From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 3 10:20:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA03398 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 10:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA03380 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA16678 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:19:58 -0400 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:20:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: FreeBSD-Chat@freebsd.org Subject: web pointer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The following article was found in the Edupage weekly, and I thought you'd all appreciate the web pointer: FIRST HTML DIGITAL LIBRARY IN THE COMPUTER FIELD Seventeen of the IEEE Computer Society's 19 magazines are now being made available online < http://www.computer.org >. As each periodical issue is completed, the tables of contents, article abstracts, and PDF versions of the individual articles are posted on the Web -- ahead of the mailing of the paper edition. Later, the issue's complete contents will be posted in HTML form: full text searchable, with math rendered as GIF images, all graphical images as separately manipulable objects, etc. At the end of this year access will be limited to Society members, but currently access is free to everyone. (Computer Magazine Aug 97) ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 3 12:18:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10324 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10304 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA21033 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:18:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:18:15 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: FreeBSD-Chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: web pointer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > The following article was found in the Edupage weekly, and I thought > you'd all appreciate the web pointer: > > FIRST HTML DIGITAL LIBRARY IN THE COMPUTER FIELD Vaporware, and the ACM beat them to it anyway. Still useful though. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 3 20:58:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10321 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10316 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00470 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708040358.UAA00470@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: FreeBSD-Chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Scary e-mail ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 20:58:11 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I didn't know that my e-mail address was so cheap :( Cheers, Amancio LET US DO YOUR BULK MAILINGS...$200 PER MILLION!!!! THE WAY OF THE FUTURE FOR SUCCESS IN YOUR BUSINESS Our company will do bulk emailing for your product/service. Addresses are extracted daily by four of our computers, which run 24 hours a day 7 days a week, scanning the net for new addresses. They are fresh! Over 37 million addresses on file. Our prices start at $200 per 1 million mailed. No more than 2 pages (50 lines), no porn and no foul language. We do not do targeted mailings at this price. There are no lower prices on the net. Your mailing can be done in a matter of hours. BRS has 6 computers sending and processing messages daily. For the fastest service, cheapest prices and cleanest mailings call our processing and new accounts office at 904-282-0945. Large corporate mailings available - ask for details. To have your name removed, call our processing office. Any negative responses will be dealt with accordingly. ----- From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 3 23:49:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA17879 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 23:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA17872 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 23:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA09791 for FreeBSD-Chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:49:10 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA09589; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:41:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970804084124.LM24582@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:41:24 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: FreeBSD-Chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scary e-mail ... References: <199708040358.UAA00470@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199708040358.UAA00470@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Aug 3, 1997 20:58:11 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Amancio Hasty wrote: > I didn't know that my e-mail address was so cheap :( Well, because it probably has at best a negative marketing effect at all, i suppose. So now, the spammers try to convince their `customers' with the word `million'. At least, it sounds good, and if the sales figures afterwards go up by 5 pieces per annum, they could claim that that's 5 ppm `success rate'. :) (It's perhaps actually that the sales figures would have gone up by 10 per annum, but 5 of these people have been scared away by the spam. So the actual effect is -5 ppm.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 4 11:16:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17175 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (root@ppp-185.halifax-01.ican.net [206.231.248.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17170 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (scrappy@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA21496; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:15:56 -0300 (ADT) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:15:56 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sysadmin levels today? In-Reply-To: <199708010300.MAA02163@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > Yeah. Not to mention that you can put 8 LUNs on each unit, which > makes the correct answer 57 or 121 respectively. Damn, I forgot about that...I've never actually *seen* this done though...what sort of 'max' has anyone seen hanging off of one scsi bus? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 4 17:46:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA09029 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09024 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA24990; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:16:25 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199708050046.KAA24990@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Sysadmin levels today? In-Reply-To: from The Hermit Hacker at "Aug 4, 97 03:15:56 pm" To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:16:25 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The Hermit Hacker stands accused of saying: > On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > > > Yeah. Not to mention that you can put 8 LUNs on each unit, which > > makes the correct answer 57 or 121 respectively. > > Damn, I forgot about that...I've never actually *seen* this done > though...what sort of 'max' has anyone seen hanging off of one scsi bus? Hmm, I've seen a bus entirely populated with MD21's, so 14 disks, and one with four 5-tape units for 20 tape drives. I've also seen a controller that would let you put four SMD disks on a single SCSI ID at separate LUNs (in a Sequent, I think), so you can imagine what 28 1GB SMD disks would look and sound like 8) Still, the basic problem is the bus bandwidth; it's just not up to that sort of load. > Marc G. Fournier -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 4 18:03:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA09793 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09780 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25043; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:33:33 +0930 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA18924; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:33:31 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199708050103.KAA18924@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Re: Sysadmin levels today? In-Reply-To: <199708050046.KAA24990@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Aug 5, 97 10:16:25 am" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:33:31 +0930 (CST) Cc: scrappy@hub.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > The Hermit Hacker stands accused of saying: >> On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Michael Smith wrote: >> >>> Yeah. Not to mention that you can put 8 LUNs on each unit, which >>> makes the correct answer 57 or 121 respectively. >> >> Damn, I forgot about that...I've never actually *seen* this done >> though...what sort of 'max' has anyone seen hanging off of one scsi bus? > > Hmm, I've seen a bus entirely populated with MD21's, so 14 disks, and > one with four 5-tape units for 20 tape drives. I've also seen a > controller that would let you put four SMD disks on a single SCSI ID > at separate LUNs (in a Sequent, I think), so you can imagine what 28 > 1GB SMD disks would look and sound like 8) > > Still, the basic problem is the bus bandwidth; it's just not up to > that sort of load. You're jumping to conclusions here (or keeping some details quiet :-) The required bandwidth depends on the application, not the number of devices on the bus. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 09:56:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA23098 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23090 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04131; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708051656.KAA04131@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New -current machine now online: ampere.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10213.870783814@time.cdrom.com> References: <10213.870783814@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > Why the name "ampere?" Because it's a measure of current, of > course. :-) *GROAN* Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 13:14:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02341 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02330 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) id NAA01887 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:14:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Amancio Hasty Message-Id: <199708052014.NAA01887@rah.star-gate.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: uunet vs. internet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, a group of sysads are cancelling all uunets postings 8) Rumor has it that Uunet will strike back by using legal action. Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 13:26:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA03051 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA03046 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708052023.QAA21044@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:27:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Amancio Hasty cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet In-Reply-To: <199708052014.NAA01887@rah.star-gate.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Apparently, a group of sysads are cancelling all uunets postings 8) > Rumor has it that Uunet will strike back by using legal action. Ah, (Ab)usenet, the last refuge of the bloated ego. Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 14:41:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06639 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pandora.hh.kew.com (ahd@kendra.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.53.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06631 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ahd@localhost) by pandora.hh.kew.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11561; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:41:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Drew Derbyshire Message-Id: <199708052141.RAA11561@pandora.hh.kew.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Amancio Hasty > Apparently, a group of sysads are cancelling all uunets postings 8) > Rumor has it that Uunet will strike back by using legal action. See http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/5732.html for the Wired spin on it. -ahd- -- Drew Derbyshire Internet: ahd@kew.com Kendra Electronic Wonderworks Telephone: 617-279-9812 "I remember being a sophomore; it was the best three years of my life." - "Animal House" From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 14:51:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07045 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07040 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20655; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:04:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199708052104.RAA20655@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Make this a relese coordinator decision (was Re: ports-current/packages-current discontinued) In-Reply-To: from "Eric J. Schwertfeger" at "Aug 5, 97 02:21:40 pm" To: ejs@bfd.com (Eric J. Schwertfeger) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Cc: mal@kairos.algonet.se, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > (*) Or was it _two_ of them? I have some faint memories they had to use > > two to make it work with a multi-process os. > > If I remember right, the 68010 had a limitation that made it difficult to > deal with page faults, so the second 68010's purpose was to take care of > page faults, then let the primary 68010 continue. If I remember correctly the 68000 had the problem that it could only restart instructions and systems such as the old Masscomp had two 68000s, one to continue faulted instructions. The 68010 added info to the stack frame to permit instruction continuation. The problem has to do with instructions such as can be dramatized by: > *page_fault_location = *io_register_with_nasty_side_effect; where you need to be sure io_register isn't de-referenced twice. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 15:51:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10464 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA10445 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA22871; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:50:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:50:55 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199708052250.PAA22871@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet Newsgroups: kithrup.freebsd.chat In-Reply-To: <199708052014.NAA01887.kithrup.freebsd.chat@rah.star-gate.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199708052014.NAA01887.kithrup.freebsd.chat@rah.star-gate.com> you write: >Apparently, a group of sysads are cancelling all uunets postings 8) >Rumor has it that Uunet will strike back by using legal action. And yours truly has been quoted in the local paper. And will probably be quoted in at least another. (Spent the first hour this morning dealing with reporter questions via email.) This is not a "group of sysads" -- rather, this is a group of the spam cancellers. You know, the ones who actually try to make usenet still readable? (The ones who stopped for nine days a few weeks ago and watched as usenet became >50% spam in most newsgroups?) In this case, a UDP (Usenet Death Penalty) was issued for uunet dial-up originated postings. THis is basicly just alterdial.uu.net. A statistic: last thursaday (July 31), for the first time, one site measured more than one million usenet articles passing through it in a single day. Of those one million, approx. 40% were spam, 40% were spam cancels, and 20% were legit. traffic. Of the 400,000 spam articles, approx. 250,000 came from an alterdial.uu.net account. People have been complaining to uunet about this for several months. uunet claims it can do nothing. So, the UDP went into play, Friday at 5PM PDT. The press coverage has, so far, been favourable. Except for one very badly-slanted article in the San Jose Mercury News, I'm sad to say. UUNET can try legal action; it will be amusing, since most of the people actually doing the cancels are not in the US -- and one of them works for the gov't of Korea, with official sanction. UUNET has claimed that they decided yesterday to implment some technology to help deal with the deluge of spam coming from them. So the UDP may be called off as early as this evening. We'll see. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 17:38:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15764 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15758 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02887; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708060038.RAA02887@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:50:55 PDT." <199708052250.PAA22871@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:38:32 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As one that is sitting here totally defenseless against the mindless e-mail spams , all I have to say go for it!! Yes , I have anti-spam filters and I think they are just not enough :( Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Sean Eric Fagan : > In article <199708052014.NAA01887.kithrup.freebsd.chat@rah.star-gate.com> you write: > >Apparently, a group of sysads are cancelling all uunets postings 8) > >Rumor has it that Uunet will strike back by using legal action. > > And yours truly has been quoted in the local paper. And will probably be > quoted in at least another. (Spent the first hour this morning dealing with > reporter questions via email.) > > This is not a "group of sysads" -- rather, this is a group of the spam > cancellers. You know, the ones who actually try to make usenet still > readable? (The ones who stopped for nine days a few weeks ago and watched > as usenet became >50% spam in most newsgroups?) > > In this case, a UDP (Usenet Death Penalty) was issued for uunet dial-up > originated postings. THis is basicly just alterdial.uu.net. > > A statistic: last thursaday (July 31), for the first time, one site > measured more than one million usenet articles passing through it in a > single day. > > Of those one million, approx. 40% were spam, 40% were spam cancels, and 20% > were legit. traffic. > > Of the 400,000 spam articles, approx. 250,000 came from an alterdial.uu.net > account. > > People have been complaining to uunet about this for several months. uunet > claims it can do nothing. So, the UDP went into play, Friday at 5PM PDT. > > The press coverage has, so far, been favourable. Except for one very > badly-slanted article in the San Jose Mercury News, I'm sad to say. > > UUNET can try legal action; it will be amusing, since most of the people > actually doing the cancels are not in the US -- and one of them works for > the gov't of Korea, with official sanction. > > UUNET has claimed that they decided yesterday to implment some technology to > help deal with the deluge of spam coming from them. So the UDP may be > called off as early as this evening. We'll see. > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 18:55:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19713 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19708 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA01821; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:24:17 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199708060154.LAA01821@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Make this a relese coordinator decision (was Re: ports-current/packages-current discontinued) In-Reply-To: <199708051823.UAA15206@kairos.> from Mats Lofkvist at "Aug 5, 97 08:23:44 pm" To: mal@kairos.algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:24:17 +0930 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mats Lofkvist stands accused of saying: [NCR towers] > I can't remember trying cross-compiling though, when we got the 32's > the older ones were replaced. But since the NCR 32 was a 68020 machine > and the XP used a 68010 (*) (if I remember correctly), maybe the same tools > were used only with some flags to generate -010 code together with an > extra set of libraries? That would make it a bit to easy to qualify as > a cross environment imho. > > _ > Mats Lofkvist > mal@algonet.se > > > (*) Or was it _two_ of them? I have some faint memories they had to use > two to make it work with a multi-process os. You're perhaps thinking of using two 68000's to deal with the broken instruction restart. The Sperry-badged '010 Tower I had only had a single CPU. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 20:26:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA24692 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palm.bythehand.net ([208.219.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA24687 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 16090 invoked from network); 6 Aug 1997 03:23:00 -0000 Received: from port4.go-pc.com (HELO bc.bythehand.net) (206.20.105.143) by palm.bythehand.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 1997 03:23:00 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970805232135.006b75c0@bythehand.net> X-Sender: bernard@bythehand.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 23:21:35 -0400 To: Amancio Hasty From: "Bernard J. Courtney, IS Mgr. Internet Creations By The Hand" Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet Cc: Sean Eric Fagan , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199708060038.RAA02887@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would have to agree, I would support UUNET in any action that they take. they are only responding to Internet Users's complaints. It seems that at least one of the backbone providers has seen the light, AGIS has no hope!! Bernard Courtney bc@bythehand.net At 05:38 PM 8/5/97 -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >As one that is sitting here totally defenseless against the mindless >e-mail spams , all I have to say go for it!! > >Yes , I have anti-spam filters and I think they are just not enough :( > > Cheers, > Amancio > >From The Desk Of Sean Eric Fagan : >> In article <199708052014.NAA01887.kithrup.freebsd.chat@rah.star-gate.com> you > write: >> >Apparently, a group of sysads are cancelling all uunets postings 8) >> >Rumor has it that Uunet will strike back by using legal action. >> >> And yours truly has been quoted in the local paper. And will probably be >> quoted in at least another. (Spent the first hour this morning dealing with >> reporter questions via email.) >> >> This is not a "group of sysads" -- rather, this is a group of the spam >> cancellers. You know, the ones who actually try to make usenet still >> readable? (The ones who stopped for nine days a few weeks ago and watched >> as usenet became >50% spam in most newsgroups?) >> >> In this case, a UDP (Usenet Death Penalty) was issued for uunet dial-up >> originated postings. THis is basicly just alterdial.uu.net. >> >> A statistic: last thursaday (July 31), for the first time, one site >> measured more than one million usenet articles passing through it in a >> single day. >> >> Of those one million, approx. 40% were spam, 40% were spam cancels, and 20% >> were legit. traffic. >> >> Of the 400,000 spam articles, approx. 250,000 came from an alterdial.uu.net >> account. >> >> People have been complaining to uunet about this for several months. uunet >> claims it can do nothing. So, the UDP went into play, Friday at 5PM PDT. >> >> The press coverage has, so far, been favourable. Except for one very >> badly-slanted article in the San Jose Mercury News, I'm sad to say. >> >> UUNET can try legal action; it will be amusing, since most of the people >> actually doing the cancels are not in the US -- and one of them works for >> the gov't of Korea, with official sanction. >> >> UUNET has claimed that they decided yesterday to implment some technology to >> help deal with the deluge of spam coming from them. So the UDP may be >> called off as early as this evening. We'll see. >> > > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 22:35:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00725 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00720 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA24247; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:35:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:35:01 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199708060535.WAA24247@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <3.0.2.32.19970805232135.006b75c0.kithrup.freebsd.chat@bythehand.net> Bernard Courtney wrote: >I would have to agree, I would support UUNET in any action that they take. Really? UUNET is threatening lawsuits and criminal charges against the folks doing the UDP. I've got a letter from someone which is trying to imply that the office of the president is pissed and will take direct action -- which would mean the secret service. So you support that? From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 5 23:19:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA02143 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 23:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02137 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 23:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA01480; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 23:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708060619.XAA01480@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Aug 1997 22:35:01 PDT." <199708060535.WAA24247@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 23:19:24 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hang on a second, UUNet is the Internet 8) At least thats what their actions are implying --- "to hell with netiguettes we are Uunet" !! Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Sean Eric Fagan : > In article <3.0.2.32.19970805232135.006b75c0.kithrup.freebsd.chat@bythehand.n et> Bernard Courtney wrote: > >I would have to agree, I would support UUNET in any action that they take. > > Really? > > UUNET is threatening lawsuits and criminal charges against the folks doing > the UDP. > > I've got a letter from someone which is trying to imply that the office of > the president is pissed and will take direct action -- which would mean the > secret service. > > So you support that? > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 6 00:40:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA06415 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 00:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06410 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 00:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id DAA12893; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 03:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id DAA04080; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 03:39:23 -0400 (EDT) To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:50:55 PDT." <199708052250.PAA22871@kithrup.com> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 03:39:23 -0400 Message-ID: <4078.870853163@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Eric Fagan wrote in message ID <199708052250.PAA22871@kithrup.com>: > UUNET can try legal action; it will be amusing, since most of the people > actually doing the cancels are not in the US -- and one of them works for > the gov't of Korea, with official sanction. If they are not enforcing their TOS, it'd be interesting to see if a counter suit was possible (especially if their TOS is a binding document) ... > UUNET has claimed that they decided yesterday to implment some technology to > help deal with the deluge of spam coming from them. So the UDP may be > called off as early as this evening. We'll see. Hah. Given UUNET's past excuses (citing, if memory serves, ``technical reasons'' for the spam not being stopped), I'd be very surprised if they even CARE. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 6 03:49:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA15183 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 03:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (root@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15177 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 03:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i4got.lakewood.com (fh-ppp1.monmouth.com [205.164.221.33]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA16080; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 06:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by i4got.lakewood.com id GAA01717 (8.8.5/IDA-1.6); Wed, 6 Aug 1997 06:49:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Pechter Message-ID: <199708061049.GAA01717@i4got.lakewood.com> Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet In-Reply-To: <199708060619.XAA01480@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Aug 5, 97 11:19:24 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 06:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org Reply-to: pechter@lakewood.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hang on a second, UUNet is the Internet 8) > > At least thats what their actions are implying --- "to hell with > netiguettes we are Uunet" !! > > Cheers, > Amancio > > They really have forgotten their roots and humble start. Boy have they become a real Pain In The Ass since they dropped the UUCP business to small sites and started hanging out with the likes of Microsoft 8-) Bill From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 6 11:18:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10981 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10970; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:17:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199708061817.LAA10970@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet To: pechter@lakewood.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199708061049.GAA01717@i4got.lakewood.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Aug 6, 97 06:49:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Pechter wrote: > > They really have forgotten their roots and humble start. > > Boy have they become a real Pain In The Ass since they dropped the UUCP > business to small sites and started hanging out with the likes of > Microsoft 8-) Microsoft bought some percentage of uunet. now world.com has bought some portion as well. no wonder they have changed. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 6 12:17:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14081 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14075; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA07099; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:17:53 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: pechter@lakewood.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet In-Reply-To: <199708061817.LAA10970@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here, you go, as a former UUNet customer, we still get little tidbits like this one: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:36:21 -0400 (EDT) From: UUNET Network Operations Reply-To: help@UU.NET To: alter-ops@UU.NET Subject: UUNET Toughens Anti Spamming Policy Newsgroups: uunet.status Dear Customer, As a result of the recent increase in spamming activity over the Internet, we have strengthened our anti-spamming policy. Please see the attached press release for details. In addition, as you may know, UUNET has been targeted by a group of newsgroup administrators who have mistakenly accused UUNET of ignoring spamming complaints. This group has taken actions which may impact your ability to use the UUNET news service. The attached release describes our response to these actions. Please note the effect of filtering news postings from sources whose identity cannot be authenticated, as indicated in the press release, will be to block postings from those using UUNET's news servers from a dynamic address pool. There should be no effect on postings by UUNET Internet 9-5 customers or customers of UUNET resellers who post to the reseller's news servers. Single-User Dial-up customers will not be able to post articles to UUNET's news servers. UUNET intends for this measure to be temporary, pending the implementation of user authentication technology. We will keep you advised of further developments. Please do not hesitate to contact customer support with any questions you may have on this matter at 1(800) 900-0241 or at 1(703) 206-5440. Thank You, UUNET FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contacts: UUNET: WorldCom: Media Relations: Investor Relations: Mara Radis Gary Brandt 703-206-5441 601-360-8544 marar@uu.net Public Relations: Josh Howell 601-360-8750 UUNET TOUGHENS ANTI-SPAMMING POLICY Largest ISP Re-Affirms Zero-Tolerance Policy Toward Spammers FAIRFAX, Va., August 5, 1997-UUNET Technologies, Inc., the world's largest Internet Service Provider (ISP) and a subsidiary of WorldCom, Inc., today announced it will take additional measures against the growing tide of mail and newsgroup spammers. The new measures will make it much more difficult for spammers to post messages through UUNET, and are designed to enable UUNET to identify the origin of a specific spam. "Spamming" is the sending of unsolicited material to a wide list of recipients, either through the mail or the news systems of the Internet. UUNET has a zero-tolerance policy toward spamming and understands that it is a widespread problem for Internet users. The spamming problem does not originate with UUNET or its resellers, but with a small number of end users, who are typically customers of those resellers. More than 99 percent of the spamming investigations conducted by UUNET involve a reseller. UUNET actively assists in identifying the spammer, and the reseller then follows its own policies, which typically include warnings to its customers and eventual termination. "We've been working behind the scenes, hand-in-glove with our resellers, to stem the flow of spam and we've stopped a lot of offenders," said John Sidgmore, UUNET's CEO. "However, current technology makes spamming easier, so we've found it necessary to strengthen our anti-spamming measures." UUNET's anti-spamming policy includes: - limiting the length of email recipient lists; - blacklisting mail sent from known spamming locations or organizations; - maintaining a mailbox (abuse@uu.net) which allows victims to report spam incidents; - providing a dedicated customer service and security staff which investigates spamming incidents; and - enforcing a customer service agreement which provides for service termination in the event of spamming. UUNET is now adding the following measures: - implementing new technology which will identify the source of a spam; - filtering news postings from sources whose identity cannot be authenticated; and - discontinuing the relay of third-party mail messages to non-UUNET destinations (a common technique used by spammers to hide their identity). -more- Spamming Release/page two Misinformed Group Disrupts UUNET News Service Late last week, UUNET was singled out by a group of Internet news administrators who mistakenly accused UUNET of ignoring spamming complaints. The group has taken indiscriminate actions which effectively prohibit newsgroup postings that travel over the UUNET infrastructure, regardless of whether the postings qualify as spam. "These actions are clearly the result of a misunderstanding," said Sidgmore. "The group obviously was not aware of the strong anti-spamming steps we have taken on behalf of our own and our reseller's customers. Nonetheless we deplore these actions, which we believe to be illegal." Today UUNET initiated technical measures to counteract the effects of the group's actions. UUNET said it would turn the matter over to the appropriate law enforcement authorities. About UUNET Technologies Headquartered in Fairfax, Va., UUNET Technologies, Inc. is the world's largest Internet service provider, offering a comprehensive range of access options, World Wide Web hosting services, security products and consulting services to businesses, professionals, and on-line service providers. The company's network is comprised of nearly 1,000 Points of Presence (POPs) throughout the United States and in Canada, Europe and the Asia-Pacific region, as well as connections to Internet service providers around the world. Founded in 1987, UUNET is recognized as the first commercial Internet service provider and is a subsidiary of WorldCom, Inc. UUNET's World Wide Web address is http://www.uu.net. About WorldCom WorldCom is a global business telecommunications company. Operating in more than 50 countries, the company is a premier provider of facilities-based and fully integrated local, long distance, international and Internet services. WorldCom's World Wide Web address is http://www.wcom.com. The common and depositary shares of WorldCom trade on the Nasdaq National Market (U.S.) under the symbol WCOM and WCOMP, respectively. On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > They really have forgotten their roots and humble start. > > > > Boy have they become a real Pain In The Ass since they dropped the UUCP > > business to small sites and started hanging out with the likes of > > Microsoft 8-) > > Microsoft bought some percentage of uunet. > now world.com has bought some portion as well. > no wonder they have changed. > jmb > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 6 13:57:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA19396 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA19390 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA26494; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:57:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:57:49 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199708062057.NAA26494@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet References: <199708061817.LAA10970@hub.freebsd.org> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article you write: >Please note the effect of filtering news postings from sources whose >identity cannot be authenticated, as indicated in the press release, will be >to block postings from those using UUNET's news servers from a dynamic >address pool. There should be no effect on postings by UUNET Internet 9-5 >customers or customers of UUNET resellers who post to the reseller's news >servers. Single-User Dial-up customers will not be able to post articles to >UUNET's news servers. This last sentence is the kicker -- those are the only postings that were being cancelled (are being cancelled, I suppose I should say). So, what uunet did to clean things up was to simply cut them off. Without warning. Fine by me -- uunet spam stats are down from hundreds of thosuands a day to less than a thousand a day. But they're doing just what the UDP was forced to do. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 6 15:49:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25457 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA25449; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07177; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708062247.PAA07177@rah.star-gate.com> To: spork cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , pechter@lakewood.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Aug 1997 19:17:53 EDT." Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:47:41 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It looks like the uunet is rapidly becoming Internet Public Enemy # 1 8) You see bull???? announcements like this one don't cut it anymore because information is easily accessible. If anything they are showing that there is really a communication problem on their part so why not admit to it and be done with ?? Cheers, Amancio P.S.: On my dealings with UUNET they have been excellent Net citizens however this was in the context of the mbone and generally the mbone community is very well behave. >From The Desk Of spork : > Here, you go, as a former UUNet customer, we still get little tidbits like > this one: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:36:21 -0400 (EDT) > From: UUNET Network Operations > Reply-To: help@UU.NET > To: alter-ops@UU.NET > Subject: UUNET Toughens Anti Spamming Policy > Newsgroups: uunet.status > > Dear Customer, > > As a result of the recent increase in spamming activity over the Internet, > we have strengthened our anti-spamming policy. Please see the attached press > release for details. > > In addition, as you may know, UUNET has been targeted by a group of > newsgroup administrators who have mistakenly accused UUNET of ignoring > spamming complaints. This group has taken actions which may impact your > ability to use the UUNET news service. The attached release describes our > response to these actions. > > Please note the effect of filtering news postings from sources whose > identity cannot be authenticated, as indicated in the press release, will be > to block postings from those using UUNET's news servers from a dynamic > address pool. There should be no effect on postings by UUNET Internet 9-5 > customers or customers of UUNET resellers who post to the reseller's news > servers. Single-User Dial-up customers will not be able to post articles to > UUNET's news servers. > > UUNET intends for this measure to be temporary, pending the implementation > of user authentication technology. We will keep you advised of further > developments. > > Please do not hesitate to contact customer support with any questions you > may have on this matter at 1(800) 900-0241 or at 1(703) 206-5440. > > Thank You, > > UUNET > > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > Contacts: UUNET: WorldCom: > Media Relations: Investor Relations: > Mara Radis Gary Brandt > 703-206-5441 601-360-8544 > marar@uu.net Public Relations: > Josh Howell > 601-360-8750 > > UUNET TOUGHENS ANTI-SPAMMING POLICY > > Largest ISP Re-Affirms Zero-Tolerance Policy Toward Spammers > > FAIRFAX, Va., August 5, 1997-UUNET Technologies, Inc., the world's largest > Internet Service Provider (ISP) and a subsidiary of WorldCom, Inc., today > announced it will take additional measures against the growing tide of mail > and newsgroup spammers. The new measures will make it much more difficult > for spammers to post messages through UUNET, and are designed to enable > UUNET to identify the origin of a specific spam. "Spamming" is the sending > of unsolicited material to a wide list of recipients, either through the > mail or the news systems of the Internet. > > UUNET has a zero-tolerance policy toward spamming and understands that it > is a widespread problem for Internet users. The spamming problem does not > originate with UUNET or its resellers, but with a small number of end users, > who are typically customers of those resellers. More than 99 percent of the > spamming investigations conducted by UUNET involve a reseller. UUNET > actively assists in identifying the spammer, and the reseller then follows > its own policies, which typically include warnings to its customers and > eventual termination. > > "We've been working behind the scenes, hand-in-glove with our resellers, to > stem the flow of spam and we've stopped a lot of offenders," said John > Sidgmore, UUNET's CEO. "However, current technology makes spamming easier, > so we've found it necessary to strengthen our anti-spamming measures." > > UUNET's anti-spamming policy includes: > - limiting the length of email recipient lists; > - blacklisting mail sent from known spamming locations or organizations; > - maintaining a mailbox (abuse@uu.net) which allows victims to report spam > incidents; > - providing a dedicated customer service and security staff which > investigates spamming incidents; and > - enforcing a customer service agreement which provides for service > termination in the event of spamming. > > UUNET is now adding the following measures: > - implementing new technology which will identify the source of a spam; > - filtering news postings from sources whose identity cannot be > authenticated; and > - discontinuing the relay of third-party mail messages to non-UUNET > destinations (a common technique used by spammers to hide their identity). > > > > -more- > > Spamming Release/page two > > > Misinformed Group Disrupts UUNET News Service > Late last week, UUNET was singled out by a group of Internet news > administrators who mistakenly accused UUNET of ignoring spamming complaints. > The group has taken indiscriminate actions which effectively prohibit > newsgroup postings that travel over the UUNET infrastructure, regardless of > whether the postings qualify as spam. > > "These actions are clearly the result of a misunderstanding," said Sidgmore. > "The group obviously was not aware of the strong anti-spamming steps we have > taken on behalf of our own and our reseller's customers. Nonetheless we > deplore these actions, which we believe to be illegal." Today UUNET > initiated technical measures to counteract the effects of the group's > actions. UUNET said it would turn the matter over to the appropriate law > enforcement authorities. > > About UUNET Technologies > Headquartered in Fairfax, Va., UUNET Technologies, Inc. is the world's > largest Internet service provider, offering a comprehensive range of access > options, World Wide Web hosting services, security products and consulting > services to businesses, professionals, and on-line service providers. The > company's network is comprised of nearly 1,000 Points of Presence (POPs) > throughout the United States and in Canada, Europe and the Asia-Pacific > region, as well as connections to Internet service providers around the > world. Founded in 1987, UUNET is recognized as the first commercial Internet > service provider and is a subsidiary of WorldCom, Inc. UUNET's World Wide > Web address is http://www.uu.net. > > About WorldCom > WorldCom is a global business telecommunications company. Operating in more > than 50 countries, the company is a premier provider of facilities-based and > fully integrated local, long distance, international and Internet services. > WorldCom's World Wide Web address is http://www.wcom.com. The common and > depositary shares of WorldCom trade on the Nasdaq National Market (U.S.) > under the symbol WCOM and WCOMP, respectively. > > > > > On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > > > They really have forgotten their roots and humble start. > > > > > > Boy have they become a real Pain In The Ass since they dropped the UUCP > > > business to small sites and started hanging out with the likes of > > > Microsoft 8-) > > > > Microsoft bought some percentage of uunet. > > now world.com has bought some portion as well. > > no wonder they have changed. > > jmb > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 6 16:41:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA28448 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28442 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18662; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:40:04 -0700 (PDT) To: Wilko Bulte cc: peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl (Peter Korsten), chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Aug 1997 23:48:53 +0200." <199708062148.XAA03118@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 16:40:04 -0700 Message-ID: <18658.870910804@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Why would I want my mouse to transmit with 200 Mbit/s to my PC? > > WOW! That would be the RSI of the century I suppose. Lawyers beware ;-) Actually, maybe he has a mouse which delivers position updates in microns - ever think of THAT? Huh? Huh?! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 6 17:23:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00287 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00253; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id KAA09276; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:24:02 +1000 From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA01467; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:53:00 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199708070023.JAA01467@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Re: Hot Swappable Kernels In-Reply-To: <199708070004.TAA00279@argus.tfs.net> from Jim Bryant at "Aug 6, 97 07:04:16 pm" To: jbryant@tfs.net Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:53:00 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Chat) Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Bryant writes: > In reply: >> Jamil J. Weatherbee writes: >>> >>> I know this may sound kind of lame: >>> >>> I was thinking last night of what would be required to have a hot >>> swappable kernel.. i.e. being able to compile the kernel binary (probably) >>> modules and then insert it into a running system while maintaining its >>> running status --- to my knowledge kernel recompiles are the only reason a >>> perfectly rebooting system needs to come down every once in a while. >> >> I suspect people are going to shoot you down in flames, and they're >> probably justified. But I suppose you'd like to know that I've done >> just that in the past, at Tandem. The operating system is a loosely >> coupled network, so we were able to boot one machine at a time. >> Despite the obvious interest of such a scheme for Tandem, and despite >> my extensive lobbying, it never came to anything. >> >> I can't imagine how you would start to do such a thing with UNIX. The >> closest you could come to it would be to split most of the kernel into >> LKMs, and change them. But there's a basic conflict of concept >> between keeping a kernel running (even if it's no longer the same >> kernel) and booting a kernel. > > greg, > > Keep in mind that even for Guardian-90, you still have to boot... Sure, but with my method, you booted one CPU at a time. So the system really didn't go down. > Let's see, what changes if i simply change MAXUSERS... > > This is one of the simpler scenarios... Changing other things can be > really hairy... Sure, I'm not arguing that it should be possible to change a number of parameters without rebooting. On the contrary, it's a good idea. But it's a long way from there to swapping kernels on the fly. > Unix on a PC is not Guardian-90 on a Non-Stop. An occassional reboot > is not a bad thing. An occasionaly reboot is a necessary evil. That's just another way of saying that it's a Bad Thing. > Prediction: Three years, tops. Compaq will run Tandem into the > ground. A shame too... Hmm. I've spoken to people at Tandem, and the opinion is mixed. Remember Tandem's been running itself into the ground for a while. BTW (and thus the follow-up to -chat?): what are they going to call the new company? Tampaq or Condem have been suggested. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 10:04:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA17516 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17500 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA18592; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:58:19 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:58:18 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Wilko Bulte , Peter Korsten , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-Reply-To: <18658.870910804@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Why would I want my mouse to transmit with 200 Mbit/s to my PC? > > > > WOW! That would be the RSI of the century I suppose. Lawyers beware ;-) > > Actually, maybe he has a mouse which delivers position updates in > microns - ever think of THAT? Huh? Huh?! :-) > The business idea of the century - let's make all mouses transmit data at the rate the present processors can not keep up so everybody upgrades... :-) Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 10:37:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA18978 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18973 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wwong@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.8.5/8.6.11) id KAA13907; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:35:45 -0700 (PDT) From: William Wong Message-Id: <199708071735.KAA13907@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at Aug 7, 97 07:58:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > Why would I want my mouse to transmit with 200 Mbit/s to my PC? > > > > > > WOW! That would be the RSI of the century I suppose. Lawyers beware ;-) > > > > Actually, maybe he has a mouse which delivers position updates in > > microns - ever think of THAT? Huh? Huh?! :-) > > > > The business idea of the century - let's make all mouses transmit data at > the rate the present processors can not keep up so everybody upgrades... > :-) > > Sander > > There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - > all these are just illusions. > > > Jordan > > > > > Do we remember when Bill Gates stated just a few years back that no one could possibly utilize all 640k of memory on the original IBM PC? Unfortunately, history does repeat itself even to those who do remember the past. :( -- William T. Wong Cal State University, San Bernardino Phone: (909) 880-7281 email: wwong@wiley.csusb.edu From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 16:53:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA07975 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA07970 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id JAA07756; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:52:30 +1000 From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA15985; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:22:29 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199708072352.JAA15985@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-Reply-To: <199708071735.KAA13907@wiley.csusb.edu> from William Wong at "Aug 7, 97 10:35:45 am" To: wwong@wiley.csusb.edu (William Wong) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:22:29 +0930 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk William Wong writes: >> >> >> On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >>>>> Why would I want my mouse to transmit with 200 Mbit/s to my PC? >>>> >>>> WOW! That would be the RSI of the century I suppose. Lawyers beware ;-) >>> >>> Actually, maybe he has a mouse which delivers position updates in >>> microns - ever think of THAT? Huh? Huh?! :-) >>> >> >> The business idea of the century - let's make all mouses transmit data at >> the rate the present processors can not keep up so everybody upgrades... >>> -) >> >> Sander >> >> There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - >> all these are just illusions. >> >>> Jordan >>> >> >> >> > > Do we remember when Bill Gates stated just a few years back that no one > could possibly utilize all 640k of memory on the original IBM PC? > Unfortunately, history does repeat itself even to those who do remember > the past. :( If you think back a little harder, you'll recall that Bill Gates wasn't the bogey man back then. It was IBM. And they were the people who introduced the 640 kB limit. I was using 86-DOS before the introduction of the PC, and it had a 1 MB limit. Isn't it comforting to see that even Big Blue wasn't able to continue ruling the world? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 17:05:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA08640 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08628 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA11080; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA12932; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:06:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:06:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: UUnet, spam, and the "wild west"! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Congratulations! You've made "vigilante" status in the local paper! While the article was probably slanted a little towards UUnet (probably because its easier to interview UUnet spokesmen than cyber-people), it was telling that on the opposite page was an article explaining that the reason you got an email advertising porn was possibly because you posted on Usenet. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 18:37:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA13701 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13696 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA21091; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA27167; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:38:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:38:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: Greg Lehey cc: William Wong , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-Reply-To: <199708072352.JAA15985@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > Isn't it comforting to see that even Big Blue wasn't able to continue > ruling the world? Maybe. If Microsoft was what followed IBM, then I shudder to think of what will follow Microsoft. Anyways... Even the popular press seems to be going after MS, now... On the Apple-MS announcement, today's paper went on to list previous companies that were squished after making dealing with MS. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 18:40:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA13817 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA13774 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA10969; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:39:24 +1000 From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA19618; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:09:23 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199708080139.LAA19618@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-Reply-To: from Tim Vanderhoek at "Aug 7, 97 09:38:05 pm" To: hoek@hwcn.org Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:09:23 +0930 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tim Vanderhoek writes: > On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Isn't it comforting to see that even Big Blue wasn't able to continue >> ruling the world? > > Maybe. If Microsoft was what followed IBM, then I shudder to > think of what will follow Microsoft. Hmmm. I don't know. IBM was pretty hated in their day. But I understand your concern :-) > Anyways... Even the popular press seems to be going after MS, > now... On the Apple-MS announcement, today's paper went on to > list previous companies that were squished after making dealing > with MS. See? The worm is turning. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 18:50:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA14519 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA14506 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA22830; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA29177; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:51:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:51:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: hoek@hwcn.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UUnet, spam, and the "wild west"! In-Reply-To: <199708080125.SAA21383@kithrup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article you write: > > > >Congratulations! You've made "vigilante" status in the local > >paper! > > Do you mean I, personally, was quoted? Which paper was this? (Unless > you're in the san francisco bay area, that is...) No, this was "you", plural. Sorry... :) It did quote Dennis McClain-Furmanski (spokesperson for group?), though. And someone from the EFF. And John Sidgemore (UUnet chief). And it mentioned that the Internet community is "rattled" about the protest. :) [This was from Knight-Ridder Newspapers, in the Hamilton Spectator (reasonably large paper). The article is ~1400 words.] -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 20:40:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA18599 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [207.170.114.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18594 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA14789; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:40:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19970807224013.12227@pmr.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:40:13 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Greg Lehey Cc: hoek@hwcn.org, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <199708080139.LAA19618@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <199708080139.LAA19618@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Fri, Aug 08, 1997 at 11:09:23AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Aug 08, 1997 at 11:09:23AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > Tim Vanderhoek writes: > > On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >> Isn't it comforting to see that even Big Blue wasn't able to continue > >> ruling the world? > > > > Maybe. If Microsoft was what followed IBM, then I shudder to > > think of what will follow Microsoft. > > Hmmm. I don't know. IBM was pretty hated in their day. But I > understand your concern :-) What, exactly, did IBM do during those days that made it so hated? You see, I am a retired IBMer (veteran of 30 years) and probably have a _very_ different perspective wrt IBM (I still believe that it is a good company, if sometimes misguided and suffering from its shear size). OTOH, I find Microsoft most apauling. While with IBM I often heard horror stories about how impossible it was to deal with Microsoft. Everything had to be their way or not at all. There was no possibility of compromise. Of course this is really just hearsay, since I never worked in an area that had to deal directly with Microsoft (thank God). > > > Anyways... Even the popular press seems to be going after MS, > > now... On the Apple-MS announcement, today's paper went on to > > list previous companies that were squished after making dealing > > with MS. > > See? The worm is turning. > > Greg -- Bob Willcox Deliberation, n.: The act of examining one's bread bob@luke.pmr.com to determine which side it is buttered on. Austin, TX -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 20:51:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA18998 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA18993 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA13944; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:51:07 +1000 From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA00720; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:21:06 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199708080351.NAA00720@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-Reply-To: <19970807224013.12227@pmr.com> from Bob Willcox at "Aug 7, 97 10:40:13 pm" To: bob@luke.pmr.com Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:21:06 +0930 (CST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, hoek@hwcn.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bob Willcox writes: > On Fri, Aug 08, 1997 at 11:09:23AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> Tim Vanderhoek writes: >>> On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> >>>> Isn't it comforting to see that even Big Blue wasn't able to continue >>>> ruling the world? >>> >>> Maybe. If Microsoft was what followed IBM, then I shudder to >>> think of what will follow Microsoft. >> >> Hmmm. I don't know. IBM was pretty hated in their day. But I >> understand your concern :-) > > What, exactly, did IBM do during those days that made it so hated? Good question. > You see, I am a retired IBMer (veteran of 30 years) Sure, I know that. > and probably have a _very_ different perspective wrt IBM (I still > believe that it is a good company, if sometimes misguided and > suffering from its shear size). I think you do, judging by our conversations. > OTOH, I find Microsoft most apauling. While with IBM I often heard > horror stories about how impossible it was to deal with Microsoft. > Everything had to be their way or not at all. There was no possibility > of compromise. Of course this is really just hearsay, since I never > worked in an area that had to deal directly with Microsoft (thank God). This is probably correct. I'm not sure, though, that it's so relevant. It will be interesting to look back to the 90's in about 20 years time and analyse it then, but in the meantime, here's my take: 1. Nobody like a monopolist. IBM had a virtual monopoly on the mainframe market in the 70s. Microsoft has a virtual monopoly on the PC software market now. That in itself is enough to make the companies unpopular. 2. A monopoly doesn't have to worry about quality, service, etc. as much as a small, struggling competitor. I think this showed through with IBM's attitude, and it definitely does with Microslop. 3. On the other hand, there are differences. I think you make a valid point that IBM was thoroughly professional in their approach, whereas I can't really say that for Microsoft. But I think we can overestimate the meaning of this difference. The industry has changed beyond recognition--the fact that IBM is no longer number 1 is a good indication. I think that the market in general has become less professional, perhaps thanks in part to Billy Boy, but certainly also due to the competition from Asia. 4. This whole thing is probably cyclical. In the 1960s, IBM recognized what the emerging computer market needed, and they supplied it in a way which helped them to increase their lead from their competitors. Microsoft did the same in the 80s. Ultimately, I suspect, a sense of complacency and a lack of interest in solving customer problems, combined with changes in technology, caused IBM to come down from its pedestal. I'm sure that the same will happen to Microsoft. Why is NT such a pig? It's supposed to be a completely new start, but they've got so locked into their corporate way of thinking that they can't really start afresh. Hmm. I'm rambling. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 23:18:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA26059 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26053 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA17518; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:03:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: Greg Lehey cc: bob@luke.pmr.com, hoek@hwcn.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-Reply-To: <199708080351.NAA00720@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > Bob Willcox writes: > > On Fri, Aug 08, 1997 at 11:09:23AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Tim Vanderhoek writes: > >>> On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> > >>>> Isn't it comforting to see that even Big Blue wasn't able to continue > >>>> ruling the world? > >>> > >>> Maybe. If Microsoft was what followed IBM, then I shudder to > >>> think of what will follow Microsoft. [....] > 4. This whole thing is probably cyclical. In the 1960s, IBM > recognized what the emerging computer market needed, and they > supplied it in a way which helped them to increase their lead from > their competitors. Microsoft did the same in the 80s. > Ultimately, I suspect, a sense of complacency and a lack of > interest in solving customer problems, combined with changes in > technology, caused IBM to come down from its pedestal. I'm sure > that the same will happen to Microsoft. Why is NT such a pig? > It's supposed to be a completely new start, but they've got so > locked into their corporate way of thinking that they can't really > start afresh. Meanwhile, what is Bill Gates going to do with Apple, assuming that Apple probably needs continuing infusions of funds and Microsoft therefore has some influence? --He got some anti-trust protection by keeping them alive (by agreeing to produce Mac versions of Excel etc. for 5 years) --He settled law suits, for an undisclosed sum --He got access to at least some software.... But as a long term strategy.... --Rewrite the graphics etc. apps where Apple is the leader for Windows (NT, whatever); let Apple struggle, die, get absorbed --Rewrite the whole operating system to run on Intel & compatible hardware, sell both operating systems, both sets of software (or the Mac OS as an "add-on" to Windows; automatic installation of both by clicking an icon, of course) Idle spectulation. Annelise From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 7 23:38:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA27003 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26996 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00757; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708080638.XAA00757@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Annelise Anderson cc: Greg Lehey , bob@luke.pmr.com, hoek@hwcn.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:03:28 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 23:38:27 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Annelise Anderson : I think Bill just got antitrust insurance for $140 million and it is to his benefit to keep Apple alive or to at least show that he tried to save them!! You ever seen a grown man rolling on the floor laughing? Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 01:22:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA01795 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA01790 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wwong@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.8.5/8.6.11) id BAA09165; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:22:30 -0700 (PDT) From: William Wong Message-Id: <199708080822.BAA09165@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199708072352.JAA15985@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Aug 8, 97 09:22:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > William Wong writes: > >> > >> > >> On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> > >>>>> Why would I want my mouse to transmit with 200 Mbit/s to my PC? > >>>> > >>>> WOW! That would be the RSI of the century I suppose. Lawyers beware ;-) > >>> > >>> Actually, maybe he has a mouse which delivers position updates in > >>> microns - ever think of THAT? Huh? Huh?! :-) > >>> > >> > >> The business idea of the century - let's make all mouses transmit data at > >> the rate the present processors can not keep up so everybody upgrades... > >>> -) > >> > >> Sander > >> > >> There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - > >> all these are just illusions. > >> > >>> Jordan > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > Do we remember when Bill Gates stated just a few years back that no one > > could possibly utilize all 640k of memory on the original IBM PC? > > Unfortunately, history does repeat itself even to those who do remember > > the past. :( > > If you think back a little harder, you'll recall that Bill Gates > wasn't the bogey man back then. It was IBM. And they were the people > who introduced the 640 kB limit. I was using 86-DOS before the > introduction of the PC, and it had a 1 MB limit. > > Isn't it comforting to see that even Big Blue wasn't able to continue > ruling the world? > > Greg > > > Yeah, but MS is the one that popularized the IBM PC. Besides, it's more fun picking on Bill. :) Nothing good seems to come out of MS. MS just goes around absorbing technology from smaller companies. I actually have more respect for IBM; Their R&D isn't all that bad... -- William T. Wong Cal State University, San Bernardino Phone: (909) 880-7281 email: wwong@wiley.csusb.edu From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 01:48:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA03069 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA03064 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id SAA19386; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:47:52 +1000 From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA01410; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:17:46 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199708080847.SAA01410@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-Reply-To: <199708080822.BAA09165@wiley.csusb.edu> from William Wong at "Aug 8, 97 01:22:30 am" To: wwong@wiley.csusb.edu (William Wong) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:17:45 +0930 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk William Wong writes: >> >> William Wong writes: >>> >>> Do we remember when Bill Gates stated just a few years back that no one >>> could possibly utilize all 640k of memory on the original IBM PC? >>> Unfortunately, history does repeat itself even to those who do remember >>> the past. :( >> >> If you think back a little harder, you'll recall that Bill Gates >> wasn't the bogey man back then. It was IBM. And they were the people >> who introduced the 640 kB limit. I was using 86-DOS before the >> introduction of the PC, and it had a 1 MB limit. >> >> Isn't it comforting to see that even Big Blue wasn't able to continue >> ruling the world? > > Yeah, but MS is the one that popularized the IBM PC. Besides, it's > more fun picking on Bill. :) Nothing good seems to come out of MS. > MS just goes around absorbing technology from smaller companies. Well, quite honestly, if there were no likes of Bill around to pick on, I'd be a whole lot happier. But the comfort to which I refer is the fact that monoplies tend to trip over their own complacency. When the computer market becomes more sophisticated again, Microsoft will either adapt or lose market share. I suspect the latter. > I actually have more respect for IBM; Their R&D isn't all that > bad... Right. And we thought *they* were the enemy :-) Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 08:38:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA24638 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usc.usc.unal.edu.co ([200.21.26.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24466 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem07.usc.unal.edu.co by usc.usc.unal.edu.co (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17412; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:28:55 -0400 Message-Id: <33EB5782.7E2D@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:29:38 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: benchmarking FreeBSD Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2D746EF7427F" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Questo è un messaggio multi-parte scritto in formato MIME. --------------2D746EF7427F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy, We went yesterday to Compaq Computer to benchmark FreeBSD. We didn't optimize the kernel as our interest was only seeing if it work well on Compaq boxes or not. We had to remove the ultra-wide SCSI (RAID) card nad we couldn't get the PCI network card configured (matter of time, perhaps). The bytebench was interesting, as a lower end Prosignia gave about half the performance of a middle class Proliant, except for one test where the Prosignia won. The /var filesystem filled and therefore one of the tests failed. I plan to make the results available on either the Newsletter or a web page, but I'm attaching the result of lmbench for a Prosignia 2500, in case someone is interested. While the test was running we were running some fancy stuff: XFree86 with fvwm2, xplanet, xlock, and xsnow. (We had to give the right impression to Compaq :-) ). cheers, Pedro. --------------2D746EF7427F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="LMBENCH.PRO" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="LMBENCH.PRO" cd Results && make summary percent | more L M B E N C H 1 . 0 S U M M A R Y ------------------------------------ Processor, Processes - times in microseconds -------------------------------------------- Host OS Mhz Null Null Simple /bin/sh Mmap 2-proc 8-proc Syscall Process Process Process lat ctxsw ctxsw --------- ------------- ---- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------ ------ rs6000 AIX 2 62 23 2.0K 7.3K 23K 3817 20 32 myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 180 5 1.0K 6.1K 10K 57 5 5 mako HP-UX A.09.01 65 22 2.7K 5.6K 17K 155 25 29 seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 99 14 3.6K 10.1K 18K 116 47 55 snake HP-UX A.09.01 66 21 2.6K 5.7K 17K 156 40 38 IP22 IRIX 5.3 198 11 3.1K 8.0K 19K 260 66 94 pentium Linux 1.1.54 91 3 3.3K 15.4K 49K 33 25 42 alpha OSF1 V2.1 182 13 4.8K 16.1K 43K 172 54 85 ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 50 9 10.7K 57.5K 113K 130 37 52 ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 61 7 8.0K 45.8K 87K 104 0 0 *Local* Communication latencies in microseconds ----------------------------------------------- Host OS Pipe UDP RPC/ TCP RPC/ UDP TCP --------- ------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- rs6000 AIX 2 143 385 820 498 1054 myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 25 103 195 129 254 mako HP-UX A.09.01 288 412 1302 374 1156 seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 193 244 832 262 812 snake HP-UX A.09.01 296 403 1195 367 1142 IP22 IRIX 5.3 131 313 671 278 641 pentium Linux 1.1.54 157 658 1030 1164 1591 alpha OSF1 V2.1 185 404 718 428 851 ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 194 590 935 560 1196 ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 150 414 622 335 784 *Local* Communication bandwidths in megabytes/second ---------------------------------------------------- Host OS Pipe TCP File Mmap Bcopy Bcopy Mem Mem reread reread (libc) (hand) read write --------- ------------- ---- ---- ------ ------ ------ ------ ---- ----- rs6000 AIX 2 34 6.0 76.1 63.0 81 120 99 169 myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 155 36.7 8.5 76.9 1 1 198 74 mako HP-UX A.09.01 27 18.7 34.4 22.5 22 24 45 39 seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 38 35.2 44.7 32.1 25 31 49 52 snake HP-UX A.09.01 19 17.8 34.4 22.3 22 24 45 39 IP22 IRIX 5.3 34 22.1 32.3 43.7 32 31 69 66 pentium Linux 1.1.54 13 2.4 9.8 4.7 18 18 48 32 alpha OSF1 V2.1 32 12.1 39.4 22.7 39 41 76 78 ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 11 11.0 22.9 30.0 26 31 80 62 ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 24 19.5 31.0 30.7 23 24 59 40 Memory latencies in nanoseconds (WARNING - may not be correct, check graphs) -------------------------------------------- Host OS Mhz L1 $ L2 $ Main mem TLB Guesses --------- ------------- --- ---- ---- -------- --- ------- rs6000 AIX 2 61 15 229 247 776 No L2 cache? myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 179 8 28 270 314 mako HP-UX A.09.01 65 - - - - Bad mhz? seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 98 10 10 393 481 No L1 cache? snake HP-UX A.09.01 65 15 15 378 1051 No L1 cache? IP22 IRIX 5.3 197 10 76 1018 1129 pentium Linux 1.1.54 90 11 294 439 1254 alpha OSF1 V2.1 182 10 56 321 452 ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 49 20 284 291 575 No L2 cache? ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 60 16 115 816 961 L M B E N C H 1 . 0 S U M M A R Y ------------------------------------ Comparison to best of the breed ------------------------------- (Best numbers are starred, i.e., *123) Processor, Processes - factor slower than the best -------------------------------------------------- Host OS Mhz Null Null Simple /bin/sh Mmap 2-proc 8-proc Syscall Process Process Process lat ctxsw ctxsw --------- ------------- ---- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------ ------ rs6000 AIX 2 62 7.7 1.9 1.3 2.3 116 4.0 6.4 myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 180 1.7 *1.0K 1.1 *9.9K 1.7 *5 *5 mako HP-UX A.09.01 65 7.3 2.6 *5.5K 1.7 4.7 5.0 5.8 seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 99 4.7 3.4 1.8 1.8 3.5 9.4 11 snake HP-UX A.09.01 66 7.0 2.5 1.0 1.7 4.7 8.0 7.6 IP22 IRIX 5.3 198 3.7 3.0 1.4 1.8 7.9 13 19 pentium Linux 1.1.54 91 *3 3.1 2.7 4.9 *33 5.0 8.4 alpha OSF1 V2.1 182 4.3 4.6 2.9 4.3 5.2 11 17 ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 50 3.0 10 10 11 3.9 7.4 10 ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 61 2.3 7.6 8.2 8.6 3.2 ??? ??? *Local* Communication latencies - factor slower than the best ------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS Pipe UDP RPC/ TCP RPC/ UDP TCP --------- ------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- rs6000 AIX 2 5.7 3.7 4.2 3.9 4.1 myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 *25 *103 *195 *129 *254 mako HP-UX A.09.01 12 4.0 6.7 2.9 4.6 seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 7.7 2.4 4.3 2.0 3.2 snake HP-UX A.09.01 12 3.9 6.1 2.8 4.5 IP22 IRIX 5.3 5.2 3.0 3.4 2.2 2.5 pentium Linux 1.1.54 6.3 6.4 5.3 9.0 6.3 alpha OSF1 V2.1 7.4 3.9 3.7 3.3 3.4 ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 7.8 5.7 4.8 4.3 4.7 ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 6.0 4.0 3.2 2.6 3.1 *Local* Communication bandwidths - percentage of the best --------------------------------------------------------- Host OS Pipe TCP File Mmap Bcopy Bcopy Mem Mem reread reread (libc) (hand) read write --------- ------------- ---- ---- ------ ------ ------ ------ ---- ----- rs6000 AIX 2 22% 16% *76 81% *80 *119 50% *168 myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 *155 *36 11% *76 0% 0% *197 43% mako HP-UX A.09.01 17% 50% 45% 29% 27% 19% 22% 23% seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 24% 96% 58% 41% 31% 25% 24% 30% snake HP-UX A.09.01 12% 48% 45% 28% 27% 19% 22% 23% IP22 IRIX 5.3 21% 60% 42% 56% 39% 25% 34% 38% pentium Linux 1.1.54 8% 6% 12% 6% 22% 14% 24% 19% alpha OSF1 V2.1 20% 32% 51% 29% 48% 33% 38% 46% ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 7% 30% 30% 38% 31% 25% 40% 36% ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 15% 53% 40% 39% 28% 19% 29% 23% Memory latencies in nanoseconds - factor slower than the best (WARNING - may not be correct, check graphs) ------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS Mhz L1 $ L2 $ Main mem TLB Guesses --------- ------------- --- ---- ---- -------- --- ------- rs6000 AIX 2 61 1.9 ??? *247 2.5 No L2 cache? myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 179 *8 2.8 1.1 *314 mako HP-UX A.09.01 65 - - - - Bad mhz? seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 98 ??? *10 1.6 1.5 No L1 cache? snake HP-UX A.09.01 65 ??? 1.5 1.5 3.3 No L1 cache? IP22 IRIX 5.3 197 1.2 7.6 4.1 3.6 pentium Linux 1.1.54 90 1.4 29 1.8 4.0 alpha OSF1 V2.1 182 1.2 5.6 1.3 1.4 ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 49 2.5 ??? 1.2 1.8 No L2 cache? ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 60 2.0 12 3.3 3.1 --------------2D746EF7427F-- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 08:38:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA24651 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usc.usc.unal.edu.co ([200.21.26.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24620 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem07.usc.unal.edu.co by usc.usc.unal.edu.co (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA16146; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:32:44 -0400 Message-Id: <33EB5868.55BE@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:33:28 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: benchmarking FreeBSD References: <33EB5782.7E2D@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Pedro Giffuni S, wrote: > page, > but I'm attaching the result of lmbench for a Prosignia 2500, in case > someone is interested. While the test was running we were running some Sorry, it was a PROLIANT 2500 (They said it had a 200MHz PPro, but the benchmark shows otherwise), with 32M RAM and 2.1G SCSI hard disk. Pedro. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 09:52:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28418 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28407; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:52:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199708081652.JAA28407@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu (Annelise Anderson) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, bob@luke.pmr.com, hoek@hwcn.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Annelise Anderson" at Aug 7, 97 10:03:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk even if this was personal money and not corporate, $150 million is chump-change for bill gates. trash money...less than you or i would spend on a car. $36 billion at 10% (sgnificant underestimate) yields $9.8 million a year. this payment by microsoft is 15 days worth of interest. new car at ~$15,000 --> $3.6 million under the same conditions chump change for bill. evern more so for microsoft. jmb Annelise Anderson wrote: > > Meanwhile, what is Bill Gates going to do with Apple, assuming that > Apple probably needs continuing infusions of funds and Microsoft > therefore has some influence? > > --He got some anti-trust protection by keeping them alive > (by agreeing to produce Mac versions of Excel etc. for 5 years) > --He settled law suits, for an undisclosed sum > --He got access to at least some software.... > > But as a long term strategy.... > > --Rewrite the graphics etc. apps where Apple is the leader > for Windows (NT, whatever); let Apple struggle, die, get absorbed > --Rewrite the whole operating system to run on Intel & > compatible hardware, sell both operating systems, both sets of > software (or the Mac OS as an "add-on" to Windows; automatic > installation of both by clicking an icon, of course) > > Idle spectulation. > > Annelise > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 10:50:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01679 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01671 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11366; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708081749.KAA11366@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Pedro Giffuni S," cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: benchmarking FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:29:38 PDT." <33EB5782.7E2D@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:49:52 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I hate to say this however the linux os is old and in some ways so it is 2.2.1 . Now the figures does makes us look good 8) Tnks! Amancio >From The Desk Of "Pedro Giffuni S," : > Questo è un messaggio multi-parte scritto in formato MIME. > > --------------2D746EF7427F > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Howdy, > We went yesterday to Compaq Computer to benchmark FreeBSD. We didn't > optimize the kernel as our interest was only seeing if it work well on > Compaq boxes or not. > We had to remove the ultra-wide SCSI (RAID) card nad we couldn't get the > PCI network card configured (matter of time, perhaps). The bytebench was > interesting, as a lower end Prosignia gave about half the performance of > a middle class Proliant, except for one test where the Prosignia won. > The /var filesystem filled and therefore one of the tests failed. > I plan to make the results available on either the Newsletter or a web > page, > but I'm attaching the result of lmbench for a Prosignia 2500, in case > someone is interested. While the test was running we were running some > fancy stuff: > XFree86 with fvwm2, xplanet, xlock, and xsnow. (We had to give the right > impression to Compaq :-) ). > > cheers, > Pedro. > > --------------2D746EF7427F > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="LMBENCH.PRO" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Disposition: inline; filename="LMBENCH.PRO" > > cd Results && make summary percent | more > > L M B E N C H 1 . 0 S U M M A R Y > ------------------------------------ > > Processor, Processes - times in microseconds > -------------------------------------------- > Host OS Mhz Null Null Simple /bin/sh Mmap 2-proc 8-pr oc > Syscall Process Process Process lat ctxsw ctx sw > --------- ------------- ---- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------ ---- -- > rs6000 AIX 2 62 23 2.0K 7.3K 23K 3817 20 32 > myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 180 5 1.0K 6.1K 10K 57 5 5 > mako HP-UX A.09.01 65 22 2.7K 5.6K 17K 155 25 29 > seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 99 14 3.6K 10.1K 18K 116 47 55 > snake HP-UX A.09.01 66 21 2.6K 5.7K 17K 156 40 38 > IP22 IRIX 5.3 198 11 3.1K 8.0K 19K 260 66 94 > pentium Linux 1.1.54 91 3 3.3K 15.4K 49K 33 25 42 > alpha OSF1 V2.1 182 13 4.8K 16.1K 43K 172 54 85 > ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 50 9 10.7K 57.5K 113K 130 37 52 > ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 61 7 8.0K 45.8K 87K 104 0 0 > > *Local* Communication latencies in microseconds > ----------------------------------------------- > Host OS Pipe UDP RPC/ TCP RPC/ > UDP TCP > --------- ------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- > rs6000 AIX 2 143 385 820 498 1054 > myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 25 103 195 129 254 > mako HP-UX A.09.01 288 412 1302 374 1156 > seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 193 244 832 262 812 > snake HP-UX A.09.01 296 403 1195 367 1142 > IP22 IRIX 5.3 131 313 671 278 641 > pentium Linux 1.1.54 157 658 1030 1164 1591 > alpha OSF1 V2.1 185 404 718 428 851 > ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 194 590 935 560 1196 > ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 150 414 622 335 784 > > *Local* Communication bandwidths in megabytes/second > ---------------------------------------------------- > Host OS Pipe TCP File Mmap Bcopy Bcopy Mem Mem > reread reread (libc) (hand) read write > --------- ------------- ---- ---- ------ ------ ------ ------ ---- ----- > rs6000 AIX 2 34 6.0 76.1 63.0 81 120 99 169 > myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 155 36.7 8.5 76.9 1 1 198 74 > mako HP-UX A.09.01 27 18.7 34.4 22.5 22 24 45 39 > seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 38 35.2 44.7 32.1 25 31 49 52 > snake HP-UX A.09.01 19 17.8 34.4 22.3 22 24 45 39 > IP22 IRIX 5.3 34 22.1 32.3 43.7 32 31 69 66 > pentium Linux 1.1.54 13 2.4 9.8 4.7 18 18 48 32 > alpha OSF1 V2.1 32 12.1 39.4 22.7 39 41 76 78 > ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 11 11.0 22.9 30.0 26 31 80 62 > ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 24 19.5 31.0 30.7 23 24 59 40 > > Memory latencies in nanoseconds > (WARNING - may not be correct, check graphs) > -------------------------------------------- > Host OS Mhz L1 $ L2 $ Main mem TLB Guesses > --------- ------------- --- ---- ---- -------- --- ------- > rs6000 AIX 2 61 15 229 247 776 No L2 cache? > myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 179 8 28 270 314 > mako HP-UX A.09.01 65 - - - - Bad mhz? > seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 98 10 10 393 481 No L1 cache? > snake HP-UX A.09.01 65 15 15 378 1051 No L1 cache? > IP22 IRIX 5.3 197 10 76 1018 1129 > pentium Linux 1.1.54 90 11 294 439 1254 > alpha OSF1 V2.1 182 10 56 321 452 > ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 49 20 284 291 575 No L2 cache? > ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 60 16 115 816 961 > > L M B E N C H 1 . 0 S U M M A R Y > ------------------------------------ > > Comparison to best of the breed > ------------------------------- > > (Best numbers are starred, i.e., *123) > > > Processor, Processes - factor slower than the best > -------------------------------------------------- > Host OS Mhz Null Null Simple /bin/sh Mmap 2-proc 8-pr oc > Syscall Process Process Process lat ctxsw ctx sw > --------- ------------- ---- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------ ---- -- > rs6000 AIX 2 62 7.7 1.9 1.3 2.3 116 4.0 6 .4 > myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 180 1.7 *1.0K 1.1 *9.9K 1.7 *5 *5 > mako HP-UX A.09.01 65 7.3 2.6 *5.5K 1.7 4.7 5.0 5 .8 > seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 99 4.7 3.4 1.8 1.8 3.5 9.4 11 > snake HP-UX A.09.01 66 7.0 2.5 1.0 1.7 4.7 8.0 7 .6 > IP22 IRIX 5.3 198 3.7 3.0 1.4 1.8 7.9 13 19 > pentium Linux 1.1.54 91 *3 3.1 2.7 4.9 *33 5.0 8 .4 > alpha OSF1 V2.1 182 4.3 4.6 2.9 4.3 5.2 11 17 > ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 50 3.0 10 10 11 3.9 7.4 10 > ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 61 2.3 7.6 8.2 8.6 3.2 ??? ? ?? > > *Local* Communication latencies - factor slower than the best > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Host OS Pipe UDP RPC/ TCP RPC/ > UDP TCP > --------- ------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- > rs6000 AIX 2 5.7 3.7 4.2 3.9 4.1 > myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 *25 *103 *195 *129 *254 > mako HP-UX A.09.01 12 4.0 6.7 2.9 4.6 > seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 7.7 2.4 4.3 2.0 3.2 > snake HP-UX A.09.01 12 3.9 6.1 2.8 4.5 > IP22 IRIX 5.3 5.2 3.0 3.4 2.2 2.5 > pentium Linux 1.1.54 6.3 6.4 5.3 9.0 6.3 > alpha OSF1 V2.1 7.4 3.9 3.7 3.3 3.4 > ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 7.8 5.7 4.8 4.3 4.7 > ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 6.0 4.0 3.2 2.6 3.1 > > *Local* Communication bandwidths - percentage of the best > --------------------------------------------------------- > Host OS Pipe TCP File Mmap Bcopy Bcopy Mem Mem > reread reread (libc) (hand) read write > --------- ------------- ---- ---- ------ ------ ------ ------ ---- ----- > rs6000 AIX 2 22% 16% *76 81% *80 *119 50% *168 > myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 *155 *36 11% *76 0% 0% *197 43% > mako HP-UX A.09.01 17% 50% 45% 29% 27% 19% 22% 23% > seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 24% 96% 58% 41% 31% 25% 24% 30% > snake HP-UX A.09.01 12% 48% 45% 28% 27% 19% 22% 23% > IP22 IRIX 5.3 21% 60% 42% 56% 39% 25% 34% 38% > pentium Linux 1.1.54 8% 6% 12% 6% 22% 14% 24% 19% > alpha OSF1 V2.1 20% 32% 51% 29% 48% 33% 38% 46% > ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 7% 30% 30% 38% 31% 25% 40% 36% > ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 15% 53% 40% 39% 28% 19% 29% 23% > > Memory latencies in nanoseconds - factor slower than the best > (WARNING - may not be correct, check graphs) > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Host OS Mhz L1 $ L2 $ Main mem TLB Guesses > --------- ------------- --- ---- ---- -------- --- ------- > rs6000 AIX 2 61 1.9 ??? *247 2.5 No L2 cache? > myname.my FreeBSD 2.2.1 179 *8 2.8 1.1 *314 > mako HP-UX A.09.01 65 - - - - Bad mhz? > seahorse HP-UX A.09.03 98 ??? *10 1.6 1.5 No L1 cache? > snake HP-UX A.09.01 65 ??? 1.5 1.5 3.3 No L1 cache? > IP22 IRIX 5.3 197 1.2 7.6 4.1 3.6 > pentium Linux 1.1.54 90 1.4 29 1.8 4.0 > alpha OSF1 V2.1 182 1.2 5.6 1.3 1.4 > ss20.50 SunOS 5.4 49 2.5 ??? 1.2 1.8 No L2 cache? > ss20.61 SunOS 5.4 60 2.0 12 3.3 3.1 > > --------------2D746EF7427F-- > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 12:28:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07521 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usc.usc.unal.edu.co ([200.21.26.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA07498 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem07.usc.unal.edu.co by usc.usc.unal.edu.co (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA23050; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:19:07 -0400 Message-Id: <33EB8D76.4169@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:19:50 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: benchmarking FreeBSD References: <199708081749.KAA11366@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I hate to say this however the linux os is old and in some ways > so it is 2.2.1 . Now the figures does makes us look good 8) > I also hate to say this, but the benchmark is also old :(. I don't have Linux around, and I don't have current either, but the Proliant is probably the best known PC-server. At least I can now confirm FreeBSD is at least as fast as any other UNIX server. I'll try to run the same test on our AIX box and see how things go. Pedro. > Tnks! > Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 17:30:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25885 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25876 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nexgen.hiwaay.net (tnt2-123.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.123]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA15414 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:30:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nexgen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.hiwaay.net (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA08910 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:29:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708090029.TAA08910@nexgen.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: benchmarking FreeBSD In-reply-to: Message from "Pedro Giffuni S," of "Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:29:38 PDT." <33EB5782.7E2D@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 19:29:29 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On the subject of benchmarking, did anyone ever compile FreeBSD "worldstone" benchmarks in a useful reference? Was hoping Intel's recent much-forwarned price drop was going to make some interesting prices, but haven't seen much yet. Have been debating some variation of a Pentium, probably on a Tyan Tomcat IV MB with the switching CPU voltage regulator. Would like to think I could trust an AMD K6. OTOH, 150 MHz and 180 MHz Pentium Pros are in the same price ballpark and are also attractive. MB and Pentium II appear to be twice the price of a low end Pentium Pro or middle range socket-7 chip solution. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 17:31:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25936 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25930 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12911 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708090031.RAA12911@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: I thought some of you may find this interesting.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 17:31:24 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Not sure if it makes a difference however I placed public.com on my sendmail kill file. Amancio Return-path: abuse@aol.com Received: from ctynet.com (root@[205.199.4.215] (may be forged)) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12551 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:35:41 -0700 (PDT) X-advertisement: Visit http://www.iemmc.org for name removal information. Message-id: Reply-to: dayton@onramp.net X-uidl: KEEPSPAMMING! - f*ck the antispammers! From: abuse@aol.com Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 22:33:01 EST To: Friend@public.com Subject: CHECK *T-H-I-S* OUT! /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Power Promo is back on line with vcity.net! /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ELECTRONIC MARKETING WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. See www.powerpromo.com for full details! READY TO MAKE SOME S-E-R-I-O-U-S $$$$$$$$$s ? New! My Sonic e-mail address collector out this coming week - collect up to 60 thousand addresses per hour off the internet! Includes 'newsgroup address decoder' so you get the addresses of all those guys who put NOSPAM etc. in their addresses! - $299 New! 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FORREST DAYTON President of PowerPromo Inc. dayton@onramp.net www.powerpromo.com Or call: 770-218-5818 From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 20:10:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03695 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03689 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA04755; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:10:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:10:35 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199708090310.UAA04755@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I thought some of you may find this interesting.... In-Reply-To: <199708090031.RAA12911.kithrup.freebsd.chat@rah.star-gate.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199708090031.RAA12911.kithrup.freebsd.chat@rah.star-gate.com> you write: >Not sure if it makes a difference however I placed public.com on >my sendmail kill file. You shouldn't. They're victims of forgery. (the domain has been put on hold, admittedly. The owner probably got tired of the problems.) If you look at the header, you see: >Received: from ctynet.com (root@[205.199.4.215] (may be forged)) > by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12551 > for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:35:41 -0700 (PDT) That is the network I have labeled as "sallynet". They are an AGIS customer. I have them blocked. My machine rebooted around 3AM today (Friday); since that time: sallynet localhost UGR 0 266 lo0 - - 266 packet attempts. Bastards. >X-advertisement: Visit http://www.iemmc.org for name removal information. There have, to date, been dozens of proofs that this does not work. This will land AGIS, CP, sallynet, quantumcom, etc., in serious trouble. The sooner the better. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 22:25:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA08251 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA08228; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA20153; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 15:24:25 +1000 From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA00451; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:54:24 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199708090524.OAA00451@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Any FreeBSD people in Tokyo? To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Chat), questions@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Questions) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:54:23 +0930 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'll be spending the next week (starting Sunday morning Tokyo time) in Tokyo. Is anybody there interested in getting together? You can contact me at the Dai-ichi hotel Tokyo Seafort (phone 5460-4411), or at Tandem Computers (sorry, don't have the phone number handy) from Monday onward. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 22:59:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA09271 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09260; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA08010; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:10:06 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:10:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708090610.AAA08010@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FTC regulating use of registrations In-Reply-To: <199707231724.KAA01326@hub.freebsd.org> References: <199707231619.BAA09925@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199707231724.KAA01326@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan M. Bresler writes: > Michael Smith wrote: > > > > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > There is a far easier solution to this problem, of course: > > > Don't &%$!@#* reproduce! > > > > Woo! Go team! Voluntary ZPG! > > who will volunteer for ZPG....the best educated, the most > caring members of society or least? would you want to live > in a society that results from X generations of the best > educated and most caring members of society practicing > ZPG while the rest of society did not...not for me, thank you. Jonathan, here in the good old USA, we already do. Look what it has gotten us. Scary recipe, huh? In reponse to those who think the one-income family is a thing of the past in the USA, I'd say you ARE putting your careers ahead of your families. I did it. It's not easy; when my wife left work after our baby was born she was making $36K/year, and on the way up. We bought a house two months later and our housing costs doubled. So now we live on 33% less salary, with muchly increased housing costs, and it is worth every financial sacrifice we've made to be assured that our little girl is being raised by her parents rather than by a stranger paid less than the legal minimum wage in clandestine cash payments, which is the typical "nanny" arrangement around here. I've decided that Bailey is more important than a Pentium system for myself, or a new car for Diane, or anything else for that matter. And I do believe the USA and the rest of the planet would be better off if all parents made the same choices; if we put our children before our toys, careers, recreational activities, educations, political goals, and everything else. And for whoever chastised me for turning this into a USA political debate, how could *anything* having to do with the US FTC *not be a USA political issue?* That was the dumbest statement I've ever read on the FreeBSD lists. Oh, and Bill Pechter: don't be so touchy. I wasn't blaming this problem on "the liberals," just on "those liberals." ;^) You know, the busybodies who want to legislate everything about how I am to raise my child(ren). Sorry to have touched off such a flame war. Everyone who has children, go home and kiss them. Everyone who doesn't: get off the stick, dammit! The fact that you're FreeBSD users already shows a tendency towards intelligence; you are *exactly* the kind of people who *should be* procreating! (Yes, Jordan, this includes you! The world would be a better place with a couple of little Jordans and/or Jordanettes running around, being release coordinators for FreeBSD 37.x) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 23:19:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA10131 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10122 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA09080; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708090630.AAA09080@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: "Pedro Giffuni S," CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD really a project? (introduction to WISE) In-Reply-To: <33DFA5EB.1766@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> References: <199707301659.KAA12699@xmission.xmission.com> <33DFA5EB.1766@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Pedro Giffuni S. writes: > One thing I have always wanted to know are what are the objectives > behing each individual release..For example, what was so critical about > 3.0 that deserved that great step in the numbering? It had to be > something as drastic as the 4.3BSD to 4.4BSD update, but normal users Never forget that version numbers are marketing, not engineering, information. ;^) Oddly enough, I think Microsoft did the world a favor with their NT "build number" information by tacitly admitting that version numbers are *not* an engineering artifact anymore, if they ever were. I've recently been involved in a lot of dicussions of when to make the software for my latest project "2.0"; what constitutes a big enough feature upgrade. It came down to one big feature and whatever else we can stuff into it in time. ;^) Strictly a marketing decision, too. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 8 23:23:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA10330 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10324 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02101; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708090623.XAA02101@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I thought some of you may find this interesting.... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Aug 1997 20:10:35 PDT." <199708090310.UAA04755@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 23:23:11 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Sean Eric Fagan : > >Received: from ctynet.com (root@[205.199.4.215] (may be forged)) > > by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12551 > > for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:35:41 -0700 (PDT) > > That is the network I have labeled as "sallynet". They are an AGIS > customer. Cool, I just placed ctynet.com on my kill file 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 00:14:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12044 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12039 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id BAA12406; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 01:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 01:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708090724.BAA12406@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Greg Lehey CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysadmin levels today? In-Reply-To: <199708010028.JAA07936@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199708010028.JAA07936@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey writes: > Marc Slemko writes: > > 43. [M93] Which "traditional" TCP/IP service is often the most problematic > > for microcomputers to provide? > > > > Remote printing. > > File transfer protocol (FTP). > > Hypertext transfer protocol (HTTP). > > Computer mail. > > > > (the correct answer is huh? Use FreeBSD.) > > Precisely. Local knowledge? Nope, just a more general look at the problem. By "microcomputers" they mean "bonehead PCs and Macs that get switched off and don't have stable, reliable TCP/IP network stacks." For this reason, the commonly accepted answer amongst PC dweebs everywhere is "computer mail", which requires the computer to be on all the time. E-mail is a peer-to-peer arrangement by nature, whereas the other three are client-server oriented. I'll have to go give this questionaire a try. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 03:14:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA17550 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 03:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (eivind@bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA17543 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 03:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA00316; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:12:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:12:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199708091012.MAA00316@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Sean Eric Fagan CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Sean Eric Fagan's message of Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:10:35 -0700 Subject: Re: I thought some of you may find this interesting.... References: <199708090031.RAA12911.kithrup.freebsd.chat@rah.star-gate.com> <199708090310.UAA04755@kithrup.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >X-advertisement: Visit http://www.iemmc.org for name removal information. > > There have, to date, been dozens of proofs that this does not work. This > will land AGIS, CP, sallynet, quantumcom, etc., in serious trouble. The > sooner the better. > I got interesting information from one of my contacts yesterday (the abuse contact of a major ISP). They had as an experiment created an e-mail account, and sent out a single mail to _abuse@uu.net_; they then started getting heavily spammed... Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 05:12:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA22020 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lsmarso.dialup.access.net (lsmarso.dialup.access.net [166.84.254.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA22015 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from lsmarso@localhost) by lsmarso.dialup.access.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA00915 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19970809080913.26095@panix.com> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:09:13 -0400 From: "Larry S. Marso" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: good sendmail kill file? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Would anyone who HATES spam and taken time to build a good sendmail kill file consider posting it? -- Larry S. Marso lsmarso@panix.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 05:55:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA22951 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from logic.it (mod15.logic.it [195.120.151.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA22945 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1234 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Aug 1997 12:55:13 -0000 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:55:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marco Molteni X-Sender: molter@dumbwinter.ecomotor.it To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Apple Newton MessagePad Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all In quest of a way to drastically limit the amount of various-shaped pieces of papers floating around my desk, folders and briefcase [1] when I need to jot down or to retrieve (!) something (eg University notes, memorandum, URLs, ...), I found the Apple Newton MessagePad, which seems pretty cool: 1. LCD display sufficiently wide 2. interfaceable to a PC 3. handwritten recognition 4. real keyboard Any comment about this toy or suggestions about similar ones ? Thanks Marco [1] (hey, this is my best english phrase ever ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 07:15:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA25184 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25178; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA02307; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:12:45 -0700 (PDT) To: Wes Peters cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FTC regulating use of registrations In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Aug 1997 00:10:06 MDT." <199708090610.AAA08010@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 07:12:44 -0700 Message-ID: <2303.871135964@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > procreating! (Yes, Jordan, this includes you! The world would be a > better place with a couple of little Jordans and/or Jordanettes running > around, being release coordinators for FreeBSD 37.x) Thanks for that mental image, Wes. I think you've finally given me that critical boost I needed in courage to go have The Snip(tm) at a local vasectomy clinic. ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 09:07:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29732 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29725 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-149.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.149]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA25104 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:07:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nexgen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.hiwaay.net (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA08970 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:51:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708090051.TAA08970@nexgen.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. In-reply-to: Message from Annelise Anderson of "Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:03:28 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 19:51:56 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu said: > Meanwhile, what is Bill Gates going to do with Apple, assuming that > Apple probably needs continuing infusions of funds and Microsoft > therefore has some influence? Think if you look closely, Apple didn't need a paltry $150M any worse than Bill Gates does. While losing money, Apple has been losing their own cash, not borrowed money. MacOS 8 is selling better than expected. Clone and Apple hardware sales are up. Two new generations of PowerPC chips will ship by Christmas. The CHRP PowerPC's are about to ship too. What Microsoft's $150M did was sock the Apple-doomsayer-media in the mouth. Microsoft got a good buy. Apple got more than $150M in good press. Microsoft needs Apple, witness NT, and also look at the performance coming out of PowerPC systems these days vs. Intel. PowerMacs are eating everything else for lunch in the Bovine RC5 crunch at http://rc5.distributed.net. Damn! Still no PowerPC version of FreeBSD? :-) Maybe Rhapsody will be stout enough to port/support everything but FreeBSD's kernel and make a Un*x out of it? Yeah, yeah, wishfull thinking... -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 09:40:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01498 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rosemary.fsl.noaa.gov (rosemary.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.8.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01493 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saffron.fsl.noaa.gov (saffron [137.75.253.44]) by rosemary.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06890; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <33ECAB5E.5439@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:39:42 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Reply-To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marco Molteni CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apple Newton MessagePad References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Any comment about this toy or suggestions about similar ones ? I'm partial to the PalmPilot, from US Robotics. It lacks a lot of features compared to the latest Newtons or Windows CE (whatever the heck that means) palm computers, but it's cheap, does what I need, and fits in my shirt pocket, which no other palm computer can boast. So far. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 11:47:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07455 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usc.usc.unal.edu.co ([200.21.26.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07439 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem08.usc.unal.edu.co by usc.usc.unal.edu.co (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA20310; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:40:20 -0400 Message-Id: <33ECB0EE.5D23@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 11:03:26 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD really a project? (introduction to WISE) References: <199707301659.KAA12699@xmission.xmission.com> <33DFA5EB.1766@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> <199708090630.AAA09080@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wes Peters wrote: > > Never forget that version numbers are marketing, not engineering, > information. ;^) Yeah, that's true. The growing number gives the general public the (correct) impression that FreeBSD is a mature product. I hope we DON'T get to version 95 soon, though. ;-) Pedro. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 12:11:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA08553 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08548 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06587; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708091911.MAA06587@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov cc: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple Newton MessagePad In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:39:42 PDT." <33ECAB5E.5439@fsl.noaa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 12:11:43 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Same here plus I like the PalmPilot. I think that there is a unix interface for it. Regards, Amancio >From The Desk Of Sean Kelly : > > Any comment about this toy or suggestions about similar ones ? > > I'm partial to the PalmPilot, from US Robotics. It lacks a lot of > features compared to the latest Newtons or Windows CE (whatever the heck > that means) palm computers, but it's cheap, does what I need, and fits > in my shirt pocket, which no other palm computer can boast. So far. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 12:29:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09204 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from u1.farm.idt.net (root@u1.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09199 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from idt.net (ppp-32.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.32]) by u1.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15331 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 15:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33ECC4C3.4C4EF3C2@idt.net> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 15:28:03 -0400 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02b7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple Newton MessagePad References: <33ECAB5E.5439@fsl.noaa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Kelly wrote: > > > Any comment about this toy or suggestions about similar ones ? > > I'm partial to the PalmPilot, from US Robotics. It lacks a lot of > features compared to the latest Newtons or Windows CE (whatever the heck > that means) palm computers ^^ "Compact Edition" From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 14:51:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16228 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16223 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07411; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:51:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Sean Kelly cc: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple Newton MessagePad In-Reply-To: <33ECAB5E.5439@fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Sean Kelly wrote: > > Any comment about this toy or suggestions about similar ones ? > > I'm partial to the PalmPilot, from US Robotics. It lacks a lot of > features compared to the latest Newtons or Windows CE (whatever the heck > that means) palm computers, but it's cheap, does what I need, and fits > in my shirt pocket, which no other palm computer can boast. So far. Seconded, I bought my wife one for Christmas last year, and knew before I got home that I'd be buying one for myself soon. I keep it in my belt case (aka, the geek case) everywhere I go, and it's not inconvenient to leave there, barely more bulky than my pager. The CE PDAs might be nice to someone who insists on having a keyboard, but most of what I do with the pilot is look up info and play games (including Zork). The time I loose by not having a keyboard is easily offset by the time I gain because my Pilot is always with me. And besides, now that there's a couple of basically free software development kits, I'm thinking of doing some programming for it. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 15:42:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18736 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 15:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18723 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 15:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id SAA01246; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id SAA09180; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:42:37 -0400 (EDT) To: "Gary T. Corcoran" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Apple Newton MessagePad In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Aug 1997 15:28:03 EDT." <33ECC4C3.4C4EF3C2@idt.net> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 18:42:37 -0400 Message-ID: <9178.871166557@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Gary T. Corcoran" wrote in message ID <33ECC4C3.4C4EF3C2@idt.net>: > > I'm partial to the PalmPilot, from US Robotics. It lacks a lot of > > features compared to the latest Newtons or Windows CE (whatever the heck > > that means) palm computers ^^ > "Compact Edition" Wanna hear something funny? It's impossible to turn of WINS resolution on the Windows CE platform. Unlike its bigger brother, Win95, you can't make it do proper DNS resolution (this is 2nd hand from a convo one of tech support had with M$ tech support). Kinda makes Windows CE a bit broken for dialing into most ISPs :( Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 16:21:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA20074 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from foo.primenet.com (ip213.sjc.primenet.com [206.165.96.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20065 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bkogawa@localhost) by foo.primenet.com (8.8.6/8.6.12) id QAA05328; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708092326.QAA05328@foo.primenet.com> To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Status of USB, TX chipset, PIIX3, etc. Newsgroups: localhost.freebsd.chat References: <> <199708090051.TAA08970@nexgen.hiwaay.net> From: "Bryan K. Ogawa" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In localhost.freebsd.chat you write: >andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu said: >> Meanwhile, what is Bill Gates going to do with Apple, assuming that >> Apple probably needs continuing infusions of funds and Microsoft >> therefore has some influence? >Think if you look closely, Apple didn't need a paltry $150M any worse than >Bill Gates does. While losing money, Apple has been losing their own cash, >not borrowed money. [rest snipped] This is a very interesting assesment. >Maybe Rhapsody will be stout enough to port/support everything but >FreeBSD's kernel and make a Un*x out of it? Yeah, yeah, wishfull thinking... But Rhapsody should be 8/10ths of Unix anyway... I even heard it will come with Lites, so the only "non-unixy" part is the kernel and all of the added Mac stuff. -- bryan k ogawa http://www.primenet.com/~bkogawa/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 19:41:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28050 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 19:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28045 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 19:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA13075; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 19:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd013073; Sat Aug 9 19:41:37 1997 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id TAA10733; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 19:41:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199708100241.TAA10733@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: From MAD Magazine To: bsdnet@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 19:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From MAD Magazine in the spoof of "Mil-lemon-ium": "I'm Dr. Frasier Crane, noted Seattle radio psychiatrist! Is the Mil-lemon-ium Group correct? Are there dark forces afoot here in our au courant city? Is there a segment of the human population dedicated to controlling our lives, perpetrating unspeakable acts on humanity and causing nothing but psychological pain and misery ? One word: Microsoft! -- Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 20:15:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA29035 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goodall1.u.washington.edu (pharaoh@goodall1.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29030 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pharaoh@localhost) by goodall1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.06) with SMTP id UAA34698 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:15:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:15:04 -0700 (PDT) From: E Lakin To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple Newton MessagePad In-Reply-To: <199708091911.MAA06587@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There is also a unix interface for the Newton - although i haven't got it compiled yet. It's at http://www.tcel.com/~aehall/newtl/ On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: ? Same here plus I like the PalmPilot. I think that there is a unix ? interface for it. ? ? Regards, ? Amancio ? ? From The Desk Of Sean Kelly : ? > > Any comment about this toy or suggestions about similar ones ? From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 20:33:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA29653 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA29645; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:33:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199708100333.UAA29645@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FTC regulating use of registrations To: softweyr@xmission.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199708090610.AAA08010@obie.softweyr.ml.org> from "Wes Peters" at Aug 9, 97 00:10:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk possible incindiary material..... ;) Wes Peters wrote: > > Jonathan M. Bresler writes: > > Michael Smith wrote: > > > > > > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > > There is a far easier solution to this problem, of course: > > > > Don't &%$!@#* reproduce! > > > > > > Woo! Go team! Voluntary ZPG! > > > > who will volunteer for ZPG....the best educated, the most > > caring members of society or least? would you want to live > > in a society that results from X generations of the best > > educated and most caring members of society practicing > > ZPG while the rest of society did not...not for me, thank you. > > Jonathan, here in the good old USA, we already do. Look what it has > gotten us. Scary recipe, huh? i am here in the usa....and it does concern me. the social changes in decently educated people will make it harder to create the citizentry of hte next generation. not impossible, but harder....could lead to greater social balkanization...gated communities, decline of public schools and opt-out by those that can afford to do so leaving an impoverished public life. (less funding for public libraries, schools, redirection of public funds to private or religious schools....these will not benefit the country as a whole.) > > In reponse to those who think the one-income family is a thing of the > past in the USA, I'd say you ARE putting your careers ahead of your > families. I did it. It's not easy; when my wife left work after our > baby was born she was making $36K/year, and on the way up. We bought a > house two months later and our housing costs doubled. > > So now we live on 33% less salary, with muchly increased housing costs, > and it is worth every financial sacrifice we've made to be assured that > our little girl is being raised by her parents rather than by a stranger > paid less than the legal minimum wage in clandestine cash payments, > which is the typical "nanny" arrangement around here. > > I've decided that Bailey is more important than a Pentium system for > myself, or a new car for Diane, or anything else for that matter. And I > do believe the USA and the rest of the planet would be better off if all > parents made the same choices; if we put our children before our toys, > careers, recreational activities, educations, political goals, and > everything else. i am there, doing it, got the 1040 tax forms to prove it ;) > > And for whoever chastised me for turning this into a USA political > debate, how could *anything* having to do with the US FTC *not be a USA > political issue?* That was the dumbest statement I've ever read on the > FreeBSD lists. > > Oh, and Bill Pechter: don't be so touchy. I wasn't blaming this problem > on "the liberals," just on "those liberals." ;^) You know, the > busybodies who want to legislate everything about how I am to raise my > child(ren). i thought those people were the conservative, "religious" right and "moral majority" ;) well, at least thats who there are in this neck of the woods. > > Sorry to have touched off such a flame war. Everyone who has children, > go home and kiss them. Everyone who doesn't: get off the stick, dammit! > The fact that you're FreeBSD users already shows a tendency towards > intelligence; you are *exactly* the kind of people who *should be* > procreating! (Yes, Jordan, this includes you! The world would be a > better place with a couple of little Jordans and/or Jordanettes running > around, being release coordinators for FreeBSD 37.x) jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 21:21:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA01464 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 21:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01458; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 21:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA18956; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA26981; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:22:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:22:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Wes Peters , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FTC regulating use of registrations In-Reply-To: <199708100333.UAA29645@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > possible incindiary material..... ;) hehe... :-) > i am here in the usa....and it does concern me. > the social changes in decently educated people will make > it harder to create the citizentry of hte next generation. > not impossible, but harder....could lead to greater social > balkanization...gated communities, decline of public > schools and opt-out by those that can afford to do so I suspect gated communities specifically are just a fad, but what makes them seem appealing is not. The increased "us" and "them" separation is nothing but trouble. :-( > leaving an impoverished public life. (less funding for > public libraries, schools, redirection of public funds > to private or religious schools....these will not > benefit the country as a whole.) Hmm... I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in this particular province here, those going to a private or religious school find themselves paying twice, once for the public system, and then again for themselves. Would a change to the tax system so that those going to a separate system pay only the difference twice seem reasonable to you? (ie. if one normally had to pay 7$ to the public system, but one currently had children privately educated, paying 10$, one would pay only the difference, 3$, to the public system). Incidentally, if you say "No, this is not reasonable; people going to a private school have tons of money to spare, anyways", I will be tempted to yell at you very loudly. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 23:10:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04701 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (joelh@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04696 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id CAA03240; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 02:10:10 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 02:10:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199708100610.CAA03240@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: pechter@lakewood.com CC: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199708061049.GAA01717@i4got.lakewood.com> (message from Bill Pechter on Wed, 6 Aug 1997 06:49:02 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Hang on a second, UUNet is the Internet 8) >> At least thats what their actions are implying --- "to hell with >> netiguettes we are Uunet" !! > They really have forgotten their roots and humble start. > Boy have they become a real Pain In The Ass since they dropped the UUCP > business to small sites and started hanging out with the likes of > Microsoft 8-) Well, the Internet has changed from its humble beginnings as the old UUCP net, and ARPANET. Used to it was ham radio, then BBS's, then the net. What bastions for hobbyists are there now, something where the popularity doesn't make me sick after fifteen minutes of use? -- Second law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 9 23:26:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA05118 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05113 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA01142; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708100625.XAA01142@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu cc: pechter@lakewood.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uunet vs. internet In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Aug 1997 02:10:10 EDT." <199708100610.CAA03240@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 23:25:49 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chaos will rule in the Internet however when it affects my inbox thats a whole different ball game. Besides, if we don't stop this popular new trend you can kiss global public e-mail good bye . As the days go by , I am leaning more and more to simply shutdown my e-mail subsystem and only let very few entries in. So if the spammers win rest assure that many will do as I am thinking of. Amancio >From The Desk Of Joel Ray Holveck : > > >> Hang on a second, UUNet is the Internet 8) > >> At least thats what their actions are implying --- "to hell with > >> netiguettes we are Uunet" !! > > They really have forgotten their roots and humble start. > > Boy have they become a real Pain In The Ass since they dropped the UUCP > > business to small sites and started hanging out with the likes of > > Microsoft 8-) > > Well, the Internet has changed from its humble beginnings as the > old UUCP net, and ARPANET. Used to it was ham radio, then BBS's, then > the net. What bastions for hobbyists are there now, something where > the popularity doesn't make me sick after fifteen minutes of use? > > -- > Second law of programming: > Anything that can go wrong wi > sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped