From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 29 10:41:44 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24971 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:41:44 -0800 Received: from hermes.intel.com (hermes.intel.com [143.183.152.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24945 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:41:36 -0800 From: olsenc@ichips.intel.com Received: from [134.134.50.200] by hermes.intel.com (5.65/10.0i); Wed, 29 Mar 95 10:40:50 -0800 Received: from dtt030 by ichips.intel.com (5.64+/10.0i); Wed, 29 Mar 95 10:40:45 -0800 Received: by dtt030.intel.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/10.0i); Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:40:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:40:43 -0800 Message-Id: <9503291840.AA50731@dtt030.intel.com> To: hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Questions about NCR PCI SCSI driver Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello: I asked this before. It seems as though I have to ask each question twice to get an answer from this group. Will performing certain SCSI operations in FreeBSD (say tape rewind) cause the SCSI bus to hang until completion? People have complained about this in Linux because the driver is not polished. Hopefully, someone who uses this device can testify that things are working ok or not. Thanks, -Clint From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 29 14:41:36 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA03927 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:41:36 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA03921 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:41:34 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id AAA21305 ; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:46 +0200 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23880; Thu, 30 Mar 95 00:41:18 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9503292241.AA23880@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Questions about NCR PCI SCSI driver To: olsenc@ichips.intel.com Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:18 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9503291840.AA50731@dtt030.intel.com> from "olsenc@ichips.intel.com" at Mar 29, 95 10:40:43 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#480 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 873 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I asked this before. It seems as though I have to ask each question twice > to get an answer from this group. Hmmm, this is the first time I see this question. Anyway : > Will performing certain SCSI operations in FreeBSD (say tape rewind) cause the > SCSI bus to hang until completion? People have complained about this in > Linux because the driver is not polished. Hopefully, someone who uses this > device can testify that things are working ok or not. If the SCSI bus was hung during rewind I'd have noticed as I have only SCSI devices... No bus hang down here. I don't see why there must be a hang either. You send the command to the device and that's all (at least to my understanding of SCSI operations). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 29 16:53:07 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA09991 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:53:07 -0800 Received: from MATH.ORST.EDU (MATH.ORST.EDU [128.193.80.160]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA09981 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:53:06 -0800 Received: from joshjr.MATH.ORST.EDU ([128.193.80.45]) by MATH.ORST.EDU (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21292; Wed, 29 Mar 95 16:52:51 PST Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 16:52:51 PST From: Jason Murbach Message-Id: <9503300052.AA21292@MATH.ORST.EDU> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Future Domain TMC-850MER/950 SCSI Controller Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm having problems getting FreeBSD to use my Future Domain SCSI controller. I've tried installing FreeBSD with the 2.0-Release, and the two newer SNAP releases, with no success. When I boot my machine, FreeBSD recognizes the sea0 controller, then goes on to say "Waiting for SCSI devices to settle", then just hangs forever... Any help would be appreciated. thanks, Jason. From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Mar 30 05:59:09 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA27461 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 05:59:09 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA27455 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 05:59:06 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id IAA02568; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:03:33 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199503301303.IAA02568@hda.com> Subject: Re: Questions about NCR PCI SCSI driver To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:03:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: olsenc@ichips.intel.com, hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9503292241.AA23880@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Mar 30, 95 00:41:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2300 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert writes: > > > I asked this before. It seems as though I have to ask each question twice > > to get an answer from this group. > > Hmmm, this is the first time I see this question. > > Anyway : > > > Will performing certain SCSI operations in FreeBSD (say tape rewind) cause the > > SCSI bus to hang until completion? People have complained about this in > > Linux because the driver is not polished. Hopefully, someone who uses this > > device can testify that things are working ok or not. > > If the SCSI bus was hung during rewind I'd have noticed as I have only > SCSI devices... No bus hang down here. The SCSI bus would only hang if you don't allow disconnects and specified the "immediate" bit in the rewind command as 0 so that the tape didn't return until the rewind was complete. You can set up your host adapters so that they won't let a device disconnect, if you have a 1542C look on the setup screen and you'll find a place you can prevent a device from disconnecting. This will give the SCSI bus hang behavior we don't want. When you tell the tape to rewind the command usually won't return until the tape is rewound, but the bus should be free. Are you sure about this in Linux? It is hard for me to figure out how they could consistently arrange such bad behavior across all host adapters. Maybe the driver won't take other commands? That seems easier to get consistently wrong but pretty far fetched. > > I don't see why there must be a hang either. You send the command to the > device and that's all (at least to my understanding of SCSI operations). I wish this were true. Basically you issue the command and if it will take a while the device disconnects and later reconnects when ready to supply the results of the command. Unfortunately some of these devices out there are designed for BDDB (brain dead dos boxes) and do stupid things. The standard firmware in the Microtek Scanner, again, will not disconnect while it is scanning. This means it will hold up the SCSI bus while it moves the scanner across a one inch band and then finally sends up the data. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Mar 30 06:55:16 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA28437 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 06:55:16 -0800 Received: from irbs.com ([199.182.75.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA28431 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 06:55:13 -0800 Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA02109; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:53:32 -0500 From: John Capo Message-Id: <199503301453.JAA02109@irbs.com> Subject: Re: Questions about NCR PCI SCSI driver To: olsenc@ichips.intel.com Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:53:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503291840.AA50731@dtt030.intel.com> from "olsenc@ichips.intel.com" at Mar 29, 95 10:40:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1513 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk olsenc@ichips.intel.com writes: > > Hello: > > I asked this before. It seems as though I have to ask each question twice > to get an answer from this group. > > Will performing certain SCSI operations in FreeBSD (say tape rewind) cause the > SCSI bus to hang until completion? People have complained about this in > Linux because the driver is not polished. Hopefully, someone who uses this > device can testify that things are working ok or not. > A target will release the bus during execution of a command if the initiator has granted the target permission to disconnect and the target chooses to disconnect. The target is in control of the opertion and can not be forced to disconnect from the bus. Most all modern SCSI targets will disconnect, if allowed to, even when it would be more efficient and faster for them not to disconnect. I have used several SCSI tape drives with 1542-[ABC] controllers and the all released the bus as expected. I am sure the NCR driver behaves the same way. I say most modern SCSI devices because one of my real world projects is a multi-channel digital audio recorder. This embedded system has dual SCSI busses with multiple initiators and targets. My client was approached by a company that wanted to produce a custom RAID unit for them, an agreement was struck and the RAID unit was delivered. It _DID NOT DISCONNECT_. Needless to say, it was not accepted. BTW, this project uses a MC68340 CPU and FreeBSD is the cross-development environment. John Capo From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Apr 1 11:34:43 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA26366 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:34:43 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA26357 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:34:39 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA03686; Sat, 1 Apr 95 19:34:19 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA07355; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 12:34:27 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 12:34:27 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504011934.AA07355@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Crazy idea Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was just browsing through a selection of Pentium motherboards for our next system and noticed that the boards without CPUs are US$200 to $300 cheaper than those with CPUs. Now, Intel is sending me an FDIV-bug-free Pentium CPU, but in return I have to send back my buggy CPU or have a $50 charge appear on my credit card. Do you think it's at all expedient to just keep the buggy CPU and save $150 to $250 off a CPU-less motherboard? I can live with the FDIV bug. -- Sean Kelly NOAA/ERL Forecast Systems Laboratory Boulder Colorado USA From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Apr 1 11:41:51 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA26480 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:41:51 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA26474 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:41:47 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA11929; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:41:22 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504011941.LAA11929@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Crazy idea To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:41:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504011934.AA07355@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Apr 1, 95 12:34:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1091 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I was just browsing through a selection of Pentium motherboards for > our next system and noticed that the boards without CPUs are US$200 to > $300 cheaper than those with CPUs. This must be for 60 or 66MHz CPU chips. Or maybe even a 75MHz, here are some ``very good spot prices'' from one source for CPU chips: Pentium 100 CPU Bug Free........................$ 699 Pentium 90 CPU Bug Free ........................$ 564 Pentium 75 CPU Bug Free.........................$ 334 > Now, Intel is sending me an FDIV-bug-free Pentium CPU, but in return I > have to send back my buggy CPU or have a $50 charge appear on my > credit card. Ahh.. I think you dropped a digit there, last I had on Intel's charges for not returning the CPU chip was $550 for a P54C-90, and $400 for a P5-60. > Do you think it's at all expedient to just keep the buggy CPU and save > $150 to $250 off a CPU-less motherboard? I can live with the FDIV bug. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Apr 1 11:45:13 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA26843 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:45:13 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA26825 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:45:10 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA03859; Sat, 1 Apr 95 19:44:49 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA07664; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 12:44:53 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 12:44:53 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504011944.AA07664@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504011941.LAA11929@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Crazy idea Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Rodney" == Rodney W Grimes writes: Rodney> This must be for 60 or 66MHz CPU chips. 66MHz, right. Rodney> Ahh.. I think you dropped a digit there, last I had on Rodney> Intel's charges for not returning the CPU chip was $550 Rodney> for a P54C-90, and $400 for a P5-60. Good lord, I hope not! Let me double-check the letter they sent me. --k From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Apr 1 18:27:01 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA19839 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 18:27:01 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA19833 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 18:26:58 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id VAA05628; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 21:17:56 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 21:17:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Crazy idea To: Sean Kelly cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504011934.AA07355@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Sean Kelly wrote: > Do you think it's at all expedient to just keep the buggy CPU and save > $150 to $250 off a CPU-less motherboard? I can live with the FDIV bug. > > -- > Sean Kelly > NOAA/ERL Forecast Systems Laboratory ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!!! now i understand why the weather reports are so routinely inaccurate. ;))) sorry, sean, just couldn't resist. Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Apr 1 19:56:03 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA21754 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 19:56:03 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA21748 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 19:56:01 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA12389; Sun, 2 Apr 95 03:55:39 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA12731; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 20:55:28 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 20:55:28 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504020355.AA12731@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: (jmb@kryten.atinc.com) Subject: Re: Crazy idea Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan M Bresler writes: >> -- Sean Kelly NOAA/ERL Forecast Systems Laboratory Jonathan> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!!! Jonathan> now i understand why the weather reports are so Jonathan> routinely inaccurate. Heh, heh! I can't explain that---I just work here :-) Jonathan> sorry, sean, just couldn't resist. No problem! --k