From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 22 20:44:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09152 for doc-outgoing; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web0.netis.com (majordomo@web0.netis.com [198.186.186.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09145 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by web0.netis.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09174 for auctions-invite-list; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:06:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: web0.netis.com: majordomo set sender to owner-auctions-invite@maillist.netis.com using -f Received: from localhost (seek-admin@localhost) by web0.netis.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09155 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:03:28 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:03:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AuctionSeek/AuctionFind X-Sender: seek-admin@web0.netis.com To: auctions-invite@auctionweb.com Subject: Finding Auctions On the Net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you're interested in finding auctions or auctioneers on the Web, either the online kind (where you place your bids by email or on their web page) or the "conventional" kind (where you attend the auction and give your bids to the auctioneer) drop by our new (and free) Worldwide Auctions Search Service at http://www.auctionseek.com. From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 23 00:24:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA18584 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18579; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07988; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:23:37 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199706230723.IAA07988@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Steve Howe cc: freebsd-questions , freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Handbook - ascii form?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Jun 1997 16:22:07 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:23:37 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Download http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook.ascii The only thing that's missing here is a link from http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html freebsd-doc has been cc'd. Can we make the link ? > i think everyone is missing the point! > no one is looking for instructions on how-to > generate an ASCII Handbook on a BSD machine! > > some of us wish an ASCII version was available > > 1. for DOS users that can't "col -b" and > "more" with highlights they don't have, etc. > > 2. for people they don't like clicking around > HTML pages for little bits (hard to print also). > > 3. for people that aren't doing postscript. > > i think it is rude when people are FORCED to make do > with proprietary/non-ASCII formats. the government, > for example forces you to have MS Word to read > their docs or apply for some things. > > ASCII can be read by any computer/OS, > and i think all docs should contain at > least one ASCII version. > ------------------------------------------------- > FingerPrint BA09868C 1B995204 58410FD3 A5E7B2DA > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/way/7747 > ------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 23 01:05:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA20467 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20441; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09485; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:03:38 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199706230803.JAA09485@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Annelise Anderson cc: Chuck Robey , Brian Somers , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , kleon@bellsouth.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Handbook - ascii form?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:09:06 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:03:38 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [cc'd also to -questions & -doc] > On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > OK, there's one problem with that. I think that the ftp server is letting > > folks download handbook.ascii as ascii text, which is eating the backspace > > keys. Gotta download this as binary! > > That's right, if it's downloaded as a binary file it retains the ^H etc. > formatting codes; otherwise it doesn't. Which brings us back to the question. Why does .ascii have non-ascii characters. A diff between .latin1 and .ascii says that only the '-' at the end of lines is missing in the .ascii version :( Surely .latin1 should have the overstrikes and .ascii shouldn't ? Is this a "sgml" bug ? > Annelise > -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 23 08:06:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA08216 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ulmus.sdi.slu.se (ulmus.sdi.slu.se [130.238.100.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA08207 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ulmus.sdi.slu.se (ulmus.sdi.slu.se [130.238.100.190]) by ulmus.sdi.slu.se (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA16387; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:06:02 +0200 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:06:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johan Hofvander To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG cc: archive@ftp1.sunet.se Subject: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook298.html Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I noticed that we ain't listed among the mirror sites in sweden (ftp2.se.freebsd.org), although it seems as we are the most complete one... /Johan (ftp.sunet.se) From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 23 08:15:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA08662 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08640; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06556; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:14:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:14:37 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: Brian Somers cc: Annelise Anderson , Chuck Robey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , kleon@bellsouth.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Handbook - ascii form?? In-Reply-To: <199706230803.JAA09485@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > [cc'd also to -questions & -doc] > > > On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > > OK, there's one problem with that. I think that the ftp server is letting > > > folks download handbook.ascii as ascii text, which is eating the backspace > > > keys. Gotta download this as binary! > > > > That's right, if it's downloaded as a binary file it retains the ^H etc. > > formatting codes; otherwise it doesn't. > > Which brings us back to the question. Why does .ascii have non-ascii > characters. A diff between .latin1 and .ascii says that only the > '-' at the end of lines is missing in the .ascii version :( Surely > .latin1 should have the overstrikes and .ascii shouldn't ? > > Is this a "sgml" bug ? Okay, lets get this straight: 1) ^H >>IS<< ASCII. 2) A underscore followed by a ^H, followed by a letter is a common idiom for creating underlining that originates in the days of typewriters and teletypes. The idiom is widely, but not universally supported. 3) Simlarly, a letter followed by a ^H, followed by the same letter is a common idiom for creating boldface. 4) The non-HTML renditions of the handbook/FAQ come from groff which uses these idioms for underlining and boldface. This ^H debate has >>nothing<< to do with SGML. 5) The difference between the .ascii and .latin1 generated by sgmlfmt(1) is that the former uses only 7-bit codes, while the latter uses ISO 8859-1 encoding for characters above 128. The differences show up in a few of our authors names that use diacritics, bulleted lists have bullets instead of lower case o, automatic hyphenation uses a soft-hyphen (AD) rather than a regular hyphen*, and probabaly some other odds and ends. 6) If the ^H is missing from a downloaded file, chances are it got stripped rogue software. Claims were made that this did indeed happen, but I don't believe the details of the software used were mentioned--these are essential things to provide with any bug report. 7) col -b is the most reliable way to undo the underline/boldface that groff does, but it will not work if the ^H characters got eaten in transit. 8) Earlier versions of sgmlfmt(1) sent all groff output through col -b by default. If there is a consensus that this would be better, it is trivial to change. ...and now back to your regularly scheduled broadcast... -john * This could be considered a bug because there is little agreement on the correct handling of the character. From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 23 09:26:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA12040 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA12018; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0wgBva-0005pr-00; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:25:18 -0600 To: John Fieber Subject: Re: Handbook - ascii form?? Cc: Brian Somers , Annelise Anderson , Chuck Robey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , kleon@bellsouth.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:14:37 CDT." References: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:25:18 -0600 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message John Fieber writes: : 6) If the ^H is missing from a downloaded file, chances are it : got stripped rogue software. Claims were made that this : did indeed happen, but I don't believe the details of the : software used were mentioned--these are essential things to : provide with any bug report. I believe that the FTP standard states that ASCII mode is for text files that are a series of non-control characters followed by a line terminator. These files are then to be translated into a cononical form, sent over the wire, and then translated back. All this translation tends to be bad for anything that isn't in the range [32,126]. The file downloads fine with BINARY mode. Warner From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 23 14:12:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA00768 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00734; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA07306; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:09:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:09:00 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Warner Losh cc: Brian Somers , Annelise Anderson , Chuck Robey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , kleon@bellsouth.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Does FTP mangle ^H? (was Re: Handbook - ascii form??) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > In message John Fieber writes: > : 6) If the ^H is missing from a downloaded file, chances are it > : got stripped rogue software. Claims were made that this > : did indeed happen, but I don't believe the details of the > : software used were mentioned--these are essential things to > : provide with any bug report. > > I believe that the FTP standard states that ASCII mode is for text > files that are a series of non-control characters followed by a line > terminator. >From RFC 959, describing ASCII transmission: The sender converts the data from an internal character representation to the standard 8-bit NVT-ASCII representation (see the Telnet specification). The receiver will convert the data from the standard form to his own internal form. In accordance with the NVT standard, the sequence should be used where necessary to denote the end of a line of text. (See the discussion of file structure at the end of the Section on Data Representation and Storage.) This says nothing about treatment of control characters beyond that line endings, if present, should be CRLF. The referenced telnet specification defines what a client should do upon receiving a ^H, which implies that a ^H should be able pass from the server to the client through NVT-ASCII intact. The FTP specification itself defines specific meanings of a variety of ASCII control characters for an optional variant of the ASCII mode which also implies they should come through the pipe intact. I've tried transfering the files in question using ASCII mode with several ftp clients and in all cases, the ^H characters come through intact. Can someone point to some *specific* ftp clients that strip the ^H in ASCII mode? Puzzled :-/ -john From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 23 15:36:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05119 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05114; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15040(5)>; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:35:50 PDT Received: by crevenia.parc.xerox.com id <177512>; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:35:39 -0700 From: Bill Fenner To: imp@village.org, jfieber@indiana.edu Subject: Re: Does FTP mangle ^H? (was Re: Handbook - ascii form??) Cc: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, brian@awfulhak.org, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, kleon@bellsouth.net Message-Id: <97Jun23.153539pdt.177512@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:35:36 PDT Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Can someone point to some *specific* ftp >clients that strip the ^H in ASCII mode? Well, netscrape displays the document as if it didn't have ^H's, but keeps the ^H's if you save it. Bill From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 24 23:16:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03930 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from giasbm01.vsnl.net.in (giasbm01.vsnl.net.in [202.54.1.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03925 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from md2.vsnl.net.in ([202.54.6.102]) by giasbm01.vsnl.net.in (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03780 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:46:14 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <33B0C120.34A9645C@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:26:33 +0530 From: sachin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: need help X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sir, i was not able to download free bsd documents. from any of the ftp server. can u help me what exactly i have to do to download the document. regards sachin From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 25 11:29:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07284 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07277; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15665; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:28:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:28:51 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Francisco Reyes cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD Chat , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD documentation (was: OS/2 users going to FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <199706251633.MAA24988@federation.addy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Now that I have a bit more knowledge I lack the time, and still don't > know how to contribute to the doc project. In particular it should be > easy to find the location of the existing documents, how changes > should be submited (including an example on using diff) and to who > they should be submited. A template SGML file would also be very > helpful (if SGML is still been used) I'll see what I can do to documenting and streamline the submission policy. The best info at the moment is http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html, but it isn't very prominent and could use a lot more "how to" information. It may be better to de-emphasize issues of document format. If the *content* is good, I really don't care what the format is--SGML tagging is fairly mindless work. Unfortunatly, good programming skill and good technical writing skill seem to be mutually exclusive in practice. The FreeBSD crowd tends to have a lot more programmers than writers. -john From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 25 12:08:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09063 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09049; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slip129-37-112-181.pa.us.ibm.net (slip129-37-112-181.pa.us.ibm.net [129.37.112.181]) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA07603; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706251908.PAA07603@federation.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSD Chat List" Cc: "doc@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 15:11:28 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD documentation (was: OS/2 users going to FreeBSD?) Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:28:51 -0500 (EST), John Fieber wrote: >On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: >I'll see what I can do to documenting and streamline the >submission policy. I think a template SGML document and a documented sample would go a long way. Last time I tried I remember I downloaded some of the existing SGML and could not make much sense of them. >The best info at the moment is http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html, but it isn't very prominent >and could use a lot more "how to" information. The page is actually not bad at all, but I am wondering if there shouldn't be more prominence on the pages that direct users on how to help the project. I am sure that somewhere in the FAQ and Handbook it points out to that docproj page, but why not have right there in the main "www.freebsd.org". How about a page with links on how to help: the "How to Help the FreeBSD project page". This page could simply be links to sections of the FAQ and Handbook. >It may be better to de-emphasize issues of document format. If >the *content* is good, I really don't care what the format >is--SGML tagging is fairly mindless work. True, but it still takes time (your time or someone's elses time). I still think that a documented SGML template can go a long way. >Unfortunatly, good programming skill and good technical writing skill seem to be >mutually exclusive in practice. I am sure there are many people like myself, who are neither great at either, but are willing to improve at both. It is taking me a long time to get truly familiar with FreeBSD, but little by little I find myself doing a little more every day on it. I am even thinking of trying to use it for all my Internet needs (currently using OS/2 for that). >The FreeBSD crowd tends to have a lot more programmers than writers. This is going back to the "Desktop vs Server" issue. If FreeBSD is mostly used as a server then the people who use it will be mostly technical. If we can get it to be a bit easier to use then we may get many more people to use it as a desktop and THOSE are the people who may help us with the writing. From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 25 12:33:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10423 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10413 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slip129-37-112-181.pa.us.ibm.net (slip129-37-112-181.pa.us.ibm.net [129.37.112.181]) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA09702; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706251932.PAA09702@federation.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "John Fieber" , "FreeBSD Doc Mailing List." Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 15:35:13 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: docproj.html problems with links Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just tried to download the latest source for the handbook from docproj.html and it said the file or directory doesn't exist. Tried the FAQ and got the same too. I was trying to get this because I just experienced installing X-Free86 (first tried ports and ran out of space, then got binaries) and thought I would write a bit on that for the handbook while it is fresh on my mind (the page on the handbook is empty). From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 25 13:19:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12154 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12137 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slip129-37-112-181.pa.us.ibm.net (slip129-37-112-181.pa.us.ibm.net [129.37.112.181]) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA13295; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706252017.QAA13295@federation.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSD Doc Mailing List." , "Dave H." Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 16:20:16 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: documentation Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:14:44 -0400 (EDT), Dave H. wrote: >I would be willing to help with this where I can. If you are interested in helping with documentation see http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html Also subscribe to the doc mailing list. Send email to: majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG In body of message: subscribe freebsd-doc My advice is to document or improve documentation on things you have recently dealt with and found the documentation could be improved. For instance I just spent the last couple of days getting XFree86-3.3 installed. Today I looked at the handbook and the section on X is pretty much empty so I am going to try to work on that topic. From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 25 17:56:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA24050 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24045; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA17198; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:56:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:56:13 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Francisco Reyes cc: FreeBSD Chat List , "doc@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: FreeBSD documentation (was: OS/2 users going to FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <199706251908.PAA07603@federation.addy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I think a template SGML document and a documented sample would go a > long way. Last time I tried I remember I downloaded some of the > existing SGML and could not make much sense of them. After your first post, I actually started sketching one out. That combined with a cookbook of common markup structures (lists, examples, computer terms, cross referneces, footnotes, etc.) would be good. > >It may be better to de-emphasize issues of document format. If > >the *content* is good, I really don't care what the format > >is--SGML tagging is fairly mindless work. > > True, but it still takes time (your time or someone's elses time). I > still think that a documented SGML template can go a long way. It takes time, but nowhere near the time it takes to fix up incoherent content. :) -john From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 25 18:14:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA24961 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24952 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA17242; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:14:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:14:32 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Francisco Reyes cc: "FreeBSD Doc Mailing List." Subject: Re: docproj.html problems with links In-Reply-To: <199706251932.PAA09702@federation.addy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I just tried to download the latest source for the handbook from > docproj.html and it said the file or directory doesn't exist. Tried > the FAQ and got the same too. Humph. The docs moved and I forgot to update the link. There are a variety of ways to get them, but the ftp address is: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/doc I've committed the fix to the web page so it should appear on the next update cycle. -john From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 25 23:46:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA07161 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk (ragnet.demon.co.uk [158.152.46.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07156 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dmlb@localhost) by ragnet.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA06190 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:47:42 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:47:42 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay Message-Id: <199706260647.HAA06190@ragnet.demon.co.uk> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD documentation Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > I think a template SGML document and a documented sample would go a > > long way. Last time I tried I remember I downloaded some of the > > existing SGML and could not make much sense of them. > > After your first post, I actually started sketching one out. > That combined with a cookbook of common markup structures (lists, > examples, computer terms, cross referneces, footnotes, etc.) > would be good. John, I need this! I'm putting together the inn+suck howto and am finding that docbook is okay. Actually finding the "right" things to use is a little hard with the current state of docbook's own documentation! If you need a guinea pig/comments of a docbook newbie can you send me a draft. > > > >It may be better to de-emphasize issues of document format. If > > >the *content* is good, I really don't care what the format > > >is--SGML tagging is fairly mindless work. > > > > True, but it still takes time (your time or someone's elses time). I > > still think that a documented SGML template can go a long way. > > It takes time, but nowhere near the time it takes to fix up > incoherent content. :) > I guess that there are a lot of people who are computer literate and run FreeBSD at home and are very capable of writing in SGML, but haven't got the resources (time, money for books, inclination) to really get to know yet another text processing language. e.g. I have written lots in LaTeX and have all the books, but I dont want to get an SGML book! Duncan ________________________________________________________________________ Raggy | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jun 26 00:30:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA08578 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08567; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postbox.india.hp.com (postbox.india.hp.com [15.10.45.1]) by palrel1.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA03116; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706260729.AAA03116@palrel1.hp.com> Received: from localhost by postbox.india.hp.com with ESMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA046470156; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:59:16 +0530 To: nik@blueberry.co.uk, jfieber@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Upgrade tutorial Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:59:16 +0530 From: "\"\"A. Joseph Koshy\"\"" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Thanks to Nik for the excellent tutorial. I have some small observations to make: 1) Its probably worth emphasising the need to backup before attempting an install. 2) At times I have seen the need for upgrading /kernel to the current releases. This is necessary for tools that `know' about kernel internals (like `ps'); I've even seen problems due to `mount' (when moving from Pre-Lite2 merge to post-Lite2). So I would suggest the following section between `8' and `9': Before rebooting you should remake your kernel to be compatible with your newly built system. To do this you need to run `config': # cd /usr/src/sys/i386/conf # config GENERIC If you have your own kernel configuration file instead of the default `GENERIC', you should use that instead of GENERIC. `config' will inform you of the compilation directory it created for you. `cd' to this directory and run `make' # cd ../../compile/GENERIC # make Make should complete successfully. Save your current kernel # cp /kernel /kernel.safe { or whatever name you wish } Do not use the name `kernel.old' as the make install step below will overwrite it. Install your new kernel # make install You should be ready to reboot now. In case you have any problems with your new kernel, you can reboot using your saved kernel by specifying the name of the saved kernel (in this example `kernel.safe') at the bootloader prompt. Thanks for taking the initiative to produce an excellent tutorial. Koshy My Personal Opinions Only. From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jun 26 07:24:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA23458 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tapti.hss.hns.com (tapti.hss.hns.com [139.85.242.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23442 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from valhalla.hss.hns.com (valhalla.hss.hns.com [139.85.242.85]) by tapti.hss.hns.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26312 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:50:29 +0500 (IST) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:50:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Kapil Chowksey X-Sender: jaeger@valhalla.hss.hns.com To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: mmap(2) errata Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The manpage entry for mmap(2) mentions MAP_FAILED as the return value for unsuccessful calls - unfortunately this isn't #defined in any of the system wide include files. I'm using 2.2.1-RELEASE. -- Kapil Chowksey kchowksey@hss.hns.com From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jun 28 09:56:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA26661 for doc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iphys.rnd.runnet.ru (iphys.rnd.runnet.ru [195.208.248.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26637 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wetal.iphys.rnd.runnet.ru (wetal.iphys.rnd.runnet.ru [195.208.249.162]) by iphys.rnd.runnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01410 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 20:53:46 +0400 (MSD) Message-ID: <33B541BB.3FFC@iphys.rnd.runnet.ru> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 20:54:19 +0400 From: Witaly Ousanov Organization: SRI physics RSU X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Send me please Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Send me please FreeBSD Documentation. render thanks Witaly Ousanov wetal@iphys.rnd.runnet.ru From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jun 28 15:39:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07022 for doc-outgoing; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07017 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.5/8.8.5/frmug-2.0) with UUCP id AAA06206 for doc@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:39:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from charnier@localhost) by xp11.frmug.org (8.8.5/8.8.5/xp11-uucp-1.1) id QAA04918; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 16:03:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 16:03:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199706281403.QAA04918@xp11.frmug.org> From: Philippe Charnier MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: incorrect translation of X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under Emacs 19.34.1 Reply-To: charnier@xp11.frmug.org Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, looking at the handbook ``Checking Printer Communications'' in printing.sgml I saw that is incorrectly translated to <hr>
. 
follows the same rule. This put a lot of `
' in the final document.

(search for the word `suffice' in printing.sgml)

In /usr/share/sgml/transpec/linuxdoc-html.ts:



  CODE

  ^<hr><pre>^
  ^</pre><hr>^



In /usr/bin/sgmlfmt:

    while (<$infile>) {
        # change `<' and `>' to `<' and `>' in 

        if (/
/.../<\/pre>/) {
            s//<\1pre>/g;
            s/>/\>/g;
            s/<([\/]*)pre\>/<\1pre>/g;
        }
  
-- 
------                                                            ------ 
Philippe Charnier                               charnier@lirmm.fr (smtp)       
                                          charnier@xp11.frmug.org (uucp) 

    ``a PC not running FreeBSD is like a venusian with no tentacles'' 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From owner-freebsd-doc  Sat Jun 28 20:25:43 1997
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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:21:24 -0400
From: Mark Mayo 
To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org
Subject: screen shots from pcvt?
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Hi there. I was wondering if there is anyway of getting a screen shot
straight from the pcvt console? I checked in the pcvt and screen man pages,
but didn't see anything.

TIA,
-Mark

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