From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 2 19:32:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25068 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.mrtc.org [199.4.33.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25062; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:32:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) id RAA11921; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 17:35:01 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199703030335.RAA11921@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: ARGH! can we get some working tape changer code commited PLEASE!? To: scsi@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 17:35:00 -1000 (HST) Cc: tim@mail.futuresouth.com, thorpej@and.com, gibbs@freebsd.org From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What would it take to get working tape changing code in current? (2.2 would be ideal but at the moment I will take what I can get.) Code was submitted by Jason Thorpe as "Problem Report kern/120" way back in October. Linux, NetBSD, and OpenBSD(?) have working tape changer code and with very nice tape changers for $300-700 on the market now I know I am personally seeing more people buying them. Thanks, David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 3 00:03:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA09766 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 00:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (bsdscsi@shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA09748 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 00:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bsdscsi@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id KAA01714 for freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:01:48 +0200 (EET) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199703030801.KAA01714@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: scsi prob in 2.1.7? To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:01:48 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i got this message probably while machine was running daily... Mar 2 02:01:10 pluto /kernel: sd1(ahc0:1:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Mar 2 02:01:21 pluto /kernel: SEQADDR == 0x10 Mar 2 02:01:21 pluto /kernel: Abort Message Sent Mar 2 02:01:21 pluto /kernel: sd1(ahc0:1:0): timed out in message out phase, SCSISIGI == 0x0 SEQADDR == 0x0 Mar 2 02:01:21 pluto /kernel: sd1(ahc0:1:0): abort message in message buffer fatal? serious? worrying? notified? just a feature? before upgrading to 2.1.7 i got bit different messages Feb 21 11:45:01 pluto /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): timed out in dataout phase, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Feb 21 11:45:01 pluto /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): BUS DEVICE RESET message queued. Feb 21 11:45:01 pluto /kernel: Bus Device Reset Message Sent Feb 21 11:45:01 pluto /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Bus Device Reset delivered. 2 SCBs aborted Feb 21 11:45:01 pluto /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,3 Feb 21 11:45:01 pluto /kernel: , retries:4 but i havent seen those ever since... with these the drive changed, and i got about one per week, sometimes more, couldnt figure out exactly what did generate it... the message i got now was the first time after running 2.1.7 a week... pluto# dmesg FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE #0: Fri Feb 21 17:27:25 1997 root@pluto.supsys.fi:/usr/src/sys/compile/SUPSYS_SERVER CPU: 167-MHz Pentium 735\\90 or 815\\100 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52c Stepping=12 Features=0x1bf real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) Physical memory hole(s): avail memory = 127860736 (124864K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 1 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 vga0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:8 de0 rev 18 int a irq 10 on pci0:9 de0: SMC 9332 DC21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 de0: address 00:00:c0:9e:7e:e5 de0: enabling 10baseT port chip3 rev 2 on pci0:10 Probing for devices on PCI bus 1: ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci1:4 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc0: Someone reset channel A (ahc0:0:0): "FUJITSU M2952S-512 0124" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 2291MB (4693462 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:1:0): "FUJITSU M2952S-512 0124" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 2291MB (4693462 512 byte sectors) ahc1 rev 0 int a irq 12 on pci1:5 ahc1: aic7880 Wide Channel B, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc1 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc1: Someone reset channel A (ahc1:0:0): "FUJITSU M2952S-512 0124" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(ahc1:0:0): Direct-Access 2291MB (4693462 512 byte sectors) (ahc1:1:0): "FUJITSU M2952S-512 0124" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd3(ahc1:1:0): Direct-Access 2291MB (4693462 512 byte sectors) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: scprobe: keyboard won't accept RESET command sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 not found at 0x3f8 sio1 not found at 0x2f8 psm0 not found at 0x60 fdc0: direction bit not set fdc0: cmd 3 failed at out byte 1 of 3 fdc0 not found at 0x3f0 wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 wdc1 not found at 0x170 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ccd0-15: Concatenated disk drivers IP firewall initialized, unlimited logging ccd0: mirror/parity forces uniform flag ccd1: mirror/parity forces uniform flag ccd5: mirror/parity forces uniform flag ccd6: mirror/parity forces uniform flag ccd7: mirror/parity forces uniform flag ccd8: mirror/parity forces uniform flag sd1(ahc0:1:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 SEQADDR == 0x10 Abort Message Sent sd1(ahc0:1:0): timed out in message out phase, SCSISIGI == 0x0 SEQADDR == 0x0 sd1(ahc0:1:0): abort message in message buffer pluto# cat /sys/i386/conf/SUPSYS_SERVER # $Id: SUPSYS_DESKTOP,v 1.00.0.05 1997/02/05 17:12:00 mickey Exp $ machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident SUPSYS_SERVER maxusers 128 options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus options "CHILD_MAX=256" options "OPEN_MAX=256" options IPFIREWALL options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE options USERCONFIG options VISUAL_USERCONFIG options PROBE_VERBOSE options QUOTA options "MAXMEM=262144" options "MAXCONS=16" options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG config kernel root on sd0 swap on sd0 and sd1 and sd2 and sd3 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM controller ahc0 controller ahc1 controller ahc2 controller scbus0 device sd0 device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" conflicts tty irq 12 vector psmin$ device de0 device de1 pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device ccd 16 pseudo-device pty 128 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 pseudo-device snp 3 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's mickey -- mika ruohotie mickey@supsys.fi mika@aeon.net From owner-freebsd-scsi Tue Mar 4 12:26:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA13717 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:26:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from nevis.oss.uswest.net (nevis.oss.uswest.net [204.147.85.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13701 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from greg@localhost) by nevis.oss.uswest.net (8.8.2/8.8.2) id OAA06915 for freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:25:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Greg Rowe" Message-Id: <9703041425.ZM6913@nevis.oss.uswest.net> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:25:48 -0600 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Adaptec 2940UW & timed out while idle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have had 4 crashes in the last 5 days on my one News server. The error messages are: Mar 3 21:08:44 news1 /kernel: sd14(ahc2:4:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE = = 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Mar 3 21:08:44 news1 /kernel: SEQADDR == 0x10 Mar 4 12:21:03 news1 /kernel: sd4(ahc1:1:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Mar 4 12:21:03 news1 /kernel: SEQADDR == 0x11 Each time they reference a different drive or controller. Unfortunately, I added drives to each controller and upgraded to 2.1.7 at the same time, so I'm not sure which change is causing the problem. Any ideas as to what to try ? Termination, cables, etc. have been checked on all drives. Thanks. Greg -- Greg Rowe | U S West - Interact Services | INTERNET greg@uswest.net 111 Washington Ave. South | Fax: (612) 672-8537 Minneapolis, MN USA 55401 | Voice: (612) 672-8535 Never trust an operating system you don't have source for.... From owner-freebsd-scsi Tue Mar 4 13:59:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA18406 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18400 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10966; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:59:31 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199703042159.OAA10966@narnia.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 To: "Greg Rowe" cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adaptec 2940UW & timed out while idle In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Mar 1997 14:25:48 CST." <9703041425.ZM6913@nevis.oss.uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 14:59:31 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The problem you are experiencing was fixed just after 2.1.7 was released. I would suggest upgrading to the driver that is in FreeBSD-stable and in fact tracking the -stable kernel as new changes to the driver are introduced. To get 90% of the effect of those changes, find the routine ahc_run_waiting_queue in the file sys/i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c and remove the if statements before the calls to "pause_sequencer" and "unpause_sequencer". You can also remove the comment above the pause_sequencer call that mentions "Auto Access Pause", since it is not reliable and is no longer used. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-scsi Wed Mar 5 08:50:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA27163 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:50:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.rinet.ru (gw.rinet.ru [194.87.171.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA27138; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by gw.rinet.ru id TAA29903; (8.6.11/vak/1.9) Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:49:34 +0300 From: marck@gw.rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) Message-Id: <199703051649.TAA29903@gw.rinet.ru> Subject: NCR 510 troubles To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:49:33 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello there. We've got news server (2.1.5, partially upgraded to .7 -- at least, kernel sources upgraded fully) with onboard ahc & additional ncr 510, which holds 3 disks with a ccd on it. ncr configured for 2 tags on bootup. After upgrading newsserver from cnews to inn, regularly, there are very sad things such as: Mar 5 16:38:50 gw2 /kernel: ncr0: restart (ncr dead ?). Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: , retries:3 Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd3(ncr0:0:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd3(ncr0:0:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred field replaceable unit: 14 Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: , retries:3 Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): FAST SCSI-2 125ns (8 Mb/sec) offset 8. Mar 5 16:38:57 gw2 /kernel: ncr0: restart (ncr dead ?). Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd3(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): FAST SCSI-2 125ns (8 Mb/sec) offset 8. Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd4(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd4(ncr0:1:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd4(ncr0:1:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred field replaceable unit: 14 Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: , retries:4 then system either crashes or one of ncr disks become missing. dmesg: FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE #0: Mon Feb 17 22:56:23 MSK 1997 marck@gw2.rinet.ru:/usr/src/sys/compile/newsx CPU: 133-MHz Pentium 735\\90 or 815\\100 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52c Stepping=12 Features=0x1bf real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 30789632 (30068K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 1 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:9 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ahc0:0:0): "CONNER CFP1060S 1.05GB 2135" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1013MB (2074880 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:1:0): "CONNER CFP2105S 2.14GB 2B4B" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 2048MB (4194304 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:2:0): "Quantum XP34300 81HB" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(ahc0:2:0): Direct-Access 4101MB (8399520 512 byte sectors) ncr0 rev 18 int a irq 15 on pci0:11 ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr0:0:0): "CONNER CFP1060S 1.05GB 245F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd3(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access sd3(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1010MB (2070400 512 byte sectors) (ncr0:1:0): "CONNER CFP1060S 1.05GB 2035" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd4(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access sd4(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1013MB (2074880 512 byte sectors) (ncr0:4:0): "QUANTUM EMPIRE_1080S 1101" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd5(ncr0:4:0): Direct-Access sd5(ncr0:4:0): FAST SCSI-2 125ns (8 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1029MB (2109376 512 byte sectors) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: scprobe: keyboard won't accept RESET command sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 on isa ed0: address 00:80:48:a9:42:ee, type NE2000 (16 bit) sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers Any proposals? Sincerely, D.Marck ======================================================================== === D.Marck --- Dmitry Morozovsky --- marck@rinet.ru --- Wild Woozle === ======================================================================== From owner-freebsd-scsi Wed Mar 5 15:28:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19323 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from os.inf.tu-dresden.de (os.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19301; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by os.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14076; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:20:54 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA23655; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:20:54 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA02175; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:57:15 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:57:15 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: marck@gw.rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) Cc: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NCR 510 troubles References: <199703051649.TAA29903@gw.rinet.ru> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703051649.TAA29903@gw.rinet.ru>; from Dmitry Morozovsky on Mar 5, 1997 19:49:33 +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: > After upgrading newsserver from cnews to inn, > regularly, there are very sad things such as: > > Mar 5 16:38:50 gw2 /kernel: ncr0: restart (ncr dead ?). > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: , retries:3 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd3(ncr0:0:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd3(ncr0:0:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred field replaceable unit: 14 Normally, this wouldn't even lead to a crash. I've got a flakey disk that i can often ``cure'' by powering it off... after which i also see the unit attention, where the next retry will get everything back online. If it crashes for you, and the unit attentions appear all of a sudden, i suspect you've got a broken (or overloaded) power supply. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-scsi Wed Mar 5 16:25:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24538 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24485; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:25:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA07675; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:54:45 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703060024.KAA07675@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: NCR 510 troubles In-Reply-To: <199703051649.TAA29903@gw.rinet.ru> from Dmitry Morozovsky at "Mar 5, 97 07:49:33 pm" To: marck@gw.rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:54:45 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dmitry Morozovsky stands accused of saying: > > After upgrading newsserver from cnews to inn, > regularly, there are very sad things such as: > > Mar 5 16:38:50 gw2 /kernel: ncr0: restart (ncr dead ?). > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: , retries:3 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd3(ncr0:0:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd3(ncr0:0:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred field replaceable unit: 14 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: , retries:3 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): FAST SCSI-2 125ns (8 Mb/sec) offset 8. > Mar 5 16:38:57 gw2 /kernel: ncr0: restart (ncr dead ?). > Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd3(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): FAST SCSI-2 125ns (8 Mb/sec) offset 8. > Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd4(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd4(ncr0:1:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 > Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: sd4(ncr0:1:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred field replaceable unit: 14 > Mar 5 16:38:58 gw2 /kernel: , retries:4 > > then system either crashes or one of ncr disks become missing. You don't say anything about your hardware setup (case, PSU, fans etc.), but I'd start by checking that your disks aren't overheating, that the PSU is holding up OK (with that many disks a 'normal' PC PSU just won't cut it). INN has much higher expectations of your disks than C-news does, and the extra work may be more than your farm can handle. Another item worth checking is your power supply connections, although with so many disks failing, unless you are using a mess of Y-splitter power cables I don't think that'd be the cause. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Mar 6 00:23:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA03706 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03701; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:23:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA11827; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:22:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:22:16 -0800 (PST) From: Pierre Omidyar X-Sender: pierre@shellx.best.com To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: new stable aic7xxx.c ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello all, We are running the release version of 2.1.7-RELEASE. We just did a cvsup for stable again, and retrieved several new files, including a new version of aic7xxx.c (and other assorted files): $Id: aic7xxx.c,v 1.29.2.32 1997/02/25 03:54:28 gibbs Exp $ Is this intended as an actual 2.1.7-STABLE addition? The reason I ask is that we have been plagued with numerous "timed out while idle" messages and freezes or panics ever since moving from 2.1.5 to 2.1.7. We have an Adaptec 2940UW hooked up to several Quantum Atlas drives (current rev of 915L). A few other sites have reported similar problems since moving from 2.1.5 to 2.1.7. And, the problem seems worse the more drives are on the SCSI bus. (We previously sent a more detailed description of what we were seeing to freebsd-stable.) Anyway, my hope is that this new version of the adaptec-related scsi drivers are intended to address this problem. But, we are aware that some files may make it into the cvsup-able stable distribution prior to their intended release, and I wanted to check here since I hadn't seen these changes mentioned on this list. (cc'd to freebsd-scsi as well, and apologies if this has been covered there previously.) Thanks for any help you may be able to offer. Regards, Pierre From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Mar 6 12:00:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07953 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07841; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr2-41.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA20411 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:59:39 +0100 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id UAA04017; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:58:56 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <19970306205735.TD54148@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:57:35 +0100 From: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser) To: marck@gw.rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NCR 510 troubles References: <199703051649.TAA29903@gw.rinet.ru> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199703051649.TAA29903@gw.rinet.ru>; from Dmitry Morozovsky on Mar 5, 1997 19:49:33 +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mar 5, marck@gw.rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) wrote: > Hello there. > > We've got news server (2.1.5, partially upgraded to .7 -- at least, kernel > sources upgraded fully) with onboard ahc & additional ncr 510, which holds 3 > disks with a ccd on it. ncr configured for 2 tags on bootup. > > After upgrading newsserver from cnews to inn, > regularly, there are very sad things such as: > > Mar 5 16:38:50 gw2 /kernel: ncr0: restart (ncr dead ?). > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 > Mar 5 16:38:51 gw2 /kernel: sd5(ncr0:4:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred > then system either crashes or one of ncr disks become missing. > (ahc0:0:0): "CONNER CFP1060S 1.05GB 2135" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > (ahc0:1:0): "CONNER CFP2105S 2.14GB 2B4B" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > (ahc0:2:0): "Quantum XP34300 81HB" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > (ncr0:0:0): "CONNER CFP1060S 1.05GB 245F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > (ncr0:1:0): "CONNER CFP1060S 1.05GB 2035" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > (ncr0:4:0): "QUANTUM EMPIRE_1080S 1101" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > Any proposals? Hmmm, this is quite a number of disk drives ... Are they all mounted in the same case and connected to the same power supply ? Are you sure, your power supply is capable of delivering sufficient 12V current, if all drives are seeking at a time ? I guess that your seek rate increased when switching from c-news to inn, and since you are using ccd, there is a very high probability, that all drives are seeking at the same instance of time. This may lead to current spikes, which possibly overload your power supply ... I have ordered a new play-ground system for NCR driver tests and development, which hopefully will be delivered soon (finally). Improving the recovery from error situations is on top of my ToDo list, actually. But my current job does in part depend on the fact, that my (currently only) system is working reliably and without disruption, and as you can imagine, this prevents me from doing any driver tests :) BTW: You should upgrade from 2.1.5, for various reasons, and you'll find, that the NCR driver has become more reliable in case of a transient hardware failure, than it used to be. This is in part due to changes in the generic SCSI code, and I'm not sure, whether those made it into 2.1.7, but at least under 2.2, many more error situations should not be fatal. Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-scsi Fri Mar 7 09:53:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03114 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from vic.cioe.com (ns1.cioe.com [204.120.165.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03105; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by vic.cioe.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA20405; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:51:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:51:41 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Ames Message-Id: <199703071751.MAA20405@vic.cioe.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Conner tapestor problems? Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a conner tapestor (TSM4000R) SCSI tape backup. Thats one of them QIC-3080 jobs. I'm using Sony QW3080XLF tapes (what the drive recommended). Problem seems to be that I'm only getting use about an eighth of the tape. I run the backup of my system and get an I/O error (or a screenful of MEDIUM errors). i use 'mt rewind' and the tape is definately rewound. I try to go to the end of the tape and look at it physically and its only gone about an eighth of the way (consistent with how far along in the dump process it gets before barfing...) Anyone got a clue for me? Seems i'm sorely in need of one.. -Steve From owner-freebsd-scsi Fri Mar 7 11:34:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08797 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:34:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08779 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id UAA23610 for scsi@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 20:01:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) id TAA02991; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:57:11 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970307195710.08931@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:57:10 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Still SCSI Bus resets with 2940 on FreeBSD-2.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.64_p3-9,11-13,16-17,20-23,25-27 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-GAMMA Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry to say this, but I still have serious trouble with my AHA 2940 when dumping data to my QIC Streamer (TDC-4222) and tagged command queuing is enabled. My FreeBSD kernel is of yesterday (cvsupped RELENG_2_2)... Here the last screenfull, hope it's useful: Ordered Tag queued sd0(ahc0:0:0): SCB 0x4 - timed out in command phase, SCSISIGI==0xc6 SEQADDR==0x5e sd0(ahc0:0:0): abort message in message buffer sd0(ahc0:0:0): SCB7 - Abort Completed sd0(ahc0:0:0): no longer in timeout Ordered Tag sent sd0(ahc0:0:0): SCB 0x4 - timed out in command phase, SCSISIGI==0xc6 SEQADDR==0x5e sd0(ahc0:0:0): abort message in message buffer sd0(ahc0:0:0): SCB6 - Abort Completed sd0(ahc0:0:0): no longer in timeout sd0(ahc0:0:0): no longer in timeout DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [regular files] sd0(ahc0:0:0): SCB 0x2 - timed out while idle, LASTPHASE==0x1,SCSISIGI==0x0 SEQADDR==0xc Ordered Tag queued sd0(ahc0:0:0): SCB 0x2 - timed out while idle, LASTPHASE==0x1,SCSISIGI==0x0 SEQADDR==0x11 sd0(ahc0:0:0): SCB 2: Immediate reset. Flags = 0x241 sd0(ahc0:0:0): no longer in timeout ahc0: Issued channel A Bus Reset. 2 SCBs aborted. After that the whole system freezes. >From dmesg: ahc0 rev 3 int a irq 15 on pci0:11 ahc0: aic7870 Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc0: target 0 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc0:0:0): "IBM DORS-32160 WA6A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 2063MB (4226725 512 byte sectors) sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 6703 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 126 sectors/track ahc0: target 1 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc0:1:0): "IBM DORS-32160 WA6A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 2063MB (4226725 512 byte sectors) sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 6703 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 126 sectors/track (ahc0:4:0): "TANDBERG TDC 4222 =07:" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st0(ahc0:4:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x0, 512-byte blocks, write-enabled (ahc0:6:0): "TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-3601TA 0725" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(ahc0:6:0): CD-ROM can't get the size My kernel config file: machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident BISDN maxusers 64 options INET #Internet communications protocols options FFS #Fast filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" options SCSI_DELAY=8 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options UCONSOLE #Allow ordinary users to take the # console - this is useful for X. options "MAXCONS=4" # Number of virtual SCO compat consoles options "MD5" options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about options "IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=100" #limit verbosity options TELES_HAS_MEMCPYB # bisdn 0.97 options SYSVSHM,SYSVSEM,SYSVMSG # System V shared memory ###options "IBCS2" # COFF binary compatibility options COMPAT_LINUX # Linux Binary compatibility options SHOW_BUSYBUFS # busy buffers on shutdown ? options AHC_TAGENABLE options AHC_SCBPAGING_ENABLE options AHC_ALLOW_MEMIO options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY options DDB options KTRACE #kernel tracing options MFS #Memory File System config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 # my hardwired scsi devices, they have always the same SCSI ID ! controller ahc0 controller scbus0 at ahc0 disk sd0 at scbus0 target 0 disk sd1 at scbus0 target 1 disk sd2 at scbus0 target 2 tape st0 at scbus0 target 4 device cd0 at scbus0 target 6 # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xcc000 vector edintr # Joystick device joy0 at isa? port "IO_GAME" pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device snp 3 #Snoop device - to look at pty/vty/etc.. pseudo-device gzip pseudo-device vn #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) #pseudo-device speaker # SB = SoundBlaster; PAS = ProAudioSpectrum; GUS = Gravis UltraSound # Controls all sound devices controller snd0 # SoundBlaster DSP driver - for SB, SB Pro, SB16, PAS(emulating SB) device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr # SoundBlaster 16 DSP driver - for SB16 - requires sb0 device device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 # SoundBlaster 16 MIDI - for SB16 - requires sb0 device device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 # Yamaha OPL-2/OPL-3 FM - for SB, SB Pro, SB16, PAS device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 #--------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # ISDN - parts of an example config file for bisdn # ------------------------------------------------ # # last edit-date: [Sun May 26 10:35:22 1996] # #--------------------------------------------------------------------------- options IPI_VJ # Van Jacobsen header compression support #options "IPI_DIPA=3" # send ip accounting packets every 3 seconds # Teles S0/16.3 ###################################################### IRQ 9 ## controller tel0 at isa? port 0xd80 net irq 9 vector telintr pseudo-device disdn pseudo-device isdn pseudo-device ipi 4 pseudo-device itel 2 pseudo-device ispy 1 -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-scsi Fri Mar 7 19:53:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA15912 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:53:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15889; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA01277 ; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:52:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA00893; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:51:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White X-Sender: dwhite@localhost Reply-To: Doug White To: Steve Ames cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Conner tapestor problems? In-Reply-To: <199703071751.MAA20405@vic.cioe.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Steve Ames wrote: > I have a conner tapestor (TSM4000R) SCSI tape backup. Thats one of them > QIC-3080 jobs. I'm using Sony QW3080XLF tapes (what the drive recommended). We have one of these. It works great! > Problem seems to be that I'm only getting use about an eighth of the tape. > I run the backup of my system and get an I/O error (or a screenful of > MEDIUM errors). > > i use 'mt rewind' and the tape is definately rewound. I try to go to the > end of the tape and look at it physically and its only gone about an eighth > of the way (consistent with how far along in the dump process it gets before > barfing...) > > Anyone got a clue for me? Seems i'm sorely in need of one.. New tape? Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-scsi Sat Mar 8 20:46:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA25021 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 20:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA25015 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 20:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from imp by rover.village.org with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0w3aV6-0007Ci-00; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:46:24 -0700 To: scsi@freebsd.org Subject: aha-1522A Message-Id: From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:46:24 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings, several months ago I reported odd failures with this 1522 that I have here (and the 1522A). Well, I just got them both working, in another machine. I believe that the problem was due to the Packard Bell hardware being every bit as horrible as people will have you believe rather than the drivers themselves. Both 2.1.6 and 2.2 gamma (feb 25?) were able to work well enough to boot. There were some problems when I tried to shutdown, but that was likely due to using a machine that didn't have an ethernet connection booting from a disk that expected one... It will be a while before I get the new mb to replace the packard hell machine, but I'll keep people informed. Warner "Don't even be tempted to think about buying packard bell" Losh