From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 00:21:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26108 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26103 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:21:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA23997; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:21:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971130002133.00410@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:21:33 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: John Kelly Cc: Bruce Evans , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC References: <199711292017.HAA16179@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <348095b5.441871@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <348095b5.441871@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 11:01:21PM +0000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Kelly scribbled this message on Nov 29: > I now see the value of the UNIX status register (which SIO ignores) on > my shared interrupt multiport board. The board maker did not even > document how it works, but I would guess that for each UART it has a > bit which follows the state of the UART's INT output. I may poke > around on the board to see if that's true. You could simply read the > status register to see if all eight were low and then safely exit the > ISR. And you could also avoid checking every UART every time you > enter the ISR. actually.. I have a couple AST/4 compatible boards that have 4 16550's (actually clones, and one set is even 16650's), and they have a documented status register that you can read to see if there are any pending interrupts... in the documentation they tell you that this is the way to service interrupts from the board... I've thought about upgrading sio so that it would understand the existance of it, but there were a number of problems... the status register is stored in the scratch register of the fourth port of the board... also, on the AST/4 the port to write to, to clear ALL the interrupts on the board is defined by the IRQ that the board is on (the boards that I have will ALWAYS clear no matter what port you write to, but you need to make sure it's compatible)... then you have to decide you to tell each port what it's number in the status register... you don't want to have to force some aweful hack like requiring the port number to be congruent to device number mod 4... that would just be terrible (though most people do something similar).. then to make matters worse... BOTH boards could possible be on the same interrupt, and you have to check both port 4's scratch registers to see who generated the port... after all this came to light, I stopped work on it as there really was no easy way to describe the different configurations in the flags of the device... and this was even before Bruce used another bit to store what one is the serial console... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 00:34:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26790 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:34:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26784; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:34:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA03136; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:33:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971130003340.56477@micron.mini.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:33:40 -0800 From: Jonathan Mini To: dyson@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: dirty bit in page allocations. Reply-To: Jonathan Mini Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I need to read and set the dirty bit on pages of allocated kernel memory. I allocate the memory via malloc, and then export it to the userland via mmap. What I need to do is clear and test the dirty bit on those pages. This way, I can dump only those pages which have been modified instead of the entire set of pages. What are the functions/macros/etc which will allow me to do this? -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 01:01:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA28126 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28113 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:01:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) id TAA05947; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:56:41 +1100 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:56:41 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199711300856.TAA05947@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, jak@cetlink.net Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I've thought about upgrading sio so that it would understand the >existance of it, but there were a number of problems... the status >register is stored in the scratch register of the fourth port of the >board... also, on the AST/4 the port to write to, to clear ALL the >... >then you have to decide you to tell each port what it's number in the >status register... you don't want to have to force some aweful hack >like requiring the port number to be congruent to device number mod 4... >that would just be terrible (though most people do something similar).. Doesn't the master port give it? The master port is more for control, but it is a normal h/w hack for the control and status ports to be the same. >then to make matters worse... BOTH boards could possible be on the same >interrupt, and you have to check both port 4's scratch registers to see >who generated the port... >after all this came to light, I stopped work on it as there really was >no easy way to describe the different configurations in the flags of >the device... and this was even before Bruce used another bit to store >what one is the serial console... NetBSD uses a separate driver (with just the AST-specific parts). I'm not sure how it configures a pair of boards sharing an irq. BTW, flags hacks don't work well for multiple, not explicitly configurable units. E.g., we use the flags to configure individual wd drives, but there is no way to use them for inidividual sd drives. The console flag works for individual sio ports, but can't work for indiidual cy ports. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 01:14:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA28697 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:14:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28688 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:14:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA27024; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:14:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971130011359.25067@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:13:59 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Bruce Evans Cc: jak@cetlink.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC References: <199711300856.TAA05947@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199711300856.TAA05947@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 07:56:41PM +1100 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans scribbled this message on Nov 30: > >I've thought about upgrading sio so that it would understand the > >existance of it, but there were a number of problems... the status > >register is stored in the scratch register of the fourth port of the > >board... also, on the AST/4 the port to write to, to clear ALL the > >... > >then you have to decide you to tell each port what it's number in the > >status register... you don't want to have to force some aweful hack > >like requiring the port number to be congruent to device number mod 4... > >that would just be terrible (though most people do something similar).. > > Doesn't the master port give it? The master port is more for control, > but it is a normal h/w hack for the control and status ports to be > the same. well.. assuming that you make the master port, port 4 on the board.. but there is nothing that assures us this will happen.. the only way it to document it's requirement... but this still doesn't lend an easy way to obtain the port number to sio number mappings... which need to be determined at boot time... (unless we do the hack of forcing the ports in order)... > >then to make matters worse... BOTH boards could possible be on the same > >interrupt, and you have to check both port 4's scratch registers to see > >who generated the port... > > >after all this came to light, I stopped work on it as there really was > >no easy way to describe the different configurations in the flags of > >the device... and this was even before Bruce used another bit to store > >what one is the serial console... > > NetBSD uses a separate driver (with just the AST-specific parts). I'm > not sure how it configures a pair of boards sharing an irq. seems a waste to me... all the code to manipulate the uart is already in sio... personally, I would like to see a complete rewrite of most of the hardware into two layers, the "chip interface" layer which describes how the chip interacts, and then a bus layer in how the chip is mapped to the computer... but this probably won't ever happen.. :) and probably some hardware it wouldn't work well with... but it would mean porting to a new platform would just require rewriting the bus code... and possibly create a new "bus interface" layer... > BTW, flags hacks don't work well for multiple, not explicitly configurable > units. E.g., we use the flags to configure individual wd drives, but > there is no way to use them for inidividual sd drives. The console flag > works for individual sio ports, but can't work for indiidual cy ports. yes, but in this case, each sio port has it's own sio entry... so it can apply... but if we force that the ports are in order and that the master port's scratch register be it, it would make the code VERY easy for the one board problem... then for the two board shared, we could simply reserve a bit for the "secondary" master port... and now that I think about it, this wouldn't be that hard... at the same time, I was thinking it wouldn't be hard to use a similar interface so that we only test the ports that are bound to a specific interrupt... hmm... now that I think about it, I think I'll see what I can hack together tonight... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 02:22:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA01096 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA01089 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:21:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) id VAA09201; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:19:41 +1100 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:19:41 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199711301019.VAA09201@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jak@cetlink.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >then you have to decide you to tell each port what it's number in the >> >status register... you don't want to have to force some aweful hack >> >like requiring the port number to be congruent to device number mod 4... >> >that would just be terrible (though most people do something similar).. >> >> Doesn't the master port give it? The master port is more for control, >> but it is a normal h/w hack for the control and status ports to be >> the same. > >well.. assuming that you make the master port, port 4 on the board.. >but there is nothing that assures us this will happen.. the only way >it to document it's requirement... It is documented. See sio.4. >> NetBSD uses a separate driver (with just the AST-specific parts). I'm >> not sure how it configures a pair of boards sharing an irq. > >seems a waste to me... all the code to manipulate the uart is already >in sio... IIRC, it only has the AST-specific parts (initialization and a special loop to test the status register). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 03:07:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02515 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 03:07:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02510 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 03:07:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA29334; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 03:07:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971130030719.29570@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 03:07:19 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Bruce Evans Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jak@cetlink.net Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC References: <199711301019.VAA09201@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199711301019.VAA09201@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 09:19:41PM +1100 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans scribbled this message on Nov 30: > >> >then you have to decide you to tell each port what it's number in the > >> >status register... you don't want to have to force some aweful hack > >> >like requiring the port number to be congruent to device number mod 4... > >> >that would just be terrible (though most people do something similar).. > >> > >> Doesn't the master port give it? The master port is more for control, > >> but it is a normal h/w hack for the control and status ports to be > >> the same. > > > >well.. assuming that you make the master port, port 4 on the board.. > >but there is nothing that assures us this will happen.. the only way > >it to document it's requirement... > > It is documented. See sio.4. ok, I see what you mean.. :) that's good news, but it still doesn't force that the ports be in proper order... we'll just have to document it this way if they want their AST/4 port board working.. just hope that people won't complain because they didn't have their setup correct in the first place.. > >> NetBSD uses a separate driver (with just the AST-specific parts). I'm > >> not sure how it configures a pair of boards sharing an irq. > > > >seems a waste to me... all the code to manipulate the uart is already > >in sio... > > IIRC, it only has the AST-specific parts (initialization and a special > loop to test the status register). ahh.. ok... well.. the code that I was thinking about has now been created, though it doesn't optimize in the other cases (non-AST/4) yet, but that shouldn't be hard to get working... also, I haven't actually tested this code out yet, as the machine that has the boards in it is running 2.2-960802-SNAP and I haven't upgraded it to -current yet... one really big thing that needs to be fixed is that right now, the "sub ports" are limited to 4.. but this isn't hard to fix, simply allocate space at the end of the com_s struct (dyanmicly) and point the array to this area... the code to traverse the set of ports needs to be writen... and we should by default put the local port in this area so we don't have to special case that port... patch: http://resnet.uoregon.edu:6971/~jmg/FreeBSD/ast4.patch -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 09:20:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19263 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:20:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA19247 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:20:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id SAA23454 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:20:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA06703; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:03:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971130180332.65186@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:03:32 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: land patch? Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 09:40:53AM -0800 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Tom wrote: > However, it is very unclear what the effect of the this bug was. land.c > certainly doesn't seem to hang FreeBSD, ... It hung FreeBSD for me, it looped in tcp_input(). I eventually forgot whether this was my -current or my -stable machine, i think it was -current. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 09:21:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19338 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:21:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA19331 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:21:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id SAA23471 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:21:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA06762; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:18:24 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971130181824.08382@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:18:24 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <19971126232220.5569.qmail@iq.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Alex on Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 02:29:17PM -0800 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Alex wrote: > I'm suprised nobody mentioned this earlier, but you might want to try > getvfsbyname(3). lsvfs(1) is most likely using this interface (didn't UTSL yet). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 10:08:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22107 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22102 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:08:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09251; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:07:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199711301807.KAA09251@austin.polstra.com> To: brian@awfulhak.org Subject: Re: conflict link.h dlfcn.h In-Reply-To: <199711291234.MAA24102@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> References: <199711291234.MAA24102@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:07:59 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199711291234.MAA24102@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>, Brian Somers wrote: > I also note that link.h has been removed from the sources now :-) No, link.h is still there. I just removed the function prototypes from it. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 10:50:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24668 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:50:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24659 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:50:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA14186; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd014184; Sun Nov 30 10:44:12 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:41:55 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stackable storage Alpha release In-Reply-To: <19971130191134.51029@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joerg said: > > Hmm. I hope you don't `unsupport' non-sliced disks. I'm exclusively > relying on them. I hate slices, and i particular hate the geometry > hassles resulting out of the fdisk table braindamage (C/H/S > limitations, and non-portability issues between different > controllers). So if you don't support non-sliced disks, be assured, > i'd like to help out in this area... ;-) No I support them better than they were supported before, it's just that their name (sd01, sd0b) cannot be used as aliases for SLICED partitions, (sd0s1a) (sd0s1b) in /etc/fstab, because they are very different devices.. one has one layer, while the other has 2 layers.. Supporting it is sunch a hack to to the layering that I don't want to do it. julian p.s. the patch is already out-of date .. (of course) > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 11:00:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25248 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:00:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25243 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:00:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA14388 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd014386; Sun Nov 30 10:57:57 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:55:38 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stackable storage Alpha release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > 'mount /dev' > fsck -p > ^D actually you need to do fsck -p mount /dev ^D this will be fixed in the next version (I know why it is now ) > I'm not yet sure why. > Rather than just proceding into multi-user mode, > I would suggest trying out your devices in single-user mode anyway. > > BTW SOS and Luigi.. thw patch includes > DEVFS fixes for your device drivers. > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 11:02:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25420 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:02:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25395 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:02:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-46.cetlink.net [209.54.58.46]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14499; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:02:30 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:03:34 GMT Message-ID: <3483bf52.19369575@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199711300856.TAA05947@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <19971130011359.25067@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <19971130011359.25067@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA25398 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:13:59 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >personally, I would like to see a complete rewrite of most of the hardware >into two layers, the "chip interface" layer which describes how the >chip interacts, and then a bus layer in how the chip is mapped to the >computer.. Abstraction creates inefficiencies which can be avoided in a monolithic design. And the interdependence of the SIO code with the peculiarities of the Intel PC interrupt architecture would be difficult to abstract without creating subtle or hidden flaws. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 11:02:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25430 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:02:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25409 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:02:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-46.cetlink.net [209.54.58.46]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14492; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:02:26 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stackable storage Alpha release Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:03:30 GMT Message-ID: <3481bc1a.18545261@mail.cetlink.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA25412 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:38:36 -0800 (PST), Julian Elischer wrote: >One of the things that I really didn't like about UNiX when I first >started using it was the 'disconnection' between the contents of /dev and >reality. To this end I have been working in the background on DEVFS. A >device filesystem which allows (in fact requires) the device drivers to >keep the exported picture of available devices in sync with what is >actually attached. Being relatively new, I don't know much about DEVFS. Can you explain the advantages of the above? John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 11:02:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25438 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25402 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:02:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-46.cetlink.net [209.54.58.46]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14495; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:02:28 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:03:33 GMT Message-ID: <3482bd16.18797696@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199711292017.HAA16179@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <348095b5.441871@mail.cetlink.net> <19971130002133.00410@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <19971130002133.00410@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA25415 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:21:33 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >I've thought about upgrading sio so that it would understand the >existance of it, but there were a number of problems... the status >register is stored in the scratch register of the fourth port of the >board... also, on the AST/4 the port to write to, to clear ALL the >interrupts When you say "to clear ALL the interrupts," are you talking about an AST-style control register? My board only has a status register, so I don't understand the notion of clearing interrupts by writing to a port. Can you explain the use of an AST-style control register? John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 11:03:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25503 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:03:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25448 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:02:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-46.cetlink.net [209.54.58.46]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14503; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:02:31 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Bruce Evans , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:03:35 GMT Message-ID: <3484c18f.19943322@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199711301019.VAA09201@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <19971130030719.29570@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <19971130030719.29570@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA25468 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 03:07:19 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >ok, I see what you mean.. :) that's good news, but it still doesn't >force that the ports be in proper order... we'll just have to document >it this way if they want their AST/4 port board working.. just hope that >people won't complain because they didn't have their setup correct in >the first place.. In the section discussing IRQ control and status registers, the man page only mentions four ports per interrupt sharing "group." It also says that "control and status registers for a group, if any, must be mapped to the scratch register (register 7) of a port in the group. Such a port is called a master port." With only eight bits in the scratch register, mapping both a control and status register to it will limit your interrupt sharing group to a maximum of four ports. A software design based on that hardware configuration seems too restrictive. Eight port boards which share a single IRQ are common now. The board I have does not even use the idea of mapping. You simply jumper it to select an unused I/O address where the status port will appear. It renders obsolete the idea of a "master" port. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 11:16:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26545 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:16:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26529; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id OAA01128; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:16:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199711301916.OAA01128@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: dirty bit in page allocations. In-Reply-To: <19971130003340.56477@micron.mini.net> from Jonathan Mini at "Nov 30, 97 00:33:40 am" To: j_mini@efn.org Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:16:28 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan Mini said: > I need to read and set the dirty bit on pages of allocated kernel memory. I > allocate the memory via malloc, and then export it to the userland via mmap. > What I need to do is clear and test the dirty bit on those pages. This way, I > can dump only those pages which have been modified instead of the entire set > of pages. > What are the functions/macros/etc which will allow me to do this? > What, exactly, are you trying to do? (I am not trying to be snotty or anything, but there are easy ways to do certain things, and more difficult ways :-)). I might be able to help you put something together that is easy. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 11:24:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27329 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:24:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (node5.tfs.net [207.2.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27292 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:24:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA00549 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:23:12 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199711301923.NAA00549@unix.tfs.net> Subject: 3.0-snap To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:22:48 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk is there anything that would keep me from simply cvsupping 3.0-snap and compiling locally as opposed to downloading the binary dists and boot floppies? have any of the filesystems changed to such an extent as to make this impossible? jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 12:19:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01398 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from super.zippo.com (perry.zippo.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01376 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:19:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reyesf@super.zippo.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by super.zippo.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) id MAA05400; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:19:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711302019.MAA05400@super.zippo.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 15:12:17 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering how is the selection made of what goes into the CDrom? Is the CVS repository used by most users or just a few? Personally I find that it would have been more useful to have the sources for all the programs somewhere (ie a second live file system CD) in an untar format. Alternatively a list of where the sources are in the first CD and a small script to get a program out would be just as good. For example recently I wanted to look at the source code for "renice". Getting the entire usr.bin took too much space. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 12:19:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01494 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:19:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01476 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:19:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from francisco@natserv.com) Received: from slip-32-100-111-48.ny.us.ibm.net (slip-32-100-111-48.ny.us.ibm.net [32.100.111.48]) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA24872 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:19:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711302019.PAA24872@federation.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 15:16:59 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In terms of compilers (ie C/C++) or interpreter(perl, shells) what can be considered to be always or at least usually be included in FreeBSD? As part of a minimal install is Perl included? I am asking because I am thinking of creating some (very simple) scripts/programs to aid in installation/day to day use of FreeBSD. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 12:19:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01511 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:19:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01490 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:19:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from francisco@natserv.com) Received: from slip-32-100-111-48.ny.us.ibm.net (slip-32-100-111-48.ny.us.ibm.net [32.100.111.48]) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA24867 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:19:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711302019.PAA24867@federation.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 15:12:17 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering how is the selection made of what goes into the CDrom? Is the CVS repository used by most users or just a few? Personally I find that it would have been more useful to have the sources for all the programs somewhere (ie a second live file system CD) in an untar format. Alternatively a list of where the sources are in the first CD and a small script to get a program out would be just as good. For example recently I wanted to look at the source code for "renice". Getting the entire usr.bin took too much space. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 12:30:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02424 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02418 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03137; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:30:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971130123015.27690@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:30:15 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: John Kelly Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC References: <199711292017.HAA16179@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <348095b5.441871@mail.cetlink.net> <19971130002133.00410@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <3482bd16.18797696@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <3482bd16.18797696@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 08:03:33PM +0000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Kelly scribbled this message on Nov 30: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:21:33 -0800, John-Mark Gurney > wrote: > > >I've thought about upgrading sio so that it would understand the > >existance of it, but there were a number of problems... the status > >register is stored in the scratch register of the fourth port of the > >board... also, on the AST/4 the port to write to, to clear ALL the > >interrupts > > When you say "to clear ALL the interrupts," are you talking about an > AST-style control register? My board only has a status register, so I > don't understand the notion of clearing interrupts by writing to a > port. Can you explain the use of an AST-style control register? yes... the board that I have is an AST/4 compatible board... and the Shared Interrupt Clear Register (sicr) is used to clear the interrupt when you have more than one board sitting on the interrupt (these boards are documented to work if both 4port boards are on the same interrupts).. this will force both boards to ground out, and then the interrupt controller will be able to see the next edge... also, the port you write to is suppose to be determined by the irq that the boards are on, but the boards I have will listen to all the ports and clear the interrupt if you have the boards configured to share interrupts.. then they also have the status register that your familar with.. a simple register that sets the bit of the ports that have an interrupt pending... this is mapped to the scratch register of the fourth port... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 12:45:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03341 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:45:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03335 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03171; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:45:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971130124508.58609@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:45:08 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: John Kelly Cc: Bruce Evans , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC References: <199711301019.VAA09201@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <19971130030719.29570@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <3484c18f.19943322@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <3484c18f.19943322@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 08:03:35PM +0000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Kelly scribbled this message on Nov 30: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 03:07:19 -0800, John-Mark Gurney > wrote: > > >ok, I see what you mean.. :) that's good news, but it still doesn't > >force that the ports be in proper order... we'll just have to document > >it this way if they want their AST/4 port board working.. just hope that > >people won't complain because they didn't have their setup correct in > >the first place.. > > In the section discussing IRQ control and status registers, the man > page only mentions four ports per interrupt sharing "group." It also actually, the document only gives examples that have four ports per interrupt sharing "group"... and this is the case for AST/4 boards too.. but there is a special option that allows you to put two AST/4 boards on the same interrupt, and this is then the sharred or common irq (as per the docs on the board I have)... > says that "control and status registers for a group, if any, must be > mapped to the scratch register (register 7) of a port in the group. > Such a port is called a master port." I forgot to mention that there is also a bit in the scratch register that must be set on the AST/4 boards before the global interrupt (for that board) is enabled.. > With only eight bits in the scratch register, mapping both a control > and status register to it will limit your interrupt sharing group to a > maximum of four ports. yes, but the thing is that when you have two boards on the same interrupt, you actually have to poll BOTH status registers of each board to find out what interrupts to serve.. there is no cross talk between the boards so that you can read one port, and each will contribute the bits for the ports on that board... > A software design based on that hardware configuration seems too > restrictive. Eight port boards which share a single IRQ are common > now. The board I have does not even use the idea of mapping. You > simply jumper it to select an unused I/O address where the status port > will appear. It renders obsolete the idea of a "master" port. yes, but the design isn't just limited to four ports (though it is right now)... and it doesn't even support the non-AST/4 board case either... I only wrote it that way because I felt like hacking on the code for an hour or two last night... if you noticed, I included (in the message) a way to support 16 ports boards, though it doesn't support the status registers of such boards yet... I just hope that there is a standard for these, else we will definately run out of bits in the flags... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 12:52:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03879 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:52:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03874 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:52:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03189; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:52:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971130125201.44588@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:52:01 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: j_mini@efn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dirty bit in page allocations. References: <19971130003340.56477@micron.mini.net> <199711301916.OAA01128@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199711301916.OAA01128@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 02:16:28PM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson scribbled this message on Nov 30: > Jonathan Mini said: > > I need to read and set the dirty bit on pages of allocated kernel memory. I > > allocate the memory via malloc, and then export it to the userland via mmap. > > What I need to do is clear and test the dirty bit on those pages. This way, I > > can dump only those pages which have been modified instead of the entire set > > of pages. > > What are the functions/macros/etc which will allow me to do this? > > > What, exactly, are you trying to do? (I am not trying to be snotty or anything, > but there are easy ways to do certain things, and more difficult ways :-)). I > might be able to help you put something together that is easy. well... since Mini is still a sleep... basicly he is writing code that will use the VBE spec to interface with the video card and display graphics... as the spec doesn't force the card to have a linear frame buffer he is writing code that will "simulate" a linear frame buffer for the application.. he then needs to find out what pages in the simulated linear frame buffer has been modified and only write those pages out to the video card... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 13:13:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05080 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:13:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05074 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:12:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-46.cetlink.net [209.54.58.46]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23144; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:12:38 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:13:42 GMT Message-ID: <3481e273.28365467@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199711301019.VAA09201@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <19971130030719.29570@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <3484c18f.19943322@mail.cetlink.net> <19971130124508.58609@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <19971130124508.58609@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA05075 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:45:08 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >actually, the document only gives examples that have four ports per >interrupt sharing "group"... and this is the case for AST/4 boards too.. >but there is a special option that allows you to put two AST/4 boards >on the same interrupt, and this is then the sharred or common irq Without some extra wires running between the two boards I don't know how they can share an IRQ line. Can you explain how they implement that , hardware wise? >yes, but the thing is that when you have two boards on the same interrupt, >you actually have to poll BOTH status registers of each board to find >out what interrupts to serve Makes sense ... but two boards trying to talk on the same IRQ line, without extra wires, makes no sense to me. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 13:14:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05253 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:14:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05237 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA21894; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:14:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:14:03 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Francisco Reyes cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? In-Reply-To: <199711302019.MAA05400@super.zippo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I was wondering how is the selection made of what goes into the > CDrom? > Is the CVS repository used by most users or just a few? > > Personally I find that it would have been more useful to have the > sources for all the programs somewhere (ie a second live file system > CD) in an untar format. Alternatively a list of where the sources are > in the first CD and a small script to get a program out would be just > as good. For example recently I wanted to look at the source code for > "renice". Getting the entire usr.bin took too much space. > You know that the source for renice (and all the other parts of FreeBSD) are inside that CVS archive? cvs is really complicated to learn, but pretty well worth it. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 13:20:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05677 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05667 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:20:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03324; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:20:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971130132004.41489@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:20:04 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: John Kelly Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 650 UART, SIO driver, 8259 PIC References: <199711301019.VAA09201@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <19971130030719.29570@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <3484c18f.19943322@mail.cetlink.net> <19971130124508.58609@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <3481e273.28365467@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <3481e273.28365467@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 10:13:42PM +0000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Kelly scribbled this message on Nov 30: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:45:08 -0800, John-Mark Gurney > wrote: > > >actually, the document only gives examples that have four ports per > >interrupt sharing "group"... and this is the case for AST/4 boards too.. > >but there is a special option that allows you to put two AST/4 boards > >on the same interrupt, and this is then the sharred or common irq > > Without some extra wires running between the two boards I don't know > how they can share an IRQ line. Can you explain how they implement > that , hardware wise? sorry, I don't have the boards readily avaliable (they are in my term server that provides inet connection, which is under a speaker, in a corner of my room :) )... plus, about the best I could do is give you some part numbers off the board, and then you would have to tell me which traces to trace... the boards that I'm using are ValuePort V4... they are made by Computone if that would help any... they do have a web site, and their cards included SCO drivers... > >yes, but the thing is that when you have two boards on the same interrupt, > >you actually have to poll BOTH status registers of each board to find > >out what interrupts to serve > > Makes sense ... but two boards trying to talk on the same IRQ line, > without extra wires, makes no sense to me. I think the key is the shared interrupt clear register... but as I said, I am not a low level hardware person... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 13:33:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06700 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:33:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from super.zippo.com (perry.zippo.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06691 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:33:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reyesf@super.zippo.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by super.zippo.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) id NAA11517; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:33:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711302133.NAA11517@super.zippo.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Chuck Robey" Cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 16:35:19 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:14:03 -0500 (EST), Chuck Robey wrote: >You know that the source for renice (and all the other parts of FreeBSD) >are inside that CVS archive? cvs is really complicated to learn, but >pretty well worth it. After someone explained to me what the 3rd CD was I understood. However doesn't it also has many previous releases? How useful is it for the "average" user to have several versions back each source? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 13:46:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07623 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:46:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07611 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:46:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA21981; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:45:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:45:35 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Francisco Reyes cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? In-Reply-To: <199711302133.NAA11517@super.zippo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:14:03 -0500 (EST), Chuck Robey wrote: > > >You know that the source for renice (and all the other parts of FreeBSD) > >are inside that CVS archive? cvs is really complicated to learn, but > >pretty well worth it. > > After someone explained to me what the 3rd CD was I understood. > However doesn't it also has many previous releases? How useful is it > for the "average" user to have several versions back each source? All the sources you asked for are already there, in the distfiles, on the cd. All the FreeBSD sources are there too, broken out file by file, by cvs. I probably am wrong here, but it _seems_ like you want parts removed only because you don't use them. What you want to replace them with, you already have. Many people do use the cvs archive. I wanted it badly, then finally broke down and bought a large enough disk so that I keep the full tree here at home. Wouldn't have done that, if the cvs archive had been on the CDROM back then. Lots of folks don't want that on their disks, tho, and would still like to peruse the sources. Explain again what parts you want, that you don't have? People are interested in that, sure, I know Jordan is. > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 14:08:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08865 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:08:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08858 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:08:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA26227 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:07:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA07568; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:58:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971130225858.49104@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:58:58 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199711302019.PAA24867@federation.addy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199711302019.PAA24867@federation.addy.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 03:12:17PM +0000 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Francisco Reyes wrote: > Alternatively a list of where the sources are > in the first CD and a small script to get a program out would be just > as good. For example recently I wanted to look at the source code for > "renice". Getting the entire usr.bin took too much space. Where's what shouldn't be that hard to guess, since the various source tarballs just represent the subdirs of /usr/src, which are in turn closely related (though not 100 % sure) to the target directory in the tree. Suppose you're looking for the source of /bin/ls, it'll be in /usr/src/bin/ls. Or /usr/sbin/ppp can be found in /usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp. That's all explained in hier(7). Finally, the various s.?? files are just split .tar.gz files, so you can always extract from there what you want. That's rather a Unix beginner's exercise. ;-) (<== "non-aggressive smiley" :-) So for your example "renice": j@uriah 164% whereis -b renice renice: /usr/bin/renice Ok, we need the /usr/src/usr.bin/ tarball then ("subin" == "src/usr.bin"): j@uriah 165% cd /usr/src j@uriah 166% cat /cdrom/src/subin.?? | tar -xvzf - usr.bin/renice usr.bin/renice/ usr.bin/renice/CVS/ usr.bin/renice/CVS/Root usr.bin/renice/CVS/Repository usr.bin/renice/CVS/Entries usr.bin/renice/CVS/Tag usr.bin/renice/Makefile usr.bin/renice/renice.8 usr.bin/renice/renice.c (If you don't want the CVS/ files, add "--exclude CVS" to the tar options.) Disclaimer: my 2.2.5 CDs didn't arrive yet, so i don't know what's there on which CD at all. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 14:08:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08885 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:08:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08870 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA26231 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:08:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA07581; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:01:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971130230136.00664@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:01:36 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199711302019.PAA24872@federation.addy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199711302019.PAA24872@federation.addy.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 03:16:59PM +0000 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Francisco Reyes wrote: > In terms of compilers (ie C/C++) or interpreter(perl, shells) what > can be considered to be always or at least usually be included in > FreeBSD? As part of a minimal install is Perl included? Perl is included, although by now still Perl 4 (*). sh and csh are there, tcl is there starting with FreeBSD 3.0 (which is, of course, not yet available :). C and C++ are there, of course. f77 is there. ;-) (*) Don't rely on this version, and better write your scripts so they can work under both, Perl 4 and 5. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 14:28:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10221 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:28:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10211 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (dialin1.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.254.101]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA13769 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:28:21 -0700 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:27:48 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sa_len field of struct sockaddr Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm discovering that the sa_len field of the sockaddr structure is not too portable across different Unix operating systems (OSF1 v4.0 optionally uses it; Linux and SunOS are oblivious to it). I am currently puzzling over how to use autoconf. If anyone has an GNU configure method or something else for dealing with this, I would be curious to see it. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 14:33:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10543 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:33:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10537 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA17751; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:33:13 -0800 (PST) To: "Francisco Reyes" cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:12:17." <199711302019.MAA05400@super.zippo.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:33:12 -0800 Message-ID: <17747.880929192@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was wondering how is the selection made of what goes into the > CDrom? I decide, it goes on. :) > Is the CVS repository used by most users or just a few? I'd say it's fairly useful to many, though I forgot to document the read-only repository variable in the README this time. Oh well, next time! > Personally I find that it would have been more useful to have the > sources for all the programs somewhere (ie a second live file system They are! Did you even look in usr/src? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 14:41:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11055 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:41:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11049 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:41:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA17795; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:41:19 -0800 (PST) To: Chuck Robey cc: Francisco Reyes , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:45:35 EST." Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:41:18 -0800 Message-ID: <17791.880929678@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > All the sources you asked for are already there, in the distfiles, on the > cd. All the FreeBSD sources are there too, broken out file by file, by To be more exact, the "sources" are there in not one but 3 different ways: 1. In distribution form on the 1st CD (src/*) 2. In unpacked form on the 2nd CD (usr/src/*) 3. In CVS form on the 3rd CD (CVS-Repository/src/*) Even the sources for X are unpacked on the 2nd CD (usr/X11R6/xc) and I really think I covered all the bases this time, if I could only get people to actually read the READMEs on each CD which do list contents like this! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 15:25:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13311 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:25:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13305 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:25:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id SAA02089; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:24:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199711302324.SAA02089@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Nov 30, 97 04:14:03 pm" To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:24:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: reyesf@super.zippo.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey said: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > I was wondering how is the selection made of what goes into the > > CDrom? > > Is the CVS repository used by most users or just a few? > > > > Personally I find that it would have been more useful to have the > > sources for all the programs somewhere (ie a second live file system > > CD) in an untar format. Alternatively a list of where the sources are > > in the first CD and a small script to get a program out would be just > > as good. For example recently I wanted to look at the source code for > > "renice". Getting the entire usr.bin took too much space. > > > > You know that the source for renice (and all the other parts of FreeBSD) > are inside that CVS archive? cvs is really complicated to learn, but > pretty well worth it. > For the average CVS user (commits/checkouts/adds) like me, CVS is plainly simple to use. It appears that sometimes it is necessary to do some fancy dancing though, but just to retrieve various versions of the code, CVS usage is trivial (as it should be.) -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 15:29:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13520 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:29:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13512 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:29:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00257; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:29:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199711302329.PAA00257@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Chuck Robey , Francisco Reyes , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:41:18 PST." <17791.880929678@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:29:27 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sounds to me like a FreeBSD out of the box experience program . Who knows even an mpeg movie and you can use Randall's fxtv to do just that 8) Cheers, Amancio > > All the sources you asked for are already there, in the distfiles, on the > > cd. All the FreeBSD sources are there too, broken out file by file, by > > To be more exact, the "sources" are there in not one but 3 different > ways: > > 1. In distribution form on the 1st CD (src/*) > 2. In unpacked form on the 2nd CD (usr/src/*) > 3. In CVS form on the 3rd CD (CVS-Repository/src/*) > > Even the sources for X are unpacked on the 2nd CD (usr/X11R6/xc) and > I really think I covered all the bases this time, if I could only get > people to actually read the READMEs on each CD which do list contents > like this! :-) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 15:30:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13687 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [207.105.15.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13668 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:30:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18088 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:30:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Message-Id: <199711302330.PAA18088@precipice.shockwave.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: dhcp client for freebsd? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:30:44 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone done or started work on a DHCP client for FreeBSD? I noticed that there's one for Linux now (dhcpdc-0.70)...? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 15:57:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15134 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:57:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15121 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:57:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA25111; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:02:32 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma025108; Sun, 30 Nov 97 18:02:25 -0600 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:02:25 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Joerg Wunsch cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <19971130230136.00664@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wish Python would be included as well ... but then I guess that everyone wishes that their fav language was included. Though Python'd probably be more useful than FORTRAN :-) One of the few things I like about Red Hat Linux is that it has python preinstalled! Jacques Vidrine On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > In terms of compilers (ie C/C++) or interpreter(perl, shells) what > > can be considered to be always or at least usually be included in > > FreeBSD? As part of a minimal install is Perl included? > > Perl is included, although by now still Perl 4 (*). sh and csh are > there, tcl is there starting with FreeBSD 3.0 (which is, of course, > not yet available :). C and C++ are there, of course. f77 is > there. ;-) > > (*) Don't rely on this version, and better write your scripts so they > can work under both, Perl 4 and 5. > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 16:22:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16531 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:22:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16513 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:21:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00960; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:19:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:19:56 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: "John S. Dyson" cc: reyesf@super.zippo.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? In-Reply-To: <199711302324.SAA02089@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, John S. Dyson wrote: > Chuck Robey said: > > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > > > I was wondering how is the selection made of what goes into the > > > CDrom? > > > Is the CVS repository used by most users or just a few? > > > > > > Personally I find that it would have been more useful to have the > > > sources for all the programs somewhere (ie a second live file system > > > CD) in an untar format. Alternatively a list of where the sources are > > > in the first CD and a small script to get a program out would be just > > > as good. For example recently I wanted to look at the source code for > > > "renice". Getting the entire usr.bin took too much space. > > > > > > > You know that the source for renice (and all the other parts of FreeBSD) > > are inside that CVS archive? cvs is really complicated to learn, but > > pretty well worth it. > > > > For the average CVS user (commits/checkouts/adds) like me, CVS is plainly > simple to use. It appears that sometimes it is necessary to do some fancy > dancing though, but just to retrieve various versions of the code, CVS > usage is trivial (as it should be.) > John, compare the cvs flags with the flags for something more common user-ish, like maybe ls. I don't know, is there _any_ other program so broken that it uses multiple sets of flags, whose context changes with subcommands? I know how to use it, but the complication, and difficulty in getting a running start, coupled with the extreme embarrassment of what happens if a mistake is committed, kept _me_ from using one for a while. Winter project for me (note to personal whiteboard): write a simple cvs user manual. Maybe not complete, but enough to get things going for the average user! > > -- > John > dyson@freebsd.org > jdyson@nc.com > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 17:19:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19752 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:19:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-12.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19730 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:19:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05261 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:20:29 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:20:28 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <199711302329.PAA00257@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Sounds to me like a FreeBSD out of the box experience program . Who > knows even an mpeg movie and you can use Randall's fxtv to do just that 8) Speaking of an out of box experience, KDE works quite nicely. It's kinda a CDE/Motif meets Win95 type thing, with a bunch of little applets for stuff from user managment to basic text editing to games. I think this would make a nice "X" enviroment for a graphical sysinstall. All of which might make using FreeBSD a less daunting desktop (or even server) OS. www.kde.org "Every finger in the room is pointing at me" Tori Amos - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 18:30:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23491 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:30:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23484 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xcLTO-0003p0-00; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:20:34 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:20:32 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Jim Bryant cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0-snap In-Reply-To: <199711301923.NAA00549@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > is there anything that would keep me from simply cvsupping 3.0-snap > and compiling locally as opposed to downloading the binary dists and > boot floppies? > > have any of the filesystems changed to such an extent as to make this > impossible? This really belongs on freebsd-questions There is no problem compiling the system yourself, after all that is how snaps are made. > jim > -- (insanely long signature removed) Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 18:53:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25110 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:53:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25094 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:53:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00456; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:17:42 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712010247.NAA00456@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jacques Vidrine cc: Joerg Wunsch , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:02:25 MDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:17:42 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I wish Python would be included as well ... but then I guess that everyone > wishes that their fav language was included. It's right there on the CD, along with dozens of other pet languages. > Though Python'd probably be more useful than FORTRAN :-) Given the responses I've received to my occasionaly luser queries about Fortran, I would be inclined to say that there is probably still more Fortran code doing more Real Work on FreeBSD than Python code. > One of the few things I like about Red Hat Linux is that it has python > preinstalled! This is merely because their moderately sucky(*) package management system uses it. mike (*) This is in contrast to our extremely sucky package management system. 8) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 18:54:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25280 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:54:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25267 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:54:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA18634; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:54:38 -0800 (PST) To: Paul Traina cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:30:44 PST." <199711302330.PAA18088@precipice.shockwave.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:54:38 -0800 Message-ID: <18630.880944878@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone done or started work on a DHCP client for FreeBSD? I noticed that > there's one for Linux now (dhcpdc-0.70)...? There are numerous ones for FreeBSD, not least of which being the one from the WIDE project which has been around for ages, but I also noticed that a client is in the NetBSD sources and would probably be easy to bring across on account of the fact that it's already conveniently bmake'd and all. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 19:23:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27384 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27376 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:23:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA25366; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:28:36 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma025362; Sun, 30 Nov 97 21:28:20 -0600 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:28:20 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Mike Smith cc: Joerg Wunsch , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199712010247.NAA00456@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Duh, I may have been lost, I wasn't thinking about what is on the CD :-) I was thinking about what is installed in the "User" package, et. al. perl4 is, for example. Hmm, maybe I wasn't lost, I think the original question was regarding what is generally available in any installation? pkg_* works well for me, and AFAIK there isn't anything like the ports collection for Red Hat. I wouldn't trade it for RPM. I'm sure lines of FORTRAN code outnumber lines of Python code considerably. Though I believe that Python is giving FORTRAN and C a run for their money when it comes to numeric programming. But this conversation doesn't belong on this list. Later! Jacques Vidrine On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > I wish Python would be included as well ... but then I guess that everyone > > wishes that their fav language was included. > > It's right there on the CD, along with dozens of other pet languages. > > > Though Python'd probably be more useful than FORTRAN :-) > > Given the responses I've received to my occasionaly luser queries about > Fortran, I would be inclined to say that there is probably still more > Fortran code doing more Real Work on FreeBSD than Python code. > > > One of the few things I like about Red Hat Linux is that it has python > > preinstalled! > > This is merely because their moderately sucky(*) package management > system uses it. > > mike > > (*) This is in contrast to our extremely sucky package management > system. 8) > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 19:25:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27530 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:25:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27525 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:25:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA25384; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:31:06 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma025381; Sun, 30 Nov 97 21:31:02 -0600 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:31:01 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Alex cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Only KDE depends upon Qt, which doesn't have an appropriate software license. Jacques Vidrine On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Alex wrote: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Speaking of an out of box experience, KDE works quite nicely. It's kinda > a CDE/Motif meets Win95 type thing, with a bunch of little applets for > stuff from user managment to basic text editing to games. I think this > would make a nice "X" enviroment for a graphical sysinstall. All of which > might make using FreeBSD a less daunting desktop (or even server) OS. > > > www.kde.org > > "Every finger in the room is pointing at me" Tori Amos > > - alex > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 19:33:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA28007 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:33:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from inga.augusta.de (root@inga.augusta.de [193.175.23.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27989 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:33:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rabbit!shanee@inga.augusta.de) Received: from rabbit by inga.augusta.de with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0xcMd3-004d4UC; Mon, 1 Dec 97 04:34 MET Received: by rabbit.augusta.de via sendmail with stdio id for david@lambton.on.ca; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:10:28 +0100 (CET) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built DST-May-22) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:10:28 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Reply-To: shanee@augusta.de Organization: Privat Site running FreeBSD-current X-Mail-Attention: It is forbidden by law to send unwanted mail to this account! References: <199711280742.IAA11480@sos.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: From: shanee@augusta.de (Andreas Kohout) Subject: Re: LM78 what port # ?? X-Original-Newsgroups: muc.lists.freebsd.hackers To: david@lambton.on.ca (David Grant) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , david@lambton.on.ca (David Grant) writes: DG> The ASUS motherboards are at 0x290 on the isa bus. I haven't DG> started writing code yet. Anyone else working on this? there is a kernel-module for Linux, maybe that help you ... http://pweb.uunet.de/ganzfix.duew/txwd-0.0.4.tar.gz and a modul for LM78 over IO-Port is under http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/beowulf/software/lm78-0.1.tar.gz -- Greetings, Andy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- running FreeBSD-current () /\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 19:35:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA28211 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:35:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28192 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:35:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00602; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:00:10 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712010330.OAA00602@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stackable storage Alpha release In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:03:30 GMT." <3481bc1a.18545261@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:00:10 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >One of the things that I really didn't like about UNiX when I first > >started using it was the 'disconnection' between the contents of /dev and > >reality. To this end I have been working in the background on DEVFS. A > >device filesystem which allows (in fact requires) the device drivers to > >keep the exported picture of available devices in sync with what is > >actually attached. > > Being relatively new, I don't know much about DEVFS. Can you explain > the advantages of the above? In the current model, device nodes are entities on the disk. If you add a new driver, you have to add new device nodes manually (hello MAKEDEV). With DEVFS, the process whereby a driver attaches a device automatically creates the relevant node(s). This is a big win for dynamic hardware (PCCARDs, removable disk media, etc.) mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 19:38:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA28591 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:38:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [207.105.15.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28586 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:38:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21671; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Message-Id: <199712010338.TAA21671@precipice.shockwave.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:54:38 PST." <18630.880944878@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:38:10 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oh, cool, I didn't see the netbsd one. The WIDE isn't....so good. From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? > Has anyone done or started work on a DHCP client for FreeBSD? I noticed th >>at > there's one for Linux now (dhcpdc-0.70)...? There are numerous ones for FreeBSD, not least of which being the one from the WIDE project which has been around for ages, but I also noticed that a client is in the NetBSD sources and would probably be easy to bring across on account of the fact that it's already conveniently bmake'd and all. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 19:42:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA29150 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:42:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29141 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:42:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA18860; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:41:51 -0800 (PST) To: Mike Smith cc: Jacques Vidrine , Joerg Wunsch , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:17:42 +1030." <199712010247.NAA00456@word.smith.net.au> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:41:50 -0800 Message-ID: <18856.880947710@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (*) This is in contrast to our extremely sucky package management > system. 8) Well, that's only because we're still waiting for your plan for the next version, Mr. package project architect. :-) [ooh, I've just been *itching* to shed that hat! ;)] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 20:04:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00628 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00622 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:04:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07054; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:09:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd007037; Sun Nov 30 21:09:57 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA03532; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:04:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712010404.VAA03532@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 04:04:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dk+@ua.net, proff@iq.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 28, 97 10:10:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You can do the same thing by doing a stat of /dev and looking > > for an st_ino of 2. > > actually no, as the root ino in devfs is not 2, and the ino for .. > IS 2 regardless of what FS it is.. The ino for the root directory (.) in any FS should be 2. This is part and parcel of making the backup/restore utilities work. > > The devices themselves, especially in the new SLICE stuff that > > he's done, should be self-referrential. I'm still trying to > > talk him into putting them in a hierarchy (with little success... > > you SVR4 device name traditionalists can rest easy: you still get > > you have your long cryptic device names for now...). > > A hierarchy is good but has the following problems > > 1/ violates "Principle of least surprise" (POLS) I disagree (big surprise ;-)). I think /dev/sd1c1d2t0 violates the principle... At least with a hierarchy, you get a hierarchy in /dev that matches the hierarchy on disk. Better to have a valid map with a "you are here.." than an invalid map, IMO... > 2/ if you have /dev/disk/sd0/slice1/partA, then how do you access > /dev/disk/sd0? because htat is a directory. You make a distinction between VOP_READWRITE nad VOP_READDIR. This is a pretty trival distinction to make, since you don't allow directories, per se, in devfs, without them being parent devices. That naming is pretty bad, BTW. ;-). > you need to either: > (A) make devfs allow devices to respond to directory operations.. > and therefore confuse everybody.. Not really... it's pretty obvious that subdirectories = subdevices. Both have "sub" in them... > "hey if /dev/disk/sd0 is a device, how can /dev/disk/sd0/slice1 exist?" The better question is "how can '/dev/disk/sd0' exist". The answer is that each parent is also a device. The devfs is *not* a normal FS; we already knew this, > /dev/disk/sd0/slice1 > /dev/disk/sd0/slice1/all <--device I dislike this distinction. Any time you make aliases, you damage the model (the same reason I'm against links in devfs). > If objection 1 violates POLS, then solution (A) REALLY violates it, > though if we were designing a new OS that's what I would do. > (it's easy to do) I don't think your "if" is true, so your "then" isn't true, either. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 20:07:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00773 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:07:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from super.zippo.com (perry.zippo.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00767 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:07:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reyesf@super.zippo.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by super.zippo.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) id UAA11973; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:07:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712010407.UAA11973@super.zippo.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "j@uriah.heep.sax.de" , "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 23:07:23 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:25:49 -0800 (PST), owner-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: >Perl is included, although by now still Perl 4 >(*) Don't rely on this version, and better write your scripts so they >can work under both, Perl 4 and 5. What do you mean by not relying on that version? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 20:12:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA01157 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:12:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@haiti-96.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01152 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:12:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA13777; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:13:09 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Jacques Vidrine cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > Only KDE depends upon Qt, which doesn't have an appropriate software > license. I think the basics are free for free software. Can't modify the source for your needs. You can extend the classes. I think these details were worked out when someone proposed kde on a cd. I also recall a discussion about a KDE Linux distrib. ;-) - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 20:31:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02262 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.96.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02250 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:31:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA16531; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:31:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:30:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Paul Traina , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? In-Reply-To: <18630.880944878@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > There are numerous ones for FreeBSD, not least of which being the one > from the WIDE project which has been around for ages, but I also > noticed that a client is in the NetBSD sources and would probably > be easy to bring across on account of the fact that it's already > conveniently bmake'd and all. :-) How about the MOP utilities that NetBSD has? Those would be useful as well. /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 20:35:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02548 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:35:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02542 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:35:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA19166; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:35:17 -0800 (PST) To: Jacques Vidrine cc: Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:31:01 CST." Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:35:17 -0800 Message-ID: <19162.880950917@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Only KDE depends upon Qt, which doesn't have an appropriate software > license. Oh, I dunno about this. I think that people should be willing to be just a bit more flexible where these sorts of "use it for something free, get it free - use it for something commercial, pay some money" licenses are concerned since it takes a high degree of flexibility for any company to even *think* about doing something like this. It's also fairly clear that getting other companies to adopt similarly free-software friendly licenses like this, giving access to their full source code on the net (!) as TrollTech does, won't be made any easier if the free software people themselves react negatively to the idea and adopt a strict no-compromise policy. If anything is going to result in any real changes in this industry, it's going to be a willingness to compromise on *both* sides of the licensing issue so that neither "side" feels that the other is trying to force their ideologies on it at gunpoint. I like the Qt copyright and wish Trolltech every degree of success with it. I'd like to see a lot more of that kind of thing in the industry, frankly. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 20:37:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02807 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:37:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02794 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA25635; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:42:38 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma025631; Sun, 30 Nov 97 22:42:15 -0600 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:42:15 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Alex cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, you heard discussion about a Linux KDE distrib, but at least the FSF doesn't want anything to do with it. Qt is free for non-commercial purposes. This doesn't seem compatible with the Berkely license. Jacques Vidrine On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Alex wrote: > > > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > > > > Only KDE depends upon Qt, which doesn't have an appropriate software > > license. > > I think the basics are free for free software. Can't modify the source > for your needs. You can extend the classes. I think these details were > worked out when someone proposed kde on a cd. I also recall a discussion > about a KDE Linux distrib. ;-) > > - alex > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 20:43:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03407 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:43:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03398 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:43:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA25653; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:48:38 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma025649; Sun, 30 Nov 97 22:48:09 -0600 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:48:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <19162.880950917@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan, I'm not objecting to the Qt copyright, and I'm not saying do not use Qt and do not buy Qt ... I'm of the same mind as you regarding it. ... I _am_ saying that software with such licenses should not be used in the implementation of FreeBSD itself or essential FreeBSD utilities, such as sysinstall. Why carry such luggage? Jacques Vidrine On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Only KDE depends upon Qt, which doesn't have an appropriate software > > license. > > Oh, I dunno about this. I think that people should be willing to be > just a bit more flexible where these sorts of "use it for something > free, get it free - use it for something commercial, pay some money" > licenses are concerned since it takes a high degree of flexibility for > any company to even *think* about doing something like this. It's > also fairly clear that getting other companies to adopt similarly > free-software friendly licenses like this, giving access to their full > source code on the net (!) as TrollTech does, won't be made any easier > if the free software people themselves react negatively to the idea > and adopt a strict no-compromise policy. If anything is going to > result in any real changes in this industry, it's going to be a > willingness to compromise on *both* sides of the licensing issue so > that neither "side" feels that the other is trying to force their > ideologies on it at gunpoint. > > I like the Qt copyright and wish Trolltech every degree of success > with it. I'd like to see a lot more of that kind of thing in the > industry, frankly. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:13:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05193 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:13:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05183 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:13:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19481; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:13:04 -0800 (PST) To: Jacques Vidrine cc: Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:48:09 CST." Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:13:04 -0800 Message-ID: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ... I _am_ saying that software with such licenses should not be used in > the implementation of FreeBSD itself or essential FreeBSD utilities, such > as sysinstall. Why carry such luggage? What? Eh? I wasn't talking about doing anything of the sort in FreeBSD. Sysinstall in Qt certainly isn't on *my* todo list and I doubt that it ever would be unless somebody suddenly decided that they wanted to pay me $100,000 to do it or something :-). I was simply reacting to your implication (cited below) that KDE shouldn't use it. Jordan > > Jacques Vidrine > > > > Only KDE depends upon Qt, which doesn't have an appropriate software > > > license. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:23:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05787 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:23:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05771 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:23:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24058; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd024044; Sun Nov 30 21:19:56 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: John-Mark Gurney cc: "John S. Dyson" , j_mini@efn.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dirty bit in page allocations. In-Reply-To: <19971130125201.44588@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm pretty willing to bet that the frame-buffer, while linear, will probably be broken on page boundaries, in which case the page handling VM code can do it for you. that's what mmap() on device drivers was invented for.. no? On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > John S. Dyson scribbled this message on Nov 30: > > Jonathan Mini said: > > > I need to read and set the dirty bit on pages of allocated kernel memory. I > > > allocate the memory via malloc, and then export it to the userland via mmap. > > > What I need to do is clear and test the dirty bit on those pages. This way, I > > > can dump only those pages which have been modified instead of the entire set > > > of pages. > > > What are the functions/macros/etc which will allow me to do this? > > > > > What, exactly, are you trying to do? (I am not trying to be snotty or anything, > > but there are easy ways to do certain things, and more difficult ways :-)). I > > might be able to help you put something together that is easy. > > well... since Mini is still a sleep... basicly he is writing code that > will use the VBE spec to interface with the video card and display > graphics... as the spec doesn't force the card to have a linear frame > buffer he is writing code that will "simulate" a linear frame buffer > for the application.. > > he then needs to find out what pages in the simulated linear frame > buffer has been modified and only write those pages out to the video > card... > > -- > John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 > Cu Networking > > Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:23:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05797 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:23:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05782 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.99]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id VAA22170; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id QAA01063; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:16:17 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19971201161616.03539@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:16:16 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Julian Elischer Cc: Andrew Kenneth Milton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Drive Mirroring References: <19971129174129.61865@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 10:46:36AM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 10:46:36AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > booting off mirrored disks isn't too hard. > booting off striped disks is a real problem Right. The same applies to RAID, of course. I've got some ideas about how to handle it, but I want to get the basic functions sorted out first. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:24:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06003 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:24:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05984 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA23995; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd023993; Sun Nov 30 21:16:35 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:14:18 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Terry Lambert cc: dk+@ua.net, proff@iq.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? In-Reply-To: <199712010404.VAA03532@usr09.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > You can do the same thing by doing a stat of /dev and looking > > > for an st_ino of 2. > > > > actually no, as the root ino in devfs is not 2, and the ino for .. > > IS 2 regardless of what FS it is.. > > The ino for the root directory (.) in any FS should be 2. This is > part and parcel of making the backup/restore utilities work. 4034972160 dr-xr-xr-x 4 root wheel 3283 Nov 30 20:52 /dev/. 2 drwxr-xr-x 19 root wheel 1024 Nov 27 00:07 /dev/.. now, for 16 points (and the car), can you tell me why I'd want to run dump/restore on a devfs? > > > > > The devices themselves, especially in the new SLICE stuff that > > > he's done, should be self-referrential. I'm still trying to > > > talk him into putting them in a hierarchy (with little success... > > > you SVR4 device name traditionalists can rest easy: you still get > > > you have your long cryptic device names for now...). > > > > A hierarchy is good but has the following problems > > > > 1/ violates "Principle of least surprise" (POLS) > > I disagree (big surprise ;-)). I think /dev/sd1c1d2t0 violates the > principle... At least with a hierarchy, you get a hierarchy in /dev > that matches the hierarchy on disk. Better to have a valid map with > a "you are here.." than an invalid map, IMO... I think people expect to find their disk listed as: /dev/foobar3 not as /dev/disk/scsi3/unit3/lun2/partion4 > > > 2/ if you have /dev/disk/sd0/slice1/partA, then how do you access > > /dev/disk/sd0? because htat is a directory. > > You make a distinction between VOP_READWRITE nad VOP_READDIR. This is > a pretty trival distinction to make, since you don't allow directories, > per se, in devfs, without them being parent devices. > > That naming is pretty bad, BTW. ;-). > > > > you need to either: > > (A) make devfs allow devices to respond to directory operations.. > > and therefore confuse everybody.. > > Not really... it's pretty obvious that subdirectories = subdevices. Both > have "sub" in them... > > > "hey if /dev/disk/sd0 is a device, how can /dev/disk/sd0/slice1 exist?" > > The better question is "how can '/dev/disk/sd0' exist". The answer is > that each parent is also a device. The devfs is *not* a normal FS; we > already knew this, > > > /dev/disk/sd0/slice1 > > /dev/disk/sd0/slice1/all <--device > > I dislike this distinction. Any time you make aliases, you damage the > model (the same reason I'm against links in devfs). > > > If objection 1 violates POLS, then solution (A) REALLY violates it, > > though if we were designing a new OS that's what I would do. > > (it's easy to do) > > I don't think your "if" is true, so your "then" isn't true, either. heh! I'll show it to you tomorrow.. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:29:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06361 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:29:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06352 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:29:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14844; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA27498; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:30:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:30:44 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca To: Charles Mott cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sa_len field of struct sockaddr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Charles Mott wrote: > I am currently puzzling over how to use autoconf. If anyone has an GNU > configure method or something else for dealing with this, I would be > curious to see it. http://home.pages.de/~simons/autoconf-archive/ Was just announced on gnu.misc.discuss. Disclaimer: "I have not added all the things submitted, yet, so it will be growing over the next few days". Probably even more as people who missed his original announce notice his 2nd one and decide to submit something. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:31:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06500 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:31:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06494 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24116; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:22:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd024114; Sun Nov 30 21:22:36 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:20:18 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Chuck Robey cc: Francisco Reyes , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk rather than use CVS, set up thewebserver and use a browser and the cvsweb tool to browse the sources.. On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > I was wondering how is the selection made of what goes into the > > CDrom? > > Is the CVS repository used by most users or just a few? > > > > Personally I find that it would have been more useful to have the > > sources for all the programs somewhere (ie a second live file system > > CD) in an untar format. Alternatively a list of where the sources are > > in the first CD and a small script to get a program out would be just > > as good. For example recently I wanted to look at the source code for > > "renice". Getting the entire usr.bin took too much space. > > > > You know that the source for renice (and all the other parts of FreeBSD) > are inside that CVS archive? cvs is really complicated to learn, but > pretty well worth it. > > > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD > (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:32:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06718 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@haiti-94.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06712 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:32:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA06434; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:33:15 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:33:14 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jacques Vidrine , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > ... I _am_ saying that software with such licenses should not be used in > > the implementation of FreeBSD itself or essential FreeBSD utilities, such > > as sysinstall. Why carry such luggage? > > What? Eh? I wasn't talking about doing anything of the sort in > FreeBSD. Sysinstall in Qt certainly isn't on *my* todo list and I > doubt that it ever would be unless somebody suddenly decided that they > wanted to pay me $100,000 to do it or something :-). That was me who suggested _that_. I still think that a graphical counterpart of sorts to sysinstall or its successor, (which you are writing right? ;-) ) is something, that would certianly add a little bit of polish to FBSD, and perhaps increase its userbase. While I'm kinda looking into something like that (whether it's Qt/KDE based or not), I'm not a very adept programmer, hence I'm not volunteering to write it (yet). > I was simply reacting to your implication (cited below) that KDE > shouldn't use it. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:33:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06816 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:33:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06797 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id XAA25746; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:38:41 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma025741; Sun, 30 Nov 97 23:38:26 -0600 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:38:26 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net Reply-To: Jacques Vidrine To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk heh heh ... This thread came out of someone Alex making a comment that KDE would be great for a graphical sysinstall: On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Alex wrote: > > Speaking of an out of box experience, KDE works quite nicely. It's kinda > a CDE/Motif meets Win95 type thing, with a bunch of little applets for > stuff from user managment to basic text editing to games. I think this > would make a nice "X" enviroment for a graphical sysinstall. All of which > might make using FreeBSD a less daunting desktop (or even server) OS. > So I wasn't actually saying KDE shouldn't use Qt, but that FreeBSD installation utilities should not be based on any software with licensing more restrictive than the Berkeley license. Jacques Vidrine On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > What? Eh? I wasn't talking about doing anything of the sort in > FreeBSD. Sysinstall in Qt certainly isn't on *my* todo list and I > doubt that it ever would be unless somebody suddenly decided that they > wanted to pay me $100,000 to do it or something :-). > > I was simply reacting to your implication (cited below) that KDE > shouldn't use it. > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 21:52:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA08324 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:52:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08317 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:52:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19741; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:52:24 -0800 (PST) To: Alex cc: Jacques Vidrine , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:33:14 PST." Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:52:24 -0800 Message-ID: <19737.880955544@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > That was me who suggested _that_. I still think that a graphical > counterpart of sorts to sysinstall or its successor, (which you are > writing right? ;-) ) is something, that would certianly add a little bit > of polish to FBSD, and perhaps increase its userbase. While I'm kinda Sure would, but the bootstrapping issues are hard. To use an X based anything, be it Qt or (to be more politically correct) Tk based, requires that you get the user fully into a running X environment first and that's often very hard, especially if the user in question happens to be missing a couple of blades on his propeller, if you get my drift. I've got a machine here which can't even run the VGA16 server on its funky graphics card, and I've heard others say the same of various laptops and other funky gfx card infested systems. Considering that a goodly number of those might not even want to *run* X, it hardly makes sense to tell them that they still need it just to install the system. An alternative, of course, is to provide an installer which does one or the other based on some initial user dialog, but writing such a dual-headed installer is also *hard* if you only want to have to keep one central source code base updated every time you add something to a menu or change the ordering of the install (and that *is* the way you would want to do it, the option of maintaining two installers in parallel being a very painful one over the long term). That requires a fairly abstract UI subsystem which is able to use arbitrary interface objects in dialoging with the user and can use any given set on the fly. I haven't seen this holy grail of interface technology available for free yet, so don't hold your breath on that ever happening unless you become a really good C programmer sooner than expected. :-) I suspect that what will happen instead, given the time pressures currently on the "new installer" project (and its stunning lack of substantial progress so far), is that a reasonably decent CUI library like TurboVision will simply get used in place of the egregious libdialog, the X-heads continuing to run it inside an xterm and just coping with that fact. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 22:26:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA10403 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:26:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10397 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:26:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA23034; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:26:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:26:28 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Paul Traina cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? In-Reply-To: <199712010338.TAA21671@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been pretty happy with the overall quality of the isc dhcpd kit. The one we have in ports is the conservative -stable cut of their code, and I don't know if it comes with a client for us. I've been running the development snapshot version for our 2K+ host network and it works pretty well on the server side. But you asked about the client; FreeBSD is supported in the development version as a client - I haven't got around to trying it yet but it is worth a look. I believe just in the last few days a new kit has been released with updated scripts. -Chris On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Paul Traina wrote: > Oh, cool, I didn't see the netbsd one. The WIDE isn't....so good. > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? > > Has anyone done or started work on a DHCP client for FreeBSD? I noticed th > >>at > > there's one for Linux now (dhcpdc-0.70)...? > > There are numerous ones for FreeBSD, not least of which being the one > from the WIDE project which has been around for ages, but I also > noticed that a client is in the NetBSD sources and would probably > be easy to bring across on account of the fact that it's already > conveniently bmake'd and all. :-) > > Jordan > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 22:30:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA10764 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:30:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10753 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:30:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA23093; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:30:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:30:33 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Surely you mean MOP as in something useful, not say for example DEC's Maintenance Operation Protocol used to bootstrap DECservers and the like. DECnet, LAST, LAT, MOP .... unsupported at any speed! -Chris On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > There are numerous ones for FreeBSD, not least of which being the one > > from the WIDE project which has been around for ages, but I also > > noticed that a client is in the NetBSD sources and would probably > > be easy to bring across on account of the fact that it's already > > conveniently bmake'd and all. :-) > > How about the MOP utilities that NetBSD has? Those would be useful as > well. > > /* > Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life > winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to > http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 > */ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 22:34:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA11002 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:34:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10996 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA20989; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:33:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020985; Sun Nov 30 22:33:22 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15641; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712010633.WAA15641@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? In-Reply-To: from Julian Elischer at "Nov 30, 97 09:14:18 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:33:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dk+@ua.net, proff@iq.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > The devices themselves, especially in the new SLICE stuff that > > > > he's done, should be self-referrential. I'm still trying to > > > > talk him into putting them in a hierarchy (with little success... > > > > you SVR4 device name traditionalists can rest easy: you still get > > > > you have your long cryptic device names for now...). > > > > > > A hierarchy is good but has the following problems > > > > > > 1/ violates "Principle of least surprise" (POLS) > > > > I disagree (big surprise ;-)). I think /dev/sd1c1d2t0 violates the > > principle... At least with a hierarchy, you get a hierarchy in /dev > > that matches the hierarchy on disk. Better to have a valid map with > > a "you are here.." than an invalid map, IMO... > > I think people expect to find their disk listed as: /dev/foobar3 > not as /dev/disk/scsi3/unit3/lun2/partion4 What's wrong with having both? That is, let /dev/sd0s1 be a symlink to /dev/sd0/slice1. Symlinks could also help the sd0a -> sd0s1a problem. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 22:42:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA11561 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@seoul-207.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA11556 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:42:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25577; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:43:09 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:43:09 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <19737.880955544@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: [snip of reasons why X only systems would be as impossible as Win95] Sadly, I would have loved to run X on my laptop, but it seems IBM hadn't gotten the hang of making conformists out of its ThinkPads when it was made. However, I wasn't thinking ditch the cli, I was thinking in addition to, as I (and I'm sure many other people) are still wrestling to get X working consistantly. > An alternative, of course, is to provide an installer which does one > or the other based on some initial user dialog, but writing such a > dual-headed installer is also *hard* if you only want to have to keep > one central source code base updated every time you add something to a > menu or change the ordering of the install (and that *is* the way you > would want to do it, the option of maintaining two installers in > parallel being a very painful one over the long term). That requires > a fairly abstract UI subsystem which is able to use arbitrary > interface objects in dialoging with the user and can use any given set > on the fly. I haven't seen this holy grail of interface technology > available for free yet, so don't hold your breath on that ever > happening unless you become a really good C programmer sooner than > expected. :-) What about making some of the basic sysinstall (or whatver) functions into a shared library, rpm and librpm come to mind. That way a command line based installer could add its own menu on top of that, and a GUI one could add it's own thing on top of that. Plus, it would have an advantage of seperating the UI and "low-level" stuff somewhat, so that bugs in one, wouldn't necesarily force a re-compilation of the other. > I suspect that what will happen instead, given the time pressures > currently on the "new installer" project (and its stunning lack of > substantial progress so far), is that a reasonably decent CUI library > like TurboVision will simply get used in place of the egregious > libdialog, the X-heads continuing to run it inside an xterm and just > coping with that fact. :-) I never did much like TurboVision, although I still hope the nameless "new installer" makes it into 3.0-release ;-) - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 22:47:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA11906 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:47:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA11897 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:47:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA20038; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:47:06 -0800 (PST) To: Alex cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:43:09 PST." Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:47:06 -0800 Message-ID: <20034.880958826@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What about making some of the basic sysinstall (or whatver) functions into > a shared library, rpm and librpm come to mind. That way a command line > based installer could add its own menu on top of that, and a GUI one could > add it's own thing on top of that. Plus, it would have an advantage of > seperating the UI and "low-level" stuff somewhat, so that bugs in one, > wouldn't necesarily force a re-compilation of the other. You can break this problem at any number of points, be it front-end/back-end, producer/consumer or message based with the UI running as a separate process. :-) However you choose to handle the complexity of multi-UI installer, it's not something you can just bang together in a weekend and that's the real problem. Conceptual models we have *plenty* of. The time to execute them, almost *none* of. :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 22:52:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA12198 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:52:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12186 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:52:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id HAA29820 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:52:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA09866; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:50:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971201075005.16797@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:50:05 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199712010407.UAA11973@super.zippo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712010407.UAA11973@super.zippo.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 11:07:23PM -0400 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Francisco Reyes wrote: > >(*) Don't rely on this version, and better write your scripts so they > >can work under both, Perl 4 and 5. > > What do you mean by not relying on that version? That the base system's Perl will be upgraded to Perl 5 some day. So don't write scripts with unescaped @'s in strings, etc. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 22:53:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA12294 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:53:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mother.sneaker.net.au (akm@mother.sneaker.net.au [203.30.3.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12282 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:53:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@mother.sneaker.net.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mother.sneaker.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22510; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:00:19 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199712010700.SAA22510@mother.sneaker.net.au> Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:00:19 +1100 (EST) Cc: garbanzo@hooked.net, nectar@NECTAR.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19737.880955544@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 30, 97 09:52:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk +-----[ Jordan K. Hubbard ]------------------------------ | | > That was me who suggested _that_. I still think that a graphical | > counterpart of sorts to sysinstall or its successor, (which you are | > writing right? ;-) ) is something, that would certianly add a little bit | > of polish to FBSD, and perhaps increase its userbase. While I'm kinda | | Sure would, but the bootstrapping issues are hard. To use an X based | anything, be it Qt or (to be more politically correct) Tk based, | requires that you get the user fully into a running X environment | first and that's often very hard, especially if the user in question | happens to be missing a couple of blades on his propeller, if you get | my drift. Geez it took me a long time to find a '.' to break d8) Does graphical necessarily have to be X ? I know that a console gui based one means it probably can't run under X easily (or can you?). That'll make remote sysinstalls a pain if you can't. Don't forget there's also a curses version of Tk which does a fair job. The SCO (boo hiss) system tool works this way, if you run it from a console it uses the curses version, otherwise you get the pretty X one. So your development of a dual-mode sysinstall using Tk would (almost) fall out for free. -- ,-_|\ SneakerNet | Andrew Milton | GSM: +61(41)6 022 411 / \ P.O. Box 154 | akm@sneaker.net.au | Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233 v NSW 2137 | Low cost Internet Solutions | From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 23:01:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA12763 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:01:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA12755 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id CAA04507; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:02:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:02:26 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Jacques Vidrine , Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) References: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 09:13:04PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 09:13:04PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > ... I _am_ saying that software with such licenses should not be used in > > the implementation of FreeBSD itself or essential FreeBSD utilities, such > > as sysinstall. Why carry such luggage? > > What? Eh? I wasn't talking about doing anything of the sort in > FreeBSD. Sysinstall in Qt certainly isn't on *my* todo list and I > doubt that it ever would be unless somebody suddenly decided that they > wanted to pay me $100,000 to do it or something :-). Has anyone ever looked into the QNX micro-gui (or whatever they call it these days) stuff?? You can download a floppy from their site that will boot a full "X-like" GUI, run a web server, make a PPP connection, and give you a web browser. It's nothing short of astonishing. Their technique appears to be very similar to FreeBSD's, essentially uncompressing a kernel and firing up a MFS to hold everything. Very Unix like, although it would appear QNX is trying to disassociate themselves from anything UNIX'y lately... The second I started the thing up, visions of the slickest OS install in the world were flashing through my head... The FreeBSD Photon-GUI installer. Now that would grab attention. I wonder if QNX would *ever* consider donating the tools to FreeBSD in return for a "QNX ad" at the start up of the install? I doubt it, but they are less and less "competition" all the time. I know someone who works there, I'll give him a call and run the idea by him. At the very least, I'm going to see how much they charge, and if they have a royalty free license, which I'm sure they do. Man it would make such a kick-ass FreeBSD installer!! :-) -Mark > > I was simply reacting to your implication (cited below) that KDE > shouldn't use it. > > Jordan > > > > > > Jacques Vidrine > > > > > > Only KDE depends upon Qt, which doesn't have an appropriate software > > > > license. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 23:03:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA12909 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:03:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (mail-gw.utimaco.co.at [195.96.28.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA12889 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA18920 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:50:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from wshpux.utimaco.co.at(10.0.0.18) by safeconcept via smap (V2.0) id xma018918; Mon, 1 Dec 97 07:50:23 +0100 Message-ID: <3482610A.63168C1C@utimaco.co.at> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 08:02:34 +0100 From: Michael Schuster Organization: Utimaco Safe Concept GmbH., Linz, Austria X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.01 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: re: installworld, no space Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I ran out of space during installworld. Is it safe to move /usr/src >to an NFS server and symlink to its new location and start up >installworld again? By "safe" I mean will it work that way? >John No problem - that's what I do all the time. Takes a bit longer, obviously (3-4 hours with /usr/obj on local machine) Michael Schuster From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 23:11:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA13646 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:11:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@seoul-207.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13631 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:11:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA02482; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:12:03 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:12:03 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org Reply-To: Alex To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <20034.880958826@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > What about making some of the basic sysinstall (or whatver) functions into > > a shared library, rpm and librpm come to mind. That way a command line > > based installer could add its own menu on top of that, and a GUI one could > > add it's own thing on top of that. Plus, it would have an advantage of > > seperating the UI and "low-level" stuff somewhat, so that bugs in one, > > wouldn't necesarily force a re-compilation of the other. > > You can break this problem at any number of points, be it > front-end/back-end, producer/consumer or message based with the UI > running as a separate process. :-) However you choose to handle the > complexity of multi-UI installer, it's not something you can just bang > together in a weekend and that's the real problem. Conceptual models > we have *plenty* of. The time to execute them, almost *none* of. :-( Yes, that's true. After poking through the sources for sysinstall, I finally realized how intertwined it is with [lib]dialog. *yikes* However, I think at least some of it could be pulled apart, perhaps it'll give me something to play around with. Anyways, if sysinstall is going to be completely rewritten, and there's been little progress (I hope you get my drift) ;-) - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 23:15:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA13939 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13933 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:14:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.1/nospam) with UUCP id IAA18823 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:14:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id IAA02692; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:13:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971201081318.21212@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:13:18 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? References: <199712010407.UAA11973@super.zippo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712010407.UAA11973@super.zippo.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 11:07:23PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3845 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Francisco Reyes: > What do you mean by not relying on that version? It may disappear anytime. Fortunately, there are not that many Perl4 thingies that makes Perl5 puke so 95% of the scripts written for Perl4 work out of the box in Perl5 (the 5% includes @ inside strings and a few things described in perltrap(1)). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #18: Tue Nov 25 22:32:12 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 23:22:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA14629 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:22:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA14620 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA22060; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:22:29 -0800 (PST) To: Alex cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:12:03 PST." Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:22:29 -0800 Message-ID: <22057.880960949@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > give me something to play around with. Anyways, if sysinstall is going to > be completely rewritten, and there's been little progress (I hope you > get my drift) ;-) Erm.. No, actually? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 23:24:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA14733 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.96.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA14728 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:23:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA20685; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:22:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:22:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Chris Timmons cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Chris Timmons wrote: > Surely you mean MOP as in something useful, not say for example DEC's > Maintenance Operation Protocol used to bootstrap DECservers and the like. > > DECnet, LAST, LAT, MOP .... unsupported at any speed! MOP is useful for booting DECstations and VAXstations. Of course I run VMS for kicks so theres no accounting for taste. /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 30 23:43:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16058 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:43:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-12.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16047 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:43:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id XAA18985; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:43:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:43:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712010743.XAA18985@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19971130230136.00664@uriah.heep.sax.de> (message from J Wunsch on Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:01:36 +0100) Subject: Re: Programming: What if anything is guaranteed to be always in FreeBSD? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * From: J Wunsch * there, tcl is there starting with FreeBSD 3.0 (which is, of course, It is not a good idea to rely on tcl being in the system (even for 3.0R, whenever that may be). Assume it is installed from the ports and you will be safe. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 00:04:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA17712 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:04:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA17697 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:04:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01430; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:28:36 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712010758.SAA01430@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Andrew Kenneth Milton cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), garbanzo@hooked.net, nectar@NECTAR.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:00:19 +1100." <199712010700.SAA22510@mother.sneaker.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:28:36 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does graphical necessarily have to be X ? I know that a console gui > based one means it probably can't run under X easily (or can you?). > That'll make remote sysinstalls a pain if you can't. For a graphical interface to be worth the effort, it has to be portable. (ie. network/interface transparent). That means either X (but that limits you to X-capable machines as clients), Tcl/Tk (but that may require some fancy setup work on the client system), or HTML (security is browsers is a critical issue). We've been down this road already. HTML will work if/when someone can get the security stuff resolved, and we suddenly discover half a dozen really great graphic artists that just happen to work well together. 8) > Don't forget there's also a curses version of Tk which does a fair > job. The SCO (boo hiss) system tool works this way, if you run it from > a console it uses the curses version, otherwise you get the pretty > X one. So your development of a dual-mode sysinstall using Tk would > (almost) fall out for free. ... only Visual Tcl (the tool you are thinking of) is proprietary and not available. I think that Karl L. and friends spent a long time on vtcl for a *very* good reason. We don't have those resources. imke From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 00:09:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA18157 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:09:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA18138 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01464; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:34:03 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712010804.SAA01464@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mark Mayo cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Jacques Vidrine , Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:02:26 CDT." <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:34:03 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone ever looked into the QNX micro-gui (or whatever they call it > these days) stuff?? Yes. I regularly give copies of the IAT to people that want a single-disk web browsing solution. It rocks. But... > I wonder if QNX would *ever* consider donating the tools to FreeBSD > in return for a "QNX ad" at the start up of the install? I doubt > it, but they are less and less "competition" all the time. Sure. But someone in the company is going to say "We spent a lot of money developing this. Why should we give it away?" > I know > someone who works there, I'll give him a call and run the idea by him. > At the very least, I'm going to see how much they charge, and if > they have a royalty free license, which I'm sure they do. Man it would > make such a kick-ass FreeBSD installer!! :-) I don't believe that the source for Photon is available. And it doesn't run on TVI925's. 8) mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 00:27:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA19450 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:27:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA19439 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:26:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09743; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:32:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd009734; Mon Dec 1 01:32:17 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA04800; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:26:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712010826.BAA04800@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:26:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dk+@ua.net, proff@iq.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 30, 97 09:14:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The ino for the root directory (.) in any FS should be 2. This is > > part and parcel of making the backup/restore utilities work. > > 4034972160 dr-xr-xr-x 4 root wheel 3283 Nov 30 20:52 /dev/. > 2 drwxr-xr-x 19 root wheel 1024 Nov 27 00:07 /dev/.. > > now, for 16 points (and the car), can you tell me why I'd want to run > dump/restore on a devfs? There's no good reason. But there's also no good reason for not making "." be 2, and not having a 1, just in case someone tries it... > > I disagree (big surprise ;-)). I think /dev/sd1c1d2t0 violates the > > principle... At least with a hierarchy, you get a hierarchy in /dev > > that matches the hierarchy on disk. Better to have a valid map with > > a "you are here.." than an invalid map, IMO... > > I think people expect to find their disk listed as: /dev/foobar3 > not as /dev/disk/scsi3/unit3/lun2/partion4 Don't you mean /dec/foobar3a? I think it's just as cryptic... you're just biased by what you are used to seeing... take your average user (which means your average Windows user) and it's just as cryptic either way. > > > If objection 1 violates POLS, then solution (A) REALLY violates it, > > > though if we were designing a new OS that's what I would do. > > > (it's easy to do) > > > > I don't think your "if" is true, so your "then" isn't true, either. > > heh! > I'll show it to you tomorrow.. OK... 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 00:38:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20259 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:38:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20252 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:38:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01580; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:02:25 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712010832.TAA01580@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Andrew Kenneth Milton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:40:13 +1100." <199712010840.TAA23965@mother.sneaker.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:02:24 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > +-----[ Mike Smith ]------------------------------ > | > | > Don't forget there's also a curses version of Tk which does a fair > | > job. The SCO (boo hiss) system tool works this way, if you run it from > | > a console it uses the curses version, otherwise you get the pretty > | > X one. So your development of a dual-mode sysinstall using Tk would > | > (almost) fall out for free. > | > | ... only Visual Tcl (the tool you are thinking of) is proprietary and > | not available. I think that Karl L. and friends spent a long time on > | vtcl for a *very* good reason. We don't have those resources. > > Errr no. There is a pd/freeware curses tk implementation out there > that isn't vtcl. ctk.. it's in the ports. I know about Visual Tcl, > I meant to use SCO as an example of something that has dual modes. > > I have actually used it on a Tk thing I wrote, to see what it looked > like on a console. It doesn't do too bad a job. There are obviously > somethings that aren't going to work like pretty logos and iconic > displays (which are overrated anyway IMHO). "It" as in vtcl, or ctk? I think your standards are just a little low if you think ctk "doesn't do too bad a job". It's certainly not possible to write a single interface that works with both ctk and "real" Tk, unlike with vtcl. Been there, tried to do that. 8) > I've seen an (S)VGA graphics library that converts stuff to ANSI on the > fly (not too badly either) so there are all sorts of weird packages out > there. (*shudder* ANSI doom). You're thinking of the aablib 'svgalib emulator'. It's Quake that it was written for (although it probably supports Doom as well). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This package contains CTk, a curses port of John Ousterhout's Tk > toolkit for X11. > > Using CTk, applications with a modern GUI-ish interface can be > created for character terminals. These same applications, without > modification, can provide a real GUI interface by using Tk. Thus, > sites with an embedded base of character terminals (and a small > capital budget) can smoothly migrate to GUI applications. > > -- > ,-_|\ SneakerNet | Andrew Milton | GSM: +61(41)6 022 411 > / \ P.O. Box 154 | akm@sneaker.net.au | Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233 > \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233 > v NSW 2137 | Low cost Internet Solutions | > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 00:39:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20418 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:39:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20411 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:39:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA27373; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd027367; Mon Dec 1 00:36:27 1997 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:34:09 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Archie Cobbs cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dk+@ua.net, proff@iq.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? In-Reply-To: <199712010633.WAA15641@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Archie Cobbs wrote: > > > > > I think people expect to find their disk listed as: /dev/foobar3 > > not as /dev/disk/scsi3/unit3/lun2/partion4 > > What's wrong with having both? That is, let /dev/sd0s1 be a symlink > to /dev/sd0/slice1. Symlinks could also help the sd0a -> sd0s1a problem. but sd0a is a different thing to sd0s1a.. sd0a has a specific meaning.. it's shorthand for: sd0/partitonA where sd0s1a is shorthand for; sd0/slice1/partitionA they imply something. it's not that it is impossible, but that it breaks all the layering. you need to reach out of your layer to decide if you need to make the symlink. and you need to know things that your layer doesn't otherwise need to know about the insides of another layer. > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 00:40:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20545 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:40:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-43.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20540 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA28920; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:41:22 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:41:22 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <22057.880960949@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > give me something to play around with. Anyways, if sysinstall is going to > > be completely rewritten, and there's been little progress (I hope you > > get my drift) ;-) > > Erm.. No, actually? I was thinking if you're going to design it from scratch, why not detach the UI from the rest of it from the beginning, making it easier for some X die-hard (read: me, or someone else with too much free time) to make an X-ish (or even {Web|interface-of-the-month-ish) interface for it. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 00:47:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21067 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:47:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mother.sneaker.net.au (root@mother.sneaker.net.au [203.30.3.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21056 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:47:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@mother.sneaker.net.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mother.sneaker.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23965; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:40:13 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199712010840.TAA23965@mother.sneaker.net.au> Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:40:13 +1100 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, garbanzo@hooked.net, nectar@NECTAR.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712010758.SAA01430@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Dec 1, 97 06:28:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk +-----[ Mike Smith ]------------------------------ | | > Don't forget there's also a curses version of Tk which does a fair | > job. The SCO (boo hiss) system tool works this way, if you run it from | > a console it uses the curses version, otherwise you get the pretty | > X one. So your development of a dual-mode sysinstall using Tk would | > (almost) fall out for free. | | ... only Visual Tcl (the tool you are thinking of) is proprietary and | not available. I think that Karl L. and friends spent a long time on | vtcl for a *very* good reason. We don't have those resources. Errr no. There is a pd/freeware curses tk implementation out there that isn't vtcl. ctk.. it's in the ports. I know about Visual Tcl, I meant to use SCO as an example of something that has dual modes. I have actually used it on a Tk thing I wrote, to see what it looked like on a console. It doesn't do too bad a job. There are obviously somethings that aren't going to work like pretty logos and iconic displays (which are overrated anyway IMHO). I'm not saying it's *the* solution, I'm just saying there's stuff out there that could possibly make life easier. I've seen an (S)VGA graphics library that converts stuff to ANSI on the fly (not too badly either) so there are all sorts of weird packages out there. (*shudder* ANSI doom). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This package contains CTk, a curses port of John Ousterhout's Tk toolkit for X11. Using CTk, applications with a modern GUI-ish interface can be created for character terminals. These same applications, without modification, can provide a real GUI interface by using Tk. Thus, sites with an embedded base of character terminals (and a small capital budget) can smoothly migrate to GUI applications. -- ,-_|\ SneakerNet | Andrew Milton | GSM: +61(41)6 022 411 / \ P.O. Box 154 | akm@sneaker.net.au | Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233 v NSW 2137 | Low cost Internet Solutions | From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 01:02:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22039 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:02:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mother.sneaker.net.au (akm@mother.sneaker.net.au [203.30.3.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA22034 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:02:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@mother.sneaker.net.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mother.sneaker.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA24304; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:11:50 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199712010911.UAA24304@mother.sneaker.net.au> Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:11:50 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712010832.TAA01580@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Dec 1, 97 07:02:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk +-----[ Mike Smith ]------------------------------ | | > I have actually used it on a Tk thing I wrote, to see what it looked | > like on a console. It doesn't do too bad a job. There are obviously | > somethings that aren't going to work like pretty logos and iconic | > displays (which are overrated anyway IMHO). | | "It" as in vtcl, or ctk? Ctk. I must be having a bad grammar day. | I think your standards are just a little low | if you think ctk "doesn't do too bad a job". I'm just a simple man, I admire simple things d8) | It's certainly not | possible to write a single interface that works with both ctk and | "real" Tk, unlike with vtcl. | | Been there, tried to do that. 8) Depends on what kind of interface you want. Sysinstall currently shows menus and pops dialog boxes, and that's about the extent of the UI. I'm sure you could do a great job of that using CTK, and it'd look pretty enough under X. At the very least the UI would be consistent. How much do you want it to do? How much should it do? Heh if you wanted to be cute you could 'publish' a sysinstall API and people could make their own shared libraries to give them the GUI of their choice. I'm sure Jordan doesn't need me adding to his workload though d8) -- ,-_|\ SneakerNet | Andrew Milton | GSM: +61(41)6 022 411 / \ P.O. Box 154 | akm@sneaker.net.au | Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233 v NSW 2137 | Low cost Internet Solutions | From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 01:27:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23526 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-16.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23520 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA00455 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:28:40 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:28:40 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? In-Reply-To: <199712010826.BAA04800@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I think people expect to find their disk listed as: /dev/foobar3 > > not as /dev/disk/scsi3/unit3/lun2/partion4 > > Don't you mean /dec/foobar3a? > > I think it's just as cryptic... you're just biased by what you are used to > seeing... take your average user (which means your average Windows user) > and it's just as cryptic either way. Yet all together not nearly as cryptic as Solaris/Sun's device scheme, and disk slice scheme. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 01:47:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24812 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:47:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA24803; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (tc-if2-35.ida.net [208.141.171.92]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id CAA14350; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:46:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:46:22 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199712010456.UAA00927@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I implemented the limit using (believe it or not) system V shared memory. > The login class idea from wu-ftpd is escentially the same, but the > implementation in wu-ftpd doesn't scale and is very slow. Why is it slow? > Wu-ftpd maintains a file of all of the process IDs for a given class and > since this might become stale if an ftpd process should terminate unusually > or if the system crashes, it verifies each of the entries by doing a > kill(pid, 0) on them. On a machine like wcarchive, this means thousands of > kill()'s every time the limit for a class needs to be checked, which is at > least once for the login, and perhaps again if the current number is output > in the welcome message. Looking for a better way, I noticed one day that > system V shared memory keeps a count on the number of processes that have a > segment mapped, and further, the attach count is available via shmctl(). Aha. > So, I map ("attach") the appropriate shared memory segment into the process > (there is one per ftp login class). If the process exits for any reason, > normal or abnormal, the system unmaps the shared memory segment and thus > always keeps the attach count accurate. This provides a very low overhead > way of tracking the current number of users in each class without the need > of all of the PID files and verification. This is a really interesting way to do things. Question: is there anything unreliable about using waitpid() to see which processes have terminated? Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 01:56:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25362 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:56:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25357 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:55:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id BAA29844; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:51:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:51:48 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199712010951.BAA29844@dog.farm.org> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <18630.880944878@time.cdrom.com> you wrote: > > Has anyone done or started work on a DHCP client for FreeBSD? I noticed that > > there's one for Linux now (dhcpdc-0.70)...? > There are numerous ones for FreeBSD, not least of which being the one > from the WIDE project which has been around for ages, but I also > noticed that a client is in the NetBSD sources and would probably > be easy to bring across on account of the fact that it's already > conveniently bmake'd and all. :-) There is also a dhcp client in newest development snapshot of isc-dhcp, available at ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/dhcp/dhcp-971122.tar.gz client scripts are provided for bsdos linux nextstep freebsd netbsd solaris Note: this snapshot release can still have some bugs in server part, the previous beta (see ports/isc-dhcp/ is considered more stable.) -- "Typically, I don't use JAVA -- I think that strong typing is for weak minds (and lazy compiler/interpreter writers)." -- Terry Lambert From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 02:18:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA26824 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:18:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA26809; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:18:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03882; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:21:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712011021.CAA03882@implode.root.com> To: Charles Mott cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:46:22 MST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:21:13 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> always keeps the attach count accurate. This provides a very low overhead >> way of tracking the current number of users in each class without the need >> of all of the PID files and verification. > >This is a really interesting way to do things. Question: is there >anything unreliable about using waitpid() to see which processes have >terminated? The answer to this would become obvious the first time you needed to restart the main server process. :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 02:26:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27369 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA27351; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:25:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03063; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712011025.CAA03063@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Charles Mott cc: chat@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:46:22 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:25:51 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dumb question , Are the any plans to re-write the ftp daemon to use aio routines and use fewer processes to serve connections. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 02:30:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27786 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:30:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA27779 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:30:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA24697; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:29:49 -0800 (PST) To: Alex cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 00:41:22 PST." Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:29:49 -0800 Message-ID: <24693.880972189@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was thinking if you're going to design it from scratch, why not detach > the UI from the rest of it from the beginning, making it easier for some X > die-hard (read: me, or someone else with too much free time) to make an > X-ish (or even {Web|interface-of-the-month-ish) interface for it. Because if I try to do that, I've got to take time out to *implement* all the interface library objects on at least the ncurses end of things vs being able to simply grab TurboVision and use all of its objects right off the bat. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 02:47:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA28846 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:47:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA28835 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:47:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA24789; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:46:59 -0800 (PST) To: Andrew Kenneth Milton cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), garbanzo@hooked.net, nectar@NECTAR.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:40:13 +1100." <199712010840.TAA23965@mother.sneaker.net.au> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:46:58 -0800 Message-ID: <24785.880973218@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Errr no. There is a pd/freeware curses tk implementation out there > that isn't vtcl. ctk.. it's in the ports. I know about Visual Tcl, > I meant to use SCO as an example of something that has dual modes. I've played a bit with this, yes. It scared me. :-) I basically don't think that Tk serves as a reasonable model for CUI programming and all of the Ctk interfaces I saw really sort of left me cold. If I wanted to write UI-neutral interfaces, I'd go to a higher level forms abstraction or use a set of "generic" interface widgets which mapped, modulo some last-minute style guide compliance fiddling, to curses or Tk based objects. This is not to say that Ctk has no place at all - I've fooled around with it a little and can say that if you're careful to write very *simple* interfaces, they're not too horrible to use in "curses mode" (assuming you can deal with not being able to focus on scrollbars at all :). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 03:18:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00668 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:18:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00661; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@FreeBSD.org) From: Julian Elischer Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) id DAA25478; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:17:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:17:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712011117.DAA25478@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SLICE/DEVFS code Cc: -@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A new version is in ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/scsi/slice.tar.gz (a symlink to slice2.tar.gz) differences: a sample /etc/rc showing changes (look for 'DEVFS') a sysctl variable kern.slicexclusive that defines how secure/safe the slice code is. 0-> you can shoot yourself in the foot (e.g. overwrite the disklabel of a disk on which there are active partitions. 1-> you can only read from devices that underlie open partitions. 2-> you cannot even do that. You need it set to 0 to be able to fsck the root partiton during bootup. It should then be set to 1. (see the sample rc) Code greatly cleaned up. common routines used for many things tha were done separatly before. Several memory leaks plugged. Self-hosting here. (on SCSI) Seems reliable. I haven't lost anything after multiple reboots and compiles. Boots to multi-user mode unassisted and runs reliably. The file ide.c hasn't been tested for a while and is a copy of wd.c with all un-needed stuff stripped. The IDE version WORKS but is not as tested, and I did see some complaints from the driver I hav enot tracked down. something to do with an unknown state. once again.. you must have the full names of devices in /etc/fstab mine looks like: devfs /dev devfs rw 1 1 /dev/sd1s1a / ufs rw 1 1 /dev/sd0s2d /usr ufs rw,async,noatime 1 2 /dev/sd1s1d /tmp ufs rw,async,noatime 1 2 /dev/sd1s1e /var ufs rw 1 3 /dev/sd2s1d /usr/ports ufs rw,async,noatime 1 4 /dev/sd1s1g /usr/ports/distfiles ufs rw,async,noatime 1 4 /dev/sd2s1e /usr/src ufs rw,async,noatime 1 4 /dev/sd1s1f /usr/obj ufs rw,async,noatime 1 4 /dev/sd0s2a /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp ufs rw,async,noatime 1 1 /dev/sd0s2b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/sd1s1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/sd2s1b none swap sw 0 0 proc /proc procfs rw 0 0 /dev/cd0a /cdrom cd9660 ro,noauto 0 0 /dev/sd0s1 /c msdos rw,noauto 0 0 To be able to boot back and forth, you need ds0s1a to be a link to sd0a (for example) otherwise the old kernel will reject the root entry in the fstab above, as it requires the sd0a minor numbers. the new code however requires the full NAME (sd0s1a) (it does things by name rather than by number) comments solicited. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 05:06:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA06280 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 05:06:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA06274 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 05:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thomas@ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA18274; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:05:16 +0100 (CET) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA18482; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:05:15 +0100 (CET) To: Jacques Vidrine Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthreads References: From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 01 Dec 1997 14:05:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jacques Vidrine's message of Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:08:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <873ekdciyg.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacques Vidrine writes: > Hi, > > Where can I find a status of pthread support for FreeBSD-current? I've > not had experience with them before, but I have attempted to compile > Python 1.5b1 with thread support, and the resulting application is not > stable (in particular I've had problems with signals and the thread APIs > themselves). Python-1.4 seems to work with threads, except for the signals. All the demos ran fine when I tested it. 1.5b1 is a different matter. There are some modules that break when you compile with thread support, like signal and fpectl. That's all I can say for now, I wanted to do some more tests in the next few days. tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 06:54:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12526 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:54:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12519 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:54:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA21042; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:52:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga13-16.ix.netcom.com(204.32.174.48) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020999; Mon Dec 1 08:52:15 1997 Message-ID: <3482CF33.EDC09FC@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:52:35 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Mayo CC: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) References: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com> <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Mayo wrote: [snip] > Has anyone ever looked into the QNX micro-gui (or whatever they call it > these days) stuff?? You can download a floppy from their site that > will boot a full "X-like" GUI, run a web server, make a PPP connection, > and give you a web browser. It's nothing short of astonishing. Their > technique appears to be very similar to FreeBSD's, essentially > uncompressing a kernel and firing up a MFS to hold everything. Very > Unix like, although it would appear QNX is trying to disassociate > themselves from anything UNIX'y lately... We're QNX developers over here too. QNX is a neat operating system, providing many of the advantages of a POSIX compliance in an embeddable microkernel system. As you mentioned, Photon (the GUI), is pretty fantastic, but other than a similar appearance, has very little in common with X. The design goals are very different, intended to be embedded into the smallest of systems. Although the POSIX compatibility features of the system do give a Unix'y feeling, the runtime structure of the system is very different from most Unix based systems as well. And once again, it is intended for different applications that typical Unix systems. Interestingly, at their conference in Toronto last October, Gordon Bell of QNX emphasized the importance of the freeware phenomenon and promised their best efforts to contribute to and gain the benefits of cooperating this channel. I would say they are intentionally pursing niche markets very different from Unix, while working to maintain an acceptable level of source code compatibility with Unix. Development for the Photon GUI, however, is not source code compatible with anything else, being a QNX innovation. > > The second I started the thing up, visions of the slickest OS install > in the world were flashing through my head... The FreeBSD Photon-GUI > installer. Now that would grab attention. It *is* very pretty. > > I wonder if QNX would *ever* consider donating the tools to FreeBSD > in return for a "QNX ad" at the start up of the install? I doubt > it, but they are less and less "competition" all the time. I know > someone who works there, I'll give him a call and run the idea by him. > At the very least, I'm going to see how much they charge, and if > they have a royalty free license, which I'm sure they do. Man it would > make such a kick-ass FreeBSD installer!! :-) > They've got a free educational program, but are necessarily very commercially oriented. Somehow, I don't believe this would happen :( They are very much aware of FreeBSD and *BSD Unix in general. Their TCP stack was initially ported from 4.3BSD. They have always been an excellent vendor for us. Cheers, Jerry Hicks, jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com > RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark > > finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to > an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, > written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 07:13:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA13483 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:13:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA13472 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:13:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14715; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:12:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:12:58 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Alex cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Alex wrote: > > Speaking of an out of box experience, KDE works quite nicely. It's kinda > a CDE/Motif meets Win95 type thing, with a bunch of little applets for I'm not too enthusiastic about the implementation, at this stage at least. The basic required processes suck up unreasonable amounts of RAM and my X server bloats to almost twice the size I usually see it at. In the end, my 64MB machine feels like it has about 32MB. I think it would be nearly intolerable on a 32MB or less machine. Not so good for the out-of-box-experience. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 09:17:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22255 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22239 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA24122; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024120; Mon Dec 1 09:16:20 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA17003; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:16:20 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712011716.JAA17003@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? In-Reply-To: from Julian Elischer at "Dec 1, 97 00:34:09 am" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:16:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Archie Cobbs wrote: > > > I think people expect to find their disk listed as: /dev/foobar3 > > > not as /dev/disk/scsi3/unit3/lun2/partion4 > > > > What's wrong with having both? That is, let /dev/sd0s1 be a symlink > > to /dev/sd0/slice1. Symlinks could also help the sd0a -> sd0s1a problem. > > but sd0a is a different thing to sd0s1a.. > sd0a has a specific meaning.. > it's shorthand for: > sd0/partitonA > where sd0s1a is shorthand for; > sd0/slice1/partitionA > they imply something. I'm talking about the "compatibility slice" or whatever. E.g., on my machine: /dev/sd0s2b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/sd0a / ufs rw 1 1 /dev/sd0s2e /usr ufs rw 1 2 /dev/sd0s2f /var ufs rw 1 2 proc /proc procfs rw 0 0 Isn't /dev/sd0a really /dev/sd0s1a here? That is, sd0 has a normal partition table. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 09:24:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23069 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23055 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA20957; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:23:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA11548; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:23:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:23:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199712011723.KAA11548@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Chris Timmons Cc: Paul Traina , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dhcp client for freebsd? In-Reply-To: References: <199712010338.TAA21671@precipice.shockwave.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been pretty happy with the overall quality of the isc dhcpd kit. The > one we have in ports is the conservative -stable cut of their code, and I > don't know if it comes with a client for us. I've been running the > development snapshot version for our 2K+ host network and it works pretty > well on the server side. FWIW, this is the same (or based on the same) sources as the NetBSD one, or at least it was. Back when I watched the NetBSD commits, Ted Lemon integrated this into NetBSD, so I assume it's still of the same vintage. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 09:29:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23716 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:29:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23709 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:29:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA20997; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:28:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA11567; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:28:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:28:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199712011728.KAA11567@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mark Mayo Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Jacques Vidrine , Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> References: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com> <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone ever looked into the QNX micro-gui (or whatever they call it > these days) stuff?? I think that's Photon. > I wonder if QNX would *ever* consider donating the tools to FreeBSD > in return for a "QNX ad" at the start up of the install? Last I heard, photon was their next 'big technology breakthrough', so I highly doubt it. They don't like to give out sources to anything, since they're of the mind that they'd be giving out too much intellectual property that way. And, I have to agree with them since it appears that the QNX folks are doing things quickly/effeciently that other folks only make bogus claims about. They're one of the few folks that have an effecient working micro-kernel that can kick around most monolithic kernel implementations in performance areas, plus have the flexibility and extensibility of being a micro-kernel. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 09:42:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25001 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:42:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA24990 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:42:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrantr@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA22582; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:35:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from col-oh18-25.ix.netcom.com(207.220.130.57) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022573; Mon Dec 1 11:34:56 1997 Message-ID: <3482F5F4.665@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 12:37:56 -0500 From: Richard Scranton Reply-To: scrantr@ix.netcom.com Organization: LDA Systems, Columbus X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) References: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com> <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> <3482CF33.EDC09FC@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is this the same Gordon Bell that designed the PDP-11? Jerry Hicks wrote: > > > Interestingly, at their conference in Toronto last October, Gordon Bell > of QNX emphasized the importance of the freeware phenomenon and promised > their best efforts to contribute to and gain the benefits of cooperating > this channel. > -- __________________________________________________________________ Richard Scranton LDA SYSTEMS Information Management Consulting scrantr@ix.netcom.com Columbus Cincinnati Cleveland Toledo Atlanta From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 10:37:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00104 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:37:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29999 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA19843; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:43:08 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma019839; Mon, 1 Dec 97 12:43:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:42:59 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Mark Mayo cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How does this work on a serial console? Is it currently possible to install FreeBSD with only a serial console anyway (I haven't tried)? Jacques Vidrine On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Mark Mayo wrote: [snip] > You can download a floppy from their site that > will boot a full "X-like" GUI, run a web server, make a PPP connection, > and give you a web browser. [snip] > Man it would > make such a kick-ass FreeBSD installer!! :-) [snip] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 10:57:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA02392 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:57:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02387 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA19883; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:03:39 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma019879; Mon, 1 Dec 97 13:03:30 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:03:30 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Thomas Gellekum cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthreads In-Reply-To: <873ekdciyg.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any clue as to the broken signals in 1.4 and 1.5b1? How did you build 1.5b1? In my build, the interpreter exist after thead.start_new_thread(), although the thread does run to completion. This isn't the behavior I expect, nor find on the Win32 platform. Anyone else out there have applications using pthreads other than Python? Jacques Vidrine On 1 Dec 1997, Thomas Gellekum wrote: > Jacques Vidrine writes: > > > Hi, > > > > Where can I find a status of pthread support for FreeBSD-current? I've > > not had experience with them before, but I have attempted to compile > > Python 1.5b1 with thread support, and the resulting application is not > > stable (in particular I've had problems with signals and the thread APIs > > themselves). > > Python-1.4 seems to work with threads, except for the signals. All the > demos ran fine when I tested it. 1.5b1 is a different matter. There > are some modules that break when you compile with thread support, like > signal and fpectl. That's all I can say for now, I wanted to do some > more tests in the next few days. > > tg > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 11:00:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02784 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:00:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02771 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:00:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA28025; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:54:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga29-13.ix.netcom.com(206.214.125.109) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027905; Mon Dec 1 12:54:07 1997 Message-ID: <348307EE.B4E3BF20@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:54:38 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scrantr@ix.netcom.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) References: <19477.880953184@time.cdrom.com> <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> <3482CF33.EDC09FC@ix.netcom.com> <3482F5F4.665@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Scranton wrote: > > Is this the same Gordon Bell that designed the PDP-11? No, that is C. Gordon Bell. He is currently employed by Microsoft Corporation as a Senior Research Scientist. Gordon Bell (the one I mentioned) has been headed QSSL since the late '70s. He was formerly with NorTel and U. Waterloo. Cheers, Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 11:23:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05134 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:23:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05126 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:23:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04800; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd004756; Mon Dec 1 12:28:43 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19574; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:22:18 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712011922.MAA19574@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:22:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mark@vmunix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3482CF33.EDC09FC@ix.netcom.com> from "Jerry Hicks" at Dec 1, 97 09:52:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As you mentioned, Photon (the GUI), is pretty fantastic, but other than > a similar appearance, has very little in common with X. The design > goals are very different, intended to be embedded into the smallest of > systems. Heh. By implication, X is *supposed* to ake 10M and be impossible to embed in small systems? 8-) 8-). > They've got a free educational program, but are necessarily very > commercially oriented. Somehow, I don't believe this would happen :( So does OSF (er, The Open Group). You can download a copy of CDE if you want to, so long as you don't use it commercially. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 11:52:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08407 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:52:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08386 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:52:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id LAA10723; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:52:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199712011952.LAA10723@grayling.erg.sri.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:52:28 -0800 From: "Fred L. Templin" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: templin@erg.sri.com Subject: copyout()/copyin() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm designing an interface in which I need to move data directly between user and kernel buffers using copyout() and copyin(). The interface works fine when called synchronously within process context (e.g. the user process calls ioctl(), giving the address of a buffer, and the kernel calls copyout() or copyin() to move the data). But, what I really want is an *asynchronous* interface in which the kernel can move data to/from the user buffers from within an interrupt service routine - and it's my understanding that copyout() and copyin() aren't suited for this. Am I wrong about this? If not, are there alternatives to copyout()/copyin() which can be used to implement such an interface? Fred templin@erg.sri.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 12:21:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11256 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:21:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11248 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:21:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous222.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.222]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23161; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:15:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA01843; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:11:32 +0100 (MET) To: Amancio Hasty Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com References: <199712011025.CAA03063@rah.star-gate.com> From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 01 Dec 1997 21:11:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: Amancio Hasty's message of Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:25:51 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 10 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty writes: > Dumb question , > > Are the any plans to re-write the ftp daemon to use aio routines and > use fewer processes to serve connections. A ftpd with Threads? -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.apfel.de/~wosch/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 12:48:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15155 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:48:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15040 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:47:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id PAA00811; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:42:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712012042.PAA00811@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: copyout()/copyin() In-Reply-To: <199712011952.LAA10723@grayling.erg.sri.com> from "Fred L. Templin" at "Dec 1, 97 11:52:28 am" To: templin@erg.sri.com (Fred L. Templin) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:42:35 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, templin@erg.sri.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Fred L. Templin said: > Hi, > > I'm designing an interface in which I need to move data directly between > user and kernel buffers using copyout() and copyin(). The interface works > fine when called synchronously within process context (e.g. the user process > calls ioctl(), giving the address of a buffer, and the kernel calls copyout() > or copyin() to move the data). But, what I really want is an *asynchronous* > interface in which the kernel can move data to/from the user buffers from > within an interrupt service routine - and it's my understanding that copyout() > and copyin() aren't suited for this. Am I wrong about this? If not, are there > alternatives to copyout()/copyin() which can be used to implement such an > interface? > Two ways (off the top of my head) to do it: 1) Queue it to a buffer representation while a process is waiting for the I/O to complete. Transfer the data using read or somesuch in process context, after waking the process up. (This is how read generally works.) One usually ends up using copyin/copyout here directly or indirectly by using uiomove. You have to have a process context active for copyin or copyout to work. (That includes their friends suword, fuword, etc.) 2) Lock the process virtual memory into physical space. Then, map that memory into kernel space. (This is how raw I/O generally works.) Once the memory is wired and mapped into the kernel, no special copyin/copyout is needed, you can just bcopy or use the virtual memory for anything. (Look at kern_physio.c.) Each of the schemes has it's own set of problems. There are probably other ways, I just haven't thought of them here and now. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 13:15:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18718 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:15:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA18713 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:15:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id NAA10819; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:14:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199712012114.NAA10819@grayling.erg.sri.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: "John S. Dyson" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, templin@erg.sri.com Subject: Re: copyout()/copyin() In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:42:35 EST." <199712012042.PAA00811@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:13:57 -0800 From: "Fred L. Templin" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John, > Two ways (off the top of my head) to do it: > > 1) Queue it to a buffer representation while a process is waiting for > the I/O to complete. Transfer the data using read or somesuch in > process context, after waking the process up. (This is how read generally > works.) One usually ends up using copyin/copyout here directly or indirectly > by using uiomove. You have to have a process context active for copyin > or copyout to work. (That includes their friends suword, fuword, etc.) This is essentially what I'm doing right now; I basically only copy the data when driven by the process - either as the result of a synchronous syscall or after the kernel wakes the process up after an asynchronous event. The disadvantage is that I'd really like to move the data directly between the user buffers and device memory; bypassing kernel memory altogether (I know; I failed to mention this in my original message!) Which brings us to: > 2) Lock the process virtual memory into physical space. Then, map that memory > into kernel space. (This is how raw I/O generally works.) Once the memory > is wired and mapped into the kernel, no special copyin/copyout is needed, you > can just bcopy or use the virtual memory for anything. > (Look at kern_physio.c.) I was actually checking into physio() when your message arrived. physio() seems to be appropriate for "semi-synchronous" activities like reading/writing from a raw tape device. The process calling physio() basically posts a raw buffer to the device then sleeps until the device driver calls "iodone" which issues the wakeup(). My scenario calls for the process to post many buffers to the kernel; each of which will be serviced asynchronously. I'm fine with locking the process virtual memory (by setting the "P_PHYSIO" flag?) but am I asking for trouble trying to manage multiple small buffers this way rather than one monolithic buffer as is done for physio()? Also, what happens if my process crashes after I've mapped the pages into kernel space? > Each of the schemes has it's own set of problems. There are probably other > ways, I just haven't thought of them here and now. I searched the archives and noticed that a similar discussion to this took place back in the July '97 timeframe. One of the correspondents (David Greenman, I think?) alluded to the possibility of mapping user buffers into kernel space, but I didn't see any specific suggestions such as the good ones you've given here. Does anyone else have ideas on this? > -- > John > dyson@freebsd.org > jdyson@nc.com Thanks, Fred templin@erg.sri.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 13:18:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA19210 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:18:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from brane.digs.iafrica.com (cMMIowYKxVrpQgp32w3Vf6+QoBxj+TlK@brane.digs.iafrica.com [196.7.162.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA19171 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:18:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from iang@digs.iafrica.com) Received: from digs.iafrica.com [127.0.0.1] ([8l0DoYI81CiDb24NO7Fa+s2TWa8uQvGu]) by brane.digs.iafrica.com with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xccrm-0004EW-00; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:54:54 +0200 To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: Satoshi Asami , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drive Mirroring In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:33:05 PST." X-Attribution: BOFH Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:54:54 +0200 From: Ian Freislich Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jamil J. Weatherbee"... > One problem with this: If the system is rebooted with only one drive it > crashes, second you cannot do a out of the box install on ccded drives so > they are pretty useless tom me for anything but data. > > I actually tried the exact scenario you suggest. This doesn't really make sense to me. I know that you can't do an install onto a ccd (which is a source of irritation for me) but I have a number of servers at work which I have setup or helped setup that have all of their file systems mirrored except for /. I'll admit it's a little laborious to setup, but it can be done. I do a minimal install, create the ccds, copy stuff around and then install source and the rest of the stuff that I want. I'm unsure why you don't want to use ccd. -- igf (Ian Freislich) http://copernicus.iafrica.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 13:22:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA19762 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:22:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19723 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:22:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id QAA04154; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:21:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712012121.QAA04154@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: copyout()/copyin() In-Reply-To: <199712012114.NAA10819@grayling.erg.sri.com> from "Fred L. Templin" at "Dec 1, 97 01:13:57 pm" To: templin@erg.sri.com (Fred L. Templin) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:21:30 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, templin@erg.sri.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Fred L. Templin said: > > I was actually checking into physio() when your message arrived. physio() > seems to be appropriate for "semi-synchronous" activities like reading/writing > from a raw tape device. The process calling physio() basically posts a raw > buffer to the device then sleeps until the device driver calls "iodone" which > issues the wakeup(). My scenario calls for the process to post many buffers to > the kernel; each of which will be serviced asynchronously. I'm fine with > locking the process virtual memory (by setting the "P_PHYSIO" flag?) > That won't keep the process from paging. You'll have to specifically lock memory with either the userland mlock, or add it to some kind of ioctl or read request that would do the right things in the kernel. > >but > am I asking for trouble trying to manage multiple small buffers this way > rather than one monolithic buffer as is done for physio()? > Not really. Look at what I am doing with the AIO code (vfs_aio in -current as of today.) > >Also, what happens > if my process crashes after I've mapped the pages into kernel space? > Unpleasant things like pages being freed with bad hold count crashes. You'll likely want to write a driver that gets called when the process exits (e.g. when the driver is closed.) You might try some kind of rundown mechanism. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 13:23:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA19835 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:23:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA19821 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:22:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA03452 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:20:12 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA01559; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:40:59 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199712012040.VAA01559@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom? To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:40:59 +0100 (MET) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, reyesf@super.zippo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Nov 30, 97 07:19:56 pm X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chuck Robey wrote... > > Winter project for me (note to personal whiteboard): write a simple cvs > user manual. Maybe not complete, but enough to get things going for the > average user! FYI: there was an IMO pretty good article series about CVS in the SunExpert Magazine. 2 parts, in the August 1997 and September 1997 issue. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' ---------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net]BSD Unix ------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 13:32:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21058 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:32:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21050 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:32:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA14573; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:28:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd014567; Mon Dec 1 13:28:47 1997 Message-ID: <34832B83.15FB7483@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:26:28 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Fred L. Templin" CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: copyout()/copyin() References: <199712011952.LAA10723@grayling.erg.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Fred L. Templin wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm designing an interface in which I need to move data directly between > user and kernel buffers using copyout() and copyin(). The interface works > fine when called synchronously within process context (e.g. the user process > calls ioctl(), giving the address of a buffer, and the kernel calls copyout() > or copyin() to move the data). But, what I really want is an *asynchronous* > interface in which the kernel can move data to/from the user buffers from > within an interrupt service routine - and it's my understanding that copyout() > and copyin() aren't suited for this. Am I wrong about this? If not, are there > alternatives to copyout()/copyin() which can be used to implement such an > interface? > > Fred > templin@erg.sri.com look at how the physio() routine maps in pages from the user's address space. (or in fact. USE physio() to do yur work?) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 13:39:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21709 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:39:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21694 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:38:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@netcom.com) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by netcom14.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id NAA03509; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:38:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:38:40 -0800 (PST) From: Amancio Hasty Jr Message-Id: <199712012138.NAA03509@netcom14.netcom.com> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of state machine with the functionality to share data transfers you know to avoid the case of hundreds of users opening a single file N times. Most network engineers are familiar with an event or a state machine driven network server . Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 13:39:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21799 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:39:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21784 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199712012139.NAA21784@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA069692306; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:38:26 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:38:26 +1100 (EDT) Cc: julian@whistle.com, tlambert@primenet.com, dk+@ua.net, proff@iq.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712010404.VAA03532@usr09.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Dec 1, 97 04:04:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Getting back to the topic of detecting DEVFS from userland, if the kernel config file (i.e. GENERIC) was included when compiled - or at least the lines which aren't commented out - and this was available from kernfs as /kern/config, you could do "grep DEVFS /kern/config". Granted this won't tell you if it is or isn't mounted, but is it a start ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 13:45:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22423 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:45:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22411 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:45:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199712012145.NAA22411@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA072062672; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:44:32 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Drive Mirroring To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:44:32 +1100 (EDT) Cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971129194634.50223@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Nov 29, 97 07:46:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Greg Lehey, sie said: > > I'll be doing something like vold, though I haven't decided whether I > really *need* a daemon running all the time. Raid will be a plex > type, along with the standard concatenated and striped kinds. Are you planning on making it handle extending and reducing of filesystem sizes ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 14:18:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25494 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:18:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iq.org (proff@profane.iq.org [203.4.184.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25481 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:18:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from proff@iq.org) Received: (qmail 767 invoked by uid 110); 1 Dec 1997 22:16:39 -0000 To: Darren Reed Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), julian@whistle.com, dk+@ua.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: detecting devfs from userland? References: From: Julian Assange Date: 02 Dec 1997 09:16:39 +1100 In-Reply-To: Darren Reed's message of Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:38:26 +1100 (EDT) Message-ID: Lines: 28 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.52/XEmacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Darren Reed writes: > Getting back to the topic of detecting DEVFS from userland, if the kernel > config file (i.e. GENERIC) was included when compiled - or at least the > lines which aren't commented out - and this was available from kernfs as > /kern/config, you could do "grep DEVFS /kern/config". Granted this won't > tell you if it is or isn't mounted, but is it a start ? > > Darren > Here's what I'm using with autoconf: AC_CACHE_CHECK([if the kernel has DEVFS support enabled], nc_cv_devfs, test -x /usr/bin/lsvfs && (/usr/bin/lsvfs | grep -q devfs) && nc_cv_devfs=yes || nc_cv_devfs=no) if test $nc_cv_devfs = yes; then AC_DEFINE(DEVFS) fi Cheers, Julian. -- Prof. Julian Assange |"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your | Ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down proff@iq.org | people's throats." -- Stolen quote from Howard Aiken proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | http://underground.org/book From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 14:33:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26378 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:33:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dns (dns.ida.net [204.228.203.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA26373 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:33:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (pm-if3-4.ida.net [204.228.203.163]) by dns (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id PAA15389; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:25:54 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:31:16 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: Amancio Hasty Jr cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199712012138.NAA03509@netcom14.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Amancio Hasty Jr wrote: > > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of state machine with > the functionality to share data transfers you know to avoid the > case of hundreds of users opening a single file N times. > > Most network engineers are familiar with an event or a state machine > driven network server . > > Cheers, > Amancio > Initially, I was thinking that port 20 data transfers (as opposed to port 21 control traffic) had to be either separate processes or threads, but now I think you are right -- everything could be done by a synchronous state machine in a single user process, but this might be inefficient. As a compromise to the asynchronous nature of communications, one could imagine a four process implementation; (1) port 21 state machine that wakes up whenever there is control input. (2) state machine which handles all port 21 response messages. (3) data process that handles all incoming data. (4) data process that handles all outgoing data. Although a state machine scales quite well, there are OS problems related to the number of open socket descriptors per process. Also, I am not sure how select() will work in multiplexing a large number of sockets. When packets start queueing up in the kernel, will they be given to a process in order of receipt? Charles Mott (who really likes state machines) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 14:37:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26780 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:37:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from main.intcomm.net (main.intcomm.Net [204.95.133.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26770 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:37:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billwood@intcomm.net) Received: from intcomm.net (radius.intcomm.net [204.95.133.158]) by main.intcomm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA03424 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:43:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34833C08.5B230D62@intcomm.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:36:59 +0000 From: William Wood Organization: Internet Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pptp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If anyone has any suggestions or ideas the following: I would like to set up two servers (Freebsd) that would be connected via the internet using PPTP. How can this be done or what is involve in setting this up? Thank you, Bill Wood From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 14:39:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26960 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:39:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26953 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:39:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA09061 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:39:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA11575; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:22:53 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971201232253.06545@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:22:53 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Jacques Vidrine on Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 12:42:59PM -0600 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jacques Vidrine wrote: > How does this work on a serial console? Is it currently possible to > install FreeBSD with only a serial console anyway (I haven't tried)? Unfortunately not. I'd really like to see this feature in the next generation installer. I haven't looked at TurboVision yet, but i hope it has more of the potential that's required to do this. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 15:11:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA00839 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA00822 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:11:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from devet@adv.IAEhv.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 28589 on Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:11:37 GMT; id XAA28589 efrom: devet@adv.IAEhv.nl; eto: hackers@freebsd.org Received: (from devet@localhost) by adv.IAEhv.nl (8.8.7/8.8.6) id WAA12967; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:55:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:55:21 +0100 (CET) From: Arjan de Vet Message-Id: <199712012155.WAA12967@adv.IAEhv.nl> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pthreads X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: References: <873ekdciyg.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Organization: Internet Access Eindhoven, the Netherlands Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article you write: >Anyone else out there have applications using pthreads other than Python? Squid 1.2beta has the possibility to use pthreads but when I tried it a month ago I couldn't get it to run on FreeBSD (haven't tried it yet after the recent changes to libc_r). I also tried it on BSD/OS recently and it more or less works on BSD/OS 3.1 (not 3.0). Arjan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 15:18:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01463 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:18:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rhiannon.clari.net.au (rhiannon.clari.net.au [203.27.85.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01451 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:17:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au) Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.clari.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13463; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:17:43 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:17:43 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Hawkins Message-Id: <199712012317.KAA13463@rhiannon.clari.net.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: GUI wizard interface Cc: danny@hilink.com.au, j@uriah.heep.sax.de, peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have almost finished writing the first release of a new library intended to make it very easy to put a graphical front end on wizards and managemant tools. Basically all you need to do is write your back end, then define a finite state machine to interface it. The latter is a 5 minute job. You then call the library with a single but fairly versatile and extendable syntax with an option either to: 1. display via ncurses 2. display via X11 3. Have the library spawn of a specially tailored HTTPD on a port of your choice and connect to your tool via your browser. This httpd draws its windows by counting spaces rather than with frames so lynx works fine. It has the ability to keep logs on who connects from where and (shortly) will enable passwording - currently I use ipfw to restrict access. Images it uses are compiled into the library itself so there is no need to maintain multiple files and the images are used by the X11 interface in the form of X bitmaps (again inside the library). To whatever extent is possible it uses the lowest common denominator (very basic html etc) and provides as similar an appearance on any of the displays as it can. Also the interface for driving it in any display mode is identical - in httpd mode, it stores information sent to it when you call it so that it is able to send it when someone connects later. In this way, it maintains the appearance to your code of being called from your library then returning a result for your code to continue. I would like comments on this and in particular, I would be interested to see if there is interest in using it to provide a similar look and feel for management utilities under FreeBSD (though the code is portable). Please note that I believe that with the gui end "in the bag", the whipping up of your favorite tool is likely to be a damn side easier so that they're likely to proliferate. Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 15:50:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04375 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04369 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.interworks.org) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id RAA04567; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:53:34 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712012353.RAA04567@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:53:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: Arjan.deVet@adv.IAEhv.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pthreads Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Anyone else out there have applications using pthreads other than Python? > > Squid 1.2beta has the possibility to use pthreads but when I tried it a > month ago I couldn't get it to run on FreeBSD (haven't tried it yet after > the recent changes to libc_r). I also tried it on BSD/OS recently and it > more or less works on BSD/OS 3.1 (not 3.0). I have some experience in getting an application working with pthreads. I ported the GNAT (Ada95) compiler to FreeBSD which uses pthreads for tasking. Until recently (last week), FreeBSD pthreads returned non-standard error codes. The POSIX spec specifies that the error codes should (shall) be returned to the caller as the return value from the pthread function call. FreeBSD was returning -1, and setting the thread-safe errno to the error code. For instance, a timedout call to pthread_cond_timedwait() would return -1 and set errno to EAGAIN, instead of returning ETIMEDOUT and leaving errno untouched. GNAT uses pthread_cond_timedwait as its mechanism for performing tasking delays and other timed operations. Until I accounted for this non-standard operation, GNAT tasking would not work properly. If you've got access to a -current box, try squid or python on there with the changes to pthreads. Or, you can search for all pthread calls and see if they are relying on error codes being returned from the calls. It is easy enough to search the pthread source in lib/libc_r/uthread/... to see exactly what FreeBSD is returning. Note if you are able to make Squid or Python work with our pthreads, it'd be nice to make it work for both the standard and non-standard versions :-) Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 16:46:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08439 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08429 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:46:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04022; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:10:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004001; Mon Dec 1 11:10:15 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25522; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:46:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712020046.RAA25522@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com To: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:46:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712012138.NAA03509@netcom14.netcom.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr" at Dec 1, 97 01:38:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of state machine with > the functionality to share data transfers you know to avoid the > case of hundreds of users opening a single file N times. > > Most network engineers are familiar with an event or a state machine > driven network server . Converting a sync call into an async call plus a context switch is the general mechanism whereby you implement usr space threading (this is *exactly* what liblwp in SunOS 4.1.3 does, not to be confused with LWP from Solaris 2.x, where Sun reused the name). Topologically, there's no difference between using threading that does call conversion, or doing the call conversion yourself and maintaining a per client state structure instead of relying on the thread local storage/stack to do it for you. The difference is one of programming API more than model. The kernel threading uses a different model, but is broken in other ways (a blocking call on a user thread blocks the kernel schedulable entity, you must give up your CPU in order to make a blocking call, even though your process has more work it's ready to do, etc.). Whenever you say "I want to do call conversion", you are really saying "I want to implement application specific light weight threading". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 16:49:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08677 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:49:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08667 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:49:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA28174; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:48:27 -0800 (PST) To: Peter Hawkins cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, danny@hilink.com.au, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: GUI wizard interface In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:17:43 +1100." <199712012317.KAA13463@rhiannon.clari.net.au> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:48:26 -0800 Message-ID: <28170.881023706@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have almost finished writing the first release of a new library intended > to make it very easy to put a graphical front end on wizards and managemant > tools. Basically all you need to do is write your back end, then define > a finite state machine to interface it. The latter is a 5 minute job. Hmmm. This sounds very promising, though without a bit more detail it's hard for me comment any more significantly on it. Strangely enough, I've also been working on a "wizard" tool these last couple of days since I managed to hand Mike Smith my package & installer hat a few weeks back and am now free to think about different problems in that same general region of the system. Perhaps we can work together on some aspect of this? What I've been working up, essentially, is something which views the problem of doing configuration as defining a set of "contexts", each context being free to either change the context to something else or push a new context onto the context stack, thus deferring the operation until the current context returns and the stack is popped. I've found that by giving each context the ability to paint the screen with various UI objects, bind keys to actions or invoke shell functions and certain system calls, I can pretty much represent all of the ppp configuration screens (which I'm using as a sample problem) in a way that's pretty obvious and, as each context is "closed" I also get reasonable `batched commit' behavior so that things aren't altered until the operation is truly complete. It's basically not much different than the forms paradigm of old, where you could enter a form as a "context" of sorts and potentially enter other sub-forms based on what you did in various fields there. I've just come up with a concise way of representing this which makes sense to me (and may not to anyone else :). I've also written it to deal with the UI objects as fairly abstract objects, so something other than the libdialog calls which I'm using for test purposes could be easily plugged in at some point. How far are you from releasing an ALPHA version? I didn't see any URLs in your message. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 16:50:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08933 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:50:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08920 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04958; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:14:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004935; Mon Dec 1 11:14:03 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25725; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:49:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712020049.RAA25725@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Drive Mirroring To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:49:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712012145.NAA22411@hub.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Dec 2, 97 08:44:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'll be doing something like vold, though I haven't decided whether I > > really *need* a daemon running all the time. Raid will be a plex > > type, along with the standard concatenated and striped kinds. > > Are you planning on making it handle extending and reducing of filesystem > sizes ? You mean "generate extend/reduce events that FS's smart enough to be able to deal with them (ie: *not* FFS or EXT2FS or ... but *maybe* NTFS depending on implementation, or JFS)"? Adding the events is the easy part. The FS's handling the events correctly in an FS specific way is harder. It's an FS problem, not a RAID/CCD problem that you want solved... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 17:03:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09995 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:03:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09979 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:03:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07333; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:26:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd007307; Mon Dec 1 11:26:31 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26394; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:02:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712020102.SAA26394@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com To: cmott@srv.net (Charles Mott) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:02:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hasty@netcom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Charles Mott" at Dec 1, 97 03:31:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Initially, I was thinking that port 20 data transfers (as opposed to port > 21 control traffic) had to be either separate processes or threads, but > now I think you are right -- everything could be done by a synchronous > state machine in a single user process, but this might be inefficient. Unless you used aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel from John Dyson's /sys/kern/vfs_aio.c in -current. Then you could overlap I/O. The distinction to be made here is that async I/O and call-conversion threading mechanisms do not scale on SMP (ie: adding more processors does not make the work get done any more swiftly). The main drawback to user space threading mechanisms (like pthreads and user context management with aio and/or "sigsched", etc.) is SMP and/or cluser scalability. This should, however, work as well as "ddd" or "team". > As a compromise to the asynchronous nature of communications, one could > imagine a four process implementation; > > (1) port 21 state machine that wakes up whenever there is > control input. > > (2) state machine which handles all port 21 response messages. > > (3) data process that handles all incoming data. > > (4) data process that handles all outgoing data. > > Although a state machine scales quite well, there are OS problems related > to the number of open socket descriptors per process. Also, I am not sure > how select() will work in multiplexing a large number of sockets. When > packets start queueing up in the kernel, will they be given to a process > in order of receipt? Part of the brains behind a "work to do engine" design is that you use sfork to share a single per process open file table between several processes ("kernel threads") to overcome this problem. You can also pass off fd's between processes if you don't want to use sfork. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- #36 of Things Computer Scientists Do That Make No Sense To The Clueless(tm) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- As an interesting experiment, build "team" for your WWW server, and replace your GIF's with cgi's that use "team" to blow the GIF's out using multiple process overlapped I/O. Wheee! Now your WWW server seems much faster, doesn't it? (Note: team's synchronization on an SMP SPARC box fails -- Solaris has a bug -- use "ddd" instead if you run the experiment there). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- You could do FTP the same way... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 18:11:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14766 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14759 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:11:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id VAA08364; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:00:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712020200.VAA08364@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199712020102.SAA26394@usr07.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 2, 97 01:02:15 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:00:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: cmott@srv.net, hasty@netcom.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > Initially, I was thinking that port 20 data transfers (as opposed to port > > 21 control traffic) had to be either separate processes or threads, but > > now I think you are right -- everything could be done by a synchronous > > state machine in a single user process, but this might be inefficient. > > Unless you used aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel from John Dyson's > /sys/kern/vfs_aio.c in -current. Then you could overlap I/O. > > The distinction to be made here is that async I/O and call-conversion > threading mechanisms do not scale on SMP (ie: adding more processors > does not make the work get done any more swiftly). The main drawback > to user space threading mechanisms (like pthreads and user context > management with aio and/or "sigsched", etc.) is SMP and/or cluser > scalability. > > This should, however, work as well as "ddd" or "team". > Actually, I have been thinking about carrying the code into a clean abstraction. Right now, I have a "shortcut" for VCHR files (physio type I/O), and it could also be extended to sockets, pipes, etc. At that point, it seems that a switch-type capability would be neat. I know that I could do sockets and pipes pretty quickly. Our AIO physio mechanism is actually about as efficient as it can be (plus/minus some LL optimizations.) -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 18:17:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15132 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:17:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15122 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:16:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id SAA13046; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:14:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id MAA00548; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:54:51 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19971202125450.58813@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:54:50 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: Darren Reed , jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drive Mirroring References: <199712012145.NAA22411@hub.freebsd.org> <199712020049.RAA25725@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199712020049.RAA25725@usr07.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 12:49:50AM +0000 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 12:49:50AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> I'll be doing something like vold, though I haven't decided whether I >>> really *need* a daemon running all the time. Raid will be a plex >>> type, along with the standard concatenated and striped kinds. >> >> Are you planning on making it handle extending and reducing of filesystem >> sizes ? > > You mean "generate extend/reduce events that FS's smart enough to be > able to deal with them (ie: *not* FFS or EXT2FS or ... but *maybe* > NTFS depending on implementation, or JFS)"? > > Adding the events is the easy part. The FS's handling the events correctly > in an FS specific way is harder. > > It's an FS problem, not a RAID/CCD problem that you want solved... Precisely. So the answer, at least at the moment, is "no". It will be possible to extend the volume size, but this won't make any difference to the size of a file system in the volume. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 18:46:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17202 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:46:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@libya-208.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17191 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:46:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03321; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:47:12 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:47:12 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <24693.880972189@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I was thinking if you're going to design it from scratch, why not detach > > the UI from the rest of it from the beginning, making it easier for some X > > die-hard (read: me, or someone else with too much free time) to make an > > X-ish (or even {Web|interface-of-the-month-ish) interface for it. > > Because if I try to do that, I've got to take time out to *implement* > all the interface library objects on at least the ncurses end of > things vs being able to simply grab TurboVision and use all of its > objects right off the bat. :) Huh? I was thinking that you should say put (& make) functions like for instance, install distrubition, and most of the other options under the configure menu in a libraray, and use TurboVision (or whatever) as a wrapper for that. That way, one could use C (and their favorite widget library), or perl, or whatever, to write an interface of their liking on top of that. AFAIK that wouldn't require any tweaking to your UI of choice. Kinda like libftpio, which is afaik UI independant. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 18:50:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17513 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:50:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17499 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA20661; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:56:49 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma020656; Mon, 1 Dec 97 20:56:39 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:56:35 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: "Daniel M. Eischen" cc: Arjan.deVet@adv.IAEhv.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pthreads In-Reply-To: <199712012353.RAA04567@iworks.InterWorks.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Python 1.5b1 doesn't work on -current dated 11/21. :-( Thanks for the feedback, though. I was uncertain of whether I wanted to delve into getting thread support working with Python because I didn't know if it had a chance. :-) But this weekend I'll use your comments (and hopefully those of others) to get in a bit deeper. Jacques Vidrine On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Daniel M. Eischen wrote: > I have some experience in getting an application working with pthreads. > I ported the GNAT (Ada95) compiler to FreeBSD which uses pthreads for > tasking. Until recently (last week), FreeBSD pthreads returned non-standard > error codes. The POSIX spec specifies that the error codes should (shall) > be returned to the caller as the return value from the pthread function call. > FreeBSD was returning -1, and setting the thread-safe errno to the error > code. > > For instance, a timedout call to pthread_cond_timedwait() would return -1 > and set errno to EAGAIN, instead of returning ETIMEDOUT and leaving errno > untouched. GNAT uses pthread_cond_timedwait as its mechanism for performing > tasking delays and other timed operations. Until I accounted for this > non-standard operation, GNAT tasking would not work properly. > > If you've got access to a -current box, try squid or python on there > with the changes to pthreads. Or, you can search for all pthread > calls and see if they are relying on error codes being returned from > the calls. It is easy enough to search the pthread source in > lib/libc_r/uthread/... to see exactly what FreeBSD is returning. > > Note if you are able to make Squid or Python work with our pthreads, > it'd be nice to make it work for both the standard and non-standard > versions :-) > > Dan Eischen > deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 19:04:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA18434 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:04:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rhiannon.clari.net.au (rhiannon.clari.net.au [203.27.85.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA18414 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:04:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au) Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.clari.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17066; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:04:04 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:04:04 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Hawkins Message-Id: <199712020304.OAA17066@rhiannon.clari.net.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au Subject: Re: GUI wizard interface Cc: danny@hilink.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hmmm. This sounds very promising, though without a bit more detail >it's hard for me comment any more significantly on it. Strangely >enough, I've also been working on a "wizard" tool these last couple of >days since I managed to hand Mike Smith my package & installer hat a >few weeks back and am now free to think about different problems in >that same general region of the system. Perhaps we can work together >on some aspect of this? Sure! How about you send me the code to your back end (the ppp thing which calls it) so I can get a feel for your contexts concept? In my case, the interface you'd write would be a finite state machine but it sounds sort of similar. The alpha will be out (I hope) within a week. I had envisaged that 1.1 would have an improved interface which I'd write using lex and define a syntax to be an alternative to direct calls. Perhaps I could encompass your contexts that way? The finite state machine doesn't push or pop states as it is; here is a crude example... exithandle() { cvend(); } display( char *result) { cvprintf("user added",result,"ok",mainmenu,"back",mainmenu,"cancel",exithandle); } adduser( char *result) { cvdialoglist( "Add an account", "type in up to 4 values", "enter username", "enter account name", "enter uid", "home directory", "back", mainmenu, "next", display ); } mainmenu() { cvbuttonlist( "Account manager", "press your button", "add new account", adduser, "delete account", deluser, "cancel", exithandle ); } main() { cvinit( stuff ); mainmenu(); } items are buttons or dialogs. buttons are followed by a handler routine name and the names "ok" "next" "back" and "cancel" are special - always buttons and are placed in the navigation bar at the bottom of the screen. cvprintf() is used to display messages and results. I am planning to add cvmatrix() which will combine all the above into a single call defining a state matrix. Peter Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 19:16:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19557 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:16:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kinclaith.pdl.cs.cmu.edu (KINCLAITH.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.189.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA19552 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:16:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpetrou@KINCLAITH.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU) Message-Id: <199712020316.TAA19552@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: RE: CPU Load To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:15:28 -0500 (EST) From: David Petrou X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-40] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that there's a lot of misinformation being posted here re: cpu load. Just look at the relevant code from vm/vm_meter.c: static void loadav(struct loadavg *avg) { register int i, nrun; register struct proc *p; for (nrun = 0, p = allproc.lh_first; p != 0; p = p->p_list.le_next) { switch (p->p_stat) { case SSLEEP: if (p->p_priority > PZERO || p->p_slptime != 0) continue; /* fall through */ case SRUN: case SIDL: nrun++; } } for (i = 0; i < 3; i++) avg->ldavg[i] = (cexp[i] * avg->ldavg[i] + nrun * FSCALE * (FSCALE - cexp[i])) >> FSHIFT; } The important part is nrun... If a process is in SRUN or SIDL or it has a higher priority (lower numerically) than PZERO _AND_ it has slept less than a second, the process is counted. (That last clause covers fast disk operations...) David From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 19:17:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19742 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kinclaith.pdl.cs.cmu.edu (KINCLAITH.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.189.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA19727 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpetrou@KINCLAITH.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU) Message-Id: <199712020317.TAA19727@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: sorry, wrong list... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:17:03 -0500 (EST) From: David Petrou X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-40] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ignore my last message re: cpu load. I intended it to go to the stable list. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 19:36:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21500 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:36:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21495 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:36:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA29603; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:36:16 -0800 (PST) To: Alex cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:47:12 PST." Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:36:16 -0800 Message-ID: <29598.881033776@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Huh? I was thinking that you should say put (& make) functions like for > instance, install distrubition, and most of the other options under the > configure menu in a libraray, and use TurboVision (or whatever) as a > wrapper for that. That way, one could use C (and their favorite widget It's not quite that simple, I'm afraid. Sure, you can always implement the core functionality of "sysinstall" as a series of libraries which could conceivably be used by other installers - one could arguably say that this is already the case today with things like libdisk, libdialog, and the pkg_install tools being stand-alone items which sysinstall also relies heavily on to do its own work. Not much *in* /usr/src/release/sysinstall itself, really, except for lots of grotty glue code to hang it all together and perhaps one or two small subsystems which might conceivably be library-ized to some useful purpose (though I can't think of what at the moment, to be honest). It's the UI which is the principal problem here, and layering reasonably simplistic UI abstractions on top of TurboVision is rather difficult given that TV is a seriously C++-ish toolkit which rather expects you to subclass all of your UI objects from its own and derive your more specific behavior in the other direction. If I went to the abstract UI model, I'd simply implement the appropriate objects in ncurses and toss TV. However, since TV also happens to be the best looking toolkit we've got or have seen to date, we're probably going to be stuck doing interfaces its way. The alternative is to either get lost in the problem of trying to map the very OOPish TV toolkit to some non-OOP scripting language like TCL* or to spend some seriously ugly time with ncurses in generating the "most common denominator" interface objects for your UI-neutral installation tool. With TV, one could just dive in and start prototyping pieces of the interface with a high degree of reusability for the final 3.0 installation product. It's kind of a choice between purity and pragmatism, basically. :( Another option which hasn't really been explored is the idea of using TurboVision's UI model and making an API compliant version that uses X windows for all the various objects, e.g. you just write the installation utility as a wrapper which loads the main body and the turbovision library of choice dynamically based on $DISPLAY. But someone would also have to be insane enough to do a version of TV for X. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 20:11:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24173 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:11:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24163 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:11:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id UAA24644; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:11:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id MAA00896; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:05:24 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971202150522.15474@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:05:22 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Archie Cobbs , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems References: <199712020023.QAA21293@bubba.whistle.com> <28289.881024926@time.cdrom.com> <19971202150001.62358@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19971202150001.62358@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 03:00:01PM +1100 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 05:08:46PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>> cross posted to questions and bugs.. hope that's ok ] > > Erm, not really - better to leave it in -questions until you're sure > it's a bug. :) Well, I'm sure it's not a question, so I'm following up to -hackers. I've seen this on my machines several times in the last few days, since upgrading to a new version of -current. I don't know if it's the same problem, but I do know that it's happening frequently on different machines, when it didn't do before, so I'd call it a bug. Since it appears to be happening both on -current (my machines) and 2.2.5-RELEASE (Archie's machine), I'm copying -hackers in the hope of getting most people without spamming them. OK? >> Now I'm seeing two problems that have occasionally plagued me before. >> They seem to have been around for a long time... >> >> Problem #1: switching virtual consoles while X is running > > I've never had a problem with this at all, not under any of our > significant branches. You'd need to clarify which X server you're > using and with what card. 1. freebie.lemis.com: Running Accelerated-X 1.4 with ATI Mach 64 and Matrox Millenium I 4 MB. The X server configuration hasn't changed in 8 months. 2. papillon.lemis.com: Running XFree86 3.3.2 on a C&T 65545. I think you'll agree that these environments are sufficiently different to point away from the server. In each case, I've had lockups when changing VTs. I know this isn't enough to identify a bug, but it should be a "heads up" that something might be wrong. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 20:56:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27714 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:56:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27707 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01727; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:50:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712020450.UAA01727@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Charles Mott cc: Amancio Hasty Jr , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:31:16 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:50:47 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Amancio Hasty Jr wrote: > > > > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of state machine with > > the functionality to share data transfers you know to avoid the > > case of hundreds of users opening a single file N times. > > > > Most network engineers are familiar with an event or a state machine > > driven network server . > > > > Cheers, > > Amancio > > > > Initially, I was thinking that port 20 data transfers (as opposed to port > 21 control traffic) had to be either separate processes or threads, but > now I think you are right -- everything could be done by a synchronous > state machine in a single user process, but this might be inefficient. You can do it as you have suggested also the thing to keep in mind is the cost of per connection and memory. For instance a process context switch plus the over head of a process is not a very efficient mechanism for large scale ftp servers. Have Fun Guys, Amancio > As a compromise to the asynchronous nature of communications, one could > imagine a four process implementation; > > (1) port 21 state machine that wakes up whenever there is > control input. > > (2) state machine which handles all port 21 response messages. > > (3) data process that handles all incoming data. > > (4) data process that handles all outgoing data. > > Although a state machine scales quite well, there are OS problems related > to the number of open socket descriptors per process. Also, I am not sure I am not sure if that is an approach implementation issue or an OS issue no matter what the kernel has to keep the state information for connection oriented states for all processes. > how select() will work in multiplexing a large number of sockets. When > packets start queueing up in the kernel, will they be given to a process > in order of receipt? > > Charles Mott > (who really likes state machines) > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 20:59:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28064 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:59:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28053 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:59:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01761; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:56:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712020456.UAA01761@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: joelh@gnu.org cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:10:04 CST." <199712012310.RAA04045@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:56:08 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Not really , I am afraid I did this sort of things 10 years ago for Touch Communications and at Daisy. With Dyson's recent contribution to the kernel (aio routines ) we are almost at the point in which we can start tackling very large scalable servers 8) I guess for database companies or systems in which they implement their file system --- Dyson's aio routines are heaven .. Enjoy, Amancio > > > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of state machine with > > the functionality to share data transfers you know to avoid the > > case of hundreds of users opening a single file N times. > > Most network engineers are familiar with an event or a state machine > > driven network server . > > Well, I'll be the first to admit I'm no such engineer. I know about > state machines, etc, but haven't considered the network server aspect > of it. Could you tell me where I can find something out? > > Thanks, > joelh > > -- > Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan > Fourth law of programming: > Anything that can go wrong wi > sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 21:06:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28624 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:06:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28601 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:06:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00235; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:05:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:05:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Ian Freislich cc: Satoshi Asami , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drive Mirroring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The main problem has to do with the kind of people that need to be able to make the system work when it crashes. We are not talking about unix geniuses here it is just their web server and If a disk stops they want to have it replaced later without stopping the system for 24 hours to get someone knowledgeable out there to fix it. This is my main concern. And in this respect it looks like rdist might work for me but there are still some security issues I need to resolve + that rdist doesn't do continuous updates like ccd. On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Ian Freislich wrote: > "Jamil J. Weatherbee"... > > One problem with this: If the system is rebooted with only one drive it > > crashes, second you cannot do a out of the box install on ccded drives so > > they are pretty useless tom me for anything but data. > > > > I actually tried the exact scenario you suggest. > > This doesn't really make sense to me. I know that you can't do an > install onto a ccd (which is a source of irritation for me) but I > have a number of servers at work which I have setup or helped setup > that have all of their file systems mirrored except for /. > > I'll admit it's a little laborious to setup, but it can be done. > I do a minimal install, create the ccds, copy stuff around and then > install source and the rest of the stuff that I want. > > I'm unsure why you don't want to use ccd. > > -- igf (Ian Freislich) > http://copernicus.iafrica.com/ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 21:07:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28709 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:07:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28688 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:06:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01819; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:05:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712020505.VAA01819@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: cmott@srv.net (Charles Mott), hasty@netcom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:02:15 GMT." <199712020102.SAA26394@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 21:05:33 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Initially, I was thinking that port 20 data transfers (as opposed to port > > 21 control traffic) had to be either separate processes or threads, but > > now I think you are right -- everything could be done by a synchronous > > state machine in a single user process, but this might be inefficient. > > Unless you used aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel from John Dyson's > /sys/kern/vfs_aio.c in -current. Then you could overlap I/O. > > The distinction to be made here is that async I/O and call-conversion > threading mechanisms do not scale on SMP (ie: adding more processors > does not make the work get done any more swiftly). The main drawback > to user space threading mechanisms (like pthreads and user context > management with aio and/or "sigsched", etc.) is SMP and/or cluser > scalability. You are right and that depends on how the I/O subsystem is architected or how low level i/o calls are routed thru the system. For an SMP architecture one could implement multiple state machine servers. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 23:17:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06219 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:17:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from lily.ezo.net (root@lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06146; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:17:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from lily.ezo.net (jflowers@localhost.ezo.net [127.0.0.1]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA24479; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:17:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:17:15 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Flowers To: skip-info@skip.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-test@freebsd.org cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" Subject: Skip 1.0 for FreeBSD 2.5.5 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Patches for Skip Source Release 1.0 that compile cleanly on FreeBSD 2.5.5 are available from http://www.vip-link.com/pub/vip/skip/. Initial tests indicate all functions work including skiptool with X-windows (except for pop-up display of statistics). Please feel free to download and use. Email any comments or bug reports to my attention. Jim Flowers #4 ISP on C|NET, #1 in Ohio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 23:37:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07699 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:37:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07686 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:37:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thomas@ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA20077; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:37:01 +0100 (CET) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA23366; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:37:00 +0100 (CET) To: Jacques Vidrine Cc: "Daniel M. Eischen" , Arjan.deVet@adv.IAEhv.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthreads References: From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 02 Dec 1997 08:37:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jacques Vidrine's message of Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:56:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <87soscb3hf.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacques Vidrine writes: > Python 1.5b1 doesn't work on -current dated 11/21. :-( Too old. The thread patches went in last week, aroung 11/25. tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 23:42:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08130 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:42:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08123 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:42:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA01001; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:42:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000999; Mon Dec 1 23:42:05 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA27819; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712020742.XAA27819@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems In-Reply-To: <199712020533.OAA20145@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> from Kazutaka YOKOTA at "Dec 2, 97 02:33:02 pm" To: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (Kazutaka YOKOTA) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:42:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI- this discussion is going on in two groups: hackers and bugs. In the interest of not leaving anyone out, I'm sending this only to hackers and cc'ing as appropriate... Kazutaka YOKOTA writes: > >> After keyboard locks up, pressing locking keys (num-lock, caps-lock, > >> scroll-lock) changes LED state? > > > >Not sure... I'm at work right now... but ctl-alt-del works. > > In that case, I suspect that the system and the console driver is > alive. But syscons is somehow made to believe that the screen > switching is still in progress. > > Would you tell me how the X server is started in which VT? And can > you exactly recall the sequence of events which led to lock-up? > Was the X server reset, by xdm or by SIGHUP, while in the background > by any chance? Here is how I get this to happen. It's definitely timing related. The fact that I always do the same thing after the machine boots means I've gotten fast enough to trigger the bug almost every time... :-) Actually, you don't have to be that fast, but being real slow about everything does seem to avoid the problem. [ For simplicity, in the following the VT's start numbering at 1 so they correspond with the function keys.. ] 0. Boot FreeBSD 1. I have VT1 - VT6 with getty login screens, so X appears on VT7 2. CTL-ALT-F5 and login as "archie" on VT5. Start X running. 3. Screen flashes VT1 briefly, then video resets and displays X screen 4. CTL-ALT-F4 to get to VT4 and login as "root" 5. Run command "xwin", which is an alias that pops two root windows up on the X console. 6. CTL-ALT-F7 to get VT7 back to X, ready to happily get to work. 7. Keyboard hangs, screen does NOT switch away from VT4, keyboard leds DO still work, but CTL-ALT-F[1-7] just beeps at me. I'm pretty sure machine responds to pings as well. 8. CTL-ALT-DEL to reboot 9. Rinse & repeat More info... vga0 rev 1 int a irq 10 on pci0:12 sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> XFree86 Version 3.3.1 / X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6300) Release Date: August 4 1997 If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting problems. (see http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ) Operating System: FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE i386 Configured drivers: S3V: accelerated server for S3 graphics adaptors (Patchlevel 0) s3_ViRGE Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) (using VT number 7) -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 1 23:54:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08933 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:54:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08928 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:54:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id XAA11309; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id PAA01358; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:43:03 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971202184301.28646@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:43:01 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" Cc: Ian Freislich , Satoshi Asami , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Drive Mirroring References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Jamil J. Weatherbee on Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 09:05:47PM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 09:05:47PM -0800, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > >> "Jamil J. Weatherbee"... >>> One problem with this: If the system is rebooted with only one drive it >>> crashes, second you cannot do a out of the box install on ccded drives so >>> they are pretty useless tom me for anything but data. >>> >>> I actually tried the exact scenario you suggest. >> >> This doesn't really make sense to me. I know that you can't do an >> install onto a ccd (which is a source of irritation for me) but I >> have a number of servers at work which I have setup or helped setup >> that have all of their file systems mirrored except for /. >> >> I'll admit it's a little laborious to setup, but it can be done. >> I do a minimal install, create the ccds, copy stuff around and then >> install source and the rest of the stuff that I want. >> >> I'm unsure why you don't want to use ccd. > > The main problem has to do with the kind of people that need to be able to > make the system work when it crashes. We are not talking about unix > geniuses here it is just their web server and If a disk stops they want to > have it replaced later without stopping the system for 24 hours to get > someone knowledgeable out there to fix it. This is my main concern. And > in this respect it looks like rdist might work for me but there are still > some security issues I need to resolve + that rdist doesn't do continuous > updates like ccd. rdist isn't really replicated. ccd is, but the fact that it won't recover from a crash makes it all but useless. As you point out, without experienced personnel, if a disk dies you could spend longer reconfiguring than reading in a backup. This doesn't have to be that way, of course. My RAID solution will not crash if a component goes down. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 00:17:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA10342 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:17:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10330 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:17:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA27641; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA26997; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10175; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:17:11 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199712020817.AAA10175@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:17:09 -0800 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fixes for "LAND" and various other TCP bugs Cc: fenner@PARC.XEROX.COM, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, jas@flyingfox.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While studying the "LAND" bug I stumbled across a couple of other things that look like bugs in the FreeBSD TCP code. The most serious is that the introduction of the segment trimming fix from Stevens looks like it introduced a bug in RST processing that allows reset segments with sequence numbers spanning half the sequence number space to be accepted as valid and processed, which is contrary to RFC 793. I think the original code didn't really get this totally right, either. The second is that reset segments terminate connections in the TIME-WAIT state. While this is what RFC 793 says to do, it is discouraged by RFC 1337. The attached patch contains three partially redundant fixes (two new ones plus the present one relocated) for the "LAND" DoS attack and a related problem (ACK wars caused by sending spoofed SYNs to two listening sockets) as well as fixes the above problems. I did not include the following change suggested by RFC 1337 in section 2.1, but the final part of my "LAND" fix is really a special case of this: H2. The new connection may be de-synchronized, with the two ends in permanent disagreement on the state. Following the spec of RFC-793, this desynchronization results in an infinite ACK loop. (It might be reasonable to change this aspect of RFC- 793 and kill the connection instead.) I'm wondering if it might be wise to actually make this change, since it should provide at least partial protection against TCP splicing attacks. Something else that is missing is a fix for the potential to connect two listening sockets to each other by sending them each forged SYNs with carefully chosen sequence numbers. This should be easy to fix if RFC 1122 is followed: 4.2.2.11 Recovery from Old Duplicate SYN: RFC-793 Section 3.4, page 33 Note that a TCP implementation MUST keep track of whether a connection has reached SYN_RCVD state as the result of a passive OPEN or an active OPEN. If this is the case, we would only expect to see a SYN-ACK in the SYN-RECEIVED state if the previous state was SYN-SENT. If the previous state was not SYN-SENT, then an RST should be sent and the connection dropped. This patch changes the location of the currently implemented "LAND" bug fix, which should allow legitimate self-connects to work. My testing with my 2.1-stable machine indicates that it is not vulnerable to the problem even without this protective measure. I *think* this is the correct fix, but I'm interested in any comments from the TCP experts, especially with regards to T/TCP. --- tcp_input.c.2_2 Mon Dec 1 16:49:21 1997 +++ tcp_input.c Mon Dec 1 22:28:58 1997 @@ -318,19 +318,6 @@ #endif /* TUBA_INCLUDE */ /* - * Reject attempted self-connects. XXX This actually masks - * a bug elsewhere, since self-connect should work. - * However, a urrently-active DoS attack in the Internet - * sends a phony self-connect request which causes an infinite - * loop. - */ - if (ti->ti_src.s_addr == ti->ti_dst.s_addr - && ti->ti_sport == ti->ti_dport) { - tcpstat.tcps_badsyn++; - goto drop; - } - - /* * Check that TCP offset makes sense, * pull out TCP options and adjust length. XXX */ @@ -654,6 +641,24 @@ if (m->m_flags & (M_BCAST|M_MCAST) || IN_MULTICAST(ntohl(ti->ti_dst.s_addr))) goto drop; + + /* + * Reject attempted self-connects. + * + * Doing the test here should prevent the "LAND" DoS + * attack without affecting legitimate self-connects + * which will occur in the SYN-SENT state. + * + * In the dropafterack code below we'll also fix the real + * bug in the SYN-RECEIVED state that causes the infinite + * loop since it can also be used to generate ACK storms. + */ + if (ti->ti_src.s_addr == ti->ti_dst.s_addr + && ti->ti_sport == ti->ti_dport) { + tcpstat.tcps_badsyn++; + goto drop; + } + am = m_get(M_DONTWAIT, MT_SONAME); /* XXX */ if (am == NULL) goto drop; @@ -962,17 +967,99 @@ /* * States other than LISTEN or SYN_SENT. - * First check timestamp, if present. + * First check the RST flag and sequence number since reset segments + * are exempt from the timestamp and connection count tests. This + * fixes a bug introduced by the Stevens, vol. 2, p. 960 bugfix + * below which allowed reset segments in half the sequence space + * to fall though and be processed (which gives forged reset + * segments with a random sequence number a 50 percent chance of + * killing a connection). + * Then check timestamp, if present. * Then check the connection count, if present. * Then check that at least some bytes of segment are within * receive window. If segment begins before rcv_nxt, * drop leading data (and SYN); if nothing left, just ack. * + * + * If the RST bit is set, check the sequence number to see + * if this is a valid reset segment. + * RFC 793 page 37: + * In all states except SYN-SENT, all reset (RST) segments + * are validated by checking their SEQ-fields. A reset is + * valid if its sequence number is in the window. + * Note: this does not take into account delayed ACKs, so + * we should test against last_ack_sent instead of rcv_nxt. + * Also, it does not make sense to allow reset segments with + * sequence numbers greater than last_ack_sent to be processed + * since these sequence numbers are just the acknowledgement + * numbers in our outgoing packets being echoed back at us, + * and these acknowledgement numbers are monotonically + * increasing. + * If we have multiple segments in flight, the intial reset + * segment sequence numbers will be to the left of last_ack_sent, + * but they will eventually catch up. + * In any case, it never made sense to trim reset segments to + * fit the receive window since RFC 1122 says: + * 4.2.2.12 RST Segment: RFC-793 Section 3.4 + * + * A TCP SHOULD allow a received RST segment to include data. + * + * DISCUSSION + * It has been suggested that a RST segment could contain + * ASCII text that encoded and explained the cause of the + * RST. No standard has yet been established for such + * data. + * + * If the reset segment passes the sequence number test examine + * the state: + * SYN_RECEIVED STATE: + * If passive open, return to LISTEN state. + * If active open, inform user that connection was refused. + * ESTABLISHED, FIN_WAIT_1, FIN_WAIT2, CLOSE_WAIT STATES: + * Inform user that connection was reset, and close tcb. + * CLOSING, LAST_ACK, TIME_WAIT STATES + * Close the tcb. + * TIME_WAIT state: + * Drop the segment - see Stevens, vol. 2, p. 964 and + * RFC 1337. + */ + if (tiflags&TH_RST) { + if (tp->last_ack_sent == ti->ti_seq) { + switch (tp->t_state) { + + case TCPS_SYN_RECEIVED: + so->so_error = ECONNREFUSED; + goto close; + + case TCPS_ESTABLISHED: + case TCPS_FIN_WAIT_1: + case TCPS_FIN_WAIT_2: + case TCPS_CLOSE_WAIT: + so->so_error = ECONNRESET; + close: + tp->t_state = TCPS_CLOSED; + tcpstat.tcps_drops++; + tp = tcp_close(tp); + break; + + case TCPS_CLOSING: + case TCPS_LAST_ACK: + tp = tcp_close(tp); + break; + + case TCPS_TIME_WAIT: + break; + } + } + goto drop; + } + + /* * RFC 1323 PAWS: If we have a timestamp reply on this segment * and it's less than ts_recent, drop it. */ - if ((to.to_flag & TOF_TS) != 0 && (tiflags & TH_RST) == 0 && - tp->ts_recent && TSTMP_LT(to.to_tsval, tp->ts_recent)) { + if ((to.to_flag & TOF_TS) != 0 && tp->ts_recent && + TSTMP_LT(to.to_tsval, tp->ts_recent)) { /* Check to see if ts_recent is over 24 days old. */ if ((int)(tcp_now - tp->ts_recent_age) > TCP_PAWS_IDLE) { @@ -1003,10 +1090,19 @@ * RST segments do not have to comply with this. */ if ((tp->t_flags & (TF_REQ_CC|TF_RCVD_CC)) == (TF_REQ_CC|TF_RCVD_CC) && - ((to.to_flag & TOF_CC) == 0 || tp->cc_recv != to.to_cc) && - (tiflags & TH_RST) == 0) + ((to.to_flag & TOF_CC) == 0 || tp->cc_recv != to.to_cc)) goto dropafterack; + /* + * In the SYN-RECEIVED state, validate that the packet belongs to + * this connection before trimming the data to fit the receive + * window. Check the sequence number versus IRS since we know + * the sequence numbers haven't wrapped. This is a partial fix + * for the "LAND" DoS attack. + */ + if (tp->t_state == TCPS_SYN_RECEIVED && SEQ_LT(ti->ti_seq, tp->irs)) + goto dropwithreset; + todrop = tp->rcv_nxt - ti->ti_seq; if (todrop > 0) { if (tiflags & TH_SYN) { @@ -1118,40 +1214,6 @@ } /* - * If the RST bit is set examine the state: - * SYN_RECEIVED STATE: - * If passive open, return to LISTEN state. - * If active open, inform user that connection was refused. - * ESTABLISHED, FIN_WAIT_1, FIN_WAIT2, CLOSE_WAIT STATES: - * Inform user that connection was reset, and close tcb. - * CLOSING, LAST_ACK, TIME_WAIT STATES - * Close the tcb. - */ - if (tiflags&TH_RST) switch (tp->t_state) { - - case TCPS_SYN_RECEIVED: - so->so_error = ECONNREFUSED; - goto close; - - case TCPS_ESTABLISHED: - case TCPS_FIN_WAIT_1: - case TCPS_FIN_WAIT_2: - case TCPS_CLOSE_WAIT: - so->so_error = ECONNRESET; - close: - tp->t_state = TCPS_CLOSED; - tcpstat.tcps_drops++; - tp = tcp_close(tp); - goto drop; - - case TCPS_CLOSING: - case TCPS_LAST_ACK: - case TCPS_TIME_WAIT: - tp = tcp_close(tp); - goto drop; - } - - /* * If a SYN is in the window, then this is an * error and we send an RST and drop the connection. */ @@ -1660,9 +1722,26 @@ /* * Generate an ACK dropping incoming segment if it occupies * sequence space, where the ACK reflects our state. + * + * We can now skip the test for the RST flag since all + * paths to this code happen after packets containing + * RST have been dropped. + * + * In the SYN-RECEIVED state, don't send an ACK unless the + * segment we received passes the SYN-RECEIVED ACK test. + * If it fails send a RST. This breaks the loop in the + * "LAND" DoS attack, and also prevents an ACK storm + * between two listening ports that have been sent forged + * SYN segments, each with the source address of the other. */ - if (tiflags & TH_RST) - goto drop; + if (tp->t_state == TCPS_SYN_RECEIVED) { + if ((tiflags & TH_ACK) == 0) + goto drop; + else if (SEQ_GT(tp->snd_una, ti->ti_ack) || + SEQ_GT(ti->ti_ack, tp->snd_max)) + goto dropwithreset; + /* else fall through */ + } #ifdef TCPDEBUG if (so->so_options & SO_DEBUG) tcp_trace(TA_DROP, ostate, tp, &tcp_saveti, 0); --- Truck From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 00:32:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11450 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11439 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:32:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15970; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:34:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712020834.AAA15970@implode.root.com> To: Amancio Hasty cc: Charles Mott , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:50:47 PST." <199712020450.UAA01727@rah.star-gate.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 00:34:30 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Amancio Hasty Jr wrote: >> > >> > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of state machine with >> > the functionality to share data transfers you know to avoid the >> > case of hundreds of users opening a single file N times. >> > >> > Most network engineers are familiar with an event or a state machine >> > driven network server . >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Amancio >> > >> >> Initially, I was thinking that port 20 data transfers (as opposed to port >> 21 control traffic) had to be either separate processes or threads, but >> now I think you are right -- everything could be done by a synchronous >> state machine in a single user process, but this might be inefficient. > >You can do it as you have suggested also the thing to keep in mind is the >cost of per connection and memory. For instance a process context switch >plus the over head of a process is not a very efficient mechanism for >large scale ftp servers. Oh? Are you speaking as an authority on this subject? :-) Actually, context switch overhead is not a problem. Processes in FreeBSD are fairly light weight in terms of memory as well and most of the memory is consumed by socket and disk buffers, not by the overhead of a process (at least in my implementation of ftpd). Anyway, I don't mean to squelch the conversation regarding this, but I do ask that people not make silly assumptions without first actually studying the problem. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 00:39:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12066 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:39:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12060 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:39:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA02290; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd002286; Tue Dec 2 00:37:06 1997 Message-ID: <3483C827.695678E2@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 00:34:47 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Archie Cobbs CC: Kazutaka YOKOTA , jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems References: <199712020742.XAA27819@bubba.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Archie Cobbs wrote: > > FYI- > this discussion is going on in two groups: hackers and bugs. > In the interest of not leaving anyone out, I'm sending this only > to hackers and cc'ing as appropriate... > > Kazutaka YOKOTA writes: > > >> After keyboard locks up, pressing locking keys (num-lock, caps-lock, > > >> scroll-lock) changes LED state? > > > > > >Not sure... I'm at work right now... but ctl-alt-del works. > > > > In that case, I suspect that the system and the console driver is > > alive. But syscons is somehow made to believe that the screen > > switching is still in progress. > > > > Would you tell me how the X server is started in which VT? And can > > you exactly recall the sequence of events which led to lock-up? > > Was the X server reset, by xdm or by SIGHUP, while in the background > > by any chance? > > Here is how I get this to happen. It's definitely timing related. > The fact that I always do the same thing after the machine boots > means I've gotten fast enough to trigger the bug almost every time... :-) > Actually, you don't have to be that fast, but being real slow about > everything does seem to avoid the problem. > > [ For simplicity, in the following the VT's start numbering at 1 > so they correspond with the function keys.. ] > > 0. Boot FreeBSD > 1. I have VT1 - VT6 with getty login screens, so X appears on VT7 > 2. CTL-ALT-F5 and login as "archie" on VT5. Start X running. > 3. Screen flashes VT1 briefly, then video resets and displays X screen > 4. CTL-ALT-F4 to get to VT4 and login as "root" > 5. Run command "xwin", which is an alias that pops two root > windows up on the X console. what's wrong with just running 'startx' to start X AND start some xterms? integrates steps 2,3,4 & 5 > 6. CTL-ALT-F7 to get VT7 back to X, ready to happily get to work. that should be not I assume this is a typo? > 7. Keyboard hangs, screen does NOT switch away from VT4, keyboard > leds DO still work, but CTL-ALT-F[1-7] just beeps at me. > I'm pretty sure machine responds to pings as well. > 8. CTL-ALT-DEL to reboot > 9. Rinse & repeat > > More info... > > vga0 rev 1 int a irq 10 on pci0:12 > sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard > sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > > XFree86 Version 3.3.1 / X Window System > (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6300) > Release Date: August 4 1997 > If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer > than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting > problems. (see http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ) > Operating System: FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE i386 > Configured drivers: > S3V: accelerated server for S3 graphics adaptors (Patchlevel 0) > s3_ViRGE > Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) > (using VT number 7) > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 00:41:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12320 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:41:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12314 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:41:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00527; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:41:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712020841.AAA00527@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: dg@root.com cc: Charles Mott , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 00:34:30 PST." <199712020834.AAA15970@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 00:41:33 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyway, I don't mean to squelch the conversation regarding this, but > I do ask that people not make silly assumptions without first actually > studying the problem. Thats okay you can keep your ftpd server 8) And yes I have worked in the past on commercial servers. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 01:05:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA13607 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dns (dns.ida.net [204.228.203.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA13599 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:05:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (tc-if2-10.ida.net [208.141.171.67]) by dns (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id CAA13733 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:00:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:05:39 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199712020834.AAA15970@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Amancio Hasty Jr wrote: > >You can do it as you have suggested also the thing to keep in mind is the > >cost of per connection and memory. For instance a process context switch > >plus the over head of a process is not a very efficient mechanism for > >large scale ftp servers. > > Oh? Are you speaking as an authority on this subject? :-) Actually, > context switch overhead is not a problem. Processes in FreeBSD are fairly > light weight in terms of memory as well and most of the memory is consumed > by socket and disk buffers, not by the overhead of a process (at least in > my implementation of ftpd). > Anyway, I don't mean to squelch the conversation regarding this, but > I do ask that people not make silly assumptions without first actually > studying the problem. > > -DG No aspersions were intended towards your ftpd, at least on my earlier posting to which you did not directly reply. I was just thinking aloud about Amancio's suggestion and none too precisely at that. I've just gone through an effort of monitoring and herding PIDs for a specialized type of server, and it was none too pleasant I can tell you. I was intrigued by your use of shmctl(), which seemed quite clever to me. Shared memory and advisory locking are a big nuisance to deal with when trying to make software cleanly compile across different platforms and kernel configurations. Threading eliminates the need for these things but also creates other headaches. For moderate numbers of open sockets (50 to 100), a synchronous state machine with non-blocking I/O doesn't sound that bad for some of my modest needs (far smaller than the Mt. Everest of wcarchive). >From your standpoint, would there be performance advantages to 50 processes each handling 50 connections vs. 2500 processes? Or as you say, are sockets and disk I/O the primary thing? Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 01:44:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA15962 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA15956 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:44:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16682; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:46:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712020946.BAA16682@implode.root.com> To: Charles Mott cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:05:39 MST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:46:34 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Anyway, I don't mean to squelch the conversation regarding this, but >> I do ask that people not make silly assumptions without first actually >> studying the problem. >> >> -DG > >No aspersions were intended towards your ftpd, at least on my earlier None taken. >Shared memory and advisory locking are a big nuisance to deal with when >trying to make software cleanly compile across different platforms and >kernel configurations. Threading eliminates the need for these things but >also creates other headaches. For moderate numbers of open sockets (50 to >100), a synchronous state machine with non-blocking I/O doesn't sound that >bad for some of my modest needs (far smaller than the Mt. Everest of >wcarchive). One of the reasons why I'm not releasing my hacked-up ftpd server is that it doesn't have any of the portability stuff of wu-ftpd (and never will). It is further highly FreeBSD-centric, even to the point of being built with it's own hacked up libc. Trying to support this in any general sense would be a nightmare...supporting FreeBSD is plenty enough to keep me awake at night. :-) >>From your standpoint, would there be performance advantages to 50 >processes each handling 50 connections vs. 2500 processes? Or as you say, >are sockets and disk I/O the primary thing? I think when the numbers of connections are on the order of 50-100, it doesn't make much difference which method you use. The traditional method of fork/exec for each ftpd is, however, rather expensive, so any server expected to do moderate to heavy work should at least run standalone - not from inetd. Other than that, I don't think a monolithic server (multi- threaded or a big state machine) vs. a one server process per connection is going to matter. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 01:48:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA16325 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:48:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA16318 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 17732 on Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:48:19 GMT; id JAA17732 efrom: marc@bowtie.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bowtie.nl (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19612; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:46:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712020946.KAA19612@bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: jkh's message of Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:36:16 -0800. <29598.881033776@time.cdrom.com> Reply-to: marc@bowtie.nl Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:46:48 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [snip] > Another option which hasn't really been explored is the idea of using > TurboVision's UI model and making an API compliant version that uses X > windows for all the various objects, e.g. you just write the > installation utility as a wrapper which loads the main body and the > turbovision library of choice dynamically based on $DISPLAY. But > someone would also have to be insane enough to do a version of TV for > X. :-) > Is it that much work? I thought they put all lowlevel stuff in one file (system.cc?). I have only briefly glanced at it though. Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 01:52:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA16643 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:52:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA16625 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:51:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00350; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:50:55 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712020950.KAA00350@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems In-Reply-To: <199712020742.XAA27819@bubba.whistle.com> from Archie Cobbs at "Dec 1, 97 11:42:05 pm" To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:50:50 +0100 (MET) Cc: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Archie Cobbs who wrote: > > Kazutaka YOKOTA writes: > > >> After keyboard locks up, pressing locking keys (num-lock, caps-lock, > > >> scroll-lock) changes LED state? > > > > > >Not sure... I'm at work right now... but ctl-alt-del works. Then the machine/syscons isn't dead, its hanging probably in the switch function, Try logging in from another machine/tty and see what a ps -l can tell about that... > 0. Boot FreeBSD > 1. I have VT1 - VT6 with getty login screens, so X appears on VT7 > 2. CTL-ALT-F5 and login as "archie" on VT5. Start X running. > 3. Screen flashes VT1 briefly, then video resets and displays X screen > 4. CTL-ALT-F4 to get to VT4 and login as "root" > 5. Run command "xwin", which is an alias that pops two root > windows up on the X console. > 6. CTL-ALT-F7 to get VT7 back to X, ready to happily get to work. > 7. Keyboard hangs, screen does NOT switch away from VT4, keyboard > leds DO still work, but CTL-ALT-F[1-7] just beeps at me. > I'm pretty sure machine responds to pings as well. > 8. CTL-ALT-DEL to reboot > 9. Rinse & repeat > > More info... > > vga0 rev 1 int a irq 10 on pci0:12 > sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard > sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > > XFree86 Version 3.3.1 / X Window System > (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6300) > Release Date: August 4 1997 > If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer > than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting > problems. (see http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ) > Operating System: FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE i386 > Configured drivers: > S3V: accelerated server for S3 graphics adaptors (Patchlevel 0) > s3_ViRGE > Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) > (using VT number 7) Hmm, I'm running with a S3 card too, current system though, and I cannot reproduce this. What machinery are you using ??, maybe I can find a semilar setup here to test it on.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 01:52:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA16787 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:52:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA16779 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:52:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00358; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:53:08 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712020953.KAA00358@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems In-Reply-To: <3483C827.695678E2@whistle.com> from Julian Elischer at "Dec 2, 97 00:34:47 am" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:53:08 +0100 (MET) Cc: archie@whistle.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Julian Elischer who wrote: > Archie Cobbs wrote: > > 6. CTL-ALT-F7 to get VT7 back to X, ready to happily get to work. > that should be not > > I assume this is a typo? It works fine though, I think we should get used to use CTRL+ALT to switch screens, that will free ALT for its real purpose... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 02:27:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA18874 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:27:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA18869 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:27:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA01667; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:27:31 -0800 (PST) To: marc@bowtie.nl cc: Alex , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:46:48 +0100." <199712020946.KAA19612@bowtie.nl> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:27:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1663.881058451@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is it that much work? I thought they put all lowlevel stuff in > one file (system.cc?). I have only briefly glanced at it though. Well, why not take a more thorough look and come back and let us know? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 03:11:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA21472 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA21460; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@FreeBSD.org) From: Julian Elischer Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) id DAA19741; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:10:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:10:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712021110.DAA19741@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: wrong SLICE/DEVFS file sent out Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk to those of you that complained that my descriptions didn'nt match what you were seeing.. you were right. I sent out the wrong version (old) the new version is at: ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/scsi/slice2.tar.gz it is 52931 bytes long From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 03:13:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA21702 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:13:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cinor.starnets.ro (cinor.starnets.ro [193.230.182.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA21692 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:13:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cinor_Marketing@cinor.starnets.ro) Received: from BOGDAN by cinor.starnets.ro with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id YC7Z64JY; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:12:45 +0200 From: "Musat Bogdan" To: Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:12:16 +0200 Message-ID: <01bcff13$25baec80$18b6e6c1@Cinor_Marketing.cinor.starnets.ro> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009A_01BCFF23.E943BC80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01BCFF23.E943BC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01BCFF23.E943BC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
------=_NextPart_000_009A_01BCFF23.E943BC80-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 06:08:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA02094 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:08:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA02087; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:08:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA16236; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:05:35 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712021305.OAA16236@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: command-line vat-like application To: multimedia@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:05:34 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, if someone is interested, the command-line vat-like application I was writing is mostly functional. It works with both my driver and guspnp (thanks to Amancio for the testing...) and supports a receive-only mode which can be used for half-duplex hardware. The code (alpha state) is available at http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/tel971202.tgz as usual i might release new versions in the next days so check also on my web page http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD.html for the most up-to-date version. As usual feedback and constructive criticism would be highly appreciated. I believe the code is relatively simple to follow so someone might even try to play with it, or even better port it to other architectures such as SUN, DEC, SGI, HP... all machine-dependant code should be in md_code.c -- although I have not looked carefully at portability, so some patching to tel.h might be necessary to compile on other systems. >From the README file: This is a very rough implementation of an audioconferencing program (really, closer to a telephone...) which interoperates with vat/rat. The goal was to build a very small application which requires little resources to run. The program can be used as a receive-only tool (e.g. to listen to multicast audio sessions), or as a simple audio multicaster, or finally as an easy to use internet telephone for machines which do not have X running. You can compile it using the makefile -- it requires libgsm to be installed. Works with both voxware/oss and my audio driver on FreeBSD. Porting to other systems should be trivial. Start the program as tel [options] [host/port] host/port can specify either unicast or multicast addresses. For a complete list of options run tel -h Commands are shown using the '?' command from within the application. Typically, operation resembles that of a telephone so you can dial a remote host, answer an incoming call (signalled by a ring), and hangup when you are done. In the middle of a conversation you can play a ulaw file to the remote node. When the transmitter is active there is a simple time counter showing the time from the start of the conversation. If the remote host is not receiving and ICMP messages arrive back, the program hangups automatically. KNOWN BUGS: * no sophisticated handling misordered or lost packets; * no support for multiple speakers. You can still listen to multicast sessions but behaviour with multiple senders is unpredictable; * only PCMU and GSM formats are currently supported. LPC code is in but not fully integrated yet. Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 06:31:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA03251 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:31:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA03236 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:31:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27496; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:31:22 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA17764; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:31:21 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:31:21 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712021431.PAA17764@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Joerg Wunsch CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: J Wunsch's message of Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:22:53 +0100 Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) References: <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> <19971201232253.06545@uriah.heep.sax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Jacques Vidrine] > > How does this work on a serial console? Is it currently possible to > > install FreeBSD with only a serial console anyway (I haven't tried)? [Jörg Wunsch] > Unfortunately not. I'd really like to see this feature in the next > generation installer. I haven't looked at TurboVision yet, but i hope > it has more of the potential that's required to do this. Why isn't it possible to run an install over a serial console? I'm running a similar application written using libdialog over a serial console all the time. I haven't tested with the install floppies, but can't see any important differences between the systems. I'm using a hacked 'tip' (allowing 8-bit characters but breaking a lot of other things) on a FreeBSD console in the other end. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 07:08:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA05709 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:08:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from intercore.com (num1sun.intercore.com [199.181.243.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05684 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:08:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robin@intercore.com) Received: (robin@localhost) by intercore.com (8.7.1/8.6.4) id KAA08664; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:04:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971202100414.43922@num1sun.intercore.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:04:14 -0500 From: Robin Cutshaw To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Drive Mirroring References: <199711290422.PAA23032@mother.sneaker.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199711290422.PAA23032@mother.sneaker.net.au>; from Andrew Kenneth Milton on Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 03:22:12PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 03:22:12PM +1100, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > > The last implementation I saw of software RAID on Solaris didn't > (about two years ago). > This all works well now (I assume you are talking about Online Disk Suite). robin -- ---- Robin Cutshaw internet: robin@interlabs.com robin@intercore.com Internet Labs, Inc. BellNet: 404-817-9787 robin@XFree86.Org "Time is just one damn thing after another" -- PBS/Nova ---- -- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 07:30:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA07583 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:30:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA07578 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA00319; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:30:19 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma000315; Tue, 2 Dec 97 09:30:11 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:30:10 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Thomas Gellekum cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthreads In-Reply-To: <87soscb3hf.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmm, missed it by _that_ much. I just finished a make world so I'll have a look-see again. Anyone know where to get POSIX thread specs? I'd like to get any problems with pthreads and/or Python identified, and I suppose it would help to know the expected behavior of pthreads. I used to do conformance testing of OSI protocols (heh), so I'm used to wading through dense standards documents looking for conformance issues. Thanks! Jacques Vidrine On 2 Dec 1997, Thomas Gellekum wrote: > Jacques Vidrine writes: > > > Python 1.5b1 doesn't work on -current dated 11/21. :-( > > Too old. The thread patches went in last week, aroung 11/25. > > tg > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 07:33:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA07911 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA07898 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:33:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28376; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:32:16 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA17941; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:32:10 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:32:10 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712021532.QAA17941@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: marc@bowtie.nl, garbanzo@hooked.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:27:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) References: <199712020946.KAA19612@bowtie.nl> <1663.881058451@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Is it that much work? I thought they put all lowlevel stuff in > > one file (system.cc?). I have only briefly glanced at it though. > > Well, why not take a more thorough look and come back and let us know? :-) IIRC: It would be pretty hard unless you either get pragmatic and get something that look more-or-less like a CUI, or give TurboVision a work-over first. Very much of the TurboVision code expects you to pass coordinates as character positions; wouldn't be too nice for a truly graphical interface. BTW: I think Borlands OWL (Object Windows Library) is based on the same hierarchy as TurboVision. I might be wrong, though. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 07:48:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA09178 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:48:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA09159 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:48:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA00344; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:48:19 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma000341; Tue, 2 Dec 97 09:47:58 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:47:58 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Eivind Eklund cc: Joerg Wunsch , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <199712021431.PAA17764@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id HAA09164 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Presumably sysintall will work fine over a serial console ... there may be some assumptions on the install floppy as it exists today, though. Of course this is all hearsay, I haven't tried it. So maybe I ought shut up :-) Just curious, Jacques Vidrine On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > [Jacques Vidrine] > > > How does this work on a serial console? Is it currently possible to > > > install FreeBSD with only a serial console anyway (I haven't tried)? > > > [Jörg Wunsch] > > Unfortunately not. I'd really like to see this feature in the next > > generation installer. I haven't looked at TurboVision yet, but i hope > > it has more of the potential that's required to do this. > > Why isn't it possible to run an install over a serial console? I'm > running a similar application written using libdialog over a serial > console all the time. I haven't tested with the install floppies, but > can't see any important differences between the systems. > > I'm using a hacked 'tip' (allowing 8-bit characters but breaking a lot > of other things) on a FreeBSD console in the other end. > > Eivind. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 08:12:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10944 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:12:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10926 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:12:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29346; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:11:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA15373; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:11:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:11:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199712021611.JAA15373@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Julian Elischer Cc: Archie Cobbs , Kazutaka YOKOTA , jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems In-Reply-To: <3483C827.695678E2@whistle.com> References: <199712020742.XAA27819@bubba.whistle.com> <3483C827.695678E2@whistle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [ For simplicity, in the following the VT's start numbering at 1 > > so they correspond with the function keys.. ] > > > > 0. Boot FreeBSD > > 1. I have VT1 - VT6 with getty login screens, so X appears on VT7 > > 2. CTL-ALT-F5 and login as "archie" on VT5. Start X running. > > 3. Screen flashes VT1 briefly, then video resets and displays X screen > > 4. CTL-ALT-F4 to get to VT4 and login as "root" > > 5. Run command "xwin", which is an alias that pops two root > > windows up on the X console. > > what's wrong with just running 'startx' to start X AND start some > xterms? integrates steps 2,3,4 & 5 Because it doesn't show off the bug. :) > > > 6. CTL-ALT-F7 to get VT7 back to X, ready to happily get to work. > that should be not > > I assume this is a typo? No, this is also correct. You can type both to switch ttys, but is required to switch away from X. It's not required for non-X VTY's. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 08:30:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12288 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:30:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12283 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:30:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA12823; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:30:21 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma012819; Tue, 2 Dec 97 10:30:08 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:30:04 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Thomas Gellekum cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pthreads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On -current dated 12/2, Python 1.5b1 compiled with pthreads still fails the threading regression test. I'll examine as close as possible during this week to try to find the problem. Jacques Vidrine > On 2 Dec 1997, Thomas Gellekum wrote: > > > Jacques Vidrine writes: > > > > > Python 1.5b1 doesn't work on -current dated 11/21. :-( > > > > Too old. The thread patches went in last week, aroung 11/25. > > > > tg > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 10:10:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19868 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:10:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19850; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.interworks.org) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id MAA10260; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:13:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712021813.MAA10260@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:13:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Fix for slow reacting ATAPI CD-ROM Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please forgive the cross-post, wasn't sure where this belongs. I have a new ChemUSA Chembook and everything works fine except for the CD-ROM drive, which times out waiting for the command phase in atapi_wait_cmd(). I was able to get it to work by increasing the wait count to 3000. /* Wait for DRQ from 50 usec to 3 msec for slow devices */ int cnt = ata->intrcmd ? 10000 : ata->slow ? 3000 : 50; int ireason = 0, phase = 0; + cnt = 3000; + /* Wait for command phase. */ for (; cnt>0; cnt-=10) { ireason = inb (ata->port + AR_IREASON); Obviously, this drive isn't detected as a slow device (I can post the boot messages later if needed). What I wanted to do was to add a config flag for setting this, but it doesn't look like that is sent down to the atapi driver. Question: Can we change atapi_attach() to accept a 4th argument and use this to pass config flags from wdattach() in wd.c? Is there another method I should be using to handle atapi device quirks? Thanks, Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 11:06:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23528 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:06:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23519 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:06:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA04842; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:06:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma004838; Tue Dec 2 11:06:00 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA29599; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:06:00 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712021906.LAA29599@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems In-Reply-To: <3483C827.695678E2@whistle.com> from Julian Elischer at "Dec 2, 97 00:34:47 am" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:06:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > Archie Cobbs wrote: > > > > 0. Boot FreeBSD > > 1. I have VT1 - VT6 with getty login screens, so X appears on VT7 > > 2. CTL-ALT-F5 and login as "archie" on VT5. Start X running. > > 3. Screen flashes VT1 briefly, then video resets and displays X screen > > 4. CTL-ALT-F4 to get to VT4 and login as "root" > > 5. Run command "xwin", which is an alias that pops two root > > windows up on the X console. > > what's wrong with just running 'startx' to start X AND start some > xterms? > integrates steps 2,3,4 & 5 Nothing. I already have a workaround; that's not the point. We're trying to identify a bug. > > 6. CTL-ALT-F7 to get VT7 back to X, ready to happily get to work. > that should be not > > I assume this is a typo? No typo.. CTL-ALT-F7 is what I use (and it works). It's too hard to think about in real time whether or not to add the CTL part, so I just always add it (IMHO it should be CTL-ALT anyway for consistency). -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 11:57:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28042 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:57:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28006; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:57:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01466; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:58:19 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712021958.UAA01466@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Fix for slow reacting ATAPI CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <199712021813.MAA10260@iworks.InterWorks.org> from "Daniel M. Eischen" at "Dec 2, 97 12:13:54 pm" To: deischen@iworks.interworks.org (Daniel M. Eischen) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:58:19 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Daniel M. Eischen who wrote: > > Please forgive the cross-post, wasn't sure where this belongs. > > I have a new ChemUSA Chembook and everything works fine > except for the CD-ROM drive, which times out waiting > for the command phase in atapi_wait_cmd(). I was able > to get it to work by increasing the wait count to 3000. > > /* Wait for DRQ from 50 usec to 3 msec for slow devices */ > int cnt = ata->intrcmd ? 10000 : ata->slow ? 3000 : 50; > int ireason = 0, phase = 0; > > + cnt = 3000; > + > /* Wait for command phase. */ > for (; cnt>0; cnt-=10) { > ireason = inb (ata->port + AR_IREASON); > > Obviously, this drive isn't detected as a slow device (I > can post the boot messages later if needed). What I wanted > to do was to add a config flag for setting this, but it doesn't > look like that is sent down to the atapi driver. > > Question: Can we change atapi_attach() to accept a 4th argument > and use this to pass config flags from wdattach() in > wd.c? Is there another method I should be using to > handle atapi device quirks? Hmm, I think that atapi_attach should be educated on how to treat this device, test for model make etc, and then set the slow bit... This is the place to do quirks for atapi CDROM device. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 12:37:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01289 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01269; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:36:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA05734; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma005730; Tue Dec 2 12:35:58 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA02228; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:35:58 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712022035.MAA02228@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Skip 1.0 for FreeBSD 2.5.5 In-Reply-To: from Jim Flowers at "Dec 2, 97 02:17:15 am" To: jflowers@ezo.net (Jim Flowers) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:35:57 -0800 (PST) Cc: skip-info@skip.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-test@freebsd.org, winter@jurai.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Flowers writes: > Patches for Skip Source Release 1.0 that compile cleanly on FreeBSD 2.5.5 > are available from http://www.vip-link.com/pub/vip/skip/. Initial tests > indicate all functions work including skiptool with X-windows (except for > pop-up display of statistics). Please feel free to download and use. Email > any comments or bug reports to my attention. FYI- [Jim and I are in contact already regarding this] I'm working on a FreeBSD port of skip-1.0. This is somewhat involved because it requires modload'ing the kernel module, installing an rc script, etc. Hopefully will be done soon. Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 12:52:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02501 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:52:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (root@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02441; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:52:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.interworks.org) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id OAA10631; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:24:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712022024.OAA10631@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:24:31 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: sos@FreeBSD.dk Subject: Re: Fix for slow reacting ATAPI CD-ROM Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sxren Schmidt wrote: > > Obviously, this drive isn't detected as a slow device (I > > can post the boot messages later if needed). What I wanted > > to do was to add a config flag for setting this, but it doesn't > > look like that is sent down to the atapi driver. > > > > > > Question: Can we change atapi_attach() to accept a 4th argument > > and use this to pass config flags from wdattach() in > > wd.c? Is there another method I should be using to > > handle atapi device quirks? > > Hmm, I think that atapi_attach should be educated on how to treat > this device, test for model make etc, and then set the slow bit... > This is the place to do quirks for atapi CDROM device. I like being able to explicitly set it to aid in new installations. It kinda sucks not being able to install from CD-ROM. Or perhaps this wait count should be set higher in FAILSAFE mode? Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 13:33:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05727 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:33:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05722 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA06249; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:32:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006245; Tue Dec 2 13:32:11 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA03356; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:32:11 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712022132.NAA03356@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems In-Reply-To: <199712020950.KAA00350@sos.freebsd.dk> from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= at "Dec 2, 97 10:50:50 am" To: sos@FreeBSD.dk Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:32:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by bubba.whistle.com id NAA03356 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA05723 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Søren Schmidt writes: > Hmm, I'm running with a S3 card too, current system though, and I cannot > reproduce this. > What machinery are you using ??, maybe I can find a semilar setup here > to test it on.... ASUS TXP4-X, AMD K6, Generic keyboard, Logitech serial mouse Diamond 2000 3D Pro (S3 Virge) But this also used to happen with my Tseng W32p card of old and an ASUS SP3-G m/b with Intel 486/DX266. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 14:47:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11683 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:47:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11673 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:47:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA24659 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:47:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA15209; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:39:04 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971202233904.18126@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:39:04 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199712021431.PAA17764@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Jacques Vidrine on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 09:47:58AM -0600 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jacques Vidrine wrote: > Presumably sysintall will work fine over a serial console ... You'll have a hard time switching over to the second or fourth screen... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 14:48:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11734 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:48:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11718 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:48:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA24673 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:48:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA15242; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:43:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971202234331.13864@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:43:31 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <19971201020226.10663@vmunix.com> <19971201232253.06545@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199712021431.PAA17764@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712021431.PAA17764@bitbox.follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 03:31:21PM +0100 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Eivind Eklund wrote: > Why isn't it possible to run an install over a serial console? Because sysinstall extensively relies on syscons features (like console switching). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 15:03:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13180 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from global.com (global.com [206.40.50.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13157; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gopu@global.com) Message-ID: <3484929A.F3ECC50F@global.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 14:58:35 -0800 From: Gopakumar H Pillai Organization: Global Automation Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Passwd file updation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How should I go about updating the passwd file through a program in the safest way? I mean, when I do vipw it creates a file /tmp/pwd.xxxxx where xxxxx is the pid of the process. What all such steps should be taken to update the passwd file and eventually the passwd database. -- --Gopu (gopu@global.com) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 16:00:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA17440 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:00:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17435 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:00:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA04838; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:00:05 -0800 (PST) To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:43:31 +0100." <19971202234331.13864@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 16:00:05 -0800 Message-ID: <4835.881107205@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Why isn't it possible to run an install over a serial console? > > Because sysinstall extensively relies on syscons features (like > console switching). Really? It shouldn't, at least not in the non-VTY case. It does go to some trouble to try and figure out which it's running on - you don't think it tries to switch consoles when you run it in an xterm for example, do you? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 16:45:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20438 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:45:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20428 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:45:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id BAA26677 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:45:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id BAA00723; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:34:19 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971203013418.28489@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:34:18 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <19971202234331.13864@uriah.heep.sax.de> <4835.881107205@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <4835.881107205@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 04:00:05PM -0800 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Because sysinstall extensively relies on syscons features (like > > console switching). > > Really? It shouldn't, at least not in the non-VTY case. Last time i tried, i think the installer even came up on the graphics console, despite of being booted off a serial console. > ... - you > don't think it tries to switch consoles when you run it in an xterm > for example, do you? :-) Certainly not, but you know as well as me that there are a lot of ``if (running_as_init)'' decisions inside the code... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 17:59:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25600 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:59:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25580 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:59:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA17302; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:00:01 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma017290; Tue, 2 Dec 97 19:59:32 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:59:32 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-Reply-To: <19971202233904.18126@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Doh!! :-) That was one of the things I meant when I mentioned "assumptions". I can run post-installation sysinstall on any term without problems. Jacques Vidrine On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > > Presumably sysintall will work fine over a serial console ... > > You'll have a hard time switching over to the second or fourth > screen... > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 18:09:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA26510 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:09:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26504 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:09:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00453 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:09:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:09:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: boot.config, boot.help, kernel.config Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know if it too much to ask, but I do like having the boot messages etc configurable, unfortunately I am quite annoyed by the additional root directory clutter. Is there some way this could be moved to /etc or a /boot directory or something like that? Just my II cents. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 18:33:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA28257 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA28247 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:33:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id CAA04727; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:11:11 GMT Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:11:11 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Jacques Vidrine cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthreads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm sure about where to get the specs, but news:comp.programming.threads is a good source of info. You might also try... Programming with POSIX Threads, by David R. Butenhof ISBN: 0201633922 Written by a DEC guy who was on the POSIX Threads committee. Programming with Threads, by Steve Kleiman. Written by SUN guys and includes advice on when to use AIO vs. threads. Regards, Mike On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > Hmm, missed it by _that_ much. I just finished a make world so I'll have > a look-see again. > > Anyone know where to get POSIX thread specs? I'd like to get any problems > with pthreads and/or Python identified, and I suppose it would help to > know the expected behavior of pthreads. I used to do conformance testing > of OSI protocols (heh), so I'm used to wading through dense standards > documents looking for conformance issues. > > Thanks! > > Jacques Vidrine > > On 2 Dec 1997, Thomas Gellekum wrote: > > > Jacques Vidrine writes: > > > > > Python 1.5b1 doesn't work on -current dated 11/21. :-( > > > > Too old. The thread patches went in last week, aroung 11/25. > > > > tg > > > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 19:28:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA01679 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:28:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01657 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:28:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@cdsnet.net) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA09819 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:28:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:28:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: panic, kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a server running a moderately current 2.2.5 (about 3000-4000 processes), that is dying with the above listed panic semi-regularly. The server has 512MB of RAM in it, and does lots of NFS traffic. (keeps a 100MB half-duplex ethernet running about 40% of capacity. I have maxusers set to 256 in config, but not sure what other parameters may need to be bumped, or more importantly, how they relate to maxusers. Any tip appreciated. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 19:45:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03093 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:45:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03082 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:45:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA05700; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:45:01 -0800 (PST) To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 01:34:18 +0100." <19971203013418.28489@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:45:01 -0800 Message-ID: <5697.881120701@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Last time i tried, i think the installer even came up on the graphics > console, despite of being booted off a serial console. Hmmm. And you used all the appropriate -h flags and such? The thing of it is, I think Paul Traina has successfully installed off of a serial console since he complained about some bogus screen update problems which only showed up on a slow display. ;) > > ... - you > > don't think it tries to switch consoles when you run it in an xterm > > for example, do you? :-) > > Certainly not, but you know as well as me that there are a lot of > ``if (running_as_init)'' decisions inside the code... Actually, the RunningAsInit boolean is for triggering a different class of behavior. It's the OnVTY variable which is looked at when such things are relevant for I/O purposes. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 20:00:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04200 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:00:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04190 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05314; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:03:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712030403.UAA05314@implode.root.com> To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: panic, kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:28:41 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:03:58 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I have a server running a moderately current 2.2.5 (about 3000-4000 >processes), that is dying with the above listed panic semi-regularly. > >The server has 512MB of RAM in it, and does lots of NFS traffic. (keeps a >100MB half-duplex ethernet running about 40% of capacity. > >I have maxusers set to 256 in config, but not sure what other parameters >may need to be bumped, or more importantly, how they relate to maxusers. > >Any tip appreciated. In the file /sys/i386/include/vmparam.h, change the parameter VM_KMEM_SIZE to 64MB. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 20:05:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04795 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:05:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04764; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:05:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.interworks.org) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id WAA11699; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:08:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712030408.WAA11699@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:08:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: sos@FreeBSD.dk Subject: Re: Fix for slow reacting ATAPI CD-ROM Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To follow up on my original posting: > > I have a new ChemUSA Chembook and everything works fine > > except for the CD-ROM drive, which times out waiting > > for the command phase in atapi_wait_cmd(). I was able > > to get it to work by increasing the wait count to 3000. > > > > /* Wait for DRQ from 50 usec to 3 msec for slow devices */ > > int cnt = ata->intrcmd ? 10000 : ata->slow ? 3000 : 50; > > int ireason = 0, phase = 0; > > > > + cnt = 3000; > > + > > /* Wait for command phase. */ > > for (; cnt>0; cnt-=10) { > > ireason = inb (ata->port + AR_IREASON); > > > > Obviously, this drive isn't detected as a slow device (I > > can post the boot messages later if needed). What I wanted > > to do was to add a config flag for setting this, but it doesn't > > look like that is sent down to the atapi driver. > > > > Question: Can we change atapi_attach() to accept a 4th argument > > and use this to pass config flags from wdattach() in > > wd.c? Is there another method I should be using to > > handle atapi device quirks? > > Hmm, I think that atapi_attach should be educated on how to treat > this device, test for model make etc, and then set the slow bit... > This is the place to do quirks for atapi CDROM device. > I was able to lower the wait time to 75 usec for my CD-ROM drive, but anything <= 70 usecs would not work. According to the comments in atapi.h: #define AT_DRQT_MPROC 0 /* microprocessor DRQ - 3 msec delay */ #define AT_DRQT_INTR 1 /* interrupt DRQ - 10 msec delay */ #define AT_DRQT_ACCEL 2 /* accelerated DRQ - 50 usec delay */ my CD-ROM drive should have a 50usec delay. The code in atapi.c uses these numbers without any tolerance. I assume these numbers come from some sort of ATAPI spec, but shouldn't we allow some tolerance? Increasing these waits will not affect drives that conform to the times, so I don't see why they can't be larger. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 20:11:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA05289 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:11:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA05280 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:11:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA22890 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:11:35 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma022886; Tue, 2 Dec 97 22:11:08 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:11:07 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: emacs core dumping on -current? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, emacs-19.34 has started dumping core on me since I cvsup'd and make'd on 12/2. Recompiling emacs didn't help. The backtrace looks like the below. Has anyone else seen this? $ gdb emacs GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc... (gdb) core emacs.core Core was generated by `emacs'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. Reading symbols from /usr/libexec/ld.so...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXaw.so.6.1...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6.1...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6.3...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6.3...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libutil.so.2.2...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.3.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libm.so.2.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0...done. #0 0xc40d4 in _malloc_internal (size=4096) at gmalloc.c:717 717 while (_heapinfo[block].free.size < blocks) (gdb) bt #0 0xc40d4 in _malloc_internal (size=4096) at gmalloc.c:717 #1 0xc4651 in malloc (size=4096) at gmalloc.c:810 #2 0xc3ef6 in _malloc_internal (size=0) at gmalloc.c:679 #3 0xc4651 in malloc (size=4) at gmalloc.c:810 #4 0x85c21 in emacs_blocked_malloc (size=4) at alloc.c:365 #5 0xc4651 in malloc (size=4) at gmalloc.c:810 #6 0x85a0b in xmalloc (size=4) at alloc.c:261 #7 0x3f6ba in sort_args (argc=1, argv=0xefbfdbd0) at emacs.c:1087 #8 0x3ebe1 in main (argc=1, argv=0xefbfdbd0, envp=0xefbfdbd8) at emacs.c:437 (gdb) Jacques Vidrine From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 21:20:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA09452 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09447 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:20:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA06012; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:19:47 -0800 (PST) To: shivers@ai.mit.edu cc: ajones@ctron.com, jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:13:51 EST." <199712030213.VAA04670@mongkok.pc.cs.cmu.edu> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:19:47 -0800 Message-ID: <6008.881126387@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, a number of people have asked about this since you went away (grin) and I believe interest is still as high today as it was a year ago. Anyone else here interested in joining the effort of porting AFS to FreeBSD? Jordan > Well, it's almost a year later. I dropped the ball. Still interested? > -Olin > > cc: ajones@ctron.com, jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:24:53 -0800 > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > Hi Olin, > > I know it's been awhile since we last talked about this, but my > biggest concern has been, up to now, in finding the right people to > work on AFS ("right" == "actually likely to do it and not just waste > your and everyone else's time") and so I've just been biding my time > until said people appeared. I believe I have at long last found those > people: Alexander Seth Jones and James Robinson, who are also cc'd on > this message, have stepped forward and indicated their genuine desire > to do this work, and if you've got the political will to try and > somehow finesse the AFS licensing issues through CMU, these guys are > willing to do the port. > > So, what's the next step? > > Thanks! > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 21:29:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA10130 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA10108 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:29:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11519; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:27:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:27:21 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Archie Cobbs cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems In-Reply-To: <199712022132.NAA03356@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a 3D3000 now running under 2.2.5-STABLE on a tyan titan pro. About 4 months ago when I built the machine I noticed a few oddities involving xdm and the S3V server - maybe the xdm screen not coming up clearly after ending an X session? Using XFree86 Version 3.3.1 I found that the new s3_virge support in the SVGA server worked really well for me and the problems went away. I wish I could remember more clearly what the thrash was all about but I did get relief by switching to the SVGA server. Sorry I can't be more specific but you might give that a try. -Chris On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Archie Cobbs wrote: > > Søren Schmidt writes: > > Hmm, I'm running with a S3 card too, current system though, and I cannot > > reproduce this. > > What machinery are you using ??, maybe I can find a semilar setup here > > to test it on.... > > ASUS TXP4-X, AMD K6, Generic keyboard, Logitech serial mouse > Diamond 2000 3D Pro (S3 Virge) > > But this also used to happen with my Tseng W32p card of old > and an ASUS SP3-G m/b with Intel 486/DX266. > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 21:51:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11764 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:51:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11755 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id AAA04380; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:51:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712030551.AAA04380@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-Reply-To: <6008.881126387@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 2, 97 09:19:47 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:51:18 -0500 (EST) Cc: shivers@ai.mit.edu, ajones@ctron.com, jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard said: > Yes, a number of people have asked about this since you went away > (grin) and I believe interest is still as high today as it was a year > ago. Anyone else here interested in joining the effort of porting AFS > to FreeBSD? > I can help a little (since I really do know how to write filesystems for FreeBSD.) However, I do not have an AFS license. I speculate that there will be some tricks required. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 2 23:39:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA17879 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17861; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:39:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01569; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:39:56 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712030739.IAA01569@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Fix for slow reacting ATAPI CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <199712030408.WAA11699@iworks.InterWorks.org> from "Daniel M. Eischen" at "Dec 2, 97 10:08:48 pm" To: deischen@iworks.interworks.org (Daniel M. Eischen) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:39:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Daniel M. Eischen who wrote: > > I was able to lower the wait time to 75 usec for my CD-ROM drive, > but anything <= 70 usecs would not work. > > According to the comments in atapi.h: > > #define AT_DRQT_MPROC 0 /* microprocessor DRQ - 3 msec delay */ > #define AT_DRQT_INTR 1 /* interrupt DRQ - 10 msec delay */ > #define AT_DRQT_ACCEL 2 /* accelerated DRQ - 50 usec delay */ > > my CD-ROM drive should have a 50usec delay. The code in atapi.c > uses these numbers without any tolerance. I assume these numbers > come from some sort of ATAPI spec, but shouldn't we allow some > tolerance? Increasing these waits will not affect drives that > conform to the times, so I don't see why they can't be larger. Hmm, I *think* the above values are directly from the spec, but havn't checked. I'll go check when I get home, and changing it to 100usec really shouldn't be a problem, and should provide you with a safe margin... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 00:48:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21898 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:48:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21839 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:48:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199712030848.AAA21839@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA117398877; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:47:57 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Using devfs in 2.2.1 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:47:57 +1100 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmmm, I've been playing with devfs and LKM's in 2.2.1... First, devfs isn't dynamic (yet) ? If I load an LKM after devfs has been mounted and it loads things into devfs, they don't show up in the mounted directory. If I load the LKM and then mount devfs, voila, they're there. I assume there is/will-be a rigth and wrong way to do this, but if I umount /devfs and then try to modunload, I get a panic in devfs_remove_dev(). Am I doing anything bad here ? Will 2.2.5 fix this ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 01:57:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25286 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:57:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from argus.tfs.net (node27.tfs.net [207.2.220.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25281 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id DAA27323; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:35:23 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712030935.DAA27323@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: from Jacques Vidrine at "Dec 2, 97 10:11:07 pm" To: nectar@NECTAR.COM (Jacques Vidrine) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:35:22 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > Hi, emacs-19.34 has started dumping core on me since I cvsup'd and make'd > on 12/2. > > Recompiling emacs didn't help. > > The backtrace looks like the below. Has anyone else seen this? > yeah, really ticking me off too... pico is no substitute for a real editor. another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... interesting note... make install in /usr/src/etc does not install anything, thus i'm having to upgrade /etc by hand. big question: has the problem causing the emacs dump been fixed? So far as i can tell, emacs is the only thing it happens to. i was going through the -current release notes, and it mentions that vfork is fixed, could this be causing it, i know emacs makes extensive use of vfork... just guessing obviously.. i'm still getting my bearings. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 02:12:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA26229 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:12:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA26220 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:12:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA14412; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA21523; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA14035; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:12:14 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199712031012.CAA14035@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:12:14 -0800 In-Reply-To: Don Lewis "fixes for "LAND" and various other TCP bugs" (Dec 2, 12:17am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Don Lewis , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fixes for "LAND" and various other TCP bugs Cc: fenner@PARC.XEROX.COM, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, jas@flyingfox.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One minor correction below: On Dec 2, 12:17am, Don Lewis wrote: } Subject: fixes for "LAND" and various other TCP bugs } @@ -1660,9 +1722,26 @@ } /* } * Generate an ACK dropping incoming segment if it occupies } * sequence space, where the ACK reflects our state. } + * } + * We can now skip the test for the RST flag since all } + * paths to this code happen after packets containing } + * RST have been dropped. } + * } + * In the SYN-RECEIVED state, don't send an ACK unless the } + * segment we received passes the SYN-RECEIVED ACK test. } + * If it fails send a RST. This breaks the loop in the } + * "LAND" DoS attack, and also prevents an ACK storm } + * between two listening ports that have been sent forged } + * SYN segments, each with the source address of the other. } */ } - if (tiflags & TH_RST) } - goto drop; } + if (tp->t_state == TCPS_SYN_RECEIVED) { } + if ((tiflags & TH_ACK) == 0) } + goto drop; I think this should fall through and let the ACK be set if the ACK bit is off on incoming packet. We could be getting data outside our receive window that is accompanying the initial SYN, so we should resend our SYN-ACK. This will still break the ACK loop. } + else if (SEQ_GT(tp->snd_una, ti->ti_ack) || } + SEQ_GT(ti->ti_ack, tp->snd_max)) } + goto dropwithreset; } + /* else fall through */ } + } } #ifdef TCPDEBUG } if (so->so_options & SO_DEBUG) } tcp_trace(TA_DROP, ostate, tp, &tcp_saveti, 0); --- Truck From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 02:19:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA26858 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:19:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA26742 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thomas@ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA22771; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:17:33 +0100 (CET) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA07977; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:17:32 +0100 (CET) To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Cc: nectar@NECTAR.COM (Jacques Vidrine), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: CVS tags (was: Re: emacs core dumping on -current?) References: <199712030935.DAA27323@unix.tfs.net> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 03 Dec 1997 11:17:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jim Bryant's message of Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:35:22 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <87btyyyblv.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Bryant writes: > another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i > was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... There's no such tag as RELENG_2_2_5. Use RELENG_2_2 for 2.2.5-stable (post-2.2.5) and RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE for the 2.2.5-RELEASE bits. > interesting note... make install in /usr/src/etc does not install anything, > thus i'm having to upgrade /etc by hand. This is a feature. tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 02:22:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27199 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:22:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA27194 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA01000; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:21:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971203022152.53775@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:21:52 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Cc: Jacques Vidrine , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? References: <199712030935.DAA27323@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199712030935.DAA27323@unix.tfs.net>; from Jim Bryant on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 03:35:22AM -0600 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Bryant scribbled this message on Dec 3: > In reply: > > Hi, emacs-19.34 has started dumping core on me since I cvsup'd and make'd > > on 12/2. > > > > Recompiling emacs didn't help. > > > > The backtrace looks like the below. Has anyone else seen this? > > yeah, really ticking me off too... pico is no substitute for a real editor. just use nvi... now THAT'S a real editor... (no more on thread, it's just another flame fest, but this is a VERY good reason to learn vi :) ) > another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i > was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... because RELENG_2_2_5 doesn't exist... try RELENG_2_2, that should do the trick for you... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 02:58:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA29259 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:58:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-35.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA29254 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:58:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id CAA06080; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:58:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:58:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712031058.CAA06080@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: tg@ihf.rwth-aachen.de CC: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, nectar@NECTAR.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <87btyyyblv.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> (message from Thomas Gellekum on 03 Dec 1997 11:17:31 +0100) Subject: Re: CVS tags (was: Re: emacs core dumping on -current?) From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * > another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i * > was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... * * There's no such tag as RELENG_2_2_5. Use RELENG_2_2 for 2.2.5-stable * (post-2.2.5) and RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE for the 2.2.5-RELEASE bits. Seems like the (unnecessary IMO) uname change is causing the expected confusion.... Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 03:16:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00252 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:16:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00247 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:16:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA07456; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:16:36 -0800 (PST) To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net cc: nectar@NECTAR.COM (Jacques Vidrine), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 03:35:22 CST." <199712030935.DAA27323@unix.tfs.net> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 03:16:35 -0800 Message-ID: <7452.881147795@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i > was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... Ain't no such tag. You want RELENG_2_2 to follow the branch or RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE if you want a static snapshot of just the release. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 03:46:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA01661 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:46:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA01633 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:46:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@korin.warman.org.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20209; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:48:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:48:35 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: <7452.881147795@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i > > was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... > > Ain't no such tag. You want RELENG_2_2 to follow the branch or > RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE if you want a static snapshot of just the > release. Once again, such situation makes me wonder why there isn't posssible to somehow get ALL of the valid tags.... Perhaps it's possible, but noone seems to know how to do it. Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 03:50:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02161 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:50:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02156 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:50:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA09662 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd009658; Wed Dec 3 03:46:00 1997 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:43:39 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: a quick slice/devfs patch Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This patch will be needed to handle newer "dangerously dedicated" systems. Some of you have noticed that that didn't work right. The patch MIGHT not apply cleanly on what is out there but hey it's a 4 liner.. I'm sur eyou get the drift :) *** mbr.c.old Wed Dec 3 03:31:02 1997 --- mbr.c Wed Dec 3 03:28:50 1997 *************** *** 176,181 **** --- 176,185 ---- printf ("rejected.. bad flag\n"); return(EINVAL); /* must be either 0 or 0x80 */ } + if ((dp->dp_type) && (dp->dp_size) && (dp->dp_start == 0)) { + printf("rejected.. Slice includes MBR\n"); + return (EINVAL); + } if (dp->dp_flag == 0x80) numactive++; } ...... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 03:50:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02207 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:50:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02194 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA09597; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:41:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd009595; Wed Dec 3 03:41:26 1997 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:39:05 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Using devfs in 2.2.1 In-Reply-To: <199712030848.AAA21839@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk it was broken in 2.2.1 it had worked before that though. 2.2.5 will be better, but the code in 3.0 (which is basically the same but with fixes) is of course best. devfs, while originally slated for 2.2.x has been moved back to 3.x I have been working on it again and have made 2 releases in the last week. I'll be away tomorrow but send me amil if you have probelms and I'll get back to you when I return. julian On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > > Hmmm, I've been playing with devfs and LKM's in 2.2.1... > > First, devfs isn't dynamic (yet) ? If I load an LKM after devfs has > been mounted and it loads things into devfs, they don't show up in the > mounted directory. > > If I load the LKM and then mount devfs, voila, they're there. > > I assume there is/will-be a rigth and wrong way to do this, but if I > umount /devfs and then try to modunload, I get a panic in devfs_remove_dev(). > > Am I doing anything bad here ? Will 2.2.5 fix this ? > > Darren > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 03:57:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02729 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:57:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02720 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:57:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA07654; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:56:48 -0800 (PST) To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 12:48:35 +0100." Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 03:56:48 -0800 Message-ID: <7649.881150208@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Once again, such situation makes me wonder why there isn't posssible to > somehow get ALL of the valid tags.... Perhaps it's possible, but noone > seems to know how to do it. cd /usr/src cvs log Makefile It's been tagged by everything at one point or another. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 04:19:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03987 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:19:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (node27.tfs.net [207.2.220.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA03976 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:19:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA27539; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 06:19:35 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712031219.GAA27539@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: <7452.881147795@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 3, 97 03:16:35 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 06:19:34 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i > > was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... > > Ain't no such tag. You want RELENG_2_2 to follow the branch or > RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE if you want a static snapshot of just the > release. okay, this much has been established from the previous posts... any ideas other than uname that might be causing the core dumps of emacs? is this actively being looked at, or is it presently fixed? SO FAR AS I CAN TELL, emacs is the only thing effected by this. granted, emacs is one of the most fussy programs out there, and can spot problems in a multitude of things. i understand that there are other editors out there, and i did not intend to start another editor war [heading this off before it starts], but to me the statement "learn nvi" is unacceptable. i am comfortable with emacs. anyhow, i have asked about the 3.0 status several times now, and am willing to stick it out in the interest of moving ahead. one big question, how accurate is the "Design ... 4.4BSD" [1996, McKusick, et al.] book in regards to the 3.0 effort. i understand that the vm is completely different than described in the book. is there a master listing of differences? i guess, these questions actually should be on the -current list, i'll be subscribing to that one forthwith. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 04:27:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA04355 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:27:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA04349 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:27:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA07884; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:27:12 -0800 (PST) To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 06:19:34 CST." <199712031219.GAA27539@unix.tfs.net> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:27:12 -0800 Message-ID: <7880.881152032@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > any ideas other than uname that might be causing the core dumps of emacs? Not really - mine works fine! Are you sure your kernel and binaries (e.g all libraries also) are in sync? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 04:36:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA04892 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:36:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (node27.tfs.net [207.2.220.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA04883 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA27619; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 06:36:25 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712031236.GAA27619@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: <7880.881152032@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 3, 97 04:27:12 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 06:36:25 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > any ideas other than uname that might be causing the core dumps of emacs? > > Not really - mine works fine! Are you sure your kernel and > binaries (e.g all libraries also) are in sync? pretty sure... i can do another make install in /usr/src just to be sure... since i'm not the only one having the problem, makes me think this is not the problem. the only thing config complained about was that "pseudo-device log" was invalid. i commented it, and have had no problems from syslogd. otherwise i'm using the same config i used with 2.2-stable. Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 jbryant@argus:/usr/src/sys/compile/ARGUS-2.2-STABLE.config CPU: Pentium (132.74-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52b Stepping=11 Features=0x1bf real memory = 25165824 (24576K bytes) avail memory = 21872640 (21360K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.6.0 vga0: rev 0x4c int a irq 255 on pci0.10.0 ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.11.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 ahc0: target 0 Tagged Queuing Device sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0: Direct-Access 2047MB (4194058 512 byte sectors) sd0: with 3511 cyls, 11 heads, and an average 108 sectors/track ide_pci0: rev 0x02 int a irq 14 on pci0.13.0 Probing for PnP devices: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A sio2 at 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 12 on isa sio2: type 16550A pcm0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , multi-block-16 wd0: 1032MB (2113776 sectors), 2097 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): , multi-block-16 wd1: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2100 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordy atapi1.0: unknown phase npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface joy0 not found at 0x201 ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers pid 375 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 377 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 379 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 381 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 383 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 385 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 390 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 392 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 394 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 396 (emacs), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 887 (emacs), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 8468 (emacs), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 26144 (emacs), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) pid 26154 (emacs), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 05:09:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA06780 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:09:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA06771 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:09:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA27173; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:10:17 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma027167; Wed, 3 Dec 97 07:09:56 -0600 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:09:51 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: <7880.881152032@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ya, "make buildworld" followed by "make installworld". Then config'd, compiled, and installed a new kernel. I'm doing another cvsup and will rebuild again while I'm at work to see if there is any change before I go poking around. Jacques Vidrine On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > any ideas other than uname that might be causing the core dumps of emacs? > > Not really - mine works fine! Are you sure your kernel and > binaries (e.g all libraries also) are in sync? > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 05:25:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07679 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:25:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (pm3-p31.tfs.net [206.154.183.223]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA07664 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:25:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA09824; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:25:36 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712031325.HAA09824@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: from Jacques Vidrine at "Dec 3, 97 07:09:51 am" To: nectar@NECTAR.COM (Jacques Vidrine) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:25:35 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > Ya, "make buildworld" followed by "make installworld". Then config'd, > compiled, and installed a new kernel. I'm doing another cvsup and will > rebuild again while I'm at work to see if there is any change before I go > poking around. > > Jacques Vidrine > > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > any ideas other than uname that might be causing the core dumps of emacs? > > > > Not really - mine works fine! Are you sure your kernel and > > binaries (e.g all libraries also) are in sync? > > > > Jordan hmmm... just did a make install from /usr/src... just pkg_deleted emacs, rebuilt, and reinstalled emacs... core dumped on signal 11... one more idea.. i have yet to rebuild XFree86 and associated libraries [ugh]. i'm going to rebuild emacs "--with-x=no"... maybe the problem is somewhere in the x related libraries. short of digging deep, this might find something. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 05:39:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA08653 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:39:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (pm3-p31.tfs.net [206.154.183.223]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA08642 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:39:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA11566; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:38:55 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712031338.HAA11566@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: from Jacques Vidrine at "Dec 3, 97 07:09:51 am" To: nectar@NECTAR.COM (Jacques Vidrine) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:38:54 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Jul 9 01:01:24 CDT 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > Ya, "make buildworld" followed by "make installworld". Then config'd, > compiled, and installed a new kernel. I'm doing another cvsup and will > rebuild again while I'm at work to see if there is any change before I go > poking around. > > Jacques Vidrine > > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > any ideas other than uname that might be causing the core dumps of emacs? > > > > Not really - mine works fine! Are you sure your kernel and > > binaries (e.g all libraries also) are in sync? > > > > Jordan well, the x libs are not a problem... just recompiled and reinstalled emacs... configured with the "--with-x=no" option... leaves a big nasty corefile still... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 05:40:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA08791 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:40:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from grunt.vl.net.ua (daemon@grunt.vl.net.ua [193.124.76.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA08704 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:39:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from news@grunt.vl.net.ua) Received: from news by grunt.vl.net.ua with local (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xdF1E-0006fF-00; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:39:12 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Lock port at 14400 Date: 3 Dec 1997 15:39:10 +0200 Message-ID: <663ndu$p0g$1@grunt.vl.net.ua> X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970930; i386 FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE] X-Via: News-To-Mail v1.0 From: Vladimir Litovka Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! How I can lock port to 14400? -- Vladimir Litovka , hostmaster of vl.net.ua ---------------- Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 08:21:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA21161 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21127 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA16876; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:31:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:31:34 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Vladimir Litovka cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lock port at 14400 In-Reply-To: <663ndu$p0g$1@grunt.vl.net.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 3 Dec 1997, Vladimir Litovka wrote: > Hello! > > How I can lock port to 14400? You don't, 14400 isn't a rate available to uarts. It's a common error among some folks who have 14400, 28800, or 33.6k modems, who incorrectly assume that the modem must be talked to at the 14400, 28800, or 33.6k rate. It isn't so. First thing, all those modems have autobaud detection, and will set up automatically at any rate you speak to it at. Second, they have features like compression and error control, which require that they communicate _faster_ than the line rate. Most folks talk to their modems at 57600 or 115Kbps. > > -- > Vladimir Litovka , hostmaster of vl.net.ua > ---------------- Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 08:40:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA23067 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:40:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from norfolk.worldreach.net (norfolk.worldreach.net [206.229.86.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23047; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:40:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vircom.computers@vircomcomputers.com) Received: from don.worldreach.net (DONNIE [206.229.86.245]) by norfolk.worldreach.net (8.7.3 Version 1.1 Build 564/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00120; Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:13:47 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Message-Id: <199712031613.LAA00120@norfolk.worldreach.net> X-Mailer: Group Mail 1.86 To: 12-3-97 From: Vircom Computers Subject: Vircom's 12/3/97 Super Sale Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:41:12 PST Reply-To: Vircom Computers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk V I R C O M O N L I N E S T O R E ( http://www.vircomcomputers.com ) 12/3/97 Super Sales are: 8 MB RAM (2x32 60ns EDO) - Only $16.00 16 MB RAM (4x32 60ns EDO) - Only $32.00 32 MB RAM (8x32 60ns EDO) - Only $65.00 Super Sales will run for 12 hours, 10am - 10pm EST, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. The products offered during these sales will be at the lowest possible prices that we can offer. Orders for these products will be processed and shipped the following business day. These Super Sales prices will only be honored during that 12 hour period. Any order can be placed securely online or by contacting a sales representative toll free at 1-888-774-0457. Vircom Computers is now a wholesale distributor for the Pacific Image line of high quality scanners. PLEASE NOTE: If you do not wish to receive email from us, please reply to this message and ask to be removed...Thank You!! P.S. Please address any questions other than removal requests to: vircom@worldreach.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 08:49:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA23859 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23817 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04359; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712031622.IAA04359@austin.polstra.com> To: nectar@NECTAR.COM Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 08:22:09 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > Hi, emacs-19.34 has started dumping core on me since I cvsup'd and make'd > on 12/2. > > Recompiling emacs didn't help. > > The backtrace looks like the below. Has anyone else seen this? > > $ gdb emacs [...] > #0 0xc40d4 in _malloc_internal (size=4096) at gmalloc.c:717 > 717 while (_heapinfo[block].free.size < blocks) > (gdb) bt > #0 0xc40d4 in _malloc_internal (size=4096) at gmalloc.c:717 > #1 0xc4651 in malloc (size=4096) at gmalloc.c:810 > #2 0xc3ef6 in _malloc_internal (size=0) at gmalloc.c:679 > #3 0xc4651 in malloc (size=4) at gmalloc.c:810 > #4 0x85c21 in emacs_blocked_malloc (size=4) at alloc.c:365 > #5 0xc4651 in malloc (size=4) at gmalloc.c:810 > #6 0x85a0b in xmalloc (size=4) at alloc.c:261 > #7 0x3f6ba in sort_args (argc=1, argv=0xefbfdbd0) at emacs.c:1087 > #8 0x3ebe1 in main (argc=1, argv=0xefbfdbd0, envp=0xefbfdbd8) at > emacs.c:437 > (gdb) Erk, the fact that it dies in malloc worries me. I wonder if it could be related to the recent change I put into the dynamic linker, whereby the dynamic linker now uses the application's malloc. Could you revert your dynamic linker to the version that existed on November 25 and see if it makes a difference? The sources are in "src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/". You don't need to recompile emacs to test it. Thanks, John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 09:29:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA26885 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:29:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26879 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03372; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:29:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712031729.JAA03372@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: John Polstra cc: nectar@NECTAR.COM, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 08:22:09 PST." <199712031622.IAA04359@austin.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:29:16 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Erk, the fact that it dies in malloc worries me. I wonder if it could > be related to the recent change I put into the dynamic linker, whereby > the dynamic linker now uses the application's malloc. I recompiled the kernel minus the dynamic loader check in and the system is working fine over here -- well at least emacs still works. I did a cvsup on Sunday. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 10:09:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00163 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:09:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00154 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:09:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04975; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:07:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712031807.KAA04975@austin.polstra.com> To: Jean-Marc Zucconi cc: nectar@nectar.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:02:56 +0100." <9712031802.AA06665@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 10:07:55 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Erk, the fact that it dies in malloc worries me. I wonder if > > it could be related to the recent change I put into the dynamic > > linker, whereby the dynamic linker now uses the application's > > malloc. > > Ah! this is probably the culprit because I reinstalled an old > /usr/lib, an old kernel with its lkms, and emacs still core dumps. Yes, my dynamic linker changes are definitely the cause of the problem. I confirmed it with some experiments, and Amancio reported the same thing. Reverting to the dynamic linker from around Nov. 25 makes it work fine. Note, you don't have to rebuild the kernel or emacs or anything else except the dynamic linker. The whole thing is pretty ironic. The dynamic linker changes made it possible to get the stack trace, which in turn pointed the finger at the dynamic linker changes. :-O I am not going to back out the changes right away. But I will look at emacs as soon as I can and work out a fix. I'll also post a heads up in the -current mailing list. Sorry for the hassle. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 11:30:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05710 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:30:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (bob.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05658 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@bob.scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bob.scl.ameslab.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04658; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:29:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712031929.NAA04658@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dg@root.com cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic, kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:03:58 PST." <199712030403.UAA05314@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:29:21 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>I have a server running a moderately current 2.2.5 (about 3000-4000 >>processes), that is dying with the above listed panic semi-regularly. >> >>The server has 512MB of RAM in it, and does lots of NFS traffic. (keeps a >>100MB half-duplex ethernet running about 40% of capacity. >> >>I have maxusers set to 256 in config, but not sure what other parameters >>may need to be bumped, or more importantly, how they relate to maxusers. >> >>Any tip appreciated. > > In the file /sys/i386/include/vmparam.h, change the parameter VM_KMEM_SIZE >to 64MB. Perhaps this should be made a config option for now? Chris > >-DG > >David Greenman >Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 12:05:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08284 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:05:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (pm3-p34.tfs.net [206.154.183.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08278 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:05:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA19354; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:05:16 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712032005.OAA19354@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: <199712031932.LAA05572@austin.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Dec 3, 97 11:32:37 am" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:05:15 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > can you send me a copy of the 11/25 rtld.c ? > > See . You will need the Nov. 25 > versions of: > > Makefile > rtld.c > malloc.c > sbrk.c > > Sorry, I'm trying to meet a deadline and I can't send them to you > right now. thanks... got it... emacs is running.. looking through your notes, could this be a problem with gnu-malloc() which emacs defaults to? jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 12:11:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09006 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08996 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:11:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@cdsnet.net) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA13428 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:11:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:11:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Minor ftpd buglet. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This may have been reported, I'm way behind on my -hackers mail. The man page for ftpd says to set FTP_INTERNAL_LS, but the makefile requires FTPD_INTERNAL_LS, note the D. One or the other needs to be fixed. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 12:12:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09158 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:12:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09152 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:12:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05798; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712032012.MAA05798@austin.polstra.com> To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:05:15 CST." <199712032005.OAA19354@unix.tfs.net> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 12:12:01 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > looking through your notes, could this be a problem with > gnu-malloc() which emacs defaults to? Toward the end of the build process, emacs does this hack where it loads all the standard elisp files and compiles them internally. Then it "dumps" itself to produce the executable that gets installed. I.e., it writes its own address space out to a file and hacks it into an a.out executable. The problem has something to do with that. I can't look into it any deeper until this evening at the soonest. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 12:59:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12459 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:59:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12453 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xdLtb-0004gt-00; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:59:47 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA14152; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:59:32 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712032059.NAA14152@harmony.village.org> To: Andrzej Bialecki Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 12:48:35 +0100." References: Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:59:32 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Andrzej Bialecki writes: : Once again, such situation makes me wonder why there isn't posssible to : somehow get ALL of the valid tags.... Perhaps it's possible, but noone : seems to know how to do it. cd /usr/src cvs log Makefile | more that will give you a fairly complete list of all the major tags. I've got to get that FAQ that jordan wants me to write done :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 13:11:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA13368 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:11:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13356 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:11:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24428; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:10:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:10:54 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: John Polstra cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: <199712032012.MAA05798@austin.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk just out of curiosity, is the core file size a nice round number like say 16777216? I've been surprised at times by login.conf limits... -c On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, John Polstra wrote: > > looking through your notes, could this be a problem with > > gnu-malloc() which emacs defaults to? > > Toward the end of the build process, emacs does this hack where it > loads all the standard elisp files and compiles them internally. Then > it "dumps" itself to produce the executable that gets installed. > I.e., it writes its own address space out to a file and hacks it into > an a.out executable. > > The problem has something to do with that. I can't look into it any > deeper until this evening at the soonest. > > John > -- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 13:44:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA16061 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:44:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p27.tfs.net [139.146.205.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA16005 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:43:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA22730; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:39:20 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712032139.PAA22730@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: from Chris Timmons at "Dec 3, 97 01:10:54 pm" To: skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu (Chris Timmons) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:38:57 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > just out of curiosity, is the core file size a nice round number like say > 16777216? I've been surprised at times by login.conf limits... actually, the corefiles were in the area of 600k... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 14:33:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19110 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:33:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19103 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:33:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id PAA04366 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08974 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:33:09 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:33:09 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: anyone working on policy based routing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk By this I mean something similar to Cisco's policy based routing. Want the ability to say that traffic from this IP or this interface should prefer this route, traffic from elsewhere should prefer this other route, etc. This does grow more difficult in that I need to import these routes from BGP with gated; right now there is a strict seperation between gated, which gets routes and picks which ones to use when there are multiple choices, and the kernel which simply routes what is there. Anyone doing any work on something like this? No, it isn't a trivial thing to do. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 14:33:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19138 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:33:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19071 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:32:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.1/nospam) with UUCP id XAA08503 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:32:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id XAA20606; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:13:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971203231320.14192@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:13:20 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? References: <7452.881147795@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 12:48:35PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3861 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Andrzej Bialecki: > Once again, such situation makes me wonder why there isn't posssible to > somehow get ALL of the valid tags.... Perhaps it's possible, but noone > seems to know how to do it. The best way to do it is "cd /usr/src; cvs status -v Makefile". If you don't have it extracted, just "co" the Makefile or look into Makefile,v :-) =================================================================== File: Makefile Status: Up-to-date Working revision: 1.155 Sun Oct 12 20:29:31 1997 Repository revision: 1.155 /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/Makefile,v Sticky Tag: (none) Sticky Date: (none) Sticky Options: (none) Existing Tags: RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE (revision: 1.109.2.19) RELENG_2_2_2_RELEASE (revision: 1.109.2.4) RELENG_2_2_1_RELEASE (revision: 1.109.2.2) RELENG_2_2_0_RELEASE (revision: 1.109.2.2) RELENG_2_1_7_RELEASE (revision: 1.57.4.19) RELENG_2_1_6_1_RELEASE (revision: 1.57.4.19) RELENG_2_1_6_RELEASE (revision: 1.57.4.19) RELENG_2_2 (branch: 1.109.2) RELENG_2_2_BP (revision: 1.109) RELENG_2_1_5_RELEASE (revision: 1.57.4.17) RELENG_2_1_0_RELEASE (revision: 1.57.4.8) RELENG_2_1_0 (branch: 1.57.4) RELENG_2_1_0_BP (revision: 1.57) RELENG_2_0_5_RELEASE (revision: 1.57) RELENG_2_0_5 (branch: 1.57.2) RELENG_2_0_5_BP (revision: 1.57) RELENG_2_0_5_ALPHA (revision: 1.56) RELEASE_2_0 (revision: 1.30) BETA_2_0 (revision: 1.30) ALPHA_2_0 (branch: 1.29.2) bsd_44_lite (revision: 1.1.1.1) CSRG (branch: 1.1.1) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #18: Tue Nov 25 22:32:12 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 16:40:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27794 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:40:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rhiannon.clari.net.au (rhiannon.clari.net.au [203.27.85.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27769 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:40:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au) Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.clari.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA04301; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:39:31 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:39:31 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Hawkins Message-Id: <199712040039.LAA04301@rhiannon.clari.net.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! Cc: ajones@ctron.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu, shivers@ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK This sounds like an interesting project - I'm in. let's form a little group? Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 17:17:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01087 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01082 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA00793; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:16:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07115; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:34:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id UAA06170; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:22:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:22:02 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199712040122.UAA06170@lakes.dignus.com> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au, toor@dyson.iquest.net Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! Cc: ajones@ctron.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu, shivers@ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think some people where I work would be interested as well. I've begun discussing it with them... - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 18:08:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05335 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05324 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id SAA15588; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:08:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id JAA06002; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:39:26 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971204093922.33319@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:39:22 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Thomas Gellekum Cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, Jacques Vidrine , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CVS tags (was: Re: emacs core dumping on -current?) References: <199712030935.DAA27323@unix.tfs.net> <87btyyyblv.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <87btyyyblv.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>; from Thomas Gellekum on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 11:17:31AM +0100 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 11:17:31AM +0100, Thomas Gellekum wrote: > Jim Bryant writes: > >> another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i >> was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... > > There's no such tag as RELENG_2_2_5. Use RELENG_2_2 for 2.2.5-stable > (post-2.2.5) and RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE for the 2.2.5-RELEASE bits. Does this imply that if you specify an invalid tag to cvs, it just ignores it? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 18:13:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05860 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05847 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from thelab.hub.org (localhost.hub.org [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id WAA10151; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:13:02 -0400 (AST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:13:02 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Thomas David Rivers cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-Reply-To: <199712040122.UAA06170@lakes.dignus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > I think some people where I work would be interested as well. I've > begun discussing it with them... A little late, no? I did some research for work, and from what I can determine (please, someone correct me if I am wrong) AFS evolved into DFS...there seems to be alot of nice DFS/DCE stuff going on now... Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 18:42:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08312 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:42:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smoke.marlboro.vt.us (smoke.marlboro.vt.us [198.206.215.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08307 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:42:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cgull@smoke.marlboro.vt.us) Received: (from cgull@localhost) by smoke.marlboro.vt.us (8.8.7/8.8.7/cgull) id VAA00438; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:41:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:41:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712040241.VAA00438@smoke.marlboro.vt.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: cgull+usenet-881043931@smoke.marlboro.vt.us (john hood) To: sos@freebsd.dk Cc: tg@award.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jay M. Richmond" Subject: Re: PIIX configuration In-Reply-To: <199711261348.OAA05497@sos.freebsd.dk> References: <19971126133602.62657@mail.award.de> <199711261348.OAA05497@sos.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under Emacs 19.34.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id SAA08308 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Søren Schmidt writes: > In reply to tg@award.de who wrote: > > Is there any chance to take the code from current and mix it into 2,2,x without > > too much work ? > > > > Well, it should be, the author of the DMA code did it on a 2.2.x system.. That's true, I originally did it there. But I moved to a -current box for development, and the code has changed a fair bit since, and diverged fairly badly. It shouldn't be too hard (though tedious) to backport (ediff ho!), but I haven't done it in a while. I should, but there's a significant problem with the code's design that insists I do a fair bit of rework, and that comes first. --jh -- Mr. Belliveau said, "the difference was the wise, John Hood, cgull intelligent look on the face of the cow." He was @ *so* right. --Ofer Inbar smoke.marlboro.vt.us From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 18:59:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09402 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:59:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09387 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00691; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:32:52 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712020002.KAA00691@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Fred L. Templin" cc: "John S. Dyson" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: copyout()/copyin() In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:13:57 -0800." <199712012114.NAA10819@grayling.erg.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:32:52 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is kinda interesting stuff; I'm just about to launch into the design of a PCI adapter and driver that would ideally be able to do this... > This is essentially what I'm doing right now; I basically only copy the data > when driven by the process - either as the result of a synchronous syscall or > after the kernel wakes the process up after an asynchronous event. The > disadvantage is that I'd really like to move the data directly between the > user buffers and device memory; bypassing kernel memory altogether (I know; I > failed to mention this in my original message!) Which brings us to: What sort of timing granularity and latency can you accept? If you're not too bothered about latency just have the read/write call sleep and wake it out of your interrupt handler. Then traverse the uio manually using the fu*/su* functions. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 19:27:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11843 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11824 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:27:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25696; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:27:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:27:15 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: The Hermit Hacker cc: Thomas David Rivers , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > I think some people where I work would be interested as well. I've > > begun discussing it with them... > > A little late, no? I did some research for work, and from what > I can determine (please, someone correct me if I am wrong) AFS evolved into > DFS...there seems to be alot of nice DFS/DCE stuff going on now... I am at one of the largest AFS cells, am fairly familar with DCE/DFS, and quite familar with AFS (I also have access to the AFS 3.4a-p6 sources, and have already start some of the early work on this... (not much, been too busy with classes :( ). It seems like DCE/DFS isn't really taking off in the industry like AFS did... and NFS v3/NIS+ threatens to provide almost all features that DFS (client side caching, a network registry, file based ACLs) does, at much less expence. IMO AFS will keep its toehold on the market, and DFS/DCE won't make much headway. I would like to be added to the AFS porting list, and I think it would be good t create freebsd-afs@freebsd.org to keep some of this traffic off of -hackers :) -- David Cross ACS Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 20:14:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16310 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16301; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:14:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01448; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:39:29 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712040409.OAA01448@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Gopakumar H Pillai cc: FreeBSD Questions , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Passwd file updation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 14:58:35 -0800." <3484929A.F3ECC50F@global.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:39:28 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How should I go about updating the passwd file through a program in the > safest way? I mean, when I do vipw it creates a file /tmp/pwd.xxxxx > where xxxxx is the pid of the process. What all such steps should be > taken to update the passwd file and eventually the passwd database. Use 'pw' to do this. sprintf() and system() are your friends. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 20:20:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16836 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16826 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:20:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03597 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd003595; Wed Dec 3 20:10:12 1997 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:07:50 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a quick slice/devfs patch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk yeah I meant dp_typ not dp_type.. (why did they DO that?) anyhow, did it work? On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > > This patch will be needed to handle newer "dangerously dedicated" > systems. Some of you have noticed that that didn't work right. > > The patch MIGHT not apply cleanly on what is out there > but hey it's a 4 liner.. I'm sur eyou get the drift :) > > *** mbr.c.old Wed Dec 3 03:31:02 1997 > --- mbr.c Wed Dec 3 03:28:50 1997 > *************** > *** 176,181 **** > --- 176,185 ---- > printf ("rejected.. bad flag\n"); > return(EINVAL); /* must be either 0 or 0x80 */ > } > + if ((dp->dp_type) && (dp->dp_size) && (dp->dp_start == 0)) { > + printf("rejected.. Slice includes MBR\n"); > + return (EINVAL); > + } > if (dp->dp_flag == 0x80) > numactive++; > } > > > ...... > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 20:58:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19243 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:58:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA19238 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:58:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ali@xcf.berkeley.edu) From: ali@xcf.berkeley.edu Received: (qmail 7536 invoked by uid 8003); 4 Dec 1997 04:46:07 -0000 Date: 4 Dec 1997 04:46:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19971204044607.7535.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: DMA to isa bus. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. I'm running freebsd 2.2.2-release. isa.c has, in isa_dmastart(): /* If B_RAW flag is set, then use autoinitialise mode */ if (flags & B_RAW) { if (flags & B_READ) outb(DMA1_MODE, DMA37MD_AUTO|DMA37MD_WRITE|chan); else outb(DMA1_MODE, DMA37MD_AUTO|DMA37MD_READ|chan); } else if (flags & B_READ) outb(DMA1_MODE, DMA37MD_SINGLE|DMA37MD_WRITE|chan); else outb(DMA1_MODE, DMA37MD_SINGLE|DMA37MD_READ|chan); outb(DMA1_FFC, 0); >From the #defins in i8237.h, _AUTO is single with auto initialize. So my choices are basically single or single with auto. I would like to use demand mode or block mode instead. Is there a good reason why these modes aren't supported? How should I go about initiating a demand or block mode transfer? Thanks. Ali. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 21:50:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23007 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:50:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22972 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:50:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id VAA08113 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id NAA06781; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:47:42 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971204134739.07060@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:47:39 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've just finished reading c't's recent processor comparison, and it would seem that Cyrix's latest MX series processors represent pretty good value for money. On the other hand, I've heard of various problems with Cyrix in the past, and I'm a little wary of running -current on one. I'd appreciate any comments you might have. Also, any ideas on suitable motherboards? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 22:29:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25697 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:29:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wafu.netgate.net (wafu.netgate.net [204.145.147.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25686 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:28:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shigio@wafu.netgate.net) Received: from chiota.signet.or.jp (INS47.tama.dti.ne.jp [210.159.144.1]) by wafu.netgate.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA28837; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:30:57 GMT Message-Id: <199712032230.WAA28837@wafu.netgate.net> Received: from chiota.signet.or.jp (localhost.signet.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by chiota.signet.or.jp (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA01301; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:28:36 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net Subject: [RFC] path converting functions. Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:28:35 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, hackers. I've written a set of simple functions to perform conversions between an absolute path name and a relative path name. Thoughts about this? o Are there any other functions that will do this? o Is this useful? o Is this the correct way to do it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ abs2rel - make a relative path name from an absolute path name abs2rel(, , ); /usr/src /etc ../usr/src rel2abs - make an absolute path name from a relative path name rel2abs(, , ); ../usr/src /etc /usr/src EXAMPLE: char result[MAXPATHLEN]; char result2[MAXPATHLEN]; char *base = "/usr/local/src"; if (abs2rel("/usr/src/sys/kern/init_main.c", base, result)) printf("%s\n", result); else fprintf(stderr, "abs2rel failed. (errno = %d)\n", errno); if (rel2abs(result, base, result2)) printf("%s\n", result2); else fprintf(stderr, "rel2abs failed. (errno = %d)\n", errno); yields: ../../src/sys/kern/init_main.c /usr/src/sys/kern/init_main.c ------------------------------------------------------------------------ abs2rel and rel2abs (source code and online manual) are available on http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/indexe.html#pathconvertc Thank you in advance. -- Shigio Yamaguchi (Freelance programmer) Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, WWW: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 3 23:35:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29527 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:35:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29521 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04646; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:35:51 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712040735.IAA04646@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-Reply-To: <19971204134739.07060@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 4, 97 01:47:39 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:35:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Greg Lehey who wrote: > I've just finished reading c't's recent processor comparison, and it > would seem that Cyrix's latest MX series processors represent pretty > good value for money. On the other hand, I've heard of various > problems with Cyrix in the past, and I'm a little wary of running > -current on one. I'd appreciate any comments you might have. > > Also, any ideas on suitable motherboards? Well with the current prices on a 180Mhz P6, they are VERY hard to beat... I've had enough bad experience with Cyrix to stay safely away from them... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 00:19:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA02096 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA02089 for hackers; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:19:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hsu) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:19:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199712040819.AAA02089@hub.freebsd.org> To: hackers Subject: shared library with static Motif? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a way to create a shared library with references to Motif routines resolved statically so one doesn't have to also distribute a Motif shared library? Something like gcc -shared -o liba.so -Xlinker -Bstatic libXm.a -Xlinker -Bdynamic -lX11 Even if there was a way to do this, I'm afraid this would not legally qualify to make liba.so freely redistributable and that the program which uses liba.so would itself have to statically link in the Motif library like gcc -o j main.o -la libXm.a -lX11 except I don't think this pulls in any Motif routines from libXm.a at link time. I'm going to try this now. I'd hate to have to determine all the Motif routines used in liba.so and artificially create undefined references to them so the routines get pulled in from from libXm.a at link time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 01:18:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA05512 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:18:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from isi.co.jp (ns [202.214.62.35] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA05506; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:18:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@isi.co.jp) Received: by ns.isi.co.jp id <51965>; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:04:59 +0900 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:07:54 +0900 From: john cooper To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: HP 6020 CD-R Drive compatibility Cc: john@isi.co.jp, tokada@isi.co.jp Message-Id: <97Dec4.180459jst.51965@ns.isi.co.jp> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well it took me long enough to decide to buy an HP6020 CD writer. And by the time I tried to do so, HP obsoleted the drive. Can't seem to easily find one on the CA Bay area as of last October. I assume it isn't any better by now. The 6020 was SCSI-command upward with the 4020, which was/is supported under FreeBSD 2.1->. Anyway, HP superseded the 6020 with the 7100/7110 drive which does CD-RW in addition to CD-R. Can anyone answer any of the following: 1. Any chance the CD-R SCSI command set for the 71*0 is compatible with the 6020/4020? I'm only interested in CD-R at the moment. 2. Any chance the FreeBSD driver/wormcontrol has been updated to support the 71*0? And while I have the floor.. Has anyone extended the worm driver/wormcontrol to support other drives/vendors? Any and all feedback most appreciated. Thanks, -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 01:23:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA05999 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:23:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA05990 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:22:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA00413 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:22:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:22:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: I seriously need some networking help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here is a diagram of what I want to do (if this is possible): I have not been able to get this configured: The ip addresses have been altered to protect innocent networks of unprotected wincrap 95 machines. service provider ------\ | | Ascend Pipeline 50 123.123.62.161/27 (router0) | | <----- crossover cable (ed1) FreeBSD Firewall 123.123.62.162/27 (core)---(ppp0)------modem(remote user) (ed0) proxied to | ethernet | | Windoze ethernet 123.123.62.161-190/27 My major problem is I have 30 ip addresses being used on the windoze ethernet, I want to seamlessly stick a freebsd box between the pipeline 50 and the windoze ethernet (it would usually sit directly on the ethernet) to do some ip accounting/firewalling etc., it is possible for ed0 to have a different ip address than ed1 but router0 must believe that it is on the windoze ethernet and the windoze ethernet must believe that router0 is local to it. It is really as if the freebsd is acting as a bridge, but doing packet filtering? But how do I ifconfig the interfaces? running ifconfig with the same parameters for ed0 and ed1 gives an error (file already exists) but does seem to configure them, however routing doesn't work to the second one. I have a working ppp dialup to the machine where I use the alias option to pppd this creates and arp entry for that ip address (which an ip address on the windoze network subnet) and routes packets through the freebsd machine from the ethernet to the remote user, exactly as if the user was on the local ethernet. I could there conceivably filter packets going between ed0 and ppp0, and this all works fine and dandy. Essentially what I want is the equivalent with but with a crossover cable to the pipeline 50. Lots of people have made suggestions, but I know that there is someone out there who has either done this or knows that it is impossible --- please help me, thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 01:29:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA06395 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:29:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA06390 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:29:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA14601; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:29:23 -0800 (PST) To: "David E. Cross" cc: The Hermit Hacker , Thomas David Rivers , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 22:27:15 EST." Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 01:29:23 -0800 Message-ID: <14598.881227763@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to be added to the AFS porting list, and I think it would be > good t create freebsd-afs@freebsd.org to keep some of this traffic off of > -hackers :) OK, you're the 2nd to ask now so I've just asked our postmaster to set one up with a list of initial subscribers culled from this discussion so far. I'm sure he'll send out a test message once it's up! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 01:54:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07780 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:54:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from grunt.vl.net.ua (grunt.vl.net.ua [193.124.76.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA07677 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from news@grunt.vl.net.ua) Received: from news by grunt.vl.net.ua with local (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xdXvb-00057w-00; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:50:40 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lock port at 14400 Date: 4 Dec 1997 11:50:37 +0200 Message-ID: <665udd$j7r$1@grunt.vl.net.ua> X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970930; i386 FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE] X-Via: News-To-Mail v1.0 From: Vladimir Litovka Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Chuck Robey wrote: > Second, they have features like compression and error control, which > require that they communicate _faster_ than the line rate. Most folks > talk to their modems at 57600 or 115Kbps. Thanks, I know about this. But I really need this. As I know, there is possibility to set divisor for UART, I did this under Linux, with setserial command. And this trick works correctly. Is FreeBSD has such possibility? -- Vladimir Litovka , hostmaster of vl.net.ua ---------------- Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 01:57:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08020 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08013 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:57:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@korin.warman.org.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05240; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:57:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:57:54 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Warner Losh cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: emacs core dumping on -current? In-Reply-To: <199712032059.NAA14152@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > cd /usr/src > cvs log Makefile | more Thanks for this recipe. Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 04:02:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA15465 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:02:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (wired.ctech.ac.za [155.238.4.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA15442; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wired.ctech.ac.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04369; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:02:07 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za) Message-ID: <34869BBF.2781E494@wired.ctech.ac.za> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:02:07 +0200 From: Jacques Hugo X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ncftp ... getting pissed off! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey guys ... Usually I use ncftp for ftp transfers, but since I went over to 2.2.5R, I get this error on every transfer .. Error: Error occurred during read! Reason: Operation timed out I mean, even on the smallest file. When I use normal ftp, I never get this error. I've used both versions 1.9.5 and 2.4.2, and with and without their patches. Is there anything else I've missed here ... I really do miss the -R option in normal ftp. Thanks -Jacques ------------------------------------------------------ The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" ... so I got BSD System Administrator | Jacques Hugo UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 ------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 05:00:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19088 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:00:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (pm3-p35.tfs.net [206.154.183.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA19083 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:00:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA24107; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:59:57 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712041259.GAA24107@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: CVS tags (was: Re: emacs core dumping on -current?) In-Reply-To: <19971204093922.33319@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 4, 97 09:39:22 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:59:56 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > On Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 11:17:31AM +0100, Thomas Gellekum wrote: > > Jim Bryant writes: > > > >> another thing... the cvsup tag RELENG_2_2_5 seems to retreive -current. i > >> was running 2.2-STABLE, and wanted to finally upgrade to 2.2.5, guess what... > > > > There's no such tag as RELENG_2_2_5. Use RELENG_2_2 for 2.2.5-stable > > (post-2.2.5) and RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE for the 2.2.5-RELEASE bits. > > Does this imply that if you specify an invalid tag to cvs, it just > ignores it? > > Greg nope... it just sends you -current! :^] jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 07:15:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27976 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:15:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA27969 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA20679; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:29:47 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712041329.OAA20679@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: ELF and linux emulator problem... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:29:47 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While was trying the linux (ELF) demo of mathematica, it was giving me the following message on startup: # ./mathematica ELF binary type not known Abort trap I have the linux_mod.o installed: prova# modstat Type Id Off Loadaddr Size Info Rev Module Name MISC 0 0 f72c3000 0008 f72c4000 1 star_saver_mod EXEC 1 4 f72ea000 001c f72f0010 1 linux_mod and I can successfully run rvplayer 5.0 (linux version) which is an ELF binary as well. Running "file" on both programs gives the same answer: prova# file rvplayer rvplayer: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 So I am wondering where the error message comes from. Either there are different versions/types of ELF files, or there is some of the exec* calls which is not aware of the presence of the linux emulator ? This is on a 2.2.1 system. Thanks Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 07:26:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA28843 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:26:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28838 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:26:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA08864; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:26:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:26:03 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ELF and linux emulator problem... In-Reply-To: <199712041329.OAA20679@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could it be the same phenomenon that keeps RealEncoder (the realaudio encoder) from running under our emulation? IIRC those problems had to do with the fact that the actual linux image was compiled on an obscenely old linux system, or used old libraries, or something like that. Anybody remember? On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > While was trying the linux (ELF) demo of mathematica, it was giving me > the following message on startup: > > # ./mathematica > ELF binary type not known > Abort trap > > I have the linux_mod.o installed: > > prova# modstat > Type Id Off Loadaddr Size Info Rev Module Name > MISC 0 0 f72c3000 0008 f72c4000 1 star_saver_mod > EXEC 1 4 f72ea000 001c f72f0010 1 linux_mod > > and I can successfully run rvplayer 5.0 (linux version) which is > an ELF binary as well. Running "file" on both programs gives the > same answer: > > prova# file rvplayer > rvplayer: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 > > So I am wondering where the error message comes from. Either there are > different versions/types of ELF files, or there is some of the exec* > calls which is not aware of the presence of the linux emulator ? > > This is on a 2.2.1 system. > > Thanks > Luigi > -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- > Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa > tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > _____________________________|______________________________________ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 08:23:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03386 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03379 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:23:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05763; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:23:31 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712041623.RAA05763@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: ELF and linux emulator problem... In-Reply-To: <199712041329.OAA20679@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Dec 4, 97 02:29:47 pm" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:23:26 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Luigi Rizzo who wrote: Have you tried "brandelf'ing" the binaries ?? > While was trying the linux (ELF) demo of mathematica, it was giving me > the following message on startup: > > # ./mathematica > ELF binary type not known > Abort trap > > I have the linux_mod.o installed: > > prova# modstat > Type Id Off Loadaddr Size Info Rev Module Name > MISC 0 0 f72c3000 0008 f72c4000 1 star_saver_mod > EXEC 1 4 f72ea000 001c f72f0010 1 linux_mod > > and I can successfully run rvplayer 5.0 (linux version) which is > an ELF binary as well. Running "file" on both programs gives the > same answer: > > prova# file rvplayer > rvplayer: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 > > So I am wondering where the error message comes from. Either there are > different versions/types of ELF files, or there is some of the exec* > calls which is not aware of the presence of the linux emulator ? > > This is on a 2.2.1 system. > > Thanks > Luigi > -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- > Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa > tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > _____________________________|______________________________________ > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 08:38:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04677 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:38:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terror.hungry.com (fn@terror.hungry.com [169.131.1.215]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04666 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:38:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@LISP-READER.Hungry.COM) Received: (from fn@localhost) by terror.hungry.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28810; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:38:06 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ELF and linux emulator problem... References: <199712041329.OAA20679@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: Faried Nawaz Date: 04 Dec 1997 08:38:05 -0800 In-Reply-To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it's message of 4 Dec 1997 07:57:33 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) writes: While was trying the linux (ELF) demo of mathematica, it was giving me the following message on startup: # ./mathematica ELF binary type not known Abort trap Try brandelf -- perhaps `brandelf -v -t Linux mathematica'. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 10:45:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15244 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:45:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15231 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:44:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA12213; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:45:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:45:03 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: sos@FreeBSD.dk Cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? References: <19971204134739.07060@lemis.com> <199712040735.IAA04646@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199712040735=2EIAA04646=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Thu=2C_Dec_04=2C_1997_at_08=3A35=3A5?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?1AM_+0100?= X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 08:35:51AM +0100, Søren Schmidt wrote: > In reply to Greg Lehey who wrote: > > I've just finished reading c't's recent processor comparison, and it > > would seem that Cyrix's latest MX series processors represent pretty > > good value for money. On the other hand, I've heard of various > > problems with Cyrix in the past, and I'm a little wary of running > > -current on one. I'd appreciate any comments you might have. > > > > Also, any ideas on suitable motherboards? > > Well with the current prices on a 180Mhz P6, they are VERY hard to beat... > I've had enough bad experience with Cyrix to stay safely away from them... I'd second that. I had a Cyrix 686 about 6 months ago, and I ended up throwing it in the garbage.. I had overheating problems, strange system lock-ups, etc, etc.. It might have been the motherboard, or just bad settings or something - but I tried everything and it just wasn't reliable. If you're going to do non-Intel x86, I think I'd recomend the AMD K6 over the Cyrix CPUs. I'd agree with Soren though - the Pentium Pro 180's are a real bargain right now. I know they're about $325 CAN (~$230 US). Plus, you can safely overclock them to 200, or even 233 or 240 if you're lucky - Intel is having high yields these days, and one could argue that the 180's are just marked down 200's for the most part. Certainly a lot of people at TOm's Hardware Guide are having great success overclocking the 180s. I'm heading to the store this afternoon to get a 180 (I have 1st generation 150 right now). The PPro line is very solid, and Intel, Asus, SuperMicro, and Tyan all have excellent boards. cya, -Mark > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 11:49:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21160 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:49:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cindy.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br (cindy.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br [200.17.30.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21151 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:49:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from JULAVERO@midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br) From: JULAVERO@midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br Received: from midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br (midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br [200.17.30.230]) by cindy.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19106 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:48:13 -0200 Received: from MIDWAY/SpoolDir by midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br (Mercury 1.21); 4 Dec 97 17:52:03 gmt -0300 Received: from SpoolDir by MIDWAY (Mercury 1.30); 4 Dec 97 17:51:42 gmt -0300 To: FREEBSD-HACKERS@FREEBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:51:40 GMT-0300 Subject: Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 (NDS) Message-ID: <2F04A3D32@midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk UNSUBSCRIBE From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 11:53:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21584 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:53:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cindy.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br (root@cindy.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br [200.17.30.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21336 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:50:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from JULAVERO@midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br) From: JULAVERO@midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br Received: from midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br (midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br [200.17.30.230]) by cindy.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27010 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:47:42 -0200 Received: from MIDWAY/SpoolDir by midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br (Mercury 1.21); 4 Dec 97 17:51:32 gmt -0300 Received: from SpoolDir by MIDWAY (Mercury 1.30); 4 Dec 97 17:51:02 gmt -0300 To: HACKERS@FREEBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:51:02 GMT-0300 Subject: Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 (NDS) Message-ID: <2ED73517A@midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk UNSUBSCRIBE From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 11:56:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21834 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:56:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21825 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:56:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@cdsnet.net) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA12344 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:56:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:56:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anybody heard of fgetwpent() and putpwent()? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't have these calls on my 2.2.5 box, nor my 3.0 box. I'm trying to compile some qmail add-on code that uses these functions... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 11:57:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21979 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21964; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:56:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28158; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd028138; Thu Dec 4 13:05:59 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA12406; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:56:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712041956.MAA12406@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? To: hsu@freebsd.org (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:56:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712040819.AAA02089@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Dec 4, 97 00:19:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a way to create a shared library with references to Motif routines > resolved statically so one doesn't have to also distribute a Motif shared > library? This is specifically disallowed in your Motif license. I wonder how OSF feels about JAVA being able to pop up Motif widgets in Netscape? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 12:09:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23470 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:09:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23444 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:09:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04019; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd003993; Thu Dec 4 13:18:39 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12858; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:08:40 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712042008.NAA12858@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? To: mark@vmunix.com (Mark Mayo) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:08:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, grog@lemis.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com> from "Mark Mayo" at Dec 4, 97 01:45:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd second that. I had a Cyrix 686 about 6 months ago, and I ended up > throwing it in the garbage.. I had overheating problems, strange > system lock-ups, etc, etc.. It might have been the motherboard, or just > bad settings or something - but I tried everything and it just wasn't > reliable. If you're going to do non-Intel x86, I think I'd recomend the AMD > K6 over the Cyrix CPUs. We had that same problem on Sean Eric Fagan's machine. Until we set the motherboard voltage jumper correctly. After which the problem went away. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 12:50:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29186 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29181 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29478; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:50:42 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id OAA29320; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:50:11 -0600 Message-ID: <19971204145010.50143@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:50:10 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anybody heard of fgetwpent() and putpwent()? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Jaye Mathisen on Dec 12, 1997 at 11:56:00AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Dec 12, 1997 at 11:56:00AM -0800, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > I don't have these calls on my 2.2.5 box, nor my 3.0 box. I'm trying to > compile some qmail add-on code that uses these functions... PUTPWENT(3C) DYNIX/ptx PUTPWENT(3C) NAME putpwent - write password file entry SYNOPSIS #include int putpwent (p, f) struct passwd *p; FILE *f; DESCRIPTION putpwent is the inverse of getpwent(3C). Given a pointer to a passwd structure created by getpwent (or getpwuid or getpwnam), putpwent writes a line on the stream f, which matches the format of /etc/passwd. SEE ALSO mkpwdbm(1), getpwent(3C) DIAGNOSTICS putpwent returns non-zero if an error was detected during its operation, otherwise zero. WARNINGS The above routine uses , which causes an increase in the size of programs, not otherwise using standard I/O, more than might be expected. I'm not really sure why this is useful, but I suppose that you could do the same thing with a printf() format string. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 13:01:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00422 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:01:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00412 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:01:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (tc-if2-45.ida.net [208.141.171.102]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA05426; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:01:23 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:00:41 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anybody heard of fgetwpent() and putpwent()? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > I don't have these calls on my 2.2.5 box, nor my 3.0 box. I'm trying to > compile some qmail add-on code that uses these functions... > Just checked and I see these on Linux, Solaris and OSF. I think the least portable aspect of Unix must be password table access. Take a look at the ssh package sometime. The file is auth-passwd.c. The autoconfigure on ssh is truly astonishing. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 13:02:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00536 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:02:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00528 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:02:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/) via ESMTP id NAA00412; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:02:40 -0800 (PST) env-from (jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Message-Id: <199712042102.NAA00412@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> To: mark@vmunix.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-reply-to: Message from Terry Lambert of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 20:08:39 GMT." <199712042008.NAA12858@usr09.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:02:39 -0800 From: John Milford Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > We had that same problem on Sean Eric Fagan's machine. > > Until we set the motherboard voltage jumper correctly. > > After which the problem went away. I think I will have to agree with Terry on this one I have 3 of them (P166+'s) and all of them have performed quite well. The only problem is the M1 has a 486 instruction set, so no rdtsc :( --John From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 13:26:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02924 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02910 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:26:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA13870; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:27:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971204162734.52074@vmunix.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:27:34 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: John Milford Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? References: <199712042102.NAA00412@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199712042102.NAA00412@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; from John Milford on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 01:02:39PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 01:02:39PM -0800, John Milford wrote: > > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > We had that same problem on Sean Eric Fagan's machine. > > > > Until we set the motherboard voltage jumper correctly. > > > > After which the problem went away. > > I think I will have to agree with Terry on this one I have > 3 of them (P166+'s) and all of them have performed quite well. The > only problem is the M1 has a 486 instruction set, so no rdtsc :( Well, I was definately running mine according to spec - I even spent time on the Cyrix tech support line to figure out why my system was hanging with the Cyrix CPU.. no go. LIke I said though, it might very well have been a motherboard problem, RAM timing, whatever. But me or Cyrix couldn't solve the problem, and I was using one of their "approved motherboards" (which worked fine with an Intel CPU, BTW). I don't know what the prices are like where you are, but in my neck of the woods, the AMD chips are about the same price as the Cyrix ones, and they run a hell of a lot faster :-) That's why I stand by my recomendation to buy AMD and not Cyrix -- if you don't want to go for a PPro 180 (the best deal out there IMHO). -Mark P.S. If the prices on the Alphas continue to drop, by the time I buy my next machine in the spring, I'll not only have the pleasure of not having to buy an Intel CPU, but also the joy of not buying an x86 CPU!! 8-) > > > --John -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 13:33:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03711 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:33:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03697; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19259; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:32:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA27210; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:32:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:32:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199712042132.OAA27210@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: hsu@freebsd.org (Jeffrey Hsu), hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-Reply-To: <199712041956.MAA12406@usr09.primenet.com> References: <199712040819.AAA02089@hub.freebsd.org> <199712041956.MAA12406@usr09.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is there a way to create a shared library with references to Motif routines > > resolved statically so one doesn't have to also distribute a Motif shared > > library? > > This is specifically disallowed in your Motif license. Actually, it depends on which version of Motif you are talking about. Motif 1.2 didn't have this restriction. > I wonder how OSF feels about JAVA being able to pop up Motif widgets > in Netscape? Since Sun is one of the OSF folks who 'own' Motif I doubt they have anything to say about it. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 13:35:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA04015 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:35:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03979; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:35:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199712042135.NAA03979@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: ELF and linux emulator problem... To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:35:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712041329.OAA20679@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Dec 4, 97 02:29:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > While was trying the linux (ELF) demo of mathematica, it was giving me > the following message on startup: > > # ./mathematica > ELF binary type not known > Abort trap > brandelf -t Linux ./mathematica jmb From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 13:58:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06765 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:58:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06751 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:58:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14863; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:54:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:54:41 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Søren Schmidt cc: Luigi Rizzo , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ELF and linux emulator problem... In-Reply-To: <199712041623.RAA05763@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk fyi - brandelf solved our problem with the real audio encoder program. thanks! -Chris On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Søren Schmidt wrote: > In reply to Luigi Rizzo who wrote: > > Have you tried "brandelf'ing" the binaries ?? > > > While was trying the linux (ELF) demo of mathematica, it was giving me > > the following message on startup: > > > > # ./mathematica > > ELF binary type not known > > Abort trap > > > > I have the linux_mod.o installed: > > > > prova# modstat > > Type Id Off Loadaddr Size Info Rev Module Name > > MISC 0 0 f72c3000 0008 f72c4000 1 star_saver_mod > > EXEC 1 4 f72ea000 001c f72f0010 1 linux_mod > > > > and I can successfully run rvplayer 5.0 (linux version) which is > > an ELF binary as well. Running "file" on both programs gives the > > same answer: > > > > prova# file rvplayer > > rvplayer: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 > > > > So I am wondering where the error message comes from. Either there are > > different versions/types of ELF files, or there is some of the exec* > > calls which is not aware of the presence of the linux emulator ? > > > > This is on a 2.2.1 system. > > > > Thanks > > Luigi > > -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- > > Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa > > tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > > fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > > _____________________________|______________________________________ > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 14:25:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09886 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:25:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from maggie.systemix.com (cc520761-a.hwrd1.md.home.com [24.3.20.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09880 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:25:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@systemix.com) Received: by maggie.systemix.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BD00D7.9F504B10@maggie.systemix.com>; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:11:12 -0500 Message-ID: From: Brian Cuthie To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Embedded FreeBSD Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:11:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm looking for advice on using FreeBSD as an Embedded OS, especially with the real-time extensions. Any advice or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -Brian -- Brian Cuthie Systemix Software, Inc. 410-290-8813 brian@systemix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 14:29:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10086 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:29:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10081 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:28:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xdjl9-0000UU-00; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:28:39 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA04563; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:27:24 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712042227.PAA04563@harmony.village.org> To: Mark Mayo Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:45:03 EST." <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com> References: <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com> <19971204134739.07060@lemis.com> <199712040735.IAA04646@sos.freebsd.dk> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:27:23 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com> Mark Mayo writes: : TOm's Hardware Guide are having great success overclocking the 180s. : I'm heading to the store this afternoon to get a 180 (I have 1st generation : 150 right now). The PPro line is very solid, and Intel, Asus, SuperMicro, : and Tyan all have excellent boards. I've been running my 180 at 200 for months now in the SuperMicro 6SNS motherboard. I've not tried to push it to 233 or 240. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 15:27:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14469 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:27:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (node59.tfs.net [207.2.220.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14452 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:27:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA27270 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:26:54 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712042326.RAA27270@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Anybody heard of fgetwpent() and putpwent()? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:26:54 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > PUTPWENT(3C) DYNIX/ptx PUTPWENT(3C) > > [...] > > I'm not really sure why this is useful, but I suppose that you could do > the same thing with a printf() format string. i guess it was for people who cannot read passwd(5)... not a bad idea though.. dupe checking as a feature would be nice... better yet, a buffer write instead of actually printing it would be better a la sprintf(). jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 15:29:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14685 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.iosys.net (mail.iosys.net [207.67.20.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14674; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:29:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadawui@hatterasinlet.com) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from 208.11.179.72 by mail.iosys.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id YGXLZQ7V; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:30:05 -0600 To: nadawui@hatterasinlet.com From: nadawui@hatterasinlet.com (Barrier Island Realty) Comments: Authenticated sender is Reply-to: hatterasinlet.com Subject: Complimentary 3 day 2 night stay on the Outer Banks... Message-Id: <199712043400YAA35290@sample.kryan.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We at Barrier Island Invite you and your spouse for a Complimentary 3 day 2 night stay on the Outer Banks... FREE Vacation Offer! http://www.bistation.com/bi-inquiry.htm For the Ultimate vacation Experience.....Discover the Outer Banks Please visit our website at http://www.bistation.com for more information. Call 1-800-237-5177 or email darjon@interpath.com Thank you for your time. If you would like to be removed from our list please type remove in the subject or in the bi-inquiry From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 16:18:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA17785 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:18:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (n183.cs32e.value.net [209.24.62.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17775 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:18:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00299; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:17:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:17:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Terry Lambert cc: Mark Mayo , sos@FreeBSD.dk, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-Reply-To: <199712042008.NAA12858@usr09.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had similar problems with a cheap asian motherboard that had default memory timings that a socket 7 system is probably not capable of. On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I'd second that. I had a Cyrix 686 about 6 months ago, and I ended up > > throwing it in the garbage.. I had overheating problems, strange > > system lock-ups, etc, etc.. It might have been the motherboard, or just > > bad settings or something - but I tried everything and it just wasn't > > reliable. If you're going to do non-Intel x86, I think I'd recomend the AMD > > K6 over the Cyrix CPUs. > > We had that same problem on Sean Eric Fagan's machine. > > Until we set the motherboard voltage jumper correctly. > > After which the problem went away. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 16:20:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18040 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:20:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18035 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id AAA15818; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:19:12 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:11:50 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19971204134739.07060@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:10:48 +0000 To: Greg Lehey From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, At 5:47 am +0000 4/12/97, Greg Lehey wrote: >... Cyrix ... I'd appreciate any comments you might have. I've heard of problems but never seen any (even running at extended temperatures due to fan failure). OTOH the AMD K6 is pretty good too. >Also, any ideas on suitable motherboards? We've got 10+ systems running Cyrix or AMD on QDI Titaniums. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 16:29:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18786 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:29:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ve7tcp.ampr.org (root@ve7tcp.ampr.org [198.161.92.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18778 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org) Received: from localhost.ampr.org (lyndon@localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by ve7tcp.ampr.org (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA00374; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:28:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712050028.RAA00374@ve7tcp.ampr.org> X-Authentication-Warning: ve7tcp.ampr.org: lyndon@localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anybody heard of fgetwpent() and putpwent()? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:26:54 CST." <199712042326.RAA27270@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:28:40 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > PUTPWENT(3C) DYNIX/ptx PUTPWENT(3C) > i guess it was for people who cannot read passwd(5)... No, it's for *programs* that can't read passwd(5) :-) What makes it useless is that there's no C API for locking the password file(s), installing the new password file, etc. --lyndon From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 16:40:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19533 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:40:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19525 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:40:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA26831 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:39:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma026825; Thu Dec 4 16:39:36 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA20293 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:39:36 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712050039.QAA20293@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: libmd.so ? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:39:35 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I noticed that in 2.2.5, /usr/lib/libmd.a exists but no (a.out) shared version of the same exists... how come? The cvs log messages are not very informative. I assume this is some kind of optimization... # $Id: Makefile,v 1.24 1997/09/05 11:49:43 peter Exp $ LIB= md .if ${BINFORMAT} != elf NOPIC= true .endif Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 16:42:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19689 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA19674 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:42:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id AAA21806; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:38:03 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712042338.AAA21806@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ELF and linux emulator problem... To: skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu (Chris Timmons) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:38:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chris Timmons" at Dec 4, 97 01:54:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > fyi - brandelf solved our problem with the real audio encoder program. > thanks! thanks all who responded. I haven't tried brandelf but will do tomorrow. luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 16:44:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19973 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:44:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from per.plex.nl (SPARCserver.plex.nl [193.67.154.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA19946 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:44:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbackus@plex.nl) Received: from jos.mp-c.com (isdn-11q.plex.nl [194.229.212.58]) by per.plex.nl (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA18888; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:35:53 +0100 X-Disclaimer: Plex is a public access Internet provider Received: (qmail 2068 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Dec 1997 00:36:43 -0000 Message-ID: <19971205003643.2067.qmail@jos.mp-c.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: jbackus@plex.nl Subject: Teeny-weeny /usr/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c patch Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 01:36:43 +0100 From: Jos Backus Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk *** ipfw.c.dist Fri Dec 5 01:29:49 1997 --- ipfw.c Fri Dec 5 01:30:20 1997 *************** *** 1197,1202 **** --- 1197,1203 ---- while (fgets(buf, BUFSIZ, f)) { lineno++; + if (buf[0]=='#'||buf[0]=='\n') continue; sprintf(linename, "Line %d", lineno); args[0] = linename; This allows comments/empty lines in a firewall rule file (when using the ``ipfw rulefile'' syntax), which seems pretty handy (at least to me -- documenting rules and all that). If this is deemed a worthwhile enhancement, maybe one of the committers could do the honors? Thanks! Groetjes, -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Modularity is not a hack." _/ _/ _/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ jbackus@plex.nl _/_/ _/_/_/ #include From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 16:44:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20004 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:44:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from per.plex.nl (SPARCserver.plex.nl [193.67.154.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA19978 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:44:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbackus@plex.nl) Received: from jos.mp-c.com (isdn-11q.plex.nl [194.229.212.58]) by per.plex.nl (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA18883; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:35:51 +0100 X-Disclaimer: Plex is a public access Internet provider Received: (qmail 2068 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Dec 1997 00:36:43 -0000 Message-ID: <19971205003643.2067.qmail@jos.mp-c.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: jbackus@plex.nl Subject: Teeny-weeny /usr/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c patch Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 01:36:43 +0100 From: Jos Backus Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk *** ipfw.c.dist Fri Dec 5 01:29:49 1997 --- ipfw.c Fri Dec 5 01:30:20 1997 *************** *** 1197,1202 **** --- 1197,1203 ---- while (fgets(buf, BUFSIZ, f)) { lineno++; + if (buf[0]=='#'||buf[0]=='\n') continue; sprintf(linename, "Line %d", lineno); args[0] = linename; This allows comments/empty lines in a firewall rule file (when using the ``ipfw rulefile'' syntax), which seems pretty handy (at least to me -- documenting rules and all that). If this is deemed a worthwhile enhancement, maybe one of the committers could do the honors? Thanks! Groetjes, -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Modularity is not a hack." _/ _/ _/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ jbackus@plex.nl _/_/ _/_/_/ #include From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 17:36:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24221 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:36:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24216 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:36:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA27287; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma027283; Thu Dec 4 17:35:32 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11453; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:35:32 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712050135.RAA11453@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: libmd.so ? In-Reply-To: <199712050039.QAA20293@bubba.whistle.com> from Archie Cobbs at "Dec 4, 97 04:39:35 pm" To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:35:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Archie Cobbs writes: > I noticed that in 2.2.5, /usr/lib/libmd.a exists but no (a.out) shared > version of the same exists... how come? The cvs log messages are > not very informative. I assume this is some kind of optimization... Ah, now after having looked again I see the relevant comment.. revision 1.1.1.1 date: 1994/07/24 03:29:55; author: phk; state: Exp; lines: +0 -0 Reviewed by: phk Imported libmd. This library contains MD2, MD4 and MD5. These three boggers pop up all over the place all of the time, so I decided we needed a library with them. In general they are used for security checks, so if you use them you want to link them static. Isn't it the job of the particular program being compiled to determine whether security warrants linking this statically? There are plenty of non-security related reasons to use MD5 (for example, as a checksummer). Not installing the shared lib at all seems a bit presumptuous, though understandable from a security conscious point of view. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 17:43:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24801 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:43:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24796 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:43:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA27368; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma027366; Thu Dec 4 17:42:19 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11543; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:42:19 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712050142.RAA11543@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Teeny-weeny /usr/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c patch In-Reply-To: <19971205003643.2067.qmail@jos.mp-c.com> from Jos Backus at "Dec 5, 97 01:36:43 am" To: jbackus@plex.nl Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:42:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jos Backus writes: > *** ipfw.c.dist Fri Dec 5 01:29:49 1997 > --- ipfw.c Fri Dec 5 01:30:20 1997 > *************** > *** 1197,1202 **** > --- 1197,1203 ---- > while (fgets(buf, BUFSIZ, f)) { > > lineno++; > + if (buf[0]=='#'||buf[0]=='\n') continue; > sprintf(linename, "Line %d", lineno); > args[0] = linename; > > This allows comments/empty lines in a firewall rule file (when using the > ``ipfw rulefile'' syntax), which seems pretty handy (at least to me -- > documenting rules and all that). Good idea! But may I suggest this tweak? So a blank line with extra white space is OK too... *** ipfw.c.orig Fri Dec 5 01:39:35 1997 --- ipfw.c Fri Dec 5 01:40:33 1997 *************** *** 1200,1208 **** --- 1200,1212 ---- sprintf(linename, "Line %d", lineno); args[0] = linename; + if (*buf == '#') + continue; for (i = 1, a = strtok(buf, WHITESP); a && i < MAX_ARGS; a = strtok(NULL, WHITESP), i++) args[i] = a; + if (i == 1) + continue; if (i == MAX_ARGS) errx(1, "%s: too many arguments", linename); args[i] = NULL; Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 18:13:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA27711 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27697 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:13:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA28175; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:12:33 -0800 (PST) To: Mark Mayo cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:45:03 EST." <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:12:32 -0800 Message-ID: <28171.881287952@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd agree with Soren though - the Pentium Pro 180's are a real bargain > right now. I know they're about $325 CAN (~$230 US). Plus, you can > safely overclock them to 200, or even 233 or 240 if you're lucky - Intel I can attest to this - my dual P6/180 (Tyan 1668) became a dual P6/233 with no trouble at all and probably represents the cheapest reasonably-well-performing SMP box you can buy right now. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 18:48:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA00937 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA00917; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:48:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA28437; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:48:29 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: hsu@FreeBSD.ORG (Jeffrey Hsu), hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:56:15 GMT." <199712041956.MAA12406@usr09.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:48:29 -0800 Message-ID: <28434.881290109@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is specifically disallowed in your Motif license. No it's not. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 19:23:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA04862 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:23:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from barrichello.ucr.edu (root@mail.cs.ucr.edu [138.23.169.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04836; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:23:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from korpe@cs.ucr.edu) Received: from hill.ucr.edu (root@hill.ucr.edu [138.23.169.109]) by barrichello.ucr.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28363; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:23:23 -0800 From: Ibrahim Korpeoglu Received: (from korpe@localhost) by hill.ucr.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04141; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:13:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199712050313.TAA04141@hill.ucr.edu> Subject: svga on dell latitude laptop To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org (frebsd-questions), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (freebsd-hack), freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org (freebsd-multimedia), freebsd-platforms@freebsd.org (freebsd-platform) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:13:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: korpe@cs.ucr.edu (Ibrahim Korpeoglu) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have a Dell Latitude XpiCD Laptop, running FreeBSD 2.2.2, having neomagic video card. I am running XFree86, in VGA mode, with 16 colors. Did anybody have success to run XFree86 in SVGA mode on such a machine with 256 or more colors? Thanks a lot. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Ibrahim Korpeoglu. korpe@cs.ucr.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 19:53:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07680 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:53:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07663 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:53:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-22.cetlink.net [209.54.58.22]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02491; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:53:23 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 04:54:25 GMT Message-ID: <348a8818.1537790@mail.cetlink.net> References: <28171.881287952@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <28171.881287952@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id TAA07668 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:12:32 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >> Pentium Pro 180's are a real bargain. Plus, you can safely >> overclock them to 200, or even 233 ^^^^^^ >I can attest to this - my dual P6/180 (Tyan 1668) became a >dual P6/233 with no trouble at all and probably represents >the cheapest reasonably-well-performing SMP box you can buy >right now. :) Well, Jordan, since you said it's "safe" now I guess you'll be happy listen to bug reports from overclockers, eh? ;-) John From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 19:57:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08044 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08030 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA28912; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:57:48 -0800 (PST) To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 04:54:25 GMT." <348a8818.1537790@mail.cetlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:57:48 -0800 Message-ID: <28908.881294268@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, Jordan, since you said it's "safe" now I guess you'll be happy > listen to bug reports from overclockers, eh? ;-) Heck no, I delete stuff like that. Doesn't stop me from making all the wild claims I want to though, haha! ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 20:14:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09567 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:14:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smoke.marlboro.vt.us (smoke.marlboro.vt.us [198.206.215.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09554; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:13:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cgull@smoke.marlboro.vt.us) Received: (from cgull@localhost) by smoke.marlboro.vt.us (8.8.7/8.8.7/cgull) id XAA04479; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:13:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:13:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712050413.XAA04479@smoke.marlboro.vt.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="n5D5bjVLbs" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from: cgull+usenet-881294066@smoke.marlboro.vt.us To: davidg@freebsd.org, dg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fatal kernel bug in -current, or pointy hat time :) X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under Emacs 19.34.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --n5D5bjVLbs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DG's performance-tweaking patch last night to the kernel malloc left out a little something. There's a little problem with the structure ordering rearrangement in sys/malloc.h: the initializer for the struct needs to be rearranged , too :) This causes malloc to think it has no memory available, which is quickly fatal. In my case (and probably everybody else's) it causes a null pointer dereference and kernel page fault. The first part of the patch in this batch fixes this bug. The other two parts follow on my earlier ddb_input malloc-bug patch, and are much less important. Now, not having commit privileges means I don't have a FreeBSD-labeled pointy hat handy...would somebody send it round? :) --jh --n5D5bjVLbs Content-Type: text/plain Content-Description: stars, moon, planet, point Content-Disposition: inline; filename="zot" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- sys/malloc.h.old Thu Dec 4 03:44:22 1997 +++ sys/malloc.h Thu Dec 4 22:26:40 1997 @@ -63,7 +63,8 @@ }; #define MALLOC_DEFINE(type, shortdesc, longdesc) \ - struct malloc_type type[1] = { { shortdesc, M_MAGIC } }; \ + struct malloc_type type[1] = { { NULL, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, \ + M_MAGIC, shortdesc, 0, 0 } }; \ struct __hack #define MALLOC_DECLARE(type) \ --- kern/kern_malloc.c.old Thu Nov 6 22:39:34 1997 +++ kern/kern_malloc.c Thu Dec 4 20:47:39 1997 @@ -408,6 +408,9 @@ if (type->ks_magic != M_MAGIC) panic("malloc type lacks magic"); + if (cnt.v_page_count == 0) + panic("malloc_init not allowed before vm init"); + /* * Limit maximum memory for each type to 60% of malloc area size or * 60% of physical memory, whichever is smaller. --- ddb/db_input.c.dist Thu Nov 6 22:37:29 1997 +++ ddb/db_input.c Thu Dec 4 22:36:58 1997 @@ -32,7 +32,6 @@ */ #include -#include #include #include --n5D5bjVLbs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mr. Belliveau said, "the difference was the wise, John Hood, cgull intelligent look on the face of the cow." He was @ *so* right. --Ofer Inbar smoke.marlboro.vt.us --n5D5bjVLbs-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 20:51:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA12770 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:51:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12758 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:51:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id UAA04552; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id LAA08323; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:24:50 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971205112449.11991@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:24:49 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? References: <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com> <199712042008.NAA12858@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199712042008.NAA12858@usr09.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 08:08:39PM +0000 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 08:08:39PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> I'd second that. I had a Cyrix 686 about 6 months ago, and I ended up >> throwing it in the garbage.. I had overheating problems, strange >> system lock-ups, etc, etc.. It might have been the motherboard, or just >> bad settings or something - but I tried everything and it just wasn't >> reliable. If you're going to do non-Intel x86, I think I'd recomend the AMD >> K6 over the Cyrix CPUs. > > We had that same problem on Sean Eric Fagan's machine. > > Until we set the motherboard voltage jumper correctly. > > After which the problem went away. Ah yes. The c't article mentioned that. I noticed yesterday that some motherboards now claim to do auto voltage sensing, whatever that means. Is sef happy with his machine? What motherboard? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 21:15:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14996 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:15:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fletch.fix.net (root@fletch.fix.net [206.190.71.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14985 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:15:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wlarson@fix.net) Received: from fix.net (lts6-163.snlo.dialup.fix.net [207.114.149.163]) by fletch.fix.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24567 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:15:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34878E23.96CD55CE@fix.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:16:20 -0800 From: Will Larson Reply-To: wlarson@fix.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ThinkPad 360 keyboard wont work for install. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Help. Install program is not reading the keyboard properly, so I can't do anything. Using a remote terminal (my 68040 mac)I can reach the point where it tries to establish a PPP connection but then I run out of serial ports! I read the docs, searched the archives, discovered the secrets, downloaded the latest... and still I can't get my IBM ThinkPad 360c to work with the FreeBSD (2.5.5-RELEASE) install disk ("boot.flp"). The tpad.flp is not longer available as far as I can tell and someone told me that it's rolled into boot.flp now.. but not for my machine. -Will From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 22:04:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18909 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:04:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18903 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:04:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id WAA23987; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:06:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:06:37 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199712050606.WAA23987@dog.farm.org> To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Teeny-weeny /usr/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c patch Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199712050142.RAA11543@bubba.whistle.com> you wrote: > Jos Backus writes: > > *** ipfw.c.dist Fri Dec 5 01:29:49 1997 > > --- ipfw.c Fri Dec 5 01:30:20 1997 > > *************** > > *** 1197,1202 **** > > --- 1197,1203 ---- > > while (fgets(buf, BUFSIZ, f)) { > > > > lineno++; > > + if (buf[0]=='#'||buf[0]=='\n') continue; > > sprintf(linename, "Line %d", lineno); > > args[0] = linename; > > > > This allows comments/empty lines in a firewall rule file (when using the > > ``ipfw rulefile'' syntax), which seems pretty handy (at least to me -- > > documenting rules and all that). > Good idea! But may I suggest this tweak? So a blank line with extra > white space is OK too... > *** ipfw.c.orig Fri Dec 5 01:39:35 1997 > --- ipfw.c Fri Dec 5 01:40:33 1997 > *************** > *** 1200,1208 **** > --- 1200,1212 ---- > sprintf(linename, "Line %d", lineno); > args[0] = linename; > > + if (*buf == '#') > + continue; should probably become char *p; if ((p = strchr(buf, '#') != NULL) *p = 0; to handle lines like #indented comment or ipfw deny .... ... #end-of-line comment > for (i = 1, a = strtok(buf, WHITESP); > a && i < MAX_ARGS; a = strtok(NULL, WHITESP), i++) > args[i] = a; > + if (i == 1) > + continue; > if (i == MAX_ARGS) > errx(1, "%s: too many arguments", linename); > args[i] = NULL; -- "'Programming' is a four-letter word." --Craig Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 22:49:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23179 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:49:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23168 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:49:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.7/3.6Wbeta6-ntc_mailserver1.03) id PAA18315; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:02:54 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:02:54 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199712050602.PAA18315@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> To: wlarson@fix.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: ThinkPad 360 keyboard wont work for install. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:16:20 -0800". <34878E23.96CD55CE@fix.net> From: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <34878E23.96CD55CE@fix.net> wlarson@fix.net writes: >> I read the docs, searched the archives, discovered the secrets, >> downloaded the latest... and still I can't get my IBM ThinkPad 360c to >> work with the FreeBSD (2.5.5-RELEASE) install disk ("boot.flp"). Try: boot: -c flags sc0 1 quit -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi Network Technology Center Keio University hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 4 23:50:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28703 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from super.zippo.com (perry.zippo.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28695 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:50:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reyesf@super.zippo.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by super.zippo.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) id XAA25888; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:50:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712050750.XAA25888@super.zippo.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 02:50:07 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Why so many steps to build new kernel? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering if there would be any problems with creating a script for some of the steps of building a new kernel. What if any would be the problem with having a script which does: config kern1 cd ../../kern1 make depend make all make install If such script was created it should check the return code of the make command to make sure there were no problems. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 00:16:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA00822 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:16:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA00811 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id AAA24025; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:16:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id QAA01777; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:13:42 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971205161339.59500@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:13:39 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712050750.XAA25888@super.zippo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199712050750.XAA25888@super.zippo.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 02:50:07AM -0400 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 02:50:07AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I was wondering if there would be any problems with creating a script > for some of the steps of building a new kernel. What if any would be > the problem with having a script which does: > > config kern1 > cd ../../kern1 > make depend > make all > make install Why not? Of course, you could simplify it. > If such script was created it should check the return code of the > make command to make sure there were no problems. You wouldn't need to do that if you wrote: make config depend all install Better still, you could make a target 'world' which did this for you, including the cd's and configs in your original version. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 00:19:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01132 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:19:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01081 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11044; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:18:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971205001855.20597@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:18:55 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712050750.XAA25888@super.zippo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199712050750.XAA25888@super.zippo.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 02:50:07AM -0400 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Francisco Reyes scribbled this message on Dec 5: > I was wondering if there would be any problems with creating a script > for some of the steps of building a new kernel. What if any would be > the problem with having a script which does: > > config kern1 > cd ../../kern1 > make depend > make all > make install > > If such script was created it should check the return code of the > make command to make sure there were no problems. what's so hard about typing this? and how about: config kern1 && cd ../../kern1 && make depend && make all && make install also, if you get fancy, you could replace kern1 with $1.. but of course, what about when you want to pass -n to config, and -j4 to make all? it's not hard to type yourself... plus, there are to many varibles... also, make depend isn't needed if you don't config -n the kernel, (unless you do a -j4 on the kernel build)... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 00:54:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA03820 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:54:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03812 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:54:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11284; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:54:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971205005430.09155@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:54:30 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Greg Lehey Cc: Francisco Reyes , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712050750.XAA25888@super.zippo.com> <19971205161339.59500@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19971205161339.59500@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:13:39PM +0800 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey scribbled this message on Dec 5: > On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 02:50:07AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > I was wondering if there would be any problems with creating a script > > for some of the steps of building a new kernel. What if any would be > > the problem with having a script which does: > > > > config kern1 > > cd ../../kern1 > > make depend > > make all > > make install > > Why not? Of course, you could simplify it. > > > If such script was created it should check the return code of the > > make command to make sure there were no problems. > > You wouldn't need to do that if you wrote: > > make config depend all install > > Better still, you could make a target 'world' which did this for you, > including the cd's and configs in your original version. hmm... where is this config target for make?? just checked my -current kernel source tree and see no config target... also, how do you propose to handle the directory tree being removed and recreated out from under you when config runs? (hmm... something like exec'ing make after the config phase might work...) -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 01:05:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA04592 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA04581 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:05:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id BAA27836; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:05:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id RAA01863; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:03:54 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971205170352.42121@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:03:52 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Francisco Reyes , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712050750.XAA25888@super.zippo.com> <19971205161339.59500@lemis.com> <19971205005430.09155@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19971205005430.09155@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 12:54:30AM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 12:54:30AM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Greg Lehey scribbled this message on Dec 5: >> On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 02:50:07AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >>> I was wondering if there would be any problems with creating a script >>> for some of the steps of building a new kernel. What if any would be >>> the problem with having a script which does: >>> >>> config kern1 >>> cd ../../kern1 >>> make depend >>> make all >>> make install >> >> Why not? Of course, you could simplify it. >> >>> If such script was created it should check the return code of the >>> make command to make sure there were no problems. >> >> You wouldn't need to do that if you wrote: >> >> make config depend all install >> >> Better still, you could make a target 'world' which did this for you, >> including the cd's and configs in your original version. > > hmm... where is this config target for make?? just checked my -current > kernel source tree and see no config target... > > also, how do you propose to handle the directory tree being removed and > recreated out from under you when config runs? (hmm... something like > exec'ing make after the config phase might work...) That's left as an exercise to the reader. OK, what the hell, something like: KERNEL = DEFAULT CONF = /usr/src/sys/i386/conf COMPILE = /usr/src/sys/compile world: config depend build install config: ${CONF}/${KERNEL} cd ${CONF} config -g -n ${KERNEL} depend: ${COMPILE}/${KERNEL} cd ${COMPILE}; make depend all build: ${COMPILE}/${KERNEL} cd ${COMPILE}; make all install: ${COMPILE}/${KERNEL} cd ${COMPILE}; make install If you want to build a different kernel, you specify the name to make: make world KERNEL=FOOBAR What have I left out? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 01:45:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07824 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:45:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07817 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.10-nospam) with ESMTP id KAA27403; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:43:39 +0100 (MET) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id KAA03583; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:43:35 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971205104335.KF17057@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:43:35 +0100 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: mark@vmunix.com (Mark Mayo) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? References: <19971204134739.07060@lemis.com> <199712040735.IAA04646@sos.freebsd.dk> <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19971204134503.49496@vmunix.com>; from Mark Mayo on Dec 4, 1997 13:45:03 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Mark Mayo: > I'd agree with Soren though - the Pentium Pro 180's are a real bargain > right now. I know they're about $325 CAN (~$230 US). Plus, you can > safely overclock them to 200, or even 233 or 240 if you're lucky - Intel > is having high yields these days, According to Tom's hardware guide, it looks like Intel wants to put an end to overclocking (and re-marked processors): their now disable the frequency multiplier pins, preventing you from overclocking the processor (their yields are so good most of their parts come out with the highest speeds, while there's still a market for lower speed parts...). -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 01:51:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08347 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:51:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from atena.eurocontrol.fr (atena.uneec.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.69.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA08328 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr) Received: by atena.eurocontrol.fr; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA25320; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:51:10 +0100 Received: from brteec1 (brteec1.eurocontrol.fr) by eurocontrol.fr with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA222085179; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:46:19 +0100 Received: by brteec1 with Microsoft Mail id <34884C38@brteec1>; Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:47:20 PST From: BRUN Philippe To: FREEBSD Cc: "ROBERT Ollivier, U:" Subject: hole in the memory Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:41:00 PST Message-Id: <34884C38@brteec1> Encoding: 18 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My pc has 32 Mbyte of RAM I have 3 isa cards mapped beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb I want to create a hole in the system memory to use isa card Ram How do I proceed under BDS TIA --------------------------------------------------------- Philippe BRUN EEC BP15 F-91222 Bretigny s/Orge Cedex France Tel:+33 01 69 88 72 78 Fax:+33 01 69 88 73 33 e-mail: philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 01:54:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08704 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:54:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08697 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:54:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07935; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:54:39 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712050954.KAA07935@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-Reply-To: <19971205104335.KF17057@mars.hsc.fr> from Pierre Beyssac at "Dec 5, 97 10:43:35 am" To: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:54:33 +0100 (MET) Cc: mark@vmunix.com, sos@FreeBSD.dk, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Pierre Beyssac who wrote: > According to Mark Mayo: > > I'd agree with Soren though - the Pentium Pro 180's are a real bargain > > right now. I know they're about $325 CAN (~$230 US). Plus, you can > > safely overclock them to 200, or even 233 or 240 if you're lucky - Intel > > is having high yields these days, > > According to Tom's hardware guide, it looks like Intel wants to put > an end to overclocking (and re-marked processors): their now disable > the frequency multiplier pins, preventing you from overclocking the > processor (their yields are so good most of their parts come out > with the highest speeds, while there's still a market for lower > speed parts...). Ha, that wont work on the P6/180, as you just up the bus freq. from 60 to 66 Mhz to get a 200 :), so unless the mess up the pll in the multiplier so it only works within significantly less than 10% of the rated speed.... (and that might be tricky)... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 02:09:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09859 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:09:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from omnix.net (root@omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09854; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:09:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by omnix.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA17199; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:09:18 GMT Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:09:18 +0100 (CET) From: Didier Derny To: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: HELP! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm really sorry to disturb you with this message but I need a urgent help to configure a cisco 1600 router. I'm trying to connect a small network to internet through a ISDN connection (128Kb 2 B channels) I've the following data. - the router is a Cisco 1603 with 1 BRI S/T interface. - IOS 11.2 - Phone number: 0561163290 - Login: omnix - Password: xxxxx - Network: 194.149.170.24/29 (255.255.255.248) - Routeur: 194.149.170.25 - Default route: 194.149.170.1 - Primary DNS: 194.149.160.9 - Secondary DNS: 194.149.160.2 This router will be used to broadcast (video+sound with realaudio) the annual congres of a teacher union on: www.fsu.fr I know that this message is not related to freebsd. Thanks for your help. -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 02:33:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11718 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:33:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11707 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA28195; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:33:29 -0800 (PST) To: sos@FreeBSD.dk cc: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac), mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:54:33 +0100." <199712050954.KAA07935@sos.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 02:33:28 -0800 Message-ID: <28191.881318008@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ha, that wont work on the P6/180, as you just up the bus freq. from > 60 to 66 Mhz to get a 200 :), so unless the mess up the pll in the > multiplier so it only works within significantly less than 10% of > the rated speed.... (and that might be tricky)... You can also do this with the PII, reportedly up to 83Mhz bus speed on the Asus Mobo. But you also don't need to do this with the P6/180 as we've already established that it overclocks just fine and isn't a part likely to ever be affected by this practice of Intel's since they'll just phase the part out before it ever becomes economical enough to hobble the higher speed parts to 180Mhz. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 02:34:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11873 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:34:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.iosys.net (mail.iosys.net [207.67.20.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11861; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:34:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadawui@hatterasinlet.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:34:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from 208.11.179.72 by mail.iosys.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id YGXLZQ7V; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:30:05 -0600 To: nadawui@hatterasinlet.com From: nadawui@hatterasinlet.com (Barrier Island Realty) Comments: Authenticated sender is Reply-to: hatterasinlet.com Subject: Complimentary 3 day 2 night stay on the Outer Banks... Message-Id: <199712043400YAA35290@sample.kryan.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We at Barrier Island Invite you and your spouse for a Complimentary 3 day 2 night stay on the Outer Banks... FREE Vacation Offer! http://www.bistation.com/bi-inquiry.htm For the Ultimate vacation Experience.....Discover the Outer Banks Please visit our website at http://www.bistation.com for more information. Call 1-800-237-5177 or email darjon@interpath.com Thank you for your time. If you would like to be removed from our list please type remove in the subject or in the bi-inquiry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 03:25:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA15614 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:25:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-49.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA15598 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:24:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id DAA05197; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:24:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:24:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712051124.DAA05197@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: sos@FreeBSD.dk, Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <28191.881318008@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * the Asus Mobo. But you also don't need to do this with the P6/180 as Well, right now there is only one P6 as far as multiplier is concerned (180/200 are both 3x chips) so I don't even know why it's an issue here. But for some reason, Intel decided not to disable the 3.5x or 4x (has anyone used this?) multiplier settings. Real shame, too; if they didn't have to pretend that the PII is faster, they could have sold a P6-233 or P6-266 (officially). Apparently, they're fooling no one; recently the PII-233 (512K)'s price dipped below the P6-200 (256K) in the Silicon Valley. (I'm sure people who bought the PII-233 when they came out are very pleased. :> ) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 04:02:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18647 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:02:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18635 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:02:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08233; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:01:29 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712051201.NAA08233@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-Reply-To: <199712051124.DAA05197@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from Satoshi Asami at "Dec 5, 97 03:24:39 am" To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:01:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, sos@FreeBSD.dk, Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Satoshi Asami who wrote: > * the Asus Mobo. But you also don't need to do this with the P6/180 as > > Well, right now there is only one P6 as far as multiplier is concerned > (180/200 are both 3x chips) so I don't even know why it's an issue > here. But for some reason, Intel decided not to disable the 3.5x or > 4x (has anyone used this?) multiplier settings. Actually both 3.5 & 4 works on both my P6's :), it wont run 266Mhz though but 240Mhz (4*60) works just fine ... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 04:08:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19095 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:08:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19085 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:08:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA29003; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:07:22 -0800 (PST) To: sos@FreeBSD.dk cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami), Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:01:28 +0100." <199712051201.NAA08233@sos.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 04:07:22 -0800 Message-ID: <28999.881323642@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually both 3.5 & 4 works on both my P6's :), it wont run 266Mhz though > but 240Mhz (4*60) works just fine ... I wonder which is actually faster in practice. 233/66 or 240/60. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 04:11:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19329 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:11:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-49.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19323 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:10:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id EAA05336; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:10:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:10:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712051210.EAA05336@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: sos@FreeBSD.dk, Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <28999.881323642@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * I wonder which is actually faster in practice. 233/66 or 240/60. :-) No question, 233/66. (Unless you are running rc564, that is. :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 04:18:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19838 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:18:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from atena.eurocontrol.fr (atena.uneec.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.69.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA19799 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr) Received: by atena.eurocontrol.fr; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA27006; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:16:09 +0100 Received: from brteec1 (brteec1.eurocontrol.fr) by eurocontrol.fr with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA282403905; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:11:45 +0100 Received: by brteec1 with Microsoft Mail id <34886E4E@brteec1>; Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:12:46 PST From: BRUN Philippe To: FREEBSD Cc: ROBERT Ollivier Subject: Can I create a hole in memory map ? Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:06:00 PST Message-Id: <34886E4E@brteec1> Encoding: 18 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My pc has 32 Mbyte of RAM I have 3 isa cards mapped beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb I want to create a hole in the system memory to use isa card Ram How do I proceed under FREEBSD 2.2.5 TIA --------------------------------------------------------- Philippe BRUN EEC BP15 F-91222 Bretigny s/Orge Cedex France Tel:+33 01 69 88 72 78 Fax:+33 01 69 88 73 33 e-mail: philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 04:18:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19969 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:18:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19943 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:18:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08267; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:18:27 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712051218.NAA08267@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-Reply-To: <28999.881323642@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 5, 97 04:07:22 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:18:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > > Actually both 3.5 & 4 works on both my P6's :), it wont run 266Mhz though > > but 240Mhz (4*60) works just fine ... > > I wonder which is actually faster in practice. 233/66 or 240/60. :-) Depends, if you have cpu intensive tasks 240 is the fastest, else there is not much difference: 233=57mins35secs 240=57mins23secs worldstones... It seems the P6 is not that bus speed dependent.. I'll have a go on 75Mhz bus soon... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 05:00:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA23228 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:00:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [193.117.77.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA23213 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:00:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15975; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:55:58 GMT Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA27353; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:01:11 GMT Message-ID: <19971205130110.60137@iii.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:01:10 +0000 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Francisco Reyes , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712050750.XAA25888@super.zippo.com> <19971205161339.59500@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19971205161339.59500@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:13:39PM +0800 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:13:39PM +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: > You wouldn't need to do that if you wrote: > > make config depend all install I don't think you want to do it quite like that. If my memory is correct, the .depend files created by the 'depend' target will not be used by make for the 'all' target. You need to run 'depend' and 'all' in two seperate makes. BICBW. I normally do; % cd /sys/compile/KERNEL % make clean depend; make -j 4 all; make install N -- --+==[ Nik Clayton is Just Another Perl Hacker at Interactive Investor ]==+-- It is easier to seek forgiveness than permission From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 06:04:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA27799 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27777 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:04:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28373; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:53:04 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19971205155304.08580@csir.co.za> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:53:04 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, Satoshi Asami , Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? References: <199712051201.NAA08233@sos.freebsd.dk> <28999.881323642@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <28999.881323642@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:07:22AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:07:22AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Actually both 3.5 & 4 works on both my P6's :), it wont run 266Mhz though > > but 240Mhz (4*60) works just fine ... > > I wonder which is actually faster in practice. 233/66 or 240/60. :-) On my P5-166: 225/75... couldn't get it to run with a 83MHz bus. This is an Asus TX97-E board. Very nice piece of hardware for the quality concious low-end user. See http://www.tomshardware.com/ (was http://sysdoc.pair.com/) for a really good write-up on overclocking and bus speeds. -Jeremy -- .sig.gz From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 06:46:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA00988 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA00979 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:46:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA14203; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:45:35 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:45:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: a strange problem with slices, 3.0-current, and disks Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a western digital IDE 3.2 GB disk that has three dos partitions, which I want to blast to zeros and have be all-freebsd. With the normal interactive install this works fine: I can dedicate the disk to freebsd, and the dos parts get blasted and I end up with a nicely freebsd-dedicated disk. In the past when not using the interactive install I have been able to use disklabel on non-dos-partitioned disks to set them up as freebsd disks, using disklabel -f with a file I have set up for this purpose. But: I can't get this dos-partitioned disk written on 3.0-current! For example, what doesn't work is the following: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rwd0 bs=512 count=128. dd reports one block in, zero out. The kernel prints three messages of the form: wd0s1: type 0x6, start 63, end=4193279, size=4193217: OK wd0s2: .... different start and end and size: OK wd0s5: ... different start and end and size: OK The kernel prints these messages every time I do anything to the disk. (read, write, whatever). I also can not dd if=/dev/rwd0 | od -xc | more dd gets an immediate EOF! rwd0 is not functioning as it used to. fdisk can't do anything with this disk either. What appears to be happening is that any reference to rwd0 is somehow being redirected to the 4th partition on the disk, which is the only unused one, and which is also zero bytes long: immediate error. I'm now very confused, and I hate to drop this on hackers, but: 1) questions has resulted in only one (non-working) answer 2) This looks like a bug, or at least a big change in How Things Work one more question: how does the install tool do it? how does the install tool blast the dos partitions, where is the ezboot that it loads onto the disk, and how does it get ezboot there? The install tool does not appear to use fdisk/disklabel, or if it does, it's using them in a way I don't get. thanks ron Ron Minnich |Java: an operating-system-independent, rminnich@sarnoff.com |architecture-independent programming language (609)-734-3120 |for Windows/95 and Windows/NT on the Pentium ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 06:54:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA01661 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:54:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from super.zippo.com (perry.zippo.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA01655 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:54:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reyesf@super.zippo.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by super.zippo.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) id GAA24838; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:53:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712051453.GAA24838@super.zippo.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Greg Lehey" Cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 09:53:28 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:13:39 +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: >> I was wondering if there would be any problems with creating a script >> for some of the steps of building a new kernel. >> config kern1 >> cd ../../kern1 >> make depend >> make all >> make install >Why not? Of course, you could simplify it. The end user (ie me) gains nothing by typing more. On my new computer it doesn't take all that long, but I remember on my previous one things would take forever. The problem with running each line individually is that you can not start it before you go to bed and come and get the results in the morning. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 07:14:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA03873 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:14:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA03867 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:13:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25825; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA00892; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:13:51 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:13:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199712051513.IAA00892@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: wlarson@fix.net Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ThinkPad 360 keyboard wont work for install. In-Reply-To: <34878E23.96CD55CE@fix.net> References: <34878E23.96CD55CE@fix.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I read the docs, searched the archives, discovered the secrets, > downloaded the latest... and still I can't get my IBM ThinkPad 360c to > work with the FreeBSD (2.5.5-RELEASE) install disk ("boot.flp"). What secret did you learn? If you read the RELEASE notes that came with the system, you should have known that if you add the flags 0x10 to the sc0 device it will work fine. Are the RELEASE NOTES not distributed separately from the boot disk? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 07:24:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04929 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA04920 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:24:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA14576; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:24:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:24:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a strange problem with slices, 3.0-current, and disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > For example, what doesn't work is the following: > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rwd0 bs=512 count=128. > dd reports one block in, zero out. > The kernel prints three messages of the form: > wd0s1: type 0x6, start 63, end=4193279, size=4193217: OK > wd0s2: .... different start and end and size: OK > wd0s5: ... different start and end and size: OK OK, I just got part of this problem. Our cd writer is on a linux box, and the special minor number for wd0 got truncated from 0x10002 to 2. What's interesting is that this never caused trouble until we hit a dos-partitioned disk, i.e. all the failures I'm having I never had on an unitialized disk. interesting. Wish I could have convinced the vendor to leave the disks untouched. For those of you writing CDs: run mkisofs on a freebsd box! The other question remains. Where does ezboot come from? ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 07:53:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA07786 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:53:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from crocus.gamma.ru (crocus.gamma.ru [193.124.255.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA07760 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:53:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ivt@crocus.gamma.ru) Received: (from ivt@localhost) by crocus.gamma.ru (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA00865 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:53:14 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199712051553.SAA00865@crocus.gamma.ru> Subject: panic: blkfree: freeling free block/frag To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:53:14 +0300 (MSK) From: "Igor Timkin" Organization: Gamma Ltd., Moscow, Russia X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Every 4-8 days my news server (~10 full incoming feeds, ~50 outgoing feeds) crash: panic: blkfree: freeing free block or panic: blkfree: freeing free frag I have a P6-200 rinning on a ASUS P65UP5+C-P6ND (BIOS rev. 2.05), with 512M ECC of RAM (with David Greenman patch). news spool is 6x4G Barracuda (ST15150W) CCD across two 2940UW. /etc/ccd.conf: ccd0 65536 0 /dev/sd8a /dev/sd5a /dev/sd9a /dev/sd10a /dev/sd6a /dev/sd7a /etc/fstab: # Device Mountpoint FStype Options Dump Pass# /dev/sd1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/sd0a / ufs rw 1 1 /dev/sd0d /tmp ufs rw,async 1 1 /dev/sd0e /usr ufs rw 1 2 /dev/sd0f /usr/local ufs rw 1 2 /dev/sd1a /usr/local/news ufs rw,noatime 1 2 /dev/sd0g /var ufs rw,userquota 1 2 /dev/ccd0c /var/spool/news ufs rw,async,noatime,noexec,nosuid 0 2 /dev/sd4a /var/ftp ufs rw,noatime,nosuid 1 2 /dev/sd2e /var/ftp/.1 ufs rw,noatime,noexec,nosuid 1 2 /dev/sd3a /var/ftp/.3 ufs rw,noatime,noexec,nosuid 1 2 crocus:/home /home nfs rw 0 0 proc /proc procfs rw 0 0 This server is also ftp server (ftp2.ru.freebsd.org). ftp disks are nfs exported. Last crash (Dec 5, 13:15): dev=0x1502, block=20372, fs=/var/spool/news panic: blkfree: freeing free frag syncing disk (unfortunately at this point the system is freeze and I have make the hardware reset, so I don't have crash dump). fsck -y: ** /dev/rccd0c ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT I=290409 (44 should be 0) CORRECT? yes 15195768 DUP I=437869 15195769 DUP I=437869 15195770 DUP I=437869 15195771 DUP I=437869 15195772 DUP I=437869 15195773 DUP I=437869 15195774 DUP I=437869 15195775 DUP I=437869 ** Phase 1b - Rescan For More DUPS 15195768 DUP I=346079 15195769 DUP I=346079 15195770 DUP I=346079 15195771 DUP I=346079 15195772 DUP I=346079 15195773 DUP I=346079 15195774 DUP I=346079 15195775 DUP I=346079 ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames DUP/BAD I=346079 OWNER=news MODE=100664 SIZE=166129 MTIME=Dec 4 11:57 1997 FILE=/alt/binaries/pictures/erotica/facials/428492 REMOVE? yes DUP/BAD I=437869 OWNER=news MODE=100664 SIZE=240773 MTIME=Dec 3 10:32 1997 FILE=/alt/mag/playboy/362582 REMOVE? yes ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts LINK COUNT FILE I=290409 OWNER=news MODE=100664 SIZE=0 MTIME=Dec 5 13:15 1997 COUNT 0 SHOULD BE 1 ADJUST? yes DUP/BAD I=346079 OWNER=news MODE=100664 SIZE=166129 MTIME=Dec 4 11:57 1997 CLEAR? yes DUP/BAD I=437869 OWNER=news MODE=100664 SIZE=240773 MTIME=Dec 3 10:32 1997 CLEAR? yes ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLOCK SALVAGE? yes BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS SALVAGE? yes SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD SALVAGE? yes CLEAN FLAG NOT SET IN SUPERBLOCK FIX? yes strings /kernel | grep ^___ | sed s/^___//: # # NEWS -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # $Id: NEWS,v 1.46.2.6 1995/10/25 17:29:51 jkh Exp $ # machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" cpu "I686_CPU" ident NEWS maxusers 256 config kernel root on sd0 options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE # Include this file in kernel #options "MAXMEM=(512*1024)" options "DFLDSIZ=(160UL*1024*1024)" options "MAXDSIZ=(256UL*1024*1024)" options "NBUF=12288" #options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 ## options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console # # These three options provide support for System V Interface # Definition-style interprocess communication, in the form of shared # memory, semaphores, and message queues, respectively. # options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem #options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem #options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem #options PROCFS #Process filesystem #options MFS #Memory Filesystem options QUOTA #Enables disk quotas options "CHILD_MAX=256" options "OPEN_MAX=256" #options DDB #Enable the kernel debugger. options KTRACE #Enable the system call trace facility. options INET #InterNETworking #options MROUTING #Multicat routing #options IPFIREWALL #firewall #options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about dropped packets #options IPACCT #ipaccounting #options ARP_PROXYALL #global proxy ARP options "AUTO_EOI1" controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 #disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 #tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 #controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr #disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 #controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 #controller ncr0 options AHC_TAGENABLE options AHC_SCBPAGING_ENABLE options AHC_ALLOW_MEMIO controller ahc0 #controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr #controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr #controller ahc1 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahcintr #controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr #controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr #controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr #controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr #controller nca1 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr #controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr options "SCSI_DELAY=3" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device controller scbus0 device sd0 #device st0 #device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows #options SCSIDEBUG #options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 vector mcdintr #device mcd1 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector mcdintr #controller matcd0 at isa? port ? bio #device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" iosiz 0x0 flags 0x0 irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr #device sio2 at isa? port "IO_COM3" tty irq 5 vector siointr #device sio3 at isa? port "IO_COM4" tty irq 9 vector siointr #device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr #device lpt1 at isa? port? tty #device lpt2 at isa? port? tty # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. #device de0 device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ie0 at isa? port 0x360 net irq 7 iomem 0xd0000 vector ieintr #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr #device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 vector le_intr #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device lnc1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector zpintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether #pseudo-device sl 1 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device #pseudo-device ppp 1 #pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device bpfilter 2 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device gzip #Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device log pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device snp 2 pseudo-device vn pseudo-device speaker pseudo-device ccd 2 #Concatenated disk driver dmesg: Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE #1: Wed Nov 26 01:52:14 MSK 1997 ivt@news.gamma.ru:/usr/src/sys/compile/NEWS CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 Features=0xfbff,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV> real memory = 536870912 (524288K bytes) avail memory = 522248192 (510008K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 1 on pci0:1:0 chip2 rev 0 on pci0:1:1 ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:9 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc0: target 1 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc0:1:0): "WDIGTL ENTERPRISE 1.80" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 2077MB (4254819 512 byte sectors) Sending SDTR!! ahc0: target 2 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc0:2:0): "WDIGTL ENTERPRISE 1.61" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:2:0): Direct-Access 2077MB (4254819 512 byte sectors) ahc1 rev 0 int a irq 12 on pci0:10 ahc1: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs ahc1 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc1: target 0 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc1:0:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0020" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(ahc1:0:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) ahc1:A:4: refuses WIDE negotiation. Using 8bit transfers ahc1: target 4 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc1:4:0): "IBM DCAS-34330 S60B" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd3(ahc1:4:0): Direct-Access 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors) ahc1: target 5 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc1:5:0): "SEAGATE ST15230N 0298" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd4(ahc1:5:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8386733 512 byte sectors) vga0 rev 67 int a irq 10 on pci0:11 ahc2 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 ahc2: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs ahc2 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc2: target 11 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc2:11:0): "DEC RZ29B (C) DEC 0014" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd5(ahc2:11:0): Direct-Access 4091MB (8380080 512 byte sectors) ahc2: target 14 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc2:14:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0023" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd6(ahc2:14:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) ahc2: target 15 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc2:15:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0023" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd7(ahc2:15:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) ahc3 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:13 ahc3: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs ahc3 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc3: target 10 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc3:10:0): "DEC RZ29B (C) DEC 0014" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd8(ahc3:10:0): Direct-Access 4091MB (8380080 512 byte sectors) ahc3: target 12 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc3:12:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0023" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd9(ahc3:12:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) ahc3: target 13 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc3:13:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0023" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd10(ahc3:13:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 msize 16384 on isa ed0: address 00:00:c0:a4:2e:61, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ccd0-1: Concatenated disk drivers WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. Any suggestion ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 08:12:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA09568 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:12:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA09552 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:12:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA22039; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:13:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971205111322.24417@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:13:22 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, Satoshi Asami , Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? References: <199712051201.NAA08233@sos.freebsd.dk> <28999.881323642@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <28999.881323642@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:07:22AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:07:22AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Actually both 3.5 & 4 works on both my P6's :), it wont run 266Mhz though > > but 240Mhz (4*60) works just fine ... > > I wonder which is actually faster in practice. 233/66 or 240/60. :-) Although instinct would tend to say that 233/66 would be faster, results from Tom's seem to indicate that 240/60 is actually faster.. I think they are very close though, and I think I'd rather run 233/66 than 240/60 :-) (it's a tough world, ain't it? ;-)) -Mark > > Jordan -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 08:32:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11049 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:32:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [207.105.15.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11010; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@Shockwave.COM) Received: (from pst@localhost) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16546; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:31:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:31:32 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Traina Message-Id: <199712051631.IAA16546@precipice.shockwave.com> To: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: metricom & freebsd Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone done a Metricom star mode driver for FreeBSD? (Star mode is the higher speed packet-oriented mode, Linux has a driver). From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 08:36:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11578 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:36:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from argus.tfs.net (as1-p17.tfs.net [139.146.205.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11570 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:36:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA00329; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:13:55 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712051613.KAA00329@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? In-Reply-To: <199712051453.GAA24838@super.zippo.com> from Francisco Reyes at "Dec 5, 97 09:53:28 am" To: reyesf@super.zippo.com Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:13:54 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:13:39 +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >> I was wondering if there would be any problems with creating a script > >> for some of the steps of building a new kernel. > >> config kern1 > >> cd ../../kern1 > >> make depend > >> make all > >> make install > > >Why not? Of course, you could simplify it. > > The end user (ie me) gains nothing by typing more. On my new computer > it doesn't take all that long, but I remember on my previous one > things would take forever. The problem with running each line > individually is that you can not start it before you go to bed and > come and get the results in the morning. this is a little more extravagant than i do [i usually do a simplified version of the folling by hand], but it will allow you to do what you want. don't be running anything important other than this when you go to bed, note the reboot into the new kernel... of course, if you end up in a boot panic, your box will be rebooting all night, over and over again... #!/bin/sh ############################################################## # buildkernel # # usage: buildkernel CONFIGFILE # # build a new kernel, install it, and reboot. # persistant logfile of build is kept in /usr/src/sys/make.out # ############################################################## cd /usr/src/sys/i386/conf ; \ config $1 >&/usr/src/sys/make.out ; \ cd ../../compile/$1 ; \ make depend >>& /usr/src/sys/make.out ; \ make all >>& /usr/src/sys/make.out ; \ mv /kernel /kernel.backup ; \ mv kernel \ ; \ reboot & ############################################################## jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 08:56:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA13127 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:56:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13120 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:56:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26108; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from localhost (ejs@localhost) by harlie.bfd.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA29244; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: harlie.bfd.com: ejs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Satoshi Asami cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, sos@FreeBSD.dk, Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? In-Reply-To: <199712051124.DAA05197@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Satoshi Asami wrote: > Apparently, they're fooling no one; recently the PII-233 (512K)'s > price dipped below the P6-200 (256K) in the Silicon Valley. (I'm sure > people who bought the PII-233 when they came out are very pleased. :> ) >From my supplier, the PII-266 is cheaper than the P6-200. ($520 vs $537 USD) Admittedly not the best prices you'll find though. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 09:38:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17342 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17320 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14986; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971205093805.56784@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:05 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Francisco Reyes Cc: Greg Lehey , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712051453.GAA24838@super.zippo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199712051453.GAA24838@super.zippo.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 09:53:28AM -0400 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Francisco Reyes scribbled this message on Dec 5: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:13:39 +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >> I was wondering if there would be any problems with creating a script > >> for some of the steps of building a new kernel. > >> config kern1 > >> cd ../../kern1 > >> make depend > >> make all > >> make install > > >Why not? Of course, you could simplify it. > > The end user (ie me) gains nothing by typing more. On my new computer > it doesn't take all that long, but I remember on my previous one > things would take forever. The problem with running each line > individually is that you can not start it before you go to bed and > come and get the results in the morning. why not simply use the && pipeline operator for this?? this is what it is most commonly used for... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 09:43:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17929 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA17907 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:43:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xe1mI-00011F-00; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:43:02 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA11056; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:41:49 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712051741.KAA11056@harmony.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? Cc: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly), hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:57:48 PST." <28908.881294268@time.cdrom.com> References: <28908.881294268@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:41:49 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <28908.881294268@time.cdrom.com> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: : Heck no, I delete stuff like that. Doesn't stop me from making all : the wild claims I want to though, haha! ;-) I can tell I'm being too conservative on my overclocking :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 09:48:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18499 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:48:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18489; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:48:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA06582; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:47:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:47:55 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: Paul Traina cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd In-Reply-To: <199712051631.IAA16546@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Traina wrote: > Has anyone done a Metricom star mode driver for FreeBSD? > (Star mode is the higher speed packet-oriented mode, Linux has a driver). Is there even a starmode driver for Windows? I'm using plain-old Dial Up on my Win95 laptop. If you want to try and hack something I'll volunteer to test it. I wonder if i[ij][ij]ppp would be a good place to start; tun0 seems like a good target interface. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 10:02:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19694 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:02:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [207.105.15.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19688; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:02:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19096; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Message-Id: <199712051801.KAA19096@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Doug White cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:47:55 PST." Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:01:29 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Doug White Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Traina wrote: > Has anyone done a Metricom star mode driver for FreeBSD? > (Star mode is the higher speed packet-oriented mode, Linux has a driver). Is there even a starmode driver for Windows? I'm using plain-old Dial Up on my Win95 laptop. No. If you want to try and hack something I'll volunteer to test it. I wonder if i[ij][ij]ppp would be a good place to start; tun0 seems like a good target interface. Yes, iijppp is a good place to test it out. Unfortunately I have neither the time nor the spare group of modems to actually write and debug it. I was asking more for curiosity sake. It's too bad Metricom doesn't offer IP over STAR mode as a service, that would immediately make it interesting. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 10:25:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21751 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:25:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21738 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:25:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA02898; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:26:38 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma002895; Fri, 5 Dec 97 12:26:22 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:26:22 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Igor Timkin cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: blkfree: freeling free block/frag In-Reply-To: <199712051553.SAA00865@crocus.gamma.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a FreeBSD-INN list or something similar? There oughter be. I'd subscribe. Jacques Vidrine On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Igor Timkin wrote: > Every 4-8 days my news server (~10 full incoming feeds, ~50 > outgoing feeds) crash: > panic: blkfree: freeing free block > or > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > > I have a P6-200 rinning on a ASUS P65UP5+C-P6ND (BIOS rev. 2.05), > with 512M ECC of RAM (with David Greenman patch). > news spool is 6x4G Barracuda (ST15150W) CCD across two 2940UW. > /etc/ccd.conf: > ccd0 65536 0 /dev/sd8a /dev/sd5a /dev/sd9a /dev/sd10a /dev/sd6a /dev/sd7a > /etc/fstab: > # Device Mountpoint FStype Options Dump Pass# > /dev/sd1b none swap sw 0 0 > /dev/sd0a / ufs rw 1 1 > /dev/sd0d /tmp ufs rw,async 1 1 > /dev/sd0e /usr ufs rw 1 2 > /dev/sd0f /usr/local ufs rw 1 2 > /dev/sd1a /usr/local/news ufs rw,noatime 1 2 > /dev/sd0g /var ufs rw,userquota 1 2 > /dev/ccd0c /var/spool/news ufs rw,async,noatime,noexec,nosuid 0 2 > /dev/sd4a /var/ftp ufs rw,noatime,nosuid 1 2 > /dev/sd2e /var/ftp/.1 ufs rw,noatime,noexec,nosuid 1 2 > /dev/sd3a /var/ftp/.3 ufs rw,noatime,noexec,nosuid 1 2 > crocus:/home /home nfs rw 0 0 > proc /proc procfs rw 0 0 > > This server is also ftp server (ftp2.ru.freebsd.org). > ftp disks are nfs exported. > > Last crash (Dec 5, 13:15): > > dev=0x1502, block=20372, fs=/var/spool/news > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > syncing disk > (unfortunately at this point the system is freeze and I have > make the hardware reset, so I don't have crash dump). > > fsck -y: > ** /dev/rccd0c > ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes > INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT I=290409 (44 should be 0) > CORRECT? yes > > 15195768 DUP I=437869 > 15195769 DUP I=437869 > 15195770 DUP I=437869 > 15195771 DUP I=437869 > 15195772 DUP I=437869 > 15195773 DUP I=437869 > 15195774 DUP I=437869 > 15195775 DUP I=437869 > ** Phase 1b - Rescan For More DUPS > 15195768 DUP I=346079 > 15195769 DUP I=346079 > 15195770 DUP I=346079 > 15195771 DUP I=346079 > 15195772 DUP I=346079 > 15195773 DUP I=346079 > 15195774 DUP I=346079 > 15195775 DUP I=346079 > ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames > DUP/BAD I=346079 OWNER=news MODE=100664 > SIZE=166129 MTIME=Dec 4 11:57 1997 > FILE=/alt/binaries/pictures/erotica/facials/428492 > > REMOVE? yes > > DUP/BAD I=437869 OWNER=news MODE=100664 > SIZE=240773 MTIME=Dec 3 10:32 1997 > FILE=/alt/mag/playboy/362582 > > REMOVE? yes > > ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity > ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts > LINK COUNT FILE I=290409 OWNER=news MODE=100664 > SIZE=0 MTIME=Dec 5 13:15 1997 COUNT 0 SHOULD BE 1 > ADJUST? yes > > DUP/BAD I=346079 OWNER=news MODE=100664 > SIZE=166129 MTIME=Dec 4 11:57 1997 > CLEAR? yes > > DUP/BAD I=437869 OWNER=news MODE=100664 > SIZE=240773 MTIME=Dec 3 10:32 1997 > CLEAR? yes > > ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups > FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLOCK > SALVAGE? yes > > BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS > SALVAGE? yes > > SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD > SALVAGE? yes > > CLEAN FLAG NOT SET IN SUPERBLOCK > FIX? yes > > strings /kernel | grep ^___ | sed s/^___//: > # > # NEWS -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks > # > # $Id: NEWS,v 1.46.2.6 1995/10/25 17:29:51 jkh Exp $ > # > machine "i386" > cpu "I586_CPU" > cpu "I686_CPU" > ident NEWS > maxusers 256 > config kernel root on sd0 > options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE # Include this file in kernel > #options "MAXMEM=(512*1024)" > options "DFLDSIZ=(160UL*1024*1024)" > options "MAXDSIZ=(256UL*1024*1024)" > options "NBUF=12288" > #options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation > options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 > ## options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers > options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console > # > # These three options provide support for System V Interface > # Definition-style interprocess communication, in the form of shared > # memory, semaphores, and message queues, respectively. > # > options SYSVSHM > options SYSVSEM > options SYSVMSG > options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem > options NFS #Network Filesystem > #options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem > #options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem > #options PROCFS #Process filesystem > #options MFS #Memory Filesystem > options QUOTA #Enables disk quotas > options "CHILD_MAX=256" > options "OPEN_MAX=256" > #options DDB #Enable the kernel debugger. > options KTRACE #Enable the system call trace facility. > options INET #InterNETworking > #options MROUTING #Multicat routing > #options IPFIREWALL #firewall > #options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about dropped packets > #options IPACCT #ipaccounting > #options ARP_PROXYALL #global proxy ARP > options "AUTO_EOI1" > controller isa0 > controller pci0 > controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr > disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 > #disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 > #tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 > #controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr > #disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 > #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 > #controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr > #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 > #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 > #controller ncr0 > options AHC_TAGENABLE > options AHC_SCBPAGING_ENABLE > options AHC_ALLOW_MEMIO > controller ahc0 > #controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr > #controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr > #controller ahc1 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahcintr > #controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr > #controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr > #controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr > #controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr > #controller nca1 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr > #controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr > options "SCSI_DELAY=3" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device > controller scbus0 > device sd0 > #device st0 > #device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows > #options SCSIDEBUG > #options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY > #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr > #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 vector mcdintr > #device mcd1 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector mcdintr > #controller matcd0 at isa? port ? bio > #device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio > # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console > device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr > device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" iosiz 0x0 flags 0x0 irq 13 vector npxintr > device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr > device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr > #device sio2 at isa? port "IO_COM3" tty irq 5 vector siointr > #device sio3 at isa? port "IO_COM4" tty irq 9 vector siointr > #device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr > #device lpt1 at isa? port? tty > #device lpt2 at isa? port? tty > # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize > # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. > # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See > # revision 1.20 of this file. > #device de0 > device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr > #device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr > #device ie0 at isa? port 0x360 net irq 7 iomem 0xd0000 vector ieintr > #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr > #device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr > #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 vector le_intr > #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr > #device lnc1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr > #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr > #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector zpintr > pseudo-device loop > pseudo-device ether > #pseudo-device sl 1 > # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device > #pseudo-device ppp 1 > #pseudo-device tun 1 > pseudo-device bpfilter 2 #Berkeley packet filter > pseudo-device gzip #Exec gzipped a.out's > pseudo-device log > pseudo-device pty 16 > pseudo-device snp 2 > pseudo-device vn > pseudo-device speaker > pseudo-device ccd 2 #Concatenated disk driver > > > dmesg: > Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. > Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > > FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE #1: Wed Nov 26 01:52:14 MSK 1997 > ivt@news.gamma.ru:/usr/src/sys/compile/NEWS > CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) > Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 > Features=0xfbff,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV> > real memory = 536870912 (524288K bytes) > avail memory = 522248192 (510008K bytes) > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 > chip1 rev 1 on pci0:1:0 > chip2 rev 0 on pci0:1:1 > ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:9 > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle > ahc0: target 1 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc0:1:0): "WDIGTL ENTERPRISE 1.80" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd0(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 2077MB (4254819 512 byte sectors) > Sending SDTR!! > ahc0: target 2 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc0:2:0): "WDIGTL ENTERPRISE 1.61" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd1(ahc0:2:0): Direct-Access 2077MB (4254819 512 byte sectors) > ahc1 rev 0 int a irq 12 on pci0:10 > ahc1: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > ahc1 waiting for scsi devices to settle > ahc1: target 0 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc1:0:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0020" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd2(ahc1:0:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) > ahc1:A:4: refuses WIDE negotiation. Using 8bit transfers > ahc1: target 4 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc1:4:0): "IBM DCAS-34330 S60B" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd3(ahc1:4:0): Direct-Access 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors) > ahc1: target 5 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc1:5:0): "SEAGATE ST15230N 0298" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd4(ahc1:5:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8386733 512 byte sectors) > vga0 rev 67 int a irq 10 on pci0:11 > ahc2 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 > ahc2: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > ahc2 waiting for scsi devices to settle > ahc2: target 11 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc2:11:0): "DEC RZ29B (C) DEC 0014" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd5(ahc2:11:0): Direct-Access 4091MB (8380080 512 byte sectors) > ahc2: target 14 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc2:14:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0023" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd6(ahc2:14:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) > ahc2: target 15 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc2:15:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0023" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd7(ahc2:15:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) > ahc3 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:13 > ahc3: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > ahc3 waiting for scsi devices to settle > ahc3: target 10 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc3:10:0): "DEC RZ29B (C) DEC 0014" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd8(ahc3:10:0): Direct-Access 4091MB (8380080 512 byte sectors) > ahc3: target 12 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc3:12:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0023" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd9(ahc3:12:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) > ahc3: target 13 Tagged Queuing Device > (ahc3:13:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0023" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd10(ahc3:13:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) > Probing for devices on the ISA bus: > sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard > sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 msize 16384 on isa > ed0: address 00:00:c0:a4:2e:61, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) > sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa > sio0: type 16550A > sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa > sio1: type 16550A > fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa > fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold > fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in > npx0 on motherboard > npx0: INT 16 interface > ccd0-1: Concatenated disk drivers > WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. > > Any suggestion ? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 10:52:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24336 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA24324; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (dialin1.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.254.101]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA07329; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:51:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:51:24 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: Paul Traina cc: Doug White , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd In-Reply-To: <199712051801.KAA19096@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could anyone explain what STAR mode is? On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Traina wrote: > > From: Doug White > Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Traina wrote: > > > Has anyone done a Metricom star mode driver for FreeBSD? > > (Star mode is the higher speed packet-oriented mode, Linux has a driver). > > Is there even a starmode driver for Windows? I'm using plain-old Dial Up > on my Win95 laptop. > > No. > > If you want to try and hack something I'll volunteer to test it. I wonder > if i[ij][ij]ppp would be a good place to start; tun0 seems like a good > target interface. > > Yes, iijppp is a good place to test it out. Unfortunately I have > neither the time nor the spare group of modems to actually write > and debug it. I was asking more for curiosity sake. It's too bad > Metricom doesn't offer IP over STAR mode as a service, that would > immediately make it interesting. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 11:00:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25202 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:00:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cx25450-a.dt1.sdca.home.com (cx25450-a.dt1.sdca.home.com [24.0.129.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25151; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schwarz@cx25450-a.dt1.sdca.home.com) Received: (from schwarz@localhost) by cx25450-a.dt1.sdca.home.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07621; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:59:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schwarz) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Resent-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:09:38 -0800 (PST) Resent-Message-Id: Resent-From: Steven Schwarz Resent-To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:58:02 -0800 (PST) Organization: Doctor Design From: Steven Schwarz To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: FW: support for AIC 7895 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I recently put together a system based upon the Tyan Thunder 2 motherboard, which has on-board an Adaptec AIC 7895 SCSI controller. (This is supposed to be "equivalent to a 3940-AUW", to quote the motherboard documentation. Strangely, the Adaptec web site seems to contain no info on the AIC 7895.) I am attempting to get this SCSI controller to play with FreeBSD, starting from 3.0-971022-SNAP. By adding some printf's to the code for aic7870_probe() in aic7870.c, I was able to determine an appropriate PCI ID for the card, and then I added a new constant for that file: #define PCI_DEVICE_ID_ADAPTEC_AIC7895 0x78959004ul I added a new case to aic7870_probe(): case PCI_DEVICE_ID_ADAPTEC_AIC7895: return ("Adaptec aic7895 Ultra SCSI host adapter"); break; And I added a new case to ahc_pci_attach(): case PCI_DEVICE_ID_ADAPTEC_AIC7895: ahc_t = AHC_394U; if ((aic3940_count & 0x01) != 0) { /* Odd count implies second channel */ ahc_f |= AHC_CHNLB; } aic3940_count++; break; This is not enough to get the card working. Here is the dmesg output from a boot with -v: ahc0: rev 0x03 int a irq 19 on pci0.15 .0 ahc0: Reading SEEPROM...checksum error ahc0: No SEEPROM available ahc0: Using left over BIOS settings ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs ahc0: hardware scb 32 bytes; kernel scb 28 bytes; ahc_dma 8 bytes ahc0: Resetting Channel A NEEDSDTR == 0x11 NEEDWDTR == 0x0 DISCENABLE == 0xffff ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...ahc0: 409 instructions downloaded Done ahc0: Probing channel A Choosing drivers for scbus configured at 0 ahc0: waiting for scsi devices to settle scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 scb:0xf066ff20 control:0xc0 tcl:0x0 cmdlen:6 cmdpointer:0x9bed8 datlen:-16777216 data:0x0 segs:0x0 segp:0x0 ahc0: board is not responding scbus0 target 0 lun 0: SCB 0x0 - timed out in command phase, SCSISIGI == 0x86 SEQADDR = 0x14b SCSISEQ = 0x12 SSTAT0 = 0x5 SSTAT1 = 0x3 scbus0 target 0 lun 0: abort message in message buffer ... >From this point on, there is much more of the same, and it appears to be recognizing a device uk#N at every lun of every target of the bus, though the timeouts are so long I have not had the patience to actually let the thing go all the way. Any advice as to what is going wrong and possible next steps would be mightily appreciated.... Thanks, sts From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 11:01:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25426 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from inspace.net (nova.ispace.com [207.204.40.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25419; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gme@inspace.net) Received: from caffeine (caffeine.inspace.net [207.204.40.248]) by inspace.net (8.8.6) (8.8.6) (SPAM Stopper: 3.0b2) with SMTP id OAA06211; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:01:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:59:46 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD0186.0B94F9C0.gme@inspace.net> From: "George M. Ellenburg" To: "'isp@freebsd.org'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: FW: Touching Base Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:59:39 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings, Gentlemen. An associate of mine is experiencing a rather unique problem with his FreeBSD box (P233, 64Mb Ram, 2 Maxtor 3.0gb IDE Hard Drives) ... I'm enclosing an excerpt from our message. Perhaps you may have some clues as I'm stumped. Regards, George Ellenburg -----Original Message----- From: Tom Holderby Sent: Friday, December 05, 1997 11:57 AM To: George M. Ellenburg Subject: Re: Touching Base George, [My Comments:] [...Non Relevant Material Cut...] Let me also give you a quick update on the FreeBSD situation. When I run that "tar x" while sitting at the console I see "Memory Parity Error". But I ran several iterations of the CheckIt memory diagnostic with its most advanced testing options and it's not turning up any errors, so I tend to believe it's a software problem. I have definitely seen software bugs cause memory parity halts, but that was mostly back in the days of assembler code under DOS when you tried to access a non existant add ress. I've never seen it under Unix before. Any ideas? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 11:23:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27469 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27458; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25057; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024942; Fri Dec 5 12:29:12 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14526; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:19:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712051919.MAA14526@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:19:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hsu@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <28434.881290109@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 4, 97 06:48:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is specifically disallowed in your Motif license. > > No it's not. Yes, it is. Motif Licensing -- Terms and Conditions, STANDARD SUPPLEMENT http://www.camb.opengroup.org/tech/desktop/ordering/motifTC.htm [ ... ] d) The term "Run Time Copy" means a copy of any subset of routines from the "libXm" or "libMrm" library files in object code form which is statically linked within an application program and executable only with that single application. That Run Time Copy must not contain any portion of either the Window Manager or the user Interface Language component, or a shared library of the Licensed Program. // BEGIN EMPHASIS Further, it must not enable generation of any portion of the Licensed Program in either source or object code form, nor may it allow any other applications to use the Licensed Program. For example, a software vendor who statically links routines form the "libXm" or libMrm" library files of the Licensed Program in object code form to run only within its application and with no other application has created an acceptable Run time Copy. // END EMPHASIS [ ... ] Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 11:32:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28488 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28475 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29203; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd029163; Fri Dec 5 12:41:50 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14979; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:31:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712051931.MAA14979@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:31:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971205112449.11991@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Dec 5, 97 11:24:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is sef happy with his machine? What motherboard? He claims he is. You should ask him (I don't remember): sef@freebsd.org/sef@kithrup.com. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 11:38:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29249 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:38:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29237; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:38:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA11609; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:38:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd011607; Fri Dec 5 11:38:32 1997 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id LAA07942; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:38:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199712051938.LAA07942@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: FW: support for AIC 7895 In-Reply-To: from Steven Schwarz at "Dec 5, 97 10:58:02 am" To: schwarz@cx25450-a.dt1.sdca.home.com (Steven Schwarz) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:38:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I recently put together a system based upon the Tyan Thunder 2 > motherboard, which has on-board an Adaptec AIC 7895 SCSI controller. > (This is supposed to be "equivalent to a 3940-AUW", to quote the > motherboard documentation. Strangely, the Adaptec web site seems to > contain no info on the AIC 7895.) Which is also incorrect. All 3940[|U|W|UW] I have seen are based on the Adaptec AIC-7870 or AIC-7880. I was browsing last night for a new motherboard and saw that AIC-7895 statement, I first thought they mean the Adaptec 3985 controller, but even that controller is based on 3xAIC-7880 and 1xAIC-7810. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 11:47:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00250 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:47:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00239; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:47:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA06038; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:44:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:44:09 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: "George M. Ellenburg" cc: "'isp@freebsd.org'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FW: Touching Base In-Reply-To: <01BD0186.0B94F9C0.gme@inspace.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, George M. Ellenburg wrote: > Greetings, Gentlemen. > > An associate of mine is experiencing a rather unique problem with his > FreeBSD box (P233, 64Mb Ram, 2 Maxtor 3.0gb IDE Hard Drives) ... I'm > enclosing an excerpt from our message. Perhaps you may have some clues > as I'm stumped. > > Regards, > > George Ellenburg > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Holderby > Sent: Friday, December 05, 1997 11:57 AM > To: George M. Ellenburg > Subject: Re: Touching Base > > George, > > [My Comments:] [...Non Relevant Material Cut...] > > Let me also give you a quick update on the FreeBSD situation. When I > run > that "tar x" while sitting at the console I see "Memory Parity Error". > But > I ran several iterations of the CheckIt memory diagnostic with its most > advanced testing options and it's not turning up any errors, so I tend > to > believe it's a software problem. I have definitely seen software bugs > cause memory parity halts, but that was mostly back in the days of > assembler code under DOS when you tried to access a non existant add > ress. > I've never seen it under Unix before. Any ideas? First, questions like this belong on the FreeBSD-Questions list, not hackers. Anyhow, it's not possible to test memory using a PC. The only way to do it is with an expensive piece of test equipment. The return from Checkit is only good for complete failures; any other indication isn't worth anything at all. I mean that -- checkit is worthless to catch anything but gross memory errors. FreeBSD (or really any other unix) works a PC's memory far harder than any DOS or Windows based application, so the chances really are that your friend has a memory problem. What he has to do is take it back to his vendor and really insist on new memory. There isn't any software problem like he's talking about. This kind of thing is seen quite a bit among folks new to Unix ... I'm not guessing here, your friend's complaint is common, and if he wants to run FreeBSD, he's going to have to get the problem fixed. Under Windows 95, heck, it reboots of it's own accord so often, you don't realize that some percentage of those reboots are hardware faults. Many users of FreeBSD have uptime (on busy internet servers) measured in _years_. > > Tom > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 11:53:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00876 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:53:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00871 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:53:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13257; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:04:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd013236; Fri Dec 5 13:04:02 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16124; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712051953.MAA16124@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: panic: blkfree: freeling free block/frag To: ivt@gamma.ru (Igor Timkin) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:53:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712051553.SAA00865@crocus.gamma.ru> from "Igor Timkin" at Dec 5, 97 06:53:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Every 4-8 days my news server (~10 full incoming feeds, ~50 > outgoing feeds) crash: > panic: blkfree: freeing free block > or > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag [ ... ] > /dev/ccd0c /var/spool/news ufs rw,async,noatime,noexec,nosuid 0 2 [ ... ] > dev=0x1502, block=20372, fs=/var/spool/news > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > syncing disk > (unfortunately at this point the system is freeze and I have > make the hardware reset, so I don't have crash dump). [ ... ] > Any suggestion ? Short answer: Your options are: (1) Live with it (2) Don't mount the device async Long Answer: Generally, this type of problem means you should rebuild the news spool, since *any* corruption could result in invalid information on the disk that could result in a panic. Most likely, you crashed once, and you expected fsck to do something that it can't do reliably: recover an async mounted partition. The partition was "recovered" and marked clean, but when you reference a particular disk metadata construct, it goes off into the weeds because the recovery was imperfect. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 12:00:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01491 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:00:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01486 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:00:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA17468; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:00:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:00:42 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: "George M. Ellenburg" cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FW: Touching Base In-Reply-To: <01BD0186.0B94F9C0.gme@inspace.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Everything I've heard supports the thesis that memory-checking software is useless. The best way to test memory, IMO, is to put it in a machine and then run some big compiles, tar/gzips, that sort of thing. On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, George M. Ellenburg wrote: > Greetings, Gentlemen. > > An associate of mine is experiencing a rather unique problem with his > FreeBSD box (P233, 64Mb Ram, 2 Maxtor 3.0gb IDE Hard Drives) ... I'm > enclosing an excerpt from our message. Perhaps you may have some clues > as I'm stumped. > > Regards, > > George Ellenburg > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Holderby > Sent: Friday, December 05, 1997 11:57 AM > To: George M. Ellenburg > Subject: Re: Touching Base > > George, > > [My Comments:] [...Non Relevant Material Cut...] > > Let me also give you a quick update on the FreeBSD situation. When I > run > that "tar x" while sitting at the console I see "Memory Parity Error". > But > I ran several iterations of the CheckIt memory diagnostic with its most > advanced testing options and it's not turning up any errors, so I tend > to > believe it's a software problem. I have definitely seen software bugs > cause memory parity halts, but that was mostly back in the days of > assembler code under DOS when you tried to access a non existant add > ress. > I've never seen it under Unix before. Any ideas? > > Tom > > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 12:19:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03414 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:19:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fifo.futurelab.com (u142.netsol.net [38.185.32.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03385 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:19:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matthew@netsol.net) Received: from cyrix.futurelab.com (cyrix.futurelab.com [192.168.1.120]) by fifo.futurelab.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01223; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by cyrix.futurelab.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD0042.FDD0C100@cyrix.futurelab.com>; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:27:16 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD0042.FDD0C100@cyrix.futurelab.com> From: matt To: "jkh@time.cdrom.com" , "toor@dyson.iquest.net" , "'Peter Hawkins'" Cc: "ajones@ctron.com" , "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" , "jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu" , "shivers@ai.mit.edu" Subject: RE: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:26:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Maybe you guys want to organize a group on this? matt at Future Lab ---------- From: Peter Hawkins Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 4:39 PM To: jkh@time.cdrom.com; toor@dyson.iquest.net Cc: ajones@ctron.com; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu; shivers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! OK This sounds like an interesting project - I'm in. let's form a little group? Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 12:26:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04280 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:26:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04273; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06757; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:25:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:25:55 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: Paul Traina cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd In-Reply-To: <199712051801.KAA19096@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Traina wrote: > > Has anyone done a Metricom star mode driver for FreeBSD? > > (Star mode is the higher speed packet-oriented mode, Linux has a driver). > > Is there even a starmode driver for Windows? I'm using plain-old Dial Up > on my Win95 laptop. > > No. > > If you want to try and hack something I'll volunteer to test it. I wonder > if i[ij][ij]ppp would be a good place to start; tun0 seems like a good > target interface. > > Yes, iijppp is a good place to test it out. Unfortunately I have > neither the time nor the spare group of modems to actually write > and debug it. I was asking more for curiosity sake. It's too bad > Metricom doesn't offer IP over STAR mode as a service, that would > immediately make it interesting. I need to re-read the starmode docs. I figured you could tweak it to dial into your gateway. Or is that type of functionality not supported yet? Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 12:27:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04555 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04533 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.interworks.org) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id OAA29352; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:31:05 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712052031.OAA29352@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:31:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, schwarz@cx25450-a.dt1.sdca.home.com Subject: Re: FW: support for AIC 7895 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I recently put together a system based upon the Tyan Thunder 2 > motherboard, which has on-board an Adaptec AIC 7895 SCSI controller. > (This is supposed to be "equivalent to a 3940-AUW", to quote the > motherboard documentation. Strangely, the Adaptec web site seems to > contain no info on the AIC 7895.) [...] > I am attempting to get this SCSI controller to play with FreeBSD, starting from 3.0-971022-SNAP. [...] > This is not enough to get the card working. This controller is not totally register compatible with the other 7880s. It doesn't have QINFIFO, QOUTFIFO, QINCNT, and QOUTCNT registers, which is what the driver uses to transfer commands to and from the sequencer. Justin Gibbs is currently working on adding support for these controllers. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 12:38:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05895 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:38:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p17.tfs.net [139.146.205.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05881 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:37:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA00812; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:35:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712052035.OAA00812@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <01bd01aa$f4f35de0$09d181c2@user2.shellnet.co.uk> from Steven Fletcher at "Dec 5, 97 06:24:00 pm" To: ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:35:00 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > I've just installed FreeBSD 2.2.5 via FTP, and I can telnet into the machine > using any other user than root. The prompt simply says that the login fails, > but any other users is OK. I've check capitalisation, but I'm not sure why > this is happening. > > If anyone has any ideas, please reply > > Thanks. > Steven Fletcher > steven@shellnet.co.uk ahem... why would one wish to have the root password pass over an insecure network in plaintext form??? man su also, for most practical purposes, you should not even be using telnet... i suggest using ssh/sshd, because no passwords, in fact nothing in the entire session, is transmitted in plaintext. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 12:44:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06464 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06453 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA05814; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma005812; Fri Dec 5 12:44:03 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA22727; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:03 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712052044.MAA22727@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Teeny-weeny /usr/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c patch In-Reply-To: <199712050606.WAA23987@dog.farm.org> from Dmitry Kohmanyuk at "Dec 4, 97 10:06:37 pm" To: dk+@ua.net Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dmitry Kohmanyuk writes: > > > > + if (*buf == '#') > > + continue; > > should probably become > > char *p; > if ((p = strchr(buf, '#')) != NULL) > *p = 0; > > to handle lines like > #indented comment > or > ipfw deny .... ... #end-of-line comment I almost agree with you, but not quite :-) The reason is that you never know when a # might become a valid part of an ipfw command. An an example, mpd used to do this for comments in the config files. Then somebody wanted to put a '#' in their password: set password "a&xq#53F" and suddenly they couldn't login... Not a perfect counter-example, but the idea is ... you never know. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 12:56:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA07702 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:56:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07675; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:55:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA28115; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:55:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA02517; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:55:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:55:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199712052055.NAA02517@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hsu@freebsd.org, hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-Reply-To: <199712051919.MAA14526@usr08.primenet.com> References: <28434.881290109@time.cdrom.com> <199712051919.MAA14526@usr08.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > This is specifically disallowed in your Motif license. > > > > No it's not. > > Yes, it is. It is for newer release, but not for older releases. If you want to get silly I can dig out my Motif license from a long time ago, scan it in, and send it to you. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 13:08:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08809 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:08:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p17.tfs.net [139.146.205.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08777 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA00924; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:04:47 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712052104.PAA00924@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <199712051941.NAA18863@home.dragondata.com> from Kevin Day at "Dec 5, 97 01:41:04 pm" To: toasty@home.dragondata.com (Kevin Day) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:04:23 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > I've just installed FreeBSD 2.2.5 via FTP, and I can telnet into the machine > > using any other user than root. The prompt simply says that the login fails, > > but any other users is OK. I've check capitalisation, but I'm not sure why > > this is happening. > > > > If anyone has any ideas, please reply > > > > Thanks. > > Steven Fletcher > > steven@shellnet.co.uk > > > > > > > > You can't telnet in as root, as pty's aren't considered 'secure'. > > You have to telnet in as a user, then su. > > Kevin one can argue that if logging in as root via telnet is insecure, then using su while logged in via telnet is just as insecure. as i said in my earlier message [freefall is running slow today], i do highly suggest getting the ssh/sshd package for the purpose of logging in via insecure connections, even then, i still recommend using su. btw: you CAN log in as root via telnet, but i'm not going to have the finger pointing at me for telling this guy which configuration file to change, which by default diallows root logins over a pty. is ssh/sshd a package yet? last time i made it, i had to build it myself... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 13:11:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09148 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:11:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kjsl.com (Limpia.KJSL.COM [198.137.202.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09100; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from javier@kjsl.com) Received: (from javier@localhost) by kjsl.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA19475; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:11:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:11:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712052111.NAA19475@kjsl.com> From: Javier Henderson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Didier Derny Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HELP! In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Didier Derny writes: > - the router is a Cisco 1603 with 1 BRI S/T interface. > - IOS 11.2 > > - Phone number: 0561163290 > - Login: omnix > - Password: xxxxx > - Network: 194.149.170.24/29 (255.255.255.248) > - Routeur: 194.149.170.25 > - Default route: 194.149.170.1 > - Primary DNS: 194.149.160.9 > - Secondary DNS: 194.149.160.2 Before I come up with a sample config, can you tell me whether you'll be using unnumbered links for the BRI interface? Also, I will assume that the router's Ethernet interface on the router will be 194.149.170.25, correct? -jav From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 13:16:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09642 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:16:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09588 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:15:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11519; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:15:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:15:38 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Mitchell To: Jim Bryant cc: ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <199712052035.OAA00812@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > ahem... > > why would one wish to have the root password pass over an insecure > network in plaintext form??? > > man su This is pretty dumb, as the password is _still_ passing over an insecure network in plaintext form. > > also, for most practical purposes, you should not even be using > telnet... i suggest using ssh/sshd, because no passwords, in fact > nothing in the entire session, is transmitted in plaintext. Well, some client information is transmitted in plaintext; it does that to determine what ssh capabilities the other side has. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 13:19:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09937 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:19:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09932 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:18:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@cdsnet.net) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA26176; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:18:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:18:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Terry Lambert cc: Igor Timkin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: panic: blkfree: freeling free block/frag In-Reply-To: <199712051953.MAA16124@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, Terry might be correct, but in this case I doubt it. This crash is identical to what I was seeing on both of my newsservers under 2.x. (I think David Rivers is seeing the same thing). I reported it to hackers numerous times, and John D. finally took a look at it one time, and I don't recall exactly what was wrong, but there were some boundary cases or somesuch that weren't being handled properly. Then he was going to make a patch up for it, but I never saw it, or perhaps it was integrated into -current, and never backported. In the mean time, my solution was to upgrade to 3.x and 'voila, no more crashes. So I would upgrade to 3.x, and see if it goes away. If it survives make worlds and such (and the problem isn't symptomatic of bad memory that I can see), then I would lean towards this solution. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 13:23:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10563 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:23:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p33.tfs.net [139.146.205.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10555 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:23:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA00981; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:23:03 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712052123.PAA00981@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: from Brian Mitchell at "Dec 5, 97 04:15:38 pm" To: brian@firehouse.net (Brian Mitchell) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:23:03 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > > > ahem... > > > > why would one wish to have the root password pass over an insecure > > network in plaintext form??? > > > > man su > > This is pretty dumb, as the password is _still_ passing over an insecure > network in plaintext form. oops... i've already clarified this in a previous posting... su under ssh... > > > > also, for most practical purposes, you should not even be using > > telnet... i suggest using ssh/sshd, because no passwords, in fact > > nothing in the entire session, is transmitted in plaintext. > > Well, some client information is transmitted in plaintext; it does that to > determine what ssh capabilities the other side has. oops... well, still nothing in the user session will be plaintext... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 13:40:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12600 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:40:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12592 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:40:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@cdsnet.net) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA00245; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:40:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:40:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Jim Bryant cc: ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <199712052035.OAA00812@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > man su > I'm not sure how I see su helping. If he has to telnet in as a normal user, then su to root, he still has to send the root password in the clear. Seems like one of the encrypting telnet's, or ssh is the only real way... Or only use root on the console. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 13:40:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12656 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12644; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:40:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11588; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:50:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd011546; Fri Dec 5 14:50:42 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA23606; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:39:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712052139.OAA23606@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:39:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hsu@freebsd.org, hackers@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712052055.NAA02517@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 5, 97 01:55:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > This is specifically disallowed in your Motif license. > > > > > > No it's not. > > > > Yes, it is. > > It is for newer release, but not for older releases. If you want to get > silly I can dig out my Motif license from a long time ago, scan it in, > and send it to you. :) 1.2.1, it's OK. They didn't take this type of subvesrion of the spirit of the license into account. But either 1.2.2 or 1.2.3 added in the requirement. I was quoting from 2.x's license from the "opengroup" site because you can't really get a new 1.2.1 license any more. I bet I have the same marketing literature you have, for what it's worth... ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 13:58:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14592 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:58:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14585; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:58:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA28565; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:58:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA02898; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:58:06 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199712052158.OAA02898@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), jkh@time.cdrom.com, hsu@freebsd.org, hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-Reply-To: <199712052139.OAA23606@usr09.primenet.com> References: <199712052055.NAA02517@mt.sri.com> <199712052139.OAA23606@usr09.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was quoting from 2.x's license from the "opengroup" site because > you can't really get a new 1.2.1 license any more. Sure you can, you just gotta now how. :) :) Nate Hint: I bought a recent copy from XI Graphics less than 2 months ago. :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 14:21:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA16627 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:21:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16620; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:21:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03398; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:20:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712052220.OAA03398@rah.star-gate.com> To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hsu@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@hub.freebsd.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:55:47 MST." <199712052055.NAA02517@mt.sri.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3395.881360434.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:20:34 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So what is your scanner + software for scanning documents? Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 14:27:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17119 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:27:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17100; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:26:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22652; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:40:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd022626; Fri Dec 5 08:40:50 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25461; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:11:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712052211.PAA25461@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:11:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, nate@mt.sri.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hsu@freebsd.org, hackers@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712052158.OAA02898@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 5, 97 02:58:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I was quoting from 2.x's license from the "opengroup" site because > > you can't really get a new 1.2.1 license any more. > > Sure you can, you just gotta now how. :) :) > > Nate > > Hint: I bought a recent copy from XI Graphics less than 2 months ago. :) OK, if you can find an old distribution, you can do it... If you are willing to do ELF, of course, you can get a full developement release of CDE for free. As I said the other day... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 14:30:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17593 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:30:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17588 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:30:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07576; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd007570; Fri Dec 5 14:28:53 1997 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:26:29 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a strange problem with slices, 3.0-current, and disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > For example, what doesn't work is the following: > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rwd0 bs=512 count=128. > dd reports one block in, zero out. > The kernel prints three messages of the form: > wd0s1: type 0x6, start 63, end=4193279, size=4193217: OK > wd0s2: .... different start and end and size: OK > wd0s5: ... different start and end and size: OK so dd is not writing to the device. try: fdisk -iu /dev/rwd0 and enter 0 for every possible numerical field then: reboot disklabel -w -r /dev/rwd0 floppy3 disklabel -e -r /dev/rwd0 [edit to taste] reboot: julian > The kernel prints these messages every time I do anything to the disk. > (read, write, whatever). I also can not > dd if=/dev/rwd0 | od -xc | more > dd gets an immediate EOF! rwd0 is not functioning as it used to. maybe the drive has a 'virus protect feature'? > > fdisk can't do anything with this disk either. What appears to be > happening is that any reference to rwd0 is somehow being redirected to the > 4th partition on the disk, which is the only unused one, and which is also > zero bytes long: immediate error. > > I'm now very confused, and I hate to drop this on hackers, but: > 1) questions has resulted in only one (non-working) answer > 2) This looks like a bug, or at least a big change in How Things Work Out of curiosity: If you have time.. get my 'slice' patches from: ftp:hub.freebsd.org/pub/scsi/slice2.tar.gz and apply them to a current kernel. make a kernel with options DEVFS and SLICE (see the SLICE config file) boot it single user. mount -t devfs /devfs /mnt cd mnt then try smash the device as before. that code is a lot more direct about getting at the device and bypasses all the present BSD slice/partition confusion. > > one more question: how does the install tool do it? how does the install > tool blast the dos partitions, where is the ezboot that it loads onto the > disk, and how does it get ezboot there? The install tool does not appear > to use fdisk/disklabel, or if it does, it's using them in a way I don't get. no it uses libdisk whish is cool but not humanly usable of course you COULD just run the install floppy..... > > thanks > ron > > Ron Minnich |Java: an operating-system-independent, > rminnich@sarnoff.com |architecture-independent programming language > (609)-734-3120 |for Windows/95 and Windows/NT on the Pentium > ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 14:34:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17894 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:34:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17887 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:34:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@kalypso.cybercom.net) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA24392; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:32:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:32:47 -0500 (EST) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: Jim Bryant cc: Kevin Day , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <199712052104.PAA00924@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: : btw: you CAN log in as root via telnet, but i'm not going to have the : finger pointing at me for telling this guy which configuration file to : change, which by default diallows root logins over a pty. What finger pointing? It's just sharing the knowledge. I'd actually like to know this myself. K.S. PS -- If you don't want to get in trouble, just whisper it back to me privately. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 14:51:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19634 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:51:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19624 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:50:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xe6aF-000193-00; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:50:55 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA12333; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:49:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712052249.PAA12333@harmony.village.org> To: John-Mark Gurney Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? Cc: Francisco Reyes , Greg Lehey , "hackers@freebsd.org" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:38:05 PST." <19971205093805.56784@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> References: <19971205093805.56784@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199712051453.GAA24838@super.zippo.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:49:47 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <19971205093805.56784@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> John-Mark Gurney writes: : why not simply use the && pipeline operator for this?? this is what : it is most commonly used for... Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing something that did an ls of /usr/src/sys/i386/conf, presented the user with choices (say a tk program) and then asked for a couple of options. Then you hit GO and the kernel would be rebuilt for them on the fly and optionally installed. Kind of a kernel compiler wizard. Is there any interest in this from the peanut gallary? Shouldn't be too hard to put together, modulo error checking :-). And if you really watned to get fancy, you could have a config wizard that you could use to create a custom kernel config file, but that is harder to write :-). Comments? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 14:56:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20132 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:56:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20125; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xe6fe-00019H-00; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:56:30 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA12376; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:55:23 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712052255.PAA12376@harmony.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? Cc: Terry Lambert , jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hsu@freebsd.org, hackers@hub.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:55:47 MST." <199712052055.NAA02517@mt.sri.com> References: <199712052055.NAA02517@mt.sri.com> <28434.881290109@time.cdrom.com> <199712051919.MAA14526@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:55:23 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712052055.NAA02517@mt.sri.com> Nate Williams writes: : It is for newer release, but not for older releases. If you want to get : silly I can dig out my Motif license from a long time ago, scan it in, : and send it to you. :) This whole discussion came up back when the university of Ill was distributing Mosaic. They were able to distribute a statically linked copy of Mosaic because their license allowed them to do so. It was a 1.1 Motif rather than a 1.2 (or maybe 1.2 rather than 2.0). Since Marc Anderson sent the mail explaining this, I suspect that he knows the legal license very well. Besides, maybe his company has a special deal with OSF for netscape/java. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 15:14:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA21395 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:14:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21390 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:14:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id QAA27936; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:12:02 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:12:02 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712052312.QAA27936@narnia.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 References: <199712051938.LAA07942@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> In-Reply-To: <199712051938.LAA07942@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> From: gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Subject: Re: FW: support for AIC 7895 X-Original-Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199712051938.LAA07942@gatekeeper.alameda.net>, Ulf Zimmermann writes: >> I recently put together a system based upon the Tyan Thunder 2 >> motherboard, which has on-board an Adaptec AIC 7895 SCSI controller. >> (This is supposed to be "equivalent to a 3940-AUW", to quote the >> motherboard documentation. Strangely, the Adaptec web site seems to >> contain no info on the AIC 7895.) > > Which is also incorrect. All 3940[|U|W|UW] I have seen are based on the > Adaptec AIC-7870 or AIC-7880. I guess you haven't seen the 3940AUW. This is a cost reduced version of the 3940 that uses a single aic7895 instead of two aic7880s and a Dec bridge chip. Although cost reduced, it should offer better performance than the older 3940 non A version. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD - Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 15:18:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA21854 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:18:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from klokan.sh.cvut.cz (root@klokan.sh.cvut.cz [193.84.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA21834 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from J.Klaus@sh.cvut.cz) Received: from skunk.sh.cvut.cz (skunk.sh.cvut.cz [194.108.141.34]) by klokan.sh.cvut.cz (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08718 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:17:57 +0100 Received: from SKUNK/SpoolDir by skunk.sh.cvut.cz (Mercury 1.31); 6 Dec 97 00:17:58 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by SKUNK (Mercury 1.31); 6 Dec 97 00:16:59 +0100 Received: from hell.sh.cvut.cz by skunk.sh.cvut.cz (Mercury 1.31); 6 Dec 97 00:16:56 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:03:00 +0100 (CET) Organization: CTU Prague From: Jaroslav Klaus To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: IP/IPX routing Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA21850 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I have inet/ipx network like this (only fragment): II I 1 ... Novell 3.12 | ------- | 2 ... MS DOS/Win95/WinNT user + NW ------- | | | | 3 ... my FreeBSD 2.2.2 box | | | | 2 |---| 4 ... MS DOS/Win95/WinNT user + NW | 4 |---| | | | ------- | | | ------- | | | ------- | |---| 1 |--> INTERNET | ------- | | | | | | | ------- network: |---| 3 |---| I ... ipx: 337b030 | | | | inet mask: /27 ------- | II ... ipx: 337b031 | inet mask: /30 . | . | . BUT look at ed1 MAC address - the same as ed0. What's wrong? ed0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 194.108.141.148 netmask 0xffffffe0 broadcast 194.108.141.159 ipx 337b030.b472aa83 ether 00:00:b4:72:aa:83 ed1: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 194.108.141.157 netmask 0xfffffffc broadcast 194.108.141.159 ipx 337b031.b472aa83 ^^^^^^^^ ether 00:40:95:13:8f:77 Explicitly setting gives me an error: %ifconfig ed1 ipx 337b031.4095138f77 ifconfig: ioctl (SIOCAIFADDR): Invalid argument Q1: Could I add record to ipx routing table manually (not by IPXrouted)? Q2: And could I specify record in ipx routing table only for one MAC adress? Q3: Will machine No.4 be able to attach Novell server No.1 ? Q4: Is it possible to configure Network II to be also Network I for ipx? I want to have only 1 logical segment No. 337b030 (Network I) composed of two physical Networks I & II. This will be a time restricted configuration for games... (I know all needed MAC address) Q5: How could I specify gateway by MAC address in inet routing table (like 194.108.141.148 0:0:b4:72:aa:83)? Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 194.108.141.129 UGSc 11 45 ed0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 0 67 lo0 194.108.141.128/27 link#1 UC 0 0 194.108.141.129 0:0:e8:da:e5:fa UHLW 10 0 ed0 1102 194.108.141.148 0:0:b4:72:aa:83 UHLW 1 4551 lo0 194.108.141.156/30 link#2 UC 0 0 --- Thank you very much, Jarda From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 15:25:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22544 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bcarsde4.localhost (mailgate.nortel.ca [192.58.194.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22536 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:25:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atrens@nortel.ca) Message-Id: <199712052325.PAA22536@hub.freebsd.org> Received: from bcars520.ca.nortel.com (actually 47.128.5.188) by bcarsde4.localhost; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:01:47 -0500 Received: from bnr.ca by bcars520.bnr.ca id <18108-0@bcars520.bnr.ca>; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:00:49 -0500 Date: 05 Dec 1997 16:58 EST To: reg@csir.co.za Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, sos@FreeBSD.dk, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, mark@vmunix.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Andrew Atrens" Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My 2c, I've got a K6-200 and I'm sad to say this particular chip is not overclockable. Even with the big fan, grease, and huge-mother-heat-sink it still locks up. I can't say for sure that the lock-ups are attributable to overheating, but my old Pentium 150/75 combo ran solidly with the same mobo and PCI devices... apparently AMD is having chip-fab problems (refer to Tom's site), and I know that in my neck of the woods the chips are hard to find. Now, having said all of this, I am *very* pleased with the performance of this chip. And, when not overclocked, it does run cooler than a Cyrix. I second Jeremy's suggestion to reference Tom's site, its an invaluable resource. Again, just my 2c ... Andrew (opinions mine, not Nortels..) In message "Should I buy a Cyrix processor?", reg@csir.co.za writes: > Hi, > > On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:07:22AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Actually both 3.5 & 4 works on both my P6's :), it wont run 266Mhz though > > > but 240Mhz (4*60) works just fine ... > > > > I wonder which is actually faster in practice. 233/66 or 240/60. :-) > > On my P5-166: 225/75... > > couldn't get it to run with a 83MHz bus. This is an Asus TX97-E board. Very > nice piece of hardware for the quality concious low-end user. > > See http://www.tomshardware.com/ (was http://sysdoc.pair.com/) for a really > good write-up on overclocking and bus speeds. > > -Jeremy > > -- > .sig.gz > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 16:17:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26549 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p33.tfs.net [139.146.205.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26529 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA01256; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:15:07 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712060015.SAA01256@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: from The Classiest Man Alive at "Dec 5, 97 05:32:47 pm" To: ksmm@cybercom.net (The Classiest Man Alive) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:14:59 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > > : btw: you CAN log in as root via telnet, but i'm not going to have the > : finger pointing at me for telling this guy which configuration file to > : change, which by default diallows root logins over a pty. > > > What finger pointing? It's just sharing the knowledge. I'd actually like > to know this myself. > > K.S. > > PS -- If you don't want to get in trouble, just whisper it back to me > privately. man login jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 16:23:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27039 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:23:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27017 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:23:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15547; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:23:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971205162309.56856@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:23:09 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Doug White Cc: Paul Traina , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd References: <199712051801.KAA19096@precipice.shockwave.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Doug White on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 12:25:55PM -0800 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Doug White scribbled this message on Dec 5: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Traina wrote: > > > Has anyone done a Metricom star mode driver for FreeBSD? > > > (Star mode is the higher speed packet-oriented mode, Linux has a driver). > > > > Is there even a starmode driver for Windows? I'm using plain-old Dial Up > > on my Win95 laptop. > > > > No. > > > > If you want to try and hack something I'll volunteer to test it. I wonder > > if i[ij][ij]ppp would be a good place to start; tun0 seems like a good > > target interface. > > > > Yes, iijppp is a good place to test it out. Unfortunately I have > > neither the time nor the spare group of modems to actually write > > and debug it. I was asking more for curiosity sake. It's too bad > > Metricom doesn't offer IP over STAR mode as a service, that would > > immediately make it interesting. I was going to look at it.. (I have a few linux cd's with the proper source on it, and have even looked at the code, but it was WAY to ugly)... but I haven't had time... I've been working on other projects that have more interest to me... > I need to re-read the starmode docs. I figured you could tweak it to dial > into your gateway. Or is that type of functionality not supported yet? star mode is a way to convert your modem into something much closer to an ethernet card... it drops the over head of ppp and the stream that is required.. and you send raw packets that are addressed to the remote side directly... tun would be easy to write the interface code and test it.. but if you want any real performance out of the driver, your going to need to write it as a kernel driver... possibly adding another type of handler to go along with slip/ppp that can be layered on the tty struct... as for modems... I'm pretty sure that Doug wouldn't mind helping in the developement process... also, as long as your a subscriber to the ricochet network, don't they route packets for you? so as long as both ends are subscribers to their network, it shouldn't be a problem... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 16:38:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28459 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28433 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:38:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15594; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:37:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971205163751.03734@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:37:51 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: Jim Bryant , ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access References: <199712052035.OAA00812@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Jaye Mathisen on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 01:40:00PM -0800 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jaye Mathisen scribbled this message on Dec 5: > > > > man su > > > > I'm not sure how I see su helping. If he has to telnet in as a normal > user, then su to root, he still has to send the root password in the > clear. what it prevents is brute force password attempts to directly break root's acount... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 16:59:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00177 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:59:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00172 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from detlev!joelh@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp90.wcc.net [208.6.232.90]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA19821; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:56:26 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA20429; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:59:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:59:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712060059.SAA20429@detlev.UUCP> To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net CC: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Jaye Mathisen on Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:40:00 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: Telnet Root access From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure how I see su helping. If he has to telnet in as a normal > user, then su to root, he still has to send the root password in the > clear. > Seems like one of the encrypting telnet's, or ssh is the only real way... > Or only use root on the console. Perhaps because two passwords have to have been compromised for an intruder on an insecure console to gain entry. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 17:29:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02495 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:29:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@congo-73.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02490 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:29:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00767; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:29:47 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: John-Mark Gurney cc: Jaye Mathisen , Jim Bryant , ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <19971205163751.03734@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Jaye Mathisen scribbled this message on Dec 5: > > > > > > > man su > > > > > > > I'm not sure how I see su helping. If he has to telnet in as a normal > > user, then su to root, he still has to send the root password in the > > clear. > > what it prevents is brute force password attempts to directly break > root's acount... Actually it doesn't really even prevent that. Su just adds more detailed logging of the attempts, which are more likely (IMO) to draw attention. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:00:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04787 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04777 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:00:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14080 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd014071; Fri Dec 5 17:53:09 1997 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:49:48 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: The 'Stable' status of freeBSD-stable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So today I got bitten by another API change in the 2.2 stream. old machines (2.2.1 vintage) can't run cpio from new images.. the now binaries use 'lchown(2)' We really need to make a clear policy about this.. I was under the impression (and so was Mike Smith) that the 2.2 series was supposed to have a STABLE interface! being able to add a binary from 2.2.5 to a 2.2.1 machine SHOULD work.. ok, so I've built a new kernel for that machine and hopefully that will be the end of it, but even though people have complained about thigs I have added to -stable, I've always been careful that they were completely transparrent. just a grumble.... (overrall I'm quite pleased with the stability, and we have LOTS of FreeBSD machines out there, all running 2.2.x kernels) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:19:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05869 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:19:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp8.portal.net.au [202.12.71.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05860 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00352; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:37:22 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712060207.MAA00352@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Vladimir Litovka cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lock port at 14400 In-reply-to: Your message of "04 Dec 1997 11:50:37 +0200." <665udd$j7r$1@grunt.vl.net.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:37:22 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Second, they have features like compression and error control, which > > require that they communicate _faster_ than the line rate. Most folks > > talk to their modems at 57600 or 115Kbps. > > Thanks, I know about this. But I really need this. As I know, there is > possibility to set divisor for UART, I did this under Linux, with setserial > command. And this trick works correctly. Is FreeBSD has such possibility? FreeBSD supports arbitrary bitrates; the point that Chuck is making is that your modem *doesn't*. Setting your port to 14.4kbps will not achieve the result that I suspect you desire. Of course, since you haven't told us *why* you want to do this, it's impossible to give you an answer that will actually help you. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:21:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06230 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:21:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06220 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:21:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07069; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:21:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:21:03 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Alex cc: John-Mark Gurney , Jaye Mathisen , Jim Bryant , ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > Jaye Mathisen scribbled this message on Dec 5: > > > > > > > > > > man su > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how I see su helping. If he has to telnet in as a normal > > > user, then su to root, he still has to send the root password in the > > > clear. > > > > what it prevents is brute force password attempts to directly break > > root's acount... > > Actually it doesn't really even prevent that. Su just adds more detailed > logging of the attempts, which are more likely (IMO) to draw attention. many people will just capture the fist 100 or so characters sent to a session... logging everything you enter on a connection is a waste of space, and they need to dig through tht later. IMO: sending the root password plaintext over the network at any time is a *NO*. I *only* use ssh to connect as root (even when su-ing), and only from a host I trust, and a binary I trust. I have learned the hard way not to compromise on neteork/system security. -- David Cross ACS Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:25:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06596 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06590; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:25:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA16680; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:25:39 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: hsu@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 19:19:00 GMT." <199712051919.MAA14526@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:25:39 -0800 Message-ID: <16677.881375139@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > applications to use the Licensed Program. For example, a software > vendor who statically links routines form the "libXm" or libMrm" > library files of the Licensed Program in object code form to run only > within its application and with no other application has created an > acceptable Run time Copy. Sure looks like the answer is "no, it's not" in this particular case to me, which is all I was arguing. You only support my side of the argument with this citation. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06929 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (CMU1.ACS.CMU.EDU [128.2.35.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06924 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:29:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnw@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: from unix23.andrew.cmu.edu (UNIX23.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.72.63]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA09590; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:25:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:25:27 -0500 (EST) From: Robert N Watson To: The Hermit Hacker cc: Thomas David Rivers , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > I think some people where I work would be interested as well. I've > > begun discussing it with them... > > A little late, no? I did some research for work, and from what > I can determine (please, someone correct me if I am wrong) AFS evolved into > DFS...there seems to be alot of nice DFS/DCE stuff going on now... AFS also evolved into Coda, which is free, and has neat things like replicated write, excellent disconnected/mobile support, etc, and has NetBSD and Linux ports. http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ Robert Watson From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:30:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06993 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:30:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06979 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:30:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA16648; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:22:01 -0800 (PST) To: matt cc: "toor@dyson.iquest.net" , "'Peter Hawkins'" , "ajones@ctron.com" , "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" , "jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu" , "shivers@ai.mit.edu" Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 23:26:30 PST." <01BD0042.FDD0C100@cyrix.futurelab.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:22:01 -0800 Message-ID: <16644.881374921@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Already done - please see (and join, if you wish, by sending mail to majordomo) the freebsd-afs mailing list. Jordan > Maybe you guys want to organize a group on this? > matt at Future Lab > > ---------- > From: Peter Hawkins > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 4:39 PM > To: jkh@time.cdrom.com; toor@dyson.iquest.net > Cc: ajones@ctron.com; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu; shiv ers@ai.mit.edu > Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! > > OK This sounds like an interesting project - I'm in. let's form a little > group? > > Peter > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:32:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07353 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:32:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp8.portal.net.au [202.12.71.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07339; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:32:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00955; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:57:21 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712060227.MAA00955@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: hsu@freebsd.org (Jeffrey Hsu), hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:56:15 -0000." <199712041956.MAA12406@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:57:20 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is there a way to create a shared library with references to Motif routines > > resolved statically so one doesn't have to also distribute a Motif shared > > library? > > This is specifically disallowed in your Motif license. That's odd; StarOffice has most of the Motif library buried inside their GUI library. I think they deconstructed the original shared libraries and re-archived them along with the rest of their stuff. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:51:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08563 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@seoul-235.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08558 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA12487; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:52:07 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:52:06 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org Reply-To: Alex To: "David E. Cross" cc: John-Mark Gurney , Jaye Mathisen , Jim Bryant , ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, David E. Cross wrote: > > Actually it doesn't really even prevent that. Su just adds more detailed > > logging of the attempts, which are more likely (IMO) to draw attention. > many people will just capture the fist 100 or so characters sent to a > session... logging everything you enter on a connection is a waste of > space, and they need to dig through tht later. > > IMO: sending the root password plaintext over the network at any time is a > *NO*. I *only* use ssh to connect as root (even when su-ing), and only > from a host I trust, and a binary I trust. I have learned the hard way > not to compromise on neteork/system security. AFAIK, su just logs information like so: Dec 5 17:18:44 zippy su: alex to root on /dev/ttyp0 or Dec 5 18:49:43 zippy su: BAD SU alex to root on /dev/ttyp2 which is somewhat more informative than what login provides: Dec 5 16:12:50 zippy login: ROOT LOGIN (root) ON ttyv1 Either way, you and everyone else who suggested ssh are right, ssh is still the way to go if security is a concern. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 18:52:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08629 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:52:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08617 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:52:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id VAA00415; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:50:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712060250.VAA00415@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-Reply-To: from "David E. Cross" at "Dec 5, 97 04:03:23 pm" To: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:50:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: matthew@netsol.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au, ajones@ctron.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu, shivers@ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David E. Cross said: > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, matt wrote: > > > Maybe you guys want to organize a group on this? > > matt at Future Lab > a 'group'... I thought that was what freebsd-afs was? > > I am curious to know who has AFS client licenses, server licenses, and > source licenses... and for what versions. > > (I have access to source and client for binaries and source for all of the > 3.4 seriers, and some 3.3) > I don't have any licenses, but can likely help with interface stubs and requirements for FreeBSD. If anyone can provide me with a license, I'll sign an NDA or whatever is needed. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 19:20:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10449 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:20:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp8.portal.net.au [202.12.71.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10437; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01340; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:45:15 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712060315.NAA01340@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Chuck Robey cc: "George M. Ellenburg" , "'isp@freebsd.org'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FW: Touching Base In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:44:09 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 13:45:15 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Let me also give you a quick update on the FreeBSD situation. When I > > run > > that "tar x" while sitting at the console I see "Memory Parity Error". > > But > > I ran several iterations of the CheckIt memory diagnostic with its most > > advanced testing options and it's not turning up any errors, so I tend > > to > > believe it's a software problem. I have definitely seen software bugs ... > hackers. Anyhow, it's not possible to test memory using a PC. The only > way to do it is with an expensive piece of test equipment. The return > from Checkit is only good for complete failures; any other indication > isn't worth anything at all. > > I mean that -- checkit is worthless to catch anything but gross memory > errors. Just to add emphasis to this particular point; the CheckIt manual goes to some considerable pains to make the above *very*clear*. Test and diagnostic software is fine as far as it goes, but too many people are willing to believe that if something says everything is alright, it must be so. Hello Peter Norton, McAfee, etc. etc. etc. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 20:19:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14583 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:19:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14577 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:19:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA10540; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:18:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:18:28 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: Jim Bryant , Kevin Day , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk /etc/ttys (man 5 ttys for the format) On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > > : btw: you CAN log in as root via telnet, but i'm not going to have the > : finger pointing at me for telling this guy which configuration file to > : change, which by default diallows root logins over a pty. > > > What finger pointing? It's just sharing the knowledge. I'd actually like > to know this myself. > > K.S. > > PS -- If you don't want to get in trouble, just whisper it back to me > privately. > > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 20:51:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16875 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:51:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp5.portal.net.au [202.12.71.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16870 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01509; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:17:01 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712060347.OAA01509@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian Cuthie cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Embedded FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:11:11 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 14:17:00 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm looking for advice on using FreeBSD as an Embedded OS, especially > with the real-time extensions. Any advice or pointers would be > appreciated. Thanks. What sort of pointers are you looking for? Do you have specific questions, or are you expecting handholding documentation of some sort? Without knowing what you want, it's a little hard to help you along... mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 21:30:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19359 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19337 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:30:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id XAA03778; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:32:30 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma003775; Fri, 5 Dec 97 23:32:06 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:32:02 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: "David E. Cross" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Actually, who knows if SSH is _really_ safe? Have you checked with a packet sniffer to see if everything is really encrypted all the time? Personally, I only use my computer from a serial console (they can sniff modern monitors too easily). Never even across phone lines. Sometimes I get nervous if I can't see the entire length of my serial cable!! :-) :-) Seriously it would be a boon to all if ssh was installed by default and you had to work to get telnetd running ... of course I know this won't happen. If only there were several good, free Windoze ssh implementations. Jacques Vidrine On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, David E. Cross wrote: > IMO: sending the root password plaintext over the network at any time is a > *NO*. I *only* use ssh to connect as root (even when su-ing), and only > from a host I trust, and a binary I trust. I have learned the hard way > not to compromise on neteork/system security. > > -- > David Cross > ACS Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 21:54:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20790 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20782; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:53:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA17485; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:53:52 -0800 (PST) To: Mike Smith cc: Terry Lambert , hsu@FreeBSD.ORG (Jeffrey Hsu), hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:57:20 +1030." <199712060227.MAA00955@word.smith.net.au> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:53:52 -0800 Message-ID: <17481.881387632@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > That's odd; StarOffice has most of the Motif library buried inside > their GUI library. I think they deconstructed the original shared > libraries and re-archived them along with the rest of their stuff. You don't have to do this - all you need to do is statically link in Motif while leaving everything else shared - that's what the -Bstatic and -Bdynamic flags for ld toggle on and off, and if you embed them strategically in your link line you can make this happen. I think what Terry's confused about is the part of the license which essentially attempts to disallow anyone from including the shared libraries and/or headers in a form which allow completely different applications to link against and use them. I also have a slight advantage in this debate, having talked just a couple of weeks ago to the Open Group managers who are in charge of the Motif licensing issues, and they assured me that static linking, as long as it wasn't for the express purpose of somehow "wrapping" the development libraries in a way that could still be directly exploited by another C/C++ programmer, is quite fine. I then asked them about "moat", the Motif interface for TCL which allows one to do precisely that in a TCL interpreter but is shippied static. They said that this was fine too, and that they were in the process of making Motif's license a fair bit easier to swallow from the whole static/dynamic linking perspective (they weren't precise, but I got the feeling that they may be focusing strictly on the header files in any future "compliance enforcement" issues). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 22:13:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22173 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp6.portal.net.au [202.12.71.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22162; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:13:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02123; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:35:09 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712060605.QAA02123@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Mike Smith , Terry Lambert , hsu@FreeBSD.ORG (Jeffrey Hsu), hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:53:52 -0800." <17481.881387632@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:35:07 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > That's odd; StarOffice has most of the Motif library buried inside > > their GUI library. I think they deconstructed the original shared > > libraries and re-archived them along with the rest of their stuff. > > You don't have to do this - all you need to do is statically link in > Motif while leaving everything else shared - that's what the -Bstatic > and -Bdynamic flags for ld toggle on and off, and if you embed them > strategically in your link line you can make this happen. You make the Motif functions appear inside your shared library? I am fairly sure we are misunderstanding here; you seem to be describing "how to link the Motif components statically into your application", while the StarOffice situation is slightly different. They have all their GUI components in a shared library which is used by all their applications. In order to avoid having to distribute the Motif shared library with their stuff, they include all the Motif functions in the aforementioned library. There have been reports of people making copies of the StarOffice library, renaming it "libXm.so.*" and using it to run the shared-Motif Netscape (and other Motif-requiring applications), hence my assumption. > I also have a slight advantage in this debate, having talked just a > couple of weeks ago to the Open Group managers who are in charge of > the Motif licensing issues, [...] but I got the feeling that > they may be focusing strictly on the header files in any future > "compliance enforcement" issues). This sounds extremely positive. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 22:50:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24958 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:50:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [207.105.15.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24951; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20382; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Message-Id: <199712060649.WAA20382@precipice.shockwave.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Charles Mott cc: Doug White , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 11:51:24 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 22:49:46 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Metricom STAR mode eliminates the connection oriented reliable protocol that metricom uses to make the radio look like a modem. The disadvantage is that data is no unreliably transmitted. The advantages are that if you have a reasonable TCP stack (or even Linux's) you can raise your effective througput to nearly the modem's throughput (which is 100kbps). Unfortunately, since metricom doesn't offer an IP via STAR mode service, you're stuck building your own private network. A bunch of folks at stanford did this a few years back, it was quite impressive. try http://www-cs.stanford.edu, search for Mosquitonet or Stuart Cheshire. FYI, someone pointed me at (wow!) a NetBSD STAR mode driver. That's close enough that I may just get it up and running some time I'm flying off on a plane somewhere. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 5 23:53:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28382 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28376; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:53:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA17841; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:53:48 -0800 (PST) To: Mike Smith cc: Terry Lambert , hsu@FreeBSD.ORG (Jeffrey Hsu), hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:35:07 +1030." <199712060605.QAA02123@word.smith.net.au> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:53:47 -0800 Message-ID: <17837.881394827@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You make the Motif functions appear inside your shared library? I am > fairly sure we are misunderstanding here; you seem to be describing > "how to link the Motif components statically into your application", > while the StarOffice situation is slightly different. They have all > their GUI components in a shared library which is used by all their > applications. In order to avoid having to distribute the Motif shared > library with their stuff, they include all the Motif functions in the > aforementioned library. Ahhh. OK, you're right, I misunderstood. That's... tricky. :) One would think that TOG would have a significant problem with something like that under the usual terms. I guess they've already mellowed out. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 00:12:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA29504 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:12:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (ppp0.acroal.com [209.24.62.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29494; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:12:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01246; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:41:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:41:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Paul Traina cc: Charles Mott , Doug White , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd In-Reply-To: <199712060649.WAA20382@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FYI, someone pointed me at (wow!) a NetBSD STAR mode driver. That's close > enough that I may just get it up and running some time I'm flying off on a > plane somewhere. Interesting, Is that illegal (using a metricom on a plane I mean)? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 03:24:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA08823 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:24:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA08814 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05609; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:24:05 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:19:35 -0600 To: Julian Elischer From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: The 'Stable' status of freeBSD-stable Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 7:49 PM -0600 12/5/97, Julian Elischer wrote: >So today I got bitten by another API change in the 2.2 stream. >old machines (2.2.1 vintage) can't run cpio from new >images.. > >the now binaries use 'lchown(2)' >We really need to make a clear policy about this.. >I was under the impression (and so was Mike Smith) >that the 2.2 series was supposed to have a STABLE interface! > >being able to add a binary from 2.2.5 to a 2.2.1 machine SHOULD work.. I agree. The change of interface should have been caused a bump to 2.3. If I need the latest kernel patch (eg the Intel bug fix), I should be able to simply update my source tree and compile a new kernel. PERIOD. NOTHING else should have to be changed. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 03:56:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA12347 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA12305 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:55:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA25661; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:54:25 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712061054.LAA25661@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Why FIONREAD has no dual for write ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:54:25 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think I already brought this out but recent discussion on mpegtv suggests to bring this out again. FIONREAD tells you how many bytes you can read before blocking. There is no FIONWRITE call (how many bytes you can write before blocking) which would be nice to have, instead of having to resort to non-blocking writes. And there is no FIOWQUEUED call (or similar name) to tell how many bytes are queued for I/O on a given descriptor. The latter could be used e.g. in audio drivers to extract sync information from the driver itself. Or on sockets/pipes, to decide whether there is a risk that the pipe runs dry. Are these only necessary for real-time purposes ? And even in that case, since pseudo real-time apps are coming out (e.g. audio/video, driving a CD writer, etc.) wouldn't it be worthwile adding them ? Implementation would be rather trivial in many cases (for audio they are already there under a different name; for sockets it suffices to check the socket buffer size, ...) Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 06:55:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23295 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23284 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA18581; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:55:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25505; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:15:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id KAA15170; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:01:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:01:06 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199712061501.KAA15170@lakes.dignus.com> To: ivt@gamma.ru, nectar@NECTAR.COM Subject: Re: panic: blkfree: freeling free block/frag Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a FreeBSD-INN list or something similar? There oughter be. I'd > subscribe. > > Jacques Vidrine > > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Igor Timkin wrote: > > > Every 4-8 days my news server (~10 full incoming feeds, ~50 > > outgoing feeds) crash: > > panic: blkfree: freeing free block > > or > > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > > > > I have a P6-200 rinning on a ASUS P65UP5+C-P6ND (BIOS rev. 2.05), > > with 512M ECC of RAM (with David Greenman patch). > > news spool is 6x4G Barracuda (ST15150W) CCD across two 2940UW. This is very reminiscent of my "Daily panic"s which I used to get on a full news server. I never saw the "freeing free frag" but I frequently saw the "freeing free block" panic. Do you also get "dup alloc" panics? Anyway, suffice it to say that we've been bird-dogging this problem for quite some time (since 2.1 came out.) It has been a bear to track down. And, unfortunately, I lost my news feed; so I don't get it every day. [Although, I can reproduce a problem that is suspiciously similar on a stand-alone 386.] The more info we can get, the better. - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 07:29:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25076 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:29:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from crocus.gamma.ru (crocus.gamma.ru [193.124.255.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25071 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:29:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ivt@crocus.gamma.ru) Received: (from ivt@localhost) by crocus.gamma.ru (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA16566; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:28:41 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199712061528.SAA16566@crocus.gamma.ru> Subject: Re: panic: blkfree: freeling free block/frag In-Reply-To: <199712061501.KAA15170@lakes.dignus.com> from Thomas David Rivers at "Dec 6, 97 10:01:06 am" To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:28:41 +0300 (MSK) Cc: ivt@gamma.ru, nectar@NECTAR.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Igor Timkin" Organization: Gamma Ltd., Moscow, Russia X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thomas David Rivers writes: > > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Igor Timkin wrote: > > > > > Every 4-8 days my news server (~10 full incoming feeds, ~50 > > > outgoing feeds) crash: > > > panic: blkfree: freeing free block > > > or > > > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > > > > > > I have a P6-200 rinning on a ASUS P65UP5+C-P6ND (BIOS rev. 2.05), > > > with 512M ECC of RAM (with David Greenman patch). > > > news spool is 6x4G Barracuda (ST15150W) CCD across two 2940UW. > > This is very reminiscent of my "Daily panic"s which I used to get > on a full news server. I never saw the "freeing free frag" but I > frequently saw the "freeing free block" panic. Do you also get > "dup alloc" panics? Never. 30% - freeing free block, 70% - freeing free frag. Today I was get next on turn panic (I was started expire for reduce of the used spool disk space and I was sure of the panic). Now I'll make dump/newfs/restore for spool. > Anyway, suffice it to say that we've been bird-dogging this problem > for quite some time (since 2.1 came out.) It has been a bear to track I have 2.1.5 and 2.2.2 long time and have't such problems. This problem was arised after several panics (I have some problems with hardware upgrade). The Terry's suggestion look like trust in my case. > down. And, unfortunately, I lost my news feed; so I don't get it > every day. [Although, I can reproduce a problem that is suspiciously > similar on a stand-alone 386.] The more info we can get, the better. > > - Dave Rivers - > > > Igor From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 07:35:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25490 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:35:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25483 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:35:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14305; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:35:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:35:01 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The 'Stable' status of freeBSD-stable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > I agree. The change of interface should have been caused a bump to 2.3. > If I need the latest kernel patch (eg the Intel bug fix), I should > be able to simply update my source tree and compile a new kernel. PERIOD. > NOTHING else should have to be changed. On that note, has Intel's further nasty abomination^W^W^Wpatch be commited to 2.2.5-stable yet... I looked for it in the LINT kernel, but could not find it. -- David Cross ACS Consulatn From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 10:47:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05493 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:47:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [207.105.15.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05488; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:47:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24924; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@shockwave.com) Message-Id: <199712061846.KAA24924@precipice.shockwave.com> To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: Charles Mott , Doug White , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:41:09 PST." Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 10:46:37 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Writing a driver isn't. From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" Subject: Re: metricom & freebsd > FYI, someone pointed me at (wow!) a NetBSD STAR mode driver. That's close > enough that I may just get it up and running some time I'm flying off on a > plane somewhere. Interesting, Is that illegal (using a metricom on a plane I mean)? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 11:18:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07036 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:18:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07028 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@Haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA20728; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:17:58 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:17:58 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jacques Vidrine cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > Actually, who knows if SSH is _really_ safe? Have you checked with a > packet sniffer to see if everything is really encrypted all the time? > > Personally, I only use my computer from a serial console (they can sniff > modern monitors too easily). Never even across phone lines. Sometimes I > get nervous if I can't see the entire length of my serial cable!! > > :-) :-) > The parandoid are the paranoid. And why do you think snooping non-modern monitors is harder? > > Seriously it would be a boon to all if ssh was installed by default and > you had to work to get telnetd running ... of course I know this won't > happen. If only there were several good, free Windoze ssh > implementations. Like it is illeagal to export ssh from the US? Like there is no free ssh client for windows? > Jacques Vidrine > > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, David E. Cross wrote: > > IMO: sending the root password plaintext over the network at any time is a > > *NO*. I *only* use ssh to connect as root (even when su-ing), and only > > from a host I trust, and a binary I trust. I have learned the hard way > > not to compromise on neteork/system security. > > > > -- > > David Cross > > ACS Consultant > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 11:47:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08561 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:47:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08556 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:47:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06706 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:47:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712061947.LAA06706@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PCI chipset setup? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 11:47:08 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am not sure whats going on here. I don't see how having a a bt848 card installed would interfere with a matrox meteor;specially, if the cards work on Win95. The only thing that I can think of is that the VXPro+ chipset requires further initialization than what is being done on FreeBSD. Amancio roger@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk said: > Hi, I'm having both a Matrox Meteor and a Bt848 (VideoLogic > CaptivatorPCI) frame grabber. > Under Windoze95, both work fine together in the same PC. They did not > interfere with each other and I could even grab from both grabbers > simultaneously. > I'm now installed FreeBSD 2.2.5-release. However, I am getting some > problems. > First, I built a kernel with device meteor0 and did the MAKEDEV > meteor0 I got the matrox meteor working fine. I used the test program / > usr/share/examples/meteor/rgb16.c, grabbing at 320x200 and then at > 640x400, single frame mode. > Then I added the Brooktree 848 support with device bktr 0 and MAKEDEV > bktr0 > I tried the Matrox grab software again to check that the presence of > the Brooktree was not interfering with it. > The Matrox still grabs at 320x200 but at 640x400 I get one of the > following... a) complete hang b) a core dump (from the matrox grab > program) c) a image with video for the top 1/3rd and black for the > rest of the frame. d) as for c) followed by bus error when trying to > save a file I was editing with vi. > I've not installed your latest drivers yet. The machine is a K6-200 > with 32 Megs of RAM. VXPro+ chipset (one of the PCCHIPS boards). The > bus is clocked at 83, so the CPU runs at 208 MHz. > Any ideas? Roger Hardiman roger@cs.strath.ac.uk or > roger@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk University of Strathclyde,Dept of > Computer Science,Glasgow,Scotland From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 12:10:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09857 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:10:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09851 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:10:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA01414; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd001411; Sat Dec 6 12:01:46 1997 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:59:21 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: dave@ns.systemresc.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cy driver silo over flow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk not THIS julian.. On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 dave@ns.systemresc.com wrote: > > Julian... > > I thought you might be the person that had this problem but I could be > wrong... > > could you or someone be so kind as up upload the message with the fix > for the cyclades (cy) driver silo overflow problem...I have the Cyclades > SM16 and had saved the message only to findout it was a reply and not the > code that needed to be changed... > > dave... > > System Resource > Internet Provider > Buffalo, Niagara Falls NY > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 12:14:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10112 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:14:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10104; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:14:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27834; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:25:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd027805; Sat Dec 6 13:25:53 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28454; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:13:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712062013.NAA28454@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:13:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, tlambert@primenet.com, hsu@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <17481.881387632@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 5, 97 09:53:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think what Terry's confused about is the part of the license which > essentially attempts to disallow anyone from including the shared > libraries and/or headers in a form which allow completely different > applications to link against and use them. I think they attempt to prevent distribution of linkable non-static libraries unless you have an "Executive" license, which makes you a Motif Distributor. The real answer is "it depends on the developers license". Making something linkable so that you can link against the Motif libraries without paying a royalty to "the open group" is what they are attempting to disallow. OS vendors can bundle the cost of a shared library royalty in with the cost of the OS. Or they can do a "technology buy-in", like Novell did with NUC (the NetWare UNIX Client) and get a crosslicense so it costs them nothing for any of the other technology (Novell paid no royalty for distribution of Motif for UnixWare). If you allow developement, then you must pay for linkable images. In the shared library cost, that royalty cost is covered in the OS developement system (compilers, etc.). Otherwise you don't get the headers, even if you get the libs. You may statically link the application, so long as you do not expost the statically linked library for reuse by a third party. > I also have a slight advantage in this debate, having talked just a > couple of weeks ago to the Open Group managers who are in charge of > the Motif licensing issues, and they assured me that static linking, > as long as it wasn't for the express purpose of somehow "wrapping" the > development libraries in a way that could still be directly exploited > by another C/C++ programmer, is quite fine. I believe this is *precisely* what Jeffrey was asking "is this OK to do?" about, and for which I said "no". Agreeing with the managers you talked to: it's disallowed by the license. > I then asked them about > "moat", the Motif interface for TCL which allows one to do precisely > that in a TCL interpreter but is shippied static. They said that this > was fine too, and that they were in the process of making Motif's > license a fair bit easier to swallow from the whole static/dynamic > linking perspective (they weren't precise, but I got the feeling that > they may be focusing strictly on the header files in any future > "compliance enforcement" issues). This is interesting. Lesstif is well known to have read the header files in their developement effort (there are archived list messages to that effect). They may be starting to feel their presence a bit... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 12:36:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11612 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:36:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11598; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25072; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd025057; Sat Dec 6 13:36:25 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29082; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:35:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712062035.NAA29082@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:35:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, tlambert@primenet.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hsu@freebsd.org, hackers@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712052255.PAA12376@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Dec 5, 97 03:55:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This whole discussion came up back when the university of Ill was > distributing Mosaic. They were able to distribute a statically linked > copy of Mosaic because their license allowed them to do so. It was a > 1.1 Motif rather than a 1.2 (or maybe 1.2 rather than 2.0). Version doesn't matter. This has always been legal, if you have legally obtained libXm.a. There are three categories of users: 1) Vendors May legally distribute libXm.a and libXm.so.?.? and /usr/include/Xm/* to third parties on a royalty basis. 2) Developers Legally obtained through licenses libXm.a and libXm.so.?.? and /usr/include/Xm/*. They may compile including the headers and link against either library. They may not enable someone else to do so as well through distribution of libXm.so.?.? or /usr/include/Xm/* files. They may distribute libXm.a as part of a statically linked image which can not itself be used as a library (though it may implement a virtual machine). 3) End users May legally use code legally distributed by developers. May *not* link against libxm.a or libxm.so.?.?, since can not legally obtain /usr/include/Xm/*. This is the gross breakdown. There are other classes of use, such as royalty buy-outs (OSF/TOG bets you will sell less units than the buyout fee divided by the per unit royalty, and you bet you will sell more units), etc.. These gradations aren't useful for judging license violation. While theoretically possible, a royalty buy-out for full Motif distribution, unhampered, would cost more than SCO paid for USL. Jeffrey was talking about trying to find a way to link such that people in category 3 can move to category 2 without violating license. My reading of the materials makes me believe that's not possible. The best you can do is make an interpreter, and it's still not clear that this wouldn't be covered under requirement for a royalty or royalty buy-out (Sun and SCO both have technology trade based royalty buyouts, as did Novell; this is basically the "trading card"/patent corsslicense approach, and unlikely to be possible for a small company). The short answer is that, without using an interpreted language, you can not legally develop Motif programs without paying a royalty of some kind to OSF/TOG, and you can not enable a third party to do so without them paying a royalty of some kind to OSF/TOG. The intent of their license is clear; if you go into "wheedle mode" on it, as soon as you start to make enough money for it to be a profitable endeavor, or as soon as you start cutting into the revenue stream even if you aren't making a profit, or as soon as it becomes a "due dilligence" issue, expect OSF/TOG to show up on your doorstep with a portable law office. And unlike the holes in the GPL, OSF/TOG has the money to make the spirit of the license stick, in court. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 12:37:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11706 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:37:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11698 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA07577; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:40:18 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma007574; Sat, 6 Dec 97 14:40:18 -0600 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:40:18 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Narvi cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Narvi wrote: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > The parandoid are the paranoid. And why do you think snooping non-modern > monitors is harder? It was a joke. I was kidding. Tongue-in-cheek. > Like it is illeagal to export ssh from the US? It hasn't been tested. As far as I know, it was written outside of the US, but that doesn't mean that you can't re-export it. > Like there is no free ssh > client for windows? Not of which I know. There is F-SECURE SSH for Windows from Data Fellows, a commercial product. Jacques Vidrine From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 13:28:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15211 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:28:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15200 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:28:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26605; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:28:36 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA07105; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:28:12 +0100 (MET) To: Jacques Vidrine Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access References: From: Eivind Eklund Date: 06 Dec 1997 22:28:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jacques Vidrine's message of Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:32:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <8667p240wk.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.52/XEmacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacques Vidrine writes: > Actually, who knows if SSH is _really_ safe? Have you checked with a > packet sniffer to see if everything is really encrypted all the time? > > Personally, I only use my computer from a serial console (they can sniff > modern monitors too easily). Never even across phone lines. Sometimes I > get nervous if I can't see the entire length of my serial cable!! > > :-) :-) Serial cables are the easiest to tap by radio, IIRC - easier than monitors. Guess what? Your keyboard cable can be tapped by radio easily. Fiber can be tapped by somebody with physical access; I'm not certain if this tech is available to ordinary civilians. The demonstration I got a report from was by the norwegian military (but open to the public). Encryption is the way to go. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 13:32:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15426 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:32:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kai.communique.net (Kai.communique.net [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15421 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:32:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@NECTAR.COM) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.communique.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA07756; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:34:49 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: kai.communique.net: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.communique.net via smap (V2.0) id xma007753; Sat, 6 Dec 97 15:34:32 -0600 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:34:32 -0600 (CST) From: Jacques Vidrine X-Sender: nectar@kai.communique.net To: Eivind Eklund cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <8667p240wk.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone have an ssh that runs on today's common keyboard controllers ? :-) Jacques Vidrine On 6 Dec 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: [snip] > Serial cables are the easiest to tap by radio, IIRC - easier than > monitors. Guess what? Your keyboard cable can be tapped by radio > easily. [snip] > Encryption is the way to go. > > Eivind. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 14:34:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19945 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:34:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19936 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:33:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.1/nospam) with UUCP id XAA05429 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:33:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id XAA08001; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:08:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971206230844.34797@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:08:44 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I buy a Cyrix processor? References: <199712052325.PAA22536@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712052325.PAA22536@hub.freebsd.org>; from Andrew Atrens on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 04:58:00PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3861 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Andrew Atrens: > I've got a K6-200 and I'm sad to say this particular chip is not > overclockable. Even with the big fan, grease, and huge-mother-heat-sink > it still locks up. You probably need to run it at 3.2V instead of the usual 2.9V. My K6-166 has been happily running at 2.5x 83 MHz for months. 225 MHz (2.5x 75 MHz) worked at 2.9V but I needed to push it at 3.2V for 83 MHz. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #18: Tue Nov 25 22:32:12 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 15:09:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22394 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:09:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from seidata.com (seidata.com [206.160.242.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22378 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:09:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA09604; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:09:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:09:55 -0500 (EST) From: Mike To: Alex cc: John-Mark Gurney , Jaye Mathisen , Jim Bryant , ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Alex wrote: > Actually it doesn't really even prevent that. Su just adds more > detailed logging of the attempts, which are more likely (IMO) to draw > attention. Keep in mind that only users in group wheel will be able to su... So, while not completely preventing this, it greatly limits *who* can brute force root to those people you trust enough to allow in the wheel group. // Mike // SEI Data Network Services, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 15:17:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA23086 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:17:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23077; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:17:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA08510; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:17:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA06878; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:17:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199712062317.QAA06878@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), mike@smith.net.au, hsu@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-Reply-To: <199712062013.NAA28454@usr04.primenet.com> References: <17481.881387632@time.cdrom.com> <199712062013.NAA28454@usr04.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I think what Terry's confused about is the part of the license which > > essentially attempts to disallow anyone from including the shared > > libraries and/or headers in a form which allow completely different > > applications to link against and use them. > > I think they attempt to prevent distribution of linkable non-static > libraries unless you have an "Executive" license, which makes you > a Motif Distributor. Actually, according to the JDK license Sun's grants you 'all rights and priveleges' to it's technology in order to make use of it's product, so Jeff is trying to do something with it he could arguably have legal ground to stand on. (Sun gives away SPARC Motif1.2 in ther JDK sources which can be obtained for free. But, aside from legalities the real issue hasn't been answered. Is it *technically* possible to link in a 'static' library into a 'shared' library so that the end-user doesn't need a Motif library to get access to the shared library? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 16:12:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26888 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:12:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26869; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01594; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:15:42 +1100 (EST) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199712070015.LAA01594@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-Reply-To: <199712062317.QAA06878@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 6, 97 04:17:06 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:15:41 +1100 (EST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, hsu@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@hub.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote: > But, aside from legalities the real issue hasn't been answered. Is it > *technically* possible to link in a 'static' library into a 'shared' > library so that the end-user doesn't need a Motif library to get access > to the shared library? Yes (I think 8-). You still use ld -Bshareable so that you get a shared object, but you list the Motif static libraries with the objects that you link into your shared library. The linker (should) then resolve all Motif references in your shared library, leaving the X11 ones as external references to the X shared libraries. Just don't use the -l option to search for libraries because ld will try to translate these to shared libraries. Use an explicit reference like /usr/lib/X11/libXm.a > > > Nate > Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 16:13:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26971 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:13:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26928; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:13:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hsu) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:13:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199712070013.QAA26928@hub.freebsd.org> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? Cc: hackers@hub.freebsd.org, tlambert@primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > while the StarOffice situation is slightly different. They have all > their GUI components in a shared library which is used by all their > applications. In order to avoid having to distribute the Motif shared > library with their stuff, they include all the Motif functions in the > aforementioned library. That is what I was trying to do. The 2 points I was asking are o How to do this technically. You get the dreaded RSS relocation error messages when trying to statically link libXm.a functions into a shared library. I now believe this is not possible. o Does this qualify as static linking for redistribution purposes? If I pulled functions out of libXm.so and combined them into my liba.so, then the answer is obviously no. Pulling functions out of libXm.a does not appear to be technically feasible (point one above). So it appears that this solution loses on both points. Linking Motif routines statically into the final executable (rather than an intermediate shared library) does work okay. I guess I'll have to do it that way. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 16:19:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27545 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:19:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27468; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:18:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hsu) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:18:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199712070018.QAA27468@hub.freebsd.org> To: jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? Cc: hackers@hub.freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > But, aside from legalities the real issue hasn't been answered. Is it > > *technically* possible to link in a 'static' library into a 'shared' > > library so that the end-user doesn't need a Motif library to get access > > to the shared library? > > Yes (I think 8-). You still use ld -Bshareable so that you get a shared > object, but you list the Motif static libraries with the objects that you > link into your shared library. The linker (should) then resolve all Motif > references in your shared library, leaving the X11 ones as external > references to the X shared libraries. > > Just don't use the -l option to search for libraries because ld will > try to translate these to shared libraries. Use an explicit reference > like /usr/lib/X11/libXm.a I tried that. You get the dreaded RSS relocation error messages because the routines in libXm.a weren't meant to be used in a shared library. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 16:31:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28547 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28525; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:31:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01664; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:35:13 +1100 (EST) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199712070035.LAA01664@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-Reply-To: <199712070018.QAA27468@hub.freebsd.org> from Jeffrey Hsu at "Dec 6, 97 04:18:59 pm" To: hsu@FreeBSD.ORG (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:35:12 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@hub.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeffrey Hsu wrote: > I tried that. You get the dreaded RSS relocation error messages because > the routines in libXm.a weren't meant to be used in a shared library. Oh yeah, I forgot about the fact that the functions in libXm.a would not have been compiled with -fpic. And (as you said in another message) without that, libXm.a can only be linked into a program, not PIC. Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 16:51:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00318 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:51:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00312 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:51:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jandrese@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28599; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from jandrese.async.vt.edu (jandrese.async.vt.edu [128.173.19.77]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA02079; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:51:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:51:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Andresen X-Sender: jandrese@jandrese.async.vt.edu To: Narvi cc: FreeBSD Hackers Listserv Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Narvi wrote: ~~Like it is illeagal to export ssh from the US? Like there is no free ssh ~~client for windows? ~~ What about ssh for Windows? http://public.srce.hr/~cigaly/ssh (or for a faster connection) ftp://hotline.pvt.net/pub/win_utils/winsock It's not very good, but it's free. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::. . . . . ..:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: Jason Andresen :. . . . . . . . . : I cna ytpe 300 wrods :: :: jandrese@vt.edu :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:: pre mniute! :: :.........................: Quote of the day :..........................: By perseverance the snail reached the Ark. -- Charles Spurgeon :::::::::::.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.........................:.:.:.:.:.:.:.::::::::::: From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 17:13:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01915 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01894 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:13:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA00728 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:12:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00304 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id RAA02916 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:23:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:23:36 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199712062223.RAA02916@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: F00F patch problems for 2.2.5-RELEASE (incomplete patch.) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well - I noticed on the Web site the "official" F00F fix for 2.2.5 had been supplied. I got it downloaded, and applied it to my 2.2.5-RELEASE kernel source tree... (with some questionable fuzz-factors and line offsets), only to find it didn't work. That is, the F00F_HACK wasn't enabled. For example, the patch to machdep.c has: #if defined(I586_CPU) && !define(NO_F00F_HACK) which one would suppose to be fine. But... the 2.2.5 release of machdep.c doesn't include "opt_cpu.h", thus, I586_CPU isn't defined... so the F00F workaround doesn't get compiled in... (perhaps somewhere after the 2.2.5-RELEASE cut, this include was added?) trap.c suffers from this problem as well. The following diff to machdep.c and trap.c fixes the patch... - Dave Rivers - *** machdep.c~ Sat Dec 6 17:07:23 1997 --- machdep.c Sat Dec 6 17:10:33 1997 *************** *** 45,50 **** --- 45,51 ---- #include "opt_machdep.h" #include "opt_perfmon.h" #include "opt_userconfig.h" + #include "opt_cpu.h" #include #include *** trap.c~ Sat Dec 6 16:16:41 1997 --- trap.c Sat Dec 6 17:11:03 1997 *************** *** 44,49 **** --- 44,50 ---- #include "opt_ktrace.h" #include "opt_ddb.h" + #include "opt_cpu.h" #include #include From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 17:13:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01955 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:13:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01936 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:13:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id RAA04103; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:16:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:16:04 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199712070116.RAA04103@dog.farm.org> To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.5 problems Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199712021906.LAA29599@bubba.whistle.com> you wrote: > Julian Elischer writes: > > Archie Cobbs wrote: > > > > > > 0. Boot FreeBSD > > > 1. I have VT1 - VT6 with getty login screens, so X appears on VT7 > > > 2. CTL-ALT-F5 and login as "archie" on VT5. Start X running. > > > 3. Screen flashes VT1 briefly, then video resets and displays X screen > > > 4. CTL-ALT-F4 to get to VT4 and login as "root" > > > 5. Run command "xwin", which is an alias that pops two root > > > windows up on the X console. > > > > what's wrong with just running 'startx' to start X AND start some > > xterms? > > integrates steps 2,3,4 & 5 > Nothing. I already have a workaround; that's not the point. > We're trying to identify a bug. to add to this: I _always_ had the problem with syscons driver locking up keyboard completely while X server is starting and I press alt-ctrl-Fn to switch to text screen. I had this problem on _all_ freebsd machines running X that I ever had, back to 2.1 days, up to 2.2-stable with XFree 3.3. one more test case is this: run xdm with local X server, or run X server from init (in /etc/ttys); { switch to X server screen (e.g., alt-ctrl-F4); kill X server by ctrl-alt-backspace while server is restarting, try to return to text screen by alt-ctrl-F1 (here, timing is somehow important; you should press these keys _while_ the new server is starting) } or { switch to text screen (alt-ctrl-f1); kill X server process; the server is restarting, switching console for you (that's a bug in X server, IMHO) - just after it switched screens, press alt-ctrl-f1 } screen switching locked - all ctrl-alt-Fn keys beep. still can work in X. maybe that's a different bug. anyway, this behaviour is quite annoying, and have yet to see any freebsd system which does not have this problem. I never run xinit / startx because it requires setuid X servers and is obsolete program anyway, so I don't know whether this problem occurs with it. > > > 6. CTL-ALT-F7 to get VT7 back to X, ready to happily get to work. > > that should be not > > > > I assume this is a typo? > No typo.. CTL-ALT-F7 is what I use (and it works). It's too hard > to think about in real time whether or not to add the CTL part, > so I just always add it (IMHO it should be CTL-ALT anyway for > consistency). -- quote of the day: ` From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 17:49:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04157 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:49:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from tarkin.qualcomm.com (tarkin.qualcomm.com [129.46.111.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04152 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:49:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rmallory@qualcomm.com) Received: (from rmallory@localhost) by tarkin.qualcomm.com (8.8.5/1.4/8.7.2/1.13) id RAA08186; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:41:56 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Mallory Message-Id: <199712070141.RAA08186@tarkin.qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-Reply-To: <199712060250.VAA00415@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Dec 5, 97 09:50:16 pm" To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:41:56 -0800 (PST) Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, matthew@netsol.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au, ajones@ctron.com, hackers@freebsd.org, jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu, shivers@ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Coolness. AFS is heavily used at my work(150GB/9 servers); I actualy hate AFS for a number of reasons, but it would be cool to have a FreeBSD client. We don't have any source-code licenses, but could provide a good test environment. What I'm extremly interested in is looking over John's shoulder while he does the ioctl and vnode interface stuff in /sys/afs... I've almost had a working CODA kernel off of -current about 2 months ago. ...Maybe I'll shake the dust off and try to get it working again. Rob [rmallory@Qualcomm.com] > David E. Cross said: > > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, matt wrote: > > > > I am curious to know who has AFS client licenses, server licenses, and > > source licenses... and for what versions. > > > > (I have access to source and client for binaries and source for all of the > > 3.4 seriers, and some 3.3) > > > I don't have any licenses, but can likely help with interface stubs and > requirements for FreeBSD. If anyone can provide me with a license, I'll > sign an NDA or whatever is needed. > -- > John > dyson@freebsd.org In another mail Robert Watson said: : AFS also evolved into Coda, which is free, and has neat things like : replicated write, excellent disconnected/mobile support, etc, and has : NetBSD and Linux ports. http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ : : Robert Watson From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 17:57:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04767 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:57:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04756 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:57:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29662; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:58:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712070158.RAA29662@implode.root.com> To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: F00F patch problems for 2.2.5-RELEASE (incomplete patch.) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:23:36 EST." <199712062223.RAA02916@lakes.dignus.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:58:48 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But... the 2.2.5 release of machdep.c doesn't include "opt_cpu.h", >thus, I586_CPU isn't defined... so the F00F workaround doesn't get >compiled in... (perhaps somewhere after the 2.2.5-RELEASE cut, this >include was added?) This was fixed yesterday in 2.2-stable by jmg. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 18:26:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06741 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:26:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06726 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:26:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id VAA11570; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:23:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199712070223.VAA11570@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: AFS for FreeBSD - OK, I think we're ready! In-Reply-To: <199712070141.RAA08186@tarkin.qualcomm.com> from Rob Mallory at "Dec 6, 97 05:41:56 pm" To: rmallory@qualcomm.com (Rob Mallory) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:23:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, matthew@netsol.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, peter@rhiannon.clari.net.au, ajones@ctron.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu, shivers@ai.mit.edu From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rob Mallory said: > > What I'm extremly interested in is looking over John's shoulder > while he does the ioctl and vnode interface stuff in /sys/afs... > I've almost had a working CODA kernel off of -current about 2 months ago. > ...Maybe I'll shake the dust off and try to get it working again. > I just took a look at the CODA stuff, and noticed the FreeBSD name in some of it. It really shouldn't be too hard to get it working, but I don't know enough to accurately make that judgement. If you have some work that appears to be close, maybe I can help and take a look at it? (I only have about 10% time to work on it :-(, but I do think that this is important.) -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 6 22:45:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19748 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:45:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp9.portal.net.au [202.12.71.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19732; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:45:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00701; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:10:08 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712070640.RAA00701@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), mike@smith.net.au, hsu@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:17:06 PDT." <199712062317.QAA06878@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 17:10:07 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But, aside from legalities the real issue hasn't been answered. Is it > *technically* possible to link in a 'static' library into a 'shared' > library so that the end-user doesn't need a Motif library to get access > to the shared library? Fairly obviously, no. Shared libraries are built PIC, as their load address is not known (and may vary across different mappings of a given copy). Static libraries are fixed up at link time, as offsets in them are relative to their position in the executable, which is loaded at a known (fixed) address. mike