From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 13 01:32:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA21166 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21147; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id BAA29432; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:32:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "David E. O'Brien" Message-Id: <199610130832.BAA29432@relay.nuxi.com> Subject: Sad state of afairs for US ftp mirrors To: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD misc chating list) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Somebody please tell me I'm missing something here. At Ollivier's suggestion, I wanted to get FreeBSD-current/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/contrib/* No problem I think -- just ftp it from wcarchive. But it was refusing incoming connections (421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection) (seems to be doing this a lot lately). So I figure I'll just get it from a mirror site. Using ncftp ftpX.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs, where X={1,2,3,4,5,6} (the USA mirrors) this is what I found: ftp2 (phoenix) -- doesn't allow get foo.tar.gz AND has all empty directories ftp3 (neosoft) -- has all empty directories ftp4 (kryten.atinc.com) -- no such file ftp5 (uncc) -- no such file ftp6 (vt.edu) -- perfect!!! (of course my alma-matta would be good :-)) Now I really appreciate Jordan's recent message about getting the mirror sites path standard with wcarchive. I'd love to use a mirror site to reduce the load on wcarchive. But, not if it is going to be this hard. -- David (obrien@cs.ucdavis.edu) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 13 02:06:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA22914 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA22905 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vCMTU-000QnTC; Sun, 13 Oct 96 10:04 MET From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA00551; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:57:25 +0200 Message-Id: <199610130857.KAA00551@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: CT Magazine 11/96 - Unix For Free To: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:57:25 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) In-Reply-To: <199610112346.TAA13834@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Oct 11, 96 07:46:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill/Carolyn Pechter writes: > >> c't, on the other hand, is one of my favourite magazines, one of the >> exceptions to the rule that no there are no good computer magazines in >> Germany I'm very much looking forward to the report. >> >> Greg >> > > Are there any good ones left in the US? I've gone back to Byte (since > almost all the good hobby type hacker mags bit the dust here). Anything > with PC in the title in the US isn't worth reading. Good question. Not completely coincidentally, I stopped my subscription to Byte when I discovered c't (about 10 years ago). I still look at it from time to time, but it doesn't have the in-depth stuff that it used to have, and that c't still has (want to know the different, undocumented ways to access the Pentium cache? Read it in c't). Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 13 02:48:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA24684 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA24654; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA16492; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 19:47:43 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199610130947.TAA16492@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: Sad state of afairs for US ftp mirrors To: obrien@Nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu (David E. O'Brien) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 19:47:42 +1000 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199610130832.BAA29432@relay.nuxi.com> from "David E. O'Brien" at Oct 13, 96 01:32:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Somebody please tell me I'm missing something here. > >At Ollivier's suggestion, I wanted to get >FreeBSD-current/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/contrib/* > >No problem I think -- just ftp it from wcarchive. But it was refusing >incoming connections (421 Service not available, remote server has closed >connection) (seems to be doing this a lot lately). So I figure I'll just >get it from a mirror site. Using ncftp >ftpX.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs, where >X={1,2,3,4,5,6} (the USA mirrors) this is what I found: > >ftp2 (phoenix) -- doesn't allow get foo.tar.gz AND has all empty > directories >ftp3 (neosoft) -- has all empty directories >ftp4 (kryten.atinc.com) -- no such file >ftp5 (uncc) -- no such file >ftp6 (vt.edu) -- perfect!!! (of course my alma-matta would be good :-)) I don't know if it is as it should be or not, but in the current source tree on freefall, most of those directories are nearly empty too. David From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 13 03:19:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA26832 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA26804; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA08396; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 19:49:20 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199610131019.TAA08396@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Sad state of afairs for US ftp mirrors To: dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 19:49:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: obrien@Nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu, FreeBSD-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610130947.TAA16492@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> from "David Dawes" at Oct 13, 96 07:47:42 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Dawes stands accused of saying: > > > >No problem I think -- just ftp it from wcarchive. But it was refusing > >incoming connections (421 Service not available, remote server has closed > >connection) (seems to be doing this a lot lately). So I figure I'll just This is likely to be a network problem between you & wcarchive rather than wcarchive itself. I certainly haven't had any problems with it of late, and I probably hit it ~10 times a day from various directions (aust, canda, europe, japan). > >get it from a mirror site. Using ncftp > >ftpX.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs, where There is nothing much in this directory. CVS has been moved out to the contrib tree where it belongs. If you want the contrib segment out of the CVS distribution, it's in src/contrib/cvs/contrib. > I don't know if it is as it should be or not, but in the current source > tree on freefall, most of those directories are nearly empty too. This is correct. See the discussion on -current/hackers some months back about the contrib/ tree and policy for moving third-party components there. > David -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 13 03:33:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA27762 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA27732; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA02667; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610131032.DAA02667@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "David E. O'Brien" cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD misc chating list), freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sad state of afairs for US ftp mirrors In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:32:39 PDT." <199610130832.BAA29432@relay.nuxi.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:32:37 -0700 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >No problem I think -- just ftp it from wcarchive. But it was refusing >incoming connections (421 Service not available, remote server has closed >connection) (seems to be doing this a lot lately). This is/was caused by a failing disk causing processes to deadlock until enough of them pile up that the system runs out of swap space. It will get fixed on Monday. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 13 09:24:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23334 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23325 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA15468 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:23:42 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id SAA25581 for FreeBSD-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:24:10 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.0/keltia-uucp-2.9) id SAA07743; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:18:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610131618.SAA07743@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:18:03 +0200 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: FreeBSD-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sad state of afairs for US ftp mirrors In-Reply-To: <199610131019.TAA08396@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Oct 13, 1996 19:49:20 +0930 References: <199610130947.TAA16492@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> <199610131019.TAA08396@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.47.09 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2564 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Michael Smith: > the contrib tree where it belongs. If you want the contrib segment > out of the CVS distribution, it's in src/contrib/cvs/contrib. easy-import.pl (the file David wanted) is not in contrib/cvs because it is a FreeBSD addition so it is in src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/contrib... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #24: Thu Oct 10 19:35:39 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 13 10:55:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA28131 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28125 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) id NAA00980 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:55:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199610131755.NAA00980@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Remote Annex Software To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:55:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just as a FYI, the Remote Annex software explicitly supports FreeBSD, nice to see FreeBSD in the list, and not Linux :) Now if they only produced the cool GUI for FreeBSD as well. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 13 11:46:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00353 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 11:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00342; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 11:46:17 -0700 (PDT) From: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09826; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA20786; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199610131848.OAA20786@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> X-Mailer: slnr v.2.13 as ported to FreeBSD To: obrien@Nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu cc: freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD misc chating list) Subject: Re: Sad state of afairs for US ftp mirrors Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In Email, "David E. O'Brien" wrote: > > ftpX.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs, where > X={1,2,3,4,5,6} (the USA mirrors) this is what I found: Add to this ftp.ca.freebsd.org, which has for a long time not had the FreeBSD stuff available. It was actually mentioned in one of the lists a long time ago, but nothing happened -- ftp.ca.freebsd.org is still listed as the ftpsite to use when installing FreeBSD in Canada. -- -- tIM...HOEk The opinions expressed above are mine, and if my employer shares them, that's his hard luck. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Oct 14 22:24:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA29333 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA29254; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crunch.io.org (crunch.io.org [198.133.36.156]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA00316; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:23:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca cc: obrien@Nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu, freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD misc chating list Subject: Re: Sad state of afairs for US ftp mirrors In-Reply-To: <199610131848.OAA20786@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Oct 1996 hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca wrote: > > Add to this ftp.ca.freebsd.org, which has for a long time not had the > FreeBSD stuff available. I have a mirror at ftp.io.org:/pub/mirrors/freebsd, if anyone wants to use it. I don't make any guarantees on its completeness or timeliness, but it works well enough for me to use whenever an install is needed. I don't mirror the FreeBSD-CVS stuff, but the latest snapshots, -stable and -current should all be up to date. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Oct 14 22:45:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA00878 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA00866 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA19811 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:15:26 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199610150545.PAA19811@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: rdist chuckle To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:15:25 +0930 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk cain# rdist -R -f src-rdist updating host spore updating: /local1/2.2.0-CURRENT/src/Makefile removed /usr/src/contrib/.dont_remove *snort* -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Oct 14 23:31:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA04468 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nemesis.acronet.net (nelson@nemesis.acronet.net [207.7.26.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA04460 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nelson@localhost) by nemesis.acronet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA29200 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:30:09 -0500 From: Jeremy Nelson Message-Id: <199610150630.BAA29200@nemesis.acronet.net> Subject: Exportability of MD5, general case To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:30:08 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (I sent this question to this list, because i know this list is for generally off-topic discussions, and this didnt seem to be appropriate to any other list. Thanks.) I know that FreeBSD uses MD5 because it can be exported, but I am not 100% sure to what extent MD5 can be used and still be exported. To describe my situation, I am working with a program (irc client), that traditionally has used an XOR-with-ascii-text algorithm for encryption. It hasnt been represented as anything other than being nominally secure (it would be too much hassle to decrypt it on the fly, given the neature of irc). My idea was to use MD5, to generate a 128-bit hash value (much like what PGP does) out of the ascii-text password, and then do the XOR encryption with that 128-bit value. My question is, is the legality of exporting MD5 limited only to how one uses MD5 or is it legal to do anything with the value returned by the MD5 functions? Would my idea be illegal to export? Or is the XOR encryption algorithm fundamentally insecure (which is not a big problem, im only looking for a nominal increase in security, not a massive increase), that the government doesnt consider it to be dangerous? Thanks for any advice you might offer. Jeremy Nelson From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 04:04:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA26183 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gauss.mat.ufpr.br (trovon@[200.17.209.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA26156 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from trovon@localhost) by gauss.mat.ufpr.br (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA14821 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:04:57 -0400 From: Alexandre Luis Trovon de Carvalho Message-Id: <199610150104.VAA14821@gauss.mat.ufpr.br> Subject: unsubscribe To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:04:57 -0400 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 04:05:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA26250 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gauss.mat.ufpr.br (trovon@[200.17.209.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA26224 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from trovon@localhost) by gauss.mat.ufpr.br (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA14832 for chat@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:05:33 -0400 From: Alexandre Luis Trovon de Carvalho Message-Id: <199610150105.VAA14832@gauss.mat.ufpr.br> Subject: unsubscribe To: chat@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:05:33 -0400 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 04:33:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA29217 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (pm1-02.wmbg.widomaker.com [206.161.154.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA29199 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (localhost.hq.ferg.com [127.0.0.1]) by toth.hq.ferg.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05398; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:32:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Branson Matheson X-Sender: branson@toth.hq.ferg.com To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu cc: Christopher Taylor , Chat Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Moved to freebsd-chat ] On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Doug White wrote: > On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Christopher Taylor wrote: > > > I am starting to get customers wanting login names longer than 8 > > characters. I edited /usr/include/utmp.h, to accomodate 16 character > > login names, and I recompiled everything. Now 'chown' is balking at me. > > Are there any faq's out there to walk me through changing the limit to 16 > > characters? If so, please send me the URL. TIA.... > > This IS a FAQ. But it's not IN the FAQ. :-/ > > You don't want to do this. Things break, and in addition to changing > utmp.h, you have to recompile *everything* ('make world' style). GRRRRR... Here we go again... instead of saying there is too much the will need to be fixed to make this available... lets say, what is broken, chmod in this case, fix it and apply a change to the source tree. This question will CONTINUE to come up as more and more people use our product. We should not alienate those who want this feature just because it will break things.. lets fix the problem. -branson ============================================================================= Branson Matheson | Ferguson Enterprises | If Pete and Repeat were System Administrator | W: (804) 874-7795 | sittin on a fence and Pete Unix, Perl, WWW | branson@widomaker.com | fell off, who is left? From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 05:52:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA05800 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 05:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA05790 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 05:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.7.6/8.7.5) id IAA25479; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199610151252.IAA25479@nimbus.superior.net> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:51:59 -0400 From: exidor@nimbus.superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: nelson@acronet.net (Jeremy Nelson) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Exportability of MD5, general case In-Reply-To: <199610150630.BAA29200@nemesis.acronet.net>; from Jeremy Nelson on Oct 15, 1996 01:30:08 -0500 References: <199610150630.BAA29200@nemesis.acronet.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeremy Nelson writes: > My question is, is the legality of exporting MD5 limited only to how > one uses MD5 or is it legal to do anything with the value returned by > the MD5 functions? Would my idea be illegal to export? Or is the > XOR encryption algorithm fundamentally insecure (which is not a big > problem, im only looking for a nominal increase in security, not a > massive increase), that the government doesnt consider it to be dangerous? That's not even a 'nominal' increase; breaking XOR is trivial and doesn't require guessing the key. -- / Christopher Masto \ / Superior Net Services \ / Your vote counts \ | exidor@superior.net | | $24.95/month unlimited use | | Support free speech | \ Programmer/Tech / \ http://www.superior.net/ / \ HappyNet for all / From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 06:04:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA06536 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA06510 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.7.6/8.7.5) id JAA25774; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199610151303.JAA25774@nimbus.superior.net> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:03:24 -0400 From: exidor@nimbus.superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org (Chat) Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: ; from Branson Matheson on Oct 15, 1996 07:32:23 -0400 References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Branson Matheson writes: > GRRRRR... Here we go again... instead of saying there is too much the > will need to be fixed to make this available... lets say, what is > broken, chmod in this case, fix it and apply a change to the source > tree. This question will