From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 00:13:45 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:13:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeffrey Hsu <hsu>
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  > But mostly, I wanted to know if there were any thread packages I 
  > _didn't_ already know about that might be better.  For example, "green     
  > threads", which Sun used for Java.

Trust me, the Green threads implementation is not better.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 01:51:38 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:50:16 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
References: <199702160006.QAA26620@freefall.freebsd.org> <199702160144.MAA02784@nemeton.com.au>
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As Giles Lean wrote:

> Does anyone have a nice banner for xdm with the FreeBSD logo?  This is
> another way to present a more "professional" appearance with low
> impact to the existing code.

No, but Hosokawa Tatsumi's (sp??) great Daemon Pictures were always
good for some Ah!'s and Oh!'s even at customer's sites.  (You
remember, the daemon looking around the landscape.)

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 02:11:39 1997
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From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
To: Joerg Wunsch <joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de>
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Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
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On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, J Wunsch wrote:

> As Giles Lean wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone have a nice banner for xdm with the FreeBSD logo?  This is
> > another way to present a more "professional" appearance with low
> > impact to the existing code.
> 
> No, but Hosokawa Tatsumi's (sp??) great Daemon Pictures were always
> good for some Ah!'s and Oh!'s even at customer's sites.  (You
> remember, the daemon looking around the landscape.)

Are those up for FTP somewhere?  What format are they in, anyway?
 
> -- 
> cheers, J"org
> 
> joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
> Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 02:22:03 1997
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On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > > I'm betting you won't be able to get away with distributing the
> > > sources, no matter how much you improve it, though there is nothing
> > > that actually says you can't (most likely, they will redefine
> > > "significant", as necessary, to prevent you from doing so).
> > 
> > Well, could there be any more significat change (other than completele 
> > and utterly changing it to something another) than chaning it to work in
> > another windowing environment? 
> 
> I'm betting (above) that Microsoft would deem that "not significant",
> since it would prevent you from doing something they'd prefer you don't
> do (make their give-away code run on a platform you don't have to buy
> from them: the point of "give-away" code is to encourage use of their
> platforms).
> 
> Also, it's "not significant" because it's a port to a platform which
> *should* already support the Microsoft interfaces, because by definition,
> Microsoft interfaces lead the industry and should be implemented on all
> platforms by you programmers from the unwashed masses.
> 

Well, there might yes be only one way to show it significantly changed -

	1) Diff says that over 50% of the text is different
	2) It no more is drop in (or easily drop in) replacement for MFC

In case 2) the purpose of doing anything to the MFC is defeated and you
will be allowed to distribute it. The trick is doing 1) while remaining a
drop-in replacement is the "right" way to go. It should be duable
considering the differences between X and win32.

	Sander

> 
> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org
> ---
> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
> or previous employers.
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 02:31:54 1997
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Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <33068F05.708D5F1B@xinside.com> from Jeremy Chatfield at "Feb 15, 97 09:37:25 pm"
To: jdc@xinside.com (Jeremy Chatfield)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:33:14 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hm@kts.org, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org
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In reply to Jeremy Chatfield who wrote:
> 
> What I'd like to see in FreeBSD, are a more complete set of things for
> handling VT's.  Fortunately, I think that the functions can be split to
> make it manageable, though I'll admit I've no intention of doing any of
> this work ;-)

Hmm, this is the showstopper EVERY time :(

> There are many ways to create a more flexible, more fully featured and
> safer VT switching mechanism than those in SVR4 and Linux.  Here are
> some desirable characteristics:
> 
> 1/	doesn't permit VGA BIOS control over switching, at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by that..

> 2/	uses a consistent body of knowledge for switching to a mode.

Yeah, but where do we GET that info from, SVGA cards appears at a 
rate that there is NO way we can follow up on that :(

> 3/	assumes that all switches that it does not make, will be returned to
> a safe mode.

Hmm, I think that the code should be able to return the card to a well
determined state, regardless of what have been done to it. We have no
way of demanding that others set up things correctly.

> 4/	is triggered whenever switching to a specific VT.

allready so
 
> 5/	has VT specific configuration modes.

you mean pr VT configs or what ??

> 6/	may use a VGA library, if one is present, so that games and other
> non-X graphics, can use a common knowledge base for safer switching.

That would be nice, but who is going to make the HUGE affort of
producing this, with support for bezillions of video chipsets ??

> The key points that I'm trying to make, are that it should not be the
> responsibility of the X Server to guess what knowledge base was used to
> set up a text mode, and that this is reasonably a function of an
> Operating System (providing controlled access to a shared resource). 
> Once you start to think like that, wider solutions with more features
> are possible.

As long as nobody REALLY cares about this, the X server is going to
HAVE to take on this responsibility.
I see only one really usable way, and that is to use the BIOS on
the card, utilizing the VM86() call that we still does not have.
This will give us the methods we need without us chasing a constantly
moving target.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 04:44:33 1997
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References: <Mutt.19970214175724.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>
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From: shanee@rabbit.augusta.de (Andreas Kohout)
Subject: Re: StarOffice Beta3 setup SEGFAULT on 2.2-B
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In article <Mutt.19970214175724.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>,
	regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld) writes:

> System: 2.2-B / 486-133
> Linux-lib 2.3 installed
> 
> Acroread works fine, so does Netscape
> Setup (linux.x86) ELF StarOffice setup blows up on execution (seg fault).
> 
> I tried rebuilding linux ld.so cache to no avail...

take a look at my home page:

	http://www.augusta.de/~shanee/StarOffice.html

-- 
Greetings, Andy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    running FreeBSD-current

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 07:45:20 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:41:58 +0100
To: hackers@freebsd.org (Robert Withrow)
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@dimaga.com>
Subject: Re: NULL as ((void*)0) (was Re: strlen() question) 
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At 09:58 AM 2/15/97 -0500, Robert Withrow wrote:
>eivind@dimaga.com said:
>> I hereby propose changing the default declaration of NULL under 
>> FreeBSD from #define NULL 0 to #define NULL ((void*)0) for better 
>> type-safety and ease of transition to other architechtures (e.g. 
>> Alpha). 
>
>Well, once you understand ANSI you get over this compulsion to
>sprinkle your code with NULL, so I don't see the point.

I think we'll have a more fruitful debate if we keep the religious points
out of this.  If you want to have a religious debate, feel free to take it
up on
-chat.



Eivind Eklund  perhaps@yes.no  http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/
eivind@freebsd.org


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 08:31:48 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:30:46 +0300 (MSK)
From: "Maxim A. Bolotin" <max@rnd.runnet.ru>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Acer ALTOS 7000 instalation problem.
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I've some prob. When It run kernel, and try to probe PCI bus, It hang.
I've old Acer, It's
ALTOS 7000, P5-66, ONLY EISA bus, I installed FreeBSD on It,
But I installed it on other comp, and than plug that HDD in ALTOS with
new kernel without PCI bus controller. What can you propose than ?
How can I turn off PCI probing ?
						Max.
-
Rostov State University   Computer Center
Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476
Russia, RUNNet               max@run.net.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 08:32:05 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:16:13 +0100
To: Giles Lean <giles@nemeton.com.au>
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@dimaga.com>
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
Cc: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>, jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby),
        hackers@freebsd.org
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At 12:44 PM 2/16/97 +1100, Giles Lean wrote:
>When everything works, it is quite pretty.  Syslog messages to the
>console and anything that talks directly to /dev/tty make a mess of
>it.  A "splash screen" is really going to have to be graphical to work
>reliably.

How difficult early is it possible to switch to another vty?  If this is
possible to do real early, we can have a splash screen on the second vty,
and "knowledgable people" will know they can switch back with ALT-F1.
All screens should be cleared on finished boot, of course, unless the
system is set up to boot directly to xdm.

>Does anyone have a nice banner for xdm with the FreeBSD logo?  This is
>another way to present a more "professional" appearance with low
>impact to the existing code.

I'd rather have a new banner/logo on the front web page.  The rest of the
graphics and pages are OK, but IMO the logo on the front page is ugly.
Compare this to the 'slickness' of the BSDi-pages, and you'll see that they
make a much better first impression.

But, of course, both changes are good :)

Eivind Eklund  perhaps@yes.no  http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/
eivind@freebsd.org


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 09:19:49 1997
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Subject: Can I initialize lptx from user space?
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From: sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor])
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Ave Hackers!

I hope this isn't the wrong forum for this; I'm no kernel hacker.  If
this is inappropriate, let me know.

I'd like to drive a lighting control system from the parallel port,
preferably using the standard lpt driver.

Question: Can I initialize the lpt device, i.e. pulse the -INIT
          output pin from user space (without having to change the
          driver)?

This seems to be what the driver does on startup anyway, I'm just
wondering if there's a way to reinvoke it later.

If anyone could help, I'd much appreciate it.  Please reply to me
directly; I'm not on the hackers list.

Cheers =8-} Mike

         

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 10:03:51 1997
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From: dkelly@hiwaay.net
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named) 
In-reply-to: Message from Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu> 
   of "Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:25:39 PST." <Pine.BSF.3.95.970215221100.22074A-100000@opus.cts.cwu.edu> 
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Thanks for the reply, its been most helpfull.

I don't have a recent CDROM of FreeBSD. OTOH I have:

nexgen: {253} ls -CF /usr/sup
ports-all/      src-all/        src-eBones/     src-secure/

...created by cvsup using the file I posted earlier (and see below).

What I'm really trying to do (and maybe "make release" doesn't do it?) is 
to build a -SNAP of my current sources in order to play with newer 
sysinstall's and clone my system to friend's machines without having to 
download the entire -GAMMA's.

Am I on the right track?

Chris Timmons wrote:
>
> David,
> 
> The example that John gave depended on the fact that user has a copy of
> the FreeBSD CVS repository on the local machine in the directory pointed
> at by the CVSROOT environment variable.  Most users don't need to do this,
> as the repository contains the information necessary to reconstruct every
> version of every source file that is/was part of FreeBSD since 2.0-R. 
> Right now that is about 345MB worth! 

No, I don't have that!

> What you can do instead is use John's CVSup tool to operate on copies of
> the CVS repository maintained on the various CVSup mirror machines; see
> the discussion in section 17.2 of the FreeBSD handbook (www.freebsd.org),
> and have a look at the examples in /usr/share/examples/cvsup on your
> system.  

Did that.

> Using CVSup it is very easy to track a particular revision of the _entire_
> source tree, by specifying a 'tag=<tag>' in your cvsupfile.  John would
> have to tell you if it would be possible to update most of your tree to
> one revision, while updating another portion (eg sendmail) to another, as
> in the example which used cvs and the local copy of the repository. 

I think I have RELENG_2_2 of src-all, src-eBones and src-secure, and 
current "." of ports.

> If you have some extra disk space and want to play with the CVS
> repository, start with a copy from the most recent FreeBSD cd-rom you have
> (hopefully 2.1.6), and then have a look at the cvs-supfile example in
> /usr/share/examples/cvsup.  Once you get that going, you could point
> CVSROOT at it, and then be able to manipulate your source tree in the
> manner described.

I'm not trying to do much in the manipulation of my source tree. Only thing 
I'm worried about is if it deletes my /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/NEXGEN and 
/usr/ports/distfiles/*. So I keep copies of those elsewhere. Only changed 
the following 5 lines out of /usr/share/examples/cvsup/cvs-supfile:

*default host=cvsup2.FreeBSD.org
*default release=cvs tag=RELENG_2_2
ports-all tag=.
src-eBones
src-secure

> p.s. try cvsup5 for your CVSup adventures, it's fast :)

Where do I find cvsup5? It doesn't appear in ports. I've got:
nexgen: {265} cvsup -v
CVSup client
Software version: REL_14_1_1
Protocol version: 14.0

Think I installed it from packages-current.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 10:09:11 1997
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Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: jdc@xinside.com (Jeremy Chatfield)
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[ ... long discussion on console modes ... ]

> 1/	doesn't permit VGA BIOS control over switching, at all.

Agree.

> 2/	uses a consistent body of knowledge for switching to a mode.

Agree.

> 3/	assumes that all switches that it does not make, will be returned to
> a safe mode.

Disagree (see below).

> 4/	is triggered whenever switching to a specific VT.

Disagree (see below).

> 5/	has VT specific configuration modes.

Agree.

> 6/	may use a VGA library, if one is present, so that games and other
> non-X graphics, can use a common knowledge base for safer switching.

Agree.


> I think that this means either an ioctl(), perhaps with a user level
> daemon that does the work, or possibly, using the X approach, an
> entirely user level process, perhaps connected to a virtual terminal
> manager.

Here's the problem.  If you invoke a user level process to do this,
then it is useless for providing a virtual console for a kernel
debugger, and it's useless for graceful panic handling.

The *only* way to do this safely is to give the kernel driver specific
knowledge of all allowable video modes so that it doesn't have to rely
on a user space process to do its job.

This means X gets its nose *out* of the mode settings and card I/O
address range, etc..

The driver, by default, would be VGA-aware, and you would have to
load a better (card specific) driver to provide more (card specific)
modes.  Write-only registers would have to be shadowed in software
so that the state was recoverable (for instance, during a resume
following a suspend, in which the video hardware was APM powered-down,
or "recovery" of system state after a weekend of being shut of using
a "save-state/restore-state" shutdown.

The driver would also have to be able to report, to user space programs,
the available modes supported by the currently loaded driver... a
parametric "INT 10 mode select" for protected mode OS's, in effect
(the real mode "INT 10 mode select" should be redesigned to be
parametric as well, but that's neither here nor there...).

This was first discussed in the fall of 1993, and the LKM system was
implemented in early 1994 for the purpose of providing a facility for
loading card-specific console drivers.



> a)	initialisation program on first switching to a VT.  This could be
> used to start a system monitor whenever there's no process on a
> prticular VT, or to start a login program only when switching to that VT
> for the first time (or when there's no controlling program for that VT).

This can be handled using pseudo-DCD signalling.  DCD is low until the
first time you switch to a VT.


> b)	a program that is run each time the screen is switched to; this could
> be used for setting odd modes.

NO.  This violates the abstraction.


> c)	optional mode setting on each VT switch.  For example, this would
> permit a switch from the X Server to go to 80x25 on VT1, and then the VT
> manager would catch the switch and reselect 132x25 with a blue
> background and yellow text with Cyrillic font.

Yes.  This would be automatic, in any case, with the original 1993
design.


> d)	experiment mode, in which various modes could be tried and safe ones
> marked for use in a per system restrictions file, for use by the
> configuration program.  This should be run by the System Admin, so that
> users can only select between modes that do not upset the screen or
> graphics board and risk system integrity.

Bad, bad, bad.  This implies the card-specific drivers are "scripted"
in the generic driver, instead of replacing the generic driver.  This
is bad because it implies state information that did not result from
a standard probe sequence.

Clearly, there needs to be some way to "fine-tune" settings for the
card-specific drivers, but just as clearly, these vagries are limited
to replacing a "monitor database"... and a "monitor database" is a
preferrable, if more difficult to implement, soloution.

> e)	screen driven configuration program, feeding a plain text file to
> allow easy per-system and per-user configurations of modes and programs.

Have you seen the Win95 display configuration?


> The key points that I'm trying to make, are that it should not be the
> responsibility of the X Server to guess what knowledge base was used to
> set up a text mode, and that this is reasonably a function of an
> Operating System (providing controlled access to a shared resource). 
> Once you start to think like that, wider solutions with more features
> are possible.

And it should not be the responsibility of the X server (or any other
user space code) to restore card settings.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 10:10:47 1997
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Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:09:31 -0700 (MST)
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> > Does anyone have a nice banner for xdm with the FreeBSD logo?  This is
> > another way to present a more "professional" appearance with low
> > impact to the existing code.
> 
> No, but Hosokawa Tatsumi's (sp??) great Daemon Pictures were always
> good for some Ah!'s and Oh!'s even at customer's sites.  (You
> remember, the daemon looking around the landscape.)

Did you ever see the original "Die Hard" movie?

The computer system they had to break into had a nive graphical login.

It also claimed to be "BSD 9.2".


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 10:26:05 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:26:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu>
To: dkelly@hiwaay.net
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named) 
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Hmmmm.... doing a 'make release' without a CVS repository might be a
little hard.  It checks out a revision of the source for the release you
are building from CVS. However, you could certainly look through
/usr/src/release/Makefile to see if you could short-circuit things a bit
to use a copy of your local sources (skipping CVS.) 

One other thing you will want to know if you start rolling your own
releases:  you'll need to be running a kernel with the vn pseudo-device,
as in:

pseudo-device   vn              #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device)

If you have a slow machine and start a make release without running a
kernel that has this compiled in - you will get an unpleasant surprise :(


You don't NEED to have the CD-ROM to get the CVS repository, particularly
if you are in a LAN environment and have 56KB or greater connectivity. 
Doing the initial download over a slow dialup is likely to be
unsatisfying. 

-Chris


On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote:

> Thanks for the reply, its been most helpfull.
> 
> I don't have a recent CDROM of FreeBSD. OTOH I have:
> 
> nexgen: {253} ls -CF /usr/sup
> ports-all/      src-all/        src-eBones/     src-secure/
> 
> ...created by cvsup using the file I posted earlier (and see below).
> 
> What I'm really trying to do (and maybe "make release" doesn't do it?) is 
> to build a -SNAP of my current sources in order to play with newer 
> sysinstall's and clone my system to friend's machines without having to 
> download the entire -GAMMA's.
> 
> Am I on the right track?
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 10:31:54 1997
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To: dkelly@HiWAAY.net
Cc: jdp@polstra.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:33:17 -0600"
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:31:36 +0100
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> 	nexgen: {13}  cvs co -P -r RELENG_2_2 src
> 	cvs: in directory .:
> 	cvs: must set the CVSROOT environment variable
> 	cvs: or specify the '-d' option to cvs.
> 	cvs [co aborted]: You don't have a CVSROOT environment variable
> 	nexgen: {14} 
> 
> This is a quick way to get almost the exact same error message as I
> got attempting to roll my own release (2.2-GAMMA, sometime last
> week).  It was suggested that I'd have the CVS stuff if I used cvsup
> to be current. So I studied /usr/share/examples/cvsup/cvs-supfile. I
> *think* it required slight modifications. This is my cvsup-2.2 with
> comments removed:
> 
> 	*default host=cvsup2.FreeBSD.org
> 	*default base=/usr
> 	*default prefix=/usr
> 	*default release=cvs tag=RELENG_2_2
> 	*default delete use-rel-suffix
> 	*default compress
> 	src-all
> 	ports-all tag=.
> 
> Think I needed the tag= items to get the proper files? And I changed
> prefix so it would act on /usr/src and /usr/ports without moving
> them to /home/ncvs. Maybe this was a mistake?

Yes.  If you want the full CVS tree, you should probably put it
anywhere *but* directly in /usr.  That will put the cvs files under
/usr/src/...,  but there you want the source tree, which is what
you get when you *checkout* from CVS.  I'm using /usr/cvs; /home/ncvs
or wherever you have disk space is also fine.

> So back to the original question: I'm lacking a CVSROOT and I don't
> have a ~/.cvsrc. How to I get there from here? Is there something I
> need in addition to src-all in my cvsup file?

Well, as the error message says, you need to "set the CVSROOT
environment variable or specify the -d option to cvs".  This
tells cvs where it can find the cvs tree.  If you want to
be able to "make release" you *must* set the CVSROOT env.var.
first; also those example commands that was posted assume that
you have CVSROOT set.  My "do-cvs-update" script looks like:

cd /usr
cvs -q -d /usr/cvs update -d -P -r RELENG_2_2 src
cvs -q -d /usr/cvs update -d -P ports

So I get the 2.2 source tree but current ports, and of course it
won't work unless your CVS tree is in /usr/cvs.

Hope this helps; this covers almost all my cvs knowledge :-)

  -  Arne H. J.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 10:37:12 1997
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From: dkelly@hiwaay.net
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named) 
In-reply-to: Message from Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu> 
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Chris Timmons replied:
> 
> Hmmmm.... doing a 'make release' without a CVS repository might be a
> little hard.  It checks out a revision of the source for the release you
> are building from CVS. However, you could certainly look through
> /usr/src/release/Makefile to see if you could short-circuit things a bit
> to use a copy of your local sources (skipping CVS.) 

I'll look into hacking release's Makefile.

> One other thing you will want to know if you start rolling your own
> releases:  you'll need to be running a kernel with the vn pseudo-device,
> as in:
> 
> pseudo-device   vn              #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device)
> 
> If you have a slow machine and start a make release without running a
> kernel that has this compiled in - you will get an unpleasant surprise :(

I read in release/Makefile that I needed vn. Forgot if that was before or 
after something happened that I needed it for. Whatever the case I don't 
remember any tremendously unpleasant surprises. Maybe I added vn to my 
kernel in time. Or somebody detected the lack of vn in the Makefile and 
aborted?


> You don't NEED to have the CD-ROM to get the CVS repository, particularly
> if you are in a LAN environment and have 56KB or greater connectivity. 
> Doing the initial download over a slow dialup is likely to be
> unsatisfying. 

Ah, I don't have that kind of network connection at home and at work its thru a firewall that doesn't do socks.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 10:54:21 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:40:36 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
References: <Mutt.19970216105016.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> <Pine.BSF.3.91.970216021050.14933A-100000@narcissus.ml.org>
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As Snob Art Genre wrote:

> > No, but Hosokawa Tatsumi's (sp??) great Daemon Pictures were always
> > good for some Ah!'s and Oh!'s even at customer's sites.  (You
> > remember, the daemon looking around the landscape.)
> 
> Are those up for FTP somewhere?  What format are they in, anyway?

They used to be available for HTTP access, but i eventually forgot the
URL (and i do have them in one resolution only myself).

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

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From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
References: <3.0.32.19970216171612.00c30100@dimaga.com>
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In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970216171612.00c30100@dimaga.com>; from Eivind Eklund on Feb 16, 1997 17:16:13 +0100
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As Eivind Eklund wrote:

> How difficult early is it possible to switch to another vty?  If this is
> possible to do real early, we can have a splash screen on the second vty,
> and "knowledgable people" will know they can switch back with ALT-F1.

Doing something on another VTY would require a working kernel memory
allocator.  Switching itself would require working interrupts.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 11:52:09 1997
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From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor])
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Can I initialize lptx from user space?
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As Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor] wrote:

> I'd like to drive a lighting control system from the parallel port,
> preferably using the standard lpt driver.
> 
> Question: Can I initialize the lpt device, i.e. pulse the -INIT
>           output pin from user space (without having to change the
>           driver)?

I don't think so.  But i think it should be a trivial task to add this
kind of stuff to the lptioctl() function.  You don't really need to be
a kernel hacker for this, as long as you understand a little C at all.
The file in question is sys/i386/isa/lpt.c.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 11:52:42 1997
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From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: dkelly@hiwaay.net
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named)
References: <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu> <199702161835.MAA02796@nexgen.ampr.org>
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As dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote:

> Ah, I don't have that kind of network connection at home and at work
> its thru a firewall that doesn't do socks.

Still no excuse.  The only excuse is if you don't wanna sacrifice the
disk space for the CVS repository.  The initial deltas for CTM are
available on various -SNAP CDs, and you can keep up even with an
email-through-UUCP-only connection (as i still do right now).  The
only thing is you need to FTP all the CTM deltas between your SNAP CD
and the current CTM level.

I don't have an idea about what hiwaay.net might be, but Steve Price
might not be far away from you (sprice@hiwaay.net), and i'm sure you
could get a tape with a CVS tree from him.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 13:21:00 1997
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From: torstenb@solar.tlk.com (Torsten Blum)
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
In-Reply-To: <199702161809.LAA07588@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 16, 97 11:09:31 am"
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:19:49 +0100 (MET)
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Terry Lambert wrote:

> Did you ever see the original "Die Hard" movie?
> 
> The computer system they had to break into had a nive graphical login.
> 
> It also claimed to be "BSD 9.2".

Hm, I have "Die Hard" on LaserDisc and saw it several times, but I never
saw the "BSD 9.2" login screen. I just checked it and it's true.
The following appears on the screen:

[Logo] CEO Workstation
 
Nakatomi Socrates BSD 9.2
Z-Level Central Core
Preliminary Clearnace Approved
Subroute: Finance/Alpha Access
Authorization: 
Ultra-Gate Key>
Daily Cypher> 

Unfortunately I don't have a grabber card. If I can find someone here in
Munich with a Mattrox Meteor...

 -tb

-- 
         Torsten Blum, Friedensstraße 13a, 82110 Gemering, Germany

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 13:32:47 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 15:30:37 -0600
From: joed@ksu.edu (Joe Diehl)
To: Steve.Howe@ice-bbs.net, hmmm@ice-bbs.net
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: un-ethical isp
References: <293_9702030127@ice-bbs.net>
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Steve Howe writes:
> 
> Dear FreeBSDers,
> 
> because of your excellent OS and superb knowledge, i/we decided to use
> FreeBSD in projects for the government subcontracting starting about 2
> years ago.  

Woot, glad to hear it... 8-)

*** Disclaimer--  I am not offering any legal advice, simply a couple of
*** pointers.  I am not an attourny, nor do I claim any real knowledge
*** about legal issues.  You should discuss these matters with an 
*** attourny.  This information is present as is, without any warranty
*** (express or implied).  I take no liability for any damages incurred 
*** from the use of this information.

Okie had to get that out of my system ;)

> an associate and boss became upset due to their fear of
> UNIX and a sort of conspiracy developed ...
> 
> anyway - unbeknownst to me, the owners of my isp (alaska.net) were former
> associates this vengeful/ignorant co-worker and boss, and together
> (as i came close to finishing a project way ahead of their NT
> project) they (isp) engaged in ping flooding all my machines
> on my networks, grinding all my work to a complete halt for
> a week, and additionally, after tracing the source of the
> pinging and sending some nasty email, my isp transferred
> all my email i had ever written on my personal/private
> account to my boss and co-worker for review, ie, they
> were looking for some goodies to get rid of me.
> they hired private investigators, etc. but i
> was squeaky clean, although things have
> become miserable enough to quit. :)
> 
> ANYWAY - my question is, although my lawyer says my isp may be
> liable for slander, is there any other recourse i can take for
> them giving 2 1/2 years of my email from my personal/private
> account to my boss and co-workers?  i wouldn't want laws,
> but i despise un-ethical behavior such as this!
> 
> it included health information related to my family,
> love letters :), thoughts, etc.  all kinds of stuff
> you'd never want anyone to see!

(1) For ping flooding you which caused your production work to stop
    I'd look into laws dealing with denial of service attacks..  I've
    heard that a denial of service attack is a felony under federal 
    law.  Note that I have yet to actually read a bill, nor do I have a
    reference. 

    At the very least I'm sure the is grounds for a hefty civil suit
    for damages incurred for the downtime.  If you lose this bid you
    *may* also be able to recover lost revenue from alaska.net and/or
    this other person.

(2) They're forwarding your *private* email, this is illegal under
    the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986:

Section 2701 reads, in part, "whoever-- ... (2) intentionally exceeds an 
authorization to access that facility; and thereby obtains, ... 
access to ... electronic communication while it is in electronic 
storage in such system" shall be subject to fines and/or imprisonment.

-- http://www.leepfrog.com/E-Law/E-Law/Part_VIII.html


Sources for further information:

  o CERT (www.cert.org)
  o Electronic Frontier Foundation (www.eff.org)
  o http://www.leepfrog.com/E-Law/E-Law/Contents.html


I would also notify CERT first, and then with their help (if you can get it)
approach alaska.net and alaska.net's upstream provider(s)... I'd personally
be trying to get alaska.net blocked at some routers, and/or blackholed.

You also may wish to contact the Better Business Burrow or some such 
organization...  I as a consumer would want to know if my ISP just mailed
2.5 years worth of private email to someone's boss.  Just be careful that
you don't get slapped with a law suit (I'm not up on these legal issues).


> (pgp? - well not everyone i wrote to can use it!)

Teach them the secure side of the force ;)

 
> thanks ...  please mail to hmmm@ice-bbs.net.
> a friend/co-worker is allowing me use of this
> account as i have no isp currently ...

Woot, what a nice friend.. Buy him/her a beer or sumptin.  :)

---
Joe Diehl <joed@ksu.edu>
PGP Key: finger joed@unix.ksu.edu

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 14:13:09 1997
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On 12 Feb 1997, Zach Heilig wrote:

> Ken Wong <wong@a17b32.rogerswave.ca> writes:
> 
> > why isn't the str*cpy check the BP (base pointer?) register
> > and use it to gaurd against stack over right?
> 
> Are you certain that all strings are allocated on the stack?  I'm
> pretty sure there are some in the bss and others that are malloc()'d
> as well...

If that was the case, then there is not problem with stack overflow.
instead, you will get a seg fault or bus error when gone beyond.

Ken

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 14:33:32 1997
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To: dkelly@hiwaay.net
cc: Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
        pds@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:02:33 CST."
             <199702161802.MAA02552@nexgen.ampr.org> 
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:31:19 -0800
Message-ID: <15458.856132279@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> What I'm really trying to do (and maybe "make release" doesn't do it?) is 
> to build a -SNAP of my current sources in order to play with newer 
> sysinstall's and clone my system to friend's machines without having to 
> download the entire -GAMMA's.

You need the CVS repository, e.g. you need to use CVSUP but your tag
value, if any, should be `.' and your release name should be cvs.  Here's
how I update my own CVS repository:

----- cut here -----
*default prefix=/home/ncvs base=/a host=cvsup.FreeBSD.org release=cvs delete compress use-rel=suffix

## Main Source Tree
src-all
src-eBones
src-secure

# Other stuff
ports-all
www
----- cut here -----

Once you have the full CVS repository online, make sure that your
CVSROOT environment variable points to it (``setenv CVSROOT /home/ncvs''
for my example above) and then go do this:

cd /usr/src/release
make release BUILDNAME=3.0-MY-SNAP CHROOTDIR=/some/big/filesystem/release

An entire release will be built in /some/big/filesystem/release and you
will have a full FTP-type installation in /some/big/filesystem/release/R/ftp
when you're done.  If you want to build your SNAP along some other branch
than -current, you can also add RELEASETAG=SOMETAG to the make release
command line above, e.g. RELEASETAG=RELENG_2_2 would build an up-to-the-
minute 2.2 GAMMA snapshot.

This should probably be a FAQ. :-)

					Jordan



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 14:55:58 1997
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To: Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu>
cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pds@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:26:00 PST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.970216101745.23738B-100000@opus.cts.cwu.edu> 
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:53:28 -0800
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> One other thing you will want to know if you start rolling your own
> releases:  you'll need to be running a kernel with the vn pseudo-device,
> as in:
> 
> pseudo-device   vn              #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device)

Whoops!  Thanks much for the reminder, this is indeed the case.  Peter -
please add this paragraph to the how-to-make-a-release FAQ entry
you're writing up for this. :-) :-)

						Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 15:18:12 1997
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Message-Id: <199702162317.JAA05690@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Can I initialize lptx from user space?
In-Reply-To: <y9lk9o87jom.fsf@modas.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> from "Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]" at "Feb 16, 97 06:19:21 pm"
To: sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor])
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:47:27 +1030 (CST)
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Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor] stands accused of saying:
> 
> I hope this isn't the wrong forum for this; I'm no kernel hacker.  If
> this is inappropriate, let me know.
> 
> I'd like to drive a lighting control system from the parallel port,
> preferably using the standard lpt driver.

No, you don't want to use the 'lpt' driver.

> Question: Can I initialize the lpt device, i.e. pulse the -INIT
>           output pin from user space (without having to change the
>           driver)?

No/Yes.

The process goes like this :

 - disable the 'lpt' driver.
 - open /dev/io in your program (change its permissions, or run your program
   as root).
 - use the in*() and out*() functions in <machine/cpufunc.h> to perform
   your I/O.

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 15:21:04 1997
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Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970216171612.00c30100@dimaga.com> from Eivind Eklund at "Feb 16, 97 05:16:13 pm"
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Eivind Eklund stands accused of saying:
> 
> How difficult early is it possible to switch to another vty?  If this is
> possible to do real early, we can have a splash screen on the second vty,
> and "knowledgable people" will know they can switch back with ALT-F1.
> All screens should be cleared on finished boot, of course, unless the
> system is set up to boot directly to xdm.

The splash-screen is actually implemented as an alternate display mode for
a single VT.  But you're not paying attention : it is NOT POSSIBLE to 
detect keystrokes on the console while the device probes are running,
because interrupts are Turned Off.

Once interrupts are enabled, the hotkey toggles the screen.

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 16:31:21 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:33:17 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: Eivind Eklund <eivind@dimaga.com>, giles@nemeton.com.au,
        avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:

> Eivind Eklund stands accused of saying:
> > 
> > How difficult early is it possible to switch to another vty?  If this is
> > possible to do real early, we can have a splash screen on the second vty,
> > and "knowledgable people" will know they can switch back with ALT-F1.
> > All screens should be cleared on finished boot, of course, unless the
> > system is set up to boot directly to xdm.
> 
> The splash-screen is actually implemented as an alternate display mode for
> a single VT.  But you're not paying attention : it is NOT POSSIBLE to 
> detect keystrokes on the console while the device probes are running,
> because interrupts are Turned Off.
> 
> Once interrupts are enabled, the hotkey toggles the screen.

Seems to me that the most logical and expedient thing to so is to put a 
little more text into the "boot: " message.  Something like 
"boot -t for text-mode boot".  The other idea which was tossed about some 
months ago was to skip the splash screen if the image file (/splash.tiff) is 
not located in /, which makes it very easy to turn splash on/off for the 
next boot.

Danny


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 16:38:56 1997
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Message-Id: <199702170037.LAA06286@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.970217112912.8268F-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 17, 97 11:33:17 am"
To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:07:54 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, eivind@dimaga.com, giles@nemeton.com.au,
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Daniel O'Callaghan stands accused of saying:
> 
> Seems to me that the most logical and expedient thing to so is to put a 
> little more text into the "boot: " message.

There really isn't room for this.

>  Something like  "boot -t for text-mode boot".  

In an environment where the splash is likely to be useful, the '-v'
output is a viable alternative.  The splash code (now) doesn't display
the splash if the bootverbose (-v) flag is set.

> The other idea which was tossed about some 
> months ago was to skip the splash screen if the image file (/splash.tiff) is 
> not located in /, which makes it very easy to turn splash on/off for the 
> next boot.

That's no good, as was mentioned back then; the root filesystem isn't
available early enough.  Bruce's new readfile() stiff OTOH is ideal for
this, and I'm looking at what can be done in this regard.

> Danny

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 17:24:56 1997
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:23:55 -0800 (PST)
From: John-Mark Gurney <jmg@nike.efn.org>
Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:

> The splash-screen is actually implemented as an alternate display mode for
> a single VT.  But you're not paying attention : it is NOT POSSIBLE to 
> detect keystrokes on the console while the device probes are running,
> because interrupts are Turned Off.

this may sound like a stupid question.. but can you check the
keyboard between probes to see if there are any keypresses....  I remeber
here a post a few days ago saying the keyboard control had a 16byte
buffer.. so the keypress would still be around wouldn't it?  it just needs
to get pulled...

just a thought...

John-Mark

gurney_j@efn.org
http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/
Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954   (FreeBSD Box)

Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 17:32:17 1997
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Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns 
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Just a thought, but what about using some sort of generic frame buffer driver 
in the kernel.  I dont think it should be the responsibility of the Xserver or 
anything else to twiddle with the cards settings directly.  The kernel would
just need to know a few card specific things about setting timings, etc.  The
VT system, and X would both be a consumer of this interface.  They would
issue ioctls or such requesting certain resolutions(the default vga, 
resolutions
specified by the user in the kernel config, etc), or possibly to test/set 
timings.  This would also allow the creation of a machine independant console 
driver--something that may not be immediately useful, but would be nice in the 
future.  There would hopefully be no more problems having different X/vt
resolutions.  I've personally always wanted to have them identical, using a
nice tiny font, and not having to wait for the monitor to re-sync, or the card 
to reset its timings upon switches.

I'm not sure, but I think that netbsd has something like this for sun and some
other architectures, and also a generic console that uses it.  I suppose X must
also have some of the necessary code as will if they work together.

For what its worth,
chris



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 18:37:11 1997
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From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
cc: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.org>
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
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On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:
> 
> > The splash-screen is actually implemented as an alternate display mode for
> > a single VT.  But you're not paying attention : it is NOT POSSIBLE to 
> > detect keystrokes on the console while the device probes are running,
> > because interrupts are Turned Off.
> 
> this may sound like a stupid question.. but can you check the
> keyboard between probes to see if there are any keypresses....  I remeber
> here a post a few days ago saying the keyboard control had a 16byte
> buffer.. so the keypress would still be around wouldn't it?  it just needs
> to get pulled...

During probes hit <Scroll-Lock><PgUp><PgUp>.  Nothing happens, but when 
probing finishes, the screen jumps back.  This is a possibility for 
thought, but I'll let Mike give a more definitive comment.  I don't know 
aything about checking the kbd between probes.

Danny

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 19:26:34 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702170322.NAA07336@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970216172119.2917k-100000@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Feb 16, 97 05:23:55 pm"
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John-Mark Gurney stands accused of saying:
> 
> this may sound like a stupid question.. but can you check the
> keyboard between probes to see if there are any keypresses....  I remeber

We've already been over all this; I've proposed a between-probes hook,
but I don't think that anyone would be particularly keen on it as a concept.

It would be just as easy for the console output code to check whenever
it's printing output, which happens between/during probes; perhaps on
every newline.

Soren?

> John-Mark

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Feb 16 21:56:20 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702170554.QAA08423@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: PCI LKM: How to find object file from PCI ID ...
In-Reply-To: <19970131213621.EQ13588@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> from Stefan Esser at "Jan 31, 97 09:36:21 pm"
To: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:24:51 +1030 (CST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
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Stefan Esser stands accused of saying:
> Hi all!

G'day!

> I've been thinking about the best way to have a user-land program
> determine, whether any of the object files in the /lkm directory
> might be appropriate for some PCI device, for which no driver 
> exists in the kernel.

...

> Since USB uses very similar device IDs and will require loading and
> unloading of LKMs whenever a device is connected or deconnected (USB
> supports hot-pluggable devices !), I would like to find a solution 
> that applies to USB, too. It is for that reason, that I consider the
> real and CPU times required to identify the LKM ...

I don't think that this is a serious issue; device arrival/departure is
likely to be a fairly rare event.  A generalised module identification
mechanism would be neat.

At the moment, the pccard stuff works reasonably well; the user-space
tool waits for an 'arrival' announcement of some sort, which it then
interprets and performs the appropriate action(s).  This mechanism
could easily be extended to include other devices (when the user-space
program starts, it's presented with 'arrival' messages for
already-present PCI etc.  devices).

> My prefered solution would be 1), currently, since only a low number of
> PCI drivers exist. The file of PCI IDs could be automatically maintained 
> by each drivers install target in the Makefile.

This maps to the current technique used by the PCCARD people.  It's 
reaching its limits wrt. maintainability.

> 3+4+5) put all the information into the LKM binary, and need no further
> steps to be performed, besides moving the LKM in an agreed-upon directory.
> I do not like the overhead of looking into some 30 files, which easily
> might become 3 times as many, if more drivers are made available as LKM.

If the overhead is a real problem, have a tool similar to ldconfig that 
processes all the files once and creates an index.  Come to think of it,
you could almost use ldconfig as-is 8)

> Regards, STefan

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 00:51:07 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:42:42 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
References: <199702161033.LAA01362@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199702170127.TAA02237@nyx.pr.mcs.net>
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As Chris Csanady wrote:

> Just a thought, but what about using some sort of generic frame
> buffer driver in the kernel.  I dont think it should be the
> responsibility of the Xserver or anything else to twiddle with the
> cards settings directly.  The kernel would just need to know a few
> card specific things about setting timings, etc.

Basically: Yes!

However: have you ever counted the number of hardware-dependant code
lines in XFree86?  No?  Then you don't know what you're talking
about. :~)  Last time i counted, we spoke about some 200+ Klines of C
code. :-O

Have a look at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pcvt/set2061/, just to get the
feeling for _one_ (now already fairly aged) piece of hardware that
needs to be supported, the ICD2061A clock synthesizer.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 01:36:02 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702170935.UAA10237@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: 2.2 splashskreen kit ready for testing
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:05:55 +1030 (CST)
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Ok, cut yer whining.  If you want a splash screen on your 2.2 system, grab
 ftp://gsoft.com.au/pub/2.2_splashkit.tar.gz
and follow the instructions.

Note that you will want to be fairly up-to-date with 2.2 for this to
work; the diff is based on v1.182.2.10, much earlier than this and
you're likely to have problems.  This should apply OK to -current
strains as well.

Feedback appreciated.

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 01:45:05 1997
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Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
In-Reply-To: <199702170322.NAA07336@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Feb 17, 97 01:52:21 pm"
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
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In reply to Michael Smith who wrote:
> John-Mark Gurney stands accused of saying:
> > 
> > this may sound like a stupid question.. but can you check the
> > keyboard between probes to see if there are any keypresses....  I remeber
> 
> We've already been over all this; I've proposed a between-probes hook,
> but I don't think that anyone would be particularly keen on it as a concept.
> 
> It would be just as easy for the console output code to check whenever
> it's printing output, which happens between/during probes; perhaps on
> every newline.
> 
> Soren?

Hmm, well, I could add a check for char input at the right places in
syscons, all I need is to find out when we are finished probing...


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 02:10:55 1997
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702170920.KAA00708@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: mfs & swap relationship
To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:20:28 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970215130347.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 15, 97 01:03:28 pm
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> Hmm, although this seems to be a crock as well as my version, perhaps
> we should stuff a generic `mfs' entry into /etc/disktab, and document
> its use in the EXAMPLES section.  Can you send your version to me?

In /etc/fstab for the diskless machine I have

    wind:/usr/diskless_root  /    nfs     ro,-r=1024        0 0
    /dev/null                /var mfs     rw,-T=myformat    0 0 
    wind:/usr                /usr nfs     ro,-r=1024        1 1

in /etc/disktab the entry is

    myformat:\      dt=ST506:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#256:nc#1:\
        :pb#12288:ob#0:tb=swap:\
	:pc#12288:oc#0:

(since I only have swap on that...).

> (It will only make sense if you can override the actual size from the
> commandline.)

I suppose the "-s" flag to mount_mfs should work, although I did not
try (and I cannot right now since I am fighting with the 21140-AC)

	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 02:21:47 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:18:22 +0100
From: peter@hw.nl (Peter Korsten)
To: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk, peter@hw.nl
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: MS Word file format (was: MIME applications for FreeBSD)
References: <"40ba-970216001031-F016*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=NET-TEL <Mutt.19970215224320.peter@grendel.> <Mutt.19970216192218.peter@grendel.>
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(I've gotten more questions about where to find the document and I
expect more on my UUCP-node, therefore I Cc it to 'hackers'. It's a
bit off-topic though, sorry for that.)

Peter Korsten shared with us:
> Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk shared with us:
> > > Actually, someone (a student?) at the Technical University of Berlin
> > > has described the general Microsoft OLE file format. He states that
> > > this he isn't sure about the format and all variables, therefore
> > > he calls it the "LAOLA" file format. (Check it out with Alta Vista!)
> > > He also provides a library in Perl and a program to convert a MS
> > > Word document into an ASCII file.
> > 
> > Any chance of a more precise reference?  I have tried everything I can
> > think of in AltaVista, but I can't find it.

The document can be found here:

	http://wwwwbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~schwartz/pmh/

- Peter
-- 
Peter Korsten     peter@hw.nl     http://www.hw.nl/~peter/
Haesenbos, Wetzels & Van der Heijden Multimedia Support

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 03:12:28 1997
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702171021.LAA02229@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: File system/disk recovery tools ?
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:21:52 +0100 (MET)
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Hi,

one of our IDE disks failed (btw these WDC AC31600H are particularly
bad, we have had at least 10 failed units out of about 20; luckily they come with a 3 yr guarantee!)

    Feb 17 11:38:26 labinfo2 /kernel: wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): <WDC
    AC31600H>, 32-bit, multi-block-16
    Feb 17 11:38:26 labinfo2 /kernel: wd2: 1549MB (3173184 sectors),
    3148 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S

and now we are stuck with this:

    labinfo2# fsck /dev/wd2a
    ** /dev/rwd2a

    CANNOT READ: BLK 16
    CONTINUE? [yn] y

    Feb 17 12:02:54 labinfo2 /kernel: wd2a: hard error reading fsbn
    17 of 16-31 (wd2 bn 17; cn 0 tn 0 sn 17)wd2: status
    59<seekdone,drq,err> error 40<uncorr>
    Feb 17 12:03:01 labinfo2 /kernel: wd2a: hard error reading fsbn
    17 (wd2 bn 17; cn 0 tn 0 sn 17)wd2: status 59<seekdone,drq,err>
    error 40<uncorr>
    ...

    THE FOLLOWING DISK SECTORS COULD NOT BE READ: 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22,
    25, 29, 30, 31,
    Floating exception (core dumped)

is there any way/tool to recover the data on the disk ?

	Thanks
	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 04:11:26 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702171210.WAA11151@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
In-Reply-To: <199702171021.LAA02229@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Feb 17, 97 11:21:52 am"
To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:40:48 +1030 (CST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Luigi Rizzo stands accused of saying:

> one of our IDE disks failed (btw these WDC AC31600H are particularly
> bad, we have had at least 10 failed units out of about 20; luckily
> they come with a 3 yr guarantee!)

Hmm, we had one die on us too, similar errors.

>     labinfo2# fsck /dev/wd2a
>     ** /dev/rwd2a
> 
>     CANNOT READ: BLK 16
>     CONTINUE? [yn] y
> 
>     Feb 17 12:02:54 labinfo2 /kernel: wd2a: hard error reading fsbn
>     17 of 16-31 (wd2 bn 17; cn 0 tn 0 sn 17)wd2: status
>     59<seekdone,drq,err> error 40<uncorr>
>     Feb 17 12:03:01 labinfo2 /kernel: wd2a: hard error reading fsbn
>     17 (wd2 bn 17; cn 0 tn 0 sn 17)wd2: status 59<seekdone,drq,err>
>     error 40<uncorr>
>     ...
> 
>     THE FOLLOWING DISK SECTORS COULD NOT BE READ: 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22,
>     25, 29, 30, 31,
>     Floating exception (core dumped)
> 
> is there any way/tool to recover the data on the disk ?

dd the whole disk off onto a file and mount it on a vnode?  You might
have to reconstruct the label and such, and using fsck's '-b' option
may also be required.  It kinda depends on whats actually wrong with
the disk.

> 	Luigi

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 04:13:41 1997
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To: peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl (Peter Korsten)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: MIME applications for FreeBSD
References: <199702130839.TAA00435@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>	<199702121715.KAA00715@phaeton.artisoft.com>	<Mutt.19970215224320.peter@grendel.>
From: Paul Richards <p.richards@elsevier.co.uk>
Date: 17 Feb 1997 12:12:45 +0000
In-Reply-To: peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl's message of Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:43:20 +0100
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peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl (Peter Korsten) writes:

> John Birrell shared with us:
> > 
> > We are prevented from reverse engineering by the licence for msword
> > (I guess, since other MS products have that clause). MS is unlikely
> > to publicly document Word file format.
> 
> Actually, someone (a student?) at the Technical University of Berlin
> has described the general Microsoft OLE file format. He states that
> this he isn't sure about the format and all variables, therefore
> he calls it the "LAOLA" file format. (Check it out with Alta Vista!)
> He also provides a library in Perl and a program to convert a MS
> Word document into an ASCII file.

Why go to all this trouble? I use RTF which is a published
specification. If you need to do batch conversion of Word to RTF then
use something like W4W (which is a commercial program) and if not
simply load the file into Word and save it as RTF. In fact, you can
get source code from Microsoft that allows you to write your own
output formats by translating the internal (to Word) represenation of
RTF into whatever you want. I'm curious as to whether RTF isn't
actually used in some way internally to Word since a plugged-in driver
has access to more RTF code than you would actually see if you save
the file out in RTF format.

-- 
  Dr Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd.  (Netcraft Ltd. contractor)
  Elsevier Science TIS online journal project.
  Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk
  Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 04:31:33 1997
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From: joe@pavilion.net (Josef Karthauser)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: cvsup / firewall
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Hi,
Am I right in thinking that I can't run CVSup through a firewall?
That's a shame. :(
Joe.
-- 
Josef Karthauser        
Technical Manager       Email: joe@pavilion.net
Pavilion Internet plc.  [Tel: +44 1273 607072  Fax: +44 1273 607073]


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 04:37:30 1997
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From: joe@pavilion.net (Josef Karthauser)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: cvsup / firewall [found it]
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Sorry, shoot me for wasting your time.
I've found it: -P -

Joe
-- 
Josef Karthauser        
Technical Manager       Email: joe@pavilion.net
Pavilion Internet plc.  [Tel: +44 1273 607072  Fax: +44 1273 607073]


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 05:09:10 1997
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Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA02971; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:14:09 +0100
From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702171214.NAA02971@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:14:08 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702171210.WAA11151@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 17, 97 10:40:29 pm
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[about fs recovery]

> dd the whole disk off onto a file and mount it on a vnode?  You might

unfortunately is 1.6GB ... I need to find a bigger unit!

> have to reconstruct the label and such, and using fsck's '-b' option

actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
an alternate superblock, but what are others ? I guess they depend
upon the geometry of the disk... is there a "magic" number that I
can look for ?

	Thanks
	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 05:21:38 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702171320.XAA11522@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
In-Reply-To: <199702171214.NAA02971@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Feb 17, 97 01:14:08 pm"
To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:50:14 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Luigi Rizzo stands accused of saying:
> > dd the whole disk off onto a file and mount it on a vnode?  You might
> 
> unfortunately is 1.6GB ... I need to find a bigger unit!

dd bits of it at a time? 8)

> > have to reconstruct the label and such, and using fsck's '-b' option
> 
> actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
> to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
> an alternate superblock, but what are others ? I guess they depend
> upon the geometry of the disk... is there a "magic" number that I
> can look for ?

You mean you didn't write them down when you made your filesystems? 8)

Ok, presumably your disklabel is OK.  Have a look in /sys/ufs/ffs/fs.h
at the superblock layout; it's 8K long, has a fixed checksum, and
contains various predictable fields (eg. the last mountpoint).  This
should let you hunt a copy of it down.

> Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione


-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 05:25:40 1997
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702171227.NAA03025@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: MIME applications for FreeBSD
To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:27:07 +0100 (MET)
Cc: peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <57lo8n1via.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Feb 17, 97 12:12:26 pm
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> peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl (Peter Korsten) writes:

> > Actually, someone (a student?) at the Technical University of Berlin
> > has described the general Microsoft OLE file format. He states that
...
> > He also provides a library in Perl and a program to convert a MS
> > Word document into an ASCII file.
> 
> Why go to all this trouble? I use RTF which is a published
> specification. If you need to do batch conversion of Word to RTF then

you do, but most people just "attach" documents as they are and don't
care about the format being published or not, on the ground that it is
a de-facto standard. I usually dump such files, but that's not always
an option.

	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 05:26:09 1997
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From: Aaron Clark (John Clark) <jclark1@mdc.com>
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I am a graduate student taking a class in network system administration
and we are using freebsd as our os. My prof. has a 32-bit soundblaster
soundcard that is not being properly initialized by freebsd. If the pc is
brought up in dos and then warm booted into freebsd, the card work
fine.

I am interested in modify or rewriting the driver for this card, but don't
know where to start. Any information that anybody could provide would
greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Aaron Clark
Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 05:28:16 1997
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To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Cc: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards), peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: MIME applications for FreeBSD
References: <199702171227.NAA03025@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
From: Paul Richards <p.richards@elsevier.co.uk>
Date: 17 Feb 1997 13:27:52 +0000
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Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> writes:

> > Why go to all this trouble? I use RTF which is a published
> > specification. If you need to do batch conversion of Word to RTF then
> 
> you do, but most people just "attach" documents as they are and don't
> care about the format being published or not, on the ground that it is
> a de-facto standard. I usually dump such files, but that's not always
> an option.

Ahh, OK. Lost track of the original subject i.e. MIME and mail
attachments. I actually use Adobe's W4W, which is a word processor
format conversion tool that converts most formats into each other plus
other common formats like ASCII and HTML.

I've got a nice little hook from gnus which auto-decodes mail
attachments using this and displays them as HTML in Netscape (since I
don't have word processors on my Sun box). Unless it's a wordperfect
file since I do have that on the box.

-- 
  Dr Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd.  (Netcraft Ltd. contractor)
  Elsevier Science TIS online journal project.
  Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk
  Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 05:34:06 1997
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From: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
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Jordan K. Hubbard (jkh) ecrit/writes:
> 
> For those of us who've never seen a Solaris2 machine boot up, could
> you perhaps tell us (though config@freebsd.org would be perhaps a
> better mailing list on which to do it) what it looks like and what
> about it you found so attractive?

	One more knob in sysconfig, eh ?

	Reminds me of a Sun Marketdroid who once said to me "How convenient
	[Solaris on a Netra] is 'cause it speaks out (!) boot messages
	with a female voice (!!)'.  

	Just recompiled vplay static, made a few samples, and voilà -- eat
	your heart out, featuritis weenies :-) (OK, I don't sound like
	Kathleen Turner :-P)
-- 
							-- Phil

-[ Philippe Regnauld   /   Systems Administrator   /    regnauld@prosa.dk ]-
-[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E       PGP Key: finger regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 06:33:12 1997
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From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
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In article <199702141455.JAA12395@news.cioe.com>,
Steve Ames  <steve@news.cioe.com> wrote:
>I thought the gnu people were working on a UNIX varient also? Anyone know
>the status on that?

Hurd is a very interesting operating system. A lot of people see it as a
waste of time, but if they can get it working it's got the potential of
being a very nice environment indeed. If they can't, well, it's pretty much
a dead issue any more now that BSD and Linux are available.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 06:38:52 1997
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From: Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-Id: <199702171443.PAA24698@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
In-Reply-To: <199702171320.XAA11522@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Feb 17, 97 11:50:14 pm"
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:43:04 +0100 (MET)
Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au,
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> Luigi Rizzo stands accused of saying:
> > > dd the whole disk off onto a file and mount it on a vnode?  You might
> > 
> > unfortunately is 1.6GB ... I need to find a bigger unit!
> 
> dd bits of it at a time? 8)
> 
> > > have to reconstruct the label and such, and using fsck's '-b' option
> > 
> > actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
> > to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
> > an alternate superblock, but what are others ? I guess they depend
> > upon the geometry of the disk... is there a "magic" number that I
> > can look for ?
> 
> You mean you didn't write them down when you made your filesystems? 8)
> 
> Ok, presumably your disklabel is OK.  Have a look in /sys/ufs/ffs/fs.h
> at the superblock layout; it's 8K long, has a fixed checksum, and
> contains various predictable fields (eg. the last mountpoint).  This
> should let you hunt a copy of it down.

Some time ago I wrote a (really quick and dirty) little program which scanned
the disk for once existing file systems.

It's too dirty to post in public but if anyone wants it I'll
send it. At least one case beside of my own is known to have been
successful.

Bottomline is that you scan the disk for a FS magic and then with the
obtained data (offset and size) you do a dd skip= count= to a file which
then can be used as /dev/vn0 to be mounted and files can be restored
from there.


> 
> > Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
> 
> 
> -- 
> ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
> ]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
> ]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
> ]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
> ]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[
> 

--
Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 07:04:51 1997
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From: Narvi <narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee>
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
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On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > > Does anyone have a nice banner for xdm with the FreeBSD logo?  This is
> > > another way to present a more "professional" appearance with low
> > > impact to the existing code.
> > 
> > No, but Hosokawa Tatsumi's (sp??) great Daemon Pictures were always
> > good for some Ah!'s and Oh!'s even at customer's sites.  (You
> > remember, the daemon looking around the landscape.)
> 
> Did you ever see the original "Die Hard" movie?
> 
> The computer system they had to break into had a nive graphical login.
> 
> It also claimed to be "BSD 9.2".

Well, we are still at 4.4 :-( Well will the next be released?

	Sander

> 
> 
> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org
> ---
> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
> or previous employers.
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 07:23:39 1997
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:17:07 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it,
        hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702171443.PAA24698@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Feb 17, 97 03:43:04 pm
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In some mail from Christoph Kukulies, sie said:
> 
> > Luigi Rizzo stands accused of saying:
> > > > dd the whole disk off onto a file and mount it on a vnode?  You might
> > > 
> > > unfortunately is 1.6GB ... I need to find a bigger unit!
> > 
> > dd bits of it at a time? 8)
> > 
> > > > have to reconstruct the label and such, and using fsck's '-b' option
> > > 
> > > actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
> > > to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
> > > an alternate superblock, but what are others ? I guess they depend
> > > upon the geometry of the disk... is there a "magic" number that I
> > > can look for ?
> > 
> > You mean you didn't write them down when you made your filesystems? 8)
> > 
> > Ok, presumably your disklabel is OK.  Have a look in /sys/ufs/ffs/fs.h
> > at the superblock layout; it's 8K long, has a fixed checksum, and
> > contains various predictable fields (eg. the last mountpoint).  This
> > should let you hunt a copy of it down.
> 
> Some time ago I wrote a (really quick and dirty) little program which scanned
> the disk for once existing file systems.
> 
> It's too dirty to post in public but if anyone wants it I'll
> send it. At least one case beside of my own is known to have been
> successful.

I've written one of these too (SunOS4) and my comments are the same :-)
(btw, it worked too :-)

> Bottomline is that you scan the disk for a FS magic and then with the
> obtained data (offset and size) you do a dd skip= count= to a file which
> then can be used as /dev/vn0 to be mounted and files can be restored
> from there.

Does dumpfs exist on FreeBSD ?

Darren

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 08:09:41 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:13:52 +0100 (MET)
From: Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
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Is it definite that ccd doesn't work for ISA (be it SCSI or IDE)
due to bounce buffers being required?

Is there any alpha code ?

--
Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 08:11:26 1997
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702171514.QAA03698@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:14:53 +0100 (MET)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970217180449.19139C-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> from "Narvi" at Feb 17, 97 06:05:46 pm
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> > > have to reconstruct the label and such, and using fsck's '-b' option
> > 
> > actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
> > to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
> > an alternate superblock, but what are others ? I guess they depend
> 
> Hmmm.... I may be wrong (luckily I have never had to repair so broken a
> disk) but doesn't newfs output them during the fs creation phase?

yes. 1..3 years before you need them :)

	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 08:12:47 1997
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To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Luke Mewburn: const-ness of select() timeout arg
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:09:51 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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Saw this in netbsd-kern.  Just thought I'd pass it along here.
I've been telling folks in Linux for 4 years that the timeval is const
:-)...

Warner

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Subject: const-ness of select() timeout arg
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:38:41 +1100
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I saw this on USENET, and thought it might be relevant.
It is about POSIX 1.g, and its definition of select() to have
a "const" timeout arg.

I think I read on one of our mailing lists that NetBSD
doesn't depend upon a non-const arg, however our Linux
emulation may.

In any case, something that should be investigated?

===

> From: rstevens@noao.edu (W. Richard Stevens)
> Newsgroups: comp.unix.programmer
> Subject: Re: select call timeout argument
> Date: 13 Feb 1997 13:57:50 GMT
> Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
> Lines: 5

Posix.1g, which is standardizing select() and poll(), add the "const"
qualifier to the "struct timeval *".  So any system that does update
this structure today, will have to change.

===


------- End of Forwarded Message


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 08:19:43 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:06:05 +0200 (EET)
From: Narvi <narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
In-Reply-To: <199702171214.NAA02971@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote:

> [about fs recovery]
> 
> > dd the whole disk off onto a file and mount it on a vnode?  You might
> 
> unfortunately is 1.6GB ... I need to find a bigger unit!
> 
> > have to reconstruct the label and such, and using fsck's '-b' option
> 
> actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
> to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
> an alternate superblock, but what are others ? I guess they depend

Hmmm.... I may be wrong (luckily I have never had to repair so broken a
disk) but doesn't newfs output them during the fs creation phase?

	Sander

> upon the geometry of the disk... is there a "magic" number that I
> can look for ?
> 
> 	Thanks
> 	Luigi
> -----------------------------+--------------------------------------
> Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
> email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
> tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
> fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
> _____________________________|______________________________________
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 08:21:57 1997
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To: hackers@freebsd.org
Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net
Subject: GLOBAL-1.7 for FreeBSD
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 01:22:16 +0900
From: Shigio Yamaguchi <shigio@wafu.netgate.net>
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Hello, this is Yamaguchi.

GLOBAL-1.7 for FreeBSD(2.0.5R, 2.1.0R, 2.1.5R) is available in:

	http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/unix/indexe.html
					       ~
					       Please don't forget this 'e'.
New features:
o one level nested index is available.
o systags script is available. It make it easy to make hypertext of the kernel.
o work much faster than previous version.
o support of assembler source. (It's far from completeness.)

If you cannot get the file, please send me (shigio@wafu.netgate.net) E-mail.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
GLOBAL is a browsing system for C and Yacc source code. It brings benefits
to all hackers.

It supports following environments.

	o shell command line
	o vi editor
	o web browser (You can see the example on the above site.)

I think it is useful to hack a large project containing many subdirectories
like MH, X or BSD kernel.

[Features]

	o Global can find the locations of specified function quickly.
	o Global can locate not only function definitions but also
	  function references
	o Global can treat a source tree containing subdirectories and
	  you can get a relative path of object from anywhere within the tree.
	o Global allow duplicate entries.
	o Global can understand perl's regular expression.
	o Global can also locate functions in library paths if the function
	  not found in your source directory.
	o Global can treat yacc file too.

Please enjoy.
--
Shigio Yamaguchi	E-Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net
			Home Page: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 08:23:57 1997
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From: Lee Cremeans <lee@yakko.my.domain>
Message-Id: <199702171623.LAA01016@yakko.my.domain>
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:23:15 -0500 (EST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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In-Reply-To: <199702171523.HAA21329@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Feb 18, 97 02:17:07 am
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> 
> In some mail from Christoph Kukulies, sie said:
> > 
> > > Luigi Rizzo stands accused of saying:
> > > > > dd the whole disk off onto a file and mount it on a vnode?  You might
> > > > 
> > > > unfortunately is 1.6GB ... I need to find a bigger unit!
> > > 
> > > dd bits of it at a time? 8)
> > > 
> > > > > have to reconstruct the label and such, and using fsck's '-b' option
> > > > 
> > > > actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
> > > > to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
> > > > an alternate superblock, but what are others ? I guess they depend
> > > > upon the geometry of the disk... is there a "magic" number that I
> > > > can look for ?
> > > 
> > > You mean you didn't write them down when you made your filesystems? 8)
> > > 
> > > Ok, presumably your disklabel is OK.  Have a look in /sys/ufs/ffs/fs.h
> > > at the superblock layout; it's 8K long, has a fixed checksum, and
> > > contains various predictable fields (eg. the last mountpoint).  This
> > > should let you hunt a copy of it down.
> > 
> > Some time ago I wrote a (really quick and dirty) little program which scanned
> > the disk for once existing file systems.
> > 
> > It's too dirty to post in public but if anyone wants it I'll
> > send it. At least one case beside of my own is known to have been
> > successful.
> 
> I've written one of these too (SunOS4) and my comments are the same :-)
> (btw, it worked too :-)
> 
> > Bottomline is that you scan the disk for a FS magic and then with the
> > obtained data (offset and size) you do a dd skip= count= to a file which
> > then can be used as /dev/vn0 to be mounted and files can be restored
> > from there.
> 
> Does dumpfs exist on FreeBSD ?
> 
> 

Yup.  I've used it before.

Lee C.
(and yes, my hostname is bogus...I'm using dynamic IP, and don't want to 
pay for name service :( )



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 09:16:06 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:14:11 +0200 (EET)
From: Andrew Stesin <stesin@gu.net>
Reply-To: stesin@gu.net
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
In-Reply-To: <199702171210.WAA11151@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:

> Luigi Rizzo stands accused of saying:
> 
> > one of our IDE disks failed (btw these WDC AC31600H are particularly
> > bad, we have had at least 10 failed units out of about 20; luckily
> > they come with a 3 yr guarantee!)
> 
> Hmm, we had one die on us too, similar errors.

	I'd add that WDC 31200 are no better -- 2 of them died on me
	since Jan. 1st.

	Is this kind of failure rate common to all those cheap IDE Western'
	drives?

Best regards,
Andrew Stesin

nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 09:16:29 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:09:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Coleman <chris@bb.cc.wa.us>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: CTC Linux Mandate
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Just a sour note.

The CTC (Community and Techinical Colleges), an organization with lots of
beurocracy, is trying to decrease their web traffic through the use of
Squid.  So now they have mandated that all community and technical
colleges must have a LINUX box on campus to run this program.  The real
problem is that the people at the CTC don't know a thing about Linux.
They are forcing it becuase the people at the U of Washington Support it,
and they can ask questions to them. Luckily we already run squid on
FreeBSD and had the mandate waived for us.  They are also very worried
about the Ping-o-Death.  Is FreeBSD really immune to the ping-o-death, and
is Linux not?  This might help us turn them from the darkside. :-)


Anyway :-(((

Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us)
Computer Support Technician I  (509)-766-8873
Big Bend Community College  Internet Instructor
FreeBSD Book Project:  http://www.bb.cc.wa.us/~chris/book.html
I may Be inaffective, but atleast I am good at it.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 09:19:43 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:17:45 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Christoph Kukulies wrote:

> 
> Is it definite that ccd doesn't work for ISA (be it SCSI or IDE)
> due to bounce buffers being required?
> 
> Is there any alpha code ?
>
	what version kernel are you using?  I seem to recall a fix for
this going into the 2.2 tree prior to the 3.0 tree being started...
 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 09:20:13 1997
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702171628.RAA03869@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
To: stesin@gu.net
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:28:54 +0100 (MET)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970217211226.311K-100000@trifork.gu.net> from "Andrew Stesin" at Feb 17, 97 09:13:52 pm
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> > Luigi Rizzo stands accused of saying:
> > 
> > > one of our IDE disks failed (btw these WDC AC31600H are particularly
> > > bad, we have had at least 10 failed units out of about 20; luckily
> > > they come with a 3 yr guarantee!)
> > 
> > Hmm, we had one die on us too, similar errors.
> 
> 	I'd add that WDC 31200 are no better -- 2 of them died on me
> 	since Jan. 1st.
> 
> 	Is this kind of failure rate common to all those cheap IDE Western'
> 	drives?

for my experience, yes. Too bad, since they are quite fast -- about 5MB/s
for the 31600 ...

	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 09:24:34 1997
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To: dkelly@hiwaay.net
cc: Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu>, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named) 
In-reply-to: <199702161835.MAA02796@nexgen.ampr.org> 
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:43:11 +1100
From: Giles Lean <giles@nemeton.com.au>
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On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:35:35 -0600  dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote:

> > You don't NEED to have the CD-ROM to get the CVS repository, particularly
> > if you are in a LAN environment and have 56KB or greater connectivity. 
> > Doing the initial download over a slow dialup is likely to be
> > unsatisfying. 
> 
> Ah, I don't have that kind of network connection at home and at work its thru a firewall that doesn't do socks.

Nah -- just takes persistence.  Set it up.  Go to sleep.  Wake up.
Look at nice new bit patterns. :-)

It helps to have a reliable link, but ftp supports 'reget' these days
so even losing the connection (or dropping it to make phone calls on
that line) is bearable.

Giles








From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 09:27:57 1997
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Message-Id: <199702171731.SAA25590@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970217131634.23132G-100000@thelab.hub.org> from The Hermit Hacker at "Feb 17, 97 01:17:45 pm"
To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:31:46 +0100 (MET)
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> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Christoph Kukulies wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Is it definite that ccd doesn't work for ISA (be it SCSI or IDE)
> > due to bounce buffers being required?
> > 
> > Is there any alpha code ?
> >
> 	what version kernel are you using?  I seem to recall a fix for
> this going into the 2.2 tree prior to the 3.0 tree being started...

Oh, I forgot to mention: 3.0-CURRENT (aka 3.0-970207-SNAP)


>  
> 
> 

--
Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 09:36:37 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:05:49 -0330 (NST)
From: John Rochester <jr@cs.mun.ca>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
In-Reply-To: <199702171214.NAA02971@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
> to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
> an alternate superblock, but what are others ?

Try doing a newfs -N on the partition.  That will tell you where it
would put the superblocks if you were creating the filesystem now.
Unless the original filesystem was created with really strange parameters,
they will be in the same position.

john
-----
John Rochester			jr@cs.mun.ca
Dept. of Computer Science
Memorial University of Newfoundland, St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 10:17:28 1997
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Message-Id: <199702171727.SAA04041@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers
To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:27:13 +0100 (MET)
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> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Christoph Kukulies wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Is it definite that ccd doesn't work for ISA (be it SCSI or IDE)
> > due to bounce buffers being required?

I don't see the problem for IDE since it uses PIO mode and the CPU can
access memory anywhere.

	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 10:18:54 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:18:36 -0600 (CST)
From: "Daniel M. Eischen" <deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org>
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[ Re: Western Digital IDE drives ]

>         I'd add that WDC 31200 are no better -- 2 of them died on me
>         since Jan. 1st.
> 
>         Is this kind of failure rate common to all those cheap IDE Western'
>         drives?

We've had 2 of 4 (WDC 31200 and WDC 31600) fail in Gateway systems
less than a year old.  The last one that failed, Gateway sent us a
Seagate as a replacement - I wonder if they have been getting a
high rate fo returns on the WDs (not to plug Seagate IDE drives).

Needless to say, all of our other systems are SCSI based without
_any_ failures yet (knock on wood).

Dan Eischen
deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 10:21:45 1997
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Subject: Re: boot messages (Was: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?)
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:18:22 -0700 (MST)
Cc: eivind@dimaga.com, giles@nemeton.com.au, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au,
        jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org
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> But you're not paying attention : it is NOT POSSIBLE to 
> detect keystrokes on the console while the device probes are running,
> because interrupts are Turned Off.

So *poll* the keyboard controller, and use that for your DELAY().


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 10:26:52 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702171825.LAA09364@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: 32-Bit Soundcard Intialization
To: jclark1@mdc.com (Aaron Clark)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:25:02 -0700 (MST)
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In-Reply-To: <s30808a1.056@mdc.com> from "Aaron Clark" at Feb 17, 97 07:25:10 am
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> I am a graduate student taking a class in network system administration
> and we are using freebsd as our os. My prof. has a 32-bit soundblaster
> soundcard that is not being properly initialized by freebsd. If the pc is
> brought up in dos and then warm booted into freebsd, the card work
> fine.
> 
> I am interested in modify or rewriting the driver for this card, but don't
> know where to start. Any information that anybody could provide would
> greatly appreciated.

Please resend your request to multimedia@freebsd.org ...I believe
this problem wa taken care of some time ago.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 10:36:49 1997
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A little off the subject.
Is there anyone with a little time to help a newbee X11<->Netware user, have
some time to help me get started?


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 11:01:14 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:01:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Mayo <mark@quickweb.com>
To: Chris Coleman <chris@bb.cc.wa.us>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: CTC Linux Mandate
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Chris Coleman wrote:

> Just a sour note.
> 
> The CTC (Community and Techinical Colleges), an organization with lots of
> beurocracy, is trying to decrease their web traffic through the use of
> Squid.  So now they have mandated that all community and technical
> colleges must have a LINUX box on campus to run this program.  The real
> problem is that the people at the CTC don't know a thing about Linux.
> They are forcing it becuase the people at the U of Washington Support it,
> and they can ask questions to them. Luckily we already run squid on
> FreeBSD and had the mandate waived for us.  They are also very worried
> about the Ping-o-Death.  Is FreeBSD really immune to the ping-o-death, and
> is Linux not?  This might help us turn them from the darkside. :-)

As far as I remember, Linux 2.0.0 (the first Linux 2 kernels) was
vulnerable to the 'ping-o-death'. I know FreeBSD 2.2 and beyond are
definately not, and I'm fairly certain FreeBSD 2.1.x (including 2.1.5, and
2..1.6 and even 2.1.0) are not vulnerable. Yeah!

FWIW, a lot of people are running Squid on FreeBSD with lots of success.
If you're trying to get the CTC to not run Linux, just read the GPL to
them... it's certainly one of the main reasons I don't run Linux and do
run FreeBSD (aside from the bazillions of technical motivations ;-)

-Mark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Mayo		  				mark@quickweb.com       
 RingZero Comp.  	  		   http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"I prefer tongue-tied knowledge to ignorant loquacity."
						Cicero (106-43 B.C.)


> 
> 
> Anyway :-(((
> 
> Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us)
> Computer Support Technician I  (509)-766-8873
> Big Bend Community College  Internet Instructor
> FreeBSD Book Project:  http://www.bb.cc.wa.us/~chris/book.html
> I may Be inaffective, but atleast I am good at it.
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 11:03:32 1997
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Chris Csanady wrote:
> 
> Just a thought, but what about using some sort of generic frame buffer driver
> in the kernel.  I dont think it should be the responsibility of the Xserver or
> anything else to twiddle with the cards settings directly.  The kernel would
> just need to know a few card specific things about setting timings, etc.  The
> VT system, and X would both be a consumer of this interface.  They would
> issue ioctls or such requesting certain resolutions(the default vga,
> resolutions
> specified by the user in the kernel config, etc), or possibly to test/set
> timings.  This would also allow the creation of a machine independant console
> driver--something that may not be immediately useful, but would be nice in the
> future.  There would hopefully be no more problems having different X/vt
> resolutions.  I've personally always wanted to have them identical, using a
> nice tiny font, and not having to wait for the monitor to re-sync, or the card
> to reset its timings upon switches.
> 
> I'm not sure, but I think that netbsd has something like this for sun and some
> other architectures, and also a generic console that uses it.  I suppose X must
> also have some of the necessary code as will if they work together.
> 
> For what its worth,
> chris

I'll answer this one first, because it is easiest... Then I'll consider
and reply to Soren and Terry's comments.  I have this Internet system to
fix up first though, so it may be a day before I get back on this. 
Unless I think of something amazing ;-)

Framebuffers typically achieve a maximum of around 50-80,000 xStones on
current PC hardware.  Using the graphics accelerator chip will yield up
to 1,000,000 xStone on commonly available PC hardware.  Most people will
notice a twenty fold performance drop.  Many will even notice 10%. 
While we are aware of a couple of chips that are slower in accelerated
mode than a plain frame buffer (only a couple of percent slower,
admittedly), most graphics accelerators will at least triple the speed
of display.

The NetBSD usage for Sun's comes from standard X Consortium/The Open
Group source code for the X Window System, with drivers delivered by
Sun.  The Sun drivers deliberately do not include their accelerated
drivers for their high performance boards.

The delay in switching is caused by several factors.  Here's a few:

1/	saving and restoring graphics memory.  If you have a 4MB graphics
board, under X, and you want to switch to a different VT (X or text, no
difference), the 4MB should be saved, and a different image switched in
(that'll be handled by the switched-to X Server).  There's a possible
16MB of copying to be done, switching between two X Server VT's, if I
remember this code correctly.

2/	Depending upon the X Server and its' configuration, and the graphics
board, probes to detect clocks on the graphics board may be used to
determine the best clock.  No one, to my knowledge, really caches this
information, once found.  So far it looks as though everyne just reruns
the initialisation code for the grahics board, including probes.

3/	Keeping the clocks the same for text and graphics modes still doesn't
help.  There's still stuff that the X Server has to do, that is not
desirable for text mode.

4/	Font formats for X and VT's have wildly different characteristics. 
One of the most important is that most X fonts are proportional.  To see
why this is a bad idea for the text mode, look at what a botch an xterm
makes, when using a proportional font.  It has no idea how wide the
characters are; under some conditions they get spaced miles apart and
under others they can overlap.  'ls' listings become amazingly warped...
You could certainly choose a default face for both modes, such as Times
Roman or Lucida or something, and used fixed width versions on the
console... But I think that's rather overkill for the amount of work
involved versus the aesthetics.  Either you use text mode because you
have to (don't want to run X, fear the security implications of X,
memory use, etc), or you want a pretty face and so you run X with its'
access to fonts and resolution...

Thanks for the suggestions though.  It would certainly make our lives
simpler if everyone was happy with plain framebuffer performance!

Cheers, JeremyC.
-- 
Jeremy Chatfield,    Phone: +1 303/298-7478    FAX:+1 303/298-1406
  Commercial X Products - for sales/support/information please try:
http://www.xinside.com mailto:info@xinside.com ftp://ftp.xinside.com/
      Xi Graphics, 1801 Broadway, 17th Floor, Denver, CO 80202

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 11:22:29 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:19:49 +0100
From: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser)
To: max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Acer ALTOS 7000 instalation problem.
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On Feb 16, max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin) wrote:
> I've some prob. When It run kernel, and try to probe PCI bus, It hang.

Please give some more information about your
system, and the version of FreeBSD you are
trying to install:

1) Chip set (vendor and type)
2) Version of FreeBSD (2.1.x or 2.2.x)

> I've old Acer, It's
> ALTOS 7000, P5-66, ONLY EISA bus, I installed FreeBSD on It,
> But I installed it on other comp, and than plug that HDD in ALTOS with
> new kernel without PCI bus controller. What can you propose than ?
> How can I turn off PCI probing ?

You can build a kernel without PCI support
(remove the line "controller pci0" and all
the PCI specific drivers), and install it 
under a non-default name, eg. /kernel.altos.

Move over the drive to your ALTOS 7000 and
enter /kernel.altos at the "Boot: " prompt.

The PCI probe really should work, if you 
are using a recent version of FreeBSD. If
it doesn't, then I'll need some debug output
from a boot on your system, and will then 
fix the PCI code ...

Regards, STefan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 11:34:27 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:32:29 -0800 (PST)
From: User BURTON <burton@bsampley.vip.best.com>
To: Andrew Stesin <stesin@gu.net>
cc: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>,
        Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970217211226.311K-100000@trifork.gu.net>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Andrew Stesin wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:
> 
> > Luigi Rizzo stands accused of saying:
> > 
> > > one of our IDE disks failed (btw these WDC AC31600H are particularly
> > > bad, we have had at least 10 failed units out of about 20; luckily
> > > they come with a 3 yr guarantee!)
> > 
> > Hmm, we had one die on us too, similar errors.
> 
> 	I'd add that WDC 31200 are no better -- 2 of them died on me
> 	since Jan. 1st.
> 
> 	Is this kind of failure rate common to all those cheap IDE Western'
> 	drives?
> 
> Best regards,
> Andrew Stesin
> 
> nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE
> 
> 
> 

I can't comment on any other drives, but I have a WDC AC21600H with no 
problems since 8/96 when I installed it.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 12:15:35 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:52:27 -0800 (PST)
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From: Simon Shapiro <Shimon@i-Connect.Net>
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org
Subject: RELENG_2_2 fails to build
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I did:

  cd /usr/src
  rm -rf *
  cvs -t checkout -rRELENG_2_2 .
  nohup make world > world.out 2>&1&

I get:

  ...
===> libregex/doc
awk -f /usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/include.awk
-vsource=/usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/../regex.h  <
/usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/xregex.texi  | expand >regex.texi
makeinfo --no-split -I /usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc regex.texi -o
regex.info
regex.texi:2214: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.
regex.texi:2236: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.
regex.texi:2254: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.
regex.texi:2271: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.
regex.texi:2308: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.
regex.texi:2323: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.
regex.texi:2346: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.
Making info file `regex.info' from `regex.texi'.
*** Error code 2

Stop.

Inspection of lib/gnu/libregex/xregex.texi reveals that these are valid.
I changed

  @itemize

to

  @itemize @bullet

And it compiles, locally, correctly.


Questions:  Where is my mistake?
            how can I ``make world'', continuing from where it left off?

Thanx.

Simon


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 12:15:59 1997
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From: Simon Shapiro <Shimon@i-Connect.Net>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: RE: File system/disk recovery tools ?
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hi Luigi Rizzo;  On 17-Feb-97 you wrote: 

...

>     ** /dev/rwd2a
> 
>     CANNOT READ: BLK 16
>     CONTINUE? [yn] y

...

I am getting EXACTLY this message with -current kernel.  Went back to 2.2
and all is well.  Probably unrelated but worth mentioning.

BTW, I get these on SCSI, ccd over SCSI too.


Simon

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 12:28:24 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:28:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Jaye Mathisen  <mrcpu@cdsnet.net>
To: port@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: How about a ports.conf file
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that can have localized settings for running fetch with -p, and all that
kind of stuff, like make.conf?

I get tired of having to reedit the .mk file after each time I do a make
world on any box that has firewall software running.

Or is there someplace for this already?


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 12:35:26 1997
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To: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au,
        luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ? 
In-reply-to: <199702171523.HAA21329@freefall.freebsd.org> 
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:12:38 +1100
From: Giles Lean <giles@nemeton.com.au>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:17:07 +1100 (EDT)  Darren Reed wrote:

[Someone wrote]
> > Some time ago I wrote a (really quick and dirty) little program which scanned
> > the disk for once existing file systems.

I've sent Luigi one.  It is probably just as quick and dirty as the
others.  (It is already in the list archives, from a previous
incident.)

> Does dumpfs exist on FreeBSD ?

Yes, but it (currently) doesn't take an alternate superblock number to
use.

This is becoming a FAQ.  Two enhancements to tools that might help
would be:

	o making newfs add superblock numbers to /etc/sbtab like
	  HP-UX does (caveats on / being mounted read-write etc)

	o adding an option to dumpfs to tell it to find superblocks

If there is (some sort of) consensus I'll write some code.  (More
promises, yikes.)

Regards,

Giles


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 13:24:36 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:23:14 -0800
From: "M.R.Murphy" <mrm@Mole.ORG>
Message-Id: <199702172123.NAA26953@meerkat.mole.org>
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it,
        msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
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> > > > 
> > > > actually an annoying thing with fsck -b is that I never know what
> > > > to use as an alternate superblock number. 32, says the manpage, is
> > > > an alternate superblock, but what are others ? I guess they depend
> > > > upon the geometry of the disk... is there a "magic" number that I
> > > > can look for ?
> > > 
> > > You mean you didn't write them down when you made your filesystems? 8)

Ah, yes, I write them down each time :-) Never :-)

> > > 
> > > Ok, presumably your disklabel is OK.  Have a look in /sys/ufs/ffs/fs.h
> > > at the superblock layout; it's 8K long, has a fixed checksum, and
> > > contains various predictable fields (eg. the last mountpoint).  This
> > > should let you hunt a copy of it down.

# disklabel -r wd0
or
# disklabel -r sd0
or whatever , depending upon the drive in use,
then
# newfs -N wd0a
or
# newfs -N sd0s1f
or whatever, depending upon the disk and partition.

Notice the "-N" switch :-)

Like this:

  otchig# disklabel -r wd0
  # /dev/rwd0c:
  type: ESDI
  disk: wd0s1
  label: 
  flags:
  bytes/sector: 512
  sectors/track: 63
  tracks/cylinder: 16
  sectors/cylinder: 1008
  cylinders: 2100
  sectors/unit: 2116800
  rpm: 3600
  interleave: 1
  trackskew: 0
  cylinderskew: 0
  headswitch: 0           # milliseconds
  track-to-track seek: 0  # milliseconds
  drivedata: 0 
  
  8 partitions:
  #        size   offset    fstype   [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
    a:    49152        0    4.2BSD        0     0     0   # (Cyl.    0 - 48*)
    b:   262144    49152      swap                        # (Cyl.   48*- 308*)
    c:  2116800        0    unused        0     0         # (Cyl.    0 - 2099)
    e:   131072   311296    4.2BSD        0     0     0   # (Cyl.  308*- 438*)
    f:   196608   442368    4.2BSD        0     0     0   # (Cyl.  438*- 633*)
    g:  1477824   638976    4.2BSD        0     0     0   # (Cyl.  633*- 2099*)
  otchig# newfs -N wd0g
  Warning: 832 sector(s) in last cylinder unallocated
  /dev/rwd0g:     1477824 sectors in 361 cylinders of 1 tracks, 4096 sectors
          721.6MB in 23 cyl groups (16 c/g, 32.00MB/g, 7680 i/g)
  super-block backups (for fsck -b #) at:
   32, 65568, 131104, 196640, 262176, 327712, 393248, 458784, 524320, 589856, 655392, 720928, 786464, 852000, 917536, 983072,
   1048608, 1114144, 1179680, 1245216, 1310752, 1376288, 1441824,
  otchig# 
  
  
Someday I'll remember to write down a few of the alternate superblocks.
Yeah, in my dreams... :-)
  
--
Mike Murphy  mrm@Mole.ORG  +1 619 598 5874
Better is the enemy of Good

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 13:54:33 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:50:46 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: mfs & swap relationship
References: <Mutt.19970215130347.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199702170920.KAA00708@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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In-Reply-To: <199702170920.KAA00708@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Feb 17, 1997 10:20:28 +0100
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As Luigi Rizzo wrote:

>     /dev/null                /var mfs     rw,-T=myformat    0 0 

> in /etc/disktab the entry is
> 
>     myformat:\      dt=ST506:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#256:nc#1:\
>         :pb#12288:ob#0:tb=swap:\
> 	:pc#12288:oc#0:
> 
> (since I only have swap on that...).

So i assume putting this into disktab:

mfs|Generic MFS entry:\
	:dt=ST506:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#256:nc#1:\
	:pc#1:oc#0

together with

/dev/null	/tmp	mfs	rw,-T=mfs,-s=50000	0 0

should work?

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 14:16:46 1997
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To: hackers@freebsd.org, fetchmail-friends@snark.thyrsus.com
Subject: looking for QualComm qpopper testers to try new patch
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:16:27 -0800
From: Paul Traina <pst@shockwave.com>
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I've got a patch to QualComm's QPOP 2.2 that generates Return-Path: lines
in place of the ommitted "From_" line information (which QPOP has incorrectly
ignored for years).  This patch should work well with the newly updated
version of Fetchmail that now respects Return-Path: lines.

I'm looking for victims who UNDERSTAND THE POP PROTOCOL to test this patch.
I know it generates the Return-Path: properly, but I don't know if it is
handling the UIDL generation in a deterministic fashion (I hope it is).

Note: UIDL's generated by this new version of QPOP include the Return-Path:
line in their calcualtion,  whereas the old QPOP did not.  Therefore on-the
fly UIDL generation is different in the new version,  However, since QPOP
stores the first calcualted UIDL, this /shouldn't/ cause your MUA to think
old messages are now new again.

Of course, that's what I need someone to test (since I don't use UIDLs).

If you don't know what a UIDL is, and why it's used, or you're not
sure your MUA is using UIDLs to determine which messages it has already
seen, then please don't bother testing this.

Things I need answered:
	
	(a) Did this cause you to download old messages left on server
	    as if they were new again?  (hopefully not)
	(b) If you leave mail on the server, do you get stuck downloading
	    that same message over and over again every time you start
	    your pop client.

Thanks,

Paul


--- pop_dropcopy.c	Mon Feb 17 13:14:18 1997
+++ pop_dropcopy.c	Mon Feb 17 14:00:12 1997
@@ -160,6 +160,37 @@
     return(ti != 0);
 }
 
+char *
+return_path (const char *unixfrom)
+{
+    static char tmpbuf[BUFSIZ];
+    int fromlen = sizeof("From ") - 1;
+    const char *fp, *hp, *cp, *ep;
+
+    /* if it doesn't start with a From_, it's not */
+    if (strncmp(unixfrom, "From ", fromlen))
+	return NULL;
+
+    fp = unixfrom + fromlen;
+    hp = cp = strchr(fp, ' ');
+    while (hp = strchr(++hp, 'r'))
+	if (!strncmp(hp, "remote from", sizeof("remote from") - 1)) {
+	    hp = strrchr(hp, ' ');
+	    break;
+        }
+
+    if (hp) {
+	ep = strrchr(++hp, '\n');
+	snprintf(tmpbuf, sizeof(tmpbuf), "Return-Path: %.*s!%.*s\n",
+		 ep - hp, hp,
+		 cp - fp, fp);
+    } else
+	snprintf(tmpbuf, sizeof(tmpbuf), "Return-Path: %.*s\n",
+		 cp - fp, fp);
+
+    return tmpbuf;
+}
+
 /* Hashing to a spool directory helps reduce the lookup time for sites
  * with thousands of mail spool files.  Unix uses a linear list to
  * save directory information and the following methods attempt to
@@ -284,6 +315,7 @@
     char                    buffer[MAXLINELEN];		/*  Read buffer */
     MD5_CTX		    mdContext;
     unsigned char	    digest[16];
+    char		   *rpath;
 
 #ifdef DEBUG
     if(p->debug)
@@ -349,6 +381,13 @@
 	    (p->mmdf_separator ? !strcmp(p->mmdf_separator, buffer) :
 	    isfromline(buffer))) {
 
+	    if (!p->mmdf_separator) {
+		rpath = return_path(buffer);
+		pop_log(p, POP_ERR, "From: %s rpath: %s", buffer, rpath);
+		if (rpath)
+		    snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer), rpath);
+	    }
+
 	    if (expecting_trailer) {
 		/* skip over the MMDF trailer */
 		expecting_trailer = 0;
@@ -394,6 +433,7 @@
 	    mp->retr_flag = FALSE;
 	    mp->orig_retr_state = FALSE;
 	    mp->uidl_str = "\n";
+	    mp->return_path = rpath ? strdup(rpath) : NULL;
 #ifdef DEBUG
 	    if(p->debug)
 		pop_log(p,POP_DEBUG, "Msg %d being added to list", mp->number);
@@ -511,6 +551,7 @@
     int			    content_length, content_nchar, cont_len;
     MD5_CTX		    mdContext;
     unsigned char	    digest[16];
+    char		   *rpath;
 
     FILE		    *mail_drop;		    /*  Streams for fids */
 
@@ -583,6 +624,13 @@
 	    (p->mmdf_separator ? !strcmp(p->mmdf_separator, buffer) :
 	    isfromline(buffer))) {
 
+	    if (!p->mmdf_separator) {
+		rpath = return_path(buffer);
+		pop_log(p, POP_ERR, "From: %s rpath: %s", buffer, rpath);
+		if (rpath)
+		    snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer), rpath);
+	    }
+
 	    if (expecting_trailer) {
 		expecting_trailer = 0;
 		continue;
@@ -628,6 +676,7 @@
             mp->retr_flag = FALSE;
             mp->orig_retr_state = FALSE;
 	    mp->uidl_str = "\n";
+	    mp->return_path = rpath ? strdup(rpath) : NULL;
 
 #ifdef DEBUG
             if(p->debug)
--- pop_send.c	Mon Feb 17 13:14:25 1997
+++ pop_send.c	Mon Feb 17 13:15:28 1997
@@ -84,6 +84,9 @@
     /*  Skip the first line (the sendmail "From" or MMDF line) */
     (void)fgets (buffer,MAXMSGLINELEN,p->drop);
 
+    if (mp->return_path)
+	pop_sendline(p, mp->return_path);
+
     /*  Send the header of the message followed by a blank line */
     while (fgets(buffer, MAXMSGLINELEN, p->drop)) {
 	if (!strncasecmp(buffer, "Content-Length:", 15) ||
--- popper.h	Mon Feb 17 13:15:44 1997
+++ popper.h	Mon Feb 17 13:35:48 1997
@@ -260,6 +263,8 @@
 						    Used for RSET cmd. */
     char	*uidl_str;			/*  Cache of the UIDL str for
 						    faster access */
+    char	*return_path;			/*  Cache of the rpath str for
+						    faster access */
 } MsgInfoList;
 
 typedef struct  {                               /*  POP parameter block */

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 14:23:11 1997
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To: Aaron Clark (John Clark) <jclark1@mdc.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, smpatel@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 32-Bit Soundcard Intialization 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:25:10 CST."
             <s30808a1.056@mdc.com> 
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:22:36 -0800
Message-ID: <27663.856218156@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> I am a graduate student taking a class in network system administration
> and we are using freebsd as our os. My prof. has a 32-bit soundblaster
> soundcard that is not being properly initialized by freebsd. If the pc is
> brought up in dos and then warm booted into freebsd, the card work
> fine.
> 
> I am interested in modify or rewriting the driver for this card, but don't
> know where to start. Any information that anybody could provide would
> greatly appreciated.

This appears to be a PnP initialization issue, and it's been noted by
a number of people - one guy can't get the card to initialize unless
he enables "ICU" configuration in his BIOS, another can't do it at all
unless he does exactly what you did on your professor's machine.

I asked both of them to do what I'm going to recommend to you - talk
to Sujal Patel <smpatel@FreeBSD.org> as the PnP meister and figure
out what bit is missing.  It does appear that the PnP code just isn't
waking the AWE32PnP cards up, even when all of the pnpinfo stuff is
properly enabled, and I'm not sure what the solution is.

If you're interested in working with those other two SB32 owners, both
of whom I'm sure would be happy to help you test and tweak things, you
can reach them as chein@cisco.com and overholt@cisco.com (both test
engineers for cisco :-).

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 14:31:57 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:51:13 +0100
From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: CTC Linux Mandate
References: <Pine.NEB.3.94.970217090241.10864A-100000@aries.bb.cc.wa.us> <Pine.BSF.3.94.970217135712.10533A-100000@vinyl.quickweb.com>
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According to Mark Mayo:
> FWIW, a lot of people are running Squid on FreeBSD with lots of success.
> If you're trying to get the CTC to not run Linux, just read the GPL to
> them... it's certainly one of the main reasons I don't run Linux and do
> run FreeBSD (aside from the bazillions of technical motivations ;-)

The only thing to remember when compiling Squid (and many othe programs
too) is to include "-lgnumalloc" as the standard malloc is the old
BSD/Caltech one...
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
  FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 14:58:40 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702172256.PAA09811@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: looking for QualComm qpopper testers to try new patch
To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:56:22 -0700 (MST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, fetchmail-friends@snark.thyrsus.com
In-Reply-To: <199702172216.OAA28519@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Feb 17, 97 02:16:27 pm
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> I've got a patch to QualComm's QPOP 2.2 that generates Return-Path: lines
> in place of the ommitted "From_" line information (which QPOP has incorrectly
> ignored for years).  This patch should work well with the newly updated
> version of Fetchmail that now respects Return-Path: lines.

The "From" line is dumped in when leaving an RFC821 transport.  I
believe you are (incorrectly) assuming that all your mail came from
an RFC821 transport.  RFC822 does NOT require a From line; in point
of fact, it can cause errors on some clients, since the stamp is
not necessarily the only way to seperate messages, and the From line
is not a valid RFC822 header and may prematurely terminate RFC822
message parsing used to extract little things -- like, oh, say,
"boundry=..." from a MIME header line indicating MIME encapsulation
is occurring in the RFC822 message body.

Anyway...


> I'm looking for victims who UNDERSTAND THE POP PROTOCOL to test this patch.
> I know it generates the Return-Path: properly, but I don't know if it is
> handling the UIDL generation in a deterministic fashion (I hope it is).
> 
> Note: UIDL's generated by this new version of QPOP include the Return-Path:
> line in their calcualtion,  whereas the old QPOP did not.  Therefore on-the
> fly UIDL generation is different in the new version,  However, since QPOP
> stores the first calcualted UIDL, this /shouldn't/ cause your MUA to think
> old messages are now new again.
> 
> Of course, that's what I need someone to test (since I don't use UIDLs).

Download an older version of Netscape with the POP3 client (you should
see RFC1939 for details).


I'm kind of hesitant to consider "Return-Path:" in the UID generation;
I would much, much prefer that a timestamp of the form:

	YYYYMMDDHHMMSSII

(where II == instance for a given second) be placed in an "X-UID:" or
a "Message-ID:" header by the transport (not generated on the fly by
the QPopper).  I don't think it's the QPopper's responsibility, I
think it's the message store's responsibility, and sendmail is the
(current) maintainer of your message store.

A "Message-ID:" would be doubly helpful, in that it would allow threading
of the (nominally SMTP-created) list archives... really necessary to
make the archives even marginally useful.


> If you don't know what a UIDL is, and why it's used, or you're not
> sure your MUA is using UIDLs to determine which messages it has already
> seen, then please don't bother testing this.

Heh, sorry, my MUA doesn't use the UIDL Pop3 command to list UID's.

> Things I need answered:
> 	
> 	(a) Did this cause you to download old messages left on server
> 	    as if they were new again?  (hopefully not)
> 	(b) If you leave mail on the server, do you get stuck downloading
> 	    that same message over and over again every time you start
> 	    your pop client.

I have to say that this kind of empirical testing isn't very useful.

Another mechanism, if you *must* generate "on the fly", is to generate
a lexical index on user authentication to a particular maildrop, then
MD5 the full message body.  The timestamp from the SMTP will be
different in any case (think SMTPd generation of "Apparently-To:" from
the "RCPT TO:..." line).


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 15:23:16 1997
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To: Aaron Clark (John Clark) <jclark1@mdc.com>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@freebsd.org, smpatel@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: 32-Bit Soundcard Intialization 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:22:36 PST."
             <27663.856218156@time.cdrom.com> 
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:23:32 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Just post on the multimedia mailing with problems related to sound,
video, etc...

The PnP initialization for your card should be a non-issue whether
you set ICU or not in your BIOS. In fact, the PnP initialization was
written to "manually" initialize PnP devices that is without assistance
from the BIOS.

	Amancio

>From The Desk Of "Jordan K. Hubbard" :
> > I am a graduate student taking a class in network system administration
> > and we are using freebsd as our os. My prof. has a 32-bit soundblaster
> > soundcard that is not being properly initialized by freebsd. If the pc is
> > brought up in dos and then warm booted into freebsd, the card work
> > fine.
> > 
> > I am interested in modify or rewriting the driver for this card, but don't
> > know where to start. Any information that anybody could provide would
> > greatly appreciated.
> 
> This appears to be a PnP initialization issue, and it's been noted by
> a number of people - one guy can't get the card to initialize unless
> he enables "ICU" configuration in his BIOS, another can't do it at all
> unless he does exactly what you did on your professor's machine.
> 
> I asked both of them to do what I'm going to recommend to you - talk
> to Sujal Patel <smpatel@FreeBSD.org> as the PnP meister and figure
> out what bit is missing.  It does appear that the PnP code just isn't
> waking the AWE32PnP cards up, even when all of the pnpinfo stuff is
> properly enabled, and I'm not sure what the solution is.
> 
> If you're interested in working with those other two SB32 owners, both
> of whom I'm sure would be happy to help you test and tweak things, you
> can reach them as chein@cisco.com and overholt@cisco.com (both test
> engineers for cisco :-).
> 
> 					Jordan
> 





From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 15:45:34 1997
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To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org, fetchmail-friends@snark.thyrsus.com
Subject: Re: looking for QualComm qpopper testers to try new patch 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:56:22 MST."
             <199702172256.PAA09811@phaeton.artisoft.com> 
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:44:23 -0800
From: Paul Traina <pst@shockwave.com>
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  From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
  Subject: Re: looking for QualComm qpopper testers to try new patch
  > I've got a patch to QualComm's QPOP 2.2 that generates Return-Path: lines
  > in place of the ommitted "From_" line information (which QPOP has incorrect
>>ly
  > ignored for years).  This patch should work well with the newly updated
  > version of Fetchmail that now respects Return-Path: lines.
  
  The "From" line is dumped in when leaving an RFC821 transport.  I
  believe you are (incorrectly) assuming that all your mail came from
  an RFC821 transport.  RFC822 does NOT require a From line; in point
  of fact, it can cause errors on some clients, since the stamp is
  not necessarily the only way to seperate messages, and the From line
  is not a valid RFC822 header and may prematurely terminate RFC822
  message parsing used to extract little things -- like, oh, say,
  "boundry=..." from a MIME header line indicating MIME encapsulation
  is occurring in the RFC822 message body.

I agree with you 100%.  This converts the From_ line that is in a
unix style /var/mail file into the LEGAL Return-Path: line.  I've
been involved in these fights for a long time (10 years?) and am
just interpreting consensus.  In any case, it's illegal to transmit
a From_ line over a POP connection, IMO,  but there is information
loss (the envelope from) if you don't pass it some way.  Return-Path:
is the legal and well supported alternative.
  
  Anyway...

Yes, since we're violently agreeing with each other. :-)
  
  
  > I'm looking for victims who UNDERSTAND THE POP PROTOCOL to test this patch.
  > I know it generates the Return-Path: properly, but I don't know if it is
  > handling the UIDL generation in a deterministic fashion (I hope it is).
  > 
  > Note: UIDL's generated by this new version of QPOP include the Return-Path:
  > line in their calcualtion,  whereas the old QPOP did not.  Therefore on-the
  > fly UIDL generation is different in the new version,  However, since QPOP
  > stores the first calcualted UIDL, this /shouldn't/ cause your MUA to think
  > old messages are now new again.
  > 
  > Of course, that's what I need someone to test (since I don't use UIDLs).
  
  Download an older version of Netscape with the POP3 client (you should
  see RFC1939 for details).

  I'm kind of hesitant to consider "Return-Path:" in the UID generation;
  I would much, much prefer that a timestamp of the form:
  
  	YYYYMMDDHHMMSSII

No, you don't understand.  QPOP computes the UIDL by calculating a MD5 hash
across the entire message header (not including fields that can change, such
as Status:).  The server previously did not include the envelope from
information in the hash (the From_ line).  I am now including the Return-Path:
line in the hash.  I am just adding more data to the hash.

Additionally, if a message is already in the spool file with an X-UIDL line
in it, QPOP will use that computed value instead of recomputing its own,
which is why I can get away with adding Return-Path: to the hash.

I'd like the UIDL to simply be the message ID, but frankly, they are NOT
unique, and the author of QPOP realized that too.
  
  (where II == instance for a given second) be placed in an "X-UID:" or
  a "Message-ID:" header by the transport (not generated on the fly by
  the QPopper).  I don't think it's the QPopper's responsibility, I
  think it's the message store's responsibility, and sendmail is the
  (current) maintainer of your message store.
  
  A "Message-ID:" would be doubly helpful, in that it would allow threading
  of the (nominally SMTP-created) list archives... really necessary to
  make the archives even marginally useful.
 
That can be extracted from the header already.
  
  > If you don't know what a UIDL is, and why it's used, or you're not
  > sure your MUA is using UIDLs to determine which messages it has already
  > seen, then please don't bother testing this.
  
  Heh, sorry, my MUA doesn't use the UIDL Pop3 command to list UID's.

Yep, I use MH myself.
  
  > Things I need answered:
  > 	
  > 	(a) Did this cause you to download old messages left on server
  > 	    as if they were new again?  (hopefully not)
  > 	(b) If you leave mail on the server, do you get stuck downloading
  > 	    that same message over and over again every time you start
  > 	    your pop client.
  
  I have to say that this kind of empirical testing isn't very useful.

Actually, it is.  It makes sure that the old UIDs are persistant across
POP sessions, and that the new hash change didn't screw anything up, assuming
that your MUA uses UID's as specified by POP3. :-)
  
  Another mechanism, if you *must* generate "on the fly", is to generate
  a lexical index on user authentication to a particular maildrop, then
  MD5 the full message body.  The timestamp from the SMTP will be
  different in any case (think SMTPd generation of "Apparently-To:" from
  the "RCPT TO:..." line).
  
  
  					Regards,
  					Terry Lambert
  					terry@lambert.org
  ---
  Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
  or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 16:06:07 1997
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Subject: Re: looking for QualComm qpopper testers to try new patch
To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:03:55 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org,
        fetchmail-friends@snark.thyrsus.com
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>   I'm kind of hesitant to consider "Return-Path:" in the UID generation;
>   I would much, much prefer that a timestamp of the form:
>   
>   	YYYYMMDDHHMMSSII
> 
> No, you don't understand.  QPOP computes the UIDL by calculating a MD5 hash
> across the entire message header (not including fields that can change, such
> as Status:).  The server previously did not include the envelope from
> information in the hash (the From_ line).  I am now including the Return-Path:
> line in the hash.  I am just adding more data to the hash.

I still don't think a hash is the right way to go... 8-(.


> Additionally, if a message is already in the spool file with an X-UIDL line
> in it, QPOP will use that computed value instead of recomputing its own,
> which is why I can get away with adding Return-Path: to the hash.

X-UID?  ...UIDL: (Unique ID List) is a Pop3 command; the quantity being
described is a UID, not a UIDL.


> I'd like the UIDL to simply be the message ID, but frankly, they are NOT
> unique, and the author of QPOP realized that too.

???

OK... why are the message Id's unique?  Timestamp not included, maybe?

>   I have to say that this kind of empirical testing isn't very useful.
> 
> Actually, it is.  It makes sure that the old UIDs are persistant across
> POP sessions, and that the new hash change didn't screw anything up, assuming
> that your MUA uses UID's as specified by POP3. :-)

Well, for data which already exists.  It won't cause a full branch-path
code verification, which is really the type of test you want.  All
you will find out is that it doesn't screw your testers, not that it
won't screw them or you in the future.  That's a bad thing...


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 16:09:06 1997
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Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: MIME applications for FreeBSD
References: <l03020903af28aac879f3@[194.32.164.2]> <199702131444.BAA19701@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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Michael Smith:
 |Applixware claims to support MSWord format, and appears to be on a
 |runout special for US$189 (US$69 student
 |price). http://www.linuxmall.com

I've heard from the Linux folk that the filters that come with Applixware
are very bad.  However, StarOffice for Linux has decent MSWord 6.0 conversion.

Randall Hopper

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 16:10:27 1997
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To: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@cdsnet.net>
cc: port@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: How about a ports.conf file 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:28:19 PST."
             <Pine.NEB.3.95.970217122607.4895G-100000@mail.cdsnet.net> 
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:10:18 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> that can have localized settings for running fetch with -p, and all that
> kind of stuff, like make.conf?

And what's to stop you from just controlling this from make.conf?  I
do this now for the exact case you're describing (FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES)

					Jordan

> 
> I get tired of having to reedit the .mk file after each time I do a make
> world on any box that has firewall software running.
> 
> Or is there someplace for this already?
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 16:24:04 1997
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Subject: Re: How about a ports.conf file
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Jaye Mathisen wrote:
> 
> that can have localized settings for running fetch with -p, and all that
> kind of stuff, like make.conf?
> 
> I get tired of having to reedit the .mk file after each time I do a make
> world on any box that has firewall software running.

me too 
I haven't looked to see if /etc/make.conf migh tbe useful for this..
anyhow why is -p not the default?

> 
> Or is there someplace for this already?

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 16:41:46 1997
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: Aaron Clark (John Clark) <jclark1@mdc.com>, hackers@freebsd.org,
        multimedia@freebsd.org, smpatel@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: 32-Bit Soundcard Intialization 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:23:32 PST."
             <199702172323.PAA29718@rah.star-gate.com> 
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:40:36 -0800
Message-ID: <28325.856226436@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> The PnP initialization for your card should be a non-issue whether
> you set ICU or not in your BIOS. In fact, the PnP initialization was
> written to "manually" initialize PnP devices that is without assistance
> from the BIOS.

One would think that, but on this particular PP/200 machine, if we turn
ICU off then the card is not found at all (with all of Sujal's support code
in and enabled).  If we turn it on, it works a treat.  Go figure. :-)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 16:50:08 1997
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To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: Aaron Clark (John Clark) <jclark1@mdc.com>, hackers@freebsd.org,
        multimedia@freebsd.org, smpatel@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: 32-Bit Soundcard Intialization 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:40:36 PST."
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:49:45 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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I would compile a kernel without the sound driver and then using
that kernel run pnpinfo. After that send us the output of pnpinfo

	Amancio

>From The Desk Of "Jordan K. Hubbard" :
> > The PnP initialization for your card should be a non-issue whether
> > you set ICU or not in your BIOS. In fact, the PnP initialization was
> > written to "manually" initialize PnP devices that is without assistance
> > from the BIOS.
> 
> One would think that, but on this particular PP/200 machine, if we turn
> ICU off then the card is not found at all (with all of Sujal's support code
> in and enabled).  If we turn it on, it works a treat.  Go figure. :-)
> 
> 					Jordan



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 17:20:48 1997
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From: Thomas David Rivers <ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com>
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Well -

 Here's the latest info on what I've discovered.  It's very strange,
and quite suspect.  I'm sending this to solicit ideas...

 First, I've discovered that if I zero out the data on the disk
where this troublesome inode occurs - everything works just fine.
I did this by newfs'ing the file system; then using clri to zero
out the inode in question.  

 Also, once the inode is zero'd out; you have to corrupt it.  That is,
it doesn't appear that newfs is the culprit in getting the bad data
there to begin with... it could just be "stuff" left on your disk.

 So, I've written a trashing version of clri that fills the inode 
with 0xff instead of 0x00.  Also, I've had it print out block offsets 
so I can add printf's to newfs and ensure it is writing zero to that block.



 Here comes the weird part.



 If I trash the inode; and run newfs - I can check again (either
using my version of clri that prints values, or just using fsck to
check the new file system) and the file system is still hosed.
Newfs believes it wrote 0x0's at that block (I've verified that it
lseek'd to that location and wrote 8192 zero bytes there, and that
the return value of the lseek() and write() calls indicated success.)

 *But* if I trash the inode and run newfs two times in a row;
the inode is correctly zero'd out.  I was stunned by this discovery,
and have verified it 3 times; just to ensure I wasn't mistaken.
It doesn't occur this way _every_ time; just some times.  This is
by no means consistent...

 Also, very often when I run my newfs (built optimized with some
printf's in it) the inode will be properly cleared; whereis the
on on the boot and fixit floppies will not clear it.  Then, I'll
perform the test again (with no reboot, nothing, just running
the commands) and my newfs won't clear the inode... although it
indicates it has.  It is anything but regular (and most frustrating.)

 This is an implication that something more low-level (maybe VM,
maybe device driver, except I've seen in on IDE and SCSI hardware)
is going on here; and that the blocks simply are, sometimes, making it 
to the disk.  This is a *highly suspect* hypothesis - especially since 
every other block in-the-world seems to make it on the disk... (see, I
told you it was weird.)  I've been playing with it for two days
now, and can't figure it out.  Some steps I've taken include adding
fsync() calls to wtfs() in mkfs.c, running sync, etc...

 Here's the steps I go through:

	1) Trash inode # 7680.
	2) newfs the file system
	3) fsck the new file system; fsck reports the bad inode and
	    clears it out
	4) Trash inode # 7680
	5) newfs the file system
	6) newfs the file system again
	7) fsck the new file system - no problems reported.

[Or, replace steps 5/6 with "run the boot/fixit floppy newfs" ]

 With that in mind; I can say that I've only machines that
have experienced this problem are 386s.  I don't have the where-with-all
to put together a 486/586 that I can trash in this manner.

 Also, this doesn't seem to jive with Joerg's similar problem when
newfs's MFS file systems. [Joerg - was that even a 386 machine?]

 At this point; I'm up for suggestions...  

	- Dave Rivers -

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 18:42:01 1997
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From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
To: "..je" <jehrenkrantz@whyy.org>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: X11 Tor(Mentor)Needed
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, ..je wrote:

> A little off the subject.
> Is there anyone with a little time to help a newbee X11<->Netware user, have
> some time to help me get started?

I'm no X guru, but I'll see what I can do.  What's the problem? 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 18:49:22 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:32:08 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702180232.NAA21716@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,
        Shimon@i-Connect.Net
Subject: Re: RELENG_2_2 fails to build
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>  cd /usr/src
>  rm -rf *
>  cvs -t checkout -rRELENG_2_2 .
>  nohup make world > world.out 2>&1&
>
>I get:
>
>  ...
>===> libregex/doc
>awk -f /usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/include.awk
>-vsource=/usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/../regex.h  <
>/usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/xregex.texi  | expand >regex.texi
>makeinfo --no-split -I /usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc regex.texi -o
>regex.info
>regex.texi:2214: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.

>Questions:  Where is my mistake?

Probably expecting `make world' to work :-).  `make world' does an
incomplete bootstrap.  In this case, the problem may be that it attempts
to bootstrap the libraries early, but it needs to to bootstrap texinfo
earlier.  It does bootstrap texinfo early (after libraries).

>            how can I ``make world'', continuing from where it left off?

No way.  Normally it is unnecessary to run `make world' - just use `cd
/usr/src; make depend; make; su; make install; exit', but downgrading
to 2.2 is one case where `make world' is more likely to work.  I would
probably us a couple of passes of `make -k; su; make -k install; exit'.
The first pass would install makeinfo but fail to install info pages
and the second pass would install everything.  makeinfo is about the
only utility that needs to be downgraded.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 19:04:07 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:59:58 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702180259.NAA22662@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, giles@nemeton.com.au
Subject: Re: File system/disk recovery tools ?
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de,
        luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
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>This is becoming a FAQ.  Two enhancements to tools that might help
>would be:
>
>	o making newfs add superblock numbers to /etc/sbtab like
>	  HP-UX does (caveats on / being mounted read-write etc)

Something should put them in /var/backups.  I keep backups of MBRs
and labels there.  File systems made with the defaults don't need
to be recorded unless the defaults change, since they are machine-
generated.  However, Lite2 may change the defaults.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 20:06:47 1997
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To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: plug-and-play support for UART cards?
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:06:40 -0800
From: Paul Traina <pst@shockwave.com>
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I just picked up a TurboExpress Port 920 16C750 based UART card from
pacific commware.  This card has no jumpers, it's meant to be a completely
plug-and-pray devices.

I need to use it in a box that has no BIOS support for plug-and-play devices.
Does anyone have a pointer to the pnp standard so I can poke this thing to
make it appear in the right spots?

Paul

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 21:04:19 1997
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:00:50 -0800
From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Message-Id: <199702180500.VAA00752@lightside.com>
To: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, jdc@xinside.com
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Jeremy Chatfield wrote:

> Chris Csanady wrote:
> > 
> > Just a thought, but what about using some sort of generic frame buffer 
driver
> > in the kernel.  <snip...>
> > I'm not sure, but I think that netbsd has something like this for sun 
and some
> > other architectures, and also a generic console that uses it.  I suppose 
X must
> > also have some of the necessary code as will if they work together.
> > 
> > For what its worth,
> > chris
>
> [reasons why this would be really slow]
>
> Thanks for the suggestions though.  It would certainly make our lives
> simpler if everyone was happy with plain framebuffer performance!

Having seen the Sun console frame buffer on the older SPARCstations (like 
the SPARCstation 2), I am absolutely positive you don't want that on the PC!

The problem with the Sun console, that Jeremy didn't mention, is that the 
frame buffer doesn't actually have a built-in text mode, like VGA cards do.  
The nice thing about VGA is that the CPU only needs to send ASCII characters 
to it, an order of magnitude less information than sending font bitmaps to 
it (and also much simpler).  The worst part about the Sun, though, was that 
there's actually an OpenBoot FORTH (in other words INTERPRETED) program in 
the card's ROM which is used to draw the characters out to the screen, 
leading to painfully slow speeds (slower than even a 9600 baud terminal on 
the SPARC 2's) and tremendous CPU utilization, although it seems that NetBSD 
and Solaris manage to speed up the console somehow, compared to SunOS 
(NetBSD actually has a "RASTERCONSOLE" in the kernel, which probably has 
something to do with it).

The end result is that in many cases, when bringing up one of the older 
Suns, it is FAR faster to get X running, or rlogin from another system, to 
edit the /etc files, than to suffer through vi running on the framebuffer 
console!

-- Jake

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 21:19:40 1997
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From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
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Ollivier Robert writes:

> According to Mark Mayo:
> > FWIW, a lot of people are running Squid on FreeBSD with lots of success.
> > If you're trying to get the CTC to not run Linux, just read the GPL to
> > them... it's certainly one of the main reasons I don't run Linux and do
> > run FreeBSD (aside from the bazillions of technical motivations ;-)
> 
> The only thing to remember when compiling Squid (and many othe programs
> too) is to include "-lgnumalloc" as the standard malloc is the old
> BSD/Caltech one...

Not if you're using FreeBSD 2.2 or higher.  It has PHK's improved malloc 
built into libc, which is just as good as gnumalloc.  In fact, in these 
versions of FreeBSD, gnumalloc is actually a stub library for backwards 
compatibility, and linking with it won't do anything useful.

-- Jake

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 22:35:21 1997
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To: Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers 
Reply-To: Jason Thorpe <thorpej@nas.nasa.gov>
From: Jason Thorpe <thorpej@nas.nasa.gov>
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[ note, this reply is directed more at whomever integrated the ccd
  into freebsd, and/or has hacked on it in freebsd since then... ]

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:13:52 +0100 (MET) 
 Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

 > Is it definite that ccd doesn't work for ISA (be it SCSI or IDE)
 > due to bounce buffers being required?

So, maybe I'm missing how things work in the FreeBSD world, but what
on earth does bounce buffers have to do with the ccd?  The ccd is
a layered driver, which knows nothing about the underlying component
(or, at least, that's how it's _supposed_ to work, and is how it works
in NetBSD).

Really, any dependency on bounce buffers out side of specific scsi
controller drivers is just plain broken.

Jason R. Thorpe                                       thorpej@nas.nasa.gov
NASA Ames Research Center                               Home: 408.866.1912
NAS: M/S 258-6                                          Work: 415.604.0935
Moffett Field, CA 94035                                Pager: 415.428.6939

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 22:47:26 1997
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Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers 
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:29:15 -0800
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[ note, this reply is directed more at whomever integrated the ccd
  into freebsd, and/or has hacked on it in freebsd since then... ]

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:13:52 +0100 (MET) 
 Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

 > Is it definite that ccd doesn't work for ISA (be it SCSI or IDE)
 > due to bounce buffers being required?

So, maybe I'm missing how things work in the FreeBSD world, but what
on earth does bounce buffers have to do with the ccd?  The ccd is
a layered driver, which knows nothing about the underlying component
(or, at least, that's how it's _supposed_ to work, and is how it works
in NetBSD).

Really, any dependency on bounce buffers out side of specific scsi
controller drivers is just plain broken.

Jason R. Thorpe                                       thorpej@nas.nasa.gov
NASA Ames Research Center                               Home: 408.866.1912
NAS: M/S 258-6                                          Work: 415.604.0935
Moffett Field, CA 94035                                Pager: 415.428.6939

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 22:51:30 1997
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Message-Id: <199702180651.RAA01974@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: CTC Linux Mandate
In-Reply-To: <199702180520.VAA00774@lightside.com> from Jake Hamby at "Feb 17, 97 09:20:20 pm"
To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:21:04 +1030 (CST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
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Jake Hamby stands accused of saying:
> > 
> > The only thing to remember when compiling Squid (and many othe programs
> > too) is to include "-lgnumalloc" as the standard malloc is the old
> > BSD/Caltech one...
> 
> Not if you're using FreeBSD 2.2 or higher.  It has PHK's improved malloc 
> built into libc, which is just as good as gnumalloc.  In fact, in these 
> versions of FreeBSD, gnumalloc is actually a stub library for backwards 
> compatibility, and linking with it won't do anything useful.

"Just as good as"?  If Poul wasn't up burping his baby he'd be rolling in
his grave!  pkhmalloc eats the GNU malloc for breakfast, because it 
gets along with the VM system.  Despite the comment in the
manpage, even :

HISTORY
     The present implementation of malloc started out as a filesystem on a
     drum attached to a 20bit binary challenged computer built with discrete
     germanium transistors, and it has since graduated to handle primary stor-
     age rather than secondary.


> -- Jake

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 22:55:20 1997
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To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch)
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Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:42:42 +0100.
             <Mutt.19970217094242.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> 
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>As Chris Csanady wrote:
>
>> Just a thought, but what about using some sort of generic frame
>> buffer driver in the kernel.  I dont think it should be the
>> responsibility of the Xserver or anything else to twiddle with the
>> cards settings directly.  The kernel would just need to know a few
>> card specific things about setting timings, etc.
>
>Basically: Yes!
>
>However: have you ever counted the number of hardware-dependant code
>lines in XFree86?  No?  Then you don't know what you're talking
>about. :~)  Last time i counted, we spoke about some 200+ Klines of C
>code. :-O

Others have mentioned that a frame buffer would be really slow, but that
really wasn't my intention, I should have explained a little better.  It
seems I misused the term frame buffer.. what I was trying to get at was
the seperation of the code that sets the state of the graphics card, and
the code that uses it, with drawing, acceleration or whatever else.

There would be a generic graphics driver of sorts, that is primarily
concerned with setting the state of the graphics board.  I dont know the
specifics, but what I see is a kernel module for each of the cards that
implements a certain set of functions that set the state.  These would
be well defined by the generic driver interface, and called when
necessary to switch resolutions, etc.

If such a standard interface were to be implemented in the X server, I
think it would make it easy to creat kernel modules for this.  I could
be wrong, but it seems to me it would just be moving some code around,
and it would benefit everyone.  I think that this would be much easier
than designing a generic acceleration and stuff the whole driver in the
kernel, but would include most of the important benefits.

I suppose this belongs on an XFree newsgroup or something..

Laters,
Chris


>Have a look at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pcvt/set2061/, just to get the
>feeling for _one_ (now already fairly aged) piece of hardware that
>needs to be supported, the ICD2061A clock synthesizer.
>
>-- 
>cheers, J"org
>
>joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
>Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Feb 17 23:51:41 1997
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From: Tom Samplonius <tom@sdf.com>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Time servers?
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  What accurate ntp time servers are available on the internet?

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 00:18:50 1997
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From: Tom Samplonius <tom@sdf.com>
To: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: CTC Linux Mandate
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Ollivier Robert wrote:

> According to Mark Mayo:
> > FWIW, a lot of people are running Squid on FreeBSD with lots of success.
> > If you're trying to get the CTC to not run Linux, just read the GPL to
> > them... it's certainly one of the main reasons I don't run Linux and do
> > run FreeBSD (aside from the bazillions of technical motivations ;-)
> 
> The only thing to remember when compiling Squid (and many othe programs
> too) is to include "-lgnumalloc" as the standard malloc is the old
> BSD/Caltech one...

  Huh?  Doesn't 2.2 and higher use phkmalloc which according to reports is
*better* than gnumalloc?  Plus, isn't gnumalloc being depreciated out of
FreeBSD?

> -- 
> Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
>   FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997
> 
> 

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 00:20:38 1997
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Message-Id: <199702180725.IAA24654@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: RELENG_2_2 fails to build
To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:25:22 +0100 (MET)
Cc: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,
        Shimon@i-Connect.Net
In-Reply-To: <199702180232.NAA21716@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from Bruce Evans at "Feb 18, 97 01:32:08 pm"
Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen
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Bruce Evans wrote:
> >  cd /usr/src
> >  rm -rf *
> >  cvs -t checkout -rRELENG_2_2 .
> >  nohup make world > world.out 2>&1&
> >
> >I get:
> >
> >  ...
> >===> libregex/doc
> >awk -f /usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/include.awk
> >-vsource=/usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/../regex.h  <
> >/usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc/xregex.texi  | expand >regex.texi
> >makeinfo --no-split -I /usr/src/gnu/lib/libregex/doc regex.texi -o
> >regex.info
> >regex.texi:2214: itemize requires an argument: the formatter for @item.
> 
> >Questions:  Where is my mistake?

Do you have /usr/local/bin/makeinfo in your $PATH, maybe from teTeX?
If so, add a line `MAKEINFO=/usr/bin/makeinfo' to /etc/make.conf and
try again. The bsd.*.mk files should probably define absolute pathnames
for all binaries they use.

tg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 00:46:44 1997
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From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Tom Samplonius wrote:

> 
>   What accurate ntp time servers are available on the internet?

Have a look at http://www.hilink.com.au/times/

A lot of the servers there are marked as NTP synched.  What you really 
want is a server near you which is ntp synched.  Why don't you use
mail-relay.ubc.ca.

Danny

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 00:50:40 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:38:30 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com (Thomas David Rivers)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers)
Subject: Re: dup alloc panic
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As Thomas David Rivers wrote:

>  With that in mind; I can say that I've only machines that
> have experienced this problem are 386s.  I don't have the where-with-all
> to put together a 486/586 that I can trash in this manner.
> 
>  Also, this doesn't seem to jive with Joerg's similar problem when
> newfs's MFS file systems. [Joerg - was that even a 386 machine?]

Yes, my scratch machine is a 386 one.  I can't remember i have
observed it somewhere else.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 00:57:42 1997
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Subject: Re: Time servers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.94.970217153238.189A-100000@misery.sdf.com> from Tom Samplonius at "Feb 17, 97 03:33:27 pm"
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>
>  What accurate ntp time servers are available on the internet?
>
>Tom
>
>

There are a number of time servers on the net. Your ISP may provide an NTP
feed. This URL is a good place to start:

    http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/

Josef

-- 
Josef Grosch       | Laugh while you can, monkey boy ! |    FreeBSD 2.1.6
jgrosch@sirius.com |          - John Warfin -          | UNIX for the masses

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 00:58:25 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:51:17 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702180851.TAA02058@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
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>So, maybe I'm missing how things work in the FreeBSD world, but what
>on earth does bounce buffers have to do with the ccd?  The ccd is
>a layered driver, which knows nothing about the underlying component
>(or, at least, that's how it's _supposed_ to work, and is how it works
>in NetBSD).

It didn't initialize cbp->cb_buf.b_bufsize, and the bounce buffer code
depends on this being initialized since b_bcount might be modified by
drivers.

Buffers have a lot of hair, especially in FreeBSD, and it's not clear
that anywhere outside of vfs_bio.c can know how how to initialize them
Perhaps cb_buf should be copied from *bp and then modified.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 01:01:30 1997
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From: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702180900.UAA22646@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <199702180638.AAA05778@nyx.pr.mcs.net> from Chris Csanady at "Feb 18, 97 00:38:42 am"
To: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net (Chris Csanady)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:00:02 +1100 (EST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
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>>> Just a thought, but what about using some sort of generic frame
>>> buffer driver in the kernel.  I dont think it should be the
>>> responsibility of the Xserver or anything else to twiddle with the
>>> cards settings directly.  The kernel would just need to know a few
>>> card specific things about setting timings, etc.
>>
>>Basically: Yes!
>>
>>However: have you ever counted the number of hardware-dependant code
>>lines in XFree86?  No?  Then you don't know what you're talking
>>about. :~)  Last time i counted, we spoke about some 200+ Klines of C
>>code. :-O
>
>Others have mentioned that a frame buffer would be really slow, but that
>really wasn't my intention, I should have explained a little better.  It
>seems I misused the term frame buffer.. what I was trying to get at was
>the seperation of the code that sets the state of the graphics card, and
>the code that uses it, with drawing, acceleration or whatever else.

A large proportion of the hw-specific code is required precisely for
initialising the state of the graphics card.  From our (XFree86's)
experience, this is the hard part.  The rest is relatively easy.

I'd strongly suggest that anyone interested in following this up get
themselves very familiar with the details before speculating about it.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be done (it'd be great to get some of this
stuff out of the X servers).  I'm saying that it isn't nearly as easy
as you're making it sound (the comparison with Sun hardware is not at
all appropriate -- most of that hardware doesn't ever run in more than
one video mode, and that is initialised by the firmware).

Being able to make use of the video BIOS to do this sort of thing may
help, but I've seen comments suggeting that even this is no magic
solution.

>>Have a look at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pcvt/set2061/, just to get the
>>feeling for _one_ (now already fairly aged) piece of hardware that
>>needs to be supported, the ICD2061A clock synthesizer.

And the exact details of programming a chip like this depends on the
card it is on.  The version in pcvt/set2061 only deals with S3 cards.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 01:28:07 1997
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To: Jason Thorpe <thorpej@nas.nasa.gov>
cc: Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>,
        freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:29:15 PST."
             <199702180629.WAA18272@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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>[ note, this reply is directed more at whomever integrated the ccd
>  into freebsd, and/or has hacked on it in freebsd since then... ]
>
>On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:13:52 +0100 (MET) 
> Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>
> > Is it definite that ccd doesn't work for ISA (be it SCSI or IDE)
> > due to bounce buffers being required?
>
>So, maybe I'm missing how things work in the FreeBSD world, but what
>on earth does bounce buffers have to do with the ccd?  The ccd is
>a layered driver, which knows nothing about the underlying component
>(or, at least, that's how it's _supposed_ to work, and is how it works
>in NetBSD).
>
>Really, any dependency on bounce buffers out side of specific scsi
>controller drivers is just plain broken.

   There is no dependency that I know of in FreeBSD. Bounce buffers are
handled in the generic SCSI layer (via a machine-independant callout), and
shouldn't be affected by ccd. I don't know where this rumor got started...

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 01:48:15 1997
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To: jgrosch@sirius.com
cc: tom@sdf.com (Tom Samplonius), hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Time servers? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:57:01 PST."
             <199702180857.AAA28400@superior.truenorth.org> 
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 01:46:57 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> >
> >  What accurate ntp time servers are available on the internet?
> >
> >Tom
> >
> >
> 
> There are a number of time servers on the net. Your ISP may provide an NTP
> feed. This URL is a good place to start:

The sysinstall configuration menu also has a list of them.. :-)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 01:51:28 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:52:09 +0100
From: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Popd as security weakness (Was: Re: looking for QualComm qpopper testers to try new patch)
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Paul Traina (pst) ecrit/writes:

> I've got a patch to QualComm's QPOP 2.2 that generates Return-Path: lines

	[patch]

	Say, I haven't looked at QPOP for some time, but if I remember
	correctly, it doesn't implement an optional delay between PASS
	attempts, right ?

	The reason I'm saying this is that for people who have POP accounts
	with valid login shell passwords, POPd becomes a nice crypt engine.

	Like login, but without having to wait 5 seconds each time.
-- 
							-- Phil

-[ Philippe Regnauld   /   Systems Administrator   /    regnauld@prosa.dk ]-
-[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E       PGP Key: finger regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 01:53:01 1997
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Subject: Re: Time servers?
References: <Pine.NEB.3.94.970217153238.189A-100000@misery.sdf.com>
From: Ashley Baumann <ashleyb@sco.com>
Date: 18 Feb 1997 09:50:50 +0000
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There are list of stratum 1 and 2 public time servers available
at http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/servers.html

Ashleyb

Tom Samplonius <tom@sdf.com> writes:
>   What accurate ntp time servers are available on the internet?
> 
> Tom
> 

-- 
======================================================
Ashley Baumann                         ashleyb@sco.com
interNet Engineering Group

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 02:11:43 1997
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From: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
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Philippe Regnauld (regnauld) ecrit/writes:
> 
> 	Say, I haven't looked at QPOP for some time, but if I remember
> 	correctly, it doesn't implement an optional delay between PASS
> 	attempts, right ?
	
	Stop. Rewind. Stop. Play.

	Sorry, hadn't seen #define SLEEP_SECONDS 10 in pop_pass.c :-P

-- 
							-- Phil

-[ Philippe Regnauld   /   Systems Administrator   /    regnauld@prosa.dk ]-
-[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E       PGP Key: finger regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 02:21:08 1997
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From: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702181020.VAA23461@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
Subject: Re: dup alloc panic
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970218093830.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Feb 18, 97 09:38:30 am"
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:20:51 +1100 (EST)
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>As Thomas David Rivers wrote:
>
>>  With that in mind; I can say that I've only machines that
>> have experienced this problem are 386s.  I don't have the where-with-all
>> to put together a 486/586 that I can trash in this manner.
>> 
>>  Also, this doesn't seem to jive with Joerg's similar problem when
>> newfs's MFS file systems. [Joerg - was that even a 386 machine?]
>
>Yes, my scratch machine is a 386 one.  I can't remember i have
>observed it somewhere else.

I'm coming in on this thread a bit late, I hope the subject line is
still valid.  I've had a dup alloc panic recently, with a RELENG_2_2
kernel dating from a couple of weeks ago (Pentium, SCSI disk on an NCR
controller).  It happened while re-populating a disk after doing a newfs.
I ended up doing the newfs again (fsck had too much trouble), and
repopulating (but in a different order).  It's been OK since.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 02:22:39 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 06:21:58 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
cc: Jason Thorpe <thorpej@nas.nasa.gov>,
        Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>,
        freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers 
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On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, David Greenman wrote:

> >[ note, this reply is directed more at whomever integrated the ccd
> >  into freebsd, and/or has hacked on it in freebsd since then... ]
> >
> >On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:13:52 +0100 (MET) 
> > Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> >
> > > Is it definite that ccd doesn't work for ISA (be it SCSI or IDE)
> > > due to bounce buffers being required?
> >
> >So, maybe I'm missing how things work in the FreeBSD world, but what
> >on earth does bounce buffers have to do with the ccd?  The ccd is
> >a layered driver, which knows nothing about the underlying component
> >(or, at least, that's how it's _supposed_ to work, and is how it works
> >in NetBSD).
> >
> >Really, any dependency on bounce buffers out side of specific scsi
> >controller drivers is just plain broken.
> 
>    There is no dependency that I know of in FreeBSD. Bounce buffers are
> handled in the generic SCSI layer (via a machine-independant callout), and
> shouldn't be affected by ccd. I don't know where this rumor got started...
>

	From personal experience, when I had tried to create a CCD
device that spanned a PCI/NCR device and an ISA/Adaptec device, the machine
would consitently "blow up" at boot with an error dealing with Bounce Buffers
(this was months ago, so I don't recall the exact error message).  

	Putting two PCI/NCR devices in (which she has now) runs beautifully.
 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 02:23:00 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:21:11 +0300 (MSK)
From: "Maxim A. Bolotin" <max@rnd.runnet.ru>
To: Stefan Esser <se@freebsd.org>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Acer ALTOS 7000 instalation problem.
In-Reply-To: <19970217201949.SG24812@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Stefan Esser wrote:

> On Feb 16, max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin) wrote:
> > I've some prob. When It run kernel, and try to probe PCI bus, It hang.
> Please give some more information about your
> system, and the version of FreeBSD you are
> trying to install:
> 
> 1) Chip set (vendor and type)
Acer ALTOS 7000, Acer BIOS V1.2R1.0, 1993,
7 EISA slots, AIC 7770, twin channel.
> 2) Version of FreeBSD (2.1.x or 2.2.x)
It was with 2.1.0, 2.1.5, 2.1.6, and NOW with 2.2-GAMMA:

FreeBSD 2.2-970205-GAMMA #0: Mon Feb 10 19:03:30 MSK 1997
It's my kernel, without contorller pci0.
Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock ... i586 clock: 66668220 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193172 Hz
CPU: Pentium (66.67-MHz 586-class CPU)
  Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0x515  Stepping=5
  Features=0x1bf<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,MCE,CX8>
real memory  = 33554432 (32768K bytes)
avail memory = 30502912 (29788K bytes)
eisa0: <ACR1a01 (System Board)>
Probing for devices on the EISA bus
ahc0: <Adaptec aic7770 SCSI host adapter> at 0x9c00-0x9cff irq 11
ahc0: on eisa0 slot 9
ahc0: aic7770 <= Rev C, Twin Channel, A SCSI Id=7, B SCSI Id=7, 4 SCBs
ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle
(ahc0:0:0): "MICROP 4110-09NB_Nov18F TN0F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2
sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1002MB (2053880 512 byte sectors)
(ahc0:1:0): "MICROP 4110-09NB_Nov18F TN0F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2
sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 1002MB (2053880 512 byte sectors)
(ahc0:4:0): "MICROP 4110-09NB_Nov18F TN0F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2
sd2(ahc0:4:0): Direct-Access 1002MB (2053880 512 byte sectors)
ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle
(ahc0:5:0): "MATSHITA CD-ROM CR-503 1.0f" type 5 removable SCSI 2
cd0(ahc0:5:0): CD-ROM can't get the size
Probing for devices on the ISA bus:
sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard
sc0: VGA color <6 virtual consoles, flags=0x0>
ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 5 on isa
ed0: address 00:c0:df:81:30:50, type NE2000 (16 bit) 
ed1 at 0x340-0x35f irq 10 on isa
ed1: address 00:40:05:1a:fd:45, type NE2000 (16 bit) 
ed2 at 0x320-0x33f irq 9 on isa
ed2: address 00:40:05:17:e5:9d, type NE2000 (16 bit) 
sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa
sio0: type 16450
sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa
sio1: type 16450
lpt0 at 0x3bc-0x3c3 irq 7 on isa
lpt0: Interrupt-driven port
lp0: TCP/IP capable interface
psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard
psm0: device ID 0
fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa
fdc0: NEC 765
fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in
npx0 on motherboard
npx0: INT 16 interface
IP packet filtering initialized, divert disabled, logging disabled

> You can build a kernel without PCI support
> (remove the line "controller pci0" and all
> the PCI specific drivers), and install it 
> under a non-default name, eg. /kernel.altos.
I know about it, I have worked my computer, but I can't do normal
upgrade procedure 'cause I can't boot from standart boot floppy.
Can I turn off controller pci0 in visual config or something ?
I think it's a common problem, or maybe not. Maybe only Acer hang out
after pci probing :-(.
	Regards,
		Max.	
-
Rostov State University   Computer Center
Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476
Russia, RUNNet               max@run.net.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 02:31:33 1997
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To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
cc: Jason Thorpe <thorpej@nas.nasa.gov>,
        Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>,
        freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Feb 1997 06:21:58 -0400."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.970218062021.23132e-100000@thelab.hub.org> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:32:26 -0800
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>>    There is no dependency that I know of in FreeBSD. Bounce buffers are
>> handled in the generic SCSI layer (via a machine-independant callout), and
>> shouldn't be affected by ccd. I don't know where this rumor got started...
>>
>
>	From personal experience, when I had tried to create a CCD
>device that spanned a PCI/NCR device and an ISA/Adaptec device, the machine
>would consitently "blow up" at boot with an error dealing with Bounce Buffers
>(this was months ago, so I don't recall the exact error message).  
>
>	Putting two PCI/NCR devices in (which she has now) runs beautifully.

   Ahh...see Bruce's message about b_bcount not being initialized properly.
BTW, has anyone fixed this yet?

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 03:02:28 1997
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From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis)
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net (Chris Csanady)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:03:54 +0100 (MET)
Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702180638.AAA05778@nyx.pr.mcs.net> from "Chris Csanady" at Feb 18, 97 00:38:42 am
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Chris Csanady wrote:

> There would be a generic graphics driver of sorts, that is primarily
> concerned with setting the state of the graphics board.  I dont know the
> specifics, but what I see is a kernel module for each of the cards that
> implements a certain set of functions that set the state.  These would
> be well defined by the generic driver interface, and called when
> necessary to switch resolutions, etc.

In the PC world, there is already a generic graphis driver for setting the
state of the board available, its called BIOS. The only problem the free
BSD's have, is to access it.

If we could access the BIOS, it would be responsible for switching back and
forth into the card-supported video modes, and neither the console driver
nor the X server would have to care anymore about it.

hellmuth
-- 
hellmuth michaelis                hm@kts.org                    hamburg, europe

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 03:47:04 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:45:39 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702181145.WAA07012@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: dg@root.com, scrappy@hub.org
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de,
        thorpej@nas.nasa.gov
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>   Ahh...see Bruce's message about b_bcount not being initialized properly.
>BTW, has anyone fixed this yet?

b_bufsize.  John fixed it 5 weeks ago in -current and the change was
merged into 2.2.  It is still broken in -stable :-(.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 03:52:48 1997
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702181103.MAA06269@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: 21140-AC (if_de.c) news
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:03:01 +0100 (MET)
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A few more data points about the 21140A/21140-AC (if_de.c) driver

I worked on 2.1.6 using both the stock driver ("old") and the latest
netbsd driver ("new"), using a 100Mb/s net and diskless clients.

The old driver works fine with 21140-AB board, but does not recognize
the 21140-AC correctly.

The new driver works better with the 21104-AC but has some bugs:

BUG #1:
    The new driver fails to initialize the media properly on the
    21140-AB (aka 21140). In the new driver, media initialization is
    delayed and occurs (I think) at the first transmission attempt. The
    fix is unknown (to me). As a consequence I could not use the new
    driver with the 21140-AB

BUG #2:
    The new driver fails to deal with too many back-to-back packets.
    The first symptom for me was that NFS-mounting with blocksize of 8K
    would fail, and it only seems to work with blocksize of 1K up to
    about 1500. Note, in the latter case the packet is fragmented in
    two pieces.

    I tried to ping the diskless client with blocksize of up to 8100
    bytes, while running tcpdump on the sender, and it seems to respond
    correctly. HOWEVER, as soon as I ran tcpdump on the client, pinging
    with more than some 4100 bytes caused failure to reply: tcpdump on
    the client shows the packets coming in, but no reply going out.

    I believe this is a symptom of lack of buffers somewhere. Kind of
    strange, since the relevant parameters (TULIP_RXDESCS etc.) appear
    to be unchanged.

	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 04:50:37 1997
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From: Thomas David Rivers <ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com>
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> 
> >As Thomas David Rivers wrote:
> >
> >>  With that in mind; I can say that I've only machines that
> >> have experienced this problem are 386s.  I don't have the where-with-all
> >> to put together a 486/586 that I can trash in this manner.
> >> 
> >>  Also, this doesn't seem to jive with Joerg's similar problem when
> >> newfs's MFS file systems. [Joerg - was that even a 386 machine?]
> >
> >Yes, my scratch machine is a 386 one.  I can't remember i have
> >observed it somewhere else.
> 
> I'm coming in on this thread a bit late, I hope the subject line is
> still valid.  I've had a dup alloc panic recently, with a RELENG_2_2
> kernel dating from a couple of weeks ago (Pentium, SCSI disk on an NCR
> controller).  It happened while re-populating a disk after doing a newfs.
> I ended up doing the newfs again (fsck had too much trouble), and
> repopulating (but in a different order).  It's been OK since.
> 
> David
> 

 Yes - that fits with the problem I'm trying to debug...

 However, it is an interesting data point; since this was on a Pentium.

 This problem has been around for quite some time, [I know I'm probably
 beginning to sound like a real whiner :-) ]

 I, just this second; experienced it again on my news server... it's most
aggravating.

	- Dave Rivers -

 

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 05:08:44 1997
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Thanks to all who have offerd help!
Several find minds are giving a hand!
Thanks to all.  
Regards ..je


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 05:16:26 1997
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To: Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>
From: "..je" <jehrenkrantz@whyy.org>
Subject: Re: I guess we need to read all code, not just SUID stuff !
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I'm just getting my feet wet with pgp but perhaps it could be used to provide
a secure way of distributing the srcs? Presumably after a check of the current 
src's is completed!

Regards ..je


At 05:17 AM 2/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>I'm hoping to be told I'm wrong below,
>>I'll be disappointed (& others more so) if I'm right :-) .....
>>
>>Ref. the the freefall break in, & the planting of trojans, in bin path,
>>& possible planting of trojans in src/
>>& intention to read code for manipulation ...
>>
>>We presumably don't need to just read the SUID stuff,
>>we need to read all 120M of src/  :-(
>
>


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 05:42:44 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:42:43 -0600
To: "..je" <jehrenkrantz@whyy.org>
From: Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>
Subject: Re: I guess we need to read all code, not just SUID stuff !
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>I'm just getting my feet wet with pgp but perhaps it could be used to provide
>a secure way of distributing the srcs? Presumably after a check of the
>current
>src's is completed!

Our problem here is NOT with a security breach in the DISTRIBUTION. The
problem is that the SOURCE has been compromised. It does no good to distribute
accurate copies of corrupt files.

BTW, pgp or some other digital signature could enhance the security of the
sources which are distributed by mail.
We have previously discussed such an addition to CTM.
However, to date, there has not been a problem.
Further, it can be argued that such a feature might cause an even greater
false sense of security. A breach at the source is still a possibility.
No amount of safeguarding can replace diligence on the part of the receiver
of the information.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 05:45:08 1997
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From: Søren Schmidt <sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
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Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <m0vwmOw-00001YC@ernie.kts.org> from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Feb 18, 97 11:03:54 am"
To: hm@kts.org
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:45:19 +0100 (MET)
Cc: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de,
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In reply to Hellmuth Michaelis who wrote:
> Chris Csanady wrote:
> 
> > There would be a generic graphics driver of sorts, that is primarily
> > concerned with setting the state of the graphics board.  I dont know the
> > specifics, but what I see is a kernel module for each of the cards that
> > implements a certain set of functions that set the state.  These would
> > be well defined by the generic driver interface, and called when
> > necessary to switch resolutions, etc.
> 
> In the PC world, there is already a generic graphis driver for setting the
> state of the board available, its called BIOS. The only problem the free
> BSD's have, is to access it.
> 
> If we could access the BIOS, it would be responsible for switching back and
> forth into the card-supported video modes, and neither the console driver
> nor the X server would have to care anymore about it.

Right, then we only need to worry about how to set/get a pixel, how to
do banking/linear framebuffer, how to use eventual accellerator functions,
how to handle the palette chip, and god knows what I have forgotten...

This is a maze that magically grows on you on entrance. And now that the
first real 3D cards are going to hit us, I'm sure the HW guys has a new
load of fun stuff for us :( :(

There is work for plenty of KNOWLEDGEABLE people full time here...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 06:12:28 1997
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At 07:42 AM 2/18/97 -0600,Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>  wrote:

>BTW, pgp or some other digital signature could enhance the security of the
>sources which are distributed by mail.
>We have previously discussed such an addition to CTM.
>However, to date, there has not been a problem.

>
Would it be feasable to provide just the approiate checksums or the like
at a secure Distribution point that users could obtain through pgp ie:email
Then the hacker would have to comprimise both ends of the link!

>Further, it can be argued that such a feature might cause an even greater
>false sense of security. A breach at the source is still a possibility.
>No amount of safeguarding can replace diligence on the part of the receiver
>of the information.
>
I couldn't agree more, but a split D-point sure would make it MORE then just
hard.

Regards ..je


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 06:56:58 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:55:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert N Watson <rnw+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org
Subject: Password expire + account expire fields in pwdb
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These are very useful fields -- but it would be nice if these blocked
login for all locations :).  Users can still ssh in long after the
account has expired, etc.  Would it be possible to implement a pluggable
"authenticate" function somewhere?  It would take a username, encrypted
password string (or unencrypted?), and then authenticate, either
returning some true value, or a pointer to a string indicating why
authentication failed.  This could be "Incorrect login", or "Account
Expired", etc.  This would require some changes in ports of
applications, but would allow for a more consistent approach to login
prevention.  Presumably it could be patched into popper, ssh, samba,
etc.  Either that, or scrap the expiration fields -- very few of my
users log in without ssh anymore, making the fields a waste of space. 
:)  Not being able to force password changes on ssh in a consistent way
is not ideal in our environment.  Doing this might coincide nicely with
installing pluggable authentication for encryption/secure cards, etc.

Robert 

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 06:57:09 1997
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To: "..je" <jehrenkrantz@whyy.org>
From: Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>
Subject: Re: I guess we need to read all code, not just SUID stuff !
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>At 07:42 AM 2/18/97 -0600,Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>  wrote:
>
>>BTW, pgp or some other digital signature could enhance the security of the
>>sources which are distributed by mail.
>>We have previously discussed such an addition to CTM.
>>However, to date, there has not been a problem.
>
>>
>Would it be feasable to provide just the approiate checksums or the like
>at a secure Distribution point that users could obtain through pgp ie:email
>Then the hacker would have to comprimise both ends of the link!

The problem is that the source is just too dynamic. In order to provide such
checksums, we would have to automate the process. This would leave it
open to the single point of attack at the source.

If you are worried that a particular mirror is corrupt, you can always
reference another. And mirrors should occasionally pay the price to revalidate
all of their files against the master.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 08:25:45 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702181623.JAA11143@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: plug-and-play support for UART cards?
To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:23:16 -0700 (MST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702180406.UAA05285@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Feb 17, 97 08:06:40 pm
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> I just picked up a TurboExpress Port 920 16C750 based UART card from
> pacific commware.  This card has no jumpers, it's meant to be a completely
> plug-and-pray devices.
> 
> I need to use it in a box that has no BIOS support for plug-and-play devices.
> Does anyone have a pointer to the pnp standard so I can poke this thing to
> make it appear in the right spots?

There is plug-n-play code for FreeBSD for BIOS-less machines.  It was
written by Sujal Patel.  In general, it is maintained and integrated
by people on the multimedia list (multimedia@freebsd.org).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 08:30:36 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702181627.JAA11155@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:27:01 -0700 (MST)
Cc: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, jdc@xinside.com, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org,
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In-Reply-To: <199702180500.VAA00752@lightside.com> from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 17, 97 09:00:50 pm
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> The worst part about the Sun, though, was that 
> there's actually an OpenBoot FORTH (in other words INTERPRETED) program in 
> the card's ROM which is used to draw the characters out to the screen, 
> leading to painfully slow speeds (slower than even a 9600 baud terminal on 
> the SPARC 2's) and tremendous CPU utilization, although it seems that NetBSD 
> and Solaris manage to speed up the console somehow, compared to SunOS 
> (NetBSD actually has a "RASTERCONSOLE" in the kernel, which probably has 
> something to do with it).

Look at the NetBSD console code.  They did it by preemptively scrolling
multiple lines at a time (4, I believe) when they hit LF at the end of
the screen.  The slowest part of the console code is the scrolling (easy
to understand why, without a bit-blit or memory page offset selector
to implement the scroll).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 08:36:54 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702181633.JAA11168@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net (Chris Csanady)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:33:57 -0700 (MST)
Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702180638.AAA05778@nyx.pr.mcs.net> from "Chris Csanady" at Feb 18, 97 00:38:42 am
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> Others have mentioned that a frame buffer would be really slow, but that
> really wasn't my intention, I should have explained a little better.  It
> seems I misused the term frame buffer.. what I was trying to get at was
> the seperation of the code that sets the state of the graphics card, and
> the code that uses it, with drawing, acceleration or whatever else.

Yes.  Effectively, you would move the DDX (Device Dependent X) code
into the kernel.  By default, you'd do generic VGA, and you'd allow
a replacement driver with card specific knowledge to be loaded as an
LKM.

Ideally, you would make a distinction in the kernel between low, medium,
and high persistence kernel memory objects, and you would make segment
coloring in the binary standard, so as to seperate the character of the
driver you are replacing from the character of the rest of the code in
the kernel.  Finally, you would allow the driver you are replacing to
have its mapping paged out once it is replaced, in order to recover
the memory from the now-useless driver.

Segment coloring requires ELF or similar object file technology.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 08:40:32 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:39:16 +0300 (MSK)
From: "Maxim A. Bolotin" <max@rnd.runnet.ru>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Internet class in RSU.
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We'll have internet class granted by J.Sorros. IBM's main company that
provide us computers and other equip. We want istall there FreeBSD.
There are 46 computers IBM PC model 320 (or something). I know that there
will be EtherJet network card from IBM. Will it work with FreeBSD?
If Not, Where can I find people that can help me make it.
		Max.
-
Rostov State University   Computer Center
Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476
Russia, RUNNet               max@run.net.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 08:43:24 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702181640.JAA11183@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:40:05 -0700 (MST)
Cc: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702180900.UAA22646@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> from "David Dawes" at Feb 18, 97 08:00:02 pm
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> A large proportion of the hw-specific code is required precisely for
> initialising the state of the graphics card.  From our (XFree86's)
> experience, this is the hard part.  The rest is relatively easy.

[ ... ]

> >>Have a look at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pcvt/set2061/, just to get the
> >>feeling for _one_ (now already fairly aged) piece of hardware that
> >>needs to be supported, the ICD2061A clock synthesizer.
> 
> And the exact details of programming a chip like this depends on the
> card it is on.  The version in pcvt/set2061 only deals with S3 cards.

And initialization code can be thrown away after use, so there is no
reason not not mark the segment as "init, discardable", or if you
need to use the code again "preload, pageable".

In point of fact, if the code gets into a signle object module segment,
there is no reason that it can't be used to replace the object module
segment for the default video driver it is replacing, in the kernel
image itself.  This would provide an easy way of "building" a "new"
kernel, without needing to actaully relink anything at all.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 08:50:50 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702181647.JAA11201@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: hm@kts.org
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:47:12 -0700 (MST)
Cc: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de,
        FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <m0vwmOw-00001YC@ernie.kts.org> from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Feb 18, 97 11:03:54 am
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> In the PC world, there is already a generic graphis driver for setting the
> state of the board available, its called BIOS. The only problem the free
> BSD's have, is to access it.
> 
> If we could access the BIOS, it would be responsible for switching back and
> forth into the card-supported video modes, and neither the console driver
> nor the X server would have to care anymore about it.

And the nifty thing about most INT 10 BIOS implementations ever since
Paradise video cards came out in the early 80's, is that they disable
all interrupts during BIOS processing so they can guarantee they don't
put "sparklies" (remember "sparklies"?) on the screen by having the
processor go and do something else and throwing their action out of
the vertical retrace.

And everyone knows, it's more important to avoid "sparklies" on the
console screen than it is to process half a million FDDI or fast
ethernet packets, right?

...Wait... that's not nifty.


Really, INT 10 is a piece of shit and should not be used, even on NT
or NetWare, if the system is supposed to function effectively as a
server at all.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 09:12:45 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:08:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Coleman <chris@bb.cc.wa.us>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: multiprotocol routing.
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.3.94.970218090555.19898A-100000@aries.bb.cc.wa.us>
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Can FreeBSD do multiprotocol routing?

more specifically can FreeBSD route IPX as a Gateway.

I have FreeBSD and i want to put it as a gateway between two different
networks.  The novell servers on each side still need to be able to talk
to each other.

thanks

Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us)
Computer Support Technician I  (509)-766-8873
Big Bend Community College  Internet Instructor
FreeBSD Book Project:  http://www.bb.cc.wa.us/~chris/book.html
I may Be inaffective, but atleast I am good at it.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 09:20:04 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:14:43 +0000
From: Andrei Biryukov <amb@elvisti.kiev.ua>
Organization: ElVisti
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I've got a question.

Does FreeBSD support the Multiport serial sync Óard MOXA C-204 or not ?

-- 
Biryukov Andrei IC ElVisti
E-mail amb@elvisti.kiev.ua

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 09:23:14 1997
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To: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
From: "Tim Oneil" <toneil@visigenic.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 12:07 AM 2/16/97 +1100, you wrote:
>1. Solaris

You've got to be kidding.

>2. FreeBSD
>3. Linux
>(and a long way behind...)
>4. NetBSD

>I installed on a standard clone, no special cards, etc.  Solaris was by
>far the easiest, well, maybe the disk partitioning is a bit confusing.

I have to agree, installing solaris is like a hand-held tour through
a park.

>If I was a user, I'd also like the Solaris boot the best, too.

This I don't see. As soon as its installed and ready to go, it looks
like any other posix compliant os. Just as cryptic (so to speak) as
any other. BSD, Solaris, AIX, HPUX, they all look the same to me at
the console.

>A lot of people here will disagree with me, perhaps, but when I look at
>the bootup screen for Solaris2, I see a finish built for users who don't
>know or care about hardware details etc (makes FreeBSD and others look

Your right, I think a lot of people will disagree. I don't see much
difference here either. My sun box probes scsi ports and whatnot just
the same as my bsd box at boot time.

>like "hacks").  If I could, I'd advocate that the free unixes have a
>similar quiet boot as default and a "verbose" option to see all the junk
>messages about detecting disks, etc.  I see the same with NT4.0 (there is
>a way to get a "verbose" boot).  Hack, on a fast PC, those boot messages
>disappear too quickly to digest anyway!

Thats why they come with options like the f8 key, so that people who are
more interested in getting things done and don't have time to be afraid
of thier hardware can see those messages.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 09:49:58 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702181747.KAA11344@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Internet class in RSU.
To: max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:47:15 -0700 (MST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970218193529.17176A-100000@altos.rnd.runnet.ru> from "Maxim A. Bolotin" at Feb 18, 97 07:39:16 pm
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> We'll have internet class granted by J.Sorros. IBM's main company that
> provide us computers and other equip. We want istall there FreeBSD.
> There are 46 computers IBM PC model 320 (or something). I know that there
> will be EtherJet network card from IBM. Will it work with FreeBSD?
> If Not, Where can I find people that can help me make it.

Most likely you will be running AIX on these machines.  They are not
Intel processor based.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 10:05:21 1997
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To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Serial Console
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:04:06 -0600
From: John Prince <johnp@lodgenet.com>
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When boot is compiled with BOOT_PROBE_KEYBOARD, the serial console
detection works fine. However /dev/console now goes nowhere..
I have tried this on 2.15 and 2.2-BETA_A. 
A quick fix has been to :
mv /dev/console /dev/console.old
ln -s /dev/cuaa0 /dev/console
Should the kernel be handling the change?

Thanks
John Prince
--

johnp@lodgenet.com
jprince@iw.net






From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 10:27:56 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:27:43 -0800
To: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
From: "Tim Oneil" <toneil@visigenic.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
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At 10:27 PM 2/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Jake Hamby wrote:
>
>> I also suggest that FreeBSD add a splash screen with clearly printed 
>> directions on how to bypass it to see the hardware probes underneath.
>
>The windows 95 splash screen disappears at the press of Escape,
>revealing whatever is going on on the console (not much usually). 

Thats for sure. Even though Microsoft played Win95 off as a 'true 32 bit'
os, and it looks really neat while the 'hardware wizard' does its own
probing and selects device drivers and etc, at boot time I notice that
it continues to load the old 16 bit drivers that were (on this particular
machine) there before 95 was installed. I presume that these drivers are
loaded becuase 95 happily continues to execute whatever autoexec.bat is
present. But I have to wonder, is 95 actually using those 16 bit drivers,
or does it discard them after it restores state? I much prefer the probe
messages on my BSD box, at least I have a fighting chance of knowing
EXACTLY whats wrong if something fails at boot time.

-Tim


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 10:40:46 1997
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From: John Hay <jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
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Subject: Re: multiprotocol routing.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.94.970218090555.19898A-100000@aries.bb.cc.wa.us> from Chris Coleman at "Feb 18, 97 09:08:52 am"
To: chris@bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:40:06 +0200 (SAT)
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> Can FreeBSD do multiprotocol routing?
> 
> more specifically can FreeBSD route IPX as a Gateway.
> 
> I have FreeBSD and i want to put it as a gateway between two different
> networks.  The novell servers on each side still need to be able to talk
> to each other.

Yes, FreeBSD 2.2 and later can. Have a look in the mailing list archives.
I have described how to set it up a few times.

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 11:58:18 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:57:49 +0100
From: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser)
To: max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin)
Cc: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser), hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Acer ALTOS 7000 instalation problem.
References: <19970217201949.SG24812@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970218131354.29469B-100000@altos.rnd.runnet.ru>
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On Feb 18, max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin) wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Stefan Esser wrote:
> > 1) Chip set (vendor and type)
> Acer ALTOS 7000, Acer BIOS V1.2R1.0, 1993,
> 7 EISA slots, AIC 7770, twin channel.

Hmmm, I still have no idea what the chip-set might be ...

> > 2) Version of FreeBSD (2.1.x or 2.2.x)
> It was with 2.1.0, 2.1.5, 2.1.6, and NOW with 2.2-GAMMA:

Ok. I should look into this :)

> FreeBSD 2.2-970205-GAMMA #0: Mon Feb 10 19:03:30 MSK 1997
> It's my kernel, without contorller pci0.

Ok. Obviously it works without pci0 defined. Now we need
to find out, what goes wrong if it is enabled ...

> ahc0: <Adaptec aic7770 SCSI host adapter> at 0x9c00-0x9cff irq 11
> ahc0: on eisa0 slot 9

This appears to be your only EISA card ...

> > You can build a kernel without PCI support
> > (remove the line "controller pci0" and all
> > the PCI specific drivers), and install it 
> > under a non-default name, eg. /kernel.altos.
> I know about it, I have worked my computer, but I can't do normal
> upgrade procedure 'cause I can't boot from standart boot floppy.
> Can I turn off controller pci0 in visual config or something ?

No, sorry, the PCI can't be deactivated from 
the user config screen.

> I think it's a common problem, or maybe not. Maybe only Acer hang out
> after pci probing :-(.

No, this is not a common problem ...

There have been a few PCI chip-sets, that failed 
to follow the PCI specs. To compensate for that, 
I had to implement certain heuristics, in order to 
identify those broken chips. But these heuristics 
may cause problems on some systems with EISA bus.

Could you please apply the following patch, build
a kernel with pci0, boot with "-v", and send me 
the boot messages ?

I would also like to know the numbers from all 
messages that contain "pcibus_setup" or other PCI
bus specific messages from the 2.2 boot floppy 
kernel. You may have to write down those numbers,
since the system will not work with that kernel.
(I don't need the text of the messages, but the
(1), (1a), ... that identify those PCI lines.)

Thanks in advance, STefan

Index: /sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c,v
retrieving revision 1.27
diff -C2 -r1.27 pcibus.c
*** pcibus.c	1996/10/30 22:38:55	1.27
--- pcibus.c	1997/02/18 19:49:52
***************
*** 200,203 ****
--- 200,204 ----
  	*/
  
+ #ifdef undef
  	if ((oldval1 & CONF1_ENABLE_MSK) == 0) {
  
***************
*** 232,235 ****
--- 233,237 ----
  		};
  	}
+ #endif
  
  	/*---------------------------------------
***************
*** 244,247 ****
--- 246,250 ----
  	}
  
+ #idef undef
  	if ((oldval2 & 0xf0) == 0) {
  
***************
*** 265,268 ****
--- 268,272 ----
  		}
  	}
+ #endif
  
  	/*---------------------------------------

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 12:05:13 1997
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From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: looking for QualComm qpopper testers to try new patch
To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:39:11 +0000 (GMT)
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> I'd like the UIDL to simply be the message ID, but frankly, they are NOT
> unique, and the author of QPOP realized that too.

Indeed. However the combination

<messageid><host><localreceivedtime>

is pretty safe.

Alan


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 12:05:47 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 03:47:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Samplonius <tom@sdf.com>
To: John Prince <johnp@lodgenet.com>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Serial Console
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On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, John Prince wrote:

> When boot is compiled with BOOT_PROBE_KEYBOARD, the serial console
> detection works fine. However /dev/console now goes nowhere..
> I have tried this on 2.15 and 2.2-BETA_A. 

  Are you sure?  I've just done this recently on a 2.1.6 system, and
/dev/console was directed to the serial console.

> A quick fix has been to :
> mv /dev/console /dev/console.old
> ln -s /dev/cuaa0 /dev/console
> Should the kernel be handling the change?
>
> Thanks
> John Prince
> --
> 
> johnp@lodgenet.com
> jprince@iw.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 12:18:30 1997
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To: Tom Samplonius <tom@sdf.com>
cc: John Prince <johnp@lodgenet.com>, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Serial Console 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Feb 1997 03:47:29 PST."
             <Pine.NEB.3.94.970218034626.8671A-100000@misery.sdf.com> 
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Tom Samplonius writes:
> 
> On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, John Prince wrote:
> 
> > When boot is compiled with BOOT_PROBE_KEYBOARD, the serial console
> > detection works fine. However /dev/console now goes nowhere..
> > I have tried this on 2.15 and 2.2-BETA_A. 
> 
>   Are you sure?  I've just done this recently on a 2.1.6 system, and
> /dev/console was directed to the serial console.

With out a doubt.. The problem was first noticed on 2.1.5, and 
this morning duplicated on a 2.2-BETA_A.
--john
> 
> Tom




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 12:42:24 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:20:10 +0100
From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: CTC Linux Mandate
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According to Tom Samplonius:
>   Huh?  Doesn't 2.2 and higher use phkmalloc which according to reports is
> *better* than gnumalloc?  Plus, isn't gnumalloc being depreciated out of
> FreeBSD?

2.2 yes. I think the original poster was talking about 2.1.*... There are a
lot a people still in 2.1.* so my comment still apply.
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
  FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 12:42:43 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702182039.HAA06461@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <m0vwmOw-00001YC@ernie.kts.org> from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Feb 18, 97 11:03:54 am"
To: hm@kts.org
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:09:45 +1030 (CST)
Cc: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de,
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Hellmuth Michaelis stands accused of saying:
> 
> In the PC world, there is already a generic graphis driver for setting the
> state of the board available, its called BIOS. The only problem the free
> BSD's have, is to access it.

This is, of course, not really a useful solution.  Please people,
don't assume that the last decade has been devoid of programmers that
understand the PC's video subsystem - none of the ideas that have been
raised recently are original, and the fact that they haven't been
implemented should tell you something very important.

> If we could access the BIOS, it would be responsible for switching back and
> forth into the card-supported video modes, and neither the console driver
> nor the X server would have to care anymore about it.

Yeah, and you're really going to trust the BIOS on the card to work in
a non-DOS environment?  Hell, even W95 isn't that stupid.

If you're serious about using the BIOS, how about you sit down and work out
 - how to identify a 32-bit-happy VESA BIOS.
 - what external resources a sample of them require (memory assumptions,
   interrupt expectations, etc).

With those two covered, it would be possible to use the BIOS for some things,
but it's not a useful general solution.

> hellmuth michaelis                hm@kts.org                    hamburg, europe

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 12:53:56 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702182050.NAA11612@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
To: toneil@visigenic.com (Tim Oneil)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:50:34 -0700 (MST)
Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970218102743.00998100@visigenic.com> from "Tim Oneil" at Feb 18, 97 10:27:43 am
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> Thats for sure. Even though Microsoft played Win95 off as a 'true 32 bit'
> os, and it looks really neat while the 'hardware wizard' does its own
> probing and selects device drivers and etc, at boot time I notice that
> it continues to load the old 16 bit drivers that were (on this particular
> machine) there before 95 was installed. I presume that these drivers are
> loaded becuase 95 happily continues to execute whatever autoexec.bat is
> present. But I have to wonder, is 95 actually using those 16 bit drivers,
> or does it discard them after it restores state?

Loading Win95 on a system will rename the "config.sys" and "autoexec.bat"
to "config.dos" and "autoexec.dos" so that they will not be run by default.

You *must* have installed something that crapped in those two files
and created them, as a side effect (maybe because it expected to be
installed on Windows 3.1), OR you *must* have renamed the files back
after the installation completed.


Windows95 actually loads whatever you tell it to in config.sys or
autoexec.bat... or, rather, "DOS 7.0" loads them.

If you did it so you could run (for instance) a server of some kind,
then autoexec.bat is the wrong place under Windows95, anyway.  The
correct place is in the registry, as an entry under:

	My Computer
	    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
		SOFTWARE
		    Microsoft
			Windows
			    CurrentVersion
				RunServices

Of course, this isn't documented, and the one place that tells you
how to start a service so it doesn't stop the first time someone
logs in, then out, to log on as a different user is *deeply* hidden
in one obscure sentence in one obscure paragraph in one obscure
function example in the VC++ online documentation.


After you switch to protected mode, the drivers may or may not be
referenced; in a DOS window, they will *probably* be referenced.  If
they hook INT 21 or INT 31, whether or not they are referenced
depends on certain system settings.  By default, they won't be, but
you can force them to be, for a small set of interfaces.

In point of fact, Windows95 takes a lot of effort to ensure that
TSR's loaded like this continue to work after going to protected
mode, evenn going so far as to convert the 16 bit file handles
into IFS file handles so that the TSR's continue to operate, but
INT 21 references go through the IFS (and then to VFAT, by default)
after the INT 21 hooks have supplanted the INT 21 implemented in
io.sys.

VFAT actually does a number of lame things; it's installed as three
seperate IFS layers so that it can supply it's own TSD, it's own
partition handling, and the FSD that actually implements the FS.
It's actually because someone looked at this lameness that IOmega
provided their own lame drivers for their ZIP and JAZ drives, instead
of providing a TSD to handle the removable media aspects of the drive;
IOmega's broken because VFAT is broken, and they used it as a model;
it pisses me off each time I go to use the drive under Windows 95.

If you *need* the 16 bit drivers (for instance, you have an unsupported
CDROM drive, or an older networking client that depends on hooking
the appropriate file I/O interrupts), you can force Win95 to use them
by:

	Click right button on "My Computer" icon
	  Select "Properties" menu item to open the "System Properties"
	  property dialog.
	    Click the "Performance" tab
	      Click the "File System..." button in the group box
	      labelled "Advanced Settings" to open the
	      "File System Properties" dialog
		Click the "Troubleshooting" tab
		  Check the following checkboxes:
		    "Disable protect-mode hard disk interrupt handling"
		    "Disable all 32 bit protect-mode disk drivers"
		      "OK" your way out, and let it reboot when it
		      wants to.


Personally, I don't think you should do this... instead, you should
find out why someone put the config.sys and autoexec.bat back in after
Windows95 renamed them to get rid of them during your install.  Then
*really* correct whatever problem the person *thought* they were fixing;
it might be as simple as them not wanting to buy a Windows95 version
of some third party networking product (for instance).


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 13:24:02 1997
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Message-ID: <19970218214241.GQ48138@@>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:42:41 +0100
From: pb@fasterix.freenix.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Cc: ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, jdc@xinside.com, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org,
        FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
References: <199702180500.VAA00752@lightside.com>
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Jake Hamby writes:
> > Thanks for the suggestions though.  It would certainly make our lives
> > simpler if everyone was happy with plain framebuffer performance!
> 
> Having seen the Sun console frame buffer on the older SPARCstations (like 
> the SPARCstation 2), I am absolutely positive you don't want that on the PC!

I tend to agree... However it could be much faster on the PC than
it is on the Sun (since we don't have to use FORTH to handle it).

But it's not worth the trouble, IMHO. The extended width VGA text
modes are enough.

> The problem with the Sun console, that Jeremy didn't mention, is that the 
> frame buffer doesn't actually have a built-in text mode, like VGA cards do.  

Actually, I've recently been told that the Sun framebuffer _has_
a much faster built-in text mode and it is used by Linux/SPARC.
I haven't seen it myself (I'm not sure if it's a real text mode,
maybe they just reimplemented bitmap characters in C).
-- 
Pierre Beyssac	    pb@fasterix.frmug.fr.net pb@fasterix.freenix.fr
{Free,Net,Open}BSD, Linux : il y a moins bien, mais c'est plus cher
    Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 13:28:14 1997
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Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id VAA07655; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:36:51 +0100
From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702182036.VAA07655@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: A Reliable Multicast protocol (RMDP)
To: end2end-interest@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:36:50 +0100 (MET)
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If someone is interested, a very experimental version of our (Lorenzo
Vicisano and myself) Reliable Multicast data Distribution Protocol
(RMDP) is available at

	http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/rmdp-alpha.tgz

It includes sources for both a client and a server.  It works much
like ftp, over multicast or unicast UDP. I have a server (rmdpd)
running at my site, mirroring a subset of my web page, so you can
try it by asking

    rmdp [-u | -t TTL ] [-o outfile] rmdp://labinfo2.iet.unipi.it/index.html

where -u is used for unicast UDP, and -t is used to set the TTL for the
multicast request. 

This prototype still does not implement congestion control, which
is in the works, and is independent of rmdp anyways.

Even as it is now (I don't expect more than a few users), it is
not a worse net-citizien than "vic" and friends, since it is
rate-limited at the sender (defaults at 64Kbit/s) and files are
not as long as video stream...

Feedback welcome.

	Cheers
	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 14:41:26 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702182236.PAA11843@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:36:45 -0700 (MST)
Cc: hm@kts.org, ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de,
        FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702182039.HAA06461@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 19, 97 07:09:45 am
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> > In the PC world, there is already a generic graphis driver for setting the
> > state of the board available, its called BIOS. The only problem the free
> > BSD's have, is to access it.
> 
> This is, of course, not really a useful solution.  Please people,
> don't assume that the last decade has been devoid of programmers that
> understand the PC's video subsystem - none of the ideas that have been
> raised recently are original, and the fact that they haven't been
> implemented should tell you something very important.

That the FreeBSD hackers have problems implementing something the
Linux guys already have?  8-) 8-) 8-).

Seriously, there is a GGI project for Linux... and it already works.
Linus just refuses to let it in the door (like I've said in other
postings, Linux has similar organizational limits, it's just taken
them longer to hit them because of their fractal complexity being an
order higher than FreeBSD's).


					Regars,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 14:45:45 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:44:53 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199702182244.OAA04585@vader.cs.berkeley.edu>
To: bde@zeta.org.au
CC: dg@root.com, scrappy@hub.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org,
        kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: <199702181145.WAA07012@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:45:39 +1100)
Subject: Re: ccd and bounce buffers
From: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * >   Ahh...see Bruce's message about b_bcount not being initialized properly.
 * >BTW, has anyone fixed this yet?
 * 
 * b_bufsize.  John fixed it 5 weeks ago in -current and the change was
 * merged into 2.2.  It is still broken in -stable :-(.

Oh, sorry.  I will merge it into -stable (if it's not too late).

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 14:49:43 1997
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 * Oh, sorry.  I will merge it into -stable (if it's not too late).

Oops, seems like DavidG just beat me to it. :)

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 14:53:23 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702182249.JAA07175@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <199702182236.PAA11843@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 18, 97 03:36:45 pm"
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:19:11 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hm@kts.org, ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net,
        joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Terry Lambert stands accused of saying:
> > 
> > This is, of course, not really a useful solution.  Please people,
> > don't assume that the last decade has been devoid of programmers that
> > understand the PC's video subsystem - none of the ideas that have been
> > raised recently are original, and the fact that they haven't been
> > implemented should tell you something very important.
> 
> That the FreeBSD hackers have problems implementing something the
> Linux guys already have?  8-) 8-) 8-).

Huh? They call the BIOS out of their bootstrap loader to set the video
mode.  Yay; I prefer the space used in ours to do the serial console
stuff properly.

The SVGATextmode stuff had been done for FreeBSD, and if I thought it
was worth the effort, I'd try to help Soren get it working.  As it is,
a $60 PCI video card gives more than enough X grunt for snazzy text modes
to be a complete waste of time.

> 					Terry Lambert

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 14:55:28 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702182254.JAA07289@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <199702182249.JAA07175@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Feb 19, 97 09:19:11 am"
To: msmith@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:24:32 +1030 (CST)
Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Michael Smith stands accused of saying:
> 
> The SVGATextmode stuff had been done for FreeBSD, and if I thought it
> was worth the effort, I'd try to help Soren get it working.  As it is,

Should clarify here; I trust proff when he says it works for him, I refer
only to getting it integrated with the system in a fashion people would
accept.

Sorry for the implied slur, Julian.


-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 15:08:41 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:06:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Jamie Bowden <jamie@inna.net>
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: Tim Oneil <toneil@visigenic.com>, jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
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You're wrong Terry.  The win31 -> win95 upgrade copies your autoexec and 
config files to .dos, and rems some of the old drivers (like msdex) out, 
but overall it will use the 16bit dos drivers happily.  You can set it up 
to boot to a dos prompt and exit back out to a dos promt if you want.  
It's still just dos/windoze.

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > Thats for sure. Even though Microsoft played Win95 off as a 'true 32 bit'
> > os, and it looks really neat while the 'hardware wizard' does its own
> > probing and selects device drivers and etc, at boot time I notice that
> > it continues to load the old 16 bit drivers that were (on this particular
> > machine) there before 95 was installed. I presume that these drivers are
> > loaded becuase 95 happily continues to execute whatever autoexec.bat is
> > present. But I have to wonder, is 95 actually using those 16 bit drivers,
> > or does it discard them after it restores state?
> 
> Loading Win95 on a system will rename the "config.sys" and "autoexec.bat"
> to "config.dos" and "autoexec.dos" so that they will not be run by default.
> 
> You *must* have installed something that crapped in those two files
> and created them, as a side effect (maybe because it expected to be
> installed on Windows 3.1), OR you *must* have renamed the files back
> after the installation completed.
> 
> 
> Windows95 actually loads whatever you tell it to in config.sys or
> autoexec.bat... or, rather, "DOS 7.0" loads them.
> 
> If you did it so you could run (for instance) a server of some kind,
> then autoexec.bat is the wrong place under Windows95, anyway.  The
> correct place is in the registry, as an entry under:
> 
> 	My Computer
> 	    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
> 		SOFTWARE
> 		    Microsoft
> 			Windows
> 			    CurrentVersion
> 				RunServices
> 
> Of course, this isn't documented, and the one place that tells you
> how to start a service so it doesn't stop the first time someone
> logs in, then out, to log on as a different user is *deeply* hidden
> in one obscure sentence in one obscure paragraph in one obscure
> function example in the VC++ online documentation.
> 
> 
> After you switch to protected mode, the drivers may or may not be
> referenced; in a DOS window, they will *probably* be referenced.  If
> they hook INT 21 or INT 31, whether or not they are referenced
> depends on certain system settings.  By default, they won't be, but
> you can force them to be, for a small set of interfaces.
> 
> In point of fact, Windows95 takes a lot of effort to ensure that
> TSR's loaded like this continue to work after going to protected
> mode, evenn going so far as to convert the 16 bit file handles
> into IFS file handles so that the TSR's continue to operate, but
> INT 21 references go through the IFS (and then to VFAT, by default)
> after the INT 21 hooks have supplanted the INT 21 implemented in
> io.sys.
> 
> VFAT actually does a number of lame things; it's installed as three
> seperate IFS layers so that it can supply it's own TSD, it's own
> partition handling, and the FSD that actually implements the FS.
> It's actually because someone looked at this lameness that IOmega
> provided their own lame drivers for their ZIP and JAZ drives, instead
> of providing a TSD to handle the removable media aspects of the drive;
> IOmega's broken because VFAT is broken, and they used it as a model;
> it pisses me off each time I go to use the drive under Windows 95.
> 
> If you *need* the 16 bit drivers (for instance, you have an unsupported
> CDROM drive, or an older networking client that depends on hooking
> the appropriate file I/O interrupts), you can force Win95 to use them
> by:
> 
> 	Click right button on "My Computer" icon
> 	  Select "Properties" menu item to open the "System Properties"
> 	  property dialog.
> 	    Click the "Performance" tab
> 	      Click the "File System..." button in the group box
> 	      labelled "Advanced Settings" to open the
> 	      "File System Properties" dialog
> 		Click the "Troubleshooting" tab
> 		  Check the following checkboxes:
> 		    "Disable protect-mode hard disk interrupt handling"
> 		    "Disable all 32 bit protect-mode disk drivers"
> 		      "OK" your way out, and let it reboot when it
> 		      wants to.
> 
> 
> Personally, I don't think you should do this... instead, you should
> find out why someone put the config.sys and autoexec.bat back in after
> Windows95 renamed them to get rid of them during your install.  Then
> *really* correct whatever problem the person *thought* they were fixing;
> it might be as simple as them not wanting to buy a Windows95 version
> of some third party networking product (for instance).
> 
> 
> 					Regards,
> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org
> ---
> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
> or previous employers.
> 

Jamie Bowden

Network Administrator, TBI Ltd.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 15:32:35 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702182332.KAA07533@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Small wd.c patch for big disks
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:02:25 +1030 (CST)
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I've been running here with a couple of big (5G) IDE disks on a pair
of systems for a few days now, and all seems most happy ('make
release' etc runs fine), so the last loose end is fixing the capacity 
printed at probe time.

I've committed the following patch to -current; any objections for this 
going into 2.2?

*** wd.c.old    Wed Feb 19 16:17:47 1997
--- wd.c        Wed Feb 19 16:34:59 1997
***************
*** 415,421 ****
  "wd%d: %luMB (%lu sectors), %lu cyls, %lu heads, %lu S/T, %lu B/S\n",
                               lunit,
                               du->dk_dd.d_secperunit
!                              * du->dk_dd.d_secsize / (1024 * 1024),
                               du->dk_dd.d_secperunit,
                               du->dk_dd.d_ncylinders,
                               du->dk_dd.d_ntracks,
--- 415,421 ----
  "wd%d: %luMB (%lu sectors), %lu cyls, %lu heads, %lu S/T, %lu B/S\n",
                               lunit,
                               du->dk_dd.d_secperunit
!                              / ((1024L * 1024L) / du->dk_dd.d_secsize),
                               du->dk_dd.d_secperunit,
                               du->dk_dd.d_ncylinders,
                               du->dk_dd.d_ntracks,


-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 15:39:29 1997
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From: Gary Clark II <gclarkii@main.gbdata.com>
Message-Id: <199702182340.RAA12933@main.gbdata.com>
Subject: question on BSDI shared libraries
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Hello,

Does anyone know if you can use a share BSDI app if you have the
shared libs to go in /shlib?  One of my customers wnat to run
Post.Office from Software.COM and they only have a 'shared' version of
it.  Or would the sco have a better chance?

Gary

-- 
Gary Clark II   (N5VMF) |    I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company 
gclarkii@GBData.COM     |          Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team 
  Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information
   FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii 

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 16:35:51 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702190031.RAA12085@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
To: jamie@inna.net (Jamie Bowden)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:31:39 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> You're wrong Terry.  The win31 -> win95 upgrade copies your autoexec and 
> config files to .dos, and rems some of the old drivers (like msdex) out, 
> but overall it will use the 16bit dos drivers happily.

Not according to King and Schulman... it is well known that you must
disable the PM disk drivers in order to use software that hooks the
16 bit disk interrupts.  For instance, LANtastic for Windows 3.x, a
product of my current employer.

Also, the autoexec.dos/config.dos are not used when the system is
started, but autoexec.bat and config.sys are.  I know because it's
where I load WinICE and the only IFS FSD (file system driver) for
fixed disks ever written outside of Microsoft... by me and two other
Artisoft engineers.


> You can set it up 
> to boot to a dos prompt and exit back out to a dos promt if you want.  

Yes, I know.  The Schulman book goes into great, gory detail.  I also
had to hack the io.sys and boot code to get DOS 7.0 to boot from a
UFS partition.  I'm rather intimately familiar with the boot code.


> It's still just dos/windoze.

It's mostly DOS/Windows.  A lot of it isn't, particularly the VM and
the scheduler code.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 16:39:56 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702190035.RAA12107@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:35:54 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hm@kts.org,
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> > > This is, of course, not really a useful solution.  Please people,
> > > don't assume that the last decade has been devoid of programmers that
> > > understand the PC's video subsystem - none of the ideas that have been
> > > raised recently are original, and the fact that they haven't been
> > > implemented should tell you something very important.
> > 
> > That the FreeBSD hackers have problems implementing something the
> > Linux guys already have?  8-) 8-) 8-).
> 
> Huh? They call the BIOS out of their bootstrap loader to set the video
> mode.  Yay; I prefer the space used in ours to do the serial console
> stuff properly.

Look at the "Linux GGI" code (run a search on AltaVista for it, or
look for "Generic Graphic Interface" in the Linux groups on DejaNews).
It is *exactly* the "super console" design that never got done in
the BSD camps after it was first discussed in fall of 1993.

You won't find it on the "Linux roadmap" because Linus won't integrate
it, even though it works.


> The SVGATextmode stuff had been done for FreeBSD, and if I thought it
> was worth the effort, I'd try to help Soren get it working.  As it is,
> a $60 PCI video card gives more than enough X grunt for snazzy text modes
> to be a complete waste of time.

That code is totally unrelated to the GGI code; it's not what I'm
referring to.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 17:07:04 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:11:20 +0100
From: peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl (Peter Korsten)
To: toneil@visigenic.com (Tim Oneil)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
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Tim Oneil shared with us:
> >
> >[splash screen]
> 
> Thats for sure. Even though Microsoft played Win95 off as a 'true 32 bit'
> os, and it looks really neat while the 'hardware wizard' does its own
> probing and selects device drivers and etc, at boot time I notice that
> it continues to load the old 16 bit drivers that were (on this particular
> machine) there before 95 was installed. I presume that these drivers are
> loaded becuase 95 happily continues to execute whatever autoexec.bat is
> present. But I have to wonder, is 95 actually using those 16 bit drivers,
> or does it discard them after it restores state?

Oh, sure it uses them. A lot of the instability of 95 is caused by
those 16 bits drivers (so cleaning your autoexec.bat and config.sys
is a Good Thing). It even installs drivers that hook on INT13, in-
cluding virusses (no joke).

An example of how 95 uses the autoexec.bat etc. can be experienced
if you have a box with a primary DOS partition (C:) with DOS and
3.11, a extended with 95 (D:) and OS/2, a FreeBSD partition (or
slice, in BSD terms) and the OS/2 boot manager. Try telling 95
that it should boot from D:. Ha!

> I much prefer the probe
> messages on my BSD box, at least I have a fighting chance of knowing
> EXACTLY whats wrong if something fails at boot time.

Well, yes, but since I boot my system more often than that I mess
it up, I think the splash screen is a neat idea.

- Peter
-- 
Peter Korsten  |  peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl (UUCP)  |  peterk@IAEhv.nl
C/C++/Perl/Java hacker

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 17:31:57 1997
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From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Message-Id: <199702190132.RAA00792@lightside.com>
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, toneil@visigenic.com
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
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Tim O'Neil writes:

> >I installed on a standard clone, no special cards, etc.  Solaris was by
> >far the easiest, well, maybe the disk partitioning is a bit confusing.
> 
> I have to agree, installing solaris is like a hand-held tour through
> a park.

My favorite aspect of Solaris installation is that you can interactively 
choose EXACTLY which packages you want to install, whereas FreeBSD offers 
only a limited amount of granularity.  It's also nice that you can script 
this (with JumpStart) for setting up a lab of machines.  The best aspect of 
FreeBSD installation is that it offers to set up a lot of things afterwards 
(adding users, setting up NFS, Apache, SAMBA, etc.), whereas you have to 
manually hunt down and install most of that software for Solaris (unless 
you've bought a Netra, which is preconfigured).

> >If I was a user, I'd also like the Solaris boot the best, too.
> 
> This I don't see. As soon as its installed and ready to go, it looks
> like any other posix compliant os. Just as cryptic (so to speak) as
> any other. BSD, Solaris, AIX, HPUX, they all look the same to me at
> the console.

Maybe he means the CDE login screen, which is clearly better than anything 
I've seen on FreeBSD (XDM doesn't even come close!).

> >A lot of people here will disagree with me, perhaps, but when I look at
> >the bootup screen for Solaris2, I see a finish built for users who don't
> >know or care about hardware details etc (makes FreeBSD and others look
> 
> Your right, I think a lot of people will disagree. I don't see much
> difference here either. My sun box probes scsi ports and whatnot just
> the same as my bsd box at boot time.

Yes, he's definitely talking about the CDE bootup screen (which isn't 
installed by default in Solaris 2.5.x, but will probably be the default for 
Solaris 2.6).

-- Jake

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 18:12:14 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:10:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Jamie Bowden <jamie@inna.net>
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: terry@lambert.org, toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
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On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > It's still just dos/windoze.
> 
> It's mostly DOS/Windows.  A lot of it isn't, particularly the VM and
> the scheduler code.

Which you only get if you start the gui.  You're still in dos, new and 
improved?  maybe :-/, but still 16 bit operating environment.

Jamie Bowden

Network Administrator, TBI Ltd.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 18:24:42 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:20:53 -0700 (MST)
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From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Cc: jamie@inna.net (Jamie Bowden), toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu,
        hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
In-Reply-To: <199702190031.RAA12085@phaeton.artisoft.com>
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Terry Lambert writes:
> > You're wrong Terry.  The win31 -> win95 upgrade copies your autoexec and 
> > config files to .dos, and rems some of the old drivers (like msdex) out, 
> > but overall it will use the 16bit dos drivers happily.
> 
> Not according to King and Schulman...

Terry, watch me, and repeat this on your keyboard.

'I was wrong, you are correct.'

Don't trust to justify yourself and change the subject.  It only makes
you look silly and petty.  Admit you are wrong.

I looked through the databases and couldn't find any articles where you
admitted you were wrong, so I want to see it once.


Nate

ps. I also know you are wrong because the same thing happened when I
upgraded to Win95 on my box.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 18:26:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:25:51 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: "Maxim A. Bolotin" <max@rnd.runnet.ru>, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Internet class in RSU.
In-Reply-To: <199702181747.KAA11344@phaeton.artisoft.com>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > We'll have internet class granted by J.Sorros. IBM's main company that
> > provide us computers and other equip. We want istall there FreeBSD.
> > There are 46 computers IBM PC model 320 (or something). I know that there
> > will be EtherJet network card from IBM. Will it work with FreeBSD?
> > If Not, Where can I find people that can help me make it.
> 
> Most likely you will be running AIX on these machines.  They are not
> Intel processor based.

No, there are PC's.  I setup one up that came with 3COM EISA cards
last year.  I think it has a Neptune based motherboard.

Regards,



Mike Hancock


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 19:01:19 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:05:00 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
cc: gnat@frii.com
Subject: Core dumps in suid processes (again)
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This was on BUGTRAQ.  Given that from recent discussions FreeBSD only knows
its current e/r uids, rather than that is has been suid,  I'm not sure of 
the correct answer to the question below.

Can someone please fill in the blanks.

Danny

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:31:08 -0700 (MST)
From: gnat@frii.com
To: Daniel O'Callaghan <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD,rlogin and coredumps.

gnat@frii.com writes:

[ WTTEO: I can read encrypted password file entries after killing my screen 
session on FreeBSD 2.1.5 ]

Daniel O'Callaghan writes:
> Upgrade to 2.1.6 (preferably, wait a few days for 2.1.7)  In OS versions 
> 2.1.6 and greater suid programs will not dump core.

Will that work with screen, where the program is setuid root but runs
(and is kill -11 able) as me?  I guess I mean, does the
has-been-setuid flag keep its state even when euid==ruid?

Nat



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 19:40:43 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702190339.OAA09285@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:09:33 +1030 (CST)
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If I have a syslog.conf fragment like :

!
*.notice		/var/log/messages
!zog
*			/var/log/zog.log

And the 'zog' programs logs something at *.notice, the log message ends up
in both places.

This is a _spectacular_ pain in the ass with things like socks, which
are odiously verbose.  (And some of our own software, but I have a
brick waiting for the pleb responsible for that problem, so we can
ignore it here.)

I'd like to know what people think about a couple of possibilities :

1)  Only log stuff to the 'wildcard' file entry if it hasn't matched another
    rule already.

 or

2)  Add another meta-config entry like !, say %, which implies that
    log messages from the named program will _only_ be processed according
    to the following rule(s).

Of the two, 1) is likely to have the traditionalists unhappy but introduces
fewer platform incompatabilities.

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 19:46:53 1997
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To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, gnat@frii.com
Subject: Re: Core dumps in suid processes (again) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:05:00 +1100."
             <Pine.BSF.3.91.970219135715.8268Y-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:47:50 -0800
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>This was on BUGTRAQ.  Given that from recent discussions FreeBSD only knows
>its current e/r uids, rather than that is has been suid,  I'm not sure of 
>the correct answer to the question below.
>
>Can someone please fill in the blanks.
>
>Danny
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:31:08 -0700 (MST)
>From: gnat@frii.com
>To: Daniel O'Callaghan <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
>Subject: Re: FreeBSD,rlogin and coredumps.
>
>gnat@frii.com writes:
>
>[ WTTEO: I can read encrypted password file entries after killing my screen 
>session on FreeBSD 2.1.5 ]
>
>Daniel O'Callaghan writes:
>> Upgrade to 2.1.6 (preferably, wait a few days for 2.1.7)  In OS versions 
>> 2.1.6 and greater suid programs will not dump core.
>
>Will that work with screen, where the program is setuid root but runs
>(and is kill -11 able) as me?  I guess I mean, does the
>has-been-setuid flag keep its state even when euid==ruid?

   The answer is yes, FreeBSD remembers that it was once setuid. It
intentionally forgets after an exec, however, which clears the address
space so the sensitive data is wiped. It's been proposed that FreeBSD
should remember across the exec if uid != ruid, too, and I think this
is probably a good idea. See PR# 2757.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 20:52:08 1997
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199702190451.UAA24679@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: CVS imbicility
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Is there any reason why cvs doesn't let you examine the diff between
two revisions on the same branch with different dates, when that branch
is not the main branch??

For example, why can't you say:

  cvs diff -r SOME_BRANCH -D 'January 1, 1997 0:0' -D 'January 2, 1997 0:0' 

or maybe:

  cvs diff -r SOME_BRANCH:'January 1, 1997 0:0' -r SOME_BRANCH:'January 2, 1997 0:0' 

The second one is obviously possible because "cvs checkout -j" can do it.

This is *really* annoying.

-Archie

___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 21:13:07 1997
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To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns 
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             <199702181640.JAA11183@phaeton.artisoft.com> 
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:09:46 -0600
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>> A large proportion of the hw-specific code is required precisely for
>> initialising the state of the graphics card.  From our (XFree86's)
>> experience, this is the hard part.  The rest is relatively easy.
>
>[ ... ]
>
>> >>Have a look at /usr/src/usr.sbin/pcvt/set2061/, just to get the
>> >>feeling for _one_ (now already fairly aged) piece of hardware that
>> >>needs to be supported, the ICD2061A clock synthesizer.
>> 
>> And the exact details of programming a chip like this depends on the
>> card it is on.  The version in pcvt/set2061 only deals with S3 cards.
>
>And initialization code can be thrown away after use, so there is no
>reason not not mark the segment as "init, discardable", or if you
>need to use the code again "preload, pageable".
>
>In point of fact, if the code gets into a signle object module segment,
>there is no reason that it can't be used to replace the object module
>segment for the default video driver it is replacing, in the kernel
>image itself.  This would provide an easy way of "building" a "new"
>kernel, without needing to actaully relink anything at all.

I was just browsing through some of the linux groups and noticed that
Metrolink donated their dynamic object loading system to the XFree86
project.  Perhaps once this gets integrated, it would not be nearly
as much trouble to implement a generic graphics driver of sorts in
the kernel..

Chris

>
>
>					Regards,
>					Terry Lambert
>					terry@lambert.org
>---
>Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
>or previous employers.




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 21:19:31 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:19:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
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Well... you can chalk my machine up as another victim of the recent FreeBSD
security hole.

Just my 2 cents.
David Cross

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 21:19:38 1997
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:18:15 -0800
To: dg@root.com
From: Jason Fesler <jfesler@calweb.com>
Subject: Re: Core dumps in suid processes (again) 
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, gnat@frii.com
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At 07:47 PM 2/18/97 -0800, David Greenman wrote:
>   The answer is yes, FreeBSD remembers that it was once setuid. It
>intentionally forgets after an exec, however, which clears the address
>space so the sensitive data is wiped. It's been proposed that FreeBSD
>should remember across the exec if uid != ruid, too, and I think this
>is probably a good idea. See PR# 2757.

Thanks for your comments, David. :-)

( /me passes the caffeine-ladden carbonated liquied unit to DG )


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 21:41:25 1997
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To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Core dumps in suid processes (again) 
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, gnat@frii.com
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		<Pine.BSF.3.91.970219135715.8268Y-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> 
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:40:34 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <Pine.BSF.3.91.970219135715.8268Y-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> "Daniel O'Callaghan" writes:
: Will that work with screen, where the program is setuid root but runs
: (and is kill -11 able) as me?  I guess I mean, does the
: has-been-setuid flag keep its state even when euid==ruid?

When the uid and euid are set at any time, then a flag in the proc
structure gets set and you will no longer get a core dump.

Warner

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 21:48:06 1997
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To: Jason Fesler <jfesler@calweb.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, gnat@frii.com
Subject: Re: Core dumps in suid processes (again) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:18:15 PST."
             <3.0.1.32.19970218211815.006f4378@pop.calweb.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:49:00 -0800
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>Thanks for your comments, David. :-)
>
>( /me passes the caffeine-ladden carbonated liquied unit to DG )

   Thanks. :-) I actually answered your other question about whether we
do coredumps for setuid processes (we don't) in bugtraq two days ago.
Perhaps that reply didn't get out to people?

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 22:19:59 1997
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To: Chris Csanady <ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net>
Cc: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>,
        dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:09:46 CST."
             <199702190509.XAA08828@nyx.pr.mcs.net> 
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:50:24 +0500
From: A JOSEPH KOSHY <koshy@india.hp.com>
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>>>> "Chris Csanady" <ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net> writes

> I was just browsing through some of the linux groups and noticed that
> Metrolink donated their dynamic object loading system to the XFree86
> project.  Perhaps once this gets integrated, it would not be nearly
> as much trouble to implement a generic graphics driver of sorts in
> the kernel..

The basic idea I believe is to bring in object code at run-time into a 
running program (the X server) allowing code for X extensions etc to be 
loaded on demand.  This is a win on those platforms XFree runs on that 
don't support dynamic loading --- SVR3.2 comes to mind.

Even today FreeBSD can theoritically support LKM's that could handle different
video cards.  However, the barrier to moving initialization into the kernel 
is the sheer amount of device dependent programming that needs to be done 
per graphics card.

Perhaps if we could extract out just the device specific parts of the XFree86
initialization code and create LKMs we could be in a position to use the work
being done by the XFree86 team.  However the current code is not in a shape
that could be tweaked easily to this purpose (too many X Server dependencies)
Further the initialization code that comes with the XFree server does not
support non-graphics mode initialization.  Thus we can't acheive 
extended text modes with this approach anyway.

Koshy
<koshy@india.hp.com>			My Personal Opinions Only.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Feb 18 22:46:05 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702190645.RAA10685@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: sbwait hang?
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:15:51 +1030 (CST)
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Two BSD systems, talking via SLIP.  

FreeBSD genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Fri Nov  8 07:56:00 CST 1996     root@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENESIS  i386

FreeBSD cain.atrad.adelaide.edu.au 2.2-GAMMA FreeBSD 2.2-GAMMA #0: Wed Feb 19 08:03:18 CST 1997     msmith@cain.atrad.adelaide.edu.au:/local1/playpen/2.2/src/sys/compile/CAIN  i386

The file of death :

-rw-r--r--   1 msmith  users  5133540 Dec 11 09:12 linux_lib-2.3.tar.gz

No matter how I try to transfer this file, about 4MB (the figure
varies by a few kB) makes it, and then the transfer stops with both
ends sleeping on 'sbwait' (I've used ftp, ncftp, fetch, rcp so
far...).  The same happens with the file coming from a source further
away (on the other side of the source machine).

Once the transfer has stopped, I can dig up ftp and ask it to 'reget',
and nothing more will make it across.  I can move other stuff across
the link at the same time (so it's not modem lockup etc.).

The target machine was a 2.1-STABLE system yesterday when this
happened. The file transferred prior to this was twice as large.

The problem is absolutely consistent (and it's driving me _NUTS_).

ANY ideas?  At all? Please?

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 00:09:58 1997
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From: John Hay <jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
Message-Id: <199702190807.KAA15122@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
Subject: Re: CVS imbicility
In-Reply-To: <199702190451.UAA24679@bubba.whistle.com> from Archie Cobbs at "Feb 18, 97 08:51:23 pm"
To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:07:50 +0200 (SAT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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> 
> Is there any reason why cvs doesn't let you examine the diff between
> two revisions on the same branch with different dates, when that branch
> is not the main branch??
> 
> For example, why can't you say:
> 
>   cvs diff -r SOME_BRANCH -D 'January 1, 1997 0:0' -D 'January 2, 1997 0:0' 
> 
> or maybe:
> 
>   cvs diff -r SOME_BRANCH:'January 1, 1997 0:0' -r SOME_BRANCH:'January 2, 1997 0:0' 
> 
> The second one is obviously possible because "cvs checkout -j" can do it.
> 
> This is *really* annoying.
> 

There is another thing, try to checkout some specific date on a branch
other than head. :-) Would I love to be able to do that.

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 00:50:41 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:27:42 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: johnp@lodgenet.com (John Prince)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Serial Console
References: <Pine.NEB.3.94.970218034626.8671A-100000@misery.sdf.com> <199702182017.OAA11997@milo.lodgenet.com>
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As John Prince wrote:

> >   Are you sure?  I've just done this recently on a 2.1.6 system, and
> > /dev/console was directed to the serial console.
> 
> With out a doubt.. The problem was first noticed on 2.1.5, and 
> this morning duplicated on a 2.2-BETA_A.

It worked for me all the time.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 00:51:03 1997
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Message-ID: <Mutt.19970219095201.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:52:01 +0100
From: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
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Michael Smith (msmith) ecrit/writes:
> 
> The SVGATextmode stuff had been done for FreeBSD, and if I thought it
> was worth the effort, I'd try to help Soren get it working.  As it is,
> a $60 PCI video card gives more than enough X grunt for snazzy text modes
> to be a complete waste of time.

	Right you are.  But even though we workstation-monitor weenies may
	be on the way to extinction, in the meantime:

	a) It's nice to have 10200 (170x60) chars on the screen when you code
	   in text mode (with moused, it's even better -- see below)

	b) It's nice not to have the monitor re-sync (2 seconds on some
	   stupid so-called 17" multi-sync that should have never come
	   off the design board)

	Referring to a), BTW -- since snazzy text modes are such a waste of
	time, how come Søren went to the pains of implementing moused ?

	Don't tell me it's just to plant a flag and say, "There, we have
	GPM like the Linuxites".  Otherwise he'd have imported GPM, no... ?

	Oh well, I guess I'll go back to Screen and hjkl copy/paste.


	Sorry for the hard tone, and yes I did read your following message
	regarding Julian's work -- and yes, I should just STFU and put my
	head down to a better design.

-- 
							-- Phil

-[ Philippe Regnauld   /   Systems Administrator   /    regnauld@prosa.dk ]-
-[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E       PGP Key: finger regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 00:53:37 1997
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Message-ID: <Mutt.19970219095327.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:53:27 +0100
From: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
To: pb@fasterix.freenix.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
References: <199702180500.VAA00752@lightside.com> <19970218214241.GQ48138@@>
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Pierre Beyssac (pb) ecrit/writes:
> 
> Actually, I've recently been told that the Sun framebuffer _has_
> a much faster built-in text mode and it is used by Linux/SPARC.
> I haven't seen it myself (I'm not sure if it's a real text mode,
> maybe they just reimplemented bitmap characters in C).

	I don't know about Sparcs, but you could get a small program in C for
	old 3 and 3x (sconsole ?) that would speed up by a factor of 2-5
	the console.

-- 
							-- Phil

-[ Philippe Regnauld   /   Systems Administrator   /    regnauld@prosa.dk ]-
-[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E       PGP Key: finger regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 01:02:56 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702190902.TAA11479@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970219095201.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk> from Philippe Regnauld at "Feb 19, 97 09:52:01 am"
To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:32:37 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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Philippe Regnauld stands accused of saying:
> Michael Smith (msmith) ecrit/writes:
> > 
> > The SVGATextmode stuff had been done for FreeBSD, and if I thought it
> > was worth the effort, I'd try to help Soren get it working.  As it is,
> > a $60 PCI video card gives more than enough X grunt for snazzy text modes
> > to be a complete waste of time.
> 
> 	Right you are.  But even though we workstation-monitor weenies may
> 	be on the way to extinction, in the meantime:
> 
> 	a) It's nice to have 10200 (170x60) chars on the screen when you code
> 	   in text mode (with moused, it's even better -- see below)

I have a window open at the moment that's 250x135.  I can still read
the clock at the bottom of the screen telling me it's time to go home
and eat.

> 	b) It's nice not to have the monitor re-sync (2 seconds on some
> 	   stupid so-called 17" multi-sync that should have never come
> 	   off the design board)

Huh?  Who has their monitor resyncing?

> 	Referring to a), BTW -- since snazzy text modes are such a waste of
> 	time, how come Søren went to the pains of implementing moused ?

He didn't.  I did. 8)  He wrote the console cursor stuff as an exercise
in sheer masochism.  8)  (TBH, I made a real mess of moused and other 
people have been responsible for making it work properly.)

> 	Don't tell me it's just to plant a flag and say, "There, we have
> 	GPM like the Linuxites".  Otherwise he'd have imported GPM, no... ?

No, GPM couldn't be imported; it's Linux-console-specific.  And it _was_
to shut up the ex-Linux GPM fanatics that moused was written.  So there 8)

> 	Sorry for the hard tone, and yes I did read your following message
> 	regarding Julian's work -- and yes, I should just STFU and put my
> 	head down to a better design.

*shrug*  Even just a little work to fix what's actually wrong with the
current design would be great 8)  Just take some time to work out
what really needs to be done, rather than jumping whatever the current
trend claims is The Right Thing.  Not so easy I guess.

> -[ Philippe Regnauld   /   Systems Administrator   /    regnauld@prosa.dk ]-

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 01:20:15 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:21:14 +0100
From: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
References: <Mutt.19970219095201.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk> <199702190902.TAA11479@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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Michael Smith (msmith) ecrit/writes:
> 
> I have a window open at the moment that's 250x135.  I can still read
> the clock at the bottom of the screen telling me it's time to go home
> and eat.

	See ?  The clock's a major inconvenience ! :)

> Huh?  Who has their monitor resyncing?

	Err, mine.  I got this 17" brand called KFC (No joke!), albeit
	with a trinitron tube (though that doesn't mean much nowadays).

	2 sec wait (clunk! 2sec... new mode).

> He didn't.  I did. 8)  

	Woops.

> No, GPM couldn't be imported; it's Linux-console-specific.  And it _was_
> to shut up the ex-Linux GPM fanatics that moused was written.  So there 8)

	At clear-stated purpose  :-)

> *shrug*  Even just a little work to fix what's actually wrong with the
> current design would be great 8)  Just take some time to work out
> what really needs to be done, rather than jumping whatever the current
> trend claims is The Right Thing.  Not so easy I guess.

	I _have_ thought before jumping on this, _with_ my ever-present technical
	ignorance, knowing that the concept of using SVGATextMode was considered
	bad, etc...  Just thought there was some good work done, and it was worth
	considering.

-- 
							-- Phil

-[ Philippe Regnauld   /   Systems Administrator   /    regnauld@prosa.dk ]-
-[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E       PGP Key: finger regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 01:38:28 1997
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To: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: another victim... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:19:44 EST."
             <199702190519.AAA27289@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> 
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:38:21 -0800
Message-ID: <9025.856345101@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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Running what version of FreeBSD?  Did you close the holes as mentioned
in the advisories, or were you complacent until it was too late? :-)

						Jordan

> Well... you can chalk my machine up as another victim of the recent FreeBSD
> security hole.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> David Cross


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 02:03:58 1997
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To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:52:01 +0100."
             <Mutt.19970219095201.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk> 
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 02:03:32 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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>From The Desk Of Philippe Regnauld :
> Michael Smith (msmith) ecrit/writes:
> > 
> > The SVGATextmode stuff had been done for FreeBSD, and if I thought it
> > was worth the effort, I'd try to help Soren get it working.  As it is,
> > a $60 PCI video card gives more than enough X grunt for snazzy text modes
> > to be a complete waste of time.
> 
> 	Right you are.  But even though we workstation-monitor weenies may
> 	be on the way to extinction, in the meantime:
> 
> 	a) It's nice to have 10200 (170x60) chars on the screen when you code
> 	   in text mode (with moused, it's even better -- see below)

Huh, I think is nice to have 6 virtual screens at 1020x768 all accesible
by either clicking on a pane or just scrolling the mouse.

The console stuff is great but I got tell you  I hardly ever use it I just
boot the system and go straight to X. In fact now days , I just run X
in 32bit mode.

	Cheers,
	Amancio




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 02:26:39 1997
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To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature? 
In-reply-to: <199702190339.OAA09285@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> 
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:25:37 +1100
From: Giles Lean <giles@nemeton.com.au>
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:09:33 +1030 (CST)  Michael Smith wrote:

> 1)  Only log stuff to the 'wildcard' file entry if it hasn't matched another
>     rule already.
> 
>  or
> 
> 2)  Add another meta-config entry like !, say %, which implies that

I've seen (2) done somewhere, sometime.  Probably on a security
related site but my brain is not working too well right now and won't
cough up the location.  (If you've a cool change there in Adelaide,
please SEND IT ON!)

I prefer (2) since it is obviously different when looking at
syslog.conf.

Rather than patch syslogd I usually solve the problem by logging most
everything and only looking at stuff that swatch picks out for me.
I've a cleaned up re-written swatch that I use for this that is
careful about reaping zombies:

	http://www.nemeton.com.au/software.html

The 'logsurfer' program from the German (?) CERT team looks a better
bet still; it can handle multiline messages and "remember" what is
happening.

For logsurfer go and search at:

        http://www.cert.dfn.de/

(I can't find a URL less than three lines long to cut and paste ... grr.)

Regards,

Giles

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 02:34:47 1997
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From: Søren Schmidt <sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Message-Id: <199702191034.LAA09053@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <199702190035.RAA12107@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 18, 97 05:35:54 pm"
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:34:52 +0100 (MET)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, hm@kts.org,
        ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de,
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In reply to Terry Lambert who wrote:
> 
> Look at the "Linux GGI" code (run a search on AltaVista for it, or
> look for "Generic Graphic Interface" in the Linux groups on DejaNews).
> It is *exactly* the "super console" design that never got done in
> the BSD camps after it was first discussed in fall of 1993.

I've looked at it, and I'm not that impressed. It tires to solve the
problems we all know and love, but its still VERY green.
Its like the svgalib, its starts out as a good idea, but fall short
in getting enough support for all the different chipsets. It
seems they only have very rudimentary support yet, they havn't
gotten all of XFree86 in there yet...

Even XFree86 has now the problem that it "only" supports so many
chipsets, and I (and lots of others) has found it nessesary to
go BUY (yuck!) a Xserver to cope with ones wierd videohardware.

I think we are better of letting the Xserver vendors have the
"good times" doing the chiplevel support (hey then they can live
too!), and let the rest of us just use X, and then spend the
huge amounts of time we save on other businesses.

Oh, yes and the GGI people has allready written off all the *BSD's
by cribbeling the code with GNU's copytheft...
(XFree86 Inc can now find lots of their code GNUinfected :) :) )

Besides this I still think we could need a simple system that will
run on std VGA/EGA/CGA/HGA, and provide a simple graphics interface
for sysadm utils and the like, but being REAL small on resource
usage (yes I have been working on this for a looooong time, and
have most of whats needed, just no real use for it yet).
This can be done with the support we allready have, including
switching vtys etc etc....

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 02:50:19 1997
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Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <199702190902.TAA11479@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Feb 19, 97 07:32:37 pm"
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:51:45 +0100 (MET)
Cc: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au,
        freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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In reply to Michael Smith who wrote:
> > 	Referring to a), BTW -- since snazzy text modes are such a waste of
> > 	time, how come Søren went to the pains of implementing moused ?
> 
> He didn't.  I did. 8)  He wrote the console cursor stuff as an exercise
> in sheer masochism.  8)  (TBH, I made a real mess of moused and other 
> people have been responsible for making it work properly.)
> 
> > 	Don't tell me it's just to plant a flag and say, "There, we have
> > 	GPM like the Linuxites".  Otherwise he'd have imported GPM, no... ?
> 
> No, GPM couldn't be imported; it's Linux-console-specific.  And it _was_
> to shut up the ex-Linux GPM fanatics that moused was written.  So there 8)
> 
> > 	Sorry for the hard tone, and yes I did read your following message
> > 	regarding Julian's work -- and yes, I should just STFU and put my
> > 	head down to a better design.
> 
> *shrug*  Even just a little work to fix what's actually wrong with the
> current design would be great 8)  Just take some time to work out
> what really needs to be done, rather than jumping whatever the current
> trend claims is The Right Thing.  Not so easy I guess.

I have depicted a solution that will work with our current model, and
even done most of whats needed in syscons, but there has never been
anybody that would take on the work to do it, just a bunch of quickhacks 
that will haunt us for the rest of our lives.

See the problem is that if we do this, we MUST support it for all
eventual HW, not just Joe Random Hackers $10 crappy SVGA card, and
thats where the fun stops.

So instead of implementing some 10% solution, and get a support job
from hell trying to explain why VideoCardOfTheDay isn't supported, and 
why we havn't the resources/information to do it, I'd much rather let the
X guys have that fun, and spend our valuable time on something else.
(good knows we have enough more pressing things to attend to)


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 02:51:22 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:55:33 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Giles Lean <giles@nemeton.com.au>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature? 
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Giles Lean wrote:

> cough up the location.  (If you've a cool change there in Adelaide,
> please SEND IT ON!)

40 in Adelaide tomorrow, just like Melbourne :-(  Blech!

Danny

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 03:22:06 1997
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199702191030.LAA09311@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: if_de bug found!
To: matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:30:42 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dg@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970215162211.0068f3e0@netrix.lkg.dec.com> from "Matt Thomas" at Feb 15, 97 04:28:37 pm
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After long and painful debugging I found the bug with the 21140A driver
(if_de.c) from netbsd. The driver has a workaround for a bug of the
21140A when buffers overflow, and stops the receiver and resets the
board when this occurs. This is done in the driver (around line 3230)
by reading from CSR8 into "misses".

Matt said this is an 'extremely rare' event, on my board, though, it
turned out to happen at the end of every interrupt... A look at
the 21140A reference manuals (on line on the DEC site) shows that the 3
high bits of CSR8 are set, so that they should be ignored. After doing
this, the driver works like a charm.

Probably the correct fix is to trigger the workaround only when b16 of
CSR8 is set. Matt ?

Thanks to Matt for writing the driver and suggesting that the event is
rare, and to DEC for making the hardware manuals available on line.

I'll submit a PR shortly. This might be a 2.2 candidate, if the if_de
driver in 2.2 has the same workaround. David, can you check ?

	Thanks
	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 03:23:53 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702191123.VAA11798@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
In-Reply-To: <199702191025.VAA19543@nemeton.com.au> from Giles Lean at "Feb 19, 97 09:25:37 pm"
To: giles@nemeton.com.au (Giles Lean)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:53:39 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org
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Giles Lean stands accused of saying:
> > 
> > 2)  Add another meta-config entry like !, say %, which implies that
> 
> I've seen (2) done somewhere, sometime.  Probably on a security
> related site but my brain is not working too well right now and won't
> cough up the location.  (If you've a cool change there in Adelaide,
> please SEND IT ON!)
> 

Sorry, our weather station said 45C air temperature outside today.
We're sending it back to the people that lent it to us with a note
saying that it makes the suburb too hot 8)

> I prefer (2) since it is obviously different when looking at
> syslog.conf.

Ok.

> Rather than patch syslogd I usually solve the problem by logging most
> everything and only looking at stuff that swatch picks out for me.

I just want to shut Socks5 up; you should see it go with a network
full of Netscape machines hitting it for their mail 8( (And the office
memo that told everyone to set their mail check delay right down so
that people wouldn't be late for urgent meetings.  *snort*)

"a logfile" is good; I can watch it if I need to debug the proxy.  But
I want the system log on this machine to be realtively long-lived;
newsyslog or no, I'm going to be looking for more space on the root
filesystem to store my heavily-gzipped Socks-powered datastamps 8(

There's another ripper with socks; 

       SOCKS5_LOG_SYSLOG
              Sends debugging output  to  syslog.   This  is  the
              default  ...

This is an environment variable that you can set, or a config option. 8)

> Giles

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 03:46:01 1997
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	(1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA29437; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:37:49 +0100
From: dario@escher.usr.dsi.unimi.it (Dario Maggiorini)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:37:49 +0100
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Hi hackers.

I'm building a circuit ( ttl logic ) that has to send data to my freebsd PC,

I'm not planning to use parallel rather than serial cause there connectivity
promens and parallel is just ttl compatible.

Using msdos you can just refer to the memory mapped device address and read
from that location.
With this environment i planned to use the /dev/lpt0 device.

But the driver has _not_ read cabability.

I have just to test the status of the pin on the parallel interface.

has anyone of you already 

1 - modified the parallel driver
2 - a pointer to some kind of documentation
3 - write asm code to access directly the memory location 
	( i believe it's possible but can't write it by myself, i'm in a hurry
	and has no time to learn asm details )

thanks to anyone for the help.

Dario


      o o o o o o o . . .   _________________________________ _____=======_T___
    o      _____           ||Dario Maggiorini               | |               |
  .][__n_n_|DD[  ====|____  |dario@dsi.unimi.it             | |               |
 >(________|__|_[___/_____]_|University of Milano___________|_|_______________|_
 _/oo OOOOOO o`  ooo   ooo  'o^o^o                     o^o^o` 'o^o         o^o`
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    Magic is the essence and the soul of life, and the magician is her poet.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 04:42:31 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:41:06 +0300 (MSK)
From: "Maxim A. Bolotin" <max@rnd.runnet.ru>
To: Stefan Esser <se@freebsd.org>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Acer ALTOS 7000 instalation problem.
In-Reply-To: <19970218205749.IK34225@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Stefan Esser wrote:

> On Feb 18, max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin) wrote:
> > On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Stefan Esser wrote:
> > > 1) Chip set (vendor and type)
> > Acer ALTOS 7000, Acer BIOS V1.2R1.0, 1993,
> > 7 EISA slots, AIC 7770, twin channel.
> 
> Hmmm, I still have no idea what the chip-set might be ...
I nave big chip on board OPTi 82C696, also I have daughter board with
Two Pentium sockets (one installed), and additional 4 simm, there are
some additional chips OPTi 82C693.

> Could you please apply the following patch, build
> a kernel with pci0, boot with "-v", and send me 
> the boot messages ?
> 
OK, I'll try this patch today evening. I can't do it now 'cause it's
one of ours main servers. :-)
		Regards,
			Max.
-
Rostov State University   Computer Center
Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476
Russia, RUNNet               max@run.net.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 04:54:39 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:51:25 +0300 (MSK)
From: "Maxim A. Bolotin" <max@rnd.runnet.ru>
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Internet class in RSU.
In-Reply-To: <199702181747.KAA11344@phaeton.artisoft.com>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > We'll have internet class granted by J.Sorros. IBM's main company that
> > provide us computers and other equip. We want istall there FreeBSD.
> > There are 46 computers IBM PC model 320 (or something). I know that there
> > will be EtherJet network card from IBM. Will it work with FreeBSD?
> > If Not, Where can I find people that can help me make it.
> 
> Most likely you will be running AIX on these machines.  They are not
> Intel processor based.
NO, It's PC. There're Pentium 133, 16Mb, HDD 850Mb, and MAIN thing I
care about Is EtherJet ethernet card, will it work with FreeBSD?
IBM insist to install OS/2 merlin, but We want UNIX! You understand me,
I'll have to do it work every day, If It'll be OS/2 (or Win95) It'll
be nightmare!

> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org
> ---
> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
> or previous employers.
> 

			Max.
-
Rostov State University   Computer Center
Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476
Russia, RUNNet               max@run.net.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 05:20:46 1997
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From: Thomas David Rivers <ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Message-Id: <199702191314.IAA27926@lakes.water.net>
To: ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers
Subject: another dup alloc panic.
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Just F.Y.I. - my news server (a 386-dx; 8meg, IDE) machine has
now re-entered the daily dup-alloc panic...

Given the information I was able to discern from my test machine
(a 386-dx; 8meg SCSI (aha1542B)) - after yesterday's panic, I had
simply cleared the offending inode (inode #270680, in this case).
Thinking that it had not been newfs'd properly and contained
trash.

This morning's panic was inode #177593.  (Certainly doesn't
seem to be one that would fall on any inodes/group boundary)
I'll clear that one and hope for the best.

However, when I did the fsck on that file system; two files were
associated with that inode - so, it probably was, in fact, already
allocated...  Maybe the allocation structure is sorta messed up and
it's picking up random bits somewhere...  I'm beginning to believe
some randomness (along the lines of an uninitilized variable) is
part of the problem here...

	- Dave Rivers -



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 05:58:02 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:22:39 +0000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------69D23902C26
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(Damn, finger trouble)

--------------69D23902C26
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--==11210975800009==
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This mail message has been delivered to the default mailbox.
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The text of the message follows:
 

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Message-ID: <330AE225.77E7@wgold.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:21:09 +0000
From: James Mansion <james@wgold.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Westongold Ltd
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I'm trying to build a transactional data manager.

Assume that I'm using a raw device and I set it up so that
I flush through the caches.  (Yeah, this is imprecise, but
the precise details are not important, and besides are
different for some platforms)

My question (admitedly not totally BSD related):

 - if the OS tells me it has a successful write through the
   disk device, can I rely on:

   a) the data is on the platter
   b) the data is in the drives buffer and may be on the
      platter

 - if the system crashes during the write (literally, while
   the drive is writing to the platter) can I:

   a) rely on a sector being there, or not (I doubt this on most
      hardware)
   b) rely on the data that was not yet written (perhaps a part-
      sector) being uncorrupted?

My plan is to flush everyting out, then perform a second write
in which just one bit is changed - and I'm hoping that this single
change will be atomic.

Anyone got any insights?

James

--==11210975800009==--

--------------69D23902C26--


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 06:22:18 1997
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From: Andre Albsmeier <Andre.Albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>
Message-Id: <199702191421.PAA07927@server.us.tld>
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
In-Reply-To: <199702190339.OAA09285@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Feb 19, 97 02:09:33 pm"
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:21:38 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> 
> If I have a syslog.conf fragment like :
> 
> !
> *.notice		/var/log/messages
> !zog
> *			/var/log/zog.log
> 
> And the 'zog' programs logs something at *.notice, the log message ends up
> in both places.
> 
> This is a _spectacular_ pain in the ass with things like socks, which
> are odiously verbose.  (And some of our own software, but I have a
> brick waiting for the pleb responsible for that problem, so we can
> ignore it here.)
> 
> I'd like to know what people think about a couple of possibilities :
> 
> 1)  Only log stuff to the 'wildcard' file entry if it hasn't matched another
>     rule already.
> 
>  or
> 
> 2)  Add another meta-config entry like !, say %, which implies that
>     log messages from the named program will _only_ be processed according
>     to the following rule(s).
> 
> Of the two, 1) is likely to have the traditionalists unhappy but introduces
> fewer platform incompatabilities.

I am very happy with the IRIX 5.3 syslog. It supports the syntax

*.debug;kern.none;user.none     |/var/syslog/log-filter         /var/syslog/all

which pipes all messages through /var/syslog/log-filter and this script
decides what to do with them. So I get my squid, socks, slip, etc. logs
all in different files and can for example ignore some messages with
the same level and priority depending on the process that sends them.

This is the only reason why I still have my old SGI 4D25 running on my
networks... as loghost.

This would also be an option which IMHO allows most flexiblity and is
compatible to the old syslog.conf file because the | defines the 
presence of a filter.

	-Andre

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 06:41:51 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:39:02 +1100
From: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: "connection refused"
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I'm currently working on a network server that needs to use local
creditials on a remote connection, and if that fails, to issue a
"connection refused".

Now, my understanding of how accept() works, and what the manpages say,
I should be able to use sendto() and/or sendmsg() on a socket to
achieve this. I've searched the source tree for an example, and I've
looked through a fair amount of other source as well, but I'm still not
sure how this would be done. Unfortunately, my experience in network
programming is mainly with plain tcp clients, and I've never had to do
anything like this before.

Does anyone have either some small code snippet or a pointer to some
code which does something similar? FWIW, I'm using tcp rather than udp
for simplicity, although that may change at a later date.

Regards,

David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
Voice +61-3-9791-9547  Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507  3:632/348@fidonet
davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 07:12:05 1997
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From: Noah Chanin <chanino@earlham.edu>
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I have been thinking about filesystems lately as I have been
setting up my FBSD box and some Ultrix boxes.  
I am wondering about effecient ways to cut the slices.
For example, is it better to make swap space some factor
of the page size (what is the page size in FreeBSD, is it
changeable?)
How much swap space should go on a machine?  I've heard
that 3xRAM size is good for X and 2X is good for consoles.
Are there any more rules of thumb?  Is there a list of 
rules of thumb somewhere?  Where can I learn more about the
FS?  Should mountable slices be a factor of the block size?
How much var is enough var?  How much MFS?  
I hope that this is an appropriate list to be asking these
questions.  
I am also interested in doing file system development at least
experimentally for myself?
Are their any pointers that those more experienced than myself
know of?

Thanks very much,
Following this list for a while has been a very eductional
experience for me?  

+++
Noah Chanin	chanino@earlham.edu
Earlham College Microcomputer Repair Specialist
+++

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 08:49:08 1997
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To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
Cc: pb@fasterix.freenix.fr (Pierre Beyssac), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns 
Reply-To: Jason Thorpe <thorpej@nas.nasa.gov>
From: Jason Thorpe <thorpej@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:41:49 -0800
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:53:27 +0100 
 regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld) wrote:

 > 	I don't know about Sparcs, but you could get a small program in C for
 > 	old 3 and 3x (sconsole ?) that would speed up by a factor of 2-5
 > 	the console.

Hmmm.... I vaguely recall a program that would read the ROM contents out
of ROM, place them into RAM, and change the PROM's mappings to make the RAM
appear at the ROM's address... fetching instructions from faster storage
would certainly make a difference :-)

Jason R. Thorpe                                       thorpej@nas.nasa.gov
NASA Ames Research Center                               Home: 408.866.1912
NAS: M/S 258-6                                          Work: 415.604.0935
Moffett Field, CA 94035                                Pager: 415.428.6939

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 08:50:48 1997
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From: spork <spork@super-g.com>
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To: Joerg Wunsch <joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de>
cc: John Prince <johnp@lodgenet.com>, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Serial Console
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Is there a way to have both the traditional and serial console
simultaneously?

Charles

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, J Wunsch wrote:

> As John Prince wrote:
> 
> > >   Are you sure?  I've just done this recently on a 2.1.6 system, and
> > > /dev/console was directed to the serial console.
> > 
> > With out a doubt.. The problem was first noticed on 2.1.5, and 
> > this morning duplicated on a 2.2-BETA_A.
> 
> It worked for me all the time.
> 
> -- 
> cheers, J"org
> 
> joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
> Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 09:38:54 1997
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To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Path: not-for-mail
From: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra)
Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers
Subject: Re: Just CVS (was Re: CVS question, sendmail, named)
Date: 19 Feb 1997 09:38:45 -0800
Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA
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> You need the CVS repository, e.g. you need to use CVSUP but your tag
> value, if any, should be `.' and your release name should be cvs.

No, if you want to get the CVS repository with CVSup, you must not
specify a tag or date.

John
-- 
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 09:45:09 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:45:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
Message-Id: <199702191745.MAA00748@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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> Running what version of FreeBSD?  Did you close the holes as mentioned
> in the advisories, or were you complacent until it was too late? :-)

I am running 2.1.6-RELEASE.  The closing the holes was a combination of
complacentcy, and the fact that to fix these holes you practically have to
rebuild your entire system (it is the crt0.o/setlocale() hole).

BTW: what is the expected release date of 2.2 and 2.1.7?

David Cross

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 10:09:08 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:08:49 +0000 ()
From: Jason Andresen <jandrese@vt.edu>
X-Sender: jandrese@jandrese.async.vt.edu
To: "Maxim A. Bolotin" <max@rnd.runnet.ru>
cc: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Internet class in RSU.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970219154716.7545C-100000@altos.rnd.runnet.ru>
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Maxim A. Bolotin wrote:

=)On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:
=)
=)> > We'll have internet class granted by J.Sorros. IBM's main company that
=)> > provide us computers and other equip. We want istall there FreeBSD.
=)> > There are 46 computers IBM PC model 320 (or something). I know that there
=)> > will be EtherJet network card from IBM. Will it work with FreeBSD?
=)> > If Not, Where can I find people that can help me make it.
=)> 
=)> Most likely you will be running AIX on these machines.  They are not
=)> Intel processor based.
=)NO, It's PC. There're Pentium 133, 16Mb, HDD 850Mb, and MAIN thing I
=)care about Is EtherJet ethernet card, will it work with FreeBSD?
=)IBM insist to install OS/2 merlin, but We want UNIX! You understand me,
=)I'll have to do it work every day, If It'll be OS/2 (or Win95) It'll
=)be nightmare!
=)
I have had no problems running FreeBSD on my IBM 350 machine, which is
very similar to the 320, however I haven't had any experiance with those
particular Ethernet cards.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::. .   .   .   .   ..::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::     Jason Andresen      :. . . . . . . . . : Web and FTP server at    ::
::     jandrese@vt.edu     :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:: jandrese.async.vt.edu    ::
 :.........................: Quote of the day :..........................:
Help stamp out and abolish redundancy.
:::::::::::.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.........................:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:::::::::::


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 10:31:03 1997
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From: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
Message-Id: <199702191830.MAA05788@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Re: another victim...
To: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 12:30:49 CST
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702191745.MAA00748@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> from "David E. Cross" at Feb 19, 97 12:45:31 pm
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> > Running what version of FreeBSD?  Did you close the holes as mentioned
> > in the advisories, or were you complacent until it was too late? :-)
> 
> I am running 2.1.6-RELEASE.  The closing the holes was a combination of
> complacentcy, and the fact that to fix these holes you practically have to
> rebuild your entire system (it is the crt0.o/setlocale() hole).

Yes, that is the sucky thing about that particular problem.  :-(  OTOH, it
is not entirely unthinkable.  I would much rather have such a problem with
FreeBSD than with SunOS.  :-)

> BTW: what is the expected release date of 2.2 and 2.1.7?

2.1.7 should be "just around the corner".

... Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Greco - Systems Administrator			      jgreco@ns.sol.net
Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI			   414/342-4847

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 11:23:31 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:14:21 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: wosch@campa.panke.de.cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfram Schneider)
Cc: freebsd-ports@freefall.freebsd.org,
        freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers)
Subject: Re: ports/2756: top causes segmentation fault
References: <199702180900.BAA14810@freefall.freebsd.org> <p1ivi7pvb5b.fsf@campa.panke.de>
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As Wolfram Schneider wrote:

> >  Recompile top.  top is very system-dependant, and since you're running
> >  a SNAP, your first aid should be recompilation.
> >  
> >  top should probably live in the base system, not in ports.  I've
> >  already removed /usr/local/bin/top on my machines at work since
> >  /usr/local is shared, but top is by no means sharable at all.
> 
> Yes, we should import top(1) into the base system (src/contrib/top).
> The top sources are only 120KB. 

Are there any contradictionary opinions?  Even Suns ship with top(1)
by default, and given its deep internal knowledge of the kernel
structures, the ports version is pretty useless for a machine that is
tracking -current (or even one that is upgraded by the official
releases when forgetting to always upgrade to the most recent version
of top as well).

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 11:41:40 1997
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From: Søren Schmidt <sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Message-Id: <199702191943.UAA00349@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Anybody have an Exabyte EXB8200 drive ??
To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:43:09 +0100 (MET)
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And willing to let me at a copy of the two EPROM's inside ??
I need genuine Exebyte firmware for an OEM drive that needs
to be "normalized"...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 11:44:22 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:44:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
Message-Id: <199702191944.OAA00769@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
To: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, jgreco@solaria.sol.net
Subject: Re: another victim...
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Hmm... 2.1.7 would be nice, but I would hate to go to 2.1.7 only to have
2.2 come out a week later.  Any ideas when 2.2 is scheduled to be out.  The
gamma releases seem to be progressing quite rapidly, and I have not heard any
real problems about the gammas here.

Just Curious,
David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 11:52:25 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:24:08 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Serial Console
References: <Mutt.19970219092742.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> <Pine.BSF.3.95.970219115457.21939A-100000@super-g.inch.com>
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As spork wrote:

> Is there a way to have both the traditional and serial console
> simultaneously?

No, you can have at most one console device at a time.  Note that
/dev/console is a logical device, not a phyiscal one.  It's very
common to redirect it to something else than /dev/ttyv0 or /dev/ttyd0.
See the console output on /dev/ttyv1 when sysinstall is running as
init, or xconsole.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 12:01:53 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:43:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Busarow <dan@dpcsys.com>
To: spork <spork@super-g.com>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Serial Console
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970219115457.21939A-100000@super-g.inch.com>
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, spork wrote:
> Is there a way to have both the traditional and serial console
> simultaneously?

Not exactly simultaneous, but you can use boot: -h to toggle
between sc and serial consoles.

Dan
-- 
 Dan Busarow                                                  714 443 4172
 DPC Systems / Beach.Net                                    dan@dpcsys.com
 Dana Point, California  83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4   8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 12:10:28 1997
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To: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Re: another victim... 
Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:30:49 CST."
		<199702191830.MAA05788@solaria.sol.net> 
References: <199702191830.MAA05788@solaria.sol.net>  
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:07:48 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <199702191830.MAA05788@solaria.sol.net> Joe Greco writes:
: > BTW: what is the expected release date of 2.2 and 2.1.7?
: 
: 2.1.7 should be "just around the corner".

2.1.7 was striped two nights ago, and Jordan has been saying that
changes in the 2_1_0 branch will not be in 2.1.7 since last night
sometime.  This usually indicates that the release is going to happen
real real real soon.

Warner

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 12:49:23 1997
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From: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
Message-Id: <199702192049.OAA06935@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Re: another victim...
To: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 14:49:06 CST
Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702191944.OAA00769@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> from "David E. Cross" at Feb 19, 97 02:44:07 pm
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> Hmm... 2.1.7 would be nice, but I would hate to go to 2.1.7 only to have
> 2.2 come out a week later.  Any ideas when 2.2 is scheduled to be out.  The
> gamma releases seem to be progressing quite rapidly, and I have not heard any
> real problems about the gammas here.

My opinion (and only my opinion):

As a person whose work revolves around UNIX server platforms, I would never
choose to put all of my faith in a relatively untested platform.

2.2 has not had enough real world exposure to shake out all of the real bugs
and problems that may exist.  That is not to say that I am not running it; I
most certainly AM!  But I am only running it on machines that are either
non-critical (i.e. my personal workstations, etc) or machines that are
redundantly backed up by other proven platforms (i.e. 2.1.X).

On the other hand, 2.1.X has been proven by time and fire to be a STABLE
and RELIABLE OS.  My Web server is setting site uptime records:

 2:39PM  up 195 days, 23:22, 1 user, load averages: 0.21, 0.18, 0.15

For a server class platform, one really doesn't _need_ many/most of the
enhancements made in 2.2, and so it would be better to go with a known
stable platform for any critical applications.

In the meantime, there are those of us who are beating the snot (sorry
for the Karlism) out of 2.2, and it is looking very promising.  Hopefully
it can "prove" itself and take over for 2.1.7 within the next year.  But
I am not going to put all of MY eggs in the 2.2 basket, until I am 
confident that the basket is strong, and was well built, based on firsthand
experience.

That's why you might wish to install 2.1.7.  It's basically a matter of
faith and reliability.

If you're looking for a desktop OS?  Then the picture might be different.
2.2 should offer enough of an incentive to go that way that you may choose
to install 2.2.

... Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Greco - Systems Administrator			      jgreco@ns.sol.net
Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI			   414/342-4847

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 12:54:46 1997
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To: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
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David E. Cross wrote:
> 
> > Running what version of FreeBSD?  Did you close the holes as mentioned
> > in the advisories, or were you complacent until it was too late? :-)
> 
> I am running 2.1.6-RELEASE.  The closing the holes was a combination of
> complacentcy, and the fact that to fix these holes you practically have to
> rebuild your entire system (it is the crt0.o/setlocale() hole).
> 
> BTW: what is the expected release date of 2.2 and 2.1.7?
> 
> David Cross

was this breach from someone logged into the system?
is it possible to breach the system from outside?

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 12:56:58 1997
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From: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Message-Id: <199702192053.VAA02956@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Subject: Re: hmm
In-Reply-To: <199702191754.UAA03440@sonic.cris.net> from "Alexander V. Kalganov" at "Feb 19, 97 08:54:19 pm"
To: top@sonic.cris.net (Alexander V. Kalganov)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:53:45 +0100 (MET)
Cc: audit-bin@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers)
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Alexander V. Kalganov wrote:
> Hi
> Maybe this is a dumb question, but would someone explain me what the
> following is done for?
> 
> 	char *p;
> 
> 	if ((p = argv[0]) == NULL)
> 		errx(2,"test: argc is zero");
> 

It seems a bit strange to me. Just like the first part of the line
underneath btw:
	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
	    ^^^^^^^^^^

-Guido

Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 12:59:45 1997
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From: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
Message-Id: <199702192059.OAA07005@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Re: ports/2756: top causes segmentation fault
To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 14:59:31 CST
Cc: wosch@campa.panke.de.cs.tu-berlin.de, freebsd-ports@freefall.freebsd.org,
        freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970219201421.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 19, 97 08:14:21 pm
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> As Wolfram Schneider wrote:
> 
> > >  Recompile top.  top is very system-dependant, and since you're running
> > >  a SNAP, your first aid should be recompilation.
> > >  
> > >  top should probably live in the base system, not in ports.  I've
> > >  already removed /usr/local/bin/top on my machines at work since
> > >  /usr/local is shared, but top is by no means sharable at all.
> > 
> > Yes, we should import top(1) into the base system (src/contrib/top).
> > The top sources are only 120KB. 
> 
> Are there any contradictionary opinions?  Even Suns ship with top(1)
> by default, and given its deep internal knowledge of the kernel
> structures, the ports version is pretty useless for a machine that is
> tracking -current (or even one that is upgraded by the official
> releases when forgetting to always upgrade to the most recent version
> of top as well).

Suns do not...!  (At least, not as of SunOS 5.5.1)

It is on my list of things that get installed on _every_ system.  systat 
is nice, but the pigs display gives very little useful information compared
to top (OTOH, systat can monitor lots of useful things, top can't).  I can't
actually think of any practical advantage of systat's pigs display  :-)

I think it would be a functional addition and would not object, although it
is bloat in the general sense.

... Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Greco - Systems Administrator			      jgreco@ns.sol.net
Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI			   414/342-4847

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 13:05:48 1997
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From: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
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To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
CC: Giles Lean <giles@nemeton.com.au>, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
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Michael Smith wrote:
> 
> Giles Lean stands accused of saying:
> > >
> > > 2)  Add another meta-config entry like !, say %, which implies that
> >
> > I've seen (2) done somewhere, sometime.  Probably on a security
> > related site but my brain is not working too well right now and won't
> > cough up the location.  (If you've a cool change there in Adelaide,
> > please SEND IT ON!)
> >
> 
> Sorry, our weather station said 45C air temperature outside today.
> We're sending it back to the people that lent it to us with a note
> saying that it makes the suburb too hot 8)
> 

Sorry we're not taking deliveries in Perth..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 13:17:42 1997
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From: Narvi <narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
cc: ports@freebsd.org
Subject: the curtain falls...
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	Hi!

I'm going home without a hope of finishing another port before the curtain
on the ports freeze falls tomorrow. So I will have only 1 port for each of
the two years of my life... Got to try to get back soon after the feasting
is over after the birtfday. Could I claim the self apointed title of "The
least of the FreeBSD contributors"?

	Sander


PS. Please fix the To: and Cc: headers if you answer - I rather wouldn't
be told again that I mail to too many people/lists at once :-)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 13:21:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:11:45 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
References: <199702190339.OAA09285@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199702191421.PAA07927@server.us.tld>
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In-Reply-To: <199702191421.PAA07927@server.us.tld>; from Andre Albsmeier on Feb 19, 1997 15:21:38 +0100
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As Andre Albsmeier wrote:

> I am very happy with the IRIX 5.3 syslog. It supports the syntax
> 
> *.debug;kern.none;user.none     |/var/syslog/log-filter         /var/syslog/all
> 
> which pipes all messages through /var/syslog/log-filter and this script
> decides what to do with them.

I've got something like this in the queue.  I needed it for a
customer's site, and it's currently in ``burn-in'' test there.  It
revealed a couple of bugs and brain-o's, as soon as i've got it
working reliably there (i think i must be close now), i'll commit it
to the tree.

Unlike IRIX (i think), i'm feeding the argument of the ``|'' operator
into system(3), so you are fairly free what you're gonna do there.  If
you don't like this, simply make it ``|exec /var/syslog/log-filter''.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 13:26:29 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:20:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Coleman <chris@bb.cc.wa.us>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: 2.2-Anything Install Failure
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I haven't been able to get Anything above 2.1.6-RELEASE to install on our
server.  It is a Pentium 100mhz with a Diamond Speedstar Pro SE
and it just flashes little characters when i try to install.

I removed the Video card and replaced it with a Trident card, and the
flashing went away, but it still won't install.
the probe gets to APM powermanagement disabled, not probed.

I just skipped the visual config stuff.

Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us)
Computer Support Technician I  (509)-766-8873
Big Bend Community College  Internet Instructor
FreeBSD Book Project:  http://www.bb.cc.wa.us/~chris/book.html
I may Be inaffective, but atleast I am good at it.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 13:47:17 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:49:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Yi Lin <yilin@forbes.larc.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <199702192149.QAA25056@forbes.larc.nasa.gov>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Where is FreeBSD source code
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Hi,

I am looking for source code of user commands (e.g. ls, rm,...). I looked in
2.1.5-RELEASE/src directory. Is this the correct directory? 
Wouldn't it be nice if you have description of all the subdirectories in
the top dir (e.g. 2.1.5-RELEASE) so people can know which dir contains what?

Thanks

==============================================================

Yi Lin
Computer Sciences Corporation 

Address                                 Telephone/Email
-------                                 -------------------
NASA Langley Research Center            (757) 864-7392 (Voice)
Mail Stop 157B                          (757) 864-7604 (Fax)
Hampton, VA 23681                        y.lin@larc.nasa.gov


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 13:52:13 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:35:44 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: james@wgold.demon.co.uk (James Mansion)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Failed mail: unknown user]
References: <330AE27F.7159@wgold.demon.co.uk>
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In-Reply-To: <330AE27F.7159@wgold.demon.co.uk>; from James Mansion on Feb 19, 1997 11:22:39 +0000
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As James Mansion wrote:

> Assume that I'm using a raw device and I set it up so that
> I flush through the caches.

Raw devices (i.e., really *raw* ones, /dev/rsd0e or something, not
just /dev/sd0e) don't go through the buffer cache.  They call
physio(9), which sets up a buffer header, calls the strategy function
of the driver, and waits for the buffer's completion.

>  - if the OS tells me it has a successful write through the
>    disk device, can I rely on:
> 
>    a) the data is on the platter

It is.  Since physio(9) waits for the completion, you should be
notified of any lower-level errors.  Note that this is _unlike_ with
the block devices, where writing happens asynchronously, so the kernel
did already declare the write operation as successful by the time it
notices an error.

>  - if the system crashes during the write (literally, while
>    the drive is writing to the platter) can I:

...rely on whatever your drive vendor will tell you. :-) The OS cannot
know it then.  It has just set up the SCSI command for the operation,
and is about (or has done) sending it to the drive.  Normally, the
drive disconnects, looks up the spot, and later reconnects to the SCSI
bus, in order to request the data.  (Disclaimer: that's how i
understand it, and probably simplified.)  Since your supposed power
fault can happen any time there, it's uncertain what happens.

Needless to say, by using this method you might be safe, but you're
slow.  You can't benefit from fancy stuff like tagged command queuing
(unless there are other operations on the same disk happening
simultaneously).

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 13:53:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:43:26 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: dario@escher.usr.dsi.unimi.it (Dario Maggiorini)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: parallel read
References: <199702191142.DAA18699@freefall.freebsd.org>
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In-Reply-To: <199702191142.DAA18699@freefall.freebsd.org>; from Dario Maggiorini on Feb 19, 1997 12:37:49 +0100
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As Dario Maggiorini wrote:

> has anyone of you already 
> 
> 1 - modified the parallel driver

Dunno.

> 2 - a pointer to some kind of documentation

Add the desired input function as an ioctl into lptioctl.  You're
going to read 4 or 5 bits a time only, so you can conveniently pass
them back to the caller within a single `int' value.  I wouldn't
bother setting up a lptread() function for this.

> 3 - write asm code to access directly the memory location 
> 	( i believe it's possible but can't write it by myself, i'm in a hurry
> 	and has no time to learn asm details )

No need for hairy asm details.  They are well-hidden from you, you're
only operating with C or pseudo-C code at the driver level.  All you
need is a single inb() call.  Have a look into /sys/i386/isa/lpt.c,
and you should figure this out within an hour, provided you've got
reasonable understanding of C coding.

The ioctl command names for lpt(4) are defined in
/sys/i386/include/lpt.h, so they are usable as #include <machine/lpt.h>
from a userland program.  Simply add there a:

#define LPT_READSTAT	_IOR('p', 2, int)	/* get status bits */

Remember that your calling program must pass the _address_ of an int:

#include <sys/ioctl.h>
#include <machine/lpt.h>

...

	int status, fd;

	if ((fd = open(PATH_LP, O_RDONLY)) == -1) {
		err(...);
	}
	...
	if (ioctl(fd, LPT_READSTAT, &status) == -1) {
		err(1, "Can't read status");
	}

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 14:50:43 1997
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From: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
Message-Id: <199702192054.VAA02072@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: Re: Anybody have an Exabyte EXB8200 drive ??
To: sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk (Sxren Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:54:20 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702191943.UAA00349@ravenock.cybercity.dk> from "Sxren Schmidt" at Feb 19, 97 08:43:09 pm
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As Sxren Schmidt wrote...
> 
> And willing to let me at a copy of the two EPROM's inside ??
> I need genuine Exebyte firmware for an OEM drive that needs
> to be "normalized"...

I can send you the files I have in my 8200. Or you can grab them
from www.exabyte.com. (From the twisty maze of firmware versions,
all alike :-)

The ones I use were recommended to me by an Exabyte engineer 
and seem to work fine for me.

Wilko
_     ____________________________________________________________________
 |   / o / /  _  Bulte  email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands
 |/|/ / / /( (_) 	Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 15:01:50 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:37:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Daniel M. Eischen" <deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org>
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, y.lin@larc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD source code
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> I am looking for source code of user commands (e.g. ls, rm,...). I looked in
> 2.1.5-RELEASE/src directory. Is this the correct directory? 
> Wouldn't it be nice if you have description of all the subdirectories in
> the top dir (e.g. 2.1.5-RELEASE) so people can know which dir contains what?

Well, if you know where the ls and rm programs reside in an installed
system...

  bash$ which rm
  /bin/rm
  bash$ which ls
  /bin/ls

Then, if you're still not sure...

  bash: man hier

  [ cut ]

     /usr/    contains the majority of user utilities and applications

              bin/      common utilities, programming tools, and applications
  [ more cut ]

              src/      BSD and/or local source files

                        bin/         src for files in /bin
                        contrib/     src for files in /usr/contrib
                        etc/         src for files in /etc
                        games/       src for files in /usr/games
                        include/     src for files in /usr/include


And if you don't have a FreeBSD system handy, then grab the files
sbin.a?, cat them together, and untar/gzip them.

As an alternative, you can grab the necessary files from the -stable or
-current trees where they are not kept as tarballs:

ftp> ls rm
227 Entering Passive Mode (204,120,255,178,4,59)
150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls.
total 32
-r--r--r--  1 root  root    176 Apr 13  1995 Makefile
-r--r--r--  1 root  root   4826 Jun  4  1996 rm.1
-r--r--r--  1 root  root  10196 Jun  4  1996 rm.c
226 Transfer complete.
ftp> pwd
257 "/pub/Mirrors/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/src/bin" is current directory.

Dan Eischen
deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 15:06:32 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:31:03 -0800 (PST)
From: John-Mark Gurney <jmg@nike.efn.org>
Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Cc: "Alexander V. Kalganov" <top@sonic.cris.net>, audit-bin@FreeBSD.ORG,
        FreeBSD-hackers <FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: hmm
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Guido van Rooij wrote:

> Alexander V. Kalganov wrote:
> > Hi
> > Maybe this is a dumb question, but would someone explain me what the
> > following is done for?
> > 
> > 	char *p;
> > 
> > 	if ((p = argv[0]) == NULL)
> > 		errx(2,"test: argc is zero");
> > 
> 
> It seems a bit strange to me. Just like the first part of the line
> underneath btw:
> 	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
> 	    ^^^^^^^^^^

that makes sure that the strlen(p) > 0... you wouldn't want to access
p[-1] would you?? 

hope this helps... ttyl..

John-Mark

gurney_j@efn.org
http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/
Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954   (FreeBSD Box)

Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 15:08:16 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:08:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu>
To: Joerg Wunsch <joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
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While you are on the topic of syslog, I've noticed that if a -current or
2.2 system dies without a normal graceful shutdown, the next startup's
syslogd finds /var/run/log and won't bind to the syslog port with a
'socket already in use' error or similar.  Could /etc/rc safely remove
/var/run/log cruft ahead of starting syslogd? 

-Chris


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 15:08:56 1997
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To: <max@rnd.runnet.ru>
Cc: <hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: Internet class in RSU.
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:13:00 -0800
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Hi Max!

Just a note. If you've never worked with OS/2 you might want to give it
a
try. If nothing else it can never be compared with any Windows. In fact
when I worked with it, it seemed to resemble UNIX more than any DOS
environment.

>----------
>From: 	Maxim A. Bolotin[SMTP:max@rnd.runnet.ru]
>Sent: 	Wednesday, February 19, 1997 4:51 AM
>To: 	Terry Lambert
>Cc: 	hackers@freebsd.org
>Subject: 	Re: Internet class in RSU.
>
>On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:
>
>> > We'll have internet class granted by J.Sorros. IBM's main company that
>> > provide us computers and other equip. We want istall there FreeBSD.
>> > There are 46 computers IBM PC model 320 (or something). I know that there
>> > will be EtherJet network card from IBM. Will it work with FreeBSD?
>> > If Not, Where can I find people that can help me make it.
>> 
>> Most likely you will be running AIX on these machines.  They are not
>> Intel processor based.
>NO, It's PC. There're Pentium 133, 16Mb, HDD 850Mb, and MAIN thing I
>care about Is EtherJet ethernet card, will it work with FreeBSD?
>IBM insist to install OS/2 merlin, but We want UNIX! You understand me,
>I'll have to do it work every day, If It'll be OS/2 (or Win95) It'll
>be nightmare!
>
>> 					Terry Lambert
>> 					terry@lambert.org
>> ---
>> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
>> or previous employers.
>> 
>
>			Max.
>-
>Rostov State University   Computer Center
>Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476
>Russia, RUNNet               max@run.net.
>
>

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 15:10:05 1997
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From: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
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Subject: Re: hmm
To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 17:05:29 CST
Cc: top@sonic.cris.net, audit-bin@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org
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> > 	char *p;
> > 
> > 	if ((p = argv[0]) == NULL)
> > 		errx(2,"test: argc is zero");

Sanity check?  I can't think of any cases where this would happen, but
maybe some kernel god would correct me.

> It seems a bit strange to me. Just like the first part of the line
> underneath btw:
> 	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
> 	    ^^^^^^^^^^

That's sort of obvious, at least in the context of the second part
of the expression...

If you want to see if the last character in a string is '[', that is a
very fast way to do it ( p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' ).  However, in the case
where *p points to a zero-length string (i.e. argc[1] = ""), the expression
evaluates to an invalid case:  strlen(p) = 0, and 0 - 1 = -1.  Taking
the -1'th element of p[] is WRONG WRONG WRONG.  But the ONLY time that
this can happen is if you have a null string.  So check for it first.  

It's simply a test looking for an argument that ends with the character
'['.  It is precisely correct, with the assumption that p is a valid,
non-NULL, null terminated string of some sort.

(Alternate way to think of it: If you have a zero length string, it 
obviously can not end in '[')

... Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Greco - Systems Administrator			      jgreco@ns.sol.net
Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI			   414/342-4847

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 15:31:29 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:31:03 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Joerg Wunsch <joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: syslog filter (was Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature)
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This is very cool.  I wish I had this for some of the SunOS sites we're
nursing too.

Will this make it into 2.2?

Regards,


Mike Hancock

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, J Wunsch wrote:

> As Andre Albsmeier wrote:
> 
> > I am very happy with the IRIX 5.3 syslog. It supports the syntax
> > 
> > *.debug;kern.none;user.none     |/var/syslog/log-filter         /var/syslog/all
> > 
> > which pipes all messages through /var/syslog/log-filter and this script
> > decides what to do with them.
> 
> I've got something like this in the queue.  I needed it for a
> customer's site, and it's currently in ``burn-in'' test there.  It
> revealed a couple of bugs and brain-o's, as soon as i've got it
> working reliably there (i think i must be close now), i'll commit it
> to the tree.
> 
> Unlike IRIX (i think), i'm feeding the argument of the ``|'' operator
> into system(3), so you are fairly free what you're gonna do there.  If
> you don't like this, simply make it ``|exec /var/syslog/log-filter''.
> 
> -- 
> cheers, J"org


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 15:43:04 1997
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From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
cc: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: 2.2 Stability (was Re: another victim..)
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Joe Greco wrote:

> On the other hand, 2.1.X has been proven by time and fire to be a STABLE
> and RELIABLE OS.  My Web server is setting site uptime records:
> 
>  2:39PM  up 195 days, 23:22, 1 user, load averages: 0.21, 0.18, 0.15

I've been running 2.2 since it was "current" with apache for 5 months and
it's *never* fallen over.  The longest uptime was around 65 days, but that
was because it was taken down for kernel updates. 

The web serving load isn't very high though, httpd is generating about
30MB of logs every month. 

Regards,


Mike Hancock
 
> In the meantime, there are those of us who are beating the snot (sorry
> for the Karlism) out of 2.2, and it is looking very promising.  Hopefully
> it can "prove" itself and take over for 2.1.7 within the next year.  But
> I am not going to put all of MY eggs in the 2.2 basket, until I am 
> confident that the basket is strong, and was well built, based on firsthand
> experience.
> 
> That's why you might wish to install 2.1.7.  It's basically a matter of
> faith and reliability.
> 
> If you're looking for a desktop OS?  Then the picture might be different.
> 2.2 should offer enough of an incentive to go that way that you may choose
> to install 2.2.
> 
> ... Joe
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joe Greco - Systems Administrator			      jgreco@ns.sol.net
> Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI			   414/342-4847
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 15:56:51 1997
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To: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: another victim... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:45:31 EST."
             <199702191745.MAA00748@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> 
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:55:53 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> BTW: what is the expected release date of 2.2 and 2.1.7?

2.1.7 will be out by tomorrow morning.  2.2 is more of an early-March
thing.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 16:45:14 1997
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To: y.lin@larc.nasa.gov
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD source code 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:49:29 EST."
             <199702192149.QAA25056@forbes.larc.nasa.gov> 
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:44:12 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> I am looking for source code of user commands (e.g. ls, rm,...). I looked in
> 2.1.5-RELEASE/src directory. Is this the correct directory? 
> Wouldn't it be nice if you have description of all the subdirectories in
> the top dir (e.g. 2.1.5-RELEASE) so people can know which dir contains what?

You need to look at newer sources, that's all. :) If you go to
ftp.frebsd.org and look at the 2.1.7-RELEASE (which is really what you
should be running instead of 2.1.5 anyway), you will see a file called
ABOUT.TXT which does exactly what you ask.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 16:47:02 1997
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To: Chris Coleman <chris@bb.cc.wa.us>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: 2.2-Anything Install Failure 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:20:46 PST."
             <Pine.NEB.3.94.970219131729.1007B-100000@aries.bb.cc.wa.us> 
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:46:08 -0800
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> I haven't been able to get Anything above 2.1.6-RELEASE to install on our
> server.  It is a Pentium 100mhz with a Diamond Speedstar Pro SE
> and it just flashes little characters when i try to install.

Yep, saw your PR.  I've assigned it to Soren, our syscons hacker.
If anybody can fix it (and if anybody broke it), it's Soren. :-)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 16:54:28 1997
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To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>, matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas)
From: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
Subject: Re: if_de bug found!
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dg@freebsd.org
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At 11:30 AM 2/19/97 +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
>After long and painful debugging I found the bug with the 21140A driver
>(if_de.c) from netbsd. The driver has a workaround for a bug of the
>21140A when buffers overflow, and stops the receiver and resets the
>board when this occurs. This is done in the driver (around line 3230)
>by reading from CSR8 into "misses".
>
>Matt said this is an 'extremely rare' event, on my board, though, it
>turned out to happen at the end of every interrupt... A look at
>the 21140A reference manuals (on line on the DEC site) shows that the 3
>high bits of CSR8 are set, so that they should be ignored. After doing
>this, the driver works like a charm.
>
>Probably the correct fix is to trigger the workaround only when b16 of
>CSR8 is set. Matt ?
>
>Thanks to Matt for writing the driver and suggesting that the event is
>rare, and to DEC for making the hardware manuals available on line.
>
>I'll submit a PR shortly. This might be a 2.2 candidate, if the if_de
>driver in 2.2 has the same workaround. David, can you check ?

Does this fix the -AC problem?

Will something that lets use use -AC cards in 2.1.7 be made available? 

Dennis

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 17:00:23 1997
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To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de
CC: james@wgold.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.org, dufault@hda.com
In-reply-to: <Mutt.19970219223544.j@uriah.heep.sax.de>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Failed mail: unknown user]
From: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * >  - if the OS tells me it has a successful write through the
 * >    disk device, can I rely on:
 * > 
 * >    a) the data is on the platter
 * 
 * It is.  Since physio(9) waits for the completion, you should be
 * notified of any lower-level errors.  Note that this is _unlike_ with
 * the block devices, where writing happens asynchronously, so the kernel
 * did already declare the write operation as successful by the time it
 * notices an error.

Really?  I think drives have their own cache, and if they have write
buffering turned on, they will happily return "write complete" when
they are only holding data in the buffer.

I know Seagate ST15150WC (old Barracuda 4) had the write buffer
disabled, while Quantum 34300WC (Atlas 4) had it enabled.  If you
really want to make sure you write through to the platter, either get
one of those that don't have it turned on or turn it off by youself
(I heard it's in one of the SCSI mode pages).

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 17:00:43 1997
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From: Don Yuniskis <dgy@rtd.com>
Message-Id: <199702200100.SAA10423@seagull.rtd.com>
Subject: GCC cross compiles
To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:00:40 -0700 (MST)
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Greetings!
    I know there have been problems with using the "more current"
GCC releases on (non -current) FBSD releases to build FBSD
itself.
    However, am I correct in assuming that one can safely build
*cross* compilers under reasonably recent FBSD releases using
the latest GCC sources (i.e. host=FBSD2.1R, target=68k)?
Has anyone done this and had decent success?
    Thanx!
--don

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 17:01:20 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:54:36 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702200054.LAA11679@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
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>While you are on the topic of syslog, I've noticed that if a -current or
>2.2 system dies without a normal graceful shutdown, the next startup's
>syslogd finds /var/run/log and won't bind to the syslog port with a
>'socket already in use' error or similar.  Could /etc/rc safely remove
>/var/run/log cruft ahead of starting syslogd? 

/etc/rc used to do that, but was broken in rev.1.89.  The clearing
probably should be done immediately after mounting things.

Bruce

----------------------------
revision 1.89
date: 1996/05/08 09:25:57;  author: jkh;  state: Exp;  lines: +2 -2
Nuke the nasty cleaning of /var/run after netstart starts - it nukes
gated's pid file, for one thing, and is just generally BAD.
----------------------------

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 17:21:09 1997
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From: Thomas David Rivers <ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Message-Id: <199702200053.TAA29513@lakes.water.net>
To: ponds!root.com!dg, ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers
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> >This morning's panic was inode #177593.  (Certainly doesn't
> >seem to be one that would fall on any inodes/group boundary)
> >I'll clear that one and hope for the best.
> >
> >However, when I did the fsck on that file system; two files were
> >associated with that inode - so, it probably was, in fact, already
> >allocated...  Maybe the allocation structure is sorta messed up and
> >it's picking up random bits somewhere...  I'm beginning to believe
> >some randomness (along the lines of an uninitilized variable) is
> >part of the problem here...

 Although this was personal mail - I'm taking the liberty of reflecting
it to freebsd-hackers so it will go into the archives...

> 
>    It's really weird that you're seeing these panics so often. 

 Yep - it sure is; especially since I seem to be the only one seeing
it.

 Just F.Y.I. - when I came home this afternoon this particular machine had 
panic'd again (that's twice in one day) - this time with inode #77681.  I 
seem to have fallen into that state where the panic's just come on-and-on.  
A machine will run for a month or so, and then suddenly start getting 
this panics daily (or, as today, even more often.)

>                                                                Is there
> something special you're doing to make those filesystems? 

 Well - on the machine where I reproduce the problem; I'm doing
a newfs and a mkdir... nothing too special there.  On the "production"
machine that's seeing this; it's my news/mail gateway... running an
old version of Cnews.

>                                                           I've not seen
> this on wcarchive (19 disk drives, all very busy), and I haven't seen it
> on a local news server (which gets a full news feed and delivers news
> to dozens of other sites). ...it just seems really strange that this
> problem is hitting you so often when I've *never* seen it happen.

 Yes - that's been the paradox ever since it started....

>    Obviously, there is a bug somewhere since phk was able to reproduce
> the problem. ...but just out of curiosity, what do you have the DMA
> rate set to on your 1542B, and what is your ISA bus speed set to on
> your 386 motherboard? 

 Ah - you're assuming I only see this on one machine.  The machine
that's got the reliable reproduction is a 386 with a 1542B.  The machine
that's getting the daily panics is a 386 with an IDE controller and
a relatively new MAXTOR IDE drive...

>                       It would also be interesting if the problem was
> affected by adding more memory. Is it possible to upgrade the machine
> to 16MB?

 Unfortunately; both machines are maxed out (out of 30-pin SIMM slots.)

 One machine has 8 meg; the other has 12 meg.  [Also, remember, my
reliable reproduction is caused during the base installation of FreeBSD,
so not too much else is going on :-) ]

 But - not to damper this at all; I'm thrilled to examine just about any 
avenue you care to consider... and if you have any ideas to try I'd
be happy to undertake them!!!  _Any_ Ideas :-)

> 
> -DG

	- Dave Rivers -

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 17:24:08 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:22:52 -0800 (PST)
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Position Available: Kernel Hacker ( Seattle )
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hey folks,

i realize that this is probably not the most appropriate place to
post this type of thing... my appologies... we are currently looking to
fill both staff and contract software engineer positions. the
description is as follows:

-----

Kernel Hacker ( Seattle )

Real inovation requires a break with tradition. If you like solving
difficult problems and smashing old performance barriers we would like to
hear from you. This position is based in Seattle. The ideal applicant is
experienced in C, BSD Unix, TCP/IP, has good communication skills and is a
motivated independent worker. BS degree and minimum 2 years experience
required. 

Applications:

 email:
       jobs@f5.com Ascii or MIME attached MSWord resumes accepted.
 Voice:
       (206) 447-1817, ask for Brian Dixon
 Fax:
       (206) 447-9636, Attn: Brian Dixon
 Post:
       Recruiting
       F5 Labs
       1218 3rd Ave., Suite 508
       Seattle, WA 98101


-----

if you are interested please respond in one of the above ways only,
all direct replies to myself will go to /dev/null. for further info
on F5 Labs, have a look at http://www.f5.com.

tia,

m.

Matt Sommer, Network Systems Engineer		InterNIC: MMS26
F5 Labs, Inc.	1218 3rd Ave., Suite 508	Seattle, WA 98101
e-mail:	mms@f5.com	Voice: 206.447.1817	Fax: 206.447.9636
1A7B3D4D 1996/09/27 =  DD 49 89 EE 81 FF AC CA  A1 19 A1 75 87 22 DC 53


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 17:34:52 1997
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From: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
Message-Id: <199702200134.TAA09095@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Re: 2.2 Stability (was Re: another victim..)
To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 19:34:16 CST
Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SV4.3.95.970220083130.10199C-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp> from "Michael Hancock" at Feb 20, 97 08:40:04 am
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> I've been running 2.2 since it was "current" with apache for 5 months and
> it's *never* fallen over.  The longest uptime was around 65 days, but that
> was because it was taken down for kernel updates. 
> 
> The web serving load isn't very high though, httpd is generating about
> 30MB of logs every month. 

I don't think I've seen any instances of 2.2 truly falling over, either,
although there are times where it seems to "pause" during heavy VM activity
that doesn't happen with 2.1.X.  It's been hard to quantify precisely.

I am not trying to say that 2.2 is bad, I'm just saying that its track
record (no matter how good) is not very long.

... JG

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 17:46:36 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702200144.MAA14132@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970219145658.13262C-100000@opus.cts.cwu.edu> from Chris Timmons at "Feb 19, 97 03:08:08 pm"
To: skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu (Chris Timmons)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:14:55 +1030 (CST)
Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org
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Chris Timmons stands accused of saying:
> 
> While you are on the topic of syslog, I've noticed that if a -current or
> 2.2 system dies without a normal graceful shutdown, the next startup's
> syslogd finds /var/run/log and won't bind to the syslog port with a
> 'socket already in use' error or similar.  Could /etc/rc safely remove
> /var/run/log cruft ahead of starting syslogd? 

You should update /etc/rc by hand after a 'make world'.

> -Chris
> 
> 


-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 17:54:43 1997
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[ Again ]

Terry, watch me, and repeat this on your keyboard.

'I was wrong, you are correct.'

[ You look more foolish all the time ]

> I am typing this from a telnet running from a Windows95 box.  I am an
> MSDN level II developer.

So am I.  It's irrelevant, as well as all of your other 'claims to
fame'.  We're talking about what Win95 upgrades do, not what kind of
developer you are.  You stated that Win95 doesn't use DOS devices when
an upgrade occurs, and you're wrong.  Plain wrong.  You can argue about
how you are misinformed, misaligned, misunderstood, but in fact you are
plain mistaken.  Wrong.

> I can not speak for your experiences, except to say that they are
> quite bizarre, and not in line with my own.  Given that I had access
> to the Windows95 Alpha and have been installing the thing over and
> over (I did work on FS drivers -- duh) since around December of 1994,

And so have I.  *SO* WHAT!!!!!  It's irrelevant.

> I *probably* have installed it more than you have.  And I'm telling
> you that your experiences are not my experiences, and I can not
> explain how you arrived at yours.

I don't have to explain it, only I can say with absolute and completey
knowledge that you're wrong.

C'mon, I *really* want to see you admit you're wrong instead of changing
the subject to something like how many times you've installed it and
never seen it happen, or what you read, or something else.  You're
simply *wrong*


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 18:02:31 1997
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Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:03:59 -0700 (MST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702190645.RAA10685@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 19, 97 05:15:51 pm
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> The file of death :
> 
> -rw-r--r--   1 msmith  users  5133540 Dec 11 09:12 linux_lib-2.3.tar.gz
> 
> No matter how I try to transfer this file, about 4MB (the figure
> varies by a few kB) makes it, and then the transfer stops with both
> ends sleeping on 'sbwait' (I've used ftp, ncftp, fetch, rcp so
> far...).  The same happens with the file coming from a source further
> away (on the other side of the source machine).

[ ... ]

> ANY ideas?  At all? Please?

This was recently discussed on -current, but the file was on a Linux
box.  Make sure TCP extensions are off on both ends; you probably have
broken hardware somewhere in between which is lighting all the bits.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 18:04:19 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702191807.LAA13365@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:07:13 -0700 (MST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970219095201.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk> from "Philippe Regnauld" at Feb 19, 97 09:52:01 am
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> 	Don't tell me it's just to plant a flag and say, "There, we have
> 	GPM like the Linuxites".  Otherwise he'd have imported GPM, no... ?

No, it's not.  We invented it first.  They just implemented it first.
8-) 8-).


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 18:07:55 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702200206.MAA14275@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
In-Reply-To: <199702191803.LAA13344@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 19, 97 11:03:59 am"
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:36:45 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org
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Terry Lambert stands accused of saying:
> > The file of death :
> > 
> > -rw-r--r--   1 msmith  users  5133540 Dec 11 09:12 linux_lib-2.3.tar.gz
> > 
> > No matter how I try to transfer this file, about 4MB (the figure
> > varies by a few kB) makes it, and then the transfer stops with both
> > ends sleeping on 'sbwait' (I've used ftp, ncftp, fetch, rcp so
> > far...).  The same happens with the file coming from a source further
> > away (on the other side of the source machine).
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> > ANY ideas?  At all? Please?
> 
> This was recently discussed on -current, but the file was on a Linux
> box.  Make sure TCP extensions are off on both ends; you probably have
> broken hardware somewhere in between which is lighting all the bits.

The file is on BSD box 1.  BSD box 1 has a modem on a serial port.
BSD box 2 has another mode on a serial port.  BSD box 2 dials BSD box
1, connects via SLIP.  BSD box 2 attempts to transfer the File Of
Death from BSD box 1.  Note that the file can come from systems
further away (BSD box 1 is a router), the transfer will still fail.

Other traffic, including larger files, moves fine.  This file stops after
about 4M.

> 					Terry Lambert

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 18:08:15 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702191833.LAA13401@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
To: sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk (Søren Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:33:47 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hm@kts.org,
        ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de,
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> > Look at the "Linux GGI" code (run a search on AltaVista for it, or
> > look for "Generic Graphic Interface" in the Linux groups on DejaNews).
> > It is *exactly* the "super console" design that never got done in
> > the BSD camps after it was first discussed in fall of 1993.
> 
> I've looked at it, and I'm not that impressed. It tires to solve the
> problems we all know and love, but its still VERY green.

I agree.  I was responding to the idea Mike put forward:

] ...
] the fact that they haven't been
] implemented should tell you something very important.
] ...

to wit: they *have* been implemented.


> Its like the svgalib, its starts out as a good idea, but fall short
> in getting enough support for all the different chipsets. It
> seems they only have very rudimentary support yet, they havn't
> gotten all of XFree86 in there yet...

I know.  And I'm not advocating that... they have approached it
differently than I would have approached it: I would have started
with an SVGA driver in a framework which did not preclude (but also
didn't initially provide) drivers with more suported modes, both
text and graphic.


> Even XFree86 has now the problem that it "only" supports so many
> chipsets, and I (and lots of others) has found it nessesary to
> go BUY (yuck!) a Xserver to cope with ones wierd videohardware.

Different problem.  Manufacturers haven't learned how to write video
BIOS yet -- or they intentionally avoid standardizing on a mode data
abstraction mechanism to make it difficult to support cards from
them *and* their competitors.


> I think we are better of letting the Xserver vendors have the
> "good times" doing the chiplevel support (hey then they can live
> too!), and let the rest of us just use X, and then spend the
> huge amounts of time we save on other businesses.

Support for mode selection and access type (linear frame buffer, etc.)
can be logically seperated from sending chipset specific commands
for line draws, etc..  I'd still keep part of DDX in user space.


> Oh, yes and the GGI people has allready written off all the *BSD's
> by cribbeling the code with GNU's copytheft...
> (XFree86 Inc can now find lots of their code GNUinfected :) :) )

I saw that too; like I said: they have approached it differently than
I would have approached it.


> Besides this I still think we could need a simple system that will
> run on std VGA/EGA/CGA/HGA, and provide a simple graphics interface
> for sysadm utils and the like, but being REAL small on resource
> usage (yes I have been working on this for a looooong time, and
> have most of whats needed, just no real use for it yet).
> This can be done with the support we allready have, including
> switching vtys etc etc....

If we look at the current console driver as our "default" SVGA driver,
then we have this support already.  The missing piece is the component
seperation of emulation and VT management from mode and access type.
This seperation would be a win in any event, even if we never took
it any further.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 18:08:15 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702191800.LAA13334@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: jamie@inna.net (Jamie Bowden)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:00:23 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu,
        hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.970218210847.274F-100000@dolphin.inna.net> from "Jamie Bowden" at Feb 18, 97 09:10:39 pm
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> > > It's still just dos/windoze.
> > 
> > It's mostly DOS/Windows.  A lot of it isn't, particularly the VM and
> > the scheduler code.
> 
> Which you only get if you start the gui.  You're still in dos, new and 
> improved?  maybe :-/, but still 16 bit operating environment.

Wrong.  16 bit code will not run in Windows95 without extreme measures;
these measures are described in detail in the DDK documentation in
DDK\DOCS\STDVXD.DOC and VMM.DOC.  16 bit code must be run in a seperate
VM, or in the system VM in a part of the legacy scheduler interface used
for Windows3.x compatability, which Microsoft calls "Appy Time"; it
is similar to bouncing signals to user processes in BSD.

The big "wart" on Windows95 is the mapping of some crap required by
non-Win32 backward compatability modes into each process address
space.  OS/2 instances this instead, and manages instance conflicts,
which is why it's more reliable, but slower running DOS boxes...
sometimes much slower.  It was a conscious "memory protection vs. OS/2
winning the market" trade off, given the lack of Win32/Win32s programs
vs. the number of legacy apps they would orphan.  It is for this reason
that I suspect the useful lifetime of Windows95 at no more than 2
more years until these applications must use OS/2-style instances,
paying the higher performance penalty for not being Win32 programs,
probably in an OS derived from Windows NT Worksatation.


For what it's worth, *NOW* is the time for BSD to look at fully
supporting the Win32 API.  Linux too, for that matter.


In general, 32 bit code communicates with 16 bit code using a mechanism
called "thunking".  To get this back to being topical for the list it
is being posted to, it would be useful for BSD to implement a virtual
machine manager similar to Windows95's (and NT's) so it, too, could
"thunk", even if we did not support "CallAtAppyTime" interfaces because
we didn't dip into real mode in the scheduler to make drivers and TSR's
in the default real mode VM happy by simulating calls to the "DOS not
busy" interrupt.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 18:08:22 1997
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Message-Id: <199702191737.KAA13304@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:37:34 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, jamie@inna.net, toneil@visigenic.com,
        jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702190220.TAA20367@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 18, 97 07:20:53 pm
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> > > You're wrong Terry.  The win31 -> win95 upgrade copies your autoexec and 
> > > config files to .dos, and rems some of the old drivers (like msdex) out, 
> > > but overall it will use the 16bit dos drivers happily.
> > 
> > Not according to King and Schulman...
> 
> Terry, watch me, and repeat this on your keyboard.
> 
> 'I was wrong, you are correct.'
> 
> Don't trust to justify yourself and change the subject.  It only makes
> you look silly and petty.  Admit you are wrong.
> 
> I looked through the databases and couldn't find any articles where you
> admitted you were wrong, so I want to see it once.

You can't *use* what you don't *load*.

I agree that it renames the files... I said it before you did, in fact:

] Loading Win95 on a system will rename the "config.sys" and "autoexec.bat"
] to "config.dos" and "autoexec.dos" so that they will not be run by default.


YES, the drivers it doesn't like are REM'ed out in this process.

NO, Windows95 does not run autoexec.dos or load from config.dos.


> ps. I also know you are wrong because the same thing happened when I
> upgraded to Win95 on my box.

I am typing this from a telnet running from a Windows95 box.  I am an
MSDN level II developer.  I have done significant amounts of ring 0
programming, including porting the Heidemann VFS framework to Windows95
and correcting the problems in it there which you won't let me correct
in FreeBSD.  I know what the hell I am talking about.

Have you even read the Schulman book, where it talks about incrementally
going from "DOS 7.0" to "Windows95", a VXD at a time?  The boot process
and dependencies are described in detail.


I can not speak for your experiences, except to say that they are
quite bizarre, and not in line with my own.  Given that I had access
to the Windows95 Alpha and have been installing the thing over and
over (I did work on FS drivers -- duh) since around December of 1994,
I *probably* have installed it more than you have.  And I'm telling
you that your experiences are not my experiences, and I can not
explain how you arrived at yours.

Here are all the files references by io.sys in the boot state of Win95;
repeititions not differeing by drive letter are used during "safe mode"
booting, which is implemented in io.sys.:

	C:\SYSTEM.DAT
	\CONFIG.SYS
	A:\COUNTRY.SYS
	\HIMEM.SYS
	\ASPI2DOS.SYS
	\ASPI2HLP.SYS
	\DBLBUFF.SYS
	\IFSHLP.SYS
	C:\MSDOSSYS.STS
	IO.SYS
	MSDOS.SYS
	C:\MSDOS.SYS
	CONFIG.SYS
	WINBOOT.SYS
	MBRINT13.SYS
	QEMM386.SYS
	DBLS.BIN
	\LOGO.SYS
	C:\IO.SYS
	C:\WINBOOT.SYS
	\COUNTRY.SYS
	\AUTOEXEC.BAT
	AUTOEXEC.BAT

*NOTICE* the *lack* of references to "config.dos" and "autoexec.dos".


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 18:08:23 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702191714.KAA13246@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Internet class in RSU.
To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:14:04 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, max@rnd.runnet.ru, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SV4.3.95.970219112402.2146A-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp> from "Michael Hancock" at Feb 19, 97 11:25:51 am
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> > > We'll have internet class granted by J.Sorros. IBM's main company that
> > > provide us computers and other equip. We want istall there FreeBSD.
> > > There are 46 computers IBM PC model 320 (or something). I know that there
> > > will be EtherJet network card from IBM. Will it work with FreeBSD?
> > > If Not, Where can I find people that can help me make it.
> > 
> > Most likely you will be running AIX on these machines.  They are not
> > Intel processor based.
> 
> No, there are PC's.  I setup one up that came with 3COM EISA cards
> last year.  I think it has a Neptune based motherboard.

$%!#! IBM numbering schemes.... 8-) 8-).

I stand corrected.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 19:20:44 1997
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From: Thomas David Rivers <ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com>
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To: ponds!root.com!dg, ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers,
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Subject: Re: kern/2771: panic: bad dir (possibly same as "dup alloc" problem?)
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> 
>  In article <199702191605.SAA03914@news.clinet.fi> Heikki Suonsivu <hsu@clinet.fi> writes:
>  One more thing about this panic; we did not have any problems with this
>  system when it was installed and the disks were mostly empty.  The problems
>  started when expire kicked in after about two weeks.  We have a
>  built-ourselves expire which keeps space available constant by removing old
>  articles one-by-one, so load it different from traditional news server.
>  

 Let me add to that description.

 Most of the time, on my system this results in a 
panic: ffs_valloc: dup alloc.  However, every now-and-then, I get
a "bad dir" panic as well.

 If you've been following the discussions about "dup alloc" panics;
feel free to join in...  I have definite suspicions this is the
same problem...

 What make's me think that is that, as you, I have my own expire
that removes files one-at-a-time....  (I'm running a rather old (~1990)
version of Cnews - which does make the load different.

	- Dave Rivers -

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 19:26:00 1997
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        hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent 
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             <199702191800.LAA13334@phaeton.artisoft.com> 
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>From The Desk Of Terry Lambert :

> For what it's worth, *NOW* is the time for BSD to look at fully
> supporting the Win32 API.  Linux too, for that matter.

I got to agree with Terry on this one and anything that we can do
to import drivers or sub-systems is well critical. I am thinking
about Directxxx stuff which stands to make win95 / winnt a very
nice platform.

	Cheers,
	Amancio




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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702200350.OAA15154@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
In-Reply-To: <199702191800.LAA13334@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 19, 97 11:00:23 am"
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:20:42 +1030 (CST)
Cc: jamie@inna.net, terry@lambert.org, toneil@visigenic.com,
        jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
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Terry Lambert stands accused of saying:
> 
> For what it's worth, *NOW* is the time for BSD to look at fully
> supporting the Win32 API.  Linux too, for that matter.

Er, yeah.  You have ABI documentation that's vaguely accurate and
legit?  You are willing to fund this?  (Or you know someone else who
is?)

And lastly, is your tongue turning black? (Name of the Rose)

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 20:04:03 1997
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Message-ID: <330BCC2C.41C6@jazz.snu.ac.kr>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:59:40 +0900
From: Choi Jun Ho <junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr>
Organization: DCSLAB, CS Dept, SNU, Korea
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CC: junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr
Subject: Korean Locale definition - ko_KR.EUC.src
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------167E2781446B
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Hello,

I made a LC_CTYPE definition of Korean locale, ko_KR.EUC.(EUC-KR code).
I wish it will be available in next FreeBSD release...

Please somebody reply to me(address is in signature) whether my
locale definition will be included in FreeBSD-current, or when it
will be, because I didn't subscribed to FreeBSD-hackers mailing list...

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------^^---
Judgement Uninfected Naked Kind & Executive Ranger    - J U N K E R
                             from KONAMI 1990 "SD-Snatcher" in MSX2
Choi Jun Ho <junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr>   http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker
Distributed Computing System Lab,   CS Dept.,  Seoul National Univ.

--------------167E2781446B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="ko_KR.EUC.src"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ko_KR.EUC.src"

/*
 * Korean LOCALE_CTYPE definitions using EUC-KR character sets
 *
 * Choi Jun Ho, junker@vishnu.snu.ac.kr
 * NARAE, Seoul National Univ., CS Dept.
 * 96.12.3
 *
 * It is based on manpage mklocale(1), euc(4).
 * 
 */

ENCODING     "EUC"

/* EUC-KR
 * 0xa1a1-0xfefe
 * byte 1: 0xa1-0xfe
 * byte 2: 0xa1-0xfe
 */

VARIABLE     1 0x0000 2 0x8080 2 0x0080 3 0x8000 0x8080

/*
 * Code Set 1, US-ASCII equivalent
 */
ALPHA	     'A' - 'Z' 'a' - 'z'
CONTROL	     0x00 - 0x1f 0x7f
DIGIT	     '0' - '9'
GRAPH	     0x21 - 0x7e
LOWER	     'a' - 'z'
PUNCT	     0x21 - 0x2f 0x3a - 0x40 0x5b - 0x60 0x7b - 0x7e
SPACE	     0x09 - 0x0d 0x20
UPPER	     'A' - 'Z'
XDIGIT	     'a' - 'f' 'A' - 'F'
BLANK	     ' '
PRINT	     0x20 - 0x7e

MAPLOWER     < 'A' - 'Z' : 'a' > < 'a' - 'z' : 'a' >
MAPUPPER     < 'A' - 'Z' : 'A' > < 'a' - 'z' : 'A' >
TODIGIT	     < '0' - '9' : 0 >
TODIGIT	     < 'A' - 'F' : 10 > < 'a' - 'f' : 10 >

/*
 * Code Set 2, EUC-KR
 */
ALPHA        0xa3c1 - 0xa3da 0xa3e1 - 0xa3fa
DIGIT        0xa3b0 - 0xa3b9
UPPER        0xa3c1 - 0xa3da
LOWER        0xa3e1 - 0xa3fa
PUNCT	     0xa3a1 - 0xa3af 0xa3ba - 0xa3c0 0xa3db - 0xa3e0 0xa3fb - 0xa3fe
SPACE	     0xa1a1
XDIGIT       0xa3c1 - 0xa3c6 0xa3e1 - 0xa3e6
BLANK        0xa1a1
PRINT        0xa1a1 - 0xfefe
SPECIAL	     0xa1a2 - 0xa2e5

MAPLOWER     < 0xa3c1 - 0xa3da : 0xa3e1 > < 0xa3e1 - 0xa3fa : 0xa3e1 >
MAPUPPER     < 0xa3c1 - 0xa3da : 0xa3c1 > < 0xa3b0 - 0xa3b9 : 0xa3c1 >
TODIGIT      < 0xa3b1 - 0xa3b9 : 0 >
TODIGIT      < 0xa3c1 - 0xa3c6 : 10 > < 0xa3e1 - 0xa3e6 : 10 >


UPPER	     0xa5c1 - 0xa5d8			     /* Greek */
LOWER	     0xa5e1 - 0xa5f8			     /* Greek */
MAPLOWER     < 0xa5c1 - 0xa5d8 : 0xa5e1 > < 0xa5e1 - 0xa5f8 : 0xa5e1 >
MAPUPPER     < 0xa5c1 - 0xa5d8 : 0xa5c1 > < 0xa5e1 - 0xa5f8 : 0xa5c1 >

UPPER	     0xaca1 - 0xacc1			     /* Cyrillic */
LOWER	     0xacd1 - 0xacf1			     /* Cyrillic */
MAPLOWER     < 0xaca1 - 0xacc1 : 0xacd1 > < 0xacd1 - 0xacf1 : 0xacd1 >
MAPUPPER     < 0xaca1 - 0xacc1 : 0xaca1 > < 0xacd1 - 0xacf1 : 0xaca1 >

SPECIAL	     0xa5a1 - 0xa5aa  0xa5b0 - 0xa5b9 /* greek digit */ 
SPECIAL      0xa6a1 - 0xa6e4  0xa7a1 - 0xa7ef /* symbols */
SPECIAL      0xa8a1 - 0xa8fe  0xa9a1 - 0xa9fe /* circle symbols */

PHONOGRAM    0xa4a1 - 0xa4fe  /* no combined hangul */
PHONOGRAM    0xaaa1 - 0xaaf3  /* hirakana */
PHONOGRAM    0xaba1 - 0xabf3  /* katakana */

PHONOGRAM    0xb0a1 - 0xb0fe  0xb1a1 - 0xb1fe  0xb2a1 - 0xb2fe
PHONOGRAM    0xb3a1 - 0xb3fe  0xb4a1 - 0xb4fe  0xb5a1 - 0xb5fe
PHONOGRAM    0xb6a1 - 0xb6fe  0xb7a1 - 0xb7fe  0xb8a1 - 0xb8fe
PHONOGRAM    0xb9a1 - 0xb9fe  0xbaa1 - 0xbafe  0xbba1 - 0xbbfe
PHONOGRAM    0xbca1 - 0xbcfe  0xbda1 - 0xbdfe  0xbea1 - 0xbefe
PHONOGRAM    0xbfa1 - 0xbffe  0xc0a1 - 0xc0fe  0xc1a1 - 0xc1fe
PHONOGRAM    0xc2a1 - 0xc2fe  0xc3a1 - 0xc3fe  0xc4a1 - 0xc4fe
PHONOGRAM    0xc5a1 - 0xc5fe  0xc6a1 - 0xc6fe  0xc7a1 - 0xc7fe
PHONOGRAM    0xc8a1 - 0xc8fe  /* hangul composed */

IDEOGRAM     0xcaa1 - 0xcafe  0xcba1 - 0xcbfe  0xcca1 - 0xccfe  
IDEOGRAM     0xcda1 - 0xcdfe  0xcea1 - 0xcefe  0xcfa1 - 0xcffe  
IDEOGRAM     0xd0a1 - 0xd0fe  0xd1a1 - 0xd1fe  0xd2a1 - 0xd2fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xd3a1 - 0xd3fe  0xd4a1 - 0xd4fe  0xd5a1 - 0xd5fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xd6a1 - 0xd6fe  0xd7a1 - 0xd7fe  0xd8a1 - 0xd8fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xd9a1 - 0xd9fe  0xdaa1 - 0xdafe  0xdba1 - 0xdbfe  
IDEOGRAM     0xdca1 - 0xdcfe  0xdda1 - 0xddfe  0xdea1 - 0xdefe  
IDEOGRAM     0xdfa1 - 0xdffe  0xe0a1 - 0xe0fe  0xe1a1 - 0xe1fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xe2a1 - 0xe2fe  0xe3a1 - 0xe3fe  0xe4a1 - 0xe4fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xe5a1 - 0xe5fe  0xe6a1 - 0xe6fe  0xe7a1 - 0xe7fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xe8a1 - 0xe8fe  0xe9a1 - 0xe9fe  0xeaa1 - 0xeafe  
IDEOGRAM     0xeba1 - 0xebfe  0xeca1 - 0xecfe  0xeda1 - 0xedfe  
IDEOGRAM     0xeea1 - 0xeefe  0xefa1 - 0xeffe  0xf0a1 - 0xf0fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xf1a1 - 0xf1fe  0xf2a1 - 0xf2fe  0xf3a1 - 0xf3fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xf4a1 - 0xf4fe  0xf5a1 - 0xf5fe  0xf6a1 - 0xf6fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xf7a1 - 0xf7fe  0xf8a1 - 0xf8fe  0xf9a1 - 0xf9fe  
IDEOGRAM     0xfaa1 - 0xfafe  0xfba1 - 0xfbfe  0xfca1 - 0xfcfe  
IDEOGRAM     0xfda1 - 0xfdfe  /* hanja */

/*
 * We have no Codeset 3, it is dummy
 */
SPECIAL      0xa1 - 0xfe
PHONOGRAM    0xa1 - 0xfe
PRINT        0xa1 - 0xfe

--------------167E2781446B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; name="ko_locale.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ko_locale.html"
Content-Base: "http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker/work/fre
	ebsd/ko_locale.html"

<BASE HREF="http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker/work/freebsd/ko_locale.html">

<head>
<title>FreeBSD: ko_KR.euc locale</title>
</head>

<body bgcolor=#ffffff fgcolor=#000000>

<h1>FreeBSD¿¡Œ­ ÇÑ±Û locale(ko_KR.euc)žžµé±â</h1>
<hr>

FreeBSD¿¡ŽÂ ±âº»ÀûÀž·Î C¶óÀ̺귯ž® ŒöÁØÀÇ(ANSI) localeÀ» Áö¿øÇÕŽÏŽÙ. ÀÌžŠ
»ç¿ëÇÏžé °¢ ±¹Ÿî·Î º°µµÀÇ °úÁ€ ŸøÀÌ vi¿Í °°Àº ÇÁ·Î±×·¥¿¡Œ­ ÇÑ±Û »ç¿ëÀ» ÇÒ
Œö ÀÖœÀŽÏŽÙ. ÀÌ °æ¿ì, ±âº»ÀûÀÎ Çѱ¹Ÿî localeÀÌ ŸøÀž¹Ç·Î žžµéŸî ÁÖŸîŸß ÇÕŽÏŽÙ.

<h3>ÇÑ±Û localeÀ» Œ³Ä¡ÇÏŽÂ ¹æ¹ý</h3>

<ol>
 <li> ±âº»ÀÌ µÇŽÂ <a href="LANGUAGE_CTYPE">ŒÒœº</a>žŠ LANGUAGE_CTYPEÀž·Î ÀúÀåÇÕŽÏŽÙ.
 <li> mklocale(1)À» »ç¿ëÇÏ¿© localeÆÄÀÏÀ» žžµìŽÏŽÙ.
<pre>
  % mklocale &lt LANGUAGE_CTYPE &gt LC_CTYPE
</pre>
 <li> ·çÆ®±ÇÇÑÀž·Î ŽÙÀœÀÇ ží·ÉÀ» œÇÇàÇÕŽÏŽÙ.
<pre>
  # mkdir /usr/share/locale/ko_KR.euc
  # cd /usr/share/locale/
  # ln -s ko_KR.euc korean
  # ln -s ko_KR.euc ko_KR
  # ln -s ko_KR.euc ko
</pre>
 <li> ÅלºÆ®ŽÂ ÇѱÛÀÌ µÇŽÂ Å͹̳Î(ÇÑÅÒ µî)¿¡Œ­
<pre>
  % setenv LANG ko
  % vi
</pre>
   ÇØŒ­ ÇÑ±Û ÀÔ·ÂÀÌ µÇŽÂÁö È®ÀÎÇϜñ⠹ٶøŽÏŽÙ.

  ÅלºÆ®Çϱâ Àü¿¡ ¹Ìž® 
<pre>
  % setenv LANG ko            (csh, tcsh)
  $ LANG=ko; export LANG      (sh)
  $ export LANG=ko            (bash)
</pre>
   ·Î ȯ°æº¯Œö LANGžŠ ko³ª ko_KR, ko_KR.euc, korean
   µîÀž·Î žÂÃßŸî µÎœÃ±â ¹Ù¶øŽÏŽÙ.
</ol>

<h3>ÇѱÛÀÌ ŸÈ³ª¿ÀŽÂ °æ¿ìŽÂ...</h3>
<ul>
 <li> GQ!.%°°ÀÌ ³ª¿ÀŽÂ °æ¿ì<br>
     ÀÌ °æ¿ìŽÂ ÇÑ±Û Œ³Á€Àº µÇŸúŽÂµ¥ Å͹̳ΠŒ³Á€»ó 8ºñÆ® ijž¯
     ÅÍ°¡ Åë°úÇÏÁö ŸÊŽÂ °æ¿ìÀÔŽÏŽÙ.
<pre>
  % stty cs8 -istrip parenb
</pre>
     ·Î Å͹̳ΠŒ³Á€À» 8ºñÆ®°¡ Åë°úÇϵµ·Ï žÂÃß°í ŽÙœÃ ÇØ ºžŒŒ¿ä.
 <li> 0xc7xe1µîµîÀž·Î ³ª¿ÀŽÂ °æ¿ì<br>
     ·ÎÄÉÀÏ Œ³Ä¡°¡ ÀßžøµÇŸúœÀŽÏŽÙ. 1ºÎÅÍ ŽÙœÃ ÇØ ºžŒŒ¿ä.
</ul>

<h3>»çÁ·</h3>

LC_CTYPE¿Ü¿¡ LC_COLLATEžŠ Á€ÀÇÇÒ Œö ÀÖœÀŽÏŽÙ. ÀÌ¿¡ ŽëÇØŒ­ŽÂ colldef(1)ÀÇ
žÅŽºŸó ÆäÀÌÁöžŠ Âü°íÇÏžé µÇŽÂµ¥, 2¹ÙÀÌÆ®ÀÇ °æ¿ì Ÿî¶»°Ô µÇŽÂÁö¿¡ ŽëÇÑ ¿¹ÁŠ°¡
ŸøŸîŒ­ Ÿî·Á¿òÀ» °Þ°í ÀÖœÀŽÏŽÙ. ŸøŸîµµ º° ºÒÆíÇÑ Á¡Àº ŸøœÀŽÏŽÙžž.<p>

œÇÁŠ·Î LC_CTYPEÀÇ Á€ÀÇ¿¡Œ­ Áß¿äÇÑ °ÍÀº ÃÖÈÄÀÇ ÄÚµåŒÂ 3ÀÇ ºÎºÐÀÔŽÏŽÙ. ÀÌ ºÎºÐžž
0xa1-0xfe±îÁö·Î Á€ÀÇÇÏžé ±×Žë·Î ÇÑ±Û Ãâ·ÂÀÌ °¡ŽÉÇÏ°Ô µÇŽÂ±º¿ä. Ÿî¶»°Ô ž»ÇÏÀÚžé
ŸÕºÎºÐÀÇ Á€ÀÇŽÂ °ÅÀÇ ÇÊ¿ä°¡ ŸøŽÙŽÂ ž»ÀÔŽÏŽÙ. ±×°É Ÿîµð¿¡ Ÿ²°Ô µÇŽÂÁöŽÂ Àß
žðž£°ÚÁöžž, ÀÏŽÜÀº Á€œÄÀž·Î ÇÏŽÂ Á€ÀÇ°¡ ÇÊ¿äÇØŒ­ ±×·ž°Ô Á€ÀÇÇßœÀŽÏŽÙ.
¿Ö vi¿Í °°Àº µ¥¿¡Œ­ŽÂ codeset 3žž ÇÊ¿äÇÑÁö Àß žðž£°Ú±º¿ä. :<

<hr>
<i>Last Modified 97/1/16</i>
<p>
<center>
[<a href="http://jazz.snu.ac.kr">Jazz</a> |
 <a href="http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker">Choi Jun-Ho</a>|
 <a href="index.html">FreeBSD for Korean!</a>]
</center>

</body>
</html>

--------------167E2781446B--


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 21:48:58 1997
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To: Don Yuniskis <dgy@rtd.com>
Subject: Re: GCC cross compiles 
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers)
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:00:40 MST."
		<199702200100.SAA10423@seagull.rtd.com> 
References: <199702200100.SAA10423@seagull.rtd.com>  
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:48:46 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
Message-Id: <E0vxRN8-0006t8-00@rover.village.org>
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In message <199702200100.SAA10423@seagull.rtd.com> Don Yuniskis writes:
:     However, am I correct in assuming that one can safely build
: *cross* compilers under reasonably recent FBSD releases using
: the latest GCC sources (i.e. host=FBSD2.1R, target=68k)?
: Has anyone done this and had decent success?

I've done this with the raw gcc/binutils distribution, with the cygnus
release and the OpenBSD tree.  Forget it with the gcc/binutils in the
freebsd tree, they are intel only.  However, once you get the full
sources, it generally is as simple as doing ./configure
--target=mips-unknown-openbsd2.0 --host=i386-unknown-freebsd2.2
followed by a make.  You'll need to arrange for include files and
libraries, but that isn't too hard.

Check out http://www.village.org/villagers/imp/build.html for
something I wrote up a while ago on how to do this for Linux/MIPS.

Warner

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 21:51:18 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:42:51 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
References: <Mutt.19970219221145.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> <Pine.BSF.3.95.970219145658.13262C-100000@opus.cts.cwu.edu>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970219145658.13262C-100000@opus.cts.cwu.edu>; from Chris Timmons on Feb 19, 1997 15:08:08 -0800
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As Chris Timmons wrote:

> While you are on the topic of syslog, I've noticed that if a -current or
> 2.2 system dies without a normal graceful shutdown, the next startup's
> syslogd finds /var/run/log and won't bind to the syslog port with a
> 'socket already in use' error or similar.  Could /etc/rc safely remove
> /var/run/log cruft ahead of starting syslogd? 

Are you sure your /etc/rc is up to date?

rm -f /var/run/log
echo ' syslogd.';                       syslogd

That's from 2.2's /usr/src/etc/rc.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 21:51:35 1997
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To: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Failed mail: unknown user] 
Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, james@wgold.demon.co.uk,
        hackers@freebsd.org, dufault@hda.com
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:52:38 PST."
		<199702200052.QAA00662@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> 
References: <199702200052.QAA00662@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU>  
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:51:11 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <199702200052.QAA00662@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Satoshi Asami writes:
: Really?  I think drives have their own cache, and if they have write
: buffering turned on, they will happily return "write complete" when
: they are only holding data in the buffer.

Yes.  Most modern drives have this feature.

: I know Seagate ST15150WC (old Barracuda 4) had the write buffer
: disabled, while Quantum 34300WC (Atlas 4) had it enabled.  If you
: really want to make sure you write through to the platter, either get
: one of those that don't have it turned on or turn it off by youself
: (I heard it's in one of the SCSI mode pages).

Don't know if you can turn it off, but a friend at Conner once told me
that they use the drive's momentum to power the rest of the drive long
enough to flush out the cache to media, and then they engage the
brakes.

Warner

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 21:51:35 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:45:13 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: syslog filter (was Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature)
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As Michael Hancock wrote:

(syslogd piping to program)

> This is very cool.  I wish I had this for some of the SunOS sites we're
> nursing too.
> 
> Will this make it into 2.2?

``That depends.''  If no other problems appear with it, i can
integrate it into -current tomorrow.  (It experienced two coding
errors so far, a filedescriptor leak, and one spurious kill() that
shot syslogd in the foot sometimes.)  I would pull it into 2.2 after
living for about one week in -current.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 21:51:49 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:47:25 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: hmm
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As Joe Greco wrote:

> > > 	char *p;
> > > 
> > > 	if ((p = argv[0]) == NULL)
> > > 		errx(2,"test: argc is zero");
> 
> Sanity check?  I can't think of any cases where this would happen, but
> maybe some kernel god would correct me.

I think you could start a program without giving it an argv[0] if you
use exec*() directly.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 21:52:15 1997
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From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
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Cc: james@wgold.demon.co.uk
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As Satoshi Asami wrote:

> Really?  I think drives have their own cache, and if they have write
> buffering turned on, they will happily return "write complete" when
> they are only holding data in the buffer.

That's another matter.  ``Shit happens.'' :) Some of them are said to
even write back their cache if power fails, using the spindle's
momentum to generate the required power.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 22:08:20 1997
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From: Stephen McKay <syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au>
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Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net> wrote:

>> > 	char *p;
>> > 
>> > 	if ((p = argv[0]) == NULL)
>> > 		errx(2,"test: argc is zero");
>
>Sanity check?  I can't think of any cases where this would happen, but
>maybe some kernel god would correct me.

It is convention that argv[0] contain the program name, and that argc >= 1,
but this is not enforced by the system.

Consider a.c:

    #include <stdio.h>
    #include <unistd.h>

    int main(int argc, char **argv)
	{
	execv(argv[1], NULL);
	perror(argv[1]);
	return 1;
	}

and b.c:

    #include <stdio.h>
    #include <err.h>

    int main(int argc, char **argv)
	{
	char *p;

	if ((p = argv[0]) == NULL)
	    errx(2,"test: argc is zero");

	printf("argv[0] = '%s'\n", p);
	return 0;
	}

Then run them:

	$ ./a ./b
	: test: argc is zero
	$

Read /usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c and you will find that __progname is
carefully set to a zero length string (rather than left null) when there
is no program name.  Thus errx() prints the error message rather than
dumping core. :-)  The leading ': ' is a big bogus.  Might fix that...

Stephen.

PS For the security conscious among us, passing no arguments is one of the
dirty tricks you can play on setuid programs to see if they will do anything
interesting for you.  Along with closing all file descriptors, setting
pending alarms, reducing all the resource limits to zero, etc, etc.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 22:21:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:20:09 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: 2.2 Stability (was Re: another victim..)
In-Reply-To: <199702200134.TAA09095@solaria.sol.net>
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Joe Greco wrote:

> > I've been running 2.2 since it was "current" with apache for 5 months and
> > it's *never* fallen over.  The longest uptime was around 65 days, but that
> > was because it was taken down for kernel updates. 
> > 
> > The web serving load isn't very high though, httpd is generating about
> > 30MB of logs every month. 
> 
> I don't think I've seen any instances of 2.2 truly falling over, either,
> although there are times where it seems to "pause" during heavy VM activity
> that doesn't happen with 2.1.X.  It's been hard to quantify precisely.
> 
> I am not trying to say that 2.2 is bad, I'm just saying that its track
> record (no matter how good) is not very long.

I didn't think you were actually, I was just adding a data point.

Your advice is sound, I live on the edge a little bit picking out stable
builds and installing them in production sites that handle moderate loads.

Regards,


Mike


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 22:50:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:26:04 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: chris@bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: 2.2-Anything Install Failure
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As Chris Coleman wrote:

> I removed the Video card and replaced it with a Trident card, and the
> flashing went away, but it still won't install.
> the probe gets to APM powermanagement disabled, not probed.

Boot with -v, this will enable a few more messages.

> I just skipped the visual config stuff.

Why?  You are supposed to disable all the devices you don't have.  You
are at least supposed to do so if you're running into installation
troubles.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 22:51:56 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:48:30 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers)
Subject: Re: another dup alloc panic.
References: <199702200053.TAA29513@lakes.water.net>
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As Thomas David Rivers wrote:

>  Although this was personal mail - I'm taking the liberty of reflecting
> it to freebsd-hackers so it will go into the archives...

(David G:)
> > 
> >    It's really weird that you're seeing these panics so often. 

> >                                                           I've not seen
> > this on wcarchive (19 disk drives, all very busy), and I haven't seen it
> > on a local news server (which gets a full news feed and delivers news
> > to dozens of other sites). ...it just seems really strange that this
> > problem is hitting you so often when I've *never* seen it happen.
> 
>  Yes - that's been the paradox ever since it started....

Well, maybe Thomas, we probably have only seen this happening on 386
CPUs so far?  This would explain why only few people see it.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 22:52:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:33:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Samplonius <tom@sdf.com>
To: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
cc: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>,
        "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>,
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Subject: Re: 2.2 Stability (was Re: another victim..)
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On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Michael Hancock wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Joe Greco wrote:
> 
> > On the other hand, 2.1.X has been proven by time and fire to be a STABLE
> > and RELIABLE OS.  My Web server is setting site uptime records:
> > 
> >  2:39PM  up 195 days, 23:22, 1 user, load averages: 0.21, 0.18, 0.15
> 
> I've been running 2.2 since it was "current" with apache for 5 months and
> it's *never* fallen over.  The longest uptime was around 65 days, but that
> was because it was taken down for kernel updates. 
>
> The web serving load isn't very high though, httpd is generating about
> 30MB of logs every month. 

  That isn't very much.  I've got a 2.1-stable system running for 114 days
that accumulates a 150 MB of logs every month, and web serving isn't even
its primary service:  DNS and mail are.  It provides DNS service for over
400 domains. 

> Regards,
>
> 
> Mike Hancock

Tom
  
> > In the meantime, there are those of us who are beating the snot (sorry
> > for the Karlism) out of 2.2, and it is looking very promising.  Hopefully
> > it can "prove" itself and take over for 2.1.7 within the next year.  But
> > I am not going to put all of MY eggs in the 2.2 basket, until I am 
> > confident that the basket is strong, and was well built, based on firsthand
> > experience.
> > 
> > That's why you might wish to install 2.1.7.  It's basically a matter of
> > faith and reliability.
> > 
> > If you're looking for a desktop OS?  Then the picture might be different.
> > 2.2 should offer enough of an incentive to go that way that you may choose
> > to install 2.2.
> > 
> > ... Joe
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator			      jgreco@ns.sol.net
> > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI			   414/342-4847
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 22:57:53 1997
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> > I haven't been able to get Anything above 2.1.6-RELEASE to install on our
> > server.  It is a Pentium 100mhz with a Diamond Speedstar Pro SE
> > and it just flashes little characters when i try to install.
> 
> Yep, saw your PR.  I've assigned it to Soren, our syscons hacker.
> If anybody can fix it (and if anybody broke it), it's Soren. :-)
> 
> 					Jordan

Jordan:

I'm glad you got someone cracking down on syscons...  while he's at 
it, could you have him look at the screen blanker?


I set a blanktime of 300 in /etc/sysconfig.  After which, my server 
would crash if left unattended for 5 minutes after booting.  
(or 5 minutes after the last time I touched the keyboard).  I set the 
blanktime back to NO, and all is well again.

go figure...  just another sleepless night for me...  (an hour of 
frustration, trot back up to work, sit with the machine for an hour 
and all seems well.  Go back home, and it's doing it again.  Back to 
work, back home.  Some serious head scratching... BINGO, must be
 that damn blanktime thing... :)


Laters,

Troy
--
Troy Settle <st@i-Plus.net>
Network Administrator, iPlus Internet Services
http://www.i-Plus.net

( Stuff I said does not reflect the company I work  )
( for unless I'm speaking on behalf of said company )

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 22:58:04 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:43:01 +1000 (EST)
From: Stephen McKay <syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au>
Message-Id: <199702200643.QAA07183@ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au>
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au, j@uriah.heep.sax.de
Subject: Re: ports/2756: top causes segmentation fault
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Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net> wrote:

>> As Wolfram Schneider wrote:
>> 
>> > Yes, we should import top(1) into the base system (src/contrib/top).
>> > The top sources are only 120KB. 
>> 
>> Are there any contradictionary opinions?
>
>I think it would be a functional addition and would not object, although it
>is bloat in the general sense.

Everyone loves top!  I certainly use it far more than I use tcl and perl
and both of them are in the base system.  They seem to be a bit bigger than
top, too. :-)

Stephen.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:15:03 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:17:24 +1000 (EST)
From: Stephen McKay <syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au>
Message-Id: <199702200717.RAA08748@ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au>
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au> wrote:

>Other traffic, including larger files, moves fine.  This file stops after
>about 4M.

Not a very astounding suggestion, but what does tcpdump tell you?

Stephen.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:17:27 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
In-Reply-To: <199702200717.RAA08748@ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au> from Stephen McKay at "Feb 20, 97 05:17:24 pm"
To: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:47:07 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,
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Stephen McKay stands accused of saying:
> Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> >Other traffic, including larger files, moves fine.  This file stops after
> >about 4M.
> 
> Not a very astounding suggestion, but what does tcpdump tell you?

TBH, I didn't try.  I couldn't try it today, because I was sucking the
xemacs distfile (the machine at this end of the link is my workstation,
and I can't live with the behaviour of an old (2.0.5) xemacs on 2.2; random
sig10s and all that it seems.)

> Stephen.

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:20:36 1997
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From: Stephen McKay <syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au>
Message-Id: <199702200713.RAA08383@ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au>
To: Andre Albsmeier <Andre.Albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
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Andre Albsmeier <Andre.Albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de> wrote:

>I am very happy with the IRIX 5.3 syslog. It supports the syntax
>
>*.debug;kern.none;user.none     |/var/syslog/log-filter         /var/syslog/all
>
>which pipes all messages through /var/syslog/log-filter and this script
>decides what to do with them. So I get my squid, socks, slip, etc. logs
>all in different files and can for example ignore some messages with
>the same level and priority depending on the process that sends them.

Shouldn't we add better log filtering to syslogd instead?  Its function
should be to accept messages, discard unnecessary ones, and log the required
ones to the appropriate log files.  If it is not up to this task, and we
add a shell filter escape, isn't that the same thing as saying that syslogd
is bogus and useless?

Add some new syntax supporting arbitrary regular expressions.  That should
be enough for everyone.

Stephen.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:23:22 1997
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From: John Hay <jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
Message-Id: <199702200720.JAA19121@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
Subject: Re: Another sleepless night.... (Was: 2.2-Anything Install Failure)
In-Reply-To: <199702200656.BAA00417@Radford.i-Plus.net> from Troy Settle at "Feb 20, 97 02:09:20 am"
To: rewt@i-Plus.net
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:20:09 +0200 (SAT)
Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org
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> > > I haven't been able to get Anything above 2.1.6-RELEASE to install on our
> > > server.  It is a Pentium 100mhz with a Diamond Speedstar Pro SE
> > > and it just flashes little characters when i try to install.
> > 
> > Yep, saw your PR.  I've assigned it to Soren, our syscons hacker.
> > If anybody can fix it (and if anybody broke it), it's Soren. :-)
> > 
> > 					Jordan
> 
> Jordan:
> 
> I'm glad you got someone cracking down on syscons...  while he's at 
> it, could you have him look at the screen blanker?
> 
> 
> I set a blanktime of 300 in /etc/sysconfig.  After which, my server 
> would crash if left unattended for 5 minutes after booting.  
> (or 5 minutes after the last time I touched the keyboard).  I set the 
> blanktime back to NO, and all is well again.
> 

Now this smells like old lkm's to me. When you update your kernel you
should also update your /lkm directory.

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:26:18 1997
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>, jamie@inna.net (Jamie Bowden),
        toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:20:15 PST."
             <199702200320.TAA09613@rah.star-gate.com> 
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:23:07 -0800
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> I got to agree with Terry on this one and anything that we can do
> to import drivers or sub-systems is well critical. I am thinking

"ESTD"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:40:41 1997
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From: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Message-Id: <199702200739.IAA04720@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Subject: Re: hmm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970219142947.405n-100000@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Feb 19, 97 02:31:03 pm"
To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:39:32 +0100 (MET)
Cc: top@sonic.cris.net, audit-bin@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > It seems a bit strange to me. Just like the first part of the line
> > underneath btw:
> > 	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
> > 	    ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> that makes sure that the strlen(p) > 0... you wouldn't want to access
> p[-1] would you?? 
> 
> hope this helps... ttyl..
> 

But p points to argv[0]. According to me that is always non-empty.

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:51:38 1997
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:50:14 -0800 (PST)
From: John-Mark Gurney <jmg@nike.efn.org>
Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.win.tue.nl>
cc: audit-bin@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: hmm
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On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Guido van Rooij wrote:

> > > It seems a bit strange to me. Just like the first part of the line
> > > underneath btw:
> > > 	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
> > > 	    ^^^^^^^^^^
> > 
> > that makes sure that the strlen(p) > 0... you wouldn't want to access
> > p[-1] would you?? 
> > 
> > hope this helps... ttyl..
> > 
> 
> But p points to argv[0]. According to me that is always non-empty.

but as someone pointed out... with a direct exec it can be otherwise...  I
just wrote a couple programs that proved this...  here's the output:
number args: 3
argv[0} len(0):
argv[1} len(6): parama
argv[2} len(6): paramb

basicly the program I ran did:
char *strings[] = { "", "parama", "paramb", 0};
execv("dump", strings);

and dump was a program that did basicly:
for(i=0;i<argc;i++)
    printf("argv[%d} len(%d): %s\n", i, strlen(argv[i]), argv[i]);

so it is possible...

and thanks for making me do the research... always helpful to learn by
experience this sort of thing... :)  ttyl...

John-Mark

gurney_j@efn.org
http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/
Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954   (FreeBSD Box)

Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:54:44 1997
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From: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Message-Id: <199702200752.IAA04908@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Subject: Re: hmm
In-Reply-To: <199702200739.IAA04720@gvr.win.tue.nl> from Guido van Rooij at "Feb 20, 97 08:39:32 am"
To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:52:44 +0100 (MET)
Cc: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, top@sonic.cris.net, audit-bin@FreeBSD.ORG,
        FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Guido van Rooij wrote:
> > > It seems a bit strange to me. Just like the first part of the line
> > > underneath btw:
> > > 	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
> > > 	    ^^^^^^^^^^
> > 
> > that makes sure that the strlen(p) > 0... you wouldn't want to access
> > p[-1] would you?? 
> > 
> > hope this helps... ttyl..
> > 
> 
> But p points to argv[0]. According to me that is always non-empty.

Hmm...After rereading this, I think I have it wrong :-(). That's what you get
with quick answers. The check is indeed necessary.

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Feb 19 23:56:58 1997
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From: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702200756.SAA03260@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
Subject: Re: another dup alloc panic.
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970220074830.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Feb 20, 97 07:48:30 am"
To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:56:32 +1100 (EST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
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>>  Although this was personal mail - I'm taking the liberty of reflecting
>> it to freebsd-hackers so it will go into the archives...
>
>(David G:)
>> > 
>> >    It's really weird that you're seeing these panics so often. 
>
>> >                                                           I've not seen
>> > this on wcarchive (19 disk drives, all very busy), and I haven't seen it
>> > on a local news server (which gets a full news feed and delivers news
>> > to dozens of other sites). ...it just seems really strange that this
>> > problem is hitting you so often when I've *never* seen it happen.
>> 
>>  Yes - that's been the paradox ever since it started....
>
>Well, maybe Thomas, we probably have only seen this happening on 386
>CPUs so far?  This would explain why only few people see it.

I reported that I saw it recently on a Pentium (SCSI disk on an NCR
controller).  This is with 2.2 from a couple of weeks ago.  I've only
seen it once so far and it happened while repopulating a partition that
had just been newfs'd.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 00:00:54 1997
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To: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
cc: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>, hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
In-Reply-To: <199702200150.SAA25151@rocky.mt.sri.com>
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On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Nate Williams wrote:

> [ Again ]
> 
> Terry, watch me, and repeat this on your keyboard.
> 
> 'I was wrong, you are correct.'
> 
> [ You look more foolish all the time ]

But I don't think he was wrong... if you've ever had to program the win32
API using the 'thunking' crap, I think you'd realize that what Terry said
was exactly correct. As an unfortunate developer that's had to write one
project too many for win95 (using 16-bit DLL's) I now know the whole
16-bit subsystem of winblows95 inside out. Of course, there are several
points of view when looking at Terry's comments (which he excels at :-)
but if you read it carefully you'll see his comments are perfectly correct
- although somewhat off topic.. Win95 obviously can run 16-bit drivers,
but it has to go through significant effort to do so (altought not as much
as WOW on WinNT).

-Mark

P.S. I'm an 'Enterprise' MSN developer.

> 
> > I am typing this from a telnet running from a Windows95 box.  I am an
> > MSDN level II developer.
> 
> So am I.  It's irrelevant, as well as all of your other 'claims to
> fame'.  We're talking about what Win95 upgrades do, not what kind of
> developer you are.  You stated that Win95 doesn't use DOS devices when
> an upgrade occurs, and you're wrong.  Plain wrong.  You can argue about
> how you are misinformed, misaligned, misunderstood, but in fact you are
> plain mistaken.  Wrong.
> 
> > I can not speak for your experiences, except to say that they are
> > quite bizarre, and not in line with my own.  Given that I had access
> > to the Windows95 Alpha and have been installing the thing over and
> > over (I did work on FS drivers -- duh) since around December of 1994,
> 
> And so have I.  *SO* WHAT!!!!!  It's irrelevant.
> 
> > I *probably* have installed it more than you have.  And I'm telling
> > you that your experiences are not my experiences, and I can not
> > explain how you arrived at yours.
> 
> I don't have to explain it, only I can say with absolute and completey
> knowledge that you're wrong.
> 
> C'mon, I *really* want to see you admit you're wrong instead of changing
> the subject to something like how many times you've installed it and
> never seen it happen, or what you read, or something else.  You're
> simply *wrong*
> 
> 
> Nate
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 00:27:33 1997
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To: hackers@freebsd.org
Cc: brian@utell.co.uk
Subject: Screen flickering
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:50:00 +0000
From: Brian Somers <brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>
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I've just set up FreeBSD (~-current) on a laptop, and to my surprise,
*everything* works - apm, pcmcia (3c589c doesn't hang), audio, cd, X
- well done guys....

There was only one small problem - it's now fixed (avoided), and I'm
starting to wonder if I've been seing this problem for a *long* time
on my main machine (and just assuming I have a dodgy monitor).

Essentially, the syscons screen "flickers" probably every couple of
seconds on average, and only with "vidcontrol -c destructive".  From
what I can figure, the "while (!(inb(crtc_addr+6)&8)) ;" bit in
syscons.c doesn't work as expected (although removing it makes
things a *lot* worse)....

Is anyone actively responsible for this code ?  Or is it worth my
while to delve deeper ?

FWIW, the laptop has a Chips & Tech 65545 chipset.  My main machine,
which hasn't flickered yet, has had both a Hercules Graphite
Terminator and a #9...... oops - just got a flicker in single-user
mode :(  Guess it is a lousy monitor after all :(

-- 
Brian <brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>, <brian@freebsd.org>
      <http://www.awfulhak.demon.co.uk/>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 00:39:25 1997
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To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
References: <199702200206.MAA14275@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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From: Zach Heilig <zach@blizzard.gaffaneys.com>
Date: 20 Feb 1997 02:39:55 -0600
In-Reply-To: Michael Smith's message of Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:36:45 +1030 (CST)
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Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au> writes:

> The file is on BSD box 1.  BSD box 1 has a modem on a serial port.
> BSD box 2 has another mode on a serial port.  BSD box 2 dials BSD
> box 1, connects via SLIP.  BSD box 2 attempts to transfer the File
> Of Death from BSD box 1.  Note that the file can come from systems
> further away (BSD box 1 is a router), the transfer will still fail.

> Other traffic, including larger files, moves fine.  This file stops
> after about 4M.

Yep, I think I know the problem... I thought I was wrong when you
mailed me that they were connected by serial ports, but now that you
mention that there are modems on the loop, it's fairly probable that
there is a sequence of bytes that need escaping (and these occur about
4Meg into the linux tar file).  The modem is probably dropping or
corrupting those bytes, and corrupting the packet (this might have
something to do with the compression software in one of the modems).
Other packets would still make it through though.

Run tcpdump on the slip interface, and that should verify what's
happening.

BTW, what brand of modems are those?

-- 
Zach Heilig (zach@blizzard.gaffaneys.com) | ALL unsolicited commercial email
Support bacteria -- it's the only         | is unwelcome.  I avoid dealing
form of culture some people have!         | with companies that email ads.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 00:46:00 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:40:51 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702200840.TAA27123@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu
Subject: Re: hmm
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>But p points to argv[0]. According to me that is always non-empty.

It's whatever the exec'ing process put there.  Perhaps NULL or "".
A NULL argv[0] isn't actually an arg.  It is the NULL terminator
after the args.  argc == 0 in this case.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 01:04:47 1997
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From: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam)
Subject: Re: GCC cross compiles
To: dgy@rtd.com (Don Yuniskis)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:02:20 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702200100.SAA10423@seagull.rtd.com> from Don Yuniskis at "Feb 19, 97 06:00:40 pm"
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> Don Yuniskis wrote:
>     However, am I correct in assuming that one can safely build
> *cross* compilers under reasonably recent FBSD releases using
> the latest GCC sources (i.e. host=FBSD2.1R, target=68k)?
> Has anyone done this and had decent success?
Yes, but be sure to get the cross-gcc patches at ftp.cygnus.com.
For example:

	cd gcc-2.7.2
	patch -p1 < ../gcc-cross-patch-2.7.2
	sh configure --host=i386-unknown-freebsd	\
		--target=m68k-coff	\
		--with-gnu-as	\
		--with-gnu-ld	\
		--prefix=/usr/cross

and so on...  Be warned that gcc takes a *very long* time to build
as it makes libraries for almost all possible variants of the M68K
family with and without floating point.

Regards,
				Hans

-- 
H. Zuidam                        E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com
Brand Innovators B.V.            P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377
de Pinckart 54                   5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands
5674 CC Nuenen                   Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 01:09:37 1997
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From: Søren Schmidt <sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Message-Id: <199702200907.KAA02474@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Re: pcvt/132 columns
In-Reply-To: <199702191833.LAA13401@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 19, 97 11:33:47 am"
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:07:15 +0100 (MET)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hm@kts.org,
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In reply to Terry Lambert who wrote:
> > > Look at the "Linux GGI" code (run a search on AltaVista for it, or
> > > look for "Generic Graphic Interface" in the Linux groups on DejaNews).
> > > It is *exactly* the "super console" design that never got done in
> > > the BSD camps after it was first discussed in fall of 1993.
> > 
> > I've looked at it, and I'm not that impressed. It tires to solve the
> > problems we all know and love, but its still VERY green.
> 
> I agree.  I was responding to the idea Mike put forward:

WOW! Terry agree's with me !!
 
> > Besides this I still think we could need a simple system that will
> > run on std VGA/EGA/CGA/HGA, and provide a simple graphics interface
> > for sysadm utils and the like, but being REAL small on resource
> > usage (yes I have been working on this for a looooong time, and
> > have most of whats needed, just no real use for it yet).
> > This can be done with the support we allready have, including
> > switching vtys etc etc....
> 
> If we look at the current console driver as our "default" SVGA driver,
> then we have this support already.  The missing piece is the component
> seperation of emulation and VT management from mode and access type.
> This seperation would be a win in any event, even if we never took
> it any further.

This is underways...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 01:16:48 1997
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From: Andre Albsmeier <Andre.Albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>
Message-Id: <199702200916.KAA07489@server.us.tld>
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
In-Reply-To: <199702200713.RAA08383@ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au> from Stephen McKay at "Feb 20, 97 05:13:17 pm"
To: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:16:31 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
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> Andre Albsmeier <Andre.Albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de> wrote:
> 
> >I am very happy with the IRIX 5.3 syslog. It supports the syntax
> >
> >*.debug;kern.none;user.none     |/var/syslog/log-filter         /var/syslog/all
> >
> >which pipes all messages through /var/syslog/log-filter and this script
> >decides what to do with them. So I get my squid, socks, slip, etc. logs
> >all in different files and can for example ignore some messages with
> >the same level and priority depending on the process that sends them.
> 
> Shouldn't we add better log filtering to syslogd instead?  Its function
> should be to accept messages, discard unnecessary ones, and log the required
> ones to the appropriate log files.  If it is not up to this task, and we
> add a shell filter escape, isn't that the same thing as saying that syslogd
> is bogus and useless?
> 
> Add some new syntax supporting arbitrary regular expressions.  That should
> be enough for everyone.

Yes, that's right. I just wanted to show the interest in a flexible syslogd.
The implementation is a different thing.

	-Andre

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 01:41:06 1997
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From: Søren Schmidt <sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Message-Id: <199702200942.KAA02525@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
In-Reply-To: <199702200150.BAA11591@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from Brian Somers at "Feb 20, 97 01:50:00 am"
To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:42:46 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@utell.co.uk
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In reply to Brian Somers who wrote:
> I've just set up FreeBSD (~-current) on a laptop, and to my surprise,
> *everything* works - apm, pcmcia (3c589c doesn't hang), audio, cd, X
> - well done guys....
> 
> There was only one small problem - it's now fixed (avoided), and I'm
> starting to wonder if I've been seing this problem for a *long* time
> on my main machine (and just assuming I have a dodgy monitor).
> 
> Essentially, the syscons screen "flickers" probably every couple of
> seconds on average, and only with "vidcontrol -c destructive".  From
> what I can figure, the "while (!(inb(crtc_addr+6)&8)) ;" bit in
> syscons.c doesn't work as expected (although removing it makes
> things a *lot* worse)....
> 
> Is anyone actively responsible for this code ?  Or is it worth my
> while to delve deeper ?

Yep, syscons is my baby, and I know of this problem, it is not
easily fixable however :(
The problem is that reprogramming the chargen produces "noise"
on the screen, thats the reason for trying to do the update in
the vertical retrace period. The busy loop is actually REAL
bad news in a timeshare environment, but there is not much else
to do. The problem you are seing is probably due to an interrupt
getting in the way of the normaly hidden update..

> FWIW, the laptop has a Chips & Tech 65545 chipset.  My main machine,
> which hasn't flickered yet, has had both a Hercules Graphite
> Terminator and a #9...... oops - just got a flicker in single-user
> mode :(  Guess it is a lousy monitor after all :(

Hmm, the problem is present on all videocards, except a few that
can update the chargen without flicker. But in any case a good
stable monitor will certainly hide the problem...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 01:41:38 1997
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From: Andre Albsmeier <Andre.Albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>
Message-Id: <199702200941.KAA07749@server.us.tld>
Subject: How to prevent unknown users from writing my NFS fs?
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:41:17 +0100 (MET)
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Hi,

I had posted this to -questions a while ago, but there was nobody who
could help me. So I try it here again as I think this also might be
an interestiong -hackers issue.

How can I prevent an NFS exported filesystem to be written by users
that are not known by the server? My problem is: I export a filesystem
/people to some PCs running PCNFS on our network. Users there typically
have homedirectories which contain a directoy pub that is 1777 so
that others can write there. However, if you don't pass a username
to PCNFS you are logged in as nobody (uid -2) and can still write to
the pub directories. As a result there are files created that have a
very high uids:

-rw-rw-r--  1 4294967294  andre  1115 Feb 17 10:04 test

This confuses quotacheck which runs endlessly (see also PR 2325).

A solution could be to prevent that uids that are unknown by the server
are not allowed to write to the fs. Or, to prevent special uids to
write the fs. I have checked the exports manpage but have no idea
how this could be done..

Any help is greatly appreciated...

Thanks
	-Andre


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 01:48:40 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:49:51 +0100
From: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
References: <199702200150.BAA11591@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>
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Brian Somers (brian) ecrit/writes:
> 
> Essentially, the syscons screen "flickers" probably every couple of
> seconds on average, and only with "vidcontrol -c destructive".  From
> what I can figure, the "while (!(inb(crtc_addr+6)&8)) ;" bit in
> syscons.c doesn't work as expected (although removing it makes
> things a *lot* worse)....

	Got the same thing, except it's when I move the mouse on 
	the console. Config is:

	2.2-Beta
	Acer 950C P75 / 24 Mb, 800x600 DSTN -- Chips & Tech 65545

	The screen flickers when I move the mouse in console mode
	(Moused).

	Just for the record, this machine's PCCARD  only started working when
	I applied the patches for  PS/2 Keyboard !!

	And then, moused won't work with the PS/2 mouse - only with
	serial mice.


-- 
							-- Phil

-[ Philippe Regnauld   /   Systems Administrator   /    regnauld@prosa.dk ]-
-[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E       PGP Key: finger regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 02:49:18 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:42:49 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702201042.VAA30639@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
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>Essentially, the syscons screen "flickers" probably every couple of
>seconds on average, and only with "vidcontrol -c destructive".  From
>what I can figure, the "while (!(inb(crtc_addr+6)&8)) ;" bit in
>syscons.c doesn't work as expected (although removing it makes
>things a *lot* worse)....

The timing is sometimes interfered with by interrupts.

The hardware is designed to be polled as follows:

	1. Disable CPU interrupts.  Don't worry about losing several
	   thousand serial interrupts while interrupts are disabled.
	2. Loop until the retrace bit is not set.
	3. Loop until the retrace bit is set.  Since interrupts are
	   disabled, the previous test of the retrace bit was done
	   less than 5 usec ago.  Since the bit was previously not
	   set, the video retrace must have begun less than 5 usec
	   ago.  Thus there is almost a full retrace period available
	   for step 4.
	4. Program the `sparkly' registers.
	5. Enable interrupts.

Disabling interrupts for a long time is unacceptable for a multitasking
OS.  The problem can be handled "right" if the video card can generate
vertical retrace interrupts:

	1. Make the vertical retrace interrupt handler a "fast" interrupt
	   handler so that it has a low latency and can't be interrupted.
	   Don't use too many other "fast" interrupt handlers, or the
	   interrupt latency might be too high.
	2. Program the sparkly registers in the vertical retrace interrupt
	   handler.  Do this in less than 20 usec or someone will complain
	   that the interrupt latency is too high.

Otherwise, the best that can be done is probably something like:

	1. Loop until the retrace bit is not set, recording the current
	   interrupt count before each test.
	2. Loop until the retrace bit is set, recording the current
	   interrupt from before each test whenever the loop continues.
	3. Disable interrupts.
	4. If the current interrupt count is different from the one
	   before the test that found the retrace bit not set, then
	   we must have been interrupted.  Enable interrupts and go to
	   step 1 in this case.
	5. Program the `sparkly' registers.  Do this in less than 20
	   usec or someone will complain that the interrupt latency is
	   too high.
	6. Enable interrupts.

Busy-waiting for a long time like this (average almost 1/70 seconds)
is also unacceptable for a multitasking OS.  This method also takes a
lot of code.  It can probably be improved at the cost of even more code
by recording timestamps instead of interrupt counts.  Then it could tell
that it was only interrupted for 50 usec (say), so there must be plenty of
time before the retrace completes, so the "go to step 1" step is unnecessary.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 03:01:00 1997
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From: Peter Dufault <dufault@hda.com>
Message-Id: <199702201055.FAA02640@hda.hda.com>
Subject: Re: drive write caches
In-Reply-To: <199702200052.QAA00662@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from Satoshi Asami at "Feb 19, 97 04:52:38 pm"
To: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 05:55:07 -0500 (EST)
Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, james@wgold.demon.co.uk,
        hackers@FreeBSD.org, dufault@hda.com
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>  * >  - if the OS tells me it has a successful write through the
>  * >    disk device, can I rely on:
>  * > 
>  * >    a) the data is on the platter
>  * 
>  * It is.  Since physio(9) waits for the completion, you should be
>  * notified of any lower-level errors.  Note that this is _unlike_ with
>  * the block devices, where writing happens asynchronously, so the kernel
>  * did already declare the write operation as successful by the time it
>  * notices an error.
> 
> Really?  I think drives have their own cache, and if they have write
> buffering turned on, they will happily return "write complete" when
> they are only holding data in the buffer.

This is the deferred error that you can get a system console message
about - it means there was an error for a transfer that already
returned a successful completion.  I believe the way to handle this properly
is to issue a SYNCHRONIZE CACHE command at the right place and then
handle any deferred errors that come back as a result.  This
would require putting a hook in the file system code someplace
to do that sync / fixup.

The page to turn it off is the caching page (page 8):

# Caching page:
0x08 {
	{Reserved} *t5
	{WCE} t1
	{MF} t1
	{RCD} t1
	{Demand Retention Priority} t4
	{Write Retention Priority} t4
	{Disable Pre-fetch Transfer Length} i2
	{Minumum Pre-fetch} i2
	{Maximum Pre-fetch} i2
	{Maximum Pre-fetch Ceiling} i2
}

WCE is write cache enable.  I've just checked and two of my disks
(from Rodney, Rod, if you're out there) have the write cache disabled.

Peter

-- 
Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com)   Realtime Machine Control and Simulation
HD Associates, Inc.               Voice: 508 433 6936

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 03:06:04 1997
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From: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)

 * > Really?  I think drives have their own cache, and if they have write
 * > buffering turned on, they will happily return "write complete" when
 * > they are only holding data in the buffer.
 * 
 * That's another matter.  ``Shit happens.'' :)

I'm not sure what you mean here by "another matter".  Somebody asked
if the data is on the platter as soon as the write returns, so I said
that's not necessarily the case depending on the disk's electronics
(options).

 * 						Some of them are said to
 * even write back their cache if power fails, using the spindle's
 * momentum to generate the required power.

That's nice to hear. :)

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 04:02:34 1997
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Message-Id: <199702201204.NAA02849@ravenock.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
In-Reply-To: <199702201042.VAA30639@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from Bruce Evans at "Feb 20, 97 09:42:49 pm"
To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:04:02 +0100 (MET)
Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org, brian@utell.co.uk
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In reply to Bruce Evans who wrote:
 
> Disabling interrupts for a long time is unacceptable for a multitasking
> OS.  The problem can be handled "right" if the video card can generate
> vertical retrace interrupts:
> 
> 	1. Make the vertical retrace interrupt handler a "fast" interrupt
> 	   handler so that it has a low latency and can't be interrupted.
> 	   Don't use too many other "fast" interrupt handlers, or the
> 	   interrupt latency might be too high.
> 	2. Program the sparkly registers in the vertical retrace interrupt
> 	   handler.  Do this in less than 20 usec or someone will complain
> 	   that the interrupt latency is too high.

I'd like to do it this way, but lots of the crappy VGA cards thats
out there (and often its the same ones that produces most of
the annoing jitter) doesn't support an interrupt, and some only
allows using NMI.
However it is quite easy to implement, so.....
 
> Busy-waiting for a long time like this (average almost 1/70 seconds)
> is also unacceptable for a multitasking OS.  This method also takes a
> lot of code.  It can probably be improved at the cost of even more code
> by recording timestamps instead of interrupt counts.  Then it could tell
> that it was only interrupted for 50 usec (say), so there must be plenty of
> time before the retrace completes, so the "go to step 1" step is unnecessary.

I dont think this is the way to go, its much too complicated to be worht
it. I even have a couble of cards that sometimes "forgets" to flip the
status bits on retrace, but they do generate an interrupt :(
I guess I should be looking at implementing support for using the 
interrupt if its there....

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 04:29:49 1997
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	(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA218451766; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:29:26 +1100
From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
To: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:29:25 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <19970220013902.53279@usn.blaze.net.au> from "David Nugent" at Feb 20, 97 01:39:02 am
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In some mail from David Nugent, sie said:
> 
> I'm currently working on a network server that needs to use local
> creditials on a remote connection, and if that fails, to issue a
> "connection refused".

You can't do this (using sockets).

I don't quite understand how you want to use the credentials...the
description seems confusing.  Can you put it in TCP/IP terms ? :)

Darren

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 04:38:07 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:34:43 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702201234.XAA00491@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: bde@zeta.org.au, sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
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>> 	1. Make the vertical retrace interrupt handler a "fast" interrupt
>> 	   handler so that it has a low latency and can't be interrupted.
>> 	   Don't use too many other "fast" interrupt handlers, or the
>> 	   interrupt latency might be too high.
>> 	2. Program the sparkly registers in the vertical retrace interrupt
>> 	   handler.  Do this in less than 20 usec or someone will complain
>> 	   that the interrupt latency is too high.
>
>I'd like to do it this way, but lots of the crappy VGA cards thats
>out there (and often its the same ones that produces most of
>the annoing jitter) doesn't support an interrupt, and some only
>allows using NMI.
>However it is quite easy to implement, so.....

It's not easy.  Multiple interrupts per driver are unusual and not
supported by config.  Fast interrupt handlers are unusual and must
be programmed carefully.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 05:29:15 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:22:16 +1100
From: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
To: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Cc: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
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On Feb 02, 1997 at 11:29:25PM, Darren Reed wrote:
> > I'm currently working on a network server that needs to use local
> > creditials on a remote connection, and if that fails, to issue a
> > "connection refused".
> 
> You can't do this (using sockets).

Hmm, the manpage seems to suggest otherwise. See below.


> I don't quite understand how you want to use the credentials...the
> description seems confusing.  Can you put it in TCP/IP terms ? :)

Sorry, just the remote address, as determined by accept(). I don't
want or need network probes finding the server, which is why I'd
like an attempted connection from anyone but specific ip addresses
to get "connection refused", as though there was nothing there.
The protocol in question will do challenge/key and encryption, but
this is just to prevent probes from seeing it as a possible target
in the first place.

Anyway, the manpage for accept(2) states:

  One can obtain user connection request data without confirming the con-
  nection by issuing a recvmsg(2) call with an msg_iovlen of 0 and a non-
  zero msg_controllen, or by issuing a getsockopt(2) request.  Similarly,
  one can provide user connection rejection information by issuing a
  sendmsg(2) call with providing only the control information, or by call-
  ing setsockopt(2).

Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, this is precisely what I'd like
to do. I just can work out how to do it. :-)

FWIW, the connections will exchange user accounting information;
the server being basically a database server, and the clients
will either be read-only or allow transactions as well. Hence the
need for a fairly tight way of accepting connections and use of
key-based encryption.


Regards,

David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
Voice +61-3-9791-9547  Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507  3:632/348@fidonet
davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 05:39:57 1997
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
To: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:36:59 +1100 (EDT)
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In some mail from David Nugent, sie said:
> 
> On Feb 02, 1997 at 11:29:25PM, Darren Reed wrote:
> > > I'm currently working on a network server that needs to use local
> > > creditials on a remote connection, and if that fails, to issue a
> > > "connection refused".
> > 
> > You can't do this (using sockets).
> 
> Hmm, the manpage seems to suggest otherwise. See below.
> 
> 
> > I don't quite understand how you want to use the credentials...the
> > description seems confusing.  Can you put it in TCP/IP terms ? :)
> 
> Sorry, just the remote address, as determined by accept(). I don't
> want or need network probes finding the server, which is why I'd
> like an attempted connection from anyone but specific ip addresses
> to get "connection refused", as though there was nothing there.
> The protocol in question will do challenge/key and encryption, but
> this is just to prevent probes from seeing it as a possible target
> in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, the manpage for accept(2) states:
> 
>   One can obtain user connection request data without confirming the con-
>   nection by issuing a recvmsg(2) call with an msg_iovlen of 0 and a non-
>   zero msg_controllen, or by issuing a getsockopt(2) request.  Similarly,
>   one can provide user connection rejection information by issuing a
>   sendmsg(2) call with providing only the control information, or by call-
>   ing setsockopt(2).
> 
> Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, this is precisely what I'd like
> to do. I just can work out how to do it. :-)

Try calling accept() with the host you want to accept from, rather
than INADDR_ANY.

What does it say before that ?  A connection is ESTABLISHED before it
comes back via accept().

What does Stevens have to say on this topic ?

Darren

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 05:43:44 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:29:39 +0100
To: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@dimaga.com>
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org
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At 09:42 PM 2/20/97 +1100, Bruce Evans wrote:
>Disabling interrupts for a long time is unacceptable for a multitasking
>OS.  The problem can be handled "right" if the video card can generate
>vertical retrace interrupts:
>
>	1. Make the vertical retrace interrupt handler a "fast" interrupt
>	   handler so that it has a low latency and can't be interrupted.
>	   Don't use too many other "fast" interrupt handlers, or the
>	   interrupt latency might be too high.
>	2. Program the sparkly registers in the vertical retrace interrupt
>	   handler.  Do this in less than 20 usec or someone will complain
>	   that the interrupt latency is too high.
>
>Otherwise, the best that can be done is probably something like:

Nope.  If there is a *timer* interrupt available, you can use it to create
a vertical blanking interrupt by tweaking start point and delay.  'Nuff said?



Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 05:52:55 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:48:12 +1100
From: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
To: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: "connection refused"
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On Feb 02, 1997 at 12:36:59AM, Darren Reed wrote:
> >   One can obtain user connection request data without confirming the con-
> >   nection by issuing a recvmsg(2) call with an msg_iovlen of 0 and a non-
> >   zero msg_controllen, or by issuing a getsockopt(2) request.  Similarly,
> >   one can provide user connection rejection information by issuing a
> >   sendmsg(2) call with providing only the control information, or by call-
> >   ing setsockopt(2).
> > 
> > Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, this is precisely what I'd like
> > to do. I just can work out how to do it. :-)
> 
> Try calling accept() with the host you want to accept from, rather
> than INADDR_ANY.

Hmm. Then I'll need multiple sockets, since there may be more
than one remote host. I guess that is feasible given that it
only moves the placement of fork(). But it also means leaving
around more processes just for enquiry.

> What does it say before that ?  A connection is ESTABLISHED before it
> comes back via accept().

Ok. Then recvmsg() should be used without (instead of) accept()?


Regards,

David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
Voice +61-3-9791-9547  Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507  3:632/348@fidonet
davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 06:07:24 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:04:17 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702201404.BAA02379@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: bde@zeta.org.au, eivind@dimaga.com
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
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>>Otherwise, the best that can be done is probably something like:
>
>Nope.  If there is a *timer* interrupt available, you can use it to create
>a vertical blanking interrupt by tweaking start point and delay.  'Nuff said?

Well, there isn't a timer interrupt available, and keeping a timer
interrupt in sync would require large code and/or large runtime overheads.

For extra credit, use the standard timer to provide interrupts at HZ Hz,
(normally 100), the screen refresh rate, and whatever is requested by
acquire_timer_0() (which should be a multiple of 100 Hz <= 16000 Hz).
The HZ Hz interrupt must not have significantly more drift or jitter
than it does now.  Well, there isn't a timer interrupt available :-).

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:28:02 1997
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From: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>
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Subject: Re: if_de bug found!
To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 10:27:47 CST
Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, matt@lkg.dec.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
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> >I'll submit a PR shortly. This might be a 2.2 candidate, if the if_de
> >driver in 2.2 has the same workaround. David, can you check ?
> 
> Does this fix the -AC problem?
> 
> Will something that lets use use -AC cards in 2.1.7 be made available? 

2.1.7 installed just fine (a bit to my suprise) with a new SMC 10/100
EtherPower card, at 10Mbps.  Couldn't test 100Mbps because the wiring
back here is only Cat3 right now.

... Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Greco - Systems Administrator			      jgreco@ns.sol.net
Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI			   414/342-4847

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:31:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:30:37 +0300 (MSK)
From: "Maxim A. Bolotin" <max@rnd.runnet.ru>
To: Stefan Esser <se@FreeBSD.org>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: Acer ALTOS 7000 instalation problem.
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OK, Here's what I have with controller pci0

FreeBSD 2.2-970205-GAMMA #0: Wed Feb 19 19:41:06 MSK 1997
    max@altos.rnd.runnet.ru:/usr/src/sys/compile/ALTOS
Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock ... i586 clock: 66668126 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193174 Hz
CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION not specified - using default frequency
CLK_USE_I586_CALIBRATION not specified - using old calibration method
CPU: Pentium (66.67-MHz 586-class CPU)
  Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0x515  Stepping=5
  Features=0x1bf<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,MCE,CX8>
real memory  = 33554432 (32768K bytes)
avail memory = 30474240 (29760K bytes)
eisa0: <ACR1a01 (System Board)>
Probing for devices on the EISA bus
ahc0: <Adaptec aic7770 SCSI host adapter> at 0x9c00-0x9cff irq 11
ahc0: on eisa0 slot 9
ahc0: Using Level Sensitive Interrupts
ahc0: aic7770 <= Rev C, Twin Channel, A SCSI Id=7, B SCSI Id=7, 4 SCBs
ahc0: Reseting Channel B
ahc0: Reseting Channel A
ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done
ahc0: Probing channel A
ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle
ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 10.0MHz, offset = 0xf
(ahc0:0:0): "MICROP 4110-09NB_Nov18F TN0F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2
sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1002MB (2053880 512 byte sectors)
sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 2428 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 93 sectors/track
ahc0: target 1 synchronous at 10.0MHz, offset = 0xf
(ahc0:1:0): "MICROP 4110-09NB_Nov18F TN0F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2
sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 1002MB (2053880 512 byte sectors)
sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 2428 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 93 sectors/track
ahc0: target 4 synchronous at 10.0MHz, offset = 0xf
(ahc0:4:0): "MICROP 4110-09NB_Nov18F TN0F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2
sd2(ahc0:4:0): Direct-Access 1002MB (2053880 512 byte sectors)
sd2(ahc0:4:0): with 2428 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 93 sectors/track
ahc0: Probing Channel B
ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle
(ahc0:5:0): "MATSHITA CD-ROM CR-503 1.0f" type 5 removable SCSI 2
cd0(ahc0:5:0): CD-ROM can't get the size
pcibus_setup(1):	mode 1 addr port (0x0cf8) is 0x81000800
pcibus_setup(2):	mode 2 enable port (0x0cf8) is 0x00
pcibus_setup(2a):	mode2res=0x0e (0x0e)
pcibus_setup(2a):	now trying mechanism 2
pcibus_check:	device 0 1 2 3 is there (id=00000021)
Probing for devices on PCI bus 0:
	configuration mode 2 allows 16 devices.
vga0 <Display device> rev 0 int _ irq ?? on pci0:3
vga1 <Display device> rev 0 int _ irq ?? on pci0:7
vga? <Display device> mirrored on pci0:11
vga? <Display device> mirrored on pci0:15
Probing for devices on the ISA bus:
sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard
sc0: VGA color <6 virtual consoles, flags=0x0>
ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 5 on isa
ed0: address 00:c0:df:81:30:50, type NE2000 (16 bit) 
ed1 at 0x340-0x35f irq 10 on isa
ed1: address 00:40:05:1a:fd:45, type NE2000 (16 bit) 
ed2 at 0x320-0x33f irq 9 on isa
ed2: address 00:40:05:17:e5:9d, type NE2000 (16 bit) 
sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa
sio0: type 16450
sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa
sio1: type 16450
lpt0 at 0x3bc-0x3c3 irq 7 on isa
lpt0: Interrupt-driven port
lp0: TCP/IP capable interface
psm0: disabled, not probed.
fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa
fdc0: NEC 765
fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in
npx0 on motherboard
npx0: INT 16 interface
imasks: bio c0000840, tty c00306ba, net c00306ba
BIOS Geometries:
 0:03e93f20 0..1001=1002 cylinders, 0..63=64 heads, 1..32=32 sectors
 1:03e93f20 0..1001=1002 cylinders, 0..63=64 heads, 1..32=32 sectors
 0 accounted for
Device configuration finished.
Considering FFS root f/s.
configure() finished.
IP packet filtering initialized, divert disabled, logging disabled

And Now I work, but with floppy not.
	Regards,
		Max.
-
Rostov State University   Computer Center
Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476
Russia, RUNNet               max@run.net.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:32:38 1997
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Message-Id: <199702201632.DAA19850@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
In-Reply-To: <87enebeuqs.fsf@murkwood.gaffaneys.com> from Zach Heilig at "Feb 20, 97 02:39:55 am"
To: zach@blizzard.gaffaneys.com (Zach Heilig)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 03:02:14 +1030 (CST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
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Zach Heilig stands accused of saying:
> 
> Yep, I think I know the problem... I thought I was wrong when you
> mailed me that they were connected by serial ports, but now that you
> mention that there are modems on the loop, it's fairly probable that
> there is a sequence of bytes that need escaping (and these occur about
> 4Meg into the linux tar file).  The modem is probably dropping or
> corrupting those bytes, and corrupting the packet (this might have
> something to do with the compression software in one of the modems).
> Other packets would still make it through though.

That's an interesting thought.

> Run tcpdump on the slip interface, and that should verify what's
> happening.

I'll try to do that; it can be painful waiting for the leading 3M to
go through, so I'll experiment with cutting most of it off.

> BTW, what brand of modems are those?

One is a Dataplex DPX225 (Rockwell 14k4 chipset), the other is a Banksia
MF6 (Rockwell 28k chipset).  We've been using them for this link for about
two years now; this is the first time I've met this sort of problem.

> Zach Heilig (zach@blizzard.gaffaneys.com) | ALL unsolicited commercial email

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:35:59 1997
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Message-Id: <199702201629.JAA15210@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:29:38 -0700 (MST)
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> > I got to agree with Terry on this one and anything that we can do
> > to import drivers or sub-systems is well critical. I am thinking
> 
> "ESTD"

"Elf Shall This Do"?

Parles vou Englais?

Por Favor... Que?

Could you repeat that?

Yakuri, Kudasai?


					Danke,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:37:24 1997
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On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:

> You should update /etc/rc by hand after a 'make world'.


You're right.  I should have at least peeked in /usr/src/etc before
writing :(

-Chris


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:40:42 1997
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> > Terry, watch me, and repeat this on your keyboard.
> > 
> > 'I was wrong, you are correct.'
> > 
> > [ You look more foolish all the time ]
> 
> But I don't think he was wrong... if you've ever had to program the win32
> API using the 'thunking' crap, I think you'd realize that what Terry said
> was exactly correct.

What Terry *originally* stated was that Win95 doesn't use 16-bit DOS
drivers when you do an upgrade.  He was wrong.

Now, he changed the subject (to not be wrong) so that it became an issue
of how 16-bit drivers are setup, and to tell us about the books he's
read, the kernel hacking he's done, and everything else, but the fact of
the matter was that the Win95 upgrade in cases uses the existing 16-bit
DOS drivers w/out the upgrader desiring it.


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:49:10 1997
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To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jamie@inna.net, toneil@visigenic.com,
        jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:29:38 MST."
             <199702201629.JAA15210@phaeton.artisoft.com> 
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:45:20 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> > "ESTD"
> 
> "Elf Shall This Do"?
> 
> Parles vou Englais?
> 
> Por Favor... Que?
> 
> Could you repeat that?

Easier Said Than Done.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:52:55 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702201649.JAA15306@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:49:25 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702200150.SAA25151@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 19, 97 06:50:56 pm
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> So am I.  It's irrelevant, as well as all of your other 'claims to
> fame'.  We're talking about what Win95 upgrades do, not what kind of
> developer you are.  You stated that Win95 doesn't use DOS devices when
> an upgrade occurs, and you're wrong.  Plain wrong.  You can argue about
> how you are misinformed, misaligned, misunderstood, but in fact you are
> plain mistaken.  Wrong.

Define "when an upgrade occurs".  If you mean "in the default
configuration after an upgrade has been completed and the machine
rebooted to invoke the 'runonce' registry entries created by install
and run in real mode as part of the post-install", yes, I said that.


> I don't have to explain it, only I can say with absolute and completey
> knowledge that you're wrong.

Your faith is uplifting, but misplaced. 8-).


> C'mon, I *really* want to see you admit you're wrong instead of changing
> the subject to something like how many times you've installed it and
> never seen it happen, or what you read, or something else.  You're
> simply *wrong*

It isn't going to happen until I see a Windows95 install not rename
config.sys and autoexec.bat, or until I disassemble another io.sys
and see a string reference to "autoexec.dos" or "config.dos".


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 08:56:51 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702201653.JAA15324@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: ZIP ppa
To: matra@diemme.it (matra)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:53:51 -0700 (MST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.93.970120212513.62C-100000@bridget.devlab.org> from "matra" at Jan 20, 97 09:27:22 pm
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> I have a parallel port ZIP drive working perfectly under linux. How can
> i use the ZIP under freeBSD? 
> 
> Please , reply to me! This prob is the last thing between me and freeBSD!

Obtain the FreeBSD parallel port driver written by Nicolas Souchu.
His mail address is <Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr>.

The driver can be obtained from:

>       http://www.prism.uvsq.fr/~son/ppa3.html {FreeBSD ->} 
>       http://www.prism.uvsq.fr/~son/ppa3.c {the source}


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 09:00:16 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:59:54 -0800
From: "M.R.Murphy" <mrm@Mole.ORG>
Message-Id: <199702201659.IAA06173@meerkat.mole.org>
To: Andre.Albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
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>
> >I am very happy with the IRIX 5.3 syslog. It supports the syntax
> >
> >*.debug;kern.none;user.none     |/var/syslog/log-filter         /var/syslog/all
> >
> >which pipes all messages through /var/syslog/log-filter and this script
> >decides what to do with them. So I get my squid, socks, slip, etc. logs
> >all in different files and can for example ignore some messages with
> >the same level and priority depending on the process that sends them.
>
> Shouldn't we add better log filtering to syslogd instead?  Its function
> should be to accept messages, discard unnecessary ones, and log the required
> ones to the appropriate log files.  If it is not up to this task, and we
> add a shell filter escape, isn't that the same thing as saying that syslogd
> is bogus and useless?
>
> Add some new syntax supporting arbitrary regular expressions.  That should
> be enough for everyone.
>

I'd like to, once again, be a curmudgeon and disagree. I'd prefer
syslogd to just do _one thing_ well: reliably log the messages I
configure it to log. If I want them filtered, well, that's what
awk, sed, grep, perl, ..., the tools of a toolset-oriented system
are for.

Please don't build the electric coffee pot controller into the FPU.
(for the humor-impaired of us, me being one from time to time, that
means don't get creeping featurism). Keep it small and simple.

BTW, on a system that logs a reasonable amount of messages and
supports 4000+ users,

$ du -k -s /var/log
11348   /var/log

That's a weeks worth of compressed logs.

--
Mike Murphy  mrm@Mole.ORG  +1 619 598 5874
Better is the enemy of Good

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 09:15:17 1997
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Failed mail: unknown user]
To: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:10:56 -0700 (MST)
Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, james@wgold.demon.co.uk,
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>  * It is.  Since physio(9) waits for the completion, you should be
>  * notified of any lower-level errors.  Note that this is _unlike_ with
>  * the block devices, where writing happens asynchronously, so the kernel
>  * did already declare the write operation as successful by the time it
>  * notices an error.
> 
> Really?  I think drives have their own cache, and if they have write
> buffering turned on, they will happily return "write complete" when
> they are only holding data in the buffer.

In general, this is a track buffer, if it exists at all, and the
premature return is contingent on the momentum of the disk being
able to power the disk to do the write.

The drive isn't permitted to lie... if it says the write made it to
stable storage, it either did, or will.

The one window for error here is if it gets a write error, and the
drive is out of replacement sectors, making the error unrecoverable
(in the general case) or if it has a write error, and the replacement
of the affected area would require a seek (and the drive does not
have enough momentum to both power the write and to run the voice
coil to move the heads -- or it does, but the replacements are bad
too).

If you want guarantees, it can't be on, or you must do read-after-
write after the flush timeout.


> I know Seagate ST15150WC (old Barracuda 4) had the write buffer
> disabled, while Quantum 34300WC (Atlas 4) had it enabled.  If you
> really want to make sure you write through to the platter, either get
> one of those that don't have it turned on or turn it off by youself
> (I heard it's in one of the SCSI mode pages).

For the ones that support it, it is (at least the one I had had this).
I don't think any drive supports it which does not power the writes in
case of supply failure.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 09:24:29 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702201720.KAA15442@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:20:49 -0700 (MST)
Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970220104951.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk> from "Philippe Regnauld" at Feb 20, 97 10:49:51 am
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> > Essentially, the syscons screen "flickers" probably every couple of
> > seconds on average, and only with "vidcontrol -c destructive".  From
> > what I can figure, the "while (!(inb(crtc_addr+6)&8)) ;" bit in
> > syscons.c doesn't work as expected (although removing it makes
> > things a *lot* worse)....
> 
> 	Got the same thing, except it's when I move the mouse on 
> 	the console. Config is:
> 
> 	2.2-Beta
> 	Acer 950C P75 / 24 Mb, 800x600 DSTN -- Chips & Tech 65545
> 
> 	The screen flickers when I move the mouse in console mode
> 	(Moused).

This comes from writing non-VRAM (dual ported) card RAM with pixel
values at a time when the raster beam is active, instead of waiting
for vertical retrace.

The typical fix is to queue draw requests to a queue, and then drive
the queue off of IRQ 2, which you dedicate to the video cards vertical
retrace interrupt.

Alternately, you can buy a modern video card, since it will have VRAM,
and writing while the raster is reading won't cause a problem.  8-).


> 	Just for the record, this machine's PCCARD  only started working when
> 	I applied the patches for  PS/2 Keyboard !!

You need to specifically bug-report this; if it is repeatable elsewhere,
it's a bad thing.  8-(.


> 	And then, moused won't work with the PS/2 mouse - only with
> 	serial mice.

Look at the device node... I suspect you have created the wrong type
(non-blocking vs. blocking).


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 09:34:08 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:09:34 +0100
From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Cc: junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr
Subject: Re: Korean Locale definition - ko_KR.EUC.src
References: <330BCC2C.41C6@jazz.snu.ac.kr>
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According to Choi Jun Ho:
> Please somebody reply to me(address is in signature) whether my
> locale definition will be included in FreeBSD-current, or when it
> will be, because I didn't subscribed to FreeBSD-hackers mailing list...

Thanks. You may wish to submit a PR (use the send-pr command) to make sure
it won't be lost just in case.
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
  FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 09:42:01 1997
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Message-Id: <199702201736.KAA15486@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:36:39 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, jamie@inna.net, toneil@visigenic.com,
        jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702200350.OAA15154@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 20, 97 02:20:42 pm
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> > For what it's worth, *NOW* is the time for BSD to look at fully
> > supporting the Win32 API.  Linux too, for that matter.
> 
> Er, yeah.  You have ABI documentation that's vaguely accurate and
> legit?  You are willing to fund this?  (Or you know someone else who
> is?)
> 
> And lastly, is your tongue turning black? (Name of the Rose)

I caught your Umberto Eco reference... I'm not a total barbarian.  ;-).

The ABI documentation is fairly public; there are a number of European
companies that have it; so does Sun, so does DEC.  There are a *huge*
number of books that have it.

As to funding, are you asking if I'm willing to work on this?  Well,
I'm willing to do the COM implementation, which is the underlying
technology for DirectX, ActiveX, etc., assuming that FreeBSD ever
switches to ELF.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 09:50:42 1997
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M.R.Murphy writes:

> >
> >  But - not to damper this at all; I'm thrilled to examine just about any 
> > avenue you care to consider... and if you have any ideas to try I'd
> > be happy to undertake them!!!  _Any_ Ideas :-)
> >
> 
> I haven't been following this closely enough. What are the
> hardware configurations of the two machines where you're seeing
> the problems.
> 
> --
> Mike Murphy  mrm@Mole.ORG  +1 619 598 5874

 Both are running 2.1.6.1.

 
 The news/mail server:
	Intel 386dx-33 with an Intel 387
	8 megs of memory
	hercules monochrome monitor
	IDE controller and Maxtor ~1gig IDE drive
	1.44 floppy
	(Runs 24 hours a day, handles 2 modem lines, mail, news, SL/IP.)

 The "reproduce the problem" machine (a machine I scrounged together 
 just for debugging this problem:
	Intel 386dx-33 with an Intel 387
	12 megs of memory
	hercules monochrome monitor
	AHA1542B and a Micropolis ~500meg (slow/old) SCSI drive
	1.44 floppy


	- Dave Rivers -

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:48:37 -0700 (MST)
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
In-Reply-To: <19970221004812.00805@usn.blaze.net.au>
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, David Nugent wrote:

> On Feb 02, 1997 at 12:36:59AM, Darren Reed wrote:
> > >   One can obtain user connection request data without confirming the con-
> > >   nection by issuing a recvmsg(2) call with an msg_iovlen of 0 and a non-
> > >   zero msg_controllen, or by issuing a getsockopt(2) request.  Similarly,
> > >   one can provide user connection rejection information by issuing a
> > >   sendmsg(2) call with providing only the control information, or by call-
> > >   ing setsockopt(2).
> > > 
> > > Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, this is precisely what I'd like
> > > to do. I just can work out how to do it. :-)

See the paragraph before thst:

     For certain protocols which require an explicit confirmation,
     such as ISO or DATAKIT, accept() can be thought of as merely
     dequeueing the next connection request and not implying
     confirmation.  Confirmation can be implied by a normal read
     or write on the new file descriptor, and rejection can be
     implied by closing the new socket.

I think this was an addition to 4.4BSD (for ISO stuff?) and TCP
doesn't use it.  

> > What does it say before that ?  A connection is ESTABLISHED before it
> > comes back via accept().
> 
> Ok. Then recvmsg() should be used without (instead of) accept()?

A connection is established before you call accept() (or before it
unblocks, if you called it earlier).  When you call listen() all
the connection establishment is done; anything you could setup
would need to be done before listen(), since after that the normal
processing automatically competes the three-way TCP handshake before
it is made available to accept().


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 09:57:41 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702201731.KAA15469@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:31:53 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702200206.MAA14275@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 20, 97 12:36:45 pm
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> > This was recently discussed on -current, but the file was on a Linux
> > box.  Make sure TCP extensions are off on both ends; you probably have
> > broken hardware somewhere in between which is lighting all the bits.
> 
> The file is on BSD box 1.  BSD box 1 has a modem on a serial port.
> BSD box 2 has another mode on a serial port.  BSD box 2 dials BSD box
> 1, connects via SLIP.  BSD box 2 attempts to transfer the File Of
> Death from BSD box 1.  Note that the file can come from systems
> further away (BSD box 1 is a router), the transfer will still fail.
> 
> Other traffic, including larger files, moves fine.  This file stops after
> about 4M.

Your modem is looking for in-band data.  The file is (unfortunately)
providing it.

I guess the next question is whether or not the modem is looking on
purpose, or by accident, or as a result of a defect.

What flavors are the modems?

Is the receiving modem a US Robotics Courier/14.4 FaxModem, and the
sender a modem utilizing the Rockwell modem chipset?  If so, swap
the modems.  If the problem goes away, your US Robotics needs a
firmware update.

If one modem is an older modem with MNP (trellis encoding) turned on,
but is not a older MNP modem manufactured by Multitech, then it is
probably in violation of the MNP4 specification, and has enabled
in-band flow control whenever MNP is enabled in lieu of providing
sufficient buffer memory on board the modem, in order to underprice
the Multitech offerings (the initial non-Multitech MNP modems did
this as standard practice).

If the modems are Telebit Trailblazer's, Trailblazer+'s, or you are
going through a NetBlazer, then you should make sure "spoofing" is
disabled.  The older spoofing fails in the face of more recent additions
to the SLIP standard.  You should also check the status of S register
53 to make sure it is set correctly.


If you don't have specific knowledge of the hardware, the first step
would be to swap the modems, and go from there, to see if the problem
is unidirectional (in the host or in the client software), or if it
is that one of the modems can't transmit (or the other cannot recieve)
the particular byte stream.

Good luck; I'm afraid you'll need it...


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 09:59:39 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702201755.KAA15626@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:55:53 -0700 (MST)
Cc: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702201229.EAA09482@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Feb 20, 97 11:29:25 pm
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> > I'm currently working on a network server that needs to use local
> > creditials on a remote connection, and if that fails, to issue a
> > "connection refused".
> 
> You can't do this (using sockets).
> 
> I don't quite understand how you want to use the credentials...the
> description seems confusing.  Can you put it in TCP/IP terms ? :)

I believe he wants to vouchsafe the local credentials to the remote
system, and have that system proxy those credentials locally.  Like
NFS does, not like rlogin does.

You can't engage in vouchsafe unless you have a connection up to
transfer the proxy data over.  Once you have a connection up, you
can't refuse the connection, you can only close it.


One possibility would be to use identd (if you, as the server, trust
a host to provide credentials for local proxy, you can trust them
to run a non-hacked identd -- the level of trust is equivalent, as
the host could lie about credentials on the vouchsafe just as easily
as on the identd, if it were compromised).

To do this, you would get the connection request data without issuing
an accept.  This is highly irregular, so I don't know how much sample
code exists to do it... but what you do is call recvmsg() on the socket
you would have done the accept on, with a msg_iovlen of 0 and a
non-zero msg_controllen.

Using the information from the recvmsg(), you contact the remote
host's identd and get the socket creator's credential data.

If the credentials are not to your liking, you can explicitly reject
the connection using sendmsg(), with only the control information.

If you like the credentials, you can accept() normally, and proceed.

Obviously, you shouldn't implement this for identd.  8-).


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 10:26:36 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702201821.LAA15669@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:21:45 -0700 (MST)
Cc: mark@quickweb.com, nate@mt.sri.com, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702201640.JAA28151@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 20, 97 09:40:25 am
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> What Terry *originally* stated was that Win95 doesn't use 16-bit DOS
> drivers when you do an upgrade.  He was wrong.

What Terry originally stated was:

] Loading Win95 on a system will rename the "config.sys" and "autoexec.bat"
] to "config.dos" and "autoexec.dos" so that they will not be run by default.
] 
] You *must* have installed something that crapped in those two files
] and created them, as a side effect (maybe because it expected to be
] installed on Windows 3.1), OR you *must* have renamed the files back
] after the installation completed.
] 
] 
] Windows95 actually loads whatever you tell it to in config.sys or
] autoexec.bat... or, rather, "DOS 7.0" loads them.


What Terry said with regard to 16 bit drivers in particular came *after*
Nate said this was wrong:

] Nate says:
] >
] > You're wrong Terry.  The win31 -> win95 upgrade copies your autoexec and 
] > config files to .dos, and rems some of the old drivers (like msdex) out, 
] > but overall it will use the 16bit dos drivers happily.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
] 
] Not according to King and Schulman... it is well known that you must
] disable the PM disk drivers in order to use software that hooks the
] 16 bit disk interrupts.  For instance, LANtastic for Windows 3.x, a
] product of my current employer.

POINT 1:	The 16 bit disk interrupts can not be hooked
		successfully without disabling the Windows95 PM
		disk drivers.  This contravenes the claim indicated
		in Nate's last sentence above.

POINT 2:	LANtastic for Windows 3.x is well known to fail on
		Windows95 unless the PM disk drivers are disabled.
		This is a repeatable, concrete test which disproves
		the validity of Nate's claim.
		
] 
] Also, the autoexec.dos/config.dos are not used when the system is
] started, but autoexec.bat and config.sys are.  I know because it's
] where I load WinICE and the only IFS FSD (file system driver) for
] fixed disks ever written outside of Microsoft... by me and two other
] Artisoft engineers.

POINT 3:	The autoexec.dos and config.dos files are not used
		by the Windows95 boot process.  Nate *incorrectly*
		used the word "copied" in place of my claim of
		"renamed", and then went on to build a case using
		"copied" as a partially hidden assumption.

POINT 4:	I load WinICE in my autoexec.bat; each time I installed
		Windows95 (which was the upgrade, and therefore I had
		to install WFWG 3.11 first, thus creating an autoexec.bat
		and a config.sys to get my CDROM drive active for the
		install), I had to *recreate* the autoexec.bat, since
		it did not exist after the install over WFWG.  It is
		my (admittedly anecdotal, since Nate wasn't here to
		ride herd on me, nor was an officer of the court 8-))
		personal experience that the files were in fact *NOT*
		copied as Nate claims, but *renamed*.


I therefore maintain my claim that the user must have done something
outside the scope of a normal, default "upgrade" installation of
Windows95 in order to get the situation he describes.


> Now, he changed the subject (to not be wrong) so that it became an issue
> of how 16-bit drivers are setup, and to tell us about the books he's
> read, the kernel hacking he's done, and everything else, but the fact of
> the matter was that the Win95 upgrade in cases uses the existing 16-bit
> DOS drivers w/out the upgrader desiring it.

I have never seen this.  We have only *your* anecdotal evidence that
this occurs, while on the other side, we have *myself(, and *several
others*, anecdotal evidence that it does not.

In other words, we have nothing more than anecdotal evidence, insufficient
for you to obtain my "criminal conviction" of "wrongness".  On the other
hand, when we get to the "civil trial", there is a preponderance of
evidence, anecdotal though it may be, that I am "not guilty".


If you can cite a repeatable example, then fine.  If not, fine.  You
are getting too anal about a trivial issue for my tastes, in any case.

At best, you will be able to prove that if you stand on one foot,
rub your belly, and press F8 while installing Windows95, it will keep
16 bit drivers in the config.sys and (less likely) 16 bit driver loaders
in the autoexec.bat.  I will be happy to counter this particular argument,
if you can even make a case for it, with "don't do that, it's a bad idea,
for the reasons I have outlined in other postings".


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 10:33:47 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702201826.LAA15684@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:26:00 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jamie@inna.net,
        toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
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[ .. WIN32 API support ... ]

> Easier Said Than Done.

Most of the barriers are political, not technical:

o	Switch to ELF

o	Support segment coloring

o	Set VM hueristics for kernel memory based on segment coloring,
	including but not limited to handling kernel page faults for
	some types of code.

I'm willing to write the COM model support code for FreeBSD.  I might
even be willing to write a Registry (or LDAP directory) for class
identification, agregation, and configuration.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 10:37:56 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:37:20 +0100
From: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser)
To: max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin)
Cc: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser), hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Acer ALTOS 7000 instalation problem.
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On Feb 20, max@rnd.runnet.ru (Maxim A. Bolotin) wrote:
> OK, Here's what I have with controller pci0
> 
> Probing for devices on the EISA bus
> ahc0: <Adaptec aic7770 SCSI host adapter> at 0x9c00-0x9cff irq 11
> ahc0: on eisa0 slot 9

> pcibus_setup(1):	mode 1 addr port (0x0cf8) is 0x81000800
> pcibus_setup(2):	mode 2 enable port (0x0cf8) is 0x00
> pcibus_setup(2a):	mode2res=0x0e (0x0e)
> pcibus_setup(2a):	now trying mechanism 2
> pcibus_check:	device 0 1 2 3 is there (id=00000021)
> Probing for devices on PCI bus 0:
> 	configuration mode 2 allows 16 devices.
> vga0 <Display device> rev 0 int _ irq ?? on pci0:3
> vga1 <Display device> rev 0 int _ irq ?? on pci0:7
> vga? <Display device> mirrored on pci0:11
> vga? <Display device> mirrored on pci0:15
> Probing for devices on the ISA bus:

Ok, I see ...

Thanks for sending this message log!

The problem is, that EISA and PCI use overlapping port regions,
and for the probe code, it appears as if there really was a PCI
device in slot 3. The value read is valid, and while no device
with that ID exists, the code can't possibly know.

I've got an idea for another test, which would find that there
isn't really a PCI bus in your system. But that test will need
to write into EISA address space ports, and while I can restore
the values previously read, I can't be sure that the device has
not been confused by the test ...

As soon as I have a patch ready, you'll receive it for testing.

Regards, STefan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 10:41:43 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702201837.LAA15709@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
To: terry@phaeton.artisoft.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:37:29 -0700 (MST)
Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, mark@quickweb.com, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702201821.LAA15669@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 20, 97 11:21:45 am
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> At best, you will be able to prove that if you stand on one foot,
> rub your belly, and press F8 while installing Windows95, it will keep
> 16 bit drivers in the config.sys and (less likely) 16 bit driver loaders
> in the autoexec.bat.  I will be happy to counter this particular argument,
> if you can even make a case for it, with "don't do that, it's a bad idea,
> for the reasons I have outlined in other postings".

PS: If you can in fact prove this, I *will* admit that I was incorrect
about the Windows95 install process.

On the minus side:
-----------------

I will hedge by claiming that you had to go way off the beaten track
to confirm it, and that it is unreasonable to expect me (or any
*reasonable* person) to have travelled that same path.

I will further claim that your point is irrelevant, since even if you
are correct, many 16 bit drivers *still* do not work "happily" without
serious changes away from the Microsoft defined Windows95 default
configuration.


On the plus side:
-----------------

I am willing to locally repeat a Windows95 install which you claim
will function this way.  You should assume that it is an upgrade
install from Windows 3.11 or WFWG, and you must provide the files
which are left in the config.sys, since none of the files I already
have locally act this way.  This will remove any shred of deniability
on my part, if you are in fact correct.


I suppose this presumes that you are willing to go through all of this
effort just to have me repost the second three paragraphs of this
posting, with minor modifications to the first of the three.

Whatever blows your skirts up.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 10:42:08 1997
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Message-Id: <199702201840.NAA00331@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com>
To: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:40:26 -0500
From: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
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I didn't see a reply to this, so I figured I'd toss this answer in the mix...

Wouldn't /sbin/ipfw, and associated kernel options do what you wish? Then
you can build a set of source/destination hosts/network/ports that
will have access to the server socket in question.

Also, ipfw supports a connection refused vs. not bothering to respond. The
later is preferable if you really don't want someone to know the server
is there, rather than knowing the server is there and refusing connections
on that port (makes them more likely to go off to attack another machine
rather that trying to come up with newer ways to find a way in to your
firewalled machine).

	-Brian

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 11:27:38 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:00:53 -0800
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
From: "Tim Oneil" <toneil@visigenic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
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At 11:26 AM 2/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm willing to write the COM model support code for FreeBSD.  I might
>even be willing to write a Registry (or LDAP directory) for class
>identification, agregation, and configuration.

You can write it Terry, but does that mean we have to use it?? Kidding
aside though, have you taken a look at corba? I mean, is it the microsft
way or noway already??
If so, its just another fine standard mowed over by the ms jaggernaut.

-Tim


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 12:01:23 1997
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From: speth@scruz.net (James G. Speth)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:01:09 -0800
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Subject: 2.1.7-RELEASE broken?
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Good morning,

Last night I installed the 2.1.7-RELEASE of FreeBSD on a new pentium system,
and I've been getting all sorts of strange compiler errors since then.  Did
something in the compiler break in this release?

I've been trying to compile a file that compiles completely clean on our
other FreeBSD system running 2.1.0-RELEASE #4.  3 of 4 times I got internal
compiler errors.  The fourth time I got a clean compile, no errors at all.
Here is some of the error output:

Try 1:
cc -g -c billing.c
assertion "fragP->fr_offset >= 0" failed: file "/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/as/write.c"
, line 529
cc: Internal compiler error: program as got fatal signal 6
*** Error code 1
Stop.

Try 2:
cc -g -c billing.c
billing.c: In function `undo':
billing.c:3880: internal error--unrecognizable insn:
(jump_insn 155 153 156 (set (pc)
        (UnKnown Unknown)) -1 (nil)
    (nil))
cc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got fatal signal 6
*** Error code 1
Stop.

Try 3:
cc -g -c billing.c
billing.c: In function `undo':
billing.c:3880: internal error--unrecognizable insn:
(jump_insn 155 153 156 (set (pc)
        (UnKnown Unknown)) -1 (nil)
    (nil))
cc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got fatal signal 6
*** Error code 1
Stop.

Try 4:
cc -g -c billing.c
(compiled with no errors)


Thanks,
Jim


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 12:02:58 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:02:13 -0800 (PST)
From: John-Mark Gurney <jmg@nike.efn.org>
Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
cc: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
In-Reply-To: <19970221004812.00805@usn.blaze.net.au>
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, David Nugent wrote:

> Hmm. Then I'll need multiple sockets, since there may be more
> than one remote host. I guess that is feasible given that it
> only moves the placement of fork(). But it also means leaving
> around more processes just for enquiry.
> 
> > What does it say before that ?  A connection is ESTABLISHED before it
> > comes back via accept().
> 
> Ok. Then recvmsg() should be used without (instead of) accept()?

it seems that accept() does do what you want.....  directly from the
accept() man page:
For certain protocols which require an explicit confirmation, such as ISO
or DATAKIT, accept() can be thought of as merely dequeueing the next con-
nection request and not implying confirmation.  Confirmation can be im-
plied by a normal read or write on the new file descriptor, and rejection
can be implied by closing the new socket.

it seems you can accept() a conntection... verify were it is coming from
and then close and it will be rejected...  as it turns out this isn't
true...  (I just wrote a test program to test it)...

looks like either accept need to be fixed (to behave this way) or the docs
should be updated...

comments?

John-Mark

gurney_j@efn.org
http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/
Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) 

Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD 
(unix) 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 12:16:22 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:34:29 +0100
From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
References: <87enebeuqs.fsf@murkwood.gaffaneys.com> <199702201632.DAA19850@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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According to Michael Smith:
> > there is a sequence of bytes that need escaping (and these occur about
> > 4Meg into the linux tar file).  The modem is probably dropping or
> > corrupting those bytes, and corrupting the packet (this might have
> > something to do with the compression software in one of the modems).
> > Other packets would still make it through though.
> 
> That's an interesting thought.

I once found a Word document that we need to get through a async leased
line (with PPP) and that would panic the poor little Sun3 on the other side
*every time* we tried to FTP the file. Compressing it solved the problem...

-- 
Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
  FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 12:47:07 1997
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 07:46:13 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au,
        freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970220114101.348E-100000@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from "John-Mark Gurney" at Feb 20, 97 12:02:13 pm
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In some mail from John-Mark Gurney, sie said:
> 
> On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, David Nugent wrote:
> 
> > Hmm. Then I'll need multiple sockets, since there may be more
> > than one remote host. I guess that is feasible given that it
> > only moves the placement of fork(). But it also means leaving
> > around more processes just for enquiry.
> > 
> > > What does it say before that ?  A connection is ESTABLISHED before it
> > > comes back via accept().
> > 
> > Ok. Then recvmsg() should be used without (instead of) accept()?
> 
> it seems that accept() does do what you want.....  directly from the
> accept() man page:
> For certain protocols which require an explicit confirmation, such as ISO
> or DATAKIT, accept() can be thought of as merely dequeueing the next con-
> nection request and not implying confirmation.  Confirmation can be im-
> plied by a normal read or write on the new file descriptor, and rejection
> can be implied by closing the new socket.
> 
> it seems you can accept() a conntection... verify were it is coming from
> and then close and it will be rejected...  as it turns out this isn't
> true...  (I just wrote a test program to test it)...

What about if the socket accept() is using is non-blocking ?

Darren

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 12:57:45 1997
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Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: toneil@visigenic.com (Tim Oneil)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:39:02 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970220110052.0096a860@visigenic.com> from "Tim Oneil" at Feb 20, 97 11:00:53 am
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> >I'm willing to write the COM model support code for FreeBSD.  I might
> >even be willing to write a Registry (or LDAP directory) for class
> >identification, agregation, and configuration.
> 
> You can write it Terry, but does that mean we have to use it?? Kidding
> aside though, have you taken a look at corba? I mean, is it the microsft
> way or noway already??
> If so, its just another fine standard mowed over by the ms jaggernaut.

Name two vendors writing CORBA components which will work on
platforms based on their processor type rather than based on
their ABI.

CORBA is, unfortunately, a UNIX standard, in the classic sense
of the definition: a method of drawing a distinction between a
particular UNIX vendor and their competitors.  The purpose of
such standards is to segregate the marketplace.

COM, on the other hand, is being built for all major commercial
x86 platforms.  For example, Solaris x86 (download the demo from
http://www.sagus.com/prod-i~1/net-comp/dcom/dcomdown.htm).

If Dale Rogerson, author of "Inside COM", published by Microsoft
Press, is to be believed, one of these platforms is Linux.

But not FreeBSD.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 13:23:14 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:22:21 +1100
From: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
To: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Cc: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
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On Feb 02, 1997 at 07:46:13AM, Darren Reed wrote:
> In some mail from John-Mark Gurney, sie said:
> > > Ok. Then recvmsg() should be used without (instead of) accept()?
> > 
> > it seems that accept() does do what you want.....  directly from the
> > accept() man page:
> > For certain protocols which require an explicit confirmation, such as ISO
> > or DATAKIT, accept() can be thought of as merely dequeueing the next con-
> > nection request and not implying confirmation.  Confirmation can be im-
> > plied by a normal read or write on the new file descriptor, and rejection
> > can be implied by closing the new socket.

Yes, that's how I read it too, the first time. :)

> > it seems you can accept() a conntection... verify were it is coming from
> > and then close and it will be rejected...  as it turns out this isn't
> > true...  (I just wrote a test program to test it)...

As did I, and hence my question.

> What about if the socket accept() is using is non-blocking ?

FWIW, the behaviour is the same and results in "connection closed
by remote host" rather than "connection refused" as I would have
expected.


Regards,

David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
Voice +61-3-9791-9547  Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507  3:632/348@fidonet
davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 14:49:47 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:47:41 -0800 (PST)
From: John-Mark Gurney <jmg@nike.efn.org>
Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
cc: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
In-Reply-To: <199702202046.MAA13840@resnet.uoregon.edu>
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Darren Reed
wrote:

> > it seems you can accept() a conntection... verify were it is coming from
> > and then close and it will be rejected...  as it turns out this isn't
> > true...  (I just wrote a test program to test it)...
> 
> What about if the socket accept() is using is non-blocking ?

nope...  still doesn't behave like the man page says...  basicly I close
the connection immediately after... but I still get:
Connected to metriclient-2.uoregon.edu.
Escape character is '^]'.
Connection closed by foreign host.

so the connection is still getting opened all the way...

John-Mark

gurney_j@efn.org
http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/
Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954   (FreeBSD Box)

Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 15:03:19 1997
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From: Mark Mayo <mark@quickweb.com>
To: Tim Oneil <toneil@visigenic.com>
cc: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
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On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Tim Oneil wrote:

> At 11:26 AM 2/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >I'm willing to write the COM model support code for FreeBSD.  I might
> >even be willing to write a Registry (or LDAP directory) for class
> >identification, agregation, and configuration.
> 
> You can write it Terry, but does that mean we have to use it?? Kidding
> aside though, have you taken a look at corba? I mean, is it the microsft
> way or noway already??
> If so, its just another fine standard mowed over by the ms jaggernaut.

CORBA seems really cool. The problem right now is the cost of the IDL
compilers. I've been trying to do some CORBA stuff in Java, and there are
no free IDL compilers in the public domain as far as I can see.

Java might well be the best method of supporting CORBA on FreeBSD -
especially when all the neato thread-reentrant stuff is completed in
3.0/CURRENT. We should have a really nice java implementation. The kaffe
JIT is quite fast as well; it will be interesting to see how well Java on
FreeBSD will perform when all is said and done..

And yeah, DCOM just seems like a shitty CORBA to me - mowed over by the M$
jaggernaut indeed... Man why can't they use stuff that they didn't
"invent" (and I use that term loosely)

-Mark

> 
> -Tim
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Mayo		  				mark@quickweb.com       
 RingZero Comp.  	  		   http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity 
 for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that 
 suffering reaches its supreme point.  -- Arthur Schopenhauer


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 15:24:17 1997
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From: Matt Dillon <dillon@best.net>
Message-Id: <199702202322.PAA19571@flea.best.net>
To: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij), gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu,
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:Guido van Rooij wrote:
:> > > It seems a bit strange to me. Just like the first part of the line
:> > > underneath btw:
:> > > 	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
:> > > 	    ^^^^^^^^^^
:> > 
:> > that makes sure that the strlen(p) > 0... you wouldn't want to access
:> > p[-1] would you?? 
:> > 
:> > hope this helps... ttyl..
:> > 
:> 
:> But p points to argv[0]. According to me that is always non-empty.
:
:Hmm...After rereading this, I think I have it wrong :-(). That's what you get
:with quick answers. The check is indeed necessary.
:
:-Guido

    The check should probably be in there, but it not being there is not
    likely to cause a security hole since page 0 is write-protected on FreeBSD
    machines.

					-Matt

    Matthew Dillon   Engineering, BEST Internet Communications, Inc.
		    <dillon@best.net>
    [always include a portion of the original email in any response!]

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 15:51:37 1997
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From: Thomas David Rivers <ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Message-Id: <199702202155.QAA02124@lakes.water.net>
To: ponds!time.cdrom.com!jkh, ponds!lambert.org!terry
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
Cc: ponds!freebsd.org!hackers, ponds!rah.star-gate.com!hasty,
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> 
> I'm willing to write the COM model support code for FreeBSD.  I might
> even be willing to write a Registry (or LDAP directory) for class
> identification, agregation, and configuration.
> 
> 
> 					Regards,
> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org

 I'd like to see that - as I have a developer who's trying to 
 convince us to change the VTABLE format in our C++ compiler.
 He claims we should use Microsoft's; or else we won't be able
 to compile/run-with COM...  

	opinions?

	- Dave R. -

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 15:54:15 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:53:51 -0800
To: Thomas David Rivers <ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com>
From: "Tim Oneil" <toneil@visigenic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
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At 04:55 PM 2/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
> I'd like to see that - as I have a developer who's trying to 
> convince us to change the VTABLE format in our C++ compiler.
> He claims we should use Microsoft's; or else we won't be able
> to compile/run-with COM...  

I think he's right, but thats not enough. I'm not
aware of all the implications but theres got to be
more to it than changing the virtual symbol table
to fit ms.

-Tim


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 15:57:55 1997
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From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
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To: nate@mt.sri.com, terry@lambert.org
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Terry, I'll have to jump in and agree with Nate and the others that you are 
wrong about Win95 renaming config.sys and autoexec.bat.  Maybe you misunderstood 
the question, but you are wrong.

Windows 95, from what I've experienced, may comment out one or two drivers that 
it knows about (basically MS ones like MSCDEX), but leaves the rest of 
config.sys and autoexec.bat basically intact.  It may make a separate 
autoexec.dos with uncommented versions of MSCDEX and so forth, but the 
originally files are NOT renamed.  Admit you are wrong!

As for whether or not it *uses* these DOS drivers in Win32 mode, I will agree 
that it doesn't, if it also has a native Win32 driver for the device in 
question.  But the drivers ARE still loaded, they DO take up conventional (or 
high) memory, and they WILL be used if the system is exited to DOS mode.

-- Jake

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 16:58:29 1997
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Message-Id: <199702210016.KAA22072@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
In-Reply-To: <199702201731.KAA15469@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 20, 97 10:31:53 am"
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:46:28 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org
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Terry Lambert stands accused of saying:
> 
> Your modem is looking for in-band data.  The file is (unfortunately)
> providing it.
> 
> I guess the next question is whether or not the modem is looking on
> purpose, or by accident, or as a result of a defect.
> 
> What flavors are the modems?

They are both Rockwell-based units; one is a Dataplex DPX225, the
other a Banksia MF6.  They may not be familiar to you 8)

> Is the receiving modem a US Robotics Courier/14.4 FaxModem, and the
> sender a modem utilizing the Rockwell modem chipset?  If so, swap
> the modems.  If the problem goes away, your US Robotics needs a
> firmware update.

Don't bother asking an Australian about foreign modems.

> Good luck; I'm afraid you'll need it...

I think I'll worry about it again next time it happens 8)

> 					Terry Lambert

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 16:58:35 1997
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Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
In-Reply-To: <199702201736.KAA15486@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 20, 97 10:36:39 am"
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:51:51 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, jamie@inna.net,
        toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
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Terry Lambert stands accused of saying:
> > 
> > Er, yeah.  You have ABI documentation that's vaguely accurate and
> > legit?  You are willing to fund this?  (Or you know someone else who
> > is?)
> > 
> > And lastly, is your tongue turning black? (Name of the Rose)
> 
> I caught your Umberto Eco reference... I'm not a total barbarian.  ;-).

... but if you were, you'd have assumed I was accusing you of becoming
a devil.  The possibility is there, but it wasn't what I was getting at.

> The ABI documentation is fairly public; there are a number of European
> companies that have it; so does Sun, so does DEC.  There are a *huge*
> number of books that have it.

Aha.  And which book(s) should we trust?  (cf. "vaguely accurate" above).

> As to funding, are you asking if I'm willing to work on this?  Well,
> I'm willing to do the COM implementation, which is the underlying
> technology for DirectX, ActiveX, etc., assuming that FreeBSD ever
> switches to ELF.

No, I meant that for all your output capacity, you're not going to be
able to write all of this.  To get it done, as you've previously
observed, requires a funded organisation that will encourage people to
write code that they might not have for mere fun.  Ergo, funding.

> 					Terry Lambert

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 16:59:46 1997
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From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, David Nugent wrote:

> On Feb 02, 1997 at 11:29:25PM, Darren Reed wrote:
> > > I'm currently working on a network server that needs to use local
> > > creditials on a remote connection, and if that fails, to issue a
> > > "connection refused".
> > 
> > You can't do this (using sockets).
> 
> > I don't quite understand how you want to use the credentials...the
> > description seems confusing.  Can you put it in TCP/IP terms ? :)
> 
> Sorry, just the remote address, as determined by accept(). I don't
> want or need network probes finding the server, which is why I'd
> like an attempted connection from anyone but specific ip addresses
> to get "connection refused", as though there was nothing there.
> The protocol in question will do challenge/key and encryption, but
> this is just to prevent probes from seeing it as a possible target
> in the first place.

I think the simplest thing would be to install Darren's ipfilter and use 
kernel-based packet filtering on the port you are protecting.  You can 
then define rules which send a TCP RST back to the connection originator 
if you don't like them.  The userland process never gets to see the 
connection attempt.

IPFIREWALL has a 'reject' keyword, but it sends an ICMP (port?) unreachable 
rather than an RST.  It would be nice if IPFIREWALL would send RSTs, but 
I have not got around to hacking that in yet.  (Any takers?)
Most OSs report the ICMP message as ECONNREFUSED, but other FreeBSD 
boxes don't.

 Danny

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 16:59:54 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 22:54:40 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: License to kill annoying syslog feature?
References: <199702200713.RAA08383@ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au>
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In-Reply-To: <199702200713.RAA08383@ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au>; from Stephen McKay on Feb 20, 1997 17:13:17 +1000
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As Stephen McKay wrote:

> >I am very happy with the IRIX 5.3 syslog. It supports the syntax
> >
> >*.debug;kern.none;user.none     |/var/syslog/log-filter         /var/syslog/all

> Shouldn't we add better log filtering to syslogd instead?

That wouldn't have helped me, however.  That's why i remembered IRIX,
and implemented the subprocess pipe stuff for syslogd.

To make the picture short: A customer suffers from a bug in his
telecommunications equipment.  Unfortunately, this one has been made
by the ``German IBM'', thus it's expensive, and said company is
unflexible enough so nobody hopes for a bugfix within the next two or
three years.  Now, they've got a router that jams whenever the telco
experiences this bug.  This router logs to that FreeBSD machine, and
the jamming is detectable by making educated guesses on the logged
messages.  To do this, i pipe the log messages of some facility into a
Perl script, which in turn telnets to the router if it detects the
failure condition, and simply reboots the router.  It's a gross
solution, but it had the advantage that it works, and that it doesn't
depend on anybody else (so it was available within a week).

> Add some new syntax supporting arbitrary regular expressions.  That should
> be enough for everyone.

Show me how you would solve my problem with arbitrary regular
expressions.  You win a prize. :-)

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 17:04:15 1997
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To: Chris Csanady <ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, perry@piermont.com
Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/sys types.h 
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[ Yow, cathing up on mail... is this thread gone yet?  :-]

On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:08:03 -0600 
 Chris Csanady <ccsanady@nyx.pr.mcs.net> wrote:

 > If this is to be implemented in freebsd, and changes to the device driver
 > interface are necessary, perhaps now is a good time to try to work toward
 > a standard interface for all the BSD's?  I think that this would be something
 > that would be really nice to have, and would be well worth the work to
 > all involoved.  I suppose the easiest way for this to happen would be if
 > the NetBSD interface, was acceptable to the FreeBSD team.  It might also
 > be a good step in acheiving architecture independance.

...well, the interface change is more like:

	fooselect() -> foopoll()

...and the arguments and return values are different.  There's not
really much else to change.  It's one of those things like "well, there
are only so many ways you can do this, and there's one that doesn't
suck."  :-)

The changes required in the drivers aren't that large, but you have to
change everything that has a "select" entry point...

(For the record, I think common interfaces are a good thing, but this
is one of those that just Isn't That Important To Worry About :-)

Jason R. Thorpe                                       thorpej@nas.nasa.gov
NASA Ames Research Center                               Home: 408.866.1912
NAS: M/S 258-6                                          Work: 415.604.0935
Moffett Field, CA 94035                                Pager: 415.428.6939

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 17:08:55 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702210107.SAA00698@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com (Thomas David Rivers)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:07:48 -0700 (MST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
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> > I'm willing to write the COM model support code for FreeBSD.  I might
> > even be willing to write a Registry (or LDAP directory) for class
> > identification, agregation, and configuration.
> 
>  I'd like to see that - as I have a developer who's trying to 
>  convince us to change the VTABLE format in our C++ compiler.
>  He claims we should use Microsoft's; or else we won't be able
>  to compile/run-with COM...  
> 
> 	opinions?

He's right, at least insofar as you want binary interoperability with
COM components produced by commercial vendors for Microsoft platforms
to run on your platform.


The following is an exceprtf from "The Component Object Model: Techincal
Overvied" ( http://www.microsoft.com/oledev/olecom/Com_modl.htm ):

] Binary Standard
] 
] For any given platform (hardware and operating system combination),
] COM defines a standard way to lay out virtual function tables
] (vtables) in memory, and a standard way to call functions through
] the vtables. Thus, any language that can call functions via
] pointers (C, C++, Smalltalk, Ada, and even BASIC) all can be used
] to write components that can interoperate with other components
] written to the same binary standard. Indirection (the client holds
] a pointer to a vtable) allows for vtable sharing among multiple
] instances of the same object class. On a system with hundreds of
] object instances, vtable sharing can reduce memory requirements
] considerably, because additional vtables pointing to the same
] component instance consume much less memory than multiple
] instances of the same component.
] 
]              COM Component
] Client     ,---------------------.
] Variable --|---> VTBL pointer ---|-------> VTBL
]            |                     |  ,---------------------.
]            | Provate object data |  | pointer to function |
]            `---------------------'  | pointer to function |
]                                     | pointer to function |
]                                     `---------|-----------'
]                                               |
]                                               |
]                                     ,---------v---------------------.
]                                     | function1(pObj,arg1,arg2,...) |
]                                     | {                             |
]                                     |         ...                   |
]                                     | }                             |
]                                     `-------------------------------'

[ ... ]

] Basic Interoperability and Performance
] 
] These are provided by COM's use of vtables to define a binary
] interface standard for method calling between components. Calls
] between COM components in the same process are only a handful
] of processor instructions slower than a standard direct
] function call and no slower than a compile-time bound C++
] object invocation. 

In effect, if you don't do it, then you might be able to use third
party COM components in your framework, but third party containers
("applications built from components") won't be able to use code
compiled by your compiler... at least for inprocess servers; I suppose
you *could* write a glue .exe that would marshal your interfaces into
a vtable exported by the glue .exe ...at the cost of having to
marshal all your data and function call arguments using RPC, which
you would not have to do with an in process COM server, and at the
cost of not being able to engage in "free threading" in consumers
of the objects you provide.  An RPC call, even for IPC, won't migrate
threads into the address space of the implementation object.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 17:13:21 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:13:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Steve Hovey <root@buffnet.net>
To: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Geniuses
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Ive said this before but I must say this again.

As a Mensan yet, I have to state that people who create, produce and 
maintain FreeBSD are top level geniuses!  And also, I must state that the 
world is a better (and better functioning) place because of you!


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 17:18:37 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:19:21 -0800
From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Message-Id: <199702210119.RAA00608@lightside.com>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Alternatives to SYSV IPC?
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I have another programming question.  In addition to thread support, I need 
shared memory, message queues, and semaphores.  Sounds like a perfect match to 
SYSVSHM, SYSVMSG, and SYSVSEM, eh?

I don't have a problem with using these SYSV routines, and they are certainly 
portable enough, but I'm just concerned since they are not in widespread use.  I 
know you can use mmap() for shared memory, and the thread libraries have 
built-in semaphore support, but what about messages?  Sockets could be used, but 
they just provide an arbitrary stream of bytes, not discrete messages.  FIFOs 
have the same problem, and pollute the filename space (I have the same problem 
with using mmap() for shared memory).

Any comments you can make on pros and cons of the SYSV IPC routines, or if there 
is some legitimate alternative with similar functionality that I haven't thought 
of, I'd like to know about it.  Thanks in advance!

-- Jake

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 17:24:48 1997
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: "connection refused"
To: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:24:25 +1100 (EDT)
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In some mail from David Nugent, sie said:
> 
> On Feb 02, 1997 at 07:46:13AM, Darren Reed wrote:
> > In some mail from John-Mark Gurney, sie said:
> > > > Ok. Then recvmsg() should be used without (instead of) accept()?
> > > 
> > > it seems that accept() does do what you want.....  directly from the
> > > accept() man page:
> > > For certain protocols which require an explicit confirmation, such as ISO
> > > or DATAKIT, accept() can be thought of as merely dequeueing the next con-
> > > nection request and not implying confirmation.  Confirmation can be im-
> > > plied by a normal read or write on the new file descriptor, and rejection
> > > can be implied by closing the new socket.
> 
> Yes, that's how I read it too, the first time. :)
> 
> > > it seems you can accept() a conntection... verify were it is coming from
> > > and then close and it will be rejected...  as it turns out this isn't
> > > true...  (I just wrote a test program to test it)...
> 
> As did I, and hence my question.

Well, if you read the kernel source (tcp_input.c), it becomes more obvious
about why you can't stop it before it goes "connection established".  The
socket is in LISTEN, packet comes in, gets bumped upto SYN_RECEIVED. and
SYN-ACK is sent back (so the other side goes to ESTABLISHED).  From my
recollection of the code, there are no hooks for going to a user.

Darren

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 17:25:38 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702210122.SAA00718@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:22:41 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jamie@inna.net,
        toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702210021.KAA22121@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 21, 97 10:51:51 am
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> > The ABI documentation is fairly public; there are a number of European
> > companies that have it; so does Sun, so does DEC.  There are a *huge*
> > number of books that have it.
> 
> Aha.  And which book(s) should we trust?  (cf. "vaguely accurate" above).

	"Inside COM"
	Dale Rogerson
	Microsoft Press
	ISBN 1-57231-349-8
	US $34.99

	"Inside OLE"
	Kraig Brockschmidt
	Microsoft Press
	<<sorry, I don't have it handy>>

See also:

	http://www.microsoft.com/intdev/sdk/docs/com/comintro.htm
	http://www.sagus.com/prod-i~1/net-comp/dcom/index.htm
	http://www.microsoft.com/oledev/olemkt/oledcom/dcomspec.txt


> > As to funding, are you asking if I'm willing to work on this?  Well,
> > I'm willing to do the COM implementation, which is the underlying
> > technology for DirectX, ActiveX, etc., assuming that FreeBSD ever
> > switches to ELF.
> 
> No, I meant that for all your output capacity, you're not going to be
> able to write all of this.  To get it done, as you've previously
> observed, requires a funded organisation that will encourage people to
> write code that they might not have for mere fun.  Ergo, funding.

I don't know about that.  I think it would be fun.  Are you referring
to my statements about WINE?  WINE was uninteresting as of Fall 1994,
after the release of WIN32... so yes, you'd have to pay me to work
on WINE, especially if you wanted to put the code under GPL or some
other restrictive license and destroy my ability to use my own code
later for some commercial gain or other.

Supporting COM, by itself, and DCOM, in particular, doesn't require
that you support all of WIN32.  DCOM requires DCE RPC, and implementing
the protocol documented in the IETF specification given by the last URL,
above.  THere is significant value in allowing the location of DCOM
comonents on non-Microsoft platforms.  Microsoft recognized this
themselves -- the second URL is for Software AG, a company that has
been contracted by Microsoft to implement COM and DCOM on non-MS
platforms (including Linux but not including FreeBSD -- Linux is
ELF and COM requires ELF for MS DLL ABI compatability).  The URL is
for their US site.


In any case, I'd prefer the design, if any, of a FreeBSD COM/DCOM
capability *not* preclude implementation of a full WIN32 ABI at
some later date.  No sense in shooting off your own foot.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 17:47:17 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702210142.SAA00747@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:42:43 -0700 (MST)
Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, terry@lambert.org, jamie@inna.net, toneil@visigenic.com,
        jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
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> Terry, I'll have to jump in and agree with Nate and the others that
> you are wrong about Win95 renaming config.sys and autoexec.bat.  Maybe
> you misunderstood the question, but you are wrong.
> 
> Windows 95, from what I've experienced, may comment out one or two
> drivers that it knows about (basically MS ones like MSCDEX), but
> leaves the rest of config.sys and autoexec.bat basically intact.
> It may make a separate autoexec.dos with uncommented versions of
> MSCDEX and so forth, but the originally files are NOT renamed.
> Admit you are wrong!

I reinstalled Windows95 on a scratch system before making my
previous posting to Nate.  It exhibited the behaviour I
described, namely renaming instead of copying those files.  The
scratch system was a WFWG 3.11 with a vendor-supplied CDROM
driver and several other components (like McAfee antivirus) that
were loaded into the autoexec.bat and config.sys.

I will make you the same offer I made Nate (I haven't seen a message
from any of "and the others").  If you can tell me how to duplicate
your results locally, on a scratch system, I will duplicate them,
and if I get the same results, I will repost my other posting's
paragraphs 2, 3, and 4, with minor editing of paragraph 2 to include
the admission.

Most likely, you or Nate will need to provide me with a file to
point to in config.sys or autoexec.bat, one you know for a fact will
not be removed by the Win95 install.


> As for whether or not it *uses* these DOS drivers in Win32 mode, I
> will agree that it doesn't, if it also has a native Win32 driver
> for the device in question.

Yes.  And if it doesn't have one, it still won't call the "DOS not
busy interrupt" or push all INT 21 calls all the way down to the
16 bit driver, unless you change configuration options away from
the defaults, so even if you have a 16 bit driver, it won't do you
any good unless you do something non-standard, or it happens to only
hook interrupts that don't get proxies to a protect mode dispatcher.

> But the drivers ARE still loaded, they DO take up conventional (or 
> high) memory, and they WILL be used if the system is exited to DOS
> mode.

All agreed (except it's "Restart the computer in MS-DOS mode").


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 17:55:40 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:55:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Mayo <mark@quickweb.com>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
cc: questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Install to second hard-drive...
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Hi guys. I have a friend who's trying to install FreeBSD to the Master IDE
hard-drive on the Secondary controller. The install sees the harddrive
just fine, and copies all the CDROM files to the drive - but after
everything is done, there's no way to boot freebsd, since the install only
touched the 2'nd disk (1st=win95,2nd=CDROM,3rd=freebsd).

There's no tips in the FAQ or handbook for installing on a drive other
than the 1st BIOS disk... just curious how I should place the boot manager
in the first drive so I can boot to freeBSD (without nuking win95).

Also, is there a way to use the boot floppy to boot from any drive? On my
system, I was able to boot from the floppy, and type:
1:sd(0,a)kernel

and it booted fine.. just doesn't seem to work with his wd drive though. I
tried several combinations, and all I get is nothing, or an error. Bummer.
I've tried installing both the Boot Easy and Standard bootmanagers to the
second drive. Just can't get it to boot!!

TIA,
-Mark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Mayo		  				mark@quickweb.com       
 RingZero Comp.  	  		   http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity 
 for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that 
 suffering reaches its supreme point.  -- Arthur Schopenhauer


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 19:21:44 1997
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 22:20:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Jamie Bowden <jamie@inna.net>
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: Jake Hamby <jehamby@lightside.com>, nate@mt.sri.com, terry@lambert.org,
        toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
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On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> Most likely, you or Nate will need to provide me with a file to
> point to in config.sys or autoexec.bat, one you know for a fact will
> not be removed by the Win95 install.

device=c:\sb16\sbcd.sys

It will not rem out this driver.  This is the 16 bit cdrom driver 
supplied with a creative labs discovery 2x kit to attach a panasonic 
cr-563 to a sound blaster 16 with panasonic interface.  It will happily 
load and use this driver.  If you rem out this driver, you no longer have 
cdrom access in dos.  I would love to not have to waste memory on old 
drivers, but I don't seem to have that option, and alot of older software 
will not run in anything but a dos command prompt.  Annoying as it is, it 
seems to be the way of things.

Jamie Bowden

Network Administrator, TBI Ltd.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 19:22:18 1997
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To: Philippe Regnauld <regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Screen flickering 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:49:51 +0100."
             <Mutt.19970220104951.regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk> 
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:35:53 +0000
From: Brian Somers <brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>
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> Brian Somers (brian) ecrit/writes:
> > 
> > Essentially, the syscons screen "flickers" probably every couple of
> > seconds on average, and only with "vidcontrol -c destructive".  From
> > what I can figure, the "while (!(inb(crtc_addr+6)&8)) ;" bit in
> > syscons.c doesn't work as expected (although removing it makes
> > things a *lot* worse)....
> 
> 	Got the same thing, except it's when I move the mouse on 
> 	the console. Config is:
> 
> 	2.2-Beta
> 	Acer 950C P75 / 24 Mb, 800x600 DSTN -- Chips & Tech 65545
> 
> 	The screen flickers when I move the mouse in console mode
> 	(Moused).
> 
> 	Just for the record, this machine's PCCARD  only started working when
> 	I applied the patches for  PS/2 Keyboard !!
> 
> 	And then, moused won't work with the PS/2 mouse - only with
> 	serial mice.

Interesting, the laptop I'm talking about is an Acer 950 P120 / 40 Mb & TFT.
The graphics chipset is the same, and everything works..... (built-in mouse
too).

I'm not surprised about the flickering.... the same retrace code is used for
the mouse stuff.  Try "vidcontrol -c destructive" for some more flicker ;)
-- 
Brian <brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>, <brian@freebsd.org>
      <http://www.awfulhak.demon.co.uk/>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 19:41:50 1997
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From: mark thompson <thompson@tgsoft.com>
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Subject: ln -s -f does unlink of dir
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On my 2.1.6 system i had a directory /usr/src/sys. Elsewhere in the
filesystem i stupidly did a ln -s -f /u/FreeBSD/src/* /usr/src. To my
immense surprise, ln unlinked /usr/src/sys! fsck'ing /usr proved that
this was true.

I suppose everybody but me knew about that, though?

-mark

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 21:51:43 1997
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To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Cc: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby), nate@mt.sri.com, jamie@inna.net,
        toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
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> Most likely, you or Nate will need to provide me with a file to
> point to in config.sys or autoexec.bat, one you know for a fact will
> not be removed by the Win95 install.

The driver for my PRD-150 PCMCIA CD will not be removed by the Win95
install.


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 22:29:14 1997
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Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
In-Reply-To: <199702201821.LAA15669@phaeton.artisoft.com>
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> What Terry said with regard to 16 bit drivers in particular came *after*
> Nate said this was wrong:
> 
> ] Nate says:
> ] >
> ] > You're wrong Terry.  The win31 -> win95 upgrade copies your autoexec and 
> ] > config files to .dos, and rems some of the old drivers (like msdex) out, 
> ] > but overall it will use the 16bit dos drivers happily.
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nate didn't say this.

> POINT 1:	The 16 bit disk interrupts can not be hooked
> 		successfully without disabling the Windows95 PM
> 		disk drivers.  This contravenes the claim indicated
> 		in Nate's last sentence above.

Counter-point.

The 16-bit Windows driver works on my Win95 box to drive
the silly parallel-port SCSI adaptor.  How?

> POINT 2:	LANtastic for Windows 3.x is well known to fail on
> 		Windows95 unless the PM disk drivers are disabled.
> 		This is a repeatable, concrete test which disproves
> 		the validity of Nate's claim.

No, this is a *single* event which shows that the Artisoft's product
does something funky with the OS that conflicts with the PM drivers.

You can't justify a all-encompassing statement with a single example.
Any example which refutes your statement makes your statement false.
(And there have been *many* people who have proof that youre statement
is false.)

Now, get your attributions correct.




Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 23:02:58 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:59:07 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199702210659.RAA31725@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: hackers@freebsd.com, thompson@tgsoft.com
Subject: Re: ln -s -f does unlink of dir
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>On my 2.1.6 system i had a directory /usr/src/sys. Elsewhere in the
>filesystem i stupidly did a ln -s -f /u/FreeBSD/src/* /usr/src. To my
>immense surprise, ln unlinked /usr/src/sys! fsck'ing /usr proved that
>this was true.
>
>I suppose everybody but me knew about that, though?

Perhaps not.  `ln -sf' is buggy and attempts to unlink /usr/src/sys.
This can only succeed as root.  2.1.x permits root to unlink directories
although 2.2 and -current don't.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Feb 20 23:53:34 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:46:16 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Screen flickering
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As Søren Schmidt wrote:

> I'd like to do it this way, but lots of the crappy VGA cards thats
> out there (and often its the same ones that produces most of
> the annoing jitter) doesn't support an interrupt, and some only
> allows using NMI.

Huh, NMI?  I doubt this.  NMI is only available as then IOCHCK signal,
and lowering it will usually cause a panic (or drop you into DDB).

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 00:21:06 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:03:45 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: sbwait hang?
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As Zach Heilig wrote:

> Yep, I think I know the problem... I thought I was wrong when you
> mailed me that they were connected by serial ports, but now that you
> mention that there are modems on the loop, it's fairly probable that
> there is a sequence of bytes that need escaping (and these occur about
> 4Meg into the linux tar file).

In this case, you should get away with manually dropping the modem
connection when it stalls (without dropping the TCP link), and
reconnecting them.  That would probably yield a different bit pattern.

Btw., there are many Rockwell chipsets known to be buggy, and i've
heard it from a local modem manufacturer that in particular their
original firmware is buggy.  Modem vendors who don't eliminate these
bugs are likely to lose.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 04:53:11 1997
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Subject: Paper on packet matching.
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I mentioned earlier that there was a paper on a different mechanism
for matching packets in a filter (faster than BPF).  I don't have a URL
but the reference is:

Mary L. Bailey, Durra Gopal, Michael A. Pagels, Larry L. Peterson,
     Prasenjit Sarkar, "PathFinder", 1st OSDI, November 1994


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 04:58:51 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 07:58:42 -0500
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Subject: Re: Geniuses
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Hi,

I can't resist. I'd say Bill Gates would easily qualify to be 
a Mensan too. He certainly didn't make the world a better place.

Nothing against Mensan's, but it should never be used as an
authoritative reference :-)

Regards,
Yves Lepage

Begin forwarded message:

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From: Steve Hovey <root@buffnet.net>
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Ive said this before but I must say this again.

As a Mensan yet, I have to state that people who create, produce and 
maintain FreeBSD are top level geniuses!  And also, I must state that the 
world is a better (and better functioning) place because of you!


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 05:06:09 1997
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From: "Brian Somers" <brian@utell.co.uk>
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Subject: dhcp
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:05:49 -0000
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Would I be stepping on anyones toes (asami?) if I
fix the wide-dhcp port ?  It's broken since the
disappearance of the "next" pointer in struct ifnet.

Also, when a port is "adjusted", is it normal to
send the patches back to the author - or is
there some other mechanism for doing this
(maybe it's automated) ?

TIA

Brian <brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <brian@freebsd.org> <brian@utell.co.uk>
      <http://www.awfulhak.demon.co.uk>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 05:37:48 1997
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From: mark thompson <thompson@tgsoft.com>
To: nate@mt.sri.com
CC: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
In-reply-to: message from Nate Williams on Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:50:56 -0700
	(MST)
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?
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To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:50:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?

C'mon, I *really* want to see you admit you're wrong instead of changing
the subject to something like how many times you've installed it and
never seen it happen, or what you read, or something else.  You're
simply *wrong*


Nate

-------- 'nuther thread ---------
To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:14:04 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Internet class in RSU.

> > Most likely you will be running AIX on these machines.  They are not
> > Intel processor based.
> 
> No, there are PC's.  I setup one up that came with 3COM EISA cards
> last year.  I think it has a Neptune based motherboard.

$%!#! IBM numbering schemes.... 8-) 8-).

I stand corrected.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org

-------- and i said -------
There Nate. He said it. Can you drop this now?

-mark

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 06:45:13 1997
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Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
From: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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Terry blurps:

 * Yakuri, Kudasai?

Where in the _hell_ did you pick that one up??? ;)

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 07:26:25 1997
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
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Subject: Re: Paper on packet matching.
To: darrenr@cyber.com.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 07:26:15 -0800 (PST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702211253.XAA06531@plum.cyber.com.au> from "Darren Reed" at Feb 21, 97 11:53:02 pm
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Darren Reed wrote:
> 
> 
> I mentioned earlier that there was a paper on a different mechanism
> for matching packets in a filter (faster than BPF).  I don't have a URL
> but the reference is:
> 
> Mary L. Bailey, Durra Gopal, Michael A. Pagels, Larry L. Peterson,
>      Prasenjit Sarkar, "PathFinder", 1st OSDI, November 1994
> 

	ftp://ftp.cs.arizona.edu/xkernel/Papers/pathfinder.ps


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 07:59:44 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 07:59:16 -0800
To: Steve Hovey <root@buffnet.net>
From: "Tim Oneil" <toneil@visigenic.com>
Subject: Re: Geniuses
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At 08:13 PM 2/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Ive said this before but I must say this again.

>As a Mensan yet, I have to state that people who create, produce and 
>maintain FreeBSD are top level geniuses!  And also, I must state that the 
>world is a better (and better functioning) place because of you!

Well, I ain't a 'mensan', but I'll agree, the crap is pretty good.
*snort*


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 08:15:10 1997
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From: Yves Lepage <yves@CC.McGill.CA>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 11:10:21 -0500
To: "Tim Oneil" <toneil@visigenic.com>
Subject: Re: Geniuses
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Oh! I just realized that my wannabe-funny  reply could be interpreted as
a non-tribute to FreeBSD.

I just want to say that I too love FreebSD and it's really made my life
(and I am sure hundreds of others) much easier (if not to say, possible 
at all).

Yves Lepage
  
Begin forwarded message:

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 07:59:16 -0800
To: Steve Hovey <root@buffnet.net>
From: "Tim Oneil" <toneil@visigenic.com>
Subject: Re: Geniuses
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At 08:13 PM 2/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Ive said this before but I must say this again.

>As a Mensan yet, I have to state that people who create, produce and 
>maintain FreeBSD are top level geniuses!  And also, I must state that the 
>world is a better (and better functioning) place because of you!

Well, I ain't a 'mensan', but I'll agree, the crap is pretty good.
*snort*


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 09:09:31 1997
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If I have any free time I'll be glad to help.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 09:50:58 1997
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I'm in the process (a several day process) of downloading 2.1.7
from ftp.freebsd.org. 

I notice the checksum files are missing...

	- Dave R. -


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 10:14:35 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:13:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Steve <shovey@buffnet.net>
To: Tim Oneil <toneil@visigenic.com>
cc: Steve Hovey <root@buffnet.net>, questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Geniuses
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Tim Oneil wrote:

> At 08:13 PM 2/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >Ive said this before but I must say this again.
> 
> >As a Mensan yet, I have to state that people who create, produce and 
> >maintain FreeBSD are top level geniuses!  And also, I must state that the 
> >world is a better (and better functioning) place because of you!
> 
> Well, I ain't a 'mensan', but I'll agree, the crap is pretty good.
> *snort*
> 
> 
Well ok - it was a jerky way to say it on my part - but that just means
that even jerky guys like myself can still note a good thing when they see
it.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 10:21:55 1997
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From: uhclem@airmail.net (Frank Durda IV)
Subject: Can mkisofs leave file dates unaltered?
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:21:50 -0600 (CST)
Cc: uhclem@airmail.net (Frank Durda IV)
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I am trying to use mkisofs to create some backups and it 
appears to be working fine, except that the stored files
all have dates and times of when mkisfos was run instead
of the actual date/time stamps on the files.

I know this isn't a restriction of ISO 9660 since I used
to use a Meridian CD-ROM mastering system and it had no
problem with leaving file dates as they were in the
master directories.   Only the directory dates reflected
the time when the ISO 9660 filesystem was constructed.
That's OK.

Any ideas?  The man page doesn't seem to mention anything
about controlling dates.   I need the CD9660 date/times
on files to be unaltered so that a non-Rock Ridge systems
(Windoze/DOS) will see the correct dates.

Keeping the dates/times correct is important for legal reasons.

The system being used is running 2.2-GAMMA, HP4020i
burner, and the mkisofs package that 2.2-GAMMA-0215
provides.

Thanks for any pointers.


					Frank Durda IV
					uhclem@airmail.net


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 10:35:54 1997
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From: RGireyev@BellInd.com
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To: <mark@quickweb.com>
Cc: <hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: Install to second hard-drive...
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:39:36 -0800
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I only know of commercial software that should help you with this. It's
called
System Commander (from V Communications) it's about $70 street price.

>----------
>From: 	Mark Mayo[SMTP:mark@quickweb.com]
>Sent: 	Thursday, February 20, 1997 5:55 PM
>To: 	hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
>Cc: 	questions@FreeBSD.ORG
>Subject: 	Install to second hard-drive...
>
>
>Hi guys. I have a friend who's trying to install FreeBSD to the Master
>IDE
>hard-drive on the Secondary controller. The install sees the harddrive
>just fine, and copies all the CDROM files to the drive - but after
>everything is done, there's no way to boot freebsd, since the install
>only
>touched the 2'nd disk (1st=win95,2nd=CDROM,3rd=freebsd).
>
>There's no tips in the FAQ or handbook for installing on a drive other
>than the 1st BIOS disk... just curious how I should place the boot
>manager
>in the first drive so I can boot to freeBSD (without nuking win95).
>
>Also, is there a way to use the boot floppy to boot from any drive? On
>my
>system, I was able to boot from the floppy, and type:
>1:sd(0,a)kernel
>
>and it booted fine.. just doesn't seem to work with his wd drive
>though. I
>tried several combinations, and all I get is nothing, or an error.
>Bummer.
>I've tried installing both the Boot Easy and Standard bootmanagers to
>the
>second drive. Just can't get it to boot!!
>
>TIA,
>-Mark
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
> Mark Mayo		  				mark@quickweb.com       
> RingZero Comp.  	  		   http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
> Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased
>capacity 
> for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that 
> suffering reaches its supreme point.  -- Arthur Schopenhauer
>
>

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 11:06:45 1997
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From: root@doppler.parksmed.com (Superuser)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Thanks
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Hi my name is AJ and I use SCO (Hi AJ!!!) It all 
started about a year ago when the pusher offered me
a copy of SCO for free. In my week willed way I
shelved BSD and installed SCO........ I'm so ashamed 
of myself......... I only hope the BSD community will
forgive me. This weekend I'm reinstalling BSD and 
putting SCO in my past. I can only look ahead and 
live one bit at a time.


Just a note to THANK YOU for the work you've put
into making BSD the way to go.

AJ

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 11:18:09 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:18:03 -0500 (EST)
From: rohit@cs.umd.edu (Rohit Dube)
Message-Id: <199702211918.OAA21853@seine.cs.umd.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Ethernet-like interface statistics and ioctl/sysctl
Cc: rohit@cs.umd.edu
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Hi,

I was wondering if any version of FreeBSD had an ioctl or
sysctl interface for collecting the dot3* statistics from ethernet
drivers (allingnment errors, collisions etc).

I am looking 2.2 code and man pages. The 'de' drivers seems to maintain 
the correct (RFC 1573) statistics, but I can't find an interface which
export these to user land in the man pages or in the code.

Anybody care to comment on the current or coming support? Or if it
already exists, how to access it (ie the ioctl or the sysctl parameters
or pointers to docs or code.)

Thanks in advance.

--rohit.

PS: I saw a message in the archives posing a similar question on Jan 4, 1997
    but no answers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 11:56:38 1997
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Message-Id: <199702211947.UAA09374@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Subject: Re: hmm
In-Reply-To: <199702202322.PAA19571@flea.best.net> from Matt Dillon at "Feb 20, 97 03:22:27 pm"
To: dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:47:45 +0100 (MET)
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> :> > > underneath btw:
> :> > > 	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
> :> > > 	    ^^^^^^^^^^
> :Hmm...After rereading this, I think I have it wrong :-(). That's what you get
> :with quick answers. The check is indeed necessary.
> :
> :-Guido
> 
>     The check should probably be in there, but it not being there is not
>     likely to cause a security hole since page 0 is write-protected on FreeBSD
>     machines.

Nono, I didn;t mean the check for p==NULL or not; I meant the check
for p!="" (or equivalently: *p!='\0')

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 12:26:30 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702212021.NAA01894@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:21:54 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com,
        jamie@inna.net, toneil@visigenic.com, jfieber@indiana.edu,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> Terry blurps:
> 
>  * Yakuri, Kudasai?
> 
> Where in the _hell_ did you pick that one up??? ;)

Watakshi wa otaku no Ataru Moroboshi.

;-).

					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 12:31:27 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702212028.NAA01921@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC?u
To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:28:47 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@mt.sri.com, mark@quickweb.com, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702210625.XAA00389@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 20, 97 11:25:19 pm
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> > POINT 1:	The 16 bit disk interrupts can not be hooked
> > 		successfully without disabling the Windows95 PM
> > 		disk drivers.  This contravenes the claim indicated
> > 		in Nate's last sentence above.
> 
> Counter-point.
> 
> The 16-bit Windows driver works on my Win95 box to drive
> the silly parallel-port SCSI adaptor.  How?

It hooks INT 13 instead of INT 21, and does not rely on the DOS-not-busy
interrupt for processing, as any network driver which implements NetBIOS
async sends must do.  Pretty obvious.


> Now, get your attributions correct.

I appologize for my attribution error.  It was Jamie Bowden, not Nate.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 12:38:23 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:37:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
To: Superuser <root@doppler.parksmed.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Thanks
In-Reply-To: <199702211903.TAA01239@doppler>
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Superuser wrote:

> 
> Hi my name is AJ and I use SCO (Hi AJ!!!) It all 
> started about a year ago when the pusher offered me
> a copy of SCO for free. In my week willed way I
> shelved BSD and installed SCO........ I'm so ashamed 
> of myself......... I only hope the BSD community will
> forgive me. This weekend I'm reinstalling BSD and 
> putting SCO in my past. I can only look ahead and 
> live one bit at a time.
> 
> 
> Just a note to THANK YOU for the work you've put
> into making BSD the way to go.
> 
> AJ
> 

One day at a time, AJ.  Just keep reading -hackers!



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 12:39:30 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702212034.NAA01944@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Windows95: what you don't know, you must reinvent
To: terry@phaeton.artisoft.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:34:37 -0700 (MST)
Cc: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu, terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com,
        hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jamie@inna.net, toneil@visigenic.com,
        jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702212021.NAA01894@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 21, 97 01:21:54 pm
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> >  * Yakuri, Kudasai?
> > 
> > Where in the _hell_ did you pick that one up??? ;)
> 
> Watakshi wa otaku no Ataru Moroboshi.
> 
> ;-).

Oh, in case anyone was wondering, the second one translates as:

"I am a fan of to be hit on the head with a falling star".

Hee hee.  And ignorant people say the Japanese language can't
support puns...


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 14:10:42 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:10:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Jamie Bowden <jamie@inna.net>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject: mkisofs
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I don't know if this is quite the right list for this, but here it is:

5:04pm dolphin  /home/jamie %mkisofs -o FreeBSD.iso -v -a -T -l -D -L 
2.1.7-RELEASE
mkisofs v1.04
assertion "omit_version_number" failed: file 
"/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/mkisofs/mkisofs.c", line 344
Abort

5:00pm dolphin  /home/jamie %Feb 21 17:09:15 dolphin /kernel: pid 21029 
(mkisofs), uid 18: exited on signal 6

What am I screwing up?  Or is this something in mkisofs that is broken?

Jamie Bowden

Network Administrator, TBI Ltd.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 14:39:33 1997
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From: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Message-Id: <199702212239.XAA10384@gvr.win.tue.nl>
Subject: FD_SETSIZE
To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:39:21 +0100 (MET)
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Can someone explain me the way to deal with FD_SETSIZE nowadays?
>From looking at the sources it seems that the kernel is not limited
by whatever FD_SETSIZE is defined to. Is that correct?

Further, there is a comment on the new FD_SETSIZE being 1024 where
I still see FD_SETSIZE set to 256 in sys/types.h. Am I missing
something?

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 15:25:40 1997
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From: Nate Williams <nate@trout.mt.sri.com>
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Subject: RMS's view on dynamic linking
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Path: helena.MT.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!netaxs.com!usenet
From: mef@netaxs.com (Mike Fessler)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: A GPL license question
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:57:25 GMT
Organization: netaxs.com
Lines: 16
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References: <5dt9po$g52$1@nntp2.ba.best.com> <wwa7mkdqch6.fsf@bommel.math.ruu.nl> <5ee5d3$et4$1@coho.halcyon.com> <axvi7nzqln.fsf@terminus.cs.umb.edu> <5ejkn4$683@pasilla.bbnplanet.com>
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Barry Margolin <barmar@bbnplanet.com> wrote:

: But if the library is a DLL, it's completely independent of the calling
: program.  There's no code from the library in the executable, so how can it
: be considered either a copy or a derivative work?  If you distribute them
: together, I think this would fall under the "mere aggregation" clause of
: the GPL, which doesn't require the executable to fall under the GPL.

According to rms, with whom I just corresponded about this issue, that's not so.

His view is that linking two programs is not "mere aggregation", regardless or
whether it's static or dynamic linking. 

I agree that resolving this in court would get extremely messy, but there it is.
(Heck, many jurors can't even make sense of DNA evidence, and *it's* been all
over the press -- I shudder to think of the hash they'd make of a GPL case...)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 15:32:57 1997
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To: Jamie Bowden <jamie@inna.net>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: mkisofs 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:10:32 EST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.91.970221170834.26795F-100000@dolphin.inna.net> 
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Jamie Bowden writes:
> I don't know if this is quite the right list for this, but here it is:
> 
> 5:04pm dolphin  /home/jamie %mkisofs -o FreeBSD.iso -v -a -T -l -D -L 
> 2.1.7-RELEASE
What are you trying to make an isofs of?? 
You need to specify a source tree.
mkisofs -v -a -d -N -T -l -D -L -R -V "YOUR TITLE" -o "OUTFILE NAME" 
source_tree
mkisofs -v -a -d -N -T -l -D -L -R -V "My Cd" -o "newiso.iso" /stage/somedir
Review the man pages for mkisofs.
There is a script located in /usr/share/examples/worm that should help answer
your questions.
Good Luck
John
> 
> What am I screwing up?  Or is this something in mkisofs that is broken?
> 
> Jamie Bowden
> 
> Network Administrator, TBI Ltd.




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 15:37:11 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:37:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Jamie Bowden <jamie@inna.net>
To: John Prince <johnp@lodgenet.com>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: mkisofs 
In-Reply-To: <199702212331.RAA06899@milo.lodgenet.com>
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, John Prince wrote:

> What are you trying to make an isofs of?? 
> You need to specify a source tree.
> mkisofs -v -a -d -N -T -l -D -L -R -V "YOUR TITLE" -o "OUTFILE NAME" 
> source_tree
> mkisofs -v -a -d -N -T -l -D -L -R -V "My Cd" -o "newiso.iso" /stage/somedir
> Review the man pages for mkisofs.
> There is a script located in /usr/share/examples/worm that should help answer
> your questions.
> Good Luck
> John

Cool.  I seem to have screwed up the command line then.  I am attempting 
to burn a 2.1.7-R cd.  I have ftp'd the release, plus all the packages, 
ports, and X.  This is my first time with mkisofs.  Thanks for the tip.

Jamie Bowden

Network Administrator, TBI Ltd.


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In article <199702212325.QAA06245.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@trout.mt.sri.com> you write:
>His view is that linking two programs is not "mere aggregation", regardless or
>whether it's static or dynamic linking. 

That sounds about right.

That's why the LGPL exists.  And why you cannot use GPL'd code in even a
dynamicly-linked library.

The LGPL was written to allow shared libraries to be created using LGPL'd
code; this was stated by many people involved with the creation of the LGPL
(I worked with/for some of them, and the issue came up *many* times).

Ignore Terry when he comes up and talks about how the LGPL doesn't work. ;)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 16:16:50 1997
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From: Nate Williams <nate@trout.mt.sri.com>
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Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
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>>[ RMS ] view is that linking two programs is not "mere aggregation",
regardless or >>whether it's static or dynamic linking.
> 
> That sounds about right.
> 
> That's why the LGPL exists.  And why you cannot use GPL'd code in even a
> dynamicly-linked library.

Except that early Linux commericial software *DID*, and I believe still
do since the regex stuff is GPL'd code, not LGPL'd.  (It's been awhile
since I looked).



Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 16:48:56 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702220045.RAA02272@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: nate@trout.mt.sri.com (Nate Williams)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:45:02 -0700 (MST)
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> According to rms, with whom I just corresponded about this issue,
> that's not so.
> 
> His view is that linking two programs is not "mere aggregation",
> regardless or whether it's static or dynamic linking. 

I think that loading an application into a virtual address space
is "linking" the application with the OS.  RMS's drawing the line
at the "where do you want to link today?" level has never made
sense to me... but I'm merely an engineer, not a political
scientist.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 16:52:58 1997
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Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: sef@Kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
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> The LGPL was written to allow shared libraries to be created using LGPL'd
> code; this was stated by many people involved with the creation of the LGPL
> (I worked with/for some of them, and the issue came up *many* times).
> 
> Ignore Terry when he comes up and talks about how the LGPL doesn't work. ;)

You mean the fact that initialized data for a shared library is linked
into the executable image itself "doesn't count" for some reason which
RMS refuses to put into writing in the LGPL itself?

Or the fact that you *could* make it work with ELF and segment coloring,
but not even Linux actually does this?

Or are we back to the "use = derivation" vs. "use = utilization"
argument.  8-|.

Foo.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 17:16:47 1997
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From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> I'm merely an engineer, not a political scientist.

I'm going to quote you on that next time you go off about the political
structure of the FreeBSD organization. 
 
> 
> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org
> ---
> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
> or previous employers.
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 17:50:18 1997
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To: Jamie Bowden <jamie@inna.net>
cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: mkisofs 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:10:32 EST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.91.970221170834.26795F-100000@dolphin.inna.net> 
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:50:03 -0800
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See the options in /usr/share/examples/worm/makecdfs.sh

> I don't know if this is quite the right list for this, but here it is:
> 
> 5:04pm dolphin  /home/jamie %mkisofs -o FreeBSD.iso -v -a -T -l -D -L 
> 2.1.7-RELEASE
> mkisofs v1.04
> assertion "omit_version_number" failed: file 
> "/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/mkisofs/mkisofs.c", line 344
> Abort
> 
> 5:00pm dolphin  /home/jamie %Feb 21 17:09:15 dolphin /kernel: pid 21029 
> (mkisofs), uid 18: exited on signal 6
> 
> What am I screwing up?  Or is this something in mkisofs that is broken?
> 
> Jamie Bowden
> 
> Network Administrator, TBI Ltd.
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 19:17:33 1997
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > Terry blurps:
> > 
> >  * Yakuri, Kudasai?
> > 
> > Where in the _hell_ did you pick that one up??? ;)
> 
> Watakshi wa otaku no Ataru Moroboshi.

Yakushite Kudasai.  What's this


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 22:01:25 1997
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:01:01 -0800 (PST)
From: John-Mark Gurney <jmg@nike.efn.org>
Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.win.tue.nl>
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Subject: Re: FD_SETSIZE
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Guido van Rooij wrote:

> Can someone explain me the way to deal with FD_SETSIZE nowadays?
> From looking at the sources it seems that the kernel is not limited
> by whatever FD_SETSIZE is defined to. Is that correct?

yes... the kernel doesn't have a limit on FD_SETSIZE...

> Further, there is a comment on the new FD_SETSIZE being 1024 where
> I still see FD_SETSIZE set to 256 in sys/types.h. Am I missing
> something?

yes... that is because FD_SETSIZE was (is it still?) being used as a
"multiple" to decide how many bits to allocate/use...

to increase the size of FD_SETSIZE simply define it to a new value before
you include sys/types.h... then simply limit yourself to the new limit
:)...

hope this helps... ttyl...

John-Mark

gurney_j@efn.org
http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/
Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954   (FreeBSD Box)

Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Feb 21 23:08:27 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:09:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Mayo <mark@quickweb.com>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: X11R6.3 / Broadway?
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Just curious if anybody had checked out the "Broadway" release (a.k.a.
X11R6.3) yet! Seems pretty cool.. except the picture of M$ Explorer on the
web site ?#!

Also, is there a port of the latest xterm? I've been trying to get mutt to
work in color, but to no avail. I'm guessing maybe my copy of xterm is out
of date (from the octoer snap, just upgraded to 2.2-GAMMA, but I don't
think xterm was touched..)

TIA,
-Mark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Mayo		  				mark@quickweb.com       
 RingZero Comp.  	  		   http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity 
 for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that 
 suffering reaches its supreme point.  -- Arthur Schopenhauer


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 01:50:39 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:37:50 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: mkisofs
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As Jamie Bowden wrote:

> Cool.  I seem to have screwed up the command line then.  I am attempting 
> to burn a 2.1.7-R cd.  I have ftp'd the release, plus all the packages, 
> ports, and X.  This is my first time with mkisofs.  Thanks for the tip.

Don't forget to drop this file into the root of your CD:

cat > cdrom.inf <<EOF
CD_VERSION = 2.1.7-RELEASE
EOF

It's not part of the FTP distribution, but sorta required on a CD-ROM.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 02:02:43 1997
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From: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
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On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Guido van Rooij wrote:

> > :> > > underneath btw:
> > :> > > 	if (*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[') {
> > :> > > 	    ^^^^^^^^^^
> > :Hmm...After rereading this, I think I have it wrong :-(). That's what you get
> > :with quick answers. The check is indeed necessary.
> > :
> > :-Guido
> > 
> >     The check should probably be in there, but it not being there is not
> >     likely to cause a security hole since page 0 is write-protected on FreeBSD
> >     machines.
> 
> Nono, I didn;t mean the check for p==NULL or not; I meant the check
> for p!="" (or equivalently: *p!='\0')


with p=""  
*p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' _still_ will read a byte p[-1].
In most of situations not dangerous, but still potentially unaccessible
memory (sorry, I have no idea where is this ugly thing from and how p is
allocated).

--
Alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 03:50:53 1997
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From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: mark@quickweb.com (Mark Mayo)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Install to second hard-drive...
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As Mark Mayo wrote:

> There's no tips in the FAQ or handbook for installing on a drive other
> than the 1st BIOS disk... just curious how I should place the boot manager
> in the first drive so I can boot to freeBSD (without nuking win95).

You need to install the boot manager on the first drive (required),
and maybe on the FreeBSD drive, too (optional, you can get away with a
standard bootstrap there, or even with `dangerously dedicated' mode,
but you won't get a menu then allowing you to toggle back and forth
through the drives).

I don't know whether booteasy can handle more than one drive.  I
remember somebody saying that os-bs is better in this respect.

> Also, is there a way to use the boot floppy to boot from any drive? On my
> system, I was able to boot from the floppy, and type:
> 1:sd(0,a)kernel
> 
> and it booted fine.. just doesn't seem to work with his wd drive though. I

1:wd(2,a)kernel

It's the second BIOS drive (#1 aka D:), but FreeBSD takes it as wd2
since it doesn't auto-assign the unit numbers in the wd driver, but
rather hard-codes them into the possible device slots.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 03:50:55 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:29:27 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Alternatives to SYSV IPC?
References: <199702210119.RAA00608@lightside.com>
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In-Reply-To: <199702210119.RAA00608@lightside.com>; from Jake Hamby on Feb 20, 1997 17:19:21 -0800
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As Jake Hamby wrote:

> ..., but what about messages?  Sockets could be used, but they just
> provide an arbitrary stream of bytes, not discrete messages.  FIFOs
> have the same problem, and pollute the filename space (I have the
> same problem with using mmap() for shared memory).

What else than `an arbitrary stream of bytes' is a message?  Define
your message to be a structure, with a length and type field at the
beginning, and type-dependant data following.

FIFOs (or local-domain sockets) don't pollute the name space more than
SysV msgs did.  Remember, all that SYSVIPC created a second (and 3rd
etc.) namespace, with an inconsitent set of programs to handle them,
and even inconsistent attributes, IIRC.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 05:43:34 1997
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Message-ID: <19970222141900.UG19860@keltia.freenix.fr>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 14:19:00 +0100
From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: X11R6.3 / Broadway?
References: <Pine.BSF.3.94.970222020625.25962A-100000@vinyl.quickweb.com>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.94.970222020625.25962A-100000@vinyl.quickweb.com>; from Mark Mayo on Feb 22, 1997 02:09:10 -0500
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According to Mark Mayo:
> Also, is there a port of the latest xterm? I've been trying to get mutt to
> work in color, but to no avail. I'm guessing maybe my copy of xterm is out
> of date (from the octoer snap, just upgraded to 2.2-GAMMA, but I don't
> think xterm was touched..)

Use the XFree_6 3.2 xterm. It has colors. Use "xterm-color" as TERM value
and you'll get Mutt with colors.
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
  FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 06:58:31 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:55:54 -0500
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Subject: partition...
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I was wondering if that in the case that FreeBSD would screw something up
on my hard drive, like erase everything, would it only affect the partition
that it was on or the whole hard drive?


							Chris Yafrate


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 07:09:12 1997
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Message-Id: <199702221509.KAA12718@spoon.beta.com>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Device driver cookbook.
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:09:00 -0500
From: "Brian J. McGovern" <mcgovern@spoon.beta.com>
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I promised I'd eventually get to it, and I'll be working on it heavily
this weeknd. Below is the first "installment" where I walk through a simple
pseudo-device driver that you can read from with a fixed buffer. Subsequent
additions will make it more flexable. I'm releasing it to "hackers" now, so
that everyone has a chance to comment, and let me know if they like/don't like/
would like me to change anything. Thanks for the comments ahead of time.

	-Brian
- - - - - - - - - - - The Document - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Writing a character pseudo-device driver is actually not all that difficult,
once you understand all of the steps that are required. Hopefully, this walk
through of creating a character pseudo-device driver will set the stage for
the understanding of writing other device drivers, with more functionality.

The first step is to think about what you want to accomplish with the device
driver, and how to go about putting it all together. In our first example,
we will create a very simplistic driver - one that will allow you to open
the device, close it, and read from it. When you read, it will return part,
or all of a specified message, based on the size of your reads.

For those of you who have absolutely no background on writing a device driver,
I recommend you head off to the nearest book store, and pick up a book or
two on the subject. Although the details of "how" to write one for a particular
system may not apply, the background and concepts will. I will attempt to
replicate the needed information here, but I can not guarentee to cover
everything that may play a role in the device driver you wish to write.

The first thing you'll need to do is set up a working enviornment in the kernel
source tree. I recommend creating a directory (for pseudo-devices) under
/usr/src/sys/dev/YOUR_DRIVER_NAME. I'll be calling my driver "foo", so I'll
create the directory /usr/src/sys/dev/foo.

Now, within this directory, I'm going to create a file called foo.c. I use the
name "foo", simply so I know it will relate to my "foo" driver. Make sense?
I hope so :)

In this file, I'm going to include several headers, right off the bat,
so my source will look like:

#include <sys/param.h>
#include <sys/systm.h>
#include <sys/ioctl.h>
#include <sys/conf.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#include <sys/kernel.h>

These include files will include everything that we need for our simple

device driver (and quite possibly more).

Now, the next logical thing to do would be to define a MAJOR NUMBER for
our device driver. A major number is merely a unique number to seperate
our device driver from all of the other device drivers. You can find the
used major numbers in /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/majors.i386. Since our
device driver will be character based, we look for the character major numbers,
and then look for an unused one. In our case, number 20 is "reserved for local
use", so we'll use that number, since our device driver will never be
distributed, and therefore, should never conflict (unless we write another
character device driver locally). What we will do now is #define CDEV_MAJOR
to be equal to the number we just chose. This is one of those "standards" that
just make sense. You'll find that doing it this way, rather than just
hard-coding the major number, makes it easier to change later, as well as
lets other developers know what to look for, in case they ever have to work
on your driver. It'll also help stop typos, as well.

So, now, your driver code should look like:

#include <sys/param.h>
#include <sys/systm.h>
#include <sys/ioctl.h>
#include <sys/conf.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#include <sys/kernel.h>

#define CDEV_MAJOR 20

Not bad. We're making some headway.

The next thing that I want to do is define the buffer that we'll be using
for our driver. In my case, I want a character buffer with a string of
my choice in it (my message). Hence, I'll add one more line to our code,
making it look like:

#include <sys/param.h>
#include <sys/systm.h>
#include <sys/ioctl.h>
#include <sys/conf.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#include <sys/kernel.h>

#define CDEV_MAJOR 20

static char message[] = "Wow. I really have a device driver here!\n\0";


You'll notice that the string is declared static. This is so that it will
not conflict with any other variables called "message" elsewhere in the
kernel. You will see, rather quickly, that nearly all global variables,
or exported functions, are declared static.

Now, we only have a few more things to set up for our device driver. Since
we'll only be concerned about reading from our driver, we'll only concern
ourselves explicitly with the read routine. We will "fake" the open
and close routines for the time being, so that they will always succeed. Note,
that this can cause problems, simply because they'll be able to open
dozens of "foo" devices. However, we'll add some error checking to our first
read routine to keep from selecting invalid minor numbers. Note, once we
have a working open and close routine, we'll be able to move the error
checking there, and out of the read routine completely. This is because the
kernel does a certain amount of error checking ahead of time, and won't allow
reads or writes to be performed on not-open minor numbers (more on this later).

One note on minor numbers. MINOR numbers are used to keep track of seperate
entities within the same device driver. For instance, for serial devices
(the sio driver), the first com port will have a minor number 0, the next,
a minor number of 1, the next, a minor number of 2, and so on. This is how
one logical device will be kept descrete from the others, even though their
major numbers are the same. For our first device driver, we'll support only
one minor device (minor number 0).

Ok. The next step will be to define some information about our read routine.
Again, this is something that "just has to be done", so we'll do it. Basically,
it sets up our to-be-defined read routine as an appropriate type of
function to be a device-driver read routine. So, now, make your driver
code look as follows (I've added comments for clarity at this point):


/* Include the header files that we'll need */
#include <sys/param.h> 	
#include <sys/systm.h>
#include <sys/ioctl.h>
#include <sys/conf.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#include <sys/kernel.h>

/* Define our MAJOR NUMBER for the device driver */
#define CDEV_MAJOR 20

/* Define our message buffer, with a prebuilt message */
static char message[] = "Wow. I really have a device driver here!\n\0";

/* Define our routines in the proper format for a device-driver */
static d_read_t fooread;


Now, you'll notice with that last line that we declared something called
"fooread" as being of some type "d_read_t". "d_read_t" is the type of 
function that the kernel expects as a device driver read routine. fooread
will be the name of our function. Note it is declared static (See above).

One note on device drivers I've failed to touch on that suddenly has come
to me. Device driver "names", in our case, "foo", can be anywhere from 1-4
characters. Most systems do not allow numbers (for reasons that will
become obvious later). Once defined, all references to that device driver
will use that name.

Anyhow, to get back on track... The next thing we have to do is set up a block
that will define our device driver for the kernel. It is basically a structure
that contains pointers to all of our routines that comprise the device driver,
plus a few other flags (that I won't get in to here). Note the use of null
and nx before the names of the routines. Using null will always make that
call "succeed" to your application (although nothing will actually get done).
using nx will always make that call "fail" to your application (again, with
nothing really getting done).

So, now we'll make our code look like this:

/* Include the header files that we'll need */
#include <sys/param.h> 	
#include <sys/systm.h>
#include <sys/ioctl.h>
#include <sys/conf.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#include <sys/kernel.h>

/* Define our MAJOR NUMBER for the device driver */
#define CDEV_MAJOR 20

/* Define our message buffer, with a prebuilt message */
static char message[] = "Wow. I really have a device driver here!\n\0";

/* Define our routines in the proper format for a device-driver */
static d_read_t fooread;

/* Define the cdewsw structure for our driver */
static struct cdevsw foo_cdevsw =
  {
    nullopen, nullclose, fooread, nxwrite,
    nxioctl, nxstop, nxreset, nxdevtotty,
    nxselect, nxmmap, NULL, "foo", NULL, -1
  };

You'll note we set the open and close routines to nullopen and nullclose,
respectively. This will allow them to always succeed, because we will not
be able to read from a device until it is "opened", and most programs will
try to close it once its done with it. Therefore, these two calls should
always succeed. You'll then note that we have fooread declared as the
read routine. Again, this is the function we'll write to actually handle
reading from our pseudo-foo device. All other functions have been set
nx..., which means that calls to these routines (such as write(), select(),
ioctl(), mmap(), etc) will all fail.

Itching to go yet? We're almost there. Two functions, and a couple of
declarations, and we'll be done. Lets look at the read routine itself now.

The read routine is passed three parameters. A dev_t structure which gives
device information, a pointer to a struct uio, which defines the transfer to
occur, and an integer flag. Since we're keeping things simple, I won't talk
about flags right away. The dev_t structure, and the uio structure, however,
are critical to our application.

The most useful (to our cause) portion of the dev_t structure will be the
minor device number. We'll need this to verify whether we have a valid device.
Also, as we move forward, and rewrite the device driver to handle more
than one pseudo-device, we'll use the minor number to make decisions as to
what buffer we'll actually manipulate.

The uio structure is a little more complicated. For now, we'll do very little
with it, other than use it to work out our read request. However, we will
eventually use two of the structures members, so I'll note them now.

The first is uio_resid. This is the number of bytes that the application
desires to read. We do not have to actually read this much, but its useful
in defining how much data we have to move.

The second is uio_offset. This is the offset in to the data stream that the
read is to take place. In our first pass, we will not use this field at all,
as we'll always return reads starting from offset 0 (for the sake of ease).
Later, we'll code so that the buffer appears to be a "ring" buffer, repeating
the message until the read request is satisfied. Future reads on the same
descriptor will also start back up where the prior read left off.

You'll note that the function uiomove forms the base of our read routine.
Basically, uimove is called with a pointer to the in-kernel data buffer,
the number of bytes to move, and the pointer to the uio structure passed to
the routine.

So, now, to define our read routine, we'll do something like this (note: I
will no longer display the full source file again until we are 100% done,
in order to save space).

static int fooread(dev_t dev, struct uio *myuio, int flag)
  {
    int result;		 /* The result of the uiomove function */
    if (minor(dev) != 0) /* If someone tries to read from other than minor # */
      return ENODEV;	 /* 0, reject the request saying there is no device */

    result = uiomove(message, MIN(myuio->uio_resid, sizeof(message)), myuio);

    return result;
  }

You'll notice that I used the MIN of either the amount the user program wanted
to read, or the size of our message. This will make both small reads work,
as well as returning short reads if they ask for a larger chunk of data.

Now, we're 80% there. The last thing we need to do is actually write the code
to set up the device, and get us up and running. Once these last two peices
are done, we can actually compile the routine, and try it out.

The next routine we'll write is the init routine, which is responsible for
"starting up" our device driver. It can be as simple as stating the driver
is loaded, or it can be very complex. In our case, since we're doing a
pseudo-device driver, and not a regular character device driver, we won't
have probe and attach routines to do the startup work, so we'll have to do
it ourselves in the init routine. Our init routine will look something like:

static void fooinit(void *unused)
  {
    dev_t dev;
    printf("foo0: Foo test character device driver installed and ready.\n");
    printf("foo0: Configured for 1 device\n");
    dev = makedev(CDEV_MAJOR,0);
    cdevsw_add(&dev, &foo_cdevsw, NULL);
  }

This routine basically will print out two lines of notification on boot up,
and then get the device set up in the kernel.

The last thing we need to do is tell the kernel (from inside the driver) what
routine has to be executed in order to get everything started, as well as give
it a "priority" for loading. As an example of "priority", you can look
at the Ethernet cards defined in the LINT kernel config file. You'll note
it says not to change the order, in order to keep them from
screwing up each other's probes... This is similar. Unless you have a very
good reason to change it, I recommend to use the default priority. With this
in mind, the following default line should work 99% of the time:

SYSINIT(foodev, SI_SUB_DRIVERS, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE+CDEV_MAJOR, &fooinit, NULL);

What does it all do? Even I don't know ;) But, it works, so use it.

Now, all thats left is some touchup. Obviously, we won't want to have our
driver load in to a kernel that doesn't have it configured in. When we run
the config utility later on, it will generate a .h file in the compilation
directory, with a file name thats the same as our device driver name.
In that header file will be a single declaration, that will consist of
a #define N*, where * is replaced with an all upper-case name of our
driver. In our case, it will be a #DEFINE NFOO n, where n is replaced
by the number of pseudo devices we configured. In this case, it should
never be more than one, but it could be. Therefore, we'll make our whole
driver look like this:

#include "foo.h"
#if NFOO > 0
/* Include the header files that we'll need */
#include <sys/param.h> 	
#include <sys/systm.h>
#include <sys/ioctl.h>
#include <sys/conf.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#include <sys/kernel.h>

/* Define our MAJOR NUMBER for the device driver */
#define CDEV_MAJOR 20

/* Define our message buffer, with a prebuilt message */
static char message[] = "Wow. I really have a device driver here!\n\0";

/* Define our routines in the proper format for a device-driver */
static d_read_t fooread;

/* Define the cdewsw structure for our driver */
static struct cdevsw foo_cdevsw =
  {
    nullopen, nullclose, fooread, nxwrite,
    nxioctl, nxstop, nxreset, nxdevtotty,
    nxselect, nxmmap, NULL, "foo", NULL, -1
  };

static int fooread(dev_t dev, struct uio *myuio, int flag)
  {
    int result;		 /* The result of the uiomove function */
    if (minor(dev) != 0) /* If someone tries to read from other than minor # */
      return ENODEV;	 /* 0, reject the request saying there is no device */

    /* Now do the real read */
    result = uiomove(message, MIN(myuio->uio_resid, sizeof(message)), myuio);

    return result;
  }

static void fooinit(void *unused)
  {
    dev_t dev; /* The device we'll create */
/* Now, put some output to the console, so we know we're here */
    printf("foo0: Foo test character device driver installed and ready.\n");
    printf("foo0: Configured for 1 device\n");
/* Actually create the device */
    dev = makedev(CDEV_MAJOR,0);
    cdevsw_add(&dev, &foo_cdevsw, NULL);
/* All done! */    
  }

/* Tell the kernel how to get us started */
SYSINIT(foodev, SI_SUB_DRIVERS, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE+CDEV_MAJOR, &fooinit, NULL);

#endif


Now, thats it for the driver. The next step is to go in to
/usr/src/sys/i386/conf. I modified majors.i386 so that character device
20 was called "foo". This was not required, but if I had other developers
working on this system, I'd want them to know I used 20 for my device
driver, and its no longer available for them to use until I'm done with it,
and change it back.

Secondly, you'll need to edit files.i386. Add the line

dev/foo/foo.c		optional	foo	device-driver

someplace in the file. I usually do it about 25-30 lines down,
where the similar looking lines start. Placement in the file is not critical,
I just like to keep things looking consistent.

Almost there. Just a couple of more things. Next, create your kernel config
file (getting real close now). Add the line:

pseudo-device foo 1

someplace to the file. This will let the kernel know you need the foo driver,
and it will tell the driver it wants one device (more on this later when
we support multiple devices).

Now config the kernel, make it as per usual, and install it as per usual. If
there are errors or problems, check your source again for typos, unterminated
comments, etc. Once you've got it compiled and installed, continue.

The last thing to do is to actually create the device in the /dev
subdirectory. So, cd to it now. The command for making a device node is
called mknod. Its standard format (according to itself when run with no
parameters) is: mknod name [b | c] major minor.

For our device driver, we'll use something like:

mknod foo0 c 20 0

Which tells it to create a device called foo0, which will be a character
device with a major number of 20, and a minor number of 0. Guess what. We're
done. Reboot the box.

You should be able to read from the device now (assuming you saw the banner
lines on startup) with cat < /dev/foo0. Your "message" will
repeat infinately, until you hit CTRL-C. Also, you should be able to make
open() calls to /dev/foo0, and read them with the read() call, as per a normal
device. Note, however, that each read() will return the message from the
beginning, and if your buffer is too small, you'll never see the end of it.
This is also true with the cat case if you make your message too long. However,
I know that cat uses a rather large buffer, so this will be difficult to do.

Next, we'll move on to solving this read issue, so you'll always get your
whole message, we'll also eventually talk about writing to your buffer (so
you can change your message), and finally, supporting multiple message buffers.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 07:53:12 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:48:06 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: X11R6.3 / Broadway?
References: <Pine.BSF.3.94.970222020625.25962A-100000@vinyl.quickweb.com> <19970222141900.UG19860@keltia.freenix.fr>
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As Ollivier Robert wrote:

> Use the XFree_6 3.2 xterm. It has colors. Use "xterm-color" as TERM value
> and you'll get Mutt with colors.

Don't forget to use

#ifdef COLOR
*customization: -color
#endif

when starting your Xserver, and provide the XTerm-color app-defaults
file -- it defines the colors, and enables the colormode resource.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 08:21:25 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:58:24 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: horus@ici.net (Horus)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: partition...
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As Horus wrote:

> I was wondering if that in the case that FreeBSD would screw something up
> on my hard drive, like erase everything, would it only affect the partition
> that it was on or the whole hard drive?

You can for sure have both... if you prefer.

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 09:45:07 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:42:27 +0100
To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch)
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@dimaga.com>
Subject: Re: Install to second hard-drive...
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org
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At 12:43 PM 2/22/97 +0100, J Wunsch wrote:
>As Mark Mayo wrote:
>
>> There's no tips in the FAQ or handbook for installing on a drive other
>> than the 1st BIOS disk... just curious how I should place the boot manager
>> in the first drive so I can boot to freeBSD (without nuking win95).
>
>You need to install the boot manager on the first drive (required),
>and maybe on the FreeBSD drive, too (optional, you can get away with a
>standard bootstrap there, or even with `dangerously dedicated' mode,
>but you won't get a menu then allowing you to toggle back and forth
>through the drives).
>
>I don't know whether booteasy can handle more than one drive.  I
>remember somebody saying that os-bs is better in this respect.

BootEasy handles it beautifully - the least work setting it up I've ever
seen.  Doesn't look as nice as some others, but work nicely.

>> Also, is there a way to use the boot floppy to boot from any drive? On my
>> system, I was able to boot from the floppy, and type:
>> 1:sd(0,a)kernel
>> 
>> and it booted fine.. just doesn't seem to work with his wd drive though. I
>
>1:wd(2,a)kernel
>
>It's the second BIOS drive (#1 aka D:), but FreeBSD takes it as wd2
>since it doesn't auto-assign the unit numbers in the wd driver, but
>rather hard-codes them into the possible device slots.

... which forced me to change the kernel (add a -1 somewhere) to be able to
get the correct root device - is there something obvious I was missing?
Changing root in the config didn't work.  (I haven't looked at the problem
for half a year+ - the system works, so no sweat)



Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 10:05:04 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702221800.LAA04811@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: ben@narcissus.ml.org (Snob Art Genre)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:00:13 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@trout.mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org
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> > I'm merely an engineer, not a political scientist.
> 
> I'm going to quote you on that next time you go off about the political
> structure of the FreeBSD organization. 

You mean when I go on about social engineering.  The only thing
political about it is the opposition.  Don't confuse political
science with applied sociology.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 10:18:37 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702221811.LAA04865@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: hmm
To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:11:56 -0700 (MST)
Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, dillon@best.net, gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu,
        top@sonic.cris.net, audit-bin@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> with p=""  
> *p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' _still_ will read a byte p[-1].

What?

	IF p = ""
	THEN *p = '\0'

by definition of ""...


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 10:20:32 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702221819.LAA04898@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: Alternatives to SYSV IPC?
To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:19:14 -0700 (MST)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970222122927.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 22, 97 12:29:27 pm
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> > ..., but what about messages?  Sockets could be used, but they just
> > provide an arbitrary stream of bytes, not discrete messages.  FIFOs
> > have the same problem, and pollute the filename space (I have the
> > same problem with using mmap() for shared memory).
> 
> What else than `an arbitrary stream of bytes' is a message?

A *framed* stream of bytes.  A reliable datagram of a given size.

> Define
> your message to be a structure, with a length and type field at the
> beginning, and type-dependant data following.

This frames the byte stream on send.  Because of the recv() does not
block for the full requested amount, it will *not* frame the receive.

The length field would not be necessary if the framing were enforced
by the transport: a receive into a buffer larger than the maximum
allowable message type that could be framed for any given transmitter
state would be sufficient.  You do a recv into the buffer, then you
dispatch based on a field dereference from the newly acquired data
(probably a type field), and dispatch the data for processing from
a big switch statement.  No additional recv's necessary.

Twiddling around SO_RCVLOWAT and SO_RCVTIMEO would only work if all
your datagrams were identically sized.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 10:59:56 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:58:47 -0800
From: Craig Shaver <craig@ProGroup.com>
Organization: Productivity Group, Inc.
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Subject: Re: Alternatives to SYSV IPC?
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J Wunsch wrote:
> 
> As Jake Hamby wrote:
> 
> > ..., but what about messages?  Sockets could be used, but they just
> > provide an arbitrary stream of bytes, not discrete messages.  FIFOs
> > have the same problem, and pollute the filename space (I have the
> > same problem with using mmap() for shared memory).
> 
> What else than `an arbitrary stream of bytes' is a message?  Define
> your message to be a structure, with a length and type field at the
> beginning, and type-dependant data following.
> 
> FIFOs (or local-domain sockets) don't pollute the name space more than
> SysV msgs did.  Remember, all that SYSVIPC created a second (and 3rd
> etc.) namespace, with an inconsitent set of programs to handle them,
> and even inconsistent attributes, IIRC.

I have built some applications that had to keep track of multiple cgi
requests that required some capability of returning a response to the
same cgi that made the request.  I used the SYSV IPC for messages.  Yes,
it is inconsistent with everything else, but it does work.  I believe
the only alternative I could come up with was UDP datagrams.  And then I
would have had to build a layer or 2 on top of that to parcel out the
responses to the correct cgi.  SYSV message queues are convenient, easy
to use, and they work.  What's the big deal here?

-- 
Craig Shaver  (craig@progroup.com) (415)390-0654 
Productivity Group POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA  94088

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 12:10:58 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:06:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Coleman <chris@bb.cc.wa.us>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Three fxp devices
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I have a machine that I want to make the gateway to our campus.  I has to
route for two physical networks.  So I am going to put three network cards
in it.  I have three Intel Ether Express pro 100b cards.  I have been
using two reliable for quite some time, when I tried to add the third, I
got a page fault panic.  I assume that this is becuase the kernel doesn't
support more than two fxp devices.  I want to know if I just need to build
a new kernel, or if I am facing some other problem that I am not aware of.

Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us)
Computer Support Technician I  (509)-766-8873
Big Bend Community College  Internet Instructor
FreeBSD Book Project:  http://www.bb.cc.wa.us/~chris/book.html
I may Be inaffective, but atleast I am good at it.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 12:31:48 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:35:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, dillon@best.net, gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu,
        top@sonic.cris.net, audit-bin@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: hmm
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On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > with p=""  
> > *p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' _still_ will read a byte p[-1].
> 
> What?
> 
> 	IF p = ""
> 	THEN *p = '\0'
> 
> by definition of ""...

but p[strlen(p) - 1] will be p[-1]
Optimization done by compiler may skip it, but depending on that will be
rather dangerous.

--
Alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 12:39:28 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:36:31 -0500
From: Randall Hopper <rhh@ct.picker.com>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Help correcting corrupted disklabel
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     2.2-ALPHA just dumped on me this afternoon.  From fdisk, the partition
table looks OK, and my OSs on other partitions work.  But I'm getting the "No
Operating System" error from my boot manager (OS/BS) when I try to boot into
FreeBSD.  I could sure use some advice.

>From the fixit disk:

     > mount /dev/wd1a /mnt
     /dev/wd1a on /mnt: Incorrect superblock

     > fsck /dev/rwd1a
     Can't open /dev/rwd1a: Invalid argument

     > disklabel wd1
     DIOCGDINFO: Invalid argument

     > fdisk wd1 
     ...(correct partition info)...

Same deal when using wd1s3 instead.

This is a sliced disk with FreeBSD on slices 3 and 4 (wd1a and wd1s3e).

I know the partition offsets, so what's the safest way to go about diagnosing
and repairing the damage?  

Does this indicate my bootblock is hosed?  Or disklabel?  And if so, what
should I run specifically to rebuild/restore it/them?  I'd love to get at
manpages, but I'm limited to text dialup in DOS now.


Thanks in advance,

Randall Hopper


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 13:07:10 1997
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Message-Id: <199702222102.OAA05142@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: hmm
To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 14:02:06 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, dillon@best.net,
        gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, top@sonic.cris.net, audit-bin@FreeBSD.ORG,
        FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970222123316.30792B-100000@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us> from "Alex Belits" at Feb 22, 97 12:35:09 pm
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> > > *p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' _still_ will read a byte p[-1].
> > 
> > What?
> > 
> > 	IF p = ""
> > 	THEN *p = '\0'
> > 
> > by definition of ""...
> 
> but p[strlen(p) - 1] will be p[-1]
> Optimization done by compiler may skip it, but depending on that will be
> rather dangerous.

&& is a McCarthy AND... if the first expression is not true, then by
definition of the C language use of the operator, the second expression
will not be evaluated.

The first expression is not true, so p[strlen(p) - 1] will never be
evaluated.

That's the whole point of having McCarthy operators, aside from lazy
people not using !0 as boolean "true" and wanting their code to still
work for fear of bitwise AND.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 13:26:53 1997
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From: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
Reply-To: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
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        top@sonic.cris.net, audit-bin@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: hmm
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On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Alex Belits wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:
> 
> > > with p=""  
> > > *p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' _still_ will read a byte p[-1].
> > 
> > What?
> > 
> > 	IF p = ""
> > 	THEN *p = '\0'
> > 
> > by definition of ""...
> 
> but p[strlen(p) - 1] will be p[-1]
> Optimization done by compiler may skip it, but depending on that will be
> rather dangerous.

 Hmm, sorry, I've not noticed that it's &&

--
Alex



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 13:27:56 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:23:13 -0500
From: Randall Hopper <rhh@ct.picker.com>
To: Mark Mayo <mark@quickweb.com>
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: X11R6.3 / Broadway?
References: <Pine.BSF.3.94.970222020625.25962A-100000@vinyl.quickweb.com>
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Mark Mayo:
 |Also, is there a port of the latest xterm? I've been trying to get mutt to
 |work in color, but to no avail. I'm guessing maybe my copy of xterm is out
 |of date (from the octoer snap, just upgraded to 2.2-GAMMA, but I don't
 |think xterm was touched..)

You can use TERM=xterm-color, or COLORTERM=y.  I use the latter because
most color term entries aren't quite up-to-snuff, and FreeBSD's (at least
when I tried it a few weeks ago with mutt/slang) was no exception.
COLORTERM gets you the TERM=xterm stability + color.

Randall Hopper

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 13:45:47 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 22:45:03 +0100
To: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@dimaga.com>
Subject: Re: hmm
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[Alex Belits]
>>> with p=""  
>>> *p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' _still_ will read a byte p[-1].

[Terry Lambert]
>> What?
>> 
>> 	IF p = ""
>> 	THEN *p = '\0'
>> 
>> by definition of ""...

[Alex Belits]
>but p[strlen(p) - 1] will be p[-1]
>Optimization done by compiler may skip it, but depending on that will be
>rather dangerous.

&& is defined as short-circuiting.  If *p == '\0' the evaluation of
p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' is guaranteed to be skipped.  Re-read your book on
C :)


Eivind Eklund perhaps@yes.no http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ eivind@freebsd.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 14:21:42 1997
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From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Help correcting corrupted disklabel
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As Randall Hopper wrote:

> Same deal when using wd1s3 instead.

(Since they are probably the same.)

> This is a sliced disk with FreeBSD on slices 3 and 4 (wd1a and wd1s3e).

wd1s3e is slice 3.  Are you sure wd1a is another slice?  I doubt, but
you didn't show us the fdisk output.

> I know the partition offsets, so what's the safest way to go about diagnosing
> and repairing the damage?

Write an entry for /etc/disktab, and then

	disklabel -Brw wd1s3 <name of entry>

> Does this indicate my bootblock is hosed?  Or disklabel?

The disklabel is embedded in the (BSD) bootblocks.  The above command
will rewrite them.  Let's hope you didn't damage the filesystem
structure itself, in this case, you should get away with the above.

I'm not sure whether `disklabel auto' will work for sliced disks, if
so, you can alternatively do:

	disklabel -Brw wd1s3 auto
	disklabel -e wd1s3        # edit partition info

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 15:17:11 1997
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Subject: Re: cvs commit:  src/contrib/gcc/config/i386 freebsd-elf.h freebsd.h
To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 00:20:16 +0100 (MET)
Cc: obrien@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.19970222201055.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Feb 22, 97 08:10:55 pm"
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According to J Wunsch:
> As David E. O'Brien wrote:
> 
> > obrien      97/02/16 12:55:34
> > 
> >   Modified:    contrib/gcc/config/i386  freebsd-elf.h freebsd.h
> >   Log:
> >   Add _BSD4_4 as a predefined symbol.
> >   Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) suggested this is the most approate symbol
> >   to use.
> >   
> >   2.2-R candidate.
> >   
> >   Revision  Changes    Path
> >   1.2       +1 -1      src/contrib/gcc/config/i386/freebsd-elf.h
> >   1.4       +1 -1      src/contrib/gcc/config/i386/freebsd.h
> 
> What ever came out of this discussion?  2.2 candidate, or dead end?

It's not really needed. What about:

==== myprogconfig.h ====

#if defined(FreeBSD) || defined(OpenBSD) || defined(NetBSD)
#define MYBSDDEF
#endif

========================

There you have your single define. It's very simple to do, and it works on
old versions of the OSes too.

Ofcourse, I don't think it hurts to have that _BSD4_4 define either.
Only thing it does is give a very minor polution to the define namespace.

Just my $0.02...
  /Mikael


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 15:27:38 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:27:25 -0800
From: obrien@NUXI.com (David O'Brien)
To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg)
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: cvs commit:  src/contrib/gcc/config/i386 freebsd-elf.h freebsd.h
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Mikael Karpberg writes:
> > >   Add _BSD4_4 as a predefined symbol.
> > 
> > What ever came out of this discussion?  2.2 candidate, or dead end?
> 
> It's not really needed. What about:
> 
> ==== myprogconfig.h ====
> 
> #if defined(FreeBSD) || defined(OpenBSD) || defined(NetBSD)
> #define MYBSDDEF
> #endif
> 
> ========================
> 
> There you have your single define. It's very simple to do, and it works on
> old versions of the OSes too.

You missed the point.  Now what happens when we have FooBSD, a take off
of one of the above?  Then the code breaks.

> Ofcourse, I don't think it hurts to have that _BSD4_4 define either.
> Only thing it does is give a very minor polution to the define namespace.

I wouldn't really call it namespace polution.  _* is not in the
programmer's namespace.  And I don't think the compiler is near exausting
the number of strings in the _* namespace.

-- 
-- David	(obrien@NUXI.com  -or-  obrien@FreeBSD.org)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 15:44:42 1997
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Subject: Re: hmm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970222123316.30792B-100000@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us> from Alex Belits at "Feb 22, 97 12:35:09 pm"
To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:07:42 +1030 (CST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, dillon@best.net,
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Alex Belits stands accused of saying:
> On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:
> 
> > > with p=""  
> > > *p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' _still_ will read a byte p[-1].
> > 
> > What?
> > 
> > 	IF p = ""
> > 	THEN *p = '\0'
> > 
> > by definition of ""...
> 
> but p[strlen(p) - 1] will be p[-1]
> Optimization done by compiler may skip it, but depending on that will be
> rather dangerous.

We just had this discussion, and as the erring party in the previous
iteration, I find myself obliged to point out that the C language
specification mandates that arguments to '&&' are evaluated
left-to-right, and that evaluation stops as soon as a conclusive
condition is met.

Thus, if *p is 0, p[-1] will _not_ be referenced.

> Alex

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 17:06:52 1997
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
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Subject: *p!='\0' (still)
To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:04:48 -0800 (PST)
Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, dillon@best.net, gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu,
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970222015956.28017B-100000@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us> from "Alex Belits" at Feb 22, 97 02:03:10 am
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Alex Belits wrote:
> 
> with p=""  
> *p != '\0' && p[strlen(p) - 1] == '[' _still_ will read a byte p[-1].
> In most of situations not dangerous, but still potentially unaccessible
> memory (sorry, I have no idea where is this ugly thing from and how p is
> allocated).

	not true.  the test *p != '\0'  fails.
	the second half of the && statement is not executed

Aspen:[14] cat /tmp/a.c
#include <stdio.h>
int
main(int argc, char *argv[]) {
        char *p = "";
        if (*p != '\0') {
                printf("passed\n");
        } else {
                printf("failed\n");
        }
}
Aspen:[15] gcc -o /tmp/a.out /tmp/a.c
Aspen:[16] /tmp/a.out
failed
Aspen:[17] uname -a 
FreeBSD Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Feb 22 19:35:37 EST 1997     jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM:/usr/src/sys/compile/ASPEN  i386


jmb

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 18:43:07 1997
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 21:37:46 -0500
To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
From: Matt Thomas <matt@lkg.dec.com>
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>The length field would not be necessary if the framing were enforced
>by the transport: a receive into a buffer larger than the maximum
>allowable message type that could be framed for any given transmitter
>state would be sufficient.  You do a recv into the buffer, then you
>dispatch based on a field dereference from the newly acquired data
>(probably a type field), and dispatch the data for processing from
>a big switch statement.  No additional recv's necessary.

This can be done today with the BSD4.4 socket framework.  With AF_LOCAL
(AF_UNIX) sockets and the use of MSG_EOR with send() and MSG_WAITALL
with recvmsg() it does work.  I've attached a small example program
(which works under FreeBSD 2.1.0 and Digital UNIX 4.0).

#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/socket.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#include <sys/un.h>
#include <sys/fcntl.h>

int
main(
    int argc,
    void **argv)
{
    int fds[2];
    struct msghdr msg;
    char buf[20];
    struct iovec iov[1];
    int cc;

    if (socketpair(AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0, fds) < 0)
	perror("socketpair");

    if (send(fds[1], "Hi ", 3, MSG_EOR) < 0)
	perror("send");
    if (send(fds[1], "There", 5, MSG_EOR) < 0)
	perror("send");
    close(fds[1]);

    bzero(&msg, sizeof(msg));
    iov[0].iov_base = buf;
    iov[0].iov_len = sizeof(buf);
    msg.msg_iov = iov;
    msg.msg_iovlen = 1;
    for (;;) {
	cc = recvmsg(fds[0], &msg, 0);
	if (cc <= 0)
	    break;
	buf[cc] = '\0';

	printf("%d: %s%s", cc, buf, msg.msg_flags & MSG_EOR ? " (EOR)\n" : "");
    }
    if (cc < 0)
	perror("recvmsg");
    putchar('\n');
}


-- 
Matt Thomas               Internet:   matt@3am-software.com
3am Software Foundry      WWW URL:
http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt.html
Westford, MA              Disclaimer: I disavow all knowledge of this message


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 19:30:44 1997
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Subject: CTPPRO?
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Has anyone managed to port CTPPRO  to FreeBSD?

Using CTPPRO, I managed to boost the thruput on my Matrox Mystique from
20MB/s to 85MB/s.

	Tnks,
	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 21:03:05 1997
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From: Mark Mayo <mark@quickweb.com>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: CTPPRO?
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On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> 
> 
> Has anyone managed to port CTPPRO  to FreeBSD?

Not that I'm aware of.. Do you have source for it?? I jst download a copy
from Toms's Hardware Guide, and there was no source :-(  I wouldn't mind
trying to write a deice driver as a little "my first device driver"
project. I have some Pascal source for "FASTVID", which as far as I know
does the same thing as CTPPRO... it's in German, but I can get a friend to
translate the comments so I know whhat it's doing.

> 
> Using CTPPRO, I managed to boost the thruput on my Matrox Mystique from
> 20MB/s to 85MB/s.
> 

Boosts my Matrox Millenium from 24MB/s to 96MB/s...

> 	Tnks,
> 	Amancio
> 
> 
-Mark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Mayo		  				mark@quickweb.com       
 RingZero Comp.  	  		   http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity 
 for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that 
 suffering reaches its supreme point.  -- Arthur Schopenhauer


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 21:09:30 1997
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how much MB is it to download from ftp and how much space does minimum
install takes up

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Feb 22 21:50:51 1997
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Subject: Re: CTPPRO? 
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             <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970222235909.146A-100000@vinyl.quickweb.com> 
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Cool,

Sorry I don't have the sources for CTPPRO nor for  FastVid.

I don't think that we need a device driver for fastvid . We can
do it in userland 8)

All you  should need to gain access to priviliged instructions is:

if (open("/dev/io", O_RDONLY) < 0) {
	printf("failed to open /dev/io \"); /* or something to that effect */

}

There are plenty of German hackers on the list . We just need one
of them to step in to translate fastvid...

	Enjoy,
	Amancio

>From The Desk Of Mark Mayo :
> On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Has anyone managed to port CTPPRO  to FreeBSD?
> 
> Not that I'm aware of.. Do you have source for it?? I jst download a copy
> from Toms's Hardware Guide, and there was no source :-(  I wouldn't mind
> trying to write a deice driver as a little "my first device driver"
> project. I have some Pascal source for "FASTVID", which as far as I know
> does the same thing as CTPPRO... it's in German, but I can get a friend to
> translate the comments so I know whhat it's doing.
> 
> > 
> > Using CTPPRO, I managed to boost the thruput on my Matrox Mystique from
> > 20MB/s to 85MB/s.
> > 
> 
> Boosts my Matrox Millenium from 24MB/s to 96MB/s...
> 
> > 	Tnks,
> > 	Amancio
> > 
> > 
> -Mark
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Mark Mayo		  				mark@quickweb.com      
 
>  RingZero Comp.  	  		   http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity 
>  for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that 
>  suffering reaches its supreme point.  -- Arthur Schopenhauer
>