From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 00:10:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA04032 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:10:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA04027 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:10:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA08482; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd008475; Sun Oct 12 07:02:55 1997 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:01:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Terry Lambert cc: bradley@dunn.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UUCP (important clarification) In-Reply-To: <199710110219.TAA10855@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk so what about mail queued to multiple domains? On Sat, 11 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > sendmail's way of queueing mail is not compatible > > with ETRN. > > This is probably more accurate. > > It's actually a pretty simple hack to sendmail to name the file based > on the destination domain, and a little more complicated to make it > queue run only on that domain. > > Actually, I have a slightly different gross hack I've used to avoid > hacking the sendmail queueing itself (still have to hack ETRN, though): > > o Under cron, grep the domain(s) you ETRN for out of the header > entries in the queue, and move them to another (domain specific) > directory. > > o Connect the ETRN up for the domain so that it uses the > -oQ > > You just have to be sure to process it frequently enough (or at the > right times) to avoid introducing a delivery latency. > > Then ETRN never runs except on files queued for a particular domain. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 02:51:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11710 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 02:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11692 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 02:51:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00803; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:15:26 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710120945.TAA00803@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Kenneth Merry cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, gibbs@plutotech.com Subject: Re: HP 7100i In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:19:09 CST." <199710101719.LAA07863@pluto.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:15:25 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (I've removed most of the cc's here, as I'm fairly sure the parties are -hackers readers.) > > Actually, I'm suggesting that the IDE interface be parallelized > with the SCSI interface. (And it isn't actually my idea -- Justin first > suggested it.) It should be possible to create an IDE transport layer that > uses a lot of the same code as the SCSI transport layer. Fair enough. That's a fairly massive undertaking though; not something I'm about to undertake on my minimal free time. 8) > The CAM-3 spec has a nice diagram of the various parts of CAM in > section 5.1, page 17. Basically, it goes like this: [diagram munged] > ------------------+---------------------------+-- > | | > | | > ------------------- --------------- > | Transport (XPT) | | Transport | > | Layer (SCSI) | | Layer (ATA) | > ------------------- --------------- > | | > ,---------------+---------------. | > | | | | > -------------- -------------- --------------- | > | SCSI (SPI) | | SCSI (FCP) | | ATAPI SIM | | > | SIM | | FC SIM | | | | > -------------- -------------- --------------- | > | | | | > | | |----------' > | | | > -------------- -------------- ------------------- > | Hardware | | Hardware | | Hardware (IDE) | > | Adapter(HA)| | Adapter(HA)| | Adapter(HA) | > -------------- -------------- ------------------- Is this more or less what you had in mind? ie. SCSI transport over ATAPI to the peripheral, sharing an adapter with the ATA transport layer? All you'll see on the ATA transport are disks, while ATAPI is likely to encompass cdroms, tapes, disks, you name it. > So, I guess one question here is how SCSI-specific is the current > transport layer? IMO, for the most part it is generic enough to handle > IDE and SCSI commands, but there are some parts that are tuned to SCSI > devices. Hmm. Do you want to do this? Is the interface out the bottom of the transport layer in the current case SCSI-specific? > There are a couple of different ways to go about adding IDE support > into CAM. One way would be to separate the transport routines that are > SCSI-specific from the main body of the transport code. Then you would > write equivalent IDE routines, and have two separate transport layers. The > IDE layer would talk to the IDE harware driver(s), and the SCSI layer would > talk to the SCSI hardware drivers. That's more or less what I've described above, I believe; correct? > One problem that comes up with this > method is that some of the peripheral drivers, notably the DA (Direct > Access) and CDROM drivers are fairly SCSI-specific. There are certainly > elements of the drivers that would apply to IDE drives, but they are also > full of SCSI commands. This seems to defy the whole idea of CAM though, doesn't it? Aren't the periperhal drivers meant to be working to some abstract model? *ponder* At any rate, the only problem with this arises with the ATA transport layer, which would have to translate accordingly. > You'd probably end up having separate IDE direct-access, > sequential-access, and possibly CDROM drivers. They would probably > somewhat similar to their SCSI counterparts. The main benefit would be > code-sharing between the transport layers. Ah, I'm with you. All you would need would be a separate ATA-specific direct-access driver; just about everything else is packet-mode ATAPI, which is basically just SCSI. > it? When he gets some time, perhaps Justin can comment on this. (He wrote > most all of the transport layer after all...so he has a better idea of the > issues that would come up in trying to get IDE devices to work with it.) I'd really like to hear about this, if you have the time Justin. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 04:46:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA15811 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 04:46:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA15806 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 04:46:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA03127; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:28:14 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710121028.LAA03127@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: catching signals... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:28:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am having the following problem with the audio driver... normally, a close() on the audio device will patiently wait for data in the playout queue to be consumed before returning. However, when a process using the audio device is aborted with a signal, it would be probably better to flush the output immediately rather than wait. The problem is, (1) how do I discriminate among these two situations in the driver ? Is there any parameter in the call to close() which allows me to make the distinction ? Even worse, (2) what do I do when there are multiple references to the same descriptor, and one is aborted ? Some time ago it was pointed out that the interface between the kernel and the device driver does not notify the driver when a reference to the device is lost, only when it is acquired through open(). So I guess for (2) there is no hope to be able to do something sensible. I am wondering, would it be reasonable to define and implement a new interface in the device driver to notify the driver about processes who reference them ? Thanks Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 05:44:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18768 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 05:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA18762 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 05:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01285; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:11:13 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710121241.WAA01285@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: catching signals... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:28:14 +0100." <199710121028.LAA03127@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:11:13 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > normally, a close() on the audio device will patiently wait for data in > the playout queue to be consumed before returning. However, when a > process using the audio device is aborted with a signal, it would be > probably better to flush the output immediately rather than wait. > > The problem is, (1) how do I discriminate among these two situations > in the driver ? Is there any parameter in the call to close() which > allows me to make the distinction ? In your close(), you are using tsleep() to wait for a wakeup(), correct? Check the return value from tsleep() for EINTR to see if you have been hit by a signal. > Even worse, (2) what do I do when there are multiple references to the same > descriptor, and one is aborted ? Your close() won't be called until the _last_ close of the device. > Some time ago it was pointed out that the interface between the kernel > and the device driver does not notify the driver when a reference to > the device is lost, only when it is acquired through open(). So I guess > for (2) there is no hope to be able to do something sensible. Correct. > I am wondering, would it be reasonable to define and implement a new > interface in the device driver to notify the driver about processes who > reference them ? Multiple consumers should talk to the sound hardware via a multiplexer/ mixer of some sort, eg. nas or something better. There doesn't seem to be any other sensible way to multiplex multiple sound device consumers anyway. ie. what's the point of having a stream output device open by more than one consumer? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 05:49:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18963 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 05:49:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from innocence.interface-business.de (innocence.interface-business.de [193.101.57.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA18955 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 05:49:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by innocence.interface-business.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with UUCP id OAA17298; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:49:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA07066; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:40:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971012144032.LF05596@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:40:32 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Cc: denny1@home.com Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. References: <199707240518.WAA09252@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199707240518.WAA09252@hub.freebsd.org>; from denny1@home.com on Jul 23, 1997 22:18:35 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is an old PR from the GNATS database. As denny1@home.com wrote: > >Number: 4154 > >Category: bin > >Synopsis: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. > I have often wished /bin/sleep could sleep for less than one second, > in the inner loop of a script which I want to slow down slightly. > Such a feature would be an extension to POSIX, which deals only > with full seconds. > This has been implemented in OpenBSD.... [Read the full details including the audit-trail in the database.] So we should decide whether to accept or reject the suggestion, but should not leave the PR lingering in `open' state when apparently nobody seems to be interested at all. So are there any proponents of the suggestion (apart from Denny himself, of course :)? Otherwise, i would like to close it as being rejected by general opinion. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 06:16:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20119 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 06:16:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA20108 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 06:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA03278; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:57:45 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710121157.MAA03278@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: catching signals... To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:57:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tlambert@primenet.com In-Reply-To: <199710121241.WAA01285@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Oct 12, 97 10:10:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The problem is, (1) how do I discriminate among these two situations > > in the driver ? Is there any parameter in the call to close() which > > allows me to make the distinction ? > > In your close(), you are using tsleep() to wait for a wakeup(), > correct? Check the return value from tsleep() for EINTR to see if you > have been hit by a signal. unfortunately the signal might occur during a previous tlseep (e.g. within a write()) and the close is called at exit by the default handler. I don't think singla persist after they are caught, right ? > > I am wondering, would it be reasonable to define and implement a new > > interface in the device driver to notify the driver about processes who > > reference them ? > > Multiple consumers should talk to the sound hardware via a multiplexer/ > mixer of some sort, eg. nas or something better. There doesn't seem > to be any other sensible way to multiplex multiple sound device > consumers anyway. ie. what's the point of having a stream output > device open by more than one consumer? /dev/audio is bidirectional :) In any case I was thinking of a general mechanism unrelated to audio, which is only one application. An external multiplexer is a viable solution but it makes you lose the nice property of being able to talk directly to the device for those tasks that the device can do directly. for video we are almost used to talk only to the x server because the hardware alone can do almost nothing, and video lends itself very well to multiplexing. For audio, multiplexing is not that easy or obvious so there are too many apps which want to talk directly to the device driver and it would be a nightmare to update them to use the external multiplexer. Of course I could hide the multiplexer behind a portal but that's another layer in the way... and for audio, timing is important. but again, I was thinking of a generic mechanism for all those cases where a device could benefit from knowing how many (or which) processes are accessing it. Cheers Luigi to the device > > mike > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 06:50:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA21581 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 06:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21571 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 06:50:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA01454 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:17:42 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710121347.XAA01454@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: catching signals... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:57:45 +0100." <199710121157.MAA03278@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:17:41 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The problem is, (1) how do I discriminate among these two situations > > > in the driver ? Is there any parameter in the call to close() which > > > allows me to make the distinction ? > > > > In your close(), you are using tsleep() to wait for a wakeup(), > > correct? Check the return value from tsleep() for EINTR to see if you > > have been hit by a signal. > > unfortunately the signal might occur during a previous tlseep (e.g. > within a write()) and the close is called at exit by the default > handler. I don't think singla persist after they are caught, right ? You are concerned about an application hanging after it has been killed by a signal, as opposed to not having the device close be stoppable. I don't think that this is something worth worrying about, TBH. You might want to consider honouring the non-blocking flag on the last-close file descriptor, but that's not a complete solution. > > Multiple consumers should talk to the sound hardware via a multiplexer/ > > mixer of some sort, eg. nas or something better. There doesn't seem > > to be any other sensible way to multiplex multiple sound device > > consumers anyway. ie. what's the point of having a stream output > > device open by more than one consumer? > > /dev/audio is bidirectional :) Sounds like a bogus compatability interface then. 8) > In any case I was thinking of a general mechanism unrelated to > audio, which is only one application. An external multiplexer is > a viable solution but it makes you lose the nice property of being > able to talk directly to the device for those tasks that the device > can do directly. Understood. I am sure that there would be interest in such a mechanism as you propose; a device should perhaps be able to indicate that every time a new reference to it is created that its open() should be called, and every time one is run down its close() should be called. Obviously this would not be the default behaviour. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 06:57:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA21922 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 06:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terra.stack.nl (terra.stack.nl [131.155.140.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21913 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 06:57:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@xaa.stack.nl) Received: from xaa.stack.nl (uucp@localhost) by terra.stack.nl (8.8.7) with UUCP id PAA15179; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:57:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by xaa.stack.nl (8.8.7/8.8.2) id PAA00425; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:29:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971012152916.52277@xaa.stack.nl> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:29:16 +0200 From: Mark Huizer To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: FreeBSD hackers , denny1@home.com Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. References: <199707240518.WAA09252@hub.freebsd.org> <19971012144032.LF05596@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19971012144032.LF05596@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Sun, Oct 12, 1997 at 02:40:32PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So we should decide whether to accept or reject the suggestion, but > should not leave the PR lingering in `open' state when apparently > nobody seems to be interested at all. > > So are there any proponents of the suggestion (apart from Denny > himself, of course :)? Otherwise, i would like to close it as being > rejected by general opinion. > I'd like it too. Is it too tough? Perhaps in 2 weeks, after finishing my graduation, I could look at it. Either you change sleep to look like: sleep [-m] NUMBER where -m means: the NUMBER is in milliseconds or you make it: sleep NUMBER[.NUMBER] where .number is the decimal part of the second. Any preferences? Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 08:14:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26566 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA26560 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 08:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA03525; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:54:39 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710121354.OAA03525@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. To: xaa@stack.nl (Mark Huizer) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:54:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, denny1@home.com In-Reply-To: <19971012152916.52277@xaa.stack.nl> from "Mark Huizer" at Oct 12, 97 03:28:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd like it too. Is it too tough? Perhaps in 2 weeks, after finishing my > graduation, I could look at it. Either you change sleep to look like: > > sleep [-m] NUMBER > > where -m means: the NUMBER is in milliseconds > > or you make it: > > sleep NUMBER[.NUMBER] > > where .number is the decimal part of the second. > > Any preferences? better the one with fractional notation, and since you are at it, make it handle microseconds or in 3-4 years with the Intel-P9 @ 2.49GHz we are going to have the same problem of not enough resolution... Cheers Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 08:49:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28433 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 08:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28408; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 08:48:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA17570; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:48:38 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:48:38 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Douglas Carmichael cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? In-Reply-To: <199710102301.SAA00400@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > Could it be done by: > > 1) Porting the "Lites" single server (http://www.cs.hut.fi/lites.html) to PowerPC Well, we wanted to run FreeBSD on the PowerMac, right? > 2) Running it under Mach (which is already used by MkLinux) Errrr.... > 3) Making the whole "world" except the kernel and libraries from FreeBSD/i386. > What would be a good name for this project? > MkFreeBSD, FreeBSD/PPC, FreeBSD/MK? ^^^^^^^^^^ Well, MkFreeBSD or FreeBSD/MK. Lets leave FreeBSD/PPC to those wanting (dreaming) of native FreeBSD running on the PPC-s. Not just PowerMacs (ok, so what that they are the dominant variety) but also CHRP and embedded PPC boards. For examples, look at PIOS-s page and Motorolas board products page. Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 09:01:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29012 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (root@coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29007 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) From: itojun@itojun.org Received: from localhost (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.8.5/3.6Wbeta6) with ESMTP id AAA10518; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:59:35 +0900 (JST) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: xaa@stack.nl (Mark Huizer), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, denny1@home.com In-reply-to: luigi's message of Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:54:38 +0100. <199710121354.OAA03525@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:59:35 +0900 Message-ID: <10514.876671975@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I'd like it too. Is it too tough? Perhaps in 2 weeks, after finishing my >> graduation, I could look at it. Either you change sleep to look like: >> sleep [-m] NUMBER >> where -m means: the NUMBER is in milliseconds >> or you make it: >> sleep NUMBER[.NUMBER] >> where .number is the decimal part of the second. >> Any preferences? >better the one with fractional notation, and since you are at it, make >it handle microseconds or in 3-4 years with the Intel-P9 @ 2.49GHz >we are going to have the same problem of not enough resolution... Is it so meaningful to provide very high resolution timing with sleep(1)? There will be error in timing due to disk access for sleep(1) binary, process fork/exec time, and so forth. IMHO, 1/10sec resolution may worth it, but beyond that becoming more and more meaningless. I have no problem with the current behavior of sleep(1). Is there any standard, like POSIX, established for sleep(1)? itojun From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 09:15:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29585 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:15:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from psv.oss.uswest.net (psv.oss.uswest.net [204.147.85.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29570 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:15:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from greg@psv.oss.uswest.net) Received: (from greg@localhost) by psv.oss.uswest.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06376; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:15:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "Greg Rowe" Message-Id: <9710121615.ZM6374@psv.oss.uswest.net> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:15:25 +0000 In-Reply-To: David Greenman "Re: fxp0 lost connectivity!" (Oct 11, 10:12am) References: <199710111712.KAA22971@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: dg@root.com Subject: Re: fxp0 lost connectivity! Cc: "'hackers@freefall.freebsd.org'" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Will this fix be part of 2.2.5 Release ? On Oct 11, 10:12am, David Greenman wrote: > >How do I fix it ? > > There is a fix in both -current and -stable that works around the hardware > bug. > > > Yes, the hardware bug is triggered by receiving certain types of garbage. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project >-- End of excerpt from David Greenman -- Greg Rowe US WEST - !NTERACT Internet Services "To err is human, to really foul up requires the root password." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 09:21:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29923 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:21:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29912 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA03647; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:02:20 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710121502.QAA03647@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. To: itojun@itojun.org Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:02:20 +0100 (MET) Cc: xaa@stack.nl, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, denny1@home.com In-Reply-To: <10514.876671975@coconut.itojun.org> from "itojun@itojun.org" at Oct 13, 97 00:59:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is it so meaningful to provide very high resolution timing with > sleep(1)? There will be error in timing due to disk access > for sleep(1) binary, process fork/exec time, and so forth. > IMHO, 1/10sec resolution may worth it, but beyond that becoming more > and more meaningless. Good point. So I made some quick tests now on a P5133 with ide disk: prova# time ps # first execution ... ps output 0.007u 0.023s 0:00.14 14.2% 358+1000k 2+0io 8pf+0w prova# time ps # second execution, so "ps" is in core ... ps output 0.014u 0.014s 0:00.03 66.6% 152+492k 0+0io 0pf+0w and... prova# time sleep 0 0.000u 0.004s 0:00.00 0.0% 0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w Considering that those who use sleep(1) with sub-second resolution presumably will run it from a warm file cache, then even nowadays it might make sense to have 1ms of resolution. After all, at every scale you look at, there is no guarantee that a process will complete within a deadline. Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 09:36:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01417 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:36:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net (punt-1d.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01406 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa0921447; 12 Oct 97 17:01 BST Received: (from dmlb@localhost) by demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.6) id MAA07466 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:59:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:14:31 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Mountd and PLIP interfaces. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a problem with starting mountd and friends on a system with a PLIP interface that is up. I use the PLIP interface to an old 486/25 laptop which doesnt have PC-Cards... Mountd doesn't start; it can't register it's RPC and fails with a "no route to host" error. Chasing through mountd and the RPC code in libc I found the problem in /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/get_myaddress.c, which returns the IP address of the first configured and running network interface that it finds. The simplicity in get_myaddress() becomes a problem with an actived PLIP link. This interface is the first to be returned by the ioctl get_myaddress() uses to probe for interfaces (SIOCGIFCONF). get_myaddress() then obtains the IP address of this interface; which is of course not reachable as PLIP is a point to point link. This problem will also manifest itself on PPP/SLIP links (with the added inconvience of causing dial-outs). Currently, I have overcome this by setting up a static route from the local end of the PLIP link to the loopback: route add 192.168.201.32 127.0.0.1 1 is this the "best" solution or should get_myaddress() check for point to point interfaces. If the latter could somebody test and commit this (untested) patch? Relative to 2.2-STABLE of a couple of weeks ago: *** get_myaddress.c Mon Nov 25 07:23:37 1996 --- /usr/home/dmlb/get_myaddress.c Sun Oct 12 12:50:17 1997 *************** *** 82,87 **** --- 82,88 ---- exit(1); } if ((ifreq.ifr_flags & IFF_UP) && + !(ifreq.ifr_flags & IFF_POINTOPOINT) && ifr->ifr_addr.sa_family == AF_INET) { *addr = *((struct sockaddr_in *)&ifr->ifr_addr); addr->sin_port = htons(PMAPPORT); Thanks Duncan ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 09:43:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01863 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01842 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03820; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710121644.JAA03820@implode.root.com> To: "Greg Rowe" cc: "'hackers@freefall.freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: fxp0 lost connectivity! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:15:25 -0000." <9710121615.ZM6374@psv.oss.uswest.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:44:31 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Will this fix be part of 2.2.5 Release ? Anything that is in 2.2-stable up until 2.2.5 is tagged will be in the release. ...so, yes. >> >How do I fix it ? >> >> There is a fix in both -current and -stable that works around the hardware >> bug. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 10:22:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03835 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:22:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03830 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:21:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07453; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:21:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA27665; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710121721.LAA27665@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <12637.876627122@time.cdrom.com> References: <12637.876627122@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ disabled probe messages ] > The only conceivable counter-argument I can see concerns the psm0 > entry which is disabled by default in the distributed GENERIC, it > being a plausible argument that the "psm0: disabled, not probed." > message at boot-time served as a much needed indicator of its disabled > state should the user actually want to have it enabled. On the other > hand, I seem to recall some folks also talking about the ps/2 mouse > driver finally reaching a level of maturity where it could just be > enabled by default, and I'd rather have that happen in any case if > it's possible. I've gotten reports that the PS/2 mouse driver still wipes out some Pentium boxes, so it's still not safe for 2.2 yet. I'm hoping that by enabling it in -current we can get more feedback and possibly find a fix so we can un-disable it in 2.2. As far as writing out 'disabled' I can see value in doing it both ways, so I have no preference. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 10:25:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04027 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04020 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07478; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA27704; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710121725.LAA27704@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <19971012085200.RM37350@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <12637.876627122@time.cdrom.com> <19971012085200.RM37350@uriah.heep.sax.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > So what do folks think, can I kill it? > > if (bootverbose) > printf("...: disabled, not probed\n", ...); I think this is a *great* idea. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 10:53:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05758 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05753 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA03475 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:52:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3471.876678779@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is just a notice that time is running out in the BETA test period and also to inform the commercial folks again that if they have demo software which they want shipped in the commercial distribution, now would really be a good time to let me know! Similarly, if you have some experimental bit of code which you'd like included in the experimental ("xperimnt") distribution, send me a URL for the tarball and a README (or a URL to the README :) and it's in. Note: Please don't submit other people's work for these collections, even if you think that they really would like to have their software distributed in that way if they only knew about the opportunity themselves. If you think that some company or individual is missing an "advertising" opportunity here, contact them instead and ask them to send me an email as requested above. Testers: Another BETA snapshot, 2.2.5-971012-BETA, will be going up on ftp.freebsd.org today. Test-installing this one is especially important as it has a fair number of installation fixes made to it and I'd like as much testing of them as possible. Folks will probably most immediately notice that the annoying display bugs in the Distribution menu have gone away. :-) I've also made the label and partition editors much more usable from multi-user mode. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 11:02:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06270 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06262; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:02:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA01073; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:02:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA12209; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:01:59 -0500 (CDT) To: freebsd hackers Cc: "Eric L. Hernes" Subject: gimp 0.99.13 From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.89) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 12 Oct 1997 13:01:58 -0500 Message-ID: <87bu0uj1wp.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 18 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I compiled gimp 0.99.13 (the latest development version) on my fbsd system (very recent FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE) and it dies before startup with: ** ERROR **: could not attach to gimp shared memory segment Now I have the appropriate shm stuff in my kernel and I was running 0.99.10 (the port) recently with no problems. Does anyone know why this happens? The obvious workaround (running gimp --no-shm and --no-xshm does work, btw). -- Steve Farrell From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 11:45:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08603 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:45:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08596; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (max19-249.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.249]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA15839; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:45:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA05432; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:45:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199710121845.NAA05432@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? In-reply-to: Message from Narvi of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:48:38 +0300." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:45:06 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If wanting Un*x on a PowerMac, I think the most likely solution will be to use BeOS or wait for Rhapsody. Both claim POSIX compliance and offer Un*x shells. The other advantage would be you can have your cake and eat it too, as you will have both Un*x and the native OS at the same time. Once Be and Apple provide the baseline, I'd hope for a port of all the good Un*x toys we all know and love. Similar to what was done for OS/2. Haven't heard any hints of an X for the new PowerMac OS's yet. Only time will tell how well this works. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 12:31:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10393 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10388 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:31:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA23822; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:31:02 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710121931.MAA23822@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: UUCP (important clarification) To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:31:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, bradley@dunn.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 12, 97 00:01:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > so what about mail queued to multiple domains? It gets a hard link. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 12:49:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11148 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:49:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11140 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:49:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA24364; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:49:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710121949.MAA24364@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Mountd and PLIP interfaces. To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk (Duncan Barclay) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:49:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Duncan Barclay" at Oct 11, 97 11:14:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a problem with starting mountd and friends on > a system with a PLIP interface that is up. I use the PLIP interface to > an old 486/25 laptop which doesnt have PC-Cards... > > Mountd doesn't start; it can't register it's RPC and fails with a > "no route to host" error. > > Chasing through mountd and the RPC code in libc I found the problem in > /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/get_myaddress.c, which returns the IP address of the > first configured and running network interface that it finds. Is the link "up"? It's probably arguable that it should return the default route's interface, at best, or not return interfaces that aren't UP,RUNNING", at worst. > *** get_myaddress.c Mon Nov 25 07:23:37 1996 > --- /usr/home/dmlb/get_myaddress.c Sun Oct 12 12:50:17 1997 > *************** > *** 82,87 **** > --- 82,88 ---- > exit(1); > } > if ((ifreq.ifr_flags & IFF_UP) && > + !(ifreq.ifr_flags & IFF_POINTOPOINT) && > ifr->ifr_addr.sa_family == AF_INET) { > *addr = *((struct sockaddr_in *)&ifr->ifr_addr); > addr->sin_port = htons(PMAPPORT); What does this do to the machine whose only interface is the parallel port? What does it return for "get_myaddress()"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 12:51:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11296 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11291 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA24422; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:51:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710121951.MAA24422@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: hoek@hwcn.org (Tim Vanderhoek) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:51:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Oct 12, 97 01:28:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > So what do folks think, can I kill it? [he said already knowing that > > at least one dissenting vote will come from bde, great champion of > > chatty kernels that he is. ;-)] > > I'd say the "strong, silent type" makes a much better kernel. :) :) Or the user can kill it by removing unused drivers from his kernel config file. How will I know I have unused drivers if I don't get this message? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 12:53:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11443 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11435 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA24438; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:53:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710121953.MAA24438@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: make world bombs out?! To: garbanzo@hooked.net (Alex) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:53:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex" at Oct 11, 97 11:13:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > After following the threads on parallel buildworlds I decided to try it > for myself. So I rm -rf'd /usr/obj (after chflags -R noschg /usr/obj), > tweaked /etc/make.conf (uncommented the CFLAGS line, as -pipe looked like > a good idea), and ran make -j2 world in /usr/src. Strangely enough it > decided that it couldn't make /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/make. After a few > make cleans, and buildworlds, I found that leaving out the -j2 seems to > allow it to build. What's the story here? Is there something else I'm > missing? Supposedly, you can do a make depend without a -j2, and if you do, it will allow a paralllel make world to succeed. Somone said they had to the the "includes in the object tree" step as well. Basically, whatever dependencies are stomping you really belong in the makefiles. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 13:04:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12185 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca (ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca [206.172.208.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12136 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA02999; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:02:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim@ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:02:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Terry Lambert cc: Tim Vanderhoek , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <199710121951.MAA24422@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > So what do folks think, can I kill it? [he said already knowing that > > > at least one dissenting vote will come from bde, great champion of > > > chatty kernels that he is. ;-)] [...] > > How will I know I have unused drivers if I don't get this message? You will make a mental note to do so when you disable them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 13:19:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12915 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:19:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12910 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:19:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA18736; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:18:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710122018.NAA18736@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. To: xaa@stack.nl (Mark Huizer) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:18:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, denny1@home.com In-Reply-To: <19971012152916.52277@xaa.stack.nl> from "Mark Huizer" at Oct 12, 97 03:29:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd like it too. Is it too tough? Perhaps in 2 weeks, after finishing my > graduation, I could look at it. Either you change sleep to look like: > > sleep [-m] NUMBER > > where -m means: the NUMBER is in milliseconds > > or you make it: > > sleep NUMBER[.NUMBER] > > where .number is the decimal part of the second. > > Any preferences? Yes. I prefer that someone else fix the man page after this patch is committed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. Index: sleep.c =================================================================== RCS file: /b/cvstree/ncvs/src/bin/sleep/sleep.c,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -c -r1.6 sleep.c *** 1.6 1997/03/28 15:24:40 --- sleep.c 1997/10/12 20:09:28 *************** *** 55,60 **** --- 55,62 ---- char *argv[]; { int ch, secs; + double fsecs; + while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "")) != -1) switch(ch) { *************** *** 68,75 **** if (argc != 1) usage(); ! if ((secs = atoi(*argv)) > 0) ! (void)sleep(secs); exit(0); } --- 70,83 ---- if (argc != 1) usage(); ! if ((fsecs = atof(*argv)) > 0) { ! secs = fsecs; ! if ((fsecs - secs) > 0) { ! unsigned int usecs = fsecs * 1000000.0; ! (void)usleep(usecs); ! } else ! (void)sleep(secs); ! } exit(0); } *************** *** 77,82 **** usage() { ! (void)fprintf(stderr, "usage: sleep seconds\n"); exit(1); } --- 85,90 ---- usage() { ! (void)fprintf(stderr, "usage: sleep seconds[.fractional_seconds]\n"); exit(1); } From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 13:20:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA13081 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:20:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13070 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:20:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA18835; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:20:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710122020.NAA18835@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:20:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, denny1@home.com In-Reply-To: <19971012144032.LF05596@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Oct 12, 97 02:40:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is an old PR from the GNATS database. > > As denny1@home.com wrote: > > > >Number: 4154 > > >Category: bin > > >Synopsis: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. > > > I have often wished /bin/sleep could sleep for less than one second, > > in the inner loop of a script which I want to slow down slightly. > > Such a feature would be an extension to POSIX, which deals only > > with full seconds. [ ... ] > > This has been implemented in OpenBSD.... Which is not, in itself, justification. 8-). > So are there any proponents of the suggestion (apart from Denny > himself, of course :)? Otherwise, i would like to close it as being > rejected by general opinion. I like it. Please apply the patch I posted in response to another message in this thread; it is a trivial change. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 13:29:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA13720 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13712 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:29:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA04613; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:28:21 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: hoek@hwcn.org (Tim Vanderhoek), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:51:27 -0000." <199710121951.MAA24422@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:28:21 -0700 Message-ID: <4608.876688101@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How will I know I have unused drivers if I don't get this message? You boot -c and you go look. Seriously. There is a method for examining the kernel's internal ISA configuration (and only ISA devs can be so disabled) just as there's a way of running strings(1) on the kernel to generate a list of RCS ids for the various things which went into building it so those bases are covered. Both can be very useful bits of information but you probably won't find many people arguing that the kernel should spit out all its RCSid strings at boot time. One man's useful information is another man's noise, and now the noise level is at least selectable. I definitely find the boot-time message *far* easier to read with this change now! It's like the difference between night and day in GENERIC, at least. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 13:40:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14770 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14765 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:40:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA20462; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd020460; Sun Oct 12 20:32:48 1997 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers , denny1@home.com Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. In-Reply-To: <19971012144032.LF05596@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Actually I support this.. I often want to do this.. (but can't) julian (yeah sounds like I'm volunteering right?) On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > This is an old PR from the GNATS database. > > As denny1@home.com wrote: > > > >Number: 4154 > > >Category: bin > > >Synopsis: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. > > > I have often wished /bin/sleep could sleep for less than one second, > > in the inner loop of a script which I want to slow down slightly. > > Such a feature would be an extension to POSIX, which deals only > > with full seconds. > > This has been implemented in OpenBSD.... > > [Read the full details including the audit-trail in the database.] > > So we should decide whether to accept or reject the suggestion, but > should not leave the PR lingering in `open' state when apparently > nobody seems to be interested at all. > > So are there any proponents of the suggestion (apart from Denny > himself, of course :)? Otherwise, i would like to close it as being > rejected by general opinion. > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 13:58:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15715 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:58:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15707 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:58:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA21013; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 13:57:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710122057.NAA21013@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: tim@ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca (Tim Vanderhoek) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:57:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hoek@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Oct 12, 97 04:02:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > So what do folks think, can I kill it? [he said already knowing that > > > > at least one dissenting vote will come from bde, great champion of > > > > chatty kernels that he is. ;-)] > [...] > > > > How will I know I have unused drivers if I don't get this message? > > You will make a mental note to do so when you disable them. What will I do if I buy a used machine with FreeBSD installed on it... telepathically copy the notebook from the guy selling it? It seems we are reaching here to eliminate a perfectly reasonable warning message from the view of people too lazy to rebuild their kernel with fewer devices. Obviously, if each driver lived in a different group of ELF sections, an ELF image archiver could remove drivers at will (assuming a fix to the linker set code for this), and the problem would be resolved. This seems to be the "right way"(tm) to do the fix. Why encourage doing something the "wrong way"(tm) when it will just have to be undone later. I suppose we can all make mental notes to undo it... yeah, that always works; there's no legacy cruft from failed mental noted in the FreeBSD kernel, no sirree! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:13:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA16399 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16394 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:13:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21916; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:13:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710122113.OAA21916@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:13:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4608.876688101@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 12, 97 01:28:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One man's useful information is another > man's noise, and now the noise level is at least selectable. I > definitely find the boot-time message *far* easier to read with this > change now! It's like the difference between night and day in > GENERIC, at least. Fie. There is a technological soloution to this problem, and a kludge should not be used. The messages are a warning that a correct fix has yet to be implemented. Removing them removes pressure to fix the thing the correct way, and encourages a climate of kludges. [ Nice word-pair alliteration, eh? ] If you remove all of the disincentives toward mediocrity, then you'll be left with, well, DOS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:17:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA16598 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:17:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca (ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca [206.172.208.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16347 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:12:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03668; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:10:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim@ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:10:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Terry Lambert cc: Tim Vanderhoek , hoek@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <199710122057.NAA21013@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > Obviously, if each driver lived in a different group of ELF sections, > an ELF image archiver could remove drivers at will (assuming a fix > to the linker set code for this), and the problem would be resolved. > This seems to be the "right way"(tm) to do the fix. Why encourage Indeed. And, from this point of view, both if(bootverbose)printf("disabled") and printf("disabled") are kludges. Given the choice between two kludges, the one which waits for you to find it would be nicer than the one which screams about itself to you on every boot... But, really, there's not a big difference. Overflow the screen with useless "disabled" messages and potentially miss an important advisory, vs. forever running a kernel with a ball and chain tied to its feet. (Or maybe just a ball chained to its feet? Hm.) -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:17:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA16617 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16605 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:17:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA22153; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:17:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710122117.OAA22153@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: ac199@hwcn.org Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:17:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, tim@ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca, hoek@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Oct 12, 97 05:10:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But, really, there's not a big difference. Overflow the screen > with useless "disabled" messages and potentially miss an > important advisory, vs. forever running a kernel with a ball and > chain tied to its feet. I'd say "useless" ``disabled''... There's always scroll-lock and dmesg (heh: "Are there no work houses, are there no prisons?"). What about the schmuck who disables his wd driver and can't figure out why his machine won't boot? 8-). It's a two-edged sword. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:22:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17072 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17064 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:22:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA05019; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:21:18 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:13:21 -0000." <199710122113.OAA21916@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:21:18 -0700 Message-ID: <5015.876691278@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Fie. There is a technological soloution to this problem, and a kludge > should not be used. The messages are a warning that a correct fix has > yet to be implemented. Removing them removes pressure to fix the thing > the correct way, and encourages a climate of kludges. Naw. The correct way to fix them involves the load-reject-and-unload dynamic driver interface you're so fond of. Then this message goes away anyhow since there's no such thing as a "disabled" driver in that context and you've really saved yourself nothing by keeping it. All it's reminding us of is the fact that we need to substantially rearchitect our device driver subsystem and we get plenty of reminders of that from other sources already. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:30:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17749 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:30:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17739 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:30:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA22722; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:30:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710122130.OAA22722@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:30:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <5015.876691278@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 12, 97 02:21:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Naw. The correct way to fix them involves the load-reject-and-unload > dynamic driver interface you're so fond of. Then this message goes > away anyhow since there's no such thing as a "disabled" driver in that > context and you've really saved yourself nothing by keeping it. All > it's reminding us of is the fact that we need to substantially > rearchitect our device driver subsystem and we get plenty of reminders > of that from other sources already. :-) Yes, but the boot messsage source is apparently the only one that's annoying enough to actually motivate anyone to actually change code. Since we've finally located the holy grail of motivation in this case, shouldn't it be used as a tool, rather than buried where no one will ever find it again? Shades of Jimmy Hoffa... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:36:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18225 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca (ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca [206.172.208.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18049 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03700; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:32:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim@ppp6575.on.sympatico.ca) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:32:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Terry Lambert cc: ac199@hwcn.org, hoek@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <199710122117.OAA22153@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > There's always scroll-lock and dmesg (heh: "Are there no work houses, > are there no prisons?"). You check dmesg for each and every time you boot your computer? Indeed, you are a better man than I! > What about the schmuck who disables his wd driver and can't figure out > why his machine won't boot? 8-). It's a two-edged sword. Hehe. If he disabled it he must not know what its use is. He doesn't know its use, so a "wd0: disabled, not probed" won't save him. Besides, only a schmuck would take action A, which has an unknown result, and assume that reaction C is unrelated. :) (Where A is disabling devices he doesn't recognize and C is a missing hdd :). -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:37:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18322 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18316 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:37:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA05280; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:30:31 -0000." <199710122130.OAA22722@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:36:29 -0700 Message-ID: <5276.876692189@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, but the boot messsage source is apparently the only one that's > annoying enough to actually motivate anyone to actually change code. Depends on your definition, I guess. Annoying enough to change code where "change code" = "do something significant about it?" No. Annoying enough to change just enough code to shut it up? Yes, sure, I agree. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:40:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18479 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:40:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18470 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:40:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA06097 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:40:26 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA02290; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:36:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971012233630.KL45613@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:36:30 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. References: <19971012144032.LF05596@uriah.heep.sax.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Oct 12, 1997 13:31:35 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > Actually I support this.. I often want to do this.. (but can't) > > julian > (yeah sounds like I'm volunteering right?) Volunteers are always accepted. ;-) Don't forget to close the PR... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:40:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18527 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:40:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@1Cust92.tnt1.manassas.va.da.uu.net [153.37.113.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18517 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:40:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) id RAA00655; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19971012174035.46037@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:40:35 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. Reply-To: hcremean@vt.edu References: <199710122057.NAA21013@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199710122057.NAA21013@usr05.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sun, Oct 12, 1997 at 08:57:30PM +0000 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Oct 12, 1997 at 08:57:30PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > So what do folks think, can I kill it? [he said already knowing that > > > > > at least one dissenting vote will come from bde, great champion of > > > > > chatty kernels that he is. ;-)] > > [...] > > > > > > How will I know I have unused drivers if I don't get this message? > > > > You will make a mental note to do so when you disable them. > > What will I do if I buy a used machine with FreeBSD installed on it... > telepathically copy the notebook from the guy selling it? > > It seems we are reaching here to eliminate a perfectly reasonable > warning message from the view of people too lazy to rebuild their > kernel with fewer devices. Okkay, time out. WHat's being proposed is the removal of the "disabled, not probed" message, NOT the "device not found" messages. Read Jordan's post again. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac Ee34/1/36 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:56:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19430 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:56:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19425 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:56:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA02214; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19971012145509.41987@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:55:09 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: how to provide bus specific probe routine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk well.. I'm working on a new bus/device code, and right now I'm trying to decide how to handle the probing of the device on the bus... right now there are a few options that we can go with: a) have one set of probe/attach/detach set per device, and have the device specific code look at the bus it's attached to and act appropriately... this would require to much code in each device that should be part of the generic bus code b) provide a way to specify which bus a set of probe/attach/detach functions belong to.. possibly taking NULL to mean try all.. this would work nicely, but end up duplicating strings (unless gcc will combine similar strings) c) possibly provide a specific structure that defines all the different bus and sets that it supports like: struct deviceinfo { char *name; int busnum; struct busspecific[busnum] { probe/attach/detach }; } personally I'm leaning to b as then we would be able to have one large listing of all supported devices along with their routines... comments? suggestions? -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 14:58:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19539 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:58:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19522 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:58:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07618; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:58:11 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:58:10 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Terry Lambert cc: Mark Huizer , joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, denny1@home.com Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. In-Reply-To: <199710122018.NAA18736@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > Yes. I prefer that someone else fix the man page after this patch is > committed. You broke /bin/sleep POSIXness with your patch (for .* fraction). Read about different sleep and usleep calls signal reaction. sleep supposed to exit immediately (POSIX requirement) while usleep not (traditional BSD). We need to fix usleep to do the same as sleep first to not break /bin/sleep -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 15:20:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20832 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20823 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA22193; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd022191; Sun Oct 12 22:18:30 1997 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:17:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Khetan Gajjar cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with 2.2.2-RELEASE machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Audience upgraded to hackers.. re: a panic at 0xf01b0384B it's in nortqr.. This is excactly the problem I see in 2.2 based machines. we have MANY in the field and occasioanally get hit by this. someohow the vm system manages to confuse things to the extent that the same process is on both the run queue and a sleep queue. I've been looking for this for more than a month and have not been able to reproduce it, It just happens randomly out in the field. I say the vm system, because there is always some connection with the swapper process. On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Khetan Gajjar wrote: > On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > > >> I can't seem to find it in the list of things. I searched for > >> f01b038c, and it wasn't there. > >give the last synbol that comes BEFORE that address. > >(numerically) > > I hope this helps. > > This is the list : > > f01b0024 T _lgdt > f01b0048 T _lidt > f01b0050 T _lldt > f01b0058 T _ltr > f01b0060 T _ssdtosd > f01b0090 T _load_cr0 > f01b0098 T _rcr0 > f01b009c T _rcr3 > f01b00a0 T _load_cr3 > f01b00a8 T _setjmp > f01b00c4 T _longjmp > f01b00e0 T ___bb_init_func > f01b00f0 T _setrunqueue > f01b00f0 F swtch.o > f01b010f t set_rt > f01b012d t set_id > f01b014b t set_nort > f01b0173 t set2 > f01b0180 T _remrq > f01b01b6 t rem1rt > f01b01df t rem2rt > f01b01e0 t rem_id > f01b01f3 t rem1id > f01b021c t rem2id > f01b021d t rem_nort > f01b023a t rem1 > f01b0263 t rem2 > f01b0264 t rem3 > f01b026a t rem3rt > f01b0273 t rem3id > f01b027c t _idle > f01b02a8 t idle_loop > f01b02e8 T _cpu_switch > f01b0335 t sw1 > f01b0336 t sw1a > f01b0364 t rt3 > f01b036c t nortqr > f01b039e t idqr > f01b03cc t id3 > f01b03d2 t swtch_com > f01b0415 t badsw > f01b041f t sw0 > f01b042c T _savectx > f01b0480 T _sysarch > f01b0480 F sys_machdep.o > f01b0490 F trap.o > f01b064c T _trap > f01b0b3c t _trap_pfault > f01b0ea8 t _trap_fatal > > --- > Khetan Gajjar - whois kg1779 | khetan@iafrica.com or khetan@os.org.za > http://chain.iafrica.com/~khetan | PGPKey : finger khetan@chain.iafrica.com > UUNET Internet Africa Support | FreeBSD enthusiast-www2.za.freebsd.org > Unix is user friendly; it's just selective about who it calls a friend! > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 15:24:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA21151 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:24:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from chain.freebsd.os.org.za (3auXwLeBWLs/NTtM22VvcIe6ucRrQAW5@chain.iafrica.com [196.7.74.174]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21093 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from khetan@chain.iafrica.com) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost) by chain.freebsd.os.org.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA01132; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:23:45 +0200 (SAT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:23:45 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar X-Sender: khetan@chain Reply-To: Khetan Gajjar To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with 2.2.2-RELEASE machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: >Audience upgraded to hackers.. Kewl :-) >re: a panic at 0xf01b0384B >it's in nortqr.. >This is excactly the problem I see in 2.2 based machines. >we have MANY in the field and occasioanally get hit by this. I get hit by this roughly every 20-30 days. Doesn't look good for the stability, when other boxes stay up for months :-( >I've been looking for this for more than a month and have not been able >to reproduce it, It just happens randomly out in the field. Noticed that too. Nothing specific sets it off. The worst kind of error - non-reproducable. --- Khetan Gajjar - whois kg1779 | khetan@iafrica.com or khetan@os.org.za http://chain.iafrica.com/~khetan | PGPKey : finger khetan@chain.iafrica.com UUNET Internet Africa Support | FreeBSD enthusiast-www2.za.freebsd.org Unix is user friendly; it's just selective about who it calls a friend! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 15:50:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24617 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24592 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:50:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA22621; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd022618; Sun Oct 12 22:40:24 1997 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:39:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Khetan Gajjar cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with 2.2.2-RELEASE machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk try compiling with option DIAGNOSTIC with a new 2.2.x kernel (you should only need to grab a new kernel tree) I have a test in the generic 2.2.x kernel that looks for this. (alternatively, simply grab kern_synch.c from the web site and put in the DIAGNOSTIC section of tsleep() to your own kernel tree and recompile. (if you leave out the #if DIAGNOSTIC you can just recompile that file) do you know what make of processor you have? It may be that this is only on 486DX4 machines. julian On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Khetan Gajjar wrote: > On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > > >Audience upgraded to hackers.. > > Kewl :-) > > >re: a panic at 0xf01b0384B > >it's in nortqr.. > >This is excactly the problem I see in 2.2 based machines. > >we have MANY in the field and occasioanally get hit by this. > > I get hit by this roughly every 20-30 days. Doesn't look good for > the stability, when other boxes stay up for months :-( > > >I've been looking for this for more than a month and have not been able > >to reproduce it, It just happens randomly out in the field. > > Noticed that too. Nothing specific sets it off. The worst kind > of error - non-reproducable. > --- > Khetan Gajjar - whois kg1779 | khetan@iafrica.com or khetan@os.org.za > http://chain.iafrica.com/~khetan | PGPKey : finger khetan@chain.iafrica.com > UUNET Internet Africa Support | FreeBSD enthusiast-www2.za.freebsd.org > Unix is user friendly; it's just selective about who it calls a friend! > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 15:53:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25316 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (tibet-47.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.9.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25276 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:53:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16702 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:54:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:54:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org Reply-To: Alex To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <4608.876688101@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > RCSid strings at boot time. One man's useful information is another > man's noise, and now the noise level is at least selectable. I > definitely find the boot-time message *far* easier to read with this > change now! It's like the difference between night and day in > GENERIC, at least. What changing it to #ifdef VERBOSE_PROBES printf("fnord0: disabled, not probed.\n"); #else if (bootverbose) printf("fnord0: disabled, not probed.\n"); #endif so that you could get either behavior, depending on your taste? - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 16:02:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA25697 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:02:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25688 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.46]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA26426 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:05:34 +0500 Message-ID: <344171EF.65BE@asme.org> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:57:20 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Slowlaris' Driver Development Site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A gift from SUN? I found the following information at SUN's web: __________________ As part of Sun's continuing support for Solaris driver developers, Sun is providing device drivers, documentation, and development tools FREE of charge via a new Driver Development Site (DDS). This site replaces the old Driver Development Kit (DDK). The Solaris Driver Development Site can be found at http://www.sun.com/developers/driver/ __________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:03:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29711 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29705 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:03:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09864; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:03:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA29204; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710130003.SAA29204@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <199710122057.NAA21013@usr05.primenet.com> References: <199710122057.NAA21013@usr05.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > How will I know I have unused drivers if I don't get this message? > > > > You will make a mental note to do so when you disable them. > > What will I do if I buy a used machine with FreeBSD installed on it... > telepathically copy the notebook from the guy selling it? Now you're being silly. You boot into configuration mode, where you have access to all of the drivers that were compiled in. If 'config' mode wasn't compiled it, it doesn't matter what drivers were compiled in and disabled since you can't re-enable them in any case. Case closed. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:05:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29908 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29903 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA02085; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:05:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130005.RAA02085@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: ac199@hwcn.org Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:05:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hoek@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Oct 12, 97 05:32:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There's always scroll-lock and dmesg (heh: "Are there no work houses, > > are there no prisons?"). > > You check dmesg for each and every time you boot your computer? > Indeed, you are a better man than I! No, I check it if I have unexplained problems. Besides, I learned to read the significant stuff scrolling at 19.2 a long time ago... 8-). > Besides, only a schmuck would take action A, which has an unknown > result, and assume that reaction C is unrelated. :) (Where A is > disabling devices he doesn't recognize and C is a missing hdd :). I'd agree, except for "device npx0 ..." shoots a whole in your thesis. It claims to be optional (by having a line in the configuration file, it is implied that it need not be configured in a minimal kernel). If the entire source tree were internally consistent, then you'd have a case. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:07:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00161 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00153 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:07:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA02182; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:07:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130007.RAA02182@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:07:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <5276.876692189@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 12, 97 02:36:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Yes, but the boot messsage source is apparently the only one that's > > annoying enough to actually motivate anyone to actually change code. > > Depends on your definition, I guess. Annoying enough to change code > where "change code" = "do something significant about it?" No. > Annoying enough to change just enough code to shut it up? Yes, > sure, I agree. :-) So would the combined annoyance of its existance copuled with the annoyance of not shutting it up when it's possible to kludge it to shut it up be enought to put it over the "do something significant about it" threshold? How about combining both of those with discussions like this one? 8-) 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:10:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00326 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:10:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00321 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:10:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA02387; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:10:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130010.RAA02387@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: wish /bin/sleep handled fractions of a second. To: ache@nagual.pp.ru (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:10:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, xaa@stack.nl, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, denny1@home.com In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=" at Oct 13, 97 01:58:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Yes. I prefer that someone else fix the man page after this patch is > > committed. > > You broke /bin/sleep POSIXness with your patch (for .* fraction). Read > about different sleep and usleep calls signal reaction. sleep supposed to > exit immediately (POSIX requirement) while usleep not (traditional BSD). > We need to fix usleep to do the same as sleep first to not break > /bin/sleep It's usleep that's broken, it's usleep that needs fixed, IMO. A fixed usleep is the most correct action. Note that it only inconveniences people who use the non-POSIX extension, yet expect POSIX behaviour. I can live with tha until usleep is fixed. Probably the patch should be committed and a PR submitted against usleep() for not following POLA with regard to how it acts relative to other members of its immediate family (ie: sleep()). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:14:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00489 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:14:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00482 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15617; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16647; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:15:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:15:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca To: Alex cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Alex wrote: > What changing it to > > #ifdef VERBOSE_PROBES > printf("fnord0: disabled, not probed.\n"); > #else > if (bootverbose) > printf("fnord0: disabled, not probed.\n"); > #endif > > so that you could get either behavior, depending on your taste? So people who don't compile their own kernels (ie. the people affected by jkh's change) get to choose? :) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:27:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00897 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:27:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00891 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:27:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03047; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:27:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130027.RAA03047@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: hcremean@vt.edu Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:27:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971012174035.46037@wakky.dyn.ml.org> from "Lee Cremeans" at Oct 12, 97 05:40:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What will I do if I buy a used machine with FreeBSD installed on it... > > telepathically copy the notebook from the guy selling it? > > > > It seems we are reaching here to eliminate a perfectly reasonable > > warning message from the view of people too lazy to rebuild their > > kernel with fewer devices. > > > Okkay, time out. WHat's being proposed is the removal of the "disabled, not > probed" message, NOT the "device not found" messages. Read Jordan's post > again. Actually, the "disabled, not probed" messsages in the non-verbose case. I *did* read the message, and I still object to it. As long as they are there, they are an incentive to improve the general state of the code. If they aren't there, they are another kludge that will have to be undone if (or when) the code is corrected. There is a lot of code that falls into this category in the kernel; and a lot of code that is "dead" now that fixes have gone in, but has never been removed because someone kludged it to keep its mouth shut early on. If it has an open mount, we know it needs a fix; if it doesn't, we won't know to dike it out if the fix comes regardless of the code (generally, architectural fixes fix a lot of code, and only the "mouthy" code gets diked out as a result -- we have a "code completeness" problem here which making the "not probed" messsages silent will only complicate. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:28:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01092 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:28:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01087 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:28:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03087; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:28:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130028.RAA03087@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: how to provide bus specific probe routine To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:28:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971012145509.41987@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from "John-Mark Gurney" at Oct 12, 97 02:55:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > b) provide a way to specify which bus a set of probe/attach/detach > functions belong to.. possibly taking NULL to mean try all.. > this would work nicely, but end up duplicating strings (unless > gcc will combine similar strings) [ ... ] > personally I'm leaning to b as then we would be able to have one large > listing of all supported devices along with their routines... > > comments? suggestions? Reference the strings by pointers so they are shared. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:31:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01250 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:31:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01245 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:31:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03265; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:31:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130031.RAA03265@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Problem with 2.2.2-RELEASE machine To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:31:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: khetan@iafrica.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 12, 97 03:17:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Audience upgraded to hackers.. > > re: a panic at 0xf01b0384B > it's in nortqr.. > This is excactly the problem I see in 2.2 based machines. > we have MANY in the field and occasioanally get hit by this. > > > someohow the vm system manages to confuse things > to the extent that the same process is on both the run queue > and a sleep queue. I think this can happen in an M_WAIT allocation in some circumstances (the vnode allocation code that is the antecedent to vclean is one of them). I'm sorry, but I don't have any specific recommendations for the trace you provided. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:39:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01750 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:39:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01743 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:39:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17649; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA19536; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:39:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:39:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca To: Terry Lambert cc: hoek@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <199710130005.RAA02085@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > You check dmesg for each and every time you boot your computer? > > Indeed, you are a better man than I! > > No, I check it if I have unexplained problems. Besides, I learned to > read the significant stuff scrolling at 19.2 a long time ago... 8-). Which means you don't fix things until _after_ you've had unexplained problems... > > Besides, only a schmuck would take action A, which has an unknown > > result, and assume that reaction C is unrelated. :) (Where A is > > disabling devices he doesn't recognize and C is a missing hdd :). > > I'd agree, except for "device npx0 ..." shoots a whole in your thesis. > It claims to be optional (by having a line in the configuration file, > it is implied that it need not be configured in a minimal kernel). It's a good thing we weren't discussing kernel configuration files, then! :) > If the entire source tree were internally consistent, then you'd > have a case. Regardless of wether I have a case or not (I happen to think that in the specific instance I do -- someone brand new to the OS should assume that things going wrong are their fault and not the result of an `internally inconsistent' OS) little Johnny is still not going to benefit from a thousand or so "disabled, not probed" messages. Hm. Come to think of it, Johnny might not be aware of the dmesg command or scrollback capabilities, making it all the more important that only truly relevent information is spewed forth at him. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 17:54:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02629 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@1Cust92.tnt1.manassas.va.da.uu.net [153.37.113.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02617 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) id UAA01382; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19971012205422.01929@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:54:22 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. Reply-To: hcremean@vt.edu References: <19971012174035.46037@wakky.dyn.ml.org> <199710130027.RAA03047@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199710130027.RAA03047@usr05.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mon, Oct 13, 1997 at 12:27:09AM +0000 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Oct 13, 1997 at 12:27:09AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > What will I do if I buy a used machine with FreeBSD installed on it... > > > telepathically copy the notebook from the guy selling it? > > > > > > It seems we are reaching here to eliminate a perfectly reasonable > > > warning message from the view of people too lazy to rebuild their > > > kernel with fewer devices. > > > > > > Okkay, time out. WHat's being proposed is the removal of the "disabled, not > > probed" message, NOT the "device not found" messages. Read Jordan's post > > again. > > Actually, the "disabled, not probed" messsages in the non-verbose case. Okkay, I saw that... > There is a lot of code that falls into this category in the kernel; > and a lot of code that is "dead" now that fixes have gone in, but > has never been removed because someone kludged it to keep its mouth > shut early on. If it has an open mount, we know it needs a fix; if > it doesn't, we won't know to dike it out if the fix comes regardless > of the code (generally, architectural fixes fix a lot of code, and only > the "mouthy" code gets diked out as a result -- we have a "code > completeness" problem here which making the "not probed" messsages > silent will only complicate. 8-(. I see where you're coming from now; in this case, hiding the silence option behind a #define may be a better idea. I'm not much of a kernel hacker, tho, so... -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac Ee34/1/36 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 18:04:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA03363 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:04:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03354 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04724; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:04:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130104.SAA04724@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: hoek@hwcn.org (Tim Vanderhoek) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:04:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hoek@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Oct 12, 97 08:39:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No, I check it if I have unexplained problems. Besides, I learned to > > read the significant stuff scrolling at 19.2 a long time ago... 8-). > > Which means you don't fix things until _after_ you've had > unexplained problems... I tried it the other way, but it just didn't work out; everyone called it "research" for some reason. 8-) 8-). > Regardless of wether I have a case or not (I happen to think that > in the specific instance I do -- someone brand new to the OS > should assume that things going wrong are their fault and not the > result of an `internally inconsistent' OS) little Johnny is still > not going to benefit from a thousand or so "disabled, not probed" > messages. > > Hm. Come to think of it, Johnny might not be aware of the dmesg > command or scrollback capabilities, making it all the more > important that only truly relevent information is spewed forth at > him. I think "Little Johnny" will be more interested in a login prompt than if his probe messages say "disabled" or whatever... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 18:22:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04496 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:22:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04490 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:22:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA00293 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:25:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199710130125.UAA00293@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:25:29 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a network)? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 18:30:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05100 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:30:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05095 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22174; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25755; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:31:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:31:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca To: Terry Lambert cc: Tim Vanderhoek , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <199710130104.SAA04724@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Which means you don't fix things until _after_ you've had > > unexplained problems... > > I tried it the other way, but it just didn't work out; everyone called > it "research" for some reason. 8-) 8-). Haha! :) Perhaps if more things went wrong more often we would all do a lot more research, and the world would be a lot better for it... :) > > Hm. Come to think of it, Johnny might not be aware of the dmesg > > command or scrollback capabilities, making it all the more > > important that only truly relevent information is spewed forth at > > him. > > I think "Little Johnny" will be more interested in a login prompt than > if his probe messages say "disabled" or whatever... Great! So we agree then that it is more important to show Johnny messages which will impair his ability to login than to show him (relatively) meaningless "disabled" messages. :) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 18:54:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06097 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr03.primenet.com (tlambert@usr03.primenet.com [206.165.6.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06084 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr03.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr03.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA09040; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:53:57 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130153.SAA09040@usr03.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: hoek@hwcn.org (Tim Vanderhoek) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:53:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hoek@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Oct 12, 97 09:31:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I think "Little Johnny" will be more interested in a login prompt than > > if his probe messages say "disabled" or whatever... > > Great! So we agree then that it is more important to show Johnny > messages which will impair his ability to login than to show him > (relatively) meaningless "disabled" messages. :) If he's going to ignore "disbled" messages in favor of "login", then all he cares about is "login:". That means he can get any number of messsages prior to "login:", and it won't matter. This argues *for* "disabled" messages (they will be ingnored anyway). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 19:06:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06587 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:06:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06582 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:06:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA19359; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:06:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: Douglas Carmichael cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710130125.UAA00293@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards > FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up > to a network)? Are you willing to spend the money required to have it evaluated? Evaluation is not a inexpensive matter (500k - 1m is around the number, I believe). It probably conforms to a good deal of c2 at present. It will not conform to B1 or above without a _lot_ of modifications. The network thing is really irrelevant. Unless you run the exact same hardware configuration, your machine would not be c2 (or whatever) anyways. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 19:08:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06763 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:08:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06757 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:08:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA26458; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:08:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00158; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:09:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:09:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: Tim Vanderhoek To: Terry Lambert cc: Tim Vanderhoek , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <199710130153.SAA09040@usr03.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > If he's going to ignore "disbled" messages in favor of "login", > then all he cares about is "login:". That means he can get any > number of messsages prior to "login:", and it won't matter. This > argues *for* "disabled" messages (they will be ingnored anyway). We never said he was ignoring "disabled" messages, but rather that he lacked the skills to retrieve the whole list of messages spewed forth. Our conclusion was then that it would be best only to print messages which could impact his ability to get to "login:". (Recall that if he has disabled devices he should already be aware of the possibility that his action negatively influenced his login ability). Of course, in one respect we have come full circle and you could now bring your "I bought a laptop" question back. I would suggest that if you bought a laptop so badly configured that it does not even reach a login: prompt, you should re-install FreeBSD, fresh. In fact, you should do that anyways. Who knows what booby traps have been set-up in the old OS. It would be reckless of FreeBSD to encourage people to do otherwise. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 19:19:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07293 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (tibet-42.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.9.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07233 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:17:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00822; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:17:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:17:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Alex wrote: > > > What changing it to > > > > #ifdef VERBOSE_PROBES > > printf("fnord0: disabled, not probed.\n"); > > #else > > if (bootverbose) > > printf("fnord0: disabled, not probed.\n"); > > #endif > > > > so that you could get either behavior, depending on your taste? > > So people who don't compile their own kernels (ie. the people > affected by jkh's change) get to choose? :) Or with #ifndef one could make it go the other way. I'd prefer the first myself, as if something's disabled, I don't want to know about it, as I probably disabled it in the first place. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 19:20:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07481 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:20:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA07458 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 3022 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Oct 1997 02:20:49 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-100797 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199710130125.UAA00293@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Douglas Carmichael Subject: RE: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Douglas Carmichael; On 13-Oct-97 you wrote: > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards > FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a > network)? Last I checked (looooong time ago), Unix had the same problem. TCP/IP was, at the time, inhenerntly un-Orangable. BTW, How did the problem of cut and paste between windows get solved? --- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 19:37:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08369 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:37:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08364 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:37:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA01670; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:43:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710130243.EAA01670@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: catching signals... In-Reply-To: <199710121241.WAA01285@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Oct 12, 97 10:11:13 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:43:15 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Mike Smith: [...] > Multiple consumers should talk to the sound hardware via a multiplexer/ > mixer of some sort, eg. nas or something better. There doesn't seem > to be any other sensible way to multiplex multiple sound device > consumers anyway. ie. what's the point of having a stream output > device open by more than one consumer? It seems very useful to me... Like my mp3 player playing music, and my alarm clock, or something like a "windows emulator" (make-annoying-sounds- -as-soon-as-the-user-does-anything-in-an-attempt-to-make-user-go-mad sounds) trying to play a sound at the same time, while my recording program is trying to record something from a mic, or stereo, or something. Not even the "conflicting" use (two outputs) should cause a problem. Then should be automatically mixed in /dev/audio, me thinks. It doesn't seem illogical to me. Specially if you have a nice DSP soundcard that could do it automagically. No? /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 19:39:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08437 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:39:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rh173-26.reshall.ucsd.edu (rh173-26.reshall.ucsd.edu [128.54.173.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08432 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taco@mad.scientist.com) Received: from jaguar.atcg.com (localhost.ucsd.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by rh173-26.reshall.ucsd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA24638; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <344189DD.3B54AFBF@mad.scientist.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:39:25 -0700 From: "Todd \"Taco\" Hansen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. References: <199710130153.SAA09040@usr03.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am more of a programmer than anything else, but occasionally I have to do system admin stuff on various FreeBSd boxes. Even some that I have never seen before. I find the disabled, not probed messages very useful. They are usually not very long and it makes it very convienent to be looking for a problem and to just view dmesg and look to make sure the device was detected. If it says disabled, not probed, then you know quick and easy what is up. The whole reason for showing all of the boot information is to allow an experienced user to see what is wrong. For a new user they just look for a login prompt anyway. This output is very useful. If windows 95 freezes up on boot, you don't always know exactly where it froze. As with FreeBSd you can usually tell what device it was working on (if you know the boot order). I don't know, I find it a great convience and I think it should be kept until there is another method by which the kernel is configured. After all, what can extra verbosity hurt? (perhaps I shouldn't ask that). Anyway, that is my 2 cents. -taco -- Todd Hansen, KD6YPS (Taco) taco@mad.scientist.com http://millenium.atcg.com/ "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive...it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it" - Declaration Of Independence From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 21:06:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12891 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:06:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12858 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:05:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09533; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA15308; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:06:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:06:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca To: "Todd \"Taco\" Hansen" cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: <344189DD.3B54AFBF@mad.scientist.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Todd "Taco" Hansen wrote: > device was detected. If it says disabled, not probed, then you know > quick and easy what is up. The whole reason for showing all of the boot If it _doesn't_ say "detected, configured as blah_blah" you know quick and easy what is up. It it doesn't say "disabled, not probed", that could just as easily mean "not compiled into the kernel" as "detected and working correctly". > useful. If windows 95 freezes up on boot, you don't always know exactly > where it froze. As with FreeBSd you can usually tell what device it was > working on (if you know the boot order). I don't know, I find it a great FreeBSD is never going to freeze on a "disabled, not probed" device unless things are really really screwed up. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 21:13:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13497 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:13:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13488 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:13:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01497; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710130413.VAA01497@rah.star-gate.com> To: Simon Shapiro cc: Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:20:48 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:13:01 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The problem is solvable and I work on trusted systems (B1) every day. Almost said I work in trusted system (sight...) So to the original question : the answer is yes and it is not a quick hack affair. Amancio >From The Desk Of Simon Shapiro : > > Hi Douglas Carmichael; On 13-Oct-97 you wrote: > > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards > > FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a > > network)? > > Last I checked (looooong time ago), Unix had the same problem. TCP/IP was, > at the time, inhenerntly un-Orangable. > > BTW, How did the problem of cut and paste between windows get solved? > > --- > > > Sincerely Yours, > > Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom > Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 > Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 21:57:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16583 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:57:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (ken@mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16576 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10342; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:57:03 -0600 (MDT) From: Kenneth Merry Message-Id: <199710130457.WAA10342@pluto.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: HP 7100i In-Reply-To: <199710120945.TAA00803@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Oct 12, 97 07:15:25 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Cc: ken@plutotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, gibbs@plutotech.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Smith wrote... > > The CAM-3 spec has a nice diagram of the various parts of CAM in > > section 5.1, page 17. Basically, it goes like this: > > [diagram munged] > > > ------------------+---------------------------+-- > > | | > > | | > > ------------------- --------------- > > | Transport (XPT) | | Transport | > > | Layer (SCSI) | | Layer (ATA) | > > ------------------- --------------- > > | | > > ,---------------+---------------. | > > | | | | > > -------------- -------------- --------------- | > > | SCSI (SPI) | | SCSI (FCP) | | ATAPI SIM | | > > | SIM | | FC SIM | | | | > > -------------- -------------- --------------- | > > | | | | > > | | |----------' > > | | | > > -------------- -------------- ------------------- > > | Hardware | | Hardware | | Hardware (IDE) | > > | Adapter(HA)| | Adapter(HA)| | Adapter(HA) | > > -------------- -------------- ------------------- > Is this more or less what you had in mind? ie. SCSI transport over > ATAPI to the peripheral, sharing an adapter with the ATA transport > layer? All you'll see on the ATA transport are disks, while ATAPI is > likely to encompass cdroms, tapes, disks, you name it. Hmm. I really don't know enough about IDE to really say how it should go. I guess the question to ask is, what exactly is the difference between ATA and ATAPI? In any case, the transport layer doesn't talk directly to the hardware, it talks to the SIM (System Interface Module) layer. 'SIM' is really just another way to say device driver. If ATAPI is really almost like SCSI, and IDE disks have to talk ATA, you could probably get away with something like the diagram below. The _______________ _______________ | Application | | Application | --------------- --------------- | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | OS | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | | | ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------- ----------- ----------- | Disk | | Tape | | CDROM | | passthru| | Network | |IDE | | Driver | | Driver | | Driver | | Driver | | Driver | |Disk Drvr| ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------- ----------- ----------- | | | | | | ------------------|------------------------------------------ | | ------------------- | Transport (XPT) | | Layer | ------------------- | ------------------------------------------------------ | | | | -------------- -------------- ------------------- ------------------ | SCSI (SPI) | | SCSI (FCP) | | Network | | SCSI-to-ATAPI | | SIM | | FC SIM | | Interconnect SIM| | Translation ** | -------------- -------------- ------------------- ------------------ | | | | | |<----------------| ------------ | | | | IDE SIM | -------------- -------------- -------------- ------------ | Hardware | | Hardware | | Hardware | | | Adapter(HA)| | Adapter(HA)| | Adapter(HA)| ------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- |Hardware | |Adapter(HA)| -------------- (**): The SCSI-to-ATAPI translation would only be for transactions going from a SCSI peripheral driver to an ATAPI peripheral. Transactions coming from the IDE/ATA disk driver wouldn't need to be translated. Disclaimer: I know very little about IDE, ATA, ATAPI, etc... > > So, I guess one question here is how SCSI-specific is the current > > transport layer? IMO, for the most part it is generic enough to handle > > IDE and SCSI commands, but there are some parts that are tuned to SCSI > > devices. > Hmm. Do you want to do this? Is the interface out the bottom of the > transport layer in the current case SCSI-specific? [ I'm treading on thin ice here, Justin knows more of what's going on in this department ] I don't think the interface going out of or coming into the transport layer is SCSI-specific. However, think there are some assumptions that are SCSI specific, like the device probe stuff. The transport layer assumes that it is going to get a SCSI inquiry data structure back. I don't know what you get back from an IDE drive at probe time. Do I want to write the code? Not really. Aside from time constraints, I pulled the last two IDE drives out of one of my machines a couple of months ago. So I don't even have the hardware to test it on. > > There are a couple of different ways to go about adding IDE support > > into CAM. One way would be to separate the transport routines that are > > SCSI-specific from the main body of the transport code. Then you would > > write equivalent IDE routines, and have two separate transport layers. The > > IDE layer would talk to the IDE harware driver(s), and the SCSI layer would > > talk to the SCSI hardware drivers. > > That's more or less what I've described above, I believe; correct? Yes, almost. The ATA/IDE transport layer would talk to the hardware driver instead of the hardware. > > One problem that comes up with this > > method is that some of the peripheral drivers, notably the DA (Direct > > Access) and CDROM drivers are fairly SCSI-specific. There are certainly > > elements of the drivers that would apply to IDE drives, but they are also > > full of SCSI commands. > This seems to defy the whole idea of CAM though, doesn't it? Aren't > the periperhal drivers meant to be working to some abstract model? > *ponder* Well, maybe, maybe not. At some point, you have to translate the general notion of what a drive is to do back into something the device can understand. The CAM spec does seem to assume that there will be a distinct ATA disk driver. > At any rate, the only problem with this arises with the ATA transport > layer, which would have to translate accordingly. After reading a little in the CAM spec, it seems like they think the transport layer should understand both SCSI and ATA. I think the current FreeBSD CAM transport layer could be made to understand ATA. > > You'd probably end up having separate IDE direct-access, > > sequential-access, and possibly CDROM drivers. They would probably > > somewhat similar to their SCSI counterparts. The main benefit would be > > code-sharing between the transport layers. > Ah, I'm with you. All you would need would be a separate ATA-specific > direct-access driver; just about everything else is packet-mode ATAPI, > which is basically just SCSI. Hmm. In that case, my diagram above might work, or it might not. It may be possible to just put code in the current transport layer so that it understands ATA devices. Getting IDE devices working with CAM will most likely take the following on the part of the coder: 1) An understanding of what parts of the current transport layer are SCSI-specific, and therefore need to be changed to accomodate either IDE or SCSI devices. 2) A good idea of the similarities between ATAPI and SCSI. This is necessary to know how to translate between ATAPI and SCSI. A look at the NetBSD code might be a good idea for this. 3) Enough knowledge of IDE and CAM to write the IDE/ATA disk driver and the IDE hardware driver. A lot of this code can probably be snarfed from code that's already written. So the task is definitely feasible, it'll just take someone with time and the willingness to learn the pieces of the above puzzle that they don't already know. :) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 22:44:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19572 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19554; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:44:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA02430; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:44:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:44:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? In-Reply-To: <199710121845.NAA05432@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > If wanting Un*x on a PowerMac, I think the most likely solution will be > to use BeOS or wait for Rhapsody. Both claim POSIX compliance and offer > Un*x shells. The other advantage would be you can have your cake and > eat it too, as you will have both Un*x and the native OS at the same > time. > > Once Be and Apple provide the baseline, I'd hope for a port of all the > good Un*x toys we all know and love. Similar to what was done for OS/2. > Haven't heard any hints of an X for the new PowerMac OS's yet. > Last I heard Net/OPenBSD had support for PowerPC processors; it was a little shaky, and had some problems with bootup at some points, but it ran. I dunno; look at their respective websites, www.{open|net}bsd.org. > Only time will tell how well this works. > > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net > ===================================================================== > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * FreeBSD: turning PCs into workstations * | Windows: turning workstations into typewriters | * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 23:49:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22998 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:49:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22992 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00568; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:13:08 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710130643.QAA00568@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Kenneth Merry cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, gibbs@plutotech.com Subject: IDE, ATAPI & CAM (was Re: HP 7100i) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:57:02 CST." <199710130457.WAA10342@pluto.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:13:07 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Mike Smith wrote... > Hmm. I really don't know enough about IDE to really say how it > should go. I guess the question to ask is, what exactly is the difference > between ATA and ATAPI? It's easier to address the opposite: what do ATA and ATAPI have in common? The answer is "the hardware interface". (Note that I should qualify this a little; by "atapi" I mean "devices using the SFF8020 'packet' interface). > In any case, the transport layer doesn't talk directly to the > hardware, it talks to the SIM (System Interface Module) layer. 'SIM' is > really just another way to say device driver. OK. In this case, the transport layer is basically just a switch that connects a request from a driver with the appropriate SIM (plus queueing, error retry, etc.). Correct? > If ATAPI is really almost like SCSI, and IDE disks have to talk > ATA, you could probably get away with something like the diagram below. > > > _______________ _______________ > | Application | | Application | > --------------- --------------- > | | > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > | OS | > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > | | | | | | > ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------- ----------- ----------- > | Disk | | Tape | | CDROM | | passthru| | Network | |IDE | > | Driver | | Driver | | Driver | | Driver | | Driver | |Disk Drvr| > ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------- ----------- ----------- > | | | | | | > ------------------|------------------------------------------ > | > | > ------------------- > | Transport (XPT) | > | Layer | > ------------------- > | > ------------------------------------------------------ > | | | | > -------------- -------------- ------------------- ------------------ > | SCSI (SPI) | | SCSI (FCP) | | Network | | SCSI-to-ATAPI | > | SIM | | FC SIM | | Interconnect SIM| | Translation ** | > -------------- -------------- ------------------- ------------------ > | | | | > | |<----------------| ------------ > | | | | IDE SIM | > -------------- -------------- -------------- ------------ > | Hardware | | Hardware | | Hardware | | > | Adapter(HA)| | Adapter(HA)| | Adapter(HA)| ------------- > -------------- -------------- -------------- |Hardware | > |Adapter(HA)| > -------------- > > (**): The SCSI-to-ATAPI translation would only be for transactions going > from a SCSI peripheral driver to an ATAPI peripheral. Transactions > coming from the IDE/ATA disk driver wouldn't need to be translated. That makes a lot more sense, yes. > I don't think the interface going out of or coming into the > transport layer is SCSI-specific. However, think there are some > assumptions that are SCSI specific, like the device probe stuff. The > transport layer assumes that it is going to get a SCSI inquiry data > structure back. I don't know what you get back from an IDE drive at probe > time. A lot of crap. 8) How much of the inquiry data structure is actually used? I presume it's not actually passed back down to the SIM for reuse, so a dummy could easily be constructed. > Do I want to write the code? Not really. Aside from time > constraints, I pulled the last two IDE drives out of one of my machines a > couple of months ago. So I don't even have the hardware to test it on. I appreciate this; I'd love to have the time and I do have the hardware, and if nothing else I'd like to come out of this with a better appreciation of what's really going on. If I can come up with code on top of that, I'd be even happier. 8) > After reading a little in the CAM spec, it seems like they think > the transport layer should understand both SCSI and ATA. I think the > current FreeBSD CAM transport layer could be made to understand ATA. Sounds respectable. Time to start reading the code in earnest. > So the task is definitely feasible, it'll just take someone with > time and the willingness to learn the pieces of the above puzzle that they > don't already know. :) *chuckle* Time, time time. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 12 23:54:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA23542 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23509 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA18637; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:54:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA17377; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:54:20 +0200 (CEST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, l.rizzo@iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. References: <3471.876678779@time.cdrom.com> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 13 Oct 1997 08:54:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:52:59 -0700 Message-ID: <87k9fi886c.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > Similarly, if you have some experimental bit of code which you'd like > included in the experimental ("xperimnt") distribution, send me a URL > for the tarball and a README (or a URL to the README :) and it's in. I'd like to see the PnP stuff in there. Luigi? tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 00:40:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26911 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26904 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:40:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA01118 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd001115; Mon Oct 13 07:33:52 1997 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:32:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: good name for a (in fact 2) new module(s) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have two new major kernel modules to add soon. Part of all this is to think of good names for them before they hit the light of day.. once they've been released, I can't easily change the names and the CVS files will have been created etc. They are: A networking framework to allow the linking and operation of an arbitrary graph (think of nodes and edges) of processing modules within the kernel. e.g. a ppp framing modules, a frame-relay mux, a frame relay control module, debug modules. etc. At the moment this is called "netgraph" in the same line as netatalk, netinet, netipx, etc. This is scheduled to be made public by whistle on Jan. 1. It kind-of fills the same ecological niche as the sysV STREAMS, but is considerably different. I've discussed this with many including Mike Karels. Many of you will have seen early versions of this. Whistle's mpd (multilink PPP daemon) knows how to use this framework to do fun things with ISDN and frame relay links etc. The second module is a disk layering framework that works in conjunction with DEVFS. All direct-access devices (e.g. disks) are accessed via the framework, with arbitrary stacking allowed. Handlers are used to perform the actions implemented by each layer. Layers may provide such services as disk mirroring, or maybe just something as simple as MBR partitionning. All disk devices have the same major number through this interface and minor number assignation is dynamic through DEVFS. Each layer exports an identical interface to those above it or to the outside world. It would be quite possible (and easy) to further divide a disklabel partition into further partitions by disklabelling that partition. The present name for this module is the SLICE module, but I'm not sure that this is generic enough. I've been thinking of DASD (IBM's name for disk (Direct Access Storage Device) or DAS (similar). I'd have to do some 'bulk find and replace' operations but I'd rather do it now than later. Any thoughts about these names would be gratefully appreciated.. failing violent objections, we might look forward to seeing a /sys/dev/slice or /sys/dev/das (no, not DAAS for those .au members). and soon, /sys/netgraph. Netgraph has been in production here or 6 months and has proven EXTREMELY useful. I hope the SLICE code is as useful. It's also really needed to do DEVFS correctly, which is why you haven't seen any DEVFS work from me recently.. this is part of it.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 01:53:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02814 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA02808 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id KAA08838; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:53:17 +0200 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA07453; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:53:28 +0200 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:53:28 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. In-Reply-To: <3471.876678779@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: [snip] > Testers: Another BETA snapshot, 2.2.5-971012-BETA, will be going up on > ftp.freebsd.org today. Test-installing this one is especially > important as it has a fair number of installation fixes made to it and > I'd like as much testing of them as possible. Folks will probably > most immediately notice that the annoying display bugs in the > Distribution menu have gone away. :-) I've also made the label > and partition editors much more usable from multi-user mode. Did you look at conf/4738, or is it just me who had this problem? If it's really something that'll come up later, it's really annoying. > > Thanks! > > Jordan > Nadav From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 02:22:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA05672 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA05645; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA21700; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:22:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130922.CAA21700@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? To: fullermd@futuresouth.com (Matthew D. Fuller) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:22:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Matthew D. Fuller" at Oct 13, 97 00:44:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Last I heard Net/OPenBSD had support for PowerPC processors; it was a > little shaky, and had some problems with bootup at some points, but it > ran. > I dunno; look at their respective websites, www.{open|net}bsd.org. They don't boot the PPCBug based machine I have access to... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 02:31:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06233 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:31:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06226 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA22060; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:31:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130931.CAA22060@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? To: dcarmich@mcs.com (Douglas Carmichael) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:31:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710130125.UAA00293@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> from "Douglas Carmichael" at Oct 12, 97 08:25:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards > FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a network)? Networks are problematic. They require authentication in the form of a "ticket" or "cookie". Technically, one can always fake a "cookie", and the time limitation is meant to shorten (but not eliminate) the window in which the "cookie" is valid. FreeBSD could easily be made C2 compliant. B1 is a bith, in that it pretty much requires the network authentication go away. If I can't trust a remote machine, I can't trust it to say "yes, this person is who I say he or she is...". Security comes down to no external connections and a marine guard at the door of the Tempest vault, in most cases. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 02:35:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06425 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:35:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06420 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:35:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA22143; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:35:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710130935.CAA22143@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: garbanzo@hooked.net (Alex) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:35:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex" at Oct 12, 97 07:17:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > So people who don't compile their own kernels (ie. the people > > affected by jkh's change) get to choose? :) > > Or with #ifndef one could make it go the other way. I'd prefer the first > myself, as if something's disabled, I don't want to know about it, as I > probably disabled it in the first place. If I disabled it, I removed it from the config file -- or should have. If not, I want to be reminded to do so, in order to recover the RAM used in loading the kernel. If you can coelesce free kernel memory (requires a "section pageable" attribute) and recover it automatically, then I give you the point. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 02:41:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06769 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06764 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01200; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:08:50 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710130938.TAA01200@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: good name for a (in fact 2) new module(s) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:32:38 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:08:46 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A networking framework to allow the linking and operation of an arbitrary > graph (think of nodes and edges) of processing modules within the kernel. "PLGS" (think plugs & sockets, or Pluggable Link Grouping System. Or maybe "tubes" (for the oldies) for Transport Unification Block Extension Scheme. > The second module is a disk layering framework that works in conjunction > with DEVFS. How about "DSTAC" for Direct STorage ACcumulation? Apologies for the synthetic acronyms. 8) > The present name for this module is the SLICE module, but I'm not sure > that this is generic enough. I've been thinking of DASD (IBM's name for > disk (Direct Access Storage Device) or DAS (similar). I'd have to do some > 'bulk find and replace' operations but I'd rather do it now than later. DASD would be OK as long as the legacy attachments weren't seen as a problem; you're reusing an older term for something quite different and will undoubtably confuse some people. > Any thoughts about these names would be gratefully appreciated.. > failing violent objections, we might look forward to seeing a > /sys/dev/slice or /sys/dev/das (no, not DAAS for those .au members). Damn. I was going to suggest that you could call the network module "Gough". (Heh, figure _that_ one out...) mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 02:59:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07839 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:59:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from chain.freebsd.os.org.za (AHQrXgd4nLcHsvpDOgX5WpZxobgXLbPL@chain.iafrica.com [196.7.74.174]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07827 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:59:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from khetan@chain.iafrica.com) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost) by chain.freebsd.os.org.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA03520; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:58:30 +0200 (SAT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:58:30 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar X-Sender: khetan@chain Reply-To: Khetan Gajjar To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with 2.2.2-RELEASE machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: >I have a test in the generic 2.2.x kernel that looks for this. >(alternatively, simply grab kern_synch.c from the web site and >put in the DIAGNOSTIC section of tsleep() to your own kernel tree >and recompile. >(if you leave out the #if DIAGNOSTIC you can just recompile that file) >do you know what make of processor you have? >It may be that this is only on 486DX4 machines. I will be ugrading the machine to 2.2.5 when it's released (prob. in 8 days, according to jkh). I'll wait until then. --- Khetan Gajjar - whois kg1779 | khetan@iafrica.com or khetan@os.org.za http://chain.iafrica.com/~khetan | PGPKey : finger khetan@chain.iafrica.com UUNET Internet Africa Support | FreeBSD enthusiast-www2.za.freebsd.org Unix is user friendly; it's just selective about who it calls a friend! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 03:06:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA08308 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 03:06:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (root@coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA08297 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 03:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) From: itojun@itojun.org Received: from localhost (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.8.5/3.6Wbeta6) with ESMTP id TAA25481; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:06:25 +0900 (JST) To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: julian's message of Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:32:38 MST. X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: good name for a (in fact 2) new module(s) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:06:25 +0900 Message-ID: <25477.876737185@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I have two new major kernel modules to add soon. >Part of all this is to think of good names for them before they >hit the light of day.. once they've been released, I can't easily >change the names and the CVS files will have been created etc. >They are: >A networking framework to allow the linking and operation of an arbitrary >graph (think of nodes and edges) of processing modules within the kernel. >e.g. a ppp framing modules, a frame-relay mux, a frame relay control >module, debug modules. etc. At the moment this is called "netgraph" in the >same line as netatalk, netinet, netipx, etc. This is scheduled to be made >public by whistle on Jan. 1. It kind-of fills the same ecological niche as >the sysV STREAMS, but is considerably different. I've discussed this with >many including Mike Karels. Many of you will have seen early versions of >this. Whistle's mpd (multilink PPP daemon) knows how to use this framework >to do fun things with ISDN and frame relay links etc. A bit off-topic, but I can't resist: will netinet/netatalk be heavily changed by the addition of netgraph, or they are just another (separate) protocol family? itojun From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 03:43:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA10892 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 03:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from monoid.cs.tcd.ie (monoid.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.38.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA10756; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 03:41:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie) Received: from monoid.cs.tcd.ie (localhost.my.domain [127.0.0.1]) by monoid.cs.tcd.ie (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08912; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:41:10 +0100 (IST) Message-Id: <199710131041.LAA08912@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> To: Douglas Carmichael cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? X-Address: Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. X-Phone: +353-(0)1-6081321 In-reply-to: Message from Douglas Carmichael dated Sunday at 20:25. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8907.876739269.1@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> Content-Description: text Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:41:09 +0100 From: Colman Reilly Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [cc'ed to security, where it possibly really belongs. On the other hand raises a few issues relevant to hackers. Sorry if you get it twice.] [Disclaimer: I haven't had any coffee yet. This could all be wrong.] Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a network)? Well, certainly it could achieve C2, though we would need to do a *lot* of documentation and testing work, and we may need to include an ACL list based filesystem, that depends on your reading of the Orange Book. I'm not experienced enough to tell what the "normal" interpretation of the requirement that access should be controllable down to the granularity of a single user is. In principle one can deny access to an object by creating a group with everyone except that user in it and set that to be the object's group but I'm not sure a certification group would consider that adequate. Code to handle the C2 auditing requirements is being worked on by someone whose name I don't have handy on this machine, (sorry). The main problem after that is adding the appropriate code to all the syscalls and the relevant programs. I think it's mostly admin and verification work after that. As for B1: well, that is an interesting problem. Could we hack FreeBSD to include labels? Yes. Can we do it without breaking existing software? I don't know. The problem is that B1 is the first level at which Mandatory Access Control is introduced, which requires that you associate with each object (process, file, whatever) attributes, to include a sensitivity label (top secret, confidential, etc.) and what is essentially a project label. Essentially, information is only allowed to move from an object with a lower or equal sensitivity to one of a higher or equal sensitivity label and not vice versa. (Not exactly correct, but good enough for this discussion.) Now, if we introduce such things we get a somewhat different view of the world than the traditional UNIX-like security model. I do not know if it possible to maintain a good enough match to enable us to continue to easily port UNIX based software to FreeBSD. There are also some formal engineering requirements to be statisfied if I remember rightly. (I don't have the Orange Book to hand, just the equivalent European ITSEC document, which seperates assurance and security claims.) I know there are several UNIX-like B-Class OSes out there, but I'm not sure whether they break the standard UNIX security semantics. Our more experienced brethren would have a better idea and will no doubt express their views in their normal reserved manner. What's my interest? Well, some of you may remember me asking about a security model for FreeBSD a while back. I'm currently working on a mathematical model of the security aspects of the current system, which I'm intending to match against both the implementation of the system and the C2 requirements in order to identify mismatches in either direction. (This, some testing and some documentation would probably take us to something daft like (F-C2,E4), which is equivalent to C2 with rather stronger assurance.) After (if) I get that work done, I'd be intending to look at how extending that model to a B-Class system would affect the semantics of the system and how badly (or if) it would break the existing software. I don't think it has to break any software unless it trys to directly handle security things like password authentication. Now, this is a fairly ambitious project, and I'd be suprised to get past the C2 aspect of it in time for my PhD, but we'll see what happens. >From a practical point of view I wonder how pleased developers would be to have heavy security review requirements hanging over them? I suspect not very. And the requirements for both C2 and B-Class would probably impact performance. If one wanted to produce either a C2 or B-Class system I think it would probably need to be done as a sort of sub-project using a restricted driver set and a restricted ports set and with a different distribution produced which would lag a bit behind the released system. On the other hand any sort of work towards that level of security would greatly increase both the security of the base system and our confidence in it. On the other hand, wouldn't a free A1-class operating system just be so funny? "Mr Gates, please explain why your operating system can't make C2 yet that pack of wasters manage to maintain a free system at A1 certification" The problem with that is the money that the certifaction process would require, of course. Colman From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 03:52:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11710 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 03:52:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coal.nis.newscorp.com (mxa.newscorp.com [206.15.105.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11529 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 03:50:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@multivac.narcissus.net) Received: from multivac.narcissus.net (ts1port1.port.net [207.38.248.1]) by coal.nis.newscorp.com (News Corp SMTP GW 1.1) with SMTP id GAA06003 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by multivac.narcissus.net (NX5.67e/NX3.0S) id AA03171; Mon, 13 Oct 97 06:44:54 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:44:54 -0400 (GMT-0400) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: benedict@echonyc.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: dwhite stumped Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I, too, have been seeing this. Does anyone know? Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:18:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: "K. Marsh" Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: spwd.db error messages On Sat, 4 Oct 1997, K. Marsh wrote: > I've been getting an error message ever since I installed FreeBSD, and I > still haven't figured out where it's coming from. I must admit, it seems > obvious. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > Here's the message: > Oct 4 13:05:08 ken2 syslog: /etc/spwd.db: Invalid argument If you figure it out, tell me. My 2.2.1 box booted it out last month. I don't think it's related to syslog. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 04:21:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA14350 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from www.giovannelli.it (www.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA14337 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:20:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from giovannelli.it (ts2port4d.masternet.it [194.184.65.215]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00475 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:23:49 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <344220B7.85CBDA7A@giovannelli.it> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:23:03 +0000 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Reply-To: gmarco@giovannelli.it X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: vpo0 and 3.0-current Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Reading the LINT kernel, I have found the vpo0 device, for the Iomega Zip (par). I have tried to put the following lines in my laptop kernel file to use the parallel zip I own (I own 2 scsi too , but the laptop has no scsi port :-). controller ppbus0 controller scbus0 # Required ??? controller ppc0 at isa? port ? irq 7 vector ppcintr controller vpo0 at ppbus? # Zip Parallelo device nlpt0 at ppbus? # Stampante I disable lpt0 and the nlpt0 seems to be recognized, but the zip doens't. It is not probed at all ... Perhaps I miss to add something ? I am running 3.0-current cvsupped daily Thanks for your attention.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 04:32:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA15443 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA15434 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:32:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by bagpuss.visint.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19286; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:31:01 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:30:43 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Roome To: Luigi Rizzo cc: Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for digital recording w/PCI multitrack in/out cards? In-Reply-To: <199710090503.GAA12182@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > What multitrack recording software exists for FreeBSD? > > it's a user-space thing, once we have solved the device problem as > depicted above, any software available on the net for unix machines > will do. i know of none at the moment but I think I have seen something > on the net. check the oss page or some linux doc on audio. I was going to comment on this earlier in response to the question of why there is no good audio software for FreeBSD (which was bought up in the recent Wintel outsels UNIX discussion). Currently I'm working on a project (albeit at home) to do digital sound effects with FreeBSD, and later multitracking. I've got some little X apps I've written to give oscilloscope like readings of the sound inputs etc., (two channel only), but it's hell trying to write this stuff, and that's the problem.. There's no documentation! I've got the voxware faq, which seems to document voxware 0.001, (or is there a newer FAQ? I couldn't find it), I'm using GUSPNP15 with my AWE64 and, well there's comments in the source. (although people who want to mention that I should "UTSL" might be missing something!) Anyway this all gives me the impression that until there's some stability or just some available documentation (for a standard sound API) then it's going to be really tricky to be writing any decent multitracker type software. N.B. This isn't a dig at the multimedia folks, because in the last year they seem to have really got stuff moving nicely. I'm just saying that it's not easy developing audio stuff at the moment - which might be why I've taken up XLib instead. (Now that says it all!) Steve. -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 04:37:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA15893 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from monoid.cs.tcd.ie (monoid.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.38.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA15873 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie) Received: from monoid.cs.tcd.ie (localhost.my.domain [127.0.0.1]) by monoid.cs.tcd.ie (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09217; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:36:42 +0100 (IST) Message-Id: <199710131136.MAA09217@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? X-Address: Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. X-Phone: +353-(0)1-6081321 In-reply-to: Message from Terry Lambert dated today at 09:31. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9211.876742600.1@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> Content-Description: text Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:36:41 +0100 From: Colman Reilly Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD could easily be made C2 compliant. B1 is a bith, in that it pretty much requires the network authentication go away. If I can't trust a remote machine, I can't trust it to say "yes, this person is who I say he or she is...". One of the reasons I prefere the ITSEC model is that it allows you write down your own security claims depending on what you want to be able to say. Far more flexible than Orange Book. In any case, there's nothing in B1 to prevent you trusting an external machine, so long as it come in over a secure enough channel. Consider the external machine as part of the system. (Is there? Not on my reading of the standard anyway.) Security comes down to no external connections and a marine guard at the door of the Tempest vault, in most cases. 8-). With a small nuclear device attached to your hardware in case the guards are overcome. Colman From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 05:42:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20015 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA20007 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:42:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA23898; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:41:49 -0400 Received: by section05 (SMI-8.6/SECTION05-Client) id IAA18690; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:41:48 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:41:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@morse To: Glenn Johnson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Floating point exceptions In-Reply-To: <199710101907.OAA09470@millenia.srrc.usda.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk check out fpsetmask. I had this problem too. In point of fact freebsd does the right thing here, since for any given program the choice of FPE handling is different. But also make sure you're running with the right math libraries! ron Ron Minnich |Java: an operating-system-independent, rminnich@sarnoff.com |architecture-independent programming language (609)-734-3120 |for Windows/95 and Windows/NT on the Pentium ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 05:45:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20152 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA20147 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:45:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA23938; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:44:59 -0400 Received: by section05 (SMI-8.6/SECTION05-Client) id IAA18701; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:44:59 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:44:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@morse To: Terry Lambert cc: Glenn Johnson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Floating point exceptions In-Reply-To: <199710102149.OAA15093@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > Worst fix: signal( SIGFPE, SIG_IGN); again, it does depend on the app. There are some well-understood (by the programmer) cases where it just doesn't matter. ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 05:49:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20452 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:49:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA20433; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:48:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA23973; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:48:22 -0400 Received: by section05 (SMI-8.6/SECTION05-Client) id IAA18733; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:48:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:48:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@morse To: Douglas Carmichael cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? In-Reply-To: <199710102301.SAA00400@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > Could it be done by: > 1) Porting the "Lites" single server (http://www.cs.hut.fi/lites.html) to PowerPC > 2) Running it under Mach (which is already used by MkLinux) So run it slow under emulation when native-mode linux is available? what's the point? If it won't run as the kernel I can't see any reason to do this. > What would be a good name for this project? > MkFreeBSD, FreeBSD/PPC, FreeBSD/MK? Hmmm, we have netbsd/ppc, linux/ppc, and I assume openbsd/ppp. What does freebsd add? esp. when the last power-pc-based computers have been designed? ( the next generation of ppc will be in your car's engine, not on your desk. Thank You Know Who for that one). You're not losing much by optimizing for the pentium. At the rate we're going, it's the only architecture out there (anyone see that the Alpha is probably dead?) ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 06:01:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA21265 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21259 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA21198; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23939; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id JAA01460; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:07:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710131307.JAA01460@lakes.dignus.com> To: dcarmich@mcs.com, Shimon@i-Connect.Net Subject: RE: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Simon Shapiro writes:> > > Hi Douglas Carmichael; On 13-Oct-97 you wrote: > > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards > > FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a > > network)? > > Last I checked (looooong time ago), Unix had the same problem. TCP/IP was, > at the time, inhenerntly un-Orangable. > Hmmm.. Data General has a variant of DG/UX which is at least B1 (if not C2...) Does anyone know the details there? Perhaps I can dig up some old contacts and find out what they did with this issue. - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 06:43:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23903 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA23894 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:43:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xKkm2-0007g9-00; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:43:06 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.7/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA07966; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710131342.HAA07966@harmony.village.org> To: Thomas David Rivers Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? Cc: dcarmich@mcs.com, Shimon@i-Connect.Net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:07:20 EDT." <199710131307.JAA01460@lakes.dignus.com> References: <199710131307.JAA01460@lakes.dignus.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:42:51 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199710131307.JAA01460@lakes.dignus.com> Thomas David Rivers writes: : Hmmm.. Data General has a variant of DG/UX which is at least B1 (if not : C2...) Does anyone know the details there? Perhaps I can dig up some : old contacts and find out what they did with this issue. There were folks selling B1/B2 level SYSV based systems a few years ago. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 06:44:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA24099 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:44:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gate.mgt.msk.ru (mgtrep.24h.dialup.ru [194.87.18.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA24047; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:44:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tarkhil@mgt.msk.ru) Received: from asteroid.mgt.msk.ru (asteroid.mgt.msk.ru [192.168.133.145]) by gate.mgt.msk.ru (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA00801; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:42:34 +0400 (MSD) Received: from asteroid.mgt.msk.ru (localhost.mgt.msk.ru [127.0.0.1]) by asteroid.mgt.msk.ru (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA01226; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:43:22 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199710131343.RAA01226@asteroid.mgt.msk.ru> To: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: tarkhil@mgt.msk.ru Subject: Repeated panic during work with vn Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:43:22 +0400 From: "Alexander B. Povolotsky" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I am trying to make release, and I've got 100% repeateble panic during doFS.sh execution. Always with ufs_lock: recursive lock not expected. It happens right after df command issued from /usr/src/release/doFS.sh. I've tried to rebuild kernel and do make world, nothing happened. Any ideas? Alex. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 06:51:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA24557 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:51:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA24552 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:51:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.21]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26411; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:51:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA25886; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:51:16 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:51:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: Terry Lambert , Tim Vanderhoek , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > > On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > So what do folks think, can I kill it? [he said already knowing that > > > > at least one dissenting vote will come from bde, great champion of > > > > chatty kernels that he is. ;-)] > [...] > > > > How will I know I have unused drivers if I don't get this message? > > You will make a mental note to do so when you disable them. > > After all probes, a line should say "There were disabled drivers". Tommy From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 08:51:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02008 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sparks.net (exim@gw.sparks.net [204.248.143.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA01983 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@sparks.net) Received: from david by sparks.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #5) id 0xKmmZ-0005BT-00; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:51:47 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:51:47 -0400 (EDT) From: To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 21140 version E Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello hackers:) Forgive me if this is an old question, long since fixed. I just got a bunch of new znyx muliport fast ethernet cards based on DEC's 21140A chip. I have an older rev C board which works fine. But the newer rev E's don't:( The Rev E boards appear fine in the boot process, but come up with: de0: transmission timeout once the board has been ifconfig'd. FWIW, bsdi has the same sort of problem, finding it in the boot but complaining about phy0 and that it can't be accessed. Exact messages available if anyone needs it. So my question is whether anyone is working on the driver to work with current revs of this chip or I need to abandon the de chip altogether. Thanks in advance:) --- David Miller ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's *amazing* what one can accomplish when one doesn't know what one can't do! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 09:28:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04328 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:28:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from consys.com (consys.com [209.60.202.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04310 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:27:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcarter@consys.com) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (dnstoo.ConSys.COM [209.60.202.195]) by consys.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA24501; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:27:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dnstoo.consys.com (8.8.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA03837; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:27:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710131627.JAA03837@dnstoo.consys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mike Smith cc: "Russell L. Carter" , gjohnson@nola.srrc.usda.gov, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Floating point exceptions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:01:47 +0930." <199710110731.RAA00733@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:27:54 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk }> |> FreeBSD (so I can replace Linux). My understanding is that FreeBSD traps }> |> FPE's. Is there a way for me to change the FreeBSD source code to mask FPE's }> |> rather than trap them? Better yet, can I do that for a specific application at }> |> compile time? Your assistance is greatly appreciated. }> | }> |Fix: Correct the code to not generate exceptions }> }> Hmm, I don't think so. There are a variety of reasons that NA people }> want to use those carefully thought out exceptions. Find }> 'em yerself. } }In the original case the NA people weren't using the exceptions; they }were ignoring them. } }IMHO FreeBSD does the correct thing; it notifies you of the exception. }It is your responsibility to decide what to do about it. I agree, as long as it is understood that some codes are correctly written to generate exceptions that are best masked. fpsetmask() appears to fit the bill. } }I have spent not a little time carefully explaining to various }scientific programmers about arithmetic exceptions and why they should }care about them, and so far have had a 100% conversion rate. If you }look a physicist in the eye and say "unquantifiable error", they will }usually listen. What do physicists know about NA? :-) :-) :-) Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 09:30:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04513 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@1Cust189.tnt1.manassas.va.da.uu.net [153.37.113.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04502 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) id MAA03241; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19971013122947.33887@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:29:47 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: benedict@echonyc.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dwhite stumped Reply-To: hcremean@vt.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Mon, Oct 13, 1997 at 06:44:54AM -0400 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Oct 13, 1997 at 06:44:54AM -0400, Snob Art Genre wrote: > I, too, have been seeing this. Does anyone know? > > > Ben > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > > > > > Here's the message: > > Oct 4 13:05:08 ken2 syslog: /etc/spwd.db: Invalid argument I got this a while back, and it turns out my spwd.db was corrupted. I used pwd_mkdb to rebuild it, and it went away. Try that and see what happens.. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac Ee34/1/36 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 09:42:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05274 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:42:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05264 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA00352; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 02:09:21 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710131639.CAA00352@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: gmarco@giovannelli.it cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vpo0 and 3.0-current In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:23:03 GMT." <344220B7.85CBDA7A@giovannelli.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 02:09:20 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Reading the LINT kernel, I have found the vpo0 device, for the Iomega > Zip (par). > > I have tried to put the following lines in my laptop kernel file to use > the parallel zip I own (I own 2 scsi too , but the laptop has no scsi > port :-). > > controller ppbus0 > controller scbus0 # Required ??? > controller ppc0 at isa? port ? irq 7 vector ppcintr > controller vpo0 at ppbus? # Zip Parallelo > device nlpt0 at ppbus? # Stampante > > I disable lpt0 and the nlpt0 seems to be recognized, but the zip > doens't. It is not probed at all ... > > Perhaps I miss to add something ? Yes; the Zip is a SCSI disk, so you need: device sd0 as well as the scbus0 controller. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 09:47:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05526 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:47:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05520 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA18896 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00199 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id LAA01999 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:23:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710131523.LAA01999@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: two natd's running? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a rather old question I'm just now getting around to... What I have is a situation where I'd like to two SL/IP connections going with multiple natd's running. Several people had suggested simply having two divert rules in rc.firewall and running the two natd's that way. Here's what I've got the gateway (a 2.2-970510-RELENG machine) at 10.0.0.1: ipfw -f flush ipfw -f add 10 divert 32001 ip from any to 192.42.243.0/24 via sl1 ipfw -f add 20 divert 32000 ip from any to any via sl0 ipfw -f add pass ip from any to any # ifconfig sl1 sl1: flags=9011 mtu 552 inet 192.42.243.10 --> 192.42.243.1 netmask 0xffffff00 # ifconfig sl0 sl0: flags=9010 mtu 552 inet 166.82.177.48 --> 166.82.100.202 netmask 0xffffff00 # And - from /etc/rc.local: if [ -f /usr/local/bin/natd ]; then echo -n " natd"; /usr/local/bin/natd -l -port 32000 -interface sl0 -m -u -dynamic echo -n " natd"; /usr/local/bin/natd -l -port 32001 -interface sl1 -m -u -dynamic fi And - my routing table (from netstat -rn): # netstat -rn Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 166.82.100.202 UGSc 1 0 sl0 10/24 link#1 UC 0 0 10.0.0.3 0:40:33:22:a2:6b UHLW 5 947 ed0 434 10.23.1.112 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 10.23.1.115 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 10.26.1.153 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 10.26.1.157 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 10.26.149.40 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 10.252.1.2 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 10.253.1.2 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 16.1.0.2 166.82.100.202 UGHS 0 0 sl0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 0 0 lo0 130.96.1.21 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 149.173.52.101 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 149.173.52.209 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 149.173.160.12 192.42.243.1 UGHS 1 129 sl1 149.173.166.232 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 166.82.100.202 166.82.177.48 UH 5 0 sl0 172.16.0.200 192.42.243.1 UGHS 0 0 sl1 192.42.243.1 192.42.243.10 UH 13 8 sl1 192.216.191.11 166.82.100.202 UGHS 0 0 sl0 192.216.222.4 166.82.100.202 UGHS 0 0 sl0 Now - when I try to get to 148.173.160.12 on the gateway machine, everything works... But - when I'm on an interior-to-my-network (a 10.0.0.0-based interior network) - I can't reach 148.173.160.12 (or anything exterior for that matter...) This is also version 1.5 of natd (a rather older version now...) I've obviously got something wrong with my firewall setup - I'm betting it's something obvious to those who do this a lot... :-) - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 09:57:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06269 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:57:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA06264 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:57:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA25824; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:56:48 -0400 Received: by section05 (SMI-8.6/SECTION05-Client) id MAA21349; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:56:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:56:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@morse To: david@sparks.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 21140 version E In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk we've had a terrible time with the different 2x040 boards lately. seems that nobody follows DECs rules on how to design with this chip. The latest linux drivers from cesdis work with all the different types we have, however. You could learn from them and get the knowledge into the freebsd driver. The differences all seem to revolve around initialization issues. ron Ron Minnich |Java: an operating-system-independent, rminnich@sarnoff.com |architecture-independent programming language (609)-734-3120 |for Windows/95 and Windows/NT on the Pentium ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:01:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06652 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:01:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA06615; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id KAA03103; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:01:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199710131701.KAA03103@grayling.erg.sri.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: templin@erg.sri.com, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:46:44 +0900." <199710102346.IAA07501@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:01:12 -0700 From: "Fred L. Templin" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Original: > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > static struct slot_ctrl cinfo; > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Newer code: > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > static struct slot_ctrl controller_info[NPCIC]; > static struct slot_ctrl *cinfo = controller_info; > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > One of my laptop machine has one PCI-1130 CardBus bridge that manages > two CardBus slots and i82365-compatible PC card controller that > manages one PC-card slot, and I can use all three slots under this > test code. Great. I was hoping it was just a matter of allocating multiple data structures. Does this mean that my config file will now look like: controller crd0 device pcic0 at crd0 device pcic1 at crd0 controller crd1 device pcic2 at crd1 device pcic3 at crd1 . . . (No need to respond if the answer is clearly obvious in the latest PAO test code...) > -- > HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi > Network Technology Center > Keio University > hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp Thanks, Fred templin@erg.sri.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:02:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06853 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:02:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rh173-26.reshall.ucsd.edu (rh173-26.reshall.ucsd.edu [128.54.173.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06845 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taco@mad.scientist.com) Received: from jaguar.atcg.com (localhost.ucsd.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by rh173-26.reshall.ucsd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA28730; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <344253EF.345BF651@mad.scientist.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:01:35 -0700 From: "Todd 'Taco' Hansen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: benedict@echonyc.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dwhite stumped References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I get that error when I accidentally start two copies of netscape as the same user. Other times too but all were netscape related. You could alwyas remake the pwd db mkpwd? I think it helped once. -taco Snob Art Genre wrote: > > I, too, have been seeing this. Does anyone know? > > Ben > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:18:15 -0700 (PDT) > From: Doug White > Reply-To: Doug White > To: "K. Marsh" > Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: spwd.db error messages > > On Sat, 4 Oct 1997, K. Marsh wrote: > > > I've been getting an error message ever since I installed FreeBSD, and I > > still haven't figured out where it's coming from. I must admit, it seems > > obvious. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > > > Here's the message: > > Oct 4 13:05:08 ken2 syslog: /etc/spwd.db: Invalid argument > > If you figure it out, tell me. My 2.2.1 box booted it out last month. > > I don't think it's related to syslog. > > Doug White | University of Oregon > Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant > http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major -- Todd Hansen, KD6YPS (Taco) taco@mad.scientist.com http://millenium.atcg.com/ "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive...it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it" - Declaration Of Independence From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:05:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07188 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:05:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07157; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:05:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00296; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710131704.KAA00296@rah.star-gate.com> To: Colman Reilly cc: Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:41:09 BST." <199710131041.LAA08912@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:04:25 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Colman Reilly : > The problem with that is the money that the certifaction process would > require, of course. So ask the goverment to pay for it or hand out the OS to a goverment agency to certify it for you. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:36:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09322 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09314 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:36:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA16825; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:34:47 -0700 (PDT) To: david@sparks.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 21140 version E In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:51:47 EDT." Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:34:47 -0700 Message-ID: <16821.876764087@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just got a bunch of new znyx muliport fast ethernet cards based on DEC's > 21140A chip. I have an older rev C board which works fine. But the newer > rev E's don't:( The Rev E boards appear fine in the boot process, but > come up with: Have you tried this with 2.2-stable or 3.0-current? I believe they should work now, but you'll need to upgrade if you're not running with the de driver from either of those two branches. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:40:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09587 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA09580 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:40:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id KAA03124; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:39:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199710131739.KAA03124@grayling.erg.sri.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: Mike Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, templin@erg.sri.com Subject: Re: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:00:01 +0930." <199710110930.TAA01051@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:39:49 -0700 From: "Fred L. Templin" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure I understand why you want to manipulate the per-slot > mappings. The card offers a window of some fixed size, which you can > relocate over its internal address space, correct? If this is the > case, then you only map this window once, and subsequently fiddle the > cards internals to shift the window around. The problem is that the card really doesn't have any internals to shift around. It presents itself as a contiguous chunk of approx. 96KB of common memory and expects the host to write data and commands into the correct locations. Is there any other way to handle this besides re- mapping the 4KB window that gets set up when the card is inserted? > > running" which makes me nervous about following their model. So my first > > question is - how can I write a driver for a memory-mapped PCMCIA card > > which can disassociate itself from the slot controller driver when the > > device is probed, yet still allow me to manipulate the per-slot window > > mappings? > > Again I'm not sure I understand why you want this dissociation. You > are concerned with what will happen if the card is ripped out from > under you, which is fair enough. You can expect something like the > following sequence: > > - talking to card, all is OK. > - card is removed. > - talking to card, not responding. > - driver removal hook is called. > > Effectively, you will need to code your driver defensively; you should > be prepared to handle completely bogus responses from the card on the > basis that shortly after the bogus response you will receive removal > notification. > > You can test this behaviour very easily once you have the skeleton of > your driver running; poll an address on a fast timeout, rip the card > and see how many polls (if any) you get with a bogus value before your > removal hook is called. None of the above concerns me; this is the standard operating environment for a PC-CARD driver, and I understand the perils involved here. > Note that it's possible (not having checked the code) that the memory > mapped for the card is revoked before the removal hook is called (it > shouldn't be, but it might). If that's the case, polling as above may > cause a kernel fault, and the unmapping will have to be fixed. This is what concerns me; de-referencing bogus pointers while manipulating the per-slot window mappings in my driver after the slot driver disappears and takes it's data structures with it. This concern goes away if there is some other way for me to program my card besides fiddling with the window mapping, or if some mutual exclusion can be provided between the slot driver and my driver while dealing with the per-slot data structures. Any ideas on either approach would be welcome... > > statically-allocated "slot_ctrl" struct). Is it true that FreeBSD > > currently only supports one slot controller chip (which controls two > > slots), or am I missing something? (I'm hoping the folks working on > > -current might have some knowledge on this...) > > FreeBSD currently only supports one controller; docking bays with extra > PCICs are a relatively new innovation, and the PCCARD code is a little > older than that. Mr. Hosokawa also posted a response to this in which he claims to have added support for multiple controllers in the latest test version of PAO. This is good news, and I intend to go check his new code out soon. > mike Thanks, Fred templin@erg.sri.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:40:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09654 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:40:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09649 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:40:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12872; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd012870; Mon Oct 13 17:32:24 1997 Message-ID: <34425ADB.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:31:07 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: itojun@itojun.org CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: good name for a (in fact 2) new module(s) References: <25477.876737185@coconut.itojun.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk itojun@itojun.org wrote: > > A bit off-topic, but I can't resist: > will netinet/netatalk be heavily changed by the addition of > netgraph, or they are just another (separate) protocol family? > they are untouched > itojun From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:41:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09702 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:41:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09692 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12911; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd012909; Mon Oct 13 17:33:50 1997 Message-ID: <34425B31.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:32:34 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: good name for a (in fact 2) new module(s) References: <199710130938.TAA01200@word.smith.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Smith wrote: > >seeing a > > /sys/dev/slice or /sys/dev/das (no, not DAAS for those .au members). > > Damn. I was going to suggest that you could call the network module > "Gough". (Heh, figure _that_ one out...) geeze I give up.. "All tings to all men? idealistic but impractical? > > mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:46:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10013 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09992; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:46:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA23338; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:46:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: Colman Reilly cc: Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710131041.LAA08912@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards FOR > REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a network)? > > Well, certainly it could achieve C2, though we would need to do a *lot* of > documentation and testing work, and we may need to include an ACL list based > filesystem, that depends on your reading of the Orange Book. I'm not > experienced enough to tell what the "normal" interpretation of the > requirement that access should be controllable down to the granularity of a > single user is. In principle one can deny access to an object by creating a > group with everyone except that user in it and set that to be the object's group > but I'm not sure a certification group would consider that adequate. I'm fairly certain acl is _not_ a requirement in the dcl segment of c2. acl is, after all, just another form of group control at its very base. > > Code to handle the C2 auditing requirements is being worked on by someone > whose name I don't have handy on this machine, (sorry). The main problem > after that is adding the appropriate code to all the syscalls and the > relevant programs. Yes, that would be me. And yes, adding the apropriate code to the syscalls is the main problem. > > I think it's mostly admin and verification work after that. > > As for B1: well, that is an interesting problem. Could we hack FreeBSD to > include labels? Yes. Can we do it without breaking existing software? I > don't know. > > The problem is that B1 is the first level at which Mandatory Access Control > is introduced, which requires that you associate with each object (process, > file, whatever) attributes, to include a sensitivity label (top secret, > confidential, etc.) and what is essentially a project label. Essentially, > information is only allowed to move from an object with a lower or equal > sensitivity to one of a higher or equal sensitivity label and not vice > versa. (Not exactly correct, but good enough for this discussion.) > Yup, this is one of the biggest problems. You cant write to an object unless it has a security level that is precisely the same. You can only read unless it is the same or lower. Most people don't come close to needing B level security; and it is arguable if it is useful for commercial systems at all. For those who want to learn more, the final evaluation reports for several trusted unixes are available online. Trusted Xenix being one of the more interesting ones (b2) - TIRIX is also online (b1) and NT (c2). > Now, if we introduce such things we get a somewhat different view of the > world than the traditional UNIX-like security model. I do not know if it > possible to maintain a good enough match to enable us to continue to easily > port UNIX based software to FreeBSD. > Most unix admins dont easily give up the whole idea of the superuser, which would probably be required for B level. > There are also some formal engineering requirements to be statisfied if I > remember rightly. (I don't have the Orange Book to hand, just the equivalent > European ITSEC document, which seperates assurance and security claims.) > > I know there are several UNIX-like B-Class OSes out there, but I'm not sure > whether they break the standard UNIX security semantics. Our more > experienced brethren would have a better idea and will no doubt express > their views in their normal reserved manner. They do, they do. Their level determines how much they break, but even b1 systems dont generally have superusers. Trusted Xenix is just ... bizarre. Sorry, that;s the best description I can come up of it, based on the final eval report. > After (if) I get that work done, I'd be intending to look at how extending > that model to a B-Class system would affect the semantics of the system and > how badly (or if) it would break the existing software. I don't think it > has to break any software unless it trys to directly handle security things > like password authentication. > > Now, this is a fairly ambitious project, and I'd be suprised to get past the > C2 aspect of it in time for my PhD, but we'll see what happens. > > The problem with that is the money that the certifaction process would > require, of course. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:51:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10325 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:51:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10320 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA23352; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:51:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: Thomas David Rivers cc: dcarmich@mcs.com, Shimon@i-Connect.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710131307.JAA01460@lakes.dignus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > Simon Shapiro writes:> > > > > Hi Douglas Carmichael; On 13-Oct-97 you wrote: > > > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards > > > FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a > > > network)? > > > > Last I checked (looooong time ago), Unix had the same problem. TCP/IP was, > > at the time, inhenerntly un-Orangable. > > > > Hmmm.. Data General has a variant of DG/UX which is at least B1 (if not > C2...) Does anyone know the details there? Perhaps I can dig up some > old contacts and find out what they did with this issue. > > - Dave Rivers - > > Do they? Last I checked, it had not been out of evaluation yet. Has this changed? It wasnt on the NSA page as of a few weeks ago. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 10:54:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10512 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10506 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:54:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA23368; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:53:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: Warner Losh cc: Thomas David Rivers , dcarmich@mcs.com, Shimon@i-Connect.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710131342.HAA07966@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <199710131307.JAA01460@lakes.dignus.com> Thomas David Rivers writes: > : Hmmm.. Data General has a variant of DG/UX which is at least B1 (if not > : C2...) Does anyone know the details there? Perhaps I can dig up some > : old contacts and find out what they did with this issue. > > There were folks selling B1/B2 level SYSV based systems a few years > ago. B2? Who? As for B1, there are plenty of choices. I know argus sold a B1 solaris for a long time, and still does - I believe. There is trusted solaris, trusted irix, trusted xenix, trusted vms, a trusted digital unix, etc I believe trusted computer solutions has a unrated CMW machine too. Wang sells a unix-ish b3 rated product. Plenty of choices :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 11:20:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12173 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:20:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12104 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:19:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (pm3-p18.tfs.net [206.154.183.210]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12908; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:19:34 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA01596; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:19:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710131819.NAA01596@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710131136.MAA09217@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> from Colman Reilly at "Oct 13, 97 12:36:41 pm" To: careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie (Colman Reilly) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:19:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > In any case, there's nothing in B1 to prevent you trusting an external > machine, so long as it come in over a secure enough channel. Consider the > external machine as part of the system. (Is there? Not on my reading of > the standard anyway.) as i recall, doesn't b1 limit external bandwidths? or is that b2? > Security comes down to no external connections and a marine guard at > the door of the Tempest vault, in most cases. 8-). > With a small nuclear device attached to your hardware in case the guards are > overcome. actually, thermite is sufficient... simply melt the hardware... no need for a large explosion... as i recall, most tactical computers have an internal thermite charge. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 11:47:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14423 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr09.primenet.com (tlambert@usr09.primenet.com [206.165.6.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14402; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:47:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA16555; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:46:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710131846.LAA16555@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:46:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dcarmich@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Oct 13, 97 08:48:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmmm, we have netbsd/ppc, linux/ppc, and I assume openbsd/ppp. What > does freebsd add? A unified VM with page coloring. Working install tools. Productization that the other camps ignore for lack of man-power. > esp. when the last power-pc-based computers have been designed? Your opinion. I don't think IBM can dump it's server line that quickly, and Motorola is still building PowerStack systems, FirePower is still building their boxes, etc.. > ( the next generation of ppc will be in your car's engine, not on > your desk. Thank You Know Who for that one). Thanks, Ford! > You're not losing much by optimizing for the pentium. At the rate > we're going, it's the only architecture out there (anyone see that > the Alpha is probably dead?) Do you think we would be working on such a vainglorious thing as a free UNIX clone if we were happy with "at the rate we're going"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 12:00:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15442 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:00:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from oz.plymouth.edu (oz.plymouth.edu [158.136.1.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15434 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from greg@oz.plymouth.edu) Received: by oz.plymouth.edu; id AA10798; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:59:55 -0400 From: "Greg...-*smile*-" Message-Id: <9710131859.AA10798@oz.plymouth.edu> Subject: xwindows compiler To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:59:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hello all! i am new to this mailing list and...i was hoping some one could help me ..i am looking for some type of xwindows compiler.....one that i can compiler c/c++ code on..any help would be a great help! thanks Greg greg@oz.plymouth.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 12:05:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15759 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:05:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from consys.com (consys.com [209.60.202.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15743 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:05:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcarter@consys.com) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (dnstoo.ConSys.COM [209.60.202.195]) by consys.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA25127; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:04:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dnstoo.consys.com (8.8.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA06583; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:04:59 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710131904.MAA06583@dnstoo.consys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: david@sparks.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 21140 version E In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:34:47 MST." <16821.876764087@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:04:59 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk }> I just got a bunch of new znyx muliport fast ethernet cards based on DEC's }> 21140A chip. I have an older rev C board which works fine. But the newer }> rev E's don't:( The Rev E boards appear fine in the boot process, but }> come up with: } }Have you tried this with 2.2-stable or 3.0-current? I believe they }should work now, but you'll need to upgrade if you're not running with }the de driver from either of those two branches. } } Jordan I have a Trendware 21143 based card that wasn't recognized by a 2.2-stable kernel supped last Thursday. (I assume a 21143 is something similar?) This is getting crazy, why so many varieties? It doesn't help that the model number of the NIC never changes, just the 2114x chip. Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 12:09:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15959 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:09:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15948 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:09:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA23755; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:08:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: Thomas David Rivers cc: dcarmich@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Shimon@i-Connect.Net Subject: RE: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710131903.PAA02525@lakes.dignus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Do they? > > > > Last I checked, it had not been out of evaluation yet. Has this changed? > > It wasnt on the NSA page as of a few weeks ago. > > > > Wow! I know they started working on it around 1989/1990 - if it hasn't > gotten out of validation yet, that says a lot... > > - Dave Rivers - > Maybe the page has not been updated, but it is not on the web page. http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/index.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 12:11:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16079 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16069 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:11:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (node22.tfs.net [207.2.220.22]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20983; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:11:16 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA01678; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:11:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710131911.OAA01678@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: from Brian Mitchell at "Oct 13, 97 01:53:31 pm" To: brian@firehouse.net (Brian Mitchell) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:11:24 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > > > In message <199710131307.JAA01460@lakes.dignus.com> Thomas David Rivers writes: > > : Hmmm.. Data General has a variant of DG/UX which is at least B1 (if not > > : C2...) Does anyone know the details there? Perhaps I can dig up some > > : old contacts and find out what they did with this issue. > > > > There were folks selling B1/B2 level SYSV based systems a few years > > ago. > > B2? Who? As for B1, there are plenty of choices. I know argus sold a B1 > solaris for a long time, and still does - I believe. There is trusted > solaris, trusted irix, trusted xenix, trusted vms, a trusted digital unix, > etc > > I believe trusted computer solutions has a unrated CMW machine too. Wang > sells a unix-ish b3 rated product. Plenty of choices :) commercial b3??? i didn't even know about a commercial b3... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 12:12:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16195 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:12:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16189 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA05076; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01223; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id PAA02525; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:03:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710131903.PAA02525@lakes.dignus.com> To: brian@firehouse.net, rivers@dignus.com Subject: RE: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? Cc: dcarmich@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Shimon@i-Connect.Net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > > > Simon Shapiro writes:> > > > > > > Hi Douglas Carmichael; On 13-Oct-97 you wrote: > > > > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards > > > > FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a > > > > network)? > > > > > > Last I checked (looooong time ago), Unix had the same problem. TCP/IP was, > > > at the time, inhenerntly un-Orangable. > > > > > > > Hmmm.. Data General has a variant of DG/UX which is at least B1 (if not > > C2...) Does anyone know the details there? Perhaps I can dig up some > > old contacts and find out what they did with this issue. > > > > - Dave Rivers - > > > > > > Do they? > > Last I checked, it had not been out of evaluation yet. Has this changed? > It wasnt on the NSA page as of a few weeks ago. > > > > Wow! I know they started working on it around 1989/1990 - if it hasn't gotten out of validation yet, that says a lot... - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 12:30:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17303 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:30:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17288 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:30:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (node22.tfs.net [207.2.220.22]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23500; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:29:06 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA01709; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:29:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710131929.OAA01709@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: from Brian Mitchell at "Oct 13, 97 01:46:02 pm" To: brian@firehouse.net (Brian Mitchell) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:29:14 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > Well, certainly it could achieve C2, though we would need to do a *lot* of > > documentation and testing work, and we may need to include an ACL list based > > filesystem, that depends on your reading of the Orange Book. I'm not > > experienced enough to tell what the "normal" interpretation of the > > requirement that access should be controllable down to the granularity of a > > single user is. In principle one can deny access to an object by creating a > > group with everyone except that user in it and set that to be the object's group > > but I'm not sure a certification group would consider that adequate. > > I'm fairly certain acl is _not_ a requirement in the dcl segment of c2. > acl is, after all, just another form of group control at its very base. certification or not, i personally think that acl-based object access is something that would work in FreeBSD's favor, especially given the now infamous unix-slam from nt fans on the subject... such a thing is needed if unix is to evolve with the market. right now, i really think that acl security is one of the few technical things that nt has going for it. > Yup, this is one of the biggest problems. You cant write to an object > unless it has a security level that is precisely the same. You can only > read unless it is the same or lower. Most people don't come close to > needing B level security; and it is arguable if it is useful for > commercial systems at all. lotsa applications. healthcare, process control, telecom... High Availability drivers would be a plus too... > > Now, if we introduce such things we get a somewhat different view of the > > world than the traditional UNIX-like security model. I do not know if it > > possible to maintain a good enough match to enable us to continue to easily > > port UNIX based software to FreeBSD. > > > Most unix admins dont easily give up the whole idea of the superuser, > which would probably be required for B level. the way i read it, a compatability mode is not addressed by the standards, and thus could possibly pass certification. such a mode would be an absolute necessity for the above mentioned reasons. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 13:47:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22047 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22027 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:47:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24122; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:47:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: jbryant@tfs.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710131911.OAA01678@argus.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > > B2? Who? As for B1, there are plenty of choices. I know argus sold a B1 > > solaris for a long time, and still does - I believe. There is trusted > > solaris, trusted irix, trusted xenix, trusted vms, a trusted digital unix, > > etc > > > > I believe trusted computer solutions has a unrated CMW machine too. Wang > > sells a unix-ish b3 rated product. Plenty of choices :) > > commercial b3??? > > i didn't even know about a commercial b3... wangfed (http://www.wangfed.com) sells xts300, which is b3. tis (http://www.tis.com) sells trusted xenix which is b2. TIS was also working on a trusted mach, which was aimed at b3, but that project has apparently been cancelled. http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/index.html The trusted xenix final eval report is online. The xts300 one is not, but hopefully that will eventually change. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 14:11:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24142 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:11:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dworkin.amber.org (mail@dworkin.amber.org [209.31.146.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24104; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:11:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from petrilli@dworkin.amber.org) Received: (from mail@localhost) by dworkin.amber.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29578; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710132110.RAA29578@dworkin.amber.org> X-Authentication-Warning: dworkin.amber.org: mail set sender to using -f Received: from ab1-02.dial.nova.org(209.31.144.162) by dworkin.amber.org via smap (V1.3) id sma029575; Mon Oct 13 17:10:34 1997 Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 17:09:09 -0400 x-sender: petrilli@dworkin.amber.org x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Christopher Petrilli To: "Brian Mitchell" , "Colman Reilly" cc: "Douglas Carmichael" , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm fairly certain acl is _not_ a requirement in the dcl segment of c2. >acl is, after all, just another form of group control at its very base. It is not "mandatory," however the following paragraph exerpted from the TCSEC does make it clear that the exisintg group mechanism is NOT acceptable: "The access controls shall be capable of including or excluding access to the granulairty of a single user." This exclusion part is what makes it very difficult. You must be capable of giving access to everyone BUT a specific user. While theoretically I guess you could do it by managing billions of sepereate groups, I think it would fail none the less because of practical enforcement concerns. THat having been said, there is one other requirement that would need to be addressed: * Object Reuse (2.2.1.2) THis is defined as follows: "All authorizations to the information contained iwthin a storage object shall be revoked prior to initial assignment, allocation or reallocation to a subject from the TCB's pool of unused storage objects. No information, including encrypted representations of information, produced by a prior subject's actions is to be available to any subject that obtains access to an object that has been released back to the system." Basically, we need to purge all memor when it is allocated, or deallocated. Other than that, it's mostly documentation, and audit. I would really prefer to do an ACL extension to the file system, as I think it's useful as it is :-) Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli "That's right you're | petrilli@amber.org not from Texas." From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 14:16:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24585 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:16:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24552; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA24215; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:15:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: Christopher Petrilli cc: Colman Reilly , Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710132110.RAA29578@dworkin.amber.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Christopher Petrilli wrote: > >I'm fairly certain acl is _not_ a requirement in the dcl segment of c2. > >acl is, after all, just another form of group control at its very base. > > It is not "mandatory," however the following paragraph exerpted from the > TCSEC does make it clear that the exisintg group mechanism is NOT > acceptable: > > "The access controls shall be capable of including or excluding > access > to the granulairty of a single user." > > This exclusion part is what makes it very difficult. You must be capable > of giving access to everyone BUT a specific user. While theoretically I > guess you could do it by managing billions of sepereate groups, I think > it would fail none the less because of practical enforcement concerns. no, it isnt. make a group, put users that cant access it in the group, chmod g-rwx file bang, groups are perfectly able of supporting the needed dac > > THat having been said, there is one other requirement that would need to > be addressed: > > * Object Reuse (2.2.1.2) > > THis is defined as follows: > > "All authorizations to the information contained iwthin a storage object > shall be revoked prior to initial assignment, allocation or reallocation > to a subject from the TCB's pool of unused storage objects. No > information, including encrypted representations of information, produced > by a prior subject's actions is to be available to any subject that > obtains access to an object that has been released back to the system." > > Basically, we need to purge all memor when it is allocated, or > deallocated. > yah, when we release something back into a system, we have to bzero() the contents, or something similar. > Other than that, it's mostly documentation, and audit. I would really > prefer to do an ACL extension to the file system, as I think it's useful > as it is :-) > I think it is useful as well, I just dont think it is a c2 requirement. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 14:32:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25549 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:32:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from www.giovannelli.it (www.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25529 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from giovannelli.it (ts2port4d.masternet.it [194.184.65.215]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00927; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:34:46 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3442AFED.142B189B@giovannelli.it> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:34:05 +0000 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Reply-To: gmarco@giovannelli.it X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vpo0 and 3.0-current References: <199710131639.CAA00352@word.smith.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Smith wrote: > Mike I am sorry to stress you again, but it doens't work :-) > > I have tried to put the following lines in my laptop kernel file to use > > the parallel zip I own (I own 2 scsi too , but the laptop has no scsi > > port :-). > > > > controller ppbus0 > > controller scbus0 # Required ??? > > controller ppc0 at isa? port ? irq 7 vector ppcintr > > controller vpo0 at ppbus? # Zip Parallelo > > device nlpt0 at ppbus? # Stampante > > > > I disable lpt0 and the nlpt0 seems to be recognized, but the zip > > doens't. It is not probed at all ... > > > > Perhaps I miss to add something ? > > Yes; the Zip is a SCSI disk, so you need: > > device sd0 > > as well as the scbus0 controller. Here is the the dmesg output : --- begin --- Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Oct 13 23:05:14 GMT 1997 root@gmarco.eclipse.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/ARTURO CPU: Pentium (165.62-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x544 Stepping=4 Features=0x8001bf real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 30277632 (29568K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x00 on pci0.0.0 pcic0: rev 0x04 int a irq 255 on pci0.1.0 pcic1: rev 0x04 int b irq 255 on pci0.1.1 vga0: rev 0x01 int a irq 255 on pci0.3.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> pccard driver sio added sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 not found at 0x2f8 psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard psm0: device ID 0 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 2067MB (4233600 sectors), 4200 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordy wcd0: 1377Kb/sec, 128Kb cache, audio play, 16 volume levels, tray wcd0: no disc inside pccard driver ep added ep0 not found at 0x300 ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa ppc0: Generic chipset in EPP mode (EPP 1.9) nlpt0: on ppbus 0 nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface apm0 flags 0x11 on isa apm: found APM BIOS version 1.2 PC-Card VLSI 82C146 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) pcic: controller irq 11 --- end dmesg file --- --- begin kernel file --- machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident ARTURO maxusers 10 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options FAILSAFE #Be conservative options USERCONFIG #boot -c editor options VISUAL_USERCONFIG #visual boot -c editor options "VM86" options XSERVER options ATAPI options ATAPI_STATIC #Don't do it as an LKM options KTRACE #Kernel tracing options SYSVSHM config kernel root on wd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr device wcd0 controller scbus0 device sd0 controller ppbus0 controller ppc0 at isa? port ? irq 7 vector ppcintr controller vpo0 at ppbus? # Zip Parallelo device nlpt0 at ppbus? # Stampante device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device apm0 at isa? flags 0x11 # PCCARD (PCMCIA) support controller crd0 device pcic0 at crd? device pcic1 at crd? device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" flags 0x10 tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? disable port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" conflicts tty irq 12 vector psmintr device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 1 pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device bpfilter 4 --- end kernel config --- Have I to change something ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 14:50:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26707 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from burka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@burka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.193.193.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26584 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archer@grape.carrier.kiev.ua) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.193.193.101]) by burka.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA00475 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:48:29 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id AAA23981 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:45:19 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from archer@localhost) by grape.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09675; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:38:48 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:38:48 +0300 (EEST) From: Alexander Litvin Message-Id: <199710132138.AAA09675@grape.carrier.kiev.ua> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. In-Reply-To: <3471.876678779@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Lucky Grape X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970424; i386 FreeBSD 2.2.5-971010-BETA] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <3471.876678779@time.cdrom.com> you wrote: > This is just a notice that time is running out in the BETA test period > and also to inform the commercial folks again that if they have demo > software which they want shipped in the commercial distribution, now > would really be a good time to let me know! ... Is "KERN_VNODE: No such file or directory" going to be in 2.2.5-RELEASE? ;) > Thanks! > Jordan -- Litvin Alexander From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 15:23:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA28823 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:23:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28812 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA29867; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22381; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18455; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:20:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710132220.PAA18455@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:20:55 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Todd \"Taco\" Hansen" "Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed." (Oct 12, 7:39pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: "Todd \"Taco\" Hansen" , Terry Lambert Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 12, 7:39pm, "Todd \"Taco\" Hansen" wrote: } Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. } I am more of a programmer than anything else, but occasionally I have to } do system admin stuff on various FreeBSd boxes. Even some that I have } never seen before. I find the disabled, not probed messages very useful. } They are usually not very long and it makes it very convienent to be } looking for a problem and to just view dmesg and look to make sure the } device was detected. If it says disabled, not probed, then you know } quick and easy what is up. By that logic, the kernel should also print messages for all drivers that were removed from the kernel configuration file. Why isn't the the kernel finding my IDE disks? Oh "wdc0: not compiled into this kernel" ;-) --- Truck From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 17:30:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05723 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05704; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:30:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA28197; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from UNKNOWN(206.165.6.207), claiming to be "usr07.primenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd028190; Tue Oct 14 00:30:13 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15890; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:30:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710140030.RAA15890@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? To: brian@firehouse.net (Brian Mitchell) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:30:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie, dcarmich@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brian Mitchell" at Oct 13, 97 01:46:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For those who want to learn more, the final evaluation reports for several > trusted unixes are available online. Trusted Xenix being one of the more > interesting ones (b2) - TIRIX is also online (b1) and NT (c2). [ ... ] You can not certify an OS. You can only certify an OS installed on a platform. Each different piece of hardware you run it on requires a seperate certification. The certification costs are just the man hours required to run the tests, for what that's worth. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 17:33:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06049 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06025; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-241.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.241]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA08293; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:33:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA10181; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:59:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199710132359.SAA10181@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? In-reply-to: Message from Terry Lambert of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:46:06 -0000." <199710131846.LAA16555@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:59:28 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > esp. when the last power-pc-based computers have been designed? > > Your opinion. I don't think IBM can dump it's server line that > quickly, and Motorola is still building PowerStack systems, FirePower > is still building their boxes, etc.. My opinion is the PowerPC is not dead. Alpha is treading on dangerous ground attempting to court Intel. Hot rumor yesterday on http://www.macosrumors.com was that Motorola and UMAX, unhappy with Apple's recent licensing about-face, were each preparing separate take over attempts. At the same time there is a move within Apple to merge or be bought out by Oracle in order to prevent Motorola or UMAX from being able to swallow them. Possibly the most interesting thing about that tidbit is today that site has been unreachable from my work or home connections. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 17:36:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06422 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:36:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from stox.sa.enteract.com (stox.sa.enteract.com [207.229.132.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06415 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@stox.sa.enteract.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.stox.sa.enteract.com [127.0.0.1]) by stox.sa.enteract.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA00521; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:36:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:36:13 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" Reply-To: stox@enteract.com To: Warner Losh cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710131342.HAA07966@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Warner Losh wrote: >There were folks selling B1/B2 level SYSV based systems a few years >ago. If memory serves correct, there was a UNIX System V/MLS, and System V/ES, multi-level secured and enhanced security, respectively. At this point, one wonders if we should just port MULTICS, and get it over with. :-) Anyone seen a Free PL/1 compiler ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 17:38:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06542 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:38:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06537 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29234; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:38:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from UNKNOWN(206.165.6.207), claiming to be "usr07.primenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd029220; Tue Oct 14 00:38:20 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16216; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:38:20 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710140038.RAA16216@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? To: jbryant@tfs.net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:38:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brian@firehouse.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710131929.OAA01709@argus.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Oct 13, 97 02:29:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > certification or not, i personally think that acl-based object access > is something that would work in FreeBSD's favor, especially given the > now infamous unix-slam from nt fans on the subject... ACL code is trivial, once stacked FS modules works correctly. The quota code ought to be moved to a stacking layer, as well. Unfortunately, the FS framework has problems right now, and it's not terribly clear if they will ever be solved without someone on the core team doing the actual work, since the changes required are so large that only a core team member could do them in the face of the fear that much change generates. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 17:42:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06818 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06813; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29929; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:42:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from UNKNOWN(206.165.6.207), claiming to be "usr07.primenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd029915; Tue Oct 14 00:42:43 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16597; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:42:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710140042.RAA16597@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? To: brian@firehouse.net (Brian Mitchell) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:42:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: petrilli@amber.org, careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie, dcarmich@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brian Mitchell" at Oct 13, 97 05:15:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Basically, we need to purge all memor when it is allocated, or > > deallocated. > > yah, when we release something back into a system, we have to bzero() the > contents, or something similar. This is interesting. Can you give a small sample program for accessing data from another program? As far as I know, pages are either filled from a swap store (and contain data accessable to you) or zero-filled; I can't think of a way (off the top of my head) to make this not true. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 18:04:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08059 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:04:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george-2.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08054 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peb@george.lbl.gov) Received: from localhost (peb@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.6.10/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA27576 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:04:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:04:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Pat Bozeman Reply-To: PBozeman@lbl.gov To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: device major id list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a list of devices and their major id numbers someplace? I know this used to exist in conf.c but it does not exist past 2.1.5. -- Patrick Bozeman PBozeman@lbl.gov From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 18:20:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08879 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08823 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (as1-p1.tfs.net [139.146.205.1]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09144; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:19:44 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA02130; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:19:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710140119.UAA02130@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710131903.PAA02525@lakes.dignus.com> from Thomas David Rivers at "Oct 13, 97 03:03:52 pm" To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:19:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > > > > > > Simon Shapiro writes:> > > > > > > > > Hi Douglas Carmichael; On 13-Oct-97 you wrote: > > > > > Could FreeBSD be made to comply with B1 or C2 trusted system standards > > > > > FOR REAL (unlike NT that can only comply when not hooked up to a > > > > > network)? > > > > > > > > Last I checked (looooong time ago), Unix had the same problem. TCP/IP was, > > > > at the time, inhenerntly un-Orangable. well, i missed this one earlier... ! ! ! W R O N G ! ! ! RFC 791 (IP) addresses this issue in the sections marked type of service / precedence option 130 - security / compartments / handling restrictions / TCC Compartments and Handling values are available from the Defense Intelligence Agency. TCC from DCA. RFC 793 (TCP) section 2.9 addresses this issue. these have ALWAYS been in TCP/IP, and were original design specifications. keep in mind that the protocols were for use by the ARPA which heavily involved weapons research. such options of course involve the physical security of all transmission lines / switches / routers up to and including the gateway to the next security level. next time please read the most basic reference material before making such ignorant comments. the rfcs are a good starting point. ignorance is curable through education. there is no known cure for stupidity though. thank god i caught it in time... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 18:20:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08924 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08886; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:20:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12696; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:19:59 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA13984; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 03:19:54 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 03:19:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199710140119.DAA13984@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Brian Mitchell CC: petrilli@amber.org, careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie, dcarmich@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Brian Mitchell's message of Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? References: <199710132110.RAA29578@dworkin.amber.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Basically, we need to purge all memor when it is allocated, or > > deallocated. > > > yah, when we release something back into a system, we have to bzero() the > contents, or something similar. Something like that already done, AFAIK. Doing anything else would be a serious security break no matter whether we wanted a security branding. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 18:28:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09487 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09475 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA04317; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:27:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:27:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: benedict@echonyc.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dwhite stumped In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Snob Art Genre wrote: I used to get this once in a while with Netscape; I believe this was only with the 3.0 BSDi patched, not the new 4.0x native. Never did figure out what it meant, but it went away when I started using 4.0. Of course, it could be coincidence and completely unrelated to Netscape, but that's my $.02. > I, too, have been seeing this. Does anyone know? > > > Ben > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:18:15 -0700 (PDT) > From: Doug White > Reply-To: Doug White > To: "K. Marsh" > Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: spwd.db error messages > > On Sat, 4 Oct 1997, K. Marsh wrote: > > > I've been getting an error message ever since I installed FreeBSD, and I > > still haven't figured out where it's coming from. I must admit, it seems > > obvious. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > > > Here's the message: > > Oct 4 13:05:08 ken2 syslog: /etc/spwd.db: Invalid argument > > If you figure it out, tell me. My 2.2.1 box booted it out last month. > > I don't think it's related to syslog. > > Doug White | University of Oregon > Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant > http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * FreeBSD: turning PCs into workstations * | Windows: turning workstations into typewriters | * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 18:45:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10778 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10765 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (as1-p1.tfs.net [139.146.205.1]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12194; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:44:41 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA02191; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:44:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710140144.UAA02191@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710140038.RAA16216@usr07.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 14, 97 00:38:20 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:44:45 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > certification or not, i personally think that acl-based object access > > is something that would work in FreeBSD's favor, especially given the > > now infamous unix-slam from nt fans on the subject... > > ACL code is trivial, once stacked FS modules works correctly. The quota agreed. additional filesystem flags. i'm thinking that existing apps COULD be integrated seamlessly. an IP approach could be used with a twist such that null flags would indicate unclass, and thus either no acl action would be taken; or a db lookup made, and if no db entries, no acl action made, etc... i prefer the latter method, as it would allow acl to be added to even pre-acl objects. the IP approach to filesystem flags would only require an additional 11 bytes per entry if used verbatim from IP, and might ease a transition to a compliant TCP/IP stack, could also be used to segregate the acls themselves [secret flag indicates that acl is located on secret media, not confidential media]... the key to any such DESIGN would require the transparent inclusion of non-compliant apps as unclass, non-acl items. of course the capability would exist to reclassify and add acl access transparent to the app. > code ought to be moved to a stacking layer, as well. Unfortunately, the > FS framework has problems right now, and it's not terribly clear if they > will ever be solved without someone on the core team doing the actual > work, since the changes required are so large that only a core team member > could do them in the face of the fear that much change generates. yes the changes would be large, and of course would require core team coordination. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 18:58:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11664 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11643; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA04662; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:53:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:53:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Christopher Petrilli cc: Brian Mitchell , Colman Reilly , Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710132110.RAA29578@dworkin.amber.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Christopher Petrilli wrote: > >I'm fairly certain acl is _not_ a requirement in the dcl segment of c2. > >acl is, after all, just another form of group control at its very base. > > It is not "mandatory," however the following paragraph exerpted from the > TCSEC does make it clear that the exisintg group mechanism is NOT > acceptable: > > "The access controls shall be capable of including or excluding > access > to the granulairty of a single user." I could be just being stupid here, but can't you do this by making everyone a member of a group with their login ID, and them only as a member and setting the file to (owner).user, mode 707, or something? Wouldn't that give everyone but that persona ccess to it? Did anyone even follow that? not too clear, is it... > > This exclusion part is what makes it very difficult. You must be capable > of giving access to everyone BUT a specific user. While theoretically I > guess you could do it by managing billions of sepereate groups, I think > it would fail none the less because of practical enforcement concerns. > > Other than that, it's mostly documentation, and audit. I would really > prefer to do an ACL extension to the file system, as I think it's useful > as it is :-) > > Chris > > -- > | Christopher Petrilli "That's right you're > | petrilli@amber.org not from Texas." *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * FreeBSD: turning PCs into workstations * | Windows: turning workstations into typewriters | * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 19:00:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11942 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11935 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:00:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24345; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:24:56 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710132024.VAA24345@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: two natd's running? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:23:57 EDT." <199710131523.LAA01999@lakes.dignus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:24:56 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is a rather old question I'm just now getting around to... > > What I have is a situation where I'd like to two SL/IP connections > going with multiple natd's running. > > Several people had suggested simply having two divert rules in > rc.firewall and running the two natd's that way. > > Here's what I've got the gateway (a 2.2-970510-RELENG machine) at > 10.0.0.1: > > ipfw -f flush > ipfw -f add 10 divert 32001 ip from any to 192.42.243.0/24 via sl1 You can't masquerade in just one direction.... add ipfw -f add 10 divert 32001 ip from 192.42.243.0/24 to any via sl1 > ipfw -f add 20 divert 32000 ip from any to any via sl0 > ipfw -f add pass ip from any to any [.....] > - Thanks - > - Dave Rivers - > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 19:02:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA12050 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12036 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:01:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (as1-p1.tfs.net [139.146.205.1]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14141; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:01:32 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA02245; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:01:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710140201.VAA02245@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710140042.RAA16597@usr07.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 14, 97 00:42:39 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:01:41 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > > Basically, we need to purge all memor when it is allocated, or > > > deallocated. > > > > yah, when we release something back into a system, we have to bzero() the > > contents, or something similar. > > This is interesting. Can you give a small sample program for accessing > data from another program? As far as I know, pages are either filled > from a swap store (and contain data accessable to you) or zero-filled; > I can't think of a way (off the top of my head) to make this not true. he is right.. i think that this is required for even c2... simply change all new page allocations to zero each core cell prior to returning the page to the caller. in other words all calls to malloc must be using the calloc system call [syscall table]. i also believe that all swap pages and core would have to be zeroed UPON FREE also. the swap pages would have to be WRITTEN SYNCHRONOUSLY to zero them verifiably. performance drop, i know... also, would a FIPS three-pass scrub be needed for this? if so, vm perfs will go to crap. i think just a single-pass swap-page scrub will suffice though... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 19:08:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA12757 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dworkin.amber.org (mail@dworkin.amber.org [209.31.146.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12732; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:08:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from petrilli@dworkin.amber.org) Received: (from mail@localhost) by dworkin.amber.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA00781; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710140208.WAA00781@dworkin.amber.org> X-Authentication-Warning: dworkin.amber.org: mail set sender to using -f Received: from ab2-12.dial.nova.org(209.31.144.204) by dworkin.amber.org via smap (V1.3) id sma000778; Mon Oct 13 22:08:42 1997 Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 22:07:19 -0400 x-sender: petrilli@dworkin.amber.org x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Christopher Petrilli To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: "Brian Mitchell" , "Colman Reilly" , "Douglas Carmichael" , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 10/13/97 9:53 PM, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >I could be just being stupid here, but can't you do this by making >everyone a member of a group with their login ID, and them only as a >member and setting the file to (owner).user, mode 707, or something? >Wouldn't that give everyone but that persona ccess to it? >Did anyone even follow that? not too clear, is it... But what about when you have 10,000 users, and you need 486 of them to not have access? Do you see the issue of performance slowly creeping up when yyou have 50,000 groups? This becomes a hideous nightmare. Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli "That's right you're | petrilli@amber.org not from Texas." From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 19:38:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14081 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com (3UN4O8SdDF1H+DdDQcen1rF2N4I21Jzv@harlan.fred.net [205.252.219.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA14075 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from harlan@mumps.pfcs.com) Received: from mumps.pfcs.com (mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11]) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA02928 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by mumps.pfcs.com with SMTP id AA13635 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:37:31 -0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. In-Reply-To: Taco's message of "Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:39:25 PDT." <344189DD.3B54AFBF@mad.scientist.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:37:29 -0300 Message-Id: <13633.876796649@mumps.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd rather see "what happened" messages on the console during boot, and a more detailed list of "what did and didn't happen" written to the disk file. Perhaps changing the printf's to a macro or subroutine, and separating the verbosity levels of the "console" and the "log file" information streams. H From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 19:48:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14596 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:48:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from azrael.uoregon.edu (azrael.uoregon.edu [128.223.194.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA14512; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:47:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (wesman@localhost) by azrael.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05323; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:48:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Wesley Horner Reply-To: wesman@oregon.uoregon.edu To: dkelly@hiwaay.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? In-Reply-To: <199710132359.SAA10181@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The reason macosrumors can't be reache is because of an Alternet problem. They aren't the only site that can't be reached. I would love to run freebsd on a ppc chip. wes ~~~~wesman@gladstone.uoregon.edu~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vax a viscious creature known to eat 110AC and quotes through its *DCL*. Vax are usually found in groups of Vaxen called clusters where they lay in wait to ravage thier prey known as users. On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > > esp. when the last power-pc-based computers have been designed? > > > > Your opinion. I don't think IBM can dump it's server line that > > quickly, and Motorola is still building PowerStack systems, FirePower > > is still building their boxes, etc.. > > My opinion is the PowerPC is not dead. Alpha is treading on dangerous > ground attempting to court Intel. > > Hot rumor yesterday on http://www.macosrumors.com was that Motorola > and UMAX, unhappy with Apple's recent licensing about-face, were each > preparing separate take over attempts. At the same time there is a > move within Apple to merge or be bought out by Oracle in order to > prevent Motorola or UMAX from being able to swallow them. > > Possibly the most interesting thing about that tidbit is today that > site has been unreachable from my work or home connections. > > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net > ===================================================================== > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 20:57:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18527 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:57:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18503; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:57:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.TransSys.COM) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.TransSys.COM (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA11403; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710140357.XAA11403@whizzo.TransSys.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: wesman@oregon.uoregon.edu cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? References: In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:48:00 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:57:16 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The reason macosrumors can't be reache is because of an Alternet problem. > They aren't the only site that can't be reached. I would love to run > freebsd on a ppc chip. Uh, the path across Alternet looks OK; the trace stops at what appears to be the one hop beyond the router which connects to Alternet: # traceroute www.macosrumors.com traceroute to www.macosrumors.com (204.193.135.146), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 Alternet-GW (144.202.42.1) 2.164 ms 1.988 ms 2.068 ms 2 Loopback0.BR1.DCA1.Alter.Net (137.39.2.211) 8.099 ms 12.902 ms 5.757 ms 3 101.ATM11-0-0.XR1.DCA1.ALTER.NET (137.39.64.78) 5.757 ms 5.652 ms 12.317 ms 4 195.ATM2-0-0.CR1.TCO1.ALTER.NET (137.39.64.205) 9.790 ms 6.827 ms 18.972 ms 5 315.ATM1-0-0.GW1.TCO1.Alter.Net (137.39.74.54) 9.770 ms 6.613 ms 7.039 ms 6 digitalNATION-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.32.210) 68.250 ms 63.207 ms 75.585 ms 7 * * * 8 *^C From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 21:07:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19065 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:07:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (bob.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19059 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:07:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ccsanady@bob.scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bob.scl.ameslab.gov (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13105; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:06:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199710140406.XAA13105@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: jbryant@tfs.net cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Large scale code integrations (Was: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:44:45 CDT." <199710140144.UAA02191@argus.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:06:42 -0500 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> code ought to be moved to a stacking layer, as well. Unfortunately, the >> FS framework has problems right now, and it's not terribly clear if they >> will ever be solved without someone on the core team doing the actual >> work, since the changes required are so large that only a core team member >> could do them in the face of the fear that much change generates. > >yes the changes would be large, and of course would require core team >coordination. Terry has actually done much of the work to get our FS framework into shape, it just has not been integrated because of its size and impact. I think Jordan was going to try to help get things started on this a while ago, but I don't remember exactly. I for one would really love to see a working stackable FS framework. Also the locking changes for NFS, etc.. I don't know if this sort of thing is typical for large changes in general, but it does worry me when contemplating them. There just seem to be things which can not really be broken up, yet still need doing. :\ What is the proper way to go about these, and still have something that can be integrated? Perhaps sometimes it would just be best give them a thorough once over, and bite the bullet. If current is not the right place for things such as this, what is? Perhaps put them in a seperate branch so that other people can test them, and not have it forgotten. Would it not be easier to maintain as well? For what its worth.. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 21:24:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20016 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20007; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-206.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.206]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA14425; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:24:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA17794; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:24:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199710140424.XAA17794@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Message from Christopher Petrilli of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:07:19 EDT." <199710140208.WAA00781@dworkin.amber.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:24:27 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (why hasn't this moved completely to freebsd-security?) Christopher Petrilli writes: > > But what about when you have 10,000 users, and you need 486 of them to > not have access? Do you see the issue of performance slowly creeping up > when yyou have 50,000 groups? This becomes a hideous nightmare. Just because its a hideous nightmare doesn't mean it doesn't meet spec. :-) Remember, for the most part we're talking about security specs brought to you by the same government that would limit cryptography to key escrow techniques. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 22:00:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22092 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:00:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22086 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:00:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00749; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:26:52 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710140456.OAA00749@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: gmarco@giovannelli.it cc: Mike Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vpo0 and 3.0-current In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:34:05 GMT." <3442AFED.142B189B@giovannelli.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:26:51 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Mike I am sorry to stress you again, but it doens't work :-) Well, is the Zip plugged in and turned on? 8) > Here is the the dmesg output : > > --- begin --- > ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa > ppc0: Generic chipset in EPP mode (EPP 1.9) > nlpt0: on ppbus 0 > nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port Well, it ain't there. Check your cable, remove any printer and/or switchbox that you may have in the way as well. Check your BIOS settings for the parallel port and swap around the possible modes to see if that helps. > controller scbus0 > device sd0 > > controller ppbus0 > controller ppc0 at isa? port ? irq 7 vector ppcintr > controller vpo0 at ppbus? # Zip Parallelo > device nlpt0 at ppbus? # Stampante > Have I to change something ? No, your config looks fine; it should work. If you're 100% certain that it's all connected and there's nothing possible that might interfere, it would help if you could identify your parallel port chipset (usually the multi-I/O chip on your motherboard) and mail the details of your problem to ppbus@smith.net.au, and we'll get the boyz to work on it. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 22:03:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22213 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:03:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from brickbat9.mindspring.com (brickbat9.mindspring.com [207.69.200.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22208 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpneal@pobox.com) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-37kbo23.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.224.67]) by brickbat9.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA19291 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971014050321.006e0640@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:03:21 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: Large scale code integrations (Was: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD?) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:06 PM 10/13/97 -0500, Chris Csanady wrote: > >>> code ought to be moved to a stacking layer, as well. Unfortunately, the >>> FS framework has problems right now, and it's not terribly clear if they >>> will ever be solved without someone on the core team doing the actual >>> work, since the changes required are so large that only a core team member >>> could do them in the face of the fear that much change generates. >> >>yes the changes would be large, and of course would require core team >>coordination. > >Terry has actually done much of the work to get our FS framework into shape, >it just has not been integrated because of its size and impact. I think Jordan >was going to try to help get things started on this a while ago, but I don't >remember exactly. I for one would really love to see a working stackable FS >framework. Also the locking changes for NFS, etc.. > >I don't know if this sort of thing is typical for large changes in general, but >it does worry me when contemplating them. There just seem to be things which >can not really be broken up, yet still need doing. :\ What is the proper way >to go about these, and still have something that can be integrated? A branch for the changes to go on, and move them over when they are fully baked? Oh joy, more branches. :/ -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu Spoken by Keir Finlow-Bates: XCOMM "Good grief, I've just noticed I've typed in a rant. Sorry chaps!" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 22:14:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22887 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:14:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22859 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00799; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:40:56 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710140510.OAA00799@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Fred L. Templin" cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:39:49 MST." <199710131739.KAA03124@grayling.erg.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:40:56 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I'm not sure I understand why you want to manipulate the per-slot > > mappings. The card offers a window of some fixed size, which you can > > relocate over its internal address space, correct? If this is the > > case, then you only map this window once, and subsequently fiddle the > > cards internals to shift the window around. > > The problem is that the card really doesn't have any internals to shift > around. It presents itself as a contiguous chunk of approx. 96KB of > common memory and expects the host to write data and commands into the > correct locations. Is there any other way to handle this besides re- > mapping the 4KB window that gets set up when the card is inserted? You could map a larger window; that'd certainly be better. TBH I haven't checked to see if there is a limitation that would prevent you from having a 96kB window for your card. > > Note that it's possible (not having checked the code) that the memory > > mapped for the card is revoked before the removal hook is called (it > > shouldn't be, but it might). If that's the case, polling as above may > > cause a kernel fault, and the unmapping will have to be fixed. > > This is what concerns me; de-referencing bogus pointers while manipulating > the per-slot window mappings in my driver after the slot driver disappears > and takes it's data structures with it. This concern goes away if there is > some other way for me to program my card besides fiddling with the window > mapping, or if some mutual exclusion can be provided between the slot > driver and my driver while dealing with the per-slot data structures. > Any ideas on either approach would be welcome... Well, the mapping isn't bogus until it's revoked by disable_slot(), and it's not revoked until _after_ the driver unload function is called. So you are guaranteed notification (at splhigh()) of card removal before your mapping is revoked. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 22:31:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23689 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23682 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (as1-p1.tfs.net [139.146.205.1]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05853; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:30:53 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id AAA02530; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:31:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710140531.AAA02530@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710140424.XAA17794@nospam.hiwaay.net> from "dkelly@hiwaay.net" at "Oct 13, 97 11:24:27 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:31:02 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > (why hasn't this moved completely to freebsd-security?) > > Christopher Petrilli writes: > > > > But what about when you have 10,000 users, and you need 486 of them to > > not have access? Do you see the issue of performance slowly creeping up > > when yyou have 50,000 groups? This becomes a hideous nightmare. > > Just because its a hideous nightmare doesn't mean it doesn't meet spec. :-) > > Remember, for the most part we're talking about security specs brought to > you by the same government that would limit cryptography to key escrow > techniques. the same government that managed to keep the f117a under wraps for 25 years... despite all of the spies posing as ufo geeks at groom lake... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 13 23:52:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27567 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:52:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27560 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA29510; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:49:50 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: "Todd 'Taco' Hansen" cc: benedict@echonyc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dwhite stumped In-Reply-To: <344253EF.345BF651@mad.scientist.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ditto with 4.03b8, but just once, and it was fixed with a rebuild... Bizarre message to see on the console when starting your browser. Charles On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Todd 'Taco' Hansen wrote: > I get that error when I accidentally start two copies of netscape as the > same user. Other times too but all were netscape related. You could > alwyas remake the pwd db mkpwd? I think it helped once. > -taco > > > Snob Art Genre wrote: > > > > I, too, have been seeing this. Does anyone know? > > > > Ben > > > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:18:15 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Doug White > > Reply-To: Doug White > > To: "K. Marsh" > > Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: spwd.db error messages > > > > On Sat, 4 Oct 1997, K. Marsh wrote: > > > > > I've been getting an error message ever since I installed FreeBSD, and I > > > still haven't figured out where it's coming from. I must admit, it seems > > > obvious. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Here's the message: > > > Oct 4 13:05:08 ken2 syslog: /etc/spwd.db: Invalid argument > > > > If you figure it out, tell me. My 2.2.1 box booted it out last month. > > > > I don't think it's related to syslog. > > > > Doug White | University of Oregon > > Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant > > http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major > > > -- > Todd Hansen, KD6YPS (Taco) > taco@mad.scientist.com > http://millenium.atcg.com/ > > "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive...it is the right > of the people to alter or to abolish it" - Declaration Of Independence > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 00:54:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01759 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:54:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trifork.gu.net (trifork.gu.net [194.93.190.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01746 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:54:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.gu.kiev.ua [127.0.0.1]) by trifork.gu.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA11168 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:54:43 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:54:43 +0300 (EEST) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New PPP? (Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. In-Reply-To: <199710132138.AAA09675@grape.carrier.kiev.ua> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk BTW: how about the most modern PPP stuff (by Brian Somers) present in -current? will it be the part of 2.2.5? Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 01:04:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02539 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:04:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (mail-gw.utimaco.co.at [195.96.28.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02531 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:04:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29459 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:51:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wshpux.utimaco.co.at(10.0.0.18) by safeconcept via smap (V2.0) id xma029457; Tue, 14 Oct 97 09:51:45 +0200 Message-ID: <34432546.B7A4E935@utimaco.co.at> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:54:46 +0200 From: Michael Schuster Organization: Utimaco Safe Concept GmbH., Linz, Austria X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02b7 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.01 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: re: good name for a (in fact 2) new module(s) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer wrote: > The second module is a disk layering framework that works in conjunction > with DEVFS. All direct-access devices (e.g. disks) are accessed via the > framework, with arbitrary stacking allowed. how about DiskStreams or something like that - its in the same line as Streams (even if the name may not appeal to some people). -- Michael Schuster Utimaco Safe Concept GmbH. | Tel: +43 732 655755 41 Europaplatz 6 | Fax: +43 732 655755 5 A-4020 Linz Austria | email: Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 05:26:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA12894 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA12886 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:25:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA00629; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:25:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710141225.FAA00629@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? To: stox@enteract.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:25:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: imp@village.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Kenneth P. Stox" at Oct 13, 97 07:36:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >There were folks selling B1/B2 level SYSV based systems a few years > >ago. > > If memory serves correct, there was a UNIX System V/MLS, and System > V/ES, multi-level secured and enhanced security, respectively. At this > point, one wonders if we should just port MULTICS, and get it over with. > :-) Anyone seen a Free PL/1 compiler ? Hey! I wrote a PL/1 to C translator back in 1983. I know I have it on a 9 track tape somewhere! Man, talk about hand-crafted crap code! That's from my days of turning out student quality code; I certainly won't be dusting off that tape and letting people look inside my (very) old underwear any time soon! It'd be pretty trivial to write one using Lex/Yacc. You could start with a Pascal grammar; the syntax is near-identical. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 05:30:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA13062 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13057 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA01086; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:30:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710141230.FAA01086@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fnord0: disabled, not probed. To: Harlan.Stenn@pfcs.com (Harlan Stenn) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:30:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <13633.876796649@mumps.pfcs.com> from "Harlan Stenn" at Oct 13, 97 10:37:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd rather see "what happened" messages on the console during boot, and > a more detailed list of "what did and didn't happen" written to the disk > file. > > Perhaps changing the printf's to a macro or subroutine, and separating > the verbosity levels of the "console" and the "log file" information streams. Hey, yeah! Seperate what gets displayed vs. what gets dmesg'ed! I still don't like making the boot less verbose simply to make the boot less verbose; if you were serious about it, you would boot to a graphical login screen by default, and would be able to override and get a console display window (which then went to a graphical login screen). This is how NeXTStep boots. But seperating the logged vs. displayed seems like the best compromise I've seen so far (assuming a -v can get everything logged to be displayed as well). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 05:40:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA13575 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13540; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:40:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA01458; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:40:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710141240.FAA01458@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:40:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710140424.XAA17794@nospam.hiwaay.net> from "dkelly@hiwaay.net" at Oct 13, 97 11:24:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Remember, for the most part we're talking about security specs brought to > you by the same government that would limit cryptography to key escrow > techniques. The FBI web page has a link explaining their position: legally obtained wire taps. I can't help thinking that, even though this doesn't violate search and seizure (since wire taps a re performed with due process of law, needing a court order), it probably violates compelling one to testify against oneself. Unless you can get wire taps thrown out altogether, then strong cryptography is potentiatially an act of obstruction of justice, and the FBI has a point of law in their favor. Personally, I think all wire taps should be illegal on the basis of them being an act of compelling someone to testify against themselves. But until someone tests this (probably a real criminal, unfortunately) and gets the evidence thrown out as unconstitutionally obtained, then existing case law favors Key Escrow. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 05:44:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA13780 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:44:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13775 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:44:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA01733; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:44:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710141244.FAA01733@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Large scale code integrations (Was: Re: C2 Trusted To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:44:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971014050321.006e0640@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Oct 14, 97 01:03:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I don't know if this sort of thing is typical for large changes in > >general, but it does worry me when contemplating them. There just > >seem to be things which can not really be broken up, yet still need > >doing. :\ What is the proper way to go about these, and still have > >something that can be integrated? > > A branch for the changes to go on, and move them over when they are > fully baked? > > Oh joy, more branches. :/ A branch would be one way. It wouldn't let you fix the glaring code layout problems, unfortunately, like config not being built as necessary for kernel configuration changes, or seperation of bus code from architecture code to aid in porting to multiple platforms, etc.. So branch tags are not a panacea; but they'd fix this case... There are still "merge" issues with history files, however. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 05:57:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA14441 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:57:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wafu.netgate.net (wafu.netgate.net [204.145.147.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA14433 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:57:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shigio@wafu.netgate.net) Received: from chiota.signet.or.jp (INS87.tama.dti.ne.jp [210.159.144.41]) by wafu.netgate.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA13378; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:58:13 GMT Message-Id: <199710140458.EAA13378@wafu.netgate.net> Received: from chiota.signet.or.jp (localhost.signet.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by chiota.signet.or.jp (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA03023; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:56:43 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net Subject: Rewriting global(1) with C. Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:56:41 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm Shigio Yamaguchi, the author of GLOBAL. I'm thinking of rewriting global(1) with C. My reason for doing this is because current global(1) written with perl(1) is slow to start. Since it is frequently executed internally in nvi(1), emacs (gtags.el) and WWW server (global.cgi), I think it is meaningful to do it. At the same time, I will adopt POSIX regular expression library regex(3) (included by BSD and GNU package) instead of perl's '/pattern/' command. Regex(3) in extended mode is nearly equal to egrep's regular expression. This means global's spec will be changed slightly. For example, currently you can use perl's regular expression like this. % global -x '^for\x6b\d' # \x6b == 'k' fork1 119 kern/kern_fork.c fork1(p1, flags, retval) But new version would print nothing. % global -x '^for\x6b\d' % Is this correct? If you cannot accept this change, please let me know. Thank you in advance. -- Shigio Yamaguchi (Freelance programmer) Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, WWW: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 06:00:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA14598 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:00:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA14590 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:00:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA02273; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:00:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710141300.GAA02273@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? To: jbryant@tfs.net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:00:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710140531.AAA02530@argus.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Oct 14, 97 00:31:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > the same government that managed to keep the f117a under wraps for 25 > years... despite all of the spies posing as ufo geeks at groom lake... Spies aren't very smart. Until I decided that there was really nothing very interesting out there (ah, misspent youth, where one will believe anything), I thought of sending in a mostly wooden and wind-up mechanical camoflaged robot whose electronics were only activated after the springs wound down, and would transmit pictures out on pseudo-random frequency shift to avoid jamming and lower the chances of detection. Depending on how far in the active curtain goes (they have to be able to communicate with their own equipment, after all, without interference and without triggering a security alert), once the electronics came active, you might even be able to RPV it in for a close look at the "UFO hangers" without it being detected by anything other than motion detectors... Real spies, of course, have synthetic aperture optical satellites in pairs and triplets in order to have very large effective optical telescopes pointed at the ground. Only the UFO nuts would need wooden wind-up robots disguised as sage-brush. ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 06:26:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA15825 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA15814 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:26:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (pm3-p14.tfs.net [206.154.183.206]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05470; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:25:52 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA03239; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:26:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710141326.IAA03239@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: F1.17 (was Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19971014184705.14861@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Oct 14, 97 06:47:05 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:26:02 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > On Tue, Oct 14, 1997 at 05:27:29PM +0930, Mike Smith wrote: > >> Now the B2, on the other hand - that may indeed be a bomber who's > >> primary mission no longer justifies its cost. Better to do today's > >> job with smaller, less expensive units. > > > > The notion that you need a pilot at the controls at all is the > > obsolescent concept. With todays state-of-the-art in semi- and > > fully-autonomous RPVs, piloted military aircraft are close to becoming > > dinosaurs. > > OK, guys, who's going to be the first to have a FreeBSD box fly a > bomber? We DO have an ADA compiler. beside the point... sorry guys... i should have realized from the initial gov-slam what the guy was doing... interesting discussion, all i wanted to do was to point out that the gentleman in question was both off topic and out of line, concerning the government's ability to keep a secret. which has everything to do with the topic, but i guess analogies are too much for some people. this topic has nothing to do with key escrow, or the government building bombing right-wing unpatriotic whacko-movement's idea of what key escrow is. listen to the whackos on their mouthpieces [WWCR shortwave, others] and if you still question key escrow, then i question your motives. now the statements are being extended to proven effective weapons systems, which is a lively topic, but has no place here. what i know about tomahawk, i cannot say here, but that the weapon works much better than anyone else here knows. btw: there is nothing wrong with the surface coatings of the f117a, the problems have been found in the b2, and are actively being solved... get your facts straight before inserting your foot in your mouth. for those of us who know the facts, let's get back on the original topic of C2+ security. for the other gentleman, please take your crap to alt.conspiracy, which, based on your commments, is right up your alley. this topic has no place in -hackers, if it keeps going, i'm going to rip into someone and make him look like a fool [with UNCLASS facts, of course]. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 07:14:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA19005 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:14:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA18995 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:14:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (pm3-p14.tfs.net [206.154.183.206]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12476; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:14:20 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA03316; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:14:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710141414.JAA03316@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <19971014094541.35273@golden.net> from Dave Chapeskie at "Oct 14, 97 09:45:41 am" To: dchapes@golden.net (Dave Chapeskie) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:14:31 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > In 1975 the USAF ordered two scaled down prototypes from Lockheed > under the code name "Have Blue". The first of these flew in 1977. In congressional r & d funding was underway in 1973, and it is realistically speculated that the initial funding proposals go back at least five years before that. unclassified microwave journals and their topics at least indicate the topic was well into discussion as far back as '68; cross section studies and absorption studies that have direct relation to current stealth techniqques. i seem to have had the public release date wrong by five years though if you are correct, and for the sake of argument, i'll say you are. yes this is off topic, but if you go back to the original reply from me, please note the context, and that i was trying to kill an off topic political discussion concerning key escrow at the time. as far as i'm concerned, i consider this topic dropped. flame to /dev/null [to jordan: he got yer dander up, eh?] jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 07:49:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA21180 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:49:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21150 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:48:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21808; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:48:38 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA15767; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:48:38 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:48:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199710141448.QAA15767@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" In-reply-to: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Mon, 06 Oct 1997 09:58:08 -0700 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: src/Makefile all sorted out. References: <5158.876157088@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [jkh] > My SMP box is still in the process of being constructed, so you'll > have to wait before I can tell you whether or not -j8 follows this > trend for 2 P6/200 CPUs. :-) For what it is worth: I found the best performance for compiles -j6 to -j7 on an idle SGI Challenge with 4 CPUs, fast RAID disks, and enough (1 GB) RAM. An interesting experiment would be to try to make world with everything on an MFS with enough RAM to back it - anybody out there with enough RAM should try (I haven't, at the moment). Eivind. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 08:30:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA23958 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:30:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from stt3.com (root@stt3.com [198.107.49.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23938; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:30:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@stt3.com) Received: from durin(really [192.168.0.88]) by stt3.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1997-Mar-5) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:29:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie X-Sender: beattie@durin To: Christopher Petrilli cc: Brian Mitchell , Colman Reilly , Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710132110.RAA29578@dworkin.amber.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Christopher Petrilli wrote: > > THat having been said, there is one other requirement that would need to > be addressed: > > * Object Reuse (2.2.1.2) > > THis is defined as follows: > > "All authorizations to the information contained iwthin a storage object > shall be revoked prior to initial assignment, allocation or reallocation > to a subject from the TCB's pool of unused storage objects. No > information, including encrypted representations of information, produced > by a prior subject's actions is to be available to any subject that > obtains access to an object that has been released back to the system." > > Basically, we need to purge all memor when it is allocated, or > deallocated. > Nope, only when it is allocated, and this is allready done. The reason is that until it is allocated, no "subject" has access to the "object". From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 08:38:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA24564 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from stt3.com (root@stt3.com [198.107.49.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24542; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:38:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@stt3.com) Received: from durin(really [192.168.0.88]) by stt3.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1997-Mar-5) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:37:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie X-Sender: beattie@durin To: Christopher Petrilli cc: Brian Mitchell , Colman Reilly , Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710132110.RAA29578@dworkin.amber.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Christopher Petrilli wrote: > It is not "mandatory," however the following paragraph exerpted from the > TCSEC does make it clear that the exisintg group mechanism is NOT > acceptable: > > "The access controls shall be capable of including or excluding > access > to the granulairty of a single user." > > This exclusion part is what makes it very difficult. You must be capable > of giving access to everyone BUT a specific user. While theoretically I > guess you could do it by managing billions of sepereate groups, I think > it would fail none the less because of practical enforcement concerns. > This is an over-rigous reading of this requirement. The Gould (B1?) system made it clear that UNIX access control meets this requirement. This can be understood when you read the requirement to say that: it must be possible to exclude access to an object by one particular user. This does not say that the system must provide a mechanizim to exclude access to an object by everyuser on a user-by-user basis, a requirement every system would fail. When reading the Orange Book, remember that to meet the requirements it is in general sufficent to meet only the minumum requirements. The authors were very careful is laying out the requirements with-out makeing asumptions on how they might be met. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 08:40:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA24754 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:40:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from stt3.com (root@stt3.com [198.107.49.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24713; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@stt3.com) Received: from durin(really [192.168.0.88]) by stt3.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:39:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1997-Mar-5) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:39:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie X-Sender: beattie@durin To: Terry Lambert cc: Brian Mitchell , careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie, dcarmich@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710140030.RAA15890@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > For those who want to learn more, the final evaluation reports for several > > trusted unixes are available online. Trusted Xenix being one of the more > > interesting ones (b2) - TIRIX is also online (b1) and NT (c2). > > [ ... ] > > You can not certify an OS. You can only certify an OS installed on a > platform. > > Each different piece of hardware you run it on requires a seperate > certification. > > The certification costs are just the man hours required to run the > tests, for what that's worth. > > Plus travel, phone, fax etc... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 08:46:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25269 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:46:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from stt3.com (root@stt3.com [198.107.49.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25264; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:46:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@stt3.com) Received: from durin(really [192.168.0.88]) by stt3.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:45:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1997-Mar-5) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:45:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie X-Sender: beattie@durin To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: Christopher Petrilli , Brian Mitchell , Colman Reilly , Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Christopher Petrilli wrote: > > > >I'm fairly certain acl is _not_ a requirement in the dcl segment of c2. > > >acl is, after all, just another form of group control at its very base. > > > > It is not "mandatory," however the following paragraph exerpted from the > > TCSEC does make it clear that the exisintg group mechanism is NOT > > acceptable: > > > > "The access controls shall be capable of including or excluding > > access > > to the granulairty of a single user." > I could be just being stupid here, but can't you do this by making > everyone a member of a group with their login ID, and them only as a > member and setting the file to (owner).user, mode 707, or something? > Wouldn't that give everyone but that persona ccess to it? > Did anyone even follow that? not too clear, is it... > Some people often read this requirement to mean that it must be possible to set access rights on a file to exclude some arbitrary set of users. To do this you need one group for each permutation of users. Techincally possible but infeasable. In fact I agree with your interpretation and I believe so do the evaluators and most people in the INFOSEC community. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 09:59:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00730 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:59:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00717 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:59:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id JAA03886; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:59:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199710141659.JAA03886@grayling.erg.sri.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: Mike Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, templin@erg.sri.com Subject: Re: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:40:56 +0930." <199710140510.OAA00799@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:58:58 -0700 From: "Fred L. Templin" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike, > You could map a larger window; that'd certainly be better. TBH I > haven't checked to see if there is a limitation that would prevent you > from having a 96kB window for your card. This would be nice, but I'm somewhat skeptical it will be possible. I'll certainly check into it with an optimistic viewpoint, however. > So you are guaranteed notification (at splhigh()) of card removal > before your mapping is revoked. By "guaranteed", I assume you mean guaranteed within the context of how today's code works. That's good, but this seems like something I would need to keep a close eye on should the architecture change at some point in the future. (Yes, I know - there are numerous other portions of the kernel to which this same statement would apply! :^} ) > mike Thanks for checking into this stuff, Fred templin@erg.sri.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 10:31:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03651 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:31:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03646; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:31:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@Glue.umd.edu) Received: from stochastic.eng.umd.edu (crb@stochastic.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.139]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26469; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (crb@localhost) by stochastic.eng.umd.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02933; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:30:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: stochastic.eng.umd.edu: crb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:30:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher R. Bowman" X-Sender: crb@stochastic.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710141240.FAA01458@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Remember, for the most part we're talking about security specs brought to > > you by the same government that would limit cryptography to key escrow > > techniques. > > The FBI web page has a link explaining their position: legally obtained > wire taps. Yes but this is the wrong analogy, the FBI claims that because they would have had an undisputed right to wire tap under current law, we individuals should take actions to insure that they can do something (namely break a code) they otherwise would be unable to physically do A closer analogy would be as follows: we citizens should keep a recording of all conversations we make in public since the FBI would have a right to have audio tape recoders for every square inch of the USA but they physically can't do, even thought we would have no expectation of privacy for conversation held out doors on a private street.` > I can't help thinking that, even though this doesn't violate search > and seizure (since wire taps a re performed with due process of law, > needing a court order), it probably violates compelling one to > testify against oneself. The proper question isn't weather we have due process, at it's base due process only means you get notice, a hearing and treated like everyone else, meaning that it's ok to screw poeple as long as we let you argue your side, and we screw everybody. The real problem is that it violates article four of the bill of rights. To force everyone to leave their front door open because a few people might be storing contraband is unreasonable and thus these actions violate our 4 amendment rights. Sadly our Supreme Court hasn't quite seen it this way (see for example court decisions up holding sobriety check points) and we the people have refused to help them see the light. > Unless you can get wire taps thrown out altogether, then strong > cryptography is potentiatially an act of obstruction of justice, > and the FBI has a point of law in their favor. If the keys to your transmissions are stored only in your head (or better yet discarded after the transmission) it is not obstruction of justice, on the one hand you can't be compelled to disclose any information you don't have, and on the other you can't be compelled to give any information that might incriminate you (unless you decide to testify or are granted imunity for any crime that you may divulge information about) It is only an obstruction of justice if the information you are forced to disclose is not incriminating or leads to incriminating information. > Personally, I think all wire taps should be illegal on the basis > of them being an act of compelling someone to testify against > themselves. But until someone tests this (probably a real criminal, > unfortunately) and gets the evidence thrown out as unconstitutionally > obtained, then existing case law favors Key Escrow. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > --------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@Glue.umd.edu My home page From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 12:12:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11066 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:12:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11044; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:12:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA09724; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:11:41 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:11:41 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > > Could it be done by: > > 1) Porting the "Lites" single server (http://www.cs.hut.fi/lites.html) to PowerPC > > 2) Running it under Mach (which is already used by MkLinux) > So run it slow under emulation when native-mode linux is available? > what's the point? If it won't run as the kernel I can't see any > reason to do this. As I remember, Mach (for any "foreign" platform) came up sometime last year and it was definately decided to not go taht way, or has my memory gone fuzzy? > > What would be a good name for this project? > > MkFreeBSD, FreeBSD/PPC, FreeBSD/MK? > Hmmm, we have netbsd/ppc, linux/ppc, and I assume openbsd/ppp. What > does freebsd add? esp. when the last power-pc-based computers have FreeBSD on PPC would have the same benefits as FreeBSD on Intel? > been designed? ( the next generation of ppc will be in your car's engine, PPC computers? Well, starmax 6000 was designed sometime this summer (yes, it did not make it to selling), PIOS is designing and will continue to do so, then there are certainly PowerMacs (by Apple, and I do expect Apple to continue to build PPC based computers, and cloners still alive), IBM and last but not least Motorola - out of Mac clone buisness, it still does make *computers* with PPC chips (running AIX for example), embedded motherboards (could you have 64bit PCI for your penium?) and VME boards, and most probably will continue. Besides, PPC is likely to be the next 68K - everywhere and in everywhere's closet. Not too bad platform to be available for. > not on your desk. Thank You Know Who for that one). You're not losing much > by optimizing for the pentium. At the rate we're going, it's the only > architecture out there (anyone see that the Alpha is probably dead?) > Heh. IA-64 port anyone? > > ron > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 13:23:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14553 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:23:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14548 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mdean@shellx.best.com) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.7/8.8.BEST) with ESMTP id NAA19185 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mdean@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.8.6/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA14924 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:20:54 -0700 (PDT) From: mdean To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Seeking suggestions on how read/write buffering should be handled for maximum generality. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a digital I/O board, and I am in the middle of writing a driver for it. I have a device node for each 8 bit i/o port and the direction (whether output or input) is set by the O_ flags during open. The writes are not buffered a simple outb() is excuted to set the lines. Similarily an inb() will read the lines on a port, however it has a feature called change of state where you get an interrupt any time an input changes. I let the user enable or disable this for each of the six ports on the board through and ioctl() but it is disabled by default. How should I handle writes: If the user sends me a write with say 50 bytes, should I go ahead and just spew it all out (through 50 outb()), for myself I would never send more than 1 byte at a time, but there is not way to throttle output through the 8255 hardware in mode 0 (the only mode this board operates in). Read routine handling is a bit more complicated, insofar: If a user asks for one byte on a polled input port I give them whatever inb() reads right then, If they ask for 50 should I just read it 50 times into my driver buffer (1024 bytes) and then uiomove it to them, even though for most apps I can think of all the bytes will always be the same. What about for input ports set to interrupt input, when an interrupt is received do an inb() and if the input has changed from last time it was read put it in the buffer? This makes kind of sense. When the user goes to read an interrupt driven port should I block if there is nothing there, or give them what inb() reads at that time. If so, then why should I even have a buffer? If there is something there should I give them the buffer + 1 byte of what inb() reads right then? These questions are not a matter of how to implement this all, but I just want to get an idead of what someone other than me might want to use the board for and what facillites they would want to have the driver implement. I have also tried to think of ways to implement timed I/O, like a way to throttle the writes using the system clock. Unfortunately everything I've thought of would end up being in some way inflexible, It would be much better to do such things from userspace. One of my applications would be to set a bit on a port to low wait 37ms and set it high, not a big problem if implemented as a feature of the driver, but it makes it non-general. I really think that usleep() should be reimplemented to actually sleep something measurably close to the times it claims 40ms != 37ms when you talking about something controlled that puts out quite amount of heat. If you end up turning it on for 40ms when you only need 37ms in my case it will eventually melt, wheras with 37ms it approach steady state heat transfer where the controlled device is not having a meltdown. Were not talking about doing something a lot of times per second, just that it is timed accurately. Can i help this by aquiring a 1000hz timer in my driver and using it to wakeup a rtprioed process sleeping on select(). I know for instance that I can easily (I have done this) as part of the driver code where I acuired timer0 at 10000hz without a noticeable increase in interrupt %cpu. The whole problem with acquire_timer0() is that I am pretty sure only one driver can hold onto the timer at a particular frequency at one time, so If you need more than one to do things like this (which is messy anyway and should be done in userspace, you're pretty much screwed). Any suggestions? I am not on the hackers mailing list --- please cc to me From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 13:56:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA16683 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:56:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16671 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:56:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13285; Tue, 14 Oct 97 16:55:56 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA29339; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:51:43 -0400 Message-Id: <19971014165143.34402@ct.picker.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:51:43 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: julian@whistle.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: LKM & Large contig malloc failure (Re: lkms versus hard linked drivers) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer: |mdean wrote: |> My question is very simple: What can't be a lkm? | |the only function that MUST be done at bootup is allocation of LARGE |physically contiguous buffers of ram. because after running a few |seconds ram get's fragmented.. large VIRTUALLY contiguous buffers are |ok. That explains it. I just spent some time LKMizing the Brooktree (bktr) PCI capture driver to speed up development, only to find last night that vm_page_alloc_contig would just hang, whittling away swap and consuming 50% CPU with no end in sight. The driver is one of the few that does large contiguous mallocs (first a 32K bite; then a 3.5Meg gulp). Searching the list archives for tips, I happened upon your post. What's the best way around this? Have a dummy "grab the memory" stub driver that runs on bootup, and then have the real driver in the LKM "borrow" this memory chunk away when it loads. Not real clean, so this would of course just be a "for-development-only" hack. Would sure be nice to make the driver generally available as an LKM though. Can anyone see a cleaner way around this problem? Thanks, Randall Hopper From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 14:20:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17878 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:20:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17854 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:20:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id OAA04153; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:18:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199710142118.OAA04153@grayling.erg.sri.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:18:38 -0700 From: "Fred L. Templin" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, mike@smith.net.au Cc: templin@erg.sri.com Subject: Re: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You could map a larger window; that'd certainly be better. TBH I > > haven't checked to see if there is a limitation that would prevent you > > from having a 96kB window for your card. > > This would be nice, but I'm somewhat skeptical it will be possible. I'll > certainly check into it with an optimistic viewpoint, however. Unfortunately, the above does not seem to be an option. From the file 'sys/pccard/i82365.h': > /* > * The memory window registers contain the start and end > * physical host address that the PCIC maps to the card, > * and an offset calculated from the card memory address. > * All values are shifted down 12 bits, so allocation is > * done in 4Kb blocks. Only 12 bits of each value is > * stored, limiting the range to the ISA address size of > * 24 bits. The upper 4 bits of the most significant byte > * within the values are used for various flags. > * > * The layout is: > * > * base+0 : lower 8 bits of system memory start address > * base+1 : upper 4 bits of system memory start address + flags > * base+2 : lower 8 bits of system memory end address > * base+3 : upper 4 bits of system memory end address + flags > * base+4 : lower 8 bits of offset to card address > * base+5 : upper 4 bits of offset to card address + flags > * > * The following two bytes are reserved for other use. > */ So, it looks like the 4KB per-window limit is an artifact of the controller chip's register organization. Again, please someone let me know if I'm missing something... Fred templin@erg.sri.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 14:26:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18252 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kerouac.hepcat.org (cosmos@kerouac.hepcat.org [207.155.93.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18247 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:26:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cosmos@kerouac.hepcat.org) Received: (from cosmos@localhost) by kerouac.hepcat.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07218 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:34:06 GMT Message-Id: <199710141434.OAA07218@kerouac.hepcat.org> Subject: PAO for 2.2.5? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:34:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel Leeds Reply-to: dleeds@dfacades.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi i see 2.2.5-RELEASE will be due out in a few days, will there be an updated PAO pcmcia package for it? or will the 2.2.2. PAO work? also is this the last 2.x.x release? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 15:19:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA21677 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21667 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA03324; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:25:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710142225.AAA03324@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: LKM & Large contig malloc failure (Re: lkms versus hard linked drivers) In-Reply-To: <19971014165143.34402@ct.picker.com> from Randall Hopper at "Oct 14, 97 04:51:43 pm" To: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:25:22 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Randall Hopper: > Julian Elischer: > |mdean wrote: > |> My question is very simple: What can't be a lkm? > | > |the only function that MUST be done at bootup is allocation of LARGE > |physically contiguous buffers of ram. because after running a few > |seconds ram get's fragmented.. large VIRTUALLY contiguous buffers are > |ok. > > That explains it. I just spent some time LKMizing the Brooktree (bktr) PCI > capture driver to speed up development, only to find last night that > vm_page_alloc_contig would just hang, whittling away swap and consuming 50% > CPU with no end in sight. > > The driver is one of the few that does large contiguous mallocs (first a > 32K bite; then a 3.5Meg gulp). > > Searching the list archives for tips, I happened upon your post. > > What's the best way around this? Have a dummy "grab the memory" stub driver > that runs on bootup, and then have the real driver in the LKM "borrow" this > memory chunk away when it loads. Not real clean, so this would of course > just be a "for-development-only" hack. > > Would sure be nice to make the driver generally available as an LKM though. > Can anyone see a cleaner way around this problem? Umm... fix vm_page.c:contigmalloc() so it can, when needed, compact the memory, and maybe force stuff out of the swap, etc, so that the request can always be fulfilled if there is enough non-wired memory in the machine? That's the best solution, isn't it? Many people have wanted it, but no one has done it. Is that because it's impossible with the current VM (and would therefor require major rewrites of the VM system, which is non trivial), or is it because it's a lot of work, but even so, not rocket sience? Dunno. Dyson should know, as should a few more people, I guess. If it's just lots of work, and not rocket sience, maybe you could give it a shot? I'm sure it would be appreciented. Could someone with Real Knowledge (tm) or this let us know if it's possible, and maybe estimate quickly what would have to be done and how much work it is? If it's possible to do without any real hanges in the VM system, etc, this seems like fine project for someone; not desperately needed, but very practical. I might be able to look at it myself after exams, since I basically have to update my workstation to -current soon anyway for the pnp, etc. But then again... I'm just bored enough to answer this without any real knowledge in the subject, adding more mails to everyones mailbox.... :-) /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 15:35:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22883 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cleopatra.ultra.net (cleopatra.ultra.net [199.232.56.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22807 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from moncrg@ma.ultranet.com) Received: from moncrg (d1.dial-20.mbo.ma.ultra.net [146.115.101.1]) by cleopatra.ultra.net (8.8.5/ult1.05) with SMTP id SAA09830 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:35:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gregory D Moncreaff" To: Subject: [Q] Is recvmsg for ancillary (control) data part of protocol or generic sockets? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:36:34 -0400 Message-ID: <01bcd8f1$a05d0560$01657392@moncrg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BCD8D0.194B6560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BCD8D0.194B6560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit was looking at design and implementation 4.4 and there was a PRU_RECV, PRU_RECVOOB but no PRU_RECVCTL. just wondering how the control data gets from the protocol to the user.... -g ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BCD8D0.194B6560 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Gregory Donald Moncreaff.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Gregory Donald Moncreaff.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD N:Moncreaff;Gregory;Donald FN:Gregory Donald Moncreaff EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:moncrg@ma.ultranet.com END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BCD8D0.194B6560-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 16:49:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26985 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:49:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26979 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01650; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710142349.QAA01650@rah.star-gate.com> To: Randall Hopper cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LKM & Large contig malloc failure (Re: lkms versus hard linked drivers) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:51:43 EDT." <19971014165143.34402@ct.picker.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:49:23 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Your approach is probably the quickest way of solving the problem. Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Randall Hopper : > Julian Elischer: > |mdean wrote: > |> My question is very simple: What can't be a lkm? > | > |the only function that MUST be done at bootup is allocation of LARGE > |physically contiguous buffers of ram. because after running a few > |seconds ram get's fragmented.. large VIRTUALLY contiguous buffers are > |ok. > > That explains it. I just spent some time LKMizing the Brooktree (bktr) PCI > capture driver to speed up development, only to find last night that > vm_page_alloc_contig would just hang, whittling away swap and consuming 50% > CPU with no end in sight. > > The driver is one of the few that does large contiguous mallocs (first a > 32K bite; then a 3.5Meg gulp). > > Searching the list archives for tips, I happened upon your post. > > What's the best way around this? Have a dummy "grab the memory" stub driver > that runs on bootup, and then have the real driver in the LKM "borrow" this > memory chunk away when it loads. Not real clean, so this would of course > just be a "for-development-only" hack. > > Would sure be nice to make the driver generally available as an LKM though. > Can anyone see a cleaner way around this problem? > > Thanks, > > Randall Hopper > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 17:23:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29379 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:23:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29368 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:23:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA08004; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:22:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: "Greg...-*smile*-" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xwindows compiler In-Reply-To: <9710131859.AA10798@oz.plymouth.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Greg...-*smile*- wrote: > hello all! > > > i am new to this mailing list and...i was hoping some one could help me > ..i am looking for some type of xwindows compiler.....one that i can compiler c/c++ > code on..any help would be a great help! Greg, you've asked a confusing question. If I asked you for a recommendation for a 32 bit loaf of bread, you'd be confused a little, right? X Windows is a nice GUI windowing environment, not a language. Do you mean you want a compiler, or maybe some kind of program that eases the job of creating user interfaces under X, or what? I would like to answer you, if I could only figure out what your question was. Did you mean a C compiler that could be used, among other things, to create X applications, maybe? > thanks > Greg > greg@oz.plymouth.edu > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 17:27:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29581 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:27:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29566 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:26:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00500; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:53:51 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710150023.JAA00500@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Fred L. Templin" cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:58:58 MST." <199710141659.JAA03886@grayling.erg.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:53:49 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You could map a larger window; that'd certainly be better. TBH I > > haven't checked to see if there is a limitation that would prevent you > > from having a 96kB window for your card. > > This would be nice, but I'm somewhat skeptical it will be possible. I'll > certainly check into it with an optimistic viewpoint, however. If the PCIC will let you map the larger region, and there's somwhere you can put it, you win. Failing that, we will need to provide a mechanism for a driver to manipulate its mapping. > > So you are guaranteed notification (at splhigh()) of card removal > > before your mapping is revoked. > > By "guaranteed", I assume you mean guaranteed within the context of how > today's code works. That's good, but this seems like something I would > need to keep a close eye on should the architecture change at some point > in the future. (Yes, I know - there are numerous other portions of the > kernel to which this same statement would apply! :^} ) Basically, if you lock out interrupts during your transactions with the card, you should be fine; the mapping is unlikely to ever be revoked except under interrupt. eg. s = splhigh(); if (sc->mapping_base == NULL) { splx(s); return(ECARDREMOVED); } ... do stuff to card ... splx(s); Whilst the card may be removed in the 'do stuff' region, your mapping will not be invalidated, and you won't be able to kill the kernel. > Thanks for checking into this stuff, No sweat; you could say it's my job. 8) mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 18:02:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01628 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:02:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01614; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:02:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06200; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:46:51 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710142346.AAA06200@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Charles Mott cc: Eric Feillant , ari@suutari.iki.fi, brian@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Natd In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:24:44 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:46:50 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [cross-posted to -hackers so that others (including *@whistle.com) can (dis)agree] Charles Mott wrote in reply to Eric Feillant: > For load balancing, a single natd process would have to exist and all > traffic from multiple interfaces would have to be diverted to this single > process. I don't know if this is possible, and what modifications to natd > might be required. > The way I'd see this sort of thing working is with one or more "auxiliary" interfaces. Say we have two physical links to the Internet called 10.0.1.1 and 10.0.2.1: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire 10.0.1.1/32 0:0:c0:b5:ca:ae UCLW 0 0 lo0 10.0.2.1/32 0:0:c0:52:2:6e UHLW 0 0 lo0 We then create a default: default 10.0.1.1 UGSc 4 22 ed0 The 10.0.2.1 interface is our "auxiliary" in that nothing really ever goes to it directly. We then create a "multiplex daemon" that picks up traffic going out on 10.0.1.1 and sends it via either 10.0.1.1 or 10.0.2.1 depending on some balancing factor (you may want to weight the interfaces). No address translation is necessary as all outgoing packets from the local machine will have an IP of 10.0.1.1 irrespective of the interface they're actually transmitted on. The only thing we need to make sure of is that we've got the same setup on the other end. Without it, we get all our replies down the 10.0.1.1 route ('cos the other side will think this is a good idea (but then, we could dynamically load-balance to compensate for this)). The only "missing piece" is that we can't "divert" the packet onto the correct interface because the divert mechanism does not allow you to choose where you're sending the data.... there's no way of writing raw IP onto a specific interface - the kernel will pick the interface and will find 10.0.1.1 because of the default route. Hmmm, I suspect this capability - if it is ever added - would have to be done in the kernel. -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 18:54:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04646 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04615 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07608; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:21:24 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710150121.CAA07608@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: stesin@gu.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New PPP? (Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:54:43 +0300." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:21:24 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > BTW: how about the most modern PPP stuff (by Brian Somers) > present in -current? will it be the part of 2.2.5? > > Best regards, > Andrew Stesin The only things not in RELENG_2_2 are: 1. An MTU negotiation thing that makes ppp NAK the peers MRU if you've "set mtu" in your config file. This is somewhat cosmetic - I may merge it. 2. The LCP layers are not shut down correctly. This is apparant if you run ppp -background. When ppp times out, it exits without ever actually sending the TerminateReq to the other side. I'm currently looking at bringing this into 2.2, pending a reply from tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance) confirming that his somewhat obscure case is now behaving correctly. This has been tested fairly extensively in -current over the past couple of weeks by me (and hopefully some of the other committers - I followed up the commit with a plea for testing - no news is good news). > nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE > > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 19:08:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA05516 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:08:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA05498; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:08:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199710150208.TAA05498@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: F1.17 (was Re: C2 Trusted FreeBSD?) To: jbryant@tfs.net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710141326.IAA03239@argus.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Oct 14, 97 08:26:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, Oct 14, 1997 at 05:27:29PM +0930, Mike Smith wrote: > > >> Now the B2, on the other hand - that may indeed be a bomber who's > > >> primary mission no longer justifies its cost. Better to do today's > > >> job with smaller, less expensive units. > > > > > > The notion that you need a pilot at the controls at all is the > > > obsolescent concept. With todays state-of-the-art in semi- and > > > fully-autonomous RPVs, piloted military aircraft are close to becoming > > > dinosaurs. tomorrow night is a full moon. you all are a day early. ;) jmb From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 19:50:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07900 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:50:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from srv.net (snake.srv.net [199.104.81.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07894 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:50:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (dialin2.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.254.102]) by srv.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA32430 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:49:53 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NetBIOS across a masquerading gateway Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know if this is quite a -hackers question, but I wanted to access the expertise in this group. I have received an inquiry about whether it is possible for NetBIOS over TCP/IP to work through a masquerading gateway (e.g. natd or ppp -alias). Normally, when confronted with setting up Windows for Workgroups, I hold my nose shut and execute whatever mouse clicks and keystrokes seem to get things working, but without understanding or remembering the slightest bit about Microsoft networking. So I have a few questions: (1) Can Windows networking work over an IP based wide area network? (2) If so, can such networking work across the existing FreeBSD masquerading mechanism in natd and ppp -alias? (3) If many-to-one IP masquerading is not presently compatible with Microsoft networking, is it at least conceptually possible? Or is it somehow logically impossible? -- Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 20:17:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09544 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:17:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09529 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:17:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA12842; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:17:06 -0700 (PDT) To: dleeds@dfacades.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAO for 2.2.5? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:34:05 -0000." <199710141434.OAA07218@kerouac.hepcat.org> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:17:05 -0700 Message-ID: <12838.876885425@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > hi i see 2.2.5-RELEASE will be due out in a few days, will there be > an updated PAO pcmcia package for it? or will the 2.2.2. PAO work? I don't know - that's up to Tatsumi-san and the Nomads. :) > also is this the last 2.x.x release? No, there will be at least one more release from this branch. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 20:37:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA10882 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:37:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10872 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01216; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:04:04 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710150334.NAA01216@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Charles Mott cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBIOS across a masquerading gateway In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:49:53 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:04:04 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't know if this is quite a -hackers question, but I wanted to access > the expertise in this group. I have received an inquiry about whether it > is possible for NetBIOS over TCP/IP to work through a masquerading gateway > (e.g. natd or ppp -alias). Eeep. It should. > Normally, when confronted with setting up Windows for Workgroups, I hold > my nose shut and execute whatever mouse clicks and keystrokes seem to get > things working, but without understanding or remembering the slightest bit > about Microsoft networking. Wise move. 8) > So I have a few questions: > > (1) Can Windows networking work over an > IP based wide area network? Yes. There are some restrictions relating to browsability and the vagaries of the browse mechanism, but if you are using the DNS for WinNS you can map by name. (Irrelevant anecdote: We are looking at providing shares off a BSD system and associated network in one country location to another several hundred kilometres away, using mpd and some faith; testing looks like it'll work just fine.) > (2) If so, can such networking work across > the existing FreeBSD masquerading mechanism > in natd and ppp -alias? I believe so. The smbclient program manages to access such servers from an arbitrarily-allocated port on the host system, and I don't see any way that host/port information could be encoded in the NB-on-TCP datagram. I would expect that it should "just work". mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 14 21:19:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13413 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:19:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13364 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:19:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.7/3.6Wbeta6-ntc_mailserver1.03) id NAA16809; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:18:15 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:18:15 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199710150418.NAA16809@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: dleeds@dfacades.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: PAO for 2.2.5? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:17:05 -0700". <12838.876885425@time.cdrom.com> From: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <12838.876885425@time.cdrom.com> jkh@time.cdrom.com writes: >> > hi i see 2.2.5-RELEASE will be due out in a few days, will there be >> > an updated PAO pcmcia package for it? or will the 2.2.2. PAO work? >> >> I don't know - that's up to Tatsumi-san and the Nomads. :) I've not merged it into 2.2.5 yet. I'll work on it this weekend. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi Network Technology Center Keio University hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 00:10:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA24298 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:10:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24230; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:10:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z13) with ESMTP id JAA00822; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:10:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id JAA10735; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:19:37 +0200 (MEST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:19:37 +0200 (MEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199710150719.JAA10735@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: some observations with xmaple (Maple V4 R5, Linux version) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When running xmaple (Maple V4 R5, the Linux version - there ain't a FreeBSD one), to things seem strange : When I set the DISPLAY variable to a remote host the program just seg faults (segmentation violation) and dies. It shouldn't IMO. (it's a 2.2.2 installation) Running the non GUI version (maple) it comes up fine but (since I didn't know how to quit) when I send it the Quit signal (^\) it comes with LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=0, typ=0x54(T), num=0x12 not implemented and finally core dumps and quits through the FreeBSD signal mechanism. -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 00:50:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26536 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:50:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (wired.ctech.ac.za [155.238.4.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26503; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:49:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wired.ctech.ac.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13277; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:45:25 +0200 (SAT) Message-ID: <34447495.3F54BC7E@wired.ctech.ac.za> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:45:25 +0200 From: Jacques Hugo X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: md5 vs DES on new 2.2.2 install Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ... I guess the subject says is all. What are the pros and cons of installing a new 2.2.2 fbsd system when looking at installing DES of MD5 as your encryption? What do you guys suggest? Thanks -Jacques ------------------------------------------------------ The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" ... so I got BSD System Administrator | Jacques Hugo UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 ------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 00:51:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26705 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from thorin.hway.ru (root@thorin.hway.ru [194.87.58.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26699 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from flash@intech.hway.ru) Received: from flash.intech.hway.ru (flash.intech.hway.ru [192.168.1.16]) by thorin.hway.ru (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA10287 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:45:40 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199710150745.LAA10287@thorin.hway.ru> From: "Alexander V. Tischenko" To: Subject: Re: 21140 version E Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:44:59 +0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Jordan K. Hubbard > Have you tried this with 2.2-stable or 3.0-current? I believe they > should work now, but you'll need to upgrade if you're not running with > the de driver from either of those two branches. > > Jordan The problem in our case was resolved with upgrade to 3.0-970807-SNAP. Alexander. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 00:54:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27031 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:54:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27023 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02149 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:21:47 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710150751.RAA02149@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Call for Fortran assistance. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:21:46 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, if the 'F' word upsets you, you can ignore this thread with impunity. If you know something about fortran, a few brief words would be quite helpful. We're currently engaged in a joint venture with a customer to produce an all-sky meteor radar. Not what you'd call an earth-shaking device, but likely to be fairly unique and interesting to the relevant community. Unfortunately, the customer is providing some of the software for the system, and their language of preference is Fortran. We've seen their code before, and it's disgusting. Unfortunately, they have the algorithmic technology that we need, and they're not willing to document it well enough for us to reimplement in another language. (They have also stalled us up against a deadline, so we really don't have the time either.) In order for their software to interoperate with ours, we need to be able to pipe binary data from one of our processes to one of theirs, at a fairly convincing rate (about 1.5M/sec) on a Pentium-class processor. After I/O overheads we have about 1/2 of the processor left. Our initial design assumed that they would be able to read this on standard input; wrong. Our second design threw the data through a FIFO, but Fortran has funny formatting requirements for sequential-access data that have stymied us. We tried converting to ASCII and then parsing it back in, but that's too slow. We've offered to write a Fortran-callable C procedure that can manage reading the FIFO, but they don't use procedures much (!) and want an all-fortran solution. If you have ever done anything like this before, I'd *really* like to know how you did it, before we bludgeon the customer and commit to a total rewrite... Thanks, Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 00:55:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27060 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:55:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (wired.ctech.ac.za [155.238.4.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27043; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wired.ctech.ac.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13531; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:55:17 +0200 (SAT) Message-ID: <344476E5.31DFF4F5@wired.ctech.ac.za> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:55:17 +0200 From: Jacques Hugo X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: damn, damn, damn ... getting confused here. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ... hope you can help. What is the difference between a device like /dev/vn0 and /dev/vn0c ?? What does the 'c' mean? Thanks. -Jacques From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 00:55:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27111 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:55:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27100 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:55:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z13) with ESMTP id JAA01972 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:55:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA10945 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:04:47 +0200 (MEST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:04:47 +0200 (MEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199710150804.KAA10945@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: yp across a gateway? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I seem to a problem with yp/NIS clients that should reach a yp/NIS server across a gateway. I'm not sure if this ought to work or doesn't work out of principle in FreeBSD (2.2.2). -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 01:01:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA27585 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:01:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA27578 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:01:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA15109 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Prev-Resent: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:01:02 -0700 Prev-Resent: "hackers@freebsd.org " Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA14914 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ost-server.FOX-Vakanties (fox.nl [194.109.15.127]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id JAA13178 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:42:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by ost-server.FOX-Vakanties with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BCD94C.B16B9190@ost-server.FOX-Vakanties>; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:28:27 +0200 Message-ID: From: Wouter de Boer To: "'FreeBSD misc'" Cc: "'Berend'" , "'Jordan K. Hubbard'" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:28:26 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-To: hackers@freebsd.org Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:01:03 -0700 Resent-Message-ID: <15106.876902463@time.cdrom.com> Resent-From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To All, For all FreeBSD users, I have developed a easy program to setup and adminster your FreeBSD workstation. With this program you can easy: - change your printer properties - add users and groups to your system - and a lot more !! However this program is currently developed for the FreeBSD platform until version 2.2.1. I hope to change the program to support version 2.2.2 as soon as possible Visit my homepage at: http://www.pobox.com/~wouter.de.boer Have you any questions, comment, errors, mail this to me: wouter.de.boer@pobox.com Groeten, Wouter Tomorrow is promised to no one !! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 01:25:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA28761 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:25:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from nessie.ethz.ch (dapor@nessie.ethz.ch [129.132.71.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA28756 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dapor@nessie.inf.ethz.ch) Received: (from dapor@localhost) by nessie.ethz.ch (8.6.10/8.6.12) id KAA29036 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:23:44 +0200 From: Carlo Dapor Message-Id: <199710150823.KAA29036@nessie.ethz.ch> Subject: 86open and implication on FreeBSD To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:23:44 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Hackers I read the 86open 'vision'. To me it sounds nice, having to generate simply one binary for many x86 plat- forms. I have two questions: one thing is that this UBF (universal binary format) would require all the platforms to ELFish ? If this is correct, what is the status on FreeBSD ? I know FreeBSD is able to run both a.out and (Linux)-ELF bianries. The guy in charge of ELFizing FreeBSD is John D. Polstra, correct ? However, FreeBSD is still a.out, for several good reasons. The second thing that comes to my mind is, how are the differences addressed as far as devices are concerned ? I mean, what if I were to write a nice archiving utility, it would fully conform to UBF (a term I made up, btw), but I would still have to know, which partition I'd archive (/dev/sd0s1a or /dev/sda1 - not so sure here about Linux' corresponding name). Will there be some kind of flavours ? Or even better, a mechanism that maps device names, so that You wouldn't have to bother anymore ? Hope somebody can shed a light. Thanks a lot, guys ! Ciao, derweil, -- Carlo -- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3ia Comment: requires PGP version 2.6 or later mQENAzQOnboAAAEIALnpSTc5y2g21CIX5V9bMqxsixXpQZDyR3hGosGsPC8S0WXP xfJiXAw/Zq3sPZhmiGZWq8/QP/d69tm4ert6rGB5Vuue96beKei4iemBF1ZpTU9G 3/tLsL63GHTLDAf+jqNcp1xM5ORF+qkFqP1ForzED06ba7HPQomzD0uhPbczHr9p vLAsczg1Wm9op06m7VTgK/hEvOJZPdxu0i2mFC2KVmRJr/KLcjs4CyEt6S8cJk8F Q3vDOOvwa+j/AHkvejBYokNYbfA+5D6bbYmNl5GxsKmY/qxamEaPWy7lZ87v8J0E CwnfzxiFPlguHCAux3u388EWqGWyAqOeROtKqL0ABRG0JkNhcmxvIERhcG9yIDxk YXBvckBuZXNzaWUuaW5mLmV0aHouY2g+iQEVAwUQNA6dugKjnkTrSqi9AQH3kAf/ T7dFJl6YQbUKSwTxNX/rERk2W010j2fH1bkbgOOfEfvQ6LiIRJYmJQCgeehP8kEU V66vSPboGsjl+8wU5CdlmoPsf7xw94Dh+uI48/CKLFAu+Rq2lonQOuzSvEDGg1P0 pU4UyCdj5i+y89jS+wBNA/yG6wsEGWMVltWqB2UKSg1n3YbA8JqaO2x9JLtIzfoB J/jhl5Jl4kX8OJzX1XVlJTxYdu9PTwaTZP68EG6NNfEyCn5Fp6iSDtUrLms1pI5i 3U282bIhBgVXr19hVS2olqTUHGdgcRqFjcnrARIBKoB9stuKj1+ORqlDiLwJfvg5 6JNSM4HFutk/iftKBqYXhQ== =XYxp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 02:00:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00829 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:00:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00767 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA17982; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:04:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:04:45 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Carlo Dapor cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 86open and implication on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199710150823.KAA29036@nessie.ethz.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk it would be wonderful to have standard device names across all types of unices, however, what is the point? you will still have to type in which scsi drive you want to access, so what does the device name have to do with it? you are trying to apply an unnessesary abstraction to the system, remeber a file is a file is a file... :) -Alfred > I read the 86open 'vision'. > To me it sounds nice, having to generate simply one binary for many x86 plat- > forms. > The second thing that comes to my mind is, how are the differences addressed as > far as devices are concerned ? I mean, what if I were to write a nice archiving > utility, it would fully conform to UBF (a term I made up, btw), but I would > still have to know, which partition I'd archive (/dev/sd0s1a or /dev/sda1 - > not so sure here about Linux' corresponding name). > Will there be some kind of flavours ? > Or even better, a mechanism that maps device names, so that You wouldn't have > to bother anymore ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 02:38:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA05808 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:38:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trifork.gu.net (trifork.gu.net [194.93.190.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA05797 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.gu.kiev.ua [127.0.0.1]) by trifork.gu.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA01390; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:37:26 +0300 (EEST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:37:25 +0300 (EEST) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for Fortran assistance. In-Reply-To: <199710150751.RAA02149@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > Our second design threw the data through a FIFO, but Fortran has funny > formatting requirements for sequential-access data that have stymied us. What was so strange there with the formatting? > We tried converting to ASCII and then parsing it back in, but that's > too slow. As far as I recall, Fortran is able to handle "binary" input records (in a way like one do read(2)/write(2) of a memory buffer containig a C struct foo { ... }; or some kind of an array) without a formatting and conversion overhead. But that was some 10-12 years ago I was doing this daily, so my memory may serve me wrong (?) Anyway you will be able to fill a Fortran array with bytes from an input stream without any conversion and use the buffer' content in any way you like then, using Fortran' equivalent of C union xxx { ... }; that is a COMMON construct. > We've offered to write a Fortran-callable C procedure that can manage > reading the FIFO, but they don't use procedures much (!) and want an > all-fortran solution. Oh damn... Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 02:45:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07137 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:45:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07104 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:45:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@korin.warman.org.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA09279 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:47:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:47:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: O_APPEND and flock() Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I wonder if I have to flock() the file for concurrent access, when every process opens it for writing with O_APPEND. The man page for open(2) says that before each write() operation the position is set to the end of file. The question is, is the write() call atomic? I.e., I want to avoid the situation, when parts of each write() call would be interleaved with each other. Reading man pages and BSD docs didn't make it clear for me. Thanks for help. Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 03:21:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13761 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 03:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13731 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 03:21:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id LAA07157; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:11:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:14:15 +0100 Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:14:15 +0100 X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199710150751.RAA02149@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Mike Smith From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Call for Fortran assistance. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 7:51 am -0000 15/10/97, Mike Smith wrote: >[...] >If you have ever done anything like this before, I'd *really* like to >know how you did it, before we bludgeon the customer and commit to a >total rewrite... Been there, done that. We got heavy with the customer, threatened them with common sense and fortunately got them to commit to a rewrite. Downside was some *very* unpleasant archaeology in their existing code to find out WTF was going on in there, surprised them in several instances. Oh, and we looked hard at f2c too, but that kind of code comes out looking even worse than when it goes in. [out-of-order] >Our initial design assumed that they would be able to read this on >standard input; wrong. :-) >Our second design threw the data through a FIFO, but Fortran has funny >formatting requirements for sequential-access data that have stymied us. If you really must run with the FORTRAN code, you have to crack this one. Is the formatting really impenetrable, or does the FORTRAN RTS get confused by the FIFO? We looked at using a portal, pretend to be a real file. >We tried converting to ASCII and then parsing it back in, but that's >too slow. Same here. FWIW, having got the customer to DTRT (this was a couple of years ago), we've just been invited back to do the next generation of that system. I wish you luck! -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 03:40:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18158 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 03:40:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from tapti.hss.hns.com (tapti.hss.hns.com [139.85.242.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA17974 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 03:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kchowksey@hss.hns.com) Received: from tarang.hss.hns.com (tarang.hss.hns.com [139.85.242.33]) by tapti.hss.hns.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27035; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:56:54 +0500 (IST) Received: (from kchowksey@localhost) by tarang.hss.hns.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) id QAA21914; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:06:27 -0500 (GMT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:06:27 -0500 (GMT) Message-Id: <199710152106.QAA21914@tarang.hss.hns.com> From: Kapil Chowksey To: abial@korin.warman.org.pl CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Andrzej Bialecki on Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:47:25 +0200 (CEST)) Subject: Re: O_APPEND and flock() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 05:06:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04472 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:06:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04244 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:05:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00264 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:32:07 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710151202.VAA00264@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Odd out-of-swap condition; ideas? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:32:03 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ** Firstly, please note that this is on a 2.2 of around February vintage; ** if this is known-and-fixed, say no more than that and we will proceed ** to negotiating an upgrade. We have a system in the field that is showing an odd out-of-swap condition. What's most odd is that it appears to involve a leak of some sort, where swap remains attached to a process even though the process doesn't appear to require it. Some background for the following: - The 'idl' processes are running under the Linux ABI emulation. These suckers do *lots* of filesystem work; the 'temp' allocation class gets at least twice as much work as any other in the system. - The 'exptd' process hits the hardware directly (it has IOPL set). - Both of the above are started using 'su' out of system startup scripts, so they inherit either the daemon or default resource limits, in this case they should be limited to 64M max size. - All of the 'ps' output is from 'ps alxmwww', trimmed to keep the most interesting fields and processes. Here is some relevant data shortly after startup: Tue Oct 14 06:32:01 GMT 1997 Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/sd0s1b 131072 5228 125780 4% Interleaved PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND -6 0 4884 916 biowai D con- 26:10.80 .../bin.linux/idl analysis_init 69 0 4476 2196 - R ?? 0:00.72 .../bin.linux/idl display_init 2 0 3684 3476 select Ss ?? 0:47.29 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -auth ... 18 0 2592 996 pause S ?? 4:50.06 exptd: experiment ... All looks pretty happy. After a little while the display gets some more work done, and grows a bit: Tue Oct 14 19:38:46 GMT 1997 Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/sd0s1b 131072 64096 66912 49% Interleaved PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND -6 0 30560 4152 biowai D ?? 54:18.29 .../bin.linux/idl display_init 10 0 4884 1212 wait S con- 205:33.58 .../bin.linux/idl analysis_init 2 0 3708 2260 select Ss ?? 3:21.22 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -auth ... -6 0 2592 760 biowai D ?? 153:04.58 exptd: experiment: ... Ok, that's not unreasonable, but note the amount of swap in use; it's starting to look a bit suspicious. There's nothing like that much in toto in the VSZ column. A little bit later we see: Tue Oct 14 21:13:42 GMT 1997 Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/sd0s1b 131072 128116 2892 98% Interleaved PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND 2 0 39220 4132 select S ?? 61:35.05 .../bin.linux/idl display_init 18 0 4908 1020 pause S con- 226:26.83 .../bin.linux/idl analysis_init 2 0 3708 2444 select Ss ?? 3:35.28 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -auth ... 74 0 2592 1916 - R ?? 170:51.50 exptd: experiment: ... Whoa, where'd it all go? Next pass (10 seconds later) ps died because it couldn't allocate any memory. At this point, various things were failing (normally lots of fork/exec activity), but it struggled along. The analysis died eventually, which let a single pass run: Tue Oct 14 21:18:24 GMT 1997 Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/sd0s1b 131072 130212 796 99% Interleaved PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND -6 0 39236 5188 biowai D ?? 61:57.12 .../bin.linux/idl display_init 2 0 3708 2388 select Ss ?? 3:36.05 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -auth ... Note that just about everything else is gone, and still no swap left. Then, eventually the display dies too, and immediately all is well again: Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/sd0s1b 131072 9696 121312 7% Interleaved PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND -6 0 4240 836 biowai D ?? 0:00.23 .../bin.linux/idl analysis_init 2 0 3708 2436 select Ss ?? 3:38.57 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -auth ... -6 0 944 464 biowai D ?? 0:00.02 exptd: experiment: ... (The analysis and experiment were resurrected by their startup scripts) The conclusion reached from this is that the display process has somehow managed to own a lot of swap that wasn't attached to it. Any ideas? Suggested explanations? Upgrading this system will be a little difficult (it is in remote eastern Germany), but will be undertaken if a fix is likely. Thanks, mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 05:15:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA05403 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA05377 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA16686; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:13:21 -0700 (PDT) To: Carlo Dapor cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 86open and implication on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:23:44 +0200." <199710150823.KAA29036@nessie.ethz.ch> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:13:20 -0700 Message-ID: <16682.876917600@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I read the 86open 'vision'. > To me it sounds nice, having to generate simply one binary for many x86 plat- > forms. What you've read so far is very incomplete, so I would adopt a "wait for further announcements" attitude with regard to the whole 86open thing for now. The only announcement made so far hasn't even really named all of the players, something that I was worried would result in misunderstandings and which seems, in some cases at least, to have done just that, so I really do urge everyone to just give the effort a bit more time to get itself organized. More data will be forthcoming about the goals and chosen methods of the 86open effort, but until then I urge folks not to pester those involved for more details because, in many cases, even we're not sure yet. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 05:19:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA05997 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA05951 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:19:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00326; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:44:42 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710151214.VAA00326@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: stesin@gu.net cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for Fortran assistance. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:37:25 +0300." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:44:40 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > Our second design threw the data through a FIFO, but Fortran has funny > > formatting requirements for sequential-access data that have stymied us. > > What was so strange there with the formatting? To quote from /usr/src/lib/libI77/README: Unformatted sequential records consist of a length of record contents, the record contents themselves, and the length of record contents again (for backspace). Prior to 17 Oct. 1991, the length was of type int; now it is of type long, but you can change it back to int by inserting > > We tried converting to ASCII and then parsing it back in, but that's > > too slow. > > As far as I recall, Fortran is able to handle "binary" > input records (in a way like one do read(2)/write(2) > of a memory buffer containig a C struct foo { ... }; > or some kind of an array) You can do this with an unformatted file open for direct access, but this fails (blocks forever) on a FIFO. Worse, you can't vary the size of the entity read. 8( > Anyway you will be > able to fill a Fortran array with bytes from an input > stream without any conversion and use the buffer' content > in any way you like then, using Fortran' equivalent > of C union xxx { ... }; that is a COMMON construct. This would be OK if it worked (forgive any syntax, I'm not a Fortran programmer): character*1 foo open(unit=16,file='/tmp/fifo',form='unformatted',access='direct', $ recl=1,status='old') do irec = 0, 10000 read(unit=16,rec=irec,end=200)foo ... enddo but given a FIFO; eg. in a test case: # mkfifo /tmp/fifo # cat /kernel > /tmp/fifo & # ./testprogram it just sits there doing nothing. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 05:33:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07610 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:33:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA07605 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA11297; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:43:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199710151143.HAA11297@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Call for Fortran assistance. In-Reply-To: <199710150751.RAA02149@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Oct 15, 97 05:21:46 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Unfortunately, the customer is providing some of the software for the > system, and their language of preference is Fortran. We've seen their > code before, and it's disgusting. Unfortunately, they have the > algorithmic technology that we need, and they're not willing to > document it well enough for us to reimplement in another language. > (They have also stalled us up against a deadline, so we really don't > have the time either.) If they have a single input file / single output file (I assume this is signal processing) how about hacking the run time to intercept the reads and writes to those specific logical units? You will probably find they have all their variables as globals in unnamed COMMON and maybe you can get in before MAIN and put them in shared memory and bypass the I/O, and the reads and writes are just synchronization points for your process. However, this is really stupid. If they won't or can't agree to putting CALL GETINPUT and CALL PUTRESULT into their code then you should be really nervous. BTW, struct used to do a decent job of cleaning up FORTRAN although it turned it into ratfor. There are also commercial products that do the same thing but will turn it into more modern dialects. The last time I had to do something like this I wrote a parser to inhale the mess and belch it out as tidied up F77. Sometimes you will be pleasantly surprised at the underlying invisible structure of some of this old legacy code. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 05:34:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07724 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:34:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA07692 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:34:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@cyber.com.au) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA00595 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:33:50 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199710151233.WAA00595@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:33:49 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Before I commit a change that will fix this absurdity to FreeBSD (i.e. include if_var.h from if.h), perhaps someone can explain why this (seemingly needless) change was made. Darren > On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > > > In some mail I received from Ron Bolin, sie wrote > > > > > > Just thought I'd pass on these errors while trying to build the 32.b8 > > > ipfilter on FreeBSD 3.0 current 10-11-97. I'd look further, but I don't > > > have the time right now. > > [...] > > > > sigh...it wasn't always that bad... > > > > I wonder if that's due to freebsd header lossage or some other change > > which I didn't notice ... > > > > sigh. > > > > > Yeah, big sigh, struct ifnet was moved into net/if_var.h, for no real > advantage. I got these problems with 3.0 snap recently. > Also there is an ifdef in if.h that includes the struct only > if KERNEL defined. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 05:48:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09107 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA09090; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gad@mlor.its.rpi.edu) Received: from mlor.its.rpi.edu (mlor.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.92]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA79068; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:48:15 -0400 Received: by mlor.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA00448; Wed, 15 Oct 97 08:48:07 -0400 Message-Id: <9710151248.AA00448@mlor.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Wed, 15 Oct 97 08:48:05 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for VirtualPC? (on the PowerMac) Reply-To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu References: <199710102301.SAA00400@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id FAA09098 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On the subject of: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? Douglas Carmichael asks: > Could it be done by: > > 1) Porting the "Lites" single server (http://www.cs.hut.fi/lites.html) > to PowerPC > 2) Running it under Mach (which is already used by MkLinux) > 3) Making the whole "world" except the kernel and libraries from > FreeBSD/i386. > > What would be a good name for this project? > MkFreeBSD, FreeBSD/PPC, FreeBSD/MK? First off, I'd like to say I'd be interested in a FreeBSD/PPC if such an option existed... Secondly, I was wondering if FreeBSD will work under VirtualPC. I remember someone trying it and finding a bug in the VirtualPC emulation. VirtualPC was recently updated, and I was wondering if anyone had tried FreeBSD after that update. (the release notes for the VirtualPC upgrade have nothing that suggests this bug was fixed, but that may be just because they don't claim to officially support FreeBSD at the moment). --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 05:59:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA10443 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:59:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA10427; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:58:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gad@mlor.its.rpi.edu) Received: from mlor.its.rpi.edu (mlor.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.92]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA21584; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:58:49 -0400 Received: by mlor.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA00460; Wed, 15 Oct 97 08:58:41 -0400 Message-Id: <9710151258.AA00460@mlor.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Wed, 15 Oct 97 08:58:40 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the PowerMac? Reply-To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id FAA10428 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > Hmmm, we have netbsd/ppc, linux/ppc, and I assume openbsd/ppp. > What does freebsd add? esp. when the last power-pc-based computers > have been designed? a) If you feel freeBSD/PPC has nothing to offer, then why bother running FreeBSD on Intel-ish chips? There's a lot more operating systems on Intel-ish chips than there are on PPC, so FreeBSD must have even less to offer there. b) the "last" PPC computers have not been designed yet. c) I, for one, would be quite interested in FreeBSD/PPC (assuming someone else does most of the work... :-). On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > Hot rumor yesterday on http://www.macosrumors.com was that Motorola > and UMAX, unhappy with Apple's recent licensing about-face, were > each preparing separate take over attempts. At the same time > there is a move within Apple to merge or be bought out by Oracle > in order to prevent Motorola or UMAX from being able to swallow > them. > > Possibly the most interesting thing about that tidbit is today > that site has been unreachable from my work or home connections. If you check the MacInTouch site, they have a blurb saying that the macosrumours site is moving to a new ISP. So, they may be unreachable for a day or two. THis has nothing much to do with the rumour-of-the-day. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 06:18:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12556 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 06:18:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from horton.iaces.com (root@horton.iaces.com [204.147.87.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12543; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 06:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from proot@iaces.com) Received: from fievel (client1.iaces.com [204.147.87.119]) by horton.iaces.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19441; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:17:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3444C27B.A44B727F@iaces.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:17:47 -0500 From: Paul Root X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jacques Hugo CC: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: md5 vs DES on new 2.2.2 install X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <34447495.3F54BC7E@wired.ctech.ac.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacques Hugo wrote: > > Hi there ... > > I guess the subject says is all. > > What are the pros and cons of installing a new > 2.2.2 fbsd system when looking at installing > DES of MD5 as your encryption? What do > you guys suggest? If you need to inter-operate (share passwd file info) with other machines using DES, then install DES. Otherwise, don't. Paul. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 06:40:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA14628 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 06:40:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA14448; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 06:38:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00681; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:04:37 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710151334.XAA00681@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for VirtualPC? (on the PowerMac) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:48:05 -0400." <9710151248.AA00448@mlor.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:04:36 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Secondly, I was wondering if FreeBSD will work under VirtualPC. > I remember someone trying it and finding a bug in the VirtualPC > emulation. VirtualPC was recently updated, and I was wondering > if anyone had tried FreeBSD after that update. (the release notes > for the VirtualPC upgrade have nothing that suggests this bug was > fixed, but that may be just because they don't claim to officially > support FreeBSD at the moment). Yes, it works just fine. The bug was identified and fixed by Connectix about a day after it was identified. If you are interested in a PC emulator for the Mac, this one looks pretty hot. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 07:10:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA17002 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:10:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA16997 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:10:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA28975 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:10:56 GMT Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:10:56 GMT From: Charles Green Message-Id: <199710151010.KAA28975@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Question about file opens Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For a project I'm working on we're interested in tracking file opens, and are interested in the best way of tracking them. Any ideas? Or is it impossible without modifying the kernel? -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. Rome Laboratory, NY From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 07:21:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA17744 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from css.tuu.utas.edu.au (acs@css.tuu.utas.edu.au [131.217.115.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA17723; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:21:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@ugh.net.au) From: andrew@ugh.net.au Received: from localhost (acs@localhost) by css.tuu.utas.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA06672; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:20:49 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: depravitas.tuu.utas.edu.au: acs owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:20:49 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: andrew@ugh.net.au To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Custom boot.flp (was Re: FreeBSD for VirtualPC? (on the PowerMac)) In-Reply-To: <9710151248.AA00448@mlor.its.rpi.edu> Message-ID: X-Meaning-of-Life: none X-WonK: *wibble* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Garance A Drosehn wrote: > Secondly, I was wondering if FreeBSD will work under VirtualPC. I beleive yes. > I remember someone trying it and finding a bug in the VirtualPC > emulation. VirtualPC was recently updated, and I was wondering > if anyone had tried FreeBSD after that update. (the release notes > for the VirtualPC upgrade have nothing that suggests this bug was > fixed, but that may be just because they don't claim to officially > support FreeBSD at the moment). I think it works if you can make an installer disk with a kernel that dosn't know about Pentiums. I am trying to do this at this very moment. In fact I have a message to questions postponed asking how to do it :-) I got some help from jkh on IRC but still cant do it (I know its probably obvious). Does someone have step by step instructions on how to od this? I tried using /usr/src/release/doFS.sh but found that the system didn't like disklabel a vn0 device with a boot record. I cant actually do it to a floppy as i dont have access to the floppy drive. Once i get it going I will use dd, ftp it to a DOS box...there must be one somewhere...and use rawrite. Thanks, Andrew From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 07:58:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA20464 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:58:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (wired.ctech.ac.za [155.238.4.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20433 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:58:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wired.ctech.ac.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA25710 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:58:58 +0200 (SAT) Message-ID: <3444DA32.63DECDAD@wired.ctech.ac.za> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:58:58 +0200 From: Jacques Hugo X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: values for exit() Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ... Where can I find the exit values for exit()? Meaning, what is the difference between eg exit(1) and exit(2)? Thanks -Jacques ----------------------------------------------------- The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" ... so I got BSD System Administrator | Jacques Hugo UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 ------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 08:08:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA21817 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:08:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from eps.ufsc.br (root@eps.ufsc.br [150.162.1.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21773 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from george@eps.ufsc.br) Received: from localhost (d39.ad.eps.ufsc.br [150.162.46.39]) by eps.ufsc.br (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14597 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:06:05 -0300 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:07:27 -0200 (EDT) From: George Tavares X-Sender: george@localhost To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: md5 vs DES on new 2.2.2 install In-Reply-To: <34447495.3F54BC7E@wired.ctech.ac.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Jacques Hugo wrote: > Hi there ... > > I guess the subject says is all. > > What are the pros and cons of installing a new > 2.2.2 fbsd system when looking at installing > DES of MD5 as your encryption? What do > you guys suggest? I think that MD5 password encryption is more secure. It is more dificult to try brute force password crack. I only install DES encryption when I am changing a machine from Linux to FreeBSD, to preserve the password map. If you want use YP/NIS with other OS, you probaly need use DES, the normal encryption of the other OS. Maybe solaris, with the DES map can serve freebsd, but I never test. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | George Tavares Ciencias da Computacao - UFSC | | Fone:(048)331-7020 E-mail: george@eps.ufsc.br | | http://www.eps.ufsc.br/~george PGP key disponivel por http | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 08:55:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26518 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:55:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26497 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@ws6303.gud.siemens.at) Received: from ws6303-f (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id RAA23707; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:54:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ws6423.gud.siemens.at (ws6423-f) by ws6303-f with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA211240838; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:53:58 +0200 Received: by ws6423.gud.siemens.at (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA27333; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:52:41 +0200 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:52:41 +0200 From: lada@ws6303.gud.siemens.at (marino.ladavac@siemens.at) Message-Id: <199710151552.RAA27333@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Subject: Re: values for exit() Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: MIzgaKQF7j+8p9lgfwsHqA== Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 17:45:21 MET 1997 > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:58:58 +0200 > From: Jacques Hugo > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: values for exit() > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Hi there ... > > Where can I find the exit values for > exit()? Meaning, what is the difference > between eg exit(1) and exit(2)? Taken from hackers. The lowest 8 bits of the exit argument can be picked up with wait(2). exit(0) is defined as successful termination and treated as such by the invoking shell. All other exit(2) values are signals of failure and should be treated as such by the invoking programs (the shells do it already.) Please beware that exit(256) is the same as exit(0)! You can use it for the programs that are usually invoked from some other programs of yours in order to send some post-mortem signal to its invoker i.e. where did it die, and why. /Marino > > Thanks > -Jacques > > ----------------------------------------------------- > The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" > ... so I got BSD > > System Administrator | Jacques Hugo > UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za > Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 > ------------------------------------------------------ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 08:57:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26780 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:57:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26775 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:56:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06427; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710151559.IAA06427@implode.root.com> To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd out-of-swap condition; ideas? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:32:03 +0930." <199710151202.VAA00264@word.smith.net.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:59:36 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Tue Oct 14 21:18:24 GMT 1997 >Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type >/dev/sd0s1b 131072 130212 796 99% Interleaved > PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > -6 0 39236 5188 biowai D ?? 61:57.12 .../bin.linux/idl display_init > 2 0 3708 2388 select Ss ?? 3:36.05 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -auth ... > >Note that just about everything else is gone, and still no swap left. >Then, eventually the display dies too, and immediately all is well >again: > >Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type >/dev/sd0s1b 131072 9696 121312 7% Interleaved >PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > -6 0 4240 836 biowai D ?? 0:00.23 .../bin.linux/idl analysis_init > 2 0 3708 2436 select Ss ?? 3:38.57 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -auth ... > -6 0 944 464 biowai D ?? 0:00.02 exptd: experiment: ... > >(The analysis and experiment were resurrected by their startup scripts) > >The conclusion reached from this is that the display process has >somehow managed to own a lot of swap that wasn't attached to it. Are you sure that the display proc had no children (which may have gone away when the system killed off the parent)? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 08:57:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26844 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:57:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26833 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:57:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA06952; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:57:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: Charles Green cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Question about file opens In-Reply-To: <199710151010.KAA28975@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Charles Green wrote: > For a project I'm working on we're interested in tracking file opens, > and are interested in the best way of tracking them. Any ideas? Or is it > impossible without modifying the kernel? There are two ways, auditing (which freebsd doesnt have yet - see http://shell.firehouse.net/~brian/bsdc2audit for preliminary driver) or modifying the libc stubs. You could also use a preloaded shared lib to do it without rebuilding libc, if you wanted to. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 09:00:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27249 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27240 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA13685; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd013682; Wed Oct 15 15:57:37 1997 Message-ID: <3444E7A2.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:56:18 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Reed CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) References: <199710151233.WAA00595@plum.cyber.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk All the "_var.h" files contain variables who'se scope is within the kernel only. The only exception is LKMs which should define KERNEL. I don't know who did this, (I see in the logs it was garrett) but the idea is simply to make it more obvios when you are doing the WRONG thing and including kernel private variables (that are subject to change, and not part of the API) . julian Darren Reed wrote: > > Before I commit a change that will fix this absurdity to FreeBSD (i.e. > include if_var.h from if.h), perhaps someone can explain why this > (seemingly needless) change was made. > > Darren > > > On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > > > > > In some mail I received from Ron Bolin, sie wrote > > > > > > > > Just thought I'd pass on these errors while trying to build the 32.b8 > > > > ipfilter on FreeBSD 3.0 current 10-11-97. I'd look further, but I don't > > > > have the time right now. > > > [...] > > > > > > sigh...it wasn't always that bad... > > > > > > I wonder if that's due to freebsd header lossage or some other change > > > which I didn't notice ... > > > > > > sigh. > > > > > > > > Yeah, big sigh, struct ifnet was moved into net/if_var.h, for no real > > advantage. I got these problems with 3.0 snap recently. > > Also there is an ifdef in if.h that includes the struct only > > if KERNEL defined. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 09:44:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00420 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:44:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (rFRsWqi7OGmM+XHyVwNghNtyH6dPDYgw@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00413 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:44:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak73.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.73] ([XYF4ImlfdGtkRq7n9oFOMu6U4ilo7X7P]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xLWZ5-0004ub-00; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:44:55 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak73.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xLWYH-0007cs-00; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:44:05 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:44:04 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Brian Mitchell Subject: Re: Question about file opens Cc: c@doc.ic.ac.uk, hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Charles Green wrote: > > > For a project I'm working on we're interested in tracking file opens, > > and are interested in the best way of tracking them. Any ideas? Or is it > > impossible without modifying the kernel? > > There are two ways, auditing (which freebsd doesnt have yet - see > http://shell.firehouse.net/~brian/bsdc2audit for preliminary driver) or > modifying the libc stubs. You could also use a preloaded shared lib to do > it without rebuilding libc, if you wanted to. Its probably worth noting that if the auditing is for security-related purposes then modifying the libc stubs is worse than useless because the system calls can be called directly by the hacker without libc. Niall From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 09:44:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00441 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:44:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.ray.com (gatekeeper.ray.com [138.125.162.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00415 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:44:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Gregory_D_Moncreaff@res.raytheon.com) Received: (mailer@localhost) by gatekeeper.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA24268 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:44:07 -0400 Received: from notes.res.ray.com/138.125.97.35() by gatekeeper.ray.com id sma018755; Wed Oct 15 12:42:51 1997 X-SMAP-TO: Received: by notes.res.ray.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 85256531.005BCD93 ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:42:44 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: RES From: "Gregory D Moncreaff" To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <85256531.005BCD2C.00@notes.res.ray.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:42:42 -0400 Subject: kern/uipc_socket.c:soreceive() can't get control data from a disconnected socket? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is this by accident or design? PR_CONNREQUIRED is only supposed to gate send according to sys/protosw.h... if (m == 0 || (( ..... ..... if ((so->so_state & (SS_ISCONNECTED|SS_ISCONNECTING)) == 0 && (so->so_proto->pr_flags & PR_CONNREQUIRED)) { error = ENOTCONN; goto release; ..... while (m && m->m_type == MT_CONTROL && error == 0) { if (flags & MSG_PEEK) { if (controlp) *controlp = m_copy(m, 0, m->m_len); m = m->m_next; ..... release: sbunlock(&so->so_rcv); splx(s); return (error); ===================================================================== Gregory D. Moncreaff Phone 1-508-490-2048 Raytheon Electronic Systems Fax 1-508-490-2086 Gregory_D_Moncreaff@res.raytheon.com Home moncrg@ma.ultranet.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 09:51:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00879 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00869 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA07276; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:51:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:51:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Mitchell To: Niall Smart cc: c@doc.ic.ac.uk, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about file opens In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Niall Smart wrote: > > On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Charles Green wrote: > > > > > For a project I'm working on we're interested in tracking file opens, > > > and are interested in the best way of tracking them. Any ideas? Or is it > > > impossible without modifying the kernel? > > > > There are two ways, auditing (which freebsd doesnt have yet - see > > http://shell.firehouse.net/~brian/bsdc2audit for preliminary driver) or > > modifying the libc stubs. You could also use a preloaded shared lib to do > > it without rebuilding libc, if you wanted to. > > Its probably worth noting that if the auditing is for security-related > purposes then modifying the libc stubs is worse than useless because > the system calls can be called directly by the hacker without libc. > > Niall > Yes. I'm assuming the original poster is not needing to do this for security related purposes, but rather for debugging purposes. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 09:54:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01140 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:54:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01135 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.NoDak.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22736; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:54:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:54:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199710151654.LAA22736@plains.NoDak.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Subject: Re: values for exit() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Where can I find the exit values for > exit()? Meaning, what is the difference > between eg exit(1) and exit(2)? each application defines their return code meanings. The important rule is that 0 means no error, non-zero indicates an error or special condition. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 10:48:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06769 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA06755 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:48:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA09527; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:30:17 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710151630.RAA09527@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD for digital recording w/PCI multitrack in/out cards? To: steve@visint.co.uk (Stephen Roome) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:30:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: dcarmich@Mcs.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Stephen Roome" at Oct 13, 97 12:30:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > What multitrack recording software exists for FreeBSD? > > > > it's a user-space thing, once we have solved the device problem as > > depicted above, any software available on the net for unix machines > > will do. i know of none at the moment but I think I have seen something > > on the net. check the oss page or some linux doc on audio. > > I was going to comment on this earlier in response to the question of why > there is no good audio software for FreeBSD (which was bought up in the > recent Wintel outsels UNIX discussion). ... > Currently I'm working on a project (albeit at home) to do digital sound > effects with FreeBSD, and later multitracking. I've got some little X apps > I've written to give oscilloscope like readings of the sound inputs etc., > (two channel only), but it's hell trying to write this stuff, and that's > the problem.. There's no documentation! you should really look at the audio driver I wrote and its documentation, which should really be helpful. In a few days I will also provide a manual for the API I am developing in parallel with the old voxware one; as you will see there is much more support for synchronization, which is what you need for your type of apps. Plus, my driver supports multiple cards of the same type (if they are distinguishable; there are some unnamed PnP cards which have the same vendor id and serial number thus being undistinguishable at the PnP level...). Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 13:24:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24778 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:24:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24758 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA05646; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:23:42 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA13618; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:55:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971015215513.ZP41248@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:55:13 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Subject: Re: values for exit() References: <199710151654.LAA22736@plains.NoDak.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199710151654.LAA22736@plains.NoDak.edu>; from Mark Tinguely on Oct 15, 1997 11:54:28 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Tinguely wrote: > > Where can I find the exit values for > > exit()? Meaning, what is the difference > > between eg exit(1) and exit(2)? > > each application defines their return code meanings. The important > rule is that 0 means no error, non-zero indicates an error or special > condition. Not necessarily. style(9) encourages the use of the values as documented in sysexits(3). In particular new stuff should better stick to it. Of course, a utility that wishes to report just shell-script true/ false values will do fine by only using 0 or 1 for the exit values. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 13:28:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25756 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25698 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA05381; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:34:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710152034.WAA05381@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Question about file opens In-Reply-To: <199710151010.KAA28975@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> from Charles Green at "Oct 15, 97 10:10:56 am" To: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu (Charles Green) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:34:43 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Charles Green: > For a project I'm working on we're interested in tracking file opens, > and are interested in the best way of tracking them. Any ideas? Or is it > impossible without modifying the kernel? Does the lsof utility in the ports collection work for you? /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 13:41:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA27589 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from scheme.xcf.berkeley.edu (scheme.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27567 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:41:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@scheme.xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 7405 invoked by uid 27268); 15 Oct 1997 20:32:30 -0000 Date: 15 Oct 1997 20:32:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19971015203230.7404.qmail@scheme.xcf.berkeley.edu> From: Jason Alan Nordwick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Jacques Hugo Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: damn, damn, damn ... getting confused here. In-Reply-To: jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za on 10/15/1997 to questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG <344476E5.31DFF4F5@wired.ctech.ac.za> References: <344476E5.31DFF4F5@wired.ctech.ac.za> X-Mailer: VM 6.32 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacques Hugo, on Wed 10/15/1997, wrote the following: > > Hi there ... hope you can help. > > What is the difference between a device like > /dev/vn0 and /dev/vn0c ?? > > What does the 'c' mean? > > Thanks. > > -Jacques IT is a character device, rather than a block device. I understand the distinction between raw and cooked (old terminolgy ?), but besides tty's, is there any other form of "cooked" devices ? jay -- Join the FreeBSD Revolution! http://xcf.berkeley.edu/~nordwick From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 14:15:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA02482 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02474 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:15:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Anthony.Kimball@East.Sun.COM) Received: from East.Sun.COM ([129.148.1.241]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id OAA14627; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:18:45 -0700 Received: from suneast.East.Sun.COM by East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id RAA09666; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:15:00 -0400 Received: from compound.east.sun.com by suneast.East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA03257; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:15:00 -0400 Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound.east.sun.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id QAA28947; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:24:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:24:39 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: Anthony.Kimball@East.Sun.COM Message-Id: <199710152124.QAA28947@compound.east.sun.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn To: mike@smith.net.au Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Call for Fortran assistance X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under 19.14 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Our second design threw the data through a FIFO, but Fortran has funny > formatting requirements for sequential-access data that have stymied > us. Generally, there is a header word for each binary record in a sequential-access file indicating how many bytes are in the record. Thus write(7) [1:5], 2.0d0*[1:5] (f90 syntax used for conciseness) results in a file containing binary data representing the values { 60, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 2.0, 4.0, 6.0, 8.0, 10.0 } (assuming real*8.) > We've offered to write a Fortran-callable C procedure that can manage > reading the FIFO, but they don't use procedures much (!) and want an > all-fortran solution. Now you're talking about a mentally defective customer. I can't fix that:-) What is the platform? You should be able to use shared memory, if there are fortran bindings to libc available. Or you could just provide a library of fortran bindings written in C and not tell them about it. It sound like they're clueless enough not to be able to tell the difference. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 14:45:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07502 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07471; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:45:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA25049; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd025044; Wed Oct 15 21:38:52 1997 Message-ID: <3445379D.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:37:33 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Alan Nordwick CC: Jacques Hugo , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: damn, damn, damn ... getting confused here. References: <344476E5.31DFF4F5@wired.ctech.ac.za> <19971015203230.7404.qmail@scheme.xcf.berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jason Alan Nordwick wrote: > > Jacques Hugo, on Wed 10/15/1997, wrote the following: > > > > Hi there ... hope you can help. > > > > What is the difference between a device like > > /dev/vn0 and /dev/vn0c ?? > > > > What does the 'c' mean? > > > > Thanks. > > > > -Jacques > > IT is a character device, rather than a block device. no it is not. it is a dummy partition to maintain compatibility because some software assumes there will be a 'c' partition that represents the whole device. > > I understand the distinction between raw and cooked (old > terminolgy ?), but besides tty's, is there any other form of > "cooked" devices ? not really, but disks are block or raw (char). tapes can (not in freeBSD) have a block interface. > > jay > -- > Join the FreeBSD Revolution! > http://xcf.berkeley.edu/~nordwick From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 15:48:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15252 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:48:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15235 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:48:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05897; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710152247.PAA05897@rah.star-gate.com> To: Stephen Roome cc: Luigi Rizzo , Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for digital recording w/PCI multitrack in/out cards? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:30:43 BST." Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:47:19 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The guspnp driver api or linux sound driver 3.5 is well documented in the oss web page. Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Stephen Roome : > On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > What multitrack recording software exists for FreeBSD? > > > > it's a user-space thing, once we have solved the device problem as > > depicted above, any software available on the net for unix machines > > will do. i know of none at the moment but I think I have seen something > > on the net. check the oss page or some linux doc on audio. > > I was going to comment on this earlier in response to the question of why > there is no good audio software for FreeBSD (which was bought up in the > recent Wintel outsels UNIX discussion). > > Currently I'm working on a project (albeit at home) to do digital sound > effects with FreeBSD, and later multitracking. I've got some little X apps > I've written to give oscilloscope like readings of the sound inputs etc., > (two channel only), but it's hell trying to write this stuff, and that's > the problem.. There's no documentation! > > I've got the voxware faq, which seems to document voxware 0.001, (or is > there a newer FAQ? I couldn't find it), I'm using GUSPNP15 with my AWE64 > and, well there's comments in the source. (although people who want to > mention that I should "UTSL" might be missing something!) > > Anyway this all gives me the impression that until there's some stability > or just some available documentation (for a standard sound API) then it's > going to be really tricky to be writing any decent multitracker type > software. > > N.B. This isn't a dig at the multimedia folks, because in the last year > they seem to have really got stuff moving nicely. I'm just saying that > it's not easy developing audio stuff at the moment - which might be why > I've taken up XLib instead. (Now that says it all!) > > Steve. > > -- > Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. > Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 > WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 15:52:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15704 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:52:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15688; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:52:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18481; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:49:45 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710152249.XAA18481@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian Somers cc: stesin@gu.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New PPP? (Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:21:24 BST." <199710150121.CAA07608@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:49:45 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oops, one last thing. I haven't merged the MSChap changes into ppp RELENG_2_2. It's definitely a new feature rather than a bug fix, but it's non-obtrusive given that you have to enable it. Should I merge this Jordan ? Would this hurt release ? > > BTW: how about the most modern PPP stuff (by Brian Somers) > > present in -current? will it be the part of 2.2.5? > > > > Best regards, > > Andrew Stesin > > The only things not in RELENG_2_2 are: > > 1. An MTU negotiation thing that makes ppp NAK the peers MRU if > you've "set mtu" in your config file. This is somewhat cosmetic > - I may merge it. > > 2. The LCP layers are not shut down correctly. This is apparant if > you run ppp -background. When ppp times out, it exits without > ever actually sending the TerminateReq to the other side. I'm > currently looking at bringing this into 2.2, pending a reply from > tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance) confirming that his somewhat > obscure case is now behaving correctly. This has been tested > fairly extensively in -current over the past couple of weeks by > me (and hopefully some of the other committers - I followed up > the commit with a plea for testing - no news is good news). > > > nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE > > > > > > -- > Brian , , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 15:52:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15714 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:52:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15689 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:52:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18367; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:13:54 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710152213.XAA18367@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Charles Mott cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBIOS across a masquerading gateway In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:49:53 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:13:54 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [.....] > (2) If so, can such networking work across > the existing FreeBSD masquerading mechanism > in natd and ppp -alias? The only show-stopper I'm aware of is that the libalias stuff doesn't handle broadcast addresses too well (unless you fixed it in the last few months). [.....] > -- Charles Mott > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 15:52:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15787 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:52:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15734 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:52:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18405; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:24:26 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710152224.XAA18405@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mark Tinguely cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Subject: Re: values for exit() In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:54:28 CDT." <199710151654.LAA22736@plains.NoDak.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:24:26 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Where can I find the exit values for > > exit()? Meaning, what is the difference > > between eg exit(1) and exit(2)? > > each application defines their return code meanings. The important > rule is that 0 means no error, non-zero indicates an error or special > condition. Although this is true in practice, the theory is in sysexits.h > --mark. -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 15:53:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15909 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15898 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18393; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:23:16 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710152223.XAA18393@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:56:18 PDT." <3444E7A2.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:23:16 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > All the "_var.h" files contain variables who'se scope is within the > kernel only. The only exception is LKMs which should define KERNEL. > I don't know who did this, (I see in the logs it was garrett) > but the idea is simply to make it more obvios when you are > doing the WRONG thing > and including kernel private variables (that are subject to change, > and not part of the API) . > > julian But "struct ifnet" is decl'd in if_var.h and referenced from many other files. It's therefore necessary to #include if_var.h before including the likes of if_ether.h or in_var.h. > Darren Reed wrote: > > > > Before I commit a change that will fix this absurdity to FreeBSD (i.e. > > include if_var.h from if.h), perhaps someone can explain why this > > (seemingly needless) change was made. I'd certainly welcome the ``fix'', but I suspect you'll have some opposition. -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 16:48:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19039 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:48:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19030 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:48:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02265; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:14:57 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710152344.JAA02265@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dg@root.com cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd out-of-swap condition; ideas? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:59:36 MST." <199710151559.IAA06427@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:14:54 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > >The conclusion reached from this is that the display process has > >somehow managed to own a lot of swap that wasn't attached to it. > > Are you sure that the display proc had no children (which may have gone > away when the system killed off the parent)? Over its lifetime it would have forked a lot of children (about 2-3 every 5 seconds), but there were none in the 'ps' listing so I am presuming that they were reaped successfully, as they normally are. At the time of that last ps listing, there were only about 40 procs in the system total, with the display (40M) and the X server (~5M) being the two largest. One other idea that had occurred to me; does the VSZ include the size of the stack? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 17:20:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20942 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:20:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20935 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA01884; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:15:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:15:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Brian Somers cc: Mark Tinguely , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Subject: Re: values for exit() In-Reply-To: <199710152224.XAA18405@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > > > Where can I find the exit values for > > > exit()? Meaning, what is the difference > > > between eg exit(1) and exit(2)? > > > > each application defines their return code meanings. The important > > rule is that 0 means no error, non-zero indicates an error or special > > condition. > > Although this is true in practice, the theory is in sysexits.h Brian, I don't think so. Excepting maybe Garrett, who uses it a lot for networking, I don't think it's used a whole great deal. The non-standard may be nearer a standard, although (because sysexits offsets the returns from a fairly high base number to allow for exit numbers already out there) sysexits is pretty compatible. Some return the errno, don't they? > > > --mark. > > -- > Brian , , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 18:11:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23708 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:11:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23701 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:11:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11661; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710160114.SAA11661@implode.root.com> To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd out-of-swap condition; ideas? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:14:54 +0930." <199710152344.JAA02265@word.smith.net.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:14:29 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >At the time of that last ps listing, there were only about 40 procs in >the system total, with the display (40M) and the X server (~5M) being >the two largest. > >One other idea that had occurred to me; does the VSZ include the size >of the stack? Yes, but it doesn't include the space of any mmapped files. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 18:23:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24232 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:23:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24223 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:23:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA17530; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:22:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:22:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for Fortran assistance. In-Reply-To: <199710150751.RAA02149@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > Ok, if the 'F' word upsets you, you can ignore this thread with > impunity. If you know something about fortran, a few brief words would > be quite helpful. > > > Our initial design assumed that they would be able to read this on > standard input; wrong. > > Our second design threw the data through a FIFO, but Fortran has funny > formatting requirements for sequential-access data that have stymied us. > > We tried converting to ASCII and then parsing it back in, but that's > too slow. > > We've offered to write a Fortran-callable C procedure that can manage > reading the FIFO, but they don't use procedures much (!) and want an > all-fortran solution. > > If you have ever done anything like this before, I'd *really* like to > know how you did it, before we bludgeon the customer and commit to a > total rewrite... Simple Pass it through by punch cards. Doesn't FreeBSD support card punches? :p God, aren't I helpful? *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 19:01:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25888 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25873; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:01:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21271; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:53:25 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710152353.AAA21271@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian Somers cc: stesin@gu.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New PPP? (Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:49:45 BST." <199710152249.XAA18481@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:53:25 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan pointed out, we don't need any DES problems at this stage :-O Apart from MSChap (and the use of srandomdev() - damn, I really meant to talk to Andrey about merging that), ppp in 2.2 is now the same as ppp in -current. > Oops, one last thing. I haven't merged the MSChap changes into ppp > RELENG_2_2. It's definitely a new feature rather than a bug fix, but > it's non-obtrusive given that you have to enable it. > > Should I merge this Jordan ? Would this hurt release ? > > > > BTW: how about the most modern PPP stuff (by Brian Somers) > > > present in -current? will it be the part of 2.2.5? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Andrew Stesin -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 19:32:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27425 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:32:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27402 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id UAA15366; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA15929; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:32:27 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:32:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Marc Slemko To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd out-of-swap condition; ideas? In-Reply-To: <199710151202.VAA00264@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > ** Firstly, please note that this is on a 2.2 of around February vintage; > ** if this is known-and-fixed, say no more than that and we will proceed > ** to negotiating an upgrade. > > > We have a system in the field that is showing an odd out-of-swap > condition. What's most odd is that it appears to involve a leak of > some sort, where swap remains attached to a process even though the > process doesn't appear to require it. All I can say is that I see similar things on a news server running 2.2-stable from late Auguest. In my case, it is a process (innfeed) that allocates and deallocates large amounts of memory (perhaps a couple of gigs) over its life of a couple of days. More and more swap gets used up with no visable process using it. Killing innfeed restores it. Note that when innfeed is killed, it goes through a graceful shutdown lasting several minutes. During that shutdown, it free()s memory as it finishes things. The swap space used decreases in a way that looks loosely proportional to the amount of memory being deallocated, but ~3x the amount. It is not a case where the swap only comes back when the process completely exits. I'll see about checking /proc//map next time I see one to see if anything is odd there. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 19:42:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA28043 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA28035 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@cyber.com.au) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA09731; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:21:48 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199710152321.JAA09731@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:21:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3444E7A2.41C67EA6@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 15, 97 08:56:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > All the "_var.h" files contain variables who'se scope is within the > kernel only. Yup, I think that's a reasonable approach to take. I don't think it should extend, however, to structure definitions. > The only exception is LKMs which should define KERNEL. > I don't know who did this, (I see in the logs it was garrett) > but the idea is simply to make it more obvios when you are > doing the WRONG thing > and including kernel private variables (that are subject to change, > and not part of the API) . There is an API ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 20:12:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29313 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:12:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29306 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from digital@www2.shoppersnet.com) Received: (from digital@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA27753; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:10:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi guys! It appears to me that some users subscribed to the freebsd mailing lists are pulling email addresses from message writers here and then using those email addresses to send junk email. This must be the case because I even killed my own login name and created a new one only for reply messages to freebsd mailing lists and it turns out to be the only one getting hit by spam now. I vote to "axe" this person's access. This person doesn't seem to be using the mailing list as a relay but pulling addresses and then sending them out directly. --------------------------- >From tracy@force4.net Wed Oct 15 16:02:27 1997 Received: from mailer.ran.es ([194.140.47.1]) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18825 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:02:23 -0700 (PDT) From: tracy@force4.net Message-Id: <199710152302.QAA18825@www2.shoppersnet.com> Received: from user900.meznet3.net ([194.88.73.19]) by mailer.ran.es (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id ABC150; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:50:03 +0200 To: die_@turkishtrade.com Subject: hi Reply-To: tracy@force4.net Date: Fri, 10 Sep 97 20:24:52 EST Cc: tracy@force4.net Status: RO X-Status: Hi there, A quick line to offer you a free bulk email program, use it for your company mailing list, advertising or starting your own company newsletter. It does not matter what you use it for it's free. "Hey, nothing Is For Free - What's The Catch" Well the only thing you have to put up with is our name at the foot of your email message ! And that's it ! (not much of a catch really). If you would like a free copy (win95) simply reply to this email with the words 'Send' as the subject ! If you are not interested and would prefer never hear my name again then hit reply with the word 'remove' in the subject header. Have a nice day Tracy Richardson Zen Bulk Emailer V3.2 (free) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 20:18:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29667 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:18:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29659 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:18:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00331; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:45:42 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710160315.MAA00331@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dg@root.com cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd out-of-swap condition; ideas? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:14:29 MST." <199710160114.SAA11661@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:45:42 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >At the time of that last ps listing, there were only about 40 procs in > >the system total, with the display (40M) and the X server (~5M) being > >the two largest. > > > >One other idea that had occurred to me; does the VSZ include the size > >of the stack? > > Yes, but it doesn't include the space of any mmapped files. Damn. IDL wouldn't know what mmap() was if it jumped up and bit it. It might be something to do with the Linux libc allocator, but I didn't think gnumalloc was that chummy with the VM system. Mark Slemko sayeth: > All I can say is that I see similar things on a news server running > 2.2-stable from late August. > > In my case, it is a process (innfeed) that allocates and deallocates > large amounts of memory (perhaps a couple of gigs) over its life > of a couple of days. More and more swap gets used up with no visable > process using it. Killing innfeed restores it. > > Note that when innfeed is killed, it goes through a graceful shutdown > lasting several minutes. During that shutdown, it free()s memory > as it finishes things. The swap space used decreases in a way that > looks loosely proportional to the amount of memory being deallocated, > but ~3x the amount. It is not a case where the swap only comes back > when the process completely exits. Hmm, interesting. This looks *very* similar. It prettymuch rules out the applications and libraries in both cases, as there's nothing in common between the two. Is it possible that there's some way in which too much swap might become attached to a given extent of a process' space? Is there any way of examining the swap allocation for a given process? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 20:59:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA01616 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:59:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01602 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA19823; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:59:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:59:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Howard Lew cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Howard Lew wrote: > > Hi guys! > > It appears to me that some users subscribed to the freebsd mailing lists > are pulling email addresses from message writers here and then using > those email addresses to send junk email. > > This must be the case because I even killed my own login name and created a > new one only for reply messages to freebsd mailing lists and it turns out to > be the only one getting hit by spam now. > > I vote to "axe" this person's access. This person doesn't seem to be using > the mailing list as a relay but pulling addresses and then sending them out > directly. This would be their new trick. I use procmail to sort things from owner-freebsd-questions into one folder, etc for the lists I'm on, and this came sailing directly into my inbox. Can't think of any really good way to combat this, since it doesn't route through hub.freebsd.org, except on an individual basis. And since Tracy here used a Netscape mailer (check the header which I deleted), from what looks like a dial-up ISP connection, the obvious solution of a ping -s 4096 -f just doesn't really work. > > --------------------------- > > A quick line to offer you a free bulk email program, use it > for your company mailing list, advertising or starting your own > company newsletter. It does not matter what you use it for it's free. > > Tracy Richardson > Zen Bulk Emailer V3.2 (free) Although from the looks of this, if all of us sent her mail promoting the benefits of a free mailing list manager such as majordomo...? ;) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 21:12:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02233 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:12:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02228 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00569 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:39:56 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710160409.NAA00569@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone with Iomega Ditto / Sony Storstation? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:39:55 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just wondering if anyone out there has (or has access to) a parallel-port Iomega Ditto unit? (These are also sold as the Sony Storstation I believe.) If you do, and have access to a -current system, I'd be interested to know whether the ppbus/vpo drivers are able to find it... Thanks, mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 21:27:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02852 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA02843 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 2599 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Oct 1997 04:27:54 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-100797 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: cvsup2, where are you? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know? It pings fine. But cvsup connects and nothing happens :-( --- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 21:31:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03141 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:31:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03136 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 2684 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Oct 1997 04:31:54 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-100797 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How do I read RTF files? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry if this the wrong place. I forgot how to do that :-( Used to have (on Linux?) an acrobat reader (or maybe two?) . Anything for us here? --- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 21:32:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03246 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03231 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:32:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00720 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:59:07 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710160429.NAA00720@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Someone show blow Fortran up. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:59:05 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Or more to the point, ignorant Fortran programmers. Based on some points made by respondents to my earlier post, I went back and tried some test cases that our customer had indicated didn't work. And they did. So I guess that'll teach me to trust them to do anything right. One result of many of the comments I've received has been a stiffening of our position with said customer, and it looks like a rewrite in a maintainable form is pending regardless. Thanks for your assistance, especially in the spine department. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 21:36:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03487 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03461; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00746; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:02:07 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710160432.OAA00746@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: andrew@ugh.net.au cc: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Custom boot.flp (was Re: FreeBSD for VirtualPC? (on the PowerMac)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:20:49 +1100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:02:06 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Garance A Drosehn wrote: > > > Secondly, I was wondering if FreeBSD will work under VirtualPC. > > I beleive yes. ... > I think it works if you can make an installer disk with a kernel that > dosn't know about Pentiums. You don't need to do this, if you have patched VPC up to date; the problem with the Pentium HRT was fixed a long time ago. If you try to run a non-Pentium kernel on the VPC, it will panic on your anyway, as the VPC _is_ a Pentium. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 15 23:40:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09625 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09620 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA07875; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd007872; Thu Oct 16 06:38:44 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:37:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199710152321.JAA09731@plum.cyber.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > > > All the "_var.h" files contain variables who'se scope is within the > > kernel only. > > Yup, I think that's a reasonable approach to take. > But these are structures that are not exported, and which ARE changing. > I don't think it should extend, however, to structure definitions. > > > The only exception is LKMs which should define KERNEL. > > I don't know who did this, (I see in the logs it was garrett) > > but the idea is simply to make it more obvios when you are > > doing the WRONG thing > > and including kernel private variables (that are subject to change, > > and not part of the API) . > > There is an API ? What do you want that struct for? > Darren > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 00:27:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11644 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:27:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kerouac.hepcat.org (cosmos@kerouac.hepcat.org [207.155.93.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11638 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:26:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cosmos@kerouac.hepcat.org) Received: (from cosmos@localhost) by kerouac.hepcat.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA09996 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:34:08 GMT Message-Id: <199710160034.AAA09996@kerouac.hepcat.org> Subject: modem on thinkpad? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:34:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel Leeds Reply-to: dleeds@dfacades.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk anyone know if i can use the internal built in modem on the ibm thinkpad 701cs with freebsd?? thanks! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 00:51:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA13244 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:51:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trifork.gu.net (trifork.gu.net [194.93.190.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA13220; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.gu.kiev.ua [127.0.0.1]) by trifork.gu.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA02686; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:51:21 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:51:21 +0300 (EEST) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: Brian Somers cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New PPP? (Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. In-Reply-To: <199710152249.XAA18481@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > Oops, one last thing. I haven't merged the MSChap changes into ppp > RELENG_2_2. It's definitely a new feature rather than a bug fix, but > it's non-obtrusive given that you have to enable it. > > Should I merge this Jordan ? Would this hurt release ? I vote for inclusion of the very modern and up-to-date PPP into 2.2.5. Let SLIP have some problems, but buggy PPP is a big minus. Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 00:53:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA13470 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:53:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trifork.gu.net (trifork.gu.net [194.93.190.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA13462; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:53:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.gu.kiev.ua [127.0.0.1]) by trifork.gu.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA02690; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:52:55 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:52:55 +0300 (EEST) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: Brian Somers cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New PPP? (Re: 8 days until 2.2.5... Administrative notices. In-Reply-To: <199710152353.AAA21271@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > Apart from MSChap (and the use of srandomdev() - damn, I really > meant to talk to Andrey about merging that), ppp in 2.2 is now > the same as ppp in -current. Thanks! Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 01:02:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA13995 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA13982 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0xLksc-0032P6C; Thu, 16 Oct 97 09:02 MET Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:53:17 +0200 (MET DST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Feb-8) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:45:16 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-Jul-4) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists In-Reply-To: from Howard Lew at "Oct 15, 97 08:10:57 pm" To: digital@www2.shoppersnet.com (Howard Lew) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:45:16 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howard Lew wrote: > It appears to me that some users subscribed to the freebsd mailing lists > are pulling email addresses from message writers here and then using > those email addresses to send junk email. This is true and this is not the first time and it happenes more and more. I'd vote to disable majordomos feature to send out the complete list of memebers, its useless for the normal user anyway. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk. And those who can't talk, talk about talking." (B. Shaw) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 02:22:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA18710 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA18705 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:22:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA21553; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19971016022216.62659@micron.mini.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:22:16 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: Mike Smith Cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd out-of-swap condition; ideas? References: <199710160114.SAA11661@implode.root.com> <199710160315.MAA00331@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199710160315.MAA00331@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 12:45:42PM +0930 X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Are those Linux processes using any system V shared memory? If so, it would account for the link if processes were loosing their keys and then creating new shared regions. It would also explain why the memory usage doesn't show up under ps. (I have had this problem before with Linux binaries) Mike Smith stands accused of saying: > > >At the time of that last ps listing, there were only about 40 procs in > > >the system total, with the display (40M) and the X server (~5M) being > > >the two largest. > > > > > >One other idea that had occurred to me; does the VSZ include the size > > >of the stack? > > > > Yes, but it doesn't include the space of any mmapped files. > > Damn. IDL wouldn't know what mmap() was if it jumped up and bit it. > It might be something to do with the Linux libc allocator, but I didn't > think gnumalloc was that chummy with the VM system. > > Mark Slemko sayeth: > > All I can say is that I see similar things on a news server running > > 2.2-stable from late August. > > > > In my case, it is a process (innfeed) that allocates and deallocates > > large amounts of memory (perhaps a couple of gigs) over its life > > of a couple of days. More and more swap gets used up with no visable > > process using it. Killing innfeed restores it. > > > > Note that when innfeed is killed, it goes through a graceful shutdown > > lasting several minutes. During that shutdown, it free()s memory > > as it finishes things. The swap space used decreases in a way that > > looks loosely proportional to the amount of memory being deallocated, > > but ~3x the amount. It is not a case where the swap only comes back > > when the process completely exits. > > Hmm, interesting. This looks *very* similar. It prettymuch rules out > the applications and libraries in both cases, as there's nothing in > common between the two. > > Is it possible that there's some way in which too much swap might > become attached to a given extent of a process' space? Is there any > way of examining the swap allocation for a given process? > > mike > > -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 03:16:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA20234 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:16:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA20215 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA00778; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710161015.DAA00778@rah.star-gate.com> To: Simon Shapiro cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I read RTF files? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:31:54 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:15:50 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Simon Shapiro : > Sorry if this the wrong place. > > I forgot how to do that :-( > > Used to have (on Linux?) an acrobat reader (or maybe two?) . Anything for > us here? > You can still use the linux acrobat reader, acroread, on freebsd. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 03:49:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA21184 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.yahoo.com (ns2.yahoo.com [205.216.162.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA21176 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:48:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from filo@yahoo.com) Received: (from filo@localhost) by ns2.yahoo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA27096; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710161048.DAA27096@ns2.yahoo.com> From: David Filo To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard Reply-To: filo@yahoo-inc.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The latest BIOS from Intel for their AL440LX board does not pass the drive number in %dl as biosboot/start.S assumes (instead %dl is set to 0). The end result is that you cannot boot from a harddrive if you're not using slices (a "Read error" occurs after the BIOS hands over control). Booting from floppy works fine and using slices with bteasy works as well. Forcing %dl to $0x80 (which is what bteasy appears to do) solves the problem for me. I assume the real solution is a bit more complex than this. I suppose this could be due to some weird BIOS setting, but I think I pretty much tried everything. This board will be popular, so would be nice to get this fixed. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 05:43:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA25897 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 05:43:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA25892 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 05:43:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@cyber.com.au) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA00879; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:40:46 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199710161240.WAA00879@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:40:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 15, 97 11:37:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > > > On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > > > In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > > > > > All the "_var.h" files contain variables who'se scope is within the > > > kernel only. > > > > Yup, I think that's a reasonable approach to take. > > > But these are structures that are not exported, and > which ARE changing. I don't see that as a reason for moving it into if_var.h > > I don't think it should extend, however, to structure definitions. > > > > > The only exception is LKMs which should define KERNEL. > > > I don't know who did this, (I see in the logs it was garrett) > > > but the idea is simply to make it more obvios when you are > > > doing the WRONG thing > > > and including kernel private variables (that are subject to change, > > > and not part of the API) . > > > > There is an API ? > What do you want that struct for? well, ifconfig, netstat, etc. all need it. if you're writing your own LKM for a network driver, you need it. if you're writing firewalling packet filtering code, you need it. "struct ifnet" is used in _lots_ of places. if you want to simulate kernel code, then you also need it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 06:01:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA27068 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:01:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (root@unix.tfs.net [199.79.146.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27062 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:01:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: from argus.tfs.net (node26.tfs.net [207.2.220.26]) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02179; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:00:56 -0500 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA06916; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:01:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199710161301.IAA06916@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: How do I read RTF files? In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Oct 15, 97 09:31:54 pm" To: Shimon@i-Connect.Net (Simon Shapiro) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:01:09 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > Sorry if this the wrong place. > > I forgot how to do that :-( > > Used to have (on Linux?) an acrobat reader (or maybe two?) . Anything for > us here? acrobat is pdf format... it is different. emacs supports RTF, but i'm not sure to what extent, as have only played with it twice in that mode. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 06:21:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA28077 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27894 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00261; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:39:04 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710161309.WAA00261@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jonathan Mini cc: Mike Smith , dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd out-of-swap condition; ideas? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:22:16 MST." <19971016022216.62659@micron.mini.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:39:02 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Are those Linux processes using any system V shared memory? If so, it would > account for the link if processes were loosing their keys and then creating > new shared regions. It would also explain why the memory usage doesn't show up > under ps. (I have had this problem before with Linux binaries) No. Also the total amount of shared memory is limited by the kernel configuration (the default is quite small), and AFAIK it lives in the kernel map. Note that Marc is seeing the same problem with a *BSD* binary. This problem is 100% reproducible; if anyone is interested in looking at the system while it's running I can arrange same with a day or so's notice. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 06:49:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA29722 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:49:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA29717 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:49:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26707; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jandrese.async.vt.edu (jandrese.async.vt.edu [128.173.19.77]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA24003; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:49:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jason Andresen X-Sender: jandrese@jandrese.async.vt.edu To: jbryant@tfs.net cc: Simon Shapiro , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I read RTF files? In-Reply-To: <199710161301.IAA06916@argus.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: ~~In reply: ~~> Sorry if this the wrong place. ~~> ~~> I forgot how to do that :-( ~~> ~~> Used to have (on Linux?) an acrobat reader (or maybe two?) . Anything for ~~> us here? ~~ ~~acrobat is pdf format... it is different. ~~ ~~emacs supports RTF, but i'm not sure to what extent, as have only ~~played with it twice in that mode. ~~ Apparently StarWriter supports RTF, however, I have never tested it. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::. . . . . ..:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: Jason Andresen :. . . . . . . . . : http://www.cslab.vt.edu/ :: :: jandrese@vt.edu :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:: ~jandrese/ O- :: :.........................: Quote of the day :..........................: Real programmers don't bring brown-bag lunches. If the vending machine doesn't sell it, they don't eat it. Vending machines don't sell quiche. :::::::::::.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.........................:.:.:.:.:.:.:.::::::::::: From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 07:23:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA01788 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:23:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01777 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA02830 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:22:55 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA00287; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:37:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971016083755.EY27853@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:37:55 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: damn, damn, damn ... getting confused here. References: <344476E5.31DFF4F5@wired.ctech.ac.za> <19971015203230.7404.qmail@scheme.xcf.berkeley.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <19971015203230.7404.qmail@scheme.xcf.berkeley.edu>; from Jason Alan Nordwick on Oct 15, 1997 20:32:30 -0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jason Alan Nordwick wrote: > > What is the difference between a device like > > /dev/vn0 and /dev/vn0c ?? > IT is a character device, rather than a block device. No, both are buffered (``block'') devices. Raw (``character'') device names conventionally start with an `r'. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 07:46:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA03011 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:46:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from vipunen.hut.fi (root@vipunen.hut.fi [130.233.224.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA03005 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:46:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tri@pooh.tky.hut.fi) Received: from pooh.tky.hut.fi (pooh.tky.hut.fi [130.233.23.135]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA225188 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:44:06 +0300 Received: by pooh.tky.hut.fi (RAA00896); Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:44:05 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:44:05 +0300 (EEST) Message-Id: <199710161444.RAA00896@pooh.tky.hut.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Timo J Rinne To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Thread-safe RPC library Reply-to: tri@iki.fi Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Espoo, Finland X-Face: 7N&%4=;/9+e`m7vVp3kmZ^FZ~;TBHua/@dBeFi*{xAoyz+8feePXCUmOK[GaY*0[QU`{lo *D3.D?xc>nBKUHDdXo)*OiG-MGf-a2dCZ5{yYMZV9:+H1h:%g$']XOPwUx{<5fH@l?+U8B Cr!lG(V:g=`_gdg86&u$/ez/jG_H3uU8!TB&ZuEz-BKqfBL3HGS@oA#,GsugP3o3.ckI- Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I wonder if anyone has given thought to implementing rpcsvc stuff so, that also server side of the Sun-RPC based system. What I want, is to be able to call svc_run() from several threads, so that several RPC-calls can be running concurrently. I think that this would not be too difficult, but then again, there might always be some dragon living in that code. Regards, //Rinne From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 08:05:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04132 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:05:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mailsrv2.zib.de (mailsrv2.zib.de [130.73.121.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04115 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:04:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schneider@zib.de) Received: from soft13.zib.de by mailsrv2.zib.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA26077; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:04:44 +0200 Received: by soft13.zib.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA07624; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:04:44 +0200 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:04:44 +0200 Message-Id: <199710161504.RAA07624@soft13.zib.de> From: Wolfram Schneider To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FYI: Experiments with Scripting and User-Interface Languages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/bwk/interps/pap.html Timing Trials, or, the Trials of Timing: Experiments with Scripting and User-Interface Languages (10/13/97) Brian W. Kernighan Bell Laboratories Murray Hill, NJ 07974 bwk@bell-labs.com Christopher J. Van Wyk Department of Mathematics and Computer Science Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 cvanwyk@drew.edu ABSTRACT This paper describes some basic experiments to see how fast various popular scripting and user-interface languages run on a spectrum of representative tasks. We found enormous variation in performance, depending on many factors, some uncontrollable and even unknowable. There seems to be little hope of predicting performance other than in the most general way; if there is a single clear conclusion, it is that no benchmark result should ever be taken at face value. [...] From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 08:16:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04606 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:16:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (wired.ctech.ac.za [155.238.4.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04584; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wired.ctech.ac.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13055; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:16:27 +0200 (SAT) Message-ID: <34462FCA.41C67EA6@wired.ctech.ac.za> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:16:27 +0200 From: Jacques Hugo X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: vmstat: kvm_openfiles: Cannot allocate memory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ... Guess the subject says it all. My setup is a P54C 120MHz with 64MB RAM running 2.2.1-RELEASE. Every now and again I get vmstat: kvm_openfiles: Cannot allocate memory Does this have something to do with the MAX_USERS setting in the kernel src? Why does this box 'run' out of memmory? Thanks -Jacques ------------------------------------------------------ The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" ... so I got BSD System Administrator | Jacques Hugo UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 ------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 08:27:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA05261 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:27:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05254 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA26886 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:27:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "David E. Cross" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: damn, damn, damn ... getting confused here. In-Reply-To: <19971016083755.EY27853@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Jason Alan Nordwick wrote: > > > > What is the difference between a device like > > > /dev/vn0 and /dev/vn0c ?? > > > IT is a character device, rather than a block device. > > No, both are buffered (``block'') devices. Raw (``character'') device > names conventionally start with an `r'. While we are on the subject... what is the difference between: /dev/wcd0a /dev/wcd0c -- David Cross ACS Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 09:10:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07842 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07834 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19288 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd019286; Thu Oct 16 16:08:16 1997 Message-ID: <34463BA0.15FB7483@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:06:56 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: bind() and broadcast packets... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Should a socket that is bound to a particular interface address still receive broadcast packets? Should it just receive broadcast packets with a network part equal to the network on that interface? should it not receive those packets at all? arguments: CON: If you allow reception of broadcasts, there is no way to block them if you don't you can always receive them on another socket. PRO: If you are trying to simulate running on a machine with only 1 interface, when you have several, then you need to bind your socket to the interface you want, and you want it to get the broadcasts just like it would if you were running in th non bound case. (e.g. SAMBA on one interface). who is authoratative on this? Mike Karels? stevens? I can't find it in the docs.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 09:50:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA09878 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09869 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:50:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ljo@Venus.mcs.net) Received: from Venus.mcs.net (ljo@Venus.mcs.net [192.160.127.92]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA22324; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:50:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from ljo@localhost) by Venus.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id LAA12172; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:50:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Lars Jonas Olsson Message-Id: <199710161650.LAA12172@Venus.mcs.net> Subject: de fails in 2.2.5-971007-BETA To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:50:52 -0500 (CDT) Cc: ljo@mcs.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When trying to install from 2.2.5-97115-BETA I get the following messages in the shell console: ... de0: autosense failed: cable problem? ... de0: enabling 100BaseTX port The last sysinstall message is: Adding default route to 10.0.0.15 At this point the installation hangs. The system is: DLink 500TX ethernet card on IRQ 11 Adaptec 2940 ultra IRQ 11 (no BIOS options for avoiding the IRQ conflict) AST Bravo MS-T 5166 (HX chipset, Pentium 166) Seagate IDE HD 2 pc. Quantum FireBall ST 6.4GB SCSI The ethernet card works fine with 2.2.5-971007-BETA. Using 2.2.5-971007-BETA I get fatal trap 12 when doing make world. I'm now installing 2.2.2 to test if hardware is OK. Jonas From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 11:21:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15286 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:21:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15279 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA14556; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:21:07 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA01746; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:17:19 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971016201719.RI62518@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:17:19 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) Subject: Re: damn, damn, damn ... getting confused here. References: <19971016083755.EY27853@uriah.heep.sax.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from David E. Cross on Oct 16, 1997 11:27:16 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David E. Cross wrote: > While we are on the subject... what is the difference between: > /dev/wcd0a > /dev/wcd0c There are only internal differences: the `c' partition is faked at some generic level, while the `a' partition is made the same via a dummy internal disklabel. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 11:26:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15717 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:26:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from arg1.demon.co.uk (arg1.demon.co.uk [194.222.34.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15711 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:26:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arg@arg1.demon.co.uk) Received: (from arg@localhost) by arg1.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21722; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:29:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:29:47 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Gordon X-Sender: arg@server.arg.sj.co.uk cc: Simon Shapiro , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How do I read RTF files? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Jason Andresen wrote: > On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > > ~~In reply: > ~~> Sorry if this the wrong place. > ~~> > ~~> I forgot how to do that :-( > ~~> > ~~> Used to have (on Linux?) an acrobat reader (or maybe two?) . Anything for > ~~> us here? > ~~ > ~~acrobat is pdf format... it is different. > ~~ > ~~emacs supports RTF, but i'm not sure to what extent, as have only > ~~played with it twice in that mode. > ~~ > Apparently StarWriter supports RTF, however, I have never tested it. StarWriter does appear to do a reasonable job. However, the short answer is that there is _no_ product on _any_ platform that does a reliable job of rendering RTF. RTF is not compatible even between minor revisions of the same Microsoft product. A year or two ago, ISO/IEC decreed that certain committees should exchange committee documents (draft standards etc). in RTF format (to add insult to injury, one of the committees concerned is that responsible for SGML). This has been a complete disaster: sometimes the documents are completely unreadable, but more often a much more insidious corruption occurs, deleting paragraphs or sentences and leaving the document otherwise readable. PDF is much better. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 11:51:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17617 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:51:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17607 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA24920 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:51:19 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA01851; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:27:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971016202708.DY50441@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:27:08 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I read RTF files? References: <199710161301.IAA06916@argus.tfs.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Jason Andresen on Oct 16, 1997 09:49:38 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jason Andresen wrote: > Apparently StarWriter supports RTF, however, I have never tested it. ...as well as ApplixWare. There's an rtf2latex tool, but it fails to parse what most RTF generators emit. It seems to be able to parse ApplixWare's RTF ;), but that's probably not much useful in Simon's case. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 11:51:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17665 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:51:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17653; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA24966; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:51:26 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA01957; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:43:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971016204314.CR50777@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:43:14 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: archer@lucky.net (Alexander Litvin), freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/4152 [Was 8 days until 2.2.5...] References: <3471.876678779@time.cdrom.com> <199710132138.AAA09675@grape.carrier.kiev.ua> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199710132138.AAA09675@grape.carrier.kiev.ua>; from Alexander Litvin on Oct 14, 1997 00:38:48 +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Alexander Litvin wrote: > Is "KERN_VNODE: No such file or directory" going to be in 2.2.5-RELEASE? ;) It seems so, it was a deliberate decision. That's the log entry for sys/kern/vfs_subr.c: revision 1.87 date: 1997/06/10 02:48:08; author: davidg; state: Exp; lines: +8 -1 Disabled the kern.vnode sysctl variable. It's causing system crashes on large systems and needs to be re-thinked or removed wholesale. So we might set the PR's status to `analyzed', without anybody in sight to fix it anytime soon. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 17:00:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02963 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:00:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA02943 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:00:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@cyber.com.au) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA22494; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:00:22 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199710170000.KAA22494@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:00:19 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 15, 97 11:37:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > > > In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > > > > > All the "_var.h" files contain variables who'se scope is within the > > > kernel only. > > > > Yup, I think that's a reasonable approach to take. > > > But these are structures that are not exported, and > which ARE changing. > > > I don't think it should extend, however, to structure definitions. > > > > > The only exception is LKMs which should define KERNEL. > > > I don't know who did this, (I see in the logs it was garrett) > > > but the idea is simply to make it more obvios when you are > > > doing the WRONG thing > > > and including kernel private variables (that are subject to change, > > > and not part of the API) . Well, I just had a look at net/if.h & net/if_var.h for -current and it appears as if someone has really created a good ol' mess in there. (Sort of inline with what the rumour mill is saying about FreeBSD networking code...) In if.h, "struct ifnet" is gone, but if_var.h is included if KERNEL is defined. However, all the #define's for the if_flags are still in if.h. If someone feels the need to change something, please ensure that the structs from if_var.h get into if.h by if if.h is included, no matter what. Cripes, not even Solaris2 is this brain dead. In the new inet include directory, they have a similar sort of thing, but they did it right. Some files contain just extern's whilst others contain structures and externs. Might I suggest that this is the way to go ? Structures defined in .h files, whilst maybe used in the kernel, are not always used only in that fashion. If there are changes made to them, then it should not harm user code if dependencies can be correctly determined. Putting things into different .h files doesn't stop people from using what you think are "kernel private" in other ways, it just makes them angry and annoyed that something has changed (for no good reason) and they now must deal with it. If something like the name for "loif" had moved and changed, then you'd be quite right with the assertion of it being "kernel private", etc. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 17:09:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03571 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:09:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from intercore.com (num1sun.intercore.com [199.181.243.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03563 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:09:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robin@intercore.com) Received: (robin@localhost) by intercore.com (8.7.1/8.6.4) id UAA20795; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19971016200622.22004@num1sun.intercore.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:06:22 -0400 From: Robin Cutshaw To: Lars Jonas Olsson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de fails in 2.2.5-971007-BETA References: <199710161650.LAA12172@Venus.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199710161650.LAA12172@Venus.mcs.net>; from Lars Jonas Olsson on Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 11:50:52AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 11:50:52AM -0500, Lars Jonas Olsson wrote: > When trying to install from 2.2.5-97115-BETA I get the following > messages in the shell console: > > ... > de0: autosense failed: cable problem? > ... > de0: enabling 100BaseTX port > I've got a DE500-XA (21140) card and the de driver fails to sense 100 Mb/s mode. Forcing with link2 doesn't help. This is with 2.2.5-971015-BETA also. 2.2.1 works fine. robin -- ---- Robin Cutshaw internet: robin@interlabs.com robin@intercore.com Internet Labs, Inc. BellNet: 404-817-9787 robin@XFree86.Org "Time is just one damn thing after another" -- PBS/Nova ---- -- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 17:10:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03694 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:10:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03668 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:10:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA04446 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd004443; Fri Oct 17 00:06:19 1997 Message-ID: <3446ABAB.284797A9@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:04:59 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: GLOBAL and www.freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk what are the chances of there being an nightly build of a GLOBAL HTML tree (i.e. as produced by htags) for -current and -stable on those machines. that would be a good way for people to explore the sources I guess there are 3 dimensions to it all time, and a 2D global tree. cvsweb is good for the time aspect, once you know what file you are looking for, but 'global' is awesome in finding that file in the first place. (I wish it did structures though) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 17:14:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04139 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04120 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:14:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02473; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:41:11 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710170011.JAA02473@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: filo@yahoo-inc.com cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 03:48:28 MST." <199710161048.DAA27096@ns2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:41:09 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The latest BIOS from Intel for their AL440LX board does not pass the > drive number in %dl as biosboot/start.S assumes (instead %dl is set to > 0). The end result is that you cannot boot from a harddrive if you're > not using slices (a "Read error" occurs after the BIOS hands over > control). Booting from floppy works fine and using slices with bteasy > works as well. Unpleasant. How are you supposed to differentiate between booting from a harddisk (0x8?) and a floppy (0x0?) ? > Forcing %dl to $0x80 (which is what bteasy appears to do) solves the > problem for me. I assume the real solution is a bit more complex than > this. I suppose this could be due to some weird BIOS setting, but I > think I pretty much tried everything. This board will be popular, so > would be nice to get this fixed. Unless Intel are angling for compatability with some other standard, I think the correct fix will be a BIOS upgrade. If they are, it'd be handy to know which one, so that we can detect and support it. Forcing %dl to 0x80 obviously breaks using the same start.s for both harddisk and floppy booting. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 17:30:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05150 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05143 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA04931 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd004927; Fri Oct 17 00:22:51 1997 Message-ID: <3446AF8A.2C67412E@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:21:30 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: make world in 2.2.5(*) fails on 2.2.2 release (from CD) machine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk procedure.. install 2.2.2 from cd on virgin machine. check out /usr/src using CVS with tag RELENG_2_2 cd /usr/src make world make world fails in make includes trying to make osreldate.h This has been broken for about 1 year now but I always blamed 'residual cruft' I never tried it on a virgin machine till today julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 17:30:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05214 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:30:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05209 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:30:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA05115; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd005102; Fri Oct 17 00:30:02 1997 Message-ID: <3446B138.42877E5C@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:28:40 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Reed CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) References: <199710170000.KAA22494@plum.cyber.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Darren Reed wrote: > Well, I just had a look at net/if.h & net/if_var.h for -current and it > appears as if someone has really created a good ol' mess in there. > (Sort of inline with what the rumour mill is saying about FreeBSD > networking code...) ah fightin' words ;-) I'm bowing out, Iagree there's a mess there, but hopefully it's because it's in transition. > > In if.h, "struct ifnet" is gone, but if_var.h is included if KERNEL is > defined. However, all the #define's for the if_flags are still in if.h. I think that's because they are needed externally. the flags word is passed around independantly of the ifnet. (e.g. through the API) > If someone feels the need to change something, please ensure that the > structs from if_var.h get into if.h by if if.h is included, no matter > what. > > Cripes, not even Solaris2 is this brain dead. In the new inet include > directory, they have a similar sort of thing, but they did it right. > Some files contain just extern's whilst others contain structures and > externs. > > Might I suggest that this is the way to go ? I point the finger directly at garrett. If he says so it can happen. > > Structures defined in .h files, whilst maybe used in the kernel, are > not always used only in that fashion. If there are changes made to > them, then it should not harm user code if dependencies can be > correctly determined. we are trying to remove all extrernal references to such structures. > > Putting things into different .h files doesn't stop people from using > what you think are "kernel private" in other ways, it just makes them > angry and annoyed that something has changed (for no good reason) and > they now must deal with it. If something like the name for "loif" had > moved and changed, then you'd be quite right with the assertion of it > being "kernel private", etc. I think the problem is that you are seeing a half finished transition. But I understand your frustration. > > Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 17:37:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05711 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:37:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05700 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:37:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@cyber.com.au) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA24115; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:37:06 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199710170037.KAA24115@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:37:03 +1000 (EST) Cc: darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3446B138.42877E5C@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 16, 97 05:28:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > > In if.h, "struct ifnet" is gone, but if_var.h is included if KERNEL is > > defined. However, all the #define's for the if_flags are still in if.h. > I think that's because they are needed externally. > the flags word is passed around independantly of the > ifnet. (e.g. through the API) okay, this is the second time you're referred to the API. Where can it be found ? Who is responsible for it ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 17:44:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06071 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06062 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:44:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA03180; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:44:23 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199710170044.BAA03180@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GLOBAL and www.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:04:59 PDT." <3446ABAB.284797A9@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:44:23 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > what are the chances of there being an nightly build of a GLOBAL HTML > tree (i.e. as produced by htags) for -current and -stable > on those machines. that would be a good way for people to explore the > sources Heh, what's "nightly" :-) I'd say this sort of thing is good, but weekly should suffice. > julian -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 18:01:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06933 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06927 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:01:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA05868; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd005864; Fri Oct 17 00:59:27 1997 Message-ID: <3446B81E.4DAA423A@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:58:06 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Reed CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) References: <199710170037.KAA24115@plum.cyber.com.au> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6F5992E1773C244864880EEB" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6F5992E1773C244864880EEB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darren Reed wrote: > > In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > > > > In if.h, "struct ifnet" is gone, but if_var.h is included if KERNEL is > > > defined. However, all the #define's for the if_flags are still in if.h. > > I think that's because they are needed externally. > > the flags word is passed around independantly of the > > ifnet. (e.g. through the API) > > okay, this is the second time you're referred to the API. > > Where can it be found ? Who is responsible for it ? It's a slow thing. Just a general consencus that lookingin the kernel vm for information is notthe way to go in general. That's why I asked what you needed to look at or change? take ifconfig for example. it doesn't access the ifnet structure at all. Netstat still does, but that is hoped to go away as we make more API methods to allow this to be changed. the aim is to stop anything from needing to do 'kread()' calls to get status. I enclose a little program that dumps out all the interface addresses and flags without reading the kernel. I find it very hard to believe you don't know about this.. as I know you are very knowledgeable on the networking, and I guess we are somehow talking on cross purposes (porpoises?). julian --------------6F5992E1773C244864880EEB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="dumpifs.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="dumpifs.c" #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include void showbytes(unsigned char *cptr,int len) { int i,j; for (j = 0 ;len > 0 ;j++) { for ( i = 0; i < 16; i++) { printf("0x%x ",*cptr++); if (--len == 0) break; } printf("\n"); } } void print_sa (struct sockaddr *sap) { char buf[128]; printf("len=%d,",sap->sa_len); switch(sap->sa_family) { case AF_LINK: printf(" family=LINK\n"); { char *cptr; struct sockaddr_dl *sdl = (struct sockaddr_dl *)sap; cptr = sdl->sdl_data; printf("index=%u, type=%u ", sdl->sdl_index, sdl->sdl_type); printf("nlen=%u, alen=%u, slen=%u\n", sdl->sdl_nlen, sdl->sdl_alen, sdl->sdl_slen); if(sdl->sdl_nlen) { bcopy(cptr,buf,sdl->sdl_nlen); buf[sdl->sdl_nlen] = 0; printf(" name = %s\n",buf); cptr += sdl->sdl_nlen; } if(sdl->sdl_alen) { printf(" address = "); showbytes(cptr,sdl->sdl_alen); cptr += sdl->sdl_alen; } if(sdl->sdl_slen) { printf(" selector = "); showbytes(cptr,sdl->sdl_slen); cptr += sdl->sdl_slen; } } break; case AF_INET: printf(" family=INET\n"); printf("[%s]", inet_ntoa(((struct sockaddr_in *)sap)->sin_addr)); printf(".%hu\n",((struct sockaddr_in *)sap)->sin_port); break; default: printf(" family=%d\n",sap->sa_family); showbytes(sap->sa_data,sap->sa_len-2); } } /* * Get the configuration from the kernel. Only called if there's no * configuration. */ void getifconf( void ) { struct ifconf ifc; struct ifreq ifrs[ 64 ], *ifr, *nextifr; struct interface *iface, *niface; int s; struct sockaddr *sa_p; int ifrsize = 0; bzero(&ifc,sizeof(struct ifconf)); bzero(ifrs,sizeof(struct ifreq) * 64); if (( s = socket( AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, 0 )) < 0 ) { perror( "socket" ); exit( 1 ); } ifc.ifc_len = sizeof( ifrs ); ifc.ifc_buf = (caddr_t)ifrs; if ( ioctl( s, SIOCGIFCONF, &ifc ) < 0 ) { perror( "getifconf" ); exit( 1 ); } for ( ifr = ifc.ifc_req; ifc.ifc_len >= sizeof( struct ifreq ); ifr = nextifr, ifc.ifc_len -= ifrsize) { /* * in BSD4.4, this returns an entry for every address * Associated with the if. including physical.. they * include a sockaddr which is VARIABLE LENGTH! * * Calculate the length of this entry. */ sa_p = &(ifr->ifr_addr); print_sa(&(ifr->ifr_addr)); /* print_sa(&(ifr->ifr_dstaddr)); print_sa(&(ifr->ifr_broadaddr)); */ ifrsize = IFNAMSIZ + sa_p->sa_len; nextifr = (struct ifreq *)((caddr_t)ifr + ifrsize); /* * Now get it's flags */ if ( ioctl( s, SIOCGIFFLAGS, ifr ) < 0 ) { perror( ifr->ifr_name ); exit( 1 ); } printf("FLAGS = 0x%x\n",(unsigned short)ifr->ifr_flags); printf("\n"); } if ( ifc.ifc_len != 0 ) { fprintf( stderr, "Funky gifconf return.\n" ); exit( 1 ); } (void)close( s ); return; } main() { getifconf(); exit(0); } --------------6F5992E1773C244864880EEB-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 18:20:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07739 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07731 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA06184 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd006179; Fri Oct 17 01:11:39 1997 Message-ID: <3446BAFA.5656AEC7@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:10:18 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make world in 2.2.5(*) fails on 2.2.2 release (from CD) machine References: <3446AF8A.2C67412E@whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK I found qhat it is.. Jordan did a 'hack' on newvers.sh for th erelease, so when you upgrade, you get a CVS conflict. As 2.2.2 is out hte door there is nothing we can do about this. I assume, Jordan that when you take the 2.2.5 snapshot, you'll temporarily check in a version of newvers.sh that says 2.2.5? so that it is not a 'modified' file in the tree? sorry for the alarm, but with 4 days to go I though it was a bad thing to happen. (I'm trying to build a fresh 2.2.5(*) tree to test the appletalk problem) julian Julian Elischer wrote: > > procedure.. > install 2.2.2 from cd on virgin machine. > > check out /usr/src using CVS with tag RELENG_2_2 > cd /usr/src > make world > > make world fails in make includes > trying to make osreldate.h > > This has been broken for about 1 year now but I always > blamed 'residual cruft' > I never tried it on a virgin machine till today > > julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 18:36:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08536 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:36:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08530 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01872; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:36:51 -0700 (PDT) To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GLOBAL and www.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:04:59 PDT." <3446ABAB.284797A9@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:36:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1869.877052210@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > what are the chances of there being an nightly build of a GLOBAL HTML > tree (i.e. as produced by htags) for -current and -stable > on those machines. that would be a good way for people to explore the > sources Hey, go for it and let us know where to find the URL when you've got it up. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 18:41:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08751 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08739 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:41:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07757; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:40:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:40:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Hellmuth Michaelis cc: Howard Lew , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > Howard Lew wrote: > > > It appears to me that some users subscribed to the freebsd mailing lists > > are pulling email addresses from message writers here and then using > > those email addresses to send junk email. > > This is true and this is not the first time and it happenes more and more. > > I'd vote to disable majordomos feature to send out the complete list of > memebers, its useless for the normal user anyway. Would be a good idea, but they appear to be getting the addresses from the people who send in questions/replys, instead of grabbing a list of everyone on it. The only solution that is failsafe is, stop using the lists. And we all know how viable that is. Grin, bear it, and send fork() bombs. > > hellmuth > -- > Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe > "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk. > And those who can't talk, talk about talking." (B. Shaw) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 19:00:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09985 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA09974 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@cyber.com.au) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA27628; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:00:25 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199710170200.MAA27628@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:00:24 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3446B81E.4DAA423A@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 16, 97 05:58:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Julian Elischer, sie wrote > > > okay, this is the second time you're referred to the API. > > > > Where can it be found ? Who is responsible for it ? > > > It's a slow thing. Just a general consencus that lookingin the kernel vm > for information is notthe way to go in general. Granted. > Netstat still does, but that is hoped to go away as we make > more API methods to allow this to be changed. I can see creaping featurisms here...I'd like to see the API designed first, with it reviewed before people start making ad-hoc changes which are "generally in line with our goals". > the aim is to stop anything from needing to do 'kread()' calls > to get status. Hmmm...see below. > I enclose a little program that dumps out all the > interface addresses and flags without reading the kernel. > > I find it very hard to believe you don't know about this.. as I > know you are very knowledgeable on the networking, and I guess we > are somehow talking on cross purposes (porpoises?). [...] I've seen that ioctl used before...it's not one of my favourites, that's for sure! If I have 256 interfaces, the program you posted breaks. Maybe there should be a sysctl which returns the number of interfaces available, so you can correctly size the ioctl ? (of course this means a variable which has this stored). Of course, to correctly size the ioctl, you could walk the kernel list first ;) This is sort of what I'm getting at with API design. There's an interface present, but using it isn't 100% safe to use. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 19:14:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10541 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:14:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.yahoo.com (ns2.yahoo.com [205.216.162.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10535 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:14:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from filo@yahoo.com) Received: (from filo@localhost) by ns2.yahoo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA22643; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710170212.TAA22643@ns2.yahoo.com> From: David Filo To: mike@smith.net.au CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199710170011.JAA02473@word.smith.net.au> (message from Mike Smith on Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:41:09 +0930) Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard Reply-To: filo@yahoo.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The latest BIOS from Intel for their AL440LX board does not pass the > > drive number in %dl as biosboot/start.S assumes (instead %dl is set to > > 0). The end result is that you cannot boot from a harddrive if you're > > not using slices (a "Read error" occurs after the BIOS hands over > > control). Booting from floppy works fine and using slices with bteasy > > works as well. > > Unpleasant. How are you supposed to differentiate between booting from > a harddisk (0x8?) and a floppy (0x0?) ? > you know you're booting from harddisk because that's where the code comes from. the mbr on harddisk assumes it's a harddisk boot. the mbr on floppy assumes it's a floppy boot. > > Forcing %dl to $0x80 (which is what bteasy appears to do) solves the > > problem for me. I assume the real solution is a bit more complex than > > this. I suppose this could be due to some weird BIOS setting, but I > > think I pretty much tried everything. This board will be popular, so > > would be nice to get this fixed. > > Unless Intel are angling for compatability with some other standard, I > think the correct fix will be a BIOS upgrade. If they are, it'd be > handy to know which one, so that we can detect and support it. > > Forcing %dl to 0x80 obviously breaks using the same start.s for both > harddisk and floppy booting. > yep. but doesn't seem like that big a deal to have separate versions. btw, bteasy can deal with %dl not properly set. the first thing it does is check for (%dl == 0x81). if this fails it sets %dl to 0x80. should this solution be used in startup.S as well? in our setup i don't think 0x81 is even possible (how would you get a boot1 from any disk other than scsi id 0?). so doesn't seem too bad to have boot1 on sd0 forced to 0x80. david From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 19:26:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11126 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11112 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:26:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA18622; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:55:54 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19971017115554.47636@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:55:54 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Cc: Hellmuth Michaelis , Howard Lew , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew D. Fuller on Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 08:40:46PM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 08:40:46PM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > >> Howard Lew wrote: >> >>> It appears to me that some users subscribed to the freebsd mailing lists >>> are pulling email addresses from message writers here and then using >>> those email addresses to send junk email. >> >> This is true and this is not the first time and it happenes more and more. >> >> I'd vote to disable majordomos feature to send out the complete list of >> memebers, its useless for the normal user anyway. > Would be a good idea, but they appear to be getting the addresses from the > people who send in questions/replys, instead of grabbing a list of > everyone on it. The only solution that is failsafe is, stop using the > lists. > And we all know how viable that is. Grin, bear it, and send fork() bombs. Grin. Bear it. Don't send bombs. Is this person still on the distribution list? Maybe we should form an acceptable use policy. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 19:41:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA12216 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [198.180.136.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12204 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:41:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langfod@caliban.dihelix.com) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.7/8.8.3) id QAA10375; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:40:27 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199710170240.QAA10375@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists In-Reply-To: from "Matthew D. Fuller" at "Oct 16, 97 08:40:46 pm" To: fullermd@futuresouth.com (Matthew D. Fuller) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:40:27 -1000 (HST) Cc: hm@kts.org, digital@www2.shoppersnet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Howard Lew wrote: >> >> > It appears to me that some users subscribed to the freebsd mailing lists >> > are pulling email addresses from message writers here and then using >> > those email addresses to send junk email. >> >> This is true and this is not the first time and it happenes more and more. >> >> I'd vote to disable majordomos feature to send out the complete list of >> memebers, its useless for the normal user anyway. >Would be a good idea, but they appear to be getting the addresses from the >people who send in questions/replys, instead of grabbing a list of >everyone on it. The only solution that is failsafe is, stop using the >lists. >And we all know how viable that is. Grin, bear it, and send fork() bombs. Um I take it you havent tried "which com" as a majordomo command recently :) -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 19:47:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA12528 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:47:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sparks.net (exim@gw.sparks.net [204.248.143.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA12519 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:47:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@sparks.net) Received: from david by sparks.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #5) id 0xM2RI-0001MF-00; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:47:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:46:58 -0400 (EDT) From: To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 21140 version E In-Reply-To: <16821.876764087@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I just got a bunch of new znyx muliport fast ethernet cards based on DEC's > > 21140A chip. I have an older rev C board which works fine. But the newer > > rev E's don't:( The Rev E boards appear fine in the boot process, but > > come up with: > > Have you tried this with 2.2-stable or 3.0-current? I believe they > should work now, but you'll need to upgrade if you're not running with > the de driver from either of those two branches. I got it working with the latest driver from Matt Thomas. In retrospect, the problem was likely not the rev E 21140. Somewhere in between the purchase of the two boards Znyx changed the phy chip, whatever that is:) The 2.2.2R driver recognized the 21140 OK, but choked on the new phy chip. Thanks for the help:) --- David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's *amazing* what one can accomplish when one doesn't know what one can't do! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 19:54:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA12909 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:54:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12902 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:53:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00310; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:20:24 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710170250.MAA00310@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: filo@yahoo.com cc: mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:12:19 MST." <199710170212.TAA22643@ns2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:20:23 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > The latest BIOS from Intel for their AL440LX board does not pass the > > > drive number in %dl as biosboot/start.S assumes (instead %dl is set to > > > 0). The end result is that you cannot boot from a harddrive if you're > > > not using slices (a "Read error" occurs after the BIOS hands over > > > control). Booting from floppy works fine and using slices with bteasy > > > works as well. > > > > Unpleasant. How are you supposed to differentiate between booting from > > a harddisk (0x8?) and a floppy (0x0?) ? > > > > you know you're booting from harddisk because that's where the code > comes from. the mbr on harddisk assumes it's a harddisk boot. the > mbr on floppy assumes it's a floppy boot. There isn't an MBR on a floppy, and in the dedicated-disk case the first sector on both a harddisk and floppy are identical. There is only one BIOS bootrap. > > > Forcing %dl to $0x80 (which is what bteasy appears to do) solves the > > > problem for me. I assume the real solution is a bit more complex than > > > this. I suppose this could be due to some weird BIOS setting, but I > > > think I pretty much tried everything. This board will be popular, so > > > would be nice to get this fixed. > > > > Unless Intel are angling for compatability with some other standard, I > > think the correct fix will be a BIOS upgrade. If they are, it'd be > > handy to know which one, so that we can detect and support it. > > > > Forcing %dl to 0x80 obviously breaks using the same start.s for both > > harddisk and floppy booting. > > > > yep. but doesn't seem like that big a deal to have separate versions. It's a moderately big deal; it changes something that's been as it is now for quite a long time. You could argue conversely that it would be a good thing in that it would allow the two separate bootstraps to shrink a little. > btw, bteasy can deal with %dl not properly set. the first thing it > does is check for (%dl == 0x81). if this fails it sets %dl to 0x80. > should this solution be used in startup.S as well? No. bteasy is only ever installed on harddisks, and it is broken in that it only supports booting from the first two BIOS fixed disks, ie. if disk unit != 2, it must be 1. > in our setup i don't think 0x81 is even possible (how would you get a > boot1 from any disk other than scsi id 0?). so doesn't seem too bad > to have boot1 on sd0 forced to 0x80. Now you are proposing _three_ BIOS bootstraps; one for floppy, one for harddisk in dedicated mode and a third for harddisk in slice mode. The most correct solution is to find out how, with this new Intel board, you can differentiate between booting from a floppy and booting from harddisk. I appreciate that we're a little short for time here, so we may want to go with the fastest hack that works. 8) mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 19:58:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA13250 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:58:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA13224 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65/AndrewR-930902) id AA10719; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:28:42 +0930 From: Kristian Kennaway Received: by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA10754; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:28:41 +0930 Message-Id: <9710170258.AA10754@bragg> Subject: Re: How do I read RTF files? To: Shimon@i-Connect.Net (Simon Shapiro) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:28:41 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Oct 15, 97 09:31:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Sorry if this the wrong place. > > I forgot how to do that :-( > > Used to have (on Linux?) an acrobat reader (or maybe two?) . Anything for > us here? Theres a rtf2latex port, which might help you - StarOffice might also do it, but I cant get the frigging thing to start right now or I'd confirm it Kris From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 20:13:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14177 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:13:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14167 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:13:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00386; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:40:10 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710170310.MAA00386@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: filo@yahoo.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:12:19 MST." <199710170212.TAA22643@ns2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:40:08 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Forcing %dl to $0x80 (which is what bteasy appears to do) solves the > > > problem for me. I assume the real solution is a bit more complex than > > > this. I suppose this could be due to some weird BIOS setting, but I > > > think I pretty much tried everything. This board will be popular, so > > > would be nice to get this fixed. > > > > Unless Intel are angling for compatability with some other standard, I > > think the correct fix will be a BIOS upgrade. If they are, it'd be > > handy to know which one, so that we can detect and support it. I should point out that, having just checked, their practice of passing 0 in %dl to the bootstrap is in direct violation of the BIOS Boot Specification version 1.01, 11 Jan 1997. Quoting: D.1 Use DL for Drive Number Use the drive number passed in the DL register by the BIOS when control is transferred to the boot sector for INT 13h access to load the O/S, instead of having the drive number hard-coded. ... (http://www.ptltd.com/desktop/bbs101.pdf) Do you have any idea who is responsible for this BIOS? (ie. is it an Intel in-house job, or a third party like Phoenix or Award?) mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 20:16:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14384 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA14379 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from ares.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa24795; 16 Oct 97 23:16 EDT Received: from stretch.cs.virginia.edu (atf3r@stretch-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.14]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06860 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from atf3r@localhost) by stretch.cs.virginia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA22384; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:16:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Rhapsody is 4.4BSD based!? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks, Has anyone else seen this? Aparently Apples next generation OS is 4.4BSD based. Do I smell a new emmulation to support? You can get the basics from the following PCmag URL: http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/news/trends/t971016a.htm I wonder which 4.4BSD they started with? It is reported to be multithreaded. I wonder if them mean kernel-multithreaded? Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualzation Lab -->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 20:19:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14481 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.yahoo.com (ns2.yahoo.com [205.216.162.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14474 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from filo@yahoo.com) Received: (from filo@localhost) by ns2.yahoo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA22876; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710170318.UAA22876@ns2.yahoo.com> From: David Filo To: mike@smith.net.au CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199710170310.MAA00386@word.smith.net.au> (message from Mike Smith on Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:40:08 +0930) Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard Reply-To: filo@yahoo.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > Forcing %dl to $0x80 (which is what bteasy appears to do) solves the > > > > problem for me. I assume the real solution is a bit more complex than > > > > this. I suppose this could be due to some weird BIOS setting, but I > > > > think I pretty much tried everything. This board will be popular, so > > > > would be nice to get this fixed. > > > > > > Unless Intel are angling for compatability with some other standard, I > > > think the correct fix will be a BIOS upgrade. If they are, it'd be > > > handy to know which one, so that we can detect and support it. > > I should point out that, having just checked, their practice of passing > 0 in %dl to the bootstrap is in direct violation of the BIOS Boot > Specification version 1.01, 11 Jan 1997. Quoting: > > > Do you have any idea who is responsible for this BIOS? (ie. is it an > Intel in-house job, or a third party like Phoenix or Award?) > it's a phoenix bios. of course it's possible that i'm just being stupid and there's an option somewhere that needs to be changed. still looking.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 20:23:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14784 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elwood.pionet.net (ELWOOD.pionet.net [199.120.116.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14777 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:23:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tysonb@pionet.net) Received: from moe.splarg.org (pm2-154.pionet.net [199.120.116.154]) by elwood.pionet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA12079 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:27:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971016222807.006c98a0@pionet.net> X-Sender: tysonb@pionet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:28:07 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Tyson Boellstorff Subject: re: de fails in 2.2.5-971007-BETA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk " When trying to install from 2.2.5-97115-BETA I get the following messages in the shell console: ... de0: autosense failed: cable problem? ... de0: enabling 100BaseTX port The last sysinstall message is: Adding default route to 10.0.0.15 At this point the installation hangs. The system is: DLink 500TX ethernet card on IRQ 11 Adaptec 2940 ultra IRQ 11 (no BIOS options for avoiding the IRQ conflict) AST Bravo MS-T 5166 (HX chipset, Pentium 166) Seagate IDE HD 2 pc. Quantum FireBall ST 6.4GB SCSI The ethernet card works fine with 2.2.5-971007-BETA. Using 2.2.5-971007-BETA I get fatal trap 12 when doing make world. I'm now installing 2.2.2 to test if hardware is OK." If you want to tinker with irq's, first check to see what PCI & legacy devices you have. Set your BIOS pnp to "Use setup or CMOS" (or whatever setting is NOT use ICU or pnp OS.) Set every legacy device's irq to used, or used by ISA or whatever (some may not have to have this reservation to work; leave those alone). You should be left with a few irq's. Make sure that any other IRQ's aren't reserved. (you can force several PCI devices onto one irq that way; I do it all the time.) (You need at least two available) Install the SCSI controller in the slot closest to the power supply, and boot until it passes POST. Power down, and install a different card in the slot next to it. It should get a different irq. Theoretically, they should assign in a logical order from the pool of free IRQ's in order from the power supply. Leaving blank slots in between cards and later installing a new card in between them may be a Bad Thing, if you have cards that do not like this treatment, as you will force the remaining IRQ's to be re-allocated. The new card will get the IRQ that the next card _used_ to have. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 20:42:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15720 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:42:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15713 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00494; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:09:21 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710170339.NAA00494@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: filo@yahoo.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:18:18 MST." <199710170318.UAA22876@ns2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:09:20 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I should point out that, having just checked, their practice of passing > > 0 in %dl to the bootstrap is in direct violation of the BIOS Boot > > Specification version 1.01, 11 Jan 1997. Quoting: ... > > Do you have any idea who is responsible for this BIOS? (ie. is it an > > Intel in-house job, or a third party like Phoenix or Award?) > > it's a phoenix bios. of course it's possible that i'm just being > stupid and there's an option somewhere that needs to be changed. > still looking.. I don't think so; I *honestly* can't think of any reason they would deliberately blow off a standard they co-authored. Are you booting from a SCSI disk? If so what controller? Do you have an IDE disk you can try booting from? I won't have my hands on one of those boards until mid-next week (this is an "Atlantic", correct?), and probably not for very long then. Jordan, can you perhaps work something like this into the RELNOTES for 2.2.5, in case we don't manage to track this one down: (Known bugs section maybe?) The Intel AL440LX "Atlantic" motherboard BIOS is incompatible with the FreeBSD bootstrap. To work around this, the boot disk MUST NOT be sliced using the "dedicated" mode, and the BootEasy boot manager MUST be installed. Symptoms of this problem are a system which attempts to access the floppy disk when booting from the hard disk, displaying an endless succession of C:0 H:0 S:0 error messages. David; can you confirm that last paragraph? I'm just guessing there. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 21:05:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17071 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:05:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17051 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from digital@www2.shoppersnet.com) Received: (from digital@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA22565; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:03:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: Hellmuth Michaelis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > > Howard Lew wrote: > > > > > It appears to me that some users subscribed to the freebsd mailing lists > > > are pulling email addresses from message writers here and then using > > > those email addresses to send junk email. > > > > This is true and this is not the first time and it happenes more and more. > > > > I'd vote to disable majordomos feature to send out the complete list of > > memebers, its useless for the normal user anyway. > Would be a good idea, but they appear to be getting the addresses from the > people who send in questions/replys, instead of grabbing a list of Yes, I think you are right. I have checked and they do seem to come from posts/replies -- not from being on the list. I guess there is no easy solution except for adding a nospam email address which is a big pain for anyone who wants to reply. > everyone on it. The only solution that is failsafe is, stop using the > lists. > And we all know how viable that is. Grin, bear it, and send fork() bombs. > > > > > > hellmuth > > -- > > Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe > > "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk. > > And those who can't talk, talk about talking." (B. Shaw) > > > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | > * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * > | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| > * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * > | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 21:37:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18807 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18802 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA23703; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:37:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA29916; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:37:18 -0500 (CDT) To: adrian@virginia.edu Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: Rhapsody is 4.4BSD based!? References: From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.89) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 16 Oct 1997 23:37:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin"'s message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:16:36 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: <8767qxc8ea.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 32 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.64/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" writes: > Has anyone else seen this? Aparently Apples next generation OS > is 4.4BSD based. Do I smell a new emmulation to support? > > You can get the basics from the following PCmag URL: > > http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/news/trends/t971016a.htm > > I wonder which 4.4BSD they started with? It is reported to be > multithreaded. I wonder if them mean kernel-multithreaded? > I'm not sure about the 4.4BSDedness. I think they really *mean* to say 4.3BSD updated with tools from 4.4BSD. The kernel is still mach 2.5 (like NeXTSTEP) with BSD emulation layer, and as such it is a very different beast than Free|Net|OpenBSD. Emulation? Well, the only emulation that would be interesting would be the OPENSTEP based GUI stuff. For that, see http://www.gnustep.org/--however Apple is likely to add features outside of the OPENSTEP spec, and I'm not sure what the future is of the OPENSTEP API itself. Presumably gnustep could try to clone the rhapsody interfaces (or at least all apps to run)... not sure how helpful apple will be with this, however. -- Steve Farrell From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 21:49:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19219 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:49:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19175 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from compton by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65/AndrewR-930902) id AA29173; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:16:55 +0930 From: Kristian Kennaway Received: by compton; (5.65/1.1.8.2/22May95-0130PM) id AA20901; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:16:52 +0930 Message-Id: <9710170446.AA20901@compton> Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists To: digital@www2.shoppersnet.com (Howard Lew) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:16:47 +0930 (CST) Cc: fullermd@futuresouth.com, hm@kts.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Howard Lew" at Oct 16, 97 09:03:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, I think you are right. I have checked and they do seem to come from > posts/replies -- not from being on the list. I guess there is no easy > solution except for adding a nospam email address which is a big pain for > anyone who wants to reply. > I'd just like to note that today I received my first ever spam-mail, after posting to this list for the first time a few days ago. Until now I've been successfully "hiding" by not having my email address make it out onto UseNet or anywhere else grepped by spammers. Oh well - all good things much come to an end, as they say :-) Kris From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 22:13:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20188 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:13:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.yahoo.com (ns2.yahoo.com [205.216.162.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20183 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from filo@yahoo.com) Received: (from filo@localhost) by ns2.yahoo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA23150; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710170512.WAA23150@ns2.yahoo.com> From: David Filo To: mike@smith.net.au CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199710170339.NAA00494@word.smith.net.au> (message from Mike Smith on Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:09:20 +0930) Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard Reply-To: filo@yahoo.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I should point out that, having just checked, their practice of passing > > > 0 in %dl to the bootstrap is in direct violation of the BIOS Boot > > > Specification version 1.01, 11 Jan 1997. Quoting: > ... > > > Do you have any idea who is responsible for this BIOS? (ie. is it an > > > Intel in-house job, or a third party like Phoenix or Award?) > > > > it's a phoenix bios. of course it's possible that i'm just being > > stupid and there's an option somewhere that needs to be changed. > > still looking.. > > I don't think so; I *honestly* can't think of any reason they would > deliberately blow off a standard they co-authored. > yeah, it definitely looks like the bios is simply not setting %dl correctly. i've moved the disk between machines and it works fine in every other config with 0x80 getting passed in. it is clearly 0x00 on the al440lx board. > Are you booting from a SCSI disk? If so what controller? Do you have > an IDE disk you can try booting from? > tried several different 2940 cards. i just tired an ide disk with the same results (%dl == 0x00). > I won't have my hands on one of those boards until mid-next week (this > is an "Atlantic", correct?), and probably not for very long then. > yep, i think it's called "atlanta" > Jordan, can you perhaps work something like this into the RELNOTES for > 2.2.5, in case we don't manage to track this one down: > > (Known bugs section maybe?) > > The Intel AL440LX "Atlantic" motherboard BIOS is incompatible with the > FreeBSD bootstrap. To work around this, the boot disk MUST NOT be > sliced using the "dedicated" mode, and the BootEasy boot manager MUST > be installed. > > Symptoms of this problem are a system which attempts to access the > floppy disk when booting from the hard disk, displaying an endless > succession of > > C:0 H:0 S:0 > > error messages. > > David; can you confirm that last paragraph? I'm just guessing there. > actually you get a single "Read error" message. and this is with the latest bios 4A4LL0X0.86A.0013.P03 dated 10/02/97. btw, i ended up doing something similar to bteasy and made the following changes to start.S. diff -c -r1.1 -r1.3 *** start.S 1997/06/06 05:24:26 1.1 --- start.S 1997/10/17 02:41:29 1.3 *************** *** 102,112 **** /* set up %es, (where we will load boot2 to) */ mov %ax, %es /* bootstrap passes us drive number in %dl */ ! cmpb $0x80, %dl data32 jae hd fd: /* --- 103,120 ---- /* set up %es, (where we will load boot2 to) */ mov %ax, %es /* bootstrap passes us drive number in %dl */ ! cmpb $0x81, %dl data32 jae hd + + /* the above assumption is not always true, so let's force it. */ + /* needed for the al440lx board. don't see much harm in it. */ + /* this used to fall through to floppy, but we know this is */ + /* a hd boot, right? */ + movb $0x80, %dl + data32 + jmp hd fd: /* From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 22:36:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21432 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21370 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:35:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00955; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:02:48 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710170532.PAA00955@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: filo@yahoo.com cc: mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:12:16 MST." <199710170512.WAA23150@ns2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:02:47 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > yeah, it definitely looks like the bios is simply not setting %dl > correctly. i've moved the disk between machines and it works fine in > every other config with 0x80 getting passed in. it is clearly 0x00 on > the al440lx board. I guess we need to bring this to their attention; are there Intel insiders reading this? Anyone with contacts at Intel or Phoenix? > > Are you booting from a SCSI disk? If so what controller? Do you have > > an IDE disk you can try booting from? > > tried several different 2940 cards. i just tired an ide disk with the > same results (%dl == 0x00). OK, so it's nothing that they can blame on the disk controller BIOS. > > I won't have my hands on one of those boards until mid-next week (this > > is an "Atlantic", correct?), and probably not for very long then. > > yep, i think it's called "atlanta" I won't have one, now. Bummer. > > Symptoms of this problem are a system which attempts to access the > > floppy disk when booting from the hard disk, displaying an endless > > succession of > > > > C:0 H:0 S:0 > > > > error messages. > > > > David; can you confirm that last paragraph? I'm just guessing there. > > actually you get a single "Read error" message. and this is with the > latest bios 4A4LL0X0.86A.0013.P03 dated 10/02/97. OK. Jordan; should I be munging RELNOTES, or is this one yours? > btw, i ended up doing something similar to bteasy and made the > following changes to start.S. This breaks it for booting from a floppy, which isn't quite what we want. It should work just fine for your application though. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 23:02:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22659 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:02:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA22639 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xM5Tc-00075T-00; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:01:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:01:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: yp across a gateway? In-Reply-To: <199710150804.KAA10945@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > I seem to a problem with yp/NIS clients that > should reach a yp/NIS server across a gateway. > I'm not sure if this ought to work or doesn't > work out of principle in FreeBSD (2.2.2). Not in 2.2.2-release. ypbind uses broadcasts to find clients. The new ypbind in 2.2.5-beta now, can solict specific servers by IP. See the man page for ypbind in 2.2.5 > -- > Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > > > Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 16 23:15:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA23413 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:15:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23404 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:15:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA10889; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:14:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:14:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Greg Lehey cc: Hellmuth Michaelis , Howard Lew , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists In-Reply-To: <19971017115554.47636@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 08:40:46PM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > And we all know how viable that is. Grin, bear it, and send fork() bombs. > > Grin. Bear it. Don't send bombs. I know. I was being fascetious (word of the day) But the more SPAM I get... > > Is this person still on the distribution list? Maybe we should form > an acceptable use policy. Don't we have one? isn't it part of the list charter? Or do we need to actually explicitly declare 'This is good, this is bad' like kindergarten all over again? Probably... *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 02:05:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00907 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 02:05:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [194.226.32.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00900 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 02:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Eugeny.Kuzakov@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (kev.l321.omsk.net.ru [194.226.33.68]) by lab321.ru (8.8.5-MVC-230497/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13860 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:05:58 +0600 (OSK) Message-ID: <34472A92.708104B5@lab321.ru> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:06:26 +0700 From: Eugeny Kuzakov Organization: Powered by FreeBSD. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-971012-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: linux_ioctl from rah.star-gate.com fails compile under 3.0-971012-SNAP Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------738BE3CE0441B7B32576B505" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------738BE3CE0441B7B32576B505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi ! I have 3.0-971012-SNAP. I trying to replace linux's ioctls. I like to play Quake with sounds. Two months ago I done it succesfully. Now I just upgraded SNAP to Ioctls from rah.star-gate.com uses timeout/untimeout functions. linux_misc.c:85 calls untimeout() functions. In 971012-SNAP just added another parameter (struct callout_handle handle) for function untimeout. This handle needs to be initialized befor untimeout() call. ~~~cut from man~~~ The function untimeout() cancels the timeout associated with handle using the func and arg arguments to validate the handle. If the handle does not correspond to a timeout with the function func taking the argument arg no action is taken. handle must be initialized by a previous call to timeout(), callout_handle_init(), or assigned the value of CALLOUT_HANDLE_INITIALIZER(&handle) before being passed to untimeout(). The behavior of calling untimeout without a previously initialized handle is undefined. ~~~cut from man~~~ I trying initialize this handle. But I don't known where can I do it... Function untimeout called before call timeout. I tryed : Declarations in function : struct callout_handle handle; And insert callout_handle_init() befor call untimeout() callout_handle_init( &handle ); But it not works. Help, please... -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) http://www.lab321.ru/~kev kev@lab321.ru --------------738BE3CE0441B7B32576B505 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=koi8-r; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Eugeny Kuzakov Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Eugeny Kuzakov n: Kuzakov;Eugeny org: Laboratory 321 Ltd. adr: ;;;;;;Russia Federation email;internet: Eugeny.Kuzakov@lab321.ru title: System administrator tel;work: +7 381 2243584 tel;fax: +7 381 2234881 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------738BE3CE0441B7B32576B505-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 03:14:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03176 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 03:14:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (wired.ctech.ac.za [155.238.4.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03161; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 03:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wired.ctech.ac.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA10231; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:14:36 +0200 (SAT) Message-ID: <34473A8C.52BFA1D7@wired.ctech.ac.za> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:14:36 +0200 From: Jacques Hugo X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: makefile howto Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ... I'm looking for some info on using Makefiles. Can anyone point me to a FAQ/URL? Thanks -Jaques ------------------------------------------------------ The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" ... so I got BSD System Administrator | Jacques Hugo UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 ------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 04:36:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA06143 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 04:36:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA06124; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19971017043642.28819@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 04:36:42 -0700 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I read RTF files? References: <199710161301.IAA06916@argus.tfs.net> <19971016202708.DY50441@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <19971016202708.DY50441@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 08:27:08PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 08:27:08PM +0200, J Wunsch wrote: > > Apparently StarWriter supports RTF, however, I have never tested it. > > ...as well as ApplixWare. There's an rtf2latex tool, but it fails to > parse what most RTF generators emit. It seems to be able to parse > ApplixWare's RTF ;), but that's probably not much useful in Simon's > case. There is a shareware program RTFtoHTML which does a nice job, better than MS Office. http://www.sunpack.com/RTF/ Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 06:08:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA10302 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 06:08:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [194.226.32.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA10164; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 06:06:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Eugeny.Kuzakov@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (kev.l321.omsk.net.ru [194.226.33.68]) by lab321.ru (8.8.5-MVC-230497/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29269; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:39:20 +0600 (OSK) Message-ID: <34475C95.C6919297@lab321.ru> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:39:49 +0700 From: Eugeny Kuzakov Organization: Powered by FreeBSD. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-971012-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc To: questions@freebsd.org CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How do I set up XQUAKE under 971012-SNAP??? References: <85vhz4apvd.fsf@lutris.com> <34405EA7.41C67EA6@FreeBSD.org> <344167BA.D3DD124@no.spam> <623bno$hmb@winter.news.erols.com> <3446F994.79751F5C@no.spam> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I just upgraded my 3.0-SNAP ( 2 months old ) to 971012-SNAP. Linux xquake does not work. It says "Console initialized" and nothing anymore... -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) http://www.lab321.ru/~kev kev@lab321.ru From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 06:54:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12432 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 06:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from pahtoh.cwu.edu (root@pahtoh.cwu.edu [198.104.65.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12427 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 06:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by pahtoh.cwu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA19607; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 06:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA26836; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 06:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 06:54:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Timmons To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GLOBAL and www.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3446ABAB.284797A9@whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm going to try and get GLOBAL 2.1 into -current this weekend. It might help you find structure names a little bit better than what we presently have out there. >From Mr. Yamaguchi: What's New since 2.0: o Search symbol other than function. o Search string other than symbol. o Incremental update of tag files. o Control mozilla from command line. o Understand obj directory of BSD build system. -Chris On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > what are the chances of there being an nightly build of a GLOBAL HTML > tree (i.e. as produced by htags) for -current and -stable > on those machines. that would be a good way for people to explore the > sources > > > I guess there are 3 dimensions to it all > time, and a 2D global tree. > cvsweb is good for the time aspect, once you know what file you > are looking for, but 'global' is awesome in finding that file in > the first place. > > (I wish it did structures though) > > julian > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 07:00:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12883 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12871; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:00:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA08870; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 08:59:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Jacques Hugo cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: makefile howto In-Reply-To: <34473A8C.52BFA1D7@wired.ctech.ac.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Jacques Hugo wrote: > Hi there ... > > I'm looking for some info on using Makefiles. > > Can anyone point me to a FAQ/URL? I'd really recommend buying the O'Reilly book "Managing Projects With Make". Make is an incredibly important, and really basic tool for software engineering, and worth knowing pretty well, and the O'Reilly book does a good job with it. > > Thanks > > -Jaques > > ------------------------------------------------------ > The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" > ... so I got BSD > > System Administrator | Jacques Hugo > UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za > Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 > ------------------------------------------------------ > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 07:29:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA14251 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from konig.elte.hu (konig.elte.hu [157.181.6.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA14137 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:26:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sebesty@cs.elte.hu) Received: from neumann.cs.elte.hu (neumann [157.181.6.200]) by konig.elte.hu (8.8.3/8.7.3/7s) with ESMTP id PAA11670; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:40:24 +0200 Received: from localhost (sebesty@localhost) by neumann.cs.elte.hu (8.8.3/8.7.3/4c) with SMTP id PAA08660; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:40:03 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: neumann.cs.elte.hu: sebesty owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:40:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Zoltan Sebestyen To: adrian@virginia.edu cc: FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: Rhapsody is 4.4BSD based!? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Adrian T. Filipi-Martin wrote: > Hi folks, > > Has anyone else seen this? Aparently Apples next generation OS > is 4.4BSD based. Do I smell a new emmulation to support? > In fact, rhapsody is based on nextstep/openstep which are Mach microkernel(that's multithreaded) + a BSD server emulation. (That's why I could port vmount from openstep. If I remember correctly, OPENSTEP's BSD is a 4.2 BSD. > You can get the basics from the following PCmag URL: > > http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/news/trends/t971016a.htm > > I wonder which 4.4BSD they started with? It is reported to be > multithreaded. I wonder if them mean kernel-multithreaded? As I noted before, yes it is. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sebestyen Zoltan It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up. szoli@caesar.elte.hu But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 09:19:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19985 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA19980 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09286; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710171617.JAA09286@austin.polstra.com> To: Shimon@i-Connect.Net Subject: Re: cvsup2, where are you? In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:17:48 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , Simon Shapiro wrote: > Does anyone know? > > It pings fine. But cvsup connects and nothing happens :-( It seems to be working OK from where I sit. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 10:36:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24791 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.barcode.co.il (gatekeeper.barcode.co.il [192.116.93.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24718 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:36:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@barcode.co.il) Received: (from nadav@localhost) by gatekeeper.barcode.co.il (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07381; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:36:13 +0200 (IST) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:36:13 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NFS mount hangs and login.conf entries in 2.2.5-BETA Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, After installing 2.2.5-971005-BETA on a machine that previously ran 2.2.2-RELEASE I had to bump up the datasize entry for daemon in login.conf (see the suggested fix for misc/4576). It seems that setting it higher than 64MB (didn't test exactly, just an estimate) makes nfs mounts hang (I have one NFS mount on this machine, from a WinNT machine running Hummingbird's Maestro NFS server). I tried playing a bit with some other limits in daemon's entry (like doubling all limits there), but nothing seems to work. Any suggestions for values that work? Any of this going to be fixed in 2.2.5-RELEASE (at least a new deafult login.conf would be nice)? TIA Nadav From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 10:42:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25140 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:42:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25130 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:42:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gad@mlor.its.rpi.edu) Received: from mlor.its.rpi.edu (mlor.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.92]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA21688 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:41:44 -0400 Received: by mlor.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA01871; Fri, 17 Oct 97 13:42:50 -0400 Message-Id: <9710171742.AA01871@mlor.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 13:42:48 -0400 To: FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: Rhapsody is 4.4BSD based!? Reply-To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu References: <8767qxc8ea.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA25136 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk stephen farrell writes: > > "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" writes: > > > Has anyone else seen this? Aparently Apples next generation OS > > is 4.4BSD based. Do I smell a new emmulation to support? > > > > You can get the basics from the following PCmag URL: > > http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/news/trends/t971016a.htm > > > > I wonder which 4.4BSD they started with? It is reported to be > > multithreaded. I wonder if them mean kernel-multithreaded? > > I'm not sure about the 4.4BSDedness. I think they really *mean* > to say 4.3BSD updated with tools from 4.4BSD. The kernel is > still mach 2.5 (like NeXTSTEP) with BSD emulation layer, and > as such it is a very different beast than Free|Net|OpenBSD. I'm pretty sure it's more than an update of the tools level executables. They're also talking about much-improved (over NeXTSTEP) POSIX support, although they're not promising that it will be completely POSIX. Seems to me that there's some file- system changes too, but I might be wrong on that. I don't know if the mach-based kernel they are using will be (or already is) kernel-multithreaded. It is supposed to support multiple processors, although that support has never been turned on for a shipping version of the NeXTSTEP product (and probably will not be on for the January release of Rhapsody, either). The rhapsody release for January will probably remain Mach 2.5-based, but the "unified" release (later in the year) should see an upgrade to the Mach kernel too. I'm not sure how much this effects FreeBSD, other than it will be interesting to again have a high-volume (*) unix which is BSD-based. (* - at least Apple hopes it will be relatively high-volume :-). --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 11:30:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28526 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:30:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28518; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:30:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com) Received: from mailhost.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.18]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <53396(4)>; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:29:30 PDT Received: from gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com [13.231.133.90]) by mailhost.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA27749; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/client-1.3) id AA08860; Fri, 17 Oct 97 14:29:26 EDT Message-Id: <9710171829.AA08860@gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Chuck Robey Cc: Jacques Hugo , questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: makefile howto In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 05:59:37 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:29:25 PDT From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While not specifically dealing with BSD make, the GNU make manual is an excellent place...and gnu make is an excellent tool. marty -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com The Feynman problem solving Algorithm 1) Write down the problem 2) Think real hard 3) Write down the answer Murray Gell-mann in the NY Times From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 11:34:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28897 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28892 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:34:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xMHE7-0002v4-00; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:34:23 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.7/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA03146 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710171834.MAA03146@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Need source... Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:34:51 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd like to put FreeBSD on my Libretto 50CT laptop and dual boot it with Windows 95 (I need the latter for quicken, quickbooks and a couple of programs for work). However, the disk drive that comes with it is only 880M. Anybody know where I can get 8.5mm tall 2.5" IDE drives? I've tried all the usual places, but they only have the more standard 12.5mm tall drives, and nothing thinner. While I could fit one of these into my machine with a dremmel tool, I'd rather not do that given the 4 year warnatee I paid extra for... Also, I believe that the Libretto is well supported with FreeBSD's PAO side project. Does anybody have any experience with this? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 11:46:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29492 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:46:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29480 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:45:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15041; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:45:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015021; Fri Oct 17 11:45:39 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17849; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:44:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710171844.LAA17849@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: [Q] Is recvmsg for ancillary (control) data part of protocol or generic sockets? To: moncrg@ma.ultranet.com (Gregory D Moncreaff) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:44:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <01bcd8f1$a05d0560$01657392@moncrg> from "Gregory D Moncreaff" at Oct 14, 97 06:36:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > was looking at design and implementation 4.4 and > there was a PRU_RECV, PRU_RECVOOB but no > PRU_RECVCTL. > > just wondering how the control data gets from the > protocol to the user.... man recvmsg. The control and data parts are retrieved simultaneously. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 11:50:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29786 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29780 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00879; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:50:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd000871; Fri Oct 17 11:49:59 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA18161; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:49:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710171849.LAA18161@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: xwindows compiler To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:49:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: greg@oz.plymouth.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Oct 14, 97 07:22:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Did you mean a C compiler that could be used, among other things, to > create X applications, maybe? I think he means an X-based evelopement environment, on the order of the Microsoft Developer Studio or the Sybase Optima++ stuff, or the Borland TurboBuilder stuff, etc.. The short answer is that there is no current code in release which provides the necessary front end, and is frely available. The longer answer takes too much time from other interesting stuff I have to read and reply to (I have been off line for a business week). So the short form of the long anser is "it can be done, and there are a number of people working on things like this now". I don't have the resources to look up who is doing the work at this time, except to say I've got some stuff I'm not happy with that I've done towards the goal. So don't ask me for references for at least a week (if not more). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 11:55:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00141 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ccs.sogang.ac.kr (root@ccs.sogang.ac.kr [163.239.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00136 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dude@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr) Received: from cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr by ccs.sogang.ac.kr (8.8.7/Sogang) id DAA06710; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 03:54:06 +0900 (KST) Received: by cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09112; Sat, 18 Oct 97 03:51:26 KST Date: Sat, 18 Oct 97 03:51:26 KST From: dude@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr (Hong Seung Wook) Message-Id: <9710171851.AA09112@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr> Apparently-To: freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe freebsd-hackers dude@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 12:20:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01927 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:20:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01922 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:20:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA28144 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:20:26 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA09481; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:06:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971017210617.JJ24038@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:06:17 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I read RTF files? References: <199710161301.IAA06916@argus.tfs.net> <19971016202708.DY50441@uriah.heep.sax.de> <19971017043642.28819@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <19971017043642.28819@freebsd.org>; from Wolfram Schneider on Oct 17, 1997 04:36:42 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Wolfram Schneider wrote: > There is a shareware program RTFtoHTML which does a nice job, better > than MS Office. > http://www.sunpack.com/RTF/ Care to make a port for it? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 12:57:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04520 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:57:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from consys.com (consys.com [209.60.202.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04512 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:57:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcarter@consys.com) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (dnstoo.ConSys.COM [209.60.202.195]) by consys.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA08269; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dnstoo.consys.com (8.8.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA03820; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:57:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710171957.MAA03820@dnstoo.consys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey), greg@oz.plymouth.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xwindows compiler In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:49:43 GMT." <199710171849.LAA18161@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:57:47 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk }> Did you mean a C compiler that could be used, among other things, to }> create X applications, maybe? } }I think he means an X-based evelopement environment, on the order }of the Microsoft Developer Studio or the Sybase Optima++ stuff, }or the Borland TurboBuilder stuff, etc.. } emacs && cc-mode && oob? Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 13:00:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA04745 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04736 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20679; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA21209; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710172000.OAA21209@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need source... In-Reply-To: <199710171834.MAA03146@harmony.village.org> References: <199710171834.MAA03146@harmony.village.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd like to put FreeBSD on my Libretto 50CT laptop and dual boot it > with Windows 95 (I need the latter for quicken, quickbooks and a > couple of programs for work). However, the disk drive that comes with > it is only 880M. And the problem is? I've got 3 OS's on my 800MB drive, Win95, FreeBSD-2.1 (stable non-changing unix environment), and FreeBSD-current (development environ with OS sources on it that is *very* tight on disk space.) I had to double-space the Win95 partition to get it to work, but it does. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to squeeze X onto the FreeBSD installations due to disk space. > Anybody know where I can get 8.5mm tall 2.5" IDE > drives? I've tried all the usual places, but they only have the more > standard 12.5mm tall drives, and nothing thinner. While I could fit > one of these into my machine with a dremmel tool, I'd rather not do > that given the 4 year warnatee I paid extra for... You may try out Japan Palmtop Direct, which is who we bought our Librettos from before they were sold in the U.S. http://www.mmjp.or.jp/jpd/frames73.htm Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 13:21:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05888 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:21:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05880 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA14531 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:03:25 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710171903.UAA14531@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: where can i get 2.2.5-BETA (mirror problems) ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:03:25 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have been trying for a couple of days to fetch 2.2.5-BETA but with no luck. ftp.freebsd.org is practically unusable from here, as always during weekdays. But it seems that mirrors have serious problems as well: ftp.{uk|fr}.freebsd.org and probably others seem to have only a tree of empty directories under 2.2.5-BETA. Furthermore, the symlink to XF86331 is broken and no alternate server I have found carries it. Is there something which confuses mirrors, or what ? At the moment I am slowly downloading from ftp.jp.freebsd.org but guess there might be a closer & faster place in europe... any suggestion ? Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 13:30:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06355 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA06349 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xMJ2B-00030H-00; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:30:11 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.7/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA03665; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710172030.OAA03665@harmony.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: Need source... Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:00:28 MDT." <199710172000.OAA21209@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199710172000.OAA21209@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199710171834.MAA03146@harmony.village.org> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:30:39 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199710172000.OAA21209@rocky.mt.sri.com> Nate Williams writes: : And the problem is? I've got 3 OS's on my 800MB drive, Win95, : FreeBSD-2.1 (stable non-changing unix environment), and FreeBSD-current : (development environ with OS sources on it that is *very* tight on disk : space.) I had to double-space the Win95 partition to get it to work, : but it does. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to squeeze X onto the FreeBSD : installations due to disk space. But I want X :-). It sounds like I can get most of what I want under FreeBSD, however. -current has been stable enough for me for a long time, so I may just run that. That's what my build box wants to build (or at least what it builds). I could then do an NFS mount and make isntallworld... This has lots of potential. : You may try out Japan Palmtop Direct, which is who we bought our : Librettos from before they were sold in the U.S. : : http://www.mmjp.or.jp/jpd/frames73.htm I'll have to take a look there. Did you get the US or japanese keyboard? the us keyboard has one fewer columns of keys on it, which makes its keys a little larger. So far it hasn't been bad. Not what I'd want to do for extended hacking session, but for light to moderate editing, it has been fine. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 13:34:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06656 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06620 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:34:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20929; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA21410; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:34:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:34:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710172034.OAA21410@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Warner Losh Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need source... In-Reply-To: <199710172030.OAA03665@harmony.village.org> References: <199710172000.OAA21209@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199710171834.MAA03146@harmony.village.org> <199710172030.OAA03665@harmony.village.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : And the problem is? I've got 3 OS's on my 800MB drive, Win95, > : FreeBSD-2.1 (stable non-changing unix environment), and FreeBSD-current > : (development environ with OS sources on it that is *very* tight on disk > : space.) I had to double-space the Win95 partition to get it to work, > : but it does. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to squeeze X onto the FreeBSD > : installations due to disk space. > > But I want X :-). It sounds like I can get most of what I want under > FreeBSD, however. -current has been stable enough for me for a long > time, so I may just run that. Then you probably have enough room for X. The double-space under Win95 was the biggest factor in me being able to get both on the 800MB. (That and the fact that I don't do a whole lot under '95). > : You may try out Japan Palmtop Direct, which is who we bought our > : Librettos from before they were sold in the U.S. > : > : http://www.mmjp.or.jp/jpd/frames73.htm > > I'll have to take a look there. > > Did you get the US or japanese keyboard? the us keyboard has one > fewer columns of keys on it, which makes its keys a little larger. We got Japanese units, since that's all that was available. I'm sure larger keys would help, although we have another box from there, and it has about a 25% larger keyboard, and it's still annoying to use. I would think the keyboard needs to be about 33% bigger than the Libretto for it to be useful a 'regular' laptop. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 13:48:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07203 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07196 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:48:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@cdsnet.net) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA11306; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:48:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: matt@3am-software.com Subject: 2.2.5 and DE0... Interesting. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a bunch of DEC machines with onboard DEC ethernet controllers. I haven't been able to use them with the de0 driver, the 21142 chipset isn't recognized correctly. no biggie. So I was just doing a fresh install of 2.2.5-BETA on a virgin box today, and lo and behold, de2 shows up, DEC 21142, and gives the correct hardware address and such. However, it also gives the message, "Can't find phys 0". It would be really, really keen if I could get these working, since I could free up a PCI slot then. If anybody has any idea what can be done, let me know. The 21142 is on the motherboard, and there's a little daughter card that plugs in that brings out an AUI, TP, and coax port out the back. Any tip appreciated. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 13:54:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07422 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07413 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 24466 invoked by uid 1001); 17 Oct 1997 20:54:38 +0000 (GMT) To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: where can i get 2.2.5-BETA (mirror problems) ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:03:25 +0100 (MET)" References: <199710171903.UAA14531@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:54:38 +0200 Message-ID: <24464.877121678@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have been trying for a couple of days to fetch 2.2.5-BETA but with no > luck. ftp.freebsd.org is practically unusable from here, as always > during weekdays. ... > At the moment I am slowly downloading from ftp.jp.freebsd.org but guess > there might be a closer & faster place in europe... any suggestion ? Try ftp.no.freebsd.org aka trane.uninett.no. Has 2.2.5-971012-BETA and 2.2.5-971015-BETA. Look for XF86331 under the releng22 directory. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no PS: 90 ms roundtrip to labinfo.iet.unipi.it - not too bad. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 13:59:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07690 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:59:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terra.stack.nl (terra.stack.nl [131.155.140.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07676 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:59:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@xaa.stack.nl) Received: from xaa.stack.nl (uucp@localhost) by terra.stack.nl (8.8.7) with UUCP id WAA08992; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:59:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by xaa.stack.nl (8.8.7/8.8.2) id WAA04225; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:56:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971017225656.01252@xaa.stack.nl> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:56:56 +0200 From: Mark Huizer To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: where can i get 2.2.5-BETA (mirror problems) ? References: <199710171903.UAA14531@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199710171903.UAA14531@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Fri, Oct 17, 1997 at 08:03:25PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 17, 1997 at 08:03:25PM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Hi, > > I have been trying for a couple of days to fetch 2.2.5-BETA but with no > luck. ftp.freebsd.org is practically unusable from here, as always > during weekdays. > ftp.nl.freebsd.org seems to have the stuff. Did you try them? Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 14:12:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08310 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:12:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from pat.idi.ntnu.no (0@pat.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.103.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08296 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Tor.Egge@idi.ntnu.no) Received: from idt.unit.no (tegge@ikke.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.111.65]) by pat.idi.ntnu.no (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA19436; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:12:05 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199710172112.XAA19436@pat.idi.ntnu.no> To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: where can i get 2.2.5-BETA (mirror problems) ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:03:25 +0100 (MET)" References: <199710171903.UAA14531@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on Emacs 19.34.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:12:05 +0200 From: Tor Egge Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > I have been trying for a couple of days to fetch 2.2.5-BETA but with no > luck. ftp.freebsd.org is practically unusable from here, as always > during weekdays. > > But it seems that mirrors have serious problems as well: > ftp.{uk|fr}.freebsd.org and probably others seem to have only a > tree of empty directories under 2.2.5-BETA. Furthermore, the symlink > to XF86331 is broken and no alternate server I have found carries > it. Is there something which confuses mirrors, or what ? > > At the moment I am slowly downloading from ftp.jp.freebsd.org but guess > there might be a closer & faster place in europe... any suggestion ? Try one of the following locations: ftp://ftp.ae.keio.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD/mirror ftp://ftp.apache.de/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.ar.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.au.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-a ftp://ftp.belgium.eu.net/pub/os/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.cd.chalmers.se/pub/os/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/.25/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.chg.ru/.3/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.contrib.com/pub/software/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.convey.ru/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.cs.hku.hk/pub3/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.cs.titech.ac.jp/pub/os/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/bsd/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.cs.uwm.edu/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/systems/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.demon.net/pub/mirrors/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.doc.ic.ac.uk/Mirrors/ftp.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.dti.ad.jp/pub/OS/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.ee.uec.ac.jp/pub/os/mirror/ftp.freebsd.org ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/.1/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.eni.co.jp/.3/ftp.jp.freebsd.org ftp://ftp.eos.hokudai.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.eu.net/os/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.fri.uni-lj.si/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.fujitsu.co.jp/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.gamma.ru/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.icm.edu.pl/vol/c1/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp/pub/mirrors/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.iij.ad.jp/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/.1/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.lucky.net/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.mei.co.jp/free/PC-UNIX/FreeBSD/mirror ftp://ftp.netlab.is.tsukuba.ac.jp/pub/OS/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.nisiq.net/pub/os/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/vol/5/freebsd-core ftp://ftp.no.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.oce.nl/pub/os/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.pacificorp.com/.mirrors/ftp.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.phys.keio.ac.jp/pub/mirror/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.physics.usyd.edu.au/FreeBSD-a ftp://ftp.plig.org/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.radio-msu.net/.3 ftp://ftp.ravel.ufrj.br/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub2/os/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.tokyonet.ad.jp/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.tokyonet.ad.jp/pub/FreeBSD-jp/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.tokyonet.ad.jp/pub/FreeBSD-nonUS/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.tu-dresden.de/pub/soft/unix/bsd/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.tu-graz.ac.at/pub/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.tut.ac.jp/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.u-aizu.ac.jp/pub/os/./FreeBSD ftp://ftp.uni-magdeburg.de/pub/mirror/freebsd ftp://ftp.unicamp.br/pub/systems/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.unina.it/pub/.diskE/bsd/FreeBSD ftp://ftp.vse.cz/pub/.ccd0c/FreeBSD/RELENG ftp://ftp.wustl.edu/systems/unix/FreeBSD ftp://ring.aist.go.jp/pub/FreeBSD ftp://sunsite.uio.no/pub/unix/FreeBSD ftp://zoffy.asahi-net.or.jp/pub/FreeBSD - Tor Egge From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 14:19:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08766 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08726; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03964; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09104; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:19:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:19:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca To: Marty Leisner cc: Chuck Robey , Jacques Hugo , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: makefile howto In-Reply-To: <9710171829.AA08860@gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Marty Leisner wrote: > While not specifically dealing with BSD make, the GNU make manual > is an excellent place...and gnu make is an excellent tool. /usr/share/doc/psd/12.make/* is probably better. GNU make and BSD make are really two very different animals. Actually, I'm not sure I really like the direction that GNU is trying to take build configuration. I would much rather see them try and encourage a make using something similar to our /usr/share/mk/* than try to circumvent the whole idea with huge cumbering monstrocities named auto*. To be fair, I'll use autoconfig, and it's better than nothing (intended as a compliment, not an insult), my religious differences or no. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 14:36:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09945 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:36:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from arg1.demon.co.uk (arg1.demon.co.uk [194.222.34.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09930 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:36:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arg@arg1.demon.co.uk) Received: (from arg@localhost) by arg1.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00552; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:36:31 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:36:31 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Gordon X-Sender: arg@server.arg.sj.co.uk To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need source... In-Reply-To: <199710171834.MAA03146@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > I'd like to put FreeBSD on my Libretto 50CT laptop and dual boot it > with Windows 95 (I need the latter for quicken, quickbooks and a > couple of programs for work). However, the disk drive that comes with > it is only 880M. Anybody know where I can get 8.5mm tall 2.5" IDE > drives? I've tried all the usual places, but they only have the more > standard 12.5mm tall drives, and nothing thinner. While I could fit > one of these into my machine with a dremmel tool, I'd rather not do > that given the 4 year warnatee I paid extra for... I have an IBM "Travelstar VP" 1.6 Gb drive fitted to my Libretto 50CT. This is 9mm tall, so a fraction taller than the original drive, but it does fit (it helps to loosen the case screws to give you slack to slide the drive in, but once in you can close up without any distortion to the case, and for warranty purposes if you put the original drive back and they won't be any the wiser). The IBM drive cost me GBP 161 (about USD 260), which I thought was quite reasonable for what it is. I had my brain out of gear when partitioning it, in that a straight 800Mb/800Mb split with Win95 in the first half puts the root partion starting at about cylinder 1025 and so it won't boot from booteasy; however it will boot from DOS using Fbsdboot.exe. Obviously a 750/850 split would have been more sensible if I had thought of this before spending many hours installing windows software. If keeping Win95 on the machine, it helps to save the installation disc images from C:\windows\options\cabs\*.* because a straight Win95 installation from the floppies that come with the machine won't put them back, and without them you have a complete joke with PnP and PCMCIA cards - you stick in a card and it says "now insert floppy no. 27", so you eject the card to fit the floppy drive, but since Win95 is stuck inside the card insertion event handler at this point, it won't recognize the floppy drive! I can't now remember how I got out of this mess - the solution involved putting back the old hard drive and transferring the cabs files over the network to my BSD machine, but i can't remember how I got them back again given that my network card was the first thing that prompted this. Possibly I brought back the critical one of the .cab files via floppy and put the rest back via the network later. Needless to say, installing FreeBSD was much easier than Win95. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 14:39:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10171 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:39:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10163 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcarmich@Mercury.mcs.net) Received: from Mercury.mcs.net (dcarmich@Mercury.mcs.net [192.160.127.80]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA28499 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:39:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by Mercury.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id QAA18493 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:39:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199710172139.QAA18493@Mercury.mcs.net> Subject: RPM as FreeBSD's package manager? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:39:41 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What about using RPM as the package manager and dropping the pkg_xxx commands? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 15:00:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA11432 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11417; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:00:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA02479; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:57:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: Marty Leisner , Jacques Hugo , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: makefile howto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Marty Leisner wrote: > > > While not specifically dealing with BSD make, the GNU make manual > > is an excellent place...and gnu make is an excellent tool. > > /usr/share/doc/psd/12.make/* is probably better. GNU make and > BSD make are really two very different animals. > > Actually, I'm not sure I really like the direction that GNU is > trying to take build configuration. I would much rather see them > try and encourage a make using something similar to our > /usr/share/mk/* than try to circumvent the whole idea with huge > cumbering monstrocities named auto*. To be fair, I'll use > autoconfig, and it's better than nothing (intended as a > compliment, not an insult), my religious differences or no. Agreed. Also, I find some of the comments that the gnu folks salt in with their tools offensive, like the one in the libtool thing that says that freebsd ld.so is broken. Did you ever try to troubleshoot a complicated install that their auto-* tools are involved with? It's really difficult. > > > -- > Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! > tIM...HOEk > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 15:17:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12243 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12238 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:17:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA08634; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:17:22 -0700 (PDT) To: Douglas Carmichael cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RPM as FreeBSD's package manager? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:39:41 CDT." <199710172139.QAA18493@Mercury.mcs.net> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:17:22 -0700 Message-ID: <8630.877126642@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No. > What about using RPM as the package manager and dropping the pkg_xxx > commands? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 16:21:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14804 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14791 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08747; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd008745; Fri Oct 17 16:20:53 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA07270; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:20:47 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710172320.QAA07270@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: O_APPEND and flock() To: abial@korin.warman.org.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:20:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Andrzej Bialecki" at Oct 15, 97 11:47:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The question is, is the write() call atomic? I.e., I want to avoid the > situation, when parts of each write() call would be interleaved with each > other. > > Reading man pages and BSD docs didn't make it clear for me. Write in units of the device block size or smaller. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 16:30:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15235 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:30:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15224 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16857; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd016852; Fri Oct 17 16:30:02 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA07875; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:30:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710172330.QAA07875@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Question about file opens To: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu (Charles Green) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:30:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710151010.KAA28975@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> from "Charles Green" at Oct 15, 97 10:10:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For a project I'm working on we're interested in tracking file opens, > and are interested in the best way of tracking them. Any ideas? Or is it > impossible without modifying the kernel? Without modifying the kernel at al? No, if you need to track opens as events. Without permanently modifying the kernel, you mean? Yes, it's pretty trivial... Load an LKM that copies off the file name to an event queue, and then call the real open. You can replace the real open with your stub function by saving the value of of the systent structure at sysent[ SYS_open] and pointing it to your function instead. You will have to copy the path in twice, but this is not a real hardship. If you are trying to track resources, you will need to hack SYS_close as well, and look at the per process open file table to generate paired events. If you expect it to work paired over fork, an exec will have to examine the per process open file list, and generate pseudo-open events. I would probably save the path in the queue record. I would probably use a character pseudo device as the queue head, and have a user audit process dequeue entries by reading a fixed length structure from the device. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 16:40:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15617 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:40:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15612 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09206; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd009202; Fri Oct 17 16:39:24 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA08275; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:39:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710172339.QAA08275@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: values for exit() To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:39:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za In-Reply-To: <19971015215513.ZP41248@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Oct 15, 97 09:55:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Where can I find the exit values for > > > exit()? Meaning, what is the difference > > > between eg exit(1) and exit(2)? errno.h > > each application defines their return code meanings. The important > > rule is that 0 means no error, non-zero indicates an error or special > > condition. > > Not necessarily. style(9) encourages the use of the values as > documented in sysexits(3). In particular new stuff should better > stick to it. > > Of course, a utility that wishes to report just shell-script true/ > false values will do fine by only using 0 or 1 for the exit values. A number of shells actually report the text of the exit condition for a non-zero return. This allows them to internationalize error messages, and is more friendly for the user than the command just exiting with no message and no way to tell except "echo $?". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 18:48:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA21691 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21682 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:48:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15120; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:48:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd015118; Fri Oct 17 18:48:13 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA15414; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:47:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710180147.SAA15414@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: darrenr@cyber.com.au (Darren Reed) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 01:47:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710161240.WAA00879@plum.cyber.com.au> from "Darren Reed" at Oct 16, 97 10:40:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > There is an API ? > > What do you want that struct for? > > well, ifconfig, netstat, etc. all need it. > > if you're writing your own LKM for a network driver, you need it. > > if you're writing firewalling packet filtering code, you need it. > > "struct ifnet" is used in _lots_ of places. > > if you want to simulate kernel code, then you also need it. If it's used lots of places, then the API is bad. Kernel internals should not be treated as API. I count your build failures as *good* things. For FreeBSD specific code, it means I can do a grep for an _var,h file, and end up with a list of what I need to rebuild. That is a wonderful thing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 19:01:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22383 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:01:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22377 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15379; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:01:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd015373; Fri Oct 17 19:01:13 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA16463; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:01:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710180201.TAA16463@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: darrenr@cyber.com.au (Darren Reed) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 02:01:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710170200.MAA27628@plum.cyber.com.au> from "Darren Reed" at Oct 17, 97 12:00:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's a slow thing. Just a general consencus that lookingin the kernel vm > > for information is notthe way to go in general. > > Granted. I'd correct this to "it's the general consensus that code not associated with the kernel image shouldn't be looking at the kernel data". This isn't *exactly* the same thing... Specifically, the following scenario: 1) The kernel is moved to ELF 2) The kernel loader understands segment attribution 3) Segments with some attributes aren't loaded; segments with other attributes are 4) Segments containing functions for accessing specific are provided in the kernel image 5) The application dlopen()'s the kernel image to obtain the user API segments 6) The application functions independent of structure changes because the "libkvm" and the iteration interfaces are not dependent on seperate code (either libkvm or the user's code) having desynchronized knowledge of kernel structures This basically means that the "ps" and "w" programs must use structure element extraction functions instead of reading and dereferencing the structure elements themselves. This would be pretty easy to accomplish using name/offset descriptors in a not-normally-loaded-by-the-kernel data set in the kernel image. It also happens to nicely solve the "how do I run ps on this system dump" and the "how do I examine this system dump from a -stable user on my -current system" -- both problems that are a pain. The first is a pain because of the need to have the ability to specify multiple synchronized arguments to ps (it's always been annoying). The second is a pain because there is no fix for it at all using the current code, or reasonable anticipated changes to the current code. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 19:03:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22504 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22495 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:03:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15396; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd015394; Fri Oct 17 19:02:56 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA16519; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 19:02:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710180202.TAA16519@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: darrenr@cyber.com.au (Darren Reed) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 02:02:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: julian@whistle.com, darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710170037.KAA24115@plum.cyber.com.au> from "Darren Reed" at Oct 17, 97 10:37:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I think that's because they are needed externally. > > the flags word is passed around independantly of the > > ifnet. (e.g. through the API) > > okay, this is the second time you're referred to the API. > > Where can it be found ? Who is responsible for it ? W. Richard Stevens. If the code isn't portable to Linux, SVR4, and Solaris without compile time switches, why write it? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 21:59:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA27689 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:59:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.NetBSD.ORG (homeworld.cygnus.com [205.180.83.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA27681 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:59:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hubertf@NetBSD.ORG) From: hubertf@NetBSD.ORG Received: (qmail 17703 invoked by uid 1127); 17 Oct 1997 23:01:31 -0000 Date: 17 Oct 1997 23:01:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19971017230131.17696.qmail@mail.NetBSD.ORG> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pkg_add glitch Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, during importing the latest pkg_install tools from FreeBSD into NetBSD, I have fixed a bug that affects installing local packages (3rd point below): - most important: do string-magic on the right variable when trying to find dependent packages on the local disk (i.e. package given as filename, not URL) Besides that, the patch below does: - document $PKG_PATH - use -v on pkg_add for dependent packages (forgot on last commit) I hope that you can make use of this! :-) - Hubert, 19971015 diff -bur pkg_install.orig-971013.2/add/perform.c pkg_install/add/perform.c --- pkg_install.orig-971013.2/add/perform.c Tue Oct 14 22:29:49 1997 +++ pkg_install/add/perform.c Wed Oct 15 04:14:28 1997 @@ -251,7 +251,7 @@ if (cp) { if (Verbose) printf("Loading it from %s.\n", cp); - if (vsystem("pkg_add %s", cp)) { + if (vsystem("pkg_add %s%s", Verbose ? "-v " : "", cp)) { warnx("autoload of dependency `%s' failed%s", cp, Force ? " (proceeding anyway)" : "!"); if (!Force) diff -bur pkg_install.orig-971013.2/add/pkg_add.1 pkg_install/add/pkg_add.1 --- pkg_install.orig-971013.2/add/pkg_add.1 Tue Oct 14 16:54:47 1997 +++ pkg_install/add/pkg_add.1 Wed Oct 15 03:26:57 1997 @@ -70,7 +70,11 @@ .It Ar pkg-name [... pkg-name] The named packages are installed. A package name of - will cause .Nm -to read from stdin. +to read from stdin. If the packages are not found in the current +working directory, +.Nm +will search them in each directory named by +.Ev PKG_PATH . .It Fl v Turn on verbose output. .It Fl I @@ -323,6 +327,14 @@ .Fl p flag to .Cm pkg_add . +.Sh ENVIRONMENT +The value of the +.Ev PKG_PATH +is used if a given package can't be found. The environment variable +should be a series of entries seperated by colons. Each entry +consists of a directory name. The current directory may be indicated +implicitly by an empty directory name, or explicitly by a single +period. .Sh SEE ALSO .Xr pkg_create 1 , .Xr pkg_delete 1 , diff -bur pkg_install.orig-971013.2/lib/file.c pkg_install/lib/file.c --- pkg_install.orig-971013.2/lib/file.c Tue Oct 14 22:33:46 1997 +++ pkg_install/lib/file.c Wed Oct 15 04:41:34 1997 @@ -299,15 +299,16 @@ if (base) { strcpy(tmp, base); - cp = strrchr(fname, '/'); + cp = strrchr(tmp, '/'); if (cp) { *cp = '\0'; /* chop name */ - cp = strrchr(fname, '/'); + cp = strrchr(tmp, '/'); } if (cp) { *(cp + 1) = '\0'; strcat(cp, "All/"); strcat(cp, fname); + strcat(cp, ".tgz"); if (fexists(tmp)) return tmp; } From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 17 22:57:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA29684 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:57:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA29679 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:57:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA11060; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:57:15 -0700 (PDT) To: hubertf@NetBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pkg_add glitch In-reply-to: Your message of "17 Oct 1997 23:01:31 -0000." <19971017230131.17696.qmail@mail.NetBSD.ORG> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:57:14 -0700 Message-ID: <11056.877154234@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > during importing the latest pkg_install tools from FreeBSD into > NetBSD, I have fixed a bug that affects installing local packages > (3rd point below): > > - most important: do string-magic on the right variable when trying > to find dependent packages on the local disk (i.e. package given as > filename, not URL) > > Besides that, the patch below does: > > - document $PKG_PATH > - use -v on pkg_add for dependent packages (forgot on last commit) > > I hope that you can make use of this! :-) We can indeed, thanks! All of your changes have been committed. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 00:20:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA02300 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:20:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02293 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA06629; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:20:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA12428; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 08:53:00 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971018085300.UT45874@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 08:53:00 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Subject: Re: values for exit() References: <19971015215513.ZP41248@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199710172339.QAA08275@usr06.primenet.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199710172339.QAA08275@usr06.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Oct 17, 1997 23:39:12 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Where can I find the exit values for > > > > exit()? Meaning, what is the difference > > > > between eg exit(1) and exit(2)? > > errno.h Only in TerryBSD. In FreeBSD, stick with sysexits(3). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 00:25:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA02434 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:25:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02427 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:25:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xMTGH-0003Ks-00; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 01:25:25 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.7/8.8.3) with ESMTP id BAA06360; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 01:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710180725.BAA06360@harmony.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: Need source... Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:34:11 MDT." <199710172034.OAA21410@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199710172034.OAA21410@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199710172000.OAA21209@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199710171834.MAA03146@harmony.village.org> <199710172030.OAA03665@harmony.village.org> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 01:25:57 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199710172034.OAA21410@rocky.mt.sri.com> Nate Williams writes: : Then you probably have enough room for X. The double-space under Win95 : was the biggest factor in me being able to get both on the 800MB. (That : and the fact that I don't do a whole lot under '95). OK. I'll give it a try. I'm using about 400M (says 327M free) of the drive right now for Win95 and other sw for work. That should leave approx 600-700M for FreeBSD, which should be enough, no? : We got Japanese units, since that's all that was available. I'm sure : larger keys would help, although we have another box from there, and it : has about a 25% larger keyboard, and it's still annoying to use. I : would think the keyboard needs to be about 33% bigger than the Libretto : for it to be useful a 'regular' laptop. Like I said, I'm getting used to it. However, the keyboard I'm typing on now lets me do things about twice as fast (just the standard PC keyboard). I've found that I'm rarely limited by the speed I can type for 80% of the programming I do, esp debugging. That other 20%, however, and the Libretto isn't the ideal tool for the job.... It is nice to have something that small, since I can take it anywhere, but it isn't a tech writer's machine. That's for sure. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 01:21:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA04219 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 01:21:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA04207 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 01:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA06998; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:21:11 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA12623; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:11:21 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971018101121.RL23200@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:11:21 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: PBozeman@lbl.gov Subject: Re: device major id list References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Bozeman on Oct 13, 1997 18:04:46 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Pat Bozeman wrote: > Is there a list of devices and their major id numbers someplace? /sys/i386/conf/majors.i386 Note that this list might reduce some day to only the hard-coded major #'s once DEVFS is the norm, and automatic assignment can take place. The list will probably only contain device majors then that are shared with the bootstrap code or have another good reason for being hard-coded. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 02:08:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06402 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 02:08:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA06367 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 02:08:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA15529; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 08:50:58 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710180750.IAA15529@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: where can i get 2.2.5-BETA (mirror problems) ? To: Tor.Egge@idi.ntnu.no (Tor Egge) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 08:50:58 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710172112.XAA19436@pat.idi.ntnu.no> from "Tor Egge" at Oct 17, 97 11:11:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Try one of the following locations: the list is only partly useful -- many of these sites do not carry all distributions, and many others seem to have major problems in mirroring since they have only an empty directory tree. For the records, ftp.no.freebsd.org seems to work quite well. Cheers Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 04:52:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA13442 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 04:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from innocence.interface-business.de (innocence.interface-business.de [193.101.57.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA13415 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 04:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by innocence.interface-business.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with UUCP id NAA21509; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:51:47 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA16325; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:47:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971018134740.JT61496@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:47:40 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: tarkhil@mgt.msk.ru Subject: Re: Repeated panic during work with vn References: <199710131343.RAA01226@asteroid.mgt.msk.ru> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199710131343.RAA01226@asteroid.mgt.msk.ru>; from Alexander B. Povolotsky on Oct 13, 1997 17:43:22 +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Alexander B. Povolotsky wrote: > I am trying to make release, and I've got 100% repeateble panic during > doFS.sh execution. Try Mr. KATO's workaround: cvs diff: Diffing /sys/dev/vn Index: /sys/dev/vn/vn.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/src/sys/dev/vn/vn.c,v retrieving revision 1.50 diff -u -u -r1.50 vn.c --- vn.c 1997/09/27 13:38:12 1.50 +++ vn.c 1997/10/13 20:53:51 @@ -228,6 +228,7 @@ register struct vn_softc *vn = vn_softc[unit]; register daddr_t bn; int error; + int isvplocked; long sz; struct uio auio; struct iovec aiov; @@ -276,12 +277,18 @@ auio.uio_rw = UIO_WRITE; auio.uio_resid = bp->b_bcount; auio.uio_procp = curproc; - vn_lock(vn->sc_vp, LK_EXCLUSIVE | LK_RETRY, curproc); + if (!VOP_ISLOCKED(vn->sc_vp)) { + isvplocked = 1; + vn_lock(vn->sc_vp, LK_EXCLUSIVE | LK_RETRY, curproc); + } if( bp->b_flags & B_READ) error = VOP_READ(vn->sc_vp, &auio, 0, vn->sc_cred); else error = VOP_WRITE(vn->sc_vp, &auio, 0, vn->sc_cred); - VOP_UNLOCK(vn->sc_vp, 0, curproc); + if (isvplocked) { + VOP_UNLOCK(vn->sc_vp, 0, curproc); + isvplocked = 0; + } bp->b_resid = auio.uio_resid; if( error ) @@ -305,10 +312,17 @@ int off, s, nra; nra = 0; + if (!VOP_ISLOCKED(vn->sc_vp)) { + isvplocked = 1; + vn_lock(vn->sc_vp, LK_EXCLUSIVE | LK_RETRY, curproc); + } vn_lock(vn->sc_vp, LK_EXCLUSIVE | LK_RETRY, curproc); error = VOP_BMAP(vn->sc_vp, (daddr_t)(byten / bsize), &vp, &nbn, &nra, NULL); - VOP_UNLOCK(vn->sc_vp, 0, curproc); + if (isvplocked) { + VOP_UNLOCK(vn->sc_vp, 0, curproc); + isvplocked = 0; + } if (error == 0 && nbn == -1) error = EIO; -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 05:50:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA16394 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 05:50:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from innocence.interface-business.de (innocence.interface-business.de [193.101.57.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA16388 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 05:50:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by innocence.interface-business.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with UUCP id OAA21814 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:50:10 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA16464; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:39:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19971018143950.GR04030@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:39:50 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Hellmuth Michaelis on Oct 16, 1997 08:45:16 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > I'd vote to disable majordomos feature to send out the complete list of > memebers, its useless for the normal user anyway. This feature has been disabled long ago. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 07:29:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA20054 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 07:29:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20048 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 07:29:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA27982 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:29:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "David E. Cross" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD authentication... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone working on supporting Kerberos V5 now that it is out, instead of the kerb-4 eBones packge? Is there any interest (should there be) to mooving to Pluggabl Authentication Modules. (Since they are implimented as shared libraries, that you link in as needed, would we need to rewrite ld.so a bit to ensure that people couldn't set their LD_LIBRARY_PATH, and then run su to get full root acces, sans password?) -- David Cross ACS Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 13:20:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03016 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kalkoen.sateh.com (kalkoen.sateh.com [194.151.25.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03011 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:20:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan@kalkoen.sateh.com) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by kalkoen.sateh.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA05788; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:22:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19971018222208.49710@kalkoen.sateh.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:22:08 +0200 From: Stefan Arentz To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Linux Emulation - clone() Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (I'm forwarding this to hackers because i'm not getting responses from the people on emulation). Hi Folks, I'm trying to implement the linux clone() system call in 2.2.2. It looks like this can be done with the FreeBSD rfork call except that Linux also allows you to set the user stack pointer for the new process. pid_t clone(void *sp, unsigned long flags) I'm still reading 'The design and implementation of the 4.4BSD operating system' to get a clue about where to setup the stack pointer, but it's still a big mystery to me ;) Maybe someone can point me in the right direction. - Stefan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 16:07:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08208 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08202 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:07:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mdean@shellx.best.com) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.7/8.8.BEST) with ESMTP id QAA15828 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mdean@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.8.6/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA22774 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:06:48 -0700 (PDT) From: mdean To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Opinions wanted. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If an 8255 (digital I/O) 8-bit port is opened via open() call by the user as O_RDWR then it becomes an output, should I make all lines high, or all lines low by default. I noticed that the 8255 seems to use low (but i have set them high in my driver because the equipment I use outputs for is activated by active low signal so I don't want it to all be turned on just by opening the device file), what may I ask is more general all high, or all low (in your opinion ofcourse)? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 16:33:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08946 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08941 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:33:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00197 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:33:11 -0700 (PDT) From: 0000-Administrator To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: outb() / inb() Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just discovered that outb (0x250, *c++); /* doesn't work whereas */ outb (0x250, *c); c++; /* works */ I would guess (but cannot verify) that *c++ = inb (0x250); /* probably works since the increment expression is * not part of the macro */ can somebody verify this for me I am pretty sure about the inb (even though I can't test it easily), as for the outb since outb just is a macro that puts in an inline function outbv() why does it not work? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 17:03:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10126 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10120 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:03:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23016; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:13:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199710182313.TAA23016@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Opinions wanted. In-Reply-To: from mdean at "Oct 18, 97 04:06:48 pm" To: mdean@best.com (mdean) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If an 8255 (digital I/O) 8-bit port is opened via open() call by the user > as O_RDWR then it becomes an output, should I make all lines high, or all > lines low by default. I noticed that the 8255 seems to use low (but i have > set them high in my driver because the equipment I use outputs for is > activated by active low signal so I don't want it to all be turned on just > by opening the device file), what may I ask is more general all high, or > all low (in your opinion ofcourse)? You must pass the normal behavior of the hardware through to the software. The system design must arrange to pull the signals high at start up (if you can, yes I'm mostly software) so that it doesn't turn on devices. The hardware must be set up with pullup or pulldown resistors as appropriate to e.g. avoid turning on the natural gas solenoid in the oxygen tent at powerup in case the system hangs while trying to automatically connect to microsoft.com to download the latest browser. All systems may do this soon. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 17:56:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12642 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12628 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:56:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00274; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:55:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:55:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Peter Dufault cc: mdean , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opinions wanted. In-Reply-To: <199710182313.TAA23016@hda.hda.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You must pass the normal behavior of the hardware through to the > software. When The 8255 board resets all i/o lines are high impedance inputs this shouldn't trigger anything (like a SSR module). Inputs on this board look would high to anything sensitive enough to use them like outputs. I have 6 device nodes for each port, each control an 8 bit port. Any that are not currently open have their corresponding port set as input (the reset state). However on an 8255 when you set a direction flag to output it automatically defaults to all low on the outputs. My question is whether I should leave that as the default state on an open() call or immediately (in the driver) during the open set all outputs to high initially. I am already doing the later but comptemplating changing it back to all lows on an open because doing all highs on open() call generates a high, low, high pulse of about 1 microsecond width. Which could conceivably (not likely though) damage something (like an SSR) that doesn't like high frequency driving signals. > > The system design must arrange to pull the signals high at start > up (if you can, yes I'm mostly software) so that it doesn't turn > on devices. The hardware must be set up with pullup or pulldown > resistors as appropriate to e.g. avoid turning on the natural gas > solenoid in the oxygen tent at powerup in case the system hangs > while trying to automatically connect to microsoft.com to download > the latest browser. All systems may do this soon. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, > HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 17:58:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12820 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:58:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from jake.csh.rit.edu (jake.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12815 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:58:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tad@mcp.csh.rit.edu) Received: from localhost (tad@localhost) by jake.csh.rit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA26658 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:58:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199710190058.UAA26658@jake.csh.rit.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.csh.rit.edu: tad owned process doing -bs X-Authentication-Warning: jake.csh.rit.edu: tad@localhost didn't use HELO protocol Reply-To: Tad Hunt To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: libc_r and print... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <26656.877222719.1@mail.csh.rit.edu> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:58:39 -0400 From: Tad Hunt Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm having a problem with the following simple test case on FreeBSD-2.2-RELEASE when linking with libc_r foo.c: #include void main(void) { printf("this is a test\n"); } testing: % gcc foo.c -lc_r % ./a.out this is a test % gcc -static foo.c -lc_r % ./a.out [ hang in print ] When I compile with -static, I am unable to stop a.out from running unless I signal it with SIGKILL. Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be? -Tad From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 17:59:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12873 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:59:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12857; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:59:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199710190059.RAA12857@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists To: hm@kts.org Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: digital@www2.shoppersnet.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Oct 16, 97 08:45:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > Howard Lew wrote: > > > It appears to me that some users subscribed to the freebsd mailing lists > > are pulling email addresses from message writers here and then using > > those email addresses to send junk email. > > This is true and this is not the first time and it happenes more and more. > > I'd vote to disable majordomos feature to send out the complete list of > memebers, its useless for the normal user anyway. it is disabled. has been disabled for weeks, if not months now. we seem to be seeing a new tactic, evil spammer subscribes and harvests addresses from the list traffic. jmb ps. sorry for the late reply, i have been off the net since wednesday night. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 18:31:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14226 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from moss.verinet.com (root@moss.verinet.com [204.144.246.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14210 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (root@bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by moss.verinet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA26808 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:30:48 -0600 Received: from pragma (port80.verinet.com [204.144.246.179]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id TAA06444 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:31:22 -0600 Message-ID: <344962E6.4B14@verinet.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:31:18 -0600 From: Allen Campbell Reply-To: allenc@verinet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: XFree86 3.3.1 distribution problem References: <199710171834.LAA28906@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In the process of installing JDK1.1 on my 2.2.2 stable system, I learned that I would have to install lesstif-0.79, compat21 and at least minimal XFree86, as per the instructions at www.csi.uottawa.ca. Much thanks to those who port the JDKs. Lesstif-0.79 was included with the distribution; no problem there. I downloaded and pkg_added compat21. I then noticed that there is a newer distribution of XFree86 (3.3.1.) I downloaded the lastest version of sysinstall from new/, and attempted to install the 3.3.1 distribution via FTP. The new version of sysinstall has XFree86 3.3.1 among the canned distributions. When I tried to install select parts of the 3.3.1 distribution, sysinstall could not find the files in ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.2.2-RELEASE. It reported no error and the selections I had made in sysinstall remained selected. I then installed compat21 via FTP as a test; this worked fine. I searched the mail archives and the bug database for futher information on this problem. One reference in the bug database said I should install the distribution manually. Fine, I'll just pkg_add the parts I need: # pkg_add X33bin.tgz tar: +CONTENTS not found in archive Unable to open table of contents file `+CONTENTS' - not a package? Ok, no pkg_add. I think (as opposed to know) that the XFree86 distribution in XF8633 is not assembled by FreeBSD maintainers, so I wasn't suprised that pkg_add didn't work. However, the bug database reference I found did not specifiy _how_ to manually install. Futher searching in the mail archive said I should use the 'extract.sh' script. I hunted through ftp.freebsd.org and ftp.cdrom.com; no extract.sh. Finally, I gave up, made the /usr/X11R6 directory and untared X33bin.tgz into it. I also ran ldconfig -m /usr/X11R6/lib as per the postinst.sh script in the XFree86 3.3.1 distibution. Java is happy now. I'm not running X, so I don't need more than the libs in X33bin.tgz. What am I doing wrong? What is the recommended way to install XFree86 3.3.1 on FreeBSD 2.2.2, in case I get inspired and try to install the rest. Thanks in advance. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 18:53:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15220 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15213 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15940; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19971018185327.28769@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:53:27 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: allenc@verinet.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: XFree86 3.3.1 distribution problem References: <199710171834.LAA28906@hub.freebsd.org> <344962E6.4B14@verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <344962E6.4B14@verinet.com>; from Allen Campbell on Sat, Oct 18, 1997 at 07:31:18PM -0600 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Allen Campbell scribbled this message on Oct 18: [...] > Ok, no pkg_add. I think (as opposed to know) that the XFree86 > distribution in XF8633 is not assembled by FreeBSD maintainers, so I > wasn't suprised that pkg_add didn't work. However, the bug database > reference I found did not specifiy _how_ to manually install. Futher > searching in the mail archive said I should use the 'extract.sh' > script. I hunted through ftp.freebsd.org and ftp.cdrom.com; no > extract.sh. the problem is that you didn't read the documentation that is in the same directory as XF33{,1}bin.tgz ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/XFree86/current/binaries/FreeBSD-2.2/{FILES,README,RELNOTES,extract,preinst.sh,postinst.sh} and ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/2.2.2-RELEASE/XF38633 is just a symnlink to the above directory... > Finally, I gave up, made the /usr/X11R6 directory and untared X33bin.tgz > into it. I also ran ldconfig -m /usr/X11R6/lib as per the postinst.sh > script in the XFree86 3.3.1 distibution. if you read the docs that is one of the ways to install it... > Java is happy now. I'm not running X, so I don't need more than the > libs in X33bin.tgz. > > What am I doing wrong? What is the recommended way to install XFree86 > 3.3.1 on FreeBSD 2.2.2, in case I get inspired and try to install the > rest. as above, read the install documentation that comes with XFree86.. also.. if you installed X33bin.tgz you actually installed XFree86 version 3.3, and not 3.3.1... just so you know... hope this helps... ttyl... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 18:56:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15382 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:56:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15373 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA26868; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:56:30 -0700 (PDT) To: allenc@verinet.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: XFree86 3.3.1 distribution problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:31:18 MDT." <344962E6.4B14@verinet.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:56:30 -0700 Message-ID: <26864.877226190@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The new version of sysinstall has XFree86 3.3.1 among the canned > distributions. When I tried to install select parts of the 3.3.1 > distribution, sysinstall could not find the files in This was a bug in the distribution handling which has since been fixed, sorry. > I searched the mail archives and the bug database for futher information > on this problem. One reference in the bug database said I should > install the distribution manually. Fine, I'll just pkg_add the parts I > need: Heh, as you found out, these aren't actually packages though they are deceptively (for 8.3 reasons) given the same suffix. You're supposed to extract them according to the instructions found in README in the XF86331 directory (which is provided by the XFree86t project). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 19:09:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16036 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:09:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from intercore.com (num1sun.intercore.com [199.181.243.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16030 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:09:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robin@intercore.com) Received: (robin@localhost) by intercore.com (8.7.1/8.6.4) id WAA23972; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19971018220618.08070@num1sun.intercore.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:06:18 -0400 From: Robin Cutshaw To: allenc@verinet.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: XFree86 3.3.1 distribution problem References: <199710171834.LAA28906@hub.freebsd.org> <344962E6.4B14@verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <344962E6.4B14@verinet.com>; from Allen Campbell on Sat, Oct 18, 1997 at 07:31:18PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Oct 18, 1997 at 07:31:18PM -0600, Allen Campbell wrote: > > What am I doing wrong? What is the recommended way to install XFree86 > 3.3.1 on FreeBSD 2.2.2, in case I get inspired and try to install the > rest. > Did you read the RELNOTES file that comes with 3.3.1? If you had, all of your questions would have been answered. :-) robin -- ---- Robin Cutshaw internet: robin@interlabs.com robin@intercore.com Internet Labs, Inc. BellNet: 404-817-9787 robin@XFree86.Org "Time is just one damn thing after another" -- PBS/Nova ---- -- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 19:38:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17193 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from moss.verinet.com (root@moss.verinet.com [204.144.246.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17188 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (root@bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by moss.verinet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA27457; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:37:35 -0600 Received: from pragma (port80.verinet.com [204.144.246.179]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id UAA11705; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:38:08 -0600 Message-ID: <3449728E.CD9@verinet.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:38:06 -0600 From: Allen Campbell Reply-To: allenc@verinet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John-Mark Gurney CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: XFree86 3.3.1 distribution problem References: <199710171834.LAA28906@hub.freebsd.org> <344962E6.4B14@verinet.com> <19971018185327.28769@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > the problem is that you didn't read the documentation that is in the > same directory as XF33{,1}bin.tgz > I think I read everything _but_ that. > > if you read the docs that is one of the ways to install it... > I guessed right at least. :) Thanks all. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 21:26:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20993 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20967 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:24:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id OAA24376; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:24:13 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19971019142413.23743@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:24:13 +1000 From: David Dawes To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: where can i get 2.2.5-BETA (mirror problems) ? References: <199710172112.XAA19436@pat.idi.ntnu.no> <199710180750.IAA15529@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199710180750.IAA15529@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Sat, Oct 18, 1997 at 08:50:58AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Oct 18, 1997 at 08:50:58AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote: >> Try one of the following locations: > >the list is only partly useful -- many of these sites do not carry all >distributions, and many others seem to have major problems in mirroring >since they have only an empty directory tree. I haven't been having much success keeping ftp.au.freebsd.org up to date recently. The transfers from ftp.freebsd.org are *very* slow, and keep timing out. It seems to running close to its 2000 user limit, and maybe that's why? Can someone suggest another site to mirror from? I'm currently picking some bits up from ftp.uk.freebsd.org, but the more recent 2.2.5-*-BETA directories there are not fully populated. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 21:32:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21196 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:32:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21166 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:31:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA27620 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:32:17 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 48 hours left in 2.2.5 BETA cycle! Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:32:17 -0700 Message-ID: <27616.877235537@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk And, as things would have it, Peter has just committed a last minute syncronization patch with Matt Thomas's latest to the de driver, meaning that *anyone* with a DC21xxx based card should very definitely install 2.2.5-971018-BETA from ftp.freebsd.org or one of its mirrors as soon as possible and let us know if it *doesn't* work. If it does work, great, you've nothing to worry about for 2.2.5. If it doesn't, we need to know about it instantly! ;) Because of this change I've actually re-rolled 2.2.5-971018-BETA on releng22.freebsd.org and copied the updated BETA over to ftp.freebsd.org as well. Hopefully the mirrors will also get ahold of this in the next day or so. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 22:38:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22987 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:38:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22982 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:38:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id WAA27962 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:38:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199710190538.WAA27962@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Note: ftp.cdrom.com very busy right now due to Slackware 3.4 release Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You may wish to go directly to ftp://releng22.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD for the 2.2.5-971018-BETA snapshot. Slackware Linux 3.4 was just released and ftp.freebsd.org (AKA ftp.cdrom.com) is going to be pretty full for the next couple of days. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 22:49:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23285 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:49:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA23280 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@cyber.com.au) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA19493; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:48:32 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199710190548.PAA19493@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:48:32 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710180147.SAA15414@usr06.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 18, 97 01:47:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Terry Lambert, sie wrote > > > > > There is an API ? > > > What do you want that struct for? > > > > well, ifconfig, netstat, etc. all need it. > > > > if you're writing your own LKM for a network driver, you need it. > > > > if you're writing firewalling packet filtering code, you need it. > > > > "struct ifnet" is used in _lots_ of places. > > > > if you want to simulate kernel code, then you also need it. > > If it's used lots of places, then the API is bad. Kernel internals > should not be treated as API. > > I count your build failures as *good* things. For FreeBSD specific > code, it means I can do a grep for an _var,h file, and end up with > a list of what I need to rebuild. That is a wonderful thing. What if I mention this: I was using "struct ifnet" _WITHOUT_ wanting to look at kernel memory. Why would you want to do that, you ask. So you can more easily build userland code which interfaces with the code used in the kernel and test it that way. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 22:50:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23355 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:50:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA23350 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@cyber.com.au) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA19458; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:45:31 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199710190545.PAA19458@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.0 current fails ipfilter 3.2b8 build (fwd) To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:45:30 +1000 (EST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710180202.TAA16519@usr06.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 18, 97 02:02:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Terry Lambert, sie wrote > > > > I think that's because they are needed externally. > > > the flags word is passed around independantly of the > > > ifnet. (e.g. through the API) > > > > okay, this is the second time you're referred to the API. > > > > Where can it be found ? Who is responsible for it ? > > W. Richard Stevens. > > If the code isn't portable to Linux, SVR4, and Solaris without > compile time switches, why write it? Well, prior to these changes to FreeBSD, it was portable between *BSD/SunOS4/Solaris2 without any compile time switches - not sure about Linux. Why ? Because up until recently, all would give you "struct ifnet" if you included net/if.h. So there you have it. This makes it harder to port code to FreeBSD. Or, from the other angle, FreeBSD code is less portable. Isn't that just wonderful ? *spew* Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 18 23:33:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24544 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24539 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:33:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07326; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710190631.XAA07326@implode.root.com> To: David Dawes cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: where can i get 2.2.5-BETA (mirror problems) ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:24:13 +1000." <19971019142413.23743@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:31:21 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Sat, Oct 18, 1997 at 08:50:58AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote: >>> Try one of the following locations: >> >>the list is only partly useful -- many of these sites do not carry all >>distributions, and many others seem to have major problems in mirroring >>since they have only an empty directory tree. > >I haven't been having much success keeping ftp.au.freebsd.org up to date >recently. The transfers from ftp.freebsd.org are *very* slow, and >keep timing out. It seems to running close to its 2000 user limit, and >maybe that's why? The problem is at the PacBell NAP. Sprint and MCI have about 3 times more traffic going through their connections there than they can handle. Rumor is that Sprint will be upgrading their connection to OC3 soon, but what MCI is going to do is unknown (probably nothing). Meanwhile, things are pathetically slow if you are coming in through MCI or Sprint. There is nothing I can do about it on this end...I suggest that people complain to their service providers. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project