From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Aug 23 17:51:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13140 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 17:51:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13049; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 17:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA11983; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:19:42 +0930 (CST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA00504; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:12:39 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <19980822111239.61830@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:12:39 +0900 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD more secure than IRIX References: <199808211128.EAA11769@mailgate.cadence.com> <199808211543.JAA12023@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199808211543.JAA12023@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Fri, Aug 21, 1998 at 09:43:01AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 21 August 1998 at 9:43:01 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:27 PM 8/21/98 +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > >> In CNets headline story today, FreeBSD replaces comproimised IRIX >> servers at a Kentucky ISP! >> >> Whether the attack was the fault of the ISP's operating system >> remains an unanswered question. But Aye Net is not taking any >> chances. It has since replaced its operating system with FreeBSD, >> which is a version of Unix with strengthened security measures. >> >> http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,25526,00.html?st.ne.1.head > > For Heaven's sake someone warn them not to run QPopper. Why? Firstly, it wasn't a FreeBSD problem, and secondly it's been fixed. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Aug 23 18:01:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15361 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:01:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15340; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA12014; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:30:48 +0930 (CST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id JAA00521; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:49:23 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <19980824094921.07577@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:49:21 +0900 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD more secure than IRIX References: <199808211543.JAA12023@lariat.lariat.org> <199808211128.EAA11769@mailgate.cadence.com> <199808211543.JAA12023@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822111239.61830@papillon.lemis.com> <4.1.0.44.19980822092601.041f94e0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <4.1.0.44.19980822092601.041f94e0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 09:27:25AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 22 August 1998 at 9:27:25 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:12 AM 8/22/98 +0900, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> For Heaven's sake someone warn them not to run QPopper. >> >> Why? Firstly, it wasn't a FreeBSD problem, and secondly it's been >> fixed. > > Yes, but they switched before 2.2.7 came out. The old QPopper > was in the Ports Collection for 2.2.6. OK. But why should that be a reason to warn them not to use it? Tell it like it is. And in any case, we don't intend to give new users old versions. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Aug 23 19:56:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07071 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:56:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07063 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:56:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id TAA05355 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:56:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:56:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BSDi our friends??? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, I have been always told that BSDi are our friends. I don't intend to start "BSDi sucks" threat, but I am hoping someone here can help me out. See, 4.0 BSDi just came out and on their web page they have a little chart comparing BSDi to different OSes. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is one of them. The chart is at: http://www.bsdi.com/products/internet/40-qna Now lets analyze it: When BSDi say BIY (Build it yourself), to they realize that with packages you don't need to build anything? It is already there for you. Examples include POP3/IMAP servers, etc. Should be changed to "3rd". SSL2/SSL3: C2.net software runs just fine under FreeBSD, but BSDi doesn't mention there is 3rd party availability of that product. FrontPage server extensions: we run just fine with BSDi emulation. Should be changed to "3rd" Uptimes > 1 year: Now this section really pissed me off. Do they really think there is NOT A SINGLE FreeBSD box out there that never had a year or more of uptime? Geez.. so much for BSDi been our friends. Should be changed to "Std" or "Yes" IPv6: I though we have it in 3.0? Maybe not... Initial Free Phone support: Doesn't WC provide basic phone support? I might be wrong here however I am afraid also. eMail support: N/A. Yes, there is nobody ever on questions@freebsd.org to help people out. Should be changed to "Opt"? Update support: Gee now. Let us see: ftp, cvsup, cvs, patches.. Why does BSDi want to play dumb!??! Base product pricing: $49. This is not the OS price. OS is free damn it. This is the cost of 4 CDs. CDs aren't free you know. So, what do we do now? Should I send a nicer, kinder mail to someone within BSDi and point out their mistakes? -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Aug 24 05:21:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17802 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onizuka.tb.9715.org (onizuka.tb.9715.org [194.97.84.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA17793 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from torstenb@onizuka.tb.9715.org) Received: by onizuka.tb.9715.org via sendmail with stdio id for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:20:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:20:18 +0200 (CEST) From: torstenb@onizuka.tb.9715.org (Torsten Blum) To: jkb@best.com Subject: Re: BSDi our friends??? Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In freebsd-advocacy you wrote: >Uptimes > 1 year: Now this section really pissed me off. Do they really >think there is NOT A SINGLE FreeBSD box out there that never had a year or >more of uptime? Geez.. so much for BSDi been our friends. Should be >changed to "Std" or "Yes" crashme up 322+00:40, 0 users, load 1.64, 1.62, 1.54 sakarov up 311+00:14, 0 users, load 2.10, 2.38, 2.72 The first machine (crashme) had an uptime of more then 400 days when we moved to a new building one year ago ;-( (and is still running an old -current from January 1996 I heard that Rob Kolstad left BSDI recently... -tb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Aug 24 10:13:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29688 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:13:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29678 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:13:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.1 [OUT])) id KAA14454; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id KAA13591; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:11:41 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id LAA16265; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:11:39 -0600 Message-ID: <35E19ECB.4273B608@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:11:39 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jan B. Koum" CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDi our friends??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Hello all, > > I have been always told that BSDi are our friends. I don't intend > to start "BSDi sucks" threat, but I am hoping someone here can > help me out. See, 4.0 BSDi just came out and on their web page > they have a little chart comparing BSDi to different OSes. FreeBSD > 2.2.6 is one of them. The chart is at: > http://www.bsdi.com/products/internet/40-qna > Now lets analyze it: > > When BSDi say BIY (Build it yourself), to they realize that with packages > you don't need to build anything? It is already there for you. Examples > include POP3/IMAP servers, etc. Should be changed to "3rd". No, these should be "Std", as they are supplied with the distribution, you simply add them to the base package. The FreeBSD package tools are so simple even MCSE's can figure out how to use them. ;^) So, cruising down the list for what I know, we get: HTTP Proxy: Std HTTP accelerator: Std XML: 3rd (with Netscape 4.5, right?) Local Database: Std (take your pick of mSQL, MySQL, Postgres, etc) Remote Database: Std (mSQL has ODBC drivers, right?) FrontPage: 3rd (use BSDi emulation) POP3 Server: Std (qpopper, cucipop, imap-uw, cyrus) IMAP Server: Std (imap-uw, cyrus) IPsec, ISAKMP: are these in packages yet? Python: Std Radius Authentication: Std Kerberos: Std S*NM*P Tools: Std (ucd-snmp agent) Uptimes > 1 year: Std (see several "My FreeBSD lasts longer than yours" threads over the years for proof) IPv6: 3rd Initial free phone support: 30 (if purchased from Walnut Creek CD-ROM). E-Mail support: Std Update support: Std (via FreeBSD-announce, WC subscription, etc.) Patch Server: Std Pricing, Base Product: $0 Pricing, 16 user: $0 Return privilege: infinite (if purchased through Walnut Creek CD-ROM) Please note that if you install FreeBSD over the internet, you don't need to return the bits. ;^) > So, what do we do now? Should I send a nicer, kinder mail to > someone within BSDi and point out their mistakes? Send it straight to Rob, with a note that this comparison should at least be fair? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Aug 26 08:56:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22594 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:56:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22576; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA01997; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808261555.JAA01997@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:54:37 -0600 To: Greg Lehey , Gregory Sutter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Remark from Nick Petreley In-Reply-To: <19980826175544.H14420@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199808231441.IAA01078@lariat.lariat.org> <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <199808221921.NAA24991@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822135700.J924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808222241.QAA26221@lariat.lariat.org> <19980822162831.N924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808230107.TAA27100@lariat.lariat.org> <19980823041842.A924@notabene.zer0.org> <199808231441.IAA01078@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 05:55 PM 8/26/98 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >I don't like to make disagreements public, but in this case I think I >must. Brett, I tend to agree with Nicholas and Greg. Your messages >*do* portray the impression that you're a GNU or Linux basher, and I >haven't seen any humour in your messages. If that was the intention, >you obviously failed. On the whole (and after reviewing mail >exchanges with you over the last 6 months), I get the impression that >your messages on the Net are harming FreeBSD more than they are >helping. Thank you for you opinion. Personally, I think I've done a great deal to raise public awareness of the availability of FreeBSD as a stable, worthwhile alternative to Linux. In fact, I daresay that next to you and Jordan, I've probably had more of a positive effect on this than anyone else. >Over the course of the years, I have made a lot of money out of GPL >software. Like Greg Sutter, I have also released software under the >GPL, but that doesn't mean I will always do so. If you can't find a >way to make money out of the GPL (and assuming you want to), then >maybe that's the question you should be looking at. I don't understand why you would make that assumption. The fact is, I believe that the GPL is a bad idea because it eliminates opportunities for entrepreneurship. It deprives small innovators of the benefits of code re-use but does nothing to deter the progress of large corporations, which can afford to re-implement. I don't think RMS is the Antichrist, mind you. However, it is demonstrably true that his philosophy (and the GPL) are motivated by extreme political views, and that at some authors who publish under the GPL do not understand this agenda or understand the potential global consequences. >> I don't think that the GPL allows "freedom to use." It only allows "freedom >> to be a user." Big difference. > >I don't see one, but quite honestly, I don't care, either. This may be the biggest problem. The difference is important, and will be of increasing significance as time goes by. If people do not care, it will hurt everyone who develops software. >In summary: if you want to help FreeBSD, consider how other people see >you. I'm not asking you to change your opinions, just to keep quiet >at the right times :-) Again, I think I *have* helped FreeBSD and the *BSDs in general to gain the recognition they deserve. Even the knock-down, drag-out, online arguments help. I think you should engage in more of them. Even if you are perceived as a zealot (I've been branded as such even though I'm not), the platform becomes recognized as something which is worthy enough to *gather* zealots. And that is actually a compliment that convinces people to try the product. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message