CONTINUE to come up as more and more people > use our product. We should not alienate those who want this feature > just because it will break things.. lets fix the problem. It will break things every day for the rest of your life. It can't be "fixed" unless you think you can track down every Unix program someone might want to use that tries to stick a user name in an 8-character space. -- / Christopher Masto \ / Superior Net Services \ / Your vote counts \ | exidor@superior.net | | $24.95/month unlimited use | | Support free speech | \ Programmer/Tech / \ http://www.superior.net/ / \ HappyNet for all / From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 06:52:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA09736 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA09730; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:52:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199610151352.GAA09730@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! To: exidor@nimbus.superior.net (Christopher Masto) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199610151303.JAA25774@nimbus.superior.net> from "Christopher Masto" at Oct 15, 96 09:03:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christopher Masto wrote: > > Branson Matheson writes: > > GRRRRR... Here we go again... instead of saying there is too much the > > will need to be fixed to make this available... lets say, what is > > broken, chmod in this case, fix it and apply a change to the source > > tree. This question will CONTINUE to come up as more and more people > > use our product. We should not alienate those who want this feature > > just because it will break things.. lets fix the problem. > > It will break things every day for the rest of your life. It can't be > "fixed" unless you think you can track down every Unix program someone > might want to use that tries to stick a user name in an 8-character > space. GROSS HACK ALERT 8-character programs must have login names limited to 8-character. the login name must be unique in the first 8-characters add an arg to the end of the system calls a pointer to a string, the longer login name, if any goes there. any program that works now will continue to work any program that has been modifid to use longer login names can do so. (ughhhhhh.) anonymous ;) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 07:15:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA11213 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (pm1-02.wmbg.widomaker.com [206.161.154.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA11208 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (localhost.hq.ferg.com [127.0.0.1]) by toth.hq.ferg.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05937; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:14:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Branson Matheson X-Sender: branson@toth.hq.ferg.com To: Christopher Masto cc: Chat Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: <199610151303.JAA25774@nimbus.superior.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Christopher Masto wrote: > Branson Matheson writes: > > use our product. We should not alienate those who want this feature > > just because it will break things.. lets fix the problem. > It will break things every day for the rest of your life. It can't be > "fixed" unless you think you can track down every Unix program someone > might want to use that tries to stick a user name in an 8-character > space. Amazing... BSDI was able to do it... and they work from some of the same source as we do... If they can do it ... so can we. ============================================================================= Branson Matheson | Ferguson Enterprises | If Pete and Repeat were System Administrator | W: (804) 874-7795 | sittin on a fence and Pete Unix, Perl, WWW | branson@widomaker.com | fell off, who is left? From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 07:57:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA13325 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13320 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA23252 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA01835; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:43:56 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:43:56 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Christopher Masto , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: <199610151352.GAA09730@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Christopher Masto wrote: > > > > Branson Matheson writes: > > > GRRRRR... Here we go again... instead of saying there is too much the > > > will need to be fixed to make this available... lets say, what is > > > broken, chmod in this case, fix it and apply a change to the source > > > tree. This question will CONTINUE to come up as more and more people > > > use our product. We should not alienate those who want this feature > > > just because it will break things.. lets fix the problem. > > > > It will break things every day for the rest of your life. It can't be > > "fixed" unless you think you can track down every Unix program someone > > might want to use that tries to stick a user name in an 8-character > > space. > > GROSS HACK ALERT > > 8-character programs must have login names limited to 8-character. > the login name must be unique in the first 8-characters > add an arg to the end of the system calls > a pointer to a string, the longer login name, if any goes there. > any program that works now will continue to work > any program that has been modifid to use longer login names > can do so. There are only one kind of 8-character programs - the programs written by commercial software houses not releasing their source. In all other cases it can be fixed by #if defined(FreeBSD) && defined (LONG_LOGINNAMES) Sander > > (ughhhhhh.) > > anonymous ;) > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 08:16:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA14206 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gauss.mat.ufpr.br (trovon@[200.17.209.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14182 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from trovon@localhost) by gauss.mat.ufpr.br (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA00187 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:15:39 -0400 From: Alexandre Luis Trovon de Carvalho Message-Id: <199610150515.BAA00187@gauss.mat.ufpr.br> Subject: unsubscribe To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:15:38 -0400 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 08:23:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA14450 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gauss.mat.ufpr.br (trovon@[200.17.209.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14255 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from trovon@localhost) by gauss.mat.ufpr.br (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA00228 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:17:57 -0400 From: Alexandre Luis Trovon de Carvalho Message-Id: <199610150517.BAA00228@gauss.mat.ufpr.br> Subject: unsubscribe To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:17:57 -0400 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 08:45:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA15391 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA15386 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id JAA17791; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.ampr.ab.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11037; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:39:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@alive.ampr.ab.ca To: Christopher Masto cc: Chat Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: <199610151303.JAA25774@nimbus.superior.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Christopher Masto wrote: > Branson Matheson writes: > > GRRRRR... Here we go again... instead of saying there is too much the > > will need to be fixed to make this available... lets say, what is > > broken, chmod in this case, fix it and apply a change to the source > > tree. This question will CONTINUE to come up as more and more people > > use our product. We should not alienate those who want this feature > > just because it will break things.. lets fix the problem. > > It will break things every day for the rest of your life. It can't be > "fixed" unless you think you can track down every Unix program someone > might want to use that tries to stick a user name in an 8-character > space. Long usernames work fine under BSD/OS 2.x. There are a good number of other Unixes that they work fine under too. On those systems, I seldom have a problem when compiling source due to >8 char login names. I'm not sure the problem is as big as people make it out to be. The biggest complication I can think of is making everything work (or at least not break too badly) with NIS. At the very least I think it would be a good thing to move in the direction of having the userland stuff look pretty with long usernames (eg. perhaps have w truncate it to 8 chars since there is already too much there, have who give the full name since there is lots of space, etc.). From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 09:37:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18164 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18107 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id KAA20554; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:35:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.ampr.ab.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11145; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:54:06 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:54:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@alive.ampr.ab.ca To: Narvi cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Narvi wrote: > > GROSS HACK ALERT > > > > 8-character programs must have login names limited to 8-character. > > the login name must be unique in the first 8-characters > > add an arg to the end of the system calls > > a pointer to a string, the longer login name, if any goes there. > > any program that works now will continue to work > > any program that has been modifid to use longer login names > > can do so. > > There are only one kind of 8-character programs - the programs written by > commercial software houses not releasing their source. In all other cases > it can be fixed by #if defined(FreeBSD) && defined (LONG_LOGINNAMES) No, in all other cases it can be defined by looking at an existing define, most likely UT_NAMESIZE. No need to do any FreeBSD specific defines since the problem (and solution) isn't FreeBSD specific. For the commercial software w/o source perspective, most of the companise that write for FreeBSD specifically should be nice enough to change their program. Most of the others either fall into the BSD/OS category, where they need to handle long usernames anyway, or the Linux catagory where... umm... it looks like most distributions have an 8 char limit, but there may well be some that don't. From a Redhat 3.x utmp.h: /* size of user name */ #if 1 #define UT_LINESIZE 12 #define UT_NAMESIZE 8 #define UT_HOSTSIZE 16 #else #define UT_LINESIZE 16 #define UT_NAMESIZE 16 #define UT_HOSTSIZE 256 #endif Looks like they are perhaps toying with it but there is something holding them back. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 12:04:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00606 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA00600 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA00339; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu To: Branson Matheson cc: Christopher Taylor , Chat Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Branson Matheson wrote: > > > I am starting to get customers wanting login names longer than 8 > > > characters. > > This IS a FAQ. But it's not IN the FAQ. :-/ > > > > You don't want to do this. Things break, and in addition to changing > > utmp.h, you have to recompile *everything* ('make world' style). > > GRRRRR... Here we go again... instead of saying there is too much the > will need to be fixed to make this available... lets say, what is > broken, chmod in this case, fix it and apply a change to the source > tree. This question will CONTINUE to come up as more and more people > use our product. We should not alienate those who want this feature > just because it will break things.. lets fix the problem. Then let's build a doc on how to do this. 1. What does doing this BREAK? - NIS 1. What files do we need to modify? - /usr/include/utmp.h - login - chmod - chown - more? 2. What do we change? - utmp: UT_NAMESIZE - login: ? 3. Now what? - rebuild everything ('make world') and the kernel. I know I missed something. I was looking through the archives and found that the above programs needed modification. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 12:38:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03081 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03076 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA23774 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.7.6/8.7.5) id PAA07314; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199610151936.PAA07314@nimbus.superior.net> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:36:21 -0400 From: exidor@nimbus.superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: ; from Marc Slemko on Oct 15, 1996 09:54:05 -0600 References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marc Slemko writes: > No, in all other cases it can be defined by looking at an existing define, > most likely UT_NAMESIZE. No need to do any FreeBSD specific defines since > the problem (and solution) isn't FreeBSD specific. Which means a lot of stuff won't built "out of the box". Sure, I can track down the buffer a program is trying to strcpy() a user name into, but a lot of people don't have the knowledge, desire, or resources do to that. They'll get the impression that FreeBSD is difficult to port to, and they'll end up using Linux. If someone wants longer user names and is willing to be the guinea pig system, they can change those "couple of lines" and see what breaks. But I think there are more important things for the FreeBSD team to be working on. -- / Christopher Masto \ / Superior Net Services \ / Your vote counts \ | exidor@superior.net | | $24.95/month unlimited use | | Support free speech | \ Programmer/Tech / \ http://www.superior.net/ / \ HappyNet for all / From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 13:30:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06322 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06311 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA23822 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA10094; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:20:48 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA14848; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:20:48 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) id WAA13032; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:07:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610152007.WAA13032@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:07:39 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu, freebsd@trogon.kiwi.net, branson@widomaker.com (Branson Matheson) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Branson Matheson at "Oct 15, 96 07:32:23 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Branson Matheson wrote: > > You don't want to do this. Things break, and in addition to changing > > utmp.h, you have to recompile *everything* ('make world' style). > > GRRRRR... Here we go again... instead of saying there is too much the > will need to be fixed to make this available... lets say, what is > broken, chmod in this case, fix it and apply a change to the source > tree. The problem is, that ``fixing the problem'' will break interoperab- ility via NIS, and backwards compatibility to old wtmp files (aka. last(1)). That's why it's hard to find a majority of developers who support your opinion. Actually, only very few sites (mostly ISPs) are in a need for the change. Right now, our wtmp files are backwards compatible most likely even to 386BSD 0.1, but at least (as i know for sure) to FreeBSD 1.1.5.1. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 13:52:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07908 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07783 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA11158 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:51:17 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA15390 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:51:17 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) id WAA13534 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:37:41 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610152037.WAA13534@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:37:41 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Doug White at "Oct 15, 96 12:04:19 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Doug White wrote: > Then let's build a doc on how to do this. > > 1. What does doing this BREAK? > - NIS last(1). You gotta throw away your old wtmp files, or leave the old last command as olast, or gotta build a tool that converts the wtmp files. Yep, i know a machine that's got wtmp files back some years ago (i believe). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 15:24:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA13089 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13009 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA07324; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25129; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:24:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:24:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Joerg Wunsch cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: <199610152037.WAA13534@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Doug White wrote: > > > Then let's build a doc on how to do this. > > > > 1. What does doing this BREAK? > > - NIS > > last(1). You gotta throw away your old wtmp files, or leave the old > last command as olast, or gotta build a tool that converts the wtmp > files. Of course, the longer one sticks with the current format, the more wtmp files would be made unreadable by some future change... ;) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 16:48:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA18764 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from citecuh.citec.qld.gov.au (citecuh.citec.qld.gov.au [203.5.10.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18753 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by citecuh.citec.qld.gov.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA01540 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:48:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from avalon.qdot.qld.gov.au(131.242.192.12) by citecuh.citec.qld.gov.au via smap (V1.3) id /mail/incoming/sma001525; Wed Oct 16 09:47:58 1996 Received: from osimp58 by avalon (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA16856; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:52:55 +1000 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:52:55 +1000 Message-Id: <199610152352.JAA16856@avalon> X-Sender: cwgofto@avalon.qdot.qld.gov.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: chat@freebsd.org From: cwgofto@qdot.qld.gov.au (Chris Gofton) Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk __\/__ . / _^^_ \ . |\| (o)(o) |/| #-------------oOOOo---&&---oOOOo-------------------------------------------# #---------------------------------Chris Gofton ----------------------------# #---------------------------------UNIX Support ----------------------------# #---------------------------------Queensland Transport --------------------# #---------------------------------E-Mail: cwgofto@qdot.qld.gov.au ---------# #--------------------------------------------------------------------------# #_________________________Oooo.____________________________________________# .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 17:07:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA19757 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA19737 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous233.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.233]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA25496; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:55:39 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA02573; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:28:32 +0200 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:28:32 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199610152328.BAA02573@campa.panke.de> To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Cc: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey), freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CT Magazine 11/96 - Unix For Free In-Reply-To: <199610112346.TAA13834@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199610111037.MAA29874@allegro.lemis.de> <199610112346.TAA13834@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk pechter@shell.monmouth.com writes: >Are there any good ones left in the US? I've gone back to Byte (since >almost all the good hobby type hacker mags bit the dust here). Anything >with PC in the title in the US isn't worth reading. SunExpert. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 18:15:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA23700 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23695; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA14778; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:15:29 -0700 (PDT) To: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) cc: andreas@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/archivers/bzip Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:54:28 PDT." <199610160054.RAA18690@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:15:29 -0700 Message-ID: <14776.845428529@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * Satoshi, the loard of the ports collection spoke: > > What's a "loard"? :) An old-english contraction. In former times, when the king was observed by his courtiers to be gaining an unhealthy amount of weight, he was jokingly (but not unkindly) referred to as "his lardship." Eventually this would get back to the ears of the king and, if he was a wise king, he'd instruct the royal cook to go a little easier on the roast oxen and maybe serve a healthier side of brussel sprouts from time to time (but not too often). A long succession of corpulent british kings in the 1300's saw this eventually shortened to simply "my lard" when addressing the king informally and it became just one word, spelled "loard" since just "lard" in this context would be ambiguous - you might genuinely be talking about congealed cooking oil, as in "Heateth thou this lard and poureth it from the battlements onto the assembled peasants below so that their wretched lamenting shall cease to disturb my afternoon repose." You definitely wouldn't want to get the two meanings mixed up. As a mark of their independence, the Scots also spell this "laird" and claim for it a wholly different meaning, but don't let them deceive you. Mutton is fattening, period. So, perhaps Andreas was simply trying to politely suggest that maybe you should switch to diet coke for awhile? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 21:32:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA06383 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06365 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA22098 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:32:09 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id GAA05380 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 06:31:28 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.0/keltia-uucp-2.9) id AAA09242; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:40:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610152240.AAA09242@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:40:44 +0200 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 8 character login limit?! In-Reply-To: <199610152037.WAA13534@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Oct 15, 1996 22:37:41 +0200 References: <199610152037.WAA13534@uriah.heep.sax.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.47.13 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2584 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to J Wunsch: > Yep, i know a machine that's got wtmp files back some years ago (i > believe). I still have a wtmp.old that started when I put 386BSD 0.1 pl0.1.2 on my computer on 9th March, 1993... :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #25: Tue Oct 15 21:13:57 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 21:55:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA08091 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (slc97.modem.xmission.com [204.228.136.97]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA08081; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA00264; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199610160455.WAA00264@obie.softweyr.com> From: Wes Peters To: Wolfram Schneider CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CT Magazine 11/96 - Unix For Free In-Reply-To: <199610152328.BAA02573@campa.panke.de> References: <199610111037.MAA29874@allegro.lemis.de> <199610112346.TAA13834@shell.monmouth.com> <199610152328.BAA02573@campa.panke.de> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Pechter lamented: % Are there any good ones left in the US? I've gone back to Byte (since % almost all the good hobby type hacker mags bit the dust here). Anything % with PC in the title in the US isn't worth reading. Wolfram Schneider writes: > SunExpert. I concur. Perhaps anything with "Sun" in the title might be? Of course, these are the same people who publish RS/Magazine, which is a worthless rag IMHO. -- Wes Peters | Softweyr LLC | Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? softweyr@ | xmission.com | From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 15 23:38:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13924 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 23:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13919; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 23:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id IAA22528; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:16:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00534; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:02:05 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:02:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Satoshi Asami , andreas@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/archivers/bzip Makefile In-Reply-To: <14776.845428529@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > * Satoshi, the loard of the ports collection spoke: > > > > What's a "loard"? :) Huh ;-)) Typical around 12pm misspelling ;-)) > So, perhaps Andreas was simply trying to politely suggest that maybe > you should switch to diet coke for awhile? Diet coke ?! Say NO ! ;-)) __ andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 16 13:56:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05047 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lib.amu.edu.pl (bogusz@lib.amu.edu.pl [150.254.100.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05042 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bogusz@localhost) by lib.amu.edu.pl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA30740; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:58:35 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:58:35 +0100 (MET) From: Bogusz Jelinski To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: A PostScript editor Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I'd like to write a manual for my software and because it should contain charts, schemas and so on it cannot be an ascii file. Would anyone suggest any up-to-date file format : PostScript, MS Word (forgive my mentioning it), HTML, Acrobat, dvi. As I prefer PostScript I am looking for a PS-editor - it should generate .ps files. Is there such a tool (not necessarily a free of charge one)? There must be - there are so many docs.ps in the ftp-archives. Cheers, Bogusz From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 16 20:29:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA29017 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA29012 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.8.0/8.7.3) id MAA24977; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 12:58:49 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 12:58:49 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199610170328.MAA24977@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: bogusz@lib.amu.edu.pl (Bogusz Jelinski), freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A PostScript editor X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <543kvl$ikb@al.imforei.apana.org.au> you wrote: : Hi! Gday : I'd like to write a manual for my software and because : it should contain charts, schemas and so on it cannot : be an ascii file. Would anyone suggest any up-to-date [cut] LaTeX always worked well for me. I've produced a nice 80 page document packed with diagrams and equations with no-where near the frustration factor of doing likewise with Word. Peter -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object! From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 16 23:09:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA08136 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (daemon@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08131 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id QAA19737 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:08:32 +1000 Received: from pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au by ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.7.5/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id QAA25729 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:14:11 +1000 (EST) Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (orion.devetir.qld.gov.au [167.123.2.2]) by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA04707 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:10:23 +1000 Received: from localhost by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id QAA27614; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:13:37 +1000 Message-Id: <199610170613.QAA27614@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Last farewell to 386BSD Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:13:36 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We have just upgraded our last 386BSD 0.1.24 machine to FreeBSD. It has been plodding along, monitoring machine status, for some years now. It pulled one too many death-by-out-of-swap stunts, and so I applied the FreeBSD 2.1.5 CD. For the nostalgic BSD history types, I note that 386BSD 0.1 dates from July 1992, and that few of the folks in CONTRIB.LIST are known to me, though one is Linus, and 4 of them ended up in the FreeBSD core team. The final (0.1.24) patchkit seems to be from July 1993. Oh! such hazy memories of times when just installing the thing put hair on your chest. /386bsd (the kernel) is from January 1994, so we've been fixing problems using just the reset button for, say, 31 months. Hmm. Slack? Not us! Is there any point to me telling you all this stuff? Well, I want to know if there is any life left in 386BSD. Dr Dobbs keeps advertising the "386BSD Reference CD". Is it good for anything? What do Messrs Jolitz do now? Whatever happened to Jesus Monroy, Jr? Did anybody get any "fairings"? We have to know! Stephen. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 17 02:59:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA20727 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 02:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA20706; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 02:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vDoSJ-000QoFC; Thu, 17 Oct 96 10:09 MET From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA01018; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 11:03:04 +0200 Message-Id: <199610170903.LAA01018@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: ok, look folks To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 11:03:03 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users), chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Chat) In-Reply-To: <199610092041.NAA18678@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 9, 96 01:41:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > >> (4) Save those useful and, apparently, ignored messages from >> majordomo when you subscribe. (Even make a mail-box >> file to keep them in) > > I suggested this before, and I'll suggest it again: > > Each list whould have a monthly "FAQ" posting that goes out automatically; > it would include "how to unsubscribe". Good idea. I think I'll do it. In fact, I've done it, about 2 weeks ago, on -questions ("How to get best results from FreeBSD-questions"; maybe I should change the subject line"). I've certainly learnt some stuff from this exchange, though, and Monday's version should be different again. Comments welcome. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 17 15:54:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA06479 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hill.gnu.ai.mit.edu (hill.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.43]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06458 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hill.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) id SAA14398; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:53:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:53:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199610172253.SAA14398@hill.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: Joel Ray Holveck To: bogusz@lib.amu.edu.pl CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from Bogusz Jelinski on Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:58:35 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: A PostScript editor Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd like to write a manual for my software and because it should contain charts, schemas and so on it cannot be an ascii file. Would anyone suggest any up-to-date file format : PostScript, MS Word (forgive my mentioning it), HTML, Acrobat, dvi. I personally recommend LaTeX (or, for the Real Tech Writers, TeX... and you can use TECO to edit it. :-) ) LaTeX produces excellent output, partially because it's a typesetter, not a WYSIWYG editor. That is to say, you can use emacs, pico, teco, vi, Windows notepad, or whatever you want to type in a file that says what your document is supposed to contain, then run LaTeX over it. LaTeX then produces a DVI file, which can be run through dvi2ps to produce your PostScript output. It produces better output than MS Word or other popular word processors because it can work on the overall pages as a whole, and take its time making decisions. If putting a line break here makes an orphan line down there, then that can be handled. Word processors have to make these decisions real-time, so they don't have the liberty of making as many calculations and decisions. Many of the foo.ps files you see out there were generated using TeX or LaTeX. HTML really isn't suitable for making printed documentation. It is designed for content over presentation because the same HTML document must be readable on everything from ASCII terminals to high-resolution workstations. In producing a manual, you don't need to worry about this, so something with more presentation controil is advisable. The GNU project uses TeXinfo for their documentation. It is designed to be easily converted to TeX or info (a special hypertext format used by emacs). Later on, TeXinfo to HTML converters were designed. However, if the printed page is your concern, I find TeX or LaTeX to be more well-rounded. I haven't dealt with Adobe Acrobat, but I would tend to steer you toward LaTeX instead. It is free software, and because of that it has extentions for every conceivable purpose. As I prefer PostScript I am looking for a PS-editor - it should generate .ps files. Is there such a tool (not necessarily a free of charge one)? There must be - there are so many docs.ps in the ftp-archives. You can actually use any text editor to generate .ps files, but I don't recommend it. Most .ps files are generated by TeX or other tools. Cheers, Joel From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 17 19:14:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA17187 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hits.net (hits.net [204.188.88.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17182 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from graphics.comtest.com by mail.hits.net (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id QAA17606; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:16:11 -1000 Message-Id: <199610180216.QAA17606@mail.hits.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Randal S. Masutani" Organization: ComTest Technologies, Inc. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:13:20 -1000 Subject: email problems? Reply-to: randal@comtest.com X-Confirm-Reading-To: randal@comtest.com X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My ISP provider recently had a email problem and all my email for the last two days got returned to the senders. It has been resolved and my email is working now. But I am no longer receiving the FreeBSD mailings. Do I need to re-subscribe to majordomo again? Thanks, Randal From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 17 19:21:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA17537 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hits.net (hits.net [204.188.88.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17531 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from graphics.comtest.com by mail.hits.net (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id QAA17716; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:23:27 -1000 Message-Id: <199610180223.QAA17716@mail.hits.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Randal S. Masutani" Organization: ComTest Technologies, Inc. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:20:36 -1000 Subject: Re: email problems? Reply-to: randal@comtest.com X-Confirm-Reading-To: randal@comtest.com X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My ISP provider recently had a email problem and all my email for the last two days got returned to the senders. It has been resolved and my email is working now. But I am no longer receiving the FreeBSD mailings. Do I need to re-subscribe to majordomo again? I also missed the FreeBSD mailings for the last two days. Does anyone know how I can get them? Thanks, Randal From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 18 00:48:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA03978 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03969 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vE98X-000QojC; Fri, 18 Oct 96 08:14 MET Received: from allegro.lemis.de (root@allegro.lemis.de [192.109.197.134]) by freebie.lemis.de (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA16049; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:56:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA24784; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:49:48 +0200 Message-Id: <199610180649.IAA24784@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: A PostScript editor To: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Joel Ray Holveck) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:49:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) In-Reply-To: <199610172253.SAA14398@hill.gnu.ai.mit.edu> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Oct 17, 96 06:53:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joel Ray Holveck writes: > > > I'd like to write a manual for my software and because > it should contain charts, schemas and so on it cannot > be an ascii file. Would anyone suggest any up-to-date > file format : PostScript, MS Word (forgive my mentioning > it), HTML, Acrobat, dvi. > > I personally recommend LaTeX (or, for the Real Tech Writers, > TeX... and you can use TECO to edit it. :-) ) LaTeX produces excellent > output, partially because it's a typesetter, not a WYSIWYG editor. > That is to say, you can use emacs, pico, teco, vi, Windows notepad, or > whatever you want to type in a file that says what your document is > supposed to contain, then run LaTeX over it. LaTeX then produces a > DVI file, which can be run through dvi2ps to produce your PostScript > output. It produces better output than MS Word or other popular word > processors because it can work on the overall pages as a whole, and > take its time making decisions. If putting a line break here makes an > orphan line down there, then that can be handled. Word processors > have to make these decisions real-time, so they don't have the liberty > of making as many calculations and decisions. Many of the foo.ps > files you see out there were generated using TeX or LaTeX. I used to use TeX, and showed considerable resistance when O'Reilly asked me to use troff for writing my porting book. I did so, however, and I've been using troff ever since. Nothing (well, nothing simple) could make me go back to TeX. While you're right in what you say above, I always have a problem with documentation formatted by TeX (including LaTeX): it's always immediately recognizable. The layout and, usually, the fonts (cm) are very distinctive, and to my way of thinking not the most pleasant. In addition, I find TeX to be brain-dead. I don't know how much of this applies to LaTeX, but for example identifiers may contain no digits; the sequence \fontsize300 is three tokens: the \, representing that the following token is an identifer (is that the right terminology), and the number 300. To select fonts, you need to name them to things like \twentyfourrm, because \rm24 won't work. I still haven't figured out when to put commands inside braces and when outside: do I write \indent10mm{foo bar} or {\indent10mm foo bar}? troff (well, to be more specific, groff) is much easier to handle, and when you do make a mistake, it at least presents output you can debug. There are a whole lot of other things; in particular, it's easier to produce PostScript--you don't need to go via .dvi; it's easier to use other fonts; it's (barely) easier to read the source files. > You can actually use any text editor to generate .ps files, but I > don't recommend it. Most .ps files are generated by TeX or other > tools. Occasionally it's quite useful to edit PostScript. But it requires an in-depth knowledge of the language to do correctly. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 18 08:06:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA29130 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29122 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA02959; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:05:55 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199610181505.KAA02959@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: SLIP speed To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:05:54 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5934.845650893@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Oct 18, 96 05:01:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Does anybody care to try 300 or 110 baud IP? :-) > > NO! Not again. I have tried that about 40 Mb too much. Are you referring to the speeds you get doing IP across the Atlantic, or did you really do 300 baud IP? :-) :-) :-) Followups to -chat ... JG From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 18 12:09:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16910 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (disn1.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA16898 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06358 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:09:11 +0200 (MET DST) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SLIP speed In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:05:54 CDT." <199610181505.KAA02959@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:09:11 +0200 Message-ID: <6356.845665751@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610181505.KAA02959@brasil.moneng.mei.com>, Joe Greco writes: >> >Does anybody care to try 300 or 110 baud IP? :-) >> >> NO! Not again. I have tried that about 40 Mb too much. > >Are you referring to the speeds you get doing IP across the Atlantic, >or did you really do 300 baud IP? :-) :-) :-) Yes, about 300baud from Mexico and Brazil to Denmark. Avg rate for ftp was about 300 bps :-( CAD drawings for a cement factory if you insist on knowing. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 18 12:24:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17611 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dreamlabs.dreaming.org (root@dreamlabs.dreaming.org [207.107.8.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA17604; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dreamlabs.dreaming.org (mitayai@dreamlabs.dreaming.org [207.107.8.200]) by dreamlabs.dreaming.org (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA06288; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:21:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe To: Brian Tao cc: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca, obrien@Nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org, FreeBSD misc chating list Subject: Re: Sad state of afairs for US ftp mirrors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Brian Tao wrote: > On Sun, 13 Oct 1996 hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca wrote: > > > > Add to this ftp.ca.freebsd.org, which has for a long time not had the > > FreeBSD stuff available. > > I have a mirror at ftp.io.org:/pub/mirrors/freebsd, if anyone > wants to use it. I don't make any guarantees on its completeness or > timeliness, but it works well enough for me to use whenever an install > is needed. I don't mirror the FreeBSD-CVS stuff, but the latest > snapshots, -stable and -current should all be up to date. Brian, i use this archive at IO almost exclusively as a mirror except for {sup,www}.freebsd.org, and i haven't had a prob yet. If you want me too, i may be willing to keep it up-to-date as i do with the linux site... and given my preference, perhaps better. :) I still think ftp.io.org should become ftp.ca.freebsd.org *poke* *poke* .... you've got the bandwith, you already have the space allocated, it would be another conntribution to the internet community to add to IO's long history, and, and, and... i know i've said this before; shut me up if you get sick of hearing it. But anyway, YES, ftp.io.org is a great alternative ftp site for freebsd. And, slackware, too. *grin* -Mit Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe The DreamLabs Network http://www.dreaming.org (905)725-9139 From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 18 15:52:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA28532 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA28492 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA08539; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:52:03 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA01329; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:52:02 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) id AAA29723; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:18:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610182218.AAA29723@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Last farewell to 386BSD To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:18:33 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610170613.QAA27614@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> from Stephen McKay at "Oct 17, 96 04:13:36 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Stephen McKay wrote: > Is there any point to me telling you all this stuff? Well, I want to know > if there is any life left in 386BSD. Dr Dobbs keeps advertising the "386BSD > Reference CD". Is it good for anything? For reference. But only for reference for 386BSD 1.0, i think. ;) (I've got one, a gift by Hellmuth Michaelis, but i haven't used it very much.) > What do Messrs Jolitz do now? Ask Jesus Monroy Jr. > Whatever happened to Jesus Monroy, Jr? Ask the Jolitz'. :-) > Did anybody get any "fairings"? Ah, "fairings". Does anybody still have _that_ News article? This would make up for some good laughter in FreeBSD-chat... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 00:47:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA27907 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from threadway.teeny.org (threadway.teeny.org [205.231.244.157]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA27898; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.teeny.org [127.0.0.1]) by threadway.teeny.org (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA14242; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610190746.AAA14242@threadway.teeny.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Theo de Raadt , dyson@freebsd.org, ache@nagual.ru, dg@root.com, gritton@byu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, tech-userlevel@netbsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/db/hash hash_buf.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:19:00 +0200." <9569.845709540@critter.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:46:39 -0700 From: Jason Downs Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <9569.845709540@critter.tfs.com>, Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >In message <199610190707.BAA29373@zeus.theos.com>, Theo de Raadt writes: >> >>You and John are doing great things for inter-camp relations. >> > >Nobody here even thought of this as being "inter-camp", even after >some random OpenBSD weenie couldn't resist to flout his ignorance >in public. > >Theo, go take your medication or whatever it is that have kept your >ego in a manageable size recently. Your childish proudness of having >"fixed" a security problem does not at all match you supposed and >marketed "responsibility" about security issues. Wow, I'm so utterly impressed with the maturity level of the FreeBSD core. It's so impressive it's beyond description. -- Jason Downs (503) 256-8535 -/- (503) 952-3749 downsj@teeny.org --> teeny.org: Free Software for a Free Internet <-- http://www.teeny.org/ OpenBSD: The BSD with a soul. http://www.openbsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 01:24:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA02375 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from threadway.teeny.org (threadway.teeny.org [205.231.244.157]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA02363; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.teeny.org [127.0.0.1]) by threadway.teeny.org (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA14592; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610190824.BAA14592@threadway.teeny.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: misc@openbsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/db/hash hash_buf.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:12:42 CDT." <199610190812.DAA03042@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:24:43 -0700 From: Jason Downs Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610190812.DAA03042@dyson.iquest.net>, "John S. Dyson" writes: >My offer still stands to help people with VM problems, and I only ask for >reciprocal behavior... Sigh... Yeah, FreeBSD core certainly fosters an environment of co-operation by making public personal attacks. -- Jason Downs (503) 256-8535 -/- (503) 952-3749 downsj@teeny.org --> teeny.org: Free Software for a Free Internet <-- http://www.teeny.org/ OpenBSD: The BSD with a soul. http://www.openbsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 01:28:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA02761 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net ([198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA02731; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA03112; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:27:43 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199610190827.DAA03112@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/db/hash hash_buf.c To: downsj@teeny.org (Jason Downs) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:27:43 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610190824.BAA14592@threadway.teeny.org> from "Jason Downs" at Oct 19, 96 01:24:43 am Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199610190812.DAA03042@dyson.iquest.net>, > "John S. Dyson" writes: > >My offer still stands to help people with VM problems, and I only ask for > >reciprocal behavior... Sigh... > > Yeah, FreeBSD core certainly fosters an environment of co-operation by > making public personal attacks. > Well, the request for details on the original unsubstantiated statement stands. Your original comment was rude, uninformative, and not necessary. Troll for flames, you get flames!!! I have been careful to only state the facts, and ask for further information. My request still stands. John dyson@FreeBSD.org -- BSD with heart, we offer to help. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 01:34:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA03604 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.theos.com (zeus.theos.com [199.185.137.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA03570; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LOCALHOST.theos.com (LOCALHOST.theos.com [127.0.0.1]) by zeus.theos.com (8.8.Beta.2/8.8.Beta.1) with SMTP id CAA29984; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 02:33:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199610190833.CAA29984@zeus.theos.com> X-Authentication-Warning: zeus.theos.com: LOCALHOST.theos.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: deraadt@theos.com (Theo de Raadt), misc@openbsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/db/hash hash_buf.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:17:01 CDT." <199610190817.DAA03053@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 02:33:57 -0600 From: Theo de Raadt Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This was posted by John Dyson, as yet another flame, to the OpenBSD lists. But if FreeBSD people are going to behave impolitely then it is only fair and right for FreeBSD users to see how FreeBSD developers are pissing off others who might at some point have helped them (We helped, we gave you a fix. The kern_sig.c:coredump() fix is NOT enough). You are not helping FreeBSD users by angering the OpenBSD community thus. -------------------- > Actually, the OpenBSD team started it, please leave the FreeBSD > lists alone unless you have something to offer... That is incorrect, John. Jason's post was in partly in humour. And obviously you were in humour too now that you know 1 of the problems is NFS, and you suggest shutting NFS down. > BTW, I sure am doing good things, I have still offered to help you with > your broken VM system (that really doesn't work very well.) I sure am doing good things too. But I'm not helping pkh. > Look at the above statement, and show me how it is different from > Jason's original statement? Oh, that's right, I offer to help > at least a little. OpenBSD is not reciprocating... Sad... I'm not helping pkh. > OpenBSD -- all take and no give!!! New motto!!! Baloney. We gave you a fix, you are now deciding to drop it, that is ok. But not before your team is jumping up and down a bit and calling us losers for suggesting or making the change. Sorry John, you need to check a bit more carefully what happened. Careful attention makes for good programmers, and you are a good programmer, so go apply a bit of that skill to your mailbox. You will see that you were being extremely challenging in your mail; you were basically BEGGING for a flame war. I wish you good luck with turning NFS off to save yourself from your little coredump problem.. But there are other problems with this approach too. Security is a very subtle business, one which one does not benchmark except perhaps by things like "Oh, another sendmail bug, well golly gee, we have that fixed already in another way and we are not vulnerable". (Like, you really think the only gecos overflow was in sendmail?) Ok, I am stopping giving you fixes and reports immediately. You have been making personal attacks, and I hereby promise to not give you any fixes for at least the next 2 months. The accusatory tone is way out of line, I've had it; you suck. End of story. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 03:26:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA13392 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA13387; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA02853; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:25:52 -0700 (PDT) To: Jason Downs cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Theo de Raadt , dyson@freebsd.org, ache@nagual.ru, dg@Root.COM, gritton@byu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, tech-userlevel@netbsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/db/hash hash_buf.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:46:39 PDT." <199610190746.AAA14242@threadway.teeny.org> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 03:25:52 -0700 Message-ID: <2851.845720752@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Wow, I'm so utterly impressed with the maturity level of the FreeBSD core. > > It's so impressive it's beyond description. Yes, like this thread. We didn't ask for it and we certainly don't want it to continue. I might note that Jason's original comment which started all of this could not have been written with a desire to cause any *positive* effect, and hence the resultant flammage should certainly come as no surprise to him - one cannot expect healthy crops to sprout from poisoned seed. I'd also hoped my little parody would inject some much needed humor into the situation *before* a flame war erupted, but that clearly did not work out as hoped. Since everyone seems so insistent on acting like small children, I suppose the only reasonable solution lies in treating their actions accordingly. It's time for everyone to "go to their rooms" at this point until they're ready to come out and play nice. That means that the OpenBSD people will stay *off* the FreeBSD lists, by active filtering should the honor system prove insufficient, and the FreeBSD people will do the same on the OpenBSD lists. Censorship is highly undesirable, but these kinds of ad-hominem attacks are even less so as they waste valuable developer time and energy in pointless bickering. The NetBSD folks, who didn't even ask to be involved in this discussion, will be similarly dropped from FreeBSD-side correspondence and I will leave the OpenBSD->NetBSD mail issue to them since it's clearly something I cannot control. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 10:00:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA22832 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 10:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA22793; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tyger.inna.net (jamie@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by tyger.inna.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA21648; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:08:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Theo de Raadt cc: dyson@freebsd.org, Theo de Raadt , misc@openbsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/db/hash hash_buf.c In-Reply-To: <199610190833.CAA29984@zeus.theos.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Theo de Raadt wrote: Theo, Please go to hell. Thank you. I don'tFrom owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 15:44:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15538 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15530 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id AAA14363; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:30:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA15357; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:20:19 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:20:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: "Randal S. Masutani" cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: email problems? In-Reply-To: <199610180216.QAA17606@mail.hits.net> Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Randal S. Masutani wrote: > My ISP provider recently had a email problem and all my email for the > last two days got returned to the senders. It has been resolved and > my email is working now. > But I am no longer receiving the FreeBSD mailings. Do I need to > re-subscribe to majordomo again? Possibly. A majordomo maintainer might have deceided, that your system isn't working properly, so it's better to stop sending. Another possibility would be, to ask majordomo about your subscription status. You can get help about majordomo commands by simply calling majordomo with "help" in subject or text body. __ andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 15:53:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA16643 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16617 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA08276; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:52:21 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA24209; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:52:21 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) id AAA03841; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:49:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610192249.AAA03841@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/db/hash hash_buf.c To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:49:07 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jamie@inna.net Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610191911.PAA24111@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> from "hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca" at "Oct 19, 96 03:11:12 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca wrote: > However, I do find it distressing to read in mailing lists that aren't > dedicated to it. If this must go on, I think a politics@freebsd.org list > should be created. Yes, but it should be immediately aliased to /dev/null. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 16:54:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA21133 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 16:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21126 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 16:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA09415 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 01:52:23 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA24931 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 01:52:22 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) id BAA10478 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 01:44:31 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610192344.BAA10478@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Last farewell to 386BSD To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 01:44:31 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610192109.RAA20908@housing1.stucen.gatech.edu> from Kenneth Merry at "Oct 19, 96 05:09:45 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kenneth Merry wrote: > > Ah, "fairings". Does anybody still have _that_ News article? This > > would make up for some good laughter in FreeBSD-chat... > > Well, this may be what you're talking about, in any case, it's good > for a laugh. I've included Jordan's response...:) > 1) Don't expect fairings. > 2) If confused read #1. > -- > Jesus Monroy Jr jmonroy@netcom.com > Zebra Research > /386BSD/device-drivers /fd /qic /clock /documentation > ___________________________________________________________________________ Ah, our fairings are still alive! :-) (I think that's the last sign of life from JMJr that's archived anywhere.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Oct 19 18:02:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA24954 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA24948 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA15568; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07636; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:04:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:04:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Joerg Wunsch cc: chat@freebsd.org, jamie@inna.net Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/db/hash hash_buf.c In-Reply-To: <199610192249.AAA03841@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca wrote: > > > However, I do find it distressing to read in mailing lists that aren't > > dedicated to it. If this must go on, I think a politics@freebsd.org list > > should be created. > > Yes, but it should be immediately aliased to /dev/null. Nah. Just throw in the Win95 CD-ROM and start a couple `mail politics@freebsd.org < /dev/cd0a' processes on freefall. ;-) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk