From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Oct 6 01:53:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA15239 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 01:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA15228 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 01:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01110; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:20:20 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710060850.SAA01110@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Stefan Arentz cc: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux Compatibility - sendmsg/recvmsg In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Oct 1997 00:56:23 +0200." <19971006005623.57358@kalkoen.sateh.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 18:20:19 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (redirected to -emulation) > > Is there any particular reason that the sendmsg and recvmsg > calls are not implemented in the linux compatibility module? None that I can see. > I'm trying to use some linux software that needs these > two calls and if there's no technical reason why those > calls can't be implemented in the emulator I might give > it a try myself. It should be reasonably straightforward; they belong in linux_socket.c - please submit diffs and if possible a test binary to show they work OK and someone (me if nobody else) will commit them. > Thanx in advance, Thank _you_ for the offer of help. mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Oct 6 12:36:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22116 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22111 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:36:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA03807; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19971006153558.29515@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:35:58 -0400 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Linux and Real Video 5.0 for linux Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Okay you linux emu folks, the Real Video 5.0 player just popped out, and the linux emulator emits: LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=5, typ=0x450(P), num=0xf not implemented When attempting to play a rv stream... What is it? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Oct 7 21:58:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18809 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:58:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18797 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00825; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:25:19 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710080455.OAA00825@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux and Real Video 5.0 for linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Oct 1997 15:35:58 -0400." <19971006153558.29515@crh.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 14:25:18 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Okay you linux emu folks, the Real Video 5.0 player just popped out, and the > linux emulator emits: > > LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=5, typ=0x450(P), num=0xf not implemented > > When attempting to play a rv stream... What is it? This is the SNDCTL_DSP_GETTRIGGER/SETTRIGGER ioctl. It's not supported by the old Voxware code in FreeBSD. You will probably have to use the OSS module if things are not working for you. mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Oct 7 23:32:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24505 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:32:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24496 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id IAA01496; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:26:31 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199710080626.IAA01496@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Linux and Real Video 5.0 for linux In-Reply-To: <199710080455.OAA00825@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Oct 8, 97 02:25:18 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:26:31 +0200 (MEST) Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > Okay you linux emu folks, the Real Video 5.0 player just popped out, and the > > linux emulator emits: > > > > LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=5, typ=0x450(P), num=0xf not implemented > > > > When attempting to play a rv stream... What is it? > > This is the SNDCTL_DSP_GETTRIGGER/SETTRIGGER ioctl. It's not supported > by the old Voxware code in FreeBSD. There is work underway to have this done, but be patient.... > You will probably have to use the OSS module if things are not working > for you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 9 19:10:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15561 for emulation-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15554 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:10:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-16.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.16]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA02569; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 21:10:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA13256; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 21:10:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199710100210.VAA13256@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Martin Cracauer cc: Thomas David Rivers , freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-reply-to: Message from Martin Cracauer of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 01:40:16 +0200." <19971010014016.54859@cons.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:10:01 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Shouldn't this be in -emulation? > Add a program named "uname" to /compat/linux/bin or such that puts out > hardcoded strings of your choice. For kicks today I decided to see if an IDL 5.0 demo would run under FreeBSD. It quickly quit, unable to ID the system to one it knew. Was still running startup shell scripts at the time. I put ~/bin in the front of $path, and a uname shell script that simply said "echo Linux". Got IDL to run a little bit further. Said it thought I had pseudo 8 color when it really wanted TrueColor 16. Then it died. Am not going to lose any sleep over it. Thought someone might be interested. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 9 19:46:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17254 for emulation-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17248 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:46:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA29979; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13421; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id WAA08073; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:51:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710100251.WAA08073@lakes.dignus.com> To: cracauer@cons.org, dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). Cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, rivers@dignus.com Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Shouldn't this be in -emulation? Probably should - I'm not subscribed to that; and don't keep track with just what news groups there are... > > > Add a program named "uname" to /compat/linux/bin or such that puts out > > hardcoded strings of your choice. > > For kicks today I decided to see if an IDL 5.0 demo would run under > FreeBSD. It quickly quit, unable to ID the system to one it knew. Was > still running startup shell scripts at the time. > > I put ~/bin in the front of $path, and a uname shell script that simply > said "echo Linux". Got IDL to run a little bit further. Said it thought > I had pseudo 8 color when it really wanted TrueColor 16. Then it died. > > Am not going to lose any sleep over it. Thought someone might be > interested. > But - I'm talking about the uname() system call, not the uname program... - Dave R. - > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 9 19:49:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17418 for emulation-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:49:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA17413 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:49:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA01779; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:49:26 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:49:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-Reply-To: <199710100210.VAA13256@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >For kicks today I decided to see if an IDL 5.0 demo would run under >FreeBSD. It quickly quit, unable to ID the system to one it knew. Was >still running startup shell scripts at the time. Aye, yes. It's necessary to hunt though the various scripts and replace "Linux" with "Linux"|"FreeBSD". (Or variations on this theme.) >I put ~/bin in the front of $path, and a uname shell script that simply >said "echo Linux". Got IDL to run a little bit further. Said it thought >I had pseudo 8 color when it really wanted TrueColor 16. Then it died. This is a whole different problem. 16-bit color gives IDL serious indigestion. This is why I spent the bucks for the Xig server, IDL does reasonably OK with 24-bit color. (I use IDL all the time on my FreeBSD box.) Brian From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 9 20:08:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18147 for emulation-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18141 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:07:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00470; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:33:46 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710100303.MAA00470@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Oct 1997 18:27:47 -0400." <199710092227.SAA07605@lakes.dignus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:33:43 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This question should have been posted on the -emulation list, to where it has been moved. > I have a program, written for Linux, that uses the uname() information > as part of its license check... > > Unfortunately, the check fails... the company indicates that the > failure is due to incorrect uname() information. > > So - does the uname() call under Linux emulation claim to be a LINUX > box? - or - does it claim to be a FreeBSD box... Does the application make a uname() call, or does it attempt to run a 'uname' executable? > Which should it do? Seems to me, for accurate Linux emulation, it should > claim to be Linux... Do you see a console message saying: linux_emul(%d): olduname() not supported ? If not, the Linux uname will return the contents of the kern.ostype sysctl. > - Opinions? - I am not sure that I agree that uname() should claim to be Linux when we're not. Then again, perhaps we should use something more subtle to indicate that we're a FreeBSD system. Why is this product so paranoid? mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 9 20:29:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19243 for emulation-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19236 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:29:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00556; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:54:26 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710100324.MAA00556@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dkelly@hiwaay.net cc: Martin Cracauer , Thomas David Rivers , freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:10:01 EST." <199710100210.VAA13256@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:54:26 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > For kicks today I decided to see if an IDL 5.0 demo would run under > FreeBSD. It quickly quit, unable to ID the system to one it knew. Was > still running startup shell scripts at the time. > > I put ~/bin in the front of $path, and a uname shell script that simply > said "echo Linux". Got IDL to run a little bit further. Said it thought > I had pseudo 8 color when it really wanted TrueColor 16. Then it died. > > Am not going to lose any sleep over it. Thought someone might be > interested. We use IDL 4 and 5 in our radar analysis software products. Naturally, it runs fine under FreeBSD, modulo the fairly severe bugs that are present in IDL 4. This includes the FlexLM license manager. The problem with 16bpp displays (if that is actually what you saw) is a feature of the Linux Motif libraries; we run either at 8bpp (economy mode, somewhat obsolete) or 24bpp. mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 9 20:33:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19454 for emulation-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:33:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19449 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:33:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00625; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:00:41 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710100330.NAA00625@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Brian N. Handy" cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Oct 1997 19:49:26 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:00:41 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >For kicks today I decided to see if an IDL 5.0 demo would run under > >FreeBSD. It quickly quit, unable to ID the system to one it knew. Was > >still running startup shell scripts at the time. > > Aye, yes. It's necessary to hunt though the various scripts and replace > "Linux" with "Linux"|"FreeBSD". (Or variations on this theme.) I did a port for IDL 4; any interest in one for the IDL5 demo? This is a big, badass scientific product that FreeBSD runs perfectly, if you're ever looking for more brag material. (Anyone tried the Linux PV-Wave on FreeBSD?) There are only two or three scripts that need changing (the rest are just links)... mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Thu Oct 9 21:47:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23014 for emulation-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 21:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23005 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 21:47:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15732; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:46:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA18916; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710100446.WAA18916@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Cc: Martin Cracauer , Thomas David Rivers , freebsd-emulation@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-Reply-To: <199710100210.VAA13256@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: <19971010014016.54859@cons.org> <199710100210.VAA13256@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For kicks today I decided to see if an IDL 5.0 demo would run under > FreeBSD. It quickly quit, unable to ID the system to one it knew. Was > still running startup shell scripts at the time. > > I put ~/bin in the front of $path, and a uname shell script that simply > said "echo Linux". Got IDL to run a little bit further. Said it thought > I had pseudo 8 color when it really wanted TrueColor 16. Then it died. > > Am not going to lose any sleep over it. Thought someone might be > interested. I know of at least one person who runs IDL5 in production mode on FreeBSD, so I'm unsure why you had problems. Nate From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 01:23:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02410 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 01:23:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02404 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 01:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA03442; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:22:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA02135; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:22:11 +0200 (CEST) To: Mike Smith Cc: "Brian N. Handy" , dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). References: <199710100330.NAA00625@word.smith.net.au> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 10 Oct 1997 10:22:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:00:41 +0930 Message-ID: <87afgihvt8.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Smith writes: > I did a port for IDL 4; any interest in one for the IDL5 demo? Just Do It (TM). tg From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 05:12:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA10001 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 05:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA09976; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 05:12:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA24588; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22215; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id IAA08913; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:18:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710101218.IAA08913@lakes.dignus.com> To: jlemon@americantv.com, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). Cc: cracauer@cons.org, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Oct 10, 1997 at 10:49:40PM -0400, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > I have a program, written for Linux, that uses the uname() information > > as part of its license check... > > > > Unfortunately, the check fails... the company indicates that the > > failure is due to incorrect uname() information. > > > > So - does the uname() call under Linux emulation claim to be a LINUX > > box? - or - does it claim to be a FreeBSD box... > > > > The Linux uname() call currently reports the FreeBSD info. I suppose > that this could be made into a sysctl if it really becomes a nuisance? > (see sys/i386/linux/linux_misc.c:linux_newuname for the implementation) > -- > Jonathan > Well - it was a nuisance in this case, as I was unable to run the particular Linux program I wanted to run... And, of course, you are right... I got a small program that simply calls uname() on Linux and ran it on FreeBSD - it reported the FreeBSD info... However, after reporting what I was doing, the company sent me a new license key (with the idea that "FreeBSD" would be returned in the utsname fields), which worked... It's just a bother for the various companies, and it means that our claim of being able to run Linux binaries isn't as complete as we may have wanted. Maybe a sysctl, so people could taylor it, is the right thing to do. In any event, I think a uname() call under Linux emulation should claim to be "Linux" and not "FreeBSD". So, the default should be "Linux"... - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 05:15:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA10160 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 05:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA10152 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 05:15:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA25070; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22224; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:30:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id IAA08936; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:20:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710101220.IAA08936@lakes.dignus.com> To: mike@smith.net.au, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). Cc: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This question should have been posted on the -emulation list, to where > it has been moved. That sounds great! Thanks... > > > I have a program, written for Linux, that uses the uname() information > > as part of its license check... > > > > Unfortunately, the check fails... the company indicates that the > > failure is due to incorrect uname() information. > > > > So - does the uname() call under Linux emulation claim to be a LINUX > > box? - or - does it claim to be a FreeBSD box... > > Does the application make a uname() call, or does it attempt to run a > 'uname' executable? It makes the uname() system call. > > > Which should it do? Seems to me, for accurate Linux emulation, it should > > claim to be Linux... > > Do you see a console message saying: > > linux_emul(%d): olduname() not supported > > ? If not, the Linux uname will return the contents of the kern.ostype > sysctl. Nope - I didn't see that on the console... Also, I've got a simple Linux program that calls uname() and prints the info... it claims to be FreeBSD. > > > - Opinions? - > > I am not sure that I agree that uname() should claim to be Linux when > we're not. Then again, perhaps we should use something more subtle to > indicate that we're a FreeBSD system. > > Why is this product so paranoid? They taylor their license key to a particular system... why; well, just because... who am I to say? - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 06:18:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12774 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 06:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12698; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 06:16:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id PAA07929; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:12:44 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199710101312.PAA07929@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-Reply-To: <199710101218.IAA08913@lakes.dignus.com> from Thomas David Rivers at "Oct 10, 97 08:18:06 am" To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:12:44 +0200 (MEST) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, rivers@dignus.com, cracauer@cons.org, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Thomas David Rivers who wrote: > > On Oct 10, 1997 at 10:49:40PM -0400, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > I have a program, written for Linux, that uses the uname() information > > > as part of its license check... > > > > > > Unfortunately, the check fails... the company indicates that the > > > failure is due to incorrect uname() information. > > > > > > So - does the uname() call under Linux emulation claim to be a LINUX > > > box? - or - does it claim to be a FreeBSD box... > > > > > > > The Linux uname() call currently reports the FreeBSD info. I suppose > > that this could be made into a sysctl if it really becomes a nuisance? > > (see sys/i386/linux/linux_misc.c:linux_newuname for the implementation) > > -- > > Jonathan > > > > Well - it was a nuisance in this case, as I was unable to run the > particular Linux program I wanted to run... > > And, of course, you are right... I got a small program that simply > calls uname() on Linux and ran it on FreeBSD - it reported the FreeBSD > info... > > However, after reporting what I was doing, the company sent me a new > license key (with the idea that "FreeBSD" would be returned in the utsname > fields), which worked... > > It's just a bother for the various companies, and it means that our claim > of being able to run Linux binaries isn't as complete as we may have wanted. > > Maybe a sysctl, so people could taylor it, is the right thing to do. > In any event, I think a uname() call under Linux emulation should claim > to be "Linux" and not "FreeBSD". So, the default should be "Linux"... NO, I think this is a bad idea. First off it _is_ not a Linux system, second the next thing is you will have to report an os version. Now tell me which of the bezillions Linux's versions are we going to call us then ? And besides some programs uses this to tell other services which platform they are running on, we dont want to advertise ourselves as Linux do we ?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 06:53:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA14481 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 06:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA14463 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 06:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA04045; Fri, 10 Oct 97 15:53:50 +0100 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 97 15:53:50 +0100 Message-Id: <9710101453.AA04045@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: freebsd-emulation@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: twin 3.1.0 X-Mailer: Emacs Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Did someone succeeded to compile twin 3.1.0? I don't know what to to do with the following error: rm -f ExecUtl.s gcc -fwritable-strings -fPIC -I/u5/twin/3.1.0/include -I. -I/usr/X11R6/include -DDEBUG -DTRACE -I/usr/X11R6/include -E ExecUtl.S > ExecUtl.s gcc -fwritable-strings -fPIC -I/u5/twin/3.1.0/include -I. -I/usr/X11R6/include -DDEBUG -DTRACE -I/usr/X11R6/include -c ExecUtl.s ExecUtl.S: Assembler messages: ExecUtl.S:647: Error: Local symbol LDT never defined. ExecUtl.S:647: Error: Local symbol LogProcName never defined. ExecUtl.S:647: Fatal error:2 errors, 0 warnings, no object file generated. *** Error code 1 Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 09:04:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20185 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:04:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.dpcsys.com [206.16.184.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20128; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dpcsys.com) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA02214; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:02:49 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Busarow To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-Reply-To: <199710101218.IAA08913@lakes.dignus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > However, after reporting what I was doing, the company sent me a new > license key (with the idea that "FreeBSD" would be returned in the utsname > fields), which worked... Seems like this could be a good thing. Let the companies know that some of those Linux sales are really FreeBSD sales. Dan -- Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 DPC Systems / Beach.Net dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 10:42:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26220 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26202; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:42:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA01059; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23442; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id NAA09326; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:34:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710101734.NAA09326@lakes.dignus.com> To: rivers@dignus.com, sos@sos.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). Cc: cracauer@cons.org, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, jlemon@americantv.com Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Maybe a sysctl, so people could taylor it, is the right thing to do. > > In any event, I think a uname() call under Linux emulation should claim > > to be "Linux" and not "FreeBSD". So, the default should be "Linux"... > > NO, I think this is a bad idea. First off it _is_ not a Linux system, > second the next thing is you will have to report an os version. Now tell > me which of the bezillions Linux's versions are we going to call us then ? > And besides some programs uses this to tell other services which platform > they are running on, we dont want to advertise ourselves as Linux do we ?? > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. > Well - I suppose it comes down to just how much of an emulation we want to be... That is, do we want to be able to run any Linux program; or some (admittedly large) subset of them? Since there are many different variants of Linux emulation; I'd suggest we simply report our emulation version as the OS version. And - we would not be advertising ourselves as Linux; but simply being faithful to the emulation... - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 10:54:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26911 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [206.127.225.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA26884; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:54:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from richard@pegasus.com) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id HAA17182; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:54:17 -1000 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:54:17 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199710101754.HAA17182@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Søren Schmidt "Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3)." (Oct 10, 3:12pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } } NO, I think this is a bad idea. First off it _is_ not a Linux system, } second the next thing is you will have to report an os version. Now tell } me which of the bezillions Linux's versions are we going to call us then = } ? } And besides some programs uses this to tell other services which platform } they are running on, we dont want to advertise ourselves as Linux do we ?= } ? } This is absurd. When you're emulating another OS you want to get as close as possible to acting just like that OS. Period. The goal is to run software. If the emulation is incomplete then chances are some things won't run -- which means the emulator fails it's primary task. If you find the `Linux' report to be that hideous then make the output configurable. But the default action should be as close to what Linux produces as possible. If Linux software doesn't run, for any reason, then the emulator has failed. Richard From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 11:13:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27816 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:13:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27790; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:13:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id UAA08508; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:07:34 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199710101807.UAA08508@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-Reply-To: <199710101734.NAA09326@lakes.dignus.com> from Thomas David Rivers at "Oct 10, 97 01:34:43 pm" To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:07:34 +0200 (MEST) Cc: rivers@dignus.com, cracauer@cons.org, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, jlemon@americantv.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Thomas David Rivers who wrote: > > > > NO, I think this is a bad idea. First off it _is_ not a Linux system, > > second the next thing is you will have to report an os version. Now tell > > me which of the bezillions Linux's versions are we going to call us then ? > > And besides some programs uses this to tell other services which platform > > they are running on, we dont want to advertise ourselves as Linux do we ?? > > > Well - I suppose it comes down to just how much of an emulation > we want to be... That is, do we want to be able to run any Linux > program; or some (admittedly large) subset of them? That should have nothing to do with it, but some vendors are just plain stupid, and we shouldn't pad them on the shoudler for that. > Since there are many different variants of Linux emulation; I'd suggest > we simply report our emulation version as the OS version. We allready do that, sort of.. > And - we would not be advertising ourselves as Linux; but simply > being faithful to the emulation... That was NOT what I meant, certain programs uses the uname info to log to other parties that they've "been there", we don't want the statistics to be in favour of linux here, when it actually was a FreeBSD system that made the connection. It has nothing to do with fait, its hard facts :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 12:17:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01834 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:17:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from peedub.muc.de (newpc.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01817 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:17:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.muc.de) Received: from peedub.muc.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.muc.de (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03766; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:17:22 GMT Message-Id: <199710102117.VAA03766@peedub.muc.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jean-Marc Zucconi Cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: twin 3.1.0 Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:53:50 +0100." <9710101453.AA04045@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:17:21 +0000 From: Gary Jennejohn Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jean-Marc Zucconi writes: > >Did someone succeeded to compile twin 3.1.0? I don't know what to to do >with the following error: > >rm -f ExecUtl.s >gcc -fwritable-strings -fPIC -I/u5/twin/3.1.0/include -I. -I/usr/X11R6/includ >e > -DDEBUG -DTRACE -I/usr/X11R6/include -E ExecUtl.S > ExecUtl.s >gcc -fwritable-strings -fPIC -I/u5/twin/3.1.0/include -I. -I/usr/X11R6/includ >e > -DDEBUG -DTRACE -I/usr/X11R6/include -c ExecUtl.s >ExecUtl.S: Assembler messages: >ExecUtl.S:647: Error: Local symbol LDT never defined. >ExecUtl.S:647: Error: Local symbol LogProcName never defined. >ExecUtl.S:647: Fatal error:2 errors, 0 warnings, no object file generated. > >*** Error code 1 > is that crap still in there ?!? IIRC from the abortive effort of last year, you have to go in and heavily hack ExecUtl.s to use the LDT. Too bad I recently threw away everything I did on willows last year, or I'd send you what I had. It was just wasting valuable disk space. At one time all the stuff which was done on willows for FreeBSD was available on the willoes ftp server. Maybe it's still there ? Or maybe one of the other people who was involved in willows kept everything and can help you out. If worse comes to worst you can probably figure out what to do. It isn't rocket science and wasn't all that difficult. --- Gary Jennejohn Home - garyj@muc.de Work - gjennejohn@frt.dec.com From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 12:40:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03010 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:40:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from consys.com (consys.com [209.60.202.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03002; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:40:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcarter@consys.com) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (dnstoo.ConSys.COM [209.60.202.195]) by consys.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA14473; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dnstoo.consys.com (8.8.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA02976; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:40:10 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710101940.MAA02976@dnstoo.consys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: S ren Schmidt cc: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers), cracauer@cons.org, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, jlemon@americantv.com Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:07:34 +0200." <199710101807.UAA08508@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:40:10 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA03003 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk }We allready do that, sort of.. } }> And - we would not be advertising ourselves as Linux; but simply }> being faithful to the emulation... } }That was NOT what I meant, certain programs uses the uname info to }log to other parties that they've "been there", we don't want the }statistics to be in favour of linux here, when it actually was a }FreeBSD system that made the connection. }It has nothing to do with fait, its hard facts :) Hmm, hard facts are things like having a deadline to get a project demoed, so there isn't enough time to get the vendor to understand what is going on and change the test that works for them on their linux boxes, then package up a new distribution just for me. Codine is a real good example (www.genias.de). But I like Martin's idea of stuffing a dummy uname into the linux bin, too. Russell From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 13:05:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA04446 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:05:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04401; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA25648; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24147; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id QAA09577; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:03:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710102003.QAA09577@lakes.dignus.com> To: rivers@dignus.com, sos@sos.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). Cc: cracauer@cons.org, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, jlemon@americantv.com Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply to Thomas David Rivers who wrote: > > > > > > NO, I think this is a bad idea. First off it _is_ not a Linux system, > > > second the next thing is you will have to report an os version. Now tell > > > me which of the bezillions Linux's versions are we going to call us then ? > > > And besides some programs uses this to tell other services which platform > > > they are running on, we dont want to advertise ourselves as Linux do we ?? > > > > > Well - I suppose it comes down to just how much of an emulation > > we want to be... That is, do we want to be able to run any Linux > > program; or some (admittedly large) subset of them? > > That should have nothing to do with it, but some vendors are just plain > stupid, and we shouldn't pad them on the shoudler for that. > > > Since there are many different variants of Linux emulation; I'd suggest > > we simply report our emulation version as the OS version. > > We allready do that, sort of.. > > > And - we would not be advertising ourselves as Linux; but simply > > being faithful to the emulation... > > That was NOT what I meant, certain programs uses the uname info to > log to other parties that they've "been there", we don't want the > statistics to be in favour of linux here, when it actually was a > FreeBSD system that made the connection. > It has nothing to do with fait, its hard facts :) I hadn't considered that - it does make a lot of sense... and, I agree with you... How 'bout a sysctl then, so people could adjust this if needed... - Dave Rivers - > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 14:31:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11243 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11227; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:31:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13249; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:31:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710102131.OAA13249@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:31:13 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, rivers@dignus.com, cracauer@cons.org, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199710101218.IAA08913@lakes.dignus.com> from "Thomas David Rivers" at Oct 10, 97 08:18:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The Linux uname() call currently reports the FreeBSD info. I suppose > > that this could be made into a sysctl if it really becomes a nuisance? > > (see sys/i386/linux/linux_misc.c:linux_newuname for the implementation) > > Well - it was a nuisance in this case, as I was unable to run the > particular Linux program I wanted to run... > > And, of course, you are right... I got a small program that simply > calls uname() on Linux and ran it on FreeBSD - it reported the FreeBSD > info... > > However, after reporting what I was doing, the company sent me a new > license key (with the idea that "FreeBSD" would be returned in the utsname > fields), which worked... > > It's just a bother for the various companies, and it means that our claim > of being able to run Linux binaries isn't as complete as we may have wanted. > > Maybe a sysctl, so people could taylor it, is the right thing to do. > In any event, I think a uname() call under Linux emulation should claim > to be "Linux" and not "FreeBSD". So, the default should be "Linux"... I *STRONGLY* disagree! Putting aside for the moment the fact that the utsname is a silly thing to include in a licensing scheme on an OS where you can make it say whatever you want it to (you can even do it on Solaris/UnixWare, since you can load a loadable driver, and as part of the "init", overwrite the sysent[] table entry with a pointer to your replacement function). The reason the Linux uname reports FreeBSD instead of Linux information is *precisely* to trigger fixes exactly like the one you got. You now have added a "FreeBSD" tally mark instead of a "Linux" tally mark at that company. Initially, it was done because of the Linux NetScape reporting "Linux" to the HTTP servers on the other end of the line, when in fact it was running on FreeBSD. If you want accurate demographics for FreeBSD systems, then this type of thing needs to stick out. That said, I'm not terribly opposed to a sysctl() that would let you hammer it down, but it should *definitely* remain the way it is for the default, and hammering should be a last resort. I'm somewhat opposed to a sysctl(), only because it's too easy to avoid providing correct demographics to companies that should *know* that their products are being used on FreeBSD before the next release is ported to various platforms. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 14:44:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12206 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:44:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12186; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:44:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14799; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:44:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710102144.OAA14799@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:44:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199710101754.HAA17182@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Oct 10, 97 07:54:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is absurd. > > When you're emulating another OS you want to get as close as possible > to acting just like that OS. Period. Agreed. > The goal is to run software. If the emulation is incomplete then > chances are some things won't run -- which means the emulator fails it's > primary task. So, when do the patches for vgalib, user LDT, and Linux vm86() call support arrive? There are many more programs that care about these than uname(). Frankly, given the speed of the version rotor, I'd be very surprised if anything keyed on "release" or "version" at all... > If you find the `Linux' report to be that hideous then make the output > configurable. The value of "sysname" is exactly what was at issue here. The result that the company now produces FreeBSD specific license keys is a highly desirable outcome. I would even say "optimal", except I believe they should port their product to run natively on FreeBSD. Even so, now they are aware of FreeBSD, and we may see it mentioned in their ads. > But the default action should be as close to what Linux produces as possible. Fine. What's the exact version of Linux we are emulating? > If Linux software doesn't run, for any reason, then the emulator has failed. Agreed. But there are more serious failures than this. This was a license failure, not a product failure, in any case. As I said before, "sysname" is a silly thing to use for your license on an OS where its value can be changed at will (which is all of them). I much prefer floating instance licenses, in any case. Hmmm. Maybe I should make my loadable license spoofer for Solaris (which I wrote because it was easier than transferring the license) available? It vfork's and sends down the desired license data with the PID before exec'ing the licensed program. It handles both uname and hostid data. Any call with a spoofed PID (flag for PPID for child processes) gets the spoofed return. Pretty darn trivial "emulator failure"... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 19:14:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24110 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:14:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24089; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA15909; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25539; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id WAA11043; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710110219.WAA11043@lakes.dignus.com> To: rivers@dignus.com, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). Cc: cracauer@cons.org, freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, jlemon@americantv.com Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk See below... > > > > The Linux uname() call currently reports the FreeBSD info. I suppose > > > that this could be made into a sysctl if it really becomes a nuisance? > > > (see sys/i386/linux/linux_misc.c:linux_newuname for the implementation) > > > > Well - it was a nuisance in this case, as I was unable to run the > > particular Linux program I wanted to run... > > > > And, of course, you are right... I got a small program that simply > > calls uname() on Linux and ran it on FreeBSD - it reported the FreeBSD > > info... > > > > However, after reporting what I was doing, the company sent me a new > > license key (with the idea that "FreeBSD" would be returned in the utsname > > fields), which worked... > > > > It's just a bother for the various companies, and it means that our claim > > of being able to run Linux binaries isn't as complete as we may have wanted. > > > > Maybe a sysctl, so people could taylor it, is the right thing to do. > > In any event, I think a uname() call under Linux emulation should claim > > to be "Linux" and not "FreeBSD". So, the default should be "Linux"... > > I *STRONGLY* disagree! > > Putting aside for the moment the fact that the utsname is a silly thing > to include in a licensing scheme on an OS where you can make it say > whatever you want it to (you can even do it on Solaris/UnixWare, since > you can load a loadable driver, and as part of the "init", overwrite > the sysent[] table entry with a pointer to your replacement function). > > The reason the Linux uname reports FreeBSD instead of Linux information > is *precisely* to trigger fixes exactly like the one you got. You now > have added a "FreeBSD" tally mark instead of a "Linux" tally mark at > that company. > > Initially, it was done because of the Linux NetScape reporting "Linux" > to the HTTP servers on the other end of the line, when in fact it was > running on FreeBSD. If you want accurate demographics for FreeBSD > systems, then this type of thing needs to stick out. > > That said, I'm not terribly opposed to a sysctl() that would let you > hammer it down, but it should *definitely* remain the way it is for > the default, and hammering should be a last resort. I'm somewhat > opposed to a sysctl(), only because it's too easy to avoid providing > correct demographics to companies that should *know* that their products > are being used on FreeBSD before the next release is ported to various > platforms. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Well... For reasons such as Terry has described - I have been convinced that returning "Linux" as the default isn't the way to go. Also, just to let everyone know - the company has agreed to check for Linux and FreeBSD coming back from uname(). They will simply not look at sysname[] when building for Linux, using the constant string "Linux" instead. Also, they indicated that at the time the license check was designed - the idea of one OS emulating another hadn't occurred... (that begs the question of why they are checking...) You might see support for FreeBSD in some of the newer documentation; I'll let everyone know if it happens... For this reason, and since it did meet the goal of raising FreeBSD awareness - I'm going to suggest we not do a sysctl... You are running on FreeBSD and you should let everyone know about it! - Thanks for all the discussion! - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 19:24:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24657 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from mother.sneaker.net.au (akm@mother.sneaker.net.au [203.30.3.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24634; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@mother.sneaker.net.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mother.sneaker.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA01538; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:31:57 GMT From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199710111231.MAA01538@mother.sneaker.net.au> Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:31:57 +0000 () Cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199710101754.HAA17182@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Oct 10, 97 07:54:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk +-----[ Richard Foulk ]------------------------------ | | If Linux software doesn't run, for any reason, then the emulator has failed. Or the software is poorly written, relies on bugs or undocumented features. I can think of things that won't run on consecutive versions of the operating system it was written for, this is under various platforms. I can understand why uname might be used to build/configure software, but, I don't understand why you would use it to licence your software. There are better ways. -- ,-_|\ SneakerNet | Andrew Milton | GSM: +61(41)6 022 411 / \ P.O. Box 154 | akm@sneaker.net.au | Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233 v NSW 2137 | Low cost Internet Solutions | From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 19:59:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26013 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:59:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [206.127.225.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25990; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:59:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from richard@pegasus.com) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id QAA19979; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:56:30 -1000 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:56:30 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199710110256.QAA19979@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Andrew Kenneth Milton "Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3)." (Oct 11, 12:31pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } | If Linux software doesn't run, for any reason, then the emulator has failed. } } Or the software is poorly written, relies on bugs or undocumented features. } No. If it runs under Linux it should run under the emulator. Good emulation is fully bug compatible. Remember the various DOS emulators. They emulate many bugs and undocumented features. When you type `VER' they respond with `MS-DOS Version 5.00', not `FreeBSD ...' The intent is to run software. Without prejudice. The emulator should not become a software critic. Richard From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Oct 10 20:24:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27068 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:24:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27046; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA16064; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:24:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710110324.UAA16064@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 03:24:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199710110256.QAA19979@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Oct 10, 97 04:56:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No. > > If it runs under Linux it should run under the emulator. Good emulation > is fully bug compatible. > > Remember the various DOS emulators. They emulate many bugs and undocumented > features. When you type `VER' they respond with `MS-DOS Version 5.00', > not `FreeBSD ...' Technically, you are missing the distinction between an emulator and a simulator here. It actually *is* DOS running, just not directly in contact with the glass... > The intent is to run software. Without prejudice. The emulator should > not become a software critic. Agreed. However, consider the uname() thing as a marketing mandate: it doesn't have to make sense for it to still have to be that way. This is actually the first complaint I've ever heard about it... unless you count the complaints about NetScape running on FreeBSD being counted as Linux and therefore exagerating the Linux market share at the expense of underreporting the FreeBSD market share. I heard a *lot* of those complaints before the change (see the CVS log for the file). This is very much on the order of an external machine interface more than an emulator interface. The only reason it even came up is because someone's license manager didn't expect FreeBSD (most likely because of all that underreporting making it seem to be an insignificant market...). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Oct 11 00:20:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05342 for emulation-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:20:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05321; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:20:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00666; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:47:21 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710110717.QAA00666@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:54:17 -1000." <199710101754.HAA17182@pegasus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:47:18 +0930 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id AAA05322 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The goal is to run software. If the emulation is incomplete then > chances are some things won't run -- which means the emulator fails it's > primary task. > > If you find the `Linux' report to be that hideous then make the output > configurable. But the default action should be as close to what Linux > produces as possible. > > If Linux software doesn't run, for any reason, then the emulator has failed. This is the issue of "bug comptatability". Let us evaluate the situation realistically, rather than wandering off ranting at the stars. We have had Linux ABI emulation for quite some time now (two, three years?). In that time there have been many improvements from many quarters, leading to a very useful feature set. There have also been a considerable number of problem reports, many of which have lead to fixes. In all those years, this is the first time that a problem has surfaced with the return value from the uname() call. It was also trivially resolved in a positive fashion after minor discussion with the software vendor. By my reading of this, there is no problem. mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Oct 11 00:22:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05417 for emulation-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05394; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00683; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:49:10 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710110719.QAA00683@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:54:17 -1000." <199710101754.HAA17182@pegasus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:49:09 +0930 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id AAA05398 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oh, just by the way: > When you're emulating another OS you want to get as close as possible > to acting just like that OS. Period. We aren't emulating another OS; we are providing an ABI compatability layer such that programs built for Linux can be run. We are FreeBSD. > If you find the `Linux' report to be that hideous then make the output > configurable. But the default action should be as close to what Linux > produces as possible. It already is, and several of us have already explained exactly how one would go about doing this. mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Oct 11 02:55:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11526 for emulation-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 02:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11515 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 02:55:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01213; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:21:43 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710110951.TAA01213@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jean-Marc Zucconi cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: twin 3.1.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:53:50 +0100." <9710101453.AA04045@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:21:42 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Did someone succeeded to compile twin 3.1.0? I don't know what to to do > with the following error: Yes, I was working on it a little while back. From recollection, there's not much changed in this file between 1.x and 3.x; you might be able to get the old patches to go in OK. There are some other build bogons that I have reported to Willows; I'm optomistic that they've been fixed recently, but not sure. If you're keen to chase me up on this, mail me at msmith@gsoft.com.au and I'll diff out what I've got for you tomorrow. mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Oct 11 06:56:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20311 for emulation-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 06:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20288; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 06:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02371; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05284; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:57:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:57:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: Tim Vanderhoek To: Richard Foulk cc: freebsd-emulation@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-Reply-To: <199710110256.QAA19979@pegasus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Richard Foulk wrote: > If it runs under Linux it should run under the emulator. Good emulation > is fully bug compatible. Linux uname() _DOES NOT_ return "Linux", it returns the name of the operating system! That just happens to be "Linux" on most implementations, but if you were to read the manpage, you would see that uname() on Linux is not guaranteed to return "Linux". http://www.ctyme.com/linuxdoc/MAN0810.HTM Similarly, if you read FreeBSD uname() manpage, you will see that we are not documented to return "FreeBSD". Ie. Our uname() can return "Linux", "Xenix", or "Win95" and still be working correctly. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Oct 11 15:42:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15770 for emulation-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:42:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15764 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:42:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05647; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19971011154149.56660@micron.mini.net> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:41:49 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: Mike Smith Cc: Thomas David Rivers , freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). References: <199710092227.SAA07605@lakes.dignus.com> <199710100303.MAA00470@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199710100303.MAA00470@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Oct 10, 1997 at 12:33:43PM +0930 X-file: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a question : How are these programs using the uname to detect if it's a linux system? are they jsut checkign to see that 'linux' exists in the uname string? If so, it seems to me that returning something like 'Linux-emu (FreeVBSD blah.blah.blah)' would be a good solution. Also, this means that programs like Netscape (linux binary) would properly return the fact that it is running under linux emulation under FreeBSD. Mike Smith stands accused of saying: > > This question should have been posted on the -emulation list, to where > it has been moved. > > > I have a program, written for Linux, that uses the uname() information > > as part of its license check... > > > > Unfortunately, the check fails... the company indicates that the > > failure is due to incorrect uname() information. > > > > So - does the uname() call under Linux emulation claim to be a LINUX > > box? - or - does it claim to be a FreeBSD box... > > Does the application make a uname() call, or does it attempt to run a > 'uname' executable? > > > Which should it do? Seems to me, for accurate Linux emulation, it should > > claim to be Linux... > > Do you see a console message saying: > > linux_emul(%d): olduname() not supported > > ? If not, the Linux uname will return the contents of the kern.ostype > sysctl. > > > - Opinions? - > > I am not sure that I agree that uname() should claim to be Linux when > we're not. Then again, perhaps we should use something more subtle to > indicate that we're a FreeBSD system. > > Why is this product so paranoid? > > mike > -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Oct 11 20:49:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26232 for emulation-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:49:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-emulation) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26226 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00872; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:16:11 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710120346.NAA00872@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jonathan Mini cc: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LINUX emulation and uname(3). In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:41:49 MST." <19971011154149.56660@micron.mini.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:16:10 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a question : How are these programs using the uname to detect if it's a > linux system? are they jsut checkign to see that 'linux' exists in the uname > string? Most scripts check the output of 'uname' for equivalence to 'Linux'. There is a dummy 'uname' script installed as part of the Linux emulation support that does the Right Thing in this regard. This generally means that you need to be running a Linux-mode shell before you start running the script. Applications calling uname() generally shouldn't (and don't) care what the system type returned is; the one that started this thread was a little un-savvy in that regard. > If so, it seems to me that returning something like > 'Linux-emu (FreeVBSD blah.blah.blah)' would be a good solution. Also, this > means that programs like Netscape (linux binary) would properly return the > fact that it is running under linux emulation under FreeBSD. Programs like the Linux Netscape correctly report that they are running on FreeBSD. If you are a Linux binary and uname() doesn't report 'Linux', it may report 'FreeBSD', 'NetBSD', 'OpenBSD' or almost anything else. Not handling this sensibly is a bug. mike