bt946E/4.92E/4.25J to work longer than 10 minutes > >in anything I have here. BusLogic suspects I have a bad card (it was > >brand new direct from them on the VAR program :-() so they are shipping > >me another which should be due in any day. > > Strange, it works just peachy in all of our Micron's, and Compaq's.. Did you bt946 come from Micron. They have worked extensivly with BusLogic to make the boards work with there motherboard, and I think in doing so they have broken it badly for most of the rest of us. Micron systems either require a special revision D board, or the new revision E board. Micron will not support you if you have any other revision. This information came from my contact at BusLogic. Also the revision is MB version dependent, and certain Micron boards absolutly require the odd ball revision D board or forget it. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 10:42:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA00482 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:42:07 -0700 Received: from pht.com (exodus.pht.com [198.60.59.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA00474 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:42:04 -0700 Received: by pht.com id AA32484 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:40:46 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:40:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Midgley To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I just upgraded from a 2.0 snap to this version on our ftp/www site. I was mainly upgrading for stability and so we could have a perl that wouldn't fail its self-tests. machine: pci p60 w/96mb ram, 5 4gig drives (quantum, seagate) and 2 2gig drives (all scsi), buslogic scsi, 3com ethernet. kernel configs: users=128, options "NMBCLUSTERS=2048", disabled a lot of things, including bounce-buffers, ide, cdrom, iso9660. some problems now: after only about 12 hours of uptime, the system virtually locked up with messages about bt0: buffer full (the system was still pingable, great). None of the errors were logged (I should have expected that) so I don't have them verbatim. it appears that freebsd only sees 64 of the 96 mb ram on the machine. the bios self-tests on boot see it all. How do I monitor ram/swap usage on a running system? the machine had an smc card which wasn't recognized by the new system. to be more accurate, I prepped the boot drive on a machine with a 3com and then changed /etc/sysconfig's network_interfaces="ep0 lo0" to network_interfaces="ed0 lo0" that didn't work in the server itself with the smc, so I swapped the cards themselves around and switched it back. 3com support looks much better btw. Sorry if these are things which have come up--I had to drop this list because my mailbox was buried with new mail all the time. Please cc replies to me, because I may miss them (just resubscribed to the digest version today) Brad From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 10:46:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA00675 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:46:42 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00668 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:46:40 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA03019 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:47:38 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199507271747.NAA03019@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: BT946 4.25J firmware. anyone got it working? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:46:00 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507271740.KAA00750@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jul 27, 95 10:40:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 880 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Did you bt946 come from Micron. They have worked extensivly with BusLogic > to make the boards work with there motherboard, and I think in doing so > they have broken it badly for most of the rest of us. Micron systems > either require a special revision D board, or the new revision E board. > > Micron will not support you if you have any other revision. This information > came from my contact at BusLogic. Also the revision is MB version dependent, > and certain Micron boards absolutly require the odd ball revision D board > or forget it. I have used both D's and E's in both Micron Triton and non Triton systems, as well as Compaq PCI systems with zero problems. I did have a rev A board that didnt work for squat in anything. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 11:15:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA01388 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:15:10 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA01382 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:15:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA01117 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:01:18 +0100 To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: UserDB Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:01:17 +0100 Message-ID: <1115.806853677@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Quoting the O'Reilly Nutshell book on Sendmail: ``BSD 4.4 UNIX includes UDB, a user database which holds a variety of infor- mation about each user on the system, including an entry for each user which specifies where that user's mail is to be delivered'' I can't find anything of the sort on either the Lite CDROM or in FreeBSD. Is this something that isn't in Lite, only in the encumbered version? Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 11:20:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA01577 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:20:44 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA01571 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:20:43 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA07766; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:20:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199507271820.LAA07766@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:46:32 MDT." <199507271446.IAA01203@rocky.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:20:36 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Nate Williams said: > > That is why it must be compiled shared. A *bug* in the loader prior to > 2.0.5 allowed it to build shlibs with symbols that had multiple > definitions. So, the symbol which was used depended on it's position in > the build at creation time. In all honesty, this problem still exists > with the static libraries as well, but since the loader isn't aware of > multiply defined symbols because each .o file is unique it's not seen. > > The solution is to remove the dependency of libcompat in whatever > program requires libcompat and send the changes back to the maintainer. > Does mwm depend on libcompat? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 12:29:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA03329 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:29:26 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA03323 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:29:23 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01546; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:31:20 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:31:20 -0600 Message-Id: <199507271931.NAA01546@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-Reply-To: <199507271820.LAA07766@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199507271446.IAA01203@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199507271820.LAA07766@rah.star-gate.com> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty, Jr. writes: > > The solution is to remove the dependency of libcompat in whatever > > program requires libcompat and send the changes back to the maintainer. > > > > Does mwm depend on libcompat? I don't know. I don't *think* so, but I didn't compile up the sources of your version of mwm. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 12:38:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA03640 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:38:38 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA03632 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:38:36 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA13354; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:38:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199507271938.MAA13354@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:31:20 MDT." <199507271931.NAA01546@rocky.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:38:31 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Nate Williams said: > Amancio Hasty, Jr. writes: > > > The solution is to remove the dependency of libcompat in whatever > > > program requires libcompat and send the changes back to the maintainer. > > > > > > > Does mwm depend on libcompat? > > I don't know. I don't *think* so, but I didn't compile up the sources > of your version of mwm. > > > Nate Yeap, mwm from swim is compiled with libcompat. >Is this the mwm from swim-2.0? I just ran it and it seems to work OK. >If I remove libcompat.so.2.0 then it prints a helpful message telling me >it is missing. Could you run it under gdb and get a backtrace? >-- >Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Also, I tried to run it with gdb mwm and I didn't get a useful trace. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 12:58:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA04263 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:58:34 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA04255 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:58:33 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14363; Thu, 27 Jul 95 13:49:10 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507271949.AA14363@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: ld.so: ivs: libcompat.so.2.0: Undefined error: 0 To: nate@sneezy.sri.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 13:49:10 MDT Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507271931.NAA01546@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jul 27, 95 01:31:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does mwm depend on libcompat? > > I don't know. I don't *think* so, but I didn't compile up the sources > of your version of mwm. Type: ldd `which mwm` at a csh prompt. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 15:24:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA09956 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:24:13 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA09948 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:24:11 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA02524 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:23:58 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id AAA20622 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:23:57 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507272223.AAA20622@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: UserDB To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:23:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <1115.806853677@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Jul 27, 95 03:01:17 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 754 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ``BSD 4.4 UNIX includes UDB, a user database which holds a variety of infor- > mation about each user on the system, including an entry for each user > which specifies where that user's mail is to be delivered'' > > I can't find anything of the sort on either the Lite CDROM or in > FreeBSD. Is this something that isn't in Lite, only in the encumbered > version? It is a feature only used by sendmail for the moment (for rewriting usernames into First.Last locally mostly). It was meant to have a broader goal (like whois nad finger) but it is AFAIK unused. Look into op.ms/ps in sendmail's doc directory. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 15:35:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA10511 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:35:47 -0700 Received: from ds5500.cc.boun.edu.tr (ds5500.cc.boun.edu.tr [193.140.192.20]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA10499 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:35:26 -0700 Received: from busim.ee.boun.edu.tr by ds5500.cc.boun.edu.tr; (5.65/1.1.8.2/26Dec94-8.2MPM) id AA12337; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:33:30 -0400 Received: from turkuaz by busim.ee.boun.edu.tr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05363; Fri, 28 Jul 95 01:36:16 +0300 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:34:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Arman Ali Anwar X-Sender: anwar@turkuaz To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Micro channel .. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Greeting .. I'd like to know if I can install freebsd on a microchannel archieteture .. thanks in advance :-) Arman _______________________ (_______________________) ____(____Arman_Ali_Anwar____)___ (________anwar@boun.edu.tr_______) _______________________(________________________________)_______________________ ________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________ (_______) (_______) (_______) (_______) || | || || | || || | || || | || || | || . || | || Opportunity || | || | | || | || || | || /|._._ _ _.._ || | || || | || . | | || | || || | || /-|| | ) )(_|| ) || | ||Often Presents|| | || (_) |_. / | || | || || | || || | || || | || || | || || | || . . || | || Itself || | || | || | || || | || /|| || | || || | || |_c || | || || | || /-||| || | ||in the form of|| | || (_) || | || || | || || | || || | || || | || || | || . || | || VERY HARD || | || . | || | || || | || /|._ _.._ || | || || | || o| | || | || || | || /-|| )(_|_)(_|| || | || WORK !!! || | || / / | || | || ||_|_|| ||_|_|| ||_|_|| ||_|_|| (_______)________________(_______)____________(_______)________________(_______) ________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 15:44:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA11060 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:44:01 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11054 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:43:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA02649; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:39:52 -0700 To: Arman Ali Anwar cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Micro channel .. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:34:13 PDT." Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:39:52 -0700 Message-ID: <2647.806884792@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Greeting .. > > I'd like to know if I can install freebsd on a microchannel archieteture .. > > thanks in advance :-) > > Arman Sorry, you cannot.. P.S. That signature is obscene!! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 16:02:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA11829 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:02:12 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA11823 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:02:11 -0700 Received: by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33(web)-OV4) id QAA08193; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:02:09 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:02:09 -0700 From: jmacd@uclink.berkeley.edu (Joshua Peck Macdonald) Message-Id: <199507272302.QAA08193@uclink.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: unionfs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk does unionfs work? I just tried mounting a CD and union mounting another filesystem on top of it, following the directions in the man page for mount_union. I mounted /dev/cd0a on /usr/src and then did mount -t union /usr/obj /usr/src and now df reports: /dev/sd1a 34111 12282 19100 39% / /dev/sd1s2f 306321 134405 147410 48% /home /dev/sd1s2e 297423 108517 165112 40% /usr /dev/sd0s4e 304618 227217 62170 79% /usr/local /dev/sd0s4a 15034 1851 12431 13% /mnt procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc /dev/cd0a 613384 613384 0 100% /usr/src /usr/obj 910807 721901 165112 81% /usr/src and there is nothing showing in /usr/src, nor can I figure out how to umount it either. because if I change directories to /usr/src it says I'm in /usr/obj and umount /usr/src says /usr/obj isn't mounted. -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 16:09:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA12286 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:09:57 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12280 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:09:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA02843; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:08:45 -0700 To: Paco Rosich cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: spanish keymap In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:24:30 +0200." <199507271624.SAA01767@modico.eleinf.uv.es> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:08:45 -0700 Message-ID: <2841.806886525@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've seen that 2.0.5 still lacks a spanish syscons keymap > so I'm including below the keymap I use in 1.1.5. Added - thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 16:32:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA13416 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:32:26 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13397 ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:32:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA02999; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:31:31 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: announce@freebsd.org Subject: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:31:31 -0700 Message-ID: <2997.806887891@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Now available on freefall and ftp.freebsd.org: 2.1.0-950726-SNAP This supercedes the previous snap, 2.0.5-950622-SNAP. Hopefully the next snap or two will also see the introduction of a new upgrade-in-place procedure, assuming that I can finish writing it in time. I'll also offer a "retrofit kit" for 2.0.5 which will supply the appropriate files for allowing the upgrade procedure in 2.1 to operate with it. This mainly involves keeping extra information around about which files come with the release or SNAP so that the upgrade knows what to preserve and what can be simply replaced. This feature is NOT in this snapshot, I'm just giving you a preview of what's coming.. Please let me know how this snap works for you, either good or bad! Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 16:51:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA14165 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:51:59 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA14152 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:51:56 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA23688; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:51:33 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:51:32 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.05R reboot hangs In-Reply-To: <199506251706.TAA18260@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 25 Jun 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > As Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > > > Hhhmm. I'm seeing this too with one of my systems: > > > > I type sync ; reboot and after saying 'rebooting' it just hangs. > > FYI, Rod, there's another report of this kind of things in Usenet > right now. I think it's also been an ASUS board, but perhaps you wish > to jump in there yourself. I know I'm joining in *really* late (just got back from a month's vacation), but someone mentioned that this problem seems to be associated with "green" CPU's. I run three "non-green" Intel CPU's and one power-saving "green" AMD CPU (all are 486's). Only the AMD machine has the hung reboot problem. Even the fallback to the "keyboard BIOS reset" (?) fails. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 16:52:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA14329 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:52:52 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA14318 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:52:37 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55362>; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:51:32 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01236; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:36:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199507270936.LAA01236@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Ken Wong cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:06:43 +0200." <199507261006.GAA00245@fathergoose.net6c.io.org> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:36:41 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Do we have mgetty yet? if we do can you tell me where it is. cd /usr/ports echo */*getty* comms/mgetty+sendfax distfiles/mgetty+sendfax-0.22.tar.gz Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 17:01:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA14810 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:01:41 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA14803 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:01:39 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id RAA25358; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:01:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:01:38 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199507280001.RAA25358@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@Freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@Freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!brian From: brian@news.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: iijppp & LQR requests Date: 26 Jul 1995 18:18:56 GMT Organization: None Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3v60ug$6cd@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: rancid.coverform.net X-NNTP-Posting-Host: awfulhak.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I seem to have bumped into a problem with iijppp & its LQR requests - I start 'ppp -auto gate' where gate is my network provider. ppp says "thank you very much" and hangs around waiting for something exciting to happen. Something exciting happens, ppp logs on, establishes the link and eventually exciting things stop happening and it drops the link. This is what we _DO_ want. The problem however is (I think!) that LcpLayerDown() doesn't call StopLqr(). 50 seconds later (1 LQR / 10 secs, 5 without response = timeout) ppp gives up and exits. Some time later, something exciting happens, but it doesn't stay exciting for very long 'cos ppp isn't playing any more. I've tried sticking the line StopLqr( LQM_LQR ); into LcpLayerDown() after the StopAllTimers line. It seems to make ppp happy. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 17:13:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA15123 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:13:33 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA15117 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:13:32 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA10337; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:12:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA00662; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:14:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199507280014.RAA00662@corbin.Root.COM> To: jmacd@uclink.berkeley.edu (Joshua Peck Macdonald) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: unionfs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 95 16:02:09 PDT." <199507272302.QAA08193@uclink.berkeley.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:14:09 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >does unionfs work? Sorry, it is currently very broken. Fixing it is definately a goal for FreeBSD 2.2, however. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 17:22:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA15344 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:22:44 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA15337 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:22:36 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA01775; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:18:14 +1000 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:18:14 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507280018.KAA01775@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jmacd@uclink.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: unionfs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >does unionfs work? Nope. >I just tried mounting a CD and union mounting another filesystem >on top of it, following the directions in the man page for mount_union. >I mounted /dev/cd0a on /usr/src and then did >mount -t union /usr/obj /usr/src and now df reports: >... >/usr/obj 910807 721901 165112 81% /usr/src >and there is nothing showing in /usr/src, nor can I figure out how readdir() doesn't work for the lkm'ed version, so ls won't show anything, but at files in at least the top level directory can be opened if you know their name. readdir() works in the kernel version, but making /usr/src after following the directions in the man page hung after a few seconds when I tried it a few months ago. >to umount it either. because if I change directories to /usr/src >it says I'm in /usr/obj and umount /usr/src says /usr/obj isn't >mounted. This may be correct. The semantics of union mounts are confusing at first. Unmount seemed to work when I tried it. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 17:31:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA15704 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:31:11 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA15698 ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:31:08 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA16483; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:37:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:37:28 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199507280037.RAA16483@lightlink.satcom.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! Cc: announce@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Could anybody tell me what is new on 2.1, which 2.0.5 and 2.0 doesn't have? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 17:33:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA15935 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:33:47 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA15920 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:33:37 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA23799; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:31:16 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:31:15 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Jeff Aitken cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-Reply-To: <199506231648.MAA06550@husky.cslab.vt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Jun 1995, Jeff Aitken wrote: > > As has been discussed in the newsgroups lately, a snazzy kernel > configuration & compilation utility would be very nice. I just spoke > with Jordan about it, and he wasn't aware of anyone working on such a > beast. I've volunteered to at least take a crack at it, so if anyone's > already started on the same project, let me know and I'll be glad to > help. Again, I'm joining in late... after tk4.0 was released and once a friend of mine lent me his Tcl/Tk reference book, I decided that a kernel config utility would be a nice "test project" to work on. I haven't started it yet, but here are some thoughts. First and foremost, the util should consult some sort of database file that lists available options, valid argument lists and dependencies. This will allow other people to write different front- ends. I would like to try my hand at Tcl/Tk programming, so that would make it an X application. Someone else could try writing one using libdialog and a third person could put together a Web/CGI interface. That last one intrigues me... put up a "FreeBSD Kernel Drive-Thru" page where you select config options via a forms interface, then after some waiting, a new kernel is presented to you for downloading. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 17:55:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA16782 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:55:14 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA16772 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:55:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA01830 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:50:09 +0100 To: Brian Tao cc: Jeff Aitken , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:31:15 +0800." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1827.806892607.1@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:50:08 +0100 Message-ID: <1828.806892608@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , Brian Tao writes: > First and foremost, the util should consult some sort of database >file that lists available options, valid argument lists and >dependencies. This will allow other people to write different front- >ends. I would like to try my hand at Tcl/Tk programming, so that >would make it an X application. Someone else could try writing one >using libdialog and a third person could put together a Web/CGI >interface. That last one intrigues me... put up a "FreeBSD Kernel >Drive-Thru" page where you select config options via a forms >interface, then after some waiting, a new kernel is presented to you >for downloading. Looks good to me, but the question has to be WHERE ON EARTH DO YOU GET THE COMPILE SERVER FROM? I don't think we have anywhere near the resources available currently to host such a project, nice though it may be :-( I've already stated that I'm interested in doing a libdialog based one, and from my past experience with libdialog, I have a sneaky suspicion that I'll rewrite it along the way :-( Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 17:55:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA16810 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:55:20 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA16788 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:55:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA01840 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:51:09 +0100 To: Brian Tao cc: Jeff Aitken , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:31:15 +0800." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1837.806892666.1@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:51:06 +0100 Message-ID: <1838.806892666@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , Brian Tao writes: > First and foremost, the util should consult some sort of database >file that lists available options, valid argument lists and >dependencies. This will allow other people to write different front- >ends. I would like to try my hand at Tcl/Tk programming, so that >would make it an X application. Someone else could try writing one >using libdialog and a third person could put together a Web/CGI >interface. That last one intrigues me... put up a "FreeBSD Kernel >Drive-Thru" page where you select config options via a forms >interface, then after some waiting, a new kernel is presented to you >for downloading. P.S. Sudden after-thought - it'd have to be platform independant also... i.e. not be i386-centric in the files it generates... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 17:57:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA16972 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:57:10 -0700 Received: from pongo.cs.wisc.edu (pongo.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.63.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA16966 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:57:08 -0700 Received: (from jcargill@localhost) by pongo.cs.wisc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA08564; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:57:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:57:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199507280057.TAA08564@pongo.cs.wisc.edu> From: Jonathan Cargille To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! In-Reply-To: <2997.806887891@time.cdrom.com> References: <2997.806887891@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: Now available on freefall and ftp.freebsd.org: 2.1.0-950726-SNAP This supercedes the previous snap, 2.0.5-950622-SNAP. This SNAP naming seems to be getting a bit inconsistent; if 2.0.5-950622-SNAP was a "post-2.0.5" snapshot, shouldn't 2.1.0-950726-SNAP be a "post-2.1" snapshot? Or is it just me? ;-) Or did I sleep through the 2.1 release? ;-) Jon p.s. The upgrade-in-place stuff sounds awesome... p.p.s. Yes, I know that consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 18:23:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA17723 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:23:44 -0700 Received: from forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.33.75]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA17717 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:23:43 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA04453; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:23:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:23:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199507280123.SAA04453@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: jcargill@cs.wisc.edu CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507280057.TAA08564@pongo.cs.wisc.edu> (message from Jonathan Cargille on Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:57:01 -0500) Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * This SNAP naming seems to be getting a bit inconsistent; if * 2.0.5-950622-SNAP was a "post-2.0.5" snapshot, shouldn't * 2.1.0-950726-SNAP be a "post-2.1" snapshot? For snapshots, we are going to use the "next" version number from now on. This is because we now have two development branches, 2.2 (aka -current) and 2.1 (aka -stable). The naming change was needed to make sure people can easily see which branch the snapshot is coming from. * Or is it just me? ;-) Or did I sleep through the 2.1 release? ;-) As far as I can tell, 2.1 is not released yet. But who knows, I may have slept throught it too. ;> Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 18:44:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA18358 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:44:29 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA18347 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:44:19 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA23888; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:43:49 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:43:49 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Gary Palmer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-Reply-To: <1838.806892666@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > > P.S. Sudden after-thought - it'd have to be platform independant also... > i.e. not be i386-centric in the files it generates... FreeBSD is available on other platforms? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 18:47:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA18518 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:47:39 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA18455 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:47:21 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA23900; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:46:35 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:46:34 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Gary Palmer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-Reply-To: <1828.806892608@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > > Looks good to me, but the question has to be WHERE ON EARTH DO YOU GET > THE COMPILE SERVER FROM? I don't think we have anywhere near the > resources available currently to host such a project, nice though > it may be :-( Well, I've got four 486's here that aren't doing much at the moment (two of our postdocs are away on a work term, and a grad student is back in Toronto).... ;-) I think I might be able to sneak a few CPU cycles for this task, even if only for a few days just to see how it goes. :) > I've already stated that I'm interested in doing a libdialog based one, > and from my past experience with libdialog, I have a sneaky suspicion that > I'll rewrite it along the way :-( If we can standardize on a "kernel config config", that will take us a long way towards a consistent set of utilities for kernel setup. The front-end interfaces can come later. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 18:50:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA18806 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:50:55 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA18800 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:50:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA04945; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:49:58 -0700 To: Jonathan Cargille cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:57:01 CDT." <199507280057.TAA08564@pongo.cs.wisc.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:49:57 -0700 Message-ID: <4942.806896197@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > This supercedes the previous snap, 2.0.5-950622-SNAP. > > This SNAP naming seems to be getting a bit inconsistent; if > 2.0.5-950622-SNAP was a "post-2.0.5" snapshot, shouldn't > 2.1.0-950726-SNAP be a "post-2.1" snapshot? Yes, it should. I decided to rename the SNAP process on the fly though.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 18:53:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA18953 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:53:59 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA18947 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:53:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA04963; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:51:11 -0700 To: Gary Palmer cc: Brian Tao , Jeff Aitken , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:51:06 BST." <1838.806892666@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:51:11 -0700 Message-ID: <4961.806896271@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > P.S. Sudden after-thought - it'd have to be platform independant also... > i.e. not be i386-centric in the files it generates... Sure, but I'd still settle for an i386-centric one for now.. Better an imperfect solution that works now rather than a perfect one that works never.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 18:56:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA19173 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:56:45 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA19166 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:56:41 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:56:27 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:56:31 -0500 To: Brian Tao From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: >> >> P.S. Sudden after-thought - it'd have to be platform independant also... >> i.e. not be i386-centric in the files it generates... > > FreeBSD is available on other platforms? Not today :-( Maybe next .... (sometime) But we should not be building any new mechanisms that are incompatible with that goal. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 18:57:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA19239 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:57:06 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA19233 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:57:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA05016; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:56:05 -0700 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:50:36 CDT." Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:56:04 -0700 Message-ID: <5014.806896564@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > So, how does 2.1-SNAP compare to the -STABLE code I "sup"ed last night? Should be identical, modulo anything not installed by `make world' like the stuff in /etc. > Should I follow -STABLE daily or simply wait for 2.1-SNAP's? IOW, will the Up to you, really! > SNAP releases match the tree as sup'ed at some particular time and can I > expect the -STABLE tree to remain consistent with itself? (Something that > is NOT true of -CURRENT) Yes, I think.. I'm really not sure what you mean here though! > Will we expect to see 2.2-SNAP's before 2.1 is released? Yes, the minute that enough "new" stuff in 2.2 exists to warrant a snap along that branch. I actually had a 2.2 snap built here but I killed it after realizing that there really wasn't enough difference between 2.1 and 2.2 right now to justify it. That may change. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 19:03:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA19589 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:03:31 -0700 Received: from white.dogwood.com (white.dogwood.com [140.174.96.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA19570 ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:03:19 -0700 Received: (from dave@localhost) by white.dogwood.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA29573; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:02:47 -0700 From: Dave Cornejo Message-Id: <199507280202.TAA29573@white.dogwood.com> Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! To: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net (Imperial Irrigation District) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, announce@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507280037.RAA16483@lightlink.satcom.net> from "Imperial Irrigation District" at Jul 27, 95 05:37:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 544 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Imperial Irrigation District wrote: > Could anybody tell me what is new on 2.1, which 2.0.5 and 2.0 doesn't > have? Yeah, it's got a '1' instead of a '0.5' - It has fewer digits, so it's probably not as good. Personally, I'm holding out for 2.1.1 or 2.1.1.5, which Jordan will probably have up for FTP before most of us have finished FTP'ing 2.1. So when can we expect 2.2? -- Dave Cornejo There is nothing so subtle Dogwood Media as the obvious Fremont, California From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 19:17:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA20111 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:17:02 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA20099 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:16:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA05087; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:15:20 -0700 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: Brian Tao , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:56:31 CDT." Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:15:20 -0700 Message-ID: <5085.806897720@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Not today :-( Maybe next .... (sometime) > But we should not be building any new mechanisms that are incompatible with > that goal. I'm not sure that we'd even know HOW, so let's not get too enamoured of any hypothetical interfaces here.. It's long been felt that config has to die, and perhaps there will be enough push to do so when FreeBSD adopts its first non-i386 platform port. I still think that a config front-end utility, i386-centric or not, would be a Good Thing. After all, we're still waiting to see Richard's mythical Makefile reorg which seems to have died due to an over-ambitious mandate by the author.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 19:17:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA20190 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:17:35 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA20184 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:17:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA05098; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:16:16 -0700 To: Dave Cornejo cc: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net (Imperial Irrigation District), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:02:46 PDT." <199507280202.TAA29573@white.dogwood.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:16:16 -0700 Message-ID: <5096.806897776@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yeah, it's got a '1' instead of a '0.5' - It has fewer digits, so it's > probably not as good. Personally, I'm holding out for 2.1.1 or > 2.1.1.5, which Jordan will probably have up for FTP before most of us > have finished FTP'ing 2.1. Ooh. Feeling a little cynical these days, Dave? :-) > So when can we expect 2.2? Dunno.. December? Please, no more follow-ups to announce please! Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 19:27:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA20510 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:27:23 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA20504 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:27:18 -0700 Received: from unix.nike.efn.org (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA22132; Thu, 27 Jul 95 19:25:10 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:25:41 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@unix.nike.efn.org To: Gary Palmer Cc: Brian Tao , Jeff Aitken , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-Reply-To: <1828.806892608@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > In message , Brian Tao writes: > > First and foremost, the util should consult some sort of database > >file that lists available options, valid argument lists and > >dependencies. This will allow other people to write different front- > >ends. I would like to try my hand at Tcl/Tk programming, so that > >would make it an X application. Someone else could try writing one > >using libdialog and a third person could put together a Web/CGI > >interface. That last one intrigues me... put up a "FreeBSD Kernel > >Drive-Thru" page where you select config options via a forms > >interface, then after some waiting, a new kernel is presented to you > >for downloading. > > Looks good to me, but the question has to be WHERE ON EARTH DO YOU GET > THE COMPILE SERVER FROM? I don't think we have anywhere near the > resources available currently to host such a project, nice though > it may be :-( how about having it mailed? that way you get the kernel and they don't have to wait around... sure it may take a while... but just dedicate a 486/33 and run to kernel compiles at once (to eliminate dead time between .c loads)... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 20:12:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA23929 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:12:53 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA23922 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:12:50 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA01284 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:58:08 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA17793; 27 Jul 95 21:57:06 CDT (Thu) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA17784 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:57:06 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:57:06 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507280257.VAA17784@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers Path: peter From: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Plan9 - a salutory tale Organization: Taronga Park BBS Message-ID: References: <9507260355.AA11554@gdwest.gd.com> <9507261814.AA08617@plokta.eng.sun.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:57:03 GMT In article <9507261814.AA08617@plokta.eng.sun.com>, Bryan O'Sullivan wrote: >As to whether there is anything FreeBSD can learn from Plan 9, I don't >think so. I disagree. Oh, not in the user interface model, but in the file system and process model. It takes the UNIX "everything is a file" a logical evolutionary step forward. As for the UI... well, you can run "sam" and "9term" and "9wm" and get most of it. I kind of like "sam", though it needs better key bindings. 9term and 9wm are for the birds. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 20:18:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA24220 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:18:58 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA24214 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:18:54 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA02225; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:19:14 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507280319.UAA02225@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! To: jcargill@cs.wisc.edu (Jonathan Cargille) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507280057.TAA08564@pongo.cs.wisc.edu> from "Jonathan Cargille" at Jul 27, 95 07:57:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2450 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > Now available on freefall and ftp.freebsd.org: 2.1.0-950726-SNAP > > This supercedes the previous snap, 2.0.5-950622-SNAP. > > This SNAP naming seems to be getting a bit inconsistent; if > 2.0.5-950622-SNAP was a "post-2.0.5" snapshot, shouldn't > 2.1.0-950726-SNAP be a "post-2.1" snapshot? I currently have a proposal before Jordan that should clear this up once and for all, the way it is done now causes inconsistencies like this as that whole string was being provided on the command line, the proposal changes that so only the date is provided, the other parts come from the src tree of the relavent branch. Names (if Jordan agrees with the proposal) will become: X.Y-BRANCH: These are -current versions of the branch, and BRANCH currently has the values ``STABLE'' or ``CURRENT''. X.Y-BRANCH-SNAPMMDDYY: This is a snap shot on MMDDYY of one of the branches, it is turned on by a release engineering during snap shot building. Only the MMDDYY part is provided (and the change with use "`date`" to get that.) X.Y-RELEASE: This is a release, this requires a commit to build a proper release src tree so that things built with that src tree also say ``RELEASE''. This will appear briefly at the end of a -stable branch as the release is merged and such before -STABLE rolls up to the next version and all the numbers get bumped by the person doing the cvs ops such as tree tagging. [Humm.. perhaps the branch should be called ``STABALIZING'' :-)] The current tools put in place even allow us to continue to bug fix things in old releases (ie change to 2.1-BUGFIX-A) after a release is pressed and have it clearly ear marked as such. This is something we have never supported in the past, and may be looked at for the future, but the tools and mechanisms for doing it are in place, now it is a matter of resources (both man power and equipment) to make it possible. > Or is it just me? ;-) Or did I sleep through the 2.1 release? ;-) Well, -current is 2.2 now, and in the past that meant 2.1 was long gone. You sleep through a major shuffling of a few things right after 2.0.5, like the addition of a stable branch for doing the 2.1 work in, the fact that current will be releases as 2.2 when it is ready, etc. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 20:49:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA25052 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:49:05 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA25044 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:49:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA05389; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:48:01 -0700 To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:57:06 CDT." <199507280257.VAA17784@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:48:00 -0700 Message-ID: <5387.806903280@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I disagree. Oh, not in the user interface model, but in the file system > and process model. It takes the UNIX "everything is a file" a logical > evolutionary step forward. Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought so).. I don't think I like plan9 very much, and its window system seems to take the worst shortcomings of X a step further as well. Foo! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 21:08:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA25872 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:08:14 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA25866 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:08:12 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA19040; Thu, 27 Jul 95 22:05:57 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA08100; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 22:05:49 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 22:05:49 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9507280405.AA08100@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: gurney_j@efn.org Cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw, jaitken@husky.cs.vt.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (message from John-Mark Gurney on Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:25:41 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk And also provide some way to email the generated kernel config file too ... to get users going making kernels on their *own* systems. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA I went to court for a parking ticket. I pleaded insanity. I said, "Your honor, why would anyone in their right mind park in the passing lane?" -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 21:13:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA26177 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:13:21 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA26171 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:13:19 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id VAA09225 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:13:17 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:13:07 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:13:11 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Plan9 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I don't think I like plan9 very much, and its window system seems >to take the worst shortcomings of X a step further as well. Foo! I never got it to load the floppies. In the middle of disk2, it would say unexpected EOF. It acts like the output catches up with the input and the empty pipe hoses the transfer. I rechecked the files and they are correct. I wonder if that implies some hardware problem that is going to bite me on FreeBSD also? ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 21:35:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA26548 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:35:07 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA26528 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:35:03 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA08807; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:19:17 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507280449.OAA08807@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:19:16 +0930 (CST) Cc: jaitken@husky.cs.vt.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Jul 28, 95 08:31:15 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1805 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao stands accused of saying: > > As has been discussed in the newsgroups lately, a snazzy kernel > > configuration & compilation utility would be very nice. I just spoke > > with Jordan about it, and he wasn't aware of anyone working on such a > > beast. I've volunteered to at least take a crack at it, so if anyone's > > already started on the same project, let me know and I'll be glad to > > help. I've been tinkering with the idea off and on for a while; the real stress lies in designing the syntax for the options/devices/etc definition file, so that it can be parsed easily and yet be straightforward for new entries to be added. > Again, I'm joining in late... after tk4.0 was released and once a > friend of mine lent me his Tcl/Tk reference book, I decided that a > kernel config utility would be a nice "test project" to work on. I > haven't started it yet, but here are some thoughts. To do this 'right' will actually be fairly meaty project; you may want to use something like XF as a dialog designer to help your visualisation out. (This sort of thing requires multiple toplevels, which XF doesn't do so well, so you can't use it as a designer) Regardless, count me in as an interested party. I'd also be interested to know if there was much interest in a format/slice/partition/newfs/mount tool with a 'spiffy' frontend... > Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 23:12:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA27773 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:12:05 -0700 Received: from staff.cs.su.OZ.AU (staff.cs.su.OZ.AU [129.78.8.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA27767 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:11:59 -0700 Received: from osix.osix.oz.au by staff.cs.su.OZ.AU (mail from daemon for hackers@FreeBSD.Org) with MHSnet; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:11:40 +1000 Received: from blain.osix.oz.au by osix.osix.oz.au (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03.OSIX.001) id AA25066; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:52:37 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by blain.osix.oz.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA24651; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:52:36 +1000 From: Peter May Message-Id: <199507272352.JAA24651@blain.osix.oz.au> Subject: Re: Micro channel .. To: anwar@boun.edu.tr (Arman Ali Anwar) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 9:52:36 WET Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.Org In-Reply-To: ; from "Arman Ali Anwar" at Jul 28, 95 02:34:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL17] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk Arman Ali Anwar spoke thus: > Greeting .. > I'd like to know if I can install freebsd on a microchannel archieteture .. Real Soon Now ... watch this space. Regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------->>>>> Peter May OSIX Pty Ltd Director Level 1, 261-263 Pacific Highway Technical Services North Sydney. NSW. Australia. 2060. Home: +61-2-418-7656 Internet: peter@osix.oz.au Work: +61-2-922-3999 Fax: +61-2-922-3314 >>>> PGP Public key available upon request <<<< ---------------------------------------------------------------->>>>> From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 27 23:16:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA27933 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:16:23 -0700 Received: from risc6.unisa.ac.za (risc6.unisa.ac.za [163.200.97.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA27875 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:15:44 -0700 Received: by risc6.unisa.ac.za (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA24402; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:13:54 +0200 From: radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Message-Id: <9507280613.AA24402@risc6.unisa.ac.za> Subject: Configuring a router - advice needed To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:13:54 +0200 (USAST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 666 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk May be that this is not a right question for this group, but I have a FreeBSD system and a router on my site. As I am confused with so many RFCs, I'll appreciate it if somebody could help me. I have a router with 3 WAN ports which I want to connect to 4 different networks. I am using the 4-th port as a connection to my provider. Can I place all 3 ports on the same subnet, created for the WANs only as a part of my class C address? E.G. WAN My site Remote site 1 x.x.x.1 x.x.x.2 2 x.x.x.3 x.x.x.4 3 x.x.x.5 x.x.x.6 Or, is it better to force the remote side subnetting and use 3 different networks IPs? Regards, Alex radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 02:04:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA02130 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:04:40 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA02099 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:03:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA04113; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:58:22 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:58:22 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199507280858.KAA04113@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@rah.stargate.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: C source for Rockwell ADPCM decompression available Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [I hope this is of interest to hackers] After a few days of work, I managed to make an initial port to C of the Rockwell conversion routines from their ADPCM format to Ulaw and other formats. My work is based on the sources publicly released from Rockwell earlier this year, and is intended to help those willing to use Rockwell-based voice modems in a Unix environment. The program, as it stands, has lot of limitations WRT the original code. Besides, I might have introduced some bugs in the translation process. Still, better than nothing... For those interested, the code is available from ftp://ftp.iet.unipi.it/~pub/rockwell/d2.c the original source from rockwell (d.asm) is in the same directory; I also recommend that you have a look at the Rockwell page, http://www.nb.rockwell.com/ref/adpcm.html Any feedback on my code is more than welcome. I'd be delighted if someone from Rockwell could have a look at the code. In particular, I am wondering why the same file sounds much better when played on the modem than when it is converted with either my program or the original DMAIN.EXE from rockwell. Cheers Luigi -- ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 02:06:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA02266 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:06:01 -0700 Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA02259 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:05:57 -0700 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA03256; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:06:22 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:06:18 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199507280001.RAA25358@violet.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I seem to have bumped into a problem with iijppp & its LQR requests - > > I start 'ppp -auto gate' where gate is my network provider. ppp says > "thank you very much" and hangs around waiting for something exciting to > happen. Something exciting happens, ppp logs on, establishes the link and > eventually exciting things stop happening and it drops the link. > > This is what we _DO_ want. > The problem however is (I think!) that LcpLayerDown() doesn't call StopLqr(). > > 50 seconds later (1 LQR / 10 secs, 5 without response = timeout) ppp gives > up and exits. > > Some time later, something exciting happens, but it doesn't stay exciting for > very long 'cos ppp isn't playing any more. > > > I've tried sticking the line > > StopLqr( LQM_LQR ); > > into LcpLayerDown() after the StopAllTimers line. It seems to make ppp happy. I use the following configuration to connect to Demon using iijppp's autodial features: default: set device /dev/cua02 set speed 115200 disable lqr deny lqr set dial "ABORT BUSY ABORT NO\\sCARRIER TIMEOUT 5 \"\" AT OK-AT-OK \\dATDT\\T T IMEOUT 40 CONNECT" demon: set phone 01813384848 set login "TIMEOUT 15 login:-\\r-login: mylogin word: mypasswd ocol: PPP" set timeout 120 set ifaddr 158.152.30.118 158.152.1.222 add 0 0 158.152.1.222 -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 02:13:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA02599 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:13:42 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA02593 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:13:31 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA24281; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:11:56 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:11:52 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-Reply-To: <199507280449.OAA08807@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Michael Smith wrote: > > I've been tinkering with the idea off and on for a while; the real > stress lies in designing the syntax for the options/devices/etc > definition file, so that it can be parsed easily and yet be > straightforward for new entries to be added. That's was one of the things I was wrestling with in my mind on the flight over to Taiwan from Frisco (almost 12 hours). Using the LINT config as a starting point, you find the following keyword breakdown: 1 config 1 ident 1 machine 1 maxusers 1 tape 3 cpu 6 disk 20 pseudo-device 23 controller 54 device 67 options The single-occurence keywords along with "cpu" can be easily answered by the user. Most of the remaining keywords can be configured with a simple binary decision on the part of the user (e.g., a checkbox or a "Yes/No" question). Some take additional arguments (IRQ setting, port address, drive number, etc.). Others are only conditionally relevant (e.g., device "sc0" and "vt0" cannot be active in the same kernel). To make things easier for the user, related keywords should be grouped together (e.g., all NIC's in one place, all soundcards in another section, etc.). So, each line to be output into the kernel config file must be associated with a category name, a list of arguments and parameters, a format string (used to output a config file line), a dependency list, and a description field. The dependency list sounds hard to make foolproof... I'd settle for a text warning and entrusting the user to do the right thing. A simple example (colon-delimited fields): general:options \"CHILD_MAX=%d\":Default maximum number of processes The util sees "options \"CHILD_MAX=%d\"" and knows that it needs an integer supplied by the user. That value is substituted for %d and the resulting string output to the config file. This and other options labelled "general" will be presented on one section/page of the config util. There ought to be more extensive guidelines than the short comments associated with each option, and options that take more than one parameter ought to have additional text telling the user what each value means. This is a start, at least. Implementation details can be ironed out once someone sits down and starts writing some code to parse the config config. > To do this 'right' will actually be fairly meaty project; you may want to > use something like XF as a dialog designer to help your visualisation out. > (This sort of thing requires multiple toplevels, which XF doesn't do so > well, so you can't use it as a designer) I don't think XF has been updated for Tk4.0, has it? I'm content at the moment with typing in commands at the wish prompt and seeing things pop up in the window. :) exmh 1.6.1 is running here now, and I'll bet the equivalent written in Motif will be three times the size, take up three times as much memory and run one-third as fast. ;-) > Regardless, count me in as an interested party. I'd also be interested > to know if there was much interest in a format/slice/partition/newfs/mount > tool with a 'spiffy' frontend... That's another area I wanted to tackle. In fact, if add in enough utils to twiddle with most of the files in /etc, you'll end up with a SMIT-like utility for FreeBSD, which would be a Good Thing when it comes to getting newbies up and running. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 02:15:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA02691 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:15:42 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA02685 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:15:35 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA24293; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:14:22 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:14:21 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > Not today :-( Maybe next .... (sometime) > But we should not be building any new mechanisms that are incompatible with > that goal. I don't see anything in the current model that inherently shuts the door on non-Intel ports. Most of the stuff appears as either an "option" or a "device", and those need to be specified no matter which platform you choose to compile for. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 03:02:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA04250 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 03:02:32 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA04243 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 03:02:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA07074 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:32:17 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: "World" LKM? Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:32:17 -0700 Message-ID: <7072.806923937@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some time ago (Terry? You remember?) some folks in Japan posted something about their "world" LKM for NetBSD. Does anyone know the current status of this and where it might be obtained from? Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 04:11:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA05400 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:11:22 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA05390 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:11:21 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199507281111.EAA05390@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw, jaitken@husky.cs.vt.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1838.806892666@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Jul 28, 95 01:51:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1438 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In message , Brian Tao writes: > > First and foremost, the util should consult some sort of database > >file that lists available options, valid argument lists and > >dependencies. This will allow other people to write different front- > >ends. I would like to try my hand at Tcl/Tk programming, so that > >would make it an X application. Someone else could try writing one > >using libdialog and a third person could put together a Web/CGI > >interface. That last one intrigues me... put up a "FreeBSD Kernel > >Drive-Thru" page where you select config options via a forms > >interface, then after some waiting, a new kernel is presented to you > >for downloading. > > P.S. Sudden after-thought - it'd have to be platform independant also... > i.e. not be i386-centric in the files it generates... > > Gary > Hi, At one time I had crude one for 1.X that was in the contrib directory. I've been slowly re-working it here to add that database and such. How about a pre-processer that takes a LINT config file and generates a basic input file that can be used as input. Gary (The Other One) -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 05:17:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA07059 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 05:17:55 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA07046 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 05:17:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA06946 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:23:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199507281223.IAA06946@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:48:00 PDT." <5387.806903280@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:23:25 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you > say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought > so).. You are mistaken. Everthing is *not* an ioctl. It instead resembles something like the proc filesystem. Do you think *that* is an abortion? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 05:21:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA07322 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 05:21:26 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA07316 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 05:21:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA00392 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:19:52 +0100 To: Brian Tao cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:43:49 +0800." Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:19:51 +0100 Message-ID: <390.806933991@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , Brian Tao writes: > FreeBSD is available on other platforms? Work is under way on other platforms, yes. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 05:43:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA07958 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 05:43:59 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA07951 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 05:43:56 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA04577 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:17:43 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA27844; 28 Jul 95 07:12:48 CDT (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA27841; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:12:48 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507281212.HAA27841@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:12:47 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5387.806903280@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 27, 95 08:48:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 433 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I disagree. Oh, not in the user interface model, but in the file system > > and process model. It takes the UNIX "everything is a file" a logical > > evolutionary step forward. > Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you > say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought > so).. Plan 9 doesn't have IOCTL at all. Just about everything is done with open, close, read, and write. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 06:14:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA08778 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 06:14:33 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA08760 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 06:14:21 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55357>; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:13:09 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03190; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:23:20 +0200 Message-Id: <199507280223.EAA03190@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: Jeff Aitken , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:31:15 +0200." Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:23:19 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I decided that a > kernel config utility would be a nice "test project" to work on. I > haven't started it yet, but here are some thoughts. Just a place holding reminder that I have a sys/Makefile combo that it can feed, does obj trees & such, lots of work developing it, lots of features, free toi whoevere wants to try it, I should get it in the tree sometime, but its 4.20 AM again :-( Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 06:16:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA08882 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 06:16:16 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA08860 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 06:16:03 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55369>; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:13:58 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03116; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:09:00 +0200 Message-Id: <199507280209.EAA03116@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: "Michael C. Newell" , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jul 1995 20:40:43 +0200." <199507261840.LAA05514@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:09:00 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > majordomo@star-gate.com was Majordomo an `out of the box' port for you ? we should have it in ports :-) Julian S jhs@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 07:24:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA10550 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:24:24 -0700 Received: from sass165.sandia.gov (sass165.sandia.gov [132.175.109.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA10544 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:24:22 -0700 Received: from sargon.mdl.sandia.gov (sargon.mdl.sandia.gov [134.253.20.128]) by sass165.sandia.gov (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA25071 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:31:46 -0600 Received: (aflundi@localhost) by sargon.mdl.sandia.gov (8.6.10) id IAA22384 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:24:22 -0600 Message-Id: <199507281424.IAA22384@sargon.mdl.sandia.gov> From: aflundi@sandia.gov (Alan F Lundin) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:24:22 -0600 In-Reply-To: Robert Withrow "" (Jul 28, 8:23am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lessons learned from Plan9 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Jul 28, 8:23am, Robert Withrow wrote: > > > Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you > > say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought > > so).. > > You are mistaken. Everthing is *not* an ioctl. It instead resembles > something like the proc filesystem. Do you think *that* is an > abortion? I have to agree with Peter and Robert here. It seems to me to be awfully cool to do # echo format > /dev/sd0/crtl to format a disk (and the disk can even be remote)! --alan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 07:34:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA11104 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:34:44 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA11094 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:34:37 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:34:31 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:34:32 -0500 To: Brian Tao From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Kernel configuration/compilation tool Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: >> >> Not today :-( Maybe next .... (sometime) >> But we should not be building any new mechanisms that are incompatible with >> that goal. > > I don't see anything in the current model that inherently shuts >the door on non-Intel ports. Most of the stuff appears as either an >"option" or a "device", and those need to be specified no matter which >platform you choose to compile for. I concur. By making the selection driven by a per-architecture database scheme, we will be able to easily expand into different options for different architectures. These are the kind of design decisions that I advocate as "not incompatabile with different architectures". I don't expect us to instantly get to something that is "right" for working in any architecture, but I do think that we can begin moving in that direction. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 08:03:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA11922 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:03:29 -0700 Received: from pht.com (exodus.pht.com [198.60.59.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA11916 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:03:26 -0700 Received: by pht.com id AA06162 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:27:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:27:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Midgley To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (sorry if you see this twice, but I think it was rejected since I wasn't yet on the list.) Hi all, I just upgraded from a 2.0 snap to this version on our ftp/www site. I was mainly upgrading for stability and so we could have a perl that wouldn't fail its self-tests. machine: pci p60 w/96mb ram, 5 4gig drives (quantum, seagate) and 2 2gig drives (all scsi), buslogic scsi, 3com ethernet. kernel configs: users=128, options "NMBCLUSTERS=2048", disabled a lot of things, including bounce-buffers, ide, cdrom, iso9660. some problems now: after only about 12 hours of uptime, the system virtually locked up with messages about bt0: buffer full (the system was still pingable, great). None of the errors were logged (I should have expected that) so I don't have them verbatim. After another 12 hours it spontaneously rebooted. (nothing in the log but I wasn't even watching the machine) The machine refuses to NFS mount linux-exported drives, claiming the directory is a stale nfs handle. I believe we upgraded the linux nfs server about 3 months ago to whatever was current. it appears that freebsd only sees 64 of the 96 mb ram on the machine. the bios self-tests on boot see it all. How do I monitor ram/swap usage on a running system? the machine had an smc card which wasn't recognized by the new system. to be more accurate, I prepped the boot drive on a machine with a 3com and then changed /etc/sysconfig's network_interfaces="ep0 lo0" to network_interfaces="ed0 lo0" that didn't work in the server itself with the smc, so I swapped the cards themselves around and switched it back. 3com support looks much better btw. Sorry if these are things which have come up--I had to drop this list because my mailbox was buried with new mail all the time. Please cc replies to me, because I may miss them (just resubscribed to the _digest_ version, yay) Is it worthwhile to upgrade to the latest snap, get stock 2.0.5, replace some of my hardware, etc.? Brad From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 08:32:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA13172 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:32:36 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA13158 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:32:32 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id LAA24219; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:27:12 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:27:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd To: "Julian Stacey " cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , "Michael C. Newell" , Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507280209.EAA03116@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Julian Stacey wrote: > > > majordomo@star-gate.com > > was Majordomo an `out of the box' port for you ? nearly. if i remember correctly, the scripts have to be editted to find perl and sendmail /usr/local/bin/perl -> /usr/bin/perl /usr/lib/sendmail -> /usr/sbin/sendmail and the Makefile needs to be set up for BSD setup rather than the other semantics. a majordom user and group majordom have to be created as do the lists, archives and digests > we should have it in ports :-) yes, we should and i should gen a patch file for the above changes as well a script that creates the majordom user and majordom group. no promises as too when i can do it. sorry. ;(( a note should be included with the majordomo port. if majordomo is used for mailing lists, either serveral or just one large one, sendmail should be recompiled with QUEUESIZE set to a more appropriate value. the default is 1000. freefall now uses 5000 and the mailing lists are much better off as a result. this is the fix to our 'time wrap'ed messages' problem. (thanks to peter wemm for indentifing the problem and pointing out the solution to me.) jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 09:08:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA16251 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:08:46 -0700 Received: from ix8.ix.netcom.com (ix8.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA16227 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:08:43 -0700 Received: from by ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id JAA07405; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:06:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:06:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199507281606.JAA07405@ix8.ix.netcom.com> From: dsilvia@ix.netcom.com (D.E. Silvia ) Subject: What's the Haps? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A couple of years ago I became involved in 386BSD, but my work load preempted my less than minor interest. I'd like to get back into the pool. Interested? thx, Dave S. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 09:11:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA16591 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:11:05 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA16577 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:10:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA01180 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:04:03 +0100 To: Brad Midgley cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:27:10 MDT." Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:04:02 +0100 Message-ID: <1178.806947442@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , Brad Midgl ey writes: >(sorry if you see this twice, but I think it was rejected since I wasn't >yet on the list.) Err. We don't reject incoming mail by checking for the sender being on the subscription list - Majordomo doesn't work that way. >machine: pci p60 w/96mb ram, 5 4gig drives (quantum, seagate) and 2 2gig >drives (all scsi), buslogic scsi, 3com ethernet. kernel configs: users=128, >options "NMBCLUSTERS=2048", disabled a lot of things, including >bounce-buffers, ide, cdrom, iso9660. Which buslogic card? It may also be more informative to send the kernel probe output (you can get it using `dmesg' or from /var/log/messages) > after only about 12 hours of uptime, the system virtually locked up with >messages about bt0: buffer full (the system was still pingable, great). >None of the errors were logged (I should have expected that) so I don't >have them verbatim. After another 12 hours it spontaneously rebooted. >(nothing in the log but I wasn't even watching the machine) This isn't my area, but my machine at `work' has a Buslogic 946 in it, and it has never seen this error, despite being hammered pretty hard sometimes. > The machine refuses to NFS mount linux-exported drives, claiming the >directory is a stale nfs handle. I believe we upgraded the linux nfs >server about 3 months ago to whatever was current. Huh? You mean the mount fails, or subsequent accesses fail? I would be surprised if you got a stale nfs handle warning/error on mount... > it appears that freebsd only sees 64 of the 96 mb ram on the machine. the >bios self-tests on boot see it all. How do I monitor ram/swap usage on a >running system? To get the kernel to see memory past 64Mb, put `options MAXMEM 98304' in your kernel config file and recompile the kernel (the number is the number of kbytes in your machine). pstat -s will report swap space usage, and vmstat can report on the vm system. I would recommend `top' from the ports collection, but I'm not sure how accurate it's reporting is for memory use. > the machine had an smc card which wasn't recognized by the new system. >to be more accurate, I prepped the boot drive on a machine with a 3com >and then changed /etc/sysconfig's What sort of SMC card? > network_interfaces="ep0 lo0" > to > network_interfaces="ed0 lo0" That will just affect what the system tries to ifconfig up once it has booted, not what devices the kernel will look for on boot. If the kernel hasn't found the card, this change will just produce an error. >that didn't work in the server itself with the smc, so I swapped the cards >themselves around and switched it back. 3com support looks much better btw. You may have to boot with `-c' and manually enter the cards configuration for it to be found. >Is it worthwhile to upgrade to the latest snap, get stock 2.0.5, replace >some of my hardware, etc.? A new kernel may be in order, as some things have been fixed since 950622-SNAP, but I'd prefer trying to find out why you are having problems with your current setup before we go altering things. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 09:36:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA17899 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:36:49 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA17891 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:36:45 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA19530 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:36:08 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:36:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199507281636.MAA19530@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you >> say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought >> so).. > >You are mistaken. Everthing is *not* an ioctl. It instead resembles >something like the proc filesystem. Do you think *that* is an >abortion? > UNIX is an abortion. All O/Ss are abortions. There is no clean way to design an O/S to do everything, which is exactly what everyone using a particular O/S wants it to do. The wost thing is if you have to redesign the internal structures every time something new comes along. ioctls() allow you to design portable interfaces without having to change the O/S. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 09:57:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA18424 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:57:20 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA18418 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:57:18 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA07457 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:57:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199507281657.JAA07457@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: voice comms on freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:09:00 +0200." <199507280209.EAA03116@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:57:10 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Julian Stacey " said: > > > majordomo@star-gate.com > > was Majordomo an `out of the box' port for you ? > we should have it in ports :-) > I think it should be in the ports directory and I would consider majordomo as one of the "Internet Out Of The Box" tools also with whatever is needed to create html mail archive . majordomo was easy to port. setting up the account, /etc/aliases, lists, etc... was a non-trivial task. All I am saying that majordomo needs a script to setup mailing lists. Preferably a GUI and a nice write up. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 10:10:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA18839 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:10:07 -0700 Received: from pht.com (exodus.pht.com [198.60.59.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA18825 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:10:03 -0700 Received: by pht.com id AA07886 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:33:28 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:33:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Midgley To: Gary Palmer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine In-Reply-To: <1178.806947442@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hi everybody How's that latest snap? I missed it by 2 days :) > >machine: pci p60 w/96mb ram, 5 4gig drives (quantum, seagate) and 2 2gig > >drives (all scsi), buslogic scsi, 3com ethernet. kernel configs: users=128, > >options "NMBCLUSTERS=2048", disabled a lot of things, including > >bounce-buffers, ide, cdrom, iso9660. >Which buslogic card? bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=10 bt0: version 4.23, sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs > >messages about bt0: buffer full (the system was still pingable, great). > This isn't my area, but my machine at `work' has a Buslogic 946 in it, > and it has never seen this error, despite being hammered pretty hard > sometimes. and the 950422 snap I was using never had problems like this. It would go into "bt0: trying to reset" or somesuch tailspin on occasion if any of the external scsi drives were physically moved (yikes). how is 2940w support these days? :) we do have quite a zoo connected to the scsi chain, probably worth mentioning: (bt0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST31230N 0170" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 1010MB (2069860 512 byte sectors) (bt0:1:0): "SEAGATE ST15150N 0017" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) (bt0:2:0): "SEAGATE ST15150N 0017" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(bt0:2:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) (bt0:3:0): "SEAGATE ST15150N 0013" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd3(bt0:3:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) (bt0:4:0): "QUANTUM XP34301 102C" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd4(bt0:4:0): Direct-Access 4106MB (8410200 512 byte sectors) (bt0:5:0): "QUANTUM XP34301 102C" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd5(bt0:5:0): Direct-Access 4106MB (8410200 512 byte sectors) (bt0:6:0): "SEAGATE ST32550N 0012" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd6(bt0:6:0): Direct-Access 2047MB (4194058 512 byte sectors) > Huh? You mean the mount fails, or subsequent accesses fail? I would be > surprised if you got a stale nfs handle warning/error on mount... I should have reread my original post better. The mount (mount linuxbox:/blah /mnt) works fine, but then accessing the mount point (/mnt) produces the stale error. On another box running the fancy fancy caldera linux system the mount works and then doesn't give the stale error, it just claims "permission denied" > > the machine had an smc card which wasn't recognized by the new system. > >to be more accurate, I prepped the boot drive on a machine with a 3com > >and then changed /etc/sysconfig's > > What sort of SMC card? bnc and 10base-t combo (using the 10baset port). the irq it detected was right in any case. To reiterate: the system was installed on a scsi drive on a puny machine to the side (which had a 3com) and then moved over. If the network_interfaces wasn't the only thing to change, that could be the problem. Jul 26 17:12:08 gandalf /kernel: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 msize 8192 on isa Jul 26 17:12:08 gandalf /kernel: ed0: address 00:00:c0:3f:66:96, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit) > > network_interfaces="ep0 lo0" > > to > > network_interfaces="ed0 lo0" > > That will just affect what the system tries to ifconfig up once it has > booted, not what devices the kernel will look for on boot. If the > kernel hasn't found the card, this change will just produce an error. yes, I did reboot and the kernel saw the card, ifconfiged it, etc., but net traffic just wouldn't go through it. unplugging the smc from the net even produced a: Jul 26 16:23:38 gandalf /kernel: ed0: device timeout in the log. thanks for everyone's help. btw, samba under freebsd is very cool. If only we'd had this long ago enough we wouldn't need an evil netware server. now if only we had netatalk under freebsd :) -Brad From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 10:36:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA20349 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:36:47 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA20338 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:36:43 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA11448; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:36:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA00174; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:37:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199507281737.KAA00174@corbin.Root.COM> To: Brad Midgley cc: Gary Palmer , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 95 09:33:27 MDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:37:21 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Jul 26 16:23:38 gandalf /kernel: ed0: device timeout This usually indicates that the irq isn't set properly in the kernel. Find out how the card is configured and then change the setting in 'userconfig' with "-c" at the Boot: prompt. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 10:40:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA20631 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:40:52 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA20615 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:40:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id SAA00512 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:40:21 +0100 To: Brad Midgley cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:33:27 MDT." Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:40:20 +0100 Message-ID: <510.806953220@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , Brad Midgl ey writes: >bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus >bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=10 >bt0: version 4.23, sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs Hmm. Rod seems to be the expert on these cards. Rod? >how is 2940w support these days? :) Pretty good from what I hear. Justin (Gibbs) still has more work to do on it AFAIK before he'll be happy (if ever :-) ) >I should have reread my original post better. The mount (mount >linuxbox:/blah /mnt) works fine, but then accessing the mount point (/mnt) >produces the stale error. On another box running the fancy fancy caldera >linux system the mount works and then doesn't give the stale error, it >just claims "permission denied" Strange. I'd suspect a misconfiguration somewhere, but I'm no linux expert. >bnc and 10base-t combo (using the 10baset port). the irq it detected was >right in any case. >To reiterate: the system was installed on a scsi drive on a puny machine >to the side (which had a 3com) and then moved over. If the >network_interfaces wasn't the only thing to change, that could be the >problem. You also have to change one of the ifconfig_ lines below AFAIR, and I'd double check the default router, etc, which is slightly further down. >Jul 26 17:12:08 gandalf /kernel: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 >msize 8192 on isa >Jul 26 17:12:08 gandalf /kernel: ed0: address 00:00:c0:3f:66:96, type >SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit) Looks ok. >yes, I did reboot and the kernel saw the card, ifconfiged it, etc., but >net traffic just wouldn't go through it. unplugging the smc from the net >even produced a: >Jul 26 16:23:38 gandalf /kernel: ed0: device timeout >in the log. Check that the output of ifconfig -a and netstat -r look reasonable. I've got a suspicious feeling that you haven't config'ed ed0 properly... >thanks for everyone's help. btw, samba under freebsd is very cool. If >only we'd had this long ago enough we wouldn't need an evil netware >server. now if only we had netatalk under freebsd :) Yeah - samba's nice :-) I did do a bit of work on porting CAP once, but I had to stop as I didn't have any Mac's talking Ethertalk on my net segment (or any Macs that I could talk to full stop). When I saw netatalk was kernel level, I didn't go any further as I had trouble seeing how I could fit it into the ``ports'' system without a lot of trouble, and I didn't want to import it into the CVS tree to be part of the kernel... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 10:52:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA21417 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:52:49 -0700 Received: from pht.com (exodus.pht.com [198.60.59.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA21409 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:52:46 -0700 Received: by pht.com id AA08101 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:16:36 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:16:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Midgley To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: amd and keeping filesystems r/o Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk With 22 gigs of file systems connected to our freebsd machine, crashing and having to fsck them all is quite a pain. LFS is a solution in the long term, but in the mean time is it possible to set up something like amd to keep file systems read-only until a write access is attempted and then put them back into read-only after some delay? as I'm doing a lot of unscheduled rebooting :) lately, I've just been making everything I can read-only (by hand). I was even thinking of an ugly solution like a crontab entry to make our ftp mirror archives r/w only during the mirroring window. yick. would amd help? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 12:18:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA27295 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:18:29 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA27285 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:18:26 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA02109; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:18:04 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507281918.MAA02109@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: junkmail@pht.com, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507281737.KAA00174@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jul 28, 95 10:37:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 905 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >Jul 26 16:23:38 gandalf /kernel: ed0: device timeout > > This usually indicates that the irq isn't set properly in the kernel. Find > out how the card is configured and then change the setting in 'userconfig' > with "-c" at the Boot: prompt. > And if this happens to be a PCI machine I just went through a similiar failure with a customer who was adding an ed0 device on IRQ10 which had been assigned by the P-n-P bios to one of his PCI cards. So make sure if this is a PCI machine that you have properly set the PCI P-n-P bios to state that IRQ x is in use by the ISA bus. The PCI code does not seem to be registering it's interrupts so that the ISA code does proper conflict detection. That is a bug that needs fixed, and badly :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 12:28:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA28016 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:28:53 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA28008 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:28:51 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA02136; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:29:03 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507281929.MAA02136@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: junkmail@pht.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <510.806953220@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Jul 28, 95 06:40:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1960 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In message , Brad Midgl > ey writes: > >bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus > >bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=10 > >bt0: version 4.23, sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs > > Hmm. Rod seems to be the expert on these cards. Rod? :-) expert, well, okay, yea, I suppose. More like I have learned to hate them the more I try to get the problems fixed. And BusLogic is now far far down and clear off of my even considered as a product to sell list. They have made interface changes between the card and the host, and can not even provide me with documentation on what the changes are at each revision of the card :-(. You have a revision A card with 4.23 firmware, probably about a 4.83 or 4.84 bios here. As long as the board works with your motherboard correctly (ie, you can get past the bloody SCSI Select stuff) do _NOT_ upgrade it to the newer revision E (4.25J/4.92E) card!! There are serious problems with FreeBSD and the newer cards at this time in _some_ systems. If the card worked fine with a previous release of FreeBSD let us assume for the time being we do not have a bt946 hardware problem and let us not touch that piece of hardware for fear of introducing an unknown into the equation. Now that I have your revision information let me go back and look over and reply to the other email on this particular scsi related problem. > > >yes, I did reboot and the kernel saw the card, ifconfiged it, etc., but > >net traffic just wouldn't go through it. unplugging the smc from the net > >even produced a: > > >Jul 26 16:23:38 gandalf /kernel: ed0: device timeout Check that you have the IRQ of the ed0 device assigned to the ISA bus in the PCI P-n-P configuration menu of the BIOS setup for you machine. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 12:47:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA29275 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:47:46 -0700 Received: from laugh.async.vt.edu (laugh.async.vt.edu [128.173.222.175]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA29269 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:47:43 -0700 Received: (from jester@localhost) by laugh.async.vt.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA00883 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:48:35 -0400 From: jester Message-Id: <199507281948.PAA00883@laugh.async.vt.edu> Subject: Other than a pc.... To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:48:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 386 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I was wondering if FreeBSD has been planned to be ported to Alpha machine. I have a DEC AXP 3000lx, which up till now can only run OSF/1. Linux does not support this machine because of the Turbo Channels. So basically, is there any hope that one day I can run FreeBSD on my machine? Thanks for any and all info! :) -- jester -- - jes@vt.edu - http://laugh.async.vt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 13:05:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA00385 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:05:32 -0700 Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00373 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:05:18 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id QAA07352; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:05:08 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id QAA08840; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:05:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:05:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: jester cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Other than a pc.... In-Reply-To: <199507281948.PAA00883@laugh.async.vt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, jester wrote: > I was wondering if FreeBSD has been planned to be ported to Alpha > machine. I have a DEC AXP 3000lx, which up till now can only run > OSF/1. Linux does not support this machine because of the Turbo > Channels. So basically, is there any hope that one day I can run > FreeBSD on my machine? Thanks for any and all info! :) The list FreeBSD-platforms is full of discussions of this. Check it out at FreeBSD-platforms@FreeBSD.org. > > -- jester -- > - jes@vt.edu - > http://laugh.async.vt.edu > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0R) and n3lxx (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 2.0.5-snap) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 13:18:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA01212 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:18:48 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01204 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:18:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08626; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:16:31 -0700 To: Robert Withrow cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:23:25 EDT." <199507281223.IAA06946@spooky.rwwa.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:16:30 -0700 Message-ID: <8624.806962590@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you > > say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought > > so).. > > You are mistaken. Everthing is *not* an ioctl. It instead resembles > something like the proc filesystem. Do you think *that* is an > abortion? You misunderstood me. I was raising the issue of ioctl() as one argument (there are more) about how mapping all your devices and files through a filesystem model was WRONG. And yes, I think the /proc filesystem is an abortion too. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 13:18:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA01248 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:18:58 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01238 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:18:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08637; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:17:50 -0700 To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:12:47 CDT." <199507281212.HAA27841@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:17:49 -0700 Message-ID: <8635.806962669@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I disagree. Oh, not in the user interface model, but in the file system > > > and process model. It takes the UNIX "everything is a file" a logical > > > evolutionary step forward. > > > Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you > > say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought > > so).. > > Plan 9 doesn't have IOCTL at all. Just about everything is done with open, > close, read, and write. So how do you do "out of band" operations, like telling a tape drive to skip forward to the next mark? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 13:27:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA01976 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:27:14 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01970 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:27:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08759; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:26:12 -0700 To: dsilvia@ix.netcom.com (D.E. Silvia ) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What's the Haps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:06:15 PDT." <199507281606.JAA07405@ix8.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:26:11 -0700 Message-ID: <8757.806963171@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A couple of years ago I became involved in 386BSD, but my work load > preempted my less than minor interest. I'd like to get back into the > pool. Interested? Sure! What's _your_ interest? There's all sorts of stuff that needs doing around here.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 13:37:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA02451 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:37:25 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA02445 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:37:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08797; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:36:19 -0700 To: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:36:08 EDT." <199507281636.MAA19530@mail.htp.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:36:19 -0700 Message-ID: <8795.806963779@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > UNIX is an abortion. All O/Ss are abortions. There is no clean way to design Well, yes, but now we're expanding the topic a little too widely.. :-) > it to do. The wost thing is if you have to redesign the internal structures > every time something > new comes along. ioctls() allow you to design portable interfaces without > having to change the O/S. Oh YUCK, no they don't! You still need to hack the OS to get the whatever driver it is you're working on to see the new ioctl, and then you need to beat on the header files to get the new ioctl() define registered in user space. That's one of the reasons I hate the whole mechanism - it's crude! There is a better way, and it's called the Object model.. No, I'm not a C++ or Smalltalk fanatic, and I think that the whole OOP thing has actually been considerably over-hyped, but this is one instance where the fundamental tennets of object orientation are quite sound. Files should be objects with extensible, inheritable behaviors. Instead of ioctl()'ing them, you should send them messages which propagate up the inheritance chain as necessary. You should also be able to have arbitrary properties that can be associated with them as necessary, thus ending the "suffix bodge" once and for all. I haven't played with OS/2 extensively enough to really class myself as an advocate, but on the surface it looks like they've essentially done something very much like this and it looks pretty neat. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 13:43:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA02728 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:43:15 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA02721 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:43:13 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00410; Fri, 28 Jul 95 14:35:44 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507282035.AA00410@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: "World" LKM? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 14:35:43 MDT Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <7072.806923937@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 28, 95 02:32:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Some time ago (Terry? You remember?) some folks in Japan posted > something about their "world" LKM for NetBSD. Does anyone know > the current status of this and where it might be obtained from? You are thinking of "World21". It's an ISO 2022 console driver using JIS 208 + JIS 212 to support 21 printed languages. It was the first LKM, when NetBSD had them and FreeBSD did not. It manually blew the function pointer entry points for the console driver (overwriting the console functions -- an ambitios program). I still have a copy of it (on tape); it installs and runs on NetBSD 0.9. The most recent posting said that it hasn't been ported to FreeBSD yet (that was about a month and a half ago on the Hackers list). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 13:49:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA03081 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:49:14 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03073 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:49:11 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA20909 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:48:37 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:48:37 -0400 Message-Id: <199507282048.QAA20909@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: your mail Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > > I disagree. Oh, not in the user interface model, but in the file system >> > > and process model. It takes the UNIX "everything is a file" a logical >> > > evolutionary step forward. >> >> > Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you >> > say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought >> > so).. >> >> Plan 9 doesn't have IOCTL at all. Just about everything is done with open, >> close, read, and write. > >So how do you do "out of band" operations, like telling a tape >drive to skip forward to the next mark? > > Jordan > I haven't read Plan9, but it sounds like another "great idea" by some folks with a serious tunnelvision problem from what's been said here. Although I suspect that there is something like STREAMS' getmsg() and putmsg() for custom functions, which is better than nothing at all, but a major pain in the a*s and completely non-portable to non-STREAMS environments. In System V we convert STREAMS messages to ioctls...so maybe that tells you something. no_ioctls == no_features == mediocre_product. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 14:10:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA04641 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:10:56 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA04628 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:10:54 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA21114; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:10:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:10:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199507282110.RAA21114@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: RE: ioctls() and O/Ss Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> UNIX is an abortion. All O/Ss are abortions. There is no clean way to design > >Well, yes, but now we're expanding the topic a little too widely.. :-) > >> it to do. The wost thing is if you have to redesign the internal structures >> every time something >> new comes along. ioctls() allow you to design portable interfaces without >> having to change the O/S. > >Oh YUCK, no they don't! You still need to hack the OS to get the >whatever driver it is you're working on to see the new ioctl, and then >you need to beat on the header files to get the new ioctl() define >registered in user space. That's one of the reasons I hate the whole >mechanism - it's crude! You shouldn't have to if you set aside enough slots for driver-specific commands. what I was referring to was that "existing" drivers can be used with any O/S with the common ioctl mechanism. We have the same driver calls for DOS.WINDOWS, System V and BSD. In BSD we have to stuff them in an ifreq structure, in System V a STREAMS message, and in DOS and Windows a mini carrier structure. Buts its all the same base code. Remember that people don't use an O/S because its a better O/S, but because more things are available and run well in a particular O/S. If you create an environment that makes porting drivers difficult then you are at a disadvantage. Very few vendors have the expertise or resources to write custom drivers for small market O/Ss like BSD unix, and as you're finding out you can't do everthing yourself either. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 14:15:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA04983 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:15:14 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA04956 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:14:55 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02492; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:15:07 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507282115.OAA02492@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Cc: witr@rwwa.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <8624.806962590@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 28, 95 01:16:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1728 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you > > > say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought > > > so).. > > > > You are mistaken. Everthing is *not* an ioctl. It instead resembles > > something like the proc filesystem. Do you think *that* is an > > abortion? > > You misunderstood me. I was raising the issue of ioctl() as one > argument (there are more) about how mapping all your devices and files > through a filesystem model was WRONG. And yes, I think the /proc > filesystem is an abortion too. Can you tell me what you thing of Apollo Aegis (aka Domain/OS) typed file objects with type managers? Would you consider that an elegant solution to the ``abortion'' we call a file system based design? I ask because I happen to know you have worked with Apollos in the past and I happen to still do that (infact I own a pair of old crusty 68040/32MB/760MB DN5500's) and have found nothing I like more than the design of that file system for doing nifty netto stuff with (most of the 4.4 file systems could easily be implemented in a weeks time by writting type managers that behavied like them.) Infact this system behavies very much like the vfs ficus stacking stuff, and has for over 10 years, you can add ``stacks'' to it on the fly without ever even looking at kernel code :-) The very first implementation of NFS on apollo was a file type manager, so you can do some mighty powerful things with it. NFS was later pushed into the kernel, but the code was not changed drastically until SR10.3. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 14:16:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA05211 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:16:42 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA05197 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:16:38 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02502; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:16:42 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507282116.OAA02502@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dennis@et.htp.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <8795.806963779@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 28, 95 01:36:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1000 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ... > There is a better way, and it's called the Object model.. No, I'm not > a C++ or Smalltalk fanatic, and I think that the whole OOP thing has > actually been considerably over-hyped, but this is one instance where > the fundamental tennets of object orientation are quite sound. Files > should be objects with extensible, inheritable behaviors. Instead of > ioctl()'ing them, you should send them messages which propagate up the > inheritance chain as necessary. You should also be able to have > arbitrary properties that can be associated with them as necessary, > thus ending the "suffix bodge" once and for all. Sounds like Aegis (aka Domain/OS) to me :-). Is that where you are drawing your ``object model'' from? If so, maybe we have a very common ground here that we would both just _love_ to see done in a BSD based system. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 14:24:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA06255 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:24:19 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA06237 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:24:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA09074; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:23:06 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: witr@rwwa.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:15:07 PDT." <199507282115.OAA02492@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:23:06 -0700 Message-ID: <9072.806966586@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Can you tell me what you thing of Apollo Aegis (aka Domain/OS) typed > file objects with type managers? Would you consider that an elegant > solution to the ``abortion'' we call a file system based design? Yes, I would say that Aegis was considerably closer to my idea of "ideal" in many ways. In fact, Apollo was so far ahead of their time in so many respects that it makes me a little sad to sometimes when I think of their demise (or assimilation might be a better word). Easy clustering, *practical* extensions to the filesystem, like the variant symlinks I'm always harping about (made things like I18N or multi-architecture support SOOOO much easier!), even the GUI had some nice features.. I used to watch the serious Apollo hacks just flying along, cutting and pasting command lines and editing their histories and such.. A lot more integration between system and GUI than you get with X.. > The very first implementation of NFS on apollo was a file type manager, > so you can do some mighty powerful things with it. NFS was later pushed > into the kernel, but the code was not changed drastically until SR10.3. Yep. We could all learn a lot from Apollo, but it's an unfortunate fact that the UNIX hacks were always a little jealous of its features and the Apollo hacks themselves were too arrogant to "sell" them properly, so the combination of the two ended up sparking something of a war between UNIX/X and Domain, and when UNIX "won" the victors wrongly assumed that it was because the Apollo propeller-heads were inferior in every way and history was re-written to shut them out. Sad sad! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 15:35:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA12177 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:35:40 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA12171 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:35:38 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00837; Fri, 28 Jul 95 15:42:23 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507282142.AA00837@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Lessons learned from Plan9 To: aflundi@sandia.gov (Alan F Lundin) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 15:42:22 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507281424.IAA22384@sargon.mdl.sandia.gov> from "Alan F Lundin" at Jul 28, 95 08:24:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have to agree with Peter and Robert here. It seems > to me to be awfully cool to do > > # echo format > /dev/sd0/crtl > > to format a disk (and the disk can even be remote)! Why when it opens the device does it not get the lookup values and result in opening the device on your machine instead of the remote machine? How do you determine valid settings for which an echo is apropriate? How do you prevent a MIME message from sending the device message? It seems you would want to request interactive confimation for something like a format... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 16:13:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA14251 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:13:55 -0700 Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA14245 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:13:53 -0700 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id QAA08726; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:12:40 -0700 Received: from plokta.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-5.3) id AA14658; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:12:36 -0700 Received: by plokta.Eng.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA14960; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:12:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:12:36 -0700 Message-Id: <9507282312.AA14960@plokta.Eng.Sun.COM> From: "Bryan O'Sullivan" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Peter da Silva , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <8635.806962669@time.cdrom.com> References: <199507281212.HAA27841@bonkers.taronga.com> <8635.806962669@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk j> So how do you do "out of band" operations, like telling a tape j> drive to skip forward to the next mark? You have a control file associated with it. As a hypothetical example, a terminal would have one file for doing character reads and writes, and another for reading and writing control commands like set/get baud rate, and so on. The system works pretty well, though I have a notion that retrofitting something similar onto would be pointless. ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:06:00 -0700 Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R2.01/dg-rtp-v02) id AA09482; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 21:05:26 -0400 Received: (rivers@localhost) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.11/8.6.5) id UAA17812; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:54:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:54:28 -0400 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199507290054.UAA17812@ponds.UUCP> To: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with /bin/mv on 2.0.5. Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This is a problem on 2.0.5R... If you have the following directory: /usr/user/DIR and the mode of DIR is as in: drwx------ 2 user general 512 Jul 28 20:34 DIR/ and you execute the following (as the user 'user'): cd /tmp touch t mv t /usr/user/DIR you will get a message from mv: mv: /usr/user/DIR/t: set owner/group: Operation not permitted the message was not produced at 2.0. I have determined that /bin/mv hasn't changed, and that this message is produced by /bin/mv when the fchown() call for the destination failed, with errno set to EPERM. So, what's changed in fchown() that would cause this - the message is quite aggravating. - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 19:13:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA18392 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:13:11 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA18384 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:13:06 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA14234 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:47:52 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA13453; 28 Jul 95 20:28:17 CDT (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA13450 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:28:17 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507290128.UAA13450@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: What's in a name To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:28:16 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: peter@taronga.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 997 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > You misunderstood me. I was raising the issue of ioctl() as one > argument (there are more) about how mapping all your devices and files > through a filesystem model was WRONG. And yes, I think the /proc > filesystem is an abortion too. It's good to have a single namespace for all objects visible to the system. This means that one way or another everything has to map into the filesystem, since most objects on the system are files. The alternative is to have special unique system calls for every possible kind of device, which bloats the API incredibly. If you want NT, you know where to find it. I've done more programming on operating systems with unique APIs for different kinds of devices than I ever want to: a uniform interface with a uniform namespace is *much* better. It's one of the things I most like about UNIX. Where UNIX falls short is where it departs from this model: abortions like Sewers and the System V IPC interfeces. What's the FreeBSD-flame mailing list again? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 19:13:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA18409 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:13:19 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA18399 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:13:14 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA14236 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:47:59 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA13753; 28 Jul 95 20:33:14 CDT (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA13750 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:33:13 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507290133.UAA13750@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: What's in a name? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:33:13 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199507290050.TAA12663@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Stephanie da Silva" at Jul 28, 95 07:50:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 972 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I have to agree with Peter and Robert here. It seems > > to me to be awfully cool to do > > # echo format > /dev/sd0/crtl > > to format a disk (and the disk can even be remote)! > Why when it opens the device does it not get the lookup values and result > in opening the device on your machine instead of the remote machine? Because when it hits a remote machine instead of doing what NFS does and running namei() over the network (at one transaction per directory, ick!) it hands the whole thing off to the remote machine and gets an open file descriptor back, the way virtually every other network file system in the world does it (OpenNET, for example, or Sprite). (and before you worry about diskless machines, the root is always virtual, with /dev built up at boot by sequentially binding the devices you need) > How do you prevent a MIME message from sending the device message? Same way you prevent a MIME message from overwriting /bin/sh or .rhosts. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 19:13:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA18447 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:13:28 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA18428 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:13:24 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA14232 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:47:44 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA13326; 28 Jul 95 20:19:27 CDT (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA13323; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:19:26 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507290119.UAA13323@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:19:25 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <8635.806962669@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 28, 95 01:17:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1348 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > I disagree. Oh, not in the user interface model, but in the file system > > > > and process model. It takes the UNIX "everything is a file" a logical > > > > evolutionary step forward. > > > Oh great. One of UNIX's worst abortions, taken to extremes (can you > > > say "ioctl() is a bogus ``API'' for controlling behavior?" I thought > > > so).. > > Plan 9 doesn't have IOCTL at all. Just about everything is done with open, > > close, read, and write. > So how do you do "out of band" operations, like telling a tape > drive to skip forward to the next mark? The tape has a "data" and a "control" device. You write commands to the control device. You can read all the Plan 9 papers at plan9.att.com, and there's a lot of very interesting stuff in there. For example, mounts are local to the process, like current directory and environment variables are for UNIX. So when a program is running under 8 1/2 it has a set of devices for the screen and mouse visible. When you run 8 1/2, it opens the *same* devices, so you can run 8 1/2 in a 8 1/2 window... One of the devices is /dev/bitblt. Backups are handled the same way, and you can do things like: find 1995/07*/sys/src/cmd -name '*.c' | xargs grep -i bug If you want to work on the system as it was in July 1995, you do: bind("1995/0701/sys/src", "/sys/src", REPLACE) ... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 19:28:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA18891 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:28:41 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18879 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:28:38 -0700 Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01036; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:21:17 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199507290221.WAA01036@hda.com> Subject: Re: Other than a pc.... To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jester@laugh.async.vt.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Jul 28, 95 04:05:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 524 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey writes: > The list FreeBSD-platforms is full of discussions of this. Check it out > at FreeBSD-platforms@FreeBSD.org. Is this true and I'm not getting any of that mail? I haven't seen anything on FreeBSD-platforms and I am subscribed (I just checked). Peter -- *** Net and mailer reconfig is going on @hda.com. Problems to hdslip@iii.net Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 19:28:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA18886 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:28:40 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18878 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:28:37 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA00939; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:27:34 -0700 To: peter@taronga.com cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What's in a name In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:28:16 CDT." <199507290128.UAA13450@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:27:34 -0700 Message-ID: <936.806984854@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It's good to have a single namespace for all objects visible to the system. > > This means that one way or another everything has to map into the filesystem, > since most objects on the system are files. I don't agree. Oh, sure, I agree that most most objects are files, certainly, but they're only one kind of object and I object to forcing everything into one naming model just because they're popular objects. There are a number of "global objects" hanging around your modern UN*X system that really don't want to be files and need to be substantially twisted into weird shapes in order to get them to fit. Give me classes, objects and a registry mechanism (for which a hierarchical organization method would be only *one* of possibly many available) any day.. And no, I never said I wanted NT. Stop putting dirty words in my mouth.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 19:46:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA19476 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:46:24 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA19470 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:46:20 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA13744; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:45:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199507290245.TAA13744@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What's in a name In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:27:34 PDT." <936.806984854@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:45:57 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk There are number of schemes available which we can study and possibly come up with an implementation: QNX, TAOS, ILU from xerox parc CORBA Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 20:00:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA20018 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:00:18 -0700 Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.191.196.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA19995 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:00:13 -0700 Received: by misery.sdf.com id <1086-2>; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:00:31 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:00:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Gary Palmer cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: UserDB In-Reply-To: <1115.806853677@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > Quoting the O'Reilly Nutshell book on Sendmail: > > ``BSD 4.4 UNIX includes UDB, a user database which holds a variety of infor- > mation about each user on the system, including an entry for each user > which specifies where that user's mail is to be delivered'' > > I can't find anything of the sort on either the Lite CDROM or in > FreeBSD. Is this something that isn't in Lite, only in the encumbered > version? You can make the user databases with "makemap". Then just the option into your sendmail.cf file. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 20:23:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA20870 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:23:19 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20853 ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:22:57 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA14124; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 13:19:59 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 13:19:59 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507290319.NAA14124@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com Subject: Re: Problem with /bin/mv on 2.0.5. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >If you have the following directory: > /usr/user/DIR >and the mode of DIR is as in: >drwx------ 2 user general 512 Jul 28 20:34 DIR/ >and you execute the following (as the user 'user'): > cd /tmp > touch t > mv t /usr/user/DIR >you will get a message from mv: > mv: /usr/user/DIR/t: set owner/group: Operation not permitted When a file is moved across file systems, it is impossible to preserve the group if the user is not a member of the original group. >the message was not produced at 2.0. I have determined that /bin/mv >hasn't changed, and that this message is produced by /bin/mv when >the fchown() call for the destination failed, with errno set to EPERM. > So, what's changed in fchown() that would cause this - the message >is quite aggravating. fchown() was changed to reduce the problem. Now it is not an error to fchown() a file to the same owner/group that it already has. Previously this was an error if the user didn't belong to the target group. Now it is possible to move a file across file systems without getting the error provided the target directory has the same gid as the source file, but there is no difference for the more common case of a file in /tmp that has a different gid to your home directory. You probably had your user directory on the same file system as /tmp in 2.0. mv was too broken to report the error in 1.1.5. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 20:51:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA22564 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:51:06 -0700 Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA22556 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:51:04 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id XAA27767; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:50:50 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id XAA13895; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:50:50 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:50:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Peter Dufault cc: jester@laugh.async.vt.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Other than a pc.... In-Reply-To: <199507290221.WAA01036@hda.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Peter Dufault wrote: > Chuck Robey writes: > > > The list FreeBSD-platforms is full of discussions of this. Check it out > > at FreeBSD-platforms@FreeBSD.org. > > Is this true and I'm not getting any of that mail? > > I haven't seen anything on FreeBSD-platforms and I am subscribed > (I just checked). > > Peter I wasn't guessing about that. Within the last week there has been an interesting discussion about the DEC alpha chip. I read it myself, on platforms, so that definitely ws the right place to ask, although perhaps there's enough general interest on hackers. > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0R) and n3lxx (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 2.0.5-snap) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 22:13:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA24902 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:13:23 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA24895 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:13:19 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15454 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:51:58 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA17744; 28 Jul 95 23:51:16 CDT (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA17741; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:51:15 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507290451.XAA17741@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: What's in a name To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:51:15 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <936.806984854@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 28, 95 07:27:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 537 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > There are a number of "global objects" hanging around your modern UN*X > system that really don't want to be files and need to be substantially > twisted into weird shapes in order to get them to fit. Only because the interfaces have never been really cleanly designed. IOCTL is a perfect example of how the interface has been more or less abandoned. Those sorts of rough edges should have long since been dealt with. In Plan 9 they have been, at the cost of neglecting most of the past ten years worth of user interface design. :-( From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 22:35:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA25361 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:35:56 -0700 Received: from MIT.EDU (SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.72.1.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA25355 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:35:55 -0700 Received: from YAZ-PISTACHIO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04506; Sat, 29 Jul 95 01:35:53 EDT Received: by yaz-pistachio.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA19342; Sat, 29 Jul 95 01:35:48 -0400 Message-Id: <9507290535.AA19342@yaz-pistachio.MIT.EDU> To: Doug Rabson Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HotJava In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jul 1995 11:01:42 BST." Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:35:46 EDT From: Christopher Provenzano Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 13 Jul 1995, Timothy Moore wrote: > > > Is anyone still working on porting HotJava to FreeBSD? I see that a > > version of pthreads that supports FreeBSD has been released. I might > > be interested in taking this on; in a previous life I was a Common > > Lisp implementor and have some appreciation of the issues. > > I just looked at this new pthreads implementation and it is a bit thin. > It won't compile on FreeBSD without hacking, it doesn't address the need > for an MT-safe C library and it is infected with the GPL. > > A far better pthreads implementation can be found in > sipb.mit.edu:/pub/pthreads. This has MT-safe io, sockets, stdio and > compiles out of the box on FreeBSD and many other architectures. The > author (Chris Provenzano) is sometimes around on this list and sometimes > threatens to merge it into FreeBSD's source tree. Any news on that, > Chris? I've been busy, but I'm still working on it. CAP From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 22:38:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA25436 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:38:02 -0700 Received: from genesis.nred.ma.us (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA25430 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:37:58 -0700 Received: by genesis.nred.ma.us (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id BAA04435; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:37:52 -0400 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:37:52 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.nred.ma.us (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199507290537.BAA04435@genesis.nred.ma.us> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Floppy Tape timeout errors Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The problem I'm having now, tho, is whenever I do any operations with ft, I > get: > Jul 27 20:57:25 scylla /kernel: fdc0 input ready timeout or > Jul 27 20:57:25 scylla /kernel: fdc0 output ready timeout > > These messages keep being repeated on the console, naturally, which is > really annoying. Kristyn- The messages are annoying yet normal and can be ignored. They are caused by the fd driver spewing too many debug messages. In the next release of the ft driver I use my own I/O routines so this problem will be eliminated entirely. I just went from 1.1.5 to 2.0.5 myself and I get the messages as well, but my backups and restores work fine. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 28 23:30:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA27258 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:30:01 -0700 Received: from mail1.wolfe.net (mail1.wolfe.net [204.157.98.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA27252 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:30:00 -0700 Received: from gonzo.wolfe.net (moore@gonzo.wolfe.net [204.157.98.2]) by mail1.wolfe.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id XAA26809 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:32:00 -0700 From: Timothy Moore Received: (moore@localhost) by gonzo.wolfe.net (8.6.10/8.6.9) id XAB14313; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:29:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:29:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199507290629.XAB14313@gonzo.wolfe.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: problems sup ing from freefall? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to sup stable from freefall. Nothing's happening; sup is just sitting there. From tcpdump it looks like freefall keeps sending out SYN packets for the initial connection without ever seeing my machine's ACK. What's up? Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 01:13:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA29044 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:13:47 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA29029 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:13:37 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55357>; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:13:01 +0200 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02321 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:13:04 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:13:04 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199507281713.TAA02321@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just deleted by accident, all my mail (list & personal) received between about 95 07 28 08:00 - 17:00 GMT , so if anyone is awaiting a response ... please resend Julian S jhs@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 01:16:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA29217 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:16:04 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA29211 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:16:00 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA03370; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:16:18 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507290816.BAA03370@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: problems sup ing from freefall? To: moore@WOLFE.net (Timothy Moore) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507290629.XAB14313@gonzo.wolfe.net> from "Timothy Moore" at Jul 28, 95 11:29:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 711 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm trying to sup stable from freefall. Nothing's happening; sup is > just sitting there. From tcpdump it looks like freefall keeps sending > out SYN packets for the initial connection without ever seeing my > machine's ACK. What's up? The supfilesrv process on freefall wedges every few days. No one has sat down with gdb and supfilesrv long enough to catch it in the wedge and find out why it goes into this funky mode. I have killed and restarted the process and sup is now working, though it is rather busy due to being down for a bit :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 04:08:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA07448 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 04:08:57 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA07434 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 04:08:53 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA02201; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 04:08:00 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 04:08:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199507291108.EAA02201@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it CC: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@rah.stargate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507280858.KAA04113@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> (message from Luigi Rizzo on Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:58:22 +0200) Subject: Re: C source for Rockwell ADPCM decompression available From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * After a few days of work, I managed to make an initial port to C * of the Rockwell conversion routines from their ADPCM format to Ulaw * and other formats. My work is based on the sources publicly released * from Rockwell earlier this year, and is intended to help those * willing to use Rockwell-based voice modems in a Unix environment. Hello Luigi, do you want to make a port of this? :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 06:34:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA17778 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 06:34:24 -0700 Received: from fathergoose.net6c.io.org (fathergoose.net6c.io.org [204.92.6.86]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA17772 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 06:34:19 -0700 Received: (from kwong@localhost) by fathergoose.net6c.io.org (8.6.11/8.6.10) id JAA00264; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:24:36 -0400 From: Ken Wong Message-Id: <199507291324.JAA00264@fathergoose.net6c.io.org> Subject: Re: Scheduling Algorithms (was: Re: panic in brelse() ... ) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507262109.AA23296@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 26, 95 03:09:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1430 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > [ ... a proposed linear reduction scheduling algorithm ... ] > > [ ... the BSD 4.4 algorithm ... ] > > [ ... the current FreeBSD modified BSD 4,.4 algorithm ... ] > > [ ... the Amiga time base promotion algorithm ... ] > > I think all of these algorithms miss the boat, if we are to be able > to support RT scheduling and SMP scheduling. > > The main issue in both of these tasks that are on the table is a > divorce of the ready-to-run state from the act of running the > code. I think that this really implies seperate queues based > on priority. I think single queue is best serve here. if we want realtime and SMP. I know some RT SMP system does it by dividing priority into 2 sections 1) RT 0-7 2) the Rest is Timeshring within each group, round robin is used to dispatch proceess with the same priority. within group 2) some other algo can still be used to change the priority but never goes up to 1). 1) is fix priority and pre-emptive. the process table can include cpu which it will execute. > > It's necessary because multiple processes can be in the run state (for > SMP, or even for kernel premption), and RT processes have to be able > to be pigs as much as they want (if they are supported). the above would solve this problem. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Ken Wong From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 06:46:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA20231 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 06:46:32 -0700 Received: from server.netcraft.co.uk (server.netcraft.co.uk [194.72.238.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA20225 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 06:46:30 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by server.netcraft.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06100; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 14:39:56 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199507291339.OAA06100@server.netcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: DOOM for FreeBSD ? To: dfr@render.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 14:39:56 +0100 (BST) Cc: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, jkh@time.cdrom.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Jul 26, 95 10:11:58 am Reply-to: paul@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1005 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Doug Rabson who said > > > > > The README file from QNX says that this port was done by QNX using > > the sources they got from ID. They say that the port was done nearly in > > 1 day because it was written very portable. I think QNX has signed > > some NDA with ID about these sources :-( > > So, Jordan, why don't you approach then in the guise of FreeBSD inc. and > do whatever is nescessary (short of handing them money) and do the port. > I am sure you can fit it into your schedule... > If they're even willing to discuss the prospect somebody here could sign an NDA and do the port. I'd be willing. This goes for other companies too, if getting a binary is all we're ever likely to achieve then I'd be willing so sign NDA's and do the port for free just to get it available for FreeBSD. -- Paul Richards, Bluebird Computer Systems. FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, http://www.freebsd.org/~paul Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1222 457651 (home) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 07:07:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA20884 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 07:07:40 -0700 Received: from server.netcraft.co.uk (server.netcraft.co.uk [194.72.238.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA20878 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 07:07:35 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by server.netcraft.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA06144; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:03:35 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199507291403.PAA06144@server.netcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:03:33 +0100 (BST) Cc: jcargill@cs.wisc.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507280319.UAA02225@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jul 27, 95 08:19:14 pm Reply-to: paul@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1660 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Rodney W. Grimes who said > > Names (if Jordan agrees with the proposal) will become: > X.Y-BRANCH: > These are -current versions of the branch, and > BRANCH currently has the values ``STABLE'' or ``CURRENT''. > > X.Y-BRANCH-SNAPMMDDYY: > This is a snap shot on MMDDYY of one of the branches, > it is turned on by a release engineering during snap > shot building. Only the MMDDYY part is provided (and > the change with use "`date`" to get that.) > > X.Y-RELEASE: > This is a release, this requires a commit to build > a proper release src tree so that things built with > that src tree also say ``RELEASE''. This will appear > briefly at the end of a -stable branch as the release > is merged and such before -STABLE rolls up to the > next version and all the numbers get bumped by the > person doing the cvs ops such as tree tagging. [Humm.. > perhaps the branch should be called ``STABALIZING'' :-)] >From a gnats point of view there's a few things I'd like to see. If there's a unique release name then we can segragate reports in the database on a per-release basis. This would include alpha and beta releases so when we finally adopt a proper release process those who have alpha or beta copies will have the PR's labelled as such and we can look up just bug reports for any particular cycle of a release. Gnats is currently very broken in this respect because releases go out the door without the send-pr version getting bumped. -- Paul Richards, Bluebird Computer Systems. FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, http://www.freebsd.org/~paul Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1222 457651 (home) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 08:28:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA27933 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 08:28:01 -0700 Received: from gatekeeper.alpharel.com (gatekeeper.ALPHAREL.COM [204.118.5.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA27927 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 08:27:59 -0700 Received: (from mail@localhost) by gatekeeper.alpharel.com (8.6.8/8.6.6a) id IAA13016; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 08:27:56 -0700 Received: from optisun40.optigfx.com(147.203.1.40) by gatekeeper.alpharel.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013014; Sat Jul 29 08:27:46 1995 Received: by optisun40.optigfx.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1.SI1) id AA22997; Sat, 29 Jul 95 08:27:44 PDT Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 08:27:44 PDT From: schwarz@alpharel.com (Steve Schwarz) Message-Id: <9507291527.AA22997@optisun40.optigfx.COM> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: 3c589 pcmcia ethernet card does not work BNC Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just bought a 3c589 pcmcia ethernet card for my Gateway 2000 DX4/100 (called Liberty) laptop. I have been totally unable to make it work using the zp0 device in 2.0.5. My network is BNC. The card works just fine in the Liberty when that is running DOS/windows. When the Liberty is running 2.0.5 the zp0 device is probed fine, and the ethernet address of the card is gotten just fine. But nothing that tries to actually use the card succeeds in sending or receiving any packets (as evidenced from running etherfind on a Sparc SLC elsewhere on the network). Any help will be greatly appreciated. sts From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 08:43:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA28664 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 08:43:30 -0700 Received: from gatekeeper.alpharel.com (gatekeeper.ALPHAREL.COM [204.118.5.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA28654 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 08:43:27 -0700 Received: (from mail@localhost) by gatekeeper.alpharel.com (8.6.8/8.6.6a) id IAA13054; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 08:43:26 -0700 Received: from optisun40.optigfx.com(147.203.1.40) by gatekeeper.alpharel.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013052; Sat Jul 29 08:43:09 1995 Received: by optisun40.optigfx.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1.SI1) id AA23025; Sat, 29 Jul 95 08:43:07 PDT Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 08:43:07 PDT From: schwarz@alpharel.com (Steve Schwarz) Message-Id: <9507291543.AA23025@optisun40.optigfx.COM> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: PS2 mouse does not work Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have plugged a PS2 mouse into the PS2 port of my Gateway 2000 DX4/100 (called Liberty) laptop. Running FreeBSD 2.0.5, I added device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" conflicts tty irq 12 vector psmintr to my kernel configuration, rebuilt my kernel, and on booting, both the keyboard and the mouse probe successfully. But after booting, the keyboard is unusable. I noticed that the question pertaining to the psm driver is still in the FreeBSD FAQ but the answer is now gone. Does this mean that (temporarily?) psm support has been eliminated from FreeBSD 2.0.5? Is there something we PS2 mouse users should know? Or, is the problem some conflict between the PS2 mouse plugged into the PS2 port and the "builtin" (read, totally unusable) pointing device located on the keyboard? When the Liberty is running DOS and windows, both the mouse and the infernal builtin thing work together.... sts From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 09:02:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA00105 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:02:17 -0700 Received: from pht.com (exodus.pht.com [198.60.59.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA29997 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:02:15 -0700 Received: by pht.com id AA12837 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:01:40 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:01:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Midgley To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Gary Palmer , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine In-Reply-To: <199507281929.MAA02136@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > If the card worked fine with a previous release of FreeBSD let us assume > for the time being we do not have a bt946 hardware problem and let us > not touch that piece of hardware for fear of introducing an unknown into > the equation. unfortunately, there is a new thing in the equation. The smc net card wouldn't work, so I popped it out, put in a 3com, and now it works. The system is running now so I don't dare to poke it. We've been running about 24 hours with only one (intentional) reboot so it would see the high 32m (yay) > Check that you have the IRQ of the ed0 device assigned to the ISA bus > in the PCI P-n-P configuration menu of the BIOS setup for you machine. yes, both the 3com and smc I had set to irq5, which is reserved for isa in pnp. As long as the 3com code is pretty solid now, I'm happy to leave it. I think it's time to just cross my fingers. some asides: we do have an a2940w, but the external connector on it isn't the standard "mini-50" it looks more like a "mini-68". Do you know if I can just get an adapter cable for my external (non-wide) chain? do scsi devices on a second controller just show up as [r]sd7-[r]sd13?? (ie, same major device number, just incrementing the minor number?) How does the machine decide which controller is first? where can I find documentation on /sbin/dset and the kernel -q option? ----------- (rejoining the list) looks good guys. It's nice to tune in again. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 09:05:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA00665 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:05:22 -0700 Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA00636 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:05:21 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id MAA03329 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 12:05:18 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id MAA01635; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 12:05:18 -0400 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 12:05:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: new snap Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been running the 0622 snap ... is there any likelihood that I could get the new snap working, by getting the src distribution, unpacking in, going into single user and making world? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0R) and n3lxx (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 2.0.5-snap) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 09:06:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA00802 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:06:46 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA00796 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:06:45 -0700 Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.252.21.73]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14957(6)>; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:05:58 PDT Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00235; Sat, 29 Jul 95 12:05:53 EDT Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26327; Sat, 29 Jul 95 12:05:52 EDT Message-Id: <9507291605.AA26327@gnu.mc.xerox.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pthreads In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:35:46 PDT." <9507290535.AA19342@yaz-pistachio.MIT.EDU> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:05:52 PDT From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk While we're on the topic of threads, is there any work on getting kernel level threads into bsd? marty From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 09:12:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA01136 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:12:50 -0700 Received: from remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.82.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01130 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:12:48 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id BAA04104; Sun, 30 Jul 1995 01:12:41 +0900 Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 01:12:41 +0900 Message-Id: <199507291612.BAA04104@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: schwarz@alpharel.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: 3c589 pcmcia ethernet card does not work BNC In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 29 Jul 95 08:27:44 PDT. <9507291527.AA22997@optisun40.optigfx.COM> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <9507291527.AA22997@optisun40.optigfx.COM> schwarz@alpharel.com writes: >> When the Liberty is running 2.0.5 the zp0 device is probed fine, >> and the ethernet address of the card is gotten just fine. But >> nothing that tries to actually use the card succeeds in sending >> or receiving any packets (as evidenced from running etherfind >> on a Sparc SLC elsewhere on the network). I've posted a patch (but I can't test it) about this bug on comp.unix.freebsd.misc a few weeks ago. I don't have it now because my disk has been crashed after I posted it. Does anyone have it? -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 09:22:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA01379 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:22:30 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA01368 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:22:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199507291622.JAA01368@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Brad Midgley cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Gary Palmer , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Jul 95 10:01:38 MDT." Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:22:26 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> If the card worked fine with a previous release of FreeBSD let us assume >> for the time being we do not have a bt946 hardware problem and let us >> not touch that piece of hardware for fear of introducing an unknown into >> the equation. > >unfortunately, there is a new thing in the equation. The smc net card >wouldn't work, so I popped it out, put in a 3com, and now it works. The >system is running now so I don't dare to poke it. We've been running >about 24 hours with only one (intentional) reboot so it would see the high >32m (yay) > >> Check that you have the IRQ of the ed0 device assigned to the ISA bus >> in the PCI P-n-P configuration menu of the BIOS setup for you machine. > >yes, both the 3com and smc I had set to irq5, which is reserved for isa in >pnp. As long as the 3com code is pretty solid now, I'm happy to leave it. >I think it's time to just cross my fingers. > >some asides: > >we do have an a2940w, but the external connector on it isn't the standard >"mini-50" it looks more like a "mini-68". Do you know if I can just get >an adapter cable for my external (non-wide) chain? There are wide to narrow connectors availible, but you have to be carefull since the 2940W uses a screw on external connector. >do scsi devices on a second controller just show up as [r]sd7-[r]sd13?? >(ie, same major device number, just incrementing the minor number?) How >does the machine decide which controller is first? The devices in the scsi system can be dynamically allocated a unit number based on the order they are probed (not necessarily related to SCSI ID), or they can be "hardwired" to a specific unit number. Take a look at scsi.4 and the LINT kernel config file for details. > >where can I find documentation on /sbin/dset and the kernel -q option? Whoops. No man page. Ugen??? -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 09:36:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA01858 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:36:08 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01849 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:36:01 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA00372; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:34:58 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:34:58 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199507291634.JAA00372@time.cdrom.com> To: announce@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: root.flp image in 2.1.0-950726-SNAP was corrupted Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Due to a build problem. It has been fixed and updated in-place on freefall.cdrom.com and ftp.freebsd.org. Sorry for any inconvenience caused! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 09:59:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA02634 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:59:50 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA02625 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:59:38 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA00655 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:54:48 +0100 To: Brad Midgley cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:01:38 MDT." Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:54:48 +0100 Message-ID: <653.807036888@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , Brad Midg ley writes: >do scsi devices on a second controller just show up as [r]sd7-[r]sd13?? >(ie, same major device number, just incrementing the minor number?) How >does the machine decide which controller is first? The system just keeps adding SCSI devices from where it left off with the first controller, unless you hard wire down the device assignments in the kernel config file. So if sd0 through sd4 are used on the first controller, numbering will start at sd5 on the second. It's probably best to hardwire down your choices in the kernel config file, though, as you won't have to go through your /etc/fstab every time you change the chain on the first controller. David (Greenman) wired down the disks on ftp.cdrom.com for this very reason. He mapped the disks with what could be called octal notation - sd0 to sd7 on the first controller, sd10 to sd17 on the second and sd20 to sd27 on the third. I'm sure you get the idea - with this scheme, you can see at a glance which controller the disk is on... >where can I find documentation on /sbin/dset and the kernel -q option? -q? You mean -s? About the only docs I know of are in the Hardware Guide that is part of sysinstall, although there may be something in the Handbook. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 10:59:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA05149 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:59:46 -0700 Received: from mail1.wolfe.net (mail1.wolfe.net [204.157.98.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05143 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:59:45 -0700 Received: from gonzo.wolfe.net (moore@gonzo.wolfe.net [204.157.98.2]) by mail1.wolfe.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA05082; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:01:44 -0700 From: Timothy Moore Received: (moore@localhost) by gonzo.wolfe.net (8.6.10/8.6.9) id KAA16464; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:59:12 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:59:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199507291759.KAA16464@gonzo.wolfe.net> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: sup wedged again? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hmmm, sup looks just as wedged to me now as it did last night... Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 11:12:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA05621 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:12:54 -0700 Received: from Root.COM ([198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA05611 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:12:52 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA12741; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:12:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA00995; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:13:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199507291813.LAA00995@corbin.Root.COM> To: Timothy Moore cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup wedged again? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Jul 95 10:59:12 PDT." <199507291759.KAA16464@gonzo.wolfe.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:13:27 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hmmm, sup looks just as wedged to me now as it did last night... Works fine for me. Perhaps it is just busy. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 11:18:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA06180 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:18:35 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06174 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:18:31 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA04233; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:18:59 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507291818.LAA04233@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: New 2.1.0-950726-SNAP available - come 'n get it! To: paul@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jcargill@cs.wisc.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507291403.PAA06144@server.netcraft.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Jul 29, 95 03:03:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3120 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply to Rodney W. Grimes who said > > > > Names (if Jordan agrees with the proposal) will become: Jordan has agreed and reviewed the change to newvers.sh, I will be commiting it shortly. > > X.Y-BRANCH: ... > > X.Y-BRANCH-SNAPMMDDYY: This was changed to X.Y-BRANCH-MMDDYY (ie, we drop the word SNAP from it, SNAP's are identified by the fact they have a -date on the end of them). > > X.Y-RELEASE: > > This is a release, this requires a commit to build > > a proper release src tree so that things built with > > that src tree also say ``RELEASE''. This will appear > > briefly at the end of a -stable branch as the release > > is merged and such before -STABLE rolls up to the > > next version and all the numbers get bumped by the > > person doing the cvs ops such as tree tagging. [Humm.. > > perhaps the branch should be called ``STABALIZING'' :-)] > > >From a gnats point of view there's a few things I'd like to see. > > If there's a unique release name then we can segragate reports in the > database on a per-release basis. This would include alpha and beta > releases so when we finally adopt a proper release process those who have > alpha or beta copies will have the PR's labelled as such and we can > look up just bug reports for any particular cycle of a release. I am not so sure that we ever want to again call releases ALPHA, BETA, DELTA, etc. The above -MMDDYY gives us the equivelent functionality without the assumption it will always be Alpha, Beta, Release. I am not sure we want gnats to file bug reports by release version as often bugs apply to multiple versions and or releases and need to be handled properly to fix all applicable branches. I do agree we should probably seperate gnats reports by ``CURRENT'', ``STABLE'', or ``RELEASE'' but that is as fine grain as we should get. With the current branching of the cvs tree we can now also do post release critical bug fixes and actually release real src code diff bug fixes quite easily (ie, 2.1-RELEASE.BUGFIX1) though this will require additional man power to manage. The tools are there, we have the branches, we will have the tags, etc. This is a new level of service that has not been done in the past as it was hard to do without the branches, it is a level of service I think our customer base would just _love_ to have. With an inverted .depend tree (something I would love to have) you can even go from src patch to set of effected binaries and produce minimal binary upgrade kits when practical). > Gnats is currently very broken in this respect because releases go out the > door without the send-pr version getting bumped. That part should be easily fixed now with the new version of src/sys/newconf.sh for build time data, and using uname for run time data. I would like to see send-pr report both, as the build time of send-pr can give a clue about the base binary set, and the run time uname data lets us know which kernel at least. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 11:29:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA06522 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:29:46 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06516 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:29:43 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA04333; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:29:27 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507291829.LAA04333@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine To: junkmail@pht.com (Brad Midgley) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brad Midgley" at Jul 29, 95 10:01:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2168 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > If the card worked fine with a previous release of FreeBSD let us assume > > for the time being we do not have a bt946 hardware problem and let us > > not touch that piece of hardware for fear of introducing an unknown into > > the equation. > > unfortunately, there is a new thing in the equation. :-(, okay, we need to treat it as such then. > The smc net card > wouldn't work, so I popped it out, put in a 3com, and now it works. The > system is running now so I don't dare to poke it. We've been running > about 24 hours with only one (intentional) reboot so it would see the high > 32m (yay) :-) > > Check that you have the IRQ of the ed0 device assigned to the ISA bus > > in the PCI P-n-P configuration menu of the BIOS setup for you machine. > > yes, both the 3com and smc I had set to irq5, which is reserved for isa in > pnp. As long as the 3com code is pretty solid now, I'm happy to leave it. > I think it's time to just cross my fingers. Good. > some asides: > > we do have an a2940w, but the external connector on it isn't the standard > "mini-50" it looks more like a "mini-68". Do you know if I can just get > an adapter cable for my external (non-wide) chain? Not sure, depends on if the aha2940W allows you to terminate just the upper 8 bits of the external bus. If it does allow that you can get a SCSI-III 68 pin to SCSI-II 50 pin cable and do this. If the board does not allow you to terminate the upper 8 bits your stuck. > do scsi devices on a second controller just show up as [r]sd7-[r]sd13?? By default they will show up at sd(n+1) where n is the last scsi disk on the first controller. See ``man 4 sd'' for how to hardwire down sd unit numbers. > (ie, same major device number, just incrementing the minor number?) How > does the machine decide which controller is first? First one probed, depends on config file ordering. > where can I find documentation on /sbin/dset and the kernel -q option? There is no man pages for these, read the src :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 11:35:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA06665 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:35:34 -0700 Received: from mail1.wolfe.net (mail1.wolfe.net [204.157.98.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06658 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:35:33 -0700 Received: from gonzo.wolfe.net (moore@gonzo.wolfe.net [204.157.98.2]) by mail1.wolfe.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA05894; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:37:24 -0700 From: Timothy Moore Received: (moore@localhost) by gonzo.wolfe.net (8.6.10/8.6.9) id LAA31310; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:34:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:34:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199507291834.LAA31310@gonzo.wolfe.net> To: davidg@Root.COM CC: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: David Greenman's message of Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:13:27 -0700 <199507291813.LAA00995@corbin.Root.COM> Subject: Re: sup wedged again? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:13:27 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org >Hmmm, sup looks just as wedged to me now as it did last night... Works fine for me. Perhaps it is just busy. -DG This is what I see with tcpdump when I try to sup, until the sup times out. In fact, I see something very similar when I try to ftp to freefall too. This is over ppp0; I'm running the 6/22 snapshot. Could I have something mis-configured on my end? Thanks, Tim 19:26:38.105994 sea-ts1-p30.1192 > freefall.supfilesrv: S 492622337:492622337(0) win 16384 sea-ts1-p30.1192: S 3599458305:3599458305(0) ack 492622338 win 16728 freefall.supfilesrv: . ack 1 win 16728 19:26:38.320290 sea-ts1-p30.1192 > freefall.supfilesrv: P 1:5(4) ack 1 win 16728 19:26:39.460158 sea-ts1-p30.1192 > freefall.supfilesrv: P 1:40(39) ack 1 win 16728 19:26:42.460143 sea-ts1-p30.1192 > freefall.supfilesrv: P 1:40(39) ack 1 win 16728 19:26:43.941164 freefall.supfilesrv > sea-ts1-p30.1192: S 3599458305:3599458305(0) ack 492622338 win 16728 freefall.supfilesrv: . ack 1 win 16728 19:26:48.460142 sea-ts1-p30.1192 > freefall.supfilesrv: P 1:40(39) ack 1 win 16728 19:27:00.460271 sea-ts1-p30.1192 > freefall.supfilesrv: P 1:40(39) ack 1 win 16728 19:27:07.925923 freefall.supfilesrv > sea-ts1-p30.1192: S 3599458305:3599458305(0) ack 492622338 win 16728 freefall.supfilesrv: . ack 1 win 16728 19:27:24.460272 sea-ts1-p30.1192 > freefall.supfilesrv: P 1:40(39) ack 1 win 16728 19:27:53.903800 freefall.supfilesrv > sea-ts1-p30.1192: R 1:1(0) ack 1 win 16728 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 11:35:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA06677 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:35:35 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06659 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:35:33 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA04353; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:35:56 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507291835.LAA04353@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: sup wedged again? To: moore@WOLFE.net (Timothy Moore) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507291759.KAA16464@gonzo.wolfe.net> from "Timothy Moore" at Jul 29, 95 10:59:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 971 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hmmm, sup looks just as wedged to me now as it did last night... Must be your end then: gndrsh# cd ~ncvs/bin gndrsh# sup -v supfile cvs-etc SUP 9.26 (4.3 BSD) for file supfile at Jul 29 11:35:15 SUP Upgrade of cvs-etc at Sat Jul 29 11:35:17 1995 SUP Fileserver 8.13 (4.3 BSD) 6651 on freefall.cdrom.com at 11:35:17 SUP Fileserver supports compression. SUP Requesting changes since Jul 29 01:14:48 1995 SUP Using compressed file transfer SUP Updated directory release/sysinstall/help/sv_SE.ISO_8859-1 SUP Updated directory release/sysinstall/help/sv_SE.ISO8859-1 SUP Updated directory release/sysinstall/help/ru_SU.KOI8-R SUP Updated directory release/sysinstall/help/no_NO.ISO_8859-1 SUP Updated directory release/sysinstall/help/no_NO.ISO8859-1 SUP Updated directory release/sysinstall/help/nl_NL.ISO_8859-1 -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 11:57:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA07915 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:57:25 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA07905 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:57:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199507291857.LAA07905@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: junkmail@pht.com (Brad Midgley), gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on a big machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Jul 95 11:29:27 PDT." <199507291829.LAA04333@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:57:22 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> we do have an a2940w, but the external connector on it isn't the standard >> "mini-50" it looks more like a "mini-68". Do you know if I can just get >> an adapter cable for my external (non-wide) chain? > >Not sure, depends on if the aha2940W allows you to terminate just the >upper 8 bits of the external bus. If it does allow that you can get a >SCSI-III 68 pin to SCSI-II 50 pin cable and do this. If the board does >not allow you to terminate the upper 8 bits your stuck. You can enable high and low byte termination separately. >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 15:30:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA01061 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:30:39 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA01055 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:30:36 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08430; Sat, 29 Jul 95 16:22:20 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507292222.AA08430@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Scheduling Algorithms (was: Re: panic in brelse() ... ) To: kwong@fathergoose.net6c.io.org (Ken Wong) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 16:22:20 MDT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507291324.JAA00264@fathergoose.net6c.io.org> from "Ken Wong" at Jul 29, 95 09:24:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The main issue in both of these tasks that are on the table is a > > divorce of the ready-to-run state from the act of running the > > code. I think that this really implies seperate queues based > > on priority. > > I think single queue is best serve here. if we want realtime and > SMP. > I know some RT SMP system does it by dividing priority into 2 sections > 1) RT 0-7 > 2) the Rest is Timeshring > within each group, round robin is used to dispatch proceess with > the same priority. within group 2) some other algo can still be > used to change the priority but never goes up to 1). 1) is fix > priority and pre-emptive. the process table can include cpu which > it will execute. SVR4 ES/MP runs multiple queues, as does Solaris. The big issue here is per processor queue equivalency. It buys you the ability to have one processor pull a process off the ready-to-run queue and run it without hitting a global mutex. For SMP performance, the ability to avoid global synchronizations is the biggest win you can have. The RT issue is addressed by queu prioritization. In effect, this is the same as your queue insertion model, with the increased concurrency on get from multiplying the available semaphore heirarchy by the number of queues. In terms of RT, the divorce of the processor as a resource (which is what divorcing the ready-to-run state setting from the context switch process itself is, in effect) turns RT events into kernel preemption points, with processors as anonymous resources. The per processor queue ownership also has the side effect of saving the peorcessor instruction and data caches, and TLB settings, from undue thrashing (as a process goes from one processor to another, causing the thrash. Finally, a multiple queue model allows queueing to be order independent on the basis of priority. This is an important effect, since an RT system must invoke priority lending if the system resources are to be shared instead of block-committed for RT tasks. What that means is that the scheduling priority that would normally determine the queue to which the processor was pushed when ready to run is not the sole determiner of which queu the process can go on. If a non-RT process holds a resource that a high priority RT process needs while a read-to-run medium priority RT process exists, the medium priority RT process will block the non-RT porcess, in effect blocking the high priority RT process. To avoid this, the act of the high priority RT process blocking on the resource held by the lower priority process will cause the low priority process to be "lent" the higher priority processes priority until such time as it unblockes the needed resource. This prevents the high priority process from suffering starvation at the hands of a medium priority process because a low priority process holds a resource that the high priority process wants. > > It's necessary because multiple processes can be in the run state (for > > SMP, or even for kernel premption), and RT processes have to be able > > to be pigs as much as they want (if they are supported). > > the above would solve this problem. I think it's both a scheduling and a concurrency issue. I think that the ordered queue mechanism would have to have multiple priority based entry order pointers to support priority lending, and that that's really a more complex design at a higher concurrency cost that you'd want if you only have one queue in which to implement the ordering. Look at the complexities ordered insertion in the LRU list in page replacement algorithms (to implement per vnode working sets, for instance, to avoid cache thrashing) just to avoid staging the queues. It's really not worth it. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 15:33:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA01190 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:33:40 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA01184 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:33:39 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08444; Sat, 29 Jul 95 16:25:18 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507292225.AA08444@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: pthreads To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 16:25:17 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9507291605.AA26327@gnu.mc.xerox.com> from "Marty Leisner" at Jul 29, 95 09:05:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > While we're on the topic of threads, is there any work on getting > kernel level threads into bsd? I thibk that this is a natural consequence of allowing kernel reentrancy in the SMP port... the kernel becomes internally preemption-safe. I don't believe that that granularity has been achieved yet; I've been unable to contact the person doing the work... which is unfortunate, since I just bought an MP box specifically to be able to help on the work. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 15:44:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA01918 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:44:14 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA01905 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:44:12 -0700 Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id OAA18554 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 14:44:18 -0700 Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R2.01/dg-rtp-v02) id AA20042; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:36:04 -0400 Received: from lakes (lakes [192.96.3.39]) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA02565; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:18:42 -0400 Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA06773; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:23:07 -0400 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:23:07 -0400 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199507292023.QAA06773@lakes> To: zeta.org.au!bde@dg-rtp.dg.com, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, ponds!rivers@relay1.uu.net Subject: Re: Problem with /bin/mv on 2.0.5. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >If you have the following directory: > > > /usr/user/DIR > > >and the mode of DIR is as in: > > >drwx------ 2 user general 512 Jul 28 20:34 DIR/ > > >and you execute the following (as the user 'user'): > > > cd /tmp > > touch t > > mv t /usr/user/DIR > > >you will get a message from mv: > > > mv: /usr/user/DIR/t: set owner/group: Operation not permitted > > When a file is moved across file systems, it is impossible to preserve > the group if the user is not a member of the original group. > > >the message was not produced at 2.0. I have determined that /bin/mv > >hasn't changed, and that this message is produced by /bin/mv when > >the fchown() call for the destination failed, with errno set to EPERM. > > > So, what's changed in fchown() that would cause this - the message > >is quite aggravating. > > fchown() was changed to reduce the problem. Now it is not an error to > fchown() a file to the same owner/group that it already has. Previously > this was an error if the user didn't belong to the target group. Now it > is possible to move a file across file systems without getting the error > provided the target directory has the same gid as the source file, but > there is no difference for the more common case of a file in /tmp that > has a different gid to your home directory. > > You probably had your user directory on the same file system as /tmp in 2.0. > > mv was too broken to report the error in 1.1.5. > > Bruce > There appears to be some confusion (not to beat on Bruce at all, his was just the message I chose to reply to :-) ): 1) The owner of all the files/directories is 'user'; there group id of all the files/directories is the same, and is 'user'. 2) This operated "correctly" at 1.1.5 and 2.0 - that is, no message was generated when the 'mv' occured. 3) The source for 'mv' hasn't changed from 2.0 to 2.0.5; so I don't think that would be a fruitful place to look. 4) /tmp is a different file system from /usr, and I have always done that (that is, in my 2.0 system, /tmp was a different file system.) I think the problem is the fchown() is being more aggressive at checking in 2.0.5 than it did at 2.0 - possible more so than is correct. - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 15:48:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA02446 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:48:16 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02440 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:48:15 -0700 Received: from w8hd2.w8hd.org (w8hd2.w8hd.org [198.252.159.25]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id NAA18205 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 13:11:35 -0700 Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.11]) by w8hd2.w8hd.org (8.6.12/w8hd2) with SMTP id QAA03811 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:09:03 -0400 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:09:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: freefall not reachable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tried to sup the latest -current but freefall is unreachable: 14 barrnet.SanFrancisco.mci.net (204.70.32.6) 96.821 ms 94.158 ms 98.592 ms 15 su-a.barrnet.net (192.31.48.200) 97.703 ms 125.271 ms 99.215 ms 16 * su-a.barrnet.net (192.31.48.200) 99.796 ms !H * 17 * su-a.barrnet.net (192.31.48.200) 110.403 ms !H * 18 su-a.barrnet.net (192.31.48.200) 104.921 ms !H * 100.398 ms !H kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 15:48:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA02511 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:48:24 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02504 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:48:23 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id NAA18245 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 13:17:03 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA20052 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Sat, 29 Jul 1995 14:43:38 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA04081; 29 Jul 95 14:01:44 CDT (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA04078; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 14:01:44 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 14:01:44 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507291901.OAA04078@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud References: <9507241827.AA07622@cs.weber.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" wrote: >There is no error in the driver or in getty. >Solution for it already exists: >1) Configure modem to gettytab speed and issue AT&W. >2) Configure modem to do ATZ on DTR drop. Run this after dialout: "( stty 38400 ; echo AAAT ) > /dev/cuawhatever" You *don't* want to sent AT&W to the modem, ever, unless preceded by ATZ and whatever setting *changes* you want. If it needs an AT&W, then send this: stty 38400; echo AAAT; sleep 1; echo ATZ; sleep 1; echo AAAT&W (or better: chat AAAT OK-AAAT-OK ATZ OK-AAAT-OK AT&W OK AAAT&W so you don't chance sending an AT&W at the wrong time) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 15:53:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA02929 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:53:45 -0700 Received: from netcom20.netcom.com (netcom20.netcom.com [192.100.81.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02922 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:53:44 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id PAA23854; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:51:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199507292251.PAA23854@netcom20.netcom.com> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pthreads In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Jul 95 16:25:17 MDT." <9507292225.AA08444@cs.weber.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 15:51:55 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > While we're on the topic of threads, is there any work on getting > > kernel level threads into bsd? > I thibk that this is a natural consequence of allowing kernel reentrancy > in the SMP port... the kernel becomes internally preemption-safe. I think Marty Leisner is talking about multiple threads of control in a single address space. If so, this can be handled without kernel preemption. AFAIK kernel preemption is really only required to handle realtime processes. BTW, nice description of `priority inversion' w.r.t. prioritized realtime processes on MP systems (in your other message about Scheduling Algorithms). From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 16:32:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA04653 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:32:54 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA04644 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:32:46 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA16572; Sun, 30 Jul 1995 09:27:56 +1000 Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 09:27:56 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507292327.JAA16572@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com, ponds!rivers@zeta.org.au, zeta.org.au!bde@dg-rtp.dg.com Subject: Re: Problem with /bin/mv on 2.0.5. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1) The owner of all the files/directories is 'user'; there group id > of all the files/directories is the same, and is 'user'. /tmp has group bin unless you've changed the default. > 2) This operated "correctly" at 1.1.5 and 2.0 - that is, no message > was generated when the 'mv' occured. > 3) The source for 'mv' hasn't changed from 2.0 to 2.0.5; so I don't > think that would be a fruitful place to look. > 4) /tmp is a different file system from /usr, and I have always done > that (that is, in my 2.0 system, /tmp was a different file system.) Perhaps /tmp had the wrong group in 2.0. > I think the problem is the fchown() is being more aggressive at checking >in 2.0.5 than it did at 2.0 - possible more so than is correct. No. It was more agressive in 2.0. It is correct for it to report changes that can't be made as errors. Perhaps mv should be quieter about such changes. I think it should report uid and mode changes but not gid changes for the case here (moving by non-root from a sticky public dir) where it is known that preserving the gid is impossible. The uid may be lost for moves from a non-sticky public dir. The mode may be lost for moves of sticky dirs (e.g., by cp and mv fail to preserve the sticky bit when /tmp is `cp -pR'ed. This bug would have been more obvious if the mode was checked). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 16:33:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA04794 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:33:36 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA04786 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:33:34 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09991; Sat, 29 Jul 95 17:26:23 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507292326.AA09991@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: pthreads To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 17:26:23 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507292251.PAA23854@netcom20.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Jul 29, 95 03:51:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > While we're on the topic of threads, is there any work on getting > > > kernel level threads into bsd? > > > I think that this is a natural consequence of allowing kernel reentrancy > > in the SMP port... the kernel becomes internally preemption-safe. > > I think Marty Leisner is talking about multiple threads of > control in a single address space. If so, this can be > handled without kernel preemption. AFAIK kernel preemption > is really only required to handle realtime processes. Well, he said "kernel level threads". Unless you buy into the SVR4 definition, in which case a blocking operation will block the scheduling unit instead of becoming an async operation and a thread context switch. The SVR4 model has some serious drawbacks; if you do blocking calls in all your threads, you must have N kernel threads for N user threads. In general, there is little benefit to the SVR4 model other than causing people to program in a more event driven way (which could be argued) and a shared open file table and more complex signal and exception handling requirements. The Dynix "sfork()" interface provides the same functionality without adding silly restrictions on stack preallocation and scheduling quantum competition. > BTW, nice description of `priority inversion' w.r.t. > prioritized realtime processes on MP systems (in your other > message about Scheduling Algorithms). Why am I the only one who first found out about it from the IBM white paper? Does everyone else on the planet call it "priority inversion" instead of "priority lending"? 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 17:10:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA07054 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:10:28 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA07046 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:10:27 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA07970; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:10:07 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199507300010.RAA07970@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: pthreads To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bakul@netcom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507292326.AA09991@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 29, 95 05:26:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2488 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Kirk McKusic and co. had a discussion on this topic when I didi the BSD4.4 course at UCB.. they were of the opinion that with recent changes to the efficiency of forking, the answer was to create the new 'rfork' call, where a forking process can decide what resources it wants to share with it's child.. options include: text space data space, stacks, file descriptor tables etc. using this approach, how do you tell two processes that are sharing all resources from threads? I have tucked away someone's 'rfork' implimentation for NetBSD.. I hope one day to take it out and examine it better.. DavidG had some comments on the topic too.. > > > > > While we're on the topic of threads, is there any work on getting > > > > kernel level threads into bsd? > > > > > I think that this is a natural consequence of allowing kernel reentrancy > > > in the SMP port... the kernel becomes internally preemption-safe. > > > > I think Marty Leisner is talking about multiple threads of > > control in a single address space. If so, this can be > > handled without kernel preemption. AFAIK kernel preemption > > is really only required to handle realtime processes. > > Well, he said "kernel level threads". Unless you buy into the SVR4 > definition, in which case a blocking operation will block the > scheduling unit instead of becoming an async operation and a thread > context switch. > > The SVR4 model has some serious drawbacks; if you do blocking calls > in all your threads, you must have N kernel threads for N user > threads. > > In general, there is little benefit to the SVR4 model other than > causing people to program in a more event driven way (which could > be argued) and a shared open file table and more complex signal > and exception handling requirements. The Dynix "sfork()" interface > provides the same functionality without adding silly restrictions > on stack preallocation and scheduling quantum competition. > > > > BTW, nice description of `priority inversion' w.r.t. > > prioritized realtime processes on MP systems (in your other > > message about Scheduling Algorithms). > > Why am I the only one who first found out about it from the IBM white > paper? Does everyone else on the planet call it "priority inversion" > instead of "priority lending"? > > 8-(. as in priority inherritance? > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 17:46:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA08242 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:46:50 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA08236 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:46:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA02592 ; Sun, 30 Jul 1995 01:41:57 +0100 To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freefall not reachable In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:09:03 EDT." Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 01:41:56 +0100 Message-ID: <2590.807064916@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , Kim Culh an writes: >Tried to sup the latest -current but freefall is unreachable: I've just been ``talking'' to someone on-site at Walnut Creek, and it seems like they re-organised the machine room, which probably meant taking the T1 CSU/DSU, router, etc, etc, offline for the work to be done. Freefall was down for a while also. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 18:23:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA08942 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:23:53 -0700 Received: from kaiwan.kaiwan.com (kaiwan.kaiwan.com [198.178.203.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08931 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:23:03 -0700 Received: from exit.com (uucp@localhost) by kaiwan.kaiwan.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id SAA26522; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:22:35 -0700 *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** Received: (from frank@localhost) by exit.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA00835; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:15:46 -0700 From: Frank Mayhar Message-Id: <199507300115.SAA00835@exit.com> Subject: Re: pthreads To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, bakul@netcom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507300010.RAA07970@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jul 29, 95 05:10:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 680 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Kirk McKusic and co. had a discussion on this topic > when I didi the BSD4.4 course at UCB.. > they were of the opinion that with recent changes to the > efficiency of forking, the answer was to create the new > 'rfork' call, where a forking process can decide what resources it wants > to share with it's child.. > options include: > text space data space, stacks, file descriptor tables etc. This might be a good idea, but 'rfork' might not be such a good name for the call, since it connotes 'remote' rather than 'resource' and certain builders of distributed systems have already co-opted that system call name for a 'remote fork' facility. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 18:59:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA09642 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:59:42 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA09623 ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:59:38 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id DAA15997 ; Sun, 30 Jul 1995 03:59:36 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id DAA06300 ; Sun, 30 Jul 1995 03:59:35 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507300159.DAA06300@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Updated FAQ on WWW.FreeBSD.ORG To: doc@freebsd.org (FreeBSD's documentation list), hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 03:59:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: www@freebsd.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 343 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As John Fieber is on the move, I've put the updated FAQ in HTML in my home directory so everyone can check it at It will be put at the usual place soon I hope. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 19:16:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA10035 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:16:18 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA10029 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:16:15 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10428; Sat, 29 Jul 95 20:08:37 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507300208.AA10428@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: pthreads To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 20:08:27 MDT Cc: bakul@netcom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507300010.RAA07970@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jul 29, 95 05:10:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Kirk McKusic and co. had a discussion on this topic > when I didi the BSD4.4 course at UCB.. > they were of the opinion that with recent changes to the > efficiency of forking, the answer was to create the new > 'rfork' call, where a forking process can decide what resources it wants > to share with it's child.. > options include: > text space data space, stacks, file descriptor tables etc. Sequent has a call called "sfork", which I implemented in the UnixWare kernel using a proc structure change so you can set the inheritance flag. The point is to inhereit the per process open file table on a fork. There was code posted here to do that using a new sfork system call. Other than global context data (which is seperable in an application that was written to run in a threaded environment anyway), there is no reason to run in a threaded environment that supplies effectively nothing more than system call contexts, unless you like allocating your own limited stacks statically at thread start. Stack sharing is a dumb idea; if everything you mentioned was shared, then what you've invented is vfork without calling exec. That's already been invented. > using this approach, how do you tell two processes that are sharing > all resources from threads? If you can't tell two processes from two threads, then that is *exactly* the supporting argument *against* using threads instead of simply using processes instead. The implementation difference is that the pointer to your global data needs to point explicitly to shared memory (instead of implicitly). A tradeoff between "thread_create" startup code complication and "shmget" startup code complication. The other difference, which shows up only in an SMP environemnt, is that you can more easily independently schedule a process than a thread because of the mutex complications involved. The point of LWP on SunOS was to cause a process to consume as much of its scheduling quantum as it could possibly consume. Thus it avoids the process context switch overhead for as long as possible, which is something to avoid, especially since *that* is where you lose cache locality. The kernel thread implementation buys you minimal benefit in terms of TLB flushing over a full context switch (assuming the threads are otherwise incapable of differentiating themselves). You still eat the register set flushing (on SPARC) and the stack switch and the L1 cache invalidation, etc., etc. A minimal benefit for the added cost, and one that doesn't require that particular implementation to achieve. Where are kernel threads good? 1) As contexts for kernel level tasks and daemons; LFS's cleaner and the standard updated could benefit. So could the implementation of external pagers and CPU emulation for binary compatability. 2) To avoid crossing protection domains for system level daemons; this is a minimal benefit, since things like nfsd and biod have implemented this with alternate technology. 3) For SMP scalability ...*but* only when combined with some form of cooperative scheduling to user space sync-to-async conversions with the thread set internal scheduling. The real benefit is, and continues to be, avoidance of context switch overhead. The use of kernel threads to allow the user space threads to be scheduled on multiple CPU resources is *not* beneficial unless it is combined -- otherwise, you might as well be using seperate processes instead for all the good it will do you. Really, a general async mechanism would be the best "next step", with support for making *any* potentially blocking call into a call queue plus a context switch. This is relatively easy to implement at the system call and libc level. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 29 19:21:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA10245 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:21:34 -0700 Received: from netcom16.netcom.com (netcom16.netcom.com [192.100.81.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA10238 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:21:32 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom16.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id TAA01038; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:19:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199507300219.TAA01038@netcom16.netcom.com> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), Julian Elischer cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pthreads In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Jul 95 17:26:23 MDT." <9507292326.AA09991@cs.weber.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 19:19:38 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Well, he said "kernel level threads". Unless you buy into the SVR4 > definition, in which case a blocking operation will block the > scheduling unit instead of becoming an async operation and a thread > context switch. My definition of user level threads: - multiple threads/address space - they must be preemptable - they must be allowed to make blocking system calls - on a MP system they may run concurrently on more than one processor I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) this is what Marty Leisner had in mind because without kernel level threads you can't do all of the above. However, preemption in kernel mode is not required. > Why am I the only one who first found out about it from the IBM white > paper? Does everyone else on the planet call it "priority inversion" > instead of "priority lending"? Because `priority inversion', the problem, was described first. `priority lending', a solution to the problem, came later :-) Julian writes: > create the new > 'rfork' call, where a forking process can decide what resources it wants > to share with it's child.. I will note that Plan 9 has done this for a number of years. --bakul