From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Dec 3 09:53:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA13088 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:53:45 -0800 Received: from aebeard.technion.ac.il (root@[132.68.146.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA13063 ; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:53:32 -0800 Received: (from yuri@localhost) by aebeard.technion.ac.il (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA00214; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 19:53:24 +0200 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 19:53:24 +0200 (IST) From: Yuri Gindin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: routing problems with ppp. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello All, I have some problems connecting two computers with ppp. One computer is connected to the ethernet line and has a modem. I want to route traffic through this one. I connect from the second computer using iij-ppp and everything goes fine, i.e. when I start ppp -direct on the first computer or pppd I can connect to it but traceroute stops on it and doesn't go furhter. The routing tables on both computers seem to be OK. The first computer: Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 132.68.146.254 UGSc 4 6 le0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 1 0 lo0 132.68.146 link#2 UC 0 0 132.68.146.67 127.0.0.1 UGHS 0 0 lo0 132.68.146.152 132.68.146.67 UH 2 822 ppp0 132.68.146.254 0:0:c:1:96:16 UHLW 4 0 le0 767 and netstat -in gives: Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll lp0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 le0 1500 08.00.2b.3f.cb.a5 3834 0 40 0 0 le0 1500 132.68.146 132.68.146.67 3834 0 40 0 0 lo0 16384 0 0 0 0 0 lo0 16384 127 127.0.0.1 0 0 0 0 0 ppp0 1500 1091 0 877 0 0 ppp0 1500 132.68.146 132.68.146.67 1091 0 877 0 0 sl0* 552 0 0 0 0 0 tun0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 On the second computer (client): Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 132.68.146.67 UGc 1 4 tun0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 1 0 lo0 132.68.146.67 132.68.146.152 UH 4 1140 tun0 132.68.146.152 127.0.0.1 UGHS 0 0 lo0 and Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll lp0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 lo0 16384 0 0 0 0 0 lo0 16384 127 127.0.0.1 0 0 0 0 0 ppp0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 sl0* 552 0 0 0 0 0 tun0 1500 1019 0 1299 0 0 tun0 1500 132.68 132.68.146.152 1019 0 1299 0 0 I have compiled the kernel on the first (server) computer with optinons GATEWAY and use: sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 in /etc/netstart. Any suggestions, Any help will be highly appreciated. --Yuri. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Dec 4 14:14:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA05259 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:14:19 -0800 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA05251 ; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:14:03 -0800 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30753-2>; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:16:24 -0000 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:16:22 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Yuri Gindin cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: routing problems with ppp. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Yuri Gindin wrote: > Hello All, > > I have some problems connecting two computers with ppp. > One computer is connected to the ethernet line and has > a modem. I want to route traffic through this one. > I connect from the second computer using iij-ppp > and everything goes fine, i.e. when I start ppp -direct > on the first computer or pppd I can connect to it > but traceroute stops on it and doesn't go furhter. > The routing tables on both computers seem to be OK. From looking at the routing tables, it appears that both systems have an IP address out of the same network block. So all systems on the ethernet think the system at the end of the ppp link is locally connected, but it's not. You need to use "arp" to manually publish an entry for the system connected via ppp, so it appears on the ethernet. Tom > The first computer: > Internet: > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire > default 132.68.146.254 UGSc 4 6 le0 > 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 1 0 lo0 > 132.68.146 link#2 UC 0 0 > 132.68.146.67 127.0.0.1 UGHS 0 0 lo0 > 132.68.146.152 132.68.146.67 UH 2 822 ppp0 > 132.68.146.254 0:0:c:1:96:16 UHLW 4 0 le0 767 > and netstat -in gives: > Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll > lp0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 > le0 1500 08.00.2b.3f.cb.a5 3834 0 40 0 0 > le0 1500 132.68.146 132.68.146.67 3834 0 40 0 0 > lo0 16384 0 0 0 0 0 > lo0 16384 127 127.0.0.1 0 0 0 0 0 > ppp0 1500 1091 0 877 0 0 > ppp0 1500 132.68.146 132.68.146.67 1091 0 877 0 0 > sl0* 552 0 0 0 0 0 > tun0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 > > On the second computer (client): > Internet: > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire > default 132.68.146.67 UGc 1 4 tun0 > 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 1 0 lo0 > 132.68.146.67 132.68.146.152 UH 4 1140 tun0 > 132.68.146.152 127.0.0.1 UGHS 0 0 lo0 > > and > > Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll > lp0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 > lo0 16384 0 0 0 0 0 > lo0 16384 127 127.0.0.1 0 0 0 0 0 > ppp0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 > sl0* 552 0 0 0 0 0 > tun0 1500 1019 0 1299 0 0 > tun0 1500 132.68 132.68.146.152 1019 0 1299 0 0 > > I have compiled the kernel on the first (server) computer with > optinons GATEWAY > and use: > sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 > in /etc/netstart. > > Any suggestions, > Any help will be highly appreciated. > > --Yuri. > From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Dec 4 20:04:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA04521 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:04:30 -0800 Received: from iag.net (seminole.iag.net [204.27.210.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA04516 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:04:27 -0800 Received: by iag.net (Smail3.1.29.1 #9) id m0tMocD-0004QpC; Mon, 4 Dec 95 23:04 EST Message-Id: To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:04:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Mike Gogulski" X-Kibo-Spews: La... X-Day: Sun Jul 5 07:00:00 EST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 39 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk subscribe freebsd-isp syadasti@iag.net From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Dec 5 23:38:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20568 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20536 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:37:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from albion.loach.org (root@loach.org [199.233.190.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id WAA27501 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:36:00 -0800 Received: (from alexei@localhost) by albion.loach.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA23921 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:26:30 GMT From: Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov Message-Id: <199512052226.WAA23921@albion.loach.org> Subject: Please help! To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:26:17 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'd be perpetually indebted if one of the providers out there who use virtual hosts, to multi-home web server pages, would be so deeply kind as to provide me with a sample of the ifconfigging required to set up the aliased addresses, or a pointer to the documentation available on doing so; I've searched, and banged my head against walls for the past two days, and I'm at the end of my rope, and would -gladly- return the favor of help; I'm an nntp guru, and have something resembling mastery of INN's tricky whiles. Thanks, Alexei From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Dec 6 08:53:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA29577 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29570 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:53:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA08482; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:52:42 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512061652.KAA08482@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Please help! To: alexei@loach.org (Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:52:41 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512052226.WAA23921@albion.loach.org> from "Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov" at Dec 5, 95 10:26:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'd be perpetually indebted if one of the providers out there who use virtual > hosts, to multi-home web server pages, would be so deeply kind as to provide > me with a sample of the ifconfigging required to set up the aliased addresses, > or a pointer to the documentation available on doing so; I've searched, and > banged my head against walls for the past two days, and I'm at the end of > my rope, and would -gladly- return the favor of help; I'm an nntp guru, and > have something resembling mastery of INN's tricky whiles. I use Apache.... it makes life somewhat easier tazenda.sol.net# head /etc/start_if.ed0 #! /bin/sh - /sbin/ifconfig ed0 206.55.64.254 netmask 0xffffff80 /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.130 netmask 0xffffffff /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.131 netmask 0xffffffff /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.132 netmask 0xffffffff /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.133 netmask 0xffffffff /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.134 netmask 0xffffffff /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.135 netmask 0xffffffff /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.136 netmask 0xffffffff /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.137 netmask 0xffffffff tazenda.sol.net# view /usr/local/www/server/conf/httpd.conf [..... all sorts of stuff .....] MaxRequestsPerChild 30 # VirtualHost: Allows the daemon to respond to requests for more than one # server address, if your server machine is configured to accept IP packets # for multiple addresses. This can be accomplished with the ifconfig # alias flag, or through kernel patches like VIF. # Any httpd.conf or srm.conf directive may go into a VirtualHost command. # See alto the BindAddress entry. ServerAdmin webmaster@www.sol.net DocumentRoot /usr/local/www/docs/www.sol.net ServerName www.sol.net ErrorLog logs/www.sol.net-error_log TransferLog logs/www.sol.net-access_log ServerAdmin webmaster@www.gmttech.ods.net DocumentRoot /usr/local/www/docs/www.gmttech.ods.net ServerName www.gmttech.ods.net ErrorLog logs/www.gmttech.ods.net-error_log TransferLog logs/www.gmttech.ods.net-access_log ServerAdmin webmaster@klements.ods.net DocumentRoot /usr/local/www/docs/klements.ods.net ServerName klements.ods.net ErrorLog logs/klements.ods.net-error_log TransferLog logs/klements.ods.net-access_log Note that DNS maps the virtual host name to a physical address or alias. Hopefully this will be enough to get you on the right track. "Works for me." Thank you for offering news help but I run some damn big news systems... however there is someone who was asking for help the other day and I would encourage you to return the favor by writing Joel Kelmenson and helping out in whatever way you are able. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Dec 6 09:25:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03123 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.vividnet.com (mail.vividnet.com [206.149.144.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03113 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from aries.vividnet.com (postmaster@mail.vividnet.com) by mail.vividnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA21268; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:24:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:25:35 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Wang To: Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help! In-Reply-To: <199512052226.WAA23921@albion.loach.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov wrote: > I'd be perpetually indebted if one of the providers out there who use virtual > hosts, to multi-home web server pages, would be so deeply kind as to provide > me with a sample of the ifconfigging required to set up the aliased addresses, > or a pointer to the documentation available on doing so; I've searched, and > banged my head against walls for the past two days, and I'm at the end of > my rope, and would -gladly- return the favor of help; I'm an nntp guru, and > have something resembling mastery of INN's tricky whiles. > > Thanks, > > Alexei Well, I received this ifconfig line off this list (Thanks to whoever for posting it). This is my config line, yours may differ a bit (i.e. ep0). * in rc.local --cut-- # Virtual Domain IP Aliasing echo 'aliasing INTRINSICSYSTEM.COM' ifconfig ep0 alias www.intrinsicsystem.com netmask 255.255.255.0 up --cut-- Sincerely, Brian From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Dec 6 10:27:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA07837 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from horse.supranet.net (root@horse.supranet.net [205.164.160.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07832 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.164.160.66] (tty00-66.supranet.com [205.164.160.66]) by horse.supranet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA09856; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:31:21 -0600 X-Sender: mjg@mail.supranet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:27:25 -0600 To: Brian Wang From: mglowacki@supranet.com (Michael Glowacki) Subject: Re: Please help! Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 10:25 AM 12/6/95, Brian Wang wrote: >On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov wrote: > >> if one of the providers out there who use virtual >> hosts, to multi-home web server pages, would be so deeply kind as to provide >> me with a sample of the ifconfigging required to set up the aliased >>addresses, > > >This is my config line, yours may differ a bit (i.e. ep0). > >* in rc.local > >--cut-- ># Virtual Domain IP Aliasing >echo 'aliasing INTRINSICSYSTEM.COM' >ifconfig ep0 alias www.intrinsicsystem.com netmask 255.255.255.0 up >--cut-- > > >Brian It helps to add the localhost route as well: route add 205.164.XXX.XXX 127.1 This speeds up local accesses. -- Michael Glowacki mglowacki@supranet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 02:17:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA00240 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 02:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.net.hk (john@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00234 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 02:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by gateway.net.hk (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA13329; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:15:31 +0800 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:15:30 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: FreeBSD hackers cc: FreeBSD ISP Group Subject: newsserver configuration Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk A client is about to set up a news server for an ISP and proposes the following: 1. Intel triton P5 mother board w/256k cache built in IDE & I/O port 2. Intel P5 100Mhz CPU 3. 2 x 16MB 72 pin RAM 70ns 4. Panasonic 1,44MB floppy 5. Panasonic 4.4x IDE Bus CD-Rom 6. PCI Promotion 6410 SVGA card w/ 1MB RAM 7. Adaptec 2940 PCI SCSI-2 controller 7a. 2 x Seagate ST15230N 4GB Fast SCCI-2 HD 8. NE2000 compatible LAN card ?? 9. HP 4000-I external SCCI DAT 4mm tape or 10. Wangdat 3200 internal DAT 4mm We want to run FreeBSD 2.1.0 and just do news on the LAN. Is the Intel mother board compatible and reliable? are there drivers for all the hardware? Is it worth getting a better ethernet card? Any suggestions or comments? jbeukema From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 02:31:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA00759 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 02:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00736 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 02:31:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id CAA05264; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 02:31:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA27011; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 02:32:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199512071032.CAA27011@corbin.Root.COM> To: John Beukema cc: FreeBSD hackers , FreeBSD ISP Group Subject: Re: newsserver configuration In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Dec 95 18:15:30 +0800." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 02:32:03 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >A client is about to set up a news server for an ISP and proposes the >following: > > >1. Intel triton P5 mother board w/256k cache built in IDE & I/O port >2. Intel P5 100Mhz CPU >3. 2 x 16MB 72 pin RAM 70ns The 100Mhz motherboard is supposed to have 60ns SIMMs...but it might work anyway, however. >8. NE2000 compatible LAN card ?? Get an SMC 8432 (EtherPower PCI)...it's much faster and lower overhead. >Is the Intel mother board compatible and reliable? Yes. >are there drivers for all the hardware? Yes. >Is it worth getting a better ethernet card? Yes. -DG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 03:32:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA03932 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 03:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from tsunami.jurai.net (tsunami.jurai.net [205.218.122.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA03927 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 03:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by tsunami.jurai.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA27692; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 05:32:17 -0600 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 05:32:17 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: John Beukema cc: FreeBSD ISP Group Subject: Re: newsserver configuration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, John Beukema wrote: > 1. Intel triton P5 mother board w/256k cache built in IDE & I/O port > 2. Intel P5 100Mhz CPU > 3. 2 x 16MB 72 pin RAM 70ns Only 32 meg of ram? Doing expires is gonna thrash the disk a bit... > 4. Panasonic 1,44MB floppy > 5. Panasonic 4.4x IDE Bus CD-Rom *shrug* I pulled the floppy and the cdrom (plextor 4x if anyone cares) from the news server when I needed them elsewhere (don't ask why they thought our news server needed a cd-rom drive...) > 6. PCI Promotion 6410 SVGA card w/ 1MB RAM I think a 256k trident clone would work better as it encourages people not to run X on the machine. > 7. Adaptec 2940 PCI SCSI-2 controller This or an NCR 810 based card. (I'm using Buslogic Bt945c cards which work, but I wouldn't reccomend them based on what Rod Grimes tells me) > 7a. 2 x Seagate ST15230N 4GB Fast SCCI-2 HD We use 3 4gig Quantum Grand Prix drives (XP34301) for our news spool. The work VERY VERY well as long as you cool them. (Just got done hacking up the cases to put fans on them and the drives are cool to the touch right now :) > 8. NE2000 compatible LAN card ?? Get a DEC dc21040 based card. > 9. HP 4000-I external SCCI DAT 4mm tape or > 10. Wangdat 3200 internal DAT 4mm I'm using an HP C1533A 9406 DDS2 drive. A friend is using the Connor DDS2 drive... Don't know about the Wangdat... > We want to run FreeBSD 2.1.0 and just do news on the LAN. > Is the Intel mother board compatible and reliable? Dunno. Go with Asus. > are there drivers for all the hardware? Get a scsi cdrom drive if you have to have one. If you can get 2 scsi controllers and run no more than 3 drives per that would work well too. (If you are running 7200 rpm fast drives) > Is it worth getting a better ethernet card? DC21040. (Compex, Kingston, SMC and a few others... I got some from Rod Grimes and they work great. If you feel like droping the $200 per for the DEC ones, then you can do that, but the cheap ones do the same thing... > Any suggestions or comments? FreeBSD works well for news servers... We just downed our machine that is running 2.0.5-950622-SNAP. It had been running for 87 days... (This isn't very impressive, but for the fact that we had so many hardware problems with it initially.) | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 03:41:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA04367 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 03:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA04362 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 03:41:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA02801; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:40:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: John Beukema cc: FreeBSD hackers , FreeBSD ISP Group Subject: Re: newsserver configuration In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Dec 1995 18:15:30 +0800." Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 12:40:21 +0100 Message-ID: <2799.818336421@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > A client is about to set up a news server for an ISP and proposes the > following: > > > 1. Intel triton P5 mother board w/256k cache built in IDE & I/O port use asus. > 5. Panasonic 4.4x IDE Bus CD-Rom use scsi cdrom -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 04:26:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA06754 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 04:26:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA06749 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 04:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id GAA10255; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:25:07 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512071225.GAA10255@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: newsserver configuration To: john@gateway.net.hk (John Beukema) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:25:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Beukema" at Dec 7, 95 06:15:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A client is about to set up a news server for an ISP and proposes the > following: > > 1. Intel triton P5 mother board w/256k cache built in IDE & I/O port > 2. Intel P5 100Mhz CPU fine > 3. 2 x 16MB 72 pin RAM 70ns a little low on memory, probably, and slow memory at that. You may find that your expires/etc take too long because you are tight on memory. news.sol.net suffered from this so I compromised at 48MB for what is primarily a transport news server... anyways, if you find yourself wishing you had more memory and can't afford it, go read the recent T.W. Wells flamefest on news.software.nntp about memory tweaks for INN (you can trade a lower memory profile for more disk accesses). > 4. Panasonic 1,44MB floppy > 5. Panasonic 4.4x IDE Bus CD-Rom ewwwwwwwwwww. :-) > 6. PCI Promotion 6410 SVGA card w/ 1MB RAM > 7. Adaptec 2940 PCI SCSI-2 controller good choice. the 3940 works like a dream as well. > 7a. 2 x Seagate ST15230N 4GB Fast SCCI-2 HD depending on how large your ISP happens to be, this may be "rather tight" or "extremely tight". > 8. NE2000 compatible LAN card ?? booo, hiss, boo. there're some decent, cheap, supported PCI cards. Although I myself am guilty of running a WD *8003* on daily-planet.execpc.com for several months (big machine, generally more than a hundred nnrp clients, etc). > 9. HP 4000-I external SCCI DAT 4mm tape or > 10. Wangdat 3200 internal DAT 4mm > > We want to run FreeBSD 2.1.0 and just do news on the LAN. sounds like a plan. > Is the Intel mother board compatible and reliable? > are there drivers for all the hardware? > Is it worth getting a better ethernet card? > Any suggestions or comments? Umm. At 32MB RAM, you won't have a lot of room to spare for nnrpd's. If this is a Ma & Pa ISP you may be fine. If not, you will want more RAM!! Also, with so little disk and so few spindles, the concurrency needed to support a lot of activity on the system just isn't there. I typically recommend a MINIMAL setup: 1 disk operating system/swap (1G?) 1 disk newslib (usr/local) (500M-1G) 1 disk var + var/spool (500M-1G) 1 disk news overview database (15% of news spool capacity, i.e. for an 8GB total spool, 1.2GB NOV DB) 1 disk news spool root 1 disk news spool alt 1 disk news spool alt.binaries iffff you want to be serious about binaries. All disks should be "reasonably fast". I _always_ spec out news spool and news overview disks as 8ms disks, Barracuda class. It may not be so bad to have 9ms or even 10ms drives for some of the other disks, particularly in a RAM-rich system. This configuration at least separates out all the potential hotspots. News Rule 1: You would rather have LOTS of slightly slower, smaller disks than a few large, fast drives. This fact has been lost on so many people. If I had a nickel for every time I've told somebody this and they've ignored me, I could be Bill Gates. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 05:08:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA10316 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 05:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA10309 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 05:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id FAA19026; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 05:06:46 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199512071306.FAA19026@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: newsserver configuration To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 05:06:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: john@gateway.net.hk, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199512071225.GAA10255@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Dec 7, 95 06:25:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I typically recommend a MINIMAL setup: > > 1 disk operating system/swap (1G?) > 1 disk newslib (usr/local) (500M-1G) > 1 disk var + var/spool (500M-1G) > 1 disk news overview database (15% of news spool capacity, i.e. for an 8GB > total spool, 1.2GB NOV DB) > 1 disk news spool root > 1 disk news spool alt > 1 disk news spool alt.binaries iffff you want to be serious about binaries. > generally more spindles for the same diskspace is faster.. but with bot few big drives or many middle-size ones.. think about HEAT dissipation.. get as much air flowing around the disks as you can.. don't go just shoving them all in a single PC tower cabinet.. remember, you want cool air coming into the cabinet just near the drives and warm air being exhasted somewhere else.. be prepaired to do your own baffling inside the box.. separate boxes isn't a bd idea but just be aware that some big drives get VERY hot and is shortens their life if you don't cool them (to about 3 months).. julian From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 06:06:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13873 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA13866 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:06:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA10422; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:04:56 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512071404.IAA10422@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: newsserver configuration To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:04:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: john@gateway.net.hk, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199512071306.FAA19026@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Dec 7, 95 05:06:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I typically recommend a MINIMAL setup: > > > > 1 disk operating system/swap (1G?) > > 1 disk newslib (usr/local) (500M-1G) > > 1 disk var + var/spool (500M-1G) > > 1 disk news overview database (15% of news spool capacity, i.e. for an 8GB > > total spool, 1.2GB NOV DB) > > 1 disk news spool root > > 1 disk news spool alt > > 1 disk news spool alt.binaries iffff you want to be serious about binaries. > > generally more spindles for the same diskspace is faster.. > > but with bot few big drives > or many middle-size ones.. think about HEAT dissipation.. didn't we just recently have a big debate over this very topic? :-) :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 07:12:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19734 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 07:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.igs.net (rene@host.igs.net [198.53.155.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19725 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 07:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rene@localhost) by host.igs.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA22911; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:12:45 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:12:44 -0500 (EST) From: Rene Kahle To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Difficulties with PPP (FreeBSD 2.0.5) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to configure a FreeBSD 2.0.5 machine as an Internet server, and I am having a few problems with PPP. I'm using pppd rather than iijppp. My first question is... Which ppp are others using? (You may want to respond to me directly at rene@igs.net.) The main problem I am having is that pppd does not exit when the line is dropped. I have tried two different brands of modems (14.4 and 28.8), the regular getty and mgetty, our Cyclades board and the standard serial port; nothing seems to make any difference. I have &C1 (detect carrier) set in the modem, and I am using the proxyarp, modem, -detach, and crtscts options. Thank you for any help provided. Rene Kahle System Administrator Information Gateway Services (613) 592-5619 Fax (613) 592-3556 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 08:27:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA25407 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25385 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.1/8.7.1) id LAA03014; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:27:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:27:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: John Beukema , FreeBSD hackers , FreeBSD ISP Group Subject: Re: newsserver configuration In-Reply-To: <2799.818336421@critter.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > A client is about to set up a news server for an ISP and proposes the > > following: > > > > > > 1. Intel triton P5 mother board w/256k cache built in IDE & I/O port > use asus. > Have to agree...I've used both, and the ASUS was more plug-n-play then its Intel counter-part...I was trying to play with Buslogic PCI SCSI controllers at the time, and, with the Intel, I had to actually fight with the cards, whereas with the ASUS, I plugged them in a booted... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 09:56:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03325 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (news@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA03313 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (sendmail) id BAA08340 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 01:56:31 +0800 (WST) Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: 8 Dec 1995 01:56:26 +0800 From: peter@haywire.dialix.com (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <4a79sa$84f$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: , <199512071225.GAA10255@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: newsserver configuration Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) writes: [...] >News Rule 1: You would rather have LOTS of slightly slower, smaller disks >than a few large, fast drives. This fact has been lost on so many people. >If I had a nickel for every time I've told somebody this and they've ignored >me, I could be Bill Gates. Heh. And I get a good giggle when you post your pretty damn good news throughput stats on the news admin newsgroups when people are having bottleneck problems on their "super fast, high performance servers", and their jaws drop and they ask you what you're running... :-) It's especially interesting after there's been a long argument on how important it is to have a "big, mega fast disk" (hoho). And here comes Joe, on his "lowly" pentium FreeBSD box with run-of-the-mill disks showing impressive numbers beating the $30,000 hardware.. :-) Bang! shoots their argument to bits.. :-) (Well, maybe my memory of the most recent "go round" is a little exaggerated, but you get the idea.. :-) -Peter >... Joe >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net >Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 11:47:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11833 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.ftcnet.com (admin@alpha.ftcnet.com [204.174.119.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11811 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from admin@localhost) by alpha.ftcnet.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA11611; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:43:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:43:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bernard Klatt To: John Beukema cc: FreeBSD hackers , FreeBSD ISP Group Subject: Re: newsserver configuration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, John Beukema wrote: > A client is about to set up a news server for an ISP and proposes the > following: > > 1. Intel triton P5 mother board w/256k cache built in IDE & I/O port > 2. Intel P5 100Mhz CPU > 3. 2 x 16MB 72 pin RAM 70ns 32 MB is not really enough to do efficient expires for a 'full' feed. 80 - 100 MB RAM is preferred. > 4. Panasonic 1,44MB floppy > 5. Panasonic 4.4x IDE Bus CD-Rom > 6. PCI Promotion 6410 SVGA card w/ 1MB RAM > 7. Adaptec 2940 PCI SCSI-2 controller > 7a. 2 x Seagate ST15230N 4GB Fast SCCI-2 HD Good idea, more spindles are better. You might even want to go with four 2 GB drives for better performance. Split the news heirarchies proportionaly accross the drives. > 8. NE2000 compatible LAN card ?? I use 3Com 3C509's since they have a faster driver. > 9. HP 4000-I external SCCI DAT 4mm tape or > 10. Wangdat 3200 internal DAT 4mm > > We want to run FreeBSD 2.1.0 and just do news on the LAN. > > Is the Intel mother board compatible and reliable? > are there drivers for all the hardware? > Is it worth getting a better ethernet card? > Any suggestions or comments? > > jbeukema Bernard Klatt Owner Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. www.ftcnet.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 13:14:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA22204 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA22137 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA01725 ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:13:34 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id WAA13444 ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:13:34 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.2/keltia-uucp-2.7) id UAA06387; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:11:52 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199512071911.UAA06387@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: newsserver configuration To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:11:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: john@gateway.net.hk, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199512071225.GAA10255@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Dec 7, 95 06:25:06 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1404 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Joe Greco said: > I typically recommend a MINIMAL setup: > > 1 disk operating system/swap (1G?) > 1 disk newslib (usr/local) (500M-1G) > 1 disk var + var/spool (500M-1G) > 1 disk news overview database (15% of news spool capacity, i.e. for an 8GB > total spool, 1.2GB NOV DB) > 1 disk news spool root > 1 disk news spool alt > 1 disk news spool alt.binaries iffff you want to be serious about binaries. And I would buy two NCR cards instead of one Adaptec and divide the load on the two controllers. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Dec 3 14:34:17 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 15:11:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA01347 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from venus.dnai.com (venus.dnai.com [140.174.162.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01335 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:10:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dror@localhost) by venus.dnai.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA15877; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:22:10 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:22:10 -0800 (PST) From: Dror Matalon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Multiple virtual domains (was Re: Please help!) In-Reply-To: <199512061652.KAA08482@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This works, but it's ugly for a couple of reasons. 1. Your ethernet card is listening and sending arps for all these addresses. This is no big deal with 5-10 aliases. What do you do when you have 500? 2. Since these are all real address on your network you can only use 250 or so of these. What do you do if you need more? The solution we're looking at involves vif Virtual IF. It creates an if interface that doesn't really point to an Ethernet Card but instead knows that all packets coming to that interface are for the local machine. A more detailed description is in http://www.apache.org/docs/vif.info. It includes source code to integrate this into Suns. The big question is, has anyone ported this to freebsd? On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > tazenda.sol.net# head /etc/start_if.ed0 > #! /bin/sh - > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 206.55.64.254 netmask 0xffffff80 > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.130 netmask 0xffffffff > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.131 netmask 0xffffffff > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.132 netmask 0xffffffff > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.133 netmask 0xffffffff > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.134 netmask 0xffffffff > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.135 netmask 0xffffffff > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.136 netmask 0xffffffff > /sbin/ifconfig ed0 alias 206.55.64.137 netmask 0xffffffff > tazenda.sol.net# view /usr/local/www/server/conf/httpd.conf > [..... all sorts of stuff .....] > MaxRequestsPerChild 30 > > # VirtualHost: Allows the daemon to respond to requests for more than one > # server address, if your server machine is configured to accept IP packets > # for multiple addresses. This can be accomplished with the ifconfig > # alias flag, or through kernel patches like VIF. > > # Any httpd.conf or srm.conf directive may go into a VirtualHost command. > # See alto the BindAddress entry. > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@www.sol.net > DocumentRoot /usr/local/www/docs/www.sol.net > ServerName www.sol.net > ErrorLog logs/www.sol.net-error_log > TransferLog logs/www.sol.net-access_log > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@www.gmttech.ods.net > DocumentRoot /usr/local/www/docs/www.gmttech.ods.net > ServerName www.gmttech.ods.net > ErrorLog logs/www.gmttech.ods.net-error_log > TransferLog logs/www.gmttech.ods.net-access_log > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@klements.ods.net > DocumentRoot /usr/local/www/docs/klements.ods.net > ServerName klements.ods.net > ErrorLog logs/klements.ods.net-error_log > TransferLog logs/klements.ods.net-access_log > > > Note that DNS maps the virtual host name to a physical address or alias. > > Hopefully this will be enough to get you on the right track. "Works for > me." Dror Dror Matalon Voice: 510 649-6110 Direct Network Access Fax: 510 649-7130 2039 Shattuck Avenue Modem: 510 649-6116 Berkeley, CA 94704 Email: dror@dnai.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 17:39:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA12654 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12646 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id TAA11641; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:37:56 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512080137.TAA11641@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: newsserver configuration To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:37:56 -0600 (CST) Cc: john@gateway.net.hk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512071911.UAA06387@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Dec 7, 95 08:11:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > It seems that Joe Greco said: > > I typically recommend a MINIMAL setup: > > And I would buy two NCR cards instead of one Adaptec and divide the load on > the two controllers. Well of course, but the spool disks are far more of an issue, as is the RAM.. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 19:21:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA20361 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:21:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA20356 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id VAA11988; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 21:19:52 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512080319.VAA11988@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multiple virtual domains (was Re: Please help!) To: dror@dnai.com (Dror Matalon) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 21:19:51 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Dror Matalon" at Dec 7, 95 03:22:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This works, but it's ugly for a couple of reasons. > 1. Your ethernet card is listening and sending arps for all these > addresses. This is no big deal with 5-10 aliases. What do you > do when you have 500? you tell your router to route an appropriately sized subnet there. > 2. Since these are all real address on your network you can only use 250 > or so of these. What do you do if you need more? use a bigger netmask? multiple subnets? or build a better http protocol that doesn't require such silliness. > The solution we're looking at involves vif Virtual IF. It creates > an if interface that doesn't really point to an Ethernet Card but > instead knows that all packets coming to that interface are for > the local machine. A more detailed description is in > http://www.apache.org/docs/vif.info. It includes source code to > integrate this into Suns. > > The big question is, has anyone ported this to freebsd? why would you want to? :-) let's say you have a wire, "206.55.64.64", netmask 0xffffffc0, so you have the effective address range 65-126 available. You configure your Web server: ifconfig ed0 206.55.64.67 netmask 0xffffffc0 so it is visible on that net. now you tell your router to route "206.55.64.128 netmask 0xffffff80" at 206.55.64.67. now, just create a dummy tun device (etc) on the server, and ifconfig and alias it to death. same thing as you are proposing, but without deadbeat does-nothing-useful code eating up kernel space. :-) you just virtualize an unused real interface. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 7 19:59:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA22587 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:59:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA22582 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30752-5>; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:01:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:01:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Dror Matalon cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Multiple virtual domains (was Re: Please help!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Dror Matalon wrote: > 2. Since these are all real address on your network you can only use 250 > or so of these. What do you do if you need more? Just use more. No problem with using additional netblocks. Tom From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 8 06:50:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA08854 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 06:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.dsu.edu (ghelmer@alpha.dsu.edu [138.247.32.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA08836 Fri, 8 Dec 1995 06:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ghelmer@localhost) by alpha.dsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id IAA17422; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:48:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:48:57 -0600 (CST) From: Guy Helmer To: Joe Greco cc: John Beukema , hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: newsserver configuration In-Reply-To: <199512071225.GAA10255@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > [... sample news server config ...] > I typically recommend a MINIMAL setup: > [... lots o' disks ...] > News Rule 1: You would rather have LOTS of slightly slower, smaller disks > than a few large, fast drives. This fact has been lost on so many people. > If I had a nickel for every time I've told somebody this and they've ignored > me, I could be Bill Gates. What has always bothered me about multiple-disk news spools is the warning about using makehistory on a news filesystem that uses symlinks. Just a little over a month ago, I completely lost a history file, and it seems I could have followed the advice on the news-recovery man page (to use find(1) to remove all the symlinks in the news spool). Now, after a few minor crashes apparently due to a new disk on my SCSI chain interacting badly with the other, I probably need to run a makehistory -bu (but I sure wouldn't want to remove all the symlinks in the news spool before I would do the makehistory!). What are the thoughts on this, or are there patches to makehistory to handle symlinks? > ... Joe Thanks, Guy Helmer Guy Helmer, Dakota State University Computing Services - ghelmer@alpha.dsu.edu From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 05:16:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA21579 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 05:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from iceonline.com (ns.iceonline.com [204.191.208.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA21574 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 05:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from edmbbs.iceonline.com by iceonline.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0tOPDU-000tXUC; Sat, 9 Dec 95 05:21 WET Received: by edmbbs.iceonline.com (UUPM-1.51) id D5651Li Sat, Dec 09, 1995 05:01:26 EST From: sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com Message-Id: <9512090501.D5651Li@edmbbs.iceonline.com> X-Mailer: UUPlus Mail 1.51 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Hardware for ISP / WWW server Organization: EDMBBS Marketing Date: Sat, 09 Dec 95 05:01:24 EST Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What hardware would you all recommend for an ISP / Web server? We'll probably have a 56k digital line (Maybe T1) and an as-yet-unknown number of dial-up slip/ppp users. Here's what I was thinking... Pentium 90 (PCI) with 256k or 512k cache 32 megs of RAM Cheap SCSI CDROM (1x or 2x, only for installing FreeBSD) Fast SCSI hard drive(s)... SCSI is best? Cheap VGA card+monitor 28.8 kbps modems for dial-up Cheap ethernet card so a nearby Dos machine can have net access With 32 megs, we'll have only a minimal newsfeed... Everything will be handled by this one machine. Is this do-able? We were thinking of starting with just a 1-2 gig HD, and if we need more space, buy another drive. And HD brand recommendations? Is SCSI the best choice for the HD? Any recommendations on the brand of SCSI interface? Any brand recommendations on the motherboard? Any advice would be appreciated. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 08:57:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA01548 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 08:57:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [205.218.122.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01539 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 08:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA09245; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 10:57:41 -0600 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 10:57:40 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <9512090501.D5651Li@edmbbs.iceonline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995 sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com wrote: > Pentium 90 (PCI) with 256k or 512k cache Get an Asus Triton based motherboard. If you can get 512k cache (sync pipeline) then do. You probably want to get 60ns ram so you can use it on the P120 or P6 you may upgrade to in the future. > 32 megs of RAM This will work. I'm running 4 virtual domains on my test system for various things on a 32 meg machine. If you do alot of CGI you will probably want more. > Cheap SCSI CDROM (1x or 2x, only for installing FreeBSD) The only thing I've used my cdroms for is playing music CDs. If you have the net connection, just install from the net. (Well, you can get one of these for about $70, so what the heck) > Fast SCSI hard drive(s)... SCSI is best? I'm using Quantum Grand Prix drives here and they are very nice. You just have to make sure they are cooled well. The Atlas drives are better still. I'm using bt946s and NCR810s but you will probably want to go with and Adaptec 294x card. > Cheap VGA card+monitor Very. Don't encourage X use on this machine. > 28.8 kbps modems for dial-up Run dialup from a terminal server. A Livingston portmaster is a great box and has a very hackable security server. (Um... no, rather its easy to modify to suit your needs) > Cheap ethernet card so a nearby Dos machine can have net access Get a DE21040 based card. Cheap and FAST. > With 32 megs, we'll have only a minimal newsfeed... Everything will > be handled by this one machine. Is this do-able? Er... Maybe. > We were thinking of starting with just a 1-2 gig HD, and if we need more > space, buy another drive. And HD brand recommendations? Is SCSI the best I usually like a gig for the system disk. That lets you install all the sources and the ports skeleton and most all the utils you could want. (And lots of swap). A second gig or two for user space / web / small ftp areas... News is a whole different story. Need more disk/ram etc. > choice for the HD? Any recommendations on the brand of SCSI interface? > Any brand recommendations on the motherboard? SCSI. Adaptec. Asus. > Any advice would be appreciated. I've a dx4/100 with 32 meg and 2 gigs of disk that runs 4 virtual web/ftp domains, an irc server, 2 muds, secondary name service, samba file service for some windows boxes, and usually has 10-20 shell users on it. Its not a very busy machine but I'm very impressed with how well it runs... As long as you don't overbudget your system, you should be able to do lots of stuff on it. Take care and have fun. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 09:43:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04222 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA04216 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA22132; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:43:04 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512091743.LAA22132@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server To: sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:43:03 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9512090501.D5651Li@edmbbs.iceonline.com> from "sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com" at Dec 9, 95 05:01:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > What hardware would you all recommend for an ISP / Web server? We'll > probably have a 56k digital line (Maybe T1) and an as-yet-unknown number > of dial-up slip/ppp users. Here's what I was thinking... > > Pentium 90 (PCI) with 256k or 512k cache > 32 megs of RAM > Cheap SCSI CDROM (1x or 2x, only for installing FreeBSD) > Fast SCSI hard drive(s)... SCSI is best? > Cheap VGA card+monitor > 28.8 kbps modems for dial-up > Cheap ethernet card so a nearby Dos machine can have net access > > With 32 megs, we'll have only a minimal newsfeed... Everything will > be handled by this one machine. Is this do-able? do-able, yes, wise, no.... the saying "put all of your eggs in one basket" should be foremost in your mind. the concept of functional separation seems to be lost on most people these days. by putting everything on one box you are increasing your vulnerability. think about: 1) mail bombs - somebody subscribes a user to a trillion mailing lists 2) www bombs - somebody posts on alt.sex.pictures that you have a dirty picture archive somewhere on your server 3) news problems - somebody fills your disk 4) user problems - somebody writes a program that causes major problems for your systems (fork bombs, VM eaters, etc). etc etc etc. now, if you have all your eggs in one basket, your whole operation is toast if any one of these things happens. now consider a site set up as follows: a "general purpose" user machine (shell, POP mail, etc) a "terminal server" to handle tty and PPP dialins a "primary mail/dns hub" a "secondary mail/dns hub" a "web server system" a "news server" now, many common problems are compartmentalized. if somebody blows your web server out of the water, so sad!! but your customers can still do everything else. if the news server has a disk failure, so sad!! but your customers are still OK. if a user writes a fork bomb and locks up the shell machine, so sad!! but your customers can still dial in and surf the Web, read news, etc. even separating it into maybe three systems is a much safer idea: general purpose/primary mail/dns box terminal server web/news/secondary mail/dns although here at home, I am definitely much more compartmentalized than that. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 09:59:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04609 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:59:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA04602 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA22167; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:58:32 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512091758.LAA22167@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server To: winter@jurai.net (Matthew N. Dodd) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:58:32 -0600 (CST) Cc: sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Matthew N. Dodd" at Dec 9, 95 10:57:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > 28.8 kbps modems for dial-up > > Run dialup from a terminal server. A Livingston portmaster is a great > box and has a very hackable security server. (Um... no, rather its easy > to modify to suit your needs) Ewww, no way. A Livingston Portmaster has some pretty gnarly drawbacks: 1) has problems with subnets 2) requires you to waste IP addresses due to the way the thing reserves addresses for dropped connections 3) in the case of dropped connections totally bungles the way its handled 4) isn't really all that flexible 5) etc (my mind can't think this morning) I deal with sites that use FreeBSD as terminal servers and sites that use Portmasters as terminal servers. Invariably the sites with Portmasters have all sorts of bizarro hacks in place to try to get around various problems and limitations that these stupid devices seem to cause and/or impose. If you want a "real" terminal server, buy an Annex. If you want a more flexible solution than either of these two, go get a dedicated FreeBSD box. With the price of a 486DX4/120 motherboard being around $200, 16MB of RAM for about $500, and a 16 port BocaBoard for about $250, you can make a really reasonable terminal server quite easily. I prefer the FreeBSD solution because it plays seamlessly with the rest of my operations, I always have spare parts around in case of emergencies, I like being able to do IP firewalling and arbitrary routing without headaches, and all the other nifty stuff FreeBSD allows you to do.. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 11:17:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA07986 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07981 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:17:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30758-1>; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:19:29 -0000 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:19:17 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Joe Greco cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <199512091758.LAA22167@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > 28.8 kbps modems for dial-up > > > > Run dialup from a terminal server. A Livingston portmaster is a great > > box and has a very hackable security server. (Um... no, rather its easy > > to modify to suit your needs) > > Ewww, no way. > > A Livingston Portmaster has some pretty gnarly drawbacks: > > 1) has problems with subnets None, that I've seen. And I run quite a few sub-nets from various Portmasters. In fact, my house is connected by one. > 2) requires you to waste IP addresses due to the way the thing reserves > addresses for dropped connections Huh? You need 30 addresses for 30 ports. There was a reported bug, that said that the unit would sometimes use 31 or 32. But still hardly a waste. > 3) in the case of dropped connections totally bungles the way its handled I haven't seen this either. > 4) isn't really all that flexible Not especially. But what it does, it does well. > 5) etc (my mind can't think this morning) > > I deal with sites that use FreeBSD as terminal servers and sites that use > Portmasters as terminal servers. Invariably the sites with Portmasters have > all sorts of bizarro hacks in place to try to get around various problems > and limitations that these stupid devices seem to cause and/or impose. > > If you want a "real" terminal server, buy an Annex. A Portmaster can run all ports with PPP at 115,200 baud continous. Try that on an Annex. > If you want a more flexible solution than either of these two, go get a > dedicated FreeBSD box. With the price of a 486DX4/120 motherboard being > around $200, 16MB of RAM for about $500, and a 16 port BocaBoard for about > $250, you can make a really reasonable terminal server quite easily. The problem is, is that PC serial hardware will never give you performance of a terminal server. Tom From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 12:08:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10351 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 12:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA10346 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 12:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA22400; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 14:06:51 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512092006.OAA22400@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server To: tom@uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 14:06:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: winter@jurai.net, sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Dec 9, 95 11:19:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > 28.8 kbps modems for dial-up > > > > > > Run dialup from a terminal server. A Livingston portmaster is a great > > > box and has a very hackable security server. (Um... no, rather its easy > > > to modify to suit your needs) > > > > Ewww, no way. > > > > A Livingston Portmaster has some pretty gnarly drawbacks: > > > > 1) has problems with subnets > > None, that I've seen. And I run quite a few sub-nets from various > Portmasters. In fact, my house is connected by one. Tried running one on a non-class-C subnet? > > 2) requires you to waste IP addresses due to the way the thing reserves > > addresses for dropped connections > > Huh? You need 30 addresses for 30 ports. There was a reported bug, > that said that the unit would sometimes use 31 or 32. But still hardly a > waste. Not a bug, a feature. The Portmaster reportedly will try to "hold on" to a connection pending a reconnect, but on a busy dial in pool you need to reserve more like 40 addresses minimally. > > 3) in the case of dropped connections totally bungles the way its handled > > I haven't seen this either. This is directly related to 2)... I recently tracked a bunch of hanging processes out at Exec-PC to this very problem. The Portmasters do something strange (not quite sure what since I didn't have a network sniffer) that appears to make FreeBSD's TCP/IP think that the connection is still out there somewhere... and they have had other problems with this "feature" as well. > > 4) isn't really all that flexible > > Not especially. But what it does, it does well. > > > 5) etc (my mind can't think this morning) > > > > I deal with sites that use FreeBSD as terminal servers and sites that use > > Portmasters as terminal servers. Invariably the sites with Portmasters have > > all sorts of bizarro hacks in place to try to get around various problems > > and limitations that these stupid devices seem to cause and/or impose. > > > > If you want a "real" terminal server, buy an Annex. > > A Portmaster can run all ports with PPP at 115,200 baud continous. Try > that on an Annex. Guess it depends which Annex.. > > If you want a more flexible solution than either of these two, go get a > > dedicated FreeBSD box. With the price of a 486DX4/120 motherboard being > > around $200, 16MB of RAM for about $500, and a 16 port BocaBoard for about > > $250, you can make a really reasonable terminal server quite easily. > > The problem is, is that PC serial hardware will never give you > performance of a terminal server. I would think that you could get pretty decent performance out of a high end 486, which are dirt cheap. Or perhaps a Specialix card, if need be... and to be quite honest, I've never seen an ISP where all ports are running PPP at 115,200 baud continuous. I'm often out at Exec-PC, and they're a large Portmaster shop (13? portmasters on the 390 lines in their Milwaukee POP). Most of their lines are connected whenever I look, yet I only see bits of bursty data here and there. The need for a terminal server to run 115200 on all ports simultaneously is marketing bullshit. With 28.8K modems and most graphics being fairly compressed, I would be suprised if the average CPS on a maxxed out port exceeded 4000cps, and at maybe 20% duty cycle under "heavy" traffic conditions, for 16 ports that's 13Ktotal/sec or for 32 ports that's 25Ktotal/sec, which is roughly what I have observed sio to be capable of on a 386DX/40 (two 230.4K serial ports, 1 in use at 22K/sec, 1 in use with a 28.8K modem at around 3K/sec). I suspect a 486DX4/120 would be capable of maybe 5x or 6x this sort of throughput before the CPU got noticeably busy. But of course you've already saturated your 56Kb line several times over at 25KB/sec, or to put it another way, you could maybe shoehorn six 32 port terminal servers onto a T1 at the data rates I have suggested before saturation occurs. For your average ISP, this is probably a much-more-than-adequate solution. And of course with FreeBSD you can go down to the corner store for spare parts, and you get the source. What more could you ask for? I refuse to be a victim of Livingston propaganda :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 12:57:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13115 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 12:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.ftcnet.com (admin@alpha.ftcnet.com [204.174.119.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13110 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 12:57:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from admin@localhost) by alpha.ftcnet.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA29051; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 12:52:52 -0800 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 12:52:51 -0800 (PST) From: Bernard Klatt To: sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <9512090501.D5651Li@edmbbs.iceonline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995 sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com wrote: > What hardware would you all recommend for an ISP / Web server? We'll > probably have a 56k digital line (Maybe T1) and an as-yet-unknown number > of dial-up slip/ppp users. Here's what I was thinking... I'd recommend taking a look at the www.amazing.com/internet Web page. It should answer nearly all ISP startup related questions. > Pentium 90 (PCI) with 256k or 512k cache > 32 megs of RAM > Cheap SCSI CDROM (1x or 2x, only for installing FreeBSD) > Fast SCSI hard drive(s)... SCSI is best? > Cheap VGA card+monitor > 28.8 kbps modems for dial-up Don't buy 'cheap' here. If you can afford it, go with USR Courier V.Everything external's. The new ones do 33.6 (maybe 38.4). > Cheap ethernet card so a nearby Dos machine can have net access Avoid NE-2000, 3Com 3C509's have better drivers. > With 32 megs, we'll have only a minimal newsfeed... Everything will > be handled by this one machine. Is this do-able? Yes, but you'll want to move news to a 2nd machine as soon as possible. > > We were thinking of starting with just a 1-2 gig HD, and if we need more > space, buy another drive. And HD brand recommendations? Is SCSI the best > choice for the HD? Any recommendations on the brand of SCSI interface? > Any brand recommendations on the motherboard? SCSI is the ONLY reasonable choice for a multi-tasking operating system. SCSI-II is fine, you don't really need SCSI-III or Wide. > Any advice would be appreciated. Bernard Klatt Owner Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. www.ftcnet.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 13:09:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13531 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:09:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [205.218.122.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13520 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:09:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA24097; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:08:03 -0600 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:08:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Joe Greco cc: sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <199512091758.LAA22167@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > to modify to suit your needs) > Ewww, no way. :) > A Livingston Portmaster has some pretty gnarly drawbacks: > > 1) has problems with subnets True. OSPF Real Soon Now(tm). (And I'm not routing networks with it. yet)B > 2) requires you to waste IP addresses due to the way the thing reserves > addresses for dropped connectionso Not if you modify radius to assign the SAME IP for each port. (S1 has .1, S2 has .2 etc...)B > 3) in the case of dropped connections totally bungles the way its handled I don't understand this. > 4) isn't really all that flexible Yes, its rather stupid. (This is good though.) > 5) etc (my mind can't think this morning) Busted! > I deal with sites that use FreeBSD as terminal servers and sites that use > Portmasters as terminal servers. Invariably the sites with Portmasters have > all sorts of bizarro hacks in place to try to get around various problems > and limitations that these stupid devices seem to cause and/or impose. Well there is that. > If you want a "real" terminal server, buy an Annex. Oh. And get a non rs232 compliant serial port? :) (I didn't even say this.) > If you want a more flexible solution than either of these two, go get a > dedicated FreeBSD box. With the price of a 486DX4/120 motherboard being > around $200, 16MB of RAM for about $500, and a 16 port BocaBoard for about > $250, you can make a really reasonable terminal server quite easily. True, but the Portmaster just sits and works. My problem right now is crappy modems. I'm going to fix that pretty soon. > I prefer the FreeBSD solution because it plays seamlessly with the rest of > my operations, I always have spare parts around in case of emergencies, I > like being able to do IP firewalling and arbitrary routing without > headaches, and all the other nifty stuff FreeBSD allows you to do.. True. A Unix based TS box has its advantages. I just don't want to have to hack that much to get it integrated with my setup. I'm having enough trouble making myself write a detail file processor. :) Maybe when I have slept more. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 13:10:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13647 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:10:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [205.218.122.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13641 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:10:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA24250; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:10:47 -0600 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:10:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Tom Samplonius cc: Joe Greco , sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Tom Samplonius wrote: > On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > around $200, 16MB of RAM for about $500, and a 16 port BocaBoard for about > > $250, you can make a really reasonable terminal server quite easily. > The problem is, is that PC serial hardware will never give you > performance of a terminal server. Actually, I don't mind paying for a plug in solution that someone else gets to do tech support for. Livingston tech support is pretty damn good. I think that the cost/performance factor may be in favor of the FreeBSD box though. (Of course, I'm young and have much to learn so I could be wrong.) | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 13:17:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13964 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:17:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [205.218.122.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13957 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA24561; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:16:05 -0600 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:16:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Joe Greco cc: Tom Samplonius , sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <199512092006.OAA22400@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > None, that I've seen. And I run quite a few sub-nets from various > > Portmasters. In fact, my house is connected by one. > Tried running one on a non-class-C subnet? Thats a RIP issue more than a Portmaster issue. Its not their fault they use RIP. :) > Not a bug, a feature. The Portmaster reportedly will try to "hold on" to a > connection pending a reconnect, but on a busy dial in pool you need to > reserve more like 40 addresses minimally. Reportedly. When I start having these problems I'm going to do my own dynamic addressing through radius. > Guess it depends which Annex.. There are only about 4 zillion different models. > And of course with FreeBSD you can go down to the corner store for spare > parts, and you get the source. What more could you ask for? A boxed solution? I don't know. Maybe I will sit down and roll a FreeBSD terminal server thingy. Just to see if it would be worth using. Maybe when I get more sleep. > I refuse to be a victim of Livingston propaganda :-) Strange. I never talked to them. What are they saying? | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 13:33:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14733 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA14696 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30751-1>; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:35:25 -0000 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:35:19 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Joe Greco cc: winter@jurai.net, sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <199512092006.OAA22400@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > > > 28.8 kbps modems for dial-up > > > > > > > > Run dialup from a terminal server. A Livingston portmaster is a great > > > > box and has a very hackable security server. (Um... no, rather its easy > > > > to modify to suit your needs) > > > > > > Ewww, no way. > > > > > > A Livingston Portmaster has some pretty gnarly drawbacks: > > > > > > 1) has problems with subnets > > > > None, that I've seen. And I run quite a few sub-nets from various > > Portmasters. In fact, my house is connected by one. > > Tried running one on a non-class-C subnet? Yep. I've routed multiple 255.255.255.240 subnets, as well as had a Pormaster on a 255.255.255.128 subnet. > > > 2) requires you to waste IP addresses due to the way the thing reserves > > > addresses for dropped connections > > > > Huh? You need 30 addresses for 30 ports. There was a reported bug, > > that said that the unit would sometimes use 31 or 32. But still hardly a > > waste. > > Not a bug, a feature. The Portmaster reportedly will try to "hold on" to a > connection pending a reconnect, but on a busy dial in pool you need to > reserve more like 40 addresses minimally. Doesn't happen. On a busy pool, it will just re-use what's available. > > > 3) in the case of dropped connections totally bungles the way its handled > > > > I haven't seen this either. > > This is directly related to 2)... I recently tracked a bunch of hanging > processes out at Exec-PC to this very problem. The Portmasters do something > strange (not quite sure what since I didn't have a network sniffer) that > appears to make FreeBSD's TCP/IP think that the connection is still out > there somewhere... and they have had other problems with this "feature" as > well. I've never seen this before. What kind of hanging processes were they? ... > > > If you want a "real" terminal server, buy an Annex. > > > > A Portmaster can run all ports with PPP at 115,200 baud continous. Try > > that on an Annex. > > Guess it depends which Annex.. > > > > If you want a more flexible solution than either of these two, go get a > > > dedicated FreeBSD box. With the price of a 486DX4/120 motherboard being > > > around $200, 16MB of RAM for about $500, and a 16 port BocaBoard for about > > > $250, you can make a really reasonable terminal server quite easily. > > > > The problem is, is that PC serial hardware will never give you > > performance of a terminal server. > > I would think that you could get pretty decent performance out of a high end > 486, which are dirt cheap. Or perhaps a Specialix card, if need be... and > to be quite honest, I've never seen an ISP where all ports are running PPP > at 115,200 baud continuous. I'm often out at Exec-PC, and they're a large > Portmaster shop (13? portmasters on the 390 lines in their Milwaukee POP). > Most of their lines are connected whenever I look, yet I only see bits of > bursty data here and there. The need for a terminal server to run 115200 > on all ports simultaneously is marketing bullshit. With 28.8K modems and > most graphics being fairly compressed, I would be suprised if the average > CPS on a maxxed out port exceeded 4000cps, and at maybe 20% duty cycle under > "heavy" traffic conditions, for 16 ports that's 13Ktotal/sec or for 32 ports > that's 25Ktotal/sec, which is roughly what I have observed sio to be capable > of on a 386DX/40 (two 230.4K serial ports, 1 in use at 22K/sec, 1 in use > with a 28.8K modem at around 3K/sec). > You are right, 28.8k modems do not require continous 115,200. However, some terminal servers can't handle all ports at 28.8k. What is enough for a "typical" terminal server? I'd prefer that the unit have lots of extra