From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 25 16:08:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA18930 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dympna (dympna.lgc.com [134.132.73.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18925 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dympna (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA17641 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:07:33 -0500 Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:07:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Snow X-Sender: rsnow@dympna To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: My worldstone numbers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One of my more relaxing projects this weekend was trying to optimize my worldstone numbers, I fairly happy with my improvement (from 6900sec). My Hardware: P6-233/256 cache / Natoma / 64MB EDO 2940 / (sd0) ST1080N / (sd1) ST15230N My Config: 2.2-801-SNAP AHC_TAGENABLE, AHC_SCBPAGE_ENABLE, AUTO_EOI_1&2, SYSV stuff /usr/src on sd1 async /usr/obj on sd0 async /usr also on sd0 async TMPDIR=/tmp, /tmp is MFS make.conf options = -O -pipe My Run: cd /usr/src make clean make depend /usr/bin/time make world Results: 4670.28 real 3059.12 user 796.72 sys Comments: I had a dang cron job kick off in the middle, however, it only ran for 23.89 real. GENERIC builds in 187sec. This setup was 100sec faster than having /usr/obj and /usr/src on the same faster (sd1) drive. I'll need to borrow another drive from work (preferably 7200rpm) and a 512k P6 (or 2 if the SMP code'l run on my MB) and try to better these numbers. All in all, it was a quite nice diversion. -Rob From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 00:09:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA24188 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (ascend.star-gate.com [204.188.121.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA24181 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA00650; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608260709.AAA00650@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Rob Snow cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: My worldstone numbers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:07:33 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:09:33 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cool Numbers 8) I wonder how the kernel or worldstone numbers will turn out if you use ccd ? 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 02:43:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA00313 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA00308 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA00831 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:13:35 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608260943.TAA00831@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Wallpaper images? To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:13:34 +0930 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, so we have some cool window managers (although afterstep is a dog 8( ), now where does one go looking for wallpaper? Nothing obvious (short of spending weeks downloading images off Windows archives) pops up from AltaVista - anyone have any pointers? Ta. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 07:36:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA12866 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA12860 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02314; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:36:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Rob Snow cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: P6 hardware (was Re: My worldstone numbers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, Rob Snow wrote: > > My Hardware: > P6-233/256 cache / Natoma / 64MB EDO Where can I find more details on getting a "Natoma" motherboard? I recall seeing something about it in the lists, but I stupidly deleted the messages before realizing I may be in the market for P6 systems relatively soon. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 08:01:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA16760 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA16717 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emu.fsl.noaa.gov (kelly@emu.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.32]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA02541; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:01:46 GMT Message-Id: <199608261501.PAA02541@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.40.112.4/16.2) id AA084321817; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:03:37 -0600 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:03:37 -0600 From: Sean Kelly To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608260943.TAA00831@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> (message from Michael Smith on Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:13:34 +0930 (CST)) Subject: Re: Wallpaper images? Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Smith writes: Michael> Nothing obvious (short of spending weeks downloading images Michael> off Windows archives) pops up from AltaVista - anyone have Michael> any pointers? Some of background page patterns suggested by Netscape work pretty well---that is, they aren't visually noisy, color intensive, etc. Others are awful; I'm sure you'll see what I mean: http://home.netscape.com/assist/net_sites/bg/backgrounds.html -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 11:35:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01300 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dympna (dympna.lgc.com [134.132.73.