From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 00:23:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06837 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:23:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA06814 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:23:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 6654 invoked by uid 27268); 26 Apr 1998 07:24:16 -0000 Date: 26 Apr 1998 07:24:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19980426072416.6653.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> From: Jason Nordwick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: KTEH action X-Mailer: VM 6.32 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The public tv station KTEH is having a TV action to raise money for the station and I noticed that about 15% of the donations are computer related with about 30% of those being developer related (they have had some symantec stuff, borland stuff, MS dev stuff) and about another 30% being Web releated (HTML and Java Applet builder stuff). They say that they are still looking for items, so I was wondering if it would be a good idea to give them a couple of "The Complete FreeBSD" books with CDs. If anybody thinks that this would be a good idea, I would be willing to help pay for some of them (after all it is public tv and a close to free software, kinda). jay -- Join the FreeBSD Revolution. Support the FSF, buy GNU. http://xcf.berkeley.edu/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 06:38:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00218 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:32:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boober.lineone.net (boober-be.lineone.net [194.75.152.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29380 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurab@lineone.net) Received: from speedy (host5-171-246-95.btinternet.com [195.171.246.95]) by boober.lineone.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA29559 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:23:41 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <007201bd7116$bb8c5f80$5ff6abc3@speedy> Reply-To: "Christopher Raven" From: "Christopher Raven" To: Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:25:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi again, just following up on the mouse mat theme, and I noticed the following picture: - http://www.de.freebsd.org/de/gif/bsd/daemon1b.jpg and when I added some text it looked pretty good (my opinion). I am trying to contact the picture's producers Marshall Kirk McKusick, Tatsumi Hosokawa and InfoMagic (if anyone knows their mails or can forward to them - please assist here). Well anyway to get back to the plot, I think it looks like a really nice mouse mat, and perhaps if produced with one of those 'hard top' easy clean surfaces (know the kind?) could be run off to advertise, inform and raise some cash for the coffers of FreeBSD.org (or just be run to a balanced account?). The example I made up is at: - http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~gurab/FreeBSD/index.htm (N.B. I haven't received any permissions to use this image yet) Anyway please let me know what you all think as I am still willing to pursue this. rgds Chris R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 07:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03311 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (andromeda.ndirect.co.uk [194.74.254.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03247 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:15:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danny@alphazed.com) Received: from milliard.alphazed.com (th-pm01-10.ndirect.co.uk [195.7.225.74]) by andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA03940 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:15:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 13282 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 1998 14:13:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alphazed.com) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 26 Apr 1998 14:13:42 -0000 Message-ID: <35434115.190F7EE1@alphazed.com> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:13:41 +0100 From: daniel lawrence Organization: AlphaZed Digital Documents X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christopher Raven , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: References: <007201bd7116$bb8c5f80$5ff6abc3@speedy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christopher Raven wrote: > > Hi again, > > just following up on the mouse mat theme, and I noticed the following > picture: - > > http://www.de.freebsd.org/de/gif/bsd/daemon1b.jpg > > and when I added some text it looked pretty good (my opinion). I am > trying to contact the picture's producers Marshall Kirk McKusick, > Tatsumi Hosokawa and InfoMagic (if anyone knows their mails or can > forward to them - please assist here). > > Well anyway to get back to the plot, I think it looks like a really > nice mouse mat, and perhaps if produced with one of those 'hard top' > easy clean surfaces (know the kind?) could be run off to advertise, > inform and raise some cash for the coffers of FreeBSD.org (or just be > run to a balanced account?). I hate to be picky, but the hard top easy clean surfaces are usually too slippery. I prefer the cloth top, for what it's worth. > The example I made up is at: - > > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~gurab/FreeBSD/index.htm > > (N.B. I haven't received any permissions to use this image yet) > > Anyway please let me know what you all think as I am still willing to > pursue this. > > rgds Chris R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 07:47:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04916 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boober.lineone.net (boober-be.lineone.net [194.75.152.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04096 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurab@lineone.net) Received: from speedy (host5-99-59-31.btinternet.com [195.99.59.31]) by boober.lineone.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id PAA02778; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:23:40 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <002601bd711f$21860cc0$0400a8c0@speedy> Reply-To: "Christopher Raven" From: "Christopher Raven" To: "daniel lawrence" Cc: Subject: Re: mouse mat Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:25:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Christopher Raven wrote: >> >> just following up on the mouse mat theme, and I noticed the following >> picture: - >> >> http://www.de.freebsd.org/de/gif/bsd/daemon1b.jpg >> >> Well anyway to get back to the plot, I think it looks like a really >> nice mouse mat, and perhaps if produced with one of those 'hard top' >> easy clean surfaces (know the kind?) could be run off to advertise, Daniel Lawrence wrote :- >I hate to be picky, but the hard top easy clean surfaces are usually too >slippery. I prefer the cloth top, for what it's worth. ok no problems, we are still in the early stage here ..... anybody else have a preference? Maybe both types can be run off ? Chris R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 08:04:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07747 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07453 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:59:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id KAA01152; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:59:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Christopher Raven cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <007201bd7116$bb8c5f80$5ff6abc3@speedy> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Christopher Raven wrote: > Hi again, > > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~gurab/FreeBSD/index.htm Looks good, But I think your right im not sure that image would look good on cloth the hard mousepad might be better. It might look ok on cloth though. I have a trackball so either one works for me :) A mousepad would be most cool though. Chris -- "I don't do favors, I accumulate debts" ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 08:08:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08329 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd.scds.com (jseger.shore.net [204.167.102.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08008 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:04:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jseger@freebsd.scds.com) Received: (from jseger@localhost) by freebsd.scds.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA27699; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804261516.LAA27699@freebsd.scds.com> From: "Justin M. Seger" To: gurab@lineone.net CC: danny@alphazed.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <002601bd711f$21860cc0$0400a8c0@speedy> (gurab@lineone.net) Subject: Re: mouse mat References: <002601bd711f$21860cc0$0400a8c0@speedy> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I hate to be picky, but the hard top easy clean surfaces are usually too >slippery. I prefer the cloth top, for what it's worth. ok no problems, we are still in the early stage here ..... anybody else have a preference? Maybe both types can be run off ? Cloth definately. The hard tops are probably cheaper, however cloth are much nicer. TTYL, -Justin Seger- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 08:10:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08348 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:08:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from garius.magnet.at (garius.magnet.at [195.170.70.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08016 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:04:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k.joch@magnet.at) Received: from ws01 (LRP02PORT09.highway.telekom.at [195.3.79.73]) by garius.magnet.at (8.8.8/8.8.8/magnet) with SMTP id RAA05858 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:04:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: "K.Joch (CTS)" To: Subject: Re: salesman is thinking..... Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:04:13 +0100 Message-ID: <01bd712c$f51d74d0$494f03c3@ws01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG after finishing a new installation i thought again about the advantages: a easy setup server for small commercial companies must be a winner because of the following advantages: - fully firewall and nat support - full mail server included - possibility to connect from windows and nt workstations (samba) - web server with modules for perl and php (witch i think is a easy thing for the normal people) - sql databases available with interface to perl, php aso. - more stuff available for advanced user. count this in $$$$ (most importand thing when thinking comercial ...:-) ) against other products. 1 freebsd server can handle all the daily work of a small company (i replaced 3 NT server by 1 freebsd now) without having to spend a lot of $$$$. donīt forget the possibility of remote administration - witch gives a lot of guys a good job in servicing small business owner. if there would be software available for: - text, spreadsheet aso - a business package for invoicing , accounting aso also the workstation with X would have a lot of advantages. my time is really limited and i am not a programmer , but i am thinking about to do something here in austria with/for freebsd.......... karl m. joch k.joch@kmjeuro.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 09:00:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13541 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:58:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13466 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:57:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-66.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.66]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA24374; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:57:26 GMT Message-ID: <35433BCE.6C32CAAE@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:51:10 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Nordwick CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: KTEH action References: <19980426072416.6653.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Jason - I think that would be a _great_ idea, especially if somebody like you who's at Berkeley would help them get it up and running. If there's anywhere in the world that we want to have FreeBSD, it's Berkeley. On another subject, since you have a UCBerkeley .sig, are you connected with the Berkeley CS department? I'm gathering support for a public event we'd like to hold at Berkeley which would showcase FreeBSD, the BSD history and free software in general. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 09:12:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15090 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hobbes.crc.com (hobbes.crc.com [192.251.235.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA14388 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:05:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpb@mail.hqs.crc.com) Received: from mail.hqs.crc.com(really [192.146.211.204]) by hobbes.crc.com via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:04:52 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #4 built 1997-Mar-21) Received: from localhost (dpb@localhost) by mail.hqs.crc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA04088; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:05:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dpb@mail.hqs.crc.com) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:05:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Benjamin To: Christopher Raven cc: daniel lawrence , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mouse mat In-Reply-To: <002601bd711f$21860cc0$0400a8c0@speedy> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I vote for non-glossy, to slippery. On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Christopher Raven wrote: > > > >Christopher Raven wrote: > >> > > > > >> just following up on the mouse mat theme, and I noticed the > following > >> picture: - > >> > >> http://www.de.freebsd.org/de/gif/bsd/daemon1b.jpg > >> > > > > > >> Well anyway to get back to the plot, I think it looks like a really > >> nice mouse mat, and perhaps if produced with one of those 'hard > top' > >> easy clean surfaces (know the kind?) could be run off to advertise, > > > > Daniel Lawrence wrote :- > > >I hate to be picky, but the hard top easy clean surfaces are usually > too > >slippery. I prefer the cloth top, for what it's worth. > > > ok no problems, we are still in the early stage here ..... anybody > else have a preference? Maybe both types can be run off ? > > > Chris R. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 11:22:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28710 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28561 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:18:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA10539; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:18:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:18:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Christopher Raven cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <007201bd7116$bb8c5f80$5ff6abc3@speedy> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Chris, On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Christopher Raven wrote: > and when I added some text it looked pretty good (my opinion). Hehe - I just did the same thing - I was playing around w/ that image and modifying it a bit for my xdm login window. I didn't add as much text as you did (not for my login window!), but I think it looks pretty nice. The Gimp is always a big help! You can check my version out at: http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/images/daemon.jpg The shadow is offset to the wrong direction unfortunately. I can fix that though. :-) ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 12:16:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04472 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:04:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00750 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:33:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-34.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.34]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA85346; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:33:22 GMT Message-ID: <35437D6A.F89803EC@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:31:06 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Mayo CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in Academia document References: <19980416234453.42186@vmunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If you have some time, I'd appreciate some feedback regarding: > http://www.vmunix.com/advocacy/academia.html I would reverse the order of things. Give the evidence (history, power, other installations) first, with links, then your techniques, then finally a really short summary paragraph with a lot of punch. Your tips are good except that you don't want to post a public document that will sound like it takes devious means to get the job done or that makes profs sound like they are twirps. Remember, profs have search engines too. Take the high road! We have the best operating system for programming, server administration and raw power. Finally, you need to think about the evidence against FreeBSD and post counterarguments. 1) The commercial world is completely SYSV / ATT style. 2) Linux is more popular and also free 3) Windows is more popular and schools get free help from M$. They have a strong incentive to teach job skills rather than power programming, especially at the community/undergrad level. We have the power and flexibility to do real work and the others don't. That's the argument you must make. You still need to do a spell check, 'arsenal' pops out to me. Your grammar must be spotless to have the desired effect. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 12:40:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08385 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08087 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:35:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (Chuckie@pm04-20.aei.ca [206.123.6.195]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02899; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35438C77.A2FCECEA@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:35:19 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Taylor CC: Christopher Raven , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett Taylor wrote: > Hi Chris, > > On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Christopher Raven wrote: > > > and when I added some text it looked pretty good (my opinion). > > Hehe - I just did the same thing - I was playing around w/ that image and > modifying it a bit for my xdm login window. > > I didn't add as much text as you did (not for my login window!), but I > think it looks pretty nice. The Gimp is always a big help! > > You can check my version out at: > > http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/images/daemon.jpg > > The shadow is offset to the wrong direction unfortunately. I can fix that > though. :-) > > ********************************************************* > Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu > http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ > Well, that's pretty good! The only thing I dont love is the Powered by FreeBSD: its not clear. I love the mountain and the magical (maybe like a Shaman) look! I was thinking if we could find some university student in publicity/advertising who could help us to do a real campaign. FreeBSD have great potential! Use it. Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 16:42:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06382 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boober.lineone.net (boober-be.lineone.net [194.75.152.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03319 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:01:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurab@lineone.net) Received: from speedy (host5-99-58-38.btinternet.com [195.99.58.38]) by boober.lineone.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id AAA24269; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:00:26 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001601bd7167$4b90e880$263a63c3@speedy> Reply-To: "Christopher Raven" From: "Christopher Raven" To: Cc: Subject: Re: mouse mat Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:00:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Cool! How about one where the daemon's pulling a big webserver computer: >"FreeBSD -- the Power to Serve!" > Sounds good - don't suppose we have a ready made one? I was thinking of trying the local art colleges to see if anyone can come up with something ........ but ideas as to what we're after would be good to let them know the kind of thing we're after? I also have checked our position with Kirk McKusick the BSD daemon's creator, and we are ok to use it so thats one less concern. All we need now is some graphics to use and a decision on the mats texture. At the moment I guess its leaning towards the fabric top. Chris R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 16:43:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06394 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04449 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:15:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11533 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:14:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:14:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor Reply-To: Brett Taylor To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: screeshots part deux Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Last week or so people were all up in arms about getting some screenshots on www.freebsd.org so I said "send me your screenshots." Two people did - I know some of you posted URL's to yours but I accidentally deleted a bunch of mail so I missed them. Feel free to send them to me if you want. In any case, I've taken the screenshots I've received and the ones I've made and made a little web page. Feel free to come browse it and check them out. Being that we've had a number of people on -questions lately ask "what does FBSD look like?" maybe it is a good idea to have some on the web page. I know I've overwhelmed W95 users when I had Enlightenment on my machine (I couldn't stand it - too foofy - but it is good at wowing people). The URL is: http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/screenshots.html For those of you who want to make a screenshot to send me, use xv (xgrab won't work on displays w/ greater than 8bpp and xwd didn't seem to work right for me either). Start xv, open up the command window and right above "Quit" is "Grab". I found xv didn't like having "hide xv windows" picked so I put the xv windows on another desktop, used autograb w/ a 10 second delay and switched to the desktop I wanted. To get the entire desktop make sure the mouse cursor is OUTSIDE of any windows and on the desktop. ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 18:36:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18763 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:34:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18168 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:26:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3h-4.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.101]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00062; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:23:49 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980426182408.0069ceec@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:24:08 -0700 To: dwilde1@ibm.net, Jason Nordwick From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: KTEH action Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35433BCE.6C32CAAE@ibm.net> References: <19980426072416.6653.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I love Don's idea about a FreeBSD thing at Berkely. The history of Unix is just as important has Unix itself I believe. Perhaps we can call this movement, "The Berkeley Revolution". Sounds kinda neat huh? Or, just the "Berkeley Movement". And of course we use FreeBSD as our main Berkeley Operating System. Although, those of use not running an Intel machine would probably want to run OpenBSD or NetBSD. Personally, I don't know a damn thing about either of them, although I've hear that OpenBSD is more 'security' oriented. Anyways.... All hail the "Berkeley Revolution"!! :) And use FreeBSD while yer at it!! hehe Joey Garcia At 06:51 AM 4/26/98 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: >Hello, Jason - >I think that would be a _great_ idea, especially if somebody like you >who's at Berkeley would help them get it up and running. If there's >anywhere in the world that we want to have FreeBSD, it's Berkeley. > >On another subject, since you have a UCBerkeley .sig, are you connected >with the Berkeley CS department? I'm gathering support for a public >event we'd like to hold at Berkeley which would showcase FreeBSD, the >BSD history and free software in general. > >--> Don > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 20:26:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28728 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28636 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:22:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (Chuckie@aeiusrF-19.aei.ca [206.186.205.19]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19547; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3543F989.F32F9324@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:20:41 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Taylor CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: screeshots part deux References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett Taylor wrote: > Last week or so people were all up in arms about getting some screenshots > on www.freebsd.org so I said "send me your screenshots." Two people did - > I know some of you posted URL's to yours but I accidentally deleted a > bunch of mail so I missed them. Feel free to send them to me if you want. > > In any case, I've taken the screenshots I've received and the ones I've > made and made a little web page. Feel free to come browse it and check > them out. > > Being that we've had a number of people on -questions lately ask "what > does FBSD look like?" maybe it is a good idea to have some on the web > page. I know I've overwhelmed W95 users when I had Enlightenment on my > machine (I couldn't stand it - too foofy - but it is good at wowing > people). > > The URL is: > > http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/screenshots.html > > For those of you who want to make a screenshot to send me, use xv (xgrab > won't work on displays w/ greater than 8bpp and xwd didn't seem to work > right for me either). Start xv, open up the command window and right > above "Quit" is "Grab". I found xv didn't like having "hide xv windows" > picked so I put the xv windows on another desktop, used autograb w/ a 10 > second delay and switched to the desktop I wanted. To get the entire > desktop make sure the mouse cursor is OUTSIDE of any windows and on the > desktop. > > ********************************************************* > Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu > http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ > Well, I have made my own screen shot of FreeBSD without Xfree86! A lot of newbie dont understand than basicaly, FreeBSD come *without* a Win manager. http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/#2.1 I can erase the commentary and send you the HTML tag, because its a "false screen shot" If you also want, I can put the HTML tag in .gif or .jpg and make it more big. cya Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 26 22:30:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17509 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17475 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:30:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-41.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.41]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA51692 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 05:29:59 GMT Message-ID: <354415D7.E4203555@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:21:27 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [SPECweb] secret architectural discussion - shhh! References: <19949.893621805@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm making this response public because I want my change in direction to be clear to all of you. While Jordan and David have not said we cannot win such a challenge as SPECweb with the proper equipment and preparation, they are counselling a more patient approach that does not require megabuck hardware and a dice roll, which is what a media whoopee like I suggested would be. As somebody else has suggested here ( -chat ) in the last hour, look at what Billy Boy's flop has cost him this last month. We can't afford a public embarrassment like that. Although it would've been a blast to set such a rocketfest up, the gamble is a very large one and failure would burn too many bridges. Jordan has suggested articles for the popular press as a Really Good Thing, and I agree. I have a good one in the back of my mind and I have done professional writing in a previous incarnation, so this is what I will concentrate on as my primary focus. I also have the capability to generate four-color artwork which is acceptable to commercial printers for those of you who are working on mousemats and stickers. Make a TIFF file and send it to me and I can professionalize it for you to take to a specialty house. We have such here in LA if somebody wants to pay for it, and there are several commercial houses out in the sticks which will be cheaper and which will ship to us if we get a decent order together. Thirdly, I'd still like to get together and meet the FreeBSD team members and the BAFUG, so I'd like to suggest a Gathering up in your neck of the woods that weekend (6/27-28) where you all will share your experiences of USENIX and its first FreeNix track. I'll buy pizza for everybody, although those of you who attend virtually will have to have virtual pepperoni! Again, thanks for all the help and commentary, and I'm sorry if I am now dashing hopes. Grand Dreaming is fun, but hard work is more profitable. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 27 09:50:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20318 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20301 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18173; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:49:34 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19980427184934.A18015@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:49:34 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <19980425185920.A8244@shale.csir.co.za> <23154.893524255@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <23154.893524255@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 10:10:55AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 10:10:55AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > [Redirected to -advocacy only; -chat and -advocacy both is overkill] I'm never quite sure of the correct procedure for moving a thread... to cc it first, or just to move it... > The problem with this, and it's already been offered, is that they're > already in the process of setting all these things up themselves (some > number of insanely configured Sparc/SMP boxes are being put together > now to serve all of this stuff over at Mozilla.org) and there is > actually great concern that we'll race off and set up a parallel > infrastructure in our impatience and really confuse things - I already > offered to donate machine resources and network connectivity to the > cause of setting up a set of mozilla mirrors, as you mention, and got > "no, no, wait, we're *almost ready!*" as my answer. They're happy to > have our help, but they're also in the process of releasing their own > CVS repository and they'd much rather than bento mirror it than keep a > parallel copy. Oh well, provided the hand of friendship has been extended. S'pose if you have the money to blow... Offer to swap our infrastructure for their Sparc boxes ;) -Jeremy -- | "In this world of temptation, I will stand for what is right. --+-- With a heart of salvation, I will hold up the light. | If I live or if I die, if I laugh or if I cry, | in this world of temptation, I will stand." -Pam Thum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 27 14:07:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07356 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:07:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (root@jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06923 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id OAA22588; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:06:02 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id OAA02318; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Don Wilde cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Popular Press and Newsletter Was: [SPECweb] secret In-Reply-To: <354415D7.E4203555@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: >Jordan has suggested articles for the popular press as a Really Good >Thing, and I agree. I have a good one in the back of my mind and I have >done professional writing in a previous incarnation, so this is what I >will concentrate on as my primary focus. That darn Jordan. His Coreness is always trying to be sensible and pragmatic. No wonder FreeBSD is so good. I think this approach is a good one. The essence of BSDism is not glitz, IMHO. Hey! Consider this. There is a certain _newsletter_ that really needs some more production. That mechanism is already in place. Let's officially place the newsletter under the jurisdiction of -advocacy. It could be a precursor to a very useful "Linux Journal" type document. Thank you, | Try some of this. It will show you where you're at. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 27 18:47:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05157 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05119 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:47:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrE-43.aei.ca [206.186.204.243]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04436; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3545351F.CA9153C7@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:47:11 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garance A Drosihn CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding FreeBSD to OS wars (for a cause...) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Garance A Drosihn wrote: > There is a web page up at > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/5601/ > > which is running a "OS Wars" vote. The idea is to generate some money for > the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation. You "vote" for your favorite OS by > pledging some money. The current list of OS's include MacOS, OS/2, > Windows, Linux, BeOS, JavaOS, and even AmigaOS (each represented by their > own icon, with a URL pointer to the "home" for that operating system.). > There's one additional catagory for "UNIX"... > > I thought "Well, if Linux is there then I'd be happy to donate a few > "votes" to see FreeBSD in the list too". And thus, my question. > > Is there someone who needs to approve putting up the FreeBSD icon on a web > page such as this one? I thought I remembered a web page which showed > various FreeBSD icons fit for web pages, but in a quick look thru > www.freebsd.org I couldn't find it. And then I got to thinking, maybe I'm > supposed to get advance approval for something like this anwyay. > > So, I'm not requesting that anyone here donate money, but if I'm willing to > donate some money then what icon would be the best one to use for that > page, assuming no one objects to it's usage? > > --- > Garance Alistair Drosehn > Senior Systems Programmer > Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute http://www.ca.freebsd.org/gallery.html Choice the more little... Notice how the Mac comunity is strong: 95 votes... I reply on advocacy@freebsd.org where it should be in discution. Not on question@freebsd.org... Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 27 19:05:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09435 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:05:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eug4ja.lane.edu (eug4ja.lane.edu [158.165.5.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09254 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:04:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from CUPPLES_S@4j.lane.edu) Received: from 4j.lane.edu by 4j.lane.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #27890) id <01IWDHWFEKVK8WYU4D@4j.lane.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:04:03 PST Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:04:03 -0800 (PST) From: cupples_s@4j.lane.edu Subject: FreeBSD guyes To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In one of those late night disgusions with a couple of FreeBSD friends I had a revolation. I was thinking that there should be little FreeBSD demons molded out of some cheep plastic. Take and put them in Mickey D's or Burger King's happy meal. just a thought... Shawn Cupples South Eugene High School (541) 687-3122 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 27 20:36:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26518 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26512 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id XAA25835; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:36:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: cupples_s@4j.lane.edu cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 cupples_s@4j.lane.edu wrote: > In one of those late night disgusions with a couple of FreeBSD friends > I had a revolation. > > I was thinking that there should be little FreeBSD demons molded out of > some cheep plastic. Take and put them in Mickey D's or Burger King's > happy meal. heh It sounds like a good idea, but I envision the only thing happening is the christian coalition picketing Mc'Ds and BK :) -- "I don't do favors, I accumulate debts" ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 27 21:26:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06372 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:26:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.147.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06333 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA20771; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:51:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:51:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Howard To: cupples_s@4j.lane.edu cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 cupples_s@4j.lane.edu wrote: > In one of those late night disgusions with a couple of FreeBSD friends > I had a revolation. > > I was thinking that there should be little FreeBSD demons molded out of > some cheep plastic. Take and put them in Mickey D's or Burger King's > happy meal. > > just a thought... That's a freaking brilliant idea! I'd actually go eat a Happy Meal to get one! I love this! DO IT! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 27 21:36:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08379 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:36:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08365 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:36:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-42.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.139]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00678; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:34:24 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:33:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: cupples_s@4j.lane.edu cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hehehe, that would be a neat idea that we'll probably never see. Although, you really want little kids to be playing with litte devil toys? Aww hell, who am I to talk....I named my child Daemon, after the little BSD mascot. heh. Yep, he was born last friday. 10 pounds, 1 ounce, and 22 inches long. Heheh, he's a Bear of a kid, just like me. *grin* I'm awaiting the mouse pads and sticker ideas though. Anyone think they can get that off the ground? My granny knows embroidery, and she said that she can embroider the whole "Powered by FreeBSD" logo onto a shirt. Don't get your hopes up....Granny isn't into mass production. Although, I"ll be sporting a kewl shirt. =D I'm looking into seeing where I can get some cheap t-shirts in order to print out some t-shirt transfers to make FreeBSD t-shirts. This will probably get off the ground once I figure out how to organize a Los Angeles based BSD users crew. Anyways, happy BSD'ing everyone!!! Bear ============================================================ Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "If you're still in control, you're not going fast enough" ============================================================ On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 cupples_s@4j.lane.edu wrote: > In one of those late night disgusions with a couple of FreeBSD friends > I had a revolation. > > I was thinking that there should be little FreeBSD demons molded out of > some cheep plastic. Take and put them in Mickey D's or Burger King's > happy meal. > > just a thought... > > > Shawn Cupples > South Eugene High School > (541) 687-3122 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 27 23:20:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29654 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eug4ja.lane.edu (eug4ja.lane.edu [158.165.5.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29649 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from CUPPLES_S@4j.lane.edu) Received: from 4j.lane.edu by 4j.lane.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #27890) id <01IWDQVEELTC8WYSUU@4j.lane.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:20:31 PST Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:20:31 -0800 (PST) From: cupples_s@4j.lane.edu Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes In-reply-to: To: Open Systems Networking Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You know if we really wanted we could pass them out in front of schools right next to the people with the bibles... Shawn Cupples South Eugene High School (541) 687-3122 On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 cupples_s@4j.lane.edu wrote: > > > In one of those late night disgusions with a couple of FreeBSD friends > > I had a revolation. > > > > I was thinking that there should be little FreeBSD demons molded out of > > some cheep plastic. Take and put them in Mickey D's or Burger King's > > happy meal. > > heh It sounds like a good idea, but I envision the only thing happening is > the christian coalition picketing Mc'Ds and BK :) > > > -- > "I don't do favors, I accumulate debts" > > ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. > FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 > -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 > FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net > http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security > ===================================| http://open-systems.net > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: 2.6.2 > > mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te > gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC > foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z > d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb > NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv > CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 > b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= > =BBjp > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 01:37:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25264 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:37:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124b.rh.psu.edu (MPH124B.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25254 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) From: gsutter@pobox.com Received: from localhost (gsutter@localhost) by mph124b.rh.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA01007 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 04:37:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 04:37:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: gsutter@mph124b.rh.psu.edu To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Uptime Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems to me that a good advertising point for FreeBSD would be uptime. For example, I had a 16MB 486 up for 71 days before a power outage killed it. I have also seen posts with huge uptimes (600+ days) that would be great advertising. For posters, etc: huge text in background, "465 Days", smaller bolder text in fore with "FreeBSD uptime" and a catchy slogan, e.g. "What's a crash?" For animated/movie art (or a t-shirt): Something like "Joe's FreeBSD system has been running since..." and then various phrases or ideas like... "Before that other operating system was written." or "Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas" and an appropriate picture or whatever else you can think of. Of course, to do things like this, we need documentable uptimes. Who's got the longest uptime? If you've got a really good one (couple hundred days minimum is ideal), post the output of "date && uptime". Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 02:17:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01774 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:17:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01747 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id FAA60078; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:16:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3545351F.CA9153C7@aei.ca> References: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:20:15 -0400 To: Malartre From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Adding FreeBSD to OS wars (for a cause...) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:47 PM -0400 4/27/98, Malartre wrote: > Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > > There is a web page up at > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/5601/ > > > > which is running a "OS Wars" vote. [...] > > Is there someone who needs to approve putting up the FreeBSD icon on > > a web page such as this one? I thought I remembered a web page which > > showed various FreeBSD icons fit for web pages, but [...] > > http://www.ca.freebsd.org/gallery.html > Choice the more little... Well, it seems I tried every link on www.freebsd.org except that one... Thanks! > Notice how the Mac comunity is strong: 95 votes... > I reply on advocacy@freebsd.org where it should be in discution. Not > on question@freebsd.org... Well, I went with "question@freebsd.org" because that's what's on all the web pages, and because the advocacy mailing list is not yet listed on the web page at: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html (the URL that all majordomo confirmation-messages refer to). It makes sense to have it in advocacy, so I quit questions and joined advocacy. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 02:19:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02220 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from garius.magnet.at (garius.magnet.at [195.170.70.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02214 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k.joch@cts.co.at) Received: from ws01 (LRP02PORT03.highway.telekom.at [195.3.79.67]) by garius.magnet.at (8.8.8/8.8.8/magnet) with SMTP id LAA06437 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:17:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: "K.Joch (CTS)" To: Subject: Re: salesman is thinking..... Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:17:18 +0100 Message-ID: <01bd70fc$7ea58c50$464f03c3@ws01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG after finishing a new installation i thought again about the advantages: a easy setup server for small commercial companies must be a winner because of the following advantages: - fully firewall and nat support - full mail server included - possibility to connect from windows and nt workstations (samba) - web server with modules for perl and php (witch i think is a easy thing for the normal people) - sql databases available with interface to perl, php aso. - more stuff available for advanced user. count this in $$$$ (most importand thing when thinking comercial ...:-) ) against other products. 1 freebsd server can handle all the daily work of a small company (i replaced 3 NT server by 1 freebsd now) without having to spend a lot of $$$$. donīt forget the possibility of remote administration - witch gives a lot of guys a good job in servicing small business owner. if there would be software available for: - text, spreadsheet aso - a business package for invoicing , accounting aso also the workstation with X would have a lot of advantages. my time is really limited and i am not a programmer , but i am thinking about to do something here in austria with/for freebsd.......... karl m. joch k.joch@kmjeuro.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 02:19:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02311 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:19:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from garius.magnet.at (garius.magnet.at [195.170.70.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02268 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:19:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k.joch@cts.co.at) Received: from ws01 (LRP03PORT12.highway.telekom.at [195.3.79.108]) by garius.magnet.at (8.8.8/8.8.8/magnet) with SMTP id VAA09123 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:42:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: "K.Joch (CTS)" To: Subject: Re: salesman is thinking..... Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:42:24 +0100 Message-ID: <01bd708a$a78019f0$464f03c3@ws01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG after finishing a new installation i thought again about the advantages: a easy setup server for small commercial companies must be a winner because of the following advantages: - fully firewall and nat support - full mail server included - possibility to connect from windows and nt workstations (samba) - web server with modules for perl and php (witch i think is a easy thing for the normal people) - sql databases available with interface to perl, php aso. - more stuff available for advanced user. count this in $$$$ (most importand thing when thinking comercial ...:-) ) against other products. 1 freebsd server can handle all the daily work of a small company (i replaced 3 NT server by 1 freebsd now) without having to spend a lot of $$$$. donīt forget the possibility of remote administration - witch gives a lot of guys a good job in servicing small business owner. if there would be software available for: - text, spreadsheet aso - a business package for invoicing , accounting aso also the workstation with X would have a lot of advantages. my time is really limited and i am not a programmer , but i am thinking about to do something here in austria with/for freebsd.......... karl m. joch k.joch@kmjeuro.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 03:09:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11212 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:09:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from colossus.dyn.ml.org (dburr@206-18-112-222.la.inreach.net [206.18.112.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11202 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:09:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr@colossus.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from dburr@localhost) by colossus.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) id DAA12134; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:06:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Computer Help From: Donald Burr To: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, cupples_s@4j.lane.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- My secret spy satellite informs me that on 28-Apr-98, Joey Garcia wrote: > I'm looking into seeing where I can get some cheap t-shirts in order to > print out some t-shirt transfers to make FreeBSD t-shirts. This will > probably get off the ground once I figure out how to organize a Los > Angeles based BSD users crew. Linux Journal has some great pages on setting up user groups, somewhere on their web site (http://www.linuxjournal.com/). Just run "sed s/linux/freebsd/g" and they might prove a useful source of ihnformation to you in your quest. - --- Donald Burr - Ask me for my PGP key | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ #1347455 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNUWqEvjpixuAwagxAQFPUgP+KogGLbbj7mmcf3aiSfkO5PZ2tYryJ8S+ +ah9zSVCSgf+611O6iGAfFmPx6zI4M018EKGpL/H22b83ATHCvYM7yjfrDepEE1d 0BX4CdLQ09yn8txdrUG1xS2jeHlrTAeCxIqLdB06xpijV6Cc9+XLhaH+7zPkruFJ 2NIq42ZBF44= =TOLD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 05:10:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04827 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:10:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA04692 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:09:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from (uk.radan.com) [158.152.75.22] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yU9C6-0003Zs-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:09:07 +0100 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA04866; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:08:25 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12055; Tue, 28 Apr 98 13:08:24 BST Message-Id: <3545C6A1.AEC7F623@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:08:01 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: gsutter@pobox.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Uptime References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG gsutter@pobox.com wrote: > > It seems to me that a good advertising point for FreeBSD would be > uptime. For example, I had a 16MB 486 up for 71 days before a power > outage killed it. I have also seen posts with huge uptimes (600+ days) > that would be great advertising. > > For posters, etc: huge text in background, "465 Days", smaller bolder > text in fore with "FreeBSD uptime" and a catchy slogan, e.g. "What's a > crash?" Or, to paraphrase Henry Ford, "FreeBSD, any screen colour you want....except blue!" [snip] > Greg > -- > Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" > mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." > http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 05:59:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13880 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:59:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hobbes.crc.com (hobbes.crc.com [192.251.235.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA13869 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:59:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpb@mail.hqs.crc.com) Received: from moses.hqs.crc.com(really [192.146.211.111]) by hobbes.crc.com via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:59:36 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #4 built 1997-Mar-21) Received: from mail.hqs.crc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moses.hqs.crc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA01078; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:59:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dpb@mail.hqs.crc.com) Message-ID: <3545D2B5.4F2E134C@mail.hqs.crc.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:59:33 -0400 From: Dan Benjamin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cupples_s@4j.lane.edu CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG cupples_s@4j.lane.edu wrote: > I was thinking that there should be little FreeBSD demons molded out of > some cheep plastic. Take and put them in Mickey D's or Burger King's > happy meal. Man alive I like this one, considering that Gateway ships spongy cows with their systems. I think a daemon item would be HUGE at trade shows. DO THIS! -- | Dan Benjamin | The views and opinions in this | | dpb@mail.hqs.crc.com | message are all mine, thank you. | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 07:14:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29610 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29601 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:14:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00301; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:14:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id JAA23982; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:13:36 -0500 Message-ID: <19980428091336.28656@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:13:36 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: gsutter@pobox.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Uptime References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from gsutter@pobox.com on Apr 04, 1998 at 04:37:46AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 04, 1998 at 04:37:46AM -0400, gsutter@pobox.com wrote: > It seems to me that a good advertising point for FreeBSD would be > uptime. For example, I had a 16MB 486 up for 71 days before a power > outage killed it. I have also seen posts with huge uptimes (600+ days) > that would be great advertising. > > For posters, etc: huge text in background, "465 Days", smaller bolder > text in fore with "FreeBSD uptime" and a catchy slogan, e.g. "What's a > crash?" > > For animated/movie art (or a t-shirt): Something like "Joe's FreeBSD > system has been running since..." and then various phrases or ideas > like... "Before that other operating system was written." or "Bill > Clinton was governor of Arkansas" and an appropriate picture or whatever > else you can think of. > > Of course, to do things like this, we need documentable uptimes. Who's > got the longest uptime? If you've got a really good one (couple hundred > days minimum is ideal), post the output of "date && uptime". Another dicksi^H^H^H^H^H^Huptime thread? I don't have a box with 600 day uptime, will you settle for half of that? % uname -r; date; uptime 2.2-960612-SNAP Tue Apr 28 08:59:28 CDT 1998 9:06AM up 304 days, 5:07, 1 user, load averages: 0.08, 0.08, 0.03 This is a little 386/20, w/4MB of memory, acting as a NTP server, socks5 proxy, and network monitor. It isn't idle; all socksified traffic (like CVSup) goes through this box. The machine itself is an old Packard Bell which reached the end of it's useful life (according to corporate), and which I reclaimed from the scrap heap. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 07:22:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01519 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:22:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01506 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-53.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.53]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA85748; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:22:19 GMT Message-ID: <3545E04A.1B9E4607@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:57:30 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If even K-Mart has $3 t-shirts you ought to be able to get it down further. Also, how about making a .ps file of 20 or so labels for those of us to download and print color labels? Pick a sheet-label size, make a .GIF, and embed it at the right places to match the labels. Congrats, Daddy. I recommend you don't start teaching basic logic gates until at least 3 ;) --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 07:32:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03143 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boober.lineone.net (boober-be.lineone.net [194.75.152.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03036 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:32:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurab@lineone.net) Received: from speedy (host5-99-43-150.btinternet.com [195.99.43.150]) by boober.lineone.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id PAA17324 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:32:10 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000301bd72b2$a00a0bc0$0400a8c0@speedy> Reply-To: "Chris R." From: "Chris R." To: Subject: FreeBSD Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:33:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi again all .......... been thinking of FreeBSD catch phrases - perhaps to use on mouse mats etc., 1) FreeBSD .......... its the need for speed 2) But why FreeBSD ? .......... it's the need for speed 3) Use the best - forget the rest ...... FreeBSD etc., etc.. Just something to throw into the melting pot there .......... Chris R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 10:24:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11889 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:24:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11877 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:24:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adamt@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.130]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with ESMTP id AAA115 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:27:07 -0400 Message-ID: <354610D5.F9AC5362@smginc.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:24:38 -0400 From: Adam Turoff Reply-To: adamt@smginc.com Organization: SMG Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: YA NT vs UNIX article Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I haven't exactly been keeping current on -hackers or -advocacy recently. Apologies if this reference was posted before. "The new Unix alters NT's orbit" by Nicholas Petreley http://www.ncworldmag.com/ncw-04-1998/ncw-04-nextten.html Great, solid anti-NT arguments, noting the emergence of Unix on Intel, naming Linux and FreeBSD multiple times. He even cites better performance using FreeBSD or BSDI on the same hardware as NT. Considering that Petreley writes many Linux-based articles (mostly documenting his test cases with Caldera and RedHat), this was an extremely nice piece mentioning FreeBSD. -- Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 19:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17899 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17603 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:44:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26866; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804290244.TAA26866@implode.root.com> To: "Chris R." cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:33:33 BST." <000301bd72b2$a00a0bc0$0400a8c0@speedy> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:44:47 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >1) FreeBSD .......... its the need for speed I think a lot of people would read this as "FreeBSD...in need of speed", or will think that "need for speed" is a warning that you'll need to upgrade your hardware to get decent performance. :-) I like your third one, though: >3) Use the best - forget the rest ...... FreeBSD -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 28 22:16:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19160 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:16:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misfit.users.xmission.com (misfit.users.xmission.com [207.135.128.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19144 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:16:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from misfit@misfit.users.xmission.com) Received: (from misfit@localhost) by misfit.users.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id XAA01929; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:16:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from misfit) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes References: <3545E04A.1B9E4607@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) Date: 28 Apr 1998 23:16:09 -0600 In-Reply-To: Don Wilde's message of "Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:57:30 -0700" Message-ID: <87somxp5ra.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don Wilde writes: > If even K-Mart has $3 t-shirts you ought to be able to get it down > further. Also, how about making a .ps file of 20 or so labels for those > of us to download and print color labels? Pick a sheet-label size, make > a .GIF, and embed it at the right places to match the labels. The real problem with cheap t-shirts is this: they are CHEAP. The material is usually very light and the print tends to fall off with washings. No. Don't go for the more inexpensive shirts. Go for the more pricy versions! People will enjoy them a lot more even though they have to pay a few extra dollars. -- Anthony C. Chavez To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 02:36:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07877 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07856 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:36:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([192.122.138.250]) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19984; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:06:18 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id QAA00925; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:50:51 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <19980428165048.25325@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:50:48 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: dwilde1@ibm.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [SPECweb] secret architectural discussion - shhh! References: <19949.893621805@time.cdrom.com> <354415D7.E4203555@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <354415D7.E4203555@ibm.net>; from Don Wilde on Sun, Apr 26, 1998 at 10:21:27PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 26 April 1998 at 22:21:27 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > I'm making this response public because I want my change in direction to > be clear to all of you. While Jordan and David have not said we cannot > win such a challenge as SPECweb with the proper equipment and > preparation, they are counselling a more patient approach that does not > require megabuck hardware and a dice roll, which is what a media whoopee > like I suggested would be. As somebody else has suggested here ( -chat ) > in the last hour, look at what Billy Boy's flop has cost him this last > month. We can't afford a public embarrassment like that. Although it > would've been a blast to set such a rocketfest up, the gamble is a very > large one and failure would burn too many bridges. Congratulations. It's obvious this wasn't an easy choice for you, but I agree it was the correct one. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 02:36:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07915 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:36:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07902 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:36:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([192.122.138.250]) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19990; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:06:40 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id OAA00808; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:53:50 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <19980428145348.09007@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:53:48 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Frank Pawlak Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <002501bd6fa1$c7fac480$0200a8c0@Dell> <199804241826.NAA01471@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199804241826.NAA01471@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 01:26:53PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (moved to -advocacy) On Fri, 24 April 1998 at 13:26:53 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > On 24 Apr, Dennis Reiter wrote: >>> From www.news.com : >> >> Netscape Communications' vice president of product development Marc >> Andreessen sees an economic shift on the horizon as freeware and >> Linux grow in popularity. He made his comments at the Massachusetts >> Software Council meeting in Boston today, saying that other than >> Windows NT, Linux is the only operating system currently gaining >> market share. > > Pardon the harsh language. But godamnit this shit pisses me off. Can't > wait till I get some burning issues off my plate and am able get back > into the foray, and work on some things to shove that attitude down > their collective throats. > > Wish to hell that these Linux groupies would get their heads out of > their asses and realise that the central issue is UNIX vs M$ no matter > what flag the various UNIX versions fly. Sorry, I don't really understand. What have the Linux people done wrong? > "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his > thumb with a hammer." Which thumb was it? :-) Seriously, I can understand people being disappointed that Linux is doing so much better than FreeBSD. But you shouldn't be angry at them for it. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 02:39:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08627 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:39:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08615 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([192.122.138.250]) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20010; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:08:23 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id NAA00664; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:41:31 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <19980428134130.00321@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:41:30 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Christopher Raven , dwilde1@ibm.net Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mouse mat References: <001601bd7167$4b90e880$263a63c3@speedy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <001601bd7167$4b90e880$263a63c3@speedy>; from Christopher Raven on Mon, Apr 27, 1998 at 12:00:31AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 27 April 1998 at 0:00:31 +0100, Christopher Raven wrote: > > I also have checked our position with Kirk McKusick the BSD daemon's > creator, and we are ok to use it so thats one less concern. Yes, I didn't expect any problems there. > All we need now is some graphics to use and a decision on the mats > texture. At the moment I guess its leaning towards the fabric top. Add my vote for cloth as well. Glossy mats don't work any better than no mat on most surfaces. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 02:42:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09570 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA09477 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:41:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([192.122.138.250]) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20024; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:11:18 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id OAA00672; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:52:44 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <19980429145242.02565@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:52:42 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: dwilde1@ibm.net, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Demo CDs (was: blessing) References: <17537.893491629@time.cdrom.com> <3541F04D.474FE994@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <3541F04D.474FE994@ibm.net>; from Don Wilde on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 07:16:45AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 25 April 1998 at 7:16:45 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >> [Sorry for delay] >> >> > Okay, the first thing I'd like to do is to return this discussion to >> > -advocacy. I need enthusiastic people and they need leadership. >> >> Agreed. Listen to General Wilde, folks. :-) > > Second, the easy-demo-version disk is a real winner, especially a > you-*can't*-break-anything version that runs completely off the CD > and DRAM. _Please_ keep working on these, because I'm gonna be way > too busy to do more than kibitz.(Greg and Eivind?). Is this me you're talking about? I thought my role was to stand in the wings and encourage people. OK, so what do we need? My thought is for two or three preinstalled versions: 1. A CD-ROM-based version which will boot from CD-ROM, Microsoft or floppy, create an MFS file system for things that really need to write to "disk", and other than that run from CD-ROM. Create the / file system on the mfs and symlinks to just about everything except /tmp, /var/tmp and /home to the CD-ROM. With any luck, we should be able to get away with 4 MB MFS. 2. PicoBSD for those who want it. Copy to floppy and execute. 3. In the background, for those who are hooked, the regular installable version of FreeBSD. Versions (1) and (2) would effectively be canned versions which couldn't easily be modified. Run with "standard" peripherals, including Enternet and SVGA to 1024x768, but with a base resolution of 640x480 so that X will come up on just about any currently available board. Include a functional fvwm95 window mangler so that what comes up looks pretty much like what Microsoft users are used to (can somebody come up with a daemon logo to fit where Microsoft puts its windows logo?). Also a PPP configuration that could easily be modified to suit just about anything that the standard Windows 95% can do. This thing needs more flesh. Any ideas? What problems do you see? About the biggest one I see so far is how to find the mouse. It would be nice to modify startx to check for the mouse if no valid pointer section is found in the XF86Config file ("no mouse found: please move your mouse around until I say \"stop\""). Anybody know how to recognize a mouse? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 03:02:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13599 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (intschool.easynet.co.uk [194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13576 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) From: stuart@internationalschool.co.uk Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (diatom.mm.ints.ml.org [10.0.1.135]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07356; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:00:45 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3546FA50.52F7A98E@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:00:48 +0100 Organization: Multimedia Centre, The International School X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dwilde1@ibm.net CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: blessing References: <17537.893491629@time.cdrom.com> <3541F04D.474FE994@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don Wilde wrote: > All right, I still say we do it in Berkeley somewhere because of the > historical tie-in. Have any of you ever seen the laser datalinks made by > American Laser and others? I did a video link test across San Pedro > harbor once and it was really trivial to set up. Line of site, a mile of > pure raw speed. We will have to get a permit to do it, but a > temporary-link permit is doable. try www.waveaccess.com or www.proxim.com or someone like that, no permit needed. Waveaccess looks particularly interesting. Even a wavelan card would probably work depending on how far it's gotta go... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 06:45:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03940 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 06:45:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hobbes.crc.com (hobbes.crc.com [192.251.235.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA03914 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 06:45:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpb@yeti.hqs.crc.com) Received: from yeti.hqs.crc.com(really [192.146.211.204]) by hobbes.crc.com via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:45:37 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #4 built 1997-Mar-21) Received: from moses.hqs.crc.com (moses.hqs.crc.com [192.146.211.111]) by yeti.hqs.crc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA06206; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:46:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dpb@yeti.hqs.crc.com) Message-ID: <001401bd7375$1741d480$6fd392c0@moses.hqs.crc.com> From: "Dan Benjamin" To: "Greg Lehey" , , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:45:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >board. Include a functional fvwm95 window mangler so that what comes >up looks pretty much like what Microsoft users are used to (can >somebody come up with a daemon logo to fit where Microsoft puts its >windows logo?). These already exist - if you use the fvwm95 package and install the fbsd_icon package - it's already got a taskbar mod to insert the daemon where the 95 logo goes, and a "FreeBSD" graphic to go where "Windows 95" goes (lenghtwise along the start menu). >This thing needs more flesh. Any ideas? What problems do you see? >About the biggest one I see so far is how to find the mouse. It would >be nice to modify startx to check for the mouse if no valid pointer >section is found in the XF86Config file ("no mouse found: please move >your mouse around until I say \"stop\""). Anybody know how to >recognize a mouse? This is a good point - is it safe enough to assume that most people have com 1 free? Even on systems where there is a ps2 style mouse, com 1 is usually unused. We could specify that they need to use a serial mouse on com1 to get things started. It's not too much to ask IMHO. -Dan B. dan@bsdweek.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 07:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14053 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from the.oneinsane.net (insane@gw.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13999 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:33:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@oneinsane.net) Received: (from insane@localhost) Message-ID: <19980429073323.30046@the.oneinsane.net> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:33:23 -0700 From: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD References: <000301bd72b2$a00a0bc0$0400a8c0@speedy> <199804290244.TAA26866@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e In-Reply-To: <199804290244.TAA26866@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 07:44:47PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD the.oneinsane.net 2.2.5-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 07:44:47PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: > I like your third one, though: > > >3) Use the best - forget the rest ...... FreeBSD > > -DG > I like this one as well. or we could have one like this. FreeBSD: There is no Substitute. Ron -- -------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void -------------------------------------------------------- It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 07:42:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16727 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16711 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA28257 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:39:47 +0200 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10426 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:02:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id QAA23300; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:41:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19980429164116.30412@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:41:16 +0200 From: Philippe Regnauld To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Very good NT <-> UNIX article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Organization: PROSA Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry if this has been seen before, I'm not on the list: http://www.ncworldmag.com/ncw-04-1998/ncw-04-nextten.html FreeBSD quoted many times -- good tech. references. and also http://www.ncworldmag.com/ncworld/ncw-03-1998/ncw-03-nextten.html -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- ŦPluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?ŧ - S. Kelly Bootle To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 09:18:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05341 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:18:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05318 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:18:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (harconia-2-74.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.132.202]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id KAA05274; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:42:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01552; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:43:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804292343.SAA01552@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:43:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing To: grog@lemis.com cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980428145348.09007@papillon.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28 Apr, Greg Lehey wrote: > (moved to -advocacy) > > On Fri, 24 April 1998 at 13:26:53 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: >> On 24 Apr, Dennis Reiter wrote: >>>> From www.news.com : >>> >>> Netscape Communications' vice president of product development Marc >>> Andreessen sees an economic shift on the horizon as freeware and >>> Linux grow in popularity. He made his comments at the Massachusetts >>> Software Council meeting in Boston today, saying that other than >>> Windows NT, Linux is the only operating system currently gaining >>> market share. In retrospect I feel my comment to a bit on the strong side. It was made out of frustration with Andeessen's appearent bow to the Linux camp,and all of the issues of the free software summit. Maybe he is correct that Linux and NT are the only current OS's that are gaining market share, or in my mind that carries the implication that we are not. As the VP of product development at Netscape he has to be aware of us, BSDI and the other BSD platforms, yet the browser that they produce for BSD platforms never makes it out of the development directory on their web site. It is included with statements that this is esentailly untested software, and there it stays. This carries the implication that BSD platforms are not taken seriously enough to provide a shipping product, as they do for Linux or for that matter SUN etc., which by implication are loosing market share and or not viable alternatives to NT. So it is probably not that the Linux people have done something wrong, however there is a large element within the Linux community that would be delighted if BSD were to fall off the free OS radar screen. Occasionaly I read their NGs and very often that message is made loud and clear. These people may or may not be the majority voice of Linux, but I suspect that they might be. It is just tough to know there are excellent alternatives to both Linux and NT and not get recognized by folk that develop apps for that product. Add to that my sometimes fiery nature and sparks can and sometimes do fly. However, most times I refrain from being a losse cannon, >> >> Pardon the harsh language. But godamnit this shit pisses me off. Can't >> wait till I get some burning issues off my plate and am able get back >> into the foray, and work on some things to shove that attitude down >> their collective throats. >> >> Wish to hell that these Linux groupies would get their heads out of >> their asses and realise that the central issue is UNIX vs M$ no matter >> what flag the various UNIX versions fly. > > Sorry, I don't really understand. What have the Linux people done > wrong? > >> "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his >> thumb with a hammer." > > Which thumb was it? :-) Depends, are you right or left handed? ;-) > > Seriously, I can understand people being disappointed that Linux is > doing so much better than FreeBSD. But you shouldn't be angry at them > for it. In this you are correct and we can agree. But if Andreessen is expecting to replace NT on the desktop with Linux he must be smoking something that interferes with clear thinking. Can't say that browsers are used on servers a whole lot. So by implication he is considering their server software getting ported to Linux. This is another blow to our cause. In my opinion this is an area on which we need to work very hard as a group. Have some ideas germinating that I will post soon. Till then I'm off the stump. Comments please. Frank > > Greg -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 11:38:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01707 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA01258 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from ares.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa12865; 29 Apr 98 14:34 EDT Received: from mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.67.12]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08111 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (atf3r@localhost) by mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21367 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:33:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU: atf3r owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:33:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) In-Reply-To: <19980429145242.02565@papillon.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > OK, so what do we need? My thought is for two or three preinstalled > versions: > > 1. A CD-ROM-based version which will boot from CD-ROM, Microsoft or > floppy, create an MFS file system for things that really need to > write to "disk", and other than that run from CD-ROM. Create the > / file system on the mfs and symlinks to just about everything > except /tmp, /var/tmp and /home to the CD-ROM. With any luck, we > should be able to get away with 4 MB MFS. If the machine had a disk with a well supported DOS-ish fs on it, then you could configure a vnode on to a large file and mount that as the non-volitile filesytem. Perhaps the fbsdboot.exe program could be extended to support this. Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualization Lab ->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 13:10:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17865 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:10:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17834 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09912; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:09:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Dan Benjamin" cc: "Greg Lehey" , dwilde1@ibm.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:45:37 EDT." <001401bd7375$1741d480$6fd392c0@moses.hqs.crc.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:09:42 -0700 Message-ID: <9908.893880582@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > These already exist - if you use the fvwm95 package and install the > fbsd_icon package - it's already got a taskbar mod to insert the daemon > where the 95 logo goes, and a "FreeBSD" graphic to go where "Windows 95" > goes (lenghtwise along the start menu). Break the problem up - one team focus on tools like this and forget the mice. Another can work on getting the X server up more reliably and together, maybe they'll come up with something to rival RedHat 5.0's default config. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 15:06:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14376 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:06:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14222 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@dialB0b.aei.ca [206.123.6.95]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27042; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3547A403.6E80E1A4@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:04:52 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: dwilde1@ibm.net, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) References: <17537.893491629@time.cdrom.com> <3541F04D.474FE994@ibm.net> <19980429145242.02565@papillon.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sat, 25 April 1998 at 7:16:45 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> > >> [Sorry for delay] > >> > >> > Okay, the first thing I'd like to do is to return this discussion to > >> > -advocacy. I need enthusiastic people and they need leadership. > >> > >> Agreed. Listen to General Wilde, folks. :-) > > > > Second, the easy-demo-version disk is a real winner, especially a > > you-*can't*-break-anything version that runs completely off the CD > > and DRAM. _Please_ keep working on these, because I'm gonna be way > > too busy to do more than kibitz.(Greg and Eivind?). > > Is this me you're talking about? I thought my role was to stand in > the wings and encourage people. > > OK, so what do we need? My thought is for two or three preinstalled > versions: > > 1. A CD-ROM-based version which will boot from CD-ROM, Microsoft or > floppy, create an MFS file system for things that really need to > write to "disk", and other than that run from CD-ROM. Create the > / file system on the mfs and symlinks to just about everything > except /tmp, /var/tmp and /home to the CD-ROM. With any luck, we > should be able to get away with 4 MB MFS. > > 2. PicoBSD for those who want it. Copy to floppy and execute. > > 3. In the background, for those who are hooked, the regular > installable version of FreeBSD. > > Versions (1) and (2) would effectively be canned versions which > couldn't easily be modified. Run with "standard" peripherals, > including Enternet and SVGA to 1024x768, but with a base resolution of > 640x480 so that X will come up on just about any currently available > board. Include a functional fvwm95 window mangler so that what comes > up looks pretty much like what Microsoft users are used to (can > somebody come up with a daemon logo to fit where Microsoft puts its > windows logo?). Also a PPP configuration that could easily be > modified to suit just about anything that the standard Windows 95% can > do. > > This thing needs more flesh. Any ideas? What problems do you see? > About the biggest one I see so far is how to find the mouse. It would > be nice to modify startx to check for the mouse if no valid pointer > section is found in the XF86Config file ("no mouse found: please move > your mouse around until I say \"stop\""). Anybody know how to > recognize a mouse? > > Greg > Well, I dont see why you want to do that lite version.Can you explain me to who you will give that package? If you try to put that on a popular magazine, I dont think any Win95 user will succesfully try it... People (maybe like me 4 weeks ago) who use win95 will never understand your product in that *lite* way. 1: What's your market: Win95 user, Linux user, Unix user, Server Admin, kids? 2: If its server market, you dont need a Lite version 3: If its Win95 even Mac, no one will understand They will think it run under Win95 and they will flood questions@freebsd.org 4: If its Linux, it will work because linux user will understand, but like I was saying, put FreeBSD, not a FreeBSD lite. That should be a good idea, on some Unix mag or linux mag. 5: You never need a Lite package. Do a MPEG video or an apps who will show the OS's power. Maybe a Java Applet on the web should be a good idea... FreeBSD will never be for normal user who only want a good MS-Words-like-apps. Win95 do the jobs. Your main target should be: 1: Server (kill BSDi!) 2: Take Linux user 3: Take other Unix user 4: *Maybe* WinNT user Play the game: Take Linux User, Server Admin. If I was you, I would do publicity in the Unix world. Like posters, pamphlet, brochure, explanation sheet. Be at all exposition, comdex. Sorry for my bad english and for the long boring mail! Just an opinion Malartre *PS: find some student in marketing!!! Use universities* -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 19:05:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04837 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uop.cs.uop.edu (uop.cs.uop.edu [138.9.200.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04752 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:05:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bford@uop.cs.uop.edu) Received: from heather (user217.pop2.cwia.com [209.142.32.217]) by uop.cs.uop.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA19179; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004c01bd73dc$3650b460$0100a8c0@heather.my.domain> From: "Bret Ford" To: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:03:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 07:44:47PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> I like your third one, though: >> >> >3) Use the best - forget the rest ...... FreeBSD >> >> -DG >> >I like this one as well. or we could have one like this. > >FreeBSD: There is no Substitute. > And for the "Professional" version discussed in an earlier thread, how about: FeeBSD Bret Ford To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 20:17:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17671 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:17:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17664 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11086; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804300317.UAA11086@implode.root.com> To: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes In-reply-to: Your message of "28 Apr 1998 23:16:09 MDT." <87somxp5ra.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:17:18 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Don Wilde writes: > >> If even K-Mart has $3 t-shirts you ought to be able to get it down >> further. Also, how about making a .ps file of 20 or so labels for those >> of us to download and print color labels? Pick a sheet-label size, make >> a .GIF, and embed it at the right places to match the labels. > >The real problem with cheap t-shirts is this: they are CHEAP. The material is >usually very light and the print tends to fall off with washings. No. Don't >go for the more inexpensive shirts. Go for the more pricy versions! People >will enjoy them a lot more even though they have to pay a few extra dollars. Shameless plug: The FreeBSD T-shirts that WC CDROM is selling are quite nice and of excellent quality. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 21:07:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25026 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:07:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24981 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:07:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-144.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.144]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA50946; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:07:04 GMT Message-ID: <3547F5D8.6483848E@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:54:00 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD References: <000301bd72b2$a00a0bc0$0400a8c0@speedy> <199804290244.TAA26866@implode.root.com> <19980429073323.30046@the.oneinsane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > >3) Use the best - forget the rest ...... FreeBSD > I like this one as well. or we could have one like this. > > FreeBSD: There is no Substitute. "FreeBSD: The Power to Serve" with Daemon Chuckie holding a platter of disks instead of a pitchfork. Or handing YOU the pitchfork :) FreeBSD: software power for free FreeBSD: Free source, no speed limit! FreeBSD: Free software, license to lightspeed! --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 21:07:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25062 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24989 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:07:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-144.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.144]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA84966; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:07:01 GMT Message-ID: <3547F446.6983AB19@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:47:18 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) References: <17537.893491629@time.cdrom.com> <3541F04D.474FE994@ibm.net> <19980429145242.02565@papillon.lemis.com> <3547A403.6E80E1A4@aei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think my "demo's" that I talk about use programming to do what your MPEG shows, except that they are easier and more impressive. We want to use FreeBSD to showcase FreeBSD, in a way that won't risk their hard disk. Everything comes off the CD, loads into RAM, and mostly whizbangs all on its own with scripts and cron jobs. It's just a teaser, a "wow, it can do that? Windows is so blah compared to that!", but that has the Handbook to study and some programs to play with. It's not for sysadmins, it's more for popular magazine editors and celebs and Joe Public. It's a completely risk-free harmless intro to FreeBSD for anybody. You bet I want W95 people, I also want people who would normally go Linux. People who will add an extra HDD to load FreeBSD alongside their 95. Of course, if you want to make mpeg's, I'll be glad to have them too!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 21:07:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25108 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24982 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:07:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-144.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.144]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA16812; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:06:56 GMT Message-ID: <3547F0F1.280A76EA@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:33:05 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) References: <17537.893491629@time.cdrom.com> <3541F04D.474FE994@ibm.net> <19980429145242.02565@papillon.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > Second, the easy-demo-version disk is a real winner, especially a > > you-*can't*-break-anything version that runs completely off the CD > > and DRAM. _Please_ keep working on these, because I'm gonna be way > > too busy to do more than kibitz.(Greg and Eivind?). > > Is this me you're talking about? I thought my role was to stand in > the wings and encourage people. Your role is whatever you want it to be, Greg. I'm not "General", I'm only an enthusiastic advocate who saw an opportunity but was counseled to take a safer course by others and agreed with their reasoning. I know you have been thinking on these lines before, that's why I poked you specifically. > OK, so what do we need? My thought is for two or three preinstalled > versions: > > 1. A CD-ROM-based version which will boot from CD-ROM, Microsoft or > floppy, create an MFS file system for things that really need to > write to "disk", and other than that run from CD-ROM. Create the > / file system on the mfs and symlinks to just about everything > except /tmp, /var/tmp and /home to the CD-ROM. With any luck, we > should be able to get away with 4 MB MFS. One danger I see is that just giving people a ram based "normal" system is that they will say "okay, so what. What's it do?" I think we want to can a bit more, for instance, by using Apache and Mozilla or the new HTML3.2 Chimera which I see is on 2.2.6 to include the HTML-version Handbook AND some canned info pages. For instance, use cron to schedule some changes in the root window at different times, so they are encouraged to leave BSD running in order to see them, and they can keep playing with it while they wait. I think we should spoon-feed them as much as we can by leaving a TOP window open in the background, for instance, as well as an xterm to play with. We want to showcase FreeBSD as a system which can do more things than they are used to, and I also think it is a big mistake to use fvwm95 as the only window manager. If we must use it, have it be one of a bunch which can be selected, much like fvwm has 'restart X with twm, olvwm, etc'. The key to BSD is its scripting and scheduling and multiple-job-ness. We need to highlight the improvements, not the fact that it can be made to look like the abortion we all despise. I'm leery of resolution changes beyond SVGA capability, no card optimization or color depth. I would like to be able to read and write from a floppy, either via mtools or native, so we can allow user to createa and save, say, their own HTML files or graphics and then reload them into the MFS RAMdisk. This is what I think we should concentrate on. I want it to be bulletproof and safe, but preprogrammed to be powerful. It's got to impress people who are afraid to touch the keyboard, but be usable in case they do actually get up the courage. This means being careful of the commands we enable and the permissions on things, so that they can play _while_ our demos are rolling in the background. This will really wow them. > 2. PicoBSD for those who want it. Copy to floppy and execute. Haven't tried that yet, don't know much about it. > > 3. In the background, for those who are hooked, the regular > installable version of FreeBSD. YES! Our goal, of course, and let me say that I like the improvements I've seen so far in 2.2.6, although I'm dismayed at the number of dangling ports-dependencies that seem to be broken. This does not look good. > > Versions (1) and (2) would effectively be canned versions which > couldn't easily be modified. Run with "standard" peripherals, > including Enternet and SVGA to 1024x768, but with a base resolution of > 640x480 so that X will come up on just about any currently available > board. Include a functional fvwm95 window mangler so that what comes > up looks pretty much like what Microsoft users are used to (can > somebody come up with a daemon logo to fit where Microsoft puts its > windows logo?). Also a PPP configuration that could easily be > modified to suit just about anything that the standard Windows 95% can > do. See anti-95 comments above. OS/2 tried to be more windows than windows, and we saw what that got them. I also don't think ethernet would be appropriate. This _is_ just a demo, remember, and it is of extremely limited utility without access to a hard disk. Ditto ppp and printers, too many variables. At least for the first pass, anyway. We want this to be no-brainer demo material: it does what it does, and it does it perfectly. No questions, no controversy, just demonstrated neat power and LOTS of FreeBSD material for them to study while they are waiting for that new O'Reilly book with CD's from WC to hit their doorstep :))) 640MB is a _lot_ of room for demos and scripts and HTML, since we need no source or most of the programs. > > This thing needs more flesh. Any ideas? What problems do you see? > About the biggest one I see so far is how to find the mouse. It would > be nice to modify startx to check for the mouse if no valid pointer > section is found in the XF86Config file ("no mouse found: please move > your mouse around until I say \"stop\""). Anybody know how to > recognize a mouse? How about the simpler "Move your mouse. When it moves, hit space bar" "Hit left button" "Hit center button" "Is everything working?", maybe add beeps. I have an article I'm working on and a zillion non-FreeBSD things as well, but I really want this to fly. I just got 'make' from O'Reilly to study so I can understand how to build dependency trees, and I'm getting 2.2.6 pushed into shape on my home machine. Once I'm comfortably 'up' again, I will start digging into this. It'll be fun! Your knowledge is an asset, Greg. I can come up with lots of "what-to's", you point me in the direction of "how-to". Comments, everybody else? If I'm the only one doing stuff it ain't going to happen fast, but if we each add to the framework and the how-to base, it'll get done and we can start giving them out pretty quickly. I've just begun to study how the kernel and the various filesystem types are designed. I haven't gotten into the differences between the BOOTMFS and regular kernels yet, although it appears that's an appropriate topic to dig into. kernel with MFS filesystem loads script determines RAM size, mouse questions, X screen size programs needed fast loaded into MFS start apache httpd's basic X loads enable cron jobs of demos pop open browser on basic howtos of demo system, links to Handbook pages on CD and FreeBSD purchase info, users groups, etc. user has choice of wm's, applets, etc., from menus tkman? xv? gimp? xpaint? what other applications? generic AdLib sound would be nice! I guess the first thing I need to know is how to set up a spare piece of my disk to play with this without repartitioning my main system. I have a big disk (3.2G SCSI) which is just my /var. How would I go about making a kernel program to "boot" from part of this, and how do I limit its memory use to just part of my 64MB? I'd prefer to have my new kernel operate as a task within my working system, so I can learn to use the debugger on it, and then have it spawn its own processes, but if that's not possible I can accept booting a kernel from the real root which then changes root to my test filesystem. Worst case I still have 2 IDE spots open, I can go find a 1G disk and make it bootable. I also have a monochrome 486 lunchbox I can rejuvenate to be a test case, but it needs a hard disk also. :\ If I can resolve this I can host the sample system. I have both IDE and SCSI CD drives I can test, lots of bits and pieces. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 21:52:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02709 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:52:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02697 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:52:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-12.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.61]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA13103; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:50:24 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980429215022.006a8248@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:50:22 -0700 To: dg@root.com, misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804300317.UAA11086@implode.root.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:17 PM 4/29/98 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > Shameless plug: The FreeBSD T-shirts that WC CDROM is selling are quite >nice and of excellent quality. They have t-shirts? Why doesn't anyone tell me these things. Doh! hehe So how much are they? Maybe I should order one when I order the book and new version of FreeBSD. :) Joey Garcia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 22:58:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12306 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:58:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12136 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12959; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804300557.WAA12959@implode.root.com> To: Joey Garcia cc: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:50:22 PDT." <3.0.1.32.19980429215022.006a8248@pacificnet.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:57:38 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >At 08:17 PM 4/29/98 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > >> Shameless plug: The FreeBSD T-shirts that WC CDROM is selling are quite >>nice and of excellent quality. > >They have t-shirts? Why doesn't anyone tell me these things. Doh! hehe So >how much are they? Maybe I should order one when I order the book and new >version of FreeBSD. :) $16. Here's the URL: http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/fbsdtsh.htm -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 23:15:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15002 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (root@ms11.hinet.net [168.95.4.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14990 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:15:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwlo@ms11.hinet.net) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (h35.s9.ts32.hinet.net [163.32.9.35]) by ms11.hinet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28373; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:17:24 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <354815FA.6D5EE411@ms11.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:11:06 +0800 From: Doug Lo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia CC: dg@root.com, "Anthony C. Chavez" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes References: <3.0.1.32.19980429215022.006a8248@pacificnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joey Garcia wrote: > At 08:17 PM 4/29/98 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > > > Shameless plug: The FreeBSD T-shirts that WC CDROM is selling are quite > >nice and of excellent quality. > > They have t-shirts? Why doesn't anyone tell me these things. Doh! hehe So > how much are they? Maybe I should order one when I order the book and new > version of FreeBSD. :) Joey, I have ordered a T-shirt on 3/31/98', but I don't recieve it YET. :-( I don't know what's wrong with them, I sent them a mail to ask them why I don't recieve it so far, but they didn't have any response. Seems they are not efficient at work. You would order the t-shirt at http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/fbsdtsh.htm Best regards, Doug. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 29 23:47:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19151 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:47:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19142 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13807; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Doug Lo cc: Joey Garcia , dg@root.com, "Anthony C. Chavez" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:11:06 +0800." <354815FA.6D5EE411@ms11.hinet.net> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:47:06 -0700 Message-ID: <13804.893918826@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have ordered a T-shirt on 3/31/98', but I don't recieve it YET. :-( > I don't know what's wrong with them, I sent them a mail to ask them why I don 't > recieve it so far, > but they didn't have any response. Seems they are not efficient at work. Where did you send it? Send a note to orders@cdrom.com and you should get some sort of reply within 72 hours. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 00:01:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20970 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA20959 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from (uk.radan.com) [158.152.75.22] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yUnLE-00025N-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:01:12 +0100 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA03551 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:00:32 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03081; Thu, 30 Apr 98 08:00:31 BST Message-Id: <35482176.64329333@uk.radan.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:00:06 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD References: <000301bd72b2$a00a0bc0$0400a8c0@speedy> <199804290244.TAA26866@implode.root.com> <19980429073323.30046@the.oneinsane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 07:44:47PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: > > I like your third one, though: > > > > >3) Use the best - forget the rest ...... FreeBSD > > > > -DG > > > I like this one as well. or we could have one like this. > > FreeBSD: There is no Substitute. > ...or in answer to M$'s question - FreeBSD - We went there yesterday > Ron > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------- > Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... > The InSaNe One rm -rf * > insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void > -------------------------------------------------------- > It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. -- Mark Ovens | char str[] = "GsffCTE!.!Uif!Qpxfs!Up!Tfswf!!"; CNC Apps Engineer | char *s = str; Radan Computational Ltd | while (*s) printf("%c", --*s++); mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 00:46:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26668 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:46:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boober.lineone.net (boober-be.lineone.net [194.75.152.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA26656 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:45:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurab@lineone.net) Received: from speedy (host5-171-228-135.btinternet.com [195.171.228.135]) by boober.lineone.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id IAA12536; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:45:21 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000a01bd740c$1e01b5a0$0400a8c0@speedy> Reply-To: "Chris R." From: "Chris R." To: "Mark Ovens" Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:46:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> > >> > >3) Use the best - forget the rest ...... FreeBSD >> > >> > -DG >> > >> I like this one as well. or we could have one like this. >> >> FreeBSD: There is no Substitute. >> > >...or in answer to M$'s question - > > FreeBSD - We went there yesterday > > I think this one can also mean FreeBSD is yesterdays technology :-( Chris R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 02:11:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07055 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (root@ms11.hinet.net [168.95.4.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07025 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwlo@ms11.hinet.net) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (dialup205.cyut.edu.tw [163.17.3.205] (may be forged)) by ms11.hinet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19971; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:12:47 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <35483F12.7B40B44C@ms11.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:06:26 +0800 From: Doug Lo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Joey Garcia , dg@root.com, "Anthony C. Chavez" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes References: <13804.893918826@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I have ordered a T-shirt on 3/31/98', but I don't recieve it YET. :-( > > I don't know what's wrong with them, I sent them a mail to ask them why I don > 't > > recieve it so far, > > but they didn't have any response. Seems they are not efficient at work. > > Where did you send it? Taiwan. > Send a note to orders@cdrom.com and you should > get some sort of reply within 72 hours. Jordan,In fact, I have sent this email address before, I didn't get any reponse YET.They reply within 72 hours to custormers ? Well, I doubt it The ONLY thing I can do is WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. :-( Regards, Doug. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 02:13:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07391 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:13:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07305 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:12:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id CAA10792; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <35482176.64329333@uk.radan.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:12:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: FreeBSD * slogans* Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA07309 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 30-Apr-98 Mark Ovens wisely wrote: > Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson wrote: >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 07:44:47PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> > I like your third one, though: >> > >> > >3) Use the best - forget the rest ...... FreeBSD >> > >> > -DG >> > >> I like this one as well. or we could have one like this. >> >> FreeBSD: There is no Substitute. >> > > ...or in answer to M$'s question - > > FreeBSD - We went there yesterday Or how about... MS - where do you want to go today? FreeBSD - Been there done that.. Next.. FreeBSD.. What worlds are you ready to conqure? FreeBSD.. Start..with the best Or.. FreeBSD.. accept no substitute FreeBSD.. It's not Just better... Get it, Run it, Thrill with it.... FreeBSD FreeBSD.. When it has to be right, the first time FreeBSD.. becouse you don't have time to learn the hard way FreeBSD.. the fuel for the nuclear generation/age FreeBSD.. evolve (ok not so original) FreeBSD.. It's time! FreeBSD.. when you know what you need/want! FreeBSD.. It was, it is (ok a bit deep) Or the politians vesions.. Linux.. what kernel do you need today? Linux.. Where are you? Linux.. How's that pronounced again? Linux.. which version, which day, which distribution...which.... Nicole Feeling oddly creative... nicole@webweaver.net |\ __ /| (`\ http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | o_o |__ ) ) http://www.dangermouse.org/ // \\ ---------------------------(((---(((------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 02:25:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09272 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:25:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA09263 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:25:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA14661; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:24:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Doug Lo cc: Joey Garcia , dg@root.com, "Anthony C. Chavez" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:06:26 +0800." <35483F12.7B40B44C@ms11.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:24:38 -0700 Message-ID: <14657.893928278@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Where did you send it? > > Taiwan. No, I meant which email address you sent it _to_, but no matter - you've used orders@cdrom.com before I guess. > Jordan,In fact, I have sent this email address before, I didn't get any repo nse > YET.They reply within 72 hours to custormers ? Well, I doubt it > The ONLY thing I can do is WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. :-( Please, calm down. Getting all upset helps no one to resolve these issues and only gets in the way. The person who generally reads this mail was away for a month having a baby and her replacement (who no longer works here) evidently did not do a very good job of filling in. She is back now and answering emails, and if you'll be so good as to submit your complaint one last time to orders@cdrom.com I'm sure you'll get a response. If you don't, then simply let me know 72 hours afterwards and I'll personally take it up with her to find out why things are not being cleared from the support queue. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 03:04:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13367 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13269 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:03:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04279; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:03:21 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19980430120320.A4219@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:03:20 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD * slogans* Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <35482176.64329333@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicole on Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 02:12:21AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 02:12:21AM -0700, Nicole wrote: > FreeBSD.. Start..with the best A while back I experimented with using fvwm95, and changed the 'Start' button to have a little daemon icon with the text 'Work'. Lost the picture and patches tho. A full scale version might make a nice mousepad. -Jeremy -- | ----------------------------------------------------- --+-- "What a crazy world we live in, | we save the whales yet support abortion" - MIC | ----------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 03:54:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19032 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (root@ms11.hinet.net [168.95.4.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19025 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwlo@ms11.hinet.net) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (dialup247.cyut.edu.tw [163.17.3.247] (may be forged)) by ms11.hinet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27765; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:56:35 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <35485767.57B64B0@ms11.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:50:15 +0800 From: Doug Lo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Joey Garcia , dg@root.com, "Anthony C. Chavez" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes References: <14657.893928278@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Where did you send it? > > > > Taiwan. > > No, I meant which email address you sent it _to_, but no matter - you've > used orders@cdrom.com before I guess. Sorry, I misunderstood. I used "jwlo@ms11.hinet.net" email address to send. > > Jordan,In fact, I have sent this email address before, I didn't get any repo > nse > > YET.They reply within 72 hours to custormers ? Well, I doubt it > > The ONLY thing I can do is WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. :-( > > Please, calm down. Getting all upset helps no one to resolve these > issues and only gets in the way. The person who generally reads this > mail was away for a month having a baby and her replacement (who no > longer works here) evidently did not do a very good job of filling in. > She is back now and answering emails, and if you'll be so good as to > submit your complaint one last time to orders@cdrom.com I'm sure > you'll get a response. If you don't, then simply let me know 72 hours > afterwards and I'll personally take it up with her to find out why > things are not being cleared from the support queue. Okay, I see. Thanks your help. I'll send them email again. Thanks again, Doug. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 03:59:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19418 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:59:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (root@ms11.hinet.net [168.95.4.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19413 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:59:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwlo@ms11.hinet.net) Received: from ms11.hinet.net (dialup206.cyut.edu.tw [163.17.3.206] (may be forged)) by ms11.hinet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28058; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:01:44 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <3548589C.C10CE1D4@ms11.hinet.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:55:24 +0800 From: Doug Lo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Joey Garcia , dg@root.com, "Anthony C. Chavez" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes References: <14657.893928278@time.cdrom.com> <35485767.57B64B0@ms11.hinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Lo wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > Where did you send it? > > > > > > Taiwan. > > > > No, I meant which email address you sent it _to_, but no matter - you've > > used orders@cdrom.com before I guess. > > Sorry, I misunderstood. I used "jwlo@ms11.hinet.net" email address to send. Oops! Sorry, that's my email address. I used orders@cdrom.com & orders@pike.cdrom.com to send it to them. > > > > > Jordan,In fact, I have sent this email address before, I didn't get any repo > > nse > > > YET.They reply within 72 hours to custormers ? Well, I doubt it > > > The ONLY thing I can do is WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. :-( > > > > Please, calm down. Getting all upset helps no one to resolve these > > issues and only gets in the way. The person who generally reads this > > mail was away for a month having a baby and her replacement (who no > > longer works here) evidently did not do a very good job of filling in. > > She is back now and answering emails, and if you'll be so good as to > > submit your complaint one last time to orders@cdrom.com I'm sure > > you'll get a response. If you don't, then simply let me know 72 hours > > afterwards and I'll personally take it up with her to find out why > > things are not being cleared from the support queue. > > Okay, I see. Thanks your help. I'll send them email again. > > Thanks again, > Doug. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 04:37:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26202 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:37:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26186 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm02-02.aei.ca [206.123.6.127]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA17059; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3548625D.823DDBDB@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:37:01 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dwilde1@ibm.net CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) References: <17537.893491629@time.cdrom.com> <3541F04D.474FE994@ibm.net> <19980429145242.02565@papillon.lemis.com> <3547A403.6E80E1A4@aei.ca> <3547F446.6983AB19@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don Wilde wrote: > I think my "demo's" that I talk about use programming to do what your > MPEG shows, except that they are easier and more impressive. We want to > use FreeBSD to showcase FreeBSD, in a way that won't risk their hard > disk. Everything comes off the CD, loads into RAM, and mostly whizbangs > all on its own with scripts and cron jobs. It's just a teaser, a "wow, > it can do that? Windows is so blah compared to that!", but that has the > Handbook to study and some programs to play with. It's not for > sysadmins, it's more for popular magazine editors and celebs and Joe > Public. It's a completely risk-free harmless intro to FreeBSD for > anybody. You bet I want W95 people, I also want people who would > normally go Linux. People who will add an extra HDD to load FreeBSD > alongside their 95. > > Of course, if you want to make mpeg's, I'll be glad to have them too!!! Sorry all, I have not understanded in the previous msg than it was only in the RAM :-/ Argh my english sucks Hum, you will have to do a good doc & FAQ with it :-) For the mouse, searching the FAQ I have finded: /etc/rc.conf: moused_type=auto # see the rc.conf man page Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 05:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01644 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:23:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailman.naxs.com (MAILMAN.naxs.com [206.31.102.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01638 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:23:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aiarbuckle@naxs.com) Received: from naxs.com ([206.31.122.175]) by mailman.naxs.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42723U8000L3500S0) with ESMTP id AAA84; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:24:19 -0400 Message-ID: <35486C33.B74870F4@naxs.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:18:59 -0400 From: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Doug Lo , Joey Garcia , dg@root.com, "Anthony C. Chavez" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD guyes References: <14657.893928278@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just a note, my first time experience with WC CD-ROM was excellent, would be great if all my experiences with retail could be so effective. Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Where did you send it? > > > > Taiwan. > > No, I meant which email address you sent it _to_, but no matter - you've > used orders@cdrom.com before I guess. > > > Jordan,In fact, I have sent this email address before, I didn't get any repo > nse > > YET.They reply within 72 hours to custormers ? Well, I doubt it > > The ONLY thing I can do is WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. :-( > > Please, calm down. Getting all upset helps no one to resolve these > issues and only gets in the way. The person who generally reads this > mail was away for a month having a baby and her replacement (who no > longer works here) evidently did not do a very good job of filling in. > She is back now and answering emails, and if you'll be so good as to > submit your complaint one last time to orders@cdrom.com I'm sure > you'll get a response. If you don't, then simply let me know 72 hours > afterwards and I'll personally take it up with her to find out why > things are not being cleared from the support queue. > > Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 06:28:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09549 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 06:28:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misfit.users.xmission.com (misfit.users.xmission.com [207.135.128.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09536 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 06:28:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from misfit@misfit.users.xmission.com) Received: (from misfit@localhost) by misfit.users.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA03884; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:29:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from misfit) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: READ THIS FOR STICKER INFO! (was Re: FreeBSD * slogans*) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) Date: 30 Apr 1998 07:28:57 -0600 In-Reply-To: Nicole's message of "Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:12:21 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: <87af9330bq.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Lines: 33 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nicole writes: > MS - where do you want to go today? > FreeBSD - Been there done that.. Next.. I like this one the best, but I'd have to say that a "plain" bumper sticker with the standard "Powered by FreeBSD" (with the lovely picture of Chuck that we are all familiar with) would look PERFECT on my 4x4 (right next to the "And God said... ... and then there was LIGHT!" sticker). In other words, I'd like the (official?) "Powered by FreeBSD" sticker the best. :-) --- Important part follows --- I recently spoke with a company (Pegasus Publishing, http://www.bab.com/) that prints bumper stickers, and they said that they would be willing to make FreeBSD stickers. I got permission from McKusick (or however you spell his name) to print the exact sticker I mentioned above (Powered by FreeBSD) to make 10 for personal use (not for sale), but was unable to hunt down a suitable graphic on the WWW (or anywhere else). I'm sure getting his permission to print stickers for sale won't be a problem. They need a very high resolution graphic that is fairly large. I have the exact dimensions in another mailbox. If anyone would like me to post them, let me know. PLUG: Go to Pegasus' web page! They have lots of really cool stuff for sale. Cthulhu/Lovecraft, role-playing/fantasy, and all sorts of other memorabilia for the hard-core geek. Not just stickers but t-shirts and other junk. Enjoy. -- Anthony C. Chavez To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 07:56:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20353 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20334 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:56:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-63.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.63]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA29980; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:56:09 GMT Message-ID: <3548863F.F05D37D9@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:10:07 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804292343.SAA01552@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Frank - Been there, flamed that! We all get fried at both MS and Linux, just because of their boorish, snotty attitude (and perhaps a bit because of crappy software!). However, then we -- myself MOST DEFINITELY included -- turn around and do the same thing. We have a shot at the server market, but unless we add to our appeal to the desktop set by improving ppp and printer setup and building our own office suite, we will remain a niche OS. That's why I take Jordan's comments to heart about carefully approaching the Popular Science crowd with inteesting articles, and why I want to make a Dummy's FreeBSD Demo. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 07:56:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20440 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:56:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20419 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:56:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-63.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.63]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA46978; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:56:18 GMT Message-ID: <35488957.B6BA4AAB@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:23:19 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Chris R." CC: Mark Ovens , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD References: <000a01bd740c$1e01b5a0$0400a8c0@speedy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD... We're already there today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 09:01:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29362 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hobbes.crc.com (hobbes.crc.com [192.251.235.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29343 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpb@yeti.hqs.crc.com) Received: from yeti.hqs.crc.com(really [192.146.211.204]) by hobbes.crc.com via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:01:26 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #4 built 1997-Mar-21) Received: from moses.hqs.crc.com (moses.hqs.crc.com [192.146.211.111]) by yeti.hqs.crc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07996; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:02:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dpb@yeti.hqs.crc.com) Message-ID: <004701bd7451$3c025240$6fd392c0@moses.hqs.crc.com> From: "Dan Benjamin" To: , "Frank Pawlak" Cc: Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:01:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Don Wilde > We have a shot at the server market, but unless we add to our appeal to >the desktop set by improving ppp and printer setup and building our own >office suite, we will remain a niche OS. That's why I take Jordan's Are we talking about developing an interface (gui or otherwise) to the existing user-ppp or pppd tools, or something entirely new? RedHat has a semi-intuitive ppp setup GUI which works for most setups using CHAP and PAP checkboxes for options, etc. An example of a very elegant and intuitive ppp setup we could work towards is the BeOS. A dialog box asks for the username, password, and telephone number. It determines server type, PAP or CHAP, etc.- but this would require some real work. -Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 09:29:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03468 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03450 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:28:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-1-80.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.80]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id LAA23405; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:28:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01682; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:28:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804301628.LAA01682@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:28:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3548863F.F05D37D9@ibm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 30 Apr, Don Wilde wrote: > Hi, Frank - > Been there, flamed that! We all get fried at both MS and Linux, just > because of their boorish, snotty attitude (and perhaps a bit because of > crappy software!). However, then we -- myself MOST DEFINITELY included > -- turn around and do the same thing. Hi Don, Yup, sometimes it pays to go out and kick a tree when something sticks in your craw the wrong way. > We have a shot at the server market, but unless we add to our appeal to > the desktop set by improving ppp and printer setup and building our own > office suite, we will remain a niche OS. That's why I take Jordan's > comments to heart about carefully approaching the Popular Science crowd > with inteesting articles, and why I want to make a Dummy's FreeBSD Demo. > --> Don > Agree, these market opportunities are what interests me. Lately there have been some installed base and growth rate numbers disclosed, which provide a base to develop some solid promo projects. I am working on some ideas and hopefully this weekend will have time to get the thoughts in order and toss them out for discession. Remaining a niche OS is the heart of the problem that we face. I remain un-persuaded that following Linux is necessarily the way to go. The work that they are doing to expand the free OS market is good for ua as far as it goes. However, with all the talent in our group, it is my belief that we have something more to offer. We must compose our own tune and say it loud and say it clear to let the computing world know who and what we are. Regards, Frank -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 12:39:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05657 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:39:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05628 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11482 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:39:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <3548D377.F64B24E6@san.rr.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:39:35 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0426 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Slogan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thought of this after I'd already deleted the "microsoft response" slogans: FreeBSD, where do you want to be tomorrow? Or perhaps, FreeBSD, where do you want to BE tomorrow? Of course, Mr. Bill will sue our pointed tails off if we emulate his slogan, especially if we do a better job with it. :) Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 13:18:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12667 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:18:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12657 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:18:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11587; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <3548DC84.DB249E5F@san.rr.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:18:12 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0426 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dwilde1@ibm.netTh CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) References: <17537.893491629@time.cdrom.com> <3541F04D.474FE994@ibm.net> <19980429145242.02565@papillon.lemis.com> <3547F0F1.280A76EA@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don Wilde wrote: > OS/2 tried to be more windows than windows, > and we saw what that got them. It got them a better windows than windows. OS/2's failure is entirely due to the fact that they can't market their way out of a paper bag. As an example, the Windows 3.1 emulation in OS/2 runs more windows applications than Windows 95 does (based on microsoft's own data on apps that do and don't run in Win95). The problems IBM has/had/is having regarding porting a Win32 environment to OS/2 are entirely related to microsoft constantly changing the API so that IBM can't keep up, and introducing subtle changes that they know won't work with OS/2. That was the entire purpose behind the win32s update to 1.30. IBM was successful in porting win32 1.25 so IBM introduced a call in 1.30 that OS/2 can't use (I don't remember the details of what it was, but it was well documented at the time). My point is that technical superiority is never a bad thing. But it won't help you one bit if you don't have the marketing to go with it. That, and the fact that I'd kill for a good windows emulator that runs on FreeBSD. :-/ Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 13:22:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13750 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:22:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eug4ja.lane.edu (eug4ja.lane.edu [158.165.5.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13620 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from CUPPLES_S@4j.lane.edu) Received: from 4j.lane.edu by 4j.lane.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #27890) id <01IWHCU8TC008WZ7MS@4j.lane.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:21:54 PST Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:21:54 -0800 (PST) From: cupples_s@4j.lane.edu Subject: Re: FreeBSD In-reply-to: <35488957.B6BA4AAB@ibm.net> To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD - we were there yesterday Shawn Cupples South Eugene High School (541) 687-3122 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 15:19:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02641 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02629 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@pm02-01.aei.ca [206.123.6.126]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25022; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3548F8CD.1319C08E@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:18:54 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Studded CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: <3548D377.F64B24E6@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Maybe: FreeBSD ~ Veni, Vidi, Vici FreeBSD ~ We where, We are, We will be FreeBSD ~ From Darwin's law ~ Constant Evolution :-) Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 15:44:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05360 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05261 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:43:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA18061; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:43:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:43:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Anthony C. Chavez" cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: READ THIS FOR STICKER INFO! (was Re: FreeBSD * slogans*) In-Reply-To: <87af9330bq.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 30 Apr 1998, Anthony C. Chavez wrote: > Nicole writes: > > > MS - where do you want to go today? > > FreeBSD - Been there done that.. Next.. > > I like this one the best, but I'd have to say that a "plain" bumper sticker > with the standard "Powered by FreeBSD" (with the lovely picture of Chuck that > we are all familiar with) would look PERFECT on my 4x4 (right next to the > "And God said... ... and then there was LIGHT!" sticker). I have that T-shirt. I love it. :) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 16:01:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07541 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:01:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (KR3qrworooQMlfQZyIfV/VoL9Dgd3IEn@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07528 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id RAA29280; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:59:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00565; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:59:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:59:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: Malartre cc: Greg Lehey , dwilde1@ibm.net, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Demo CDs (was: blessing) In-Reply-To: <3547A403.6E80E1A4@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Malartre wrote: [snip] >FreeBSD will never be for normal user who only want a good >MS-Words-like-apps. Win95 do the jobs. Your main target should be: I agree. I believe the appeal should be to corporate IS. >4: *Maybe* WinNT user However, a version prerolled with Samba and billed as "...already a better NT than NT" may get some attention. >*PS: find some student in marketing!!! Use universities* It's hard to appeal to pros by using rookies. -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 16:14:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09394 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (root@jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09217 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul5.u.washington.edu (root@saul5.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.3]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id QAA35750 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:13:52 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id QAA13617 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:12:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: READ THIS FOR STICKER INFO! (was Re: FreeBSD * slogans*) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Did any one else see the all-caps in this header and immediately think it was spam? :) Thank you, | Try some of this. It will show you where you're at. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 16:47:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14927 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.1.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14905 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:46:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdswin0@pop.uky.edu) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.1.174]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14612 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cryogenic.gws.uky.edu ([128.163.16.33]) by pop.uky.edu (8.8.4/(UKY.POP.1.4)) with SMTP id TAA12735 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000c01bd7491$c014a3e0$2110a380@cryogenic.gws.uky.edu> From: "Chris Swinford" Cc: Subject: Re: Slogan Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:43:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, being a student of the Classics, I must interject: If you're going to use Veni, Vidi, Vici, put the verbs in the correct person and number! Maybe 3rd person singular (It came, it saw, etc), or 1st plural (We came, we saw, etc). From: Malartre Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >Maybe: > >FreeBSD ~ Veni, Vidi, Vici To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 17:01:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16696 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (stox.sa.enteract.com [207.229.132.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16644 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:00:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@stox.sa.enteract.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.stox.sa.enteract.com [127.0.0.1]) by m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA00605 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:00:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:00:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since we're brainstorming slogans.... FreeBSD - Free software for a free people! FreeBSD - Free your mind with FreeBSD FreeBSD - Not just and operating system, a whole way of computing To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 17:26:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19823 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:26:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19612 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:25:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm02-01.aei.ca [206.123.6.126]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09919 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35491633.DEDFC67E@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:24:19 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A GUI greyscale interface by default Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was discuting with a friends who is a good hackers on the "Why Win95". The main reason I was saying was: There is no default GUI interface Well, he reply than there was Xfree86. Well, its not default and it take a lot of memory, specially with KDE :-). So I ask him on IRC "Can we do a very *basic* GUI interface, who is implemented in the code of FreeBSD, who use mouse and who is in *greyscale* or *black/white*. Like when you log, FreeBSD ask "load GUI Y/N". Well, he reply: "Unix need it" and: *** K-log has quit IRC (porting W) I have thinked to that when I look around *moused* and when I read about a 1986 (I think) NeXT product: A 21" monitor greyscale with a fuly GUI interface. I think it was sold more than 15 000 $! 10 year after that, Unix have no basic fast GUI interface... Well, maybe other Unix, I dont know cya Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 18:09:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24695 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (stox.sa.enteract.com [207.229.132.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24685 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:09:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@stox.sa.enteract.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.stox.sa.enteract.com [127.0.0.1]) by m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA00703; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:09:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:09:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" To: Chris Swinford cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan In-Reply-To: <000c01bd7491$c014a3e0$2110a380@cryogenic.gws.uky.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Besides, I think the Philip Morris company might object to this slogan. ( For the non-smokers out there, Veni - Vidi - Vici, is part of their corporate logo. ) Given the present political climate, I don't think it would be a wise idea to affiliate ouurselves with the Tobacco industry. On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Chris Swinford wrote: > Well, being a student of the Classics, I must interject: If you're going to > use Veni, Vidi, Vici, put the verbs in the correct person and number! Maybe > 3rd person singular (It came, it saw, etc), or 1st plural (We came, we saw, > etc). > > From: Malartre > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > > > >Maybe: > > > >FreeBSD ~ Veni, Vidi, Vici > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 18:14:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25835 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:14:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25706 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:13:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24442; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Malartre cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:24:19 EDT." <35491633.DEDFC67E@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:13:23 -0700 Message-ID: <24438.893985203@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have thinked to that when I look around *moused* and when I read about > a 1986 (I think) NeXT product: A 21" monitor greyscale with a fuly GUI > interface. I think it was sold more than 15 000 $! > > 10 year after that, Unix have no basic fast GUI interface... > Well, maybe other Unix, I dont know Argh, so DO something about it why don't you! Simply identifying the lack of an easy-to-setup and use GUI interface in Unix is something which people have been doing for years and is such an old topic that it isn't even interesting anymore. What would be far more interesting would be an actual IMPLEMENTATION of an alternative GUI mechanism and an explanation of how it wins over X. So let us know when you've finished your proof-of-concept implementation, OK? :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 18:18:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27150 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27083 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:18:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-46.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.46]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA23014; Fri, 1 May 1998 01:18:04 GMT Message-ID: <354912EB.B0194836@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:10:19 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Benjamin CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <004701bd7451$3c025240$6fd392c0@moses.hqs.crc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Benjamin wrote: > Are we talking about developing an interface (gui or otherwise) to the > existing user-ppp or pppd tools, or something entirely new? > > RedHat has a semi-intuitive ppp setup GUI which works for most setups using > CHAP and PAP checkboxes for options, etc. > An example of a very elegant and intuitive ppp setup we could work towards > is the BeOS. A dialog box asks for the username, password, and telephone > number. It determines server type, PAP or CHAP, etc.- but this would > require some real work. Actually, I was only using those as examples of basic userland things which FreeBSD does very clumsily. I _don't_ want GUI to be a necessity, I would prefer a curses-based front end (at most) like sysinstall. Many of us use FreeBSD for servers and we don't want to have to load X onto the disk at all. Take printers, for example. Admittedly, the bar is now really high because most of us have color inkjets and there are hundreds of variants. What I _want_ is something like apsfilter that doesn't choke if a dependency is not there. For instance, if you don't have a postscript-ready printer, it says, "I hope you've installed ghostscript..." Why doesn't it go out and fetch ghostscript, like our make trees in the rest of the ports tree? Likewise, we need to make a list of the printers which each ghostscript supports, and why you would want one over the other. This should be built into the install script. It then (one at a time, mind you) discovers in succession that you don't have TIFF, XPM, PNG, etc., etc., and dies with each discovery. This is not to say that apsfilter isn't a great start, it's just that it needs to be adapted to fit the fact that the FreeBSD ports tree is right at hand, unlike the other UN*Xes I won't bother naming. Now, I haven't tried the 2.2.6-included version of apsfilter yet, so it's fair to say the author's probably been hard at work like everybody else in freewareland. On ppp, we have a section in the Handbook that deals with server-side ppp. The configs and scripts there deal with testing for both CHAP and PAP. I'm digging into that so I can make a dial-in setup for my server (darn it, kermit isn't in the ports tree any more, gotta fetch it... :| ) at work. It appears that you can actually test the ISP host for either while connecting. It should be a simple matter to save the info in a little file that would then be used to modify the script and config files for the final pass at an installation. Once again, I don't want GUI, unless it is merely a pretty front end to existing scripts. We need to make the scripts exist and be complete _first_ to be true to FreeBSD as it needs to be for those of us who are server admins as well as home users. What we have been discussing on another thread of -advocacy is a bulletproof demo that _is_ made for the home user. My comment was intended to point out that we aren't ready to include printing or ppp in that demo disk, because the ratio of questions to success on -questions is very high on both of those subjects. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 18:19:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27207 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27128 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:18:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-46.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.46]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA98910; Fri, 1 May 1998 01:18:43 GMT Message-ID: <354921B4.29AA2F27@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:13:24 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Studded CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: <3548D377.F64B24E6@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD -- learn to go wherever you want WITHOUT spending money on software! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 18:19:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27217 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27129 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24742; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:18:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:18:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Chris Swinford cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan In-Reply-To: <000c01bd7491$c014a3e0$2110a380@cryogenic.gws.uky.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Chris Swinford wrote: > Well, being a student of the Classics, I must interject: If you're going to > use Veni, Vidi, Vici, put the verbs in the correct person and number! Maybe > 3rd person singular (It came, it saw, etc), or 1st plural (We came, we saw, > etc). ROFL FreeBSD - Amos, amos, amat *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 18:34:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29322 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29279 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-92.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.92]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA43924; Fri, 1 May 1998 01:34:03 GMT Message-ID: <354925D2.7376579D@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:30:58 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default References: <35491633.DEDFC67E@aei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Like /stand/sysinstall? That's called 'curses', I believe. Not by default, though. We don't want it! Telnet from a character-based system/terminal is one of the most powerful FreeBSD features. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 18:49:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01651 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:49:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01638 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:49:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrG-35.aei.ca [206.186.205.85]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21506; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <354929DE.29E778D7@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:48:15 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kenneth P. Stox" CC: Chris Swinford , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hehehe Tobacco industry can take and register a sentence from César? :-) Hahaha, that sucks. Even if its true! Well, trenslate it in english if you want, it was only a proposition. Malartre Kenneth P. Stox wrote: > Besides, I think the Philip Morris company might object to this slogan. > ( For the non-smokers out there, Veni - Vidi - Vici, is part of their > corporate logo. ) > > Given the present political climate, I don't think it would be a wise > idea to affiliate ouurselves with the Tobacco industry. > > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Chris Swinford wrote: > > > Well, being a student of the Classics, I must interject: If you're going to > > use Veni, Vidi, Vici, put the verbs in the correct person and number! Maybe > > 3rd person singular (It came, it saw, etc), or 1st plural (We came, we saw, > > etc). > > > > From: Malartre > > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > > > > > > >Maybe: > > > > > >FreeBSD ~ Veni, Vidi, Vici -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 18:50:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01973 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:50:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01949 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:50:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrG-35.aei.ca [206.186.205.85]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21742; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35492A36.5A7257B6@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:49:42 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default References: <24438.893985203@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I have thinked to that when I look around *moused* and when I read about > > a 1986 (I think) NeXT product: A 21" monitor greyscale with a fuly GUI > > interface. I think it was sold more than 15 000 $! > > > > 10 year after that, Unix have no basic fast GUI interface... > > Well, maybe other Unix, I dont know > > Argh, so DO something about it why don't you! Simply identifying the > lack of an easy-to-setup and use GUI interface in Unix is something > which people have been doing for years and is such an old topic that > it isn't even interesting anymore. What would be far more interesting > would be an actual IMPLEMENTATION of an alternative GUI mechanism > and an explanation of how it wins over X. > > So let us know when you've finished your proof-of-concept > implementation, OK? :-) > > Jordan I will close my mouth, learn C++ and work :-) cya Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 19:21:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06145 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06083; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA26715; Fri, 1 May 1998 11:50:00 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980501114959.A26691@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:49:59 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Frank Pawlak , Yves.holzgen@mba.be Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX References: <354ab626.180130618@mail.cetlink.net> <199804300440.XAA00426@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199804300440.XAA00426@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 11:40:10PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 29 April 1998 at 23:40:10 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > On 29 Apr, John Kelly wrote: >> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:10:58 +0200, "Yves Holzgen" >> wrote: >> >>> We already use LINUX system. What are the main difference between Linux and >>> freeBSD ? >> > > ... > > Linux is a very young clone of SYSV UNIX. It is not really an > operating system, just a kernel. The libs and other components that > make up an operating system come from many developers with out a central > centrol mechanism to ensure the quality of the release. It just the > kernel that is controlled by one person. I don't know if I like making this distinction. Lots of the FreeBSD supporting software is not under the direct control of the core team either (in fact, it's the same software used by Linux). And the term "not an operating system" is misleading. Many people, including myself, consider the kernel to be the operating system, and the rest just to be support. Having said that, it is correct that you can't just go out and get "the latest version of Linux". You have a choice of a large number of different packagings. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 20:03:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12736 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12722 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3g-20.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.69]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13726; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:01:21 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:00:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: Don Wilde cc: Frank Pawlak , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <3548863F.F05D37D9@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: > We have a shot at the server market, but unless we add to our appeal to > the desktop set by improving ppp and printer setup and building our own > office suite, we will remain a niche OS. That's why I take Jordan's > comments to heart about carefully approaching the Popular Science crowd > with inteesting articles, and why I want to make a Dummy's FreeBSD Demo. > --> Don > The server market is a great idea, although it would be a good idea to remind people that FreeBSD is a great workstation as well. Those that see FreeBSD as a "server only" OS might be turned off if all they want is a powerful workstation. I believe we should hit both crowds (server people and workstation people) with equal emphasis, or perhaps just a bit more emphasis on the server side. Do you guys agree? Joey Bear Garcia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 20:14:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13946 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:14:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13909; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02687; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:13:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199805010313.WAA02687@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX In-Reply-To: <19980501114959.A26691@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "May 1, 98 11:49:59 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:13:39 -0500 (EST) Cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, Yves.holzgen@mba.be, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 29 April 1998 at 23:40:10 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > On 29 Apr, John Kelly wrote: > >> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:10:58 +0200, "Yves Holzgen" > >> wrote: > >> > >>> We already use LINUX system. What are the main difference between Linux and > >>> freeBSD ? > >> > > > > ... > > > > Linux is a very young clone of SYSV UNIX. It is not really an > > operating system, just a kernel. The libs and other components that > > make up an operating system come from many developers with out a central > > centrol mechanism to ensure the quality of the release. It just the > > kernel that is controlled by one person. > > I don't know if I like making this distinction. Lots of the FreeBSD > supporting software is not under the direct control of the core team > either (in fact, it's the same software used by Linux). And the term > "not an operating system" is misleading. Many people, including > myself, consider the kernel to be the operating system, and the rest > just to be support. > Actually, all of the software as distributed by FreeBSD is under the FreeBSD's (core, contributors) team control. We do local mods to the various utilities as needed, and create an integrated release. Some of the utility software is encumbered with GPL, but so what? If it was a problem for a major class of users in our user base, we would substitute the offending programs. Linus seems to have very little to do, other than peripheral interest with the various GNU tools. He doesn't release them as part of Linux. (RedHat, Debian, Slackware) do release an OS, where they integrate the pieces. It is a technical distinction, but Linux is handled as if the kernel developers were seperate from the rest, and the name "Linux" doesn't really describe the components in the release. Okay, what version of GCC comes with Linux 2.0.31??? :-). John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 20:18:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14703 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:18:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14697 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3g-20.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.69]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA16304; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:12:45 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:11:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: "Kenneth P. Stox" cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Kenneth P. Stox wrote: > > Since we're brainstorming slogans.... > > FreeBSD - Free software for a free people! > > FreeBSD - Free your mind with FreeBSD > > FreeBSD - Not just and operating system, a whole way of computing Wait, wait...I got one that has never been used before. FreeBSD - A Real OS for Real Users. Okay, so I lied....it has been used before, but it still works. :) Can it be used, legally? Bear > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 20:31:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16237 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16175; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:30:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (xeros-1-55.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.94.55]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.8) id WAA24896; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:30:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00565; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:30:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805010330.WAA00565@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:30:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX To: grog@lemis.com cc: Yves.holzgen@mba.be, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980501114959.A26691@freebie.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1 May, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wed, 29 April 1998 at 23:40:10 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: >> On 29 Apr, John Kelly wrote: >>> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:10:58 +0200, "Yves Holzgen" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> We already use LINUX system. What are the main difference between Linux and >>>> freeBSD ? >>> >> >> ... >> >> Linux is a very young clone of SYSV UNIX. It is not really an >> operating system, just a kernel. The libs and other components that >> make up an operating system come from many developers with out a central >> centrol mechanism to ensure the quality of the release. It just the >> kernel that is controlled by one person. > > I don't know if I like making this distinction. Lots of the FreeBSD > supporting software is not under the direct control of the core team > either (in fact, it's the same software used by Linux). And the term > "not an operating system" is misleading. Many people, including > myself, consider the kernel to be the operating system, and the rest > just to be support. > > Having said that, it is correct that you can't just go out and get > "the latest version of Linux". You have a choice of a large number of > different packagings. > > Greg Hi Greg, I am not an expert on operating systems, and not technically qualified to refute whether or not the Linux kernel is in fact an operating system. However, I believe I have seen posts to the mail lists by persons knowledgeable in these things that say that the Linux kernel is not an OS. At times these issues are very confusing to us that are trying to learn the right things and seperate the bull from the real differentators between FreeBSD and Linux. I am not trying to give you an argument here as much as to get at what really consistutes an OS. In answering the question as I did, I was trying to provide some information to persons that were switching from Linux to FreeBSD and asking for information on the differences between them, and quite frankly were given bullshit for an answer. Those differences have to have more substance than what works best for you oe some such. People moving from one OS to another need and deserve substantial information on which to base those desisions. If it is the case that the only difference is what works best for you, then you could put Linux and FreeBSD in a bag, shake it and grab one and have the best OS. At that point everything else is just hacker flame wars and bombast. I truly hope that is not the case. Best wishes, Frank At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 20:51:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20551 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:51:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20520 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA27146; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:20:14 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980501132014.N26691@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:20:14 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Malartre , "Kenneth P. Stox" Cc: Chris Swinford , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: <354929DE.29E778D7@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <354929DE.29E778D7@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 09:48:15PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 30 April 1998 at 21:48:15 -0400, Malartre wrote: > Hehehe > Tobacco industry can take and register a sentence from César? :-) > > Hahaha, that sucks. What do you expect to do with cigarettes? > Well, trenslate it in english if you want, it was only a proposition. If you want to use it at all, it's for the effect. "Venimus, vidimus, vicimus" just doesn't have the same ring about it. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 20:57:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21461 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:57:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21439; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:57:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA27196; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:27:24 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980501132724.P26691@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:27:24 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Frank Pawlak Cc: Yves.holzgen@mba.be, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX References: <19980501114959.A26691@freebie.lemis.com> <199805010330.WAA00565@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199805010330.WAA00565@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 10:30:41PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 30 April 1998 at 22:30:41 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > On 1 May, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Wed, 29 April 1998 at 23:40:10 -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: >>> On 29 Apr, John Kelly wrote: >>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:10:58 +0200, "Yves Holzgen" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We already use LINUX system. What are the main difference between Linux and >>>>> freeBSD ? >>>> >>> >>> ... >>> >>> Linux is a very young clone of SYSV UNIX. It is not really an >>> operating system, just a kernel. The libs and other components that >>> make up an operating system come from many developers with out a central >>> centrol mechanism to ensure the quality of the release. It just the >>> kernel that is controlled by one person. >> >> I don't know if I like making this distinction. Lots of the FreeBSD >> supporting software is not under the direct control of the core team >> either (in fact, it's the same software used by Linux). And the term >> "not an operating system" is misleading. Many people, including >> myself, consider the kernel to be the operating system, and the rest >> just to be support. >> >> Having said that, it is correct that you can't just go out and get >> "the latest version of Linux". You have a choice of a large number of >> different packagings. > > I am not an expert on operating systems, and not technically qualified > to refute whether or not the Linux kernel is in fact an operating > system. However, I believe I have seen posts to the mail lists by > persons knowledgeable in these things that say that the Linux kernel is > not an OS. Sure, I understand. Read what I said: I don't like making this distinction. It doesn't mean it's not valid, but I don't think it's useful. I certainly wasn't picking on you: many people (including John Dyson, for example) agree with you. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 21:22:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23864 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23853 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:22:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsdnet@juno.com) Received: (from bsdnet@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id AYI04063; Fri, 01 May 1998 00:21:17 EDT To: Studded@san.rr.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:11:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Slogan Message-ID: <19980501.002335.11678.0.BSDNet@juno.com> References: <3548D377.F64B24E6@san.rr.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9 From: bsdnet@juno.com (Micah S Mayo) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thought of this after I'd already deleted the "microsoft response" slogans: FreeBSD, where do you want to be tomorrow? Or perhaps, FreeBSD, where do you want to BE tomorrow? cute. I always liked "FreeBSD: Free to BSD" _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 21:22:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23888 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:22:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23865 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3g-20.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.69]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00860; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:20:15 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:19:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: Don Wilde cc: Malartre , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-Reply-To: <354925D2.7376579D@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terminal based applications are powerful because of their simplicity and minimal resorce consumption, but there are a number of great curses based tools out there. There's Midnight Commander (mc - sort of like a shell based file manager thingy), ncftp, pico, ee, and other stuff. MC even lets you use the mouse too! I don't mind nifty graphical terminal based programs. At least they don't comsume as much memory as running X and it's various applications. Joey On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Don Wilde wrote: > Like /stand/sysinstall? That's called 'curses', I believe. Not by > default, though. We don't want it! Telnet from a character-based > system/terminal is one of the most powerful FreeBSD features. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 22:36:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00946 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:36:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00929 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:36:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-102.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.102]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA78996; Fri, 1 May 1998 05:35:58 GMT Message-ID: <35494D17.446AF8E0@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:18:31 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default References: <35491633.DEDFC67E@aei.ca> <354925D2.7376579D@ibm.net> <35493E37.C1753412@aei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 'curses' is the C library that makes the semi-GUI that is /stand/sysinstall. From what I remember hearing, it makes it really easy. You're not the only one who needs to shut up and study and get some product out :))) I do too. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 22:36:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00966 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:36:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00936 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:36:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-102.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.102]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06092; Fri, 1 May 1998 05:36:03 GMT Message-ID: <35494DA1.8C7206D1@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:20:49 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes, that's why I want the demo and the easier print setup and ppp!!!! resolved: I'm going to do less yakking and more studying. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 23:17:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06398 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:17:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06393 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25588; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Kenneth P. Stox" cc: Chris Swinford , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:09:39 CDT." Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:16:31 -0700 Message-ID: <25585.894003391@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Besides, I think the Philip Morris company might object to this slogan. > ( For the non-smokers out there, Veni - Vidi - Vici, is part of their > corporate logo. ) How about "Veni - Vidi - Coiti" then? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 23:24:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA07309 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07295 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:24:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA27672; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:54:17 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980501155416.A27630@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:54:16 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Kenneth P. Stox" Cc: Chris Swinford , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: <25585.894003391@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <25585.894003391@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 11:16:31PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 30 April 1998 at 23:16:31 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Besides, I think the Philip Morris company might object to this slogan. >> ( For the non-smokers out there, Veni - Vidi - Vici, is part of their >> corporate logo. ) > > How about "Veni - Vidi - Coiti" then? You always get things round the wrong way. Vidi - Coiti - Veni Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 30 23:30:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08133 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:30:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08112 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:30:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25690; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:30:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: Dan Benjamin , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:10:19 PDT." <354912EB.B0194836@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:30:00 -0700 Message-ID: <25683.894004200@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > of variants. What I _want_ is something like apsfilter that doesn't > choke if a dependency is not there. For instance, if you don't have a > postscript-ready printer, it says, "I hope you've installed > ghostscript..." Why doesn't it go out and fetch ghostscript, like our > make trees in the rest of the ports tree? Likewise, we need to make a I guess nobody paid much attention to my little "install-stubs" target proposal for /usr/ports, experimental and proof-of-conceptish though they were. :) It's one way of dealing with the problem and meant more as a gedanken experiment than anything else - I'd like folks to start really thinking seriously about application transparancy and what it takes to get there. :) ftp://time.cdrom.com/pub/port-stub.shar Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 00:04:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11529 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 00:04:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11523 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 00:04:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25899; Fri, 1 May 1998 00:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey cc: "Kenneth P. Stox" , Chris Swinford , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 May 1998 15:54:16 +0930." <19980501155416.A27630@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 00:02:18 -0700 Message-ID: <25896.894006138@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > How about "Veni - Vidi - Coiti" then? > > You always get things round the wrong way. > > Vidi - Coiti - Veni ROTFL. And people say that Australians have an undeserved reputation with spokesmen like Greg around. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 02:25:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA22541 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 02:25:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA22526; Fri, 1 May 1998 02:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA01228; Fri, 1 May 1998 05:25:43 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Frank Pawlak Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 09:28:13 GMT Message-ID: <354b8c8c.300570838@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199805010330.WAA00565@darkstar.connect.com> In-Reply-To: <199805010330.WAA00565@darkstar.connect.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA22532 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:30:41 -0500 (CDT), Frank Pawlak wrote: >In answering the question as I did, I was trying to provide some >information to persons that were switching from Linux to FreeBSD and >asking for information on the differences between them, and quite >frankly were given bullshit for an answer. I don't think so. Take of poll of all ISP's running either of the two, and I think you'll find that the vast majority prefer FreeBSD instead of Linux. My statement stands. "Amateurs like Linux, but professionals prefer FreeBSD." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 07:06:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18151 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 07:06:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18070 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 07:05:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-251.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.251]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA22440; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:05:34 GMT Message-ID: <3549CFB0.53BCC628@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 06:35:44 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia CC: Malartre , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sh*t, I even _use_ GUI's myself (sometimes). I just don't want to get STUCK with using them to accomplish things. That's all. We aleady have /stand/sysinstall, it would be really good to extend that to include printers and ISP-connect ppp (as opposed to network link). For anything else, let the GUI gather user info, then feed a script (or compiled program, whichever) with it. That way all of us are happy! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 07:07:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18367 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 07:07:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18319 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 07:07:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-251.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.251]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA15500; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:05:56 GMT Message-ID: <3549D55C.E18F6651@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 06:59:56 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Greg Lehey , "Kenneth P. Stox" , Chris Swinford , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: <25896.894006138@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG beer cans are not the only thing they think is bigger over there... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 07:58:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24767 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 07:58:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thor.inlink.com (thor.inlink.com [206.196.96.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24758 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 07:58:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: from sparc.midwestis.com (sparc.midwestis.com [206.196.126.220]) by thor.inlink.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05700 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 09:58:41 -0500 Received: from rseals.midwestis.com ([209.135.156.243] (may be forged)) by sparc.midwestis.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04537 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 09:58:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 1 May 1998 09:59:19 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD74E7.CEADB580.rayseals@midwestis.com> From: Ray Seals Reply-To: "rayseals@midwestis.com" To: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: Slogan Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:59:17 -0500 Organization: Midwest Information Systems X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Some ideas on a slogan: Implementing is more important than budgeting. When power is more important than price. Just a thought ---------------------------------------------------------------- Midwest Information Systems http://www.midwestis.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ray Seals Network Engineer rayseals@midwestis.com Direct Dial: 314.663.3987 Office: 314.298.0873 Fax: 314.298.8482 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Providing clear vision to the future" ---------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 08:42:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01010 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 08:42:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from novell.com (prv-mail20.Provo.Novell.COM [137.65.40.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA01000 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 08:42:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drdavis@xmission.com) Received: from xmission.com ([137.65.137.188]) by prv-mail20.provo.novell.com; Fri, 01 May 1998 09:42:05 -0600 Message-ID: <3549ECE1.576737DF@xmission.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 09:40:18 -0600 From: DRDavis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre CC: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default References: <24438.893985203@time.cdrom.com> <35492A36.5A7257B6@aei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I agree with Jordon. In the many years I have worked with Unix this has just become another religous war to divide Unix. Rember the debate of SunView/NeWS/X windows. And then the famous quote by Steve Jobs that "X was Braindead". I have been following the threads on FreeBSD as a Workstation, now is the time for us to free our minds and move into the future. My belief is if you want to do that Java is the story (Yes, OK maybe I have been listening to Eric Schmidt to much, hell he is the CEO anyways). Why doesn't someone take FreeBSD build that damn fastest implementation of Java VM/JIT into the OS. And go Java! Rewrite the GUI in a standard mechanism through Java (MAKE IT CONSISTANT). Novell is doing this with NetWare 5! Yes, we currently just ported an X server, but the API we expose it through Java so someday we can throw it away and do something better! If you want a client workstation story Java is the key. My 2.5 cents worth. Darren Malartre wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > I have thinked to that when I look around *moused* and when I read about > > > a 1986 (I think) NeXT product: A 21" monitor greyscale with a fuly GUI > > > interface. I think it was sold more than 15 000 $! > > > > > > 10 year after that, Unix have no basic fast GUI interface... > > > Well, maybe other Unix, I dont know > > > > Argh, so DO something about it why don't you! Simply identifying the > > lack of an easy-to-setup and use GUI interface in Unix is something > > which people have been doing for years and is such an old topic that > > it isn't even interesting anymore. What would be far more interesting > > would be an actual IMPLEMENTATION of an alternative GUI mechanism > > and an explanation of how it wins over X. > > > > So let us know when you've finished your proof-of-concept > > implementation, OK? :-) > > > > Jordan > > I will close my mouth, learn C++ and work :-) > cya > Malartre > > -- > -------------------------------------------------- > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project > Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 > -------------------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 08:52:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02478 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 08:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boober.lineone.net (boober-be.lineone.net [194.75.152.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02410 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 08:52:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurab@lineone.net) Received: from speedy (host5-99-49-146.btinternet.com [195.99.49.146]) by boober.lineone.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id QAA08249; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:51:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <00ae01bd7519$355902e0$923163c3@speedy> Reply-To: "Chris R." From: "Chris R." To: Cc: "Don Wilde" Subject: Mouse Mats Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:52:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ok heres the current situation: - I have found a local printer who can run off full colour (any mixtures) mouse mats with our chosen design. There is no start up cost, the mats are the rubber / fabric combo discussed and the minimum order is 100. The price I was quoted is Ģ2.60 per mat to produce (thats two pounds sterling - i.e. UK) which is roughly four dollars thirty cents US ........ I think :-) Anyway - I will go and see the mats first hand to check suitability, but otherwise is that ok? The price to buy will be calculated finally so as to cover all costs and perhaps to boost the coffers of FreeBSD. Questions 1. Is the price acceptable? 2. Do we have a mat design yet - or would an improved version of the one at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~gurab/FreeBSD/index.htm be acceptable? There have been a lot of good slogans touted of late - perhaps one of these to be incorporated? 3. How will it be distributed - bulk mail to various countries for onward shipping, or piecemeal (higher cost) 4. Is the idea of upping the price to help FreeBSD acceptable, and if so to what amount? 5. Any comments / suggestions? rgds C. Raven To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 09:55:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11119 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 09:55:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11105 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 09:55:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA22230 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 12:54:49 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BD74E7.CEADB580.rayseals@midwestis.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:58:11 -0400 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Slogan Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:59 AM -0500 5/1/98, Ray Seals wrote: >Some ideas on a slogan: > > Implementing is more important than budgeting. > > When power is more important than price. Plausible, although it implies that FreeBSD is pricey or that it would break your budget. :-) In thinking why I prefer options like freebsd or linux, I'd think the key is the open-source policy. If there is a bug I need to fix for my company, I can just do it, or contract out to have someone fix it. If there's a bug in WindowsXX, I have to beg Microsoft to fix it, and my bug (or requested feature) will be priority 100 on a long list of things that millions of people are asking Microsoft for. I'm not quite sure how to shrink that into a 10-second catchy slogan. I'm inclined towards ads like the suburu one. Something like "You paid a whole lot more for that operating system, but at least your priorities will be insignificant to the company you bought it from". I can just imagine Microsoft decending on us with about 8,000 lawyers over that one... Perhaps "When you have the source, you get to set your own priorities for what gets done next". --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 10:04:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12570 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 10:04:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pollux.loco.net (lucy.bedford.net [206.99.145.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12521; Fri, 1 May 1998 10:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listread@bedford.net) Received: (from listread@localhost) by pollux.loco.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27382; Fri, 1 May 1998 12:58:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from listread) Message-Id: <199805011658.MAA27382@pollux.loco.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX In-Reply-To: <354b8c8c.300570838@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "May 1, 98 09:28:13 am" To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: CyberPeasant Reply-To: djv@bedford.net X-no-archive: yes X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:30:41 -0500 (CDT), Frank Pawlak > wrote: > > >In answering the question as I did, I was trying to provide some > >information to persons that were switching from Linux to FreeBSD and > >asking for information on the differences between them, and quite > >frankly were given bullshit for an answer. > > I don't think so. Take of poll of all ISP's running either of the > two, and I think you'll find that the vast majority prefer FreeBSD > instead of Linux. My statement stands. "Amateurs like Linux, but > professionals prefer FreeBSD." > I think it should be added, there's nothing wrong about being an amateur. The two groups have different needs. After a career starting with punch cards and paper tape, I'm really happy about being an amateur again. The variety of Unix flavors available for a song is a real delight! However, after a foray into Linux, I find myself more comfortable in BSD. The differences are slight (gcc is gcc, X is X, BIND is BIND, etc etc). But it is true, a professional programmer or admin is /used/ to a certain environment, and that environment tends to resemble BSD. Mostly it is my impression that the 3 BSD's offer solid kernels, and more complete utilities, with fewer glitches. (NFS, rsh, rlogin, etc come to mind here), and a greater impression of being a "unified whole" instead of a patchwork. Linux lacks or has bugs in some system calls. (mmap(), fcntl(), vfork(),...maybe my info here is obsolete). Linux has growing pains, but maybe BSD is senile...BSD source traces back to the ancient papyri and tablets. Some Linux ports are, frankly, sloppy. (timed, rsh). Some of Linux networking code has design problems. (visible in the wretched performance of Linux as an NFS server or client -- maybe this has changed, though.). BSD is also easier to configure, but that is my opinion about what is easy. Linux offers a lot of flash, and really tracks new hardware,bugs,exploits faster... but with this speed of development come speedbumps. Linux = Ferrari, BSD=Mercedes-Benz, (OpenBSD comes with bulletproof tinted glass, FreeBSD with the high performance diesel engine, NetBSD with the ability to run on any road you come across), NT='72 Yugo that's having trouble passing safety inspection (no brakes, lights or wipers, and burns a lot of oil), W95=tricycle with bent front wheel and one pedal. I really think it comes down to analogies like this, until a specific feature is singled out for discussion. I have a vague impression that Linux spends a lot of time "in the shop" -- lots of tweaking. The BSD machines just sit here, and run. Disks are cheap enough and boot loaders clever enough, that it is reasonable to suggest to a prospective adapter of Unix, to install nearly identical Linux and BSD systems, and judge for himself in the actual application areas he needs. (this, gentlefolk, is /luxury/.) One thing not mentioned (I think) in favor of the newbie chosing a BSD, is that textbooks going back a long time use examples from BSD. Dave -- <----. mailto/pgpfinger: djv@bedford.net <----|=================================== <----' Crathva fxrjre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 11:46:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29501 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 11:46:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29421 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 11:45:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07116 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 12:44:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:44:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux ahead again??? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Man, they're ahead of us again. Linux is going to be used on the first internet-aware refrigerator! Why aren't we pushing for this market? :-) Sorry - this is completely useless, but I thought it was funny and it's Friday so ... http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/articles/98043009.html ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 13:31:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16167 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:31:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16117 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11275; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:31:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id PAA21727; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:30:33 -0500 Message-ID: <19980501153033.10217@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:30:33 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Brett Taylor Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux ahead again??? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Brett Taylor on May 05, 1998 at 12:44:54PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 05, 1998 at 12:44:54PM -0600, Brett Taylor wrote: > Man, they're ahead of us again. Linux is going to be used on the first > internet-aware refrigerator! Why aren't we pushing for this market? :-) > > Sorry - this is completely useless, but I thought it was funny and it's > Friday so ... > > http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/articles/98043009.html *snx* Will there be an option to put the PC in the freezer section for those diehard overclockers? -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 13:47:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19195 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:47:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rembrandt.esys.ca (rembrandt.esys.ca [198.161.92.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19182 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Steven.VanderMeulen@esys.ca) Received: from steven.pc.esys.ca (steven.pc.esys.ca [198.161.92.55]) by rembrandt.esys.ca (2.0.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA09826; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:47:30 -0600 From: "Steven.VanderMeulen" Reply-To: Steven.VanderMeulen@esys.ca To: "rayseals@midwestis.com" Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Slogan In-Reply-To: <01BD74E7.CEADB580.rayseals@midwestis.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:47:16 -0600 (mdt) X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.5 Build (43) X-Authentication: IMSP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 1 May 1998 09:59:17 -0500 Ray Seals wrote: > Some ideas on a slogan: > > Implementing is more important than budgeting. > > When power is more important than price. > > Just a thought What about something to the effect of: "Would Your Rather Pay For The Best? The Choice Is Yours!" "Quality Is Free With BSD" "FreeBSD - Premium is in the product, not the price!" Thoughts ? Steve. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Midwest Information Systems > > http://www.midwestis.com > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Ray Seals > Network Engineer > rayseals@midwestis.com > Direct Dial: 314.663.3987 > Office: 314.298.0873 > Fax: 314.298.8482 > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > "Providing clear vision to the future" > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message ----------------------------------------------------- Steven VanderMeulen B.Comm Marketing Analys The Esys Corporation (http://www.simeon.com) Steven.VanderMeulen@esys.ca Ph: (403)424-4922 ext:316 Fax: (403)424-4925 ----------------------------------------------------- S I M E O N: * Simplicity * Strength * Security To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 14:01:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21481 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:01:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thor.inlink.com (thor.inlink.com [206.196.96.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21455 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:00:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: from sparc.midwestis.com (sparc.midwestis.com [206.196.126.220]) by thor.inlink.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07806; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:00:54 -0500 Received: from rseals.midwestis.com ([209.135.156.243] (may be forged)) by sparc.midwestis.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05949; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:00:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:01:34 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD751A.69EA3C80.rayseals@midwestis.com> From: Ray Seals Reply-To: "rayseals@midwestis.com" To: "'Garance A Drosihn'" , "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Slogan Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:32:09 -0500 Organization: Midwest Information Systems X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK, how about: The only wizard is the one behind the keyboard. I just setup 3 NT servers. I mentioned to the VP of IS (he sat with me to "learn" how to setup an NT server) that if a server OS needs to have wizards for simple admin. tasks, then you need new administrators. -----Original Message----- From: Garance A Drosihn [SMTP:drosih@rpi.edu] Sent: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:58 AM To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan At 9:59 AM -0500 5/1/98, Ray Seals wrote: >Some ideas on a slogan: > > Implementing is more important than budgeting. > > When power is more important than price. Plausible, although it implies that FreeBSD is pricey or that it would break your budget. :-) In thinking why I prefer options like freebsd or linux, I'd think the key is the open-source policy. If there is a bug I need to fix for my company, I can just do it, or contract out to have someone fix it. If there's a bug in WindowsXX, I have to beg Microsoft to fix it, and my bug (or requested feature) will be priority 100 on a long list of things that millions of people are asking Microsoft for. I'm not quite sure how to shrink that into a 10-second catchy slogan. I'm inclined towards ads like the suburu one. Something like "You paid a whole lot more for that operating system, but at least your priorities will be insignificant to the company you bought it from". I can just imagine Microsoft decending on us with about 8,000 lawyers over that one... Perhaps "When you have the source, you get to set your own priorities for what gets done next". --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 14:01:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21539 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:01:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thor.inlink.com (thor.inlink.com [206.196.96.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21445 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 14:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: from sparc.midwestis.com (sparc.midwestis.com [206.196.126.220]) by thor.inlink.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07781; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:00:49 -0500 Received: from rseals.midwestis.com ([209.135.156.243] (may be forged)) by sparc.midwestis.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05945; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:00:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 1 May 1998 16:01:27 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD751A.65E444A0.rayseals@midwestis.com> From: Ray Seals Reply-To: "rayseals@midwestis.com" To: "'Steven.VanderMeulen@esys.ca'" Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: Slogan Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:01:26 -0500 Organization: Midwest Information Systems X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "FreeBSD - Premium is in the product, not the price!" I like that one! Ray To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 15:06:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01702 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eug4ja.lane.edu (eug4ja.lane.edu [158.165.5.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01694 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from CUPPLES_S@4j.lane.edu) Received: from 4j.lane.edu by 4j.lane.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #27890) id <01IWIURHE7408WZEMA@4j.lane.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:05:52 PST Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 15:05:51 -0800 (PST) From: cupples_s@4j.lane.edu Subject: DSBerrF To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why not steal from big blue... FreeBSD-Solutions for a large planet or market it as a beer DSBerrF Shawn Cupples South Eugene High School (541) 687-3122 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 15:22:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04552 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from the.oneinsane.net (insane@gw.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04537 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:22:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@oneinsane.net) Received: (from insane@localhost) Message-ID: <19980501152212.16500@the.oneinsane.net> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:22:12 -0700 From: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: <01BD751A.65E444A0.rayseals@midwestis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e In-Reply-To: <01BD751A.65E444A0.rayseals@midwestis.com>; from Ray Seals on Fri, May 01, 1998 at 04:01:26PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD the.oneinsane.net 2.2.6-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 04:01:26PM -0500, Ray Seals wrote: > "FreeBSD - Premium is in the product, not the price!" > > I like that one! > > Ray > I have to agree with Ray. ;-) Ron -- -------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void -------------------------------------------------------- It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 17:07:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23195 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:07:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23129 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:07:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA03748; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:37:17 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980502093716.J3572@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:37:16 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: dwilde1@ibm.net, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Kenneth P. Stox" , Chris Swinford , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: <25896.894006138@time.cdrom.com> <3549D55C.E18F6651@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3549D55C.E18F6651@ibm.net>; from Don Wilde on Fri, May 01, 1998 at 06:59:56AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 1 May 1998 at 6:59:56 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > beer cans are not the only thing they think is bigger over there... Sorry, what was the context? I think export beer cans are bigger than the ones we use here. Anyway, we're in a wine-growing area here. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 17:22:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25285 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25217; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA09560; Fri, 1 May 1998 20:22:30 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: djv@bedford.net Cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 00:24:35 GMT Message-ID: <354a6373.45359939@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199805011658.MAA27382@pollux.loco.net> In-Reply-To: <199805011658.MAA27382@pollux.loco.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA25222 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 1 May 1998 12:58:59 -0400 (EDT), CyberPeasant wrote: >> Take of poll of all ISP's running either of the two, and I think >> you'll find that the vast majority prefer FreeBSD instead of Linux. >> My statement stands. "Amateurs like Linux, but professionals prefer >> FreeBSD." >I think it should be added, there's nothing wrong about being an >amateur. Right. I was not intending to denigrate amateurs or Linux. I started with Linux but moved on to FreeBSD when I realized Linux performed poorly when heavily loaded with concurrent disk, network, and serial I/O. Linux is a good as a UNIX learning tool and a place for newbies to start. If they cut their teeth on Linux, we won't be inundated by a horde of newbies who know next to nothing about UNIX. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 17:33:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26708 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26680; Fri, 1 May 1998 17:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA10357; Fri, 1 May 1998 20:33:38 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: "Frank Pawlak" Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 00:35:43 GMT Message-ID: <354b67ef.46508662@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199805010330.WAA00565@darkstar.connect.com> <354b8c8c.300570838@mail.cetlink.net> <199805011525110705.013F5CB3@mailgate.execpc.com> In-Reply-To: <199805011525110705.013F5CB3@mailgate.execpc.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA26684 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 01 May 1998 15:25:11 -0500, "Frank Pawlak" wrote: > I would like to ask a favor of you. I am in some sense involved > in the promotion of FreeBSD. As part of that effort documented > reasons why FreeBSD is a solid OS as compared to any other, not just > Linux is needed. I am asking you to join us in our efforts as > volunteers to promote FreeBSD and position it as a profession OS. I encourage your efforts but I don't want to join -- I'm apathetic as to whether FreeBSD is advocated or not. As long as FreeBSD has open source code and attracts developers who can read and write good code, I believe that in itself will sustain FreeBSD to the extent which is useful for my purposes. If FreeBSD grows to the extent of Linux due to active promotion and advocacy, fine. But others besides me will have to take that ball and run with it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 18:00:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00279 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00267; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA20374; Fri, 1 May 1998 20:00:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:00:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: John Kelly cc: Frank Pawlak , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX In-Reply-To: <354b8c8c.300570838@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 1 May 1998, John Kelly wrote: > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:30:41 -0500 (CDT), Frank Pawlak > wrote: > > >In answering the question as I did, I was trying to provide some > >information to persons that were switching from Linux to FreeBSD and > >asking for information on the differences between them, and quite > >frankly were given bullshit for an answer. > > I don't think so. Take of poll of all ISP's running either of the > two, and I think you'll find that the vast majority prefer FreeBSD > instead of Linux. My statement stands. "Amateurs like Linux, but > professionals prefer FreeBSD." I, as I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing, have a page where I've compounded some of the more intelligent responses to this sort of question. Still failing in my eternal promise to make it pretty, and I was able to get exactly ZERO feedback from the various Linux hordes, but it's at: http://www.futuresouth.com/~fullermd/freebsd/bsdvlin.html One response I got from someone who saw the site I think sums it up even better than the 'Amateurs/Professionals' statement. It went something like thus: FreeBSD is a BSD UNIX that happens to run on x86 hardware. Linux is a x86 OS that happens to be vaguely POSIX-ish. Another that I saw somewhere was: FreeBSD looks like a bunch of BSD hackers got together and decided to write a PC OS. Linux looks like a bunch of DOS hackers got together and decided to write a PC UNIX, without ever having seen a real UNIX. My $0.02 and 2k of bandwidth for today. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 18:14:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02294 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02288 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA00375; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:44:13 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980502104413.B318@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:44:13 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Chris R." , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Don Wilde Subject: Re: Mouse Mats References: <00ae01bd7519$355902e0$923163c3@speedy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <00ae01bd7519$355902e0$923163c3@speedy>; from Chris R. on Fri, May 01, 1998 at 04:52:54PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 1 May 1998 at 16:52:54 +0100, Chris R. wrote: > ok heres the current situation: - > > I have found a local printer who can run off full colour (any > mixtures) mouse mats with our chosen design. > There is no start up cost, the mats are the rubber / fabric combo > discussed and the minimum order is 100. > > The price I was quoted is Ģ2.60 per mat to produce (thats two pounds > sterling - i.e. UK) which is roughly four dollars thirty cents US > ........ I think :-) Does that include VAT? > Anyway - I will go and see the mats first hand to check suitability, > but otherwise is that ok? The price to buy will be calculated finally > so as to cover all costs and perhaps to boost the coffers of FreeBSD. > > Questions > > 1. Is the price acceptable? I wouldn't think so. I'd guess that a good price would be in the order of $0.50 to $1 US per mat in quantity. This is a guess; does anybody else have any ideas? Certainly we can't use these things as free giveaways at your quoted price. > 2. Do we have a mat design yet - or would an improved version of the > one at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~gurab/FreeBSD/index.htm be > acceptable? > > There have been a lot of good slogans touted of late - perhaps one of > these to be incorporated? I would suggest that we don't put a slogan on the mat until a vast majority is agreed. That even goes for the official slogan ("the power to serve"), which doesn't seem appropriate on a mouse pad. > 4. Is the idea of upping the price to help FreeBSD acceptable, and if > so to what amount? Theoretically, I suppose so, but I don't see anybody buying even at the price you have been quoted, and the costs don't stop there. Sorry if I seem so negative, but I'm sure that we can get a better deal. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 18:56:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08966 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08862 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:56:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-210.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.210]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA38030; Sat, 2 May 1998 01:56:10 GMT Message-ID: <354A7B28.66151330@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:47:20 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Taylor CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux ahead again??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Linux Refrigerators... for those days until Hell, Norway freezes over!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 18:56:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09006 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08940 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-210.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.210]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA21438; Sat, 2 May 1998 01:56:14 GMT Message-ID: <354A7B97.6EB88FFF@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:49:11 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Chris R." CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mouse Mats References: <00ae01bd7519$355902e0$923163c3@speedy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG That seems expensive, I think you're being taken. 100 would not be a good minimum, 1000 will cost very little more. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 18:57:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09176 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08979 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:56:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-210.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.210]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA104216; Sat, 2 May 1998 01:56:26 GMT Message-ID: <354A7C52.1C831087@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:52:18 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rayseals@midwestis.com" CC: "'Garance A Drosihn'" , "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Slogan References: <01BD751A.69EA3C80.rayseals@midwestis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ray Seals wrote: > > OK, how about: > > The only wizard is the one behind the keyboard. > I like that one! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 19:00:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09938 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:00:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09900 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01088; Fri, 1 May 1998 18:59:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 May 1998 15:22:12 PDT." <19980501152212.16500@the.oneinsane.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:59:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1084.894074385@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Or shorter: "FreeBSD - Premium product, not price!" > On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 04:01:26PM -0500, Ray Seals wrote: > > "FreeBSD - Premium is in the product, not the price!" > > > > I like that one! > > > > Ray > > > I have to agree with Ray. ;-) > > Ron > -- > -------------------------------------------------------- > Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... > The InSaNe One rm -rf * > insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void > -------------------------------------------------------- > It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 19:32:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14908 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (root@jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14903 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:32:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul1.u.washington.edu (root@saul1.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.10]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id TAA12454; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:32:29 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id TAA06516; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:31:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: CyberPeasant cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Best description of BSDs award goes to => In-Reply-To: <199805011658.MAA27382@pollux.loco.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 1 May 1998, CyberPeasant wrote: >come speedbumps. Linux = Ferrari, BSD=Mercedes-Benz, (OpenBSD >comes with bulletproof tinted glass, FreeBSD with the high performance >diesel engine, NetBSD with the ability to run on any road you come >across), NT='72 Yugo that's having trouble passing safety inspection >(no brakes, lights or wipers, and burns a lot of oil), W95=tricycle >with bent front wheel and one pedal. I really think it comes down Thank you, | Try some of this. It will show you where you're at. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 19:54:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18843 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (root@jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18837 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:54:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul1.u.washington.edu (root@saul1.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.10]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id TAA22028; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:54:45 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id TAA11214; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:53:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: John Kelly cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Newbies and advocacy Was: FreeBSD vs YouKnowWho In-Reply-To: <354a6373.45359939@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 2 May 1998, John Kelly wrote: >Linux is a good as a UNIX learning tool and a place for newbies to >start. If they cut their teeth on Linux, we won't be inundated by a >horde of newbies who know next to nothing about UNIX. Just about two years ago I was one of those newbies. After learning 'ls' on the school account, I downloaded FreeBSD. That is just how fresh I was. Man that is kind of funny. All I knew was 'ls'' one day. The next day I was a "sysadmin" (sic). I do not intend to denigrate your position. We should be cheering to be inundated with newbies. I would just like you to realize that part of the reason I am a supporter of free software and FreeBSD is because of the help I have received from the community when I was a newbie. If someone gave me an attitude like "RTFM, or I am to busy to help because I am inundated with newbies." I would have felt unwelcome. Instead, I got an answer, "You really should use vipw to change your default shell. OBTW, read 'man vipw'" The difference to a newbie in these two approaches is IMMENSE. (Mind you I am not inredibly supportive of the person who says "FreeBSD sucks. It wiped out everything..... I get these types at work too.) It did not take me long to realize that I was more correct in calling FreeBSD a community that an OS. This is something that MS absolutely cannot offer. It is something that FreeBSD should continue to capitalize on. (You can also visit Mr. Lehey's web page for another testimonial as to why I like FreeBSD.) -Doug White has helped me numerous times. -Greg Lehey has helped me numerous times. Greg even had to take me down a notch one time when I got a bit "cheeky" on a reply I made that included one of his answers. I ended up apologizing. -Jordan Hubbard has helped me. He also also put up with a couple extraneous send-prs from me. His patience is extraordinary. -David Greenman has been supportive as well. -Countless others. All of these guys are super-stars. They all had time to help _me_. I know that the time these gentleman have spent helping me along has distrated them from more important things. This is precisely one of the reasons that I am a supporter of FreeBSD. You cannot _buy_ a better vehicle for advocacy then supporting newbies patiently. The best way to help advocate FreeBSD that anyone can do is to get on -questions and provide a "community" with which newbies can associate. They will appreciate _us_ for it. We will win their support in return. Thank you, | Try some of this. It will show you where you're at. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 21:47:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05733 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 21:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05713 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 21:47:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 26733 invoked by uid 27268); 2 May 1998 04:48:44 -0000 Date: 2 May 1998 04:48:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19980502044844.26732.qmail@xcf.berkeley.edu> From: Jason Nordwick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan X-Mailer: VM 6.32 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 4.4 > 95 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 22:14:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08772 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 22:14:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08764 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 22:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14063; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:13:48 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980502151345.44204@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:13:45 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Chris R." , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Don Wilde Subject: Re: Mouse Mats References: <00ae01bd7519$355902e0$923163c3@speedy> <19980502104413.B318@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980502104413.B318@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 10:44:13AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 10:44:13AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Fri, 1 May 1998 at 16:52:54 +0100, Chris R. wrote: > > ok heres the current situation: - > > > > I have found a local printer who can run off full colour (any > > mixtures) mouse mats with our chosen design. > > There is no start up cost, the mats are the rubber / fabric combo > > discussed and the minimum order is 100. > Sorry if I seem so negative, but I'm sure that we can get a better > deal. Let's find out. I'm on a small international mailing list for screen printers. Should I ask for quotes? If so, how many are we looking at? Single colour printing? (Sorry, I haven't followed this thread much) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 22:19:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09171 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 22:19:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09158 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 22:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA00597; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:48:57 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980502144857.B506@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:48:57 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Sue Blake Cc: "Chris R." , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Don Wilde Subject: Re: Mouse Mats References: <00ae01bd7519$355902e0$923163c3@speedy> <19980502104413.B318@freebie.lemis.com> <19980502151345.44204@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980502151345.44204@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 03:13:45PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 2 May 1998 at 15:13:45 +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 10:44:13AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Fri, 1 May 1998 at 16:52:54 +0100, Chris R. wrote: >>> ok heres the current situation: - >>> >>> I have found a local printer who can run off full colour (any >>> mixtures) mouse mats with our chosen design. >>> There is no start up cost, the mats are the rubber / fabric combo >>> discussed and the minimum order is 100. > >> Sorry if I seem so negative, but I'm sure that we can get a better >> deal. > > Let's find out. I'm on a small international mailing list for screen > printers. Should I ask for quotes? If so, how many are we looking at? > Single colour printing? (Sorry, I haven't followed this thread much) Well, while we're waiting for the rest of the world to wake up, here's my take (and I'm not in charge either :-). We have two possibilities: 1. We make enough for the people who want one. In this case, we should orient ourselves by the numbers of teeshirts and mugs that WC has sold. We should also get WC to market them, maybe even to arrange to have them made. My guess is in the 1000 to 5000 range. 2. We use them as an advertisment. In this case, we're probably looking at 10 times the number, and the pad should have a brief description of the product and how to get it written on the underside. Either way, I think we need the involvement of Walnut Creek. They've been very interested in the past, but teeshirts are relatively expensive, and mugs were too fragile. The daemon is a catchy looking thing, and people might buy them even if they're not (yet) interested in FreeBSD. Jordan, your call. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 23:15:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14673 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:15:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14668 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02191; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:14:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey cc: Sue Blake , "Chris R." , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Don Wilde Subject: Re: Mouse Mats In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 14:48:57 +0930." <19980502144857.B506@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 23:14:39 -0700 Message-ID: <2187.894089679@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Either way, I think we need the involvement of Walnut Creek. They've > been very interested in the past, but teeshirts are relatively > expensive, and mugs were too fragile. The daemon is a catchy looking > thing, and people might buy them even if they're not (yet) interested > in FreeBSD. Jordan, your call. FreeBSD mouse mats are a good idea. I'll talk to Bob tomororow about making it yet another item on our poor overworked art dept's list of things to research the production of. They're still running around in circles trying to get the stickers created and printed in reasonable quantity right now. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 23:43:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17180 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misfit.users.xmission.com (misfit.users.xmission.com [207.135.128.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17166 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:43:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from misfit@misfit.users.xmission.com) Received: (from misfit@localhost) by misfit.users.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id AAA06701; Sat, 2 May 1998 00:44:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from misfit) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: READ THIS FOR STICKER INFO! (was Re: FreeBSD * slogans*) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) Date: 02 May 1998 00:44:11 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells"'s message of "Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:12:28 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: <87g1it41fo.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jason C. Wells" writes: > Did any one else see the all-caps in this header and immediately think it > was spam? :) Good point. I'll resolve that issue. :-) -- Anthony C. Chavez To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 23:45:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17254 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:45:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misfit.users.xmission.com (misfit.users.xmission.com [207.135.128.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17249 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:45:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from misfit@misfit.users.xmission.com) Received: (from misfit@localhost) by misfit.users.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id AAA06710; Sat, 2 May 1998 00:45:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from misfit) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fah. Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) Date: 02 May 1998 00:45:54 -0600 Message-ID: <87btth41ct.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Lines: 5 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry about the repost. I'm just getting used to Gnus. That was supposed to be "resent" with a non spamlike subject. :-) -- Anthony C. Chavez To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 1 23:47:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17424 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:47:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misfit.users.xmission.com (misfit.users.xmission.com [207.135.128.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17413 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 23:47:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from misfit@misfit.users.xmission.com) Received: (from misfit@localhost) by misfit.users.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id AAA06718; Sat, 2 May 1998 00:48:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from misfit) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD sticker (please read) (was Re: FreeBSD * slogans*) Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) Date: 02 May 1998 00:48:13 -0600 Message-ID: <87af91418y.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Lines: 33 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nicole writes: > MS - where do you want to go today? > FreeBSD - Been there done that.. Next.. I like this one the best, but I'd have to say that a "plain" bumper sticker with the standard "Powered by FreeBSD" (with the lovely picture of Chuck that we are all familiar with) would look PERFECT on my 4x4 (right next to the "And God said... ... and then there was LIGHT!" sticker). In other words, I'd like the (official?) "Powered by FreeBSD" sticker the best. :-) --- Important part follows --- I recently spoke with a company (Pegasus Publishing, http://www.bab.com/) that prints bumper stickers, and they said that they would be willing to make FreeBSD stickers. I got permission from McKusick (or however you spell his name) to print the exact sticker I mentioned above (Powered by FreeBSD) to make 10 for personal use (not for sale), but was unable to hunt down a suitable graphic on the WWW (or anywhere else). I'm sure getting his permission to print stickers for sale won't be a problem. They need a very high resolution graphic that is fairly large. I have the exact dimensions in another mailbox. If anyone would like me to post them, let me know. PLUG: Go to Pegasus' web page! They have lots of really cool stuff for sale. Cthulhu/Lovecraft, role-playing/fantasy, and all sorts of other memorabilia for the hard-core geek. Not just stickers but t-shirts and other junk. Enjoy. -- Anthony C. Chavez To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 05:40:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16306 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 05:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16293 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 05:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yVbaU-00068P-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 13:40:18 +0100 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:40:18 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Don Wilde , Joey Garcia , Malartre Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-Reply-To: <3549CFB0.53BCC628@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! > Sh*t, I even _use_ GUI's myself (sometimes). I just don't want to get > STUCK with using them to accomplish things. That's all. We aleady have > /stand/sysinstall, it would be really good to extend that to include > printers and ISP-connect ppp (as opposed to network link). > > For anything else, let the GUI gather user info, then feed a script (or > compiled program, whichever) with it. That way all of us are happy! That sounds quite sensible---it doesn't have to cover everything but should cover most of the useful basic things. [Assuming that the -current /stand/sysinstall is the same as the 2.2.5 version] I am not personally keen on the dialog interface---I prefer the interface in the sysadmsh utility under SCO UNIX V r4 (the one before the current Open Server, though I'm not sure what the exact name was). This seemed to cover everything including kernel config (which, admittedly is different for FreeBSD), users, devices, packages and printers, etc. It was also customisable to a certain extent. (It has since been replaced in OpenServer by scoadmin, which isn't quite as nice but means that the same program is available in X using SCO's TCL.) The source for /stand/sysinstall says that the next version will be a complete rewrite. What is/will the interface be like for the new version? Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 06:42:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22679 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22648 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:41:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22647; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Don Wilde , Joey Garcia , Malartre Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 13:40:18 BST." Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 06:41:20 -0700 Message-ID: <22642.894116480@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > version] I am not personally keen on the dialog interface---I prefer the I don't know of any who are... But when it's all you have. :) > The source for /stand/sysinstall says that the next version will be a > complete rewrite. What is/will the interface be like for the new version? We have no idea. :-) One of the major reasons why the next version is about 2 years late now is the fact that no reasonable UI libraries for doing everything we need to do in a reasonably non-complex way currently exist. On the complex side there's TurboVision, very sexy and featureful but also requiring one to write in C++ and understand its somewhat arcane class library, and on the simple side we have plain ncurses(3) which is easy to use but also an unhelpful pain in the butt for implementing all the various text object and menu frobs you'd need for sysinstall II. Everyone's truly keen to see this all happen, I think they really are, we just need a better set of base tools to work with. If this were a commercial software project, I'd also just go shopping at this point and see what nifty tools I could buy. Since we're not, I can't. :-( Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 06:56:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24665 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:56:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24555 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:55:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yVclL-000072-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:55:35 +0100 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:55:36 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Don Wilde , Joey Garcia , Malartre Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default / sysinstall II In-Reply-To: <22642.894116480@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! > > version] I am not personally keen on the dialog interface---I prefer the > I don't know of any who are... But when it's all you have. :) > > > The source for /stand/sysinstall says that the next version will be a > > complete rewrite. What is/will the interface be like for the new version? > We have no idea. :-) > One of the major reasons why the next version is about 2 years late > now is the fact that no reasonable UI libraries for doing everything > we need to do in a reasonably non-complex way currently exist. On the > complex side there's TurboVision, very sexy and featureful but also > requiring one to write in C++ and understand its somewhat arcane class > library, and on the simple side we have plain ncurses(3) which is easy > to use but also an unhelpful pain in the butt for implementing all the > various text object and menu frobs you'd need for sysinstall II. > > Everyone's truly keen to see this all happen, I think they really are, > we just need a better set of base tools to work with. If this were a > commercial software project, I'd also just go shopping at this point > and see what nifty tools I could buy. Since we're not, I can't. :-( I forgot to mention that SCO's sysadmsh (and scosh) are written in a sort of toolkit called oash, but unfortunately, I think it's owned by SCO and therefore presumably not available. Would it be useful to write something like this for FreeBSD? (Perhaps slightly different from dialog!) I suppose the sophistication of the toolkit you want depends on the sophistication of the user interface. But the user interface doesn't have to be very sophisticated to look nice. (sysadmsh isn't very sophisticated.) Do you want sysinstall II to run as an X application too? (Like scoadmin on the SCO Open Server.) That would then be harder. Has anyone seen SCO's sysadmsh/scoadmin or any other similar config programs? What did you think of them? Thanks. Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 07:08:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26355 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26324 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:08:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22914; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:08:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Don Wilde , Joey Garcia , Malartre Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default / sysinstall II In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 14:55:36 BST." Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 07:08:16 -0700 Message-ID: <22910.894118096@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I forgot to mention that SCO's sysadmsh (and scosh) are written in a sort > of toolkit called oash, but unfortunately, I think it's owned by SCO and > therefore presumably not available. Would it be useful to write something > like this for FreeBSD? (Perhaps slightly different from dialog!) We'd welcome any sort of effort to write a UI toolkit, yes! > I suppose the sophistication of the toolkit you want depends on the > sophistication of the user interface. But the user interface doesn't have > to be very sophisticated to look nice. (sysadmsh isn't very > sophisticated.) No argument there. That's why TurboVision hasn't been exactly eagerly embraced - like I said, it's exceedingly sexy and does anything one could want, but it's just a bit TOO general purpose to be something one can come up to speed on in an afternoon. :) A much more practical UI library would take the approach of giving the programmer some flexibility in laying out internal fields but keep the dialogs all pretty standard. This has the positive effect of also forcing the UI hackers to keep to a consistent L&F, even if it might not always be as general as they'd like, and not confuse the poor users any more than they already are. > Do you want sysinstall II to run as an X application too? (Like scoadmin > on the SCO Open Server.) That would then be harder. The ideal "UI layer", of course, would treat the back-end "scribble on the screen" bits abstractly enough that you could use the same "stick me up a form that looks like this" code for both X and TTY applications, each environment being somehow auto-detected and the appropriate back-end piece loaded in (or you could just take the lazy man's approach and do it at link time, offering several different binaries). People have made the point that a toolkit done properly this way could even be driven around by a web browser since spitting HTML at a browser is just one more variation on the theme. But bear in mind that this is all an ideal and should be purely optional to anyone who actually wishes to implement a solution that we can use within our current lifetimes. :-) > Has anyone seen SCO's sysadmsh/scoadmin or any other similar config > programs? What did you think of them? I actually thought sysadmsh was fairly usable. Simplistic, yes, but it brought a lot of the admin functions under one set of menus so I could find them quickly, and for doing _certain_ kinds of things it was quicker than just doing it at the shell prompt. It also made some really braindead decisions too, of course, and I'd hope that we'd not have to repeat those. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 07:41:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01340 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:41:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01329 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yVdSx-00018X-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:40:39 +0100 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:40:40 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Don Wilde , Joey Garcia , Malartre Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default / sysinstall II In-Reply-To: <22910.894118096@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! > > I forgot to mention that SCO's sysadmsh (and scosh) are written in a sort > > of toolkit called oash, but unfortunately, I think it's owned by SCO and > > therefore presumably not available. Would it be useful to write something > > like this for FreeBSD? (Perhaps slightly different from dialog!) > We'd welcome any sort of effort to write a UI toolkit, yes! Is there any sort of standard for UI toolkits? How appropriate are tk or VTCL? > A much more practical > UI library would take the approach of giving the programmer some > flexibility in laying out internal fields but keep the dialogs all > pretty standard. This has the positive effect of also forcing the UI > hackers to keep to a consistent L&F, even if it might not always be as > general as they'd like, and not confuse the poor users any more than > they already are. Something like SCO's oash sounds quite sensible for this. Is there anything similar available that we could use? > The ideal "UI layer", of course, would treat the back-end "scribble on > the screen" bits abstractly enough that you could use the same "stick > me up a form that looks like this" code for both X and TTY > applications, each environment being somehow auto-detected and the > appropriate back-end piece loaded in (or you could just take the lazy > man's approach and do it at link time, offering several different > binaries). That's what SCO's scoadmin does. I think it does it by having one TCL script which runs the appropriate code for the environment. However, the way they did it (or the way their TCL works) means that the TTY version doesn't look as nice. (It's also harder to use than sysadmsh.) > I actually thought sysadmsh was fairly usable. Simplistic, yes, but > it brought a lot of the admin functions under one set of menus so I > could find them quickly, and for doing _certain_ kinds of things it > was quicker than just doing it at the shell prompt. It also made > some really braindead decisions too, of course, and I'd hope that we'd > not have to repeat those. :-) Yes, I agree with that. Do we want sysinstall II to be more complex? It might be nice to have a setting for Novice/Express/Custom (Or novice/intermediate/advanced) all the way through (like sysinstall for installing FreeBSD) so that only the important things are available for novice use, more for Express and everything for custom. Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 07:42:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01553 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01507 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:42:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-250.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.250]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA82320; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:41:58 GMT Message-ID: <354B29FB.481D19BB@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 07:13:15 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: CyberPeasant , FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Best description of BSDs award goes to => References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason C. Wells wrote: > > On Fri, 1 May 1998, CyberPeasant wrote: > > >come speedbumps. Linux = Ferrari, BSD=Mercedes-Benz, (OpenBSD > >comes with bulletproof tinted glass, FreeBSD with the high performance > >diesel engine, ... turbocharged ... running on low-pollution natural gas!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 07:42:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01563 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01536 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:42:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-250.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.250]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA27760; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:41:54 GMT Message-ID: <354B2984.CC161BAB@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 07:11:17 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ben Cohen wrote: > > Hi! > > > Sh*t, I even _use_ GUI's myself (sometimes). I just don't want to get > > STUCK with using them to accomplish things. That's all. We aleady have > > /stand/sysinstall, [snip] > [Assuming that the -current /stand/sysinstall is the same as the 2.2.5 > version] I am not personally keen on the dialog interface---I prefer the > interface in the sysadmsh utility under SCO UNIX V r4 (the one before the > current Open Server, though I'm not sure what the exact name was). This > seemed to cover everything including kernel config (which, admittedly > is different for FreeBSD), users, devices, packages and printers, etc. > It was also customisable to a certain extent. > > (It has since been replaced in OpenServer by scoadmin, which isn't quite > as nice but means that the same program is available in X using SCO's > TCL.) > > The source for /stand/sysinstall says that the next version will be a > complete rewrite. What is/will the interface be like for the new version? > > Ben. Haven't seen either. I did see some HP-UX admin screens briefly, but haven't done admin work with it so I can't comment. I just want to keep the GUI-to-script separation absolute, because I don't want to lose any of the command-line text-file configuration interface. I'm afraid that GUI will eventually lead to binary config files, and then we've lost the access to mass config changes. I'm speaking specifically of user changes in passwd, but there are other places where I want to use scripts to make config changes. Before I get flamed, I realize that GUI doesn't imply lack of access, I just want to keep it on the sane path from the start. I'm starting to dig through the ports install scripts and such with some tips from Jordan. I think our problem needs to be addressed at a deeper level first, before we even begin to talk GUI. For example, while installing printing, I discovered that /stand/sysinstall is completely blind to the /usr/ports/print branch of the ports tree. This means it can't find ghostscript, freetype, etc., and therefore crashes. We need to clear up these inconsistencies first, so the tools we have _work_. These are the things that frustrate a new user, especially one who doesn't know that disk 3 has some stuff and disk 4 has more. All he sees is CRASH! error 1 error 1... I know how to look for these things, and I _still_ can't find apsfilter on 2.2.6! Sure, if I'd been smart enough to config my modem first, it would have gone out and fetched these packages, but that's beside the point. I'm sure the ports-maintainer goes nuts before each release trying to keep up with all of this, and we need to work on it so it's automatically more consistent. That's what computers are for. I will say right up front that I am still a UN*X newbie, but I've bought _lots_ of O'Reilly books and I'm slowly working my way through them. The more I read, the more I see that FreeBSD is a rough-cut gem that just needs a little TLC because it's really a perfect blue-white. It just takes a few judicious taps and we'll have a brilliant-cut diamond flashing in the Sun! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 07:58:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04490 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:58:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04482 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yVdjf-0001VV-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:57:55 +0100 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:57:56 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: Don Wilde cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-Reply-To: <354B2984.CC161BAB@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! > I just want to keep > the GUI-to-script separation absolute, because I don't want to lose any > of the command-line text-file configuration interface. I'm afraid that > GUI will eventually lead to binary config files, and then we've lost the > access to mass config changes. I'm speaking specifically of user changes > in passwd, but there are other places where I want to use scripts to > make config changes. Before I get flamed, I realize that GUI doesn't > imply lack of access, I just want to keep it on the sane path from the > start. I agree---I'm sure there are plenty of places where things are bound to be easier editing a config file rather than using a config program (both in terms of writing a the program and using it). And it would be simpler having text config files because then they can be inspected by hand easily (e.g. if the GUI fails or is suspected broken) and the sources for programs which use the configs wouldn't have to be re-written. > I'm starting to dig through the ports install scripts and such with some > tips from Jordan. I think our problem needs to be addressed at a deeper > level first, before we even begin to talk GUI. Yes. The config program could be split up into several different programs each of which could be worked on separately. e.g. Ports manager, X config manager, system admin, ... > I will say right up front that I am still a UN*X newbie, but I've bought > _lots_ of O'Reilly books and I'm slowly working my way through them. The > more I read, the more I see that FreeBSD is a rough-cut gem that just > needs a little TLC because it's really a perfect blue-white. It just > takes a few judicious taps and we'll have a brilliant-cut diamond > flashing in the Sun! I'm a newbie too. I first used SCO UNIX V a year or so ago, which I prefer in a few ways, partly because I used SCO first. (e.g. sysadmsh) Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 11:01:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26978 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26957 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:01:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from don@partsnow.com) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id LAA11983 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:00:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from wildeweb(192.168.100.10) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma011978; Sat, 2 May 98 10:59:55 -0700 Message-ID: <354B5F1A.97214D81@partsnow.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 10:59:54 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: don@partsnow.com Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: slogans Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Front: ... and ALL the MCSE's in the WORLD couldn't put NT together... PERIOD. Back: [chuckie] FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo  To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 11:39:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02191 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:39:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bsd.synx.com (rt.synx.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA02158 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 11:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from <@rn.synx.com:root@synx.com>) Received: from s3.synx.com (s3 [192.1.1.247]) by bsd.synx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA24835; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:44:10 +0100 Received: from rn by s3.synx.com id aa13430; 2 May 98 20:29 BST Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:38:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Remy NONNENMACHER Reply-To: remy@synx.com Subject: Re: Slogan To: grog@lemis.com cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980501155416.A27630@freebie.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Message-ID: <9805022029.aa13430@s3.synx.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1 May, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thu, 30 April 1998 at 23:16:31 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>> Besides, I think the Philip Morris company might object to this slogan. >>> ( For the non-smokers out there, Veni - Vidi - Vici, is part of their >>> corporate logo. ) >> >> How about "Veni - Vidi - Coiti" then? > > You always get things round the wrong way. > > Vidi - Coiti - Veni > > Greg > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message Also on the Latinist way : FreeBSD: Nil obstat (greg: nil or nihil ?) On a previous idea : Get le Best, Let the Rest : FreBSD --------- And now, can somebody confirm : >> .... Why the >> hell would anyone in their right mind move a web server from a tried and >> true UNIX box to a baby OS like NT? > > For the same reason Microsoft tried to switch Hotmail from Solaris to >NT.. Mental insanity. Luckily for the thousands of Hotmail users, the >engineers realized before it was too late that NT wouldn't handle the >traffic, so they reinstated Solaris for messages and (according to my >sources) the web server is now Apache running on FreeBSD. ^^^^^^^ (Extract from an Anti-M$ list) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 15:39:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27913 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:39:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27871 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24933; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Don Wilde , Joey Garcia , Malartre Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default / sysinstall II In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 15:40:40 BST." Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:39:23 -0700 Message-ID: <24929.894148763@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there any sort of standard for UI toolkits? How appropriate are tk or > VTCL? They're not. They require X to be running and that's right out for a _baseline_ installer since it A) can't count on X being a workable item on all given hardware and B) can't even count on X being a _desired_ item on things like dedicated ISP servers which don't even have VGA cards in them. > Something like SCO's oash sounds quite sensible for this. Is there > anything similar available that we could use? Like I said - you tell me; we've been looking for ages. :) > Yes, I agree with that. Do we want sysinstall II to be more complex? More comprehensive, anyway. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 15:43:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28802 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:43:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28797 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:43:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24981; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:42:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 07:11:17 PDT." <354B2984.CC161BAB@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:42:43 -0700 Message-ID: <24978.894148963@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > level first, before we even begin to talk GUI. For example, while > installing printing, I discovered that /stand/sysinstall is completely > blind to the /usr/ports/print branch of the ports tree. This means it > can't find ghostscript, freetype, etc., and therefore crashes. We need Huh? Sysinstall has NO implicit knowledge of the ports tree and never has had. What are you even talking about here? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 16:05:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02022 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:05:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01994 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:05:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yVlKx-0003MR-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 00:04:55 +0100 Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:04:58 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: dwilde1@ibm.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-Reply-To: <24978.894148963@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > level first, before we even begin to talk GUI. For example, while > > installing printing, I discovered that /stand/sysinstall is completely > > blind to the /usr/ports/print branch of the ports tree. This means it > > can't find ghostscript, freetype, etc., and therefore crashes. We need > > Huh? Sysinstall has NO implicit knowledge of the ports tree and never > has had. What are you even talking about here? It would be handy (wouldn't it?) if the packages part of /stand/sysinstall could also understand the ports tree and be able to manage installation of ports and other packages. This _should_ be possible because the ports tree has a sensible structure: nothing much really needs to be hard-coded into the program because it can extract the information it needs from the HTML files there and /usr/ports/*/pkg/DESCR. Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 16:43:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07427 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07422 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:43:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07663 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:43:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <354BAF93.54B38927@san.rr.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 16:43:15 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0426 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slogan References: <1084.894074385@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Free your mind, and your software will follow Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 16:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07679 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07674 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:45:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25313; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:44:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk cc: dwilde1@ibm.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 03 May 1998 00:04:58 BST." Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 16:44:53 -0700 Message-ID: <25309.894152693@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Um. Making this work would be trivial than you think. Interaction with the user, specifically, is something that would be difficult from within sysinstall's current framework given that all I/O goes to a different screen than the one the user is generally looking at. There are a host of other issues as well and anyone wishing to tackle them in sysinstall can be my guest because I don't particularly feel like trying to make it work. :-) - Jordan > > > > level first, before we even begin to talk GUI. For example, while > > > installing printing, I discovered that /stand/sysinstall is completely > > > blind to the /usr/ports/print branch of the ports tree. This means it > > > can't find ghostscript, freetype, etc., and therefore crashes. We need > > > > Huh? Sysinstall has NO implicit knowledge of the ports tree and never > > has had. What are you even talking about here? > > It would be handy (wouldn't it?) if the packages part of /stand/sysinstall > could also understand the ports tree and be able to manage installation of > ports and other packages. This _should_ be possible because the ports > tree has a sensible structure: nothing much really needs to be hard-coded > into the program because it can extract the information it needs from the > HTML files there and /usr/ports/*/pkg/DESCR. > > Ben. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 17:07:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10972 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:07:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10674 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25490; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:05:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) cc: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, dwilde1@ibm.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 16:44:53 PDT." <25309.894152693@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:05:19 -0700 Message-ID: <25487.894153919@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Um. Making this work would be trivial than you think. Interaction ^ less :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 18:55:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25311 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25269 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-96.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.96]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA05758; Sun, 3 May 1998 01:55:02 GMT Message-ID: <354BC8D3.41BA890F@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:30:59 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default References: <24978.894148963@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > level first, before we even begin to talk GUI. For example, while > > installing printing, I discovered that /stand/sysinstall is completely > > blind to the /usr/ports/print branch of the ports tree. This means it > > can't find ghostscript, freetype, etc., and therefore crashes. We need > > Huh? Sysinstall has NO implicit knowledge of the ports tree and never > has had. What are you even talking about here? Well, then obviously we need to add something. :) What I saw was that 1) most of the "blah-1.2.3.tar.gz not found" messages were from /usr/ports/print programs, and I looked at the 'add packages' screen and 2) didn't see 'print' as a category. Therefore, I jumped to the conclusion that 3) /stand/sysinstall can't see files referenced in /usr/ports/print. If it's hard coded for all the packages, then that's bad, isn't it? Why does it not find ghostscript (4 or 5), gv, freetype, transfig, teTeX, freetype, playmidi, postgresql or gdb? I thought all the pkg_add's were on disk 1, it's only the source ports that are split between disks 3 and 4. If packages are split, we need to address this, because crashes on basic dependencies like ghostscript are bad. And yes, I got apsfilter off my 2.2.5 disks. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 18:55:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25338 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:55:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25304 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-96.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.96]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA91536; Sun, 3 May 1998 01:55:06 GMT Message-ID: <354BC996.B7F9C607@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:34:14 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Remember that the ports tree is not installed by default. I would imagine that all tarballs come from a distfiles directory, but it _is_ a mystery as to why it couldn't find things. In all of this, I'm not trying to belittle the job the ports maintainers do, I just want to understand it and fix it if possible. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 18:55:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25348 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:55:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25318 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-96.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.96]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA106688; Sun, 3 May 1998 01:55:15 GMT Message-ID: <354BCAF6.43C30972@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:40:06 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default / sysinstall II References: <22910.894118096@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I saw a curses version of Tk in there somewhere. Anybody got opinions? Tcl can do most everything we need, from my experience with it so far, though I haven't done GUI, only 'expect' work. --> Don ps gotta shut up. I need to learn too much to get caught up here... :))) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 18:56:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25766 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:56:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (host77-33.airnet.net [209.64.77.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25714 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00455 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:56:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <354BCEC4.7488008C@airnet.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:56:21 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD versus LINUX References: <199805010330.WAA00565@darkstar.connect.com> <354b8c8c.300570838@mail.cetlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Kelly wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:30:41 -0500 (CDT), Frank Pawlak > wrote: > > >In answering the question as I did, I was trying to provide some > >information to persons that were switching from Linux to FreeBSD and > >asking for information on the differences between them, and quite > >frankly were given bullshit for an answer. > > I don't think so. Take of poll of all ISP's running either of the > two, and I think you'll find that the vast majority prefer FreeBSD > instead of Linux. My statement stands. "Amateurs like Linux, but > professionals prefer FreeBSD." I just returned from a 3rd-12th grade technology conference. I found Windows 95 in abudance. The machines that weren't running 95 were dual-booting (with LILO) to Linux. When commenting about FreeBSD, one person told me quite bluntly: "I'm not down with that FreeBSD shit." For those of you unaccustomed to the many ideosyncracies of the English language, he is saying that he doesn't like FreeBSD, and expresses no future interest in it. But his main point was being able to configure everything from X. What does he think this is Windows 95 or UN*X?! I *really* felt bad for not bringing my machine (with the numerous pics of Chuck. :)) What I saw when Linux was booting I did not like. It reminded me *too* much of DOS. I now firmly believe that Linux is the Windows of the UN*X world. flames >> /dev/null -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 19:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01354 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01343 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26162; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:20:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 18:30:59 PDT." <354BC8D3.41BA890F@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 19:20:12 -0700 Message-ID: <26158.894162012@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, then obviously we need to add something. :) What I saw was that 1) > most of the "blah-1.2.3.tar.gz not found" messages were from > /usr/ports/print programs, and I looked at the 'add packages' screen and > 2) didn't see 'print' as a category. Therefore, I jumped to the That's not the ports collection you're looking at, that's the *packages* collection for one thing and they're both very different kettles of fish when discussing this kind of thing. Second, you didn't see print/ on the 2.2.6 CD because it was moved due to space constraints, as the README.TXT file in the root level directory of the CDROM clearly and explicitly states and you just as clearly failed to read! :-) I know that situations like this are hardly ideal and if we had some sort of "package meta-INDEX" system working now and ready to deploy, you can bet that I'd certainly use it to get things like media swapping to work. But we don't right now and so it's REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT that people at least read the included documentation so they know just where and when they're about to leave the marked trails. :-) More user-friendliess desired, to be certain, but it's no substitute for people reading the basic documentation. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 19:21:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01570 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01535 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26185; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:21:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default / sysinstall II In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 18:40:06 PDT." <354BCAF6.43C30972@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 19:21:03 -0700 Message-ID: <26182.894162063@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's called Ctk and it's already been extensively analysed, discussed on the various mailing lists (on and off for 2 years) and rejected for reasons too involved to go into here. Check the mailing list archives. :-) - Jordan > I saw a curses version of Tk in there somewhere. Anybody got opinions? > Tcl can do most everything we need, from my experience with it so far, > though I haven't done GUI, only 'expect' work. > > --> Don > ps gotta shut up. I need to learn too much to get caught up here... :))) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 19:21:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01698 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:21:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01655; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:21:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA03654; Sun, 3 May 1998 11:51:41 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980503115141.I3202@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:51:41 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: InfoWorld Electric: Linux Zealots Trashing FreeBSD, Berkeley License Reply-To: FreeBSD advocacy list References: <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, May 02, 1998 at 06:25:47PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 2 May 1998 at 18:25:47 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > As usual, a group of GPL zealots have gotten loose in an InfoWorld forum, > claiming that RMS is nothing less than a saint and that the GPL is The One > True Way. They're also trashing FreeBSD and the Berkeley-style license > quite a bit. Some folks from this list might care to join in.... In fact, I > think they should, as previous discussions on the InfoWorld forums have > raised FreeBSD's profile. The URL for the discussion is > > http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?53767 > > You can read the messages without registering, but need to fill out a short > registration form to post. (From what I can tell, you don't have to give > much -- or accurate -- information on the form.) Copying (and following-up to) advocacy. This seems a better forum. Well, speech is free, but I don't think you'll get much satisfaction fighting a bunch of people who see things differently. Having said that, of course, I'd have a hard time suggesting that you stop :-) I don't think that it's a good idea to get FreeBSD's name too involved in this kind of discussion, though. It'll just give the zealots more ammunition. (I don't know if you *do* mention FreeBSD--I haven't had time to read all the messages. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 19:27:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03088 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:27:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02811 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26238; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:25:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI greyscale interface by default In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 May 1998 18:34:14 PDT." <354BC996.B7F9C607@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 19:25:58 -0700 Message-ID: <26234.894162358@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Remember that the ports tree is not installed by default. I would > imagine that all tarballs come from a distfiles directory, but it _is_ a > mystery as to why it couldn't find things. Again, this has NOTHING to do with the ports collection! :-) There is no mystery at all here. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 2 20:19:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14502 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:19:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14493; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15026; Sat, 2 May 1998 21:18:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199805030318.VAA15026@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:18:49 -0600 To: FreeBSD advocacy list , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: InfoWorld Electric: Linux Zealots Trashing FreeBSD, Berkeley License In-Reply-To: <19980503115141.I3202@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org> <199805030025.SAA13484@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm not mentioning FreeBSD explicitly in my messages, but I *am* advocating the Berkeley-style license. The angry zealots who respond to me, however, are trashing FreeBSD and the *BSDs in general. I agree that one can rarely "win" these arguments, but one can raise the awareness level of the lurkers (of which there are many) that there's an alternative point of view. That's where the benefit comes in. --Brett P.S. -- I'm cross-posting this one reply to both lists, but further discussion probably shouldn't be. At 11:51 AM 5/3/98 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Sat, 2 May 1998 at 18:25:47 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >> As usual, a group of GPL zealots have gotten loose in an InfoWorld forum, >> claiming that RMS is nothing less than a saint and that the GPL is The One >> True Way. They're also trashing FreeBSD and the Berkeley-style license >> quite a bit. Some folks from this list might care to join in.... In fact, I >> think they should, as previous discussions on the InfoWorld forums have >> raised FreeBSD's profile. The URL for the discussion is >> >> http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?53767 >> >> You can read the messages without registering, but need to fill out a short >> registration form to post. (From what I can tell, you don't have to give >> much -- or accurate -- information on the form.) > >Copying (and following-up to) advocacy. This seems a better forum. > >Well, speech is free, but I don't think you'll get much satisfaction >fighting a bunch of people who see things differently. Having said >that, of course, I'd have a hard time suggesting that you stop :-) > >I don't think that it's a good idea to get FreeBSD's name too involved >in this kind of discussion, though. It'll just give the zealots more >ammunition. (I don't know if you *do* mention FreeBSD--I haven't had >time to read all the messages. > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message