From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 01:51:25 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA16827 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 01:51:25 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA16818 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 01:51:20 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA09255; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 01:50:01 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508130850.BAA09255@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: leo@lisa.rur.com (Leo Papandreou) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 01:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: vince@penzance.econ.yale.edu, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, john@zyqad.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Leo Papandreou" at Aug 13, 95 01:32:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1730 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > _The_ 9G drive to have is the Micropolis 1991. Quantum does not > > make a drive in this capacity (or didn't as of my last product brief > > update 4 weeks ago) and I wouldn't trust 9G of data to Seagates version > > of the 9G drive. [About the only Seagate I will even sell right now is > > the Hawk series as it has shown to be one of Seagates good drive lines] > > I have a Hawk and a Barracuda and recommend them both with the following > proviso: The Barracuda runs very hot. I have it mounted in a server case > containing 3 fans (5 if you count the power supply and CPU.) One of the > fans blows directly across it. Still warm to the touch but not worth getting > paranoid over. Performance wise it rocks. And that ``proviso'' is one many are not willing to live with. If a drive requires that type of external cooling air blown at it, then something is seriously wrong. The Barracuda series of drives have had a very hight field FIT (failure in time) rate due to this problem. The hawk drives on the other hand do not run near as hot, have not had high FIT rates in the field and seem to be doing just fine performance wise. So, why recommend a drive we know to have problems with cooling? I don't, you may with your `proviso'', but I can't afford to do that, as ultimately, I am the one who will have to handle the RMA if I sell them. Read my .signature, and then think about what I said, and you may fully understand why I said it :-) :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD ^^^^^^^^ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 02:20:03 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA17881 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 02:20:03 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA17869 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 02:19:59 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA18501; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 19:20:15 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508130950.TAA18501@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 19:20:15 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, john@zyqad.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508111659.JAA04184@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 11, 95 09:59:00 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2174 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > But that's what I'm getting at; if you take a 1G disk that costs twice as > > much as some other 500M disk, it'll generally have _better_ performance > > characteristics. > XX. BAS DEC3053L Dec/Quantum 535MB 3.5"x1", SCSI-II, 5400 RPM, 9.5mS $ 195.00 > XX. MER FUJ-1606S Fujitsu M1606S 1.0GB 3.5"x1" 5400RPM 10mS $ 427.00 > > Those are my current best price point drives in both sizes. Note that my > best 535MB drive is actually less than 1/2 the price of my best 1G drive, > and it has a _faster_ seek time, and all my iozone and bonnie data says > the DEC3053L is a clear winner over the 1606S. Accepted for your locale, note that I observed later in the message that circumstances here are somewhat different: > > It's nice if you can afford it; here the price point is on the 1G disks, > > so that's what I recommend. It's an interesting approach, though. I'm (although this is subject to my getting a better price on the 500M units; currently the best I've seen is a shade under AUS$500) > be at $1560, making the M3243 a clear winner in the <$1400 range. But, > performance would be _far_ better with the 8 drives _if_ you can load > balance the application accross multiple spindls _or_ you had stripping > technology in the OS you where running. Hmm; sounds like a mix of disks may be a profitable idea. Ta for the suggestion. > For any current production performance class scsi controller (bt, aha, ncr) > the above mutliple drive support in the BIOS is a given. Your talking about > abosolete, no longer avaliable, low performance controllers if they are > missing this feature. Great. I can forget about it as an issue then. > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 06:13:12 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA22254 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 06:13:12 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA22248 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 06:13:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA00616 ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 14:12:47 +0100 X-Message: This is a dial-up site. Quick responses to e-mails should not be relied upon. Thanks! To: -Vince- cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Aug 1995 01:01:19 EDT." Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 14:12:46 +0100 Message-ID: <614.808319566@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , -V ince- writes: > Oh okay... How are these drives actually mounted? Is it in some >sort of enclosure? 2 rack bays holding 4 5.25" drives each, and one rack bay capable of holding 9 (I think) 3.5" drives (and one drive may be internal to the cpu case of wcarchive, I can't remember). The 3.5" bay is the sort you see RAID arrays made out of... > Hmmm, what about memory wise on both machines? wcarchive: 128Mb freefall: 48Mb Gary From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 07:37:24 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA25334 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 07:37:24 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA25328 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 07:37:15 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA29997; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 00:32:58 +1000 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 00:32:58 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508131432.AAA29997@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, vince@penzance.econ.yale.edu Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, john@zyqad.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I forgot who mentioned on the list that 4 GB was the limit. What >>brand is the 9GB SCSI on news.cdrom.com? >Sorry? They're lying/mistaken. It used to be a 2GB limit (not 4 - they >were unsigned ints), but that restriction vanished quite a while ago >(somewhere between 2.0 and 2.0.5). AFAIR, it's now 1TB. The limit for disk addresses used to be 4GB (not 2 - they (sic) were unsigned ints), due to localized bugs in the disk block to byte conversion macros. This was fixed quite a while ago. Now the limit is 31 bits of disk block address and 9 bits of DEV_BSIZE size for a total of 2^40 = 1TB. The limit for file sizes and mmap offsets and/or addresses is 2GB due to sign extension bugs everywhere. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 09:13:21 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA29502 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 09:13:21 -0700 Received: from pelican.com (pelican.com [134.24.4.62]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA29494 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 09:13:16 -0700 Received: from puffin.pelican.com by pelican.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0shfey-000K2lC; Sun, 13 Aug 95 09:13 WET DST Received: (from pete@localhost) by puffin.pelican.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA01053; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 09:13:12 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 09:13:12 -0700 From: Pete Carah Message-Id: <199508131613.JAA01053@puffin.pelican.com> To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508130850.BAA09255@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199508130850.BAA09255@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Rod writes: ..... >> I have a Hawk and a Barracuda and recommend them both with the following >> proviso: The Barracuda runs very hot. I have it mounted in a server case >> containing 3 fans (5 if you count the power supply and CPU.) One of the >> fans blows directly across it. Still warm to the touch but not worth getting >> paranoid over. Performance wise it rocks. >And that ``proviso'' is one many are not willing to live with. If a drive >requires that type of external cooling air blown at it, then something is >seriously wrong. Well, the official word from SGI is to not mount Barracuda drives internal to any SGI except the large Challenge/Onyx rack for this reason. (old indigo, indy, all older machines; actually they may have improved cooling on indigo2 but I don't remember...) There are a couple of other drive lines in that list but I don't remember which either. >The Barracuda series of drives have had a very hight field FIT (failure in >time) rate due to this problem. The hawk drives on the other hand do not >run near as hot, have not had high FIT rates in the field and seem to be >doing just fine performance wise. 7200 RPM costs you, in various ways. I don't want the 2gb Barracuda in the same room with me, either (holds hands to ears :-)... (though my manager did put one on my desk for a while) >Read my .signature, and then think about what I said, and you may fully >understand why I said it :-) :-) Barracuda drives seem just fine in the "appropriate" external case... We've run a bunch (~20) of them (2gb model) for >1.5 yrs in whatever case Western Scientific furnishes, and a few in cases from Legacy (?) (I think they are the same...), without *any* drive failures (well, there was one in a week; I somehow doubt that was from this cause). We have seen the usual problem with non-ideal scsi cables; the SGI indy's are especially susceptible to this (along with the older 1542C's that Rod has already commented on, and whatever else). (actually all SGI's are susceptible to this; there seems to be something about the WD scsi chipset that they use...) -- Pete From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 15:04:17 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA07467 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 15:04:17 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA07461 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 15:04:14 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA11034; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 14:41:46 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508132141.OAA11034@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: pete@puffin.pelican.com (Pete Carah) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 14:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508131613.JAA01053@puffin.pelican.com> from "Pete Carah" at Aug 13, 95 09:13:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3121 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In article <199508130850.BAA09255@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Rod writes: > ..... > >> I have a Hawk and a Barracuda and recommend them both with the following > >> proviso: The Barracuda runs very hot. I have it mounted in a server case > >> containing 3 fans (5 if you count the power supply and CPU.) One of the > >> fans blows directly across it. Still warm to the touch but not worth getting > >> paranoid over. Performance wise it rocks. > > >And that ``proviso'' is one many are not willing to live with. If a drive > >requires that type of external cooling air blown at it, then something is > >seriously wrong. > > Well, the official word from SGI is to not mount Barracuda drives internal > to any SGI except the large Challenge/Onyx rack for this reason. > (old indigo, indy, all older machines; actually they may have improved > cooling on indigo2 but I don't remember...) There are a couple of other > drive lines in that list but I don't remember which either. And the ``official word'' from AAC is not to run a Barracuda at all. :-) > >Read my .signature, and then think about what I said, and you may fully > >understand why I said it :-) :-) > > Barracuda drives seem just fine in the "appropriate" external case... Try that as a sales pitch to a customer about to buy a $5k Pentium system who needs 4G of high speed disk. It doesn't fly very well! > We have seen the usual > problem with non-ideal scsi cables; the SGI indy's are especially susceptible > to this (along with the older 1542C's that Rod has already commented on, > and whatever else). (actually all SGI's are susceptible to this; there > seems to be something about the WD scsi chipset that they use...) It has very little to do with the SCSI controller chip itself, it is mostly due to signal edge rates which are directly attributable to the type of buffer chip you use between the controller chip and the bus itself. Adaptec, like many other vendors have gone to the Dallas 2107AS active terminator/scsi bus driver which happens to have a very fast edge rate. Well, very fast edge rates and low quality cables don't mix very well. The real failure here is caused by the incomplete specification called ``SCSI-II''. It only specifies a ``maximal'' signal rise/fall time, when doing real bus and transmission line design this is only 1/2 of the data needed to insure you design a reliable bus. Minimal signal rise/fall time is a very important parameter when dealing with controlled impendence bus design, and one that is all too often overlooked. :-(. The Dallas chips work _great_ if you happen to be driving the proper 110 ohm actively terminated, properly shielded and seperated transmission lines that the SCSI-II specification recommends. However, they cause serious crosstalk and ringback on a typical SCSI-I class 130 ohm, single shielded cable with passive termination :-(. Hook a scope up to the later and just take a quick peek, you'll see the problem! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 18:41:17 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA18818 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 18:41:17 -0700 Received: from penzance.econ.yale.edu (penzance.econ.yale.edu [130.132.32.100]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA18799 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 18:41:08 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 21:40:42 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, john@zyqad.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508122015.NAA06728@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope mine is too... > > > > > > > > > > Now my question is how do you figure out what the mounting point > > > > > is for each drive? > > > > > > > > > > > > unionfs ? > > > > > > This is below the fs layer, this is _virtual_ disk type devices. You > > > end up with /dev/cdX under 4.4 lite (sic, conflicts with scsi cdrom > > > driver on many platforms :-(). On an Auspex it is /dev/vdX or is > > > that /dev/vnX, been a few months, unionfs can not do what this > > > does, and that is scatter blocks accross partitions (yes, you can > > > stripe to one disk, though that makes a very slow disk, it makes > > > it cheap to work on the code.) > > > > Now this would be neat but what will the output of df look like? > > If you have never been around a stipe disk I suppose these questions > are not out of line. However I don't have a lot of time to answer > questions at this level. This is the last one I will answer about the > fundementals of disk stripe operation. If Terry Lambert or one of the > others here cares to pick this tread up and explain what these things > are, by all means, please do, but I am not going to have time to do > that and work on any code :-(. Hopefully someone else can pick this thread off since we're very fortunate to see your contributions in the code for such a great OS on a PC platform =) > Here is what df looks like on my box when I am not playing with > stripe code: > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/sd0a 15871 11210 3391 77% / > /dev/sd0d 15871 1217 13384 8% /tmp > /dev/sd0e 15871 6522 8079 45% /var > /dev/sd0f 95311 59505 28181 68% /usr > /dev/sd0g 158863 121944 24209 83% /usr/src > /dev/sd0h 173727 137736 22092 86% /a > /dev/sd1h 475599 410211 27340 94% /b > /dev/sd2h 475599 432456 5095 99% /c > /dev/sd1a 15871 1 14600 0% /tmp2 > /dev/sd2a 15871 1 14600 0% /tmp3 > > And here is what it looks like when I have my 2 wide stripe running > on /dev/sd1a /dev/sd2a: > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/sd0a 15871 11210 3391 77% / > /dev/sd0d 15871 1217 13384 8% /tmp > /dev/sd0e 15871 6522 8079 45% /var > /dev/sd0f 95311 59505 28181 68% /usr > /dev/sd0g 158863 121944 24209 83% /usr/src > /dev/sd0h 173727 137736 22092 86% /a > /dev/sd1h 475599 410211 27340 94% /b > /dev/sd2h 475599 432456 5095 99% /c > /dev/vd0a 31742 1 29200 0% /tmp2 > > [Note, this is faked since I don't have that code compile into > the kernel on gndrsh.] My question is where does vd0a actually pick up from the other drives mounted, does it just give space when the other /dev's need it? Cheers, -Vince- vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering - UC Berkeley Fall '95 SysAdmin bigbang.HIP.Berkeley.EDU - Running FreeBSD, Real UN*X for Free! Chabot Observatory & Science Center From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 18:53:03 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA19515 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 18:53:03 -0700 Received: from penzance.econ.yale.edu (penzance.econ.yale.edu [130.132.32.100]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA19509 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 18:53:01 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 21:52:24 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, john@zyqad.