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01295 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dympna (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA24797; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:34:22 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:34:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Snow X-Sender: rsnow@dympna To: Brian Tao cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: P6 hardware (was Re: My worldstone numbers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Brian Tao wrote: > On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, Rob Snow wrote: > > > > My Hardware: > > P6-233/256 cache / Natoma / 64MB EDO > > Where can I find more details on getting a "Natoma" motherboard? > I recall seeing something about it in the lists, but I stupidly > deleted the messages before realizing I may be in the market for P6 > systems relatively soon. I'll tell you what I THINK I know about the 440FX chipset (aka Natoma). >From Intel, a lower cost/chip count alternative to 450[GV]X (aka Orion). It supports (on my board) 2 CPU's, EDO, BEDO, FPM RAM. It DOESN'T support memory interleaving or DIMMS as the Orion does. However, as we know, Orion has had mucho problemos. I'd guess the Natoma is a workstation chipset and the Orion is designed to be a server chipset. BTW, I'm seeing bare bones (1 CPU, case, ps, motherboard with support 2 CPU's ) for about $1600. Hope that helps, Rob > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) > Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 13:25:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA13555 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmission.xmission.com (softweyr@xmission.xmission.com [198.60.22.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13548 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from softweyr@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) id OAA13831; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:24:03 -0600 (MDT) From: Softweyr LLC Message-Id: <199608262024.OAA13831@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: JDK 1.02 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4490.840949972@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 24, 96 10:12:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard observed: > Java also lacks a "viewer" for any of the *BSD or Linux variants. > With Tcl/TK, a very nice one is provided called "wish" :-) Um, I recently ftp'd Netscape 3.0b5 to my FreeBSD machine; the java interpreter seems to work OK. I haven't tested it other than to surf to www.hungry.com, though. > But I still think that the two languages were designed for very > different things. Tcl is excellent for instrumenting an existing > application, say for adding a macro language to an existing word > processor application with minimal perturberation of code. AFAIK, > nothing like that is possible with Java and so that'll certainly be > one area where Tcl holds a clear and obvious advantage. Java, on the other hand, was designed to allow programmers to write applications that would be dynamically downloaded into "network devices" which would then execute the program and report the results to the "originator." I've heard this was born out of a second generation network manager project, a follow-on to SunNet Manager. In this context, it makes a lot of sense: rather than querying MIBs across the net, you can writ arbitrarily complex programs that query and massage the raw data into "information" *on the target system.* > On the other > hand, we're all supposed to be writing generic code with IDL interface > glue so that we can instrument the GUI from a completely separate > application anyway. :-) I wonder how that free CORBA implementation is > coming along. Galaxy, from Visix software, does this pretty well. It's cool to see the same app look like Motif, Open Look, or MS-Windows on the same platform. On the other hand, it is huge, expensive, and demands that most, if not all, of your application be developed in Galaxy. Ugh. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 13:39:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA14457 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA14452 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA09061; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:35:59 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@current1.whistle.com (Julian Elischer), chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: new gcc In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Aug 1996 12:23:53 PDT." <199608261923.MAA23022@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:35:59 -0700 Message-ID: <9059.841091759@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Redirected towards -chat at warp speed] > Everyone says "it's a moot point" to mean "it's not worthy of discussion" > when they are trying to sound intellectual. Look it up -- "moot" means > "subject to discussion". You look it up, and use a more modern dictionary this time! :-) More recent ones list `moot' as also having the meaning you're deriding here, though I'd have been more inclined to describe that as "for which further discussion would be superfluous" rather than "not worthy of discussion", something which makes a value judgment I've never heard associated with the word "moot." Anyway, we already had all this out in -hackers about 2 months ago, someone looked it up in a recently updated dictionary and cited the *full* entry for it, and the conclusion then was that both definitions were acceptable, so I guess the point is moot. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 14:00:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA15680 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA15672 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA09132; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:00:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Softweyr LLC cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: JDK 1.02 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:24:02 MDT." <199608262024.OAA13831@xmission.xmission.com> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:00:43 -0700 Message-ID: <9130.841093243@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Um, I recently ftp'd Netscape 3.0b5 to my FreeBSD machine; the java > interpreter seems to work OK. I haven't tested it other than to surf > to www.hungry.com, though. Too "heavy" - I'd like something like "appletview" which I can use to simply test a small hello world applet without having to start the entire behemoth that is netscape. > > different things. Tcl is excellent for instrumenting an existing > > application, say for adding a macro language to an existing word > > Java, on the other hand, was designed to allow programmers to write > applications that would be dynamically downloaded into "network > devices" which would then execute the program and report the results to > the "originator." I've heard this was born out of a second generation Perhaps I should have underlined the words "existing application" in my example a little more, or used caps. ;-) There are significant differences between the programming support market and the new development market. If you're working as an independant consultant, you're generally more than happy to get a development job where you actually get to work with the project team doing the implementation of the nice, new next-generation product, but in actual corporate reality that's somewhat rare. Getting onto a new project is a plum, and one tossed first to employees of the company. As the consultant, it makes more sense to place you in the legacy application group, handling the icky support and slipstream feature hacking for the old product so that the employees, who are all totally burnt out on the old codebase and have threatened a Jonestown-style mass suicide and murder orgy if they're not allowed a total re-write after the very next release, can get on with it. For those people, if you say "java" they will simply look back at you blankly and say "that's very nice, yes, but we were talking about the 70,000 lines of creeping, festering C code we have here and have promised to support for another 3 months. Here is the final critical bug fix and feature list we derived at our last meeting on this topic, back in July. Good luck! Bye!!" [hands you some polaroids of a whiteboard, on which you can barely make out some faint squiggles, and sprints out of the cubicle]. So let's be careful to keep our tools distinct, and realize when one tool is not applicable to the job of another (taking special care to avoid the "I've got this hammer" syndrome). As I said, for instrumenting legacy applications (or any application for which significant internal perturberation is not feasible), TCL is one of several very fine ways to go. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 14:13:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16464 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA16449 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA03018 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:12:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: San Jose Merc Story Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The San Jose Mercury News (the major newspaper of Silicon Valley) has a story in its Business Monday section today called "In the land of Unix, the faithful strive for unity," by Janet Rae-Dupree. It's primarily a report on SCO's Unix forum. The best part: "But how long will Unix survive? Microsoft Corp. is touting its 3-year old Windows NT operating system as easier to use, just as powerful and a cheaper solution to the thorny technical problems that Unix once solved exclusively. 'Cheaper' is probably the biggest thing going for NT. Unlike Unix, which demands expensive, high-end work stations to work, Windows NT can accomplish technical feats on run-of-the-mill destop personal computers." It would seem that Janet has an opportunity for a follow-up story here. Annelise From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 14:29:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA17382 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17377 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA23255; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:15:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199608262115.OAA23255@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: new gcc To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:15:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@current1.whistle.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-chat@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9059.841091759@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 26, 96 01:35:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyway, we already had all this out in -hackers about 2 months ago, > someone looked it up in a recently updated dictionary and cited the > *full* entry for it, and the conclusion then was that both definitions > were acceptable, so I guess the point is moot. :-) Heh. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 14:36:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA17671 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.hsc.wvu.edu (www.hsc.wvu.edu [157.182.105.122]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17665 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jsigmon@localhost) by www.hsc.wvu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA19238; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:36:40 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:36:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy Sigmon To: Gary Clark II cc: Joe Greco , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DOS Emulator (was: Re: JDK 1.02) In-Reply-To: <199608262005.PAA02165@main.gbdata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Whatever happened with the BSDI DOS emulator? As I recall, Jordan posted > > a note that BSDI had agreed to provide it to us to help prevent > > stagnation... and I don't recall hearing a word since. > > > > Just wondering. I don't have any DOS software anyways but I know it was > > of some interest to other folks. > > > Hello, > > >From what I can tell it died on the vine... I've got the source here, > but there are just way too many kernel changes needed and we have > diverged from 4.4-BSD way too much.:) > Gary So there will be no DOS Emulation. Pity. I would have liked to run a few DOS apps on my machine without rebooting to Win95. When DOS dies it would be nice to have it to work with like the C64 and Apple II emulators. I personally would like to see Win32 emulation, but I don't know if that will ever get advanced enough. Just my .02 From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 17:14:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA25945 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA25937 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA15291; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:14:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199608270014.UAA15291@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: jsigmon@www.hsc.wvu.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DOS Emulator (was: Re: JDK 1.02) Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.chat References: <4vt7er$1pst@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.chat you write: >So there will be no DOS Emulation. Pity. I would have liked to run a >few DOS apps on my machine without rebooting to Win95. >When DOS dies it would be nice to have it to work with like the C64 and >Apple II emulators. I personally would like to see Win32 emulation, but >I don't know if that will ever get advanced enough. That is pretty sad, I can run Amiga Apps, Atari ST Apps, Commodore 64 Apps, Atari 800 Apps, but I cant run DOS apps which use the same processor I do! Ah well. Only so many hacking days in a month -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 26 18:29:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04314 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04301 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA03802; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:56:33 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608270126.KAA03802@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: DOS Emulator (was: Re: JDK 1.02) To: jsigmon@www.hsc.wvu.edu (Jeremy Sigmon) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:56:32 +0930 (CST) Cc: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jeremy Sigmon" at Aug 26, 96 05:36:40 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeremy Sigmon stands accused of saying: > > So there will be no DOS Emulation. Pity. I would have liked to run a > few DOS apps on my machine without rebooting to Win95. So install PCEMU out of the ports collection. It even has EMS support now. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 27 05:56:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA03717 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.research.megasoft.com (gw.research.megasoft.com [206.230.35.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA03700 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com (goffette.research.megasoft.com [192.168.1.2]) by gw.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) with SMTP id IAA12377; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by goffette.research.megasoft.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA05374; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:51:00 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:51:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199608271251.IAA05374@goffette.research.megasoft.com> From: C Matthew Curtin To: Annelise Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: San Jose Merc Story In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com X-Attribution: mattC Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "A" == Annelise Anderson writes: A> It would seem that Janet has an opportunity for a follow-up story A> here. Is there an email address by which she can be contacted for a bit more enlightenment? :-) -- C Matthew Curtin MEGASOFT, LLC Chief Scientist I speak only for myself. Don't whine to anyone but me about anything I say. Hacker Security Firewall Crypto PGP Privacy Unix Perl Java Internet Intranet cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com http://research.megasoft.com/people/cmcurtin/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 27 21:29:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA26182 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA26176 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA11435; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:58:39 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608280428.NAA11435@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Wallpaper images? To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:58:38 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608261501.PAA02541@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Aug 26, 96 09:03:37 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Kelly stands accused of saying: > > >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Smith writes: > > Michael> Nothing obvious (short of spending weeks downloading images > Michael> off Windows archives) pops up from AltaVista - anyone have > Michael> any pointers? > > Some of background page patterns suggested by Netscape work pretty > well---that is, they aren't visually noisy, color intensive, etc. > Others are awful; I'm sure you'll see what I mean: > > http://home.netscape.com/assist/net_sites/bg/backgrounds.html That's not bad; Michael Searle suggested Albino Frog Software at http://www.frii.com/~afs/ - they have some very nice stuff too. (I'm currently using "Blood Lizard" and am generally very happy with it as an altenative to gray50 8) > Sean Kelly -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 27 22:43:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA02322 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02294; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA26445; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 01:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 01:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao Reply-To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L cc: FREEBSD-ISP-L Subject: Another pointless contest... gigantic passwd files? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't have any FreeBSD servers that have 400-day uptimes (although our Majordomo server is at 102 days now), but I figure one of our servers may have the largest passwd file around. :) # cd /etc # ls -ls *passwd *pwd.db 7632 -rw------- 1 root wheel 7806209 Aug 27 18:16 master.passwd 5936 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6063368 Aug 27 19:02 passwd 38936 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 41750528 Aug 27 18:58 pwd.db 43752 -rw------- 1 root wheel 73437184 Aug 27 19:02 spwd.db # wc -l passwd 102531 passwd Generating the db files with a pwd_mkdb modifed with cachesize set to 64MB cache took about 45 minutes on a P133 while handling mail and primary DNS (named was occupying about 30MB itself). It was swapping rather heavily, and I think I can get the time to under half an hour on an unloaded system with 128MB of RAM. Now to figure out what we're going to do with NFS's 16-bit uid's and the best way to handle mail for 100,000 users... (replies set to freebsd-chat) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 28 07:07:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA28876 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dympna (dympna.lgc.com [134.132.73.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28871 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dympna (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA25313 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:07:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:07:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Snow X-Sender: rsnow@dympna To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: Another pointless contest... gigantic passwd files? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Brian Tao wrote: > I don't have any FreeBSD servers that have 400-day uptimes > (although our Majordomo server is at 102 days now), but I figure one > of our servers may have the largest passwd file around. :) > > # cd /etc > # ls -ls *passwd *pwd.db > 7632 -rw------- 1 root wheel 7806209 Aug 27 18:16 master.passwd > 5936 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6063368 Aug 27 19:02 passwd > 38936 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 41750528 Aug 27 18:58 pwd.db > 43752 -rw------- 1 root wheel 73437184 Aug 27 19:02 spwd.db > > # wc -l passwd > 102531 passwd Wow! Well I guess we all knew what a dangerous combination a scanner, OCR software and a phone book were... :-) BTW, what's my account name and passwd? :-) -Rob > [SNIP] > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) > Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 28 10:09:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA14057 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA14049 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA05363; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:05:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: C Matthew Curtin cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: San Jose Merc Story In-Reply-To: <199608271251.IAA05374@goffette.research.megasoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, C Matthew Curtin wrote: > >>>>> "A" == Annelise Anderson writes: > > A> It would seem that Janet has an opportunity for a follow-up story > A> here. > > Is there an email address by which she can be contacted for a bit more > enlightenment? :-) I don't have an e-mail address; I called the SJ Merc in the 408 area code and she returned my call. I'm not in the Bay Area right now so can't give you the number. She was not entirely happy with the story she had written and had had a busy week, including learning from scratch about Unix....she seemed interested in varieties of Unix that run on even relatively low-end Intel hardware and are free. I gave her Jordan Hubbard's e-mail address in case she wanted to follow up. So I don't think she's mind hearing from you. Annelise > > -- > C Matthew Curtin MEGASOFT, LLC Chief Scientist > I speak only for myself. Don't whine to anyone but me about anything I say. > Hacker Security Firewall Crypto PGP Privacy Unix Perl Java Internet Intranet > cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com http://research.megasoft.com/people/cmcurtin/ > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 28 14:50:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00944 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00916 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous216.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.216]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA03709; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 23:30:27 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA00619; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 22:44:51 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 22:44:51 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199608282044.WAA00619@campa.panke.de> To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L , Brian Tao Subject: Another pointless contest... gigantic passwd files? In-Reply-To: References: Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao writes: ># wc -l passwd > 102531 passwd > > Generating the db files with a pwd_mkdb modifed with cachesize set >to 64MB cache took about 45 minutes on a P133 while handling mail and >primary DNS (named was occupying about 30MB itself). It was swapping >rather heavily, and I think I can get the time to under half an hour >on an unloaded system with 128MB of RAM. > > Now to figure out what we're going to do with NFS's 16-bit uid's >and the best way to handle mail for 100,000 users... How big is your /var/mail? From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 28 16:11:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA06770 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06758 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06478; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:10:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Wolfram Schneider cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: Another pointless contest... gigantic passwd files? In-Reply-To: <199608282044.WAA00619@campa.panke.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > > How big is your /var/mail? Only 350MB right now, with 4997 mailboxes. These particular users seem to keep relatively little mail on the server. The mail server for Internex Online has 7533 mailboxes, but occupying 1.6GB. If I go by those numbers, 100,000 users will require some 20GB of mail spool. I'm going to play with procmail as a local delivery agent next, with the mail spool split across multiple filesystems. :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 28 19:33:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA03679 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pop01.ny.us.ibm.net (pop01.ny.us.ibm.net [165.87.194.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03669 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by pop01.ny.us.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA27097; Thu, 29 Aug 1996 02:33:41 GMT Message-Id: <199608290233.CAA27097@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 22:31:24 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.52 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Why no umask in dot-profile? Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was looking at the the "dot" which are used as the basis for the files which get copied when a new user is created and noticed that the "dot-profile" did not have umask. Isn't this an advisable security measure? From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 29 05:28:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA05658 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 29 Aug 1996 05:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA05646 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 1996 05:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous234.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.234]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04258; Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:04:42 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00775; Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:29:13 +0200 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:29:13 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199608291129.NAA00775@campa.panke.de> To: "Francisco Reyes" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Subject: Why no umask in dot-profile? In-Reply-To: <199608290233.CAA27097@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net> References: <199608290233.CAA27097@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Francisco Reyes writes: >I was looking at the the "dot" which are used as the basis for the >files which get copied when a new user is created and noticed that >the "dot-profile" did not have umask. Isn't this an advisable >security measure? The default umask is 022. No risk. /usr/include/sys/param.h: #define CMASK 022 /* default file mask: S_IWGRP|S_IWOTH */ man 2 umask The default mask value is S_IWGRP|S_IWOTH (022, write access for the own- er only). Child processes inherit the mask of the calling process. Wolfram From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 30 12:46:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15977 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com (dub-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15972 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA06994; Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:45:53 -0400 Date: 30 Aug 96 15:43:29 EDT From: Jan Knepper <106030.3360@CompuServe.COM> To: "[FreeBSD chat]" Subject: Microsoft Panhandling Message-ID: <960830194328_106030.3360_JHF78-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Redmond, WA -- Microsoft Corporation chair, CEO and all-around babe magnet Bill Gates announced yesterday the introduction of a new product for Windows 95: Microsoft Panhandling. "The idea came to me the other day when a homeless man asked me for money,"recalls Gates. "I suddenly realized that we were missing a golden opportunity. Here was a chance to make a profit without any initial monetary investment. Naturally, this man then became my competition, so I had my limo driver run over him several times." Microsoft engineers have been working around the clock to complete Gates' vision of panhandling for the 21st century. "We feel that our program designers really understand how the poor and needy situation works," says Microsoft Homeless product leader Bernard Liu. "Except for the fact that they're stinking rich." Microsoft Panhandling will be automatically installed with Windows 95. At random intervals, a dialog box pops up, asking the user if they could spare any change so that Microsoft has enough money to get a hot meal. ("This is a little lie," admits software engineer Adam Miller, "since our diet consists of Coke and Twinkies, but what panhandler doesn't embellish a little?") The user can click Yes, in which case a random amount of change between $.05 and $142.50 is transferred from the user's bank account to Microsoft's. The user can also respond No, in which case the program politely tells the user to have a nice day. The "No" button has not yet been implemented. "We're experiencing a little trouble programming the No button," Bernard Liu says, "but we should definitely have it up and running within the next couple of years. Or at least by the time Windows 2014 comes out. Maybe." Gates says this is just the start of an entire line of products. "Be on the lookout for products like Microsoft Mugging, which either takes $50 or erases your hard drive, and Microsoft Squegee Guy, which will clean up your Windows for a dollar." (When Microsoft Squegee Guy ships, Windows 95 will no longer automatically refresh your windows.) But there are competitors on the horizon. Sun Microsystems and Oracle Corporation are introducing panhandling products of their own. "Gates is a few tacos short of a combination platter, if you get my drift," says Oracle Head Honcho and 3rd degree black belt Larry Ellison. "I mean, in the future, we won't need laptop computers asking you for change. You'll have an entire network of machines asking you for money." Gates responded with, "I know what you are, but what am I?" General pandemonium then ensued. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 31 12:35:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA07288 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA07278 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:35:01 -0700 (PDT) From: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA29072; Sat, 31 Aug 1996 15:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA24098; Sat, 31 Aug 1996 15:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 15:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199608311936.PAA24098@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> X-Mailer: slnr v.2.13 as ported to FreeBSD To: 106030.3360@compuserve.com cc: "[FreeBSD chat]" Subject: Re: Microsoft Panhandling Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In Email, Jan Knepper <106030.3360@compuserve.com> wrote: > > Gates responded with, "I know what you are, but what am I?" > General pandemonium then ensued. Ummm... Where I come from, this usually goes "I know you are but what am I!?". NOTE specifically the ommission of the comman and the inclusion of the exclamation mark. ;) -- -- tIM...HOEk The opinions expressed above are mine, and if my employer shares them, that's his hard luck.