From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 12 02:51:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA20284 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA20279 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id CAA22256 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:51:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA13417; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:50:31 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id LAA02216; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:33:48 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:33:48 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD chat list) Cc: jmg@nike.efn.org (John-Mark Gurney) Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from John-Mark Gurney on Jan 12, 1997 02:08:16 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John-Mark Gurney wrote: > actually... dos supports 32 drive letters.. :) > > a quote from a friend that know dos extreamly well (Jon Mini): > You might like to pass it on that DOS can support up to 32 drive letters. > You get drives A..Z, then "[\]^_`" This is true for any MS-DOS from 3.20 Ah, but that still makes only 31, right (the @ is missing to make it 32)? Ok, i've realized that we ``only'' support 30 slices either. > on up. I can't speak for any DOS clones however. And yes, DOS will parse > "\:filename.ext" correctly. =) Ick! :) > jtymltk :)... ttyl.. Hmpf %^) ? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 12 14:58:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA29505 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:58:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from revelstone.jvm.com (revelstone.jvm.com [207.98.213.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA29500 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:57:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from freyes.dh.i-2000.com (slip166-72-219-154.ny.us.ibm.net [166.72.219.154]) by revelstone.jvm.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA29432; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:57:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701122257.RAA29432@revelstone.jvm.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 97 17:57:21 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.53 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:46:24 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >Agreed, I was thinking 2 to start with (that 350K figure I quoted >before wasn't for a roomful of people, it was actually for a very >conservative 3 employee estimate! The most expensive (and necessary) >would be the business manager since I have little skill with (or >patience for) the minutae of running a business. Why not start with the business manager then? How about searching for someone part time and link their pay to profit? If presented properly we may be able to find someone with the required skills. Where you thinking of setting this as a separate entity from the FreeBSD organization? A corporation perhaps? If not then you may be able to get just a consultant or talk to some organizations that give free and low cost counseling to small companies. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 12 17:22:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA08846 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:22:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA08839 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:22:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA04211; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:21:58 -0800 (PST) To: "Francisco Reyes" cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:57:21 -0400." <199701122257.RAA29432@revelstone.jvm.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:21:58 -0800 Message-ID: <4207.853118518@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:46:24 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Where you thinking of setting this as a separate entity from the > FreeBSD organization? A corporation perhaps? If not then you may be We already have a corporation established, we just need to make it act more like one. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 13 11:53:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA01576 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns.pinpt.com (dns.pinpt.com [205.179.195.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA01571 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from journeyman (gatemaster.pinpt.com [205.179.195.65]) by dns.pinpt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA08029; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:52:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 11:51:40 Pacific Standard Time From: "Sean J. Schluntz" Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Sean J. Schluntz" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: Chameleon ATX 6.0, Standards Based IntraNet Solutions, NetManage Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <15635.853026384@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You also wouldn't have to have a large group of people answering > > phones. One or two who could act at your first line of support who > > Agreed, I was thinking 2 to start with (that 350K figure I quoted > before wasn't for a roomful of people, it was actually for a very > conservative 3 employee estimate! The most expensive (and necessary) > would be the business manager since I have little skill with (or > patience for) the minutae of running a business. > > > If you all were to do something like this I would be willing to > > donate time to help get it started, I really like FreeBSD and think > > that the core team is doing a really good job. -Sean > > An interesting offer on which I may take you up someday. :-) No worries, I will be here if you decide you want to go through with it. I have good info on the office manager thing as well. (Though 350k is a good safe ammount.) -Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean J. Schluntz Manager, Support Services ph. 408.997.6900 x222 PinPoint Software Corporation fx. 408.323.2300 6155 Almaden Expressway, Suite 100 San Jose, CA. 95120 http://www.pinpt.com/ Local Time Sent: 01/13/97 11:51:41 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 13 16:12:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA18122 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:12:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA18093 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id TAA06769; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:13:24 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:11:38 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:11:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199701140011.TAA02500@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, jmg@nike.efn.org In-reply-to: Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> You might like to pass it on that DOS can support up to 32 drive letters. >> You get drives A..Z, then "[\]^_`" This is true for any MS-DOS from 3.20 > Ah, but that still makes only 31, right (the @ is missing to make it > 32)? I am told that a full 32 is supported, but not all 32 can be parsed. Under Novell, I am told, only [A-Z] is supported. (I have not attempted to confirm this.) > Ok, i've realized that we ``only'' support 30 slices either. Per partition? And are there any static limits on the mount table size? I would say that this would closer resemble the drive letter issue than slices per partition. And the first one to tell me to RTFS gets my poor crashed dev machine thrown in their face. >> on up. I can't speak for any DOS clones however. And yes, DOS will parse >> "\:filename.ext" correctly. =) > Ick! :) We will, of course, refrain from casting aspersions on the number of *apps* that will properly parse such a construct. -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 13 16:54:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA20199 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from vex.net (shell.vex.net [207.107.242.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA20194 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:54:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from vex.net(really [207.107.242.162]) by vex.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:49:35 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.90 1996-Dec-4 #4 built 1997-Jan-8) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:49:35 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-Reply-To: <4207.853118518@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > We already have a corporation established, we just need to make it > act more like one. :-) Uuugghhh... I hope that doesn't mean strict 9 to 5 hours, wearing suits and ties, and running off to the boardroom for meetings all day long. :( Could be become a "collective" instead? :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 13 16:57:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA20416 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from freeside.fc.net ([204.157.153.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA20390 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rider.fc.net (rider.fc.net [206.224.74.198]) by freeside.fc.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA25165; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:56:38 -0600 Received: from papillon.lemis.de (papillon.lemis.de [192.109.197.159]) by rider.fc.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA00310; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:57:40 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id TAA00426; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:21:25 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701130121.TAA00426@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Abmahnung (was: cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook hw.sgml) In-Reply-To: <199612290054.LAA02145@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Dec 29, 96 11:24:56 am" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:21:25 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > J Wunsch stands accused of saying: >> As Torsten Blum wrote: >> >>> (btw, what's the english word for "Abmahnung" ? >> >> I don't think there is one. Translating this would be about as >> pointless as translating ``Beamter''. :-) > > Hmm? I read "Abmahnung" as 'dissuasion' or something similar implying a > warning away from something. No, it's an active legal term. There's a very good German word, "Warnung", for what you're talking about. I don't think "Abmahnung" has a translation because the action itself is so despicable. Von Gravenreuth goes along, ostensibly representing a client, and catches people using some trademark. He then says "Gotcha, pay my client ${bigbucks}". His client doesn't have to be in any way related to the owner of the copyright. As if that weren't bad enough, the ostensible copyright infringement is not even for the word Triton--it's something vaguely similar. He's on very thin ice, and I'm surprised that no group has formed to prosecute him. > I think 'public servant' is an insult in most languages 8) I prefer 'civil servant', since they usually are not. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 13 17:06:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA20899 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA20889 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:05:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA21580; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:34:26 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701140104.LAA21580@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre In-Reply-To: <199701131735.KAA27973@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 13, 97 10:35:27 am" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:34:25 +1030 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > Actually, Terry is lying. Those boot messages come from a Jaz with no disk > > inserted. Here's a Jaz with a disk in : > > Actually, J"org and I have collapsed two message threads into a > single thread, seperated only by context. We did the same thing > with the su/getusershell threads, too. Actually, I was commenting specifically on your message where you quoted a probe message with the Jaz saying "no disk here, bub", and then insisted that there was a disk in and spun up. > > Correct; if the drive is mounted, it will have been locked. There's no > > way for a locked drive to singal its desire to be unlocked. > > How about "power cycling rapidly until someone notices the noise"? I can put on my firmware-author hat and say that I'd really like to set the CC bit and report a vendor specific status that's only documented in the source with the comment "mum, I need a wee". But I suspect that someone would hit me with a copy of the SCSI-3 spec, which is a good competitor with the elisp manual for smiting the heathens. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 13 18:25:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA26530 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmission.xmission.com (softweyr@xmission.xmission.com [198.60.22.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA26519 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:25:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from softweyr@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.4/8.7.5) id TAA00780; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:24:47 -0700 (MST) From: Softweyr LLC Message-Id: <199701140224.TAA00780@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: Abmahnung To: grog@lemis.de Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:24:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701130121.TAA00426@papillon.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 12, 97 07:21:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk % Hmm? I read "Abmahnung" as 'dissuasion' or something similar implying a % warning away from something. > > No, it's an active legal term. There's a very good German word, > "Warnung", for what you're talking about. I don't think "Abmahnung" > has a translation because the action itself is so despicable. Knowing how Germanic roots work in English, the literal translation is probably "Admonition." It has the connotation of a warning (warnung) that borders on preaching or harping. > As if that weren't bad enough, the ostensible copyright infringement > is not even for the word Triton--it's something vaguely similar. He's > on very thin ice, and I'm surprised that no group has formed to > prosecute him. It probably wouldn't stand up in the USA, where a fairly direct conflict is required to prove trademark infringement. I've often wondered if I could make a fortune by buying a bunch of Geo Metros, knocking the badgework off, and re-marketing them as "MS-Car97." ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 13 19:14:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA29059 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA29052 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:14:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA16435; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:14:44 -0800 (PST) To: Brian Tao cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:49:35 EST." Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:14:44 -0800 Message-ID: <16431.853211684@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > We already have a corporation established, we just need to make it > > act more like one. :-) > > Uuugghhh... I hope that doesn't mean strict 9 to 5 hours, wearing > suits and ties, and running off to the boardroom for meetings all day > long. :( Could be become a "collective" instead? :) The corporate mindset is whatever you want it to be. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 13 19:57:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA00946 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:57:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA00930 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA01918; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:55:58 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:55:57 +1100 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, jmg@nike.efn.org Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] References: <199701140011.TAA02500@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199701140011.TAA02500@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Jan 13, 1997 19:11:38 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joel Ray Holveck writes: > >> You might like to pass it on that DOS can support up to 32 drive letters. > >> You get drives A..Z, then "[\]^_`" This is true for any MS-DOS from 3.20 > > Ah, but that still makes only 31, right (the @ is missing to make it > > 32)? > > I am told that a full 32 is supported, but not all 32 can be parsed. > Under Novell, I am told, only [A-Z] is supported. (I have not > attempted to confirm this.) No, actually it is the opposite. You see these "additional" drives a fair bit under Netware in particular because it uses them for temporary drive mappings. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 01:00:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA01766 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA01758 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA04309 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:00:22 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id JAA06233; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:39:49 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:39:48 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] References: <199701140011.TAA02500@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701140011.TAA02500@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Jan 13, 1997 19:11:38 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > Ok, i've realized that we ``only'' support 30 slices either. > > Per partition? No. You're confusing terms. :-) We support 7 partitions each inside the 30 slices. See the subject. ;-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 01:46:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA03749 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA03744 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA00473; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:45:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701140945.BAA00473@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Brian Tao cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:49:35 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:45:57 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I hope that you are wearing a tie when you are replying to FreeBSD mail because if not you are being very, very unprofessional 8) As for Jordan's comment that we have a corporation established I couldn't agree more. Enjoy, Amancio P.S.: Now I can take my tie off an relax 8) >From The Desk Of Brian Tao : > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > We already have a corporation established, we just need to make it > > act more like one. :-) > > Uuugghhh... I hope that doesn't mean strict 9 to 5 hours, wearing > suits and ties, and running off to the boardroom for meetings all day > long. :( Could be become a "collective" instead? :) > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 04:16:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA09566 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 04:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA09546 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 04:16:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by knight.cons.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA10917; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:14:33 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:14:33 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199701141214.NAA10917@knight.cons.org> From: Martin Cracauer To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Seeking a FreeBSD-aware ISP Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [I hope this is not too off-topic, at least I'm seeking for a FreeBSD-capable organization and I need to bring up free software projects.] I need a machine for some of my free software projects located at some reliable point in the internet (say: NOT Germany). I'm seeking for a provider who will put together a PC with plain FreeBSD-2.2(beta) and connect it to the internet, so that I can set up the machine for my use (CVS, maillists, GNATS, www/ftp). An old 486/66 with 16MB RAM, 2 GB disk would be sufficient. Best way should be to charge a monthly sum for ISP services and the hardware together (otherwise I'll had to buy the machine), plus some sum for basic setup (about 1 hour for a FreeBSD-aware person). Interested parties should be able to bring the machine back up should I screw up something, but I don't expect that to happen more than once in several months. The expected data transfer rate is about 300-500 MB/month. 56-64 Kbit/sec bandwidth is sufficient. Ability to charge Mastercard is a plus. Ability to provide 4 instead of one IP address for the machine is a plus. I already own domain names and nameservers. Please let me know if you know some organization that might be able to provide this service and/or feel free to forward this mail. Thanks Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (batched, preferred for large mails) Tel.: (daytime) +4940 41478712 (sometimes hacker's daytime :-) Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 Paper: (private) Waldstrasse 200, 22846 Norderstedt, Germany From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 07:45:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA18604 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA18590; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:45:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA00734; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:45:04 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:45:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701141545.IAA00734@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bruce Evans , chat@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/stdio printf.3 vfprintf.c In-Reply-To: <22520.853229995@time.cdrom.com> References: <199701140812.TAA29923@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <22520.853229995@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > Submitted-By: Bill Fenner > > > > Actually-Submitted-By: Mark Diekhans > > Cross-Reference: PR1597 > > Drat! This new brain is acting up again. Thanks. Did someone rewrite you in TCL/TK? If so, we can sure understand the reason why you're much slower than your old Perl version. *ducking thrown objects* Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 08:56:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA22480 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:56:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA22459 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA29874; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:43:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141643.JAA29874@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:43:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701140104.LAA21580@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 14, 97 11:34:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Actually, Terry is lying. Those boot messages come from a Jaz with no disk > > > inserted. Here's a Jaz with a disk in : > > > > Actually, J"org and I have collapsed two message threads into a > > single thread, seperated only by context. We did the same thing > > with the su/getusershell threads, too. > > Actually, I was commenting specifically on your message where you > quoted a probe message with the Jaz saying "no disk here, bub", and > then insisted that there was a disk in and spun up. I was talking about the probe message in regard to the procedural error. I was talking about the disk being spun up at the time the umount was attempted. In point of fact, I inserted the media *after* the machine was booted, so there's no discrepancy in any case... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 09:08:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA23190 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA23182 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:08:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA06607; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:02:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:02:33 -0800 (PST) From: HCI To: Martin Cracauer cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seeking a FreeBSD-aware ISP In-Reply-To: <199701141214.NAA10917@knight.cons.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk www.blueneptune.com is a FreeBSD powered ISP. They could certainly do the work. San Fransico Bay FreeBSD fans - use these guys they are in the south bay. They used to be San Jose Co-op. On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Martin Cracauer wrote: > [I hope this is not too off-topic, at least I'm seeking for a > FreeBSD-capable organization and I need to bring up free software > projects.] > > I need a machine for some of my free software projects located at some > reliable point in the internet (say: NOT Germany). > > I'm seeking for a provider who will put together a PC with plain > FreeBSD-2.2(beta) and connect it to the internet, so that I can set up > the machine for my use (CVS, maillists, GNATS, www/ftp). An old 486/66 > with 16MB RAM, 2 GB disk would be sufficient. > > Best way should be to charge a monthly sum for ISP services and the > hardware together (otherwise I'll had to buy the machine), plus some > sum for basic setup (about 1 hour for a FreeBSD-aware person). > > Interested parties should be able to bring the machine back up should > I screw up something, but I don't expect that to happen more than once > in several months. The expected data transfer rate is about 300-500 > MB/month. 56-64 Kbit/sec bandwidth is sufficient. > > Ability to charge Mastercard is a plus. Ability to provide 4 instead > of one IP address for the machine is a plus. I already own domain > names and nameservers. > > Please let me know if you know some organization that might be able to > provide this service and/or feel free to forward this mail. > > Thanks > Martin > -- > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer > cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (batched, preferred for large mails) > Tel.: (daytime) +4940 41478712 (sometimes hacker's daytime :-) > Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 > Paper: (private) Waldstrasse 200, 22846 Norderstedt, Germany > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 10:06:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA26986 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:06:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns.pinpt.com (dns.pinpt.com [205.179.195.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA26980 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from journeyman (gatemaster.pinpt.com [205.179.195.65]) by dns.pinpt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA13020; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:05:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 10:04:32 Pacific Standard Time From: "Sean J. Schluntz" Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Brian Tao Cc: FreeBSd Chat list X-Mailer: Chameleon ATX 6.0, Standards Based IntraNet Solutions, NetManage Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > We already have a corporation established, we just need to make it > > act more like one. :-) > > Uuugghhh... I hope that doesn't mean strict 9 to 5 hours, wearing > suits and ties, and running off to the boardroom for meetings all day > long. :( Could be become a "collective" instead? :) Heh, I work for a corp and the only time you see someone in a suite is when they are going somewhere else to a meeting. I'm here at my desk in worn jeans and an Auspex t-shirt as I type to you. As long as you give a good face over the phone your customers don't care what you look like in the real world. -Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean J. Schluntz Manager, Support Services ph. 408.997.6900 x222 PinPoint Software Corporation fx. 408.323.2300 6155 Almaden Expressway, Suite 100 San Jose, CA. 95120 http://www.pinpt.com/ Local Time Sent: 01/14/97 10:04:33 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 11:26:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA01430 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:26:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA01425 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:26:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from PacBell.TelcoSucks.org (PacBell.TelcoSucks.org [207.90.181.5]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA11093; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970114112727.0072fd28@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net> X-Sender: ulf@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:27:28 -0800 To: Martin Cracauer , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Ulf Zimmermann Subject: Re: Seeking a FreeBSD-aware ISP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Martin. I was going to offer (esp. for people from germany/europe) some colocation, where I would build the system for them. Standard plan was a P5-100, 32 MB ram, 1 GB SCSI, Ethernet, Rack Mount, UPS. This would be at a charge of $1500 for startup and then $250/month for 1GB/day. So this might be a little bit over powered for you. I just calculated an AMD 486DX4-100, 16MB, simple VGA, 850MB EIDE, Network card, case, keyboard. It would cost around $650 plus shipping. 300-400MB per month is nothing. I would offer you that for $75/month. This a special offer for you and FreeBSD related projects :). Regards, Ulf. At 01:14 PM 1/14/97 +0100, Martin Cracauer wrote: >[I hope this is not too off-topic, at least I'm seeking for a >FreeBSD-capable organization and I need to bring up free software >projects.] > >I need a machine for some of my free software projects located at some >reliable point in the internet (say: NOT Germany). > >I'm seeking for a provider who will put together a PC with plain >FreeBSD-2.2(beta) and connect it to the internet, so that I can set up >the machine for my use (CVS, maillists, GNATS, www/ftp). An old 486/66 >with 16MB RAM, 2 GB disk would be sufficient. > >Best way should be to charge a monthly sum for ISP services and the >hardware together (otherwise I'll had to buy the machine), plus some >sum for basic setup (about 1 hour for a FreeBSD-aware person). > >Interested parties should be able to bring the machine back up should >I screw up something, but I don't expect that to happen more than once >in several months. The expected data transfer rate is about 300-500 >MB/month. 56-64 Kbit/sec bandwidth is sufficient. > >Ability to charge Mastercard is a plus. Ability to provide 4 instead >of one IP address for the machine is a plus. I already own domain >names and nameservers. > >Please let me know if you know some organization that might be able to >provide this service and/or feel free to forward this mail. > >Thanks > Martin >-- >%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer > cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (batched, preferred for large mails) > Tel.: (daytime) +4940 41478712 (sometimes hacker's daytime :-) > Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 > Paper: (private) Waldstrasse 200, 22846 Norderstedt, Germany > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Alameda Networks, Inc. | Ulf Zimmermann (ulf@Alameda.net) 1525 Pacific Avenue | Phone: (510)769-2936 Alameda, CA 94501 | Fax : (510)521-5073 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 11:27:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA01474 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA01469 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from PacBell.TelcoSucks.org (PacBell.TelcoSucks.org [207.90.181.5]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA11103; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:40:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970114112857.00b20fb8@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net> X-Sender: ulf@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:28:58 -0800 To: HCI , Martin Cracauer From: Ulf Zimmermann Subject: Re: Seeking a FreeBSD-aware ISP Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey ! And what is about me ? I am sitting in the Bay Area too and use only FreeBSD right now. :) Ulf. At 09:02 AM 1/14/97 -0800, HCI wrote: >www.blueneptune.com is a FreeBSD powered ISP. They could certainly do the >work. > >San Fransico Bay FreeBSD fans - use these guys they are in the south >bay. They used to be San Jose Co-op. > > > >On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Martin Cracauer wrote: > >> [I hope this is not too off-topic, at least I'm seeking for a >> FreeBSD-capable organization and I need to bring up free software >> projects.] >> >> I need a machine for some of my free software projects located at some >> reliable point in the internet (say: NOT Germany). >> >> I'm seeking for a provider who will put together a PC with plain >> FreeBSD-2.2(beta) and connect it to the internet, so that I can set up >> the machine for my use (CVS, maillists, GNATS, www/ftp). An old 486/66 >> with 16MB RAM, 2 GB disk would be sufficient. >> >> Best way should be to charge a monthly sum for ISP services and the >> hardware together (otherwise I'll had to buy the machine), plus some >> sum for basic setup (about 1 hour for a FreeBSD-aware person). >> >> Interested parties should be able to bring the machine back up should >> I screw up something, but I don't expect that to happen more than once >> in several months. The expected data transfer rate is about 300-500 >> MB/month. 56-64 Kbit/sec bandwidth is sufficient. >> >> Ability to charge Mastercard is a plus. Ability to provide 4 instead >> of one IP address for the machine is a plus. I already own domain >> names and nameservers. >> >> Please let me know if you know some organization that might be able to >> provide this service and/or feel free to forward this mail. >> >> Thanks >> Martin >> -- >> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >> Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer >> cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (batched, preferred for large mails) >> Tel.: (daytime) +4940 41478712 (sometimes hacker's daytime :-) >> Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 >> Paper: (private) Waldstrasse 200, 22846 Norderstedt, Germany >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Alameda Networks, Inc. | Ulf Zimmermann (ulf@Alameda.net) 1525 Pacific Avenue | Phone: (510)769-2936 Alameda, CA 94501 | Fax : (510)521-5073 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 12:48:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA06218 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:48:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA06199 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by knight.cons.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA11392; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:45:49 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:45:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199701142045.VAA11392@knight.cons.org> From: Martin Cracauer To: Ulf Zimmermann Cc: HCI , Martin Cracauer , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seeking a FreeBSD-aware ISP In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970114112857.00b20fb8@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net> References: <3.0.32.19970114112857.00b20fb8@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Folks, thanks for the messages, but it is probably better not to CC: the FreeBSD list in followups. You'll hear from me. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (batched, preferred for large mails) Tel.: (daytime) +4940 41478712 (sometimes hacker's daytime :-) Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 Paper: (private) Waldstrasse 200, 22846 Norderstedt, Germany From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 12:58:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA06750 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:58:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns.pinpt.com (dns.pinpt.com [205.179.195.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA06745 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from journeyman (gatemaster.pinpt.com [205.179.195.65]) by dns.pinpt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14119; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:57:54 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 11:58:44 Pacific Standard Time From: "Sean J. Schluntz" Subject: Re: Seeking a FreeBSD-aware ISP To: HCI , Martin Cracauer Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Chameleon ATX 6.0, Standards Based IntraNet Solutions, NetManage Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > www.blueneptune.com is a FreeBSD powered ISP. They could certainly do the > work. > > San Fransico Bay FreeBSD fans - use these guys they are in the south > bay. They used to be San Jose Co-op. > Does anyone know of a good ISP in the Hayward area? Or at least one that is not to much of a toll call? Prefurably one that can handle both 28.8k & ISDN. -Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean J. Schluntz Manager, Support Services ph. 408.997.6900 x222 PinPoint Software Corporation fx. 408.323.2300 6155 Almaden Expressway, Suite 100 San Jose, CA. 95120 http://www.pinpt.com/ Local Time Sent: 01/14/97 11:58:45 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 15:36:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA15695 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA15674; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:36:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:36:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199701142336.PAA15674@freefall.freebsd.org> To: schluntz@pinpt.com Subject: Re: Seeking a FreeBSD-aware ISP Cc: chat Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Try idiom.com. They use FreeBSD, have POPs all over the Bay Area, and are knowledgeable. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 16:38:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA19943 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA19936 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id TAA02959; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:39:22 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:37:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:37:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199701150037.TAA09401@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Ok, i've realized that we ``only'' support 30 slices either. >> Per partition? > No. You're confusing terms. :-) Actually, I was thinking of Solaris x86, in which the term `partition' is used in the x86 tradition of the stuff recorded at the beginning of the HDD and edited with `fdisk' and its ilk. (/dev/hd0[a-d]) Then it slices that up (/dev/hd0[a-d][0-9]+) and those slices are what go into your mount table. > We support 7 partitions each inside the 30 slices. See the > subject. ;-) You mean those headers serve a purpose besides sendmail holes? -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 14 18:59:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA29299 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:59:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from dcs.stu.rpi.edu (kdupuis@dcs.stu.rpi.edu [128.113.161.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA29294 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kdupuis@localhost) by dcs.stu.rpi.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25958 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:59:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:59:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Kenneth J. Dupuis" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2-RELEASE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I see a 3.0-SNAP is out, what's the timetable for 2.2-RELEASE? From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 15 01:24:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA18726 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:24:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA18716 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA29431; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:22:45 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id KAA10656; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:01:01 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:01:01 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] References: <199701150037.TAA09401@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701150037.TAA09401@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Jan 14, 1997 19:37:34 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > >>> Ok, i've realized that we ``only'' support 30 slices either. > >> Per partition? > > No. You're confusing terms. :-) > > Actually, I was thinking of Solaris x86, in which the term `partition' > is used in the x86 tradition of the stuff recorded at the beginning of > the HDD and edited with `fdisk' and its ilk. Sadly, yes. I wonder how they kept congruency with Solaris/Sparc. Did they add an fdisk table to the latter, in order to keep the same terminology? :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 15 02:03:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA20055 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:03:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (vince@mail.MCESTATE.COM [206.171.98.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA20049 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id CAA16432; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:02:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:02:29 -0800 (PST) From: Vincent Poy To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: HCI , Martin Cracauer , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seeking a FreeBSD-aware ISP In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970114112857.00b20fb8@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk GaiaNet Information Services based in Beverly Hills, California runs FreeBSD for the Unix side (http://www.GAIANET.NET) on 4 machines for shell accounts, etc. and The MajorBBS for the BBS side (http://GAIANET.NET) and will soon be powered by the Emerging Technologies Synchronous Serial Card to make the FreeBSD machinea router. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET Unix Networking Operations GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 15 10:36:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA16100 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:36:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA16093; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) id NAA09575; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:36:41 -0500 (EST) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199701151836.NAA09575@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: SysV init To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers), freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:36:41 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm about to embark on the dreaded SysV init path. (Please keep the hisses and boos to a minimum...) Before I start hacking up the FreeBSD init. I've been looking at coming up with a "Universal" init version which would use /etc/ttys if present or /etc/inittab. I'm looking to base the code off of the current FreeBSD init, instead of porting the Linux one so it'll be GPL free. Before I start -- has anyone done this yet? Is anyone else interested in this capability? Any chance for utmp space to record the run level in future versions -- or should I just record it in /var/run/runlevels in it's own file for compatibility. I guess who will need the -r option -- anything else needed? Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive, Tinton Falls, NJ 07724, 908-389-3592 | pechter@shell.monmouth.com This message brought to you by the letters VAX and the numbers 11 and 780. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 15 12:19:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA22533 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA22506; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:19:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04245; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:06:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701152006.NAA04245@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SysV init To: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:06:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701151836.NAA09575@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Jan 15, 97 01:36:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm about to embark on the dreaded SysV init path. [ ... ] > Before I start hacking up the FreeBSD init. I've been looking at coming > up with a "Universal" init version which would use /etc/ttys if present > or /etc/inittab. > > I'm looking to base the code off of the current FreeBSD init, instead of > porting the Linux one so it'll be GPL free. > > Before I start -- has anyone done this yet? Is anyone else interested > in this capability? I am very interested, because I want to run SVR4 database server binaries without hacking up my rc file. You should probably look at the BSDi initd code, which I believe was generally donated... I thought they had done this already. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 04:27:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA19118 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA19113 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA04936 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:29:46 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id NAA26173 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:29:15 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:29:15 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701161229.NAA26173@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: UWIN - for the interested Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just got a pointer (URL) to an interesting page containing a USENIX paper by David G. Korn (the author of the Korn shell): http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/uwin/ Said paper describes the implementation of UNIX system calls (fork, exec etc.) under Win95/WinNT and also gives some benchmark figures. It also says, in the conclusion, that NT crashed very often during the performance tests while Linux was very stable. Since these are AT&T people I'd suspect there would be little interest with them to know about FreeBSD figures. Anyway, just wanted to let you know about this. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 09:21:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA00993 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from perki0.connect.com.au (perki0.connect.com.au [192.189.54.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA00987; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by perki0.connect.com.au id EAA16188 (8.7.6h/IDA-1.6); Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:21:16 +1100 (EST) >Received: from localhost.nemeton.com.au (localhost.nemeton.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by nemeton.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA16084; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:45:46 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701161345.AAA16084@nemeton.com.au> To: "Brian J. McGovern" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-reply-to: <199701161220.HAA03853@spoon.beta.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:45:45 +1100 From: Giles Lean Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:20:25 -0500 "Brian J. McGovern" wrote: > Secondly, the concept of "Freeware" scares people off. I know a company > (Telebit) that bought BSDI boxes, simply because FreeBSD was Freeware, and > BSDI was a commercial product that they could put money down on. They > never bothered with a support contract. So, what is the problem? If BSD/OS works out (and I expect it will), then when some useful project comes up that is short of funds offer FreeBSD as an option, with a fallback to BSD/OS if it doesn't work. If a company (or project -- don't try to change the world in just one day!) is a little more adventurous they might pick FreeBSD, knowing that the fallback to BSD/OS is available if FreeBSD doesn't work out. BSDI are not the enemy, really! Their product when I looked last wasn't as nice as the free *BSD Unixen, but it did work pretty well and certainly more comfortable than NT. The cost of a PC OS is too small in the context of most projects to have much influence at all unless you are installing tens or hundreds of machines. Giles P.S. This almost certainly should move from -hackers to -chat if you followup; it is on both lists now so please TRIM THE REPLY ADDRESS! From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 11:30:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA08466 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from trout.mt.sri.com (trout.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.104]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA08459 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.mt.sri.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id MAA16373 for chat@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:30:20 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:30:20 -0700 (MST) From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199701161930.MAA16373@trout.mt.sri.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Uptime record? Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: helena.MT.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news.radio.cz!CESspool!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.uwa.edu.au!alpha8.curtin.edu.au!hotblack From: GriffithsD@cbs.curtin.edu.au (Don Griffiths) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Uptime 460 days for 1.1.5.1 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 06:34:27 GMT Organization: Curtin University of Technology Lines: 22 Message-ID: <5bhtpi$l2s@alpha8.curtin.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 134.7.79.123 Keywords: freebsd uptime X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2 Date sent: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:12:24 GMT From: Don Griffiths To: GriffithsD@cbs.curtin.edu.au Subject: uptime 460 days! Hi folks, on the 2nd of January I had to shutdown my FreeBSD system as building power was about to be shutdown. At that point the system had been up for 460 days! The system is a surplus-to-requirements Acerpower 433 (486DX33) with 16mb RAM and a 200mb IDE drive that I grabbed and have used as a majordomo listserver. My hats off to the development team for producing a stable, reliable O/S at the right price. :) FreeBSD iof 1.1.5.1(RELEASE) GENERICAH#0 i386 Welcome to FreeBSD! bash$ uptime 3:11pm up 460 days, 9:20, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 bash$ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 12:00:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA09934 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA09929 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:00:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA18078; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:00:35 +0100 Received: from localhost (smurfen@localhost) by sister.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id VAA13180; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:00:34 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:00:34 +0100 (MET) From: Ola Persson To: Nate Williams cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Uptime record? In-Reply-To: <199701161930.MAA16373@trout.mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Nate Williams wrote: > My hats off to the development team for producing a stable, reliable O/S > at the right price. :) Do you wear more then one at a time ;) /Ola ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I Ola Persson I Tel. +46 (0)920 151 21 I I Porsogarden 8:81 I WWW: http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/smurfen I I 977 54 Lulea, Sweden I FreeBSD - Turns PC's into workstations I ------------- Hiroshima 45 -- Tjernobyl 86 -- Windows 95 ------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 12:49:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA12606 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA12599 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA11744; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:49:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:49:32 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701162049.NAA11744@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Ola Persson Cc: Nate Williams , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Uptime record? In-Reply-To: References: <199701161930.MAA16373@trout.mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > My hats off to the development team for producing a stable, reliable O/S > > at the right price. :) > > Do you wear more then one at a time ;) That was a forwarded message from UseNet, I didn't write it. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 13:39:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA14977 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:39:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from oyster.vast.unsw.edu.au (oyster.vast.unsw.edu.au [149.171.224.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA14972 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:39:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mucket.vast.unsw.edu.au (mucket [149.171.224.9]) by oyster.vast.unsw.edu.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17842 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:37:57 +1100 (EST) Received: (from julianj@localhost) by mucket.vast.unsw.edu.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA08525; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:39:33 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:39:31 +1100 (EST) From: Julian Jenkins X-Sender: julianj@mucket cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Uptime record? In-Reply-To: <199701161930.MAA16373@trout.mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FreeBSD iof 1.1.5.1(RELEASE) GENERICAH#0 i386 > > Welcome to FreeBSD! > > bash$ uptime > 3:11pm up 460 days, 9:20, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > bash$ This should somehow be merged into the effort to convince commercial companies that we have a good OS that is being discussed in a nother thread. Could we put a top 10 on the web pages somewhere? Does anyone know how this would compare with what workstaton vendors products can achieve? Kaveman From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 16:15:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA24537 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:15:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA24528 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:15:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id TAA24749; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:16:43 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:14:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:14:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199701170014.TAA17309@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Joel Ray Holveck wrote: >> >>> Ok, i've realized that we ``only'' support 30 slices either. >> >> Per partition? >>> No. You're confusing terms. :-) >> Actually, I was thinking of Solaris x86, in which the term `partition' >> is used in the x86 tradition of the stuff recorded at the beginning of >> the HDD and edited with `fdisk' and its ilk. > Sadly, yes. I wonder how they kept congruency with Solaris/Sparc. > Did they add an fdisk table to the latter, in order to keep the same > terminology? :) No, they added an fdisk table to the x86. Since this would only change device names, and only the ones used in /etc/mnttab, it wasn't a big deal. I don't believe Solaris/Sparc supports multi-OS partitioning (what other OS would you run on a Sparc?) (Hey, everybody, let's start a FreeBSD/Sparc team...) although it does support slicing. -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 18:27:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA03995 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:27:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA03989 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01540; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:26:43 -0800 (PST) To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:03:37 +0100." <9701161603.AA16040@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:26:43 -0800 Message-ID: <1535.853468003@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > maybe this should really be moved to chat ? Done > I talked to a German journalist at a trade show last year (from iX, > one of the better UNIX rags here), and basically told him that they > had too much of a Linux bent. His reply was basically "we can't publish > articles we don't have." Precisely. > The German magazines seem to think that there are only 4 OSes: DOS, > WINDOWS, NT and Linux. Whenever they talk about a non-M$ OS (although > one can argue that M$ doesn't have any real OS), then it's ALWAYS Linux. > Even the UNIX rags are like that. I think this is our fault more than anything else. As you just noted, if nobody provides them with articles to publish about FreeBSD then the OS world is going to look somewhat smaller to someone in the publishing business. The question is, what are we going to do about it? I'd love to write articles for every magazine on the planet, but I haven't got the time. :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 18:44:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA04944 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:44:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA04915 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01626; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:42:54 -0800 (PST) To: dennis cc: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:40:02 EST." <3.0.32.19970116123959.00a85ce0@etinc.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:42:54 -0800 Message-ID: <1622.853468974@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Redirected to -chat, please; no longer -hackers material] > Magazines are a business; don't let them try to tell you that > there's a separation of editorial decision making and advertising > dollars. You're not going to get an article published about how > FreeBSD blows the doors off of SCO if they're getting big dollars > from them. However, this is rarely the problem. It's sort of like complaining that the superpowers are keeping you out of the space race even though you don't actually have any ships of your own, funding, skilled personnel or a place to launch them from if you did. "Ah, but if I *did* have my own fleet of spaceships, the superpowers would resist my efforts to launch them, the power-hungry bastards!" Those sorts of arguments don't really get you anywhere. I've talked with a lot of magazines, some of which have even been known to run the occasional SCO advert, and it's basically just a lack of articles which are holding us back. They'd love to publish them, and the UNIX world is far too short of article-writers at this point for most of the publications to be too choosy. Whether we choose or not to take advantage of that fact is our own laziness at work. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 19:29:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA06599 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA06594 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:29:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id TAA01986 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id MAA02123; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:26:21 +0900 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:26:21 +0900 Message-Id: <199701170326.MAA02123@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com, chat@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:26:43 -0800. <1535.853468003@time.cdrom.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <1535.853468003@time.cdrom.com> jkh@time.cdrom.com writes: >> The question is, what are we going to do about it? I'd love to write >> articles for every magazine on the planet, but I haven't got the >> time. :-( Some FreeBSD users in Japan have wrote, and are writing FreeBSD books and magazine articles (last year, people in jp.freebsd.org talked about what we lack, and the conclusion is that it's good books and localized documentation. Japanese/Chinese sysinstall, Japanese Handbook, and Japanese online manual are the results of this discussion). This is the list of Japanese books and magazines about FreeBSD published in the fourth quarter of 1996. Sep. 1996, "All about FreeBSD" (about 40 pages) in "Software Design" Sep.? 1996, "FreeBSD Introduction Kit" (book) Oct. 1996, "Installing FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE" (24 pages includs 13 color pages) in "UNIX User" (it's mine) Dec. 1996 "FreeBSD Power Guide" (book) and, as far as I know, two magazines are going to publish special numbers features FreeBSD and three books are going to be published within a few months. I'm writing a book about FreeBSD and going to write an article on a magazine next month. And I got a good Chinese FreeBSD book "Introduction and Application of FreeBSD" written by Jian-Da Li (Thanks!) in Taiwan R.O.C.. Perhaps, now what people need is good English book about FreeBSD :-). -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 19:39:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA07082 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:39:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA07077 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01899; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:39:05 -0800 (PST) To: Chris Coleman cc: "Brian J. McGovern" , chat@freebsd.org, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:38:11 PST." Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:39:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1895.853472345@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Redirected to -chat] > What books or articles would you suggest we get started on. Articles can be very wide ranging - from your own experiences setting up FreeBSD to do something specific, and don't be put off by what sounds like the obvious: "Setting up a News server with FreeBSD" is a fine magazine article topic, even if it _has_ been done dozens of times before with different values for ${OS}. If you've ever subscribed to a single magazine for more than a couple of years, you'll find this repetition to be hardly rare. :-) And as to coverage, just pick your favorite (or most likely) magazine and go for it. Send the editor a description of your article, intended audience and a short outline (if you *really* want to make points) of your article. They will then respond either positively or negatively to the idea, and if you've already submitted the outline then they'll probably just say "Do it! When can you have it ready for us?" at that stage. After that, you get a contract in the mail stating your deadline in writing and how much you'll be paid for the article. You sign it, send it back, then one day before your deadline, you drink lots of coffee and write the entire article in a single night and send it in. Just kidding. :-) The point I'm trying to make here is that it's a solo activity, and you don't "organize a magazine article" with a group, you just pick your target and go for it as an individual (unless you and someone else really want to write an article together, which is fine too if you can pull that off). The editor of whichever periodical you pick will also help you in refining your concept for their magazine, so don't sweat that bit. > If we kept a list of who was working on what books on the FreeBSD Web > page, people could contribute experiences and encouragement. Well, the FreeBSD web pages are now handled by the FreeBSD Documentation Project, which has its own section of the Handbook so go take a look. :-) As to books, there are probably not too many of those in the pipeline right now. > How to run an ISP using FreeBSD (cdrom included) This was actually mostly written by someone, then he said he had trouble finding a publisher. Hmmmm. > I say we just list these on the web page and have people claim a book and > start writing. We keep track of how many pages they have written on the > web page, and then help them get it published. It's pretty hard to take on a serious book without having a publisher lined up for it first - the temptation to flake out is otherwise just too high, and you've got the insecurity about wasting all that work if someone doesn't take it to deal with. Editors are also pretty important, which is why I chose to make my own pitch to Addison Wesley (who are keen, but now I'm the flake with not enough time). A good editor is worth his weight in gold, and AW has Brian Kernighan. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 20:10:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA08249 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:10:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cedar.netten.net (root@cedar.netten.net [205.244.191.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA08236 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:10:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from redpoint.com (wok6-13.memphis.edu [141.225.224.133]) by cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA14782; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:18:41 -0600 Message-ID: <32DEFBBF.2F9F@cedar.netten.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:10:39 -0600 From: Tracy Phillips X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: HOSOKAWA Tatsumi CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, gjennejohn@frt.dec.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications References: <199701170326.MAA02123@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HOSOKAWA Tatsumi wrote: > Some FreeBSD users in Japan have wrote, and are writing FreeBSD books > and magazine articles (last year, people in jp.freebsd.org talked > about what we lack, and the conclusion is that it's good books and > localized documentation. Japanese/Chinese sysinstall, Japanese > Handbook, and Japanese online manual are the results of this > discussion). This is the list of Japanese books and magazines about > FreeBSD published in the fourth quarter of 1996. > > Sep. 1996, "All about FreeBSD" (about 40 pages) in "Software Design" > Sep.? 1996, "FreeBSD Introduction Kit" (book) > Oct. 1996, "Installing FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE" (24 pages includs 13 > color pages) in "UNIX User" (it's mine) > Dec. 1996 "FreeBSD Power Guide" (book) > > > Perhaps, now what people need is good English book about FreeBSD :-). Being a new user to unix and FreeBSD i have done searches on all of the search engines and most of the hits come from japanese sites. if only i could read japenese i i think i would have a wealth of information at my fingertips :( Tracy Phillips tphilips@cedar.netten.net From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 21:22:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA11180 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:22:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA11165 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id PAA17479; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:51:26 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701170521.PAA17479@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS In-Reply-To: <199701170511.AAA06783@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from Bill Paul at "Jan 17, 97 00:11:18 am" To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:51:24 +1030 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Paul stands accused of saying: > > > > > > Any noise on our chances wrt. this yet? > > Tread carefully. Keep your head down. Don't talk to any strangers. > Remember the Alamo. Three of four. What's the Alamo? (note domain) > Some would argue that not being able to run nutscrape is a good thing. > Now if Micro$oft had any brains at all, they'd realize that this is a > market Netscape hasn't locked down yet and do an Internet Exploiter for > FreeBSD. > > Wait... what the hell am I saying... You're saying that Comic Chat is where it's At. Argh. I knew I should read Women's Day, not Communique in the dunny. *sigh* > -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 22:35:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA14050 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA13947 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02441; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:20:56 -0800 (PST) To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:26:21 +0900." <199701170326.MAA02123@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:20:56 -0800 Message-ID: <2437.853482056@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Some FreeBSD users in Japan have wrote, and are writing FreeBSD books > and magazine articles (last year, people in jp.freebsd.org talked > about what we lack, and the conclusion is that it's good books and > localized documentation. Japanese/Chinese sysinstall, Japanese > Handbook, and Japanese online manual are the results of this > discussion). This is the list of Japanese books and magazines about > FreeBSD published in the fourth quarter of 1996. > ... > [Long list of cites which puts American and European efforts to shame] > ... > Perhaps, now what people need is good English book about FreeBSD :-). No kidding! C'mon, all you native writers of english out there, we're being completely shown up by jp.freebsd.org here, and they probably did more in the 4th quarter of 1996 than we did for the entire year! :-) I think it's time for us to get off the stick, eh guys? :) I will commit here and now to having an article in at least one well-known english language publication before Q2 of '97. I've also already committed to helping Walnut Creek CDROM publish a regular FreeBSD newsletter (for which all contributions will be highly welcomed, BTW) which will be sent to all people on their mailing list who've ever purchased a FreeBSD CDROM. Whomever would like to join me in doing PR this coming year is more than encouraged to do so. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 16 22:43:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA14406 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA14375 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:41:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from grfpc1 (monty-port7.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.17]) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22154; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:41:03 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32DF2C41.212C@shoal.net.au> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:37:37 +1000 From: Andrew Perry X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: HOSOKAWA Tatsumi CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) References: <199701170326.MAA02123@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Greg Lehey put out a book called The Complete FreeBSD? Available from Walnut Creek. My memory being destroyed daily by thousands of beer molecules i apologise if i have credited the wrong person with this book. 8) that's not to say we couldn't all benefit from some translated/rewritten in english type books from sources below. :-) andrew perry andrew@shoal.net.au HOSOKAWA Tatsumi wrote: > > In article <1535.853468003@time.cdrom.com> > jkh@time.cdrom.com writes: > > >> The question is, what are we going to do about it? I'd love to write > >> articles for every magazine on the planet, but I haven't got the > >> time. :-( > > Some FreeBSD users in Japan have wrote, and are writing FreeBSD books > and magazine articles (last year, people in jp.freebsd.org talked > about what we lack, and the conclusion is that it's good books and > localized documentation. Japanese/Chinese sysinstall, Japanese > Handbook, and Japanese online manual are the results of this > discussion). This is the list of Japanese books and magazines about > FreeBSD published in the fourth quarter of 1996. > > Sep. 1996, "All about FreeBSD" (about 40 pages) in "Software Design" > Sep.? 1996, "FreeBSD Introduction Kit" (book) > Oct. 1996, "Installing FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE" (24 pages includs 13 > color pages) in "UNIX User" (it's mine) > Dec. 1996 "FreeBSD Power Guide" (book) > > and, as far as I know, two magazines are going to publish special > numbers features FreeBSD and three books are going to be published > within a few months. I'm writing a book about FreeBSD and going to > write an article on a magazine next month. > > And I got a good Chinese FreeBSD book "Introduction and Application of > FreeBSD" written by Jian-Da Li (Thanks!) in Taiwan R.O.C.. > > Perhaps, now what people need is good English book about FreeBSD :-). > > -- > HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp > WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html > Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 00:29:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA17631 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from superior.truenorth.org (ppp026-sm2.sirius.com [205.134.231.26]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA17625 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.truenorth.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14181; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:21:34 -0800 (PST) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <199701170821.AAA14181@superior.truenorth.org> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-Reply-To: <32DF2C41.212C@shoal.net.au> from Andrew Perry at "Jan 17, 97 05:37:37 pm" To: andrew@shoal.net.au (Andrew Perry) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:21:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: jgrosch@sirius.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Greg Lehey put out a book called The >Complete FreeBSD? Available from Walnut Creek. My memory being destroyed >daily by thousands of beer molecules i apologise if i have credited the >wrong person with this book. 8) > >that's not to say we couldn't all benefit from some translated/rewritten in >english type books from sources below. :-) > >andrew perry >andrew@shoal.net.au > >HOSOKAWA Tatsumi wrote: >> >> In article <1535.853468003@time.cdrom.com> >> jkh@time.cdrom.com writes: >> >> >> The question is, what are we going to do about it? I'd love to write >> >> articles for every magazine on the planet, but I haven't got the >> >> time. :-( >> [ DELETED ] Yes, you are correct. Greg Lehey did write "The Complete FreeBSD" and a damn fine book at that. I have it on good authority that Greg is working on another FreeBSD book. The problem still remains. The average person trying out a free UNIX is going to walk into a computer bookstore and be confronted with dozens of Linux books and __ONE__ FreeBSD book. Not to mention the hundreds of WinLose books. For guys like me who cut their teeth on 4.3BSD running on VAXen 11/750 the lack of howto books for my favorite OS is not a real problem. If I have a question on how something works I'll just read the source. The rest of the planet that has this thing called "a life" wants a book that will explain how to mount a CD, etc. What we really need is a FreeBSD equivalent of a VW repair manual I used to use called, "How to keep you VW alive, A step-by-step guide for the complete idiot." A magazine about FreeBSD would also be nice. Hell, even Byte and PC (what-ever-it's-called) has toned down their fawning over microsloth and started reporting about Linux. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Laugh while you can, monkey boy ! | FreeBSD 2.1.6 jgrosch@sirius.com | - John Warfin - | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 02:44:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA22752 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA22747 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:44:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA11461; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:44:17 -0800 (PST) To: Annelise Anderson cc: Amancio Hasty , Michael Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:39:16 PST." Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:44:16 -0800 Message-ID: <11447.853497856@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My view is that phone-in tech support (as an initial contact) is > an inherently flawed approach. You cannot possibly pay what anyone > good enough can get doing other work (nor would they want to do it). > It is especially problematic with a small staff. The person who So you think that the customer won't insist on talking to a human being as an initial contact? I guess I really don't have a good feel for how customers regard email as an effective support tool these days. If they're comfortable with the idea of just sending a message into the void and expecting some sort of timely response back from us, well, I guess I certainly won't argue. I'm just not entirely certain of that latter point. > But the point is really to do something rather than nothing, and > starting with phone-in tech support from an office is sufficiently > daunting in terms of costs and organization that it is unlikely to > get done at all. And it seems important that something be offered, > even if it is not perfect. So, I guess what you're saying is that there are already enough bodies who are willing to work through a company like FreeBSD, Inc that we could present a credible tech support picture to FreeBSD sites? Hmmmmm. And who's going to be the business manager for this again? This sounds suspiciously like a lot of ongoing paperwork. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 03:27:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA24457 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA24452 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00301; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:27:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701171127.DAA00301@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Annelise Anderson , Michael Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:44:16 PST." <11447.853497856@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:27:38 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of "Jordan K. Hubbard" : > Hmmmmm. And who's going to be the business manager for this again? > This sounds suspiciously like a lot of ongoing paperwork. :-) Hi Jordan, Just periodically ask cause you may be surprised who is on the mailing list. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 05:10:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA28393 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 05:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA28388 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 05:10:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id FAA02935 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 05:09:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA00329 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:33:07 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id JAA18768; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:43:43 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:43:42 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] References: <199701170014.TAA17309@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701170014.TAA17309@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Jan 16, 1997 19:14:56 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > Sadly, yes. I wonder how they kept congruency with Solaris/Sparc. > > Did they add an fdisk table to the latter, in order to keep the same > > terminology? :) > > No, they added an fdisk table to the x86. Yes, and by this, they changed the use of the term `partition' from their native partitions to the fdisk ones, so they also had to change the name of their native partitions to `slice'. Now their terminology does no longer match the Sparc version. We didn't change terms, but added the term `slice' for the fdisk-table units. Now we are consistent with the BSD tradition, but inconsistent with some other operating systems on the x86 platform. Needless to say, there's no way to ``do the right thing'' here. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 08:15:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA10983 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.126]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA10958 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:15:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.8.4/8.8.2) id BAA09405; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:11:59 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:11:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199701171611.BAA09405@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: andrew@shoal.net.au Cc: chat@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:37:37 +1000. <32DF2C41.212C@shoal.net.au> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.19PL2] 1996-01/26(Fri) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <32DF2C41.212C@shoal.net.au> andrew@shoal.net.au writes: >> Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Greg Lehey put out a book called The >> Complete FreeBSD? Available from Walnut Creek. My memory being destroyed >> daily by thousands of beer molecules i apologise if i have credited the >> wrong person with this book. 8) Sorry, I didn't intended to abuse upon this book. Of course I have it and I think it's a very good FreeBSD book. But, "a book" can't be "the best book for everyone". I meant that it's important for people who is interested in PC-UNIX that good book"s" and magazine"s" about FreeBSD always exist on the shelf of bookstores, and FreeBSD can be installed from the CDROMs attached to these books and magazines. I think magazines (especially, with CDROM) are the best media to advertise our system. It distributes tens of thousand copies of FreeBSD, even to the people who has little knowledge about FreeBSD. This is the tactical :-) reason why I wrote an article about FreeBSD on a most popular magazine of UNIX in Japan. Because of the histrical reasons, there were many FreeBSD users in Japan, but we lost many old users and most of new users in 1995 and early 1996. But now we get a large number of new users comparable to Linux again (still less than Linux, but it grows larger and larger). I think that publications are very important to get users. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp hosokawa@jp.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 08:23:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA11465 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA11456 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from dolphin.inna.net (jamie@dolphin.inna.net [206.151.66.2]) by tyger.inna.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17829; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:33:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:22:09 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: HOSOKAWA Tatsumi , gjennejohn@frt.dec.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-Reply-To: <2437.853482056@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If I can find the time, I would love to write something up. I don't have any coding skills to donate, but throw me some subject matter, and I will see what I can do. As an admin for an ISP whose primary mail/radius/dns server has a 135 day uptime, I am always looking for ways to thank you guys for the great job. On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Some FreeBSD users in Japan have wrote, and are writing FreeBSD books > > and magazine articles (last year, people in jp.freebsd.org talked > > about what we lack, and the conclusion is that it's good books and > > localized documentation. Japanese/Chinese sysinstall, Japanese > > Handbook, and Japanese online manual are the results of this > > discussion). This is the list of Japanese books and magazines about > > FreeBSD published in the fourth quarter of 1996. > > ... > > [Long list of cites which puts American and European efforts to shame] > > ... > > Perhaps, now what people need is good English book about FreeBSD :-). > > > No kidding! > > C'mon, all you native writers of english out there, we're being > completely shown up by jp.freebsd.org here, and they probably did more > in the 4th quarter of 1996 than we did for the entire year! :-) > > I think it's time for us to get off the stick, eh guys? :) > > I will commit here and now to having an article in at least one > well-known english language publication before Q2 of '97. I've also > already committed to helping Walnut Creek CDROM publish a regular > FreeBSD newsletter (for which all contributions will be highly > welcomed, BTW) which will be sent to all people on their mailing list > who've ever purchased a FreeBSD CDROM. > > Whomever would like to join me in doing PR this coming year is more > than encouraged to do so. > > Jordan > Jamie Bowden Network Administrator, TBI Ltd. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 09:46:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA16367 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from kilgour.nething.com (kilgour.nething.com [204.253.210.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA16359 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from randy.nething.com (randy.nething.com [204.253.210.83]) by kilgour.nething.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01705; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:44:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970117114446.00b95560@nething.com> X-Sender: rberndt@nething.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 beta 4 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:44:50 -0600 To: Michael Smith , wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) From: Randy Berndt Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS Cc: chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:51 PM 1/17/97 +1030, Michael Smith wrote: >Bill Paul stands accused of saying: >> > > >> > > Any noise on our chances wrt. this yet? >> >> Tread carefully. Keep your head down. Don't talk to any strangers. >> Remember the Alamo. > >Three of four. What's the Alamo? (note domain) > See the URL below. "Remember the Alamo" was one of the rallying cries of the Texas Revolution from Mexico. Before Texas became part of the United States, it was an independent country (some say it still is....) http://www.lsjunction.com/events/alamo.htm Randy Berndt ---------------------------------- AOS/VS, FreeBSD, DOS: I'm caught in a maze of twisty little command interpreters, all different. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 10:24:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA17552 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:24:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns.pinpt.com (dns.pinpt.com [205.179.195.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA17547 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from journeyman (gatemaster.pinpt.com [205.179.195.65]) by dns.pinpt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA00987; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:23:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 10:01:45 Pacific Standard Time From: "Sean J. Schluntz" Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Annelise Anderson Cc: Amancio Hasty , chat@FreeBSD.org, Michael Smith X-Mailer: Chameleon ATX 6.0, Standards Based IntraNet Solutions, NetManage Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <11447.853497856@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > My view is that phone-in tech support (as an initial contact) is > > an inherently flawed approach. You cannot possibly pay what anyone > > good enough can get doing other work (nor would they want to do it). > > It is especially problematic with a small staff. The person who I disagree with this. This is the whole reasoning behind multi-teared tech support. You have a couple people who are just above basic users. People who want to work part time around school or full time as an entry level person. These 'first level' people would have all of the information that we have at their fingertips. A local copy of the archives would probably be a good idea instead of relying on the Internet. You could also build a database as time goes by with answers to questions that you had a hard time finding. The call would come in to a 'first level' person, who would take down all of the various information about the person who was calling in (Call back if the call gets lost, CC info or support contract number.), the system information and the problem that they are having. At that point the tech should have a clue if this is something that they can take a shot at. If it is they can do a system look up on the problem and if they have any good info pass that on to the person ('Easy' stuff that is already documented. ) if they can't get the info they could tell the person that some one will get back in touch with them in the next hour (Or what ever) and the go to a look up sheet. The look up sheet would be a list of FBSD coders and techies who want to make a bit of extra money. For each of them would be a list of contact numbers, times they are available and what areas they know about. You would then contact one of them and give them the information about the problem. They would contact the customer and help them with the problem. After it was resolved they would 'report back' via eMail form or something else so we know the resolution and can put it in the database. If they don't know the resolution they can bring someone else in as well. There are many other things you could do to stream line it all and such. > So you think that the customer won't insist on talking to a human > being as an initial contact? I guess I really don't have a good feel > for how customers regard email as an effective support tool these > days. If they're comfortable with the idea of just sending a message > into the void and expecting some sort of timely response back from us, > well, I guess I certainly won't argue. I'm just not entirely certain > of that latter point. It won't work to a lot of people. Many corporate customers _need_ the person-to-person contact. Besides, if the FBSD system is down and that is their eMail how are they going to get in touch? Having gone to support conferences and listed to the thoughts of many who are in companies bigger and smaller than the one I am and none of them were thinking of removing the voice contact part of ther support. We have been encouraging our customers to use eMail here, but even with that only about 1/8th of our customer contact is through eMail. > > But the point is really to do something rather than nothing, and > > starting with phone-in tech support from an office is sufficiently > > daunting in terms of costs and organization that it is unlikely to > > get done at all. And it seems important that something be offered, > > even if it is not perfect. > > So, I guess what you're saying is that there are already enough bodies > who are willing to work through a company like FreeBSD, Inc that we > could present a credible tech support picture to FreeBSD sites? > > Hmmmmm. And who's going to be the business manager for this again? > This sounds suspiciously like a lot of ongoing paperwork. :-) It is a fair amount of paperwork. You just have to have someone willing to work for it. If you all are really interested in doing this give me a call, 'lets do lunch' as they say. You're in Concord right Jordan? I'm out there at least once every other week. -Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean J. Schluntz Manager, Support Services ph. 408.997.6900 x222 PinPoint Software Corporation fx. 408.323.2300 6155 Almaden Expressway, Suite 100 San Jose, CA. 95120 http://www.pinpt.com/ Local Time Sent: 01/17/97 10:01:46 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 11:08:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA20057 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:08:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu (franc.ucdavis.edu [128.120.8.183]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA20048 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.8.4/UCD3.8.4) id LAA18817; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) id LAA02365; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:08:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:08:23 -0800 From: obrien@cs.ucdavis.edu (David O'Brien) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Partition naming [Was: Adding Hard Drives - Prepping] References: <199701170014.TAA17309@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.57-PL4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: deobrien@ucdavis.edu Organization: The NUXI *BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 In-Reply-To: ; from J Wunsch on Jan 17, 1997 09:43:42 +0100 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > As Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > > > Sadly, yes. I wonder how they kept congruency with Solaris/Sparc. > > > Did they add an fdisk table to the latter, in order to keep the same > > > terminology? :) > > > > No, they added an fdisk table to the x86. > > Yes, and by this, they changed the use of the term `partition' from > their native partitions to the fdisk ones, so they also had to change > the name of their native partitions to `slice'. Now their terminology > does no longer match the Sparc version. Is it really that far off? Since disks under Solaris are /dev/dsk/c0t3d0s2 ==> controler 0, scsi target 3, disk 0 (ie. lun), and *slice* 2. [/dev/sd0c in the SunOS world] So maybe that's why they picked it the way they did. > Needless to say, there's no way to ``do the right thing'' here. Agreed. -- -- David (deobrien@ucdavis.edu) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 12:22:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA23590 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:22:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA23580 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA24230 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:21:41 -0800 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA07959; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:16:17 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199701172016.PAA07959@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:16:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701170521.PAA17479@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 17, 97 03:51:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Michael Smith had to walk into mine and say: > Bill Paul stands accused of saying: > > > > > > > > Any noise on our chances wrt. this yet? > > > > Tread carefully. Keep your head down. Don't talk to any strangers. > > Remember the Alamo. > > Three of four. What's the Alamo? (note domain) The Alamo is where General George Armstrong Custer and his troops were slaughtered by indians. In other words, if you see a hail of arrows heading your way, move as fast as you can in the other direction. Custer didn't. Now he's a famous idiot. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 12:43:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA24576 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:43:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA24570 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:43:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA29322 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:43:23 -0800 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA07991; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:38:22 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199701172038.PAA07991@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:38:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701170521.PAA17479@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 17, 97 03:51:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Michael Smith had to walk into mine and say: > Bill Paul stands accused of saying: > > > > > > > > Any noise on our chances wrt. this yet? > > > > Tread carefully. Keep your head down. Don't talk to any strangers. > > Remember the Alamo. > > Three of four. What's the Alamo? (note domain) *smack* You know what they say about us Americans being stupid. It's true. I was thinking of the Little Big Horn when I mentioned Custer. Bah. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 13:01:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA25237 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:01:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from perki0.connect.com.au (perki0.connect.com.au [192.189.54.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA25217 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by perki0.connect.com.au id IAA27004 (8.7.6h/IDA-1.6); Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:01:03 +1100 (EST) >Received: from localhost.nemeton.com.au (localhost.nemeton.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by nemeton.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA09750; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:31:58 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701172031.HAA09750@nemeton.com.au> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Annelise Anderson , Amancio Hasty , Michael Smith , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-reply-to: <11447.853497856@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:31:58 +1100 From: Giles Lean Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:44:16 -0800 "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > So you think that the customer won't insist on talking to a human > being as an initial contact? I'm very dubious -- this is fine for the -xyz option is wrong in the manual page, but not so good for "my fileserver has rebooted three times today". Try telling the Operations Manager "I've mailed the problem report off ...". My own experience of emailed problem reports is good (HP), OK (pair.com, ISP who hosts my web page) and BAD (my local ISP, who is about to field an official talk-to-the-support-manager complaint). Has anyone official from FreeBSD Inc. (dobbing in Jordan :) spoken to Pencom? They run the AnswerDesk, "... an open systems support service by and for the working system administrator.". Maybe open systems already includes FreeBSD? (I guess this is Pencom's payback for the "free" beer at LISA. :) http://www.pencom.com/psa/answer.html info@pencom.com +1 (512) 343 1111 Regards, Giles From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 13:20:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA26258 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA26249 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA05003; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:19:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:19:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701172119.OAA05003@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Bill Paul Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS In-Reply-To: <199701172016.PAA07959@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> References: <199701170521.PAA17479@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199701172016.PAA07959@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Paul writes: > The Alamo is where General George Armstrong Custer and his troops were > slaughtered by indians. *laugh* Bill, you may be a great hacker, but a historian you're not. The Alamo (as explained before) is/was in Texas, and is where a bunch of folks were killed by Mexican 'invaders'. Custer's last stand (ie; the battle of the Little Big-Horn) happened clear on the other end of the US, up close to where I live in Montana, about 100 miles from Canada. That's where Chief Sitting Bull and a boatload of other Indians who were fleeing from the Cavalry decided they had had enough of being chased. (They may have thought they were safely in Canada, but history is muddy at this point). When attacked they responded in like manner and killed Custer and his relatively speaking small band of soldiers. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 13:35:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA27809 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:35:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from kilgour.nething.com (kilgour.nething.com [204.253.210.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA27786 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:34:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from randy.nething.com (randy.nething.com [204.253.210.83]) by kilgour.nething.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA03134; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:33:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970117153341.006d2828@nething.com> X-Sender: rberndt@nething.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 beta 4 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:33:43 -0600 To: Bill Paul , msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) From: Randy Berndt Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS Cc: chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:16 PM 1/17/97 -0500, Bill Paul wrote: >Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Michael Smith >had to walk into mine and say: > >> Bill Paul stands accused of saying: >> > > > >> > > > Any noise on our chances wrt. this yet? >> > >> > Tread carefully. Keep your head down. Don't talk to any strangers. >> > Remember the Alamo. >> >> Three of four. What's the Alamo? (note domain) > >The Alamo is where General George Armstrong Custer and his troops were >slaughtered by indians. In other words, if you see a hail of arrows >heading your way, move as fast as you can in the other direction. Custer >didn't. Now he's a famous idiot. > >-Bill > >-- >============================================================================= >-Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu >Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research >Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City >============================================================================= > "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" >============================================================================= > > W R O N G ! ! ! W R O N G ! ! ! W R O N G ! ! ! W R O N G ! ! ! Leave it to someone from New Yaahhhk to foul it up :) I believe the "geographically-challenged" Mr. Paul was referring to "The Little Big Horn", the final battle site for General Custer. The real lesson of the Little Big Horn is "Never Piss Off Indians When They Outnumber You Ten To One", whereas the real lesson of the Alamo is "Never Piss Off Texans, Even If You Outnumber Them Ten To One". Randy Berndt ---------------------------------- AOS/VS, FreeBSD, DOS: I'm caught in a maze of twisty little command interpreters, all different. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 13:42:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA28209 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:42:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA28204 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA06683; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:36:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:36:44 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Amancio Hasty , Michael Smith , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-Reply-To: <11447.853497856@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > My view is that phone-in tech support (as an initial contact) is > > an inherently flawed approach. You cannot possibly pay what anyone > > good enough can get doing other work (nor would they want to do it). > > It is especially problematic with a small staff. The person who > > So you think that the customer won't insist on talking to a human > being as an initial contact? I guess I really don't have a good feel > for how customers regard email as an effective support tool these > days. If they're comfortable with the idea of just sending a message > into the void and expecting some sort of timely response back from us, > well, I guess I certainly won't argue. I'm just not entirely certain > of that latter point. I think what you have to offer is a world-wide network of experts; and ultimately these experts are going to be contacted by electronic mail. Initial contact by telephone can be done cheaply by an answering service--which is just like the doctor's answering service. Someone will call you later. Or it can be done expensively with a couple of graduate students in an office. They might be able to answer some questions but if it's a sophisticated problem they're going to send out electronic mail too. > > > But the point is really to do something rather than nothing, and > > starting with phone-in tech support from an office is sufficiently > > daunting in terms of costs and organization that it is unlikely to > > get done at all. And it seems important that something be offered, > > even if it is not perfect. > > So, I guess what you're saying is that there are already enough bodies > who are willing to work through a company like FreeBSD, Inc that we > could present a credible tech support picture to FreeBSD sites? Actually this is a question you are better able to answer than I. But it does seem that there are a lot of experts reading the FreeBSD mailing lists (and many of them answering questions); and quite a few of them might be willing to read another mailing list with the possibility of getting paid for answering questions. > > Hmmmmm. And who's going to be the business manager for this again? > This sounds suspiciously like a lot of ongoing paperwork. :-) You should probably break down the tasks of a "business manager" and figure out what you really need. Maybe like this: --someone who does the billing and someone (preferably someone else) who writes the checks and keeps the books. Most of this can be done electronically (I could describe in more detail how I think it might work) but I don't see it as a lot of ongoing paperwork. There are good bookkeeping programs for DOS/Windows some of which will even generate tax returns for you. :) These are the jobs of a controller and a treasurer, if we want to give them names. (The controller can also send out the request for evaluation of service received.) --doing sales pitches, negotiating contracts: this may be a sort of "business manager" type of job, but actually this should be geographically distributed--someone writes in and says we'd like to talk about your commercial support; they can phone or visit someone in the area. The basic task here is to answer the messages. --management: basically management shouldn't have any ongoing tasks except a) watching the mailing list and intervening if something seems not to be going well and b) reading the evaluation reports and taking appropriate action. What you have to do to get this going is a little more complicated; the experts have to be lined up and a contract has to be signed; you have to decide on the corporate structure and its ownership (possibly stock options or whatever for the experts); and you have to develop a description of the service and write it up. In terms of contacting potential customers, it would seem that FreeBSD has superb mailing lists for doing this! And you need a contract for customers to sign. It would be very helpful to have a lawyer to work on some of this; probably the most expensive part unless you use the part ownership/ stock option carrot. -- > > Jordan > Annelise From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 15:29:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA04892 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:29:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from fedex.mpd.tandem.com (fedex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.250.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA04883; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rolex.mpd.tandem.com (rolex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.1]) by fedex.mpd.tandem.com (8.8.4/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA27060; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:28:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de (greylan2.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.28.38]) by rolex.mpd.tandem.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA29303; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:29:10 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id MAA00582; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:27:55 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701161827.MAA00582@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Commercial Applications?? In-Reply-To: from "Jay D. Nelson" at "Jan 13, 97 10:54:24 pm" To: jdn@qiv.com (Jay D. Nelson) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:27:54 -0600 (CST) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Questions), chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (follow up to -chat; this is no longer appropriate stuff for -questions). Jay D. Nelson writes: > Why not just say "A production quality Unix for IBM PCs" or something > similar. (Is *nix or clone more politically correct?) Mentioning Linux > at all suggests that Linux is somehow best of breed. FreeBSD offers me > what Linux doesn't and Linux offers some things that FreeBSD doesn't. This might be a possible alternative. Yes, the name UNIX is a trade mark or some such, but you'll notice the text on the top of the cover: "FreeBSD turns your PC into a powerful UNIX workstation". Maybe we could tone down the reference to Linux. > BTW, I don't think a daemon with sneakers _or_ a penguin does much for > the marketing effort. `Maudie Frick' will never use Unix knowingly, > and the post-pubescent whacker will go for the wildest and > wackiest. Your market is really the individual who already knows Unix > or a beginner who knows something of the history. I'll let others decide about penguins and platypuses, but the daemon has a long history (see pages xvii to xxi of the Preface for more details). It has appeared on a number of very serious computer science books, notably "The Design and Implementation of the 4.3BSD UNIX system", "The Design and Implementation of the 4.BSD system" (note the missing UNIX; thanks, lawyers), and "TCP/IP Illustrated" Volumes II and III. I feel honoured to be allowed to have it on my comparatively low-tech book. > Market tradition, maturity and stability. I have to support AIX and at > least half the code has a UCB copyright on it. Unix -- as it's known > today -- wouldn't exist without BSD! The same goes for System V. > My compliments to the FreeBSD team. To make this good a system that > runs on the whore's nightmare of contemporary PC hardware is a truly > remarkable achievement! Agreed. The FreeBSD team has done a remarkable job. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 15:30:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA04985 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:30:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from fedex.mpd.tandem.com (fedex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.250.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA04970 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:30:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rolex.mpd.tandem.com (rolex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.1]) by fedex.mpd.tandem.com (8.8.4/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA27039; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:28:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de (greylan2.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.28.38]) by rolex.mpd.tandem.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA29291; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:29:02 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id MAA00593; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:30:04 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701161830.MAA00593@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Commercial Applications?? In-Reply-To: from Snob Art Genre at "Jan 13, 97 11:55:32 pm" To: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:30:04 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Snob Art Genre writes: > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Oh. I thought this was a good compromise between "Linux-bashing" and >> introducing as succinctly as possible what the book was all about. >> Some of the alternatives I heard were rather radical, and I didn't >> think that was appropriate. If anybody has a different suggestion >> about how to attract the attention of a half-disinterested browser in >> a bookshop, I'd appreciate it, and I know Walnut Creek would too. >> > > Most browsers will be completely disinterested; Sure, that's why I restricted the target to half-disinterested browsers. > however, you might get the attention of an *un*interested browser by > claiming to have the most extensively beat-upon networking code in > existence . . . that *is* true, isn't it? :) It's true, but how do you sum that up in a couple of buzzwords? > I think a problem is that John Q. Public doesn't know why Berkeley > is a name to trust. Sure. That's just the point I'm trying to make. Mention Linux and you're more likely to catch his attention. *Then* you can show him why FreeBSD is so much better. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 15:30:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA05003 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fedex.mpd.tandem.com (fedex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.250.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA04986 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:30:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rolex.mpd.tandem.com (rolex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.1]) by fedex.mpd.tandem.com (8.8.4/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA27043; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:28:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de (greylan2.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.28.38]) by rolex.mpd.tandem.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA29294; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:29:03 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id MAA00560; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:15:01 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701161815.MAA00560@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Abmahnung In-Reply-To: <199701140224.TAA00780@xmission.xmission.com> from Softweyr LLC at "Jan 13, 97 07:24:47 pm" To: softweyr@xmission.com (Softweyr LLC) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:15:00 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Softweyr LLC writes: > % Hmm? I read "Abmahnung" as 'dissuasion' or something similar implying a > % warning away from something. >> >> No, it's an active legal term. There's a very good German word, >> "Warnung", for what you're talking about. I don't think "Abmahnung" >> has a translation because the action itself is so despicable. > > Knowing how Germanic roots work in English, the literal translation > is probably "Admonition." It has the connotation of a warning > (warnung) that borders on preaching or harping. Knowing how legal people work anywhere, I'd say your linguistic derivations are on shaky ground. There's also a word "Verwarnung" which comes closer to admonition, though in legal usage both are associated with a fee. >> As if that weren't bad enough, the ostensible copyright infringement >> is not even for the word Triton--it's something vaguely similar. He's >> on very thin ice, and I'm surprised that no group has formed to >> prosecute him. > > It probably wouldn't stand up in the USA, where a fairly direct > conflict is required to prove trademark infringement. That's something positive, anyway. > I've often wondered if I could make a fortune by buying a bunch of > Geo Metros, knocking the badgework off, and re-marketing them as > "MS-Car97." Sure. Wait until Gates sues you, plead bankruptcy and sell your story to the news media :-) Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 15:35:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA05356 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:35:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from fedex.mpd.tandem.com (fedex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.250.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA05329; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:35:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rolex.mpd.tandem.com (rolex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.1]) by fedex.mpd.tandem.com (8.8.4/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA27248; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:34:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de (greylan2.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.28.38]) by rolex.mpd.tandem.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA29372; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:34:30 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id MAA00582; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:27:55 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701161827.MAA00582@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Commercial Applications?? In-Reply-To: from "Jay D. Nelson" at "Jan 13, 97 10:54:24 pm" To: jdn@qiv.com (Jay D. Nelson) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:27:54 -0600 (CST) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Questions), chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (follow up to -chat; this is no longer appropriate stuff for -questions). Jay D. Nelson writes: > Why not just say "A production quality Unix for IBM PCs" or something > similar. (Is *nix or clone more politically correct?) Mentioning Linux > at all suggests that Linux is somehow best of breed. FreeBSD offers me > what Linux doesn't and Linux offers some things that FreeBSD doesn't. This might be a possible alternative. Yes, the name UNIX is a trade mark or some such, but you'll notice the text on the top of the cover: "FreeBSD turns your PC into a powerful UNIX workstation". Maybe we could tone down the reference to Linux. > BTW, I don't think a daemon with sneakers _or_ a penguin does much for > the marketing effort. `Maudie Frick' will never use Unix knowingly, > and the post-pubescent whacker will go for the wildest and > wackiest. Your market is really the individual who already knows Unix > or a beginner who knows something of the history. I'll let others decide about penguins and platypuses, but the daemon has a long history (see pages xvii to xxi of the Preface for more details). It has appeared on a number of very serious computer science books, notably "The Design and Implementation of the 4.3BSD UNIX system", "The Design and Implementation of the 4.BSD system" (note the missing UNIX; thanks, lawyers), and "TCP/IP Illustrated" Volumes II and III. I feel honoured to be allowed to have it on my comparatively low-tech book. > Market tradition, maturity and stability. I have to support AIX and at > least half the code has a UCB copyright on it. Unix -- as it's known > today -- wouldn't exist without BSD! The same goes for System V. > My compliments to the FreeBSD team. To make this good a system that > runs on the whore's nightmare of contemporary PC hardware is a truly > remarkable achievement! Agreed. The FreeBSD team has done a remarkable job. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 15:35:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA05448 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fedex.mpd.tandem.com (fedex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.250.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA05435 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:35:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rolex.mpd.tandem.com (rolex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.1]) by fedex.mpd.tandem.com (8.8.4/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA27230; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:33:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de (greylan2.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.28.38]) by rolex.mpd.tandem.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA29363; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:34:25 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id MAA00560; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:15:01 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701161815.MAA00560@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Abmahnung In-Reply-To: <199701140224.TAA00780@xmission.xmission.com> from Softweyr LLC at "Jan 13, 97 07:24:47 pm" To: softweyr@xmission.com (Softweyr LLC) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:15:00 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Softweyr LLC writes: > % Hmm? I read "Abmahnung" as 'dissuasion' or something similar implying a > % warning away from something. >> >> No, it's an active legal term. There's a very good German word, >> "Warnung", for what you're talking about. I don't think "Abmahnung" >> has a translation because the action itself is so despicable. > > Knowing how Germanic roots work in English, the literal translation > is probably "Admonition." It has the connotation of a warning > (warnung) that borders on preaching or harping. Knowing how legal people work anywhere, I'd say your linguistic derivations are on shaky ground. There's also a word "Verwarnung" which comes closer to admonition, though in legal usage both are associated with a fee. >> As if that weren't bad enough, the ostensible copyright infringement >> is not even for the word Triton--it's something vaguely similar. He's >> on very thin ice, and I'm surprised that no group has formed to >> prosecute him. > > It probably wouldn't stand up in the USA, where a fairly direct > conflict is required to prove trademark infringement. That's something positive, anyway. > I've often wondered if I could make a fortune by buying a bunch of > Geo Metros, knocking the badgework off, and re-marketing them as > "MS-Car97." Sure. Wait until Gates sues you, plead bankruptcy and sell your story to the news media :-) Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 15:35:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA05457 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:35:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from fedex.mpd.tandem.com (fedex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.250.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA05439 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rolex.mpd.tandem.com (rolex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.1]) by fedex.mpd.tandem.com (8.8.4/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA27225; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:33:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de (greylan2.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.28.38]) by rolex.mpd.tandem.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA29360; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:34:24 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id MAA00593; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:30:04 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701161830.MAA00593@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Commercial Applications?? In-Reply-To: from Snob Art Genre at "Jan 13, 97 11:55:32 pm" To: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:30:04 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Snob Art Genre writes: > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Oh. I thought this was a good compromise between "Linux-bashing" and >> introducing as succinctly as possible what the book was all about. >> Some of the alternatives I heard were rather radical, and I didn't >> think that was appropriate. If anybody has a different suggestion >> about how to attract the attention of a half-disinterested browser in >> a bookshop, I'd appreciate it, and I know Walnut Creek would too. >> > > Most browsers will be completely disinterested; Sure, that's why I restricted the target to half-disinterested browsers. > however, you might get the attention of an *un*interested browser by > claiming to have the most extensively beat-upon networking code in > existence . . . that *is* true, isn't it? :) It's true, but how do you sum that up in a couple of buzzwords? > I think a problem is that John Q. Public doesn't know why Berkeley > is a name to trust. Sure. That's just the point I'm trying to make. Mention Linux and you're more likely to catch his attention. *Then* you can show him why FreeBSD is so much better. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 17:24:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA12287 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from hits.net (hits.net [204.188.88.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA12282 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from graphics.comtest.com ([204.188.74.162]) by hits.net (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) with SMTP id PAA24628 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:26:45 -1000 Message-Id: <199701180126.PAA24628@hits.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Randal S. Masutani" Organization: ComTest Technologies, Inc. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:31:49 -1000 Subject: Reverse Telnetd Reply-to: randal@comtest.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know how i can get a reverse telnet server for my freebsd system? ComTest Technologies, Inc. 3049 Ualena St., Suite 1005 Honolulu, Hawaii 96819 From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 18:00:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA14229 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA14224 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA03661 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA11217; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:58:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:58:58 -0800 (PST) From: HCI To: Bill Paul cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS In-Reply-To: <199701172016.PAA07959@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Bill Paul wrote: > Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Michael Smith > had to walk into mine and say: > > > Bill Paul stands accused of saying: > > > > > > > > > > Any noise on our chances wrt. this yet? > > > > > > Tread carefully. Keep your head down. Don't talk to any strangers. > > > Remember the Alamo. > > > > Three of four. What's the Alamo? (note domain) > > The Alamo is where General George Armstrong Custer and his troops were > slaughtered by indians. In other words, if you see a hail of arrows > heading your way, move as fast as you can in the other direction. Custer > didn't. Now he's a famous idiot. > NOT! I think that was Little Big Horn. > -Bill > > -- > ============================================================================= > -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu > Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research > Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City > ============================================================================= > "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" > ============================================================================= > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 18:46:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA16695 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:46:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA16681 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05129; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:45:56 -0800 (PST) To: Bill Paul cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:16:16 EST." <199701172016.PAA07959@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:45:56 -0800 Message-ID: <5125.853555556@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The Alamo is where General George Armstrong Custer and his troops were > slaughtered by indians. In other words, if you see a hail of arrows Are you truly confusing the Alamo with Little Big Horn or are you deliberately and maliciously trying to make American history even more difficult to understand for our foreign readers? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 18:57:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA17064 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:57:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA17059 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:57:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id NAA22117; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:27:29 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701180257.NAA22117@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970117153341.006d2828@nething.com> from Randy Berndt at "Jan 17, 97 03:33:43 pm" To: rberndt@nething.com (Randy Berndt) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:27:28 +1030 (CST) Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Randy Berndt stands accused of saying: > > I believe the "geographically-challenged" Mr. Paul was referring to "The > Little Big Horn", the final battle site for General Custer. The real lesson > of the Little Big Horn is "Never Piss Off Indians When They Outnumber You > Ten To One", whereas the real lesson of the Alamo is "Never Piss Off > Texans, Even If You Outnumber Them Ten To One". And the real lesson of this thread is "never expect an American to understand subtle humour" 8) > Randy Berndt -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 20:06:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA19497 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA19491 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:06:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) id XAA14139; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:06:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:06:02 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Commercial Applications?? In-Reply-To: <199701161830.MAA00593@papillon.lemis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > Snob Art Genre writes: > > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >> Oh. I thought this was a good compromise between "Linux-bashing" and > >> introducing as succinctly as possible what the book was all about. > >> Some of the alternatives I heard were rather radical, and I didn't > >> think that was appropriate. If anybody has a different suggestion > >> about how to attract the attention of a half-disinterested browser in > >> a bookshop, I'd appreciate it, and I know Walnut Creek would too. > >> > > > > Most browsers will be completely disinterested; > > Sure, that's why I restricted the target to half-disinterested > browsers. I was just being pedantic. > > however, you might get the attention of an *un*interested browser by > > claiming to have the most extensively beat-upon networking code in > > existence . . . that *is* true, isn't it? :) > > It's true, but how do you sum that up in a couple of buzzwords? Hmm . . . "The best networking OS in the world"? > > I think a problem is that John Q. Public doesn't know why Berkeley > > is a name to trust. > > Sure. That's just the point I'm trying to make. Mention Linux and > you're more likely to catch his attention. *Then* you can show him > why FreeBSD is so much better. I can't argue with that, though, like the guy who started this thread, I hate that we even need to mention Linux. > Greg > Ben From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 20:57:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA21215 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from kilgour.nething.com (kilgour.nething.com [204.253.210.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA21206 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from randy.nething.com (randy.nething.com [204.253.210.83]) by kilgour.nething.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05727; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:53:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970117225409.006ab9d8@nething.com> X-Sender: rberndt@nething.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 beta 4 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:54:11 -0600 To: Michael Smith , rberndt@nething.com (Randy Berndt) From: Randy Berndt Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:27 PM 1/18/97 +1030, Michael Smith wrote: > >And the real lesson of this thread is "never expect an American to >understand subtle humour" 8) > Hey, we can understand subtle humo(u)r up here, we just haven't seen any evidence of it on this thread ;-) Randy Berndt ---------------------------------- AOS/VS, FreeBSD, DOS: I'm caught in a maze of twisty little command interpreters, all different. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 21:26:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA23495 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA23487 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id PAA22337; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:56:31 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701180526.PAA22337@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970117225409.006ab9d8@nething.com> from Randy Berndt at "Jan 17, 97 10:54:11 pm" To: rberndt@nething.com (Randy Berndt) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:56:30 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, rberndt@nething.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Randy Berndt stands accused of saying: > > > >And the real lesson of this thread is "never expect an American to > >understand subtle humour" 8) > > Hey, we can understand subtle humo(u)r up here, we just haven't seen any > evidence of it on this thread ;-) My point exactly. 8) > Randy Berndt -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 22:07:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA25270 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA25265 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:07:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) id BAA10515; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:07:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:07:07 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: "Sean J. Schluntz" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Sean J. Schluntz wrote: > > The call would come in to a 'first level' person, who would take down all of > the various information about the person who was calling in (Call back if the > call gets lost, CC info or support contract number.), the system information > and the problem that they are having. > > At that point the tech should have a clue if this is something that they can > take a shot at. If it is they can do a system look up on the problem and if > they have any good info pass that on to the person ('Easy' stuff that is > already documented. ) if they can't get the info they could tell the person > that some one will get back in touch with them in the next hour (Or what ever) > and the go to a look up sheet. > > The look up sheet would be a list of FBSD coders and techies who want to make > a bit of extra money. For each of them would be a list of contact numbers, > times they are available and what areas they know about. You would then > contact one of them and give them the information about the problem. They > would contact the customer and help them with the problem. After it was > resolved they would 'report back' via eMail form or something else so we know > the resolution and can put it in the database. > > If they don't know the resolution they can bring someone else in as well. > There are many other things you could do to stream line it all and such. > So in other words, the customer sends a recursive problem-resolution request to the first-level tech, who can then look up and send non-recursive requests to any more advanced users who are authoritative for that type of problem. Reminds me of something, I can't think what. :) > > -Sean > Ben From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 17 23:21:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA29268 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cedar.netten.net (root@cedar.netten.net [205.244.191.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA29263 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:21:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from redpoint.com (wok4-10.memphis.edu [141.225.224.90]) by cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA16810 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:32:53 -0600 Message-ID: <32E07AA7.2072@cedar.netten.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:24:23 -0600 From: Tracy Phillips X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: http://www.linuxware.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi, check out this site.... http://www.linuxware.com/ maybe we should do something like this for FreeBSD! Tracy Phillips tphilips@cedar.netten.net Unix is user friendly. Its just picky about who its friends are. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 01:52:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA04281 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:52:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA04276 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA21828; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:52:27 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id KAA24072; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:48:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:48:18 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: randal@comtest.com Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reverse Telnetd References: <199701180126.PAA24628@hits.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701180126.PAA24628@hits.net>; from Randal S. Masutani on Jan 17, 1997 15:31:49 -1000 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Randal S. Masutani wrote: > Does anyone know how i can get a reverse telnet server for my freebsd > system? Curious: what do you expect it to do? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 04:47:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA09173 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:47:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from wakko.gil.net (keithl@wakko.gil.net [207.100.79.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA09167 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:47:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (keithl@localhost) by wakko.gil.net (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA08369; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:48:16 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:48:15 -0500 (EST) From: Keith Leonard To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-Reply-To: <2437.853482056@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, Just stumbled across http://www.samag.com (System Administrator Mag) and they have a publishing calendar and call for papers. My last couple of issues have been mentioning Linux alot and this might be a good place to get FreeBSD in the public eye (at least all those SAs) Just a thought - these Japanese gentlemen seem to speak (type?) pretty good english, how about setting up a deal to have them translate the articles and books for the American and English speaking market. I'm sure that an American publisher would pick up the option and except for translation most of the work is already done - which would mean an early release date. The above may just be a dumb idea induced by a series of sleepless night, if so please disregard. Keith keithl@gil.net ------------------------------------------------------ Character is what you are in the dark - John Warfin ------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 06:06:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA11252 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA11247 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA05507; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:06:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701181406.GAA05507@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Tracy Phillips cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.linuxware.com/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:24:23 CST." <32E07AA7.2072@cedar.netten.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:06:06 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yea, we had a site like that but better at TFS (Trw Financial Systems). It was a blast 8) Now , we need a couple more sites like "ref" which shouldn't be too bad to provide now days except of course for the bandwidth that such a site may incur and even that can be limited by asking developers not to eat up network bandwith. Regard Amancio >From The Desk Of Tracy Phillips : > hi, > > check out this site.... > > http://www.linuxware.com/ > > maybe we should do something like this for FreeBSD! > > Tracy Phillips > tphilips@cedar.netten.net > Unix is user friendly. Its just picky about who its friends are. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 09:22:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA20422 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA20414 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:22:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id MAA28236; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:23:29 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:21:33 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:21:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199701181721.MAA21769@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: jgrosch@sirius.com CC: andrew@shoal.net.au, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199701170821.AAA14181@superior.truenorth.org> (message from Josef Grosch on Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:21:34 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What we really need is a FreeBSD equivalent of a VW repair manual I used to > use called, "How to keep you VW alive, A step-by-step guide for the > complete idiot." A magazine about FreeBSD would also be nice. Hell, even > Byte and PC (what-ever-it's-called) has toned down their fawning over > microsloth and started reporting about Linux. FreeBSD For Dummies? The Idiot's Guide to FreeBSD? Or, if we want to get a little more advanced, FreeBSD Kernel Internals For Dummies? -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 09:30:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA20931 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:30:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA20926 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id MAA28450; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:31:44 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:29:56 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:29:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199701181729.MAA21775@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <11447.853497856@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> My view is that phone-in tech support (as an initial contact) is >> an inherently flawed approach. You cannot possibly pay what anyone >> good enough can get doing other work (nor would they want to do it). >> It is especially problematic with a small staff. The person who > So you think that the customer won't insist on talking to a human > being as an initial contact? I guess I really don't have a good feel > for how customers regard email as an effective support tool these > days. If they're comfortable with the idea of just sending a message > into the void and expecting some sort of timely response back from us, > well, I guess I certainly won't argue. I'm just not entirely certain > of that latter point. It depends on the level of user. For the level of user for whom we need to provide paid tech support, a telephone contact is vital. I currently work as a hacker and tech support for my company (not the FSF), and the first few minutes of most of my tech calls are spent trying to calm down the user into a rational state of mind and reassure them that the sky is not falling. The most common type of tech support is called `handholding' for a reason. Mind you, this is based on my experience at the college help desk and my current company, which is aimed at small non-computer-literate businesses. Most people running FreeBSD will probably have a certain amount of computer experience and are beyond being scared of the computer. (I say that, then think about a lot of the new Linux crowd... hmmm...) > So, I guess what you're saying is that there are already enough bodies > who are willing to work through a company like FreeBSD, Inc that we > could present a credible tech support picture to FreeBSD sites? If you're counting, although I don't know FreeBSD as well as many others here, I still present a warm body with good tech support capabilities and experience. > Hmmmmm. And who's going to be the business manager for this again? That guy over there. Away from me. -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 09:39:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA21380 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA21370; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:39:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id MAA28556; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:40:59 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:39:11 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:39:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199701181739.MAA21794@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: chat@freebsd.org, grog@lemis.de CC: jdn@qiv.com, questions@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199701161827.MAA00582@papillon.lemis.de> (message from Greg Lehey on Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:27:54 -0600 (CST)) Subject: Re: Commercial Applications?? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Why not just say "A production quality Unix for IBM PCs" or something >> similar. (Is *nix or clone more politically correct?) Mentioning Linux >> at all suggests that Linux is somehow best of breed. FreeBSD offers me >> what Linux doesn't and Linux offers some things that FreeBSD doesn't. > This might be a possible alternative. Yes, the name UNIX is a trade > mark or some such, IANALB: If I recall correctly, Unix was never a *registered* trademark, which means that although AT&T tried to grab more of a share by making it a trademark, it has no legal force. -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 09:46:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA21651 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA21644 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id MAA28644; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:48:21 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:46:33 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:46:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199701181746.MAA21810@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: benedict@echonyc.com CC: schluntz@pinpt.com, chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Snob Art Genre on Sat, 18 Jan 1997 01:07:07 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> The call would come in to a 'first level' person, who would take >> down all of the various information about the person who was >> calling in (Call back if the call gets lost, CC info or support >> contract number.), the system information and the problem that >> they are having. At that point the tech should have a clue if >> this is something that they can take a shot at. If it is they can >> do a system look up on the problem and if they have any good info >> pass that on to the person ('Easy' stuff that is already >> documented. ) if they can't get the info they could tell the >> person that some one will get back in touch with them in the next hour >> (Or what ever) and the go to a look up sheet. The look up sheet >> would be a list of FBSD coders and techies who want to make a bit >> of extra money. For each of them would be a list of contact numbers, >> times they are available and what areas they know about. You would then >> contact one of them and give them the information about the problem. They >> would contact the customer and help them with the problem. After it was >> resolved they would 'report back' via eMail form or something else >> so we know the resolution and can put it in the database. >> If they don't know the resolution they can bring someone else in as well. >> There are many other things you could do to stream line it all and such. > So in other words, the customer sends a recursive problem-resolution > request to the first-level tech, who can then look up and send > non-recursive requests to any more advanced users who are authoritative > for that type of problem. Not not necessarily non-recursive requests. Multi-tiered support means many tiers, not necc 2. If the first contact can't answer the question, it will probably go to the most knowledgable person present, then some random guru somewhere else, then to one of the heavy wizards, or something like that. Since FreeBSD wizards aren't well-ordered, then there exists a possible halting problem here, but that's nothing a well-balanced dose of nonreality couldn't deal with. Cheers, joelh -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 10:38:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA23212 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:38:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA23207 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id NAA29213; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:40:20 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:38:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:38:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199701181838.NAA21880@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au CC: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199701170521.PAA17479@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> (message from Michael Smith on Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:51:24 +1030 (CST)) Subject: Re: Netscape and NIS From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>> Any noise on our chances wrt. this yet? >> Tread carefully. Keep your head down. Don't talk to any strangers. >> Remember the Alamo. > Three of four. What's the Alamo? (note domain) The Alamo is the site of what is probably the most significant event in Texas history. When Texas was fighting for its independance from Mexico, several missions were converted into forts. One such mission was the Alamo, in San Antonio, on the Yanaguana river. At this site, the soldiers fought off Santa Anna's army for, well, I can't remember how long but it was a long time. After it became clear that supplies were running low, and reinforcements wouldn't arrive in time, Col. Travis drew a line in the dirt with his sword. He said that there would be no survivors (Santa Anna had already blown no quarter), but if the Alamo did not keep off the army then Texas would surely lose the war. Except for one mercenary, every man crossed the line, including the already-crippled Jim Bowie, and the American legend Davy Crockett. Although the Alamo ultimately fell, these men staying behind and defended it made it possible for Texas to prepare its forces against Santa Anna's onslaught. After that, the cries of the Texas army, "Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!" were heard as Texas fought for-- and eventually won-- its independance from Mexico. Best, joelh -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 10:58:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA23723 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:58:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.risc.org (alpha.risc.org [206.248.178.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA23715 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (taob@localhost) by alpha.risc.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA12734; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:57:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:57:20 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Giles Lean cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Annelise Anderson , Amancio Hasty , Michael Smith , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-Reply-To: <199701172031.HAA09750@nemeton.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Giles Lean wrote: > > I'm very dubious -- this is fine for the -xyz option is wrong in the > manual page, but not so good for "my fileserver has rebooted three > times today". Try telling the Operations Manager "I've mailed the > problem report off ...". That's why we need a proper trouble ticketing system and a defined problem escalation policy. If the phone tech can't solve it within an hour, it goes to 2nd level. If they can't solve it within 4 hours, it goes to a "software engineer" (or whatever would pass as an S.E. in this imaginary organization). If another four hours pass, wake up the gurus. If after a 24-hour period, absolutely no headway has been made, I guess we can give the customer Jordan's home phone number. ;-) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 11:03:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA23899 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:03:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA23894 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:03:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA04696; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:02:53 -0800 (PST) To: Brian Tao cc: Giles Lean , Annelise Anderson , Amancio Hasty , Michael Smith , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:57:20 EST." Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:02:52 -0800 Message-ID: <4692.853614172@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > this imaginary organization). If another four hours pass, wake up the > gurus. If after a 24-hour period, absolutely no headway has been > made, I guess we can give the customer Jordan's home phone number. ;-) Oh, I *like* this plan, pray continue! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 11:05:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA24001 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:05:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA23986 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:04:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id OAA29563; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:06:23 -0500 Received: by kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/4.0) id ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:04:34 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:04:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199701181904.OAA21940@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: taob@risc.org CC: giles@nemeton.com.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Brian Tao on Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:57:20 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Giles Lean wrote: >> I'm very dubious -- this is fine for the -xyz option is wrong in the >> manual page, but not so good for "my fileserver has rebooted three >> times today". Try telling the Operations Manager "I've mailed the >> problem report off ...". > That's why we need a proper trouble ticketing system and a defined > problem escalation policy. If the phone tech can't solve it within an > hour, it goes to 2nd level. If they can't solve it within 4 hours, it > goes to a "software engineer" (or whatever would pass as an S.E. in > this imaginary organization). If another four hours pass, wake up the > gurus. If after a 24-hour period, absolutely no headway has been > made, I guess we can give the customer Jordan's home phone number. ;-) Ever seen GNATs? -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Fourth law of computing: Anything that can go wro .signature: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 12:43:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA28175 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:43:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.risc.org (alpha.risc.org [206.248.178.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA28168 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:43:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (taob@localhost) by alpha.risc.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA12990; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:40:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:40:25 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: giles@nemeton.com.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-Reply-To: <199701181904.OAA21940@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > Ever seen GNATs? Of course... what do you think FreeBSD uses for problem tracking? :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 13:26:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29568 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:26:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (root@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA29561 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:26:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from grfpc1 (monty-port11.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.21]) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA11058; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:27:09 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32E14D5F.148D@shoal.net.au> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:23:27 +1000 From: Andrew Perry X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) References: <199701181721.MAA21769@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > > What we really need is a FreeBSD equivalent of a VW repair manual I used to > > use called, "How to keep you VW alive, A step-by-step guide for the > > complete idiot." A magazine about FreeBSD would also be nice. Hell, even > > Byte and PC (what-ever-it's-called) has toned down their fawning over > > microsloth and started reporting about Linux. > > FreeBSD For Dummies? The Idiot's Guide to FreeBSD? Or, if we want to > get a little more advanced, FreeBSD Kernel Internals For Dummies? > Sounds good to me. I like the Dummies books :-) Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 17:42:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA11622 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:42:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA11576 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:41:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from freeside.fc.net (reclaimed.agis.net) by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA16164 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:38:44 -0800 Received: from rider.fc.net (rider.fc.net [206.224.74.198]) by freeside.fc.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA22115; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:35:48 -0600 Received: from papillon.lemis.de (papillon.lemis.de [192.109.197.159]) by rider.fc.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA05121; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:37:52 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id MAA00541; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:18:31 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701181818.MAA00541@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) In-Reply-To: <1535.853468003@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 16, 97 06:26:43 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:18:30 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >> maybe this should really be moved to chat ? > > Done > >> I talked to a German journalist at a trade show last year (from iX, >> one of the better UNIX rags here), and basically told him that they >> had too much of a Linux bent. His reply was basically "we can't publish >> articles we don't have." > > Precisely. > >> The German magazines seem to think that there are only 4 OSes: DOS, >> WINDOWS, NT and Linux. Whenever they talk about a non-M$ OS (although >> one can argue that M$ doesn't have any real OS), then it's ALWAYS Linux. >> Even the UNIX rags are like that. > > I think this is our fault more than anything else. As you just noted, > if nobody provides them with articles to publish about FreeBSD then > the OS world is going to look somewhat smaller to someone in the > publishing business. I don't have a problem with writing articles about FreeBSD. I *do* have a problem with iX, for whom I wrote a number of articles (including, to the best of my knowledge, the very first article in any magazine about BSD/386). I find the people stubborn, arrogant and stupid. I have therefore decided not to have anything to do with them again. > The question is, what are we going to do about it? I'd love to write > articles for every magazine on the planet, but I haven't got the > time. :-( Well, yes, maybe I have that problem. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 21:18:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA18930 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from oldman.steinkamm.com (arne@OldMan.Steinkamm.COM [194.127.175.225]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA18921 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from arne@localhost) by oldman.steinkamm.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id GAA10148; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 06:18:26 +0100 (MET) From: Arne Steinkamm Message-Id: <199701190518.GAA10148@oldman.steinkamm.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) To: grog@lemis.de Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 06:18:26 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701181818.MAA00541@papillon.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 18, 97 12:18:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > >> maybe this should really be moved to chat ? > > > > Done > > > >> I talked to a German journalist at a trade show last year (from iX, > >> one of the better UNIX rags here), and basically told him that they > >> had too much of a Linux bent. His reply was basically "we can't publish > >> articles we don't have." > > > > Precisely. > > > >> The German magazines seem to think that there are only 4 OSes: DOS, > >> WINDOWS, NT and Linux. Whenever they talk about a non-M$ OS (although > >> one can argue that M$ doesn't have any real OS), then it's ALWAYS Linux. > >> Even the UNIX rags are like that. > > > > I think this is our fault more than anything else. As you just noted, > > if nobody provides them with articles to publish about FreeBSD then > > the OS world is going to look somewhat smaller to someone in the > > publishing business. > > I don't have a problem with writing articles about FreeBSD. I *do* > have a problem with iX, for whom I wrote a number of articles > (including, to the best of my knowledge, the very first article in any > magazine about BSD/386). I find the people stubborn, arrogant and > stupid. I have therefore decided not to have anything to do with them > again. Funny... long ago i ask exactly the same magazine about printing my paper about the BSD Unixes... And guess what: The answer was: No, all people are speaking about linux, there's no need for a BSD article. My answer: You're the press, the people speak about that, what you write... Then i asked someone else working in the same publishing house about this and he said: As long as the Heise publishing house makes it's money with the linux CDs distributed by it's daughter company e-media, there will be not much BSD topics inside it.. So long.. .//. Arne -- Arne Steinkamm | Mail (MIME): Arne@Steinkamm.COM IRC: Arne Tel.: +49.89.299.756 | URL: http://WWW.Steinkamm.COM/ NIC-Handle: AS306 Robert-Koch-Str. 4 | "There's coffee in that nebula" D-80538 Muenchen | Cptn. Kathryn Janeway, ST:VOY - The Cloud From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 18 23:40:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA22179 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 23:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (root@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA22170 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 23:40:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from grfpc1 (monty-port2.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.12]) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA15660 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:42:06 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32E1DD7B.2EF1@shoal.net.au> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:38:19 +1000 From: Andrew Perry X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation tools...) References: <199701190518.GAA10148@oldman.steinkamm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well lets just find another magazine and give them a few FreeBSD ISP success stories and see if any lights switch on!!! I may be oversimplifying (am ofter guilty!!) but these people seem to respond best to market pressure. I'll be looking for magazines now is Australia and priming brain with suitable ideas for a reader article (all suggestions welcome!!!). Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au Arne Steinkamm wrote: > > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > >> maybe this should really be moved to chat ? > > > > > > Done > > > > > >> I talked to a German journalist at a trade show last year (from iX, > > >> one of the better UNIX rags here), and basically told him that they > > >> had too much of a Linux bent. His reply was basically "we can't publish > > >> articles we don't have." > > > > > > Precisely. > > > > > >> The German magazines seem to think that there are only 4 OSes: DOS, > > >> WINDOWS, NT and Linux. Whenever they talk about a non-M$ OS (although > > >> one can argue that M$ doesn't have any real OS), then it's ALWAYS Linux. > > >> Even the UNIX rags are like that. > > > > > > I think this is our fault more than anything else. As you just noted, > > > if nobody provides them with articles to publish about FreeBSD then > > > the OS world is going to look somewhat smaller to someone in the > > > publishing business. > > > > I don't have a problem with writing articles about FreeBSD. I *do* > > have a problem with iX, for whom I wrote a number of articles > > (including, to the best of my knowledge, the very first article in any > > magazine about BSD/386). I find the people stubborn, arrogant and > > stupid. I have therefore decided not to have anything to do with them > > again. > > Funny... long ago i ask exactly the same magazine about printing my paper > about the BSD Unixes... > And guess what: The answer was: No, all people are speaking about linux, there's > no need for a BSD article. > My answer: You're the press, the people speak about that, what you write... > > Then i asked someone else working in the same publishing house about this and > he said: As long as the Heise publishing house makes it's money with the > linux CDs distributed by it's daughter company e-media, there will be not > much BSD topics inside it.. > > So long.. > > .//. Arne > > -- > Arne Steinkamm | Mail (MIME): Arne@Steinkamm.COM IRC: Arne > Tel.: +49.89.299.756 | URL: http://WWW.Steinkamm.COM/ NIC-Handle: AS306 > Robert-Koch-Str. 4 | "There's coffee in that nebula" > D-80538 Muenchen | Cptn. Kathryn Janeway, ST:VOY - The Cloud