From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 23 04:20:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA06004 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 04:20:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA05997 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 04:20:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA19817; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:20:46 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA00460; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:12:44 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971123131243.SI23883@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:12:43 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: cmott@srv.net (Charles Mott) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Book Club References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Charles Mott on Nov 22, 1997 14:56:02 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Charles Mott wrote: > Well, I went out and bought these books. My opinion is > that Gilluwe's book is solid but Shanley's is a little low > denisity (I might return it). Any other recommendations? There are few areas however where Gilluwe is completely off. I remember his lengthy discussion about the head load/unload stuff in the floppy controller, when (with a few exceptions) the last drives that actually did on-demand head-loading were the 8-inch floppies that never made it into the typical PeeCee he's talking about. (This stuff is still in proud letters there in the second edition.) In general however, and taking some of his comments with the grain of salt you need to take when reading the words of someone who's mainly working in DOS 16-bit code, his book has proven to be a valuable resource of information. Btw., does anybody know what happened to TECH Help! by Flambeaux Software? This used to be my source of information about hardware details before van Gilluwe, but my copy is rather ancient now and doesn't cover most of the things one needs these days. It's a DOS program, but runs well enough in pcemu to have it readily available even under FreeBSD. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 24 03:32:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA26548 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 03:32:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from oldman.steinkamm.com (arne@OldMan.Steinkamm.COM [194.127.175.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA26531 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 03:32:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from arne@oldman.steinkamm.com) Received: (from arne@localhost) by oldman.steinkamm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21456; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:32:19 +0100 (MET) From: Arne Steinkamm Message-Id: <199711241132.MAA21456@oldman.steinkamm.com> Subject: Support from Intel To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:32:18 +0100 (MET) Cc: arne@Steinkamm.COM (Arne Steinkamm) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No FreeBSD on http://support.intel.com/support/processors/pentium/ppiie/software.htm .//. Arne -- Arne Steinkamm | Mail (MIME): Arne@Steinkamm.COM IRC: Arne Tel.: +49.89.299.756 | URL: http://WWW.Steinkamm.COM/ NIC-Handle: AS306 Robert-Koch-Str. 4 | "There's coffee in that nebula" D-80538 Muenchen | Cptn. Kathryn Janeway, ST:VOY - The Cloud From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 24 21:55:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14475 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:55:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14466 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:54:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@xmission.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA06049; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:02:42 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:02:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199711250602.XAA06049@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Artificial Lifeform? In-Reply-To: <19971122130701.LP34424@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <34735D3D.3F55C3DF@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <199711210449.VAA14996@obie.softweyr.ml.org> <19971122130701.LP34424@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J. Wunsch writes: > As Wes Peters wrote: > > > Xlock, the screen locker. One of the "screen saver" displays is > > Conway's "game of life" using Sun logos. ;^) > > Pah, when did you try it last on FreeBSD? Probably more than two > years ago, maybe even three. That's the time when i've submitted the > daemon logo to the xlockmore maintainer. :) Yeah, somebody else mentioned this, so I loaded it on my machine and fooled around a bit. You're right, I was *way* out of date. I'd never seen the little daemons on the life screen, nor most of the other modes. The last version I looked at came with FreeBSD 1.1.5, when I was still working on a X-based security system. The new displays are quite impressive. I'll install it on a couple of the FreeBSD servers at work tomorrow, along with xautolock; I'm always wandering off and leaving them logged in as root. > Wait, we've got CVS :-P > > revision 1.2 > date: 1995/02/22 22:48:10; author: joerg; state: Exp; lines: +7 -6 > Upgrade this beast to the most recent version. > > Now we've got the BSD daemon incorporated into the distribution. :-) Just goes to show you how secure my system at home is. I guess I've been working in friendly environments for too long. At Axent, since we made system security products, it was considered company policy to break into each other's systems and do nasty things like send e-mail to the entire company about your (hopefully non-existant) itchy rash, marital problems, etc. The only person here I have to guard against is my 20-month old daughter, who has a talent for crashing computers by beating on the keyboard. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 01:00:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA27341 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:00:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from jg.webmaster.com (newport-1-14.quick.net [207.212.160.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA27332 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:00:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josh@jg.webmaster.com) Received: (from josh@localhost) by jg.webmaster.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA05313; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:00:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971125010031.51237@webmaster.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:00:31 -0800 From: Josh Gilliam To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/misc/display - Imported sources References: <199711240026.QAA29159@freefall.freebsd.org> <199711240213.CAA28265@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199711240213.CAA28265@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-IRC: soil X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Display runs a specified command over and over, printing the output > > through curses(3X). The command can be compound and the delay > > between executions is settable on the command line. The output > > from the command had better fit on a single screen, of course. > > > > PR: ports/4384 > > Submitted by: Stephen J. Roznowski > > Horray ! I saw a copy of this a few years ago, but forgot the name > ;-) THANK YOU ! Here is a small shell script from 'UGU' which basically has the same purpose. ----- begin show.sh ----- #!/bin/sh # Unix Tip #315- November 11, 1997- by ulli@ucrc.org # http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?I=tip.315&F=1111111111&G=Y tput clear while tput home; do $* sleep 1 done ----- end show.sh ----- -- Josh Gilliam Orange, California josh@quick.net From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 07:25:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA19217 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:25:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from osmail.onesource.com (osmail.onesource.com [206.33.228.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA19209 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:25:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 3eDBRUM85@1yrdue.net) From: 3eDBRUM85@1yrdue.net Received: from 787tF51cu (usr36-dialup26.mix2.Atlanta.mci.net [166.55.59.218]) by osmail.onesource.com (2.0 Build 2119 (Berkeley 8.8.4)/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA00898; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:19:56 -0500 DATE: 24 Nov 10 10:25:14 AM Message-ID: TO: wemail@4uonthe.net SUBJECT: We will mail 4 U Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk LET US DO YOUR BULK MAILINGS!!! ..$250 PER MILLION THE WAY OF THE FUTURE FOR SUCCESS IN YOUR BUSINESS! Our company will do bulk emailing for your product/service. Addresses are extracted daily by four of our computers, which run 24 hours a day 7 days a week, scanning the net for new addresses. They are fresh! Over 36 million addresses on file. No more than 2 pages (50 lines), no porn and no foul language. We do not do targeted mailings at this price. Targeted mailings $150 per 50,000 addresses extracted. There are no lower prices on the net. Your mailing can be done in a matter of hours. We have 4 computers extracting addresses 24/7. For the fastest service, cheapest prices and cleanest mailings call our processing and new accounts office at 904-282-0945, Monday - Friday 9 - 5 EST. If the line is busy, please keep trying, as bulk mailing is growing fast. We do want to work with you to advertise your product. $250 per million expires December 1, 1997. Price increases to $350 per million, $250 per 500,000. All orders received before December 1 will not reflect the increase. Even with the increase, we will still be the best prices on the net. To have your name removed, call our processing office. Any negative responses will be dealt with accordingly. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 09:05:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27401 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:05:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27393 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:05:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@fsl.noaa.gov) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08694 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:45:29 GMT Received: from fsl.noaa.gov (auk.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.124]) by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07610 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:45:29 GMT Message-ID: <347B00A8.1770F31@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:45:28 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/725) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Japan FreeBSDers really cracking that RC5! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was just looking over the stats of the RC5-64 cracking effort (http://rc5stats.distributed.net). FreeBSD users in Japan are kicking butt! According to the "Top 100 Overall" list the team "Japan FreeBSD Users Group" has been in the running for only six days and have already taken 7th place. Just yesterday, the "individual" rc5@jp.freebsd.org held first place beating rc5@linux.or.jp with over twice as many blocks checked. Other teams in the top ten have been there for about a month or more. But the Japan FreeBSD Users Group has a decent amount of blocks under its belt (628,000) and in only six days time. It will still take an monumental effort to unseat the first place team, the Apple EvangeListas, who have done over four million blocks. (Those Apple users have an incredible rc5 client. Is there an instruction on the PowerPC called "CRK-RC5" which does a key check in a single cycle?) Team FreeBSD is looking a bit green next to this. But hey, if they're helping promote FreeBSD, more power to them! --Sean From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 09:54:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA02515 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:54:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02509 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:54:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07393; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:54:16 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id LAA24071; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:53:44 -0600 Message-ID: <19971125115344.51647@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:53:44 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Sean Kelly Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Japan FreeBSDers really cracking that RC5! References: <347B00A8.1770F31@fsl.noaa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <347B00A8.1770F31@fsl.noaa.gov>; from Sean Kelly on Nov 11, 1997 at 09:45:28AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 11, 1997 at 09:45:28AM -0700, Sean Kelly wrote: > According to the "Top 100 Overall" list the team "Japan FreeBSD Users > Group" has been in the running for only six days and have already taken > 7th place. Just yesterday, the "individual" rc5@jp.freebsd.org held > first place beating rc5@linux.or.jp with over twice as many blocks > checked. I want to know what platform they are using. Certainly not Macs? Has Satoshi dedicated all the build servers to running RC5? :-) > Team FreeBSD is looking a bit green next to this. But hey, if they're > helping promote FreeBSD, more power to them! Heh. Consider it this way: there are now 2 FreeBSD teams in the top 20. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 10:25:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04912 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:25:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04905 for chat; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:25:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:25:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711251825.KAA04905@hub.freebsd.org> To: chat Subject: test new majorodmo Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk we got spammed bad! rush new majorodmo into production test. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 10:44:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07177 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:44:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07080 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:44:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from don@partsnow.com) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA08823 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:42:13 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from wildeweb(192.168.100.10) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma008820; Tue, 25 Nov 97 10:42:03 -0800 Message-ID: <347B1C0B.EF34EBC7@partsnow.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:42:19 -0800 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: don@wildeweb.partsnow.com Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: particularly obnoxious SPAMmer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am willing to pay for a plane ticket for anyone willing to shotgun the entire office full of whoever the SPAMMER is that's begun today to send out these obnoxious 'We will mail 4 u' presents. I have gotten 9 messages already. Don't anybody dare give me an address associated with the 904-282-0945 phone number they show. I'll gladly commit mass murder myself... From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 10:55:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08695 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:55:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08302; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:53:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: (from luomat@localhost) by luomat.peak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01005; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:53:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711251853.NAA01005@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) X-Image-URL: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/luomat@peak.org.tiff X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.1) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148.RR) From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Tue, 25 Nov 97 13:53:44 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U cc: spamcomplaints@MCI.NET, SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM Reply-To: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM X-Image-URL-Disclaimer: hey, it's off my student ID, gimme a break ;-) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk My apologies for the wide-crosspost, I just wanted to save some folks some time. >From searching several phone directories online, it appears that the person who sent this spam did so on behalf of: Jack Luke 39 Panda Av Middleburg, FL 32068-4765 (904) 282-0945 That was the phone number listed in the spam which hit about 8 or 9 times on the FreeBSD lists, and I assume the wider internet as well. Keep in mind that this information might be outdated, but all the reverse phone directories I used came up with this same name. I could not find a real-email address for him in FL by that name, and his name is too common for a general email search (which turned up several matches). Be sure to voice your complaint to MCI, who owned the dialups which were used to send this crap. spamcomplaints@MCI.NET If anyone is near Jack, please feel free to give him a call and pass along our fondest thanks for sending this crap repeatedly to the same addresses. TjL, spam-hater From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 11:52:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15401 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:52:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15361 for chat; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:52:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:52:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711251952.LAA15361@hub.freebsd.org> To: chat Subject: moved to 1.94 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk still working? From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 11:59:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16673 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:59:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16662 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:59:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from don@partsnow.com) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id LAA09307 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:57:15 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from wildeweb(192.168.100.10) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma009304; Tue, 25 Nov 97 11:56:56 -0800 Message-ID: <347B2D98.AA6F6122@partsnow.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:57:12 -0800 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: don@wildeweb.partsnow.com Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: particularly obnoxious SPAMmer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Sorry for my previous post, folks. These people just are so callous it puts me into white heat. WHat's even worse is that by calling the telephone number you actually get a human being who -- before you say ANYTHING -- is quick to point out that if you get abusive she'll hang up. That personifies it and makes it worse because you know there's absolutely nothing you can do about her and all the rest of them but drip hatred. -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo  From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 12:08:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18559 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:08:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18456 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:07:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07768; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:07:56 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id OAA26597; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:07:24 -0600 Message-ID: <19971125140723.33028@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:07:24 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U References: <199711251853.NAA01005@luomat.peak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199711251853.NAA01005@luomat.peak.org>; from Timothy J Luoma on Nov 11, 1997 at 01:53:44PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Nov 11, 1997 at 01:53:44PM -0500, Timothy J Luoma wrote: > Be sure to voice your complaint to MCI, who owned the dialups which were > used to send this crap. > > spamcomplaints@MCI.NET I sent one complaint to ``abuse@mci.net'' for every copy I got, which is about 10 so far. Of the 4 relays I've seen so far, one has turned off relaying, one has closed their mailing list, and I haven't heard a response out of the other 2. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 12:20:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21099 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:20:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21083 for chat; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:20:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:20:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711252020.MAA21083@hub.freebsd.org> To: chat Subject: verify taht bulk_mailer Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk is working with the latest chagenes. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 13:39:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02500 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:39:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from toth.ferginc.com (toth.ferginc.com [205.139.23.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02492; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from branson@toth.ferginc.com) Received: (from branson@localhost) by toth.ferginc.com (You_Can/Keep_Guessing) id QAA19760; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:38:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971125163831.36554@toth.hq.ferg.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:38:31 -0500 From: Branson Matheson To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer Reply-To: Branson.Matheson@FergInc.com References: <199711252020.MAA21083@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199711252020.MAA21083@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 12:20:35PM -0800 Organization: Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 12:20:35PM -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > is working with the latest chagenes. and there are no cold water pipes nearby. - branson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Branson Matheson " If you are falling off of a mountain, Unix System Administrator You may as well try to fly." Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. - Delenn, Mimbari Ambassador ( $statements = ) !~ /Corporate Opinion/; From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 13:47:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03271 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po1.bbn.com (PO1.BBN.COM [192.1.50.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03231; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:46:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@bbn.com) Received: from bbn.com (DROCKWELL.BBN.COM [128.89.31.139]) by po1.bbn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA14172; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:45:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711252145.QAA14172@po1.bbn.com> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-reply-to: Message from "Jonathan M. Bresler" <199711252020.MAA21083@hub.freebsd.org> . X-face: &R'hN{mZu#r@8b_JU\bn"!fYpP{?5k4p/(|]?.2'6;>Dc9}~t*vY=/#-:"63ya.%)%o`Kv$ u&'Ff5k&n[}QC;j7YYsR5Hl]G"E:*9Zmw;dx[sw&9Tmx_PB/7B`RdFW;#@49hJU&kW+J"<[`9^?.dQ 3]L$zK,4'=tThX$wC!M\`e*@1y Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:46:40 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 25 Nov, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > is working with the latest chagenes. Yeah, apart from scrambling the letters in the subject... Dennis From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 14:07:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA06044 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06011 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:07:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA06755 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:07:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:07:22 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Oops...Comdex... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 15:26:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA16031 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:26:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16015; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:26:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07735; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:40:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd007685; Tue Nov 25 09:40:28 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA02240; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:24:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199711252324.QAA02240@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U To: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:24:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, spamcomplaints@MCI.NET In-Reply-To: <199711251853.NAA01005@luomat.peak.org> from "Timothy J Luoma" at Nov 25, 97 01:53:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > From searching several phone directories online, it appears that the person > who sent this spam did so on behalf of: > > Jack Luke > 39 Panda Av > Middleburg, FL 32068-4765 > (904) 282-0945 It is pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that this is a targetted trojan of the type that was used to flood ml.org. Also, you will note that the putative "relay host" is running a highly hacked version of sendmail (EHLO it). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 16:51:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA23595 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA23582 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA11455; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19241; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA28275; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:50:51 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199711260050.QAA28275@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:50:50 -0800 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: We will mail 4 U" (Nov 25, 11:24pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Terry Lambert , SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [Addresses trimmed] On Nov 25, 11:24pm, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U } It is pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that this is a targetted trojan of } the type that was used to flood ml.org. Yes, this smells like a revenge spam. } Also, you will note that the putative "relay host" is running a highly } hacked version of sendmail (EHLO it). Which relay host? I've seen at least three different ones in different copies of this message. The injection point seems to consistently be an Atlanta MCI dialin port, which makes it unlikely the sender resides in Florida. --- Truck From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 17:14:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25629 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:14:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25617; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:14:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711260114.RAA25617@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:14:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, spamcomplaints@MCI.NET In-Reply-To: <199711252324.QAA02240@usr05.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 25, 97 11:24:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > From searching several phone directories online, it appears that the person > > who sent this spam did so on behalf of: > > > > Jack Luke > > 39 Panda Av > > Middleburg, FL 32068-4765 > > (904) 282-0945 > > It is pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that this is a targetted trojan of > the type that was used to flood ml.org. > > Also, you will note that the putative "relay host" is running a highly > hacked version of sendmail (EHLO it). > "hacked version of sendmail" ????? EHLO is standard esmtp. this is old stuff already. see the rfc's (rfc1825 perhaps) two relay hosts were the ns servers for amgen.com. why are nameservers configured to relay mail? jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 18:10:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01513 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:10:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from subcellar.mwci.net (subcellar.mwci.net [205.254.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01503 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:10:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbutt@mwci.net) Received: from subcellar.mwci.net (subcellar.mwci.net [205.254.160.2]) by subcellar.mwci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA14854; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:09:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:09:15 -0600 (CST) From: "James D. Butt" To: Don Lewis cc: Terry Lambert , SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U In-Reply-To: <199711260050.QAA28275@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > } It is pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that this is a targetted trojan of > } the type that was used to flood ml.org. > > Yes, this smells like a revenge spam. As I said I received one to my personal account and one to our postmaster account and one to our noc account.. I am sure there were more. I am sure that the email address just got into their lists. Spammers have been hitting all of the open lists. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- James D. Butt 'J.D.' Network Engineer Voice 319-557-8463 Network Operations Center Fax 319-557-9771 MidWest Communications, Inc. Pager 319-557-6347 241 Main St. noc@mwci.net Dubuque, IA 52001 jbutt@mwci.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 18:13:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01932 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:13:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01910 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:13:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from francisco@natserv.com) Received: from localhost (slip-32-100-113-78.ny.us.ibm.net [32.100.113.78]) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA13859 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:13:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Francisco Reyes" Message-ID: To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 97 21:13:06 Reply-To: "\"Francisco Reyes\" @natserv.com X-Newsreader: PMINews 1.01a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In this week's Infoworld there is a review on Red Hat Linux. I wrote to the author (Eric Hammond) telling him about FreeBSD. He mentioned He recently did a review in which he included BSDI and also said there is another review in which BSDI will be included. I am familiar with FreeBSD Vs Linux discussions (and even a bit about Open BSD, Net BSD), but never really have seen much about BSDI. One of the things he wrote was: "I'm assuming that Internet Server is the commercial version of FreeBSD. Correct me if I'm wrong." By internet Server he is referring to BSDI. How different are these products (BSDI and FreeBSD)? I can prepare some little promo to send to him telling him about FreeBSD, but I want to answer his comment about BSDI vs FreeBSD. Thanks. Remove "" to send me email. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 18:28:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA03439 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:28:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03419 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:28:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from francisco@natserv.com) Received: from localhost (slip-32-100-113-78.ny.us.ibm.net [32.100.113.78]) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA15444 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:28:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711260228.VAA15444@federation.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 97 21:27:41 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: How about an advocacy list? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I plan to send some info to an Infoworld writer and while working on this I had a thought. Why don't we have a list about FreeBSD advocacy? We could discuss about making a press release for the next version, sending letters to writers/editors about FreeBSD when they write related stories (but no spamming) such as the recent Red Hat Linux story I responded to. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 18:55:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06378 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:55:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06369 for chat; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:54:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711260254.SAA06369@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: major push by spammers? To: chat Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:54:56 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk we have rejected 20 spam attempts in the last 16 hours. this is a record....could we have a major push underway? or is it just coincidence? jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 19:18:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08440 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:18:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08426 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:18:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02104; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:43:58 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711260313.NAA02104@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: francisco@federation.addy.com cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:13:06." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:43:58 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > In this week's Infoworld there is a review on Red Hat Linux. I wrote > to the author (Eric Hammond) telling him about FreeBSD. He mentioned > He recently did a review in which he included BSDI and also said > there is another review in which BSDI will be included. > > I am familiar with FreeBSD Vs Linux discussions (and even a bit about > Open BSD, Net BSD), but never really have seen much about BSDI. > > One of the things he wrote was: > "I'm assuming that Internet Server is the commercial version of > FreeBSD. > Correct me if I'm wrong." > By internet Server he is referring to BSDI. > > How different are these products (BSDI and FreeBSD)? In many regards, enormously. > I can prepare some little promo to send to him telling him about > FreeBSD, but I want to answer his comment about BSDI vs FreeBSD. FreeBSD and BSD/OS share common ancestry, however their development diverged several years ago. BSD/OS is a commercial product developed by BSDi, while FreeBSD is a free-software product developed by the FreeBSD Project Inc. At this point in time, it is not correct to associate BSD/OS and FreeBSD other than with reference to their history. FreeBSD continues the BSD tradition of public development, with substantial involvement from all segments of the userbase, whilst BSD/OS is developed only by BSDi. BSD/OS serves primarily as a profit vehicle for BSDi. In contrast, FreeBSD is developed by volunteers and organisations which see it as a viable platform for their products and applications. This communal development tends to lead to a more user-driven product. FreeBSD is the platform of choice for many high-performance and mission-critical applications. (eg. Yahoo, Oracle NC server, etc. See commercial gallery for more examples) The open development model makes knowledgable developers directly available to users, drastically reducing turnaround time for queries and fixes. Public availability of full source makes integrated development simpler and more cost-effective. Generous source licensing and usage terms make FreeBSD an excellent starting point for embedded systems development as well. ... blah ... mike From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 19:25:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09160 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:25:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09146; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:25:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA12771; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21715; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:25:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28621; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:25:10 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199711260325.TAA28621@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:25:10 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" "Re: We will mail 4 U" (Nov 25, 5:14pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , tlambert@usr01.primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Nov 25, 5:14pm, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: } Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U } } two relay hosts were the ns servers for amgen.com. } why are nameservers configured to relay mail? It appears they do double duty as firewall bastion hosts. Those two were filtering their incoming mail through smap from the TIS toolkit. ; <<>> DiG 2.0 <<>> amgen.com mx ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6 ;; flags: qr rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 4, Auth: 10, Addit: 11 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; amgen.com, type = MX, class = IN ;; ANSWERS: amgen.com. 85695 MX 0 ns2.amgen.com. amgen.com. 85695 MX 20 relay2.uu.net. amgen.com. 85695 MX 20 relay1.uu.net. amgen.com. 85695 MX 10 ns1.amgen.com. The other relays that I saw were: osmail.onesource.com and osmail2.onesource.com, both running sendmail 8.8.4 and 8.8.7 gate1.gateway.com running smap. --- Truck From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 19:41:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11041 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11013 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:41:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from francisco@natserv.com) Received: from localhost (slip-32-100-113-78.ny.us.ibm.net [32.100.113.78]) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23295 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:41:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711260341.WAA23295@federation.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 97 22:40:30 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Seeking NYC FreeBSD users for Usergroup or informal meetings. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am interested in finding other FreeBSD users in New York City for possibly creating a user's group or just having informal meetings/discussions. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 20:10:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA13588 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:10:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13559; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:10:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gpalmer@orion.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id XAA21633; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id XAA23642; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:10:12 -0500 (EST) To: Dennis Rockwell cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:46:40 EST." <199711252145.QAA14172@po1.bbn.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:10:12 -0500 Message-ID: <23621.880517412@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Dennis Rockwell wrote in message ID <199711252145.QAA14172@po1.bbn.com>: > On 25 Nov, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > > is working with the latest chagenes. > > Yeah, apart from scrambling the letters in the subject... And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting through my filters... Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 20:19:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14266 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:19:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14249 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:19:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA09990; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:47:06 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971126144705.64183@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:47:05 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: francisco@federation.addy.com, FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? References: <199711260313.NAA02104@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711260313.NAA02104@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 01:43:58PM +1030 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 01:43:58PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: >> In this week's Infoworld there is a review on Red Hat Linux. I wrote >> to the author (Eric Hammond) telling him about FreeBSD. He mentioned >> He recently did a review in which he included BSDI and also said >> there is another review in which BSDI will be included. >> >> I am familiar with FreeBSD Vs Linux discussions (and even a bit about >> Open BSD, Net BSD), but never really have seen much about BSDI. >> >> One of the things he wrote was: >> "I'm assuming that Internet Server is the commercial version of >> FreeBSD. >> Correct me if I'm wrong." >> By internet Server he is referring to BSDI. >> >> How different are these products (BSDI and FreeBSD)? > > In many regards, enormously. > >> I can prepare some little promo to send to him telling him about >> FreeBSD, but I want to answer his comment about BSDI vs FreeBSD. > > (much good stuff about the difference between free and commercial > omitted) Agreed, but that's not the point Francisco (or Eric) was making. What's the technical difference? This is probably flame bait, but I'd say "not much". Recall that as a normal user (not buyer), you're interested neither in the way the software is devloped and distributed, nor in implementation details. And BSD/OS is close enough in feel to FreeBSD that I've mistaken one for the other on my own network from time to time. Still, it's oversimplifying things to say that BSD/OS is a commercial version of FreeBSD. Those days are, indeed, past. IMO the days are also past when BSD/OS was obviously better than FreeBSD. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 20:43:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16277 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:43:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16253; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:42:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711260442.UAA16253@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:42:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: dennis@bbn.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <23621.880517412@orion.webspan.net> from "Gary Palmer" at Nov 25, 97 11:10:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer wrote: > > Dennis Rockwell wrote in message ID > <199711252145.QAA14172@po1.bbn.com>: > > On 25 Nov, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > > > > is working with the latest chagenes. > > > > Yeah, apart from scrambling the letters in the subject... > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > through my filters... fie! dont be case sensitive. i inadvertently chaged from "X-Loop: FreeBSD.org" to "X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG" ;) jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 20:44:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16478 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:44:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.globalserve.net (pluto.globalserve.net [209.90.144.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16409; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:44:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from philipp@pluto.globalserve.net) Received: from localhost (philipp@localhost) by pluto.globalserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA07074; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:43:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from philipp@pluto.globalserve.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:43:47 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Philipp To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U In-Reply-To: <199711260114.RAA25617@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is outrageous, would you please not post to all FreeBSD lists as I frankly don't care much for this spam. It takes one bad person to start spamming all lists but it's silly to continue the thread by replying to it by carbon-copying all lists again. Peter On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > From searching several phone directories online, it appears that the person > > > who sent this spam did so on behalf of: > > > > > > Jack Luke > > > 39 Panda Av > > > Middleburg, FL 32068-4765 > > > (904) 282-0945 > > > > It is pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that this is a targetted trojan of > > the type that was used to flood ml.org. > > > > Also, you will note that the putative "relay host" is running a highly > > hacked version of sendmail (EHLO it). > > > > "hacked version of sendmail" ????? > EHLO is standard esmtp. > this is old stuff already. > see the rfc's (rfc1825 perhaps) > > two relay hosts were the ns servers for amgen.com. > why are nameservers configured to relay mail? > jmb > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 20:56:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17629 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:56:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17532 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:55:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02560; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:20:55 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711260450.PAA02560@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , francisco@federation.addy.com, FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:47:05 +1030." <19971126144705.64183@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:20:55 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >> I can prepare some little promo to send to him telling him about > >> FreeBSD, but I want to answer his comment about BSDI vs FreeBSD. > > > > (much good stuff about the difference between free and commercial > > omitted) > > Agreed, but that's not the point Francisco (or Eric) was making. > What's the technical difference? I don't think that *is* the point. It's not "what is the technical difference", but "what is the difference from the user's perspective". The average user doesn't give a damn about technical differences, they want to know what it'll do for them. IMHO, that means stressing the very different relationship that a FreeBSD user has with the OS developers compared with that between a BSD/OS user and BSDi. mike From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 20:58:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17737 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:58:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17725 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:57:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA10812; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:27:32 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971126152732.21290@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:27:32 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: francisco@federation.addy.com, FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? References: <19971126144705.64183@lemis.com> <199711260450.PAA02560@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711260450.PAA02560@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 03:20:55PM +1030 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 03:20:55PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: >>>> I can prepare some little promo to send to him telling him about >>>> FreeBSD, but I want to answer his comment about BSDI vs FreeBSD. >>> >>> (much good stuff about the difference between free and commercial >>> omitted) >> >> Agreed, but that's not the point Francisco (or Eric) was making. >> What's the technical difference? > > I don't think that *is* the point. It's not "what is the technical > difference", but "what is the difference from the user's perspective". > > The average user doesn't give a damn about technical differences, they > want to know what it'll do for them. IMHO, that means stressing the > very different relationship that a FreeBSD user has with the OS > developers compared with that between a BSD/OS user and BSDi. We're getting off-topic here. Most users don't have a relationship with the developers, whether it's BSDI or FreeBSD. But maybe we should give Francisco the chance to decide what it is that Infoworld really want to know. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 20:59:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17852 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17838; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:59:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gpalmer@orion.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id XAA01208; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:59:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id XAA08362; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:59:28 -0500 (EST) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: "Jonathan M. Bresler": Re: verify taht bulk_mailer Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:59:28 -0500 Message-ID: <8359.880520368@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Err? Show me the X-Loop header in here. Anywhere. I *dare* you :-) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id XAA27992 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:42:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16253; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:42:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711260442.UAA16253@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:42:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: dennis@bbn.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <23621.880517412@orion.webspan.net> from "Gary Palmer" at Nov 25, 97 11:10:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text X-UIDL: 74b584fa506088deacbec7ad74428d6c Gary Palmer wrote: > > Dennis Rockwell wrote in message ID > <199711252145.QAA14172@po1.bbn.com>: > > On 25 Nov, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > > > > is working with the latest chagenes. > > > > Yeah, apart from scrambling the letters in the subject... > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > through my filters... fie! dont be case sensitive. i inadvertently chaged from "X-Loop: FreeBSD.org" to "X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG" ;) jmb ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 20:59:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17875 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:59:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cc-server9.massey.ac.nz (cc-server9.massey.ac.nz [130.123.128.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17867 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:59:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz) From: C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz Message-Id: <199711260459.UAA17867@hub.freebsd.org> Received: from tpc-pc1 by cc-server9 with SMTP(PP); Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:59:38 +1300 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: TV Production Centre, Massey University To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:59:38 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Heavily loaded mail servers - any stats? Reply-to: C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz In-reply-to: <199711260254.SAA06369@hub.freebsd.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've been involved in a discussion with some people locally regarding large mail volumes and the size of servers needed to cope with it. They believe that 700,000 pieces of email per month (their current traffic) is an enormous load and requires big, expensive name-brand servers to deal with. I'm trying to suggest that their traffic isn't all that impressive, that it only loads their server because of the wacko X.400 MTA they're running, and that a PC running FreeBSD would laugh at the effort. So I'm interested in some stats from some of the larger mail servers running FreeBSD, and particularly freebsd.org itself, in terms of system size, MTA and version, and the mail load being handled. Anyone got any data they can chuck in? -- C. -- Craig Harding Acting Director, Massey University Television Production Centre "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 21:01:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18002 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:01:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freelove.globalserve.net (freelove.globalserve.net [209.90.128.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17988; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:00:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pjp@globalserve.net) Received: from localhost (pjp@localhost) by freelove.globalserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA01019; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:03:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:03:45 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Philipp X-Sender: pjp@tap.system.ca To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-Reply-To: <199711260254.SAA06369@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > we have rejected 20 spam attempts in the last 16 hours. > this is a record....could we have a major push underway? > > or is it just coincidence? > > jmb Actually, I think so but I also _know_ ;) that in my vicinity something is being done against it. Trust me, I'm one of those people that will do anything to 1. try to prevent spamming from my site, 2. filter spammers. The more ISP's work together on these two issues the better. Unfortunately in my position I'm fairly new in my administrative position and it might take a week or two, to fully push the place to full spam prevention. Wish me luck, Peter --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a supporter of the anti-spam campaign. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 21:07:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18240 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:07:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18234; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711260507.VAA18234@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: "Jonathan M. Bresler": Re: verify taht bulk_mailer To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:07:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <8359.880520368@orion.webspan.net> from "Gary Palmer" at Nov 25, 97 11:59:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk now gary, there is a hreader hrre that i did not create "X-UIDL: 74b584fa506088deacbec7ad74428d6c" ;) did you removethe X-Loop header ;) hmm...better start pgp signing my mail after the headers go in ;))) jmb ps. if this got past your filter, does that mean that you are filtering me ;)) Gary Palmer wrote: > > > Err? Show me the X-Loop header in here. Anywhere. I *dare* you :-) > > Gary > -- > Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member > FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info > > ------- Forwarded Message > > Return-Path: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG > Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) > by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id XAA27992 > for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:42:54 -0500 (EST) > Received: (from jmb@localhost) > by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16253; > Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:42:51 -0800 (PST) > (envelope-from jmb) > From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" > Message-Id: <199711260442.UAA16253@hub.freebsd.org> > Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer > To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer) > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:42:50 -0800 (PST) > Cc: dennis@bbn.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org > In-Reply-To: <23621.880517412@orion.webspan.net> from "Gary Palmer" at Nov 25, 97 11:10:12 pm > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] > Content-Type: text > X-UIDL: 74b584fa506088deacbec7ad74428d6c > > Gary Palmer wrote: > > > > Dennis Rockwell wrote in message ID > > <199711252145.QAA14172@po1.bbn.com>: > > > On 25 Nov, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > > > > > > is working with the latest chagenes. > > > > > > Yeah, apart from scrambling the letters in the subject... > > > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > > through my filters... > > fie! dont be case sensitive. > i inadvertently chaged from "X-Loop: FreeBSD.org" > to "X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG" ;) > jmb > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 21:16:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18958 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:16:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.camb.opengroup.org (ren.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.3.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA18953 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:16:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k@yt.to) Received: (qmail 13397 invoked by uid 12573); 26 Nov 1997 00:14:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19971125191444.12056@yt.to> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:14:44 -0500 From: Louis Theran To: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? References: <199711260254.SAA06369@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199711260254.SAA06369@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 06:54:56PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 06:54:56PM -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > we have rejected 20 spam attempts in the last 16 hours. > this is a record....could we have a major push underway? > > or is it just coincidence? I would hardly be surprised about this. Any server that runs open lists will eventually be found by the spammers. At least you don't have problems (I don't think, at least) with freebsd.org being hard wired into mailbombing/spamware packages specially designed to hijack listserv/listproc sites. I set up qmail on a busy listproc site, and I found that I had to filter all submissions to the listproc server through a script to catch all the junk generated by things like Avalanche and Up Yours. I don't recall seeing any programs on the mailbomber's domain website that targeted majordomo, but I didn't look that hard at any of them. ^Louis -- Louis Theran a.k.a. User K -- Carjacker on the Information Superhighway "Off the record. On the QT. And very Hush-Hush." From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 21:33:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20071 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:33:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20065; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:33:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gpalmer@orion.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id AAA07224; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:33:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id AAA18379; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:33:11 -0500 (EST) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: "Jonathan M. Bresler": Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:07:05 PST." <199711260507.VAA18234@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:33:11 -0500 Message-ID: <18377.880522391@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote in message ID <199711260507.VAA18234@hub.freebsd.org>: > now gary, there is a hreader hrre that i did not create > "X-UIDL: 74b584fa506088deacbec7ad74428d6c" ;) > did you removethe X-Loop header ;) > > hmm...better start pgp signing my mail after the headers go in ;))) > jmb > > ps. if this got past your filter, does that mean that you are > filtering me ;)) I didn't remove it, it's not getting here. My procmailrc doesn't distinguish between lists. And yes, I read mail through POP with MH. So sue me :-) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 22:12:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22301 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:12:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22296; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:12:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA17703; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:11:48 -0800 (PST) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:54:56 PST." <199711260254.SAA06369@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:11:48 -0800 Message-ID: <17699.880524708@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > we have rejected 20 spam attempts in the last 16 hours. > this is a record....could we have a major push underway? 20? Hahahahaha! :-) Try turning on reverse DNS filtering and you'll find that this number goes WAAAY up. According to my stats just for time.cdrom.com, I've rejected 2203 spam attempts since 9am this morning. Yep, that's correct - approximately 2.8 spams rejected every minute. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 22:30:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23071 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23066 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:30:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA21666; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:23:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:23:36 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , francisco@federation.addy.com, FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <19971126144705.64183@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk There was also a rather insulting article in LanTimes about a month ago. The people did just not have a clue. It was an "introduction" about how one could stick a dirty little Unix box in the corner to grab mail and do "intranet" tasks in your NT shop. Most of it focused on Linux, and they repeatedly made the mistake of calling BSDi "BSD". The average person would be left with the impression that the only "free" unix was linux, and one had to pay BSDi for FBSD source code. Here's the URL: http://www.lantimes.com/97/97oct/710b061a.html I'll be sending a pleasant yet informative letter. Actually, I'm reading it again, and this quote from a UUNet employee describing async disc mounts made me chuckle: "UUNET also has 190 BSDI-based ftp (File Transfer Protocol) sites and 19 news-feeding sites running BSDI. A kernel modification has boosted BSDI's performance as a newsfeed server; the system supports a flag that turns off an automatic update feature that otherwise would kick in whenever data is written to disk. "This kernel modification saves disk I/O and increases the performance of our news feeds," says Lidl. Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com ---- "I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man Just a mortal with potential of a superman I'm living on" -DB On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 01:43:58PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > >> In this week's Infoworld there is a review on Red Hat Linux. I wrote > >> to the author (Eric Hammond) telling him about FreeBSD. He mentioned > >> He recently did a review in which he included BSDI and also said > >> there is another review in which BSDI will be included. > >> > >> I am familiar with FreeBSD Vs Linux discussions (and even a bit about > >> Open BSD, Net BSD), but never really have seen much about BSDI. > >> > >> One of the things he wrote was: > >> "I'm assuming that Internet Server is the commercial version of > >> FreeBSD. > >> Correct me if I'm wrong." > >> By internet Server he is referring to BSDI. > >> > >> How different are these products (BSDI and FreeBSD)? > > > > In many regards, enormously. > > > >> I can prepare some little promo to send to him telling him about > >> FreeBSD, but I want to answer his comment about BSDI vs FreeBSD. > > > > (much good stuff about the difference between free and commercial > > omitted) > > Agreed, but that's not the point Francisco (or Eric) was making. > What's the technical difference? > > This is probably flame bait, but I'd say "not much". Recall that as a > normal user (not buyer), you're interested neither in the way the > software is devloped and distributed, nor in implementation details. > And BSD/OS is close enough in feel to FreeBSD that I've mistaken one > for the other on my own network from time to time. > > Still, it's oversimplifying things to say that BSD/OS is a commercial > version of FreeBSD. Those days are, indeed, past. IMO the days are > also past when BSD/OS was obviously better than FreeBSD. > > Greg > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 22:38:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23480 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:38:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23469 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:38:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA14153; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:07:50 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971126170750.56606@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:07:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: spork Cc: Mike Smith , francisco@federation.addy.com, FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? References: <19971126144705.64183@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from spork on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 01:23:36AM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 01:23:36AM -0500, spork wrote: > On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 01:43:58PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: >>>> In this week's Infoworld there is a review on Red Hat Linux. I wrote >>>> to the author (Eric Hammond) telling him about FreeBSD. He mentioned >>>> He recently did a review in which he included BSDI and also said >>>> there is another review in which BSDI will be included. >>>> >>>> I am familiar with FreeBSD Vs Linux discussions (and even a bit about >>>> Open BSD, Net BSD), but never really have seen much about BSDI. >>>> >>>> One of the things he wrote was: >>>> "I'm assuming that Internet Server is the commercial version of >>>> FreeBSD. >>>> Correct me if I'm wrong." >>>> By internet Server he is referring to BSDI. >>>> >>>> How different are these products (BSDI and FreeBSD)? >>> >>> In many regards, enormously. >>> >>>> I can prepare some little promo to send to him telling him about >>>> FreeBSD, but I want to answer his comment about BSDI vs FreeBSD. >>> >>> (much good stuff about the difference between free and commercial >>> omitted) >> >> Agreed, but that's not the point Francisco (or Eric) was making. >> What's the technical difference? >> >> This is probably flame bait, but I'd say "not much". Recall that as a >> normal user (not buyer), you're interested neither in the way the >> software is devloped and distributed, nor in implementation details. >> And BSD/OS is close enough in feel to FreeBSD that I've mistaken one >> for the other on my own network from time to time. >> >> Still, it's oversimplifying things to say that BSD/OS is a commercial >> version of FreeBSD. Those days are, indeed, past. IMO the days are >> also past when BSD/OS was obviously better than FreeBSD. > > There was also a rather insulting article in LanTimes about a month ago. > The people did just not have a clue. It was an "introduction" about how > one could stick a dirty little Unix box in the corner to grab mail and do > "intranet" tasks in your NT shop. Most of it focused on Linux, and they > repeatedly made the mistake of calling BSDi "BSD". Never aassign to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. I don't think many of these people mean to belittle BSD variants, they just haven't done their homework. I seem to recall this Peggy King woman's name in that connection. BTW, why do so many people on this list write BSDi instead of BSDI? It's certainly not what they call themselves. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 22:39:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23543 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23538 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:39:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA22054; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:32:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:32:55 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heavily loaded mail servers - any stats? In-Reply-To: <199711260459.UAA17867@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I have some rough info. Our nameserver/auth/pop-server/mailserver does about 150,000 messages a month, and it's currently pretty happy. It's a Pentium 133 with 128M and one big drive. The only bottleneck I see now is the drive. I'm going to be striping two 2G Cudas for /var/mail RSN and adding a tape drive to the machine to simplify nightly backups of the mail spool. I have a feeling that will take me pretty far, as it's nowhere near swapping yet, and it's still running 2.1-stable... Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com ---- "I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man Just a mortal with potential of a superman I'm living on" -DB On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz wrote: > I've been involved in a discussion with some people locally regarding > large mail volumes and the size of servers needed to cope with it. > They believe that 700,000 pieces of email per month (their current > traffic) is an enormous load and requires big, expensive name-brand > servers to deal with. I'm trying to suggest that their traffic > isn't all that impressive, that it only loads their server because of > the wacko X.400 MTA they're running, and that a PC running FreeBSD > would laugh at the effort. > > So I'm interested in some stats from some of the larger mail servers > running FreeBSD, and particularly freebsd.org itself, in terms of > system size, MTA and version, and the mail load being handled. Anyone > got any data they can chuck in? > > -- C. > > -- > Craig Harding Acting Director, Massey University Television Production Centre > "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 22:43:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23789 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:43:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23785 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:42:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA22067; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:36:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:36:31 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <19971126170750.56606@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > BTW, why do so many people on this list write BSDi instead of BSDI? > It's certainly not what they call themselves. I think it's subliminal. The "i" is cowering. > Greg > Charles From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 22:53:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24280 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:53:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA24275 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:53:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (tc-if2-44.ida.net [208.141.171.101]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA07051 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:53:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:52:41 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-Reply-To: <17699.880524708@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > we have rejected 20 spam attempts in the last 16 hours. > > this is a record....could we have a major push underway? > > 20? Hahahahaha! :-) > > Try turning on reverse DNS filtering and you'll find that this number > goes WAAAY up. According to my stats just for time.cdrom.com, I've > rejected 2203 spam attempts since 9am this morning. Yep, that's > correct - approximately 2.8 spams rejected every minute. > > Jordan Could you divide that number by number of e-mail addresses to give a spams per username per day figure? If we can't do anything about spam we might as well quantify it. Think of it as science. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:02:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24761 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:02:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24749; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:02:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA15502; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:32:14 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971126173214.61195@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:32:14 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? References: <199711260254.SAA06369@hub.freebsd.org> <17699.880524708@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <17699.880524708@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 10:11:48PM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 10:11:48PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> we have rejected 20 spam attempts in the last 16 hours. >> this is a record....could we have a major push underway? > > 20? Hahahahaha! :-) > > Try turning on reverse DNS filtering and you'll find that this number > goes WAAAY up. According to my stats just for time.cdrom.com, I've > rejected 2203 spam attempts since 9am this morning. Yep, that's > correct - approximately 2.8 spams rejected every minute. Wow. You must have annoyed somebody :-) How are you recognizing the spammers? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:04:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24848 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:04:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24838; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:04:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gpalmer@orion.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id CAA20023; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id CAA14868; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:04:07 -0500 (EST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:11:48 PST." <17699.880524708@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:04:07 -0500 Message-ID: <14865.880527847@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote in message ID <17699.880524708@time.cdrom.com>: > Try turning on reverse DNS filtering and you'll find that this number > goes WAAAY up. According to my stats just for time.cdrom.com, I've > rejected 2203 spam attempts since 9am this morning. Yep, that's > correct - approximately 2.8 spams rejected every minute. Are you sending the temp fail return code? If so, then a lot of them will be repeat sends of the same spam. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:09:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25313 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25301; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:09:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA18158; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:09:24 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:32:14 +1030." <19971126173214.61195@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:09:24 -0800 Message-ID: <18154.880528164@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Try turning on reverse DNS filtering and you'll find that this number > > goes WAAAY up. According to my stats just for time.cdrom.com, I've > > rejected 2203 spam attempts since 9am this morning. Yep, that's > > correct - approximately 2.8 spams rejected every minute. > > Wow. You must have annoyed somebody :-) No, I'm just stupid enough to post to USENET using my real mailing address. :-) > How are you recognizing the spammers? 2 ways: The first, if reverse DNS lookup fails, accounts for about 90% of the rejects. When I first started doing this, I worried that perhaps I was rejecting some legit emails so for the first couple of weeks I'd do one day on, one day off. In 14 days worth of testing, I got one "legitimate" message (though it was unanswerable due to said misconfiguration, so I could have done without it :) and many many hundreds of spams on the days that I had reverse DNS checking disabled. Needless to say, I can't even imagine not having it on now. The second way, which accounts for that last 10%, is to reject according to a ban list which is maintained by the folks at gulf.net (to which we add our own local banlist). Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:11:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25487 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:11:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25479; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:10:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA18182; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:10:44 -0800 (PST) To: "Gary Palmer" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:04:07 EST." <14865.880527847@orion.webspan.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:10:44 -0800 Message-ID: <18179.880528244@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Are you sending the temp fail return code? If so, then a lot of them > will be repeat sends of the same spam. I'm using the standard checks in /usr/src/etc/mail/sendmail.cf.additions - it *looks* like a proper failure is generated on a reject, but I'm not enough of a sendmail god to know for sure. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:11:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25530 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:11:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25525; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:11:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA15842; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:41:32 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971126174132.22911@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:41:32 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? References: <19971126173214.61195@lemis.com> <18154.880528164@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <18154.880528164@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 11:09:24PM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 11:09:24PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>> Try turning on reverse DNS filtering and you'll find that this number >>> goes WAAAY up. According to my stats just for time.cdrom.com, I've >>> rejected 2203 spam attempts since 9am this morning. Yep, that's >>> correct - approximately 2.8 spams rejected every minute. >> >> Wow. You must have annoyed somebody :-) > > No, I'm just stupid enough to post to USENET using my real mailing > address. :-) Isn't that the same thing? >> How are you recognizing the spammers? > > 2 ways: The first, if reverse DNS lookup fails, accounts for about 90% > of the rejects. When I first started doing this, I worried that > perhaps I was rejecting some legit emails so for the first couple of > weeks I'd do one day on, one day off. In 14 days worth of testing, I > got one "legitimate" message (though it was unanswerable due to said > misconfiguration, so I could have done without it :) and many many > hundreds of spams on the days that I had reverse DNS checking > disabled. Needless to say, I can't even imagine not having it on now. > > The second way, which accounts for that last 10%, is to reject > according to a ban list which is maintained by the folks at gulf.net > (to which we add our own local banlist). Hmmm. If I ever get this book finished, I suppose I should take a look at this. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:15:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25686 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25675; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:15:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gpalmer@orion.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id CAA21293; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:15:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id CAA17091; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:15:01 -0500 (EST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:10:44 PST." <18179.880528244@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:15:01 -0500 Message-ID: <17085.880528501@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote in message ID <18179.880528244@time.cdrom.com>: > > Are you sending the temp fail return code? If so, then a lot of them > > will be repeat sends of the same spam. > > I'm using the standard checks in /usr/src/etc/mail/sendmail.cf.additions - it > *looks* like a proper failure is generated on a reject, but I'm not > enough of a sendmail god to know for sure. 451 is a temporary error code. It allows the mail to be retried later incase of DNS failures or net splits to cause a valid DNS entry to become unavailable. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:17:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25794 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:17:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25789; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA18244; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:16:52 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:41:32 +1030." <19971126174132.22911@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:16:51 -0800 Message-ID: <18241.880528611@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Hmmm. If I ever get this book finished, I suppose I should take a > look at this. Finish the book first - people are already back-ordering it. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:20:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA26016 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:20:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26004; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA18317; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:20:19 -0800 (PST) To: "Gary Palmer" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:15:01 EST." <17085.880528501@orion.webspan.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:20:19 -0800 Message-ID: <18314.880528819@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hmmm. What would be a better code if one simply wished to toss it away? And I wonder if running a caching named on mail.freebsd.org wouldn't perhaps be a good idea, if only to avoid the scenario of temporary DNS outtages. Would it even help? Jordan > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote in message ID > <18179.880528244@time.cdrom.com>: > > > Are you sending the temp fail return code? If so, then a lot of them > > > will be repeat sends of the same spam. > > > > I'm using the standard checks in /usr/src/etc/mail/sendmail.cf.additions - it > > *looks* like a proper failure is generated on a reject, but I'm not > > enough of a sendmail god to know for sure. > > 451 is a temporary error code. It allows the mail to be retried later > incase of DNS failures or net splits to cause a valid DNS entry to > become unavailable. > > Gary > -- > Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member > FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 25 23:48:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27890 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:48:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27886 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:48:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA18564; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:48:32 -0800 (PST) To: Charles Mott cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:52:41 MST." Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:48:31 -0800 Message-ID: <18560.880530511@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Could you divide that number by number of e-mail addresses to give a > spams per username per day figure? I'll be happy to furnish my maillogs to anyone who truly wishes to write the requisite awk/perl scripts in figuring all that out, how's that? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 02:25:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06443 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:25:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06433 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:25:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA17246; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:25:13 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:25:13 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Sean Kelly cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Japan FreeBSDers really cracking that RC5! In-Reply-To: <347B00A8.1770F31@fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Sean Kelly wrote: > I was just looking over the stats of the RC5-64 cracking effort > (http://rc5stats.distributed.net). FreeBSD users in Japan are kicking > butt! > > According to the "Top 100 Overall" list the team "Japan FreeBSD Users > Group" has been in the running for only six days and have already taken > 7th place. Just yesterday, the "individual" rc5@jp.freebsd.org held > first place beating rc5@linux.or.jp with over twice as many blocks > checked. > > Other teams in the top ten have been there for about a month or more. > But the Japan FreeBSD Users Group has a decent amount of blocks under > its belt (628,000) and in only six days time. It will still take an > monumental effort to unseat the first place team, the Apple > EvangeListas, who have done over four million blocks. They have as much blocks as the next three after them, and their key rate is as much as JFUG + the Amiga Camp just ahead of them in blocks... > (Those Apple users have an incredible rc5 client. Is there an > instruction on the PowerPC called "CRK-RC5" which does a key check in a > single cycle?) Hmmm... A PPC604e is about the same as a PPro on the same Mhz. The trick is, PPC604e-s go up to 350MHz. > Team FreeBSD is looking a bit green next to this. But hey, if they're > helping promote FreeBSD, more power to them! > > --Sean > The interesting part is under the link "Too much detail". Like stats for Solaris for MIPS, Alpha & PA RISC and OS/2 for MIPS & Alpha. Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 06:13:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19352 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:13:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmarso.dialup.access.net (lsmarso@lsmarso.dialup.access.net [166.84.254.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA19335 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lsmarso@lsmarso.dialup.access.net) Received: (from lsmarso@localhost) by lsmarso.dialup.access.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03891 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:13:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971126091156.45450@panix.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:11:56 -0500 From: "Larry S. Marso" To: Francisco Reyes Subject: Re: Seeking NYC FreeBSD users for Usergroup or informal meetings. References: <199711260341.WAA23295@federation.addy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199711260341.WAA23295@federation.addy.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 10:40:30PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 10:40:30PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I am interested in finding other FreeBSD users in New York City for > possibly creating a user's group or just having informal > meetings/discussions. > Larry S. Marso (Vice President, PaineWebber Incorporated -- Financial Institutions M&A) w: 713-1030 h: 721-7362 Would be happy to help and participate -- Larry S. Marso lsmarso@panix.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 06:17:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19607 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:17:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19598; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:17:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711261417.GAA19598@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: major push by spammers? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:17:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <17699.880524708@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 25, 97 10:11:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > we have rejected 20 spam attempts in the last 16 hours. > > this is a record....could we have a major push underway? > > 20? Hahahahaha! :-) > > Try turning on reverse DNS filtering and you'll find that this number > goes WAAAY up. According to my stats just for time.cdrom.com, I've > rejected 2203 spam attempts since 9am this morning. Yep, that's > correct - approximately 2.8 spams rejected every minute. boy they must like you jordan, we send about 3 mails a minute total.....hey! youre not rejecting mail from hub are you ???? ROFL jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:00:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22129 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:00:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22105; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:00:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711261500.HAA22105@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: major push by spammers? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:00:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <18179.880528244@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 25, 97 11:10:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Are you sending the temp fail return code? If so, then a lot of them > > will be repeat sends of the same spam. > > I'm using the standard checks in /usr/src/etc/mail/sendmail.cf.additions - it > *looks* like a proper failure is generated on a reject, but I'm not > enough of a sendmail god to know for sure. sendmail.cf.additions uses permanent error codes, not temp fail return codes. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:12:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA23116 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:12:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA23087; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711261512.HAA23087@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: major push by spammers? To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:12:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <17085.880528501@orion.webspan.net> from "Gary Palmer" at Nov 26, 97 02:15:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer wrote: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote in message ID > <18179.880528244@time.cdrom.com>: > > > Are you sending the temp fail return code? If so, then a lot of them > > > will be repeat sends of the same spam. > > > > I'm using the standard checks in /usr/src/etc/mail/sendmail.cf.additions - it > > *looks* like a proper failure is generated on a reject, but I'm not > > enough of a sendmail god to know for sure. > > 451 is a temporary error code. It allows the mail to be retried later > incase of DNS failures or net splits to cause a valid DNS entry to > become unavailable. yes, yes, you are right. on DNS we return temp fail codes from /usr/src/etc/mail/sendmail.cf.additions.....crimmie, i wrote and it dont remember what i wrote......guido, see what 4 kids will do to you....stop before its too late! ; jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:24:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA23812 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA23798; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:23:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: (from luomat@localhost) by luomat.peak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03242; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:23:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711261523.KAA03242@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) X-Image-URL: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/luomat@peak.org.tiff In-Reply-To: <18314.880528819@time.cdrom.com> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.1) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148.RR) From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Wed, 26 Nov 97 10:23:35 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: major push by spammers? cc: "Gary Palmer" , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org References: <18314.880528819@time.cdrom.com> X-Image-URL-Disclaimer: hey, it's off my student ID, gimme a break ;-) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Author: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Original-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:20:19 -0800 Message-ID: <18314.880528819@time.cdrom.com> > Hmmm. What would be a better code if one simply wished to toss it away? 451 is a temp error.... 551 is a permanent one > And I wonder if running a caching named on mail.freebsd.org wouldn't > perhaps be a good idea, if only to avoid the scenario of temporary DNS > outtages. Would it even help? I don't think so. If it is cached than it would not fail. If it was not cached and there was a temporary DNS outtage at your nameservers, it would bounce. Sending a 500-level permanant bounce is not really a good idea in general... You'd be surprised how often there are temp DNS timeouts.... too man damn people using the Internet these days ;-) However, that said, sending a 400-level sets you up for some bad configurations of other systems which will retry every 5 minutes for 5 days before turning a temp failure into a permanent one... Enough of those could be a real drain. TjL ps -- I have seen more spams in the last week than in the last 3 months. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:33:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA24583 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA24574; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:33:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA01770; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:33:10 -0800 (PST) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:17:21 PST." <199711261417.GAA19598@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:33:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1767.880558390@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > boy they must like you jordan, > we send about 3 mails a minute total.....hey! > youre not rejecting mail from hub are you ???? ROFL Har har. No. :) Just as a sample, here are some of today's rejects: Nov 26 07:26:33 time sendmail[1723]: HAA01723: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=, relay=whisker.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228], reject=451 ... Domain does not resolve Nov 26 07:26:34 time sendmail[1724]: HAA01724: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=, relay=whisker.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228], reject=451 ... Domain does not resolve Nov 26 07:26:34 time sendmail[1725]: HAA01725: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=, relay=whisker.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228], reject=451 ... Domain does not resolve Nov 26 07:26:35 time sendmail[1726]: HAA01726: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=, relay=whisker.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228], reject=451 ... Domain does not resolve Nov 26 07:26:40 time sendmail[1727]: HAA01727: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=, relay=whisker.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228], reject=451 ... Domain does not resolve All spam. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:38:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25085 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:38:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25068; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA10545; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA02642; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:38:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:38:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199711261538.IAA02642@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer), dennis@bbn.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-Reply-To: <199711260442.UAA16253@hub.freebsd.org> References: <23621.880517412@orion.webspan.net> <199711260442.UAA16253@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > > through my filters... > > fie! dont be case sensitive. > i inadvertently chaged from "X-Loop: FreeBSD.org" > to "X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG" ;) X-Loop? Can someone explain a bit more what that's about? Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:44:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25586 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:44:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25578 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA10592; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:44:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA02670; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:44:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:44:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199711261544.IAA02670@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heavily loaded mail servers - any stats? In-Reply-To: <199711260459.UAA17867@hub.freebsd.org> References: <199711260254.SAA06369@hub.freebsd.org> <199711260459.UAA17867@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I've been involved in a discussion with some people locally regarding > large mail volumes and the size of servers needed to cope with it. > They believe that 700,000 pieces of email per month (their current > traffic) is an enormous load and requires big, expensive name-brand > servers to deal with. Heck, that's *nothing*. Forget 'big heavy servers', if you're on a significant number of FreeBSD mailing lists you're getting close to 10K/month, and that's per/user. 700K/month is chicken feed, and I'm sure my 486/66 with FreeBSD could handle with w/out even breaking a sweat. Using a nice round 1 million email number a month gives you approximately 24/minute, which means that youre server is probably more I/O bound than CPU bound. Get a good fast disk on the box and have at it. > So I'm interested in some stats from some of the larger mail servers > running FreeBSD, and particularly freebsd.org itself, in terms of > system size, MTA and version, and the mail load being handled. Anyone > got any data they can chuck in? I don't have any real data, but I'm sure if you post something to isp you could probably get some pretty real numbers. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:47:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25828 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:47:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25807; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gpalmer@orion.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id KAA28415; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id KAA14001; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:47:22 -0500 (EST) To: Nate Williams cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , dennis@bbn.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:38:32 MST." <199711261538.IAA02642@mt.sri.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:47:21 -0500 Message-ID: <13999.880559241@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote in message ID <199711261538.IAA02642@mt.sri.com>: > > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > > > through my filters... > > > > fie! dont be case sensitive. > > i inadvertently chaged from "X-Loop: FreeBSD.org" > > to "X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG" ;) > > X-Loop? Can someone explain a bit more what that's about? X-Loop: was a header originally put in place to stop people that don't understand the majordomo syntax subscribing one mailing list to the other and getting mail loops (hence the name). Majordomo won't resend messages received with an X-Loop header in them. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:55:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA26323 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:55:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA26311; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA10656; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:55:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA02704; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:55:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:55:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199711261555.IAA02704@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Gary Palmer" Cc: Nate Williams , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , dennis@bbn.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-Reply-To: <13999.880559241@orion.webspan.net> References: <199711261538.IAA02642@mt.sri.com> <13999.880559241@orion.webspan.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > > > > through my filters... > > > > > > fie! dont be case sensitive. > > > i inadvertently chaged from "X-Loop: FreeBSD.org" > > > to "X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG" ;) > > > > X-Loop? Can someone explain a bit more what that's about? > > X-Loop: was a header originally put in place to stop people that don't > understand the majordomo syntax subscribing one mailing list to the > other and getting mail loops (hence the name). Majordomo won't resend > messages received with an X-Loop header in them. So, how are you using it in your filters? Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 07:57:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA26509 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:57:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA26492; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711261557.HAA26492@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:57:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, dennis@bbn.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711261555.IAA02704@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 26, 97 08:55:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote: > > > > > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > > > > > through my filters... > > > > > > > > fie! dont be case sensitive. > > > > i inadvertently chaged from "X-Loop: FreeBSD.org" > > > > to "X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG" ;) > > > > > > X-Loop? Can someone explain a bit more what that's about? > > > > X-Loop: was a header originally put in place to stop people that don't > > understand the majordomo syntax subscribing one mailing list to the > > other and getting mail loops (hence the name). Majordomo won't resend > > messages received with an X-Loop header in them. > > So, how are you using it in your filters? majordomo-1.92 is hacked to reject messages with this header. majordomo-1.94.4 has this as the default behavior jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 08:06:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA27068 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:06:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27038; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:06:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA10725; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:06:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA02764; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:06:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:06:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199711261606.JAA02764@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, dennis@bbn.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-Reply-To: <199711261557.HAA26492@hub.freebsd.org> References: <199711261555.IAA02704@mt.sri.com> <199711261557.HAA26492@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > > > > > > through my filters... .. [ X-loop ] > > So, how are you using it in your filters? > > majordomo-1.92 is hacked to reject messages with this header. > majordomo-1.94.4 has this as the default behavior I actually was assuming he was using it to block out spam or some-such at his site, not how it was used in majordomo. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 08:12:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA27481 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:12:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA27433; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:11:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711261611.IAA27433@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:11:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, dennis@bbn.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711261606.JAA02764@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 26, 97 09:06:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote: > > > > > > > > And losing the X-Loop: header. I was wondering how this was getting > > > > > > > through my filters... > .. > [ X-loop ] > > > So, how are you using it in your filters? > > > > majordomo-1.92 is hacked to reject messages with this header. > > majordomo-1.94.4 has this as the default behavior > > I actually was assuming he was using it to block out spam or some-such > at his site, not how it was used in majordomo. ahhh.,....no is not an anti-spam thing. its an anti-doh! thing. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 08:12:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA27530 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:12:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27525 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:12:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from don@partsnow.com) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id IAA17312; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:10:44 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from wildeweb(192.168.100.10) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017310; Wed, 26 Nov 97 08:10:22 -0800 Message-ID: <347C4A06.A3656BF3@partsnow.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:10:46 -0800 From: Don Wilde Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? References: <19971126144705.64183@lemis.com> <19971126170750.56606@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I think the best advocacy tool for FreeBSD (combining 2 threads) would be for those people who have time to read things other than this mailing list :) to post the URLs and print locations of pertinent articles so we can all be politely and informatively 'in your face' to the writers. They'll get hip really quick. -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo  From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 08:20:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28119 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28062 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:20:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gpalmer@orion.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id LAA04546; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:20:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id LAA23813; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:20:09 -0500 (EST) To: Nate Williams cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:55:36 MST." <199711261555.IAA02704@mt.sri.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:20:08 -0500 Message-ID: <23808.880561208@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org some fronter info Nate Williams wrote in message ID <199711261555.IAA02704@mt.sri.com>: > > X-Loop: was a header originally put in place to stop people that don't > > understand the majordomo syntax subscribing one mailing list to the > > other and getting mail loops (hence the name). Majordomo won't resend > > messages received with an X-Loop header in them. > > So, how are you using it in your filters? To seperate out the FreeBSD lists from my main `personal' inbox. The X-Loop header was perfect for the job. Note the past tense :( Chat is still falling through :( Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 08:40:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA29662 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:40:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.camb.opengroup.org (ren.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.3.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29658 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:40:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k@yt.to) Received: (qmail 15215 invoked by uid 12573); 26 Nov 1997 11:38:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19971126063844.25395@yt.to> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:38:44 -0500 From: Louis Theran To: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? References: <18314.880528819@time.cdrom.com> <199711261523.KAA03242@luomat.peak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199711261523.KAA03242@luomat.peak.org>; from Timothy J Luoma on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 10:23:35AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org some fronter info On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 10:23:35AM -0500, Timothy J Luoma wrote: > Author: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > Original-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:20:19 -0800 > Message-ID: <18314.880528819@time.cdrom.com> > > > Hmmm. What would be a better code if one simply wished to toss it away? > > 451 is a temp error.... 551 is a permanent one Most spamware packages don't usually implement the retry algorithm. There isn't time when you expect your throwaway dialup account to be nuked when the complaints start coming in. Open relays will do this, however, so I still would use a 5xx over a 4xx if a domain has failed whatever DNS test you are doing on it. > > And I wonder if running a caching named on mail.freebsd.org wouldn't > > perhaps be a good idea, if only to avoid the scenario of temporary DNS > > outtages. Would it even help? > > I don't think so. > > If it is cached than it would not fail. If it was not cached and there was > a temporary DNS outtage at your nameservers, it would bounce. > > Sending a 500-level permanant bounce is not really a good idea in general... > You'd be surprised how often there are temp DNS timeouts.... too man damn > people using the Internet these days ;-) Shouldn't you be able to tell the difference between a soft DNS failure and a hard one? It seems like you should be able to do different things depending on whether you got back a definitive answer or you just couldn't reach the nameserver or had it time out on you. ^Louis -- Louis Theran a.k.a. User K -- Carjacker on the Information Superhighway "Off the record. On the QT. And very Hush-Hush." From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 08:45:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00102 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29962 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:44:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA10955; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:44:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:44:32 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heavily loaded mail servers - any stats? In-Reply-To: <199711260459.UAA17867@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org some fronter info On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz wrote: > I've been involved in a discussion with some people locally regarding > large mail volumes and the size of servers needed to cope with it. > They believe that 700,000 pieces of email per month (their current > traffic) is an enormous load and requires big, Enormous? Ha! The (expensive name-brand) mail servers around here do about one million messages a day. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 08:58:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00967 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:58:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA00955; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:58:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (Dpo2wEw0qknGCaeOmslx4Jn1g78VeGNo@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07418; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:58:31 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (oPZHaPftvfHliGk8AZXZfOxRStpN9n0s@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00331; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:58:29 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199711261658.SAA00331@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Greg Lehey , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:58:28 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > How are you recognizing the spammers? > > 2 ways: The first, if reverse DNS lookup fails, accounts for about 90% > of the rejects. When I first started doing this, I worried that > perhaps I was rejecting some legit emails so for the first couple of > weeks I'd do one day on, one day off. In 14 days worth of testing, I > got one "legitimate" message (though it was unanswerable due to said > misconfiguration, so I could have done without it :) and many many > hundreds of spams on the days that I had reverse DNS checking > disabled. Needless to say, I can't even imagine not having it on now. > > The second way, which accounts for that last 10%, is to reject > according to a ban list which is maintained by the folks at gulf.net > (to which we add our own local banlist). By far the mest method is Paul Vixies RBL (Realtime Blackhole List). See http://maps.vix.com/rbl/ - There are some sendmail rules that work really well. The cool thing is that DNS outages are failsafe. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 09:07:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01629 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:07:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01625 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:07:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19999; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:09:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711261709.JAA19999@implode.root.com> To: Nate Williams cc: C.R.Harding@massey.ac.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heavily loaded mail servers - any stats? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:44:17 MST." <199711261544.IAA02670@mt.sri.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:09:56 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> I've been involved in a discussion with some people locally regarding >> large mail volumes and the size of servers needed to cope with it. >> They believe that 700,000 pieces of email per month (their current >> traffic) is an enormous load and requires big, expensive name-brand >> servers to deal with. > >Heck, that's *nothing*. Forget 'big heavy servers', if you're on a >significant number of FreeBSD mailing lists you're getting close to >10K/month, and that's per/user. 700K/month is chicken feed, and I'm >sure my 486/66 with FreeBSD could handle with w/out even breaking a >sweat. Using a nice round 1 million email number a month gives you >approximately 24/minute, which means that youre server is probably more >I/O bound than CPU bound. Get a good fast disk on the box and have at >it. Funny, actually. hub.freebsd.org sends out 1.5 *million* messages per *week* - about 6 million per month...so .7 million/month is a tiny amount of email, really. :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 09:08:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01719 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:08:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01680; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:07:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711261707.JAA01680@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: major push by spammers? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:07:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, grog@lemis.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711261658.SAA00331@greenpeace.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Nov 26, 97 06:58:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Murray wrote: > > By far the mest method is Paul Vixies RBL (Realtime Blackhole List). See > http://maps.vix.com/rbl/ - There are some sendmail rules that work > really well. The cool thing is that DNS outages are failsafe. well......i have installed this on hub.freebsd.org, rou mailing list mail server, and have yet to see it block single message. now it is the last check before allowing the mail thru, so it seems that we are catching everything in RBL before we query RBL. Scheck_mail # called with envelope sender (everything after ":") in # "Mail From: xxx", of SMTP conversation # may or may not have "<" ">" # first check: DNS resolvable? R$* $: $>3 $1 R $* < @ $+ . > $: $2 R $* < @ $+ > $: $2 R $* < @ $+ > $#error $: "451 Domain does not resolve" # resolved. second check: one of the know spam sources? R$+.$+.$+ $2.$3 R$* $: $(spamsites $1 $: OK $) ROK $@ OK R$+.REJECT $#error $: 521 $1 # not a spam source we know about. check ip address with RBL R$* $: $(dequote "" $&{client_addr} $) R$-.$-.$-.$- $(host $4.$3.$2.$1.rbl.maps.vix.com $:OK $) ROK $@ OK R$+ $#error $: "550 Mail refused, see http://maps.vix.com/rbl" jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 09:27:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA03021 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03011; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:27:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (FpdJUhkyRf3mBttc8HcAmfI5vjsmo3cm@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07503; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:27:29 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (a7T8x0IYZVEad5k4I2Bj7aiyrz7a+7nz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00844; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:27:27 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199711261727.TAA00844@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), jkh@time.cdrom.com, grog@lemis.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:27:22 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > Mark Murray wrote: > > > > By far the mest method is Paul Vixies RBL (Realtime Blackhole List). See > > http://maps.vix.com/rbl/ - There are some sendmail rules that work > > really well. The cool thing is that DNS outages are failsafe. > > well......i have installed this on hub.freebsd.org, rou > mailing list mail server, and have yet to see it block > single message. now it is the last check before allowing > the mail thru, so it seems that we are catching everything > in RBL before we query RBL. The stuff in FreeBSD's sendmail rules workds well, no doubt about that, but it is not failsafe. If your DNS is a bit slow, you can lose mail. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 09:35:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA03719 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:35:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA03498; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711261733.JAA03498@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: major push by spammers? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:33:36 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, mark@grondar.za, jkh@time.cdrom.com, grog@lemis.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711261727.TAA00844@greenpeace.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Nov 26, 97 07:27:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Murray wrote: > > "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > Mark Murray wrote: > > > > > > By far the mest method is Paul Vixies RBL (Realtime Blackhole List). See > > > http://maps.vix.com/rbl/ - There are some sendmail rules that work > > > really well. The cool thing is that DNS outages are failsafe. > > > > well......i have installed this on hub.freebsd.org, rou > > mailing list mail server, and have yet to see it block > > single message. now it is the last check before allowing > > the mail thru, so it seems that we are catching everything > > in RBL before we query RBL. > > The stuff in FreeBSD's sendmail rules workds well, no doubt about that, > but it is not failsafe. If your DNS is a bit slow, you can lose mail. hmm....not sure that i agree with you. if w are slow to resolve, the error code is 451, a temp error, meaning try again later. the spammers databases dont use DNS. and RBL is failsafe.....so can you explain it to me? i dont understand. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 09:47:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04545 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:47:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dumbwinter.logic.it (m15.logic.it [195.120.151.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA04508 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:46:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from molter@logic.it) Received: (qmail 1720 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Nov 1997 17:46:14 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:46:13 +0100 (MET) From: Marco Molteni To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Quote of the day (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Marco Molteni Computer Science student at the Universita' degli studi di Milano, Italy. "Whuffo you jump out of them airplanes?" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 03:50:02 -0700 From: Quote of the day To: Quote of the day mailing list Subject: Quote of the day "Microsoft seems to have gotten a lot of mileage out of the C2 rating for NT with no network connection. I wonder if a B3 rating for Linux with no power cord might be of value." - Seen on the kernel mailing list [note for those lucky enough to not work with computers: the security rating B3 indicates a more secure system than C2. Making a computer secure by not connecting it to a network (a la Microsoft) is pretty simple, if pointless. - ed.] Submitted by: Keith Bostic Jan. 31, 1997 -------------------------------------------------------------- Send quotation submissions to qotd@ensu.ucalgary.ca Send list changes or requests to qotd-request@ensu.ucalgary.ca From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 10:01:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05529 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:01:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05507; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:00:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (Gm7WCtbcGqLLgClaRyQ7B6yaXtjUf7i3@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA07578; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:00:39 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (gRjP/VdW/cOIRB9ofhmGwkx5aQCZ3nQt@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01100; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:00:37 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199711261800.UAA01100@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, grog@lemis.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:00:36 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > The stuff in FreeBSD's sendmail rules workds well, no doubt about that, > > but it is not failsafe. If your DNS is a bit slow, you can lose mail. > > hmm....not sure that i agree with you. > if w are slow to resolve, the error code is 451, a temp error, > meaning try again later. the spammers databases dont use DNS. > and RBL is failsafe.....so can you explain it to me? > > i dont understand. I'm looking at the rules again, and I'm confused. I have seen legitimate mail from freebsd/hub.freebsd.org being bounced with a 500 code when DNS was ropey. I cannot figure out this happened from the rules I have. I'll go with mea culpa unless proven otherwise :-). I meant: The ruleset that I have (committed by Peter?) looks up the domain of incoming mail. if it does not check, the mail is rejected. If the DNS does not answer in time, the mail is bounced for the same reason. Vixies RBL works in reverse; the spammer's IP is checked on connection. If the RBL resolves the IP (PTR-style) to 127.0.0.2 then the mail is rejected. If DNS fails, the mail is accepted by default. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 10:04:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05797 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:04:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05780; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711261804.KAA05780@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: major push by spammers? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:04:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, grog@lemis.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711261800.UAA01100@greenpeace.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Nov 26, 97 08:00:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Murray wrote: > > "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > > The stuff in FreeBSD's sendmail rules workds well, no doubt about that, > > > but it is not failsafe. If your DNS is a bit slow, you can lose mail. > > > > hmm....not sure that i agree with you. > > if w are slow to resolve, the error code is 451, a temp error, > > meaning try again later. the spammers databases dont use DNS. > > and RBL is failsafe.....so can you explain it to me? > > > > i dont understand. > > I'm looking at the rules again, and I'm confused. I have seen > legitimate mail from freebsd/hub.freebsd.org being bounced with a 500 > code when DNS was ropey. I cannot figure out this happened from the > rules I have. I'll go with mea culpa unless proven otherwise :-). please send me the log entry if you have it. hub.freebsd.org should not be rejecting mail due to dns with 500 series error codes, but rhater should be using a 451 error code > > I meant: > > The ruleset that I have (committed by Peter?) looks up the domain of > incoming mail. if it does not check, the mail is rejected. If the DNS > does not answer in time, the mail is bounced for the same reason. its not bounced, its tempoararily not-accepted ;) meaning the server should try to deliver again later. i should know i wrote those rules, after looking at what others were doing. > > Vixies RBL works in reverse; the spammer's IP is checked on connection. > If the RBL resolves the IP (PTR-style) to 127.0.0.2 then the mail is > rejected. If DNS fails, the mail is accepted by default. right.....so default you eat spam jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 10:22:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06761 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:22:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06749 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:22:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id TAA27646 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:22:26 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA17580; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:58:50 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971126185850.55876@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:58:50 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Help me reply to Infoworld correspondent: what is diff between BSDI and FreeBSD? Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199711260313.NAA02104@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199711260313.NAA02104@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 01:43:58PM +1030 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Mike Smith wrote: > FreeBSD and BSD/OS share common ancestry, however their development > diverged several years ago. BSD/OS is a commercial product developed > by BSDi, while FreeBSD is a free-software product developed by the > FreeBSD Project Inc. ``...and its contributors.'' ;-) (I think ``FreeBSD Project Inc.'' is just Jordan and David only.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 12:26:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16469 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:26:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16463 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:26:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id VAA21396; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:15:28 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA01060; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:42:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19971126204207.18278@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:42:07 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: daemon stories ( german customs ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, finally I got 2.2.5 promotion CD's this morning.... I was missing one document, because it were two packages and feared, I have to go to town once again ... but the customs officer was so nice to give me a tip, how to get a copy of the needed document directly from the "snail mail" office only some hundereds meters away ... Well so I managed it to get everything in one day and was so thankful that I offered the customs officer one FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD-Rom after he told me, that his son in the age of 16 has a computer with windows 95. But he refused to get the CD-Rom ... Well I tried to persuade him, that I didn't want to make a deal with him, I only wanted to give it to him, because of the nice service ... Well, then he told me, it's because of the demon symbol .... He is "witnes of Jehova" ;-))) So he can't tale my offer. Well I tried to explan to him, that this is only a masquot of the developemen team and was only chosen because of daemon programs so a demon is the masqot. "Yes, he told me ... these demons work in the background and try to influence us to something bad ..." Umpf ;-)) I wished him a nice day, said to him, yes I also belive in something like "good" and went away ... Someone other with such "demon stories" ?! ;-) Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 12:34:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16947 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:34:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16942; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:34:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA16061; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:34:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd018664; Tue Nov 25 19:15:13 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA13247; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:15:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199711260215.TAA13247@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:15:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199711260114.RAA25617@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Nov 25, 97 05:14:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > It is pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that this is a targetted trojan of > > the type that was used to flood ml.org. ] Received: from ccimail.mediaone.com (ccimail.mediaone.com [169.152.79.3]) ] by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28272 ] for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:12:23 -0800 (PST) ] (envelope-from qUSTP4Aie@fai1rmance.net) ] From: qUSTP4Aie@fai1rmance.net ] Received: from 100uVF6M2 (usr2-dialup49.mix2.Atlanta.mci.net [166.55.51.113]) ] by ccimail.mediaone.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09471; ] Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:17:40 -0500 (EST) ] DATE: 24 Nov 10 11:22:33 AM HELO 100uVF6M2 MAIL FROM: RCPT TO: DATA 354 ... DATE: 24 Nov 10 11:22:33 AM ... . Oh look. No "X-Authentication-Warning:".... > "hacked version of sendmail" ????? Sendmail 2.0? What the heck is that? > EHLO is standard esmtp. > this is old stuff already. > see the rfc's (rfc1825 perhaps) You mean RFC1869 (http://www.imc.org/rfc1869)... The case for a "referral attack": --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ] LET US DO YOUR BULK MAILINGS!!! ] ] ..$250 PER MILLION ] ] THE WAY OF THE FUTURE FOR SUCCESS IN YOUR BUSINESS! ] ] Our company will do bulk emailing for your product/service. ] ] Addresses are extracted daily by four of our computers, ] which run 24 hours a day 7 days a week, scanning the net ] for new addresses. They are fresh! Over 36 million ] addresses on file. Implication: we are a startup spammer, and your address is on our list that we will be selling if you got this SPAM. Prepare for more SPAM if you do nothing... ] There are no lower prices on the net. Your mailing ] can be done in a matter of hours. We have 4 computers ] extracting addresses 24/7. We don't plan on going away quietly; you'd better react to this... (mental picture of "Simpson's Christmas Special...", where they had to spend the Christmas money getting Bart's tattoo removed, and Lisa is poking him in the bandage repeatedly ...ouch! quit it! ... ouch! quit it!...). ] For the fastest service, cheapest prices and cleanest ] mailings call our processing and new accounts office We really mean to do our damndest to SPAM you... ] at 904-282-0945, Here, have the residential number of the victim... ] Monday - Friday 9 - 5 EST. Yeah, you'll really limit yourself to these hours... ] If the line is busy, please keep trying, Harrass the victim constantly, please... ] as bulk mailing is growing fast. We do want to work with you ] to advertise your product. After all, he deserves it... ] $250 per million expires December 1, 1997. Price increases ] to $350 per million, $250 per 500,000. All orders received ] before December 1 will not reflect the increase. Even with ] the increase, we will still be the best prices on the net. And he intends to solicit bulk mailing well into the future; he's not going to go away. After all, it'd be self defense, right? ] To have your name removed, call our processing office. And if you won't call him to harrass him on general principles, at least call the victim to harrass him over you being on this list... ] Any negative responses will be dealt with accordingly. See, he's thumbing his nose at you... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Almost as nice a piece of social engineering as the ml.org attack and the Commercial Security Bank Russian Hacker Story... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 13:21:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA20550 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:21:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20527; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:21:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (sgb36hgkS0VbbqAZs4mUSC9Xe5/O5ppa@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07948; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:21:12 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (iIzQVvtxWwdgZqvmP2EZ6zpQnPF3dSOI@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12251; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:21:07 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199711262121.XAA12251@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, grog@lemis.com, chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:21:06 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > please send me the log entry if you have it. > hub.freebsd.org should not be rejecting mail due to dns > with 500 series error codes, but rhater should be using a 451 > error code Sorry - no can do :-(. I have been using RBL for too long. > its not bounced, its tempoararily not-accepted ;) > meaning the server should try to deliver again later. > i should know i wrote those rules, after looking at > what others were doing. That is what I thought I read. When I brought in RBL, I must have done something silly. I'll firm stick with mea culpa, I think. > > Vixies RBL works in reverse; the spammer's IP is checked on connection. > > If the RBL resolves the IP (PTR-style) to 127.0.0.2 then the mail is > > rejected. If DNS fails, the mail is accepted by default. > > right.....so default you eat spam I'm sure Vixie's rules could me massaged to look more like yours... M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 18:14:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA19423 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:14:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freelove.globalserve.net (freelove.globalserve.net [209.90.128.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA19363 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pjp@globalserve.net) Received: from localhost (pjp@localhost) by freelove.globalserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03431; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:15:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:15:59 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Philipp X-Sender: pjp@tap.system.ca To: Andreas Klemm cc: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-Reply-To: <19971126204207.18278@klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Andreas Klemm wrote: > He is "witnes of Jehova" ;-))) So he can't tale my offer. > > Well I tried to explan to him, that this is only a masquot of > the developemen team and was only chosen because of daemon > programs so a demon is the masqot. > > "Yes, he told me ... these demons work in the background and try > to influence us to something bad ..." > > Umpf ;-)) I wished him a nice day, said to him, yes I also belive > in something like "good" and went away ... > > Someone other with such "demon stories" ?! ;-) A few years back, when just starting to live out of my parents house, the jehovia's liked coming by my house and talking to my roomate. He liked talking to them and telling him his theories about god and such. One day they gave him an article about the number "666" and computers because they heard that I am on the computer all day. After reading it, I was balling of laughter. basically it was saying htat everything that has a stamp on it is devilish and that computers all deal with numbers and identification stamps and so on so they are the devils work. They were warning of the end of the world when everyone was just assigned a number and it's all the devils work...hence computers are bad. :) hehe Peter --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a supporter of the anti-spam campaign. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 18:17:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA20019 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:17:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA19994 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA19095; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:47:00 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971127124700.10853@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:47:00 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Peter Philipp Cc: Andreas Klemm , de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <19971126204207.18278@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Peter Philipp on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 09:15:59PM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 09:15:59PM -0500, Peter Philipp wrote: > On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Andreas Klemm wrote: > >> He is "witnes of Jehova" ;-))) So he can't tale my offer. >> >> Well I tried to explan to him, that this is only a masquot of >> the developemen team and was only chosen because of daemon >> programs so a demon is the masqot. >> >> "Yes, he told me ... these demons work in the background and try >> to influence us to something bad ..." >> >> Umpf ;-)) I wished him a nice day, said to him, yes I also belive >> in something like "good" and went away ... >> >> Someone other with such "demon stories" ?! ;-) > > A few years back, when just starting to live out of my parents house, the > jehovia's liked coming by my house and talking to my roomate. He liked > talking to them and telling him his theories about god and such. > > One day they gave him an article about the number "666" and computers > because they heard that I am on the computer all day. After reading it, I > was balling of laughter. basically it was saying htat everything that has > a stamp on it is devilish and that computers all deal with numbers and > identification stamps and so on so they are the devils work. They were > warning of the end of the world when everyone was just assigned a number > and it's all the devils work...hence computers are bad. :) Hmmm. I don't think I've stopped them coming past here yet, though last time I pointed out that my trust in them was somewhat shaken when--as they said in 1967--the world didn't come to an end in 1975. If they show their faces again, I suppose I should try to sell them a copy of "The Complete FreeBSD". Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 18:40:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23910 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:40:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23864 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:40:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05689; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:39:45 -0800 (PST) To: Mark Mayo cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Japan FreeBSD RC5!! Wow! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:56:49 EST." <19971126135649.31538@vmunix.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:39:45 -0800 Message-ID: <5685.880598385@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Wow, I just peeded at the latest RC564 stats, and the Japan > FreeBSD Users Group is kicking ass!! As of right now, they're the > #1 team at their current rate. #7 overall, but it looks like within > 1 or 2 days they'll be at #5 or so. Very impressive. I knew FreeBSD > was a pretty hot ticket in Japan, but I had no idea it was this > hot!! Speaking of which, anyone notice "Team CheataLista" in 8th place, suddenly coming out of nowhere with a hallucinogenic number of keys/sec? "I wonder..." :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 18:41:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24249 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:41:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24065; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:40:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA23574; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:40:07 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA07910; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:40:06 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:40:06 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199711270240.DAA07910@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: dg@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-reply-to: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:20:19 -0800 Subject: FreeBSD.ORG name servers (was: Re: major push by spammers?) References: <17085.880528501@orion.webspan.net> <18314.880528819@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Hmmm. What would be a better code if one simply wished to toss it away? > > And I wonder if running a caching named on mail.freebsd.org wouldn't > perhaps be a good idea, if only to avoid the scenario of temporary DNS > outtages. Would it even help? Talking of FreeBSD.ORG nameservers - all three of them lie on the wrong side of MAE-east as seen from me :-( This will e.g. sometimes block me from reaching cvsup.no.freebsd.org , even though I get to the actual IP address in approx 20ms. Is there any particular reason to not run a secondary in some other location(s), more netwise dispersed? I can run a secondary here if it is of interest - it take me about 3 minutes to set one up. (About 100 to 150 ms from the major parts of the US and Europe. Approx 3 hours line downtime during the last year). Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 18:49:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25828 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:49:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25818 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:49:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05849; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:49:16 -0800 (PST) To: Andreas Klemm cc: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:42:07 +0100." <19971126204207.18278@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:49:16 -0800 Message-ID: <5845.880598956@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > But he refused to get the CD-Rom ... Well I tried to persuade him, > that I didn't want to make a deal with him, I only wanted to give > it to him, because of the nice service ... > > Well, then he told me, it's because of the demon symbol .... > He is "witnes of Jehova" ;-))) So he can't tale my offer. What did you expect from a Beamter anyway? Rational thought? C'mon - if he was capable of thinking, he wouldn't be a beamter at all, now would he? :-) :-) I think people shouldn't be too put out by these occasional incidents. There are some good ones about texas rednecks and "we just wanted to know what the lord of darkness was doing on your chest, Maam?" which involve our little mascot and go back several decades. If it proves anything at all, it's that there are still religious elements in various western societies who'd probably be a lot happier living in someplace like Iran and should probably move there at the first opportunity. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 19:08:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27914 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27872 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.1/nospam) with UUCP id EAA29217 for chat@hub.freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 04:07:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id BAA00464; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:01:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971127010155.31377@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:01:56 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer References: <199711261555.IAA02704@mt.sri.com> <23808.880561208@orion.webspan.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <23808.880561208@orion.webspan.net>; from Gary Palmer on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 11:20:08AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3845 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Gary Palmer: > To seperate out the FreeBSD lists from my main `personal' inbox. The > X-Loop header was perfect for the job. Note the past tense :( Chat is > still falling through :( With Majordomo-hosted lists, you can also use Sender:, it contains owner-@hub.freebsd.org (or freebsd.org only). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #18: Tue Nov 25 22:32:12 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 19:08:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27976 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27967 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA06062; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:07:56 -0800 (PST) To: Peter Philipp cc: Andreas Klemm , de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:15:59 EST." Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:07:56 -0800 Message-ID: <6059.880600076@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > A few years back, when just starting to live out of my parents house, the > jehovia's liked coming by my house and talking to my roomate. He liked > talking to them and telling him his theories about god and such. By the way, do you know what you get when you cross a Jehova's witness with an Atheist? Someone who knocks on your door for no reason! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 19:17:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA29418 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29386 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:17:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25463; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:20:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711270320.TAA25463@implode.root.com> To: Eivind Eklund cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD.ORG name servers (was: Re: major push by spammers?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:40:06 +0100." <199711270240.DAA07910@bitbox.follo.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:20:32 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> >> Hmmm. What would be a better code if one simply wished to toss it away? >> >> And I wonder if running a caching named on mail.freebsd.org wouldn't >> perhaps be a good idea, if only to avoid the scenario of temporary DNS >> outtages. Would it even help? > >Talking of FreeBSD.ORG nameservers - all three of them lie on the >wrong side of MAE-east as seen from me :-( This will e.g. sometimes >block me from reaching cvsup.no.freebsd.org , even though I >get to the actual IP address in approx 20ms. > >Is there any particular reason to not run a secondary in some other >location(s), more netwise dispersed? I can run a secondary here if it >is of interest - it take me about 3 minutes to set one up. (About 100 >to 150 ms from the major parts of the US and Europe. Approx 3 hours >line downtime during the last year). The main problem is finding someone dedicated enough to stick with it for the next couple of years. In the past, every time I've set up an out of USA secondary, it lasted for less than 6 months before it went away. I really hate dealing with the InterNIC and prefer to make as few changes to this as possible. ns.gnome.co.uk is a secondary that is in the freebsd.org zone file, but hasn't yet been made a listed secondary with the root nameservers...I plan to change that at some point. freebsd-chat is the wrong forum to be discussing this. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 19:34:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02858 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:34:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02785 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:33:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06233; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:30:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:30:53 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Andreas Klemm , de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-Reply-To: <5845.880598956@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > But he refused to get the CD-Rom ... Well I tried to persuade him, > > that I didn't want to make a deal with him, I only wanted to give > > it to him, because of the nice service ... > > > > Well, then he told me, it's because of the demon symbol .... > > He is "witnes of Jehova" ;-))) So he can't tale my offer. > > What did you expect from a Beamter anyway? Rational thought? C'mon - > if he was capable of thinking, he wouldn't be a beamter at all, now > would he? :-) :-) > > I think people shouldn't be too put out by these occasional incidents. Yes. I used to work for a really sharp programmer (I won't give his name in this possibly unfriendly context) who was a Jehovah's Witness, I've been at his house and met his family, and seen some others, all fine people. You can't judge every person who's a Jehovah's Witness by a handful of morons. It's just not so. > There are some good ones about texas rednecks and "we just wanted to > know what the lord of darkness was doing on your chest, Maam?" which > involve our little mascot and go back several decades. If it proves > anything at all, it's that there are still religious elements in > various western societies who'd probably be a lot happier living in > someplace like Iran and should probably move there at the first > opportunity. :) > > Jordan > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 19:51:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07990 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:51:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07964 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:51:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA03780; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:52:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971126225226.33791@vmunix.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:52:26 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Tom Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Japan FreeBSD RC5!! Wow! References: <19971126135649.31538@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 03:44:23PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 03:44:23PM -0800, Tom wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Mark Mayo wrote: > > > Wow, I just peeded at the latest RC564 stats, and the Japan > > FreeBSD Users Group is kicking ass!! As of right now, they're the > > #1 team at their current rate. #7 overall, but it looks like within > > 1 or 2 days they'll be at #5 or so. Very impressive. I knew FreeBSD > > was a pretty hot ticket in Japan, but I had no idea it was this > > hot!! > > > > Team-FreeBSD is also doing quite well, 16th overall but moving > > up - 11th best rate yesterday. Good stuff as well. It really > > looks good for FreeBSD when we're placing high up in the RC5 stats. > > Now we just have to get the operating system numbers up, although > > it looks like we'll finally pass OS/2 in the next few days. Phew! > > > > -Mark > > > > This belongs on freebsd-chat, not hackers. Indeed. I intended to send it there, but somehow typed "hackers" instead of "chat" - must have been the same defective neuron that fired and caused me to type "peeded at the RC5 stats" instead of "peeked"... :-) Directed to -chat from here on in. -Mark > > Tom -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 19:54:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09686 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:54:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09644 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:54:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@HiWAAY.net) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net (tnt2-86.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.86]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA24170; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:54:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <347CEF51.41C67EA6@hiwaay.net> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:56:01 -0600 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Japan FreeBSD RC5!! Wow! References: <5685.880598385@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Speaking of which, anyone notice "Team CheataLista" in 8th place, > suddenly coming out of nowhere with a hallucinogenic number of > keys/sec? "I wonder..." :) > And here is there team summary: Team CheataLista has the sole purpose of attacking the distributed.net proxy system and flooding the servers with blocks. Our stats are articificially inflated simply because we are resubmitting the same blocks hundreds of thousands of times, thus overloading the stats and crashing several of the proxies. If that isn't an admission of guilt... :) Steve > Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 19:57:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11342 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:57:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11309 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:57:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA03827; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:57:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971126225753.45132@vmunix.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:57:53 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Andre Albsmeier Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Japan FreeBSD RC5!! Wow! References: <19971126135649.31538@vmunix.com> <199711262029.VAA12992@intern> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199711262029.VAA12992@intern>; from Andre Albsmeier on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 09:29:24PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 09:29:24PM +0100, Andre Albsmeier wrote: > > Wow, I just peeded at the latest RC564 stats, and the Japan > > FreeBSD Users Group is kicking ass!! As of right now, they're the > > #1 team at their current rate. #7 overall, but it looks like within > > 1 or 2 days they'll be at #5 or so. Very impressive. I knew FreeBSD > > was a pretty hot ticket in Japan, but I had no idea it was this > > hot!! > > > > Team-FreeBSD is also doing quite well, 16th overall but moving > > up - 11th best rate yesterday. Good stuff as well. It really > > Do you know why these two don't unite? If yes they would be > already on #5 today. I currently don't join a group (difficult > decision) but if these two were one, it would be easier :-) Well, unless you're part of the Japan FreeBSD Users group than "Team FreeBSD" is for you! I don't think we really need to join, having two FreeBSD teams placing well looks good as well. I think the "Team FreeBSD" group will pick up considerably as the contest matures. I know lots of people who aren't participating right now due to the somewhat questionable stability of the stats server (which has nothing to do with key block registration, but shakes people confidence none-the-less...). -Mark > > -Andre -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 22:13:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01233 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:13:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01228 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (EzH3VgLMD8e2pQ6IRMZlOsSjkoWHfaPA@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08686; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:54:06 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (/q2waOu0//4hO1ONhj0OOxSsIxylW6YX@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13862; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:54:05 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199711270554.HAA13862@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Peter Philipp , Andreas Klemm , de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:54:05 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > By the way, do you know what you get when you cross a Jehova's witness > with an Atheist? > > > Someone who knocks on your door for no reason! :) What do you get when you cross a Jehovah's witness with a Hell's angel? Someone who knocks on your door and tells _you_ to fuck off. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 22:13:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01249 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:13:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01226; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:13:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (4P8d7iAzLwxv19s1rwFfbJILRe90HyI0@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08682; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:52:16 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (VVdC5zvHIVim9gXgJQnKTtcMjwi4+4KT@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13843; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:52:23 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199711270552.HAA13843@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , dg@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD.ORG name servers (was: Re: major push by spammers?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:52:22 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund wrote: > Is there any particular reason to not run a secondary in some other > location(s), more netwise dispersed? I can run a secondary here if it > is of interest - it take me about 3 minutes to set one up. (About 100 > to 150 ms from the major parts of the US and Europe. Approx 3 hours > line downtime during the last year). Me too. I can happily run a secondary in a very well connected NS in South Africa. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 22:22:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01729 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:22:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01725 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:22:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id XAA00484; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:25:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199711270425.XAA00484@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-Reply-To: <5845.880598956@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Nov 26, 97 06:49:16 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:25:30 -0500 (EST) Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard said: > > I think people shouldn't be too put out by these occasional incidents. > There are some good ones about texas rednecks and "we just wanted to > know what the lord of darkness was doing on your chest, Maam?" which > involve our little mascot and go back several decades. If it proves > anything at all, it's that there are still religious elements in > various western societies who'd probably be a lot happier living in > someplace like Iran and should probably move there at the first > opportunity. :) > Well, as many people know, I live in Indiana (midwest US.) The states bordering on Indiana include Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois and Michigan. In most areas of those states, I think one could easily find people who misunderstand the Daemon. The risk isn't the 99% of people who are either tolerant or kind-of understand, it is the 1% who are fools that one might run into, and do the Lord's work, expunging the forces of "evil." Not only does one need to worry about people who are religious, but one also has to worry about those who simply want a target. IMO, the daemon issue, isn't a problem, but one can make it a problem showing the daemon to the wrong people. Here in Central Indiana, we have problems with kids getting into devil worship cults, and wouldn't be very surprised that soccer moms could be concerned also. Then we have the "bikers", who have to practice their skills once in a while, and who else to practice them on? (Skills include target practice with a baseball bat, using a head as a target.) -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 23:18:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05310 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:18:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05297 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:18:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA06279; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:17:52 +0100 (CET) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA18115; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:17:51 +0100 (CET) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Peter Philipp , Andreas Klemm , de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <6059.880600076@time.cdrom.com> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 27 Nov 1997 08:17:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:07:56 -0800 Message-ID: <87sosiolep.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > A few years back, when just starting to live out of my parents house, the > > jehovia's liked coming by my house and talking to my roomate. He liked > > talking to them and telling him his theories about god and such. > > By the way, do you know what you get when you cross a Jehova's witness > with an Atheist? > > > Someone who knocks on your door for no reason! :) How would you know the difference? tg From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 23:53:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07231 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07218 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:53:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA17121; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:52:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga9-13.ix.netcom.com(199.183.210.109) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma016682; Thu Nov 27 01:50:29 1997 Message-ID: <347D265B.218EB28E@bigfoot.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:50:51 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <19971126204207.18278@klemm.gtn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andreas Klemm wrote: > > Well, finally I got 2.2.5 promotion CD's this morning.... > > I was missing one document, because it were two packages and > feared, I have to go to town once again ... but the customs officer > was so nice to give me a tip, how to get a copy of the needed > document directly from the "snail mail" office only some hundereds > meters away ... > > Well so I managed it to get everything in one day and was so thankful > that I offered the customs officer one FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD-Rom after he > told me, that his son in the age of 16 has a computer with windows 95. > > But he refused to get the CD-Rom ... Well I tried to persuade him, > that I didn't want to make a deal with him, I only wanted to give > it to him, because of the nice service ... > > Well, then he told me, it's because of the demon symbol .... > He is "witnes of Jehova" ;-))) So he can't tale my offer. > > Well I tried to explan to him, that this is only a masquot of > the developemen team and was only chosen because of daemon > programs so a demon is the masqot. > > "Yes, he told me ... these demons work in the background and try > to influence us to something bad ..." > > Umpf ;-)) I wished him a nice day, said to him, yes I also belive > in something like "good" and went away ... > > Someone other with such "demon stories" ?! ;-) > > Andreas /// > > -- > Andreas Klemm > powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' Satan's *true* form is a penguin :) Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 26 23:54:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07303 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:54:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07284; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA06815; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:53:59 -0800 (PST) To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:25:30 EST." <199711270425.XAA00484@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:53:59 -0800 Message-ID: <6811.880617239@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, as many people know, I live in Indiana (midwest US.) The states > bordering on Indiana include Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois and Michigan. In > most areas of those states, I think one could easily find people who > misunderstand the Daemon. The risk isn't the 99% of people who are Well, then why not have a "sanitized" logo which shows just the words "FreeBSD - The Power to Serve [the lord]" with no daemon picture at all or, perhaps better yet, the image of a halo'd angel which just happens to be carrying a trident for some inexplicable reason. We could target this version at the bible belt and other centers of religious tolerence. But why stop there? I could envision something localized to, say the Jamaican religious market too. Jah chuckie! It could work! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 00:16:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08328 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mescaline.gnu.org (devnull@mescaline.gnu.org [158.121.106.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08321; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:16:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from devnull@gnu.org) Received: by mescaline.gnu.org (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id DAA04646; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:17:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:17:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199711270817.DAA04646@mescaline.gnu.org> From: "Joel N. Weber II" To: luomat@peak.org CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199711261523.KAA03242@luomat.peak.org> (message from Timothy J Luoma on Wed, 26 Nov 97 10:23:35 -0500) Subject: Re: major push by spammers? x-url: http://www.red-bean.com/~nemo x-attribution: nemo x-foobar: "Rugged": Too heavy to lift. References: <18314.880528819@time.cdrom.com> <199711261523.KAA03242@luomat.peak.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You'd be surprised how often there are temp DNS timeouts.... too man damn people using the Internet these days ;-) gnu.org has some scripts which run daily, sending diffs to people when files change. In the last week, I've gotten `permanant' bounces for three different people; reseending after waiting a few days seems to have caused the messages to get through... From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 00:25:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08797 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:25:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08793 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:25:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA06641; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:24:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga9-13.ix.netcom.com(199.183.210.109) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006635; Thu Nov 27 02:23:51 1997 Message-ID: <347D2E2D.93133F90@bigfoot.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:24:13 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <6811.880617239@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh, I heard another nasty rumor... Someone told me Chuck's really a *girl* What's with that? Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 00:33:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09146 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09140 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:33:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA07007; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:33:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga9-13.ix.netcom.com(199.183.210.109) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007001; Thu Nov 27 02:33:03 1997 Message-ID: <347D3055.6C710AB3@bigfoot.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:33:25 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG CC: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <6811.880617239@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oops I was wrong, Satan's *true* form is an animated paperclip ;) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 00:41:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09791 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:41:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user10549@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA09785 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:41:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 27 Nov 1997 08:46:27 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:46:26 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-Reply-To: <6811.880617239@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, then why not have a "sanitized" logo which shows just the words > "FreeBSD - The Power to Serve [the lord]" with no daemon picture at > all or, perhaps better yet, the image of a halo'd angel which just > happens to be carrying a trident for some inexplicable reason. We > could target this version at the bible belt and other centers of > religious tolerence. > > But why stop there? I could envision something localized to, say the > Jamaican religious market too. Jah chuckie! It could work! :) > Jah Chookie - Smoke the competition. That would be an interesting logo! Or Ireland: McChucky for Health (holding pint of Guinness) Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 00:42:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09845 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:42:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09840 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:42:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA07062; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:42:11 -0800 (PST) To: Atipa cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:46:26 MST." Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:42:11 -0800 Message-ID: <7059.880620131@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Well, then why not have a "sanitized" logo which shows just the words > > "FreeBSD - The Power to Serve [the lord]" with no daemon picture at > > all or, perhaps better yet, the image of a halo'd angel which just > > happens to be carrying a trident for some inexplicable reason. We > > could target this version at the bible belt and other centers of > > religious tolerence. > > > > But why stop there? I could envision something localized to, say the > > Jamaican religious market too. Jah chuckie! It could work! :) > > > > Jah Chookie - Smoke the competition. > That would be an interesting logo! No kidding. Damn, I'd pay good money to have that one on a T-shirt. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 00:43:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09932 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:43:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user10565@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA09923 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:43:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 27 Nov 1997 08:49:18 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:49:18 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Jerry Hicks cc: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-Reply-To: <347D265B.218EB28E@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Someone other with such "demon stories" ?! ;-) > > > > Satan's *true* form is a penguin :) > Jerry Hicks > jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com Now the "Bud Light" commercials make sense... Doobie Doobie Doobie! We can run, be we can't hide! Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 00:55:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA10548 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:55:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obsidian.noc.dfn.de (obsidian.noc.dfn.de [193.174.247.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10544; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:55:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schweikh@obsidian.noc.dfn.de) Received: (from schweikh@localhost) by obsidian.noc.dfn.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12934; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:55:28 +0100 (MET) From: Jens Schweikhardt Message-Id: <199711270855.JAA12934@obsidian.noc.dfn.de> Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:55:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, andreas@klemm.gtn.com, de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <6811.880617239@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 26, 97 11:53:59 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hello, world\n # > Well, as many people know, I live in Indiana (midwest US.) The states # > bordering on Indiana include Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois and Michigan. In # > most areas of those states, I think one could easily find people who # > misunderstand the Daemon. The risk isn't the 99% of people who are # # Well, then why not have a "sanitized" logo which shows just the words # "FreeBSD - The Power to Serve [the lord]" with no daemon picture at # all or, perhaps better yet, the image of a halo'd angel which just # happens to be carrying a trident for some inexplicable reason. We # could target this version at the bible belt and other centers of # religious tolerence. It should be noted that *BSD already has a religiously correct motto. Everybody reading the newsgroup description knows that BSD is God's Own Operating System. (At least de.comp.os.bsd has "Gottes eigenes Betriebssystem"). Jehova's Wittnesses should *run* for that! Regards, Jens -- Jens Schweikhardt http://www.uni-stuttgart.de/People/schweikhardt SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 02:04:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA14157 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:04:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joel.hld.c64.org (hld.c64.org [203.19.107.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA14114 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:03:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gardners@joel.hld.c64.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by joel.hld.c64.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA13368 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:41:05 GMT Message-Id: <200011271941.TAA13368@joel.hld.c64.org> X-Authentication-Warning: joel.hld.c64.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:55:27 +0100." <199711270855.JAA12934@obsidian.noc.dfn.de> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:41:04 +0000 From: Paul Gardner-Stephen Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > It should be noted that *BSD already has a religiously correct > motto. Everybody reading the newsgroup description knows that > BSD is God's Own Operating System. (At least de.comp.os.bsd > has "Gottes eigenes Betriebssystem"). Jehova's Wittnesses > should *run* for that! Is there also some neat-o logo to go with that? since it would be a good thing, i also know some ppl here who wont touch BSD for that reason (maybe i should tell them that windoze also has "daemon" processes ;), and though im no fundy myself, i would prefer to have an alternate logo. Paul. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 03:27:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA17104 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:27:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA17099 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:27:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id MAA21760; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:15:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA25153; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:35:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19971127093509.38124@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:35:09 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <6059.880600076@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <6059.880600076@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 07:07:56PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 07:07:56PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > A few years back, when just starting to live out of my parents house, the > > jehovia's liked coming by my house and talking to my roomate. He liked > > talking to them and telling him his theories about god and such. > > By the way, do you know what you get when you cross a Jehova's witness > with an Atheist? > > > Someone who knocks on your door for no reason! :) ROTFL ;-))) -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 08:00:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA29778 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:00:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super.zippo.com (perry.zippo.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29772 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reyesf@super.zippo.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by super.zippo.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) id IAA22118; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:00:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711271600.IAA22118@super.zippo.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSD Chat List" Date: Thu, 27 Nov 97 11:02:17 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Registration to chat list. About time! Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just changed my chat membership from one account to another. The list server asked for authentication. I think it is a step in the right direction in the fight against spam. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 08:57:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02449 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:57:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wavefront.wavefront.com (daemon@ns.wavefront.com [204.73.244.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA02437 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:57:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ocean@wavefront.com) Received: by wavefront.wavefront.com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1.R931202) id KAA03027; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:55:35 -0600 Received: from UNKNOWN(204.73.244.214), claiming to be "wavefront.com" via SMTP by ns.wavefront.com, id smtpdAAAa03014; Thu Nov 27 16:55:29 1997 Message-ID: <347DA642.A4344CCD@wavefront.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:56:35 -0600 From: Michael Porter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shawn Ramsey CC: Alastair Rankine , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > BTW I'm sure I'm not the only one disinterested in your opinions on > > Macs. Another forum for that sort of post please. > > Sorry. I should have refrained, but its hard to resist the temptation to > slam Macs...:) (no offence to anyone who likes Macs, although I doubt many > FreeBSD'ers would use or like Macs) I agree, I didn't think any FreeBSDers liked Crapintoshes. My HP48GX runs faster and smoother. Hey HP, how about a port of the HP48 software to Crapintosh! HAHHAHA! Hey, here's an idea, lets setup an old 386 with 4 megs of RAM in a Crapintosh case, and setup FreeBSD on it, then install that window manager thats supposed to be like a Mac, we'd have the WORLD'S FASTEST MACINTOSH!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Ahhhhh, I feel better now. I hope I don't get banished off these mailing lists for this, but I had to say it. I don't have anything against *people* who use crapintoshes, I just can't understand why they would want to. Here's my major grievences: 1:) I've heard they're hard to upgrade. I've never tried, so this could be totally wrong 2:) Although I've heard that the PowerPC chip is *very* good (hey, it's made by Motorola and IBM, it's got to be at least pretty good!) Comparing same software on same price systems, and similar chip-clock-rate systems yields better results on IBM compatibles (my tests and my friends) 3:) Crapintoshes used to have superior graphing abilities. Not anymore. 4:) NO SHELL USE!!! AACK!! My friend (a Crapintosh supporter) says you can buy software for shells. Hmmmm....I've never heard of any. I really could go on for quite awhile, but I'll stop my whining now : ) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 09:42:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07795 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:42:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07774 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12815 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:42:10 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id LAA16930; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:41:39 -0600 Message-ID: <19971127114138.16596@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:41:38 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Happy thanksgiving Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Happy Thanksgiving to everyone... And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". she and her mother are fine; her dad is wondering how he is going to deal with 3 little girls now. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 09:42:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07913 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:42:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07906 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:42:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04745; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:42:24 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA12771; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:42:18 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:42:18 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199711271742.SAA12771@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: mark@vmunix.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:39:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Japan FreeBSD RC5!! Wow! References: <19971126135649.31538@vmunix.com> <5685.880598385@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Wow, I just peeded at the latest RC564 stats, and the Japan > > FreeBSD Users Group is kicking ass!! As of right now, they're the > > #1 team at their current rate. #7 overall, but it looks like within > > 1 or 2 days they'll be at #5 or so. Very impressive. I knew FreeBSD > > was a pretty hot ticket in Japan, but I had no idea it was this > > hot!! > > Speaking of which, anyone notice "Team CheataLista" in 8th place, > suddenly coming out of nowhere with a hallucinogenic number of > keys/sec? "I wonder..." :) Seen the description? :-( Team Summary for Team CheataLista Team CheataLista has the sole purpose of attacking the distributed.net proxy system and flooding the servers with blocks. Our stats are articificially inflated simply because we are resubmitting the same blocks hundreds of thousands of times, thus overloading the stats and crashing several of the proxies. Primary contact is: Modem Biker This team is Team ID #1471 Well, at least they don't fake-complete blocks. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 10:19:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13008 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:19:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12978; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:19:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711271819.KAA12978@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:19:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971127114138.16596@right.PCS> from "Jonathan Lemon" at Nov 27, 97 11:41:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > > Happy Thanksgiving to everyone... > > And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: > > Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". Congratulations! 9#.....thats a healthy girl! > > she and her mother are fine; her dad is wondering how he is going to > deal with 3 little girls now. how old are the others? jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 10:58:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15303 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:58:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15297; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:58:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711271858.KAA15297@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Registration to chat list. About time! To: reyesf@super.zippo.com Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:58:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199711271600.IAA22118@super.zippo.com> from "Francisco Reyes" at Nov 27, 97 11:02:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Francisco Reyes wrote: > > I just changed my chat membership from one account to another. The > list server asked for authentication. I think it is a step in the > right direction in the fight against spam. > > one of several. all mail must come from DNS resolveable addresses. all subscriptions to -chat must be confirmed. this will spread to other lists. look for an announcement on announce in the near future. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 11:18:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16164 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16160 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:18:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA06404; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:17:39 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:17:39 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Michael Porter cc: Shawn Ramsey , Alastair Rankine , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord In-Reply-To: <347DA642.A4344CCD@wavefront.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Michael Porter wrote: > > > > > > > > BTW I'm sure I'm not the only one disinterested in your opinions on > > > Macs. Another forum for that sort of post please. > > > > Sorry. I should have refrained, but its hard to resist the temptation to > > slam Macs...:) (no offence to anyone who likes Macs, although I doubt many > > FreeBSD'ers would use or like Macs) > > I agree, I didn't think any FreeBSDers liked Crapintoshes. My HP48GX runs > faster and smoother. Hey HP, how about a port of the HP48 software to > Crapintosh! HAHHAHA! > Hey, here's an idea, lets setup an old 386 with 4 megs of RAM in a Crapintosh > case, and setup FreeBSD on it, then install that window manager thats supposed > to be like a Mac, we'd have the > WORLD'S FASTEST MACINTOSH!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Well, why not just port FreeBSD to Macs? The hardware is not *that* bad. > Ahhhhh, I feel better now. I hope I don't get banished off these mailing > lists for this, but I had to say it. I don't have anything against *people* > who use crapintoshes, I just can't understand why they would want to. Here's > my major grievences: > > 1:) I've heard they're hard to upgrade. I've never tried, so this could be > totally wrong It depends. Like you can buy an old macintosh having a 100Mhz 601 and pop in a 750@275/275 backside L2 cache or 604/350 Mhz. Yes, the memory bus stays at 50 Mhz. > 2:) Although I've heard that the PowerPC chip is *very* good (hey, it's made > by Motorola and IBM, it's got to be at least pretty good!) Comparing same > software on same price systems, and similar chip-clock-rate systems yields > better results on IBM compatibles (my tests and my friends) Using which operating system? > 3:) Crapintoshes used to have superior graphing abilities. Not anymore. Don't know, won't comment. But they tended to come with VRAM (now with SGRAM) while most PC graphics cards are still DRAM. > 4:) NO SHELL USE!!! AACK!! My friend (a Crapintosh supporter) says you can > buy software for shells. Hmmmm....I've never heard of any. No this is purely a software issue. If you run some other software than MacOS on them, you can certainly have shells. > > I really could go on for quite awhile, but I'll stop my whining now : ) > Sander who does not own a Mac. There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 11:29:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16778 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.globalserve.net (pluto.globalserve.net [209.90.144.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16768 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:29:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from philipp@pluto.globalserve.net) Received: from localhost (philipp@localhost) by pluto.globalserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA10172; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:30:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from philipp@pluto.globalserve.net) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:30:17 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Philipp To: Andrew Perry cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah perhaps I did overreact, apologies I didn't mean to sound so harsh :P, spam still sucks :P Peter On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Andrew Perry wrote: > Before your jump on your high horse have you considered the fact that this > may have been a late night -x y type mistake? Having been in the > embarrasing position of having done this myself I think it is unnecessary > to overreact. > > Everyone hates spam :-) > > Andrew Perry > andrew@shoal.net.au > > > > > This is outrageous, would you please not post to all FreeBSD lists as I > > frankly don't care much for this spam. It takes one bad person to start > > spamming all lists but it's silly to continue the thread by replying to it > > by carbon-copying all lists again. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 11:49:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18301 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:49:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18288 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:48:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA26563 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:48:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga7-08.ix.netcom.com(199.183.210.40) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026556; Thu Nov 27 13:48:00 1997 Message-ID: <347DCE85.81C2483E@bigfoot.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:48:21 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > 4:) NO SHELL USE!!! AACK!! My friend (a Crapintosh supporter) says you can > > buy software for shells. Hmmmm....I've never heard of any. > > No this is purely a software issue. If you run some other software than > MacOS on them, you can certainly have shells. This might be a bit unfair. I seem to recall a csh for MacOS. Lightspeed C had a micro-shell. We found LS C to be a worthwhile tool for teaching (very) newbie programmers who already have a Mac. Apple marketing and management? Well, that's another flame altogether. Happy Thanksgiving, Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 13:44:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25170 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25165 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:44:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06441; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:43:42 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA13384; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:42:39 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:42:39 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199711272142.WAA13384@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Narvi CC: ocean@wavefront.com, shawn@shawn.cpl.net, alastair@cia.com.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Narvi's message of Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:17:39 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord References: <347DA642.A4344CCD@wavefront.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > 4:) NO SHELL USE!!! AACK!! My friend (a Crapintosh supporter) says you can > > buy software for shells. Hmmmm....I've never heard of any. > > No this is purely a software issue. If you run some other software than > MacOS on them, you can certainly have shells. Apple offer the Mac Programmer Workbench, which come with almost decent shell support. (The shell was actually better than Unix shells in some respects, IIRC). Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 14:13:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26502 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:13:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26496 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:13:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA26579; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:43:05 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971128084305.46054@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:43:05 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving References: <19971127114138.16596@right.PCS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19971127114138.16596@right.PCS>; from Jonathan Lemon on Thu, Nov 27, 1997 at 11:41:38AM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 27, 1997 at 11:41:38AM -0600, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > Happy Thanksgiving to everyone... > > And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: Congratulations! > Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, Is that lb? > 19.5". > > she and her mother are fine; her dad is wondering how he is going to > deal with 3 little girls now. Leave it to mum? What does Kostrubala mean? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 14:31:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27661 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27653 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.1/nospam) with UUCP id XAA23688 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:31:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id WAA04326; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:09:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971127220925.51066@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:09:25 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving References: <19971127114138.16596@right.PCS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19971127114138.16596@right.PCS>; from Jonathan Lemon on Thu, Nov 27, 1997 at 11:41:38AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3845 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Jonathan Lemon: > And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: > > Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". Congratulations! Life will be ... interesting with 3 girls in a few years :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #18: Tue Nov 25 22:32:12 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 14:43:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28254 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:43:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28249 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:43:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01629; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:42:22 -0800 (PST) To: Ollivier Robert cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:09:25 +0100." <19971127220925.51066@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:42:22 -0800 Message-ID: <1625.880670542@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > According to Jonathan Lemon: > > And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: > > > > Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". > > Congratulations! > > Life will be ... interesting with 3 girls in a few years :-) No kidding. Better buy a shotgun now, before the prices go up. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 15:45:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01438 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 15:45:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01421 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 15:45:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous235.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.235]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15681; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:42:59 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA00810; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:14:29 +0100 (MET) To: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U References: <199711251853.NAA01005@luomat.peak.org> From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 27 Nov 1997 23:14:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: Timothy J Luoma's message of Tue, 25 Nov 97 13:53:44 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 19 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org winnuke is your friend. Yes, it worked for Jake Luke ;-)) Timothy J Luoma writes: > My apologies for the wide-crosspost, I just wanted to save some folks some time. > > >From searching several phone directories online, it appears that the person > who sent this spam did so on behalf of: > > Jack Luke > 39 Panda Av > Middleburg, FL 32068-4765 > (904) 282-0945 > > That was the phone number listed in the spam which hit about 8 or 9 times on > the FreeBSD lists, and I assume the wider internet as well. -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.apfel.de/~wosch/ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 18:05:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10179 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:05:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10016; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:02:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711280202.SAA10016@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: reverse DNS not all bad To: chat Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:02:32 -0800 (PST) Cc: root@[146.164.5.200], root@[200.241.133.2], root@[207.6.35.100], postmaster@[146.164.5.200], postmaster@[200.241.133.2], postmaster@[207.6.35.100] X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org here's a spam that reverse DNS killed. notice the "Authenticated sender is " now, admittedly, it was sent to only one person.... but we must be on the right track ;) now if everyone would fix their DNS 200.241.133.2 146.164.5.200 207.6.35.100 jmb Mail Delivery Subsystem wrote: > From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 27 17:51:50 1997 > Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:51:50 -0800 (PST) > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > Message-Id: <199711280151.RAA08886@hub.freebsd.org> > To: postmaster > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; > boundary="RAA08886.880681910/hub.freebsd.org" > Subject: Postmaster notify: Cannot send message within 5 days > Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification) > > This is a MIME-encapsulated message > > --RAA08886.880681910/hub.freebsd.org > > The original message was received at Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) > from localhost > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 451 ... phonemenow.com: Name server timeout > Message could not be delivered for 5 days > Message will be deleted from queue > > --RAA08886.880681910/hub.freebsd.org > Content-Type: message/delivery-status > > Reporting-MTA: dns; hub.freebsd.org > Arrival-Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; news@phonemenow.com > Action: failed > Status: 4.4.7 > Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:51:50 -0800 (PST) > > --RAA08886.880681910/hub.freebsd.org > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > > Return-Path: > Received: from localhost (localhost) > by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with internal id QAA07677; > Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) > (envelope-from MAILER-DAEMON) > Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > Message-Id: <199711230053.QAA07677@hub.freebsd.org> > To: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; > boundary="QAA07677.880246427/hub.freebsd.org" > Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 5 days > Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) > > This is a MIME-encapsulated message > > --QAA07677.880246427/hub.freebsd.org > > The original message was received at Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:44:31 -0800 (PST) > from mail.loxcomm.com [206.50.188.163] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > jfieber@indiana.edu > (expanded from: ) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 451 ... phonemenow.com: Name server timeout > 451 ... phonemenow.com: Name server timeout > 451 jfieber@indiana.edu... phonemenow.com: Name server timeout > ... while talking to eot.cs.uoregon.edu.: > >>> MAIL From: SIZE=822 > <<< 451 ... Domain must resolve > jfieber@indiana.edu... Deferred: 451 ... Domain must resolve > 451 ... phonemenow.com: Name server timeout > Message could not be delivered for 5 days > Message will be deleted from queue > 451 ... phonemenow.com: Name server timeout > > --QAA07677.880246427/hub.freebsd.org > Content-Type: message/delivery-status > > Reporting-MTA: dns; hub.freebsd.org > Arrival-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:44:31 -0800 (PST) > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; jfieber@hub.freebsd.org > X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; jfieber@indiana.edu > Action: failed > Status: 4.4.7 > Remote-MTA: DNS; eot.cs.uoregon.edu > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 451 ... Domain must resolve > Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) > > --QAA07677.880246427/hub.freebsd.org > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > > Return-Path: > Received: from mail.Loxommus1 (mail.loxcomm.com [206.50.188.163]) > by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28689 > for ; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:44:31 -0800 (PST) > (envelope-from news@phonemenow.com) > From: news@phonemenow.com > Received: from host5.loxcomm.com by mail.Loxommus1 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1664.3) > id WWZRBRTX; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:28:37 -0600 > Received: from news@phonemenow.com by news@10.1.2.3 (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA06345 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:01:50 -0600 (EST) > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 97 17:01:50 EST > To: jfieber@freebsd.org > Subject: A phone jack for your web site > Message-ID: <> > Reply-To: news@phonemenow.com > Comments: Authenticated sender is > > Dear jfieber@freebsd.org, > > Announcing a new service for web pages from PhoneMeNow. PhoneMeNow service provides > your web site with instant connections to the public telephone network. > > Instantly connect your sales, customer service or other departments to browsers of > your web site with the simple click of a button on your web site through > the public telephone network with PhoneMeNow service. > > PhoneMeNow also offers virtual office, fax and find me services. > > Visit our web site at www.phonemenow.com for further information about our > exciting new service designed to connect your web site to your customers. > > You may try out our service for FREE by visiting http://www.phonemenow.com. > > http://www.phonemenow.com > news@phonemenow.com > > > --QAA07677.880246427/hub.freebsd.org-- > > > --RAA08886.880681910/hub.freebsd.org-- > > -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 18:07:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10342 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10335 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:07:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-126.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.126]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA29043 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:07:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA21099 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:41:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711280141.TAA21099@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord In-reply-to: Message from Michael Porter of "Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:56:35 CST." <347DA642.A4344CCD@wavefront.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:41:24 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Porter opened his big fat mouth and said: > > Good idea. > > > BTW I'm sure I'm not the only one disinterested in your opinions on > > > Macs. Another forum for that sort of post please. > > > > Sorry. I should have refrained, but its hard to resist the temptation to > > slam Macs...:) (no offence to anyone who likes Macs, although I doubt many > > FreeBSD'ers would use or like Macs) > > I agree, I didn't think any FreeBSDers liked Crapintoshes. My HP48GX runs > faster and smoother. Hey HP, how about a port of the HP48 software to > Crapintosh! HAHHAHA! I hate Crapintosh's too, whatever a Crapintosh is it sounds awful. But I love my Macintosh's, all 4 of them. And all 4 of my HP-41's, an HP-35, several HP-45's, and about 10 more HP calculators I've collected. > Hey, here's an idea, lets setup an old 386 with 4 megs of RAM in a Crapintosh > case, and setup FreeBSD on it, then install that window manager thats supposed > to be like a Mac, we'd have the > WORLD'S FASTEST MACINTOSH!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! > Ahhhhh, I feel better now. I hope I don't get banished off these mailing > lists for this, but I had to say it. I don't have anything against *people* > who use crapintoshes, I just can't understand why they would want to. This is the same kind of unreasoning crap on Linux email lists that caused me to look for something better than Linux. Generally the FreeBSD lists are a nice place to hang out with nice intelligent people. Generally, not always. > Here's my major grievences: > > 1:) I've heard they're hard to upgrade. I've never tried, so this could be > totally wrong Trivial to upgrade. The only jumper I've ever seen on a Mac I/O card was on a 3-Com built-for-Apple Ethernet card (NuBus) which had a jumper to select between AUI and BNC. And there never was a Plug-N-Pray config utility either. Tape, CDROM, and hard drives are very easy to attach. Printers are also very easy to attach and share, either by ethernet or LocalTalk. With the popularity of PCI, PC's are beginning to take the concept of multiple displays seriously. One day they may get to where Apple was in 1985 with the Mac II, where up to 6 monitors simply required 6 video cards to produce one large desktop spread across all the monitors. If you didn't like Apple's default layout of the monitors one could drag graphic scale models around to establish the relationship desired. Software development with two 19" monitors is pretty fun. In my case I was also laying out PCB's. Placing B&W schematics on my 19" greyscale monitor and multiple layer PCB artwork in color on another 19" was very handy. Ultimately I unhooked my 14" color monitor (3rd) because there were too many screens facing me. > 2:) Although I've heard that the PowerPC chip is *very* good (hey, it's made > by Motorola and IBM, it's got to be at least pretty good!) Comparing same > software on same price systems, and similar chip-clock-rate systems yields > better results on IBM compatibles (my tests and my friends) Run 68000 relocatable code on a 68040 Mac against anything-goes DOS code on a 486 and usually the 486 will look a bit better. Run the Bovine RC5-64 code on a PowerMac 604e and compare same against a PPro or P-II and the Mac wins handily. A G3 PowerMac beats everything. > 3:) Crapintoshes used to have superior graphing abilities. Not anymore. Microsoft (and Intergraph) Marketing Myth. Apple's WYSIWYG is superior. I'm talking about color matching and text alignment, screen to printer. Cutthroat 3D graphic card availability is much better for PC than Mac. I don't know if the 3D cards for PC's are faster than those for the Mac. Considering the nature of the PC market the PC 3D cards are probably much better at benchmarks than in real applications. The graphing 3D calculator Desk Accessory that ships with PowerMacs is one of the coolest tools I've ever seen. Wish I had that for Calculus in college. Doesn't require any special hardware (other than a PowerMac). > 4:) NO SHELL USE!!! AACK!! My friend (a Crapintosh supporter) says you can > buy software for shells. Hmmmm....I've never heard of any. MPW. Macintosh Programmer's Workbench, where every command line is in a file, and every file you edit is full of potential command lines. Press the Return key to move to the next line in the file. Press the Enter key to execute the line you just typed and insert its stdout at the current cursor. Select several lines and hit Enter to execute all the lines. MPW with 68k assembler used to be $100 SRP. I used Introl's 68HC11 C compiler under MPW to do a little 10k line project once. Metrowerks' Codewarrior has replaced Apple's internally produced MPW. I expect it includes the same MPW shell capabilities. Apparently Codewarrior is the the prefered (or only) development environment for the Palm Pilot. Its also a strong player in the Windows markets when someone is willing to bother looking beyond Microsoft. BeOS also uses Codewarrior. When I see Emacs users touting the abilities of their favorite do-everything editor I always think of MPW. There is an awful lot of good that has come from Apple and the Mac. I was glad to hear Rhapsody was taking a BSD slant. Give me a Mac, or give me Unix, preferably both. I have no use for Windows. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 18:28:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11653 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:28:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kevin.sunshine.net (pme86.sunshine.net [204.191.204.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11648 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by kevin.sunshine.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00413; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:26:49 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: kevin.sunshine.net: cagey owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:26:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Kevin G. Eliuk" X-Sender: cagey@kevin.sunshine.net To: Jonathan Lemon cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving In-Reply-To: <19971127114138.16596@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > Happy Thanksgiving to everyone... > > And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: > > Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". My daughter, Kevin, just turned two on that day and in reflecting on the last two years I offer sincere congratulations and wish you as much joy as I have experienced :-) > she and her mother are fine; her dad is wondering how he is going to > deal with 3 little girls now. One day at a time. > -- > Jonathan ------------------- Best regards, #######+@................| Kevin Eliuk ##### |.........,.......| |.................+ |...%..........V..| -----U------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 18:30:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11751 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.rosprint.net (mail1.RoSprint.net [193.232.88.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11741 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:30:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alx@scn.ru) Received: from keep.scn.ru (keep.scn.ru [195.151.16.41]) by mail1.rosprint.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA16130; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 05:29:38 +0300 Received: from alx.scn.ru (alx.scn.ru [195.151.16.36]) by keep.scn.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04123; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:31:05 +0700 (KRS) Message-Id: <199711280231.JAA04123@keep.scn.ru> From: "Alex N. Zhuravlev" To: "Jonathan Lemon" , Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:22:55 +0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Congratulations !!! Indeed it's great !!! (I mean three girls). ---------- > Îò: Jonathan Lemon > Êîìó: chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Òåìà: Happy thanksgiving > Äàòà: 28 íîÿáðÿ 1997 ã. 0:41 > > > Happy Thanksgiving to everyone... > > And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: > > Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". > > she and her mother are fine; her dad is wondering how he is going to > deal with 3 little girls now. > -- > Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 19:57:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16451 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:57:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (firewall-user@ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16435; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:56:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id NAA21763; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:57:12 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma021746; Fri, 28 Nov 97 13:56:44 +1000 Received: from localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au (localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA09500; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:56:46 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199711280356.NAA09500@ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au> X-Authentication-Warning: ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au: localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: reverse DNS not all bad References: <199711280202.SAA10016@hub.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <199711280202.SAA10016@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Fri, 28 Nov 1997 02:02:32 +0000" Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:56:46 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 28th November 1997, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: >here's a spam that reverse DNS killed. >notice the "Authenticated sender is " >now, admittedly, it was sent to only one person.... >but we must be on the right track ;) > >now if everyone would fix their DNS >200.241.133.2 >146.164.5.200 >207.6.35.100 Are you referring to the recent '550 Access denied' from hub.freebsd.org? If so, there must have been something else going on because our gateway has always reverse resolved, and still does. Even from freebsd.org: $ nslookup 203.108.138.66 freefall.freebsd.org Server: freefall.FreeBSD.ORG Address: 204.216.27.21 Name: ns.dtir.qld.gov.au Address: 203.108.138.66 Stephen. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 20:08:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17079 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:08:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17072 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13701; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:08:23 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id WAA24530; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:07:52 -0600 Message-ID: <19971127220751.11442@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:07:51 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving References: <19971127220925.51066@keltia.freenix.fr> <1625.880670542@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <1625.880670542@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Nov 11, 1997 at 02:42:22PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Nov 11, 1997 at 02:42:22PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > According to Jonathan Lemon: > > > And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: > > > > > > Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". > > > > Congratulations! > > > > Life will be ... interesting with 3 girls in a few years :-) > > No kidding. Better buy a shotgun now, before the prices go up. :-) Maybe I'll just have them take karate classes when they get older. :-) -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 20:51:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19367 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:51:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19355 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA10267; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 15:21:26 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971128152126.56426@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 15:21:26 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving References: <19971127220925.51066@keltia.freenix.fr> <1625.880670542@time.cdrom.com> <19971127220751.11442@right.PCS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19971127220751.11442@right.PCS>; from Jonathan Lemon on Thu, Nov 27, 1997 at 10:07:51PM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 27, 1997 at 10:07:51PM -0600, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > On Nov 11, 1997 at 02:42:22PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>> According to Jonathan Lemon: >>>> And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: >>>> >>>> Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". >>> >>> Congratulations! >>> >>> Life will be ... interesting with 3 girls in a few years :-) >> >> No kidding. Better buy a shotgun now, before the prices go up. :-) > > Maybe I'll just have them take karate classes when they get older. :-) Ask my daughter. She prefers Tae Kwon Do, Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 22:06:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22849 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:06:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp42.wcc.net [208.6.232.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22815; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:05:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from detlev!joelh) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA00737; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:04:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:04:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711280604.AAA00737@detlev.UUCP> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: grog@lemis.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <18154.880528164@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: major push by spammers? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <18154.880528164@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 2 ways: The first, if reverse DNS lookup fails, accounts for about 90% > of the rejects. When I first started doing this, I worried that > perhaps I was rejecting some legit emails so for the first couple of > weeks I'd do one day on, one day off. In 14 days worth of testing, I > got one "legitimate" message (though it was unanswerable due to said > misconfiguration, so I could have done without it :) and many many > hundreds of spams on the days that I had reverse DNS checking > disabled. Needless to say, I can't even imagine not having it on now. Now tell me, how does the reverse DNS lookup work? Does it perform a reverse DNS against the IP source vs. the line sent in EHLO, or what? -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 22:18:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23331 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23326; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA11757; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:47:59 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971128164758.02274@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:47:58 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: joelh@gnu.org Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: major push by spammers? References: <18154.880528164@time.cdrom.com> <199711280604.AAA00737@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711280604.AAA00737@detlev.UUCP>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Fri, Nov 28, 1997 at 12:04:04AM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 28, 1997 at 12:04:04AM -0600, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > >> 2 ways: The first, if reverse DNS lookup fails, accounts for about 90% >> of the rejects. When I first started doing this, I worried that >> perhaps I was rejecting some legit emails so for the first couple of >> weeks I'd do one day on, one day off. In 14 days worth of testing, I >> got one "legitimate" message (though it was unanswerable due to said >> misconfiguration, so I could have done without it :) and many many >> hundreds of spams on the days that I had reverse DNS checking >> disabled. Needless to say, I can't even imagine not having it on now. > > Now tell me, how does the reverse DNS lookup work? Does it perform a > reverse DNS against the IP source vs. the line sent in EHLO, or what? A reverse lookup takes the IP address and looks through the BIND hierarchy for a corresponding PTR record (more specifically, for address 192.109.197.137, it will look for a PTR record which matches 137.197.109.192.in-addr.arpa). A lot of systems don't have their reverse delegation set up correctly, so I suspect a number of innocent people are also being rejected. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 22:56:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25163 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:56:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp42.wcc.net [208.6.232.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25137; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:55:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from detlev!joelh) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01094; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:54:16 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:54:16 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711280654.AAA01094@detlev.UUCP> To: grog@lemis.com CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@hub.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <19971128164758.02274@lemis.com> (message from Greg Lehey on Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:47:58 +1030) Subject: Re: major push by spammers? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <18154.880528164@time.cdrom.com> <199711280604.AAA00737@detlev.UUCP> <19971128164758.02274@lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>> 2 ways: The first, if reverse DNS lookup fails, accounts for about 90% >>> of the rejects. When I first started doing this, I worried that >> Now tell me, how does the reverse DNS lookup work? Does it perform a >> reverse DNS against the IP source vs. the line sent in EHLO, or what? > A reverse lookup takes the IP address and looks through the BIND > hierarchy for a corresponding PTR record (more specifically, for > address 192.109.197.137, it will look for a PTR record which matches > 137.197.109.192.in-addr.arpa). A lot of systems don't have their > reverse delegation set up correctly, so I suspect a number of innocent > people are also being rejected. Yes, but what IP address is it looking for? The one in the TCP header? -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 00:07:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA29223 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:07:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from goliath.airnet.net (page.airnet.net [207.120.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29213 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:07:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@ninbsdbox.dyn.ml.org) Received: from ninbsdbox.dyn.ml.org (209.64.77.173) by goliath.airnet.net (WorldMail 1.3.122) for chat@freebsd.org; 28 Nov 1997 02:06:15 -0600 Message-ID: <347E7BBA.362451B9@ninbsdbox.dyn.ml.org> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 02:07:22 -0600 From: "Kris Kirby, KE4AHR" Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Chat Subject: Re: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord References: <199711280141.TAA21099@nospam.hiwaay.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly wrote: > > Michael Porter opened his big fat mouth and said: > > > > > > Good idea. I second the motion. > > 1:) I've heard they're hard to upgrade. I've never tried, so this could be > > totally wrong I'm sorry, but after the second word I am skeptical of his right to criticize. Heard? Isn't that a little unsubstantial? > With the popularity of PCI, PC's are beginning to take the concept of > multiple displays seriously. One day they may get to where Apple was in > 1985 with the Mac II, where up to 6 monitors simply required 6 video > cards to produce one large desktop spread across all the monitors. If > you didn't like Apple's default layout of the monitors one could drag > graphic scale models around to establish the relationship desired. Windows 95 (or was that 98?) I had heard was due to support two monitors, but the conditions were awful. 2 Identical PCI video cards. I mean same manufacturer, same make, same everything. And they *had* to be PCI. The monitors had to be identical too. Or at least dumb enuf that Windoze couldn't talk to them. > > Software development with two 19" monitors is pretty fun. In my case I > was also laying out PCB's. Placing B&W schematics on my 19" greyscale > monitor and multiple layer PCB artwork in color on another 19" was very > handy. Ultimately I unhooked my 14" color monitor (3rd) because there > were too many screens facing me. I saw this. It was without a doubt cool. > > 2:) Although I've heard that the PowerPC chip is *very* good (hey, it's made > > by Motorola and IBM, it's got to be at least pretty good!) Comparing same > > software on same price systems, and similar chip-clock-rate systems yields > > better results on IBM compatibles (my tests and my friends) Again, unsubstantial. > Cutthroat 3D graphic card availability is much better for PC than Mac. I > don't know if the 3D cards for PC's are faster than those for the Mac. > Considering the nature of the PC market the PC 3D cards are probably > much better at benchmarks than in real applications. Yeah, I'd have to go along with that. But (just about) the only apps for 3D cards are games. So the only real measure is some complicate render of something. > There is an awful lot of good that has come from Apple and the Mac. I > was glad to hear Rhapsody was taking a BSD slant. Give me a Mac, or > give me Unix, preferably both. I have no use for Windows. I have used Windows off and on (more off than on) since I could fit BSD on my machine. I use DOS for the toys and FBSD for the downloads and such. I haven't been able to leave Windows running Netscape (4) during a download and not have it crash. Or any FTP client for that matter. FBSD hasn't crashed on me. Netscape has, but I was running a beta. I am proud to say that I run FBSD. Windows is useless, except for Tetris. (I don't have a Nintendo.) Yes, I know about netris, but I haven't downloaded it and tried it. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR ------------------------------------------- Measure with a micrometer. Mark with chalk. Cut with an axe. (Now that's precision!) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 04:39:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA10587 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA10581; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711281239.EAA10581@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: reverse DNS not all bad To: syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:39:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au In-Reply-To: <199711280356.NAA09500@ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen McKay" at Nov 28, 97 01:56:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stephen McKay wrote: > > On Friday, 28th November 1997, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > >here's a spam that reverse DNS killed. > >notice the "Authenticated sender is " > >now, admittedly, it was sent to only one person.... > >but we must be on the right track ;) > > > >now if everyone would fix their DNS > >200.241.133.2 > >146.164.5.200 > >207.6.35.100 > > Are you referring to the recent '550 Access denied' from hub.freebsd.org? > If so, there must have been something else going on because our gateway > has always reverse resolved, and still does. Even from freebsd.org: are you still getting rejected? the '550 Access denied' was a different problem, which has been resolved. sadly it took about 24 hours to get fixed. had people sent me mail earlier i could have fixed it earlier. postmaster@freebsd.org Nov 28 01:16:48 hub sendmail[2460]: NOQUEUE: ruleset=check_relay, arg1=[200.241.133.2], arg2=200.241.133.2, relay=root@localhost, reject=451 Domain does not resolve hub jmb[168] nslookup 200.241.133.2 Server: who.cdrom.com Address: 204.216.27.3 *** who.cdrom.com can't find 200.241.133.2: Non-existent host/domain this is a problem for those folks, whoever they are. they need to fix their DNS. Nov 28 01:59:48 hub sendmail[5051]: NOQUEUE: ruleset=check_relay, arg1=mbg.vsnl.net.in.in-addr.arpa, arg2=202.54.12.3, relay=root@localhost, reject=451 Domain does not resolve this one resloves now, could have been delayed before. hub jmb[167] nslookup 202.54.12.3 Server: who.cdrom.com Address: 204.216.27.3 Name: mbg.vsnl.net.in.in-addr.arpa Address: 202.54.12.3 jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 04:51:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA11210 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:51:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (firewall-user@ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA11203; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id WAA04954; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:51:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma004952; Fri, 28 Nov 97 22:51:25 +1000 Received: from troll.dtir.qld.gov.au (troll.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.1]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA28958; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:51:20 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (syssgm@localhost) by troll.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA09031; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:51:17 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199711281251.WAA09031@troll.dtir.qld.gov.au> X-Authentication-Warning: troll.dtir.qld.gov.au: syssgm@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: reverse DNS not all bad References: <199711281239.EAA10581@hub.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <199711281239.EAA10581@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:39:26 -0800" Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:51:16 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 28th November 1997, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > are you still getting rejected? > > the '550 Access denied' was a different problem, which has been > resolved. No, it's fine now. I suspected it was a global cockup because of the bald and uninformative error message. > sadly it took about 24 hours to get fixed. had people > sent me mail earlier i could have fixed it earlier. > > postmaster@freebsd.org I did my best, but it rejected all my traffic. It refused me even the "help" command. My ssh keys were at home, so I had to give up. It's really quite tricky to get around this sort of problem. As anti-spam measures are taken up by people with less and less experience I expect more of this. Oops, that looks like a sly dig. You know what I mean, I hope. Stephen. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 05:32:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA13050 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 05:32:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13037 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 05:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.10-nospam) with ESMTP id OAA27880; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:32:04 +0100 (MET) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id OAA08541; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:32:03 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971128143202.PV30974@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:32:02 +0100 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord References: <199711280141.TAA21099@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199711280141.TAA21099@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Nov 27, 1997 19:41:24 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to David Kelly: > There is an awful lot of good that has come from Apple and the Mac. I > was glad to hear Rhapsody was taking a BSD slant. Probably even more than you think. From a friend's machine where I had a shell account on a recent beta, it looked like whole parts of Rhapsody come directly from NetBSD and/or OpenBSD. So much so that you have a compat_freebsd and a compat_linux man page (only the man pages are there, the emulation doesn't work and I don't think it's ever intended to, they probably just forgot to remove the man pages): | DESCRIPTION | OpenBSD supports running FreeBSD binaries. Most binaries should work, ex- ^^^^^^^ /usr/share/man/man8/compat_linux.8: | .\" $NetBSD: compat_linux.8,v 1.2 1995/10/16 20:17:59 fvdl Exp $ Even compat_sunos and a compat_svr4 are there :-) -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 06:23:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA15179 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 06:23:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from blue.bad.bris.ac.uk (blue.bad.bris.ac.uk [137.222.132.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA15159 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 06:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk) Received: (qmail 16913 invoked by uid 57242); 28 Nov 1997 14:23:01 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:51:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Aled Treharne Reply-To: felix@royal.net To: Gary Palmer cc: Nate Williams , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: verify taht bulk_mailer In-Reply-To: <23808.880561208@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > To seperate out the FreeBSD lists from my main `personal' inbox. The > X-Loop header was perfect for the job. Note the past tense :( Chat is > still falling through :( Hmmmm....I just use procmail on the domain name : :0 * ^From.owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org in-fbsd-chat :0 * ^From.owner-freebsd-announce@freebsd.org in-fbsd-announce :0 * ^From.owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org in-fbsd-questions Isn't this easier? - -Taff. Aled Treharne felix@royal.net "Big Bird meets Salvador Dali has been brought to you by the numbers L and ), and by the letter 3." For PGP Public key finger taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk #include(std.disclaim) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNHyn88aJukNO1flNAQECMwQAlXz5Y28QnDQAV3dMhrFsAvAEM+MM3qr2 Zk0kGcZnmjCkRaAVX1w9/npO5HLnOzut1sxacN36w2W/SN+VNzT7646a236CsBN7 D0YnY8GDz1/HnrESyoHpvWiBIulU23zppNq7tPU43Z557j/JgkvmG9GDY++xRCqN /XNaGjWjomA= =w2TC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 08:11:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA22066 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:11:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22062 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jflists@mail.calweb.com) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA14535; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:11:05 -0800 (PST) X-SMTP: helo devnull from jflists@pop.calweb.com server @devnull.calweb.com ip 207.173.135.51 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971128080339.00a03930@pop.calweb.com> Warning: Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) will be returned to send in bulk X-Sender: jflists@pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:03:39 -0800 To: Stephen McKay From: "jfesler@calweb.com" Subject: Re: reverse DNS not all bad Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199711281251.WAA09031@troll.dtir.qld.gov.au> References: <199711281239.EAA10581@hub.freebsd.org> <199711281239.EAA10581@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:51 PM 11/28/97 +1000, you wrote: >It's really quite tricky to get around this sort of problem. As anti-spam >measures are taken up by people with less and less experience I expect more >of this. Oops, that looks like a sly dig. You know what I mean, I hope. It's specifically this reason that the filters I wrote here (front-ends to sendmail, sorry, not sendmail.cf rules) specically permit mail to postmaster, even when normally mail would be refused otherwise. Error messages also refer to sendmail "postmaster" email. I would *think* that sendmail rules could also be written to permit mail for postmaster for domain level MAIL FROM:/RCPT TO: blocks, but I'm not a sendmail wizard. -- Jason Fesler jfesler@calweb.com 'whois jf319' | When the chips are down Admin, CalWeb Internet Services www.calweb.com | The buffalo's empty Junk email returned in bulk; 1 cc to your postmaster | Junk mail probs? http://www.gigo.com/junkmail.htm | :-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 09:06:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA24945 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:06:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA24932; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05868; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:59:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:59:19 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Stephen McKay , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: reverse DNS not all bad In-Reply-To: <199711281239.EAA10581@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org DOH! > hub jmb[167] nslookup 202.54.12.3 > Server: who.cdrom.com > Address: 204.216.27.3 > > Name: mbg.vsnl.net.in.in-addr.arpa > Address: 202.54.12.3 It resolves, but that's wrong, they forgot the "." after mbg.vsn1.net in the zone file... Charles > > jmb > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 09:23:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25675 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25665; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:23:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711281723.JAA25665@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: reverse DNS not all bad To: spork@super-g.com (spork) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:23:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "spork" at Nov 28, 97 11:59:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org spork wrote: > > DOH! > > > hub jmb[167] nslookup 202.54.12.3 > > Server: who.cdrom.com > > Address: 204.216.27.3 > > > > Name: mbg.vsnl.net.in.in-addr.arpa > > Address: 202.54.12.3 > > It resolves, but that's wrong, they forgot the "." after mbg.vsn1.net in > the zone file... > unlike cars, DNS does not come with seatbelts and airbags. this is a good thing. ;) live and learn. i had to instruct a uunet tech support person in DNS file syntax last year. ;( From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 09:38:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA26829 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:38:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26823 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:37:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from gjallarhorn.ifi.uio.no (2602@gjallarhorn.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.40]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id SAA20891 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:37:47 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by gjallarhorn.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:37:46 +0100 (MET) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <19971126204207.18278@klemm.gtn.com> Organization: FMKY X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 28 Nov 1997 18:37:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: Andreas Klemm's message of Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:42:07 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 137 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andreas Klemm writes: > Someone other with such "demon stories" ?! ;-) From: karl@ima.ima.isc.com (Karl Heuer) Subject: Godless devil-worshiping evil computers Keywords: funny, unix, originally appeared in 1989 Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny.reruns Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 7:20:05 EDT Resent-From: ksr!warren@harvard.harvard.edu (If you don't understand the T-shirt image, look at your copy of "The Design and Implementation of the 4.3BSD UNIX Operating System" by Leffler, et. al.) Resent-From: Charles Forsythe This was sent to me by Linda Branagan -- Convex doc. writer and Connie Dobbs look-alike. I think its an excellent illustration of why "Bob" began his mission in Dallas. ==================================================== The following is a true story. Last week I walked into a local "home style cookin' restaurant/watering hole" to pick up a take out order. I spoke briefly to the waitress behind the counter, who told me my order would be done in a few minutes. So, while I was busy gazing at the farm implements hanging on the walls, I was approached by two, uh, um... well, let's call them "natives". These guys might just be the *original* Texas rednecks -- complete with ten-gallon hats, snakeskin boots and the pervasive odor of cheap beer and whiskey. "Pardon us, ma'am. Mind of we ask you a question?" Well, people keep telling me that Texans are real friendly, so I nodded. "Are you a Satanist?" Well, at least they didn't ask me if I liked to party. "Uh, no, I can't say that I am." "Gee ma'am. Are you *sure* about that?" they asked. I put on my biggest, brightest Dallas Cowboys cheerleader smile and said, "No, I'm positive. The closest I've ever come to Satanism is watching Geraldo." "Hmm. Interesting. See, we was just wondering why it is you have the lord of darkness on your chest there." I was this close to slapping one of them and causing a scene -- then I stopped and noticed the T-shirt I happened to be wearing that day. Sure enough, it had a picture of a small, devilish looking creature that has for quite some time now been associated with a certain operating system. In this particular representation, the creature was wearing sneakers. They continued: "See, ma'am, we don't exactly *appreciate* it when people show off pictures of the devil. Especially when he's lookin' so friendly." These idiots sounded terrifyingly serious. Me: "Oh, well, see, this isn't really the devil, it's just, well, it's sort of a mascot." Native: "And what kind of football team has the devil as a mascot?" Me: "Oh, it's not a team. It's an operating-- uh, a kind of computer." I figured that an ATM machine was about as much technology as these guys could handle, and I knew that if I so much as uttered the word "unix" I would only make things worse. Native: "Where does this satanical computer come from?" Me: "California. And there's nothing satanical about it really." Somewhere along the line here, the waitress has noticed my predicament -- but these guys probably outweighed her by 600 pounds, so all she did was look at me sympathetically and run off into the kitchen. Native: "Ma'am, I think you're lying. And we'd appreciate it if you'd leave the premises now." Fortunately, the waitress returned that very instant with my order, and they agreed that it would be okay for me to actually pay for my food before I left. While I was at the cash register, they amused themselves by talking to each other. Native #1: "Do you think the police know about these devil computers?" Native #2: "If they come from California, then the FBI oughta know about 'em." They escorted me to the door. I tried one last time: "You're really blowing this all out of proportion. A lot of people use this `kind of computers.' Universities, researchers, businesses. They're actually very useful." Big, big, BIG mistake. I should have guessed at what came next. Native: "Does the government use these devil computers?" Me: "Yes." Another BIG boo-boo. Native: "And does the government *pay* for 'em? With *our* tax dollars?" I decided that it was time to jump ship. Me: "No. Nope. Not at all. You're tax dollars never entered the picture at all. I promise. No sir, not a penny. Our good Christian congressmen would never let something like that happen. Nope. Never. Bye." Texas. What a country. -- >From the RHF archives as selected by Brad Templeton, Maddi Hausmann and Jim Griffith. This newsgroup posts former jokes from the newsgroup rec.humor.funny. Visit http://comedy.clari.net/rhf to browse the RHF pages and archives on the web. This newsgroup does not accept submissions. See rec.humor.funny for that. -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 11:45:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA04009 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:45:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from myname.my.domain (pm3-1-8.stratos.net [209.81.153.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03999 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:45:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drifter@stratos.net) Received: from stratos.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by myname.my.domain (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01367 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:45:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <347F1F38.C3F9B3E5@stratos.net> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:44:58 -0500 From: Drifter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 14:20:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12684 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:20:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12575 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:19:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsdchat@shadows.aeon.net) Received: (from bsdchat@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id AAA24192 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:22:17 +0200 (EET) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199711282222.AAA24192@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: annoying spammers... To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:22:17 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org uh, i think this would go best here on chat, it's an isp issue too, but not really, i dunno. anyway, just a question if anyone else have noticed that their domain has been used in spamming. i mean, not as a relay, but as a NAME. uh, we've getting lots, lots and lots of rejected mail, complains and all that shit at my work, after someone has been spamming thru servers around the planet (several of them) with a randomish sender address from our domain. uh, that's most fucking, pardon me, annoying. i'm confident that no mail has gone thru either of our sendmails, no other machine there even has one. should i assume it's a hostile attack? or just someone using the domain kinda randomly? (back in summer before i worked there we were used as a relay, first thing i did was to install anti-relay rulesets, and it ended stone dead, until last weekend. ofcourse i freaked and thought something got passed, but i found no evidence whatsoever someone could get anything thru without non local ip, and routers block non local ips complitely) after i got one spam mail where another .fi domain (yes, i am from finland) was used as a NAME, not as a relay (boy do i know lots of open mail servers in finland, but it's another issue) and started to wonder that maybe it's a custom for spammers nowadays... anyone? has the situation gotten _THAT_ bad? generally, is there anything more i could do? kill anyone? yes, we already fax-flooded at least one of the firms used as a relay for not having a secure mailserver... mickey "yes, i'm fucking frustrated" From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 14:34:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13444 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13439 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: (from luomat@localhost) by luomat.peak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07135; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:33:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711282233.RAA07135@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) X-Image-URL: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/luomat@peak.org.tiff In-Reply-To: <199711282222.AAA24192@shadows.aeon.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.1) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148.RR) From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Fri, 28 Nov 97 17:33:31 -0500 To: mika ruohotie Subject: Re: annoying spammers... cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199711282222.AAA24192@shadows.aeon.net> X-Image-URL-Disclaimer: hey, it's off my student ID, gimme a break ;-) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Author: mika ruohotie Original-Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:22:17 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <199711282222.AAA24192@shadows.aeon.net> > anyway, just a question if anyone else have noticed that their > domain has been used in spamming. i mean, not as a relay, but as > a NAME. There is an email list for just this sort of thing.... Send a message to 'LISTSERV@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM' with the body SUBSCRIBE SPAM-L mika ruohotie Domain forging is a serious issue. The AOL admin is on that list, and he and others can tell you what is the proper thing to do. TjL ps -- annoying spammer is doubly redundant ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 20:46:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02801 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super.zippo.com (perry.zippo.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02775 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:46:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reyesf@super.zippo.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by super.zippo.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) id UAA08368; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:45:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711290445.UAA08368@super.zippo.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" , "kdulzo@caffeine.internal.enteract.com" , "Remy NONNENMACHER" Date: Fri, 28 Nov 97 23:45:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: rc564 on SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Moved to chat. >> Answers one question I had. However the second is how exactly would one >> switch teams. >Switching team is quiet easy since reconfigurating client can be done. >About JFUG, it seems to be more difficult: their Web site is all Japan 8----O. Actually there are two ways to be part of a team. You can change the team to which your email address is attributed or you can send your blocks and report them by using the email address of the team. I find it best to change the team to which your stats are attributed, this way you can see how many blocks you do. I don't recall exact steps and the server screen is not available (they are re-computing), but it is something like: Search stats by email address. Select account maintenance (it may not be those exact words, but it is something simmilar). You will be asked for you password. The next screen asks for which team you want to contribute your blocks to. Japan FreeBSD user's group is 1277 Team FreeBSD is 988 >>And practically which should be joined? I was originally on Team FreeBSD and switched to Japan FreeBSD user's group. They have a shot at becoming the largest daily block contributor. On either case I think the stats sum all the blocks of all the teams for each platform. I think it is better to have one big team than to have many smaller ones. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 28 21:25:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05344 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:25:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05327 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:24:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA25808; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:54:39 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19971129155438.60843@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:54:38 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: mika ruohotie Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... References: <199711282222.AAA24192@shadows.aeon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711282222.AAA24192@shadows.aeon.net>; from mika ruohotie on Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 12:22:17AM +0200 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 12:22:17AM +0200, mika ruohotie wrote: > uh, i think this would go best here on chat, it's an isp issue too, > but not really, i dunno. > > anyway, just a question if anyone else have noticed that their > domain has been used in spamming. i mean, not as a relay, but as > a NAME. Yes, it happened to me last night. Something in uunet was using my mail servers (freebie.lemis.com and allegro.lemis.com) to send out spam. I stopped the mail server on allegro (which is really just running a high-pri MX), and left these headers in the spool: V2 T880710622 K880717164 N5 P1114943 I0/4/731 MDeferred: 451 ... Domain must resolve $rSMTP $sALLEGRO.LEMIS.COM $_1Cust80.tnt18.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.118.80] S RPFD: H?P?Return-Path: HReceived: from ALLEGRO.LEMIS.COM (1Cust80.tnt18.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.118.80]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA15710; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:20:22 +1030 (CST) H?D?Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:20:22 +1030 (CST) H?F?From: WebSecrets@WebSecrets.Net H?M?Message-Id: <199711280950.UAA15710@allegro.lemis.com> HSubject: Search Engine Secrets . I installed hub's version of sendmail.cf, added WebSecrets.Net and SecretsOfTheNet.Com (another one) to the black list. They tried again, were rejected, and apparently gave up. I've sent complaints to uunet--let's see how far they get. > mickey "yes, i'm fucking frustrated" Yup, I was pretty angry, too. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 29 11:18:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15361 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:18:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15357 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:18:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-27.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.27]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA14354; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:18:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA00994; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:50:07 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711291850.MAA00994@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dg@root.com cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: releng22 In-reply-to: Message from David Greenman of "Fri, 28 Nov 1997 23:10:48 PST." <199711290710.XAA27797@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:50:07 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Greenman wrties: > >>FTP throughput from releng22.FreeBSD.org has been very poor lately. > >>Is something wrong with it? > > > > I've seen a variety of complaints from people trying to move bits between > >Canada<->USA...I don't what the problem is, though. > > "...I don't know what the problem is" > I sure have been having a lot of trouble writing complete sentences > recently. :-( /usr/games/fortune says: f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. Didn't have any trouble reading that, or David's original posting. But I'm still having trouble with this: f u cn rd ths, itn tyg h myxbl cd. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 29 12:17:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18782 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:17:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from foo.bar.com (F210-038.net.wisc.edu [144.92.210.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18773 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:17:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jesse@foo.bar.com) Received: from localhost (jesse@localhost) by foo.bar.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA00576; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 02:18:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 02:18:29 -0600 (CST) From: "jtkipp@students.wisc.edu" Reply-To: zaphod@imailbox.com To: Atipa cc: Jerry Hicks , de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Atipa wrote: > > > > Someone other with such "demon stories" ?! ;-) > > > > > > > Satan's *true* form is a penguin :) > Uh oh... Linux's Logo is a penguin... I think this whole Satanism thing _is_ going to end up pointing back at FreeBSD... > > Jerry Hicks > > jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com > > Now the "Bud Light" commercials make sense... Doobie Doobie Doobie! > We can run, be we can't hide! > > Kevin > Jesse Kipp Jtkipp@students.wisc.edu zaphod@imailbox.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 29 18:03:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06476 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:03:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic18.pm01.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06466 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA01958; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:03:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971129180327.17079@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:03:27 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A test. Please ignore Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A test please ignore -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 29 21:35:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17921 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:35:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17916 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:35:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from obie [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xc22K-0002uk-00; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:35:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3480FD6F.167EB0E7@xmission.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:45:19 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > I think people shouldn't be too put out by these occasional incidents. > There are some good ones about texas rednecks and "we just wanted to > know what the lord of darkness was doing on your chest, Maam?" which > involve our little mascot and go back several decades. If it proves > anything at all, it's that there are still religious elements in > various western societies who'd probably be a lot happier living in > someplace like Iran and should probably move there at the first > opportunity. :) Yup. I have a sticker in the back window of my car (actually a Toyota 4x4 with a shell) from my ISP. They're pretty much a bunch of tech- heads stuck (by their own choice) here behind the "Zion Curtain." Some of the locals don't take to kindly to my window sticker, which reads "God uses UNIX." My fellow churchmembers don't seem to mind. ;^) Tangential story: the first two UNIX systems back at dear old Clyde/Raxco/Axent, which was chock full of BYU graduates, were named Ebed and Melech. Two netdollars to the first contributor who say why they were given such odd names. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 29 21:38:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18036 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:38:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA18032 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:37:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from obie [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xc24i-0003Ck-00; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:37:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3480FE03.2781E494@xmission.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:47:47 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: No! Crapintosh bashing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Porter writes: > Ahhhhh, I feel better now. I hope I don't get banished off these mailing > lists for this, but I had to say it. I don't have anything against *people* > who use crapintoshes, I just can't understand why they would want to. Here's > my major grievences: > > 1:) I've heard they're hard to upgrade. I've never tried, so this could be > totally wrong It is. They're a piece of cake to upgrade, modern Macs come with both SCSI and PCI built in. All RAM is SIMM or DIMM, and was long before the PC crowd discovered them. The quality of the physical case is much better than the average PC as well; you rarely need *any* tools to open a Mac. > 2:) Although I've heard that the PowerPC chip is *very* good (hey, it's made > by Motorola and IBM, it's got to be at least pretty good!) Comparing same > software on same price systems, and similar chip-clock-rate systems yields > better results on IBM compatibles (my tests and my friends) If you're comparing MacOS figures, probably not. If you stick a decent* OS on there and compare Apples to PCs, the performance difference is remarkable. 180 Mhz 604s seem might fast compared to any Pentium, and a 350 Mhz 604 blows through Pentium IIs. > 3:) Crapintoshes used to have superior graphing abilities. Not anymore. Yes anymore. You can get some decent stuff for PCs these days, but not without working at it. You can get Mac graphic cards that support 1600 x 1200 x 24 bit, and all you have to do is plug it in and run an "enabler" program. That's it. Unless, of course, you're trying to find an X driver* for it. > 4:) NO SHELL USE!!! AACK!! My friend (a Crapintosh supporter) says you can > buy software for shells. Hmmmm....I've never heard of any. Why would you want to do that? Just install MacBSD (basically NetBSD) or MkLinux. Makes a formerly silly Macintosh into one screaming fast workstation. Caveats: this is not the world's most popular computing platform, nor the strongest supported version of NetBSD or Linux. Find X drivers for Mac video cards is really hard; XFree86 doesn't seem very interested. On the other tentacle, you can get some really blistering performance out of these puppies. Or, you can get BeOS, if you're object-oriented enough. ;^) Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing for the Macintosh as the ultimate computing platform. I hate one-button mice and think they're still overpriced, but they are nowhere near as bad as most "PC dweebs" make them out to be, and still a damn site better than any Microsloth offering, regardless of the hardware it's running on. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 29 21:55:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18974 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:55:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA18968 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:55:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from obie [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xc2M1-0005gf-00; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:55:41 -0700 Message-ID: <34810233.446B9B3D@xmission.com> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 23:05:39 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: grog@lemis.com CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Happy thanksgiving Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Thu, Nov 27, 1997 at 10:07:51PM -0600, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > On Nov 11, 1997 at 02:42:22PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >>> According to Jonathan Lemon: > >>>> And on a more personal note, I'm thankful to announce a new arrival: > >>>> > >>>> Diana Kostrubala Lemon, born 11/26/97, 9#, 19.5". > >>> > >>> Congratulations! > >>> > >>> Life will be ... interesting with 3 girls in a few years :-) > >> > >> No kidding. Better buy a shotgun now, before the prices go up. :-) > > > > Maybe I'll just have them take karate classes when they get older. :-) > > Ask my daughter. She prefers Tae Kwon Do, Funny, my daughter prefers drooling. But then again, she's only 20 months old. ;^) Congratuations, Jonathan, and all you other FreeBSD-Daddies & Mommies! I spent yesterday and today hanging Christmas lights (300 of them) all along the front of our house, a first for me. It was worth climbing a ladder nearly 100 times when I took Bailey out after dark to show her the lights. She actually said "Oooh, Da!" -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 29 22:59:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21846 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:59:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA21842 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:59:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id IAA10001; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:58:13 +0200 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA00712; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:58:54 +0200 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:58:54 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Wes Peters cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-Reply-To: <3480FD6F.167EB0E7@xmission.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Wes Peters wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > I think people shouldn't be too put out by these occasional > incidents. > > There are some good ones about texas rednecks and "we just wanted to > > know what the lord of darkness was doing on your chest, Maam?" which > > involve our little mascot and go back several decades. If it proves > > anything at all, it's that there are still religious elements in > > various western societies who'd probably be a lot happier living in > > someplace like Iran and should probably movethere at the first > > opportunity. :) > > Yup. I have a sticker in the back window of my car (actually a Toyota > 4x4 with a shell) from my ISP. They're pretty much a bunch of tech- > heads stuck (by their own choice) here behind the "Zion Curtain." Some > of the locals don't take to kindly to my window sticker, which reads > "God uses UNIX." My fellow churchmembers don't seem to mind. ;^) > > Tangential story: the first two UNIX systems back at dear old > Clyde/Raxco/Axent, which was chock full of BYU graduates, were named > Ebed and Melech. Two netdollars to the first contributor who say why > they were given such odd names. ;^) Well, seems obvious: There was some kind of client/server or master/slave relationship between them??? (for those wondering, melech is Hebrew for king, and Eved - Hebrew for slave). > > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters > Softweyr LLC > http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr > softweyr@xmission.com > Nadav