From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 00:20:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA23264 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:20:34 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA23257 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:20:32 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id CAA16209; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 02:19:27 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511050819.CAA16209@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: ASUS SP3G/AHA-3940 (was Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 02:19:26 -0600 (CST) Cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <575.815558185@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 4, 95 11:56:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Yeah, riiiight. I was delighted to see this when I installed the latest > > SNAP: > > Not the *latest* snap you didn't, unless you're even faster on the > FTP transfers than we give you credit for.. :-) Only if I had a time machine. Your announcement arrived scant minutes after I hit "Send"... > This problem has already been widely commented on and is fixed in > 2.1.0-951104-SNAP I hadn't seen anything, I am sorry.. of course I was sorta busy with an upgrade nightmare scenario and I might have missed something. I made the foolish decision to upgrade news.sol.net to the ex-latest SNAP in order to pick up support for the AHA-3940, so I could recover two ISA SCSI controllers for better uses... I installed the SNAP on a blank drive and was up and running in about an hour and a half. It turned into a 36 hour nightmare at around the 18th hour, when that disk gave up the ghost and I suddenly started hitting roadblocks left and right trying to replace it. Reminder #1: It's Never Just A Simple Upgrade Reminder #2: Even If It Is, Something Will Go Wrong So. Everything else aside, I wonder if anybody out there knows: I am trying to use an ASUS PCI/I-SP3G motherboard with an AHA-3940. I do NOT understand the way PCI interrupts are being assigned! What I select in the BIOS setup seems to be just as often as not ignored... setting the slot to "14&15" doesn't get me anywhere, and as a matter of fact when I actually ended up with a "working" system, I had to set the IRQ to 10, FreeBSD reports the card as being on 11 and 9 (9 also being the built-in NCR controller!), etc. It almost seems as though the controller tries to pick its own interrupts, and has a tendency towards liking 11 and 12. I am quite afraid to breathe around the machine, for fear that some Magic Bits will change. I am at a total loss as to how one might add a second 3940... does anyone have any tips? Insight into PCI Interrupts? Etc.? By the way, the 3940 is a really slick controller - at least once you get it configured right. Thanks, ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 00:49:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA23868 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:49:51 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA23849 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:49:44 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA16318; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:49:40 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA11119; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:49:40 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA07873; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:38:11 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511050838.JAA07873@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Software to create CDROM filesystem? To: bob@luke.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:38:11 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511050443.WAA00401@luke.pmr.com> from "Bob Willcox" at Nov 4, 95 10:43:22 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 618 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bob Willcox wrote: > > Is there any software available to create a CDROM filesystem (with > the Rockridge extensions) for FreeBSD? I seem to recall a discussion > about this some time ago but can seem to remember where. man mkisofs Don't trust the word "optional" in the man page however. Start playing with the command until it stops dumping core with an ``assertion failed''. :-) I think it's basically "mkisofs -R -d -N -T -o outfile dirname". -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 00:50:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA23925 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:50:02 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA23906 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:49:58 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA16326 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:49:53 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA11123 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:49:52 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA07912 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:46:50 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511050846.JAA07912@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: More nits To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:46:49 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511050449.PAA27321@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 5, 95 03:19:48 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 669 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > > Just to point out that detaching userconfig() would be _very_ simple; if > anyone wants diffs to add a NOUSERCONFIG option I'll happily produce them. Nope, make it the other way round: options USERCONFIG, but we include the keyword into the default kernel config files. This is IMHO more consisten with current schemes. There's currently only one option that breaks this (NO_SCSI_SENSE). Coding like "#if !(!defined(NO_FOO) && defined(NO_BAR))" is harder to understand. ;-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 00:51:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA24056 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:51:27 -0800 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA24048 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:51:24 -0800 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.140) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 09:51 MET Received: by sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA19867; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:51:20 +0100 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9511050851.AA19867@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: Re: CD automount and things To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:51:19 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <25836.815495750@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 4, 95 06:35:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1039 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > That's another incompatibility with other systems. Why be > > incompatible when you can be flexible? > > I thought an optional keyword *was* the most flexible approach? > > No offense, but your solution looked a lot less clean that this > proposed change.. > > Jordan > only one small cosmetic idea - how about "opt" and not "optional" - because the fstab file will be very long (in the lines) and thus more unreadable - all the othere (or most of them) are only very short (rw, suid, ...) just'n idea - t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 00:56:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA24184 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:56:07 -0800 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA24178 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:56:04 -0800 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.140) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 09:56 MET Received: by sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA19879; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:56:01 +0100 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9511050856.AA19879@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:55:26 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199511020956.KAA25301@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 2, 95 10:56:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1384 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > > Should device drivers during boot time print messages of devices > > not foun d ? > > > > Well, it is useful to see if one of your devices is not > > found... and you're > not supposed to reboot that often (unless you > > run -CURRENT that is). > > > I don't buy that since at boot time all drivers print a message to the > > effect that the device was found and configuration information. > > I've been voting for hiding the ``not found'' messages behind the > "bootverbose" (boot -v) case long ago, but nobody seems to agree. :) > i agree with you - i think this should be the sense of a "-v" flag - normally you should'ne see what's missing (if it is something impotant you'll see it if something is'nt working :-) - but you shoud have a chance to look more careful at all the device probes (using boot -v) t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 01:14:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA24968 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 01:14:13 -0800 Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA24962 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 01:14:06 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA19502; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 03:13:42 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 03:13:45 -0600 To: davidg@Root.COM From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: More nits Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 11:48 PM 11/4/95, David Greenman wrote: >>> Just to point out that detaching userconfig() would be _very_ simple; if >>> anyone wants diffs to add a NOUSERCONFIG option I'll happily produce them. >> >>I'm reluctant to break things with 2.1 about to happen in about 4 days >>here (yes, really!). > > It should definately NOT go into 2.1. ...and by the time it matters for 2.2, >we may very well have a different framework entirely. Might I suggest that it could go WITH, not INTO, 2.1 as an "experimental" adjunct. I would hope that there will be enough of a freeze in the release source that someone like David could bring his source up to the release and generate a final set of diffs relative to that tree for inclusion with the release. Along those same lines, I would hope that the CD could contain enough of a framework to make it fairly easy to generate a custom kernel install floppy. It would be a big win if we could offer the ability to build custom floppies for unusual configurations (like those 4meg'ers that can't make it under the wire) or the atapi driver that doesn't quite make it into the release, but for which we might find a solution for certain machines. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 01:48:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA25956 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 01:48:04 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA25950 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 01:47:57 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 09:48 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA10493; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:29:36 +0100 Message-Id: <199511050929.KAA10493@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Graichen) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:29:36 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <9511050856.AA19879@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> from "Thomas Graichen" at Nov 5, 95 09:55:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1055 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thomas Graichen writes: > > > As Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > > > > Should device drivers during boot time print messages of devices > > > not foun d ? > > > > > > Well, it is useful to see if one of your devices is not > > > found... and you're > not supposed to reboot that often (unless you > > > run -CURRENT that is). > > > > > I don't buy that since at boot time all drivers print a message to the > > > effect that the device was found and configuration information. > > > > I've been voting for hiding the ``not found'' messages behind the > > "bootverbose" (boot -v) case long ago, but nobody seems to agree. :) > > > > i agree with you - i think this should be the sense of a "-v" flag - normally > you should'ne see what's missing (if it is something impotant you'll see it if > something is'nt working :-) - but you shoud have a chance to look more careful > at all the device probes (using boot -v) I'll go along with that. "Not found" also scares off people who don't realize that it's a normal state of affairs. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 01:49:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA26048 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 01:49:09 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA26040 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 01:49:06 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 09:48 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA10429; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:22:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199511050922.KAA10429@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Anyone got FreeBSD working a P6? To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:22:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Nov 4, 95 03:12:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 999 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jaye Mathisen writes: > > > I think this is specifically referring to running windows 3.x and win95. > Under NT, and other 32bit OS's, it looks like it rocks. We've ordered a > board to sample, I'm going to try NT on it first, then FreeBSD, so I > shoul dhave good news pretty quick. > > On Sat, 4 Nov 1995, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > Amancio Hasty Jr. writes: > > > > > > I was just reading comp.sys.intel and the 200Mhz P6's performance looks > > > really cool 8) > > > > Don't believe it. The magazines over here are full of the fact that > > it's a flop, since it takes forever to change from 32 to 16 bit mode > > and back again. > > > > > > Whatever that may mean :-) > > Greg Sorry, guys, this seems to have been taken seriously. Until I saw what Windows 95% was really like, I didn't understand the magazines, and I didn't realize just how much 16 bit code was still in the market leader's "Operating System". I wasn't trying to indicate that FreeBSD would be affected. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 01:49:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA26088 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 01:49:20 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA26072 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 01:49:16 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 09:48 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA10441; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:26:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199511050926.KAA10441@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: More nits To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:26:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511050449.PAA27321@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 5, 95 03:19:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1028 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > > Greg Lehey stands accused of saying: > > I'm not really bitching about this. I tend to agree that 4MB is too > > little memory for anything useful, but I still think it's worth > > drawing to people's attention that we *don't* want a System V, and > > that there are virtues in small, lean systems. And I agree that now > > that the config stuff is a permanent component of the kernel, it > > probably won't go away. All the more reason to bear the problems in > > mind before starting the project. > > Just to point out that detaching userconfig() would be _very_ simple; if > anyone wants diffs to add a NOUSERCONFIG option I'll happily produce them. Well, I think it would be a good idea if it's not too difficult. But I think the option should be USERCONFIG, not NOUSERCONFIG. I see this feature as a really valuable advantage when installing FreeBSD, and of not much use afterwards, so it makes more sense to add it as an option rather than offering the option of removing it again. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 02:00:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA26535 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 02:00:37 -0800 Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA26530 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 02:00:32 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA19572; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 04:00:24 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 04:00:25 -0600 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:13 AM 11/5/95, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >As part of my ongoing efforts [...] >8. Because I felt like it. The very best reason of all :-) >What still remains to be done for 2.1-RELEASE: > >1. I need to bring the new commerce distribution (which is now completed) > off my own machine and into the release distribution. This SNAP still > points to the 2.0.5 commercial dist. I'll probably also add a submenu > for the commercial distributions so that you don't have to load all of > the commercial demos to get just one of them. > >2. Unless I get substantial input on this in the next couple of days, the > "experimental" distribution will remain unchanged for 2.1. I got a > grand total of zero contributions for this in response to my last > solicitation for such contributions, so I guess there aren't any new > experimental bits! I may put a compressed copy of the 2.2-CURRENT > source tree on the CD for the Bold Adventurers among us, but that's > still under consideration. As unstable as -current has been, I would be inclined to discourage it. If it were to be there, I would suggest that as a minimum, you can do a "make world" for the system and boot the resulting system. >3. Any other truly critical things people may point out to me in the next > few days (hopefully none). We need to make a decision about support for this Release. In particular, I would like to suggest that an appropriate means of supporting patches would be CTM. Rather than encouraging users to poll the central site for changes, we would be able to have a mailing list to which the changes get automatically distributed. I bring this up now because such a service shuold be documented on the CD if it is going to exist. Collectively, we do have the resources to generate it, even if there is "no room at the inn" on freefall, etc. I'm sure that either Poul or Mark will soon get around to helping me set up the generation of the updates at either my site or in South Africa. _*_*_*_ Soapbox _*_*_*_ While I am on the topic of Release support. I suggest that the support for -stable be dropped. In its place, I look for support for FreeBSD 2.1. By avoiding designations that suddenly change out from under everyone, the transition is much cleaner. IMHO, only the development tree is an ongoing evolution. (And -current is a poor name for it.) I would suggest that if you are going to use -stable, -current, etc. labels, that the -current label might best describe the release under development/testing/shakeout. Thus... The "stable" release is one that is rock solid, but still supported. The "current" release is one that is somewhere in its evolution between "alpha" and post-"release". There might be times that "current" and "stable" are the same because the latest release is so good that it is declared stable, but the next release is not yet ready for release testing. If you concur with this naming approach, one way to get there is to cause the next split to carry the "bleeding edge" developers off the -current branch and into the -future, -development, -experimental, or whatever branch thus leaving -current to become a real release tree. _*_*_*_*_ Stepping down _*_*_*_*_ ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 02:33:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA27676 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 02:33:14 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA27670 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 02:33:07 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA32280; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:31:26 +1100 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:31:26 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511051031.VAA32280@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, grog@lemis.de Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > I've been voting for hiding the ``not found'' messages behind the >> > "bootverbose" (boot -v) case long ago, but nobody seems to agree. :) >> > >> >> i agree with you - i think this should be the sense of a "-v" flag - normally >> you should'ne see what's missing (if it is something impotant you'll see it if >> something is'nt working :-) - but you shoud have a chance to look more careful >> at all the device probes (using boot -v) >I'll go along with that. "Not found" also scares off people who don't >realize that it's a normal state of affairs. It's only normal (and not good) for GENERIC and other bloated kernels. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 03:01:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA28225 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 03:01:27 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA28219 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 03:01:23 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA01565; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 03:01:14 -0800 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 04:00:25 CST." Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 03:01:14 -0800 Message-ID: <1563.815569274@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We need to make a decision about support for this Release. In particular, I > would like > to suggest that an appropriate means of supporting patches would be CTM. > > Rather than encouraging users to poll the central site for changes, we > would be able to > have a mailing list to which the changes get automatically distributed. > I bring this up now because such a service shuold be documented on the CD > if it is > going to exist. No kidding. I have been so desperate to get some sort of working patch mechanism going (you wouldn't *believe* the number of requests I get for this from people who quite understandably just want to update their bits, not reinstall them from scratch) that I've even contemplated the resurrection of the *patch kit*! Surely we can do something better than that? > While I am on the topic of Release support. I suggest that the support for > -stable be dropped. Well, it's not something that actually requires "active support" to I don't see any particular reason not to continue making it available via sup, at least. As a point of fact, it's going to change so rarely (and minutely) in the post-2.1 timeframe that I don't expect it to be much more than a peripheral interest item for those very few who want to keep a close eye on how 2.1.1 (which will almost certainly occur) is coming along. As to the nomenclature, well, I'm not prepared to tilt at that particular windmill right now, as worthwhile a pursuit that might be (at least in the abstract). Technically speaking, it's not a big issue to keep -stable and -current alive. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 03:55:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA00330 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 03:55:03 -0800 Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA00304 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 03:54:54 -0800 Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (sendmail) id TAA28693 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:54:05 +0800 (WST) Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 5 Nov 1995 19:53:58 +0800 From: peter@haywire.dialix.com (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <47i8km$rvf$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: Subject: Re: [Q] Traceroute and source routing Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM (Jonathan M. Bresler) writes: > i want to exmaine the connectivity of various hosts (happen to be >those in australia on our mailing lists). i want to see route the >packets take from freefall to those hosts and the routes that exist from >one of those hosts to another. > so...i want a source route option on traceroute. > suggestions ?? pointers ?? code ?? Umm, there's an actively maintained group of 'enhanced' tools including ping and traceroute around somewhere. I have a recent copy of traceroute and ping, and it's traceroute definately does source routing. I wasn't able to test it though, because we (I :-) removed source routing support from all of our hosts... Hmm.. I guess I can test it on freefall now... :-) If it works for FreeBSD, I guess I could import it... (the only problem is that I seem to recall that it it uses 4-digit precision for RTT times, which DG's fingernails can't handle.. :-) -Peter >jmb >Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. >FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy >play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 >ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 04:18:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA01010 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 04:18:00 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA01005 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 04:17:57 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 12:18 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA11051; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:53:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199511051153.MAA11051@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:53:21 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511051031.VAA32280@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 5, 95 09:31:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 988 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > > >> > I've been voting for hiding the ``not found'' messages behind the > >> > "bootverbose" (boot -v) case long ago, but nobody seems to agree. :) > >> > > >> > >> i agree with you - i think this should be the sense of a "-v" flag - normally > >> you should'ne see what's missing (if it is something impotant you'll see it if > >> something is'nt working :-) - but you shoud have a chance to look more careful > >> at all the device probes (using boot -v) > > >I'll go along with that. "Not found" also scares off people who don't > >realize that it's a normal state of affairs. > > It's only normal (and not good) for GENERIC and other bloated kernels. Would you like to hazard a guess about what percentage of people really, *really* customize their kernels? Even if you do, you might need to keep things in that you don't have (I haven't found a clean way to remove CD-ROM support, for example). You're right, though, that doesn't make it good. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 04:19:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA01089 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 04:19:29 -0800 Received: from psychotic.communica.com.au (root@gw.communica.com.au [203.8.94.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA01084 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 04:19:25 -0800 Received: from communica.com.au (newton@frenzy [192.82.222.1]) by psychotic.communica.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05524; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 22:49:10 +1030 Received: by communica.com.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10855; Sun, 5 Nov 95 22:49:01 CDT From: newton@communica.com.au (Mark Newton) Message-Id: <9511051219.AA10855@communica.com.au> Subject: Re: [Q] Traceroute and source routing To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 22:49:01 +1030 (CST) Cc: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511050248.TAA12757@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 4, 95 07:48:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 760 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > so...i want a source route option on traceroute. > > I saw patches for this floating around somewhere... > Our ISP didn't support source routing at the router level (wonder why? 8-)) > so I didn't keep them. AARNet and connect.com.au (two of the major ISPs in Australia) both block source routing at their gateways too, meaning that a source-routed traceroute would never get packets into Australia anyway (meaning that the purpose the original poster requested it for would not be fulfilled). - mark --- Mark Newton Email: newton@communica.com.au Systems Engineer Phone: +61-8-373-2523 Communica Systems WWW: http://www.communica.com.au From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 04:47:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA01514 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 04:47:56 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA01509 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 04:47:53 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 12:48 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA12443; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:33:20 +0100 Message-Id: <199511051233.NAA12443@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: RPC oddities To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:33:19 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511041821.TAA02527@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 4, 95 07:21:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2114 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > includes definitions for several constants that are inside > enum's. To the contrary, #define's just the very same > constants. The result is that the compiler sees something like: > > enum auth_stat { > AUTH_OK=0, > > > 1 =1, > AUTH_REJECTEDCRED=2, > 3 =3, > AUTH_REJECTEDVERF=4, > 5 =5, > > > AUTH_INVALIDRESP=6, > AUTH_FAILED=7 > }; > > or even worse: > > enum clnt_stat { > RPC_SUCCESS=0, > > > RPC_CANTENCODEARGS=1, > RPC_CANTDECODERES=2, > RPC_CANTSEND=3, > RPC_CANTRECV=4, > RPC_TIMEDOUT=5, > > > RPC_VERSMISMATCH=6, > RPC_AUTHERROR=7, > 1 =8, > RPC_PROGVERSMISMATCH=9, > 3 =10, > ... > }; > > > What would be the correct way to resolve the conflicts? How about a series of: /* Authentication failures */ #undef AUTH_BADCRED 1 #undef AUTH_REJECTCRED 2 #undef AUTH_BADVERF 3 #undef AUTH_REJECTVERF 4 #undef AUTH_TOOWEAK 5 /* Give em wheaties */ If you're really paranoid, you could change that to #ifdef AUTH_BADCRED # if AUTH_BADCRED != 1 # error incorrect redefinition of AUTH_BADCRED #endif #undef AUTH_BADCRED #endif #ifdef AUTH_REJECTCRED # if AUTH_REJECTCRED != 2 # error incorrect redefinition of AUTH_REJECTCRED #endif #undef AUTH_REJECTCRED #endif #ifdef AUTH_BADVERF # if AUTH_BADVERF != 3 # error incorrect redefinition of AUTH_BADVERF #endif #undef AUTH_BADVERF #endif #ifdef AUTH_REJECTVERF # if AUTH_REJECTVERF != 4 # error incorrect redefinition of AUTH_REJECTVERF #endif #undef AUTH_REJECTVERF #endif #ifdef AUTH_TOOWEAK # if AUTH_TOOWEAK != 5 # error incorrect redefinition of AUTH_TOOWEAK #endif #undef AUTH_TOOWEAK #endif /* Give em wheaties */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 05:59:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA02463 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 05:59:53 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA02457 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 05:59:50 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA05773; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:54:28 +1100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:54:28 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511051354.AAA05773@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, grog@lemis.de Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >I'll go along with that. "Not found" also scares off people who don't >> >realize that it's a normal state of affairs. >> >> It's only normal (and not good) for GENERIC and other bloated kernels. >Would you like to hazard a guess about what percentage of people >really, *really* customize their kernels? Even if you do, you might Low. 20%? >need to keep things in that you don't have (I haven't found a clean >way to remove CD-ROM support, for example). You're right, though, >that doesn't make it good. I would at least disable the drivers for hardware that doesn't exist. This doesn't reduce the space bloat but it makes driver probes more reliable and turns "Not found" warnings into errors. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 06:29:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA02989 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 06:29:58 -0800 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA02984 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 06:29:55 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA00367; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:33:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199511051433.JAA00367@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Minor problem with SNAP install Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 09:32:59 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk There is no way to configure the tmp area from the install, so that install of Emacs fails unless root is huge or /var is a seperate file system. Can tmp area for pkg install be an option or something? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 07:18:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA03481 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 07:18:04 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA03473 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 07:17:55 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 15:18 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA12893; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:55:07 +0100 Message-Id: <199511051455.PAA12893@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:55:07 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511051354.AAA05773@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 6, 95 00:54:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1504 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > > >> >I'll go along with that. "Not found" also scares off people who don't > >> >realize that it's a normal state of affairs. > >> > >> It's only normal (and not good) for GENERIC and other bloated kernels. > > >Would you like to hazard a guess about what percentage of people > >really, *really* customize their kernels? Even if you do, you might > > Low. 20%? Well, I suppose it's a guess, but what do other people think? Remember, this is a group of people who *understand* the system. I'd guess that not more than 1% of the users out there rebuild their system, and those that do do it mainly because they have a problem with the generic kernel. > >need to keep things in that you don't have (I haven't found a clean > >way to remove CD-ROM support, for example). You're right, though, > >that doesn't make it good. > > I would at least disable the drivers for hardware that doesn't exist. > This doesn't reduce the space bloat but it makes driver probes more > reliable and turns "Not found" warnings into errors. Sure, but how? If I remove CD-ROM support for my dickless workstations, I get unresolved references from other modules which do need to stay. Sure, I could go in and throw in some #ifdefs--maybe. But that's going beyond a simple kernel rebuild. Or are you saying "keep CD-ROM support, but remove the drivers"? That might work--I haven't tried it, because I don't like playing trial and error, and I don't have time to analyse the sources. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 08:03:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA04937 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 08:03:01 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA04931 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 08:02:57 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA08360; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 02:58:19 +1100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 02:58:19 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511051558.CAA08360@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, grog@lemis.de Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >need to keep things in that you don't have (I haven't found a clean >> >way to remove CD-ROM support, for example). You're right, though, >> >that doesn't make it good. >> >> I would at least disable the drivers for hardware that doesn't exist. >> This doesn't reduce the space bloat but it makes driver probes more >> reliable and turns "Not found" warnings into errors. >Sure, but how? If I remove CD-ROM support for my dickless >workstations, I get unresolved references from other modules which do >need to stay. Sure, I could go in and throw in some #ifdefs--maybe. >But that's going beyond a simple kernel rebuild. I meant to just turn off the the driver enable flag at boot time. The cdrom support should already be correctly ifdefed. It's a bit harder to remove than most drivers because there is an option (ATAPI) for it as well as a driver (wcd0). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 08:29:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA05804 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 08:29:03 -0800 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA05799 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 08:28:59 -0800 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08527; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:23:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id LAA01207; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:23:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:23:34 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@cappuccino.eng.umd.edu To: Greg Lehey cc: Bruce Evans , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option In-Reply-To: <199511051153.MAA11051@allegro.lemis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, Greg Lehey wrote: > Bruce Evans writes: > > > > >> > I've been voting for hiding the ``not found'' messages behind the > > >> > "bootverbose" (boot -v) case long ago, but nobody seems to agree. :) > > >> > > > >> > > >> i agree with you - i think this should be the sense of a "-v" flag - normally > > >> you should'ne see what's missing (if it is something impotant you'll see it if > > >> something is'nt working :-) - but you shoud have a chance to look more careful > > >> at all the device probes (using boot -v) > > > > >I'll go along with that. "Not found" also scares off people who don't > > >realize that it's a normal state of affairs. > > > > It's only normal (and not good) for GENERIC and other bloated kernels. > > Would you like to hazard a guess about what percentage of people > really, *really* customize their kernels? Even if you do, you might > need to keep things in that you don't have (I haven't found a clean > way to remove CD-ROM support, for example). You're right, though, > that doesn't make it good. I might be wrong, but part of the reason I run FreeBSD instead of Linux is because the FreeBSD crowd seems uniformly more technical. I know this is a generalization, but I tend to equate Linux crowd == dos crowd == windows crowd. I think that folks would be surprised at how high this number is, not 90, but not 20 either. Maybe 40-60? > > Greg > > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 09:07:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA06676 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:07:03 -0800 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA06671 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:06:58 -0800 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tC8SI-000I1MC; Sun, 5 Nov 95 18:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0tC84k-00001PC; Sun, 5 Nov 95 17:37 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:37:41 +0100 (MET) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <1563.815569274@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 5, 95 03:01:14 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 343 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Jordan K. Hubbard: > their bits, not reinstall them from scratch) that I've even contemplated > the resurrection of the *patch kit*! Applause !!! hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 09:19:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA06939 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:19:12 -0800 Received: from vortex.sdf.luth.se (vortex.sdf.luth.se [130.239.144.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA06934 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:19:10 -0800 Received: from alkinoos.sdf.luth.se by vortex.sdf.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02782 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:21:13 +0100 Received: by alkinoos.sdf.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id SAA28387 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:23:31 +0100 Message-Id: <199511051723.SAA28387@alkinoos.sdf.luth.se> Subject: PPPD problem... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:23:30 +0100 (MET) From: "Karlsson Mattias" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 631 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello hackers! I have experienced a problem with pppd. Sometime's our FreeBSD firewall running 2.0-950412-SNAP get's unconnectable. Then someone has to go to the computer and reboot it. The syslog says: Oct 27 12:29:56 vortex /kernel: mb_map full Oct 27 12:29:57 vortex pppd[41]: input: Unknown protocol (2d) received! Oct 27 12:29:59 vortex last message repeated 4 times Oct 27 12:29:59 vortex pppd[41]: input: Unknown protocol (21) received! Oct 27 12:30:00 vortex pppd[41]: input: Unknown protocol (2f) received! pppd conntinues to complain until you reboot the computer. Is this fixable or fixed in a newer realease? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 09:44:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA07411 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:44:32 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA07405 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 09:44:28 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA01559; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:29:00 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:28:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R WARNING!! To: Joe Greco cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511050742.BAA16168@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > Yeah, riiiight. I was delighted to see this when I installed the latest > SNAP: > > Trying 204.95.172.243 ... > Connected to hummin.sol.net. > Escape character is '^]'. > ld.so failed: Undefined symbol "_encrypt_debug_mode" in telnetd:telnetd > Connection closed by foreign host. i get DURING a make world. once the make world has completed the problem disappears....so verify your shared libraries. hopefully thats where the problem lies. jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 10:09:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA07850 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:09:51 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA07842 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:09:40 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA24913; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:09:33 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA16578; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:09:32 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA08081; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:04:26 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511051804.TAA08081@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:04:26 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <561.815551994@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 4, 95 10:13:14 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 623 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 2. Unless I get substantial input on this in the next couple of days, the > "experimental" distribution will remain unchanged for 2.1. My wishlist for things from -current: . fsdb and quot . lint (assuming i'll get the FreeBSD patches in by tomorrow) . killall . scsiformat . i could provide a diff against RELENG_2_1_0 for the "od" driver (the hooks are already in the code, only the driver itself is missing) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 10:09:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA07862 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:09:53 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA07843 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:09:41 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA24909 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:09:31 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA16575 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:09:31 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA28347 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:51:44 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511051651.RAA28347@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:51:43 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511051031.VAA32280@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 5, 95 09:31:26 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 799 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > > >I'll go along with that. "Not found" also scares off people who don't > >realize that it's a normal state of affairs. > > It's only normal (and not good) for GENERIC and other bloated kernels. Yup. How to distinguish? Support for ``ident FOO'' ==> ``#define FOO'' has been dropped recently. So it's perhaps best to add ``options GENERIC_KERNEL'' instead? Uah, how many people would leave this one in their taylored config files... certainly the same as those who left ``ident GENERIC'' there. :) I really don't like the two dozen ``foo: not found at address ...'' messages for the installation kernel. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 10:10:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA08022 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:10:41 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA07988 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:10:32 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA24899 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:09:28 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA16571 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:09:27 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA25153 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:38:44 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511051638.RAA25153@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: CD automount and things To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:38:43 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9511050851.AA19867@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> from "Thomas Graichen" at Nov 5, 95 09:51:19 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 269 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Thomas Graichen wrote: > > only one small cosmetic idea - how about "opt" and not "optional" Agreed. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 10:11:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA08086 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:11:05 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA08080 ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:10:59 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA24974; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:10:47 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA16594; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:10:47 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA00830; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:09:00 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511051709.SAA00830@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: RPC oddities To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:09:00 +0100 (MET) Cc: dfr@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511051233.NAA12443@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Nov 5, 95 01:33:19 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 950 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > > includes definitions for several constants that are inside > > enum's. To the contrary, #define's just the very same > > constants. The result is that the compiler sees something like: > How about a series of: > > /* Authentication failures */ > #undef AUTH_BADCRED 1 > #undef AUTH_REJECTCRED 2 > #undef AUTH_BADVERF 3 > #undef AUTH_REJECTVERF 4 > #undef AUTH_TOOWEAK 5 /* Give em wheaties */ Yikes! That's exactly what i'm doing now. But this is a first class mess. Leave alone the poor appearance of the source code, but it does also make me nervous that the enum's and the #define's sometimes even disagree in their values! Somethin's stinkin' badly here! (I was in hope for the NFS wizards to shed some light on this.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 10:11:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA08132 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:11:30 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA08127 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:11:25 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA24970; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:10:46 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA16593; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:10:45 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA00337; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:05:23 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511051705.SAA00337@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: grog@lemis.de Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:05:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511051455.PAA12893@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Nov 5, 95 03:55:07 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 615 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > Sure, but how? If I remove CD-ROM support for my dickless > workstations, I get unresolved references from other modules which do > need to stay. Sure, I could go in and throw in some #ifdefs--maybe. > But that's going beyond a simple kernel rebuild. I don't understand which unresolved references you're getting. Perhaps you've by accident removed scsi adapter support, but tried to keep some higher-level scsi device in? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 10:44:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA08816 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:44:59 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA08811 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:44:57 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA16424; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:44:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199511051844.KAA16424@rah.star-gate.com> To: peter@haywire.dialix.com (Peter Wemm) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Q] Traceroute and source routing In-reply-to: Your message of "05 Nov 1995 19:53:58 +0800." <47i8km$rvf$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 10:44:40 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Peter Wemm said: > jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM (Jonathan M. Bresler) writes: > > > i want to exmaine the connectivity of various hosts (happen to be > >those in australia on our mailing lists). i want to see route the > >packets take from freefall to those hosts and the routes that exist from > >one of those hosts to another. > > > so...i want a source route option on traceroute. > > > suggestions ?? pointers ?? code ?? > Try snmp by querying each router along a path to find the route. This is assuming that the routers are running snmp. You can use the cmu snmp tools ported to FreeBSD. If memory does not fail me they are in the xperiment ports section. 204.188.121.17 is my ascend pipeline 50 ISDN router. rah# snmpwalk -v 1 204.188.121.17 public system system.sysDescr.0 = "Ascend Pipeline BRI S/N: 5090526 Software +4.4+" system.sysObjectID.0 = OID: enterprises.529.1.3 system.sysUpTime.0 = Timeticks: (12613500) 1 day, 11:02:15 system.sysContact.0 = "hasty@star-gate.com" system.sysName.0 = "star-gate.com" system.sysLocation.0 = "Bayside Village 408" system.sysServices.0 = 14 rah# snmpwalk -v 1 204.188.121.17 public . | grep -i hop ip.ipRouteTable.ipRouteEntry.ipRouteNextHop.0.0.0.0 = IpAddress: 204.188.119.2 ip.ipRouteTable.ipRouteEntry.ipRouteNextHop.127.0.0.1 = IpAddress: 127.0.0.1 ip.ipRouteTable.ipRouteEntry.ipRouteNextHop.204.188.119.0 = IpAddress: 204.188.119.2 ip.ipRouteTable.ipRouteEntry.ipRouteNextHop.204.188.121.0 = IpAddress: 204.188.121.17 ip.ipRouteTable.ipRouteEntry.ipRouteNextHop.204.188.121.17 = IpAddress: 204.188.121.17 Have fun, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 11:30:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA10120 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:30:26 -0800 Received: from mail.infinet.com (ns.infinet.com [198.30.154.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA10113 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:30:12 -0800 Received: from donna by mail.infinet.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0tCAhD-000KHrC; Sun, 5 Nov 95 14:25 EST Message-ID: <309BBF31.5A88@cylatech.com> Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 14:29:53 -0500 From: Wilson MacGyver X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b1J (Windows; I; 32bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone got FreeBSD working a P6? References: <15480.815528900@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Amancio Hasty Jr. writes: > Truly, the UNIX and UNIX clones may get a boost from the P6 because, > at least for awhile, they're going to be getting the most > bang-for-buck out of it. Once all those 16 bit legacy apps go 32 bit, > however, you'll see Windows regain the advantages it temporarily lost. > I don't think that the P6 will be a "flop" at all, at least not in the > longer term. Even Intel and Micrsoft knows this, both company are downplaying "Running Win 95" on P6. Both recommands NT instead. -- Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com -------------------------------------- Veni, Vidi, Concidi. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 12:48:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA14024 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:48:44 -0800 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (root@cats-po-1.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA14019 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:48:42 -0800 Received: from scruz.ucsc.edu by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id MAA17319; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:48:39 -0800 Received: from osprey by scruz.ucsc.edu id aa26955; 5 Nov 95 12:45 PST Received: (from markd@localhost) by Grizzly.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA05509; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:37:43 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:37:43 -0800 From: Mark Diekhans Message-Id: <199511052037.MAA05509@Grizzly.COM> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It appears (from looking at the code) that the floating point exception register is still broken in the latest SNAP. I bug reported this eons ago against 2.0, it generated a bit of discussion and I believe I got a response to the bug report saying it was fixed. This breaks pretty much any program that wants to get a status back from the floating point math functions instead of a core dump. Tcl is most notable, but it breaks several other packages as well. This program should not core dump: #include #include main () { printf ("acos (2.0) = %g\n", acos (2.0)); } Please fix this before releasing, its a big pain for us portable software maintainers. This patch fixed it for me: *** sys/i386/include/npx.h.ORG Tue Jan 17 21:51:47 1995 --- sys/i386/include/npx.h Sat Jan 21 12:56:44 1995 *************** *** 133,139 **** #define __INITIAL_NPXCW__ __iBCS_NPXCW__ #endif #else ! #define __INITIAL_NPXCW__ __BDE_NPXCW__ #endif #ifdef KERNEL --- 133,139 ---- #define __INITIAL_NPXCW__ __iBCS_NPXCW__ #endif #else ! #define __INITIAL_NPXCW__ __BETTER_BDE_NPXCW__ #endif #ifdef KERNEL From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 13:08:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA14504 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:08:59 -0800 Received: from kaiwan.kaiwan.com (4@kaiwan.kaiwan.com [198.178.203.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA14498 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:08:56 -0800 Received: from exit.com (uucp@localhost) by kaiwan.kaiwan.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id NAA26707 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:08:50 -0800 *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** Received: (from frank@localhost) by exit.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA04256 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:06:22 -0800 From: Frank Mayhar Message-Id: <199511052106.NAA04256@exit.com> Subject: Help with obscure UUCP problem? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:06:22 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2511 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk For various and sundry reasons, I'm trying to set up uucp to work over a TCP connection. Since my provider doesn't run a uucpd (although I've asked him to do so), I thought I would try to use telnet, instead. I set it up as a port of type 'pipe' with the command: /usr/bin/telnet -8 -E Well, it almost works. But not quite. It logs in successfully, and starts the UUCP handshake, but it shortly gets wedged and times out. I've looked at it closely, and I don't understand why. The debug output shows UUCP thinking it's sending stuff, and it sent stuff prior to the point of failure, but it suddenly stops, and I never see the data go out. Here is debug output and the corresponding tcpdump output: DEBUG: zget_uucp_cmd: Got "\020Shere=kaiwan\000" Login successful DEBUG: fsend_uucp_cmd: Sending "Sexit.com -Q30803 -R -N07" DEBUG: fconn_write: Writing 27 "\020Sexit.com -Q30803 -R -N07\000" DEBUG: zget_uucp_cmd: Got "\020ROKN07\000" DEBUG: zget_uucp_cmd: Got "\020PaijGgfte\000" DEBUG: fsend_uucp_cmd: Sending "Ui" DEBUG: fconn_write: Writing 4 "\020Ui\000" DEBUG: fistart: Sending SYNC packsize 4095 winsize 16 channels 7 DEBUG: fconn_io: Writing 14 "\007\000\0000\0044\017\377\020\007\354\346\203\252" DEBUG: fconn_io: Wrote 14 of 14, read 0 of 14682 DEBUG: fiwait_for_packet: Need 6 bytes DEBUG: fconn_read: Read 0 "" DEBUG: fistart: Sending SYNC packsize 4095 winsize 16 channels 7 fmayharppp.1877 > kaiwan.kaiwan.com.telnet: P 96:123(27) ack 1655 win 16384 [tos 0x10] kaiwan.kaiwan.com.telnet > fmayharppp.1877: . ack 123 win 4096 kaiwan.kaiwan.com.telnet > fmayharppp.1877: P 1655:1663(8) ack 123 win 4096 fmayharppp.1877 > kaiwan.kaiwan.com.telnet: . ack 1663 win 16384 [tos 0x10] kaiwan.kaiwan.com.telnet > fmayharppp.1877: P 1663:1674(11) ack 123 win 4096 fmayharppp.1877 > kaiwan.kaiwan.com.telnet: . ack 1674 win 16384 The 27 bytes of the Shere=kaiwan handshake got in, and the Shere=exit.com reply went out. Two more packets came in, and we tried to set the protocol to use, but that data never went out, and uucico eventually times out waiting for a reply that will never come. I don't know whether it's getting caught by telnet (although I don't know why it would) or whether it's getting buffered by the pipe. Uucico definitely thinks that it was written, but tcpdump never sees it go out. How big is the pipe buffer, and how do I turn off that buffering (if that is indeed the problem)? Any hints or suggestions would be much appreciated. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 13:45:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA15912 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:45:12 -0800 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA15905 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:45:08 -0800 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.140) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 22:45 MET Received: by sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA24082; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 22:44:59 +0100 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9511052144.AA24082@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: kernel source tree structure To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 22:44:59 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3514 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hello (ideas part 1) currently some people are working on ports of FreeBSD to other architectures (for instance alpha and powerpc) - for that reason - wouldn't it be good to think about the directory structure of the kernel-source-tree - i think the NetBSD source tree gives some good ideas to make it better for multiplatform-support and a cleaner concept at all (that is only my idea - maybe you don't think so or i'm totally wrong - but read on) - what are the differences: * NetBSD has the architecture specific parts of the code behind the dir's sys/arch/ARCHITECTURE (ARCHITECTURE may be i386 or alpha or ... - the same applies to all dirs which are arch-dependant like parts of sys/libkern -> sys/libkern/arch/ARCHITECTURE or gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld -> gnu/usr.bin/ld/arch/ARCHITECTURE/rtld - and so on ...) - this gives a clear separation between arch specific stuff and shared stuff - how about using this in FreeBSD too ? - i think it's an easy step (only some minor changes to the paths in some makefiles etc.) and would make the source-tree much clearer (sorry for my bad english) - one positiv point of this is that the compile dir (currently sys/compile) would be _inside_ the arch-specific part (sys/arch/ARCHITECTURE/compile) and you may compile and _keep_ kernels for different arches from the same source-tree ---> all in all this would be: - now: sys/i386 sys/compile sys/libkern - maybe: sys/arch/i386 sys/arch/i386/compile sys/arch/alpha sys/arch/alpha/compile ... and sys/libkern/arch/i386 sys/libkern/arch/alpha (the way it is done in NetBSD) ... or sys/libkern (maybe we can share something) sys/arch/i386/libkern sys/arch/alpha/libkern (another possible way) * in NetBSD all sharable device-driver code is generalized and put into the shared area - i think this would require more work than the first step - but would make it a lot easier to port to other architectures which are using for instance pci and scsi (in NetBSD also scsi is separeted) ---> all in all this would be: - now: sys/i386/isa - maybe: sys/i386/isa (for arch specific stuff) sys/dev/isa sys/dev/eisa sys/dev/pci (the way it is done in NetBSD) sys/scsi ... or sys/isa (another possible way) sys/eisa sys/pci sys/scsi * in NetBSD all "other-os-compatible-mode-code" is grouped together all made after the same sheme - all in one dir is a good idea i think because there are possible compat-options over multiple arches in the future (for instance COMPAT_LINUX an an alpha) ---> all in all this would be: - now: sys/i386/ibcs2 sys/i386/linux - maybe: sys/compat/ibcs2 sys/compat/linux sys/compat/netbsd (maybe - NetBSD currently has freebsd :-) that's all for now - just some ideas - please let me know what you think about them t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 13:46:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA15971 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:46:00 -0800 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA15960 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:45:54 -0800 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.140) with smtp id ; Sun, 5 Nov 95 22:45 MET Received: by sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA24092; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 22:45:34 +0100 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9511052145.AA24092@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: ideas from netbsd To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 22:45:34 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2249 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hello (part 2) i looked a bit into NetBSD and it's sources and got the following ideas: * one thing that looks very intersting is the ccd-driver (concatenated disk driver) - using this driver it is possible to realize disk-striping over multiple disks - serial (one after the other) or interleaved - it is configured into the kernel as a pseudo-device and then you may put together your striped disk(s) using the command ccdcontrol together with an optional /etc/ccd.conf - i think disk-striping is something wich is currently missing in FreeBSD - i looked a bit more into it and tried to adapt it to FreeBSD but it's my first try to do something deep in the kernel and thus i need someone who helps me - is there anybody interested ? - i've a test-machie here (2 identical 85 mbyte ide disks ready to be concatenated) - and i'm willing to help as much as i can (and to learn something more this way) * another thing is the COMPAT_FREEBSD option (... and code) - i think it would be a good idea to have something similar for NetBSD (COMPAT_NETBSD) in FreeBSD - i think it should be relatively easy to add (maybe i'm wrong) - if NetBSD 1.1 comes out (it's announced for november the 17th) i'll try how good it is and tell you more about it (the same for the ccd-driver) * i don't know how far the linux-emu currently is (i'll start CTM'ing -current in the next days) but i think it only works with linux-aout - but linux now is moving to linux-elf - and if i remember right - the NetBSD version of the linux-compat stuff also supports elf - maybe worth looking (but i think the one(s) who is (are) working on the linux-emu has done it ...) that's all for now - just some ideas - please let me know what you think about them t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 13:47:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA16071 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:47:39 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA16066 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:47:31 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA15439; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:44:48 +1100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:44:48 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511052144.IAA15439@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, markd@grizzly.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >It appears (from looking at the code) that the floating point exception >register is still broken in the latest SNAP. I bug reported this eons ago >against 2.0, it generated a bit of discussion and I believe I got a response >to the bug report saying it was fixed. This breaks pretty much any program Scheduled to be fixed. In 2.2 :-(. >that wants to get a status back from the floating point math functions instead >of a core dump. Tcl is most notable, but it breaks several other packages as >well. The tcl port has a patch to set the exception mask to ~0. >This program should not core dump: >#include >#include >main () >{ > printf ("acos (2.0) = %g\n", acos (2.0)); >} >Please fix this before releasing, its a big pain for us portable >software maintainers. This patch fixed it for me: >*** sys/i386/include/npx.h.ORG Tue Jan 17 21:51:47 1995 >--- sys/i386/include/npx.h Sat Jan 21 12:56:44 1995 >*************** >*** 133,139 **** > #define __INITIAL_NPXCW__ __iBCS_NPXCW__ > #endif > #else >! #define __INITIAL_NPXCW__ __BDE_NPXCW__ > #endif > > #ifdef KERNEL >--- 133,139 ---- > #define __INITIAL_NPXCW__ __iBCS_NPXCW__ > #endif > #else >! #define __INITIAL_NPXCW__ __BETTER_BDE_NPXCW__ > #endif > > #ifdef KERNEL This still fails for more-portable software that sets errno to 0 before calling every math function and checks for errno being ERANGE or EDOM after the call (this is the only error reporting mechanism guaranteed in ANSI C). You can fix this by changing CFLAGS in libc/msun/Makefile to the POSIX/ANSI setting recommended there (-D_POSIX_MODE), but then acos(2.0) will return a stupid value (0 instead of NaN). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 13:48:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA16141 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:48:55 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA16136 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:48:50 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20048; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:47:24 -0800 To: Robert Withrow cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Minor problem with SNAP install In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 09:32:59 EST." <199511051433.JAA00367@spooky.rwwa.com> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 13:47:23 -0800 Message-ID: <20046.815608043@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > There is no way to configure the tmp area from the install, > so that install of Emacs fails unless root is huge or > /var is a seperate file system. Can tmp area for pkg > install be an option or something? Foo, I forgot about this - you're right, of course! I'll do something about this. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 13:54:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA16349 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:54:33 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA16344 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:54:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20097; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:54:04 -0800 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 19:04:26 +0100." <199511051804.TAA08081@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 13:54:04 -0800 Message-ID: <20094.815608444@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > My wishlist for things from -current: > > . fsdb and quot > . lint (assuming i'll get the FreeBSD patches in by tomorrow) > . killall > . scsiformat > > . i could provide a diff against RELENG_2_1_0 for the "od" > driver (the hooks are already in the code, only the > driver itself is missing) Sorry, but while all of these things would be *nice*, they're not critical bug fixes and that's truly all we want to contemplate at this very very late stage! That's not to say that your wish list contains things that aren't perfectly reasonable things to want, but I'm sure you understand my position here.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 14:05:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA16750 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:05:21 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16743 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:05:16 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA05332; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:04:23 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511052204.OAA05332@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: More nits To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:04:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 5, 95 03:13:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1140 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > At 11:48 PM 11/4/95, David Greenman wrote: > Along those same lines, I would hope that the CD could contain enough of a > framework to make it fairly easy to generate a custom kernel install > floppy. It would be a big win if we could offer the ability to build custom > floppies for unusual configurations (like those 4meg'ers that can't make it > under the wire) or the atapi driver that doesn't quite make it into the > release, but for which we might find a solution for certain machines. I really think the cdrom should contain a 4MB boot disk there are several assumptions we can make that make this possible.. 1/ 4MB machines will almost definitly be IDE/ESDI ergo we don't need SCSI.. that's a LOT of space right there.. 2/ they are installing from cdrom or DOS.. or other non network system. ergo we don't need network stuff taking those out MUST make a kernel that can boot in 4MB.. don't tell me that it doesn't fit or it's too much work.. if we can't fit another floppy on the cdrom there's a problem.. We gotta give these guys a way of installing.... > > ---- > Richard Wackerbarth > rkw@dataplex.net > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 14:33:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA17763 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:33:23 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17755 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:33:19 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA05433; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:32:32 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511052232.OAA05433@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Graichen) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:32:32 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9511052145.AA24092@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> from "Thomas Graichen" at Nov 5, 95 10:45:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1069 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > (part 2) > > i looked a bit into NetBSD and it's sources and got the following > ideas: I've heard some grumbles about NetBSD's setup and we might do worse than asking them if there is anythign they might do differently if they were to be doing it again.. Failing that, I see no reason for us to be different from them, for no reason. We should also find out what BSDI have done > * one thing that looks very intersting is the ccd-driver (concatenated > disk driver) - using this driver it is possible to realize [..] talk to rgrimes@freebsd.org.. he played with this > > * another thing is the COMPAT_FREEBSD option (... and code) - i think > it would be a good idea to have something similar for NetBSD > (COMPAT_NETBSD) in FreeBSD - i think it should be relatively easy to > add (maybe i'm wrong) - if NetBSD 1.1 comes out (it's announced for > november the 17th) i'll try how good it is and tell you more about it > (the same for the ccd-driver) We really need someone who's main project is to catalogue the differences and help us pull together.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 14:48:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA18358 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:48:06 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA18351 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:48:04 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA05467; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:47:21 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511052247.OAA05467@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:47:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, markd@grizzly.com In-Reply-To: <199511052144.IAA15439@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 6, 95 08:44:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 571 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk but is it MORE broken than it is now to do this? surely such a simple change that might help some people is worth puting in now? > > This still fails for more-portable software that sets errno to 0 before > calling every math function and checks for errno being ERANGE or EDOM > after the call (this is the only error reporting mechanism guaranteed > in ANSI C). You can fix this by changing CFLAGS in libc/msun/Makefile > to the POSIX/ANSI setting recommended there (-D_POSIX_MODE), but then > acos(2.0) will return a stupid value (0 instead of NaN). > > Bruce > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 15:02:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA19151 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:02:30 -0800 Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA19141 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:02:23 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02485; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:02:09 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:02:10 -0600 To: Julian Elischer From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: More nits Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 4:04 PM 11/5/95, Julian Elischer wrote: In reply to my having written: >> Along those same lines, I would hope that the CD could contain enough of a >> framework to make it fairly easy to generate a custom kernel install >> floppy. It would be a big win if we could offer the ability to build custom >> floppies for unusual configurations (like those 4meg'ers that can't make it >> under the wire) or the atapi driver that doesn't quite make it into the >> release, but for which we might find a solution for certain machines. > >I really think the cdrom should contain a 4MB boot disk >there are several assumptions we can make that make this possible.. > >1/ 4MB machines will almost definitly be IDE/ESDI > ergo we don't need SCSI.. that's a LOT of space right there.. Agreed. Except for the possible exception of some unusual laptops, SCSI can be omitted. >2/ they are installing from cdrom or DOS.. or other non network system. > ergo we don't need network stuff Here, I take exception. There are a number of small systems that are entirely dependent on the network. The cd drive to which you speak is not on the target machine, but on another machine connected via the network. I certainly would not wish to make more that two or three floppies in order to get started. >taking those out MUST make a kernel that can boot in 4MB.. >don't tell me that it doesn't fit It doesn't fit ..... (in the schedule that is) >or it's too much work.. Sorry, but those who are making the decision have already said that it is. (And they are the ones doing the work) >if we can't fit another floppy on the cdrom there's a problem.. > >We gotta give these guys a way of installing.... I'd rather see us go back to a two floppy boot for this case. Strip the MFS out and put sysinstall on a floppy. Use that much to format the HD and then switch to it. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 15:13:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA20397 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:13:46 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA20378 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:13:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA20414; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:13:26 -0800 To: Thomas Graichen cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 22:45:34 +0100." <9511052145.AA24092@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 15:13:25 -0800 Message-ID: <20412.815613205@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > * one thing that looks very intersting is the ccd-driver (concatenated > disk driver) - using this driver it is possible to realize I think someone is already working on bringing this in? > * another thing is the COMPAT_FREEBSD option (... and code) - i think > it would be a good idea to have something similar for NetBSD > (COMPAT_NETBSD) in FreeBSD - i think it should be relatively easy to Uh. Why? :-) I believe the big reason for them having COMPAT_FREEBSD to run our packages, which is a perfectly reasonable thing. From the opposite point of view, I can't think of *any* applications (save AFS, which isn't even an app) that run only on NetBSD and aren't available in FreeBSD versions. Not arrogance, just a simple statement of fact. To add such an option without a clear reason why would simply be creeping featurism! > -current in the next days) but i think it only works with linux-aout - > but linux now is moving to linux-elf - and if i remember right - the > NetBSD version of the linux-compat stuff also supports elf - maybe > worth looking (but i think the one(s) who is (are) working on the > linux-emu has done it ...) Steven Wallace is already working on this.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 15:14:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA20572 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:14:29 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA20557 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:14:23 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA18574; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:10:54 +1100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:10:54 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511052310.KAA18574@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, markd@grizzly.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >but is it MORE broken than it is now to do this? >surely such a simple change that might help some people >is worth puting in now? I think the current behaviour (trapping) is more useful for most programs. Programs that can handle IEEE arithmetic should do something special to check and get it at confiuration time since it is not guaranteed. The change similar to mapping page 0 and putting 0's there so that strcmp("foo", NULL) works right. Surely such a simple change that might help some people is worth puting in now? ;-) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 15:18:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA21315 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:18:41 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA21305 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:18:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA20461 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:18:26 -0800 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Conference on Freely Redistributable Software Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 15:18:26 -0800 Message-ID: <20459.815613506@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI.. Anyone care to submit a paper? I'm not sure I'll be able to attend this one myself, though I'll certainly try. My calendar for January and February is already looking pretty full! --- From: peter@va.pubnix.com (Peter H. Salus) Subject: CFP - Conference on Redistributable Software Date: 5 Nov 1995 17:27:42 -0500 CALL FOR PAPERS First Conference on Freely Redistributable Software Sponsored by the Free Software Foundation 2-5 February 1996 Cambridge, MA Over the past 15 years, free and low-cost software has become ubiquitous. This conference will bring together implementors of several different types of freely redistributable software and publishers of such software (on various media). There will be tutorials and refereed papers, as well as keynotes by Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman The Conference will be held at the Cambridge Center Marriott, 2-5 February 1996. Papers are invited on any aspect of GNU, Linux, NetBSD, 386BSD, FreeBSD, expect, PERL, tcl/tk, and other tools for which the code is accessible and redistributable. Extended abstracts are due on or before Thursday, 30 November 1995. Authors will be notified no later than 8 December. Full papers will be due Thursday, 4 January 1996. Program committee: Peter H. Salus, chair Robert J. Chassell Chris Demetriou John Gilmore Marshall Kirk McKusick Rich Morin Eric S. Raymond Vernor Vinge Abstracts of 350-750 words (in troff, PostScript, or straight ASCII, only) should be sent to conf96@gnu.ai.mit.edu -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Peter H. Salus #3303 4 Longfellow Place Boston, MA 02114 +1 617 723 3092 ----------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 15:29:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA21971 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:29:40 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA21966 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:29:37 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA28983; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:03:38 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511052333.KAA28983@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: More nits To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:03:37 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511050846.JAA07912@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 5, 95 09:46:49 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1285 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > As Michael Smith wrote: > > > > Just to point out that detaching userconfig() would be _very_ simple; if > > anyone wants diffs to add a NOUSERCONFIG option I'll happily produce them. > > Nope, make it the other way round: options USERCONFIG, but we include > the keyword into the default kernel config files. This is IMHO more > consisten with current schemes. Ok, to implement this, bracket the entirety of /sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c with #ifdef USERCONFIG/#endif, and then apply this to /sys/i386/i386/machdep.c : --- /sys/i386/i386/machdep.c Thu Oct 26 00:18:46 1995 +++ ./machdep.c Mon Nov 6 10:01:10 1995 @@ -374,8 +374,10 @@ for (i = 1; i < ncallout; i++) callout[i-1].c_next = &callout[i]; +#ifdef USERCONFIG if (boothowto & RB_CONFIG) userconfig(); +#endif #ifdef BOUNCE_BUFFERS /* -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 15:33:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA22240 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:33:49 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA22235 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:33:47 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA20550; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:33:30 -0800 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More nits In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 17:02:10 CST." Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 15:33:30 -0800 Message-ID: <20548.815614410@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >taking those out MUST make a kernel that can boot in 4MB.. > >don't tell me that it doesn't fit > > It doesn't fit ..... (in the schedule that is) Which is what I just told Julian. This is NOT the time to bring this up again, just as it's NOT the time to start desperately hacking on the ATAPI CDROM driver. More than ample opportunity has been provided and I didn't see Julian working on this 3 weeks ago, when it would have actually counted for something. It's too late, I'm not putting any more work into 4MB installation and I've already lost far too much hair over it as it is. I've fired warning shots, I've made pleas, I've shaken a stick and none of it did any good when it really counted. I think Julian bringing this up now with such force is as inappropriate as it is unfair. He more than had his chance and he completely and utterly blew it. I won't be left holding the bag for this one! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 16:37:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA24632 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:37:55 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA24619 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:37:53 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA05762; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:37:15 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511060037.QAA05762@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: More nits To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:37:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20548.815614410@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 5, 95 03:33:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2251 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > >taking those out MUST make a kernel that can boot in 4MB.. > > >don't tell me that it doesn't fit > > > > It doesn't fit ..... (in the schedule that is) > > Which is what I just told Julian. This is NOT the time to bring this > up again, just as it's NOT the time to start desperately hacking on > the ATAPI CDROM driver. More than ample opportunity has been provided > and I didn't see Julian working on this 3 weeks ago, when it would > have actually counted for something. > > It's too late, I'm not putting any more work into 4MB installation and > I've already lost far too much hair over it as it is. I've fired > warning shots, I've made pleas, I've shaken a stick and none of it did > any good when it really counted. I think Julian bringing this up now > with such force is as inappropriate as it is unfair. He more than had > his chance and he completely and utterly blew it. I won't be left > holding the bag for this one! > > Jordan > jordan, I agree that it is late but a coupel of points: I'm trying DESPERATLY to finish off a project here at TFS I dont have time to UNDERSTAND that incredibly complicated set of make/shell scripts that makes the boot floppies. I know what needs to be done. I can probably do it but it's the SCRIPTS that defeat me.. I just don't have the hours of contiguous time it takes to figure out what goes on in there. It shouldn't be too hard to figure it out though if you already understand them (which I obviously don't as every time I've made suggestions it ends up that I didn't understand it and I was doing it backwards (or something)) I can make you a kernel as I'm sure you could with no scsi and no networking, (in about 10 minutes) but that's not the part I don't understand. ok, It's the weekend, And I'm inthe office trying to finish this stuff off but I guess I can try look again.. remember this disk doesn't have to be pretty or even complete.. it's for thos deperate enough to need it. maybe I'll make it availible via ftp or something.. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND why this obsession of yours with not producing a SUBSET disk that handles this case.. The single floppy is neat but more than one version isn't a bad idea.. oh well, my compile's finished.. must go.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 16:44:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA24988 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:44:31 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA24983 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:44:28 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA05807; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:43:56 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511060043.QAA05807@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Conference on Freely Redistributable Software To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:43:56 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20459.815613506@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 5, 95 03:18:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2215 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If I can get it going across my vacation, I think I could work up a paper on devfs... Also a paper on What's needed to get free Software into the corporate culture might be begging to be given (but not by me this time) Definitly a "Where FreeBSD is heading" is a MUST.... In a word "Dynamic" > > FYI.. Anyone care to submit a paper? I'm not sure I'll be able to > attend this one myself, though I'll certainly try. My calendar for > January and February is already looking pretty full! > > --- > From: peter@va.pubnix.com (Peter H. Salus) > Subject: CFP - Conference on Redistributable Software > Date: 5 Nov 1995 17:27:42 -0500 > > CALL FOR PAPERS > > First Conference on Freely Redistributable Software > > Sponsored by the Free Software Foundation > > 2-5 February 1996 > Cambridge, MA > > Over the past 15 years, free and low-cost software has become ubiquitous. > This conference will bring together implementors of several different types > of freely redistributable software and publishers of such software (on > various media). > > There will be tutorials and refereed papers, as well as keynotes by > Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman > > The Conference will be held at the Cambridge Center Marriott, > 2-5 February 1996. > > Papers are invited on any aspect of GNU, Linux, NetBSD, 386BSD, FreeBSD, > expect, PERL, tcl/tk, and other tools for which the code is accessible > and redistributable. > > Extended abstracts are due on or before Thursday, 30 November 1995. > > Authors will be notified no later than 8 December. > Full papers will be due Thursday, 4 January 1996. > > Program committee: > Peter H. Salus, chair > Robert J. Chassell > Chris Demetriou > John Gilmore > Marshall Kirk McKusick > Rich Morin > Eric S. Raymond > Vernor Vinge > > Abstracts of 350-750 words (in troff, PostScript, or straight ASCII, > only) should be sent to > conf96@gnu.ai.mit.edu > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Peter H. Salus #3303 4 Longfellow Place Boston, MA 02114 > +1 617 723 3092 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 16:49:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA25065 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:49:06 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25059 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:49:02 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA05819; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:48:35 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511060048.QAA05819@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: More nits To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:48:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 5, 95 05:02:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 463 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Here, I take exception. There are a number of small systems that are > entirely dependent on the network. The cd drive to which you speak is not > on the target machine, but on another machine connected via the network. I > certainly would not wish to make more that two or three floppies > in order to get started. most of those guys are not STUCK off the net with only a cdrom.. they can ftp one.. I'm worried about the guys with nothing but a cdrom. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 17:03:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA25290 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:03:21 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA25285 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:03:16 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA29338 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:37:26 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511060107.LAA29338@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Looking for Linux libs 8( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:37:25 +1030 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 555 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hiho people; I feel like a real fool 8) I'm trying to locate copies of the Linux libs libXt.so.6 and libX11.so.6 in ZMAGIC form, in order to get linux-IDL up and happening. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 17:27:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA25948 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:27:08 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA25943 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:27:03 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA02639; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:27:02 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA00321; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:24:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199511060124.RAA00321@corbin.Root.COM> To: Michael Smith cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More nits In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 95 10:03:37 +1030." <199511052333.KAA28983@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 17:24:22 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Nope, make it the other way round: options USERCONFIG, but we include >> the keyword into the default kernel config files. This is IMHO more >> consisten with current schemes. > >Ok, to implement this, bracket the entirety of /sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c >with #ifdef USERCONFIG/#endif, and then apply this to The "right" way to do this is to change file.i386 to indicate that userconfig.c is "optional" on the userconfig option, and then apply your suggested diff. This change is not going into 2.1, however. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 17:32:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA26070 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:32:57 -0800 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26065 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:32:47 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA03433 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 01:32:07 GMT To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Looking for Linux libs 8( In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 11:37:25 +1030." <199511060107.LAA29338@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 01:32:00 +0000 Message-ID: <3431.815621520@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote in message ID <199511060107.LAA29338@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>: > I'm trying to locate copies of the Linux libs libXt.so.6 and libX11.so.6 > in ZMAGIC form, in order to get linux-IDL up and happening. They were on the 2.0.5 CDROM (in the xperiment dist). That's where I got my copies. I can uue and mail them to you if you want. (N.B. Please DO NOT flood me with requests! I'm only on a modem line! Thanks) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 17:41:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA26229 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:41:32 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26224 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:41:29 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA29421; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:10:04 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511060140.MAA29421@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: More nits To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:10:04 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511060124.RAA00321@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Nov 5, 95 05:24:22 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 985 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman stands accused of saying: > >Ok, to implement this, bracket the entirety of /sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c > >with #ifdef USERCONFIG/#endif, and then apply this to > > The "right" way to do this is to change file.i386 to indicate that > userconfig.c is "optional" on the userconfig option, and then apply your > suggested diff. No problem; I wasn't aware that it could be done this way. > This change is not going into 2.1, however. I took that as read from Jordan's initial post; the diff was just for the edification of anyone wanting to make these changes for themselves. > -DG -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 17:42:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA26263 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:42:11 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26255 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:42:05 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA29432; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:12:29 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511060142.MAA29432@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Looking for Linux libs 8( To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:12:28 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3431.815621520@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Nov 6, 95 01:32:00 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 819 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer stands accused of saying: > > > I'm trying to locate copies of the Linux libs libXt.so.6 and libX11.so.6 > > in ZMAGIC form, in order to get linux-IDL up and happening. > > They were on the 2.0.5 CDROM (in the xperiment dist). That's where I > got my copies. I can uue and mail them to you if you want. I have the 2.0.5 CD, it has libXt.so.3 and libX11.so.3; I need .6 8( (I've tried symlinking without any success) > Gary -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 17:45:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA26398 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:45:02 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26386 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:44:59 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA21218; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:43:24 -0800 To: Julian Elischer cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More nits In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 16:37:15 PST." <199511060037.QAA05762@ref.tfs.com> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 17:43:24 -0800 Message-ID: <21216.815622204@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > maybe I'll make it availible via ftp or something.. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND > why this obsession of yours with not producing a SUBSET disk > that handles this case.. The single floppy It's not an obsession, it's an unwillingness to do more work! Surely you, in the IFS hell you're in, can understand that somebody might just resent the demands for additional work when they're already running flat out? I'm not asking YOU to do it, I'm simply asking that you not keep asking ME to do it! I like the idea of a single boot floppy but I'm not so in love with it that I'm holding up the show for that reason alone. It's more the simple fact that the single floppy worked in 2.0.5 and it represented the easiest transition from the 2.0.5 release tools to simply keep using it for 2.1. All the time I've had available to put into the install tools has been directed at making them work as well as possible for the most general cases, and I scarcely think that this was a misapplication of resources. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Within that context I most definitely *have* tried to make the 4MB case work, and I simply failed. Time has now run out and it's time to cut losses and go back to improving the general case installation! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 17:57:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA26605 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:57:41 -0800 Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26600 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:57:38 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA03070; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:53:41 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:53:59 -0600 To: davidg@Root.COM From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: More nits Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 7:24 PM 11/5/95, David Greenman wrote: >>Ok, to implement this, bracket the entirety of /sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c >>with #ifdef USERCONFIG/#endif, and then apply this to > > The "right" way to do this is to change file.i386 to indicate that >userconfig.c is "optional" on the userconfig option, and then apply your >suggested diff. > This change is not going into 2.1, however. Now, David. This "fix" addresses a very real problem of kernel bloat. A very quick search of the source tree will establish that it does not break anything. It is NOT any change in functionality (or code, for that matter) in your default case. IMHO, the "risk" of adding this to 2.1 is much lower than the risk of Jordan's "addressing" the inability to sysconfig /var. (Neither of which would worry me) Is there a double standard? ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 18:04:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA26752 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:04:26 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA26745 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:04:18 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA21578; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:03:53 -0800 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Conference on Freely Redistributable Software In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 16:43:56 PST." <199511060043.QAA05807@ref.tfs.com> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 18:03:53 -0800 Message-ID: <21576.815623433@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If I can get it going across my vacation, I think I could work up a paper on > devfs... That would be cool, thank you! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 18:08:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA26852 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:08:52 -0800 Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [140.174.23.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA26846 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:08:46 -0800 Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA00896; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:08:31 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:08:31 -0800 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199511060208.SAA00896@kithrup.com> To: graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> -current in the next days) but i think it only works with linux-aout - >> but linux now is moving to linux-elf - and if i remember right - the >> NetBSD version of the linux-compat stuff also supports elf - maybe >> worth looking (but i think the one(s) who is (are) working on the >> linux-emu has done it ...) The only reason I haven't done anything with my ELF code (which worked, last time I tried it) is because I haven't had time to port a dynamic linker or ABI libraries. (And, while I don't *need* ABI libraries, I do need an ELF dynamic linker.) I've tried to get someone who shall remain nameless (see how nice I am to you, Nate?) to work on porting the linux ibcs2/ABI library, but I don't know how far he's gotten. Sean. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 18:21:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA27478 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:21:57 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27472 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:21:53 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA21859; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:21:00 -0800 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More nits In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 19:53:59 CST." Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 18:21:00 -0800 Message-ID: <21857.815624460@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > IMHO, the "risk" of adding this to 2.1 is much lower than the risk of > Jordan's "addressing" the inability to sysconfig /var. (Neither of which > would worry me) Huh? Did I miss something? What's this about `sysconfig /var'? I don't even know what Richard is *talking about* here? I don't know about double standards, but this is certainly a case of double confusion! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 18:23:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA27585 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:23:37 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27580 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:23:34 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA21888; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:22:21 -0800 To: Michael Smith cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Looking for Linux libs 8( In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 12:12:28 +1030." <199511060142.MAA29432@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 18:22:21 -0800 Message-ID: <21886.815624541@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Gary Palmer stands accused of saying: > > > > > I'm trying to locate copies of the Linux libs libXt.so.6 and libX11.so.6 > > > in ZMAGIC form, in order to get linux-IDL up and happening. > > > > They were on the 2.0.5 CDROM (in the xperiment dist). That's where I > > got my copies. I can uue and mail them to you if you want. > > I have the 2.0.5 CD, it has libXt.so.3 and libX11.so.3; I need .6 8( > (I've tried symlinking without any success) This is weird because I just installed the linux_lib port from scratch on a new box (and it worked fine, after I added the build target for doing the mkdir -p ${PREFIX} and committed it) and I now have: root@time-> ls /compat/linux/lib ld.so libXaw.so.3 libXt.so.3.1.0 libgr.so.1 libm.so.4.5.26 libX11.so.3 libXaw.so.3.1.0 libc.so.4 libgr.so.1.3 libX11.so.3.1.0 libXt.so.3 libc.so.4.5.26 libm.so.4 Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 18:33:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA27805 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:33:59 -0800 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (root@cats-po-1.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27800 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:33:55 -0800 Received: from scruz.ucsc.edu by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id SAA16024; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:33:44 -0800 Received: from osprey by scruz.ucsc.edu id aa00663; 5 Nov 95 18:33 PST Received: (from markd@localhost) by Grizzly.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA06030; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:24:20 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:24:20 -0800 From: Mark Diekhans Message-Id: <199511060224.SAA06030@Grizzly.COM> To: bde@zeta.org.au CC: julian@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, markd@grizzly.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <199511052310.KAA18574@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:10:54 +1100) Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hey Bruce, >>but is it MORE broken than it is now to do this? >>surely such a simple change that might help some people >>is worth puting in now? > >I think the current behaviour (trapping) is more useful for >most programs. Programs that can handle IEEE arithmetic >should do something special to check and get it at confiuration >time since it is not guaranteed. Its incompatible with every Unix system I have access to. See enclosed table. No system core dumps! I don't have any standards handy, but SCO, which is X/Open, ANSI, and POSIX compatible sets errno and returns NaN. Most portable software checks errno, although the best approach is to check both errno and NaN. >The change similar to mapping page 0 and putting 0's there so >that strcmp("foo", NULL) works right. >Surely such a simple change that might help some people >is worth puting in now? ;-) I don't see this as being analogous. strcmp to NULL is an undefined, invalid operation. IMHO calling acos with an out of range operand is an error case akin to calling open with an invalid file name. The big difference between this and strcmp is that you can read a man page and find out the expected error respones. Sure, it would help some people to core dump if you couldn't open a file. It sure would be pain in the rear for us portable software writers that have to deal with this kind of incompatibility. Call some non-standard, FreeBSD only function (fpsetmask) to make the libraries behave as they do on other systems. >>that wants to get a status back from the floating point math functions instead >>of a core dump. Tcl is most notable, but it breaks several other packages as >>well. > >The tcl port has a patch to set the exception mask to ~0. The ports are very handy, but they are no substitute for compatibility. For instance, the ports don't have the lastest Tcl alpha. Elk is in there, but it doesn't have a patch to add the fpsetmask call. It just happens to not have as extensive a test suite as Tcl, but this breaks it. >This still fails for more-portable software that sets errno to 0 before >calling every math function and checks for errno being ERANGE or EDOM >after the call (this is the only error reporting mechanism guaranteed >in ANSI C). You can fix this by changing CFLAGS in libc/msun/Makefile >to the POSIX/ANSI setting recommended there (-D_POSIX_MODE), but then >acos(2.0) will return a stupid value (0 instead of NaN). Yes, I can change my system to work like others (I already have), its the problem of writing portable code for others that I am worried about. It seems pretty straight forward to modify k_standard.c to return NaN in POSIX_MODE. Making the modified POSIX mode the default, and changing the default FPU exception mask, would make the vast majority of the software out there happy. Just another PD software writer trying to help make FreeBSD a good target to port to (unlike Linux). Mark ---------------------------------------------- SCO 3.2v5: acos (2.0) = nan, errno = 33 ---------------------------------------------- BSDI 1.1: acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 0 ---------------------------------------------- HP-UX A.09.01: acos: DOMAIN error acos (2.0) = 0, errno = 33 ---------------------------------------------- IRIX 5.3 acos (2.0) = nan0x7fffffff, errno = 33 ---------------------------------------------- OSF/1 V3.0 acos (2.0) = 0, errno = 33 ---------------------------------------------- ULTRIX 4.3 acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 33 ---------------------------------------------- SunOS olden 4.1.3_U1 1 sun4c acos: DOMAIN error acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 33 ---------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 18:57:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA28018 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:57:32 -0800 Received: from yokogawa.co.jp (yhqfm.yokogawa.co.jp [202.33.29.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA28012 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:57:28 -0800 Received: from sjc.yokogawa.co.jp ([133.140.4.100]) by yokogawa.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb3/3.3Wb4-firewall:08/09/94) with SMTP id LAA08631 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:57:25 +0900 Received: from leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp by sjc.yokogawa.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA-R/GW) id AA20700; Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:57:24 JST Received: from cabbage by leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.8/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA/pa) id AA27046; Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:57:23 +0900 Received: by cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.6/3.3Wb) id AA10651; Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:56:33 +0900 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:56:33 +0900 From: Mihoko Tanaka Message-Id: <9511060256.AA10651@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How can I escape the Pentium's well-known bug ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, The well-known bug exists in Pentium, you know. In FreeBSD, can it be evaded ? Thank you in advance, -- Mihoko Tanaka From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 19:02:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA28235 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:02:42 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA28230 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:02:39 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... To: markd@grizzly.com (Mark Diekhans) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:02:33 -0800 (PST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, markd@grizzly.