From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 07:21:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA14177 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 07:21:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dragon.awen.com (dragon.awen.com [207.33.155.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA14172 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 07:21:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mburgett@dragon.awen.com) Received: (from mburgett@localhost) by dragon.awen.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA05883; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 07:21:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711231521.HAA05883@dragon.awen.com> From: "Mike Burgett" To: "stable@freebsd.org" Date: Sun, 23 Nov 97 07:21:46 -0800 Reply-To: "Mike Burgett" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: re: nfs and mounting more than once. Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >If anyone is feeling adventurous, I'd like to get feedback about any >unintended side effects. I run a simple system here, with no union mounts, >diskless clients or any other stuff that this could break. :) Before anyone misunderstands my intent, with that message from yesterday, it's not intended as any kind of submission or request to be considered for such. My intent was to possibly get wider testing feedback than I can do here, and some constructive suggestions from folks who understand the vfs code. Thanks, Mike From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 15:29:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA10579 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 15:29:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10574 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 15:29:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26984; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:28:51 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id AAA17394; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:28:47 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:28:47 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199711232328.AAA17394@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Nate Williams CC: mike@smith.net.au, chad@dcfinc.com, rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Nate Williams's message of Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:21:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Version Resolution? References: <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> <199711202300.JAA00612@word.smith.net.au> <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means > > that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing > > the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. > > This file then increases w/out bounds, which is unacceptable. Why? Seriously; I don't consider expanding files a good thing, but I actually can't see that this is a problem in this case. The CVS repository is increasing 'without bounds' already; we have much more data added each day than this. I don't see that this bloat is that serious. (I don't like the solution, but I don't see it as a fatal flaw - we can, if necessary, nuke the file w/history with regular intervals). Eivind. From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 16:03:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14098 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 16:03:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14078 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 16:03:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19921; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 18:03:15 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711232328.AAA17394@bitbox.follo.net> References: Nate Williams's message of Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:21:17 -0700 <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> <199711202300.JAA00612@word.smith.net.au> <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 18:03:36 -0600 To: Eivind Eklund From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means >> > that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing >> > the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. >> >> This file then increases w/out bounds, which is unacceptable. > >Why? > >Seriously; I don't consider expanding files a good thing, but I >actually can't see that this is a problem in this case. The CVS >repository is increasing 'without bounds' already; we have much more >data added each day than this. I don't see that this bloat is that >serious. (I don't like the solution, but I don't see it as a fatal >flaw - we can, if necessary, nuke the file w/history with regular >intervals). That is, in effect, what I do. The only problem is that Nate INSISTS that we must AUTOMATICALLY recognize new branches. He is somehow afraid that someone might mess up the RCS template if they were to do it manually. I don't accept his arguments. There are already plenty of ways that people already cause problems when they make a mistake. I feel that holding this code to a higher standard is unwarranted. He also rejects the claim that the changes occur only once or twice a year. However, I leave it to the reader to examine the branch point dates of 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 and today's date. I refuse to spend the extra effort to automate this function when we have not even established that the overall methodology will be something that is actually retained. I argue that we should install the code as things are and, based on actual experience, see what changes are needed. Once the scheme is stable, the automation can be added as an enhancement. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 19:03:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26197 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 19:03:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26191 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 19:03:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA18420; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:03:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA21771; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:03:36 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:03:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199711240303.UAA21771@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Eivind Eklund , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> <199711202300.JAA00612@word.smith.net.au> <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> <199711232328.AAA17394@bitbox.follo.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >serious. (I don't like the solution, but I don't see it as a fatal > >flaw - we can, if necessary, nuke the file w/history with regular > >intervals). > > That is, in effect, what I do. The only problem is that Nate INSISTS > that we must AUTOMATICALLY recognize new branches. He is somehow > afraid that someone might mess up the RCS template if they were to > do it manually. No, the RCS file *will* be corrupted when a branch is built until the RCS 'template' builder is updated, which will totally hose CVS up when the underlying RCS file changes *totally* out from under it. I've explained how it happens both publically and privately, so you're just acting like a baby by bringing it up over and over again. Please act like an adult and not like a spoiled child. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 19:21:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27265 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 19:21:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from saturn.vision.net.au (saturn.vision.net.au [203.17.23.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27257 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 19:21:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from craig@natsoft.com.au) Received: from Win95.my.domain (portA3a.vision.net.au [203.17.23.158]) by saturn.vision.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13486 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:21:14 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <34798D44.BA8@natsoft.com.au> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:20:52 +0000 From: Craig Wilson Organization: National Software Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Stability Of FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD-ROM Release Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk National Software Pty Ltd is a computer software company situated in Tasmania, Australia which developes multi-user accounting software. National Software Pty Ltd has a client base of over 550. Over the last 12 months I have been recommending to my Unix clients that they use FreeBSD in preferance to SCO Unix as their operating system. I have compiled the NATSOFT range of software to run under FreeBSD. I now have 13 individual clients running FreeBSD on 26 computer systems. They are running versions from 2.1.6 to 2.2.2 I have found FreeBSD to be a very reliable and stable operating system. Credit must be given to the FreeBSD team for a very good product. As National Software is a commercial entity there is no time available for make world etc on each computer that FreeBSD is installed on, and because clients computers are placed all over the place it is not possible to keep their operating systems current. The operating system should be stable as installed from the CD-ROM with a minimum of patches, otherwise it is unusable. When a FreeBSD system is installed I first install from the CD-ROM release (binaries and kernal sources only), then tar a floppy of configuration files & patched source files over the installed system, modify any kernal parameters, and then rebuild the kernel. This makes installation a fast process. It is important that the operating system is stable, and from the mailing lists I am not sure whether the 2.2.5 CD-ROM release is stable ie the VM lookup (kern/4844) problem. Could you please comment, and perhaps advise of any known stability problems with the 2.2.5 release and the files/patches that would be needed to cure any problems, or am I best to stay with 2.2.2, which has been very stable, and wait for 2.2.6 to be released. I have a FreeBSD subscription. Thanks in advance for any information you may be able to give me, and thanks to the team for a great operating system. Regards, Craig Wilson National Software Pty.Ltd. -------------------------- From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 20:00:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00355 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:00:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00350 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:00:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA28304; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 02:16:03 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: Eivind Eklund , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Nov 1997 18:03:36 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 02:16:03 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [.....] > I argue that we should install the code as things are and, based on > actual experience, see what changes are needed. Once the scheme is > stable, the automation can be added as an enhancement. I'd tend to agree. If something better comes up, it can be flogged to death too ;-I > Richard Wackerbarth > > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 20:04:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00575 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:04:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00570 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:04:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA20417; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:03:50 -0800 (PST) To: Craig Wilson cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stability Of FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD-ROM Release In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:20:52 GMT." <34798D44.BA8@natsoft.com.au> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:03:50 -0800 Message-ID: <20412.880344230@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > or am I best to stay with 2.2.2, which has been very stable, and wait > for 2.2.6 to be released. I have a FreeBSD subscription. Well, while I've no doubt that someone on this list could quickly pipe up with a fix for kern/4844 and, most likely, any other open PRs you might be concerned about, I still have to question any desire to upgrade a system which is working just fine the way it is. :-) To put it another way, there are always a large number of hypothetical reasons both for and against upgrading to any new release of FreeBSD, and in the final analysis it's really much more down to how a given release is doing for *you* and in your environment. I know of folks who are still happily running FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 today and have absolutely no intention of changing that fact for the simple reason that 1.1.5.1 works just fine for them and, not being broken, is nothing that they care to fix. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 20:36:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02494 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:36:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from saturn.vision.net.au (saturn.vision.net.au [203.17.23.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02484 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:36:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from craig@natsoft.com.au) Received: from Win95.my.domain (portA39.vision.net.au [203.17.23.157]) by saturn.vision.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23777; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:35:45 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <34799EBD.676C@natsoft.com.au> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:35:25 +0000 From: Craig Wilson Organization: National Software Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stability Of FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD-ROM Release References: <20412.880344230@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > or am I best to stay with 2.2.2, which has been very stable, and wait > > for 2.2.6 to be released. I have a FreeBSD subscription. > > Well, while I've no doubt that someone on this list could quickly pipe > up with a fix for kern/4844 and, most likely, any other open PRs you > might be concerned about, I still have to question any desire to > upgrade a system which is working just fine the way it is. :-) > Jordan, Thank you for your response. I have no intention of upgrading any existing clients unless they require something not supported by their version of FreeBSD, this is why my clients are running versions 2.1.6 to 2.2.2. The clients would not like the downtime to complete the upgrade anyhow. I agree if it works don't change it. The query was for any NEW installations that I may be installing. FreeBSD is a very good operating system and I intend to continue installing it into new sites. FreeBSD is being improved all the time and the newer versions seem to have better user ppp support and support divert sockets thus allowing masquerading with user ppp and natd. As 2.2.2 supports the above, maybe I should wait for 2.2.6 as maybe most PR's concerning 2.2.5 will be sorted out by then. Regards, Craig Wilson National Software Pty Ltd From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 20:45:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03097 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:45:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from saturn.vision.net.au (saturn.vision.net.au [203.17.23.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03085; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:45:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from craig@natsoft.com.au) Received: from Win95.my.domain (portA39.vision.net.au [203.17.23.157]) by saturn.vision.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25018; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:45:30 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <3479A106.6B6E@natsoft.com.au> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:45:10 +0000 From: Craig Wilson Organization: National Software Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dyson@freebsd.org CC: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stability Of FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD-ROM Release References: <199711240404.XAA01293@dyson.iquest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson wrote: > If you are using FreeBSD in a pseudo-mission critical application, I strongly > suggest applying the vm_page patches that have been included into the > RELENG_2_2 code. Also, there is an odd "delay" problem happening, and > frankly, there is no upper level reason in the VFS or VM code that I can see. John, thank you for your reply. Does 2.2.2 suffer from the vm_page problem, or the delay problem? If not then maybe I should continue to use 2.2.2 until 2.2.6 is released. Could you please tell me what files are required to fix the vm_page problem? Thanking you in advance. Regards, Craig Wilson National Software Pty Ltd ------------------------- From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 21:04:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04001 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03973 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:04:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA19107; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:04:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA22051; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:04:04 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:04:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brian Somers Cc: Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Somers writes: > [.....] > > I argue that we should install the code as things are and, based on > > actual experience, see what changes are needed. Once the scheme is > > stable, the automation can be added as an enhancement. > > I'd tend to agree. If something better comes up, it can be flogged > to death too ;-I As we have already seen, installing code that isn't 'quite finished' is a nightmare waiting to happen, and I will vehemently oppose half-baked solutions. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 23 21:11:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04625 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:11:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from luke.cpl.net (luke.cpl.net [207.67.172.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04616 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:11:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shawn@luke.cpl.net) Received: from localhost (shawn@localhost) by luke.cpl.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00375; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:10:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:10:00 -0800 (PST) From: Shawn Ramsey To: Craig Wilson cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stability Of FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD-ROM Release In-Reply-To: <34799EBD.676C@natsoft.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > for 2.2.6 to be released. I have a FreeBSD subscription. > > > > Well, while I've no doubt that someone on this list could quickly pipe > > up with a fix for kern/4844 and, most likely, any other open PRs you > > might be concerned about, I still have to question any desire to > > upgrade a system which is working just fine the way it is. :-) > > > Jordan, > > Thank you for your response. > > I have no intention of upgrading any existing clients unless they > require something not supported by their version of FreeBSD, this is > why my clients are running versions 2.1.6 to 2.2.2. The clients would > not like the downtime to complete the upgrade anyhow. > I agree if it works don't change it. If you have the HD space to do it, an upgrade will result in no downtime with a make world upgrade. I do agree about not changing things if things work, especially for something such as FreeBSD 1.x as upgrading would be a major pita. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 03:02:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA25029 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 03:02:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from xpert.com (yuri@xpert.com [199.203.132.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA25023; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 03:02:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yuri@xpert.com) Received: from localhost (yuri@localhost) by xpert.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA26235; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:02:12 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:02:12 +0200 (IST) From: Yuri Gindin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: NFS or NIS problem Solaris-2.6 - FreeBSD-stable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I have some problem with NFS and/or NIS, which don't understand really. The setup is as follows: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE is NFS and NIS server. The client is Solaris-2.6. I can login, read write and so on, the home directory was mounted through automount and I also tried to mount it manually without automount. The problem: I can't run top, sysinfo, lsof (programs that access /dev/kmem) It takes to netscape about 5 minutes to startup, but after that I can't close it. Another thing, when the home directory is on solaris everything works fine. Also, when I login as root on solaris and then make su - user and then run top, and other programs, everything works. NetBSD on the same computer instead of solaris works OK. There was no problems when the client was solaris-2.5.1 Any clues ? TIA, --Yuri. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 04:17:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA28656 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 04:17:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from messiah.cableinet.net (messiah.cableinet.net [194.117.157.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA28648 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 04:17:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark.wild@cableinet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 14130 invoked from network); 24 Nov 1997 13:19:41 -0000 Received: from lions.cableinet.net (193.38.113.5) by messiah with SMTP; 24 Nov 1997 13:19:41 -0000 Received: from zebedee.local (usr101-gat.cableinet.co.uk [194.117.153.111]) by lions.cableinet.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951211.SGI) via ESMTP id MAA23996 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:16:25 GMT Received: from dougal (dougal.local [10.0.128.68]) by zebedee.local (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09920 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:31:26 GMT Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:03:05 +0000 From: Mark To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPX router problems Message-ID: <48fb7ee47%mark@dougal.local> In-Reply-To: <3478B5B5.550BFB29@planet.net.au> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <3478B5B5.550BFB29@planet.net.au> you wrote: > Mark, > > Have you setup IPX Network Addresses on each interface? > > If not, this is possibly the problem. I know IPX Routing when setup > on Routers but not FreeBSD! > > Hope this points you in the right direction. > > Regards, > > Merv Young. Thanks for the reply Merv. Yes I have setup network addresses for each interface. I am receiving RIP/SAP packets from the server side ok (ed0) but nothing seems to get through the router. I keep getting bogus packet errors for anything attached to ed1. netstat -r reports: IPX: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire 1.* 1.7b1fffffff U 0 0 ed1 b120.* b120.7b26ffffff U 0 0 ed0 > Mark wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I'm having difficulty setting up an IPX router for Netware using 2.2.5. > > I've compiled the kernel with IPX added, ifconfiged each interface > > a network address, enabled IPX packet forwarding and run IPXrouted. > > > > My setup is: > > > > W95 W95 <-- can't see anything through router > > | | > > ------------------- ed1 FreeBSD machine > > ed0 > > | > > |--Server > > | > > |--Win machines > > > > The problem I've got is that the Win95 machines can't see any Netware > > shares. Any suggestions as to what's wrong? > > > > Thanks for any help, > > > > Mark. > > -- From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 04:49:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA00161 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 04:49:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from homer.duff-beer.com (mail@homer.duff-beer.com [194.207.51.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA00149 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 04:49:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scot@poptart.org) Received: from poptart.org (choccy.poptart.org [194.207.78.222]) by homer.duff-beer.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01826; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:46:11 GMT Message-ID: <347977AE.B0005435@poptart.org> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:48:46 +0000 From: Scot Elliott Organization: Extreme Technologies LTD X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark CC: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPX router problems References: <48fb7ee47%mark@dougal.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > IPX: > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire > 1.* 1.7b1fffffff U 0 0 ed1 > b120.* b120.7b26ffffff U 0 0 ed0 Here's the problem... I had the same thing. Notice that the host part of both the IPX addresses is the same (7b26ffffff) - which isn't possible 'cos it's based on the MAC address of the card. You need to upgrade your kernel... I cvsup'd the sources for stable and it all works fine now. And don't forget that it only works for the Ethernet-II frame type. There was quite a lengthly discussion on ISP a while ago about this - I'd have a look at the mail archives if I were you. Scot. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 05:04:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA00934 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 05:04:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA00926 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 05:04:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA07135; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 07:04:31 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711240303.UAA21771@mt.sri.com> References: <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> <199711202300.JAA00612@word.smith.net.au> <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> <199711232328.AAA17394@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 07:04:49 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 9:03 PM -0600 11/23/97, Nate Williams wrote: >No, the RCS file *will* be corrupted when a branch is built until the >RCS 'template' builder is updated, which will totally hose CVS up when >the underlying RCS file changes *totally* out from under it. I don't understand how you define "corrupted". At no time will the RCS format be violated. >I've explained how it happens both publically and privately, so you're >just acting like a baby by bringing it up over and over again. I have seen your CLAIMS that it happens. However, if your assertions are correct, then it would never be permissible to remove any tag. Since the cvs documentation has a number of references to doing just that, I find it hard to believe that it is not allowed within the cvs structure. I also have not had any difficulty in any of my testing. Will you supply the sequence that "hoses" CVS? I have also seen your assertion that branch tags are added to the src tree more than "once or twice a year". I cannot verify that either. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 05:54:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03590 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 05:54:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03567 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 05:54:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA00306; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:53:03 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199711241353.PAA00306@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "Nov 24, 97 07:04:49 am" To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:53:03 +0200 (SAT) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >No, the RCS file *will* be corrupted when a branch is built until the > >RCS 'template' builder is updated, which will totally hose CVS up when > >the underlying RCS file changes *totally* out from under it. > > I don't understand how you define "corrupted". At no time will the RCS > format be violated. > > >I've explained how it happens both publically and privately, so you're > >just acting like a baby by bringing it up over and over again. > > I have seen your CLAIMS that it happens. However, if your assertions > are correct, then it would never be permissible to remove any tag. Something I have been worrying about. If I get the latest cvs repository in this new scheme and I then do a 'cvs co -D"yesterday" src' do I get the date/number of yesterday or do I still get the one that was generated at the last cvs commit? It would seem wrong to me if I get the latest one if I check out something not current, ie RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE, it should be the "version number" that goes with that date/tag. Just my R0.02. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 06:07:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA04560 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:07:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA04551 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:07:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07562; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:07:12 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711241353.PAA00306@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> References: from Richard Wackerbarth at "Nov 24, 97 07:04:49 am" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:06:33 -0600 To: John Hay From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 7:53 AM -0600 11/24/97, John Hay wrote: >Something I have been worrying about. If I get the latest cvs repository >in this new scheme and I then do a 'cvs co -D"yesterday" src' do I get >the date/number of yesterday or do I still get the one that was generated >at the last cvs commit? It would seem wrong to me if I get the latest one >if I check out something not current, ie RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE, it should >be the "version number" that goes with that date/tag. No. Since we only attempt to give an approximate idea of the date of a checkout from the HEAD, you get nothing. The routines which are processing things are expected to recognize that the file does not exist and use an alternate mechanism. In particular, I feel that we should have the checkout tag determine the identification string. "Releases" are just that and can properly be identified as such. For example: "FreeBSD 2.2.5 (Release)" rather than today's 2.2 head "FreeBSD 2.2.5 (11/24/97)" Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 06:52:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA07064 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:52:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (rhrz-isdn3-p14.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.225.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA07023; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:51:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from uzsv2k@uni-bonn.de) Received: from chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (chokepnt.uni-bonn.de [192.168.0.15]) by chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA00383; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:54:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3479951F.41C67EA6@uni-bonn.de> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:54:23 +0100 From: Philipp Reichmuth X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions CC: FreeBSD-stable Subject: ldconfig problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks! I am experiencing the following problem: Often if I try to compile a port (or whatever that uses shared libraries), I see the following error sequence: XXXXX==== /usr/ports/print/ghostview/ make================================XXXXX >> Checksum OK for ghostview-1.5.tar.gz. ===> Building for ghostview-1.5 rm -f ghostview cc -o ghostview -m486 -O2 -L/usr/X11R6/lib main.o misc.o callbacks.o actions.o dialogs.o Ghostview.o ps.o getenv.o setenv.o strcasecmp.o SelFile.o Dir.o Path.o Draw.o -lXaw -lXmu -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXt -lX11 -lXt -lSM -lICE -lXext -lX11 -lm -lgnumalloc ld: -lgnumalloc: no match *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. YYYYY=====================================================================YYYYY libgnumalloc.so.2.0 is in my ldconfig path, however, because ldconfig -r says: XXXXX==== ldconfig -r | grep "numall"=====================================XXXXX 9:-lgnumalloc.2.0 => /usr/lib/compat/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 YYYYY=====================================================================YYYYY My system is an "out-of-the-box" CTM'ed FreeBSD-2.2.5-stable system. I CTM my ports as well. What is amiss here? Philipp -- > ======================================================================= > formerly - now > ======================================================================= From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 06:52:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA07096 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:52:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (rhrz-isdn3-p14.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.225.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA07063; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:52:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from uzsv2k@uni-bonn.de) Received: from chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (chokepnt.uni-bonn.de [192.168.0.15]) by chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04185; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:31:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3476ECD8.41C67EA6@uni-bonn.de> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:31:52 +0100 From: Philipp Reichmuth X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions CC: FreeBSD-stable Subject: ldconfig problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks! I am experiencing the following problem: Often if I try to compile a port (or whatever that uses shared libraries), I see the following error sequence: XXXXX==== /usr/ports/print/ghostview/ make ================================XXXXX >> Checksum OK for ghostview-1.5.tar.gz. ===> Building for ghostview-1.5 rm -f ghostview cc -o ghostview -m486 -O2 -L/usr/X11R6/lib main.o misc.o callbacks.o actions.o dialogs.o Ghostview.o ps.o getenv.o setenv.o strcasecmp.o SelFile.o Dir.o Path.o Draw.o -lXaw -lXmu -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXt -lX11 -lXt -lSM -lICE -lXext -lX11 -lm -lgnumalloc ld: -lgnumalloc: no match *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. YYYYY=======================================================================YYYYY libgnumalloc.so.2.0 is in my ldconfig path, however, because ldconfig -r says: XXXXX==== ldconfig -r | grep "numall" ======================================XXXXX 9:-lgnumalloc.2.0 => /usr/lib/compat/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 YYYYY=======================================================================YYYYY My system is an "out-of-the-box" CTM'ed FreeBSD-2.2.5-stable system. I CTM my ports as well. What is amiss here? Philipp -- > ======================================================================= > formerly - now > ======================================================================= From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 07:30:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA09903 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 07:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from megaweapon.zigg.com (tcgr-41.dialup.alliance.net [207.74.43.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA09883 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 07:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@zigg.com) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by megaweapon.zigg.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA08881 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:30:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:30:15 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Behrens To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Running out of memory? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Problems with VM are now rearing their ugly head in make world. I presently have 32M real, 32M swap, and make world bombed recently: cc -nostdinc -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/locale -DYP -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/net/res_init.c -o res_init.o cc -nostdinc -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/locale -DYP -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/net/res_mkquery.c -o res_mkquery.o cc -nostdinc -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/locale -DYP -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/net/res_query.c -o res_query.o cc -nostdinc -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/locale -DYP -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/net/res_send.c -o res_send.o cpp: Memory exhausted. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. I shouldn't need all of 64M for this, should I? Matt Behrens | Help bring a free realtime communication http://www.zigg.com/ | system to the Internet. Join the NetPager matt@zigg.com | Project! http://www.zigg.com/netpager/ From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 08:37:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA13639 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:37:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13634 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:37:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA23012; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:37:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA23358; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:37:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:37:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199711241637.JAA23358@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> <199711202300.JAA00612@word.smith.net.au> <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> <199711232328.AAA17394@bitbox.follo.net> <199711240303.UAA21771@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >No, the RCS file *will* be corrupted when a branch is built until the > >RCS 'template' builder is updated, which will totally hose CVS up when > >the underlying RCS file changes *totally* out from under it. > > I don't understand how you define "corrupted". At no time will the RCS > format be violated. > > >I've explained how it happens both publically and privately, so you're > >just acting like a baby by bringing it up over and over again. > > I have seen your CLAIMS that it happens. However, if your assertions > are correct, then it would never be permissible to remove any tag. And in that you are correct. It is never permissible to remove a branch tag from any file in the CVS tree. > Since the cvs documentation has a number of references to doing > just that, I find it hard to believe that it is not allowed within the cvs > structure. You can remove 'point tag', but not branch tags. And, all of the documentation that talks about removing branch tags is in the scope of 'renaming' support, where the file being renamed is essentially a 'new' file, which has never existed in the tree before. So, you can remove branch tags all day long and not affect anyone since that file 'never existed' prior to whenever you actually stick it in the tree. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 08:42:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14270 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:42:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14260 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA23040; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:42:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA23393; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:41:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:41:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199711241641.JAA23393@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: John Hay Cc: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711241353.PAA00306@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> References: <199711241353.PAA00306@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Something I have been worrying about. If I get the latest cvs repository > in this new scheme and I then do a 'cvs co -D"yesterday" src' do I get > the date/number of yesterday or do I still get the one that was generated > at the last cvs commit? You get neither, since CVS is smart enough to know that a version of this file doesn't exist at this/time date on this branch. So, depending on your branch, you'd get *no* special version #, and instead the GENERIC one used for the branch like now. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 09:18:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16251 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:18:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16243 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:17:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xa28h-00070c-00; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:17:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Matt Behrens cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Running out of memory? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Matt Behrens wrote: > Problems with VM are now rearing their ugly head in make world. I > presently have 32M real, 32M swap, and make world bombed recently: You should check your user limits, as you probably are not allowing your user access to all memory. Tom From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 11:22:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26044 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:22:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26032 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:22:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10940; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 19:22:01 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA21949; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:22:00 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:22:00 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Nate Williams CC: brian@awfulhak.org, rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Nate Williams's message of Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:04:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Version Resolution? References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Brian Somers writes: > > [.....] > > > I argue that we should install the code as things are and, based on > > > actual experience, see what changes are needed. Once the scheme is > > > stable, the automation can be added as an enhancement. > > > > I'd tend to agree. If something better comes up, it can be flogged > > to death too ;-I > > As we have already seen, installing code that isn't 'quite finished' is > a nightmare waiting to happen, and I will vehemently oppose half-baked > solutions. I'll oppose anything that break the repositories (ANY case where they break the repositories) or absolutely need manual intervention. I'm willing to accept growth (as long as it is low compared to the growth of the rest of the repository). Was that included in your sentiment? Eivind. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 12:28:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02299 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02286 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:28:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13240; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:20:35 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> References: Nate Williams's message of Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:04:04 -0700 <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:18:46 -0600 To: Eivind Eklund From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: brian@awfulhak.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 1:22 PM -0600 11/24/97, Eivind Eklund wrote: >I'll oppose anything that break the repositories (ANY case where they >break the repositories) > or absolutely need manual intervention. I'm >willing to accept growth (as long as it is low compared to the growth >of the rest of the repository). > >Was that included in your sentiment? It all depends on how you define your terms. By "break the repositories", I will accept only the following 1) Causes CVS to hang/abort, etc. 2) Causes the alteration of a file outside the set affected. 3) Causes the delivery of a file which is not syntactically valid. I will not include x) Produces a valid, but unexpected, result in the content of a file which is part of the mechanism. y) Has the POTENTIAL to allow something (or someone) to break ... I do not accept the requirement to exclude manual intervention. EVERY change to the system requires some manual intervention. Failure to perform all of the steps simply means that the installation is incomplete. As long As for the rate of growth, I feel that we already have a significant problem. I think that we need some alternate storage scheme that allows MOST of the historical information to be taken off-line. Those few individuals who need access to the older stuff should be able to access it on a machine which has the archived information mounted without REQUIRING everyone who wants the active material to also have all of the older material. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 13:51:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08823 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08816 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id QAA02576; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:50:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199711242150.QAA02576@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Running out of memory? In-Reply-To: from Tom at "Nov 24, 97 09:17:38 am" To: tom@uniserve.com (Tom) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:50:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: matt@zigg.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tom said: > > On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Matt Behrens wrote: > > > Problems with VM are now rearing their ugly head in make world. I > > presently have 32M real, 32M swap, and make world bombed recently: > > You should check your user limits, as you probably are not allowing your > user access to all memory. > If you are using X-windows during the build, 32M of swap might start being a little too small. (Swap size == Memory size) is minimum, and I suggest more. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 13:52:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08927 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:52:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08918 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:52:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id QAA02719; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:52:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199711242152.QAA02719@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Running out of memory? In-Reply-To: from Matt Behrens at "Nov 24, 97 10:30:15 am" To: matt@zigg.com (Matt Behrens) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:52:23 -0500 (EST) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Matt Behrens said: > Problems with VM are now rearing their ugly head in make world. I > presently have 32M real, 32M swap, and make world bombed recently: > > I shouldn't need all of 64M for this, should I? > You don't have 64M of virtual space, you have only 32M. The available committed virtual space is the swap size, and doesn't include memory. The system can run in a lame mode, without swap space, but that is not how it is normally used. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 13:55:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09105 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:55:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09099 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:55:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26301; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:55:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199711242155.NAA26301@austin.polstra.com> To: uzsv2k@uni-bonn.de Subject: Re: ldconfig problems In-Reply-To: <3476ECD8.41C67EA6@uni-bonn.de> References: <3476ECD8.41C67EA6@uni-bonn.de> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: stable@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:55:02 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <3476ECD8.41C67EA6@uni-bonn.de>, Philipp Reichmuth wrote: > rm -f ghostview > cc -o ghostview -m486 -O2 -L/usr/X11R6/lib main.o misc.o > callbacks.o actions.o dialogs.o Ghostview.o ps.o > getenv.o setenv.o strcasecmp.o SelFile.o Dir.o Path.o > Draw.o -lXaw -lXmu -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXt -lX11 -lXt -lSM -lICE -lXext > -lX11 -lm -lgnumalloc > ld: -lgnumalloc: no match > *** Error code 1 [...] > libgnumalloc.so.2.0 is in my ldconfig path, however, because ldconfig -r > says: > > XXXXX==== ldconfig -r | grep "numall" > ======================================XXXXX > 9:-lgnumalloc.2.0 => /usr/lib/compat/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 > YYYYY=======================================================================YYYYY The ldconfig database is used only by the dynamic linker "ld.so". The static linker "ld" does not use it at all. If you want "ld" to find libgnumalloc, then you need to either add "-L/usr/lib/compat" to its command line arguments, or create a symbolic link "/usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 -> /usr/lib/compat/libgnumalloc.so.2.0". John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 14:23:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10808 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10793 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:23:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA25124; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:23:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA24374; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:23:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:23:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Eivind Eklund , brian@awfulhak.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth writes: > At 1:22 PM -0600 11/24/97, Eivind Eklund wrote: > >I'll oppose anything that break the repositories (ANY case where they > >break the repositories) > > or absolutely need manual intervention. I'm > >willing to accept growth (as long as it is low compared to the growth > >of the rest of the repository). > > > >Was that included in your sentiment? > > It all depends on how you define your terms. > > By "break the repositories", I will accept only the following > 1) Causes CVS to hang/abort, etc. Not recognizing new branches will cause CVS to abort when the file is modified out from underneath causing that revision/branch to disappear. RCS-HEAD == V1.10 Steps: 1) CVS branch on head occurs, causing the creation of branch V1.10.0.2, and revision V1.10.2.1. [ Remote site operations ] ---- 1) Remote update of CVS bits 2) CVS update -RNEW_BRANCH src RCS-FILE is checked out, V1.10.2.1 ---- 3) Said file is re-created, causing the removal of both the new branch and new revision created in the branch tag, since new branches are not auto-recognizecd. [ Remote site operations ] ---- 1) Remote update of CVS bits 2) CVS update -RNEW_BRANCH src CVS loses it's mind, since neither the branch tag nor any revision even close to V1.10.2.1 exists in the repository. ---- The same behavior could happen on *any* site that uses the new branch *before* the RCS-file generator blows it away, including on freefall. And, since the RCS-file generator must be hand-modified, the chance of someone doing it are somewhere between 0 and nil for people that actually create branches. Requiring someone to understand how RCS files are generated/built just to do branching is an unacceptable burden. If auto-recognition is implemented, the RCS-branch will never get blown away hence no 'branch' will get lost in the file which are ever used. Finally, just because branches haven't been used alot historically doesn't mean they won't be used in the future. In FreeBSD in the last year, I can count a number of branches that were created. RELENG_2_2 SCSI WOLLMAN_MBUF Julian has some as well, but they weren't in the file I looked at. And, I expect branches to start being used more often than in the past due to more commericial interests wanting to share their code with FreeBSD, as well as developers interested in using CVS to 'showcase' their new development, now that distribution is much more effecient with CVSup. In the past, the use of branches was *way* too expensive in terms of resources due to the use of SUP as the main distribution mechanism for many developers/users, but since SUP is no longer supported, the remaining distribution mechanisms allow for the greater use of branches. > As for the rate of growth, I feel that we already have a significant > problem. I think that we need some alternate storage scheme that > allows MOST of the historical information to be taken off-line. CVS doesn't work that way. It's pretty much an all/nothing deal, so you can't have *some* of the data available and not have all of it available. The only thing you *can* do is remove *some* of the very old Attic files in parts of the system which are not used at all, but that is a small percentage of the overall size of the system. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 15:31:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15570 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:31:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [207.170.114.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15562 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:31:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bob@luke.pmr.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22738; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:31:41 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from bob) Message-ID: <19971124173140.04106@pmr.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:31:40 -0600 From: Bob Willcox To: stable list Subject: Re: Partitioning Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Jay Nelson on Fri, Nov 07, 1997 at 09:21:01PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Nov 07, 1997 at 09:21:01PM -0600, Jay Nelson wrote: > On Fri, 7 Nov 1997, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > [snip] > > > What do you mean? ccd is not a filesystem. > > I know. > > What I meant was, it looks to me like, the code for expanding filesystems > > would seem to be a lot like the code for implementing ccd'd partitions; > > you just map various physical places on the disk(s) to the same logical > > partition. > [snip] > > AIX maps 4Mb physical "partitions" to logical partitions. Physical The size of the physical partitions may be greater than 4Mb (the default). You set this at the time the you create the volume group. > partitions scattered all over the disk are mapped to a linear logical > sequence of partitions. So, in a sense, it probably isn't that much > different than ccd. But I'm not that enthusiastic about LVM. It has a rather unpleasent interface, I'm afraid. I like the functionality, however. > > As near as I can tell, AIX implements the basic Berkeley filesystem > and has completed the journaling. When you expand a file system, I > don't believe you gain any more inodes. No, the AIX Journalled filesystem was an original implementation by (primarily) Al Chang of IBM Research. I believe some of the concepts of the BSD filesystem were used (like cylinder groups), though I don't know how similar any of it really is. And yes, when you expand an AIX filesystem you do get more inodes. In the AIX filesystem there is (or used to be, I've been away from it for several years) a direct correspondence between the number of inodes and the number of 4k pages in the filesystem (1:1 as I recall). > > AIX also uses a number of other structures that are unique -- Volume > Descriptor Blocks, for example, which keep track of quorums (for > mirroring and "volume groups") and other data related to the current > state of the file system. All of this "convenience" implies overhead > -- or a massive overhaul of the current file system code. > > You also have to realize that to make this work, you have to leave > portions of the disk(s) unallocated. You could probably simulate this > by allocating calendars 0-99, 200-299, etc., and then relabeling the > disk when you want to expand. Seems like a waste of space to me given > the FFS allocation policies. The LVM handles all of this in AIX. Logical volumes can be expanded to include previous free space within their volume group. A volume group can be expanded by adding more physical volumes to it. > > IMHO, I wouldn't want to invest 1+ man years to implement a > convenience to save a 2 or 3 time a year annoyance. (I'd also hate to > see FreeBSD broken while it's implemented.) 2000+ hours to implement > vs. 2-8 hour backup/rebuild/restore -- plus (gurus correct me if > I'm wrong) it takes 4-8 cycles to dereference a pointer -- so > you're coming close to doubling file acces time. The dog don't hunt. Certainly, adding the LVM layer adds overhead...though I doubt that it actually doubles file access time. (I run a number of AIX systems and and file access times "feel" pretty comparable to those on my FreeBSD systems, for similar disks. CPU cost may well be greater, but I haven't attempted to measure it. Of course, YMMV.) In environments where it is unacceptable to take a system (or file system) down for 2-8 hours while you do the backup/rebuild/restore thing, the ability to resize filesystems on the fly has some real value. This was one of the primary forces driving its implementation. Also, it looks good on marketing charts, especially when your competitors can't do it (as was the case when the JFS was first implemented). Another area where it is used in AIX is during installation. It simplifies life quite a bit when the installation program can simply grow a filesystem as necessary. Bob Willcox, (retired IBMer and AIX architecture manager) -- Bob Willcox Deliberation, n.: The act of examining one's bread bob@luke.pmr.com to determine which side it is buttered on. Austin, TX -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 24 23:56:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22814 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:56:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from baloon.mimi.com (sjx-ca34-22.ix.netcom.com [204.31.236.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22794 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:56:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by baloon.mimi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02086; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:56:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:56:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711250756.XAA02086@baloon.mimi.com> To: jdp@polstra.com CC: uzsv2k@uni-bonn.de, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199711242155.NAA26301@austin.polstra.com> (message from John Polstra on Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:55:02 -0800) Subject: Re: ldconfig problems From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * The ldconfig database is used only by the dynamic linker "ld.so". * The static linker "ld" does not use it at all. If you want "ld" to * find libgnumalloc, then you need to either add "-L/usr/lib/compat" * to its command line arguments, or create a symbolic link * "/usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 -> /usr/lib/compat/libgnumalloc.so.2.0". This answer is correct in the regular sense, but not for this particular case. Your problem is that you have old imake config files (they are in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config). Satoshi From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 06:49:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA16489 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 06:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA16481 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 06:49:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29252; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:49:05 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:49:36 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Eivind Eklund , brian@awfulhak.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 4:23 PM -0600 11/24/97, Nate Williams wrote: >Not recognizing new branches will cause CVS to abort when the file is >modified out from underneath causing that revision/branch to disappear. > >RCS-HEAD == V1.10 > >Steps: >1) CVS branch on head occurs, causing the creation of branch V1.10.0.2, > and revision V1.10.2.1. The V1.10.2.1 never gets created unless some additional actions are taken. But, in any case, it doesn't matter. >[ Remote site operations ] >---- >1) Remote update of CVS bits >2) CVS update -RNEW_BRANCH src > RCS-FILE is checked out, V1.10.2.1 >---- > >3) Said file is re-created, causing the removal of both the new branch > and new revision created in the branch tag, since new branches are > not auto-recognizecd. > >[ Remote site operations ] >---- >1) Remote update of CVS bits >2) CVS update -RNEW_BRANCH src >CVS loses it's mind, since neither the branch tag nor any revision even >close to V1.10.2.1 exists in the repository. >---- It really gets blown away .... shrimp: {161} cvs update NATE cvs update: Updating NATE cvs update: NATE/RCS-FILE is no longer in the repository shrimp: {162} Hardly fatal, IMHO. >Finally, just because branches haven't been used alot historically >doesn't mean they won't be used in the future. In FreeBSD in the last >year, I can count a number of branches that were created. > >RELENG_2_2 >SCSI >WOLLMAN_MBUF And since they only apply to a part of the tree, I don't think that a single timestamp mechanism, even if it were done by the brut force update using CVS, will do a reasonable job of tracking everything. Neither do I consider it appropriate to attempt to track these odd tags. However, these kinds of considerations are EXACTLY why I consider it premature to bother to automate the new branch recognition. If it is decided that we really need to track multiple tags which are not total trees, the whole mechanism may need to be redesigned. If that is the case, the auto-recognition code would never get used. >> As for the rate of growth, I feel that we already have a significant >> problem. I think that we need some alternate storage scheme that >> allows MOST of the historical information to be taken off-line. > >CVS doesn't work that way. It's pretty much an all/nothing deal ... I agree that that is the way the present methodology works. However, I claim that we should look to alternatives. That does not mean that we need to abandon CVS (although even that should not be ruled out offhand without a valid cost/benefit analysis). Perhaps we could simply start a new tree periodically. Those who NEED the old stuff could refer to the archived version (on a CD?). Don't take the above "solution" as one that I am advocating. I am simply suggesting that it is appropriate to DISCUSS alternative methodology. Particularly with the various tree reorganizations, there is IMHO too much useless material that does not need to continue to be propogated everywhere ALL the time. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 07:30:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA19781 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:30:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from castle.amgen.com (firewall-user@ns1.amgen.com [138.133.17.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA19773 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:30:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 5yb787th7@1yrdue.net) From: 5yb787th7@1yrdue.net Received: by castle.amgen.com; id HAA00730; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:20:18 -0800 Received: from usr36-dialup26.mix2.atlanta.mci.net(166.55.59.218) by castle.amgen.com via smap (3.2) id xmaoa6103; Tue, 25 Nov 97 07:19:42 -0800 DATE: 24 Nov 10 10:24:41 AM Message-ID: TO: wemail@4uonthe.net SUBJECT: We will mail 4 U Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk LET US DO YOUR BULK MAILINGS!!! ..$250 PER MILLION THE WAY OF THE FUTURE FOR SUCCESS IN YOUR BUSINESS! Our company will do bulk emailing for your product/service. Addresses are extracted daily by four of our computers, which run 24 hours a day 7 days a week, scanning the net for new addresses. They are fresh! Over 36 million addresses on file. No more than 2 pages (50 lines), no porn and no foul language. We do not do targeted mailings at this price. Targeted mailings $150 per 50,000 addresses extracted. There are no lower prices on the net. Your mailing can be done in a matter of hours. We have 4 computers extracting addresses 24/7. For the fastest service, cheapest prices and cleanest mailings call our processing and new accounts office at 904-282-0945, Monday - Friday 9 - 5 EST. If the line is busy, please keep trying, as bulk mailing is growing fast. We do want to work with you to advertise your product. $250 per million expires December 1, 1997. Price increases to $350 per million, $250 per 500,000. All orders received before December 1 will not reflect the increase. Even with the increase, we will still be the best prices on the net. To have your name removed, call our processing office. Any negative responses will be dealt with accordingly. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 07:31:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA19838 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:31:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA19828 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA01120; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:30:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA27130; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:30:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:30:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199711251530.IAA27130@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Nate Williams , Eivind Eklund , brian@awfulhak.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Not recognizing new branches will cause CVS to abort when the file is > >modified out from underneath causing that revision/branch to disappear. > > > >RCS-HEAD == V1.10 > > > >Steps: > >1) CVS branch on head occurs, causing the creation of branch V1.10.0.2, > > and revision V1.10.2.1. > > The V1.10.2.1 never gets created unless some additional actions are taken. No, it gets created because when a branch for the entire tree is created, then *every* file in the tree gets touched. > >[ Remote site operations ] > >---- > >1) Remote update of CVS bits > >2) CVS update -RNEW_BRANCH src > > RCS-FILE is checked out, V1.10.2.1 > >---- > > > >3) Said file is re-created, causing the removal of both the new branch > > and new revision created in the branch tag, since new branches are > > not auto-recognizecd. > > > >[ Remote site operations ] > >---- > >1) Remote update of CVS bits > >2) CVS update -RNEW_BRANCH src > >CVS loses it's mind, since neither the branch tag nor any revision even > >close to V1.10.2.1 exists in the repository. > >---- > It really gets blown away .... > > shrimp: {161} cvs update NATE > cvs update: Updating NATE > cvs update: NATE/RCS-FILE is no longer in the repository > shrimp: {162} > > Hardly fatal, IMHO. You didn't do it on a BRANCH. Do it on a branch. Also, there is another possibility of something happening that even worse if branches aren't auto recognized. 0) File is modified for new branch 1) CVS tree is gotten by remote user 2) Remote user checks out tree using branch 3) File is blown away by RCS-generator 4) File is re-generated againy by RCS-generator ... 5) New branch is desired to have timestamp, so someone edits the RCS-generator file and since the file is blown away, author doesn't know where the branch *was* originally, so he creates a 'new' branch where the BRANCH tag starts with. 6) Remote user syncs up his tree 7) CVS update -RBRANCH - Again CVS loses it's mind since the branch was originally at V1.10.0.1, and now it's at V1.12.0.4. 8) User/CVS is confused, causing developer headache because of Richard's laziness and whining. > >Finally, just because branches haven't been used alot historically > >doesn't mean they won't be used in the future. In FreeBSD in the last > >year, I can count a number of branches that were created. > > > >RELENG_2_2 > >SCSI > >WOLLMAN_MBUF > > And since they only apply to a part of the tree, I don't think that a > single timestamp mechanism, even if it were done by the brut force > update using CVS, will do a reasonable job of tracking > everything. Neither do I consider it appropriate to attempt to track > these odd tags. RCS file corruption is *exactly* the reason why you should track these odd tags. Whether *you* feel it's appropriate or not is not the issue, the issue is whether or not you're willing to come up with a solution that doesn't break the tree. "But, I only break the tree for tags I don't care about, and since I don't care about them the tree can break, so don't generate tags that I don't care about." IMHO that's total *crap*. > Perhaps we could simply start a new tree periodically. Those who NEED > the old stuff could refer to the archived version (on a CD?). You obviously don't understand the role of CVS/SCM solutions, do you? I often (every 2-3 mos.) go look back through very old versions looking for hints to new fixes. Starting over would be absolutely *silly*, since the disk savings are insignificant compared to the keeping of the history. Heck, if we *could* do it, it would have been nice to have kept the FreeBSD 1.X tree around publically, but that's not possible for legal reasons, but because of it we lost many fixes. Some have subsequently been brought over, but some are probably still in the tree that have been missed unfortunately. :( > Particularly with the various tree reorganizations, there is IMHO too much > useless material that does not need to continue to be propogated everywhere > ALL the time. They are propogated *once*, and never again. Throwing out all the history because there is 5% wastage in the tree is *way* too much overkill, and shows a lack of understanding about software development. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 07:49:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA21528 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (rhrz-isdn3-p3.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.225.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21518 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:49:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from uzsv2k@uni-bonn.de) Received: from chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (chokepnt.uni-bonn.de [192.168.0.15]) by chokepnt.uni-bonn.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00254 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:43:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <347AF21A.41C67EA6@uni-bonn.de> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:43:22 +0100 From: Philipp Reichmuth X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-stable Subject: ldconfig: mail doublet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have to apologize for the second mail, it was due to a sendmail problem on my machine. Philipp -- > ======================================================================= > formerly - now > ======================================================================= From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 08:24:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA23860 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23853 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:24:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00314; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:23:55 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711251530.IAA27130@mt.sri.com> References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:22:14 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 9:30 AM -0600 11/25/97, Nate Williams wrote: >> Perhaps we could simply start a new tree periodically. Those who NEED >> the old stuff could refer to the archived version (on a CD?). > >You obviously don't understand the role of CVS/SCM solutions, do you? I >often (every 2-3 mos.) go look back through very old versions looking >for hints to new fixes. Starting over would be absolutely *silly*, >since the disk savings are insignificant compared to the keeping of the >history. Heck, if we *could* do it, it would have been nice to have >kept the FreeBSD 1.X tree around publically, but that's not possible for >legal reasons, but because of it we lost many fixes. Some have >subsequently been brought over, but some are probably still in the tree >that have been missed unfortunately. :( > >> Particularly with the various tree reorganizations, there is IMHO too much >> useless material that does not need to continue to be propogated everywhere >> ALL the time. > >They are propogated *once*, and never again. Throwing out all the >history because there is 5% wastage in the tree is *way* too much >overkill, and shows a lack of understanding about software development. Perhaps YOU do not understand. I have no doubt that YOU may reference old material with reasonable frequency. But, just because you do so does not mean that the majority do so. It seems that just because a few of you find something useful, you think that EVERYONE should. The truth of the matter is that there are far more users who are interested in only the recent history. They seldom, if ever, look at the details of the old changes. If you offload all the old changes, I think that you will find that it is much more than 5%. Just compare the size of the cvs tree to the current source tree. -rw-r--r-- 1 library library 95358150 Nov 9 09:46 cvs-cur/cvs-cur.3800xEmpty.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 library library 38404928 Oct 20 04:09 src-cur/src-cur.3100xEmpty.gz I don't think that you can explain the difference in just cvs header overhead + 5%. >Heck, if we *could* do it, it would have been nice to have >kept the FreeBSD 1.X tree around publically Keeping it around is not the same as keeping it on everyone's hard disk. I'm not advocating that we permanently lose any detail. I am simply advocating that it is not necessary for EVERYONE to keep it in their active cache. In fact, keeping the old stuff in an unchanging (read-only) archive is much safer than having it all copied every time there is a new change to a file. Take your blinders off. FreeBSD has grown to be more than just the hardcore developers. And there is more than one way to skin the cat. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 08:47:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25647 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:47:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from gate1.gateway.com (gate1.gateway.com [208.215.59.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25642 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 96fQSJ6z7@par1kz.se) From: 96fQSJ6z7@par1kz.se Received: by gate1.gateway.com; id KAA21360; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:26:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from usr2-dialup49.mix2.atlanta.mci.net(166.55.51.113) by lsf005.gateway.com via smap (V3.1) id xmadb9393; Tue, 25 Nov 97 10:26:21 -0600 DATE: 24 Nov 10 11:31:08 AM Message-ID: TO: wemail@4uonthe.net SUBJECT: We will mail 4 U Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk LET US DO YOUR BULK MAILINGS!!! ..$250 PER MILLION THE WAY OF THE FUTURE FOR SUCCESS IN YOUR BUSINESS! Our company will do bulk emailing for your product/service. Addresses are extracted daily by four of our computers, which run 24 hours a day 7 days a week, scanning the net for new addresses. They are fresh! Over 36 million addresses on file. No more than 2 pages (50 lines), no porn and no foul language. We do not do targeted mailings at this price. Targeted mailings $150 per 50,000 addresses extracted. There are no lower prices on the net. Your mailing can be done in a matter of hours. We have 4 computers extracting addresses 24/7. For the fastest service, cheapest prices and cleanest mailings call our processing and new accounts office at 904-282-0945, Monday - Friday 9 - 5 EST. If the line is busy, please keep trying, as bulk mailing is growing fast. We do want to work with you to advertise your product. $250 per million expires December 1, 1997. Price increases to $350 per million, $250 per 500,000. All orders received before December 1 will not reflect the increase. Even with the increase, we will still be the best prices on the net. To have your name removed, call our processing office. Any negative responses will be dealt with accordingly. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 08:49:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25828 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:49:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25823 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:49:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA01638; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:49:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA27402; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:49:06 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:49:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199711251649.JAA27402@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> <199711251530.IAA27130@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >They are propogated *once*, and never again. Throwing out all the > >history because there is 5% wastage in the tree is *way* too much > >overkill, and shows a lack of understanding about software development. > > Perhaps YOU do not understand. I have no doubt that YOU may reference > old material with reasonable frequency. But, just because you do so > does not mean that the majority do so. It seems that just because a > few of you find something useful, you think that EVERYONE should. The CVS repository is for the *DEVELOPERS*. If you're not a developer, then you don't *need* the repository. > The truth of the matter is that there are far more users who are > interested in only the recent history. Then they can use CVSweb or other means to go look at the history. They don't need the CVS repository taking up disk space. However, if the disk space isn't an issue for them, then they can grab the CVS bits if they desire. The CVS bits aren't intended for them to have to give them a warm fuzzy inside. Again, you don't understand what software engineering is about. > I'm not advocating that we permanently lose any detail. I am simply > advocating that it is not necessary for EVERYONE to keep it in their > active cache. If they have no need for it, then don't get the CVS bits. It's as simple as that. This isn't Burger King, you don't get it your way. There simply isn't the resources available for everyone to have it done whichever way they want it. The CVS bits are available to them because it was easy to do so and it wasn't too much of a burden on the developers. But, if you aren't looking at them, there is absolutely *NO* need to get them, since CVSup of the bits is more effecient and uses less space than getting the CVS tree. Go find a real problem to solve and stop making them up to fit your whine of the day. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 09:33:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00665 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00655 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:32:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01105; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:32:43 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711251649.JAA27402@mt.sri.com> References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> <199711251530.IAA27130@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:30:28 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:49 AM -0600 11/25/97, Nate Williams wrote: >The CVS repository is for the *DEVELOPERS*. If you're not a developer, >then you don't *need* the repository. > >> The truth of the matter is that there are far more users who are >> interested in only the recent history. > >Then they can use CVSweb or other means to go look at the history. They >don't need the CVS repository taking up disk space. However, if the >disk space isn't an issue for them, then they can grab the CVS bits if >they desire. The CVS bits aren't intended for them to have to give them >a warm fuzzy inside. > >Again, you don't understand what software engineering is about. I'm glad that YOU are such an expert about MY understanding. I suspect that I was doing software engineering before you were born. Just because someone needs detail in one area does not imply that they need it in all areas. >The CVS bits are available to them because >it was easy to do so and it wasn't too much of a burden on the >developers. But, if you aren't looking at them, there is absolutely *NO* >need to get them, since CVSup of the bits is more effecient and uses >less space than getting the CVS tree. You miss my argument that the present methodology FORCES anyone who has ANY need for current revisions to take ALL of them. Just because a solution was easy does not mean that it was good. It's too bad that you have such a limited view of things that you are unwilling to even discuss changes. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 09:58:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA02742 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:58:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02735 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:58:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA02167; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:58:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA27804; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:58:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:58:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199711251758.KAA27804@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> <199711251530.IAA27130@mt.sri.com> <199711251649.JAA27402@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The CVS bits are available to them because > >it was easy to do so and it wasn't too much of a burden on the > >developers. But, if you aren't looking at them, there is absolutely *NO* > >need to get them, since CVSup of the bits is more effecient and uses > >less space than getting the CVS tree. > > You miss my argument that the present methodology FORCES anyone who has ANY > need for current revisions to take ALL of them. And you miss the argument that anyone who needs to look at recent history can do that now without the CVS tree. Here's a thought, let's shackle all of the developers because Richard can't afford a couple megabytes of disk space, thus ultimately making FreeBSD an inferior product. There's a *really* good idea. Again, the CVS bits are for the *DEVELOPERS*. Perdiod. Not for the users, for the developers. If you can't afford the disk space for the CVS bits, then you have don't have the resources to do development. It's too bad that you don't understand that all you're doing is wasting my time, and unfortunately I'm too stupid to ignore you. I could be actually fixing laptop support bugs, but instead I'm wasting my time arguing with someone w/out a clue. Finally, you're the only one advocating getting rid of the CVS history, and the only one complaining about the space in the CVS tree. I don't hear anyone else complaining. (Ahh, but there too scared to complain, right?) Nate ps. I yes, I understand what 'not much disk space' means. My laptop development box has a 340MB partition for FreeBSD, which *includes* the kernel CVS bits and the entire checked out source tree + obj tree. To say it's tight is an understatement, but to give up CVS history for a little bit of disk space would be simply ludicrous. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 10:28:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05291 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05281 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:28:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01557; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:27:32 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711251758.KAA27804@mt.sri.com> References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> <199711251530.IAA27130@mt.sri.com> <199711251649.JAA27402@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:27:24 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:58 AM -0600 11/25/97, Nate Williams wrote: >> >The CVS bits are available to them because >> >it was easy to do so and it wasn't too much of a burden on the >> >developers. But, if you aren't looking at them, there is absolutely *NO* >> >need to get them, since CVSup of the bits is more effecient and uses >> >less space than getting the CVS tree. >> >> You miss my argument that the present methodology FORCES anyone who has ANY >> need for current revisions to take ALL of them. > >And you miss the argument that anyone who needs to look at recent >history can do that now without the CVS tree. Not if they lack the on-line access to which you refer. >Here's a thought, let's shackle all of the developers because Richard >can't afford a couple megabytes of disk space, Well, since I have about 2GB devoted to just FreeBSD source .... I think that you miss the point. I am looking for things to simplify the HUGE startup and continued processing cost of repeatedly processing the same unchanging data. As it is, I am spending many CPU hours each day just verifying that the bulk of the cvs tree has not changed and localizing the small portion of the files that did change. Further, all the CVSup servers are having to do similar analysis passing over a lot of unchanged data for every client update. If we were not stuck in your methodology, those functions could potentially be made less burdensome. This would permit better response, etc. However, since these inefficiencies are not on your machine and a change might cause you to do things a little differently, it appears that you are unwilling to allow it to be discussed. >It's too bad that you don't understand that all you're doing is wasting >my time, and unfortunately I'm too stupid to ignore you. I could be >actually fixing laptop support bugs, but instead I'm wasting my time >arguing with someone w/out a clue. Perhaps it is you who is without the clue. >Finally, you're the only one advocating getting rid of the CVS history, That is a misrepresentation of my position. I am advocating a repartitioning of the information so that the static portion can be omitted or otherwise processed in a more efficient manner. I am NOT advocating the elimination of the information. >ps. I yes, I understand what 'not much disk space' means. My laptop >development box has a 340MB partition for FreeBSD, which *includes* the >kernel CVS bits and the entire checked out source tree + obj tree. To >say it's tight is an understatement, but to give up CVS history for a >little bit of disk space would be simply ludicrous. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 10:43:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06950 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06943 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:43:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA02444; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:43:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA27978; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:43:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:43:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199711251843.LAA27978@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711240216.CAA28304@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199711240504.WAA22051@mt.sri.com> <199711241922.UAA21949@bitbox.follo.net> <199711242223.PAA24374@mt.sri.com> <199711251530.IAA27130@mt.sri.com> <199711251649.JAA27402@mt.sri.com> <199711251758.KAA27804@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> >The CVS bits are available to them because > >> >it was easy to do so and it wasn't too much of a burden on the > >> >developers. But, if you aren't looking at them, there is absolutely *NO* > >> >need to get them, since CVSup of the bits is more effecient and uses > >> >less space than getting the CVS tree. > >> > >> You miss my argument that the present methodology FORCES anyone who has ANY > >> need for current revisions to take ALL of them. > > > >And you miss the argument that anyone who needs to look at recent > >history can do that now without the CVS tree. > > Not if they lack the on-line access to which you refer. What reference? If you don't have on-line access, you can't be a developer. > I am looking for things to simplify the HUGE startup and continued > processing cost of repeatedly processing the same unchanging data. What processing? > As it is, I am spending many CPU hours each day just verifying that the > bulk of the cvs tree has not changed and localizing the small portion of > the files that did change. If you're using CPU hours/day, then you've proven you've got no clue. I've got a 486/66 at the wrong end of a 28.8K line at home that is the CVSup server for my entire FreeBSD 'stable' of machines at work, as well as my development boxes. It takes literally *10* minutes to update all my machines every day, and most of the bottleneck is that silly 28.8K link sending out the same bits to every machine. Yes, it could be made more effecient by using a local CVSup server on my local LAN, but since FreeBSD is a hobby I didn't feel it was appropriate to stick the CVS bits on the company machine, plus it makes things faster at home. > Further, all the CVSup servers are having > to do similar analysis passing over a lot of unchanged data for every > client update. What analysis? If you mean MD5 cksums on the data, you aren't going to make any significant change by removing 90% of the history. *Maybe* you'll decreate it by a third, but 33% faster of < .1% of the total CPU burned is insignificant. The only load that is significant on these servers it the network bandwidth of sending out data, and that 'data' load isn't going to change unless people stop making changes to FreeBSD, which is apparently your goal. In any case, you've made history by becoming the *first* person to go into my .procmailrc file. No one else has gotten that distinction, since most people have something significant to add to the discussion, but has been obvious over the last years you have no intention on ever doing anything but bitch and moan. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 11:52:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15387 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:52:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15332 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:52:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA11667; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:51:42 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199711251951.VAA11667@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: IPX router problems In-Reply-To: <48fb7ee47%mark@dougal.local> from Mark at "Nov 24, 97 12:03:05 pm" To: mark.wild@cableinet.co.uk (Mark) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:51:42 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Mark, You don't say which version of Netware you are using, but I would guess that it is 3.0 or later. If so they have an internal network number which should also show up in the netstat -r report. Why do you say that you receive RIP/SAP packets? One problem might be because the FreeBSD IPX code only supports Ethernet_II framing, which is not the default for Netware servers. The default for Netware 3.x is 802.3 framing and I think for v4.x it is 802.2SNAP, but I'm not 100% sure. The easiest if you only have W95 machines will be to change the server to use Ethernet_II framing. (The default 95 setup will sense that automatically.) If you have older Win3.X machines and diskless machines it won't be that easy. If you can't do Ethernet_II framing, I do have a patch to enable 802.3 framing on the FreeBSD box. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za > > Yes I have setup network addresses for each interface. I am receiving RIP/SAP > packets from the server side ok (ed0) but nothing seems to get through the > router. I keep getting bogus packet errors for anything attached to ed1. > > netstat -r reports: > > IPX: > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire > 1.* 1.7b1fffffff U 0 0 ed1 > b120.* b120.7b26ffffff U 0 0 ed0 > > > > I'm having difficulty setting up an IPX router for Netware using 2.2.5. > > > I've compiled the kernel with IPX added, ifconfiged each interface > > > a network address, enabled IPX packet forwarding and run IPXrouted. > > > > > > My setup is: > > > > > > W95 W95 <-- can't see anything through router > > > | | > > > ------------------- ed1 FreeBSD machine > > > ed0 > > > | > > > |--Server > > > | > > > |--Win machines > > > > > > The problem I've got is that the Win95 machines can't see any Netware > > > shares. Any suggestions as to what's wrong? From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 12:51:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA26805 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:51:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from bofh.noc.best.net (rone@ennui.org [205.149.163.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA26793 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:51:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rone@bofh.noc.best.net) Received: (from rone@localhost) by bofh.noc.best.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA14012 for stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:50:55 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Echeverri Message-Id: <199711252050.MAA14012@bofh.noc.best.net> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711251843.LAA27978@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 25, 97 11:43:11 am" To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:50:55 -0800 (PST) X-GmbH: Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: In any case, you've made history by becoming the *first* person to go into my .procmailrc file. No one else has gotten that distinction, since most people have something significant to add to the discussion, but has been obvious over the last years you have no intention on ever doing anything but bitch and moan. :( Nate, Richard, could we take this petulant acrimony to Usenet, please? rone -- Ron Echeverri | "Who is the boss of you? Me! I am Systems/Usenet Administration | the boss of you! I am the boss of Best Internet Communications, Inc. | you! I am the boss of you!" | - The Grand Inquisitor From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 12:58:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28028 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:58:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28014; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:57:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA17602; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:57:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:57:48 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: Philipp Reichmuth cc: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD-stable Subject: Re: ldconfig problems In-Reply-To: <3479951F.41C67EA6@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Philipp Reichmuth wrote: > Often if I try to compile a port (or whatever that uses shared > libraries), I see the following error sequence: > > XXXXX==== /usr/ports/print/ghostview/ > make================================XXXXX > >> Checksum OK for ghostview-1.5.tar.gz. > ===> Building for ghostview-1.5 > rm -f ghostview > cc -o ghostview -m486 -O2 -L/usr/X11R6/lib main.o misc.o > callbacks.o actions.o dialogs.o Ghostview.o ps.o > getenv.o setenv.o strcasecmp.o SelFile.o Dir.o Path.o > Draw.o -lXaw -lXmu -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXt -lX11 -lXt -lSM -lICE -lXext > -lX11 -lm -lgnumalloc > ld: -lgnumalloc: no match Yipe, 1.5 is --OLD--! Try upgrading. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 13:47:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03285 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:47:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03264 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:46:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA13992; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:46:29 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams cc: Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:49:06 MST." <199711251649.JAA27402@mt.sri.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:46:29 -0800 Message-ID: <13988.880494389@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Have either of you noticed that the last 6 rounds or so of this have hardly been entirely useful or enlightening? Perhaps it's time to take the debate private until such time as a resolution is reached. And no, I don't feel that rkw needs an audience to get a fair hearing for his proposals here - that's the first and foremost delusion of anyone involved in a fierce debate and it's clearly wrong. People aren't interested in monitoring the process when it's reached this stage of continuing impasse, they just want to see the end results (whatever they might be). Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 13:47:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03382 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:47:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from praline.no.neosoft.com (praline.no.NeoSoft.COM [206.27.160.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA03363 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:47:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from caj@praline.no.neosoft.com) Received: (qmail 25534 invoked by uid 65524); 25 Nov 1997 21:47:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:47:35 -0600 (CST) From: Craig Johnston To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2.5-stable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What's the cvsup tag for 2.2.5-stable? RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE ? thanks, Craig. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 14:26:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09162 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:26:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from didda.est.is (ppp-43.est.is [194.144.208.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09133 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from est.is (didda.est.is [192.168.255.1]) by didda.est.is (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10486; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:25:13 GMT (envelope-from totii@est.is) Message-ID: <347B5048.DCA995A9@est.is> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:25:13 +0000 From: "Þorður Ivarsson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Hay CC: Mark , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IPX router problems References: <199711251951.VAA11667@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Hay wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > You don't say which version of Netware you are using, but I would guess > that it is 3.0 or later. If so they have an internal network number > which should also show up in the netstat -r report. Why do you say > that you receive RIP/SAP packets? > > One problem might be because the FreeBSD IPX code only supports > Ethernet_II framing, which is not the default for Netware servers. > The default for Netware 3.x is 802.3 framing and I think for v4.x > it is 802.2SNAP, but I'm not 100% sure. The easiest if you only Netware 4.x uses ipx802.2 3.11 and previous uses ipx802.3 unless you select ipx802.2 for 3.x server. Ethernet_snap is for localtalk. Most users can easily turn on Ethernet_II framing on Netware server without hassle on workstations. > have W95 machines will be to change the server to use Ethernet_II > framing. (The default 95 setup will sense that automatically.) If > you have older Win3.X machines and diskless machines it won't be > that easy. If you can't do Ethernet_II framing, I do have a patch > to enable 802.3 framing on the FreeBSD box. > > John > -- > John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za > > > > > Yes I have setup network addresses for each interface. I am receiving RIP/SAP > > packets from the server side ok (ed0) but nothing seems to get through the > > router. I keep getting bogus packet errors for anything attached to ed1. > > > > netstat -r reports: > > > > IPX: > > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire > > 1.* 1.7b1fffffff U 0 0 ed1 > > b120.* b120.7b26ffffff U 0 0 ed0 > > > > > > I'm having difficulty setting up an IPX router for Netware using 2.2.5. > > > > I've compiled the kernel with IPX added, ifconfiged each interface > > > > a network address, enabled IPX packet forwarding and run IPXrouted. > > > > > > > > My setup is: > > > > > > > > W95 W95 <-- can't see anything through router > > > > | | > > > > ------------------- ed1 FreeBSD machine > > > > ed0 > > > > | > > > > |--Server > > > > | > > > > |--Win machines > > > > > > > > The problem I've got is that the Win95 machines can't see any Netware > > > > shares. Any suggestions as to what's wrong? -- Þórður Ívarsson Thordur Ivarsson Rafeindavirki Electronic technician Norðurgötu 30 Nordurgotu 30 Box 309 Box 309 602 Akureyri 602 Akureyri Ísland Iceland --------------------------------------------- FreeBSD has good features, Some others are full of unwanted features! --------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 14:36:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10855 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:36:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from soncek.uni-mb.si (soncek.uni-mb.si [164.8.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10840 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:36:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vrtin@uni-mb.si) Received: from unicorn.uni-mb.si by soncek.uni-mb.si with SMTP using DNS (PP) id <28182-0@soncek.uni-mb.si>; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:36:23 +0100 Received: (from david@localhost) by unicorn.uni-mb.si (8.8.7/8.8.8/19970814) id XAA24261; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:36:22 +0100 (CET) From: David Vrtin Message-Id: <199711252236.XAA24261@unicorn.uni-mb.si> Subject: Re: 2.2.5-stable In-Reply-To: from Craig Johnston at "Nov 25, 97 03:47:35 pm" To: caj@praline.no.neosoft.com (Craig Johnston) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:36:22 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: vrtin@uni-mb.si X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Craig Johnston wrote: > What's the cvsup tag for 2.2.5-stable? RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE ? RELENG_2_2 David -- David Vrtin (system manager) # tel: +386 62 220-7129 University of Maribor, Faculty of EE and CS # fax: +386 62 211-178 Smetanova 17, SI-2000 Maribor, Slovenia # www.uni-mb.si/~david/ From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 14:39:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11371 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:39:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11364 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:39:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id PAA16317; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:38:12 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711252238.PAA16317@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:38:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "Nov 25, 97 12:27:24 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [Nate] >>It's too bad that you don't understand that all you're doing is wasting >>my time, and unfortunately I'm too stupid to ignore you. I could be >>actually fixing laptop support bugs, but instead I'm wasting my time >>arguing with someone w/out a clue. > > [Richard] > Perhaps it is you who is without the clue. It'd be good if this discussion could be kept at a civil level. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 14:44:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12123 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:44:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12106 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:44:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id PAA16385; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:42:31 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711252242.PAA16385@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:42:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: chad@dcfinc.com, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711211901.MAA14829@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 21, 97 12:01:21 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hacks and kludges are not acceptable when other solutions > are available/doable that aren't hacks and kludges, and I *KNOW* that > other solutions exist that aren't hacks/kludges. > > Nate Fine. Propose one. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 14:49:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12846 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:49:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from megaweapon.zigg.com (tcgr-171.dialup.alliance.net [207.74.43.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12826 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:49:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@zigg.com) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by megaweapon.zigg.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA15043; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:49:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:49:46 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Behrens To: Craig Johnston cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.5-stable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Craig Johnston wrote: > What's the cvsup tag for 2.2.5-stable? RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE ? I've been continuing to use RELENG_2_2, and I get 2.2.5-STABLE. Matt Behrens | Help bring a free realtime communication http://www.zigg.com/ | system to the Internet. Join the NetPager matt@zigg.com | Project! http://www.zigg.com/netpager/ From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 15:27:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA16250 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:27:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16015; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:26:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07735; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:40:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd007685; Tue Nov 25 09:40:28 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA02240; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:24:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199711252324.QAA02240@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U To: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:24:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, spamcomplaints@MCI.NET In-Reply-To: <199711251853.NAA01005@luomat.peak.org> from "Timothy J Luoma" at Nov 25, 97 01:53:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From searching several phone directories online, it appears that the person > who sent this spam did so on behalf of: > > Jack Luke > 39 Panda Av > Middleburg, FL 32068-4765 > (904) 282-0945 It is pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that this is a targetted trojan of the type that was used to flood ml.org. Also, you will note that the putative "relay host" is running a highly hacked version of sendmail (EHLO it). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 17:09:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25238 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:09:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from joel.hld.c64.org (hld.c64.org [203.19.107.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25231 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:09:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gardners@joel.hld.c64.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by joel.hld.c64.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA03138 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:07:08 GMT Message-Id: <200011261007.KAA03138@joel.hld.c64.org> X-Authentication-Warning: joel.hld.c64.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? CVS, disk space and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:58:22 MST." <199711251758.KAA27804@mt.sri.com> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:07:08 +0000 From: Paul Gardner-Stephen Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [re: should we have the CVS tree with *everything* in it, or a smaller one] Hmmm.. I personally think that 60 or 70MB (i recall thats the difference in size, *at most* between the full CVS, and a truncated one, for the full source tree is a pretty good price for a very useful development tool. If i saw a complete CVS system for sale for $20, i'd probably recommend it, and thats what this equates to (60mb hdd = $20 ;) Just my A$0.02 worth. Paul. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 17:28:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27054 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:28:27 -0800 (PST) From: owner-freebsd-stable Message-Id: <199711260128.RAA27054@hub.freebsd.org> To: undisclosed-recipients:; From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 17:29:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27175 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:29:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25617; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:14:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711260114.RAA25617@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: We will mail 4 U To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:14:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, spamcomplaints@MCI.NET In-Reply-To: <199711252324.QAA02240@usr05.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 25, 97 11:24:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > From searching several phone directories online, it appears that the person > > who sent this spam did so on behalf of: > > > > Jack Luke > > 39 Panda Av > > Middleburg, FL 32068-4765 > > (904) 282-0945 > > It is pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that this is a targetted trojan of > the type that was used to flood ml.org. > > Also, you will note that the putative "relay host" is running a highly > hacked version of sendmail (EHLO it). > "hacked version of sendmail" ????? EHLO is standard esmtp. this is old stuff already. see the rfc's (rfc1825 perhaps) two relay hosts were the ns servers for amgen.com. why are nameservers configured to relay mail? jmb From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 25 22:34:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23290 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:34:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from Bayou.UH.EDU (jef53313@Bayou.UH.EDU [129.7.1.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23284 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:34:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jef53313@Bayou.UH.EDU) Received: from localhost (jef53313@localhost) by Bayou.UH.EDU (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA18932 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:34:23 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:34:23 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Fosburgh To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: How much space? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would like to upgrade my 225R machine to -stable, but I am low on disk space? Can someone tell me what the minimum sets I should get are and how much space they require? I have around 30-40 megs of hard drive left. Jonathan Fosburgh, wotan@scientist.com , University of Houston Geophysics http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498 FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations http://www.freebsd.org ******************************************************************************* We shall not cease from exploration, And the end of our exploring shall be to arrive Where we started from, and know the place for the first time. --T.S. Eliot, The Four Quartets ******************************************************************************* From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 02:34:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06897 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:34:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06889 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:34:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA20398; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 04:33:47 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200011261007.KAA03138@joel.hld.c64.org> References: Your message of "Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:58:22 MST." <199711251758.KAA27804@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 04:27:34 -0600 To: Paul Gardner-Stephen From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? CVS, disk space and stuff Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >[re: should we have the CVS tree with *everything* in it, or a smaller one] > >Hmmm.. I personally think that 60 or 70MB (i recall thats the difference >in size, >*at most* between the full CVS, and a truncated one, for the full source >tree is a >pretty good price for a very useful development tool. Although I believe that your estimate is off by quite a bit, the storage space, per se, is only a part of the concern. If you will observe the content of a standard cvs file, you will see that a large portion of that file is old static history. Processing this information every time the cvs file is accessed is a cost that everyone (except the "current" users) bears. In many cases, to get to the head of the 2.2 branch, cvs must unroll the last year's changes and then re-apply them to generate a file that is the same as, or very similar to, the "current" head. There are also large pieces of "dead" code which are there only because an entire module was moved to a new location. So every time someone uses CVS or CVSup they pay a processing charge. Multiple times each day, my CTM generator spends hours comparing these static portions in its generation of the latest CTM deltas. >If i saw a complete CVS system for sale for $20, i'd probably recommend >it, and thats >what this equates to (60mb hdd = $20 ;) Close ... The 2.2.5 CD set is 29.95 and also includes a bunch of other useful info. My suggestion is not to get rid of the information in the cvs tree, but to reorganize it into a format which would allow (1) the optional omission of obsolete parts and (2) the recognition of invariant parts so that they could be ignored in processing. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 06:13:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19336 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from messiah.cableinet.net (messiah.cableinet.net [194.117.157.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA19327 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark.wild@cableinet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 5766 invoked from network); 26 Nov 1997 15:16:58 -0000 Received: from lions.cableinet.net (193.38.113.5) by messiah with SMTP; 26 Nov 1997 15:16:58 -0000 Received: from zebedee.local (usr20-gat.cableinet.co.uk [194.117.153.30]) by lions.cableinet.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951211.SGI) via ESMTP id OAA15353 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:12:50 GMT Received: from dougal (dougal.local [10.0.128.68]) by zebedee.local (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02145 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:27:20 GMT Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:59:07 +0000 From: Mark To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPX router problems Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199711251951.VAA11667@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199711251951.VAA11667@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> you wrote: > Hi Mark, > > You don't say which version of Netware you are using, but I would guess > that it is 3.0 or later. If so they have an internal network number > which should also show up in the netstat -r report. Why do you say > that you receive RIP/SAP packets? > > One problem might be because the FreeBSD IPX code only supports > Ethernet_II framing, which is not the default for Netware servers. > The default for Netware 3.x is 802.3 framing and I think for v4.x > it is 802.2SNAP, but I'm not 100% sure. The easiest if you only > have W95 machines will be to change the server to use Ethernet_II > framing. (The default 95 setup will sense that automatically.) If > you have older Win3.X machines and diskless machines it won't be > that easy. If you can't do Ethernet_II framing, I do have a patch > to enable 802.3 framing on the FreeBSD box. > > John I was incorrectly told that Ethernet II was being used, but infact it's 802.3 (Netware 3.12). I also have the requirement of forwarding IP packets across the two interfaces and I gather from your previous postings on this subject that it's not currently possible to have two frame types on the same interface. Is this still the case? Unfortunately there's no chance of moving to Eth. II. Many thanks, Mark. From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 11:03:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA09982 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:03:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09970 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:03:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA13202; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:00:30 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199711261900.VAA13202@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: IPX router problems In-Reply-To: from Mark at "Nov 26, 97 01:59:07 pm" To: mark.wild@cableinet.co.uk (Mark) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:00:30 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark, > > One problem might be because the FreeBSD IPX code only supports > > Ethernet_II framing, which is not the default for Netware servers. > > The default for Netware 3.x is 802.3 framing and I think for v4.x > > it is 802.2SNAP, but I'm not 100% sure. The easiest if you only > > have W95 machines will be to change the server to use Ethernet_II > > framing. (The default 95 setup will sense that automatically.) If > > you have older Win3.X machines and diskless machines it won't be > > that easy. If you can't do Ethernet_II framing, I do have a patch > > to enable 802.3 framing on the FreeBSD box. > > I was incorrectly told that Ethernet II was being used, but infact it's > 802.3 (Netware 3.12). I also have the requirement of forwarding IP > packets across the two interfaces and I gather from your previous > postings on this subject that it's not currently possible to have > two frame types on the same interface. Is this still the case? > Unfortunately there's no chance of moving to Eth. II. FreeBSD currently can't do more than one IPX frame type on an interface. You can use this patch to be able to do 802.3 on FreeBSD. It provides a sysctl to switch between Ethernet_II (default) and 802.3. Remember that it will switch it for IPX on all the interfaces. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za --- if_ethersubr.c.v2.2.org Wed Jul 2 07:56:33 1997 +++ if_ethersubr.c Sun Jul 27 10:18:58 1997 @@ -101,6 +101,11 @@ extern u_char aarp_org_code[ 3 ]; #endif NETATALK +SYSCTL_NODE(_net_link_ether, PF_IPX, ipx, CTLFLAG_RW, 0, ""); +static int ipx8023; /* Should we do Ethernet_II framing for IPX? */ +SYSCTL_INT(_net_link_ether_ipx, OID_AUTO, framing8023, CTLFLAG_RW, + &ipx8023, 0, ""); + u_char etherbroadcastaddr[6] = { 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff }; #define senderr(e) { error = (e); goto bad;} @@ -177,7 +182,10 @@ { struct ifaddr *ia; - type = htons(ETHERTYPE_IPX); + if (ipx8023) + type = htons(m->m_pkthdr.len); + else + type = htons(ETHERTYPE_IPX); bcopy((caddr_t)&(((struct sockaddr_ipx *)dst)->sipx_addr.x_host), (caddr_t)edst, sizeof (edst)); for (ia = ifp->if_addrlist; ia != NULL; ia = ia->ifa_next) @@ -467,8 +475,13 @@ #endif #ifdef IPX case ETHERTYPE_IPX: - schednetisr(NETISR_IPX); - inq = &ipxintrq; + if (ipx8023 == 0) { + schednetisr(NETISR_IPX); + inq = &ipxintrq; + } else { + m_freem(m); + return; + } break; #endif #ifdef NS @@ -489,6 +502,18 @@ return; #endif NETATALK default: +#ifdef IPX + { + struct ipx *ipxp = mtod(m, struct ipx *); + + if (ipx8023 && (ipxp->ipx_sum == 0xffff) && + (ntohs(ipxp->ipx_len) <= m->m_pkthdr.len)) { + schednetisr(NETISR_IPX); + inq = &ipxintrq; + break; + } + } +#endif #ifdef NS checksum = mtod(m, ushort *); /* Novell 802.3 */ From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 15:05:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27308 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:05:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from messiah.cableinet.net (messiah.cableinet.net [194.117.157.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27303 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:05:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark.wild@cableinet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 23038 invoked from network); 27 Nov 1997 00:08:21 -0000 Received: from lions.cableinet.net (193.38.113.5) by messiah with SMTP; 27 Nov 1997 00:08:21 -0000 Received: from zebedee.local (usr95-gat.cableinet.co.uk [194.117.153.105]) by lions.cableinet.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951211.SGI) via ESMTP id WAA01687 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:20:44 GMT Received: from dougal (dougal.local [10.0.128.68]) by zebedee.local (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA15961 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:36:30 GMT Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:08:14 +0000 From: Mark To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPX router problems Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199711261900.VAA13202@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199711261900.VAA13202@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> you wrote: > Mark, > > > > One problem might be because the FreeBSD IPX code only supports > > > Ethernet_II framing, which is not the default for Netware servers. > > > The default for Netware 3.x is 802.3 framing and I think for v4.x > > > it is 802.2SNAP, but I'm not 100% sure. The easiest if you only > > > have W95 machines will be to change the server to use Ethernet_II > > > framing. (The default 95 setup will sense that automatically.) If > > > you have older Win3.X machines and diskless machines it won't be > > > that easy. If you can't do Ethernet_II framing, I do have a patch > > > to enable 802.3 framing on the FreeBSD box. > > > > I was incorrectly told that Ethernet II was being used, but infact it's > > 802.3 (Netware 3.12). I also have the requirement of forwarding IP > > packets across the two interfaces and I gather from your previous > > postings on this subject that it's not currently possible to have > > two frame types on the same interface. Is this still the case? > > Unfortunately there's no chance of moving to Eth. II. > > FreeBSD currently can't do more than one IPX frame type on an interface. > You can use this patch to be able to do 802.3 on FreeBSD. It provides > a sysctl to switch between Ethernet_II (default) and 802.3. Remember > that it will switch it for IPX on all the interfaces. > > John Many thanks for that John, hopefully that will solve my problem. I was also hoping to get ipx going over ppp for dial in access. Does pppd or user ppp support ipx at all? and if so what do I need to do to get it going? The dial-in machine is also W95. (I have got dial in working already but only for tcp/ip) Thanks, Mark. -- From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 15:18:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA28507 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from falcon.sourcee.com (falcon.sourcee.com [205.181.248.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28498 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:18:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrice@falcon.sourcee.com) Received: (from nrice@localhost) by falcon.sourcee.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) id SAA04422 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:18:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:18:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Norman C. Rice" Message-Id: <199711262318.SAA04422@falcon.sourcee.com> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 16:30:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA03742 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:30:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from gwis.com (droberts@darcy.gwis.com [209.57.72.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA03732 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:30:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from droberts@gwis.com) Received: from localhost (droberts@localhost) by gwis.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA02629 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:30:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:30:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Roberts To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: XFree86 as an afterthought Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been running 2.2.5 from a fresh install for a few weeks and decided I wanted to add the XFree86 distribution. Using sysinstall, I selected all of the components I wanted, then initiated the install. FreeBSD proceeded to install compat21, then dumped me back to the menu.. subsequent attempts result in the same. Anyone know what's wrong? -- Dan Roberts, http://gwis.com/~droberts Gateway to Internet Services sysadmin/ircadmin, barovia.oh.us.dal.net for Internet access in NE Ohio http://barovia.dal.net - Strahd on DALnet http://www.gwis.com From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 18:43:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25202 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:43:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from room101.sysc.com (qmailr@richmojm2.student.rose-hulman.edu [137.112.206.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25196 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:43:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jayrich@room101.sysc.com) Received: (qmail 6684 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Nov 1997 02:42:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:42:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Jay M. Richmond" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: IDE Bus Mastering... when in stable? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, After searching through mailing list archives, it appears that there is support for DMA bus mastering for IDE controllers in -current. Are there any plans to move this to -stable at some point? I would sure be interested in this kindof support for 2.2.5, as I'm sure others are. Please let me know if there's anything I can do in the mean time. I understand that having this support helps performance a great deal. Thanks, Jay From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 18:47:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25649 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:47:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25635 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:47:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id TAA04719 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:47:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:47:11 -0700 (MST) From: Doug Russell Reply-To: Doug Russell To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Make world fails..... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is on -STABLE as of last night. I even tried rm'ing bind and dig and doing another cvsup to no avail, so it's now -STABLE as of 20 minutes ago. Am I missing something here??? ===> usr.bin/dig cc -O -I/hobbes.usr/src.2.2-STABLE/src/usr.bin/dig/../../contrib/bind -I/hobbes.usr/src.2.2-STABLE/src/usr.bin/dig/../../contrib/bind/include -DUSE_OPTIONS_H -o dig dig.o list.o subr.o debug.o send.o subr.o: Undefined symbol `___sym_ntos' referenced from text segment subr.o: Undefined symbol `___p_class_syms' referenced from text segment subr.o: Undefined symbol `___sym_ston' referenced from text segment subr.o: Undefined symbol `___p_type_syms' referenced from text segment subr.o: Undefined symbol `___sym_ston' referenced from text segment subr.o: Undefined symbol `___p_type_syms' referenced from text segment subr.o: Undefined symbol `___sym_ntop' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. Later...... From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 26 19:25:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00541 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:25:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from megaweapon.zigg.com (tcgr-148.dialup.alliance.net [207.74.43.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00526 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:24:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@megaweapon.zigg.com) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by megaweapon.zigg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18214 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:25:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matt@megaweapon.zigg.com) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:25:04 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Behrens To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Rebuilding kernel without reconfigging? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is it safe to just go into the compile directory and do make install again instead of re-doing config and etc. after cvsupping the sources? Matt Behrens | Help bring a free realtime communication http://www.zigg.com/ | system to the Internet. Join the NetPager matt@zigg.com | Project! http://www.zigg.com/netpager/ From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 27 00:34:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09226 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:34:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09221 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:34:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA03036; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:34:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:34:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Dan Roberts cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: XFree86 as an afterthought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Dan Roberts wrote: > I've been running 2.2.5 from a fresh install for a few weeks and decided > I wanted to add the XFree86 distribution. Using sysinstall, I selected > all of the components I wanted, then initiated the install. FreeBSD > proceeded to install compat21, then dumped me back to the menu.. > subsequent attempts result in the same. Anyone know what's wrong? Here's a thought; what FTP server are you using? I had this problem back when I installed 2.2.2; I used the newer boot.flp with XFree86 3.3.1, so I installed the dists from ftp.freebsd.org, but I had to drag X down from releng_22, or something to that effect. Try different mirrors (ftp, ftp2, releng_22 are good choices to try. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 28 01:50:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA04544 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 01:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA04533 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 01:50:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@Haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA01841 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:50:33 +0200 (EET) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:50:32 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Stable broken? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I cvsupped yesterday and built world. The result - an unresolved reference in libtermcap.so.2.1, and no proof there aren't any others. Is it a known bug or did something just go wrong? Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 28 02:26:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06166 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 02:26:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06143 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 02:25:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from max@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (max@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23178; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:19:32 +0600 (NS) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:19:32 +0600 (NS) From: Max Khon To: Narvi cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stable broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Narvi wrote: > > I cvsupped yesterday and built world. The result - an unresolved reference > in libtermcap.so.2.1, and no proof there aren't any others. Is it a known > bug or did something just go wrong? i cvsupped 27 Nov 1997 06:00 and successfully built world /max From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 28 04:50:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA11166 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:50:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA11154 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:50:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@Haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA05392; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:46:48 +0200 (EET) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:46:47 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi Reply-To: Narvi To: Max Khon cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stable broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Max Khon wrote: > > > On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Narvi wrote: > > > > I cvsupped yesterday and built world. The result - an unresolved reference > > in libtermcap.so.2.1, and no proof there aren't any others. Is it a known > > bug or did something just go wrong? > > i cvsupped 27 Nov 1997 06:00 and successfully built world > > /max > Yes, both buildworld and installworld worked flawlessly. The problem was that after that, I could not start pine. It did not start up with ld.so complaining about a missing symbol in libtermlib.so.2.1 I fortunately had a way around this and ftp-d a copy from another machine. Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 28 06:06:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA14371 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 06:06:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from room101.sysc.com (qmailr@richmojm2.student.rose-hulman.edu [137.112.206.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA14363 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 06:06:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jayrich@room101.sysc.com) Received: (qmail 9722 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Nov 1997 14:06:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:06:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Jay M. Richmond" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: ide bus mastering Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Is there anyone on -stable who would be willing to move the ide bus mastering drivers in -current to the 2.2.5 tree? Since my original post, I've talked with several people in -current who have been running the drivers for quite some time now, on a variety of different intel chipsets. No one has had a single problem, and they help reduce cpu load. Could this work in any way as a lkm? Thanks for your time, Jay jayrich@sysc.com From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 28 09:37:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA26765 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:37:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA26757 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:37:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xbULB-0007Us-00; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:36:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:36:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Narvi cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stable broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Narvi wrote: > Hi! > > I cvsupped yesterday and built world. The result - an unresolved reference > in libtermcap.so.2.1, and no proof there aren't any others. Is it a known > bug or did something just go wrong? Sounds like you didn't reboot, or running ldconfig. Tom From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 28 15:24:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA16741 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 15:24:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16736 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 15:24:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA08114; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:23:09 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:23:09 -0700 (MST) From: Doug Russell To: "Jay M. Richmond" cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ide bus mastering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Jay M. Richmond wrote: > Hello, > > Is there anyone on -stable who would be willing to move the ide bus > mastering drivers in -current to the 2.2.5 tree? It isn't that hard to patch -stable to include the driver before you make a new kernel. The location of the patch files is in the archive. Send me a private message if you can't find it. It's quite simple. On the other hand, I don't know of any cases where the DMA driver messed up either, so perhaps we could all get together and make a decision as to whether it is "good" enough to go into -stable yet. Later...... From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 28 15:26:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA16837 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 15:26:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16832 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 15:26:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA08124 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:26:46 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:26:46 -0700 (MST) From: Doug Russell To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stable broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > i cvsupped 27 Nov 1997 06:00 and successfully built world > > /max Argh... I still can't get mine to build. I'm going to do delete my /usr/src and re CVSup.... Maybe THAT will work. sheesh. :) Later...... From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 28 17:38:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA23736 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:38:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from blackhole.dimensional.com (0@blackhole.dimensional.com [208.206.176.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA23728 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:38:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mfuhr@dimensional.com) Received: from flatland.dimensional.com (sendmail@flatland.dimensional.com [208.206.176.24]) by blackhole.dimensional.com (8.8.7/8.8.nospam) with ESMTP id SAA00238; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:37:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mfuhr@localhost) by flatland.dimensional.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA28956; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:37:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19971128183747.62101@dimensional.com> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:37:47 -0700 From: Michael Fuhr To: Tom Cc: Narvi , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stable broken? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Fri, Nov 28, 1997 at 09:36:31AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 28, Tom wrote: > > I cvsupped yesterday and built world. The result - an unresolved reference > > in libtermcap.so.2.1, and no proof there aren't any others. Is it a known > > bug or did something just go wrong? > > Sounds like you didn't reboot, or running ldconfig. Is this the error people are seeing? /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "_issetugid" called from bash:/usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.1 at 0x2006b10c issetugid() is called from tgetent() in libtermcap; everything I have that calls tgetent() and is dynamically linked against libc.so.2.2 gives the above error. This is primarily software I've built myself and installed in /usr/local/bin, e.g., bash, emacs, and tcsh. Is there a way to solve this problem without rebuilding everything? I build most things myself from the original source code -- do the ports have the same problem? -- Michael Fuhr http://www.dimensional.com/~mfuhr/ From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 29 04:40:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA00398 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 04:40:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA00386 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 04:40:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24039; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:25:40 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199711291225.MAA24039@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mark cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPX router problems In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:08:14 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:25:40 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199711261900.VAA13202@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> you wrote: > > > Mark, > > > > > > One problem might be because the FreeBSD IPX code only supports > > > > Ethernet_II framing, which is not the default for Netware servers. > > > > The default for Netware 3.x is 802.3 framing and I think for v4.x > > > > it is 802.2SNAP, but I'm not 100% sure. The easiest if you only > > > > have W95 machines will be to change the server to use Ethernet_II > > > > framing. (The default 95 setup will sense that automatically.) If > > > > you have older Win3.X machines and diskless machines it won't be > > > > that easy. If you can't do Ethernet_II framing, I do have a patch > > > > to enable 802.3 framing on the FreeBSD box. > > > > > > I was incorrectly told that Ethernet II was being used, but infact it's > > > 802.3 (Netware 3.12). I also have the requirement of forwarding IP > > > packets across the two interfaces and I gather from your previous > > > postings on this subject that it's not currently possible to have > > > two frame types on the same interface. Is this still the case? > > > Unfortunately there's no chance of moving to Eth. II. > > > > FreeBSD currently can't do more than one IPX frame type on an interface. > > You can use this patch to be able to do 802.3 on FreeBSD. It provides > > a sysctl to switch between Ethernet_II (default) and 802.3. Remember > > that it will switch it for IPX on all the interfaces. > > > > John > > Many thanks for that John, hopefully that will solve my problem. I was > also hoping to get ipx going over ppp for dial in access. Does pppd or > user ppp support ipx at all? and if so what do I need to do to get it > going? The dial-in machine is also W95. (I have got dial in working already > but only for tcp/ip) I plan to support IPX at some stage (in ppp), but I can't say when. The tun driver needs a bit of work before it can transport non-ip traffic, and I suspect things like divert sockets etc will have to change too. AFAIK, we basically need to prefix the traffic travelling through these ``raw'' mechanisms with at least the sa_family of the message so that the user-program has a chance of knowing what it's reading. > Thanks, > > Mark. > -- > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 29 10:14:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11972 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11961 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:14:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02748; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:14:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199711291814.KAA02748@austin.polstra.com> To: matt@megaweapon.zigg.com Subject: Re: Rebuilding kernel without reconfigging? In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: stable@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:14:12 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , Matt Behrens wrote: > Is it safe to just go into the compile directory and do make install again > instead of re-doing config and etc. after cvsupping the sources? In general, no. There are often changes which require running config again. Sometimes (more rarely) you even have to build and install the new version of config first. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 29 10:16:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12077 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12071 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:16:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02777; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199711291816.KAA02777@austin.polstra.com> To: mfuhr@dimensional.com Subject: Re: Stable broken? In-Reply-To: <19971128183747.62101@dimensional.com> References: <19971128183747.62101@dimensional.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: stable@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:16:35 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <19971128183747.62101@dimensional.com>, Michael Fuhr wrote: > Is this the error people are seeing? > > /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "_issetugid" called from > bash:/usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.1 at 0x2006b10c Yes, that's the one. Peter Wemm has just committed a fix for it. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 29 17:50:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05469 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:50:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from bullfrog.winternet.com (jstepka@bullfrog.winternet.com [204.246.64.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05399 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:50:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jstepka@bullfrog.winternet.com) Received: from localhost (jstepka@localhost) by bullfrog.winternet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00672 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 19:49:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 19:49:04 -0600 (CST) From: Justen Stepka To: FreeBSD-stable@freebsd.org Subject: CPU Load Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Recently I added memory to my NFS server (dx4-100 now w/ 32 megs of RAM), when I did this the overall system preformance increased dramiticly. The problem that I noticed was that when using NFS/NIS the CPU load climbs to about 4.0+, is there a special reason that this might be happening? Thanks in advance, Justen Stepka