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508122028.NAA06843@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > > > > > In message , -V > > > ince- writes: > > > > I forgot who mentioned on the list that 4 GB was the limit. What > > > >brand is the 9GB SCSI on news.cdrom.com? > > > > > > Sorry? They're lying/mistaken. It used to be a 2GB limit (not 4 - they > > > were unsigned ints), but that restriction vanished quite a while ago > > > (somewhere between 2.0 and 2.0.5). AFAIR, it's now 1TB. > > > > Oh okay, then that wouldn't be a problem to use a 9GB drive. > > > > > And the drive is a Micropolis 1991. > > > > Hmmm, are they pretty good and quiet of a drive or would I be > > better off with a Seageate or Quantum (If they make one)? > > _The_ 9G drive to have is the Micropolis 1991. Quantum does not > make a drive in this capacity (or didn't as of my last product brief > update 4 weeks ago) and I wouldn't trust 9G of data to Seagates version > of the 9G drive. [About the only Seagate I will even sell right now is > the Hawk series as it has shown to be one of Seagates good drive lines] Now what's wrong with Seagates 9GB drive since I thought only the Barracuda's had problem while the 9GB was another series of drives altogether and isn't Seagate drives using the CDC/Imprimus technology they bought many years ago? Cheers, -Vince- vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering - UC Berkeley Fall '95 SysAdmin bigbang.HIP.Berkeley.EDU - Running FreeBSD, Real UN*X for Free! Chabot Observatory & Science Center From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 19:41:45 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA21811 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 19:41:45 -0700 Received: from penzance.econ.yale.edu (penzance.econ.yale.edu [130.132.32.100]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA21804 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 19:41:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 22:41:35 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508122036.NAA06906@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > > > > > > > > [CC: list trimmed, primarily to save my machine work :-)] > > > > > > In message , -V > > > ince- writes: > > > >> And the drive is a Micropolis 1991. > > > > > > > Hmmm, are they pretty good and quiet of a drive or would I be > > > >better off with a Seageate or Quantum (If they make one)? > > > > > > Dunno about quiet - it's in a machine room... I don't think so tho. > > > > Is Micropolis pretty reliable though? > > Micropolis has one of the best track records in the industry for the > reliability of thier drives. They were the only vendor for a long time > to pass Auspex's reliability requirements. Hmmmm, okay but I thought Micropolis wasn't that big of a player in the market. Isn't Seagates reliable since they are using the technology they bought from CDC/Imprimus many years ago atleast on their WREN and Elite Drives... > > What drives does wcarchive and freefall use? > > Seagates and Micropolis on wcarchive last I heard, and Freefall is pure > Quantum unless something has changed last time I looked at dmesg output. Hmmm, okay... Cheers, -Vince- vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering - UC Berkeley Fall '95 SysAdmin bigbang.HIP.Berkeley.EDU - Running FreeBSD, Real UN*X for Free! Chabot Observatory & Science Center From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 19:55:45 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA22217 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 19:55:45 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA22204 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 19:55:41 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA20188; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:56:08 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508140326.MAA20188@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: vince@penzance.econ.yale.edu (-Vince-) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:56:07 +0930 (CST) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "-Vince-" at Aug 13, 95 10:41:35 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1795 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk -Vince- stands accused of saying: >> Micropolis has one of the best track records in the industry for the >> reliability of thier drives. They were the only vendor for a long time >> to pass Auspex's reliability requirements. > > Hmmmm, okay but I thought Micropolis wasn't that big of a player > in the market. Isn't Seagates reliable since they are using the > technology they bought from CDC/Imprimus many years ago atleast on their > WREN and Elite Drives... Seagate make/have made some of the very best, and some of the very worst disks on the market. As Rod observed, their Hawk and Hawk-II drives have proven themselves to be very good units. The Barracuda family are actually reasonably old technology, and weighted their design tradeoffs very heavily in favour of performance. As a consequence, they have (possibly) excessive heat dissipation and noise characteristics, but when they came out, there was nothing that could touch them for speed. Micropolis have been around for a _long_ time; anyone remember the DEC RD53? Whilst that wasn't a particularly good disk, they have a really solid reputation, and (here at least) they offer a 5-year warranty on most of their disks. Rod, while we're on disks; the 4G Conner looks great on price, what's the story on it wrt performance and survivability? I had a bad run with Conner and Quantum a while ago, but I guess it's time to try again 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 20:49:00 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA24662 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 20:49:00 -0700 Received: from penzance.econ.yale.edu (penzance.econ.yale.edu [130.132.32.100]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA24655 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 20:48:53 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 23:48:46 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Pete Carah cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508130014.RAA22232@puffin.pelican.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Pete Carah wrote: > In article you write: > >> stripe to one disk, though that makes a very slow disk, it makes > ... > >> it cheap to work on the code.) > > > > Now this would be neat but what will the output of df look like? > For a possible example, mount (via the net) wuarchive.wustl.edu:/archive > and do a df.. FreeBSD s one system that gets the output right :-) > (note that IRIX 4.x doesn't). Hmmmm, how do I mount gatekeeper.dec.com nfs from the shell? Cheers, -Vince- vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering - UC Berkeley Fall '95 SysAdmin bigbang.HIP.Berkeley.EDU - Running FreeBSD, Real UN*X for Free! Chabot Observatory & Science Center From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Aug 13 22:38:55 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA29906 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 22:38:55 -0700 Received: from penzance.econ.yale.edu (penzance.econ.yale.edu [130.132.32.100]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA29896 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 1995 22:38:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 01:38:40 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Gary Palmer cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <614.808319566@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Aug 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > In message , -V > ince- writes: > > Oh okay... How are these drives actually mounted? Is it in some > >sort of enclosure? > > 2 rack bays holding 4 5.25" drives each, and one rack bay capable of > holding 9 (I think) 3.5" drives (and one drive may be internal to the > cpu case of wcarchive, I can't remember). The 3.5" bay is the sort you > see RAID arrays made out of... Oh okay... > > Hmmm, what about memory wise on both machines? > > wcarchive: 128Mb > freefall: 48Mb How big are the swapfs on these machines? And can you mount a swapfs from the command line? Cheers, -Vince- vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering - UC Berkeley Fall '95 SysAdmin bigbang.HIP.Berkeley.EDU - Running FreeBSD, Real UN*X for Free! Chabot Observatory & Science Center From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 02:39:46 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA08081 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 02:39:46 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA08070 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 02:39:42 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA12601; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 02:38:29 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508140938.CAA12601@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 02:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: vince@penzance.econ.yale.edu, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508140326.MAA20188@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Aug 14, 95 12:56:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4908 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > -Vince- stands accused of saying: Ahh.. Vince said the 2nd paragraph, I said the first one, please be carefull with attributions :-) > >> Micropolis has one of the best track records in the industry for the > >> reliability of thier drives. They were the only vendor for a long time > >> to pass Auspex's reliability requirements. > > > > Hmmmm, okay but I thought Micropolis wasn't that big of a player > > in the market. Isn't Seagates reliable since they are using the > > technology they bought from CDC/Imprimus many years ago atleast on their > > WREN and Elite Drives... > > Seagate make/have made some of the very best, and some of the very worst > disks on the market. As Rod observed, their Hawk and Hawk-II drives > have proven themselves to be very good units. The Barracuda family are > actually reasonably old technology, and weighted their design tradeoffs > very heavily in favour of performance. As a consequence, they have > (possibly) excessive heat dissipation and noise characteristics, but > when they came out, there was nothing that could touch them for speed. Sums things up pretty nicely when we talk about specific drive models. I, personally, and professionally, have a problem with Seagate, and that problem is they tend to deliver more ``lemon'' models of drives than the other vendors. I often deal with cutting edge technology, and don't like getting lots of lemons when I am trying to do so. Thus, I avoid any and all Seagate drives until they have been in the field for 6 months, and then only use them when there is no price/performance alternative. Right now I will sell the Seagate Hawk series drive (the only seagate I will sell right now) due to the fact that there is no other vendor who has an effective substitute, and the fact the drive has done extremly well in the field. This is a single point at 4G bytes, and when ever I can I get folks to spend the extra money and sell the a Micropolis 3423 drive (about 20% higher in price, about the same performance, but from a vendor I have absolutely no problem at all trusing my mission critical data to.). > Micropolis have been around for a _long_ time; anyone remember the DEC RD53? > Whilst that wasn't a particularly good disk, they have a really solid > reputation, and (here at least) they offer a 5-year warranty on most of > their disks. Micropolis is not very vissible in the PC market, they are in the high end workstation/high end file server market. They have one of the best reliability records in the industry, they are also one of the oldest drive manufactures in the business, pre dating Seagate if I am not mistaken. Sure, they have made a lemon or two, but it is really hard for me to come up with specific model numbers, whilst I can rattle off a list so long of lemon seagates it is sickning. > Rod, while we're on disks; the 4G Conner looks great on price, what's > the story on it wrt performance and survivability? I had a bad run > with Conner and Quantum a while ago, but I guess it's time to try again 8) Conner is one supplier I won't touch on the disk drive market. They have been given some rave reviews, but given there target is and always has been the lowest dollar end of the market it makes me wonder where they cut the corners. I have never seen a conner disk drive used by any workstation or server manufacure, so that makes me wonder as well. And until recently you could not get a warranty longer than one year on Conner products, they had to revise this to compete, but did they revise the product, or are they just eating more cost? Conner is also very new to the scsi disk drive market, and has made a few product blunders they have had to fix with firmware upgrades (thank go the drives are field upgradeable in that respect). Given that I have _very_ long and good experiences with Quantum (who now owns DEC's drive division, which I have no problems with either) and Micropolis I see no reason to go gamble my own businesses lively hood on other suppliers. Remeber, I am not just a consumer of disk drives, I am in the business of selling them, and my company is in the highly reliability market segment, so these are risk and assesments I must make, have made, and stand by. The other drive vendor I do use is Fujitsu, and other than the Super Eagle, they have done them selves very little harm with lemon drives going to mass market (I was involved in a lot of alpha drive testing, and I know of a few that never saw a manufacturing pilot run :-)). And on one final note, the cost of a field failure is one thing for an end user, for me as a reseller that cost can be very high, not so much in shipping/RMA time/extra replacement stock/etc, but cost in loss of future sales. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 06:43:55 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA16352 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 06:43:55 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA16346 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 06:43:52 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA21571; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:43:43 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508141413.XAA21571@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:43:42 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, vince@penzance.econ.yale.edu, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508140938.CAA12601@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 14, 95 02:38:29 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3067 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > Micropolis have been around for a _long_ time; anyone remember the DEC RD53? > > Whilst that wasn't a particularly good disk, they have a really solid > > reputation, and (here at least) they offer a 5-year warranty on most of > > their disks. > Sure, they have made a lemon or two, but it is really hard for me to > come up with specific model numbers, whilst I can rattle off a list > so long of lemon seagates it is sickning. Hmm. The RD53 (1335?) was a lemon 8) as was the 1355 (wedge servo anyone?), and in fact anything in that family is worth avoiding (and easy at that age), but I'd agree wholeheartedly with you on their dependability; if anecdotal evidence is anything - had a client recently having odd SCSI problems (bus lockups and timeouts mostly), initially we suspected cables /termination (and that was part of the problem), but the real cause was a 1G Micropolis disk (2112?) in a plastic case with a dead fan. The case was so hot I left fingerprints in it when I tried to pick it up; the drive was shifted to a new case & ran for 6 months nonstop afterwards. (It's been replaced by a RAID array) > Conner is one supplier I won't touch on the disk drive market. They have > been given some rave reviews, but given there target is and always has > been the lowest dollar end of the market it makes me wonder where they > cut the corners. Reviews don't count for much, to be honest. I have yet to read much in the industry press around here that was objective, factual, readable or even comestible. > Given that I have _very_ long and good experiences with Quantum (who now > owns DEC's drive division, which I have no problems with either) and Quantum had a really bad run around here a few years ago, but I suspect that this was more a case of product dumping than anything else. Either way, it's still hard to sell a Quantum into many serious shops around town. > The other drive vendor I do use is Fujitsu, and other than the Super Eagle, > they have done them selves very little harm with lemon drives going to mass > market (I was involved in a lot of alpha drive testing, and I know of a few > that never saw a manufacturing pilot run :-)). Hey! The only problems I ever met with the SE's were the fans in the front (which used to go noisy after 6 weeks, and fail a few months later) (we are referring to the 19" rack units? 8) They've been hard to get around here for a while - it's good to know they're worth pursuing. > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Thanks for the advice, Rod - it's useful for those of 'following in your footsteps' so to speak 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 07:36:11 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA18842 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 07:36:11 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA18835 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 07:36:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA01653 ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 15:35:00 +0100 X-Message: This is a dial-up site. Quick responses to e-mails should not be relied upon. Thanks! To: -Vince- cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Aug 1995 01:38:40 EDT." Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 15:34:59 +0100 Message-ID: <1651.808410899@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , -V ince- writes: >> wcarchive: 128Mb >> freefall: 48Mb > How big are the swapfs on these machines? And can you mount a >swapfs from the command line? Sorry? swapfs? New one on me. Certainly no `swapfs' in FreeBSD. All swap partitions mentioned in /etc/fstab are automatically used for swapspace by /etc/rc. freefall has 64Mb of swap on each of 3 drives. wcarchive has 200Mb on each of 4 drives (total 800Mb) Gary From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 08:42:47 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA22204 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:42:47 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22197 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:42:39 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA13939; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:41:50 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508141541.IAA13939@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508141413.XAA21571@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Aug 14, 95 11:43:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5818 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [CC: reset to -hardware, it was getting rather long!] > Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > > Micropolis have been around for a _long_ time; anyone remember the DEC RD53? > > > Whilst that wasn't a particularly good disk, they have a really solid > > > reputation, and (here at least) they offer a 5-year warranty on most of > > > their disks. > > > Sure, they have made a lemon or two, but it is really hard for me to > > come up with specific model numbers, whilst I can rattle off a list > > so long of lemon seagates it is sickning. > > Hmm. The RD53 (1335?) was a lemon 8) as was the 1355 (wedge servo anyone?), AH, so there is more than one person who played with 135x series drives. I was working for Rolm Milspec at that time, and we where trying to qualify drives, we had lots of fun dropping them, and cooking them, and freezing them. By and far, micropolis stood up to this type of ``abuse'' better than anyone, except we keep have this fun little problem with the drives :-) > and in fact anything in that family is worth avoiding (and easy at that > age), but I'd agree wholeheartedly with you on their dependability; if > anecdotal evidence is anything - had a client recently having odd SCSI > problems (bus lockups and timeouts mostly), initially we suspected cables > /termination (and that was part of the problem), but the real cause was a > 1G Micropolis disk (2112?) in a plastic case with a dead fan. The case was > so hot I left fingerprints in it when I tried to pick it up; the drive > was shifted to a new case & ran for 6 months nonstop afterwards. (It's > been replaced by a RAID array) :-). See above!! And I mean we _COOKED_ them, 50 degree C environmental chambers for 100 hours operational. [Not quite the rigid 38510/883B specs of 125 degrees C, but then no disk drive could run at that tempature then, and as far as I know now.] > > Conner is one supplier I won't touch on the disk drive market. They have > > been given some rave reviews, but given there target is and always has > > been the lowest dollar end of the market it makes me wonder where they > > cut the corners. > > Reviews don't count for much, to be honest. I have yet to read much in > the industry press around here that was objective, factual, readable or > even comestible. :-) > > Given that I have _very_ long and good experiences with Quantum (who now > > owns DEC's drive division, which I have no problems with either) and > > Quantum had a really bad run around here a few years ago, but I suspect > that this was more a case of product dumping than anything else. Either > way, it's still hard to sell a Quantum into many serious shops around > town. Quantum has had several problems in the past with defect units being slipped out there back doors, labeled, and sold. I personally went through this with Quantum trying to file a warranty claim against a drive that died 2 weeks into operation. Turns out the serial number was never regestered as a ``shipped'' unit, and 3 QA stamps where missing from the drive. I worked with Quantum to back track from the source I obtained the drive from to the leak that was slipping them out the back door. For my efferts Quantum awarded me a free replacement drive with full 5 year warranty on it. That drive is still running just fine today some 3 years latter. I suspect this back door leak has caused Quantum some bad press in places, one of them being southern california where literally 1000's of these units where being sold off as new drives with supposed full warranties. Since then I have been very very carefull about who I will buy a Quantum disk from. And for that mater _any_ disk. I have channels into Quantum that I can check the validity of any serial number with a phone call now, and do so before purchasing a Quantum disk from anyone other than the listed official Quantum distributors. I have run accross several OEM drives which only carry a 2 or 3 year warranty on the grey market. > > The other drive vendor I do use is Fujitsu, and other than the Super Eagle, > > they have done them selves very little harm with lemon drives going to mass > > market (I was involved in a lot of alpha drive testing, and I know of a few > > that never saw a manufacturing pilot run :-)). > > Hey! The only problems I ever met with the SE's were the fans in the front > (which used to go noisy after 6 weeks, and fail a few months later) (we are > referring to the 19" rack units? 8) Well, we where one of the first 100 site installations of SE's, and we where replacing them at about 1 out of 5 every 30 days for the first 6 months. After that they finally got the things to run reliably. These where all head crash and/or flacking media related problems. Our machine room was so noisy I doubt that we would have noticed a cooling fan going bad :-). Yes, we are talking about 14" SMD disks in 19" rack mountable enclosures, 689MB capacity, 1.2MB/sec data transfer rates. > > They've been hard to get around here for a while - it's good to know they're > worth pursuing. > I use them as a point solution at the 1G mark, as Quantum obsoleted the 1080S drive, and the replacement has no place near the performance. I would rather sell the Micropolis drive, but price is a bit of an issue here with my customers :-(. > > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > > Thanks for the advice, Rod - it's useful for those of 'following in your > footsteps' so to speak 8) :-). As with any advice, always remeber to take it with a grain of salt, and what might be true today, can quite rapidly become false tomarrow! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 08:57:49 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA23504 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:57:49 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA23482 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:57:41 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA14124; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:53:18 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508141553.IAA14124@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: vince@penzance.econ.yale.edu, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1651.808410899@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Aug 14, 95 03:34:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 706 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In message , -V > ince- writes: > >> wcarchive: 128Mb > >> freefall: 48Mb > > > How big are the swapfs on these machines? And can you mount a > >swapfs from the command line? > > Sorry? swapfs? New one on me. Certainly no `swapfs' in FreeBSD. All > swap partitions mentioned in /etc/fstab are automatically used for > swapspace by /etc/rc. man swapon > > freefall has 64Mb of swap on each of 3 drives. wcarchive has 200Mb on > each of 4 drives (total 800Mb) > > Gary > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 14:18:58 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA00547 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:18:58 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00523 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:18:50 -0700 Received: from colin.muc.de (colin.muc.de [193.174.4.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA05147 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:18:36 -0700 Received: from rio by colin.muc.de with UUCP id <41373-7>; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:16:58 +0200 Received: from rio by rio.muc.de with UUPC; Mon, 14 Aug 95 23:12:53 +0200 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 22:28:20 +0200 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: ts@rio.muc.de (Thomas Schreiber) Subject: XFree runs on Trident VC-910 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have a Trident VC-910 grafic board (PCI). This is not listed as supported by XFree86. Does that mean that XFree does not run with this board? Thomas From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 15:32:55 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA05134 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 15:32:55 -0700 Received: from iri18.infores.com (iri18.infores.com [137.103.40.8]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA05122 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 15:32:49 -0700 From: Jonathan_Miller_at_PO.CHI03@smtplink.infores.com Received: from smtplink.infores.com (smtplink2.infores.com) by iri18.infores.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA027329548; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:32:28 -0400 Received: from ccMail by smtplink.infores.com (SMTPLINK V2.10.05) id AA808450286; Mon, 14 Aug 95 17:19:58 EST Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 17:19:58 EST Message-Id: <9507148084.AA808450286@smtplink.infores.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: BT-410A EIDE multi-boot solution? Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In the January, 1995, UNIX Review, David Baily, mentions the Bus Logic BT-410A IDE caching controller as a multi-booting solution. The controller is supposed to let you boot from any one of up to 4 attached drives. Has anyone used one of these with FreeBSD? If so, how do you like it? I want to load FreeBSD, Windows NT workstation, and Windows 95 (each on a separate drive) on my system. Do you think one of these controllers would be a worth while investment (I will need to upgrade my IDE controller to EIDE to accomodate for the third drive that I will be purchasing anyway)? Does anyone know of any similar controllers with the multi-boot facility but with out the cache (a less expensive alternative). Also, will I still be able to mount any MS-DOS FAT partitions from FreeBSD if I do this? Any comments or suggestions be greatly appreciated. Please respond to me directly, as I am not subscribed to this mailing list. Thanks, Jon -- jonathan.miller@infores.com From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 16:54:02 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA10785 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 16:54:02 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA10769 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 16:53:56 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA23168; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:54:59 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508150024.JAA23168@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: XFree runs on Trident VC-910 To: ts@rio.muc.de (Thomas Schreiber) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:54:58 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Thomas Schreiber" at Aug 14, 95 10:28:20 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 896 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thomas Schreiber stands accused of saying: > > I have a Trident VC-910 grafic board (PCI). This is > not listed as supported by XFree86. Does that mean that > XFree does not run with this board? No, it means that the Secret XFree86 Trident User's Cabal is trying to spread fear and confusion amongst the masses by concealing the fact that the VC-910 not only runs fine, but also sings, washes whiter than white and cooks a damn nice souffle'. --- For the humour impaired out there : this is a _joke_. > Thomas -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 14 22:18:13 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA22490 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 22:18:13 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22456 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 1995 22:18:02 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA24035; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 15:19:04 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508150549.PAA24035@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Ascend Pipeline 50 Alert! To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 15:19:04 +0930 (CST) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508150506.WAA08966@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Aug 14, 95 10:05:59 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 721 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > > I recently forgot my password to my system and the only to break into > the damn thing is to replace it ! My head spinned when Ascend's > tech support told me this :( Nah, frob the NVram out and wipe it 8) Seriously, this is a Very Bad Thing - anyone know anything about this? > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 03:56:42 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA16658 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 03:56:42 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA16652 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 03:56:41 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <26514-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:56:11 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id TAA25200 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:44:27 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id JAA08630 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:42:03 GMT Message-Id: <199508150942.JAA08630@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Identify the SCSI controller! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:42:02 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have this 8 bit SCSI card floating about. It has the standard Centronics external connector, with a 50pin internal connector. It has a dipswitch bank (8 switches of course) near the upper left hand corner. It has a bunch of fairly generic looking chips on it with the exception of 1 chip (approx. the same dimensions as a 286 CPU) labeled as follows - (C)WDC'85 WD33C93-PL 00-02 9027 024829010101 Construction wise it looks very similar to some of the older Adaptec & BusLogic controllers. It also has no floppy controller. Can anyone furnish me with a clue as to what it is and could it be useful? Stephen I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 05:35:42 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA19537 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 05:35:42 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA19530 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 05:35:40 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA25877; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:37:26 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508151307.WAA25877@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Identify the SCSI controller! To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:37:26 +0930 (CST) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508150942.JAA08630@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at Aug 15, 95 07:42:02 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1390 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stephen Hocking stands accused of saying: > I have this 8 bit SCSI card floating about. It has the standard Centronics > external connector, with a 50pin internal connector. It has a dipswitch bank > (8 switches of course) near the upper left hand corner. It has a bunch of > fairly generic looking chips on it with the exception of 1 chip (approx. the > same dimensions as a 286 CPU) labeled as follows - > > (C)WDC'85 > WD33C93-PL > 00-02 9027 > 024829010101 Top points; this is a WD33C93 SCSI controller chip. Not a bad little unit. > Construction wise it looks very similar to some of the older Adaptec & > BusLogic controllers. It also has no floppy controller. Can anyone furnish me > with a clue as to what it is and could it be useful? Absolutely no idea. Given that it's an 8-bit card, it could well have been a paddleboard for an old SCSI CD-rom. It's not likely to be compatible with anything else that FreeBSD currently supports. (AFAIK) Any markings on the board? > Stephen -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 09:50:12 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA15448 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:50:12 -0700 Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se (mailgate.ericsson.se [130.100.2.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA15441 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:50:08 -0700 Received: from sa.erisoft.se (epls01.sa.erisoft.se [150.132.128.1]) by mailgate.ericsson.se (8.6.11/1.0) with SMTP id SAA06642 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:50:05 +0200 Received: from sws021.sa.erisoft.se by sa.erisoft.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-ERIS0.99) id AA22580; Tue, 15 Aug 95 18:50:04 +0200 From: Mattias.Gronlund@sa.erisoft.se (Mattias Gronlund) Received: by sws021.sa.erisoft.se (5.x/client-1.3) id AA02249; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:49:49 +0200 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:49:49 +0200 Message-Id: <9508151649.AA02249@sws021.sa.erisoft.se> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3C509B-combo Cc: Mattias.Gronlund@sa.erisoft.se X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, I have been playing around with FreeBSD for a while, and bought a 3C509B ethernet controller, I thought that it was a great card but I am missing something? When I had it up and running ping gave me a smaller chock, the first packet in the sequense gave me a random round trip time betwen 1 and 1000 ms then it started to decrese the round trip time by 10 ms for each packet until the time should had been under 10 ms when i restarted the sequense from 1000 ms per round tripp. Thanks for a otherwise great OS! /Mattias From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 10:37:11 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA17787 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:37:11 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA17781 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:37:07 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA16712; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:36:10 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:26:09 -0700 Received: (from unibrow@localhost) by veenet.value.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA00854 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:32:17 -0700 From: Don Littlefield Message-Id: <199508152032.NAA00854@veenet.value.net> Subject: Mitsumi FX400 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:32:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 228 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Sorry if this has been answered before, but.. I currently have a Mitsumi FX400 drive hooked up to my SB-16 card. I was wondering if support for this is in the works or...? Its an ATAPI IDE interface... Thanks, Don Littlefield From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 19:22:27 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA27973 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:22:27 -0700 Received: from fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com (fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com [199.184.182.42]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA27967 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:22:21 -0700 Received: from [199.184.183.2] by fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com (8.6.9/FF-1.1) id VAA17424; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:22:09 -0500 X-Sender: craigh@pop.msn.fullfeed.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:22:14 -0500 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: craigh@msn.fullfeed.com (Craig A. Heilman) Subject: SCSI controller questions??? Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I'm in the process of setting up my PC to run FreeBSD (I'll probably buy the Walnut Creek CD-ROM) and I have a few hardware questions. Here's my current hardware configuration: Magitronic full-tower PC with GA-486VS motherboard 486/DX2-80 CPU 8 MB RAM (should I upgrade to 16 for X-windows?) 256 KB level-2 cache 3 VL-Bus (VESA) slots 3 AT-Bus (ISA) slots 1 XT-Bus (?) slot AWARD Bios BI-711A VL-Bus graphics card (uses Cirrus CL-GD5428) driving a 15" monitor PTI-255W VL-Bus Super I/O Card uses Winbond W83759F, W83757AF, W83758P chipset 540 MB IDE hard drive (up to 3 additional supported) FDD floppy, HDD floppy 2 serial ports, 1 game port, 1 parallel port 3Com 3C501 Ethernet adapter (free from a friend) I want to get a SCSI controller to use with the following devices: 4mm DAT drive (APS) CD-ROM drive (recommendations?) additional hard drives (recommendations?) I would like to be able to boot into DOS/Windows/FreeBSD so would it be wise to get another hard drive? If so, should I partition each hard drive for a separate OS? I've read that the IDE drive has to be the boot drive (Adaptec literature) - can I put a minimal FreeBSD boot partition on the IDE drive but use a SCSI drive as the main drive (I'm assuming that a SCSI drive will be faster)? Should I get a VL-Bus version SCSI controller or an ISA version (I'm assuming it would be faster/more efficient in the VL-Bus slot)? Since I already have the I/O card, I suppose I just need a basic SCSI host card right? If you have a specific card that you think would fit my needs, feel free to recommend one (I've been looking at Adaptec & Buslogic). If you also want to recommend a distributer/dealer to buy from... Thanks much, Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Craig A. Heilman Bugaboo Software * * bugsoft@msn.fullfeed.com Software Engineering & Consulting * * (608) 274-2003 http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/craigh/ * -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 20:03:02 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA29107 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:03:02 -0700 Received: from hp.com (hp.com [15.255.152.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29101 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:03:01 -0700 Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA232732178; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:02:59 -0700 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA140642177; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:02:57 -0700 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA165102177; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:02:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199508160302.AA165102177@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:02:56 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > two sets of 3053's stripped would be incredible....especially at > under 40 cents a megabyte A potentially good deal right now is the Quantum Lightning 730S (~699MB formatted, 4500RPM, 11ms avg. seek). The internal version is selling for about $230 (APS Technologies), which translates into around $0.32/MB. With a 1542CF controller, I get around 2MB/sec sustained transfers (iozone results have been appended). Not great, but not bad, either. For more info, see: http://www.quantum.com/products/lightng.html I've got no connections with Quantum, aside from being a customer. The only downside is that the 730S has only a 2yr warranty. I guess I'll find out what the reliability is like. -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the little green men that have been following him all day. =============================================================================== IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() IOZONE: auto-test mode MB reclen bytes/sec written bytes/sec read 1 512 1278264 4329604 1 1024 1636801 9586980 1 2048 1838599 11184810 1 4096 1838599 12201611 1 8192 1838599 12201611 2 512 1931190 7255012 2 1024 1646843 9586980 2 2048 1988410 11671106 2 4096 2080895 12201611 2 8192 2064888 13421772 4 512 1995802 7064090 4 1024 2122019 8801162 4 2048 2164802 9942053 4 4096 2113665 10324440 4 8192 2138927 10526880 8 512 1962964 1973790 8 1024 2029757 2014524 8 2048 2122019 2014524 8 4096 2101256 1977425 8 8192 2084935 1952257 16 512 2051082 2035529 16 1024 2218474 2010752 16 2048 2225371 2033601 16 4096 2218474 2035529 16 8192 2225371 2072860 From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 22:57:57 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA09225 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:57:57 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09208 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:57:45 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA18582; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:56:59 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508160556.WAA18582@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI controller questions??? To: craigh@msn.fullfeed.com (Craig A. Heilman) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Craig A. Heilman" at Aug 15, 95 09:22:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4442 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi all, Hello, and since no one else has responded to you, I will :-). > I'm in the process of setting up my PC to run FreeBSD (I'll probably buy > the Walnut Creek CD-ROM) and I have a few hardware questions. Here's my > current hardware configuration: > > Magitronic full-tower PC with GA-486VS motherboard I have qualified the Gigabit GA-486VS motherboard for FreeBSD operation in systems I sell. I no longer use it due to it being unavaliable (Gigabit obsoleted all 486 MB's about 30 days ago :-(). It works, and works well. > 486/DX2-80 CPU > 8 MB RAM (should I upgrade to 16 for X-windows?) Yes, I would recomenend that if you are going to run X windows you upgrade to 16MB of memory. > 256 KB level-2 cache > 3 VL-Bus (VESA) slots > 3 AT-Bus (ISA) slots > 1 XT-Bus (?) slot I don't know why they did this, guess they ran out of room on the board :-(. > AWARD Bios > > BI-711A VL-Bus graphics card (uses Cirrus CL-GD5428) driving a 15" monitor Unknown product to me, but Cirrus chips are well known in the industry, supported by XFree86. > PTI-255W VL-Bus Super I/O Card > uses Winbond W83759F, W83757AF, W83758P chipset > 540 MB IDE hard drive (up to 3 additional supported) > FDD floppy, HDD floppy > 2 serial ports, 1 game port, 1 parallel port Unknown product to me. But again, the chips are well known, and I have not heard or seen any bad things from the Winbond W837XX chip set. > 3Com 3C501 Ethernet adapter (free from a friend) Free is a very nice price, but this is unsupported by FreeBSD :-(. It is an old old old DMA type ethernet card. Throw it in the garbage can and go spend $45 on a decent NE2000/WD8013 clone card. I recomend the Compex Freedom line run in NE2000 mode for minimal fuss on the ISA bus. > I want to get a SCSI controller to use with the following devices: > 4mm DAT drive (APS) CNR4326 or HP1533 is my current recommendations here, the Conner drive is really an Archive drive, but Conner bought Archive some time back. This particular model is constantly on allocation so I am in the process of switching to the slightly more expensive, but readily avaliable HP1533. > CD-ROM drive (recommendations?) For caddy type drives, I recomend the NEC 4Xi, for caddyless drives the toshiba XM5301. > additional hard drives (recommendations?) Depends on capacity desired. > > I would like to be able to boot into DOS/Windows/FreeBSD so would it be > wise to get another hard drive? Depending on how much DOS/Windows vs FreeBSD space you would want. > If so, should I partition each hard drive for a separate OS? Given that you add a second hard drive, yes, I would recomened you keep the OS's on there own disks. > I've read that the IDE drive has to be the boot drive > (Adaptec literature) - can I put a minimal FreeBSD boot partition on the > IDE drive but use a SCSI drive as the main drive (I'm assuming that a SCSI > drive will be faster)? You can even just use a boot selector on the first IDE hard drive and have _all_ of FreeBSD on the second drive. > Should I get a VL-Bus version SCSI controller or an > ISA version (I'm assuming it would be faster/more efficient in the VL-Bus > slot)? VL-Bus controllers are generally faster than ISA based cards. Note that the VL-bus is rapidly become a dead horse. Your VL scsi card will have to be replaced if upgrading to a Pentium class machine is in your future. I know there are VL/PCI/ISA bus Pentium MB on the market, but that is rapidly going away in favor of pure PCI/ISA boards. > Since I already have the I/O card, I suppose I just need a basic > SCSI host card right? Yes, that is correct. > If you have a specific card that you think would fit my needs, feel free to > recommend one (I've been looking at Adaptec & Buslogic). If you also want > to recommend a distributer/dealer to buy from... Either an Adaptec 1542CF for the ISA bus, or a BusLogic 445C for the VL bus. I carry the Adaptec, use to carry the BusLogic, but am currently not carrying any buslogic products. I do not recommend myself as a distributor for this single board sale, there is insignificant margin in this product for me to deal with it on the board level sales scale. Carefull shopping for a local reputable company would be your best bet! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 23:25:17 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA10393 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:25:17 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10383 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:25:07 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA18606; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:09:19 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508160609.XAA18606@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: darrylo@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com (Darryl Okahata) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508160302.AA165102177@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> from "Darryl Okahata" at Aug 15, 95 08:02:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2725 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > two sets of 3053's stripped would be incredible....especially at > > under 40 cents a megabyte > > A potentially good deal right now is the Quantum Lightning 730S > (~699MB formatted, 4500RPM, 11ms avg. seek). The internal version is > selling for about $230 (APS Technologies), which translates into around > $0.32/MB. With a 1542CF controller, I get around 2MB/sec sustained > transfers (iozone results have been appended). Not great, but not bad, > either. For more info, see: The ``Lightning'' series of drives are specifically aimed at the dollar sensitive PC market, have a slow 11ms access time, a slow 4500rpm spindle speed, and are totally missing the ability to do spindle sync operations. The DEC/Quantum DSP3000 series of drives (which the 3053L is a member) are specifically aimed at the high end high performance workstation market (this is the series of drives DEC used in Alpha's). They have fast 9.5mS access times, fast 5400RPM spindle speeds, and have the spindle sync function. It is not fair to compare $/MB between different ``classes'' of disk drives. The 2MB/sec you are seeing is the limitation of your aha1542CF controller, the lightning series of drives should do closer to 3MB/sec on a proper controller. > http://www.quantum.com/products/lightng.html > > I've got no connections with Quantum, aside from being a customer. Disclaimer: I have connections with Quantum, I am a Quantum VAR, I am also a Quantum customer in a very big way. > The only downside is that the 730S has only a 2yr warranty. I > guess I'll find out what the reliability is like. There are more downsides to that drive than just the 2yr warranty, as stated above, and it has a MTBF that leaves me wondering just how long past the 2 years it might live :-(. > -- Darryl Okahata > Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com > > DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not > constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the > little green men that have been following him all day. :-) I though the HP security folks had blue shirts :-). > =============================================================================== > IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) > By Bill Norcott > > Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() > > IOZONE: auto-test mode ... Defanitly the aha1542 speed limit looking at these numbers!! They are all too familiar to me! Anyone have the 730S numbers run on a PCI controller of some type? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 15 23:33:39 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA10906 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:33:39 -0700 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10882 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:33:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA01458; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:32:33 -0600 Message-Id: <199508160632.AAA01458@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Steve Passe To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI controller questions??? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:56:59 PDT." <199508160556.WAA18582@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:32:30 -0600 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > ... or HP1533 is my current recommendations here I bought an HP1533A around January of 95. Works great EXCEPT that I can't read some DDS-1 tapes (WangDat drives for sure) HP claims to have quit shipping them while they fixed the problem, unfortunately that occured after I bought mine. I also found out that the 1533A is an OEM version and HP provides NO warranty for it. Make sure that the seller provides a good warrenty! They also claim there is no fix for early (ie, mine) models. I specifically bought this model hoping for backwards compatibility, I'm bummed... -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 00:12:36 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA11807 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:12:36 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11801 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:12:31 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA18845; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:11:11 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508160711.AAA18845@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI controller questions??? To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508160632.AAA01458@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Aug 16, 95 00:32:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1773 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hello, > > > ... or HP1533 is my current recommendations here > > I bought an HP1533A around January of 95. Works great EXCEPT > that I can't read some DDS-1 tapes (WangDat drives for sure) > HP claims to have quit shipping them while they fixed the problem, > unfortunately that occured after I bought mine. I also found out > that the 1533A is an OEM version and HP provides NO warranty for it. ^^^^ most likely _your_ particular serial number Technically you can't by the OEM version of the HP1533 as an end user, that would be a grey market product, since HP's OEM agreement states that units sold under it are to be integrated and sold in an OEM system. Even as a VAR I can not buy HP OEM products, technically, unless some one has violated the HP OEM agreement. If you obtained an OEM HP1533A, then it was through grey market channels. > Make sure that the seller provides a good warrenty! They also claim > there is no fix for early (ie, mine) models. I specifically bought > this model hoping for backwards compatibility, I'm bummed... I will investigate these issues further tomarrow during the day. I deal mostly with large reputable _AUTHORIZED_ distribution channels so all product I buy carry warranties. All products I sell carry a minimum 1 year warranty. HP is a real stickler on this issue, and will quickly kill an OEM's discounts if it is caught violating the agreement, as that does damage to the official distribution market. Other vendors simply turn there back and look the other way when an OEM dumps product onto the open market do to purchasing to much of it :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 00:35:08 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA12382 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:35:08 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA12375 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:35:04 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA28115 for hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 17:37:25 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508160807.RAA28115@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: NCR or Adaptec? To: hardware@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 17:37:24 +0930 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 821 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm in the process of speccing up my new PCI wonderbox, and I'm looking for commentary on the relative merits of NCR 53C810 vs. Adaptec 2940 when it comes to PCI SCSI controllers. The particular NCR card I'm being quoted on is the ASUS PCI SC200. I'll be talking to a 4G Seagate Hawk (ST15230N) and a Sony CDU76S with it initially, and probably an Exabyte EXB8200. Any comments? If the Adaptec is worth the extra $300 or so, I'll bite. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 01:25:14 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA14297 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 01:25:14 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA14286 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 01:24:56 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA18985; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 01:23:35 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508160823.BAA18985@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: NCR or Adaptec? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 01:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508160807.RAA28115@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Aug 16, 95 05:37:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1780 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm in the process of speccing up my new PCI wonderbox, and I'm > looking for commentary on the relative merits of NCR 53C810 vs. Adaptec > 2940 when it comes to PCI SCSI controllers. My benchmarks on running ``make world'' on the exact same system, only chang being swapping an ASUS SC-200 for an adaptec 2940 showed a 10 minute delta in favor of the adaptec on a 3 hour 27 minute run time. This machine is an ASUS PCI/I-P54TP4XE with 256k of 8ns PBurst cache, A80502-100 SX963 CPU, 32MB of 60nS memory, Compex ENET-32PCI ethernet, DEC/Quantum DSP3053L disk drive. > > The particular NCR card I'm being quoted on is the ASUS PCI SC200. Hope your not paying too much down in .au land for this stuff! > I'll be talking to a 4G Seagate Hawk (ST15230N) and a Sony CDU76S > with it initially, and probably an Exabyte EXB8200. Given you are talking to a single disk drive, I doubt that the AHA2940 is worth the $300.00. The place this controller starts to pull away seriously from the NCR card is in either 3 or more disks on 1 controller, or 3 or more controllers on the PCI bus. I do not have good data on multiple controller aha2940 setups, but I do know that the NCR rolls off in total bandwidth at 3 or more drives on a single bus, or more than 3 controllers doing concurrent access. This occurs before CPU cycle saturation, so it is not a CPU bottleneck. > Any comments? If the Adaptec is worth the extra $300 or so, I'll bite. IMHO, not for a single user or single disk system, you'll never create the I/O load to use the advanced features of the aha2940, and thus save the $300 and spend it else where. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 02:19:23 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA16188 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:19:23 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA16179 ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:19:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:19:21 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199508160919.CAA16179@freefall.FreeBSD.org> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk By and far, micropolis stood up to this type of ``abuse'' better than anyone, except we keep have this fun little problem with the drives :-) Well, I'm totally bummed that my Microplis 2217 just died 2 days ago and I have yet to recover. It was my boot drive, my FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 system, as well as my home directory, which hasn't been back up for weeks since FreeBSD 2.0 dump doesn't like converted FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 partitions. I'm totally bummed. Oh well, I just had to get that off my chest. I'm totally bummed. I'm reduced to typing this message on my sister's DOS pc with the modem I moved over from my non-bootable machine. Jeffrey From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 02:52:58 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA17383 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:52:58 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA17377 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:52:52 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA28491; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:54:52 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508161024.TAA28491@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: NCR or Adaptec? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:54:51 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508160823.BAA18985@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 16, 95 01:23:35 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1718 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > > > > I'm in the process of speccing up my new PCI wonderbox, and I'm > > looking for commentary on the relative merits of NCR 53C810 vs. Adaptec > > 2940 when it comes to PCI SCSI controllers. > > My benchmarks on running ``make world'' on the exact same system, only > chang being swapping an ASUS SC-200 for an adaptec 2940 showed a 10 minute > delta in favor of the adaptec on a 3 hour 27 minute run time. Thanks Rod, I've spent the change I've saved here on a CDU76S; I wanted a CDROM but couldn't keep it under $7500 8) > > The particular NCR card I'm being quoted on is the ASUS PCI SC200. > > Hope your not paying too much down in .au land for this stuff! Likewise : I don't think so - the 2940 is about $350 and the ASUS is ~$280 less. > Given you are talking to a single disk drive, I doubt that the > AHA2940 is worth the $300.00. The place this controller starts to > pull away seriously from the NCR card is in either 3 or more disks > on 1 controller, or 3 or more controllers on the PCI bus. One, possibly two disks down the track. I wanted to try the multi-disk approach, but for the price of four of the 500M quantums I got a Hawk-4, and the space is vital... > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Thanks for the advice. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 03:01:13 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA17765 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 03:01:13 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA17756 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 03:01:10 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA28534; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:03:06 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508161033.UAA28534@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: hsu@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:03:06 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508160919.CAA16179@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Aug 16, 95 02:19:21 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1457 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jeffrey Hsu stands accused of saying: > Well, I'm totally bummed that my Microplis 2217 just died 2 days ago 8( Consolation. If it's any comfort, I recently did a panic upgrade to 2.0.5 for a local ISP whose bootdisk (Seagate ST6550A) went farming. In the space of less than three hours it scored _every_ face on all three platters _except_ the top one. (The servo surface looked like an etch-a-sketch 8) > and I have yet to recover. It was my boot drive, my FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 > system, as well as my home directory, which hasn't been back up > for weeks since FreeBSD 2.0 dump doesn't like converted FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 > partitions. I'm totally bummed. Oh well, I just had to get that off This is not necessarily true. I've mounted 1.1.5.1 partitions under 2.0 and 2.0.5 with no trouble. You have to restore an alternate masterblock going back, as 1.1.5.1 doesn't grok what 2+ does to it. > my chest. I'm totally bummed. I'm reduced to typing this message on my > sister's DOS pc with the modem I moved over from my non-bootable machine. FWIW, *hug* > Jeffrey -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 03:19:06 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA18134 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 03:19:06 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA18127 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 03:19:03 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA19269; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 03:18:04 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508161018.DAA19269@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: hsu@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 03:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508160919.CAA16179@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Aug 16, 95 02:19:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1409 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > By and far, micropolis stood up to this type of ``abuse'' better than > anyone, except we keep have this fun little problem with the drives :-) > > Well, I'm totally bummed that my Microplis 2217 just died 2 days ago > and I have yet to recover. It was my boot drive, my FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 > system, as well as my home directory, which hasn't been back up > for weeks since FreeBSD 2.0 dump doesn't like converted FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 > partitions. I'm totally bummed. Oh well, I just had to get that off > my chest. I'm totally bummed. I'm reduced to typing this message on my > sister's DOS pc with the modem I moved over from my non-bootable machine. I am sorry to here this. But even Micropolis disk drives do fail, every ones disk drives fail. You can have some confort in knowing that your Micropolis 2217 should be backed by a 5 year manufacture warranty, and you may have lost some data, buy you are not out the money you payed for this drive. Since that drive model is only 2.5 years old, it can't be out of warranty yet! If I can be of assistance to you in contacing Micropolis for an RMA number, please let me know. My books show the end user RMA phone line to be (818) 709-3325. (really the tech support line). > Jeffrey -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 07:45:05 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA01286 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 07:45:05 -0700 Received: from netmail.austin.ibm.com (netmail.austin.ibm.com [129.35.208.98]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA01247 ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 07:44:57 -0700 Received: from mojave.austin.ibm.com (mojave.austin.ibm.com [129.35.128.45]) by netmail.austin.ibm.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA87798; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:44:48 -0500 Received: from localhost.austin.ibm.com by mojave.austin.ibm.com (AIX 9532A-UP 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-client-2.6) for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org at austin.ibm.com; id AA27794; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:44:35 -0500 Message-Id: <9508161444.AA27794@mojave.austin.ibm.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: problems with matcd0 on Packard Bell Force 442CDT on 2.0.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa0" Content-Id: <24962.808584206.0@mojave.austin.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:44:32 -0500 From: Dave Marquardt Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <24962.808584206.1@mojave.austin.ibm.com> I own a Packard Bell Force 442CDT system, which has 75 MHz Pentium 8 MB RAM Cirrus Logic GD-5434 SVGA board w/ 1MB VRAM 850 MB IDE hard drive 1.44 MB 3.5" floppy drive Parallel port Serial port Sound144 card, which includes 14.4K fax/data modem SoundBlaster compatible sound functions MPU401 MIDI port Game port Panasonic/Matsushita CR-563 CD-ROM interface 2X CD-ROM drive I'm running FreeBSD 2.0.5, and I've managed to get everything to work EXCEPT the CD-ROM drive. I've configured matcd0 with the default line from the LINT config file, and the probe code doesn't see the CD-ROM. I tried looking at how things are configured on the DOS/Windows side, and I did find that the CD-ROM port was 0x340. I don't know if this is the port the Sound144 card uses to talk to the CD-ROM somehow, or if it's the port the system needs to use. 0x340 is way different from what I see in the port_hints[] array in /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/matcd/options.h, so I wonder if 0x340 is really what I want. When I change the config line for matcd0 to controller matcd0 at isa? port 0x340 bio I get this error message over and over again, and have to reset the machine: matcd0: get_stat: After reading status byte, bus didn't go idle ff f7 340 >From the code I see that ff is the status byte, f7 is the bus status byte, and 340 is the port. Have others with Packard Bell machines had any better luck than I have hadconfiguring the CD-ROM driver? Any suggestions? I've turned on DEBUGPROBE and DEBUGCMD, and it just tells me that it's trying all of the ports in port_hints[]. Any help will be much appreciated! Thanks! I'm including my config file (LEFSE) and the output from dmesg.out for a kernel that uses the probe_hints[] array where I have DEBUGPROBE and DEBUGCMD turned on. ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <24962.808584206.2@mojave.austin.ibm.com> Content-Description: LEFSE config file # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # GENERIC,v 1.45.2.3 1995/06/05 21:50:41 jkh Exp # machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident LEFSE maxusers 10 options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options HARDFONTS options SYSVSHM config kernel root on wd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 controller matcd0 at isa? port 0x340 bio options DEBUGPROBE options DEBUGCMD # sound card controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr #device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 2 # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" conflicts tty irq 12 vector psmintr # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. #device de0 #device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ie0 at isa? port 0x360 net irq 7 iomem 0xd0000 vector ieintr #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr #device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 vector le_intr #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device lnc1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector zpintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 1 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device #pseudo-device ppp 1 #pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <24962.808584206.3@mojave.austin.ibm.com> Content-Description: dmesg output when using hunt array FreeBSD 2.0.5-RELEASE #2: Sun Aug 13 20:45:13 CDT 1995 drm@myname.my.domain:/usr/src/sys/compile/LEFSE CPU: 74-MHz Pentium 735\\90 or 815\\100 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x524 Stepping=4 Features=0x1bf real memory = 7995392 (1952 pages) avail memory = 6840320 (1670 pages) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface psm0 at 0x60-0x63 irq 12 on motherboard fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 815MB (1669248 sectors), 1656 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S matcdc0: In probe i 0 y 4 port ffffffff matcd0: size of port_hints 20 matcdc0: Port hint 230 matcdc0: Probe DID NOT find something matcdc0: Port hint 240 matcdc0: Probe DID NOT find something matcdc0: Port hint 250 matcdc0: Probe DID NOT find something matcdc0: Port hint 260 matcdc0: Probe DID NOT find something matcdc0: Port hint ffffffff matcd0 not found at 0xffffffff sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa sb0: npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface Probing for devices on the pci0 bus: configuration mode 2 allows 16 devices. chip0 rev 17 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 3 on pci0:2 vga0 rev 216 on pci0:3 pci0: uses 16777216 bytes of memory from a0000000 upto a0ffffff. ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <24962.808584206.4@mojave.austin.ibm.com> -- Dave Marquardt SMTP: marquard@austin.ibm.com VNET: MARQUARD at AUSTIN T/L 678-1139 +1 512 838-1139 ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0-- From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 09:54:04 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA11954 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:54:04 -0700 Received: from hp.com (hp.com [15.255.152.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA11946 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:54:02 -0700 Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA138612019; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:53:40 -0700 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA077432018; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:53:39 -0700 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA289062017; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:53:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199508161653.AA289062017@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:09:19 PDT." <199508160609.XAA18606@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:53:36 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > A potentially good deal right now is the Quantum Lightning 730S > > (~699MB formatted, 4500RPM, 11ms avg. seek). The internal version is > > The ``Lightning'' series of drives are specifically aimed at the dollar > sensitive PC market, have a slow 11ms access time, a slow 4500rpm spindle > speed, and are totally missing the ability to do spindle sync operations. True. I guess I didn't make it clear in my message, but I posted my message for those people who are more concerned about price than performance. Quantum's WWW page says that the 730S has an 11ms average *SEEK* time. I've always thought that the access time was greater than the seek time (the seek time doesn't include spindle latency); if so, the 730S might be closer to a 17-18ms average access time drive (11ms + 1/2 the platter rotational time). Definitely not a fast performer. > The DEC/Quantum DSP3000 series of drives (which the 3053L is a member) > are specifically aimed at the high end high performance workstation market > (this is the series of drives DEC used in Alpha's). They have fast 9.5mS > access times, fast 5400RPM spindle speeds, and have the spindle sync > function. Out of curiousity, does anyone know the approximate street price of, say, the 3053L (and 3107L and 3210)? Where's a good/reliable place to get one (good customer service is more important than price)? I've been thinking about getting yet another drive, and I'm currently looking at a 2GB Micropolis drive. > The 2MB/sec you are seeing is the limitation of your aha1542CF controller, > the lightning series of drives should do closer to 3MB/sec on a proper > controller. I thought that the 1542CF might be the limiting factor, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for the verification. -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the little green men that have been following him all day. From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 10:00:34 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA12345 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:00:34 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA12339 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:00:33 -0700 Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA18717 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:56:44 -0700 Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (root@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id TAA02568 for hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:36:12 +0300 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA00221 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:51:30 +0300 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA07694; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:51:30 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199508161551.SAA07694@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: NCR or Adaptec? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:51:29 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508160807.RAA28115@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Aug 16, 95 05:37:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1295 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Dear Mike, # I'm in the process of speccing up my new PCI wonderbox, and I'm # looking for commentary on the relative merits of NCR 53C810 vs. Adaptec # 2940 when it comes to PCI SCSI controllers. # # The particular NCR card I'm being quoted on is the ASUS PCI SC200. # [...] # Any comments? If the Adaptec is worth the extra $300 or so, I'll bite. # of course, YMMV, but: a while ago I tested PCI Adaptec with 7870 chip on it against the NCR 53c810-based single-chip controller (SP-810) on _the same_ hardware, this means that the box, the motherboard, the 2 1Gb IBM disk drives and the CDROM were the same, the P90 CPU and 32M of RAM were the same, just only HBA changed, and FreeBSD-2.0.5 was the same installation, even the directory where iozone ran was the same. iozone 128 8192 gave: 3.2/3.4 Mb/sec for Adaptec; 4.0/4.1 Mb/sec for NCR. So both are good, and congratulations to the authors of both drivers; BUT: maybe I'm crazy, but $70 NCR won vs. $350 Adaptec with 20% speedup! I think that both the driver is great, and the overhead on a simple single-chip NCR is significantly lower than on Adaptec, especially considering it's 2-lawyer software/firmware design. Or am I missing smth? -- With best wishes -- Andrew Stesin, Elvisti.Kiev.UA sysadmin. From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 11:29:02 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA20087 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:29:02 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA20060 ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:28:56 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA29545; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 04:31:12 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508161901.EAA29545@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: problems with matcd0 on Packard Bell Force 442CDT on 2.0.5 To: marquard@austin.ibm.com (Dave Marquardt) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 04:31:12 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9508161444.AA27794@mojave.austin.ibm.com> from "Dave Marquardt" at Aug 16, 95 09:44:32 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1593 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Dave Marquardt stands accused of saying: > Sound144 card, which includes > 14.4K fax/data modem > SoundBlaster compatible sound functions > MPU401 MIDI port > Game port > Panasonic/Matsushita CR-563 CD-ROM interface > 2X CD-ROM drive > > I'm running FreeBSD 2.0.5, and I've managed to get everything to work > EXCEPT the CD-ROM drive. I've configured matcd0 with the default line > from the LINT config file, and the probe code doesn't see the CD-ROM. > I tried looking at how things are configured on the DOS/Windows side, > and I did find that the CD-ROM port was 0x340. I don't know if this > is the port the Sound144 card uses to talk to the CD-ROM somehow, or > if it's the port the system needs to use. 0x340 is way different from > what I see in the port_hints[] array in > /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/matcd/options.h, so I wonder if 0x340 is really > what I want. After corresponding with the author of the matcd driver, I understand that the version of the driver in 2.0.5R is only suitable for use with genuine SB16 adapters. Newer versions of the driver support other cards (like yours) >From first impressions, it appears that the driver is a straight-forward drop-in. > Dave Marquardt -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 12:08:46 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA23049 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:08:46 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA23031 ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:08:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:08:44 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199508161908.MAA23031@freefall.FreeBSD.org> To: hsu@freefall.FreeBSD.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > and I have yet to recover. It was my boot drive, my FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 > system, as well as my home directory, which hasn't been back up > for weeks since FreeBSD 2.0 dump doesn't like converted FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 > partitions. This is not necessarily true. I've mounted 1.1.5.1 partitions under 2.0 and 2.0.5 with no trouble. It's the dump program that seems to have problems. Spews tons of error messages about failed lseek and reads. From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 13:15:11 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA26069 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 13:15:11 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26044 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 13:14:53 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id QAA05938; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:03:55 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:03:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: i82424ZX vs i82424TX cache dram controller To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk anyone able to clue me in on the diffs between the Zx and the Tx ?? i just picked up a book _pci_system_architecture_ from mindshare. cost $5 and talks about the i82420 TX pci chipset. is this the saturn chipset vs saturn ii chipset ? why was the saturn chipset replaced--new features or faulty chipset ? jmb ps. the asus sp3g uses: chip0 on pci0:0 chip1 on pci0:2 the book talks of: intel 82424TX cache dram controller intel 82423TX data path unit intel 82378IB pci-isa bridge Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 15:36:09 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA02933 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:36:09 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02927 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:36:07 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA22350 ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 00:36:04 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id AAA18059 ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 00:36:03 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199508162236.AAA18059@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: SCSI controller questions??? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 00:36:03 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: craigh@msn.fullfeed.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508160556.WAA18582@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 15, 95 10:56:59 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 741 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > 3Com 3C501 Ethernet adapter (free from a friend) > > Free is a very nice price, but this is unsupported by FreeBSD :-(. It Nah, it is, read the FAQ :-) It is the "el" driver : /* 3COM Etherlink 3C501 device driver for FreeBSD */ /* Yeah, I know these cards suck, but you can also get them for free * really easily... */ > is an old old old DMA type ethernet card. Throw it in the garbage can > and go spend $45 on a decent NE2000/WD8013 clone card. I recomend the > Compex Freedom line run in NE2000 mode for minimal fuss on the ISA bus. I'd recommand the WD8013 over the NE2000 though. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 15:47:19 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA03385 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:47:19 -0700 Received: from feephi.phofarm.com (feephi.phofarm.com [204.242.60.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA03379 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:47:17 -0700 Received: (from dzerkel@localhost) by feephi.phofarm.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA03280; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:45:57 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:45:57 -0400 From: "Danny J. Zerkel" Message-Id: <199508162245.SAA03280@feephi.phofarm.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, jmb@kryten.atinc.com Subject: Re: i82424ZX vs i82424TZ cache dram controller Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Jonathan M. Bresler" writes: >anyone able to clue me in on the diffs between the Zx and the Tx ?? > >i just picked up a book _pci_system_architecture_ from mindshare. cost >$5 and talks about the i82420 TX pci chipset. is this the saturn >chipset vs saturn ii chipset ? > > why was the saturn chipset replaced--new features or faulty >chipset ? Intel usually makes the letter change when the update the chip's revision number. More than likely, the TX is a 60/66MHz chip and the ZX has been updated to support 75/90/100MHz. There are probably some other changes. I've been planning on updating the pcisupport.c code to reflect this chip, just haven't picked up the book yet. Danny J. Zerkel Photon Farmers http://www.phofarm.com/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 16:11:54 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA04060 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:11:54 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA04053 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:11:51 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA21113; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:53:56 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508162253.PAA21113@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: darrylo@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com (Darryl Okahata) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508161653.AA289062017@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> from "Darryl Okahata" at Aug 16, 95 09:53:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3236 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > A potentially good deal right now is the Quantum Lightning 730S > > > (~699MB formatted, 4500RPM, 11ms avg. seek). The internal version is > > > > The ``Lightning'' series of drives are specifically aimed at the dollar > > sensitive PC market, have a slow 11ms access time, a slow 4500rpm spindle > > speed, and are totally missing the ability to do spindle sync operations. > > True. I guess I didn't make it clear in my message, but I posted > my message for those people who are more concerned about price than > performance. Quantum's WWW page says that the 730S has an 11ms average > *SEEK* time. I've always thought that the access time was greater than My error, thats what I get for rattling specs off after skipping a nights worth of sleep. It is SEEK times above and below that I was quoting. > the seek time (the seek time doesn't include spindle latency); if so, > the 730S might be closer to a 17-18ms average access time drive (11ms + > 1/2 the platter rotational time). Definitely not a fast performer. Those numbers are correct. > > The DEC/Quantum DSP3000 series of drives (which the 3053L is a member) > > are specifically aimed at the high end high performance workstation market > > (this is the series of drives DEC used in Alpha's). They have fast 9.5mS > > access times, fast 5400RPM spindle speeds, and have the spindle sync ^^^^^^ SEEK (Rod takes his small rubber mallet and bashes head :-)). > > function. > > Out of curiousity, does anyone know the approximate street price > of, say, the 3053L (and 3107L and 3210)? Where's a good/reliable place > to get one (good customer service is more important than price)? I've > been thinking about getting yet another drive, and I'm currently looking > at a 2GB Micropolis drive. I have been unable to obtain the 3107 or 3210 drives for some time, and my supplier of 3053L drives has informed me that he just bought the last that he can get. The drive line is being discontiuned :-(. My current advertized (not really, more like public posting) price on the 3053L drive is $220.00, there are approximately 1000 units sitting at my source, about enough to get by for a month or two and I'll be looking for new drive models :-( If you are looking at the MC3221, that is a nice little screamer, or what I more often sell is a AT32150S Quantum Atlas series drive, another nice small, reasonably quite for a 7200RPM'er, _FAST_ disk drive, a bit steep on the price curve though. > > The 2MB/sec you are seeing is the limitation of your aha1542CF controller, > > the lightning series of drives should do closer to 3MB/sec on a proper > > controller. > > I thought that the 1542CF might be the limiting factor, but I wasn't > sure. Thanks for the verification. Your welcome. Adaptec white papers claim they got 4MB/sec from an old slow crusty quantum disk many many years ago, but I have never ever seen an AHA1542CF break the 2.5MB/sec barrier, except when run at 10Mhz ISA bus speeds, and few motherboards can run anything above 5.7MHz ISA DMA bus speeds. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 18:03:18 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA08105 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:03:18 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08099 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:03:14 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA21491; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:02:22 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508170102.SAA21491@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: i82424ZX vs i82424TX cache dram controller To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Aug 16, 95 04:03:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2513 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > anyone able to clue me in on the diffs between the Zx and the Tx ?? > > i just picked up a book _pci_system_architecture_ from mindshare. cost > $5 and talks about the i82420 TX pci chipset. is this the saturn > chipset vs saturn ii chipset ? Intel has done some real brain twisters in chip set model numbers, names and postfixes. i82420 is used as a generic number to refer to a family of PCI chip sets, usually used for 486 designs. The i82430 generic number is used to refer to a family of PCI chip sets, usually used for Pentium designs. The Saturn I, and II chip sets are a subclass of i82420. > why was the saturn chipset replaced--new features or faulty > chipset ? Officially the former, technically, and really, the latter. Intel is good at this. When the announced ``Triton'' it was a wonderful new great thing, then 30 days later, they came out and said oh, and by the way, Neptune does have these nasty bugs in it, but we fixed them in the Triton chip set. They just pulled the same stunt with Triton vs Triton II. Only this time they are ``adding'' the main memory and PCI parity checking as a feature, instead of ``fixing the bug'' of leaving this functionality totally out of Triton I, for no good and real reason (yea, sure it was a cost saving feature, like it saved all of $5.00 to leave that out of a chip set, and I am talking about end user cost). > jmb > > ps. the asus sp3g uses: > chip0 on pci0:0 > chip1 on pci0:2 You left out a bit of that string, and it is an important part: chip0 rev 4 on pci0:0 ^^^^^ As far as I can assertain rev 0, 1 and 2 are Saturn I, 3 and 4 are Saturn II. Since Intel data books do not publish code names, it is very hard to figure these things out at times :-(. chip1 rev 132 on pci0:2 > > the book talks of: > intel 82424TX cache dram controller > intel 82423TX data path unit > intel 82378IB pci-isa bridge The TX vs ZX are feature changes in the same chip set, the same data sheet is used for both parts. The book is most likely talking about Saturn I. I can't even find in data in my Intel library on the 82424TX chip :-(. But then, I don't have the Saturn data book sheets. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 18:12:21 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA08399 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:12:21 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08354 ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:11:37 -0700 Received: from ast.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzdcm23151; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 21:09:20 -0400 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA24728 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:09:34 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Wed, 16 Aug 95 20:09 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0sitB0-0004w7C; Wed, 16 Aug 95 19:51 CDT Message-Id: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 19:51 CDT To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, marquard@austin.ibm.com From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Wed Aug 16 1995, 19:51:18 CDT Subject: problems with matcd0 on Packard Bell Force 442CDT on 2.0.5 Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [0]I own a Packard Bell Force 442CDT system, which has [0]... [0]Sound144 card, which includes [0] 14.4K fax/data modem [0] SoundBlaster compatible sound functions ***********!!!!!********** [0] MPU401 MIDI port [0] Game port [0] Panasonic/Matsushita CR-563 CD-ROM interface [0]2X CD-ROM drive [0]I'm running FreeBSD 2.0.5, and I've managed to get everything to work [0]EXCEPT the CD-ROM drive. I've configured matcd0 with the default line [0]from the LINT config file, and the probe code doesn't see the CD-ROM. [0]I tried looking at how things are configured on the DOS/Windows side, [0]and I did find that the CD-ROM port was 0x340. I don't know if this This ought to be in the FAQ. Oh, *it IS*! It's in hardware.hlp on the 2.0.5 CD-ROM, and is also on the matcd man page (matcd.4). Here is the Quick replay from the same question from two days ago: The version of the matcd driver in 2.0.5 supports ONLY adapter cards from Creative Labs, ie GENUINE SoundBlaster cards. Knock-off cards, partcularly those with the I/O port at 0x340 or higher are not compatible and don't work. The knock-off cards have similar I/O ports and commands for "sound functions" but the CD-ROM interface is different. The board makers figure it doesn't matter since the games and stuff are going to use the provided CD-ROM driver and MSCDEX (under DOS) to access the drive anyway. (Only the sound part of the board has to be identical or people complain.) To support NON-Creative Labs sound cards Panasonic CD-ROM interfaces, you need the latest matcd driver, which can be found in -current and hopefully soon in a SNAP. It will also be in FreeBSD 2.1. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Fastest Route)| demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"A what?" ...decvax!fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 19:07:41 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA10850 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:07:41 -0700 Received: from lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw [140.109.7.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA10785 ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:07:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199508170207.TAA10785@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Received: by lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA08557; Thu, 17 Aug 95 09:51:10 +0800 From: Yen-Wei Liu Subject: Re: problems with matcd0 on Packard Bell Force 442CDT on 2.0.5 To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 9:51:09 EAT Cc: marquard@austin.ibm.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508161901.EAA29545@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from "Michael Smith" at Aug 17, 95 4:31 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > what I see in the port_hints[] array in > > /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/matcd/options.h, so I wonder if 0x340 is really > > what I want. > > After corresponding with the author of the matcd driver, I understand that > the version of the driver in 2.0.5R is only suitable for use with > genuine SB16 adapters. Newer versions of the driver support other > cards (like yours) > I believe so. I have a Ultrasound clone with Panasonic interface and first I installed it with a borrowed SCSI CD-ROM and then grasped the matcd/* from SNAP version and make a new kernel. Everything works fine now. -- Yen-Wei Liu Internet e-mail address:ywliu@beta.wsl.sinica.edu.tw ywliu@gate.sinica.edu.tw FAX: +886-2-783-6444 From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 19:14:32 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA11592 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:14:32 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA11583 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:14:29 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA21740; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:03:59 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508170203.TAA21740@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI controller questions??? To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: craigh@msn.fullfeed.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508162236.AAA18059@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Aug 17, 95 00:36:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1424 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > 3Com 3C501 Ethernet adapter (free from a friend) > > > > Free is a very nice price, but this is unsupported by FreeBSD :-(. It > > Nah, it is, read the FAQ :-) It is the "el" driver : Oh, gee, that thing finally was made workable. Okay, revise my statement ``Free is a very nice price, but your bandwidth will be about the same as the dollars you payed'' :-). > /* 3COM Etherlink 3C501 device driver for FreeBSD */ > /* Yeah, I know these cards suck, but you can also get them for free > * really easily... > */ > > > is an old old old DMA type ethernet card. Throw it in the garbage can > > and go spend $45 on a decent NE2000/WD8013 clone card. I recomend the > > Compex Freedom line run in NE2000 mode for minimal fuss on the ISA bus. > > I'd recommand the WD8013 over the NE2000 though. Perhaps you misunderstood. The card can do both NE2000 and WD8013 emulation. The hassle of doing the WD8013 mode shared memory conflict resolution, the fact you have to have flag 0x4, and memsiz 16384 turned on can cause first time users to have some hair loss, so for minimal fuss set the card to NE2000 mode, irq5, io 0x280, and just go. The wd8013 mode does have better performance, but only if your talking to someone else who can do 1.1MB/sec :-). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 19:20:54 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA11851 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:20:54 -0700 Received: from lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw [140.109.7.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA11809 ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:19:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199508170219.TAA11809@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Received: by lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA08748; Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:05:16 +0800 From: Yen-Wei Liu Subject: Re: problems with matcd0 on Packard Bell Force 442CDT on 2.0.5 To: ywliu@lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (Yen-Wei Liu) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:05:16 EAT Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, marquard@austin.ibm.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508170207.TAA10785@freefall.FreeBSD.org>; from "Yen-Wei Liu" at Aug 17, 95 9:51 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I believe so. I have a Ultrasound clone with Panasonic interface and first > I installed it with a borrowed SCSI CD-ROM and then grasped the matcd/* from > SNAP version and make a new kernel. Everything works fine now. ^^^^^^^ I meant -current. -- Yen-Wei Liu Internet e-mail address:ywliu@beta.wsl.sinica.edu.tw ywliu@gate.sinica.edu.tw FAX: +886-2-783-6444 From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 16 19:23:06 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA12289 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:23:06 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA12279 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:23:00 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <01077-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:57:38 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id MAA12035 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:02:18 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id CAA16139 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 02:00:06 GMT Message-Id: <199508170200.CAA16139@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Active termination & CDC WREN 6 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:00:04 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've mislaid my WREN 6 notes, and need to jumper it so it will work on a cable with active termination (a good friend gave me one of those monster DEC cables, and whilst the 2 Quantums will play, the WREN 6 stubbornly refuses to be seen). I'm told that a couple of jumpers need to be set for the WREN 6 to supply TERMPWR to the bus, but I'm a bit hazy as to what they are. Does anyone have a clue? Stephen I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 17 06:36:50 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA11187 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 06:36:50 -0700 Received: from netmail.austin.ibm.com (netmail.austin.ibm.com [129.35.208.98]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA11157 ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 06:36:42 -0700 Received: from mojave.austin.ibm.com (mojave.austin.ibm.com [129.35.128.45]) by netmail.austin.ibm.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id IAA52269; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:33:30 -0500 Received: from localhost.austin.ibm.com by mojave.austin.ibm.com (AIX 9532A-UP 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-client-2.6) for msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au at austin.ibm.com; id AA24690; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:33:16 -0500 Message-Id: <9508171333.AA24690@mojave.austin.ibm.com> To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Michael Smith Subject: Re: problems with matcd0 on Packard Bell Force 442CDT on 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:33:15 -0500 From: Dave Marquardt Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Aug 95 19:51 CDT Frank Durda IV wrote: > [0]I own a Packard Bell Force 442CDT system, which has > [0]... > [0]Sound144 card, which includes > [0] 14.4K fax/data modem > [0] SoundBlaster compatible sound functions > ***********!!!!!********** > [0] MPU401 MIDI port > [0] Game port > [0] Panasonic/Matsushita CR-563 CD-ROM interface > [0]2X CD-ROM drive > > [0]I'm running FreeBSD 2.0.5, and I've managed to get everything to work > [0]EXCEPT the CD-ROM drive. I've configured matcd0 with the default line > [0]from the LINT config file, and the probe code doesn't see the CD-ROM. > [0]I tried looking at how things are configured on the DOS/Windows side, > [0]and I did find that the CD-ROM port was 0x340. I don't know if this [ much good stuf deleted ] > To support NON-Creative Labs sound cards Panasonic CD-ROM interfaces, you > need the latest matcd driver, which can be found in -current and hopefully > soon in a SNAP. It will also be in FreeBSD 2.1. Thanks for the help! I grabbed the version of the matcd driver from the 950726 SNAP, and it seems to work just fine. I suspect I can live with the version I have (1(21)) until 2.1. Thanks again! -- Dave Marquardt SMTP: marquard@austin.ibm.com VNET: MARQUARD at AUSTIN T/L 678-1139 +1 512 838-1139 From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 17 08:08:09 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA17661 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:08:09 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA17654 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:08:05 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id KAA07194; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:56:35 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:56:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: i82424ZX vs i82424TX cache dram controller To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508170102.SAA21491@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > ps. the asus sp3g uses: > > chip0 on pci0:0 > > chip1 on pci0:2 > > You left out a bit of that string, and it is an important part: > chip0 rev 4 on pci0:0 > ^^^^^ > As far as I can assertain rev 0, 1 and 2 are Saturn I, 3 and 4 > are Saturn II. Since Intel data books do not publish code names, > it is very hard to figure these things out at times :-(. hmm...looking into pcisupport.c, i see that most printf()'s are #ifdef'ed PROBE_VERBOSE. with PROBE_VERBOSE defined i get: pci0: scanning device 0..15, mechanism=2. chip0 on pci0:0 CPU: 486DX2 or 486DX4, bus=33MHz, CPU->Memory posting ON Warning: NO DRAM parity! Cache: 256KB writethrough, cache clocks=2-1-1-1 DRAM: page mode code fetch, read and write, memory clocks=X-1-2-1 CPU->PCI: posting ON, burst mode OFF PCI->Memory: posting ON [snip] chip1 on pci0:2 [40] 41e23 [50] 0 [54] 4000000 still no rev message--from looking at source that seems to be in -current and 2.0.5R but not in 2.0R jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 17 15:00:46 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA11746 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:00:46 -0700 Received: from relay.hp.com (relay.hp.com [15.255.152.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11735 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:00:40 -0700 Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by relay.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA108666679; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:58:02 -0700 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA115756673; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:57:54 -0700 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA291286672; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:57:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199508172157.AA291286672@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: Stephen Hocking Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Active termination & CDC WREN 6 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:00:04 +1000." <199508170200.CAA16139@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:57:52 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've mislaid my WREN 6 notes, and need to jumper it so it will work on a cabl > e > with active termination (a good friend gave me one of those monster DEC > cables, and whilst the 2 Quantums will play, the WREN 6 stubbornly refuses to As CDC/Imprimis was bought out by Seagate, check out the files under: ftp://ftp.seagate.com/techsuppt/scsi Jumper settings can be found in these files. There's a fair chance that your drive is listed there (my CDC drive was). However, you may have to rummage through "00index.txt", as the drives are listed by Seagate (not CDC) part numbers. -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@sr.hp.com http://web.sr.hp.com/~darrylo/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 17 15:24:30 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA13617 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:24:30 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA13611 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:24:27 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA02274 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 00:24:25 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id AAA21945 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 00:24:24 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199508172224.AAA21945@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: SCSI controller questions??? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 00:24:24 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: craigh@msn.fullfeed.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508170203.TAA21740@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 16, 95 07:03:59 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 577 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps you misunderstood. The card can do both NE2000 and WD8013 > emulation. The hassle of doing the WD8013 mode shared memory conflict > resolution, the fact you have to have flag 0x4, and memsiz 16384 turned > on can cause first time users to have some hair loss, so for minimal > fuss set the card to NE2000 mode, irq5, io 0x280, and just go. I understand better, thanks. I didn't know it was compatible with both. Nice card. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 17 23:17:56 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA03135 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:17:56 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA03124 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:17:53 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA24364; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:16:46 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508180616.XAA24364@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: i82424ZX vs i82424TX cache dram controller To: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Aug 17, 95 10:56:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1547 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > ps. the asus sp3g uses: > > > chip0 on pci0:0 > > > chip1 on pci0:2 > > > > You left out a bit of that string, and it is an important part: > > chip0 rev 4 on pci0:0 > > ^^^^^ > > As far as I can assertain rev 0, 1 and 2 are Saturn I, 3 and 4 > > are Saturn II. Since Intel data books do not publish code names, > > it is very hard to figure these things out at times :-(. > > hmm...looking into pcisupport.c, i see that most printf()'s are > #ifdef'ed PROBE_VERBOSE. with PROBE_VERBOSE defined i get: > > pci0: scanning device 0..15, mechanism=2. > chip0 on pci0:0 > CPU: 486DX2 or 486DX4, bus=33MHz, CPU->Memory posting ON > Warning: NO DRAM parity! > Cache: 256KB writethrough, cache clocks=2-1-1-1 > DRAM: page mode code fetch, read and write, memory clocks=X-1-2-1 > CPU->PCI: posting ON, burst mode OFF > PCI->Memory: posting ON > [snip] > chip1 on pci0:2 > [40] 41e23 [50] 0 [54] 4000000 > > > still no rev message--from looking at source that seems to be in > -current and 2.0.5R but not in 2.0R Oopss.. your running old code :-(... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 08:20:48 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA03230 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 08:20:48 -0700 Received: from silver.sms.fi (silver.sms.fi [194.111.122.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA02522 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 08:15:41 -0700 Received: (from pete@localhost) by silver.sms.fi (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA29469; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 18:03:25 +0300 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 18:03:25 +0300 Message-Id: <199508181503.SAA29469@silver.sms.fi> From: Petri Helenius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i82424ZX vs i82424TX cache dram controller In-Reply-To: <199508180616.XAA24364@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> References: <199508180616.XAA24364@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > still no rev message--from looking at source that seems to be in > > -current and 2.0.5R but not in 2.0R > > Oopss.. your running old code :-(... What one should enable to get the verbose probe in 2.2-CURRENT? I get only: chip0 rev 1 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7 ...and I'm wondering whether there is any parity checking on the chipset. (I've been told that it's unlikely) Pete From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 12:09:53 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA10157 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:09:53 -0700 Received: from penzance.econ.yale.edu (penzance.econ.yale.edu [130.132.32.100]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA10109 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:09:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:08:15 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Bruce Evans cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, john@zyqad.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508131432.AAA29997@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Aug 1995, Bruce Evans wrote: > >> I forgot who mentioned on the list that 4 GB was the limit. What > >>brand is the 9GB SCSI on news.cdrom.com? > > >Sorry? They're lying/mistaken. It used to be a 2GB limit (not 4 - they > >were unsigned ints), but that restriction vanished quite a while ago > >(somewhere between 2.0 and 2.0.5). AFAIR, it's now 1TB. > > The limit for disk addresses used to be 4GB (not 2 - they (sic) were > unsigned ints), due to localized bugs in the disk block to byte > conversion macros. This was fixed quite a while ago. Now the limit is > 31 bits of disk block address and 9 bits of DEV_BSIZE size for a total > of 2^40 = 1TB. > > The limit for file sizes and mmap offsets and/or addresses is 2GB due > to sign extension bugs everywhere. Oh okay, so I wonder when drives that size will be available? Cheers, -Vince- vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering - UC Berkeley Fall '95 SysAdmin bigbang.HIP.Berkeley.EDU - Running FreeBSD, Real UN*X for Free! Chabot Observatory & Science Center - Board of Advisors From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 12:28:39 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA12821 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:28:39 -0700 Received: from crash.ops.neosoft.com (crash.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.50]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA12791 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:28:34 -0700 Received: (from smace@localhost) by crash.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) id OAA10105; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 14:27:14 -0500 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199508181927.OAA10105@crash.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: aha2490W? To: hardware@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 14:27:13 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 66 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is the aha-2940W supported? is anyone using it? Thanks, Scott From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 12:37:34 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA14473 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:37:34 -0700 Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA14443 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:37:22 -0700 Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uuelvis@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id WAA26810 for hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 22:36:10 +0300 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA27174 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 22:25:19 +0300 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA10827 for hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 22:25:17 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199508181925.WAA10827@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: How to recognize bad Conner 1060S ? To: hardware@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 22:25:17 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 357 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello world, :-) being short: How one can tell does Conner 1060 have a bad firmware (as was discussed recently) or an already patched one? Today I got 2 such drives in a new box at work and now I'm very nervous about this. Installation of 2.0.5 from CD is now running... -- With best wishes -- Andrew Stesin, Elvisti.Kiev.UA sysadmin. From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 12:45:54 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA15536 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:45:54 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA15524 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:45:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199508181945.MAA15524@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Scott Mace cc: hardware@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aha2490W? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Aug 95 14:27:13 CDT." <199508181927.OAA10105@crash.ops.neosoft.com> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:45:51 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Is the aha-2940W supported? is anyone using it? > > Thanks, > Scott Yes and yes. You'll want to use the -current driver for it. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 12:57:50 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA17453 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:57:50 -0700 Received: from penzance.econ.yale.edu (penzance.econ.yale.edu [130.132.32.100]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA17447 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:57:48 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:56:13 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Michael Smith cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508140326.MAA20188@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Aug 1995, Michael Smith wrote: > -Vince- stands accused of saying: > >> Micropolis has one of the best track records in the industry for the > >> reliability of thier drives. They were the only vendor for a long time > >> to pass Auspex's reliability requirements. > > > > Hmmmm, okay but I thought Micropolis wasn't that big of a player > > in the market. Isn't Seagates reliable since they are using the > > technology they bought from CDC/Imprimus many years ago atleast on their > > WREN and Elite Drives... > > Seagate make/have made some of the very best, and some of the very worst > disks on the market. As Rod observed, their Hawk and Hawk-II drives > have proven themselves to be very good units. The Barracuda family are > actually reasonably old technology, and weighted their design tradeoffs > very heavily in favour of performance. As a consequence, they have > (possibly) excessive heat dissipation and noise characteristics, but > when they came out, there was nothing that could touch them for speed. Hmmm okay but what drives can touch the barracuda's in terms of speed? > Micropolis have been around for a _long_ time; anyone remember the DEC RD53? > Whilst that wasn't a particularly good disk, they have a really solid > reputation, and (here at least) they offer a 5-year warranty on most of > their disks. That's true but like it seems like wasn't CDC one of the drives that was like a industry standard? > Rod, while we're on disks; the 4G Conner looks great on price, what's > the story on it wrt performance and survivability? I had a bad run > with Conner and Quantum a while ago, but I guess it's time to try again 8) Cheers, -Vince- vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering - UC Berkeley Fall '95 SysAdmin bigbang.HIP.Berkeley.EDU - Running FreeBSD, Real UN*X for Free! Chabot Observatory & Science Center From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 13:11:32 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA19336 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:11:32 -0700 Received: from beru.wustl.edu (beru.wustl.edu [128.252.157.65]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA19310 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:11:28 -0700 Received: by beru.wustl.edu (4.1/ECL-A1.21) id AA02049; Fri, 18 Aug 95 15:09:25 CDT Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 15:09:25 CDT Message-Id: <9508182009.AA02049@beru.wustl.edu> From: Brian Gottlieb To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Scott Mace , hardware@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aha2490W? In-Reply-To: <199508181945.MAA15524@freefall.FreeBSD.org> References: <199508181927.OAA10105@crash.ops.neosoft.com> <199508181945.MAA15524@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Justin T Gibbs (Justin) writes: >> Is the aha-2940W supported? is anyone using it? >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Justin> Yes and yes. You'll want to use the -current driver for it. What is the difference between the 2.0.5R and -current versions of the driver? I'm using a 2940 (not W) with 2.0.5R. brian From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 13:22:51 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20620 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:22:51 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA20600 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:22:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199508182022.NAA20600@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Gottlieb cc: Scott Mace , hardware@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aha2490W? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Aug 95 15:09:25 CDT." <9508182009.AA02049@beru.wustl.edu> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:22:47 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Justin T Gibbs (Justin) writes: > >>> Is the aha-2940W supported? is anyone using it? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Scott > >Justin> Yes and yes. You'll want to use the -current driver for it. > >What is the difference between the 2.0.5R and -current versions of >the driver? > >I'm using a 2940 (not W) with 2.0.5R. > >brian Two race conditions and many performance enhancements. I think that the -current code (other than some improvements in the error detection/ recovery code) will not change much in the future, and so far has proved to be rock solid. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 13:27:21 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA21093 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:27:21 -0700 Received: from penzance.econ.yale.edu (penzance.econ.yale.edu [130.132.32.100]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA21076 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:27:18 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:26:18 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Michael Smith , gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508140938.CAA12601@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > -Vince- stands accused of saying: > > Ahh.. Vince said the 2nd paragraph, I said the first one, please be > carefull with attributions :-) Very nicely said since we don't want to be responsible for what we didn't say =) > > >> Micropolis has one of the best track records in the industry for the > > >> reliability of thier drives. They were the only vendor for a long time > > >> to pass Auspex's reliability requirements. > > > > > > Hmmmm, okay but I thought Micropolis wasn't that big of a player > > > in the market. Isn't Seagates reliable since they are using the > > > technology they bought from CDC/Imprimus many years ago atleast on their > > > WREN and Elite Drives... > > > > Seagate make/have made some of the very best, and some of the very worst > > disks on the market. As Rod observed, their Hawk and Hawk-II drives > > have proven themselves to be very good units. The Barracuda family are > > actually reasonably old technology, and weighted their design tradeoffs > > very heavily in favour of performance. As a consequence, they have > > (possibly) excessive heat dissipation and noise characteristics, but > > when they came out, there was nothing that could touch them for speed. > > Sums things up pretty nicely when we talk about specific drive models. > I, personally, and professionally, have a problem with Seagate, and that > problem is they tend to deliver more ``lemon'' models of drives than > the other vendors. I often deal with cutting edge technology, and don't > like getting lots of lemons when I am trying to do so. Thus, I avoid > any and all Seagate drives until they have been in the field for 6 > months, and then only use them when there is no price/performance > alternative. Right now I will sell the Seagate Hawk series drive (the > only seagate I will sell right now) due to the fact that there is no > other vendor who has an effective substitute, and the fact the drive > has done extremly well in the field. This is a single point at 4G bytes, > and when ever I can I get folks to spend the extra money and sell the > a Micropolis 3423 drive (about 20% higher in price, about the same > performance, but from a vendor I have absolutely no problem at all > trusing my mission critical data to.). My question is didn't CDC/Imprimus actually mad ethe best drives on the market but what happened when Seagate bought their company? > > Micropolis have been around for a _long_ time; anyone remember the DEC RD53? > > Whilst that wasn't a particularly good disk, they have a really solid > > reputation, and (here at least) they offer a 5-year warranty on most of > > their disks. > > Micropolis is not very vissible in the PC market, they are in the high > end workstation/high end file server market. They have one of the best > reliability records in the industry, they are also one of the oldest drive > manufactures in the business, pre dating Seagate if I am not mistaken. Hmmm, but isn't Shugart Technology (now Seagate) actually the inventors of the Hard drives? > Sure, they have made a lemon or two, but it is really hard for me to > come up with specific model numbers, whilst I can rattle off a list > so long of lemon seagates it is sickning. It seems like all the manufacturers are making lemons for some reason. > > Rod, while we're on disks; the 4G Conner looks great on price, what's > > the story on it wrt performance and survivability? I had a bad run > > with Conner and Quantum a while ago, but I guess it's time to try again 8) > > Conner is one supplier I won't touch on the disk drive market. They have > been given some rave reviews, but given there target is and always has > been the lowest dollar end of the market it makes me wonder where they > cut the corners. > > I have never seen a conner disk drive used by any workstation or server > manufacure, so that makes me wonder as well. And until recently you could > not get a warranty longer than one year on Conner products, they had to > revise this to compete, but did they revise the product, or are they > just eating more cost? > > Conner is also very new to the scsi disk drive market, and has made a > few product blunders they have had to fix with firmware upgrades (thank > go the drives are field upgradeable in that respect). Hmmm, how about Western Digital since they used to be alot cheaper than Conner and other brands but now it seems Conner is cheaper than them in costs. > Given that I have _very_ long and good experiences with Quantum (who now > owns DEC's drive division, which I have no problems with either) and > Micropolis I see no reason to go gamble my own businesses lively hood on > other suppliers. Remeber, I am not just a consumer of disk drives, I am > in the business of selling them, and my company is in the highly reliability > market segment, so these are risk and assesments I must make, have made, > and stand by. Yes, and atleast you care about your reputation unlike some companies that will just sell you anything as long as they are making money. > The other drive vendor I do use is Fujitsu, and other than the Super Eagle, > they have done them selves very little harm with lemon drives going to mass > market (I was involved in a lot of alpha drive testing, and I know of a few > that never saw a manufacturing pilot run :-)). Hmm, but I thought Fujitsu isn't really that good of a drive in terms of noise level... > And on one final note, the cost of a field failure is one thing for an > end user, for me as a reseller that cost can be very high, not so much > in shipping/RMA time/extra replacement stock/etc, but cost in loss of > future sales. yeah, exactly so that's why all your parts has to be top notched in performance which it is =) Cheers, -Vince- vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering - UC Berkeley Fall '95 SysAdmin bigbang.HIP.Berkeley.EDU - Running FreeBSD, Real UN*X for Free! Chabot Observatory & Science Center From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 13:31:27 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA21579 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:31:27 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21567 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:31:25 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA27717; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:30:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA02285; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:32:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199508182032.NAA02285@corbin.Root.COM> To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Brian Gottlieb , hardware@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aha2490W? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Aug 95 13:22:47 PDT." <199508182022.NAA20600@freefall.FreeBSD.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:32:03 -0700 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Two race conditions and many performance enhancements. I think that >the -current code (other than some improvements in the error detection/ >recovery code) will not change much in the future, and so far has >proved to be rock solid. I plan to bring these improvements into -stable soon. I waiting on the outcome of tests with wcarchive (which has 3 AHA2940 controllers). Things right now look very good. -DG From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 13:34:54 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA22019 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:34:54 -0700 Received: from lccma.bos.locus.com (lccma.bos.locus.com [192.80.81.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA22001 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:34:49 -0700 Received: from orchard.la.locus.com by lccma.bos.locus.com with SMTP (PP) id <01887-0@lccma.bos.locus.com>; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:32:17 +0000 Received: from janus.la.locus.com by orchard.la.locus.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA14277; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:30:58 -0700 Received: by janus.la.locus.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA33442; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:34:22 -0700 From: fmayhar@locus.com (Frank Mayhar) Message-Id: <9508182034.AA33442@janus.la.locus.com> Subject: Re: aha2490W? To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: brian@arl.wustl.edu, smace@crash.ops.neosoft.com, hardware@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: fmayhar@orchard.la.locus.com In-Reply-To: <199508182022.NAA20600@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 18, 95 01:22:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1002 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Two race conditions and many performance enhancements. I think that > the -current code (other than some improvements in the error detection/ > recovery code) will not change much in the future, and so far has > proved to be rock solid. Will things like this make it to -stable, and thence to 2.1-RELEASE (whenever that is)? And as long as I have your attention, are there, anywhere, any kernel debugging hints for FreeBSD? For example, tricks to examining data structures via DDB or in a crash dump, or how to identify the process that crashed, or how to get a stack trace for another process, or things of that nature? I'm going to put my head to tracking down these crashes that have been keeping me from being able to run News, and any help anyone can give me, or pointers in the right direction, would be very much appreciated. Thanks. -- Frank Mayhar fmayhar@locus.com Locus Computing Corporation 9800 La Cienega Blvd., Inglewood, CA 90301 (310) 337-5007 From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 13:48:21 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA23015 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:48:21 -0700 Received: from beru.wustl.edu (beru.wustl.edu [128.252.157.65]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA23001 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:48:18 -0700 Received: by beru.wustl.edu (4.1/ECL-A1.21) id AA02496; Fri, 18 Aug 95 15:47:32 CDT Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 15:47:32 CDT Message-Id: <9508182047.AA02496@beru.wustl.edu> From: Brian Gottlieb To: davidg@Root.COM Cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , hardware@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aha2490W? In-Reply-To: <199508182032.NAA02285@corbin.Root.COM> References: <199508182022.NAA20600@freefall.FreeBSD.org> <199508182032.NAA02285@corbin.Root.COM> Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hmm..I just sent mail to Justin Gibbs, but since the thread is continuing, I'll ask publicly... David Greenman (David) writes: >> Two race conditions and many performance enhancements. I think that >> the -current code (other than some improvements in the error detection/ >> recovery code) will not change much in the future, and so far has >> proved to be rock solid. David> I plan to bring these improvements into -stable soon. I David> waiting on the outcome of tests with wcarchive (which has 3 David> AHA2940 controllers). Things right now look very good. Under 2.0.5 I am having writing large files to my Zip Drive hung on my 2940. Short transfers work fine, but if I try to copy a large file, the SCSI bus hangs after a little while, then eventually the machine freezes (when it tries to swap something back in, I suppose). I haven't had time to look at the problem in depth, but I have the error messages that were displayed on the console written down somewhere (I'll look for them when I get home). I think it was a device timeout or something. I'd like to try out the new driver to see if these improvements solve my problem. Will the -current driver drop nicely into 2.0.5R, or will I need to re-install the whole system from scratch? brian From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 14:19:44 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA24560 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 14:19:44 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA24552 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 14:19:38 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA27717; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 14:18:38 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508182118.OAA27717@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: i82424ZX vs i82424TX cache dram controller To: pete@sms.fi (Petri Helenius) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 14:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508181503.SAA29469@silver.sms.fi> from "Petri Helenius" at Aug 18, 95 06:03:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1111 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > > > > still no rev message--from looking at source that seems to be in > > > -current and 2.0.5R but not in 2.0R > > > > Oopss.. your running old code :-(... > > What one should enable to get the verbose probe in 2.2-CURRENT? I get only: boot with the -v flag. > chip0 rev 1 on pci0:0 > chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7 > > ...and I'm wondering whether there is any parity checking on the chipset. Intel Triton does NOT have parity checking logic in the memory controller circuits. There is not parity checking in the chip set. > (I've been told that it's unlikely) You've now been told it does not, plain and simple. [I would have done this a long time ago, but NDA's are nasty things, Intel made this public information 3 weeks ago with the release of the Triton data sheets to the public, then formally stated it just recently (week or so) in a press release. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 15:08:53 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA26923 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:08:53 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA26904 ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:08:47 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA27848; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:07:49 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508182207.PAA27848@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: aha2490W? To: smace@crash.ops.neosoft.com (Scott Mace) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508181927.OAA10105@crash.ops.neosoft.com> from "Scott Mace" at Aug 18, 95 02:27:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 239 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Is the aha-2940W supported? is anyone using it? Yes, Yes. You want one? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 18 15:17:19 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA27404 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:17:19 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27395 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:17:16 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA27879; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:15:53 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508182215.PAA27879@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine To: vince@penzance.econ.yale.edu (-Vince-) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 15:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "-Vince-" at Aug 18, 95 03:56:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2252 Sender: hardware-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Mon, 14 Aug 1995, Michael Smith wrote: > > > -Vince- stands accused of saying: > > >> Micropolis has one of the best track records in the industry for the > > >> reliability of thier drives. They were the only vendor for a long time > > >> to pass Auspex's reliability requirements. > > > > > > Hmmmm, okay but I thought Micropolis wasn't that big of a player > > > in the market. Isn't Seagates reliable since they are using the > > > technology they bought from CDC/Imprimus many years ago atleast on their > > > WREN and Elite Drives... > > > > Seagate make/have made some of the very best, and some of the very worst > > disks on the market. As Rod observed, their Hawk and Hawk-II drives > > have proven themselves to be very good units. The Barracuda family are > > actually reasonably old technology, and weighted their design tradeoffs > > very heavily in favour of performance. As a consequence, they have > > (possibly) excessive heat dissipation and noise characteristics, but > > when they came out, there was nothing that could touch them for speed. > > Hmmm okay but what drives can touch the barracuda's in terms of > speed? A hand full or two, basically any 7200RPM drive on the market is in this ``class'' of drives. I am selling Quantum, Quantum/DEC, Micropolis, and Fujitsi drives that can all compete with the barracuda. The barracuda was just first to market with this level of performance (and when you ship product that dies being first to market can be quite bad for you, as it was for Seagate this time). > > Micropolis have been around for a _long_ time; anyone remember the DEC RD53? > > Whilst that wasn't a particularly good disk, they have a really solid > > reputation, and (here at least) they offer a 5-year warranty on most of > > their disks. > > That's true but like it seems like wasn't CDC one of the drives that > was like a industry standard? CDC was one of the former premier drive manufactures when they were in business, yes. But I will say that this went to hell in a hand basket once segate took over the operation. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD