From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 17 18:11:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02183 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 18:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02134 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-37.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.37]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA95322; Mon, 18 May 1998 01:11:11 GMT Message-ID: <355F7EE8.E7DD3D6A@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:20:56 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: On the subject of O'Reilly FreeBSD books... References: <199805151703.KAA05044@time.cdrom.com> <19980516111711.Y1953@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > him. Want to work together? > > We're working together :-) It's beginning to look like a separate > book, however. > Great! That means even MORE good info. GO Greg! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 05:31:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26278 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 05:31:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA25833 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 05:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsdadv@shadows.aeon.net) Received: (from bsdadv@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id PAA09823 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:33:46 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199805181233.PAA09823@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: A lot of idea --- Coordination In-Reply-To: <19980419145149.00252@welearn.com.au> from Sue Blake at "Apr 19, 98 02:51:49 pm" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:33:46 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [i know, a month old one, but then again, i'm 23 megabytes behind with my mailinglists...] > You are FreeBSD. I am FreeBSD. "we are the FreeBSD. resistance IS futile. we complited a full scale search thru your Linux vessels, your system is no match to ours, overwrite your Linux, you WILL BE assimilated." mickey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 13:08:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18964 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA18913 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 4040 invoked by uid 1017); 18 May 1998 18:02:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:02:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Why we should support Microsoft... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know I am going out on a limbe here, but I do not think the Justice Department should make any decisions on the software industry, and I think Microsoft should be allowed to ship whatever the hell it wants. We are told that this is a free, capitalistic country, but now they want to say it is just sort-of capitalistic? That you can make all the money you want, until you make too much? What kind of crap is that? I belive in economic Darwinism; that is to say, good products flourish and poor products wilt away. The consumer ultimately decides what sells and what doesn't, and not the providers. If Win98 stinks, I hope it dies and forces MS to make better products. But who am I to say what they should or should not try to do? Adding insult to this whole situation are the demands of the US Government. Now these are plain silly, and I applaud Bill Gates for telling them where to go with their suggesions: * That Microsoft disable their browser, and _all_available_means of accessing it. This is _almost_ reasonable, but I can understand the common vision of PC's as extensions to the Internet. To make a browser part of an OS seems like a really cool idea to me. Now I do agree 100% that other browsers should be able to operate in the new environment (eg, no MS booby traps or proprietary mumbo jumbo to prevent competition) * If MS does include a browser, they must also provide all competing products as well. Can you say horse? That is entirely ludicrous. To paraphrase Bill Gates, "It is like having to include 2 cans of Pepsi in every Coke six pack." Amen. As I said, take off the restrictions and let the best product win. As consumers, _WE_ are the ones getting hosed in this ordeal, not Microsoft. * MS must modify their "Window Manager" so that OEMs and competitors can customize their visual. How would all the developers of FreeBSD feel if I took a FreeBSD release, changed the GUI a bit, and called it AtipaOS? You would feel smited. Also, the continuity of the UI is the only thing that makes supporting this crap OS possible. If everyone had their own interface, providers would have a bear of a time giving accurate, detailed instructions. We must take a stand, and tell the Justice Deptartment to bugger off. They do not understand the software industry, they are setting a horrible precendent, and depriving the American people of free choice. They are ruining a good, competitive environment by degrading the efforts of the front runner, instead of promoting the laggers. We are all losing out. The issue to me is not whether or not Win98 is good or bad, the issue is freedom. I support Bill Gates in this issue, and hope you will as well. Hopefully, this product will fail all on its own, and open the doors to good programmers all over the world, without US ecomonic intervention. I hope you all can see through this junk. Liberty must be preserved. Let the best products win, and let MS die on its own two feet. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 15:04:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16630 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:04:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16456 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:03:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA19506; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:02:49 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980519080247.08529@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:02:47 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Atipa Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Atipa on Mon, May 18, 1998 at 12:02:55PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 18, 1998 at 12:02:55PM -0600, Atipa wrote: > > > > I know I am going out on a limbe here, but I do not think the Justice > Department should make any decisions on the software industry, and I think > Microsoft should be allowed to ship whatever the hell it wants. I fail to see what on earth miscellaneous causes have got to do with FreeBSD advocacy, but my real beef is the cross posting. Is anyone else getting fed up with reading every damn message of a thread twice, once in -chat and once in -advocacy? Maybe we should put a basic email tutorial on the CDs which has to be successfully completed before the installation will work :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 15:17:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19766 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:17:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19685 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:16:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (minbar-1-55.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.135.55]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.8.8) id RAA22930; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:16:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02292; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:16:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980518221630.ZM2291@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:16:30 +0000 In-Reply-To: Kerri Kraft "ISP Marketing Statistics" (May 18, 11:12am) References: <356079F6.61831481@pop.vfi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: kerri@vfi.com Subject: Re: ISP Marketing Statistics Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Kerri, I am involved in the FreeBSD advocacy group of volunteers. I am willing to work with you to get the information you require. We are in the process of determing the FreeBSD usage statistics that you are interested in. Present estimates put the FreeBSD installed base somewhere between 750,000 and 1,000,000,000 users. The user base is by and large made up of servers, supporting some of the most heavily trafficed ftp sites on the Internet. FreeBSD and Linux are both open source operating systems. While we are not necessarily direct competitors, there are some significant differences between us that make FreeBSD a better server platform. One major difference is that FreeBSD is developed and released under a closed development model, vs the open development and release model of Linux. There are also licensing issues that we feel make FreeBSD a friendlier environment from embeded system development. If I may ask, what is your interest in FreeBSD? This information will be useful in providing more detail to answer your questions in more depth. Please let me know how I can be of further service. Our web page at www.freebsd.org maybe of use to you. Sincerely, Frank Pawlak On May 18, 11:12am, Kerri Kraft wrote: > Subject: ISP Marketing Statistics > I am a Product Marketing Manager for Internet Commerce at VeriFone. I > am looking for market statistics. Specifically, of the ISPs in the US, > what is the number (or %) of FreeBSD installations and can that number > be broken down by local, regional, and national ISPs? > > Is Linux considered a competitor? How do you compare with them in the > ISP market place? > > Thank you, > Kerri > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Kerri Kraft To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 15:35:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23521 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23477 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id SAA27855; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:34:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Atipa cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 18 May 1998, Atipa wrote: > > Good Idea :) > I know I am going out on a limbe here, but I do not think the Justice > Department should make any decisions on the software industry, and I think > Microsoft should be allowed to ship whatever the hell it wants. Agreed > We are told that this is a free, capitalistic country, but now they want > to say it is just sort-of capitalistic? That you can make all the money > you want, until you make too much? What kind of crap is that? The difference here is the way as I understand it the anti trust laws work. Making money is fine and dandy and as bill gates can attest in america you CAN make more money then GOD himself. His ability to make money is not what the DOJ is trying to prevent. In the anti trust laws, a monopoly is forced to carry a competitors product when its deemed they have a monopoly, or something like that. For instance if for example shell oil had the only fleet in the world of oil tankers, they would be forced to carry texaco oil or another competitors oil at cheaper then they carry their own. It goes something like that anyway. > I belive in economic Darwinism; that is to say, good products flourish and > poor products wilt away. The consumer ultimately decides what sells and > what doesn't, and not the providers. If Win98 stinks, I hope it dies and > forces MS to make better products. But who am I to say what they should or > should not try to do? The problem as I see it is a waste of all these law suits time. the only way to get MS to play nice and eventually be destroyed by superior products like FreeBSD is to OPEN THE FREAKIN PC MAKERS TO CARRY MORE THAN MS!!! The fact that you CANNOT get ANYTHING but MS installed on a pc you order from dell, compaw, etc.. is the problem. That is the problem. Granted its unfair that MS bundle IE with windows and thereby gain an automatic 90% market share for ie by bundling it with windows which is 90% of the market. BUT even though that is unfair, if you open the pc makers to selling more OS's preinstalled then just windows THAT will solve all these unfairness issues later on. IMO the only way to really solve this is to cut the problem off at the source. Which is the pc makers. If they didnt ship EVERY pc with windows, there wouldnt be a 90% market share, without a 90% market share, there wouldnt be any benefit for MS to bundle their products with their OS to gain unfair share of the market. At least thats how I see it. I think all these AG's and the DOJ are simply smoking crack and trying to force netscape to be bundled with windows instead of getting at the root of the problem and going after some kind of resolve to get PC makers to offer alternative OS's on PC's when purchased, is just insane. It doesnt solve ANYTHING. in another 2 years it will be sun fighting for their last breath as NT starts taking their market. MS has to be cut off at the PC vendors pplain and simple. > do not understand the software industry, they are setting a horrible > precendent, and depriving the American people of free choice. > > They are ruining a good, competitive environment by degrading the efforts > of the front runner, instead of promoting the laggers. We are all losing > out. > The issue to me is not whether or not Win98 is good or bad, the issue is > freedom. I support Bill Gates in this issue, and hope you will as well. > Hopefully, this product will fail all on its own, and open the doors to > good programmers all over the world, without US ecomonic intervention. I agree I think its a bad, stupid, poorly planned illinformed move by the AG's and the DOJ, like I said their efforst are stupid and a waste of time, the problem as *I* see it is the fact that MS will continute to hold 90%+ shares of the market unless pc makers offer choices of OS to be installed on new PC's other than windows. Thats where the root of this starts I think. It's a deadlock. You cant win. Most people buy their PC's from dell or compaq, or HP. Ask any of them if they can install something other than windows. Do you hear them laughing at you? I already made this point clear to my AG. This entire thing is so retarded its not even funny. Chris -- "I don't do favors, I accumulate debts" ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 16:58:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14576 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:58:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14486 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:58:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA09093; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805182358.QAA09093@implode.root.com> To: "Frank Pawlak" cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISP Marketing Statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 May 1998 22:16:30 -0000." <980518221630.ZM2291@darkstar.connect.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:58:24 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >interested in. Present estimates put the FreeBSD installed base somewhere >between 750,000 and 1,000,000,000 users. I would truely be impressed if the FreeBSD userbase was anywhere near 1 billion. :-) -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 17:06:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16326 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:06:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16170 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (androzani-1-126.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.92.126]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id TAA17268; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:05:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02506; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:05:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980519000557.ZM2505@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:05:57 +0000 In-Reply-To: David Greenman "Re: ISP Marketing Statistics" (May 18, 4:58pm) References: <199805182358.QAA09093@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: dg@root.com Subject: Re: ISP Marketing Statistics Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 18, 4:58pm, David Greenman wrote: > Subject: Re: ISP Marketing Statistics > >interested in. Present estimates put the FreeBSD installed base somewhere > >between 750,000 and 1,000,000,000 users. > > I would truely be impressed if the FreeBSD userbase was anywhere near > 1 billion. :-) > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project >-- End of excerpt from David Greenman Err, must have been thinking of my checkbook balance ;-) My enthusiasm cup indeed overfloweth. Thanks for the correction. Regards, Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 17:46:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25273 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25144 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:45:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA00250 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:44:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:44:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor Reply-To: Brett Taylor To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: screenshots updated Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I've updated the screenshots web page. There's lots more screenshots available. Originally there was talk of doing this to pick a few shots to put on www.freebsd.org. However, I haven't heard anyone talk about this in a long while. Do people still think it's a good idea or has that gone out the window? If people DO think it's a good idea, email me and I'll set up a voting system on the web page and we can vote and choose one to put up. The page is at: http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/screenshots.html Brett ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ But Master, does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? - Beavis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 18:11:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00870 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:11:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00496; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06586; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:09:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake cc: Atipa , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, postmaster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 May 1998 08:02:47 +1000." <19980519080247.08529@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:09:03 -0700 Message-ID: <6582.895540143@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is anyone else getting fed up with reading every damn message of a thread > twice, once in -chat and once in -advocacy? Maybe we should put a basic Me, and it's my #1 pet peeve. Last I talked with Jonathan, he said he had a simple hack which would collapse cross-posts to known freebsd lists into one (probably the first), but I haven't heard anything back about that lately. Jon? :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 18:17:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01700 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (V9BqxIgzYMq3zbT0FcdZvgGtTxn+u51J@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01558 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id UAA18401; Mon, 18 May 1998 20:14:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01222; Mon, 18 May 1998 20:13:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:13:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: Open Systems Networking cc: Atipa , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 18 May 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: [snip] >installed on new PC's other than windows. Thats where the root of this >starts I think. It's a deadlock. You cant win. Most people buy their PC's >from dell or compaq, or HP. Ask any of them if they can install something >other than windows. Do you hear them laughing at you? >I already made this point clear to my AG. This entire thing is so retarded >its not even funny. Don't you realize that it is in Dell's and Compaq's interests to cooperate with M$ -- they're sucking on the front teat. You can still be free. Don't buy or recommend their crap. You pay for M$ every time you buy one of their products. Truth is, I'm deeply suspicious of this whole M$ anti-trust business since M$ was one of the first to get in bed with the government on the key escrow efforts -- and the government has "standardized" on M$. I think the whole thing is a shill. -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 18:17:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01707 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01607 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06621; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:16:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Frank Pawlak" cc: kerri@vfi.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISP Marketing Statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 May 1998 22:16:30 -0000." <980518221630.ZM2291@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:16:15 -0700 Message-ID: <6617.895540575@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > us that make FreeBSD a better server platform. One major difference is that > FreeBSD is developed and released under a closed development model, vs the op Actually, just to correct a slight misconception here, it's not really correct to say that FreeBSD's development model is "closed" - a better description might be "tightly organized." New developers can (and do) volunteer their services all the time and, after a suitable vetting period, are given free access to incorporate their improvements to FreeBSD - there are over 120 such people at last count. What the FreeBSD project does is take responsiblity for the whole system and its bundled applications, not just the kernel, and ensures that the changes people make are correct through an ongoing peer-review process. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 18:50:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07449 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07109 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:48:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05784; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:05:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805190105.SAA05784@rah.star-gate.com> To: Sue Blake cc: Atipa , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 May 1998 08:02:47 +1000." <19980519080247.08529@welearn.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5781.895539914.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:05:14 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just read up on your mail delivery or mail reader for I think most of them have a feature to delete duplicat mail messages. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 19:07:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10846 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:07:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10770 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06676; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:38:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Atipa cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 May 1998 12:02:55 MDT." Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:38:26 -0700 Message-ID: <6671.895541906@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I know I am going out on a limbe here, but I do not think the Justice > Department should make any decisions on the software industry, and I think > Microsoft should be allowed to ship whatever the hell it wants. I agree totally. The people who are so enthusiastically rah-rah-rahing about the idea of the Justice dept. pissing in Microsoft's breakfast cereal by successfully arguing that including a browser with an OS constitutes some sort of anti-trust violation are, not to put too fine a point on it, being complete idiots. By endorsing such a precedent, they are essentially building the government a legal assault weapon, aiming it at part of the software industry and then naively assuming that it won't be turned in their direction once it's done shooting at Microsoft. We're already in a hell of our own making over the issue of software patents (we asked for these laws, the goverment said yes, now we've screwed ourselves) and some people would now like to essentially say that the U.S. government, those wonderfully intelligent people who brought us export restrictions on cryptographic software which can be printed on a T-shirt and walked out of the country, should judge just which features a programmer can and cannot put into his or her OS. Frankly, putting IE into Win95 was the next logical step for Microsoft to make and I applaud Bill for having the guts to give the government the finger on this one. This government has no business saying what Microsoft can or cannot put into its software products and they have no business saying what can go into MY products either. I'm at least smart enough to see that I can't argue for my freedom and deny Microsoft's without becoming a complete hypocrite in the process. Think about it, folks. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 19:14:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12146 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12065 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:13:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-07.aei.ca [206.186.204.157]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05933; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3560EA9D.AB89261A@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:12:45 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: Atipa , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... References: <19980519080247.08529@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sue Blake wrote: > On Mon, May 18, 1998 at 12:02:55PM -0600, Atipa wrote: > > > > > > > > I know I am going out on a limbe here, but I do not think the Justice > > Department should make any decisions on the software industry, and I think > > Microsoft should be allowed to ship whatever the hell it wants. > > I fail to see what on earth miscellaneous causes have got to do with > FreeBSD advocacy, but my real beef is the cross posting. > > Is anyone else getting fed up with reading every damn message of a thread > twice, once in -chat and once in -advocacy? Maybe we should put a basic > email tutorial on the CDs which has to be successfully completed before > the installation will work :-) > When you install OS/2 or Win95, there is explanation, publicities, who appear when the OS's copied on the Hard Disk.Maybe we can put basic tutorial on how to ask a question, where, what subject to put, what IRC channels are available. Etc... Malartre > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 19:36:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15647 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:36:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jaguar.ir.miami.edu (jaguar.ir.miami.edu [129.171.32.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15541 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:36:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcus@miami.edu) Received: from localhost by jaguar.ir.miami.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #24029) with SMTP id <0ET600C01N8D5S@jaguar.ir.miami.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:36:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-reply-to: To: Atipa Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quite wll said, and I avidly dislike Microsoft. Freedom is core to our country, and our way of life. Capitalism is a way to express that freedom. I do not think the issue at hand here _is_ the quality of Win98. I've seen it....we've all seen it in Comdex. It's not all that good. In fact, it's rushed and, to quote Microsoft, it's "mostly good." The issue at hand is how far can a corporation go and still preserve the freedom we charish. Should Gates be allowed to assasinate CEOs of competiting companies? Of course not. I'm not saying he is, don't get me wrong. But he is doing a kind of corporate assasination He is forcing companies to give the people what _he_ wants us to have. Do we really want Win98? No. What do we want? That's for us to decide. Gates is not letting us do that. Sure, YOU and I do that. We choose FreeBSD. People who don't know better, can't get the information we have access to becuase PC retailers aren't allowed to tell then about it. They can only bundle Winodws with their computers...or only NOT Windows. This is corporate suicide. Your statements are correct. Microsoft should not be forced to distribute Netscape or any other browser with Win98. That is stupid. And as for making the browser part of the OS, I think CEOs of companies who read the Wall Street Journal to find out what to buy will see Explorer in the OS as a security concern. They don't know any better. How will they be able to deliniate where their computer ends and the Internet begins? How can they know their data is safe? I think people are starting to come around and realize that Windows is a scam. But, you're right, they should reach that conclusion on without the DOJ...and without Gates force-feeding them. Someone needs to open the window in the PC market. I think the free OS revolution is the solution. Joe Clarke On Mon, 18 May 1998, Atipa wrote: > > > > I know I am going out on a limbe here, but I do not think the Justice > Department should make any decisions on the software industry, and I think > Microsoft should be allowed to ship whatever the hell it wants. > > We are told that this is a free, capitalistic country, but now they want > to say it is just sort-of capitalistic? That you can make all the money > you want, until you make too much? What kind of crap is that? > > I belive in economic Darwinism; that is to say, good products flourish and > poor products wilt away. The consumer ultimately decides what sells and > what doesn't, and not the providers. If Win98 stinks, I hope it dies and > forces MS to make better products. But who am I to say what they should or > should not try to do? > > Adding insult to this whole situation are the demands of the US > Government. Now these are plain silly, and I applaud Bill Gates for > telling them where to go with their suggesions: > > * That Microsoft disable their browser, and _all_available_means > of accessing it. This is _almost_ reasonable, but I can > understand the common vision of PC's as extensions to the > Internet. To make a browser part of an OS seems like a really > cool idea to me. Now I do agree 100% that other browsers should > be able to operate in the new environment (eg, no MS booby traps > or proprietary mumbo jumbo to prevent competition) > > * If MS does include a browser, they must also provide all > competing products as well. Can you say horse? That is > entirely ludicrous. To paraphrase Bill Gates, "It is like having > to include 2 cans of Pepsi in every Coke six pack." Amen. > As I said, take off the restrictions and let the best product > win. As consumers, _WE_ are the ones getting hosed in this > ordeal, not Microsoft. > > * MS must modify their "Window Manager" so that OEMs and > competitors can customize their visual. How would all the > developers of FreeBSD feel if I took a FreeBSD release, changed > the GUI a bit, and called it AtipaOS? You would feel smited. > Also, the continuity of the UI is the only thing that makes > supporting this crap OS possible. If everyone had their own > interface, providers would have a bear of a time giving > accurate, detailed instructions. > > We must take a stand, and tell the Justice Deptartment to bugger off. They > do not understand the software industry, they are setting a horrible > precendent, and depriving the American people of free choice. > > They are ruining a good, competitive environment by degrading the efforts > of the front runner, instead of promoting the laggers. We are all losing > out. > > The issue to me is not whether or not Win98 is good or bad, the issue is > freedom. I support Bill Gates in this issue, and hope you will as well. > Hopefully, this product will fail all on its own, and open the doors to > good programmers all over the world, without US ecomonic intervention. > > I hope you all can see through this junk. Liberty must be preserved. Let > the best products win, and let MS die on its own two feet. > > Kevin > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 21:21:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00448 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00421 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:20:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 2496 invoked from network); 19 May 1998 04:14:27 -0000 Received: from ip84.san-francisco23.ca.pub-ip.psi.net (HELO scam.xcf.berkeley.edu) (38.28.61.84) by scam.xcf.berkeley.edu with SMTP; 19 May 1998 04:14:27 -0000 Message-ID: <35610646.7A8B5979@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:10:46 -0700 From: Jason Nordwick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Why slashdot does not post BSD articles. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Overall positive, but I think slightly misguided. His comments about not getting articles is bogus, I send them all the time. And if you have seen slashdot, alot of irrelevant crap is posted there all the time, so I dont buy that he only posts a select few... my guess is that he himself is just not interested, which is cool, but I wish he would just say that... People aren't going to get on his case for that (at least I hope not). Taken from Slashdot.org: Probably because since 50% of the readers use Linux, only .01% of the submissions involve FreeBSD. I occasionally post other stuff, but if people don't send it, I don't post it. And even so, I still pick a dozen a day, and if it isn't interesting I won't post it (no matter what OS) and let's face it- more happens in a week in the Linux world than happens in the 'other free os world' in a week- that's not a comment about the quality of any of the other systems, but rather a comment about the amazing growth that the Linux world has experienced in the last ye Jay -- 4.4 > 95 http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 18 21:30:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09294 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:59:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09047 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:57:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-07.aei.ca [206.186.204.157]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04003 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3560E6F6.B3A55124@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:57:11 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: FreeBSD Logo - Français] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In this mail, I have writed in french to BeOS to ask them to put our FreeBSD logo on the page. Good news in the reply! In general, I have explained the classical arguments: we are free and we need some support to survive in a capitalist world. She will talk to the webmaster and she suggest than its a good idea. Maybe it should be an idea -if they forgot us- to be more to e-mail them ;-) Cya Malartre Melanie Walker wrote: > >Bonjour, > > j'ai lu que vous parliez français. Autant en profiter :-) > > > >La présente lettre est du au fait que -à ce que j'ai lu-, vous utilisez > >FreeBSD comme système d'opération pour votre page web. Au nom de la > >communauté FreeBSD, pouriez-vous mettre le logo de FreeBSD sur votre > >page principale et/ou écrire un petit article sur "Pourquoi nous avons > >choisie FreeBSD"? Nous avons plusieurs entreprise qui ont fait de même, > >tel que "Yahoo!". Ce serait une aide appréciable, spécialement parce que > >FreeBSD est gratuit et qu'il a besoin de ce support pour faire face à > >ces concurents dans un monde capitaliste. > > > >Merci au nom de la communauté > > > >Malartre > > > >Pour des logos: > >http://www.freebsd.org/gallery.html > >Peut-être aurons-nous un jour les codes sources de BeOS? :-) > >-- > >-------------------------------------------------- > >malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > >www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project > >Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 > >-------------------------------------------------- > > Merci bien de nous avoir écrit! > > (Bien que j'ai compris ce que vous avez ecrit, je vous prie de m'excuser > car je sais que je fais des fautes en français.) > > Je suis d'accord qu'il faut mettre le logo de FreeBSD sur notre page > principale. Je parlerai avec notre <>. > > Merci! > > Melanie > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Melanie Walker Be, Inc. > Web Diva http://www.be.com > melanie@be.com -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 00:53:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12694 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:53:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12645 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id DAA59252 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 03:53:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 03:57:03 -0400 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Perhaps advocacy should be called something else Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It occurs to me that in the land of usenet, a comp.sys.*.advocacy newsgroup is meant to be the place to discuss rambling topics, intense personal opinions, and the such-like. Many threads which are sent to any comp.sys.*.advocacy newsgroup are sent to all of them, to ensure the signal-to-noise ratio is close to zero. Perhaps the freebsd-advocacy list should be renamed to something else, to avoid association with that kind of advocacy newsgroup... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 08:26:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06079 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smgmail.smginc.com ([204.170.177.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06060 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com (204.170.177.4 [204.170.177.4]) by smgmail.smginc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id K030RKVY; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:26:15 -0400 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <3561BF62@smginc.com>; Tue, 19 May 98 10:20:34 PDT From: Adam Turoff To: "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Petreley's May NC editorial Date: Wed, 13 May 98 12:11:00 PDT Message-ID: <3561BF62@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.ncworldmag.com/ncworld/ncw-05-1998/ncw-05-nextten.html Someone got on Nick Petreley's good side. This month's "Next Ten Minutes" is yet another rant against NT, and the first Open Source OS mentioned is FreeBSD. :-) Any workstation running any version of Unix that supports X11R6, including anything from an UltraSPARC running Solaris to a 386 PC running FreeBSD Sure, it's depicting FreeBSD as a "lowly OS" but it's in the context of all the myriad ways a *NIX box can be administered remotely without a zero administration kit, from a VT100, to a Win95 box with Telnet to a lowly 386 FreeBSD running X. Linux is mentioned later in the article. No news here, but it's a good bit of mention in the press. -- Adam. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 09:21:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18371 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:21:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18323 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:21:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03192; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805191621.JAA03192@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Atipa , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 May 1998 18:38:26 PDT." <6671.895541906@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:21:28 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, you guys ought to sign up with the www.moral-defense.org thats a web page collecting signatures defending microsoft. The alleged purpose of the Antitrust laws was to protect competition; that purpose was based on the socialistic fallacy that a free, unregulated market will inevitably lead to the establishment of coercive monopolies. But, in fact, no coercive monopoly has ever been or ever can be established by means of free trade on a free market. Every coercive monopoly was created by government intervention into the economy: by special privileges, such as franchises or subsidies, which closed the entry of competitors into a given field, by legislative action. (For a full demonstration of this fact, I refer you to the works of the best economists.) The Antitrust laws were the classic example of a moral inversion prevalent in the history: an example of the victims, the businessmen, taking the blame for the evils caused by government, and the government using its own guilt as a justification for acquiring wider powers, on the pretext of "correcting" the evils. AYN RAND Now all we need is a web site for against microsoft and we are all set for public debate and the impact of the Internet on politics . I sort of started the pro DOJ cyber thingie by requesting folks to mail to the DOJ and their local State Attorney General . http://www.moral-defense.org ups the ante by way of possibly having a much greater audience and keeping a log of the proponents for its cause. Yes, you can make a difference ! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 09:57:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25836 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:57:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25792 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:57:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA03465; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:55:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-Reply-To: <19980519080247.08529@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > Is anyone else getting fed up with reading every damn message of a thread > twice, once in -chat and once in -advocacy? Use procmail to sort your mail and in your procmailrc file add: # Cleanout duplicates :0 Wh: msgid.lock | formail -D 32767 msgid.cache Brett ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 10:53:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06663 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:53:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06635 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:53:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12946 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:53:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Interesting... I didn't even know about this. Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:53:29 -0700 Message-ID: <12943.895600409@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: lymond@peaknet.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Is there a freebsd giveaway like linux has? Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:02:29 GMT Can anyone here inform me as to whether there is a list of freebsd users willing to send/lend/or give help with freebsd, the way linux has set up at: http://visar.csustan.edu:8000/giveaway_list.txt Thanks. (Please email to me as well as post, my newsreader is dicey lately) -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 11:10:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09247 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09207; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:10:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199805191810.LAA09207@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-Reply-To: <199805191621.JAA03192@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "May 19, 98 09:21:28 am" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd@atipa.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please move this to -chat. its not within the charter of -advocacy. FREEBSD-ADVOCACY Furthering the Use of FreeBSD Share ideas and plan to increase the number of companies and individuals using FreeBSD jmb Amancio Hasty wrote: > Well, you guys ought to sign up with the www.moral-defense.org thats > a web page collecting signatures defending microsoft. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 11:32:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13498 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ringworld.uniscape.com ([207.245.48.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA13377 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:31:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefanos@ringworld.uniscape.com) Received: from traveler by ringworld.uniscape.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA21566; Tue, 19 May 98 14:40:59 -0400 Message-Id: <9805191840.AA21566@ringworld.uniscape.com> Received: by traveler.uniscape.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA01850; Tue, 19 May 98 14:40:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 2.0b5) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Stefanos Kiakas Date: Tue, 19 May 98 14:40:49 -0400 To: Atipa Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: stefanos@ringworld.uniscape.com References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA13388 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You wrote: > > > We must take a stand, and tell the Justice Deptartment to bugger off. They > do not understand the software industry, they are setting a horrible > precendent, and depriving the American people of free choice. > The software industry is no different than any other industry, there are laws that must be obeyed. The only one depriving American people of a choice is Microsoft. > They are ruining a good, competitive environment by degrading the efforts > of the front runner, instead of promoting the laggers. We are all losing > out. The environment for an OS on PC is not competitive. Try buying a computer from the major manufactures without Win9X/WinNT installed. If it was really competitive you'd have a choice. > > The issue to me is not whether or not Win98 is good or bad, the issue is > freedom. I support Bill Gates in this issue, and hope you will as well. > Hopefully, this product will fail all on its own, and open the doors to > good programmers all over the world, without US ecomonic intervention. Yes, people are free to do what they please as long as it does not interfere with other people's freedom. There are no absolute freedoms, to all freedom there is a limit. To paraphrase: My freedom ends where your freedom begins. > > I hope you all can see through this junk. Liberty must be preserved. Let > the best products win, and let MS die on its own two feet. > > Kevin > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefanos Kiakas stefanos@uniscape.com http://www.uniscape.com/ e-Scape Information Systems Inc. 514.878.1084 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 13:37:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08303 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:37:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07887 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:35:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04284; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:32:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:32:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Jason Nordwick cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why slashdot does not post BSD articles. In-Reply-To: <35610646.7A8B5979@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Taken from Slashdot.org: > Probably because since 50% of the readers use Linux, only .01% of the > submissions involve FreeBSD. I occasionally post other stuff, but if > people don't send it, I don't post it. As I believe Jordan said awhile back - slashdot is really only useful to watch for announcements and such. > let's face it- more happens in a week in the Linux world than happens in > the 'other free os world' in a week Then I wonder why less than half of the articles on slashdot are concerned w/ Linux. Today's selection is: Tech visas approved Linux Advocacy for Business POSIX on top of MacOS Feature:The Linux Standard Base System (or how to have more of a single distribution, like say FreeBSD) Ask Slashdot:Trouble After KDE Install Name the International Space Station RMS plugin clarification Charles Hines Leaves fvwm 2.x Project MagicSmoke Monday's Quickies (like interesting topics of the Telepathic Clapper) Brett ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 14:30:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19646 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from huron.nvl.virginia.edu (adrian@mail.nvl.Virginia.EDU [128.143.244.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19520 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@nvl.virginia.edu) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by huron.nvl.virginia.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA19584 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 17:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:29:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-Reply-To: <9805191840.AA21566@ringworld.uniscape.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You wrote: > > > > > > We must take a stand, and tell the Justice Deptartment to bugger off. They > > do not understand the software industry, they are setting a horrible > > precendent, and depriving the American people of free choice. Ok, I've tried to stay away from this, but I cannot resist. I agree that MS should be able to choose the definion of its software packages, but likewise so should its resellers. Maybe they do not understand the software industry, but they do understand monopolies and unfair trade practices such as collusion and covert oligopolies. If going after microsoft on nits such as the explorer seems myopic and ill conceived, recall how many major organized criminals are caught in the U.S.: tax evasion. I don't think anyone disagrees that MS needs to be curbed to preserve free competition and the incentive to innovate. If viewed from this perspective, I say go for the jugular. MS has already lowered the consumers' expectations for software reliability so much that it is hard to convince people that there are mythical machines that work for days, weeks, months and even years without a single software failure. [BTW, I gree with one of the other posters: let's let this move to] [chat and stay more freebsd centric on our advocacy discussions. ] Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualization Lab ->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 15:18:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01065 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:18:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail3.mailsorter.net (mail3.mailsorter.net [207.67.128.12] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01015 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:18:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kriston@ibm.net) Received: from slip.dc.us.ibm.net ([204.148.99.154]) by mail3.mailsorter.net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA1442 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:17:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:17:23 -0400 Message-ID: <8195-Tue19May1998181723-0400-kriston@ibm.net> From: kriston@ibm.net (Kriston J. Rehberg) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-Reply-To: <19980519080247.08529@welearn.com.au> References: <19980519080247.08529@welearn.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Unfortunately, this Majordomo list server isn't configured to reply JUST to the list for whatever reason. L-Soft's Listserv is just so much better. Subscribers can digest any list they want into standard digest formats -- I wish I could digest up the -advocacy list because it's so busy. Not even the freebsd-hackers-digest list is distributed in an acceptable digest format. Why use Majordomo? *Sigh* Kris -- Kriston J. Rehberg AOL: Kriston http://kriston.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 19 18:03:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03018 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02847; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:02:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id SAA27907; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:02:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Amancio Hasty , jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd@atipa.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: .sig idea (WAS: Why we should support Microsoft...) In-Reply-To: <199805191810.LAA09207@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Exactly! This is Advocacy for FreeBSD, not a coupe against any other OS. And here is one idea for advocacy: we should all have some mentioning of FreeBSD in our .sig files. Word of the mouth, ya know? -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." On Tue, 19 May 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Please move this to -chat. > its not within the charter of -advocacy. > > >FREEBSD-ADVOCACY Furthering the Use of FreeBSD >Share ideas and plan to increase the number of companies and >individuals using FreeBSD > >jmb > >Amancio Hasty wrote: >> Well, you guys ought to sign up with the www.moral-defense.org thats >> a web page collecting signatures defending microsoft. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 20 12:53:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12332 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:53:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from huron.nvl.virginia.edu (adrian@huron.nvl.Virginia.EDU [128.143.244.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12256 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@nvl.virginia.edu) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by huron.nvl.virginia.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA01836; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:51:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Interesting... I didn't even know about this. In-Reply-To: <12943.895600409@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am intrigued by this post, but the page doesn't seem to be there, nor is the server. I have tried this URL a few times over the last few days with 100% failure. Could you describe a little about what it is supposed to be? thanks, Adrian On Tue, 19 May 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > From: lymond@peaknet.net > Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc > Subject: Is there a freebsd giveaway like linux has? > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:02:29 GMT > > Can anyone here inform me as to whether there is a list of freebsd users > willing to send/lend/or give help with freebsd, the way linux has set up at: > > http://visar.csustan.edu:8000/giveaway_list.txt > > Thanks. (Please email to me as well as post, my newsreader is dicey lately) > > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualization Lab ->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 21 15:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10317 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 15:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10193 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:59:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (zanak-1-10.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.93.10]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id QAA23587; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:59:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02765; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:59:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980521215931.ZM2764@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:59:31 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cory Kempf "Re: Corel Embraces Open Source" (May 21, 2:56pm) References: <19980521045827486.AAA247@mail.nordicdms.com> <199805211856.OAA20961@singularity.enigami.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Cory Kempf Subject: Re: Corel Embraces Open Source MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Moved to advocacy. I took the liberty to attach a previous post from amember of the core team that should provide the information you desire. Please post any followups to advocacy-freebsd@freebsd.org. Thanks. Frank On May 21, 2:56pm, Cory Kempf wrote: > Subject: Re: Corel Embraces Open Source > >Hey, check this out: > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/12187.html > > Also listed on Corel's home page. > -------------snip------------------------- > > So, my question (finally!): Are there any estimates to the number of > FreeBSD users / systems out there? If so, where? > > How do the BSD number stand up to Linux' numbers? > > What does the FreeBSD growth curve look like? > Linux started several years before 386BSD and nearly three years before FreeBSD. Prior to 386BSD, there wasn't a freeware version of BSD available. You had to pay $20K to AT&T for a 32V (?) source license. Linus started Linux because he wanted to hack on Unix and couldn't ("because I was a poor Finish college student"). If 386BSD had been released from Berkeley just two years earlier, Linux would never have happend (according to Linus). The timing here is important because the year-to-year growth of both Linux and FreeBSD are very similar; the difference is that Linux got started building their usership years before we did. >I have read in an article listed on BSDI's web page that they have >something like 7,000 customers running over 75,000 servers. We must have Current estimates for FreeBSD's installed base is more than 5 times that and may be as high as 10 times that figure. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > Thanks, > > +C > -- > > -- > Thinking of purchasing RAM from the Chip Merchant? Please read this first: > > Cory Kempf Macintosh / Unix Consulting & Software Development > ckempf@enigami.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Cory Kempf To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 21 18:21:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21732 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:21:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from saten.dyn.ml.org (062.ppp5.gulftel.com [208.222.59.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21675 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:21:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from advocacy@saten.dyn.ml.org) Received: from localhost (advocacy@localhost) by saten.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01160 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:18:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:18:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Phillip Salzman To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A website. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In order to attract companys and other users to switch their systems over to FreeBSD, we need someone to lead the way. Something like slashdot.org, but in a more 'corporate' manner. This would be an unofficial freebsd site, one that bases itself off of news, tech, and interactivity with the users of FreeBSD. A site in which people will goto to find out about the latest happenings in the world of BSD, and a site that focuses its attention on FreeBSD as the flagship. Something that promotes FreeBSD as a desktop OS and a server one. A serious looking site that attempts to get software makers to port their products. Anyone wish to help upon this task? (i'm not sure if I have clearly described what I am talking about) -- Phillip Salzman eclipse@gulf.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 21 19:12:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01317 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:12:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01204 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:12:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrG-01.aei.ca [206.186.205.51]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA15915; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3564DEC8.780EEAEF@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:11:20 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phillip Salzman CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A website. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Phillip Salzman wrote: > In order to attract companys and other users to switch > their systems over to FreeBSD, we need someone to lead > the way. > > Something like slashdot.org, but in a more 'corporate' > manner. This would be an unofficial freebsd site, one that > bases itself off of news, tech, and interactivity with the > users of FreeBSD. A site in which people will goto to > find out about the latest happenings in the world of BSD, and > a site that focuses its attention on FreeBSD as the flagship. > > Something that promotes FreeBSD as a desktop OS and a server > one. A serious looking site that attempts to get software > makers to port their products. > > Anyone wish to help upon this task? > > (i'm not sure if I have clearly described what I am > talking about) > -- > Phillip Salzman > eclipse@gulf.net What appen to bsdweek.org? Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 21 21:35:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27314 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:35:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27267; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:35:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (minbar-2-31.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.135.159]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.8) id XAA25329; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:34:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03628; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:34:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980522043451.ZM3627@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 04:34:51 +0000 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD A Solution For Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Volunteers needed!!! Note Please post all responses to advocacy!!!!! I am proposing an advocacy project to produce a document that will have several uses. First, marketing FreeBSD. The finished product will be aimed at product managers in the commercial software development world with the intent of raising the visability of FreeBSD and presenting reasons to look at FreeBSD as a solid development platform. Second, publication. This document could serve as a kick start bases for magazine articles aimed at business professionals that make decisions as to what gets included as a strategic platform in their IS shops. I would suggest that we take the high road in doing this, and not make it a BSD vs Linux gun fight. We should do it with the idea in mind that any OS other than FreeBSD is a competitor, but sell FreeBSD only on its' own merits. In other words we are a class act. There are any number of ways that we can approach this project. Jordan has made the suggestion that each volunteer produce a document of their own and then we can pick the 4 or 5 best and blend them into the final product. I think this is a good suggestion and a workable idea. However, I would like to propose a counter idea to this, that would more readily leverage the collective knowledge base and reduce the work load of each volunteer in producing a final document. My thinking in this is that some people can write, others write extremely well others have deep technical knowledge of FreeBSD. If we could combine all individual areas of expertise into one common working document we maybe able to reach our goals faster and easier. This could be facilitated using a cut and paste method by a document maintainer - me, I have the Excedren bottle near by ;-) To that end I have below a rough outline of document content to start off this effort, subject to group revision and approval. FreeBSD A Solution For Business Executive Summary a) Why develop or port to an open source operating system b) Advantages of using an open source OS from a competitive perspective c) What makes FreeBSD the open source operating system of choice i) The FreeBSD pedigree ii) The importance of the FreeBSD development and release model iii) Technical qualities of FreeBSD (over all product quality issues) Stability Speed Scalability - solid, steady performance under heavy loads iv) Why FreeBSD is am excellent development platform d) The impact of open sources licensing on commercial development i) Advantages of the Berkeley License e) Future direction of the FreeBSD project f) Where is FreeBSD being used Where do I stand on all of this? No question I very much need help on the technical side of the issues, my UNIX experience is short and technical skills weak. I can do word smithing and contribute ideas, and am willing to commit the time and effort to coordinate the project. I am sure there will be other areas where I can contribute as this get further defined and work progresses. Let me know what you think of this idea and of any revisions that you think necessary. Thanks in advance. Frank Pawlak To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 21 22:26:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA06563 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06548 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:26:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-216.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.216]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA76698; Fri, 22 May 1998 05:26:10 GMT Message-ID: <35650C23.428EDD6@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:24:51 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phillip Salzman CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A website. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Talk to Dan @ Ten26.com. He has started the ball rolling with www.bsdweek.com, but he needs some encouragement (i.e. articles). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 21 23:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20935 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:41:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20859 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:40:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (localhost.softweyr.com [127.0.0.1]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01438; Fri, 22 May 1998 00:36:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <35651CE1.9F45FA3E@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:36:17 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business References: <980522043451.ZM3627@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank Pawlak wrote: > > FreeBSD > > A Solution For Business > > Executive Summary > > a) Why develop or port to an open source operating system > > b) Advantages of using an open source OS from a competitive perspective > > c) What makes FreeBSD the open source operating system of choice > > i) The FreeBSD pedigree > > ii) The importance of the FreeBSD development and release model > > iii) Technical qualities of FreeBSD (over all product quality issues) > > Stability > > Speed > > Scalability - solid, steady performance under heavy loads > > iv) Why FreeBSD is am excellent development platform > > d) The impact of open sources licensing on commercial development > > i) Advantages of the Berkeley License > > e) Future direction of the FreeBSD project > > f) Where is FreeBSD being used > > Where do I stand on all of this? No question I very much need help on the > technical side of the issues, my UNIX experience is short and technical skills > weak. I can do word smithing and contribute ideas, and am willing to commit > the time and effort to coordinate the project. I am sure there will be other > areas where I can contribute as this get further defined and work progresses. An excellent idea. What you are proposing is essentially a "White Paper" on commercial uses for FreeBSD, and should be a standard part of the "Press Kit." I can contribute some information on the Software Configuration Management servers I've setup using FreeBSD, at Philips Digital Video Systems and Intel. Both systems are running fine; the Philips DVS has been in use for over 2 years now. I can make contributions to items b, c, d, and f in your outline above. If you want me to just start pounding out some text, let me know and I'll go to it. I hope your editing skills are up to par, though. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 00:09:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24260 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 00:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA24244 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 00:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 27170 invoked from network); 22 May 1998 07:11:11 -0000 Received: from ip226.san-francisco23.ca.pub-ip.psi.net (HELO scam.xcf.berkeley.edu) (38.28.61.226) by scam.xcf.berkeley.edu with SMTP; 22 May 1998 07:11:11 -0000 Message-ID: <35652454.1EBB3FFC@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:08:04 -0700 From: Jason Nordwick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business References: <980522043451.ZM3627@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have an idea. Frank Pawlak wrote: > > I am proposing an advocacy project to produce a document that will have several > uses. > Don't propose, just do... things that get "proposed" here tend to go into the circular cabinent labeled "pending" Jay -- 4.4 > 95 http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 06:28:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18789 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:28:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA18545; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:26:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-1-252.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.252]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id GAA23866; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "Frank Pawlak" , , , Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:12:55 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd8583$55a61680$fc01aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD A Solution For Business >Volunteers needed!!! > >Note Please post all responses to advocacy!!!!! >First, marketing FreeBSD. The finished product will be aimed at product >managers in the commercial software development world with the intent of >raising the visability of FreeBSD and presenting reasons to look at FreeBSD as >a solid development platform. if some salesmen in suites take them to lunch, maybe they'll listen. >Second, publication. This document could serve as a kick start bases for >magazine articles aimed at business professionals that make decisions as to >what gets included as a strategic platform in their IS shops. FreeBSD certainly gets better press overseas. >There are any number of ways that we can approach this project. Jordan has >made the suggestion that each volunteer produce a document of their own and >then we can pick the 4 or 5 best and blend them into the final product. I >using a cut and paste method by a document maintainer - me, I have the Excedren >bottle near by ;-) :-) > FreeBSD > > A Solution For Business not. >Executive Summary > > >a) Why develop or port to an open source operating system buying packages is much easier. >b) Advantages of using an open source OS from a competitive perspective which? if you want to roll everything yourself, like Yahoo? >c) What makes FreeBSD the open source operating system of choice > > > i) The FreeBSD pedigree * > > ii) The importance of the FreeBSD development and release model * > > iii) Technical qualities of FreeBSD (over all product quality issues) * > > Stability * > > Speed * > > Scalability - solid, steady performance under heavy loads *** > > iv) Why FreeBSD is am excellent development platform > >d) The impact of open sources licensing on commercial development > > i) Advantages of the Berkeley License > > >e) Future direction of the FreeBSD project > >f) Where is FreeBSD being used this might be first. >Where do I stand on all of this? No question I very much need help on the >technical side of the issues, my UNIX experience is short and technical skills >weak. I can do word smithing and contribute ideas, and am willing to commit >the time and effort to coordinate the project. I am sure there will be other >areas where I can contribute as this get further defined and work progresses. so why do you like FreeBSD? -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 06:40:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21699 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21514; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:39:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-1-252.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.252]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id GAA26923; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:36:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "Jason" Cc: , , , , Subject: Why we should not support Microsoft. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:30:46 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd8585$d3ae4500$fc01aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jason >>Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 4:58 PM >> >>>I am willing to bet that if you told a PC seller what you wanted...i.e. >>>partition/software wise....they will get it for you....if not then you are >>>in the wrong place. In the computer selling business "solutions" is the >>>name of the game. He who has the solutions and makes customers happy wins >>>in the end! you want to do this for real? it probably violates my non-compete agreement with WC. i was the marketing bunny that this list thought was a droid. i put most of the companies money into marketing FreeBSD. now it's their best product. but you still have 0.01 market share. in offices, MS has 100%. is there a version in frys? duh, no. duh? OS/2 is in there. who thinks OS/2 has any market share in the office market? Apple? BSDI? FreeBSD, Inc needs a business plan and mission statement. Who are the shareholders? Jordan Hubbard, Justin Gibbs, David Greenman. Jordan is president. Justin is a microsofty. what are their salaries? are the finances of freebsd, inc public? lightpath, lptha, ceo went from $40 to $150 their marketing ipo. pricing: $39.95 - very limited support 139.95 - some support and free stuff. 789.95 - 24 hr, international support that's very good. /year. on site with expenses paid. 100M x 3 = 30,000,00 x 3 90000 $50M $50M/ and 100M is low -- MS is in chinese offices too. there are about 5B people on the world, and probably half of them will want a computer. *everything* else is free. except tshirts and books. and fancy ap's. 3% office market share is an easy goal. (Apple.) the other company with 0% market share that once owned Unix is Corel, michael copeland, Canada. their market cap went from nothing to by some values (other companies write offs) huge and back almost to nothing. (?50M) I propose devising some metrics for measuring contribution and then applying them to the maillists and source code and then making the creators and maintainers shareholders equal to their contribution, with some float from other people that want to give them their money. 50/50. the more metrics the better. then fractal average them. See, i think FreeBSD is vastly better than Windows or Macintosh, but it sure doesn't have market muscle behind it. FreeBSD has the pure heritage of Unix. but !weird people and almost no secretaries. I think chuckie should get a sister and she should be the mascot. Sandy K. what about a DPO for $5M, then IPO for $30M? $30M buys some lawyers and advertising. worth $400M, at least. the DPO is also 50/50 -- equity measured in dollars and other contribution. as long as one ap doesn't run on your system, you'll have 0% of the office market. so either the shim into the OS has to be PD or the whole OS. the UI and OS should be separate. FreeBSD is a vastly superior OS. the UI is ok, too, but the ap's don't run. i do not think windows 95 UI is as good as X. nationalizing it would force Bill Gates to restate earnings, almost no matter which way he cuts the company in two. short msft. or sell calls. >>i was throw out of CompUSA by the assistant sales manager and the guard >>because >>i wanted to test my application (for sale in the store) on the computer i >>wanted >>to buy (for sale in the store.) this was albequere, but who cares? the real manager was unfriendly also. only the security guard was nice. i wouldn't buy compusa stock. whatever. >I live in Michigan...but if someone treated me that way then they don't need >my business. There are millions of small computer shops that will make any >PC you want the way you want it and will almost always be cheaper then the >big stores. CompUSA, Best Buy and others like those are not the only >places to get PCs. And against popular opinion Packard Bell is NOT the only >computer to get :) this isn't what business thinks. -jack if you don't have rice, what good are megabits? resume upon request. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 09:28:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17717 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:28:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17696 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:28:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA13471; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:28:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <355C309C.10A44864@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:28:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: Stuart Henderson Subject: Re: Yahoo! Cc: FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@root.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA17697 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15-May-98 Stuart Henderson wisely wrote: > David Greenman wrote: >> >> >Why not asking Yahoo to put a little link, on the first page "Why >> >Yahoo is so fast" or simply "FreeBSD" >> >Am I asking the impossible or can we do that? >> >> We've asked. Many times. > > they managed one for NetApp :-( > They also give great discounts for it. I have tried to do the same at work and I immediately get asked "why, what do we get out of it?" Nicole Catching up on her e-mail nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 09:46:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22231 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:46:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22196 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:46:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA13546 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:47:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Gigabit FreeBSD Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA22200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all I realize that this is only about 1/2 advocacy, but... I have been playing with a Packet Engines Gigabit Ethernet hub and ethernet ca rds that have drivers for FreeBSD. (third party) I want to write up an article/p aper on my testing highlighting FreeBSD. So far I have tested transfering files via mv and ftping, (so far I have reached 15.6MB/s via ncftp) and I have planned some NFS tests. However I would like to know what tests would best show off Fr eeBSD and the Gigbit ethernet. I think that this writeup could help a great deal in showing FreeBSD as a Real World, we can play with the Big Toys OS. However I would like to know what tests would best show off FreeBSD and the Gigbit ethernet. You can find the equipment at www.packetengines.com All sugestions welcome Thanks Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 09:49:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22744 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:49:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22736 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA13579; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:50:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <35650C23.428EDD6@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:50:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: Don Wilde Subject: Re: A website. Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Phillip Salzman Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA22737 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-May-98 Don Wilde wisely wrote: > Talk to Dan @ Ten26.com. He has started the ball rolling with > www.bsdweek.com, but he needs some encouragement (i.e. articles). > I get "host name not found" :< Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 09:58:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23998 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:58:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23921 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA13628; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:59:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:59:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: Phillip Salzman Subject: RE: A website. Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA23934 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-May-98 Phillip Salzman wisely wrote: > > In order to attract companys and other users to switch > their systems over to FreeBSD, we need someone to lead > the way. > > Something like slashdot.org, but in a more 'corporate' > manner. This would be an unofficial freebsd site, one that > bases itself off of news, tech, and interactivity with the > users of FreeBSD. A site in which people will goto to > find out about the latest happenings in the world of BSD, and > a site that focuses its attention on FreeBSD as the flagship. > > Something that promotes FreeBSD as a desktop OS and a server > one. A serious looking site that attempts to get software > makers to port their products. > > Anyone wish to help upon this task? > > (i'm not sure if I have clearly described what I am > talking about) > -- Joe Grosch has an idea for a site that he plans to put up on www.freebsd-suppor t.com. I hope to add things to this site as well. I am sure that anything you would be willing to offer would be welcome Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 10:03:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25454 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misfit.users.xmission.com (misfit.users.xmission.com [207.135.128.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25418 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:03:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from misfit@misfit.users.xmission.com) Received: (from misfit@localhost) by misfit.users.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA02288; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:03:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from misfit) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD, Inc. stock Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) Date: 22 May 1998 11:03:45 -0600 Message-ID: <87ogwq1bm6.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Lines: 5 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone know the symbol for FreeBSD, Inc.'s position on the stock market or if any such thing even exists? -- Anthony C. Chavez To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 10:35:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03671 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03654; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:35:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tera.tera.com) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.224.230.127]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23009; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:35:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA20206; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805221734.KAA20206@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-Reply-To: <980522043451.ZM3627@darkstar.connect.com> from Frank Pawlak at "May 22, 98 04:34:51 am" To: fpawlak@execpc.com (Frank Pawlak) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Frank Pawlak: > Volunteers needed!!! > > First, marketing FreeBSD. The finished product will be aimed at product > managers in the commercial software development world with the intent of > raising the visability of FreeBSD and presenting reasons to look at FreeBSD as > a solid development platform. You've been an economist for decades, Frank. Your savvy would fit in well here. > > Second, publication. This document could serve as a kick start bases for > magazine articles aimed at business professionals that make decisions as to > what gets included as a strategic platform in their IS shops. > > I would suggest that we take the high road in doing this, and not make it a BSD > vs Linux gun fight. We should do it with the idea in mind that any OS other > than FreeBSD is a competitor, but sell FreeBSD only on its' own merits. In > other words we are a class act. Agree. Not only (not)FBSD against Linux, but similar not opposed to MS or Apple or the other BSD. A major plus on FBSD's side is that, given our compat library suites we work with virtually all the other flavors of Unix: Linux, SCO, BSDi. And plugging in a Win* emu-port (e.g. WINE) even Windows apps should run. (( It occured to me yesterday that most non-business consumers would ask, "Can this pre-configured FreeBSD run my kiddie's CD educational app for Windows??" Prob'ly not. But this may be a strength for corporations who buy workstation computers to enhance their people-power. The productivity of their workforce. Given that a pre-configured system could be accomplished, it would have all the applications necessary to help workers get their jobs done. It would have exceptional networking. It would not be laden with games, toys, diversions. )) > > There are any number of ways that we can approach this project. Jordan has > made the suggestion that each volunteer produce a document of their own and > then we can pick the 4 or 5 best and blend them into the final product. I > think this is a good suggestion and a workable idea. However, I would like to > propose a counter idea to this, that would more readily leverage the collective > knowledge base and reduce the work load of each volunteer in producing a final > document. My thinking in this is that some people can write, others write > extremely well others have deep technical knowledge of FreeBSD. If we could > combine all individual areas of expertise into one common working document we > maybe able to reach our goals faster and easier. This could be facilitated > using a cut and paste method by a document maintainer - me, I have the Excedren > bottle near by ;-) > > To that end I have below a rough outline of document content to start off this > effort, subject to group revision and approval. > > [[ ... ]] Why don't you (or you and the `list') come up with, say, a dozen document topics for people to ponder? This may be the basis for a genuine enterprise. gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 10:46:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05372 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:46:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA05280; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:45:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA25880; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:27:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Jack Velte cc: Jason , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, davidg@root.com, gibbs@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-Reply-To: <01bd8585$d3ae4500$fc01aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 May 1998, Jack Velte wrote: > I think chuckie should get a sister and she should be the mascot. Sandy K. Man, I was just about to hit [Del] when I got here! Yes! YES! YES! I *like* it! Maybe we can even get her to star in a Disney movie. Now that would be marketing. ;-) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 11:08:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09121 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:08:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [140.174.82.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09027; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:07:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billy@idiom.com) Received: from localhost (billy@localhost) by idiom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA03084; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:07:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy Thompson To: Frank Pawlak cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-Reply-To: <980522043451.ZM3627@darkstar.connect.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think what is absolutely necessary to this would be a graph comparison between Win NT and FreeBSD. Start with a lite load then keep pushing it up until both systems are crawling. This would demostrate not only how reliable FreeBSD is on the SAME hardware, but also how much better it is (since I'm sure there will be obviously better performance from FreeBSD). Then plaster this on as many websites as you can and include it in the business solutions document. You know how much pointy haired bosses love graphs and charts, and this should show them in simple terms that FreeBSD has better preformance and is more reliable. -billy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 11:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14569 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14545 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-1-21.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.21]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id NAA02032 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:33:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04921 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:33:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980522183320.ZM4920@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:33:20 +0000 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: UNIX Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Some news on the positive front. A week or so ago I e-mail the editor of UNIX Review requesting more coverage of open source operating systems and FreeBSD in particular. Following is the latest development. Frank: We would like to publish your letter in our August issue. Could you please forward me your city and state, as well as your job title and place of employment (if relevant)? Thank you. Beatrice Springborn Editorial Assistant UNIX Review's Performance Computing To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 11:46:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17069 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17015 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-135.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.135]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA279330; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:46:16 GMT Message-ID: <3565C7AA.332A88AA@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:44:58 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Nordwick , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A website. References: <35650C23.428EDD6@ibm.net> <356541F9.9D9BFB5D@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Nordwick wrote: > > Don Wilde wrote: > > > > Talk to Dan @ Ten26.com. He has started the ball rolling with > > www.bsdweek.com, but he needs some encouragement (i.e. articles). > > > > I can't seem to get a name resolution for www.bsdweek.com. Does > it really exist ? > > Jay > -- It did. However, now it seems to just throw you to his company's page, www.ten26.com. I see no bsdweek homepage any more. I guess it's another aborted effort. > 4.4 > 95 hah, hah. Like that! --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 12:10:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22798 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:10:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22689; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tera.tera.com) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.224.230.127]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25105; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:09:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA21001; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805221909.MAA21001@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-Reply-To: from Billy Thompson at "May 22, 98 11:07:38 am" To: billy@idiom.com (Billy Thompson) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Billy Thompson: > > I think what is absolutely necessary to this would be a graph comparison > between Win NT and FreeBSD. Start with a lite load then keep pushing it > up until both systems are crawling. This would demostrate not only how > reliable FreeBSD is on the SAME hardware, but also how much better it is > (since I'm sure there will be obviously better performance from FreeBSD). > > Then plaster this on as many websites as you can and include it in the > business solutions document. You know how much pointy haired bosses love > graphs and charts, and this should show them in simple terms that FreeBSD > has better preformance and is more reliable. > Another issue that may be important to the more intelligent managers is that NT has little network security; FreeBSD can have security... And if this (firewall) can be pre-configured, that wins. NT______ 0.5% security FreeBSD______ 98.5% security If your e-business depended upon having a secure system, BSD provides solutions. gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 12:15:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23892 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:15:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23861; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:15:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23749; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199805221911.NAA23749@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: "Jack Velte" cc: "Jason" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, davidg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 06:30:46 PDT." <01bd8585$d3ae4500$fc01aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:07:06 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Who are the shareholders? Jordan Hubbard, Justin Gibbs, David >Greenman. Jordan is president. Justin is a microsofty. Please get your facts straight. I have no stake in FreeBSD Inc. other than a wish to see it further the FreeBSD cause, nor was I a factor in it's inception. I suppose you could brand me a "microsofty" for working for Microsoft at one point in time and even though this is something I couldn't care less about keeping secret it's not your place to broadcast who I have or haven't worked for on these lists. If anyone wants to know where I really work, all they have to do is look at my email address. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 12:21:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25512 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vixa.voyager.net (vixa.voyager.net [198.109.136.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25458; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:21:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from kib ([209.153.178.194]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26377; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003601bd85b7$4ed2f740$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "Jack Velte" Cc: , , , , Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:24:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >FreeBSD, Inc needs a business plan and mission statement. > Exactly. And don't stop there! >this isn't what business thinks. Not around here they don't....at least not all of them. I just go to the ones who give me What I Want, When I Want, How I Want. Nothing more nothing less. There are some good companies out there...you just have to look beyond your local mall :) Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 12:49:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02742 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:49:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02641; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05824; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: Jack Velte , Jason , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, davidg@root.com, gibbs@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 13:27:45 EDT." Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:45:21 -0700 Message-ID: <5820.895866321@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think you guys are both on serious drugs and I want to know where you got them and how much they cost. > On Fri, 22 May 1998, Jack Velte wrote: > > > I think chuckie should get a sister and she should be the mascot. Sandy K. > > Man, I was just about to hit [Del] when I got here! > > Yes! YES! YES! > > I *like* it! > > Maybe we can even get her to star in a Disney movie. Now that > would be marketing. ;-) > > > -- > Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! > tIM...HOEk > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 13:05:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06140 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06130 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06012; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD, Inc. stock In-reply-to: Your message of "22 May 1998 11:03:45 MDT." <87ogwq1bm6.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:05:59 -0700 Message-ID: <6008.895867559@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It doesn't exist. We're just a paper tiger right now. :) And yes, we sort of want to be a paper tiger right now. Perhaps this will change later, but I can either try to do 5 or 10 different things moderately right or I can try to do 20 or 30 different things rather badly. Until more of what's on my plate can be effectively delegated to others (and that's an ongoing effort), I don't see FreeBSD, Inc. shared being traded on the New York Stock Exchange floor anytime soon if ever. :-) [Actually, if ever. Being a corporate powerhouse was never what FreeBSD, Inc. was formed to do, it being a not-for-profit corp, and if I wanted to do a commercial spin-off I'd call the company something else entirely and avoid offending the purists]. - Jordan > Anyone know the symbol for FreeBSD, Inc.'s position on the stock market or if > any such thing even exists? > > -- > Anthony C. Chavez > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 13:31:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10427 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:31:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10393 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:30:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-31.aei.ca [206.186.204.181]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00537 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3565E078.3BDC3267@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:30:48 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: First Step Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We need very basic rules and tools to really advocate We need numbers on how many BSD user and FreeBSD user, we need "who do what in the FreeBSD team", we need a BSD news papers who will be a great tool, we need to accept than we dont want to kill linux and other OS but simply want to sell our product because its a true Unix, it have a core team, its rock-stable and its *free*. Another lack is than we dont have phone support. If we where able to sell phone support has BSDi do, we could have more enterprise. No? Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 13:42:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12812 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:42:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (passer.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.110.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12477; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cschuber@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.8/8.6.10) id NAA15662; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805222039.NAA15662@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "passer.osg.gov.bc.ca" via SMTP by localhost, id smtpdaaowwa; Fri May 22 13:39:34 1998 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 Reply-to: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-Sender: cschuber To: Billy Thompson cc: Frank Pawlak , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 11:07:38 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:38:43 -0700 From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I think what is absolutely necessary to this would be a graph comparison > between Win NT and FreeBSD. Start with a lite load then keep pushing it > up until both systems are crawling. This would demostrate not only how > reliable FreeBSD is on the SAME hardware, but also how much better it is > (since I'm sure there will be obviously better performance from FreeBSD). You'd probably want to throw Linux into the mix too... > > Then plaster this on as many websites as you can and include it in the > business solutions document. You know how much pointy haired bosses love > graphs and charts, and this should show them in simple terms that FreeBSD > has better preformance and is more reliable. Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Open Systems Group Internet: cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca ITSD Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca Government of BC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 15:00:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27915 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27731; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:59:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yczqX-0006EO-00; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:59:25 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:59:29 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group cc: Billy Thompson , Frank Pawlak , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-Reply-To: <199805222039.NAA15662@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I think what is absolutely necessary to this would be a graph comparison > > between Win NT and FreeBSD. Start with a lite load then keep pushing it > > up until both systems are crawling. This would demostrate not only how > > reliable FreeBSD is on the SAME hardware, but also how much better it is > > (since I'm sure there will be obviously better performance from FreeBSD). > > You'd probably want to throw Linux into the mix too... Yes---add basically as many (but not too many) graphs as are relevant and advantageous. e.g.: Graphs of: Price/performance for different OSs (Can this be quantified? Or just prices.) Relative OS speeds under different server loads Security (& can give specific examples e.g. teardrop) Average server uptime till crash or reboot necessary (Minimum) Hardware Requirements (?) OSs: SCO FreeBSD BSDi ? Windows NT (Novell Netware) Linux Windows 95/98 ? --- Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 15:41:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06117 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06057; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:41:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-15.aei.ca [206.186.204.165]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15324; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3565FEF1.926A1A00@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:40:49 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group CC: Billy Thompson , Frank Pawlak , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business References: <199805222039.NAA15662@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To much cross posting... I receive 3 time a letter if not 4. go on chat@freebsd.org... Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 16:54:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20321 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20268 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:54:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05785; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805222354.QAA05785@implode.root.com> To: Nicole cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 09:47:43 PDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:54:24 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >via mv and ftping, (so far I have reached 15.6MB/s via ncftp) and I have planned > some NFS tests. However I would like to know what tests would best show off Fr >eeBSD and the Gigbit ethernet. > > I think that this writeup could help a great deal in showing FreeBSD as a Real >World, we can play with the Big Toys OS. However I would like to know what tests > would best show off FreeBSD and the Gigbit ethernet. FTP and similar things involve disk I/O and thus aren't good ways to measure TCP performance. Most of us use the "ttcp" utility to measure this. Unfortunately, I don't think ttcp has been made into a 'port' yet. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 17:10:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23097 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:10:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from transbay.net (synergy.transbay.net [207.105.6.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23057 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bh@transbay.net) Received: from localhost (bh@localhost) by transbay.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA28156; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:14:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Brandon Huey To: David Greenman cc: Nicole , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199805222354.QAA05785@implode.root.com> Message-ID: X-Copyright: (C)1998 Brandon Huey; Forwarding prohibited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i thought ttcp is a memory-to-memory throughput benchmark? doesn't that make it somewhat less appropriate for real-world simulations? -bh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 17:13:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23884 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:13:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23839 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:13:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05964; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805230013.RAA05964@implode.root.com> To: Brandon Huey cc: Nicole , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 17:14:05 PDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:13:14 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >i thought ttcp is a memory-to-memory throughput benchmark? >doesn't that make it somewhat less appropriate for real-world simulations? It depends on what you want to measure. If you want to isolate and measure just the networking code performance, then ttcp is the perfect choice. If you want to test filesystem performance, than FTP is better. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 17:19:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25343 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:19:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25325 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:19:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-248.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.248]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA00943; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:19:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "Tim Vanderhoek" Cc: Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:06:40 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd85de$a93b1f60$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Fri, 22 May 1998, Jack Velte wrote: > >> I think chuckie should get a sister and she should be the mascot. Sandy K. > >Yes! YES! YES! > >I *like* it! > >Maybe we can even get her to star in a Disney movie. Now that >would be marketing. ;-) how about a Marvel Entertainment movie? The market cap of their float is $$40M. -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 17:22:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25806 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:22:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25765; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:22:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-248.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.248]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA00956; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:19:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "Jason" Cc: , Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:08:56 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd85de$fa4b1360$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>FreeBSD, Inc needs a business plan and mission statement. >> > >Exactly. And don't stop there! > > > >>this isn't what business thinks. > >Not around here they don't....at least not all of them. I just go to the >ones who give me What I Want, When I Want, How I Want. Nothing more >nothing less. There are some good companies out there...you just have to >look beyond your local mall :) your business or ``business''? secretaries do not use FreeBSD to type letters, and won't until they can run MS ap's. -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 17:29:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27183 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:29:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27170 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:29:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-248.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.248]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA07202; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:29:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: , Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:17:32 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd85e0$2dccb1c0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> > I think what is absolutely necessary to this would be a graph comparison >> > between Win NT and FreeBSD. Start with a lite load then keep pushing it >> > up until both systems are crawling. This would demostrate not only how >> > reliable FreeBSD is on the SAME hardware, but also how much better it is >> > (since I'm sure there will be obviously better performance from FreeBSD). >> >> You'd probably want to throw Linux into the mix too... > >Yes---add basically as many (but not too many) graphs as are relevant and >advantageous. you'all are still missing the point. the pointy haired boss isn't going to give a whetstone if FreeBSD is faster if it doesn't run his favorite Ap that he bought. the competition is not linux or HP/UX, it's MS windows. -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 17:30:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27422 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:30:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27169 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:29:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-248.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.248]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA07185; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "Tim Vanderhoek" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:14:45 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd85df$ca68a9e0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I think you guys are both on serious drugs and I want to know where >you got them and how much they cost. hi jordan. it's true in my case. i have some connections and it's expensive these days -- you know that. i'm serious about FreeBSD becoming a profitable enterprise. a non-profit organization does not need to be *non-profitable*! >> On Fri, 22 May 1998, Jack Velte wrote: >> >> > I think chuckie should get a sister and she should be the mascot. Sandy K. unfortunately, i feel that chuckie as little satan is an unfortunate mascot for christian secretaries. the tech's think it's all a funny game, but in the ``real world'' people have shorter insight. -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 17:38:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28426 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost2.u.washington.edu (mailhost2.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28386 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from u.washington.edu (dmorrisn@D-128-95-141-106.dhcp.washington.edu [128.95.141.106]) by mailhost2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with ESMTP id RAA08934; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:38:26 -0700 Message-ID: <35661B19.6DBC1172@u.washington.edu> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:40:57 -0700 From: Don Morrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicole CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have been playing with a Packet Engines Gigabit Ethernet hub and ethernet ca > rds that have drivers for FreeBSD. (third party) I want to write up an article/p > aper on my testing highlighting FreeBSD. So far I have tested transfering files > via mv and ftping, (so far I have reached 15.6MB/s via ncftp) and I have planned > some NFS tests. However I would like to know what tests would best show off Fr > eeBSD and the Gigbit ethernet. > > I think that this writeup could help a great deal in showing FreeBSD as a Real > World, we can play with the Big Toys OS. However I would like to know what tests > would best show off FreeBSD and the Gigbit ethernet. Well, I don't have any experience with Gigabit ethernet, but it sounds like the stated xfer rate reached above is limited by your ide hard drive's xfer rate. Maybe you should try performing your tests on a MFS (ramdisk) file system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 18:03:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02993 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:03:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02965 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:03:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA26434; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:57:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Jack Velte cc: Tim Vanderhoek , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-Reply-To: <01bd85df$ca68a9e0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 May 1998, Jack Velte wrote: > unfortunately, i feel that chuckie as little satan is an > unfortunate mascot for christian secretaries. the tech's think > it's all a funny game, but in the ``real world'' people have > shorter insight. I think sometimes the annecdotal evidence suggesting that Chuck scares people is a little over-rated. I asked some resident Christians (namely myself and friends :) and we decided he was a kinda cute and friendly demon daemon. "He's got a smile on his face." I think his sister has real potential, however. :) I would be much happier to hang her up in my room. Let's face reality --- after the legal world, the computer world is probably the next largest male locker room. Bring in Sandy K.! -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 18:33:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08475 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08426; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-248.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.248]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id SAA18671; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:33:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: Cc: Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:25:20 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd85e9$a6d9aec0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BD85AF.6A8AE360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BD85AF.6A8AE360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i run financial ap's that just are unobtainium on FreeBSD, because you = guys are stupid^h^h^h^hpoor. the ap is free and i run windows because of it, = to get the free continuous data stream. =20 when a recompile on FreeBSD creates the ap, then the other OS isn't monopolistic. =20 where is Barbie dress designer for FreeBSD? =20 my computer crashes every couple of hours. the virtual windowing = doesn't work right half the time. lots of ap's don't work right, especially = MS's. lots=20 of processes block. =20 =20 i usually edit with emacs, but not in the mail package. you have to = reboot to install ms's ap's. a pre-installed version package works 100% = better.=20 i would never buy fix-it-your-self software for a business that wasn't=20 dominated by geeks.=20 =20 -jack =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BD85AF.6A8AE360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
i run financial ap's that just are = unobtainium=20 on FreeBSD, because you guys
are stupid^h^h^h^hpoor.  the ap = is free and=20 i run windows because of it, to get the free
continuous data stream.
 
when a recompile on FreeBSD creates = the ap, then=20 the other OS isn't
monopolistic.
 
where is Barbie dress designer for = FreeBSD?
 
my computer crashes every couple of hours.  the = virtual=20 windowing doesn't
work right half the time.  lots of ap's don't = work right,=20 especially MS's.  lots 
of processes block. 
 
i usually edit with emacs, but = not in the=20 mail package.  you have to reboot
to install ms's ap's.  a pre-installed version = package=20 works 100% better. 
i would never buy fix-it-your-self software for a = business=20 that wasn't 
dominated by geeks. 
 
-jack
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BD85AF.6A8AE360-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 18:43:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09643 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:43:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09509; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA13809; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:47:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199805230147.LAA13809@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <01bd85e9$a6d9aec0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> from Jack Velte at "May 22, 98 06:25:20 pm" To: jackv@earthling.net (Jack Velte) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:47:19 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jack Velte wrote: > where is Barbie dress designer for FreeBSD? I simply _must_ know the answer to this one! I've been up all night worrying about just that. ;-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 18:57:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11667 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11633; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-248.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.248]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id SAA01451; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:53:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "Jason" , "Jack Velte" Cc: , Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:41:03 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd85eb$d8d52ce0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>FreeBSD, Inc needs a business plan and mission statement. >>> the mission statement might be to "provide perfect software at the lowest possible price while making stakeholders rich." remember, FreeBSD is free over the net. Chris Bura as sales manager. Jordan as CEO. -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 19:24:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15304 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:24:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15288; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:24:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-248.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.248]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id TAA20474; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "Jack Velte" Cc: , Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:18:39 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd85f1$1995c460$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Chris Bura as sales manager. Jordan as CEO. good management is the hardest for an enterprise. -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 19:34:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16551 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:34:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16492; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-248.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.248]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id TAA26950; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:34:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "John Birrell" Cc: , Subject: Re: your mail Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:19:26 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd85f1$3557c900$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Jack Velte wrote: >> where is Barbie dress designer for FreeBSD? > >I simply _must_ know the answer to this one! I've been up all night >worrying about just that. ;-) only when MS's virtual monopoly on the OS is gone. -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 20:31:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23104 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:31:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (root@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23033; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id NAA26934; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:20:19 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:20:18 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: Jack Velte cc: Jason , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-Reply-To: <01bd85de$fa4b1360$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 May 1998, Jack Velte wrote: [snip] > >Not around here they don't....at least not all of them. I just go to the > >ones who give me What I Want, When I Want, How I Want. Nothing more > >nothing less. There are some good companies out there...you just have to > >look beyond your local mall :) > > > your business or ``business''? secretaries do not use FreeBSD to type > letters, and won't until they can run MS ap's. > > -jack Or applications the equivalent or better than MS app's... Is there a list anywhere available that shows all the commercial software (that we know of) that is available and/or compatible for FreeBSD? That would be a big benefit when showing business managers - they could easily see that FreeBSD provides a cost-effective solution that meets their commercial needs. Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick - public key available on request. Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of Wollongong. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 20:35:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23652 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from osprey.grizzly.com (med.sc.scruznet.com [165.227.115.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23644 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:35:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markd@Grizzly.COM) Received: (from markd@localhost) by osprey.grizzly.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA02883; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805230337.UAA02883@osprey.grizzly.com> From: Mark Diekhans To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <01bd85e0$2dccb1c0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> (jackv@earthling.net) Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business References: <01bd85e0$2dccb1c0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: "Jack Velte" >you'all are still missing the point. the pointy haired boss isn't going to >give >a whetstone if FreeBSD is faster if it doesn't run his favorite Ap that he >bought. > >the competition is not linux or HP/UX, it's MS windows. I must humbly disagree. FreeBSD is not an alternative desktop system for a business environment. No Windozes application user is going to give up Word for LaTeX or Excel for sc. Nor are they going to figure out what it takes to keep a Unix system up and running. They can handle rebooting several times a day; its just a red button, they can't handle ps, sysctl and sendmail.cf. WINE emulation? Why bother? Its not going to buy them anything. I have pretty much come to the conclusion from using other Windozes on Unix emulators that it just isn't worth it. If I ever need to use Windozes routinely, I will just buy another computer, its far cheaper than screwing around with emulation environments. Where FreeBSD is an alternative to Microsoft is as a server. NT is not gaining acceptance as a business critical server. Its ok for small departmental servers, but it just doesn't have the robustness for something that must stay up. Of course, Microsoft wants to change this, but its not there yet. This begs the question, what type of server? what niche to go after? o Departmental server (file, print, application). Needs to be able to easily integrate with the Microsoft clients. Out of my area of expertise. o Central corporate server. The big weakness here is the lack of a database solution. One of the big three, not MySQL or Postgres. This is a long shot; these ports are very costly, no vendor is going to do it without strong demand. The demand will not be there unless the database and applicaions are there. Even if it where, this is a risk-sensitive environment. Plus having a Sybase port is not going to do you any good for the oracle or informix shops. They invest a lot in a database and a database vendor, more than just money, its in-house expertise and applications. There is paranoia about these kind of servers anyway, they are not going to take risk's. The cost of the OS and hardware is nothing compared to the central DB server being down. Not much hope here. o Intranet/internet application server. Now this is interesting (but then again, I get paid to build such things, so I am biased). FreeBSD already has a reputation as a internet server; expand on it. These systems are less critical, so the `no body ever got fired for buying IBM' mentality is not as strong. They are often replicated, so there is some cost incentive. Some ideas on what is needed here: o Java. A solid, fast Java VM and development environment. Server side Java is becoming very popular for intranet/internet applications. These applications are custom and portable, so FreeBSD as an environment is not a hinderance. I do such work on a daily basis on FreeBSD and am using it as a test environment (a solid JVM would help). o Database connectivity. For Java, JDBC should cover this. For non-java development, client libraries are needed. Once of the big-3 (sybase, I believe), has libraries for linux freely available via ftp. o A port of Netscape enterprise server would be a plus. Apache is good, but there is a perceived need for a threaded server for scalability. Maybe more preception than reality. o Clustering. Built-in IP clustering would also help in promoting FreeBSD as a solution (although it can certainly plug into existing routers that do this). On promoting FreeBSD. Buying Jordan a couple of $1000 suits and a high limit gold card and sending him out to wine and dine executives is not the answer. Promoting it to the techincal people within companies has a good chance of getting somewhere. The IT shop engineers who already know Unix; get them hooked and they can promote up. These people can accomplish a lot, they have more power than you realize. They can sell by example: IT manager: "Hows it going?" IT programmer: "The Java/WWW based sales force automation application demo is working." M: "Wow, that was fast!" P: "Our only Sun development system was overloaded and the admin's couldn't seem to get Java working, so I installed FreeBSD on my desktop." M: "Well, we need to demo this ASAP to the sales manager, can you set it up on a server?" P: "No problem, I will leave it running on my desktop, here is the URL." M: "Excellent!" (rushes out the cubical). ... M: "The sales manager loved it! He wants to demo it to his VP and get the senior sales people evaulating it. This is great, it will really making us look good, but the AIX box that is slated to be the server hasn't even got all of the signatures on it, its going to take a couple of months to get it." P: "No problem, we have a Pentium system in the machine room that isn't being used for much, lets install FreeBSD on it. He can be showing the VP in a couple of hours!" M: "I don't know about this free Unix. Getting the VP to like this is important, he signs out checks. We can't have it crashing or it will be back to 3270 based apps! Can we use NT?" P: "I thought you didn't want it to crash..." You get the picture, the AIX box gets delayed and the actual app goes on line with FreeBSD. "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission." -- Grace Murray Hopper All IMHO, Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 21:46:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29966 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail3.mailsorter.net (mail3.mailsorter.net [207.67.128.12] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29950 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kriston@ibm.net) Received: from slip.dc.us.ibm.net ([152.166.231.191]) by mail3.mailsorter.net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA14587 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:46:10 -0700 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:44:16 -0400 Message-ID: <9585-Sat23May1998004416-0400-kriston@ibm.net> From: kriston@ibm.net (Kriston J. Rehberg) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-Reply-To: <01bd85df$ca68a9e0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> References: <01bd85df$ca68a9e0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jack Velte writes: > unfortunately, i feel that chuckie as little satan is an unfortunate > mascot for christian secretaries. the tech's think it's all a funny > game, but in the ``real world'' people have shorter insight. All kidding aside, I have encountered two people in the real world so far who take this very seriously. One of them even went so far as to denounce the "killing" of "parent" processes so that their "children" will be "killed" as well. Of course they don't like the idea of the things called "daemons" inside the system themselves. Not that there are scary little demons running around, just that the joke is that they are supposed to represent little demons running around. I doubt any of you would actually believe that this is a real problem, but I have seen first-hand on more than one occasion that the spiritual issues surrounding Unix are a very real problem that some people have with Unix -- especially the BSD derivatives since it's such a fun, traditional inside joke to the BSD people. One of these guys would rather advocate AS/400, OS/2, or Windows than Unix. I'm not saying he's right, but he was in a position to make the decision. These people were not hicks at small ISP's or backwater job shops, these were really bright folks at large (sometimes three-lettered) computer companies. I personally have no opinion on this. But I wanted to back Jack up that it's a real problem for some people and they don't take it lightly. Lots and lots of people take religion very seriously. That's why it's a multi-billion-dollar industry in the USA (hehe). Kris PS...we don't need to post the daemon tee-shirt story again :) -- Kriston J. Rehberg AOL: Kriston http://kriston.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 21:55:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00862 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:55:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail3.mailsorter.net (mail3.mailsorter.net [207.67.128.12] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00849 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:54:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kriston@ibm.net) Received: from slip.dc.us.ibm.net ([152.166.231.191]) by mail3.mailsorter.net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA16008 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:54:24 -0700 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:53:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3626-Sat23May1998005302-0400-kriston@ibm.net> From: kriston@ibm.net (Kriston J. Rehberg) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-Reply-To: <199805230337.UAA02883@osprey.grizzly.com> References: <01bd85e0$2dccb1c0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> <199805230337.UAA02883@osprey.grizzly.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Diekhans writes: > > o A port of Netscape enterprise server would be a plus. Apache is > good, but there is a perceived need for a threaded server for > scalability. Maybe more preception than reality. With just user-level threads, this isn't going to buy you much. But that's okay because almost nobody buys multiprocessor Pentium systems at this moment, so you'll get efficient use of resources in the web server process. That will change and it would help to have kernel-level threads to take advantage of the extra processor(s) if that web server were threaded; until then fork/exec is better for multiprocessor systems -- at least the way I understand it. Kris -- Kriston J. Rehberg AOL: Kriston http://kriston.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 22:26:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03895 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:26:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from osprey.grizzly.com (med.sc.scruznet.com [165.227.115.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03817 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:25:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markd@Grizzly.COM) Received: (from markd@localhost) by osprey.grizzly.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA03120; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805230527.WAA03120@osprey.grizzly.com> From: Mark Diekhans To: kriston@ibm.net CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <3626-Sat23May1998005302-0400-kriston@ibm.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business References: <01bd85e0$2dccb1c0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> <199805230337.UAA02883@osprey.grizzly.com> <3626-Sat23May1998005302-0400-kriston@ibm.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Kris, >Mark Diekhans writes: >> >> o A port of Netscape enterprise server would be a plus. Apache is >> good, but there is a perceived need for a threaded server for >> scalability. Maybe more preception than reality. > >With just user-level threads, this isn't going to buy you much. But >that's okay because almost nobody buys multiprocessor Pentium systems >at this moment, so you'll get efficient use of resources in the web >server process. That will change and it would help to have >kernel-level threads to take advantage of the extra processor(s) if >that web server were threaded; until then fork/exec is better for >multiprocessor systems -- at least the way I understand it. The rational here is that user-level threads eliminate much of the process context switching overhead. Not having seen or done performance measurements, I can't say if its significant to a http server or not, I discussed it with people in charge of selecting systems who felt a threaded server was required (but then again, they didn't have any measurements to back it up). Personally, I would just add another pentium running apache if the first one got bogged down. Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 22 22:31:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04475 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04470 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:31:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA16196; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:32:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <35661B19.6DBC1172@u.washington.edu> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:32:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: Don Morrison Subject: Re: Gigabit FreeBSD Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA04471 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-May-98 Don Morrison wisely wrote: >> I have been playing with a Packet Engines Gigabit Ethernet hub and >> ethernet ca >> rds that have drivers for FreeBSD. (third party) I want to write up an >> article/p >> aper on my testing highlighting FreeBSD. So far I have tested transfering >> files >> via mv and ftping, (so far I have reached 15.6MB/s via ncftp) and I have >> planned >> some NFS tests. However I would like to know what tests would best show off >> Fr >> eeBSD and the Gigbit ethernet. >> >> I think that this writeup could help a great deal in showing FreeBSD as a >> Real >> World, we can play with the Big Toys OS. However I would like to know what >> tests >> would best show off FreeBSD and the Gigbit ethernet. > > Well, I don't have any experience with Gigabit ethernet, but it sounds > like the stated xfer rate reached above is limited by your ide hard > drive's xfer rate. Maybe you should try performing your tests on a MFS > (ramdisk) file system. Yes, however I don't think it did too much as I was using a DPT RAID card with (2) 4 gig Seagate Cheeta drives in Mirror and 32Megs of cache on a 266MHX Pent I I system with 256 Megs of memory as the requestor. The "server" was similiarly o utfitted. I now have it set up on an ABIT BX chipset MB with a 400 MHZ Pent II cpu. I was thinking of using "bing" for wire speed. But my biggest problem is how to load test it. Like pretending that the other end is and NFS mounted drive and y our end is a well visited web server or mail server. that sort of thing since th at would be most peoples application. Just measuring the time for a ping packet is kinda useless and even bing just does the same sort of thing I think. Does TTCP do any loading? anyone know where to find a copy I can compile? My next alternative, which I know would not please my boss, is to capture a bu ng of porno pics from usenet, and place them on a drive on system A. Then set up a web server on system B with system A NFS mounted. Then advertise a free porno website, and watch the traffic build ;> Of course, this is still limited by t he fact that the Gigabit hub is connected to the router via 100Bt so even that w ould not be "real" test :< Thanks Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 00:06:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11014 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 00:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10934 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 00:05:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@dialA31.aei.ca [206.123.6.69]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA00666 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:05:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 03:05:48 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I dont know where to mail that post, so I mail it to advocacy ;-) I've worked some hours on a new concept for a new FreeBSD.org page. Its not perfect, links are broken and there is no new graphics. http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 01:02:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17083 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 01:02:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17015 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 01:01:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA03176; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:31:42 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980523173142.M317@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:31:42 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nicole , Don Morrison Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit FreeBSD References: <35661B19.6DBC1172@u.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicole on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 10:32:46PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 May 1998 at 22:32:46 -0700, Nicole wrote: > > My next alternative, which I know would not please my boss, is to > capture a bu ng of porno pics from usenet, and place them on a drive > on system A. Then set up a web server on system B with system A NFS > mounted. Then advertise a free porno website, and watch the traffic > build ;> Of course, this is still limited by t he fact that the > Gigabit hub is connected to the router via 100Bt so even that w ould > not be "real" test :< A while back I wrote some programs to force as much data across the wire as possible. I'll see if I can drag them out. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 02:04:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24589 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:04:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24584 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:04:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08506; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:01:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Jack Velte" cc: "Tim Vanderhoek" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 17:14:45 PDT." <01bd85df$ca68a9e0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 02:01:38 -0700 Message-ID: <8502.895914098@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i'm serious about FreeBSD becoming a profitable enterprise. a > non-profit organization does not need to be *non-profitable*! I agree, of course, I just don't think that the best area to focus ones constructive suggestions is currently centered around Billy Jean King dolls with glued-on horns when so many more obviously pressing technical problems exist. To put it another way, if I'm thinking of taking FreeBSD into more profitable directions then the very last thing I'm going to be worried about is the gender of the mascot when I'm still not sure what the technical support infrastructure is going to look like or how to even word the support contracts so that neither customer nor company is left unduly exposed (just to name a few such issues - the list goes on). > unfortunately, i feel that chuckie as little satan is an unfortunate mascot > for > christian secretaries. the tech's think it's all a funny game, but in the You're probably right, but that still does not negate the fact that any and all christian secretaries so offended are always free and encouraged to line up and kiss my white hiney any time they please. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 02:06:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24732 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:06:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24711 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08545; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: Jack Velte , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 20:57:42 EDT." Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 02:06:01 -0700 Message-ID: <8542.895914361@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > largest male locker room. Bring in Sandy K.! I think that Sandy King, the person whom Jack is clearly and obviously trying to name this thing after, would object rather strenuously. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 02:23:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26383 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:23:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26369 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:23:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08681; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:23:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Mark Diekhans cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 20:37:13 PDT." <199805230337.UAA02883@osprey.grizzly.com> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 02:23:32 -0700 Message-ID: <8677.895915412@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I must humbly disagree. FreeBSD is not an alternative desktop system for a > business environment. No Windozes application user is going to give up Word Why pull punches, Mark? Let's put it even more bluntly: There is absolutely no rationale for any Unix system to go after the desktop or desktop application market right today, nor has there been for some time, and anyone who thinks otherwise has either been living under a stone for the last decade or is, pardon me, a complete and total idiot. That war is lost and one might just as well counsel the Iraqi army that it'd be a really good idea to invade Kuwait again. > This begs the question, what type of server? what niche to go after? I think we can go after almost all of them. The nice thing about the marriage of a "big iron OS" with "little iron PCs", especially PCs which are now many times more powerful than departmental minis of the past, is that we really can address both ends of the server market simultaneously. We've already proven that we can handle many of the big jobs, and the cost of a PC these days would allow even the smallest corner grocery store to keep its inventory on one (and heck, they probably do!). > o A port of Netscape enterprise server would be a plus. Apache is The BSDI run works great though - we use it at Walnut Creek CDROM. > o Clustering. Built-in IP clustering would also help in promoting That'd be awful nice, yeah (he looks around pointedly at the assembled hackers, most of who back away hastily) > On promoting FreeBSD. Buying Jordan a couple of $1000 suits and a high limit > gold card and sending him out to wine and dine executives is not the answer. Not to this problem, no, though it'd certainly be the answer to a rather dull social life! I'd even settle for just one $1000 suit. ;-) > P: "No problem, we have a Pentium system in the machine room that isn't being > used for much, lets install FreeBSD on it. He can be showing the VP > in a couple of hours!" This is right on the money - I see this all the time. Stealth marketing is sometimes the very best kind. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 02:27:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27142 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27113 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08711; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:27:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: kriston@ibm.net (Kriston J. Rehberg) cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 May 1998 00:44:16 EDT." <9585-Sat23May1998004416-0400-kriston@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 02:27:47 -0700 Message-ID: <8706.895915667@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > All kidding aside, I have encountered two people in the real world so > far who take this very seriously. One of them even went so far as to I know. We also have people in the real world who do a lot of other really screwy stuff too, often in large numbers, but I think it's nonetheless important to stay true to your own principles in spite of them. Cave in to the lunatic fringe often enough and one day you wake up to the realization that you ARE the lunatic fringe now. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 02:50:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00334 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00315; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-29-159.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.29.159]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id CAA05509; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:50:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: Cc: Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:15:16 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd861a$892336e0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG notfreebsd, inc would be a perfect communist company. are there any arithmetic computers that also have neural net hardware? -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 03:12:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA02517 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from saten.dyn.ml.org (203.ppp8.gulftel.com [208.222.59.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA02510 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from advocacy@saten.dyn.ml.org) Received: from localhost (advocacy@localhost) by saten.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA00627; Sat, 23 May 1998 05:08:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 05:08:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Phillip Salzman To: Nicole cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: A website. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If he puts up that site, I will more than gladly contribute to it, as long as it stays focused on its main goal.. Phillip > > Joe Grosch has an idea for a site that he plans to put up on www.freebsd-suppor > t.com. > I hope to add things to this site as well. I am sure that anything you would be > willing to offer would be welcome > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 03:24:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03770 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from osprey.grizzly.com (med.sc.scruznet.com [165.227.115.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA03759 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:24:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markd@Grizzly.COM) Received: (from markd@localhost) by osprey.grizzly.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id DAA21732; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 03:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805231026.DAA21732@osprey.grizzly.com> From: Mark Diekhans To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <8677.895915412@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business References: <8677.895915412@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > >> I must humbly disagree. FreeBSD is not an alternative desktop system for a >> business environment. No Windozes application user is going to give up Word > >Why pull punches, Mark? Let's put it even more bluntly: There is >absolutely no rationale for any Unix system to go after the desktop or >desktop application market right today, nor has there been for some >time, and anyone who thinks otherwise has either been living under a >stone for the last decade or is, pardon me, a complete and total >idiot. If you do find anyone who thinks so, I have some SCO stock to sell them for $75 a share :-) To be clear, this is the business application desktop market; in the scientific and technical desktop market, FreeBSD is an excellent choice. >> o A port of Netscape enterprise server would be a plus. Apache is > >The BSDI run works great though - we use it at Walnut Creek CDROM. This is the kind of information that would great to have available. Some thing like at set of `how to set up a XXX server on FreeBSD' pages would be a good starting point. (I quickly remember all of the people who are ready to kill me because I owe them projects, results, etc). >> On promoting FreeBSD. Buying Jordan a couple of $1000 suits and a high limit >> gold card and sending him out to wine and dine executives is not the answer. > >Not to this problem, no, though it'd certainly be the answer to a >rather dull social life! I'd even settle for just one $1000 suit. ;-) A social life ain't all its cut out to be (he says at 3:00 AM Sat)... >> P: "No problem, we have a Pentium system in the machine room that isn't being >> used for much, lets install FreeBSD on it. He can be showing the VP >> in a couple of hours!" > >This is right on the money - I see this all the time. Stealth >marketing is sometimes the very best kind. :) Amen. The question then becomes, what can be done help these stealth marketeers? The key times are getting them started quickly and when they have to de-cloak. The HOWTOs would help the getting started. A big problem with de-cloaking is support, paided support. Seriously, a lot of larger companies avoid or have a policy against using free software because they can't buy a support contract. Never mind that most commercial software support sucks and they at least have a fighting chance to fix a critical bug if they have the source, they have to have that support contract. Getting in bed with some place like Cygnus and have an `official' support arangement might help. Even charging several thousand a year for the privilege of e-mailing a program that forwards the message on to a random core team member's beeper might be enough. Just ideas.. Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 03:33:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA04821 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA04786; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19767; Sat, 23 May 1998 10:30:10 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA10072; Sat, 23 May 1998 12:30:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980523123003.22392@follo.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:30:03 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Nicholas Charles Brawn , Jack Velte Cc: Jason , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. References: <01bd85de$fa4b1360$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicholas Charles Brawn on Sat, May 23, 1998 at 01:20:18PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 01:20:18PM +1000, Nicholas Charles Brawn wrote: > On Fri, 22 May 1998, Jack Velte wrote: > > your business or ``business''? secretaries do not use FreeBSD to type > > letters, and won't until they can run MS ap's. > > Or applications the equivalent or better than MS app's... > > Is there a list anywhere available that shows all the commercial software > (that we know of) that is available and/or compatible for FreeBSD? That > would be a big benefit when showing business managers - they could easily > see that FreeBSD provides a cost-effective solution that meets their > commercial needs. http://www.freebsd.org/commercial/software.html is supposed to, but it isn't as complete as we'd like. Feel free to submit updates. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 07:34:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01989 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 07:34:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1624.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01978 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 07:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00270; Sat, 23 May 1998 10:32:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Tim Vanderhoek , Jack Velte , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we should not support Microsoft. In-Reply-To: <8542.895914361@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 23 May 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I think that Sandy King, the person whom Jack is clearly and > obviously trying to name this thing after, would object rather > strenuously. :) Yow! You mean she's a real person?! Oh dear... The idea was good in principle, anyways... ;-) -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 09:26:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08870 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 09:26:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08839 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 09:26:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA10735; Sun, 24 May 1998 02:26:13 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980524022609.21670@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:26:09 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Malartre Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ References: <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Sat, May 23, 1998 at 03:05:48AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 03:05:48AM -0400, Malartre wrote: > I dont know where to mail that post, so I mail it to advocacy ;-) > > I've worked some hours on a new concept for a new FreeBSD.org page. Why? What exactly were you aiming to alter? > Its not perfect, links are broken and there is no new graphics. > > http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ Sure, it doesn't fit in my browser window yet. The real one does. I'd like to hear what it is that you think needs changing, before looking at how you're suggesting it could be done. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 10:51:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01354 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 10:51:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01347 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 10:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA21866; Sat, 23 May 1998 10:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:52:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: Malartre Subject: RE: http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA01348 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-May-98 Malartre wisely wrote: > I dont know where to mail that post, so I mail it to advocacy ;-) > > I've worked some hours on a new concept for a new FreeBSD.org page. > Its not perfect, links are broken and there is no new graphics. > > http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ > > Malartre > I like it! I think that it helps address many of the topics we have discussed here. Good job! What do you think Jordan? Nicole > -- > -------------------------------------------------- > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 11:06:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10224 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10143 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:06:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA21927; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:08:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8677.895915412@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:08:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA10148 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-May-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wisely wrote: >> I must humbly disagree. FreeBSD is not an alternative desktop system for a >> business environment. No Windozes application user is going to give up Word I Agree Personally I don't want us to go the way of NT in trying to be an everything sy stem. Remember, M$ goals are to get rid of Win95 after this new release and merg e everything together into one OS. Then just have M$ workstation and M$ Server. As we have been shown, there is really very little difference between the two. I would rather have FreeBSD focus on being a Killer Server that can also be use d as a desktop. Lets face it, no one but those who love UNIX and people who have serious tasks to accomplish would use a UNIX OS as their desktop. If your looking to provide an alternative to M$ windows, I would suggest a new project or helping those already underway. Maybe a seperate project called FreeB SD Desktop, Featuring X windows from the first boot up and " everything" GUIed, becouse that is what it is going to take. I only hope that that stays secondary to making/keeping FreeBSD the most robust Server platform. Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 11:52:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28916 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:52:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28893 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08411; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805231852.LAA08411@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nicole cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 May 1998 11:08:27 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:52:22 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > d as a desktop. Lets face it, no one but those who love UNIX and people who > have serious tasks to accomplish would use a UNIX OS as their desktop. > > If your looking to provide an alternative to M$ windows, I would suggest a new > project or helping those already underway. Maybe a seperate project called FreeB > SD Desktop, Featuring X windows from the first boot up and " everything" GUIed, > becouse that is what it is going to take. I only hope that that stays secondary > to making/keeping FreeBSD the most robust Server platform. > > > Sure, that sounds great . Incidently, my favorite desktop OS is FreeBSD ever tried to work on Win95 or WinNT after hacking on FreeBSD? Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 13:21:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26846 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:21:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic11.pm06.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26839 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA23665; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980523132128.D22591@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:21:29 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Nicole , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <8677.895915412@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicole on Sat, May 23, 1998 at 11:08:27AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 11:08:27AM -0700, Nicole wrote: > > On 23-May-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wisely wrote: >>> I must humbly disagree. FreeBSD is not an alternative desktop system >>> for a business environment. No Windozes application user is going to >>> give up Word > >I Agree > > >Personally I don't want us to go the way of NT in trying to be an >everything system. Remember, M$ goals are to get rid of Win95 after this >new release and merge everything together into one OS. Then just have M$ >workstation and M$ Server. >As we have been shown, there is really very little difference between the >two. > Yes, this is microsoft's stated policy. Sorta like England's policy of 2 centurys ago, "To make the world England" with the same predictable results. >I would rather have FreeBSD focus on being a Killer Server that can also >be used as a desktop. Lets face it, no one but those who love UNIX and >people who have serious tasks to accomplish would use a UNIX OS as their >desktop. > YES!! we should focus on making FreeBSD _THE_ server OS of choice on a selected range of hardware. We already are making very good progress in this area. Pushing FreeBSD as the choice OS for a low-end workstation is also an area where can get a lot of traction. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 15:16:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10638 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 15:16:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from huron.nvl.virginia.edu (root@huron.nvl.Virginia.EDU [128.143.244.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10624 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 15:16:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@nvl.virginia.edu) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by huron.nvl.virginia.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA26967; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:14:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Mark Diekhans , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-Reply-To: <8677.895915412@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 23 May 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > o A port of Netscape enterprise server would be a plus. Apache is > > The BSDI run works great though - we use it at Walnut Creek CDROM. Does it really? Which server? Here's what I see from the only httpd I ever connect to at Walnut Creek: > : adrian@lorax; telnet www.cdrom.com http > Trying 209.155.82.18... > Connected to wcarchive.cdrom.com. > Escape character is '^]'. > HEAD / HTTP/1.0 > > HTTP/1.1 200 OK > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:10:12 GMT > Server: Apache/1.3a1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Last-Modified: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:43:00 GMT > ETag: "7bc59-14ef-355754c4" > Content-Length: 5359 > Accept-Ranges: bytes > Connection: close > Content-Type: text/html > > Connection closed by foreign host. Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualization Lab ->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 16:07:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18608 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 16:07:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from main_sd1.artnetonline.com ([194.75.26.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA18583 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 16:07:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuehl@lgk.de) Received: from di23hh.bonline.net (di23hh.bonline.net [194.75.27.151]) by main_sd1.artnetonline.com (NTMail 3.03.0013/1.abqk) with ESMTP id va534347 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 01:06:51 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199805231852.LAA08411@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:07:25 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: kuehl@lgk.de From: Lars Gerhard Kuehl To: Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Nicole Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-May-98 Amancio Hasty wrote: > >> d as a desktop. Lets face it, no one but those who love UNIX and people who >> have serious tasks to accomplish would use a UNIX OS as their desktop. >> >> If your looking to provide an alternative to M$ windows, I would suggest a >> new >> project or helping those already underway. Maybe a seperate project called >> FreeB >> SD Desktop, Featuring X windows from the first boot up and " everything" >> GUIed, >> becouse that is what it is going to take. I only hope that that stays >> secondary >> to making/keeping FreeBSD the most robust Server platform. >> >> >> > Sure, that sounds great . Incidently, my favorite desktop OS is FreeBSD > ever tried to work on Win95 or WinNT after hacking on FreeBSD? I tried - and failed successfully. Nonetheless I have to. For good results I recommend FreeBSD. Lars /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Ph: +49 40 54768010 Lars Gerhard Kuehl Fx: +49 40 54768012 Mo: +49 171 9307085 EDV-Beratung Em: kuehl@lgk.de BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 17:52:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29118 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29079 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-19.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.68]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA18952; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:38:52 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980523174410.0069da00@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:44:10 -0700 To: Sue Blake , Malartre From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980524022609.21670@welearn.com.au> References: <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca> <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Looks good to me, and actually it's a very nice redo of the current FreeBSD homepage. What resolution are you running? I don't think he's actually trying to alter anything really, just improve the flow of the whole site and make things easier to find. Seems like pretty much everything is laid out rather gracefully right on the first page. He's done a perfect job at doing that. I like it! Keep up the good work, Malatre! Joey Bear Garcia At 02:26 AM 5/24/98 +1000, Sue Blake wrote: >On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 03:05:48AM -0400, Malartre wrote: >> I dont know where to mail that post, so I mail it to advocacy ;-) >> >> I've worked some hours on a new concept for a new FreeBSD.org page. > >Why? What exactly were you aiming to alter? > >> Its not perfect, links are broken and there is no new graphics. >> >> http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ > >Sure, it doesn't fit in my browser window yet. The real one does. > >I'd like to hear what it is that you think needs changing, before looking >at how you're suggesting it could be done. > > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 17:56:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00447 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:56:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (sabre.goldsword.com [199.170.202.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00387; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:56:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from jfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05828; Sat, 23 May 1998 19:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "John T. Farmer" Message-Id: <199805232343.TAA05828@sabre.goldsword.com> To: billy@idiom.com, fpawlak@execpc.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, jfarmer@goldsword.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 May 1998 11:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Billy Thompson said: >I think what is absolutely necessary to this would be a graph comparison >between Win NT and FreeBSD. Start with a lite load then keep pushing it >up until both systems are crawling. This would demostrate not only how >reliable FreeBSD is on the SAME hardware, but also how much better it is >(since I'm sure there will be obviously better performance from FreeBSD). > >Then plaster this on as many websites as you can and include it in the >business solutions document. You know how much pointy haired bosses love >graphs and charts, and this should show them in simple terms that FreeBSD >has better preformance and is more reliable. > While I would like to see these numbers & graphs (ie, I think it's a good thing to do), Let's not for a minute think that they will contribute to changing upper managements minds. To paraphrase a quote from my younger days in the industry: "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft..." The simple truth is that shops that would be swayed by such arguements are already running or considering running Solaris, Idrix, HPUX, Aix, etc. That is, shops that are already willing to consider a non-Microsoft solution. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John T. Farmer Proprietor, GoldSword Systems jfarmer@goldsword.com Public Internet Access in East Tennessee Office: (423)691-6498 for info, e-mail to info@goldsword.com Network Design, Internet Services & Servers, Consulting To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 18:07:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03559 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 18:07:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03396 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 18:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13984; Sat, 23 May 1998 18:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Adrian Filipi-Martin cc: Mark Diekhans , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 May 1998 17:14:38 EDT." Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:06:37 -0700 Message-ID: <13981.895971997@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does it really? Which server? Here's what I see from the only > httpd I ever connect to at Walnut Creek: Try https://www.cdrom.com - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 18:07:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03629 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 18:07:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03545 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 18:07:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@dialA3e.aei.ca [206.123.6.82]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22620; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <356772AE.C76BAB13@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:06:54 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ References: <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca> <19980524022609.21670@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sue Blake wrote: > On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 03:05:48AM -0400, Malartre wrote: > > I dont know where to mail that post, so I mail it to advocacy ;-) > > > > I've worked some hours on a new concept for a new FreeBSD.org page. > > Why? What exactly were you aiming to alter? > > > Its not perfect, links are broken and there is no new graphics. > > > > http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ > > Sure, it doesn't fit in my browser window yet. The real one does. > > I'd like to hear what it is that you think needs changing, before looking > at how you're suggesting it could be done. Sue, present me a screen shot of your web browser when it dont fit and say to me your resolution. It work really good with netscape and lynx.... I really want to do it right just for you ;-) It work for me with Lynx Netscape 4.04 (640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768 without any trouble. There is no horisontal scrolling) MSIE-3.2 (Its not so beautiful with it, but its compatible) There is a need to change the link allocation. The current page work like a tree FreeBSD.ORG --> 10 major choice of URL (3 are at the end of the page... Getting FreeBSD, FreeBSD FAQ and Handbook. That stupid to put them there.) -->All other link My page work like that: FreeBSD.ORG --> All link (like that, no need to search for the Y2K bug: its on the top) Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 18:16:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04807 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 18:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04781 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 18:16:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA11314; Sun, 24 May 1998 10:09:43 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980524100943.J11762@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:09:43 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nicole , Malartre Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ References: <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicole on Sat, May 23, 1998 at 10:52:45AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 23 May 1998 at 10:52:45 -0700, Nicole wrote: > On 23-May-98 Malartre wisely wrote: >> I dont know where to mail that post, so I mail it to advocacy ;-) >> >> I've worked some hours on a new concept for a new FreeBSD.org page. >> Its not perfect, links are broken and there is no new graphics. >> >> http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ > > I like it! I think that it helps address many of the topics we have discussed > here. Good job! Agreed. It's much easier to find your way around it than the previous one. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 20:44:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29019 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:44:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail3.mailsorter.net (mail3.mailsorter.net [207.67.128.12] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28987 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:44:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kriston@ibm.net) Received: from slip.dc.us.ibm.net ([152.200.122.81]) by mail3.mailsorter.net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA5123 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:43:51 -0700 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 23:38:10 -0400 Message-ID: <7442-Sat23May1998233810-0400-kriston@ibm.net> From: kriston@ibm.net (Kriston J. Rehberg) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD A Solution For Business In-Reply-To: <199805230527.WAA03120@osprey.grizzly.com> References: <01bd85e0$2dccb1c0$f820aace@eliot.pacbell.net> <199805230337.UAA02883@osprey.grizzly.com> <3626-Sat23May1998005302-0400-kriston@ibm.net> <199805230527.WAA03120@osprey.grizzly.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Diekhans writes: >The rational here is that user-level threads eliminate much of the process >context switching overhead. Not having seen or done performance measurements, >I can't say if its significant to a http server or not, I discussed it with >people in charge of selecting systems who felt a threaded server was required >(but then again, they didn't have any measurements to back it up). Personally, >I would just add another pentium running apache if the first one got bogged >down. Yeah, but I thought the problem is that you don't have a guarantee that the scheduler will run your Apache process on the second Pentium. I don't tend to believe that merely adding processors automatically makes everything faster. Sure, if your system starts and stops lots of processes, you will get an advantage. But if it's a persistent process like a web server, is there really a guarantee that it will go onto another processor on your system? But as for the user-level threads in FreeBSD, can they be spread out over >1 processor, or does that require kernel threads? Kris -- Kriston J. Rehberg AOL: Kriston http://kriston.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 21:32:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06264 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:32:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA06250 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 28092 invoked from network); 24 May 1998 04:34:41 -0000 Received: from ip21.san-francisco22.ca.pub-ip.psi.net (HELO scam.xcf.berkeley.edu) (38.28.60.21) by scam.xcf.berkeley.edu with SMTP; 24 May 1998 04:34:41 -0000 Message-ID: <3567A2D7.5CDBD681@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:32:23 -0700 From: Jason Nordwick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Newsletter #2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As people now, issue #2 is out, and I submitted it to Slashdot. Lets see if we make it (not to seem rude, but I don't think that it will make it, especially in light of the current BSD thread going on in "The Case Against Linux" forum. Jay -- 4.4 > 95 http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 23 22:46:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15011 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 22:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14974 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 22:46:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12298; Sun, 24 May 1998 15:46:28 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980524154624.58829@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 15:46:24 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Malartre Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ References: <3566754B.78B28C72@aei.ca> <19980524022609.21670@welearn.com.au> <356772AE.C76BAB13@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <356772AE.C76BAB13@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Sat, May 23, 1998 at 09:06:54PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 09:06:54PM -0400, Malartre wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 03:05:48AM -0400, Malartre wrote: > > > I dont know where to mail that post, so I mail it to advocacy ;-) > > > > > > I've worked some hours on a new concept for a new FreeBSD.org page. > > > > Why? What exactly were you aiming to alter? > > > > > Its not perfect, links are broken and there is no new graphics. > > > > > > http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/BSD/ > > > > Sure, it doesn't fit in my browser window yet. The real one does. > > > > I'd like to hear what it is that you think needs changing, before looking > > at how you're suggesting it could be done. > > Sue, present me a screen shot of your web browser when it dont fit and say to > me your resolution. It work really good with netscape and lynx.... I've mailed it to you. As you will see, there's a large blank margin on the left and on the right, and the two columns of text in the centre overlap each other. I can't see the end of some of the words on the left. Other words appear as a list, but I think that some of those words are supposed to appear together as a single phrase. They don't. The bottom half of the page has no text on the left, only a section to the right of the centre. The four graphics at the bottom are not centred with respect to this text, and are bunched up. On the FreeBSD site these four are nicely spread out over the width of the window, whatever size that window is. These are the things that happen when you try describe screen layout instead of describing the document and letting the client handle it. > I really want to do it right just for you ;-) That's not a good reason :-) Besides, it should be right for anybody. It should not work just for my window, but it should work for every possible window size. > It work for me with > Lynx > Netscape 4.04 (640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768 without any trouble. There is no > horisontal scrolling) > MSIE-3.2 (Its not so beautiful with it, but its compatible) Did you validate the HTML yet? > There is a need to change the link allocation. > The current page work like a tree > FreeBSD.ORG --> 10 major choice of URL (3 are at the end of the page... > Getting FreeBSD, FreeBSD FAQ and Handbook. That stupid to put them there.) > -->All other link > > My page work like that: > FreeBSD.ORG --> All link (like that, no need to search for the Y2K bug: its > on the top) OK, now that I know what your objectives are I can take a proper look at it with that in mind. It seems like the main thing you wanted to do was to put links on the first page which lead to most of the other pages. That is a nice idea, and you've made a very good start on that part of it even though it's impossible for me to see it in its best light at the moment. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message