horsepower that you'd never use, rather than it bog down once in a while. As well, Portmaster have faster response time. When I used a PM at home for a dedicated 28.8k line, ping times were consistently faster than my FreeBSD box. > And of course with FreeBSD you can go down to the corner store for spare > parts, and you get the source. What more could you ask for? I've never needed to replace anything in a Portmaster. Tom From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 13:36:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15155 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA15146 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA22574; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:35:06 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512092135.PAA22574@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server To: winter@jurai.net (Matthew N. Dodd) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:35:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: tom@uniserve.com, sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Matthew N. Dodd" at Dec 9, 95 03:16:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > None, that I've seen. And I run quite a few sub-nets from various > > > Portmasters. In fact, my house is connected by one. > > Tried running one on a non-class-C subnet? > > Thats a RIP issue more than a Portmaster issue. Its not their fault they > use RIP. :) So whose fault is it? :-) :-) > > Not a bug, a feature. The Portmaster reportedly will try to "hold on" to a > > connection pending a reconnect, but on a busy dial in pool you need to > > reserve more like 40 addresses minimally. > > Reportedly. When I start having these problems I'm going to do my > own dynamic addressing through radius. Oh, the pain. :-/ Basically I've been on the "other side of the glass" a lot of times as I have seen a lot of people who are exasperated with (X, Y, Z, combination of, etc.) about the Portmasters. That is not to say that they do not fill their intended purpose, but they do seem to me to be the VW Bug of terminal servers (everybody has 'em, nobody likes 'em, everybody has to open the trunk and tinker every once in a while in order to work around quirks). > > Guess it depends which Annex.. > > There are only about 4 zillion different models. True :-) > > And of course with FreeBSD you can go down to the corner store for spare > > parts, and you get the source. What more could you ask for? > > A boxed solution? I don't know. Maybe I will sit down and roll a FreeBSD > terminal server thingy. Just to see if it would be worth using. Maybe > when I get more sleep. I keep thinking I should do that as well. What I use here in-house is specialized and requires some other services that exist here in-house. It would be cool to see a more generalized package... > > I refuse to be a victim of Livingston propaganda :-) > > Strange. I never talked to them. What are they saying? I was referring to the "Portmaster can do 115200 on all ports" remark. I consider this to be marketing propaganda because a Portmaster doing 115200 in one direction on all ports is creating 11K * 30 (330K) of traffic per second on an Ethernet, which in the real world is totally impractical. These are things geeks tell their girlfriends to try to impress them, not real world useful numbers. It's like saying that a Fibre Channel SCSI disk can do 100MB/sec transfers, when I know damn well that most drives only transfer data internally at < 80 Mbits/sec, so the bus speed is irrelevant when looking at a single drive. Marketing hype. Maybe sexy marketing hype to some people, but I prefer real world, cold, cruel, useful, relevant, hard data when doing product evaluations... And I'm hardly convinced that FreeBSD is NOT capable of the same feat. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 13:45:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16044 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:45:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [205.218.122.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16034 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:44:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA26229; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:43:53 -0600 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:43:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Joe Greco cc: tom@uniserve.com, sreid@edmbbs.iceonline.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <199512092135.PAA22574@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > Thats a RIP issue more than a Portmaster issue. Its not their fault they > > use RIP. :) > So whose fault is it? :-) :-) No, its their fault for not using something a little less primative. But they are working on it... > Oh, the pain. :-/ Basically I've been on the "other side of the glass" a > lot of times as I have seen a lot of people who are exasperated with (X, Y, > Z, combination of, etc.) about the Portmasters. That is not to say that > they do not fill their intended purpose, but they do seem to me to be the > VW Bug of terminal servers (everybody has 'em, nobody likes 'em, everybody > has to open the trunk and tinker every once in a while in order to work > around quirks). Oh come on. It can't get any worse. I'me working too long for too little and one itty bitty terminal server to tweak isn't too much to ask now is it? :) > I keep thinking I should do that as well. What I use here in-house is > specialized and requires some other services that exist here in-house. It > would be cool to see a more generalized package... I think I talked with a friend about doing this a while ago. > to some people, but I prefer real world, cold, cruel, useful, relevant, > hard data when doing product evaluations... Yea, but you need fluff and nice glossy colored pictures of Black and Purple boxes to impress your boss with. :) > And I'm hardly convinced that FreeBSD is NOT capable of the same feat. :-) I didn't suggest otherwise. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 13:50:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16684 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16671 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30733-2>; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:52:37 -0000 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:52:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Joe Greco cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <199512092135.PAA22574@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > Strange. I never talked to them. What are they saying? > > I was referring to the "Portmaster can do 115200 on all ports" remark. I > consider this to be marketing propaganda because a Portmaster doing 115200 > in one direction on all ports is creating 11K * 30 (330K) of traffic per > second on an Ethernet, which in the real world is totally impractical. You missing out on some other possibilities for traffic: - other ports - synch port of PM2eR A lot of places use Portmaster's for thing other than ISP. The "real world" is more than just the Internet! Tom From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 13:54:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17230 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17210 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA22623; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:53:22 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512092153.PAA22623@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server To: tom@uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:53:22 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Dec 9, 95 01:52:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > Strange. I never talked to them. What are they saying? > > > > I was referring to the "Portmaster can do 115200 on all ports" remark. I > > consider this to be marketing propaganda because a Portmaster doing 115200 > > in one direction on all ports is creating 11K * 30 (330K) of traffic per > > second on an Ethernet, which in the real world is totally impractical. > > You missing out on some other possibilities for traffic: > > - other ports > - synch port of PM2eR > > A lot of places use Portmaster's for thing other than ISP. The "real > world" is more than just the Internet! Yes, but consider the context: a discussion on freebsd-isp from a fellow who is setting up an isp... And of course there are other possibilities for the traffic. But in your typical ISP scenario, the most likely possibility is out the Internet connection :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 9 16:02:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA00440 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 16:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from okjunc.junction.net (michael@okjunc.junction.net [199.166.227.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00433 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 16:02:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from michael@localhost) by okjunc.junction.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id QAA11916; Sat, 9 Dec 1995 16:05:39 -0800 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 16:05:39 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon X-Sender: michael@okjunc.junction.net To: Joe Greco cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware for ISP / WWW server In-Reply-To: <199512092135.PAA22574@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: Organization: we provide consulting re: Internet servers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > Oh, the pain. :-/ Basically I've been on the "other side of the glass" a > lot of times as I have seen a lot of people who are exasperated with (X, Y, > Z, combination of, etc.) about the Portmasters. That is not to say that > they do not fill their intended purpose, Well, if they fill their intended purpose, then they must be a good thing, eh? > but they do seem to me to be the > VW Bug of terminal servers (everybody has 'em, nobody likes 'em, everybody > has to open the trunk and tinker every once in a while in order to work > around quirks). And I suppose your FreeBSD solution doesn't require you to open the trunk and tinker every once in a while in order to work around quirks? Lets face it, Portmasters are like any other quality high-tech equipment. They are great when they work, but can be a pain to learn what they can do and how to make them do what you want. If you have the time to spend on it, there is nothing wrong with setting up a FreeBSD terminal server, especially if you use a hacked login to act as a RADIUS client to your shell machine. But some ISP's don't have the time to spend on this and for those people a Livingston Portmaster is a great solution. That's probably why most of the people on the Portmaster Users list are ISP's. Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-542-4130 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com