From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 01:57:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA12067 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 01:57:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12056 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 01:57:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id KAA18047; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:45:53 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) id KAA27645; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:30:29 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970309103029.22464@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:30:29 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: dg@root.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: AMD K6 [ was Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge ] References: <19970308103520.57937@klemm.gtn.com> <199703082320.PAA11518@root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.64_p3-9,11-13,16-17,20-23,25-27 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-GAMMA Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Mar 08, 1997 at 03:20:01PM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > > [me] > >Does that mean, that the Pentium Pro has a build in heat sensor ? ;-) > > Yes, actually. I don't recall in which section of the PPro hardware > manual this is documented, but it does indeed have a temperature sensor > that shuts the chip down before it exceeds the level that would cause > permanent damage. I was quite surprised when I read about this... Well, sounds nice to me. BTW, heard interesting things about AMD's K6. Currently I dislike Intels marketing strategy how they push the Klamath, which is performing bad compared to the PPro ... And Intels new Level one slot for "mainly" Intel CPU's ... I think you read already yourself about it ... Do you think, that AMD's soon coming K6 would be a good choice, since it allows insertion into a ZIF 7 socket... What do you think, will FreeBSD / gcc support the new CPU without problems ? Any clues ? Should I wait for the K6 or buy a PPro based board now ? Heard a rumour, that AMD is going to make a chipset of their own, that will allow bus speeds up to 100MHz. Cc'd to chat, maybe some other folks have more infos upon this ;-) Wish you a nice sunday ! Andreas /// -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 03:14:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14820 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 03:14:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14811 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 03:14:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA13329; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 03:15:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703091115.DAA13329@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Andreas Klemm cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 [ was Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge ] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 Mar 1997 10:30:29 +0100." <19970309103029.22464@klemm.gtn.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 03:15:30 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Well, sounds nice to me. BTW, heard interesting things about AMD's K6. >Currently I dislike Intels marketing strategy how they push the >Klamath, which is performing bad compared to the PPro ... And Intels >new Level one slot for "mainly" Intel CPU's ... I think you read already >yourself about it ... I haven't heard much about it. It's probably too soon to make any judgements about the performance of Intel's "Pentium II" stuff. >Do you think, that AMD's soon coming K6 would be a good choice, since >it allows insertion into a ZIF 7 socket... This might be a reasonable way to go as long as you don't need SMP. >What do you think, will FreeBSD / gcc support the new CPU without >problems ? Any clues ? Should I wait for the K6 or buy a PPro >based board now ? We'll have to wait and see, but I suspect that it will work just fine. The price of P6's has come down so much that I don't see any reason to delay. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 05:05:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA19985 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 05:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA19979 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 05:05:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id NAA04481; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:47:52 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) id NAA19278; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:30:13 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970309133012.58367@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:30:12 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: dg@root.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 [ was Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge ] References: <19970309103029.22464@klemm.gtn.com> <199703091115.DAA13329@root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.64_p3-9,11-13,16-17,20-23,25-27 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-GAMMA Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Mar 09, 1997 at 03:15:30AM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > > We'll have to wait and see, but I suspect that it will work just fine. > The price of P6's has come down so much that I don't see any reason > to delay. Hmm, whats the best price for a PPro in the US ? Here in Germany you have to pay about $625 (DM 1050.-) for a 200MHz PPro CPU with 256k cache ($1 ~ DM 1.68) Currently I'm unsure, what to do. a) Buy a SMP board now, that's currently well supported by FreeBSD b) Wait for faster PPro chipsets, is there something in the queue for PPros ? Regarding 100MHz bus clock and better memory performance ? I think I will choose the Tyan Titan Pro with one or two processors, because our hardware manufacturer has a good contact to Tyan. If there is something bad with the board I'd have a good chance to get it exchanged ... And what about Ram ? I think 60ns EDO Ram with parity is currently best buy ... Although I like the idea to get fast SDRAM, but I fear, that this isn't currently supported by the Natoma Chipset. Another draw back is, that the board wouldn't support the K6 Chip. Does somebody know a Pentium Pro Mainboard (single or dual processor) that supports SDRAM and K6 Processors ? Or for what would I have to wait ... ;-) -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 07:55:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA26235 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 07:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26230 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 07:55:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA03937; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 07:55:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 07:55:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: David Greenman cc: Andreas Klemm , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 [ was Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge ] In-Reply-To: <199703091115.DAA13329@root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, David Greenman wrote: > I haven't heard much about it. It's probably too soon to make any > judgements about the performance of Intel's "Pentium II" stuff. Unless they change the chip, we've got benchmarks that don't look too good. > This might be a reasonable way to go as long as you don't need SMP. > > >What do you think, will FreeBSD / gcc support the new CPU without > >problems ? Any clues ? Should I wait for the K6 or buy a PPro > >based board now ? > > We'll have to wait and see, but I suspect that it will work just fine. The > price of P6's has come down so much that I don't see any reason to delay. I think the current price/performance breaking curve is currently at a PPro 150 (unless you use a lot of 16 bit apps). Depending on quality and shopping ability, a PPro 150 and Natoma motherboard will run $400-$500, and the PPro 150 is 3/3 for safely overclocking to 166, which gets you the 33Mhz PCI bus. Actually, 2 of the PPros I've played around with ran at 180, at least well enough to do make a kernel and run same kernel. Yes, I know I'm a bad boy. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 07:59:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA26325 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 07:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26320 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 07:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA03943; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 07:58:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 07:58:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Andreas Klemm cc: dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 [ was Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge ] In-Reply-To: <19970309133012.58367@klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Hmm, whats the best price for a PPro in the US ? PPro 150 - $209 PPro 180 ~ $459 PPro 200 ~ $640 The 180 and 200 are an "as I remember it", since I wasn't actually shopping for them, > Currently I'm unsure, what to do. > a) Buy a SMP board now, that's currently well supported > by FreeBSD > b) Wait for faster PPro chipsets, is there something in > the queue for PPros ? Regarding 100MHz bus clock and > better memory performance ? Scuttlebutt is that the PPro ends at 200Mhz, because Intel wants everyone to switch over to Slot One technology, so they get a stranglehold on the market. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 08:11:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA26783 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 08:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from hellcat.umd.edu (hellcat.umd.edu [129.2.70.125]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26763 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 08:11:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.22]) by hellcat.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12419; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 11:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) with SMTP id LAA13750; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 11:11:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: maryann.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 11:11:16 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Andreas Klemm cc: dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 [ was Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge ] In-Reply-To: <19970309133012.58367@klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, Andreas Klemm wrote: > I think I will choose the Tyan Titan Pro with one or two processors, > because our hardware manufacturer has a good contact to Tyan. If > there is something bad with the board I'd have a good chance to get > it exchanged ... > > And what about Ram ? I think 60ns EDO Ram with parity is currently > best buy ... Although I like the idea to get fast SDRAM, but I fear, > that this isn't currently supported by the Natoma Chipset. > > Another draw back is, that the board wouldn't support the K6 Chip. You seem to be interested in SMP, so I will post this warning, CPUs other than the Intel don't use Intel's IOAPIC design. Both the FreeBSD software, and all available support chipsets in multiprocessor boards like the Titan Pro, only support the Intel IOAPIC. If you get the K6, then give up the notion of 2 processors. It won't fly. > Does somebody know a Pentium Pro Mainboard (single or dual processor) > that supports SDRAM and K6 Processors ? > > Or for what would I have to wait ... ;-) > > -- > andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de > pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 08:52:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA29977 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 08:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29968 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 08:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA13945 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:52:09 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id RAA04250 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:51:52 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.5/keltia-uucp-2.9) id RAA10892; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:49:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19970309174921.38885@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:49:21 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (FWD) Re: rc5 stats References: <19970307104557.BJ13698@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.64/1-3,6,8,10-38 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2999 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to David O'Brien: > I noticed that my clients haven't gotten any keys since yesterday > afternoon, yet he is getting plenty. So I wrote him: Has the whole thing stopped or what ?? I can't get to connect to zero.genx.net anymore :-( -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb 2 22:12:44 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 09:31:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01580 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 09:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01575 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 09:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id SAA20055; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 18:16:14 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) id RAA00890; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:51:48 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970309175148.04089@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:51:48 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Chuck Robey Cc: dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 [ was Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge ] References: <19970309133012.58367@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.64_p3-9,11-13,16-17,20-23,25-27 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-GAMMA Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Mar 09, 1997 at 11:11:16AM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > > You seem to be interested in SMP, so I will post this warning, CPUs other > than the Intel don't use Intel's IOAPIC design. Both the FreeBSD > software, and all available support chipsets in multiprocessor boards like > the Titan Pro, only support the Intel IOAPIC. If you get the K6, then > give up the notion of 2 processors. It won't fly. Ok, thanks ! -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 10:05:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA03070 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [128.120.175.23]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03065 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (reqf-059.ucdavis.edu [128.120.253.179]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA16374; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:09:19 GMT Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA24996; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 18:05:40 GMT Message-ID: <19970309100539.29571@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:05:39 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Ollivier Robert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (FWD) Re: rc5 stats References: <19970307104557.BJ13698@dragon.nuxi.com> <19970309174921.38885@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65_p0 Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com X-Warning: Mutt Bites! Organization: The NUXI *BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has the whole thing stopped or what ?? Nope. > I can't get to connect to zero.genx.net anymore :-( A common occurance. :-( This morning I finally got keys. One suggestion someone made here is to run 5-6 copies (niced 20 of course). So either you always have a client trying to get keys, and you might get in when the opptunity arrises, or if you hit at good time, you are garenteed a long run. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 10:07:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA03176 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:07:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [128.120.175.23]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03171 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:07:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (reqf-059.ucdavis.edu [128.120.253.179]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA16382; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:11:13 GMT Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA25008; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 18:07:34 GMT Message-ID: <19970309100733.55699@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:07:33 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Andreas Klemm Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 [ was Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge ] References: <19970309103029.22464@klemm.gtn.com> <199703091115.DAA13329@root.com> <19970309133012.58367@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65_p0 Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com X-Warning: Mutt Bites! Organization: The NUXI *BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Mar 09, 1997 at 01:30:12PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Does somebody know a Pentium Pro Mainboard (single or dual processor) > that supports SDRAM and K6 Processors ? Probably not. The K6 is a pin-for-pin drop-in for the Pentium chip/motherboards. BTW, has anyone heard the latest on when they are comming out? And expected price? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 9 12:48:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11034 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:48:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11029 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.5/8.8.3) with UUCP id VAA09629; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 21:46:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id VAA15447; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 21:42:29 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970309214139.00d0f940@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 21:41:40 +0100 To: Wes Peters From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: CNET announces InterJet... Cc: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby), chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:05 PM 3/7/97 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >Jake Hamby writes: >> This is my one (and only) complaint with the InterJet, that it tries to >> shield the users from UNIX to the extent that it's not CAPABLE of adding in >> functionality like CGI scripts. For basic use, however, I'll agree that >> it's way cool for using FreeBSD. > >How 'bout the fact that it costs $2000, and you can do the same yourself >with a $500 machine and FreeBSD? I tried configuring the minimum of a machine I could purchase (P5 133, subtract keyboard, monitor, RAM, graphics card, but add UPS, cheapest net card, and modem) at www.gateway2000.com, as an example of what kind of configuration you can easily get hold of today to run such an application. $1245,- (I tried Dell, too - a bit more expensive, but in the same range) So you'd probably end up paying about $1000,- for hardware, as both offers included irrelevant software. I'd guess[1] configuring such a system to be usable (doing all administrative tasks 'by hand' thereafter) would take me between 1 and 3 days, depending on sophistication wished. Internally, that would cost between $350 and $1000. (I cost my company approx $40/hour). If employed as a consultant at my standard rates, it would cost between $1200 and $4000. I'd say the Whistle InterJet 2000 is a good deal. [1] I'm known to be wildly off in my time estimates, in both directions. Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 11 03:38:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA19244 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 03:38:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.muc.ditec.de (gw.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA19233 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 03:38:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by gw.muc.ditec.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id MAA00630; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:38:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from tartufo.muc.ditec.de(134.98.18.2) by gw.muc.ditec.de via smap (V2.0alpha) id sma000626; Tue Mar 11 12:37:47 1997 Received: by tartufo.muc.ditec.de (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Tue, 11 Mar 97 12:42 MET Message-Id: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 12:42 MET From: me@tartufo.muc.ditec.de (Michael Elbel) To: jehamby@lightside.com Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CNET announces InterJet... Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.chat References: <199703080815.AAA08340@hamby1> Reply-To: me@gw.muc.ditec.de X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To get this completely off the Subject: In lists.freebsd.chat you write: >One of my coworkers at JPL has designed an entire document management "intranet", >using CGI's in Perl connected to an mSQL database. While the prototype is quite >impressive, I can already see that there is NO way Perl will scale for this project >to work reasonably efficiently if this server is to be used by all of JPL. We are >seriously looking at Java servlets as a way to provide good speed (no context >switches needed); the servlet is only loaded and initialized once, and can then >serve many users simultaneously through threads, compared to perl which must be >reloaded and reparse the CGI every time it's called! We're quite happy with 'heitml' here. Kind of like PHP/FI, just better and more flexible. I wouldn't want to do anything on the web without it any more. We actually got them to port it to FreeBSD, so I may be a bit biased :) Have a look at http://www.h-e-i.de/heitml Or http://www.ditec.de/dis/mzwun for a complete, database driven, catalog written in heitml including user management, ordering etc. Michael -- Michael Elbel, DITEC, Muenchen, Germany - me@muc.ditec.de Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 11 17:31:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29422 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:31:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29417 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15190; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:31:25 -0800 (PST) To: "Steven G. Kargl" cc: eivind@dimaga.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting /usr/ports everywhere... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:26:34 PST." <199703111826.KAA04854@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:31:25 -0800 Message-ID: <15186.858130285@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As the medics carted Jordan off to the clinic, a faint voice was > heard chanting the mantra "Just one more fix, and I'll quit." Heh, you forget that I live near silicon valley - the local hospital has an entire ward dedicated to this, and at night you can hear the eerie cries of the programmers who are incarcerated there. Despite being thorazined and in full restraints, they still whimper and cry, clawing feebly for non-existant mice, each going through the sad and lonely hell of a junkie's withdrawal. I'm fine, Steven. Really. I've learned to take it one change at a time. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 12 13:18:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11836 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11831 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:18:13 -0800 (PST) From: johnr@computer.net Received: from ns.computer.net (ns.computer.net [205.198.160.4]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA14074 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.198.164.40] ([205.198.164.40]) by ns.computer.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA20044 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 16:15:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703122115.QAA20044@ns.computer.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:18:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: unsubscribe Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.32) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 13 07:57:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA04019 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04014 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05511; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:51:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:51:34 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: Terry Lambert cc: pam@polynet.lviv.ua, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Locale - is it possible to change on the fly? In-Reply-To: <199703121800.LAA27652@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > How many times have you seen web pages with the telltale signs of > > "smart quotes"? Box drawing characters that are portable across > > platforms? Wheee! Math symbols? Lots of people could use a > > richer set than + - / * and ^. > > You can't use Unicode for this... how can you attribute fonts on, for > instance, a Japanese www page on Chinese poetry? Any character sets > which have mutually unified code points that have different glyphs > can not be simultaneously represented without font attribution. The > Unicode standard is not a glyph encoding standard. In the current world, numerous glyph encodings are used to represent documents. Correct? These differing glyh encodings often share the code space, and thus it is essential that an encoding switch signal, a font tag for example, be present. In Unicode terms, these font tags constitute a "higher level protocol". If you need to convert that document's high level protocol, MS Word to HTML for example, the all-important encoding information stands a good chance of getting lost and/or mangled. If you used dingbats, math symbols, smart quotes, or any other encodings, you are SOL. Your document has just become rubbish. You suggest that Unicode has the same problem, and I'll agree but only to a limited extent. A Unicode document should have language tags for optimal rendering, processing, input method selection, etc., but if that information is lost in a high level protocol conversion, your document is hardly turned to rubbish! First, because of a unified character encoding, your smart quotes (0x201C, 0x201D) will never be mistaken for something else as they would be in the multiple glyph encoding schemes we have to use now. Second, although Unicode makes a clear distinction between character and glyph encoding, and Unicode is a character encoding, it is also true that many of the Unicode character blocks have a direct, language independent glyph mappings in practice. Certainly, other scripts do not have direct glyph mappings, and in some cases glyph mapping is affected by the language, but I hardly think this is grounds for rendering Unicode useless for multinational computing. In the absence of higher level protocols, you cannot handle all possible languages simultaneously, but you can easily handle a heck of a lot more than you can with the current current collection of glyh encoding standards. Is that not a contribution to multinational computing? Let me also re-state that Unicode by itself is not a complete multinational computing solution any more than US-ASCII is a complete solution for American English. I never stated it as such, and certainly never meant to imply it. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 13 10:19:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12482 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12476 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:19:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.5/8.8.3) with UUCP id TAA00335 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:18:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id TAA23209 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:06:28 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970313190451.00a40310@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:04:52 +0100 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Eivind Eklund Subject: "The competition" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -- Unlock the secret. You hack code in your sleep, dreaming in Perl and Java. Thousands of end-users know you as god, other sys admins contact you when they can't figure it out. To you, software development projects are a Simple Matter of Caffeine. You've mastered everything the internet can throw at you, nattled technology for a career, and won; and on the weekend, you tweak the kernel with a binary editor for relaxation. Now your OS supplied won't let you look at their source code. Trust them? Not anymore. Join the Revelution. Red Hat Linux. -- Full page ad in Sysadmin Magazine. I wish we could afford that. *sigh* Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 13 11:46:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA16891 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:46:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16881; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22484; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:45:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19215; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:47:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:47:41 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Eivind Eklund cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970313190451.00a40310@dimaga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > Join the Revelution. Red Hat Linux. > -- > > Full page ad in Sysadmin Magazine. I wish we could afford that. *sigh* You mean a spell-checker? That can't be too expensive, can it? :-) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 13 15:23:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26507 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 15:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.quick.net (soil@newport-1-11.quick.net [206.171.89.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26502 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 15:23:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (soil@localhost) by localhost.quick.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02191 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 15:23:33 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.quick.net: soil owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 15:23:33 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Gilliam To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD distribution by BBS Message-ID: X-IRC: soil X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-970205-GAMMA i386 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How about creating a www page similar to http://home.pages.de/~rasca/linuxbbs.html at www.freebsd.org so BBS can be a distribution method? Josh Gilliam -- soil@quick.net From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 13 22:40:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA01746 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01741; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA21059; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:40:58 -0800 (PST) To: Eivind Eklund cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:04:52 +0100." <3.0.32.19970313190451.00a40310@dimaga.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:40:58 -0800 Message-ID: <21055.858321658@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Full page ad in Sysadmin Magazine. I wish we could afford that. *sigh* We could, actually. It's not as hard as you think. The problem is simply that we don't have the kind of marketing manager who could come up with an advert like that and see it through to film and placement. It's definitely not one of my skills, and I know of no one in the project or at Walnut Creek CDROM who would be capable of putting together an advert polished enough to be worthy of a full pager in any magazine. Sad but true. I wish advertising people were the types to volunteer their time for such things, but that seems not to be the case so far. :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 01:02:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA08335 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 01:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from inter03.lion.net (dns.lion.net [206.175.32.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08330 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 01:02:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucky.lion.de ([192.109.89.2]) by inter03.lion.net (Netscape Mail Server v2.0) with SMTP id AAA8762; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:59:26 +0200 Received: from willi.lion.de by lucky.lion.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.1) id KAA24534; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:00:55 +0100 Received: from localhost by willi.lion.de (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA05471; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:00:45 +0100 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:00:44 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Haas To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Publicity (was: Re: "The competition") In-Reply-To: <21055.858321658@time.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Full page ad in Sysadmin Magazine. I wish we could afford that. *sigh* > > We could, actually. It's not as hard as you think. The problem is > simply that we don't have the kind of marketing manager who could come > up with an advert like that and see it through to film and placement. Hmm, can someone scan it and send it to me as a jpg ? I don't have access to that magazine here in Germany. Maybe I can ask one or two people to design such an ad. But don't rely on it, I don't know if my former school mates are willing to do it... > It's definitely not one of myskills, and I know of no one in the > project or at Walnut Creek CDROM who would be capable of putting > together an advert polished enough to be worthy of a full pager in any > magazine. But it can't be too difficult, can it ? I'm sure if one or two people with some "artistic" skills sit together with a pencil and some water colors they can create a nice advert. It doesn't have to be a "full sizer" right now, but a nice little advert (maybe half a page) would really help FreeBSD getting more popular. And I'm a volunteer if it comes to translating the advert into German. I think we really need more publicity. We (Joerg, Andreas Klemm and a few others) had a little discussion on the FreeBSD workshop that was part of the last GUUG meeting, and we all agreed that FreeBSD needs a good push. If we really bring up an advert and publish it in one or two big computer magazines in Europe (here in Germany that would mean c't [a magazine that favours the L-word operating system], iX and UnixOpen, I don't know the market in the States), I'm sure that a few hundred people would wake up and at least give FreeBSD a try. > Sad but true. I wish advertising people were the types to volunteer > their time for such things, but that seems not to be the case so > far. :( As I said above: there ARE a few artists out there (yes, I AM sure) that use FreeBSD (no, I'm not one of them, but I can give a few ideas). Come on, we need it... Christoph -- Christoph Haas o.tel.o GmbH | Never trust an operating UNIX Sysadmin Universitaetsstrasse 140| system you don't have the 44799 Bochum / Germany | sources for. (jw) mailto:haas@lion.de http://www.o-tel-o.de | http://www.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 05:55:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA19356 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 05:55:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA19332 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 05:55:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.5/8.8.3) with UUCP id OAA04860; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:54:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id OAA00220; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:21:22 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970314141936.0162a6a0@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:19:37 +0100 To: Tim Vanderhoek From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: "The competition" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:47 PM 3/13/97 -0500, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: >On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > >> Join the Revelution. Red Hat Linux. >> -- >> >> Full page ad in Sysadmin Magazine. I wish we could afford that. *sigh* > >You mean a spell-checker? That can't be too expensive, can it? My fault. Unfortuneatly - it would have been extremely cool to have caught it in their ad. (My only excuse is that it is spelled somewhat like the above in my native language - but that is far from good enough.) Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 05:56:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA19421 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 05:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA19408 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 05:56:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.5/8.8.3) with UUCP id OAA04865; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:54:28 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id OAA00292; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:32:52 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970314143106.01787de0@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:31:07 +0100 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: "The competition" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:40 PM 3/13/97 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Full page ad in Sysadmin Magazine. I wish we could afford that. *sigh* > >We could, actually. It's not as hard as you think. The last time my corporation paid for a similar ad (full page in a reasonably specialized trade magazine) I seem to remember paying about $15k. Unless we can get them to give us an _extremely_ cheap ad, I can't see how we can afford it if we can't even afford to replace spatter :-( >The problem is simply that we don't have the kind of marketing manager who >could come up with an advert like that and see it through to film and >placement. >It's definitely not one of my skills, and I know of no one in the >project or at Walnut Creek CDROM who would be capable of putting >together an advert polished enough to be worthy of a full pager in any >magazine. I have people here capable of doing the graphics/layout part, but I doubt I could get them to volunteer time to something they've barely heard of (even if they actually are using FreeBSD every day by accessing our server). Besides, that was a damn good text. We'd need somebody that both could come up with that kind of idea, have the technical insight, and can polish it off that way. My father have worked with writing ad copy, but don't have the technical side. >Sad but true. I wish advertising people were the types to volunteer >their time for such things, but that seems not to be the case so >far. :( The problem isn't that you can't get advertising people to volunteer for anything; that isn't too hard. The problem is to get advertising people to volunteer for doing things with FreeBSD; FreeBSD is technical, and advertising people are not. (Or at least those that I know) Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 07:52:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA24536 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from thelab.hub.org (hal-ns1-33.netcom.ca [207.181.94.97]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24530 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:51:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from thelab.hub.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA09498; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:51:20 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:51:20 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Eivind Eklund cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970314143106.01787de0@dimaga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > I have people here capable of doing the graphics/layout part, but I doubt I > could get them to volunteer time to something they've barely heard of (even > if they actually are using FreeBSD every day by accessing our server). > Besides, that was a damn good text. We'd need somebody that both could > come up with that kind of idea, have the technical insight, and can polish > it off that way. My father have worked with writing ad copy, but don't > have the technical side. > Brian?? Where are you? :) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 08:13:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA25493 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:13:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25488 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:13:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA05948; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:14:05 -0800 (PST) To: Christoph Haas cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Publicity (was: Re: "The competition") In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:00:44 +0100." Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:14:04 -0800 Message-ID: <5943.858356044@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But it can't be too difficult, can it ? I'm sure if one or two people with Yes, it really can. You ever wonder why it is that advertising agencies charge so much money for their services? :-) You need to have a reasonable 4 color ad with some eye-catching artwork and (most importantly) you need good *advertising copy* to describe the product in whatever marketspeak terms will generate the most sales. Then the whole thing needs to be laid out properly, so it all looks good and fits within the space constraints of the ad, and is pleasing to the appearance. I don't know... I've seen a team of 4 people work for 6 weeks just on the *rough draft* for a automobile advertisement, and they still weren't done. I think it's probably more work than you think. :-) Still, not to discourage you - I agree with all of your points about FreeBSD needing a big push, I'm just trying to make it clearer why this hasn't really happened yet despite everyone's awareness of the problem for over 3 years. Putting together good advertising is a LOT OF WORK. Just something to be aware of before you take on the job. :-) Perhaps if you and your friends did the art, some of the english speakers here could work on the advertising copy. I can give you guys my little press handout if you're looking for verbiage, though it's not going to be tremendously applicable to an advert that has to say the same thing in about 1/10 the number of words. That's an art. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 08:35:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA26898 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:35:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26893 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA06184; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:35:31 -0800 (PST) To: Eivind Eklund cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:31:07 +0100." <3.0.32.19970314143106.01787de0@dimaga.com> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:35:31 -0800 Message-ID: <6179.858357331@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > At 10:40 PM 3/13/97 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> Full page ad in Sysadmin Magazine. I wish we could afford that. *sigh* > > > >We could, actually. It's not as hard as you think. > > The last time my corporation paid for a similar ad (full page in a > reasonably specialized trade magazine) I seem to remember paying about > $15k. Unless we can get them to give us an _extremely_ cheap ad, I can't > see how we can afford it if we can't even afford to replace spatter :-( We don't. Walnut Creek CDROM does, and it's a more than effective advertising vehicle for them if the advertisement is done right (and it's an operating expense they can deduct from taxes :). It's simply, as I said before, the case that neither WC nor us have the kinds of personnel to handle advertising on that scale and so we don't do it. $15K is a lot cheaper than a full-time advertising exec, and that's what we *really* can't afford here. :-) > Besides, that was a damn good text. We'd need somebody that both could > come up with that kind of idea, have the technical insight, and can polish > it off that way. Exactly. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 09:13:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29210 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:13:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29201 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:13:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.5/8.8.3) with UUCP id SAA07639; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:11:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id SAA02044; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:15:43 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970314181355.015e0100@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:13:56 +0100 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: "The competition" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Eivind Eklund] >> Besides, that was a damn good text. We'd need somebody that both could >> come up with that kind of idea, have the technical insight, and can polish >> it off that way. [Jordan K. Hubbard] >Exactly. You're sitting at work. It's late at night, and there is just this _little_ tinkering you've got to do, just another dose. Real UNIX - you've become addicted, and there is no way to get the real stuff at home. You've tried Linux - doesn't feel right. You've tried the home version of SCO, but after 10 years of source, not having a source license gives you the willies. So, another night at the office. FreeBSD - you can come home again, at home. Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 09:46:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01212 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01205 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:46:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by bagpuss.visint.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22221; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:45:15 GMT Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:45:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Christoph Haas , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Publicity (was: Re: "The competition") In-Reply-To: <5943.858356044@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Still, not to discourage you - I agree with all of your points about > FreeBSD needing a big push, I'm just trying to make it clearer why > this hasn't really happened yet despite everyone's awareness of the > problem for over 3 years. Putting together good advertising is a LOT > OF WORK. Perhaps someone could do a workover on the www.freebsd.org and also the little 'powered by FreeBSD' logo needs a bit of updating, it's just not noticeable. Well, these are opinions, but you could get someone to do these probably for free (or for very little). This might not be advertising, but at least when someone sees a website with the logo on then they might be more inclined to click it and find out more. But then again, all this talk of advertising, I'd be worried about what sort of people you start attracting (could be more people like me and that would be a bad thing =) ) Steve. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 10:06:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA02405 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02397; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.5/8.8.3) with UUCP id TAA08445; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:04:11 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id TAA02633; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:10:36 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970314190848.00a97260@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:08:49 +0100 To: eivind@freebsd.org From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: "The competition" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 06:13 PM 3/14/97 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: >You're sitting at work. It's late at night, and there is just this >_little_ tinkering you've got to do, just another dose. Real UNIX - you've >become addicted, and there is no way to get the real stuff at home. You've >tried Linux - doesn't feel right. You've tried the home version of SCO, >but after 10 years of source, not having a source license gives you the >willies. So, another night at the office. > >FreeBSD - you can come home again, at home. Deleted another attempt at an ad text and tagline. That tagline should have read FreeBSD - get your fix at home. Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 14:20:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15237 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15230 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA13594 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:20:47 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA16970; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:16:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970314231633.YB26666@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:16:33 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/mk bsd.info.mk References: <19970314091224.12275@dragon.nuxi.com> <1536.858374359@critter.dk.tfs.com> <19970314132937.39695@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <19970314132937.39695@dragon.nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Mar 14, 1997 13:29:37 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David O'Brien wrote: > > It merely have to go like this to drive most people mad: > > > > FreeBSD bla bla > > bla bla > > boot: kernel.el > > text=0x4023453 \ > > Cool!, but you left out the "collecting garbage... please wait...". > Or whatever emacs says when it is starting up. :-) But then, it must start playing the tower of hanoi. :-)) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 14:21:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15294 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15282 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA13604 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:20:53 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA27461; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:57:44 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970314225743.NR34235@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:57:43 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Publicity (was: Re: "The competition") References: <5943.858356044@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <5943.858356044@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mar 14, 1997 08:14:04 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > But it can't be too difficult, can it ? I'm sure if one or two people with > > Yes, it really can. You ever wonder why it is that advertising > agencies charge so much money for their services? :-) Because they are the modern gods of the consumption society. Since every group of people needs a god to believe in, the sales droids believe in their gods, and send them victims. Now, there are almost no virgins left to victimize thesed days, thus they send their gods what sales droids believe is the most important good on earth: money. 50 % :-) Not to promise anything, but the advertising agency that once organized the BSD Daemon Plushies (LiebscherCo@t-online.de in case anybody wonders) is going FreeBSD these days, too, in order to have a Webserver. Well, maybe once they're happy FreeBSD customers, i could ask them for something in return... Let's see. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 22:27:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA07061 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07056 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:27:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA07970; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:27:52 -0800 (PST) To: Eivind Eklund cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:13:56 +0100." <3.0.32.19970314181355.015e0100@dimaga.com> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:27:52 -0800 Message-ID: <7967.858407272@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You're sitting at work. It's late at night, and there is just this > _little_ tinkering you've got to do, just another dose. Real UNIX - you've > become addicted, and there is no way to get the real stuff at home. You've > tried Linux - doesn't feel right. You've tried the home version of SCO, > but after 10 years of source, not having a source license gives you the > willies. So, another night at the office. > > FreeBSD - you can come home again, at home. Hmmmm. That's promising! :-) Another line that David came up with while we were at Uniforum after a user said (perhaps in the context of the GPL - I can't remember) "so with FreeBSD, there are no limits?" and David said: "FreeBSD - no limits!" I dunno, it sounded like a good slogan to us. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 14 23:39:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA09471 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from u1.farm.idt.net (root@u1.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09466 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequoia (ppp-47.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.47]) by u1.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA05483 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:38:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <332A524B.7C32@mail.idt.net> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:39:55 -0500 From: Gary Corcoran Reply-To: garycorc@idt.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" References: <7967.858407272@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Another line that David came up with while we were at Uniforum after a > user said (perhaps in the context of the GPL - I can't remember) "so > with FreeBSD, there are no limits?" and David said: "FreeBSD - no > limits!" > > I dunno, it sounded like a good slogan to us. :-) In general, I like it! But, maybe to "commercialize" it a little more: "FreeBSD - there are no limits to what you can do with it." Or, if you want to have the catch phrase "compete" a little more: (I think you'll know who I'm referring to) "FreeBSD - there are no limits to where it can take you..." Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 00:30:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA11199 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11194 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08740; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:30:53 -0800 (PST) To: garycorc@idt.net cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "The competition" In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:39:55 EST." <332A524B.7C32@mail.idt.net> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:30:53 -0800 Message-ID: <8736.858414653@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > "FreeBSD - there are no limits to what you can do with it." > ... > "FreeBSD - there are no limits to where it can take you..." Both far too long. A good slogan is brief. "Just do it." "Where do you want to go today?" "Coke is it"* All pretty short. Jordan * I actually included this last one as an example of the idea gone wrong. "Coke is *what*?" this slogan always made me wonder. Perhaps "coke" is neuter in all languages which have noun genders, and they're giving us non-natives a free tip? From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 01:01:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA11993 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 01:01:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from antares.aero.org (antares.aero.org [130.221.192.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11988 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 01:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (anpiel.aero.org [130.221.196.66]) by antares.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22439 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 01:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anpiel.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA09431 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:59:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703150859.AAA09431@anpiel.aero.org> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Nuances Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:59:49 -0800 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is interesting, and it's also good. Jordan, you're right, this is a good basic idea: "no limits". Ads must be targeted, and the narrower the audience the narrower the ad. Take a look at "Iron Age", if it's still published: a trade press publication for the steel construction industry. The ads are all masculine and are utterly incomprehensible. To be effective, a slogan must be short. "Just do it!" is a masterpiece of its type. Jordan's also right: "Coke is it!" ... isn't. (Isn't "it", that is.) By these lights the right slogan would be, "FreeBSD: No limits!" However, this sound more appropriate to selling high-ticket sneakers than an operating system. Our target audience is very narrow: those who specify an operating system. They have to a) know what one is, and b) know (or think they know, and as advertisers the last thing we want to do is disabuse them of this notion) enough about them to make such a decision. In a case like this, a more literate approach is probably better, at the cost of a few more words: FreeBSD: There are no limits. Picture a guy whose clothes look somewhat distressed breaking out of a cage made of Microsoft manuals. Hmmm? Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 01:26:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA12731 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 01:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from carlton.innotts.co.uk (root@carlton.innotts.co.uk [194.176.128.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12725 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 01:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [194.176.130.59] (serialA3a.innotts.co.uk [194.176.130.59]) by carlton.innotts.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03820; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:25:38 GMT X-Sender: robmel@mailhost.innotts.co.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8736.858414653@time.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:39:55 EST." <332A524B.7C32@mail.idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:25:33 +0000 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , garycorc@idt.net From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: "The competition" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:30 am -0800 15/3/97, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> "FreeBSD - there are no limits to what you can do with it." >> ... >> "FreeBSD - there are no limits to where it can take you..." > >Both far too long. A good slogan is brief. "Just do it." >"Where do you want to go today?" "Coke is it"* > >All pretty short. How about: "FreeBSD is free!" ... should raise some eyebrows. Other alternatives which spring to mind.. "FreeBSD yourself.." "FreeBSD! FreeBSD! Sweet Jesus.. we're FreeBSD at last!" or for more industry-related tastes "FreeBSD: the closest you can get to sex without actually having a life..." hmm, big problem. The word "FreeBSD" has awkward scansion. We need to bring in a rap consultant... *grin* Robin. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction Information Services Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team Tel: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 work: robmel@nadt.org.uk home: robmel@innotts.co.uk Pages: http://www.innotts.co.uk/~robmel (home page) http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt (substance misuse pages) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 01:43:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA13332 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 01:43:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from u1.farm.idt.net (root@u1.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13327 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 01:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequoia (ppp-47.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.47]) by u1.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA24085 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 04:43:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <332A6F95.1B96@mail.idt.net> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 04:44:53 -0500 From: Gary Corcoran Reply-To: garycorc@idt.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nuances References: <199703150859.AAA09431@anpiel.aero.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike O'Brien wrote: > In a case like this, a more literate approach is probably > better, at the cost of a few more words: > > FreeBSD: There are no limits. Agreed. This is the best suggestion so far - to the point and short enough to be a "catch phrase". Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 02:50:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA16280 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA16274 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA29448 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:50:30 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01085; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:21:28 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970315112128.SU45064@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:21:28 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" References: <3.0.32.19970314181355.015e0100@dimaga.com> <7967.858407272@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <7967.858407272@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mar 14, 1997 22:27:52 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Another line that David came up with while we were at Uniforum after a > user said (perhaps in the context of the GPL - I can't remember) "so > with FreeBSD, there are no limits?" and David said: "FreeBSD - no > limits!" > > I dunno, it sounded like a good slogan to us. :-) I love it. And well, i love it _way_ more than all the other suggestions that came up in the followups. You're right, it's simple and short. It's just the opposite of all these funny tables standing aside the US roads, explaining you the meaning of a yellow line in the middle of the road that's accompanied by another broken line on one side... explanations that take you 3 minutes to read. :-) This was in partic- ular funny for me coming from a European country where you are simply expected to know the meaning of these lines, since you had to prove you know this before when getting your driving license. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 03:26:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA17462 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 03:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from carlton.innotts.co.uk (root@carlton.innotts.co.uk [194.176.128.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA17456 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 03:26:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [194.176.130.25] (serialA18.innotts.co.uk [194.176.130.25]) by carlton.innotts.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10478; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:24:54 GMT X-Sender: robmel@mailhost.innotts.co.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199703150859.AAA09431@anpiel.aero.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:24:12 +0000 To: "Mike O'Brien" , chat@freebsd.org From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: Nuances Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id DAA17458 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:59 am -0800 15/3/97, Mike O'Brien wrote: > Jordan, you're right, this is a good basic idea: "no limits". >Ads must be targeted, and the narrower the audience the narrower the >ad. [...] > Our target audience is very narrow: those who specify an >operating system. They have to a) know what one is, and b) know (or >think they know, and as advertisers the last thing we want to do is >disabuse them of this notion) enough about them to make such a >decision. In a case like this, a more literate approach is probably >better, at the cost of a few more words: How about this for a first stab: "In a world of bloated systems and bloated prices; "In a world of corporate hype and mediocre products; "In a world of lock-ins, where everything you need is extra; "In a world where 'industrial strength' means string and sellotape; " "Did you ever dream of a system: " "that actually works as advertised? "that was built from the ground up to be clean, mean, and efficient? "that is so solid it will run for ever? "where *you* have control? " "We made your dream a reality. " "FreeBSD: the secret is out. Alternative slogans might be: "FreeBSD: Free software for a free world "FreeBSD: Your dream is our reality "FreeBSD: Share the dream or any similar cornball idea ;) I see the graphic as a clean green on white with black lettering. A good image might be a single tall pine towering over stunted shrubs or some such. Key messages are the "free" of FreeBSD implying multiple connotations of freedom from corporate hype/lockins/kludge, clean and different, uncluttered, streamlined, efficient and so on. A sort of return to pioneer enthusiasm. Just my 2pence.... Robin. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction Information Services Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team Tel: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 work: robmel@nadt.org.uk home: robmel@innotts.co.uk Pages: http://www.innotts.co.uk/~robmel (home page) http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt (substance misuse pages) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 03:33:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA17703 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 03:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA17697 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 03:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA02843; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 03:32:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703151132.DAA02843@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:21:28 +0100." <19970315112128.SU45064@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 03:32:46 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmmm... FreeBSD2.1 : A Hacking Odissey 8) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 05:28:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA23367 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 05:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (ip76-max1-fitch.ziplink.net [199.232.245.76]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA23362 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 05:28:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA14306; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:43:47 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199703151143.GAA14306@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Nuances In-Reply-To: from Robin Melville at "Mar 15, 97 11:24:12 am" To: robmel@innotts.co.uk (Robin Melville) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:43:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: obrien@antares.aero.org, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Before generating too much ad copy I suggest you list the at most three selling points you're trying to get across. Then derive the copy and see how it pushes them. For example: 1. Cooperative software development; 2. Examinable quality; 3. Backbone of the internet. BTW: The "no limits" plugline sounds better as I think it over. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 07:59:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA27638 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:59:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27633 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:59:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA25623; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:58:37 -0800 (PST) To: "Mike O'Brien" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nuances In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:59:49 PST." <199703150859.AAA09431@anpiel.aero.org> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:58:36 -0800 Message-ID: <25619.858441516@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > decision. In a case like this, a more literate approach is probably > better, at the cost of a few more words: > > FreeBSD: There are no limits. > > Picture a guy whose clothes look somewhat distressed breaking > out of a cage made of Microsoft manuals. > > Hmmm? I think we may be on to something. :-) I also agree that "no limits" is a little too brief. Your 4 word equivalent is better. Now we just need the "set up" copy which leads to this conclusion at the bottom of the ad. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 08:29:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA28724 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:29:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28718 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:29:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA25828; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:28:13 -0800 (PST) To: Peter Dufault cc: robmel@innotts.co.uk (Robin Melville), obrien@antares.aero.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nuances In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:43:46 EST." <199703151143.GAA14306@hda.hda.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:28:13 -0800 Message-ID: <25825.858443293@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Before generating too much ad copy I suggest you list the at most > three selling points you're trying to get across. Then derive > the copy and see how it pushes them. Erm, yes - thanks, Peter, for the snap back to reality. We are sort of going about this in the wrong order. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 09:18:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00509 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:18:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00501 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id RAA18367; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:31:39 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) id RAA04967; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:08:51 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970315170851.48751@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:08:51 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "The competition" References: <332A524B.7C32@mail.idt.net> <8736.858414653@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65_p2,4-7,10-11,15,18,21-22 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-GAMMA Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Mar 15, 1997 at 12:30:53AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > "FreeBSD - there are no limits to what you can do with it." > > ... > > "FreeBSD - there are no limits to where it can take you..." > > Both far too long. A good slogan is brief. "Just do it." > "Where do you want to go today?" "Coke is it"* FreeBSD is it FreeBSD - the way that Unix goes FreeBSD the cool touch FreeBSD the magic touch FreeBSD the way to make things work FreeBSD the way that makes things work FreeBSD the way FreeBSD for free FreeBSD finds ways FreeBSD the choice of a young generation FreeBSD the choice of a GNU generation FreeBSD the choice of a new generation FreeBSD the choice of Unix FreeBSD the best choice of Unix Hmmpf ;-) -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 10:25:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA03260 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:25:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03251 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03556; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:25:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703151825.KAA03556@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Andreas Klemm cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "The competition" In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:08:51 +0100." <19970315170851.48751@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:25:01 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cool choices I like: FreeBSD is it 8) > FreeBSD is it FreeBSD: It Came From The Net FreeBSD: Net Native FreeBSD: Net Highway 101 Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 11:20:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA05359 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05344 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:19:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA04540; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:19:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04244; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:21:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:21:47 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Joerg Wunsch cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" In-Reply-To: <19970315112128.SU45064@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > It's just the opposite of all these funny tables standing aside the US > roads, explaining you the meaning of a yellow line in the middle of > the road that's accompanied by another broken line on one side... Can't speak for the US, but over here, at least, they mean nothing. They're merely "a suggestion". :) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 12:42:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA08487 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:42:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from thelab.hub.org ([207.181.94.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08481 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from thelab.hub.org (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA29778; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:41:06 -0400 (AST) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:41:06 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: chat@freebsd.org cc: rsacrack@vex.net Subject: RSA Challenge no longer running...? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk has anyone heard whether those "new binaries" that were supposed to be out a couple of weeks back are ever going to be released? Last I heard, the guy that is producing them is using them on his machine, but I haven't heard anything since... From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 15:25:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA15837 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:25:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (root@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15830 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from grfpc1 (monty-port14.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.24]) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23176 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 09:25:09 +1000 (EST) Received: by grfpc1 with Microsoft Mail id <01BC31F4.472F6180@grfpc1>; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 10:24:49 +-1000 Message-ID: <01BC31F4.472F6180@grfpc1> From: Andrew Perry To: "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: FW: [RSA] FreeBSD or Linux??? Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 10:19:17 +-1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk looks like the FreeBSD presence on the RSA challenge is getting noticed!!! Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au ---------- From: Mike Theobald[SMTP:mwtheobald@iname.com] Sent: Sunday, 16 March 1997 7:34 To: rsacrack@vex.net Subject: [RSA] FreeBSD or Linux??? Since quite a few of the machines contributing to the Vex effort seem to be Unix boxes I thought I could ask this question here. If it's off topic too much, I apologize. I'm thinking of putting UN*X on my machine (P133 Intel) and was wondering what the pro's and con's were of the two big ones, FreeBSD and Linux. There are a heck of a lot of FreeBSD machines contributing to the vex effort and few Linux ones. Any reasons? Any advice of where to look for a comparison? Thanks, ------------------------------------------ Mike Theobald mwtheobald@iname.com http://www.cgocable.net/~mtheobal Oakville, Ontario, mtheobal@cgocable.net Check out PGP key at web page Canada From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 16:29:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA06647 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.blaze.net.au (server.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06637 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de (papillon.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.74]) by server.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29868; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 11:29:22 +1100 (EST) From: grog@lemis.de Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id KAA06476; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 10:29:06 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199703152329.KAA06476@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: "The competition" In-Reply-To: <199703151825.KAA03556@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Mar 15, 97 10:25:01 am" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 10:29:05 +1100 (EST) Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, chat@FreeBSD.org Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty writes: > > FreeBSD: It Came From The Net Nice one. How about modifying it slightly: The thing that came from the Net... FreeBSD > FreeBSD: Net Native At home on the net? > FreeBSD: Net Highway 101 What does 101 mean? Yes, I know, but it's very US-centered. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 15 16:49:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA08855 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08849 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:48:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.4) id TAA02761; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:47:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:47:55 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199703160047.TAA02761@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: grog@lemis.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "The competition" Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.chat References: <5gffl5$4h9$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.chat you write: >Amancio Hasty writes: >> >> FreeBSD: It Came From The Net >Nice one. How about modifying it slightly: > The thing that came from the Net... > FreeBSD >> FreeBSD: Net Native >At home on the net? >> FreeBSD: Net Highway 101 >What does 101 mean? Yes, I know, but it's very US-centered. FreeBSD: What else? --- Your looking for a high performance operating system, one geared towards your server environment, where high quality, high reliability and security are key. In the vast sea of Operating Systems what do you choose? FreeBSD, there is no other choice. Please visit us at www.freebsd.org for more details! --- -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich