From owner-freebsd-emulation Sun Feb 2 20:33:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA07317 for emulation-outgoing; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:33:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from tulpi.interconnect.com.au (root@tulpi.interconnect.com.au [192.189.54.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07309 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:33:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from solsbury-hill.home (acc4-ppp9.mel.interconnect.com.au [210.8.0.73]) by tulpi.interconnect.com.au with ESMTP id PAA09425 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6); Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:33:04 +1100 (EST) Received: from solsbury-hill.home (localhost.home [127.0.0.1]) by solsbury-hill.home (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05241; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:27:36 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199702030427.PAA05241@solsbury-hill.home> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 From: Joel Sutton To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) cc: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: doscmd vs ??? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:24:10 MDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:27:35 +1100 Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan, > I have no other Dos programs to run, simply because I don't own any DOS > programs other than Dos5.0 and whatever install/support programs that came > with the various hardware I've bought. If I can be of any assistance with testing please let me know. I've got copies of Wordperfect, MS Word, Lotus , Turbo C/Pascal etc...etc.. I had a play with doscmd and it seemed to run various things that pcemu wouldn't. But it works both ways. The speed is quite superior of course. > (And yes, I'm completely ignorant of intel architecture up until about a > week ago.) Wow. I'm still trying to wrap all of my mind around C... Sometimes it "feels like having your brain smashed out with a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick". :-) Would there be much difficulty is getting a set of kernel patches for us release users (2.1.6) ?? I guess was I'm asking is - Does the new vm86 kernel code rely on facilities in current? I'm really happy to hear that things are going again on the dos emulation front. Thanks. Best regards, Joel... From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Feb 3 00:15:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA14694 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14689 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:15:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id SAA04986; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:44:51 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199702030814.SAA04986@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: doscmd vs ??? In-Reply-To: <199702030427.PAA05241@solsbury-hill.home> from Joel Sutton at "Feb 3, 97 03:27:35 pm" To: suttonj@interconnect.com.au (Joel Sutton) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:44:50 +1030 (CST) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joel Sutton stands accused of saying: > > I had a play with doscmd and it seemed to run various things that > pcemu wouldn't. But it works both ways. The speed is quite superior > of course. The latest pcemu (still crawling towards a 'real' 2.0 release) is actually quite a bit better than the old 1.0 in the ports collection. > Would there be much difficulty is getting a set of kernel patches for > us release users (2.1.6) ?? I guess was I'm asking is - Does the new > vm86 kernel code rely on facilities in current? Sean was working on a 2.1.6 system, so I would think that you wouldn't have too much trouble fitting his patches to your kernel. Just be aware that they _don't_ work properly, and unexpected things can wedge your system tight. > Joel... -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Feb 3 10:18:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12187 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [199.184.181.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12182 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from right.PCS (right.pcs. [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA24436; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:33:39 -0600 (CST) Received: (jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id SAA14152; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:21:44 GMT Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:21:43 -0600 From: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) To: suttonj@interconnect.com.au (Joel Sutton) Cc: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: doscmd vs ??? References: <199702030427.PAA05241@solsbury-hill.home> <199702030814.SAA04986@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199702030814.SAA04986@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Feb 3, 1997 18:44:50 +1030 Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > Joel Sutton stands accused of saying: > > Would there be much difficulty is getting a set of kernel patches for > > us release users (2.1.6) ?? I guess was I'm asking is - Does the new > > vm86 kernel code rely on facilities in current? > > Sean was working on a 2.1.6 system, so I would think that you wouldn't > have too much trouble fitting his patches to your kernel. Just be aware > that they _don't_ work properly, and unexpected things can wedge your > system tight. The initial changes that I made to Sean's patches were fairly trivial; I'm not even sure what the main showstopper was. I suspect it may have had something to do with the sigcode trampoline in locore.s; in -current, the end of the trampoline is now aligned on a longword boundary, while it wasn't earlier, according to the vm-960919 diffs. At the moment, I'm attempting to eliminate the private VM86 return, and have everything exit in the normal manner. I'm most of the way there, and hope to finish up this week. As for 2.1.6, that shouldn't be a problem; I can try to generate a set of patches against a 2.1.6 system after I get -current working. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Feb 3 16:21:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00340 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:21:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00326 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA07935; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:50:59 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199702040020.KAA07935@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: doscmd vs ??? In-Reply-To: from Jonathan Lemon at "Feb 3, 97 12:21:43 pm" To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:50:58 +1030 (CST) Cc: suttonj@interconnect.com.au, emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan Lemon stands accused of saying: > > > > Sean was working on a 2.1.6 system, so I would think that you wouldn't > > have too much trouble fitting his patches to your kernel. Just be aware > > that they _don't_ work properly, and unexpected things can wedge your > > system tight. > > The initial changes that I made to Sean's patches were fairly trivial; I'm > not even sure what the main showstopper was. I suspect it may have had > something to do with the sigcode trampoline in locore.s; in -current, the > end of the trampoline is now aligned on a longword boundary, while it > wasn't earlier, according to the vm-960919 diffs. Hmm, that's interesting. > At the moment, I'm attempting to eliminate the private VM86 return, and > have everything exit in the normal manner. I'm most of the way there, > and hope to finish up this week. That's great! > Jonathan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Feb 4 08:18:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA24066 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [199.184.181.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24056; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from right.PCS (right.pcs. [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27486; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:33:48 -0600 (CST) Received: (jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id QAA20265; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:17:25 GMT Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:17:25 -0600 From: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) To: tri@iki.fi Cc: phk@critter.dk.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), current@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vm86 in current? References: <199702041420.QAA06516@pooh.tky.hut.fi> <1135.855067749@critter.dk.tfs.com> <199702041451.QAA06624@pooh.tky.hut.fi> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199702041451.QAA06624@pooh.tky.hut.fi>; from Timo J Rinne on Feb 4, 1997 16:51:46 +0200 Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Timo J Rinne writes: > Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > In message <199702041420.QAA06516@pooh.tky.hut.fi>, Timo J Rinne writes: > > >Hi > > > > > >Is the vm86 code going to make its way into the freebsd-current (3.0) > > >code anytime soon? > > > > Yes, If somebody starts working on it. > > As far as I understood the stuff in emulation list, someone has. > It's a bit of the confusion if that stuff lives only in some weird > patch set. Of course it's also bad, if the stability of the overall > system is compromised because of this. Well, I've been re-working the patch set a little but, and now have a working set of vm86 patches against -current, which appear to be stable. I've eliminated a private 'return' to VM86, so now the normal kernel exit point is used. The next step I want to do is move the emulation of a couple instructions (cli/sti) into the kernel, and then add in VME support. When I get the cli/sti stuff working, I'll submit them to someone for integration. Hopefully this week. BTW, are there any objections if I grow the trapframe/intrframe/clockframe structures by 4 more words? It would only affect things that do sizeof(), and perhaps the kernel debugger. Otherwise, a new vm86frame structure will be needed, with a little bit of typecasting back and forth. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Feb 4 10:51:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA04501 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04493; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id FAA32304; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 05:47:58 +1100 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 05:47:58 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199702041847.FAA32304@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jlemon@americantv.com, tri@iki.fi Subject: Re: vm86 in current? Cc: current@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, phk@critter.dk.tfs.com Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >BTW, are there any objections if I grow the trapframe/intrframe/clockframe >structures by 4 more words? It would only affect things that do sizeof(), >and perhaps the kernel debugger. Otherwise, a new vm86frame structure will >be needed, with a little bit of typecasting back and forth. It would be bogus because the standard trapframe doesn't actually have the extra words. However, perhaps you can fudge the extra words by setting tss_esp0 16 lower. Bruce From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Feb 4 11:00:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA05179 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:00:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [199.184.181.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05170; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:00:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from right.PCS (right.pcs. [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA27930; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:15:11 -0600 (CST) Received: (jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id SAA04066; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:58:44 GMT Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:58:43 -0600 From: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Cc: tri@iki.fi, current@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, phk@critter.dk.tfs.com Subject: Re: vm86 in current? References: <199702041847.FAA32304@godzilla.zeta.org.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199702041847.FAA32304@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Feb 5, 1997 05:47:58 +1100 Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > >BTW, are there any objections if I grow the trapframe/intrframe/clockframe > >structures by 4 more words? It would only affect things that do sizeof(), > >and perhaps the kernel debugger. Otherwise, a new vm86frame structure will > >be needed, with a little bit of typecasting back and forth. > > It would be bogus because the standard trapframe doesn't actually have > the extra words. However, perhaps you can fudge the extra words by > setting tss_esp0 16 lower. This is what I've already done. I just wanted to see if I could get rid of the (struct trapframe_vm86) and use the reg[tXXXX] constructs instead. Besides, SS and ESP are not actually present for traps/interrupts from the kernel, either. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Feb 4 16:45:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA29812 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:45:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29803; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:45:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA18046; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:15:14 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199702050045.LAA18046@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: vm86 in current? In-Reply-To: from Jonathan Lemon at "Feb 4, 97 10:17:25 am" To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:15:13 +1030 (CST) Cc: tri@iki.fi, phk@critter.dk.tfs.com, current@FreeBSD.org, emulation@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-emulation@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan Lemon stands accused of saying: > > Well, I've been re-working the patch set a little but, and now have a > working set of vm86 patches against -current, which appear to be stable. Yay! Are these available somewhere? > I've eliminated a private 'return' to VM86, so now the normal kernel exit > point is used. The next step I want to do is move the emulation of a couple > instructions (cli/sti) into the kernel, and then add in VME support. Wunderbar! The acid test; if you boot DOS in the emulator and start MS-Edit, can you bring down the dropdown menus? > When I get the cli/sti stuff working, I'll submit them to someone for > integration. Hopefully this week. Please make sure that the cli/sti stuff honours the 'connect area' code so that the emulator knows not to deliver device pseudo-interrupts. (I can talk more about this on request) > Jonathan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Feb 4 18:54:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22337 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA22317; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:54:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA13988; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:50:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199702050250.TAA13988@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: vm86 in current? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:50:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, tri@iki.fi, current@FreeBSD.ORG, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, phk@critter.dk.tfs.com In-Reply-To: <199702041847.FAA32304@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Feb 5, 97 05:47:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >BTW, are there any objections if I grow the trapframe/intrframe/clockframe > >structures by 4 more words? It would only affect things that do sizeof(), > >and perhaps the kernel debugger. Otherwise, a new vm86frame structure will > >be needed, with a little bit of typecasting back and forth. > > It would be bogus because the standard trapframe doesn't actually have > the extra words. However, perhaps you can fudge the extra words by > setting tss_esp0 16 lower. This will impact the SMP per CPU segment. Please advise of the changes to the smp@freebsd.org list so that they can be incorporated there as well. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 5 10:22:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22986 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:22:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ColState.EDU (earth.ColState.EDU [168.26.193.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22932 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from colstate.edu (mercury.ColState.EDU [168.26.193.32]) by earth.ColState.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28573 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:00:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from CCMAIN/SpoolDir by colstate.edu (Mercury 1.21); 5 Feb 97 13:20:09 EST Received: from SpoolDir by CCMAIN (Mercury 1.30); 5 Feb 97 13:19:58 EST From: "Christian" To: emulation@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:19:57 EST Subject: Curious... Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 (NDS) Message-ID: Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I was curious to know how you (The people working on dos emulation) think Caldera's decision to distribute its Open DOS product's source over the internet will affect freeBSD's dos emulation? Will freebsd be able to use parts of open dos in its do emulator?...etc Bye, C.P. From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 5 17:23:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA02412 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02404 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:22:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA28747; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:52:46 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199702060122.LAA28747@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Curious... In-Reply-To: from Christian at "Feb 5, 97 01:19:57 pm" To: PLAZAS_CHRISTIAN@COLSTATE.EDU (Christian) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:52:45 +1030 (CST) Cc: emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christian stands accused of saying: > I was curious to know how you (The people working on dos > emulation) think Caldera's decision to distribute its Open DOS > product's source over the internet will affect freeBSD's dos > emulation? Will freebsd be able to use parts of open dos in its do In the tradition of commercial companies using the term "Open" to describe their products (read: lying through scabrous orifices), the license on "OpenDOS" is insufficiently "open" (at my reading) for us to want to touch it with a 40' pole. Some excerpts from their "open" license : CALDERA OPENDOS END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT REDISTRIBUTION NOT PERMITTED Caldera grants you a non-exclusive license to use the Software free of charge if (a) you are a student, faculty member or staff member of an educational institution (K-12, junior college, college or library), a staff member of a religious organization, or an employee of an organization which meets Caldera's criteria for a charitable non-profit organization; or (b) your use of the Software is for the purpose of evaluating whether to purchase an ongoing license to the Software. The evaluation period for use by or on behalf of a commercial entity is limited to 90 days; evaluation use by others is not subject to this 90 day limit. Government agencies (other than public libraries) are not considered educational, religious, or charitable non-profit organizations for purposes of this Agreement. ... You may not: o permit other individuals to use the Software except under the terms listed above; o modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble (except to the extent applicable laws specifically prohibit such restriction), or create derivative works based on the Software; o copy the Software other than as specified above; o copy or reproduce the Software to any other computer for further reproduction or redistribution, Basically, calling it "open" is a joke. Also, somewhere along the line there was supposed to be _source_ available. Interesting how that hasn't appeared, hmm? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 5 18:38:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA06208 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06200 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:38:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA13203; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:38:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:38:28 -0800 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199702060238.SAA13203@kithrup.com> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Curious... Cc: emulation@freebsd.org Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Basically, calling it "open" is a joke. Also, somewhere along the line >there was supposed to be _source_ available. Interesting how that hasn't >appeared, hmm? I have initiated discussion with Caldera about this. Sean. From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Feb 5 18:55:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA07157 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:55:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07147 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id NAA29488; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:24:43 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199702060254.NAA29488@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Curious... In-Reply-To: <199702060238.SAA13203@kithrup.com> from Sean Eric Fagan at "Feb 5, 97 06:38:28 pm" To: sef@Kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:24:42 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Eric Fagan stands accused of saying: > >Basically, calling it "open" is a joke. Also, somewhere along the line > >there was supposed to be _source_ available. Interesting how that hasn't > >appeared, hmm? > > I have initiated discussion with Caldera about this. Thanks Sean. It'd be really helpful to know whether they consider it desirable to ship it with "Open"Linux and deny it the rest of the FS world, or whether they'll let us take a stab at it as well. I for one could be very easily sold on the idea of throwing it into the DOScmd stuff and nearly/totally replacing the 'standalone' DOS emulation code. (ie. in "non-boot" mode, you'd treat the DOS app being run as an embedded application, or something similar) For this to work, though, the source has to be available and shareable, not to mention buildable. > Sean. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[