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199511060224.SAA06030@Grizzly.COM> from "Mark Diekhans" at Nov 5, 95 06:24:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4057 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk da-man speaks the truth bruce.. just because there is a BETTER solution doesn't mean we should have extra problems in 2.1 for no reason.... julian ~v > > > Hey Bruce, > > > > >>but is it MORE broken than it is now to do this? > >>surely such a simple change that might help some people > >>is worth puting in now? > > > >I think the current behaviour (trapping) is more useful for > >most programs. Programs that can handle IEEE arithmetic > >should do something special to check and get it at confiuration > >time since it is not guaranteed. > > Its incompatible with every Unix system I have access to. See enclosed table. > No system core dumps! I don't have any standards handy, but SCO, which > is X/Open, ANSI, and POSIX compatible sets errno and returns NaN. > > Most portable software checks errno, although the best approach is to check > both errno and NaN. > > >The change similar to mapping page 0 and putting 0's there so > >that strcmp("foo", NULL) works right. > >Surely such a simple change that might help some people > >is worth puting in now? ;-) > > I don't see this as being analogous. strcmp to NULL is an undefined, invalid > operation. IMHO calling acos with an out of range operand is an error case > akin to calling open with an invalid file name. The big difference between > this and strcmp is that you can read a man page and find out the expected > error respones. > Sure, it would help some people to core dump if you couldn't open a file. It > sure would be pain in the rear for us portable software writers that have to > deal with this kind of incompatibility. Call some non-standard, FreeBSD only > function (fpsetmask) to make the libraries behave as they do on other systems. > > > >>that wants to get a status back from the floating point math functions instead > >>of a core dump. Tcl is most notable, but it breaks several other packages as > >>well. > > > >The tcl port has a patch to set the exception mask to ~0. > > The ports are very handy, but they are no substitute for compatibility. > For instance, the ports don't have the lastest Tcl alpha. Elk is in > there, but it doesn't have a patch to add the fpsetmask call. It just > happens to not have as extensive a test suite as Tcl, but this breaks it. > > > >This still fails for more-portable software that sets errno to 0 before > >calling every math function and checks for errno being ERANGE or EDOM > >after the call (this is the only error reporting mechanism guaranteed > >in ANSI C). You can fix this by changing CFLAGS in libc/msun/Makefile > >to the POSIX/ANSI setting recommended there (-D_POSIX_MODE), but then > >acos(2.0) will return a stupid value (0 instead of NaN). > > Yes, I can change my system to work like others (I already have), its > the problem of writing portable code for others that I am worried about. > > It seems pretty straight forward to modify k_standard.c to return NaN > in POSIX_MODE. Making the modified POSIX mode the default, and changing the > default FPU exception mask, would make the vast majority of the software out > there happy. > > Just another PD software writer trying to help make FreeBSD a good target > to port to (unlike Linux). > > Mark > > ---------------------------------------------- > SCO 3.2v5: > acos (2.0) = nan, errno = 33 > ---------------------------------------------- > BSDI 1.1: > acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 0 > ---------------------------------------------- > HP-UX A.09.01: > acos: DOMAIN error > acos (2.0) = 0, errno = 33 > ---------------------------------------------- > IRIX 5.3 > acos (2.0) = nan0x7fffffff, errno = 33 > ---------------------------------------------- > OSF/1 V3.0 > acos (2.0) = 0, errno = 33 > ---------------------------------------------- > ULTRIX 4.3 > acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 33 > ---------------------------------------------- > SunOS olden 4.1.3_U1 1 sun4c > acos: DOMAIN error > acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 33 > ---------------------------------------------- > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 19:03:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA28277 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:03:02 -0800 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA28243 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:02:49 -0800 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA29951; Mon, 6 Nov 95 04:02:26 +0100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 04:02:26 +0100 Message-Id: <9511060302.AA29951@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511060107.LAA29338@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> (message from Michael Smith on Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:37:25 +1030 (CST)) Subject: Re: Looking for Linux libs 8( X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> Michael Smith writes: > Hiho people; I feel like a real fool 8) > I'm trying to locate copies of the Linux libs libXt.so.6 and libX11.so.6 > in ZMAGIC form, in order to get linux-IDL up and happening. They are part of the XFree 3.1.2 distribution. Look for X312lib.tgz at phoenix.doc.ic.ac.uk:/computing/operating-systems/Linux/sunsite.unc-mirror/X11/XFree86-3.1.2/a.out Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 19:28:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA29174 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:28:50 -0800 Received: from gandalf.me.ksu.edu (joed@gandalf.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA29169 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:28:46 -0800 Received: (from joed@localhost) by gandalf.me.ksu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) id VAA03946; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:28:05 -0600 From: Joe Diehl Message-Id: <199511060328.VAA03946@gandalf.me.ksu.edu> Subject: Re: How can I escape the Pentium's well-known bug ? To: m_tanaka@pa.yokogawa.co.jp, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:28:05 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <9511060256.AA10651@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> from "Mihoko Tanaka" at Nov 6, 95 11:56:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 324 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Mihoko Tanaka wrote: > > > Hi all, > > The well-known bug exists in Pentium, you know. > In FreeBSD, can it be evaded ? > > > Thank you in advance, > Call Intel and get a new processor... One without the well known bug. :-) --- Joe Diehl Engineering Computing Center Kansas State University From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 20:59:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA02534 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 20:59:48 -0800 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA02528 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 20:59:37 -0800 Received: from server.cs.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa21115; 5 Nov 95 23:59 EST Received: from viper.cs.Virginia.EDU (viper-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU) by uvacs.cs.virginia.edu (4.1/5.1.UVA) id AA06231; Sun, 5 Nov 95 23:59:34 EST Posted-Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:59:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by viper.cs.Virginia.EDU (5.x/SMI-2.0) id AA20451; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:59:33 -0500 From: bah6f@server.cs.virginia.edu Message-Id: <9511060459.AA20451@viper.cs.Virginia.EDU> Subject: Kernel modules To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:59:33 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok, my inaugural message on the hackers list, and its a doosey. As part of my masters research, I'm going to be working on multicast routing and doing some neato things with regulating traffic on the MBONE. FreeBSD (besides being my OS of choice) is the ideal candidate for the research because I've got sources and it runs the very latest stuff reliably. I'm doing CTM now, and I'm running -current. No problem. I noticed that the ip_mrouter stuff seems to be a loadable kernel module. I can't get it to compile, however: /sys/netinet/ip_mroute.c:2233: `ip_mrouter_cmd' undeclared (first use this function) Any ideas? Perhaps this is in the process of becoming an lkm? I noticed that recently /sys/netinet/ip_mroute.c was modified and checked in, suggesting that someone on the core team might be working in this file right now. It looks like that's where I'll be working, and I'd like to avoid stepping on toes. Perhaps the person(s) working in this area would be good enough to contact me so we don't clash? That's it for now, Paco -- Brian "Paco" Hope Research Assistant, Technical Support Staff email: paco@virginia.edu Department of Computer Science WWW: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~bah6f/ University of Virginia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 21:13:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA03420 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:13:15 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA03413 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:13:07 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA22783 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:12:57 -0800 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: netscape 2.0b2 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 21:12:57 -0800 Message-ID: <22781.815634777@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just had to say it - it's getting a lot nicer! They fixed every single bug I reported and have added a number of other nice features. Jordan-Bob says: Check it out! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 21:21:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA06557 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:21:30 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA06544 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:21:26 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA09731 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:21:16 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA22338 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:21:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA28002 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:58:14 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511052258.XAA28002@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Interesting feature To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:58:13 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1119 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I didn't know that our compatibility is that good. :-) Note: all this is on a fairly `normal' kernel, i.e., *no* Linux compat of either kind! j@uriah 812% file * ... klmtest: Linux/i386 demand-paged executable (QMAGIC) not stripped ... nlmtest: Linux/i386 demand-paged executable (QMAGIC) not stripped ... j@uriah 813% ./klmtest Bus error (core dumped) j@uriah 814% ./nlmtest Bus error (core dumped) j@uriah 815% gdb klmtest GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.13 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc... (gdb) run Starting program: /tmp/lockd-0.4/OLD/klmtest Program received signal SIGBUS, Bus error. 0x2c7c in __main () (gdb) up #1 0x2dad in __load_shared_libraries () (gdb) quit Hmm, is this a bug, or a feature? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 22:39:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA09836 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 22:39:46 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09829 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 22:39:42 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA00290; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:32:25 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511060632.GAA00290@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Looking for Linux libs 8( To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:32:25 +0000 () Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9511060302.AA29951@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> from "Jean-Marc Zucconi" at Nov 6, 95 04:02:26 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 956 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jean-Marc Zucconi stands accused of saying: > They are part of the XFree 3.1.2 distribution. Look for X312lib.tgz at > phoenix.doc.ic.ac.uk:/computing/operating-systems/Linux/sunsite.unc-mirror/X11/XFree86-3.1.2/a.out Thanks Jean-Marc, this has indeed solved the problem! (A hint to anyone working with linux emulation - if you get a strange error from an X-based program complaining about an unknown visual, and you are running a 16-bit display mode, go back to an 8-bit mode and try again. For some reason IDL (Motif?) thinks that 16bpp is 0bpp ... weird ) > Jean-Marc -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 23:00:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA10307 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:00:25 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10302 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:00:23 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA21419; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:00:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199511060700.XAA21419@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 21:12:57 PST." <22781.815634777@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 22:59:56 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Fascinating , while reading news with netscape I can't read the news's group name! comp...ix comp...cl or some shit like that.. Amancio >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > I just had to say it - it's getting a lot nicer! > > They fixed every single bug I reported and have added a number of > other nice features. > > Jordan-Bob says: Check it out! > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 23:19:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA10612 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:19:37 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10606 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:19:34 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA23351; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:19:08 -0800 To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 22:59:56 PST." <199511060700.XAA21419@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 23:19:08 -0800 Message-ID: <23349.815642348@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Fascinating , while reading news with netscape I can't read the > news's group name! comp...ix comp...cl or some shit like that.. Wait wait, that's one of the things they fixed! I was quite happy that they did so, too, since that was one of the things that really annoyed me about it as well.. See the new little "drag bars" in the title area. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 5 23:49:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA12227 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:49:50 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA12222 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:49:47 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA21740; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:49:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199511060749.XAA21740@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 23:19:08 PST." <23349.815642348@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 23:49:31 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cool , now I can use it ... For those who don't what we are talking about. The news group window on the left hand side has a section which titles the headings for instance unread , name, total so grab any of the title headings to expand on the column that you wish to be able to read. For instance, you can grab name and move to the left or to the right to be able to read the news group's name. Tnks! Amancio >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > Fascinating , while reading news with netscape I can't read the > > news's group name! comp...ix comp...cl or some shit like that.. > > Wait wait, that's one of the things they fixed! I was quite happy > that they did so, too, since that was one of the things that really > annoyed me about it as well.. See the new little "drag bars" in the > title area. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 00:05:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA12651 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:05:49 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA12642 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:05:47 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tCMYl-0003x4C; Mon, 6 Nov 95 00:05 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01544; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:00:02 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFD: VFS, non-Intel architectures In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 03 Nov 1995 11:33:01 PST." <199511031933.LAA28054@ref.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 00:00:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1542.815612401@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > now, now, poul, > I'm sure that DGB is giving you heartburn, but there is no need to > take it out on non-TFSns.. Well, I just timed out on Terry now. Happens once every two years... > diplomacy is one of the higher skills.. > I'll send Rita a baseball bat with "Diplomacy" written on it and she can > teach you about it whenever she feels in need of something American.. Hmm, I thought that "diplomacy" in USA meant "Send the Marines!" :-) (...'cause might makes right, until they've seen the light, got to be respected, all their rights proctected, 'till sombody we like can be elected! -- Tom Lehrer) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 00:28:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA13495 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:28:09 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13482 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:28:03 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA06163; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:23:29 +1100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:23:29 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511060823.TAA06163@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@TFS.COM, markd@grizzly.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >da-man speaks the truth bruce.. >just because there is a BETTER solution doesn't mean we should >have extra problems in 2.1 for no reason.... What extra problems? We'll have exactly the same problems as in all previous versions of 386BSD and FreeBSD. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 00:37:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA13770 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:37:50 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13765 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:37:47 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA23998; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:37:23 -0800 To: Bruce Evans cc: julian@TFS.COM, markd@grizzly.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 19:23:29 +1100." <199511060823.TAA06163@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 00:37:23 -0800 Message-ID: <23996.815647043@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >da-man speaks the truth bruce.. > >just because there is a BETTER solution doesn't mean we should > >have extra problems in 2.1 for no reason.... > > What extra problems? We'll have exactly the same problems as > in all previous versions of 386BSD and FreeBSD. > > Bruce I think that's kind of the point Mark's making.. :-) FWIW, I think the argument for "greater compatibility" should win out over all others anyway. If SCO, Linux, Unixware, Solaris and god-knows-what else all do it this way, then we're just being pig-headed not to follow precedent and in any comparison people might make, it won't be FreeBSD that's lauded for taking the idealist's stand that thrust it in a different direction. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 01:17:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA15970 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 01:17:38 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA15965 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 01:17:34 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Mon, 6 Nov 95 09:17 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA02745; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:12:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199511060912.KAA02745@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: RPC oddities To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:12:41 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511051709.SAA00830@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 5, 95 06:09:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1386 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > As Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > > includes definitions for several constants that are inside > > > enum's. To the contrary, #define's just the very same > > > constants. The result is that the compiler sees something like: > > > How about a series of: > > > > /* Authentication failures */ > > #undef AUTH_BADCRED 1 > > #undef AUTH_REJECTCRED 2 > > #undef AUTH_BADVERF 3 > > #undef AUTH_REJECTVERF 4 > > #undef AUTH_TOOWEAK 5 /* Give em wheaties */ > > Yikes! That's exactly what i'm doing now. But this is a first class > mess. Leave alone the poor appearance of the source code, but it does > also make me nervous that the enum's and the #define's sometimes even > disagree in their values! That was my second suggestion: #ifdef AUTH_BADCRED # if AUTH_BADCRED != 1 # error incorrect redefinition of AUTH_BADCRED #endif #undef AUTH_BADCRED #endif etc. > Somethin's stinkin' badly here! Well, it's not good, but it happens all over the place. Remember that enums are very recent in terms of acceptance (and the fact that they have global scope just makes things worse). The real problem is that the way system header files are made is in itself a complete mess. > (I was in hope for the NFS wizards to shed some light on this.) I'd be interested to see any good replies. I don't think that this is an NFS problem. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 01:58:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA18571 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 01:58:57 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18565 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 01:58:51 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA10166; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:47:43 +1100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:47:43 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511060947.UAA10166@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, markd@grizzly.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>I think the current behaviour (trapping) is more useful for >>most programs. Programs that can handle IEEE arithmetic >>should do something special to check and get it at confiuration >>time since it is not guaranteed. >Its incompatible with every Unix system I have access to. See enclosed table. >No system core dumps! I don't have any standards handy, but SCO, which >is X/Open, ANSI, and POSIX compatible sets errno and returns NaN. The ANSI standard says that math functions shall not cause any externally visible exceptions; for domain errors, errno shall be set to EDOM and an implementation-defined value shall be returned; for range errors, errno shall be set to ERANGE and a correctly signed +-HUGE_VAL shall be returned. What do these systems do for common application errors? E.g., /* 1. Overrun i387 stack. */ main() { int i; for (i = 0; i < 1000; ++i) foo(); } double foo() { return 0; } /* 2. Overflow. */ #include main() { double volatile d; d = pow(1e6, 1e6); d += d; d += d; } /* 3. Invalid operation. */ #include main() { double volatile d; d = pow(1e6, 1e6); d -= d; d -= d; } (I assume that HUGE_VAL is +Infinity...) Systems that use __IBCS_NPXCW__ for the default control word have to do extra work in the library functions so that the library functions don't trap. I think some of the i386 Unixes do this. >>The change similar to mapping page 0 and putting 0's there so >>that strcmp("foo", NULL) works right. >>Surely such a simple change that might help some people >>is worth puting in now? ;-) >I don't see this as being analogous. strcmp to NULL is an undefined, invalid >operation. IMHO calling acos with an out of range operand is an error case >akin to calling open with an invalid file name. The big difference between >this and strcmp is that you can read a man page and find out the expected >error respones. The problem is that the control word is global so changing it affects the behaviour of d += d and d-= d above as well as fixing the library functions. >It seems pretty straight forward to modify k_standard.c to return NaN >in POSIX_MODE. Making the modified POSIX mode the default, and changing the The correct value isn't passed to __kernel_standard() so one has to be invented. This is fairly easy for acos(|x|>1) because there is only one reasonable value (the default NaN). Other cases are more difficult. E.g., for pow(0, negative), the correct value is +HUGE_VAL for +0 and -HUGE_VAL for -0 but __kernel_standard always returns -HUGE_VAL. There are 19 different cases for the `IEEE' version of pow(), but only 6 cases for pow() in __kernel_standard(). >---------------------------------------------- >SCO 3.2v5: >acos (2.0) = nan, errno = 33 Correct. >---------------------------------------------- >BSDI 1.1: >acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 0 Wrong errno (from BSD libm?). >---------------------------------------------- >HP-UX A.09.01: >acos: DOMAIN error >acos (2.0) = 0, errno = 33 Bogus side effect (extra output). >---------------------------------------------- >IRIX 5.3 >acos (2.0) = nan0x7fffffff, errno = 33 >---------------------------------------------- >OSF/1 V3.0 >acos (2.0) = 0, errno = 33 >---------------------------------------------- >ULTRIX 4.3 >acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 33 Correct. >---------------------------------------------- >SunOS olden 4.1.3_U1 1 sun4c >acos: DOMAIN error >acos (2.0) = NaN, errno = 33 >---------------------------------------------- Bogus side effect. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 02:16:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA19268 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 02:16:57 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA19254 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 02:16:48 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA11226; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:11:28 +1100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:11:28 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511061011.VAA11226@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, julian@TFS.COM, julian@ref.tfs.com, markd@grizzly.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >FWIW, I think the argument for "greater compatibility" should win out >over all others anyway. If SCO, Linux, Unixware, Solaris and >god-knows-what else all do it this way, then we're just being >pig-headed not to follow precedent and in any comparison people might >make, it won't be FreeBSD that's lauded for taking the idealist's >stand that thrust it in a different direction. Er, we are following (i386) precedent (trapping on errors). The math libraries are just inconsistent with that precedent, and no one has has time or care enough to fix them. The precedent is somewhat braindamaged although it has its advantages, so the correct fix is not obvious. The idealist's stand is that everything uses IEEE arithmetic and that programs know enough about floating point arithmetic to check for errors in the few cases where the IEEE defaults aren't good enough. This has been the standard for a long time in non-i386 Unixes (especially Sun's). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 03:05:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA20728 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 03:05:40 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA20723 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 03:05:35 -0800 Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA02663; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:04:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Mihoko Tanaka cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How can I escape the Pentium's well-known bug ? In-Reply-To: <9511060256.AA10651@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The well-known bug exists in Pentium, you know. > In FreeBSD, can it be evaded ? which bug? If you mean the divide bug, just send in your pentium chip. ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 04:01:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA22425 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 04:01:45 -0800 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA22407 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 04:01:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199511061201.EAA22407@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 04:01:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511060749.XAA21740@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Nov 5, 95 11:49:31 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1352 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Amancio Hasty Jr. who wrote: > > Cool , now I can use it ... > > For those who don't what we are talking about. > The news group window on the left hand side has a section which > titles the headings for instance unread , name, total so grab any of > the title headings to expand on the column that you wish to be able > to read. For instance, you can grab name and move to the left or > to the right to be able to read the news group's name. > > Tnks! > Amancio Erhm, that worked in 2.0b1 as well, allthough you cannot see the "drag-handles" until you move your pointer over them... (took me some time to figure out though :) ) Is there something else they "fixed" :) > > >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > > Fascinating , while reading news with netscape I can't read the > > > news's group name! comp...ix comp...cl or some shit like that.. > > > > Wait wait, that's one of the things they fixed! I was quite happy > > that they did so, too, since that was one of the things that really > > annoyed me about it as well.. See the new little "drag bars" in the > > title area. > > > > Jordan > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 04:53:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA24337 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 04:53:16 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA24332 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 04:53:13 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA25877; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 04:53:01 -0800 To: ache@freefall.FreeBSD.org cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 04:53:00 -0800 Message-ID: <25875.815662380@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I thought the subject might get your attention.. :) Anyway, in all seriousness, I'm having a bit of trouble figuring this out and I could really use your (or anyone else's) help.. I will dive on this one tomorrow as soon as I wake up again (in 4 hours :-( ) and get back from some early appointments I have scheduled, but if you or someone else were to give it a look in the interim, I'd be most grateful. Anyway, on to the symptoms: One of the 1104 SNAP users reported that when he went to the new package menu in sysinstall, selected the "All" category and checked off a bunch of packages, it core dumped! Naturally concerned, I went to check it out and found some odd things.. First off, the package menu works by sucking in an INDEX file, parsing the fields and building a link list hierarchy of package categories and packages. If we're a menu of package categories (right now there's only one, at the very top) we use a normal menu to show them. If we're a menu of packages (e.g. inside a category) then we use a checklist menu to show which ones are selected. This generally works just great *unless you check off more than 10 items in a scrolling list menu*, then the dialog_checklist menu scrambles the stack! The code fragment in question is here: if (hasPackages) /* XX Point A XX */ rval = dialog_checklist(top->name, top->desc, -1, -1, n > MAX_MENU ? MAX_MENU : n, n, (unsigned char **)nitems, result); else /* It's a categories menu */ rval = dialog_menu(top->name, top->desc, -1, -1, n > MAX_MENU ? MAX_MENU : n, n, (unsigned char **)nitems, result, pos, scroll); /* XX Point B XX */ if (!rval && plist && strcmp(result, "UP")) { If you go into dialog_checklist() at point A and check off 10 items or less, you'll come out just fine. If you check off MORE than 10 items in the menu, at point B the stack will be spam and the values "plist" and "top" will point to garbage locations. As you might expect, I blow up pretty good right after this.. :-) I've traced this a fair bit and am pretty sure that it's not my code, especially since all my variables are happy *before* entry to dialog_checklist(), but not at all upon coming out. I've also checked the arguments (n, nitems, etc) and they all look just fine. Help? This kind of screws up the package installation menu! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 05:30:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA25028 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:30:26 -0800 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA25022 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:30:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199511061330.FAA25022@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: DIGIboard drivers anyone ??? To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:30:24 -0800 (PST) From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 332 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone's got any info on drivers for the DIGIboard line of multiport serial I/O boards ?? (Even vague pointers have interest) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 05:31:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA25060 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:31:02 -0800 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA25055 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:30:59 -0800 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA09192 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:16:59 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 6 Nov 95 16:16:59 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA01238; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:15:59 +0300 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org References: <25875.815662380@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <25875.815662380@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mon, 06 Nov 1995 04:53:00 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:15:59 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! Lines: 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 817 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <25875.815662380@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >This generally works just great *unless you check off more than 10 >items in a scrolling list menu*, then the dialog_checklist menu >scrambles the stack! Well, can you write very minimal example when this bug still shown and send it to me? Besides of it here thoughts so far: since checklist/menu mallocs all needed things dynamically, I suspect that some malloc memory corruption can be involved here. Maybe malloc with EXTRA_SANITY will helps too. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 05:38:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA25246 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:38:23 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA25241 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:38:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA26070; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:36:48 -0800 To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 16:15:59 +0300." Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 05:36:48 -0800 Message-ID: <26068.815665008@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, can you write very minimal example when this bug still shown > and send it to me? Besides of it here thoughts so far: I'm about to go to sleep (now it's only 3 hours away till wakeup! :( :( ) but I can when I wake up. Alternately, it's an easy thing to reproduce this with sysinstall itself! Just check out a copy of the *2.1* version of sysinstall, build it with debugging, and go to the configuration/package menu and select the "All" category. You'll see the problem quickly enough! > since checklist/menu mallocs all needed things dynamically, > I suspect that some malloc memory corruption can be involved here. > Maybe malloc with EXTRA_SANITY will helps too. This is in 2.1.. Poul-Henning's malloc isn't a factor here! :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 06:08:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA25818 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:08:17 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA25813 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:08:13 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id JAA29519; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:10:24 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA16785; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:10:22 +0500 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:10:22 +0500 Message-Id: <9511061410.AA16785.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Pentium BUG X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 180 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk A while ago, I read somewhere, a little test procedure that I could do to test and see if my Pentium had this 'well-known' bug. Does anyone know what this procedure is ??? Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 06:19:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA26218 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:19:50 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA26213 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:19:47 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tCSOY-0003vmC; Mon, 6 Nov 95 06:19 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA02125; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:19:28 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A.) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chernov, Black Mage) , hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 05:36:48 PST." <26068.815665008@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 15:19:28 +0100 Message-ID: <2123.815667568@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp > > since checklist/menu mallocs all needed things dynamically, > > I suspect that some malloc memory corruption can be involved here. > > Maybe malloc with EXTRA_SANITY will helps too. > > This is in 2.1.. Poul-Henning's malloc isn't a factor here! :( No, but it could help diagnose it maybe. Just add src/lib/libc/stdlib/malloc.c to the sources, and define EXTRA_SANITY somehow... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 06:21:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA26385 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:21:29 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA26377 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:21:23 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA19634; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 01:16:16 +1100 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 01:16:16 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511061416.BAA19634@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, sos@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DIGIboard drivers anyone ??? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Anyone's got any info on drivers for the DIGIboard line of >multiport serial I/O boards ?? >(Even vague pointers have interest) Does the man page (dgb.4) count? :-) The FreeBSD dgb driver is fairly new and unpolished. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 06:25:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA26626 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:25:03 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA26618 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:24:58 -0800 Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA07999; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:31:55 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199511061431.JAA07999@hda.com> Subject: ptolemy on FreeBSD To: john@jwlab.feith.com (John Wehle) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:31:54 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511050444.XAA12387@jwlab.FEITH.COM> from "John Wehle" at Nov 4, 95 11:44:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 866 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > In attempting to port ptolemy 0.5.2 to the FreeBSD 2.1 platform > I noticed that minmax.h is missing from /usr/include/g++. > Given that this file is a standard part of the GNU libg++ > distribution I'm surprised that it isn't included in FreeBSD 2.1. > > Is this deliberate or just an oops? John (and anyone else interested in ptolemy) - I have all the diffs to get ptolemy up and running and then not quite working. Some demos work and others fail with an IPC error. Contact me and I'll send them to you - I had time to try the port but not time to debug the result when it didn't work. I'm real interested in seeing it work, and I think at least Jonathan Bresle has some interest also. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 06:51:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA27160 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:51:58 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA27155 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:51:54 -0800 Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA03417; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:49:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:49:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Jerry Kendall cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pentium BUG In-Reply-To: <9511061410.AA16785.gonzo@vmicls.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk #include double C; main() { float i = 24; double D = 1.0; C = 824633702449.0; /* C = 824633702457.0; */ printf("%.70f\n",C); printf("%.70f\n",(C)/(C)); printf("%.70f\n",1.0/(1.0/C)); printf("%.70f\n",(1.0/C)*C); printf("i %f i/1.5 %f \n", i, i/1.5); } From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 07:04:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA27563 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:04:17 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA27502 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:02:40 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA00307; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:01:46 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA16040; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:19:44 -0600 Message-Id: <199511061519.JAA16040@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, erich@lodgenet.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/emulators/linux_lib - Imported sources In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 03 Nov 1995 16:05:50 PST." <24705.815443550@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 09:19:43 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <24705.815443550@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> Here's my cliff notes on setting up linux compat: > >Where are you getting a ZMAGIC version of ld.so from? I can >only find the QMAGIC version in the slackware distribution? :( > >From a local linux machine, that's running a pretty archaic slackware dist. I've scoured the net for older linux libs to no avail. I figured that since this is all going on the CD, it would be ok for now, but I think in the long term, the linux emulation should be able to handle QMAGIC binaries (and shlibs), and the linux_lib port should be fixed accordingly. The full set of libs that I'm using is tar'ed up and sitting on freefall in /usr/ports/distfiles. > Jordan > -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 07:09:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA27676 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:09:12 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA27668 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:08:56 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA07799; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:08:27 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA25605; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:08:26 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA20598; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:54:27 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511061354.OAA20598@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Help with obscure UUCP problem? To: frank@exit.com (Frank Mayhar) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:54:26 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511052106.NAA04256@exit.com> from "Frank Mayhar" at Nov 5, 95 01:06:22 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 394 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Frank Mayhar wrote: > > but tcpdump never sees it go out. How big is the pipe buffer, and how do I > turn off that buffering (if that is indeed the problem)? I believe the pipe buffer is 512 bytes, and you cannot turn it off. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 07:09:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA27696 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:09:18 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA27660 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:08:36 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA07777; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:08:17 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA25598; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:08:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA20403; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:29:38 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511061329.OAA20403@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:29:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <20094.815608444@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 5, 95 01:54:04 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 394 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > My wishlist for things from -current: > Sorry, but while all of these things would be *nice*, they're not > critical bug fixes... Ooops, you misunderstood: this was my wishlist for /exerimental! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 07:20:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA28178 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:20:11 -0800 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user32.lightside.com [198.81.209.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA28170 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:20:06 -0800 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA00297; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:20:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:20:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-Reply-To: <22781.815634777@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I just had to say it - it's getting a lot nicer! > > They fixed every single bug I reported and have added a number of > other nice features. > > Jordan-Bob says: Check it out! > > Jordan > > Still no Java support for FreeBSD :-( But if most of the annoying bugs have been exterminated, then I think I'll start using it again (I went back to 1.1 after a brief look at 2.0b1). Any news on future Java support in the BSDI/FreeBSD version, Jordan? Too bad their FTP servers get SO busy after a new release, I can't seem to get in right now... :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 07:27:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA28354 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:27:37 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA28348 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:27:32 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Mon, 6 Nov 95 15:24 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA13791; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:00:28 +0100 Message-Id: <199511061500.QAA13791@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:00:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <20412.815613205@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 5, 95 03:13:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 985 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > * another thing is the COMPAT_FREEBSD option (... and code) - i think > > it would be a good idea to have something similar for NetBSD > > (COMPAT_NETBSD) in FreeBSD - i think it should be relatively easy to > > Uh. Why? :-) > > I believe the big reason for them having COMPAT_FREEBSD to run our > packages, which is a perfectly reasonable thing. From the opposite > point of view, I can't think of *any* applications (save AFS, which > isn't even an app) that run only on NetBSD and aren't available in > FreeBSD versions. That may be true most of the time, but consider my situation. I have machines running both BSD/386 and FreeBSD, and the software is compatible enough that I normally don't need two copies of everything. It would be nice to retain the compatibility, and it shouldn't be too hard. That doesn't mean I want a COMPAT_NETBSD and a COMPAT_BSDOS--just that somehow people should arrange to stay as compatible as possible. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 07:27:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA28372 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:27:42 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA28362 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:27:39 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Mon, 6 Nov 95 15:24 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA13808 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:02:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199511061502.QAA13808@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:56:49 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199511052232.OAA05433@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 5, 95 02:32:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1052 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > > (part 2) > > > > i looked a bit into NetBSD and it's sources and got the following > > ideas: > > I've heard some grumbles about NetBSD's setup and we might do worse than > asking them if there is anythign they might do differently if they were > to be doing it again.. Failing that, I see no reason for us to be > different from them, for no reason. > > We should also find out what BSDI have done I use BSDI in a network with FreeBSD. What do you want to know? How setup works? It's much more primitive (no menus or that sort of thing), but it does much of the same sort of thing as FreeBSD setup. The biggest difference is how the distributions are extracted: they divide the total distribution into about 25 smaller distributions and give you a sort of text menu in which you can select which distributions you want. Another nice thing is that, at plenty of points in the setup procedure, it offers you the opportunity of dropping into a shell and having a look at what's going on behind the scenes. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 07:47:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA29067 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:47:17 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA29058 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:47:11 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA12787 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:46:03 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 6 Nov 95 18:46:02 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA00536; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:42:23 +0300 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org References: <26068.815665008@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <26068.815665008@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mon, 06 Nov 1995 05:36:48 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:42:23 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! Lines: 27 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1326 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <26068.815665008@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >Just check out a copy of the *2.1* version of sysinstall, build it >with debugging, and go to the configuration/package menu and select >the "All" category. You'll see the problem quickly enough! I can't compile 2.1 sysinstall into -current, here showstopper: cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -Wall -I/usr/src/release/sys2.1/../libdisk -I/usr/src/release/sys2.1/../../gnu/lib/libdialog -DEXTRA_SANITY -c disks.c disks.c: In function `scriptPartition': disks.c:165: too many arguments to function `All_FreeBSD' disks.c:171: too many arguments to function `All_FreeBSD' disks.c: In function `diskPartition': disks.c:329: too many arguments to function `All_FreeBSD' disks.c:428: `CHUNK_FORCE_ALL' undeclared (first use this function) disks.c:428: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once disks.c:428: for each function it appears in.) disks.c:259: warning: `mbrContents' might be used uninitialized in this function *** Error code 1 Stop. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 07:54:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA29436 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:54:45 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA29423 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:54:35 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.28.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Mon, 6 Nov 95 15:54 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA13888; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:34:48 +0100 Message-Id: <199511061534.QAA13888@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: More nits To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:34:47 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511052204.OAA05332@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 5, 95 02:04:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2421 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > > At 11:48 PM 11/4/95, David Greenman wrote: > > Along those same lines, I would hope that the CD could contain enough of a > > framework to make it fairly easy to generate a custom kernel install > > floppy. It would be a big win if we could offer the ability to build custom > > floppies for unusual configurations (like those 4meg'ers that can't make it > > under the wire) or the atapi driver that doesn't quite make it into the > > release, but for which we might find a solution for certain machines. > > I really think the cdrom should contain a 4MB boot disk > there are several assumptions we can make that make this possible.. > > 1/ 4MB machines will almost definitly be IDE/ESDI > ergo we don't need SCSI.. that's a LOT of space right there.. > 2/ they are installing from cdrom or DOS.. or other non network system. > ergo we don't need network stuff I don't think that this is a valid assumption. My machine may be so primitive that it doesn't even have a CD-ROM. Of course, if it's on a network, there may be other solutions open to it. > taking those out MUST make a kernel that can boot in 4MB.. > don't tell me that it doesn't fit or it's too much work.. > if we can't fit another floppy on the cdrom there's a problem.. I've learned a number of things about kernel size over the last few days: 1. We have stuff like config in there which must take up quite a bit of space. 2. We have 1 MB MFS in there. Is that really all needed? BSDI manages an uncompressed boot disk without any required MFS. 3. At least on the machines I was using (some Siemens-Nixdorf "brand name" junk), FreeBSD indicated that it hadn't reclaimed the BIOS's 384 kB. BSD/OS did, so this isn't a matter of "the machine won't let me". I think that we need to look at these areas *if* we want to run in 4MB. And I think we do--it's a bit of a status thing ("Linux runs in 4 MB - good. Windows 95% doesn't - bad. FreeBSD doesn't either - bad."). > We gotta give these guys a way of installing.... One thing we need to make very sure is that these kernels aren't somewhere where they could be mistaken for the standard distribution. Those of you who've installed Linux will know what a pain it is to try to figure out which 2 disk images to use. If we supply supplementary kernels we need to hide them in a subdirectory clearly marked "emergency only". Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 08:09:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA29959 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:09:57 -0800 Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA29953 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:09:53 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA04970; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:09:34 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:09:45 -0600 To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: More nits Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 9:51 AM 11/6/95, Greg Lehey wrote: >Richard Wackerbarth writes: >> >> >We gotta give these guys a way of installing.... >> >> I'd rather see us go back to a two floppy boot for this case. >> Strip the MFS out and put sysinstall on a floppy. >> >> Use that much to format the HD and then switch to it. > >Great idea. That way we don't need hundreds of different tiny >kernels. Any chance of getting it done for 2.1? As far as the number of "tiny kernels", I am not sure that even this idea would solve the problem. However, I know that it will be much easier to make the required kernel if it is the only file on the floppy and I don't have to remake the rest of the system to do the custom bootstrap. As for 2.1, I am sure it is too late for 2.1.0-RELEASE, but I see no reason why it could not go into -stable immediately thereafter. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 08:10:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA00134 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:10:38 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA00125 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:10:35 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tCU7t-0003vkC; Mon, 6 Nov 95 08:10 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA03830 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:10:23 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PCMCIA donations/loans... Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 17:10:16 +0100 Message-ID: <3828.815674216@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm about to embark on the last leg of the quest to decent PCMCIA support. Thanks to Andrew McRae we have the framework, now we just need to handle all the bits correctly. This is relatively trivial, if it werent for the fact that nobody does things the same way as anybody else in the PCMCIA business. My problem right now is that I only have two cards to test with, a modem card and an ethernet card. Personally, I don't need more than those two cards, but they have already proven to be far to unrepresentative of the cards on the market to be of any significant value as a test base for our code. If you have any PCMCIA cards lying around that you don't use, I'd be very happy if you would donate them to the FreeBSD project to form a test collection for the PCMCIA code. This collection of cards will remain in custody of the FreeBSD project, one way or another, so that we have a means for regression testing. Donors will of course be listed in the "FreeBSD HW contributors" list. (Of course if you have a particular card you are ancious to see supported, this is also a very good way to make it more likely to happen :-) If you cannot spare the card permanently, I may still be interested in borrowing it for a period for testing. Please contact: phk@FreeBSD.org Thanks in advance! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 08:19:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA00585 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:19:54 -0800 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (root@cats-po-1.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA00579 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:19:52 -0800 Received: from scruz.ucsc.edu by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id IAA04577; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:19:35 -0800 Received: from osprey by scruz.ucsc.edu id aa08219; 6 Nov 95 8:17 PST Received: (from markd@localhost) by Grizzly.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA08229; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:09:20 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:09:20 -0800 From: Mark Diekhans Message-Id: <199511061609.IAA08229@Grizzly.COM> To: bde@zeta.org.au CC: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com In-reply-to: <199511060947.UAA10166@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:47:43 +1100) Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >The ANSI standard says that math functions shall not cause any externally >visible exceptions; for domain errors, errno shall be set to EDOM and an >implementation-defined value shall be returned; for range errors, errno >shall be set to ERANGE and a correctly signed +-HUGE_VAL shall be returned. So we agree that the current behavior is non-standard. However you have convinced me that my suggestion on how to fix it is probably naive. >What do these systems do for common application errors? E.g., This is the print out ot the result of pow before actualling trying to do math on the value. (I don't understand you i387 stack overflow example): /* 1. Overrun i387 stack. */ SCO: No Error. /* 2. Overflow. */ SCO: d = inf, e = 34 HPUX: d = 1.79769e+308, e = 34 SGI: d = inf, e = 34 OSF: d = 1.79769e+308, e = 34, SIGFPE Ultrix: d = Infinity, e = 34 SUN: d = Inf, e = 34 /* 3. Invalid operation. */ SCO: d = inf, e = 34, SIGFPE HPUX: d = 1.79769e+308, e = 34 SGI: d = inf, e = 34 OSF: d = 1.79769e+308, e = 34 Ultrix: d = Infinity, e = 34 SUN: d = Inf, e = 34 >Systems that use __IBCS_NPXCW__ for the default control word have to do >extra work in the library functions so that the library functions don't >trap. I think some of the i386 Unixes do this. Seems a reasonable way to get the behavior. >The problem is that the control word is global so changing it affects the >behaviour of d += d and d-= d above as well as fixing the library functions. I will buy that. I would total ageee that these non-library function errors should be trapped if possible, although most system don't seem to do it. >The correct value isn't passed to __kernel_standard() so one has to be >invented. This is fairly easy for acos(|x|>1) because there is only >one reasonable value (the default NaN). Other cases are more difficult. >E.g., for pow(0, negative), the correct value is +HUGE_VAL for +0 and >-HUGE_VAL for -0 but __kernel_standard always returns -HUGE_VAL. There >are 19 different cases for the `IEEE' version of pow(), but only 6 cases >for pow() in __kernel_standard(). Ok, I am naive. So how do we get to the point were we don't SIGFPE in library functions? Can it at least be made better in the 2.1 time frame? What can I do to help? >>---------------------------------------------- >>HP-UX A.09.01: >>acos: DOMAIN error >>acos (2.0) = 0, errno = 33 > >Bogus side effect (extra output). This is the old SysV matherr stuff. Applications are suppose to provide there own matherr function to stop the output (yuk). Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 08:37:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA01136 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:37:12 -0800 Received: from gandalf.me.ksu.edu (root@gandalf.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA01129 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:37:05 -0800 Received: from bilbo.me.ksu.edu (joed@bilbo.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.87]) by gandalf.me.ksu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA05694; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:36:50 -0600 Received: (from joed@localhost) by bilbo.me.ksu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA23017; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:34:37 -0600 From: Joe Diehl Message-Id: <199511061634.KAA23017@bilbo.me.ksu.edu> Subject: Re: Pentium BUG To: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:34:37 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <9511061410.AA16785.gonzo@vmicls.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Nov 6, 95 09:10:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1144 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jerry Kendall wrote: > > A while ago, I read somewhere, a little test procedure that I could do > to test and see if my Pentium had this 'well-known' bug. > > Does anyone know what this procedure is ??? > > Jerry > Here's a small little program to test for the bug: #include int main() { double x,y,z; x = 4195835.0; y = 3145727.0; z = x - (x / y) * y; printf("%f\n",z); return 0; } As you can see, by simply algebra, z should always == 0; however, on a Pentium with the FDIV bug, you can get odd answers with certain numbers. In this case, the answer will be 256 if you have the bug, and 0 if you don't... Here is the sig of the guy who either wrote the code or posted the code without any credit given to the author... ___ |0 0| Thanks, | ^ | Duck (\_/) Wm. David "Duck" McDonald, Anderson SC USA ,______| | and.factm.tr@ocf.compuserve.com \______/ TOP-DUCK@genie.geis.com Enjoy... :-) --- Joe Diehl Engineering Computing Center Kansas State University From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 09:00:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA02407 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:00:45 -0800 Received: from gandalf.me.ksu.edu (root@gandalf.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA02401 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:00:41 -0800 Received: from bilbo.me.ksu.edu (joed@bilbo.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.87]) by gandalf.me.ksu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA05869 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:00:25 -0600 Received: (from joed@localhost) by bilbo.me.ksu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA23113 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:58:12 -0600 From: Joe Diehl Message-Id: <199511061658.KAA23113@bilbo.me.ksu.edu> Subject: Re: Pentium BUG To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:58:12 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199511061634.KAA23017@bilbo.me.ksu.edu> from "Joe Diehl" at Nov 6, 95 10:34:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Joe Diehl wrote: > > > Here's a small little program to test for the bug: <... snip...> > Here is the sig of the guy who either wrote the code or posted the code > without any credit given to the author... <... snip ...> Correction, I just found this bit of text in his message about the source of the FDIV checker: /* I got the above from the "TCPLUS" list (a list about C and C++ programing). I'm not sure but you may be able to use the Windows Calculator or QBASIC to do the same but I don't know how. REMEMBER: it only occurs with certain bit patterns. Sorry for the mistake... :-( --- Joe Diehl Engineering Computing Center Kansas State University From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 09:09:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA02731 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:09:32 -0800 Received: from eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA02614 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:06:38 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA19322; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:05:46 +0100 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA08032; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:37:14 +0100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:37:14 +0100 From: "Julian Stacey jhs@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <199511061037.LAA08032@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: exmh Cc: jhs@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Any EXMH users know what the difference between the 2 folder lines is ? ( I seem to be confusing myself trying to move files between folders ) I'm using V1.2gamma 12/21/93, a hacked up version taken off another architecture, I know there are newer versions but I'm loathe to experiment with the new, when I don't even understand the old (& it's my working mailer) I don't feel I understand exmh well enough to make a port... yet. Sometime when I've learnt exmh properly I will make a port if someone else doesnt first. PS plse leave jhs@freebsd.org on the cc line as I'm not on hackers list, Tks. Julian --- Julian H. Stacey EMAIL: jhs@freebsd.org WEB: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 10:07:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA05283 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:07:51 -0800 Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05260 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:07:28 -0800 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA20354; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:05:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA24338; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:02:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199511061802.KAA24338@geli.clusternet> X-Authentication-Warning: geli.clusternet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Mark Diekhans cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 08:09:20 PST." <199511061609.IAA08229@Grizzly.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 10:02:53 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This is an interesting discussion of an area with an immense amount of work behind it. More portable numerical software is relying on specific numerical tests that have well defined (by the IEEE standard) results for given inputs, but are ruined by the various unimplemented pieces such as the given examples show. David Hough was until recently probably one the most energetic people in this area. He produced a test suite that compared a system's actual response to the "correct" response in many different ways. I'm going to try dig this up. It's easy to get religious about the area, but it is hard figure out the best tradeoff between implementation and performance. I'd prefer if the IEEE behaviour could match the behaviour of Sun, SGI, IBM, and DEC, in that order. Russell rcarter@geli.com Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 10:24:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06186 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:24:38 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA06178 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:24:31 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Mon, 6 Nov 95 19:24 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA14877; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:08:25 +0100 Message-Id: <199511061808.TAA14877@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:08:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511051705.SAA00337@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 5, 95 06:05:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 860 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > As Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > Sure, but how? If I remove CD-ROM support for my dickless > > workstations, I get unresolved references from other modules which do > > need to stay. Sure, I could go in and throw in some #ifdefs--maybe. > > But that's going beyond a simple kernel rebuild. > > I don't understand which unresolved references you're getting. Well, that made me go and repeat the whole thing, and this time it worked. I obviously did something wrong last time round, but I can't remember what. > Perhaps you've by accident removed scsi adapter support, but tried to > keep some higher-level scsi device in? No, it wasn't that simple. It was a reference from deep in the kernel to a name with "cdrom" in it. I had removed all SCSI and CD-ROM stuff, but then, that's what I did today as well. Let's bury this one Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 10:29:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06411 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:29:22 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA06406 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:29:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00612; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:29:00 -0800 To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 18:42:23 +0300." Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 10:29:00 -0800 Message-ID: <610.815682540@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <26068.815665008@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > >Just check out a copy of the *2.1* version of sysinstall, build it > >with debugging, and go to the configuration/package menu and select > >the "All" category. You'll see the problem quickly enough! > > I can't compile 2.1 sysinstall into -current, here showstopper: No problem - just grab the 2.1 libdisk as well. In fact, I'd just check out a 2.1 /usr/src/release and go with that! :) Sorry, but it really is easiest to see the problem with sysinstall! The stand-alone utilities don't represent it because they exit immediately after the dialog function returns, making stack corruption unnoticed. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 10:32:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06685 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:32:39 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA06680 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:32:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00635; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:31:28 -0800 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 14:29:37 +0100." <199511061329.OAA20403@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 10:31:28 -0800 Message-ID: <633.815682688@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > My wishlist for things from -current: > > > Sorry, but while all of these things would be *nice*, they're not > > critical bug fixes... > > Ooops, you misunderstood: this was my wishlist for /exerimental! Whoops! My apologies. Can you bundle it up somewhere and point me at it? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 10:35:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06978 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:35:29 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA06970 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:35:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00646; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:34:47 -0800 To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 16:00:28 +0100." <199511061500.QAA13791@allegro.lemis.de> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 10:34:47 -0800 Message-ID: <643.815682887@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > That may be true most of the time, but consider my situation. I have > machines running both BSD/386 and FreeBSD, and the software is You're arguing two different arguments. BSD/OS compatiblity was never in doubt as a goal - there's a REASON to put the work into that. For NetBSD, I still don't see the reason. Don't forget, this isn't a company and we don't go down an extensive checklist of each and every function before release - if a feature isn't used, it rots and you might as well have not bothered in the first place. It'd be nice if we could have such thorough regression testing, but we do the best with the resources we have. I don't see that NetBSD support would stay working for very long considering that most people would never use it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 10:39:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA07508 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:39:55 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA07492 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:39:50 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA15560; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:35:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511061835.LAA15560@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:35:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1563.815569274@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 5, 95 03:01:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1733 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No kidding. I have been so desperate to get some sort of working > patch mechanism going (you wouldn't *believe* the number of requests I > get for this from people who quite understandably just want to update > their bits, not reinstall them from scratch) that I've even contemplated > the resurrection of the *patch kit*! > > Surely we can do something better than that? The patchkit operated on a "patch per feature" basis. CVS operates on a "patch per functional revision" basis. Well, at least it's supposed to all compile at any given revision. I don't think a "cvs diff -r rev1 -r rev2 -c" will produce a "per feature" patch unless features are committed one per revision. What was the greatest weakness of the patchkit (ordered install of dependent functionality) was also its greatest strength, at least for something like this. Unless you were willing to assert reader/writer locks such that a feature add was done by a single non-concurrent write, and limit adds to a per feature basis (lock tags being asswerted per writer lock session when the lock is released), then I can't see you being able to package up features on an individual basis. Doing so would mean procedural changes, some loss of concurrency on commits (but none on checkout unless you wanted to ensure a compilable code cut), and some additional work for committers, who'd be expected to break commits up on functional lines. I really think it wouldn't be worth it to you. You're still missing the revision dependency graphing tool to determine install order for revision based patches. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 10:42:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA07762 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:42:08 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA07755 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:41:56 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA15575; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:38:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511061838.LAA15575@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: grog@lemis.de Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:38:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511051455.PAA12893@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Nov 5, 95 03:55:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 656 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > >Would you like to hazard a guess about what percentage of people > > >really, *really* customize their kernels? Even if you do, you might > > > > Low. 20%? > > Well, I suppose it's a guess, but what do other people think? > Remember, this is a group of people who *understand* the system. I'd > guess that not more than 1% of the users out there rebuild their > system, and those that do do it mainly because they have a problem > with the generic kernel. Does userconfig count? What about use of an LKM? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 11:09:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA09512 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:09:56 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA09501 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:09:53 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA17475 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:09:18 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511061909.NAA17475@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: PCI RAID Controller... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:09:17 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Since there is an interest in performance solutions on this list, and because somebody had mentioned the Compaq(??) EISA RAID controller a while back, I was fascinated when I ran across the following: (from http://www.adaptec.com/sales/AHA3985Features.html) (snip)---------------------------------------------------------------- Adaptec AHA®-3985 PCI RAID Adapter Delivers high performance through innovative multiprocessing RAID architecture Provides three independent SCSI I/O channels Supports multiple RAID levels 5, 1, 0, 0/1 (snip)---------------------------------------------------------------- The unit looks a little pricey ($750ish) but that's not entirely out of line for a 3-channel controller, considering the 3940's around $400. Does anybody have any further information about this? (is anybody looking to write a device driver for it???) All FreeBSD needs now is a PrestoServe type solution (the one advantage of the Compaq controller) ... I can just see it now. Pentium, of Borg, materializes, saying "Sun is Irrelevant", holding a FreeBSD 2.2 CDROM and a FreebieServe Cache Accelerator card :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 11:13:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA09656 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:13:16 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA09651 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:13:13 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA28129; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:13:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199511061913.LAA28129@rah.star-gate.com> To: Jake Hamby cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 07:20:14 PST." Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 11:11:57 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I just went back to 1.1n after I tried to post a couple of times to usenet and 2.b2 just hung ... Also the e-mail interface when I click on get new mail, netscape generates a core dump. So I will probably start using netscape 2.0b10 or so... Cheers, Amancio >>> Jake Hamby said: > On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I just had to say it - it's getting a lot nicer! > > > > They fixed every single bug I reported and have added a number of > > other nice features. > > > > Jordan-Bob says: Check it out! > > > > Jordan > > > > > > Still no Java support for FreeBSD :-( But if most of the annoying bugs > have been exterminated, then I think I'll start using it again (I went > back to 1.1 after a brief look at 2.0b1). Any news on future Java support > in the BSDI/FreeBSD version, Jordan? Too bad their FTP servers get SO > busy after a new release, I can't seem to get in right now... :-) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com > Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 11:15:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA09813 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:15:50 -0800 Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA09806 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:15:37 -0800 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id UAA24264; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:14:56 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199511061914.UAA24264@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: [Q] Traceroute and source routing To: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:14:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Nov 4, 95 08:40:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1091 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > so...i want a source route option on traceroute. > > suggestions ?? pointers ?? code ?? > It is in the Stevens book: ftp://ftp.uu.net:/published/books/setevens.tcpipv1.tar.gz -Guido But beware: ***** SOURCE ROUTING LIMITATION: The traceroute.lsrr.c program only works for me under SunOS 4.1.x and vanilla SVR4. It *does not* work under BSD/386, 4.4BSD, or Solaris 2.x. The reason is as follows: traceroute sets the source route correctly using the IP_OPTIONS socket option and then sets the IP_HDRINCL socket option to allow it to pass a complete IP header (with its desired value of the TTL). But newer systems do not insert the IP options specified by IP_OPTIONS if IP_HDRINCL is also set (for a SOCK_RAW Internet socket), meaning the source route option is never used by the kernel! The only way around this appears to be for traceroute itself to set the correct source route options in the IP header, before doing the sendto(), essentially emulating what the kernel does when it inserts IP options prior to output. This is nontrivial and I haven't tried to do it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 11:53:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA10636 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:53:16 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA10619 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:53:05 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA15687; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:44:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511061944.MAA15687@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: More nits To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:44:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511052333.KAA28983@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 6, 95 10:03:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1273 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > > > As Michael Smith wrote: > > > > > > Just to point out that detaching userconfig() would be _very_ simple; if > > > anyone wants diffs to add a NOUSERCONFIG option I'll happily produce them. > > > > Nope, make it the other way round: options USERCONFIG, but we include > > the keyword into the default kernel config files. This is IMHO more > > consisten with current schemes. > > Ok, to implement this, bracket the entirety of /sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c > with #ifdef USERCONFIG/#endif, Uh, don't you mean change the /sys/i386/conf/files.i386 line: i386/i386/userconfig.c standard To: i386/i386/userconfig.c optional userconfig ??? > and then apply this to > /sys/i386/i386/machdep.c : > > --- /sys/i386/i386/machdep.c Thu Oct 26 00:18:46 1995 > +++ ./machdep.c Mon Nov 6 10:01:10 1995 > @@ -374,8 +374,10 @@ > for (i = 1; i < ncallout; i++) > callout[i-1].c_next = &callout[i]; > > +#ifdef USERCONFIG > if (boothowto & RB_CONFIG) > userconfig(); > +#endif > > #ifdef BOUNCE_BUFFERS > /* Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 11:54:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA10713 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:54:55 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA10704 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:54:45 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA15705; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:48:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511061948.MAA15705@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: More nits To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:48:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <21216.815622204@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 5, 95 05:43:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 649 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan writes: > Julian writes: > > maybe I'll make it availible via ftp or something.. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND > > why this obsession of yours with not producing a SUBSET disk > > that handles this case.. The single floppy > > It's not an obsession, it's an unwillingness to do more work! Surely > you, in the IFS hell you're in, can understand that somebody might > just resent the demands for additional work when they're already > running flat out? Julian's using Win95 IFS? What are you using it for? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 11:57:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA10766 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:57:05 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA10761 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:57:02 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA15718; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:51:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511061951.MAA15718@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:51:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20412.815613205@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 5, 95 03:13:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 701 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > * another thing is the COMPAT_FREEBSD option (... and code) - i think > > it would be a good idea to have something similar for NetBSD > > (COMPAT_NETBSD) in FreeBSD - i think it should be relatively easy to > > Uh. Why? :-) > > I believe the big reason for them having COMPAT_FREEBSD to run our > packages, which is a perfectly reasonable thing. From the opposite > point of view, I can't think of *any* applications (save AFS, which > isn't even an app) that run only on NetBSD and aren't available in > FreeBSD versions. Linux DOSEMU. Other VM86(). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 12:07:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA11035 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:07:06 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11030 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:07:02 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA15748; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:03:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511062003.NAA15748@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PCMCIA donations/loans... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:03:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3828.815674216@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Nov 6, 95 05:10:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 738 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm about to embark on the last leg of the quest to decent PCMCIA support. > > Thanks to Andrew McRae we have the framework, now we just need to handle > all the bits correctly. > > This is relatively trivial, if it werent for the fact that nobody > does things the same way as anybody else in the PCMCIA business. > > My problem right now is that I only have two cards to test with, a > modem card and an ethernet card. What bridge chip sets do you have to test with? I'm aware of at least five incompatible chipsets for Intel alone, not including the non-Intel PCMCIA capable hardware... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 12:08:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA11141 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:08:26 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11135 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:08:22 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA29871; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:05:22 +1100 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:05:22 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511062005.HAA29871@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, markd@grizzly.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>What do these systems do for common application errors? E.g., >This is the print out ot the result of pow before actualling trying to do >math on the value. (I don't understand you i387 stack overflow example): The stack overflow example calls a function that is implicitly declared as returning int but which actually returns double. If double results are returned on the i387 stack, then they probably won't be removed (the actual behaviour is undefined), so the stack will overflow after about 8 calls. >/* 1. Overrun i387 stack. */ >SCO: No Error. >/* 2. Overflow. */ >SCO: d = inf, e = 34 >HPUX: d = 1.79769e+308, e = 34 >SGI: d = inf, e = 34 >OSF: d = 1.79769e+308, e = 34, SIGFPE >Ultrix: d = Infinity, e = 34 >SUN: d = Inf, e = 34 >/* 3. Invalid operation. */ >SCO: d = inf, e = 34, SIGFPE >HPUX: d = 1.79769e+308, e = 34 >SGI: d = inf, e = 34 >OSF: d = 1.79769e+308, e = 34 >Ultrix: d = Infinity, e = 34 >SUN: d = Inf, e = 34 When did the SIGFPE occur? >>The problem is that the control word is global so changing it affects the >>behaviour of d += d and d-= d above as well as fixing the library functions. >I will buy that. I would total ageee that these non-library function errors >should be trapped if possible, although most system don't seem to do it. I tried masking overflow and division by 0, leaving only invalid operand exceptions unmasked. This works quite well for detecting bugs without breaking things that IEEE arithmetic can do well: pow(0.0, -1.0) = Inf; int i = pow(0.0, -1.0) => SIGFPE stack overflow => SIGFPE acos(2.0) => SIGFPE (oops) If acos(2.0) didn't trap and wasn't messed up by __kernel_standard(), then it would return a quiet NaN which wouldn't cause any more SIGFPEs. >>The correct value isn't passed to __kernel_standard() so one has to be >>invented. This is fairly easy for acos(|x|>1) because there is only >>... >Ok, I am naive. So how do we get to the point were we don't SIGFPE in >library functions? Can it at least be made better in the 2.1 time frame? >What can I do to help? I don't see how it can be fixed for 2.1 unless 2.1 slips for another month or two. To stop exceptions in library math functions, the exception mask would have to be changed for each function. There are already wrapper functions that make this easier. There are 50 wrapper functions :-(. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 12:09:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA11211 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:09:11 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11203 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:09:08 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA15761; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:06:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511062006.NAA15761@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PCMCIA donations/loans... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:06:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3828.815674216@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Nov 6, 95 05:10:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 812 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you have any PCMCIA cards lying around that you don't use, I'd > be very happy if you would donate them to the FreeBSD project to form > a test collection for the PCMCIA code. > > This collection of cards will remain in custody of the FreeBSD project, > one way or another, so that we have a means for regression testing. > > Donors will of course be listed in the "FreeBSD HW contributors" list. Is this "the FreeBSD project" or "The FreeBSD Project, Inc."? If the latter, is it non-profit so that contributions are in fact tax deductable? I know I'd personally be more apt to donate if this were the case; thanks in advance for the clarification. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 12:13:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA11454 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:13:32 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA11448 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:13:28 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA26516 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:12:07 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 6 Nov 95 23:12:06 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA00987; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:10:44 +0300 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org References: <610.815682540@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <610.815682540@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mon, 06 Nov 1995 10:29:00 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:10:44 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! Lines: 36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1213 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <610.815682540@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >Sorry, but it really is easiest to see the problem with sysinstall! >The stand-alone utilities don't represent it because they exit >immediately after the dialog function returns, making stack corruption >unnoticed. Well, it was easy, take about 1min to debug :-) Here quick and durty fix, I assume you can do more correct variant based on your sysinstall ideas. (result[] holds all package names separated by newlines). *** index.c.bak Mon Nov 6 15:49:24 1995 --- index.c Mon Nov 6 23:06:05 1995 *************** *** 438,444 **** int curr, max; PkgNodePtr sp, kp; char **nitems; ! char result[127]; Boolean hasPackages; hasPackages = FALSE; --- 438,444 ---- int curr, max; PkgNodePtr sp, kp; char **nitems; ! char result[127000]; Boolean hasPackages; hasPackages = FALSE; -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 12:13:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA11496 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:13:50 -0800 Received: from gatekeeper.ctron.com (ctron.com [134.141.197.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11486 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:13:47 -0800 Received: (from news@localhost) by gatekeeper.ctron.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA01121 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:13:44 -0500 Received: from stealth.ctron.com(134.141.5.107) by gatekeeper via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma001103; Mon Nov 6 15:13:24 1995 Received: from thoth by stealth.ctron.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13192; Mon, 6 Nov 95 15:16:31 EST Received: from localhost by thoth (4.1/4.7) id AA12071; Mon, 6 Nov 95 15:18:21 EST Message-Id: <9511062018.AA12071@thoth> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: driver for Turtle Beach card? Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. Durham, NH Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 15:18:21 -0500 From: Alexander Seth Jones Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone written a device driver for the Turtle Beach Monterey or Tahiti sound cards? (I need one for an audio project I'm working on.) If no-one has written one, I'll be glad to sit down and write one. Is there any other interest in this? Alex Jones ATM group Cabletron Systems, Inc., Durham, NH From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 12:43:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA12626 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:43:03 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA12621 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:43:01 -0800 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA17650 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:42:31 -0800 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.140) with smtp id ; Mon, 6 Nov 95 21:42 MET Received: by sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA09266; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:42:22 +0100 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9511062042.AA09266@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:39:41 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199511051031.VAA32280@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 5, 95 09:31:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1469 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> > I've been voting for hiding the ``not found'' messages behind the > >> > "bootverbose" (boot -v) case long ago, but nobody seems to agree. :) > >> > > >> > >> i agree with you - i think this should be the sense of a "-v" flag - normally > >> you should'ne see what's missing (if it is something impotant you'll see it if > >> something is'nt working :-) - but you shoud have a chance to look more careful > >> at all the device probes (using boot -v) > > >I'll go along with that. "Not found" also scares off people who don't > >realize that it's a normal state of affairs. > > It's only normal (and not good) for GENERIC and other bloated kernels. > but why not putting it behind an kernel option (VERBOSE or something like) - then everybody may do it like he likes it - with VERBOSE all probes (positiv and negative) are always displayed - without only positiv and the negatives only when booted using the "-v" option just'n idea - t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 13:10:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA13794 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:10:38 -0800 Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA13786 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:10:23 -0800 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA16782 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:10:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA25614; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:07:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199511062107.NAA25614@geli.clusternet> X-Authentication-Warning: geli.clusternet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: rcarter@geli.com Subject: NPX, UCBTest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 13:07:19 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk David Hough's IEEE test software is in http://www.netlib.org/fp/ucbtest.tar.gz The FreeBSD core dump behavior is very noticeable, and there is a fair amount of data on other systems. Linux behaves like Suns. Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 13:57:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA15279 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:57:46 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA15268 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:57:37 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA00202; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:54:42 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511062154.NAA00202@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: More nits To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:54:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511061948.MAA15705@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 6, 95 12:48:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 716 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk TYPO.. That's TFS > > Jordan writes: > > Julian writes: > > > maybe I'll make it availible via ftp or something.. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND > > > why this obsession of yours with not producing a SUBSET disk > > > that handles this case.. The single floppy > > > > It's not an obsession, it's an unwillingness to do more work! Surely > > you, in the IFS hell you're in, can understand that somebody might > > just resent the demands for additional work when they're already > > running flat out? > > Julian's using Win95 IFS? > > What are you using it for? > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 14:15:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA16030 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:15:43 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16024 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:15:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01433; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:14:41 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More nits In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 12:48:14 MST." <199511061948.MAA15705@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 14:14:41 -0800 Message-ID: <1431.815696081@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Julian's using Win95 IFS? IFS, TFS, whatever! :-) They're both hellish so I get them confused.. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 14:16:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA16140 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:16:47 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16129 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:16:44 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01447; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:15:40 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 12:51:51 MST." <199511061951.MAA15718@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 14:15:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1444.815696140@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Linux DOSEMU. Other VM86(). This is going to be solved by adding general NetBSD user binary emulation? Helloooooo Terry!! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 14:18:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA16227 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:18:16 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16217 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:18:12 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01464; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:18:04 -0800 To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:10:44 +0300." Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 14:18:04 -0800 Message-ID: <1462.815696284@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > *** index.c.bak Mon Nov 6 15:49:24 1995 > --- index.c Mon Nov 6 23:06:05 1995 > *************** > *** 438,444 **** > int curr, max; > PkgNodePtr sp, kp; > char **nitems; > ! char result[127]; Ye gods, was that really it?! That's it. I quit. If anyone's looking for me, I'll be in Idaho in my new job as a potato farmer.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 15:08:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA18053 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:08:53 -0800 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA18039 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:08:48 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.1/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id PAA24886 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA16491; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:56:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511062256.PAA16491@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:56:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <1444.815696140@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 6, 95 02:15:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Linux DOSEMU. Other VM86(). > > This is going to be solved by adding general NetBSD user binary > emulation? Helloooooo Terry!! :) Why would "general NetBSD user binary emulation" require any kernel options at all? We were talking about "things that require a 'NETBSD_COMPAT' flag". Since you mentioned AFS as a potential example (AFS would require inverting the name lookup cookie mechanism used iby NFS), alternate kernel code examples sprang to mind. If you don't want kernel examples (ie: AFS was a bad example), then what about NetBSD's thread environment for their JAVA port? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 15:16:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA18683 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:16:09 -0800 Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA18648 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:16:00 -0800 Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id BAA08573 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 01:15:08 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id BAA13813 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 01:11:29 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id BAA27078 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 01:11:29 +0200 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 01:11:29 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199511062311.BAA27078@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. Organization: Electronni Visti InformAgency (ElVisti) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2+] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk My $0.02 to Joerg Wunsch's wishlist: : As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: : > : > 2. Unless I get substantial input on this in the next couple of days, the : > "experimental" distribution will remain unchanged for 2.1. : My wishlist for things from -current: : . fsdb and quot : . lint (assuming i'll get the FreeBSD patches in by tomorrow) : . killall : . scsiformat . Recent bugfixes in TCP/IP (have seen them in cvs list, they hold Richard Stevens name on them; is it Stevens who wrote the "Advanced ..." books? Does he use FreeBSD?) : -- : cheers, J"org : joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE : Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 An undocumented feature is a coding error. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 16:21:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA21554 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:21:47 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA21545 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:21:43 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA04511; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:21:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA08269; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:20:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199511070020.QAA08269@corbin.Root.COM> To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 95 01:11:29 +0200." <199511062311.BAA27078@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 16:19:09 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >My $0.02 to Joerg Wunsch's wishlist: > >: As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >: > >: > 2. Unless I get substantial input on this in the next couple of days, the >: > "experimental" distribution will remain unchanged for 2.1. > >: My wishlist for things from -current: > >: . fsdb and quot >: . lint (assuming i'll get the FreeBSD patches in by tomorrow) >: . killall >: . scsiformat > > . Recent bugfixes in TCP/IP (have seen them in cvs list, they > hold Richard Stevens name on them; is it Stevens who wrote > the "Advanced ..." books? Does he use FreeBSD?) All the "important" TCP/IP bugfixes have been brought into 2.1. The only ones left out relate to very rarely seen bugs with T/TCP (transaction TCP). -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 16:26:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA21740 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:26:39 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA21735 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:26:37 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA18254; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:07:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199511070107.RAA18254@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI RAID Controller... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 13:09:17 CST." <199511061909.NAA17475@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 17:07:38 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Since there is an interest in performance solutions on this list, and >because somebody had mentioned the Compaq(??) EISA RAID controller a while >back, I was fascinated when I ran across the following: > >(from http://www.adaptec.com/sales/AHA3985Features.html) >(snip)---------------------------------------------------------------- >Adaptec AHA®-3985 PCI RAID Adapter I've known about this controller for some time. >Does anybody have any further information about this? (is anybody looking >to write a device driver for it???) Well, its only supported under Netware so far. Perhaps this is because of some hooks in Netware for RAID? Adaptec seems pretty tight lipped on technical information for this card. I talked with the product manager for the card today and we'll see what he can do as far as getting me programming information. If we can get enough info to support it, it should smoke. >All FreeBSD needs now is a PrestoServe type solution (the one advantage of >the Compaq controller) ... I can just see it now. Pentium, of Borg, >materializes, saying "Sun is Irrelevant", holding a FreeBSD 2.2 CDROM and >a FreebieServe Cache Accelerator card :-) :) >... Joe -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 16:42:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA22339 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:42:08 -0800 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA22334 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:42:05 -0800 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22808; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:38:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id TAA11615; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:38:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@espresso.eng.umd.edu To: David Greenman cc: "Andrew V. Stesin" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. In-Reply-To: <199511070020.QAA08269@corbin.Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, David Greenman wrote: > >My $0.02 to Joerg Wunsch's wishlist: > > > >: As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >: > > >: > 2. Unless I get substantial input on this in the next couple of days, the > >: > "experimental" distribution will remain unchanged for 2.1. > > > >: My wishlist for things from -current: > > > >: . fsdb and quot > >: . lint (assuming i'll get the FreeBSD patches in by tomorrow) > >: . killall > >: . scsiformat > > > > . Recent bugfixes in TCP/IP (have seen them in cvs list, they > > hold Richard Stevens name on them; is it Stevens who wrote > > the "Advanced ..." books? Does he use FreeBSD?) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Does anyone know if this is true? > > All the "important" TCP/IP bugfixes have been brought into 2.1. The only > ones left out relate to very rarely seen bugs with T/TCP (transaction TCP). > > -DG > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Here's OJ's internet address in hex code: 00 2F 2F 2F 2F 5C 7F 2D 0D 15 1B 19 24 24 24 18 If you can't recall the translation, here it is: null character, slash, slash, slash, slash, backslash, rubout, dash, carriage return, negative acknowledgement, escape, end of media, dollar sign, dollar sign, dollar sign, cancel From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 16:58:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA23322 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:58:41 -0800 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA23307 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:58:31 -0800 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA02934; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:58:25 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 19:58:22 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-Reply-To: <199511060749.XAA21740@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > The news group window on the left hand side has a section which > titles the headings for instance unread , name, total so grab any of > the title headings to expand on the column that you wish to be able > to read. For instance, you can grab name and move to the left or > to the right to be able to read the news group's name. Huh? You mean you couldn't change the column widths on b1? I could on my machine.... -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 18:32:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA28746 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:32:36 -0800 Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA28740 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:32:32 -0800 Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA12253 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:32:23 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id UAA12359; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:33:09 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511070233.UAA12359@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Odd crash after inode depletion.. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 20:33:08 CST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1161 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk My news server (second latest SNAP release) just freaked. After the upgrade fiasco this weekend that saw my news system down for about 36 hours, some of the disks are running a little too full. I got a warning and then when I tried to telnet in, Nov 6 19:56:59 hummin /kernel: uid 8 on /news/.0: out of inodes Nov 6 19:57:00 hummin /kernel: uid 8 on /news/.0: out of inodes Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: panic: free vnode isn't Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: syncing disks... 3 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 giving up Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: Rebooting... Since I was coming in from remote, I cannot say for sure that my telnet-in tickled the strange panic (I never got any connect message, etc) but it is almost precisely the time I tried telnetting in. Just in case it matters to anyone... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 18:43:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA29116 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:43:28 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA29110 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:43:21 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA07332; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:32:49 +1100 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:32:49 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511070232.NAA07332@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, markd@grizzly.com Subject: Re: NPX still broken in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>I tried masking overflow and division by 0, leaving only invalid operand >>exceptions unmasked. This works quite well for detecting bugs without >>breaking things that IEEE arithmetic can do well: >> >> pow(0.0, -1.0) = Inf; >> int i = pow(0.0, -1.0) => SIGFPE >>... >Isn't pow (0.0, -1.0) return an error instead of SIGFPEing? Here is pow() returns OK (see the previous line of the test). Then the assignment to the int traps. It should trap because infinity can't be represented by an int. (For the same reason, 1/0 should trap although 1.0/0.0 doesn't.) >what the SCO manual page says: > The pow function returns 0 and sets errno to [EDOM] when x is 0 and y is > non-positive, or when x is negative and y is not an integer. In these > cases, a message indicating DOMAIN error is printed on the standard error. > When the correct value for pow would overflow or underflow, pow returns +/- > HUGE or 0 respectively, and sets errno to [ERANGE]. >Seems like its pretty straight forwarded to change __kernel_standard() to >return NaN instead of zero. Am I missing something? The 18 other cases handled by e_pow.c :-). pow(0.0, -1.0) isn't even a domain error for a version of pow() as careful as the one in e_pow.c (NaN would be returned for a domain error). >If there is not going to be another SNAP, it would obviously be foolish >to make this change beform the final. If there is going to be SNAP or too, >editing the 50 w_*.c files to save the old mask, zero it and then >restore it on exit would be pretty straight forward. I could probably The following works for acos(2.0): ----- *** w_acos.c~ Wed May 31 19:13:32 1995 --- w_acos.c Tue Nov 7 10:51:03 1995 *************** *** 33,39 **** --- 33,46 ---- return __ieee754_acos(x); #else double z; + int s = fpgetmask(); + if (s != 0) + fpsetmask(0); z = __ieee754_acos(x); + if (s != 0) { + fpresetsticky(FP_STKY_FLD); + fpsetmask(s); + } if(_LIB_VERSION == _IEEE_ || isnan(x)) return z; if(fabs(x)>1.0) { return __kernel_standard(x,x,1); /* acos(|x|>1) */ ---- (also #include in math_private.h). The fp functions generate poor code (`fnstcw; fnstenv; fldenv; ... fnstenv; fldenv; fnstenv; fldenv' plus bitfield fiddling where `fnstcw; fldcw; ... fnclex; fldcw' plus less bitfield fiddling would be sufficient). The (s != 0) test reduces the cost if all exceptions are already masked. I'm not sure whether isnan(), fabs() or __kernel_standard() can trap. If the can the the mask would have to be restored before each return. I wouldn't want to edit the files that much for a temporary change and would use another layer of wrapping. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 20:02:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01153 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:02:06 -0800 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user53.lightside.com [198.81.209.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01141 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:01:55 -0800 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA00251; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:03:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:03:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here are some Netscape 2.0b2 bugs that seem directly related to the BSDI version and/or FreeBSD's BSDI compatibility mode. Is anyone else having these problems? 1) Whenever I start 2.0b2, I get the message: "Netscape has detected a /home/jehamby/.netscape/lock file. This may indicate that another user is running Netscape using your /home/jehamby/.netscape files. You may continue to use Netscape, but you will be unable to use the disk cache, global history, or your personal certificates." The odd thing is that there is NO lock file in my .netscape directory and I even deleted the entire .netscape directory with no change. Also odd is that I can still edit my bookmarks and entries are being added to the disk cache even though the message says that this is impossible. This did not happen in 2.0b1 by the way... 2) When I run Netscape 2.0b2, I am getting messages echoed to console from syslog: Nov 6 19:50:56 buk syslog: /etc/pwd.db: Invalid argument Nov 6 19:50:56 buk last message repeated 7 times Again, this sounds like a FreeBSD->BSDI mapping problem. Does anyone have an answer for either of these? I also reported the first problem (as it is more severe, and less likely to be FreeBSD's fault) to Netscape. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 20:11:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01468 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:11:31 -0800 Received: from user53.lightside.com (user58.lightside.com [198.81.209.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01457 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:11:21 -0800 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by user53.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA00343; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:13:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:12:47 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > 1) Whenever I start 2.0b2, I get the message: "Netscape has detected a > /home/jehamby/.netscape/lock file. This may indicate that another user > is running Netscape using your /home/jehamby/.netscape files. You may > continue to use Netscape, but you will be unable to use the disk cache, > global history, or your personal certificates." The odd thing is that > there is NO lock file in my .netscape directory and I even deleted the > entire .netscape directory with no change. Also odd is that I can still > edit my bookmarks and entries are being added to the disk cache even > though the message says that this is impossible. This did not happen in > 2.0b1 by the way... > As it turns out, I traced this problem to my dial-on-demand PPP setup. When I changed my hostname from the imaginary "buk.lightside.com" to the correct "userxx.lightside.com" where xx is randomly assigned (and corresponds to the actual IP address 198.81.209.xx for my Internet provider), and also added a: route add 198.81.209.xx 127.0.0.1 Then Netscape worked correctly. Thus, it seems like the locking file mechanism will have problems when dial-on-demand hangs up, and then reconnects with a different IP address. Be forewarned! I'm going to get my Internet provider to assign me a static IP address (he promised to do so for no charge) because dial-on-demand can screw up other programs (like tin) in similar situations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 20:24:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01851 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:24:44 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01832 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:24:00 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id WAA17983; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:23:04 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511070423.WAA17983@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: PrestoServe (was: Re: PCI RAID Controller...) To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:23:03 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511070107.RAA18254@aslan.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Nov 6, 95 05:07:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, its only supported under Netware so far. Perhaps this is because of > some hooks in Netware for RAID? Adaptec seems pretty tight lipped on > technical information for this card. I talked with the product manager > for the card today and we'll see what he can do as far as getting me > programming information. If we can get enough info to support it, it > should smoke. Well, it looks like it's the jewel of their product line ;-) so that's not suprising. I was thinking, it really looks (from everything I have heard) like the board might be similar to the 3940. Now, it seems to me that if this is so, even if FreeBSD didn't support the RAID functionality right away, there are some sites that would like to support THREE SCSI busses on a single PCI card. So good luck, my fingers are crossed. Maybe if I am lucky I know somebody who will buy me one to play with... > >All FreeBSD needs now is a PrestoServe type solution (the one advantage of > >the Compaq controller) ... I can just see it now. Pentium, of Borg, > >materializes, saying "Sun is Irrelevant", holding a FreeBSD 2.2 CDROM and > >a FreebieServe Cache Accelerator card :-) > > :) Actually, the more that I think about this, the more it makes sense. Has anyone done any work in this area? I know that typically PrestoServe is promoted as an "NFS performance accelerator", but anyone who has run a news server or other heavily loaded system doing lots of writes will swear that the Presto allows their machine to do miraculous things. And it does. Do any filesystem gurus have any comments? What would it take to do something like a Presto, from a software standpoint? Simply a layer between UNIX and the disk device driver? Or is it more complex? The hardware challenge might not be so bad... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 22:42:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA05275 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:42:08 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA05269 for hackers; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:42:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:42:07 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511070642.WAA05269@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers Subject: suspicion of stuffup in wuftp port Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk the wu-ftpd package is statically linked and appears to be linked to DES crypt you can't log in except as 'ftp' no matter what..... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 22:54:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA05624 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:54:30 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA05618 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:54:27 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Tue, 7 Nov 95 07:54 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA04130; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:53:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199511070653.HAA04130@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:53:47 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <1156.815693864@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 6, 95 01:37:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 567 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > distributions you want. Another nice thing is that, at plenty of > > points in the setup procedure, it offers you the opportunity of > > dropping into a shell and having a look at what's going on behind the > > scenes. > > Whereas I just give you a shell as soon as I can (which is pretty early > on now) and let you use it as long as you like.. :-) OK, that would make a difference. On the version I have, it doesn't get fired up until you commit yourself. If you could use it almost any time before, that would be great. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 22:54:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA05672 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:54:43 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA05663 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:54:40 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA00301; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:55:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199511070655.WAA00301@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: suspicion of stuffup in wuftp port In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 22:42:07 PST." <199511070642.WAA05269@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 22:55:49 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >the wu-ftpd package is statically linked and appears to be linked to DES crypt >you can't log in except as 'ftp' no matter what..... > >julian Oooh that is bad. We linked it static for performance reasons. Satoshi, what do you want to do about this? The easiest thing would be to just cludge the package for the 2.1 release by building it on a machine with MD5 crypt. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 23:07:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA06044 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:07:55 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA06039 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:07:50 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA03407 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:02:18 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511070702.HAA03407@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Linux emul, QMAGIC libs To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:02:17 +0000 () MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1860 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just wasting my time 8) pottering through the Linux emulator, wondering about why QMAGIC format libraries don't work. I find some interesting discrepancies 8( Linux emulation uses the standard kernel execve, but its own code for shared libraries : /* * Set file/virtual offset based on a.out variant. */ switch ((int)(a_out->a_magic & 0xffff)) { case 0413: /* ZMAGIC */ virtual_offset = 0; file_offset = 1024; break; case 0314: /* QMAGIC */ virtual_offset = 4096; file_offset = 0; break; default: return ENOEXEC; } This conflicts with /sys/kern/imgact_aout.c : (NBPG = 1<<12) - pruned /* * Set file/virtual offset based on a.out variant. */ switch ((int)(a_out->a_magic & 0xffff)) { case ZMAGIC: virtual_offset = 0; if (a_out->a_text) { file_offset = NBPG; } else { /* Bill's "screwball mode" */ file_offset = 0; } break; case QMAGIC: virtual_offset = NBPG; file_offset = 0; break; However, if this was all there was to it, QMAGIC would work, but ZMAGIC wouldn't. Any ideas? Obviously, the kernel gets it right (most of the time; this doesn't explain the failure of a QMAGIC ld.so 8), but how linux_misc manages... I'm puzzled. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 23:19:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA06795 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:19:02 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA06777 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:18:58 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA01761; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:18:44 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511070718.XAA01761@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: grog@lemis.de Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:18:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511070653.HAA04130@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Nov 7, 95 07:53:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 811 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > > distributions you want. Another nice thing is that, at plenty of > > > points in the setup procedure, it offers you the opportunity of > > > dropping into a shell and having a look at what's going on behind the > > > scenes. > > > > Whereas I just give you a shell as soon as I can (which is pretty early > > on now) and let you use it as long as you like.. :-) > > OK, that would make a difference. On the version I have, it doesn't > get fired up until you commit yourself. If you could use it almost > any time before, that would be great. unfortunatly jordan can't give you a shell till he's got one to give you it's a pain I admit.... but if you need one earlier, you can do the 'fixit' thing.. it get's one off another floppy for you to use.. > > Greg > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 23:20:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA07066 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:20:57 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA07054 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:20:46 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA26908 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:20:38 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA03043 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:20:37 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA25533 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:50:23 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511070650.HAA25533@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:50:22 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <1462.815696284@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 6, 95 02:18:04 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 629 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > ! char result[127]; > > Ye gods, was that really it?! > > That's it. I quit. If anyone's looking for me, I'll be in Idaho in > my new job as a potato farmer.. :-) :-) When looking around on the Usenix ftp server, i've stumpled across a paper called `canthappen[.ps.Z]'. It's titled Can't Happen or /* NOTREACHED */ or Real Programs Dump Core One of the rules: Avoid magic numbers... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 23:20:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA07068 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:20:59 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA07057 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:20:52 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA26916; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:20:40 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA03044; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:20:40 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA25560; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:54:59 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511070654.HAA25560@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP is now available. To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:54:59 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511062311.BAA27078@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> from "Andrew V. Stesin" at Nov 7, 95 01:11:29 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 695 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Andrew V. Stesin wrote: > > My $0.02 to Joerg Wunsch's wishlist: > . Recent bugfixes in TCP/IP (have seen them in cvs list, they > hold Richard Stevens name on them; is it Stevens who wrote > the "Advanced ..." books? Does he use FreeBSD?) I doubt that it will be possible to isolate these fixes in a way that would allow putting it into /experimental. Note further that a lot of bugfixes have already been integrated into the 2.1 branch. Likewise for the NFSv3 code (which would otherwise also have been on my list). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 6 23:23:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA07242 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:23:22 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA07231 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:23:15 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA01779; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:23:13 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511070723.XAA01779@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: suspicion of stuffup in wuftp port To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:23:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511070655.WAA00301@aslan.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Nov 6, 95 10:55:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 943 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > >the wu-ftpd package is statically linked and appears to be linked to DES crypt > >you can't log in except as 'ftp' no matter what..... > > > >julian > > Oooh that is bad. We linked it static for performance reasons. Satoshi, > what do you want to do about this? The easiest thing would be to just > cludge the package for the 2.1 release by building it on a machine with > MD5 crypt. On OSF we can force a linking with all the libs except what is wanted by specifically mentionning them in the link line.. if this works for FreeBSD we could 'statically link' everything except -lcrypt.. ? would that be a compromise? does it work? how about two of them, and let the user select? (he has to edit /etc/inetd.conf anyhow) > -- > Justin T. Gibbs > =========================================== > Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM > FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations > =========================================== > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 02:09:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA12045 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:09:31 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA12033 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:09:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA00170; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:09:16 -0800 To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 07:53:47 +0100." <199511070653.HAA04130@allegro.lemis.de> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 02:09:16 -0800 Message-ID: <168.815738956@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > OK, that would make a difference. On the version I have, it doesn't > get fired up until you commit yourself. If you could use it almost > any time before, that would be great. Well, I have to say that it's still sort of "post committal" since I need to know that there's even something on the root file system before I send the shell leaping off into space, chrooted to it (I can't leave it lying around with the floppy as its root or I'd never be able to use the floppy again). If you truly want to launch a shell first thing and go poking around, I provided the "fixit" option for that. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 02:20:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA12497 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:20:18 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA12492 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:20:14 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA00256; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:19:54 -0800 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 07:50:22 +0100." <199511070650.HAA25533@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 02:19:53 -0800 Message-ID: <253.815739593@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > One of the rules: Avoid magic numbers... Unfortunately, in this case it's impossible since I don't know the length of the potential result string in advance. I've done the next best thing which is to add up all the package names in the longest menu and calculate what the maximum possible result string would be, making it that long. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 02:56:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA13650 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:56:13 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA13645 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:56:08 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA02766 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:56:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199511071056.CAA02766@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CAA02716.815741535/rah.star-gate.com" Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 02:56:06 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This is a MIME-encapsulated message - --CAA02716.815741535/rah.star-gate.com - --CAA02716.815741535/rah.star-gate.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: hasty@rah.star-gate.com Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA02714 for <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:52:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199511071052.CAA02714@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 02:52:13 -0800 Sender: hasty From: "Amancio Hasty, Jr." X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A question about fast copying with a Pentium processor X-URL: news:47lm63$6j0@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Should we start using floating point ? 8) Thats a joke however I do think that some of you may find this interesting... Cheers, Amancio mschmit@ix.netcom.com (Mike Schmit) wrote: >In <1995Nov5.235249.8471@nmt.edu> borchers@nmt.edu (Brian Borchers) writes: >> >>I've got a question about coding for speed on the Pentium that has me >>somewhat baffled. Consider the problem of copying a large number of >>double precision numbers from one array to another. Here's C code >>for the operation: >> >> for (i=0; i<=SIZE-1; i++) >> { >> b[i]=a[i]; >> }; >> >> >>Using the Gnu C Compiler version 2.6.3 (I know, I should move up to the >>latest version, but that has nothing to do with my question) we get >>the following code for this loop: >> >>L20: >> movl (%ebx),%eax >> movl 4(%ebx),%edx >> movl %eax,(%ecx) >> movl %edx,4(%ecx) >> addl $8,%ecx >> addl $8,%ebx >> cmpl %edi,%ecx >> jle L20 >> >>When I run the code on fairly large arrays, I find that my system can copy >>about 30 Megabytes per second on arrays of four megabytes or so. >> >>I then rewrite the loop as follows: >> >>L20: >> fldl (%ebx) >> fstpl (%ecx) >> addl $8,%ecx >> addl $8,%ebx >> cmpl %edi,%ecx >> jle L20 >> >>The resulting program copies data at about 60 Megabytes per second. >> >>Thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that both versions of the >>code should probably be most limited by memory bandwidth. However, I >>expect that both codes should be using exactly the same memory >>bandwidth. >> >>Looking at "Optimizations for Intel's 32-Bit Processors", Version 2.0, >>I see that on page 25, an approach like that used by gcc is suggested >>as being twice as fast as the other approach, while in practice, it >>seems to be twice as slow. >> >>Questions: >> >> - Why is the first version of the code not as fast as the >second? >> >> - Why isn't the second version faster than the first (as >indicated >> by "Optimizations for Intel's 32-Bit Processors") > > (Did you mean first version?) > >> >> - What's going on here? >> > >I'm not sure why the Intel book says what it does. But the reason you >are >getting a faster copy is that the FP load and store instructions are >reading and writing memory 8 bytes at a time (and presumably these have >been properly aligned). The other integer code is just copying 4 bytes >at a time. > >Mike Schmit > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >mschmit@ix.netcom.com author: >408-244-6826 Pentium Processor Programming Tools >800-765-8086 ISBN: 0-12-627230-1 >------------------------------------------------------------------- > news:47lm63$6j0@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com - -- Amancio Hasty Hasty Software Consulting Services Tel: 415-495-3046 Fax: 415-495-3046 Cellular: 415-309-8434 e-mail: hasty@star-gate.com Powered by FreeBSD - --CAA02716.815741535/rah.star-gate.com-- ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 03:24:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA14355 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:24:39 -0800 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA14341 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:24:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199511071124.DAA14341@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Linux emul, QMAGIC libs To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:24:36 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511070702.HAA03407@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 7, 95 07:02:17 am From: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 704 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Michael Smith who wrote: > > Just wasting my time 8) pottering through the Linux emulator, wondering about > why QMAGIC format libraries don't work. > > I find some interesting discrepancies 8( > > Linux emulation uses the standard kernel execve, but its own code for shared > libraries : Ahem, no it does not, if the system finds out its a Linux binary it will call the linux image activator, not the "standard" one.. (Or at least it was so when I originally wrote the code :) ) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 03:58:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA15277 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:58:31 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA15271 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:58:26 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA03932; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:53:04 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511071153.LAA03932@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linux emul, QMAGIC libs To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:53:04 +0000 () Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511071124.DAA14341@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@FreeBSD.ORG" at Nov 7, 95 03:24:36 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1227 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk sos@FreeBSD.ORG stands accused of saying: >> Linux emulation uses the standard kernel execve, but its own code for shared >> libraries : > > Ahem, no it does not, if the system finds out its a Linux binary it will > call the linux image activator, not the "standard" one.. > (Or at least it was so when I originally wrote the code :) ) As indeed it is now; I was following the wrong lead 8( OK, so, now I have your head out of your hole 8), can you explain why Linux seems to have the organisation of ZMAGIC and QMAGIC backwards wrt. the way FreeBSD does it? And any suggestions as to why ld.so has to be ZMAGIC? I presume that the libraries have to be ZMAGIC because a ZMAGIC ld.so is too old to understand QMAGIC libraries, or am I off with the fairies here? > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 04:46:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA17131 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 04:46:30 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA17126 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 04:46:27 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tCnQ1-0003vwC; Tue, 7 Nov 95 04:46 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA02938; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:05:13 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PCMCIA donations/loans... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 13:03:37 MST." <199511062003.NAA15748@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 13:05:13 +0100 Message-ID: <2936.815745913@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > What bridge chip sets do you have to test with? I'm aware of at least > five incompatible chipsets for Intel alone, not including the non-Intel > PCMCIA capable hardware... We can support any number of chipsets in our architecture, which seems to be mandatory when people start doing industrial systems with PCMCIA. I think I told you that already last year didn't I ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 04:47:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA17193 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 04:47:44 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA17188 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 04:47:41 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tCnRD-0003vwC; Tue, 7 Nov 95 04:47 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA02949; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:06:28 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PCMCIA donations/loans... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 13:06:16 MST." <199511062006.NAA15761@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 13:06:27 +0100 Message-ID: <2947.815745987@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > If you have any PCMCIA cards lying around that you don't use, I'd > > be very happy if you would donate them to the FreeBSD project to form > > a test collection for the PCMCIA code. > > > > This collection of cards will remain in custody of the FreeBSD project, > > one way or another, so that we have a means for regression testing. > > > > Donors will of course be listed in the "FreeBSD HW contributors" list. > > Is this "the FreeBSD project" or "The FreeBSD Project, Inc."? This is the FreeBSD project, and it's not a IRS approved non-profit, since it's hardly an organization at this time. How are the rules for donating to foreign non-profits ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 05:12:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA17596 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:12:28 -0800 Received: from netra.soft.net (netra.soft.net [164.164.128.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA17589 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:12:21 -0800 From: ryan@genius.tisl.soft.net Received: from stpb.soft.net by netra.soft.net (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA13946; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:35:40 +0500 Received: from genius.tisl.soft.net by stpb.soft.net (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17867; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:33:44 +0500 Received: by genius.tisl.soft.net (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08693; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:33:01 GMT Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:33:00 +0000 (CUT) To: FreeBSD Technical Questions Subject: Double Byte Character Sets on FreeBSD Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does FreeBSD support Double Byte Character Sets (DBCS) like japanese, etc? If so, which are the corresponding functions ? (like iconv on AIX/HPUX). Thanks in advance, Ryan (Ryan@genius.tisl.soft.net) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 05:15:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA17750 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:15:36 -0800 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA17727 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:15:30 -0800 Received: from bell.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id aa23365; 7 Nov 95 13:15 GMT To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Mathematica? X-Address: School Of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. X-Phone: (Home)+353-(0)1-8204643 (College)+353-(0)1-7022280 X-PGP: Public Key on Request In-reply-to: Message from Michael Smith dated today at 11:53. Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 13:15:15 +0000 From: Colman Reilly Message-ID: <9511071315.aa23365@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Content-Description: text I'm sure I saw someone on this list say they had most of Mathematica running under the Linux emulation. Anyone remember who said that? Thanks, Colman From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 05:24:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA18030 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:24:14 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA18025 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:24:11 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Tue, 7 Nov 95 14:24 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA05257 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:26:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199511071326.OAA05257@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: What happens to terminal settings on last close? To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:26:21 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 568 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm currently playing around with terminal I/O, and have noticed a discrepancy in an area in which there is no consensus anyway. I set CLOCAL on a line, and then close it, whereupon it promptly reverts to -CLOCAL. The result is that when I try to re-open it, it hangs waiting for a DTR* signal which, in this case, will never come. This is different from the standard BSD behaviour, which leaves the terminal flags the way they are on the last close, but it's the same as System V behaviour. Is it intentional or accidental? What do you think it should do? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 05:40:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA18590 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:40:01 -0800 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA18576 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:39:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199511071339.FAA18576@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Linux emul, QMAGIC libs To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 05:39:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511071153.LAA03932@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 7, 95 11:53:04 am From: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1370 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Michael Smith who wrote: > > sos@FreeBSD.ORG stands accused of saying: > >> Linux emulation uses the standard kernel execve, but its own code for shared > >> libraries : > > > > Ahem, no it does not, if the system finds out its a Linux binary it will > > call the linux image activator, not the "standard" one.. > > (Or at least it was so when I originally wrote the code :) ) > > As indeed it is now; I was following the wrong lead 8( > > OK, so, now I have your head out of your hole 8), can you explain why > Linux seems to have the organisation of ZMAGIC and QMAGIC backwards wrt. > the way FreeBSD does it? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by backwards ?? > And any suggestions as to why ld.so has to be ZMAGIC? I presume that > the libraries have to be ZMAGIC because a ZMAGIC ld.so is too old to > understand QMAGIC libraries, or am I off with the fairies here? Hmm, I have to go check the code (both linux & ours) to speculate on this one, my best guess would be that the Linux ZMAGIC shlibs is a bit different than the "normal" ZMAGIC format, and therefore fails (that would also be in the linux spirit: close but not quite) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 07:08:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA21387 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:08:50 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21382 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:08:45 -0800 Received: from vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk (vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk [130.209.240.50]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA24485 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:08:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199511071508.HAA24485@who.cdrom.com> Received: from savage-gw.dcs.gla.ac.uk by vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk with LOCAL SMTP (PP); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:33:11 +0000 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 13:32:57 +0000 From: Simon Marlow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok, so now that we have Linux emulation, what is that chance of my being able to set up a Linux compilation environment under FreeBSD? I'd need include files, libraries, gcc, ld, as, ar, and various other tools, which presumably would all go under /compat/linux. Can anyone foresee any problems with this? Cheers, Simon -- Simon Marlow simonm@dcs.gla.ac.uk Research Assistant http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~simonm/ finger for PGP public key From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 07:26:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA21709 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:26:34 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21703 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:26:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA03718; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:20:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199511071520.IAA03718@rover.village.org> To: Simon Marlow Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 07 Nov 1995 13:32:57 GMT Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 08:20:17 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Ok, so now that we have Linux emulation, what is that chance of my : being able to set up a Linux compilation environment under FreeBSD? Are you asking if you can build a compiler that runs native on freebsd that will produce linux binaries (in which case it is a simple matter of configure options). If you are asking for running gcc from linux on freebsd to produce linux binaries, then it should work via the same mapping mechanisms that make shared libraries work. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 07:46:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA22203 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:46:23 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA22198 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:46:19 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id KAA15833; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:48:33 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA27761; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:48:32 +0500 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:48:32 +0500 Message-Id: <9511071548.AA27761.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: BOGOMIPS .... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 106 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is anybody porting this or some similar utility ??? If not, I would be interested in doing this. Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 08:16:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA23350 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:16:47 -0800 Received: from deputy.pavilion.co.uk (deputy.pavilion.co.uk [194.193.24.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA23320 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:16:32 -0800 Received: from poolc55.pavilion.co.uk (poolb54.pavilion.co.uk [194.193.28.118]) by deputy.pavilion.co.uk (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id QAA19187; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:14:39 GMT Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:14:39 GMT Message-Id: <199511071614.QAA19187@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> X-Sender: aledm@mailhost.pavilion.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org From: aledm@pavilion.co.uk (Aled Morris) Subject: Mac-FreeBSD (do they mean us?) X-Mailer: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In this month's (Nov 95) issue of LAN Magazine ("Britain's number one Networking Magazine") an EMAP publication, there are several questions regarding Linux in the Unix Q&A section. The one that caught my eye went like this: **** Q Will Linux be available for the Macintosh in the forseeable future? I'm a mac user and the only Unix around for the Mac platform seems to be A/UX, which is rather expensive and doesn't seem to have been updated for ages. I have ssen a port of FreeBSD but it is far from complete, and I have read that A/UX is not to be developed any further. A As well as not being developed any further, A/UX is effectively a dead product, though we have heard that Apple and IBM are clubbing together to get IBM's AIX running on the Power Macintosh platform. We tried the FreeBSD UNIX that you mention; however we found that it's nothing like as nice as Linux, and it is pretty featureless (it also crashed many of the machines we tried it on after only a few minutes). The bad news is that the development of Linux for the Mac seems to have ground to a halt for whatever reason - probably because the system was written with the 80x86 architecture so much in mind and porting's proving hard. Best thing to do is to keep your eyes and ears open for the Apple/IBM effort - though beware, you'll probably find that after all this waiting you'll need a Power Mac to run it on. Aside from this, however, I believe MachTen is about to appear in PowerPC-native form for the Macintosh. **** This is so amazingly unhelpful and inaccurate that I can't believe someone gets paid to write it. Anyone want to write a followup? The magazine can be contacted at: LAN Magazine EMAP Computing Greater London House Hampstead Road London NW1 7QZ England Fax: +44 171 383 5578 Email: advisor.LAN@computing.emap.co.uk Cheers Aled -- telephone +44 973 207987 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 08:31:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA24116 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:31:29 -0800 Received: from io.org (io.org [142.77.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA24111 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:31:23 -0800 Received: from flinch.io.org (flinch.io.org [198.133.36.153]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA09371; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:30:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:30:48 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: netscape 2.0b2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > 1) Whenever I start 2.0b2, I get the message: "Netscape has detected a > > /home/jehamby/.netscape/lock file. > > As it turns out, I traced this problem to my dial-on-demand PPP setup. I had the same problem on my FreeBSD box, but it was located on our Ethernet LAN. It's a new machine, so the IP address and hostname had not yet been added into our name server. Once I added it in though, the two errors (lock file and /etc/pwd.db problems) went away. I have not yet verified if this occurs under BSD/OS yet. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 08:37:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA24354 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:37:38 -0800 Received: from io.org (io.org [142.77.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA24347 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:37:34 -0800 Received: from flinch.io.org (flinch.io.org [198.133.36.153]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA10397; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:36:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:36:08 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI RAID Controller... In-Reply-To: <199511061909.NAA17475@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > The unit looks a little pricey ($750ish) but that's not entirely out of line > for a 3-channel controller, considering the 3940's around $400. In a similar vein, anyone working on support for the DPT caching controllers? I hear you can put something like 64 megs of RAM on the thing and it screams quite loudly in things like news servers. :) There are Linux drivers for it, apparently, so the programming information is available. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 09:07:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA25618 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:07:26 -0800 Received: from puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (root@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.200.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA25596 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:07:17 -0800 Received: (from briggs@localhost) by puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA23447; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:06:50 -0500 From: Allen Briggs Message-Id: <199511071706.MAA23447@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us> Subject: Re: Mac-FreeBSD (do they mean us?) To: aledm@pavilion.co.uk (Aled Morris) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:06:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511071614.QAA19187@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> from "Aled Morris" at Nov 7, 95 04:14:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 541 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Subject: Mac-FreeBSD (do they mean us?) Nope. They mean NetBSD/mac68k, probably. > This is so amazingly unhelpful and inaccurate that I can't believe someone > gets paid to write it. It is. Someone should educate them. I'll do my part from the NetBSD/mac68k side, but it would probably help if someone from FreeBSD advertised FreeBSD, too. Thanks for the pointer! -allen -- Allen Briggs - end killing - allen.briggs@bev.net ** MacBSD == NetBSD/mac68k ** Where does all my time go? Guess. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 09:21:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA26193 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:21:25 -0800 Received: from io.org (io.org [142.77.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA26164 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:20:59 -0800 Received: from flinch.io.org (flinch.io.org [198.133.36.153]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA18030; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:19:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:20:02 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Jerry Kendall cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BOGOMIPS .... In-Reply-To: <9511071548.AA27761.gonzo@vmicls.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Jerry Kendall wrote: > > Is anybody porting this or some similar utility ??? > If not, I would be interested in doing this. Why? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 09:25:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA26419 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:25:10 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA26399 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:24:59 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id MAA24586; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:27:04 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA10001; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:27:03 +0500 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:27:03 +0500 Message-Id: <9511071727.AA10001.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BOGOMIPS X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 396 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Jerry Kendall wrote: > > > > Is anybody porting this or some similar utility ??? > > If not, I would be interested in doing this. > > Why? > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) > Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > As stated in some FAQ, it is a good way to get into porting apps to FreeBSD. Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 10:02:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA27499 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:02:32 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27493 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:02:24 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA12937; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 05:00:23 +1100 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 05:00:23 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511071800.FAA12937@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: grog@lemis.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What happens to terminal settings on last close? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Subject: What happens to terminal settings on last close? The settings for some terminal devices (cy, dgb, si, sio) but not others (sc, pcvt, rc, ity) are reset to defaults on first open. The defaults are programmed into the corresponding initial state devices. See sio.4. >This is different from the standard BSD behaviour, which leaves the >terminal flags the way they are on the last close, but it's the same >as System V behaviour. Is it intentional or accidental? What do you >think it should do? It's intentional. It took a day or two to program and years to decide/ agree on the best approach. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 10:07:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA27795 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:07:46 -0800 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA27790 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:07:44 -0800 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15936(4)>; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:03:34 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:03:23 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Q] Traceroute and source routing In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 11:14:55 PST." <199511061914.UAA24264@gvr.win.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:03:12 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Nov7.100323pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199511061914.UAA24264@gvr.win.tue.nl> you write: >traceroute >sets the source route correctly using the IP_OPTIONS socket option and >then sets the IP_HDRINCL socket option to allow it to pass a complete IP >header (with its desired value of the TTL). But newer systems do not >insert the IP options specified by IP_OPTIONS if IP_HDRINCL is also set >(for a SOCK_RAW Internet socket), meaning the source route option is never >used by the kernel! I talked to Rich Stevens about this a while back, and he agreed that it's bogus and that IP_OPTIONS should not be ignored if you set IP_HDRINCL, but Garrett pushed back on the idea and I didn't feel like pushing forward... Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 10:17:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28087 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:17:13 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28078 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:17:02 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17935; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:12:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511071812.LAA17935@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PCMCIA donations/loans... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:12:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2947.815745987@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Nov 7, 95 01:06:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 461 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Is this "the FreeBSD project" or "The FreeBSD Project, Inc."? > > This is the FreeBSD project, and it's not a IRS approved non-profit, since > it's hardly an organization at this time. I thought Jordan had incorporated? > How are the rules for donating to foreign non-profits ? They have to be IRS approved. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 10:25:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28447 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:25:20 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28346 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:23:50 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA07536; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:22:53 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA00812; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:32:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199511071832.MAA00812@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/emulators/linux_lib/files md5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 10:05:56 PST." <199511071805.KAA27690@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 12:32:41 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >erich 95/11/07 10:05:53 > > Modified: emulators/linux_lib/files md5 > Log: > added more libraries to the package > particularily newer X11 libs. > abuse now works, it complains about out of date libc and libm, but it runs. eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 10:30:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28607 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:30:33 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28598 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:30:29 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17990; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:27:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511071827.LAA17990@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: What happens to terminal settings on last close? To: grog@lemis.de Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:27:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511071326.OAA05257@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Nov 7, 95 02:26:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2118 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm currently playing around with terminal I/O, and have noticed a > discrepancy in an area in which there is no consensus anyway. I set > CLOCAL on a line, and then close it, whereupon it promptly reverts to > -CLOCAL. The result is that when I try to re-open it, it hangs > waiting for a DTR* signal which, in this case, will never come. This is correct behaviour. Each tty has a default "template" setting which is restored on close. This is identical to Sun behaviour, though the template setting process uses /etc/rc.serial instead of a flags line on the device and a kernel rebuild. So the way you get a template is different, but the template mechanism is the same. > This is different from the standard BSD behaviour, which leaves the > terminal flags the way they are on the last close, but it's the same > as System V behaviour. The BSD behaviour is to template as well. The default system configuration for BSD systems, and SunOS systems in particular, is to have the CLOCAL flags *unset*. The process on SunOS is somewhat confused by the fact that SunOS allows an stty on an open device. This is not allowed on SVR4, which uses the O_EXCL flag when opening the device in getty or uugetty. There's actually a subtle bug on SVR4 related to this, since the O_EXCL flag can not be unset by a non-blocking open. With the flag set, a fork will fail to keep the tty open. > Is it intentional or accidental? What do you think it should do? It's intentional, and it should do what it does: put the terminal in a known state. If you want a different known state, you should modify /etc/rc.serial ("man 4 sio"). Typically CLOCAL is used to wait for DCD. If you aren't interested in waiting for DCD on opens, then you should do something about the defaults. This really begs the question: How did you open the device to unset CLOCAL in the first place, and why can't you use the same type of open in the program that is hanging waiting for DCD (not DTR). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 10:39:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28891 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:39:46 -0800 Received: from vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk (vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk [130.209.240.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28882 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:38:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199511071838.KAA28882@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from savage-gw.dcs.gla.ac.uk by vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk with LOCAL SMTP (PP); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:51:52 +0000 To: Warner Losh cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 08:20:17 MST." <199511071520.IAA03718@rover.village.org> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 15:50:42 +0000 From: Simon Marlow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > : Ok, so now that we have Linux emulation, what is that chance of my > : being able to set up a Linux compilation environment under FreeBSD? > > Are you asking if you can build a compiler that runs native on freebsd > that will produce linux binaries (in which case it is a simple matter > of configure options). > > If you are asking for running gcc from linux on freebsd to produce > linux binaries, then it should work via the same mapping mechanisms > that make shared libraries work. Sorry, I should have said: it's the latter, because I'm lazy and can't be bothered building a cross-compilation environment when I could just run the Linux versions of these tools directly :-) Cheers, Simon -- Simon Marlow simonm@dcs.gla.ac.uk Research Assistant http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~simonm/ finger for PGP public key From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 10:45:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA29099 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:45:19 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA29094 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:45:14 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Tue, 7 Nov 95 19:45 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA01088; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:16:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199511071816.TAA01088@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: What happens to terminal settings on last close? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:16:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511071800.FAA12937@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 8, 95 05:00:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 729 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > > >Subject: What happens to terminal settings on last close? > > The settings for some terminal devices (cy, dgb, si, sio) but not others > (sc, pcvt, rc, ity) are reset to defaults on first open. The > defaults are programmed into the corresponding initial state devices. > See sio.4. > > >This is different from the standard BSD behaviour, which leaves the > >terminal flags the way they are on the last close, but it's the same > >as System V behaviour. Is it intentional or accidental? What do you > >think it should do? > > It's intentional. It took a day or two to program and years to decide/ > agree on the best approach. OK, without reopening the can of worms, what's the reasoning? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 11:15:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA29864 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:15:20 -0800 Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA29857 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:15:14 -0800 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id UAA26991; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:15:06 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199511071915.UAA26991@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: %time spend in ip packet processing To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:15:06 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 162 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk How can I see how much time the kernel spends in IP pakcet processing? top's output of %interrup doesnt include it so it seems. This is on a 2.0R system. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 11:52:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA00824 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:52:37 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00819 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:52:33 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA26525; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:54:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:54:44 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511071954.MAA26525@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Sean Eric Fagan Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511060208.SAA00896@kithrup.com> References: <199511060208.SAA00896@kithrup.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Sean Eric Fagan writes: > I've tried to get someone who shall remain nameless (see how nice I am to > you, Nate?) to work on porting the linux ibcs2/ABI library, but I don't know > how far he's gotten. Nowhere really. Although, I do remember you saying that porting the linux ibcs2 library wasn't worth doing since you can already snarf the versions compiled with Linux, and that we couldn't use the BSD libc to build a ibcs2 compliant library. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 11:55:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA00924 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:55:39 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00916 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:55:33 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA26537; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:57:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:57:14 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511071957.MAA26537@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511062256.PAA16491@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <1444.815696140@time.cdrom.com> <199511062256.PAA16491@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > Linux DOSEMU. Other VM86(). > > > > This is going to be solved by adding general NetBSD user binary > > emulation? Helloooooo Terry!! :) > > Why would "general NetBSD user binary emulation" require any kernel > options at all? Because DOSEMU requires *LOTS* of kernel changes for VM86. No userland code would work w/out the kernel mods. Also, last time I looked VM86() support *still* isn't in the release kernel, and I don't know if the patches still being kept up-to-date. > If you don't want kernel examples (ie: AFS was a bad example), then > what about NetBSD's thread environment for their JAVA port? What thread environment? You mean CAP's, which is also available for FreeBSD? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 12:26:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA01871 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:26:19 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA01866 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:26:17 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA26894 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:24:11 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA18215; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:19:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511072019.NAA18215@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: %time spend in ip packet processing To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:19:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511071915.UAA26991@gvr.win.tue.nl> from "Guido van Rooij" at Nov 7, 95 08:15:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 670 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How can I see how much time the kernel spends in IP pakcet processing? > top's output of %interrup doesnt include it so it seems. This > is on a 2.0R system. If you can get a time stamp facility and add funtion exit as well as entry tags (or do stack hacking like I did with -Gh's __peneter() calls in MSVC), then you can do kernel block profiling. Sounds like block profiling is what you need -- not statistical profiling, which is what the gprof stuff provides. There's a paper on ftp.sage.usenix.org on profiling this way. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 12:39:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA02233 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:39:11 -0800 Received: from gandalf.me.ksu.edu (root@gandalf.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA02218 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:39:06 -0800 Received: from bilbo.me.ksu.edu (joed@bilbo.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.87]) by gandalf.me.ksu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA11735 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:38:50 -0600 Received: (from joed@localhost) by bilbo.me.ksu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA28249 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:34 -0600 From: Joe Diehl Message-Id: <199511072036.OAA28249@bilbo.me.ksu.edu> Subject: Insight ft tape drive To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:36:33 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 357 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello all! I rescently started maintaining the ft driver and had a question for all of you. Do you use, or know anyone who uses an Insight tape drive? Or more generally, anyone that needs the flag 1 in order for their tape drive to be probed successfully? Thanks --- Joe Diehl Engineering Computing Center Kansas State University From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 12:44:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA02800 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:44:38 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA02793 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:44:35 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA00979; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:44:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199511072044.MAA00979@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PCMCIA donations/loans... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 11:12:45 MST." <199511071812.LAA17935@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 12:44:03 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Another way to get donations is to contact the manufacturers and ask them for an evaluation or a loaner unit . Also, this way you can start a vendor / os relationship which may carry you thru various product life cycles not to mention if you get hold of good manufacturer you may even get hardware/software support . Also, along those lines please if you purchase hardware for FreeBSD let the manufacturer know that your intent is for FreeBSD --- it does make a difference!! I know some of you are not that involved however many times we fill out vendor registration forms which asks which OS are you running so cross out linux or windows or whatever and write down FreeBSD 8) At any rate thats what I do... Enjoy Amancio >>> Terry Lambert said: > > > Is this "the FreeBSD project" or "The FreeBSD Project, Inc."? > > > > This is the FreeBSD project, and it's not a IRS approved non-profit, since > > it's hardly an organization at this time. > > I thought Jordan had incorporated? > > > How are the rules for donating to foreign non-profits ? > > They have to be IRS approved. 8-(. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 12:48:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA02920 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:48:59 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA02913 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:48:56 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA27004 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:46:40 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA18262; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:37:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511072037.NAA18262@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:37:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511071957.MAA26537@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 7, 95 12:57:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2314 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... "why should we have a 'COMPAT_NETBSD' option" ... ] TL> Linux DOSEMU. Other VM86(). JH> This is going to be solved by adding general NetBSD user binary JH> emulation? Helloooooo Terry!! :) TL> Why would "general NetBSD user binary emulation" require any kernel TL> options at all? NW> Because DOSEMU requires *LOTS* of kernel changes for VM86. No userland NW> code would work w/out the kernel mods. Also, last time I looked VM86() NW> support *still* isn't in the release kernel, and I don't know if the NW> patches still being kept up-to-date. So you are agreeing with me... the "Linux DOSEMU. Other VM86()." is mine. The ""'ed material in my previous post was from Jordan. I was responding to the implication that "general NetBSD user binary emulation" doesn't mean the ability to run NetBSD binaries like DOSEMU in Jordan's opinion. Different definitions of "general". I think it's valid to consider the "*LOTS* of kernel changes for VM86" as a candidate for "options COMPAT_NETBSD" (the original point of discussion in this thread being "should we have a COMPAT_NETBSD?"). Unless the changes are going to be rolled in as general FreeBSD features (any takers?). If the patches aren't in the source tree, then they are definitely not being kept up to date. That's the problem with patches that don't go into the source tree. > > If you don't want kernel examples (ie: AFS was a bad example), then > > what about NetBSD's thread environment for their JAVA port? > > What thread environment? You mean CAP's, which is also available for > FreeBSD? The NetBSD "thread environment" consists of both CAP's pthreads code AND a thread safe libc, etc.. Having CAP's code is not sufficient to use the Alpha release of the NetBSD Java port on FreeBSD, except as a statically linked foreign binary. Which means that instead of the one example Jordan cited (AFS) of a a desirable piece of NetBSD-only code, the tally is up to a minimum of three: AFS, JAVA, World21. I think the actual number is higher. To think that FreeBSD cannot benefit from NetBSD ABI support but NetBSD can benefit from FreeBSD ABI support is Hubris on the part of the FreeBSD camp. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 12:49:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA03058 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:49:47 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA03045 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:49:40 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id VAA09247 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:48:23 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id VAA07950 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:48:23 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id TAA04551; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:38:40 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199511071838.TAA04551@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: BOGOMIPS .... To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:38:40 +0100 (MET) Cc: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Nov 7, 95 12:20:02 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1306 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Brian Tao said: [ about Bogomips ] > > Is anybody porting this or some similar utility ??? > > If not, I would be interested in doing this. > > Why? Yes, why ? The last thing I want is to see newbies claiming all over the place that their bobomips is bigger than the others and so on. Every Linux doc says that bogomips are just that, "bogus" and that people should not take them in consideration. Even with that -- I know, newbies don't read docs -- we see in the "fr.comp.os.linux" group people talking about them as if they were Words Of Truth from time to time... even though it seems to happen less often now. We don't really need that at all IMO. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #7: Mon Nov 6 21:08:06 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 13:06:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA03744 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:06:18 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03737 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:06:10 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA26736; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:08:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:08:15 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511072108.OAA26736@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511072037.NAA18262@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199511071957.MAA26537@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199511072037.NAA18262@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > [ ... "why should we have a 'COMPAT_NETBSD' option" ... ] > > TL> Linux DOSEMU. Other VM86(). > > TL> Why would "general NetBSD user binary emulation" require any kernel > TL> options at all? > JH> This is going to be solved by adding general NetBSD user binary > JH> emulation? Helloooooo Terry!! :) > > NW> Because DOSEMU requires *LOTS* of kernel changes for VM86. No userland > NW> code would work w/out the kernel mods. Also, last time I looked VM86() > NW> support *still* isn't in the release kernel, and I don't know if the > NW> patches still being kept up-to-date. > > So you are agreeing with me... the "Linux DOSEMU. Other VM86()." is > mine. The ""'ed material in my previous post was from Jordan. I was > responding to the implication that "general NetBSD user binary emulation" > doesn't mean the ability to run NetBSD binaries like DOSEMU in Jordan's > opinion. Different definitions of "general". > > I think it's valid to consider the "*LOTS* of kernel changes for VM86" > as a candidate for "options COMPAT_NETBSD" (the original point of > discussion in this thread being "should we have a COMPAT_NETBSD?"). Ahh, but this is different than adding some simple 'COMPAT_NETBSD' options. You are asking for a complete re-write of the low-level i86 handling code, and this can't be done 'simply' by adding a couple ifdefs here and there. > Unless the changes are going to be rolled in as general FreeBSD > features (any takers?). The VM86() changes *can't* be rolled into FreeBSD in any shape or form as they currently stand (or stood as of March). > If the patches aren't in the source tree, then they are definitely > not being kept up to date. That's the problem with patches that > don't go into the source tree. The VM86() patches aren't up to date with respect to the NetBSD kernel, let alone the FreeBSD kernel AFAIK. I've got the VM86() patches and the NetBSD tree which they patched against stored away somewhere, but when I attempted to roll the patches in FreeBSD the x86 code in FreeBSD and NetBSD are so *radically* different that it wasn't going to happen. > The NetBSD "thread environment" consists of both CAP's pthreads code > AND a thread safe libc, etc.. Umm, NetBSD's library is *NOT* thread safe at this stage of the game. I watch the commit list, an no thread changes have been made to the library in the last 5 months. > Which means that instead of the one example Jordan cited (AFS) of a > a desirable piece of NetBSD-only code, the tally is up to a minimum > of three: AFS, JAVA, World21. I think the actual number is higher. AFS is a kernel mod, JAVA doesn't (yet) exist and the work done to build a thread-safe library more easily be done in FreeBSD than trying to do NetBSD emulation mode. World21 ??? > To think that FreeBSD cannot benefit from NetBSD ABI support but > NetBSD can benefit from FreeBSD ABI support is Hubris on the part > of the FreeBSD camp. You still haven't convinced me that the amount of work is worth the effort. I think you're trivializing the amount of work necessary to do anything significant, and making what I consider trivial work to be something much more difficult. VM86 == Lots of work libc thread safe == Little work Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 13:11:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA03919 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:11:52 -0800 Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA03910 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:11:46 -0800 Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tCvIz-0009Z7C; Tue, 7 Nov 95 13:11 PST Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:11:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Joe Diehl cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Insight ft tape drive In-Reply-To: <199511072036.OAA28249@bilbo.me.ksu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Joe Diehl wrote: > Hello all! > > I rescently started maintaining the ft driver and had a question for > all of you. Do you use, or know anyone who uses an Insight tape drive? > > Or more generally, anyone that needs the flag 1 in order for their > tape drive to be probed successfully? > > Thanks > Wow, finally someone maintaining the ft driver! Good luck! Actually, I had been planning for a while to try to port the Linux FTAPE driver over to FreeBSD because it has much better support for different devices and doesn't require a user-mode hack program like "ft" to do half the work. The problem right now is that you can't store multiple archives on a tape and use a command like "mt" to position the head at a certain one, just having this support would make a world of difference. Also, I don't think the current driver works very well with the DC2120XL 170MB extended-length tapes, and I'm positive it won't like the new 400MB Travan tapes. Just adding this support would be nice. Let me know if you'd like to work on this (porting FTAPE or just fixing our existing driver) as a team. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 13:23:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA04288 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:23:21 -0800 Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA04279 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:23:14 -0800 Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tCvU9-0009YfC; Tue, 7 Nov 95 13:23 PST Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:23:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Is this another FreeBSD-emulating-BSDI bug with Netscape 2.0b2: Any graphic that is supposed to be updated regularly (blinking cursor, animated Netscape icon, or blinking tags in text) will not update when I run Netscape 2.0b2 in FreeBSD... UNLESS either: 1) The mouse is in motion (and then it updates slowly) OR 2) There is network activity (Netscape is currently downloading a page). I'm sure this is affecting everyone, right? ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 13:45:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA05144 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:45:33 -0800 Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.9.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA05138 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:45:29 -0800 Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id PAA03001 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:45:26 -0600 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:45:26 -0600 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199511072145.PAA03001@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Recommendations for 10mbps/full duplex ethernet cards Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Do you have any recommendations for 10mbps full duplex ethernet cards? Either isa or pci cards are fine, I am looking for something that will work with 10baseT and full duplex ethernet switches. Thanks, -Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 14:41:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA07043 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:41:14 -0800 Received: from io.org (io.org [142.77.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA07035 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:41:05 -0800 Received: from flinch.io.org (flinch.io.org [198.133.36.153]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA13411; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:39:32 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:39:32 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Joe Greco cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: PCI RAID Controller... In-Reply-To: <199511071706.LAA18428@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > In a similar vein, anyone working on support for the DPT caching > > controllers? I hear you can put something like 64 megs of RAM on the > > thing and it screams quite loudly in things like news servers. :) > > There are Linux drivers for it, apparently, so the programming > > information is available. > > Where can I get more info?? :-) I might as well post this back to the list for all those interested: Distributed Processing Technology (DPT-DOM) 140 Candace Dr Maitland, FL 32751 Domain Name: DPT.COM The have a Web page under construction at www.dpt.com with the following information: Sales: 1-800-322-4378, sales@dpt.com Tech: 1-407-830-5522 E-mail: support@dpt.com -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 15:14:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA08250 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:14:34 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA08217 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:14:08 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA07548; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:13:22 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA11079; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:13:22 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA24466; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:04:09 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511072304.AAA24466@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: What happens to terminal settings on last close? To: grog@lemis.de Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:04:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511071326.OAA05257@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Nov 7, 95 02:26:21 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 555 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > This is different from the standard BSD behaviour, which leaves the > terminal flags the way they are on the last close, but it's the same > as System V behaviour. Is it intentional or accidental? What do you > think it should do? Read the paragraph about ``initial'' and ``lock'' devices in sio(4). They're mainly a workaround for poor software (like getty(8)). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 16:32:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA10387 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:32:17 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA10368 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:31:57 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA05119; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:26:23 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511080026.AAA05119@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linux emul, QMAGIC libs To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:26:23 +0000 () Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511071339.FAA18576@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@FreeBSD.ORG" at Nov 7, 95 05:39:59 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1850 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk sos@FreeBSD.ORG stands accused of saying: > > OK, so, now I have your head out of your hole 8), can you explain why > > Linux seems to have the organisation of ZMAGIC and QMAGIC backwards wrt. > > the way FreeBSD does it? > > I'm not sure I understand what you mean by backwards ?? Backwards was the wrong word to use (thinko on my part), the discrepancy is simpler than that : Linux code (both imgact and uselib) say : ZMAGIC(0413): virtual_offset = 0, file_offset = 1024 QMAGIC(0314): virtual_offset = 4096, file_offset = 0 FreeBSD imgact says : ZMAGIC(0413): virtual_offset = 0, file_offset = 4096 QMAGIC(0314): virtual_offset = 4096, file_offset = 0 Is this simply a case of Linux being "close but not quite"? > Hmm, I have to go check the code (both linux & ours) to speculate > on this one, my best guess would be that the Linux ZMAGIC shlibs > is a bit different than the "normal" ZMAGIC format, and therefore > fails (that would also be in the linux spirit: close but not quite) Linux ZMAGIC shlibs work fine; but if either ld.so or the library are QMAGIC, everything falls apart. I'm really enthused about this at the moment, as if we can sort these wrinkles out, we (our organisation) stand to save _lots_ of money, and use lots more FreeBSD machines 8) If there's anything I can do to help, please let me know; your work has already been immensely useful to us! > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 16:49:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA11009 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:49:24 -0800 Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA11004 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:49:22 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA16967 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:48:47 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199511080048.QAA16967@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:48:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199511070650.HAA25533@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 7, 95 07:50:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 614 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > ! char result[127]; > > > > Ye gods, was that really it?! > > When looking around on the Usenix ftp server, i've stumpled across a > paper called `canthappen[.ps.Z]'. It's titled > > Can't Happen > or > /* NOTREACHED */ > or > Real Programs Dump Core > > One of the rules: Avoid magic numbers... Or, as John Ousterhout calls them, "voodoo constants" ... :-) -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 17:31:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA11882 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:31:57 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA11877 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:31:50 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA18699; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:28:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080128.SAA18699@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:28:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Nov 7, 95 01:23:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 776 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is this another FreeBSD-emulating-BSDI bug with Netscape 2.0b2: > > Any graphic that is supposed to be updated regularly (blinking cursor, > animated Netscape icon, or blinking tags in text) will not update when I > run Netscape 2.0b2 in FreeBSD... UNLESS either: > > 1) The mouse is in motion (and then it updates slowly) OR > 2) There is network activity (Netscape is currently downloading a page). > > I'm sure this is affecting everyone, right? I believe this is another select() timeout/itimer interaction. Has anyone looked at BSDI's default siginterrupt/syscall restart options since the last time we talked about this? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 17:41:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA12088 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:41:42 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA12082 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:41:36 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA18685; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:26:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080126.SAA18685@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:26:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511072108.OAA26736@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 7, 95 02:08:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3135 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I think it's valid to consider the "*LOTS* of kernel changes for VM86" > > as a candidate for "options COMPAT_NETBSD" (the original point of > > discussion in this thread being "should we have a COMPAT_NETBSD?"). > > Ahh, but this is different than adding some simple 'COMPAT_NETBSD' > options. You are asking for a complete re-write of the low-level i86 > handling code, and this can't be done 'simply' by adding a couple ifdefs > here and there. Well, the real point is, why the hell would anyone #ifdef it if they did the work, since they'd only be diking out stuff that's useful in general, not just for NetBSD emulation. > The VM86() changes *can't* be rolled into FreeBSD in any shape or form > as they currently stand (or stood as of March). They didn't operate as of when they were created? > The VM86() patches aren't up to date with respect to the NetBSD kernel, > let alone the FreeBSD kernel AFAIK. I've got the VM86() patches and the > NetBSD tree which they patched against stored away somewhere, but when I > attempted to roll the patches in FreeBSD the x86 code in FreeBSD and > NetBSD are so *radically* different that it wasn't going to happen. Yah. I saw a lot of differences in the page table stuff. It was annoying; I didn't see any real reason for the change in FreeBSD in that area since about May (or June?). The biggest problem was duplicate rather than inline code for the debugger support. I guess this is a problem in having it possible to disable the kernel pieces. I think the space savings are a false economy that end up costing more in the long run in needing multiple maintainers. Not to mention kernel rebuilds to get features that shouldn't be switched at compile time anyway. 8-(. > Umm, NetBSD's library is *NOT* thread safe at this stage of the game. > I watch the commit list, an no thread changes have been made to the > library in the last 5 months. I've been talking once or twice (ie: not in good contact) with the JAVA porter for NetBSD, and he indicated changes had been made. I don't know how closely their -current echoes their intended Nov 17th release code base... maybe not very closely at all. If that's the case, then an interested party would have to wait for them to check in the changes. > AFS is a kernel mod, JAVA doesn't (yet) exist and the work done to build > a thread-safe library more easily be done in FreeBSD than trying to do > NetBSD emulation mode. World21 ??? In order: AFS the kernel mod requires a NetBSD kernel emulation environment for at least the "cookie" differences on lookup (COMPAT_NETBSD). Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library instead of using the NetBSD effort toget JAVA running (they also heavily modified JAVA to *use* a user space threads, BTW) seems like NIH. World21 is a kernel module that overwrites the console driver for support of ISO2022 and JIS208+212. It was the first third party LKM for NetBSD. It would also require a kernel emulation environment. (COMPAT_NETBSD). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 17:57:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA12574 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:57:29 -0800 Received: from werple.net.au (0@werple.mira.net.au [203.9.190.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA12566 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:57:17 -0800 Received: from cimaxp1.UUCP (Ucimlogi@localhost) by werple.net.au (8.7/8.7.1) with UUCP id MAA06138 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:34:01 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199511080134.MAA06138@werple.net.au> X-Authentication-Warning: werple.net.au: Ucimlogi set sender to cimaxp1!jb using -f Received: by cimaxp1.cimlogic.com.au; (5.65/1.1.8.2/10Sep95-0953AM) id AA01788; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:37:25 +1100 From: John Birrell Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: lambert.org!terry@werple.net.au (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:37:24 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199511072037.NAA18262@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 7, 95 01:37:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > If you don't want kernel examples (ie: AFS was a bad example), then > > > what about NetBSD's thread environment for their JAVA port? > > > > What thread environment? You mean CAP's, which is also available for > > FreeBSD? > > The NetBSD "thread environment" consists of both CAP's pthreads code > AND a thread safe libc, etc.. My understanding of the way things are: NetBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's thread safe libc. FreeBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's thread safe libc. In either case, the threaded {Free,Net}BSD program's operating system compatibility is the same as if the program is not threaded. So this *thread* (of discussion) should leave out any reference to threads in either FreeBSD or NetBSD. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 9600 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 18:05:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA12927 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:05:56 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA12922 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:05:55 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA03447; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:04:47 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511080204.SAA03447@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:04:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511080126.SAA18685@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 7, 95 06:26:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 718 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Umm, NetBSD's library is *NOT* thread safe at this stage of the game. > > I watch the commit list, an no thread changes have been made to the > > library in the last 5 months. > > I've been talking once or twice (ie: not in good contact) with the > JAVA porter for NetBSD, and he indicated changes had been made. I > don't know how closely their -current echoes their intended Nov 17th > release code base... maybe not very closely at all. > there are thread-safe libc mods being worked up at the moment for FreeBSD The first rounds will be trickling in soon for commit they will initially be #ifdef _THREAD_SAFE_ guarded, and used to make a libc_r, but they willprobably be merged whe they are proven. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 19:02:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA14709 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:02:41 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA14704 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:02:35 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA02081; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:01:53 -0800 To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) cc: Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 22:46:19 +0300." Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 19:01:53 -0800 Message-ID: <2079.815799713@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Better solution for it will be passing NULL pointer to dialog functions > because you not use result[] at all and make them understand NULL > pointer there. Well, while we're wishing here.. :-) A *far far* better solution would be to be able to add callbacks for each item created, then I'd never even need to parse that &%^%$*!! result string at all! The original dialog/libdialog was designed for use from shell scripts, and not from C. The shortcomings of this are obvious. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 19:14:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA15042 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:14:30 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA15037 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:14:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA02227; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:13:29 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 13:37:03 MST." <199511072037.NAA18262@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 19:13:29 -0800 Message-ID: <2225.815800409@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Which means that instead of the one example Jordan cited (AFS) of a > a desirable piece of NetBSD-only code, the tally is up to a minimum > of three: AFS, JAVA, World21. I think the actual number is higher. This depends on how you count them up. 1. An AFS is underway for FreeBSD and should be finished fairly soon. 2. We need to integrate our own pthreads support badly enough that JAVA would better serve as incentive for a native port. I don't think that pursuing NetBSD ABI emulation to that end is the best use of resources. 3. The World21 LKM really needs to be ported. > To think that FreeBSD cannot benefit from NetBSD ABI support but > NetBSD can benefit from FreeBSD ABI support is Hubris on the part > of the FreeBSD camp. I didn't say "can not benefit", I said "wouldn't benefit enough." I don't think this is hubris so much as it is a logical appraisal of where best to apply our limited engineering resources. We need native pthreads and AFS support, and I think the World21 LKM would be easier to maintain as an actual FreeBSD LKM. Rather than chasing NetBSD compliance in service of these goals, we should go directly past Go and collect $200. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 19:24:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA15316 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:24:37 -0800 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA15309 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:24:28 -0800 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16832 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:23:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id WAA09684; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:23:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:23:52 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@cappuccino.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: gdb Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was just noticing the announcement about the latest version of gdb being avilable, and it made me wonder howcome, when gdb is customized for so many differenct environments, how come they don't include stuff so that it would work out of the box on FreeBSD? I'm not suggesting an immediate port, I know that sometimes these things need testing. Like the reason we don't run gcc 2.7.0, so I wouldn't suggest that. It's just that I was wanting to bring up a tk (not tcl, just tk) interface to gdb, but I can't, because it is tightly integrated into the gdb build, and gdb won't build for us. Couldn't someone who knows the reasons why, communicate them to Cygnus, and get us on their list of supported systems? ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Here's OJ's internet address in hex code: 00 2F 2F 2F 2F 5C 7F 2D 0D 15 1B 19 24 24 24 18 If you can't recall the translation, here it is: null character, slash, slash, slash, slash, backslash, rubout, dash, carriage return, negative acknowledgement, escape, end of media, dollar sign, dollar sign, dollar sign, cancel From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 19:43:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA15683 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:43:59 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA15678 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:43:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA02376; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:43:36 -0800 To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 13:23:12 PST." Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 19:43:36 -0800 Message-ID: <2373.815802216@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't visit any pages with blinking text in them, so I can't verify it.. :-) Send me a URL where this happens and I'll give it a look. I certainly haven't noticed anything like this myself. BTW, has anyone looked at some of the new features in 2.0b2? The scripting features and the "frames" look *really* promising. I went through their little "recruitment service" demo and was pretty impressed. These people are going to take over the world. I want some stock! :-) Jordan > Is this another FreeBSD-emulating-BSDI bug with Netscape 2.0b2: > > Any graphic that is supposed to be updated regularly (blinking cursor, > animated Netscape icon, or blinking tags in text) will not update when I > run Netscape 2.0b2 in FreeBSD... UNLESS either: > > 1) The mouse is in motion (and then it updates slowly) OR > 2) There is network activity (Netscape is currently downloading a page). > > I'm sure this is affecting everyone, right? > > ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 20:09:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA17012 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:09:20 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA16999 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:09:11 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA19043; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:04:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080404.VAA19043@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au (John Birrell) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:04:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199511080134.MAA06137@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Nov 8, 95 12:37:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 622 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The NetBSD "thread environment" consists of both CAP's pthreads code > > AND a thread safe libc, etc.. > > My understanding of the way things are: > > NetBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's thread safe > libc. > > FreeBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's thread safe > libc. Your understanding is incorrect according to Julian's post under this same subject. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 20:17:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA17621 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:17:17 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA17610 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:17:07 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA19096; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:13:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080413.VAA19096@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:13:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2225.815800409@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 7, 95 07:13:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1371 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Which means that instead of the one example Jordan cited (AFS) of a > > a desirable piece of NetBSD-only code, the tally is up to a minimum > > of three: AFS, JAVA, World21. I think the actual number is higher. > > This depends on how you count them up. > > 1. An AFS is underway for FreeBSD and should be finished fairly soon. This is news (good news!). > 2. We need to integrate our own pthreads support badly enough that JAVA > would better serve as incentive for a native port. I don't think that > pursuing NetBSD ABI emulation to that end is the best use of resources. This is a misunderstanding. JAVA will *not* work, as shipped by Sun, with pthreads or other user space threading system. The port to a user space threading model is being done to Linux and SunOS, and a NetBSD-specific port is being done in parallel. You misunderstand if you believe the changes are being rolled all at once, or that they will be any more directly applicable to FreeBSD than the NetBSD DOSEMU changes. JAVA has expectations that won't be that easily satisfied. > 3. The World21 LKM really needs to be ported. Or abstracted entirely from system dependencies. I guess you could call this a "port" as well, techincally. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 20:19:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA17811 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:19:22 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA17803 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:19:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA02628; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:18:42 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 18:26:42 MST." <199511080126.SAA18685@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 20:18:42 -0800 Message-ID: <2626.815804322@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library instead of using the NetBSD > effort toget JAVA running (they also heavily modified JAVA to *use* > a user space threads, BTW) seems like NIH. Hardly! Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library gives you a thread-safe library and JAVA. Implementing NetBSD support to give you JAVA gives you only JAVA. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that "1 + 1 = 2" and "1 + 0 = 1" Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 20:37:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA19033 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:37:54 -0800 Received: from user32.lightside.com (user30.lightside.com [198.81.209.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA19016 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:37:42 -0800 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by user32.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA00507; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:39:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:38:47 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 In-Reply-To: <2373.815802216@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I don't visit any pages with blinking text in them, so I can't > verify it.. :-) > > Send me a URL where this happens and I'll give it a look. I certainly > haven't noticed anything like this myself. It isn't just blinking text (although if you want a cool example, try the Netscape Hall of Shame: http://www.meat.com/netscape_hos.html and click on "Blink Sink"). Another thing which is supposed to blink (but in FreeBSD does not) is the insertion point in the currently active TextField (for example, in the Location box at the top, or in a fill-out form). The really weird thing is when you go to a page that blinks (or are watching the insertion point blink), it blinks as long as it is still in the process of downloading something. As soon as everything is finished, it stops! Then, if you wiggle the mouse back and forth really quick, it starts blinking again, but the speed depending on how fast you move the mouse.. Weird, eh? > BTW, has anyone looked at some of the new features in 2.0b2? The > scripting features and the "frames" look *really* promising. I went > through their little "recruitment service" demo and was pretty > impressed. > > These people are going to take over the world. I want some > stock! :-) > > Jordan No doubt! Actually, frames aren't too impressive compared to Java (when it gets stable enough and is supported in FreeBSD), the improved bookmark editor, FTP transfers automatically opening a separate progress meter (these last two were first introduced in Netscape for Windows 1.2 btw), better USENET reader, mail reader, and plug-ins! Boy, so many features, so little time (to debug them all!) Already, I must have reported six or seven bugs already... I just hope they fix 'em all! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 20:42:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA19419 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:42:22 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA19404 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:42:13 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA02812; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:40:47 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, graichen@sirius.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 21:13:02 MST." <199511080413.VAA19096@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 20:40:47 -0800 Message-ID: <2810.815805647@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > JAVA will *not* work, as shipped by Sun, with pthreads or other user space > threading system. > > The port to a user space threading model is being done to Linux and SunOS, > and a NetBSD-specific port is being done in parallel. I understand this. But it doesn't mean that we can't (or shouldn't) do our own port. I have the sources to Java, as do a number of others, and once pthreads are in FreeBSD you may rest assured that we'll be doing it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:03:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA21422 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:03:26 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21413 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:03:22 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02874; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:03:00 -0800 To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, x_cbug@netscape.com Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 20:38:47 PST." Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 21:03:00 -0800 Message-ID: <2872.815806980@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It isn't just blinking text (although if you want a cool example, try the > Netscape Hall of Shame: http://www.meat.com/netscape_hos.html and click > on "Blink Sink"). Another thing which is supposed to blink (but in > FreeBSD does not) is the insertion point in the currently active > TextField (for example, in the Location box at the top, or in a fill-out > form). OK, I just verified this. You're right! I even know what's happening, though not exactly why. The event loop select()'s on the X / network sockets and also sets a timeout (or *should*) for processing any interval tasks, like blinking. Apparently, it's not falling out of select on the timeout to the blink task and it requires some other event on one of the selected fds before the blink task can run. I actually kinda doubt that this is a FreeBSD specific problem. It's more likely something in the Motif or Xt libraries they're using. I'd lean towards Xt since that's where XtAppAddTimeout() lives, unless Motif has added a wrapper function for this in 2.0. It could also be an application side error in Netscape itself. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:04:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA21519 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:04:04 -0800 Received: from netscape.com (starfish.netscape.com [205.217.237.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21505 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:04:01 -0800 Received: (from bugusr@localhost) by netscape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA04266; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:02:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:02:57 -0800 From: Bug Daemon Message-Id: <199511080502.VAA04266@netscape.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <2872.815806980@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <2872.815806980@time.cdrom.com> Subject: Bug Feedback X-Loop: bugusr@netscape.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Netscape Navigator user, We sincerely appreciate the feedback you have sent us. We apologize that we cannot respond to each of you personally, as we receive a tremendous amount of mail. All of your feedback is being read and carefully considered. Please continue to send us your bug reports, comments, and feature requests. We've made a series of improvements for support of paying customers, including the establishment of client@netscape.com and server@netscape.com with one business day turnaround time. For other contact information, please email info@netscape.com (an autoreply message). We hope you will be pleased with the new features and bug fixes of forthcoming releases of Netscape. Thank you, The Netscape team From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:30:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23012 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:30:18 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23005 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:30:06 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA27944; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:32:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:32:00 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511080532.WAA27944@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511080126.SAA18685@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199511072108.OAA26736@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199511080126.SAA18685@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > I think it's valid to consider the "*LOTS* of kernel changes for VM86" > > > as a candidate for "options COMPAT_NETBSD" (the original point of > > > discussion in this thread being "should we have a COMPAT_NETBSD?"). > > > > Ahh, but this is different than adding some simple 'COMPAT_NETBSD' > > options. You are asking for a complete re-write of the low-level i86 > > handling code, and this can't be done 'simply' by adding a couple ifdefs > > here and there. > > Well, the real point is, why the hell would anyone #ifdef it if they > did the work, since they'd only be diking out stuff that's useful in > general, not just for NetBSD emulation. Correct. Getting the stuff working in *any* shape is mondo-work. > > The VM86() changes *can't* be rolled into FreeBSD in any shape or form > > as they currently stand (or stood as of March). > > They didn't operate as of when they were created? They were created for NetBSD, which does it's x86 *completely* different from the way FreeBSD does it. And, the VM86() mods have not been kept up to date and are not in the NetBSD kernel as far as I know. > > The VM86() patches aren't up to date with respect to the NetBSD kernel, > > let alone the FreeBSD kernel AFAIK. I've got the VM86() patches and the > > NetBSD tree which they patched against stored away somewhere, but when I > > attempted to roll the patches in FreeBSD the x86 code in FreeBSD and > > NetBSD are so *radically* different that it wasn't going to happen. > > Yah. I saw a lot of differences in the page table stuff. It was > annoying; I didn't see any real reason for the change in FreeBSD in > that area since about May (or June?). There weren't any changes made. When the 4.4Lite -> FreeBSD 2.X diffs were made the x86 trees were radically different already, so the problems weren't 'added' recently. The differences in how we do x86 stuff goes way back. > The biggest problem was duplicate rather than inline code for the > debugger support. I guess this is a problem in having it possible > to disable the kernel pieces. I think the space savings are a > false economy that end up costing more in the long run in needing > multiple maintainers. Not to mention kernel rebuilds to get features > that shouldn't be switched at compile time anyway. 8-(. Huh? > > Umm, NetBSD's library is *NOT* thread safe at this stage of the game. > > I watch the commit list, an no thread changes have been made to the > > library in the last 5 months. > > I've been talking once or twice (ie: not in good contact) with the > JAVA porter for NetBSD, and he indicated changes had been made. Nothing was mentioned in the source commits. This isn't to say they haven't been done, but the commit messages haven't lead me to believe those changes have been made. As a matter of fact, *very* few changes have been made to the generic libraries. > I don't know how closely their -current echoes their intended Nov 17th > release code base... maybe not very closely at all. Commits aren't made to the code base. The release code is in a separate branch, so commits made won't necessarily be in the release tree. > Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library instead of using the NetBSD > effort toget JAVA running (they also heavily modified JAVA to *use* > a user space threads, BTW) seems like NIH. Jordan already pointed this out, but FreeBSD needs a thread safe library for it's own use aside from Java. And, we can grab the modified JAVA code once they've got it working in any case. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:42:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23323 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:42:16 -0800 Received: from werple.net.au (0@werple.mira.net.au [203.9.190.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23312 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:42:07 -0800 Received: from cimaxp1.UUCP (Ucimlogi@localhost) by werple.net.au (8.7/8.7.1) with UUCP id QAA16177 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:08:50 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199511080508.QAA16177@werple.net.au> X-Authentication-Warning: werple.net.au: Ucimlogi set sender to cimaxp1!jb using -f Received: by cimaxp1.cimlogic.com.au; (5.65/1.1.8.2/10Sep95-0953AM) id AA02591; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:12:39 +1100 From: John Birrell Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: lambert.org!terry@werple.net.au (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:12:37 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199511080404.VAA19043@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 7, 95 09:04:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>> The NetBSD "thread environment" consists of both CAP's pthreads code >>> AND a thread safe libc, etc.. >> >> My understanding of the way things are: >> >> NetBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's thread safe >> libc. >> >> FreeBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's thread safe >> libc. > > Your understanding is incorrect according to Julian's post under this > same subject. Not it's not! What Julian mentioned is what _we_ are currently doing. As far as 2.0 and 2.1 are concerned, pthreads is a port. For 2.2 I'm building a threaded libc here and feeding diffs to Julian for inclusion in the main tree when appropriate. I'm still talking with CAP about the integration of thread support in libc. This discussion includes Julian. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 9600 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:42:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23329 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:42:17 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23318 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:42:13 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA19254; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:37:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080537.WAA19254@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:37:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2626.815804322@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 7, 95 08:18:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 844 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library instead of using the NetBSD > > effort toget JAVA running (they also heavily modified JAVA to *use* > > a user space threads, BTW) seems like NIH. > > Hardly! Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library gives you a > thread-safe library and JAVA. Implementing NetBSD support to give you > JAVA gives you only JAVA. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist > to figure out that "1 + 1 = 2" and "1 + 0 = 1" Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library gives you a thread-safe library. Taking NetBSD's work after it's done gives you a thread-safe library. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see the duplication of effort in doing the same thing twice. ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:43:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23463 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:43:20 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23457 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:43:14 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA27987; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:45:20 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:45:20 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511080545.WAA27987@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511080404.VAA19043@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199511080134.MAA06137@werple.net.au> <199511080404.VAA19043@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > The NetBSD "thread environment" consists of both CAP's pthreads code > > > AND a thread safe libc, etc.. > > > > My understanding of the way things are: > > > > NetBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's thread safe > > libc. > > > > FreeBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's thread safe > > libc. > > Your understanding is incorrect according to Julian's post under this > same subject. Huh? Are you reading the same email I'm reading? Julian writes: > there are thread-safe libc mods being worked up at the moment for > FreeBSD The first rounds will be trickling in soon for commit > > they will initially be #ifdef _THREAD_SAFE_ guarded, and used to make > a libc_r, but they willprobably be merged whe they are proven. And, in an earlier post by Chris that was followed up by many folks he explained that he'd like his thread safe fixes to be merged into the standard library vs. being separate. The same changes are going into FreeBSD as you speak about in NetBSD. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:45:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23578 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:45:11 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23570 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:45:07 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA27991; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:47:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:47:15 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511080547.WAA27991@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511080537.WAA19254@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <2626.815804322@time.cdrom.com> <199511080537.WAA19254@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library gives you a thread-safe library. > > Taking NetBSD's work after it's done gives you a thread-safe library. > > I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see the duplication of > effort in doing the same thing twice. ;-). But the work in NetBSD isn't related to NetBSD. It's work that CAP has done for either group, so we're just bringing in the outside work in the same manner as NetBSD did. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there's more chance for errors getting the work second-hand when you can get it first-hand. *grin* Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:46:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23628 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:46:01 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23623 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:45:59 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA19287; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:42:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080542.WAA19287@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:42:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511080532.WAA27944@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 7, 95 10:32:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2006 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The VM86() patches aren't up to date with respect to the NetBSD kernel, > > > let alone the FreeBSD kernel AFAIK. I've got the VM86() patches and the > > > NetBSD tree which they patched against stored away somewhere, but when I > > > attempted to roll the patches in FreeBSD the x86 code in FreeBSD and > > > NetBSD are so *radically* different that it wasn't going to happen. > > > > Yah. I saw a lot of differences in the page table stuff. It was > > annoying; I didn't see any real reason for the change in FreeBSD in > > that area since about May (or June?). > > There weren't any changes made. When the 4.4Lite -> FreeBSD 2.X diffs > were made the x86 trees were radically different already, so the > problems weren't 'added' recently. The differences in how we do x86 > stuff goes way back. Jack Vogel's SMP patches did not apply cleanly to -current without a lot of work, in part because of the locore.s changes since June. > > The biggest problem was duplicate rather than inline code for the > > debugger support. I guess this is a problem in having it possible > > to disable the kernel pieces. I think the space savings are a > > false economy that end up costing more in the long run in needing > > multiple maintainers. Not to mention kernel rebuilds to get features > > that shouldn't be switched at compile time anyway. 8-(. > > Huh? Check the VM86() patches vs. the kernel debugger support. If you hand apply the patches, they work, but only if you don't build with debugging or profiling of the kernel enabled. Like Jack Vogel's SMP patches. > > I don't know how closely their -current echoes their intended Nov 17th > > release code base... maybe not very closely at all. > > Commits aren't made to the code base. The release code is in a separate > branch, so commits made won't necessarily be in the release tree. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:48:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23701 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:48:28 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23696 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:48:26 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA19303; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:44:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080544.WAA19303@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au (John Birrell) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:44:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199511080508.QAA16175@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Nov 8, 95 04:12:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 946 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> My understanding of the way things are: > >> > >> NetBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's > >> thread safe libc. > >> > >> FreeBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's > >> thread safe libc. > > > > Your understanding is incorrect according to Julian's post under this > > same subject. > > Not it's not! What Julian mentioned is what _we_ are currently doing. > As far as 2.0 and 2.1 are concerned, pthreads is a port. > > For 2.2 I'm building a threaded libc here and feeding diffs to Julian for > inclusion in the main tree when appropriate. I'm still talking with CAP about > the integration of thread support in libc. This discussion includes Julian. I meant with regard to the NetBSD and FreeBSD sources both being based on CAP's libc code. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:49:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23756 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:49:49 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23751 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:49:46 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA28024; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:51:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:51:56 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511080551.WAA28024@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511080542.WAA19287@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199511080532.WAA27944@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199511080542.WAA19287@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ NetBSD VM86() patches ] > > There weren't any changes made. When the 4.4Lite -> FreeBSD 2.X diffs > > were made the x86 trees were radically different already, so the > > problems weren't 'added' recently. The differences in how we do x86 > > stuff goes way back. > > Jack Vogel's SMP patches did not apply cleanly to -current without a > lot of work, in part because of the locore.s changes since June. Those changes are irrelevant to the discussion. I had problems in *March* because of the differences in the x86 support, let alone the differences that both camps have made since then. (I seem to remember lots of x86 changes related to emulation made in the low-level stuff) > > > The biggest problem was duplicate rather than inline code for the > > > debugger support. I guess this is a problem in having it possible > > > to disable the kernel pieces. I think the space savings are a > > > false economy that end up costing more in the long run in needing > > > multiple maintainers. Not to mention kernel rebuilds to get features > > > that shouldn't be switched at compile time anyway. 8-(. > > > > Huh? > > Check the VM86() patches vs. the kernel debugger support. If you hand > apply the patches, they work, but only if you don't build with debugging > or profiling of the kernel enabled. Umm, no. The changes affect much more than the kernel debugger support. I tried to do a quick and dirty port, but even that wasn't to be. But, then again I'm no kernel hacker, and have no desire to be one. (Though I'm *really* tempted to to go fix the darn arp bug I'm seeing, sigh...) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 21:56:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA23838 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:56:51 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA23832 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:56:48 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA19389; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:53:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080553.WAA19389@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:53:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, x_cbug@netscape.com In-Reply-To: <2872.815806980@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 7, 95 09:03:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2491 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It isn't just blinking text (although if you want a cool example, try the > > Netscape Hall of Shame: http://www.meat.com/netscape_hos.html and click > > on "Blink Sink"). Another thing which is supposed to blink (but in > > FreeBSD does not) is the insertion point in the currently active > > TextField (for example, in the Location box at the top, or in a fill-out > > form). > > OK, I just verified this. You're right! > > I even know what's happening, though not exactly why. The event loop > select()'s on the X / network sockets and also sets a timeout (or > *should*) for processing any interval tasks, like blinking. > Apparently, it's not falling out of select on the timeout to the blink > task and it requires some other event on one of the selected fds > before the blink task can run. > > I actually kinda doubt that this is a FreeBSD specific problem. It's > more likely something in the Motif or Xt libraries they're using. I'd > lean towards Xt since that's where XtAppAddTimeout() lives, unless > Motif has added a wrapper function for this in 2.0. It could also be > an application side error in Netscape itself. Foo! Once again: Look at the state of system call restart after SIGALRM on setitimer() for BSDI vs. FreeBSD in BSDI compatability mode. If the select() is interrupted by the alarm, the select timeout never occurs. If it is restarted, then the timeout will occur as expected without interference by the interval timer. In "man 2 sigaction": If a signal is caught during the system calls listed below, the call may be forced to terminate with the error EINTR, the call may return with a data transfer shorter than requested, or the call may be restarted. Restart of pending calls is requested by setting the SA_RESTART bit in sa_flags. The affected system calls include open(2), read(2), write(2), sendto(2), recvfrom(2), sendmsg(2) and recvmsg(2) on a communications channel or a slow device (such as a terminal, but not a regular file) and during a wait(2) or ioctl(2). However, calls that have already committed are not restarted, but instead return a partial success (for example, a short read count). Add select(2) to the list of affected system calls, and set the SA_RESTART in sa_flags for the default for the BSDI execution class. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 22:01:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA23944 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:01:45 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23939 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:01:42 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA19408; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:58:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511080558.WAA19408@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:58:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511080551.WAA28024@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 7, 95 10:51:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2333 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > There weren't any changes made. When the 4.4Lite -> FreeBSD 2.X diffs > > > were made the x86 trees were radically different already, so the > > > problems weren't 'added' recently. The differences in how we do x86 > > > stuff goes way back. > > > > Jack Vogel's SMP patches did not apply cleanly to -current without a > > lot of work, in part because of the locore.s changes since June. > > Those changes are irrelevant to the discussion. I had problems in > *March* because of the differences in the x86 support, let alone the > differences that both camps have made since then. (I seem to remember > lots of x86 changes related to emulation made in the low-level stuff) Except as testimony to the fact that the changes don't go all the way back to 4.4Lite. > > > > The biggest problem was duplicate rather than inline code for the > > > > debugger support. I guess this is a problem in having it possible > > > > to disable the kernel pieces. I think the space savings are a > > > > false economy that end up costing more in the long run in needing > > > > multiple maintainers. Not to mention kernel rebuilds to get features > > > > that shouldn't be switched at compile time anyway. 8-(. > > > > > > Huh? > > > > Check the VM86() patches vs. the kernel debugger support. If you hand > > apply the patches, they work, but only if you don't build with debugging > > or profiling of the kernel enabled. > > Umm, no. The changes affect much more than the kernel debugger support. > I tried to do a quick and dirty port, but even that wasn't to be. But, > then again I'm no kernel hacker, and have no desire to be one. (Though The debugger and profiling support seem to be the larges area of duplicated code, and it's the duplicated code as well as the semantic changes that make the application of the patches unclean. If all you had to do was "do the same stuff, but do it in the new code", then it'd be an easy hack. As it is, it's not an easy hack because of the conditional replacement code that should probably be default but switched in all cases. > I'm *really* tempted to to go fix the darn arp bug I'm seeing, sigh...) Do it! You'll sleep better. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 22:06:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA24088 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:06:36 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA24079 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:06:27 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA28061; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:08:34 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:08:34 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511080608.XAA28061@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511080558.WAA19408@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199511080551.WAA28024@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199511080558.WAA19408@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > There weren't any changes made. When the 4.4Lite -> FreeBSD 2.X diffs > > > > were made the x86 trees were radically different already, so the > > > > problems weren't 'added' recently. The differences in how we do x86 > > > > stuff goes way back. > > > > > > Jack Vogel's SMP patches did not apply cleanly to -current without a > > > lot of work, in part because of the locore.s changes since June. > > > > Those changes are irrelevant to the discussion. I had problems in > > *March* because of the differences in the x86 support, let alone the > > differences that both camps have made since then. (I seem to remember > > lots of x86 changes related to emulation made in the low-level stuff) > > Except as testimony to the fact that the changes don't go all the way > back to 4.4Lite. The changes I'm speaking of do. What I'm *attempting* to say is that the NetBSD changes to add VM86() support are: 1) Not portable to any version FreeBSD 2) No longer portable to NetBSD That's all. VM86() code is your holy grail, and you are using it to make points that aren't relevant to it. I'm trying to inject a little bit of factual information into the discussion to bring out the fact that VM86() is *still* non-trivial to do, even given the NetBSD code. {Especially for a non-kernel weenie like myself} Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 22:20:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA24417 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:20:30 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA24412 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:20:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA03350; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:19:51 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jehamby@lightside.com, x_cbug@netscape.com Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 22:53:27 MST." <199511080553.WAA19389@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 22:19:51 -0800 Message-ID: <3348.815811591@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Look at the state of system call restart after SIGALRM on setitimer() > for BSDI vs. FreeBSD in BSDI compatability mode. If they're using setitimer() instead of a timeout to select(), that'd be unbelievably mutant. What makes you think they're doing it that way? Signal handling in X applications is something to be avoided, not embraced. I've done "blinking" just fine with the supplied (non-signal using) timers in other applications. [Note: We should probably take x_cbug out of the Cc line if this is going to turn into a debate! :)] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 22:30:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA24646 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:30:15 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA24641 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:30:12 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA06277 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:25:03 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511080625.GAA06277@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Would like cdev major for driver... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:25:03 +0000 () MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1404 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Greetings people. Finally, after far too much prevarication with user-mode IO on a card that Just Doesn't Work Like That, I've decided to do things properly and write a Real Driver (tm) for it. Amazingly enough, it works, at least so far 8) (The card is a digital I/O card, and I'm only using a very limited subset of its functionality, but the card is fast, common, cheap and flexible, so it may well be hacked on by others wanting this sort of thing.) Anyway, blather aside, I've been okayed to release the driver under the BSD copyright, and I feel it may eventually be useful to someone, so I'd like to request a cdev major number for it. If any more details are required, feel free to ask. Julian - if you've finalised a skeleton for devfs-ing drivers, I'll happily bolt it in. We'll be using this with 2.1 systems though, so I'd still like a non- -conflicting major. (ps. to the DDWG author; you ought to mention editing conf.c and files.386 if you haven't already, it's been a while since I last looked.) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 22:48:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA25063 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:48:17 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA25058 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:48:13 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA00431; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:47:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199511080647.WAA00431@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 22:51:56 MST." <199511080551.WAA28024@rocky.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 22:46:54 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Nate Williams said: > [ NetBSD VM86() patches ] Well the VM86 stuff when I first took a look at it did not look that difficult. Actually, I am very surprised that it has not been ported to FreeBSD. Also, I am very sure that if the people arguing about this get together we can have VM86 emulation in a couple of days. Oops , Sorry guys I can't stay too much here got some sound driver hacking to do for my brand spanky new sound card which supports full duplex audio 8) Have fun guys, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 23:53:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA26316 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:53:57 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA26310 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:53:52 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA06456 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:49:00 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511080749.HAA06456@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: ioctl() question... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:49:00 +0000 () MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 985 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk A device-driver level question : I have some ioctls : struct buf { u_short count, timeout, status; u_short data[256]; } #define GETSTUFF _IOR('p', 15, struct buf) #define PUTSTUFF _IOW('p', 16, struct buf) #define PUTSTATUS _IOR('p', 17, int) Where PUTSTATUS gets the status of the last put operation. This is yucko and non-orthagonal, and I'd prefer to do #define PUTSTUFF _IOWR('p', 16, struct buf) but I'm ignorant of the relative merits wrt copyin/copyout time vs. syscall time. It's also possible that the data[] array may grow, although I'm trading off against read/write with that 8( -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 7 23:57:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA26406 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:57:11 -0800 Received: from werple.net.au (0@werple.mira.net.au [203.9.190.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA26401 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:57:08 -0800 Received: from cimaxp1.UUCP (Ucimlogi@localhost) by werple.net.au (8.7/8.7.1) with UUCP id SAA22790 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:35:05 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199511080735.SAA22790@werple.net.au> X-Authentication-Warning: werple.net.au: Ucimlogi set sender to cimaxp1!jb using -f Received: by cimaxp1.cimlogic.com.au; (5.65/1.1.8.2/10Sep95-0953AM) id AA03128; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:38:37 +1100 From: John Birrell Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: lambert.org!terry@werple.net.au (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:38:36 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199511080537.WAA19254@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 7, 95 10:37:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hardly! Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library gives you a > > thread-safe library and JAVA. Implementing NetBSD support to give you > > JAVA gives you only JAVA. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist > > to figure out that "1 + 1 = 2" and "1 + 0 = 1" > > Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library gives you a thread-safe library. Sigh.... Yes! So? > > Taking NetBSD's work after it's done gives you a thread-safe library. Where is the thread-safe NetBSD library? It's not _in_ NetBSD at the moment is it? Has there been an announcement that it will be in 1.2? In private mail the other day, CAP said he's talking to NetBSD about making their libc thread safe (like we're doing to FreeBSD's libc). > > I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see the duplication of > effort in doing the same thing twice. ;-). So that would be 2 * 1 = 2? Just checking. 8-). Well I'm certainly no rocket scientist, but if FreeBSD gets a thread safe version of libc before NetBSD even _agrees_ to make their libc thread safe, then who's duplicating effort. If NetBSD had a thread safe libc, I wouldn't be putting my time into doing it for FreeBSD. We've got a local NetBSD thread safe libc (for i386 & Alpha), but this means we have to maintain a _lot_ of code because it isn't easy to get things into NetBSD. Please don't use the issue of threads to justify adding COMPAT_NETBSD. Apart from threads, what is it about JAVA that means that FreeBSD should have COMPAT_NETBSD? So, having said all that, and having listened to argument for the sake of argument, I can't see that FreeBSD has anything to gain by adding some sort of NetBSD compatibility. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Now, if it were possible to build the FreeBSD libc for NetBSD, that'd save us a lot of grief. And then we'd probably find that 2 + 2 = 4, 2 * 2 = 4 _AND_ 2 ^ 2 = 4. 8-)>. -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 9600 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 00:22:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA26976 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:22:14 -0800 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA26965 ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:22:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199511080822.AAA26965@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Linux emul, QMAGIC libs To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:22:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511080026.AAA05119@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 8, 95 00:26:23 am From: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2170 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Michael Smith who wrote: > > Backwards was the wrong word to use (thinko on my part), the discrepancy is > simpler than that : > > Linux code (both imgact and uselib) say : > > ZMAGIC(0413): virtual_offset = 0, file_offset = 1024 > QMAGIC(0314): virtual_offset = 4096, file_offset = 0 > > FreeBSD imgact says : > > ZMAGIC(0413): virtual_offset = 0, file_offset = 4096 > QMAGIC(0314): virtual_offset = 4096, file_offset = 0 > > Is this simply a case of Linux being "close but not quite"? Precisely !, Linux's ZMAGIC binaries are loaded at an offset off 1024 into the file (requiring a VM system with a 1024byte granularity), which we cannot directly handle, thus the binary is loaded into memory in one go (no pageing etc) to accomplish this (I'm not sure how Linux handles this themselves). Linux QMAGIC files however aremuch like ours, and much easier to load (infact its pretty much the same code). Linux also has an old OMAGIC format, but thats even worse, and I think its obsolete (even in the Linux camp), so I left that one out. > > > Hmm, I have to go check the code (both linux & ours) to speculate > > on this one, my best guess would be that the Linux ZMAGIC shlibs > > is a bit different than the "normal" ZMAGIC format, and therefore > > fails (that would also be in the linux spirit: close but not quite) > > Linux ZMAGIC shlibs work fine; but if either ld.so or the library are QMAGIC, > everything falls apart. > > I'm really enthused about this at the moment, as if we can sort these wrinkles > out, we (our organisation) stand to save _lots_ of money, and use lots more > FreeBSD machines 8) See there a good insensitive !! :) > If there's anything I can do to help, please let me know; your work has > already been immensely useful to us! THanks !, I'll try look at it in the next couble of days, I'll let you know how it goes, and maybe you can be of help in providing some simple examples where it goes wrong.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 00:32:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA27290 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:32:23 -0800 Received: from Relay1.Austria.EU.net (relay1.Austria.EU.net [192.92.138.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA27285 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:32:19 -0800 Received: from vie.co.at by Relay1.Austria.EU.net with UUCP id AA13063 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:32:08 +0100 Received: (from hvt@localhost) by oz.vie.co.at (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA06155 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:24:28 +0100 From: anton horvath Message-Id: <199511080824.JAA06155@oz.vie.co.at> Subject: Rfc1597 / Reserved IP space question To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:24:27 +0100 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 869 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi We are eventually planning to use the reserved B-class adresses from rfc-1597, to make Support and live for the MSDOG support people easier. May problem now will be to give some people a connection to the internet. Is there some recommendation how to do that ? or where to find info E.G. to use proxies for ip-adresstranslation ?, and/or which products to use. please answer directly, cause i`m not on the list. thanks for Help, anton -- Office address (Vienna Airport) : Private address : Co. Anton Horvath Anton Horvath Flughafen Wien AG. Hptpl. 31 Postfach 1 A-1300, Vienna A-7100, Neusiedl/See Austria Austria Voice: (++43 - 1) 71110 Ext: 2837 Voice: (++43 - 02167) 8560 Fax: (++43 - 1) 71110 Ext: 5188 EMail: hvt@vie.co.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 01:24:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA28964 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:24:42 -0800 Received: from iis (iis.webnet.com.au [203.8.105.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA28954 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:24:31 -0800 Received: (from maral@localhost) by iis (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA26865; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:28:34 +1100 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:28:33 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Marelas X-Sender: maral@iis To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SMB Filesystem.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone though of implementing an SMB Filesystem, for use with samba? A la Linux.. Peter. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 01:25:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA28980 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:25:01 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA28955 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:24:34 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA06735; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:18:49 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511080918.JAA06735@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Would like cdev major for driver... To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:18:48 +0000 () Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511080904.KAA17095@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 8, 95 10:04:36 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1043 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > I'd suggest you picking the next available cdev # (72 by now), and > submit the driver. The one who's going to commit it will have to > watch for the conflict. That's what I'm using now, but I haven't checked -current to see whether it's used there. (looks... nope. Ok, dibs on 72 8) > I think it's too late to make the reservation in 2.1, you probably > have to stick with the ``generic'' number there. I wasn't worrying about getting the driver 'into' 2.1, I just wanted a number that wouldn't conflict with someone bringing a 2.2 driver back, or with someone else offering an aftermarket 2.1 driver. > cheers, J"org -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 01:30:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA29101 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:30:29 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA29096 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:30:22 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA06752; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:22:40 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511080922.JAA06752@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ioctl() question... To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:22:39 +0000 () Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511080909.KAA17710@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 8, 95 10:09:28 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 796 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > > > > A device-driver level question : > > Yup, but what's the question? Ah, sorry. The question was : is it faster/better/more traditional/sexier to - a) use the two-ioctl sequence _IOW(lots), IOR(int) or b) use a single ioctl _IOWR(lots) where bulk data is passed in, but only an int is coming back. > cheers, J"org I am reminded of the minix ioctl manpage 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 02:16:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA00862 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 02:16:57 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA00844 ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 02:16:39 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA11212 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:15:05 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 8 Nov 95 13:15:04 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00761; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:13:54 +0300 To: "Eric L. Hernes" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org References: <199511071832.MAA00812@jake.lodgenet.com> In-Reply-To: <199511071832.MAA00812@jake.lodgenet.com>; from "Eric L. Hernes" at Tue, 07 Nov 1995 12:32:41 -0600 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:13:54 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/emulators/linux_lib/files md5 Lines: 30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 930 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199511071832.MAA00812@jake.lodgenet.com> Eric L. Hernes writes: >>erich 95/11/07 10:05:53 >> >> Modified: emulators/linux_lib/files md5 >> Log: >> added more libraries to the package >> particularily newer X11 libs. >> >abuse now works, it complains about out of date libc and libm, >but it runs. Thanks, but I notice that lib distribution becomes too large, i.e. no symlinks present now for newly added libs f.e: libX11.so.6 _not_ symlink to libX11.so.6.0 libXt.so.6 _not_ symlink to libXt.so.6.0 etc. also they are the same libs! Please make symlinks to all equal libraries, it saves lot of space. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 02:32:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA01647 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 02:32:46 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA01639 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 02:32:42 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA11206 for hackers@freefall; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 02:32:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 02:32:26 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199511081032.CAA11206@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: How are you guys getting abuse to work?! Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I get: jkh@time-> abuse.x11R6 abuse.x11R6: using incompatible library '/lib/libm.so.4' Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 abuse.x11R6: using incompatible library '/lib/libc.so.4' Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 Abuse (Engine Version 1.10) LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=4, typ=0x450(P), num=0xa not implemented LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=4, typ=0x450(P), num=0x5 not implemented SNDDRV : Sample size 8 failed, sound effects disabled sound effects driver returned failure, sound effects disabled Added himem block (4000000 bytes) undrv: using incompatible library '/lib/libc.so.4' Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 Net driver : unable to make fifo in /tmp: Operation not permitted dieing net driver : cleaning up I've loaded the new linux_lib port and everything. Doing it as root (I'm a brave man) simply changed the last message to: Net driver : unable to make fifo in /tmp: Invalid argument Ideas? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 03:01:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA02429 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 03:01:51 -0800 Received: from vinkku.hut.fi (root@vinkku.hut.fi [130.233.245.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02414 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 03:01:36 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-20.hut.fi (lk-hp-20.hut.fi [130.233.247.33]) by vinkku.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) with ESMTP id NAA17570 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:01:28 +0200 From: Juha Inkari Received: (inkari@localhost) by lk-hp-20.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) id NAA05545 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:01:27 +0200 Message-Id: <199511081101.NAA05545@lk-hp-20.hut.fi> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:01:27 +0200 (EET) In-Reply-To: <199511080735.SAA22790@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Nov 8, 95 06:38:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 696 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk About the NetBSD compatibility issue, well, what is really needed is a common BSD ABI for the userland. Otherwise the BSD's are doomed to run the linux binaries... ;-) Having cross operating system binary compatibility is the first step at evaluating the pros and cons of the different implementations. Agreeing on the details should not hurt anyone. Now that NetBSD has FreeBSD compatibility, anyone tried booting NetBSD kernel on top of FreeBSD userland ? And if that can be made working, wouldn't the opposite situation make porting FreeBSD to platforms, where NetBSD already can be set up, a great deal easier project. Then the first thing would actually be supporting NetBSD binaries (; From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 03:55:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA03568 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 03:55:44 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA03563 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 03:55:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA11228 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 03:55:24 -0800 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: The tree will be tagged for 2.1.0-RELEASE on 9 Nov 1995, 23:00 PST Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 03:55:24 -0800 Message-ID: <11221.815831724@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Barring any last minute delays, the scheduled time for tagging the tree for 2.1.0-RELEASE will be the 9th of November, one hour (give or take a few) before midnight Pacific Standard Time. This means that people supping the CVS tree will get the usual LARGE update and CTM'ers will be similarly affected. If there are any delays in this, I will of course announce it here. I'm actually ready to tag the tree now, but am being conservative about it until I've verified that the CDROM installation really works. Since this requires the burning of an actual CD, I've been holding off on this until all the other reported problems with sysinstall were fixed. I'll also be sending a few CD one-offs to various core team members, but if you feel that you are uniquely suited to testing the CDROM installation (e.g. you have lots of different types of CD drives around or other unique environmental characteristics) then please let me know! Do bear in mind that it takes me a good hour or so to burn a one-off, nor are one-off blanks and priority shipping cheap, so please do only ask for one if you truly think you have something unique to bring to the testing process AND are genuinely willing to invest the time in testing it! I'd love to have BETA testers for the CD so that we don't have any expensive mistakes, but it's nonetheless a lot of extra work for me, hence this disclaimer. If, given all this, you still think you would be a valuable tester for a pre-release CD then please send me your shipping address and a daytime phone number. I will be shipping all such CDs Federal Express due to the compressed time schedules we're under here, so please also don't ask for one if you're not able to test it right away. Ideally, I'd like to give everyone a day or so for testing, then send the final version off for replication. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 04:21:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA04094 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 04:21:30 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA04088 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 04:21:28 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tD9VN-0003viC; Wed, 8 Nov 95 04:21 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA01440; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:21:24 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The tree will be tagged for 2.1.0-RELEASE on 9 Nov 1995, 23:00 PST In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 03:55:24 PST." <11221.815831724@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 13:21:24 +0100 Message-ID: <1438.815833284@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > If, given all this, you still think you would be a valuable tester for > a pre-release CD then please send me your shipping address and a Do I qualify ? :-) New address BTW: Poul-Henning Kamp Valbygaardsvej 8 DK-4200 Slagelse Denmark -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 05:47:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA05754 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 05:47:34 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA05748 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 05:47:25 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA16094 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:45:55 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 8 Nov 95 16:45:53 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA02709; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:42:40 +0300 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD hackers , Joerg Wunsch References: <2079.815799713@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <2079.815799713@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Tue, 07 Nov 1995 19:01:53 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:42:39 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! Lines: 24 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1106 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <2079.815799713@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >> Better solution for it will be passing NULL pointer to dialog functions >> because you not use result[] at all and make them understand NULL >> pointer there. >Well, while we're wishing here.. :-) >A *far far* better solution would be to be able to add callbacks for >each item created, then I'd never even need to parse that &%^%$*!! >result string at all! The original dialog/libdialog was designed for >use from shell scripts, and not from C. The shortcomings of this are >obvious. I can make checklist function understand NULL and do nothing for 'result' arg and pass char array as yet one additional arg, i.e. char hit[nitems]. When function returns, it will have 1 for selected items and 0 for others. Is it what you want here? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 06:08:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA06175 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:08:54 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA06170 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:08:51 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA26376; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:08:26 -0800 To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) cc: FreeBSD hackers , Joerg Wunsch Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 16:42:39 +0300." Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 06:08:26 -0800 Message-ID: <26374.815839706@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I can make checklist function understand NULL and do nothing > for 'result' arg and pass char array as yet one additional arg, i.e. > char hit[nitems]. When function returns, it will have 1 for > selected items and 0 for others. Is it what you want here? I'm not sure I understand this exactly. Could you perhaps clarify it with a little function prototype and a short explanation of the returned values? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 06:35:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA06871 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:35:32 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA06865 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:35:30 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA19998; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:34:07 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511081434.IAA19998@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R WARNING!! To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:34:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Nov 5, 95 12:28:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > Yeah, riiiight. I was delighted to see this when I installed the latest > > SNAP: > > > > Trying 204.95.172.243 ... > > Connected to hummin.sol.net. > > Escape character is '^]'. > > ld.so failed: Undefined symbol "_encrypt_debug_mode" in telnetd:telnetd > > Connection closed by foreign host. > > i get DURING a make world. once the make world has completed > the problem disappears....so verify your shared libraries. hopefully > thats where the problem lies. I'm not building it, I'm simply _installing_ it. Small margin for f***up on my part, alas.... and the source is gone from ftp.cdrom.com, so there's no chance to play with that SNAP any longer. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 07:29:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA08665 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:29:42 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA08658 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:29:28 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA17782 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:28:43 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 8 Nov 95 18:28:40 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA00279; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:26:58 +0300 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD hackers , Joerg Wunsch References: <26374.815839706@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <26374.815839706@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Wed, 08 Nov 1995 06:08:26 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:26:57 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! Lines: 30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 984 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <26374.815839706@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >> I can make checklist function understand NULL and do nothing >> for 'result' arg and pass char array as yet one additional arg, i.e. >> char hit[nitems]. When function returns, it will have 1 for >> selected items and 0 for others. Is it what you want here? >I'm not sure I understand this exactly. Could you perhaps clarify it >with a little function prototype and a short explanation of the >returned values? I mean: char *it = malloc(nitems); ... dialog_checklist(..., NULL, it); \ \ result new argument for (i = 0; i < nitems; i++) if (it[i]) printf ("Item #%d choosed\n", i); free(it); -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 07:33:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA08829 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:33:19 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA08769 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:31:18 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA12248 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:29:38 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA25281 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:42:01 -0600 Message-Id: <199511081542.JAA25281@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: compaq's builtin pci bus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 09:42:00 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone using one of these compaqs with builtin pci ether. If yes, what's the trick to get the bus probed? The ether chip is an AMD PCNet, which may be handled by the lnc driver, but it doesn't look like the bus is even recognized. TIA, eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 07:48:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA09368 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:48:28 -0800 Received: from eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09229 ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:45:54 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA29159; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:43:38 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01191; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:07:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199511081007.LAA01191@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: aledm@pavilion.co.uk (Aled Morris) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mac-FreeBSD (do they mean us?) Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Organisation: Vector Systems Ltd, Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Occupation: Internet Unix C & Systems Engineering Consultant X-Phone: +49 89 268616 Fax: +49 89 2608126 Timezone: GMT+1 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 16:14:39 GMT." <199511071614.QAA19187@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 11:07:04 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone want to write a followup? The magazine can be contacted at: Done (& cc'd FYI to aledm@pavilion.co.uk & core@freebsd.org) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 07:49:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA09440 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:49:49 -0800 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09433 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:49:45 -0800 Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA29075 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:49:42 -0600 Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Wed, 8 Nov 95 09:49 CST Message-Id: Subject: Impact of upcoming 2.1 release on the STABLE branch? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:49:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 455 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone know what it is? What will STABLE be after this release goes? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 07:50:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA09526 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:50:27 -0800 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA09517 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:50:25 -0800 Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15820(5)>; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:48:12 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07113; Wed, 8 Nov 95 10:47:39 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06059; Wed, 8 Nov 95 10:47:38 EST Message-Id: <9511081547.AA06059@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Peter Marelas Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMB Filesystem.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 01:28:33 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:47:36 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone though of implementing an SMB Filesystem, for use with samba? > A la Linux.. > > Peter. > Yes... I'm more interested in getting it to run on sunos (would it be easy to run on both sunos and freebsd?) I'm not concerned about the security aspects...(locks only keep honest people out...) -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 08:00:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA09886 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:00:15 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09815 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:58:13 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA12427; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:57:04 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA26467; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:09:38 -0600 Message-Id: <199511081609.KAA26467@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: anton horvath cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rfc1597 / Reserved IP space question In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 09:24:27 +0100." <199511080824.JAA06155@oz.vie.co.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 10:09:38 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi > > We are eventually planning to use the reserved B-class adresses from > rfc-1597, to make Support and live for the MSDOG support people easier. > > May problem now will be to give some people a connection to the internet. > Is there some recommendation how to do that ? or where to find info > E.G. to use proxies for ip-adresstranslation ?, and/or which products to use. I use socks. It allows me to have a subnet in the 172.16.*.* test address space and point to my socks server which is really on the internet. I've heard that there are several apps available for dos/windows which can used it. I've got several BSD apps recompiled for socks. Netscape works with socks. I've got a port of the (older) 4.2.2 distribution, someone was working on a port of 5.something. Neither has been committed to the ports collection because of the upcoming 2.1 release. I can send you a copy if you'd like. > > please answer directly, cause i`m not on the list. > > thanks for Help, anton > > -- > Office address (Vienna Airport) : Private address : > Co. Anton Horvath Anton Horvath > Flughafen Wien AG. Hptpl. 31 > Postfach 1 > A-1300, Vienna A-7100, Neusiedl/See > Austria Austria > Voice: (++43 - 1) 71110 Ext: 2837 Voice: (++43 - 02167) 8560 > Fax: (++43 - 1) 71110 Ext: 5188 > EMail: hvt@vie.co.at > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 08:58:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA11299 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:58:13 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA11290 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:58:08 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA00240; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:56:34 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA00153; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:56:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199511081656.IAA00153@corbin.Root.COM> To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Impact of upcoming 2.1 release on the STABLE branch? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 95 09:49:41 CST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 08:55:09 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Anyone know what it is? What will STABLE be after this release goes? For awhile (months), it will continue to be the 2.1 sources. We are planning a 2.1.5 (perhaps 2.1.1 - we haven't decided yet what to call it) release sometime during the first quarter of '96. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 09:11:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA11823 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:11:47 -0800 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA11816 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:11:42 -0800 Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04096; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:09:57 -0600 Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Wed, 8 Nov 95 11:09 CST Message-Id: Subject: Re: Impact of upcoming 2.1 release on the STABLE branch? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:09:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511081656.IAA00153@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Nov 8, 95 08:55:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1062 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Anyone know what it is? What will STABLE be after this release goes? > > For awhile (months), it will continue to be the 2.1 sources. We are > planning a 2.1.5 (perhaps 2.1.1 - we haven't decided yet what to call it) > release sometime during the first quarter of '96. > > -DG Wait a second... I thought that STABLE was something *less than* 2.1? So once 2.1 "ships", then STABLE will be 2.1 as-is, plus perhaps patches? I'm trying to figure out which copy to SUP here and maintain locally. I haven't used CURRENT, as that is by definition at times not even compilable. For a production system, STABLE has been ok for us -- is this the continuing recommendation? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 09:38:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA12381 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:38:04 -0800 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA12375 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:38:00 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA09833 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:35:32 +0100 Message-Id: <199511081735.AA09833@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:35:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Eric L. Hernes" "compaq's builtin pci bus" (Nov 8, 9:42) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Eric L. Hernes" Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 8, 9:42, "Eric L. Hernes" wrote: } Subject: compaq's builtin pci bus } } Is anyone using one of these compaqs with builtin pci ether. } If yes, what's the trick to get the bus probed? Which version of FreeBSD is that ??? Please try the boot floppy from the latest SNAP, and if it doesn't work, send verbose boot messages (output with "-v" entered at the "Boot: " prompt). } The ether chip is an AMD PCNet, which may be handled by } the lnc driver, but it doesn't look like the bus is } even recognized. Try setting the port address to 0x7000, since this has been reported to be the value choosen by Compaq's PCI BIOS. Don't know the IRQ offhand, though. But you first have to get FreeBSD to probe the PCI bus. And FreeBSD-current and the latest SNAPs ought to get it right ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 09:47:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA12593 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:47:05 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12587 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:47:03 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA02906 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:47:02 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA00297; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:45:44 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA00212; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:45:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199511081745.JAA00212@corbin.Root.COM> To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Impact of upcoming 2.1 release on the STABLE branch? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 95 11:09:56 CST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 09:44:47 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >Anyone know what it is? What will STABLE be after this release goes? >> >> For awhile (months), it will continue to be the 2.1 sources. We are >> planning a 2.1.5 (perhaps 2.1.1 - we haven't decided yet what to call it) >> release sometime during the first quarter of '96. >> >> -DG > >Wait a second... > >I thought that STABLE was something *less than* 2.1? So once 2.1 "ships", >then STABLE will be 2.1 as-is, plus perhaps patches? That's correct. We're just planning to release this next year as a stop-gap for the long delays we're expecting in the 2.2 release cycle. It should be almost entirely a bugfix release. >I'm trying to figure out which copy to SUP here and maintain locally. I >haven't used CURRENT, as that is by definition at times not even compilable. > >For a production system, STABLE has been ok for us -- is this the continuing >recommendation? Yes. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 09:51:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA12703 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:51:02 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12697 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:51:00 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA20352; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:46:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511081746.KAA20352@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:46:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511080608.XAA28061@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 7, 95 11:08:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 636 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > That's all. VM86() code is your holy grail, and you are using it to > make points that aren't relevant to it. I'm trying to inject a little > bit of factual information into the discussion to bring out the fact > that VM86() is *still* non-trivial to do, even given the NetBSD code. > {Especially for a non-kernel weenie like myself} The point I'm making is that NetBSD should be leveraged where possible to make support less non-trivial. If this means a COMPAT_NETBSD, then all the better. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 09:53:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA12760 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:53:28 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12755 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:53:27 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA20366; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:49:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511081749.KAA20366@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au (John Birrell) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:49:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199511080735.SAA22789@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Nov 8, 95 06:38:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 394 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > So, having said all that, and having listened to argument for the sake of > argument, I can't see that FreeBSD has anything to gain by adding some sort of > NetBSD compatibility. But what it has to "gain" by not doing it is gratuitous incompatability. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 10:22:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA13133 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:22:43 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13128 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:22:39 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA20449; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:17:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511081817.LAA20449@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:17:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jehamby@lightside.com, x_cbug@netscape.com In-Reply-To: <3348.815811591@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 7, 95 10:19:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3298 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Look at the state of system call restart after SIGALRM on setitimer() > > for BSDI vs. FreeBSD in BSDI compatability mode. > > If they're using setitimer() instead of a timeout to select(), that'd > be unbelievably mutant. What makes you think they're doing it that > way? strace > Signal handling in X applications is something to be avoided, > not embraced. I've done "blinking" just fine with the supplied > (non-signal using) timers in other applications. "Blinking" is done with the select() timer. Other crap is done with the itimer. The itimer fires of at a high multiple of the select timer timeout duration. I imagine the reason the do this is because they want a standard timing invariant under large amounts of X events for animation. Like the little Meteor'ed 'N' that is updated at a high multiple of the Motif XmText fields InsertionPoint blink rate. I've used a similar technique for animation in X games, though I went through the code carefully and gauged the loop timer in the animation path and outside the animation path and unrolled XtMainAppLoop() myself, wirining my select() timeout that way. Since they use the standard Motif library, I'd say that the reason they do it is because they have very little leeway in implementing what they want to implement otherwise. If you don't unroll the whole code path or use a path shortened or preemptible Motif implementation, you're pretty much guaranteed that the Motif event processing will take longer than your timer period in some cases and make your animation jumpy. You could reduce this (but not eliminate it) by internally queueing callback actions to occur later, and then handling callbacks like X events and timeouts: from inside the main app loop. Depending on the speed of the machine you are on, this can result in a "jumpy" or "unresponsive" aplication, depending on how low level you code your callback intercept-and-queue. So really, they have little choice. Actually, FreeBSD's select() is broken: /* select is not restarted after signals... */ if (error == ERESTART) error = EINTR; (sys_generic.c) at least as far as BSDI compatability is concerned. As far as SunOS compatability is concerned, only the read/write/wait calls are not restarted unilaterrally, so the extended list in FreeBSD is broken as well (in SunOS, the default is restart). I think the SunOS sigaction(3 is improperly documented; I think any tsleep'er in fact gets restarted. The siginterrupt(3V) man page on SunOs makes this more apparent, implying it affects *all* system calls which may be alarmed out of. SVR4 actually has an "interruptable" flags bit in the sysent[] table that tags the affected function. > [Note: We should probably take x_cbug out of the Cc line if this is > going to turn into a debate! :)] Actually, NetScape should be made aware of the issues with regard to *at least* setting the signals away from the system defaults to known defaults, and should be aware that FreeBSD incorrectly handles select(2) restart (so their timer fails). The question is whether you can claim binary compatability with BSDI without fixing select(2), etc. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 10:37:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA13511 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:37:07 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13505 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:37:04 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA05048; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 05:36:49 +1100 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 05:36:49 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511081836.FAA05048@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: ioctl() question... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >struct buf >{ > u_short count, timeout, status; > u_short data[256]; >} >#define GETSTUFF _IOR('p', 15, struct buf) >#define PUTSTUFF _IOW('p', 16, struct buf) >#define PUTSTATUS _IOR('p', 17, int) >Where PUTSTATUS gets the status of the last put operation. This is >yucko and non-orthagonal, and I'd prefer to do >#define PUTSTUFF _IOWR('p', 16, struct buf) >but I'm ignorant of the relative merits wrt copyin/copyout time vs. >syscall time. _IOWR() copies the data both ways whether it is used or not, so it is not good to use it if the data is large and mostly not used in one direction. >It's also possible that the data[] array may grow, although I'm trading >off against read/write with that 8( ioctls aren't well suited to copying variable amounts of data. It's simplest to put the data in the ioctl buffer so that it is copied automatically, but then the ioctl buffer has to be large enough to handle the largest desired amount of data. A few drivers (surprisingly few) pass pointers to data and call copyin/copyout directly. In some cases this is obviously because they were NIH. E.g., the speaker driver copyin's a tiny amount of data that could easily be passed directly. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 10:50:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA14155 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:50:18 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14150 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:50:16 -0800 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00553; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:50:15 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:50:15 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199511081850.NAA00553@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <47p9dq$11qf@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >I don't visit any pages with blinking text in them, so I can't >verify it.. :-) >Send me a URL where this happens and I'll give it a look. I certainly >haven't noticed anything like this myself. >BTW, has anyone looked at some of the new features in 2.0b2? The >scripting features and the "frames" look *really* promising. I went >through their little "recruitment service" demo and was pretty >impressed. All of that was in 2.0b1 Jordan :) I gave up on b2 and went back to b1, b2 locks up on me about every 4 pages, process running, but taking no input, an X kill destroy's the window, not the process. b1 Works flawlessly for me.. Go figure. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 11:04:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA14724 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:04:18 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14696 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:02:54 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA13898; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:01:53 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA02009; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:14:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199511081914.NAA02009@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 18:35:31 +0100." <199511081735.AA09833@Sysiphos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 13:14:51 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser writes: >On Nov 8, 9:42, "Eric L. Hernes" wrote: >} Subject: compaq's builtin pci bus >} >} Is anyone using one of these compaqs with builtin pci ether. >} If yes, what's the trick to get the bus probed? > >Which version of FreeBSD is that ??? >Please try the boot floppy from the latest SNAP, >and if it doesn't work, send verbose boot messages >(output with "-v" entered at the "Boot: " prompt). I originally tried with the 10/05 snap, that's where it failed. I just tried again with -current. The probes are working, and the device is recognized but it gets `no driver assigned'. Now the kernel panics somewhere in the mount code after it's up and running. I'll probably upgrade the machine to -current and see if the panic goes away. I suspect that it's -snap binaries with a -current kernel. > >Try setting the port address to 0x7000, since this >has been reported to be the value choosen by Compaq's >PCI BIOS. Don't know the IRQ offhand, though. you mean: device lnc0 at isa? port 0x7000 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr instead of device lnc0 > >Regards, STefan > >-- > Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 > Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 > ============================================================================= >= > http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se thanks, eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 11:18:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA15188 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:18:00 -0800 Received: from sunny.bog.msu.su (dima@sunny.bog.msu.su [158.250.20.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15155 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:16:25 -0800 Received: (from dima@localhost) by sunny.bog.msu.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA07790; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:15:25 +0300 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:15:14 +0300 (????) From: Dmitry Khrustalev To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org cc: terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-Reply-To: <199511080530.VAA23023@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > 2. We need to integrate our own pthreads support badly enough that JAVA > > would better serve as incentive for a native port. I don't think that > > pursuing NetBSD ABI emulation to that end is the best use of resources. > > This is a misunderstanding. > > JAVA will *not* work, as shipped by Sun, with pthreads or other user space > threading system. Java, as shipped by Sun, uses simple user space thread library, green threads. It does not depend on solaris threads at all. However, it needs thread-safe libc. -Dima From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 11:20:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA15319 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:20:40 -0800 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA15310 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:20:34 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA10669 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:18:25 +0100 Message-Id: <199511081918.AA10669@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:18:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Eric L. Hernes" "Re: compaq's builtin pci bus" (Nov 8, 13:14) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Eric L. Hernes" Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 8, 13:14, "Eric L. Hernes" wrote: } Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus } Stefan Esser writes: } I originally tried with the 10/05 snap, that's where } it failed. I just tried again with -current. The probes } are working, and the device is recognized but it } gets `no driver assigned'. Now the kernel panics somewhere } in the mount code after it's up and running. I'll probably } upgrade the machine to -current and see if the panic goes } away. I suspect that it's -snap binaries with a -current kernel. Well, I tried to get the -current PCI probe code into 2.1R many weeks ago, but it was decided, it was to dangerous with the release expected a few days later ... :) I really would like to know, whether it works with the most recent SNAP, or only with -current ... } >Try setting the port address to 0x7000, since this } >has been reported to be the value choosen by Compaq's } >PCI BIOS. Don't know the IRQ offhand, though. } } you mean: } device lnc0 at isa? port 0x7000 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr Guess it is IRQ 5, not 10. You will know when the probe succeeds, I guess. Instead of rebuilding the kernel, you may want to try booting with the "-c" option entered at the "Boot: " prompt. This will let you specify the port and irq values when the kernel has been loaded and before the device probe starts. If you got the values right, you can of course use them to build a customized kernel. Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 11:44:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA16299 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:44:44 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16290 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:44:42 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA00405; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:44:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA00263; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:44:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199511081944.LAA00263@corbin.Root.COM> To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Impact of upcoming 2.1 release on the STABLE branch? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 95 13:38:12 CST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 11:44:07 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Next question -- is the TELNETD security problem recently reported to us via >CERT fixed in the current STABLE tree, and if not, when will it be? Yes, it's fixed in both -current and -stable and the fix will be in the 2.1 release. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 12:03:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA17088 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:03:47 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17082 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:03:46 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA05008; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:03:36 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511082003.MAA05008@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au (John Birrell) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:03:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: lambert.org!terry@werple.net.au, hackers@freebsd.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199511080735.SAA22790@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Nov 8, 95 06:38:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1042 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Hardly! Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library gives you a > > > thread-safe library and JAVA. Implementing NetBSD support to give you > > > JAVA gives you only JAVA. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist > > > to figure out that "1 + 1 = 2" and "1 + 0 = 1" > > > > Building a FreeBSD thread-safe library gives you a thread-safe library. > > Sigh.... Yes! So? > > > > > Taking NetBSD's work after it's done gives you a thread-safe library. > > Where is the thread-safe NetBSD library? It's not _in_ NetBSD at the moment > is it? Has there been an announcement that it will be in 1.2? > > In private mail the other day, CAP said he's talking to NetBSD about making > their libc thread safe (like we're doing to FreeBSD's libc). Terry, We're also working with him.. It'll probably be much the same stuff! ok? enough on this topic.. > > > Now, if it were possible to build the FreeBSD libc for NetBSD, that'd save > us a lot of grief. > > And then we'd probably find that 2 + 2 = 4, 2 * 2 = 4 _AND_ 2 ^ 2 = 4. 8-)>. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 12:08:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA17293 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:08:51 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17286 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:08:49 -0800 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA00361 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:08:48 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199511082008.PAA00361@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: SMC Card problems and 2.1R To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:08:48 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 403 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Might I suggest either adding the patch for the SMC Ultra cards (incorrect memory size detection), or at least adding a small paragraph to the install guide/hardware guide that if you own a 8216[CT] that you should reconfigure the memory size of the card to 16384.. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 12:14:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA17578 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:14:02 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17568 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:13:58 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA05030; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:13:33 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511082013.MAA05030@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:13:32 -0800 (PST) Cc: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au, terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199511080544.WAA19303@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 7, 95 10:44:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1680 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm reading this thread backwards (how I've got elm set up :) so I've already answered from 'later' in the thread, but I'll try make it clear.. CAP is the person that will (note 'will', not 'did') feed thread changes into NetBSD libc. we are actively working with him on this and it may be that FreeBSD get's them first.. either way you look at it, FreeBSD is not 'duplicating NetBSD's work' we are using the same source.. > > > >> My understanding of the way things are: > > >> > > >> NetBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's > > >> thread safe libc. > > >> > > >> FreeBSD "thread environment" = CAP's pthreads code including CAP's > > >> thread safe libc. > > > > > > Your understanding is incorrect according to Julian's post under this > > > same subject. > > > > Not it's not! What Julian mentioned is what _we_ are currently doing. > > As far as 2.0 and 2.1 are concerned, pthreads is a port. yes, pthreads is not included in either except as an external module. > > > > For 2.2 I'm building a threaded libc here and feeding diffs to Julian for > > inclusion in the main tree when appropriate. > > I'm still talking with CAP about > > the integration of thread support > > in libc. This discussion includes Julian. Threads support in 2.2 will start out as Integral but optional.... at some stage the 'optional' will go away it's a race to see whether this happens before or after 2.2 is 'RELEASE'd but at the RELEASE of 2.2 it will definitly be Integrated.. > > I meant with regard to the NetBSD and FreeBSD sources both being based > on CAP's libc code. As CAP is doing both, I guess we;ll get the same patches.. :) > > julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 13:01:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19177 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:01:22 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19169 ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:01:07 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA05174; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:00:55 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511082100.NAA05174@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Arrrgh (Was Re: ideas from netbsd) To: terry@freebsd.org, proven@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:00:55 -0800 (PST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511082036.HAA23957@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Nov 9, 95 07:30:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2333 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok, There seems to be some misunderstandings about what is going on with pthreads.. CAP (Chris Provenzo (sp?)) has a pthreads library that is proving to be well thought out and liked. this will be ported to freeBSD. It will initially be a standard-though-optional library. Along with this are a number of important changes that are needed in the libraries (notibly errno and similar things). These changes are being worked on and will be made as changes to our sources of libc (and any other libs that need it) Initially they will be available through separate library compiled from the same sources. This is simply to make sure that the rest of the world doesn't get hosed when we make these changes.. changes to include files will be guarded with _THREAD_SAFE_ and this define will be defined when creating the threaded library. John Birrel (sp?) is doing the technical middle-man work and working with CAP to get all the changes and porting done. I will commit them when they are happy with the results. An explicit goal of the porting effort is to initially have NO functional changes unless linking with the threaded library and defining _THREAD_SAFE_ At some point in the future, when and if there is a general rosy pink fuzzy feeling about how the threads are working, and if it can be shown that backwards compatibility won't be broken, we hope to make the thread-safe changes standard and NON optional.. in other words.. thread-safe operation will be the norm. This work is, as specified above, being done with CAP, and as he is the person working with NetBSD and others on this, we will not be 'inventing the world from scratch' but participating in a multi-OS project. I believe that when NetBSD get their Thread-safe changes done, they will be (probably) coming from the same source, and they will benefit from what we do ahead of them in this area, as we will benefit by what they do ahead of us.. John and CAP already have working versions of this stuff so it's not 'pipe dreams'. More on a 'pipe dream' scale, is the eventual support for independently schedulable threads. I see the first version of this being built ON TOP of pthreads (which has support for kernel threads already I believe) utilising the 'rfork' changes posted here recently.. but this is the 'project after next' :) Any questions? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 13:06:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19397 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:06:11 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19389 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:06:03 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA05186; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:05:25 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511082105.NAA05186@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SMC Card problems and 2.1R To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:05:25 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511082008.PAA00361@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Nov 8, 95 03:08:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 557 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk you mean that patch wasn't added? david, I assumed you'd do this as you are Mr if_ed.c have you acopy of that last patch ? > > Might I suggest either adding the patch for the SMC Ultra cards (incorrect > memory size detection), or at least adding a small paragraph to the install > guide/hardware guide that if you own a 8216[CT] that you should reconfigure the > memory size of the card to 16384.. > > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu > > http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 13:09:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19513 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:09:53 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19503 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:09:48 -0800 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00681 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:09:48 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199511082109.QAA00681@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Hmmm ranlib prob in 1104-SNAP To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:09:47 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 722 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any clues as to what might make this happen? This works just peachy on a 2.0.5 system, and only fails with a few sets of files. dev1# make cc -Wall -O -I../scnc -c scnc_group_add_del.c cc -Wall -O -I../scnc -c scnc_group_add_del_user.c cc -Wall -O -I../scnc -c scnc_list_group.c cc -Wall -O -I../scnc -c scnc_get_next_gid.c rm -f libscnc_group.a ar vr libscnc_group.a scnc_group_add_del.o scnc_group_add_del_user.o scnc_list_group.o scnc_get_next_gid.o ar: creating archive libscnc_group.a a - scnc_group_add_del.o a - scnc_group_add_del_user.o a - scnc_list_group.o a - scnc_get_next_gid.o ranlib libscnc_group.a ranlib: libscnc_group.a: Inappropriate file type or format *** Error code 1 -Crh From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 13:11:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19619 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:11:30 -0800 Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19605 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:11:09 -0800 Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id XAA02438 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:11:15 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id XAA15712 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:08:01 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id XAA03812 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:08:00 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199511082108.XAA03812@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: (fwd) JFYI: Linux-FT joins X/Open To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:08:00 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2760 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just wonder -- what the consequences of this may look like? Forwarded message: # # Linux-FT joins X/Open # # This is a *MAJOR* and long overdue step forward for Linux. # # The group developing Linux-FT have joined X/Open, the international open # systems standards organization wich manages the Single UNIX Specification # and licenses the UNIX trademark. # # "Independant Software Vendors are often nervous about porting their # products to Linux due to the perceived lack of standardisation and # concerns about support and stability. X/Open membership demonstrates a # commitment to Conformance, Standards and Stability which has been # unachievable in the past and is a significant step towards proving # that Linux is a viable and stable platform. # # With Linux-FT's proven commitment to Commercial Quality, Standards # and Conformance, X/Open membership is a logical step forward in # this definitive products growth and provides the Commercial # and Free communities with a solid platform on which to base their # products." # # says Lynda Nurden of Lasermoon Ltd. # # # "Having a part of the Free Software community as an X/Open ISV # Council member is an important step towards the worldwide acceptance # of UNIX systems standards. # # We welcome this development and wish this new Member every sucess." # # says Graham Bird of X/Open. # # # If you want further information about these developments and the Linux # products involved, please check the WWW pages or send us an email. # # Contacts : # # X/Open; # # WWW http://www.xopen.org # # Graham Bird, Director of Branding # Email : g.bird@xopen.org Tel : +44 (0)1734 508311 Xt 2251 # # Jeff Hansen, VP Marketing # j.hansen@xopen.org USA (415) 323-7992 # # # Linux-FT ; # # Europe # ------ # Lasermoon Ltd, # The Forge, Fareham Road, # Wickham, Hants, # England. PO17 5DE # # Voice +44 (0) 1329 834944 # Fax: +44 (0) 1329 834955 # # info@lasermoon.co.uk # http://www.lasermoon.co.uk # ftp.lasermoon.co.uk # # # USA # --- # Just Computers! # P.O. Box 751414 # Petaluma, CA 94975-1414 # # Voice: 707-586-5600 # FAX: 707-586-5606 # # Email: rjust@justcomp.com # http://www.justcomp.com # MServer: info@justcomp.com # # - -- # Info Desk - info@lasermoon.co.uk WWW and FTP : ftp.lasermoon.co.uk # Lasermoon Ltd, The Forge, Fareham Road, Wickham, Hants, England. PO17 5DE # Voice +44 (0) 1329 834944 Fax: +44 (0) 1329 834955 # +++ The UNIX & Linux Freeware Specialists! +++ # -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 An undocumented feature is a coding error. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 13:32:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20382 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:32:58 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20347 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:32:51 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA21494; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:30:23 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511082130.PAA21494@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: SMC Card problems and 2.1R To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:30:23 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511082105.NAA05186@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 8, 95 01:05:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > you mean that patch wasn't added? > > david, I assumed you'd do this as you are Mr if_ed.c > > have you acopy of that last patch ? As of SNAP-1104, my 8216 is still detected as an 8416. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 14:29:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA24107 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:29:38 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23950 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:27:53 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA14754; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:26:45 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA01253; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:36:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199511082236.QAA01253@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 20:18:24 +0100." <199511081918.AA10669@Sysiphos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 16:36:53 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser writes: >On Nov 8, 13:14, "Eric L. Hernes" wrote: > >Well, I tried to get the -current PCI probe code into 2.1R >many weeks ago, but it was decided, it was to dangerous with >the release expected a few days later ... :) > >I really would like to know, whether it works with the most >recent SNAP, or only with -current ... > The most recent snap will find the ether device, through userconfig. I couldn't tell if the pci bus was getting probed or not. I'll play with it as I have time. >} >Try setting the port address to 0x7000, since this >} >has been reported to be the value choosen by Compaq's >} >PCI BIOS. Don't know the IRQ offhand, though. >} >} you mean: >} device lnc0 at isa? port 0x7000 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr > >Guess it is IRQ 5, not 10. >You will know when the probe succeeds, I guess. It was set to irq 10 with compaq's setup. (I've got my fallback ed0 on irq 5). > >If you got the values right, you can of course use them >to build a customized kernel. > >Regards, STefan > > >-- > Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 > Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 > ============================================================================= >= > http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 15:07:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA26073 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:07:10 -0800 Received: from sol.we.lc.ehu.es (sol.we.lc.ehu.es [158.227.6.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA26068 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:06:59 -0800 Received: from sirius.we.lc.ehu.es by sol.we.lc.ehu.es (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA16768; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:06:26 +0100 From: borjam@we.lc.ehu.es (Borja Marcos) Message-Id: <9511082306.AA16768@sol.we.lc.ehu.es> Subject: Fixing LFS To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:08:25 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm thinking about making LFS work, and I'm wondering if someone else is working on that so that we can collaborate. regards, Borja. -- ******************************************************************* Borja Marcos | Preferred: borjam@we.lc.ehu.es Alangoeta, 11, 1. izq. | Others: borjamar@mx.sarenet.es 48990 - Algorta (Vizcaya) | 100015.3502@compuserve.com SPAIN | CIS: 100015,3502 ****************************************************************** (c)1995 by the author. This message cannot be transferred to the Microsoft(tm) Network. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 15:23:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA27144 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:23:57 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27135 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:23:48 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29368; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:21:16 -0800 To: Joe Greco cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R WARNING!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 08:39:50 CST." <199511081439.IAA20016@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 15:21:16 -0800 Message-ID: <29365.815872876@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Bzzt! But thank you for playing. As a consolation prize, if YOU can get a > telnet prompt out of anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116, DNS changes are still > propagating], which is running 1104-SNAP installed last nite off of > ftp.cdrom.com, you will win a round of incredulous applause :-) > > Siiiigh. Oh well. If I get some time, I will go and Kerberize these > machines my way, and see where the differences lie. I'm afraid this is too cryptic for me. What exactly are you saying? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 15:26:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA27447 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:26:43 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27433 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:26:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29385; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:23:48 -0800 To: Joe Greco cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler), gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R WARNING!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 08:34:06 CST." <199511081434.IAA19998@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 15:23:47 -0800 Message-ID: <29383.815873027@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not building it, I'm simply _installing_ it. Small margin for f***up on > my part, alas.... and the source is gone from ftp.cdrom.com, so there's no > chance to play with that SNAP any longer. What source is? 951104-SNAP is still there, where it always was! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 15:42:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA28368 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:42:00 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA28361 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:41:51 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA24738; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:41:40 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA26635; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:41:39 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA10849; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:21:01 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511082221.XAA10849@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: ioctl() question... To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:21:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511080922.JAA06752@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 8, 95 09:22:39 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 651 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > > > Yup, but what's the question? > > Ah, sorry. The question was : > > is it faster/better/more traditional/sexier to - > > a) use the two-ioctl sequence _IOW(lots), IOR(int) > > or > > b) use a single ioctl _IOWR(lots) > > where bulk data is passed in, but only an int is coming back. You might find examples for both. The split version might be slightly faster, but unless you're going to call it 10000 times a second, i doubt one would notice it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 15:43:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA28461 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:43:10 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA28455 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:43:07 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29560; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:42:41 -0800 To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) cc: FreeBSD hackers , Joerg Wunsch Subject: Re: Ack! Help, Andrey! I'm having troubles in libdialog! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 18:26:57 +0300." Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 15:42:41 -0800 Message-ID: <29558.815874161@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > char *it = malloc(nitems); > > ... dialog_checklist(..., NULL, it); > \ \ > result new argument > > for (i = 0; i < nitems; i++) > if (it[i]) > printf ("Item #%d choosed\n", i); Hmmm. Since we're making such changes, why not just replace the result string with an array for checklist items? You'll need to go whack on the dialog(1) stuff anyway or get warnings about the missing parameter. The way it currently returns one string with newlines, all concatenated together, is pretty bogus anyway and I can't see any reason to preserve that behavior. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 15:45:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA28616 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:45:40 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA28598 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:45:35 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29590; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:45:09 -0800 To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Impact of upcoming 2.1 release on the STABLE branch? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 09:49:41 CST." Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 15:45:09 -0800 Message-ID: <29588.815874309@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone know what it is? What will STABLE be after this release goes? It will continue to be -stable, leading up to 2.1.1 and possibly beyond. The release of 2.1 itself won't impact the -stable branch, though it will impact those supping CVS since the tag operation will result in lots of files being sent. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 15:55:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA29308 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:55:14 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA29292 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:55:05 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id SAA23408; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:47:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:47:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: SMC Card problems and 2.1R To: Julian Elischer cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511082105.NAA05186@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I would like a copy of that patch. I have a client's box with my 3c509 in it now. I want ot replace it with his smc card. ;) jmb On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Julian Elischer wrote: > you mean that patch wasn't added? > > david, I assumed you'd do this as you are Mr if_ed.c > > have you acopy of that last patch ? > > > > > > Might I suggest either adding the patch for the SMC Ultra cards (incorrect > > memory size detection), or at least adding a small paragraph to the install > > guide/hardware guide that if you own a 8216[CT] that you should reconfigure the > > memory size of the card to 16384.. > > > > -Crh > > > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu > > > > http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ > > > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 15:59:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA29722 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:59:31 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA29712 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:59:24 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29763; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:58:55 -0800 To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Impact of upcoming 2.1 release on the STABLE branch? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 11:09:56 CST." Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 15:58:55 -0800 Message-ID: <29760.815875135@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I thought that STABLE was something *less than* 2.1? So once 2.1 "ships", > then STABLE will be 2.1 as-is, plus perhaps patches? No, -stable was always "2.1 in production and beyond." While we haven't reached 2.1 I suppose it's accurate to say that it's "less than 2.1", but that won't hold true much longer (I hope! :-). > For a production system, STABLE has been ok for us -- is this the continuing > recommendation? Definitely. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 16:15:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA00920 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:15:35 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA00912 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:15:31 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA05559; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:14:02 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511090014.QAA05559@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R WARNING!! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:14:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <29365.815872876@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 8, 95 03:21:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 786 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I think he's saying: julian@erf.tfs.com: telnet 206.55.64.116 Trying 206.55.64.116... Connected to 206.55.64.116. Escape character is '^]'. ld.so failed: Undefined symbol "_encrypt_debug_mode" in telnetd:telnetd Connection closed by foreign host. > > > Bzzt! But thank you for playing. As a consolation prize, if YOU can get a > > telnet prompt out of anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116, DNS changes are still > > propagating], which is running 1104-SNAP installed last nite off of > > ftp.cdrom.com, you will win a round of incredulous applause :-) > > > > Siiiigh. Oh well. If I get some time, I will go and Kerberize these > > machines my way, and see where the differences lie. > > I'm afraid this is too cryptic for me. What exactly are you saying? > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 16:22:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA01179 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:22:01 -0800 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA01160 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:21:50 -0800 Received: from server.cs.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa27184; 8 Nov 95 19:21 EST Received: from viper.cs.Virginia.EDU (viper-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU) by uvacs.cs.virginia.edu (4.1/5.1.UVA) id AA28057; Wed, 8 Nov 95 19:21:44 EST Posted-Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:21:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by viper.cs.Virginia.EDU (5.x/SMI-2.0) id AA09546; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:21:44 -0500 From: bah6f@server.cs.virginia.edu Message-Id: <9511090021.AA09546@viper.cs.Virginia.EDU> Subject: Patch to matrox driver To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:21:43 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I seem to have purchased a Matrox Meteor frame grabber card that reports a different vendor number than the one for which the drivers were written. It doesn't appear to be a problem, though. I added a case to the meteor probe, and (now that a driver is assigned to the card) all appears to work well. Here's the diff -c to show what my changes were: *** /sys/pci/meteor.c Wed Nov 8 19:15:43 1995 --- /sys/pci/meteor.c.new Wed Nov 8 14:33:05 1995 *************** *** 445,450 **** --- 445,451 ---- switch (type) { case 0x12238086ul: /* meteor */ + case 0x12230086ul: /* new meteor ? */ /*Paco*/ return ("Matrox Meteor"); }; Perhaps someone would like to add those eventually. I don't think there are any significant differences between my card and the one used by previous developers. If I find any, you'll be the first to know. Thanks, Paco -- Brian "Paco" Hope Research Assistant, Technical Support Staff email: paco@virginia.edu Department of Computer Science WWW: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~bah6f/ University of Virginia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 17:03:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA03282 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:03:06 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03270 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:03:02 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA18374; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:45:00 +1100 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:45:00 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511090045.LAA18374@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu Subject: Re: Hmmm ranlib prob in 1104-SNAP Cc: davidg@root.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Does anyone have any clues as to what might make this happen? This works just >peachy on a 2.0.5 system, and only fails with a few sets of files. >dev1# make >cc -Wall -O -I../scnc -c scnc_group_add_del.c >cc -Wall -O -I../scnc -c scnc_group_add_del_user.c >cc -Wall -O -I../scnc -c scnc_list_group.c >cc -Wall -O -I../scnc -c scnc_get_next_gid.c >rm -f libscnc_group.a >ar vr libscnc_group.a scnc_group_add_del.o scnc_group_add_del_user.o >scnc_list_group.o scnc_get_next_gid.o >ar: creating archive libscnc_group.a >a - scnc_group_add_del.o >a - scnc_group_add_del_user.o >a - scnc_list_group.o >a - scnc_get_next_gid.o >ranlib libscnc_group.a >ranlib: libscnc_group.a: Inappropriate file type or format >*** Error code 1 ranlib is broken on files with odd length >= 17 in -stable. This is fixed in -current. ar was broken on files with odd length >= 17 in 2.0.5. The combined brokenness apparently allowed ranlib to work in 2.0.5. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 17:15:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA03820 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:15:50 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03814 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:15:47 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id UAA25336; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:07:05 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:07:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: kern/805: SMC Ultra 8216 incorrectly probed (if_ed driver) To: John Hay cc: henrich@msu.edu, FreeBSD-hackers In-Reply-To: <199511010647.IAA18778@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, John Hay wrote: > I have tried out the suggested fix that Steve Piette send a while back to > this list and it works fine on my 8216C cards. I don't have any 8416 cards > to test it on. I have attached Steve's message and at the end a diff that I > made relative to -current. I would like people to try it out and see if it > breaks the probing of the 8416 cards or maybe something else. And then maybe > we can get this into current? John and Steve, thank you very much! works nicely with the card that i have here (SMC 8216 UltraChip). I have reinstalled their ethernet card and pulled mine ;) jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 17:20:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA03955 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:20:46 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03950 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:20:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA00402 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:20:19 -0800 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Andy Tanenbaum: Free UNIX clone (MINIX) available via WWW/FTP Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 17:20:19 -0800 Message-ID: <400.815880019@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just got this as an announce submission. I'm not going to approve it because, as interesting as it may be, it really has nothing whatsoever to do with FreeBSD. However, I felt that this might be giving Andy short-shrift and might actually be of interest to some of you here, so I'm forwarding it to hackers instead. Jordan ------- Forwarded Message To: comp-unix-bsd-freebsd-announce@NL.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce,comp.os.coherent Path: ast From: ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) Subject: Free UNIX clone (MINIX) available via WWW/FTP Nntp-Posting-Host: kits.cs.vu.nl Sender: news@cs.vu.nl Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:45:26 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 26 This message formally announces MINIX 1.7.1. MINIX is a UNIX clone that is now available for free via the Internet for educational and research use. It runs in 16-bit mode on the 8088 and 286, and in 32-bit mode on the 386, 486, and Pentium. The complete OS source code is included in the distribution. A book telling how an older version of MINIX works internally is available; a new version covering the current code will be out in 1996. MINIX has been written with the intention that people can understand how it works. This makes it a suitable system for learning about operating system internals. For all the details and hyperlinks you can click on to get MINIX, see: http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/minix.html For people with FTP access but no Web access, see ftp.cs.vu.nl:pub/minix. There is an active MINIX newsgroup for questions, discussion, new software, etc.: comp.os.minix Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl) ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 17:59:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA05695 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:59:33 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA05678 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:59:23 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA05842; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:59:13 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511090159.RAA05842@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Andy Tanenbaum: Free UNIX clone (MINIX) available via WWW/FTP To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:59:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <400.815880019@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 8, 95 05:20:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2000 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think it should be passed on to announce with a prefix saying that 'this is what to ell people that ask about running FreeBSD on their 286.. it should also be in the FAQ.. > > I just got this as an announce submission. I'm not going to approve > it because, as interesting as it may be, it really has nothing > whatsoever to do with FreeBSD. However, I felt that this might be > giving Andy short-shrift and might actually be of interest to some of > you here, so I'm forwarding it to hackers instead. > > Jordan > ------- Forwarded Message > > To: comp-unix-bsd-freebsd-announce@NL.net > Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce,comp.os.coherent > Path: ast > From: ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) > Subject: Free UNIX clone (MINIX) available via WWW/FTP > Nntp-Posting-Host: kits.cs.vu.nl > Sender: news@cs.vu.nl > Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam > Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:45:26 GMT > Message-Id: > Lines: 26 > > > This message formally announces MINIX 1.7.1. > > MINIX is a UNIX clone that is now available for free via the Internet for > educational and research use. > > It runs in 16-bit mode on the 8088 and 286, and in 32-bit mode on the > 386, 486, and Pentium. The complete OS source code is included in the > distribution. A book telling how an older version of MINIX works internally > is available; a new version covering the current code will be out in 1996. > MINIX has been written with the intention that people can understand how it > works. This makes it a suitable system for learning about operating system > internals. > > For all the details and hyperlinks you can click on to get MINIX, see: > > http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/minix.html > > For people with FTP access but no Web access, see ftp.cs.vu.nl:pub/minix. > > There is an active MINIX newsgroup for questions, discussion, new software, > etc.: comp.os.minix > > Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl) > > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 18:11:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA06095 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:11:20 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA06090 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:11:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00849; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:10:51 -0800 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Andy Tanenbaum: Free UNIX clone (MINIX) available via WWW/FTP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 17:59:13 PST." <199511090159.RAA05842@ref.tfs.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 18:10:51 -0800 Message-ID: <847.815883051@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think it should be passed on to announce with a prefix saying that > 'this is what to ell people that ask about running FreeBSD on their 286.. > it should also be in the FAQ.. Uh. That's really reaching, Julian.. :-) Minix != FreeBSD just as Xenix != FreeBSD and you hardly see us giving pointers to Xenix. I will neither approve it nor go to any special trouble to mention it in the FAQ.. Not to be heartless, I just don't see the need or relevance. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 18:26:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA06657 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:26:08 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA06651 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:26:04 -0800 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA02056; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:25:08 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199511090225.VAA02056@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: Hmmm ranlib prob in 1104-SNAP To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:25:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, davidg@root.com In-Reply-To: <199511090045.LAA18374@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 9, 95 11:45:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 267 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > ranlib is broken on files with odd length >= 17 in -stable. This is fixed > in -current. Shouldnt we pull this into -stable ? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 19:16:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA08830 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:16:03 -0800 Received: from sumter.awod.com (awod.com [198.81.225.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA08817 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:15:55 -0800 Received: from spr.awod.com (ppps03.awod.com [198.81.225.83]) by sumter.awod.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15317 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:13:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:13:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199511090313.WAA15317@sumter.awod.com> X-Sender: srob@awod.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Sean P. Robertson" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am inteested in using Netatalk to print Macintosh (written under ARDI's Macintosh Emulator) and other Postscript files across an Ethertalk Network. Does anyone know what version of Netatalk works under FreeBSD. The Linux guys are incorporating Ethertalk networking into their Kernel via Netatalk. My office uses FreeBSD for its servers and development machines and I would like to incorporate Netatalk into my setup. If Netatalk is not the best solution for this, does anyone know what is? Jordan Hubbard suggested that I contact you guys. Sean P. Robertson A World of Difference, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 19:29:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA09374 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:29:18 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA09360 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:29:02 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA07484 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:28:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199511090328.TAA07484@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Xing's xnetview Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 19:28:40 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, has anyone tried the linux version of xnetview ? I am getting: ./xnetview ./xnetview: using incompatible library '/usr/lib/libc.so.4' Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 resolv+: "bind" is an invalid keyword resolv+: "hosts" is an invalid keyword Xnetview v1.0b2.0 (Linux) (c) 1993-1994 Xing Technology. And is not able to locate any of the servers so I guess this is a problem "resolv" incompatibility issue. Tnks, Amancio ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: rem-conf-request@es.net Received: from osi-east.es.net (osi-east.es.net [128.55.32.33]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA06366 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:08:13 -0800 Received: from viipuri.nersc.gov by osi-east.es.net with ESnet SMTP (PP); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:29:25 -0800 Received: by viipuri.nersc.gov (4.1/ESnet-1.2) id AA24147; Wed, 8 Nov 95 14:29:24 PST Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 14:29:24 PST From: ari@es.net (Ari Ollikainen) Message-Id: <9511082229.AA24147@viipuri.nersc.gov> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: More NetClutter: Shows on the 'net Reproduced without permission from: http://tecweb.cmp.com/ia/dailies/daily.htm#story1 Video goes live on the Internet Two vendors touting technology that can broadcast real-time video over the Internet are playing one-upsmanship by delivering video coverage of major industry trade shows over the Net. Next week, Xing Technology Corp., Arroyo Grande, Calif., and partners will broadcast video coverage of the entire Comdex trade show live over the Internet. Earlier this month, start-up VDOnet Corp. launched its competing video-over-the-Net technology at the Internet World trade show, including the delivery of keynote addresses and reports from the show floor. Although Net surfers have been able to download video clips over the Internet for some time, they were required to spend several minutes or more downloading large files, playing them back from their hard drives. With Xing and VDOnet, users click on a video link from their Web browser, which fires up the video player. Within seconds the video and synchronized audio begins playing back on-screen. And thanks to video compression technologies, even modem users running 14.4 kb/s modems can see the "Net-casts," albeit only at rates of several frames per second. Xing's StreamWorks technology was unveiled this summer. It uses software-based MPEG compression to deliver video and high-quality audio over Internet Protocol networks, including private networks and the Internet. Last month, Xing announced a new version of StreamWorks that can deliver video even to users with low-speed modems. A process called "thinning" narrows the video stream and sends only essential frames down to the user, said Howard Gordon, Xing president and CEO. This week, Xing will partner with Array Microsystems Inc, Los Gatos, Calif., Best Internet Communications, Mountain View, Calif., and Visitel Network, Las Vegas, to deliver around-the-clock, 120-hour video coverage of Comdex over the Internet. Beginning today, the coverage can be seen on the Web at http://www.comdextv.com . A Xing player--for Windows, Macintosh and Unix platforms--can be downloaded from http://www.xingtech.com . Separate integrated server/encoders are available for companies wanting to provide video content over the Internet, starting at $3,500 and ranging up to $50,000, depending on capacity. VDOnet, meanwhile, launched its VDOLive technology earlier this month. While Xing asks users to encode content to four different levels depending on the type of content they want to deliver -- 8.5 kb/s, 24 kb/s, 56 kb/s or 112 kb/s --VDOnet's difference is that it lets content providers deliver just one video source that can then be scaled on-the-fly to work over either high-speed or low-speed Net connections, said Asaf Mohr, VDOnet's president and CEO. "You get what the network gives you, the best video quality that your connection affords," said Mohr. "For content providers, this has huge business implications. They can encode content once" and deliver it over both large and small network pipes. VDOnet claims to be able to deliver between 10 to 15 frames per second over a 28.8 kb/s modem connection using its proprietary video compression algorithms, based in part on wavelet compression technology. VDOnet has a beta version of its player available on its Web site at http://www.vdolive.com . Although it has not officially announced them yet, the company also plans to deliver encoders and servers for delivering compressed video streams, Mohr said. - -- Richard Karpinski - ----------------------D--I--S--C--L--A--I--M--E--R-------------------------- NOTHING in this posting should be misconstrued to represent the view(s) and/or official position of the US Government, Department of Energy, University of California, LLNL, RECOM Technologies Inc. or of anyone else other than the undersigned who is not responsible for the accuracy nor wording of material quoted or otherwise extracted from press releases and/or vendors' product information. Mention of a specific vendor/product/service does not constitute endorsement. Ari@ES.net _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Ari Ollikainen {VOX: 510 423-5962} _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Energy Sciences Network {FAX: 510 423-8744} _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ National Energy Research Supercomputer Center _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ MailStop L-561, PO BOX 5509, Livermore, CA. 94551 ~~RECOM Technologies Inc.~~ ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 20:07:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA10544 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:07:51 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA10462 ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:06:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA08803; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:05:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199511090405.VAA08803@rover.village.org> To: sos@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux emul, QMAGIC libs Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 08 Nov 1995 00:22:11 PST Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 21:05:50 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Precisely !, Linux's ZMAGIC binaries are loaded at an offset off 1024 into : the file (requiring a VM system with a 1024byte granularity), which : we cannot directly handle, thus the binary is loaded into memory : in one go (no pageing etc) to accomplish this (I'm not sure how Linux : handles this themselves). There is one file format that linux loads entirely into memory before executing it. NMAGIC sticks in my head, but it could have been ZMAGIC. At least this was true in the 0.99p13 time frame, I'm not sure what it does now... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 22:10:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA21219 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:10:54 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA21206 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:10:44 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id AAA21871; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:08:54 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511090608.AAA21871@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R WARNING!! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:08:54 -0600 (CST) Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <29383.815873027@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 8, 95 03:23:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm not building it, I'm simply _installing_ it. Small margin for f***up on > > my part, alas.... and the source is gone from ftp.cdrom.com, so there's no > > chance to play with that SNAP any longer. > > What source is? 951104-SNAP is still there, where it always was! No, the one before that (95102? I think). However, they appear to have identical dysfunctionality. Point (which I was trying to get across) being, BOTH SNAP's yield broken telnet/telnetd when installed like this. You said this was fixed in the later SNAP :-) telnet hummin.sol.net - SNAP 95102? - no sources telnet anacreon.sol.net - SNAP 951104 - sources I haven't had time to look at telnet smyrno.sol.net - 2.0.5R, Kerberized, my way, and sporting a DES-encrypted telnet/telnetd that works. You get a login: prompt from that last one... If you are slamming tags today I do not know if I will have time to "repair" this in time - my free time today is minimal, maybe a few hours to work on it tonite. I can repost my "from-scratch" notes about how I Kerberized smyrno.sol.net. Or this can get shipped broken, which is silly. Or maybe I can whack this off really quickly...? ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 22:25:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA21560 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:25:44 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA21555 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:25:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11193; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:23:52 -0800 To: Joe Greco cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R WARNING!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 00:08:54 CST." <199511090608.AAA21871@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 22:23:51 -0800 Message-ID: <11190.815898231@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > No, the one before that (95102? I think). However, they appear to have > identical dysfunctionality. You didn't exactly make this clear.. :-) Thanks for the additional detail. I'll make a general point here since some people don't seem to be aware of a couple of things: 1. I get a LOT of email. Even if you just talked to me the day before, please don't assume that I'll remember what we were talking about. At any given time, I have between 40 and 50 simultaneous dialogs going on. Please include context. 2. If you're having problems, please be sure to include info about version of FreeBSD you're using. The only exception I can deal with is if you're genuinely using the absolutely latest bang-up-to-date snapshot (check ftp.cdrom.com before assuming that you've got the latest if you're not on the freebsd-announce mailing list). 3. If you're reporting a "drop dead" problem then please list all the steps you can remember that led up to the problem's occurance. Everything after "first, I turned it on" is generally relevant! If you give me too much detail, I'll just filter it. If you give me too little, I'm left scratching my head. 4. Yes, I'm pretty short-tempered and irritable right now. You'd be too if you had Walnut Creek CDROM on the phone, screeching for their 6 months late CD, and several dozens users dropping horror stories in your mailbox about how everything is still miserably broken. All heads I've bitten off over the last few weeks will be returned with a short apology after the 2.1 CD goes to replication.. :-) > Point (which I was trying to get across) being, BOTH SNAP's yield broken > telnet/telnetd when installed like this. You said this was fixed in the > later SNAP :-) Well, I genuinely thought it was. I couldn't reproduce it on my laptop, anyway. You're selecting *both* krb and des distributions from the Secure menu? You can have des alone, but not krb alone. > If you are slamming tags today I do not know if I will have time to > "repair" this in time - my free time today is minimal, maybe a few hours to > work on it tonite. I can repost my "from-scratch" notes about how I > Kerberized smyrno.sol.net. Or this can get shipped broken, which is silly. I'm not slamming tags today. My release machine has developed spontaneous sig 11's that aborted my last 3 release builds. I'm about ready to throw it out the window or put in a 75Mhz Pentium. :-( Jordan P.S. Applications for release engineer now being cheerfully accepted at the door! :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 22:28:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA21755 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:28:17 -0800 Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA21739 ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:28:14 -0800 Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA08169; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:28:11 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id AAA12245; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:28:58 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511090628.AAA12245@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Kerb Encr Telnet!! I found the problem! To: jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jgreco@mei.com Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 0:28:56 CST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2075 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This was "painfully obvious" when I looked at it: anacreon# ls -l /usr/bin/telnet -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 77824 Nov 4 18:52 /usr/bin/telnet anacreon# cd /usr/lib anacreon# ls -l libtel* -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 39832 Nov 4 18:52 libtelnet.a -r--r--r-- 1 2035 wheel 9173 Jan 25 1995 libtelnet.so.2.0 -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 43846 Nov 4 18:52 libtelnet_p.a anacreon# ls -l /usr/lib/libde* -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 22876 Nov 4 19:03 /usr/lib/libdes.a -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 27134 Nov 4 19:03 /usr/lib/libdes.so.2.0 -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 25842 Nov 4 19:03 /usr/lib/libdes_p.a -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 6084 Nov 4 18:52 /usr/lib/libdescrypt.a -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 13637 Nov 4 18:52 /usr/lib/libdescrypt.so.2.0 -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 7258 Nov 4 18:52 /usr/lib/libdescrypt_p.a anacreon# ls -l /usr/lib/libkrb* -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 65974 Nov 4 19:03 /usr/lib/libkrb.a -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 63470 Nov 4 19:03 /usr/lib/libkrb.so.2.0 -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 76350 Nov 4 19:03 /usr/lib/libkrb_p.a anacreon# ldd /usr/bin/telnet /usr/bin/telnet: -ltermcap.2 => /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.1 (0x802a000) -ltelnet.2 => /usr/lib/libtelnet.so.2.0 (0x802e000) -ldes.2 => /usr/lib/libdes.so.2.0 (0x8030000) -lkrb.2 => /usr/lib/libkrb.so.2.0 (0x803a000) -lc.2 => /usr/lib/libc.so.2.2 (0x8050000) -lcom_err.2 => /usr/lib/libcom_err.so.2.0 (0x80b6000) anacreon# Ugly Bogon #1: libtelnet.so is not being regenerated by ANYONE, it appears... and this SAME .so has been included in 2.0.5R, etc. Fascinating. Ugly Bogon #2: You wouldn't tend to notice this unless you needed the additional functionality the library has to have for encr telnet. My notes do cover how to fix this - but for now I have to be up way early this morning and I have to get a few hours' sleep. It's just a few Makefile directives.. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 22:46:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA22600 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:46:37 -0800 Received: from nike.efn.org (garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22594 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:46:32 -0800 Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA25692; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:50:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:50:39 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: install problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk well... it looks like to get a filesystem it has to be bigger than 1M... not equal... if you try to make a partion of 2048 sectors it comes back with a "The minimum filesystem size is 1MB", if you up it to 2049 then it will work fine... also... if you put in 1M it will fail (because it fails on 2048 I assume)... hope this helps... TTYL.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) GCS/M/Sd#h+s+!gau-a--w++++vC+++++UF++++P---E---N++W---M--V--Y+t+5++G+b+D++ B----eu+h++!f++n---- CD5OUF++++.L-------2W.DM----N.9---NET2SP3s.2,4s.,4d.2,6--- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 22:47:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA22682 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:47:20 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA22672 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:47:16 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Thu, 9 Nov 95 06:47 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA22079; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:46:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199511090646.HAA22079@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Andy Tanenbaum: Free UNIX clone (MINIX) available via WWW/FTP To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:46:43 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <847.815883051@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 8, 95 06:10:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 735 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > I think it should be passed on to announce with a prefix saying that > > 'this is what to ell people that ask about running FreeBSD on their 286.. > > it should also be in the FAQ.. > > Uh. That's really reaching, Julian.. :-) > > Minix != FreeBSD just as Xenix != FreeBSD and you hardly see us giving > pointers to Xenix. Well, there are two obvious reasons why not, both of which don't apply to Minix: 1. Xenix isn't free. In fact, it costs an arm, a leg, and a mind. 2. Current versions of Xenix don't run on 286s I don't think it would do any harm to give pointers to people who don't have the hardware to run FreeBSD. I don't think it would do much harm not to, for that matter. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 22:48:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA22807 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:48:38 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22794 ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:48:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA29984; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:46:44 -0800 To: Joe Greco cc: jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jgreco@mei.com Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet!! I found the problem! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 00:28:56 CST." <199511090628.AAA12245@solaria.sol.net> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 22:46:44 -0800 Message-ID: <29977.815899604@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > This was "painfully obvious" when I looked at it: > > anacreon# ls -l /usr/bin/telnet > -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 77824 Nov 4 18:52 /usr/bin/telnet > anacreon# cd /usr/lib > anacreon# ls -l libtel* > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 39832 Nov 4 18:52 libtelnet.a > -r--r--r-- 1 2035 wheel 9173 Jan 25 1995 libtelnet.so.2.0 > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 43846 Nov 4 18:52 libtelnet_p.a But.. I don't understand how you have a `libtelnet.so.2.0' dated Jan 25 on a fresh 2.1.0-950411-SNAP installation? Also, it makes no sense that telnet should die after loading the des distribution - the des distribution *does not contain* telnet or libtelnet! Check and see for yourself: jkh@freefall-> tar tvzf des.aa drwxr-xr-x root/wheel 0 Nov 4 17:38 1995 ./ drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 bin/ -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 118784 Nov 4 16:52 1995 bin/ed -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 bin/red link to bin/ed drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 sbin/ -r-x------ bin/bin 147456 Nov 4 16:52 1995 sbin/init drwxr-xr-x root/wheel 0 Nov 4 17:38 1995 usr/ drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/bin/ -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 16384 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/bin/bdes drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/ -r--r--r-- bin/bin 5456 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcipher.a -r--r--r-- bin/bin 9549 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcipher.so.2.0 -r--r--r-- bin/bin 6084 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libdescrypt.a -r--r--r-- bin/bin 7258 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libdescrypt_p.a -r--r--r-- bin/bin 13637 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libdescrypt.so.2.0 lrwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcrypt.so.2.0 -> libdescrypt.so.2.0 lrwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcrypt.a -> libdescrypt.a lrwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcrypt_p.a -> libdescrypt_p.a drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 17:38 1995 usr/share/ drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 17:38 1995 usr/share/man/ drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/share/man/man1/ -r--r--r-- bin/bin 4413 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/share/man/man1/bdes.1.gz Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 22:53:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA23079 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:53:14 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23074 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:53:09 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA01531; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:12:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199511090712.XAA01531@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), jmb@kryten.atinc.com, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet 2.1R WARNING!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 00:08:54 CST." <199511090608.AAA21871@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 23:12:28 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >telnet hummin.sol.net - SNAP 95102? - no sources >telnet anacreon.sol.net - SNAP 951104 - sources I haven't had time to > look at >telnet smyrno.sol.net - 2.0.5R, Kerberized, my way, and sporting a > DES-encrypted telnet/telnetd that works. > >You get a login: prompt from that last one... And Thud.FreeBSD.org - SNAP 951104 (krb and des dists) works fine. I haven't tested without des or with des but no krb. The des dist by itself should not install any telnet binaries. If it doesn't have any, then something is wrong with westhill's build environment and the bin binaries are contaminated. >- >Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net >Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 23:19:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA24259 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:19:08 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA24254 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:19:06 -0800 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA00553 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:19:05 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199511090719.CAA00553@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: make install on /usr/src items To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:19:05 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 443 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Any idea why make install fails on most items in the src tree w/ 1104SNAP ? I just grabbed ar for example, and a make install gives: install -c -s -o bin -g bin -m 555 ar usage: install [-cs] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file1 file2; or file1 ... fileN directory *** Error code 1 -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 23:22:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA24427 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:22:49 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA24422 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:22:44 -0800 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA00606; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:21:34 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199511090721.CAA00606@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: Hmmm ranlib prob in 1104-SNAP To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:21:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, davidg@root.com In-Reply-To: <199511090045.LAA18374@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 9, 95 11:45:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 670 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > ranlib is broken on files with odd length >= 17 in -stable. This is fixed > in -current. > > ar was broken on files with odd length >= 17 in 2.0.5. The combined > brokenness apparently allowed ranlib to work in 2.0.5. The ranlib+ar from -current works as they should in 1104-SNAP. May I suggest highly that we pull this into 2.1R before release? It seems something as significant as building libraries failing could get us some egg on our face for a reliability/stability release.. (Gee Guys, I cant even build my libraries!) -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 23:29:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA24711 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:29:55 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA24706 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:29:53 -0800 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA00684 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:29:52 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199511090729.CAA00684@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Looks like that time again.. Jordan.. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:29:52 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 537 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Okay Jordan, it looks like its time to say once again, THANK YOU! (for all your glorious and well appreciated work on FreeBSD). It wont kill you (or any of us for that matter) if you decide to say the hell with it and take a day off here before the release. One more day wont hurt anyone, and if it will save a few of your brain cells (or maybe cause a few to be destroyed ;) its well worth it! -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 23:34:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA24843 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:34:50 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA24837 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:34:44 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA09384; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:30:24 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511090730.HAA09384@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: make install on /usr/src items To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:30:24 +0000 () Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511090719.CAA00553@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Nov 9, 95 02:19:05 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 950 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Charles Henrich stands accused of saying: > > Any idea why make install fails on most items in the src tree w/ 1104SNAP ? I > just grabbed ar for example, and a make install gives: > > install -c -s -o bin -g bin -m 555 ar > usage: install [-cs] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file1 file2; > or file1 ... fileN directory > *** Error code 1 You'll need to make depend first, if this is the problem I think it is. Also, is the source tree in its 'default' location? > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 8 23:43:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA25164 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:43:20 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA25150 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:43:15 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA01535; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:45:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:45:19 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511090745.AAA01535@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make install on /usr/src items In-Reply-To: <199511090719.CAA00553@crh.cl.msu.edu> References: <199511090719.CAA00553@crh.cl.msu.edu> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Any idea why make install fails on most items in the src tree w/ 1104SNAP ? I > just grabbed ar for example, and a make install gives: > > install -c -s -o bin -g bin -m 555 ar > usage: install [-cs] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file1 file2; > or file1 ... fileN directory Umm, in the above example, there is not 'file2' or 'directory' parameter. Are you missing ../Makefile.inc? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 00:02:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA25719 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:02:42 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA25708 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:02:34 -0800 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA00855; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:02:16 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199511090802.DAA00855@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: make install on /usr/src items To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:02:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511090745.AAA01535@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 9, 95 00:45:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 673 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> just grabbed ar for example, and a make install gives: >> >> install -c -s -o bin -g bin -m 555 ar >> usage: install [-cs] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file1 file2; >> or file1 ... fileN directory > > Umm, in the above example, there is not 'file2' or 'directory' > parameter. Are you missing ../Makefile.inc? Aha, I admit, Im stooopit sometimes. I just grabed the (cd /src/usr.bin/;get ranlib.tar). Wasnt aware of the previous level makefile.. Dont mind me, im just going to go hide in a corner now.. :) -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 00:38:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA26938 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:38:52 -0800 Received: from novidc.blr.novell.com (novidc.blr.novell.com [164.99.119.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA26915 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:38:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 14:03 IST From: koshy@blr.novell.com To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com () Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Load/Store using FPU regs ... Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: <30a1bccf0.4265@novidc.blr.novell.com> In-reply-to: <199511071056.CAA02766@rah.star-gate.com> (hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Content-Length: 1034 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Amancio" == "Amancio Hasty Jr " writes: >>> L20: fldl (%ebx) fstpl (%ecx) ... >>> >>> The resulting program copies data at about 60 Megabytes per >>> second. Using the FPU registers for memmove/bitblt operations was a technique I first saw on an i860. We used to do a series of reads into FPU regs followed by a series of writes. This benefited us because the memory subsystem had an 11 clock latency for the first read, but could deliver successive quadwords every 3 or so clocks. Latency for the first write was less than that for a read but was still significant. Thus 16 reads followed by 16 writes ran faster than 16 reads alternated with 16 writes. Now, I'm not sure if this approach can be used across all processors. Some FPU's could raise exceptions if illegal bit-patterns are loaded into its registers. The x86 FPU in particular has very few registers and a LIFO access pattern for loads and stores so I don't know if the same trick would work well for it. Koshy From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 01:05:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA28032 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:05:49 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA28014 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:05:44 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA09519 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:01:31 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511090901.JAA09519@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:01:31 +0000 () In-Reply-To: <30a1bccf0.4265@novidc.blr.novell.com> from "koshy@blr.novell.com" at Nov 9, 95 02:03:00 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1270 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk koshy@blr.novell.com stands accused of saying: > >>> L20: fldl (%ebx) fstpl (%ecx) ... > >>> > >>> The resulting program copies data at about 60 Megabytes per > >>> second. > > > Using the FPU registers for memmove/bitblt operations was a technique > I first saw on an i860. We used to do a series of reads into FPU regs Wheras those of us with 68K backgrounds are rolling in the aisles about this one 8) (For the uninitiated; the 68K can read/write arbitrary groups of registers and increment/decrement the source/destination pointers at the same time. Depending on coding technique, you can read or write as much as 56 bytes at a time; the big win (microcoded processor, remember) being no instruction fetches between reads. It's a pity that Motorola have axed it as a mainstram family 8( ) Anyway, enough from the nostalgia corner - I'm too young for this! -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 01:32:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA29544 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:32:05 -0800 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA29536 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:31:49 -0800 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA26037; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:24:45 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199511090924.KAA26037@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: Andy Tanenbaum: Free UNIX clone (MINIX) available via WWW/FTP To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:24:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511090159.RAA05842@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 8, 95 05:59:13 pm Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-NCC-RegID: it.ibenet X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 485 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Julian Elischer (Thu Nov 9 02:59:13 1995): > I think it should be passed on to announce with a prefix saying that > 'this is what to ell people that ask about running FreeBSD on their 286.. > it should also be in the FAQ.. FWIW, I agree! Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 01:50:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA01407 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:50:11 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA01390 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:50:03 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tDTad-0003wZC; Thu, 9 Nov 95 01:48 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA06256; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:28:59 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: koshy@blr.novell.com cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 14:03:00 +0700." <30a1bccf0.4265@novidc.blr.novell.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 09:28:58 +0100 Message-ID: <6254.815905738@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>> "Amancio" == "Amancio Hasty Jr " writes: > > >>> L20: fldl (%ebx) fstpl (%ecx) ... > >>> > >>> The resulting program copies data at about 60 Megabytes per > >>> second. > > > Using the FPU registers for memmove/bitblt operations was a technique > I first saw on an i860. We used to do a series of reads into FPU regs > ... I think I saw something like that about 8 years back on an 20 year old system... > Now, I'm not sure if this approach can be used across all processors. > Some FPU's could raise exceptions if illegal bit-patterns are loaded > into its registers. The x86 FPU in particular has very few registers > and a LIFO access pattern for loads and stores so I don't know if the > same trick would work well for it. Not to mention that you might not have a FPU. I guess it would be interesting to try to do the zero of pages with it... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 01:51:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA01542 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:51:16 -0800 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA01480 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:50:45 -0800 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA26073; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:45:18 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199511090945.KAA26073@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:45:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <847.815883051@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 8, 95 06:10:51 pm Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-NCC-RegID: it.ibenet X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 904 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard (Thu Nov 9 03:10:51 1995): > Minix != FreeBSD just as Xenix != FreeBSD and you hardly see us giving > pointers to Xenix. I will neither approve it nor go to any special > trouble to mention it in the FAQ.. Not to be heartless, I just don't > see the need or relevance. Ok. I'm Joe User a f@#$ing newbie, I only have a f#$%ing 286 so I write to freebsd-questions and ask'em "Ho guys what kind of UNIX *can* I run on my wonderful 286", and get no answer. When I buy a P100 I will go *for sure* to the linux mailing lists where people is so kind to give advise to me, poor owner of a 286. Sorry Jordan, this time you're wrong, IMHO. Regards, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 01:59:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA02193 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:59:33 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA02187 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:59:28 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tDTlL-0003x2C; Thu, 9 Nov 95 01:59 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA06342; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:40:03 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 09:01:31 GMT." <199511090901.JAA09519@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 09:40:03 +0100 Message-ID: <6340.815906403@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > koshy@blr.novell.com stands accused of saying: > > >>> L20: fldl (%ebx) fstpl (%ecx) ... > > >>> > > >>> The resulting program copies data at about 60 Megabytes per > > >>> second. > > > > > > Using the FPU registers for memmove/bitblt operations was a technique > > I first saw on an i860. We used to do a series of reads into FPU regs > > Wheras those of us with 68K backgrounds are rolling in the aisles about > this one 8) > > (For the uninitiated; the 68K can read/write arbitrary groups of registers > and increment/decrement the source/destination pointers at the same time. > Depending on coding technique, you can read or write as much as 56 > bytes at a time; the big win (microcoded processor, remember) being no > instruction fetches between reads. It's a pity that Motorola have axed > it as a mainstram family 8( ) > > Anyway, enough from the nostalgia corner - I'm too young for this! What you really want of course is a "outside the cache" bzero and bcopy function... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 02:30:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA04053 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:30:29 -0800 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA04043 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:30:17 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA08155; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:25:54 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199511091025.LAA08155@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:25:53 +0100 (MET) Cc: koshy@blr.novell.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6254.815905738@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Nov 9, 95 09:28:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 831 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Now, I'm not sure if this approach can be used across all processors. > > Some FPU's could raise exceptions if illegal bit-patterns are loaded > > into its registers. The x86 FPU in particular has very few registers > > and a LIFO access pattern for loads and stores so I don't know if the > > same trick would work well for it. > > Not to mention that you might not have a FPU. So what ? You still have the FPU emulator :) Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 02:40:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA04701 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:40:59 -0800 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA04679 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:40:47 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA03558 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:36:52 +0100 Message-Id: <199511091036.AA03558@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:36:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." "Xing's xnetview" (Nov 8, 19:28) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 8, 19:28, "Amancio Hasty Jr." wrote: } Subject: Xing's xnetview } } Howdy, } } has anyone tried the linux version of xnetview ? } } I am getting: } } ./xnetview } ./xnetview: using incompatible library '/usr/lib/libc.so.4' } Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 } resolv+: "bind" is an invalid keyword } resolv+: "hosts" is an invalid keyword } Xnetview v1.0b2.0 (Linux) (c) 1993-1994 Xing Technology. Just move /etc/host.conf out of the way. Linux seems to expect some other contents in this file ... Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 03:04:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA06138 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:04:33 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA06124 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:04:25 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA03746; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:59:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199511091059.CAA03746@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), koshy@blr.novell.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:25:53 +0100." <199511091025.LAA08155@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 02:59:42 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Luigi Rizzo said: > > > Now, I'm not sure if this approach can be used across all processors. > > > Some FPU's could raise exceptions if illegal bit-patterns are loaded > > > into its registers. The x86 FPU in particular has very few registers > > > and a LIFO access pattern for loads and stores so I don't know if the > > > same trick would work well for it. > > > > Not to mention that you might not have a FPU. > > So what ? You still have the FPU emulator :) Just ignore Pohl's comment we can probably figure out a clever way to find out if we have a FPU . What would be nice to see is if there is indeed a performance gain by using the floating point instructions if there is for sure I will use it. Cheers, amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 03:23:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA07321 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:23:46 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA07313 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:23:35 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tDV3U-0003viC; Thu, 9 Nov 95 03:22 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA06541; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:02:52 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Luigi Rizzo , koshy@blr.novell.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 02:59:42 PST." <199511091059.CAA03746@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:02:52 +0100 Message-ID: <6539.815911372@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>> Luigi Rizzo said: > > > > Now, I'm not sure if this approach can be used across all processors. > > > > Some FPU's could raise exceptions if illegal bit-patterns are loaded > > > > into its registers. The x86 FPU in particular has very few registers > > > > and a LIFO access pattern for loads and stores so I don't know if the > > > > same trick would work well for it. > > > > > > Not to mention that you might not have a FPU. > > > > So what ? You still have the FPU emulator :) > > Just ignore Pohl's comment we can probably figure out a clever way > to find out if we have a FPU . sure, there's a flag in the kernel, and it's a sysctl var too. > What would be nice to see is if there is indeed a performance gain > by using the floating point instructions if there is for sure I will > use it. The place to use it would be in the Copy-On-Write and Demand-Zero parts of the VM system. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 03:24:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA07393 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:24:39 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA07377 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:24:28 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA03912; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:17:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199511091117.DAA03912@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:36:51 +0100." <199511091036.AA03558@Sysiphos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 03:17:57 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Stefan Esser said: > On Nov 8, 19:28, "Amancio Hasty Jr." wrote: > } Subject: Xing's xnetview > } > } Howdy, > } > } has anyone tried the linux version of xnetview ? > } > } I am getting: > } > } ./xnetview > } ./xnetview: using incompatible library '/usr/lib/libc.so.4' > } Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 > } resolv+: "bind" is an invalid keyword > } resolv+: "hosts" is an invalid keyword > } Xnetview v1.0b2.0 (Linux) (c) 1993-1994 Xing Technology. > > Just move /etc/host.conf out of the way. > Linux seems to expect some other contents > in this file ... Tnks! that did the trick now on to sound driver blues because when I tried to play a stream it says that it can't initialize the audio subsystem whatever that means. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 03:38:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA08264 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:38:53 -0800 Received: from core.apana.org.au (root@core.apana.org.au [203.12.236.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA08254 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:38:40 -0800 Received: from loose.apana.org.au (root@loose.apana.org.au [202.12.87.26]) by core.apana.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04442 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:37:57 +1100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by loose.apana.org.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with UUCP id WAA18475 for apana-lists-os-freebsd-hackers@apana.org.au; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:17:42 +1100 Received: (from mjb@localhost) by siva.apana.org.au (8.6.11/8.6.12) id QAA02020; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:47:57 +1100 To: apana-lists-os-freebsd-hackers@apana.org.au Path: not-for-mail From: mjb@siva.apana.org.au (Marcus Barczak) Newsgroups: apana.lists.os.freebsd.hackers Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD Date: 9 Nov 1995 16:47:56 +1100 Organization: siva Lines: 18 Message-ID: <47s4mc$1v1@siva.apana.org.au> References: <199511071508.HAA24485@who.cdrom.com> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk simonm@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Simon Marlow) writes: >Ok, so now that we have Linux emulation, what is that chance of my >being able to set up a Linux compilation environment under FreeBSD? Is there really any practical reason why you would be wanting to build linux bins on your FreeBSD machine ? >I'd need include files, libraries, gcc, ld, as, ar, and various other >tools, which presumably would all go under /compat/linux. Can anyone >foresee any problems with this? Wouldn't it be just as easy to create a small 60 or so meg partition and just install the development tools. Cheers -- Marcus Barczak From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 03:53:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA08931 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:53:21 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA08924 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:53:13 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA00351; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:50:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199511091150.DAA00351@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), koshy@blr.novell.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:35:24 +0100." <199511091135.MAA08283@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 03:50:57 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Luigi Rizzo said: > > > > > Not to mention that you might not have a FPU. > > > > > > > > So what ? You still have the FPU emulator :) > > > > > > Just ignore Pohl's comment we can probably figure out a clever way > > > to find out if we have a FPU . > > sure, there's a flag in the kernel, and it's a sysctl var too. > > I was just kidding, but the discussion has become serious! > One question: what is the behaviour of our FP library if there is not a > coprocessor: do we just trap into the emulator, or the code is > magically replaced (e.g. at the first execution) with a call to the > proper code ? > > Anyways using the same technique here seems expensive: the code > should look like > > if (kern.have.fpu) { > ... fragment of code using FP regs > } else { > ... fragment of code using standard techniques > } > > and I don't believe something like this can be done easily by the > compiler in a machine-independent way. > > > The place to use it would be in the Copy-On-Write and Demand-Zero > > parts of the VM system. > > If the scope is limited to such cases, then the kernel could include > appropriate code. > Let us not forget about the apps... A while back someone did a performance study on 386bsd and found out that in a typical scenario whatever that was the kernel spend a considerable amount of time copying things around maybe from the user space to the kernel space. Also, something like X can benefit a lot for cases like image copies,etc... Well thats the last comment about this got to go back to sound driver hacking... Have fun guys, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 03:57:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA09122 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:57:19 -0800 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09059 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:55:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA08283; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:35:25 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199511091135.MAA08283@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:35:24 +0100 (MET) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, koshy@blr.novell.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6539.815911372@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Nov 9, 95 11:02:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1462 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Not to mention that you might not have a FPU. > > > > > > So what ? You still have the FPU emulator :) > > > > Just ignore Pohl's comment we can probably figure out a clever way > > to find out if we have a FPU . > sure, there's a flag in the kernel, and it's a sysctl var too. I was just kidding, but the discussion has become serious! One question: what is the behaviour of our FP library if there is not a coprocessor: do we just trap into the emulator, or the code is magically replaced (e.g. at the first execution) with a call to the proper code ? Anyways using the same technique here seems expensive: the code should look like if (kern.have.fpu) { ... fragment of code using FP regs } else { ... fragment of code using standard techniques } and I don't believe something like this can be done easily by the compiler in a machine-independent way. > The place to use it would be in the Copy-On-Write and Demand-Zero > parts of the VM system. If the scope is limited to such cases, then the kernel could include appropriate code. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 03:57:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA09135 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:57:20 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09118 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:57:17 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA00407; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:56:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199511091156.DAA00407@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:36:51 +0100." <199511091036.AA03558@Sysiphos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 03:56:01 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Round Two: I found why xnetview was failing to open /dev/dsp and it has to deal with the way that I have my sound driver configured --- /dev/dsp can't be opened for reading and writing. At any rate, that was an easy problem to bypass over here. Since this is not the multimedia list , I will spare you the details. Now the problem that I have is this: LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=6, typ=0x450(P), num=0x5 not implemented Hopefully someone can give me a pointer to what it means and how to make the change in the linux emulation module. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 04:13:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA10129 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 04:13:12 -0800 Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA10118 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 04:13:07 -0800 Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA18874; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:12:06 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199511091212.HAA18874@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:12:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511090945.KAA26073@strider.ibenet.it> from "Piero Serini" at Nov 9, 95 10:45:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1080 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard (Thu Nov 9 03:10:51 1995): > > Minix != FreeBSD just as Xenix != FreeBSD and you hardly see us giving > > pointers to Xenix. I will neither approve it nor go to any special > > trouble to mention it in the FAQ.. Not to be heartless, I just don't > > see the need or relevance. Quoting from Piero Serini > > Ok. I'm Joe User a f@#$ing newbie, I only have a f#$%ing 286 so I > write to freebsd-questions and ask'em "Ho guys what kind of UNIX > *can* I run on my wonderful 286", and get no answer. > > When I buy a P100 I will go *for sure* to the linux mailing lists > where people is so kind to give advise to me, poor owner of a 286. > > Sorry Jordan, this time you're wrong, IMHO. Damn right. Lets lose the not invented here syndrome and be kind do other net citizens. Put a couple of paragraphs in the FAQ (and maybe on the web site...). It costs very little to do others some good here. Bill (who still has a real working copy of Xenix-86 for the 8086/8088 environment and still has people trying to buy it from him.) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 04:17:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA10431 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 04:17:22 -0800 Received: from core.apana.org.au (core.apana.org.au [203.12.236.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA10425 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 04:17:15 -0800 Received: from vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk (vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk [130.209.240.50]) by core.apana.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04990 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:12:13 +1100 Message-Id: <199511091212.XAA04990@core.apana.org.au> Received: from seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk by vanuata.dcs.gla.ac.uk with LOCAL SMTP (PP); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:08:24 +0000 To: mjb@siva.apana.org.au (Marcus Barczak) cc: apana-lists-os-freebsd-hackers@apana.org.au Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "09 Nov 1995 16:47:56 +1100." <47s4mc$1v1@siva.apana.org.au> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:08:02 +0000 From: Simon Marlow Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Ok, so now that we have Linux emulation, what is that chance of my > >being able to set up a Linux compilation environment under FreeBSD? > > Is there really any practical reason why you would be wanting to build > linux bins on your FreeBSD machine ? Yes. The software we are developing requires a Linux and a FreeBSD port, and we only have one machine available. > >I'd need include files, libraries, gcc, ld, as, ar, and various other > >tools, which presumably would all go under /compat/linux. Can anyone > >foresee any problems with this? > > Wouldn't it be just as easy to create a small 60 or so meg partition > and just install the development tools. No, because that means rebooting - so no simultaneous FreeBSD/Linux development. It was a legitimate question! Cheers, Simon -- Simon Marlow simonm@dcs.gla.ac.uk Research Assistant http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~simonm/ finger for PGP public key From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 05:52:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA15461 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 05:52:22 -0800 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA15451 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 05:52:19 -0800 From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.pcs.dec.com by mail1.digital.com; (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA25146; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 05:47:06 -0800 Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.3/24Oct95-0939AM) id AA22411; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:47:11 +0100 Message-Id: <9511091347.AA22411@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> To: Chuck Robey Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from Chuck Robey of Tue, 07 Nov 95 22:23:52 EST. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: gdb Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 14:47:11 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was just noticing the announcement about the latest version of gdb > being avilable, and it made me wonder howcome, when gdb is customized for > so many differenct environments, how come they don't include stuff so > that it would work out of the box on FreeBSD? probably because I never sent in any patches. One thing I noticed was that there's now a freebsd target in config.guess, but it doesn't work because there isn't any freebsd target in config.sub. This is trivial to fix. A bigger problem is that gdb/solib.c doesn't compile for -current. I haven't had time to do more than note this fact. What happens with 2.1 or earlier versions I can't say. I only run -current. The code in bfd seems to be correctly done, at least it compiles with FBSD specific stuff. > Couldn't someone who knows the reasons why, communicate them to Cygnus, > and get us on their list of supported systems? I'll put this on my TODO list. I'm planning to port the newest gdb RSN. Gary J From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 07:02:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA18297 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:02:19 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA18292 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:02:15 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA10050; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:56:54 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511091456.OAA10050@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:56:53 +0000 () Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511091036.AA03558@Sysiphos> from "Stefan Esser" at Nov 9, 95 11:36:51 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 876 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser stands accused of saying: > } ./xnetview: using incompatible library '/usr/lib/libc.so.4' > } Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 > } resolv+: "bind" is an invalid keyword > } resolv+: "hosts" is an invalid keyword > } Xnetview v1.0b2.0 (Linux) (c) 1993-1994 Xing Technology. > > Just move /etc/host.conf out of the way. > Linux seems to expect some other contents in this file ... What happens if you put an empty file in /compat/linux/etc/host.conf? > Regards, STefan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 07:04:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA18422 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:04:22 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA18417 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:04:18 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA10073 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:00:16 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511091500.PAA10073@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Looking for Python programmer for some advice... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:00:16 +0000 () MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 816 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm tinkering with some python code of a foreign origin, with a view to seeing if it can be coaxed to run under FreeBSD. Being a total newcomer to Python, I was wondering if I could ask a few mildly losing questions of someone who has it up and doing useful things under FreeBSD. (I notice that many of the Python Tk demos segfault. This is Not Good. Ooh, Jordan is the maintainer. Maybe I won't pester about this until later 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 07:25:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA19017 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:25:10 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA19009 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:25:05 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA00353; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:23:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199511091523.HAA00353@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Michael Smith cc: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 14:56:53 GMT." <199511091456.OAA10050@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 07:23:19 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Michael Smith said: > Stefan Esser stands accused of saying: > > } ./xnetview: using incompatible library '/usr/lib/libc.so.4' > > } Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 > > } resolv+: "bind" is an invalid keyword > > } resolv+: "hosts" is an invalid keyword > > } Xnetview v1.0b2.0 (Linux) (c) 1993-1994 Xing Technology. > > > > Just move /etc/host.conf out of the way. > > Linux seems to expect some other contents in this file ... > > What happens if you put an empty file in /compat/linux/etc/host.conf? > Same thing however if I move /etc/host.conf out of the way xnetview seems to be able to locate the xnetview's server. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 07:27:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA19112 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:27:03 -0800 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA19031 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:25:19 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA08102 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:14:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199511091514.AA08102@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:14:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: Michael Smith "Re: Xing's xnetview" (Nov 9, 14:56) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Michael Smith Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 9, 14:56, Michael Smith wrote: } Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview } Stefan Esser stands accused of saying: } > } ./xnetview: using incompatible library '/usr/lib/libc.so.4' } > } Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 } > } resolv+: "bind" is an invalid keyword } > } resolv+: "hosts" is an invalid keyword } > } Xnetview v1.0b2.0 (Linux) (c) 1993-1994 Xing Technology. } > } > Just move /etc/host.conf out of the way. } > Linux seems to expect some other contents in this file ... } } What happens if you put an empty file in /compat/linux/etc/host.conf? Sorry, doesn't help ... resolv+: "bind" is an invalid keyword resolv+: "hosts" is an invalid keyword resolv+: "nis" is an invalid keyword (I've got them all in my /etc/host.conf) Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 08:03:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA20540 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:03:05 -0800 Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA20529 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:02:59 -0800 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA18797; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:09:45 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:09:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199511091609.LAA18797@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: piero@strider.ibenet.it From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hello. > >Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard (Thu Nov 9 03:10:51 1995): >> Minix != FreeBSD just as Xenix != FreeBSD and you hardly see us giving >> pointers to Xenix. I will neither approve it nor go to any special >> trouble to mention it in the FAQ.. Not to be heartless, I just don't >> see the need or relevance. > >Ok. I'm Joe User a f@#$ing newbie, I only have a f#$%ing 286 so I >write to freebsd-questions and ask'em "Ho guys what kind of UNIX >*can* I run on my wonderful 286", and get no answer. > >When I buy a P100 I will go *for sure* to the linux mailing lists >where people is so kind to give advise to me, poor owner of a 286. They're nice people but their O/S isn't as good. If you're using a '286 you're not poor, you're impoverished (as a '386 is about $40.). Give Bill and Hillary a call. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 08:13:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA21019 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:13:56 -0800 Received: from gw.muc.ditec.de (gw.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA21009 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:13:49 -0800 Received: from tartufo.muc.ditec.de (tartufo.muc.ditec.de [134.98.18.2]) by gw.muc.ditec.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA06737; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:12:33 +0100 Received: by tartufo.muc.ditec.de (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Thu, 9 Nov 95 17:12 MET Message-Id: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 17:12 MET From: me@tartufo.muc.ditec.de (Michael Elbel) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <199511070653.HAA04130@allegro.lemis.de> <168.815738956@time.cdrom.com> Reply-To: me@freebsd.org X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >> OK, that would make a difference. On the version I have, it doesn't >> get fired up until you commit yourself. If you could use it almost >> any time before, that would be great. >Well, I have to say that it's still sort of "post committal" since I >need to know that there's even something on the root file system >before I send the shell leaping off into space, chrooted to it (I >can't leave it lying around with the floppy as its root or I'd never >be able to use the floppy again). I dont understand this. I thought root is an MFS at that stage. What prevents you from removing the floppy if the fs is in memory, only loaded as part of the kernel off that disk. Have I overlooked something? Michael -- Michael Elbel, DITEC, Muenchen, Germany - me@muc.ditec.de Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 08:20:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA21317 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:20:15 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA21308 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:20:07 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA22445; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:19:03 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511091619.KAA22445@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet!! I found the problem! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:19:02 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <29977.815899604@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 8, 95 10:46:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > This was "painfully obvious" when I looked at it: > > > > anacreon# ls -l /usr/bin/telnet > > -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 77824 Nov 4 18:52 /usr/bin/telnet > > anacreon# cd /usr/lib > > anacreon# ls -l libtel* > > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 39832 Nov 4 18:52 libtelnet.a > > -r--r--r-- 1 2035 wheel 9173 Jan 25 1995 libtelnet.so.2.0 > > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 43846 Nov 4 18:52 libtelnet_p.a > > But.. I don't understand how you have a `libtelnet.so.2.0' dated Jan > 25 on a fresh 2.1.0-950411-SNAP installation? > > Also, it makes no sense that telnet should die after loading the des > distribution - the des distribution *does not contain* telnet or > libtelnet! Check and see for yourself: > > jkh@freefall-> tar tvzf des.aa > drwxr-xr-x root/wheel 0 Nov 4 17:38 1995 ./ > drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 bin/ > -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 118784 Nov 4 16:52 1995 bin/ed > -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 bin/red link to bin/ed > drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 sbin/ > -r-x------ bin/bin 147456 Nov 4 16:52 1995 sbin/init > drwxr-xr-x root/wheel 0 Nov 4 17:38 1995 usr/ > drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/bin/ > -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 16384 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/bin/bdes > drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/ > -r--r--r-- bin/bin 5456 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcipher.a > -r--r--r-- bin/bin 9549 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcipher.so.2.0 > -r--r--r-- bin/bin 6084 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libdescrypt.a > -r--r--r-- bin/bin 7258 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libdescrypt_p.a > -r--r--r-- bin/bin 13637 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libdescrypt.so.2.0 > lrwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcrypt.so.2.0 -> libdescrypt.so.2.0 > lrwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcrypt.a -> libdescrypt.a > lrwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/lib/libcrypt_p.a -> libdescrypt_p.a > drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 17:38 1995 usr/share/ > drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 17:38 1995 usr/share/man/ > drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/share/man/man1/ > -r--r--r-- bin/bin 4413 Nov 4 16:52 1995 usr/share/man/man1/bdes.1.gz Hmm. Well that's all well and good except that I would expect that libtelnet would be in krb. Now, when I install systems, I _always_ wipe them squeaky clean, and so I have a hard time understanding where a Jan 25 dated binary would be coming from. Particularly since the several systems I checked were NOT upgraded, but total fresh installs on either new or low-level formatted disks.... Unless.... it's in the distribution. Dist Check. anacreon# cat krb* | gunzip | tar tvf - drwxr-xr-x root/wheel 0 Nov 4 19:38 1995 ./ .... -r--r--r-- bin/bin 39832 Nov 4 18:52 1995 usr/lib/libtelnet.a -r--r--r-- bin/bin 43846 Nov 4 18:52 1995 usr/lib/libtelnet_p.a -r--r--r-- bin/bin 46141 Nov 4 18:52 1995 usr/lib/libtelnet.so.2.0 -r--r--r-- bin/bin 22876 Nov 4 19:03 1995 usr/lib/libdes.a -r--r--r-- bin/bin 25842 Nov 4 19:03 1995 usr/lib/libdes_p.a -r--r--r-- bin/bin 27134 Nov 4 19:03 1995 usr/lib/libdes.so.2.0 .... That looks cool. Matter of fact, that looks great :-) anacreon# cat bin.* | gunzip | tar tvf - .... -r--r--r-- bin/bin 2292 Nov 4 18:37 1995 usr/lib/libtelnet.a -r--r--r-- bin/bin 8818 Nov 4 18:37 1995 usr/lib/libtelnet.so.2.0 .... Odd, that looks cool too. So where is this coming from? Oops. I think I know. anacreon# gunzip < compat20.tgz | tar tvf - .... -r--r--r-- jkh/wheel 9173 Jan 25 12:54 1995 usr/lib/libtelnet.so.2.0 .... And somebody installs this AFTER des and krb. So we have shared library collisions. From a quick re-examination of bin.*, it would appear that there is a mix of *.2.0, *.2.1, *.2.2, and *.3.0... is this good? Well at least it gives us a suggested workaround: don't install compat libraries. (That sucks but then I'm pretty religious about recompiling things, I just put in the compat stuff to ease transitions and make sure I can interoperate with other 2.0R systems, in my AMD-oriented environment - else things break). ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 08:21:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA21401 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:21:36 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA21395 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:21:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00429; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:21:29 -0800 To: me@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 17:12:00 +0700." Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 08:21:28 -0800 Message-ID: <427.815934088@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I dont understand this. I thought root is an MFS at that stage. What > prevents you from removing the floppy if the fs is in memory, only > loaded as part of the kernel off that disk. I don't understand it either. :-) All I know is that if I fork a shell before I chroot to /mnt (the hard disk), I can never use the floppy again.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 08:26:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA21663 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:26:52 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA21652 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:26:45 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00462; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:25:25 -0800 To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet!! I found the problem! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 10:19:02 CST." <199511091619.KAA22445@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 08:25:25 -0800 Message-ID: <460.815934325@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Odd, that looks cool too. So where is this coming from? > > Oops. I think I know. > > anacreon# gunzip < compat20.tgz | tar tvf - > .... > -r--r--r-- jkh/wheel 9173 Jan 25 12:54 1995 usr/lib/libtelnet.so.2.0 Yeah, about 4 of us came simultaneously to this conclusion.. :-( The compat20 dist is broken, hosed, don't work. I'm going to re-roll it for final 2.1 dist. In the meantime, folks, please don't install the 2.0 compat dist! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 08:53:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA23157 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:53:35 -0800 Received: from blatz.cs.uwm.edu (blatz.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.2.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA23151 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:53:31 -0800 Received: (from davida@localhost) by blatz.cs.uwm.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA15435 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:53:29 -0600 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:53:29 -0600 From: "Professor G. Davida" Message-Id: <199511091653.KAA15435@blatz.cs.uwm.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is there a version of FreeBSD for the Power PC Mac? Thanks From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:02:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA23636 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:02:35 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA23628 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:02:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA00644 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:02:26 -0800 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: compat20 dist in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 09:02:26 -0800 Message-ID: <642.815936546@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've re-rolled it with the proper permissions and minus the fatal libtelnet.so.2.0 library. Sincere apologies to all those who fell victim to its poisonous bite! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:06:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA23808 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:06:18 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA23759 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:04:50 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA18925; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:03:44 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA09270; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:16:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199511091716.LAA09270@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 16:36:53 CST." <199511082236.QAA01253@jake.lodgenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:16:15 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Stefan Esser writes: >>On Nov 8, 13:14, "Eric L. Hernes" wrote: >> >>Well, I tried to get the -current PCI probe code into 2.1R >>many weeks ago, but it was decided, it was to dangerous with >>the release expected a few days later ... :) >> >>I really would like to know, whether it works with the most >>recent SNAP, or only with -current ... >> here's the probes from the latest snap and -current: 2.1.0-951104-SNAP: npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface sb0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa sb0: pcibus_setup(1): mode1res=0x8000000c (0x80000000), mode2res=0x0c (0x0e) BIOS Geometries: 0:037f0e3e 0..895=896 cylinders, 0..14=15 heads, 1..62=62 sectors 1:03d90b23 0..985=986 cylinders, 0..11=12 heads, 1..35=35 sectors 0 accounted for wd0s1: type 0xa5, start 62, end = 613799, size 613738 : OK wd1s1: type 0xa5, start 35, end = 415379, size 415345 : OK -current: npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface sb0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa sb0: imasks: bio c0004040, tty c0031212, net c0031212 pcibus_setup(1): mode 1 addr port (0x0cf8) is 0x00000000 pcibus_setup(1a): mode1res=0x00000000 (0x80000000) pcibus_setup(1b): mode1res=0x80000000 (0xff000001) pcibus_check: device 0 is there (id=20000e11) Probing for devices on the PCI bus: configuration mode 1 allows 32 devices. pci0:0: Compaq, device=0x2000, class=old (misc) [no driver assigned] map(10): mem32(1aa590) map(14): mem32(1aa590) map(18): mem32(1aa590) map(1c): mem32(1aa590) map(20): io(20000e10) vga0 rev 142 int a irq 11 on pci0:10 mapreg[10] type=0 addr=40000000 size=1000000. pci0:11: AMD, device=0x2000, class=network (ethernet) [no driver assigned] pci0:15: Compaq, device=0x0002, class=bridge (isa) [no driver assigned] pci0: uses 16777216 bytes of memory from 40000000 upto 40ffffff. wd0s1: type 0xa5, start 62, end = 613799, size 613738 : OK on the lnc0 card: with device lnc0 at isa? port 0x7000 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr in the config file, the card is recognized as being on the VL-bus, and the ifconfig returns `Initialisation failed' >>Regards, STefan >> >> >>-- >> Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 > 4706021 >> Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 >> ============================================================================ >= >>= >> http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se > thanks, eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:16:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA24217 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:16:44 -0800 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA24185 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:16:22 -0800 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA27823; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:10:30 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199511091710.SAA27823@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:10:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: piero@strider.ibenet.it, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511091609.LAA18797@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Nov 9, 95 11:09:45 am Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-NCC-RegID: it.ibenet X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 519 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Sorry, today I'm not in the best mood. Quoting from dennis (Thu Nov 9 17:09:45 1995): > They're nice people but their O/S isn't as good. If you're using a '286 you're > not poor, you're impoverished (as a '386 is about $40.). Give Bill and > Hillary a call. Were I American, I would. Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:25:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA24645 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:25:18 -0800 Received: from star.cirrus.com (cirrus.com [141.131.7.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA24633 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:25:10 -0800 Received: from sunstorm.corp.cirrus.com (sunstorm.corp.cirrus.com [141.131.8.51]) by star.cirrus.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA14506; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:25:06 -0800 Received: from rsa.rsa.cirrus.com by sunstorm.corp.cirrus.com with SMTP id AA19184 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:25:00 -0800 Received: from rsamail (rsamail.rsa.cirrus.com) by rsa.rsa.cirrus.com with SMTP id AA07147 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:25:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199511091725.AA07147@rsa.rsa.cirrus.com> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 9-Nov-1995 12:26:14 -0500; at rsamail.rsa.pcsi.cirrus From: BILLYC@rsa.cirrus.com (Chen Billy) To: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX Date: 09 Nov 95 12:26:05 EST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > They're nice people but their O/S isn't as good. If you're using a '286 you're ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ My two questions are 1. Is Jordon also handle Public Relationship ? 2. What bases of your define is a good O/S ? a. filesystem(s) ? b. networking throughput (w/ same hardware) ? c. internal processor handling ? e. hardware resource sharing ? f. hardward driver capablity ? g. software porting ? h. user interface/friendly ? i. how many software availability ? j. community support ? k. percentage of user of 32 bits OS ? l. contribution befoer ? m. capablity now ? n. server / client type of applications ? . . . thanks billy From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:34:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA25101 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:34:29 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA25096 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:34:26 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA03022; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:24:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199511091824.KAA03022@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:16:15 CST." <199511091716.LAA09270@jake.lodgenet.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 10:24:46 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>Stefan Esser writes: > >with > device lnc0 at isa? port 0x7000 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr > >in the config file, the card is recognized as being on >the VL-bus, and the ifconfig returns `Initialisation failed' This is most likely because the PCI probe occurs after the ISA one so the card is not properly setup. You might try modifying autoconf.c to call pci_configure before isa_configure. Either that or you could write a PCI probe/attach routine that calls into the isa lnc driver. Take a look at sys/pci/aic7870.c for an idea on how to do this. >>>Regards, STefan >>>-- >>> Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 >> 4706021 >>> Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 >>> =========================================================================== >= >>= >>>= >>> http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se >> > >thanks, >eric. >-- >erich@lodgenet.com >erich@rrnet.com > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:38:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA25418 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:38:13 -0800 Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA25409 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:38:10 -0800 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA19071; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:50:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:50:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199511091750.MAA19071@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: piero@strider.ibenet.it From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hello. > >Sorry, today I'm not in the best mood. > >Quoting from dennis (Thu Nov 9 17:09:45 1995): >> They're nice people but their O/S isn't as good. If you're using a '286 you're >> not poor, you're impoverished (as a '386 is about $40.). Give Bill and >> Hillary a call. > >Were I American, I would. Call them anyway....ever hear of foreign aid?....there's an election coming up and theres a large Italian voter population here..... db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:38:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA25430 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:38:17 -0800 Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA25413 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:38:11 -0800 Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tDavN-0009Z8C; Thu, 9 Nov 95 09:38 PST Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:38:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter cc: piero@strider.ibenet.it, FreeBSD-hackers Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX In-Reply-To: <199511091212.HAA18874@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard (Thu Nov 9 03:10:51 1995): > > > Minix != FreeBSD just as Xenix != FreeBSD and you hardly see us giving > > > pointers to Xenix. I will neither approve it nor go to any special > > > trouble to mention it in the FAQ.. Not to be heartless, I just don't > > > see the need or relevance. > > Quoting from Piero Serini > > > > Ok. I'm Joe User a f@#$ing newbie, I only have a f#$%ing 286 so I > > write to freebsd-questions and ask'em "Ho guys what kind of UNIX > > *can* I run on my wonderful 286", and get no answer. > > > > When I buy a P100 I will go *for sure* to the linux mailing lists > > where people is so kind to give advise to me, poor owner of a 286. > > > > Sorry Jordan, this time you're wrong, IMHO. > > Damn right. Lets lose the not invented here syndrome and be kind > do other net citizens. Put a couple of paragraphs in the FAQ > (and maybe on the web site...). > > It costs very little to do others some good here. > Well, thanks for posting that announcement to the hackers list, at least. Not only is there an 8088/286 version, but there are also older versions for Amiga, Atari ST, Mac, and SPARC, some of which (for example a Mac Plus or stock Amiga 500) don't have an MMU, and so couldn't run NetBSD or Linux/68k, for the same reason a 286 can't run FreeBSD. Also, of course MINIX isn't "as good" as FreeBSD in the sense that it's not full enough or compatible enough to run monster programs like X11R6 and GCC, but that wasn't the original intention. It was designed to be a tiny, UNIX System 7 compatible, TEACHING OS that any one person could understand large portions of the code with a minimum of effort. And I think, for that reason, it would be a cool OS to use, to learn about OS concepts, if you're "not ready" to start hacking on the FreeBSD kernel... ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:43:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA25899 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:43:45 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA25886 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:43:41 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA00790; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:42:27 -0800 To: piero@strider.ibenet.it cc: dennis@etinc.com (dennis), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 18:10:29 +0100." <199511091710.SAA27823@strider.ibenet.it> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 09:42:27 -0800 Message-ID: <788.815938947@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Were I American, I would. Not a problem! Even better, in fact! Just apply for foreign aid! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:47:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA26157 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:47:06 -0800 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA26144 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:46:53 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA10284 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:36:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199511091736.AA10284@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:36:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Eric L. Hernes" "Re: compaq's builtin pci bus" (Nov 9, 11:16) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Eric L. Hernes" Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 9, 11:16, "Eric L. Hernes" wrote: } Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus } here's the probes from the latest snap and -current: } } 2.1.0-951104-SNAP: } } npx0 on motherboard } npx0: INT 16 interface } sb0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa } sb0: } pcibus_setup(1): mode1res=0x8000000c (0x80000000), mode2res=0x0c (0x0e) O well, I don't believe it: They got ONE thing right and several others wrong, and that combination makes the code fail, since it assumes they did everything wrong :-) What happens is, that writing a byte to the config address register is not ignored, the value is merged into the DWORD register at that address instead, in violation of an explicit PCI requirement. But then they got that DWORD register implemented right in THAT chip (as opposed to others they make), and make the two (reserved) low order bits read back as '0'. Well, I know how to work around this, but I also know what David would tell if I asked him to apply some patch to the probe code at this time :) (And rightly so!) } -current: } npx0 on motherboard } npx0: INT 16 interface } sb0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa } sb0: } imasks: bio c0004040, tty c0031212, net c0031212 } pcibus_setup(1): mode 1 addr port (0x0cf8) is 0x00000000 } pcibus_setup(1a): mode1res=0x00000000 (0x80000000) } pcibus_setup(1b): mode1res=0x80000000 (0xff000001) } pcibus_check: device 0 is there (id=20000e11) } Probing for devices on the PCI bus: } configuration mode 1 allows 32 devices. } pci0:0: Compaq, device=0x2000, class=old (misc) [no driver assigned] Yes, I expected the -current PCI code to get this right, and I really had preferred if this rewritten code had become part of 2.1R, instead of my continued attempts to fix the old code ... If you want to run 2.1R on that system, then you'll need to build a kernel with "/sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c" from -current, or you can apply the following patch: Index: /sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c,v retrieving revision 1.8.4.5 diff -C2 -r1.8.4.5 pcibus.c *** pcibus.c 1995/11/03 08:07:20 1.8.4.5 --- pcibus.c 1995/11/09 17:33:31 *************** *** 205,210 **** */ ! if ((mode1res != CONF1_ENABLE_CHK) ! && (mode1res != CONF1_ENABLE_CHK + CONF2_ENABLE_CHK) && (mode2res != CONF2_ENABLE_CHK)) { return; --- 205,209 ---- */ ! if (((mode1res & ~CONF2_ENABLE_CHK) != CONF1_ENABLE_CHK) && (mode2res != CONF2_ENABLE_CHK)) { return; Sorry for the inconvenience ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 09:53:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA26531 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:53:00 -0800 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA26497 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:52:43 -0800 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA27996; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:47:22 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199511091747.SAA27996@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:47:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: piero@strider.ibenet.it, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <788.815938947@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 9, 95 09:42:27 am Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-NCC-RegID: it.ibenet X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 543 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard (Thu Nov 9 18:42:27 1995): > > Were I American, I would. > > Not a problem! Even better, in fact! Just apply for foreign aid! :-) Ok Ok I deserved it. Back to serious problems, Ok? :) (I still think I can always find something to do with a 286, and no I'll not shoot it ;-) Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:00:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA27205 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:00:46 -0800 Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27184 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:00:35 -0800 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA19171; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:13:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:13:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199511091813.NAA19171@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: piero@strider.ibenet.it From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hello. > >Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard (Thu Nov 9 18:42:27 1995): >> > Were I American, I would. >> >> Not a problem! Even better, in fact! Just apply for foreign aid! :-) > >Ok Ok I deserved it. Back to serious problems, Ok? :) > >(I still think I can always find something to do with a 286, and no >I'll not shoot it ;-) > I've got a '286 MB in the back room that I'll gladly trade for a nice bottle of chianti Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:08:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA27830 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:08:16 -0800 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27815 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:08:06 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.1/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id KAA03838 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:07:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29219; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:00:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091800.LAA29219@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: install problem To: gurney_j@efn.org Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:00:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Nov 8, 95 10:50:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > well... it looks like to get a filesystem it has to be bigger than 1M... > not equal... if you try to make a partion of 2048 sectors it comes back > with a "The minimum filesystem size is 1MB", if you up it to 2049 then it > will work fine... also... if you put in 1M it will fail (because it > fails on 2048 I assume)... hope this helps... TTYL.. The newfs assumes the cylinder size... override the assumption, and you can reduce the size of the overhea pieces and thus the size of the FS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:09:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA27960 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:09:38 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27821 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:08:09 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA19800; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:07:01 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14247; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:19:41 -0600 Message-Id: <199511091819.MAA14247@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 18:36:49 +0100." <199511091736.AA10284@Sysiphos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:19:40 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser writes: >On Nov 9, 11:16, "Eric L. Hernes" wrote: >} Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus > >If you want to run 2.1R on that system, then you'll >need to build a kernel with "/sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c" >from -current, or you can apply the following patch: > pcibus.c from -current works. > >Sorry for the inconvenience ... not at all, thanks for the help. > >Regards, STefan > >-- > Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 > Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 > ============================================================================= >= > http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:11:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28127 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:11:28 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28115 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:11:23 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29238; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:06:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091806.LAA29238@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:06:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <6340.815906403@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Nov 9, 95 09:40:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 341 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What you really want of course is a "outside the cache" bzero and bcopy > function... Too bad the coherency modely won't just let you mark the pages as non-cacheable, do the op, then mark them back. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:11:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28142 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:11:32 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28010 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:10:07 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA19820; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:08:43 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14282; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:21:23 -0600 Message-Id: <199511091821.MAA14282@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compaq's builtin pci bus In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 10:24:46 PST." <199511091824.KAA03022@aslan.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:21:23 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Justin T. Gibbs" writes: >>>Stefan Esser writes: >> >>with >> device lnc0 at isa? port 0x7000 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr >> >>in the config file, the card is recognized as being on >>the VL-bus, and the ifconfig returns `Initialisation failed' > >This is most likely because the PCI probe occurs after the ISA one so the >card is not properly setup. You might try modifying autoconf.c to call >pci_configure before isa_configure. Either that or you could write a PCI >probe/attach routine that calls into the isa lnc driver. Take a look at >sys/pci/aic7870.c for an idea on how to do this. pci_configure() before isa_configure() didn't work, I'll try stubbing the lnc_{probe,attach} into a pci driver... If I can figure out pci drivers ;-). > >-- >Justin T. Gibbs >=========================================== > Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM > FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations >=========================================== thanks, eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:14:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28324 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:14:32 -0800 Received: from seattle.polstra.com (seattle.polstra.com [198.211.214.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA28316 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:14:21 -0800 Received: by seattle.polstra.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0tDbUG-000072C; Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:14 PST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:14 PST From: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: gdb Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <9511091347.AA22411@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I was just noticing the announcement about the latest version of gdb > > being avilable, and it made me wonder howcome, when gdb is customized for > > so many differenct environments, how come they don't include stuff so > > that it would work out of the box on FreeBSD? > > probably because I never sent in any patches. One thing I noticed was > that there's now a freebsd target in config.guess, but it doesn't work > because there isn't any freebsd target in config.sub. This is trivial to fix. > > A bigger problem is that gdb/solib.c doesn't compile for -current. I haven't > had time to do more than note this fact. What happens with 2.1 or earlier > versions I can't say. I only run -current. > > The code in bfd seems to be correctly done, at least it compiles with > FBSD specific stuff. The latest gdb release from the FSF was 4.15.1. Just before that came out, I had built 4.15 and tried it on my FreeBSD-2.0.5 system. That seemed to build and function OK. I did send them one small patch, just to get rid of a warning about PAGE_SIZE being redefined (in bfd/i386bsd.c). I don't know whether my patch made it into 4.15.1 or not. > > Couldn't someone who knows the reasons why, communicate them to Cygnus, > > and get us on their list of supported systems? > > I'll put this on my TODO list. I'm planning to port the newest gdb RSN. That would be great. I started to look at it, but I really don't have the time to devote to it right now. If you work on it, you should probably get the latest gdb snapshot from the Cygnus machine. They've rejiggered the configuration mechanism quite a bit, and lost FreeBSD support again. It looks pretty easy to put it back in, but again, I don't have time right now to figure out the details. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:17:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28528 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:17:04 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28515 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:16:54 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29248; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:08:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091808.LAA29248@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:08:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511090945.KAA26073@strider.ibenet.it> from "Piero Serini" at Nov 9, 95 10:45:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 603 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok. I'm Joe User a f@#$ing newbie, I only have a f#$%ing 286 so I > write to freebsd-questions and ask'em "Ho guys what kind of UNIX > *can* I run on my wonderful 286", and get no answer. > > When I buy a P100 I will go *for sure* to the linux mailing lists > where people is so kind to give advise to me, poor owner of a 286. > > Sorry Jordan, this time you're wrong, IMHO. Ah, what do you know, you own a f#$%ing 286. Or is that a f@#$ing 286? 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:17:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28544 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:17:08 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28522 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:16:58 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29260; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:11:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091811.LAA29260@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:11:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: piero@strider.ibenet.it, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511091212.HAA18874@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Nov 9, 95 07:12:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 361 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (who still has a real working copy of Xenix-86 for the 8086/8088 > environment and still has people trying to buy it from him.) I have one of those. That was a great little system. No, I won't sell mine either. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:19:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28752 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:19:50 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28745 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:19:46 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29272; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:15:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091815.LAA29272@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PPC Mac To: davida@blatz.cs.uwm.edu (Professor G. Davida) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:15:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511091653.KAA15435@blatz.cs.uwm.edu> from "Professor G. Davida" at Nov 9, 95 10:53:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 422 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Is there a version of FreeBSD for the Power PC Mac? No. But if you could pry hardware documentation from Apple's cold, dead fingers there would be. The Linux PPC effort has moved completely away from the Mac now, according to a recent posting by members of the porting team. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:25:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA29114 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:25:04 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29060 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:24:51 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29297; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:20:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091820.LAA29297@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: BILLYC@rsa.cirrus.com (Chen Billy) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:20:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511091725.AA07147@rsa.rsa.cirrus.com> from "Chen Billy" at Nov 9, 95 12:26:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 486 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > My two questions are > > 1. Is Jordon also handle Public Relationship ? Jordan is moderator of the announce news group. > 2. What bases of your define is a good O/S ? [ ... ] > > They're nice people but their O/S isn't as good. > ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ NOTE:--------------------------^^ Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:46:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA00640 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:46:56 -0800 Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (bakul@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00635 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:46:54 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id KAA25055; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:45:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199511091845.KAA25055@netcom22.netcom.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 95 09:42:27 PST." <788.815938947@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 10:45:50 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Were I American, I would. > Not a problem! Even better, in fact! Just apply for foreign aid! :-) Amerrika! Kan't live with it; cain't live without it. Getting back to the original subject, if it were upto me, I would've just posted the announcement as a courtesy to another Unixoid-OS group and a fellow OS hacker who *has* contributed a lot to the computer industry (directly and indirectly -- didn't Torvalds embark on Linux when he wanted to go beyond what Minix did?). May be we can even steal some nice ideas from Minix. It's been known to happen. Of course, later on I would've sent a FreeBSD announcement to the minix group -- a bit of *friendly* rivalry is so much more fun :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 10:50:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA00844 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:50:42 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00749 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:48:18 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29465; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:43:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091843.LAA29465@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: config, other kernel build tools To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:43:10 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 391 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? As it is, I have to clobber my existing config program to build a kernel in an alternate source tree. Not suprisingly, I'm not real keen on doing this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 11:11:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA01865 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:11:38 -0800 Received: from star.cirrus.com (cirrus.com [141.131.7.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA01858 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:11:34 -0800 Received: from sunstorm.corp.cirrus.com (sunstorm.corp.cirrus.com [141.131.8.51]) by star.cirrus.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA03937; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:11:28 -0800 Received: from rsa.rsa.cirrus.com by sunstorm.corp.cirrus.com with SMTP id AA03430 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:11:24 -0800 Received: from rsamail (rsamail.rsa.cirrus.com) by rsa.rsa.cirrus.com with SMTP id AA07324 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:12:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199511091912.AA07324@rsa.rsa.cirrus.com> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 9-Nov-1995 14:12:40 -0500; at rsamail.rsa.pcsi.cirrus From: BILLYC@rsa.cirrus.com (Chen Billy) To: terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX Date: 09 Nov 95 14:12:33 EST Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi > > My two questions are > > > > 1. Is Jordon also handle Public Relationship ? ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^xxx a) Sorry Jordan b) in FreeBSD doc [...] 23.4. Who is responsible for what President Jordan K. Hubbard [...] Public Relations ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jordan Hubbard [...] Is this means only applied to FreeBSD core term ? > > Jordan is moderator of the announce news group. > > 2. What bases of your define is a good O/S ? > [ ... ] > > > They're nice people but their O/S isn't as good. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ > NOTE:--------------------------^^ Good O/S based on comparing to FreeBSD on the opinions in your posting, Correct? ( Just a question ) > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. I saw lots of your posting. I love it, espically in the area of boot/installation ...etc. thanks. Regards, billy From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 11:21:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA02224 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:21:05 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA02219 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:21:03 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA04909; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:16:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199511092016.MAA04909@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:43:10 MST." <199511091843.LAA29465@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:16:41 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere >instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? I think it should go away and we're taking steps to make that happen, so why force the move now? >As it is, I have to clobber my existing config program to build a >kernel in an alternate source tree. ?? Doesn't that alternate source tree contain an "arch"/conf directory? The compile area is created relative to that directory. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 11:46:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA03135 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:46:03 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com ([131.124.4.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03130 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:46:01 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA05937; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:44:39 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA27509; Thu, 9 Nov 95 13:44:31 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9511091944.AA27509@olympus> Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:44:30 -0600 (CST) Cc: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511091456.OAA10050@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 9, 95 02:56:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 837 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Stefan Esser stands accused of saying: > > } ./xnetview: using incompatible library '/usr/lib/libc.so.4' > > } Desire minor version >= 6 and found 5 > > } resolv+: "bind" is an invalid keyword > > } resolv+: "hosts" is an invalid keyword > > } Xnetview v1.0b2.0 (Linux) (c) 1993-1994 Xing Technology. > > > > Just move /etc/host.conf out of the way. > > Linux seems to expect some other contents in this file ... > > What happens if you put an empty file in /compat/linux/etc/host.conf? > Thanks to the new ext2fs in current, I can tell you that the linux host.conf says order hosts, bind multi on -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner - faulkner@isd.tandem.com - http://cactus.org/~faulkner _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 11:46:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA03164 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:46:18 -0800 Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (news@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03152 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:46:13 -0800 Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (sendmail) id DAA27769 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 03:45:52 +0800 (WST) Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 10 Nov 1995 03:45:48 +0800 From: peter@haywire.dialix.com (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <47tlpc$r3k$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: , <199511080128.SAA18699@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Timing bug with Netscape 2.0b2 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) writes: >> Is this another FreeBSD-emulating-BSDI bug with Netscape 2.0b2: >> >> Any graphic that is supposed to be updated regularly (blinking cursor, >> animated Netscape icon, or blinking tags in text) will not update when I >> run Netscape 2.0b2 in FreeBSD... UNLESS either: >> >> 1) The mouse is in motion (and then it updates slowly) OR >> 2) There is network activity (Netscape is currently downloading a page). >> >> I'm sure this is affecting everyone, right? >I believe this is another select() timeout/itimer interaction. >Has anyone looked at BSDI's default siginterrupt/syscall restart >options since the last time we talked about this? I've been examinging some rather large ktrace dumps. The BSD version of netscape 2.0b2 does not use the itimer system calls. :-( It's actually blocking inside a select without a timeout: [ ..... 5 Megs of ktrace/kdump deleted ..... ] 279 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 279 netscape.bin CALL select(0xd,0xefbfc1c8,0xefbfc1a8,0xefbfc188,0xefbfc08c) 279 netscape.bin RET select 0 279 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfbfe8,0) 279 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 279 netscape.bin CALL sigprocmask(0x1,0) 279 netscape.bin RET sigprocmask 0 279 netscape.bin CALL sigprocmask(0x3,0) 279 netscape.bin RET sigprocmask 0 279 netscape.bin CALL select(0xd,0x50011f5c,0,0x50011f1c,0) ^^^ Note that no timeout is being selected. Also, it does not siginterrupt, and does not call any itimer functions. This looks like a netscape programming error. -Peter > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 11:56:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA03740 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:56:37 -0800 Received: from ns0.netcraft.co.uk (ns0.netcraft.co.uk [194.72.238.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03725 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:56:30 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by ns0.netcraft.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA00983 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:55:50 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199511091955.TAA00983@ns0.netcraft.co.uk> Subject: samba To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:55:50 +0000 (GMT) Reply-to: paul@netcraft.co.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 544 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone know why I can't get any clients authorised with samba, I always get the following when I use smbclient and winfg clients give invalid password errors too. SMBtcon failed. ERRSRV - ERRbadpw (Bad password - name/password pair in a Tree C onnect or Session Setup are invalid.) Perhaps you are using the wrong sharename, username or password? Some servers insist that these be in uppercase -- Paul Richards, Netcraft Ltd. Internet: paul@netcraft.co.uk, http://www.netcraft.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1225 447500 (work) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 12:01:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA04048 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:01:16 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04026 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:01:04 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA01736; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:56:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091956.MAA01736@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:56:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511092016.MAA04909@aslan.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Nov 9, 95 12:16:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1369 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere > >instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? > > I think it should go away and we're taking steps to make that happen, > so why force the move now? Force? No one is forcing anything... I think the code should be in the right location so I can build a -current kernel on a -stable machine without sacraficing my ability to build a -stable kernel on the same -stable machine. > >As it is, I have to clobber my existing config program to build a > >kernel in an alternate source tree. > > ?? Doesn't that alternate source tree contain an "arch"/conf directory? > The compile area is created relative to that directory. My existing config *program*, not my existing *config*. /usr/sbin/config is *not* created relative to that directory. I *don't* want to toast my existing /usr/sbin/config; I like it, it is my friend, it serves me well. What I'd really like is an incremental step in Richard's planned mega-makefile patch direction. Putting the tools that are only good for building kernels in with the kernel code that is to be built is a good first step. It's not like the boot code, etc. isn't already in the kernel tree and isn't really kernel code proper. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 12:02:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA04114 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:02:01 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04107 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:01:55 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id PAA10827; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:03:57 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA13497; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:03:54 +0500 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:03:54 +0500 Message-Id: <9511092003.AA13497.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Mailing list software X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 249 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I know this is a silly question, BUT, I have been trying to install a mail list server package of unknown origins and, well, I give up. Where, if I may, can I get the mailing list server software that 'freebsd-hackers@freebsd,org` uses ???? Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 12:08:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA04413 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:08:30 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04407 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:08:23 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA01759; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:00:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511092000.NAA01759@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: BILLYC@rsa.cirrus.com (Chen Billy) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:00:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511091912.AA07324@rsa.rsa.cirrus.com> from "Chen Billy" at Nov 9, 95 02:12:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 887 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ ... questions about the FreeBSD core group ... ] These would be better addressed by the FreeBSD core group memebers. > > > 2. What bases of your define is a good O/S ? > > [ ... ] > > > > They're nice people but their O/S isn't as good. > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ > > NOTE:--------------------------^^ > > Good O/S based on comparing to FreeBSD on the opinions in your > posting, Correct? ( Just a question ) His opinion, his posting. The point I was making is that "as" means that he wasn't necessarily attacking Minix as "no good". That's what the question implied he had said. > I saw lots of your posting. I love it, espically in the area of > boot/installation ...etc. thanks. Thanks. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 12:24:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA05068 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:24:06 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA05062 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:24:02 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA06512; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:22:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199511092122.NAA06512@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs), current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:56:21 MST." <199511091956.MAA01736@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 13:22:04 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I think the code should be in the right location so I can build a >-current kernel on a -stable machine without sacraficing my ability >to build a -stable kernel on the same -stable machine. Its not where the code is, but where it is installed that you are complaining about. Just moving the code wouldn't be enough to fix your problem. Config would not be found in the standard path in this scenario as well. >> >As it is, I have to clobber my existing config program to build a >> >kernel in an alternate source tree. >> >> ?? Doesn't that alternate source tree contain an "arch"/conf directory? >> The compile area is created relative to that directory. > >My existing config *program*, not my existing *config*. Sorry, mis-read that. >/usr/sbin/config is *not* created relative to that directory. > >I *don't* want to toast my existing /usr/sbin/config; I like it, it >is my friend, it serves me well. Than change DESTDIR in your alternate source tree before you do the install. :) >What I'd really like is an incremental step in Richard's planned >mega-makefile patch direction. Putting the tools that are only good >for building kernels in with the kernel code that is to be built is >a good first step. So you advocate is gets installed into the conf dir? Ugh. >It's not like the boot code, etc. isn't already in the kernel tree >and isn't really kernel code proper. The main reason we want to do away with config is that it just isn't flexible enough and we have to hack it all of the time. If config wasn't such a poor utility, there would be nothing wrong with having it in /usr/sbin since it would only change once in a blue moon. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 12:39:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA05691 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:39:53 -0800 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA05583 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:36:36 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA11157 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:32:35 +0100 Message-Id: <199511092032.AA11157@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:32:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) "Re: Xing's xnetview" (Nov 9, 13:44) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 9, 13:44, Boyd Faulkner wrote: } Subject: Re: Xing's xnetview } Thanks to the new ext2fs in current, I can tell you that the linux host.conf } says } } order hosts, bind } multi on Doesn't look unreasonable ... Hmmm ... Guess this is the format introduced in the resolv+ library for SunOS (at a time, when Sun still officially believed into NIS as the only way to find an IP address ... :) If this is in fact has been the base for the Linux resolver code, then the following environment variable may allow mapping the name of the host.conf file into the /compat/linux tree: RESOLV_HOST_CONF If set, it will override the default filename ("/etc/host.conf") for the resolv+ configuration file. (Tested this, and, well: It does work!!!) BTW: Any chance to get this into FreeBSD, as a valid alternate syntax ? Didn't check this, but AFAIK the resolv+ package had been released under a non-restrictive copyright. This is an excerpt from the man page of that enhanced resolver library: ---- 8< ---- cut here ---- 8< ---- cut here ---- 8< ---- cut here ---- 8< ---- The host.conf file should contain one configuration keyword per line, followed by appropriate configuration information. The keywords recognized are order , trim , multi , and nos- poof . Each keyword is described seperately below. order This keyword specifies how host lookups are to be per- formed. It should be followed by one or more lookup methods, seperated by commas. Valid methods are bind , hosts and nis . trim This keyword may be listed more than once. Each time it should be followed by a single domain name, with the leading dot. When set, the resolv+ library will automatically trim the given domain name from the end of any hostname resolved via DNS. This is intended for use with local hosts and domains. multi Valid values are on and off . If set to "on," the resolv+ library will return all valid addresses for a host that appears in the /etc/hosts file, instead of only the first. This is off by default, as it may cause a substantial performance loss at sites with large hosts files. nospoof Valid values are on and off . If set to "on," the resolv+ library will attempt to prevent hostname spoof- ing to enhance the security of rlogin and rsh. It works as follows: after performing a host address lookup, resolv+ will perform a hostname lookup for that address. If the two hostnames do not match, the query will fail. alert If this option is set to "on" and the nospoof option is also set, resolv+ will log a warning of the error via the syslog facility. [ ... ] AUTHOR The original BIND resolver library comes from the University of California at Berkeley's Computer Science Research Group. The resolv+ modifications were made (in roughly chronologi- cal order) by Bill Wisner, Patrick Gosling, Chris Metcalf, John DiMarco and J. Porter Clark. ---- 8< ---- cut here ---- 8< ---- cut here ---- 8< ---- cut here ---- 8< ---- Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 12:59:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA06549 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:59:41 -0800 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA06544 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:59:38 -0800 Received: from latte.eng.umd.edu (latte.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.15]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25828; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:59:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by latte.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id PAA11031; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:59:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:59:35 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@latte.eng.umd.edu To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Load/Store using FPU regs ... In-Reply-To: <199511090901.JAA09519@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Michael Smith wrote: > koshy@blr.novell.com stands accused of saying: > > >>> L20: fldl (%ebx) fstpl (%ecx) ... > > >>> > > >>> The resulting program copies data at about 60 Megabytes per > > >>> second. > > > > > > Using the FPU registers for memmove/bitblt operations was a technique > > I first saw on an i860. We used to do a series of reads into FPU regs > > Wheras those of us with 68K backgrounds are rolling in the aisles about > this one 8) > > (For the uninitiated; the 68K can read/write arbitrary groups of registers > and increment/decrement the source/destination pointers at the same time. > Depending on coding technique, you can read or write as much as 56 > bytes at a time; the big win (microcoded processor, remember) being no > instruction fetches between reads. It's a pity that Motorola have axed > it as a mainstram family 8( ) Axed the family? They have the newest child out now, 68060, I don't think they've axed the family. > > Anyway, enough from the nostalgia corner - I'm too young for this! > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ > ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Here's OJ's internet address in hex code: 00 2F 2F 2F 2F 5C 7F 2D 0D 15 1B 19 24 24 24 18 If you can't recall the translation, here it is: null character, slash, slash, slash, slash, backslash, rubout, dash, carriage return, negative acknowledgement, escape, end of media, dollar sign, dollar sign, dollar sign, cancel From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 13:32:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA07416 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:32:21 -0800 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA07408 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:32:12 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11771 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:38:57 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA29763 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:32:46 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA22880 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:00:46 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA01032 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:31:35 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199511091931.UAA01032@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: FYI: prices on Alpha mainboards To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:31:34 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3223 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk For those of you who have silently wondered (sorry about the Linux quote ;-): > After being bombarded with requests world wide for > pricing on Digital > Alpha motherboards I summit the following: > > DCG Computers motherboard price is as follows: > > Processor cache price SPECint92 > SPECfp92 > * 21066-233MHz 256kb-20ns $1395. 95 > 115 > ** 21064a-200MHz 512kb-15ns $1795. 125 > 160 > ** 21064a-200MHz 2mb-12ns $2070. 135 > 177 > ** 21064a-275MHz 2mb-12ns $3995. 189 > 264 > ** 21064a-300MHz 2mb-12ns $4445. 220 > 300 > > * The "noname" no upgrade path, 64-bit data path to cpu, > cache, & memory > > ** Code named the Cabriolet it has an upgrade path to > 233, 275, 300MHz > processors now runs with the MILO (mini loader) > Features: > Two memory banks, 4 slots each, x36, > 70ns with true parity > expandable simm type cache up to 8mb > supports a true 128-bit data path to > cpu, cache and memory > 4 PCI slots > 3 ISA (one ISA/PCI slot is shared) > Embedded IDE controller > 2 high speed serial ports > 1 bi-directional parallel port > Floppy controller > PS/2 style keyboard > PS/2 style mouse > Baby AT design and fits in most cases > Price includes a 300 watt 3.3v p.s. > > *********************** > > 21064-200MHz 512kb cache buyers!!!!!!! > > One word of warning, if you think your going to upgrade > to a faster > processor, purchase the 2mb cache so you don't throw > good money away > on the 512kb cache. The 512kb cache set is hard to come > by and may > take up to 2 or more weeks to get them in. > > All the above motherboards are designed by Digital and > carry a one year > return-to-factory warranty. The above boards also are > currently running > Linux. > > ***** FYI; to the faint hearted, Linux is not supported > by Digital on > these or any other motherboard the Digital manufactures. > However, there > are people that will remain nameless, that have ported > Linux over to the > noname and the Cabriolet. > > Therefore, enter into this with both eyes open! Support > is limited!!! > > Fully configured systems available with Linux installed. > International > shipping is available. > > Thank you, > > Steve > +1-603-421-1800 > > ________________________________________________________ > __________ > | Stephen Gaudet | Reseller of Digital Alpha > based systems | > | DCG Computers | and motherboards running NT, > OSF/1, VMS, | > | 35 Otterson Rd. | and Linux at affordable > prices. | > | Londonderry, NH 03053 > |------------------------------------------| > | ph:603-421-1800 fax:603-421-0911 > e-mail:sjg@tiac.net | > > -------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Now shipping 21164-300Mhz systems at 330 SPECint92 & 500 > SPECfp92 est. _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 14:02:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA08223 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:02:09 -0800 Received: from core.apana.org.au (root@core.apana.org.au [203.12.236.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA08218 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:02:02 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by core.apana.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA17176 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:01:38 +1100 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA08007; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:00:57 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511092200.OAA08007@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD To: mjb@siva.apana.org.au (Marcus Barczak) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:00:56 -0800 (PST) Cc: apana-lists-os-freebsd-hackers@apana.org.au In-Reply-To: <47s4mc$1v1@siva.apana.org.au> from "Marcus Barczak" at Nov 9, 95 04:47:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 220 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Wouldn't it be just as easy to create a small 60 or so meg partition > and just install the development tools. > you could chroot to a linux partition and run an 'all linux' environment while running FreeBSD :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 14:07:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA08344 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:07:10 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA08339 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:07:02 -0800 Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net (relay-4.mail.demon.net [158.152.1.64]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA13979 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:06:52 -0800 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by relay-4.mail.demon.net id sg.aa06272; 9 Nov 95 21:56 GMT Received: from wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk by relay-3.mail.demon.net id sg.aa25179; 9 Nov 95 21:56 GMT Received: from kiss.demon.co.uk by wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk id aa03982; 9 Nov 95 21:56 GMT Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Phil Taylor Organization: Lan Systems To: Sergio Lenzi Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:51:54 +0000 Subject: Re: INGRES Reply-to: phil@zipmail.co.uk CC: hackers@freebsd.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-ID: <9511092156.aa03982@wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 18:19:06 +0000 () > From: Sergio Lenzi > To: questions@freebsd.org > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: INGRES > > Hello, > > Sory for not giving my URL for the ingres distribution. > > > URL: http://www.bsi.com.br > I would be interested in looking at this, but everytime I try to connect to your www/ftp server it either doesn't respond or it is very slow and times out 8-( Are you having problems with this machine or it it just that links from the UK to Brazil aren't very good ???? If it is the latter is there a UK/US site that would mirror it for you ? if not I will be happy to if you could upload it onto my ftp server ftp://ftp.zipmail.co.uk/incoming and I will move it to a more suitable place i.e. /pub/unix/FreeBSD/ingres ????? Cheers Phil From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 14:45:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA09494 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:45:08 -0800 Received: from multivac.orthanc.com (root@multivac.orthanc.com [204.244.20.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09472 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:44:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (lyndon@localhost) by multivac.orthanc.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id OAA02529; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:41:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199511092241.OAA02529@multivac.orthanc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: multivac.orthanc.com: Host lyndon@localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TCP) To: phil@zipmail.co.uk cc: Sergio Lenzi , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: INGRES In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 22:51:54 GMT." <9511092156.aa03982@wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 14:41:06 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've put the distribution on: ftp.orthanc.com:/lyndon/freebsd-ingres/ It's on the back end of a V.34, but even that has to be better than the throughput from Brazil :-) (It took me several hours to FTP the files over here.) --lyndon From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 14:51:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA09829 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:51:00 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09817 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:50:50 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA07895 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:50:43 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA07019 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:50:42 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA02262 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:41:43 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511092241.XAA02262@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:41:42 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <427.815934088@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 9, 95 08:21:28 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 348 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > All I know is that if I fork a shell before I chroot to /mnt (the hard > disk), I can never use the floppy again.. What is ``never use again'' exactly? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 14:51:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA09872 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:51:10 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09816 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:50:50 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA07885; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:50:41 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA07018; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:50:40 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA02156; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:36:24 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511092236.XAA02156@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: compat20 dist in 2.1.0-951104-SNAP To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:36:24 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <642.815936546@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 9, 95 09:02:26 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 341 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I've re-rolled it with the proper permissions and minus the fatal > libtelnet.so.2.0 library. Does this also close PR: bin/813: can't telnet ? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 15:19:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA11291 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:19:52 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11259 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:19:39 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02126; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:15:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511092315.QAA02126@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:15:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511092122.NAA06512@aslan.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Nov 9, 95 01:22:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1451 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I *don't* want to toast my existing /usr/sbin/config; I like it, it > >is my friend, it serves me well. > > Than change DESTDIR in your alternate source tree before you do the install. :) and chroot to use it, etc., setc.. 8-(. > >What I'd really like is an incremental step in Richard's planned > >mega-makefile patch direction. Putting the tools that are only good > >for building kernels in with the kernel code that is to be built is > >a good first step. > > So you advocate is gets installed into the conf dir? Ugh. Yeah, just like the X tools during an X build. Not pretty, but non-colliding with existing installations. > >It's not like the boot code, etc. isn't already in the kernel tree > >and isn't really kernel code proper. > > The main reason we want to do away with config is that it just isn't > flexible enough and we have to hack it all of the time. If config > wasn't such a poor utility, there would be nothing wrong with having > it in /usr/sbin since it would only change once in a blue moon. Agreed. The ultimate goal is to kill config entirely. The short term goal is to build a -current kernel on a -stable system. If it's killed, it goes away entirely. If it's not killed yet, /usr/sbin is probably the wrong place for it to live until such time as it *is* killed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 15:23:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA11792 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:23:26 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11779 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:23:21 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02145; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:18:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511092318.QAA02145@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: samba To: paul@netcraft.co.uk Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:18:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511091955.TAA00983@ns0.netcraft.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Nov 9, 95 07:55:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 730 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone know why I can't get any clients authorised with samba, > I always get the following when I use smbclient and winfg clients give > invalid password errors too. > > SMBtcon failed. ERRSRV - ERRbadpw (Bad password - name/password pair in a Tree C > onnect or Session Setup are invalid.) > Perhaps you are using the wrong sharename, username or password? > Some servers insist that these be in uppercase Make sure you are using the correct protocol level. There has been much ado about protocol levels on the Samba list. If the problem persists, bugreport it to the Samba list. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 16:15:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA15553 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:15:28 -0800 Received: from puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (root@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.200.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA15542 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:15:25 -0800 Received: (from briggs@localhost) by puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA04056; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:13:49 -0500 From: Allen Briggs Message-Id: <199511100013.TAA04056@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:13:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511091843.LAA29465@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 9, 95 11:43:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 703 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere > instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? Why? Does it still have machine-dependencies in it? I highly recommend the much more machine-independent 'config' that NetBSD is now using. Or at least something similar. As it stands, I can config for several different architectures from one config program. Porting to it is not a trivial amount of work, but I think it's well worth the effort if you do plan to be multi-platform, and it has been done before on the x86... ;-) -allen -- Allen Briggs - end killing - allen.briggs@bev.net ** MacBSD == NetBSD/mac68k ** Where does all my time go? Guess. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 16:44:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA17747 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:44:38 -0800 Received: from schwing.ginsu.com ([205.210.24.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA17732 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:44:28 -0800 Received: (from geoff@localhost) by schwing.ginsu.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA12312; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:44:09 GMT Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:44:07 +0000 () From: User GEOFF To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: I/O woes. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi guys, I have a couple of questions which I hope I'm posting to the right place. In fact, of all the FreeBSD lists I joined, this seems to be the most (only) active group. :) In any case... After doing my homework I decided to go with FreeBSD due to the fact that it was reported to be one of the fastest x86 based UNIX's arround. I've had numerous people on the ISP groups recommend it. The problem that I'm having is with the sio[1234] devices. I'm loosing characters all over the place and every one and a while I get big blats of garbage. It sounds like a handshaking problem but I can't seem to egt hardware handshaking going. This even happens at 9600 bps, although to a lessor degree. My configuration is pretty standard. I'm using an older 486/33 with 16 megs of RAM and ISA bus. The ports are all controlled by 16550s. Do I have to do anything special to get them operating with the 16550s properly? I've got one modem hooking me to the internet via 28.8 modem and two dial-up 14.4 modems for user access. Kinda a micro ISP. ;) I'm running FreeBSD 2.0, which was the most current CDROM I could get. Is this a know problem? Do I need more processing power to handle the interupts? The upgrade issue is where my second question comes in. I can't seem to locate the SUP binaries and the aren't where the README indicates. I've tried uncompressing the source package and compiling it to no avail. If someone could point me at the location of the binaries I may be able to upgrade and the problem might just disappear. Looking hopefully to 2.1, Geoff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 17:16:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA19261 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:16:27 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA19254 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:16:24 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01879; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:16:06 -0800 To: BILLYC@rsa.cirrus.com (Chen Billy) cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX In-reply-to: Your message of "09 Nov 1995 12:26:05 EST." <199511091725.AA07147@rsa.rsa.cirrus.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 17:16:06 -0800 Message-ID: <1877.815966166@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1. Is Jordon also handle Public Relationship ? Public relations? Yes, I do. > 2. What bases of your define is a good O/S ? That was Dennis's comment, not mine, so I'll let him answer it. My public stance on Linux (very impressive acheivement, has its place) is already a matter of public record. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 17:17:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA19370 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:17:26 -0800 Received: from nike.efn.org (garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA19317 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:17:05 -0800 Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA27654; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:20:49 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:20:41 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: User GEOFF cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I/O woes. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, User GEOFF wrote: > Hi guys, > > I have a couple of questions which I hope I'm posting to the right > place. In fact, of all the FreeBSD lists I joined, this seems to be the > most (only) active group. :) > > In any case... > > After doing my homework I decided to go with FreeBSD due to the fact that > it was reported to be one of the fastest x86 based UNIX's arround. I've > had numerous people on the ISP groups recommend it. The problem that I'm > having is with the sio[1234] devices. I'm loosing characters all over > the place and every one and a while I get big blats of garbage. It > sounds like a handshaking problem but I can't seem to egt hardware > handshaking going. This even happens at 9600 bps, although to a lessor > degree. take a look at /etc/rc.serial... there are a couple of other devices for the tty's that allow you to set the inital open state (ttyi*) and lock certain settings (ttyl*)... you use these to set the hardware handshaking... > My configuration is pretty standard. I'm using an older 486/33 with 16 > megs of RAM and ISA bus. The ports are all controlled by 16550s. Do I > have to do anything special to get them operating with the 16550s > properly? I've got one modem hooking me to the internet via 28.8 modem > and two dial-up 14.4 modems for user access. Kinda a micro ISP. ;) I usally transfer from my 28.8k and only use about 2-3% of the cpu... I'm running a i486/33 at 40mhz... w/ 8megs... so you shouldn't have any problems... also.. make sure the cables are good... > I'm running FreeBSD 2.0, which was the most current CDROM I could get. > Is this a know problem? Do I need more processing power to handle the > interupts? take a look at "systat -vmstat" this will give you a nice overview of whats happening on your system... TTYL... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) GCS/M/Sd#h+s+!gau-a--w++++vC+++++UF++++P---E---N++W---M--V--Y+t+5++G+b+D++ B----eu+h++!f++n---- CD5OUF++++.L-------2W.DM----N.9---NET2SP3s.2,4s.,4d.2,6--- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 17:25:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA19966 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:25:05 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA19958 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:25:02 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01916; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:23:25 -0800 To: Bakul Shah cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 10:45:50 PST." <199511091845.KAA25055@netcom22.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 17:23:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1914.815966604@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Of course, later on I would've sent a FreeBSD announcement > to the minix group -- a bit of *friendly* rivalry is so much > more fun :-) As was WWII.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 17:36:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA21129 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:36:14 -0800 Received: from nike.efn.org (garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21113 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:35:58 -0800 Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA27714; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:40:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:40:11 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: installation from CD for 2.1.0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am wondering if installing from a CD in/on a different machine than what you are installing on will be better... so you have the CD in another machine the is avaliable through ftp/nfs and the installing machine brings it off over the net... basicly I think the problem stemmed from having the floppies in the parent of the distributions instead of the distributions... so it wouldn't be able to find the root file system... Thanks for such a great OS... TTYL.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) GCS/M/Sd#h+s+!gau-a--w++++vC+++++UF++++P---E---N++W---M--V--Y+t+5++G+b+D++ B----eu+h++!f++n---- CD5OUF++++.L-------2W.DM----N.9---NET2SP3s.2,4s.,4d.2,6--- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 17:52:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA21936 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:52:54 -0800 Received: from dtihost.datatrek.com (dtihost.datatrek.com [204.31.148.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21928 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:52:48 -0800 Received: from laptop.nightflight ([205.162.141.3]) by dtihost.datatrek.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA11236 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:50:44 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:50:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199511100150.RAA11236@dtihost.datatrek.com> X-Sender: gcrutcher@datatrek.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Gary Crutcher Subject: robot.txt file Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have been checking my apache server's logfile and noticed that a number sites have been trying to access a file called "robot.txt". What is this file and do I need it on my system. Thanks, Gary Crutcher From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 17:54:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA22086 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:54:18 -0800 Received: from lobster.dataplex.net ([199.183.109.243]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA22068 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:54:07 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (COD.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.242]) by lobster.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04543; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:53:33 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:53:35 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 5:15 PM 11/9/95, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >I *don't* want to toast my existing /usr/sbin/config; I like it, it >> >is my friend, it serves me well. >> >> Than change DESTDIR in your alternate source tree before you do the >>install. :) > >and chroot to use it, etc., setc.. 8-(. >> >What I'd really like is an incremental step in Richard's planned >> >mega-makefile patch direction. Putting the tools that are only good >> >for building kernels in with the kernel code that is to be built is >> >a good first step. >> >It's not like the boot code, etc. isn't already in the kernel tree >> >and isn't really kernel code proper. Hold on. I don't advocate putting a tool like config in either the kernel OR /usr/?bin. The ONLY things that belong in /usr/bin are commands related to the present OS. Tools that are for another version of the OS belong elsewhere. And they don't belong in the kernel either. They are NOT a part of the kernel, they are a TOOL. So put them in the tools directory associated with the build in progress. To me that means that they belong in usr/?bin. (I'm not sure what the distinction between bin and sbin should really be. These are uncommon commands, but still commands on the same level as troff. I tend to say usr/bin.) Notice that I did NOT say /usr/bin. Each build should have its own set of tools. If they are the same as the version on the current system, then a link will suffice. Otherwise the proper compilation of the tool for the purpose of the particular build must be used. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 18:02:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA22682 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:02:09 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA22675 for hackers@freefall; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:02:02 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:02:02 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199511100202.SAA22675@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Top ten space hogs on freefall:/a Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, I'm aware that I myself am on this list.. :-) Just to show that I can take my own medicine.. I'll be cleaning up my home dir, can some of the other folks on this list please clean up theirs? I've also done only the top ten here, but there are numerous other folks, many of whom haven't logged into freefall in ages, taking up 30MB or more. So EVERYONE: Please clean up! We're really short on space over here and I'd much prefer that people clean up themselves rather than forcing us to start being a little more, ahem, direct in our attempts to reclaim space! Thanks! Jordan Top Ten Hogs: ------------- 49873 nate 53193 se 54298 rich 58857 dyson 63796 karl 74620 dima 77809 asami 78067 ache 105153 jkh 110155 sos From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 18:27:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA24127 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:27:54 -0800 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24113 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:27:39 -0800 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA29839; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 03:23:13 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199511100223.DAA29839@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: robot.txt file To: gcrutcher@datatrek.com (Gary Crutcher) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 03:23:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511100150.RAA11236@dtihost.datatrek.com> from "Gary Crutcher" at Nov 9, 95 05:50:44 pm Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-NCC-RegID: it.ibenet X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 856 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Gary Crutcher (Fri Nov 10 02:50:44 1995): > I have been checking my apache server's logfile and noticed that a number > sites have been trying to access a file called "robot.txt". What is this > file and do I need it on my system. The file /robot.txt, if present, tells the robots if they are welcome to your site or not, and if they are tells them which directory they cannot access, if any. For more informations, check: http://info.webcrawler.com/mak/projects/robots/robots.html I find the whole very intersting, but if you only want to exclude robots, follow the link "A standard for Robot exclusion". Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 18:36:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA24676 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:36:54 -0800 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA24655 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:36:37 -0800 Received: from server.cs.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa13544; 9 Nov 95 21:35 EST Received: from agate.cs.Virginia.EDU by uvacs.cs.virginia.edu (4.1/5.1.UVA) id AA24503; Thu, 9 Nov 95 21:35:35 EST Posted-Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:35:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by agate.cs.Virginia.EDU (4.1/SMI-2.0) id AA28182; Thu, 9 Nov 95 21:35:35 EST Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:35:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Looking for Python programmer for some advice... In-Reply-To: <199511091500.PAA10073@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Michael Smith wrote: > I'm tinkering with some python code of a foreign origin, with a view > to seeing if it can be coaxed to run under FreeBSD. > > Being a total newcomer to Python, I was wondering if I could ask a few > mildly losing questions of someone who has it up and doing useful things > under FreeBSD. > > (I notice that many of the Python Tk demos segfault. This is Not Good. > Ooh, Jordan is the maintainer. Maybe I won't pester about this until > later 8) I believe the package in 2.1 is for python 1.2. You should consider installing 1.3, which came out a month or so ago. It should compile pretty easily. I sent off patches a long time ago to make this happen. Unfortunately, you need to add libcrypt to the link command manually or such. I forgot about this when I sent my diff. :-( The demos all work with the exception of a few which haven't been updated in ages and use obsolete language features. BTW, you should install Tk4.0. I used the port and symlinked the libtk40.a to libtk.a, etc. Do you have any specific python questions? They are pretty big on python here at UVa, and I have done thousands of lines of Tk/Python programming, so I know more than most about this language. cheers, Adrian adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| Support your local programmer, http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~atf3r/ --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! Member: The League for -->>| For an application and information Programming Freedom ->| see: http://www.lpf.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 18:39:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA24902 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:39:17 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24888 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:39:09 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02562; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:34:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511100234.TAA02562@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: briggs@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (Allen Briggs) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:34:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511100013.TAA04056@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us> from "Allen Briggs" at Nov 9, 95 07:13:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 818 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere > > instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? > > Why? Does it still have machine-dependencies in it? I highly recommend > the much more machine-independent 'config' that NetBSD is now using. > Or at least something similar. Because I don't want to install the new one to use the new one. > As it stands, I can config for several different architectures from one > config program. Porting to it is not a trivial amount of work, but I > think it's well worth the effort if you do plan to be multi-platform, > and it has been done before on the x86... ;-) Config wil die eventually anyway. I meant for right now. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 18:46:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA25379 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:46:50 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA25316 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:45:24 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02607; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:40:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511100240.TAA02607@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:40:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 9, 95 07:53:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1545 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > And they don't belong in the kernel either. They are NOT a part of the > kernel, they are a TOOL. So put them in the tools directory associated with > the build in progress. That describes boot, netboot, fbsdboot (which is a *DOS* program!). I think config has about as much association with a particular kernel as /sys/kern/vnode_if.sh. Which is to say, there is a 1:1 correspondence with potential kernel changes. > To me that means that they belong in usr/?bin. (I'm not sure what the > distinction between bin and sbin should really be. These are uncommon > commands, but still commands on the same level as troff. I tend to say > usr/bin.) But config isn't a command, it's a kernel configuration semantics parsing tool to make a buildable directory in compile and add a whole bunch of crap that should be dynamically initialized anyway. It's as much a part of the kernel as the other pieces I mentioned. > Notice that I did NOT say /usr/bin. Each build should have its own set of > tools. Definitely -- and they should be associated with the source in some way. Like putting them in a "tools" dir at the same level as the kern and compile and arch specific directories. > Otherwise the proper compilation of the tool for the purpose of the > particular build must be used. Right. But I can't use it because using it entails murdering the one for the current system (ie: installing it). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 19:05:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA26894 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:05:12 -0800 Received: from lobster.dataplex.net ([199.183.109.243]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA26878 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:04:58 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (COD.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.242]) by lobster.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA05116; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:04:30 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:04:31 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 8:40 PM 11/9/95, Terry Lambert wrote: >Like putting them in a "tools" dir at the same level as the kern and >compile and arch specific directories. I certainly have no problem with that location in src/ Now I'll throw in the "ringer". gcc and make are also "tools". >> Otherwise the proper compilation of the tool for the purpose of the >> particular build must be used. > >Right. But I can't use it because using it entails murdering the one >for the current system (ie: installing it). That's because the present make system is EVIL, CORRUPT, and should be ERATICATED. Anybody who builds on top of the running system is like the proverbial guy out on the limb with saw in hand sawing between himself and the trunk. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 20:15:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01223 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:15:34 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01216 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:15:30 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id WAA23738; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:13:43 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511100413.WAA23738@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: I/O woes. To: geoff@schwing.ginsu.com (User GEOFF) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:13:42 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "User GEOFF" at Nov 9, 95 06:44:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > My configuration is pretty standard. I'm using an older 486/33 with 16 > megs of RAM and ISA bus. The ports are all controlled by 16550s. Do I > have to do anything special to get them operating with the 16550s > properly? I've got one modem hooking me to the internet via 28.8 modem > and two dial-up 14.4 modems for user access. Kinda a micro ISP. ;) I used to use a 386sx/16 with onboard 16450's to install FreeBSD via a 115200bps SLIP link. I generally got around 5000cps. I use 386DX/40's with 16550's for all sorts of things and had one machine that handled a 115200bps SLIP link, a 28.8K V.FC SLIP link, and ran several uucico/compress/gzip sessions simultaneously, reliably, under 2.0R. > I'm running FreeBSD 2.0, which was the most current CDROM I could get. > Is this a know problem? Do I need more processing power to handle the > interupts? No. You appear to have some other issue you haven't addressed. My guide for serial communications: 1) you should ALWAYS use hardware flow control unless you have a REALLY good reason not to. REALLY good, as in, the device you are talking to doesn't support it. 2) note, I don't know if the current getty in FreeBSD will allow you to set this up "right". I've used my own severely hacked getty since the later days of 386BSD/earlier days of FreeBSD because there was tons of lacking functionality. Part of this was to add "proper" hardware handshaking support because there was no gettytab flag to turn it on. 3) set up modems, etc. to support FULL hardware handshaking (i.e. locked data rate, RTS/CTS, DTR, CD, etc). 4) make sure you use good cables that support all signals. Most do these days. Even the ones at Wal-Mart. 5) make sure FreeBSD probes the UARTs as 16550's. Everything works pretty well for me out of the box (besides getty, which I haven't looked at lately). ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 20:22:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01646 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:22:31 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01615 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:22:18 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA04490; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:22:11 -0800 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org cc: platforms@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Of interest? They claim to make hardware information available.. Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 20:22:11 -0800 Message-ID: <4488.815977331@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk See: http://www.be.com Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 20:43:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA02634 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:43:06 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA02611 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:42:54 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id WAA23781; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:42:17 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511100442.WAA23781@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet!! I found the problem! To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:42:17 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John Polstra" at Nov 9, 95 10:40:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > So we have shared library collisions. From a quick re-examination of bin.*, > > it would appear that there is a mix of *.2.0, *.2.1, *.2.2, and *.3.0... is > > this good? > > No. It's BAD. My point exactly :-) It's not as clear what the best policy is. Do you bump with each release? I think that that might be "bad" policy as it would cause needless increments in rarely modified libs. Ideally, you bump the version number when you change the services offered by a library. But what about when you have more than one library, and it is "pick one of X"? They should probably all get numbered the same, and one higher than the previous revision(s) - i.e. this new Kerberized libtelnet and the system default libtelnet should both be libtelnet.so.2.1. Or, maybe it would be even better for the sake of clarity, to install the Kerberized libtelnet as "libtelnet.krb.so.2.1", the default as "libtelnet.reg.so.2.1", and make symlinks. > > Well at least it gives us a suggested workaround: don't install compat > > libraries. > > Sometimes you're stuck with them. For instance, the X-Inside X server > depends on having compat1x installed. I realize that. I would of course prefer to see it fixed. > I think the right solution would be to _religiously_ follow the rule > that shared library minor version numbers get incremented on _every_ new > "release". Whether "release" means RELEASE or SNAPshot is probably a > matter of judgement. To be perfectly safe, the minor number would have > to increase every time a library changed in any way whatsoever. I would argue that that is needlessly strict. You don't WANT to update the minor version numbers every RELEASE or SNAP, unless there is a difference that would require it. A version number change is intended to convey the fact that the available library interface is somehow different. If I decide to rewrite printf but not change the interface, that should NOT be a version number bump. If I add functionality that requires external support, or add new functionality that adds to or changes the library interface, that SHOULD be a version bump. So when libtelnet was Kerberized, the numbers for both regular and Kerberized should have been bumped (in my mind). I am NOT being critical of whoever did this work, mind you. When I Kerberized my own systems I didn't bump it either. This is, of course, a subject that merits debate :-) > This would ensure that the system would always use the newest version of > each library, no matter what order they were loaded off the various > distributions. Bingo. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 21:07:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA03958 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:07:27 -0800 Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [198.211.214.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA03945 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:07:15 -0800 Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA01389; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:05:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199511100505.VAA01389@austin.polstra.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Joe Greco cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kerb Encr Telnet!! I found the problem! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 22:42:17 CST." <199511100442.WAA23781@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 21:05:44 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I think the right solution would be to _religiously_ follow the rule > > that shared library minor version numbers get incremented on _every_ new > > "release". Whether "release" means RELEASE or SNAPshot is probably a > > matter of judgement. To be perfectly safe, the minor number would have > > to increase every time a library changed in any way whatsoever. > > I would argue that that is needlessly strict. You don't WANT to update the > minor version numbers every RELEASE or SNAP, unless there is a difference > that would require it. A version number change is intended to convey the > fact that the available library interface is somehow different. Sorry, I don't agree with this particular statement. A change in the MAJOR version number conveys the fact that the interface is different. But a change in the minor version number simply indicates a newer implementation of the same interface (or at least one that is backwards compatible). This distinction is explicit not only in the SunOS/SVR4 documentation, but also in the way that shared library dependencies are resolved in executables and in other shared libraries. When searching for a shared library to satisfy a dependency, both ld and ld.so search for an exact match on only the library name and the major version number. But an exact match is not required for the minor version number; it is required only that the minor version of the library be the highest available, and at least as great as the minor version specified in the dependency. This is a crucial distinction. Major version numbers represent changes in functionality, while minor versions simply represent newer implementations. > If I add functionality that requires external support, or add new > functionality that adds to or changes the library interface, that > SHOULD be a version bump. Yes -- it should be a bump in the MAJOR version number. > So when libtelnet was Kerberized, the numbers for both > regular and Kerberized should have been bumped (in my mind). Yes, but again, in this case the major version numbers should have been bumped. > This is, of course, a subject that merits debate :-) No argument there. We all share the ultimate goal of making things as foolproof as reasonably possible. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 21:55:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA06164 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:55:42 -0800 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA06108 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:53:14 -0800 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD-4.4) id QAA15021; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:50:30 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199511100550.QAA15021@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: I/O woes. To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:50:29 +1100 (EST) Cc: geoff@schwing.ginsu.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511100413.WAA23738@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Nov 9, 95 10:13:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2039 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco writes: > > My configuration is pretty standard. I'm using an older 486/33 with 16 > > megs of RAM and ISA bus. The ports are all controlled by 16550s. Do I > > have to do anything special to get them operating with the 16550s > > properly? I've got one modem hooking me to the internet via 28.8 modem > > and two dial-up 14.4 modems for user access. Kinda a micro ISP. ;) You should have little trouble with this .. > 1) you should ALWAYS use hardware flow control unless you have a REALLY good > reason not to. REALLY good, as in, the device you are talking to doesn't > support it. That's the ONLY reason not to. > 2) note, I don't know if the current getty in FreeBSD will allow you to set > this up "right". I've used my own severely hacked getty since the later > days of 386BSD/earlier days of FreeBSD because there was tons of lacking > functionality. Part of this was to add "proper" hardware handshaking > support because there was no gettytab flag to turn it on. I use mgetty because it does this and more .. it allows me to set the modems so that they don't auto-answer if the machine's down - saving my customer's phone bill connecting to a modem with nothing behind it. There's another motivation, however. All three -current machines I run accept inbound fidonet calls .. mgetty is the only getty (that I know of) which supports this. These machines are a 386DX/40 (Opti 386/WB), 486DX/33 (UMC) and 486DX2/66 (SiS) .. all fitted with 16550s and at least 16 meg of RAM. The only machine that gives me trouble is the 486DX/33 .. it will overflow the 16550 FIFOs if sio.c is left in "standard" form. Dropping the RX trigger point to 8 (line 1841 in -current) solved the problem. Another nit with (apparently) memory/cache timing on the same machine is yet to be fully resolved. All of them feed several newsfeeds with V.34/V.FC modems and are fed themselves via ISDN. Generally speaking, it works and it's proven to be more stable than the commercial platforms I've used in the past, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 9 22:37:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA08656 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:37:07 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA08643 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:37:03 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Fri, 10 Nov 95 06:37 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA23040; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:35:22 +0100 Message-Id: <199511100635.HAA23040@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:35:21 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511091808.LAA29248@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 9, 95 11:08:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 579 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > Ok. I'm Joe User a f@#$ing newbie, I only have a f#$%ing 286 so I > > write to freebsd-questions and ask'em "Ho guys what kind of UNIX > > *can* I run on my wonderful 286", and get no answer. > > > > When I buy a P100 I will go *for sure* to the linux mailing lists > > where people is so kind to give advise to me, poor owner of a 286. > > > > Sorry Jordan, this time you're wrong, IMHO. > > Ah, what do you know, you own a f#$%ing 286. > > Or is that a f@#$ing 286? Well, in my case it's a f$&%ing 286. I use it as in Internet router. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 00:30:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA11636 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:30:34 -0800 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11597 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:29:32 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA09569; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:26:31 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199511100826.JAA09569@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: samba To: paul@netcraft.co.uk Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:26:31 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511091955.TAA00983@ns0.netcraft.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Nov 9, 95 07:55:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 234 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone know why I can't get any clients authorised with samba, > I always get the following when I use smbclient and winfg clients give > invalid password errors too. After so many messages on this subject: what is SAMBA ? Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 01:15:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA13022 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:15:29 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12887 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:13:20 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA25136; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:09:33 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA11285; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:09:31 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA05276; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:01:59 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511100901.KAA05276@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: ideas from netbsd To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:01:59 +0100 (MET) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <2119.815969113@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 9, 95 06:05:13 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1547 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > All I know is that if I fork a shell before I chroot to /mnt (the hard > > > disk), I can never use the floppy again.. > > > > What is ``never use again'' exactly? > > It's busy. Any attempt to open /dev/fd0 again will fail. Perhaps a floppy driver problem. I will have to see if i could isolate the problem. Forcibly unmounting didn't help? (mount -f) Yeah, i know why it's busy (and yes, forcibly unmounting would help)! If a device is accessible by different vnodes (that all have identical major and minor #'s), the kernel won't let you unmount a file system containing one of these vnodes. You can easily verify this by mounting a ufs floppy (or perhaps even a vn or mfs device), then copying the entire /dev there (as you would do it e.g. for the copy of a boot floppy). Any attempt to unmount it will be rejected (since there are now some device nodes on it that are also open inside the original /dev tree). Forcibly unmounting helps, and doesn't harm since the open descriptors refer to nodes that have not been opened from the floppy. Hmm, i'm not sure if it would also help in the installer case, the question is which descriptors are still being held open, and what would happen if they are being revoked by the umount -f. If they are stale anyway, it doesn't hurt. If they are really active, it would break everything... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 01:53:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA14266 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:53:35 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA14253 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:53:24 -0800 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA14577; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:53:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199511100953.KAA14577@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: samba To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:53:15 +0100 (MET) Cc: paul@netcraft.co.uk, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511100826.JAA09569@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Nov 10, 95 09:26:31 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 771 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Anyone know why I can't get any clients authorised with samba, > > I always get the following when I use smbclient and winfg clients give > > invalid password errors too. > > After so many messages on this subject: what is SAMBA ? > > Luigi > samba provides LanManager services on a TCP/IP protocol stack for UNIX. Thus you can make a FreeBSD system serve a group of Win3.11 (WfW), Win95 or Win/NT boxes as a file and print server. Additionally you have client functionality, i.e. you can copy a file to a Windows box provided the Windows box has exported the corresponding directory. Regarding the password problems: I have none with 2.0.5-Release and samba 1.9.13. What CFLAGS are you using? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 02:22:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA15660 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:22:42 -0800 Received: from pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (root@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.114.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA15655 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:22:33 -0800 Received: from pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (fn@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA10981 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:22:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199511101022.CAA10981@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: vnconfig question. X-Web: <"http://www.hungry.com:8000/"> X-OS: 4.4BSD derivatives. X-Disclaimer: THIS IS UNPUBLISHED PROPRIETARY SOURCE CODE OF AT&T X-AT&T: YOU WILL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <10975.815998940.1@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:22:21 -0800 From: Faried Nawaz Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hi, 1) yesterday, the news machine ran out of swap (80mb doesn't cut it...), and i decided to create a swapfile. i did (as root) dd if=/dev/zero of=/x/b/swapfile bs=1k count=16384 vnconfig -v -e /dev/vn0c /x/b/swapfile swap later, today, i was looking around on the box, and saw -rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 16777216 Nov 8 23:06 swapfile ie, read perms for everyone on the swapfile. this is (obviously) bad for security. i guess if i'd thought a bit more about what i was doing, and had remembered to umask 077 or chmod og-r swapfile, this would not be a problem. i'm not sure everyone will always do that, though. does it make sense to change vnconfig to automatically adjust the permissions of a vnode file upon configuring, or to warn the user? if so, should it do that upon configuring for any file, or for just swapfiles (i'm guessing swapfiles only)? i hacked together a patch which would change the permissions on the swapfile if vnconfig -e ... ... swap is used. it's a bad patch because (i think!) people can do vnconfig -c /dev/vn0b /blah/swapfile swapon /dev/vn0b and it does nothing to the swapfile in that case. here's the patch (against -current): *** vnconfig.c-ORIG Thu Nov 9 22:27:45 1995 --- vnconfig.c Fri Nov 10 02:01:22 1995 *************** *** 301,311 **** */ if (flags & VN_ENABLE) { if (flags & VN_SWAP) { ! rv = swapon(dev); if (rv) ! perror("swapon"); ! else if (verbose) ! printf("%s: swapping enabled\n", dev); } if (flags & (VN_MOUNTRO|VN_MOUNTRW)) { struct ufs_args args; --- 301,326 ---- */ if (flags & VN_ENABLE) { if (flags & VN_SWAP) { ! struct stat st; ! ! rv = stat(file, &st); if (rv) ! perror("stat"); ! else { ! if (st.st_mode & S_IRGRP || ! st.st_mode & S_IROTH) { ! rv = chmod(vndisks[0].file, S_IRUSR); ! if (rv) ! perror("chmod"); ! else { ! rv = swapon(dev); ! if (rv) ! perror("swapon"); ! else if (verbose) ! printf("%s: swapping enabled\n", dev); ! } ! } ! } } if (flags & (VN_MOUNTRO|VN_MOUNTRW)) { struct ufs_args args; faried. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 02:28:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA15906 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:28:26 -0800 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA15881 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:27:59 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA09744; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:24:30 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199511101024.LAA09744@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: samba To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:24:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: paul@netcraft.co.uk, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511100953.KAA14577@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Nov 10, 95 10:52:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 406 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > samba provides LanManager services on a TCP/IP protocol stack > for UNIX. Thus you can make a FreeBSD system serve a group of Win3.11 > (WfW), Win95 or Win/NT boxes as a file and print server. Additionally > you have client functionality, i.e. you can copy a file to a Windows box > provided the Windows box has exported the corresponding directory. Wow! exactly what I was looking for! Thanks Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 03:55:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA18900 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 03:55:03 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA18894 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 03:55:01 -0800 From: nbc@cs.strath.ac.uk Received: from bell.cs.strath.ac.uk (bell.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id DAA18460 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 03:54:52 -0800 Received: from simpson-02.cs.strath.ac.uk by bell.cs.strath.ac.uk id aa01711; 10 Nov 95 11:44 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:44:31 GMT Message-Id: <9511101144.AA04106@simpson-02.cs.strath.ac.uk> Date-Received: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:44:31 GMT To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Catastrophic Failure! Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes indeed, the inevitablilty we have come to associate with computers crashing (they only do it when it's important they don't) has manifest itself yet again. My P75 running FreeBSD had been up for 6 days, running flawlessly, until our systems manager came along to see it with a view to setting up some similar systems. The demo was going well; I showed him that a P75 with FreeBSD was faster in most cases that an Alpha, and all were pleased. Until, that is, I switched to another virtual screen (using fvwm) which had netscape, running remotely from one of the aforementioned Alphas, on it. And lo, disaster let loose! Netscxape failed to redraw its window! This unforgivable event was followed a few seconds later by my deity-like machine rebooting - and I mean *rebooting*. No kernel panics, no disk syncs, just a good ol' reboot, like my Amiga does when a program plays core war. Now, I'm not really bothered by this, but I thought it best to inform you of this. I've no idea why this happened but I suspect it had something to do with netscape, what with it being a flaky beta version. I'm running the 2.1.0-951026-SNAP snapshot kernel on top of a 2.0.5 release, so perhaps this has something to do with it? Or perhaps it was the Alpha's revenge on my machine for being faster than it ;-) Neil From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 05:49:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA22147 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 05:49:56 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA22140 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 05:49:52 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id IAA28451; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:52:06 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA07120; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:52:05 +0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:52:05 +0500 Message-Id: <9511101352.AA07120.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 865 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Thu Nov 9 17:19:06 1995 > From: Julian Elischer > Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD > To: mjb@siva.apana.org.au (Marcus Barczak) > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:00:56 -0800 (PST) > Cc: apana-lists-os-freebsd-hackers@apana.org.au > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be just as easy to create a small 60 or so meg partition > > and just install the development tools. > > > you could chroot to a linux partition and run an 'all linux' > environment while running FreeBSD :) > Not a complaint here, BUT, why would someone want to compile and run all the LINUX binaries while running FreeBSD ??? Seems to me, if you want to run Linux, then run it. Don't emulate it under FreeBSD. Unless of course, FreeBSD can emulate it faster/better than Linux can run it(the programs I mean). Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 05:59:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA22512 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 05:59:16 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA22504 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 05:59:13 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id JAA28867; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:01:28 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA07263; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:01:27 +0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:01:27 +0500 Message-Id: <9511101401.AA07263.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Samba problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 987 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have installed samba V1.9.13 on a FreeBSD 2.0.5 machine. The name of the machine is abc.net1.com On a SparcServer 1000, running Solaris 2.3, machine name sparc.net2.net, I can 'smbclient \\\\abc.net1.com\\home' and it works fine. On a PC running WFW 3.11, machine name pc.net2.net, I am unable to connect to the shared drive. The only way I know is to use File Manager. What am I doing wrong ??? --------------smb.conf from abc.net1.com ------------ [global] create mode = 755 locking = no status = yes getwd cache = yes browseable = yes [samba] path = /usr/local/samba writable = no printable = yes create mode = 755 username = bin comment = SAMBA system software browseable = no [homes] guest ok = no read only = no browseable = no [home] path = /home writable = yes printable = no create mode = 755 username = @jerry,jkendall comment = /home served from antares browseable = yes From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 06:08:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA22837 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:08:15 -0800 Received: from bell.cs.strath.ac.uk (bell.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA22831 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:07:59 -0800 Received: from muir-10.cs.strath.ac.uk by bell.cs.strath.ac.uk id aa03231; 10 Nov 95 13:44 GMT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Catastrophic Failure! Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:44:12 +0000 From: Neil Clark Message-ID: <9511101344.aa03231@bell.cs.strath.ac.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <12487.816008170@time.cdrom.com>you write: >> I'm running >> the 2.1.0-951026-SNAP snapshot kernel on top of a 2.0.5 release, so >> perhaps this has something to do with it? > >Ooh! Mixed binaries! Bad news! Hmmm. I thought it all seemed too simple ;-) >I really would load the latest snapshot (or wait for 2.1) and unify >the world. Heisenberg visits far less frequently that way - take it >from one who knows! :-) I was thinking about grabbing the latest snap and doing a "make world", but decided to just grab the kernel and see what happened. It's worked pretty well for the most part. My urgency is called for by the desire to get my ATAPI cd-rom (a Toshiba XM-5302B) working. It seems to be *nearly* there (I've patched MAKEDEV and all that), but not quite. Maybe a make world will sort the obstinate swine out... Making the world from the latest snap is beginning to sound *incredibly* tempting, although perhaps a little wasteful of time in light of the imminent "proper" release, but my impatience knows no bounds! >Also, this may have been a bug in your XFree86 server (which works >better for some cards than others). I have a Diamond Stealth DRAM 64. >Fortunately, for most cards the server is pretty good and this kinda >thing doesn't happen. Also, there are the $99 Xaccel servers (one of >which I use - I bought 5 copies!) which pretty much just run like >tops. I didn't know one could *buy* X servers for FreeBSD. Do they sell a lot? Presumably they are easier to set up or something than the standard (free) ones? I'm beginning to think my crash was just "one of these things." Netscape hung the X server on a SparcStation here recently as well, but didn't crash the machine; maybe it was just a fatal combination of flaky netscape + mixed binaries + administrative incompetence on my part? I guess we'll never know ;-) Neil From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 06:08:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA22864 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:08:32 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA22858 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:08:30 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Fri, 10 Nov 95 14:07 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA27272; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:42:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199511101342.OAA27272@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: (fwd) JFYI: Linux-FT joins X/Open To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:42:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <199511082108.XAA03812@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> from "Andrew V. Stesin" at Nov 8, 95 11:08:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2030 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andrew V. Stesin writes: > > I just wonder -- what the consequences of this may look like? In fact, there are a number of interesting points: 1. The FSF has already shown that free software can not just adhere to standards but help implement them. It makes sense for free software producers to join the standards organizations. 2. So why doesn't the FreeBSD team jump on the bandwagon? 3. From what I can see, Linux hasn't joined yet. Linux-FT (fault tolerant?) looks like a small side group of the main Linux explosion. But I think we'll see more. Greg > > Forwarded message: > # > # Linux-FT joins X/Open > # > # This is a *MAJOR* and long overdue step forward for Linux. > # > # The group developing Linux-FT have joined X/Open, the international open > # systems standards organization wich manages the Single UNIX Specification > # and licenses the UNIX trademark. > # > # "Independant Software Vendors are often nervous about porting their > # products to Linux due to the perceived lack of standardisation and > # concerns about support and stability. X/Open membership demonstrates a > # commitment to Conformance, Standards and Stability which has been > # unachievable in the past and is a significant step towards proving > # that Linux is a viable and stable platform. > # > # With Linux-FT's proven commitment to Commercial Quality, Standards > # and Conformance, X/Open membership is a logical step forward in > # this definitive products growth and provides the Commercial > # and Free communities with a solid platform on which to base their > # products." > # > # says Lynda Nurden of Lasermoon Ltd. > # > # > # "Having a part of the Free Software community as an X/Open ISV > # Council member is an important step towards the worldwide acceptance > # of UNIX systems standards. > # > # We welcome this development and wish this new Member every sucess." > # > # says Graham Bird of X/Open. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 06:23:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA23181 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:23:39 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA23176 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:23:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA19066; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:23:22 -0800 To: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:52:05 +0500." <9511101352.AA07120.gonzo@vmicls.com> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:23:21 -0800 Message-ID: <19045.816013401@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Not a complaint here, BUT, why would someone want to > compile and run all the LINUX binaries while running FreeBSD ??? I don't think there are many good reasons. In fact, I'll run the risk of offending a few people by saying that it'd be downright stupid. Being able to RUN Linux binaries is a perfectly good idea, if only so that you don't have to go bowing and scraping to every application vendor who doesn't even see FreeBSD as a blip on their screens to somehow do a native port. If we can run the Linux version of their software, we win. Sure, we'd like native ports of everything under the sun but it just ain't going to happen unless we happen to grow to ten times our current size and also populate the bookstores with enough FreeBSD books to deforest half of Borneo, as Linux has managed to do. Those are the kinds of things that sway a ISV (well, that or a very fat contract from someone demanding such support). But linux emulation doesn't mean that we have to go whole-hog and make it possible to cross compile an entire working Linux system from a FreeBSD box. That's what I referred to as stupid. It would be far easier and *less failure prone* to simply load Linux on its own partition and switch over. The introduction of ext2fs into -current also makes the idea of sharing files and other resources while booted into one or the other much more practical. I'm sure if someone really worked hard enough they could probably come up with a reasonably convincing argument for how a full linux cross-compilation environment would make their lives easier, but it's take a lot more than that to convince me that this makes sense for the general populace. Being able to run things like Linux Wingz, WordPerfect or the Caldera desktop - now THAT makes sense. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 06:42:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA23672 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:42:54 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA23665 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:42:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA08382; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:40:00 -0800 To: Neil Clark cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Catastrophic Failure! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:44:12 GMT." <9511101344.aa03231@bell.cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:39:59 -0800 Message-ID: <8374.816014399@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Making the world from the latest snap is beginning to sound *incredibly* > tempting, although perhaps a little wasteful of time in light of the > imminent "proper" release, but my impatience knows no bounds! Well, it's not that long or difficult a procedure - go ahead. You must sleep sometime! :-) > I have a Diamond Stealth DRAM 64. Hmmm. That's a newer one. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are lurking bogons there still. > I didn't know one could *buy* X servers for FreeBSD. Do they sell a lot? > Presumably they are easier to set up or something than the standard (free) > ones? Significantly easier. Send mail to info@xinside.com for ordering details. > I'm beginning to think my crash was just "one of these things." Netscape > hung the X server on a SparcStation here recently as well, but didn't crash > the machine; maybe it was just a fatal combination of flaky netscape + mixed > binaries + administrative incompetence on my part? I guess we'll never know ; Can you reproduce it? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 06:46:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA23859 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:46:40 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA23854 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:46:38 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA01305; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:32:52 -0800 To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin), hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Subject: Re: (fwd) JFYI: Linux-FT joins X/Open In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:42:25 +0100." <199511101342.OAA27272@allegro.lemis.de> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:32:52 -0800 Message-ID: <1300.816013972@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 2. So why doesn't the FreeBSD team jump on the bandwagon? I've already made the approach to X/Open, but haven't received any sort of reply yet. We shall see. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 07:43:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA28896 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:43:33 -0800 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA28888 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:43:26 -0800 Received: from server.cs.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa27035; 10 Nov 95 10:42 EST Received: from stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (stretch-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU) by uvacs.cs.virginia.edu (4.1/5.1.UVA) id AA23621; Fri, 10 Nov 95 10:42:44 EST Posted-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:42:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (4.1/SMI-2.0) id AA24689; Fri, 10 Nov 95 10:42:43 EST Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:42:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Neil Clark , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Catastrophic Failure! In-Reply-To: <8374.816014399@time.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I have a Diamond Stealth DRAM 64. > > Hmmm. That's a newer one. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there > are lurking bogons there still. Yes, there are bogons still there. My GXe was recently fried by lightning via an internal modem, so I borrowed a Diamond Stealth (24?). I consistently had problems switching out of graphics mode. The machine would lock up hard or reboot 75% of the time either when exiting X or switching to a vtty. > > hung the X server on a SparcStation here recently as well, but didn't crash > > the machine; maybe it was just a fatal combination of flaky netscape + mixed > > binaries + administrative incompetence on my part? I guess we'll never know ; > > Can you reproduce it? Yes, but I finally got my replacement GXe. This problem was common enough that I began to explicitly synch the fs before exiting X. BTW, this was with XF86 3.12 XS3 server and 2.2-current. cheers, Adrian adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| Support your local programmer, http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~atf3r/ --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! Member: The League for -->>| For an application and information Programming Freedom ->| see: http://www.lpf.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 07:44:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA28966 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:44:40 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA28959 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:44:34 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA11179; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 02:38:36 +1100 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 02:38:36 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511101538.CAA11179@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: fn@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vnconfig question. Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >-rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 16777216 Nov 8 23:06 swapfile >ie, read perms for everyone on the swapfile. >this is (obviously) bad for security. i guess if i'd thought a >does it make sense to change vnconfig to automatically adjust the >permissions of a vnode file upon configuring, or to warn the user? >if so, should it do that upon configuring for any file, or for just >swapfiles (i'm guessing swapfiles only)? The largest hole is for a user-writeable file system image that gets mounted. There's nothing vnconfig can do about that except to refuse to config it. >i hacked together a patch which would change the permissions on the >swapfile if vnconfig -e ... ... swap is used. it's a bad patch because >(i think!) people can do > vnconfig -c /dev/vn0b /blah/swapfile > swapon /dev/vn0b >and it does nothing to the swapfile in that case. Perhaps the file permissions should be at least as restrictive as the most restrictive vn device permission. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 07:52:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA29598 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:52:50 -0800 Received: from bell.cs.strath.ac.uk (mmdf@bell.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA29593 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:52:47 -0800 Received: from muir-10.cs.strath.ac.uk by bell.cs.strath.ac.uk id aa04639; 10 Nov 95 15:31 GMT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Catastrophic Failure! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:39:59 PST." <8374.816014399@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:31:54 +0000 From: Neil Clark Message-ID: <9511101531.aa04639@bell.cs.strath.ac.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <8374.816014399@time.cdrom.com>you write: > >Well, it's not that long or difficult a procedure - go ahead. You >must sleep sometime! :-) It may not be difficult, but it will be long - I believe the SuperJANET connection to the USA has been afflicted by gremlins at the USA end, and as a result we are getting an incredibly flaky service here in the UK. The 4/11 snap doesn't seem to have appeared at my "local" mirror yet - the directories are there but they are empty. I'll probably grab it from somewhere else and, like you say, grab some sleep while I wait ;-) >Can you reproduce it? Doubtful. I would need to recreate the exact circumstances prior to the event with great accuracy, which would involve logging onto several varieties of machine and running benchmarks simultaneously, pointing netscape to the page it was at at the time, and inviting the admin chap here again to emit the same bogons while observing. I think it would be easier to do a "make world" ;-) Neil From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 07:54:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA29700 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:54:33 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29693 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:54:29 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id KAA06646; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:56:45 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA11471; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:56:43 +0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:56:43 +0500 Message-Id: <9511101556.AA11471.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Samba problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 696 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > I have installed samba V1.9.13 on a FreeBSD 2.0.5 machine. The name > > of the machine is abc.net1.com > > > > On a SparcServer 1000, running Solaris 2.3, machine name sparc.net2.net, > > I can 'smbclient \\\\abc.net1.com\\home' and it works fine. > > > > On a PC running WFW 3.11, machine name pc.net2.net, I am unable to > > connect to the shared drive. The only way I know is to use > > File Manager. > > > > What am I doing wrong ??? > > > > --------------smb.conf from abc.net1.com ------------ > [snip] > > Do you have TCP/IP installed on the WfW 3.11 box? > You have to. > Yes TCP/IP is installed. The WFW box accesses samba on the Sparc but not the FreeBSD box. Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 08:00:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA00179 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:00:52 -0800 Received: from bell.cs.strath.ac.uk (bell.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA00159 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:00:31 -0800 From: nbc@cs.strath.ac.uk Received: from neilson.cs.strath.ac.uk by bell.cs.strath.ac.uk id aa04877; 10 Nov 95 15:59 GMT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Catastrophic Failure! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 95 10:42:42 EST." Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 15:59:13 +0000 Message-ID: <9511101559.aa04877@bell.cs.strath.ac.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Yes, there are bogons still there. My GXe was recently fried by >lightning via an internal modem, so I borrowed a Diamond Stealth (24?). >I consistently had problems switching out of graphics mode. The machine >would lock up hard or reboot 75% of the time either when exiting X or >switching to a vtty. Now that you mention it, I *have* had problems occasionally when switching from X to a vtty, but nowhere near as frequently as 75%. They have only occurred a few times, but when they did the machine needed a three fingered salute. It's not been such an issue since I've been running xdm though. Neil From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 08:17:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA01258 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:17:52 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA01245 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:17:45 -0800 Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA24699; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:16:02 -0500 Received: by section05 (5.x/SECTION05-Client) id AA13590; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:15:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:15:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Larry McVoy Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, "William A. Arbaugh" , Theo de Raadt , Chuck Cranor Subject: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk this program does a very simple thing: 1) open a file 2) call write with an invalid address, viz: write(fd, x, 5); where x is (void *) 0x40000000 it does this as many times as you ask. What it's measuring is correlated to the raw performance of the system's ability to look up a vm region or segment or object given a virtual address. It is not a pure measure, since systems that do a lot of work before checking the arguments (freebsd) will fare worse than systems that just check the arguments up front for validity (linux). On the other hand, all the system calls that happen a lot have to do this operation, so you probably want this type of thing to be fast. Numbers ( i just do wall clock time, since to first order it's all system) linux, p100, 3.8 seconds Irix, 150 Mhz. r4600 63 seconds Solaris, 66 Mhz. sparc-20 68 seconds FreeBSD, p90 290 seconds Yup, freebsd is really basically 70 times slower than linux on this one. And yup, linux really does do this in 40 ticks -- not bad. It's probably the fact that linux checks it first and gets the work out of the way, but i'm not sure why freebsd has to be so slow. I'm willing to blame it on the mach vm, since it has been such a problem in so many other ways. Should we tell arpa :-)? I'm willing to be convinced this is a lousy general-purpose benchmark. For some work i'm doing it is measuring an important value however. But if you can tell my why it is fatally flawed i'm willing to listen. Thanks! ron #include #include main(argc, argv) int argc; char *argv[]; { int fd; void * x; int i; int count = 1; int debug = 0; if (argc < 2) { printf("usage: %s file-to-create [count [debug]]\n", argv[0]); exit(1); } fd = open(argv[1], O_RDWR|O_CREAT, 0777); if (fd < 0) { perror(argv[1]); exit(1); } if (argc > 2) count = atoi(argv[2]); if (argc > 3) debug++; printf("created %s ", argv[1]); x = (void *) 0x40000000; for(i = 0; i < count; i++) if (write(fd, x, 5) > 0) printf("if did not fail!\n"); perror("one illin"); } Ron Minnich |Like a knife through Daddy's heart: rminnich@sarnoff.com |"Don't make fun of Windows, daddy! It takes care (609)-734-3120 | of all my files and it's reliable and I like it". From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 09:33:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA03954 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:33:28 -0800 Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA03947 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:33:26 -0800 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA22417; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:46:59 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:46:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199511101746.MAA22417@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, dennis wrote: > >> I've got a '286 MB in the back room that I'll gladly trade for a nice >> bottle of chianti > > how about a six pack of foster's instead of chianti? will that do? Oil cans, or bottles? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 09:36:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA04059 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:08 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04053 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05589; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:56 -0800 To: announce@freefall.FreeBSD.org cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response "How long is a piece of string?" However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth mentioning. I've really only two WEB servers that I can honestly say I have much experience with, and that's www.cdrom.com and www.freebsd.org. Unfortunately, www.cdrom.com gets so little WEB traffic in comparison to FTP traffic (on which we have LOTS of data) that the numbers are almost lost in the noise. www.freebsd.org is also a popular server as servers go, but not so popular that we're getting dozens of hits per second or anything as impressive sounding as that. What I'd most ideally like would be some numbers from a site that's to WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever I can get! :-) Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Heck, if you need some additional incentive for signing up for such a mad scheme then might I suggest also putting up some adverts for whatever service you offer on the page as "live data" (grin) so all those hundreds (thousands?) of users will also see your advertising in the process of trying to see how much punishment a FreeBSD WEB server can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! Either way, it would also generate a lot of publicity for all concerned (us and the test machine providers) and furnish the FreeBSD Project with some very valuable data that it doesn't have now. So how about it? Any takers? If you're really interested in helping to further the cause of Spreading The Word, I can assure you that this would be a significant step in the right direction. I'll also be more than happy to work with whomever steps forward in drafting a reasonably provocative-sounding announcement to ensure that people take up the gauntlet. After all, how much trouble can whapping "reload" for 5 or so minutes be? :-) Jordan P.S. Suggestions on how to make this an even more meaningful test from those webmaniacs out there among you would also be sincerely appreciated! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 10:21:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA05770 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:21:06 -0800 Received: from po9.andrew.cmu.edu (PO9.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05764 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:21:01 -0800 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po9.andrew.cmu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id NAA00685; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:20:51 -0500 Received: via switchmail; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:20:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from pinball.cc.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:19:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from pinball.cc.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:19:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pinball.cc.cmu.edu.HP9000.712 via MS.5.6.pinball.cc.cmu.edu.hp700_ux90; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:19:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0kctSf200WAK0LPVk0@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:19:23 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Martin To: announce@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? CC: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> References: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > What I'd most ideally like would be some numbers from a site that's to > WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever > I can get! :-) > Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, > server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. Check these excerpts of daily posted statistics from BEST Internet (www.best.com). They get enormous traffic, too much for their two Pentium FreeBSD systems (I think they want to do use SGI soon, but they'll screw it up). I'm not sure who you would contact for detailed information about their configuration. I think they're P5-120's with 128Mb RAM, perhaps? From: root@best.net (Root) Newsgroups: best.status Subject: Daily WWW HIT Usage Report for Best Date: 10 Nov 1995 02:53:54 -0800 Organization: Best Internet Communications +TOTAL+ 2643688 21479.201 MB doki 266846 1359.395 MB iminfo 175801 1104.376 MB trnelson 102914 1034.096 MB asixinc 54528 682.670 MB webmastr 12226 541.634 MB walterh 22783 454.667 MB stw 30886 377.983 MB haynes 56291 371.855 MB etzine 72022 358.696 MB dml 14246 346.098 MB craig 30897 310.661 MB eroticsf 31107 278.579 MB single 22695 273.475 MB onethumb 2599 264.150 MB rusty 18844 260.804 MB backdrop 30349 235.669 MB 9latigid 29594 225.976 MB icc 2899 222.078 MB raptor 10451 219.839 MB From: root@best.net (Root) Newsgroups: best.status Subject: Daily WWW CGI Usage Report for Best Date: 10 Nov 1995 02:54:20 -0800 x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/haynes/public_html 6130 0.000 MB x /home/httpd/pub/imagine/public_html 5921 0.000 MB x /home/httpd/pub/robj/public_html 4042 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/blowfish/public_html 3718 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/entcafe/public_html 3387 0.000 MB x /home/httpd/pub/9latigid/public_html 3335 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/vincek/public_html 2557 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/myee/public_html 2541 0.000 MB x /home/httpd/pub/vance/public_html 2442 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/robj/unreal/public_html 1990 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/cean/public_html 1842 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/romantsy/public_html 1748 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/bizcafe/public_html 1455 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/edhall/public_html 1419 0.000 MB x /home/httpd/pub/mccanna/public_html 1417 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/cbntmkr/public_html 1331 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/artemis/fatfree/public_html 1207 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/agraps/public_html 1179 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/gobills/public_html 1134 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/malch/public_html 1127 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/ecat/public_html 1104 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/faith/public_html 1072 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/crunch/public_html 1063 0.000 MB x /home/httpd/pub/jh/public_html 1060 0.000 MB x /home/ftpadmin/root/pub/raul/public_html 1000 0.000 MB From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 10:37:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06467 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:37:29 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA06457 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:37:22 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03945; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:31:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511101831.LAA03945@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD To: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:31:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9511101352.AA07120.gonzo@vmicls.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Nov 10, 95 08:52:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 945 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Wouldn't it be just as easy to create a small 60 or so meg partition > > > and just install the development tools. > > > > > you could chroot to a linux partition and run an 'all linux' > > environment while running FreeBSD :) > > > > Not a complaint here, BUT, why would someone want to > compile and run all the LINUX binaries while running FreeBSD ??? > > Seems to me, if you want to run Linux, then run it. Don't emulate it > under FreeBSD. Unless of course, FreeBSD can emulate it faster/better > than Linux can run it(the programs I mean). Actually, with a unified VM/Cache underlying the system call implementation, this is a very real possibility. I'd like to see some benchmarks run Native under Linux and under ABI compatability using a BSD kernel on (hopefulle) a root ext2fs. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 10:37:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06488 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:37:42 -0800 Received: from www.ambook.org (spiders.com [199.224.7.188]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA06456 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:37:21 -0800 Received: (from gwh@localhost) by www.ambook.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA04438; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:39:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199511101839.NAA04438@www.ambook.org> From: gwh@spiders.com (Gene W Homicki) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:39:15 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message as of Nov 10, 9:35 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org, announce@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk +--- | However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely | unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more | data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously | impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but | various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a | link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing | z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. +--- The tough thing is figuring out what the "avaergae" user is doing. We maintain sites that range from html + small graphics only, to sites that use _very_ extensive use of CGI and HTTP authorization. The "macho" factor is also going to be highly dependent of disk controller, and what HDs you are using. +--- | What I'd most ideally like would be some numbers from a site that's to | WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever | I can get! :-) | | Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, | server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. +--- Well, I'm just putting up my FreeBSD (100MHz Pentium/ASUS/NCR SCSI Compex Ether...thanks Rod!) servers this week, on a T1 thats has very little traffic at the moment, so... +--- | If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, | or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a | well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as | many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) | aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server | maintainers busily collect stats on the event? +--- If we do this flag day relatively soon (within the next month or two), I'd be happy to offer a machine and link to pound on (right off the MCI backbone). +--- | can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by | posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like | Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a | FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" | advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially | if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively | impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident | enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! +--- its going to be tough to match exact configurations and network connections, but there is merit in the idea. +--- | So how about it? Any takers? If you're really interested in helping | to further the cause of Spreading The Word, I can assure you that this | would be a significant step in the right direction. I'll also be more | than happy to work with whomever steps forward in drafting a | reasonably provocative-sounding announcement to ensure that people | take up the gauntlet. After all, how much trouble can whapping | "reload" for 5 or so minutes be? :-) +--- if possible we should test for longer than "5min". I think most people are interested in real-wrld numbers and sustained load. Also realize that there are some "web test" type utilties that you can point at your server and pound away at them with (allowing you to set simultaneous number of connections, URLs to hit, etc). Working with one of these, or designing our own benchmarking (that includes CGI testing) could be the way to go if others are interested. I'm more than willing to work with a small group on this in my "copious spare time" (ha ha ha). Seriously, I think the competition is a great idea, no matter what the level of useful results we end up with. :) --Gene -- Gene W. Homicki gwh@spiders.com Objective Consulting, Inc. http://www.spiders.com/ Internet Presence Design voice: +1 914.353.3511 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 10:48:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06858 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:48:40 -0800 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06850 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:48:39 -0800 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199511101848.KAA06850@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:48:38 -0800 (PST) Cc: lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@freebsd.org, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Nov 10, 95 11:15:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2065 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > this program does a very simple thing: > 1) open a file > 2) call write with an invalid address, viz: > write(fd, x, 5); > where x is (void *) 0x40000000 > > it does this as many times as you ask. What it's measuring is correlated > to the raw performance of the system's ability to look up a vm region or > segment or object given a virtual address. It is not a pure measure, > since systems that do a lot of work before checking the arguments > (freebsd) will fare worse than systems that just check the arguments up > front for validity (linux). On the other hand, all the system calls that > happen a lot have to do this operation, so you probably want this type of > thing to be fast. > > Numbers ( i just do wall clock time, since to first order it's all system) > linux, p100, 3.8 seconds > Irix, 150 Mhz. r4600 63 seconds > Solaris, 66 Mhz. sparc-20 68 seconds > FreeBSD, p90 290 seconds > You have found one of FreeBSD's VM's dark secrets!!! Not only does FreeBSD wait for the invalid page fault to occur -- it also creates and destroys the page table page that whould have covered that address!!! That was a design decision to get rid of useless page table pages as quickly as possible. Tell me, what is the best thing to do in this case? My opinion is to make the common case quick -- depend on page faults to handle the exceptional condition. The reason that page-table-pages are freed quickly is that it makes more memory available (and I have some benchmarks that do evil things on the original Mach VM system when you don't free the page table pages :-)). A bit of restucturing could elimination the creation/deletion of the page table page though. (note that page table pages are demand-zeroed -- lots of bzero time!!!) Does this slow things down running real applications? If it does, I'll fix it. This DOES NOT reflect the actual pagefault time however (about 60-90usecs on a 486/66), because of the continual bezeroing the page-table-page. Let me know (anyone) what you think !!! John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 10:49:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06908 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:49:50 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA06902 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:49:43 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03992; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:44:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511101844.LAA03992@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:44:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511101746.MAA22417@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Nov 10, 95 12:46:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 419 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> I've got a '286 MB in the back room that I'll gladly trade for a nice > >> bottle of chianti > > > > how about a six pack of foster's instead of chianti? will that do? > > Oil cans, or bottles? It may be too late for Foster's; he could have already bought the Fava Beans. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 10:54:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA07009 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:54:41 -0800 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA07003 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:54:30 -0800 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA02663; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:50:18 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199511101850.TAA02663@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:50:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: announce@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-NCC-RegID: it.ibenet X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1042 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard (Fri Nov 10 18:35:55 1995): > or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a > well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as > many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) > aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server > maintainers busily collect stats on the event? ... > So how about it? Any takers? If you're really interested in helping ... YES. Around November the 20th we at IBE.NET can put up not one but two servers running FreeBSD for this purpose. We can put one in Europe and one in the USA, both connected by a T1. PS. Rod Grimes: I publicly *swear* I'm doing my best to sort out the mess which happened with your order. Most likely, the two machines will come from you :) Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 10:59:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA07135 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:59:22 -0800 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA07130 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:59:18 -0800 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA05238; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:15 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:13 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, > or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a > well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as > many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) > aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server > maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Someone should have a look at http://www.sgi.com/Products/WebFORCE/WebStone/ and see if this might be a useful tool. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:03:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07288 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:03:32 -0800 Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07271 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:03:28 -0800 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA22714; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:19 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199511101859.NAA22714@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: announce@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3473 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, > > I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a > FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response > "How long is a piece of string?" > > However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely > unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more > data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously > impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but > various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a > link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing > z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. > > The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth > mentioning. > > WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever > I can get! :-) OK , here is some quite impressive stuff: I have here a Web Server ( NCSA 142, slightly patched by me to work with multiple domains ... wasn't able to find the native implementation) which runs about 50 different Web sites now ( on Ip aliases ) , including famous www.jumbo.com. The former gets about ~200.000 hits a day .. lemme see exactly how many hits I have basing on access_log file ( it is exactly 1 day old now): 409059 strings ! It is 2.1.Stable on P-90 PCI/SCSI ( Adaptec 2940) with 64 Mb of RAM. I have 100 httpd processes spawned at the start-up time and 200 max - after that httpd will behave in the old fashioned way, spawing a child per request. The beast in incredibly fast - at least comparing to old NCSA httpd 1.3 . It serves about 2 Gb of html/text files The other data I have on FreeBSD as a server is: I run FreeBSD based PCs as the shell/POP/ftp servers here. Average is about 4000-5000 account per PC. There are usually 300+ processes running on the system at the peak time , about 40-60 users logged in. Load averages range from 0.2 to 2.5 Uptimes are around 50 days - usually I have to reboot server because of some kind of maintenance/HW upgrade before it dies on its own :). I also have a few PCs as news ( INND) and DNS servers. That is completely bullet proof - servers stay up forever :) > Heck, if you need some additional incentive for signing up for such a > mad scheme then might I suggest also putting up some adverts for > whatever service you offer on the page as "live data" (grin) so all > those hundreds (thousands?) of users will also see your advertising in > the process of trying to see how much punishment a FreeBSD WEB server > can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by > posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like > Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a > FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" > advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially > if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively > impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident > enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! > > Either way, it would also generate a lot of publicity for all > concerned (us and the test machine providers) and furnish the FreeBSD > Project with some very valuable data that it doesn't have now. Yes, I think it's possible to use www.jumbo.com with adv. purposes - and everybody is welcome to test how fast it is :) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:03:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07295 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:03:34 -0800 Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07275 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:03:30 -0800 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA22714; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:19 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199511101859.NAA22714@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: announce@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3473 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, > > I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a > FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response > "How long is a piece of string?" > > However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely > unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more > data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously > impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but > various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a > link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing > z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. > > The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth > mentioning. > > WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever > I can get! :-) OK , here is some quite impressive stuff: I have here a Web Server ( NCSA 142, slightly patched by me to work with multiple domains ... wasn't able to find the native implementation) which runs about 50 different Web sites now ( on Ip aliases ) , including famous www.jumbo.com. The former gets about ~200.000 hits a day .. lemme see exactly how many hits I have basing on access_log file ( it is exactly 1 day old now): 409059 strings ! It is 2.1.Stable on P-90 PCI/SCSI ( Adaptec 2940) with 64 Mb of RAM. I have 100 httpd processes spawned at the start-up time and 200 max - after that httpd will behave in the old fashioned way, spawing a child per request. The beast in incredibly fast - at least comparing to old NCSA httpd 1.3 . It serves about 2 Gb of html/text files The other data I have on FreeBSD as a server is: I run FreeBSD based PCs as the shell/POP/ftp servers here. Average is about 4000-5000 account per PC. There are usually 300+ processes running on the system at the peak time , about 40-60 users logged in. Load averages range from 0.2 to 2.5 Uptimes are around 50 days - usually I have to reboot server because of some kind of maintenance/HW upgrade before it dies on its own :). I also have a few PCs as news ( INND) and DNS servers. That is completely bullet proof - servers stay up forever :) > Heck, if you need some additional incentive for signing up for such a > mad scheme then might I suggest also putting up some adverts for > whatever service you offer on the page as "live data" (grin) so all > those hundreds (thousands?) of users will also see your advertising in > the process of trying to see how much punishment a FreeBSD WEB server > can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by > posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like > Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a > FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" > advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially > if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively > impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident > enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! > > Either way, it would also generate a lot of publicity for all > concerned (us and the test machine providers) and furnish the FreeBSD > Project with some very valuable data that it doesn't have now. Yes, I think it's possible to use www.jumbo.com with adv. purposes - and everybody is welcome to test how fast it is :) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:06:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07483 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:06:59 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07476 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:06:56 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04071; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:02:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511101902.MAA04071@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:02:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: announce@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1870 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a > FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response > "How long is a piece of string?" > > However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely > unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more > data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously > impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but > various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a > link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing > z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. > > The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth > mentioning. If the httpd is started from inetd, then the limit is dictated by no more than 256 requests in any 60 second period, unless you override this at inetd startup time by increasing the number of requests allowed per 60 seconds using a -R when you start it in the rc file. If you don't override this, your test will fail in short order with "server failing (looping), service terminated". You can kill most BSD inetd based FTP servers this way now, actually, using a -d 0 on an ncftp retry when the server is already loaded. I saw ftp.mv.com go down the other day when an associate stupidly kicked the retry delay to 0. By default, it takes 10 minutes for the thing to reset and start serving connection requests again (#define RETRYTIME (60*10) in inetd.c). I first saw this problem with a machine tftp serving fonts, color tables, and configuration files to a very large number of X terminals back in the 1.x days, and posted the equivalent of the '-R' option addition at that time. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:07:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07527 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:07:22 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07478 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:06:57 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04071; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:02:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511101902.MAA04071@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:02:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: announce@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1870 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a > FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response > "How long is a piece of string?" > > However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely > unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more > data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously > impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but > various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a > link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing > z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. > > The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth > mentioning. If the httpd is started from inetd, then the limit is dictated by no more than 256 requests in any 60 second period, unless you override this at inetd startup time by increasing the number of requests allowed per 60 seconds using a -R when you start it in the rc file. If you don't override this, your test will fail in short order with "server failing (looping), service terminated". You can kill most BSD inetd based FTP servers this way now, actually, using a -d 0 on an ncftp retry when the server is already loaded. I saw ftp.mv.com go down the other day when an associate stupidly kicked the retry delay to 0. By default, it takes 10 minutes for the thing to reset and start serving connection requests again (#define RETRYTIME (60*10) in inetd.c). I first saw this problem with a machine tftp serving fonts, color tables, and configuration files to a very large number of X terminals back in the 1.x days, and posted the equivalent of the '-R' option addition at that time. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:16:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07745 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:16:07 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07739 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:16:02 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA06198; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:14:57 -0800 To: piero@strider.ibenet.it cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:50:17 +0100." <199511101850.TAA02663@strider.ibenet.it> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:14:57 -0800 Message-ID: <6196.816030897@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > YES. Around November the 20th we at IBE.NET can put up not one > but two servers running FreeBSD for this purpose. > We can put one in Europe and one in the USA, both connected by a T1. OK. Well, Jaye has already volunteered one of his own machines, also on a T1. However, he's running the netscape commerce server on his so it strikes me that we could do this as a larger test, sort of like a chili contest.. :-) We have `n' machines, each chosen to represent some demographic in the W3 world. Right now I see this as: o #1 - Jaye: Represents what you can do with a real commercial transaction server (netscape). Maybe even put up some secure pages to give it a good test. This will make the commercial folks feel good since they're seeing the actual software under test that they themselves would be using and won't be quick to dismiss the Apache test results as inapplicable to them. o #2 - Piero-US: Represent what you can put together with entirely free components (Apache?). o #3 - Piero-EU: Same as #2 but so the Europeans can participate in the test too. We run the test for a 24/48/72 hour period, whichever you folks think is best or can stand, after which each machine's stats are collated and put together into a large report which is distributed widely. This could really be an event, if we handle it right. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:20:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07833 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:20:24 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07818 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:19:52 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04103; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:14:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511101914.MAA04103@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:14:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Nov 10, 95 11:15:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2476 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > this program does a very simple thing: > 1) open a file > 2) call write with an invalid address, viz: > write(fd, x, 5); > where x is (void *) 0x40000000 > > it does this as many times as you ask. What it's measuring is correlated > to the raw performance of the system's ability to look up a vm region or > segment or object given a virtual address. It is not a pure measure, > since systems that do a lot of work before checking the arguments > (freebsd) will fare worse than systems that just check the arguments up > front for validity (linux). On the other hand, all the system calls that > happen a lot have to do this operation, so you probably want this type of > thing to be fast. I'm sorry for the tone of what follows, but this is a stupid benchmark. On a kernel multithreaded system, and moreso in the case of SMP, prechecking opens a nice window unless you combine it with a reservation mechanism on the order of the mechanism employed by the VFS system in FreeBSD, but applied to memory ranges. Linux does prechecking and they have SMP and kernel multithreading, which leads to some nice races through which you can get system priveledges. This is basically the same race you use to bust security on an NT system, since it does the same type of prechecking without reservation. Clearly, these people do not understand multithreading sufficiently. I'm an advocate of prechecking before doing the operation in BSD, but without concommitant changes for establishing a reservation in the case of a non-failure and some mechanism for giving up the reservation in case of a different failure (the same type of layering problem the VFS currently has with cn_pnbuf), there's no way that prechecking can be considered a win. So in Linux, it's a loss on security, even if it is a win on time. And once the security issues are addressed, the "win" will be more expensive on successful operations. Any benchmark that promotes optimization of failure cases is critically flawed, and anyone who then spends time to get a better score on that benchmark silly in the extreme. You must have explicitly turned off SIGSEGV and SIGBUS in order to perform these tests. One wonders how much of your time is spent in the sigtrampoline code: another case of a failure path requiring optimization to better the score. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:24:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07921 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:24:47 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07916 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:24:44 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA24579; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:21:28 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511101921.NAA24579@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: I/O woes. To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:21:28 -0600 (CST) Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au, geoff@schwing.ginsu.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511101833.LAA03954@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 10, 95 11:33:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > 1) you should ALWAYS use hardware flow control unless you have a REALLY good > > > reason not to. REALLY good, as in, the device you are talking to doesn't > > > support it. > > > > That's the ONLY reason not to. > > What if you wanted to type ^C and have the output actually abort > (as requested via a real time event) instead of waiting until the > flow controlled buffers in the intermediate path drain before > actually stopping? Unless you have a slow modem, this isn't going to be a Real Big Issue for most people. Even with a 2K on-board buffer, a 14.4K modem will appear to respond to a ^C in about a second. As someone who used to do a lot of "playing" in this area, when 300 and 1200 baud modems were new and cool, I will state that it's a real pain in the rump for a number of reasons: 1) you cannot get ANY sort of compression out of the modem, and are therefore limited to your default speed. 2) you cannot use error correction, because error correction will potentially introduce delays and cause the modem to buffer data. 3) well, I think 1 and 2 are bad enough. Now, of course, you can make special cases until you're blue in the face. I can too. But: for the average user, running interactive logins, UUCP, SLIP/PPP, or file transfers over a 9600-baud-or-faster link, you're really going to want to use hardware handshaking and allow the modem to do compression and error correction. For the average user running at 1200 baud on a laptop (i.e. me at home), there is a minor amount of suffering through a few seconds of buffered data if you really want it to stop. You gotta do it this way for most apps. Else we might as well go back to the days of dumb modems that did nothing but modulate and demodulate. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:38:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA08218 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:38:29 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA08205 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:38:15 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04151; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:32:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511101932.MAA04151@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:32:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu In-Reply-To: <199511101848.KAA06850@freefall.freebsd.org> from "John Dyson" at Nov 10, 95 10:48:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3677 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Some issues brought to light by the otherwise inane failure case optimization requirements of this benchmark... > You have found one of FreeBSD's VM's dark secrets!!! Not only does > FreeBSD wait for the invalid page fault to occur -- it also creates and > destroys the page table page that whould have covered that address!!! > That was a design decision to get rid of useless page table pages as > quickly as possible. Tell me, what is the best thing to do in this > case? > > My opinion is to make the common case quick -- depend on page faults > to handle the exceptional condition. The reason that page-table-pages > are freed quickly is that it makes more memory available (and I have > some benchmarks that do evil things on the original Mach VM system when > you don't free the page table pages :-)). A bit of restucturing could > elimination the creation/deletion of the page table page though. (note that > page table pages are demand-zeroed -- lots of bzero time!!!) > > Does this slow things down running real applications? If it does, I'll > fix it. This DOES NOT reflect the actual pagefault time however (about > 60-90usecs on a 486/66), because of the continual bezeroing the > page-table-page. Let me know (anyone) what you think !!! The issue of the extraneous create/delete is an interesting one; it should probably be recoded as you suggested on general principles, NOT in response to this "benchmark". The issue of bzero has to do with table usage. It may in fact be a general hit. That it would show up as a component of the time in this benchmark is not sufficient to be a saving grace: the benchmark is *still* bogus. I'd like to have a more formal documentation of the the VM system before launching into a full blown discussion of the issues involved (such a document would help immensely in porting efforts as well). But lacking that, I will say that a bitmap of the initialized page table entries might be sufficient to allow you to demand-zero them on a per entry basis instead of bzeroing the whole thing at once. The question to be answered here is when is the hit taken, and is it in a critical path, and is the table zero assumption made implictly by the access mechanism (hash, whatever). In other words, does anyone other than the intended user assume that the thing is initially zeroed, and if so, what is the cost of hitting the bitmap first. If the per entry zero is critical path as well, then unless you can preallocate, then it'd probably a worse hit to set up multiple zeroing's of small ranges than zeroing all of it at once at the time the thing is allocated. I guess this would depend on how full your average page table ends up being relative to the setup costs times the number of entries in the table. It may be better to consider the tabled in terms of zones, then pre-reserve entries outside the critical path. Or even agregate them so that the process can be mapped into the kernel space when active (this presents its own problems) and do *all* of the "checking" by way of faults (would require a 486 or better in all cases, so you'd have to retrofit the 386 anyway). I think this is probably overboard, since Linux uses non-agregated mapping of the process into the kernel address space. If that's the target to beat, agregation will probably be more expensive than it's worth. I would strongly advise *against* adopting the Linux process and kernel mapping model just to score big on what is after all a bogus measurement of system capability. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:39:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA08243 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:39:00 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA08238 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:38:51 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id OAA25164; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:41:03 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA18650; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:41:01 +0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:41:01 +0500 Message-Id: <9511101941.AA18650.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: gfoster@gfoster.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Samba problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 1218 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Do you have a TCP/IP stack on the WfW machine? I have had problems > with some Winsocks, most notably Microsoft's 16 bit one. Yes, which ever WFW 3.11 comes with. > > Some WfW's want passwords to be all CAPS (numerals are OK too). > > What sharename are you using to connect with? It should be > \\FQDN\login (FQDN == Fully Qualified Domain Name, login == your login > name) to get to your home directory. \\GQDN\homes is not a valid > sharename. share name is '\\antares\home' and also tried '\\antares.vmicls.com\home' Both get 'computer name or share name in the specified path is invalid' > > Can you connect to publically available LM servers on the Internet > (e.g. \\ftp.microsoft.com\ftp)? NOP.. Maybe WFW is broke and NOT Samba. ????? > > Your smb.conf file looks OK. This is good. > > I will be happy to try to help you if these don't work, please let me > know exactly what error message WfW is giving you. see above. A little more detail. M1 is a Sparc server 1000. I can use smbclient on it to access P1. P1 is a Pentium FreeBSD 2.0.5. I can use smbclient on it to access M1. D1 is a WFW 3.11 486. It can access Samba on M1 but NOT on P1. This give any insight ???? Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:44:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA08404 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:44:20 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA08376 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:43:00 -0800 Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA25453; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:41:28 -0500 Received: by section05 (5.x/SECTION05-Client) id AA14641; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:40:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:40:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Terry Lambert Cc: lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) In-Reply-To: <199511101914.MAA04103@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk terry, you make some interesting points. I'm curious about one comment though: > You must have explicitly turned off SIGSEGV and SIGBUS in order to > perform these tests. One wonders how much of your time is spent in > the sigtrampoline code: another case of a failure path requiring > optimization to better the score. did you read the code? I appended it to the end of the message. It's fairly simple. ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 11:58:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA08850 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:58:15 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA08842 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:58:06 -0800 Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA25476; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:56:26 -0500 Received: by section05 (5.x/SECTION05-Client) id AA14703; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:55:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:55:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Terry Lambert Cc: John Dyson , lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) In-Reply-To: <199511101932.MAA04151@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ok, i'll try to explain it once again for some folks who don't seem to read either the complete message or the code attached. 1) this is measuring something i need to measure for work i'm doing 2) the numbers surprise me 3) i thought it might or might not make a performance measure, but was not sure. I pointed out it was not a "pure" measurement of lookup time, but was correlated with it. I didn't realize how pathological BSD behavior was in this one case, and yes I agree this is NOT A COMMON CASE, OK? I can see why so many people get sick of the bsd discussion lists: grown-ups seem to be in short supply. For the record, solaris is 4x the bsd performance in this case. What's interesting is 1) solaris has a far better vm archictecture than *bsd or linux (i've been able to accomplish things via sunos 4/solaris kernel that bsd can not even approach doing) 2) solaris does indeed run on smp's, and *bsd does not I don't know how that squares with some of the earlier comments. I'm sure that the god-like beings on this list won't hesitate to tell me :-) ron Ron Minnich |Like a knife through Daddy's heart: rminnich@sarnoff.com |"Don't make fun of Windows, daddy! It takes care (609)-734-3120 | of all my files and it's reliable and I like it". From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 12:07:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA09034 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:07:13 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09029 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:06:59 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04221; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:58:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511101958.MAA04221@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: I/O woes. To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:58:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, imb@scgt.oz.au, geoff@schwing.ginsu.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511101921.NAA24579@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Nov 10, 95 01:21:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3907 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > As someone who used to do a lot of "playing" in this area, when 300 and 1200 > baud modems were new and cool, I will state that it's a real pain in the > rump for a number of reasons: Well, back when I started, you had to punch your bits out of paper tape, throw them in a box, and *drive* them to the machine. 8-). > 1) you cannot get ANY sort of compression out of the modem, and are > therefore limited to your default speed. I'd call this your "committed data rate". Actually, I first started hating flow control when DEC introduced the VT3xx series of terminals using a soft-coded state machine. Without flow control, the damn things could barely keep up with 9600 baud. But you could set the port speed all the way op there. DEC was using flow control so that they could lie to me about the actual data rate their terminal could support. I've always been a fan of host compression. Modem based compression schemes make the modem<->computer interface the speed bottleneck. If I can get 2:1 compression on my host, I can pump twice as much data through as my port rate allows instead of being limited by my port rate and having the modem pump twice as much as the phone line allows. Mostly modem compression serves to piss people off. When MNP first came out, people like Multitech were lowballing the Microcom modems by forcing the in band flow control on if MNP was enabled so they could cheap out on the buffer RAM needed to support MNP and make their modems cost less. Royal pain in the ass if you tried to transfer binary data. Apple saw this bottleneck, and even today, the compression and encapsulation is built into the protocol stack in the host instead of the modem for their remote access product. > 2) you cannot use error correction, because error correction will > potentially introduce delays and cause the modem to buffer data. Actually, I'm more concerned about pool size for pool retention under compression. The compression is what really bloats this. I have no real problem with out of band flow control (well, except that most UNIX systems implement it incorrectly -- I can still hang serial ports under SunOS 4.1.3_u2 using it) as long as the pool is relatively small and therefore innocuous. This is actually sufficient for error correction -- assuming you don't put that on the host too (suprise! Just like PostScript in the host reducing printer cost, compression and error correction in the host reduce modem cost!). Actually, for a sliding window protocol, as long as there is enough RAM in the modem to cover the entire window, flow control can be handled in the protocol implementation in the host with no problems. > 3) well, I think 1 and 2 are bad enough. 8-). > Now, of course, you can make special cases until you're blue in the face. I > can too. But: for the average user, running interactive logins, UUCP, > SLIP/PPP, or file transfers over a 9600-baud-or-faster link, you're really > going to want to use hardware handshaking and allow the modem to do > compression and error correction. For the average user running at 1200 > baud on a laptop (i.e. me at home), there is a minor amount of suffering > through a few seconds of buffered data if you really want it to stop. You > gotta do it this way for most apps. Else we might as well go back to the > days of dumb modems that did nothing but modulate and demodulate. I actually refer to those as "the good old days". 8-). I think you are missing out on some now overlooked techniques, such as Mike Ballard's (remember Telebit?) protocol spoofing, etc.. Just because a lot of bad things have now become standards doesn't mean that they are good or that we shouldn't work to change them whenever an opportunity presents itself. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 12:11:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA09154 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:11:01 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09145 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:10:55 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04257; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:04:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511102004.NAA04257@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:04:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Nov 10, 95 02:40:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 958 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > terry, you make some interesting points. I'm curious about one comment > though: > > > You must have explicitly turned off SIGSEGV and SIGBUS in order to > > perform these tests. One wonders how much of your time is spent in > > the sigtrampoline code: another case of a failure path requiring > > optimization to better the score. > > did you read the code? I appended it to the end of the message. It's > fairly simple. Ah. Sorry. I only read the technical decription. I've now gone back and read the code. The EFAULT return saves you. I'd actually hope that programs that got this kind of error would be murdered by the OS. Code that didn't check its return values in the face of such an error shouldn't be allowed to continue running. Bad moral convictions on the part of POSIX. 8-(. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 12:11:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA09202 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:11:41 -0800 Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09197 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:11:34 -0800 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA22863; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:25:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:25:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199511102025.PAA22863@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> I've got a '286 MB in the back room that I'll gladly trade for a nice >> >> bottle of chianti >> > >> > how about a six pack of foster's instead of chianti? will that do? >> >> Oil cans, or bottles? > >It may be too late for Foster's; he could have already bought the Fava Beans. Personally, I prefer Bass Ale. Any Brits out there? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 12:29:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA09481 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:29:00 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09476 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:28:54 -0800 Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA25604; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:27:15 -0500 Received: by section05 (5.x/SECTION05-Client) id AA14814; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:26:45 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:26:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Terry Lambert Cc: lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) In-Reply-To: <199511102004.NAA04257@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd actually hope that programs that got this kind of error would be > murdered by the OS. Code that didn't check its return values in > the face of such an error shouldn't be allowed to continue running. We tried this program on windows/nt and it got killed. But for an interesting reason: the posix subsystem on nt is a library, not the kernel server that the books lead you to believe it is. So the posix library does a load from the bogus pointer and dies. But here's the $9K question: how do you decide it's not checking return values, and what return values should you require be checked and which shouldn't? i'm not convinced that's a decision the os should make. ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 12:44:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA09802 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:44:49 -0800 Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (root@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09797 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:44:46 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id JAA10892; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:53:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199511101753.JAA10892@netcom22.netcom.com> To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: Larry McVoy , hackers@freebsd.org, "William A. Arbaugh" , Theo de Raadt , Chuck Cranor Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:15:34 EST." Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 09:53:31 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What count did you use to get these numbers? Running it on a SUN 3/50 with SunOS3.5 yields about 1 ms/write(); not bad considering the syscall overhead! On a 25Mhz 486 running NetBSD-1.1A I get about 17ms/call (wall clock). But system time is only about 1.3ms/call. Also, there was a lot of disk activity. On a 100MHZ P5 running FreeBSD-2.1 I get 0.287ms/call and system time was also about the same. > but i'm not sure why freebsd has to be so slow. I'm willing to blame it > on the mach vm, since it has been such a problem in so many other ways. For the {Free,Net}BSD case you seem to be measuring something totally different from the rest that do arg checking upfront. In the latter case you are measuring time to reject an invalid write() syscall. I don't see what system parameter your benchmark measures (other than pointing out if arg checking is done early or late). Since all syscall args need to be checked sooner or later, they may as well get checked upfront. > For some work i'm doing it is measuring an important value however. What parameter are you trying to measure? Hmm... perhaps you are mapping in pages when you discover an invalid address? --bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:06:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA10271 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:06:57 -0800 Received: from terra.stack.urc.tue.nl (terra.stack.urc.tue.nl [131.155.140.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10264 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:06:51 -0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by terra.stack.urc.tue.nl (8.6.11) with UUCP id WAA29818 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:06:43 +0100 Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA22075 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:22:26 +0100 From: FreeBSD matters of Mark Huizer (xaa) Message-Id: <199511102022.VAA22075@xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:22:24 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am Reply-To: xaa@stack.urc.tue.nl (Mark Huizer) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 378 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth > mentioning. Data is easy to get. I don't think we have any logs left from the time some user wanted to have a porno-www site on our www-server, but I can tell you it'll show you what a machine can have. (our's thought it was way too much when we sent 1 Gb per day to the USA in only a few hours time) > Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:07:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA10358 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:07:52 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10326 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:07:25 -0800 Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA25768; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:05:45 -0500 Received: by section05 (5.x/SECTION05-Client) id AA14905; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:05:15 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:05:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Bakul Shah Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Why i care about the rate of EFAULT from write(2) and friends In-Reply-To: <199511101753.JAA10892@netcom22.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > What parameter are you trying to measure? Hmm... perhaps > you are mapping in pages when you discover an invalid > address? You got it! But the io for the pages is done from user mode. I'm building an atm card which allows user-mode programs (more than one at a time unlike Myrinet or the SP/2 EUIH) to format a message and shove it out the door in under 5 microseconds, with a media speed of 1.2 Gbps. To achieve real performance on this card the software time needs to be held low. SO i decided to check a simple question: how fast can the kernel determine that a user i/o space is invalid and transfer control to a user-mode program which will send a message to a server? Until now i've used MNFS for this, but the problem is that MNFS makes its decisions at the end of a long, drawn-out process that involves the VM, the VFS, SunRPC, SunXDR, ad nauseum. Too slow. Turns out that in the linux universe I can make comparable decisions and get out to the atm card in under 10 microseconds. I plan to write this up for the upcoming free software conference. The software is trivial. BTW due to the way this works none of Terry's earlier comments have any applicability whatsoever. Which means that the program is not a general-purpose benchmark, but serves as an essential measure of performance for the purposes of this application. One more comment: i've left a lot out. So please folks, don't start telling me how stupid i am. You can disagree, but i'd appreciate you doing it politely. Lack of civility has already led to lots of problems in the bsd community, as well as the departure of some very good people for the linux world. Good manners are in short supply. Try to build up the stocks. BTW bakul unless i misread your message you are saying that a 3/60 takes about 1 ms/iteration for this benchmark. I have no problem believing that. The linux box takes 10 microseconds, i.e. it's 100 times faster. ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:12:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA10430 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:12:36 -0800 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10422 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:12:31 -0800 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id QAA03368; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:14:25 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA21116; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:14:23 +0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:14:23 +0500 Message-Id: <9511102114.AA21116.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: PS 1 Systems and FreeBSD X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 64 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know if FreeBSD will run on a PS-1 486 ??? Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:21:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA10633 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:21:07 -0800 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10624 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:20:56 -0800 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA03148; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:16:21 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199511102116.WAA03148@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:16:20 +0100 (MET) Cc: piero@strider.ibenet.it, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6196.816030897@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 11:14:57 am Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-NCC-RegID: it.ibenet X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1379 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard (Fri Nov 10 20:14:57 1995): > o #1 - Jaye: Represents what you can do with a real commercial > o #2 - Piero-US: Represent what you can put together with entirely > free components (Apache?). Yes. I was thinking about 0.6.5 rather than 0.8.14 Any suggestion here? Experience with 0.8.14? > o #3 - Piero-EU: Same as #2 but so the Europeans can participate > > We run the test for a 24/48/72 hour period, whichever you folks think > is best or can stand, after which each machine's stats are collated > and put together into a large report which is distributed widely. > > This could really be an event, if we handle it right. We can also test the 2 'Piero' machines as proxies, proxying each other (they are at the two ends of an intercontinental line between Europe and the USA). We should be able to arrange with Sprint the full routing by the end of this month (this is one of the reasons why I'd like to run the test at the end of November). All people interested in the setup of the machines, etc, can join w3test@ibenet.it by sending e-mail to me (no automatic daemon, sorry). Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:28:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA10733 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:28:03 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10724 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:27:54 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA13009; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:24:39 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511102124.VAA13009@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:24:38 +0000 () Cc: announce@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1791 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely > unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more > data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously > impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but > various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a > link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing > z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. > > The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth > mentioning. Brian Tao's benchmarks (700K+ hits per day) are a good opener when talking to commercial vendors that think that 10K/hour is "heavy". A little while ago we had someone here with a problem where they were peaking at 100/sec but falling off to 70/sec until update ran. I haven't heard any more since then on that one. I realise that neither of these are 'real-world' cases. > If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, > or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a > well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as > many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) > aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server > maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Do a 'dry run' first 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:28:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA10732 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:28:03 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10720 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:27:53 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA13009; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:24:39 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511102124.VAA13009@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:24:38 +0000 () Cc: announce@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1791 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely > unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more > data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously > impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but > various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a > link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing > z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. > > The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth > mentioning. Brian Tao's benchmarks (700K+ hits per day) are a good opener when talking to commercial vendors that think that 10K/hour is "heavy". A little while ago we had someone here with a problem where they were peaking at 100/sec but falling off to 70/sec until update ran. I haven't heard any more since then on that one. I realise that neither of these are 'real-world' cases. > If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, > or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a > well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as > many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) > aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server > maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Do a 'dry run' first 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:33:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA10985 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:33:55 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10980 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:33:51 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA22355 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:33:35 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04513; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:26:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511102126.OAA04513@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:26:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Nov 10, 95 03:26:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2162 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'd actually hope that programs that got this kind of error would be > > murdered by the OS. Code that didn't check its return values in > > the face of such an error shouldn't be allowed to continue running. > > We tried this program on windows/nt and it got killed. But for an > interesting reason: the posix subsystem on nt is a library, not the > kernel server that the books lead you to believe it is. So the posix > library does a load from the bogus pointer and dies. > > But here's the $9K question: how do you decide it's not checking return > values, and what return values should you require be checked and which > shouldn't? i'm not convinced that's a decision the os should make. Well, you *can't* tell that it's not checking the return values. Unless the return is by way of a signal mechanism, which if it isn't checking, will force image termination. The question is one of the philosophy of when you can get an EFAULT return, what does it mean. When a program does a read(2) or write(2) or whatever and gets this error, the call has been passed a bogus argument. You have to wonder under what expectable operating conditions a bogus argument could possibly be passed, and then recovered from successfully by anything other than a shutdown. A shutdown of the process could be handled equally well by a fault handler. So maybe the cheap answer to the question is you do enforcement wherever doing enforcement is practically free or even less expensive than the alternative. It's actually more expensive to return EFAULT and expect the program to recover than it would be to signal the program. For all intents and purposes, fatal error paths are free. They only ever get executed in the case that the error is unrecoverable. In the read EFAULT case, the system can't recover by putting the data elsewhere, etc.. I'm now really, really interested in what the heck you are doing that passes bogus values to read, but it's programatically OK for it to pass them?!? 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:37:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA11105 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:37:06 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA11099 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:37:00 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA01192; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:36:46 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511102136.NAA01192@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD To: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:36:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9511101352.AA07120.gonzo@vmicls.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Nov 10, 95 08:52:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1372 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Thu Nov 9 17:19:06 1995 > > From: Julian Elischer > > Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD > > To: mjb@siva.apana.org.au (Marcus Barczak) > > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:00:56 -0800 (PST) > > Cc: apana-lists-os-freebsd-hackers@apana.org.au > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be just as easy to create a small 60 or so meg partition > > > and just install the development tools. > > > > > you could chroot to a linux partition and run an 'all linux' > > environment while running FreeBSD :) > > > > Not a complaint here, BUT, why would someone want to > compile and run all the LINUX binaries while running FreeBSD ??? > > Seems to me, if you want to run Linux, then run it. Don't emulate it > under FreeBSD. Unless of course, FreeBSD can emulate it faster/better > than Linux can run it(the programs I mean). If you onlty have one machine but want to compile for both linux and freeBSD, and you can't affort to reboot your machine (i.e. it's your mailserver etc.) then it makes sense it have one xterm in 'normal space' and one in 'linux space' where 'linux space' is a ext2fs partition(or bsd part), populated with linux binaries, and chroot'd to.. certainly good for comparing how differnt tools act, checking out the differences in the man pages, etc. etc. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:38:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA11202 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:38:19 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA11196 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:38:13 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA13025; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:34:42 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511102134.VAA13025@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:34:42 +0000 () Cc: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19045.816013401@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 06:23:21 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1296 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > Not a complaint here, BUT, why would someone want to > > compile and run all the LINUX binaries while running FreeBSD ??? > > I don't think there are many good reasons. In fact, I'll run the risk > of offending a few people by saying that it'd be downright stupid. As the original poster has already explained, the intention is to use the single machine (the only one available to them) for simultaneous cross- platform development and testing. To me, this sounds quite reasonable; along the lines of the not inconsiderable number of DOS and Windows developers who use OS/2 as their preferred development and testing platform. > general populace. Being able to run things like Linux Wingz, > WordPerfect or the Caldera desktop - now THAT makes sense. I still haven't been able to find that pestiferous WP demo. Does anyone have a URL for it? > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:45:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA11856 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:45:17 -0800 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA11690 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:43:45 -0800 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA27021 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:42:32 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA00461 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:52:37 -0600 Message-Id: <199511102152.PAA00461@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: the vnode driver as an lkm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed ; boundary="===_0_Fri_Nov_10_15:52:25_CST_1995" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:52:37 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This is a multipart MIME message. --===_0_Fri_Nov_10_15:52:25_CST_1995 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The following patch/makefile will allow the vnode driver to be loaded as an lkm but it cannot be unloaded. could someone shed some light as to why? eric. --===_0_Fri_Nov_10_15:52:25_CST_1995 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: vn-lkm.tgz Content-Transfer-Encoding: x-uuencode begin 644 vn-lkm.tgz M'XL(```````"`^U66W/:1A3F5?H59X(?!`%=D`0QKC-U?&F9V-ACDKRT'49> M+=8&L6*D%<3UI+^]9W4!XS3.2YUI,_N-D';/^7;/T;FL6'&K\=P`SQ[X/C0` MX?;+)PRJ9P$;H&_[]L#S/,>12J]G-\!O?`?DF0A2@`9-&8F>X-TPWO@!L>+6 M13"G,Q;39[/AV';?\[Z>_[Y;Y]_M]>T>@.,XKML`6^7_V='4FU`7`,R2%%8\ M"2G$\X6NFU='[WX=;KMT[]X\?G]],KK^;)FFO+*[S`KIREIQ_>W%Y0D\P"%N M-%TDH3ZY/IX\5IBD-#-E,S.2\T@?7UXC,9IZN-"27EU-3M^?7$[/ MWUX_;'=_>0C=D2E_&^_TX_/3H_'9Z/QT4E/V#.EK:]>#:DA*9W1Y M'^J:1DF4P(MFB.'A%,8?QM![`:]A[V=)J9XR$$\6_[_?_YMS`*#G]MW-^=_S/=G_ONO_ MQ_K_6_K_*=KM-FS;V)*]^9'+@[V]WV]V^T^9FMG*2O( MC@V./_1>#?$$+\CM7<@Y[/<[CNU`,9>;R7EO`#CLZ@!UHWTX>3,=76J:_F48A:C=:AT@JSHD)J?OC)K407JA MVVZ2B30G`F[P;;(UJJO!(=PC!^2IL*1QRG- MJ)`BW%,D0MR5W(S&:)1*Q6(1+!\Z7SN'E]66Y#:(B&6014D>AW!#@?$BR\Q] MU2]O).%X.%;<1%)0DC%\/2Y@S42$.^"RV53D7'X[S()JE4::;%9$A'X2>/P! M^CD55;0/OA232MRD<4;Q6&XV.8BWS6!+)+\-R:4)4/^K*I M,*3GG`D#B2TMG&_&LL:VI%LJT&X^,UK:[_]8S8YK=QS7WY:SXV,]#[RZGAF7 MCF%^2$K#LDJK4L"/8Y;,!('V"A-?"?."UI9W6<905+G<(,I%F*SYMLYWU"2F M>()];??6HZ*7BW!6MX6!E;NX:Z%$*QNHF,LE]^4RK:@1#1,_XD""C,*:0I#B MCP-^A-%YBIXO91H8H9!A-9#(+)?(`M#*KOIM$7Q,4J/,8^N/XF]`J9&V-+)+ M(EL2V9!DW98)PKC*UR_;Q2@K!^\=J8!9'-QFY1`_IG03W66:8$"6+;VAH*"@ BH*"@H*"@H*"@H*"@H*"@H*"@H*"@H/"CXF^7KI#;`"@``&6: ` end --===_0_Fri_Nov_10_15:52:25_CST_1995 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com --===_0_Fri_Nov_10_15:52:25_CST_1995-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:48:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA12105 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:48:18 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA12079 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:47:55 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA27610; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:43:30 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA17176; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:43:29 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA07340; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:41:45 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511102141.WAA07340@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: vnconfig question. To: fn@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (Faried Nawaz) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:41:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511101022.CAA10981@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu> from "Faried Nawaz" at Nov 10, 95 02:22:21 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 356 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Faried Nawaz wrote: > > does it make sense to change vnconfig to automatically adjust the > permissions of a vnode file upon configuring, or to warn the user? Perhaps warn, but not change. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:49:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA12241 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:49:22 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA11999 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:46:46 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04574; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:38:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511102138.OAA04574@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:38:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: rminnich@sarnoff.com, lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu In-Reply-To: <199511101753.JAA10892@netcom22.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Nov 10, 95 09:53:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 986 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I don't see what system parameter your benchmark measures > (other than pointing out if arg checking is done early or > late). Since all syscall args need to be checked sooner or > later, they may as well get checked upfront. I'll agree with this, and Ron's test has made the issue more obvious, even if I don't agree with the premise. I've actually argued this before. The problem is that the check must, in the success case, cause a reservation so that the mapping is not allowed to change between the time that the assertion succeeds and the copy takes place. This introduces its own issues, since because you might be doing multiple copies (yeah, I know, you should assemble a local buffer representation of the user space buffer and copy that instead), you can't simply imply the reservation is released like the VFS does with leases. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 13:53:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA12533 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:53:06 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA12503 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:52:54 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA22499 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:50:24 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04612; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:44:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511102144.OAA04612@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:44:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 9, 95 09:04:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1076 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > At 8:40 PM 11/9/95, Terry Lambert wrote: > >Like putting them in a "tools" dir at the same level as the kern and > >compile and arch specific directories. > > I certainly have no problem with that location in src/ > Now I'll throw in the "ringer". gcc and make are also "tools". I think I can safely argue that you're not allowed to include them because they aren't allowed to change as frequently as the config program. 8-). Not that the config program should be allowed to change as fast as it has without providing guarantees re: backward compatability. > >Right. But I can't use it because using it entails murdering the one > >for the current system (ie: installing it). > > That's because the present make system is EVIL, CORRUPT, and should be > ERATICATED. Anybody who builds on top of the running system is like the > proverbial guy out on the limb with saw in hand sawing between himself and > the trunk. Aha! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 14:20:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA13820 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:20:39 -0800 Received: from spooky.apana.org.au (spooky.apana.org.au [203.3.126.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA13807 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:20:26 -0800 Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.apana.org.au (8.6.10/8.6.9) id IAA05172 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:20:41 +1000 From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199511102220.IAA05172@spooky.apana.org.au> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:20:41 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 09:35:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 634 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, > or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a > well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as > many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) > aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server > maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Just put up a message in alt.sex.pictures that there is a new site worth looking at an maybe put up a couple of swimsuit soft porn pictures and it will be flodded within 24 hours from all parts of the world. - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 14:22:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA13970 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:22:28 -0800 Received: from gandalf.me.ksu.edu (root@gandalf.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA13965 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:22:23 -0800 Received: from bilbo.me.ksu.edu (joed@bilbo.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.87]) by gandalf.me.ksu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA28474; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:22:05 -0600 Received: (from joed@localhost) by bilbo.me.ksu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA04036; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:19:46 -0600 From: Joe Diehl Message-Id: <199511102219.QAA04036@bilbo.me.ksu.edu> Subject: Re: The tree will be tagged for 2.1.0-RELEASE on 9 Nov 1995, 23:00 PST To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:19:46 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11221.815831724@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 8, 95 03:55:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 536 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Barring any last minute delays, the scheduled time for tagging the > tree for 2.1.0-RELEASE will be the 9th of November, one hour (give or > take a few) before midnight Pacific Standard Time. > I was under the impression that this means the software will be released at the above listed time. Did I misunderstand that? Or was it postponed? Are there any estimates as to when it will be released? Thanks... ;-) --- Joe Diehl Engineering Computing Center Kansas State University From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 14:37:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA14865 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:37:48 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14858 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:37:45 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA01342; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:37:19 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511102237.OAA01342@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:37:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, waa@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, deraadt@theos.com, chuck@maria.wustl.edu In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Nov 10, 95 02:55:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2090 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Ok, i'll try to explain it once again for some folks who don't seem to > read either the complete message or the code attached. > 1) this is measuring something i need to measure for work i'm doing > 2) the numbers surprise me > 3) i thought it might or might not make a performance measure, but > was not sure. I pointed out it was not a "pure" measurement > of lookup time, but was correlated with it. I didn't realize how > pathological BSD behavior was in this one case, and yes I agree > this is NOT A COMMON CASE, OK? > > I can see why so many people get sick of the bsd discussion lists: > grown-ups seem to be in short supply. hey that's not fare! I think john's answer is very valid and I think the questions regarding why you think this is an important thing to measure are valid.. I would have considered "time to detect AND HANDLE an erroneous syscall" one of the least importand times.. As this is important thing for you, I'm naturally curious of the application that needs this, because I'm trying to work out whether I need to re-evaluate my priorities in this... > > For the record, solaris is 4x the bsd performance in this case. What's > interesting is > 1) solaris has a far better vm archictecture than *bsd or linux (i've > been able to accomplish things via sunos 4/solaris kernel that bsd can not > even approach doing) such as what? (not saying you haven't,.. I just am really curious about WHAT.) > 2) solaris does indeed run on smp's, and *bsd does not yes but the vm system is not the hold-up.. it's been designed with that in mind.. > > I don't know how that squares with some of the earlier comments. I'm sure > that the god-like beings on this list won't hesitate to tell me :-) I know that some people are quick to reply, but I'm more than a littl hurt by this.. > > ron > > Ron Minnich |Like a knife through Daddy's heart: > rminnich@sarnoff.com |"Don't make fun of Windows, daddy! It takes care > (609)-734-3120 | of all my files and it's reliable and I like it". > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 14:39:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA14962 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:39:16 -0800 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14950 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:39:09 -0800 Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA21358; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:38:40 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:38:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Ernie Elu cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-Reply-To: <199511102220.IAA05172@spooky.apana.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Good idea. I'll supply a stash of Cindy Crawford's, you bring the Niki Taylor's. On Sat, 11 Nov 1995, Ernie Elu wrote: > > aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server > > maintainers busily collect stats on the event? > > > Just put up a message in alt.sex.pictures that there is a new site worth > looking at an maybe put up a couple of swimsuit soft porn pictures and it > will be flodded within 24 hours from all parts of the world. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 14:54:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA15906 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:54:01 -0800 Received: from lobster.dataplex.net ([199.183.109.243]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA15883 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:53:51 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (COD.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.242]) by lobster.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA09525; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:53:36 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:53:37 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 3:44 PM 11/10/95, Terry Lambert wrote: >> At 8:40 PM 11/9/95, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >Like putting them in a "tools" dir at the same level as the kern and >> >compile and arch specific directories. >> >> I certainly have no problem with that location in src/ >> Now I'll throw in the "ringer". gcc and make are also "tools". > >I think I can safely argue that you're not allowed to include them >because they aren't allowed to change as frequently as the config >program. 8-). Frequency of change is NOT the criteria. It is the fact that it might need to change and that it is needed to accomplish a particular compilation of some version of the tree. The generic build files already recognize that you might not want to use the same c compiler all the time. In the same way, you do not wish to use the same config. And in the case of make, Poul is already talking about modifications. There is nothing wrong with that. But the new version of make should not be installed into the running system. It may get there eventually, but in the interim, it belongs in a separate area associated with the build that needs it. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 15:24:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA17110 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:24:30 -0800 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA17104 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:24:24 -0800 Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA21389; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:24:19 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:24:19 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: piero@strider.ibenet.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-Reply-To: <6196.816030897@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Just to clarify, I have them all. Netscape commerce, communication, Apache and NCSA. We currently use Netscape. I'm having a separate box built for this test, so as far as I'm concerned, we can use anything we want, as it's a no-brainer to stop/start 'em. On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > YES. Around November the 20th we at IBE.NET can put up not one > > but two servers running FreeBSD for this purpose. > > We can put one in Europe and one in the USA, both connected by a T1. > > OK. Well, Jaye has already volunteered one of his own machines, also > on a T1. However, he's running the netscape commerce server on his so > it strikes me that we could do this as a larger test, sort of like a > chili contest.. :-) > > We have `n' machines, each chosen to represent some demographic > in the W3 world. Right now I see this as: > > o #1 - Jaye: Represents what you can do with a real commercial > transaction server (netscape). Maybe even put up some > secure pages to give it a good test. This will make the > commercial folks feel good since they're seeing the actual > software under test that they themselves would be using and > won't be quick to dismiss the Apache test results as inapplicable > to them. > > o #2 - Piero-US: Represent what you can put together with entirely > free components (Apache?). > > o #3 - Piero-EU: Same as #2 but so the Europeans can participate > in the test too. > > We run the test for a 24/48/72 hour period, whichever you folks think > is best or can stand, after which each machine's stats are collated > and put together into a large report which is distributed widely. > > This could really be an event, if we handle it right. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 15:52:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA17843 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:52:51 -0800 Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA17836 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:52:46 -0800 Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id BAA18166 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:53:07 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id BAA16857 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:50:00 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id BAA26593 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:49:58 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199511102349.BAA26593@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Shouldn't DB library be updated? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:49:57 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 624 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk That's about Berkeley DB library. The one in --stable is 1.74; the one on ftp.cs.berkeley.edu is 1.85, and seems to be fairly stable (or non-maintained?) implementation. The list of changes and bugfixes between 1.74 and 1.85 is sugnificant. I've compiled 1.85 under recent 2.1 SNAP; compiles easy (minor tweaking with includes), regression tests ran smooth, works fine and seems to be faster on heavy-weight Btree operations comparing to 1.74 version. Maybe it worth updating? -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 An undocumented feature is a coding error. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 15:53:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA17886 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:53:14 -0800 Received: from dtihost.datatrek.com (dtihost.datatrek.com [204.31.148.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA17881 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:53:11 -0800 Received: from gcrutcher (gcrutcher.datatrek.com [204.33.82.254]) by dtihost.datatrek.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA13233 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:51:23 -0800 X-Mailer: Mi'Mail from IRISoft Works, Version 1.12 From: gcrutcher@datatrek.com (Gary Crutcher) Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:42:10 Message-Id: <10111995155314570.II26500@datatrek.com> In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: Text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi Jordan, I have a WEB server on Free BSD v2.05. The configuration is as follows: 90 MHz PCI-based Pentiun (512K mem cache) 64MB 60 ns memory 2.1 GB FAST-CSI hard drive/controller OS -> FreeBSD v2.05 WEB Software -> Apache v.08.14 Currently dedicated 28.8 dial-in, but upgrading to a 56kb frame relay by end of month. I would be willing to participate, but the statistics program I am currently using for WEB site info is not very sophisticated. If someone could help with statistics side, I am willing to allow my site to be bombarded to gather statistics. Also, if another WEB server pkg is preferable, let me know. Gary Crutcher >I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a >FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response >"How long is a piece of string?" > >However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely >unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more >data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously >impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but >various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a >link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing >z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. > >The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth >mentioning. > >I've really only two WEB servers that I can honestly say I have much >experience with, and that's www.cdrom.com and www.freebsd.org. >Unfortunately, www.cdrom.com gets so little WEB traffic in comparison >to FTP traffic (on which we have LOTS of data) that the numbers are >almost lost in the noise. www.freebsd.org is also a popular server as >servers go, but not so popular that we're getting dozens of hits per >second or anything as impressive sounding as that. > >What I'd most ideally like would be some numbers from a site that's to >WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever >I can get! :-) > >Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, >server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. > >If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, >or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a >well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as >many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) >aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server >maintainers busily collect stats on the event? > >Heck, if you need some additional incentive for signing up for such a >mad scheme then might I suggest also putting up some adverts for >whatever service you offer on the page as "live data" (grin) so all >those hundreds (thousands?) of users will also see your advertising in >the process of trying to see how much punishment a FreeBSD WEB server >can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by >posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like >Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a >FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" >advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially >if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively >impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident >enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! > >Either way, it would also generate a lot of publicity for all >concerned (us and the test machine providers) and furnish the FreeBSD >Project with some very valuable data that it doesn't have now. > >So how about it? Any takers? If you're really interested in helping >to further the cause of Spreading The Word, I can assure you that this >would be a significant step in the right direction. I'll also be more >than happy to work with whomever steps forward in drafting a >reasonably provocative-sounding announcement to ensure that people >take up the gauntlet. After all, how much trouble can whapping >"reload" for 5 or so minutes be? :-) > > Jordan > >P.S. Suggestions on how to make this an even more meaningful test from >those webmaniacs out there among you would also be sincerely >appreciated! > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 16:12:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA18553 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:12:16 -0800 Received: from rocco.nebula.org (chris@rocco.nebula.org [206.106.134.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA18548 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:12:13 -0800 Received: (from chris@localhost) by rocco.nebula.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA32121; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:13:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:13:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Chris Gann (sysop)" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Converting a Linux passwd file to FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello to all! I am converting from Linux to FreeBSD to run my server off of, and I am having some difficulties with some very simple things. For the most part, I have been able to take care of some compiling issues and some porting problems, but there is one thing that still stumps me: I would like to convert nearly 4000 passwd entries in Linux (non-shadow) to FreeBSD (shadowed) using the DES package, or whatever would be simplest. When I got this machine, the latest snap (951104) was installed into it with the DES stuff on. Now, all I need is a simple way to move all of these entries over from one platform to another without having to type them all in individually. Any help would be appreciated! --Chris chris@nebula.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 16:19:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA18819 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:19:59 -0800 Received: from fyeung5.netific.com (netific.vip.best.com [205.149.182.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA18814 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:19:50 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02467; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:22:15 GMT Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00773 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:12:49 GMT Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA01019 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:12:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA04248 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:43:35 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA04070 for announce-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:11 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04053 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05589; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:56 -0800 To: announce@freefall.freebsd.org cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Status: OR Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response "How long is a piece of string?" However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth mentioning. I've really only two WEB servers that I can honestly say I have much experience with, and that's www.cdrom.com and www.freebsd.org. Unfortunately, www.cdrom.com gets so little WEB traffic in comparison to FTP traffic (on which we have LOTS of data) that the numbers are almost lost in the noise. www.freebsd.org is also a popular server as servers go, but not so popular that we're getting dozens of hits per second or anything as impressive sounding as that. What I'd most ideally like would be some numbers from a site that's to WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever I can get! :-) Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Heck, if you need some additional incentive for signing up for such a mad scheme then might I suggest also putting up some adverts for whatever service you offer on the page as "live data" (grin) so all those hundreds (thousands?) of users will also see your advertising in the process of trying to see how much punishment a FreeBSD WEB server can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! Either way, it would also generate a lot of publicity for all concerned (us and the test machine providers) and furnish the FreeBSD Project with some very valuable data that it doesn't have now. So how about it? Any takers? If you're really interested in helping to further the cause of Spreading The Word, I can assure you that this would be a significant step in the right direction. I'll also be more than happy to work with whomever steps forward in drafting a reasonably provocative-sounding announcement to ensure that people take up the gauntlet. After all, how much trouble can whapping "reload" for 5 or so minutes be? :-) Jordan P.S. Suggestions on how to make this an even more meaningful test from those webmaniacs out there among you would also be sincerely appreciated! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 16:29:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA19541 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:29:10 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA19534 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:29:07 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA04931; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:24:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511110024.RAA04931@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:24:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 10, 95 04:53:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2156 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> I certainly have no problem with that location in src/ > >> Now I'll throw in the "ringer". gcc and make are also "tools". > > > >I think I can safely argue that you're not allowed to include them > >because they aren't allowed to change as frequently as the config > >program. 8-). > > Frequency of change is NOT the criteria. It is the fact that it might need > to change and that it is needed to accomplish a particular compilation of > some version of the tree. > > The generic build files already recognize that you might not want to use > the same c compiler all the time. In the same way, you do not wish to use > the same config. > And in the case of make, Poul is already talking about modifications. There > is nothing wrong with that. But the new version of make should not be > installed into the running system. It may get there eventually, but in the > interim, it belongs in a separate area associated with the build that needs > it. I think that the kernel has to be compilable with any compiler. But not configurable with any config. I think make is close to in the same boat with config, actually, because there are dependencies on features not generic to all make utilities that are used in the tree. On the other hand, config semantics change with kernl architecture changes, and while makefiles do the same, make semantics do not. This is a nearly natural division of the code into three independent categories. It's possible to push this to two if the makefiles can be made to be independent of the BSD make. This is probably a reasonable goal for the kernel itself, but not for the non-kernel portion of the source tree. I should be able to build a kernel on an SCO Xenix box using an SCO Xenix compiler and make utility from SCO, but that doesn't mean I won't need to hack the boot code because the current loader can't understand the image layout, the assembly code because it *is* tool dependent, or that I can use SCO's config tools (which they don't have one of anyway). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 16:50:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA20490 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:50:30 -0800 Received: from fyeung5.netific.com (netific.vip.best.com [205.149.182.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA20484 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:50:23 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA03127; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:52:58 GMT Status: RO Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA05285 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 00:40:24 GMT Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA21652 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:40:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA18920 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:20:48 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA18841 for announce-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:20:03 -0800 Received: from fyeung5.netific.com (netific.vip.best.com [205.149.182.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA18814 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:19:50 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02467; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:22:15 GMT Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00773 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:12:49 GMT Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA01019 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:12:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA04248 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:43:35 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA04070 for announce-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:11 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04053 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05589; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:56 -0800 To: announce@freefall.freebsd.org cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response "How long is a piece of string?" However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth mentioning. I've really only two WEB servers that I can honestly say I have much experience with, and that's www.cdrom.com and www.freebsd.org. Unfortunately, www.cdrom.com gets so little WEB traffic in comparison to FTP traffic (on which we have LOTS of data) that the numbers are almost lost in the noise. www.freebsd.org is also a popular server as servers go, but not so popular that we're getting dozens of hits per second or anything as impressive sounding as that. What I'd most ideally like would be some numbers from a site that's to WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever I can get! :-) Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Heck, if you need some additional incentive for signing up for such a mad scheme then might I suggest also putting up some adverts for whatever service you offer on the page as "live data" (grin) so all those hundreds (thousands?) of users will also see your advertising in the process of trying to see how much punishment a FreeBSD WEB server can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! Either way, it would also generate a lot of publicity for all concerned (us and the test machine providers) and furnish the FreeBSD Project with some very valuable data that it doesn't have now. So how about it? Any takers? If you're really interested in helping to further the cause of Spreading The Word, I can assure you that this would be a significant step in the right direction. I'll also be more than happy to work with whomever steps forward in drafting a reasonably provocative-sounding announcement to ensure that people take up the gauntlet. After all, how much trouble can whapping "reload" for 5 or so minutes be? :-) Jordan P.S. Suggestions on how to make this an even more meaningful test from those webmaniacs out there among you would also be sincerely appreciated! >From daemon Fri Nov 10 16:35:41 1995 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02697; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:35:40 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:35:40 GMT Message-Id: <199511101635.QAA02697@fyeung5.netific.com> From: root (Cron Daemon) To: nobody Subject: Cron /usr/local/sbin/getmail X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: [shellx.best.com IMAP2bis Service 7.8(92) at Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:32:21 -0800 (PST)] {shellx.best.com}INBOX [25 message(s)] => INBOX [Ok] [shellx.best.com IMAP2bis server terminating connection] From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 16:51:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA20610 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:51:14 -0800 Received: from fyeung5.netific.com (netific.vip.best.com [205.149.182.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA20588 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:51:03 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA03336; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:53:37 GMT Status: RO Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA05285 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 00:40:24 GMT Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA21652 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:40:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA18920 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:20:48 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA18841 for announce-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:20:03 -0800 Received: from fyeung5.netific.com (netific.vip.best.com [205.149.182.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA18814 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:19:50 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02467; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:22:15 GMT Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00773 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:12:49 GMT Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA01019 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:12:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA04248 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:43:35 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA04070 for announce-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:11 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04053 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05589; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:56 -0800 To: announce@freefall.freebsd.org cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response "How long is a piece of string?" However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth mentioning. I've really only two WEB servers that I can honestly say I have much experience with, and that's www.cdrom.com and www.freebsd.org. Unfortunately, www.cdrom.com gets so little WEB traffic in comparison to FTP traffic (on which we have LOTS of data) that the numbers are almost lost in the noise. www.freebsd.org is also a popular server as servers go, but not so popular that we're getting dozens of hits per second or anything as impressive sounding as that. What I'd most ideally like would be some numbers from a site that's to WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever I can get! :-) Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Heck, if you need some additional incentive for signing up for such a mad scheme then might I suggest also putting up some adverts for whatever service you offer on the page as "live data" (grin) so all those hundreds (thousands?) of users will also see your advertising in the process of trying to see how much punishment a FreeBSD WEB server can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! Either way, it would also generate a lot of publicity for all concerned (us and the test machine providers) and furnish the FreeBSD Project with some very valuable data that it doesn't have now. So how about it? Any takers? If you're really interested in helping to further the cause of Spreading The Word, I can assure you that this would be a significant step in the right direction. I'll also be more than happy to work with whomever steps forward in drafting a reasonably provocative-sounding announcement to ensure that people take up the gauntlet. After all, how much trouble can whapping "reload" for 5 or so minutes be? :-) Jordan P.S. Suggestions on how to make this an even more meaningful test from those webmaniacs out there among you would also be sincerely appreciated! >From daemon Fri Nov 10 16:45:46 1995 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02751; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:45:46 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:45:46 GMT Message-Id: <199511101645.QAA02751@fyeung5.netific.com> From: root (Cron Daemon) To: nobody Subject: Cron /usr/local/sbin/getmail X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: [shellx.best.com IMAP2bis Service 7.8(92) at Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:42:21 -0800 (PST)] {shellx.best.com}INBOX [28 message(s)] => INBOX [Ok] [shellx.best.com IMAP2bis server terminating connection] From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 16:51:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA20667 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:51:27 -0800 Received: from fyeung5.netific.com (netific.vip.best.com [205.149.182.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA20644 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:51:20 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA03415; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:53:52 GMT Status: RO Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA05285 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 00:40:24 GMT Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA21652 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:40:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA18920 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:20:48 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA18841 for announce-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:20:03 -0800 Received: from fyeung5.netific.com (netific.vip.best.com [205.149.182.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA18814 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:19:50 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02467; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:22:15 GMT Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00773 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:12:49 GMT Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA01019 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:12:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA04248 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:43:35 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA04070 for announce-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:11 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04053 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:36:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05589; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:56 -0800 To: announce@freefall.freebsd.org cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I frequently get asked the question: "How many users can I run off a FreeBSD WEB server?" and I'm naturally tempted to ask in response "How long is a piece of string?" However, I check myself with the knowledge that it's not an entirely unreasonable thing to want to know, and I merely wish that I had more data on this subject to provide in response. It's obviously impossible to come up with one number that fits all situations, but various guesstimates can be derived from existing data so that given a link speed of x, a PC of macho-factor y and the "average" user doing z, you can come up with a performance projection of n users. The only problem is that I don't *have* any existing data worth mentioning. I've really only two WEB servers that I can honestly say I have much experience with, and that's www.cdrom.com and www.freebsd.org. Unfortunately, www.cdrom.com gets so little WEB traffic in comparison to FTP traffic (on which we have LOTS of data) that the numbers are almost lost in the noise. www.freebsd.org is also a popular server as servers go, but not so popular that we're getting dozens of hits per second or anything as impressive sounding as that. What I'd most ideally like would be some numbers from a site that's to WEB servers what ftp.cdrom.com is to FTP servers, but I'll take whatever I can get! :-) Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. If we can't get any actual data from existing WEB service providers, or even if we can, might I prevail on someone out there with a well-connected box to possibly declare a "flag day", during which as many people on this list as possible (and anyone else they can find) aggressively attempts to beat the server to its knees while the server maintainers busily collect stats on the event? Heck, if you need some additional incentive for signing up for such a mad scheme then might I suggest also putting up some adverts for whatever service you offer on the page as "live data" (grin) so all those hundreds (thousands?) of users will also see your advertising in the process of trying to see how much punishment a FreeBSD WEB server can take.. We could even make it more widely publicised challenge by posting details of the event in various non-FreeBSD newsgroups, like Linux's or BSDI's. Given an open invite to see if they can bring a FreeBSD WEB server to its knees, I'm sure many of the "competing OS" advocates wouldn't be able to resist a challenge like that, especially if the testing authority promised in advance to be relatively impartial and post full results, be they good or bad. I'm confident enough in this product that I think we'd come out looking pretty good! Either way, it would also generate a lot of publicity for all concerned (us and the test machine providers) and furnish the FreeBSD Project with some very valuable data that it doesn't have now. So how about it? Any takers? If you're really interested in helping to further the cause of Spreading The Word, I can assure you that this would be a significant step in the right direction. I'll also be more than happy to work with whomever steps forward in drafting a reasonably provocative-sounding announcement to ensure that people take up the gauntlet. After all, how much trouble can whapping "reload" for 5 or so minutes be? :-) Jordan P.S. Suggestions on how to make this an even more meaningful test from those webmaniacs out there among you would also be sincerely appreciated! >From root@fyeung5 Sat Nov 11 00:44:38 1995 Status: RO X-Status: Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA06989 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 00:44:37 GMT Received: from bsdi.BSDI.COM (bsdi.BSDI.COM [205.230.224.1]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA22220 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:44:41 -0800 Received: from austin.bsdi.com (daemon#r4MJMfstq8MnmHM5cGDHZGcdJZn827pH#@austin.BSDI.COM [205.230.229.1]) by bsdi.BSDI.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA03794 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:58:51 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by austin.bsdi.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA15968 for inet-access-dist@earth.com; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:58:49 -0600 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:58:49 -0600 Resent-Message-Id: <199511102158.PAA15968@austin.bsdi.com> List-Admin: inet-access-request@earth.com (subscribe/unsubscribe requests) Errors-To: owner-inet-access@earth.com Originator: inet-access@earth.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: inet-access@earth.com Resent-From: inet-access@earth.com Sender: inet-access@earth.com Received: from caboose.ironhorse.com (root@sl-caboose.ironhorse.com [204.145.167.1]) by austin.bsdi.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA15964 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:58:45 -0600 Received: from caboose.ironhorse.com (petesk@caboose.ironhorse.com [204.145.167.2]) by caboose.ironhorse.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA18708 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:30 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Peter J. Skelly" To: inet-access@earth.com Subject: Re: PC w/ Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Jonah Barron Yokubaitis wrote: > On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Peter J. Skelly wrote: > > (Obviously, our customer bases, and therefore usage patterns differ. > > Thats why I'm able to get away with the news system I have, and probably > > why you need the news system you have) > > laugh, go run 200 news clients on your 16M server. Your machine will swap > so heavily you won't be able to telnet to it. > > Compare apples to apples. Why do you think I included the parenthetical statement... I am fully aware that our userbases are different. In this whole discussion, I do not think ANY of the Linux newsadmins implied that they were expecting to run 200, or even as many as 20, readers on their news machines. Why is it that people running large ISP's can't seem to see that those of us running smaller ISP's may not want 3000 whining, non net-aware, support intensive, 10$ a month users. That is not the only business model in existence. Peter J. Skelly petesk@ironhorse.com Ironhorse Software, Inc. (206) 999-9983 Windows (NT), OLE, LINUX, OS/2 Software Development http://www.ironhorse.com/~petesk From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 17:13:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA21954 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:13:29 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21946 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:13:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA07820; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:12:43 -0800 To: John Fieber cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:13 EST." Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:12:43 -0800 Message-ID: <7818.816052363@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Someone should have a look at http://www.sgi.com/Products/WebFORCE/WebStone/ > and see if this might be a useful tool. Have you tried it out on any of our own stuff? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 17:54:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA23513 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:54:28 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA23508 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:54:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA08445; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:54:15 -0800 To: Joe Diehl cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The tree will be tagged for 2.1.0-RELEASE on 9 Nov 1995, 23:00 PST In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:19:46 CST." <199511102219.QAA04036@bilbo.me.ksu.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:54:15 -0800 Message-ID: <8443.816054855@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Barring any last minute delays, the scheduled time for tagging the > > tree for 2.1.0-RELEASE will be the 9th of November, one hour (give or > > take a few) before midnight Pacific Standard Time. > > > > I was under the impression that this means the software will be > released at the above listed time. Did I misunderstand that? Or > was it postponed? It was postponed.. Things are going a bit more slowly than anticipated (don't ask - Murphey and his 47 children came to stay 3 days ago and I haven't gotten them to leave yet!) but we're sort of on track.. Actually, I'm not going to tag the tree until the one-off CDs arrive in the tester's hands and they've had a day or so to test them. Once I'm sure I don't need to make any more changes for CD installation, THEN I'll tag the tree and we can open the various floodgate doors. I hope no more than 4-5 more days. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 17:54:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA23539 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:54:36 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA23528 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:54:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA08354; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:43:39 -0800 To: piero@strider.ibenet.it cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:16:20 +0100." <199511102116.WAA03148@strider.ibenet.it> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:43:39 -0800 Message-ID: <8352.816054219@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > All people interested in the setup of the machines, etc, can join > w3test@ibenet.it by sending e-mail to me > (no automatic daemon, sorry). I have also set up a webtest@freebsd.org mailing alias for those folks actually participating in setting up this test. So far, it's myself, Piero, Jaye and Brad. Any suggestions concerning how to run the tests or features that people are particularly interested in having tested should be sent to this alias. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 17:56:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA23715 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:56:45 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA23706 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:56:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA08459; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:55:08 -0800 To: Ernie Elu cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:20:41 +1000." <199511102220.IAA05172@spooky.apana.org.au> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:55:08 -0800 Message-ID: <8456.816054908@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Just put up a message in alt.sex.pictures that there is a new site worth > looking at an maybe put up a couple of swimsuit soft porn pictures and it > will be flodded within 24 hours from all parts of the world. Intreguing idea.. Now I just need to pick someone's site at random without the finger of blame pointing back at me.. :-) :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 18:10:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA24102 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:10:30 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24096 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:10:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA08556; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:07:24 -0800 To: Jaye Mathisen cc: piero@strider.ibenet.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:24:19 PST." Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:07:24 -0800 Message-ID: <8553.816055644@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Just to clarify, I have them all. Netscape commerce, communication, Apache > and NCSA. We currently use Netscape. I'm having a separate box built > for this test, so as far as I'm concerned, we can use anything we want, > as it's a no-brainer to stop/start 'em. Well, I think someone should test the netscape commerce server, and it might as well be you (for at least some part of the test period, anyway). Like I said, if we stick only to the free servers then many of the commercial folks will ignore the results as largely irrelevant. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 18:26:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA24529 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:26:09 -0800 Received: from dtihost.datatrek.com (dtihost.datatrek.com [204.31.148.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24521 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:26:05 -0800 Received: from laptop.nightflight ([205.162.141.3]) by dtihost.datatrek.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA13462; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:24:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:24:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199511110224.SAA13462@dtihost.datatrek.com> X-Sender: gcrutcher@datatrek.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: questions@freebsd.org From: Gary Crutcher Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am currently using the Apache v0.8.14 web server. I have noticed that NCSA has a newer version, v0.8.8. They also have an NCSA v1.5 web server. Does anyone know which is a better web server? Thanks, Gary Crutcher From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 18:58:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA25523 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:58:49 -0800 Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA25515 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:58:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199511110258.SAA25515@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:58:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: mrcpu@cdsnet.net, piero@strider.ibenet.it, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <8553.816055644@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 06:07:24 pm From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 707 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > > Just to clarify, I have them all. Netscape commerce, communication, Apache > > and NCSA. We currently use Netscape. I'm having a separate box built > > for this test, so as far as I'm concerned, we can use anything we want, > > as it's a no-brainer to stop/start 'em. > > Well, I think someone should test the netscape commerce server, and it > might as well be you (for at least some part of the test period, > anyway). Like I said, if we stick only to the free servers then many > of the commercial folks will ignore the results as largely irrelevant. BSDi version of NetSite 1.1 works fine for me under FreeBSD-near-the-current > > Jordan > -- dima From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 18:59:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA25597 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:59:32 -0800 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA25583 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:59:17 -0800 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22443 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:59:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id VAA12342; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:59:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:59:01 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@espresso.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: gdbtk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thought you guys might like to know; I was tipped off that the newest gdb compiled fine under current, I just checked with a program I wrote, and it sure does recognize our executeable format. What I'm trying to pass on is something that we haven't been able to use before, because of the inability to run gdb out-of-the-box. That something is gdbtk, a nice tk interface to gdb. The stuff exists on ftp.cygnus.com, in pub/gdb (NOT gdbtk, there is one named like that, but it's snapshots). The file is gdbtk-4.15.1.tar.gz, and you have to specify --enable-gdbtk to get it to build, otherwise you just get the newest gdb (worth something in its own right, I guess). This thing doesn't care about shared libs, and actually goes about building it's own tcl/tk version, so the executeable is kinda big, 1.7 megs. Watch out you modify the CFLAGS in all the makefiles to remove the -g, else you'll get much larger executeables! Oh, yeah, the CXXFLAGS (where they exist) also need editing, and the tk subdirectory should have the -lnsl removed from the linking flags.. there's a gdbtk.tcl file that needs installing, and I renamed the executable from gdb to gdbtk, to keep my command line version on tap. I think it has some bugs yet, but it does indeed work, I tried it. I hope this is the right place for this, if it isn't, yell at me. ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Here's OJ's internet address in hex code: 00 2F 2F 2F 2F 5C 7F 2D 0D 15 1B 19 24 24 24 18 If you can't recall the translation, here it is: null character, slash, slash, slash, slash, backslash, rubout, dash, carriage return, negative acknowledgement, escape, end of media, dollar sign, dollar sign, dollar sign, cancel From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 19:26:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA26373 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:26:22 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA26365 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:26:14 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA18183; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:26:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199511110326.UAA18183@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:23:21 PST Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:26:02 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : I'm sure if someone really worked hard enough they could probably come : up with a reasonably convincing argument for how a full linux : cross-compilation environment would make their lives easier, but it's : take a lot more than that to convince me that this makes sense for the : general populace. Being able to run things like Linux Wingz, : WordPerfect or the Caldera desktop - now THAT makes sense. It has made my life easier in the past, but I went the route of building a full tool chain and installing it myself. It isn't that horribly hard to do, so I think that Jordan may be right. However, if it does just work with some care (like installing libc, et al in the right places), then I don't think anything should be done to break it :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 20:06:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA28004 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:06:56 -0800 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA27991 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:06:46 -0800 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA06436; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:06:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:06:22 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-Reply-To: <199511101902.MAA04071@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > If the httpd is started from inetd, [...] ...which I doubt would even cross the mind of anyone running a serious WWW site. It makes no sense with the "pre-forking" design of servers like Apache which keep a (user adjustable) army httpd processes running to service service requests quickly without taking a fork hit each time. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 20:51:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA29481 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:51:13 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29476 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:51:08 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00661; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:50:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199511110450.UAA00661@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 to: multimedia@star-gate.com cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linux's xnetview and doom's sndserver In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:31:55 PST." <199511102131.NAA01833@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:50:16 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ladies and Gentlemen we now have the Linux Doom's sndserver working on FreeBSD . I will probably submit patches later on next week after I let a few folks check them out. I will the folks on the multimedia mailing list to test the patch. Now if I can just convince Bettina to let me listen to Doom on my MckItosh 100 watt stereo amp I will be all set 8) Cheers, Amancio >>> "Amancio Hasty Jr." said: > > Could a kind soul who has access to a linux box with the sound driver > compile the following program and send me the binary? > > If you happen to have a box and are stuck with the 2.9 sound driver it > will be fantastic if you compile this program . Because Doom's sndserver > is compiled with snd driver version 2.9 -- I think anyhow. > > Just trying to get the linux version of xnetview (Xing's Streamworks client) > and doom's sndserver working on freebsd. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 20:55:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA29634 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:55:07 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29629 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:55:03 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA00443; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:54:51 -0800 To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: multimedia@star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linux's xnetview and doom's sndserver In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:50:16 PST." <199511110450.UAA00661@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:54:51 -0800 Message-ID: <441.816065691@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Ladies and Gentlemen we now have the Linux Doom's sndserver working on > FreeBSD . Wow! Congradulations, Amancio! I might even be willing to exit fvwm to play DOOM if it has sound! :-) [fvwm grabs the control arrow events, making "strafing" and such otherwise rather difficult!] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 21:59:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA01627 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:59:50 -0800 Received: from user37.lightside.com (user48.lightside.com [198.81.209.48]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA01622 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:59:43 -0800 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by user37.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA00299; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:01:29 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:00:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , multimedia@star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linux's xnetview and doom's sndserver In-Reply-To: <441.816065691@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Ladies and Gentlemen we now have the Linux Doom's sndserver working on > > FreeBSD . > > Wow! Congradulations, Amancio! > > I might even be willing to exit fvwm to play DOOM if it has sound! :-) > > [fvwm grabs the control arrow events, making "strafing" and such > otherwise rather difficult!] > > Jordan You can disable this behavior in the .fvwmrc file quite easily, just comment out the lines that look like: # Arrow Keys # press arrow + control anywhere, and scroll by 1 page Key Left A C Scroll -100 0 Key Right A C Scroll +100 +0 Key Up A C Scroll +0 -100 Key Down A C Scroll +0 +100 # press arrow + meta key, and scroll by 1/10 of a page Key Left A M Scroll -10 +0 Key Right A M Scroll +10 +0 Key Up A M Scroll +0 -10 Key Down A M Scroll +0 +10 # press shift arrow + control anywhere, and move the pointer by 1% of a page Key Left A SC CursorMove -1 0 Key Right A SC CursorMove +1 +0 Key Up A SC CursorMove +0 -1 Key Down A SC CursorMove +0 +1 [this is from a Slackware Linux-style .fvwmrc, yours may be different] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 10 23:32:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA05471 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:32:18 -0800 Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA05464 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:32:12 -0800 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA11743; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:31:37 -0600 Message-Id: <199511110731.BAA11743@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Here's why you should post about MINIX In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:25:12 EST." <199511102025.PAA22863@etinc.com> Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:31:37 -0600 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, dennis scribbled: > >It may be too late for Foster's; he could have already bought the Fava Beans >. > > Personally, I prefer Bass Ale. Any Brits out there? I put down several tonight. Bass Ales, that is. :-) And, in a hacker-cum-chat sort of way, would extend a beer or coffee offer to anyone on the list for most anytime next week in the BA, Mtn View/Sunnyvale area. I'll be in that chunk of town all week, and would love to meet and talk about all the good ol' days, etc. jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 01:06:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA08272 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:06:59 -0800 Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA08266 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:06:54 -0800 Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sat, 11 Nov 95 09:06 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA19222; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:02:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199511110902.KAA19222@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:02:43 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Nov 10, 95 11:15:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1220 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ron G. Minnich writes: > > this program does a very simple thing: > 1) open a file > 2) call write with an invalid address, viz: > write(fd, x, 5); > where x is (void *) 0x40000000 > > it does this as many times as you ask. What it's measuring is correlated > to the raw performance of the system's ability to look up a vm region or > segment or object given a virtual address. It is not a pure measure, > since systems that do a lot of work before checking the arguments > (freebsd) will fare worse than systems that just check the arguments up > front for validity (linux). On the other hand, all the system calls that > happen a lot have to do this operation, so you probably want this type of > thing to be fast. Forgive me if I'm not critical :-) I just tried it out on two 486DX/2-66s, one running BSD/386 1.1 and the other running FreeBSD 951004 SNAP. I think the numbers (for 100000 iterations) speak for themselves. BSD/386: 10.19 real 0.33 user 9.61 sys FreeBSD: 54.25 real 0.82 user 52.67 sys People may argue that this is a silly benchmark, but I still think we should be interested to know why FreeBSD takes over 5 times as long to run this program. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 01:45:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA09896 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:45:38 -0800 Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA09881 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:45:30 -0800 Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id LAA19254 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:46:09 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id LAA24810 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:12:16 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id LAA09884 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:12:15 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199511110912.LAA09884@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Disk striping or even RAID for FreeBSD? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:12:14 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 529 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello people, has anyone some of the mentioned abilities implemented for FreeBSD? Or: how to glue 6 1Gb HDDs into one striped or "RAIDed" raw device, if you need one 6 (or 5) "big" disk? What a _damn_ fast file server would FreeBSD become with this! :-) As about a "software" RAID -- I mentioned a bunch of techreports and various whitepapers on the subject at ftp.cs.berkeley.edu. -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 An undocumented feature is a coding error. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 05:53:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA17200 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 05:53:32 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA17195 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 05:53:29 -0800 Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA01612; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:02:31 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199511111402.JAA01612@hda.com> Subject: Re: Compiling Linux Binaries under FreeBSD To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:02:30 -0500 (EST) Cc: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511102136.NAA01192@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 10, 95 01:36:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1302 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > If you onlty have one machine but want to compile for both linux and freeBSD, > and you can't affort to reboot your machine (i.e. it's your mailserver etc.) > > then it makes sense it have one xterm in 'normal space' and one in 'linux space' > > where 'linux space' is a ext2fs partition(or bsd part), populated with > linux binaries, and chroot'd to.. > > certainly good for comparing how differnt tools act, checking out > the differences in the man pages, etc. etc. I think it makes sense to want to build binaries on FreeBSD for Linux, assuming the Linux emulation works well and that you like FreeBSD better and you have a dual Linux-FreeBSD project. It is also a good test for our emulation. I have a long history of cross development for various platforms, and I don't think anyone should be dissuaded from trying this. The big problem from my point of view is he will STILL need to boot "real" Linux for testing, and so will still need that Linux box or boot partition. But I'm sure that the time spent under Linux will be reduced if he had this dual build environment, not to mention his context switch time. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 07:41:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA18614 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 07:41:35 -0800 Received: from netcom.netcom.com (bugs@netcom.netcom.com [192.100.81.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA18609 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 07:41:32 -0800 Received: by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id HAA23806; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 07:40:10 -0800 From: bugs@netcom.com (Mark Hittinger) Message-Id: <199511111540.HAA23806@netcom.netcom.com> Subject: re: Disk striping or even RAID for FreeBSD To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 07:40:10 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 969 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: "Andrew V. Stesin" > has anyone some of the mentioned abilities implemented for > FreeBSD? Or: how to glue 6 1Gb HDDs into one striped or "RAIDed" > raw device, if you need one 6 (or 5) "big" disk? > What a _damn_ fast file server would FreeBSD become with this! :-) > As about a "software" RAID -- I mentioned a bunch of techreports > and various whitepapers on the subject at ftp.cs.berkeley.edu. Last week I was in San Jose and got to meet Ulf. One of the things Ulf mentioned was that he had obtained the specs on the new adaptec 3985 part which evidently supports these sorts of things. This would be a terrific thing to implement - news expiration would be a major beneficiary of this work. I already regard FreeBSD as the ultimate web server, it is pretty damn close to the ultimate news box as well. This would sort of push things over into the "intuitively obvious" range. Regards, Mark Hittinger now bugs@netcom.com :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 07:43:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA18724 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 07:43:05 -0800 Received: from io.org (io.org [142.77.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA18717 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 07:43:02 -0800 Received: from flinch.io.org (flinch.io.org [198.133.36.153]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA19674; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:42:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:42:51 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-Reply-To: <199511101902.MAA04071@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [freebsd-announce trimmed out of the Cc list] On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > If the httpd is started from inetd, then the limit is dictated by no > more than 256 requests in any 60 second period, unless you override > this at inetd startup time by increasing the number of requests > allowed per 60 seconds using a -R when you start it in the rc file. Someone ought to update the man page then: -R rate Specifies the maximum number of times a service can be invoked in one minute; the default is 1000. > You can kill most BSD inetd based FTP servers this way now, actually, > using a -d 0 on an ncftp retry when the server is already loaded. I > saw ftp.mv.com go down the other day when an associate stupidly kicked > the retry delay to 0. I had this problem last week with our FTP server getting shut down by inetd. Running "inetd -d" showed 6 or 7 ftp connections per second, which works out to around 400 requests per minute, and I couldn't figure out why inetd was killing it off when the default limit was supposedly 1000 retries per minute. It reminded me to read the source code, not the documentation. ;-) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 08:02:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA19183 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:02:15 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA19178 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:02:10 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA00273; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:02:09 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA00163; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:01:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199511111601.IAA00163@corbin.Root.COM> To: Brian Tao cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 95 10:42:51 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:01:57 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >[freebsd-announce trimmed out of the Cc list] > >On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> If the httpd is started from inetd, then the limit is dictated by no >> more than 256 requests in any 60 second period, unless you override >> this at inetd startup time by increasing the number of requests >> allowed per 60 seconds using a -R when you start it in the rc file. > > Someone ought to update the man page then: > > -R rate > Specifies the maximum number of times a service can > be invoked in one minute; the default is 1000. In fact I already did this: ---------------------------- revision 1.5 date: 1995/10/09 23:34:07; author: davidg; state: Exp; lines: +2 -2 Correct the "default rate" - it's 256/minute not 1000/minute. I overlooked this change for 2.1, however, and now it's too late. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 08:04:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA19279 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:04:17 -0800 Received: from io.org (io.org [142.77.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA19269 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:04:07 -0800 Received: from flinch.io.org (flinch.io.org [198.133.36.153]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA21810; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:03:48 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:03:59 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? In-Reply-To: <199511102124.VAA13009@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Michael Smith wrote: > > Brian Tao's benchmarks (700K+ hits per day) are a good opener when > talking to commercial vendors that think that 10K/hour is "heavy". That was under ideal conditions... no network lag, all local disks, no CGI's or authentication, etc. If you throw in lagged and randomly dropped connections, NFS-mounted Web pages and moderate CGI loading (page counters, e-mail forms, finger gateways, etc.), the peak rate falls to around 400K requests per day, peak. On an average day, this works out to around 200K hits (assuming 4x difference between service valleys and peaks). This tests were done on a 486DX4/100 with 16 megabytes of RAM, 1-gig Quantum local disk, an SGI PowerChallenge as the NFS server, over 10-baseT Ethernet to a cheap ISA D-Link NIC. Total cost is less than $2000 these days (not including the SGI ;-)). This figure should be of interest to commercial Web space vendors, because a moderately busy site charging the going rate for server rental and bandwidth fees can generate enough revenue to add another node at least once a month. IMHO, CGI processing is the biggest factor in determining what sort of hardware you need to run your server. The OpenText server (http://www.opentext.com/) sits in a machine room three floors above my office. They provide Yahoo with the hardware and software used in their database searches. There are three DEC Alpha servers upstairs with 5 CPU's and 5 gigabytes of RAM in all. A fast Pentium server could easily handle the HTTP front-end and shuffle the CGI queries off to the Alphas which do 99% of the work. I'd like to do some more benchmarking with FreeBSD on different hardware, but I haven't had the time yet. Internex Online was just bought by a media communications company with lots of money, so maybe that means I can hire some assistants to do grunt work while I play around with cool stuff. :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 08:12:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA19569 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:12:08 -0800 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA19561 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:12:05 -0800 Received: from latte.eng.umd.edu (latte.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.15]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28510 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:12:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by latte.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id LAA01866; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:12:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:12:02 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@latte.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD-Hackers Subject: kernel build error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just finished a make world on my two machines, no errors, and proceeded to remake kernels. I reused kernel config files that hadn't been changed for months. One the machine with a Adaptec 1542 (using the aha driver) I had no problems, but on the machine using an Adaptec 2842 (ahc driver) I got the following error: cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DI386_CPU -DGUSMAX -DFAT_CURSOR -DXSERVER -DPCVT_FREEBSD=210 -DSEMUNE=20 -DSEMMNI=20 -DCOMPAT_I BCS2 -DOPEN_MAX=128 -DCHILD_MAX=128 -DSYSVMSG -DSYSVSEM -DSYSVSHM -DCOM_MULTIPORT -DUCONSOLE -DBOUNCE_BUFFERS -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DGPL_MATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 ../../pc i/aic7870.c In file included from ../../pci/aic7870.c:35: ../../i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h:220: conflicting types for `ahcintr' ./ioconf.h:12: previous declaration of `ahcintr' ../../i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h:220: warning: redundant redeclaration of `ahcintr' in same scope ./ioconf.h:12: warning: previous declaration of `ahcintr' *** Error code 1 Stop. I wasn't *absolutely* sure I'd done the make from a clean directory, so I redid the build after a reconfig, same result. Any idea what I could change? Should I post my config file? ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Here's OJ's internet address in hex code: 00 2F 2F 2F 2F 5C 7F 2D 0D 15 1B 19 24 24 24 18 If you can't recall the translation, here it is: null character, slash, slash, slash, slash, backslash, rubout, dash, carriage return, negative acknowledgement, escape, end of media, dollar sign, dollar sign, dollar sign, cancel From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 08:37:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA20192 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:37:10 -0800 Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA20180 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:37:05 -0800 Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0tEIvP-0002EMC; Sat, 11 Nov 95 08:36 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:36:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511101902.MAA04071@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 10, 95 12:02:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 387 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > If the httpd is started from inetd Anyone who starts httpd from inetd isn't concerned about performance... -- Alan Batie ______ batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Freedom for me to be and do +1 503 452-0960 \ / only what *you* approve of 45 28 59 N / 122 43 20 W / 440' MSL \/ is no freedom at all. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 08:44:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA20586 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:44:36 -0800 Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA20581 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:44:32 -0800 Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA04723 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:44:26 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id KAA19145; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:45:15 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511111645.KAA19145@solaria.sol.net> Subject: panic: free vnode isn't To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 95 10:45:12 CST Reply-To: jgreco@mei.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Content-Length: 486 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk My 1026-SNAP news server flipped this morning, again, with this error. So it is an occasionally recurring problem. I forgot that I needed to define DODUMP in order for it to save a dump to disk, but will gladly recompile another kernel and do this, if it might be helpful. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 08:59:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA20931 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:59:18 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA20923 ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:59:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199511111659.IAA20923@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: bugs@netcom.com (Mark Hittinger) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Disk striping or even RAID for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 1995 07:40:10 PST." <199511111540.HAA23806@netcom.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:59:11 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> From: "Andrew V. Stesin" >> has anyone some of the mentioned abilities implemented for >> FreeBSD? Or: how to glue 6 1Gb HDDs into one striped or "RAIDed" >> raw device, if you need one 6 (or 5) "big" disk? >> What a _damn_ fast file server would FreeBSD become with this! :-) >> As about a "software" RAID -- I mentioned a bunch of techreports >> and various whitepapers on the subject at ftp.cs.berkeley.edu. > >Last week I was in San Jose and got to meet Ulf. One of the things Ulf >mentioned was that he had obtained the specs on the new adaptec 3985 part >which evidently supports these sorts of things. I talked to Ulf on the phone about this. I also received, just two nights ago, the documentation for the 3985. Unfortunately, the documentation I received is only enough to get the card acting as a three channel SCSI adapter and to do RAID 0,0/1 (simple striping or mirrored pairs). To do RAID 5, I'd need documentation for the parity DRAM buffer (aic7810), but Adaptec claims the preliminary Data book for the part is not availible. Getting the card to act as a SCSI adapter would take a day. Getting RAID 0 to work would take at least a month because I'd want to create a new, generic SCSI driver that could be extended to standard SCSI controllers. It could be written like the ccd driver in NetBSD, but I think that the overhead in going through individual sd0 devices would be too high especially if you had to recontruct data in a RAID 5 scenario. I'll have to think about it some more. > >This would be a terrific thing to implement - news expiration would be a >major beneficiary of this work. I already regard FreeBSD as the ultimate >web server, it is pretty damn close to the ultimate news box as well. >This would sort of push things over into the "intuitively obvious" range. Well, if anyone wants to fund such a project, let Ulf and me know. I've also lost access to any PCI machines util I can scrape together enough cash to buy one myself, so that raises the "funding cost" a little. :) > >Regards, > >Mark Hittinger >now bugs@netcom.com :-) -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 09:04:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA21107 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:04:18 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA21094 ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:04:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199511111704.JAA21094@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD-Hackers Subject: Re: kernel build error In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:12:02 EST." Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:04:12 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I just finished a make world on my two machines, no errors, and proceeded >to remake kernels. I reused kernel config files that hadn't been changed >for months. One the machine with a Adaptec 1542 (using the aha driver) I >had no problems, but on the machine using an Adaptec 2842 (ahc driver) I >got the following error: Read the LINT kernel file. The configuration for EISA ahc devices has changed and since the 2842 looks like an EISA device, its also affected. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 09:13:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA21327 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:13:07 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA21322 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:13:05 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA09764; Sat, 11 Nov 95 11:12:58 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA29544; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:12:57 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:12:57 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9511111712.AA29544@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <441.816065691@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: linux's xnetview and doom's sndserver Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> I might even be willing to exit fvwm to play DOOM if it Jordan> has sound! :-) Jordan> [fvwm grabs the control arrow events, making "strafing" Jordan> and such otherwise rather difficult!] Delete these lines from your .fvwmrc: Key Left A C Scroll -100 0 Key Right A C Scroll +100 +0 Key Up A C Scroll +0 -100 Key Down A C Scroll +0 +100 (Besides, the correct way to strafe is ALT+arrow :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA As we were driving, we saw a sign that said, "Watch for Rocks." Marta said it should read "Watch for Pretty Rocks." I told her she should write in her suggestion to the highway department, but she started saying it was a joke - just to get out of writing a simple letter! And I thought I was lazy! -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 10:32:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA23347 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:32:43 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23340 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:32:40 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA05713; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 05:27:32 +1100 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 05:27:32 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511111827.FAA05713@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, jgreco@solaria.sol.net Subject: Re: panic: free vnode isn't Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >My 1026-SNAP news server flipped this morning, again, with this error. So >it is an occasionally recurring problem. >I forgot that I needed to define DODUMP in order for it to save a dump to >disk, but will gladly recompile another kernel and do this, if it might be >helpful. No excuse :-). DODUMP hasn't existed for about 6 months. Use dumpon(8). Perhaps known bogus options should be checked for in a central source file: #ifdef CHILD_MAX #warning "bogus option CHILD_MAX, RTFM setrlimit(2), sh(1) (ulimit)" #endif #ifdef DODUMP #warning "bogus option DODUMP, fix your configuration and RTFM dodump(8)" #endif ... Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 10:37:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA23522 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:37:51 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23516 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:37:44 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA05972; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 05:36:01 +1100 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 05:36:01 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511111836.FAA05972@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chuckr@glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: kernel build error Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >./ioconf.h:12: previous declaration of `ahcintr' >../../i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h:220: warning: redundant redeclaration of `ahcintr' in same scope >./ioconf.h:12: warning: previous declaration of `ahcintr' >*** Error code 1 >Stop. >I wasn't *absolutely* sure I'd done the make from a clean directory, so I >redid the build after a reconfig, same result. Any idea what I could change? >Should I post my config file? ahc is now configured as an eisa device, but old config files specify it as an isa device. See GENERIC and LINT for up to date configurations. You should read the commit mail to keep up with changes in -current, and report bugs in -current in the -current mailing list, not in -hackers. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 11:06:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA24050 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:06:20 -0800 Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA24045 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:06:18 -0800 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA26951 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:20:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:20:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199511111920.OAA26951@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: disabling DDB Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is there a way to disable DDB (so that the machine will boot on a failure) without having to recompile the kernel without it? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 11:27:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA24473 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:27:16 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA24468 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:27:14 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02635; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:26:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199511111926.LAA02635@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, multimedia@star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: The Music of Doom ? Re: linux's xnetview and doom's sndserver In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:12:57 MST." <9511111712.AA29544@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:26:39 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk musserver is a linux program to play doom's mus files. so with the sndserver and musserver, doom will behave the same as in dos. The only caveat is that musserver does not work with the gus :( Anyone knows how to map sun-style msgsnd to our implementation? The scenario is that xdoom will be sending sun-style messages and we can't control that however we do have the sources for musserver. For instance, there in FreeBSD there is not text field in the msgbuf data structure. From musserver's playmus.c: void get_mesg(int flags) { int result; struct msgbuf *recv; int msize = 9; int done = 0; int x = 0; while (!done) { done = 1; recv = malloc(sizeof(long) + 9); result = msgrcv(qid, recv, msize, 0, flags + MSG_NOERROR); if (result > 0) { if (verbose >= 2) /* printf("ipc: errno = %d, result = %d, mtext = %s, qid = %d\n", errno, result, recv->mtext, qid);*/ switch (recv->mtext[0]) { --------- I placed the musserver sources on: rah.star-gate.com:/musserver.tar.gz Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 11:57:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA25769 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:57:34 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25723 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:57:18 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id UAA23236; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:57:03 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA28971; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:57:03 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA12448; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:32:29 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511111932.UAA12448@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Converting a Linux passwd file to FreeBSD To: chris@rocco.nebula.org (Chris Gann) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:32:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Chris Gann" at Nov 10, 95 07:13:19 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 570 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Chris Gann wrote: > > I > would like to convert nearly 4000 passwd entries in Linux (non-shadow) to > FreeBSD (shadowed) using the DES package, or whatever would be simplest. Provided the Linux passwd entries are DES-encoded: perl -ne '@f=split(/:/);printf "%s:%s:%s:%s::0:0:%s:%s:%s",\ $f[0],$f[1],$f[2],$f[3],$f[4],$f[5],$f[6];' \ /etc/oldpasswd > /etc/pass.tmp pwd_mkdb -p /etc/pass.tmp -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 12:36:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA29377 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 12:36:05 -0800 Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA29368 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 12:36:03 -0800 Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA05228; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:35:59 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id OAA20987; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:36:48 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511112036.OAA20987@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: panic: free vnode isn't To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 95 14:36:45 CST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511111827.FAA05713@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 12, 95 05:27:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2010 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >My 1026-SNAP news server flipped this morning, again, with this error. So > >it is an occasionally recurring problem. > > >I forgot that I needed to define DODUMP in order for it to save a dump to > >disk, but will gladly recompile another kernel and do this, if it might be > >helpful. > > No excuse :-). DODUMP hasn't existed for about 6 months. Use dumpon(8). Cool! :-) I hadn't had to do this lately, so I hadn't noticed this IMPROVEMENT! :-) ;-) > Perhaps known bogus options should be checked for in a central source file: > > #ifdef CHILD_MAX > #warning "bogus option CHILD_MAX, RTFM setrlimit(2), sh(1) (ulimit)" > #endif Ummmmmm. Okay, so what about this scene: News server, spawned at boot. News server does a setrlimit(NOFILE, 256), setrlimit(NPROC, 512). This is fine.... running about 40 nntplink processes and a variable number of nnrpd processes (50-200), it gives me reasonable safety margins. This works great. :-) Now, my cron jobs start failing because I've exceeded the 40 process default user limit. How do I bump this up and make it a default for all processes? I really don't see an obvious way other than to override CHILD_MAX and OPEN_MAX (but I would be delighted if you could show me a better way!) I don't WANT artificial limits on my news server, limits such as memoryuse, descriptors, and maxproc just wind up being a nuisance that have to be worked around. memoryuse in particular is rather insidious because it doesn't cause any crashes, it just causes the swap rates for large processes to go nutso - I've worked around this by spawning off wrapper csh's and doing "unlimit" before running my expires. > #ifdef DODUMP > #warning "bogus option DODUMP, fix your configuration and RTFM dodump(8)" > #endif > ... Thank you for any insights, ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 13:54:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA04052 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:54:40 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA04037 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:54:30 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08162; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:49:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511112149.OAA08162@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: larry: you might want to add this to lmbench (but i'm not sure) To: grog@lemis.de Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:49:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511110902.KAA19222@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Nov 11, 95 10:02:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 729 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Forgive me if I'm not critical :-) I just tried it out on two > 486DX/2-66s, one running BSD/386 1.1 and the other running FreeBSD > 951004 SNAP. I think the numbers (for 100000 iterations) speak for > themselves. > > BSD/386: 10.19 real 0.33 user 9.61 sys > FreeBSD: 54.25 real 0.82 user 52.67 sys > > People may argue that this is a silly benchmark, but I still think we > should be interested to know why FreeBSD takes over 5 times as long to > run this program. We know why. Both John Dyson and myself clearly identified the contributing factors. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 14:33:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA05641 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:33:38 -0800 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA05631 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:33:31 -0800 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA17734; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:33:25 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:33:24 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Any mirrors with latest snap? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Can't reach freefall and wcarchive is at the user limit, got a new machine I want try the release candidate on. Any mirrors where the boot.flp can obtained and with good connectivity for the release to be ftp'd ? regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 14:35:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA05871 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:35:09 -0800 Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA05856 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:35:06 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:34:55 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:34:53 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: LKM's still wont compile in -current Cc: current@freebsd.org, root@deadline.snafu.de, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >===> lkm >> >===> lkm/atapi >> >cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -nostdinc -I. -I/sys -DATAPI -DATAPI_MODULE >>-DKERNEL -I/usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys -W -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -c >>/usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c >> >In file included from /sys/sys/conf.h:205, >> > from /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c:912: >> >./machine/conf.h:14: ioconf.h: No such file or directory >> >*** Error code 1 >> >> >This __still__ happens when doing a make world. >> >> Install bsd.kmod.mk. > >Thank you. This provides an example of broken code for maintaining >-stable and -current on the same machine other than the "config" program >itself. Now can I sell "you" (the holdouts, not you Terry) on getting rid of the absolute paths? EVERYTHING needs to be referenced relative to the ROOT of the build tree. SRC, OBJ location, TOOLS, INCludes, MKfiles, etc. EVERYTHING. The default definitions can revert to the rooted definitions for the very common "special case" of compiling an update to the running system. However the general case is still that of building a totally different system to be run on another machine, perhaps even with a different kind of cpu. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 15:02:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA08849 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:02:12 -0800 Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@metal-pluto.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.65.163.227]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA08838 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:02:07 -0800 Received: from concorde.neosoft.com (root@concorde.NeoSoft.COM [206.109.14.16]) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id RAA22969; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:10:45 -0600 Received: (from dbaker@localhost) by concorde.neosoft.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id RAA26176; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:01:55 -0600 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:01:55 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Baker X-Sender: dbaker@concorde.neosoft.com To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any mirrors with latest snap? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 11 Nov 1995, Kim Culhan wrote: > > Can't reach freefall and wcarchive is at the user limit, got a new machine > I want try the release candidate on. > > Any mirrors where the boot.flp can obtained and with good connectivity > for the release to be ftp'd ? ftp://ftp.neosoft.com/systems/FreeBSD > > regards > kim > > -- > kimc@w8hd.org > > Daniel -- Daniel Baker -- NeoSoft Student Asst. (UseNet, FTP & CivNet Admin.) DBaker@NeoSoft.COM DBaker@Baker.err.COM ** http://www.neosoft.com/neosoft/staff/dbaker/ ** ** http://www.baker.err.com/ ** FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT (CONCORDE) #0: Fri Nov 3 23:52:29 CST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 15:23:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA11029 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:23:59 -0800 Received: from artemis.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (artemis.rus.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.18.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11014 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:23:50 -0800 Received: from helpdesk.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (helpdesk.rus.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.221.120]) by artemis.rus.uni-stuttgart.de with ESMTP id AAA28584 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6 for ); Sun, 12 Nov 1995 00:23:11 +0100 Received: by helpdesk.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (950511.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH526/930416.SGI/BelWue-1.1) id AAA15626; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 00:23:10 +0100 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 00:23:10 +0100 From: Kurt.Jaeger@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE (Kurt Jaeger aka PI) Message-Id: <199511112323.AAA15626@helpdesk.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? Newsgroups: list.freebsd-announce In-Reply-To: <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <5587.816024955@time.cdrom.com> you write: >Anyone got any stats they'd like to share? # of running daemons, >server used, hits-per-second, hardware used, that kind of thing. www.uni-stuttgart.de, a lowly RS/6000 Mod 360 with 128 MB RAM and some 5-10 GB disk (1 GB cache), playing proxy for a good part of Germany. Not busy (peaks of 200K real hits / day), when it comes to US standards. Its quite busy for the slow T1 links Europe is connected with normally. >P.S. Suggestions on how to make this an even more meaningful test from >those webmaniacs out there among you would also be sincerely >appreciated! Put up a good bunch of a.b.p.e.* online. This will kill the host without using any flag day 8-) So short, PI -- PI at the User Help Desk Comp.Center U of Stuttgart, FRG 25 years to go ! EMail: pi@rus.uni-stuttgart.de fon ++49 711 685-4828 (aka Kurt Jaeger) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 15:46:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA13477 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:46:19 -0800 Received: from dde.dde.dk (dde.dde.dk [152.95.32.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA13465 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:46:07 -0800 Received: by dde.dde.dk (5.61/9.3) id AA08352; Sun, 12 Nov 95 00:47:47 +0100 Received: from nessie.dde.dk by dde.dde.dk (5.61/9.3) with SMTP id AA08403; Sun, 12 Nov 95 00:47:46 +0100 Received: by nessie.dde.dk (5.61/9.3) id AA26742; Sun, 12 Nov 95 00:46:16 GMT From: kim@dde.dk (Kim Andersen) Message-Id: <9511120046.AA26742@nessie.dde.dk> Subject: Re: Anyone else think it's about time to beat a WEB server to death? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 95 0:46:13 DNT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <8352.816054219@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 10, 95 5:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > All people interested in the setup of the machines, etc, can join > > w3test@ibenet.it by sending e-mail to me > > (no automatic daemon, sorry). > > I have also set up a webtest@freebsd.org mailing alias for those folks > actually participating in setting up this test. So far, it's myself, > Piero, Jaye and Brad. Any suggestions concerning how to run the tests > or features that people are particularly interested in having tested > should be sent to this alias. Thanks! For local testing of a webservers "response" the following might be of interest: #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include /* Webmonkey.c --- when you want to know how your server responds to a * hundred monkeys all pounding on it. Transactions are replayed out of * a common-log-format log file. (We replay GETs only; sufficient data * is not logged to properly replay PUTs. Also, HTTP authentication isn't * done right, so sites which rely on it heavily will mainly see how fast * their server rejects unauthorized access). */ /* Defaults for whose back the monkey climbs ... and how hard it works */ char *default_host = "www"; int default_port = 80; int max_trans = 25; /* Maximum number of transactions at once */ int usec_per = 200000; /* Five per second for starters */ /* Mime headers sent on Monkey requests, starting with the newline which * follows the request itself */ char mime_headers[] = "\r\n" "Accept: text/plain\r\n" "Accept: application/x-html\r\n" "Accept: application/html\r\n" "Accept: text/x-html\r\n" "Accept: text/html\r\n" "Accept: application/x-hdf\r\n" "Accept: application/x-netcdf\r\n" "Accept: application/hdf\r\n" "Accept: application/netcdf\r\n" "Accept: audio/basic\r\n" "Accept: audio/x-aiff\r\n" "Accept: image/gif\r\n" "Accept: image/jpeg\r\n" "Accept: image/tiff\r\n" "Accept: image/x-portable-anymap\r\n" "Accept: image/x-portable-bitmap\r\n" "Accept: image/x-portable-graymap\r\n" "Accept: image/x-portable-pixmap\r\n" "Accept: image/x-rgb\r\n" "Accept: image/rgb\r\n" "Accept: image/x-xbitmap\r\n" "Accept: image/x-xpixmap\r\n" "Accept: image/xwd\r\n" "Accept: image/x-xwd\r\n" "Accept: image/x-xwindowdump\r\n" "Accept: video/mpeg\r\n" "Accept: application/postscript\r\n" "Accept: application/x-dvi\r\n" "Accept: message/rfc822\r\n" "Accept: application/x-latex\r\n" "Accept: application/x-tex\r\n" "Accept: application/x-texinfo\r\n" "Accept: application/x-troff\r\n" "Accept: application/x-troff-man\r\n" "Accept: application/x-troff-me\r\n" "Accept: application/x-troff-ms\r\n" "Accept: text/richtext\r\n" "Accept: text/tab-separated-values\r\n" "Accept: text/x-setext\r\n" "Accept: */*\r\n" "User-Agent: WebMonkey 0.02\r\n" "\r\n" ; #define MIME_HDR_SIZE (sizeof(mime_headers) - 1) /* Globals holding status of all current connections */ fd_set read_fds; /* FDs currently being read from */ fd_set write_fds; /* FDs currently being sent to, or * with a connection in progress... */ fd_set except_fds; /* FDs currently in use */ int transactions_in_progress = 0; int fdmax = 0; int transactions_done = 0; /* Statistics... */ int total_msecs = 0; /* State of sockets, for each possible socket... */ struct sock_status { char *request; /* Kept for as long as request is active */ struct timeval start_time; /* For statistics gathering */ char *data; /* Data *currently* being written */ int len; /* Amount to write */ int len_written; /* Amount of that done so far */ int state; /* State of the socket (see below) */ } sock_status[FD_SETSIZE]; /* Possible socket states: * (note that the appropriate bits must *also* be set in the fdsets * for anything to work...). */ #define CONNECT 0 /* Connecting */ #define WRITE_REQ 1 /* Writing request */ #define WRITE_HDR 2 /* Writing MIME header */ #define READ_RESPONSE 3 /* Reading response */ #define NSTATES 4 char *state_names[NSTATES] = { "connecting", "writing request", "writing MIME header", "reading response", }; /**************************************************************** * Time fiddling */ void add_usecs (struct timeval *dest, struct timeval *src, int usecs) { dest->tv_sec = src->tv_sec; dest->tv_usec = src->tv_usec + usec_per; if (dest->tv_usec > 1000000) { dest->tv_usec -= 1000000; dest->tv_sec += 1; } } void sub_timevals (struct timeval *dest, struct timeval *later, struct timeval *earlier) { dest->tv_sec = later->tv_sec - earlier->tv_sec; dest->tv_usec = later->tv_usec - earlier->tv_usec; if (dest->tv_usec < 0) { dest->tv_usec += 1000000; dest->tv_sec -= 1; } if (dest->tv_usec < 0 || dest->tv_sec < 0) { dest->tv_usec = dest->tv_sec = 0; } } int get_msecs (struct timeval *tm) { return tm->tv_sec * 1000 + tm->tv_usec / 1000; } /**************************************************************** * Routines to manipulate sock_status structures --- set 'em up, * tear 'em down. Note that the request is passed as malloc'ed memory * which we "own" once we get it, so it's on us to free it afterward. * * These routines also take care of a lot of the globals, to have all * that stuff in one place. */ void init_sock_status (int s, int state, char *req) { sock_status[s].state = state; sock_status[s].request = req; sock_status[s].data = req; sock_status[s].len = strlen(req); sock_status[s].len_written = 0; gettimeofday (&sock_status[s].start_time, NULL); FD_SET (s, &except_fds); /* Protocol code determines when * writes and reads are appropriate, * but we *always* want to know about * exceptional conditions. */ ++transactions_in_progress; if (s > fdmax) fdmax = s; } void finalize_sock_status (int s) { struct timeval now, interval; /* Common code in tearing down transactions: * No more I/O on this descriptor. */ FD_CLR (s, &read_fds); FD_CLR (s, &write_fds); FD_CLR (s, &except_fds); close (s); /* No more need for request text */ free (sock_status[s].request); /* Fiddle other globals and keep statistics */ gettimeofday (&now, 0); sub_timevals (&interval, &now, &sock_status[s].start_time); total_msecs += get_msecs (&interval); transactions_done += 1; --transactions_in_progress; } /**************************************************************** * Set up the globals, and find the address of the host we're * going to flog. */ void monkey_init (struct sockaddr_in *sin, char *host, int port) { struct hostent *hostp; if (!(hostp = gethostbyname(host))) { fprintf (stderr, "Can't find host %s!\n", host); exit (1); } sin->sin_family = hostp->h_addrtype; sin->sin_port = port; memcpy ((char*)&sin->sin_addr, hostp->h_addr, hostp->h_length); FD_ZERO(&read_fds); FD_ZERO(&write_fds); FD_ZERO(&except_fds); } /**************************************************************** * Make a connection on a socket; set up to continue transaction */ void monkeystart (char *req, struct sockaddr_in *sin) { int s, rv; struct sock_status *t; /* Get a socket, and set up to keep statistics on this connection */ if ((s = socket(sin->sin_family, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) < 0) { perror("webmonkey: socket"); exit(1); } init_sock_status (s, CONNECT, req); /* Set up to write the request, once the connection is accepted * (and thus, the socket shows ready for writing in select()). */ fcntl (s, F_SETFL, O_NDELAY); FD_SET (s, &write_fds); while ((rv = connect(s, (struct sockaddr *)sin, sizeof(*sin))) < 0 && errno == EINTR) continue; if (rv < 0 && errno != EINPROGRESS) { extern void monkey_except(int); monkey_except (s); /* Handle as other exceptional conditions */ } } /**************************************************************** * Continue sending an incomplete request or MIME header * on a socket clear for writing */ void monkey_write (int s) { struct sock_status *t = &sock_status[s]; int rv = write (s, t->data + t->len_written, t->len - t->len_written); if (rv <= 0) return; t->len_written += rv; if (t->len_written == t->len) switch (t->state) { case CONNECT: t->state = WRITE_REQ; /* and fall through... */ case WRITE_REQ: t->state = WRITE_HDR; /* Start writing MIME headers */ t->data = mime_headers; /* (they're boilerplate) */ t->len = MIME_HDR_SIZE; t->len_written = 0; break; case WRITE_HDR: t->state = READ_RESPONSE; FD_CLR (s, &write_fds); /* Done with (boilerplate) headers */ FD_SET (s, &read_fds); /* Read HTTP response */ break; default: fprintf (stderr, "Weird, weird --- write ready on socket with state %d\n", t->state); FD_CLR (s, &write_fds); break; } } /* Continue reading the response to a request to which the server * is now replying. */ void monkey_read (int s) { char dummybuf[8192]; int rv = read (s, dummybuf, 8192); if (rv == 0) finalize_sock_status(s); } /* Handle exceptions (if they occur) --- just close the damn * socket and forget about it. */ void monkey_except(int s) { fprintf (stderr, "Error on \"%s\", while %s\n", sock_status[s].request, state_names[sock_status[s].state]); finalize_sock_status(s); } /* Do *all* I/O for transactions currently in progress */ void do_transactions(struct timeval *timeout) { fd_set my_read_fds = read_fds; fd_set my_write_fds = write_fds; fd_set my_except_fds = except_fds; int nfds = select (fdmax + 1, &my_read_fds, &my_write_fds, &my_except_fds, timeout); int i; for (i = 0; i <= fdmax; ++i) { if (FD_ISSET (i, &my_except_fds)) monkey_except(i); else if (FD_ISSET (i, &my_read_fds)) monkey_read(i); else if (FD_ISSET (i, &my_write_fds)) monkey_write(i); } } /* Get a request out of the log file we're replaying */ char * get_request (FILE *log) { static char reqbuffer[1024]; char *reqp; while (fgets (reqbuffer, sizeof(reqbuffer), log)) { char *cp = reqbuffer; /* Find start of request... */ while (*cp && *cp != '"') ++cp; if (!*cp) continue; reqp = ++cp; /* Find and flag end of request */ while (*cp && *cp != '"') ++cp; if (!*cp) continue; *cp = '\0'; /* Sanity check the request... */ if (!strncmp (reqp, "GET ", 4)) return strdup(reqp); } return NULL; } /* Executive */ int main (int argc, char **argv) { int port = default_port; char *host = default_host; FILE *log = stdin; int skip = 0; int last_stats_printout; int lost_transactions = 0; struct sockaddr_in sin; struct timeval now; struct timeval next_start; struct timeval interval; while (*++argv) { if (!strcmp (*argv, "-host")) host = *++argv; else if (!strcmp (*argv, "-port")) port = atoi(*++argv); else if (!strcmp (*argv, "-max")) max_trans = atoi(*++argv); else if (!strcmp (*argv, "-usec")) usec_per = atoi(*++argv); else if (!strcmp (*argv, "-skip")) skip = atoi (*++argv); else if (!strcmp (*argv, "-per")) { double atof (char*); double per = atof (*++argv); usec_per = (int)(1e6 / per); } else if (!strcmp (*argv, "-log")) { log = fopen (*++argv, "r"); if (log == NULL) { perror(log); exit(1); } } else { fprintf (stderr, "Usage: webmonkey [-host h] [-port p] [-max max_transactions]\n" " [-per connects_per_second] [-log logname]\n"); exit (1); } } printf ("Webmonkey: Flogging %s at port %d\n", host, port); printf ("New transaction every %d microseconds, up to %d\n", usec_per, max_trans); while (skip > 0) { int c = getc(log); if (c == EOF) { fprintf (stderr, "Skipped past end of log!\n"); exit(1); } if (c == '\n') --skip; } monkey_init (&sin, host, port); signal (SIGPIPE, SIG_IGN); last_stats_printout = 1; gettimeofday (&now, 0); add_usecs (&next_start, &now, usec_per); while (1) { if ((transactions_done + lost_transactions) > last_stats_printout && (transactions_done + lost_transactions) % 100 == 0) { if (lost_transactions == 0) printf ("Done %d transactions; average response %d msecs.\n", transactions_done, total_msecs / transactions_done); else printf ("Done %d transactions (missed %d); average response %d msecs.\n", transactions_done, lost_transactions, total_msecs / transactions_done); last_stats_printout = transactions_done + lost_transactions; } gettimeofday (&now, 0); if (now.tv_sec > next_start.tv_sec || (now.tv_sec == next_start.tv_sec && now.tv_usec >= next_start.tv_usec)) { /* Time to fire off a new request */ char *request = get_request(log); if (!request) exit(0); add_usecs (&next_start, &next_start, usec_per); if (transactions_in_progress > max_trans) ++lost_transactions; else monkeystart (request, &sin); } /* Do I/O, or pause, until it's time to fire off the next one. */ sub_timevals (&interval, &next_start, &now); do_transactions (&interval); } } From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 16:07:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA13969 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:07:06 -0800 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13963 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:07:04 -0800 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA17932; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:07:03 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:07:03 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: boot.flp for 1104 snap broken Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The installation on this snap appears broken, here are the details: 1) Booting from the floppy and into the menu-driven installation, I tried to create a FreeBSD 'partition' which appeared to work Ok. 2) Trying to create partitions and label same I can create some partitions (even using the autodefaults choice) but then it blows-up, complaining first that its unable to write to the swap partition "WARNING! Unable to swap to /dev/sd0s1b: Device not configured" next, it can't create the root partition; Switching to the alternate console it says, among other things: newfs: /dev/rsd0a: 'a' partition is unavailable After printing a number of statements relating to MakeDev. This after first having created a 5 mb dos partition with dos fdisk which I think is still needed to give the FreeBSD install some geometry info. The dos partition appears to be read/writeable. Any help here is greatly appreciated. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 16:12:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA14132 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:12:25 -0800 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA14127 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:12:21 -0800 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA17954; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:12:20 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:12:20 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: addendum to my broken flp post Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The hardware in use is mostly the same as has been used recently: 486DX33 Buslogic 445C controller Maxtor MXT1240S disk Sorry to leave out the basics.. kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 16:48:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA15051 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:48:14 -0800 Received: from vinkku.hut.fi (root@vinkku.hut.fi [130.233.245.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA15043 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:48:11 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-20.hut.fi (lk-hp-20.hut.fi [130.233.247.33]) by vinkku.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) with ESMTP id CAA29538 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 02:47:58 +0200 From: Juha Inkari Received: (inkari@localhost) by lk-hp-20.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) id CAA07640 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 02:48:02 +0200 Message-Id: <199511120048.CAA07640@lk-hp-20.hut.fi> Subject: install trouble on 1104 SNAP To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 02:48:01 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2280 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Basically, I was unable to install the 2.1.0-951104-SNAP with the boot disk installer. Below is a short failure report, but I can provide more detailed description of the setup, and retry the troublesome operations, if anybody wants to hear more of it. Trouble hardware was 486DX266MHz, 32M ram, Adaptec 1542B, Quantum Grand Prix XP34301 4G drive. I went with the "expert" installation menu, and used the partition, and disklabel editors. * fdisk and geometry "Fdisk" editor reported all sorts of drive geometries varying from 4076 cylinders to 200000 cylinders. The values that it did not complain to be incompatible with BIOS were 14703/13/44 (cyl/heads/sectors). The drives "natural" geometry is 4076 cyls, 20 heads, and average 103 sectors per track. With the fdisk editor, I tried one slice, two slice and totally dedicated disk partitions (with different geometries) and run into trouble with the disk label editor. * label editor: panics and failures After determining the partition sizes (with, for example the auto calculation option) and trying to write out the changes, what happens is: Sometimes I get panic, in "alloc bounce buffer" routine or similar. Other times the add swap and newfs commands just fail. This seems to be due to disklabel, that does not seem to have made its way to the disk at all. Panics seem to be involved with disk configured to one or two slices and the latter newfs symptoms with the "totally dedicated" disk configuration. * disk is ok After all, I was able to install to the disk manually (fdisk, hand generated disklabel etc.) with a little help from already running system. * label editor: not recognizing the disklabel And when I return to the installer's label editor after written the disklabel and creating the filesystems, the label editor does not seem to recognize the label and filesystems (so that I could mount from the label editor, and proceed with the installation). * extract only not finding distributions And one thing with the extract only operation in the installer. It complained that it could not find the distribution, when the normal commit procedure finds the files. It seems, that if I do extract only, it assumes name/name.tgz, whereas the normal installer commit looks from name/name.aa etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 19:39:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA20495 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:39:12 -0800 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA20488 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:39:02 -0800 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA18296; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:38:59 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:38:58 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: getting close - 1104-snap ed0 not working Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk All previous problems overcome, -one remains.. Running the boot.flp from ~/floppies/new (11/07) and the ed0 driver looks like its not working. Using an SMC 'Elite16 Combo', usually very solid for Freebsd. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 19:51:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA21006 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:51:14 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA21001 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:51:10 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14044; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:50:54 -0800 To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: boot.flp for 1104 snap broken In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:07:03 EST." Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:50:54 -0800 Message-ID: <14041.816148254@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The installation on this snap appears broken, here are the details: > > 1) Booting from the floppy and into the menu-driven installation, I tried > to create a FreeBSD 'partition' which appeared to work Ok. > > 2) Trying to create partitions and label same I can create some partitions > (even using the autodefaults choice) but then it blows-up, complaining > first that its unable to write to the swap partition You used `(W)rite' from the label screen, didn't you? This has been proven, for reasons I'm still unable to fathom, not to work for systems that are not yet installed. I have therefore put LARGE warning letters telling people to not use it for anything but tweaking an existing system. You'll see this in 2.1. Don't use Write. Do your commit step in one go. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 19:58:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA21236 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:58:46 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA21227 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:58:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14087; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:58:29 -0800 To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: getting close - 1104-snap ed0 not working In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:38:58 EST." Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:58:29 -0800 Message-ID: <14085.816148709@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > All previous problems overcome, -one remains.. > > Running the boot.flp from ~/floppies/new (11/07) and the ed0 driver > looks like its not working. > > Using an SMC 'Elite16 Combo', usually very solid for Freebsd. You sure it matches your hardware? You've booted with -c and made positively sure it matches what the SMC is set to? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 20:04:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA21473 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:04:12 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA21464 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:04:07 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA14118; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:03:47 -0800 To: Juha Inkari cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install trouble on 1104 SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Nov 1995 02:48:01 +0200." <199511120048.CAA07640@lk-hp-20.hut.fi> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:03:47 -0800 Message-ID: <14116.816149027@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > "Fdisk" editor reported all sorts of drive geometries varying from > 4076 cylinders to 200000 cylinders. The values that it did not > complain to be incompatible with BIOS were 14703/13/44 > (cyl/heads/sectors). The drives "natural" geometry is 4076 cyls, 20 > heads, and average 103 sectors per track. > > With the fdisk editor, I tried one slice, two slice and totally > dedicated disk partitions (with different geometries) and run into > trouble with the disk label editor. Well, hang on now. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too! :) If you're going to use partitions, then you MUST MUST MUST use the *right* geometry, and that rarely has anything to do with the "natural" geometry. Read the docs (and don't use expert mode - you've just disqualified yourself :-) that say how to determine the correct geometry using the various DOS utilities provided in the tools/ directory, or install a small DOS partition (as recommended by those same docs) and let FreeBSD "snoop" on it. If you don't want to think about geometry then use the "(A)ll" disk feature and choose the "dangerously dedicated" option to really and truly use the *entire* disk for FreeBSD. Then geometry becomes irrelevant. It's all in the docs! It's all in the docs! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 20:08:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA21693 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:08:14 -0800 Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA21685 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:08:10 -0800 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA23797 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:08:05 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03076 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:02:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199511120402.UAA03076@geli.clusternet> X-Authentication-Warning: geli.clusternet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: New lmbench results, FreeBSD anomaly for TCP large transfers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:02:27 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Finally got the (trivial) performance anomaly figured out for the TCP bandwith tests. As Larry suggested, setting the "SOCKOPT_*" to SOCKOPT_NONE fixed the atrocious results from bw_tcp.c. My systems' performance using this change will show up as *.clusternet in post 11/11/95 lmbench papers. FreeBSD's performance is ahem not bad. Here's the q, why is FreeBSD sensitive here? Thanks, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 20:36:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA22690 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:36:33 -0800 Received: from gateway.net.hk (root@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA22685 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:36:27 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by gateway.net.hk (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA21993; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 12:29:47 +0800 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 12:29:47 +0800 (HKT) From: System Administrator To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd crash after inode depletion.. In-Reply-To: <199511070233.UAA12359@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > My news server (second latest SNAP release) just freaked. After the upgrade > fiasco this weekend that saw my news system down for about 36 hours, some of > the disks are running a little too full. I got a warning and then when I > tried to telnet in, > > Nov 6 19:56:59 hummin /kernel: uid 8 on /news/.0: out of inodes > Nov 6 19:57:00 hummin /kernel: uid 8 on /news/.0: out of inodes > Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: panic: free vnode isn't > Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: > Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: syncing disks... 3 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 giving up > Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort > Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: Rebooting... > > Since I was coming in from remote, I cannot say for sure that my telnet-in > tickled the strange panic (I never got any connect message, etc) but it is > almost precisely the time I tried telnetting in. > > Just in case it matters to anyone... > > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > I do not believe it is bug. news uses *lots* of small files. A news filesystem should be newfs for smaller blocks and more inodes. see man newfs -b and -i jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 20:46:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA23533 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:46:37 -0800 Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA23528 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:46:31 -0800 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA13167 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:46:29 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03770 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:40:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199511120440.UAA03770@geli.clusternet> X-Authentication-Warning: geli.clusternet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: That G&*()m process limit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:40:50 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok. I'm addicted. I'm facing up to my addiction, I think I'm through denial, but... why oh why, is the default RLIMIT_NPROC set so low??? I'm working on two years here, neveh' had to (re)set this. With my current 2-CPU setup, fvwm and exmh get launched off a single server, and apparently consume more than 100 child_proc PIDs apiece... Jordan sets his to 400, maybe the default should be higher than 40? Regards, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 20:54:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA23798 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:54:29 -0800 Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (root@Lapkin.RoSprint.ru [193.232.88.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA23783 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:54:21 -0800 Received: (from sandy@localhost) by Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA04406; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 07:52:12 +0300 From: Sandy Kovshov Message-Id: <199511120452.HAA04406@Lapkin.RoSprint.ru> Subject: Re: Odd crash after inode depletion.. To: root@gateway.net.hk (System Administrator) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 07:52:11 +0300 (MSK) Cc: jgreco@solaria.sol.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "System Administrator" at Nov 12, 95 12:29:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1113 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Nov 6 19:56:59 hummin /kernel: uid 8 on /news/.0: out of inodes > > Nov 6 19:57:00 hummin /kernel: uid 8 on /news/.0: out of inodes > > Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: panic: free vnode isn't > > Nov 6 20:10:17 hummin /kernel: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > > > I do not believe it is bug. news uses *lots* of small files. A news > filesystem should be newfs for smaller blocks and more inodes. see man > newfs -b and -i > jbeukema Nov 12 04:31:00 x400gw.RoSprint.net /kernel: uid 0 on /: out of inodes Nov 12 04:31:00 x400gw.RoSprint.net last message repeated 2 times I've got this message. Then system destroys my / partition. I also believe that was'nt a bug. I think it is nice feature added in kernel. ;) --- Sandy E-mail: Internet: sandy@dream.demos.su sandy@www.RoSprint.ru X.400: (C:USSR,A:SOVMAIL,O:SNUSSR,UN:A.KOVSHOV) X.400: (C:USA,A:TELEMAIL,O:SPRINTINTL,UN:A.KOVSHOV) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 20:57:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA24138 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:57:58 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA24133 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:57:55 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA14274; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:57:42 -0800 To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: That G&*()m process limit In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:40:50 PST." <199511120440.UAA03770@geli.clusternet> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 20:57:42 -0800 Message-ID: <14272.816152262@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > With my current 2-CPU setup, fvwm and exmh get launched off a single > server, and apparently consume more than 100 child_proc PIDs apiece... > > Jordan sets his to 400, maybe the default should be higher than 40? No argument from me! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 21:18:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA24512 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:18:23 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA24507 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:18:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA14334; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:16:27 -0800 To: Sandy Kovshov cc: root@gateway.net.hk (System Administrator), jgreco@solaria.sol.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd crash after inode depletion.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Nov 1995 07:52:11 +0300." <199511120452.HAA04406@Lapkin.RoSprint.ru> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:16:27 -0800 Message-ID: <14332.816153387@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I've got this message. Then system destroys my / partition. I also > believe that was'nt a bug. I think it is nice feature added in kernel. ;) I have a hard time believing that the two are related. I've exhausted inodes on our news server quite a few times (and on some of my own machines) without any data corruption whatsoever. Be careful making assertions like this if you're not *really sure* that a relationship exists. I do not see any of the investigative work required to prove this one way or another given here. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 22:22:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA25292 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:22:49 -0800 Received: from mystery.milleredp.com (root@mystery.milleredp.com [205.184.29.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA25286 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:22:47 -0800 Received: from tincan (tincan.milleredp.com [205.184.29.3]) by mystery.milleredp.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA21285 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:19:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199511120519.VAA21285@mystery.milleredp.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "John Edward Miller" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:21:20 +0000 Subject: 2.0.5-R, Cyrus IMAPd, getpwnam() ? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I stand prepared to accept that it's my own idiocy, as (1) I'm no *nix wiz and (2) it's been about 2 yrs since I've laid finger to the curly-brace key in actually writing code, but... I'm trying to build the CMU Cyrus IMAP mail server on FreeBSD 2.0.5. I've encountered a couple minor glitches (one lex/flex _yylineno issue, their makefiles use makedepend and I hadn't installed X, and the need to include libcrypt.a in the lib list). After some monkeying around with trying to find shadow.h a subsequent R of TFManpages tells me that FreeBSD has shadow-password support in the standard pwd functions. Therefore I assume Cyrus should be built with unix/getpwnam() authentication and not unix_shadow/getspnam(). So far so good; it builds, inetd starts it. The problem: Upon attempting to log in, no matter what user, all passwords fail validation. If I start imapd as a command at a shell prompt and just talk to it via stdin/stdout, correct passwords do allow login. After some fiddling with gdb and adding some additional debug code, it's apparent that getpwnam() is (correctly) retrieving the encrypted password from master.passwd when it's run at the shell prompt, but (incorrectly) getting the * from passwd when run through imapd. Is it me? Is it a permission problem? A shared-library issue somehow? The imapd binary is owned by root.bin. Instant comprehensive fixes preferred ;-); any useful info or pointers appreciated. Thanks. John. --------------------------------------------------------------- "It's not possible to belong to a club if one has to arrest the members; it's not sociable" - Marquis de Galliffet From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 23:01:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA26335 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:01:08 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA26329 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:01:06 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id AAA25912; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 00:58:01 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511120658.AAA25912@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Odd crash after inode depletion.. To: root@gateway.net.hk (System Administrator) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 00:58:00 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@solaria.sol.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "System Administrator" at Nov 12, 95 12:29:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I do not believe it is bug. news uses *lots* of small files. A news > filesystem should be newfs for smaller blocks and more inodes. see man > newfs -b and -i > jbeukema The fs in question was newfs'd -b 4096 -f 512. On this partition, which I believe holds rec.*, I have noticed that this yields an almost 1-to-1 correspondence between percentage-disk and percentage-inodes :-) Usually -b 4096 -f 512 yields a higher pct-disk than pct-inodes... Just a curiousity. ;-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 11 23:41:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA27757 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:41:35 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA27752 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:41:33 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id BAA26010; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 01:40:29 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511120740.BAA26010@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Odd crash after inode depletion.. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 01:40:28 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <14332.816153387@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 11, 95 09:16:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I've got this message. Then system destroys my / partition. I also > > believe that was'nt a bug. I think it is nice feature added in kernel. ;) > > I have a hard time believing that the two are related. I've exhausted > inodes on our news server quite a few times (and on some of my own > machines) without any data corruption whatsoever. > > Be careful making assertions like this if you're not *really sure* > that a relationship exists. I do not see any of the investigative > work required to prove this one way or another given here. I've noticed an infrequent but consistent tendency for the system to panic with "free vnode isn't" some time after hitting inode exhaustion. With a sample size of only a few instances, all I can establish is that I have NOT seen a "free vnode isn't" panic without first having run out of inodes. (system is running 1026-SNAP, by the way, which may be significant - I never saw this panic under 2.0.5R, but then again, I can't recall ever having run out of inodes under 2.0.5R) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847